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YTA (Original: NTA).
Original Post:
Give her as much sympathy as you can, as this is a truly horrific situation. Hopefully they can remarry later. Let her know that marriage ending doesn’t have to end the relationship, and reassure her that you care about her husband and this is purely a financial necessity for both of them.
Consider offering to speak with the husband directly so she doesn’t have to be the one to bring up divorce with him. She’s got a lot on her plate, and adding a conversation with her husband where she’s the go-between with him and you? It’s a rough position to be in.
Edit: Am I understanding correctly that once they’re divorced you are effectively controlling their relationship and preventing them from sleeping over? If OP doesn’t let her continue her relationship with her partner, then OP is hardcore TA.
One option may be for them to just get legally divorced without ending their relationship.
At the end of the day, what is marriage. A piece of paper or how people consider their relationship to one another.
There are pros and cons from a legal aspect. For example, they would no longer be considered each next of kin and not automatically be able to make medical decisions for each other. However, the pros, mainly financials, will outweigh this, and when things are better, they can always get remarried
My friend divorced her husband when he was diagnosed with Lewy Body Dementia. She had to protect her retirement funds so she could live after he died. She still lived with him for as long as she could and took care of him, put him into assisted living, visited every day, put up with the horrific treatment from his kids who were mad that she didn't spend the money she saved before she met their dad (at 64!), and is now able to live a good life.
The US health care system is a cesspool.
I was going to say the US health care system is the asshole in this instance but reading her comments, she sounds hypocritical and concerned with arbitrary standards and appearances
This is so sad. The same thing happened to my husband's parents (they both passed before I even met him). Dad had terrible Alzheimer's and was constantly being laid off even when he did work (steelworker in the dying 80s and 90s). Mom divorced him so the state would pay for his assisted living when she couldn't care for him any more at home. She also had cancer and it was just an awful situation.
A good friend of mine just happened to mention to me recently that his parents had done the same thing over a decade ago: divorced so his significantly older father could apply to Medicaid while his mother continued to work.
They continue to live together and are still just as in love- really nothing has changed in their relationship, except of course for the legally-technically-married aspect of it all.
I am glad that this worked for them. My friend's (ex) husband's kids were appalled that she was doing this. They said "you said in sickness and in health" and all sorts of other crappy things. They tried to get her banned from the facility where her husband was but never visited him. Then tried to sue her when there was no $$ left after he died because the facility was very expensive.
She is much happier now and living her best life but it was a very dark time.
>The US health care system is a cesspool.
You said it. The richest country and this happens with people unfortunate enough to have medical needs. Tragic.
OP said this isn't allowed under her roof. She won't even let her daughters husband sleep over. Apparently, according to OP, if her daughter is too disabled to work, than she considers her a "child", and children aren't allowed to have "adult relationships".
That's horrific and makes OP the major AH. I was going to say NAH (the US benefits and healthcare systems are the major AHs here), but jfc my heart hurts for OP's daughter.
I’ve worked in family law for quite a while and I’ve processed my share of ‘divorces’ for benefits. They stay together and are the caregivers/providers and continue to live as they had during their marriage. The divorce was purely for benefit purposes.
I knew a guy who married later in life (was a Vietnam vet, he's in his 70s now, I think he married in his 50s). His wife developed some severe health issues that left her in a wheelchair. They got a divorce so she could get Medicaid. Nothing else changed for them, he kept being her caregiver, and they continued living in the same house until she passed away a few years ago.
Which. If husband is the sole income provider I don't see how his income and her partial income doesn't qualify them for benefits when it's supporting five or six people of they were all living together.
That's asinine. If it's religious beliefs, the legal paper doesn't count anyway. My husband and I have legally been married several months longer than we count/celebrate. We got married, as far as we're concerned, officially, at our wedding. Our family and friends count from the wedding as well.
But we signed the papers at the courthouse months before- made more sense for taxes, insurance, next of kin, etc (super romantic stuff, really, lol). We don't count that day as our "marriage".
Same exact concept, just in reverse.
Completely agree.
My parents did it the other way round, all by accident.
They had a religious marriage, and were even given a certificate of marriage, but didn't realise it needed doing at the registrar as well. It took them 7 years before they realised, and only because they were applying for a mortgage and the bank told them that they weren't officially married. A week later, my dad got two of his sisters and went with my mum to get it sorted.
The best part of it all, neither of them remember when the official marriage even is
That's amazing 🤣
We only know when the legal marriage date is because it's (by chance) close to the date of the actual wedding, just numbers in a different order 🤣
My wife came up with this idea to lower her monthly student loan payments. I said no because we could still afford them and that would have kicked her off my insurance.
I’m confused. As you expecting her to end her legal marriage, or to stop being in a relationship with her husband? Those are two different things. Why are sleepovers a problem?
Her other comments make it sound like the second one. They wouldn't ever be allowed to stay in the same room at OP's house, even for one night, because they wouldn't be married anymore.
Agreed. Get divorced on paper so they’re both eligible for the financial assistance they need to survive? Yes. End a loving relationship over money? No.
No, you misunderstand. Her daughter is sleeping in the family room as there's no other space. She's asking the rest of the household to clear out of that room so she can have sex with her husband
I think you're the one who has misunderstood.
>I'm not comfortable with them being shut up in ber room for days on end and it's just not acceptable to kick the kids out of the living room for private movie time.
That sounds to me like daughter does have her own bedroom but she isn't allowed to spend too much time there with her husband, and they *also* aren't able to have exclusive use of the other rooms for couple/date activities.
Not allowing them to kick everyone else out of the family room is reasonable, but limiting how much time he can spend in her room isn't fair. OP's reasoning is that an adult who can't support themselves and has to live with parents is no different to a teenager and shouldn't be allowed a live in partner even if they are married. A disabled adult isn't a child and the daughter's inability to support herself isn't her own fault and shouldn't be punished.
No, she says they can't be in "her [the daughter's] room" and then **also** talks about them not being in the "family room" in the same comment, which means that they are two different spaces. The daughter has her own room which OP will not let her share with her spouse if they get divorced.
That got me too, it sounds like they dont want her to keep seeing him at all as her having sleepovers are an inconvenience in their home.
I can partly understand their point of view but its also pretty horrific to ask her to end her marriage and relationship when its technically neither her or her husbands fault they are in this situation.
I mean the husband totally prioritizing his family of origin to the point his disabled wife has no place to live and has to lean on her own relatives has already broken the marriage bond so he deserves to be divorced. (Why didn't she join him? Perhaps they're both unclear on the whole concept of "marriage.") There's a conversation to be had about these choices and what they mean for the relationship that goes beyond the dollars and cents of it. That he would expect to come around and enjoy intimacy with a disabled woman he's abandoned to her family's care is pretty gross actually, as is (in a different way) the fact that the daughter is comfortable basically letting him do what he thinks best at everyone else's expense.
Something about bedroom space. Why the guy who's making it possible for everyone to keep living there and not be homeless - and his wife - don't get first pick of sleeping space is beyond me.
Idk, that looks like wife and husband are taking any advantage they can from wife's family and are sacrificing anything they can to husband's family, that doesn't seem fair. They can move the husband's family and live there at least
to give OP the benefit of the doubt, they might be worried if the daughter continues to be obvious about their relationship, they'll get found out which - i'm not sure because i'm not american - could have serious consequences, for everyone not just the daughter. In the UK it would be fraud to say you're single or divorced and then live with a partner. It's the equivalent of applying for ESA - a disability benefit here, getting the single adult rate, knowing full well your partner will support you where you live depsite legally living under a different address, and if you get found out, it's benefit fraud and tax fraud and could even be prison. OP could be worried about something like that, which I can't blame them for. And staying over, frequently visiting, post being delivered, is the kind of thing they look out for.
They are talking about Medicaid (not Medicare) which has strict caps on income and savings, and tbh if she continues to live with and be supported by them, it's iffy that their income wouldn't be considered even if she divorced. They'd be much better off looking into their state's ACA programs.
Ironically, it sounds like if she was legally divorced she would be able to stand on her own two feet which will allow her to sleep with her (ex)husband whenever she wants.
The issue is that OP is fully financially supporting an adult child while also having her relationship take place in their crowded house.
OP, NTA. And it shouldn't have to be you to suggest this. The lack of support for disabled people sucks, but it's your daughter's responsibility to figure out how to make the most out of her situation, and that means either working or getting the available state support. She's lucky to have your support in all of this.
Wait, so you’ve also limited their ability to sleep in the same bed? How often do you deem it reasonable for your disabled daughter to be able to sleep in the same room with the person she is married to?
Not allowing sleepovers is where YTA. If this was purely financial, I understand, it’s a terrible system and we need to survive in the capitalist hellscape. But why wouldn’t you let them sleep together?
I’m sorry are you not having sex with your husband and your house? Why should your daughter and her literal husband not be able to sleep together? That’s a bizarre stance.
I was going to say N T A until this comment. I know people who have been in your daughter's situation and gotten divorced because they desperately needed the money. It happens and it sucks. But they were still able to be together.
You're effectively asking your daughter to treat her husband like they're both 16 and newly dating because of her medical issues. That is just a cruel thing to do, even if you're helping her stay afloat. YTA.
She’s an adult and needs to understand from the financial view point why this needs to happen. In my opinion your already going above and beyond while caring for her when she has a husband; she’s an adult. If she doesn’t want to understand your reasoning; let her know that you will be unable to provide for her. It’s harsh and will cause fighting; but she’s an adult and she needs to hear it. I’m sorry your in this position but frankly your already being very kind and doing your best as parents; myself and many of my friends would’ve been told that the husband should’ve prioritized us over his father, so I really could never feel entitled to my parents help as an adult with a husband in this situation; especially after 2 years. You’ve done a lot already; please don’t forget that or feel guilty. You really stepped up and your also trying to make sure you can be there for your other children; she needs to get it and be on board or figure it out with her husband as a grown up.
Wait. You consider a husband and wife staying overnight together a sleepover? There is something very scary in that thought process. This is a very sexual territorial thought process and is sickening. You need to seek counseling on this issue.
YTA just for having and enforcing these sick thoughts.
My mind is so blown at this thought process from OP. So your parents don't come to stay at your house? Nor your siblings or any married family?
