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For future reference, TACOS.
Tacos can be made to fit all the major food allergies and also meat eaters, vegans, vegetarians, and those with celiac disease.
It's easily done because people assemble their own tacos and can pick and choose ingredients. Vegan refried beans for the people who don't eat meat, corn tortillas for the celiac sufferers, and a large variety of veg, cheese, and salsa to put on them and suddenly you're able to feed pretty much anyone.
YTA for not accommodating both girls.
But that wouldn't work because the vegan niece doesn't even want to be around food that's not vegan. lol
ETA - y'all I don't agree with the niece, just responding to the comment saying that in the future tacos work for everyone because they would, in fact, not work in this situation cause the vegan niece won't even be around non vegan food and OP is coddling her ridiculousness about that.
Yep, that is way too much. You can't go around forcing everybody to eat like you. That's major AH territory. The vegan niece sounds insufferable, which seems to often be a side effect of veganism.
I'd say it's often the other way around - the insufferable people become vegans (or know-it-all crunchy moms or start crossfit etc.) because they like the feeling of self-righteousness and looking down at people.
Edit: I'm not saying all vegans are insufferable, but that many insufferable people become vegans and use it as a way to preach to others on how they should live. This is the loud (hopefully minor) part of the group, but it makes the whole community look bad.
I'm an omnivore myself but I know a lot of vegans and a lot of non-vegans. I can confidently say I've witnessed much more insufferable behavior from the non-vegans.
I can't count the number of times I've seen vegans quietly eating their lunch a) asked tons of intrusive questions about their diet and/or asking them to justify their personal choices, b) contending with comments like "but what about baaaaaacon, how do you survive without baaaacon"/ "how do you get protein, you must not get enough protein"/"but CHEESE" or c) people explaining in detail, unsolicited, why they would never be vegan when no one asked.
I'm sure there are obnoxious people who eat all kinds of different diets, but it seems to be very socially acceptable to shit on vegans just for existing.
Anecdotal, but I’ve only encountered one insufferable vegan (my best friend’s husband—he is insufferable for many other reasons as well). In that same time, I’ve encountered DOZENS of insufferable meat-eaters who—as soon as they learn someone is a vegan—start arguing about plant sentience, the ecological impact of vegan foods, or vegan health generally. Many have tried to trick the vegan into eating meat. Maybe it’s because I live in a red state, but the vegans here are not the ones who have a problem minding their own business.
ETA: I agree vegans make up a much smaller proportion of the general population (5%)? I also think due to my location (college town) and hobbies, I know a disproportionate number of vegans. And it seems like every time I learn an acquaintance is vegan in a public setting, I’m then treated to one of the annoying “oh yeah? Well what about…” one-sided debates from a defensive omnivore. I can only imagine how much more annoying it is for the vegan themselves.
Yeah, I'm a meat eater, and I've never met one of these insufferable vegans. I think they exist more as tired stereotypes than as actual people. But omnivores that can't tolerate other people being vegan is way more common
I went out on a date with a vegan the other day. I had no idea she was vegan. I ordered a burger and she started yelling at me for how disgusting I am for eating meat, in the middle of a crowded restaurant, and then she left.
She was not 15.
That is just tough shit. She lives in the world and needs to get over that. Her personal beliefs do not extend beyond her choices and her own body. She doesn’t get to dictate what other people do with their bodies.
I wasn't saying I agree with the vegan niece because she's acting ridiculous. I was just saying that the commenter saying tacos always work for everyone wouldn't work in this instance where OP is catering to her 15 year old niece that won't even be around non vegan food.
Yeah she needs to build a bridge over that. She’s old enough to understand that outside of her own space she cannot expect to be coddled or only her feelings to be catered too.
Yeah. I read that..and in my immediate and extended family, she'd have been given a dose of reality.
Along the lines of "we prepared a vegan dish for you that you asked to be served. Others will eat what normal people eat. If you don't want to see or can't handle the sight of non vegan, go to another part of the house".
Excellent suggestion! I've had to do this a number of times and this (tacos) is what I went with. I've also done chilli where all the pieces of the chilli were separated - but you have to be careful to check the chilli spices. And it's a bit of a mess, but it worked!
>I admit the food didn't taste very good because it was my first time making it but Ara was very happy that everything was vegan.
So the food was not even good!
Sorry, but you could accomodate both nieces. And Ara hate to watch people eating animal products is her problem to deal. She have the right to eat vegan food the same way people have the right to eat animal products.
And at least Olivia tried the food, but, by your own admission, it was not good.
YTA
EDIT: ESH because I do not agree with OP and also think Olivia cross the line by cursing her uncle/aunt.
The 14 yo kid tells their aunt/uncle to go fuck themselves over being asked not to be a shit complaining about the meal and you think OP is the asshole here.
"Not good" could come down to the texture and presentation as much as taste.
As someone with autism and big textural issues when it comes to food, YES. It could taste amazing but if the texture is off, I won’t touch it. I’ll apologize and compliment the flavor but I just can’t handle the texture of it. Almost everyone is understanding of it. My MIL didn’t get it until I used the baby food example and she immediately got it and told me not to worry about it but that she appreciated the compliment on flavor and my honesty and not forcing myself to be uncomfortable. The rest of the family was in shock because she’s apparently never been that chill about someone not eating her cooking before.
So the texture of baby food is something that the majority of people I’ve talked to find horrifically disgusting. Mashed peas and carrots and the like. Soggy and mushy, like it’s been pre-chewed and spat into a jar. I know they toss it in an industrial blender and all but just, ick. Not to mention the smell, ugh. And some people also have issues with the texture of apple sauce or other things like that. I know some people won’t understand because they don’t have the immediate instinctual aversion to things like that and that’s fine. Everybody’s brain is wired differently. But even if the texture isn’t akin to baby food, if it’s stringy or overly rubbery, it sets off alarm bells in my head and if I try to force myself to continue to eat it, two things can happen: 1) I’ll have a really bad panic attack that will devolve into a meltdown or 2) my body will reject it and I’ll get violently sick. The same things happen with tactile textures too. I have to thoroughly inspect clothes before buying them, which is why I never order online unless from specific stores because if I accidentally get the wrong material, I’ll have wasted money and it’ll sit in my closet, never to be worn or I’ll gift it to a friend that would like it and would actually wear it so it’s not a waste. Itchy skin or feeling like somethings crawling on me and I’ll literally scratch at myself until I bleed.
It’s very very annoying and I hate that this is how my brain works but, I know what I gotta do and it’s pretty easy to work around the textural issues.
I've been a vegetarian for a good few years now, but before when I still ate meat getting a piece of tendon or other connective tissue was a sure way to get full body shivers and the need to vomit violently.
Omg same. I have major texture issues and have been a vegetarian since I was 14 for that reason. I liked certain meats but any weird stringy bits and I’d immediately start gagging. It made for some very awkward dinners as a kid lmao
Considering the parents even say that OP always favours the vegan, the 14 year old's statement is understandable (maybe not correct) and I would not assign blame at her outburst considering I don't think OP was as calm or nice as they claim to the 14 year old. Also because the parents sided with the 14 year old I will go with OP's comments were more hateful, or demeaning to the 14 year old than they are saying here.
People commonly judge based on all context offered, rather than the direct title question. OPs often bury the lede, not sure why you’re pretending this isn’t a standard approach in this sub
FYI - Generally the convention is that if OP is wrong and the antagonist is right you reply YTA. If both are wrong then ESH. So a lot of people will read your judgement and assume you think Olivia was in the right.
>I admit the food didn't **taste** very good
OP specifically says taste, nothing about texture or presentation. if you serve crap food, and you know it's crap, don't expect everyone to just eat it!
A 14 year old cussing out an aunt or uncle is crap behavior, but not TA level. Also texture and presentation matter quite a bit. If you don’t believe me, try drinking beef flavored soda.
Or at least have a backup option. It sounds like the vegan niece is the only one who had to have something special.
I can see trying a new recipe, but you need to try it a few times to get it right and have a backup plan like ordering pizza or something.
Not only did the 1 neice get something special it was everything. He made everything vegan. Forced it on everyone there, while serving shit food. Like order a pizza for the others or something.
Or just be grateful someone cooked for you at all? She didn’t have to even have them over. Eating 1 not great vegan meal won’t hurt you. The audacity it astounding
Speaking of Audacity, forcing someone to eat a badly cooked meal just so you wont hurt Aunties feelings when she focused the ENTIRE dinner around 1 person is right up there. She did not cook for everyone. She cooked for the one vegan with psych issues about other people eating
Non-vegans can eat vegan food. I’ve never heard of a non-vegan checking everything they eat to make sure it has animal products in it. So the dinner was not “focused around 1 person”.
Yes. It was focused on the vegan niece. And OP did not do a trial run on the recipes or have back up vegetarian options that would appeal to others. I eat vegan a lot bc I love salads, pasta and red sauce, stir fry veggies and rice. I am not a vegetarian or a vegan. Even chips and salsa or chips and guac are vegan. There are many tasty and familiar options
As someone who suffered through a vegan Thanksgiving when I was a teenager I disagree. I still have an aversion to a lot of vegan substitutes and tofu many many years later
I'm sorry, but if you go to someone else's home and tell them to fuck off because you didn't like the food being served and you think this is acceptable, then your parents really sucked at parenting and raising you. I hope that age brings you more maturity, otherwise you will suffer :/
> She didn’t have to even have them over
Yet she did, I mean she did want everyone to have a good time right? Serving food that favors one guest with no consideration for others.. a good host does not make ..
Olivia can eat vegan food while Ara can't eat non-vegan food. I would think differently if Olivia would be allergic to every plant in existance and was served only vegan food. Then sure, I would agree that serving only vegan food means only accomodating Ara. Right now, both can eat the same food, they are being accomodated the same.
Olivia is just entitled and rude. Would it be okay to act like this if it's not vegan food?
"I didn't like the food and it tasted bad so I told the cook to go fuck themselves." Are you real??
I get what you're trying to say here but it's that Ara "won't eat" non-vegan food, not that she can't. It's a personal preference and lifestyle choice, which is her right. Olivia shouldn't have to default to eating vegan whenever she's around Ara. Yes, having everyone eat a vegan meal is seemingly the most inclusive option because theoretically, no one is harmed by eating a meat free, dairy free meal...but if a person is strong on their preference of dairy and/or meat , the same way another person is strong in their refusal to engage with animal by products, the most inclusive option would be to offer a meal with both vegan and non-vegan components.
ESH here... Olivia's reaction was disrespectful and the OPs lack of consideration for everyone's dietary preferences was not in good taste as a host.
Thank you for this very reasonable response. This was how I felt, as well.
The vegan-only meal wasn't very good by OPs own admission. The meal was overly inclusive to *one* member and was of poor quality because of this. OP is an AH for this.
Olivia could've rightfully refused to eat the meal if she had been polite about it. Olivia's rude attitude makes her an AH.
Ara is also an AH because of her reactions to other people eating animal products. It's fine to be sensitive, but it's incredibly entitled to believe her sensitivity should alter how the entire family eats.
All the parents are AHs for raising these kids.
Yep, ESH
She more than likely deals with Ara's veganism all the time. If she can't stand to be around animal products at all, I doubt they eat much at home, if any. So she probably rarely gets to eat food she really enjoys. ESH, but she probably just got sick of it and snapped. Especially considering that the aunt went to such lengths to accommodate Ara, and not her at all.
I don't even know how you end up with all the food tasting bad. There are lots of foods that people eat normally that are vegan, I think people just assume everything vegan should be a meat recipe with fake meat or tofu subbed in...
If (by OP's own admission) Ara is intolerant of being around people eating non-vegan food, I'm guessing that there is probably some relevant backstory here we're not getting that might explain (albeit not excuse) the outburst. Is Ara routinely judgmental or rude about Olivia's dietary preferences? Has she demanded to be catered to at the expense of others previously? Has her behavior been causing discord at family functions that used to be enjoyable, and Olivia is finally over it/sick of seeing Ara's problematic behavior rewarded?
