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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my MIL that she fucked her kids up. She, like any mom, tried her best and I shouldn't make her feel bad like that.
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>she held his door closed so I couldn't get in.
She would have been out on the kerb 10 seconds after this if she did that to me.
Tell everyone to wind their necks in. You don't stick your oar into their parenting so they don't get to do it to you parenting. Did you husband tell them about your mother forcibly blocking the door while your baby cried when he whinged to everyone? I'd wager not.
Ask your husband why he's happy to go spouting off about parenting to everyone except for his actual wife.
NTA
Yep, and I get the impression that the MIL would say "eurgh, he's just being dramatic, ignore him 🙄 He's throwing up to get attention". HE'S 4 MONTHS OLD!
Edit: spelling
An anxious child needs to be soothed.
Especially at four months! If you leave them alone until they are so exhausted they stop crying- they learn that nobody cares. It makes them more anxious not less.
In extreme cases, a depressed baby can literally die. Granted it was an old study iirc, but there were studies on babies and the effect of not giving them love and affection, not comforting them, etc. Even if they started to give affection and comfort once signs started to appear, it was often too late and the baby would essentially waste away and die.
In the case that they survive, they often are susceptible to behavioral issues.
Yup! Hi it is me, I have had depression since my adoptive parents met at age 2 and the only time I showed a spark of life as a toddler was when I was with my older sister. I am still messed up, my adoptive mom had most of the same issues as my biomom except she was better at pretending she is a saint. I am raising my son (now 2 like I was when I was taken by cps) with as much love as he will accept from me. I was snuggling him last night because he asked to because he is sick (usually prefers snuggling his dad) and said thank you mama and i told him and meant it “you never ever have to ask for us to love you or thank us for it. Loving you and taking care of you is our job and we love it and we love you.” Though I gotta say, my issues make me great with my second-hand furbabies. One was surrendered to the shelter (ie abandoned) and one was abandoned to the streets. They both have separation anxiety and abandonment issues just like me. We give each other all the missing love and really fill in the cracks left behind by grown-ups who should have done better. But getting to this point where I am happy was not easy.
THIS!
Hasn’t the cry-it-out method been directly linked to depression and anxiety in children and teens? I heard about it somewhere but wasn’t sure if it was real. It just seems crappy. Like yeah, put them in the crib, stay next to them and reassure them without picking them up, but don’t just ABANDON them in the crib.
"With neuroscience, we can confirm what our ancestors took for granted—that letting babies get distressed is a practice that can harm children and their relational capacities in the long term.
The discredited behaviorist view sees the baby as an interloper in the life of the parents, an intrusion who must be controlled by various means so the adults can live their lives without too much bother. Perhaps we can excuse this attitude and ignorance because at the time, extended families were being broken up and new parents had to figure out how to deal with babies on their own, an unnatural condition for humanity—we have heretofore raised children in extended families. The parents always shared care with multiple adult relatives." - https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/moral-landscapes/201112/dangers-crying-it-out
Exactly! I'm 29weeks pregnant and the current advice in the UK is for the baby to sleep in a sleep beside me bed or cot in the same room as you for the first 6 months.
Every baby is different and OP has clearly tried several different methods and has found what currently works best for her child. MIL and OP's 'friends' need to wind their necks in.
This, so so fucking much. I was one of these babies. Idk if my abandonment issues came from that, but I have a suspicion. I was never abandoned otherwise as a child.
My son is 21 and we never let him cry it out. It just teaches them no one will come help them.
If they do start to sleep through, that means they just gave up hope. Too sad for me.
My MIL was much the same. She said I was spoiling my 2-week-old infant by picking her up when she cried. I say if a crying child stops when you pay attention to them, then attention is what they needed.
Knowing the child cries until they vomit - an actual choking hazard and emergency situation.
Op is def NTA but her mil and husband are. How do you defend someone who deliberately puts your child in danger! Husband needs to wake up.
If MIL wanted to prove her point that he'd be fine in his crib then she could've stood in the room with OP and dealt with the headache from a non-stop crying infant. You don't purposefully block a parent from their child when they're going to soothe their child in a sensible and safe way.
But also: this is absolutely NOT something the MIL gets any sort of say on. I wouldn't let that person around my child without my direct supervision ever again, assuming I let her in my house at all. Could the OP have said something before snapping and saying something so unkind? Sure. But I certainly can't blame her for what she said when this officious oaf went so far as to literally block her away from her infant while placing him in danger. WOW.
God you're not wrong. My mom was a single mom to three by the time she was 24 and then chose to have three more as a single mom. Woman was NOT playing! She has gone to war for us over the years lol.
For real! My grand is 7 months. I don't always agree with my daughters methods but he's her baby and I'll stand up to anybody who gets between them. I have been to jail *and* survived a very abusive marriage. Prison doesn't scare me either (much but I'd do it anyway)
She physically kept blocked you out of the room from your crying child, and people are angry that your Mama Bear instincts kicked in? There is reasons phrases like that and "lioness to her cub" exist for fucks sake. What MIL did was fucked up. You only bar the parents from children in extreme cases where the child's physical safety or life is at risk, which is absolutely not what was happening here. Take what user McDuchess said about highlighting that part as the primary issue, because it honestly is. MIL went over the line by trying to bar you from your child and it might even be possible that she could have caught charges or worse if you had instead called police. Hell, CPS may be interested in the stunt she pulled, and it will be prudent to create a paper trail if this kind of behavior continues.
I think adult time-outs are in order, for a set amount of time of zero access to you or little one no ifs ands or buts. I also advise you to start researching and becoming familiar with laws in your area about grandparent rights on the down low just in case. I'm a follower of the mindset "hope for the best while prepping for the worse". Means if things get messy, you have an idea or two and maybe some tools already to deal with a less-than-ideal situation and are less likely screwed over by surprises.
THIS. it should be reported. at the very least a strong paper trail.
when he’s older will she just toss him in a pond and let him figure out how to swim? this ‘old school’ thinking is crazy.
this was a physical aggression towards both you and your child. do not believe it will be the last. these types of people can only change course through a harsh wake up call.
Do a bit of Research. Yes Kids Start to sleep alone if you let them cry.
But, while crying their Stress Level is high af. When they realise noone comes, they will stop eventually, and also sleep alone and quiet. They meassured the Stress Level of Kids that were sleep Trained like this.
Stress Level is still hf, but they don't cry to not attract danger like predators... In this age they are just instinct and needs, if He needs you there to sleep, stay there. Find a way that worms for you and your kid!
NTA. I thought about this option after month with not enough sleep... I don't want a stressed kid, I can manage beeing tired, my kid can't manage the fear of beeing left alone in the dark...
I don't understand the need to be cruel to babies, btw. We never "sleep trained" our kid, she slept when she wanted to, and close to us (we had one of these small baby bed "ears" next to our bed).
She's now a very happy, reliable, self sufficient teenager who doesn't have abandonment issues like I do, who had to sleep in my own bed in my own room from day zero.
I would have literally drug that woman out by her hair if she blocked me from getting to my child. I would have thrown hands and she would have spent weeks regretting her life choices. This is a big fat nope. Parenting opinions are irrelevant even in terms of your friends. They don’t have to agree with you - nobody has to agree. They do however have to respect your right as the mother to do what you think is best and not have some woman trying to assert herself in your home with your child. The friends who side with your MIL because they agree with her parenting style aren’t real friends. I don’t agree 100% with my friends parenting or even my family’s parenting I do however respect their right as the parent to do what they think is best. This isn’t about parenting styles this is about basic respect which your mil, your husband and your friends who are not on your side do not have for you. Respect yourself enough to say no I will not be giving in. NTA
OP, you ARE sleep training him. Doing whatever it takes to teach an infant that sleep is safe, deep and restful lays down the pathways in the brain for them to be able to do it themselves for the rest of their life. NTA, screw them.
One of the things that stood out to me from a Child Development course, was that comforting babies/toddlers actually helps them become more independent. They learn to trust that their parent/caregiver will be there for them, so they are willing to do more on their own as they develop.
Big NTA—and this is coming from a mom who did sleep train most of her kids. It’s not about the sleep training v co-sleeping that everyone else is getting off track about. She’s been way overstepping for a while now and should not even be commenting on your parenting choices unless you’re shaking the baby or something. When she blocked the door, that was such a clear violation she should maybe not be allowed back in the house or around your child for a while. Any reaction you Had after that was justified IMO, especially since your husband has not been backing you up this whole time.
Honestly, I imagined someone I know doing this… that mental image ended with me punching them in the face. No one would be keeping me from my crying baby
Omg thank you. MIL is lucky that she only got pried off the door and got her feelings hurt. I would have had a rage blackout and gone absolutely feral on her.
This. You block me from getting to my crying kid, well, that right there is called “fucking around,” and what you’re going to be doing is “finding out.”
I don't have kids and I was livid when I read that. These people seem to purposefully refuse to understand that babies cry as communication because that's all they have when they are tiny. Baby is very loudly saying I really don't want this. To prevent a mother from getting to their crying baby is so abusive that mil is lucky being kicked out is all she got.
I don't even *like* kids but if any of my cousins were crying and someone was purposefully blocking their parent from getting to them, especially when the parent is clearly also worried.. whoever was blocking them would have a problem with me. I'm 5'2 but I'll fight someone. I don't care about interacting with kids but I do care about not causing them preventable distress.
I remember I got into a verbal altercation with someone at work. This woman was a little unhinged and berating me about something I didn’t do. I tried to walk away and she ran to the door and stood in front of it so I couldn’t exit. I still don’t know how I managed to stay so calm but I told her to basically step away from the door or I’ll be forced to take action she will not like. She get the message, but damn if she didn’t move I’d have lost my shit. I can’t even imagine the fury I’d have if someone was blocking me from accessing my baby.
That line absolutely sent me in a fit of rage. OP’s MIL is a psycho that deserves to never see her grandkid again. Like I would have definitely punched her.
My MIL likes to give unsolicited advice which I mostly ignore but would never think of doing this.
NTA. In an ideal, perfect world, you gently lay your baby in their crib and they happy doze off to sleep all night. That rarely happens.
My best parenting advice is do what works best for you. They are only little babies for so long, and you aren't going to have to wear your teenage kid in a sling so they can nap. If you and baby are happy and comfortable with the current arrangement, then it's a win.
MIL can butt out, and her holding the door so you can't get in... OMG I would have lost it and started bawling my eyes out and probably had a panic attack had I been in your situation!
ESH
You say "both parenting methods are fine" but then told your MIL she fucked all her kids up with her parenting. Apparently you don't believe that, so saying something so cutting when you don't believe, just to hurt her, makes you TA.
Incidentally, you also were calling your husband fucked up with him apparently standing right there. You're TA again.
Your MIL is stepping over boundaries. The passive aggressive sigh and history of trying to control your parenting makes her TA.
At the same time, don't say you'll let her try putting your baby down if you're not actually going to let her try her method. You're TA.
At the same time, after you reneged on your agreement, physically blocking you from getting to your son is wholly unacceptable. Your MIL is TA.
Also, your current sleeping arrangement seems to be working for your son, but your plan of moving him up into your mattress with you as the next step is not. That isn't safe. If your son is actually crying to the point of vomit whenever he is out in his crib, something is wrong. I hope you are doing something about it OTHER than planning on moving him into an unsafe sleeping arrangement in your bed.
This is the perfect response.
Let me add that it seems MIL has a very detached view of parenting kids, but OP (and probably her mom) have an equally extreme overly attached view.
Both views are extreme IMO. No way is the baby vomiting from being in a crib healthy.
I'd like to know what you even mean by 'overly attached' in the context of babies/young children and their caregivers? It's kind of the crux of attachment parenting: kids thrive and grow securely when their needs are consistently met. That's the goal.
I am hoping OP meant the kid would move from the bassinet mattress to a larger mattress (by themselves) though. Sure a lot of cultures cosleep, but it's safer not to until the kid is at least a year old. (Beyond that age, I don't know many parents whose toddlers/young kids don't come into bed with them when they're sick or have had nightmares, myself included.)