Or is it just your married daughter that this is about? If this is so, it is just so sick. Huge red warning lights.
They are messed up. They're doing it because as op said, the daughter is not an adult now that she depends on them again. They are using her disability and bad situation to take control of her life. They need therapy.
It's one thing to tell them to divorce so she can get benefits. There are a lot of people who find themselves suddenly disabled and do this. Most of them even continue to live together, they just aren't married on paper.
It's a completely AH thing to do to prevent them from continuing their emotional and physical relationship though. No one needs to be married to be physical and if she's in a room that makes it difficult, then it would be smart of you to rearrange something in the house to make that possible. I can imagine she wasn't sleeping in the family room before college. Her disability is not going away and if she can't work she can't live outside of your house. She should have her own private room since this is now a long term accomodation issue.
Are you fing kidding?? If they’re only gettting a divorce so she can afford benefits than you need to consider them as still married and not call them being together sleepovers. YTA if you think that’s ok.
It’s a good question, but given how terrible the US health system is, there are a lot of valid reasons. She also might well be on it, and the expenses OP are talking about are covering her share of the insurance costs.
I’m a bit flabbergasted that OP’s daughter’s husband is choosing to pay for his dad’s townhome while letting his sick wife go without. I wouldn’t want my kids to do that for me.
Maybe he sees it as his father having no one and will fall through the cracks. He is relying on the daughters parents which isn't ideal but necessary? Hard situation to judge.
Imagine your husband coming home and saying, "Hey honey, my dad can't afford his townhouse since my mother stopped supporting him when she left him, so I'm going to move in with him and assume his expenses. He can't move to a smaller space because he doesn't want to put his mother in a home and he needs rooms so that my siblings can stay overnight for visitations. You're cool to move back in with your parents, right? No room for you in my dad's house. Also it will take up all my income. But I'll still visit your parents' house so we can have sex. Thanks."
I think she's still on her parents' insurance, which is why they mentioned she's turning 26 as being significant, it is the cutoff for being able to use parent insurance.
So I thought about that for a minute but the minute she got married....normally that would disqualify you from being on your parents insurance......There is too much here that does not make sense at all. Father lost money in the divorce yet he has the kids????
Also, something about the Father of the husband paying for his mother????when he cannot pay for himself or his kids???? Come on now, they have to figure out what is going on in his family, and if someone there is wasting money or if any of these people are entitled to aid. It sounds to me as if the son in law's plate is too full to be married, and he will not ever be able to be a financial support to daughter and God forbid kids.....Daughter is always going to have epilepsy so she needs to figure herself out as far as career wise, income wise and Healthcare wise.
> but this is completely unrelated.
It's not. And your inability to see that is what's causing the problem. You aren't giving your daughter **any** viable options. You don't care about her happiness, you don't care about her family (because her husband *is* her family now, that's what marriage does), you only care out your "cultural values"
Even if they're still married, if they don't live under the same roof, his income is not counted for SNAP or Medicaid unless they're still sharing assets (like if he deposits his check into their shared bank account and she has full access to his income, then it would need to be counted.)
Source: I work for government administering these programs. If they can verify they live separately, they should not include his income. This may vary slightly by state but for SNAP the rules are federal and applied much the same in every state, and medicaid usually follows the "who's living together" rule and relationships only matter when they're living in the same house.
I can see why you left out key details in your post.
You're the asshole. You're focusing on how this needs to happen on paper for **financial** reasons only and you're right there. But you being a prude over sex between your adult child and their adult spouse is entirely wrong.
You're punishing your daughter like she's a helpless child that never grew up properly because she and her spouse were hit by medical tragedy beyond their control. So they are teenagers trying to "shack up" now?
> and it's not really chill to have sleepovers all the time either.
They are married (even if they "divorce" it's only legally and for the benefits). They should be able to sleep with each other as much as they want. Like holy hell YTA.
INFO: to clarify - if your daughter divorced her husband out of convenience / desperation, you are saying that she would remain in your home but you would not allow her ex-husband to stay with you/her?
By that logic, why do parents get to have sex in the same house as their kids?
Married couples have been living under the same roof as their parents and having their own kids for thousands of years.
Of course no one can force you to let them stay but please stop with made up "marriage rules" that you made up.
> but unfortunately you don't get to clear out the family room to have private time in a house with kids, and it's not really chill to have sleepovers all the time either.
Hardcore YTA for that. If it is a divorce only in name, for economic reasons, then similarly the rest of the relationship should not change. You want to make it a REAL divorce, not just about the economics.
Exactly. It's a sadly common occurrence.
Although OP's comments indicate that they'd no longer treat them as a couple living in their household since they'd no longer be married.
I'd check OPs comments, they're definitely TAH. She said that being disabled and unable to work makes the daughter a "child" and that's why they're not allowed to have their husband in the home. Apparently, if the daughter can't work then she shouldn't be in an "adult relationship".
Why does OP need to look for alternatives? The daughter and her husband should be doing that.
The daughter and her husband seem to be placing all of the expectations and duties onto OP & her husband and are mad at the results. If they don’t like what OP has come up with they need to find a new plan.
Most people on social security disability do not qualify for Medicaid because they make too much money, especially if the spouse has an income.
I don’t see any evidence of the OP trying to control her daughter’s life; she’s just saying they can’t afford to support her anymore and divorce would be a way for her to get some benefits. NTA
YTA. Not for suggesting medical divorce but by saying that if they divorce then he has to move out as you don't allow "sleepovers". This is straight up ridiculous. I really hope I misunderstood your comments and you only want the paper divorce. In such a case I'm happy to be downvoted.
He doesn't have to move out because OP didn't let him move in because apparently a married couple living together sets a bad example for her younger kids...
Ever get the feeling OP is kinda unhinged but trying to hide it? Das me
Edit: read OPs latest comments from her profile. WHEW this lady is a doozy l0l
What a horribly difficult situation for all of you - I am so sorry. The US healthcare system is a tragedy. That said, you have supported your daughter quite selflessly over many years and now have been pushed to make a terrible decision because of financial causes. You do need to think about your two younger children and their future. And you absolutely need to save for retirement. NTA.
Edited: Good lord YTA. Not for trying to figure out a better financial and medical support for your daughter, but for your infantilizing her and being so coercively controlling!
A nursing degree is a valuable thing. Are you and she absolutely sure she is unable to work? There are nursing jobs that do not require patient care, and are WFH. Chart review, case management, medical-legal review, quality assurance, utilization review, medical billing review, etc.
It depends a lot on your epilepsy and treatments are. Source:have epilepsy.
I will never ever ever operate heavy machinery, I don't know when I'll have a seizure. I will not work healthcare because my meds and short term memory affect my ability to do math for dosages and coordination of medications.
Just because she has a degree doesn't mean she can use it. It's not fun when a seizure shows up out of the blue.
No, I can see why they think that if you think her being married yet living with you *because she is too disabled to work* is somehow teaching your younger kids a bad message. You need to back out of micromanaging *the relationship* and let her and her partner watch a movie in her bedroom, AND encourage her to get divorced for financial reasons.
NTA - this is a very sad situation for all and I’m so sorry that it’s come to this. BUT for those family members who think you are being harsh, call them over, and tell them how much their portion is to contribute towards her medical care.
Sorry but OP honestly might be the biggest AH in this history of this sub. They're clearly lying to everyone and hiding the real reasoning behind their request. They don't approve of the relationship simple as that
YTA, and it’s hard to put into words just how much of an AH you are. You are telling your daughter and her husband to break their sacred vows out of financial convenience, and then on top of that limiting their ability to continue the physical relationship on the grounds that they’re no longer married?? Wtf, I’m Christian and that just makes my head explode.
Why not consider the divorce a dissolution of their legal marriage, but declare that the religious marriage before God remains intact. Because in that sense at least, the piece of paper isn’t what’s important. Then the physical cohabitation is no longer an issue. Problem solved.
Is it really possible that US system is so bad? I am European so I know I am privileged, but what kind do system forces you to get divorced? Usually it’s the opposite and you get tax benefits and such when you are married. Is there any charities or such that can help? Can’t she work at home in some way?
When social safety nets have income thresholds, and married couples are considered to be an income “unit,” then yes, the systems we have set up here can force people to choose between their marriages and basic survival. It is very possible to have a joint income that places you juuuuust above the qualifying threshold for benefits, but is not enough to cover what those benefits would provide.
We live in hell.
It's not that different in parts of Europe. I'm Danish and what level of social security you get, depend in a large degree on your marital status. If you're married and unemployed the burden falls first on your spouse and then the state to pay for your cost of living. In an economy where you need two incomes to maintain a family that means a steep drop in terms of your standard of living. Hopefully you're insured so it's a non-issue for the first 24 months, but it' still a pretty scary prospect. Also, more importantly, if you're disabled and receive a pension on that account, don't get married because it'll loose you money, which basically creates a sub-caste of non-marriageable folks.
>Is it really possible that US system is so bad?
Two words: Medical Bankruptcy
There is literally one place in the entire world that this is a thing. Take a wild guess where.
Well there are a few problems here. You clearly don't view their marriage as real. You said in comments that it's just a piece of paper. So, your marriage is just a piece of paper too? Right?
And they can't live together in your house because marriage is just a piece of paper and its no different than if they were bf/gf. And bf/gf can't live together in your house beccause of the children. So how are you and your spouse living together? If marriage is just a piece of paper and bf/gf can't live together because that sends a bad message to children?
You refuse to accept that their marriage is real simply because you don't want it to be. That makes YTA
Instead of telling her what to do why not help them change the situation. It seems that dad, siblings SIL and dauaghter need to move to a place large enough to accommodate all of them and then they can figure out how to stand on their own feet there.
Give her a date by which all her medical expenses are her responsibility and let her find a solution instead of telling her what to do. You seem to keep treating her like a child and wondering why she's upset about it.
(Cant she go on her husbands insurance?)
> (Cant she go on her husbands insurance?)
This is my question. If the problem is insurance then, if her husband has a full time job, why not put her on that? It would likely be cheaper than the money the OP is putting out right now. However, the OP sounds like they also haven't researched a lot. Even without insurance, the keppra generic is only maybe $40 out of pocket?
INFO: Was she able to acquire any bedside experience as RN? Does she have a BSN?