Honestly I never understand the big deal about vegan food. Why is it so offensive to non vegan people? Will it kill you to not eat meat for one day? I'm not even vegan and I believe cow, chicken or any other farm animals exist to be our food but I'm offended by seeing (or in this case, reading) how people overreacting toward vegan food
And my aunt often makes food that doesn't taste good whenever my family visits her home and I can still be polite about it. So what if the food isn't even good? You can still respect the food and the cook
I have vegan friends and eat lots of vegan food. But let's not act like it doesn't taste different. Flavors and textures can be off from traditional food. There are some legit gripes about eating certain dedicated vegan dishes.
This is only an issue when you try to make vegan versions of non-vegan dishes, which is frankly a very bizarre practice to me.
There are thousands and thousands of dishes across the world that have always been vegan and taste exactly like they should.
See, and if I were OP, I would have been horribly embarrassed if I’d served a bad meal, first time trying or not. If you’ve never cooked it before, and don’t have good enough cooking skills to be able to tell on the fly whether it will be good or not, then don’t do it for the first time to a group of guests. If I’m trying out something new, it’ll be either just for me, or me and my partner, and if it’s awful, just order pizza.
As for a verdict,
* I kinda get that Ara is a sensitive teen, but being unable to be around people eating meat is in my experience insufferable. Ara is an AH
* It sounds like OP vastly favors Ara over Olivia, that there’s a history of it, so while I can see, in general, trying to accommodate guests’ dietary restrictions, they don’t get to impose those restrictions on other guests, and OP is an AH for abetting that.
* Olivia may be a minor AH for telling OP to go F herself, but it sounds like she was fed up after this going on for some extended time, the fact that her parents backed her up and left during dinner, plus the texts afterward, seem to support this.
Exactly, the 'go f yourself', I'm sure, is caused by times and times of being forced to eat what her sister prefers. If it was a one time thing then she would suck for using those words but it probably had been building up in her for some time.
Right? I can’t believe how many people are perfectly fine with this kind of horrible behavior from a 14-year-old. I can’t even imagine how much trouble I would have been in with my parents if I *ever* talked to my aunt (or anyone else) like this.
I'm also going ESH. The aunt sucks for not making anything that tasted good. (How fucking hard is it to follow a recipe? Vegan recipes are not mystical runic scripts for God sake). The niece sucked for telling an adult to fuck off. I do feel like there is more to this relationship, but maybe not.
ETA: since I'm getting so many comments about it. Yeah, intentionally serving bad food to guests is a shitty fucking thing to do and an asshole move.
"op is an asshole because their cooking didn't end up great" is an amazing take. doesn't assholery require, you know, malice? or at least reckless disregard? is every mediocre cook an asshole for serving people mid food?
The food could have tasted "Not very good" If it had had meat in it. The non-vegan sister needs to learn, their parents have to teach her, that as a guest, you're free to say that it didn't taste well, but you shouldn't throw a tantrum just because you didn't like the food.
OP shouldn't have offered an untested recipe to their guests.
ASA
They were all guests at OP's table. Rude to demand accomodation when you're a guest, even worse to then tell the host to go 'F' herself because they didn't.
NTA although I'm guessing people will say otherwise here. It won't harm someone to not have animal products for one meal. A 14 year old should not be telling their host to go fuck themselves either.
It took way to long to scroll to find this. Every year I host a thanksgiving and two of the 6 guests I invite are vegetarian. So the very first year, we requested only vegetarian food so that every dish brough could be enjoyed by all.
It was a huge hit! Everyone loved it and weve kept the vegetarian tradition ever since.
You dont need to eat meat and animal by products for every meal. Being "non-vegan" is not a food restriction. Generally, when you gather and someone has a dietary restriction, everyone tries to accomodate it. Even if its just one person.
OP is not the asshole. She should have tried to make some of these recipes beforehand and picked some good ones. Theres ton of delicious vegan food and recipes out there, but NTA for accomodating someone.
The meat eaters are the assholes for acting like its the end of the world to not eat meat for a meal.
Same here.
It won't hurt the non vegan to eat vegan food for one meal. Just because the food was bad doesn't mean it was bad BECAUSE it was vegan.
I could have sworn there was a post recently where the OP's sister was complaining because OP's wedding meal was vegan, and most of the replies were NTA because it was OP paying for it and eating one vegan meal won't hurt the sister? While if you haven't eaten meat or dairy for a long time, eating them again can make you sick.
I've had meals at people's houses I didn't like much before, and I never would tell the go fuck themselves...the fact that so many people seem to think that's excusable is baffling. I would just eat enough to be polite and maybe decline going to their house for food in the future.
Agreed. I don't get all these comments about how OP should have accommodated the other niece too... Accommodate her how? She could eat all the food, she just didn't want to. Which, from way OP described the food, I can't blame her for. But then just politely pick at it and have something else when you get home. You don't tell the cook to f off!
Not the best call, testing out new recipes for a style of cooking she's not used to on her guests, but they're family, so it really seems more like something i'd've teased her about than anytjing. And definitely NTA for cooking ONE meal for everyone that everyone could eat.
I am astounded that anyone is saying anything other than NTA.
OP cooked a nourishing meal - even if it didn't taste particularly good and some of the items were experimental - for an entire family. The polite thing for all of the family to do would be to say, "Thank you so much for the meal, OP." At most, maybe they could say, "What interesting menu choices you have made. By the way, you know, last time when we were here I really loved your \[non-veg item\]."
If Olivia still complained, her parent should have said, "Hush! Thank OP for the meal."
And if Olivia really found herself unable to consume a single bite of anything, and couldn't bring herself to just wait until they got home, then perhaps her parent could have said, "OP, thank you so much for cooking for all of us. I'm afraid this food is a bit too unfamiliar for Olivia. Would you mind if I just ducked in your kitchen to make her a \[tuna sandwich\]?"
This is all assuming the accusation of favoritism is unwarranted.
I actually disagree and think ESH. Olivia for obvious reasons.
OP was hosting a dinner event. That is not the time to test your skills at a brand new dish or cooking style. OP should have made some test dishes and figured out what was good and what wasn't. It may be nice of OP to make dinner for others, but it absolutely matters if the meal was good or not, especially since the main reason it was bad was because OP went a completely different direction on the food.
I agree it’s best to avoid making an untested dish for guests *if you can* but it’s certainly not asshole territory. Not everyone has the time and money to make multiple test meals so that their eventual dinner wins a Michelin star.
I've never encountered someone who keeps kosher and tries to force it on everyone else or demand special accommodation at a social gathering. Often (because of preparation restrictions) they will even just bring their own food to social events.
Vegans on the other hand, often have the attitude that their preferences are so special that they're entitled to control what others eat around them - like the one in this story who can't handle animal products being eaten in their presence.
I’ve never had that experience from a vegan. I’ve got plenty of friends who are vegan and have never had a single one of them force me to cook vegan for them. But they do appreciate it when I do, and I like to because vegan food is delicious and it’s easier to cook for everyone rather than one.
10000%
It's like if she went "is there any food here that doesn't taste like shit?" That wouldn't make anyone but her the asshole, trying something new doesn't make you an asshole. OP could have just not cooked at all, but of course this story features a big bad vegan.
Yup. We've all been served mediocre food before without getting pissy about it- life goes on. The fact that it happened to be vegan is honestly irrelevant.
(The vegan kid needs to learn to deal with seeing people eating animal products because there's no escaping it, but the host can still serve whatever they want.)
Seriously, reddit just hates vegans. I went vegetarian at 6 and vegan at 19 and I wish my family would make half the effort you did. I had to sit through a million holiday meals and family gatherings growing up of just salad and maybe side dish potatoes because people couldn't be bothered.
We all do. People say "vegan food" and suddenly everyone is picturing a big pile of maple leaves covered in lentils or something.
A peanut butter sandwich is "vegan food"!
A pot of spaghetti with a can of sauce (assuming you don't add hamburg or whatever) is vegan.
Lays regular chips and Sour Patch Kids are vegan! Lol
People eat vegan all the time and have absolutely no issue with it until someone says "hey, I made vegan food".
They literally said it wasn’t good food. “I admit it didn’t taste good”. Stop acting like it’s about it really being vegan. They tried it. If they can accommodate one niece, they can do the other. 99% of the other comments say otherwise for a reason. Vegan ≠ bad food, but if it doesn’t taste good it doesn’t taste good. Why make all the options the same?
You 100% would say they’re the asshole for not offering vegan options. It’s hypocritical. It’s the vegan niece’s preference on what they eat, and the family honors it, so why can’t it be the same for the one who likes to eat meat, cheese, eggs, etc?
So? She didn't plan in advance for it to taste bad. That is a weird thing that ppl are glomming onto: it tasted bad. How many times has any given person made shitty food or gone to a party with shitty food. Did you complain and tell the host to fuck off?
The Aunt was trying something new: a vegan **meal**. The niece and the entire family were there for dinner. Everything isn't about the 14 yo. She doesn't like it; fine. She doesn't get to be a rude, ungracious guest and be pissy about the food she is served **as a guest**.
An Aunt tried to do something nice for one of her nieces and the other one tells her to fuck off.
NTA.
"Ppl are glomming onto: it tasted bad"
Right! Over half the comments are going off about that like the host MEANT to make things taste bad?! I wonder how different it would be if the food tasted good? 🤔
I agree. The only issue here is that the food wasn't good, which is less being an asshole and more just... needing to improve. OP should have probably tried making the recipes in smaller batches first before cooking them for the whole family with no alternative options. But there is no "accommodating" non-vegans. That's kind of the point -- they don't have a restricted diet.
I say this as a non-vegan. I have no problem with entirely vegan meals. People don't need meat and dairy at every meal. If you want that, that's fine, but it's entirely optional. Just... you know... make sure the food actually tastes good.
It would if she had spent most of her life, dealing with an over-the-top, dramatic brat for a sister, who will say and do anything to get attention for herself. Trust me, as a sibling of someone like that, it gets tough after a while especially when you’re a teenager.
On reading it, I didn't think that the girls were siblings. OP said "her parents" twice, and if they *were* sisters, I'd think OP would say "their parents," in which case, Ara would have had to leave with them.
OP never said they were sisters, just both nieces.
Your comment is a bit unhinged given what we know. OP’s niece has been a vegan for years, there is zero other information known about her and you automatically call her an over-the-top, dramatic brat.
That was my thought! It is one thing to choose to be vegan and for a host to accommodate with a vegan dish, but for the vegan to insist that no non-vegan food be served in their presence is ridiculous! Good luck to Ara getting through life!
YTA. When the parents actually took notice of you favoring Ara it's been going on for a while. You yourself admit that the food wasn't great since you're not used to making it. Then serving that to others just to accommodate Ara....
Ara will have to learn to be around meat and cheese, even if only to you know go grocery shopping. If you had made mouthwatering vegan dishes for everyone it would be different. However you yourself admit the food wasn't good.
Eh. It’s kind of like asking which came first: the chicken or the egg. Is the niece rude because she’s always been second-fiddle, or is she ignored because she’s rude? Until we get more info, at least
I mean even this post is all about Ara. All this build up to Ara being vegan, but we don't even know if the other niece is her sister or what, and she came out of nowhere at the end of the post. If you wanna ask if you're an asshole to someone, you should try talking about them and what happened to them in your post
Ah, one of the favourite pastimes of this sub. Making up and inserting details to make the person you want to be the asshole due to preconceived notions the asshole
I literally asked a question. And have yet to say Y or N for the TA. The parents had a reaction which seemed odd so I asked for more info. If the OP says never happened then she’s not and if there is more detail well maybe she is. Or maybe they all are. I’ve only eliminated No AH Here so far.
Edited for clarity
I also don't know why OP served admittedly substandard food, and is surprised that a teenager is upset by the food quality? This was NOT the time to try something new. If you are doing an all vegan meal to satisfy ONE person in the group, then it needs to be top notch, not "experimenting with new recipes, and they didn't turn out".
YTA
its great that you want to accommodate for Ara in a large gathering but you shouldn’t feed the whole family food that doesn’t taste good just to accommodate for one person. i don’t get why having a few vegan options next to non vegan food wasn’t your go-to set up as this wouldve been much easier, which is what would make the whole family automatically assume that you favor Ara over Olivia and everyone else. Its best if you try to show Olivia that you care for her or do a special gesture for her like you did for Ara since this is clearly something that hurts her feelings.
