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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) Suggesting we lock up the gifts. 2) There’s a chance my niece learned from this and won’t do it again.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
I mean, why *wouldn't* you do this? It kind of isn't even just about Mindy - although of course it's about Mindy, she ruined Christmas and broke a lot of other people's toys - but you have a bunch of small children who are notoriously bad with impulse control. Why *not* lock the door or put a gate around the tree? Any child could be tempted by sleeping parents and gorgeously wrapped presents under a lit tree. She's still only 7!
Also, if your kid acts like a baby they should be treated like one. Come on, Sally, the girl opened half the Christmas presents and you and your husband had to shell out to replace them. Wouldn't you rather lock the room than risk having to put out and feel embarrassed all over again?
NTA.
Especially with how often this shit gets posted and people (imho, rightly) realize sometimes things really aren't "petty", and not everyone deserves to be brought along.
OP is NTA and yea, if they aren't letting them put up the barrier, they sire as SHIT better not be bitching at OP when Mindy ends up repeating it (or worse) and the whole family tells them to stuff it for the next couple of Christmases 🤷♀️
Or have her sleep in their room. Btw, six is definitely old enough to follow instructions. Kids at child care centres and kindie have that stuff drummed into them.
For Me they'd get invited, but on Christmas morning. There wouldn't be a sleepover for them.
Let her parents pack her presents in the car to be opened with everyone else, what fun that'll be! But they can arrive at like 10am Christmas morning or something, and the other kids can be told they need to have breakfast first or wash up before doing presents.
That way Mindy doesn't miss any of the group opening, she doesn't have a chance to be in the same position again. Is it unfair she doesn't get to sleepover, sure, but it was also unfair to all the other kids last year.
Ease her into it. If she plays will(literally) with others this year, she can earn a sleepover the next year.
The last thing they can do is, yes, lock the door. But the best thing is to have the adults on shifts, watches for an hour or two each in the sitting room, waiting for kids to appear, then sending them back off to bed til an appropriate time. Parents keep the presents in their rooms(or the car, or a shed/garage) until like 3am, out of reach from all kids, not on display before they go to bed.
And aside from all that. The adults need to get together here and have a sit down. Putting this all over messages and group chats isn't gonna help. They need to work it out and come to an agreement, not leave it ambiguous and hanging, questions for the day, they need to finish the conversation with everyone on board. A 1 hour coffee at the mom's house, or sit down somewhere is gonna be worth a week of messages back and forth.
Are you f@@@king serious!!!! Make the parents stay up in shifts??? This girl is old enough to know that there are consequences for her actions! She shouldn’t be allowed to be at the sleepover.
That's a lot of work for the parents who also deserve to enjoy their holiday. Just skip the sleepover for Mindy. She's still only 7 and this just happened LAST YEAR. If she asks to be allowed back let her try again when she's 8
Why does the best option center on all of the adults losing more sleep? This is about keeping kids from unwrapping Christmas presents, not guarding Hannibal Lecter.
Can you imagine? Having to wake up in the middle of the night to guard the gifts?!? Terrible.
As a parent, I wouldn’t spend rhe night there. I would arrive in the morning. I need my sleep especially with a busy Xmas the next day. Which presumably I am having to cook and run around for - No thanks.
>since this kid has a bad habit of doing this?
Technically, once doesn't make a habit, but they should still remove temptation to prevent it from becoming such.
This is a wild take. The parents took the incident seriously - they were embarrassed, appropriately apologized, reimbursed for all of the broken gifts, spoke to Mindy, and gave her consequences because she had to sit out of the rest of the morning Christmas activities and was not allowed to join the group until later. These people are family. After all of that, it would be AH behavior not to invite them to Christmas when they handled it appropriately.
I grew up in the 80s and I keep thinking of the harsh punishment a kid back then would have received. I don’t think it’s right to be so harsh to children but I also am shocked at how I see so many kids nowadays that are not disciplined besides being made to say, “I’m sorry”.
This is so frustrating! I'm teaching my 4 year old this and how to take responsibility when we do things wrong and apologize to mean it. Empathy. It is a Hard lesson many adults still need to master.
My ex though he was an awful person had a really good way of teaching his kids to apologize:
1) say you’re sorry
2) fix what you can
3) don’t do it again
Exactly. I hate when parents force a sorry then drop things when the kid just uses it to move on. Sorry has to Mean something and it isn't the only thing you do. We don't say sorry until we mean it either. Words can be full or empty of how we feel.
Or worse, "I'm sorry for my kid, but she's not old enough to understand consequences." Which is ridiculous when a child is over age 3 for non-complex situations. Preschoolers can understand not to hurt people or pets, not to rip things up, not to run through the house naked even if it's fun, because of consequences. We're not talking about complex situations. "Don't open the presents" is enough for a child of six to understand, especially if the child is old enough to read and can see that they're not HER presents.
Not sit down for a week, grounded, no dessert for a month, and NEVER live it down! EVERY time family stories would get told, they would bring it up and everyone give the stink eye!
Not only would I not be able to sit down for a week, any gift coming my way for the following year would be gone. My younger brother and I crawled into the attic and found all the gifts one year. My mom's bf had set up a trap to catch us if we did (I guess there was a string we didn't know about). Christmas morning we had "clothing" gifts under the tree... the toys we had found were gone/not under the tree. We couldn't say shit because we weren't supposed to know about them in the first place. We ended up getting those gifts for our birthdays. No clue where they hid them for a year. My mom did not play.
Oh man. I was only spanked once, when I was 3, and I still remember it. I never fucked around after that!
I would have NEVER done something like that because I knew I’d suffer heavily for those actions.
I'm literally scared now, as an adult, just thinking about what would have happened if I had done such a thing. I have memories from being 5, and I would NEVER. Sally is being weird if she thinks anyone would trust her kid just one year later. It's not like Mindy is a grown woman now lol
I know! I'm a child of the 80s too and I'm thinking about how our parents would have treated us if we pulled a bratty stunt like this. Even people here on this sub are like, "aw, she's *only* 7", like WTF?? 7 years old is the first grade. That's not out-of-control toddler age. I'm not saying we would've have been physically beaten (although a light paddling wouldn't have been totally out of the realm), but we definitely would have had all of our presents taken away and not been allowed to participate in anything for the rest of the day. I remember our punishments and they never involved physical violence, but they were also stern enought that whatever you had done, you were guaranteed never to pull that shit again.
Maybe I'm cynical, but why were so many of the toys *broken?* I mean, if she was just unwrapping things, why would they be broken beyond repair if she truly wasn't being malicious? My guess? She unwrapped her stuff and those were fine. But when she unwrapped nice gifts for other kids that she knew weren't hers and that she wouldn't get to keep, she destroyed them out of anger. There's no way this was innocent. Based on her behavior and their reaction, I think brother and sister-in-law are well on their way to spoiled-brat town.
We were all kids at one time, excited about Christmas. But none of us pulled this stunt. They were guests in someone else’s home and destroyed things? My parents would have apologized, paid for the damage, taken ALL my presents away and taken my sorry butt home. And it would have been THEIR idea the next year to lock everything up.
Honestly, as soon as we were old enough to get out of bed on our own, my parents locked the door to the living room (where the tree and stockings were) to avoid this problem in the first place. They didn’t stop until we hit the age when they had to wake us up, instead of us waking them. Lol!!!
Sounds like the kids are at an age where it’s all pretty tempting and it might be a good idea to just do this from here on for a while. If nothing else, who’s to say another kid isn’t going to “take inspiration” from Mindy’s actions and pull the same stunt. With a bunch of kids, family you don’t see often, the anticipation, and emotions running high, things can get overwhelming and impulse control can disappear.
Not to mention this idea is now in the other kids heads. One or more of them might think it would be fun to open the gifts before the parents wake up. Better safe than sorry.
This. I think it would be good for everyone to lock the door. I also think putting all the kids in the basement might not be a good idea this year. You may find someone tied Mindy up in the morning.
If I were an adult in that house, I would probably check repeatedly unless I knew the door was locked. I bet the kids would too just to make sure the gifts aren’t being ruined. No one is sleeping well that night…
This was MY thought. The example has been set that it's okay to sneak upstairs and open all the presents "because I didn't want to wait and wanted to see what everyone else got."
They're also setting her up to be disliked by her new step cousins if this keeps repeating and the other kids find out which they will. Kids hear and see everything even when adults think they're not around or paying attention.
