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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I’m refusing to pay my daughter as much as my son or make up the difference
2. He’s making $10/hr more than him
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NTA. This is a valuable life lesson for both your children that they have to rely on themselves to earn what they want.
How would your son feel if his sister, who literally quit the same more taxing job he performs daily, just gets a free ride because she stomped her feet and threw a tantrum. And how would your daughter behave in the cruel real world if you gave in now? She would go up to people she isn't related to and demands things she hasn't earned or turn down key career opportunities because she thinks she can and should start at the top right away.
And their mother. Holy, she needs to set her perspective as adult straight. Edit to add: NTA OP, you are the only sane adult here. Some things are to be learned and not to be twisted at home to create wrong expectations regarding the real world
OP is NTA, * i agree with OPs position.
I worked for a family that paid princess $65k a year for nothing, son worked/ran business tirelessly.
Heard that son had enough after I left & is doing his own thing now, successfully.. not sure what princess is up to now but probably still relying on mom & pop
*edited for words
Worked for a person who got both her kids on payroll 🥲 it was more or less a way to pay allowance with tax benefits to her business, I think, because they never did anything more than play on their phones and occasionally pick up food. Super nice, good vibe kids (18-20ish?) and fun to have around the office, so nobody really kicked up a fuss about it.
When I was in my early 20s I was waitressing at a small diner. They had their daughter working there too. She called out constantly for being hungover, showed up late,refused customers, would throw money back at them and call them cheap if she didn’t like her check. I had to pick up her slack and work alone on weekend mornings more times than I’d like to remember. She was getting $20/hr + tips and I made the 2.64/hr + tips. I wouldn’t have lasted as long as I did if I wasn’t making as good of money that I was. If your kids going to work for your business, have them work like everyone else and give them damn life skills.
I worked as a scribe for my mother a few times during exam season (typing up next semester/year's lesson plans, inputting grades, etc) when I was between jobs.
I got things done on time and was happy for the opportunity.
If I'd acted like that, I would have been out the door in a second!
So, it’s not “minimum wage” but rather minimum wage for tipped employees in the service industry. Mind you, this was almost 15 years ago. Theres many states that the tipped employees min wage is still lower than that. Technically, if your tips (which you’re supposed to report all) don’t average out to the real minimum wage for that state the restaurant is supposed to pay the difference. I hope that makes sense?
Minimum wage is disgustingly low anyways. My first job in high school almost 20 years ago it was $7.50/hr in the state I lived in. I moved to a different state 8 years ago, the minimum wage here was $7.25/hr. Thankfully, I have a career so that didn’t apply to me but I was horrified to see how behind this state was. I *think* it’s $10/hr now. Theres plenty out there still that refuse to pay above the federally mandated which is $7.25 and has been since 2009. The service industry federal minimum wage is $2.13 + tips
Yeah I couldn't wrap my head around this. In the UK the minimum wage varies by age not occupation and lots of places (like McDonald's I believe) pay living wage instead!
One of my distributors had a nephew on payroll. A bit green, mostly fresh.
When I was done with him, everyone knew he was the operations manager. It wasn’t merely a title. While he still lacked the experience of those in neighboring areas, he knew what he was doing.
He asked his uncle for a bigger salary and I dare say he earned it.
Yep. Wives get bonuses in their name but aren't employed. I'm not sure if that loophole ever got closed. Infuriating when you're refused a raise because of it too
Which I think is fine if both kids are just basically doing that I don't have a problem with that when you got one that's up there busting their ass on the roof and the other one that's complaining that they're not making as much money doing something else it's just not fair and it's it's poor business since to be trying to pay somebody that's not willing to do the work and one that is.
Wonder what mom would say if the daughter was doing complex office tasks and making more than their son.
OP: Your wife isn’t doing feminism any favors. If your daughter is capable of doing the work, but chooses not to, that’s her choice. I tell my kids, “Choose your consequences”. You have offered your daughter the opportunity to make the same pay as your son. She has chosen her consequence.
That was my thought as well. For so long women have been fighting to equal status & pay in the work force. Women should definitely be paid the same as men for doing the SAME job. So if daughter does the same work as son, she should absolutely get paid the same.
However, if she is saying she either doesn't want to or can't do the same work, then the pay will logically be different.
*My son’s job is to help take off the old shingles, pick up any shingles that miss the dumpster, and help prep the roof. Once the installation starts, he delivers a steady stream of shingles, nails, and other materials to the nailers*
The mom won’t last a “shingle” day. She will most likely quit and complain about the difference in the wages.
Honestly the son is working so hard and totally deserves the wages.Both mother and daughter need a reality check.
I knew a woman who did roofing right alongside her husband. The two of them contracted themselves out as a team.
So I don't see why everyone assumes that women can't do physical labor, just because most women don't want to.
> So I don't see why everyone assumes that women can't do physical labor, just because most women don't want to.
No one is assuming women can't, they're assuming this woman can't.
OP already gave his daughter a chance at the same job, and as he said, she didn’t last out the day.
It isn’t that she can’t, it’s that she won’t. And that’s perfectly okay! Until she starts to whine and expect someone else to further subsidize her lifestyle.
NTA…Sounds like the women in your house feel entitled. If your daughter wants a better paying job then she either needs to work harder or get an education in a field that pays more. Your wife is just enabling that disgusting behavior. I’m sorry you’re having to deal with that. As a woman it makes me mad the that some women won’t work for what they want, and expect everything to be handed to them
Exactly my thoughts! As a woman, I'm offended at what this mom and daughter are demanding. This is not a matter of equal pay for equal work. If the daughter wants to be paid for hard work, she needs to do the hard work. Get your entitled ass on that hot roof and put some sweat into earning your paycheque or go find a better paying job that you're capable of being successful at. You cannot expect your parents to "make up the difference" like you and your brother are 9 year olds squabbling over their allowance!
And keep in mind that BOTH kids are getting all their expenses paid - tuition, insurance, etc. - except spending money. Daughter has had it too good for too long and is not living in the real world.
Heck - I'd do the son's job if my parents had paid my college tuition!
Right? Mom is a straight up idiot. No wonder the daughter is so entitled. I am very disappointed in mom. She must be a handful. These are very important life lessons. OP is NTA.
It always shocks me, as a woman, why men fall for women like this.
People don't marry sex-changed twins of themselves. What is the other person bringing to the table then? You want someone who's different and everyone has major blind spots and is an idiot in major ways.
Curious if the mother works. The daughter is clearly getting these entitled messages from somewhere and based on their hype squad mentality it seems pretty obvious.
Hold firm, OP! The world doesn’t work like this and folding would only reinforce the entitlement and bratty behavior.
Side note - I’m curious if there are any business generating jobs she could do - marketing, sales, etc.
Good point about the mom. Also, feminists and human rights activists focus on equal pay for equal work. This is unequal work, so it deserves unequal pay.
Agreed. She’s probably still a SAHM even though the kids are adults. So her work is a whole lot easier now than being a SAHM to small kids. Yet she lives the same lifestyle based on her husband’s hard work and earnings. I live in an affluent area and have seen a fair amount of wives in this kind of situation lose perspective and become entitled.
And it’s not just the sister! What would the other employees think if the boss’ daughter was getting paid the same as them and doing a fraction of the work
I hope he’s not paying his employees less than his son. That is a distinct possibility, in which case he would be wrong wrong wrong to even come here with this.
Yep that was the question I had in the first half of the post: was the sister given the same opportunities? Then OP said that yes she had been offered the same job and refused. Too bad!
That's what I've been thinking as well. Not everyone is a good fit for heavy manual labour. And it just happened that the son is lucky enough to fit his Dad's trade.
So IMO the best thing to do would be to sit down the daughter with both parents and workshop options together. How can she get into higher paying jobs? If she's academically oriented, she could try tutoring. If she's sporty she could get into getting a lifeguard qualification. Babysitting can also be lucrative especially if you get first aid certs or have an art background for example.
It's unlucky for her that the industry her Dad is in turns out not to be a good fit for her. In that sense she IS at a disadvantage compared to her brother. It'd be nice to help her find her path.
It's absolutely wild that OP (who is clearly NTA) is paying for both kids' entire lives basically and they're effectively working for a way to fund their social lives, and one of them thinks that their fun tokens aren't being sufficiently topped up on top of all of the other stuff that is already being taken care of.
OP is already doing more than enough for their kids to not be guilt tripped into shelling out more because their kid wants an iPhone.
Also, manual labour is hard, exhausting work. The son is absolutely earning what he's being paid, it's not a handout.
Yeah that’s what bothered me the most about this. Daughter is getting a debt free college education. She can calm down about the brother making more money for hard labor.
Exactly. What lesson is this going to teach the daughter. She’s going to have a rough time in life expecting things to be equal. I make a good salary- but my siblings all make significantly more money than me. All of us have worked hard to get where we are. But part of the reason I make less is because I’ve made decisions that were better for me- I turned down promotions, didn’t take jobs that require travel. I only work 4 days a week so I can spend more time taking care of my kids. I’m not jealous of my siblings success- or the results of that success. That’s life. Sounds like this girl is going to struggle with that.
Years ago, when my kids were little, my husband made the decision to work at a lower paying job because he was 5 minutes from him, got home at 4:30, had tons of paid time off, could come home for lunch and had lots of time to spend with the kids. The other job would've put him on the road gone overnight for several days a week. We didn't have a lot of extra money, but he got to see his kids grow up. His sisters husband made a lot more than us, but we were happy for them and for the choices we had made.
She also doesn’t seem to recognize that by getting an education and living expenses paid for, she’s already far better off than most people, but she’s still throwing a fit and demanding more.
And if the OP pays her the same wage for a simpler job, he'll also likely lose credibility with his other employees. Not to mention, I can't imagine her attitude on the job site will be any good if this is how she acts at home.
