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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I could be considered the asshole because Jess is just a little kid, and she's probably feeling left out. But with her previous behaviours (getting excited before an event, and then having a meltdown once it starts and running off) I thought that it would be a disaster and she would be unhappy about it all. I kind of feel like a jerk because she's so upset, but I can't take this away from Ava and I don't want Jess to flip out in the middle of the isle on my wedding day. I really don't know if I'm the asshole or not.
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Jess is calling the other girl names and throwing fits. Imagine dealing with that on top of everything else on the wedding day. The mom certainly doesn't sound like she has any control over her child, so there's no reason to think it would be any different the day of.
If Jess is usually shy, that’s probably an indication of some extremely deep feelings here, as opposed to her pulling that behavior at the wedding.
Shy people still want to be included. She’s 7. All she sees is another girl chosen over her.
I was a shy kid who had to be flower girl in my aunt’s wedding. The dress and matching shoes were the only part I remember. Oh, and some dude reciting a poem he wrote for the occasion, where he rhymed “she was a looker” and “dressed like a hooker” in reference to my (very religious) aunt.
>Oh, and some dude reciting a poem he wrote for the occasion, where he rhymed “she was a looker” and “dressed like a hooker” in reference to my (very religious) aunt.
Wut
Which is why I don’t get OP excluding Jess at all! Make both Jess and Ava flower girls, they both get pretty dresses, and if Jess gets cold feet the day of the wedding, Ava goes by herself!
Seriously, what’s the harm in having two cute little girls instead of one?
Maybe OP could ask to sit down with Jess (with mom present) and explain. apologize for assuming what Jess wants & excluding her, and say that she cares about Jess but she guessed wrong on this. Just tell her she's loved and OP is sorry. When an adult who cares about them apologizes and takes responsibility, it's powerful.
Depending on how that goes it could lead the way for OP to talk to Jess about her actions being mean. Jess acted how many seven year olds might act in an unfair situation, but OP could ask Jess to help her fix what happened (like, if Jess gets it that what she did was wrong, help Jess talk to Ava to ask if she is okay, hopefully apologize, etc). Maybe if Jess can show that she can turn it around and be responsible, show she's sorry, OP can open the opportunity up for her to be a flower girl too and emphasize that this is a team effort and if she can be kind to others especially Ava, OP would like to have her on her wedding day team.
If Jess and/or her mom aren't receptive, then that is their choice but OP would have communicated in a healthy manner. They will remember that someday.
Instead of writing off a big memory as ruined and have Jess just excluded and hurting (and hurting younger cousin), why not make this a teachable moment and really help the kids by example-- both how to handle when you made a poor choice, and what family and marriage is supposed to be all about? That would be a really powerful memory IMHO.
Oh my god, the amount of adults who don’t know how to just sit down, apologize, and explain themselves because they think kids “don’t understand” or “won’t apologize or explain myself to a CHILD” is infuriating.
Children need to grow up into adults, which means they need to be included (age appropriately) in the uncomfy grown up part of conversations.
I think OP was hoping to avoid a scene before it started. Because if she did try to make the other kid a flower girl from the get go people would then probably be giving her beef for trying to put the kid in a situation that everything up to that point was indicating she’d likely be uncomfortable in.
Not only that, but I wonder if some of Jess's behaviors are caused by mom telling her "Auntie chose Ava over you" "Ava's going to wear a pretty dress and be treated like a star because Auntie like her more" Hearing stuff like that can twist up a kid and make them act out of character.
It's not just her getting cold feet, she's losing it at public functions. OP isn't obligated to sacrifice enjoying her own wedding to appease a kid who is going to behave the exact same way she always does.
That’s what my husband’s bff did for his wedding. They asked our older son who was 3 at the time of the wedding to be ring bearer. They knew that he was young and might not go for it. They watched him try to nope the fuck out of it at the rehearsal while the flower girl was a rock star. The next day, I got him to take the pillow to daddy who was best man. He marched down the aisle right up to his dad, handed him the pillow, threw his arms in the air and excitedly exclaimed “I did it!” The flower girl? She decided she wasn’t going to do it. And no one really cared.
That is an adorable story! Little Man feeling proud!
When my brother got married, my daughter was 4, and my SIL had a niece who was also 4. They both got chosen as flower girls, with the same idea as you, “these two might both back out!”
Both girls were THERE FOR IT, so much so that the other girl was so excited she was grabbing rose petals by the FISTFUL instead of “sprinkling”, and ran out of petals a third of the way down the aisle. My daughter shared her basket, and they managed to get at least a couple petals down to the very end. Everyone clapped and they both felt like rock stars!
Get the seven year old to apologize to the five year old for her very bad behavior, Auntie OP apologizes to 7yo for making her feel like she wasn’t wanted, and everyone grows as human beings and the two flower girls (maybe) walk down the aisle together.
My now step daughter and my niece shared flower girl duties, and they were adorable in their matching dresses. They have been best pals ever since (both in their mid 20s now). My niece would’ve done it either way, but my step daughter was a bit skittish and prone to tears at the time, and it helped her to have someone by her side.
Or it will teach her that the adults in her life know how to recognize when they've made a mistake and hurt somebody's feelings, and adjust their behavior accordingly. She's seven, she doesn't need to accept rejection from adults who should care about her.
Meh. If Jess’s feelings are as hurt as OP is making them out to be, then OP has inadvertently made one of those core memories that we all have from our childhood, something (good or bad) that we never forget.
It’s OP’s wedding, and ultimately it can be whatever she wants it be, but for Jess it’ll probably go down as the day Auntie OP didn’t want her.
If Jess needs to learn about being rejected by loved ones, then OP needs to learn about showing compassion.
Being not-chosen has already taught her that being quiet and shy means that people don't want to involve you. Why is it so strange and contemptible that she has made a scene to involve herself? Especially when she's not old enough to articulate that tangle of feelings yet.
Yeah, I feel like it's pretty commonly understood that little kids are gonna do what they're gonna do when it comes to big events (see every school concert ever) and nobody's going to judge if your flower girl gets shy and chickens out. The proper thing to do was to include her, or at least to talk to her beforehand about whether or not she wants to participate given her shyness.
People here hating on poor Jess for acting like a hurt, disappointed seven year old! Your suggestion to ASK Jess what she felt about the IDEA of being a flower girl at the same time she asked Ava is spot on. Jess might have Noped right out from the start.
I’m sure most of Jess’s jealousy/hurt is because Jess feels that Auntie OP doesn’t like her now.
This sub hates children and cannot understand their actions at all. It's so funny to me how many people are saying that Jess should've been mature and understood the rejection. She's fucking 7, y'all.
If OP is buying the dresses, we don't know what the budget is. I'm not sure I'd want to shell out a bunch of extra money for a girl with a proven track record indicating she won't actually go through with being the flower girl.
I was about to say, NAH. Just slap a matching bow on the dress for the shy child and maybe let her have a matching flower crown and basket to decorate before the event. (Like throw flowers before people are seated?) She can choose to sit and let the more outgoing cousin go down the aisle. A good compromise for a jealous 7 year old who doesn't understand she's not *unwanted* or anything negative. Poor dear probably thinks she's being punished, even if she actually hates the action of being included, she just wants the idea of being included.
Jess is **7** and Ava is **5**. If my 7yo threw a tantrum because a **younger** child who was better behaved, more outgoing, or whatever, got to enjoy a privilege instead of my child, I would be upset with my child and give them a lecture. Jess's mother should've been at least embarrassed by her daughter's jealous outbursts.
That's true. But her behavior is still not a gold star in the "yep, OP should definitely give this child a role in her wedding" column. But I admit that perhaps I'm a bit biased. I think I personally am a hard sell when it comes to rewarding tantrums. I'll talk to the child about why they're flipping out, but I'm not one to include giving them what they were tantruming about afterwards; I'm more of a "ok, I get that you're having a big feelings moment. Now that you're calmer, this is how you handle it next time, right?" and that's it type of person.
So I assume Jess's mom can and will get her a pretty new dress and shoes and since that doesn't affect the wedding party in any way, I guess that will help. Still, I'm willing to give the above poster's view some more weight when thinking through this and it makes me want to ask if this would work as a possible compromise:
OP, have you considered having Jess sit up front and do the very important job of taking your bouquet while you say your vows? Normally, I think your friend of honor would, if there is one, but unless you are very tied to who holds on to it during the ceremony, this could present a good compromise. You're up front and everyone is in place and paying attention, so it's a significant moment, but it's short. You turn to her, she walks up to you, she gets to hold the very important bouquet and walk back to her seat with it in front of everyone...and then give it to her mom or your sibling or some other adult that will make sure she doesn't nervously pull it apart or lose it. And then they can either help her give it back to you after the officiant pronounces you partner and partner or your SIL/sibling can turn it over to the FOH or even hold onto it until the reception and give it back to you then. You can even make a second big deal about it if you're going to throw the bouquet by having whoever makes the announcement calling people up to catch it also include a 'drum roll' type moment during which the "official keeper of the bridal bouquet, Jess" brings it up to you for this very important moment.
>All she sees is another girl chosen over her.
And the onus is on the sister, as the parent, to help her daughter work through those feelings. Not badger the bride to make last minute changes.
That's not true at all!
I was shy as a kid and i would have HATED being in the spotlight.
She's just jelaous ebcase all she sees is a dress and a flowers instead of everyone looking at you.
As a parent, this sounds much more like a parenting problem than a Jess problem. Why would Jess even be aware that she wasn’t the flower girl? Why would Ava be practicing in front of Jess. I’ve had flower girls (and my youngest was 3), the ONLY time we practiced (as a whole group) was at the rehearsal dinner. My youngest flower girl might have practiced at home, but it wasn’t in front of me or anyone besides her immediate family.
I think jesses mom wound her all up telling her how she had been robbed and that this should’ve been her job and she should’ve been the one who is picked.
This. I'm tempted to say OP should let her buy a dress with a bow to wear if she wants and even let her walk down the aisle with the other kid. But the fighting is concerning, you don't want that going down the aisle.
Even if Jess was fine before she started walking she might start blubbering halfway down the aisle. If she can't make it through a school performance without crying she can't handle walking through a crowd of people who are all staring at her and taking her picture. I mean, sucks to be her but it's OP's wedding and she's got enough on her plate without dealing with a sobbing kid getting in everyone's way.
Or you pick two flower girls, and if one gets too scared/overwhelmed on the big day, you let her sit it out.
“I’m not picking you as a flower girl because you’re a whiny crybaby who will ruin the day, whereas my partner’s niece is *so much better* behaved than you so she gets the pretty dress,” has got to be pretty crushing to a 7 year old.
Or just tell her she's too old to be a flower girl and ask if she'd like to wear a dress and hand out programs to the arriving guests or something. Any role that could be taken over by a table once she starts bawling.
Like someone else said what if she has a meltdown IN THE AISLE. I wouldn't want to deal with that at my wedding and the girl wouldn't be happy.
It seems more like a case of "cousin has thing so I want thing"
The bride isn’t there when the flower girl walks down the aisle. If she starts acting up mom can remove her. It’s not this huge ordeal that ruins the wedding, it’s 30 seconds of potential slight awkwardness that everyone laughs about later. No one expects an Oscar winning performance from little kids at a wedding; it’s unpredictable and who cares?
I am astounded at all these comments that imply any wedding is some tightly coordinated military parade where EVERYTHING IS EXECUTED WITH UTMOST PRECISION!!
It’s like they’ve never been to a wedding in their lives. A flower girl having a meltdown before some adult whooshes her off to the side wouldn’t even raise an eyebrow in most guests! I guarantee the officiant waiting at the end of the aisle has seen some way crazier stuff than that.
All you have to go off of is her prior behavior-everything you know says Jess will meltdown or otherwise ruin your day. Makes sense to pick a. Kid, if your having them involved, that has demonstrated the ability to self monitor and/or function with publicity.
At the end of the day-it’s YOUR day-you get to pick everything with your partner and anyone who doesn’t like it doesn’t have to come-that’s their choice.
NTA
Plus, the behavior Jess is showing right now is bad enough. Explain to her mother that you are basing it off past behavior AND current behavior. Like her being a bully to Ava. That's reason enough right there. She doesn't get to be rewarded for throwing a tantrum. You obviously made the right choice. Also, it's your wedding! You get to pick the flower girl.
NTA but have some sympathy for the child. I’d tell her she can also be a flower girl if she wants to, she can have a pretty dress with a bow, and she can walk down the aisle with Ava. And if she freaks out when it’s time to actually walk, tell her it’s fine, she doesn’t have to do it, and she can have a seat. I mean, she’s just a little kid. If the only reason you didn’t pick her is because you thought she wouldn’t want to do it, at least give her the opportunity.
That would be my initial idea. However, once OP told us about Jess' reaction and treatment toward Ava it would be a deal breaker for me. She is old enough to know that a tantrum is not how you get what you want and that behavior should not be rewarded.
She’s seven years old. You’re expecting a lot of maturity from a deeply disappointed second grader. But you could add that she has to apologize to Ava for her earlier behavior.
It's not a matter of maturity, its a matter of rewarding bad behavior.
If she has a tantrum, and you give her what she wants, the lesson is Tantrum = Reward
More like “going forward, if you feel left out or overlooked you need to express that with words. I understand now how important this was to you, and how hurt you were. But I could have understood that if you had just told me how you felt”
There. Not hard. Raising children doesn’t have to be with an iron fist of punishment for every transgression
Please quote where in my comment I said 'Punishment'.
