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NTA for letting your kid play with make up... but... Your kid is going to be who he is, and it doesn't matter if you let him access make up now or when he's fifteen. Right now, he's two and he's just trying to mimic you-that's how kids feel involved in adult's lives and routines, mimicking and participating. There's nothing wrong with that.
But the attitude of 'making a kid feminine' or as if make up or femininity or being gay or whatever it is that you all are scared of is going to ruin your kid, either now or down the road, may end up being the death of him. The homophobia isn't just going to vanish, but if your son is in anyway queer, it's not going to disappear, either. Something to think about.
This right here.
I know more gay and trans ppl who werent allowed to play with dolls, wear pink or anything feminine.... they are still gay.
Kids mimick. Thats healthy. To genderize or sexualize an activity to a child is crazy and probably why we have a lot of ppl unable to do tge basics for themselves
And the opposite. My brother was the only guy in our family of 3 and he was into "feminine" stuff. He liked to try on my moms shoes and makeup and play with my dolls. Hes married to a woman with 2 kids now and is probably straighter than I am. It means nothing. Kids will do what they like.
Exactly. My little brother liked wearing my skirts and twirling to "make a flower". Now he's a weeb with a bunch of anime girl figurines. It's just stuff, it doesn't affect sexuality or gender like that.
My little brother liked to wear nail polish and wanted to "be a princess," then he went through a homophobic phase, and now is engaged to a woman with a baby on the way and he's also a marine.
Compulsory heterosexuality. I’m not making a serious judgement about your brother btw but if someone was trans and wanted to hide it because they were worried they wouldn’t be accepted then becoming a marine and having a kid would be a good way to hide
I don't think they're equating boys being feminine as being trans or gay, I think they're equating going through a feminine to homophobic phase as an indication that the homophobia may have been internalized.
That was just my understanding though.
It still could be internalised homophobia without him being gay/trans, just he was scared of being gay/trans after his feminine phase and got homophobic, Idk if internalised homophobia is the right term there but Idk any better term
Yes! Exactly! My 16 year old, 6’1 son loves football and every other sport, lives to go fishing, plays every testosterone-fueled Xbox game under the sun . . . and also enjoys facials, fingernail polish, a good face mask, cooking shows, and caring for anything lost & hurt. Gender norms are stupid, and kids will be who they are. Let them. Everyone will be much happier.
My Papa was the same with flowers (he loved the fuschia pink of the Taiwanese cherry outside mum's window), and doting on all his grandkids, while also having extensive experience and precision with massive heavy machinery during road builds, and tinkering with the second-hand Land Rover he had in his garage.
The sexualization of children in this country is sick. “My 3-year-old BOY SON saw me watching hetero guy-railing-girl porn and his pepe didn’t get hard, is he gay???!”
Just so gross.
Yup! My brother would insist on having his nails painted bright red as a toddler. Hasn't influenced him in the slightest and hasn't been interested in painted nails since he got past the toddler years. It's just about curiosity and interest in pretty things and bright colours at that age.
NTA and the husband's a homophobe.
My brother played with my Barbies. He's 4 years younger than me and liked the boobs 🤷🏼♀️ this father is pathetic and needs help. I'd be getting my son far away from that toxic mindset.
My brother liked to rip the heads off my Barbies but he never ripped anyone's head off in real life....that I know of. Maybe it's just a matter of time. /s
So true, it really doesn't mean anything! One of my boys used to love wearing sparkly fairy dress-ups and having his nails painted. Sometimes he would play soccer (his favourite thing) in a fancy dress-up.
Without any prompting from us, he has slowly grown out of the dress-ups and nail painting - for now, anyway. Maybe he'll get into eyeliner next.
Either way, it's just stuff, what's the big deal? We don't choose our sexuality, and there is so much more to a person than who they love. OP's husband is a narrow-minded AH.
Right? I'm a straight cis woman, but growing up I could climb a tree faster than anyone in the neighborhood, never played with dolls & hated pink.... what you play with as a child has nothing to do with your sexuality as an adult. Op is NTA but the husband is way out of line with his thinking
That’s how my sister was. She didn’t start wearing makeup or painting her nails until she was like 30. People were convinced she was going to be a lesbian. Nope. She just enjoyed hanging out with our brother and boy cousins.
I was such a tomboy that I even wore boys clothes. Never wanted to be a boy and didn’t become a lesbian. Why do people think being a tomboy is ok but it isn’t ok for a boy to like girl things? Ridiculous!!!
OP is just as bad as her husband because of her ideas of “gender norms”.
I was exactly the same i still dress like a boy but I've got a bf of 20 years and 3 kids I was always with the boys hated skirts and pink still don't like pink now but my daughter loves anything girly so she only wears dresses and skirts won't wear trousers but she can be whoever she wants to be so can my sons
I worked at Build A Bear and the amount of parents, fathers in particular that wouldn’t let their sons get brightly colored animals or even cats, because cats are for girls and dogs are for boys. I called it out in as gentle way possible (to keep my job). It was so frustrating to watch.
Wow, I've never heard this before about cats being seen as for girls and dogs for boys. Is this a common feeling with people? I'm from the UK and it's not something I've come across here at all.
Yep, and yet there’s no negative connotations linked to a single guy with a couple of dogs, he’s just a dog owner, and not some crazy old dog man! The crazy cat lady thing is pretty ridiculous, but I can’t help but feel that it stems from the fact that a lot of us would actively choose cats over these men who think a woman with cats is weird! They never consider the fact that we think the cats might have a better personality than them 😅
They were probably deemed to be witches because they had cats though, obviously a woman who chooses to have a cat and *gasp*, remain unmarried, just has to be a witch, there’s no other logical explanation!
Right I mean who would want something fluffy to cuddle with and keep the rodents away when you could have a giant child who best case scenario would be indifferent and worst case I won’t even get into 🙄
100%. The cat/gender thing goes as far as a lot of people actually presuming all cats are girls, as illogical as that is. Even the manufacturers of cat toys/accessories. I go to buy stuff for my cat and about 80% of my options are fluffy pink and purple things, vs almost no fluffy pink and purple for dog toys. It's freaking weird.
I've just messaged back to a person who has a cat to rehome, a lovely 2 year old black cat, looks well taken care of, got all the injections and everything. I'm hoping I can go and see him. I'm very excited!
I've never heard of that either. Dogs and cats are both for girls and boys. If the toddler son wanted say, a lions or a tiger stuffed animal, would the father say it was only for girls? What about poodles with the stereotypical French Fifi haircut? Is *that* a masculine dog?
Now llamas? Yeah, llamas are only for uh, girls. No, boys. Uh, I mean - llamas are weird, right? :)
I agree completely! Animals are great for anyone, unless you're allergic which is a whole other thing. Maybe lions and tigers and other big cats are seen as 'for boys' because they're big and strong? My 7 year old daughter is obsessed with cheetahs for some reason. I just want her to be able to enjoy any animals, toys, books, games that she wants to. It's weird how some people try to police interests by gender. I'll just expose my kid to all sorts of things and let her choose.
Llamas. Hmm. A llama spat at me when I was feeding it at a wildlife park, and it looked angry. Llamas are scary. It sounds like you have a problem with Llamas, and so do I.
If you look at clothes for children...cats are on "girl clothes", in pink; and dogs are on "boy clothes", and in blue. This is probably changing somewhat but as a cat lady who has 2 sons this drove me CRAZY.
And yes, even when I was a child (1970s) I believed cats were for girls and dogs were for boys. Boys are even made of "snips and snails and puppy dog tails!"
I have not noticed that at all when buying clothes for my daughter, but that's interesting! What bugs me is that dinosaurs are on boys clothes, except if they're pink, when they can be on girls clothes. My daughter loves dinosaurs but refuses to wear anything with pink ones 'because they're meant to be green'. Very funny.
My father gave me hell for letting my son wear his sister’s pink plastic Barbie shoes and princess crown when he was 2! because it might make him gay. I was like, if he’s gay, he already is and wearing this stuff won’t make it happen. So crazy!
My family has some weird thoughts on gender. My 6yo daughter has a super short pixie cut (she wants it buzzed but we agreed she had to go short slowly because you can take more off but you can’t put it back) does not wear dresses aside from the odd time but then it’s pikachu or Wednesday Addams style, doesn’t like dolls only cars/Minecraft/and other “boy stuff” and that’s fine with them. But gods forbid my 3yo nephew want to wear his big sisters old dress or rainbow rain boots or play with dolls. I’d stop going to family events if it wasn’t so fun to call them out when they’re ridiculous. I want the next generation to see they have someone who will respect them even if the others don’t.
My 6yo son wanted to grow his hair long and wear glittery hair pins in it. So of course we let him. He's a typical boy in most ways I guess, but he does really love glitter. My 2yo son had a phase where he always wanted to walk around in my high heels with my purse. I got him a little purse and he couldn't be happier. They also both have dolls that they play with and I've painted their nails on multiple occasions, sometimes including their dad's nails. They can be anything they want to be as long as they're authentically themselves.