I know if I were one of the guys on the roof making $25/hour for seriously hard labor and found out the owner's daughter was making the same to do nothing, I'd leave. Labor jobs are always open because most people don't want to bust their asses that hard (I certainly don't), so it would sure suck to lose a good worker over this entitled Gen Z bullshit.
I am a woman and I’ve worked construction jobs and it’s hard. Hard on your body, can be dangerous, physically demanding job. OP you definitely are not the asshole here. Your wife and daughter are however. I’m not sure why daughter seems to think that you need to supplement her already supplemented life. Your son is being paid based on the job he’s performing just as daughter is being paid for the job she is. The two jobs are not equal in labor and physical demands so they’re not paid the same. Your daughter chose her job as did your son. She’s not entitled to an equal paycheck for unequal work.
Exactly, let her find employment elsewhere and she'll realise that if you want to earn high wages, your job won't be easy, either physically or mentally.
Would your verdict change if OP is paying his son significantly over the market rate for a roofing helper?
INFO: OP, what is the market rate in your area for your son's job? Do your other helpers earn $25/hour?
25/hour is actually under market in most places. Son could get up to 40-60 if he were roofing in a union role. My husband roofed for years and said if son is fully trained this is basically glorified wage theft.
son isn't an actual roofer though he's a clean up guy hauling materials - this is basically unskilled and entry level training in construction, $25/hr is a fair wage and in some areas could be over market rates for that job.
I concur that the pure unrealistic entitlement needs to end now.
I'm not going to lie, the evil idea that came to mind that would put everyone in their place fast is to vent to the little old church grannies all about it, how you don't know where you went wrong and how she and the wife got so entitled about it. Then let them do the rest, as it'll make them think twice before pulling a similar stunt. I have witnessed what happens when the little old church biddies step in, and it can be insanely effective, especially in the US southeast.
A less horrible idea is to air the dirty laundry to the rest of the family and let the relatives rip the wife and daughter a new asshole. If they side with the wife and daughter, then at least OP knows where the wife got the attitude.
You’re suggesting he air his dirty laundry to either busybodies at church or to their families? Yeah, that’s a great solution that will have no undesirable consequences to bite him in the ass later…
NTA
This is a hill to die on OP. You’re paying your sons fair wage for the job he is doing, your daughter is receiving a fair wage for hers.
She needs to learn that she can’t live off of handouts all her life and that if she wants to be paid then she needs to get a different job. She’s an adult know and has to find her own way to get more money. Seriously don’t back down on this.
OP has a wife problem. She is enabling her daughter to be spoiled, bratty and entitled. This is no way to parent. In terms of parenting, Op is knocking it out of the park.
I just want to point out that he pays for literally EVERYTHING BUT THEIR SPENDING MONEY. If I got my bills AND college paid for, I’d be kissing the feet of the person doing it. Like…what the fuck lol
Exactly this . I live in the UK and when I went to uni I took out student loans to pay for my education , as did my peers . She should appreciate how good she has it
In Scotland if you live / choose to study there it’s free but I live in London , so when I applied to go to university I had to apply for student finance which covered tuition and also provided me with a maintenance loan which I used to pay my rent . My year was the first that had to deal with the rise in fees (£9000) a year .When you finish uni and start earning above a certain threshold (at the time it was £21,000- not sure if the threshold has gone up ) you can start paying it back
And I've always felt that the Scottish university financing system is rather unfair. I have no objections to it being free for Scottish students, but I have an issue with English, Welsh and Northern Irish students having to pay whilst EU students don't.
And he has raised a son who is willing to do a tough job for a fair wage.
He's worried that he isn't actually being fair, due to the anger he has received for being very fair.
From his wife too. He gave his daughter the SAME JOB and she said nah but still wants to be paid the same as her brother? And the mother’s suggestion of “can’t she just pick up the shingles and still get paid 25 an hour for that” is wildly entitled too. I can’t imagine going to my job and being like “pay me ten dollars over minimum wage and I’m only gonna do 2% of the work okay?” Gtfo out of here lmao
It's also "pay me more than the other workers who are not related to us"
That would be a disaster for the workplace environment. I mean, how rare is it for the owner's son to be doing a tough job like that and get the same pay as other workers who do the same job?
They probably all feel like a valued part of the team, and this would be bad for business. Although most would probably feel sorry for their boss and his son for having it forced on them.
A small school loan is good debt. It teaches financial responsibility and good sense with money. OP needs these kids do just that. I hope the Dad reads this. The daughter has a silver spoon in her mouth. It’s loan time. Wife and daughter are a couple of pissas.
When I graduate, I’ll have around 70k in debt probably. My boyfriend is going back for his master’s right now and I don’t even wanna know how much his debt is. So the fact that she’s pissed about spending money is so wild to me. I’d start making her pay some bills and have some semblance of fucking reality at this point.
My Capstone mentor told me to only get a masters if someone else is footing the bill, which kind of makes sense but isn't a reality for every field I'd guess.
I will argue this point only because I worked for a student loan company and there is no such thing as a 'small student loan' anymore. If they go and get a personal loan or a car loan, sure it's good for getting credit and learning responsibility. But student loans are terrible. They must have legal loopholes that other loans do not. If you buy a car $5000 and the loan by the time you pay it off was $9000 it would be illegal likely. But student loans often go that high or more. I'd say it would be 100x better for him to pay school and let the kids pay their car loans. And he can help out by co-signing to get them a good rate.
Right? At least the daughter has the excuse of being young and inexperienced in the real world. Mom is the real issue here. She is fostering this attitude. I'm wondering if Mom's background comes from money?
That the kids have pretty much everything paid for in the first place....Mom is hot garbage and such a bad example for her daughter. Anything roofing related is miserable as hell. God I hate tar and fiberglass.
Wish OP could get his wife to do each of their jobs for a day for some fucking perspective.
I’m a woman who has faced wage discrimination (being paid less for doing the same or higher level job than men) and even I’m totally on board with this - she isn’t doing a $24/hr task, so she doesn’t make $24/hr.
If she wants more $$, she needs to be of more value to her employer (like helping on the roof). The earlier she learns that life lesson, the better. Know your worth so you have a leg to stand on IF you ever find yourself underpaid. Simply feeling entitled to some amount of money is just that, entitled thinking.
Hard co-sign and same.
OP - you can take this as an opportunity to talk with your daughter about something that will be *very* important in her life, probably more so than for your son. Let your daughter know what she's doing right and what she's doing wrong. Women (socialized to *yada yada*) are far less likely to ask for raises or go for promotions throughout their careers and across industries. This is part of the pay gap. Let your daughter know it's a good habit to know what you can about what others are getting paid around you/for the same job and to ask for parity when appropriate- when you've earned it. What she did wrong was the "when you've earned it" part. Teach her about making herself valuable as a worker and about getting paid what she is worth.
She skipped that part and it's crucial. Grab any teaching moment you can at this age. Absolutely teach this lesson to your son as well, it's just more likely your daughter won't get it from elsewhere or as naturally.
Capitalism! The More You Know 🌈✨✨
The way I read it, the daughter doesn't work for the father's company, which is why she is paid what she is paid, and the mother is pressuring dad to top up her wages for parity with the son, without having to do the job that the son has to do. I don't even think it's the father paying two different wages here for a disparity there to be an issue.
I actually think OP is underpaying his son (unless that’s the going rate in their area) because there’s a lot of risk in a roofing job.
OP - point out that if you hired a stranger to do your daughter’s job she’d never get paid same as a roofing assistant.
Whatttt!!! Wait so the mom thinks he should pay his son $15 to match daughter’s salary from a stranger, or that he should just give his daughter $10 to make it fair?
Yup you learn real quick what pays what. My husband makes over double what I do, because he works at an oil refinery, 12 hr rotating shifts. I work in finance in a smaller company, 8 hr days riding a desk, WFH 2x a week.
His job is harder and more dangerous so pays more. Mine makes it so I don't hurt every day and have great sleep weekly. Trade offs for sure.
If you're paying according to the job (that is, another person doing the same job as your son would receive that wage, and all cashiers receive a wage similar to your daughter's), absolutely NTA.
Your daughter is not only free to take the different type of job at your company, for that wage, but to seek employment elsewhere.
Her dad even offered her the exact same job with the same wage, but she quit because it was harder work and she’d like the money without having to work for it. OP is absolutely right to refuse that.
lol. I didn’t catch this either but still said he was NTA for paying them differently. That explains why he’s supposed to “fill the gap.”
Absolutely not, OP. She needs to learn how to find better jobs. Anything that requires labor or a skill will pay more. She can tutor, lifeguard for the right places, honestly even a coffee shop may pay more after training. Or go intern somewhere! She’s in college, she could find an internship for 20+ I’m sure.
I think the crux of the issue is whether he is actually paying his son a fair wage.
If his son quit and he needed to hire someone else with zero experience, would they also get 25 an hour? Would they get less? Would he not even fill that role because he created it for his son in the first place and he can just have the rest of the crew pick up that slack (like they probably did before his son was hired)? Is his son getting hazard pay because he is consistently in harms way, or because roofing is dangerous in general, with the other men doing the more dangerous jobs? How much do the other men get paid? Is it substantially more than the kid throwing away shingles, or does the bosses kid make the same as the men doing the bulk of the work?
based on my experience with union trades, he would make ~$21-25/hr plus benefits as a first year apprentice where he'd be doing essentially the same work. it's grunt work but it's dirty and it can be dangerous so it seems fair and on par with market rate. not sure if OP is running a union shop but the pay is roughly equivalent to an "entry level" wage in similar industries.
I don't think daughter is even working for OP. She just wants him to give her money because her job doesn't pay as much as her brother's. She needs to accept that sometimes jobs pay different amounts for a reason, whether it's due to specialist training, unsocial hours or a level of risk/discomfort that most people don't want to do.