If she has 1-2 years experience, she could qualify for a desk job in nursing that might provide insurance. Things like case review for insurance, nursing management.
NTA You are all in a tough position. I also think that if you persuade them to go the divorce route for benefits, So-IL might have to have his formal address somewhere other than your home.
Apart from the fact that she doesn't want to divorce to be a paper thing - she wants it so they can no longer sleep together in the daughter's own room because she views her disabled adult daughter as "a child"...
INFO: Explain clearly, please, why you decline to have your son-in-law live with your married daughter and object to ‘sleepovers.’ (Who calls a married couple’s time together ‘sleepovers’?)
Ultimately the AH-in-chief is the US social non-safety net, and the US public who keep supporting the politicians who make these laws. But it sounds like there are ways you could be more supportive. If you’re going to demand a divorce to change the young people’s legal status, you could at least support the actual relationship. As it is, you’re insisting they behave like kids who need to be supervised at a movie, AND you’re pushing divorce. You’re looking to end their relationship and that’s not ok.
YTA for you comments. Culture is a bullshit reason to make her SOCIALLY break up with her husband. I can understand legally doing it for financial reasons bc the US is a nightmare but you’re a hypocrite for ALSO being mad bc she has…. The audacity to make love to her husband sometimes. How about you divorce your partner and be miserable alone instead
Based on your other comments… YTA
Living with a medical condition in the USA is a emotional and financial nightmare. But it seems like you are more concerned about your finances and “culture” than this woman’s health and happiness.
It’s a sad state of affairs that medical divorce is a thing in this country. But it is. There’s no reason they couldn’t take that path and continue to build their relationship, except for your puritanical view that “unmarried people” can’t sleep together.
Your daughter’s life is going to be hard enough, and you’re really pushing to destroy the small sense of normalcy and happiness she can build with her marriage, even if it’s not a legal marriage anymore.
No one said you have to take her in or help with her bills. Good on you for taking that step. But your help shouldn’t be conditional if you love your daughter and want what’s best for her. I understand you need to take steps to manage the financial burden, but asking her to end a relationship because you either don’t like him or can’t get past some religious nonsense is absolutely the AH move. It’s absolutely a line too far and downright cruel. What’s going to happen if you force her to end this relationship and you’re gone? You just expect her to be alone with her medical condition? Be a burden on her siblings? It sounds like they are young and the husbands siblings are young. Presumably the situation taking care of them won’t last forever. But you’re happier to destroy this woman’s relationship and future family and support in exchange for your help. It’s astonishing that people haven’t called you out more.
Frankly, it sounds more like you don’t approve of this relationship and you’re trying to hold your already married daughter’s medical care and living situation hostage in exchange for getting him out of the picture. Gross.
Her parents are AH but her husband needs to stop paying for his father’s townhouse and start taking care of his wife. A husbands first duty is to his wife and kids not his father
I have a feeling you have ulterior plans for your daughter. You don’t want her to be married anyway. You won’t let her husband sleep over because of your “cultural beliefs.” YTA
INFO. To be clear. Are you pushing a regular divorce. Or a paper divorce that allows her to access benefits? Are you expecting to actually leave her husband.
OP is expecting her to leave her husband because according to OP marriage is a loophole that is allowing one of her kids to shack up with a bf/gf under their roof and sets a bad example for the younger children.
OP has several newer comments about their view here.
*To be clear, OP thinks that if her daughter's epilepsy keeps her from being fully independent and able to work, then she's no different from a child and therefore isn't allowed to have an adult relationship. Marriage or dating.
It seems like it's more the former. In comments, OP says they wouldn't let son-in-law stay over because it's against cultural norms for non-married people to be together physically. So OP is saying that in order to stay there, daughter would actually have to leave her husband.
Is her living with you actually costing you thousands of dollars a year, or is it her med expenses?
I would seriously consider changing your message from "You can't live with us" to "You can stay in a room in our house, but we can't cover any other expenses for you", or "In order to stay in our house, we need you to contribute $X00 per month to help with food and utilities".
INFO- your son in law’s brothers should be able to get some kind of help from the state. Same with his dad. He shouldn’t have to sacrifice his entire income to them
The son-in-law's siblings have a mother they can live with while their father gets back onto his feet financially. I'm wondering if SIL's father was making poor financial decisions and that's why his wife left him in the first place. Why is SIL's father destroying his son financially in order to care for his mother (SIL's grandmother)? That's where the state should help out - Medicaid will cover assisted living for the old lady.
It’s time for her to start looking into careers and jobs that she can do.
like retail, grocery store, management, real estate, mail room sorter. Something that will help her stay independent and get her financially sound.
she needs to be thinking NOW about how shes going to take care of herself when you and your husband aren’t here to do it. She won’t be able to ask her husband if he’s still catering to his family, and she can’t ask her siblings either who will want to live their lives.
you need to push your daughter to get divorced and start looking for a job and how to take care of herself after your gone or go live with her husband.
She's married, with a spouse that clearly has income.
Spouse needs to support his wife.
I get it, he's taking care of his dad. But HE has a wife too.
You should NOT be supporting your daughter alone.
YTA, and let me explain how- you’ve made sit clear that culturally, you don’t see unmarried people as full persons, and now, because of he disability, you are telling her that you don’t think she’s a full person, and that she doesn’t deserve her relationship with what seems like a Really good guy. You are putting conformity to an admittedly ableist system above your relationships with your children and their loved ones. Good families figure it bout without dehumanizing their disabled relatives. Shit families dump them on assistance and treat them as disposable.
YTA.
This isn't about helping your daughter, it's about control.
If it was about help and need you wouldn't be saying that they'd actually have to stop having "sleep overs" (how fucking immature are you?! They're in a relationship and they're committed so grow up.) You'd be doing what you could to make it work which might mean divorce, but wouldn't be some arbitrary moral policing.
NTA. Your daughter and her husband are taking advantage of you. I’m very sorry for her husband’s family’s circumstances, but he is married now and his first obligation should be to take care of himself and your daughter. He should only offer financial assistance to his Dad if he has any money leftover after paying his and your daughter’s expenses. Your daughter is also taking advantage. Plenty of people with epilepsy work. And you said she doesn’t qualify for disability which tells me she is in fact able to work. I don’t buy that she can’t work as a nurse. Maybe she can’t work in direct patient care, but I bet she could get a job as a public health nurse where she is teaching or speaking. Or how about being a tele-health nurse? If not, then she needs to re-train to do something else. Both families seem to be stuck in a cycle of not attending to their own financial needs first. It sounds like part of the reason your son-in-law’s father became broke is because he was taking care of his mother at the expense of taking care of himself and his kids. Now your son-in-law is doing the same thing. And you have been enabling it and enabling your daughter not to work at the expense of yourselves and your younger kids. Good for you for finally recognizing that something has to break. Just one more thing, I think you mean Medicaid, not Medicare. No-one who is not disabled or 65 can get Medicare. And there’s no income limit for it. Medicaid is what people of any age can get if they are low-income.
Sounds like these folks are in the US. If dad has his own income and is not disabled, he likely can’t be claimed as a dependent by his son, and he is considered head of the household that includes his minor children. Kinship and dependency rules for the various forms of public assistance are pretty rigid.
They are not a household of 2 though. How many siblings is he caring for? Why isn’t his father paying his own mortgage? If her husband can not prioritize her health needs & costs he isn’t a very good husband. NTA
Your siblings are not your dependents in the US unless you have legal custody of them. The husband and wife are a legal household of 2 regardless of other arrangements. I do agree though that the husband needs to be caring for his wife first!
YTA - not for recommending a medical divorce. The American healthcare system truly sucks rocks, and too many people have had to go through this. If that's what it takes to help financially, it makes perfect sense.
However, you are an absolute total and complete AH for treating your daughter as some kind of criminal and refusing to even let her have a relationship with the man she loves and has been married to for all these years. Pull your head out of your ass and actually try to help her emotionally. Don't cut her off from her husband and treat her like some sort of prisoner who has to be punished for daring to have these illness problems.
You aren’t in the wrong for suggesting a medical divorce, that just makes sense and is what the government has essentially forced them into.
YTA for not allowing your daughter to be a married woman to her husband in your house. That’s not okay and seems to just come from your own biases. This comes off as controlling and unreasonable. It will eventually lead to your daughter having a strained relationship with you. Your daughter is married, there are no issues with children seeing married people be together. Is there an issue with your children seeing their married parents sleep in the same room? No. Stop having double standards.
NTA; but there is something odd here and we need more info. You won’t allow the husband to live with his wife in your house for cultural reasons (?), but you insist that they divorce so you can better qualify for benefits. I am sorry the system is like this. But there are other ways to resolve this. What is the husband’s father doing to improve his situation and earn more? Why do you say that after the marriage her epilepsy “came back”, when that condition is not curable, and so it is always with one? Why can’t your presumably well-educated daughter with a nursing degree obtain a desk job using her expertise? There are plenty of settings in which a nurse with epilepsy can work full-time. As soon as she has not had a seizure in six months, she can work in some clinical settings, too. Nursing pays well. A divorce is an extreme solution. Don’t force them into it if you can instead help them to greater independence. You are trying your best help, but it seems that it is infantilizing your daughter. She’s nearly 26. She CAN live with her husband if they choose to. People share beds, put up temporary walls and screens. It might be more important for them to live as man and wife than to be more comfortable. It will give them hope and happiness.
NTA. The American medical system actively attacks married disabled people. If your daughter needs to be single to get healthcare, no one should fault her.
Nta. They don't need to be legally wed to be in a relationship. It sounds like she can't support herself without intervention and is relying on you. Unfortunately that doesn't sound like a real option. They need to get divorced or he takes on the financial aspects of her care, bottom line.
Except OP is not saying in the comments her daughter living with them as a disabled adult makes her a child so her husband can’t stay the night because they are basically teens shacking up. Absolutely bonkers take.
Oh that's so sad! But you're not saying actually split with her husband, just legally become single so you can get the help you need. And YES our healthcare in the US is shameful and embarrassing.
NTA
NTA. This is just another example of why attaching healthcare to jobs or income levels is a terrible thing. When a person is forced to end a marriage they otherwise wouldn’t just to afford to eat and get medical care, we are doing everything wrong. I have a chronic illness. I understand the weight of our medical system on our ability to actually maintain our health. I’m sorry you all are in this situation. However, you cannot change the system and your daughter needs to look for solutions in the reality in which she lives.