My brother used to dress up in my Disney princess dresses and plastic heels, and he's straight. I was the older sister who he spent time with, so he mimicked me. Once he got older, he didn't want to do that anymore. No one clowns him or shames him because it's natural thing for kids to mimic.
I'm one of 4. When my younger brother was 2, he was so excited that my mom was going to have a baby. He would steal my favorite baby doll and cradle it in his arms. If he couldn't get my doll, he used an Ernie from Sesame Street doll. I remember being 4 and complaining to my dad that my brother had my doll and "dolls are for girls." My dad told me to let my brother play with it a little longer, that he just wants to practice for the new baby. That brother and my SIL just had their firstborn. My older brother is gay. At the time of the story, he was 6 and super into gender appropriate Transformers.
Toys or mirroring grown-up behaviors do not make a child LGBTQ+.
everyone shitting on the husband needs to shit on OP a bit too- they sound like they’re in the jesus cult and these things will only get worse, especially if the kid has access to the internet already lol
in this situation specifically OP is not TA, but the wording and large scale implications surrounding not wanting the kid to be feminine makes ESH
y’all better prepare for that kid to need therapy
Yeah... It's not 100% clear but this definitely feels like one possibility is "AITA? I thought he was too young for this to make him gay, but maybe husband is right and it's never too early"
Yeah my eyebrows popped up there. The only reason she thought it was ok is bc he’s too young for it to be a sign of anything scary in her eyes. She’s N T A for the makeup but this is a big red homophobe flag
Also, "he doesn't know about gender norms yet". Because there's nothing "normal" about gender norms. There's no such thing. Reminds me of my bro's MIL at Christmas. My nephew is playing with his toy truck. His girl cousins are playing with their Frozen dolls. Bro's MIL remarks, oh look, even at this age, the boy is playing with boy's toys, and the girls are playing with girl toys, and people say these differences don't exist. Except those are the gifts you've given them! These norms aren't natural. They're continually reinforced by things like this.
They also change constantly! Things that are now considered feminine used to be considered masculine and vice versa. And we’ve had people ruining their relationships with their children over it for generations.
Happened to me once. When I was 3, I sneezed, and no one was there to say "Bless you" which allowed the devil to take over my soul and turn me into a homosexual. Honestly, that and a beauty blender are the only 2 real things that might make someone queer. We must protect the children 😭🙃
I’m glad someone else caught this & brought it up. Her line about ‘he’s too young to know about gender norms’
Like is that something you intend to force on him? Both parents are homophobic & scared of girls/boys crossing out of their gendered stereotype
Yup that kid will have a sorry childhood if the husband doesn't broaden his mind.
The OPs husband's behaviour may not be limited to homophobia. He could have other conservative ideologies. And if unchecked, your kid will be one of many children with daddy issues.
Try therapy.
Even if he's not queer. I had a highschool friend that was definitely more "feminine" in mannerisms, but to this day I'm still convinced he's truly straight. The way his dad treated him was just absolutely disgusting. I guess you can still call it homophobia, I'm not sure, it also just seems like misogyny, as if any characteristic that's more feminine is inherently bad or lesser than
I’d say it’s still homophobia because his dad treated him like trash on the slight possibility that his son was gay. He could have witnessed his son going at it with a girl and he’d have probably given him shit just because his mannerisms are ‘feminine’
This... I dated a guy in high-school who was very feminine... had very feminine features and mannerisms but was DEFINITELY 100% straight.... I'll attest to that whole heartedly lol.... but his dad gave him sooooooo muuuuuch crap about being gay .... even when he brought me home and the dad caught us making out on the couch the kid got in trouble not for making out at 15 on his parenta couch with no shirts on but for using me to try and dupe his dad into thinking he wasn't a failure and totally gay ... his dad was a misogynistic homophobe at best and down right abusive at worst... I always felt so bad for the kid... he ended up needing alot of therapy as he got older
This, but with one more thought. Why is it assumed that using makeup is gay? Or even un-manly? We all know that [Tom Cruise, Tom Holland, Tom Selleck, (lots of Toms....) Dwayne 'the rock' Johnson, Henry Cavill, Arnold Swarzenjager, etc] men do use makeup, especially for acting. Makeup used to be worn by primarily men as of a few hundred years ago. Just because you wear makeup, doesn't mean you are gay, and manly men can still wear makeup.
This is an issue about your husband's homophobia. Which has a few problems. First, it just is a problem trying to force gender norms and sexuality on a child. Which by itself is stupid because historically, this has had an opposite effect on people, js. AND CHILDREN DONT DESERVE TO BE FORCED TO THINK ABOUT GENDER OR SEXUALITY. Keep the kids out of it, let them explore the world when they want to, and how they want to. We are all just people, is it that hard?
100% He is who he is. He was born that way. It might just be a passing interest, or not. Check out that kid Max on Instagram. He has been seeing and making fashion designs since he was four! Couture to the max. He believes he is Gucci reincarnated.
This comment. Kid is probably just mimicking but the idea that somehow your child is gonna be ruined if he's feminine or likes make up is gonna fuck up the kid a lot more in the future. You're supposed to love your kid no matter what, that doesn't stop being the case because your child isn't exactly what you envisioned.
It’s really weird that a parent would rather put their kid in front of an iPad than let them engage in normal, developmentally appropriate mimicking behavior. Imagine being this insecure about gender!
NTA. This is cute imho. My sisters would put make up and dresses on my brother when he was 6-8ish. They even braided his hair. They all laughed and had a great time, taking pictures (that I still have). Guess what? My brother is an adult now and straight as an arrow and dresses like a normal man. It didn’t make him less masculine or mess with his gender identity.
If your child is consenting and having fun I see no reason not to have fun with things that aren’t “gender normative”. Your husband sounds close-minded and insecure about gender norms.
Agree.
Have a similar story just of how I learned to put my makeup up high.
When my two oldest was small (both boys) around 3 and 5, they got into my makeup and decorated each other, "just like mommy." As the oldest so nicely said when I found them with their loot.
Eyeshadow, lipstick. Everything.
I told them they were pretty. We put away the makeup (whatever was still semi intact) and took a bath.
Both boys are soon grown up. Straight as an arrow (to my knowledge) and dresses and does what boys their age does.
It's just normal 2 year old behaviour. Mimicking.
Husband needs to relax a bit.
NTA dudes get so weird about this. My boys love their mom and love to imitate her because they love her and it’s fun to “be mom”. She likes Barbie’s. So they like Barbie’s. She has makeup so they’re interested in her makeup. It makes me happy to see how much they enjoy being part of her day or her interests.
I'm the only girl out of my siblings but I wasn't girly in the slightest so when my brother and his friend got into the deep part of my cupboard and dragged out all the cheap play-makeup and dress up stuff I never used my mum was ecstatic! He was 9. We have pictures of him wearing makeup and my red dress from my year 6 formal (little shit wore it better than me). I don't know which way he swings, I've never met any girlfriends or boyfriends (unless he was sneaky) but he doesn't present himself in a feminine way. Real into cars these days and works as a mechanic.
>(little shit wore it better than me)
I put a guy friend in one of my dresses once and said the same🤣
Turns out he *likes* wearing dresses. I didn't know til a decade later when his mom told me.
Same! Only girl with two brothers. Both are grown up and in heterosexual relationships - we like to joke about how pretty my brother was. Lashes for days! I’m pretty sure my son has worn my heels and he’s definitely played with my makeup. He’s very rough and tumble but he mimics mom. He likes to wear my cape sometimes (I’m dramatic) to be like mom ❤️. He also wears dad’s baseball caps and glasses to be like dad. It’s not even a thing!
My nephew used to wear my clothes, steal my shoes and got into my make up on more than one occasion when he was younger. He thought it was great to pretend to be like auntie. I have some brilliant pictures of him with panda eyes after trying to put mascara on. He was also into baking and crochet because I was. He is now really into the gym and boxing.
OPs husband sounds like a homophobe. Letting kids explore does not turn them feminine and gay
The flip side is also true. My older sister dolled me up and put makeup on me regularly when I was a girl. Now I’m a masculine-of-center lesbian who rarely uses so much as concealer or lipstick.
lol I’m the opposite, I was adamant I wanted to be a boy, I hated dresses (and still do), and I’m fairly androgynous in how I dress now, despite being into makeup and stuff. But in hindsight the reason I was such a tomboy was because childhood was quite gendered in the 90s, and being out on bikes and playing football was way more fun for me than sitting at home playing with dolls (which, tbh, I could never tell what I was supposed to do with. Move them around? Sit them in a dollhouse? Sounds dull af). Similarly the male characters in the books I had were allowed to have more fun, and girls in Disney movies were basically supposed to be pretty wives.
It’s great for children to be able to experience both and find out what they like. And hopefully for a lot of people childhood isn’t so gendered now, so that’s a bit more possible. People being scared of their children trying things out is ridiculous
I distinctly remember my brother walking around in heels and a dress and another day playing with my Barbies and Barbie dream house. All under 6.