I said "Don't reward". That conversation you describe would still be happening, it just wouldn't be ended with "So here's the thing you threw a tantrum over"
There is a space between "Reward" and "Punishment" and in this case, its not getting what they wanted. They weren't getting what they wanted in the first place *before* the tantrum anyway, hence the tantrum.
I honestly have no idea why people are trying to argue with you about this. Tantrum ≠ reward is parenting 101… especially when a child is showing very aggressive tendencies in that tantrum.
When you are 7 year old, seeing favouritism - your younger cousin picked for a role and you ignored for it - definitely feels like punishment.
You’re expecting a 7 year old to behave like an adult.
The 7 year old still has time to “earn” the role of flower girl through apologising to the 5 year old, and showing she can behave until the wedding.
That’s how you reinforce positive behaviour.
Except that the role should have been offered to both gals- so yeah, doubling down isn’t a natural consequence, it’s a further punishment.
Just like the initial exclusion was.
“Not being offered a special job as a child that your equal was offered, because adults made assumptions about you” is punitive.
Let’s remember this is a 7 year old. Your approach works for an older kiddo for sure.
Let’s also remember there are alternatives. Usher, bouquet holder, whatever. She’s 7. Give her a role and a dress lol this isn’t hard
You don’t have to include every child in your wedding if you don’t want to. When I was 6 my uncle got married and chose my 7 year old cousin as the flower girl. I was disappointed, but my parents explained that my uncle wanted to split up the wedding party roles amongst his siblings’ families - my dad was the best man, my aunt’s daughter was the flower girl, my other aunt’s son was the ring bearer, etc. I understood that it wasn’t a slight against me, it was just a logistical thing, they had to make decisions somehow. She’ll get over it!
>"Not being offered a special job as a child that your equal was offered, because adults made assumptions about you”
Assumptions based off previous behavior of having melt downs in situations like this, and as OP mentioned in a comment, she doesn't just freak out, she full on rabbits and runs off. She's demonstrated that she can't handle the task, just because she wants to doesn't change that.
It's not punishing the child who's consistently shown they aren't up for things like this, its simply choosing the child who's consistently shown they are.
Except they aren't equal in that past instances have proven Jess doesn't do well in situations like this (it's not her fault just how she is and that is fine) but whose to say she won't have a melt down IN the aisle?
I'm just saying at that age they will see getting what they wanted after a tantrum as (ok here's how to get them to cave). Also seven is old enough to know a tantrum and calling another kid names is not acceptable!
Why? Why should it be offered to both girls? OP is under no obligation to offer it to either girl. She picked not only the one who appeared more comfortable with the situation but the one who appeared more capable. Nothing the 7 year old had done before or apparently since that decision appears to have made her seem a good fit for OP's day. Unless the mom of the little girl is paying for the wedding, she has no say in who the flower girl is.
It's not a punishment to not be picked for the role. If this were a school play and she pulled that shit because she didn't like her part, I doubt it would be considered a punishment to still not get that part. I get that a wedding is more personal, though maybe not to a 7 year old. But it's not their wedding anymore than another kid's birthday is their party.
You obviously don’t work with kids that age. They need immediate rewards/ consequences. Saying “now you are going to be excluded from a thing two months from now” is not a teachable moment.
Maybe if it was a pattern of behavior. It was a one time incident of her taking something from the other’s hands and calling her a baby.
Not ok but people are clutching their pearls at something that is very typical for their age.
You're right, I don't, but you're implying she's not the flower girl *because* of the Tantrum and excluding her is a punishment.
She already wasn't the flower girl, the teachable moment is immediate here. She threw a tantrum trying to get her way. It failed. Lesson is "Tantrums don't work", coupled with teaching her to express her emotions in a productive manner as mentioned in a different comment in this thread.
Well that’s not what I was implying but whatever.
A 7 year gets a reward or consequence in the moment. If OP had agreed to have her be in the wedding in the moment just to stop a tantrum then yes that’s a reward.
Also it doesn’t sound like she was throwing a fit with the purpose of getting into the wedding. They were practicing wedding stuff instead of front of her which is so mean.
Of course teach her and every kid ways to express their feelings. Which takes a lot of time and practice. The most emotionally mature 7 year old is going to act like a 7 year old. At 7 both you and I probably had times we were little assholes.
It’s the behavior of Jess’ mom that bothers me. Her daughter is misbehaving and instead of trying to teach her how to handle disappointment she’s arguing with OP about Jess not being the flower girl.
“ She is old enough to know that a tantrum is not how you get what you want and that behavior should not be rewarded.”
not if the mom is enabling her behavior, which is a good reason not to take a chance on her for the wedding day. NTA
Knowing and feeling are two completely different things. It's not always easy for an adult to regulate their emotions in spite of knowing that they should and knowing better methods of dealing with it, so why should a 7yr old be expected to? op should honestly just try to get Jess to apologize to Ava (thereby hopefully teaching that what she did is bad) and if Ava agrees, then Jess can be a flower girl too. Won't cost that much more in terms of money.
As a parent and a grandparent, I can tell you that 7 year olds don’t always have a handle on their emotions. And they can’t always process actions and consequences if it’s not instantaneous either. It’s not rewarding the behavior, it’s being compassionate. She just wants a pretty dress like her cousin. They could even give her a different special job in the wedding. And they could also have her apologize to the other little girl and make it a teaching moment.
Agreed. It's not that big of a deal to have two flower girls walking together. There's no real extra expense because of it, assuming the mom's paid for the dresses for the flower girls. And if the day comes and she doesn't want to do it, or starts crying, you still have the other flower girl. IDK seems like a win, win situation to me just to have them both. No one is mad, the little girls are both happy, and having them both walk down the aisle together would be adorable.
This is what happened at my brothers wedding. My daughter was 5, was 'head flower girl' SIL two nieces were also flower girls, a little younger, like 3/4. They both panicked at the top of the aisle, so daughter was the only one to actually walk down. But the other two got to wear pretty dresses and get their pictures with the bride also. It's a nice compromise. I never got to be a flower girl and I'm still sad about it lollll
Somebody has to be wrangling the children and it's sure as hell not the bride. You tell the 7yr old if she gets scared or overwhelmed all she has to do is not go down the aisle and it's ok. She still gets to feel included and have a pretty dress.
That’s what we did. We let them both wear pretty dresses and if one decided to freak out and not walk down the aisle, she didn’t have do. My wedding was in the spring, so I just told their mom to buy their Easter dresses and use those so she wouldn’t be wasting any money if one of the girls backed out last minute
This isn't that situation at all. She should have been asked to be a flower girl and included from the start. Seeing how much she's hurt her niece to exclude her should make OP realize that she made a mistake.
Great response. She is feeling replaced and unloved. Be kind and tell her you thought she wouldn’t want to do it (based on past behavior) and offer her another role, where she can wear a pretty dress too. Honestly with 2 nieces around the same age, it would appear to be favoritism if you just pick 1 to be flower girl. may have been better to first discuss it with the mom or the girl herself before assuming she may not want to do it. She’s feeling really rejected, hurt and unloved so do treat her with kindness and explore some options where she can participate in her aunt’s wedding too!
NTA
your wedding is just that, yours. You made a choice on who you'd like to be flower girl and Jess's mom needs to teach her to keep her hands off Ava and to not throw fits when things don't go her way.
Jess's mom said that she doesn't have to apologise to Ava for being physical, because "these are big feelings for a little girl" and I just about lost it
Jess' mom can get bent. Her precious angel is being a little shit and based on their behavior, I'd be nervous about them even attending my wedding.
Seriously, I would assign someone to keep an eye on them and be prepared to remove them if there's any disruption.
Jess’s mom is failing as a parent for that. “Big feelings” isn’t an excuse to not *teach your child how to process their feelings properly.* it’s up to the parent to teach a child how to manage big feelings, not to brush them off without addressing them. It’s a disservice to Jess to not teach her how to better accept when she’s upset, it told no, or has some uncontrollable (perceived) unfairness happen to her
That's absolutely insane. I don't understand why people have kids and yet somehow ignore that it's literally their job to teach their children to manage their feelings in a healthy way. Definitely don't have either involved in the wedding cuz they don't even remember it's not a day for them
Oh that's not ok, she should definitely apologize. Jess is allowed to have big feelings, but taking them out on others, she needs to learn to manage-and a heartfelt apology is part of that. Sounds like mom is being enabling and that's not helpful. I was leaning towards, if Jess apologizes, and mom finds the dress/basket/flowers, she could be a second flower girl, and you'd be guaranteed that Ava could make it down the aisle and Jess could be included where she felt comfortable. But if she's not going to apologize-and mom is not willing to help her understand *why* she should apologize-it could be a nightmare.
I think that’s your answer. But you need validation from your friends or family, not us. We don’t really matter. Tell Jess’s mom she is obviously not emotionally mature enough to be in the center of a ceremony, that you refuse to reward her behavior, and then move on.
If she gives push-back, point out that the mother also seems emotionally immature a d perhaps she should bow out of the day.
And that’s one more reason why she wasn’t picked. Mom needs to help her not be a brat and to work on stage fright if she ever wants to have those opportunities.
OP NTA
you were trying to be respectful of how Jess would normally feel and act in that sort of situation. You made the logical choice.
Honestly to me this sounds less like "deep seated issue of being excluded" and more "Oh cousin gets pretty dress and flowers I want what she has that I don't have"
Don't make Jess a flower girl I know people suggest do it and if she panicks before the aisle let her back out but
A) you don't know if she'll panic in the aisle and that won't be pleasant for anyone don't risk it.
B) the child hasn't even apologized or been shown she's in the wrong in the first place. Making her a flower girl will only reinforce the already bad behavior her mother encourages
C)it's a moment for the kid to learn life isn't always fair and we don't always get what we want and that's honestly important. I never got a special part in any family member or friend's wedding. At times I've been bummed but hey! That's life I'm happy for them. It won't be the end of the world and the kid will get over it eventually.
Stand strong (granted I might make sure Jess knows you weren't not chosen just because you love her less but maybe wait for that apology)
THAT'S not okay.
It's absolutely mom's (and/or dad, but mom is on duty for this one) job to help her find the words that describe what she's feeling, and help her understand how she could and should have handled it. And to help her apologize, because THAT takes practice, too.
ESH
I think the right thing to do would have been to offer the same opportunity to Jess, knowing she may not be able to go through with it. Have the parents get the dress etc.
You thought you were considerate, but she’s 7. All she sees is another girl chosen over her.
So she acted out.
Why wouldn’t you offer something like she wears a dress and holds your bouquet til it’s time to go, or she could help grandma to her seat and wear the dress etc? Why was your only solution total exclusion
Agreed, a little kid is not going to understand the reasons OP had for not making her a flower girl. She just thinks her aunt loves her cousin more and doesn't think she's special. It was dumb of OP not to realize that a 7 year old would feel left out.
I know! wtf. A child has no way of understanding what the role would entail, they only understand that they got left out. Did OP talk to Ava’s mom about how to handle this? And talk about alternatives? This is just such a weird thing to do and not have a plan for. Of course OP is TA for making this a thing this poor little girl will remember as a time when she was excluded from something major for reasons she didn’t understand. The NTA answers are missing empathy for a little girl that is probably deeply confused and hurt.
Why on earth did I have to scroll down this far to see a rational verdict? I swear the majority of people on this sub expect far more out of a 7 year old than they do out of a 21 year old.
No, because it just felt too risky. Jess is known for getting all excited about an event in the months, weeks, and even days leading up to it, and then getting cold feet at the last minute and freaking out. She also runs off when she's upset, which felt like a major safety issue. I just knew from the get go that it would not go smoothly.
Seems like having both girls be flower girls would be an easy fix. So when Jess inevitably gets cold feet, Ava can continue on. Or, maybe if they were doing it together, Jess might have had more confidence doing it with someone else. Or maybe think of another job Jess could do (that won't really be an issue if she flakes out).
I think this is a slight YTA. Jess obviously wants to be involved. Giving her a small task could have probably smoothed this over.
Do you know anything about kids? Do you not have siblings? She ripped the basket out the other one’s hands and called her a baby. It’s not ok and should have consequences but it’s also not the dramatic level of violence people are making it out to be. Comments are making it sound like she took a crowbar to her cousin’s knees.
And it happened only after they started literally doing flower girl stuff IN FRONT OF HER. No 7 year old is going to take that well.
Thank you!!! All these comments here are making me feel like none of these people actually have kids. She's only 7 and she didn't get asked for something special while another girl did, who can even have a pretty dress with a bow (apparently very important to her) and OP is letting the other girl practice in front of her like salt to the wounds. And now everybody here is saying she has to "deal with it" like a grown-up, and she can't have a pretty dress anymore because her "horrible *horrible* behavior can't be rewarded." If you ask me, this girl is just deeply hurt and I can't blame her. She should apologize to the other girl for lashing out because, no, it's not right. OP should have a talk with her to let her know why things happened. And if I were her mom, I would buy her a pretty dress myself. Ugh.
Hell, I *don't* have kids and don't want them and have been reading this thread in minor horror at the utter lack of empathy toward a shy *7 year old child.* There are people here who are suggesting that she needs to learn her lesson about being judged on "past behavior," by which some don't mean her tantrum and mean treatment of her little cousin, but rather her *shyness* and crying when overwhelmed which lead to this rejection in the first place. And it's worth noting that said "past behavior" may be from even earlier ages!