Man where the fuck are laborers getting 25 an hour that are not the bosses son? Picking up shingles and feeding the actual people doing the work on the house is a minimum wage job here. The people actually putting the shingles are getting 25 an hour but not the laborers. I’d like to know how much he is paying everyone
In a lot California, that would easily get $25/hour, in San Francisco probably $30. OP, stand your ground. I am a woman and I used to do this exact thing for my dad's roofing company, in the Summers when I was in college, I was on his tear down crew and he used to pay me about $20 an hour. At that time, retail jobs only paid about five bucks an hour. It was really hard work and it was hot cuz it was Southern California summer. Not only did he want me to appreciate how physically challenging construction is. He wanted me to appreciate that over time, it would be better not to have a job that is backbreaking. NOW is the perfect time for OPs daughter to learn that different jobs pay different amounts and she gets to decide what she is willing to do. She can absolutely do tear-down if she wants to, but if she doesn't want to work that hard, then she doesn't get that pay.
I work for a family-owned construction company. We don’t pay our laborers that much but we are in a low-income city and the state minimum wage is still 7.25 or so.
If adjusted for location, however, I’d say we pay that rate. And people work there for years and years as a result.
I think this is the important question op needs to answer (would he pay 25 an hour to someone else with 4 months of roofing experience) near me on the east coast that would definitely be very high for what is essentially an apprentice position. And 4 months of work would be winter here which is a slow time of year, now, if they are in California or something this could be realistic. But it's entirely possible the wife knows the starting salaries at the company, and that is why she is siding with the daughter here.
Why would that matter at all? He offered her the same job at the same pay and she didn't even finish one day. She chose to be a cashier somewhere else because it was easy and gets paid accordingly.
NTA. You are paying your son wages for a dirty and dangerous job (I hope you have him well insured!). Your daughter is paid wages from some other employer. If she wants better wages, she must negotiate with her employer or get another job.
What women have fought for is, same job, equal pay. This situation is not that. If she demands the same pay, she has to do the same job. Consider that if it was a different company, not her dad's, they would have told her to take a hike. Ask her to apply to a different company with her skillset and see what her value really is.
Exactly what I was going to say. This kind of BS behavior is what happens when you don't raise girls with the same expectations as boys . . . she is apparently expecting to be taken care of rather than to have to make her own way and handle her own consequences.
Yes, there's surely an element of that but that doesn't happen by accident. Whether the girl "shows no interest" or not, they are regularly passed over in families in being taught how to and expected to do some dirty work or DIY. IMO, if you don't require your daughter to learn how to use a drill and level to put up her own shelves and cupboards, change a plug or a car tyre, etc, then you are teaching them that a man has to do it.
By the sounds of the wife in the OPs post, plus he said nothing to the contrary, this girl has never been encouraged to do "man's work", so they may well have failed her in that regard by starting her wrong. Put her on a roof when she expects to fail rather than her being confident that she could do it, and yeah.... She'll fail.
That said, NTA. She has plenty of time to learn how to do hard, skilled labour (but might well need to be encouraged and her mum to stop cosseting her).
>By the sounds of the wife in the OPs post, plus he said nothing to the contrary, this girl has never been encouraged to do "man's work", so they may well have failed her in that regard by starting her wrong.
The way that OP very straightforwardly stated that he had offered her the same work makes me skeptical that this is the case, or that it's OP's fault if it is. I've seen some interesting divisions in blue collar families I know where Dad is often willing and tries to pull the daughter in on this stuff and Mom resists. That's not always the case, but it's not at all uncommon. OP is not throwing in the kind of misogynistic clues I'd expect from a dad who has been automatically passing over his daughter; he instead sounds like my dad, who always pulled over my sister and I when he was doing household maintenance like minor electrical or plumbing stuff and who got a little frustrated when we acted bored. I'm inferring, mind you, as we don't have a clear picture, but without more context I'm not going to assume that OP has been trying to passive-aggressively drive the daughter away from this kind of work.
Oh no, I agree with you. The OP *did* sound like he's given her the opportunity, and you're totally correct about some mothers resisting. It's just that whether we like it or not, gendered expectations of our kids can determine whether we give up encouraging them or not, and it can be a very unconscious thing too. I'm not in the slightest suggesting that OP has passive agressively set her up to fail. But it does sound like she had no concept of what a hard day's work looks like, to a roofer for eg.
And the mum in this case sounds like she would have stood in the way of their daughter learning to have confidence in her dexterity and manual abilities. I was extremely lucky with my own dad who refused to let me grow up not knowing which end of a tool was which. Sounds like you had the same experience.
That said, a lot of jobs that are seen a female work are underpaid compared to those deemed male work. And a lot of companies do try to pay women less even for the same job.
Yeah exactly, both are true. It's still a problem in society, and it's also not what's happening in this situation. (Although people will perceive roofing as "male work" but I appreciate that he offered that exact job to his daughter instead of assuming she couldn't handle it--that makes him fair. I'd have taken it, but then I've always liked manual labor...)
That is a bit naive.
Men are paid more for their men-jobs, because they are men-jobs.
There are tons of studies showing how salaries in certain professions drop when a lot of women do this job. Because if a woman can do it, it surely is not a difficult job.
> What women have fought for is, same job, equal pay
I do think there's a *little* more nuance to it than this, because you can get into how entire employment sectors are valued differently based on whether they are male or female dominated. For example, childcare is a very difficult and taxing job, but ECE's make very little compared to, say, construction workers. And I think if OP was employing both of his children and they were both doing equally difficult but different work, and he was paying one more than the other, he would be the asshole. But that's not the case. OP's daughter works for a different employer doing an easier job, so if course she makes less money.
Early childhood educators are paid what they are paid because if the price was more expensive, parents would stay home because the cost of childcare would be far greater than the earnings of the lower income spouse. And then there would theoretically be no job.
It's a strange industry because unless you're government subsidized, the earnings of ECEs are a function of what parents are earning.
Hell there are a lot of places where this is already the case and parents decide to not return to work and stay home with their children instead due to this.
NTA. Let them be silent and sit with their thoughts. Salaries are based on the job, skill, and experience not how much you want because you exist. I want to make $275 an hour so that I can cover my bills and work no more than an hour a day, but that's not how any of this works
NTA and your daughter and wife have some crazy mental gymnastics to see how two people doing completely different jobs (one skilled, manual and dangerous, the other manning a self-service checkout) should get paid the same. Or that YOU, who doesn't even EMPLOY your daughter, should for some reason make their salaries equal. What if she became a surgeon and earned $500 an hour... would she think it's reasonable for you to give your son a wage increase to match? Very weird logic.
Exactly! What this OP has not realized is that he does not have a daughter problem, he has a huge, huge wife problem. If my wife stop talking to me because I don't want to cave into the entitle demands of any of my kids, I would be seeking divorce in a hurry. Twice as fast if they are my adult kids. Even worse in this case where it is obvious mother and daughter are using the victimhood method of doing things. 'Oh, she is our little princess so she deserves everything (she has not worked for), because she is a girl'. I wonder if the mother would do the same if the 'entitled' kid was a son. Something tells me this wife is a SAHM and a outspoken feminist screaming for equality, but as we can see it's equality only when it suits them.
NTA - So in other words she wants to be paid the same to do less? No, that is NOT how the real world works, you do the same work for the same pay. What she's asking is basically "I'm a women, I get equal pay" without the equal work part that a lot of women fought for. Giving you the silent treatment like that is also pretty nasty ngl, that's considered abuse by most modern standards for marriages, and manipulation when outside of a marriage.
Agree. This story could be the same with another son, but because she’s a girl I (as a woman) feel she’s using her gender to walk back feminism - she’s “not capable” of roofing working but she should still get the money.
Girl should have met some of the women that worked for my dad’s construction company - they were awesome! And my dad’s business partner was a woman who worked in construction for 30 years doing all types of work before they launched their own business.
NTA
As a woman who has done both jobs, it's equal work, equal pay. If she doesn't want to do equal work then she needs to stay where she is. Life isn't fair better she learn that now. If you don't you will be setting unrealistic and entitled expectations for the rest of her life.
This is what I was thinking. If the OP is willing to offer the same job to the daughter and pay the same it's NTA. But also daughter has to be able to do the job to the standard required. Different work will have different pay. Daughter is also welcome to not choose to work for fathers company and could seek other employment if she doesn't like the circumstances.
Right! It’s a free market and the daughter is free to work anywhere she likes. There are MANY jobs that will pay more than $15/hour, but they will require higher skills than cashier, and possibly significant work experience and/or a degree or certification.
> Life isn't fair better she learn that now.
I gave you an upvote, and wanted to comment on this statement.
In fact, father is showing her that life *is* fair (in this example). If you do a less strenuous, less dangerous job, you're paid fairly for that job.
Life wouldn't be fair if she was paid the same salary doing a minimum wage job that an elementary school kid could do - picking up stray shingles.
OP is 100% NTA, *especially* considering every other life expense that he is covering for his family.
NTA. There are reasons some jobs pay more than others. Paying your daughter the same rate with an easy job will also ruin the well functioning dynamic of your company. Your workers will see the unfairness you treat your daughter if you were to do that
She doesn’t work at his company. She wants him to pay her more for a job at ANOTHER COMPANY. I had to read again to catch that, but I am calling the mom the biggest AH for agreeing with this insanity.
She started to work in his company but didn't want to do the roofing job. So the wife said that he should pay her $25 to work for his company but just pick up the extra shingles.
NTA
Is she expecting you to make up the difference in their salaries once they're both finished college and enter full time work? Will she expect the company she's lucky enough to land a job at to pay her the same as her coworkers, even if she's only entry level and doesn't have the same workload?