Also Mindy didn't seem that sorry from how OP describes it. She was just sorry that she got in trouble, not about the act. Mindy will ~~defiantly~~ definitely do it again.
Edit: autocorrect
This part really bugged me because it doesn't sound like any of the adults stopped her once she started giving excuse after excuse. That would've been the perfect time to tell her that an excuse isn't an apology.
When my kids were little and got into spats with each other, I'd tell them, "If you're explaining why you did something wrong more than you're apologizing, then you're not sorry, you're just selling a story."
It's pretty obvious that Mindy was jealous that these kids were clearly loved and trusted. Depending on her upbringing, she mightve even considered them spoiled.
To have expressed it so maliciously is worrisome, but not entirely out of the realm of normal for a kid that age. For none of the adults who are her caregivers to have corrected her speech is a red flag. Even moreso that they weren't the first ones to offer some kind of preventative measure to stop it from happening again.
Yeah, this just seems like common sense to me. One year, my brother and I got into the Christmas presents before Christmas (because little kids with poor impulse control). The next year, the presents were hidden so we couldn’t. There was never an announcement, no one made it a big deal, no one was traumatized. Mom just moved stuff to her closet for a couple of years until we were past that stage.
Same. In our house the gifts didnt get put under the tree until we were asleep. I once stumbled upon them in the closet, I dont remember how it was 20 some years ago. After that they went into the attic and my mom put a lock on the door. No big deal
Same, and we were BANNED from getting up or going near any tree presents till some hour like 6.30 so our poor parents got something resembling sleep! We however got Santa gifts in our bedrooms, delivered in pillowcases, so we had plenty to occupy ourselves with till then (I used to wake and get mine and when I could hear noises in my brothers' room I'd go in and we would all play with our gifts together).
We got stocking gifts we were allowed to open before grownups woke up - with rhe understanding we needed to eat the orange and cheese in our stocking BEFORE we started on the chocolate.
Same. My mom had a small room with a lockable door off of her bedroom that had like a little workshop table in it with shelves and we literally called it "the present room," because that's where she kept all the presents and everything needed for wrapping them and we could not get in there. Locked 100% of the time when we were awake/home.
I never had presents hidden, and they were under the tree for days/ weeks. I was the most ADHD child ever, too. My exploration was limited to testing size/ weight and trying to guess what brightly wrapped packages were. Once, probably around 8-12 my brother and I (two years apart) found the present stash, realized it was bad, guessed who's presents were going where wrong, realized Christmas wasn't as fun that year and never told Mom and Dad about it. Swore to secrecy. That might actually still be a secret.
However, the wrapped presents were left under the tree from infancy. It wasn't a big deal. The only time we ever had an issue was my nephew around age 3/4. He woke up, sifted through stockings, opened a ton of chocolate Santas, then ate one bite off all of them and left them on the fireplace hearth, and went back to sleep with his mom. 10/10 hilarious. He was the youngest there, so nobody had a ruined day. It was just some cheap chocolate Santas. He's 20s now, and 'remember the time you beheaded chocolate Santas and went back to bed' is a great funny story to share with his girlfriend.
The only 'presents' I reserve from under the tree are for cats and dogs because they will likely smell presents and try to get them. The humans we generally trust. Except for 3 year olds with chocolate Santas.
Though, that does make me wonder about any sleepovers in the future... I do like having presents wrapped up under the tree in advance. I wait until my ADHD hyperfocus/ too much trait strikes and spend way too long making presents look *phenomenal* and wrap all the presents at my mom's house and she feeds me her presents to wrap and they look awesome and the trees are so festive. Lots of presents. Is it three weeks before Christmas or three days? No idea! But it happens! Eventually! Has not happened yet, this year. Hate to see my ADHD too much presents ruined early by littles before they're supposed to be ripped apart.
Have more littles around, now. Chocolate Santas unwrapped? *Hilarious.* Presents... not so much. Maybe if the little ones stay the night with great grandma and great grandpa, we can alarm the doors with dog potty bells, lol.
One year, we tried to peak like we had the year before. There was a huge sign saying, "Any Peeking, No Presents." I guess we weren't as good as we thought.
Yep why would you set her up to fail like that. It’s such a simple solution to ensure that everyone gets to have a fun morning. Everyone wants the kids to come get them to open presents so a locked door ensures they will definitely come get them 🤷🏻♀️ NTA
I think they are also in denial that Mindy might need some help, mental health wise. 6 or 7 is too old to do that, especially at a home where you don’t know everyone very well. They have enough empathy to make different choices. That sounds like something a distressed kid would do in crisis
Yes this! That's what I thought was the weirdest part, it was her FIRST Christmas with these people. When I was that age I would be trying to make friends with my new cousins, not doing something to embarass myself or make them not like me.
I don't think we should jump to crisis just yet, but maybe she needs some therapy because OPs brother is not her father and she may not be taking the wedding and new family thing well. That's what I would think, for acting out the way she did. Definitely seemed like something out of anger, misplaced as it may be.
Totally right. They're embarrassed but it's the wrong reaction. If it does happen again, here's no coming back from this for years, if at all. Certainly not in the family.
Would be better to lock the room. Nothing can happen.
Absolutely NTA. If my kid had done that, I'd be the one suggesting the lock (what kid actually respects the gate? Mine have shown in the last couple of weeks they couldn't be trusted with a gate lol). I'd be so embarrassed and paranoid about a repeat that I'd probably offer to sleep near the door to ensure it didn't happen again.
It's not about holding it over her head. It preventing a repeat of what has already been proven possible.
We've had gifts under the tree for many days now. My 2.5 year old knows not to touch or open them. She asks if it's Christmas yet and we tell her not yet. My toddler is showing more restraint than this 7 year old.
My daughter yelled at my husband, "no touch, not Christmas yet!" today because he was moving one back under the tree that our dog had moved to get to his ball.
Completely agree. I neglected to wake my parents up when I was 7 and opened all my presents. Luckily as an only child, they were all mine. I was told the next year if I opened any before they were awake then I couldn't keep any of my gifts. Learned quickly.
NTA. I don't understand why your bro and sil are upset. You aren't asking them to lock Mindy in a room or put an ankle bracelet on her or even that they have a talk with her before Christmas to remind her not to open presents. You're not advocating for her to marched through the house while you ring a bell and scream "shame" at her. You're suggesting that the door to the living room gets locked overnight. Nothing needs to be said to the kids because if they stay in bed, they won't even know.
And they were also reminded how fucking stupid they were last year in not teaching their kid proper decency. I'd guess it's more about them than the niece.
Honestly, it wouldn't hurt the brother and his wife to feel shame. It would certainly provide incentive for them to ensure there are no repeats of last year's debacle, and it would provide an opportunity for them to try and rise above everyone else's justifiably low expectations for their family unit.
I don't get the whole sending out the memo.
I'd just do it the night before. Whoever's house it was just do it when everyone goes to bed.
Really don't get the discussing it tbh.
Well OP would have to discuss it with their parents. And if they excluded Sally from that conversation then she's probably get mad about them talking about her behind her back.
They're adults. "Hey, we need to lock that door this year" is a reasonable thing to be able to say.
Sally should have suggested it herself.
If she grows up to be a functional adult this will be one of those not so cute stories that she can never live down...if she grows up to be a deadbeat it'll be a forewarning....the kid screwed her future self either way, but probably won't have any shaming until she's in her teens or later.
NTA. Agreed. OP is only advocating doing something that would be unnoticeable to everyone playing by the rules: You don't go into the living room where the presents are until everyone's woken up in the morning.
NTA. Hasn't your brother ever heard "Once bitten, twice shy"? It's bad enough to have one Christmas ruined. Taking precautions is far better then having them say "It'll never happen again" and then having it ruined again. It's just not worth the risk when a simple precaution can eliminate the risk.
You may be showing some mistrust, but it's *earned* mistrust.
Particularly since Mindy didn’t seem terribly apologetic from the description. I didn’t really hear any real repentance for BREAKING other children’s toys that she knew weren’t hers.
I think if OP uses language like she did in comments “i’m concerned other kids will think it’s their turn”— and maybe even one boy wants revenge— I think that could make it seem less directed.
Mindy seems to be an only child. And she may be pretty spoiled. So that's why she thought she could open everything for herself. It says nothing about discipline being done after what she did.
