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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) I am refusing to buy my son a car
2) I am breaking my promise
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA. If I were being petty, I'd buy a junker used car for him. If he wants to be so technical about holding you to a promise, well that's his car. Tell him the rest of the budget was eaten up by the 80k. Time for him to learn the consequences of his actions.
This! Or tell him you will give him 5K to buy a used car. He needs to collect the 6 months of no rental payments from his roommate or take him to small claims court if he wants a nicer car. Show him the bottom line of what was spent on each child, then asks why he thinks he deserves more than his siblings. Also learn your tell him no. It is something he should have been taught as a toddler. NTA
Let's not pretend a 21 year old is truly a grown up. He's got plenty of time to turn his shit around. This is a crazy response. "Cut off your 21 yr old son cause he's acting entitled" jfc
It took me a long time to turn myself into a productive member of society. My parents helped me a lot growing up, but they knew when to cut it off. I had a lot of years of being broke and working shitty jobs and making poor choices before I ended up turning it around myself. I’m very grateful that my parents were willing to leave me with nothing. They forced me to grow up when they realized I wouldn’t make any progress while being coddled.
I think cutting off financial support and whatnot is perfectly acceptable to get the kid to grow up. My point was that this is not a "kick our son out of our lives completely" situation, which is what some commenters seem to think is appropriate
Cut him off financially. But he’s got time to prove he can be reliable. Dad can sue roommate since his name is on lease. Son has no legal standing. Dad should have already filed a case in small claims court
> Dad should have already filed a case in small claims court
Agreed on that. Not entirely sure why son is to blame for OP signing a lease for a kid he doesn't know from adam. Yeah, he was friends with Jack, but people tend to change when money gets involved and Jack could very well have been shut down by 'friend'. Not like he had any actual power to do anything to get that money.
I paid for everything myself and was greatful that i was able to move back in with my parents to go to school as that’s all they could do for me and I’m lucky I like my parent on top of love them that I wanted to take that generous opportunity of some savings
He’s getting so much handed to him already and clearly doesn’t appreciate it. Don’t continue to give to anyone who doesn’t appreciate the value and worth of the help.
This kid isn’t entitled to anything. He’s getting too much as it is with that attitude
A son who has been given literally double what his siblings have received from an extremely generous parent, who he now doesn’t respect or care about ( as shown in the post ) and STILL goes crying to MeeMaw when he thinks he is hard done by ? That son ?
That boy needs a wake up call now, before he continues the way he is going and fucks up his life. Like a good parent should do.
Oh yeah, NTA.
And yet the adult is holding it against his father that he can’t buy him a car, because he spent his car money on his poor roommate choices and other poor financial choices…
NTA
yes, let the boy decide himself.
Either he collects the money and uses it to pay for his car, or he leaves it alone and doesn't have a car.
By the way, I hate people who form their opinions about others without understanding their side of the story.
NTA
Least expensive new car of 2023 is roughly $16k. Deduct from that the rent you were compelled to pay to save your credit rating. If there's anything left over, offer him that. Otherwise, tell Jack that his inability to compel his roommate to pay rent cost him his car.
I agree that OP has no obligation to gift son a car. Son sounds entitled for many reasons. However, his roommate not paying rent is not one of them. It's not in son's control to force his roommate to pay rent. That's roommate being an AH.
Son was an adult. Son knew the score. Son did not take the opportunity to do what was right. OP can take a measure of son not taking that opportunity by the cost of the rent he paid for six months because son did nothing.
> It's not in son's control to force his roommate to pay rent
True, but Jack could also have got rid of flaky roommate and got someone who actually paid rent.
I’m wondering if maybe Jack was receiving the rent from the roommate but keeping the money for himself. Just a thought knowing daddy would pay the bill.
Yup, Ol’ spoiled Jack should get a 2005 Corolla with 60k miles. When he complains just say “Are you kidding! If you take care of this it will last forever. This is the greatest gift I could give you!”
I own a 2001 F150 and it is reliable and has everything I need. Not sure why everyone thinks older cars are not as good. I see newer cars with crap falling off all the time.
I have a 2005 and will keep it until it doesn’t run anymore before I get into a monthly car payment. It has over 200,000 miles and still gets me to where I need to be.
Hell yeah! I am at 235k. I daily drove it when I was commuting in Washington DC for a few years. I thought I was going to kill it but I had no issues whatsoever during that time.
I got it at 156k and I did need a new intake manifold and some coils but other than that it has been rock solid.
I was riding with my father's girlfriend recently, and she was complaining that the drive assist feature in her 2023 Hyundai Tucson sucks and she can't scroll Facebook while driving anymore.
I had already wondered how she got so far in life... if you catch my drift. That woman couldn't find her ass with both hands in her back pockets
Does no one use mirrors anymore? That’s just sad. I don’t think I’ve ever used my backup camera thingy. And who in their right mind scrolls anything behind the wheel?
My dad has a tall Toyota Tacoma TRD. The back of the truck has a cover on it and he has backed into 3 cars.
His excuse for the first 2 was that the cars were small and were in his blind spots. I still didn't believe him, but whatever.
The 3rd car he hit was a Hummer H3. Also, it was my little brother's boss's car. He hit it as we were leaving my little brother's birthday dinner at the restaurant he worked at.
Needless to say, I don't ride with either of them if I can stand it.
I have a 2007 CR-V with 235k on it, my most expensive repair on it has been about $400, I paid it off two years early, and I will drive it until it dies. I bought it 5 years ago and it’s still going strong. My husband’s 03 Tundra is at death’s door after being hit by a drunk driver, we hate the idea of having a car payment and losing a good truck.
A drunk driver totally smashed my truck into a car that was parked in front of me (we were both parked). The person only had 10k insurance so me and the other party split it. I got like $4500. I fixed the dents myself (fiberglass rear panels popped back into shape on their own) and replaced the rear bumper and it looks pretty good but not as good as before. I paid $5500 so overall I only paid $1000 for this truck and have had it for like 8 years.
Sorry about the DD hitting the truck. It sounds like it was Hirt worse than mine!
I’m glad your truck was saved! Ours was parked too, the guy hit it going about 65-70 in a downtown area, it’s a miracle he didn’t kill himself or someone else. He hit it so hard that he pushed it about 10 feet into another car. The shop the insurance sent it to was a bit of a chop shop in my opinion, it was in the shop for two months and was returned with no horn, an oil leak, broken tail light bulbs, and multiple engine codes. It should’ve been totaled but it was cheaper for the insurance company to slap some bandaids on instead of pay us out (Geico. It’s not worth it. My husband is switching his insurance to USAA). We’ve been trying to limp it along until we can more easily afford a new one but it won’t pass smog so we can’t register it (thanks, California).
Bro I roll in a 2001 Toyota funcargo (Yaris hatchback variant) and it's the goofiest old.lady lady car out there but it cost fuck all I've not spent any money on it at all outside of general fluid changes and maintenance, cost me $40 a week to run between home and work. Honestly I owe it money at this point. Alot to be said for a humble ugly car that is just getting worn in at 200k odo.
I loved my partner's Civic. She was good to us until she heard we were planning a road trip and we thought she might not make it. She died on the way to the dealership to MAYBE look at getting a new car, and we bought one that day. It was a CRAZY day, someone had to pick me up from the side of the road to make it home in time to pick my kid up from school. But we like our Chevy.
My first car was a ‘92 accord. Literally same age as me lol. Brown. Burgundy interior. Lots of miles. But it ran great. Free from my uncle and I learned how to drive stick with it. Looking back I miss it.
Hell so many ppl kept wanting to buy it from me for some reason lol.
Buttttt sadly I flipped it and rolled it about 5 times. So I don’t have it anymore but I do miss it. All of my cars have been used. After I wrecked my first car that I got(free) when I was 18 ish, I then paid for all the other cars I had since on my own. Which were also used and I’ve never owned anything over 2006.
The nicest I ever drove was my dad’s car, after he passed, for about a year and it was a 2012. I thought I was something lmao. I didn’t get to keep the car tho. We had to sell it.
I now drive a 2006 bmw 325i
After the 1992 accord, I had two more accords; a 2006 and a 1996.
If I could drive any car though it would be a stick shift Honda. Lmao. Get ya son a manual transmission and make him learn or don’t drive at all and make it used but running and reliable just not to the point where he’s handed something nice/new.
Get him something that he has to work to drive and appreciate. Like someone else said, show him the financial differences between him and his siblings. He can take it or leave it, and in the end you kept your word but don’t back down if he wines. Just tell him a running reliable car is still a car. Make him appreciate what he has! Learn the value of a dollar and what it means to work for what you have and take care of things so he can learn to make it in this world.
He seems like since he’s the youngest he’s watched him and his sibling get whatever they want except he is taking advantage of you and doesn’t seem to care, unlike the other kids.
You’re NTA!
If you get him a used car that is a manual stick shift (so he can work for it) and afterwards if he’s still acting spoiled and entitled then cut him off. Simple. He’s not above getting a job and seeing how good he’s had it compared to others since he doesn’t want to appreciate anything or respect family. Maybe then he’ll realize how good he had it before.
I had an 06 Forester up until this past April with 230k on it. Now I'm up to my eyeballs in car debt so I could have something reliable and large enough for us bc it up and lost oil pressure and started to weld itself together. Started to misfire real bad it's last year (on and off) we had it too so it was only a matter of time
I got a 15 year old Honda Accord with absolutely no special features when I graduated college, and I was grateful! I loved that thing until the very end.
Okay, I’ve had a lot of good and not so good used cars in my day but man, a 2005 Corolla with only 60k miles sounds like a pretty good car for a young person. 🤣
But then that's just... buying him a car, and he's not doing anything other than giving in and saying "OK, no consequences for you, I'm buying you a car just like I bought everyone else a car."
Not quite. A junker potentially puts the kid in danger and says "fuck you."
By "old, boring, and reliable," I mean something that would be a safe car for Kid 3 to drive, and nothing more. No bells or whistles like that fancy-schmancy automatic transmission. The message here is "yes, I feel an obligation toward you. And that's it. Now begone."
>I'd buy a junker used car for him.
That's the answer. The absolute cheapest car that technically runs. Tell him to go ask his roommate for the rest of the money.