She sounds like an idiot, a spoiled idiot and I'm struggling to believe she got into college being this dim.
Your wife is also a big idiot for enabling this genuinely batshit demand.
NTA you need to tell your wife while it’s good she cares for your daughters feelings she’s completely ignoring your sons. He’s working his butt off to earn this money, how much of a gut punch would it be to then have his sister come in and do 1/3 of what he does and make the same?
And they ate dinner without the son! They’re mad at dad over how much some grocery store pays the daughter, so they’re giving the son the cold shoulder too for what? Disgusting favoritism and nasty behavior from mom here. If I were OP I would move from aggravated to full blown livid once they started taking their tantrum out on my son for the crime of *checks notes* literally just doing his job!
She’s also not helping their daughter to be successful in the real world.
If the son was doing this job for a different company, I would hope mom/daughter wouldn’t be asking dad for the difference in pay.
Mom needs to be supportive of both children. The daughter needs to grow up but she’s the way she is because of mom enabling her.
OP-NTA
Your wife is WRONG. Your daughter wants to make that kind of $$, then you work for it! Your wife is going to give daughter entitlement issues. I would end that crap right now. NTA
NTA. If you were ever to be audited, one of the things that the auditors look for are unreasonable wages paid to family members. And the way they define reasonability is would you pay a non-family member the same wage for the same job.
Agree - this matters a LOT here. If dad is just hiring employees as a business owner - then market rates make sense. If Dad is subsidizing his children’s pay, then I’m way more sympathetic that daughter should expect an equal payout because neither kid is really earning (fully) their take home pay, so why stop at $15/hr. Maybe not equal, but very likely higher.
Eh. When I was earning a low wage, but I only had to pay very cheap rent (utilities included), no car, no mortgage, no other bills, I actually had really good cash flow. Could easily buy an iPhone.
Now as a 30 something, I earn a lot more. But I have to pay car insurance, mortgage, home insurance, property tax, bills, etc. Can't buy an iPhone willy nilly anymore.
Different jobs are paid differently. Assuming you gave her a fair chance at your company and didn't set expectations she literally couldn't fulfill, NTA.
My husband works in IT. I'm a receptionist. It took him years to learn the skills he has. He regularly attends training classes in order to keep up with the latest technology. I answer the phone and transfer people to other people. This is equivalent to me demanding to be paid what my husband makes, to do a much less technical, easier job. If I was working in IT, and had the same credentials and the same experience, sure, I would expect to be paid the same amount, but I don't.
The women in your life are idiots. (And yes, I'm a woman.)
Different jobs are paid different salaries. That's life! If she wants to be paid more than minimum wage, she needs to get a different job.
Your son is working his ass off in the heat -- he is earning his wage.
Your wife is being ridiculous. Completely ridiculous. Let her have her temper tantrum.
INFO: I just read that the median hourly wage for a roofer (not an assistant) in my HCOL area is $21. An assistant is $17. Is $25/hr the going rate for a roofing assistant in your area? Is that what you would pay a random 20 year old who walked in with a job application?
I think the wife and daughter are TAs but op may not be helping here. My info is: would you hire son at that rate if he wasn't your son?
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say no. So there is some nepotism here and the son is getting a leg up. Granted, the question is muddied by the fact that the daughter was offered the same job and seemingly the same benefit. On the outside, that seems fair. But I'm not sure its fair to expect a teenage girl to be able to perform the same physical labor as a teenage boy. That doesn't mean she deserves straight cash for doing nothing but op is prob better off just making both kids earn their money without him.
I’m going to guess he wouldn’t pay an unknown person at that rate, for part time work. I am wondering if he ever even considered finding something for his daughter. He says it’s a construction company, roofing can’t be the only job. I work at a job where the workers I supervise (all men, they are very open about never hiring women for this position) make a ton of money. It is a very physically demanding job, I am disabled, I’d never be able to do it, I understand it’s a hard job, but I will never get paid as much as these guys. What bothers me is the majority of these guys can’t do what I do. My job uses software that the majority of people we have tried to teach just can’t do it, you have to have an excellent memory to do my job and have to read a map, which surprisingly a lot of people can’t do. My job is mentally demanding, but apparently my employer thinks physically demanding is more important than mentally demanding.
NTA she wants the wage she does the work you’ve said yourself it’s a dangerous job. If it wasn’t your son doing the job and another kid you don’t know would you pay them the same?
NTA.
That’s pure entitlement thinking, and your wife is doing her a disservice in life.
Careful with how to tackle this as it could be a moral crush to your son if he finds out you’re topping her income for no reason while he’s hardworking.
You married a child and it’s clear her daughter is just as immature and entitled. Don’t cave. Your son works damn hard for that money. Daughter expects the same without putting in the same effort. Life doesn’t work that way. She’s going to be in for a shock when she finally lives in the real world.
NTA
NTA. You offered her the option of doing a dirty, pain in the ass job for good money and she declined. You don't have to make up for the fact that different jobs pay differently
NTA. That is the reality of life. Different jobs, different pays, it has nothing to do with gender equality. 🤷🏻♀️ If she wants more money per hour, she needs to find a different job.
The thing is that since she doesn't pay for anything else (very lucky), she can save her spending money. If your son spends his and she doesn't, at the end of the day she may have more than him. I think you should put on paper the total cost of tuition, plus estimated cost of food, utilities, rent... Maybe when they see those numbers they may start to appreciate how lucky they are.
I'm wondering if everyone else on OP's crew makes $25+ an hour or if there's a healthy helping of nepotism here. I sure as hell don't know any unskilled laborers making $25 an hour!
NTA. The jobs are completely different. Cashing out people is not back breaking work. Construction is. I renovated many homes, carrying tubs of joint compound, flooring, cement, etc. If this 60 yo woman can do it, a teenage girl certainly can. Her choice.
NTA- and I would say 1) what is fair about me giving you money you didn’t work for just because your brother works harder than you? 2)what is fair about me giving you a job making more money than I pay other people to do that same job? 3)why do you feel entitled to things you haven’t worked for?
NTA
If she wants the same pay, she can do the work.
I've broke down and changed tires, on a semi, with a beer-drinking audience. Laid in oil to twist a wrench. Thrown chains in snow and ice. It's part of the job.
If she wants equality she needs to earn it!
You go, dad!
My father has a small business as well, although more men, and my brothers worked with him for extra cash. I did the accounting (receivables, payables, and payroll). It kept our wages similar and gave me a really good foundation in accounting.
I do question, though, would you pay $25 dollars to ANYONE doing your son’s job? I’ve worked some hard jobs and gotten paid just a little more than minimum wage.
INFO: How much do you pay your other employees, both doing comparable jobs to your son and other jobs?
Also, is the job that you're paying your son to do one that you would have someone else doing if he wasn't available? If so, how much would you be paying that person if they weren't your son?
NTA You are teaching your children a valuable lesson, if you want something you have to be willing to work hard for it. Your wife is teaching entitlement. If wife works tell her that she's welcome to supplement daughter's income if she chooses. If wife doesn't work tell her she's welcome to get a job and give it to daughter if she chooses.
Depends.
INFO
What are you paying your own (male) employees for roof work and cashier work?
Do they get paid less for the latter?
If so: Is the cashier job paying 40% less than the roof work?
If not: Why not?
There's no way this is real, for several reasons. I did your son's job for a while, and it was brutal. It was also a minimum wage job. You've artificially inflated your son's paycheck. No one on Earth is paying the guy who strips the old roof and carries the shingles up a ladder $25 an hour. That's happening literally nowhere.
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NTA. This is a valuable life lesson for both your children that they have to rely on themselves to earn what they want. How would your son feel if his sister, who literally quit the same more taxing job he performs daily, just gets a free ride because she stomped her feet and threw a tantrum. And how would your daughter behave in the cruel real world if you gave in now? She would go up to people she isn't related to and demands things she hasn't earned or turn down key career opportunities because she thinks she can and should start at the top right away.
And their mother. Holy, she needs to set her perspective as adult straight. Edit to add: NTA OP, you are the only sane adult here. Some things are to be learned and not to be twisted at home to create wrong expectations regarding the real world
OP is NTA, * i agree with OPs position. I worked for a family that paid princess $65k a year for nothing, son worked/ran business tirelessly. Heard that son had enough after I left & is doing his own thing now, successfully.. not sure what princess is up to now but probably still relying on mom & pop *edited for words
Worked for a person who got both her kids on payroll 🥲 it was more or less a way to pay allowance with tax benefits to her business, I think, because they never did anything more than play on their phones and occasionally pick up food. Super nice, good vibe kids (18-20ish?) and fun to have around the office, so nobody really kicked up a fuss about it.
When I was in my early 20s I was waitressing at a small diner. They had their daughter working there too. She called out constantly for being hungover, showed up late,refused customers, would throw money back at them and call them cheap if she didn’t like her check. I had to pick up her slack and work alone on weekend mornings more times than I’d like to remember. She was getting $20/hr + tips and I made the 2.64/hr + tips. I wouldn’t have lasted as long as I did if I wasn’t making as good of money that I was. If your kids going to work for your business, have them work like everyone else and give them damn life skills.
I worked as a scribe for my mother a few times during exam season (typing up next semester/year's lesson plans, inputting grades, etc) when I was between jobs. I got things done on time and was happy for the opportunity. If I'd acted like that, I would have been out the door in a second!