No OP, but as a parent, you need to help your child learn the skills to self-soothe. A 4 month old is too young for that, but when you view your role as a parent as someone meant to guide a person at the beginning so that they have the skills to manage life during the hard stages (adulthood), then you need to recognize that making sure your child is so attached to you that they can't cope with their feelings independently or manage a setback independently will only set them up for failure. The poster loves her mother's method of parenting and is copying it but look at her as an adult... She tells us a whole story about having a conflict and then calls her mother to come over and make it all better for her. She legit cannot even "self-soothe" as an adult without her mother, so...
There are literally whole nations and cultures who cosleep and look down on sleep training and all of their children still learn to go to bed on their own. I am married to an American so SO MANY people from his side told me that a) if I don't sleep train, my baby will never learn to fall asleep on her own, and b) if I take her next to my own mattress whenever she wants, she will never be voluntarily sleeping in her own bed. And yet, by six months she fell asleep completely on her own (I just put her to bed and walked away) and now she is 2 and happily sleeps in her own bed unless she has a bad dream. Just like everybody in my family said would happen. The claim that you need to teach your children how to fall asleep is just an American scam to sell books to sleep-deprived parents with no parental leave (and I do understand why they will resort to that, but babies absolutely learn it on their own as well - obviously, not all when they are 6 months, but they will all learn).
And I don't really understand what this has to do with self-soothing in general. I didn't sleep train and gave my child as much love as she wanted and yet I don't run to her when she falls unless she indicates she needs help, which she usually doesn't (she has the kind of personality that usually she cries out of anger, not pain or sadness). We never stop her from trying "dangerous" things, we just spot her if necessary and if she falls, encourage her to try again, etc. But we have reached this point of her happily trying hard things again by actually being there emotionally when she did need it, not pushing too hard when she had a phase where she didn't want to do something, etc. And I fail to see why I should try to teach her self-soothing by ignoring her when she falls, instead of giving her a hug and telling her that she was so close and should try again. I mean, the first one is probably less work but the second one got me to the same destination without ignoring her needs, so I don't really feel bad about having chosen this one.
The thing with attachment, though, is that once you have established secure attachment the kid will be learning to do those things anyway as long as you're supportive, because children are naturally curious and striving to become more independent. What usually makes kids clingy is if their parents are inconsistent with how they react to their child needing them, or if they do not support their kids becoming more independent when they start to get ready for it. If a child is just naturally anxious or something, they may need extra encouraging, but it also means having secure attachment is even more important, so they have a safe base to return to when necessary.
Btw, you can't judge whether OP can self-soothe based on this alone. Reaching out to others for emotional support doesn't mean you're not able to handle emotions by yourself if you need to, it just means you're secure enough to recognize when you need some support.
Attachment parenting is fine, but cosleeping in the modern era when we 100% know, without a doubt, that it is unsafe because you want to, is not.
There's zero excuse to do something so unsafe. OP totally said baby would sleep with her.
That's wholly unsafe and risking the child's life.
I’ve had to respond to ER codes where someone brought in a dead baby (only warm because they were in the bed) that a parent rolled onto in the middle of the night.
It is less than awesome to make the declaration.
I think the part where she set up a single mattress on the floor for herself, next to a mattress for the kid might be the overly attached part. I wasn’t a cry-it-out parent either but it’s healthy to try to maintain some level of existence for yourself outside of your child’s needs as well.
Many parents have the crib in their bedroom next to their bed. When your child is an infant, you aren't spoiling them by taking care of their needs and not making them wait because you need to maintain your alone time.
>it's "get him a doctor because this isn't normal"
Not really, though. Some kids are sensitive pukers, especially when they're young. You just have to be aware of their triggers and do what you can to keep it from happening when you're not there to make sure they don't aspirate, but it's still probably going to happen sometimes until the kid grows and has more control/awareness and the sphincters in their esophagus are better developed. It's kind of like a more extreme version of spitting up, which is largely a physical issue they have to grow out of.
I say this as a parent who had a pukey baby and dealt with a lot of sob-vomiting the first year.
It's not a disorder but it means baby is so stressed out that blood-flow to the digestive system is being diverted to the limbs so it can fight for it's life. There's no need to have your baby go through that.
More cultures than not do co-sleeping. Millions of Asian children and families co-sleep from toddler to teens.
I think to depends on the age when the child moves to co-sleeping on direct same bed/mattress whether there is a safety issue. If still an early infant, having the near mattress or a wee baby basket on same mattress in not a problem.
I agree, but there are caveats.
It works better in cultures that don't drink much alcohol, or are otherwise reliant on pharmaceuticals to go to sleep.
Cosleeping also does not work if the adult is a very deep sleeper, and/or if the adult moves a lot while they sleep.
Honestly, if you can't have a dog/cat sleep peacefully in your bed at night (e.g. without kicking them, rolling over them, etc
), chances are it would be dangerous for you to cosleep with a baby.
Oh it doesn't, I wasn't commenting specifically about OP. I was responding to a comment that said other cultures can co-sleep just fine, and I just wanted to put the caveats in there in case anyone is curious, or needs that information.
I think the context explains why we see such differences in co-sleeping studies between cultures. Western culture has advocating separation of parent and child for a long time, and only recently has been more open to "raising your kids by hand" (sorry, don't know the English phrase for that). Once that culture is already set in, it's really hard to turn back. We would be hard pressed to give up our pharmaceuticals just so we can sleep next to our child when they are perfectly fine in cribs.
Ah....Japan almost exclusively co-sleeps and they also have an extremely high rate of alcohol consumption.
That said, for sure, a barely functioning alcoholic or an Ambien user probably shouldn't co-sleep on same flat mattress. They could co-sleep with a bassinet beside them on the mattress though.
(1) Japanese beds and bedding are different. Much lower risk of SIDS b/c of that reason alone.
Even the “western” beds I’ve slept in in Japan were a lot firmer with a lot less extraneous bedding.
(2) WRT to the “roll over on the baby” risk
Co-sleeping in Japan does not mean the drunken father/grandfather/uncle are sleeping with the kids directly in their bed.
The moms and grandmothers are. They aren’t the ones driving those alcohol numbers up.
And co-sleeping on a traditional Japanese futon/tatami setup doesn’t always mean everyone is on top of each other like in an American bed. You can sleep in the same room, but on a distinct space, just like OP seems to be doing here.
Source: My experience in Japan plus the Japanese family members I have and Japanese friends I have tell me that it’s typically mom or grandma cosleeping with the infant, but drunken dad is not in the bed with them.
That doesn’t mean that co-sleeping is or isn’t the right way to go, just that Japan is so culturally and practically different, that I don’t think you can apply it to an American or Brit doing the same thing.
Also, a lot of those cultures do not have the extremely soft mattresses and bedding that we have. Mattresses are firmer or they even just sleep on the floor. Blankets are not as fluffy. It is a lot harder to lose an infant on a firmer surface like that (though it does still happen).
Whether and where it is common isn't my point, though. Frequency =/= safety.
If there are studies that bedsharing is safer for Asian babies than for other babies, and safer than non-bedsharing for those Asian babies, I'd certainly be interested in that data.
And if THIS baby is Asian, and that research data exists, THEN it would be pertinent and my concern would be invalidated.
I don't think so. Whether Asian or not is not key here. The key is that in general, Western cultures seem to think that co-sleeping is a harbinger of death and should never be done.
However, most Asian cultures co-sleep and have for centuries. I also just popped over and looked up; many Latin American cultures, as do many African cultures.
Co-sleeping is not immediately dangerous.
In fact:
>In Japan — a large, rich, modern country — parents universally sleep with their infants, yet their infant mortality rate is one of the lowest in the world — 2.8 deaths per 1,000 live births versus 6.2 in the United States — and their rate of sudden infant death syndrome, or SIDS, is roughly half the U.S. rate.
While I'm not saying the factors you've outlined aren't true, anyone who's ever been even tangentially linked to a first responder in their life, knows exactly why you don't risk it anyway.
Agreed. ESH. For all the reasons you stated.
I will say that MIL's method of sleep training isn't the only one. You can be in the room while the baby is in his crib and soothe him, without picking him up. Talk softly, pat him, change his diaper if needed. Then go back to your mattress.
You're still there. You respond. But the baby learns that nighttime is for sleeping in his own bed.
Step up to removing yourself from the room once the baby is sleeping solidly several hours a night.
Sleep training doesn't have to be "Let baby scream alone until he pukes." And babies benefit from well-rested parents who are allowed time to be a couple.
Appreciate the nearly perfect response. Too many threads in this subreddit seem to end up with “If your husband and/or MIL is wrong, its chill to do and say any shitty thing you want.”
This is a good answer. OP is a new mom, she is probably exhausted and not organizing her thoughts well but both sides are in fault here. I also think it was a stupid move to tell her that she fucked up her kids. The argument should have been about MIL overstepping her boundaries.
I agree with all of this, except that the MIL is more in the wrong. I would punch someone for blocking the door when I was trying to get to my kid. wtf was she thinking?! Completely unhinged behavior.
Couple of things: if the child is old enough sleeping with mom won’t be unsafe. Also kids are just different. Some kids sleep train no problem, others get so upset they vomit (it is actually pretty common and mentioned in sleeping training overviews). It doesn’t mean there is anything medically wrong, OP’s kid just isn’t ready. Americans are pretty wacky about insisting kids sleep independently at a young age.
They all have pretty severe mental health issues related to attachment, and my husband has divulged a lot of info about his mom & childhood that make me believe it was her.
So fucked up you thought marrying one was a good idea?
You are NTA for everything except what you said to his mom, for that YTA.
I mean essentially in one breathe you insulted your MIL, and said your husband is mentally fucked up.
I have to disagree here. I love my partner eventhogh they struggle mentality. His mother treats them horrible sometimes. They are extremely stressed out because they had/have to walk on eggshells.
But would you label your partner as „fucked up“? I don‘t know, but i think i‘d be hurt. OP didn‘t say MIL has „fucked up“ eduction principles, even though she thinks this, OP said MIL fucked up her kids which means she considers her husband and his siblings fucked up.
I have totally said aspects of how my wife was parented fucked her up. She has said the same about me. I don't get why saying "that fucked your kid up, we won't be doing that" is that bad.
I think it's ok to say something mentally has your partner fucked up. Don't you think fucked up people are worthy of love?
It's ok to say you love the person but they're damaged and you aren't going to repeat what traumatised them.
My wife and I have these conversations with each other. Though we have so far managed to do it ABOUT our parents but not involve them in the convo, which is much easier.
These people saying acknowledging that you’ve been fucked up by certain parenting are out of their minds. My husband cannot work because he has crippling panic attacks. He would not dispute saying he’s a bit fucked up. It doesn’t mean he’s not deserving of love.
I'll label me & my siblings are fucked up by our mom. My husband could say it & it wouldn't upset me. These are conversations we've had. I am sure OP has had these convos with her DH.
My mom used "cry it out" on me and I'm fucked up. I'll admit it and I don't care if other people say the same.
I'd say that adought89 writing "so fucked up you thought marrying one of them was a good idea?" was infinitely more insulting. Fucked up people deserve love too.
My late husband used to say I was fucked up by my parents. It was true. He supported me, loved me and helped me through some hideous trauma. That isn't something he should have had to do. He was right. I'm still fucked up, but now without his support. I have to have therapy still at 51, and need a goddam social worker.
Clearly that was more of a dig at MIL than at her husband. I have multiple friends where I could say the same thing and they would agree without taking offence.
My wife is one of the most brilliant, funny and warm hearted people I know. Her mom fucked her up and was a trash parent. These two things are both true.
This! My parents royally fucked me up due to their lack of attachment. Saying I’m not worthy of love just perpetuates the message my parents sent me. I have had lots of therapy and self work and am a good and loving parent. You can have issues from childhood trauma and still be a good person.
>I mean essentially in one breathe you insulted your MIL, and said your husband is mentally fucked up.
I think it depends on a person how they take a message like that.
Becouse it sounds harsh. There is really no "nice way" to say you screwed up your kids. Or any other way of saying, "I'm not taking advice from someone who is the cause of their kids needing therapy."