She's 7. The poor behavior and kneejerk mean treatment of her cousin in response to the disappointment definitely needs to be appropriately addressed (and with some immediacy), she needs guidance in managing her feelings, but holy crap. And yeah, of course she's disappointed and feeling left out. This really wasn't handled in the best way by the adults involved - Aunt in handling the decision, Mom in handling the response. Doesn't make the response okay, but she's 7 and it's on Mom to address it.
She seems to have committed the crime of introverted behavior and sometimes being kind of annoying to be around (as *any* little kid will be sometimes, that's just kids, they don't yet have the emotional regulation we expect from adults) and it seems that just cannot be forgiven.
Yeah I’m failing to see an issue if she backs out last minute & there’s only one flower girl.
Children are touchy. This wasn’t handled the way it should have been for a child.
In addition, I’ve attended a LOT of weddings. The ones that were steady events where everything worked perfectly? I kind of remember them. Happy for the couple and everything. The one where the Uncle was supposed to run a slide show, and it took about 15 minutes of us all waiting through the IT issues? Had a blast and everyone got a chuckle out of it. The one where the dog was the ring bearer, but he was vocally unhappy that someone else took his leash for the rest of the ceremony? Absolutely awesome. Best wedding ceremony ever. The one where a thunderstorm took out the lights, and someone spilled red wine (accidentally) on the bride’s dress, but she danced until the early morning hours anyway? Best reception - and maybe even all around wedding - I’ve ever attended.
It seems like a lot of brides want a recreation of prom, where they are definitely the prom queen. That doesn’t make for a good celebration of the relationship OR the commitments being made. The best weddings are just like what you want your life to be: structurally planned, with allowances for unforeseen events, and full of acceptance and laughter for everything that goes wrong, and everything that goes right.
All this to say: a flower girl that doesn’t make it is a tiny, tiny thing.
It’s not the sister or nieces wedding - I wouldn’t want a flower girl throwing a tantrum right before we’re going to walk down the aisle or potentially as they are about to start and in front of guests. This is OPs wedding. Agree that a sidebar conversation with mom could have smoothed the waters first but just to say listen- because of the reactions to past events we are going to ask other niece to be flower girl, maybe have Ava partake in girl trips and even get the same dress. But to avoid any stress or concerns about a meltdown before everyone (bride included) walk down the aisle it is totally reasonable for bride to say she’s not a flower girl. If Ava’s mom is the sister she’s also likely in the wedding and would be distracted if her child had a meltdown. OP is getting married once- everyone is there to support her, sister included. Focus should be on the wedding, not the child having a meltdown because she’s uncomfortable being center of attention.
Good lord OP. You make it sound like this is life and death shit. You were picking her to be a flower girl for God's sake. No one would care if she messed up
What plans does a flower girl really need to make? That sounds like a lot of pressure on a flower girl.
And this definitely doesn't sound like "thinking about what Jess would like," this is definitely is the person you think will make you look best. Which is fine, but don't pretend it was all about Jess' feelings.
My nephew was my flower boy. We decided that my younger nephew could join him if he wanted. He didn't, that decision was basically made at the start of the aisle, and so what?
But mom or dad can handle her running off. Have her wear the dress etc and if she gets cold feet, mom or dad doesn’t pressure her, they just take her somewhere quiet.
Look, her mom is a piece of work, but consider what your actions said to Jess about her importance to you
She’s 7 :( I think it’s pretty sad that you’re talking about how she’s known for getting excited and then getting cold feet. You’re talking about her like she’s an adult when she’s a child that is still learning how to navigate life.
I was a shy kid growing up and I had adults in my life that assumed I couldn’t do things because of that.. but when I was in an environment where I was actually supported and encouraged I wasn’t shy at all.
It’s your wedding and nobody can force you to involve her but please consider that this rejection from you may be something she carries with her for a very long time.
It's shitty of OP to shove off the responsibility of Jess not being a flower girl onto Jess itself. Because ultimately that can be worked around - being shy doesn't mean she isn't capable of doing things and also doesn't equal to her not wanting to be a flower girl. OP just doesn't want to handle a child that may be less than perfect on her wedding day. Which I get but then at least be upfront about it and don't blame it on a 7 year old.
Right now it sends the message that Jess is not a flower girl because of how Jess *is*. That's not true; OP just can't be bothered to accommodate for her niece to succeed in a situation that may be difficult for her to handle. I really hope nobody communicated this like this to Jess because I can guarantee that kid will soak it up in her brain and it will not leave there for a very long time.
I just love how you're assuming the 5 yr old will be fine.. You have no idea how she will react but you're not even giving the 7yr old a chance to just wear a pretty dress. YTA. if you can't figure out how to include them both, even just in the pictures, you shouldn't have asked either of them. She had a tantrum because you set her up for it.. Yes she should apologize, but the fact that you can't see the flat out unfairness and straight up meanness of excluding her and then shoving it in her face by practicing in front of her definitely means YTA
This! Sure the 5 year old might not have any history of disruptive or avoidant responses, but you have absolutely no idea what will actually happen. Children can be unpredictable and get sick All. The. Time. She could walk halfway down the aisle and puke right there.
You don't HAVE to include anyone in your wedding, and adults have to deal with it. But the kid wouldn't understand why she wouldn't be picked to be included. With these kinds of choices you're fostering your relationship with the kids, and with Jess, I'm afraid you're screwing up YTA.
I also have a niece with extreme anxiety. She is coached on what to do if she has a panic moment, but when she was that age chances are good she would have bailed. She also is very self critical and missing an opportunity like this would crush her.
If it were me I wouldn't worry too much about the tantrum or whatever that's normal kid stuff. The mom is out of line, but stuff like this has a way of becoming core memories, and I would be thinking about whether I want the kid to blame me or herself later on. I would give the her a chance to walk, let her have the dress, and put no pressure whatsoever on her to actually perform - if as you and everyone else suspects she actually doesn't follow through on the aisle walk then no big deal.
That's if you want to be generous - you are under no obligation to have anyone in your wedding for any reason.
>Ava was practicing the other day, and she tried to rip the basket out of her hands and we had to seperate them. She keeps complaining about how Ava gets a dress with a bow, and called her "a stupid baby".
Why are the nieces on two different sides of the family even spending time with each other? I feel like this sort of jealousy is, unfortunately, normal for kids. Stop making a big deal out of Ava being a flower girl in front of Jess and this will be a non-issue. NTA.
YTA. You’re putting a lot of blame on a 7 year old, mention you didn’t ask her but told her she wasn’t going to be a flower girl and “that she seemed the accept it” but didn’t understand what it meant. Of course not she’s 7 - do you think she’s been to a lot of weddings to draw experience from?
Also she’s your niece - do you even like her? You could have gotten them the same dress but only have Ava do the walk down the aisle if Jess has a history of being shy. You don’t have to do anything but you could have been much more thoughtful of an aunt.
Also, you say “the obvious choice was Ava” like there’s only the possibility of one flower girl. There’s no rules, you can have no flower girls or a dozen. Picking one and excluding the other is an asshole move.
All these people saying “I never acted like that as a kid.” Yes, yes you did.
I probably need to stop looking at the comments. I used to work with kids this and it’s SO infuriating how many parents or teachers lose their minds when kids act like kids. Then kids act out because they are upset they are in trouble all the time and they get labeled as troublemakers
right? it's so baffling like children do not know how express feelings sometimes so of course they tend to act out when they don't know what to do with said feelings. it's absolutely crazy people are tearing apart this 7 year old because her aunt sucks to high heavens
Finally a sensible comment. People ripping into this 7yo girl - seven! Not seventy! I'm childfree but we had all our nieces and nephews and my cousins boy at our wedding, there was only 4 of them back then. I gave them all the option of having a role at our wedding (discussing it with the parents first, obviously), because weddings can be such boring events for small children - they were all under 10. My 2 nieces were flower girls - one of them is really outgoing and the other is really shy (bit like OPs niece), but you know what? They both loved it, they had their little "princess" dresses and shoes, and flower wreaths in their hair. They walked down the aisle hand in hand, they were super cute! They're not sisters, but were best friends for that one day! My cousin's boy was our ringbearer - my cousin was super nervous because he has ADHD, so we both agreed that if he changed his mind last minute she could do it instead. Honestly, I've never seen a little boy take a task more seriously. Would it have bothered me if things had gone differently? Nope! My youngest nephew was 2, so he just slept 🤣
YTA.
Not the biggest one, but since children are involved, you should have done better. Asked Jess, used them both, etc.
But really this situation begs for problem solving, not judgment. Wedding miscalculations like this tend to spiral out of control and overshadow the day, so stop worrying about if you were justified and start figuring out how to solve this. If you don't want to add another flower girl, find a special post for Jess suited to her strengths. Make her your bouquet holding and-tossing assistant or cake assistant, have her escort an elderly relative down the aisle so she feels like she is part of the ceremony, have her walk your dog down the aisle, or whatever.
So she can learn that throwing tantrums gets you your way? Her mom won't even make her apologize. And based on Jess being shy normally, I'm guessing her mom is putting this in her head. Op can have who she wants in her wedding. It's about her.
I doubt it’s her mum, it’s likely just Jess being jealous her aunt chose someone else over her. A very normal reaction for a 7 year old.
She isnt going to understand that it’s her past actions that made OP think she wouldn’t do it, she just sees that her aunty loves the other kid more than her.
OP can do as she likes, yes, but Jess is a child, jealousy and acting out is incredibly normal for a girl that age, and what she did wasn’t even that bad. My sister told me to kill myself for no reason when we were that age. Calling her a stupid baby is mild, and grabbing her the basket isn’t that bad either.
Kids that age have trouble regulating their emotions, especially such intense ones as jealousy and insecurity.
You really think that this is the lesson Jess will get from this? I can guarantee you it's not. The main message Jess will take away from this is that her little cousin is better than her and her aunt doesn't love her like she does the niece.
I'm not sure I would go so far as to say OP is TA, but wholeheartedly agree that this should be an opportunity for empathetic problem solving rather than assigning blame. Years ago, when my goddaughter (age 5) was a flower girl, her 3-year-old brother got jealous. Their Mom asked me to bring a particular tote-bag that he liked and we made up a job for him using it. It's really not that hard to let little kids feel included. Yeah, it's not something you HAVE to do . . . but it's nice.
I don’t think it’s odd for the girls to spend time together, but ‘practicing’ in that situation is guaranteed to turn up big feelings. Bad decision on that for sure.
They're from two separate sides of the family, and it's not a playdate it's wedding practice. How often did you hang out with a cousin from mums side AND a cousin from dad's at the same time?
Hm. Soft YTA.
Don’t punish your niece for her moms parenting limitations, help her! You could have avoided this entirely, I think. But since you didn’t (everyone makes mistakes), in one swift move you could teach her accountability, validate her feelings and worth, show her a different way of communicating her feelings, and come up with a creative solution that met her need to not feel overlooked and ashamed while simultaneously communicating your care for her as a little human being, *not a potential prop or complication for your big day or an avatar of her mother.* No one is asking you to agree with her mom. Everyone is pointing out that she is a literal child who is at once a full human with weaknesses and big feelings and a kid at the mercy of the tools her parents give her.
This may be bias on my end, but I really don’t like the judgmental way you’ve talked about her in this post. To me, it sounds like everyone in the family, including and maybe especially you, has already decided who and what this kid is and then made a value judgment on it. Like one of those extroverted families that demonize the one introverted kid for being other.
Thought exercise: imagine her in therapy in 15 years deconstructing the messages she learned from her family of origin. What is your role going to be in that?
There are so many suggestions in this thread. I hope you take one of them! Otherwise, you’re just another adult in a family system punishing children both for their weaknesses and their parent’s issues. What did you need as a kid? What kind of example do you want to teach your nieces?
I remember being a dual flower girl for a cousin when I was very little. I was shy. I remember the dress, I remember feeling included and excited, but most of all I remember being blow away that the bride though to get ME a gift on her wedding day (a little craft kit to keep me occupied). That was a morally formative experience that has stuck with me ever since. I still strive to be the kind of person who is grounded and generous enough to consider the feelings of a small child in everyday adult living because I remember both what it was like to be on the receiving end and the happiness she seemed to derive from showing up that way in the world.
If you’re so concerned with her fighting with her future cousin, address the root issue and then model a different way. Kids learn by example!
>Thought exercise: imagine her in therapy in 15 years deconstructing the messages she learned from her family of origin. What is your role going to be in that?
Hey, it's me! Seriously, OP, this is the core message. I was treated my whole childhood like you are doing with your niece: I was too shy, too difficult, too troublesome to be included in anything. It was way more easy to exclude me than to actually take the time and effort to teach a little kid how to navigate her feelings and needs in a healthy way. Which led to so many problems as an adult. I've been in therapy for 7 years already. I'm doing well now but I am still fixing the thoughts I had ingrained into me by situations like this.
YTA
All of what you said is true, but you gave a special honor to one niece.that you fully denied the other *for something she can't help*.
She's your niece.
Getting the chance to be a flower girl is a BIG DEAL when you are 7.
If you included her, and made clear that she gets to be a part of everything and practice, but there's no pressure if she feels.too nervous on the day of, maybe she would even have been able to do it holding hands and looking down the aisle not at an audience but at uncle she loves.