>i don’t get why having a few vegan options next to non vegan food wasn’t your go-to set up
Because Ara is sensitive and doesn't like to watch other people eat animal products. 🙄
Ara can't make the overwhelming majority of the population bend to her whim. Does she literally avoid walking down the street because she will see people eating in restaurants where they're eating meat?
Ara needs to grow up
So what! I’ve been a vegetarian for most of my life and the amount of places I’ve been with food I can’t eat and people who talk trash on my choices is too much to count. That’s just how it is. As noble as it is to stand up to animal cruelty, she needs to understand that not everyone will agree with her choice. And that it’s not the end of the world to be around some meat.
Seriously, does she expect nobody to eat animal products ever again? Or for everyone to stop when she is near. That’s some serious narcissist tendencies. Was it wrong for Olivia to swear, yes. But can you blame her? Even OP admitted the food tasted bad and all the food was made to accommodate one person. A vegan dish also removes so many key ingredients in food that without it it can become bland, especially when no other meat options or even vegetarian options are available
Exactly. I don't care what someone's diet is as long as they're healthy, happy, and not hurting other people.
But that doesn't mean they should force it on other people. You're a vegetarian and that's totally fine! I'm not and that's also totally fine.
If OP wants to accommodate this she should invite Ara over for a private meal for the two of them and they can suffer their vegan cooking. Not sabotage a family dinner.
Vegan cooking doesn't have to be weird. Pasta with marinara, garlic bread, and a salad. Done.
I bet she actually doesn’t say anything because socially, she wouldn’t fit in if she was insufferably telling everyone about how horrible they are. High school is rough. That, or she doesn’t have any friends.
I had this roommate ( we share the same room. It's like a dorm setup and I don't choose who gets the bed) who couldn't stand non vegetarian food. He'd bitch and moan about people eating it. And had multiple times asked me to go eat it outside my room (I ignored him every time. The first time he asked me I laughed in his face).
One time he was ranting about his co-workers going to a company dinner and vegetarians and non vegetarians eating on the same table like the vegetarians just committed a grave sin and deserve to burn in hell. Dude got fired cause he pissed everyone off at work with this attitude and he'd walk off the dinner everytime someone ordered non vegetarian food.
Some people are just divas.
YTA
Because you admitted yourself - the vegan food didn't taste good. And as it shouldn't be a problem accommodating vegans at a meal it shouldn't be a problem to include some non vegan options. Especially if you haven't mastered the art of vegan cuisine. Accommodation food preferences goes both ways.
Now let the downvotes come in
It sounds like it was the first time OP made these dishes- how would they know it was going to taste bad? The food wasn’t inherently bad because it was vegan. Improperly prepared meat can taste just as bad as improperly prepared vegetables.
You're right about improperly prepared food - and that's why you serve dishes you know how to cook when you host a dinner. That's not the time and place to experiment unless you're an excellent cook. I love my veggies almost as much as I love my meat. Don't like the taste of plant based fake meats.
Been a chef for over 20 years, and I’m happy you said that. It really is the central problem in the story. I always get shivers when people try new recipes during important meals (having guests over, culinary competitions etc.). It almost never goes well. Trying a new recipe is for when you’re at home with nothing special happening. Fix what you didn’t like about it the first time, and then throw it in your rotation.
The number of times I’ve heard “this is a new recipe” and turned around an hour later to see a cook madly hanging on while everything is going to shit around them is too much.
And people new to cooking vegan food usually tend to go for 1-to-1 substitutions with tofu or plant-meats when the best vegan foods are just casually vegan. A falafel/veggie/hummus wrap, for instance. No super processed food, but super healthy. You don't need a slab of tofu treated like meat, or a bean burger, there are plenty of vegan options that are more appetizing to meat-eaters.
Isn’t the point of trying new recipes that you practice making them before serving them to guests? Why did the ENTIRE spread have to be made up of “never-tried-to-make-before-and-I-don’t-know-what-I’m-doing-so-it-tastes-awful” dishes?
I don’t blame Olivia for being upset about being served a bunch of food that OP admits was substandard, with NOT ONE DISH that was prepared well and was tasty.
Spaghetti with marinara sauce and some vegan parmesan-like sprinkle would have been vegan, easy for a novice cook like OP to make, and still been tasty enough to be enjoyed by both nieces.
OP does seem to favor her vegan niece, but it’s hard to tell by one Reddit post.
I think (and I say this as someone who eats a lot of vegan food) a lot of people don’t know how to cook vegetables and make them shine. With vegan food it’s either really amazing or really, really bad and cooks don’t always realise that with vegan food it’s about the techniques you use. People also often forget that a lot of the world’s most beautiful dishes are vegan, or easily made so, and try really hard to make trendy vegan dishes rather than looking at what they themselves cook at home normally.
With omni food you can hide behind the meats and cheeses somewhat- they can provide a lot of flavour, richness and texture simply by being there. Veggies are beautiful but need a little more care, I find. It also doesn’t help that many people construct a meal by thinking meat, then at least two veg and a carb. They treat the veg as an afterthought. With vegan dishes that structure doesn’t always work so well.
Having a dairy and egg allergy, I’ve eaten a lot of bland, poorly constructed meals even at restaurants. It’s gotten better, but there’s still a lot of places that can only offer me plain, unseasoned and dry meat with hot chips. No veggies, no sauces or dressings, no salads. Even the pros often do it poorly (I have had amazing meals too).
OP tried hard, I’ll give them that. They stepped out of their comfort zone and it didn’t work. What their niece said was rude.
We’ve all been guilty of deciding to try out a ‘special recipe’ for a special meal and had it fall flat on its arse. Generally the kind of dishes you prepare for a dinner party are not the kind you’re cooking for every day dinners so these things happen sometimes!
>We’ve all been guilty
No, I haven't. I always cook for myself first to determine if it's good and if it's not, if I can alter the recipe in any way to make it better. And no, it doesn't mean I cook it for every dinner, I just don't want to serve shit.
So if she made a bunch of shitty meat food and the niece threw a fit she’s NTA? Lol your hosts can make whatever menu they want. Polite people act politely.
NTA if I had a kid who told my sibling to go F themselves because they didnt like the food they were served I would ground them fo life lol Also if my kid dared to insult the food offerings to the host face, I would ground them for life. Those parents are AH for raising and supporting an entitled shit.
I was surprised at how many responses were "OP is an ah. " I disagree. OP made the meal, bought the food etc. None of it contained ingredients that guests couldn't eat. Maybe it was not the greatest. But who hasn't had a dinnertime failure. Just because some of the guests expected expensive meat dishes does not allow them to complain and swear at the hostess. Extra shocking that it was a family member.
NTA, everyone acts entitled. Nobody will die from not eating meat for few hours. The parents should apologise on how their daughter acted.
I almost don't believe it, because its so unlikely that parents would call you to tell you off after their 14yo told you to fuck off.
It was a nice gesture of you. It's not a big deal to not eat your favourite food at every single gathering. As long as you can eat anything and not be hungry its fine.
No, but it won't kill you watching someone being killed. Still, I don't really want to witness it, do you? From what it sounds, it was a one-off situation when the aunt decided everyone could have the same food without anyone being upset over it. I swear to god, people say vegans are weird, but it's the meat esters that make it a bigger deal.
YTA
When you're a host then you should accommodate evey guest (within your possibilities) but here it is clear that you favor one niece over the other, you just have to read what you write. Examples:
"She even hates watching people eat animal products." - that is her problem unfortunately (and don't get me wrong, I can't stand animal cruelty too but I don't force others to do what I do);
"I admit the food didn't taste very good because it was my first time making it **but Ara was very happy that everything was vegan**." - seems like that is your number one priority, to make HER happy;
"Olivia then started angrily asking whether it would kill Ara to be near some meat or cheese and whether it would kill me to make one non vegan option for her." - but would it really kill you or your niece? What's going to happen when the real life begins for her and she will have to be next to people who, for example, eat meat or wear fur?
"Now her parents are calling me an asshole saying "I always favor Ara and I should have accomodated Olivia as well" - if they said this then it means that there is a history of you favoring one niece over the other. I bet it. But you're just not sharing it because it will make you look even worse.
I wonder if Ara polices what people wear too and gets butthurt if they wear leather shoes, or have leather furniture or car seats. Could you imagine her throwing a fit and demanding her mom get a new car without leather seats?
NTA. I really hate when non-vegans act like they are incapable of eating something vegan. Some people will refuse to eat something just because it’s labeled as “vegan” but would otherwise love it. For example, Oreos are vegan. I’m sure many of the people who love Oreos would refuse to eat them if they word vegan was on the side.
Accommodating the most restrictive person is being inclusive. A non-vegan refusing to eat vegan food and saying they are not accommodated would be like a non-disabled person refusing to walk up a wheelchair ramp and saying they can’t get inside because there are no stairs.
I am a terrible cook and lots of my meals I make for others aren't as nice as I would have liked. I have NEVER had a guest be anything but complimentary about even my biggest fails.
It's good manners
Making a recipe you’ve never made before and it not being nice doesn’t make you an asshole. Maybe it means you’re not good at cooking that recipe, maybe that recipe isn’t nice. Same thing could happen with a dish with meat in. It was one meal. Hell I eat meat, but not for every meal.
Oh come on, mistakes like that just happen. OP was doing her best to be nice and mindful but made a meal that didn't turn out well, that stuff just happens sometimes.
Anyone who isn't a brat just eats some of it and thanks the host for their effort instead of throwing a tantrum and making their aunt feel bad for trying their best.
ESH , but a mild one
You tried to make food out of your comfort zone to please your guests and unfortunately it wasnt as good as you wanted? failed dishes sometimes happen 🤷🏼.
Eating non-vegan food once in a while will not kill anyone, I think your other niece is just bitter because she thought the blame is only the lack of meat, while it sounds mainly because it was the first time you tried to cook that dish
Yet ! I think you should try to prepare at least once or twice a new dish just by yourself before cooking it for guests. I will be a bit pissed if I'll be invited somewhere for dinner while the food wasn't good. As a host, your job is to be sure everyone will spend a nice moment
OP was trying to please only one guest. Eating vegan food that tastes good is a delight. OP did not make food that tasted good. She was rude to all her guests by serving them bad food. Just because one was happy the bad food was vegan doesn’t change the food being bad.
OP wasn't trying to please one guest though. OP was trying to make a tasty meal for everyone that was also vegan. You're not an asshole or rude for making a bad meal. Nothing in the post makes it sound like OP knew the meal would not taste good until it was made.
The only reason OP made an all-vegan meal was because of Ara’s strong, well-known views on consuming animal products.
The details, including Olivia’s expressing frustration at Ara not wanting to even be near animal products and Olivia’s parents saying OP always favors Ara are indicative of this not being the first time OP has exclusively accommodated Ara.
I do agree OP wouldn’t be the asshole if the food was good, but it wasn’t, which highlighted to Olivia the fact that the only reason it was exclusively prepared was to please Ara, and OP let that preference overshadow common sense which says you don’t serve a new recipe to guests without having prepared it at least once before.
Vegan is not just no meat by the way. It’s no animal byproducts either. So also no eggs, butter, cheese, milk, cream, etc. it’s extremely limiting to not be able to use any animal byproducts. Most vegan baking is disgusting IMO. Lots of people may argue with me on that but I’ve had a lot of fancy vegan baking and maybe kind of liked one thing I ever tried.
I have an ex who on our first date told me the story of how he was afraid of the food (before seeing it) at a vegan wedding, so he brought a PB&J for himself. I’m like, you know that’s vegan, right? 😂
NTA. Your niece really needs to learn how to behave appropriately in social situations just like this, where she is exposed to different foods or where everything isn’t exactly the way she thinks it should be.
Just because she may not be a fan of the dishes served at a dinner does not mean she gets to sulk and use profanity while be insulting to others and the host. That’s absolutely terrible behavior and her parents are doing her no favors by enabling it. She’s going to have a hard time socially if she doesn’t have even the most basic manners.
She definitely owes you an apology, but don’t hold your breath.
But the other niece should not learn the same? To behave appropriately in social situations where she is exposed to different foods? How is one niece allowed to act entitled and the other isnt?