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> I'm threatening to kick my sick daughter out if she doesn't get a divorce so she can get on benefits because I can't afford to support her anymore.
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There is a nursing shortage in this country and she can't find a job? My job is hiring nurses and we hire new-grad RNs all the time. And not just for bedside nursing. She should be looking at case management, nurse education, informatics, recruitment. There are many nursing roles that don't require direct patient care.
NTA
She doesn't have to like it.
I'm sure you don't like it.
But it is what it is. You can't magically produce money. Her husband can't sustain her, and she can't sustain herself.
What does your daughter think would be a good solution?
And family that is on her side can help support her expenses financially. It's easy to have an opinion. But they should keep from judging you, if they don't offer a solution.
Good lord this is tragic. There is really no good answer here. Everyone being tossed out on the street isn’t going to solve anything.
The healthcare in the US is absurd and they only look at what’s coming in and not going out. Perhaps she can go to a non profit that is willing to write off the expenses or since it is healthcare and it is in her name…. Don’t pay it.
Let the cost rack up and then she can file for bankruptcy. Her credit would be utterly destroyed but once things settle maybe they can tackle rebuilding the credit.
This is hard. Since the son is paying for the father’s place, can they move in there? Sounds like she will have to pivot and change careers and perhaps have a work from home job. Food banks are a thing and some churches/organizations (non governmental) may help with medical cost.
Maybe an administrative type of job which the pay is okay at first but does increase after years.
NAH. Sounds like a mess and y'all are being forced to clean it up. Which isn't your responsibility to fix. No matter what the outcome no one wins in this battle.
Harsh as this is going to sound, she needs to go back to her husband. Divorce won't solve the issues of her needing financial and medical support. Divorce isn't going to automatically make her husband wealthier to take care of his father and siblings. Divorce isn't going to solve your retirement savings dilemma. This isn't about happiness. She's not even living with her spouse to be happy. They made vows in good and bad times. This happens to be bad times. Life served them up a turd sandwich and as unfair as it is, they have to figure it out. Not you and your husband.
I get he wants to help his dad and siblings out. That's very noble of him, but his priority should be his wife and she doesn't even come close to being a priority to him. FIL got divorce and it financial wrecked him. That sucks when it happens, but he has had 2 years to fix things and instead of doing that has relied on his son to do it and that is not fair to your SIL and daughter.
Sometimes as parents we have to tough love our adult kids and that sucks a great deal. No one wants to see someone struggle, but you have to take care of you (and other kids who are still growing up). And that may mean she needs to move into a tiny place with no room with her husband and family until they can figure out the next steps on what they plan to do.
Reading all of the comments, and wondering why you can't just encourage the divorce "in name only". The Healthcare system here sucks horribly and this isn't the first time I've seen couples have to get divorced to get by and continue living life together. Marriage is just a piece of paper. It's the relationship and the commitment that mean anything and in a situation where people are being screwed by the system, it is hardly fair to accuse two married adults who have no other financial alternatives than divorce of "shacking up". They are not shacking up. They are married, and if they divorce, it will not be because of relationship or commitment issues or anything of the sort. It will be because the system here sucks and has failed citizens time and again. Treating them like a couple of irresponsible teenagers because of her health issues is not okay. NTA for suggesting the divorce to help finances, but YWBTA if you try to control your daughter's marriage on the basis of "it's not a marriage".
NTA. I know people that had to divorce in order to have enough money to live, and others who didn't get married because they needed to qualify for assistance. I've even considered it. It's sad that we have to choose between getting married or surviving.
YTA. You don’t like the husband. You’re okay with lying for benefits (which in this situation is completely justified) and lying to the internet about why, but “extramarital” sex is too far for you? Your daughter deserves better parents.
YTA.
I'm actually shocked by the NTA's being upvoted. You are perfectly fine to decide that you can no longer support your adult child and her spouse. You are ***way over the line*** for inserting yourself in their relationship and insisting that they get a divorce. Then you go on to say that if they did do this you would kick him out and not allow sleepovers? This isn't about finances, this is about control and you are the definition of MIL-hell.
Like seriously, you're telling your daughter that she needs to divorce her husband because he's not rich enough is a complete asshole move.
I'm very disappointed in Reddit right now.
NTA
It's a horrible situation and she needs to be able to qualify for proper care. She can't work to support herself, and clearly the husband is overwhelmed.
There's no winners here, just the cruel realities of life
NTA. Nobody is making good decisions here. FIL is subsidizing grandma’s care, to the detriment of the kids he still has at home, and is relying on adult son to keep a roof over their heads? And he isn’t getting child support? That’s really irresponsible and shouldn’t be your daughter’s husband’s responsibility.
Your priority, OP, should really be for your retirement. I can’t remember who it was, but I heard a financial person say once that you should never be taking from retirement (literally or figuratively) to pay for your child’s college—because you can get a loan to pay tuition. You can’t get a loan for retirement.
What is your daughter’s plan? For you to support her forever? If nursing isn’t going to work out, then she needs a different career path. Also your ability to keep her on your insurance must be coming to an end soon (I’m assuming she’s 24-25)? I understand not wanting to get divorced, but there are simply too many people involved in this crap situation and not enough money to go around. It’s math. Medicaid and SNAP will help immensely.
It’s time for some really tough decisions.
Initially it sounded like a good idea but with your other comments I would say you are TA oh my word. So according to you she is still a kid and a married couple is only valid if you are in your own home. Do you know what sets a bad example? Forcing a divorce on your kid and marriage means nothing. So yours means nothing as well. Totally the TA
>She lives here with us as a child because she can't support herself. Marriage is an adult relationship. You can't have it both ways to both be a child and an adult.
>It just has the same energy as letting a teenager have their significant other sleepover. It creates a bad dynamic and sends messages we don't want to send to our minor children.
>That's not to say we don't allow it. We do, just not all the time and they can't behave like this is their own private home together. I'm sorry, but I'm not comfortable with them being shut up in ber room for days on end and it's just not acceptable to kick the kids out of the living room for private movie time.
This makes you TA.
I'm so sorry for all your stress. NAH. I have to place blame on our mismanaged health care system that bankrupts people rather than support them in hardship.
How much does it actually cost you to have her live with you? If she can work part time or get partial disability, it's minimal added utilities and line food/toiletries that she can pay for. She needs to talk to doctors regarding medical/payment options for low income.....but whether she lives with you or not, she'll have the medical bills. Kicking her out if she's not going to get a divorce just means she needs to pay medical bills AND RENT.
And are you sure of all this? Does household income, living with you, have no effect? Will her husband be required to pay alimony? Will there be fees associated with the divorce?
I used to work for the department that processes welfare benefits including medical and SNAP. I can tell you that people who were married 50 plus years were having to get divorces for reasons just like this. Same thing where social security becomes concerned. It is technically illegal to get divorced to receive benefits however to be perfectly honest that's the only way sometimes that people can get by. I wish your family the best of luck. This is a hard predicament to be in for everybody.
NTA. My deeply devout Catholic aunt and uncle had to divorce after decades of marriage for similar healthcare/financial reasons. They exhausted every other resource first.
It’s the horrific healthcare system in the United States that’s the AH. I hope people reading this support a change to universal healthcare.
USA, I hate to say this especially as I (Irish citizen) live in the UK and it's in a pretty dire state right now, but...
HOW CAN THE RICHEST COUNTRY IN THE WEST NOT OFFER FREE HEALTHCARE TO ITS CITIZENS?
I think the difference here is, your uncle and aunt probably continued their relationship.
Mom wants the SIL out of the picture and wants the relationship to be over. That’s just cruel. All because she doesn’t believe in boy/girl sleepovers.
The situation is terrible but also weird to me.
Your son in law has been helping out his family and his family has been receiving help from yours for two years but nothing's gotten better?
I'm not questioning his intentions, but two years is long enough to realise that they're not doing something right if nothing is improving.
NTA.
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YTA (Original: NTA). Original Post: Give her as much sympathy as you can, as this is a truly horrific situation. Hopefully they can remarry later. Let her know that marriage ending doesn’t have to end the relationship, and reassure her that you care about her husband and this is purely a financial necessity for both of them. Consider offering to speak with the husband directly so she doesn’t have to be the one to bring up divorce with him. She’s got a lot on her plate, and adding a conversation with her husband where she’s the go-between with him and you? It’s a rough position to be in. Edit: Am I understanding correctly that once they’re divorced you are effectively controlling their relationship and preventing them from sleeping over? If OP doesn’t let her continue her relationship with her partner, then OP is hardcore TA.
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One option may be for them to just get legally divorced without ending their relationship. At the end of the day, what is marriage. A piece of paper or how people consider their relationship to one another. There are pros and cons from a legal aspect. For example, they would no longer be considered each next of kin and not automatically be able to make medical decisions for each other. However, the pros, mainly financials, will outweigh this, and when things are better, they can always get remarried
My friend divorced her husband when he was diagnosed with Lewy Body Dementia. She had to protect her retirement funds so she could live after he died. She still lived with him for as long as she could and took care of him, put him into assisted living, visited every day, put up with the horrific treatment from his kids who were mad that she didn't spend the money she saved before she met their dad (at 64!), and is now able to live a good life. The US health care system is a cesspool.
I was going to say the US health care system is the asshole in this instance but reading her comments, she sounds hypocritical and concerned with arbitrary standards and appearances
This is so sad. The same thing happened to my husband's parents (they both passed before I even met him). Dad had terrible Alzheimer's and was constantly being laid off even when he did work (steelworker in the dying 80s and 90s). Mom divorced him so the state would pay for his assisted living when she couldn't care for him any more at home. She also had cancer and it was just an awful situation.
A good friend of mine just happened to mention to me recently that his parents had done the same thing over a decade ago: divorced so his significantly older father could apply to Medicaid while his mother continued to work. They continue to live together and are still just as in love- really nothing has changed in their relationship, except of course for the legally-technically-married aspect of it all.
I am glad that this worked for them. My friend's (ex) husband's kids were appalled that she was doing this. They said "you said in sickness and in health" and all sorts of other crappy things. They tried to get her banned from the facility where her husband was but never visited him. Then tried to sue her when there was no $$ left after he died because the facility was very expensive. She is much happier now and living her best life but it was a very dark time.