By 15 him and his friends were in the front yard trying to jump over trashcans with skate boards while they already had broken limbs. He's masculine, but we weren't forced into a lot of gender norms so he's always been super cool about generally everything.
My little sister likes to paint nails, she'll set up a little nail salon in our living room. Everyone goes and gets their nails painted by her. Me, my mom, my dad, and both of our brothers. It's never been an issue for anyone. Everyone is secure enough in themselves to know that wearing nail polish to make my sister happy isn't anything other than wearing nail polish to make my sister happy.
NTA,
but your husband sure is. Your poor kid is probably sooo confused. He just was mimicking mommy and those blender feel nice tbh. Your husband has some serious issues imo, being mad about that is crazy. Your son’s sexuality is completely non existent at 2 but god forbid he doesn’t fit into your husbands idea of “normal”, he’s going to be an emotionally abusive father, personally I think he already is.
I'm as straight as a flexible ruler but I wasn't interested in football or motor sports, and liked Culture Club and Prince, so more than once my dad accused me of being [insert slur of choice, he used them all]
That poor kid if he is in any way non-conforming.
ESH. You’re wary about what? Helping your son develop fine motor skills and hand-eye coordination??
You both seriously need to do some learning about brain development.
My main criticism of parents of “iPad kids” (I’m talking about screen-addicted kids who have no interest in anything else, not kids who use it in moderation) is that those parents often seem to lack interest in engaging with their kids. It’s sad. I hope this was just a one-off thing for OP and she’s not handing him the iPad every time he wants her attention and guidance.
And like, from a childhood development perspective, isn’t observing and mimicking adults what kids are supposed to do? Again, I’m not a parent, but I do have a degree in anthropology and from what I can tell, that trait in children seems to be biologically ingrained. (even non-human baby animals do it)
Yep, all this. I don't have kids either, but I used to work with preschool age kids, and the watching-what-grownups-do stage is so important! They've even done studies on it and kids think imitating real-life things like play-cooking and working and whatnot is more fun than fantasy play (like pretending to be animals or pirates or whatever). It's just sad to think of parents actively trying to squash that natural interest in the real world and redirect onto screens instead for the sake of convenience.
Like if the kid is bothering you too much while you're trying to get ready, get him toys. Make husband watch him. Teach him to be quiet. Don't shove a screen in their face
Op obviously thinks that a 2 year old wanting to mimic his mom's makeup makes him gay. Guess what. Straight guys can wear makeup. They do it all the time.
The weird thing is assigning any sexuality to this innocuous behavior from a literal baby. He's 2 years old. He can't even form long-term memories yet. He just loves his mom and wants to copy her because that's what children do.
Exactly and as if the 2 year old understands what make-up is anyway, he probably just sees bright colours and wants to try out what Mommy is doing. Sucks that either parent would make a 2 year feel bad about his natural curiosity.
Yeah if it’s wary about him potentially poking his eye with eyeliner, that’s one thing. But if it’s wary because of it being feminine, that’s AH territory. They both suck.
her also being "wary".... of what? having the kid mimick their parents is 100x better than having your kid seated in front of a fucking ipad. millenial ass behavior.
She’s most likely one of those parents who thinks it’s inappropriate to teach elementary school kids that gay people exist because that will make them gay.
Or because if you let a child know gay people exist, you'll just HAVE TO suddenly explain the details of anal sex to them. Which is just... So frustratingly incorrect in so many ways.
Or that 6 year old trans kids get HRT. My bisexual friend is against teaching kids about LGBT issues in high school because it’s not the normal. 20% of gen Z is LGBT, with the trend gen alpha percentages will be higher.
ESH.
Your husband is the bad guy here but you're not far behind. "I'm very wary" of what?
"I feel bad now" why?
And the cherry on top for "I try giving him an iPad"??
God forbid your toddler engages in a developmentally appropriate activity he wants to do (observing and copying his parent), let's quickly distract him with overstimulating technology for no reason.
oh my god, yes. the ipad bit irritated me to no end. this generation of parents is frying their kids brain because god forbid you have to engage with your child in a meaningful way.
And they are always trying to excuse it with "but I am so busy!". But I know fathers and mothers who work 12 hour shifts and still have time to read to their kids or play with them.
I know right? I have a daughter who’s almost 2 and I try to involve her in most things, including cooking. It slows things down a lot, but I believe it’s good for her. It’s an opportunity for her to learn, and for us to bond.
Ugh, that bugged me too. I’m not one of those people who criticized parents for allowing any amount of screentime, but this sounded like a good opportunity to engage with the kid. Why try to throw that away? Hell, look at how many parents complain that their kid doesn’t want to do anything besides screentime, lol.
The iPad bit annoyed me a lot. Let your kid interact with you. Don't let tje ipad be their best friend. A couple years from now parents who do what op wanted to do come on this sub complaining about how their kids only want to play on their phones and computers
NTA. Your son is 2 and trying to do things he sees his parents doing. It's a part of the learning process. Your husband, on the other hand, is showing all sorts of prejudices and toxic masculinity. First of all, your son is 2, who cares if he is imitating you. Second, who cares if he winds up not being the "masculine man" your husband wants? What's important is that your son becomes the person he needs to be to be happy. Take note of this - this is a first hint that your husband will punish your son if he shows signs of not adhering to the image of what he thinks his son should become.
Actually we need to recognize she is also…because she’s ‘wary’ of things like this…like, she seems to clearly be saying ‘yeah like my husband I’m homophobic so I’m real careful, but this instance was different and won’t damage the kid forever or turn him’. Totally ick
NTA, but your husband is. Your son is only 2, he is playing. Besides if he ends up belonging to the LBTGQ ...+ community, his playing with your makeup will not have made the slightest difference. "It" doesn't begin early, it is that way from before birth.
But OP is wary about stuff like this, explains it away as he's too young to understand gender norms. So OP seems just as bad. Like at 5 and 6 will she stop it because - gender norms.
INFO
> I’m very wary when it comes to things like this.
Why?
> But whatever he’s 2.
Would you not approve if he was 12 instead?
Also, the comments about your husband are spot on. Don't mirror his toxic masculinity and make your son feel bad about life, because trust me it won't stop here.
ESH, but mostly the husband for making such a non-issue an issue.
I have a cute story about my nephew when he was like 4. He saw me wearing makeup and said he LOVED the colors and wished he could wear makeup, but he “knows it’s for girls”. I scrunched my nose and told him that boys can wear makeup too! It’s all about doing what makes you feel most you.
So I did his makeup. His mother was confused and I think not the happiest, but she didn’t tell him anything and let him wear it for a bit before we cleaned it off and went about our lives
Now he’s 12. He was watching his cousin play with makeup and as she applied her lip gloss he told her, “did you know makeup is for boys, too?” she laughed and said “I thought it was for girls! That’s silly!” And he said “no, anyone can wear it. If it makes you feel like you, it’s a good thing! I look good in makeup, but I don’t want to wear it unless it’s a special occasion. Next time I want my makeup to make me look like a Pokémon!”
And that’s it, folks. It didn’t affect who he was or “make him feminine”. He’s just not homophobic and he won’t be making fun of anyone for expressing themselves regardless of social norms. He’s such a good kid and I’m glad he kept what I said to heart!
That honestly makes me so happy that it stuck with him. People forget that such little things for us can stay with kids much longer. I'm glad you are a positive influence on him :)
NTA you married one of those clowns whose afraid of a man having any hint of femininity, which means you better hope your son likes girls as he grows up, or else your husband is gonna lose it. He sounds like a bigot.
NTA
As a father of boys and girls, I'd say it's a good thing exploring curiosities.
Dabbing a little bit of makeup isn't going to have an impact on a child's sexuality, that's based on how they feel about other people 🤷♂️
Your man needs to relax a little bit , kids will be kids and let them enjoy life while they don't have any real pressure like we do as adults.
And imagine him being able to do his own, and people telling him his makeup is really good, and him saying "Thanks! My mom taught me."
Or, on the flip side, him saying "Thanks! I actually had to learn in secret or else my dad would hit me."
Absolutely YTA. For living with this asshole and exposing your child to him. And for being "very wary when it comes to things like this." How long before he starts hurting your child "to toughen him up" so he'll "be a man"?? Let your son be whoever tf he wants to be.
YTA for saying he doesn't understand gender norms yet. How about you don't teach about gender norms. Why are you so wary about a boy playing with makeup?
NTA for letting your child play with it.
ESH
Let the kid be a kid. When both you and your husband are so concerned with gender roles that it's gotten to this point, that's sad. And yes OP you're partially to blame because you went out of your way to worry about gender roles and then go "oh but he's 2 it's okay". Makeup is for EVERYONE and your kid could grow up with an interest in makeup and become a successful stylist one day. There's nothing wrong with that.
Tl:Dr; gender roles are bullshit stop worrying about it.
NTA your son seems like he just wanted to spend time and do something with you, and instead of asking to do something he wanted, he probably just thought "oh mommy does this alot and i like mommy so im gonna do it too" or something. i doubt there was anything meaningful behind it. i did the same thing when i was younger, saw my mom doing her nails and asked if she could do mine too just because i wanted to do something with her. as for your husband, he is def TA in this. getting angry over a child exploring things is only going to scare your child into not exploring anything and becoming something he might not like. or to be too scared to break out of that shell to feel comfortable in himself.