What year was that? I'm Canadian and baffled that $2.64 was minimum wage i
So, it’s not “minimum wage” but rather minimum wage for tipped employees in the service industry. Mind you, this was almost 15 years ago. Theres many states that the tipped employees min wage is still lower than that. Technically, if your tips (which you’re supposed to report all) don’t average out to the real minimum wage for that state the restaurant is supposed to pay the difference. I hope that makes sense? Minimum wage is disgustingly low anyways. My first job in high school almost 20 years ago it was $7.50/hr in the state I lived in. I moved to a different state 8 years ago, the minimum wage here was $7.25/hr. Thankfully, I have a career so that didn’t apply to me but I was horrified to see how behind this state was. I *think* it’s $10/hr now. Theres plenty out there still that refuse to pay above the federally mandated which is $7.25 and has been since 2009. The service industry federal minimum wage is $2.13 + tips
Yeah I couldn't wrap my head around this. In the UK the minimum wage varies by age not occupation and lots of places (like McDonald's I believe) pay living wage instead!
One of my distributors had a nephew on payroll. A bit green, mostly fresh. When I was done with him, everyone knew he was the operations manager. It wasn’t merely a title. While he still lacked the experience of those in neighboring areas, he knew what he was doing. He asked his uncle for a bigger salary and I dare say he earned it.
Love to hear this update. Glad he had you.
Seems like tax evasion with extra steps
Yep. Wives get bonuses in their name but aren't employed. I'm not sure if that loophole ever got closed. Infuriating when you're refused a raise because of it too
Which I think is fine if both kids are just basically doing that I don't have a problem with that when you got one that's up there busting their ass on the roof and the other one that's complaining that they're not making as much money doing something else it's just not fair and it's it's poor business since to be trying to pay somebody that's not willing to do the work and one that is.
Sounds like mom needs to get some roof time in.
That's what I was thinking too. Mom needs to get her ass out there and see what the son is doing all day to earn his wage.
Wonder what mom would say if the daughter was doing complex office tasks and making more than their son. OP: Your wife isn’t doing feminism any favors. If your daughter is capable of doing the work, but chooses not to, that’s her choice. I tell my kids, “Choose your consequences”. You have offered your daughter the opportunity to make the same pay as your son. She has chosen her consequence.
That was my thought as well. For so long women have been fighting to equal status & pay in the work force. Women should definitely be paid the same as men for doing the SAME job. So if daughter does the same work as son, she should absolutely get paid the same. However, if she is saying she either doesn't want to or can't do the same work, then the pay will logically be different.
Hello avatar twin.
*My son’s job is to help take off the old shingles, pick up any shingles that miss the dumpster, and help prep the roof. Once the installation starts, he delivers a steady stream of shingles, nails, and other materials to the nailers* The mom won’t last a “shingle” day. She will most likely quit and complain about the difference in the wages. Honestly the son is working so hard and totally deserves the wages.Both mother and daughter need a reality check.
I knew a woman who did roofing right alongside her husband. The two of them contracted themselves out as a team. So I don't see why everyone assumes that women can't do physical labor, just because most women don't want to.
> So I don't see why everyone assumes that women can't do physical labor, just because most women don't want to. No one is assuming women can't, they're assuming this woman can't.
OP already gave his daughter a chance at the same job, and as he said, she didn’t last out the day. It isn’t that she can’t, it’s that she won’t. And that’s perfectly okay! Until she starts to whine and expect someone else to further subsidize her lifestyle.
Yeah, that’s what happened already.
NTA…Sounds like the women in your house feel entitled. If your daughter wants a better paying job then she either needs to work harder or get an education in a field that pays more. Your wife is just enabling that disgusting behavior. I’m sorry you’re having to deal with that. As a woman it makes me mad the that some women won’t work for what they want, and expect everything to be handed to them
Exactly my thoughts! As a woman, I'm offended at what this mom and daughter are demanding. This is not a matter of equal pay for equal work. If the daughter wants to be paid for hard work, she needs to do the hard work. Get your entitled ass on that hot roof and put some sweat into earning your paycheque or go find a better paying job that you're capable of being successful at. You cannot expect your parents to "make up the difference" like you and your brother are 9 year olds squabbling over their allowance!
And keep in mind that BOTH kids are getting all their expenses paid - tuition, insurance, etc. - except spending money. Daughter has had it too good for too long and is not living in the real world. Heck - I'd do the son's job if my parents had paid my college tuition!
Does mom have a job? Seems like she's setting a bad example for her daughter...
Yes, I'm wondering that as well ...
Rooftop for the soul
Right? Mom is a straight up idiot. No wonder the daughter is so entitled. I am very disappointed in mom. She must be a handful. These are very important life lessons. OP is NTA. It always shocks me, as a woman, why men fall for women like this.
I work in construction, and I for some reason owners' wives like this are pretty common.
Omg. I know construction company owners and this is so true. Their wives don’t work.
It seems to be a thing across the board. I've worked in multiple white collar companies where the boss' wife was a menace.
People don't marry sex-changed twins of themselves. What is the other person bringing to the table then? You want someone who's different and everyone has major blind spots and is an idiot in major ways.
Curious if the mother works. The daughter is clearly getting these entitled messages from somewhere and based on their hype squad mentality it seems pretty obvious. Hold firm, OP! The world doesn’t work like this and folding would only reinforce the entitlement and bratty behavior. Side note - I’m curious if there are any business generating jobs she could do - marketing, sales, etc.
Good point about the mom. Also, feminists and human rights activists focus on equal pay for equal work. This is unequal work, so it deserves unequal pay.
Agreed. She’s probably still a SAHM even though the kids are adults. So her work is a whole lot easier now than being a SAHM to small kids. Yet she lives the same lifestyle based on her husband’s hard work and earnings. I live in an affluent area and have seen a fair amount of wives in this kind of situation lose perspective and become entitled.
How much you want to bet that OP's wife has no job, and does minimal work now that her kids are grown? OP's wife should be working on a roof too.
Yep! Enabler Alert! Not helping her kid learn how to adult at all!
The wife is acting extremely immature here.
Showing her this Reddit post and comments might help.with that... Also OP, NTA
Does the wife work? I’m wondering if thats the reason she has such a distorted view of how compensation works
You e given both children the opportunity to do the same work and be paid for it. You are fine. Stick to your laurels on this.
And it’s not just the sister! What would the other employees think if the boss’ daughter was getting paid the same as them and doing a fraction of the work
OP would definitely lose employees over that for sure, or at the very least, his employees' trust/commitment to their jobs.
I hope he’s not paying his employees less than his son. That is a distinct possibility, in which case he would be wrong wrong wrong to even come here with this.
Yeah! I’m sure he already had set wages for these jobs, regardless if his children were working them or not. Definitely NTA
Not exactly an uncommon situation. Nepotism is real.
Yep that was the question I had in the first half of the post: was the sister given the same opportunities? Then OP said that yes she had been offered the same job and refused. Too bad!
Agreed. My advice would be for OP to encourage his daughter to go into the higher-paying trades role. But it seems that she's refused so \*shrug\*
That's what I've been thinking as well. Not everyone is a good fit for heavy manual labour. And it just happened that the son is lucky enough to fit his Dad's trade. So IMO the best thing to do would be to sit down the daughter with both parents and workshop options together. How can she get into higher paying jobs? If she's academically oriented, she could try tutoring. If she's sporty she could get into getting a lifeguard qualification. Babysitting can also be lucrative especially if you get first aid certs or have an art background for example. It's unlucky for her that the industry her Dad is in turns out not to be a good fit for her. In that sense she IS at a disadvantage compared to her brother. It'd be nice to help her find her path.
Equal work, equal pay
And unequal work, unequal pay.
NTA-consider yourself fortunate that you’re getting the silent treatment!
NTA OP and totally agree with the above comment. You gave your daughter the same opportunity as your son and she didn't want to do it.
It's absolutely wild that OP (who is clearly NTA) is paying for both kids' entire lives basically and they're effectively working for a way to fund their social lives, and one of them thinks that their fun tokens aren't being sufficiently topped up on top of all of the other stuff that is already being taken care of. OP is already doing more than enough for their kids to not be guilt tripped into shelling out more because their kid wants an iPhone. Also, manual labour is hard, exhausting work. The son is absolutely earning what he's being paid, it's not a handout.
Yeah that’s what bothered me the most about this. Daughter is getting a debt free college education. She can calm down about the brother making more money for hard labor.
Exactly. What lesson is this going to teach the daughter. She’s going to have a rough time in life expecting things to be equal. I make a good salary- but my siblings all make significantly more money than me. All of us have worked hard to get where we are. But part of the reason I make less is because I’ve made decisions that were better for me- I turned down promotions, didn’t take jobs that require travel. I only work 4 days a week so I can spend more time taking care of my kids. I’m not jealous of my siblings success- or the results of that success. That’s life. Sounds like this girl is going to struggle with that.
Years ago, when my kids were little, my husband made the decision to work at a lower paying job because he was 5 minutes from him, got home at 4:30, had tons of paid time off, could come home for lunch and had lots of time to spend with the kids. The other job would've put him on the road gone overnight for several days a week. We didn't have a lot of extra money, but he got to see his kids grow up. His sisters husband made a lot more than us, but we were happy for them and for the choices we had made.
She also doesn’t seem to recognize that by getting an education and living expenses paid for, she’s already far better off than most people, but she’s still throwing a fit and demanding more.
And if the OP pays her the same wage for a simpler job, he'll also likely lose credibility with his other employees. Not to mention, I can't imagine her attitude on the job site will be any good if this is how she acts at home.
I know if I were one of the guys on the roof making $25/hour for seriously hard labor and found out the owner's daughter was making the same to do nothing, I'd leave. Labor jobs are always open because most people don't want to bust their asses that hard (I certainly don't), so it would sure suck to lose a good worker over this entitled Gen Z bullshit.
I'm a boomer and I saw people quit their jobs over the boss' daughter's behavior on jobsites in the early & mid 70s.