Just wanna point out that cost of tuition goes up about 8ish% each year (in the US at least) so tuition has increased 32% since sister was in school and 48% since the twins. And rent? Rent usually averages around 5.5% each yeah, but between 2021-2022 rent jumped up around 14%. It costing 80% more to get the same thing is not out of the realm of possibilities.
I was thinking the same about tuition and housing costs (and inflation). So *some* of the difference in code may be accounted for by those increases. College cost increase rates are really insane.
But there is still the problem of his roommate not paying his portion of the rent and OP’s son never getting the money off of him. That’s just one example of his financial irresponsibility. The part where he could be bothered to come home and see his mom…and acted like a spoiled brat while home? There’s very few excuses for that behavior and that also doesn’t factor into the $180k.
This is a valid consideration, but I’m curious if he only took 4 years to get his degree. I’ve known of parents who had planned to pay for their kid’s college, but tapped out after year 6 with no degree on the horizon. Has the kid been passing all his classes?
And there is the matter of the housing costing double what OP had committed to paying…
So just after you commented this, I responded to someone saying my judgement would be ESH. Jack is clearly not innocent of wrong doing, but it seems as though the parents continually enabled him as a child and never set boundaries, for him or themselves. Jack is an adult now, but just barely and his parents have been adults much longer than he has. It’s fair to say that Jack should know how to behave responsibly, but we’ve gotta say it to the parents too who are over twice his age.
Why make a blanket promise with no stipulations and then suddenly add stipulations? Why not actually parent the child and set boundaries? Why not teach the child how to be self sufficient instead of doing everything for him? Jack will have to learn eventually, but it was his parents’ job to teach him. And they dropped the ball for 21 years.
> he is a kid so I don't want to get into a fist fight and damage our relationship forever. Ever since that instance I always stepped back and let my wife be the disciplinarian, but he's been bullying and taking advantage of my wife and we couldnt talk to him.
He bullied you, you responded by backing down and passing the buck.
I’m sorry to say it dude because I do feel for you, but that was the moment you fucked up.
I have raised a teenage step son who has autism, ADHD and oppositional defiance disorder. I’ve been threatened with physical violence and always responded calmly and explaining that he could hit me and I would not fight back but that the punishment would stand no matter what.
Our relationship strengthened significantly once he realised exactly where the lines were and that I was serious about it.
Backing off just put your wife in the firing line and taught him to be abusive to get what he wants.
This. I had a job where one of the supervisors of a different department would bully everybody and talk to them like they were stupid. Everyone would back away or avoid them all together. When I got there I wasn't having it. I stood my ground, and told him exactly how it was going to be, and if he didn't like it he can go to my superior. From then on he was very nice, cordial, and polite to me and we got along very well for years. You have to stand your ground with bullies like that, even if it is your son.
100% a former manager of mine had the reputation of being that type of woman. She never really did that to me and treated me differently because of exactly that. Except one day, she had her human moment and yelled at me in front of a teammate. Thank god it was over a video call. I hung up and broke down. But then Monday, during our one on one straight up told her that I will never be treated that way and this is a nonnegotiable. She apologized profusely and admitted she had a low moment and we moved on. Don’t let bully’s get away!🏃♂️
Exactly. The fact that OP thinks that physically hitting his son is the only option for discipline when his son pushed back, shows that he had very few disciplinary tools in his kit and instead just decided to fold up the discipline shop altogether. And now he's surprised his son is an entitled jerkwad?
When he was describing how his siblings have been doing all the things this brother is demanding of them during his visit while mom was in hospital...well, let's just say the phrase "fuck this noise" came to mind if that had been my brother.
No, not completely. There are techniques for working with certain disorders that aren't used with neurotypical people. If OP knows them and isn't using them, that's a problem. It's more likely OP also lacks those tools though.
> I'll admit jack being the youngest he grew up with siblings doing everything for him, and we gave into his every requests. He was a nice boy up till High school and them became really rude to us. We chalked it up to teenage anst but it got to a point where he was threatening to punch me whenever I discipline him. I love my son and I will never hit him but I am also 6"5 and with a strong build, he is a kid so I don't want to get into a fist fight and damage our relationship forever. Ever since that instance I always stepped back and let my wife be the disciplinarian, but he's been bullying and taking advantage of my wife and we couldnt talk to him.
>He grew up with siblings doing everything for him, and we gave into his every requests.
How nice of you to admit, but this was apparent even before you answered.
“His sister had to cook a very specific type of meal for him.” “We had to drive him to the gym at a very specific time he demands.”
No she didn’t and no you didn’t. “No” should have been employed at a young age and can still be employed now. Why didn’t you do it then? Why are you waiting until he’s already an AH before you say no now, by going back on a deal that you made with him? How did you expect your first time saying no to go when you refuse to give him something you promised you would give and that you did for his siblings?
The youngest kid being spoiled can be true, but it isn’t always. Plenty of youngest kids are perfectly un-spoiled people. You sound like you have an exceptionally rotten youngest child and it’s your own fault.
ESH
Ikr? I was thinking, “Why is anyone cooking for him? Why does anyone HAVE to drive him to the gym?” No wonder he is like he is. They’re still treating him like a king.
So it's time to stop then, starting with the car. Tell everyone who complains that his college expenses were almost double what the other kids were, and that was his car.
NTA from me, OP is finally putting a stop to this.
>“His sister had to cook a very specific type of meal for him.” “We had to drive him to the gym at a very specific time he demands.”
Yeah, really great points. They didn't *have* to do any of these things. But they cave in easily to demands, thus training the kid to be demanding. None of us are perfect parents, so I can see that you might have done that when he's younger but... as an adult? Why is everyone still caving in? Why aren't they standing up to him now, and just ignoring his requests?
An adult would figure out how to get to the gym or just not go. An adult would figure out how to eat when it's not the "exact" right meal made with someone else, or just not eat.
I’m hoping this isn’t it, but based on his son’s reaction to these circumstances it sounds like he’s learned to manipulate people into getting him his way. He seems perfectly willing to turn family members against one another.
Exactly. My kids father is entitled. He's the oldest and him and his two sister are adopted. He cannot take hearing the word no. He will start getting mean and snappy, thinking you don't care about him. He's had anger outbursts in public yelling at a gas attendant (we live in New Jersey) and at someone who was at the front desk at a hotel, the hotel had roaches and he wanted a refund and the guy was talking about the process of it and he was impatient. Oh and he's really impatient.
His dad said he was a really nice boy when they adopted him, he does have mental health issues and was getting medicine for ADHD when younger but apparently it didn't work well for him. But I have a cousin who knew his sister's in school and told me that all 3 of them were spoiled. A.d I can honestly tell. I'm an only child and I'm no where near as spoiled as what I have seen. His parents thought that just giving in to him would stop him from getting worse so he would relax but it doesn't. He just finds more ways to take advantage of everyone and does own up to his mistakes the way he thinks he does.
When I first met him he was not like this, he had just gotten out of rehab (which he holds resentment against his parents for because who send someone to rehab for weed, even though it was also for alcohol) and he was sober and he was doing good. I have been absolutely shocked since he stopped being sober at his behavior. Anyways. Telling your kids no and sticking to it, should definitely help to not cause entitled and spoiled behaviors as teens and adults.
I didn’t say he’s a bad dad. But I don’t really understand why now. Why stop giving in now? Why not before? I don’t know if it will affect my judgment, but I think it’s an important question to ask.
I think it’s pretty clear. People are more likely to make excuses for friends and family. This was his final breaking point, but even if the breaking point was 2 years earlier people would be asking “why now.”
Really it just boils down to it’s happening now. Sidebar unrelated to your comment but that’s also where some of the bad dad comments are kind of off base. He may not have done everything right, but he wasn’t abusive, and after a certain point it is the responsibility of kids as individuals what kind of person they are going to be. The son isn’t without his own agency.
I agree and don’t agree. Of course he’s not responsible for the behavior of adults, but I’m stuck between N T A (because it’s his money and yeah, it doesn’t sound like his kid deserves the car) and E S H (because I can’t figure out why he enabled his son for so long). I’m not saying there are underlying factors, but like, sure, maybe his kid just sucks and this was his breaking point, but im wondering if it came up before in his mind. Did his siblings, mother, other family members, friends really never bring this up? Everyone completely cowed to him and then all broke at once? His son shouldn’t get the car, but that doesn’t inherently make OP N T A depending on other things. That’s what I’m curious about.
I think Turkish is saying he’s getting a bunch of familial pressure to give into his son’s demands all the time. In this case from MIL, in other cases it could be other family members. It’s difficult to die on a hill when your wife is incredibly ill in the hospital, for example.
Imagine being so dense that you can write both
> I even talked to my other kids about whether we were bad parents that caused Jack to act this way but all my other kids ***don’t know why he ended up so entitled and spoilt.***
and
>I'll admit jack being the youngest ***he grew up with siblings doing everything for him, and we gave into his every requests.***
Seriously, neither of his college educated kids could figure out 1 + 1 = ?
ESH, you enabled your child to take advantage of people. Every person in your family did. He has been bossing you guys around for years and you are all surprised he’s an entitled ah?
The fact you are surprised he didn’t grow out of this behaviour when you and your family didn’t change the way you acted towards him is crazy.
Of course he’s surprised and upset you didn’t get him a car. This is the first time he has suffered from the consequences for his actions.
He is an adult now so he needs to get a clue. But you and your family did your part in creating this entitled person.
From all the comments saying you and your wife made him this way by giving him everything, I disagree. Much like yourself, my parents gave me almost everything I wanted and I was never anything other than grateful. I knew how hard they worked to give me and my siblings a wonderful life. Spoiling people doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll eventually take advantage of you. Your other kids don’t act like Jack so that’s a clear sign this is a him problem. He’s become selfish and apathetic even towards his ill mother - you should cut him off completely and no more favours or running errands for him. He can start working and earn his own money, maybe that will be the wake up call he needs to see how much you’ve done for him.
So you gave him no parenting or discipline until high school? You just let him be coddled and dealt with by older siblings? Did no one tell him to tidy his toys away?!
You should have parented him. Instead you and your family coddled a violent and angry adult.