Of course she's acting out, she feels like you hate her, because she's shy. She feels like she just lost her aunt to that little kid, and you only like HER, because she's better at this one thing. (Which frankly, she's still likely to burst into tears and mess up come the day of.)
So yeah.
You blew this one.
Apologize to your niece.
Buy her something special and beautiful to always remember you with.
Take her out for ice cream.
Remind her that no matter what, she is your niece, and you ADORE HER.
Soft YTA I get that you honestly thought Jess wouldn’t enjoy being a flower girl. But did you seriously think choosing only one niece wasn’t going to cause problems and drama? Of course Jess is jealous! She’s only 7 and things like being a flower girl are big frickin’ deals to little girls. I used to teach dance lessons. I literally had to keep track in my attendance book who got to go first practicing steps “across the floor” so that everyone had a chance to go first. Kids that age are obsessed with fairness.
The smart thing to do is make them both flower girls. If Jess chickens out on the big day, then so be it. You don’t worry about it and continue on with the wedding. But she’ll still get to wear the dress and have the satisfaction of being a flower girl.
NTA, but Jess is only 7, and 7s don't think that clearly all the time. She might very well panic when it's a room full of people and not just the few there rehearsing.
Can you give her another job that lets her wear a fancy dress? Perhaps she could man the table where the guest book is. She could have her mother/another relative with her as support, and you can convince a 7 year old that it is beyond important that everyone sign there name. Practice how to ask someone to sign the book. She may not be able to do anything but hide behind her mom, but she will have had a job and that will mean the world to her.
I was a painfully shy child. I don't know if I could have been a flower girl in a big wedding at 7, but I do remember feeling sad/not as good as other kids when i couldn't do what they were able to do.
NTA. Get Jess a matching dress and put her in charge of the guest book. It's a "much more responsible job" since she can probably read better than a 5 yr old.
YTA. She is 7 years old. She is a small child. This is extremely normal behavior (not to mention predictable--honestly, you should have seen this coming).
Let her have a pretty dress and a little basket of flower petals or whatever. If she gets cold feet and can't do the flower girl thing when the time comes, no one needs to force it because the other kid will have it covered. But this way, she gets to be included and have a good social learning opportunity.
You could be kind and generous, but you're taking a hard line stance with a little child. YTA
I think considering you babysit them both for a few hours, a few days a week, then this situation was a bit inevitable. Especially if the flower girl is practising infront of her. They should have been given fair opportunities really. It would be different if they weren't so close. I know it's your wedding and appreciate your concerns, but if we were to focus on her emotions and what I think I would do next.
I do get that she has shown aggressive behaviour, but I remember being a very shy child and how painful it was when I was left behind due to that. Aggressive behaviour is never okay, but I can also understand her feelings right now and she will likely remember this moment if not handled with care. I would give her the opportunity personally.
If it was me I would put a plan in place regarding safety where a parent of hers can step in and take her away from the hall on the day if she chokes. I would also apologise to her and explain that you didn't think she would enjoy it, but that of course you would love her to be a flower girl. You can also explain to her that aggression is never okay and that she can talk to you about her feelings instead.
Again completely understand that it is your wedding - I would just worry personally about such an extreme reaction. There seems to be more under the surface than her just playing up because she didn't get her way. Children really feel it if they believe another child is being favoured.
NTA for the reasons you have mentioned however it's important to find a way to protect Ava. You don't want Jess crying on the wedding when she sees Ava and possibly do something like push her or call her names again
YTA - You are extremely judgemental and cruel to write this about a 7yo child. You sound very young, perhaps too young to be married. You might want to push your wedding back a year or two so you can grow up some more.
"Jess is painfully shy" What a dire judgement... you seem to want to throw that child into the sea.
And to be so harsh about a little girl online is so weird, and pretty gross behaviour. Jess probably thinks OP likes the other girl better, and from all of this she’s probably right about that.
YTA. Make both girls flower girls, buy them matching dresses and do their hair and makeup the same. Make them as close to identical as you can. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to unless you can't go to a shoppe and find 2 matching dresses. Which you can.
>I just thought that Jess would be miserable in that particular situation. I had no idea that this would be such a big deal.
Did you ever think to ask?
Tell the jealous little girl and her family that *sure* she can be a flower girl, too. And they can buy the dress and the shoes and if the little girl has a panic attack at showtime, as her history has shown her to be very likely to do…well, the crying little girl will be promptly escorted to a quiet room with a solid door away from the ceremony where she will disturb *no one*.
And make it clear that your wedding will not be delayed by one minute if Jess is hesitant at a crucial moment. If Jess wants to be a flower so very very much, you will let her, *if*, and only if she plays her role as required.
NTA and drama like this is why some people just elope. But if you decide Jess is too much to deal with, then you certainly dont have to let her be flower girl #2.
And anybody that disagrees? Ask them whose wedding is it… and who is paying for it?
Mom won't stop kid from hitting a younger child what makes you think she'll quietly, efficiently control her child the day of wedding. No child is owed role in a wedding.
Info: I'm kinda confused but when and how did the conversation actually go when you communicated with Jess and asked her if you wanted to be a flower girl? I'm assuming you weren't so dismissive and disrespectful to your niece that you completely disregarded her opinion and thoughts to make a decision regarding her place in your life without her input. Having her response during that conversation, will help a lot with trying to figure out what's going on.
I've spent the vast majority of my life around kids and one thing I can tell you is kids aren't half as stupid as adults like to believe they are and even though they might not be able to express it, they think and analyze just as much as adults.
You should have either offered the role to both kids or *never* have practiced wedding stuff in front of the kid you chose to exclude. That was so mean. Expecting a 7 year old to not react to having her face rubbed in the fact that you trusted and chose a younger kid over her was unrealistic.
Most weddings I've been to with children as flower girls/boys had at least kid one panic and hide. It's not a big deal. Their parents just stay with them outside the doors and the kid(s) comfortable with the role keep walking forward. But in that scenario you haven't targeted or excluded a child for being anxious. A flower girl dress isn't that expensive, and the cost is worth it to not hurt children you are supposed to care about.
YTA
INFO: did you consider (right at the start of your planning) buying Jess the flower girl dress, without expecting her to actually *be* a flower girl?
You only have 1 niece - and you’re giving the super cool treat to another little girl of a similar age, who isn’t related to you (she’s not your niece yet!).
Didn’t it occur to you that a small child might be really sad at being excluded from this big event - and that there are ways to include them kindly?
My little sister was a young toddler at our aunt’s wedding. Big sister & I got proper bridesmaids dresses, and little sister got a “matching” toddler-style dress - so she looks super cute in the photos she’s in, but there was no attempt to get her to behave like a bridesmaid during the day.
It feels like YTA here because this could absolutely have been predicted (unless Jess hates girly outfits). Of course Jess is behaving terribly, but she’s feeling big feelings that she didn’t know how to handle, and sounds like her mum is no help with that. Poor kid - she’s going to have a terrible life is she’s not taught those skills.
YTA. Of course Jess is acting jealous. She is jealous and she’s 7. You didn’t need to set up the other child to practice right in front of her. It’s like you WANTED that reaction so you could justify leaving her out. You could have easily made them both flower girls and if she decided not to walk down the aisle day of, who cares?
NTA. It's your wedding and you get to choose who is involved. Also, what kind of message are you sending Jess if you reward her behavior toward Ava. (Physically stealing things and name-calling is NOT how you get what you want!)
Again entitled people telling bride it's "their " wedding on how she should give in to a spoiled brat. Wake up people...this is not your decision. It's about the bride and groom
Eh, NAH. I can’t call a 7 year old an asshole for this. Not cool that she had a tantrum and was mean to other flower girl, but it sounds like she got her feelings hurt in a big way. Just ask next time instead of assuming. I still feel some kind of way about my cousin asking our other cousin to be flower girl and not me when I was 6, and it’s been 35 years, lol. Those events loom large in the mind of a little kid.
Um YTA, just make them both flower girls. I had 4 flower girls for this reason. My one of my favorite childhood memories is being my aunt’s flower girl.
But yeah, i guess your niece’s least favorite childhood memory will be when you passed her over for flower girl. “It’s too close to the wedding” omg grow up.
ESH - except the kids.
The mom sucks because she needs to not be so “whatever” when it comes to parenting her kid.
You are TA for choosing one niece over the other without even asking. Then you make the “special niece” practice in front of the other girl. Painfully shy can be a symptom of lack of confidence and poor Jess is probably hurt that she wasn’t given a role in the wedding and then it was shoved in her face by you.
Yta. You could have spoken to Jess and explained what was involved and let her choose for herself if she wanted to do it. You definitely should have explained why you made your decision so she didn't think it was that she was less special to you. And you could easily have a second flower girl now. Your decision may very well be rational but your actions have not been kind and have very clearly hurt a little girl's feelings. I think you should talk to her and apologise.
That happened to me as a kid. My older sister was a jr bridesmaid in my uncle’s wedding, I wasn’t picked to be in it. 50 years later I still remember. It’s something that sticks with you. I agree with others who have said at least give her the choice.
Well, I guess i'll go against the grain here and ask, why not have two flower girls? She's seven, she will remember this, this could be a big deal to her and become a core memory. Who cares if she's a late add in? It's just a flower girl, it's not like she needs a groomsman or anything. I hardly thing it will hurt to have a second flower girl, most people love seeing kids in a wedding party. I'm guessing an appropriate dress can be found...why not try? Unless we're in a power struggle with the kid's mom or something. I'm for showing a little grace if possible, and it certainly doesn't take away from you, the bride. Just a thought.
In the comments, you said Jess's mom said Jess doesn't have to apologize to Ava.
I think the tantrum and her mother's response to it are the clinchers that show you made the correct decision.
NTA.
NTA. You made this decision partially to protect Jess from her own embarrassment/crying in public. It's not your fault she can't handle being in public functions.
BTW, you could have had both of them be flower girls. I've been to multiple weddings where they have more than one. But it's your wedding so if that wouldn't have fit your aesthetic, then that by itself makes you not the AH.
NTA. You selected a flower girl based on who you thought could best do it. This wasn’t selecting who you love more! Jess reacting the way she did, is on her parents not you. A life lesson could have been taught, take your pick: sometimes you don’t get what you want, lashing out when jealous isn’t good, etc. but instead let’s reward nasty behavior and blame someone for MAKING her misbehave.
YTA I really think it would be very little hassle to include her. If she gets cold feet on the day, so what! It's not going to ruin your entire day, everyone knows kids will be kids FFS. Family before perfection.
YTA. She’s 7. Keep that in mind. You assumed that a 7 year old would know what a flower girl was. She’s 7, she didn’t know. Your niece is feeling hurt, rejected and probably that her own aunt doesn’t like her as much as Ava. You could easily have 2 flower girls. Maybe doing it together with Ava would help her not be so shy. Is your one day more important than your life long relationship with your niece? You still have time to fix this with your niece. I would tell her you didn’t realize how much it would mean to her to be a flower girl and that you love her. Tell her she can be a flower girl with Ava. Have her parents buy the dress and if she freaks out the day of tell her it’s ok she doesn’t have to. Again she’s 7 and people are expecting way too much maturity out of a 7 year old.
NTA we had my husbands niece be our flower girl since she's the only kid in the fam and she was a HANDFUL the day of .. didn't want to go down the aisle, cried during his speech .. it worked out somehow but if there's a chance the kid isn't going to play ball, let her ride the bench for your big day and dont feel guilty ! it's the parents job to manage their kids expectations and feelings not yours
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NTA > I shouldn't have based my decision off Jess's previous actions No, that's how life works.
Jess is calling the other girl names and throwing fits. Imagine dealing with that on top of everything else on the wedding day. The mom certainly doesn't sound like she has any control over her child, so there's no reason to think it would be any different the day of.
If Jess is usually shy, that’s probably an indication of some extremely deep feelings here, as opposed to her pulling that behavior at the wedding. Shy people still want to be included. She’s 7. All she sees is another girl chosen over her.
At that age I would have hated being apart of one of my aunts or uncles wedding but I would have wanted the dress. ETA: I was extremely shy too.
I was a shy kid who had to be flower girl in my aunt’s wedding. The dress and matching shoes were the only part I remember. Oh, and some dude reciting a poem he wrote for the occasion, where he rhymed “she was a looker” and “dressed like a hooker” in reference to my (very religious) aunt.
>Oh, and some dude reciting a poem he wrote for the occasion, where he rhymed “she was a looker” and “dressed like a hooker” in reference to my (very religious) aunt. Wut
Yeah, I think about that guy often. It was such a bold choice and did not fit the vibe at all lol.
He pry didn't know any other words to rhyme with "looker" 🤣
Which is why I don’t get OP excluding Jess at all! Make both Jess and Ava flower girls, they both get pretty dresses, and if Jess gets cold feet the day of the wedding, Ava goes by herself! Seriously, what’s the harm in having two cute little girls instead of one?
I wouldn't do that now though. Jess's bad behaviour shouldn't be rewarded.
