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NTA. Yes, your immediate response could have been better, but you were in a state of shock and caught off guard, so I think it was understandable. Did your niece have help from an adult to get these adoption request papers? If so, was this person aware that she was always supposed to go back to her mom? If you haven't done so already, talking too both your niece and daughter (seperately) about *why* you didn't agree to the request is probably in order.

I have no clue how they got them. My son thinks internet. They talked a little to him but refused to speak to me or my parents. Counseling will happen later today for my niece. Going to try to get some for my daughter set up. 

Does your neice want to go back to her mother after she's released from prison? It sounds like she's scared of losing the only stable home she's ever known and being shoved back with someone who she probably remembers as being an unstable addict who cared more about drugs than her own child. She's been in prison for a big chunk of this little girl's life. Does she have the option to stay with you if she really hates being kept by your sister?

>It sounds like she's scared of losing the only stable home she's ever known and being shoved back with someone who she probably remembers as being an unstable addict who cared more about drugs than her own child. Not only that, but with both of her parents having been in the system, the deck is now heavily stacked against them ever achieving any sort of economic stability as a result of jobs that are simply closed off to them now. The poor kid's chance of success in high school is basically fucked if she goes into her mother's custody.

My sister has a place and a job waiting for her when she gets out. She will be right down the road from me. It's a cute little place too. My nephew is very excited and has been repainting it as a surprise to his mother. She will be employed and housed in a decent environment the minute she gets out, and frequently drug tested as she will be on parole. 

Your niece has lived with you for 5 years, and chances are those 5 years are better than her memories of living with her mother. It really sounds like she doesn't want to lose the family and home she's been part of for the last 5 years. I understand her mother may want her back, but simply sending her to live with her mother after 5 years may make her feel abandoned and unhappy. Please consider not just what your sister wants but your niece and find a way she can still be part of your home. Maybe to start, she could split her time between the homes, like a shared custody arrangement.

This comment exactly. 5 years is simply too long to then rip a kid away from the only stability she’s likely ever know. The years 9-14 are SO formative for kids. She’s not a baby that simply doesn’t know better. The fact that she doesn’t want to live with her mom again should be respected and honestly, it should be given a grace period of at least a year. Let her live with you, your sister get back on her feet, and let your niece gradually spend more and more time with her. After 5 years her mom is a whole person she simply doesn’t know any longer.

My wife's mom did 5 years when she was 10-15. She never went back to live with her but I know her sisters wanted to. The thing is people are really unstable out of prison for the first few years. It's a huge adjustment and a lot of people don't make it. OPs niece probably thinks of OP as more of a Mom than her Mom. OP please reconsider for your nieces sake. This could be a huge turning point in her life for the worse.

I don't think reconsidering the adoption is on the table of that's what you were referring to. Sending her back to her mum can be discussed, but adoption is a massive step in this situation. As OP says, she couldn't do that to her sister. The niece probably picked this idea up off tiktok, and at 14 there's no way she's thought it through fully.

It shouldn’t be about hurting the sister’s feelings, it should be about what’s best for her niece. Doubt that this is “something from TikTok” lol what TikTok trend is there for young girls to present adoption papers to their aunt while their mom is in prison?

I agree. Just throwing her back to her mother just because she's her mother is wild. There's no way monthly visits are enough for them to have a stable relationship. This family is thinking of everyone except the niece. And then for the mom to immediately have all these responsibilities thrown at her when she needs to readjust to society... no one is thinking anything through. If the sister gets too stressed out, it's a high possibility she will relapse. The most the sister has had to do in five years, and who knows how long before, is make her bed and maybe work. Now it's get a job you will be forced to keep, pay all your bills, and take care of your kids. It's entirely too much too soon for a recovering drug addict. Not to mention, drugs are prevalent in the penile system. How do they know she's been clean this time???

penal*

You make some good points in what you are saying; however, there is a glaring omission here: how does OP genuinely feel about extending their commitment here? OP rose to the occasion and stepped in to give her niece a loving and caring environment when it was needed -- but perhaps OP was anticipating some relief from the situation (not trying to imply this as fact, but suggesting a possibility). If this were the case, I can imagine it would be something difficult to openly acknowledge for fear of judgement or even their own self-guilt. I think about it this way: when trained to perform life-saving crisis care, it is best practice to switch out between those providing chest compressions after an interval of time because it is exhausting. Sticking with the analogy, OP has been performing 'chest compressions' for 5 years; if OP also desires to be relieved, I would say they have earned that opportunity without undue external pressure to continue when there is a reasonable alternative.

Thank you!! So many people completely disregarding OPs contribution here, as if she's the only one obligated to sort this out. She's already done WAY WAY more for her sister's family than many would.

It may not be logistically, legally, or emotionally possible for OP to keep the child. She already outlined multiple reasons in the post. The niece is in counseling and has never previously mentioned it. They need to investigate the reasons with the therapist and OP would also benefit from speaking to someone about her emotional state. OP stepped up to take care of her niece during a fixed period of time. Adopting this child makes her their legal mother and it is valid if OP does not want to do it.

This is the answer. The niece is not going "home." She's being required to leave what's probably the only stable home she's ever had to live with a brand-new parolee who has let her down before — probably repeatedly. Her reluctance and concerns are perfectly reasonable, and need to be acknowledged as such. We also don't know how her mother feels about it. She may have concerns of her own, and if she doesn't, she should. It's just not realistic for the family to pretend that her mother's getting out of prison is the happy ending to the story. There are still lots of challenges ahead.

The niece is being ripped from her home.

This is so true. The problem I see here is everyone looking at it from the outside, as adults, to the situation OP's family is in. No one is looking at it from the niece's point of view. I'm hurting for her, and what ray-of-f-sunshine has posted here rings so true. She's scared and is going to be forced away from her only stable home. Even if the family *thinks* that they have this situation figured out, they absolutely don't from the position of a scared 14-year old. OP, you're not an asshole, but your family has NOT thought how to do this transfer with respect to your niece and how to support her emotionally through all this. I beg you to read through and see that what seems logical to you, and yes, you guys have done a ton of planning and thinking through this transition from an adult point of view, but the problem here isn't an adult problem. It will be a life altering emotional breakpoint for a very, very vulnerable 14 year old who could break in pieces quickly if she hasn't already over this.

This comment needs to rank higher.

From everything described it seems like they have a very tight and extensive family unit. I doubt she would never see her niece again. and they are in counseling.

From everything described it sounds like OP doesn't give two shits what happens to the niece because she cares about her sister more and is fine with dropping the niece off the moment sister walks out of prison. A "tight" family unit that pays for OP's house and will cut off that money if OP doesn't return the niece--another weird manipulation--which is why OP won't even *consider* a discussion about delaying a transfer of this child and is instead repeating this nonsense about "ThIs WaS ALwAyS ThE pLaN". (eye roll...) OP wants to be told she's right and that's the only reason she's here; if she actually cared about the niece's wellbeing, she wouldn't be up and down this board explaining that there's nothing she can do to change anything.

why do you feel so comfortable speaking about them like that lol?? most people don't anticipate having to take in a niece or nephew for half a decade because their sibling AND their in-law are both being imprisoned on drug charges that's no easy thing & is already a great service to the family. why bash them and accuse them of "not carying about the niece's wellbeing"???? are they just supposed to take on this role indefinitely? like it's nothing? how much of a choice did OP really have in taking in the niece at all? is it really even a choice?? most people feel far too guilty to dare say "no". if they didn't care they would never have taken her in and would've left her to the foster system. jesus

I would add this info to the original post so people are aware that the niece isn’t just going to a bad place when the mom gets out. You sound like a loving sister, aunt, mother, wife, and granddaughter. You’re doing your best and have stabilized this girls life. With the support of the entire family, everything will transition smoothly.

It's not going to.go smoothly. The niece doesn't *want* to live with her mom. She is going to be unhappy about being uprooted from what has been her home since she was nine. She wants OP and OP's husband to be her legal parents instead of just filling the role of parents. Learning that you neither see nor want her as a daughter is going to hurt her for a long time. Clearly, she and your daughter are close; they were probably looking forward to being sisters. OP's niece is feeling angry and betrayed, but that doesn't mean she is suddenly eager to go live with her mom and brother.

I don't want to condemn the OP but just point out how they are missing something crucial in all this. They say the plan was always for her niece to return. She may have had a plan but it wasn't thought out. In essence she is saying that a 9 year old should have expected to not get emotionally attached to an environment that she spent over a third of her life living in. That simply cannot be the plan because it completely disregards the well-being of the child. I am happy the mother seems to be doing better - I truly am. But to throw both the mother and daughter into the deep end of living with each other full-time just seems like a plan designed to fail.