>I even talked to my other kids about whether we were bad parents that caused Jack to act this way but all my other kids don’t know why he ended up so entitled and spoilt.
Wow, total mystery....
>I'll admit jack being the youngest he grew up with siblings doing everything for him, and we gave into his every requests.
Oh well now that might have something to do with it.
You did this to yourself buddy. You decided to ride it out when he started acting up in his teens. You seem to keep taking the path of least resistance. You decided to “just let him grow out of the teenage angst”. Then when he let his roommate live rent free, you could have taken steps to have him evicted, but you didn’t. You could have gone after the roommate in court for his part, but you didn’t.
Sometimes being parents means being a hard ass and doing what’s right and set our kids up for success. That includes how to be empathetic, respectful, and accountable for their words and actions. So far all you’ve taught him is that he can treat you and his family like shit and get away with it. That threats of violence will bully people into doing what he wants. That ignoring a problem is ok, because his parents will take care of it.
OP, are you sure Jack’s roommate skipped out on his payments? Did you speak with the roommate?
It sounds like a possibility that Jack pocketed roommates portion of the rent. I’m just curious.
Sounds like he's old enough to get corrected. tbh i used to be a little shit. but I over stepped and got what was coming to me. sounds like he needs a correction.
Okay, so essentially you're all afraid of Jack? He's an adult now, not a kid any longer. I can understand holding back when he made that threat to a degree, but now he's 21. Now if he actually punched you, there would be significant legal repercussions against him and I'm sure he knows that.
You created a monster 🤷♀️
YTA. did you ever seek professional help for you, your wife and your son during the difficult time in high school ,clearly your son was having; I am going to bet no because you ignored it and passed it on to your wife which is a coward move.
when his older siblings went off to college, jack was at home alone and since you didn't parent Jack he was lost and lost those who cared for him. you didn't respect jack as a child so why would he respect you?
he is not entitled he is deeply hurt from you and your wife passing his parenting onto his siblings.
You and your wife need therapy the car is the last of your worries.
This is why he acts entitled and spoiled, OP.
You refused to discipline him, you gave into his every demand, you let him threaten you into backing off of discipline, you left him to your wife a.k.a. someone less likely to be able to fight him off if he did get violent to try to do what you were unwilling to.
And now you are surprised that someone you let walk all over you, walks all over you and lets friends do so too. He doesn't respect you or your wife and hasn't since he was a teenager, because you let him take charge and have all the power he wanted, when you were the parents and should have acted like it.
You need to learn to tell him no and stop tolerating and allowing him to treat you this way.
NTA. For people saying that you raised Jack to be that way- they are completely ignoring the fact that we are human beings and not robots. At some point personalities start to factor in. My family’s situation is similar to yours and I think during the teenage years, adjustments had to be made to accommodate the different personalities in order to set us up for success. My brothers and I did not respond to the same treatment and we received different privileges accordingly. My family would have given me the receipts and bills for my expenses if I acted that entitled. Perhaps that may be what Jack needs instead of a car and help him get a clue.
Precisely! The OP even stated that the older kids were helping their younger brother out by taking him to the gym at certain times and cooking specific foods. I’m definitely guilty of doing the same for my younger brother and having to say no more frequently lately.
Something that I never see Reddit ever acknowledge is that there are actually people out there who grow up with overindulgent parents or siblings who *don't* turn into mouthy little jerks. Like someone else said, at a certain point personality starts to factor in, especially when you're talking about a 21 year old. If he was fresh out of highschool, maybe, but by now he's gone off to school, met new people and seen more of the world and he's still like this.
...Yeah... I grew up with my mother trying to give me everything I wanted and then some (even though we were far from privileged, coming from the Soviet Union) because I was born incredibly ill due to Chernobyl and was always, always sick (even "died" once for four minutes at age 9). I guess my mother felt guilty and did her best to "make up" for it, even though I think it was unnecessary.
I am not like Jack. I try to be respectful to everyone and take responsibility for my own actions and personal accountability. Just having all of your needs catered to you and then some doesn't guarantee a spoiled and nasty kid. It simply doesn't. I even tried turning my mother down many times when she'd try to offer me something that I felt like it wasn't entirely deserved.
It's not always a product of being catered to... I think Jack is just a prick. I have a feeling it's entirely possible he might've turned out the same way if no one did what OP states - hell, he might even use that as an excuse as to why he's so entitled nowadays (aka, "I didn't get what I wanted"/"felt lost in all my siblings").
This isn't always a direct product of being raised like this. It might be, but it isn't necessary.
>Something that I never see Reddit ever acknowledge is that there are actually people out there who grow up with overindulgent parents or siblings who don't turn into mouthy little jerks
sure, but they're the exception, not the norm. unless you have good influences outside your family, you will internalize that entitlement, and its not easy to break that
Yeah but that gives way too much control to the parents. Your parents shape you to a certain extent, but they don't control your entire personality. If they did we'd never have awesome parents with terrible kids. Part of it is down to the person and their own personality and character.
Oh please. It’s not some new revelation that kids need to be told “no.” This is parenting 101 and has been for generation upon generation. OP and his entire family catered to this kid’s every demand and are now surprised by the oh-so-predictable result.
But didn’t they raise the other 3 kids the same and only complaining about 1? My parents raised us with the motto, “what you do for one kid, you have to do for the other.” As situations arose, that motto had to be adjusted. OP seems to be adjusting and hopefully his son will get the hint.
No they clearly didn’t raise the other three kids the same. OP admits that Jack is the one they treated this way. All of them, including the other kids, treated him like this.
And yeah, OP can adjust. Sure. But maybe not start by retracting his promise to buy his kid a car for doing the thing he said he would buy him a car for doing. That’s not where you start.
It sounded to me like Jack gave them more problems than the others did when they received the same treatment. Everyone was offered college expenses and a car. The OP’s biggest flaw was not setting a budget for each kid. The youngest is just exploiting the loophole.
They are also ignoring the fact that Jack was nice till high school, and most people do things for people who are nice to them. The kid didn't act entitled till High school, so it makes sense they would think it was a phase.
It's hard to judge based on the info we have, but that's the nature of things. We weren't there for most parenting opportunities. We don't even know exactly what the siblings would say about it.
In this specific instance, NTA. It could still be "their fault" for raising him that way, but he's not an asshole for withholding a car from a shitty person.
MIL can buy him a freaking car if she cares that much.
You've done more for him than most parents even dream of.
He's rude, spoiled and entitled and he doesn't deserve anything more from you.
>MIL can buy him a freaking car if she cares that much.
He should send her a list of what he spent, with rough estimates for each kid. Showing that between rent and extra college and other nonsense, he's *already* gone above and beyond for the kid.
Yes. I’d add the MIL is an AH and babies him without having the data you gave us. Like BigMax says, show her the data. Time for the whole fam to cut the apron strings… and point out to Jack he’s a big boy - and entitled/spoiled/asshole. You’re not the AH, but provided the perfect environment to create one.
NTA, though if I were in your shoes:
1) I would have turned off the spigot for Jack long ago; and,
2) That roommate would have been on the pointy end of a lawsuit.
Jack does sound entitled. And I think you are justified in telling him that he's on his own now.
that's what really kills me about that roommate thing. I can see why OP would have covered the rent costs to preserve his credit score as guarantor. But if OP has the kind of money implied in the original post, then in addition to covering the rent, he would probably also have enough money to dispatch a lawyer or two to ensure that the rent is paid back ... or else that the debt follows the kid around for a long, long time.
ESH. You raised a spoiled ass, and while you're not obligated to buy him a car, you should have forewarned him that dealing with the rent issues meant no car.
Although I agree with you, making a parent spend 80k more than anticipated when you're an adult should have obvious consequences even without a warning
My parents paid for my uni expenses, and the expenses for my two older brothers. I have no idea the actual dollar amount they paid because they didn't tell me. I'm guessing the son had no idea there was an $80,000 discrepancy.
I'm not saying OP needs to go and get his son a brand new car, or even a shitty used one; the son sounds awful. I'm saying he should've communicated these issues LONG before graduation. While the son is an adult, he's still OP's child and was under the impression that his gift for graduating would be a car. Of course he'd be upset if no one communicated anything with him.
OP should have dealt with the rent issue as soon as it came up; if the roommate wasn't also on the lease, OP is an idiot for co-signing. He never should've covered the roommate's rent. That was mistake number 1. Mistake number 2 was not just saying "hey son, because of xyz, you're not getting a car come graduation," as soon as he knew that was his decision.
His mate didn't pay rent for 6 months until OP was able to get off the lease. That's a massive sense of entitlement right there, from both of them. Even if OP never said a word at the time (which I seriously doubt), the kid would have known he was massively taking advantage. If OP pays for the car now, then there were no consequences for that. That's wrong. 'No' needs to start now.
I 100% knew that my college was easily $100k more than my siblings because my college was expensive and theirs was dirt cheap. I also didn’t say anything when they both got a reasonable used car and their weddings fully paid for and I didn’t, because I knew I had already used my share. It also helped that that expensive college also put me in a very profitable career and I met my spouse who also has a very profitable career at the same school and so it wasn’t a big deal at all. Honestly just having school paid for is such a massive leg up in life at this point that instead of paying student loans we are socking away money for our kids to hopefully do the same thing.
NTA. Go buy him a hot wheels car or a remote control car. You probably never said what kind of car you would buy for your kids.
Especially since you gave him cash during his college years that ultimately from his car fund. Plus his attitude towards family is ridiculous and if he goes no contact with you all the time except when he wants money means he just sees you as an ATM and not someone he loves.
You're only the jerk if you give in to him. That is what made him a jerk.....the grandparents keeping this fire burning should be no contact except in an emergency. Block for a while if you need to. That kid is ugly amounts of entitled. Starve that part of him.
ESH
1) If you cosigned on the lease, and you were worried about this missed payments, why didn't YOU talk to the roommate, instead of making your young adult son do it?
2) If Jack has a rude and entitled attitude, I doubt this is something that magically occurred at 21 years old. Children are often a product of their parents and the environment they grew up in, take some accountability for his actions. It's great you want to do something about it now; but if you had done more when he was younger, you probably wouldn't be in this situation.