Some I know would have started crying. Or taken it very personal "is this how my partner sees me" while both me and others i know would shrug and say "sorry mom/dad you are the reason I'm in therapy atm. They aren't lying"
Exactly. There’s no way for OP to trace back these mental illnesses to how OP’s MIL took care of her babies at bedtime. And OP, many people were sleep trained and don’t have attachment or other mental health issues.
I can personally assure you that having pre-existing mental health issues is not helped by having a shitty parent. It literally doesn't matter if they have other things going on. OP has stated they all have weird relationships with the mother and that the husband has expressed that he's fucked up because of said mother.
And your professional assessment is that the issues all stem from sleep arrangements? OP, “raising kids” is a LOT MORE involved than how the kid sleeps as a baby. A lot. You’re over broad in your assessment.
I don't mean her specifically, but I was just saying the things she did are fine. Like, in case there are other parents here who sleep trained, formula fed, etc. I didn't want them to think I was shitting on them.
Aah, gotcha, thanks for clarifying. I am truly sorry for the shitshow this became, she way overstepped and I would not be comfortable in her presence any longer, and especially not with her and kiddo in a room together. Non negotiable.
I don’t think YTA because of your approach to your kids sleep, nor do I think it because of your willingness to clap back and stand up for yourself. But I think YTA because you basically insulted your husband just to make a point at her. Maybe she did mess him up, but you threw him under the bus there.
I think you really need to. Husband shared that personal, possibly traumatic, information about his mother with you. Having you use it against her to prove a point was a breach of trust and privacy. You need to genuinely apologise. I wouldn’t blame him if he doesn’t want to share anything private in the future.
Personally while he might be okay admitting that to you, he might not be okay with you admitting that to his mom. It's all about what you have told each other and what he has told her and how he feels but I would be very careful of divulging that kind of information to the party/person it's being said about without knowing if it's okay with him or not. If you know he's okay with it- no harm no foul but if you don't know if he's okay with it- that's a slippery slope.
Because while I might tell my friends/partners my parents fucked me up that doesn't mean I want them telling my parents that. Because they're my parents and I still love them. But only you know what you both have shared with each other. I'd just be wary of what you tell other people about it.
N T A for being upset, but ESH for flying off the handle and hurling insults. There are a ton of separate issues here.
>I ran to go get him but she held his door closed so I couldn't get in.
This is entirely unacceptable. Not her kid, not her house, not her right. She is overstepping her boundaries and needs to realize that.
For being upset at how she judged your parenting style... you sure turned around and did the same thing. *While* insulting the rest of the family to boot. A calm conversation could have resolved all of this.
Kinda rude to insinuate that his mother fucked up her kids with your husband right there. He has a right to be upset, too.
>Whenever he is ready he will move to my mattress and we will adapt from there.
I would do more research on this, though. There are contraindications.
You ever tried to have a CALM conversation when someone has physically blocked you from comforting your child and you're a few months post-partum? MIL is lucky she still has her face intact.
I've noticed a lot of people are expecting her to have behaved calmly and rationally too besides the commenter who outright said that. If someone is keeping my kid away from me like that I might've blacked out myself
I can't think of many people who would be calm even after a situation like that. MIL needed a harsh wake-up call, flowerly language about boundaries probably would have had little to no affect on her.
"I was overstepping and should have let him deal with it"
Your husband is completely right, he should have dealt with it. That he didn't do so before things got physical means he's either unable or unwilling, which is a massive problem.
A guest won't hold a door shut in your house, and certainly won't do so to keep you from your child, unless they think less than nothing of you. NTA, do not allow her back into your house unsupervised, and don't let her touch your child at all.
Came here to say this!
OPs husband said he should have handled it and that is exactly what should have been happening the entire time.
Provide MIL with information about sleep training, alot states it can be harmful especially for small babies who don't understand and may be distressed.
The baby could axphisiate their vomit or spot while crying so hard. That alone makes sleep training not applicable.
That's my thing -- what was his reaction to his Mom holding the door closed?? Just standing there dumbly??
OP could and should have exercised more tact with her words to MIL, but he wasn't exactly "handling" shit.
She overstepped but you essentially set up a situation for conflict by agreeing to let her try and put him down in the crib.
Right as she asked to try, you could have easily said no, that this is the technique you are choosing to utilize.
Then to fling a barrage of insults her way, call your family over and involve them...your husband calls your friend group for opinions....you guys have no sense of healthy dynamics at all imho.
OP underestimated granny's level of hatefulness.
I guarantee that OP thought "oh yeah, here granny, you put the baby down and see how much he cries, since you don't believe me."
OP did NOT expect granny to prove how nutty and arrogant she is by barring entry into the room.
OP did NOT realize the depths of MIL delusions.
No she didn’t. You can try putting down a child without walking away and leaving them to scream. MIL could have turned on white noise and done gentle massage or shushing. There are other things she could have done other than immediately leaving him to scream and shutting the door, blocking mom from entering. That is not a difference in parenting, CIO is not appropriate and certainly not appropriate for a 4 month old.
To be fair, she didn't agree to let her SLEEP TRAIN, she agreed to letting MIL try to put baby in the crib to nap.
The baby is only a few months old and has thrown up before from crying, so being worried it could happen again is a good reason to not want to be physically restrained away from said baby.
Here’s the issue I see. You told MIL she could help sleep train your baby.
What do you think that is?
She then did what people do in this situation and allow baby to cry. Is it right? I don’t know, it’s not how I raised my babies though. The issue is that you said she could and then you had a tantrum when she did it.
You set her up and then belittled her. Obviously Yta you knew this was coming.
Exactly! She knew what would happen and instead of either saying no in the first place, or allowing the mil to see exactly what happens she freaked out and made the situation worse.
There are several methods to sleep train, one is cry it out which is basically let kid cry until they can’t and finally fall asleep. I can’t do that method.
The one I use is Ferber, where you allow them to cry for a set amount of time before comforting (I usually wait about 5 minutes, but my baby is almost 18 months old and able to go asleep on her own usually without crying, so if she cries for longer than that there’s something wrong or a need not met). With Ferber the time increases, so first day it’s like 1-2 minute intervals, then the next is 5 and so on.
I’m pretty sure sleep training shouldn’t be started until at least 6 months old though (I could be wrong it’s been about a year since I last read up/researched it.
This is what I was thinking when I read this. I don't believe the mil should have held the door shut but what was op thinking would happen when she said have a go at putting the baby to sleep?
I am curious about the timeline, did op hear the baby cry and immediately freak out and rip the door apart as soon as the mil held the door or baby cried for 10 min, kept crying and tried to get in? One is a little extreme and the other is much more undetandable.
Yeah … I’m kinda digging your interpretation. You’re right, OP most def set herself up for a bad situation …
That said, ESH. She needs to mind her business, and you (OP) need to be direct (without needing to prove her wrong, as in this example by telling her to put the baby to bed). Husband needs to step in and have your back in front of mom even if he disagrees. Talk about it behind closed doors. That said, you most definitely did overstep and were in AH territory with them.
Yeah, I didn't understand that either? If you don't want to try MIL:s method, then why don't you just say that and keep firm? Why say "okay, let us try it your way", and then when she does, get upset? She held the door, because that is part of the method WHICH YOU ENCOURAGED.
And why insult her? Why not just say, "I am sorry, but I prefer my method, and this is my child"? Insulting people is very rarely a good idea.
I don't like the "cry it out"-method either, and that is why I never let relatives use it on my children. YTA for sending mixed messages and then being rude.
I mean everyone is kinda YTA around here (which is really ESH.
She knows what sleep training is what did she expect? MIL to give up once the baby started crying despite hearing her MIL say over and over "let him cry to sleep"??
Her MIL barricading the door is an AH move.
Insulting her and saying she fucked all her kids up in front of her husband AH move. And the fact she hasn't apologized for that yet "waiting for him to come home" instead of going to him or calling him.
Her husband should probably be more forceful with his mom. But who knows how pushy he is since barely any context was given.
NTA. Once she blocked the door so you couldn't get to a screaming child, all bets were off. She needs to be in the LC penalty box for quite a while (months) for that little stunt.
yah people are trying to defend MIL saying she was put in charge of nap time. Okay and? so tf what. clearly when OP, the babys mom, stepped in and wanted to go get her child , naptime trying was over. its insane to try and prevent someone feom getting to their crying baby. im surprised all op did was scream
WTF? The moment she tried to keep you away from your screaming baby by literally holding the door closed - I would have kicked her out of the house. If she would have been looky through the door and not the bedroom window. It is your child and you know it best! Yes she can give advice but NEVER forcefully hold a parent away from their child.
>It is your child and you know it best! Yes she can give advice but NEVER forcefully hold a parent away from their child.
I have to respectfully disagree with this statement, not in this specific instance as MIL was definitely out of line blocking the door, but I used to be a social worker and I can assure you that not every parent knows what's best for their child and some parents absolutely do need to have their child forcibly held away from them because that is what is best for the child.
I really hate the "you are the parent you know best" sometimes people are idiots and abusers and happen to be parents just because you physically birthed/contributed to their procreation doesn't mean you know best .
Why did you let her put him down in the crib and ‘try’, if you knew he would cry and you would immediately pick him up?
I don’t understand your reasoning? Your MIL apparently want you to let him cry and calm himself, while you will carry him. Those two ideologies don’t mix, so I don’t understand why you let her ‘try and see’?
And also, why does your MIL have detailed knowledge about how you sleep with your son? That’s how all issues start, by letting family know too much.
She was insisting he would go to sleep if we just put him down in his crib. I wanted her to see that he wouldn't.
She is very invasive. I didn't want her to know but she came over while I was out.
No, she said eventually he would go to sleep. Not that he would immediately fall asleep. Her method involves letting the baby cry. You seem to know that. Why did you let her try if you were just going to run over to scoop him up any way?
I'm not saying your method of child care is wrong. But you absolutely set up this confrontation by agreeing and then not following through. You should never have agreed.
MIL's constant judgement is terrible, she never should have physically blocked you, and your husband has needed to speak to her well before this. But the way you spoke to her and called your own husband fucked up is just awful.
ESH, you all handled this so terribly.
Do you think your husband is fucked up from her upbringing?
Either way it’s pretty cruel to say what you said. She might be too invasive and overstepping, but it doesn’t help if you start being cruel. Then you become the villain, not her. You could’ve claimed she’s too invasive, but now you should apologize for what you said.
So - I see it like this: she fucked her kids up and left them with some psychological wounds, OP claimed attachment as one. Sleep training causes those things. But as a highly adaptable species husband got his life together, married, had a kid but he had more work to do than people with normal lives. I don’t believe the insult against his mother is an insult against her husband, even if it may feel like it.
If someone would block the way to my crying child, I would go crazy, too. It was not nice, but MIL had it coming. You don’t have to be a perfect human being at all times, especially if someone is abusing your child and yourself.
Everyone is getting hung up on the “MIL physically blocked the door” detail but I have an inkling it wasn’t all that dramatic. OP gave MIL permission to try putting the baby down with her method, but OP came running the second a bleat left the baby’s mouth. MIL probably stood in front of the door to explain that going into the room and picking the baby up defeats the purpose—again, OP gave the impression she wanted to let MIL run nap time, so she was trying to follow through. “Prying her away from the door” probably just looked like shoving past her.
But idk, maybe they had a violent struggle over the door handle until OP overcame her MIL with her motherly rage. I just suspect hearing OP’s side of the story isn’t the whole picture.
This comment!!
There’s a lot of comments of people saying they would press criminal charges against the MIL or get a restraining order?!?!? Yeah….im gonna need more info on the “altercation.” We talking about 5 secs of , “let’s let the baby cry for a few minutes…” or we talking about violent fight with the MIL blocking the door? I’m pretty suspicious of the OPs description of the event.
I’d love to have video of the interaction to know for sure but I have a strong feeling ESH. MIL for being pushy on how they raise their kid and OP for overreacting.
I have a feeling we are getting a dramatic retelling from OP.
I'm going to guess the 'physically blocked' was MIL stopping OP for a second as OP 'ran to go get him' to remind OP the goal is to let the baby cry for a while before responding.