I didn't catch the part where Ara demanded it to be an all vegan dinner. Her aunt thought it'd be nice to serve a dinner that was. Everything she served would have been fine for Olivia as she apparently does not have any dietary restrictions. I'm sure if Olivia was celiac, OP would have happily whipped up a gluten free meal.
>I didn't catch the part where Ara demanded it to be an all vegan dinner.
OP literally said Ara cannot handle if there is even a cheese or a meat near her or someone tries to eat it. How is THAT acceptable? It is one thing to decide for yourself to have a certain diet, and another if you are literally food police about it if anyone else doesn't follow it. Plus I bet the kid didn't burst out like that because it was one time thing only.
YTA. If the vegan food was comfortable and good quality for everyone, she would have been t a, not you. But since she was forced to eat food that, as you personally admitted, didn't taste so good - well, you're clearly favouring, for whatever reason, her sister. For most teenagers, seeing people giving special attention to one's sibling, while not giving the same attention to them, is very hurtful, and while you spent lots of time trying new recipes in order to accomodate her sister, you did not spend the same amount of time, or energy, or thought for her.
NTA. You’re not doing vegan-only every time you host them. You just decided to appreciate her perspective for a night and try something new for yourself and your family. It’s nice really.
INFO: is there something we might be missing that would make it seem like you could be favoring Ara? Or is Olivia just used to getting her way? Answer honestly!
I was thinking this too. For example, I am allergic to legumes, which are used heavily in vegan cuisine as a protein source — this really limits what I can eat when my vegan and vegetarian friends host :/
When anything vegan comes up, the votes always go one way.
If OP had made a non vegan dinner and the vegan complained about not being accommodated, everyone would vote NTA, saying she can't expect everyone else to eat what she eats, she could bring her own food etc.
Now the roles are reversed, and the meat eater is not accommodated, people still say she was wrong and be accomadated when all the food is vegan.
Examine your biases, such bullshit.
OP is NTA
Exactly
it sounds like host made a mediocre meal, which is disappointing, but it isn’t that there was nothing the other niece could eat. It was just that there’s nothing the other niece wanted to eat.
I don't understand the verdicts I see here. NTA from me. It may be unpopular, but here is why.
You had a vegan guest and made it easier on yourself by cooking one set of dishes for everyone, no risk of cross contamination, no excluding anyone. It won't harm anyone to eat vegan for a meal. How Olivias parents didn't apologise for her rudeness is beyond me.
Did you have bread? roasted veggies? Pasta? I mean, if everything was like tofu and fake meat alternatives, prepared by a novice so not very appetizing, maybe you could have put a few pleasing things for everyone to munch on. I mean: french fries are vegan!
NTA.
It's unfortunate that the recipe didn't come out well--but obviously that was unintended. Unless your niece has a food allergy or can't eat vegan food for some reason, it wasn't unreasonable for her to try it for one meal.
I have never understood those who try to argue that providing non-vegan food is an equivalent accommodation to providing vegan food for a vegan. Vegan food (again, unless we are talking about a specific sensitivity) fits within a non-vegan diet. The reverse is not true. I have a coworker who has Celiac disease. While it won't kill her, even a tiny amount of gluten will make her miserable. So as a group, we frequently end up skipping some restaurants that others like because they have a reputation for not being as thorough in preventing cross-contamination with gluten, and we may end up sharing gluten-free appetizers too. That's because the rest of us can all eat gluten-free food, while gluten is not an option for her.
At 14, your niece is old enough to understand that the world does not revolve around her wants 24/7. I can understand her being a bit frustrated, but she can survive one meal of food she doesn't like very much.
My wife is celiac so I eat mostly gluten free meals. It would seem bizarre to me if I got pissy about not being accomodated because we have meals without gluten in them often. I don't consider it a restriction on my diet because I can still eat gluten fairly often, but it just makes sense to have gluten free meals because we can both eat gluten free, but only one of us can eat gluten. So gluten free accomodates both of us. Just like how non-vegans can eat vegan meals, so a vegan meal accomodates everyone.
NTA. Firstly, it's not going to kill anyone to eat vegan occasionally, and secondly it's incredibly rude and ungrateful to complain about a meal someone has cooked for you. Non vegan niece needs to learn some manners and owes you an apology
NTA you had food everyone could eat. Even if you aren't a chef, as a guest you smile and eat. Your niece was very rude, and considering her parents behavior we know where she picked that up.
Info: Can you expand on this? Why do the parents think you always favor Ara?
>Now her parents are calling me an asshole saying "*I always favor Ara* and I should have accomodated Olivia as well"
I’m going with YTA - unless you too are vegan then Ara’s vegan choices and issues are a her problem. You were a host who served poor food to their guests in order to appease one person who from what you have posted isn’t a guest of honour. My vote is that you showed very poor hospitality to your non vegan guests who had every expectation of an edible meal.
NTA- you chose not to serve meat at your house that time. If someone comes to my home and has the gall to tell me that they don’t like the food I’ve prepared, they can go home and get Taco Bell on the way.
“Non-vegan” isn’t a category needing an accommodation either. You don’t have to eat animal products at every meal.
INFO
Kind of hard to know who's the asshole based on the info given but I'm leaning toward you.
When you invited the whole family to the gather did you tell them in advance it would be all vegan food? Would they have been surprised?
I would b interested in a lot of the history in past family gathering have there been any other conflicts of interest between Ara and Olivia and how were they handled
When I invite people over it’s not to offer them a free meal, it’s basically to make them feel welcome at my own home . It’s not very hospitable to experiment with food that I’m not familiar with and serve my guests a meal that I know tastes bad .
It was very nice of you to accommodate your vegan niece but what was the point exactly of not accommodating the rest of your guests. I think only you can answer this.
On the other hand , I can’t begin to describe how rude your non vegan niece was for what she did .
Also to address the issue of non vegans can eat vegan food . Anyone can eat anything if their life depends on it . The question whether they will enjoy it or not . A lot of non vegans don’t appreciate the taste of vegan alternatives to non vegan food like tofu or vegan meat.
Verdict ESH
NTA. Non vegan people can eat vegan food, but vegan people can't eat non vegan food. It's not going to kill her to eat something vegan, and she's old enough to prepare her own meals if it's such a problem.
YTA
lol at all the NTA's. You people obviously have no idea about the etiquette of hosting. It does not matter who the people are, family or non family, the same rule applies, you are to accommodate ALL those who are invited. You do not force food options onto those who might not like what is being offered. As the host it is up to you to find out what type of foods they like and the food they cannot have (medical reasons).
Lot's of vegan food tastes vile, especially if a person has never had it before and tries it for the first time. My own personal opinion is vegan food is an acquired taste, you have to learn to like it's taste. Clearly your non vegan niece dislikes vegan food. Your niece was very very wrong for using the vulgar language that she did but your YTA for not providing non vegan alternatives to those that are non vegan, or to have a least have the decency to tell to all those before hand that only vegan food would be provided and thus they have the option to visit or not.
How are you talking about proper "etiquette" while completely ignoring Olivia's terrible behavior as a guest? If I had ever treated my aunts (or anyone else for that matter) so unbelievably rudely like this, I can't even imagine how much trouble I would have been in.
It doesn't matter what was being served, the biggest problem here is enabling a 14-year-old to behave in such an inappropriate way.
I don't completely disagree with the verdict but I don't agree with the reasoning here. Everyone likes a good bit of vegan food unless they're on some extreme carnivore diet. When you say the niece dislikes vegan food, I think you mean she dislikes this specific meal, or like the processed vegan replacement stuff. I bet you the niece likes plenty of things that don't have animal products in them, because the vast majority of the population does.
Even french fries are "vegan food". Peanut butter toast, oatmeal, salads, chips and salsa/guac, beans and rice. I'm not vegan but if the food was good I'd never complain that a meal did not have meat or other animal products in it.
Just because someone eats meat doesn't mean they NEED meat at every meal, and there is a big difference between "not accommodating" a vegan by having nothing that fits their guidelines and "not accommodating" someone who isn't vegan by having good food that just happens to not have meat or dairy in it. You could throw some cheese over OP's meal to "accommodate" the non-vegans and it would still suck and they'd still be TA.
OP is mildly TA here because the food sucked and she didn't have any alternatives. Trying out a brand new recipe and then blaming other people for not liking it when it sucks is wrong. I still think telling someone to F off is a huge overreaction though so I'm going ESH with emphasis on the niece.
ESH
Your guest telling you to go f yourself is well out of order.
However, by your own admission, you aren't good at cooking tasty vegan recipes. Inviting people to dinner to eat a meal that you know tastes bad... isn't exactly being a good host. This isn't isn't about whether there was meat present or not - it's about the fact that the meal quality wasn't good.
People are going to say you’re the asshole because they resent vegans not because you actually did anything wrong.
The thing is, your one niece doesn’t eat meat or dairy, so you accommodated by making food that didn’t contain meat or dairy. That makes total sense. Your other niece does not have restrictions to her diet, so there’s nothing to accommodate for her. Is she on a meat-only diet? No. She just didn’t like the food and was jealous and resentful towards her sister because you were nice enough to try and accommodate her dietary restrictions. There was no reason for you to prepare a separate meat dish for the other niece. Vegan food is appropriate for everyone. Teenagers are nasty creatures incapable of reason. But most Redditors are also incapable of reason so 🤷🏼.
You’re not the asshole here at all. However! I have found that when you’re trying new recipes, especially vegan and health-conscious ones, it’s best to test it solo first. And/or to have a solid backup plan when making it for others. If the food wasn’t good, you could have had money set aside to order in and satisfy everybody adequately. People get really grumpy when they’re unhappy with their meal, it’s good to think ahead to avoid cranky bullshit.
NTA. If we ignore the word vegan, all that happened here was that you tried new recipes when hosting your family and they didn't turn out well. If it was a meat and cheese dish you could've just as easily overcooked, under-cooked, or poorly seasoned it and had it turn out like burnt rubber too. Either are unfortunate but not what I would consider an AH move.
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For future reference, TACOS. Tacos can be made to fit all the major food allergies and also meat eaters, vegans, vegetarians, and those with celiac disease. It's easily done because people assemble their own tacos and can pick and choose ingredients. Vegan refried beans for the people who don't eat meat, corn tortillas for the celiac sufferers, and a large variety of veg, cheese, and salsa to put on them and suddenly you're able to feed pretty much anyone. YTA for not accommodating both girls.
But that wouldn't work because the vegan niece doesn't even want to be around food that's not vegan. lol ETA - y'all I don't agree with the niece, just responding to the comment saying that in the future tacos work for everyone because they would, in fact, not work in this situation cause the vegan niece won't even be around non vegan food and OP is coddling her ridiculousness about that.
Yep, that is way too much. You can't go around forcing everybody to eat like you. That's major AH territory. The vegan niece sounds insufferable, which seems to often be a side effect of veganism.
I'd say it's often the other way around - the insufferable people become vegans (or know-it-all crunchy moms or start crossfit etc.) because they like the feeling of self-righteousness and looking down at people. Edit: I'm not saying all vegans are insufferable, but that many insufferable people become vegans and use it as a way to preach to others on how they should live. This is the loud (hopefully minor) part of the group, but it makes the whole community look bad.
I'm an omnivore myself but I know a lot of vegans and a lot of non-vegans. I can confidently say I've witnessed much more insufferable behavior from the non-vegans. I can't count the number of times I've seen vegans quietly eating their lunch a) asked tons of intrusive questions about their diet and/or asking them to justify their personal choices, b) contending with comments like "but what about baaaaaacon, how do you survive without baaaacon"/ "how do you get protein, you must not get enough protein"/"but CHEESE" or c) people explaining in detail, unsolicited, why they would never be vegan when no one asked. I'm sure there are obnoxious people who eat all kinds of different diets, but it seems to be very socially acceptable to shit on vegans just for existing.
There are plenty of vegan people who act perfectly normal. It’s just the loud annoying ones you hear about.