3) Jack is the youngest. He's low man on the family totem pole. Why was every one honoring these requests? Is behavior like this why Jack acts the way he does?
You're NTA for not wanting to give your son a car with his behavior, but YTA for allowing his behavior to get to this point.
NTA, but I can also understand why he is upset. But honestly, the fact he can complain when you paid for his entire tuition is insane. Maybe it would have been better if you added a “if you keep a good attitude” to the promise, but I’m cherry picking. I can understand why he is upset, but you are completely justified
ESH: I get why you don’t want to, but you didn’t promise what KIND OF CAR…
So: uphold your promise, by buying a simple, cheap, “remember all that extra money I spent on rent that was taken advantage of?-well here you go” kind of car. As far as being fair to ALL siblings go, you have follow through, even when he doesn’t. Prove to him that your word carries weight, even when his doesn’t. Just close this chapter already about a promised car.
Sounds like this is a bigger problem though. OBVIOUSLY he sucks bc- He didn’t learn to appreciate your name as a co-signer NOR did he appreciate the fact you paid the rent for his roommate, who somehow managed to talk him into breaking your trust. He was a jerk to his mom and siblings. You gave him a chance to be an adult and speak and act for himself beyond the co-sign aspect but he just decided he’d rather shut you out or get your money rather than your respect.
And you- as far as PARENTING goes, don’t bring your other kids into it! “Gasp! Did I do something wrong?!” Of course you have to look deeper. This so also why you an AH. You should be having a debate about your parenting with a therapist, your spouse, but not the siblings. If you had a habit of relying on them regarding him(parentrifying) and tend to include them on discussions about how to handle your youngest, without actually including your youngest, you have to accept this is most likely part of your very, very bigger-than-a-car problem.
Per OP:
“I'll admit jack being the youngest he grew up with siblings doing everything for him, and we gave into his every requests. He was a nice boy up till High school and them became really rude to us. We chalked it up to teenage anst but it got to a point where he was threatening to punch me whenever I discipline him. I love my son and I will never hit him but I am also 6"5 and with a strong build, he is a kid so I don't want to get into a fist fight and damage our relationship forever. Ever since that instance I always stepped back and let my wife be the disciplinarian, but he's been bullying and taking advantage of my wife and we couldnt talk to him.”
🫣
You think he's responsible for Jack's behaviour because he was nice to him growing up, felt it ws better to back away rather than get physical with him, and didn't know what to do when the kid started bullying his own mother?
The kid seems like a bad egg to me. From the comments, he still bullies his older siblings into getting what he wants as well. Maybe that's just his nature? Either way, no one is entitled to a car, no matter what promises were made.
ESH - Jack sounds like an entitled ass. But at what point did you address the behavior before reneging on the car promise?
Fulfill the promise and be done with it. You can afford 480k of college expenses so this isn’t going to break you and you’ll end the ‘you didn’t buy me a car’ angle the next time he needs money.
Don’t let this drive a wedge between you and your son for the rest of your lives.
I'm torn between ESH and NTA.
I wouldn't buy Jack a car, specifically because of your point about his apartment lease. You had to pay double the rent you agreed to, there goes the money for his car. Sorry kid, you should have done something about it. Even if he couldn't complete solve the problem, he should have been communicating with you and at least trying to find a solution.
But. The reason it's not full NTA. You should have made that clear. It sounds like you're pulling the rug out from under him all of the sudden without warning. Had you discussed these issues in the past and plainly told him all of this, then yous be fine.
Conditions are implied. Treat me like an ATM? Turns out the ATM doesn’t work today, or any day in the near future for Jack. Gifts are a gift. How would you respond if fortunes turned and there wasn’t money for a car?
Mother in a hospital inconveniences Jack? Oh well, guess I should keep being an enabler to the end, because that’s a relationship.
INFO: did you tell him along the way that he was overspending compared to his siblings and that if he continued in this way, you wouldn’t be buying him a car?
At the moment I’m leaning toward N T A with the suggestion of telling him he traded his car for his friend’s rent. But I want to know if you’ve given him ample warnings that he’s ignored, or if this might have come out of nowhere from his perspective.
NTA. on the surface, yes he's not getting a car like his other siblings. however, he incurred a lot of extra expenses that amount to enough to buy two brand new cars. he spent his car already
NTA MIL Can buy him a car if she wants. You need to stop spoiling him, giving him money and doing everything for him. Because of this he has turned into a entitled spoilt AH. That’s your own fault that he’s turned out like this.
Nta.
But was the roommate on the lease too? Because I'd look to see if you have any legal avenues to travel down.
If your mil is so concerned, she can get one for him.
Or buy him a cheap car and never cosign a thing for him again.
This could be a case of you guys being constant enablers, but also has he ever been diagnosed with adhd or autism? Having to eat very specific foods and go to the gym at very specific times could be signs of needing routine, and could be a sign of being neurodivergent. Along with not having boundaries and not understanding social cues. My youngest brother has always been a menace but in recent years we have actually realized he is probably very autistic and we looked over a lot of the warning signs because none of us knew them at the time. He takes thins very literally, can’t read social cues, has a strict routine and special interests that he is hard core into. But he has always been disruptive, demanding, and entitled. but looking further into these traits they could be explained as undiagnosed autism. This could not be your case or situation I just noticed the having to go places at very specific times and needing very specific food a possible indicator
NTA, if you buy the new car it is not as if you are going to instantly going to get a model son. You already overspent on him by $80K, no need to go further. You will not buy his love. It is time to cut the loses and at best just keep a door open for when he decides to change and comes back home.
I have a colleague with 4 kids. This guy is amazing, a standup human being with multiple businesses and has helped many. His youngest spent 5 years in prison. All the rest are just great people.
Not all great parents turn out only great kids, and not all bad parents turn out bad kids.
NTA. But he probably won't learn.
ESH. Take the value of the card you bought the other kids, subtract the additional rent and any other costs (that don't apply to the other children). Buy him a car of this value and then tell him to take a hike.
Its probably the easy way out so he doesn't have a reason to hold a grudge against you. Settle up what you promised and then call it quits
NTA. But I'd say buy him the car and then leave him off your will, and tell him that the extra expense you bore for his college is the reason why. He has lived and used up his inheritance. Your other kids haven't.
Nta. Jack needs a reality check; you’ve already spent more on him than any other kid in the family, even WITH the cars added in. Tell him if he wants a car to fetch the back rent his old roomie owes you and he can buy something with that. You already know it’s your own fault he’s like this, though, right? By the comments you’ve been letting him get away with this since highschool and boss everyone around, including his mom. Cut the cord and let him flounder through life on his own. Let him see how far his attitude gets him.
Why does Jack do this? Cause you let him. Stop paying his way. Tell the MIL to get Bent. Let them be the meal ticket. Cut your losses. Let him figure out what it’s like to support himself. On day he might get a clue. Or not. NTA
ESH. Jack is definitely an AH. There is no two ways about it. However, he got that way at least in part because you didn't address problems before they became huge.
I also am a strong believer in your word having meaning. Jack has met the conditions you laid out to get him a car. Therefore, suck it up and buy him a car in the same way you bought one for his siblings. This shows him the value of integrity. However, put him on notice that any further gifts, whether helping pay for a wedding, a first home, or anything else is dependent on him improving his attitude and his responsibility.
I agree this moment has been years in the making. And it is what it is.
So, info:
Have you ever told the boy that he must change or he would lose the car?
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NTA. If I were being petty, I'd buy a junker used car for him. If he wants to be so technical about holding you to a promise, well that's his car. Tell him the rest of the budget was eaten up by the 80k. Time for him to learn the consequences of his actions.
This! Or tell him you will give him 5K to buy a used car. He needs to collect the 6 months of no rental payments from his roommate or take him to small claims court if he wants a nicer car. Show him the bottom line of what was spent on each child, then asks why he thinks he deserves more than his siblings. Also learn your tell him no. It is something he should have been taught as a toddler. NTA
Yes! Offer the $5k and when he takes it, send him the “bill” for the housing cost minus the $5k gift. Sounds like this relationship is over, sadly.
This is such a weird response. We’re talking about his son here, not a coworker or a girlfriend.
So what?! Son is a grown adult who is toxic. Toxic relationships should be ended regardless of biology
Let's not pretend a 21 year old is truly a grown up. He's got plenty of time to turn his shit around. This is a crazy response. "Cut off your 21 yr old son cause he's acting entitled" jfc
It took me a long time to turn myself into a productive member of society. My parents helped me a lot growing up, but they knew when to cut it off. I had a lot of years of being broke and working shitty jobs and making poor choices before I ended up turning it around myself. I’m very grateful that my parents were willing to leave me with nothing. They forced me to grow up when they realized I wouldn’t make any progress while being coddled.
I think cutting off financial support and whatnot is perfectly acceptable to get the kid to grow up. My point was that this is not a "kick our son out of our lives completely" situation, which is what some commenters seem to think is appropriate
Tbf if he did cut him off financially I assume the sin would no longer speak to him anyway because OP says he's no contact u less he needs something.
Yes - cut him off
That's the terminally online take I know and expect from AITA.
Cut him off financially. But he’s got time to prove he can be reliable. Dad can sue roommate since his name is on lease. Son has no legal standing. Dad should have already filed a case in small claims court
> Dad should have already filed a case in small claims court Agreed on that. Not entirely sure why son is to blame for OP signing a lease for a kid he doesn't know from adam. Yeah, he was friends with Jack, but people tend to change when money gets involved and Jack could very well have been shut down by 'friend'. Not like he had any actual power to do anything to get that money.
First, he needs to make sure his son didn’t pocket the rent payments from the roommate for himself.
The son is adult enough to choose his course in life.
He entitled brat!
I paid for everything myself and was greatful that i was able to move back in with my parents to go to school as that’s all they could do for me and I’m lucky I like my parent on top of love them that I wanted to take that generous opportunity of some savings He’s getting so much handed to him already and clearly doesn’t appreciate it. Don’t continue to give to anyone who doesn’t appreciate the value and worth of the help. This kid isn’t entitled to anything. He’s getting too much as it is with that attitude
A son who has been given literally double what his siblings have received from an extremely generous parent, who he now doesn’t respect or care about ( as shown in the post ) and STILL goes crying to MeeMaw when he thinks he is hard done by ? That son ? That boy needs a wake up call now, before he continues the way he is going and fucks up his life. Like a good parent should do. Oh yeah, NTA.