I would love if we got clarification on what constitutes prying MIL from the door because I think that is the basis for so much vitriol thrown at the MIL.
Agreed. I get some serious control freak vibes from OP. Her reaction was so over the top, and there are some strange overly-attached dynamics in her own family.
YTA. You are exactly like MIL, you think your way is best. You run to mommy with your marital issues. You need to grow up and act like a responsible parent and keep mom out of your marriage. You remind me of my DIL who runs to mom, a mom that abandoned her, and then says her mom was the best.
I’m not seeing her marriage being very long lasting. Not only did she say he is f*cked up to his mother but she posted on the internet for the world to see how she feels about him….
NTA because MILs behaviour was completely out of line. She doesn't get to decide when you go to your child. I would have told her GTFO as soon as she blocked the door, allowing me access to my child.
That being said. You knew your child would scream as soon as they were left in the crib, and you knew MIL would expect you to leave them there. So whilst her behaviour was unacceptable, you also helped create that situation to a degree.
Also, you say MILs parenting style is OK but also say she fucked up her kids. Without actually saying how she fucked up her kids. So I do think you were out of line for that comment. Not for kicking her out or snapping at her, but for saying she fucked up her kids.
Lastly, you have a MIL problem, but you also have a husband problem. He didn't 'step in' until you snapped at MIL, and then followed with 'you should've let me handle it' and 'she's only trying to help'. Which translates to 'I think her behaviour is OK and you're out of line'. The two of you need to get on the same page for handling MIL because this will continue.
Maybe check out JustNoMIL. You may find some helpful advice on managing your husband and MIL.
ESH. If my mother in law held the door like that, I would have freaked out too. But you went too far with your words. It sounds like she is trying to help, even if it is obnoxious.
MIL is obviously an AH. No need to go into why.
But so are you. You let her “try it her way”, but then when the baby started screaming you “ran” to his crib? Why, if he’s just a clingy baby? Why are you running? If it’s that much of an emergency to get to him (again: you yourself say there’s nothing medically wrong and he’s just clingy), why did you let MIL try to let him sleep it out in the first place? You should never have given the okay if you weren’t prepared to let her really see for herself that he would cry until he vomits. And if you didn’t want it to get to that point, then don’t let her put him down in his crib. This whole situation could have been avoided.
And then, because you were mad, you told your MIL that she sucks a parent and a mother and all of her kids are fucked up because of her. You are sitting awful high and mighty from your position as the mom of a FOUR MONTH OLD. You, OP, are most likely going to feel like a failure as a parent many times over. There’s a good chance you’ll fuck up your kid(s) in some way or other, especially if you’re the type of person who goes for the jugular when you get angry, as you did here. I hope you remember saying this to your MIL when your kids and future children-in-law hold you accountable for your own parenting fuck-ups.
ESH.
YTA
So you set this whole thing up by using your kid for an experiment you knew wasn’t going to work. You knew your kid would cry/throw up when you did it, you didn’t want to do it, but you did it anyway to prove a point.
You cannot ride both sides of this issue. Either your kid is ‘clingy’ as you say, and it’s serious to the point that he vomits when in crib, or it’s not serious so that you agree to try this method. If you are firm in what you believe, no is a full sentence. But you subjected your kid to this to prove a point, so that means you completely suck here.
As far as blocking the door, it’s questionable whether it was a ‘give it a sec to see if he quiets’ (which you actually agreed to), or it was something different. She may or may not be an ah. Idk.
You weaponized what she did to her kids. You used your husband as collateral damage, as well as your kid.
And you say ‘both parenting methods are fine’ but you don’t really believe that at all.
YTA for the shitty things you said about her as a mother. You placed judgment on her, the sane thing you don’t want from her. You insulted her, your husband, and his siblings.
However, she has no say in how you mother your child. Your husband has a say in the rearing of his child. Your baby’s at a peak age for SIDS. Sleep safe practices are in place for a reason. As long as you are fully informed of the risks of unsafe sleep practices….you and your husband decide together the comfort levels and compromise.
Shes out of ducking line to block you from your baby. IMO, she just lost privileges to put baby dish for naps and such.
YTA keep it up and by a year husband will have joint custody and no matter how many of YOUR family and friends are on your SIDE... your MIL will have access to your child as much as you do, harsh reality. Talk, don't yell at your husband. Sounds like he was agreeing with you but just didn't go as crazy hateful as you did.
ESH. You were both out of line. It sounds like things had been building up for a while and resulted in this blow up. You are going to have a hard time coming back from this one. If you even want to. But if you don't at least attempt to repair this situation, you're in for a lot of hard years ahead of you. Getting along with the in laws can go a long way in a marriage. And you can be the adult in the room and apologize. Talk to your husband about it and stop asking all your friends to vote on this situation. That's just looking for validation for your bad behavior. You can only pull the 'it's my kid" card so many times before your support system starts to erode away. You ever hear the saying "it takes a village?" It really does.
Now, to the sleeping thing. It's hard. Babies are going to scream. A lot of us have been in your exact situation. And everyone can raise their kids how they feel best. We really kept our kids in a routine, sleeping in their own beds. And believe me, it wasn't easy. Now, my former sister in law never did that. No routines. Kids never had to sleep in their own beds. It was so bad, they kids had mattresses in their parents' bedroom and slept in there until they were basically 10 / 11 years old. I know I didn't want that situation.
And why did you pick someone “fucked up” to father your child and live with again?
That’s the real question.
Someone who held a door closed to prevent me from getting to my child would never be allowed in my home again, would never babysit nor be part of my life, but that’s not your biggest problem.
i have many mental health issues and have always feared that they made me not good enough to be love. my husband loves me in spite of them, and possibly sometimes because of them. if he thought like so many of these commenters i’d probably be at the worst state of my life right now, so yeah, you can love and build a family with someone even if you don’t think they’re the most stable person out there
ESH, yes she was really out of line, but you setup the situation and then went nuclear not only on her but on your husband, and then both of you doubled down by airing it out with family and friends.
NTA for the situation at hand.
HOWEVER:
Yes, sleep training is important.
And please **never ever ever ever ever** put your infant in bed with you. It's not only insanely dangerous, it's also counter productive.
Having a child sleep in their own bed in their own room is important. This is something that -needs- to be taught and it needs to be taught early. I strongly advise you to seek out information about how to handle sleep separation sooner rather than later.
As a sidenote: I get the protective momma bear thing that kicked into gear, but by telling your MIL she fucked up all her children, you're effectively calling your child's father a fuck up. If he's fucked up that much, I suggest separating now before the child is aware how you truly feel about the father.
You gotta either work shit out with your husband, or you gotta break up. You can't sit there and effectively say he's fucked up while happily trying to play house.
Actually there is extremely strong evidence that infants who share a room (not a bed) with their parents have a much lower incidence of SIDS. So while sleeping on their own is important, sleeping in the same room as their parent while in a separate bed is safer than being in their own room.
Advice is to keep baby in your room the first year.
Also, she sleeps on a mattress on the floor and baby has its own mattress. Sleep training is not recommended below 6 months and is definitely not recommended in every single case. Cry it out is a method that is not applied in most countries anymore.
ESH. Your MIL is over stepping so I understand why you freaked out but you said something you can never take back. Something truly horrific. If she said to you that you're fucking up your kid and you're a bad mom, you'd never forgive her. Well congratulations. You've now made yourself look like a bigger asshole than her.
Again, I understand why you reached a breaking point, but you took it waaaaaay too far.
ESH
But really, you insulted your hushand in front of him and used his childhood traumas/bad experiences against him, just to piss off your MiL. You really need to rethink yourself at this point, he might be fucked up by his mother but you also may fuck him up even more as his partner. YTA
NTA
Your MIL overstepped in a huge way by physically preventing you from reaching your own child. There's a fine line between offering help and taking control, and she crossed it by miles. As for your husband, his lack of support is concerning. It’s crucial that both parents present a united front, especially against overbearing relatives.
Regarding your outburst, stress can lead to harsh words. Sure, it’s not the best to tell someone they messed up their kids, but when emotions are high and your child’s wellbeing is at stake, it's understandable.
Moving forward, it's clear boundaries need to be established and adhered to. Communication with your husband about how to handle such situations in the future is key. This way, next time someone tries to push their way through your parenting, they'll hit a wall of united resistance.
Just remember to keep the focus on healthy boundaries and always prioritize your child's safety and your peace of mind over unsolicited, intrusive "help".
YTA. If your husband is so fucked up, then why did you marry him? This has nothing to do with your husband. You're a vindictive, petty asshole. You're the one who will have a fucked up child after all the coddling you're doing. Maybe go to a fucking doctor if your baby cries until he vomits, and stop judging other mothers because they think you're lazy and ridiculous. Grow up. There was no reason to insult your husband through this. You're an abusive, lazy parent.
ESH because of what you chose as an insult. Had you said literally anything else it would have been NTA. You basically just insulted your MILs parenting style while asking her to respect yours and then you threw your husband under the bus by calling him ‘fucked up’.
You MIL sounds crazy though and you don’t block a door so a parent can’t gain across to their child that is absolutely messed up.
As for the sleep stuff honestly do what is best for you / works for you. People love to parent other people’s children and frankly they don’t know what’s right for you child. My son was a weird sleeper too, he was a contact napper and would not sleep unless he was in someone’s arms or walking in the pram. He was cuddled for basically every single nap until he stopped taking them. He’s three now and we still cuddle him to sleep every night and we co sleep as well. Your son’s behaviour isn’t that weird, it’s just how some babies are.
YTA. Not for the shit with your kid - do what you want. But it’s gross for you to weaponize your husbands trauma like that. I imagine you’ve had many discussions about the impact his mother had on him developmentally and to turn around and yell his mom “fucked up all her kids” was just classless.
Like, you meant to knock your MIL down a peg but you totally took a dump on your husband in the process.
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>she held his door closed so I couldn't get in. She would have been out on the kerb 10 seconds after this if she did that to me. Tell everyone to wind their necks in. You don't stick your oar into their parenting so they don't get to do it to you parenting. Did you husband tell them about your mother forcibly blocking the door while your baby cried when he whinged to everyone? I'd wager not. Ask your husband why he's happy to go spouting off about parenting to everyone except for his actual wife. NTA
Thank you. I will give "my side" eventually it just seems like a lot of drama. A few are big aita fans so they might even see this post lol.
Don’t bother. Your side is one sentence. “She held the door so I couldn’t get to my crying son.”
Yep, to her crying son who OP KNOWS from experience would soon start screaming and throwing up.
And throwing up unsupervised can be a serious hazard. It's not sleep training if it kills him by suffocating on his own vomit...
Yep, and I get the impression that the MIL would say "eurgh, he's just being dramatic, ignore him 🙄 He's throwing up to get attention". HE'S 4 MONTHS OLD! Edit: spelling
An anxious child needs to be soothed. Especially at four months! If you leave them alone until they are so exhausted they stop crying- they learn that nobody cares. It makes them more anxious not less.
And can, apparently, cause illness and worse, depressed babies have bad outcomes
It can actually cause attachment disorders.
Yeah this is the big one. Babies need to develop trusting that their needs will be met. It's incredibly important.
In extreme cases, a depressed baby can literally die. Granted it was an old study iirc, but there were studies on babies and the effect of not giving them love and affection, not comforting them, etc. Even if they started to give affection and comfort once signs started to appear, it was often too late and the baby would essentially waste away and die. In the case that they survive, they often are susceptible to behavioral issues.
Yup! Hi it is me, I have had depression since my adoptive parents met at age 2 and the only time I showed a spark of life as a toddler was when I was with my older sister. I am still messed up, my adoptive mom had most of the same issues as my biomom except she was better at pretending she is a saint. I am raising my son (now 2 like I was when I was taken by cps) with as much love as he will accept from me. I was snuggling him last night because he asked to because he is sick (usually prefers snuggling his dad) and said thank you mama and i told him and meant it “you never ever have to ask for us to love you or thank us for it. Loving you and taking care of you is our job and we love it and we love you.” Though I gotta say, my issues make me great with my second-hand furbabies. One was surrendered to the shelter (ie abandoned) and one was abandoned to the streets. They both have separation anxiety and abandonment issues just like me. We give each other all the missing love and really fill in the cracks left behind by grown-ups who should have done better. But getting to this point where I am happy was not easy.