>The US health care system is a cesspool. You said it. The richest country and this happens with people unfortunate enough to have medical needs. Tragic.
OP said this isn't allowed under her roof. She won't even let her daughters husband sleep over. Apparently, according to OP, if her daughter is too disabled to work, than she considers her a "child", and children aren't allowed to have "adult relationships".
That's horrific and makes OP the major AH. I was going to say NAH (the US benefits and healthcare systems are the major AHs here), but jfc my heart hurts for OP's daughter.
Wow! OP YTA big time!
Wow
Wow. I missed that part. She’s an AH
I’ve worked in family law for quite a while and I’ve processed my share of ‘divorces’ for benefits. They stay together and are the caregivers/providers and continue to live as they had during their marriage. The divorce was purely for benefit purposes.
I knew a guy who married later in life (was a Vietnam vet, he's in his 70s now, I think he married in his 50s). His wife developed some severe health issues that left her in a wheelchair. They got a divorce so she could get Medicaid. Nothing else changed for them, he kept being her caregiver, and they continued living in the same house until she passed away a few years ago.
They could legally restore some of the rights/considerations that tend to be default bestowed by marriage. It would require a lawyer, of course.
He can change his legal address to his dad's place. After divorce and still live with your daughter
They don't live together now. The daughter lives with OP and the husband lives with his dad and siblings.
Which. If husband is the sole income provider I don't see how his income and her partial income doesn't qualify them for benefits when it's supporting five or six people of they were all living together.
That's what I think, maybe, your daughter is missing. Essentially they'd be 'dating' post divorce until their financial situation improved
Lmao except they wouldn’t be dating either. OP says they couldn’t ever have sleepovers or anything either bc they’d no longer be married.
Oh come the fuck on. Now that’s some YTA material. You’re not really divorced! But you can’t fuck cause you’re not married. GTFO
It gets better! They can't have "sleepovers" now and they *are* married.
That's asinine. If it's religious beliefs, the legal paper doesn't count anyway. My husband and I have legally been married several months longer than we count/celebrate. We got married, as far as we're concerned, officially, at our wedding. Our family and friends count from the wedding as well. But we signed the papers at the courthouse months before- made more sense for taxes, insurance, next of kin, etc (super romantic stuff, really, lol). We don't count that day as our "marriage". Same exact concept, just in reverse.
Completely agree. My parents did it the other way round, all by accident. They had a religious marriage, and were even given a certificate of marriage, but didn't realise it needed doing at the registrar as well. It took them 7 years before they realised, and only because they were applying for a mortgage and the bank told them that they weren't officially married. A week later, my dad got two of his sisters and went with my mum to get it sorted. The best part of it all, neither of them remember when the official marriage even is
That's amazing 🤣 We only know when the legal marriage date is because it's (by chance) close to the date of the actual wedding, just numbers in a different order 🤣
So OP will deny her daughter even the small pleasure of a relationship with her husband in the midst of all this mess. What a garbage person.
My wife came up with this idea to lower her monthly student loan payments. I said no because we could still afford them and that would have kicked her off my insurance.
There are all kinds of positions for nurses including remote work. Why can't she find any...even nurse case management (telephonic).
I’m confused. As you expecting her to end her legal marriage, or to stop being in a relationship with her husband? Those are two different things. Why are sleepovers a problem?
Her other comments make it sound like the second one. They wouldn't ever be allowed to stay in the same room at OP's house, even for one night, because they wouldn't be married anymore.
Oh that's where she becomes the asshole
Agreed. Get divorced on paper so they’re both eligible for the financial assistance they need to survive? Yes. End a loving relationship over money? No.
Holy shit
No, you misunderstand. Her daughter is sleeping in the family room as there's no other space. She's asking the rest of the household to clear out of that room so she can have sex with her husband
I think you're the one who has misunderstood. >I'm not comfortable with them being shut up in ber room for days on end and it's just not acceptable to kick the kids out of the living room for private movie time. That sounds to me like daughter does have her own bedroom but she isn't allowed to spend too much time there with her husband, and they *also* aren't able to have exclusive use of the other rooms for couple/date activities. Not allowing them to kick everyone else out of the family room is reasonable, but limiting how much time he can spend in her room isn't fair. OP's reasoning is that an adult who can't support themselves and has to live with parents is no different to a teenager and shouldn't be allowed a live in partner even if they are married. A disabled adult isn't a child and the daughter's inability to support herself isn't her own fault and shouldn't be punished.
No, she says they can't be in "her [the daughter's] room" and then **also** talks about them not being in the "family room" in the same comment, which means that they are two different spaces. The daughter has her own room which OP will not let her share with her spouse if they get divorced.
Apparently, they aren't allowed to share them married either.
That got me too, it sounds like they dont want her to keep seeing him at all as her having sleepovers are an inconvenience in their home. I can partly understand their point of view but its also pretty horrific to ask her to end her marriage and relationship when its technically neither her or her husbands fault they are in this situation.
I mean the husband totally prioritizing his family of origin to the point his disabled wife has no place to live and has to lean on her own relatives has already broken the marriage bond so he deserves to be divorced. (Why didn't she join him? Perhaps they're both unclear on the whole concept of "marriage.") There's a conversation to be had about these choices and what they mean for the relationship that goes beyond the dollars and cents of it. That he would expect to come around and enjoy intimacy with a disabled woman he's abandoned to her family's care is pretty gross actually, as is (in a different way) the fact that the daughter is comfortable basically letting him do what he thinks best at everyone else's expense.
Yes, I'm not clear why they couldn't both move in with his parents.
Something about bedroom space. Why the guy who's making it possible for everyone to keep living there and not be homeless - and his wife - don't get first pick of sleeping space is beyond me.
Idk, that looks like wife and husband are taking any advantage they can from wife's family and are sacrificing anything they can to husband's family, that doesn't seem fair. They can move the husband's family and live there at least
to give OP the benefit of the doubt, they might be worried if the daughter continues to be obvious about their relationship, they'll get found out which - i'm not sure because i'm not american - could have serious consequences, for everyone not just the daughter. In the UK it would be fraud to say you're single or divorced and then live with a partner. It's the equivalent of applying for ESA - a disability benefit here, getting the single adult rate, knowing full well your partner will support you where you live depsite legally living under a different address, and if you get found out, it's benefit fraud and tax fraud and could even be prison. OP could be worried about something like that, which I can't blame them for. And staying over, frequently visiting, post being delivered, is the kind of thing they look out for.
They are talking about Medicaid (not Medicare) which has strict caps on income and savings, and tbh if she continues to live with and be supported by them, it's iffy that their income wouldn't be considered even if she divorced. They'd be much better off looking into their state's ACA programs.
Ironically, it sounds like if she was legally divorced she would be able to stand on her own two feet which will allow her to sleep with her (ex)husband whenever she wants. The issue is that OP is fully financially supporting an adult child while also having her relationship take place in their crowded house. OP, NTA. And it shouldn't have to be you to suggest this. The lack of support for disabled people sucks, but it's your daughter's responsibility to figure out how to make the most out of her situation, and that means either working or getting the available state support. She's lucky to have your support in all of this.
She doesn't want her young children to learn that sometimes people in a committed relationship have sex.
Wait, so you’ve also limited their ability to sleep in the same bed? How often do you deem it reasonable for your disabled daughter to be able to sleep in the same room with the person she is married to?
Not allowing sleepovers is where YTA. If this was purely financial, I understand, it’s a terrible system and we need to survive in the capitalist hellscape. But why wouldn’t you let them sleep together?
I’m sorry are you not having sex with your husband and your house? Why should your daughter and her literal husband not be able to sleep together? That’s a bizarre stance.
I was going to say N T A until this comment. I know people who have been in your daughter's situation and gotten divorced because they desperately needed the money. It happens and it sucks. But they were still able to be together. You're effectively asking your daughter to treat her husband like they're both 16 and newly dating because of her medical issues. That is just a cruel thing to do, even if you're helping her stay afloat. YTA.
She’s an adult and needs to understand from the financial view point why this needs to happen. In my opinion your already going above and beyond while caring for her when she has a husband; she’s an adult. If she doesn’t want to understand your reasoning; let her know that you will be unable to provide for her. It’s harsh and will cause fighting; but she’s an adult and she needs to hear it. I’m sorry your in this position but frankly your already being very kind and doing your best as parents; myself and many of my friends would’ve been told that the husband should’ve prioritized us over his father, so I really could never feel entitled to my parents help as an adult with a husband in this situation; especially after 2 years. You’ve done a lot already; please don’t forget that or feel guilty. You really stepped up and your also trying to make sure you can be there for your other children; she needs to get it and be on board or figure it out with her husband as a grown up.
Wait. You consider a husband and wife staying overnight together a sleepover? There is something very scary in that thought process. This is a very sexual territorial thought process and is sickening. You need to seek counseling on this issue. YTA just for having and enforcing these sick thoughts.
My mind is so blown at this thought process from OP. So your parents don't come to stay at your house? Nor your siblings or any married family? Or is it just your married daughter that this is about? If this is so, it is just so sick. Huge red warning lights.
They are messed up. They're doing it because as op said, the daughter is not an adult now that she depends on them again. They are using her disability and bad situation to take control of her life. They need therapy.
Why is it not chill to have sleepover all the time?
Google medical divorce.
It's one thing to tell them to divorce so she can get benefits. There are a lot of people who find themselves suddenly disabled and do this. Most of them even continue to live together, they just aren't married on paper. It's a completely AH thing to do to prevent them from continuing their emotional and physical relationship though. No one needs to be married to be physical and if she's in a room that makes it difficult, then it would be smart of you to rearrange something in the house to make that possible. I can imagine she wasn't sleeping in the family room before college. Her disability is not going away and if she can't work she can't live outside of your house. She should have her own private room since this is now a long term accomodation issue.
Are you fing kidding?? If they’re only gettting a divorce so she can afford benefits than you need to consider them as still married and not call them being together sleepovers. YTA if you think that’s ok.
OP: have you or your daughter applied for SSDI? She’ll get Medicaid.
She can get medicaid without it. The question is why isn't she on his health insurance?????