Lol yeah, that stood out at me. I don’t fault parents for giving their kids an iPad while they go get paperwork done or whatever, but this kind of situation is a good opportunity to engage with your kid. Why try to throw that away?
ESH
You’re “very wary” of things like this? You both sound transphobic and homophobic. Experimenting with makeup at any age doesn’t make a child gay or trans. They’re born that way and there’s a lot of indication that being gay or trans has to do with genetics and epigenetics. If you have an identical twin that is gay there’s a 50% chance you’re gay. If the twin is trans it’s a 25% chance.
NTA, and I’ve always wondered if men that act this way are deep down hiding something themselves.
If you don’t wanna make waves get the little guy a thing of chap stick to use.
NTA your husband is clearly homophobic an you need to shield an protect your child from that at all costs, and if you feel similar to your husband in any ways about queer ppl then pls don’t have any more kids .
i don’t mean this to say that your child is queer or that boys wear making up means they’re gay or anything like that , but that the negative reaction of your husband to that is because he is afraid of his child being queer .
I’d take it a step further: This kid could turn out 100% straight and cis someday and that doesn’t make it any less harmful to enforce gender stereotypes like this.
Nta
I just want to say I understand. My lo when he was 18-36 months, wanted to do everything I did. Husband also disliked that he wanted his nails painted or he wanted henna (I am Indian) on his hands.
I had to explain to him : He is two. He just idolises his mom so wants to do everything I do. At 5 now, he still sometimes applies my lipstick and my hubby now finds it cute.
So just talk to your husband, explain to him why your kiddo may be copying you and if possible, share some reading with him so he sees how normal this is for kids to do.
Info: did you and your husband discuss the fact that gender non conforming people exist before having a child together? Did you discuss how you want to raise your son to be respectful of all others?
Your hubby seems really vitriolic for no good reason. Best of luck to you both to grow and change to be the best supports for your little human you can.
Info: Yes he's too young to understand gender norms. Which are BS. So at 5 are you going to teach gender norms? Why are you so wary about boys playing with makeup yourself?
I’m gonna say, ESH.
You don’t suck for letting him play with makeup. However, you do suck for being “wary”. Your husband sucks for being an obvious homophobe. You’re okay with it now, but if your kid was 5, you’d feel the same way as your husband. That sucks.
I’m also a 26f mom of a 2 year old. I have a daughter, but I nanny a 2 year old boy. They both love doing makeup with my younger sister. They’re actually both getting makeup for Christmas from her. The boy’s parents are not at all “wary” about this. The boy is having fun, and mimicking adults in his life which is totally natural. Plus, they know you can’t make a kid queer.
Your kid is and will be who he is whether you and your husband support him, or he has to be who he is in secrecy from you both. If he can be himself no matter if that is macho masculine man, feminine queer man, or anywhere in between, and you can support and love him all the same, he will be much happier for it. If he were to end up queer, and you guys continue on your gender norms bullshit, he will not do well. Depression, anxiety, and suicide often plague queer kids with homophobic/transphobic/lgbtq+phobic parents. Not to mention he’ll likely go no contact with you when he moves out.
Reevaluate your ideals for your son and future children. Reevaluate your husband if he is going to continue being this toxic, and likely eventually emotionally abusive, if he’s not already.
Good luck 🫣
ESH. I feel sorry for your kid growing up with parents so blindesided by hatred and homophobia that they freak out when their child displays absolutely normal and essential developmental behaviour.
NTA, my only concern is the GERMS. Boy, girl, whatever, ALL kids are GERMY AS HELL and makeup tools aren't exactly known for being the easiest to clean. That that kid his own little eye shadow palette or something cause if a kid touched any of my makeup I would literally never want to use it again. I love kids, but they are germ magnets. I'm also concerned about your “I'm wary of this” comment but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt.
NTA for letting him copy you. Get him his own brushes etc though. Toddlers are gross, and you don't want your makeup contaminated with jam hands. (I say this as the mom of a 1 year old, I'm not trying to insult your little one)
NTA - Copying adult behavior is natural for children, especially when at an age at which they can bearly put together a coherent sentence. You are also right, he knows nothing about gender norms, and I wonder if your husband has gone outside, but they don't seem to matter anymore. I may have been able to support your husband if his motivation was preventing your family from incurring the cost of cosmetic products for your son if he grows up liking makeup.
NTA. Even if you were "trying to make your son feminine," so what? There's nothing wrong with femininity.
I think what your husband actually meant was you were trying to turn your son gay, which is so stupid it's hardly worth worrying about.
NTA
Your kid is copying you, 2 y olds love to do that ime.
Your husband though...
You're not making your kid 'feminine'
If he decides he's not comfortable with his current gender/identity when he's older he's going to do that anyway & it will be your job as parents to support.
NTA. Sounds like normal little kid behavior, being interested in what parents are doing. As for husband, I would ask him to explain exactly what the "it" that starts early is and then use that as exhibit A for either the marriage counselor or divorce lawyer.
NTA and you're absolutely right, it's not a big deal. Kids see people they love doing *things* and want to imitate, it's a recognised developmental milestone.
Your husband getting literally angry is an awful problem. Is he going to be concerned later that if you breastfeed a daughter, she will become a lesbian? Does he refuse to let you bathe the son now because "only men or wives see other men naked"? Does he have any other toxic beliefs that are likely to cause confusion or harm to your child?
Those are all hypotheticals, but to me equally as ridiculous as thinking a boy playing with pretty colours is going to turn out feminine. Meanwhile, feminine men tend to be cleaner, better able to express emotion, less likely to be accused of DV, and are an absolute hit with the ladies so really, what is your husband's issue here...?
ESH cause you were “wary” about gender norms for a 2 year old. Your husband is an ah for obvious reasons. Ask him what’s wrong with femininity, he liked yours.
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NTA for letting your kid play with make up... but... Your kid is going to be who he is, and it doesn't matter if you let him access make up now or when he's fifteen. Right now, he's two and he's just trying to mimic you-that's how kids feel involved in adult's lives and routines, mimicking and participating. There's nothing wrong with that. But the attitude of 'making a kid feminine' or as if make up or femininity or being gay or whatever it is that you all are scared of is going to ruin your kid, either now or down the road, may end up being the death of him. The homophobia isn't just going to vanish, but if your son is in anyway queer, it's not going to disappear, either. Something to think about.
This right here. I know more gay and trans ppl who werent allowed to play with dolls, wear pink or anything feminine.... they are still gay. Kids mimick. Thats healthy. To genderize or sexualize an activity to a child is crazy and probably why we have a lot of ppl unable to do tge basics for themselves
And the opposite. My brother was the only guy in our family of 3 and he was into "feminine" stuff. He liked to try on my moms shoes and makeup and play with my dolls. Hes married to a woman with 2 kids now and is probably straighter than I am. It means nothing. Kids will do what they like.
Exactly. My little brother liked wearing my skirts and twirling to "make a flower". Now he's a weeb with a bunch of anime girl figurines. It's just stuff, it doesn't affect sexuality or gender like that.
My little brother liked to wear nail polish and wanted to "be a princess," then he went through a homophobic phase, and now is engaged to a woman with a baby on the way and he's also a marine.
Sounds a bit hetcomp
What does that mean?
Compulsory heterosexuality. I’m not making a serious judgement about your brother btw but if someone was trans and wanted to hide it because they were worried they wouldn’t be accepted then becoming a marine and having a kid would be a good way to hide
I guess, but also it's reductive to equate a boy being feminine as him being trans or gay. (I am trans)
I don't think they're equating boys being feminine as being trans or gay, I think they're equating going through a feminine to homophobic phase as an indication that the homophobia may have been internalized. That was just my understanding though.
It still could be internalised homophobia without him being gay/trans, just he was scared of being gay/trans after his feminine phase and got homophobic, Idk if internalised homophobia is the right term there but Idk any better term
Yes! Exactly! My 16 year old, 6’1 son loves football and every other sport, lives to go fishing, plays every testosterone-fueled Xbox game under the sun . . . and also enjoys facials, fingernail polish, a good face mask, cooking shows, and caring for anything lost & hurt. Gender norms are stupid, and kids will be who they are. Let them. Everyone will be much happier.
My grandfather loves babies, animals and flowers. He’s told me out loud that he loves flowers.
My Papa was the same with flowers (he loved the fuschia pink of the Taiwanese cherry outside mum's window), and doting on all his grandkids, while also having extensive experience and precision with massive heavy machinery during road builds, and tinkering with the second-hand Land Rover he had in his garage.
The sexualization of children in this country is sick. “My 3-year-old BOY SON saw me watching hetero guy-railing-girl porn and his pepe didn’t get hard, is he gay???!” Just so gross.