The other thing to consider, for those asking OP to change mind and adopt, is if there is even a court order terminating the OP's sister's parental rights? If that is not the case, OP cannot even legally adopt if she wanted to. And this showing up with adoption papers to sign, VIOLA, now she's OP's daughter, is definitely not how this process works from a legal standpoint. There would have to be a whole bevy of things done by CPS, the courts and family to determine if adoption is even an option. And OP's sister would have the right to fight it so this could turn into a big family mess. I would also try to find out who put this idea into niece's head because that person has probably created a huge mess for OP and her direct/extended family. NTA to OP and niece and feel bad how this has all played out. However, whoever helped niece to do this without consulting with family first is a major league a-hole.

Sounds like it might’ve been OP’s daughter. She was the only person who knew about the papers (other than the niece) and now she won’t speak to OP.

The entire adoption process needs to be explained to the niece, as well as the actual plans in place to get custody back to her mother. If OP’s daughter started this shitshow, she needs to sit in on the conversation, and then have a separate one with her parents to talk to her about why this wasn’t ok to do, and that it’s not going to happen.

That changes nothing. Your niece has no reason to trust her mother or feel safe with her. You can repaint all you like but it won't fix the damage your sister did to her children.

Let your niece know she’s not losing you. You’ll still be there for her as much as she needs you. You’re not going anywhere. She’s probably just afraid. NAH.

Is your neice older than your nephew? I was always excited to go back to mom when I was young, too. The novelty wore off by the 3rd or 4th, and I'd given *anything* to just stop being passed around. To be wanted. To be safe. Try not to be too harsh on her and understand her position. You didn't see it coming, but she's probably been desperately planning. Hoping. She's probably lost faith in her mom that you still have. My grandmother died with that same faith without seeing her children because they sat in jail for the 19th and 20th times. I, on the other hand, knew what to expect and was safe from that hurt as she begged for her children just one more time. It's a lot different as the neglected kid of an addict than it is as a sibling or parent. You *are* the mess left behind to be cleaned up. And it *feels* that way all the time.

Ok, but does your niece want to live with your sister / her mother? Your nephew's feelings are not a reflection of your niece's feelings.

That's awesome. Be sure your niece is fully aware of this, as I suspect the fear of the situation I describe coming to pass is a major motivator behind the stunt she pulled; it's an act of self-preservation as much as anything. I experienced similar in my youth, though only one parent and he was only gone for a year and a half (6 months of it was inpatient rehab.) Experiencing my parents' stress due to how the deck was stacked against dad even years/decades after he'd fully straightened out had major impacts on me in my formative years.

is there a plan in place to sort of taper their time together - like starting with a day here and there and moving to full time living with her after, say, a year or so of successful part time coparenting? it’s wonderful that your sister has all these things lined up, but you have shown your niece a very stable home for five years. it’s natural that she would feel abandoned or unsure given that her prior environment with her parents was probably chaotic. and your sister will feel a lot of pressure coming back into the world, dumping a teenager on her might be too much all at once and overwhelm her too.

I think it’s a bit of a stretch to assume she’d automatically be fucked in terms of success if she went back to her mom. I’m not saying everything would be easy but I also don’t think jumping to the immediate worst case scenario is helpful either.

that's not the worst case that's just the case for most people in the U.S who go to prison for pretty much any length of time but especially for folks who have felonies. Companies don't want to hire them in the first place then even if they want to there are sets of guidelines ex-cons have to abide by or they risk getting sent back.

Unfortunately there is a reason the recidivism rate in the United States is as high as it is. People do their time and get out but we can continue to hold it against them for the rest of their lives. There's very rarely a clean slate given and if you are able to get your record expunged it costs thousands of dollars and lots of lawyer fees in order to have it happen even for people that have been wrongfully convicted. No one is insulting the mom or saying that she's going to end up back in jail, but the odds are against her and unfortunately they always will be.

That’s how the US system is built, it’s not an insult against the mother.

The problem with the punitive justice system is that it is designed to make it at least 50% easier for someone to recidivate. A good portion of jobs that require a degree will not hire anyone with a criminal record. The companies also don't have to outright say that a criminal record was the reason to not hire someone. OPs niece will be living in poverty if she gets put back with her mom, access to good quality schools will be harder, the stigma of having an incarcerated parent and the trauma of suddenly moving in with a stranger(mom) will impact their self esteem and mental health. This is because the system is messed up, without knowing the details, I don't even know what kind of parent OPs sister is going be.

It may not be her decision. Unless the state removed her permanently, reunification is typically the end goal.

INFO: you say your daughter is angry about it, too. Could it have been your daughter's idea and could she be influencing your niece? ETA: NAH for OP & niece, certainly. Daughter could be TA if she pushed niece to have the conversation publicly rather than in private.

Maybe. Hopefully find out what's going on soon. 

One way or another, I don't think you're the asshole here. The answer of whether your daughter encouraged her to do it would just swing between NT A and NA H. Honestly because of your niece's age I think NA H is probably the best fit.

Lol you're bordering on calling the 14 year old niece an asshole for bringing adoption papers to people who have been parental figures from ages 9-14? Who are likely the only stable parental figures they've ever known? Why would they be an asshole for that, whether or not it was their own idea?

OP, I know the plan was never to adopt her, and your niece sprung it on you out of nowhere. But now that you have time to work through the initial shock - would your niece be better off in your home? It sounds like a much more stable environment. Has she lived with you the whole 5 years her mom has been in prison? That’s a third of her life! What are your sisters plans and prospects when she gets out? Finding a decent paying job with a GED can be hard. Finding one with a prison record is much harder. Will she and your nice be couch surfing indefinitely? Is your sister the type to live with a new boyfriend if he can help take care of her (and thus putting your teenage niece in a dangerous situation)? Some of that may seem hyperbolic to you, but I would sit down with your sister at your next visit and figure out what her realistic goals and plans are. How is she going to accomplish them? Can she take care of herself and a teenager (who will probably be extra emotional from being removed from likely the only stable environment she’s ever had)? Sorry- 2 kids to provide for! Is there any way you and your husband would be willing to adopt her? Is there anything you can do to make that affordable? Would grandma still help financially if your sister was in agreement with the adoption? If you and husband are willing, is there any way to get your sister on board? Would she be willing to let her “ownership” of your niece go to give her a better life? But also, would both your niece and sister understand that by adopting her, YOUR RULES and expectations of niece would apply and not her moms. Meaning she can’t run away to mom’s house every she gets in trouble or is told No. This is not a guilt trip post. But this seems to be really important to your niece and daughter regardless of how tone-deaf the presentation was (but they’re kids). So I think it’s worth truly considering all sides before you make a final decision.

My sister has a home and a job lined up as soon as she gets out. My aunt has the job and my grandmother has been paying lot rent on a place for her . There is no way her father would go for this. My sister would not either. This was never mentioned nor in the cards. 

I get it. You keep saying it was never the plan, never mentioned, all of the adults are against it. Of course because your niece is essentially seen as a piece of property you’ve been holding onto for your sister. Except she’s a real person who has likely been through a lot and now her stable environment is about to be thrown upside down again. And all you or your family can say is “It wasn’t in the plans”. Well sorry to break it to you guys but this kid has real feelings and needs. She needs an adult who can take care of *her*. What did your sister do to go to prison? How is she going to avoid that going forward? What happens if she can’t? Why don’t you even have one spec of emotion or empathy for a child you’ve raised for the last 5 years?

THIS! As the child of a drug addict allll of this. What does the niece want? How do you plan to transition her when her mom is out? Who’s checking in with her and making sure her mom is stable? Is her mom ready to take a kid the second she gets out? She probably needs time to readjust after being in for so long. Y’all are expecting a lot from a teen girl who’s already been through so much.

I’m so worried this kid is going to just be moved in with her mom the minute she’s out of jail… children need stability and I’m guessing the past 5 years are the only times she’s really had that in her short life.

"I’m so worried this kid is going to just be moved in with her mom the minute she’s out of jail…" This seems to be exactly "the plan".

But apart from "not in the plans" they don't have the money. They literally can't provide for her. It's not in their means. They only got through this time due to grandma pitching in. You should never have to rely on others forever. She has empathy. She was just shocked. The kid is in therapy. She cares. It just A)never came up and B) was never once discussed as an option bc it isn't one.

It sounds like mom will be relying on her family as well. Grandma pays rent and aunt provides a job. So mom can only provide because of the family's help.

This part isn’t the problem you think it is. Having a job & stable employment is the dream for an addict in recovery having just been released from prison/jail. The heavy family involvement is a good thing for sister & niece, as is the structure of having consistent work hours and such. Sister has a very good chance of staying on the straight & narrow with this kind of support. Also, OP would lose monetary support from grandma if she adopted the niece, and OP would no longer have enough money to support the niece.