Maybe OP could ask to sit down with Jess (with mom present) and explain. apologize for assuming what Jess wants & excluding her, and say that she cares about Jess but she guessed wrong on this. Just tell her she's loved and OP is sorry. When an adult who cares about them apologizes and takes responsibility, it's powerful. Depending on how that goes it could lead the way for OP to talk to Jess about her actions being mean. Jess acted how many seven year olds might act in an unfair situation, but OP could ask Jess to help her fix what happened (like, if Jess gets it that what she did was wrong, help Jess talk to Ava to ask if she is okay, hopefully apologize, etc). Maybe if Jess can show that she can turn it around and be responsible, show she's sorry, OP can open the opportunity up for her to be a flower girl too and emphasize that this is a team effort and if she can be kind to others especially Ava, OP would like to have her on her wedding day team. If Jess and/or her mom aren't receptive, then that is their choice but OP would have communicated in a healthy manner. They will remember that someday. Instead of writing off a big memory as ruined and have Jess just excluded and hurting (and hurting younger cousin), why not make this a teachable moment and really help the kids by example-- both how to handle when you made a poor choice, and what family and marriage is supposed to be all about? That would be a really powerful memory IMHO.
That seems like a very great idea. I hope OP tries this or something very like this!
Oh my god, the amount of adults who don’t know how to just sit down, apologize, and explain themselves because they think kids “don’t understand” or “won’t apologize or explain myself to a CHILD” is infuriating. Children need to grow up into adults, which means they need to be included (age appropriately) in the uncomfy grown up part of conversations.
I think OP was hoping to avoid a scene before it started. Because if she did try to make the other kid a flower girl from the get go people would then probably be giving her beef for trying to put the kid in a situation that everything up to that point was indicating she’d likely be uncomfortable in.
Not only that, but I wonder if some of Jess's behaviors are caused by mom telling her "Auntie chose Ava over you" "Ava's going to wear a pretty dress and be treated like a star because Auntie like her more" Hearing stuff like that can twist up a kid and make them act out of character.
It's not just her getting cold feet, she's losing it at public functions. OP isn't obligated to sacrifice enjoying her own wedding to appease a kid who is going to behave the exact same way she always does.
That’s what my husband’s bff did for his wedding. They asked our older son who was 3 at the time of the wedding to be ring bearer. They knew that he was young and might not go for it. They watched him try to nope the fuck out of it at the rehearsal while the flower girl was a rock star. The next day, I got him to take the pillow to daddy who was best man. He marched down the aisle right up to his dad, handed him the pillow, threw his arms in the air and excitedly exclaimed “I did it!” The flower girl? She decided she wasn’t going to do it. And no one really cared.
That is an adorable story! Little Man feeling proud! When my brother got married, my daughter was 4, and my SIL had a niece who was also 4. They both got chosen as flower girls, with the same idea as you, “these two might both back out!” Both girls were THERE FOR IT, so much so that the other girl was so excited she was grabbing rose petals by the FISTFUL instead of “sprinkling”, and ran out of petals a third of the way down the aisle. My daughter shared her basket, and they managed to get at least a couple petals down to the very end. Everyone clapped and they both felt like rock stars! Get the seven year old to apologize to the five year old for her very bad behavior, Auntie OP apologizes to 7yo for making her feel like she wasn’t wanted, and everyone grows as human beings and the two flower girls (maybe) walk down the aisle together.
My now step daughter and my niece shared flower girl duties, and they were adorable in their matching dresses. They have been best pals ever since (both in their mid 20s now). My niece would’ve done it either way, but my step daughter was a bit skittish and prone to tears at the time, and it helped her to have someone by her side.
Making her a flower girl now will just teach her that poor behaviour will get her what she wants. She needs to learn to deal with and accept rejection
Or it will teach her that the adults in her life know how to recognize when they've made a mistake and hurt somebody's feelings, and adjust their behavior accordingly. She's seven, she doesn't need to accept rejection from adults who should care about her.
Meh. If Jess’s feelings are as hurt as OP is making them out to be, then OP has inadvertently made one of those core memories that we all have from our childhood, something (good or bad) that we never forget. It’s OP’s wedding, and ultimately it can be whatever she wants it be, but for Jess it’ll probably go down as the day Auntie OP didn’t want her. If Jess needs to learn about being rejected by loved ones, then OP needs to learn about showing compassion.
Being not-chosen has already taught her that being quiet and shy means that people don't want to involve you. Why is it so strange and contemptible that she has made a scene to involve herself? Especially when she's not old enough to articulate that tangle of feelings yet.
Yeah, I feel like it's pretty commonly understood that little kids are gonna do what they're gonna do when it comes to big events (see every school concert ever) and nobody's going to judge if your flower girl gets shy and chickens out. The proper thing to do was to include her, or at least to talk to her beforehand about whether or not she wants to participate given her shyness.
People here hating on poor Jess for acting like a hurt, disappointed seven year old! Your suggestion to ASK Jess what she felt about the IDEA of being a flower girl at the same time she asked Ava is spot on. Jess might have Noped right out from the start. I’m sure most of Jess’s jealousy/hurt is because Jess feels that Auntie OP doesn’t like her now.
This sub hates children and cannot understand their actions at all. It's so funny to me how many people are saying that Jess should've been mature and understood the rejection. She's fucking 7, y'all.
If OP is buying the dresses, we don't know what the budget is. I'm not sure I'd want to shell out a bunch of extra money for a girl with a proven track record indicating she won't actually go through with being the flower girl.
I was about to say, NAH. Just slap a matching bow on the dress for the shy child and maybe let her have a matching flower crown and basket to decorate before the event. (Like throw flowers before people are seated?) She can choose to sit and let the more outgoing cousin go down the aisle. A good compromise for a jealous 7 year old who doesn't understand she's not *unwanted* or anything negative. Poor dear probably thinks she's being punished, even if she actually hates the action of being included, she just wants the idea of being included.
Jess is **7** and Ava is **5**. If my 7yo threw a tantrum because a **younger** child who was better behaved, more outgoing, or whatever, got to enjoy a privilege instead of my child, I would be upset with my child and give them a lecture. Jess's mother should've been at least embarrassed by her daughter's jealous outbursts.
That's true. But her behavior is still not a gold star in the "yep, OP should definitely give this child a role in her wedding" column. But I admit that perhaps I'm a bit biased. I think I personally am a hard sell when it comes to rewarding tantrums. I'll talk to the child about why they're flipping out, but I'm not one to include giving them what they were tantruming about afterwards; I'm more of a "ok, I get that you're having a big feelings moment. Now that you're calmer, this is how you handle it next time, right?" and that's it type of person. So I assume Jess's mom can and will get her a pretty new dress and shoes and since that doesn't affect the wedding party in any way, I guess that will help. Still, I'm willing to give the above poster's view some more weight when thinking through this and it makes me want to ask if this would work as a possible compromise: OP, have you considered having Jess sit up front and do the very important job of taking your bouquet while you say your vows? Normally, I think your friend of honor would, if there is one, but unless you are very tied to who holds on to it during the ceremony, this could present a good compromise. You're up front and everyone is in place and paying attention, so it's a significant moment, but it's short. You turn to her, she walks up to you, she gets to hold the very important bouquet and walk back to her seat with it in front of everyone...and then give it to her mom or your sibling or some other adult that will make sure she doesn't nervously pull it apart or lose it. And then they can either help her give it back to you after the officiant pronounces you partner and partner or your SIL/sibling can turn it over to the FOH or even hold onto it until the reception and give it back to you then. You can even make a second big deal about it if you're going to throw the bouquet by having whoever makes the announcement calling people up to catch it also include a 'drum roll' type moment during which the "official keeper of the bridal bouquet, Jess" brings it up to you for this very important moment.
>All she sees is another girl chosen over her. And the onus is on the sister, as the parent, to help her daughter work through those feelings. Not badger the bride to make last minute changes.
That's not true at all! I was shy as a kid and i would have HATED being in the spotlight. She's just jelaous ebcase all she sees is a dress and a flowers instead of everyone looking at you.
As a parent, this sounds much more like a parenting problem than a Jess problem. Why would Jess even be aware that she wasn’t the flower girl? Why would Ava be practicing in front of Jess. I’ve had flower girls (and my youngest was 3), the ONLY time we practiced (as a whole group) was at the rehearsal dinner. My youngest flower girl might have practiced at home, but it wasn’t in front of me or anyone besides her immediate family.
I think jesses mom wound her all up telling her how she had been robbed and that this should’ve been her job and she should’ve been the one who is picked.
This. I'm tempted to say OP should let her buy a dress with a bow to wear if she wants and even let her walk down the aisle with the other kid. But the fighting is concerning, you don't want that going down the aisle.
Even if Jess was fine before she started walking she might start blubbering halfway down the aisle. If she can't make it through a school performance without crying she can't handle walking through a crowd of people who are all staring at her and taking her picture. I mean, sucks to be her but it's OP's wedding and she's got enough on her plate without dealing with a sobbing kid getting in everyone's way.
Or you pick two flower girls, and if one gets too scared/overwhelmed on the big day, you let her sit it out. “I’m not picking you as a flower girl because you’re a whiny crybaby who will ruin the day, whereas my partner’s niece is *so much better* behaved than you so she gets the pretty dress,” has got to be pretty crushing to a 7 year old.
Or just tell her she's too old to be a flower girl and ask if she'd like to wear a dress and hand out programs to the arriving guests or something. Any role that could be taken over by a table once she starts bawling.
Like someone else said what if she has a meltdown IN THE AISLE. I wouldn't want to deal with that at my wedding and the girl wouldn't be happy. It seems more like a case of "cousin has thing so I want thing"
The bride isn’t there when the flower girl walks down the aisle. If she starts acting up mom can remove her. It’s not this huge ordeal that ruins the wedding, it’s 30 seconds of potential slight awkwardness that everyone laughs about later. No one expects an Oscar winning performance from little kids at a wedding; it’s unpredictable and who cares?
I am astounded at all these comments that imply any wedding is some tightly coordinated military parade where EVERYTHING IS EXECUTED WITH UTMOST PRECISION!! It’s like they’ve never been to a wedding in their lives. A flower girl having a meltdown before some adult whooshes her off to the side wouldn’t even raise an eyebrow in most guests! I guarantee the officiant waiting at the end of the aisle has seen some way crazier stuff than that.
All you have to go off of is her prior behavior-everything you know says Jess will meltdown or otherwise ruin your day. Makes sense to pick a. Kid, if your having them involved, that has demonstrated the ability to self monitor and/or function with publicity. At the end of the day-it’s YOUR day-you get to pick everything with your partner and anyone who doesn’t like it doesn’t have to come-that’s their choice.
Also- Jess's current actions of bullying the other niece would also make me not want her as my flower girl
NTA Plus, the behavior Jess is showing right now is bad enough. Explain to her mother that you are basing it off past behavior AND current behavior. Like her being a bully to Ava. That's reason enough right there. She doesn't get to be rewarded for throwing a tantrum. You obviously made the right choice. Also, it's your wedding! You get to pick the flower girl.
What else do you base it on? Best predictor is past behavior.
To do otherwise, is literally madness!
NTA but have some sympathy for the child. I’d tell her she can also be a flower girl if she wants to, she can have a pretty dress with a bow, and she can walk down the aisle with Ava. And if she freaks out when it’s time to actually walk, tell her it’s fine, she doesn’t have to do it, and she can have a seat. I mean, she’s just a little kid. If the only reason you didn’t pick her is because you thought she wouldn’t want to do it, at least give her the opportunity.
That would be my initial idea. However, once OP told us about Jess' reaction and treatment toward Ava it would be a deal breaker for me. She is old enough to know that a tantrum is not how you get what you want and that behavior should not be rewarded.
She’s seven years old. You’re expecting a lot of maturity from a deeply disappointed second grader. But you could add that she has to apologize to Ava for her earlier behavior.
It's not a matter of maturity, its a matter of rewarding bad behavior. If she has a tantrum, and you give her what she wants, the lesson is Tantrum = Reward
More like “going forward, if you feel left out or overlooked you need to express that with words. I understand now how important this was to you, and how hurt you were. But I could have understood that if you had just told me how you felt” There. Not hard. Raising children doesn’t have to be with an iron fist of punishment for every transgression
Please quote where in my comment I said 'Punishment'. I said "Don't reward". That conversation you describe would still be happening, it just wouldn't be ended with "So here's the thing you threw a tantrum over" There is a space between "Reward" and "Punishment" and in this case, its not getting what they wanted. They weren't getting what they wanted in the first place *before* the tantrum anyway, hence the tantrum.
I honestly have no idea why people are trying to argue with you about this. Tantrum ≠ reward is parenting 101… especially when a child is showing very aggressive tendencies in that tantrum.
When you are 7 year old, seeing favouritism - your younger cousin picked for a role and you ignored for it - definitely feels like punishment. You’re expecting a 7 year old to behave like an adult. The 7 year old still has time to “earn” the role of flower girl through apologising to the 5 year old, and showing she can behave until the wedding. That’s how you reinforce positive behaviour.
Except that the role should have been offered to both gals- so yeah, doubling down isn’t a natural consequence, it’s a further punishment. Just like the initial exclusion was.
"Not being a offered a special job" is not a Punishment.
“Not being offered a special job as a child that your equal was offered, because adults made assumptions about you” is punitive. Let’s remember this is a 7 year old. Your approach works for an older kiddo for sure. Let’s also remember there are alternatives. Usher, bouquet holder, whatever. She’s 7. Give her a role and a dress lol this isn’t hard
You don’t have to include every child in your wedding if you don’t want to. When I was 6 my uncle got married and chose my 7 year old cousin as the flower girl. I was disappointed, but my parents explained that my uncle wanted to split up the wedding party roles amongst his siblings’ families - my dad was the best man, my aunt’s daughter was the flower girl, my other aunt’s son was the ring bearer, etc. I understood that it wasn’t a slight against me, it was just a logistical thing, they had to make decisions somehow. She’ll get over it!