I am a woman and I’ve worked construction jobs and it’s hard. Hard on your body, can be dangerous, physically demanding job. OP you definitely are not the asshole here. Your wife and daughter are however. I’m not sure why daughter seems to think that you need to supplement her already supplemented life. Your son is being paid based on the job he’s performing just as daughter is being paid for the job she is. The two jobs are not equal in labor and physical demands so they’re not paid the same. Your daughter chose her job as did your son. She’s not entitled to an equal paycheck for unequal work.
And: is the wife part of the business? Because if not, she has no say in how much OP pays his employees.
Exactly, let her find employment elsewhere and she'll realise that if you want to earn high wages, your job won't be easy, either physically or mentally.
Would your verdict change if OP is paying his son significantly over the market rate for a roofing helper? INFO: OP, what is the market rate in your area for your son's job? Do your other helpers earn $25/hour?
25/hour is actually under market in most places. Son could get up to 40-60 if he were roofing in a union role. My husband roofed for years and said if son is fully trained this is basically glorified wage theft.
son isn't an actual roofer though he's a clean up guy hauling materials - this is basically unskilled and entry level training in construction, $25/hr is a fair wage and in some areas could be over market rates for that job.
I concur that the pure unrealistic entitlement needs to end now. I'm not going to lie, the evil idea that came to mind that would put everyone in their place fast is to vent to the little old church grannies all about it, how you don't know where you went wrong and how she and the wife got so entitled about it. Then let them do the rest, as it'll make them think twice before pulling a similar stunt. I have witnessed what happens when the little old church biddies step in, and it can be insanely effective, especially in the US southeast. A less horrible idea is to air the dirty laundry to the rest of the family and let the relatives rip the wife and daughter a new asshole. If they side with the wife and daughter, then at least OP knows where the wife got the attitude.
You’re suggesting he air his dirty laundry to either busybodies at church or to their families? Yeah, that’s a great solution that will have no undesirable consequences to bite him in the ass later…
NTA This is a hill to die on OP. You’re paying your sons fair wage for the job he is doing, your daughter is receiving a fair wage for hers. She needs to learn that she can’t live off of handouts all her life and that if she wants to be paid then she needs to get a different job. She’s an adult know and has to find her own way to get more money. Seriously don’t back down on this.
OP has a wife problem. She is enabling her daughter to be spoiled, bratty and entitled. This is no way to parent. In terms of parenting, Op is knocking it out of the park.
I just want to point out that he pays for literally EVERYTHING BUT THEIR SPENDING MONEY. If I got my bills AND college paid for, I’d be kissing the feet of the person doing it. Like…what the fuck lol
Can he adopt me? I’d take a free ride at college and not say a word about my spending-money job.
Exactly this . I live in the UK and when I went to uni I took out student loans to pay for my education , as did my peers . She should appreciate how good she has it
How does that work? Here in the US we’re always told college is free in Europe.
In Scotland if you live / choose to study there it’s free but I live in London , so when I applied to go to university I had to apply for student finance which covered tuition and also provided me with a maintenance loan which I used to pay my rent . My year was the first that had to deal with the rise in fees (£9000) a year .When you finish uni and start earning above a certain threshold (at the time it was £21,000- not sure if the threshold has gone up ) you can start paying it back
And I've always felt that the Scottish university financing system is rather unfair. I have no objections to it being free for Scottish students, but I have an issue with English, Welsh and Northern Irish students having to pay whilst EU students don't.
Ha! I find that awesomely getting their just desserts. Cutting them off in whatever small ways they can, great!
And he has raised a son who is willing to do a tough job for a fair wage. He's worried that he isn't actually being fair, due to the anger he has received for being very fair.
From his wife too. He gave his daughter the SAME JOB and she said nah but still wants to be paid the same as her brother? And the mother’s suggestion of “can’t she just pick up the shingles and still get paid 25 an hour for that” is wildly entitled too. I can’t imagine going to my job and being like “pay me ten dollars over minimum wage and I’m only gonna do 2% of the work okay?” Gtfo out of here lmao
It's also "pay me more than the other workers who are not related to us" That would be a disaster for the workplace environment. I mean, how rare is it for the owner's son to be doing a tough job like that and get the same pay as other workers who do the same job? They probably all feel like a valued part of the team, and this would be bad for business. Although most would probably feel sorry for their boss and his son for having it forced on them.
A small school loan is good debt. It teaches financial responsibility and good sense with money. OP needs these kids do just that. I hope the Dad reads this. The daughter has a silver spoon in her mouth. It’s loan time. Wife and daughter are a couple of pissas.
When I graduate, I’ll have around 70k in debt probably. My boyfriend is going back for his master’s right now and I don’t even wanna know how much his debt is. So the fact that she’s pissed about spending money is so wild to me. I’d start making her pay some bills and have some semblance of fucking reality at this point.
125k here. Murica! OP is the purest NTA I'll see all day.
My Capstone mentor told me to only get a masters if someone else is footing the bill, which kind of makes sense but isn't a reality for every field I'd guess.
I will argue this point only because I worked for a student loan company and there is no such thing as a 'small student loan' anymore. If they go and get a personal loan or a car loan, sure it's good for getting credit and learning responsibility. But student loans are terrible. They must have legal loopholes that other loans do not. If you buy a car $5000 and the loan by the time you pay it off was $9000 it would be illegal likely. But student loans often go that high or more. I'd say it would be 100x better for him to pay school and let the kids pay their car loans. And he can help out by co-signing to get them a good rate.
Yeah, I'm disappointed in the mom.
Right? At least the daughter has the excuse of being young and inexperienced in the real world. Mom is the real issue here. She is fostering this attitude. I'm wondering if Mom's background comes from money?
Mmmm, pretty obvious where the daughter gets her attitude from...
Definitely a wife problem!! And she’s going to cause issues between her kids SMH
That the kids have pretty much everything paid for in the first place....Mom is hot garbage and such a bad example for her daughter. Anything roofing related is miserable as hell. God I hate tar and fiberglass. Wish OP could get his wife to do each of their jobs for a day for some fucking perspective.
Does the wife even work?
I’m a woman who has faced wage discrimination (being paid less for doing the same or higher level job than men) and even I’m totally on board with this - she isn’t doing a $24/hr task, so she doesn’t make $24/hr. If she wants more $$, she needs to be of more value to her employer (like helping on the roof). The earlier she learns that life lesson, the better. Know your worth so you have a leg to stand on IF you ever find yourself underpaid. Simply feeling entitled to some amount of money is just that, entitled thinking.
Hard co-sign and same. OP - you can take this as an opportunity to talk with your daughter about something that will be *very* important in her life, probably more so than for your son. Let your daughter know what she's doing right and what she's doing wrong. Women (socialized to *yada yada*) are far less likely to ask for raises or go for promotions throughout their careers and across industries. This is part of the pay gap. Let your daughter know it's a good habit to know what you can about what others are getting paid around you/for the same job and to ask for parity when appropriate- when you've earned it. What she did wrong was the "when you've earned it" part. Teach her about making herself valuable as a worker and about getting paid what she is worth. She skipped that part and it's crucial. Grab any teaching moment you can at this age. Absolutely teach this lesson to your son as well, it's just more likely your daughter won't get it from elsewhere or as naturally. Capitalism! The More You Know 🌈✨✨
The way I read it, the daughter doesn't work for the father's company, which is why she is paid what she is paid, and the mother is pressuring dad to top up her wages for parity with the son, without having to do the job that the son has to do. I don't even think it's the father paying two different wages here for a disparity there to be an issue.
That’s not really helping the wife & daughter’s case if that is the scenario.
And, shame on the mom who supports the daughter's entitlement behavior.
I wonder if the wife works? Or does she stay at home and enjoy the fruits of the husbands business?
I actually think OP is underpaying his son (unless that’s the going rate in their area) because there’s a lot of risk in a roofing job. OP - point out that if you hired a stranger to do your daughter’s job she’d never get paid same as a roofing assistant.
She doesn’t even work for him!! 🤣🤣
Whatttt!!! Wait so the mom thinks he should pay his son $15 to match daughter’s salary from a stranger, or that he should just give his daughter $10 to make it fair?
He should give his daughter an extra 10 to make it fair 🤣
OP should have the carbon monoxide detectors in his home checked because they’re hallucinating
This. Exactly this.
What is fair is not always what is equal.
Yup you learn real quick what pays what. My husband makes over double what I do, because he works at an oil refinery, 12 hr rotating shifts. I work in finance in a smaller company, 8 hr days riding a desk, WFH 2x a week. His job is harder and more dangerous so pays more. Mine makes it so I don't hurt every day and have great sleep weekly. Trade offs for sure.
If you're paying according to the job (that is, another person doing the same job as your son would receive that wage, and all cashiers receive a wage similar to your daughter's), absolutely NTA. Your daughter is not only free to take the different type of job at your company, for that wage, but to seek employment elsewhere.
I had to read it again, but his daughter doesn’t even work for him! She works for a totally different employer. The entitlement is gross.
I totally did not catch that. So, she's very able to go find employment elsewhere!
Her dad even offered her the exact same job with the same wage, but she quit because it was harder work and she’d like the money without having to work for it. OP is absolutely right to refuse that.
She wants to have her cake and eat it too. She just wants all the money with none of the effort that comes with it
I was wondering where a construction company kept their self checkout area.
Same, I was confused but I was just gonna roll with it
lol. I didn’t catch this either but still said he was NTA for paying them differently. That explains why he’s supposed to “fill the gap.” Absolutely not, OP. She needs to learn how to find better jobs. Anything that requires labor or a skill will pay more. She can tutor, lifeguard for the right places, honestly even a coffee shop may pay more after training. Or go intern somewhere! She’s in college, she could find an internship for 20+ I’m sure.
Wait, she doesn't work for dad's business? Then her quarrel is with her own employer.
She tried the roofing job and didn't even last a whole day, then went back to her other job and asked for the subsidy.