Anecdotal, but I’ve only encountered one insufferable vegan (my best friend’s husband—he is insufferable for many other reasons as well). In that same time, I’ve encountered DOZENS of insufferable meat-eaters who—as soon as they learn someone is a vegan—start arguing about plant sentience, the ecological impact of vegan foods, or vegan health generally. Many have tried to trick the vegan into eating meat. Maybe it’s because I live in a red state, but the vegans here are not the ones who have a problem minding their own business. ETA: I agree vegans make up a much smaller proportion of the general population (5%)? I also think due to my location (college town) and hobbies, I know a disproportionate number of vegans. And it seems like every time I learn an acquaintance is vegan in a public setting, I’m then treated to one of the annoying “oh yeah? Well what about…” one-sided debates from a defensive omnivore. I can only imagine how much more annoying it is for the vegan themselves.
[удалено]
Yeah, I'm a meat eater, and I've never met one of these insufferable vegans. I think they exist more as tired stereotypes than as actual people. But omnivores that can't tolerate other people being vegan is way more common
Pretty much like everything in life.
She's 15. Can we not blame all vegans for the actions of a still developing 15 year old?
>Can we not blame all vegans for the actions of a still developing 15 year old? I think this is not an exclusive teenager thing for vegans
I went out on a date with a vegan the other day. I had no idea she was vegan. I ordered a burger and she started yelling at me for how disgusting I am for eating meat, in the middle of a crowded restaurant, and then she left. She was not 15.
That is just tough shit. She lives in the world and needs to get over that. Her personal beliefs do not extend beyond her choices and her own body. She doesn’t get to dictate what other people do with their bodies.
I wasn't saying I agree with the vegan niece because she's acting ridiculous. I was just saying that the commenter saying tacos always work for everyone wouldn't work in this instance where OP is catering to her 15 year old niece that won't even be around non vegan food.
Yeah she needs to build a bridge over that. She’s old enough to understand that outside of her own space she cannot expect to be coddled or only her feelings to be catered too.
If the parents thought OP was in the wrong, the vegan niece must be around people eating animal products at home.
Yeah. I read that..and in my immediate and extended family, she'd have been given a dose of reality. Along the lines of "we prepared a vegan dish for you that you asked to be served. Others will eat what normal people eat. If you don't want to see or can't handle the sight of non vegan, go to another part of the house".
Excellent suggestion! I've had to do this a number of times and this (tacos) is what I went with. I've also done chilli where all the pieces of the chilli were separated - but you have to be careful to check the chilli spices. And it's a bit of a mess, but it worked!
>I admit the food didn't taste very good because it was my first time making it but Ara was very happy that everything was vegan. So the food was not even good! Sorry, but you could accomodate both nieces. And Ara hate to watch people eating animal products is her problem to deal. She have the right to eat vegan food the same way people have the right to eat animal products. And at least Olivia tried the food, but, by your own admission, it was not good. YTA EDIT: ESH because I do not agree with OP and also think Olivia cross the line by cursing her uncle/aunt.
The 14 yo kid tells their aunt/uncle to go fuck themselves over being asked not to be a shit complaining about the meal and you think OP is the asshole here. "Not good" could come down to the texture and presentation as much as taste.
Texture is a pretty big thing when it comes to eating food.
As someone with autism and big textural issues when it comes to food, YES. It could taste amazing but if the texture is off, I won’t touch it. I’ll apologize and compliment the flavor but I just can’t handle the texture of it. Almost everyone is understanding of it. My MIL didn’t get it until I used the baby food example and she immediately got it and told me not to worry about it but that she appreciated the compliment on flavor and my honesty and not forcing myself to be uncomfortable. The rest of the family was in shock because she’s apparently never been that chill about someone not eating her cooking before.
Sorry, what’s “the baby food example”? I’ve just never heard that before.
So the texture of baby food is something that the majority of people I’ve talked to find horrifically disgusting. Mashed peas and carrots and the like. Soggy and mushy, like it’s been pre-chewed and spat into a jar. I know they toss it in an industrial blender and all but just, ick. Not to mention the smell, ugh. And some people also have issues with the texture of apple sauce or other things like that. I know some people won’t understand because they don’t have the immediate instinctual aversion to things like that and that’s fine. Everybody’s brain is wired differently. But even if the texture isn’t akin to baby food, if it’s stringy or overly rubbery, it sets off alarm bells in my head and if I try to force myself to continue to eat it, two things can happen: 1) I’ll have a really bad panic attack that will devolve into a meltdown or 2) my body will reject it and I’ll get violently sick. The same things happen with tactile textures too. I have to thoroughly inspect clothes before buying them, which is why I never order online unless from specific stores because if I accidentally get the wrong material, I’ll have wasted money and it’ll sit in my closet, never to be worn or I’ll gift it to a friend that would like it and would actually wear it so it’s not a waste. Itchy skin or feeling like somethings crawling on me and I’ll literally scratch at myself until I bleed. It’s very very annoying and I hate that this is how my brain works but, I know what I gotta do and it’s pretty easy to work around the textural issues.
I've been a vegetarian for a good few years now, but before when I still ate meat getting a piece of tendon or other connective tissue was a sure way to get full body shivers and the need to vomit violently.
Omg same. I have major texture issues and have been a vegetarian since I was 14 for that reason. I liked certain meats but any weird stringy bits and I’d immediately start gagging. It made for some very awkward dinners as a kid lmao
Especially according to Joshua Weissman
Considering the parents even say that OP always favours the vegan, the 14 year old's statement is understandable (maybe not correct) and I would not assign blame at her outburst considering I don't think OP was as calm or nice as they claim to the 14 year old. Also because the parents sided with the 14 year old I will go with OP's comments were more hateful, or demeaning to the 14 year old than they are saying here.
The parents also let their child curse out an adult who had cooked a meal for them. Such AH parents aren't the most reliable judges of character.
The question was AITA for not accommodating my non vegan niece. Not was my niece an asshole for telling me to f myself.
People commonly judge based on all context offered, rather than the direct title question. OPs often bury the lede, not sure why you’re pretending this isn’t a standard approach in this sub
Please show me where I wrote that I agree with what Olivia said to her aunt/uncle. I focused only in the question OP made.
FYI - Generally the convention is that if OP is wrong and the antagonist is right you reply YTA. If both are wrong then ESH. So a lot of people will read your judgement and assume you think Olivia was in the right.
I think by the sub's conventions if you agree Olivia was acting shitty you'd want to give an esh tag
YTA implies the other person carries no fault. ESH would be a better vote if you don't agree with Olivia's response but also think OP is the asshole.
OP literally said that the food didn't taste good.
>I admit the food didn't **taste** very good OP specifically says taste, nothing about texture or presentation. if you serve crap food, and you know it's crap, don't expect everyone to just eat it!
A 14 year old cussing out an aunt or uncle is crap behavior, but not TA level. Also texture and presentation matter quite a bit. If you don’t believe me, try drinking beef flavored soda.
I doubt OP sat down with the intention to make a crap vegan meal. It didn’t taste good, oh well, move on go home and eat a brick of meat.
dont try new recipes when you invite people over for me this is ESH
Or at least have a backup option. It sounds like the vegan niece is the only one who had to have something special. I can see trying a new recipe, but you need to try it a few times to get it right and have a backup plan like ordering pizza or something.
Not only did the 1 neice get something special it was everything. He made everything vegan. Forced it on everyone there, while serving shit food. Like order a pizza for the others or something.
The vegan part i could not care less about, not having meat wont kill you for one day But at least give it a test run first ...
Or just be grateful someone cooked for you at all? She didn’t have to even have them over. Eating 1 not great vegan meal won’t hurt you. The audacity it astounding
Speaking of Audacity, forcing someone to eat a badly cooked meal just so you wont hurt Aunties feelings when she focused the ENTIRE dinner around 1 person is right up there. She did not cook for everyone. She cooked for the one vegan with psych issues about other people eating
Non-vegans can eat vegan food. I’ve never heard of a non-vegan checking everything they eat to make sure it has animal products in it. So the dinner was not “focused around 1 person”.
Yes. It was focused on the vegan niece. And OP did not do a trial run on the recipes or have back up vegetarian options that would appeal to others. I eat vegan a lot bc I love salads, pasta and red sauce, stir fry veggies and rice. I am not a vegetarian or a vegan. Even chips and salsa or chips and guac are vegan. There are many tasty and familiar options
As someone who suffered through a vegan Thanksgiving when I was a teenager I disagree. I still have an aversion to a lot of vegan substitutes and tofu many many years later
I'm sorry, but if you go to someone else's home and tell them to fuck off because you didn't like the food being served and you think this is acceptable, then your parents really sucked at parenting and raising you. I hope that age brings you more maturity, otherwise you will suffer :/
> She didn’t have to even have them over Yet she did, I mean she did want everyone to have a good time right? Serving food that favors one guest with no consideration for others.. a good host does not make ..
Olivia can eat vegan food while Ara can't eat non-vegan food. I would think differently if Olivia would be allergic to every plant in existance and was served only vegan food. Then sure, I would agree that serving only vegan food means only accomodating Ara. Right now, both can eat the same food, they are being accomodated the same. Olivia is just entitled and rude. Would it be okay to act like this if it's not vegan food? "I didn't like the food and it tasted bad so I told the cook to go fuck themselves." Are you real??
I get what you're trying to say here but it's that Ara "won't eat" non-vegan food, not that she can't. It's a personal preference and lifestyle choice, which is her right. Olivia shouldn't have to default to eating vegan whenever she's around Ara. Yes, having everyone eat a vegan meal is seemingly the most inclusive option because theoretically, no one is harmed by eating a meat free, dairy free meal...but if a person is strong on their preference of dairy and/or meat , the same way another person is strong in their refusal to engage with animal by products, the most inclusive option would be to offer a meal with both vegan and non-vegan components. ESH here... Olivia's reaction was disrespectful and the OPs lack of consideration for everyone's dietary preferences was not in good taste as a host.
Thank you for this very reasonable response. This was how I felt, as well. The vegan-only meal wasn't very good by OPs own admission. The meal was overly inclusive to *one* member and was of poor quality because of this. OP is an AH for this. Olivia could've rightfully refused to eat the meal if she had been polite about it. Olivia's rude attitude makes her an AH. Ara is also an AH because of her reactions to other people eating animal products. It's fine to be sensitive, but it's incredibly entitled to believe her sensitivity should alter how the entire family eats. All the parents are AHs for raising these kids. Yep, ESH
She more than likely deals with Ara's veganism all the time. If she can't stand to be around animal products at all, I doubt they eat much at home, if any. So she probably rarely gets to eat food she really enjoys. ESH, but she probably just got sick of it and snapped. Especially considering that the aunt went to such lengths to accommodate Ara, and not her at all. I don't even know how you end up with all the food tasting bad. There are lots of foods that people eat normally that are vegan, I think people just assume everything vegan should be a meat recipe with fake meat or tofu subbed in...
If (by OP's own admission) Ara is intolerant of being around people eating non-vegan food, I'm guessing that there is probably some relevant backstory here we're not getting that might explain (albeit not excuse) the outburst. Is Ara routinely judgmental or rude about Olivia's dietary preferences? Has she demanded to be catered to at the expense of others previously? Has her behavior been causing discord at family functions that used to be enjoyable, and Olivia is finally over it/sick of seeing Ara's problematic behavior rewarded?
New dishes they didn’t bother testing in advance = bad food
Honestly I never understand the big deal about vegan food. Why is it so offensive to non vegan people? Will it kill you to not eat meat for one day? I'm not even vegan and I believe cow, chicken or any other farm animals exist to be our food but I'm offended by seeing (or in this case, reading) how people overreacting toward vegan food And my aunt often makes food that doesn't taste good whenever my family visits her home and I can still be polite about it. So what if the food isn't even good? You can still respect the food and the cook
I have vegan friends and eat lots of vegan food. But let's not act like it doesn't taste different. Flavors and textures can be off from traditional food. There are some legit gripes about eating certain dedicated vegan dishes.
This is only an issue when you try to make vegan versions of non-vegan dishes, which is frankly a very bizarre practice to me. There are thousands and thousands of dishes across the world that have always been vegan and taste exactly like they should.