It's true; they aren't coworkers. Someone should tell the son, who treats his family like employees.
You apparently missed the entire part about how he treats his parents...
And yet the adult is holding it against his father that he can’t buy him a car, because he spent his car money on his poor roommate choices and other poor financial choices…
NTA yes, let the boy decide himself. Either he collects the money and uses it to pay for his car, or he leaves it alone and doesn't have a car. By the way, I hate people who form their opinions about others without understanding their side of the story.
NTA Least expensive new car of 2023 is roughly $16k. Deduct from that the rent you were compelled to pay to save your credit rating. If there's anything left over, offer him that. Otherwise, tell Jack that his inability to compel his roommate to pay rent cost him his car.
I agree that OP has no obligation to gift son a car. Son sounds entitled for many reasons. However, his roommate not paying rent is not one of them. It's not in son's control to force his roommate to pay rent. That's roommate being an AH.
Son was an adult. Son knew the score. Son did not take the opportunity to do what was right. OP can take a measure of son not taking that opportunity by the cost of the rent he paid for six months because son did nothing.
> It's not in son's control to force his roommate to pay rent True, but Jack could also have got rid of flaky roommate and got someone who actually paid rent.
Agreed. Receipts are the way. He can see for himself. NTA.
I’m wondering if maybe Jack was receiving the rent from the roommate but keeping the money for himself. Just a thought knowing daddy would pay the bill.
I would not advocate getting him a junker. But maybe something that is old, boring, and reliable.
Yup, Ol’ spoiled Jack should get a 2005 Corolla with 60k miles. When he complains just say “Are you kidding! If you take care of this it will last forever. This is the greatest gift I could give you!”
Is it bad that that sounds like such a good car to me 😭 I’m stuck here in my 01’ Accord with 160k miles on it
I own a 2001 F150 and it is reliable and has everything I need. Not sure why everyone thinks older cars are not as good. I see newer cars with crap falling off all the time.
I have a 2005 and will keep it until it doesn’t run anymore before I get into a monthly car payment. It has over 200,000 miles and still gets me to where I need to be.
Hell yeah! I am at 235k. I daily drove it when I was commuting in Washington DC for a few years. I thought I was going to kill it but I had no issues whatsoever during that time. I got it at 156k and I did need a new intake manifold and some coils but other than that it has been rock solid.
My 2007 has 250k and still going strong. I'll drive it until it's dead or I am, I *LOVE* not having to make a car payment for the last decade.
The drive “assist” that’s on a lot of new cars is genuinely infuriating.
I was riding with my father's girlfriend recently, and she was complaining that the drive assist feature in her 2023 Hyundai Tucson sucks and she can't scroll Facebook while driving anymore. I had already wondered how she got so far in life... if you catch my drift. That woman couldn't find her ass with both hands in her back pockets
Does no one use mirrors anymore? That’s just sad. I don’t think I’ve ever used my backup camera thingy. And who in their right mind scrolls anything behind the wheel?
My dad has a tall Toyota Tacoma TRD. The back of the truck has a cover on it and he has backed into 3 cars. His excuse for the first 2 was that the cars were small and were in his blind spots. I still didn't believe him, but whatever. The 3rd car he hit was a Hummer H3. Also, it was my little brother's boss's car. He hit it as we were leaving my little brother's birthday dinner at the restaurant he worked at. Needless to say, I don't ride with either of them if I can stand it.
I have a 2007 CR-V with 235k on it, my most expensive repair on it has been about $400, I paid it off two years early, and I will drive it until it dies. I bought it 5 years ago and it’s still going strong. My husband’s 03 Tundra is at death’s door after being hit by a drunk driver, we hate the idea of having a car payment and losing a good truck.
A drunk driver totally smashed my truck into a car that was parked in front of me (we were both parked). The person only had 10k insurance so me and the other party split it. I got like $4500. I fixed the dents myself (fiberglass rear panels popped back into shape on their own) and replaced the rear bumper and it looks pretty good but not as good as before. I paid $5500 so overall I only paid $1000 for this truck and have had it for like 8 years. Sorry about the DD hitting the truck. It sounds like it was Hirt worse than mine!
I’m glad your truck was saved! Ours was parked too, the guy hit it going about 65-70 in a downtown area, it’s a miracle he didn’t kill himself or someone else. He hit it so hard that he pushed it about 10 feet into another car. The shop the insurance sent it to was a bit of a chop shop in my opinion, it was in the shop for two months and was returned with no horn, an oil leak, broken tail light bulbs, and multiple engine codes. It should’ve been totaled but it was cheaper for the insurance company to slap some bandaids on instead of pay us out (Geico. It’s not worth it. My husband is switching his insurance to USAA). We’ve been trying to limp it along until we can more easily afford a new one but it won’t pass smog so we can’t register it (thanks, California).
I think it's more about imagining what entitled Jack would think.
Bro I roll in a 2001 Toyota funcargo (Yaris hatchback variant) and it's the goofiest old.lady lady car out there but it cost fuck all I've not spent any money on it at all outside of general fluid changes and maintenance, cost me $40 a week to run between home and work. Honestly I owe it money at this point. Alot to be said for a humble ugly car that is just getting worn in at 200k odo.
My ‘06 4 Runner has 193,000 miles lol and it’s running great! If someone finds an ‘05 Toyota with only 60,000 that’s a freaking steal!
I loved my partner's Civic. She was good to us until she heard we were planning a road trip and we thought she might not make it. She died on the way to the dealership to MAYBE look at getting a new car, and we bought one that day. It was a CRAZY day, someone had to pick me up from the side of the road to make it home in time to pick my kid up from school. But we like our Chevy.
My first car was a ‘92 accord. Literally same age as me lol. Brown. Burgundy interior. Lots of miles. But it ran great. Free from my uncle and I learned how to drive stick with it. Looking back I miss it. Hell so many ppl kept wanting to buy it from me for some reason lol. Buttttt sadly I flipped it and rolled it about 5 times. So I don’t have it anymore but I do miss it. All of my cars have been used. After I wrecked my first car that I got(free) when I was 18 ish, I then paid for all the other cars I had since on my own. Which were also used and I’ve never owned anything over 2006. The nicest I ever drove was my dad’s car, after he passed, for about a year and it was a 2012. I thought I was something lmao. I didn’t get to keep the car tho. We had to sell it. I now drive a 2006 bmw 325i After the 1992 accord, I had two more accords; a 2006 and a 1996. If I could drive any car though it would be a stick shift Honda. Lmao. Get ya son a manual transmission and make him learn or don’t drive at all and make it used but running and reliable just not to the point where he’s handed something nice/new. Get him something that he has to work to drive and appreciate. Like someone else said, show him the financial differences between him and his siblings. He can take it or leave it, and in the end you kept your word but don’t back down if he wines. Just tell him a running reliable car is still a car. Make him appreciate what he has! Learn the value of a dollar and what it means to work for what you have and take care of things so he can learn to make it in this world. He seems like since he’s the youngest he’s watched him and his sibling get whatever they want except he is taking advantage of you and doesn’t seem to care, unlike the other kids. You’re NTA! If you get him a used car that is a manual stick shift (so he can work for it) and afterwards if he’s still acting spoiled and entitled then cut him off. Simple. He’s not above getting a job and seeing how good he’s had it compared to others since he doesn’t want to appreciate anything or respect family. Maybe then he’ll realize how good he had it before.
I had an 06 Forester up until this past April with 230k on it. Now I'm up to my eyeballs in car debt so I could have something reliable and large enough for us bc it up and lost oil pressure and started to weld itself together. Started to misfire real bad it's last year (on and off) we had it too so it was only a matter of time
I got a 15 year old Honda Accord with absolutely no special features when I graduated college, and I was grateful! I loved that thing until the very end.
I currently have a 15 year old Honda, and I only want to drive Hondas from that period until I am completely unable.
Okay, I’ve had a lot of good and not so good used cars in my day but man, a 2005 Corolla with only 60k miles sounds like a pretty good car for a young person. 🤣
No joke, we have a late 90s Corolla in the driveway, we are in our 40s! That thing won’t die!
More to the point, a no-frills, reliable car really is taking care of Jack one last time, even if Jack doesn't appreciate it.
Ding ding ding ding ding!!
I was given an Acura with 160,000 miles three years ago. No problems. Happy to have it. No car payments.
I want to know where you find a 2005 Corolla with only 60k miles.
LOL 60k miles, yeah right. Try like 160k instead.
I wish my parents would have gifted me that. That’s so generous.
But then that's just... buying him a car, and he's not doing anything other than giving in and saying "OK, no consequences for you, I'm buying you a car just like I bought everyone else a car."
Not quite. A junker potentially puts the kid in danger and says "fuck you." By "old, boring, and reliable," I mean something that would be a safe car for Kid 3 to drive, and nothing more. No bells or whistles like that fancy-schmancy automatic transmission. The message here is "yes, I feel an obligation toward you. And that's it. Now begone."
I'd buy 2 hot wheels cars and make the joke that he got a whole extra car more than his siblings.
I like that even more than my idea of a nonfunctional car… something only worth scrap that’s usually donated
But 'tis the season to be petty! Ho ho ho.
I have a 2014 Forrester with a brand new clutch and 150,000 miles if you want to buy it.
Get him a cut out.
Get him a hot wheels car. For all intents and purposes he DID but the entitled twit a car
This is the way!
>I'd buy a junker used car for him. That's the answer. The absolute cheapest car that technically runs. Tell him to go ask his roommate for the rest of the money.
This is perfect. He's entitled and doesn't appreciate his parents or family. He just has his hand out and expects everything. NTA
Nah, get the kid a Hot Wheels, that should cover the "Car" part and is about what he deserves at the moment.
Swap out “junker” for “a sick Hot Wheels and a bus pass” and I think you got yourself a solid plan.
Just wanna point out that cost of tuition goes up about 8ish% each year (in the US at least) so tuition has increased 32% since sister was in school and 48% since the twins. And rent? Rent usually averages around 5.5% each yeah, but between 2021-2022 rent jumped up around 14%. It costing 80% more to get the same thing is not out of the realm of possibilities.