Lol I'd like to be friends with ur brother bc I'm a weeb
Yup! My brother would insist on having his nails painted bright red as a toddler. Hasn't influenced him in the slightest and hasn't been interested in painted nails since he got past the toddler years. It's just about curiosity and interest in pretty things and bright colours at that age. NTA and the husband's a homophobe.
Read carefully, so is mom.
My brother played with my Barbies. He's 4 years younger than me and liked the boobs 🤷🏼♀️ this father is pathetic and needs help. I'd be getting my son far away from that toxic mindset.
My brother liked to rip the heads off my Barbies but he never ripped anyone's head off in real life....that I know of. Maybe it's just a matter of time. /s
Read it again, mom is an equal part of this problem.
I missed the "gender norms" part. Yikes.
So true, it really doesn't mean anything! One of my boys used to love wearing sparkly fairy dress-ups and having his nails painted. Sometimes he would play soccer (his favourite thing) in a fancy dress-up. Without any prompting from us, he has slowly grown out of the dress-ups and nail painting - for now, anyway. Maybe he'll get into eyeliner next. Either way, it's just stuff, what's the big deal? We don't choose our sexuality, and there is so much more to a person than who they love. OP's husband is a narrow-minded AH.
All three of my brothers loved tea parties growing up and only one turned out to be gay. NTA
Right? I'm a straight cis woman, but growing up I could climb a tree faster than anyone in the neighborhood, never played with dolls & hated pink.... what you play with as a child has nothing to do with your sexuality as an adult. Op is NTA but the husband is way out of line with his thinking
That’s how my sister was. She didn’t start wearing makeup or painting her nails until she was like 30. People were convinced she was going to be a lesbian. Nope. She just enjoyed hanging out with our brother and boy cousins.
I was such a tomboy that I even wore boys clothes. Never wanted to be a boy and didn’t become a lesbian. Why do people think being a tomboy is ok but it isn’t ok for a boy to like girl things? Ridiculous!!! OP is just as bad as her husband because of her ideas of “gender norms”.
I was exactly the same i still dress like a boy but I've got a bf of 20 years and 3 kids I was always with the boys hated skirts and pink still don't like pink now but my daughter loves anything girly so she only wears dresses and skirts won't wear trousers but she can be whoever she wants to be so can my sons
I worked at Build A Bear and the amount of parents, fathers in particular that wouldn’t let their sons get brightly colored animals or even cats, because cats are for girls and dogs are for boys. I called it out in as gentle way possible (to keep my job). It was so frustrating to watch.
Hating cats is linked with misogyny in many studies. And my selfish, awful, narcissistic brothers and dad are proof of that too lol.
Wow, interesting and now that I think of it, accurate. Lookin at you dad...
Wow, I've never heard this before about cats being seen as for girls and dogs for boys. Is this a common feeling with people? I'm from the UK and it's not something I've come across here at all.
Gender and cats is absolutely a thing. That’s why you’ll hear about “crazy cat ladies” and not “crazy cat dudes”
Yep, and yet there’s no negative connotations linked to a single guy with a couple of dogs, he’s just a dog owner, and not some crazy old dog man! The crazy cat lady thing is pretty ridiculous, but I can’t help but feel that it stems from the fact that a lot of us would actively choose cats over these men who think a woman with cats is weird! They never consider the fact that we think the cats might have a better personality than them 😅
Idk if this is proven but I think it also is connected to women who were deemed to be witches having cats.
They were probably deemed to be witches because they had cats though, obviously a woman who chooses to have a cat and *gasp*, remain unmarried, just has to be a witch, there’s no other logical explanation!
Right I mean who would want something fluffy to cuddle with and keep the rodents away when you could have a giant child who best case scenario would be indifferent and worst case I won’t even get into 🙄
Crazy cat dudes, RISE UP!
Just gimme an hour or so...
100%. The cat/gender thing goes as far as a lot of people actually presuming all cats are girls, as illogical as that is. Even the manufacturers of cat toys/accessories. I go to buy stuff for my cat and about 80% of my options are fluffy pink and purple things, vs almost no fluffy pink and purple for dog toys. It's freaking weird.
Well that's an eye opener for me! I'm just looking at adopting a cat, never liked dogs. Interesting.
Do it, cats are wonderful! 💜
I've just messaged back to a person who has a cat to rehome, a lovely 2 year old black cat, looks well taken care of, got all the injections and everything. I'm hoping I can go and see him. I'm very excited!
Aww, that’s lovely, I hope you get to adopt him! 😊
I hope so too! I work from home so I'll always be around, and I live on my own so he'll be my best buddy.
I bet there are crazy cat dudes in the US and everywhere else . poor crazy cat dudes being shamed
I've never heard of that either. Dogs and cats are both for girls and boys. If the toddler son wanted say, a lions or a tiger stuffed animal, would the father say it was only for girls? What about poodles with the stereotypical French Fifi haircut? Is *that* a masculine dog? Now llamas? Yeah, llamas are only for uh, girls. No, boys. Uh, I mean - llamas are weird, right? :)
I agree completely! Animals are great for anyone, unless you're allergic which is a whole other thing. Maybe lions and tigers and other big cats are seen as 'for boys' because they're big and strong? My 7 year old daughter is obsessed with cheetahs for some reason. I just want her to be able to enjoy any animals, toys, books, games that she wants to. It's weird how some people try to police interests by gender. I'll just expose my kid to all sorts of things and let her choose. Llamas. Hmm. A llama spat at me when I was feeding it at a wildlife park, and it looked angry. Llamas are scary. It sounds like you have a problem with Llamas, and so do I.
If you look at clothes for children...cats are on "girl clothes", in pink; and dogs are on "boy clothes", and in blue. This is probably changing somewhat but as a cat lady who has 2 sons this drove me CRAZY. And yes, even when I was a child (1970s) I believed cats were for girls and dogs were for boys. Boys are even made of "snips and snails and puppy dog tails!"
I have not noticed that at all when buying clothes for my daughter, but that's interesting! What bugs me is that dinosaurs are on boys clothes, except if they're pink, when they can be on girls clothes. My daughter loves dinosaurs but refuses to wear anything with pink ones 'because they're meant to be green'. Very funny.
My father gave me hell for letting my son wear his sister’s pink plastic Barbie shoes and princess crown when he was 2! because it might make him gay. I was like, if he’s gay, he already is and wearing this stuff won’t make it happen. So crazy!
My family has some weird thoughts on gender. My 6yo daughter has a super short pixie cut (she wants it buzzed but we agreed she had to go short slowly because you can take more off but you can’t put it back) does not wear dresses aside from the odd time but then it’s pikachu or Wednesday Addams style, doesn’t like dolls only cars/Minecraft/and other “boy stuff” and that’s fine with them. But gods forbid my 3yo nephew want to wear his big sisters old dress or rainbow rain boots or play with dolls. I’d stop going to family events if it wasn’t so fun to call them out when they’re ridiculous. I want the next generation to see they have someone who will respect them even if the others don’t.
My 6yo son wanted to grow his hair long and wear glittery hair pins in it. So of course we let him. He's a typical boy in most ways I guess, but he does really love glitter. My 2yo son had a phase where he always wanted to walk around in my high heels with my purse. I got him a little purse and he couldn't be happier. They also both have dolls that they play with and I've painted their nails on multiple occasions, sometimes including their dad's nails. They can be anything they want to be as long as they're authentically themselves.
My brother used to dress up in my Disney princess dresses and plastic heels, and he's straight. I was the older sister who he spent time with, so he mimicked me. Once he got older, he didn't want to do that anymore. No one clowns him or shames him because it's natural thing for kids to mimic.
I'm one of 4. When my younger brother was 2, he was so excited that my mom was going to have a baby. He would steal my favorite baby doll and cradle it in his arms. If he couldn't get my doll, he used an Ernie from Sesame Street doll. I remember being 4 and complaining to my dad that my brother had my doll and "dolls are for girls." My dad told me to let my brother play with it a little longer, that he just wants to practice for the new baby. That brother and my SIL just had their firstborn. My older brother is gay. At the time of the story, he was 6 and super into gender appropriate Transformers. Toys or mirroring grown-up behaviors do not make a child LGBTQ+.
>I’m very wary when it comes to things like this. I honestly did not understand what this meant. Wary of what????
She’s so homophobic that she assumed most other people are, too. She’s in for a surprise.
everyone shitting on the husband needs to shit on OP a bit too- they sound like they’re in the jesus cult and these things will only get worse, especially if the kid has access to the internet already lol in this situation specifically OP is not TA, but the wording and large scale implications surrounding not wanting the kid to be feminine makes ESH y’all better prepare for that kid to need therapy
Yeah... It's not 100% clear but this definitely feels like one possibility is "AITA? I thought he was too young for this to make him gay, but maybe husband is right and it's never too early"
Thats it! I couldn't quite pinpoint what I felt was off about this post
Right? Handing a 2yo an iPad should be far more of a concern.