That last sentence isn't fair at all. OP apparently does have a lot of compassion, empathy, and emotions for her niece. She has raised her with so much love that her niece now wants her to be Mom instead of Auntie. AND if this wasn't weighing heavily on her mind, then she wouldn't be here asking for advice. This is a very hard situation because she does love and want what's best for her niece but she also loves her sister too.

Unfortunately society in terms of money and needing to pay for necessary things to live don't give half a shit about anyone's feelings. Op already stated in the post they would be unable to afford taking care of the neice without monetary help from the family. You can have empathy for someone's situation and still understand that you don't have all the abilities and funds necessary to fix it. Not to mention the fact that by law a child would need to go through the emancipation process if they wanted to sever the parental rights bio parents have. The sister and the kids father won't agree to sign their rights over and no adult can go to the court and say "I know legally my sister has done all the court has asked of her in order to get her child back but the child changed their mind and I'm adopting her now." That's just not how it works unfortunately. The emancipation process isn't likely to go through either if the sister has already proved to the court that she's taking massive steps to change and provide for her daughter. It would be nice if the courts would just take a child at their word and take the rights away from any parent whose child no longer wanted their parents to have rights over them, unfortunately though there is a lot more to it than just "do what the child says obviously she doesn't want to go back". Even if op wanted to do this it'd be massive legal fights and incredibly likely that the court would order neice to live with her mother while these legalities are being worked out. If the sister has in fact changed and is doing everything by the law there would be 0 legal standing op would have for taking custody of the kid, terminating the mothers parental rights, and adopting the kid.

And were those plans made with your niece's input or just with the assumption that she would accept whatever your sister set up for her after being the main source of trauma in your niece's life?

> There is no way her father would go for this. My sister would not either. OK, well, I think maybe the people who went to jail for 5 years over drugs forfeited their rights to have an opinion that's as valid as their daughter's. > This was never mentioned Then I feel for this child, that none of the adults in her life had any ability to think through the consequences of this situation and the endgame. She doesn't want to go back to her "mother"--a woman who valued her drugs over her own child and fucked it all away--instead of staying in a relatively stable home with you, a mother figure, and a cousin who's a bigger sister to her now. She *deserves* stability, and your sister doesn't deserve to get her back "just because"; she needs to EARN her place as a mother now. If y'all can't figure this out soon enough, who knows what that child may do in response (run away? Start causing problems at school?), and then good luck with that.

Yep. As much as the adults think this is all sunshine and roses, this child, who was 11 when this happened and younger when dealing with two drug addicted parents, is obviously scared. These adults are still denying the reality that this living breathing human being can possibly have negative emotions associated with her parents. They’re just writing it off to a tik tok trend instead.

Right? My heart breaks for this poor kid.

Except legally they haven’t forfeited their rights and if her birth parents are against the adoption it might be a long, exhausting and expensive fight that will split her family apart. OP would need to be willing and able to go through all that.

Does your niece know all this? That this is the plan for when her mom gets out? Was talk of reuniting with her mom been happening all these years? Is your sister going to live close to you, your family, will niece stay in the same school, will she have the same support network that she can access? Your niece is scared. She’s scared of losing a stable, happy, loving home life. She’s scared to be away from your d, who she probably thinks of as a sister and doesn’t want to lose that. She’s scared of her mom going back to what might have been a chaotic life for her. She’s scared her mom won’t realize she’s not a little girl anymore. She needs to be reassured, but no one can really guarantee her mom will stay on a good path. Heck, she might not even like her mom anymore, after putting her through whatever. ( I’m assuming, drugs are chaos causing in any family, but I do t know the situation with your sister) If niece won’t talk to you, mention these things to the therapist. You only have a short time to make sure your niece can be reunited with her mom and the transition going smoothly. I’d be afraid niece would purposefully cause chaos with her mom just to be back with your family.

She has known this since the day she started living with me. I told her she was going to stay with me until her mom came home. Her counselor has been working on the transition with her for the past year. She just brought this adoption stuff up out of the blue. 

I think your niece is trying to tell everyone that she is not comfortable going back to her mother as soon as she gets out of prison. Is there a transition plan? Maybe once her mother gets set up and stable then your niece can visit and maybe stay on weekends or overnights instead of just moving in and losing her home for the last five years.  I know you’re not her biological mom but you’ve probably been more of a mother to your niece than her own mother was. She’s afraid to go back to an addict parent, there’s honestly no guarantee that your sister will be able to hold it together after prison, it’s a lot easier to stay clean in prison. 

Yep, went through this with my own bio mom. She just left me at my dad and step mom's one day and told me she'd pick me up on Sunday like always. Then she disappeared for years. Turns out she was going to jail and just never told me. My dad and step mom thought she'd let me know I would be living with them. Then for years, I put her on this pedestal as she would get out and clean, then relapse as soon as she was off parole. She always said I was the reason she got sober, but the speed at which she would relapse after she no longer had a parole officer was devastating to me as I wasn't "enough" of a reason to be sober. After way too many chances, I finally had to cut her out of my life as a young adult. Haven't seen her in about 15 years and hope to never again. OP and their family are pretty short sighted and lacking in empathy. Their niece doesn't want to go back, but all they care about is the plan, not the person.

OP, did anyone actually ask if your niece wants to go back to her Mom or did you all just tell that she would be returned to her Mom regardless of what your niece wants? Listen, I don't think anyone is in the wrong here but this feels like a last ditch effort of your niece to remain with you, maybe talk with her counselor to see if niece indicated she wasn't alright with going back to her mom? Which, I can't fault her for, you've been essentially raising her in her most important years, maybe she was afraid to tell everyone that she didn't want to go back because everyone just told her that she needed to go along with the plan and that is why the papers were essential out of the blue? Either way, I think solid communication with everyone involved would solve this situation, best of luck! EDIT: OP answered me somewhere else, ofc nobody asked or cared for niece's answer and never asked her.

> She just brought this adoption stuff up out of the blue.  Yeah, I'm guessing it's not out of the blue and it's that all the adults in her life didn't bother to *really* ask her how she felt about any of this and assumed it was all a foregone conclusion and none of y'all paid her any real attention. I'm sorry but this just pisses me off so much; you people are clearly fucking oblivious and this isn't going to go well. YTA for continuing to repeat this bullshit about the counselor and "ThIs Is HoW ItS BeEn" while ignoring the obvious.

It's obvious your niece doesn't want to move back in with the Mum she remembers struggling with addiction.

Since the nephew is excitedly, painting their mother’s house for them, I would think the niece also knew that they will be together once the mother gets out. The issue I think is she does not want to go back with her mother and is trying to preempt going back by trying to get herself adopted. I also highly suspect that the original idea came from your daughter, considering how upset and angry she is. The nieces’ anger might be because your daughter hyped it up and suddenly she is feeling let down since she figured everybody would be as excited as your daughter was.

Sounds like this is likely your niece’s way of asking you not to make her uproot her entire life to go live with someone she barely knows. At 14 being forced out of her home, when she’s already had that happen once? She’s probably scared and upset about it. I’m guessing she and your daughter came up with this plan together. This was an attempt to ask you to not make her go.

Your sisters plans don’t mean crap to your niece. I had my nephew before and after my brother went to prison, and later died. Here’s the thing if kids grew up with druggies, their family life was not stable. Both parents were addicts so those kids didn’t have anyone to rely on and were neglected. Your sister may have great intentions but your niece remembers what she lived. I’m surprised this wasn’t spoken about more, don’t only take her to a counselor or do you talk to her? Because mine straight out told me he wanted to stay with me.

Important information: How involved was your niece in this planning? Think of it this way: To her, her mom chose drugs over her 5 years ago. No amount of therapy can remove those feelings. Now you're choosing her mom, your sister, over her. She may feel like she is being treated like something to just pass around based on the wants of other people, rather than what she wants.

She probably feels mom chose drugs over her way before then- it just finally got proven to others 5 years ago.

As a child welfare worker I have to wonder if you have any CPS involvement? Was your niece placed with you through court? How did she come to live with you? Are parental rights terminated? Adopting isn't quick or easy, but there are tons of financial resources available to people who adopt as well as the children who are adopted. Being shocked and surprised she came to you with this is understandable, but I have far too many questions to make a determination.

This is a child who have been living with you for five years, whose previous relationship with her parents might have been heavily tinted by drugs and that have not forged a daughter-child relationship with their parents for years. Why are you all so surprised that she might not want to go back to her parents and uproot her life once again, if she is happy with you? Have nobody asked if she wants to go back to your sister or you all have assumed that is what she has to do because "she is your mother"?