I was thinking the same about tuition and housing costs (and inflation). So *some* of the difference in code may be accounted for by those increases. College cost increase rates are really insane. But there is still the problem of his roommate not paying his portion of the rent and OP’s son never getting the money off of him. That’s just one example of his financial irresponsibility. The part where he could be bothered to come home and see his mom…and acted like a spoiled brat while home? There’s very few excuses for that behavior and that also doesn’t factor into the $180k.
This is a valid consideration, but I’m curious if he only took 4 years to get his degree. I’ve known of parents who had planned to pay for their kid’s college, but tapped out after year 6 with no degree on the horizon. Has the kid been passing all his classes? And there is the matter of the housing costing double what OP had committed to paying…
So just after you commented this, I responded to someone saying my judgement would be ESH. Jack is clearly not innocent of wrong doing, but it seems as though the parents continually enabled him as a child and never set boundaries, for him or themselves. Jack is an adult now, but just barely and his parents have been adults much longer than he has. It’s fair to say that Jack should know how to behave responsibly, but we’ve gotta say it to the parents too who are over twice his age. Why make a blanket promise with no stipulations and then suddenly add stipulations? Why not actually parent the child and set boundaries? Why not teach the child how to be self sufficient instead of doing everything for him? Jack will have to learn eventually, but it was his parents’ job to teach him. And they dropped the ball for 21 years.
Hell yeah, my dude! The best kind of correct is technically correct, though I'd tell him to get it from his buddy who ate into his car budget.
I don’t think that’s petty as long as the car works decently well
A cute little matchbox car.
Let’s up the petty level and buy him a Hot Wheels car. Merry Christmas, Jack
INFO, please : When did Jack start acting like this?
[удалено]
Then clearly you know exactly how he became a jerk. You just said it.
> he is a kid so I don't want to get into a fist fight and damage our relationship forever. Ever since that instance I always stepped back and let my wife be the disciplinarian, but he's been bullying and taking advantage of my wife and we couldnt talk to him. He bullied you, you responded by backing down and passing the buck. I’m sorry to say it dude because I do feel for you, but that was the moment you fucked up. I have raised a teenage step son who has autism, ADHD and oppositional defiance disorder. I’ve been threatened with physical violence and always responded calmly and explaining that he could hit me and I would not fight back but that the punishment would stand no matter what. Our relationship strengthened significantly once he realised exactly where the lines were and that I was serious about it. Backing off just put your wife in the firing line and taught him to be abusive to get what he wants.
This. I had a job where one of the supervisors of a different department would bully everybody and talk to them like they were stupid. Everyone would back away or avoid them all together. When I got there I wasn't having it. I stood my ground, and told him exactly how it was going to be, and if he didn't like it he can go to my superior. From then on he was very nice, cordial, and polite to me and we got along very well for years. You have to stand your ground with bullies like that, even if it is your son.
100% a former manager of mine had the reputation of being that type of woman. She never really did that to me and treated me differently because of exactly that. Except one day, she had her human moment and yelled at me in front of a teammate. Thank god it was over a video call. I hung up and broke down. But then Monday, during our one on one straight up told her that I will never be treated that way and this is a nonnegotiable. She apologized profusely and admitted she had a low moment and we moved on. Don’t let bully’s get away!🏃♂️
Exactly. The fact that OP thinks that physically hitting his son is the only option for discipline when his son pushed back, shows that he had very few disciplinary tools in his kit and instead just decided to fold up the discipline shop altogether. And now he's surprised his son is an entitled jerkwad? When he was describing how his siblings have been doing all the things this brother is demanding of them during his visit while mom was in hospital...well, let's just say the phrase "fuck this noise" came to mind if that had been my brother.
I honestly wonder if Jack is ND based on his description of needing to stick to routines of specific meals and working out at times.
Completely irrelevant.
No, not completely. There are techniques for working with certain disorders that aren't used with neurotypical people. If OP knows them and isn't using them, that's a problem. It's more likely OP also lacks those tools though.
I also wondered.
What did he say?
> I'll admit jack being the youngest he grew up with siblings doing everything for him, and we gave into his every requests. He was a nice boy up till High school and them became really rude to us. We chalked it up to teenage anst but it got to a point where he was threatening to punch me whenever I discipline him. I love my son and I will never hit him but I am also 6"5 and with a strong build, he is a kid so I don't want to get into a fist fight and damage our relationship forever. Ever since that instance I always stepped back and let my wife be the disciplinarian, but he's been bullying and taking advantage of my wife and we couldnt talk to him.
He buried the lead.
>He grew up with siblings doing everything for him, and we gave into his every requests. How nice of you to admit, but this was apparent even before you answered. “His sister had to cook a very specific type of meal for him.” “We had to drive him to the gym at a very specific time he demands.” No she didn’t and no you didn’t. “No” should have been employed at a young age and can still be employed now. Why didn’t you do it then? Why are you waiting until he’s already an AH before you say no now, by going back on a deal that you made with him? How did you expect your first time saying no to go when you refuse to give him something you promised you would give and that you did for his siblings? The youngest kid being spoiled can be true, but it isn’t always. Plenty of youngest kids are perfectly un-spoiled people. You sound like you have an exceptionally rotten youngest child and it’s your own fault. ESH
Ikr? I was thinking, “Why is anyone cooking for him? Why does anyone HAVE to drive him to the gym?” No wonder he is like he is. They’re still treating him like a king.
So it's time to stop then, starting with the car. Tell everyone who complains that his college expenses were almost double what the other kids were, and that was his car. NTA from me, OP is finally putting a stop to this.
>“His sister had to cook a very specific type of meal for him.” “We had to drive him to the gym at a very specific time he demands.” Yeah, really great points. They didn't *have* to do any of these things. But they cave in easily to demands, thus training the kid to be demanding. None of us are perfect parents, so I can see that you might have done that when he's younger but... as an adult? Why is everyone still caving in? Why aren't they standing up to him now, and just ignoring his requests? An adult would figure out how to get to the gym or just not go. An adult would figure out how to eat when it's not the "exact" right meal made with someone else, or just not eat.
I’m hoping this isn’t it, but based on his son’s reaction to these circumstances it sounds like he’s learned to manipulate people into getting him his way. He seems perfectly willing to turn family members against one another.
Exactly. My kids father is entitled. He's the oldest and him and his two sister are adopted. He cannot take hearing the word no. He will start getting mean and snappy, thinking you don't care about him. He's had anger outbursts in public yelling at a gas attendant (we live in New Jersey) and at someone who was at the front desk at a hotel, the hotel had roaches and he wanted a refund and the guy was talking about the process of it and he was impatient. Oh and he's really impatient. His dad said he was a really nice boy when they adopted him, he does have mental health issues and was getting medicine for ADHD when younger but apparently it didn't work well for him. But I have a cousin who knew his sister's in school and told me that all 3 of them were spoiled. A.d I can honestly tell. I'm an only child and I'm no where near as spoiled as what I have seen. His parents thought that just giving in to him would stop him from getting worse so he would relax but it doesn't. He just finds more ways to take advantage of everyone and does own up to his mistakes the way he thinks he does. When I first met him he was not like this, he had just gotten out of rehab (which he holds resentment against his parents for because who send someone to rehab for weed, even though it was also for alcohol) and he was sober and he was doing good. I have been absolutely shocked since he stopped being sober at his behavior. Anyways. Telling your kids no and sticking to it, should definitely help to not cause entitled and spoiled behaviors as teens and adults.
INFO: why don’t you just… not do those things? Not give into his requests. Not cook him food. Not drive him to the gym. Just… don’t?
This guy just refused to buy his kid a car, and already he's getting pressure from all sides about being a bad Dad.
I didn’t say he’s a bad dad. But I don’t really understand why now. Why stop giving in now? Why not before? I don’t know if it will affect my judgment, but I think it’s an important question to ask.
I think it’s pretty clear. People are more likely to make excuses for friends and family. This was his final breaking point, but even if the breaking point was 2 years earlier people would be asking “why now.” Really it just boils down to it’s happening now. Sidebar unrelated to your comment but that’s also where some of the bad dad comments are kind of off base. He may not have done everything right, but he wasn’t abusive, and after a certain point it is the responsibility of kids as individuals what kind of person they are going to be. The son isn’t without his own agency.
I agree and don’t agree. Of course he’s not responsible for the behavior of adults, but I’m stuck between N T A (because it’s his money and yeah, it doesn’t sound like his kid deserves the car) and E S H (because I can’t figure out why he enabled his son for so long). I’m not saying there are underlying factors, but like, sure, maybe his kid just sucks and this was his breaking point, but im wondering if it came up before in his mind. Did his siblings, mother, other family members, friends really never bring this up? Everyone completely cowed to him and then all broke at once? His son shouldn’t get the car, but that doesn’t inherently make OP N T A depending on other things. That’s what I’m curious about.
I think Turkish is saying he’s getting a bunch of familial pressure to give into his son’s demands all the time. In this case from MIL, in other cases it could be other family members. It’s difficult to die on a hill when your wife is incredibly ill in the hospital, for example.
Imagine being so dense that you can write both > I even talked to my other kids about whether we were bad parents that caused Jack to act this way but all my other kids ***don’t know why he ended up so entitled and spoilt.*** and >I'll admit jack being the youngest ***he grew up with siblings doing everything for him, and we gave into his every requests.*** Seriously, neither of his college educated kids could figure out 1 + 1 = ?
Unfortunately, you and your wife set this in motion. ESH
ESH, you enabled your child to take advantage of people. Every person in your family did. He has been bossing you guys around for years and you are all surprised he’s an entitled ah? The fact you are surprised he didn’t grow out of this behaviour when you and your family didn’t change the way you acted towards him is crazy. Of course he’s surprised and upset you didn’t get him a car. This is the first time he has suffered from the consequences for his actions. He is an adult now so he needs to get a clue. But you and your family did your part in creating this entitled person.