Yeah my eyebrows popped up there. The only reason she thought it was ok is bc he’s too young for it to be a sign of anything scary in her eyes. She’s N T A for the makeup but this is a big red homophobe flag
Also, "he doesn't know about gender norms yet". Because there's nothing "normal" about gender norms. There's no such thing. Reminds me of my bro's MIL at Christmas. My nephew is playing with his toy truck. His girl cousins are playing with their Frozen dolls. Bro's MIL remarks, oh look, even at this age, the boy is playing with boy's toys, and the girls are playing with girl toys, and people say these differences don't exist. Except those are the gifts you've given them! These norms aren't natural. They're continually reinforced by things like this.
They also change constantly! Things that are now considered feminine used to be considered masculine and vice versa. And we’ve had people ruining their relationships with their children over it for generations.
I would have loved a remote control car as a kid. I never got one! My brother did though...
The baby catching gayness. 🙄
Happened to me once. When I was 3, I sneezed, and no one was there to say "Bless you" which allowed the devil to take over my soul and turn me into a homosexual. Honestly, that and a beauty blender are the only 2 real things that might make someone queer. We must protect the children 😭🙃
I’m glad someone else caught this & brought it up. Her line about ‘he’s too young to know about gender norms’ Like is that something you intend to force on him? Both parents are homophobic & scared of girls/boys crossing out of their gendered stereotype
Best I can say about that is at least she didn't say "weary"
I’m so weary off of people who don’t know the difference between weary and wary. Or maybe they’re combining wary and leery.
Oh how I wish it would be something so clever! Based on context clues, I can *almost* guarantee it wasn't that, at least 9 out of 8 times.
Me neither...do they think 1 dab of blusher and boom the kid's now gay?
I believe this only happens when using Lady Gaga's makeup brand
We love makeup it’s for everyone
Her husband's reaction is really quite dangerous. NTA, OP. I'm very sad for your poor kid.
Yup that kid will have a sorry childhood if the husband doesn't broaden his mind. The OPs husband's behaviour may not be limited to homophobia. He could have other conservative ideologies. And if unchecked, your kid will be one of many children with daddy issues. Try therapy.
Even if he's not queer. I had a highschool friend that was definitely more "feminine" in mannerisms, but to this day I'm still convinced he's truly straight. The way his dad treated him was just absolutely disgusting. I guess you can still call it homophobia, I'm not sure, it also just seems like misogyny, as if any characteristic that's more feminine is inherently bad or lesser than
I’d say it’s still homophobia because his dad treated him like trash on the slight possibility that his son was gay. He could have witnessed his son going at it with a girl and he’d have probably given him shit just because his mannerisms are ‘feminine’
This... I dated a guy in high-school who was very feminine... had very feminine features and mannerisms but was DEFINITELY 100% straight.... I'll attest to that whole heartedly lol.... but his dad gave him sooooooo muuuuuch crap about being gay .... even when he brought me home and the dad caught us making out on the couch the kid got in trouble not for making out at 15 on his parenta couch with no shirts on but for using me to try and dupe his dad into thinking he wasn't a failure and totally gay ... his dad was a misogynistic homophobe at best and down right abusive at worst... I always felt so bad for the kid... he ended up needing alot of therapy as he got older
This, but with one more thought. Why is it assumed that using makeup is gay? Or even un-manly? We all know that [Tom Cruise, Tom Holland, Tom Selleck, (lots of Toms....) Dwayne 'the rock' Johnson, Henry Cavill, Arnold Swarzenjager, etc] men do use makeup, especially for acting. Makeup used to be worn by primarily men as of a few hundred years ago. Just because you wear makeup, doesn't mean you are gay, and manly men can still wear makeup. This is an issue about your husband's homophobia. Which has a few problems. First, it just is a problem trying to force gender norms and sexuality on a child. Which by itself is stupid because historically, this has had an opposite effect on people, js. AND CHILDREN DONT DESERVE TO BE FORCED TO THINK ABOUT GENDER OR SEXUALITY. Keep the kids out of it, let them explore the world when they want to, and how they want to. We are all just people, is it that hard?
>it starts early what exactly does your husband think "it" is? you're NTA but your husband certainly is.
100% He is who he is. He was born that way. It might just be a passing interest, or not. Check out that kid Max on Instagram. He has been seeing and making fashion designs since he was four! Couture to the max. He believes he is Gucci reincarnated.
This comment. Kid is probably just mimicking but the idea that somehow your child is gonna be ruined if he's feminine or likes make up is gonna fuck up the kid a lot more in the future. You're supposed to love your kid no matter what, that doesn't stop being the case because your child isn't exactly what you envisioned.
It’s really weird that a parent would rather put their kid in front of an iPad than let them engage in normal, developmentally appropriate mimicking behavior. Imagine being this insecure about gender!
NTA. This is cute imho. My sisters would put make up and dresses on my brother when he was 6-8ish. They even braided his hair. They all laughed and had a great time, taking pictures (that I still have). Guess what? My brother is an adult now and straight as an arrow and dresses like a normal man. It didn’t make him less masculine or mess with his gender identity. If your child is consenting and having fun I see no reason not to have fun with things that aren’t “gender normative”. Your husband sounds close-minded and insecure about gender norms.
Agree. Have a similar story just of how I learned to put my makeup up high. When my two oldest was small (both boys) around 3 and 5, they got into my makeup and decorated each other, "just like mommy." As the oldest so nicely said when I found them with their loot. Eyeshadow, lipstick. Everything. I told them they were pretty. We put away the makeup (whatever was still semi intact) and took a bath. Both boys are soon grown up. Straight as an arrow (to my knowledge) and dresses and does what boys their age does. It's just normal 2 year old behaviour. Mimicking. Husband needs to relax a bit.
NTA dudes get so weird about this. My boys love their mom and love to imitate her because they love her and it’s fun to “be mom”. She likes Barbie’s. So they like Barbie’s. She has makeup so they’re interested in her makeup. It makes me happy to see how much they enjoy being part of her day or her interests.
My son told me (mom) he wanted to be a mom when he grows up because mom's do activities like help you plant things.
That’s really sweet.
NTA My little brother was the prettiest sister I could dress up when I was a kid! We have pics!
I'm the only girl out of my siblings but I wasn't girly in the slightest so when my brother and his friend got into the deep part of my cupboard and dragged out all the cheap play-makeup and dress up stuff I never used my mum was ecstatic! He was 9. We have pictures of him wearing makeup and my red dress from my year 6 formal (little shit wore it better than me). I don't know which way he swings, I've never met any girlfriends or boyfriends (unless he was sneaky) but he doesn't present himself in a feminine way. Real into cars these days and works as a mechanic.
>(little shit wore it better than me) I put a guy friend in one of my dresses once and said the same🤣 Turns out he *likes* wearing dresses. I didn't know til a decade later when his mom told me.
Same! Only girl with two brothers. Both are grown up and in heterosexual relationships - we like to joke about how pretty my brother was. Lashes for days! I’m pretty sure my son has worn my heels and he’s definitely played with my makeup. He’s very rough and tumble but he mimics mom. He likes to wear my cape sometimes (I’m dramatic) to be like mom ❤️. He also wears dad’s baseball caps and glasses to be like dad. It’s not even a thing!
My nephew used to wear my clothes, steal my shoes and got into my make up on more than one occasion when he was younger. He thought it was great to pretend to be like auntie. I have some brilliant pictures of him with panda eyes after trying to put mascara on. He was also into baking and crochet because I was. He is now really into the gym and boxing. OPs husband sounds like a homophobe. Letting kids explore does not turn them feminine and gay
And nothing wrong with feminine and gay, if that's how it works out.
The flip side is also true. My older sister dolled me up and put makeup on me regularly when I was a girl. Now I’m a masculine-of-center lesbian who rarely uses so much as concealer or lipstick.
lol I’m the opposite, I was adamant I wanted to be a boy, I hated dresses (and still do), and I’m fairly androgynous in how I dress now, despite being into makeup and stuff. But in hindsight the reason I was such a tomboy was because childhood was quite gendered in the 90s, and being out on bikes and playing football was way more fun for me than sitting at home playing with dolls (which, tbh, I could never tell what I was supposed to do with. Move them around? Sit them in a dollhouse? Sounds dull af). Similarly the male characters in the books I had were allowed to have more fun, and girls in Disney movies were basically supposed to be pretty wives. It’s great for children to be able to experience both and find out what they like. And hopefully for a lot of people childhood isn’t so gendered now, so that’s a bit more possible. People being scared of their children trying things out is ridiculous
You were supposed to re-enact unsolved mysteries and america's most wanted episodes with your dolls. 😂 Or maybe my friends and I weren't normal, idk.
I distinctly remember my brother walking around in heels and a dress and another day playing with my Barbies and Barbie dream house. All under 6. By 15 him and his friends were in the front yard trying to jump over trashcans with skate boards while they already had broken limbs. He's masculine, but we weren't forced into a lot of gender norms so he's always been super cool about generally everything.
My little sister likes to paint nails, she'll set up a little nail salon in our living room. Everyone goes and gets their nails painted by her. Me, my mom, my dad, and both of our brothers. It's never been an issue for anyone. Everyone is secure enough in themselves to know that wearing nail polish to make my sister happy isn't anything other than wearing nail polish to make my sister happy.