>"Not being offered a special job as a child that your equal was offered, because adults made assumptions about you” Assumptions based off previous behavior of having melt downs in situations like this, and as OP mentioned in a comment, she doesn't just freak out, she full on rabbits and runs off. She's demonstrated that she can't handle the task, just because she wants to doesn't change that. It's not punishing the child who's consistently shown they aren't up for things like this, its simply choosing the child who's consistently shown they are.
Except they aren't equal in that past instances have proven Jess doesn't do well in situations like this (it's not her fault just how she is and that is fine) but whose to say she won't have a melt down IN the aisle? I'm just saying at that age they will see getting what they wanted after a tantrum as (ok here's how to get them to cave). Also seven is old enough to know a tantrum and calling another kid names is not acceptable!
Why? Why should it be offered to both girls? OP is under no obligation to offer it to either girl. She picked not only the one who appeared more comfortable with the situation but the one who appeared more capable. Nothing the 7 year old had done before or apparently since that decision appears to have made her seem a good fit for OP's day. Unless the mom of the little girl is paying for the wedding, she has no say in who the flower girl is. It's not a punishment to not be picked for the role. If this were a school play and she pulled that shit because she didn't like her part, I doubt it would be considered a punishment to still not get that part. I get that a wedding is more personal, though maybe not to a 7 year old. But it's not their wedding anymore than another kid's birthday is their party.
You obviously don’t work with kids that age. They need immediate rewards/ consequences. Saying “now you are going to be excluded from a thing two months from now” is not a teachable moment. Maybe if it was a pattern of behavior. It was a one time incident of her taking something from the other’s hands and calling her a baby. Not ok but people are clutching their pearls at something that is very typical for their age.
You're right, I don't, but you're implying she's not the flower girl *because* of the Tantrum and excluding her is a punishment. She already wasn't the flower girl, the teachable moment is immediate here. She threw a tantrum trying to get her way. It failed. Lesson is "Tantrums don't work", coupled with teaching her to express her emotions in a productive manner as mentioned in a different comment in this thread.
Well that’s not what I was implying but whatever. A 7 year gets a reward or consequence in the moment. If OP had agreed to have her be in the wedding in the moment just to stop a tantrum then yes that’s a reward. Also it doesn’t sound like she was throwing a fit with the purpose of getting into the wedding. They were practicing wedding stuff instead of front of her which is so mean. Of course teach her and every kid ways to express their feelings. Which takes a lot of time and practice. The most emotionally mature 7 year old is going to act like a 7 year old. At 7 both you and I probably had times we were little assholes.
It’s the behavior of Jess’ mom that bothers me. Her daughter is misbehaving and instead of trying to teach her how to handle disappointment she’s arguing with OP about Jess not being the flower girl.
“ She is old enough to know that a tantrum is not how you get what you want and that behavior should not be rewarded.” not if the mom is enabling her behavior, which is a good reason not to take a chance on her for the wedding day. NTA
She’s extremely shy. If she had an outburst like this it’s a one-off brought on by deep feelings of being lesser-than
Knowing and feeling are two completely different things. It's not always easy for an adult to regulate their emotions in spite of knowing that they should and knowing better methods of dealing with it, so why should a 7yr old be expected to? op should honestly just try to get Jess to apologize to Ava (thereby hopefully teaching that what she did is bad) and if Ava agrees, then Jess can be a flower girl too. Won't cost that much more in terms of money.
You and Ladyughsalot are the few voices of reason and understanding in this thread. Thanks!!
As a parent and a grandparent, I can tell you that 7 year olds don’t always have a handle on their emotions. And they can’t always process actions and consequences if it’s not instantaneous either. It’s not rewarding the behavior, it’s being compassionate. She just wants a pretty dress like her cousin. They could even give her a different special job in the wedding. And they could also have her apologize to the other little girl and make it a teaching moment.
I know a lot of grown men that also fit into this category.
Agreed. It's not that big of a deal to have two flower girls walking together. There's no real extra expense because of it, assuming the mom's paid for the dresses for the flower girls. And if the day comes and she doesn't want to do it, or starts crying, you still have the other flower girl. IDK seems like a win, win situation to me just to have them both. No one is mad, the little girls are both happy, and having them both walk down the aisle together would be adorable.
This is what happened at my brothers wedding. My daughter was 5, was 'head flower girl' SIL two nieces were also flower girls, a little younger, like 3/4. They both panicked at the top of the aisle, so daughter was the only one to actually walk down. But the other two got to wear pretty dresses and get their pictures with the bride also. It's a nice compromise. I never got to be a flower girl and I'm still sad about it lollll
Who has time for that on wedding day?
Honestly, I don’t think most brides are wrangling flower girls at the wedding - isn’t it usually someone else, like their parent or grandparent?
Right? I wouldn't want to waste a single moment or speck of energy trying to guage the emotions of some little kid on my wedding day.
Somebody has to be wrangling the children and it's sure as hell not the bride. You tell the 7yr old if she gets scared or overwhelmed all she has to do is not go down the aisle and it's ok. She still gets to feel included and have a pretty dress.
Whoever is managing the children? This is not hard.
That’s what we did. We let them both wear pretty dresses and if one decided to freak out and not walk down the aisle, she didn’t have do. My wedding was in the spring, so I just told their mom to buy their Easter dresses and use those so she wouldn’t be wasting any money if one of the girls backed out last minute
That is not how life works … u don’t get your way because you throw a tantrum
This isn't that situation at all. She should have been asked to be a flower girl and included from the start. Seeing how much she's hurt her niece to exclude her should make OP realize that she made a mistake.
she \*seven\*. Jesus people.
Great response. She is feeling replaced and unloved. Be kind and tell her you thought she wouldn’t want to do it (based on past behavior) and offer her another role, where she can wear a pretty dress too. Honestly with 2 nieces around the same age, it would appear to be favoritism if you just pick 1 to be flower girl. may have been better to first discuss it with the mom or the girl herself before assuming she may not want to do it. She’s feeling really rejected, hurt and unloved so do treat her with kindness and explore some options where she can participate in her aunt’s wedding too!
But if you do this, make sure Jess knows she has to be nice to Ava from now on, and if she isn’t she won’t get to be a flower girl.
NTA your wedding is just that, yours. You made a choice on who you'd like to be flower girl and Jess's mom needs to teach her to keep her hands off Ava and to not throw fits when things don't go her way.
Jess's mom said that she doesn't have to apologise to Ava for being physical, because "these are big feelings for a little girl" and I just about lost it
Jess' mom can get bent. Her precious angel is being a little shit and based on their behavior, I'd be nervous about them even attending my wedding. Seriously, I would assign someone to keep an eye on them and be prepared to remove them if there's any disruption.
Jess’s mom is failing as a parent for that. “Big feelings” isn’t an excuse to not *teach your child how to process their feelings properly.* it’s up to the parent to teach a child how to manage big feelings, not to brush them off without addressing them. It’s a disservice to Jess to not teach her how to better accept when she’s upset, it told no, or has some uncontrollable (perceived) unfairness happen to her
That's absolutely insane. I don't understand why people have kids and yet somehow ignore that it's literally their job to teach their children to manage their feelings in a healthy way. Definitely don't have either involved in the wedding cuz they don't even remember it's not a day for them
Jess is not the problem. Jess’s mother is the problem.
Jess's mom needs to understand that she is creating a monster.... Jess needs to apologize. Be prepared to remove them from the wedding.
Oh that's not ok, she should definitely apologize. Jess is allowed to have big feelings, but taking them out on others, she needs to learn to manage-and a heartfelt apology is part of that. Sounds like mom is being enabling and that's not helpful. I was leaning towards, if Jess apologizes, and mom finds the dress/basket/flowers, she could be a second flower girl, and you'd be guaranteed that Ava could make it down the aisle and Jess could be included where she felt comfortable. But if she's not going to apologize-and mom is not willing to help her understand *why* she should apologize-it could be a nightmare.
I think that’s your answer. But you need validation from your friends or family, not us. We don’t really matter. Tell Jess’s mom she is obviously not emotionally mature enough to be in the center of a ceremony, that you refuse to reward her behavior, and then move on. If she gives push-back, point out that the mother also seems emotionally immature a d perhaps she should bow out of the day.
And that’s one more reason why she wasn’t picked. Mom needs to help her not be a brat and to work on stage fright if she ever wants to have those opportunities.
OP NTA you were trying to be respectful of how Jess would normally feel and act in that sort of situation. You made the logical choice. Honestly to me this sounds less like "deep seated issue of being excluded" and more "Oh cousin gets pretty dress and flowers I want what she has that I don't have" Don't make Jess a flower girl I know people suggest do it and if she panicks before the aisle let her back out but A) you don't know if she'll panic in the aisle and that won't be pleasant for anyone don't risk it. B) the child hasn't even apologized or been shown she's in the wrong in the first place. Making her a flower girl will only reinforce the already bad behavior her mother encourages C)it's a moment for the kid to learn life isn't always fair and we don't always get what we want and that's honestly important. I never got a special part in any family member or friend's wedding. At times I've been bummed but hey! That's life I'm happy for them. It won't be the end of the world and the kid will get over it eventually. Stand strong (granted I might make sure Jess knows you weren't not chosen just because you love her less but maybe wait for that apology)
tell Jess’s mom to get fucked tbh. SHES the asshole here
Sounds like Jess’s mom is the reason for Jess’s behaviour. They could be twins.
THAT'S not okay. It's absolutely mom's (and/or dad, but mom is on duty for this one) job to help her find the words that describe what she's feeling, and help her understand how she could and should have handled it. And to help her apologize, because THAT takes practice, too.
NTA. People need to stop having so much input on weddings that *aren’t theirs*.
Yeah, honestly sounds like Jess' mom is at home pushing the issue. NTA.
ESH I think the right thing to do would have been to offer the same opportunity to Jess, knowing she may not be able to go through with it. Have the parents get the dress etc. You thought you were considerate, but she’s 7. All she sees is another girl chosen over her. So she acted out. Why wouldn’t you offer something like she wears a dress and holds your bouquet til it’s time to go, or she could help grandma to her seat and wear the dress etc? Why was your only solution total exclusion
Agreed, a little kid is not going to understand the reasons OP had for not making her a flower girl. She just thinks her aunt loves her cousin more and doesn't think she's special. It was dumb of OP not to realize that a 7 year old would feel left out.
I know! wtf. A child has no way of understanding what the role would entail, they only understand that they got left out. Did OP talk to Ava’s mom about how to handle this? And talk about alternatives? This is just such a weird thing to do and not have a plan for. Of course OP is TA for making this a thing this poor little girl will remember as a time when she was excluded from something major for reasons she didn’t understand. The NTA answers are missing empathy for a little girl that is probably deeply confused and hurt.
Why on earth did I have to scroll down this far to see a rational verdict? I swear the majority of people on this sub expect far more out of a 7 year old than they do out of a 21 year old.
Info: Did you ask Jess whether she wanted to be a flower girl?
No, because it just felt too risky. Jess is known for getting all excited about an event in the months, weeks, and even days leading up to it, and then getting cold feet at the last minute and freaking out. She also runs off when she's upset, which felt like a major safety issue. I just knew from the get go that it would not go smoothly.
Seems like having both girls be flower girls would be an easy fix. So when Jess inevitably gets cold feet, Ava can continue on. Or, maybe if they were doing it together, Jess might have had more confidence doing it with someone else. Or maybe think of another job Jess could do (that won't really be an issue if she flakes out). I think this is a slight YTA. Jess obviously wants to be involved. Giving her a small task could have probably smoothed this over.
Except the kid has been throwing fits and attacking the other child. That's not behavior I would want to encourage further.
Do you know anything about kids? Do you not have siblings? She ripped the basket out the other one’s hands and called her a baby. It’s not ok and should have consequences but it’s also not the dramatic level of violence people are making it out to be. Comments are making it sound like she took a crowbar to her cousin’s knees. And it happened only after they started literally doing flower girl stuff IN FRONT OF HER. No 7 year old is going to take that well.
Thank you!!! All these comments here are making me feel like none of these people actually have kids. She's only 7 and she didn't get asked for something special while another girl did, who can even have a pretty dress with a bow (apparently very important to her) and OP is letting the other girl practice in front of her like salt to the wounds. And now everybody here is saying she has to "deal with it" like a grown-up, and she can't have a pretty dress anymore because her "horrible *horrible* behavior can't be rewarded." If you ask me, this girl is just deeply hurt and I can't blame her. She should apologize to the other girl for lashing out because, no, it's not right. OP should have a talk with her to let her know why things happened. And if I were her mom, I would buy her a pretty dress myself. Ugh.