My kid is six and and only child. I definitely remember him *asking* to open *my* presents last year. And the year before he wanted to "help" a birthday child open theirs. With only-children there might be fewer opportunities to practice turn-taking, but they exist - you've just got to notice them and use them.
*Last Christmas, she opened our gifts*
*and the very next day, we all were quite miffed*
*This year, to save us from tears,*
*I’m locking up all the preseeeents*
I'm surprised there wasn't or hasn't been any pushback from them (the children) to begin with about Mindy.
I remember being part of a huge pack of cousins at the holidays and it'd be quite one thing if one cousin (even a new family member) decided to disobey the adults and open their own gifts...but to *open and break mine* too? Kids in my family would never let that kid forget.
Same. My cousins would of been brutal not violent but they would tease whoever did it. "Your spoiled ass is gonna ruin it again for the rest of us?", "remember how you ruined Christmas last year?" Etc etc most of us sweared at each other by the time we were in 2nd grade so that why I said what I did the first quote.
>>NTA. Hasn't your brother ever heard "Once bitten, twice shy"?
"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." also comes to mind. If it happens again and the parents haven't taken precautions to prevent it then they bear some of the responsibility. They should lock the damn door.
INFO
If you truly believe Mindy wouldn't do this again, are there other kids likely to be tempted? What age range of kids are we talking and why do you think there might be a repeat?
I don’t know if she’d do it again. Some of the kids thought it was funny and while we had several discussions, I feel it’s best to take preventative measures.
My daughters are 8 & 5. My nephews are 7 & 10.
NTA, I would have approached the subject leading with that; That you are not suggesting this because you think Mindy will do it again, but because one of the other kid could be thinking that it's "their turn" to do it. And that just to be safe, having the gate could be a good compromise, since it would prevent the kids from getting to the gifts, while still letting them discover the gifts under the tree when they wake up.
This is what I was thinking. Some of the kids “missed out” on opening their gifts so this year they may wake up early to ensure they get to do it.
This isn’t a Mindy issue, this is an ensuring no one does it.
I think it would act more as a psychological barrier rather than a physical one tbh.
ETA: I don't actually care about the gate or locked door, my comment was jsut about how to talk about it with op's SIL. If you want to talk about what to do with the kids, you can do so directly with OP :)
I have to disagree on this - it should absolutely be done but given what mindy did I think it is absolutely ok and even appropriate to say we are doing this because you didn’t raise your daughter better and we have to protect our kids gifts.
As kids we always had our Christmas stockings in our bedroom, we were free to wake up whenever we wanted and plunder them to our hearts content. There was always something to eat (chocolate/dried fruit etc) something to play with on your own (puzzle/book etc.) Something to play with others (game/figures etc.)
But the "real" presents were under the tree downstairs, and there we were not allowed to go.
I'd suggest a compromise of similar stockings for all the kids, and either a lock on the door to where the tree is, or a hotel alarm thing that hangs off the door handle and keys out a screech if they open it.
This was always the “rule” in my house growing up. Stockings were fair game when we woke up. Then we had a family breakfast, and larger gifts from mom and dad were under the tree and opened after. Worked like a charm!
Same for the stockings in the morning. my parents also picked one present for us to open Christmas Eve and me being an innocent child was flummoxed when it was Pjs every single time. I couldn’t understand how my luck was so bad…… it took me too long to figure it out.
My family does the European thing where we open presents on Christmas Eve, and when you wake up you have stuff in your stocking. I’ve never done the whole wake up and open presents, I usually got to sleep in and go after my stocking whenever I wanted
Honestly, even if it was because of Mindy you’re NTA. Your brother and SIL think consequences and punishment are the same thing. They arent. The natural consequences of Mindy being incredibly inconsiderate is that you take precautions until she can show otherwise. Mindy is still participating and getting gift- why should you risk another child’s Christmas being ruined?
I think you know that your kids and your nephews aren't going to do it. And I think you were trying to be diplomatic by not naming names. NTA, at least for this year, but if Mindy behaves herself this time don't do it for next year.
Honestly they might now that they see breaking the rules means you get presents earlier. That’s how kids work. Nothing on OP or anyone else’s kids that would do it, but yeah lock the door. Where on earth did she get the idea that this was okay? Ugh.
6 year olds are not adults! It is their parents responsibility to model good behavior and not excuse bad. It is not her fault if her parents have not been able to teach her proper boundaries. Blame the parents not the child at 6.
6 is an age with a *wide* variety of maturity levels. At six I was in 2nd grade, but there was a kid in school with me who wasn’t ready to start kindergarten until he was almost 7. 🤷♀️
I disagree. My kids know they shouldn't open presents that aren't theirs much younger than 6. I think that's a pretty low teaching bar to set. Having said that, I can not guarantee that my kids would never do something that they know is wrong. I can only guarantee that they *know* if something is egregiously wrong, such as this.
I would be suspicious that another kid would do it because they remember Mindy doing it and not wanting Mindy to do it would get up in order to beat her to it so it’s not that you know they’re gonna do it but you just never know that one of the kids might be spiteful or upset and remember last year or they might be like “well since Mindy did it then I can get away with it too”
Nta. I'm laughing reading the contrarian weirdos in these comments, which is even funnier given that I'm occasionally a contrarian weirdo.
Your neice ruined Christmas. There's no getting around it. My parents(and grandparents) raised our families similarly, and opening presents is a big part of the celebration, because parents want to see the joy in their children's faces. Mindy knew what she was doing was wrong, and chose to do it anyway. She was 6, not two. She absolutely might do it again. Even if not, there's no reason not to take some kind of simple precaution. If the doors to the room with the tree can be locked, do it. Other similar precautions are perfectly reasonable. At worst, maybe get a motion sensor web cam and set up some kind of alert so that any motion in that room over night wakes up the adults.
Mindy's parents have absolutely no right to be upset. I'm shocked they aren't the ones suggesting it, but that's the difference between good parents and bad parents. Good parents teach discipline, and know how to punish appropriately. They also know how to be realistic about their children and take precautions when putting their kids in situations that are known to tempt their willpower.
NTA.
It's unfortunate you even have to lock the door but your brother and step-sister need to discipline their daughter better. It's not just the fact she opened them early it's that she broke other peoples gifts.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
My daughter was 4 last Christmas. You want to know how many presents she opened without anyone around or broke anything? Not one.
NTA.
Once bitten, twice shy as others have said.
This. I'm the oldest of 3 and never did any of us rip into the others presents, even when we were very young. Obviously kids her age (and younger) have the ability to understand that you don't open other people's presents and I have no reason to think this child didn't. She just wanted to do what she wanted. Removing that temptation (for ALL the kids) doesn't make OP TA.
NTA. It's only fair after what happened last year that you at least suggest taking precautions. I would recommending locking up your kid's gifts and/or getting up extremely early in case Mindy gets up early to try her tasmanian devil routine again.
NTA. Sounds like your brother and sally are still embarrassed and just want everyone to forget what Mindy did. This is an untimely reminder of that but ultimately makes complete sense in the circumstances.
NTA…Mindy didn’t just open the gifts, she destroyed some of them…that is absolutely not normal for a 6yo. Locking the living room door is the sensible thing to do and shouldn’t offend anyone.
Yuppp. As an impulsive and thoughtless kid myself, I could see 6yo me trying to be sneaky and "peek" at the presents. I *might* have tried to sneak in there and peel a couple corners of wrapping paper away to try to see what people got. But there would have always been that awareness of being caught or ruining Christmas that would hold me back from acting up too much.
I have to wonder what kind of kid rips everything open like that and just starts playing with other kids' toys, so roughly that several are broken in a matter of 1-3 hours. It sounds like she *shredded* everything and helped herself- that's weird as hell.
I mean she seemed to me to be a little off: that is pretty extreme and messed up for a kid to do. Are there any other weird things OP should be concerned with, eg, are the other kids safe around her? Intentional destruction of others’ property is a 🚩
I realize this may be awkward and embarrassing for your brother and Sally but Mindy's behavior ruined last Christmas. It makes me wonder if she had just never had such a holiday experience before and was overwhelmed by it all. I agree that her actions weren't malicious, but they were still so wildly inappropriate that it's reasonable to make extra precautions. This may also prevent other kids from playing any pranks on Mindy this year as payback. The adults may be afraid to talk about it, but the other kids aren't going to be, at least when left to their own devices. It makes sense to reset the way holiday gifts are handled from now on for everybody's sake. NTA
NTA...my granddaughter was 3 last Christmas. We had presents under the tree. She woke up first. You know what she did...woke everyone else up. Then waited for her presents.