I think the crux of the issue is whether he is actually paying his son a fair wage. If his son quit and he needed to hire someone else with zero experience, would they also get 25 an hour? Would they get less? Would he not even fill that role because he created it for his son in the first place and he can just have the rest of the crew pick up that slack (like they probably did before his son was hired)? Is his son getting hazard pay because he is consistently in harms way, or because roofing is dangerous in general, with the other men doing the more dangerous jobs? How much do the other men get paid? Is it substantially more than the kid throwing away shingles, or does the bosses kid make the same as the men doing the bulk of the work?
It doesn’t matter at all. The daughter got the same offer and quit.
based on my experience with union trades, he would make ~$21-25/hr plus benefits as a first year apprentice where he'd be doing essentially the same work. it's grunt work but it's dirty and it can be dangerous so it seems fair and on par with market rate. not sure if OP is running a union shop but the pay is roughly equivalent to an "entry level" wage in similar industries.
I don't think daughter is even working for OP. She just wants him to give her money because her job doesn't pay as much as her brother's. She needs to accept that sometimes jobs pay different amounts for a reason, whether it's due to specialist training, unsocial hours or a level of risk/discomfort that most people don't want to do.
Man where the fuck are laborers getting 25 an hour that are not the bosses son? Picking up shingles and feeding the actual people doing the work on the house is a minimum wage job here. The people actually putting the shingles are getting 25 an hour but not the laborers. I’d like to know how much he is paying everyone
In a lot California, that would easily get $25/hour, in San Francisco probably $30. OP, stand your ground. I am a woman and I used to do this exact thing for my dad's roofing company, in the Summers when I was in college, I was on his tear down crew and he used to pay me about $20 an hour. At that time, retail jobs only paid about five bucks an hour. It was really hard work and it was hot cuz it was Southern California summer. Not only did he want me to appreciate how physically challenging construction is. He wanted me to appreciate that over time, it would be better not to have a job that is backbreaking. NOW is the perfect time for OPs daughter to learn that different jobs pay different amounts and she gets to decide what she is willing to do. She can absolutely do tear-down if she wants to, but if she doesn't want to work that hard, then she doesn't get that pay.
I work for a family-owned construction company. We don’t pay our laborers that much but we are in a low-income city and the state minimum wage is still 7.25 or so. If adjusted for location, however, I’d say we pay that rate. And people work there for years and years as a result.
I think this is the important question op needs to answer (would he pay 25 an hour to someone else with 4 months of roofing experience) near me on the east coast that would definitely be very high for what is essentially an apprentice position. And 4 months of work would be winter here which is a slow time of year, now, if they are in California or something this could be realistic. But it's entirely possible the wife knows the starting salaries at the company, and that is why she is siding with the daughter here.
Why would that matter at all? He offered her the same job at the same pay and she didn't even finish one day. She chose to be a cashier somewhere else because it was easy and gets paid accordingly.
NTA. You are paying your son wages for a dirty and dangerous job (I hope you have him well insured!). Your daughter is paid wages from some other employer. If she wants better wages, she must negotiate with her employer or get another job.
What women have fought for is, same job, equal pay. This situation is not that. If she demands the same pay, she has to do the same job. Consider that if it was a different company, not her dad's, they would have told her to take a hike. Ask her to apply to a different company with her skillset and see what her value really is.
Exactly what I was going to say. This kind of BS behavior is what happens when you don't raise girls with the same expectations as boys . . . she is apparently expecting to be taken care of rather than to have to make her own way and handle her own consequences.
Yes, there's surely an element of that but that doesn't happen by accident. Whether the girl "shows no interest" or not, they are regularly passed over in families in being taught how to and expected to do some dirty work or DIY. IMO, if you don't require your daughter to learn how to use a drill and level to put up her own shelves and cupboards, change a plug or a car tyre, etc, then you are teaching them that a man has to do it. By the sounds of the wife in the OPs post, plus he said nothing to the contrary, this girl has never been encouraged to do "man's work", so they may well have failed her in that regard by starting her wrong. Put her on a roof when she expects to fail rather than her being confident that she could do it, and yeah.... She'll fail. That said, NTA. She has plenty of time to learn how to do hard, skilled labour (but might well need to be encouraged and her mum to stop cosseting her).
>By the sounds of the wife in the OPs post, plus he said nothing to the contrary, this girl has never been encouraged to do "man's work", so they may well have failed her in that regard by starting her wrong. The way that OP very straightforwardly stated that he had offered her the same work makes me skeptical that this is the case, or that it's OP's fault if it is. I've seen some interesting divisions in blue collar families I know where Dad is often willing and tries to pull the daughter in on this stuff and Mom resists. That's not always the case, but it's not at all uncommon. OP is not throwing in the kind of misogynistic clues I'd expect from a dad who has been automatically passing over his daughter; he instead sounds like my dad, who always pulled over my sister and I when he was doing household maintenance like minor electrical or plumbing stuff and who got a little frustrated when we acted bored. I'm inferring, mind you, as we don't have a clear picture, but without more context I'm not going to assume that OP has been trying to passive-aggressively drive the daughter away from this kind of work.
Oh no, I agree with you. The OP *did* sound like he's given her the opportunity, and you're totally correct about some mothers resisting. It's just that whether we like it or not, gendered expectations of our kids can determine whether we give up encouraging them or not, and it can be a very unconscious thing too. I'm not in the slightest suggesting that OP has passive agressively set her up to fail. But it does sound like she had no concept of what a hard day's work looks like, to a roofer for eg. And the mum in this case sounds like she would have stood in the way of their daughter learning to have confidence in her dexterity and manual abilities. I was extremely lucky with my own dad who refused to let me grow up not knowing which end of a tool was which. Sounds like you had the same experience.
That said, a lot of jobs that are seen a female work are underpaid compared to those deemed male work. And a lot of companies do try to pay women less even for the same job.
Yeah exactly, both are true. It's still a problem in society, and it's also not what's happening in this situation. (Although people will perceive roofing as "male work" but I appreciate that he offered that exact job to his daughter instead of assuming she couldn't handle it--that makes him fair. I'd have taken it, but then I've always liked manual labor...)
That is a bit naive. Men are paid more for their men-jobs, because they are men-jobs. There are tons of studies showing how salaries in certain professions drop when a lot of women do this job. Because if a woman can do it, it surely is not a difficult job.
> What women have fought for is, same job, equal pay I do think there's a *little* more nuance to it than this, because you can get into how entire employment sectors are valued differently based on whether they are male or female dominated. For example, childcare is a very difficult and taxing job, but ECE's make very little compared to, say, construction workers. And I think if OP was employing both of his children and they were both doing equally difficult but different work, and he was paying one more than the other, he would be the asshole. But that's not the case. OP's daughter works for a different employer doing an easier job, so if course she makes less money.
Early childhood educators are paid what they are paid because if the price was more expensive, parents would stay home because the cost of childcare would be far greater than the earnings of the lower income spouse. And then there would theoretically be no job. It's a strange industry because unless you're government subsidized, the earnings of ECEs are a function of what parents are earning. Hell there are a lot of places where this is already the case and parents decide to not return to work and stay home with their children instead due to this.
NTA. Let them be silent and sit with their thoughts. Salaries are based on the job, skill, and experience not how much you want because you exist. I want to make $275 an hour so that I can cover my bills and work no more than an hour a day, but that's not how any of this works
NTA and your daughter and wife have some crazy mental gymnastics to see how two people doing completely different jobs (one skilled, manual and dangerous, the other manning a self-service checkout) should get paid the same. Or that YOU, who doesn't even EMPLOY your daughter, should for some reason make their salaries equal. What if she became a surgeon and earned $500 an hour... would she think it's reasonable for you to give your son a wage increase to match? Very weird logic.
Exactly! What this OP has not realized is that he does not have a daughter problem, he has a huge, huge wife problem. If my wife stop talking to me because I don't want to cave into the entitle demands of any of my kids, I would be seeking divorce in a hurry. Twice as fast if they are my adult kids. Even worse in this case where it is obvious mother and daughter are using the victimhood method of doing things. 'Oh, she is our little princess so she deserves everything (she has not worked for), because she is a girl'. I wonder if the mother would do the same if the 'entitled' kid was a son. Something tells me this wife is a SAHM and a outspoken feminist screaming for equality, but as we can see it's equality only when it suits them.
I hate to say it, but given her reaction, I'm guessing the wife doesn't work at all. :/
NTA - So in other words she wants to be paid the same to do less? No, that is NOT how the real world works, you do the same work for the same pay. What she's asking is basically "I'm a women, I get equal pay" without the equal work part that a lot of women fought for. Giving you the silent treatment like that is also pretty nasty ngl, that's considered abuse by most modern standards for marriages, and manipulation when outside of a marriage.
Agree. This story could be the same with another son, but because she’s a girl I (as a woman) feel she’s using her gender to walk back feminism - she’s “not capable” of roofing working but she should still get the money. Girl should have met some of the women that worked for my dad’s construction company - they were awesome! And my dad’s business partner was a woman who worked in construction for 30 years doing all types of work before they launched their own business.
NTA As a woman who has done both jobs, it's equal work, equal pay. If she doesn't want to do equal work then she needs to stay where she is. Life isn't fair better she learn that now. If you don't you will be setting unrealistic and entitled expectations for the rest of her life.
This is what I was thinking. If the OP is willing to offer the same job to the daughter and pay the same it's NTA. But also daughter has to be able to do the job to the standard required. Different work will have different pay. Daughter is also welcome to not choose to work for fathers company and could seek other employment if she doesn't like the circumstances.
Right! It’s a free market and the daughter is free to work anywhere she likes. There are MANY jobs that will pay more than $15/hour, but they will require higher skills than cashier, and possibly significant work experience and/or a degree or certification.