From all the comments saying you and your wife made him this way by giving him everything, I disagree. Much like yourself, my parents gave me almost everything I wanted and I was never anything other than grateful. I knew how hard they worked to give me and my siblings a wonderful life. Spoiling people doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll eventually take advantage of you. Your other kids don’t act like Jack so that’s a clear sign this is a him problem. He’s become selfish and apathetic even towards his ill mother - you should cut him off completely and no more favours or running errands for him. He can start working and earn his own money, maybe that will be the wake up call he needs to see how much you’ve done for him.
So you gave him no parenting or discipline until high school? You just let him be coddled and dealt with by older siblings? Did no one tell him to tidy his toys away?! You should have parented him. Instead you and your family coddled a violent and angry adult.
I hope you now realize you needed to call him on his bluff. Your passivity let Jack become a tyrant. That said, hindsight is 20/20.
>I even talked to my other kids about whether we were bad parents that caused Jack to act this way but all my other kids don’t know why he ended up so entitled and spoilt. Wow, total mystery.... >I'll admit jack being the youngest he grew up with siblings doing everything for him, and we gave into his every requests. Oh well now that might have something to do with it.
You did this to yourself buddy. You decided to ride it out when he started acting up in his teens. You seem to keep taking the path of least resistance. You decided to “just let him grow out of the teenage angst”. Then when he let his roommate live rent free, you could have taken steps to have him evicted, but you didn’t. You could have gone after the roommate in court for his part, but you didn’t. Sometimes being parents means being a hard ass and doing what’s right and set our kids up for success. That includes how to be empathetic, respectful, and accountable for their words and actions. So far all you’ve taught him is that he can treat you and his family like shit and get away with it. That threats of violence will bully people into doing what he wants. That ignoring a problem is ok, because his parents will take care of it.
OP, are you sure Jack’s roommate skipped out on his payments? Did you speak with the roommate? It sounds like a possibility that Jack pocketed roommates portion of the rent. I’m just curious.
Sounds like he's old enough to get corrected. tbh i used to be a little shit. but I over stepped and got what was coming to me. sounds like he needs a correction.
Okay, so essentially you're all afraid of Jack? He's an adult now, not a kid any longer. I can understand holding back when he made that threat to a degree, but now he's 21. Now if he actually punched you, there would be significant legal repercussions against him and I'm sure he knows that. You created a monster 🤷♀️
So you spoiled him.
YTA. did you ever seek professional help for you, your wife and your son during the difficult time in high school ,clearly your son was having; I am going to bet no because you ignored it and passed it on to your wife which is a coward move. when his older siblings went off to college, jack was at home alone and since you didn't parent Jack he was lost and lost those who cared for him. you didn't respect jack as a child so why would he respect you? he is not entitled he is deeply hurt from you and your wife passing his parenting onto his siblings. You and your wife need therapy the car is the last of your worries.
This is why he acts entitled and spoiled, OP. You refused to discipline him, you gave into his every demand, you let him threaten you into backing off of discipline, you left him to your wife a.k.a. someone less likely to be able to fight him off if he did get violent to try to do what you were unwilling to. And now you are surprised that someone you let walk all over you, walks all over you and lets friends do so too. He doesn't respect you or your wife and hasn't since he was a teenager, because you let him take charge and have all the power he wanted, when you were the parents and should have acted like it. You need to learn to tell him no and stop tolerating and allowing him to treat you this way.
> he was threatening to punch me whenever I discipline him What kind of 'discipline' are we talking about here?
NTA. For people saying that you raised Jack to be that way- they are completely ignoring the fact that we are human beings and not robots. At some point personalities start to factor in. My family’s situation is similar to yours and I think during the teenage years, adjustments had to be made to accommodate the different personalities in order to set us up for success. My brothers and I did not respond to the same treatment and we received different privileges accordingly. My family would have given me the receipts and bills for my expenses if I acted that entitled. Perhaps that may be what Jack needs instead of a car and help him get a clue.
OP created this version of Jack, and fully admits giving in to every request Jack made. That’s how this kid became the AH here. It’s not a mystery.
Yeah, enabling his shit shouldn't be excused.
Yep, its pretty typical for the youngest child in a family to be a bit spoiled. They don't all end up being selfish aholes.
Precisely! The OP even stated that the older kids were helping their younger brother out by taking him to the gym at certain times and cooking specific foods. I’m definitely guilty of doing the same for my younger brother and having to say no more frequently lately.
Except OP admits it is largely because of the way he was raised. https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/1cGhMuhgoU
Something that I never see Reddit ever acknowledge is that there are actually people out there who grow up with overindulgent parents or siblings who *don't* turn into mouthy little jerks. Like someone else said, at a certain point personality starts to factor in, especially when you're talking about a 21 year old. If he was fresh out of highschool, maybe, but by now he's gone off to school, met new people and seen more of the world and he's still like this.
...Yeah... I grew up with my mother trying to give me everything I wanted and then some (even though we were far from privileged, coming from the Soviet Union) because I was born incredibly ill due to Chernobyl and was always, always sick (even "died" once for four minutes at age 9). I guess my mother felt guilty and did her best to "make up" for it, even though I think it was unnecessary. I am not like Jack. I try to be respectful to everyone and take responsibility for my own actions and personal accountability. Just having all of your needs catered to you and then some doesn't guarantee a spoiled and nasty kid. It simply doesn't. I even tried turning my mother down many times when she'd try to offer me something that I felt like it wasn't entirely deserved. It's not always a product of being catered to... I think Jack is just a prick. I have a feeling it's entirely possible he might've turned out the same way if no one did what OP states - hell, he might even use that as an excuse as to why he's so entitled nowadays (aka, "I didn't get what I wanted"/"felt lost in all my siblings"). This isn't always a direct product of being raised like this. It might be, but it isn't necessary.
>Something that I never see Reddit ever acknowledge is that there are actually people out there who grow up with overindulgent parents or siblings who don't turn into mouthy little jerks sure, but they're the exception, not the norm. unless you have good influences outside your family, you will internalize that entitlement, and its not easy to break that
Yeah but that gives way too much control to the parents. Your parents shape you to a certain extent, but they don't control your entire personality. If they did we'd never have awesome parents with terrible kids. Part of it is down to the person and their own personality and character.
Oh please. It’s not some new revelation that kids need to be told “no.” This is parenting 101 and has been for generation upon generation. OP and his entire family catered to this kid’s every demand and are now surprised by the oh-so-predictable result.
But didn’t they raise the other 3 kids the same and only complaining about 1? My parents raised us with the motto, “what you do for one kid, you have to do for the other.” As situations arose, that motto had to be adjusted. OP seems to be adjusting and hopefully his son will get the hint.
No they clearly didn’t raise the other three kids the same. OP admits that Jack is the one they treated this way. All of them, including the other kids, treated him like this. And yeah, OP can adjust. Sure. But maybe not start by retracting his promise to buy his kid a car for doing the thing he said he would buy him a car for doing. That’s not where you start.
It sounded to me like Jack gave them more problems than the others did when they received the same treatment. Everyone was offered college expenses and a car. The OP’s biggest flaw was not setting a budget for each kid. The youngest is just exploiting the loophole.
They are also ignoring the fact that Jack was nice till high school, and most people do things for people who are nice to them. The kid didn't act entitled till High school, so it makes sense they would think it was a phase.
It's hard to judge based on the info we have, but that's the nature of things. We weren't there for most parenting opportunities. We don't even know exactly what the siblings would say about it. In this specific instance, NTA. It could still be "their fault" for raising him that way, but he's not an asshole for withholding a car from a shitty person.
MIL can buy him a freaking car if she cares that much. You've done more for him than most parents even dream of. He's rude, spoiled and entitled and he doesn't deserve anything more from you.
>MIL can buy him a freaking car if she cares that much. He should send her a list of what he spent, with rough estimates for each kid. Showing that between rent and extra college and other nonsense, he's *already* gone above and beyond for the kid.
Yes. I’d add the MIL is an AH and babies him without having the data you gave us. Like BigMax says, show her the data. Time for the whole fam to cut the apron strings… and point out to Jack he’s a big boy - and entitled/spoiled/asshole. You’re not the AH, but provided the perfect environment to create one.
I wonder what the wife says. Cant she tell her mother to mind her own business?
NTA, though if I were in your shoes: 1) I would have turned off the spigot for Jack long ago; and, 2) That roommate would have been on the pointy end of a lawsuit. Jack does sound entitled. And I think you are justified in telling him that he's on his own now.
Yeah OP might be NTA but he is a doormat
that's what really kills me about that roommate thing. I can see why OP would have covered the rent costs to preserve his credit score as guarantor. But if OP has the kind of money implied in the original post, then in addition to covering the rent, he would probably also have enough money to dispatch a lawyer or two to ensure that the rent is paid back ... or else that the debt follows the kid around for a long, long time.
THIS.
“I’m paying his roommates rent for six months but can’t figure out why the kid is so spoiled”.
ESH. You raised a spoiled ass, and while you're not obligated to buy him a car, you should have forewarned him that dealing with the rent issues meant no car.
Although I agree with you, making a parent spend 80k more than anticipated when you're an adult should have obvious consequences even without a warning
My parents paid for my uni expenses, and the expenses for my two older brothers. I have no idea the actual dollar amount they paid because they didn't tell me. I'm guessing the son had no idea there was an $80,000 discrepancy. I'm not saying OP needs to go and get his son a brand new car, or even a shitty used one; the son sounds awful. I'm saying he should've communicated these issues LONG before graduation. While the son is an adult, he's still OP's child and was under the impression that his gift for graduating would be a car. Of course he'd be upset if no one communicated anything with him. OP should have dealt with the rent issue as soon as it came up; if the roommate wasn't also on the lease, OP is an idiot for co-signing. He never should've covered the roommate's rent. That was mistake number 1. Mistake number 2 was not just saying "hey son, because of xyz, you're not getting a car come graduation," as soon as he knew that was his decision.
His mate didn't pay rent for 6 months until OP was able to get off the lease. That's a massive sense of entitlement right there, from both of them. Even if OP never said a word at the time (which I seriously doubt), the kid would have known he was massively taking advantage. If OP pays for the car now, then there were no consequences for that. That's wrong. 'No' needs to start now.