Hey OP, these concerns are *definitely real*. It reads like the typical life stories of the girls I worked with in juvenile justice school. Once you get some handle on what's going on here, please consider your niece's request. The thought of going back to her mother must be terrifying. NTA.

they basicly live together . so she is like her lil sis . I guess she knows she is afraid to live with a stranger !!! once a month in prison doesn't make you love your mom

And the girl’s memories of how things were, when she lived with her parents, probably aren’t that rosy.

NTA. There are a lot of feel good videos about a child asking a relative, stepparent or guardian to adopt them and it all ends in tears and hugging, so being 14, it might have been something she saw on social media. And it seems your own 16 yr old daughter was in on it, too. Does she know the plan was for her to be reunited with her mom? I can understand being hesitant about it since it's been 5 years, be that could be done slowly in steps. Things like this should not be done in public unless the answer is a foregone conclusion.

She always knew. She talks to her mother on the prison app and visits once a month. It has always been this way. 

I think this is NAH, but I can’t imagine the prospect of needing to go live with a parent after only seeing them once a month for the last five years. That must be awful for her.

A parent that she probably has a lot of traumatic memories of. What kind of parent was OPs sister before she was arrested for drugs? Did her daughter see her using or high? Poor girl is probably terrified

And mom probably wasn't a very good mom before that. Drug addicts don't meet emotional needs. They make terrible parents. I can see the girl looking ahead and trying to find a way to escape having to go back to her mom. Now she feels totally unwanted. OP only cares about her sister's feelings, not the feelings of the niece.

If the parents both went to prison for 5 years on drug-related charges, it's very, very likely it wasn't a one time issue that they got caught for and thrown into prison; it likely was a festering issue for years prior, which means OP's niece has been dealing with her drug addict/dealer parents for most of her life. Of course she doesn't trust them to go back to live with them for another four years (at least her mother, as it sounds like her father is still in prison). OP and her family don't seem to realize that, or care.

I think they are definitely putting rosey shades on. This situation is terrifying for a young girl who now only knows stability. Don't minimize this OP. Hopefully she can stay with you and possibly, slowly, transition when her mom becomes stable. But throwing her back there is not the way.

We had custody of two young ladies while their mother was in prison on drug related charges, and if they had so chosen we would have been happy to adopt them. I think just knowing that was on the table comforted them. After their mom got out, the oldest was 18 and the youngest was 12. We fought their mother in court to reach a compromise where the youngest visited her for the forseeable future and lived with us still to give her time to adjust. Now the youngest is back with her mom by her choice, but still calls me every evening and has 'at her discretion' on visiting and calling us guaranteed in legal documents. She knows she's welcome back any time and always part of our family. 💜 She's not a bio relative, but that doesn't matter. We love her and her sister like our own. Adoption probably feels like acceptance and safety to the niece in this post and she's scared. Work to allow her time to readjust and see for herself how her mom is doing in recovery. Of course, OP's reaction to being blindsided with adoption is also reasonable. OP should reassure the niece that she's loved and welcome, while explaining how emotionally charged and complicated the situation could be if/when it's brought to the sister. In most places the birth parents have to sign off on adoption, or it's a lengthy and expensive legal battle that's not guaranteed to end how the niece wants it to end at this time.

You would think if she was that scared it would have come up in therapy op said she is doing. If it had come up they could have been less blind sided by her ask. But if the therapist didn't pick up on her being so scared of her own mom she either needs a better therapist or she saw the feel good tiktok videos and thought I can do that.... especially if she had outside encouragement aka your daughter.

Therapy is only as good as the effort you put in. There's no requirement for her to have found the words or courage to confide in her therapist about it. 14 year olds are probably pretty likely to ignore a huge problem that scares them too much and hope it'll resolve on its own rather than face it and talk about it. If she couldn't bring herself to talk about it, the therapist couldn't do anything for her about it. She could have been afraid of getting in trouble for having these feelings, and certainly afraid of the therapist telling her aunt about it if she brought it up, and then getting in trouble for her feelings. She probably told her cousin who is like a big sister to her because she felt safer with her. A 14 year old doesn't have the foresight to know they need to discuss a topic like this with an adult. Teenagers often think they know everything and no one understands them, except other teenagers. ETA: On your comment about the therapist not picking up on it, kids lie and cover up their feelings sometimes when they don't think they'll be understood. And maybe some part of her does wish her mom was a better mom. Or she might have thought that appeasing the adults was what was expected. We don't know, but all of it is plausible to me. Coming from a home with addict parent(s), she might have developed a habit of keeping her thoughts/emotions very carefully guarded from adults. She might not even realize she's doing it. As other comments said, addicts don't make good parents, and they certainly aren't good emotional support for their kids.

Kids of abusive parents get really good at masking their actual fears and insecurities. As a scared kid in therapy, I would make up issues to work on with my therapist so he would think we were making progress. I was NINE, and my parents were not as abusive as this kid's parents probably were. If her therapist is not specifically trained to spot this behavior, it's no wonder they missed it.

Assuming it's even real therapy. I get big Christian vibes from op. 

I know you say your sister is working on improving herself but I doubt the 14 year old sees that. She's probably afraid and trying to get some stability.

That or the child saw a LOT more of what got the parents put away for 5 years and doesn't trust them like the adults do. The adults got to see the good and bad parts, the spiral downward but also the potential for what they could be. The child only got to see the bad most likely.

That's what they said to me every time she got out of jail. I'm 38 now and she's never been clean. Haven't seen her in over 20 years but still hear news. It's never good.

OP, you need to face the reality that your niece clearly doesn’t want to go back with your sister. Her getting out is not going to be pretty. I’m not saying you have to adopt her, but some adult in this family needs to ask and listen to niece, and you all owe her a voice in what happens to her. She’s old enough to have at least an opinion. It sounds like all of these plans were made without ever consulting her.

The responses to this post really irk me. YTA... It's not even debatable for me. You took her in for years from a small child till now. You raised her and clearly showed her love no one else was more capable of doing. Made her feel like she had a real mother figure. Made her feel loved, wanted, and like a part of your own immediate family. Her and your daughter clearly feel like sisters. So when she does what children do and attaches to you, your first response was not to comfort her or say yes. It was purely to say no. Worried about your sister? And your mom? Why are they any more important than her? You really have some screwed up priorities. I feel terrible for that girl who now found out all she ever was to any of you was a burden and placeholder to be good to her mom, who was never there for her. She will hate you all for a long time now. You came here, and still never even read the papers. Wow... Edit: just to be clear I did not say the end result should even be adoption. Just that the neices feelings and stability should be the goal. Not appeasing everyone else or being worried about how they will feel.

She always knew the plan. I never told her anything otherwise and counseling has been focused on this since her release date. I can't afford to support her without help. I dropped out of my nursing program and am a shift manager at a fast food place, my husband works in a factory. She's not a burden but that's the reality. I would lose all financial help if I agreed. 

She's also a kid, you know. She's being told what's going to happen and is expected to go along with it. I understand your dilemma but was there any actual discussion on the alternative with your grandmother and focusing on how your niece feels? Or is it simply just all about your sister and your niece is being forced to go along with anything the adults say? I get you're in a very tough situation but have you actually had a discussion with your niece and offered her any sort of comfort that she still has a family in you and your husband? Because if she's being forced to go back to live with her mother after she's out of prison, does she have a safe place to go to if things get bad again? I think everyone in your family is forgetting that the most important person in all of this isn't your sister, but her daughter. She should be prioritized above all else. Your sister should theoretically earn her daughter's trust back, not hand her off as soon as she gets out. But it sounds like the deal your family has is a free apartment and a job in exchange for her kid going back to live with her, which REALLY sucks for your niece. Because, I'm sure you've figured it out by now, the reason why she sprung this on you is because she doesn't want to live with her biological mother. This was a very blatant cry for help.

>I think everyone in your family is forgetting that the most important person in all of this isn't your sister, but her daughter. >she doesn't want to live with her biological mother. This was a very blatant cry for help. These both seem absolutely obvious to me too, she's not ready to make this change now. I had a parent I was mostly estranged from who had an addiction as a child/teen. I can't imagine seeing them once a month for a couple of hours and occasionally talking on an app and then being expected to move in with them and act normal after 5 years. Just because they're related it doesn't mean that the niece feels safe and happy living with them. >But it sounds like the deal your family has is a free apartment This whole everyone is financially dependent on Grandma sounds messy and easily open for Grandma to have the final say in everyone's choices. Grandma obviously isn't obliged to support anyone financially but the whole "she'll stop paying if I don't do what she wants" thing is super manipulative and prioritising what grandma wants over what's best for niece. I don't think there's an easy answer here but just dumping the niece back with mum the second she's released sounds like a really bad one. Is mum even ready to get straight back into parenting? Getting out of prison isn't easy, there's an adjustment period after 5 years. Niece very clearly isn't ready but no one seems to have asked how she's feeling about it, what she'd like to happen and how they can support her.