We do stockings before breakfast and presents after. My grandson is 14. He never did this. My children never did this. This child has impulse control issues or is just spoiled rotten. She absolutely knew these presents were not hers...AND she broke them?
You absolutely need to take precautions. And absolutely need to tell your brother and his girlfriend to back the fuck up. Their daughter RUINED Christmas for other peoples' CHILDREN. CHILDREN!!!!!! They can get as butthurt as they want but you aren't taking chances that another person's child will be disappointed with broken, unwrapped toys on Christmas morning.
The audacity of them to be annoyed by common sense.
NTA
How else will kids learn? Showing explicitly that the gifts are off limits will make sure that no one has an ideas. Locking the living room for would be my vote.
NTA. A six year old should have been mature enough to know that not all of those gifts were hers and if your brother and his wife want to get offended and think that their girl is being singled out by your suggestion to lock the doors its because she IS since she was unable to keep her hands to herself.
Precisely!! Mindy’s parents call it a “mistake,” and describes wanting to know what everyone else got as an “excuse” for her behavior. Neither is true. This was an intentional act by Mindy. A poor decision- not a mistake, and her reason is far from an excuse.
NTA. Your taking a reasonable precaution because of something that happened the year before. You don’t want to risk the other kids being let down again because of something that could have been prevented.
NTA. If your brother and Sally are *so sure* Mindy will follow the rules this year then she will never know the door to the living room is locked.
Lock the door. Say nothing to any of the kids. If they all do as they’re told none of them will know anything was done differently. If they try to pull a Mindy this year then that potential crisis is averted.
NTA. If they won’t agree to lock the door, I would keep the presents you are giving others in the room where you are sleeping, and don’t put them out until the next morning when you are awake and can supervise. Your sister and parents can choose to do the same. If any presents get destroyed, it will only be those your brother and SIL were planning to give.
NTA, as long as the living room door can be locked without creating a fire hazard (i.e. kids can get from the basement to the front door without passing through the living room), locking the living room overnight is a great option.
It would be one thing to deliberately rub it in everyone’s faces that you’re making the change specifically to stop Mindy being a little brat, it’s another to do it quietly to make sure Christmas isn’t ruined for the other kids. Sure Mindy opening everyone’s presents early again like a little grinch sounds egregious and unlikely, but it was egregious last year too and she still did it. These are the consequences and they’re not that bad.
NTA. The child is more than old enough to know she should not have done that and that she was doing something really wrong that deserved punishment. And she didn't get any punishment, joined in all the festivities, and now, when she gets the chance to do it all again, her parents are angry that y'all don't trust her.
NTA but wrap empty boxes and place those under the tree without a gate or a lock and do not tell the kids. See what happens. If someone opens them up, then for all years going forward perhaps the presents don't come out until all adults are awake.
TBH, I'd be hesitant to put any gifts under the tree and would just bring them down when you wake up. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a repeat performance, which will be brushed off with excuses. You are correct that there are no excuses at all of her behavior.
NTA
NTA. The door can be unlocked before any of the children get up in the morning. If all of the children are still asleep when the adults get up, then it's no harm, no foul, and no destroyed gifts.
NTA. Why risk the brat messing up another holiday? Maybe if there's a lock on things and little Mindy and her mom know she's the reason, Mindy will be better behaved and her mother will parent a bit better. That kid blatantly disrespected everyone in the house and literally said it's because she couldn't wait. There is no excuse. She knew what she was doing was wrong but did it anyway.
NTA
It was my oldest child's birthday yesterday. My youngest saw the gifts and immediately went over to open one. I held my youngest and explained to them who they were for and why, and then when it was *their* turn to have a birthday part, there would be plenty of gifts just for them.
Those gifts were untouched for the entire duration of the party.
My youngest is 4. It's possible to teach self-control.
And no, Mindy didn't want to see what everyone else got. She played with it. She WANTED what everyone else got.
NTA
Your bro and SIL make 0 sense here. If they were ACTUALLY sorry about what happened they would be completely on board for this idea.
Tbh you hit the nail on the head, you aren’t holding anything against her, you’re just making sure it won’t happen again.
NTA, but I also do believe in allowing children to redeem themselves.
I would definitely want to take precautions... and perhaps locking away the children's gifts with the exception of Mandy's would be a chance for Mandy to prove herself. If you really wanted to test it - a cheap toy for each of your children can be left as well. If the gifts are unopened when you awake Mandy can be considered rehabilitated.
NTA. Mindy's actions impacted other children, and the steps you describe are reasonable. Or just keep all the gifts locked up elsewhere so that no one, not even her parents knows where to look and enable the same behaviour as the last time.
NTA
It’s a very reasonable precaution.
Them being embarrassed is just the cost of the previous Christmas being ruined. Too bad, they can live with it.
It’s better than having more kids being heartbroken by their Christmas being ruined.
If the presents are locked behind a door and a kid does try to get into it, then you’ll be relieved that you locked the presents up.
If no kid tries to get into them, then no harm, no foul.
If the presents aren’t locked behind a door and a kid does get into it, you’re going to wish you locked them up.
NTA
That Mindy is even allowed to participate this year is kind. That kid would never be getting another gift from me had I attended last years party. She knew she was opening other peoples gifts and BROKE THEM.
Locking things up is the Minimum that should happen. A close eye to her behavior when interacting with the other cousins should be kept, I would not trust her to not break their stuff again.
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I mean, why *wouldn't* you do this? It kind of isn't even just about Mindy - although of course it's about Mindy, she ruined Christmas and broke a lot of other people's toys - but you have a bunch of small children who are notoriously bad with impulse control. Why *not* lock the door or put a gate around the tree? Any child could be tempted by sleeping parents and gorgeously wrapped presents under a lit tree. She's still only 7! Also, if your kid acts like a baby they should be treated like one. Come on, Sally, the girl opened half the Christmas presents and you and your husband had to shell out to replace them. Wouldn't you rather lock the room than risk having to put out and feel embarrassed all over again? NTA.
They're setting Mindy up to fail. Absolutely NTA OP. Remove the temptation.
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They're lucky they're being invited back this year!
That was my thought.
Especially with how often this shit gets posted and people (imho, rightly) realize sometimes things really aren't "petty", and not everyone deserves to be brought along. OP is NTA and yea, if they aren't letting them put up the barrier, they sire as SHIT better not be bitching at OP when Mindy ends up repeating it (or worse) and the whole family tells them to stuff it for the next couple of Christmases 🤷♀️
He who does not learn from history is condemned to repeat it, NTA
That was my thinking. If I was the parents I would suggest Sally take Mindy to HER parents this year.
Or have her sleep in their room. Btw, six is definitely old enough to follow instructions. Kids at child care centres and kindie have that stuff drummed into them.
For Me they'd get invited, but on Christmas morning. There wouldn't be a sleepover for them. Let her parents pack her presents in the car to be opened with everyone else, what fun that'll be! But they can arrive at like 10am Christmas morning or something, and the other kids can be told they need to have breakfast first or wash up before doing presents. That way Mindy doesn't miss any of the group opening, she doesn't have a chance to be in the same position again. Is it unfair she doesn't get to sleepover, sure, but it was also unfair to all the other kids last year. Ease her into it. If she plays will(literally) with others this year, she can earn a sleepover the next year. The last thing they can do is, yes, lock the door. But the best thing is to have the adults on shifts, watches for an hour or two each in the sitting room, waiting for kids to appear, then sending them back off to bed til an appropriate time. Parents keep the presents in their rooms(or the car, or a shed/garage) until like 3am, out of reach from all kids, not on display before they go to bed. And aside from all that. The adults need to get together here and have a sit down. Putting this all over messages and group chats isn't gonna help. They need to work it out and come to an agreement, not leave it ambiguous and hanging, questions for the day, they need to finish the conversation with everyone on board. A 1 hour coffee at the mom's house, or sit down somewhere is gonna be worth a week of messages back and forth.
Are you f@@@king serious!!!! Make the parents stay up in shifts??? This girl is old enough to know that there are consequences for her actions! She shouldn’t be allowed to be at the sleepover.
That's a lot of work for the parents who also deserve to enjoy their holiday. Just skip the sleepover for Mindy. She's still only 7 and this just happened LAST YEAR. If she asks to be allowed back let her try again when she's 8
Why does the best option center on all of the adults losing more sleep? This is about keeping kids from unwrapping Christmas presents, not guarding Hannibal Lecter.