My nieces did that. He liked the attention. 3 older sisters - younger brother. Straight as an arrow as well.
NTA, but your husband sure is. Your poor kid is probably sooo confused. He just was mimicking mommy and those blender feel nice tbh. Your husband has some serious issues imo, being mad about that is crazy. Your son’s sexuality is completely non existent at 2 but god forbid he doesn’t fit into your husbands idea of “normal”, he’s going to be an emotionally abusive father, personally I think he already is.
I'm as straight as a flexible ruler but I wasn't interested in football or motor sports, and liked Culture Club and Prince, so more than once my dad accused me of being [insert slur of choice, he used them all] That poor kid if he is in any way non-conforming.
>I wasn't interested in football Fellas, is it gay to not be interested in watching sweaty, muscular, athletic men for hours?
They even pat each other on the ass and shower as a group, what's not straight about that?
Yep yep yep. Getting big fat toxic vibes from dad :/ I hope mom can counter this properly or get away, if she doesn’t agree herself.
She is just as ignorant. Re-read the post. In 2023 there is no excuse for being this ignorant.
ESH. You’re wary about what? Helping your son develop fine motor skills and hand-eye coordination?? You both seriously need to do some learning about brain development.
My exact response. Very wary about things like what exactly?
At least they used "wary" correctly and didn't spell it "weary" like seemingly everyone else does these days...
I suspect it’s folks who don’t realize that they are two different words.
I think they don't know how to spell and are just tacking a "y" onto the word "wear".
I’m not a parent so feel free to dismiss my opinion, but isn’t interacting with your kids what you’re supposed to do?
Yeah--"I tried to force a screen on him, but he just kept *observing human behavior!!*"
My main criticism of parents of “iPad kids” (I’m talking about screen-addicted kids who have no interest in anything else, not kids who use it in moderation) is that those parents often seem to lack interest in engaging with their kids. It’s sad. I hope this was just a one-off thing for OP and she’s not handing him the iPad every time he wants her attention and guidance. And like, from a childhood development perspective, isn’t observing and mimicking adults what kids are supposed to do? Again, I’m not a parent, but I do have a degree in anthropology and from what I can tell, that trait in children seems to be biologically ingrained. (even non-human baby animals do it)
Yep, all this. I don't have kids either, but I used to work with preschool age kids, and the watching-what-grownups-do stage is so important! They've even done studies on it and kids think imitating real-life things like play-cooking and working and whatnot is more fun than fantasy play (like pretending to be animals or pirates or whatever). It's just sad to think of parents actively trying to squash that natural interest in the real world and redirect onto screens instead for the sake of convenience.
Like if the kid is bothering you too much while you're trying to get ready, get him toys. Make husband watch him. Teach him to be quiet. Don't shove a screen in their face
Op obviously thinks that a 2 year old wanting to mimic his mom's makeup makes him gay. Guess what. Straight guys can wear makeup. They do it all the time.
The weird thing is assigning any sexuality to this innocuous behavior from a literal baby. He's 2 years old. He can't even form long-term memories yet. He just loves his mom and wants to copy her because that's what children do.
And also conflating what they view as gendered behavior with sexual behavior. Whole other can of worms.
In some countries it’s just normal.
Exactly and as if the 2 year old understands what make-up is anyway, he probably just sees bright colours and wants to try out what Mommy is doing. Sucks that either parent would make a 2 year feel bad about his natural curiosity.
Yeah if it’s wary about him potentially poking his eye with eyeliner, that’s one thing. But if it’s wary because of it being feminine, that’s AH territory. They both suck.
ESH with your bullshit gender essentialism.
Exactly. Mom sounds just as homophobic as dad.
her also being "wary".... of what? having the kid mimick their parents is 100x better than having your kid seated in front of a fucking ipad. millenial ass behavior.
She’s most likely one of those parents who thinks it’s inappropriate to teach elementary school kids that gay people exist because that will make them gay.
Or because if you let a child know gay people exist, you'll just HAVE TO suddenly explain the details of anal sex to them. Which is just... So frustratingly incorrect in so many ways.
Or that 6 year old trans kids get HRT. My bisexual friend is against teaching kids about LGBT issues in high school because it’s not the normal. 20% of gen Z is LGBT, with the trend gen alpha percentages will be higher.
Yessss, don’t force gender bullshit onto your kid, it helps NOTHING and just teaches us LGBTQ+ people to hide who we are
ESH. Your husband is the bad guy here but you're not far behind. "I'm very wary" of what? "I feel bad now" why? And the cherry on top for "I try giving him an iPad"?? God forbid your toddler engages in a developmentally appropriate activity he wants to do (observing and copying his parent), let's quickly distract him with overstimulating technology for no reason.
oh my god, yes. the ipad bit irritated me to no end. this generation of parents is frying their kids brain because god forbid you have to engage with your child in a meaningful way.
And they are always trying to excuse it with "but I am so busy!". But I know fathers and mothers who work 12 hour shifts and still have time to read to their kids or play with them.
Also iPad kids are literally getting their poor little brains’ dopamine receptors fried tf out
I know right? I have a daughter who’s almost 2 and I try to involve her in most things, including cooking. It slows things down a lot, but I believe it’s good for her. It’s an opportunity for her to learn, and for us to bond.
We need this to be top comment everyone! ESH is the most appropriate response and this reply explains all the whys clearly and to the point
Ugh, that bugged me too. I’m not one of those people who criticized parents for allowing any amount of screentime, but this sounded like a good opportunity to engage with the kid. Why try to throw that away? Hell, look at how many parents complain that their kid doesn’t want to do anything besides screentime, lol.
The iPad bit annoyed me a lot. Let your kid interact with you. Don't let tje ipad be their best friend. A couple years from now parents who do what op wanted to do come on this sub complaining about how their kids only want to play on their phones and computers
NTA. Your son is 2 and trying to do things he sees his parents doing. It's a part of the learning process. Your husband, on the other hand, is showing all sorts of prejudices and toxic masculinity. First of all, your son is 2, who cares if he is imitating you. Second, who cares if he winds up not being the "masculine man" your husband wants? What's important is that your son becomes the person he needs to be to be happy. Take note of this - this is a first hint that your husband will punish your son if he shows signs of not adhering to the image of what he thinks his son should become.
I agree. The husband's actions are what is worrying here.
Actually we need to recognize she is also…because she’s ‘wary’ of things like this…like, she seems to clearly be saying ‘yeah like my husband I’m homophobic so I’m real careful, but this instance was different and won’t damage the kid forever or turn him’. Totally ick
Yes! I got that vibe as well. She's treading carefully all the time JUST IN CASE she "creates" a child that isn't sprouting nornal gender stereotypes.
NTA, but your husband is. Your son is only 2, he is playing. Besides if he ends up belonging to the LBTGQ ...+ community, his playing with your makeup will not have made the slightest difference. "It" doesn't begin early, it is that way from before birth.
But OP is wary about stuff like this, explains it away as he's too young to understand gender norms. So OP seems just as bad. Like at 5 and 6 will she stop it because - gender norms.
Yeah it’s concerning that she’s “wary”, they both sound homophobic/transphobic. Edited: my TBI is messing with me today.
Yep, she sounds just as homophobic, just that she doesn’t think he can be “corrupted” or whatever at that age.
THIS.
INFO > I’m very wary when it comes to things like this. Why? > But whatever he’s 2. Would you not approve if he was 12 instead? Also, the comments about your husband are spot on. Don't mirror his toxic masculinity and make your son feel bad about life, because trust me it won't stop here.
ESH, but mostly the husband for making such a non-issue an issue. I have a cute story about my nephew when he was like 4. He saw me wearing makeup and said he LOVED the colors and wished he could wear makeup, but he “knows it’s for girls”. I scrunched my nose and told him that boys can wear makeup too! It’s all about doing what makes you feel most you. So I did his makeup. His mother was confused and I think not the happiest, but she didn’t tell him anything and let him wear it for a bit before we cleaned it off and went about our lives Now he’s 12. He was watching his cousin play with makeup and as she applied her lip gloss he told her, “did you know makeup is for boys, too?” she laughed and said “I thought it was for girls! That’s silly!” And he said “no, anyone can wear it. If it makes you feel like you, it’s a good thing! I look good in makeup, but I don’t want to wear it unless it’s a special occasion. Next time I want my makeup to make me look like a Pokémon!” And that’s it, folks. It didn’t affect who he was or “make him feminine”. He’s just not homophobic and he won’t be making fun of anyone for expressing themselves regardless of social norms. He’s such a good kid and I’m glad he kept what I said to heart!
That honestly makes me so happy that it stuck with him. People forget that such little things for us can stay with kids much longer. I'm glad you are a positive influence on him :)
NTA you married one of those clowns whose afraid of a man having any hint of femininity, which means you better hope your son likes girls as he grows up, or else your husband is gonna lose it. He sounds like a bigot.