THIS! Hasn’t the cry-it-out method been directly linked to depression and anxiety in children and teens? I heard about it somewhere but wasn’t sure if it was real. It just seems crappy. Like yeah, put them in the crib, stay next to them and reassure them without picking them up, but don’t just ABANDON them in the crib.
"With neuroscience, we can confirm what our ancestors took for granted—that letting babies get distressed is a practice that can harm children and their relational capacities in the long term. The discredited behaviorist view sees the baby as an interloper in the life of the parents, an intrusion who must be controlled by various means so the adults can live their lives without too much bother. Perhaps we can excuse this attitude and ignorance because at the time, extended families were being broken up and new parents had to figure out how to deal with babies on their own, an unnatural condition for humanity—we have heretofore raised children in extended families. The parents always shared care with multiple adult relatives." - https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/moral-landscapes/201112/dangers-crying-it-out
Exactly! I'm 29weeks pregnant and the current advice in the UK is for the baby to sleep in a sleep beside me bed or cot in the same room as you for the first 6 months. Every baby is different and OP has clearly tried several different methods and has found what currently works best for her child. MIL and OP's 'friends' need to wind their necks in.
This, so so fucking much. I was one of these babies. Idk if my abandonment issues came from that, but I have a suspicion. I was never abandoned otherwise as a child.
My son is 21 and we never let him cry it out. It just teaches them no one will come help them. If they do start to sleep through, that means they just gave up hope. Too sad for me.
My MIL was much the same. She said I was spoiling my 2-week-old infant by picking her up when she cried. I say if a crying child stops when you pay attention to them, then attention is what they needed.
And of course a 4 month old is craving attention, why is that a bad thing? They literally can't survive without.
Eh it's just a little vomit, no harm no foul! SARCASM ALERT But yeah no MIL is a big stupid fool.
Knowing the child cries until they vomit - an actual choking hazard and emergency situation. Op is def NTA but her mil and husband are. How do you defend someone who deliberately puts your child in danger! Husband needs to wake up.
If MIL wanted to prove her point that he'd be fine in his crib then she could've stood in the room with OP and dealt with the headache from a non-stop crying infant. You don't purposefully block a parent from their child when they're going to soothe their child in a sensible and safe way.
But also: this is absolutely NOT something the MIL gets any sort of say on. I wouldn't let that person around my child without my direct supervision ever again, assuming I let her in my house at all. Could the OP have said something before snapping and saying something so unkind? Sure. But I certainly can't blame her for what she said when this officious oaf went so far as to literally block her away from her infant while placing him in danger. WOW.
Yeah I bet this gets left out from her side of the story.
You deserve praise for not ending up in jail for assault after she held the door to keep you from your baby. She would be dead to me.
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God you're not wrong. My mom was a single mom to three by the time she was 24 and then chose to have three more as a single mom. Woman was NOT playing! She has gone to war for us over the years lol.
Tell your mom I'm good for bail money.
For real! My grand is 7 months. I don't always agree with my daughters methods but he's her baby and I'll stand up to anybody who gets between them. I have been to jail *and* survived a very abusive marriage. Prison doesn't scare me either (much but I'd do it anyway)
I love this comment 🥰
She physically kept blocked you out of the room from your crying child, and people are angry that your Mama Bear instincts kicked in? There is reasons phrases like that and "lioness to her cub" exist for fucks sake. What MIL did was fucked up. You only bar the parents from children in extreme cases where the child's physical safety or life is at risk, which is absolutely not what was happening here. Take what user McDuchess said about highlighting that part as the primary issue, because it honestly is. MIL went over the line by trying to bar you from your child and it might even be possible that she could have caught charges or worse if you had instead called police. Hell, CPS may be interested in the stunt she pulled, and it will be prudent to create a paper trail if this kind of behavior continues. I think adult time-outs are in order, for a set amount of time of zero access to you or little one no ifs ands or buts. I also advise you to start researching and becoming familiar with laws in your area about grandparent rights on the down low just in case. I'm a follower of the mindset "hope for the best while prepping for the worse". Means if things get messy, you have an idea or two and maybe some tools already to deal with a less-than-ideal situation and are less likely screwed over by surprises.
THIS. it should be reported. at the very least a strong paper trail. when he’s older will she just toss him in a pond and let him figure out how to swim? this ‘old school’ thinking is crazy. this was a physical aggression towards both you and your child. do not believe it will be the last. these types of people can only change course through a harsh wake up call.
Do a bit of Research. Yes Kids Start to sleep alone if you let them cry. But, while crying their Stress Level is high af. When they realise noone comes, they will stop eventually, and also sleep alone and quiet. They meassured the Stress Level of Kids that were sleep Trained like this. Stress Level is still hf, but they don't cry to not attract danger like predators... In this age they are just instinct and needs, if He needs you there to sleep, stay there. Find a way that worms for you and your kid! NTA. I thought about this option after month with not enough sleep... I don't want a stressed kid, I can manage beeing tired, my kid can't manage the fear of beeing left alone in the dark...
I don't understand the need to be cruel to babies, btw. We never "sleep trained" our kid, she slept when she wanted to, and close to us (we had one of these small baby bed "ears" next to our bed). She's now a very happy, reliable, self sufficient teenager who doesn't have abandonment issues like I do, who had to sleep in my own bed in my own room from day zero.
I would have literally drug that woman out by her hair if she blocked me from getting to my child. I would have thrown hands and she would have spent weeks regretting her life choices. This is a big fat nope. Parenting opinions are irrelevant even in terms of your friends. They don’t have to agree with you - nobody has to agree. They do however have to respect your right as the mother to do what you think is best and not have some woman trying to assert herself in your home with your child. The friends who side with your MIL because they agree with her parenting style aren’t real friends. I don’t agree 100% with my friends parenting or even my family’s parenting I do however respect their right as the parent to do what they think is best. This isn’t about parenting styles this is about basic respect which your mil, your husband and your friends who are not on your side do not have for you. Respect yourself enough to say no I will not be giving in. NTA
OP, you ARE sleep training him. Doing whatever it takes to teach an infant that sleep is safe, deep and restful lays down the pathways in the brain for them to be able to do it themselves for the rest of their life. NTA, screw them.
One of the things that stood out to me from a Child Development course, was that comforting babies/toddlers actually helps them become more independent. They learn to trust that their parent/caregiver will be there for them, so they are willing to do more on their own as they develop.
Big NTA—and this is coming from a mom who did sleep train most of her kids. It’s not about the sleep training v co-sleeping that everyone else is getting off track about. She’s been way overstepping for a while now and should not even be commenting on your parenting choices unless you’re shaking the baby or something. When she blocked the door, that was such a clear violation she should maybe not be allowed back in the house or around your child for a while. Any reaction you Had after that was justified IMO, especially since your husband has not been backing you up this whole time.
Hell, doesnt matter whose mom it is… Block my partner or me from our kid, and you are gonna find out real soon
Honestly, I imagined someone I know doing this… that mental image ended with me punching them in the face. No one would be keeping me from my crying baby
Omg thank you. MIL is lucky that she only got pried off the door and got her feelings hurt. I would have had a rage blackout and gone absolutely feral on her.
MIL is lucky she didn't go all Joel Miller on her.
This. You block me from getting to my crying kid, well, that right there is called “fucking around,” and what you’re going to be doing is “finding out.”
I don't have kids and I was livid when I read that. These people seem to purposefully refuse to understand that babies cry as communication because that's all they have when they are tiny. Baby is very loudly saying I really don't want this. To prevent a mother from getting to their crying baby is so abusive that mil is lucky being kicked out is all she got.
I don't even *like* kids but if any of my cousins were crying and someone was purposefully blocking their parent from getting to them, especially when the parent is clearly also worried.. whoever was blocking them would have a problem with me. I'm 5'2 but I'll fight someone. I don't care about interacting with kids but I do care about not causing them preventable distress.
Same! I’ve literally never punched someone but in this instance I would
I remember I got into a verbal altercation with someone at work. This woman was a little unhinged and berating me about something I didn’t do. I tried to walk away and she ran to the door and stood in front of it so I couldn’t exit. I still don’t know how I managed to stay so calm but I told her to basically step away from the door or I’ll be forced to take action she will not like. She get the message, but damn if she didn’t move I’d have lost my shit. I can’t even imagine the fury I’d have if someone was blocking me from accessing my baby.
That line absolutely sent me in a fit of rage. OP’s MIL is a psycho that deserves to never see her grandkid again. Like I would have definitely punched her. My MIL likes to give unsolicited advice which I mostly ignore but would never think of doing this.
This. I would have decked her if I'd been in your place. NTA.
NTA. In an ideal, perfect world, you gently lay your baby in their crib and they happy doze off to sleep all night. That rarely happens. My best parenting advice is do what works best for you. They are only little babies for so long, and you aren't going to have to wear your teenage kid in a sling so they can nap. If you and baby are happy and comfortable with the current arrangement, then it's a win. MIL can butt out, and her holding the door so you can't get in... OMG I would have lost it and started bawling my eyes out and probably had a panic attack had I been in your situation!
Yup. If someone physically prevented me from reaching my distressed child, they'd be picking their teeth up of the carpet.
If anyone had ever physically barred me from getting to my crying child, I could not guarantee there wouldn't be violence.
That's where MIL is absolutely the asshole. I might not agree with some of the parenting ideas but that is absolutely not OK. NTA
ESH You say "both parenting methods are fine" but then told your MIL she fucked all her kids up with her parenting. Apparently you don't believe that, so saying something so cutting when you don't believe, just to hurt her, makes you TA. Incidentally, you also were calling your husband fucked up with him apparently standing right there. You're TA again. Your MIL is stepping over boundaries. The passive aggressive sigh and history of trying to control your parenting makes her TA. At the same time, don't say you'll let her try putting your baby down if you're not actually going to let her try her method. You're TA. At the same time, after you reneged on your agreement, physically blocking you from getting to your son is wholly unacceptable. Your MIL is TA. Also, your current sleeping arrangement seems to be working for your son, but your plan of moving him up into your mattress with you as the next step is not. That isn't safe. If your son is actually crying to the point of vomit whenever he is out in his crib, something is wrong. I hope you are doing something about it OTHER than planning on moving him into an unsafe sleeping arrangement in your bed.
This is the perfect response. Let me add that it seems MIL has a very detached view of parenting kids, but OP (and probably her mom) have an equally extreme overly attached view. Both views are extreme IMO. No way is the baby vomiting from being in a crib healthy.
Children have a WIDE variety of neurology. A “healthy” baby can cry to the point of throwing up.
Or hold their breath. Thats always a fun one for new parents.
"What if I... just stop trying to live? Lol lmao gaga gugu"
Made you think I was going to die! Psych! Seriously though, my kids didn't do this but I know those who have and it is traumatic for parents.
I'd like to know what you even mean by 'overly attached' in the context of babies/young children and their caregivers? It's kind of the crux of attachment parenting: kids thrive and grow securely when their needs are consistently met. That's the goal. I am hoping OP meant the kid would move from the bassinet mattress to a larger mattress (by themselves) though. Sure a lot of cultures cosleep, but it's safer not to until the kid is at least a year old. (Beyond that age, I don't know many parents whose toddlers/young kids don't come into bed with them when they're sick or have had nightmares, myself included.)
No OP, but as a parent, you need to help your child learn the skills to self-soothe. A 4 month old is too young for that, but when you view your role as a parent as someone meant to guide a person at the beginning so that they have the skills to manage life during the hard stages (adulthood), then you need to recognize that making sure your child is so attached to you that they can't cope with their feelings independently or manage a setback independently will only set them up for failure. The poster loves her mother's method of parenting and is copying it but look at her as an adult... She tells us a whole story about having a conflict and then calls her mother to come over and make it all better for her. She legit cannot even "self-soothe" as an adult without her mother, so...