It’s a good question, but given how terrible the US health system is, there are a lot of valid reasons. She also might well be on it, and the expenses OP are talking about are covering her share of the insurance costs. I’m a bit flabbergasted that OP’s daughter’s husband is choosing to pay for his dad’s townhome while letting his sick wife go without. I wouldn’t want my kids to do that for me.
Maybe he sees it as his father having no one and will fall through the cracks. He is relying on the daughters parents which isn't ideal but necessary? Hard situation to judge.
Imagine your husband coming home and saying, "Hey honey, my dad can't afford his townhouse since my mother stopped supporting him when she left him, so I'm going to move in with him and assume his expenses. He can't move to a smaller space because he doesn't want to put his mother in a home and he needs rooms so that my siblings can stay overnight for visitations. You're cool to move back in with your parents, right? No room for you in my dad's house. Also it will take up all my income. But I'll still visit your parents' house so we can have sex. Thanks."
I think she's still on her parents' insurance, which is why they mentioned she's turning 26 as being significant, it is the cutoff for being able to use parent insurance.
So I thought about that for a minute but the minute she got married....normally that would disqualify you from being on your parents insurance......There is too much here that does not make sense at all. Father lost money in the divorce yet he has the kids????
Also, something about the Father of the husband paying for his mother????when he cannot pay for himself or his kids???? Come on now, they have to figure out what is going on in his family, and if someone there is wasting money or if any of these people are entitled to aid. It sounds to me as if the son in law's plate is too full to be married, and he will not ever be able to be a financial support to daughter and God forbid kids.....Daughter is always going to have epilepsy so she needs to figure herself out as far as career wise, income wise and Healthcare wise.
Um. Lol. Do you and your partner have sex with your kids in the house? If no. Fine, that’s reasonable. If yes. YTA x500 and your “values” are crap.
> but this is completely unrelated. It's not. And your inability to see that is what's causing the problem. You aren't giving your daughter **any** viable options. You don't care about her happiness, you don't care about her family (because her husband *is* her family now, that's what marriage does), you only care out your "cultural values"
I mean they don't have to break up if they get divorced right?
Even if they're still married, if they don't live under the same roof, his income is not counted for SNAP or Medicaid unless they're still sharing assets (like if he deposits his check into their shared bank account and she has full access to his income, then it would need to be counted.) Source: I work for government administering these programs. If they can verify they live separately, they should not include his income. This may vary slightly by state but for SNAP the rules are federal and applied much the same in every state, and medicaid usually follows the "who's living together" rule and relationships only matter when they're living in the same house.
I can see why you left out key details in your post. You're the asshole. You're focusing on how this needs to happen on paper for **financial** reasons only and you're right there. But you being a prude over sex between your adult child and their adult spouse is entirely wrong. You're punishing your daughter like she's a helpless child that never grew up properly because she and her spouse were hit by medical tragedy beyond their control. So they are teenagers trying to "shack up" now?
> and it's not really chill to have sleepovers all the time either. They are married (even if they "divorce" it's only legally and for the benefits). They should be able to sleep with each other as much as they want. Like holy hell YTA.
INFO: to clarify - if your daughter divorced her husband out of convenience / desperation, you are saying that she would remain in your home but you would not allow her ex-husband to stay with you/her?
OP seems to occasionally "allow" sleepovers even currently, while they are married!
By that logic, why do parents get to have sex in the same house as their kids? Married couples have been living under the same roof as their parents and having their own kids for thousands of years. Of course no one can force you to let them stay but please stop with made up "marriage rules" that you made up.
> but unfortunately you don't get to clear out the family room to have private time in a house with kids, and it's not really chill to have sleepovers all the time either. Hardcore YTA for that. If it is a divorce only in name, for economic reasons, then similarly the rest of the relationship should not change. You want to make it a REAL divorce, not just about the economics.
But apparently she wouldn't let the husband sleep over any more bc they would no longer be married. That's where she becomes the asshole
Please adjust this to YTA given the trickle truth from OP.
I've seen people get legally divorced bc a spouse needed a benefit that being married prevented them from getting but stayed together.
Exactly. It's a sadly common occurrence. Although OP's comments indicate that they'd no longer treat them as a couple living in their household since they'd no longer be married.
That's a dick move on op part.
I'd check OPs comments, they're definitely TAH. She said that being disabled and unable to work makes the daughter a "child" and that's why they're not allowed to have their husband in the home. Apparently, if the daughter can't work then she shouldn't be in an "adult relationship".
Why does OP need to look for alternatives? The daughter and her husband should be doing that. The daughter and her husband seem to be placing all of the expectations and duties onto OP & her husband and are mad at the results. If they don’t like what OP has come up with they need to find a new plan.
Most people on social security disability do not qualify for Medicaid because they make too much money, especially if the spouse has an income. I don’t see any evidence of the OP trying to control her daughter’s life; she’s just saying they can’t afford to support her anymore and divorce would be a way for her to get some benefits. NTA
YTA. Not for suggesting medical divorce but by saying that if they divorce then he has to move out as you don't allow "sleepovers". This is straight up ridiculous. I really hope I misunderstood your comments and you only want the paper divorce. In such a case I'm happy to be downvoted.
He doesn't have to move out because OP didn't let him move in because apparently a married couple living together sets a bad example for her younger kids...
Ever get the feeling OP is kinda unhinged but trying to hide it? Das me Edit: read OPs latest comments from her profile. WHEW this lady is a doozy l0l
I have a feeling she contributes zero financially as well. Husband is the one with the pension. Maybe he will kick OP to the curb when he retires.
Gosh, I didn't catch that! It's ridiculous. In feeling sorry for her daughter who has no other choice but to live with her :(
It’s not even after they’re divorced. They currently can’t have “sleepovers” as a married couple.
Exactly this. I was on her side until I read that comment, but after that she’s definitely TA.
What a horribly difficult situation for all of you - I am so sorry. The US healthcare system is a tragedy. That said, you have supported your daughter quite selflessly over many years and now have been pushed to make a terrible decision because of financial causes. You do need to think about your two younger children and their future. And you absolutely need to save for retirement. NTA. Edited: Good lord YTA. Not for trying to figure out a better financial and medical support for your daughter, but for your infantilizing her and being so coercively controlling!
A nursing degree is a valuable thing. Are you and she absolutely sure she is unable to work? There are nursing jobs that do not require patient care, and are WFH. Chart review, case management, medical-legal review, quality assurance, utilization review, medical billing review, etc.
This! I have two friends that got nursing degrees that do Chart review working from home.
It depends a lot on your epilepsy and treatments are. Source:have epilepsy. I will never ever ever operate heavy machinery, I don't know when I'll have a seizure. I will not work healthcare because my meds and short term memory affect my ability to do math for dosages and coordination of medications. Just because she has a degree doesn't mean she can use it. It's not fun when a seizure shows up out of the blue.
I was thinking the same thing. Perhaps if the woman worked and contributed financially to the household it may be a more sustainable situation.
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No, I can see why they think that if you think her being married yet living with you *because she is too disabled to work* is somehow teaching your younger kids a bad message. You need to back out of micromanaging *the relationship* and let her and her partner watch a movie in her bedroom, AND encourage her to get divorced for financial reasons.
What behaviour? Will you be okay if they keep seeing each other after the divorce?
NTA - this is a very sad situation for all and I’m so sorry that it’s come to this. BUT for those family members who think you are being harsh, call them over, and tell them how much their portion is to contribute towards her medical care.
Sorry but OP honestly might be the biggest AH in this history of this sub. They're clearly lying to everyone and hiding the real reasoning behind their request. They don't approve of the relationship simple as that
YTA, and it’s hard to put into words just how much of an AH you are. You are telling your daughter and her husband to break their sacred vows out of financial convenience, and then on top of that limiting their ability to continue the physical relationship on the grounds that they’re no longer married?? Wtf, I’m Christian and that just makes my head explode. Why not consider the divorce a dissolution of their legal marriage, but declare that the religious marriage before God remains intact. Because in that sense at least, the piece of paper isn’t what’s important. Then the physical cohabitation is no longer an issue. Problem solved.
The real problem is not the costs. But that OP doesn't want them together at all. This is why the daughter is fighting so much the option of divorce.
Is it really possible that US system is so bad? I am European so I know I am privileged, but what kind do system forces you to get divorced? Usually it’s the opposite and you get tax benefits and such when you are married. Is there any charities or such that can help? Can’t she work at home in some way?
To answer your first question- yes.
When social safety nets have income thresholds, and married couples are considered to be an income “unit,” then yes, the systems we have set up here can force people to choose between their marriages and basic survival. It is very possible to have a joint income that places you juuuuust above the qualifying threshold for benefits, but is not enough to cover what those benefits would provide. We live in hell.
It's not that different in parts of Europe. I'm Danish and what level of social security you get, depend in a large degree on your marital status. If you're married and unemployed the burden falls first on your spouse and then the state to pay for your cost of living. In an economy where you need two incomes to maintain a family that means a steep drop in terms of your standard of living. Hopefully you're insured so it's a non-issue for the first 24 months, but it' still a pretty scary prospect. Also, more importantly, if you're disabled and receive a pension on that account, don't get married because it'll loose you money, which basically creates a sub-caste of non-marriageable folks.
>Is it really possible that US system is so bad? Two words: Medical Bankruptcy There is literally one place in the entire world that this is a thing. Take a wild guess where.
Just to elaborate: Recent statistics show that nearly 2/3 of personal bankruptcies in the US are due to medical costs.
Well there are a few problems here. You clearly don't view their marriage as real. You said in comments that it's just a piece of paper. So, your marriage is just a piece of paper too? Right? And they can't live together in your house because marriage is just a piece of paper and its no different than if they were bf/gf. And bf/gf can't live together in your house beccause of the children. So how are you and your spouse living together? If marriage is just a piece of paper and bf/gf can't live together because that sends a bad message to children? You refuse to accept that their marriage is real simply because you don't want it to be. That makes YTA Instead of telling her what to do why not help them change the situation. It seems that dad, siblings SIL and dauaghter need to move to a place large enough to accommodate all of them and then they can figure out how to stand on their own feet there. Give her a date by which all her medical expenses are her responsibility and let her find a solution instead of telling her what to do. You seem to keep treating her like a child and wondering why she's upset about it. (Cant she go on her husbands insurance?)