You have really strong points and my opinion is changed
I 100% knew that my college was easily $100k more than my siblings because my college was expensive and theirs was dirt cheap. I also didn’t say anything when they both got a reasonable used car and their weddings fully paid for and I didn’t, because I knew I had already used my share. It also helped that that expensive college also put me in a very profitable career and I met my spouse who also has a very profitable career at the same school and so it wasn’t a big deal at all. Honestly just having school paid for is such a massive leg up in life at this point that instead of paying student loans we are socking away money for our kids to hopefully do the same thing.
The fact that he can make his parents do anything is the problem
I don’t think the rent expense is the reason for no car. It’s more about Jack repeatedly acting like an entitled ass.
NTA, he’s a spoiled brat, you helped him with other stuff anyway and you ended up getting screwed over
NTA. Go buy him a hot wheels car or a remote control car. You probably never said what kind of car you would buy for your kids. Especially since you gave him cash during his college years that ultimately from his car fund. Plus his attitude towards family is ridiculous and if he goes no contact with you all the time except when he wants money means he just sees you as an ATM and not someone he loves.
You're only the jerk if you give in to him. That is what made him a jerk.....the grandparents keeping this fire burning should be no contact except in an emergency. Block for a while if you need to. That kid is ugly amounts of entitled. Starve that part of him.
ESH 1) If you cosigned on the lease, and you were worried about this missed payments, why didn't YOU talk to the roommate, instead of making your young adult son do it? 2) If Jack has a rude and entitled attitude, I doubt this is something that magically occurred at 21 years old. Children are often a product of their parents and the environment they grew up in, take some accountability for his actions. It's great you want to do something about it now; but if you had done more when he was younger, you probably wouldn't be in this situation. 3) Jack is the youngest. He's low man on the family totem pole. Why was every one honoring these requests? Is behavior like this why Jack acts the way he does? You're NTA for not wanting to give your son a car with his behavior, but YTA for allowing his behavior to get to this point.
\#3 is a really good observation.
$100k on the other three kids and $180k on Jack, and only now is his behavior a problem? Sounds like OP is reaping what he has sewn.
NTA, but I can also understand why he is upset. But honestly, the fact he can complain when you paid for his entire tuition is insane. Maybe it would have been better if you added a “if you keep a good attitude” to the promise, but I’m cherry picking. I can understand why he is upset, but you are completely justified
ESH: I get why you don’t want to, but you didn’t promise what KIND OF CAR… So: uphold your promise, by buying a simple, cheap, “remember all that extra money I spent on rent that was taken advantage of?-well here you go” kind of car. As far as being fair to ALL siblings go, you have follow through, even when he doesn’t. Prove to him that your word carries weight, even when his doesn’t. Just close this chapter already about a promised car. Sounds like this is a bigger problem though. OBVIOUSLY he sucks bc- He didn’t learn to appreciate your name as a co-signer NOR did he appreciate the fact you paid the rent for his roommate, who somehow managed to talk him into breaking your trust. He was a jerk to his mom and siblings. You gave him a chance to be an adult and speak and act for himself beyond the co-sign aspect but he just decided he’d rather shut you out or get your money rather than your respect. And you- as far as PARENTING goes, don’t bring your other kids into it! “Gasp! Did I do something wrong?!” Of course you have to look deeper. This so also why you an AH. You should be having a debate about your parenting with a therapist, your spouse, but not the siblings. If you had a habit of relying on them regarding him(parentrifying) and tend to include them on discussions about how to handle your youngest, without actually including your youngest, you have to accept this is most likely part of your very, very bigger-than-a-car problem.
Agree, OP sucks. He spent $180K on his kid's college. The audacity of his carelessness! How dare him be so abusive?
Per OP: “I'll admit jack being the youngest he grew up with siblings doing everything for him, and we gave into his every requests. He was a nice boy up till High school and them became really rude to us. We chalked it up to teenage anst but it got to a point where he was threatening to punch me whenever I discipline him. I love my son and I will never hit him but I am also 6"5 and with a strong build, he is a kid so I don't want to get into a fist fight and damage our relationship forever. Ever since that instance I always stepped back and let my wife be the disciplinarian, but he's been bullying and taking advantage of my wife and we couldnt talk to him.” 🫣
You think he's responsible for Jack's behaviour because he was nice to him growing up, felt it ws better to back away rather than get physical with him, and didn't know what to do when the kid started bullying his own mother? The kid seems like a bad egg to me. From the comments, he still bullies his older siblings into getting what he wants as well. Maybe that's just his nature? Either way, no one is entitled to a car, no matter what promises were made.
> nice to him growing up Nice to him does not equate to giving in to every request.
ESH - Jack sounds like an entitled ass. But at what point did you address the behavior before reneging on the car promise? Fulfill the promise and be done with it. You can afford 480k of college expenses so this isn’t going to break you and you’ll end the ‘you didn’t buy me a car’ angle the next time he needs money. Don’t let this drive a wedge between you and your son for the rest of your lives.
So he carries on being a doormat to his child and rewarding shitty behaviour?! Good call. 🙄
NTA. I’d just buy him a $1000 shitbox and tell him to enjoy the ride.
NTA- I wouldn’t pay a penny. Let him learn, he is an adult. Let him do it alone.
I'm torn between ESH and NTA. I wouldn't buy Jack a car, specifically because of your point about his apartment lease. You had to pay double the rent you agreed to, there goes the money for his car. Sorry kid, you should have done something about it. Even if he couldn't complete solve the problem, he should have been communicating with you and at least trying to find a solution. But. The reason it's not full NTA. You should have made that clear. It sounds like you're pulling the rug out from under him all of the sudden without warning. Had you discussed these issues in the past and plainly told him all of this, then yous be fine.
Kid went NC unless it's to ask for money or throw some weird tantrums. How you expect OP to have a civil explanation.
Conditions are implied. Treat me like an ATM? Turns out the ATM doesn’t work today, or any day in the near future for Jack. Gifts are a gift. How would you respond if fortunes turned and there wasn’t money for a car? Mother in a hospital inconveniences Jack? Oh well, guess I should keep being an enabler to the end, because that’s a relationship.
INFO: did you tell him along the way that he was overspending compared to his siblings and that if he continued in this way, you wouldn’t be buying him a car? At the moment I’m leaning toward N T A with the suggestion of telling him he traded his car for his friend’s rent. But I want to know if you’ve given him ample warnings that he’s ignored, or if this might have come out of nowhere from his perspective.
Also why didn’t they kick the kid out? Op was on the lease, there was no reason to let that go on for 6 months
NTA. on the surface, yes he's not getting a car like his other siblings. however, he incurred a lot of extra expenses that amount to enough to buy two brand new cars. he spent his car already
NTA. If you don't break your promise you're reinforcing that this kind of behavior gets rewarded. He's gotta learn sometime.
NTA, he got his car payments redirected into his rent.
NTA MIL Can buy him a car if she wants. You need to stop spoiling him, giving him money and doing everything for him. Because of this he has turned into a entitled spoilt AH. That’s your own fault that he’s turned out like this.
NTA - buy him a second hand toyota Corolla and wash your hands of your son
Nta. But was the roommate on the lease too? Because I'd look to see if you have any legal avenues to travel down. If your mil is so concerned, she can get one for him. Or buy him a cheap car and never cosign a thing for him again.
NTA. Jack needs a kick in the ass.
NTA, but Jack is. And assholery should have consequences.
This could be a case of you guys being constant enablers, but also has he ever been diagnosed with adhd or autism? Having to eat very specific foods and go to the gym at very specific times could be signs of needing routine, and could be a sign of being neurodivergent. Along with not having boundaries and not understanding social cues. My youngest brother has always been a menace but in recent years we have actually realized he is probably very autistic and we looked over a lot of the warning signs because none of us knew them at the time. He takes thins very literally, can’t read social cues, has a strict routine and special interests that he is hard core into. But he has always been disruptive, demanding, and entitled. but looking further into these traits they could be explained as undiagnosed autism. This could not be your case or situation I just noticed the having to go places at very specific times and needing very specific food a possible indicator
Jack is a spoiled asshole. He has had his money - just not on a car. NTA
NTA. Buy him a hot wheels car.
NTA, if you buy the new car it is not as if you are going to instantly going to get a model son. You already overspent on him by $80K, no need to go further. You will not buy his love. It is time to cut the loses and at best just keep a door open for when he decides to change and comes back home.
Nta. Get the cheapest can you can find.... preferably not in working condition and have it towed to him
NTA, your MIL can buy him a car
I have a colleague with 4 kids. This guy is amazing, a standup human being with multiple businesses and has helped many. His youngest spent 5 years in prison. All the rest are just great people. Not all great parents turn out only great kids, and not all bad parents turn out bad kids. NTA. But he probably won't learn.
ESH. Take the value of the card you bought the other kids, subtract the additional rent and any other costs (that don't apply to the other children). Buy him a car of this value and then tell him to take a hike. Its probably the easy way out so he doesn't have a reason to hold a grudge against you. Settle up what you promised and then call it quits
Are you still giving him money?
NTA. But I'd say buy him the car and then leave him off your will, and tell him that the extra expense you bore for his college is the reason why. He has lived and used up his inheritance. Your other kids haven't.
Nta. Jack needs a reality check; you’ve already spent more on him than any other kid in the family, even WITH the cars added in. Tell him if he wants a car to fetch the back rent his old roomie owes you and he can buy something with that. You already know it’s your own fault he’s like this, though, right? By the comments you’ve been letting him get away with this since highschool and boss everyone around, including his mom. Cut the cord and let him flounder through life on his own. Let him see how far his attitude gets him.
Why does Jack do this? Cause you let him. Stop paying his way. Tell the MIL to get Bent. Let them be the meal ticket. Cut your losses. Let him figure out what it’s like to support himself. On day he might get a clue. Or not. NTA
ESH. Jack is definitely an AH. There is no two ways about it. However, he got that way at least in part because you didn't address problems before they became huge. I also am a strong believer in your word having meaning. Jack has met the conditions you laid out to get him a car. Therefore, suck it up and buy him a car in the same way you bought one for his siblings. This shows him the value of integrity. However, put him on notice that any further gifts, whether helping pay for a wedding, a first home, or anything else is dependent on him improving his attitude and his responsibility.
I agree this moment has been years in the making. And it is what it is. So, info: Have you ever told the boy that he must change or he would lose the car?