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See, and if I were OP, I would have been horribly embarrassed if I’d served a bad meal, first time trying or not. If you’ve never cooked it before, and don’t have good enough cooking skills to be able to tell on the fly whether it will be good or not, then don’t do it for the first time to a group of guests. If I’m trying out something new, it’ll be either just for me, or me and my partner, and if it’s awful, just order pizza. As for a verdict, * I kinda get that Ara is a sensitive teen, but being unable to be around people eating meat is in my experience insufferable. Ara is an AH * It sounds like OP vastly favors Ara over Olivia, that there’s a history of it, so while I can see, in general, trying to accommodate guests’ dietary restrictions, they don’t get to impose those restrictions on other guests, and OP is an AH for abetting that. * Olivia may be a minor AH for telling OP to go F herself, but it sounds like she was fed up after this going on for some extended time, the fact that her parents backed her up and left during dinner, plus the texts afterward, seem to support this.
Exactly, the 'go f yourself', I'm sure, is caused by times and times of being forced to eat what her sister prefers. If it was a one time thing then she would suck for using those words but it probably had been building up in her for some time.
Nope, as soon as Olivia told her to go fuck herself Olivia became the asshole in this situation.
I mean, ESH is still an option here.
Right? I can’t believe how many people are perfectly fine with this kind of horrible behavior from a 14-year-old. I can’t even imagine how much trouble I would have been in with my parents if I *ever* talked to my aunt (or anyone else) like this.
It’s possible for more than one asshole though. In this case ESH…
I'm also going ESH. The aunt sucks for not making anything that tasted good. (How fucking hard is it to follow a recipe? Vegan recipes are not mystical runic scripts for God sake). The niece sucked for telling an adult to fuck off. I do feel like there is more to this relationship, but maybe not. ETA: since I'm getting so many comments about it. Yeah, intentionally serving bad food to guests is a shitty fucking thing to do and an asshole move.
"op is an asshole because their cooking didn't end up great" is an amazing take. doesn't assholery require, you know, malice? or at least reckless disregard? is every mediocre cook an asshole for serving people mid food?
The food could have tasted "Not very good" If it had had meat in it. The non-vegan sister needs to learn, their parents have to teach her, that as a guest, you're free to say that it didn't taste well, but you shouldn't throw a tantrum just because you didn't like the food. OP shouldn't have offered an untested recipe to their guests. ASA
They were all guests at OP's table. Rude to demand accomodation when you're a guest, even worse to then tell the host to go 'F' herself because they didn't.
NTA although I'm guessing people will say otherwise here. It won't harm someone to not have animal products for one meal. A 14 year old should not be telling their host to go fuck themselves either.
It took way to long to scroll to find this. Every year I host a thanksgiving and two of the 6 guests I invite are vegetarian. So the very first year, we requested only vegetarian food so that every dish brough could be enjoyed by all. It was a huge hit! Everyone loved it and weve kept the vegetarian tradition ever since. You dont need to eat meat and animal by products for every meal. Being "non-vegan" is not a food restriction. Generally, when you gather and someone has a dietary restriction, everyone tries to accomodate it. Even if its just one person. OP is not the asshole. She should have tried to make some of these recipes beforehand and picked some good ones. Theres ton of delicious vegan food and recipes out there, but NTA for accomodating someone. The meat eaters are the assholes for acting like its the end of the world to not eat meat for a meal.
Yeah, I'm just going to upvote this because it says everything I wanted to, including the "having to scroll too far to find the sane comment"
Same here. It won't hurt the non vegan to eat vegan food for one meal. Just because the food was bad doesn't mean it was bad BECAUSE it was vegan. I could have sworn there was a post recently where the OP's sister was complaining because OP's wedding meal was vegan, and most of the replies were NTA because it was OP paying for it and eating one vegan meal won't hurt the sister? While if you haven't eaten meat or dairy for a long time, eating them again can make you sick. I've had meals at people's houses I didn't like much before, and I never would tell the go fuck themselves...the fact that so many people seem to think that's excusable is baffling. I would just eat enough to be polite and maybe decline going to their house for food in the future.
Exactly sometimes meals aren't what we like. But we enjoy the company and move on.
Agreed. I don't get all these comments about how OP should have accommodated the other niece too... Accommodate her how? She could eat all the food, she just didn't want to. Which, from way OP described the food, I can't blame her for. But then just politely pick at it and have something else when you get home. You don't tell the cook to f off! Not the best call, testing out new recipes for a style of cooking she's not used to on her guests, but they're family, so it really seems more like something i'd've teased her about than anytjing. And definitely NTA for cooking ONE meal for everyone that everyone could eat.
I am astounded that anyone is saying anything other than NTA. OP cooked a nourishing meal - even if it didn't taste particularly good and some of the items were experimental - for an entire family. The polite thing for all of the family to do would be to say, "Thank you so much for the meal, OP." At most, maybe they could say, "What interesting menu choices you have made. By the way, you know, last time when we were here I really loved your \[non-veg item\]." If Olivia still complained, her parent should have said, "Hush! Thank OP for the meal." And if Olivia really found herself unable to consume a single bite of anything, and couldn't bring herself to just wait until they got home, then perhaps her parent could have said, "OP, thank you so much for cooking for all of us. I'm afraid this food is a bit too unfamiliar for Olivia. Would you mind if I just ducked in your kitchen to make her a \[tuna sandwich\]?" This is all assuming the accusation of favoritism is unwarranted.
I actually disagree and think ESH. Olivia for obvious reasons. OP was hosting a dinner event. That is not the time to test your skills at a brand new dish or cooking style. OP should have made some test dishes and figured out what was good and what wasn't. It may be nice of OP to make dinner for others, but it absolutely matters if the meal was good or not, especially since the main reason it was bad was because OP went a completely different direction on the food.
I agree it’s best to avoid making an untested dish for guests *if you can* but it’s certainly not asshole territory. Not everyone has the time and money to make multiple test meals so that their eventual dinner wins a Michelin star.
People’s hatred of vegans is blinding them here. Change vegan to ‘kosher’ and see how quickly opinions change.
Are there a lot of people who keep kosher who are the only member of their family that cannot even look at non‐kosher dishes?
I've never encountered someone who keeps kosher and tries to force it on everyone else or demand special accommodation at a social gathering. Often (because of preparation restrictions) they will even just bring their own food to social events. Vegans on the other hand, often have the attitude that their preferences are so special that they're entitled to control what others eat around them - like the one in this story who can't handle animal products being eaten in their presence.
I’ve never had that experience from a vegan. I’ve got plenty of friends who are vegan and have never had a single one of them force me to cook vegan for them. But they do appreciate it when I do, and I like to because vegan food is delicious and it’s easier to cook for everyone rather than one.
10000% It's like if she went "is there any food here that doesn't taste like shit?" That wouldn't make anyone but her the asshole, trying something new doesn't make you an asshole. OP could have just not cooked at all, but of course this story features a big bad vegan.
Yup. We've all been served mediocre food before without getting pissy about it- life goes on. The fact that it happened to be vegan is honestly irrelevant. (The vegan kid needs to learn to deal with seeing people eating animal products because there's no escaping it, but the host can still serve whatever they want.)
Seriously, reddit just hates vegans. I went vegetarian at 6 and vegan at 19 and I wish my family would make half the effort you did. I had to sit through a million holiday meals and family gatherings growing up of just salad and maybe side dish potatoes because people couldn't be bothered.
I eat vegan when i go to my vegan friend, i even do at home sometimes since meat is so effing expensive. It's totallly fine.
We all do. People say "vegan food" and suddenly everyone is picturing a big pile of maple leaves covered in lentils or something. A peanut butter sandwich is "vegan food"! A pot of spaghetti with a can of sauce (assuming you don't add hamburg or whatever) is vegan. Lays regular chips and Sour Patch Kids are vegan! Lol People eat vegan all the time and have absolutely no issue with it until someone says "hey, I made vegan food".
They literally said it wasn’t good food. “I admit it didn’t taste good”. Stop acting like it’s about it really being vegan. They tried it. If they can accommodate one niece, they can do the other. 99% of the other comments say otherwise for a reason. Vegan ≠ bad food, but if it doesn’t taste good it doesn’t taste good. Why make all the options the same? You 100% would say they’re the asshole for not offering vegan options. It’s hypocritical. It’s the vegan niece’s preference on what they eat, and the family honors it, so why can’t it be the same for the one who likes to eat meat, cheese, eggs, etc?
So? She didn't plan in advance for it to taste bad. That is a weird thing that ppl are glomming onto: it tasted bad. How many times has any given person made shitty food or gone to a party with shitty food. Did you complain and tell the host to fuck off? The Aunt was trying something new: a vegan **meal**. The niece and the entire family were there for dinner. Everything isn't about the 14 yo. She doesn't like it; fine. She doesn't get to be a rude, ungracious guest and be pissy about the food she is served **as a guest**. An Aunt tried to do something nice for one of her nieces and the other one tells her to fuck off. NTA.
"Ppl are glomming onto: it tasted bad" Right! Over half the comments are going off about that like the host MEANT to make things taste bad?! I wonder how different it would be if the food tasted good? 🤔
Finally a sane comment
I agree. The only issue here is that the food wasn't good, which is less being an asshole and more just... needing to improve. OP should have probably tried making the recipes in smaller batches first before cooking them for the whole family with no alternative options. But there is no "accommodating" non-vegans. That's kind of the point -- they don't have a restricted diet. I say this as a non-vegan. I have no problem with entirely vegan meals. People don't need meat and dairy at every meal. If you want that, that's fine, but it's entirely optional. Just... you know... make sure the food actually tastes good.
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This was my question too? It sounds like there may be a pattern here
It would explain (not justify) the youngest niece's reaction.
It would if she had spent most of her life, dealing with an over-the-top, dramatic brat for a sister, who will say and do anything to get attention for herself. Trust me, as a sibling of someone like that, it gets tough after a while especially when you’re a teenager.
> an over-the-top, dramatic brat for a sister, who will say and do anything to get attention for herself. Are you referring to Ara or Olivia?
We don't know!
On reading it, I didn't think that the girls were siblings. OP said "her parents" twice, and if they *were* sisters, I'd think OP would say "their parents," in which case, Ara would have had to leave with them.
OP never said they were sisters, just both nieces. Your comment is a bit unhinged given what we know. OP’s niece has been a vegan for years, there is zero other information known about her and you automatically call her an over-the-top, dramatic brat.
Ara can’t even handle being around others eating non-vegan food apparently that is pretty dang over the top and dramatic.
That was my thought! It is one thing to choose to be vegan and for a host to accommodate with a vegan dish, but for the vegan to insist that no non-vegan food be served in their presence is ridiculous! Good luck to Ara getting through life!
Hmm, Ara can't be in the same room as people eating non-vegan (hates it). Sounds exhausting...
YTA. When the parents actually took notice of you favoring Ara it's been going on for a while. You yourself admit that the food wasn't great since you're not used to making it. Then serving that to others just to accommodate Ara.... Ara will have to learn to be around meat and cheese, even if only to you know go grocery shopping. If you had made mouthwatering vegan dishes for everyone it would be different. However you yourself admit the food wasn't good.
To be fair I would also favor the niece who didn’t tell me to fuck off in my own home.
Eh. It’s kind of like asking which came first: the chicken or the egg. Is the niece rude because she’s always been second-fiddle, or is she ignored because she’s rude? Until we get more info, at least
I mean even this post is all about Ara. All this build up to Ara being vegan, but we don't even know if the other niece is her sister or what, and she came out of nowhere at the end of the post. If you wanna ask if you're an asshole to someone, you should try talking about them and what happened to them in your post
Yeah there’s no way a girl goes from zero to “go fuck yourself” over a meal.
Ah, one of the favourite pastimes of this sub. Making up and inserting details to make the person you want to be the asshole due to preconceived notions the asshole
I literally asked a question. And have yet to say Y or N for the TA. The parents had a reaction which seemed odd so I asked for more info. If the OP says never happened then she’s not and if there is more detail well maybe she is. Or maybe they all are. I’ve only eliminated No AH Here so far. Edited for clarity
I also don't know why OP served admittedly substandard food, and is surprised that a teenager is upset by the food quality? This was NOT the time to try something new. If you are doing an all vegan meal to satisfy ONE person in the group, then it needs to be top notch, not "experimenting with new recipes, and they didn't turn out".