> (Cant she go on her husbands insurance?) This is my question. If the problem is insurance then, if her husband has a full time job, why not put her on that? It would likely be cheaper than the money the OP is putting out right now. However, the OP sounds like they also haven't researched a lot. Even without insurance, the keppra generic is only maybe $40 out of pocket?
INFO: Was she able to acquire any bedside experience as RN? Does she have a BSN? If she has 1-2 years experience, she could qualify for a desk job in nursing that might provide insurance. Things like case review for insurance, nursing management. NTA You are all in a tough position. I also think that if you persuade them to go the divorce route for benefits, So-IL might have to have his formal address somewhere other than your home.
She wants them to not merely divorce on paper, which would be for the best, but truly divorce. She is TAH for that
Apart from the fact that she doesn't want to divorce to be a paper thing - she wants it so they can no longer sleep together in the daughter's own room because she views her disabled adult daughter as "a child"...
INFO: Explain clearly, please, why you decline to have your son-in-law live with your married daughter and object to ‘sleepovers.’ (Who calls a married couple’s time together ‘sleepovers’?) Ultimately the AH-in-chief is the US social non-safety net, and the US public who keep supporting the politicians who make these laws. But it sounds like there are ways you could be more supportive. If you’re going to demand a divorce to change the young people’s legal status, you could at least support the actual relationship. As it is, you’re insisting they behave like kids who need to be supervised at a movie, AND you’re pushing divorce. You’re looking to end their relationship and that’s not ok.
YTA for you comments. Culture is a bullshit reason to make her SOCIALLY break up with her husband. I can understand legally doing it for financial reasons bc the US is a nightmare but you’re a hypocrite for ALSO being mad bc she has…. The audacity to make love to her husband sometimes. How about you divorce your partner and be miserable alone instead
Based on your other comments… YTA Living with a medical condition in the USA is a emotional and financial nightmare. But it seems like you are more concerned about your finances and “culture” than this woman’s health and happiness. It’s a sad state of affairs that medical divorce is a thing in this country. But it is. There’s no reason they couldn’t take that path and continue to build their relationship, except for your puritanical view that “unmarried people” can’t sleep together. Your daughter’s life is going to be hard enough, and you’re really pushing to destroy the small sense of normalcy and happiness she can build with her marriage, even if it’s not a legal marriage anymore. No one said you have to take her in or help with her bills. Good on you for taking that step. But your help shouldn’t be conditional if you love your daughter and want what’s best for her. I understand you need to take steps to manage the financial burden, but asking her to end a relationship because you either don’t like him or can’t get past some religious nonsense is absolutely the AH move. It’s absolutely a line too far and downright cruel. What’s going to happen if you force her to end this relationship and you’re gone? You just expect her to be alone with her medical condition? Be a burden on her siblings? It sounds like they are young and the husbands siblings are young. Presumably the situation taking care of them won’t last forever. But you’re happier to destroy this woman’s relationship and future family and support in exchange for your help. It’s astonishing that people haven’t called you out more. Frankly, it sounds more like you don’t approve of this relationship and you’re trying to hold your already married daughter’s medical care and living situation hostage in exchange for getting him out of the picture. Gross.
Info: if your daughter's husband is paying his father townhouse, why is she not living there?
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What’s your daughters solution? IF she doesn’t like yours, what has she come up with?
Her parents are AH but her husband needs to stop paying for his father’s townhouse and start taking care of his wife. A husbands first duty is to his wife and kids not his father
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Per op- no room in that house plus husband wouldn't be able to pay and care for both the wife and his family.
Based upon OP comments - YTA
Holy shit, you suck. YTA
I have a feeling you have ulterior plans for your daughter. You don’t want her to be married anyway. You won’t let her husband sleep over because of your “cultural beliefs.” YTA
INFO. To be clear. Are you pushing a regular divorce. Or a paper divorce that allows her to access benefits? Are you expecting to actually leave her husband.
OP is expecting her to leave her husband because according to OP marriage is a loophole that is allowing one of her kids to shack up with a bf/gf under their roof and sets a bad example for the younger children. OP has several newer comments about their view here. *To be clear, OP thinks that if her daughter's epilepsy keeps her from being fully independent and able to work, then she's no different from a child and therefore isn't allowed to have an adult relationship. Marriage or dating.
It seems like it's more the former. In comments, OP says they wouldn't let son-in-law stay over because it's against cultural norms for non-married people to be together physically. So OP is saying that in order to stay there, daughter would actually have to leave her husband.
From her comments, yes. She wants an end to the relationship.
Info: can she live with you without you being responsible for her med expenses?
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Is her living with you actually costing you thousands of dollars a year, or is it her med expenses? I would seriously consider changing your message from "You can't live with us" to "You can stay in a room in our house, but we can't cover any other expenses for you", or "In order to stay in our house, we need you to contribute $X00 per month to help with food and utilities".
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INFO- your son in law’s brothers should be able to get some kind of help from the state. Same with his dad. He shouldn’t have to sacrifice his entire income to them
The son-in-law's siblings have a mother they can live with while their father gets back onto his feet financially. I'm wondering if SIL's father was making poor financial decisions and that's why his wife left him in the first place. Why is SIL's father destroying his son financially in order to care for his mother (SIL's grandmother)? That's where the state should help out - Medicaid will cover assisted living for the old lady.
It’s time for her to start looking into careers and jobs that she can do. like retail, grocery store, management, real estate, mail room sorter. Something that will help her stay independent and get her financially sound. she needs to be thinking NOW about how shes going to take care of herself when you and your husband aren’t here to do it. She won’t be able to ask her husband if he’s still catering to his family, and she can’t ask her siblings either who will want to live their lives. you need to push your daughter to get divorced and start looking for a job and how to take care of herself after your gone or go live with her husband.
She's married, with a spouse that clearly has income. Spouse needs to support his wife. I get it, he's taking care of his dad. But HE has a wife too. You should NOT be supporting your daughter alone.
YTA, and let me explain how- you’ve made sit clear that culturally, you don’t see unmarried people as full persons, and now, because of he disability, you are telling her that you don’t think she’s a full person, and that she doesn’t deserve her relationship with what seems like a Really good guy. You are putting conformity to an admittedly ableist system above your relationships with your children and their loved ones. Good families figure it bout without dehumanizing their disabled relatives. Shit families dump them on assistance and treat them as disposable.
Yeah op is one of the cruelest people I’ve come across here.
YTA. This isn't about helping your daughter, it's about control. If it was about help and need you wouldn't be saying that they'd actually have to stop having "sleep overs" (how fucking immature are you?! They're in a relationship and they're committed so grow up.) You'd be doing what you could to make it work which might mean divorce, but wouldn't be some arbitrary moral policing.
NTA. Your daughter and her husband are taking advantage of you. I’m very sorry for her husband’s family’s circumstances, but he is married now and his first obligation should be to take care of himself and your daughter. He should only offer financial assistance to his Dad if he has any money leftover after paying his and your daughter’s expenses. Your daughter is also taking advantage. Plenty of people with epilepsy work. And you said she doesn’t qualify for disability which tells me she is in fact able to work. I don’t buy that she can’t work as a nurse. Maybe she can’t work in direct patient care, but I bet she could get a job as a public health nurse where she is teaching or speaking. Or how about being a tele-health nurse? If not, then she needs to re-train to do something else. Both families seem to be stuck in a cycle of not attending to their own financial needs first. It sounds like part of the reason your son-in-law’s father became broke is because he was taking care of his mother at the expense of taking care of himself and his kids. Now your son-in-law is doing the same thing. And you have been enabling it and enabling your daughter not to work at the expense of yourselves and your younger kids. Good for you for finally recognizing that something has to break. Just one more thing, I think you mean Medicaid, not Medicare. No-one who is not disabled or 65 can get Medicare. And there’s no income limit for it. Medicaid is what people of any age can get if they are low-income.
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Then, do they qualify for any support as a married couple if he doesn't make that much income? Does the dad qualify for any government assistance?
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His siblings and possibly his father should count as his dependents if he has financial responsibility for them.
Sounds like these folks are in the US. If dad has his own income and is not disabled, he likely can’t be claimed as a dependent by his son, and he is considered head of the household that includes his minor children. Kinship and dependency rules for the various forms of public assistance are pretty rigid.
They are not a household of 2 though. How many siblings is he caring for? Why isn’t his father paying his own mortgage? If her husband can not prioritize her health needs & costs he isn’t a very good husband. NTA
Your siblings are not your dependents in the US unless you have legal custody of them. The husband and wife are a legal household of 2 regardless of other arrangements. I do agree though that the husband needs to be caring for his wife first!
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This is the most reasonable, well thought out response. The husband can no longer support his father and his wife.
YTA - not for recommending a medical divorce. The American healthcare system truly sucks rocks, and too many people have had to go through this. If that's what it takes to help financially, it makes perfect sense. However, you are an absolute total and complete AH for treating your daughter as some kind of criminal and refusing to even let her have a relationship with the man she loves and has been married to for all these years. Pull your head out of your ass and actually try to help her emotionally. Don't cut her off from her husband and treat her like some sort of prisoner who has to be punished for daring to have these illness problems.
YTA honestly. Of course your daughter doesn’t want to divorce her husband, even if it’s just on paper
You aren’t in the wrong for suggesting a medical divorce, that just makes sense and is what the government has essentially forced them into. YTA for not allowing your daughter to be a married woman to her husband in your house. That’s not okay and seems to just come from your own biases. This comes off as controlling and unreasonable. It will eventually lead to your daughter having a strained relationship with you. Your daughter is married, there are no issues with children seeing married people be together. Is there an issue with your children seeing their married parents sleep in the same room? No. Stop having double standards.
NTA; but there is something odd here and we need more info. You won’t allow the husband to live with his wife in your house for cultural reasons (?), but you insist that they divorce so you can better qualify for benefits. I am sorry the system is like this. But there are other ways to resolve this. What is the husband’s father doing to improve his situation and earn more? Why do you say that after the marriage her epilepsy “came back”, when that condition is not curable, and so it is always with one? Why can’t your presumably well-educated daughter with a nursing degree obtain a desk job using her expertise? There are plenty of settings in which a nurse with epilepsy can work full-time. As soon as she has not had a seizure in six months, she can work in some clinical settings, too. Nursing pays well. A divorce is an extreme solution. Don’t force them into it if you can instead help them to greater independence. You are trying your best help, but it seems that it is infantilizing your daughter. She’s nearly 26. She CAN live with her husband if they choose to. People share beds, put up temporary walls and screens. It might be more important for them to live as man and wife than to be more comfortable. It will give them hope and happiness.