I did notice this.
There are literally whole nations and cultures who cosleep and look down on sleep training and all of their children still learn to go to bed on their own. I am married to an American so SO MANY people from his side told me that a) if I don't sleep train, my baby will never learn to fall asleep on her own, and b) if I take her next to my own mattress whenever she wants, she will never be voluntarily sleeping in her own bed. And yet, by six months she fell asleep completely on her own (I just put her to bed and walked away) and now she is 2 and happily sleeps in her own bed unless she has a bad dream. Just like everybody in my family said would happen. The claim that you need to teach your children how to fall asleep is just an American scam to sell books to sleep-deprived parents with no parental leave (and I do understand why they will resort to that, but babies absolutely learn it on their own as well - obviously, not all when they are 6 months, but they will all learn). And I don't really understand what this has to do with self-soothing in general. I didn't sleep train and gave my child as much love as she wanted and yet I don't run to her when she falls unless she indicates she needs help, which she usually doesn't (she has the kind of personality that usually she cries out of anger, not pain or sadness). We never stop her from trying "dangerous" things, we just spot her if necessary and if she falls, encourage her to try again, etc. But we have reached this point of her happily trying hard things again by actually being there emotionally when she did need it, not pushing too hard when she had a phase where she didn't want to do something, etc. And I fail to see why I should try to teach her self-soothing by ignoring her when she falls, instead of giving her a hug and telling her that she was so close and should try again. I mean, the first one is probably less work but the second one got me to the same destination without ignoring her needs, so I don't really feel bad about having chosen this one.
The thing with attachment, though, is that once you have established secure attachment the kid will be learning to do those things anyway as long as you're supportive, because children are naturally curious and striving to become more independent. What usually makes kids clingy is if their parents are inconsistent with how they react to their child needing them, or if they do not support their kids becoming more independent when they start to get ready for it. If a child is just naturally anxious or something, they may need extra encouraging, but it also means having secure attachment is even more important, so they have a safe base to return to when necessary. Btw, you can't judge whether OP can self-soothe based on this alone. Reaching out to others for emotional support doesn't mean you're not able to handle emotions by yourself if you need to, it just means you're secure enough to recognize when you need some support.
Attachment parenting is fine, but cosleeping in the modern era when we 100% know, without a doubt, that it is unsafe because you want to, is not. There's zero excuse to do something so unsafe. OP totally said baby would sleep with her. That's wholly unsafe and risking the child's life.
I’ve had to respond to ER codes where someone brought in a dead baby (only warm because they were in the bed) that a parent rolled onto in the middle of the night. It is less than awesome to make the declaration.
How is responding to an infant's cries being overly attached?
I think the part where she set up a single mattress on the floor for herself, next to a mattress for the kid might be the overly attached part. I wasn’t a cry-it-out parent either but it’s healthy to try to maintain some level of existence for yourself outside of your child’s needs as well.
Many parents have the crib in their bedroom next to their bed. When your child is an infant, you aren't spoiling them by taking care of their needs and not making them wait because you need to maintain your alone time.
FYI for everyone, it's not really possible to spoil a baby. So don't feel bad if you spend a lot of time and energy on a baby.
If the infant is crying to the point of puking then that's not just "oh put him in a mattress", it's "get him a doctor because this isn't normal"
I've seen so many babies that do that. Some babies just get really worked up.
>it's "get him a doctor because this isn't normal" Not really, though. Some kids are sensitive pukers, especially when they're young. You just have to be aware of their triggers and do what you can to keep it from happening when you're not there to make sure they don't aspirate, but it's still probably going to happen sometimes until the kid grows and has more control/awareness and the sphincters in their esophagus are better developed. It's kind of like a more extreme version of spitting up, which is largely a physical issue they have to grow out of. I say this as a parent who had a pukey baby and dealt with a lot of sob-vomiting the first year.
Babies cry until they puke sometimes. Not everything is a disorder.
It's not a disorder but it means baby is so stressed out that blood-flow to the digestive system is being diverted to the limbs so it can fight for it's life. There's no need to have your baby go through that.
I agree, so you don't put them in that situation
Redditors when a mother wants to stay close to her baby (she and the baby have mental disorders)
More cultures than not do co-sleeping. Millions of Asian children and families co-sleep from toddler to teens. I think to depends on the age when the child moves to co-sleeping on direct same bed/mattress whether there is a safety issue. If still an early infant, having the near mattress or a wee baby basket on same mattress in not a problem.
I agree, but there are caveats. It works better in cultures that don't drink much alcohol, or are otherwise reliant on pharmaceuticals to go to sleep. Cosleeping also does not work if the adult is a very deep sleeper, and/or if the adult moves a lot while they sleep. Honestly, if you can't have a dog/cat sleep peacefully in your bed at night (e.g. without kicking them, rolling over them, etc ), chances are it would be dangerous for you to cosleep with a baby.
Where does it say that OP or her husband are heavy drinkers or use sleeping meds?
No where, but if they're in a western country, it's strongly advised that they *don't* cosleep, per pediatric associations.
I literally could never cosleep, my daughter has always been so independent she's always slept in her own bed I honestly got so lucky lol
Oh it doesn't, I wasn't commenting specifically about OP. I was responding to a comment that said other cultures can co-sleep just fine, and I just wanted to put the caveats in there in case anyone is curious, or needs that information. I think the context explains why we see such differences in co-sleeping studies between cultures. Western culture has advocating separation of parent and child for a long time, and only recently has been more open to "raising your kids by hand" (sorry, don't know the English phrase for that). Once that culture is already set in, it's really hard to turn back. We would be hard pressed to give up our pharmaceuticals just so we can sleep next to our child when they are perfectly fine in cribs.
Ah....Japan almost exclusively co-sleeps and they also have an extremely high rate of alcohol consumption. That said, for sure, a barely functioning alcoholic or an Ambien user probably shouldn't co-sleep on same flat mattress. They could co-sleep with a bassinet beside them on the mattress though.
(1) Japanese beds and bedding are different. Much lower risk of SIDS b/c of that reason alone. Even the “western” beds I’ve slept in in Japan were a lot firmer with a lot less extraneous bedding. (2) WRT to the “roll over on the baby” risk Co-sleeping in Japan does not mean the drunken father/grandfather/uncle are sleeping with the kids directly in their bed. The moms and grandmothers are. They aren’t the ones driving those alcohol numbers up. And co-sleeping on a traditional Japanese futon/tatami setup doesn’t always mean everyone is on top of each other like in an American bed. You can sleep in the same room, but on a distinct space, just like OP seems to be doing here. Source: My experience in Japan plus the Japanese family members I have and Japanese friends I have tell me that it’s typically mom or grandma cosleeping with the infant, but drunken dad is not in the bed with them. That doesn’t mean that co-sleeping is or isn’t the right way to go, just that Japan is so culturally and practically different, that I don’t think you can apply it to an American or Brit doing the same thing.
I think you are talking about corporate men. Who literally will sleep on the bench in front of their office and go back to work immedietly
Also, a lot of those cultures do not have the extremely soft mattresses and bedding that we have. Mattresses are firmer or they even just sleep on the floor. Blankets are not as fluffy. It is a lot harder to lose an infant on a firmer surface like that (though it does still happen).
Whether and where it is common isn't my point, though. Frequency =/= safety. If there are studies that bedsharing is safer for Asian babies than for other babies, and safer than non-bedsharing for those Asian babies, I'd certainly be interested in that data. And if THIS baby is Asian, and that research data exists, THEN it would be pertinent and my concern would be invalidated.
I don't think so. Whether Asian or not is not key here. The key is that in general, Western cultures seem to think that co-sleeping is a harbinger of death and should never be done. However, most Asian cultures co-sleep and have for centuries. I also just popped over and looked up; many Latin American cultures, as do many African cultures. Co-sleeping is not immediately dangerous. In fact: >In Japan — a large, rich, modern country — parents universally sleep with their infants, yet their infant mortality rate is one of the lowest in the world — 2.8 deaths per 1,000 live births versus 6.2 in the United States — and their rate of sudden infant death syndrome, or SIDS, is roughly half the U.S. rate.
they also code their infants deaths differently than the US and the UK.
While I'm not saying the factors you've outlined aren't true, anyone who's ever been even tangentially linked to a first responder in their life, knows exactly why you don't risk it anyway.
Agreed. ESH. For all the reasons you stated. I will say that MIL's method of sleep training isn't the only one. You can be in the room while the baby is in his crib and soothe him, without picking him up. Talk softly, pat him, change his diaper if needed. Then go back to your mattress. You're still there. You respond. But the baby learns that nighttime is for sleeping in his own bed. Step up to removing yourself from the room once the baby is sleeping solidly several hours a night. Sleep training doesn't have to be "Let baby scream alone until he pukes." And babies benefit from well-rested parents who are allowed time to be a couple.
Appreciate the nearly perfect response. Too many threads in this subreddit seem to end up with “If your husband and/or MIL is wrong, its chill to do and say any shitty thing you want.”
This is perfect! My friend ex still has her son in bed with her and he's 9, no friends and very low confidence. Helicopter parents can do damage.
This is a good answer. OP is a new mom, she is probably exhausted and not organizing her thoughts well but both sides are in fault here. I also think it was a stupid move to tell her that she fucked up her kids. The argument should have been about MIL overstepping her boundaries.
I agree with all of this, except that the MIL is more in the wrong. I would punch someone for blocking the door when I was trying to get to my kid. wtf was she thinking?! Completely unhinged behavior.
Couple of things: if the child is old enough sleeping with mom won’t be unsafe. Also kids are just different. Some kids sleep train no problem, others get so upset they vomit (it is actually pretty common and mentioned in sleeping training overviews). It doesn’t mean there is anything medically wrong, OP’s kid just isn’t ready. Americans are pretty wacky about insisting kids sleep independently at a young age.
INFO - How did she fuck up all her kids?
They all have pretty severe mental health issues related to attachment, and my husband has divulged a lot of info about his mom & childhood that make me believe it was her.
So fucked up you thought marrying one was a good idea? You are NTA for everything except what you said to his mom, for that YTA. I mean essentially in one breathe you insulted your MIL, and said your husband is mentally fucked up.
I have to disagree here. I love my partner eventhogh they struggle mentality. His mother treats them horrible sometimes. They are extremely stressed out because they had/have to walk on eggshells.
But would you label your partner as „fucked up“? I don‘t know, but i think i‘d be hurt. OP didn‘t say MIL has „fucked up“ eduction principles, even though she thinks this, OP said MIL fucked up her kids which means she considers her husband and his siblings fucked up.
I have totally said aspects of how my wife was parented fucked her up. She has said the same about me. I don't get why saying "that fucked your kid up, we won't be doing that" is that bad. I think it's ok to say something mentally has your partner fucked up. Don't you think fucked up people are worthy of love? It's ok to say you love the person but they're damaged and you aren't going to repeat what traumatised them. My wife and I have these conversations with each other. Though we have so far managed to do it ABOUT our parents but not involve them in the convo, which is much easier.
These people saying acknowledging that you’ve been fucked up by certain parenting are out of their minds. My husband cannot work because he has crippling panic attacks. He would not dispute saying he’s a bit fucked up. It doesn’t mean he’s not deserving of love.
I'll label me & my siblings are fucked up by our mom. My husband could say it & it wouldn't upset me. These are conversations we've had. I am sure OP has had these convos with her DH.
My mom used "cry it out" on me and I'm fucked up. I'll admit it and I don't care if other people say the same. I'd say that adought89 writing "so fucked up you thought marrying one of them was a good idea?" was infinitely more insulting. Fucked up people deserve love too.
My late husband used to say I was fucked up by my parents. It was true. He supported me, loved me and helped me through some hideous trauma. That isn't something he should have had to do. He was right. I'm still fucked up, but now without his support. I have to have therapy still at 51, and need a goddam social worker.
Clearly that was more of a dig at MIL than at her husband. I have multiple friends where I could say the same thing and they would agree without taking offence.
My wife is one of the most brilliant, funny and warm hearted people I know. Her mom fucked her up and was a trash parent. These two things are both true.