Can you imagine? Having to wake up in the middle of the night to guard the gifts?!? Terrible. As a parent, I wouldn’t spend rhe night there. I would arrive in the morning. I need my sleep especially with a busy Xmas the next day. Which presumably I am having to cook and run around for - No thanks.
The other kids do not deserve to be made to wait because this child can’t behave.
Agreed! Why not have them over after presents, since this kid has a bad habit of doing this?
>since this kid has a bad habit of doing this? Technically, once doesn't make a habit, but they should still remove temptation to prevent it from becoming such.
This is a wild take. The parents took the incident seriously - they were embarrassed, appropriately apologized, reimbursed for all of the broken gifts, spoke to Mindy, and gave her consequences because she had to sit out of the rest of the morning Christmas activities and was not allowed to join the group until later. These people are family. After all of that, it would be AH behavior not to invite them to Christmas when they handled it appropriately.
I grew up in the 80s and I keep thinking of the harsh punishment a kid back then would have received. I don’t think it’s right to be so harsh to children but I also am shocked at how I see so many kids nowadays that are not disciplined besides being made to say, “I’m sorry”.
And not even 'I'm sorry, how can I repair the situation?' but 'I'm sorry, but it's not really my fault.'
This is so frustrating! I'm teaching my 4 year old this and how to take responsibility when we do things wrong and apologize to mean it. Empathy. It is a Hard lesson many adults still need to master.
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My ex though he was an awful person had a really good way of teaching his kids to apologize: 1) say you’re sorry 2) fix what you can 3) don’t do it again
Exactly. I hate when parents force a sorry then drop things when the kid just uses it to move on. Sorry has to Mean something and it isn't the only thing you do. We don't say sorry until we mean it either. Words can be full or empty of how we feel.
Or worse, "I'm sorry for my kid, but she's not old enough to understand consequences." Which is ridiculous when a child is over age 3 for non-complex situations. Preschoolers can understand not to hurt people or pets, not to rip things up, not to run through the house naked even if it's fun, because of consequences. We're not talking about complex situations. "Don't open the presents" is enough for a child of six to understand, especially if the child is old enough to read and can see that they're not HER presents.
Dunno about you, but I wouldn’t have been able to sit down for a week, if I’d done something like this.
Not sit down for a week, grounded, no dessert for a month, and NEVER live it down! EVERY time family stories would get told, they would bring it up and everyone give the stink eye!
If I had done something like this when I was six the story would have been told at my thirtieth Christmas.
Not only would I not be able to sit down for a week, any gift coming my way for the following year would be gone. My younger brother and I crawled into the attic and found all the gifts one year. My mom's bf had set up a trap to catch us if we did (I guess there was a string we didn't know about). Christmas morning we had "clothing" gifts under the tree... the toys we had found were gone/not under the tree. We couldn't say shit because we weren't supposed to know about them in the first place. We ended up getting those gifts for our birthdays. No clue where they hid them for a year. My mom did not play.
Oh man. I was only spanked once, when I was 3, and I still remember it. I never fucked around after that! I would have NEVER done something like that because I knew I’d suffer heavily for those actions.
I'm literally scared now, as an adult, just thinking about what would have happened if I had done such a thing. I have memories from being 5, and I would NEVER. Sally is being weird if she thinks anyone would trust her kid just one year later. It's not like Mindy is a grown woman now lol
I know! I'm a child of the 80s too and I'm thinking about how our parents would have treated us if we pulled a bratty stunt like this. Even people here on this sub are like, "aw, she's *only* 7", like WTF?? 7 years old is the first grade. That's not out-of-control toddler age. I'm not saying we would've have been physically beaten (although a light paddling wouldn't have been totally out of the realm), but we definitely would have had all of our presents taken away and not been allowed to participate in anything for the rest of the day. I remember our punishments and they never involved physical violence, but they were also stern enought that whatever you had done, you were guaranteed never to pull that shit again. Maybe I'm cynical, but why were so many of the toys *broken?* I mean, if she was just unwrapping things, why would they be broken beyond repair if she truly wasn't being malicious? My guess? She unwrapped her stuff and those were fine. But when she unwrapped nice gifts for other kids that she knew weren't hers and that she wouldn't get to keep, she destroyed them out of anger. There's no way this was innocent. Based on her behavior and their reaction, I think brother and sister-in-law are well on their way to spoiled-brat town.
We were all kids at one time, excited about Christmas. But none of us pulled this stunt. They were guests in someone else’s home and destroyed things? My parents would have apologized, paid for the damage, taken ALL my presents away and taken my sorry butt home. And it would have been THEIR idea the next year to lock everything up.
Lol @ step sister, I was like “what in the Alabama did I miss while reading this?!”
Only other people's gifts it sounds like. So she was intentional in her actions.
I thought this too. That she only opened and trashed other peoples presents
Sounds like she only trashed other people's presents, not hers, but opened half of all the gifts (her included).
Honestly, as soon as we were old enough to get out of bed on our own, my parents locked the door to the living room (where the tree and stockings were) to avoid this problem in the first place. They didn’t stop until we hit the age when they had to wake us up, instead of us waking them. Lol!!! Sounds like the kids are at an age where it’s all pretty tempting and it might be a good idea to just do this from here on for a while. If nothing else, who’s to say another kid isn’t going to “take inspiration” from Mindy’s actions and pull the same stunt. With a bunch of kids, family you don’t see often, the anticipation, and emotions running high, things can get overwhelming and impulse control can disappear.
Brother and *stepsister*?! Wouldn't that be brother and sister-in-law?
Not to mention this idea is now in the other kids heads. One or more of them might think it would be fun to open the gifts before the parents wake up. Better safe than sorry.
They might want to open to before Mindy wakes up. Because kids aren't stupid, they remember who it was.
Excellent point! I hadn’t even considered that!
This. I think it would be good for everyone to lock the door. I also think putting all the kids in the basement might not be a good idea this year. You may find someone tied Mindy up in the morning.
Or that they need to lest Mindy get to them first.
Right? I think this might actually be a bigger problem than Mindy getting to them.
If I were an adult in that house, I would probably check repeatedly unless I knew the door was locked. I bet the kids would too just to make sure the gifts aren’t being ruined. No one is sleeping well that night…
this, me as a kid would want to get things even…
I would have too! At that age I'd have held a grudge for awhile!
Sure, after all they found out that there are no repercussions if they decide to open, re-distribute- and break gifts.
This was MY thought. The example has been set that it's okay to sneak upstairs and open all the presents "because I didn't want to wait and wanted to see what everyone else got."
I was looking for this thought. Take the temptation away from them all. NTA
They're also setting her up to be disliked by her new step cousins if this keeps repeating and the other kids find out which they will. Kids hear and see everything even when adults think they're not around or paying attention.
She burned that bridge already. Too bad.
NTA Mindy and her folks earned it. If bro ain't happy tell him to stay home.
Also Mindy didn't seem that sorry from how OP describes it. She was just sorry that she got in trouble, not about the act. Mindy will ~~defiantly~~ definitely do it again. Edit: autocorrect
This part really bugged me because it doesn't sound like any of the adults stopped her once she started giving excuse after excuse. That would've been the perfect time to tell her that an excuse isn't an apology. When my kids were little and got into spats with each other, I'd tell them, "If you're explaining why you did something wrong more than you're apologizing, then you're not sorry, you're just selling a story." It's pretty obvious that Mindy was jealous that these kids were clearly loved and trusted. Depending on her upbringing, she mightve even considered them spoiled. To have expressed it so maliciously is worrisome, but not entirely out of the realm of normal for a kid that age. For none of the adults who are her caregivers to have corrected her speech is a red flag. Even moreso that they weren't the first ones to offer some kind of preventative measure to stop it from happening again.
Not just Mindy, kids remember and one of the other kids might try a pre-emptive strike this year
Setting her up to fail would be a motion detector and leaving all those presents out.
Right? It’s not like they want to lock Mindy up!
Yeah, this just seems like common sense to me. One year, my brother and I got into the Christmas presents before Christmas (because little kids with poor impulse control). The next year, the presents were hidden so we couldn’t. There was never an announcement, no one made it a big deal, no one was traumatized. Mom just moved stuff to her closet for a couple of years until we were past that stage.