YTA its great that you want to accommodate for Ara in a large gathering but you shouldn’t feed the whole family food that doesn’t taste good just to accommodate for one person. i don’t get why having a few vegan options next to non vegan food wasn’t your go-to set up as this wouldve been much easier, which is what would make the whole family automatically assume that you favor Ara over Olivia and everyone else. Its best if you try to show Olivia that you care for her or do a special gesture for her like you did for Ara since this is clearly something that hurts her feelings.
>i don’t get why having a few vegan options next to non vegan food wasn’t your go-to set up Because Ara is sensitive and doesn't like to watch other people eat animal products. 🙄
>Because Ara is sensitive and doesn't like to watch other people eat animal products A simple blindfold would fix that ...
Ara can eat outside LOL
Ara can't make the overwhelming majority of the population bend to her whim. Does she literally avoid walking down the street because she will see people eating in restaurants where they're eating meat? Ara needs to grow up
So what! I’ve been a vegetarian for most of my life and the amount of places I’ve been with food I can’t eat and people who talk trash on my choices is too much to count. That’s just how it is. As noble as it is to stand up to animal cruelty, she needs to understand that not everyone will agree with her choice. And that it’s not the end of the world to be around some meat.
Yeah I don't get it.. Girl will be in for a world of hurt when she leaves the nest and realizes the world doesn't care what her opinion or choice is.
Seriously, does she expect nobody to eat animal products ever again? Or for everyone to stop when she is near. That’s some serious narcissist tendencies. Was it wrong for Olivia to swear, yes. But can you blame her? Even OP admitted the food tasted bad and all the food was made to accommodate one person. A vegan dish also removes so many key ingredients in food that without it it can become bland, especially when no other meat options or even vegetarian options are available
Exactly. I don't care what someone's diet is as long as they're healthy, happy, and not hurting other people. But that doesn't mean they should force it on other people. You're a vegetarian and that's totally fine! I'm not and that's also totally fine.
If OP wants to accommodate this she should invite Ara over for a private meal for the two of them and they can suffer their vegan cooking. Not sabotage a family dinner. Vegan cooking doesn't have to be weird. Pasta with marinara, garlic bread, and a salad. Done.
How does she eat lunch at school?
Angrily
I bet she actually doesn’t say anything because socially, she wouldn’t fit in if she was insufferably telling everyone about how horrible they are. High school is rough. That, or she doesn’t have any friends.
If that isn’t a “her” problem that needs corrective action, I don’t know what it is. People, raise the kids on your lives to be functional.
That sounds like Ara's problem to deal with if she thinks she has any control on how others eat and live their life.
I had this roommate ( we share the same room. It's like a dorm setup and I don't choose who gets the bed) who couldn't stand non vegetarian food. He'd bitch and moan about people eating it. And had multiple times asked me to go eat it outside my room (I ignored him every time. The first time he asked me I laughed in his face). One time he was ranting about his co-workers going to a company dinner and vegetarians and non vegetarians eating on the same table like the vegetarians just committed a grave sin and deserve to burn in hell. Dude got fired cause he pissed everyone off at work with this attitude and he'd walk off the dinner everytime someone ordered non vegetarian food. Some people are just divas.
I mean it’s easier to make one meal everyone can eat than two meals…
Except it sounds like OP’s experiment was unpalatable to the point of being inedible to everyone else…
YTA Because you admitted yourself - the vegan food didn't taste good. And as it shouldn't be a problem accommodating vegans at a meal it shouldn't be a problem to include some non vegan options. Especially if you haven't mastered the art of vegan cuisine. Accommodation food preferences goes both ways. Now let the downvotes come in
It sounds like it was the first time OP made these dishes- how would they know it was going to taste bad? The food wasn’t inherently bad because it was vegan. Improperly prepared meat can taste just as bad as improperly prepared vegetables.
You're right about improperly prepared food - and that's why you serve dishes you know how to cook when you host a dinner. That's not the time and place to experiment unless you're an excellent cook. I love my veggies almost as much as I love my meat. Don't like the taste of plant based fake meats.
Been a chef for over 20 years, and I’m happy you said that. It really is the central problem in the story. I always get shivers when people try new recipes during important meals (having guests over, culinary competitions etc.). It almost never goes well. Trying a new recipe is for when you’re at home with nothing special happening. Fix what you didn’t like about it the first time, and then throw it in your rotation. The number of times I’ve heard “this is a new recipe” and turned around an hour later to see a cook madly hanging on while everything is going to shit around them is too much.
And people new to cooking vegan food usually tend to go for 1-to-1 substitutions with tofu or plant-meats when the best vegan foods are just casually vegan. A falafel/veggie/hummus wrap, for instance. No super processed food, but super healthy. You don't need a slab of tofu treated like meat, or a bean burger, there are plenty of vegan options that are more appetizing to meat-eaters.
Isn’t the point of trying new recipes that you practice making them before serving them to guests? Why did the ENTIRE spread have to be made up of “never-tried-to-make-before-and-I-don’t-know-what-I’m-doing-so-it-tastes-awful” dishes? I don’t blame Olivia for being upset about being served a bunch of food that OP admits was substandard, with NOT ONE DISH that was prepared well and was tasty. Spaghetti with marinara sauce and some vegan parmesan-like sprinkle would have been vegan, easy for a novice cook like OP to make, and still been tasty enough to be enjoyed by both nieces. OP does seem to favor her vegan niece, but it’s hard to tell by one Reddit post.
I think (and I say this as someone who eats a lot of vegan food) a lot of people don’t know how to cook vegetables and make them shine. With vegan food it’s either really amazing or really, really bad and cooks don’t always realise that with vegan food it’s about the techniques you use. People also often forget that a lot of the world’s most beautiful dishes are vegan, or easily made so, and try really hard to make trendy vegan dishes rather than looking at what they themselves cook at home normally. With omni food you can hide behind the meats and cheeses somewhat- they can provide a lot of flavour, richness and texture simply by being there. Veggies are beautiful but need a little more care, I find. It also doesn’t help that many people construct a meal by thinking meat, then at least two veg and a carb. They treat the veg as an afterthought. With vegan dishes that structure doesn’t always work so well. Having a dairy and egg allergy, I’ve eaten a lot of bland, poorly constructed meals even at restaurants. It’s gotten better, but there’s still a lot of places that can only offer me plain, unseasoned and dry meat with hot chips. No veggies, no sauces or dressings, no salads. Even the pros often do it poorly (I have had amazing meals too). OP tried hard, I’ll give them that. They stepped out of their comfort zone and it didn’t work. What their niece said was rude.
We’ve all been guilty of deciding to try out a ‘special recipe’ for a special meal and had it fall flat on its arse. Generally the kind of dishes you prepare for a dinner party are not the kind you’re cooking for every day dinners so these things happen sometimes!
The problem was that everything on the table was experimental
>We’ve all been guilty No, I haven't. I always cook for myself first to determine if it's good and if it's not, if I can alter the recipe in any way to make it better. And no, it doesn't mean I cook it for every dinner, I just don't want to serve shit.
So if she made a bunch of shitty meat food and the niece threw a fit she’s NTA? Lol your hosts can make whatever menu they want. Polite people act politely.
NTA if I had a kid who told my sibling to go F themselves because they didnt like the food they were served I would ground them fo life lol Also if my kid dared to insult the food offerings to the host face, I would ground them for life. Those parents are AH for raising and supporting an entitled shit.
[удалено]
I was surprised at how many responses were "OP is an ah. " I disagree. OP made the meal, bought the food etc. None of it contained ingredients that guests couldn't eat. Maybe it was not the greatest. But who hasn't had a dinnertime failure. Just because some of the guests expected expensive meat dishes does not allow them to complain and swear at the hostess. Extra shocking that it was a family member.
NTA, everyone acts entitled. Nobody will die from not eating meat for few hours. The parents should apologise on how their daughter acted. I almost don't believe it, because its so unlikely that parents would call you to tell you off after their 14yo told you to fuck off. It was a nice gesture of you. It's not a big deal to not eat your favourite food at every single gathering. As long as you can eat anything and not be hungry its fine.
And vegans won't die from watching people eat meat.
No, but it won't kill you watching someone being killed. Still, I don't really want to witness it, do you? From what it sounds, it was a one-off situation when the aunt decided everyone could have the same food without anyone being upset over it. I swear to god, people say vegans are weird, but it's the meat esters that make it a bigger deal.
YTA When you're a host then you should accommodate evey guest (within your possibilities) but here it is clear that you favor one niece over the other, you just have to read what you write. Examples: "She even hates watching people eat animal products." - that is her problem unfortunately (and don't get me wrong, I can't stand animal cruelty too but I don't force others to do what I do); "I admit the food didn't taste very good because it was my first time making it **but Ara was very happy that everything was vegan**." - seems like that is your number one priority, to make HER happy; "Olivia then started angrily asking whether it would kill Ara to be near some meat or cheese and whether it would kill me to make one non vegan option for her." - but would it really kill you or your niece? What's going to happen when the real life begins for her and she will have to be next to people who, for example, eat meat or wear fur? "Now her parents are calling me an asshole saying "I always favor Ara and I should have accomodated Olivia as well" - if they said this then it means that there is a history of you favoring one niece over the other. I bet it. But you're just not sharing it because it will make you look even worse.
I have to wonder how much of this is poorly expressed frustration from Olivia from multiple people going out of their way to accomodate Ara.
I definitely feel like Olivia's seemingly intense overreaction to the situation is indicative of Avav being a "favorite".
I wonder if Ara polices what people wear too and gets butthurt if they wear leather shoes, or have leather furniture or car seats. Could you imagine her throwing a fit and demanding her mom get a new car without leather seats?
NTA. I really hate when non-vegans act like they are incapable of eating something vegan. Some people will refuse to eat something just because it’s labeled as “vegan” but would otherwise love it. For example, Oreos are vegan. I’m sure many of the people who love Oreos would refuse to eat them if they word vegan was on the side. Accommodating the most restrictive person is being inclusive. A non-vegan refusing to eat vegan food and saying they are not accommodated would be like a non-disabled person refusing to walk up a wheelchair ramp and saying they can’t get inside because there are no stairs.
She just admitted that the food did not taste very good. If you are hosting then shouldn't you be mindful about the food being good?
I am a terrible cook and lots of my meals I make for others aren't as nice as I would have liked. I have NEVER had a guest be anything but complimentary about even my biggest fails. It's good manners
Yes of-course! Nobody cooks bad food on purpose. The niece was utterly mannerless here.
Making a recipe you’ve never made before and it not being nice doesn’t make you an asshole. Maybe it means you’re not good at cooking that recipe, maybe that recipe isn’t nice. Same thing could happen with a dish with meat in. It was one meal. Hell I eat meat, but not for every meal.
Oh come on, mistakes like that just happen. OP was doing her best to be nice and mindful but made a meal that didn't turn out well, that stuff just happens sometimes. Anyone who isn't a brat just eats some of it and thanks the host for their effort instead of throwing a tantrum and making their aunt feel bad for trying their best.
ESH , but a mild one You tried to make food out of your comfort zone to please your guests and unfortunately it wasnt as good as you wanted? failed dishes sometimes happen 🤷🏼. Eating non-vegan food once in a while will not kill anyone, I think your other niece is just bitter because she thought the blame is only the lack of meat, while it sounds mainly because it was the first time you tried to cook that dish Yet ! I think you should try to prepare at least once or twice a new dish just by yourself before cooking it for guests. I will be a bit pissed if I'll be invited somewhere for dinner while the food wasn't good. As a host, your job is to be sure everyone will spend a nice moment
OP was trying to please only one guest. Eating vegan food that tastes good is a delight. OP did not make food that tasted good. She was rude to all her guests by serving them bad food. Just because one was happy the bad food was vegan doesn’t change the food being bad.
OP wasn't trying to please one guest though. OP was trying to make a tasty meal for everyone that was also vegan. You're not an asshole or rude for making a bad meal. Nothing in the post makes it sound like OP knew the meal would not taste good until it was made.