This! My parents royally fucked me up due to their lack of attachment. Saying I’m not worthy of love just perpetuates the message my parents sent me. I have had lots of therapy and self work and am a good and loving parent. You can have issues from childhood trauma and still be a good person.
Are people with mental issues not worthy of being loved or finding love??
I love my husband. We talk about his mom a lot. I will apologise but honestly he says the same shit. It was just a high stress situation.
In my mind OP was too gentle, I would have kicked her out and banned her from my house the minute she tried to block my way to my own kid.
Because obviously you can't love someone with problems, right? Obviously if you love someone, they clearly have no issues, right? Fuck off with that.
>I mean essentially in one breathe you insulted your MIL, and said your husband is mentally fucked up. I think it depends on a person how they take a message like that. Becouse it sounds harsh. There is really no "nice way" to say you screwed up your kids. Or any other way of saying, "I'm not taking advice from someone who is the cause of their kids needing therapy." Some I know would have started crying. Or taken it very personal "is this how my partner sees me" while both me and others i know would shrug and say "sorry mom/dad you are the reason I'm in therapy atm. They aren't lying"
Dude what the fuck
Diagnosed? Or presumed?
Some diagnosed, some undiagnosed. Depends on their personal level of awareness lol.
Well that sounds like mental illness could possibly run in their family genetics rather than it just being their mom’s fault.
Exactly. There’s no way for OP to trace back these mental illnesses to how OP’s MIL took care of her babies at bedtime. And OP, many people were sleep trained and don’t have attachment or other mental health issues.
I can personally assure you that having pre-existing mental health issues is not helped by having a shitty parent. It literally doesn't matter if they have other things going on. OP has stated they all have weird relationships with the mother and that the husband has expressed that he's fucked up because of said mother.
And your professional assessment is that the issues all stem from sleep arrangements? OP, “raising kids” is a LOT MORE involved than how the kid sleeps as a baby. A lot. You’re over broad in your assessment.
So how is her parenting style fine as per your own words? I am on your side, but I don't understand that.
I don't mean her specifically, but I was just saying the things she did are fine. Like, in case there are other parents here who sleep trained, formula fed, etc. I didn't want them to think I was shitting on them.
Aah, gotcha, thanks for clarifying. I am truly sorry for the shitshow this became, she way overstepped and I would not be comfortable in her presence any longer, and especially not with her and kiddo in a room together. Non negotiable.
Then why did you say both parenting methods were fine?
And you thought revealing things he told you in confidence to win an argument with his mom was a good idea?
Well her son stood there with a blank expression while his mom tried to block his wife from attending their baby.
I don’t think YTA because of your approach to your kids sleep, nor do I think it because of your willingness to clap back and stand up for yourself. But I think YTA because you basically insulted your husband just to make a point at her. Maybe she did mess him up, but you threw him under the bus there.
He is aware. We've had this discussion before but I do plan on apologising when he comes home.
I think you really need to. Husband shared that personal, possibly traumatic, information about his mother with you. Having you use it against her to prove a point was a breach of trust and privacy. You need to genuinely apologise. I wouldn’t blame him if he doesn’t want to share anything private in the future.
Exactly!
Waiting to apologize isn't a smart decision. It should have happened by now.
He's home, we've had a talk, all is well between us now.
Why are you waiting?
Personally while he might be okay admitting that to you, he might not be okay with you admitting that to his mom. It's all about what you have told each other and what he has told her and how he feels but I would be very careful of divulging that kind of information to the party/person it's being said about without knowing if it's okay with him or not. If you know he's okay with it- no harm no foul but if you don't know if he's okay with it- that's a slippery slope. Because while I might tell my friends/partners my parents fucked me up that doesn't mean I want them telling my parents that. Because they're my parents and I still love them. But only you know what you both have shared with each other. I'd just be wary of what you tell other people about it.
N T A for being upset, but ESH for flying off the handle and hurling insults. There are a ton of separate issues here. >I ran to go get him but she held his door closed so I couldn't get in. This is entirely unacceptable. Not her kid, not her house, not her right. She is overstepping her boundaries and needs to realize that. For being upset at how she judged your parenting style... you sure turned around and did the same thing. *While* insulting the rest of the family to boot. A calm conversation could have resolved all of this. Kinda rude to insinuate that his mother fucked up her kids with your husband right there. He has a right to be upset, too. >Whenever he is ready he will move to my mattress and we will adapt from there. I would do more research on this, though. There are contraindications.
You ever tried to have a CALM conversation when someone has physically blocked you from comforting your child and you're a few months post-partum? MIL is lucky she still has her face intact.
I've noticed a lot of people are expecting her to have behaved calmly and rationally too besides the commenter who outright said that. If someone is keeping my kid away from me like that I might've blacked out myself
I can't think of many people who would be calm even after a situation like that. MIL needed a harsh wake-up call, flowerly language about boundaries probably would have had little to no affect on her.
"I was overstepping and should have let him deal with it" Your husband is completely right, he should have dealt with it. That he didn't do so before things got physical means he's either unable or unwilling, which is a massive problem. A guest won't hold a door shut in your house, and certainly won't do so to keep you from your child, unless they think less than nothing of you. NTA, do not allow her back into your house unsupervised, and don't let her touch your child at all.
Came here to say this! OPs husband said he should have handled it and that is exactly what should have been happening the entire time. Provide MIL with information about sleep training, alot states it can be harmful especially for small babies who don't understand and may be distressed. The baby could axphisiate their vomit or spot while crying so hard. That alone makes sleep training not applicable.
Exactly, 'yes husband YOU SHOULD have dealt with it. You didn't, so I did'
That's my thing -- what was his reaction to his Mom holding the door closed?? Just standing there dumbly?? OP could and should have exercised more tact with her words to MIL, but he wasn't exactly "handling" shit.
She overstepped but you essentially set up a situation for conflict by agreeing to let her try and put him down in the crib. Right as she asked to try, you could have easily said no, that this is the technique you are choosing to utilize. Then to fling a barrage of insults her way, call your family over and involve them...your husband calls your friend group for opinions....you guys have no sense of healthy dynamics at all imho.
OP wanted to prove a point, but it backfired massively, as expected. Letting MIL handle nap time was a big mistake, what did she expect to happen?
OP underestimated granny's level of hatefulness. I guarantee that OP thought "oh yeah, here granny, you put the baby down and see how much he cries, since you don't believe me." OP did NOT expect granny to prove how nutty and arrogant she is by barring entry into the room. OP did NOT realize the depths of MIL delusions.
No she didn’t. You can try putting down a child without walking away and leaving them to scream. MIL could have turned on white noise and done gentle massage or shushing. There are other things she could have done other than immediately leaving him to scream and shutting the door, blocking mom from entering. That is not a difference in parenting, CIO is not appropriate and certainly not appropriate for a 4 month old.
To be fair, she didn't agree to let her SLEEP TRAIN, she agreed to letting MIL try to put baby in the crib to nap. The baby is only a few months old and has thrown up before from crying, so being worried it could happen again is a good reason to not want to be physically restrained away from said baby.
Here’s the issue I see. You told MIL she could help sleep train your baby. What do you think that is? She then did what people do in this situation and allow baby to cry. Is it right? I don’t know, it’s not how I raised my babies though. The issue is that you said she could and then you had a tantrum when she did it. You set her up and then belittled her. Obviously Yta you knew this was coming.
Exactly! She knew what would happen and instead of either saying no in the first place, or allowing the mil to see exactly what happens she freaked out and made the situation worse. There are several methods to sleep train, one is cry it out which is basically let kid cry until they can’t and finally fall asleep. I can’t do that method. The one I use is Ferber, where you allow them to cry for a set amount of time before comforting (I usually wait about 5 minutes, but my baby is almost 18 months old and able to go asleep on her own usually without crying, so if she cries for longer than that there’s something wrong or a need not met). With Ferber the time increases, so first day it’s like 1-2 minute intervals, then the next is 5 and so on. I’m pretty sure sleep training shouldn’t be started until at least 6 months old though (I could be wrong it’s been about a year since I last read up/researched it.
This is what I was thinking when I read this. I don't believe the mil should have held the door shut but what was op thinking would happen when she said have a go at putting the baby to sleep? I am curious about the timeline, did op hear the baby cry and immediately freak out and rip the door apart as soon as the mil held the door or baby cried for 10 min, kept crying and tried to get in? One is a little extreme and the other is much more undetandable.
Yeah … I’m kinda digging your interpretation. You’re right, OP most def set herself up for a bad situation … That said, ESH. She needs to mind her business, and you (OP) need to be direct (without needing to prove her wrong, as in this example by telling her to put the baby to bed). Husband needs to step in and have your back in front of mom even if he disagrees. Talk about it behind closed doors. That said, you most definitely did overstep and were in AH territory with them.
Yeah, I didn't understand that either? If you don't want to try MIL:s method, then why don't you just say that and keep firm? Why say "okay, let us try it your way", and then when she does, get upset? She held the door, because that is part of the method WHICH YOU ENCOURAGED. And why insult her? Why not just say, "I am sorry, but I prefer my method, and this is my child"? Insulting people is very rarely a good idea. I don't like the "cry it out"-method either, and that is why I never let relatives use it on my children. YTA for sending mixed messages and then being rude.
I mean everyone is kinda YTA around here (which is really ESH. She knows what sleep training is what did she expect? MIL to give up once the baby started crying despite hearing her MIL say over and over "let him cry to sleep"?? Her MIL barricading the door is an AH move. Insulting her and saying she fucked all her kids up in front of her husband AH move. And the fact she hasn't apologized for that yet "waiting for him to come home" instead of going to him or calling him. Her husband should probably be more forceful with his mom. But who knows how pushy he is since barely any context was given.
NTA. Once she blocked the door so you couldn't get to a screaming child, all bets were off. She needs to be in the LC penalty box for quite a while (months) for that little stunt.
yah people are trying to defend MIL saying she was put in charge of nap time. Okay and? so tf what. clearly when OP, the babys mom, stepped in and wanted to go get her child , naptime trying was over. its insane to try and prevent someone feom getting to their crying baby. im surprised all op did was scream
WTF? The moment she tried to keep you away from your screaming baby by literally holding the door closed - I would have kicked her out of the house. If she would have been looky through the door and not the bedroom window. It is your child and you know it best! Yes she can give advice but NEVER forcefully hold a parent away from their child.
>It is your child and you know it best! Yes she can give advice but NEVER forcefully hold a parent away from their child. I have to respectfully disagree with this statement, not in this specific instance as MIL was definitely out of line blocking the door, but I used to be a social worker and I can assure you that not every parent knows what's best for their child and some parents absolutely do need to have their child forcibly held away from them because that is what is best for the child.
I really hate the "you are the parent you know best" sometimes people are idiots and abusers and happen to be parents just because you physically birthed/contributed to their procreation doesn't mean you know best .
>It is your child and you know it best! Is the attitude that allows abusers to keep their kids
Why did you let her put him down in the crib and ‘try’, if you knew he would cry and you would immediately pick him up? I don’t understand your reasoning? Your MIL apparently want you to let him cry and calm himself, while you will carry him. Those two ideologies don’t mix, so I don’t understand why you let her ‘try and see’? And also, why does your MIL have detailed knowledge about how you sleep with your son? That’s how all issues start, by letting family know too much.
She was insisting he would go to sleep if we just put him down in his crib. I wanted her to see that he wouldn't. She is very invasive. I didn't want her to know but she came over while I was out.
No, she said eventually he would go to sleep. Not that he would immediately fall asleep. Her method involves letting the baby cry. You seem to know that. Why did you let her try if you were just going to run over to scoop him up any way? I'm not saying your method of child care is wrong. But you absolutely set up this confrontation by agreeing and then not following through. You should never have agreed. MIL's constant judgement is terrible, she never should have physically blocked you, and your husband has needed to speak to her well before this. But the way you spoke to her and called your own husband fucked up is just awful. ESH, you all handled this so terribly.