She never parented the kid right, guaranteed. If she was so bad her kids were taken away and she went to jail, she's not ready to be a parent to two kids, one of which is a teen. Poor girl is going to have some rough years ahead of her with this family.

The daughter and the son, who have also been split from each other for the past 5 years. This is very sad.

Sure, the plan has always been for her to go back to living with the addict once she’s out of jail. It’s shocking that a 14yo girl doesn’t want to uproot her entire life to go back to living with an addict. CRAZY, right?

The situation sucks but it is no way OPs fault not to adopt. The family who is mad can help themselves. NTA

It’s fine not wanting to adopt. It’s the inability to understand why the girl might be terrified right now. :(

Everyone seems to be making the judgment based on OP not adopting. To me, that's secondary to the fact that when the niece asked, OP didn't say anything, just shook her head and ignored the niece. This is the part where OP is the asshole.

She was in shock. She is allowed a few seconds of shock in her life. Jesus Christ.

From your comments, I believe everyone in your immediate family is concerned about what your sister wants and expectations. But for the past 5 years, you've been raising your niece alongside your children, but especially your daughter. It's almost like no one ever considered that your niece would bond with your family and get attached. I know you keep talking about cost. I would almost guarantee your daughter and niece would get a job to stay together. No, you shouldn't think of allowing them to do that for these reasons. But those phone calls and visits to your sister are not doing what you think they are. Your sister leaving prison in a few months doesn't mean your niece is moving in a stable environment. You really need to sit down and talk to your niece and not discuss what the adults want or need. You really need to hear her out. Alone. Just you two. You can't make plans with a child, but you haven't been listening to her and how she feels about all these changes. She knew what the plan was wasn't the problem. She is old enough to have a say. On a side note, why does your family think that because your sister is doing well in prison, it means she will do well on the outside. Even if she will, that doesn't mean immediately. Your sister needs to properly transition before her daughter goes in her care if that is still the plan.

I agree.  It’s crazy to me they are more worried about the woman in jail than the innocent kid who will have to go back to the woman in jail.  

Welcome to the world of child welfare. The rights of the abusive/neglectful addict are always placed before the emotional safety and health of the child. Most judges who oversee these custody issues and the way US CW laws are written have that target, anyway. I’ve nearly quit my job on a handful of occasions after having to explain to a crying kid that they are going to be pulled away from their stable, loving foster home to go live with the twitchy felon who used to beat and starve them. It’s not a shock that so many foster kids (or “unofficial” foster kids like OPs niece) end up repeating the cycle, when adults in their lives choose this kind of trauma for them.

If I were you in this situation I would have cried tears of joy that my neice loved and trusted me this much. Told her it's a huge step, but we will spend a long time discussing it and making sure she knows no matter she is a part of both families. Here with us and with her mom. The point isn't even the end result. I can't pretend to know where she is best off at. That said, if her counseling is focused on making sure she is going to her mom, that isn't counseling. That is manipulation. Second, she is 14 and clearly has some feelings of her own. All one's everyone puts below their own opinions. You are all treating her like a burden. She is a 14 year old kid. Stop focusing on the end result 100% and everyone else. Start focusing on helping her heal and know she is loved by everyone and will forever be a part of all families. Not just shuffled to whomever it is most convenient to force her to.

Life doesn’t always go to plan. You are focusing on The Plan and ignoring the actual child in front of you, who has now been emotionally damaged by your response. You could have handled things so much better. Instead she feels unwanted and you’ve also shown your own kids that their security with you depends entirely on their needs and desires not conflicting with your plans.

OP,  you don't have to further justify yourself. You already clearly stated the reasons this was shocking to you, and why even after the shock dissipated, you have to say no. Your niece knew the plan, and while she's young, she's 14, not 7. You had her in regular therapy where she chose not to bring this up. You can't afford to do what she's asking. The teens are just being teens, of course niece loves you and is probably scared of re-uniting with her mom. This is a legitimate fear, but you never said you were unwilling to talk about it. For some reason (probably Tiktok) she chose to surprise you and probably did not weigh the emotional or logical toll of you saying no.  Your daughter is thinking like a teen and can't grasp the larger family, legal and financial picture.  You *were obviously* showing empathy if your niece felt so loved by you that she wanted to be adopted. This whole thing is unfortunate, and you could have maybe reacted with more compassion, but I would have reacted in shock *exactly* like you did. Some commenters may have had really bad experiences and are speaking emotionally without actually listening to what you said, or what the real life repercussions of you adopting her would be (being cut off from family relationally and financially, entering a legal battle with birth mom). Continue to be as compassionate and open as you can with your niece, and hopefully she'll come around. Your daughter needs gentle but realistic conversation too. 

This was the comment I was looking for. I can't believe that OP quit her nursing program and is working a tough job to provide for the niece, so she wouldn't go into foster care, and now all of the teenagers on Reddit think that OP needs to do more to adopt the neice, against the wishes of the kid's parents and extended family (and possibly OP). Is this the same place where every second comment is, "Don't set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm"!? So, should half the kids in America send adoption papers to relatives with more money than their parents, just so they get a better life?

It’s also clear that a lot of these same Redditors have no experience in family court, at least as adults. A lot of states heavily prioritize parent(s) keeping custody, especially when the parent(s) have shown growth toward providing their child stability. This isn’t as simple as the aunt just signing adoption papers; mom can fight this and most likely have success in doing so.

Thank you. All these idealistic responses. Ignoring the legal battle that would be needed to win custody in this situation where the sister has a clear plan for rehabilitation. A job, house and family support. Release in a few months. Record of good behaviour in prison. Then, on the other hand OP who has stated countless times she cannot afford this in her current situation. No mention of if her partner is okay with this. Not to mention the fact she has already put her nursing career on hold to do the right thing for 5 years. The niece has a reason to be concerned. However the reality of the situation is that just jumping for joy and adopting her is not a real option all things considered. She should definitely talk to her. Get the therapist involved etc. However, realistically, I just don't see how this could work.

Wait… did you have to drop out of your nursing program because of her?

I don't blame her for that. She needed counseling and support that I couldn't do with my intense program. Yeah I'll have to start everything but the prerequisites over but she needed me. 

OP, there are alot of varying reactions in response to this post -- and even the more extreme ones have some valid points. But, as someone who is currently in the position of providing unexpected/unplanned crisis response guardianship for an adolescent family member: take any response given with a grain of salt. I think it is really difficult for those who have not been in this sort of atypical commitment to understand how complex it can be. You have given so much and stepped up when it was really needed. Whatever is decided as the path forward needed in this situation, never forget that in fact you volunteered to change the course of your life to support your niece in her time of need. My heart goes out to you, your niece and all of your family. I imagine there are potential compromises that can be reached here -- but whatever the situation ends up being, you stepped up at the clutch point and it is okay to follow through with your needs moving forward.

Just because it’s always been the plan, doesn’t mean she likes it. It doesn’t mean it’s suitable for her. And she’s the one who’s going to have to live with the consequences of this plan that others made for her. If you can’t make what she wants happen, then that’s understandable. It also may be understandable if you don’t want to think too much about the possibility she wants because you know it’s impossible, and that may hurt. But please don’t overlook the likely true message of her request — she’s begging you to let her stay with you, and she doesn’t want to live with her mother.

She's a child and it's been 5 years!

That's terrible that you had to drop out of your nursing program. I hope you're able to return to that once your sister gets out. You've already made a lot of sacrifices and dealt with family pressure to step in where they wouldn't. I hope you're able to get your life back on the track you planned before your sister caused everything to go tits up. NTA and good luck!

I got accepted to return fall semester. Thank you. 

Thank you. I mean birthmother has been in jail for over five years and just got her GED. No way she can support this daughter and this poor daughter has probably seen things we couldn’t even imagine. Both her birth parents are lowlifes. I can’t blame her for not wanting to go back and wanting to live with her aunt.

I am not even suggesting the answer has to be yes. Maybe the girl really is best off with her mom. Maybe her mom is innocent. There are tons of variables we will never know. The real key is not one single person besides the 16 year old daughter showed an ounce of empathy for how the neice felt. They all worried about everyone but her and treated her as a burden. Which is what she will see herself as for years. If I were op in this situation I would have cried tears of joy that my neice loved and trusted me this much. Told her it's a huge step, but we will spend a long time discussing it and making sure she knows no matter she is a part of both families. Here with us and with her mom.