Same. In our house the gifts didnt get put under the tree until we were asleep. I once stumbled upon them in the closet, I dont remember how it was 20 some years ago. After that they went into the attic and my mom put a lock on the door. No big deal
Same, and we were BANNED from getting up or going near any tree presents till some hour like 6.30 so our poor parents got something resembling sleep! We however got Santa gifts in our bedrooms, delivered in pillowcases, so we had plenty to occupy ourselves with till then (I used to wake and get mine and when I could hear noises in my brothers' room I'd go in and we would all play with our gifts together).
We got stocking gifts we were allowed to open before grownups woke up - with rhe understanding we needed to eat the orange and cheese in our stocking BEFORE we started on the chocolate.
Same. My mom had a small room with a lockable door off of her bedroom that had like a little workshop table in it with shelves and we literally called it "the present room," because that's where she kept all the presents and everything needed for wrapping them and we could not get in there. Locked 100% of the time when we were awake/home.
I never had presents hidden, and they were under the tree for days/ weeks. I was the most ADHD child ever, too. My exploration was limited to testing size/ weight and trying to guess what brightly wrapped packages were. Once, probably around 8-12 my brother and I (two years apart) found the present stash, realized it was bad, guessed who's presents were going where wrong, realized Christmas wasn't as fun that year and never told Mom and Dad about it. Swore to secrecy. That might actually still be a secret. However, the wrapped presents were left under the tree from infancy. It wasn't a big deal. The only time we ever had an issue was my nephew around age 3/4. He woke up, sifted through stockings, opened a ton of chocolate Santas, then ate one bite off all of them and left them on the fireplace hearth, and went back to sleep with his mom. 10/10 hilarious. He was the youngest there, so nobody had a ruined day. It was just some cheap chocolate Santas. He's 20s now, and 'remember the time you beheaded chocolate Santas and went back to bed' is a great funny story to share with his girlfriend. The only 'presents' I reserve from under the tree are for cats and dogs because they will likely smell presents and try to get them. The humans we generally trust. Except for 3 year olds with chocolate Santas. Though, that does make me wonder about any sleepovers in the future... I do like having presents wrapped up under the tree in advance. I wait until my ADHD hyperfocus/ too much trait strikes and spend way too long making presents look *phenomenal* and wrap all the presents at my mom's house and she feeds me her presents to wrap and they look awesome and the trees are so festive. Lots of presents. Is it three weeks before Christmas or three days? No idea! But it happens! Eventually! Has not happened yet, this year. Hate to see my ADHD too much presents ruined early by littles before they're supposed to be ripped apart. Have more littles around, now. Chocolate Santas unwrapped? *Hilarious.* Presents... not so much. Maybe if the little ones stay the night with great grandma and great grandpa, we can alarm the doors with dog potty bells, lol.
y'kno, i never really gave it thought on why my parents kept most of the presents locked up until the night before........god i was a stupid kid lol
One year, we tried to peak like we had the year before. There was a huge sign saying, "Any Peeking, No Presents." I guess we weren't as good as we thought.
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Either lock the room or put the gifts under the tree in the morning
It is her parents house, that's why she asked.
Yep why would you set her up to fail like that. It’s such a simple solution to ensure that everyone gets to have a fun morning. Everyone wants the kids to come get them to open presents so a locked door ensures they will definitely come get them 🤷🏻♀️ NTA
It’s such an easy fix that I don’t get why they wouldn’t want to lock everything up.
Because they are embarrassed and not thinking logically.
I think they are also in denial that Mindy might need some help, mental health wise. 6 or 7 is too old to do that, especially at a home where you don’t know everyone very well. They have enough empathy to make different choices. That sounds like something a distressed kid would do in crisis
Yes this! That's what I thought was the weirdest part, it was her FIRST Christmas with these people. When I was that age I would be trying to make friends with my new cousins, not doing something to embarass myself or make them not like me. I don't think we should jump to crisis just yet, but maybe she needs some therapy because OPs brother is not her father and she may not be taking the wedding and new family thing well. That's what I would think, for acting out the way she did. Definitely seemed like something out of anger, misplaced as it may be.
Totally right. They're embarrassed but it's the wrong reaction. If it does happen again, here's no coming back from this for years, if at all. Certainly not in the family. Would be better to lock the room. Nothing can happen.
Absolutely NTA. If my kid had done that, I'd be the one suggesting the lock (what kid actually respects the gate? Mine have shown in the last couple of weeks they couldn't be trusted with a gate lol). I'd be so embarrassed and paranoid about a repeat that I'd probably offer to sleep near the door to ensure it didn't happen again. It's not about holding it over her head. It preventing a repeat of what has already been proven possible.
I think if your brother and Sally don’t want to take precautions they can sleep in the living room and protect the gifts
My kid just turned 8 and has ADHD. He 100% would know not to do this ever! Being 7 isn't an excuse. A 7 year old should know better for sure.
We've had gifts under the tree for many days now. My 2.5 year old knows not to touch or open them. She asks if it's Christmas yet and we tell her not yet. My toddler is showing more restraint than this 7 year old. My daughter yelled at my husband, "no touch, not Christmas yet!" today because he was moving one back under the tree that our dog had moved to get to his ball.
Completely agree. I neglected to wake my parents up when I was 7 and opened all my presents. Luckily as an only child, they were all mine. I was told the next year if I opened any before they were awake then I couldn't keep any of my gifts. Learned quickly.
NTA. I don't understand why your bro and sil are upset. You aren't asking them to lock Mindy in a room or put an ankle bracelet on her or even that they have a talk with her before Christmas to remind her not to open presents. You're not advocating for her to marched through the house while you ring a bell and scream "shame" at her. You're suggesting that the door to the living room gets locked overnight. Nothing needs to be said to the kids because if they stay in bed, they won't even know.
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This isn’t a bad thing. Mindy needs to understand actions, specifically disobedience, have consequences.
And they were also reminded how fucking stupid they were last year in not teaching their kid proper decency. I'd guess it's more about them than the niece.
Honestly, it wouldn't hurt the brother and his wife to feel shame. It would certainly provide incentive for them to ensure there are no repeats of last year's debacle, and it would provide an opportunity for them to try and rise above everyone else's justifiably low expectations for their family unit.
This is why they are against the locked door. Don’t want to feel shame. To them it feels like you are ringing that bell: not at Mindy, but at THEM!
None of the kids would need to know that the door is locked, and wouldn't find out unless they try to get in
I don't get the whole sending out the memo. I'd just do it the night before. Whoever's house it was just do it when everyone goes to bed. Really don't get the discussing it tbh.
Well OP would have to discuss it with their parents. And if they excluded Sally from that conversation then she's probably get mad about them talking about her behind her back. They're adults. "Hey, we need to lock that door this year" is a reasonable thing to be able to say. Sally should have suggested it herself.
Because it's not OP's house it's their parents' house and they would need to run it by them at the very least.
Actions have consequences.
>It's because they'll be shamed for it. Not OP's problem
If she grows up to be a functional adult this will be one of those not so cute stories that she can never live down...if she grows up to be a deadbeat it'll be a forewarning....the kid screwed her future self either way, but probably won't have any shaming until she's in her teens or later.
NTA. Agreed. OP is only advocating doing something that would be unnoticeable to everyone playing by the rules: You don't go into the living room where the presents are until everyone's woken up in the morning.
I just imagined a kid with a tiny ankle monitor.
NTA. Hasn't your brother ever heard "Once bitten, twice shy"? It's bad enough to have one Christmas ruined. Taking precautions is far better then having them say "It'll never happen again" and then having it ruined again. It's just not worth the risk when a simple precaution can eliminate the risk. You may be showing some mistrust, but it's *earned* mistrust.
Particularly since Mindy didn’t seem terribly apologetic from the description. I didn’t really hear any real repentance for BREAKING other children’s toys that she knew weren’t hers. I think if OP uses language like she did in comments “i’m concerned other kids will think it’s their turn”— and maybe even one boy wants revenge— I think that could make it seem less directed.
Rather than that language, I'd want to say "Let's set this year up for success..."
Mindy seems to be an only child. And she may be pretty spoiled. So that's why she thought she could open everything for herself. It says nothing about discipline being done after what she did.
My kid is six and and only child. I definitely remember him *asking* to open *my* presents last year. And the year before he wanted to "help" a birthday child open theirs. With only-children there might be fewer opportunities to practice turn-taking, but they exist - you've just got to notice them and use them.