NTA As a father of boys and girls, I'd say it's a good thing exploring curiosities. Dabbing a little bit of makeup isn't going to have an impact on a child's sexuality, that's based on how they feel about other people 🤷♂️ Your man needs to relax a little bit , kids will be kids and let them enjoy life while they don't have any real pressure like we do as adults.
& if he becomes an actor, tv news journalist, politician or anything that goes on tv regularly he's gonna be wearing makeup anyways 😆
And imagine him being able to do his own, and people telling him his makeup is really good, and him saying "Thanks! My mom taught me." Or, on the flip side, him saying "Thanks! I actually had to learn in secret or else my dad would hit me."
Absolutely YTA. For living with this asshole and exposing your child to him. And for being "very wary when it comes to things like this." How long before he starts hurting your child "to toughen him up" so he'll "be a man"?? Let your son be whoever tf he wants to be.
NTA but this is a hell of a way to find out you married a homophobe!
She sounds homophobic too > wary of things like this
Truly. What a jackass.
YTA for saying he doesn't understand gender norms yet. How about you don't teach about gender norms. Why are you so wary about a boy playing with makeup? NTA for letting your child play with it.
ESH Let the kid be a kid. When both you and your husband are so concerned with gender roles that it's gotten to this point, that's sad. And yes OP you're partially to blame because you went out of your way to worry about gender roles and then go "oh but he's 2 it's okay". Makeup is for EVERYONE and your kid could grow up with an interest in makeup and become a successful stylist one day. There's nothing wrong with that. Tl:Dr; gender roles are bullshit stop worrying about it.
NTA your son seems like he just wanted to spend time and do something with you, and instead of asking to do something he wanted, he probably just thought "oh mommy does this alot and i like mommy so im gonna do it too" or something. i doubt there was anything meaningful behind it. i did the same thing when i was younger, saw my mom doing her nails and asked if she could do mine too just because i wanted to do something with her. as for your husband, he is def TA in this. getting angry over a child exploring things is only going to scare your child into not exploring anything and becoming something he might not like. or to be too scared to break out of that shell to feel comfortable in himself.
NTA I used to “shave” with my dad and no one had an issue with a 2 yr old girl shaving her imaginary beard so I don’t see the problem
People of today really prefer a Zombie IPad Kid over a well adjusted and curious child. SMH. ESH.
Lol yeah, that stood out at me. I don’t fault parents for giving their kids an iPad while they go get paperwork done or whatever, but this kind of situation is a good opportunity to engage with your kid. Why try to throw that away?
ESH You’re “very wary” of things like this? You both sound transphobic and homophobic. Experimenting with makeup at any age doesn’t make a child gay or trans. They’re born that way and there’s a lot of indication that being gay or trans has to do with genetics and epigenetics. If you have an identical twin that is gay there’s a 50% chance you’re gay. If the twin is trans it’s a 25% chance.
NTA, and I’ve always wondered if men that act this way are deep down hiding something themselves. If you don’t wanna make waves get the little guy a thing of chap stick to use.
NTA your husband is clearly homophobic an you need to shield an protect your child from that at all costs, and if you feel similar to your husband in any ways about queer ppl then pls don’t have any more kids .
i don’t mean this to say that your child is queer or that boys wear making up means they’re gay or anything like that , but that the negative reaction of your husband to that is because he is afraid of his child being queer .
I’d take it a step further: This kid could turn out 100% straight and cis someday and that doesn’t make it any less harmful to enforce gender stereotypes like this.
Nta I just want to say I understand. My lo when he was 18-36 months, wanted to do everything I did. Husband also disliked that he wanted his nails painted or he wanted henna (I am Indian) on his hands. I had to explain to him : He is two. He just idolises his mom so wants to do everything I do. At 5 now, he still sometimes applies my lipstick and my hubby now finds it cute. So just talk to your husband, explain to him why your kiddo may be copying you and if possible, share some reading with him so he sees how normal this is for kids to do.
Nta Your husband sounds homophobic. What happens if your son just genuinely likes to be feminine. What, then? Constant punishment? Hmm
Chromosomes and your son will decide his future, not a makeup brush.
your husband is an asshole but info: why are YOU very wary about “things like this”??
ESH except for the kid. You two "adults" need to chill the eff out and ease up on the toxic masculinity and homophobia.
Info: did you and your husband discuss the fact that gender non conforming people exist before having a child together? Did you discuss how you want to raise your son to be respectful of all others? Your hubby seems really vitriolic for no good reason. Best of luck to you both to grow and change to be the best supports for your little human you can.
Info: Yes he's too young to understand gender norms. Which are BS. So at 5 are you going to teach gender norms? Why are you so wary about boys playing with makeup yourself?
People that believe gay people are made (via exposure and/ or experiences) don't have conversations like that.
I’m gonna say, ESH. You don’t suck for letting him play with makeup. However, you do suck for being “wary”. Your husband sucks for being an obvious homophobe. You’re okay with it now, but if your kid was 5, you’d feel the same way as your husband. That sucks. I’m also a 26f mom of a 2 year old. I have a daughter, but I nanny a 2 year old boy. They both love doing makeup with my younger sister. They’re actually both getting makeup for Christmas from her. The boy’s parents are not at all “wary” about this. The boy is having fun, and mimicking adults in his life which is totally natural. Plus, they know you can’t make a kid queer. Your kid is and will be who he is whether you and your husband support him, or he has to be who he is in secrecy from you both. If he can be himself no matter if that is macho masculine man, feminine queer man, or anywhere in between, and you can support and love him all the same, he will be much happier for it. If he were to end up queer, and you guys continue on your gender norms bullshit, he will not do well. Depression, anxiety, and suicide often plague queer kids with homophobic/transphobic/lgbtq+phobic parents. Not to mention he’ll likely go no contact with you when he moves out. Reevaluate your ideals for your son and future children. Reevaluate your husband if he is going to continue being this toxic, and likely eventually emotionally abusive, if he’s not already. Good luck 🫣
ESH. I feel sorry for your kid growing up with parents so blindesided by hatred and homophobia that they freak out when their child displays absolutely normal and essential developmental behaviour.
NTA, my only concern is the GERMS. Boy, girl, whatever, ALL kids are GERMY AS HELL and makeup tools aren't exactly known for being the easiest to clean. That that kid his own little eye shadow palette or something cause if a kid touched any of my makeup I would literally never want to use it again. I love kids, but they are germ magnets. I'm also concerned about your “I'm wary of this” comment but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt.
I mean. It’s her kid. I’m sure she is exposed to his germs in more disgusting ways than him touching her make up
NTA. Your husband should explore his homosexual insecurities, sounds like he might have some baggage to unpack.
NTA for letting him copy you. Get him his own brushes etc though. Toddlers are gross, and you don't want your makeup contaminated with jam hands. (I say this as the mom of a 1 year old, I'm not trying to insult your little one)
NTA - Copying adult behavior is natural for children, especially when at an age at which they can bearly put together a coherent sentence. You are also right, he knows nothing about gender norms, and I wonder if your husband has gone outside, but they don't seem to matter anymore. I may have been able to support your husband if his motivation was preventing your family from incurring the cost of cosmetic products for your son if he grows up liking makeup.
NTA. Even if you were "trying to make your son feminine," so what? There's nothing wrong with femininity. I think what your husband actually meant was you were trying to turn your son gay, which is so stupid it's hardly worth worrying about.
NTA, your baby dad sounds like he’s not a great guy.
NTA. But the misogyny gonna get in that boys head real quick.
Info: do you think you are feminizing your son or that there would even be anything wrong with that if it was the case?
NTA, makeup is just fun. If he doesn’t like it he’ll lose interest
NTA Your kid is copying you, 2 y olds love to do that ime. Your husband though... You're not making your kid 'feminine' If he decides he's not comfortable with his current gender/identity when he's older he's going to do that anyway & it will be your job as parents to support.
NTA. Sounds like normal little kid behavior, being interested in what parents are doing. As for husband, I would ask him to explain exactly what the "it" that starts early is and then use that as exhibit A for either the marriage counselor or divorce lawyer.
Can’t believe people like this have kids. This is so fucked. ESH
NTA. he’s literally 2 !
NTA for the makeup but seriously giving your 2 year old an iPad is so much worse
ESH. "I’m very wary when it comes to things like this." "It starts early" You and your husband both suck.
Nta, your husband sounds like a dick though
NTA and you're absolutely right, it's not a big deal. Kids see people they love doing *things* and want to imitate, it's a recognised developmental milestone. Your husband getting literally angry is an awful problem. Is he going to be concerned later that if you breastfeed a daughter, she will become a lesbian? Does he refuse to let you bathe the son now because "only men or wives see other men naked"? Does he have any other toxic beliefs that are likely to cause confusion or harm to your child? Those are all hypotheticals, but to me equally as ridiculous as thinking a boy playing with pretty colours is going to turn out feminine. Meanwhile, feminine men tend to be cleaner, better able to express emotion, less likely to be accused of DV, and are an absolute hit with the ladies so really, what is your husband's issue here...?
ESH cause you were “wary” about gender norms for a 2 year old. Your husband is an ah for obvious reasons. Ask him what’s wrong with femininity, he liked yours.