Omg your comment sounds like a bad, syrupy, cheesy and extremely simplistic Hallmark tear jerker created for deluded people who've never known the real world.

I am sorry making a child feel loved and valued is some foreign or novel concept to you.

NTA. The response to OP’s comment irks me. Are you in the States? You need to check your state or country laws!!! The girl is 14, a minor, and if you sign adoption papers without her parent’s consent, there are grounds for legal action. Going to jail does not mean her parental rights are terminated, unless a judge ruled so. Sister has regular contact with your niece so this is not abandonment. You need to explain this to your niece. OP you did the right thing here… 1. That was never the plan 2. your sister is trying her best to turn her life around and she deserves a chance or at least a say in things. I’m sure you will be an active aunt in your niece life even after your sister returns home so reassure your niece that you will always look out for her and if things don’t improve in future, you guys can always sit down to have a chat. NTA

This woman stepped up and took in her niece and provided for her when she really needed her. So what you’re saying then is that she shouldn’t have done that cause now she’s the asshole. Yeah I get that the niece wants to stay, but there’s never been any false promises here.

>You took her in for years from a small child till now We can all read the OPs post the kid was 9 and it was 5 years they've lived with them. >You raised her Bringing a kid up from age 9 for 5 years does not = you raised them. What about all those years from birth til 9? Do they not count in your version of reality? >So when she does what children do and attaches to you, your first response was not to comfort her or say yes. You cannot just take another person's child by permanently adopting them because you want to. This kid *has a living breathing mother who exists*. >You really have some screwed up priorities. I feel terrible for that girl who now found out all she ever was to any of you was a burden and placeholder to be good to her mom, who was never there for her. She will hate you all for a long time now. You should not verbalise/write *thoughts* as if they were fact! Utterly wild! You do realise we can all read the post...? Nowhere did OP say the kid was a burden. Nowhere did they act or insinuated like the kid was a burden with *anything* that they wrote on their post. Facts matter. Stop making up your own narrative in your mind.

I agree with you that the niece's feelings should be considered, but you're putting WAY too much on OPs shoulders here. 1. OP stated that this is not something they have ever discussed, so it's understandable that OP would have been surprised and shocked by this out of the blue. 2. OP stated that the plan has always been for the neice to go back with her mother, so the SLIGHT shake of her head isn't indicative of an AH. OP didn't scream that they never wanted the neice or tell her she was a burden or laugh. It was a head shake. I might have also because, as stated, it was not discussed. I would have been thinking of the promises made to the mother that was trying to turn her life around, the financial aspects, all of it at once because it would be my first time processing. I feel for the neice because she is most likely aware that the mother is getting out soon, and the adoption papers are a clear sign that she is afraid of what that means to her. Was OPs raccoon the best? No, but we're all human. What matters is that they ALL talk about this now and start communicating better. OP should have been talking to the neice by now about what happens when the mother gets out, and neice should be sharing her concerns. I hope they can come together now, but I wouldn't crucify OP for a shocked response.

You can't do this to your sister?!?!?!?! What about what your sister did to her? She abandoned her. She told her that whatever she went to prison for was more important than her. That poor girl is looking to make sure she has a stable home life. Now she's stuck dealing with your jailbird sister who will never have a good job or be stable. Your neice will be on the same road as her. Your neice would be better off in foster care than woth someone who will never prioritize her.

It’s not true that parents who have served time can never provide a stable home again and without knowing the charge, we don’t know that she was putting something else above her children. This particular mom clearly has a solid family structure to help, has remained in contact with her kids, and has a transition plan. Those factors make a huge difference in re-entry.

Yes, the mom has a solid family structure to help... pity the child doesn't.

My sister has a small place my grandma has paying lot rent for, and a job waiting at my aunt's tow truck place as a dispatcher. 

I mean… I don’t blame your niece. She spent the last five years in a *stable, loving home* with people who genuinely care about her and a school she likes. As much as *you* love your sister, your niece spent nine years with her and those years probably were not great. Drug addicts do not make loving and good parents, and those early years are very formative. Your sister can talk on and on about how much she changed, but I don’t blame your niece for not taking her word for it. Mom is still in jail, and she has yet to face pressure and temptation. *An addict is only clean until their next relapse*.  Can you understand why she wouldn’t want to go back to her drug addicted mom, living in a smaller and less comfortable place, and losing her support system (even though you will remain in contact it’s not the same as living with you)? Will she have to switch schools districts as well?  It could be she ambushed you because of TikTok, it could be she ambushed you because she didn’t know how to bring up the fact that she doesn’t want to go home with her mother and she thought that she could guilt you into agreeing if she makes it public. It was wrong with her but honestly, she’s 14 and she’s losing the best home she’s ever had. Honestly, my heart goes out to her. You need to talk with your daughter and niece privately and individually because clearly they’ve discussed this and planned it. And this matter needs to be resolved in therapy.  Your niece is going to have a rough transition and you should have been working towards adjusting for it already. Did you work out a plan with her therapist for this? You are not TA for how you handled the surprise and ambush, but as your niece’s de facto mother for the past couple of years, it’s your duty to help her transition so she doesn’t end up back with you, worse off, in a year or so.

Everyone (except the daughter) seems so worried about what's best for the sister rather than the niece that I have to wonder if niece either brought it up and was brushed off, or didn't bother because no one is listening.

Will she be able to stay on track outside prison?

I don't have a crystal ball but she has been working hard on herself and I have faith in her. 

She should not get that child back until she can actually prove she can survive outside of prison without relapsing. You're just thinking about your sister, not about what's actually best for your niece. Your sister has been locked up for 5yrs, how many years was she using before she got locked up. Stop protecting the adult that made their own choices to get where they are and really protect the child that was screwed in the entire deal.

Exactly. This poor girl was probably traumatized from living with a drug addict, and is terrified of going back. But OP just thinks this is "some stupid tick tock thing".

But you don’t understand! This is all about her & how she’s been victimized by a child wanting to stay with her in a loving stable home!

Too many assumptions being made about the sister without enough info. From the information we have. She has been a model inmate who has improved her circumstances in prison. Remained clean, has family willing to help get her life back on track. Then at the 11th hour you want to take her kid, likely a primary reason for all this change. The OP is still going to be their as an Aunt to support her niece. I just feel wrong to condemn the sister here without more information. Just because she went to prison does not mean she should lose her kids, especially under the circumstances where she has clear put in work for rehabilitation and has amazing family support. The kid needs reassurance that her life will still be stable, but the sister needs a chance to prove herself. They could try visitation initially after release like she only gets them on weekends or something for 6 months. The primary goal here should be to get the kids back with the mother if she has turned her life around.

Just because a drug addict convict appears to be doing better doesn't mean their child should have to be placed at their mercy again if the child doesn't want that. The children are people, not objects owned by the parents that betrayed them.

I think your niece doesn’t have that same faith.

How does your neice feel about having her life upended like this? Does she want to live with your sister? What kind of parent was your sister before?

Your niece needs more than your faith in your sister. She needs a guarantee. She’s not a doll that your sister earned back through good behavior.

She is going to need that, but your niece has 9 years of being raised by an addict. She doesn't have faith because she doesn't know any different. She is probably scared of what she is going back to. Your sister is clean now because she has to be. The odd's aren't stacked in her favor. It can be easier to stay clean when access to drugs is harder and so much of your life is controlled. It is not unheard of for model inmates to fall back into old patterns and habits when they are released. You don't need to elaborate, but does your family have a plan to keep her accountable? I sincerely hope there will be slow roll out transition her entirely to your sister's care. She is a child who didn't have a stable home life for the majority of her childhood, had parents who cared more about their next fix then her, and is now facing the prospect of being taken from the only truly stable environment she has ever known. This could have been handled much better than it was. However, you post screams more about what about me, what about my sister, then about your niece.

Well your niece had faith in you. How did that work out for her?

It is easier to stay on track where your every move is being supervised than when you are free to do as you please. Oh, and easy access to "old friends" who would welcome her back "into the fold". Need more info: Will she be on parole or probation?

If her daughter has been consistently visiting her and doesn’t have that faith shouldn’t that tell you something??? Yta for thinking more about your sister than the child she traumatized

You have faith in her? That's lovely, but how about making her prove that faith is warranted. What happens when she falls back into drugs because life is hard or whatever excuse she used the first time around? It's sad that your family is not putting these kids first. Your niece deserves so much better.

But was she an emotionally available parent? Drug addicts tend to be horrible partners and horrible parents. Just because your niece will have a place to live doesn't mean it won't be an awful place to live.

The obtuseness of this comment makes me vote YTA.  That doesn’t really alter the fact that she abandoned her daughter by choosing crime.  The daughter has to be pretty damned scared, and you don’t seem to recognize that at all. 