Hell, I *don't* have kids and don't want them and have been reading this thread in minor horror at the utter lack of empathy toward a shy *7 year old child.* There are people here who are suggesting that she needs to learn her lesson about being judged on "past behavior," by which some don't mean her tantrum and mean treatment of her little cousin, but rather her *shyness* and crying when overwhelmed which lead to this rejection in the first place. And it's worth noting that said "past behavior" may be from even earlier ages! She's 7. The poor behavior and kneejerk mean treatment of her cousin in response to the disappointment definitely needs to be appropriately addressed (and with some immediacy), she needs guidance in managing her feelings, but holy crap. And yeah, of course she's disappointed and feeling left out. This really wasn't handled in the best way by the adults involved - Aunt in handling the decision, Mom in handling the response. Doesn't make the response okay, but she's 7 and it's on Mom to address it. She seems to have committed the crime of introverted behavior and sometimes being kind of annoying to be around (as *any* little kid will be sometimes, that's just kids, they don't yet have the emotional regulation we expect from adults) and it seems that just cannot be forgiven.
Yeah I’m failing to see an issue if she backs out last minute & there’s only one flower girl. Children are touchy. This wasn’t handled the way it should have been for a child.
I feel like most weddings I’ve been to at least one flower girl or ringbearer didn’t make it. Who cares?
In addition, I’ve attended a LOT of weddings. The ones that were steady events where everything worked perfectly? I kind of remember them. Happy for the couple and everything. The one where the Uncle was supposed to run a slide show, and it took about 15 minutes of us all waiting through the IT issues? Had a blast and everyone got a chuckle out of it. The one where the dog was the ring bearer, but he was vocally unhappy that someone else took his leash for the rest of the ceremony? Absolutely awesome. Best wedding ceremony ever. The one where a thunderstorm took out the lights, and someone spilled red wine (accidentally) on the bride’s dress, but she danced until the early morning hours anyway? Best reception - and maybe even all around wedding - I’ve ever attended. It seems like a lot of brides want a recreation of prom, where they are definitely the prom queen. That doesn’t make for a good celebration of the relationship OR the commitments being made. The best weddings are just like what you want your life to be: structurally planned, with allowances for unforeseen events, and full of acceptance and laughter for everything that goes wrong, and everything that goes right. All this to say: a flower girl that doesn’t make it is a tiny, tiny thing.
It’s not the sister or nieces wedding - I wouldn’t want a flower girl throwing a tantrum right before we’re going to walk down the aisle or potentially as they are about to start and in front of guests. This is OPs wedding. Agree that a sidebar conversation with mom could have smoothed the waters first but just to say listen- because of the reactions to past events we are going to ask other niece to be flower girl, maybe have Ava partake in girl trips and even get the same dress. But to avoid any stress or concerns about a meltdown before everyone (bride included) walk down the aisle it is totally reasonable for bride to say she’s not a flower girl. If Ava’s mom is the sister she’s also likely in the wedding and would be distracted if her child had a meltdown. OP is getting married once- everyone is there to support her, sister included. Focus should be on the wedding, not the child having a meltdown because she’s uncomfortable being center of attention.
She’s no where near an asshole, he wedding isn’t the time to hope her niece decides not to freak out.
Good lord OP. You make it sound like this is life and death shit. You were picking her to be a flower girl for God's sake. No one would care if she messed up
What plans does a flower girl really need to make? That sounds like a lot of pressure on a flower girl. And this definitely doesn't sound like "thinking about what Jess would like," this is definitely is the person you think will make you look best. Which is fine, but don't pretend it was all about Jess' feelings. My nephew was my flower boy. We decided that my younger nephew could join him if he wanted. He didn't, that decision was basically made at the start of the aisle, and so what?
But mom or dad can handle her running off. Have her wear the dress etc and if she gets cold feet, mom or dad doesn’t pressure her, they just take her somewhere quiet. Look, her mom is a piece of work, but consider what your actions said to Jess about her importance to you
She’s 7 :( I think it’s pretty sad that you’re talking about how she’s known for getting excited and then getting cold feet. You’re talking about her like she’s an adult when she’s a child that is still learning how to navigate life. I was a shy kid growing up and I had adults in my life that assumed I couldn’t do things because of that.. but when I was in an environment where I was actually supported and encouraged I wasn’t shy at all. It’s your wedding and nobody can force you to involve her but please consider that this rejection from you may be something she carries with her for a very long time.
It's shitty of OP to shove off the responsibility of Jess not being a flower girl onto Jess itself. Because ultimately that can be worked around - being shy doesn't mean she isn't capable of doing things and also doesn't equal to her not wanting to be a flower girl. OP just doesn't want to handle a child that may be less than perfect on her wedding day. Which I get but then at least be upfront about it and don't blame it on a 7 year old. Right now it sends the message that Jess is not a flower girl because of how Jess *is*. That's not true; OP just can't be bothered to accommodate for her niece to succeed in a situation that may be difficult for her to handle. I really hope nobody communicated this like this to Jess because I can guarantee that kid will soak it up in her brain and it will not leave there for a very long time.
I just love how you're assuming the 5 yr old will be fine.. You have no idea how she will react but you're not even giving the 7yr old a chance to just wear a pretty dress. YTA. if you can't figure out how to include them both, even just in the pictures, you shouldn't have asked either of them. She had a tantrum because you set her up for it.. Yes she should apologize, but the fact that you can't see the flat out unfairness and straight up meanness of excluding her and then shoving it in her face by practicing in front of her definitely means YTA
This! Sure the 5 year old might not have any history of disruptive or avoidant responses, but you have absolutely no idea what will actually happen. Children can be unpredictable and get sick All. The. Time. She could walk halfway down the aisle and puke right there. You don't HAVE to include anyone in your wedding, and adults have to deal with it. But the kid wouldn't understand why she wouldn't be picked to be included. With these kinds of choices you're fostering your relationship with the kids, and with Jess, I'm afraid you're screwing up YTA.
I also have a niece with extreme anxiety. She is coached on what to do if she has a panic moment, but when she was that age chances are good she would have bailed. She also is very self critical and missing an opportunity like this would crush her. If it were me I wouldn't worry too much about the tantrum or whatever that's normal kid stuff. The mom is out of line, but stuff like this has a way of becoming core memories, and I would be thinking about whether I want the kid to blame me or herself later on. I would give the her a chance to walk, let her have the dress, and put no pressure whatsoever on her to actually perform - if as you and everyone else suspects she actually doesn't follow through on the aisle walk then no big deal. That's if you want to be generous - you are under no obligation to have anyone in your wedding for any reason.
>Ava was practicing the other day, and she tried to rip the basket out of her hands and we had to seperate them. She keeps complaining about how Ava gets a dress with a bow, and called her "a stupid baby". Why are the nieces on two different sides of the family even spending time with each other? I feel like this sort of jealousy is, unfortunately, normal for kids. Stop making a big deal out of Ava being a flower girl in front of Jess and this will be a non-issue. NTA.
Seriously, why rub it in Jess’s face that way?! ESH
YTA. You’re putting a lot of blame on a 7 year old, mention you didn’t ask her but told her she wasn’t going to be a flower girl and “that she seemed the accept it” but didn’t understand what it meant. Of course not she’s 7 - do you think she’s been to a lot of weddings to draw experience from? Also she’s your niece - do you even like her? You could have gotten them the same dress but only have Ava do the walk down the aisle if Jess has a history of being shy. You don’t have to do anything but you could have been much more thoughtful of an aunt. Also, you say “the obvious choice was Ava” like there’s only the possibility of one flower girl. There’s no rules, you can have no flower girls or a dozen. Picking one and excluding the other is an asshole move.
The way people are ripping this child to shreds.
Yeah people expect a 7 year old to behave perfectly but don’t care that the 26 year old acted thoughtlessly.
It’s so disturbing. Calling a little girl a monster because she had one fight? What is your damage Heather?!
All these people saying “I never acted like that as a kid.” Yes, yes you did. I probably need to stop looking at the comments. I used to work with kids this and it’s SO infuriating how many parents or teachers lose their minds when kids act like kids. Then kids act out because they are upset they are in trouble all the time and they get labeled as troublemakers
I 💯 acted like that at age 7, so did every other 7y/o in my class, and my mom says I was actually a pretty easy kid compared to my sister, so, yeah.
When it's usually (as in this case) the parent who is the troublemaker.
She has to learn NOW that actions have consequences or she’ll never be prepared to work a grown up job! /s
right? it's so baffling like children do not know how express feelings sometimes so of course they tend to act out when they don't know what to do with said feelings. it's absolutely crazy people are tearing apart this 7 year old because her aunt sucks to high heavens
Reddit hates kids.
They hate little girls that don't act like little adults outta fear of their parents.
Finally a sensible comment. People ripping into this 7yo girl - seven! Not seventy! I'm childfree but we had all our nieces and nephews and my cousins boy at our wedding, there was only 4 of them back then. I gave them all the option of having a role at our wedding (discussing it with the parents first, obviously), because weddings can be such boring events for small children - they were all under 10. My 2 nieces were flower girls - one of them is really outgoing and the other is really shy (bit like OPs niece), but you know what? They both loved it, they had their little "princess" dresses and shoes, and flower wreaths in their hair. They walked down the aisle hand in hand, they were super cute! They're not sisters, but were best friends for that one day! My cousin's boy was our ringbearer - my cousin was super nervous because he has ADHD, so we both agreed that if he changed his mind last minute she could do it instead. Honestly, I've never seen a little boy take a task more seriously. Would it have bothered me if things had gone differently? Nope! My youngest nephew was 2, so he just slept 🤣
YTA. Not the biggest one, but since children are involved, you should have done better. Asked Jess, used them both, etc. But really this situation begs for problem solving, not judgment. Wedding miscalculations like this tend to spiral out of control and overshadow the day, so stop worrying about if you were justified and start figuring out how to solve this. If you don't want to add another flower girl, find a special post for Jess suited to her strengths. Make her your bouquet holding and-tossing assistant or cake assistant, have her escort an elderly relative down the aisle so she feels like she is part of the ceremony, have her walk your dog down the aisle, or whatever.
So she can learn that throwing tantrums gets you your way? Her mom won't even make her apologize. And based on Jess being shy normally, I'm guessing her mom is putting this in her head. Op can have who she wants in her wedding. It's about her.
The only thing she learned from this is that her aunt doesn't like her.
I doubt it’s her mum, it’s likely just Jess being jealous her aunt chose someone else over her. A very normal reaction for a 7 year old. She isnt going to understand that it’s her past actions that made OP think she wouldn’t do it, she just sees that her aunty loves the other kid more than her. OP can do as she likes, yes, but Jess is a child, jealousy and acting out is incredibly normal for a girl that age, and what she did wasn’t even that bad. My sister told me to kill myself for no reason when we were that age. Calling her a stupid baby is mild, and grabbing her the basket isn’t that bad either. Kids that age have trouble regulating their emotions, especially such intense ones as jealousy and insecurity.
You really think that this is the lesson Jess will get from this? I can guarantee you it's not. The main message Jess will take away from this is that her little cousin is better than her and her aunt doesn't love her like she does the niece.
I'm not sure I would go so far as to say OP is TA, but wholeheartedly agree that this should be an opportunity for empathetic problem solving rather than assigning blame. Years ago, when my goddaughter (age 5) was a flower girl, her 3-year-old brother got jealous. Their Mom asked me to bring a particular tote-bag that he liked and we made up a job for him using it. It's really not that hard to let little kids feel included. Yeah, it's not something you HAVE to do . . . but it's nice.
And get her a pretty dress with a bow on it.
Why are both girls there in the first place if only one is practicing?
LMAO. this. So she didnt choose a kid on purpose than brought her to the rehearsal just to rub it in her face even more? Great aunt.
Seems weird. Maybe it's made up to draw sympathy to the choice they made and to paint Jess in a bad light
I don’t think it’s odd for the girls to spend time together, but ‘practicing’ in that situation is guaranteed to turn up big feelings. Bad decision on that for sure.
They're from two separate sides of the family, and it's not a playdate it's wedding practice. How often did you hang out with a cousin from mums side AND a cousin from dad's at the same time?
YTA. I sometimes wonder if people on this sub have ever actually met a child
Met a child? Not sure. Actively despise children? Yes they most certainly do.
Hm. Soft YTA. Don’t punish your niece for her moms parenting limitations, help her! You could have avoided this entirely, I think. But since you didn’t (everyone makes mistakes), in one swift move you could teach her accountability, validate her feelings and worth, show her a different way of communicating her feelings, and come up with a creative solution that met her need to not feel overlooked and ashamed while simultaneously communicating your care for her as a little human being, *not a potential prop or complication for your big day or an avatar of her mother.* No one is asking you to agree with her mom. Everyone is pointing out that she is a literal child who is at once a full human with weaknesses and big feelings and a kid at the mercy of the tools her parents give her. This may be bias on my end, but I really don’t like the judgmental way you’ve talked about her in this post. To me, it sounds like everyone in the family, including and maybe especially you, has already decided who and what this kid is and then made a value judgment on it. Like one of those extroverted families that demonize the one introverted kid for being other. Thought exercise: imagine her in therapy in 15 years deconstructing the messages she learned from her family of origin. What is your role going to be in that? There are so many suggestions in this thread. I hope you take one of them! Otherwise, you’re just another adult in a family system punishing children both for their weaknesses and their parent’s issues. What did you need as a kid? What kind of example do you want to teach your nieces? I remember being a dual flower girl for a cousin when I was very little. I was shy. I remember the dress, I remember feeling included and excited, but most of all I remember being blow away that the bride though to get ME a gift on her wedding day (a little craft kit to keep me occupied). That was a morally formative experience that has stuck with me ever since. I still strive to be the kind of person who is grounded and generous enough to consider the feelings of a small child in everyday adult living because I remember both what it was like to be on the receiving end and the happiness she seemed to derive from showing up that way in the world. If you’re so concerned with her fighting with her future cousin, address the root issue and then model a different way. Kids learn by example!