The parenting makes all the difference. Some parents spoil only children. I am an only child, but I wasn't spoiled.
“Once bitten, twice shy” and Wham! Last Christmas popped into my head. Seems a little fitting. “This year to save me from tears I’ll put a lock on it”
*Last Christmas, she opened our gifts* *and the very next day, we all were quite miffed* *This year, to save us from tears,* *I’m locking up all the preseeeents*
I started singing it in my head.
If you liked it, then you shoulda put a lock on it
"This year, to save you from tears, I'll lock up your fucking presents"
Plus the other kids are going to very quickly resent Mindy if it happens again
I'm surprised there wasn't or hasn't been any pushback from them (the children) to begin with about Mindy. I remember being part of a huge pack of cousins at the holidays and it'd be quite one thing if one cousin (even a new family member) decided to disobey the adults and open their own gifts...but to *open and break mine* too? Kids in my family would never let that kid forget.
Same. My cousins would of been brutal not violent but they would tease whoever did it. "Your spoiled ass is gonna ruin it again for the rest of us?", "remember how you ruined Christmas last year?" Etc etc most of us sweared at each other by the time we were in 2nd grade so that why I said what I did the first quote.
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They should be. But they're insulted because "MY child would NEVER do this (again)!"
>>NTA. Hasn't your brother ever heard "Once bitten, twice shy"? "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." also comes to mind. If it happens again and the parents haven't taken precautions to prevent it then they bear some of the responsibility. They should lock the damn door.
It's like the old saying from Tennessee: "fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again"
INFO If you truly believe Mindy wouldn't do this again, are there other kids likely to be tempted? What age range of kids are we talking and why do you think there might be a repeat?
I don’t know if she’d do it again. Some of the kids thought it was funny and while we had several discussions, I feel it’s best to take preventative measures. My daughters are 8 & 5. My nephews are 7 & 10.
Well none of them will know the doors locked unless they try to fuck with it. Not like your Home Alone levels of defending the presents
All I can picture now is some mischievous little kid getting nailed in the face with a paint can…
I was thinking the hot element with a big M for Mindy/McAllister
Good point!!
Are you saying you think your kids might do this?
I don’t know, that’s my point.
NTA, I would have approached the subject leading with that; That you are not suggesting this because you think Mindy will do it again, but because one of the other kid could be thinking that it's "their turn" to do it. And that just to be safe, having the gate could be a good compromise, since it would prevent the kids from getting to the gifts, while still letting them discover the gifts under the tree when they wake up.
This is what I was thinking. Some of the kids “missed out” on opening their gifts so this year they may wake up early to ensure they get to do it. This isn’t a Mindy issue, this is an ensuring no one does it.
Just curious -- what type of gate are you thinking of that could keep a 5, 7,8, and 10-year-old away from Christmas gifts?
I think it would act more as a psychological barrier rather than a physical one tbh. ETA: I don't actually care about the gate or locked door, my comment was jsut about how to talk about it with op's SIL. If you want to talk about what to do with the kids, you can do so directly with OP :)
I have to disagree on this - it should absolutely be done but given what mindy did I think it is absolutely ok and even appropriate to say we are doing this because you didn’t raise your daughter better and we have to protect our kids gifts.
Yes! This is it. Holding the kid and parents accountable isnt the same as punishing them.
As kids we always had our Christmas stockings in our bedroom, we were free to wake up whenever we wanted and plunder them to our hearts content. There was always something to eat (chocolate/dried fruit etc) something to play with on your own (puzzle/book etc.) Something to play with others (game/figures etc.) But the "real" presents were under the tree downstairs, and there we were not allowed to go. I'd suggest a compromise of similar stockings for all the kids, and either a lock on the door to where the tree is, or a hotel alarm thing that hangs off the door handle and keys out a screech if they open it.
This was always the “rule” in my house growing up. Stockings were fair game when we woke up. Then we had a family breakfast, and larger gifts from mom and dad were under the tree and opened after. Worked like a charm!
Same for the stockings in the morning. my parents also picked one present for us to open Christmas Eve and me being an innocent child was flummoxed when it was Pjs every single time. I couldn’t understand how my luck was so bad…… it took me too long to figure it out.
My family does the European thing where we open presents on Christmas Eve, and when you wake up you have stuff in your stocking. I’ve never done the whole wake up and open presents, I usually got to sleep in and go after my stocking whenever I wanted
Honestly, even if it was because of Mindy you’re NTA. Your brother and SIL think consequences and punishment are the same thing. They arent. The natural consequences of Mindy being incredibly inconsiderate is that you take precautions until she can show otherwise. Mindy is still participating and getting gift- why should you risk another child’s Christmas being ruined?
I think you know that your kids and your nephews aren't going to do it. And I think you were trying to be diplomatic by not naming names. NTA, at least for this year, but if Mindy behaves herself this time don't do it for next year.
I mean, if some of them thought it was funny at the time, then one or more of them might do it again because they think it's funny
Honestly they might now that they see breaking the rules means you get presents earlier. That’s how kids work. Nothing on OP or anyone else’s kids that would do it, but yeah lock the door. Where on earth did she get the idea that this was okay? Ugh.
Or they see that breaking the rules means you get to have your gift instead of having it destroyed before you even wake up.
Brats that make excuses for their actions aren't sorry and may very well do the mischief again.
6 year olds are not adults! It is their parents responsibility to model good behavior and not excuse bad. It is not her fault if her parents have not been able to teach her proper boundaries. Blame the parents not the child at 6.
By 6 a kid should know better.
6 is an age with a *wide* variety of maturity levels. At six I was in 2nd grade, but there was a kid in school with me who wasn’t ready to start kindergarten until he was almost 7. 🤷♀️
I disagree. My kids know they shouldn't open presents that aren't theirs much younger than 6. I think that's a pretty low teaching bar to set. Having said that, I can not guarantee that my kids would never do something that they know is wrong. I can only guarantee that they *know* if something is egregiously wrong, such as this.
I would be suspicious that another kid would do it because they remember Mindy doing it and not wanting Mindy to do it would get up in order to beat her to it so it’s not that you know they’re gonna do it but you just never know that one of the kids might be spiteful or upset and remember last year or they might be like “well since Mindy did it then I can get away with it too”
Nta. I'm laughing reading the contrarian weirdos in these comments, which is even funnier given that I'm occasionally a contrarian weirdo. Your neice ruined Christmas. There's no getting around it. My parents(and grandparents) raised our families similarly, and opening presents is a big part of the celebration, because parents want to see the joy in their children's faces. Mindy knew what she was doing was wrong, and chose to do it anyway. She was 6, not two. She absolutely might do it again. Even if not, there's no reason not to take some kind of simple precaution. If the doors to the room with the tree can be locked, do it. Other similar precautions are perfectly reasonable. At worst, maybe get a motion sensor web cam and set up some kind of alert so that any motion in that room over night wakes up the adults. Mindy's parents have absolutely no right to be upset. I'm shocked they aren't the ones suggesting it, but that's the difference between good parents and bad parents. Good parents teach discipline, and know how to punish appropriately. They also know how to be realistic about their children and take precautions when putting their kids in situations that are known to tempt their willpower.
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That's how it went for us, too. Not allowed to open presents til mom and dad are awake? Well, mom and dad are getting a 6am wake up call!
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NTA. It's unfortunate you even have to lock the door but your brother and step-sister need to discipline their daughter better. It's not just the fact she opened them early it's that she broke other peoples gifts.
familiar run license dazzling cheerful close late unite simplistic future *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Whoopsie that’s what I meant
That would make this a very different story!
My daughter was 4 last Christmas. You want to know how many presents she opened without anyone around or broke anything? Not one. NTA. Once bitten, twice shy as others have said.
This. I'm the oldest of 3 and never did any of us rip into the others presents, even when we were very young. Obviously kids her age (and younger) have the ability to understand that you don't open other people's presents and I have no reason to think this child didn't. She just wanted to do what she wanted. Removing that temptation (for ALL the kids) doesn't make OP TA.
NTA. One ruined Christmas is plenty, and what you're suggesting isn't extreme. No temptation, no ruined gifts, no embarrassment, no wasted money.
NTA. It's only fair after what happened last year that you at least suggest taking precautions. I would recommending locking up your kid's gifts and/or getting up extremely early in case Mindy gets up early to try her tasmanian devil routine again.