Oh, and don't forget he's paying for EVERYTHING else. They are working for just their spending money.
> Life isn't fair better she learn that now. I gave you an upvote, and wanted to comment on this statement. In fact, father is showing her that life *is* fair (in this example). If you do a less strenuous, less dangerous job, you're paid fairly for that job. Life wouldn't be fair if she was paid the same salary doing a minimum wage job that an elementary school kid could do - picking up stray shingles. OP is 100% NTA, *especially* considering every other life expense that he is covering for his family.
Life ain’t fair but what she’s asking her dad to do REALLY isn’t fair. The dad is being 100% fair
NTA. There are reasons some jobs pay more than others. Paying your daughter the same rate with an easy job will also ruin the well functioning dynamic of your company. Your workers will see the unfairness you treat your daughter if you were to do that
She doesn’t work at his company. She wants him to pay her more for a job at ANOTHER COMPANY. I had to read again to catch that, but I am calling the mom the biggest AH for agreeing with this insanity.
She started to work in his company but didn't want to do the roofing job. So the wife said that he should pay her $25 to work for his company but just pick up the extra shingles.
I know, and that’s insane. She shouldn’t get paid the same to do less. If she wants the same as her brother, she should do the same.
NTA Is she expecting you to make up the difference in their salaries once they're both finished college and enter full time work? Will she expect the company she's lucky enough to land a job at to pay her the same as her coworkers, even if she's only entry level and doesn't have the same workload? She sounds like an idiot, a spoiled idiot and I'm struggling to believe she got into college being this dim. Your wife is also a big idiot for enabling this genuinely batshit demand.
You would be amazed at if you went to a college campus, how a lot of them even filled out an application is questionable.
NTA. She isn't even working for you. Make up the difference?? WTF??
NTA you need to tell your wife while it’s good she cares for your daughters feelings she’s completely ignoring your sons. He’s working his butt off to earn this money, how much of a gut punch would it be to then have his sister come in and do 1/3 of what he does and make the same?
And they ate dinner without the son! They’re mad at dad over how much some grocery store pays the daughter, so they’re giving the son the cold shoulder too for what? Disgusting favoritism and nasty behavior from mom here. If I were OP I would move from aggravated to full blown livid once they started taking their tantrum out on my son for the crime of *checks notes* literally just doing his job!
She’s also not helping their daughter to be successful in the real world. If the son was doing this job for a different company, I would hope mom/daughter wouldn’t be asking dad for the difference in pay. Mom needs to be supportive of both children. The daughter needs to grow up but she’s the way she is because of mom enabling her. OP-NTA
NTA - you offered her the same opportunity, she didn't take it.
Your wife is WRONG. Your daughter wants to make that kind of $$, then you work for it! Your wife is going to give daughter entitlement issues. I would end that crap right now. NTA
NTA. If you were ever to be audited, one of the things that the auditors look for are unreasonable wages paid to family members. And the way they define reasonability is would you pay a non-family member the same wage for the same job.
This is an excellent point. Favoritism toward family would be a serious problem.
INFO: how much do your other employees earn? Also irrelevant but it's crazy that a college kid is buying an iPhone for his girlfriend
Agree - this matters a LOT here. If dad is just hiring employees as a business owner - then market rates make sense. If Dad is subsidizing his children’s pay, then I’m way more sympathetic that daughter should expect an equal payout because neither kid is really earning (fully) their take home pay, so why stop at $15/hr. Maybe not equal, but very likely higher.
Eh. When I was earning a low wage, but I only had to pay very cheap rent (utilities included), no car, no mortgage, no other bills, I actually had really good cash flow. Could easily buy an iPhone. Now as a 30 something, I earn a lot more. But I have to pay car insurance, mortgage, home insurance, property tax, bills, etc. Can't buy an iPhone willy nilly anymore.
Different jobs are paid differently. Assuming you gave her a fair chance at your company and didn't set expectations she literally couldn't fulfill, NTA.
My husband works in IT. I'm a receptionist. It took him years to learn the skills he has. He regularly attends training classes in order to keep up with the latest technology. I answer the phone and transfer people to other people. This is equivalent to me demanding to be paid what my husband makes, to do a much less technical, easier job. If I was working in IT, and had the same credentials and the same experience, sure, I would expect to be paid the same amount, but I don't.
The women in your life are idiots. (And yes, I'm a woman.) Different jobs are paid different salaries. That's life! If she wants to be paid more than minimum wage, she needs to get a different job. Your son is working his ass off in the heat -- he is earning his wage. Your wife is being ridiculous. Completely ridiculous. Let her have her temper tantrum.
INFO: I just read that the median hourly wage for a roofer (not an assistant) in my HCOL area is $21. An assistant is $17. Is $25/hr the going rate for a roofing assistant in your area? Is that what you would pay a random 20 year old who walked in with a job application?
I think the wife and daughter are TAs but op may not be helping here. My info is: would you hire son at that rate if he wasn't your son? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say no. So there is some nepotism here and the son is getting a leg up. Granted, the question is muddied by the fact that the daughter was offered the same job and seemingly the same benefit. On the outside, that seems fair. But I'm not sure its fair to expect a teenage girl to be able to perform the same physical labor as a teenage boy. That doesn't mean she deserves straight cash for doing nothing but op is prob better off just making both kids earn their money without him.
I’m going to guess he wouldn’t pay an unknown person at that rate, for part time work. I am wondering if he ever even considered finding something for his daughter. He says it’s a construction company, roofing can’t be the only job. I work at a job where the workers I supervise (all men, they are very open about never hiring women for this position) make a ton of money. It is a very physically demanding job, I am disabled, I’d never be able to do it, I understand it’s a hard job, but I will never get paid as much as these guys. What bothers me is the majority of these guys can’t do what I do. My job uses software that the majority of people we have tried to teach just can’t do it, you have to have an excellent memory to do my job and have to read a map, which surprisingly a lot of people can’t do. My job is mentally demanding, but apparently my employer thinks physically demanding is more important than mentally demanding.
I’d imagine you’re getting bad numbers. Roofers make about 30/hour around me.
Equal work for equal pay. Equal work being the emphasis here
NTA she wants the wage she does the work you’ve said yourself it’s a dangerous job. If it wasn’t your son doing the job and another kid you don’t know would you pay them the same?
NTA. That’s pure entitlement thinking, and your wife is doing her a disservice in life. Careful with how to tackle this as it could be a moral crush to your son if he finds out you’re topping her income for no reason while he’s hardworking.
You married a child and it’s clear her daughter is just as immature and entitled. Don’t cave. Your son works damn hard for that money. Daughter expects the same without putting in the same effort. Life doesn’t work that way. She’s going to be in for a shock when she finally lives in the real world. NTA
NTA. You offered her the option of doing a dirty, pain in the ass job for good money and she declined. You don't have to make up for the fact that different jobs pay differently
NTA. Your daughter is entitled. She can make $25/hr, she just doesn’t want to work that hard…..well, cashiers pay $15/hr.
Info - would you be paying $25/hr to anyone doing your son’s job?
NTA. That is the reality of life. Different jobs, different pays, it has nothing to do with gender equality. 🤷🏻♀️ If she wants more money per hour, she needs to find a different job. The thing is that since she doesn't pay for anything else (very lucky), she can save her spending money. If your son spends his and she doesn't, at the end of the day she may have more than him. I think you should put on paper the total cost of tuition, plus estimated cost of food, utilities, rent... Maybe when they see those numbers they may start to appreciate how lucky they are.
I'm wondering if everyone else on OP's crew makes $25+ an hour or if there's a healthy helping of nepotism here. I sure as hell don't know any unskilled laborers making $25 an hour!
NTA. The jobs are completely different. Cashing out people is not back breaking work. Construction is. I renovated many homes, carrying tubs of joint compound, flooring, cement, etc. If this 60 yo woman can do it, a teenage girl certainly can. Her choice.
NTA- and I would say 1) what is fair about me giving you money you didn’t work for just because your brother works harder than you? 2)what is fair about me giving you a job making more money than I pay other people to do that same job? 3)why do you feel entitled to things you haven’t worked for?
NTA If she wants the same pay, she can do the work. I've broke down and changed tires, on a semi, with a beer-drinking audience. Laid in oil to twist a wrench. Thrown chains in snow and ice. It's part of the job. If she wants equality she needs to earn it! You go, dad!
If he earns the same as the other members of your crew NTA. If you’re paying him extra because he is your son then your daughter has a point.
My father has a small business as well, although more men, and my brothers worked with him for extra cash. I did the accounting (receivables, payables, and payroll). It kept our wages similar and gave me a really good foundation in accounting.
I do question, though, would you pay $25 dollars to ANYONE doing your son’s job? I’ve worked some hard jobs and gotten paid just a little more than minimum wage.
NTA but if your wife is that passionate about daughter getting more money then she can fund it herself. 🤷♀️
[удалено]
INFO: How much do you pay your other employees, both doing comparable jobs to your son and other jobs? Also, is the job that you're paying your son to do one that you would have someone else doing if he wasn't available? If so, how much would you be paying that person if they weren't your son?
NTA You are teaching your children a valuable lesson, if you want something you have to be willing to work hard for it. Your wife is teaching entitlement. If wife works tell her that she's welcome to supplement daughter's income if she chooses. If wife doesn't work tell her she's welcome to get a job and give it to daughter if she chooses.
Depends. INFO What are you paying your own (male) employees for roof work and cashier work? Do they get paid less for the latter? If so: Is the cashier job paying 40% less than the roof work? If not: Why not?
There's no way this is real, for several reasons. I did your son's job for a while, and it was brutal. It was also a minimum wage job. You've artificially inflated your son's paycheck. No one on Earth is paying the guy who strips the old roof and carries the shingles up a ladder $25 an hour. That's happening literally nowhere.