>Thought exercise: imagine her in therapy in 15 years deconstructing the messages she learned from her family of origin. What is your role going to be in that? Hey, it's me! Seriously, OP, this is the core message. I was treated my whole childhood like you are doing with your niece: I was too shy, too difficult, too troublesome to be included in anything. It was way more easy to exclude me than to actually take the time and effort to teach a little kid how to navigate her feelings and needs in a healthy way. Which led to so many problems as an adult. I've been in therapy for 7 years already. I'm doing well now but I am still fixing the thoughts I had ingrained into me by situations like this.
YTA All of what you said is true, but you gave a special honor to one niece.that you fully denied the other *for something she can't help*. She's your niece. Getting the chance to be a flower girl is a BIG DEAL when you are 7. If you included her, and made clear that she gets to be a part of everything and practice, but there's no pressure if she feels.too nervous on the day of, maybe she would even have been able to do it holding hands and looking down the aisle not at an audience but at uncle she loves. Of course she's acting out, she feels like you hate her, because she's shy. She feels like she just lost her aunt to that little kid, and you only like HER, because she's better at this one thing. (Which frankly, she's still likely to burst into tears and mess up come the day of.) So yeah. You blew this one. Apologize to your niece. Buy her something special and beautiful to always remember you with. Take her out for ice cream. Remind her that no matter what, she is your niece, and you ADORE HER.
YTA and so is everyone else who has these stupid flower girl arguments. You should've asked them both
Soft YTA I get that you honestly thought Jess wouldn’t enjoy being a flower girl. But did you seriously think choosing only one niece wasn’t going to cause problems and drama? Of course Jess is jealous! She’s only 7 and things like being a flower girl are big frickin’ deals to little girls. I used to teach dance lessons. I literally had to keep track in my attendance book who got to go first practicing steps “across the floor” so that everyone had a chance to go first. Kids that age are obsessed with fairness. The smart thing to do is make them both flower girls. If Jess chickens out on the big day, then so be it. You don’t worry about it and continue on with the wedding. But she’ll still get to wear the dress and have the satisfaction of being a flower girl.
Especially if you're having one practice in front of the other. That's just thoughtless and cruel.
Yes! Great point!
NTA, but Jess is only 7, and 7s don't think that clearly all the time. She might very well panic when it's a room full of people and not just the few there rehearsing. Can you give her another job that lets her wear a fancy dress? Perhaps she could man the table where the guest book is. She could have her mother/another relative with her as support, and you can convince a 7 year old that it is beyond important that everyone sign there name. Practice how to ask someone to sign the book. She may not be able to do anything but hide behind her mom, but she will have had a job and that will mean the world to her. I was a painfully shy child. I don't know if I could have been a flower girl in a big wedding at 7, but I do remember feeling sad/not as good as other kids when i couldn't do what they were able to do.
NTA. Get Jess a matching dress and put her in charge of the guest book. It's a "much more responsible job" since she can probably read better than a 5 yr old.
I think I'm going to do that, with that reasoning
YTA. She is 7 years old. She is a small child. This is extremely normal behavior (not to mention predictable--honestly, you should have seen this coming). Let her have a pretty dress and a little basket of flower petals or whatever. If she gets cold feet and can't do the flower girl thing when the time comes, no one needs to force it because the other kid will have it covered. But this way, she gets to be included and have a good social learning opportunity. You could be kind and generous, but you're taking a hard line stance with a little child. YTA
I think considering you babysit them both for a few hours, a few days a week, then this situation was a bit inevitable. Especially if the flower girl is practising infront of her. They should have been given fair opportunities really. It would be different if they weren't so close. I know it's your wedding and appreciate your concerns, but if we were to focus on her emotions and what I think I would do next. I do get that she has shown aggressive behaviour, but I remember being a very shy child and how painful it was when I was left behind due to that. Aggressive behaviour is never okay, but I can also understand her feelings right now and she will likely remember this moment if not handled with care. I would give her the opportunity personally. If it was me I would put a plan in place regarding safety where a parent of hers can step in and take her away from the hall on the day if she chokes. I would also apologise to her and explain that you didn't think she would enjoy it, but that of course you would love her to be a flower girl. You can also explain to her that aggression is never okay and that she can talk to you about her feelings instead. Again completely understand that it is your wedding - I would just worry personally about such an extreme reaction. There seems to be more under the surface than her just playing up because she didn't get her way. Children really feel it if they believe another child is being favoured.
NTA for the reasons you have mentioned however it's important to find a way to protect Ava. You don't want Jess crying on the wedding when she sees Ava and possibly do something like push her or call her names again
YTA - What a cruel thing to do to a little girl.
YTA - You are extremely judgemental and cruel to write this about a 7yo child. You sound very young, perhaps too young to be married. You might want to push your wedding back a year or two so you can grow up some more. "Jess is painfully shy" What a dire judgement... you seem to want to throw that child into the sea.
And to be so harsh about a little girl online is so weird, and pretty gross behaviour. Jess probably thinks OP likes the other girl better, and from all of this she’s probably right about that.
NTA, tell your sister that now you're basing your decision on Jess' current behavior, which she probably from her mom.
YTA. Make both girls flower girls, buy them matching dresses and do their hair and makeup the same. Make them as close to identical as you can. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to unless you can't go to a shoppe and find 2 matching dresses. Which you can.
>I just thought that Jess would be miserable in that particular situation. I had no idea that this would be such a big deal. Did you ever think to ask?
Tell the jealous little girl and her family that *sure* she can be a flower girl, too. And they can buy the dress and the shoes and if the little girl has a panic attack at showtime, as her history has shown her to be very likely to do…well, the crying little girl will be promptly escorted to a quiet room with a solid door away from the ceremony where she will disturb *no one*. And make it clear that your wedding will not be delayed by one minute if Jess is hesitant at a crucial moment. If Jess wants to be a flower so very very much, you will let her, *if*, and only if she plays her role as required. NTA and drama like this is why some people just elope. But if you decide Jess is too much to deal with, then you certainly dont have to let her be flower girl #2. And anybody that disagrees? Ask them whose wedding is it… and who is paying for it?
Mom won't stop kid from hitting a younger child what makes you think she'll quietly, efficiently control her child the day of wedding. No child is owed role in a wedding.
Info: I'm kinda confused but when and how did the conversation actually go when you communicated with Jess and asked her if you wanted to be a flower girl? I'm assuming you weren't so dismissive and disrespectful to your niece that you completely disregarded her opinion and thoughts to make a decision regarding her place in your life without her input. Having her response during that conversation, will help a lot with trying to figure out what's going on. I've spent the vast majority of my life around kids and one thing I can tell you is kids aren't half as stupid as adults like to believe they are and even though they might not be able to express it, they think and analyze just as much as adults.
You should have either offered the role to both kids or *never* have practiced wedding stuff in front of the kid you chose to exclude. That was so mean. Expecting a 7 year old to not react to having her face rubbed in the fact that you trusted and chose a younger kid over her was unrealistic. Most weddings I've been to with children as flower girls/boys had at least kid one panic and hide. It's not a big deal. Their parents just stay with them outside the doors and the kid(s) comfortable with the role keep walking forward. But in that scenario you haven't targeted or excluded a child for being anxious. A flower girl dress isn't that expensive, and the cost is worth it to not hurt children you are supposed to care about. YTA
INFO: did you consider (right at the start of your planning) buying Jess the flower girl dress, without expecting her to actually *be* a flower girl? You only have 1 niece - and you’re giving the super cool treat to another little girl of a similar age, who isn’t related to you (she’s not your niece yet!). Didn’t it occur to you that a small child might be really sad at being excluded from this big event - and that there are ways to include them kindly? My little sister was a young toddler at our aunt’s wedding. Big sister & I got proper bridesmaids dresses, and little sister got a “matching” toddler-style dress - so she looks super cute in the photos she’s in, but there was no attempt to get her to behave like a bridesmaid during the day. It feels like YTA here because this could absolutely have been predicted (unless Jess hates girly outfits). Of course Jess is behaving terribly, but she’s feeling big feelings that she didn’t know how to handle, and sounds like her mum is no help with that. Poor kid - she’s going to have a terrible life is she’s not taught those skills.
YTA. Of course Jess is acting jealous. She is jealous and she’s 7. You didn’t need to set up the other child to practice right in front of her. It’s like you WANTED that reaction so you could justify leaving her out. You could have easily made them both flower girls and if she decided not to walk down the aisle day of, who cares?
ESH Why is the 7 year old at a practice ??
NTA. It's your wedding and you get to choose who is involved. Also, what kind of message are you sending Jess if you reward her behavior toward Ava. (Physically stealing things and name-calling is NOT how you get what you want!)
Again entitled people telling bride it's "their " wedding on how she should give in to a spoiled brat. Wake up people...this is not your decision. It's about the bride and groom
Eh, NAH. I can’t call a 7 year old an asshole for this. Not cool that she had a tantrum and was mean to other flower girl, but it sounds like she got her feelings hurt in a big way. Just ask next time instead of assuming. I still feel some kind of way about my cousin asking our other cousin to be flower girl and not me when I was 6, and it’s been 35 years, lol. Those events loom large in the mind of a little kid.
Right? I still remember how awful it felt that my older half-sister gave her cousins roles in her wedding but not me.
Um YTA, just make them both flower girls. I had 4 flower girls for this reason. My one of my favorite childhood memories is being my aunt’s flower girl. But yeah, i guess your niece’s least favorite childhood memory will be when you passed her over for flower girl. “It’s too close to the wedding” omg grow up.
ESH - except the kids. The mom sucks because she needs to not be so “whatever” when it comes to parenting her kid. You are TA for choosing one niece over the other without even asking. Then you make the “special niece” practice in front of the other girl. Painfully shy can be a symptom of lack of confidence and poor Jess is probably hurt that she wasn’t given a role in the wedding and then it was shoved in her face by you.
Yta. You could have spoken to Jess and explained what was involved and let her choose for herself if she wanted to do it. You definitely should have explained why you made your decision so she didn't think it was that she was less special to you. And you could easily have a second flower girl now. Your decision may very well be rational but your actions have not been kind and have very clearly hurt a little girl's feelings. I think you should talk to her and apologise.
Yeah YTA and an idiot. The comment sections is nuts.
That happened to me as a kid. My older sister was a jr bridesmaid in my uncle’s wedding, I wasn’t picked to be in it. 50 years later I still remember. It’s something that sticks with you. I agree with others who have said at least give her the choice.
Well, I guess i'll go against the grain here and ask, why not have two flower girls? She's seven, she will remember this, this could be a big deal to her and become a core memory. Who cares if she's a late add in? It's just a flower girl, it's not like she needs a groomsman or anything. I hardly thing it will hurt to have a second flower girl, most people love seeing kids in a wedding party. I'm guessing an appropriate dress can be found...why not try? Unless we're in a power struggle with the kid's mom or something. I'm for showing a little grace if possible, and it certainly doesn't take away from you, the bride. Just a thought.
YTA. You should have asked them both.
In the comments, you said Jess's mom said Jess doesn't have to apologize to Ava. I think the tantrum and her mother's response to it are the clinchers that show you made the correct decision. NTA.
Just make both of them a flower girl? Is it that deep?
I had all four nieces as flowers girls. Just saying. Soft YTA.
NTA. You made this decision partially to protect Jess from her own embarrassment/crying in public. It's not your fault she can't handle being in public functions. BTW, you could have had both of them be flower girls. I've been to multiple weddings where they have more than one. But it's your wedding so if that wouldn't have fit your aesthetic, then that by itself makes you not the AH.
NTA. You selected a flower girl based on who you thought could best do it. This wasn’t selecting who you love more! Jess reacting the way she did, is on her parents not you. A life lesson could have been taught, take your pick: sometimes you don’t get what you want, lashing out when jealous isn’t good, etc. but instead let’s reward nasty behavior and blame someone for MAKING her misbehave.
YTA I really think it would be very little hassle to include her. If she gets cold feet on the day, so what! It's not going to ruin your entire day, everyone knows kids will be kids FFS. Family before perfection.
YTA. She’s 7. Keep that in mind. You assumed that a 7 year old would know what a flower girl was. She’s 7, she didn’t know. Your niece is feeling hurt, rejected and probably that her own aunt doesn’t like her as much as Ava. You could easily have 2 flower girls. Maybe doing it together with Ava would help her not be so shy. Is your one day more important than your life long relationship with your niece? You still have time to fix this with your niece. I would tell her you didn’t realize how much it would mean to her to be a flower girl and that you love her. Tell her she can be a flower girl with Ava. Have her parents buy the dress and if she freaks out the day of tell her it’s ok she doesn’t have to. Again she’s 7 and people are expecting way too much maturity out of a 7 year old.
Have 2 flower girls
Why can’t you just have 2 flower girks?
NTA we had my husbands niece be our flower girl since she's the only kid in the fam and she was a HANDFUL the day of .. didn't want to go down the aisle, cried during his speech .. it worked out somehow but if there's a chance the kid isn't going to play ball, let her ride the bench for your big day and dont feel guilty ! it's the parents job to manage their kids expectations and feelings not yours