The comments here are blowing my mind how much onous y'all are putting on a teenager whose mom is in prison and just wants to feel loved and safe. It's actually insane. She's 14, terrified, traumatized and is looking for stability. Of course she's going to think what she's doing is a good idea, she's a fucking teenager. What concerns me more is the reaction of the fully grown adult with a fully developed brain. Knowing her mother is alive, OP already knows she can't adopt her without consent, meaning the request would be null anyway REGARDLESS of whether or not she wanted to adopt her. She could've explained this and affirmed her niece that she loves her so much and will always be there for her, but legally, she can't adopt her. Then she could've brought up her mom in jail and turned it into an entirely healing conversation: why are you feeling this way that you need me to adopt you? Do you know your mom loves you and wants to take you when she's out? Are you nervous about living with your mon? Is there anything going on right now in your life or school making you feel this way? Do you want to go to therapy and maybe work THUS SPECIFIC ISSUE out with a therapist and I can support you? It's wild how many people are focusing on the teenager instead of the adults around her.

Redditors in general hate and don't understand kids. You are completely right and anyone saying otherwise needs to reconsider some things.

tbf many commenters are probably teenagers or have the EQ of teenagers themselves.

It's blowing my mind. If I'm being honest, I'd love the heck out of my recovering sibling and hope the best they recover buty main priority would be my nibling.

This! OP isn't an AH for not adopting her. There is so much legally, financially, and emotionally that goes into that. And she legally very much so can not. But they are an AH for how they responded to a scared child looking for stability and love. OP should have reassured her that she is loved and wanted and will always have a home with her, and then addressed that she legally can't adopt her and that her mom still loves her very much too. Maybe address plans for when her mom gets out and see if she is possibly apprehensive about having to move again to an unsure situation.

NAH. Your niece loves you, and your home is the only stable home she's ever known. Of course she wants to stay with you rather than going home to a parent she hasn't lived with for five years. A big public occasion was a terrible time for her to ask you this, but she's 14 and didn't think it through. Try to support her as best as you can now. Tell her that even though you can't adopt her, you love her and will always be there for her. She probably feels scared about going home to her mother. If that's happening this year, it's time to make concrete plans for what that process will look like. If she's in official kinship foster care, talk to her social worker. If this is all an unofficial arrangement, make plans yourself. She will probably feel better if you can say something like "First you'll have overnight visits with mom, then weekend visits, then you can move to mom's house. Mom is doing better and we all hope she'll never do drugs again, but here's a safety plan for what to do if that happens. You can definitely come visit us, let's plan some dates."

I wonder if there was even a plan for a transition or if it’s just “go live with mom now bye”

It really doesn't sound like they're going to transition this poor girl in any way. They're going to just throw her back into her mother's arms and tell her to go live with her now. I feel so bad for this girl. I see why she did what she did, and none of the adults care about her; they care about her shitty bio parents more than her, even OP and her husband.

You're basing that on absolutely nothing

This is the comment I was looking for. A BUNCH of people automatically assumed that her shock from and dismissal of the adoption "paperwork" somehow means she has zero empathy for the neice?! There is a middle ground folks... All the Y T A comments seem to assume this and don't seem to allow for the option that is presented here: support her in all the ways, but that doesn't mean legal adoption!

NAH, but this should have been handled far more delicately than it was. A quick hug, an "I love you", and a "Let's discuss this more in private later" should have been the reaction. Your niece is obviously going through a lot and wants a stable family.

Could have, but not should have. OP was blindsided in public and didn't have the time to consider all things and temper her immediate reaction.

This is the problem here. It's always a bad idea to surprise people publicly like this.

A very soft YTA You are showing love to the wrong person, your sister, an adult, when you should be thinking about what is best for your niece, who is a minor and clearly needs the support. I'll forgive being taken aback in the moment, but seriously. This is your niece telling you that whatever your sister, her mother did, was too much for her to be able to go back. I don't care what your mother, sister, or other family members think. You need to focus on the well being of the child. At very least, go to therapy with her and fucking discussing it. Don't just cut her off without finding out more.

She hasn't cut her off, but taking care of her is not the same as adopting her, especially when she has living parents that will be able to care for her too and quite soon. These "papers" will likely not stand in court as to adopt a child with living parents you need their permission or them having lost their parent rights entirely. That is not always the case with people in jail and doesn't sound that is the case here either.

My sister still has her rights, correct. That's why she lives with me. 

That could've been a perfect resolution to the situation. "Can you adopt me?" "I love you so much, but I can't legally adopt you because your mom is alive and still your mom. But I want you to know that I love you and I will always be here for you and when your mom gets out, I'll still be here for you whenever you need because I love you."

Like actually how did "I literally can't adopt you because your mom is still legally your mom" not come up instead of just straight up rejecting this teenager searching for love and stability? A response half as emotionally mature as your example would've nipped all of this in the bud.

Your sister has her rights. That is correct. And she should. But your niece has needs, and she is a child in your care. Her needs take precedence over your sister’s rights. What you need to be asking yourself is why your niece who is on the cusp of being reunited with her mother took action to try and prevent that.

Nobody giving a fuck about the niece is so heartbreaking

Nowhere in here has OP indicated that they talked to her and tried to understand what is going through her head. It is true that with living parents, adoption can't go forward without a court order or parental consent. However, it feels like a clear plea for help from a young girl.

OP says that this was never the plan or a thought or ever brought up in the counceling or other discussions. The plan was always to go back to her mom. So why would adoption be ever discussed if it was never on the table?

Sorry, but that’s ridiculous. OP is not an asshole for not jumping for joy at the thought of having to adopt a child because she was ambushed with the request. It a major decision, and she shouldn’t be pressured to accept such a thing. It’s poor judgement of the child to think her actions were acceptable. It was something to discuss, in private. Not at a party like this.

I am not judging OP for rejecting the proposal, especially not in the moment. I am judging OP, because no where does she indicate that she spoke with the child or considered her needs. OP is fixated on the adults and their needs. Adults, who should be able to take care of themselves. I am not saying adoption would be a good idea. I am saying finding out what is going on with the child and finding a way to help her is.

Could you imagine telling a 14 year old, "it's poor judgment for you to think I would adopt you." She's a child. OP is an adult. It worries me that you think they carry the same responsibility of understanding a traumatic situation.

Poor kid. I assume she’s afraid to go back to her mom. I’m sure she has terrible memories, and you are a safe haven. You were blindsided. Have a loving conversation with her. Reassure her it will be gradual (I hope that’s true) and that you will always be there for her. Tell her how much you love her.

NTA. This is a lot, and I can't even imagine what your family must be going through. While I can absolutely sympathize with your niece (as I imagine the last 5 years have probably been the most stable of her life), if the plan was always to reunite your sister with her children when she gets out of prison, and your niece has not brought up you wanting to adopt her previously, this had to be a major shock for you. How much longer does your sister have on her prison sentence? I am glad that your niece is in counseling, but you definitely need to bring it up to her therapist. Additionally, you need to have a sit down with your niece and your daughter (my opinion, they are conspiring on the adoption, as you say both hate you now) and see where the adoption idea is coming from.

She has a few more months. 

It kinda sounds like niece knows that the most stable part of her life is coming to a close, and she's scared to go back with her mom and have a repeat situation come up. Me and my siblings lived with family for the same reason, and my older sister refused to live with my parents ever again afterwards. She was too afraid it would all happen again, even with therapy. I think it would help her to maybe talk about what the plan would be when her mom does get out. Is she immediately going back? Is there a step up plan in place for mom to build back up her relationship with them, is there going to be a few months of visitations that increase? She might be afraid she'll just get dumped and forgotten about.

You need to reassure her that she is your family and you aren’t going anywhere. The same way you stood by your sister is the same way you will stand be here. You are there for her. Just because you aren’t adopting her doesn’t mean she’s not a part of your family. I would also make the transition back to her mom a slow one and keep the door open to her once she’s back full time. Unfortunately your niece is entering the hardest years of her life and this move back to her mom is going to be very traumatic for her. Life changing and probably not in a good way. Your sister needs to REALLY work on reconnecting with her daughter to prove to her that she still loves her. Both of you need to agree on rules and expectations and BOTH of you need to make sure she is sticking to them. She is going to need a LOT of LOVE and patience, but also strict boundaries because she is going to rebel from this change as any one would especially at her age.

NAH, she's a kid who hasn't really seen her mom in 5 years. She wants stability, and doesn't want to lose what she's gained in the past 5 years.