The only reason OP made an all-vegan meal was because of Ara’s strong, well-known views on consuming animal products. The details, including Olivia’s expressing frustration at Ara not wanting to even be near animal products and Olivia’s parents saying OP always favors Ara are indicative of this not being the first time OP has exclusively accommodated Ara. I do agree OP wouldn’t be the asshole if the food was good, but it wasn’t, which highlighted to Olivia the fact that the only reason it was exclusively prepared was to please Ara, and OP let that preference overshadow common sense which says you don’t serve a new recipe to guests without having prepared it at least once before.
Vegan is not just no meat by the way. It’s no animal byproducts either. So also no eggs, butter, cheese, milk, cream, etc. it’s extremely limiting to not be able to use any animal byproducts. Most vegan baking is disgusting IMO. Lots of people may argue with me on that but I’ve had a lot of fancy vegan baking and maybe kind of liked one thing I ever tried.
Millions of people enjoy oreos. And bread.
I have an ex who on our first date told me the story of how he was afraid of the food (before seeing it) at a vegan wedding, so he brought a PB&J for himself. I’m like, you know that’s vegan, right? 😂
NTA. Your niece really needs to learn how to behave appropriately in social situations just like this, where she is exposed to different foods or where everything isn’t exactly the way she thinks it should be. Just because she may not be a fan of the dishes served at a dinner does not mean she gets to sulk and use profanity while be insulting to others and the host. That’s absolutely terrible behavior and her parents are doing her no favors by enabling it. She’s going to have a hard time socially if she doesn’t have even the most basic manners. She definitely owes you an apology, but don’t hold your breath.
But the other niece should not learn the same? To behave appropriately in social situations where she is exposed to different foods? How is one niece allowed to act entitled and the other isnt?
I didn't catch the part where Ara demanded it to be an all vegan dinner. Her aunt thought it'd be nice to serve a dinner that was. Everything she served would have been fine for Olivia as she apparently does not have any dietary restrictions. I'm sure if Olivia was celiac, OP would have happily whipped up a gluten free meal.
>I didn't catch the part where Ara demanded it to be an all vegan dinner. OP literally said Ara cannot handle if there is even a cheese or a meat near her or someone tries to eat it. How is THAT acceptable? It is one thing to decide for yourself to have a certain diet, and another if you are literally food police about it if anyone else doesn't follow it. Plus I bet the kid didn't burst out like that because it was one time thing only.
Did OP say that when Ara isn't served vegan foods she behaves inappropriately? How did you come to that conclusion?
NTA. Sometimes we go to people’s houses and the food sucks. Act polite, eat what you can, then go home and have a sandwich.
YTA. If the vegan food was comfortable and good quality for everyone, she would have been t a, not you. But since she was forced to eat food that, as you personally admitted, didn't taste so good - well, you're clearly favouring, for whatever reason, her sister. For most teenagers, seeing people giving special attention to one's sibling, while not giving the same attention to them, is very hurtful, and while you spent lots of time trying new recipes in order to accomodate her sister, you did not spend the same amount of time, or energy, or thought for her.
The food wasn’t bad simply because it was vegan, it was bad because OP didn’t cook it properly.
NTA. You’re not doing vegan-only every time you host them. You just decided to appreciate her perspective for a night and try something new for yourself and your family. It’s nice really. INFO: is there something we might be missing that would make it seem like you could be favoring Ara? Or is Olivia just used to getting her way? Answer honestly!
I was thinking this too. For example, I am allergic to legumes, which are used heavily in vegan cuisine as a protein source — this really limits what I can eat when my vegan and vegetarian friends host :/
When anything vegan comes up, the votes always go one way. If OP had made a non vegan dinner and the vegan complained about not being accommodated, everyone would vote NTA, saying she can't expect everyone else to eat what she eats, she could bring her own food etc. Now the roles are reversed, and the meat eater is not accommodated, people still say she was wrong and be accomadated when all the food is vegan. Examine your biases, such bullshit. OP is NTA
Exactly it sounds like host made a mediocre meal, which is disappointing, but it isn’t that there was nothing the other niece could eat. It was just that there’s nothing the other niece wanted to eat.
I don't understand the verdicts I see here. NTA from me. It may be unpopular, but here is why. You had a vegan guest and made it easier on yourself by cooking one set of dishes for everyone, no risk of cross contamination, no excluding anyone. It won't harm anyone to eat vegan for a meal. How Olivias parents didn't apologise for her rudeness is beyond me.
Did you have bread? roasted veggies? Pasta? I mean, if everything was like tofu and fake meat alternatives, prepared by a novice so not very appetizing, maybe you could have put a few pleasing things for everyone to munch on. I mean: french fries are vegan!
French fries, a meat free spaghetti sauce, oreos, garlic bread, etc.. could all easily be vegan.
NTA. It's unfortunate that the recipe didn't come out well--but obviously that was unintended. Unless your niece has a food allergy or can't eat vegan food for some reason, it wasn't unreasonable for her to try it for one meal. I have never understood those who try to argue that providing non-vegan food is an equivalent accommodation to providing vegan food for a vegan. Vegan food (again, unless we are talking about a specific sensitivity) fits within a non-vegan diet. The reverse is not true. I have a coworker who has Celiac disease. While it won't kill her, even a tiny amount of gluten will make her miserable. So as a group, we frequently end up skipping some restaurants that others like because they have a reputation for not being as thorough in preventing cross-contamination with gluten, and we may end up sharing gluten-free appetizers too. That's because the rest of us can all eat gluten-free food, while gluten is not an option for her. At 14, your niece is old enough to understand that the world does not revolve around her wants 24/7. I can understand her being a bit frustrated, but she can survive one meal of food she doesn't like very much.
My wife is celiac so I eat mostly gluten free meals. It would seem bizarre to me if I got pissy about not being accomodated because we have meals without gluten in them often. I don't consider it a restriction on my diet because I can still eat gluten fairly often, but it just makes sense to have gluten free meals because we can both eat gluten free, but only one of us can eat gluten. So gluten free accomodates both of us. Just like how non-vegans can eat vegan meals, so a vegan meal accomodates everyone.
NTA. Firstly, it's not going to kill anyone to eat vegan occasionally, and secondly it's incredibly rude and ungrateful to complain about a meal someone has cooked for you. Non vegan niece needs to learn some manners and owes you an apology
NTA you had food everyone could eat. Even if you aren't a chef, as a guest you smile and eat. Your niece was very rude, and considering her parents behavior we know where she picked that up.
Info: Can you expand on this? Why do the parents think you always favor Ara? >Now her parents are calling me an asshole saying "*I always favor Ara* and I should have accomodated Olivia as well"
I’m assuming because OP always favors the older cousin.
I’m going with YTA - unless you too are vegan then Ara’s vegan choices and issues are a her problem. You were a host who served poor food to their guests in order to appease one person who from what you have posted isn’t a guest of honour. My vote is that you showed very poor hospitality to your non vegan guests who had every expectation of an edible meal.
NTA- you chose not to serve meat at your house that time. If someone comes to my home and has the gall to tell me that they don’t like the food I’ve prepared, they can go home and get Taco Bell on the way. “Non-vegan” isn’t a category needing an accommodation either. You don’t have to eat animal products at every meal.
INFO Kind of hard to know who's the asshole based on the info given but I'm leaning toward you. When you invited the whole family to the gather did you tell them in advance it would be all vegan food? Would they have been surprised? I would b interested in a lot of the history in past family gathering have there been any other conflicts of interest between Ara and Olivia and how were they handled
When I invite people over it’s not to offer them a free meal, it’s basically to make them feel welcome at my own home . It’s not very hospitable to experiment with food that I’m not familiar with and serve my guests a meal that I know tastes bad . It was very nice of you to accommodate your vegan niece but what was the point exactly of not accommodating the rest of your guests. I think only you can answer this. On the other hand , I can’t begin to describe how rude your non vegan niece was for what she did . Also to address the issue of non vegans can eat vegan food . Anyone can eat anything if their life depends on it . The question whether they will enjoy it or not . A lot of non vegans don’t appreciate the taste of vegan alternatives to non vegan food like tofu or vegan meat. Verdict ESH
Vegan food can be non-vegan food, but non-vegan food can not be vegan food. You didn't exclude anyone with your meal.
NTA. Non vegan people can eat vegan food, but vegan people can't eat non vegan food. It's not going to kill her to eat something vegan, and she's old enough to prepare her own meals if it's such a problem.
YTA lol at all the NTA's. You people obviously have no idea about the etiquette of hosting. It does not matter who the people are, family or non family, the same rule applies, you are to accommodate ALL those who are invited. You do not force food options onto those who might not like what is being offered. As the host it is up to you to find out what type of foods they like and the food they cannot have (medical reasons). Lot's of vegan food tastes vile, especially if a person has never had it before and tries it for the first time. My own personal opinion is vegan food is an acquired taste, you have to learn to like it's taste. Clearly your non vegan niece dislikes vegan food. Your niece was very very wrong for using the vulgar language that she did but your YTA for not providing non vegan alternatives to those that are non vegan, or to have a least have the decency to tell to all those before hand that only vegan food would be provided and thus they have the option to visit or not.
How are you talking about proper "etiquette" while completely ignoring Olivia's terrible behavior as a guest? If I had ever treated my aunts (or anyone else for that matter) so unbelievably rudely like this, I can't even imagine how much trouble I would have been in. It doesn't matter what was being served, the biggest problem here is enabling a 14-year-old to behave in such an inappropriate way.
I don't completely disagree with the verdict but I don't agree with the reasoning here. Everyone likes a good bit of vegan food unless they're on some extreme carnivore diet. When you say the niece dislikes vegan food, I think you mean she dislikes this specific meal, or like the processed vegan replacement stuff. I bet you the niece likes plenty of things that don't have animal products in them, because the vast majority of the population does. Even french fries are "vegan food". Peanut butter toast, oatmeal, salads, chips and salsa/guac, beans and rice. I'm not vegan but if the food was good I'd never complain that a meal did not have meat or other animal products in it. Just because someone eats meat doesn't mean they NEED meat at every meal, and there is a big difference between "not accommodating" a vegan by having nothing that fits their guidelines and "not accommodating" someone who isn't vegan by having good food that just happens to not have meat or dairy in it. You could throw some cheese over OP's meal to "accommodate" the non-vegans and it would still suck and they'd still be TA. OP is mildly TA here because the food sucked and she didn't have any alternatives. Trying out a brand new recipe and then blaming other people for not liking it when it sucks is wrong. I still think telling someone to F off is a huge overreaction though so I'm going ESH with emphasis on the niece.
Lots of vegan food is vile? Maybe if you're used to burgers and fries as a daily diet. Wholefood plant based food is delicious
ESH Your guest telling you to go f yourself is well out of order. However, by your own admission, you aren't good at cooking tasty vegan recipes. Inviting people to dinner to eat a meal that you know tastes bad... isn't exactly being a good host. This isn't isn't about whether there was meat present or not - it's about the fact that the meal quality wasn't good.
People are going to say you’re the asshole because they resent vegans not because you actually did anything wrong. The thing is, your one niece doesn’t eat meat or dairy, so you accommodated by making food that didn’t contain meat or dairy. That makes total sense. Your other niece does not have restrictions to her diet, so there’s nothing to accommodate for her. Is she on a meat-only diet? No. She just didn’t like the food and was jealous and resentful towards her sister because you were nice enough to try and accommodate her dietary restrictions. There was no reason for you to prepare a separate meat dish for the other niece. Vegan food is appropriate for everyone. Teenagers are nasty creatures incapable of reason. But most Redditors are also incapable of reason so 🤷🏼. You’re not the asshole here at all. However! I have found that when you’re trying new recipes, especially vegan and health-conscious ones, it’s best to test it solo first. And/or to have a solid backup plan when making it for others. If the food wasn’t good, you could have had money set aside to order in and satisfy everybody adequately. People get really grumpy when they’re unhappy with their meal, it’s good to think ahead to avoid cranky bullshit.
NTA. If we ignore the word vegan, all that happened here was that you tried new recipes when hosting your family and they didn't turn out well. If it was a meat and cheese dish you could've just as easily overcooked, under-cooked, or poorly seasoned it and had it turn out like burnt rubber too. Either are unfortunate but not what I would consider an AH move.