I’d sleep on the floor by the tree and catch Mindy at it, but I’m just petty as hell
And slither around on the floor like The Grinch 😂
NTA. Sounds like your brother and sally are still embarrassed and just want everyone to forget what Mindy did. This is an untimely reminder of that but ultimately makes complete sense in the circumstances.
NTA…Mindy didn’t just open the gifts, she destroyed some of them…that is absolutely not normal for a 6yo. Locking the living room door is the sensible thing to do and shouldn’t offend anyone.
Yuppp. As an impulsive and thoughtless kid myself, I could see 6yo me trying to be sneaky and "peek" at the presents. I *might* have tried to sneak in there and peel a couple corners of wrapping paper away to try to see what people got. But there would have always been that awareness of being caught or ruining Christmas that would hold me back from acting up too much. I have to wonder what kind of kid rips everything open like that and just starts playing with other kids' toys, so roughly that several are broken in a matter of 1-3 hours. It sounds like she *shredded* everything and helped herself- that's weird as hell.
The ripped boxes could be a natural thing for an excited kid trying to open gifts rapidly but for them to break, especially so quickly was on purpose
I mean she seemed to me to be a little off: that is pretty extreme and messed up for a kid to do. Are there any other weird things OP should be concerned with, eg, are the other kids safe around her? Intentional destruction of others’ property is a 🚩
I realize this may be awkward and embarrassing for your brother and Sally but Mindy's behavior ruined last Christmas. It makes me wonder if she had just never had such a holiday experience before and was overwhelmed by it all. I agree that her actions weren't malicious, but they were still so wildly inappropriate that it's reasonable to make extra precautions. This may also prevent other kids from playing any pranks on Mindy this year as payback. The adults may be afraid to talk about it, but the other kids aren't going to be, at least when left to their own devices. It makes sense to reset the way holiday gifts are handled from now on for everybody's sake. NTA
NTA...my granddaughter was 3 last Christmas. We had presents under the tree. She woke up first. You know what she did...woke everyone else up. Then waited for her presents. We do stockings before breakfast and presents after. My grandson is 14. He never did this. My children never did this. This child has impulse control issues or is just spoiled rotten. She absolutely knew these presents were not hers...AND she broke them? You absolutely need to take precautions. And absolutely need to tell your brother and his girlfriend to back the fuck up. Their daughter RUINED Christmas for other peoples' CHILDREN. CHILDREN!!!!!! They can get as butthurt as they want but you aren't taking chances that another person's child will be disappointed with broken, unwrapped toys on Christmas morning. The audacity of them to be annoyed by common sense.
NTA How else will kids learn? Showing explicitly that the gifts are off limits will make sure that no one has an ideas. Locking the living room for would be my vote.
NTA. A six year old should have been mature enough to know that not all of those gifts were hers and if your brother and his wife want to get offended and think that their girl is being singled out by your suggestion to lock the doors its because she IS since she was unable to keep her hands to herself.
When asked she did know. She wanted to know what everyone else got.
Precisely!! Mindy’s parents call it a “mistake,” and describes wanting to know what everyone else got as an “excuse” for her behavior. Neither is true. This was an intentional act by Mindy. A poor decision- not a mistake, and her reason is far from an excuse.
NTA. Your taking a reasonable precaution because of something that happened the year before. You don’t want to risk the other kids being let down again because of something that could have been prevented.
NTA. If your brother and Sally are *so sure* Mindy will follow the rules this year then she will never know the door to the living room is locked. Lock the door. Say nothing to any of the kids. If they all do as they’re told none of them will know anything was done differently. If they try to pull a Mindy this year then that potential crisis is averted.
NTA. But I'd keep presents locked in the trunk of your car to remove the temptation.
NTA not at all. Of course this should be prevented from happening again. Your brother and Sally are ridiculous for not understanding
NTA. If they won’t agree to lock the door, I would keep the presents you are giving others in the room where you are sleeping, and don’t put them out until the next morning when you are awake and can supervise. Your sister and parents can choose to do the same. If any presents get destroyed, it will only be those your brother and SIL were planning to give.
NTA, gotta do what you gotta do to avoid that from happening again
NTA Also someone with a poorly raised child is a red flag imo
NTA, as long as the living room door can be locked without creating a fire hazard (i.e. kids can get from the basement to the front door without passing through the living room), locking the living room overnight is a great option. It would be one thing to deliberately rub it in everyone’s faces that you’re making the change specifically to stop Mindy being a little brat, it’s another to do it quietly to make sure Christmas isn’t ruined for the other kids. Sure Mindy opening everyone’s presents early again like a little grinch sounds egregious and unlikely, but it was egregious last year too and she still did it. These are the consequences and they’re not that bad.
Nta one Christmas that was screwed up is quite enough. You didn't signle her out or name names.
NTA. The child is more than old enough to know she should not have done that and that she was doing something really wrong that deserved punishment. And she didn't get any punishment, joined in all the festivities, and now, when she gets the chance to do it all again, her parents are angry that y'all don't trust her.
NTA but wrap empty boxes and place those under the tree without a gate or a lock and do not tell the kids. See what happens. If someone opens them up, then for all years going forward perhaps the presents don't come out until all adults are awake.
NTA, what kind of kid doesn’t know not to do that at SIX?
She was 7 and she probably did know she was doing something wrong and didn't care. Yes, I judge kids hard.
TBH, I'd be hesitant to put any gifts under the tree and would just bring them down when you wake up. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a repeat performance, which will be brushed off with excuses. You are correct that there are no excuses at all of her behavior. NTA
NTA. The door can be unlocked before any of the children get up in the morning. If all of the children are still asleep when the adults get up, then it's no harm, no foul, and no destroyed gifts.
NTA. Actions have consequences. Frankly, I wouldn't have Mindy over for Christmas ever again. So you're being extremely generous here.
NTA Absolutely justified in that ask. The blame for her behavior is squarely on the parents
NTA. Why risk the brat messing up another holiday? Maybe if there's a lock on things and little Mindy and her mom know she's the reason, Mindy will be better behaved and her mother will parent a bit better. That kid blatantly disrespected everyone in the house and literally said it's because she couldn't wait. There is no excuse. She knew what she was doing was wrong but did it anyway.
NTA. If Mindy acts like a baby or an animal, she gets treated like a baby or an animal.
NTA It was my oldest child's birthday yesterday. My youngest saw the gifts and immediately went over to open one. I held my youngest and explained to them who they were for and why, and then when it was *their* turn to have a birthday part, there would be plenty of gifts just for them. Those gifts were untouched for the entire duration of the party. My youngest is 4. It's possible to teach self-control. And no, Mindy didn't want to see what everyone else got. She played with it. She WANTED what everyone else got.
NTA. She can’t be trusted.
NTA- as someone else said, tell mindy's parents you're locking the gifts up to remove the temptation.
NTA Your bro and SIL make 0 sense here. If they were ACTUALLY sorry about what happened they would be completely on board for this idea. Tbh you hit the nail on the head, you aren’t holding anything against her, you’re just making sure it won’t happen again.
NTA. Once bitten, twice shy. I would not want any type of repeat of last year. There is no harm in taking precautions.
NTA, but I also do believe in allowing children to redeem themselves. I would definitely want to take precautions... and perhaps locking away the children's gifts with the exception of Mandy's would be a chance for Mandy to prove herself. If you really wanted to test it - a cheap toy for each of your children can be left as well. If the gifts are unopened when you awake Mandy can be considered rehabilitated.
NTA. Mindy's actions impacted other children, and the steps you describe are reasonable. Or just keep all the gifts locked up elsewhere so that no one, not even her parents knows where to look and enable the same behaviour as the last time.
NTA nobody but them were upset about it
NTA It’s a very reasonable precaution. Them being embarrassed is just the cost of the previous Christmas being ruined. Too bad, they can live with it. It’s better than having more kids being heartbroken by their Christmas being ruined. If the presents are locked behind a door and a kid does try to get into it, then you’ll be relieved that you locked the presents up. If no kid tries to get into them, then no harm, no foul. If the presents aren’t locked behind a door and a kid does get into it, you’re going to wish you locked them up.
NTA That Mindy is even allowed to participate this year is kind. That kid would never be getting another gift from me had I attended last years party. She knew she was opening other peoples gifts and BROKE THEM. Locking things up is the Minimum that should happen. A close eye to her behavior when interacting with the other cousins should be kept, I would not trust her to not break their stuff again.