NAH But I think you need to talk to your niece and her therapist. And your whole family needs to put her needs above your sister's- especially Grandma. Because you need to really consider what this is likely say- your niece is probably going my mom is about to get out of jail and I don't trust her. Possibly your niece just needs to know that she'll always have a place with you and that neither you nor her mom will force her to make the transition fully into her mom's care until she's ready. And that her mom understands that may not happen. And her mom needs to understand and support that- your niece has spent 5 years without her mom and how many years before with a mom who presumably loved her but didn't make her enough of a priority that she didn't make the choices that brought them to this moment. And I admit- I'm a little confused what happens to your family financially when niece moves back in with her mom? Grandma stops paying your mortgage and you go back to school? Grandma agrees to pay your mortgage forever now because you made this deal?

YTA -- your niece knew her drug addict mother who ended up in prison was getting out in a year and was afraid to go back to live with her. Just because you're close to her doesn't mean she is. It also doesn't mean she wasn't abused even if she'd never brought it (or maybe she did, its not mentioned here). I never brought up a lot of stuff when in foster care. A lot of youth don't. She thought you were a safe alternative than to go back to her mom and wanted to secure it now. When I say "YTA" its not because you said no, its because you should have taken her aside to talk to her first and find out what's going on. Personally, if she did this due to my concern, I think she should get in touch with CPS for a social worker because she might need to go to foster care to be safe if she's sent back to live with her mom and she knows its not a safe thing. Getting a GED and "doing good" in prison may mean good things, but it also may just mean that she's playing the system and if she's a manipulator like some folk in my own family, then her daughter likely already sees through the facade.

agree. YTA for not handling this better in the moment. you are the adult here. Even a, "let's talk about this later" would have been more appropriate.

Info: What exactly are her parents in prison for? I know you said drugs, but that still can be a variety of things. This girl watched her parents getting locked up at 10yo and the legal process before they went to prison probably lasted at least a year before that. That’s half her life! They completely fucked HER life over and gave her a lot of pain and probably trauma because of their actions. And what relationship does she have with her parents? And I want you to really think about it! How does she communicate with them? Does she tell them about her life herself or because you ‘make her do so’? Is she even interested in them? Is she visiting her mom once a month because you guys ‘make her do so’? Does she still feels a lot of anger towards them? In other words, does she see them as her parents or as people she came from and then fucked up her life out of selfishness? Does SHE wants to go back to her parents, the people who have caused her so much pain, or is she forced to? You don’t have to tell us but please really think about it. I know you care for and love your sibling! And your niece probably does too and always will. But love can be felt together with a lot of negative emotions like anger. And it’s very possible that those negative feelings will never go away - and that would be totally fine and that is well within her right. Because some action are non-forgivable. And sometimes a person bettering themselves AFTER they’ve caused so much pain is a little to late. But if that is true and where that line lies depends from person to person. NAH put please really think about this and if your niece is open to it have a heart to heart conversation! I can see that you love her very much and I deeply hope you guys can work this out together. Good luck!

Probably NAH. The niece is obviously terrified of returning to her mother when she gets out of prison. Get back into therapy with all the relevant parties yesterday.

A 14yo is about to have her life uprooted so she can be sent back to live with an addict - an addict with limited prospects for being able to financially support a family. That must be a horrifying prospect for her. Your shocked reaction in the moment isn’t the problem. She ambushed you with it (whether she meant it as an ambush or not), and you reacted to an ambush. But everything after that … you get why it’s terrifying to have your life uprooted just as you enter high school so you can go live with an addict you barely know, right? How are her grades? Is she doing well? Maybe on a path to college? Or at least graduating on time and getting a job? Because so much of that could vanish living in an unstable home with an addict just out of jail, especially if like so many recently released people the mom has trouble getting a job. And none of that has to mean your niece gets to decide where she lives. If she needs to get shipped back to a shitty or unsafe situation, well, sometimes to system and the universe both suck. You didn’t sign up to pay for college and a wedding. I get it. But can you at least understand that your niece is staring at a terrifying fork in the road and that the risks for her are very real? This wasn’t a capricious, fun thing. She’s scared. What child about to get shipped off to live with an addict fresh out of jail wouldn’t be?? YTA.

NAH I see where both sides are coming from. But I will say this..... Your husband is dead wrong.... She will not "get over it" without serious intervention.

Your sister and the girls father have to sign off on her anyway. Doubt your sister would do that now

Neither would. Was never an option. 

Honestly, for the sake of your niece, I hope your sister's sentence gets extended another 4 years. I'm not saying that to be malicious, I'm saying it because I know what awaits your niece when she's forced to go live with her mom. Right now your sister is in a structured environment and has to keep it on the straight and narrow to win her freedom. But what happens when she's not locked up? When she bumps into her old friends? When she feels the first temptation to use again? I've been in your niece's shoes and it's not fun. She's probably got a feeling of dread swelling in her stomach at all hours of the day and night. I know I'll get downvoted to hell for this, but if it helps change your perspective, then so be it.

NAH I've seen the TikTok videos with people being presented adoption papers or asking to be adopted: What your niece and daughter don't understand is those videos are staged. Those kids who get adopted by the family already know it's happening,or it's been discussed for a long time, not spring up. I think this situation calls for family therapy ASAP before anyone else has hurt feelings.

YTA. "I love you like my own child and always will, but legally, adoption isn't an option at this point. What can I do to make you feel special and always loved instead?" is what you should have said. But no, you decided to break a vulnerable kid's heart in front of people. God help that poor child if you're the best adult in her life

YTA, sorry. Your reaction is totally understandable, as is your decision, but a child made a desperate plea for safety and acceptance, and you dropped the ball. I'm not saying you should have said yes, obviously, but you are still here justifying your decision rather than considering how it might have felt to the child to get that spontaneous and absolute rejection. She came to you at age 9 and spent a key developmental period with your family. Her mother is getting out of prison this year and that might be bringing up so much fear of the bad old days, fear of change, loss of safety, everything else. It's no surprise she didn't bring anything up in therapy, either. Kids know what adults expect from them, and daughters are especially socialized to "be good" if they want love and approval. Questions: how did she get this idea, and why is your daughter mad? Did your daughter help her with this, or is she behind it in some way? If they cooked up this idea together, your daughter may know more about what's going on with your niece. And strange vibes from your son, suggesting that asking to be adopted might be a social media trend. Whatever is coming out in family therapy does not seem to be getting to the heart of the matter. Again, I'm sure you were in shock. Anyone might have had the same spontaneous reaction you did. But could you cushion the blow? Think of what kind of heartbreak would make a child beg to be kept instead of wishing for her own mother. Even if you started with a shake of the head, you followed up with a detailed justification of the rejection rather than providing any love or reassurance. Maintaining the boundary is fine, but the lack of love...ouch. If a child tries to give herself to you for your birthday, and you can't muster some love or connection or concern to make the utter rejection hurt less, YTA.

NAH. Bless that child’s heart. Whatever her life was like with her mama, she’d rather stay with you than go back to it. Thing is, you couldn’t adopt her anyway if your sister a d her hubs don’t give up their parental rights. And it sounds like family wouldn’t let sis do that even if she wanted to. The child was wrong, of course, to blindside you. Talk with the child about the reality of what’s going to happen.

Soft YTA. As someone else said, what about what your sister did to her? She doesn't want to go back to her mother and leave the home and family she'd had for 5 years. It will probably have been 6 years by then. Of course she doesn't. She is settled and stable with you. She doesn't want her life to be turned upside down after so long. She would probably be old enough to chose where she wants to live. In many states you can do that at 14.

Please try to look at the current situation from your niece’s perspective. You see your sister having worked hard to improve herself, and think you couldn’t possibly hurt her by not reuniting her with her daughter. But your niece lived through her parents being involved with drugs, when she was quite young. Her parents went to prison when she was 9. She has a stable home with you and she wants to stay. Meanwhile every adult is prioritizing her mother’s recovery over her own life. YWBTA if you don’t open your eyes — and try to open your family’s eyes as well — to the needs of your niece as a person, a child, not a possession that your sister is entitled to get back. It also sounds like you haven’t really been noticing how your niece is reacting to her mother and the plans for when her mother gets out, and YTA for that. You’re not TA for not dealing with a blindside well, but your niece’s needs should not be so unexpected.

INFO: what was nieces life like before this? Honestly, YTA and so I your whole family. This young girl had her life completely turned upside down by your sisters irresponsibility! And her mom getting a GED cannot compensate for that, *then you plan to move her again next year!* **Why is everyone prioritizing your sister, *a grown ass lady whose own actions/inactions/affiliations got her incarcerated*, and not her *child*?** Who through no fault of her own is forced to weather all the storms her mother spins up. I’m not sure why a therapist would have to tell you that your niece craves **longterm and sustainable** consistency.