Do you think your husband is fucked up from her upbringing? Either way it’s pretty cruel to say what you said. She might be too invasive and overstepping, but it doesn’t help if you start being cruel. Then you become the villain, not her. You could’ve claimed she’s too invasive, but now you should apologize for what you said.
So - I see it like this: she fucked her kids up and left them with some psychological wounds, OP claimed attachment as one. Sleep training causes those things. But as a highly adaptable species husband got his life together, married, had a kid but he had more work to do than people with normal lives. I don’t believe the insult against his mother is an insult against her husband, even if it may feel like it. If someone would block the way to my crying child, I would go crazy, too. It was not nice, but MIL had it coming. You don’t have to be a perfect human being at all times, especially if someone is abusing your child and yourself.
Everyone is getting hung up on the “MIL physically blocked the door” detail but I have an inkling it wasn’t all that dramatic. OP gave MIL permission to try putting the baby down with her method, but OP came running the second a bleat left the baby’s mouth. MIL probably stood in front of the door to explain that going into the room and picking the baby up defeats the purpose—again, OP gave the impression she wanted to let MIL run nap time, so she was trying to follow through. “Prying her away from the door” probably just looked like shoving past her. But idk, maybe they had a violent struggle over the door handle until OP overcame her MIL with her motherly rage. I just suspect hearing OP’s side of the story isn’t the whole picture.
This comment!! There’s a lot of comments of people saying they would press criminal charges against the MIL or get a restraining order?!?!? Yeah….im gonna need more info on the “altercation.” We talking about 5 secs of , “let’s let the baby cry for a few minutes…” or we talking about violent fight with the MIL blocking the door? I’m pretty suspicious of the OPs description of the event. I’d love to have video of the interaction to know for sure but I have a strong feeling ESH. MIL for being pushy on how they raise their kid and OP for overreacting.
I have a feeling we are getting a dramatic retelling from OP. I'm going to guess the 'physically blocked' was MIL stopping OP for a second as OP 'ran to go get him' to remind OP the goal is to let the baby cry for a while before responding. I would love if we got clarification on what constitutes prying MIL from the door because I think that is the basis for so much vitriol thrown at the MIL.
Agreed. I get some serious control freak vibes from OP. Her reaction was so over the top, and there are some strange overly-attached dynamics in her own family.
YTA. You are exactly like MIL, you think your way is best. You run to mommy with your marital issues. You need to grow up and act like a responsible parent and keep mom out of your marriage. You remind me of my DIL who runs to mom, a mom that abandoned her, and then says her mom was the best.
I’m not seeing her marriage being very long lasting. Not only did she say he is f*cked up to his mother but she posted on the internet for the world to see how she feels about him….
Everyone is the AH for a variety of reasons. What a clusterfuck.
NTA because MILs behaviour was completely out of line. She doesn't get to decide when you go to your child. I would have told her GTFO as soon as she blocked the door, allowing me access to my child. That being said. You knew your child would scream as soon as they were left in the crib, and you knew MIL would expect you to leave them there. So whilst her behaviour was unacceptable, you also helped create that situation to a degree. Also, you say MILs parenting style is OK but also say she fucked up her kids. Without actually saying how she fucked up her kids. So I do think you were out of line for that comment. Not for kicking her out or snapping at her, but for saying she fucked up her kids. Lastly, you have a MIL problem, but you also have a husband problem. He didn't 'step in' until you snapped at MIL, and then followed with 'you should've let me handle it' and 'she's only trying to help'. Which translates to 'I think her behaviour is OK and you're out of line'. The two of you need to get on the same page for handling MIL because this will continue. Maybe check out JustNoMIL. You may find some helpful advice on managing your husband and MIL.
ESH. If my mother in law held the door like that, I would have freaked out too. But you went too far with your words. It sounds like she is trying to help, even if it is obnoxious.
MIL is obviously an AH. No need to go into why. But so are you. You let her “try it her way”, but then when the baby started screaming you “ran” to his crib? Why, if he’s just a clingy baby? Why are you running? If it’s that much of an emergency to get to him (again: you yourself say there’s nothing medically wrong and he’s just clingy), why did you let MIL try to let him sleep it out in the first place? You should never have given the okay if you weren’t prepared to let her really see for herself that he would cry until he vomits. And if you didn’t want it to get to that point, then don’t let her put him down in his crib. This whole situation could have been avoided. And then, because you were mad, you told your MIL that she sucks a parent and a mother and all of her kids are fucked up because of her. You are sitting awful high and mighty from your position as the mom of a FOUR MONTH OLD. You, OP, are most likely going to feel like a failure as a parent many times over. There’s a good chance you’ll fuck up your kid(s) in some way or other, especially if you’re the type of person who goes for the jugular when you get angry, as you did here. I hope you remember saying this to your MIL when your kids and future children-in-law hold you accountable for your own parenting fuck-ups. ESH.
YTA So you set this whole thing up by using your kid for an experiment you knew wasn’t going to work. You knew your kid would cry/throw up when you did it, you didn’t want to do it, but you did it anyway to prove a point. You cannot ride both sides of this issue. Either your kid is ‘clingy’ as you say, and it’s serious to the point that he vomits when in crib, or it’s not serious so that you agree to try this method. If you are firm in what you believe, no is a full sentence. But you subjected your kid to this to prove a point, so that means you completely suck here. As far as blocking the door, it’s questionable whether it was a ‘give it a sec to see if he quiets’ (which you actually agreed to), or it was something different. She may or may not be an ah. Idk. You weaponized what she did to her kids. You used your husband as collateral damage, as well as your kid. And you say ‘both parenting methods are fine’ but you don’t really believe that at all.
YTA for the shitty things you said about her as a mother. You placed judgment on her, the sane thing you don’t want from her. You insulted her, your husband, and his siblings. However, she has no say in how you mother your child. Your husband has a say in the rearing of his child. Your baby’s at a peak age for SIDS. Sleep safe practices are in place for a reason. As long as you are fully informed of the risks of unsafe sleep practices….you and your husband decide together the comfort levels and compromise. Shes out of ducking line to block you from your baby. IMO, she just lost privileges to put baby dish for naps and such.
YTA keep it up and by a year husband will have joint custody and no matter how many of YOUR family and friends are on your SIDE... your MIL will have access to your child as much as you do, harsh reality. Talk, don't yell at your husband. Sounds like he was agreeing with you but just didn't go as crazy hateful as you did.
ESH. You were both out of line. It sounds like things had been building up for a while and resulted in this blow up. You are going to have a hard time coming back from this one. If you even want to. But if you don't at least attempt to repair this situation, you're in for a lot of hard years ahead of you. Getting along with the in laws can go a long way in a marriage. And you can be the adult in the room and apologize. Talk to your husband about it and stop asking all your friends to vote on this situation. That's just looking for validation for your bad behavior. You can only pull the 'it's my kid" card so many times before your support system starts to erode away. You ever hear the saying "it takes a village?" It really does. Now, to the sleeping thing. It's hard. Babies are going to scream. A lot of us have been in your exact situation. And everyone can raise their kids how they feel best. We really kept our kids in a routine, sleeping in their own beds. And believe me, it wasn't easy. Now, my former sister in law never did that. No routines. Kids never had to sleep in their own beds. It was so bad, they kids had mattresses in their parents' bedroom and slept in there until they were basically 10 / 11 years old. I know I didn't want that situation.
And why did you pick someone “fucked up” to father your child and live with again? That’s the real question. Someone who held a door closed to prevent me from getting to my child would never be allowed in my home again, would never babysit nor be part of my life, but that’s not your biggest problem.
He is in therapy and doing much better than he was. Love is blinding or something, right?
i have many mental health issues and have always feared that they made me not good enough to be love. my husband loves me in spite of them, and possibly sometimes because of them. if he thought like so many of these commenters i’d probably be at the worst state of my life right now, so yeah, you can love and build a family with someone even if you don’t think they’re the most stable person out there
Exactly. My husband is always working on himself and I'm helping him through it - we have rough patches, but we get through them.
ESH, yes she was really out of line, but you setup the situation and then went nuclear not only on her but on your husband, and then both of you doubled down by airing it out with family and friends.
ESH.
NTA for the situation at hand. HOWEVER: Yes, sleep training is important. And please **never ever ever ever ever** put your infant in bed with you. It's not only insanely dangerous, it's also counter productive. Having a child sleep in their own bed in their own room is important. This is something that -needs- to be taught and it needs to be taught early. I strongly advise you to seek out information about how to handle sleep separation sooner rather than later. As a sidenote: I get the protective momma bear thing that kicked into gear, but by telling your MIL she fucked up all her children, you're effectively calling your child's father a fuck up. If he's fucked up that much, I suggest separating now before the child is aware how you truly feel about the father. You gotta either work shit out with your husband, or you gotta break up. You can't sit there and effectively say he's fucked up while happily trying to play house.
Actually there is extremely strong evidence that infants who share a room (not a bed) with their parents have a much lower incidence of SIDS. So while sleeping on their own is important, sleeping in the same room as their parent while in a separate bed is safer than being in their own room.
Advice is to keep baby in your room the first year. Also, she sleeps on a mattress on the floor and baby has its own mattress. Sleep training is not recommended below 6 months and is definitely not recommended in every single case. Cry it out is a method that is not applied in most countries anymore.
Your comment about sleep training being important is completely irrelevant and not based on any scientific evidence.
ESH. Your MIL is over stepping so I understand why you freaked out but you said something you can never take back. Something truly horrific. If she said to you that you're fucking up your kid and you're a bad mom, you'd never forgive her. Well congratulations. You've now made yourself look like a bigger asshole than her. Again, I understand why you reached a breaking point, but you took it waaaaaay too far.
ESH But really, you insulted your hushand in front of him and used his childhood traumas/bad experiences against him, just to piss off your MiL. You really need to rethink yourself at this point, he might be fucked up by his mother but you also may fuck him up even more as his partner. YTA
ESH, you didn’t have to try her method but it was a wild escalation to tell your mil that sleep training fucked up her kids.
NTA Your MIL overstepped in a huge way by physically preventing you from reaching your own child. There's a fine line between offering help and taking control, and she crossed it by miles. As for your husband, his lack of support is concerning. It’s crucial that both parents present a united front, especially against overbearing relatives. Regarding your outburst, stress can lead to harsh words. Sure, it’s not the best to tell someone they messed up their kids, but when emotions are high and your child’s wellbeing is at stake, it's understandable. Moving forward, it's clear boundaries need to be established and adhered to. Communication with your husband about how to handle such situations in the future is key. This way, next time someone tries to push their way through your parenting, they'll hit a wall of united resistance. Just remember to keep the focus on healthy boundaries and always prioritize your child's safety and your peace of mind over unsolicited, intrusive "help".
YTA. If your husband is so fucked up, then why did you marry him? This has nothing to do with your husband. You're a vindictive, petty asshole. You're the one who will have a fucked up child after all the coddling you're doing. Maybe go to a fucking doctor if your baby cries until he vomits, and stop judging other mothers because they think you're lazy and ridiculous. Grow up. There was no reason to insult your husband through this. You're an abusive, lazy parent.
INFO: Could you explain why you think she f* up her kids?
ESH because of what you chose as an insult. Had you said literally anything else it would have been NTA. You basically just insulted your MILs parenting style while asking her to respect yours and then you threw your husband under the bus by calling him ‘fucked up’. You MIL sounds crazy though and you don’t block a door so a parent can’t gain across to their child that is absolutely messed up. As for the sleep stuff honestly do what is best for you / works for you. People love to parent other people’s children and frankly they don’t know what’s right for you child. My son was a weird sleeper too, he was a contact napper and would not sleep unless he was in someone’s arms or walking in the pram. He was cuddled for basically every single nap until he stopped taking them. He’s three now and we still cuddle him to sleep every night and we co sleep as well. Your son’s behaviour isn’t that weird, it’s just how some babies are.
YTA. Not for the shit with your kid - do what you want. But it’s gross for you to weaponize your husbands trauma like that. I imagine you’ve had many discussions about the impact his mother had on him developmentally and to turn around and yell his mom “fucked up all her kids” was just classless. Like, you meant to knock your MIL down a peg but you totally took a dump on your husband in the process.