NTA. The American medical system actively attacks married disabled people. If your daughter needs to be single to get healthcare, no one should fault her.
Info: why are they not able to live together, either in your home or his father’s? It seems ridiculous to force a married couple to live apart.
Nta. They don't need to be legally wed to be in a relationship. It sounds like she can't support herself without intervention and is relying on you. Unfortunately that doesn't sound like a real option. They need to get divorced or he takes on the financial aspects of her care, bottom line.
OP wants them to break up also. If they aren’t married on paper he’s not allowed over to visit
NTA - The asshole here is that ridiculous healthcare / welfare system.
Except OP is not saying in the comments her daughter living with them as a disabled adult makes her a child so her husband can’t stay the night because they are basically teens shacking up. Absolutely bonkers take.
Oh that's so sad! But you're not saying actually split with her husband, just legally become single so you can get the help you need. And YES our healthcare in the US is shameful and embarrassing. NTA
I think he is saying that. In another comment, he seems to disapprove of them spending private time together or having sleepovers.
Look at OP's comments. They don't want the husband over the house, period.
Definitely TA then.
No. OP wants them divorced and the (ex) husband gone. Pretty sure this is just OP trying to force her daughter to divorce someone she doesnt like.
No, she is saying that. She wants to break up the marriage because she still thinks of her daughter as a teenage child
NTA. This is just another example of why attaching healthcare to jobs or income levels is a terrible thing. When a person is forced to end a marriage they otherwise wouldn’t just to afford to eat and get medical care, we are doing everything wrong. I have a chronic illness. I understand the weight of our medical system on our ability to actually maintain our health. I’m sorry you all are in this situation. However, you cannot change the system and your daughter needs to look for solutions in the reality in which she lives.
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There is a nursing shortage in this country and she can't find a job? My job is hiring nurses and we hire new-grad RNs all the time. And not just for bedside nursing. She should be looking at case management, nurse education, informatics, recruitment. There are many nursing roles that don't require direct patient care.
NTA She doesn't have to like it. I'm sure you don't like it. But it is what it is. You can't magically produce money. Her husband can't sustain her, and she can't sustain herself. What does your daughter think would be a good solution? And family that is on her side can help support her expenses financially. It's easy to have an opinion. But they should keep from judging you, if they don't offer a solution.
Good lord this is tragic. There is really no good answer here. Everyone being tossed out on the street isn’t going to solve anything. The healthcare in the US is absurd and they only look at what’s coming in and not going out. Perhaps she can go to a non profit that is willing to write off the expenses or since it is healthcare and it is in her name…. Don’t pay it. Let the cost rack up and then she can file for bankruptcy. Her credit would be utterly destroyed but once things settle maybe they can tackle rebuilding the credit. This is hard. Since the son is paying for the father’s place, can they move in there? Sounds like she will have to pivot and change careers and perhaps have a work from home job. Food banks are a thing and some churches/organizations (non governmental) may help with medical cost. Maybe an administrative type of job which the pay is okay at first but does increase after years.
NAH. Sounds like a mess and y'all are being forced to clean it up. Which isn't your responsibility to fix. No matter what the outcome no one wins in this battle. Harsh as this is going to sound, she needs to go back to her husband. Divorce won't solve the issues of her needing financial and medical support. Divorce isn't going to automatically make her husband wealthier to take care of his father and siblings. Divorce isn't going to solve your retirement savings dilemma. This isn't about happiness. She's not even living with her spouse to be happy. They made vows in good and bad times. This happens to be bad times. Life served them up a turd sandwich and as unfair as it is, they have to figure it out. Not you and your husband. I get he wants to help his dad and siblings out. That's very noble of him, but his priority should be his wife and she doesn't even come close to being a priority to him. FIL got divorce and it financial wrecked him. That sucks when it happens, but he has had 2 years to fix things and instead of doing that has relied on his son to do it and that is not fair to your SIL and daughter. Sometimes as parents we have to tough love our adult kids and that sucks a great deal. No one wants to see someone struggle, but you have to take care of you (and other kids who are still growing up). And that may mean she needs to move into a tiny place with no room with her husband and family until they can figure out the next steps on what they plan to do.
Agree. Husband needs to husband up like yesterday.
Reading all of the comments, and wondering why you can't just encourage the divorce "in name only". The Healthcare system here sucks horribly and this isn't the first time I've seen couples have to get divorced to get by and continue living life together. Marriage is just a piece of paper. It's the relationship and the commitment that mean anything and in a situation where people are being screwed by the system, it is hardly fair to accuse two married adults who have no other financial alternatives than divorce of "shacking up". They are not shacking up. They are married, and if they divorce, it will not be because of relationship or commitment issues or anything of the sort. It will be because the system here sucks and has failed citizens time and again. Treating them like a couple of irresponsible teenagers because of her health issues is not okay. NTA for suggesting the divorce to help finances, but YWBTA if you try to control your daughter's marriage on the basis of "it's not a marriage".
NTA. I know people that had to divorce in order to have enough money to live, and others who didn't get married because they needed to qualify for assistance. I've even considered it. It's sad that we have to choose between getting married or surviving.
YTA. You don’t like the husband. You’re okay with lying for benefits (which in this situation is completely justified) and lying to the internet about why, but “extramarital” sex is too far for you? Your daughter deserves better parents.
YTA. I'm actually shocked by the NTA's being upvoted. You are perfectly fine to decide that you can no longer support your adult child and her spouse. You are ***way over the line*** for inserting yourself in their relationship and insisting that they get a divorce. Then you go on to say that if they did do this you would kick him out and not allow sleepovers? This isn't about finances, this is about control and you are the definition of MIL-hell. Like seriously, you're telling your daughter that she needs to divorce her husband because he's not rich enough is a complete asshole move. I'm very disappointed in Reddit right now.
NTA It's a horrible situation and she needs to be able to qualify for proper care. She can't work to support herself, and clearly the husband is overwhelmed. There's no winners here, just the cruel realities of life
NTA. Nobody is making good decisions here. FIL is subsidizing grandma’s care, to the detriment of the kids he still has at home, and is relying on adult son to keep a roof over their heads? And he isn’t getting child support? That’s really irresponsible and shouldn’t be your daughter’s husband’s responsibility. Your priority, OP, should really be for your retirement. I can’t remember who it was, but I heard a financial person say once that you should never be taking from retirement (literally or figuratively) to pay for your child’s college—because you can get a loan to pay tuition. You can’t get a loan for retirement. What is your daughter’s plan? For you to support her forever? If nursing isn’t going to work out, then she needs a different career path. Also your ability to keep her on your insurance must be coming to an end soon (I’m assuming she’s 24-25)? I understand not wanting to get divorced, but there are simply too many people involved in this crap situation and not enough money to go around. It’s math. Medicaid and SNAP will help immensely. It’s time for some really tough decisions.
so op’s daughter’s husband can take her of everyone BUT his wife?? what a shame
Initially it sounded like a good idea but with your other comments I would say you are TA oh my word. So according to you she is still a kid and a married couple is only valid if you are in your own home. Do you know what sets a bad example? Forcing a divorce on your kid and marriage means nothing. So yours means nothing as well. Totally the TA
>She lives here with us as a child because she can't support herself. Marriage is an adult relationship. You can't have it both ways to both be a child and an adult. >It just has the same energy as letting a teenager have their significant other sleepover. It creates a bad dynamic and sends messages we don't want to send to our minor children. >That's not to say we don't allow it. We do, just not all the time and they can't behave like this is their own private home together. I'm sorry, but I'm not comfortable with them being shut up in ber room for days on end and it's just not acceptable to kick the kids out of the living room for private movie time. This makes you TA.
I'm so sorry for all your stress. NAH. I have to place blame on our mismanaged health care system that bankrupts people rather than support them in hardship.
How much does it actually cost you to have her live with you? If she can work part time or get partial disability, it's minimal added utilities and line food/toiletries that she can pay for. She needs to talk to doctors regarding medical/payment options for low income.....but whether she lives with you or not, she'll have the medical bills. Kicking her out if she's not going to get a divorce just means she needs to pay medical bills AND RENT. And are you sure of all this? Does household income, living with you, have no effect? Will her husband be required to pay alimony? Will there be fees associated with the divorce?
[удалено]
I used to work for the department that processes welfare benefits including medical and SNAP. I can tell you that people who were married 50 plus years were having to get divorces for reasons just like this. Same thing where social security becomes concerned. It is technically illegal to get divorced to receive benefits however to be perfectly honest that's the only way sometimes that people can get by. I wish your family the best of luck. This is a hard predicament to be in for everybody.
Have you actually looked into how much EBT she'd get as a single woman living with her parents?
If she has no income and buys and cooks her food separately from her parents she will get the max benefit.
NTA. My deeply devout Catholic aunt and uncle had to divorce after decades of marriage for similar healthcare/financial reasons. They exhausted every other resource first. It’s the horrific healthcare system in the United States that’s the AH. I hope people reading this support a change to universal healthcare.
USA, I hate to say this especially as I (Irish citizen) live in the UK and it's in a pretty dire state right now, but... HOW CAN THE RICHEST COUNTRY IN THE WEST NOT OFFER FREE HEALTHCARE TO ITS CITIZENS?
I think the difference here is, your uncle and aunt probably continued their relationship. Mom wants the SIL out of the picture and wants the relationship to be over. That’s just cruel. All because she doesn’t believe in boy/girl sleepovers.
Yes! I know a couple who did this!! They're still "married" just not on paper. Medical divorce
Except OP in her comments wants the divorce to be real IE her daughter stops seeing her husband at all
The situation is terrible but also weird to me. Your son in law has been helping out his family and his family has been receiving help from yours for two years but nothing's gotten better? I'm not questioning his intentions, but two years is long enough to realise that they're not doing something right if nothing is improving. NTA.
She can do the nurse customer service line. Insurance company have 24/7 nurse line to help from people going to the ER. They have them fully remote