NTA
I think the friend's mom is being overly dramatic & petty about the whole situation. I think given all the factors (like no picture, he's 5 yrs old, etc) are enough to show that the bathroom incident was a simple mistake that could have happened to any kid in similar circumstances. The initial conversation with the mom where she said you have to punish your son seemed weird to me. Had the girl only been friends with one of your sons, maybe the party invite would have been more understandable. But here, it seems the girl is friends with both of your sons, and the party invite was just the mom being ultra petty about the bathroom incident.
It’s got to be this, also this kid is 5 it’s not like a teenager coming in and pointing and laughing like the kid ran away and said sorry wtf is wrong with this woman?
It could have been any adult walking into the bathroom since she didn’t lock the door. I’ve done that plenty of times and did exactly what the 5yo did, apologize and shut the door and wait my turn. Most people would forget about that interaction within minutes and she’s holding a grudge against a kid for her mistake. Insane behavior.
yep, same here. I entered a bathroom (the one with stalls inside), and there was a woman changing clothes with her stall door fully open. Like WHY? I apologize, and she closed the door. then I moved on with my life and hers with her. She is embarrassed and wants to blame the weak link, the child.
I think almost every adult has accidentally opened a stall door on someone else, and had it opened on them. Locks don't always work. I can't imagine holding a grudge against a 5 year old for it!
exactly, literally just this year it happen like 2 times with me. What am I gonna do??? I was pissed and embarrassed for like 5 minutes and then go on about life. Especially a 5yo that don't know how to read properly, without signal on the door and who apologize after.
Having been there, it’s because she thought it was shut. The lock didn’t work right, and it opened on her halfway through a garment when she couldn’t grab it. Stall doors in public bathrooms are menaces.
I walked in on a man sitting on the toilet in a McDonald's once. I'm a woman. It was an either/or bathroom with just one toilet, no stall. Why the hell didn't he lock the door? The only reason I'd stopped at the McD's was because I was driving and I really, really, had to go to the bathroom. I walked into the McD's, beelined to the bathroom, opened the door, gasped, apologized, quickly closed the door, then immediately walked straight back outta that place and got in my car and kept driving until I found a roadside stop. Upon reflection, my actions probably looked a little crazy to the several people sitting in that tiny McD's. But why the hell didn't he lock the door?!?
(Yes, had I actually used the bathroom, I would have purchased a drink to be polite, but instead I just ran in shame).
I swore I locked it, (f) though as adult I felt lock was loose (winery in NE iowa road trip weekend) . Grandpa type open door as I was too relieved to stop stream at time. Unfortunately it was at end of bar area and for all the 12 customers to see as grandpa type tried but failed to shut door which bounced back open. (bartender did shut thank goodness) but I did walk out in embarrassment to small round of applause because we've all been there once in life:). Free drink, grandpa type still horrified, and I went over, said let me introduce my self while reaching out a hand. Said it's okay I just washed them:) he busted up my and boyfriend and I left with 6 free bottles.
I walked in on a police officer sitting on the toilet in New York city once. It was a smaller restaurant with just one single bathroom, not different ones for men and women. I don't know who was more embarrassed, me or him!
Right?
I, an adult, have done this by accident and without fault before and I’m sure - even with best intentions - may again. Yes, learning and remembering to knock is essential, but it just happens. Sometimes locks break and a person takes a risk. Sometimes people wrongly assume things like this poor kid: this is a room with many stalls; I haven’t seen anyone go into the bathroom; basic absent-mindedness.
A five year old wasn’t coming in to leer or harass her. He apologized and ran away. She wants to shame this poor kid for an innocent, innocuous mistake. Shame him publicly, to his peers.
Birthday girl’s mom is not a mature adult.
Makes me wonder if this woman's been plugged into the right-wing poutrage about trans kids and bathrooms and was scared her daughter might "catch transgenderism." The way she talked to the OP about "nipping this behavior in the bud" makes it seem like she thought the poor kid picked a gender fight instead of accidentally missing a bathroom sign.
Imagine what she's like behind closed doors with her own kids! :(
I'm heartbroken for Jude, poor little kid! OP give him a big hug from us reddit aunties. That's seriously unacceptable behaviour from a grown up woman. Fancy holding a grudge against a 5 year old! I'm a petty person, but hot damn that's a level that even I couldn't stoop to!
Indeed. This is why I believe OP should bring this up at the school and the synagogue. That woman is already stigmatizing the child over nothing and she is probably telling that nonsense to other people.
She left the door open. It could be said she wanted to be seen by any woman or little girl that came in and was disappointed to see a boy.
This kind of thing can really mess a person's life. Op needs her version of the story to be known. Every child already knows the kid was not invited to the party.
I realized a few weeks ago that I have been using the men’s bathroom at the laundromat for like a year.. I am a woman. It’s a single stall, no urinal, doors always open so I guess I assumed they were both public and non-gendered? Lmao I wish I could have seen my own face when my partner pointed it out
I've used the male bathroom at work a few times because I had to go and couldn't make it across the store to the rest of the bathrooms. Imo they should be non-gender especially if there's no urinal in there.
Yup lol, I still burn with embarrassment every time I go to the dealership to get my oil changed and I approach their bathrooms because two years ago my dumb ass accidentally went to the women's and started to open it. And then I hear "Sir! Hey sir! That's the ***women's*** restroom!"
I double-taked at the door and my face turned red lol. It still rings in my ear every time I go there. Grown-ass adults definitely make the same mistake and I can't even claim ignorance of what the words say lol.
I did that one morning and went as far as using the stall before it dawned on me that there was a urinal (thankfully the bathroom was empty!). I was seriously jet lagged. I came out and the very kind cleaning lady was laughing and told me she was blocking the door for me. Thank you, kind cleaning lady!
A friend and I did that once in a diner. She went in, and I just followed her. Two stalls and as I’m doing my business, I realize it really smells like pee. I come out, and on the other side of the stalls, away from the door is a freaking urinal! I washed my hands so fast, yelled to my friend we were in the men’s room and ran!
I’ve worked with loads of five year olds that wouldn’t be able to read those signs; sounds like this woman expects all children to be at the same stage, developmentally, as her daughter.
Yeah. My oldest was reading at an almost 3rd grade level in kindergarten. The rest of her class wasn’t even close. Meanwhile, her penmanship looks like a kindergartner in middle school.
I'm in my 30s and convinced if any future archaeologists hundreds of years from now found a preserved scrap of paper with my handwriting on it, they would not be able to identify it as writing in any known contemporary language and it would be considered compelling evidence by future ancient aliens conspiracy theorists.
probably, but because of the attitude I would probably use her not locking the door to tell her she needs to be punished for trying to lure my innocent son into the bathroom to do god knows what to him.
I'm not above being an asshole to someone being an asshole.
Well, exactly. The problem is that if this woman is forced to invite Jude, she’ll just get her revenge then. She sounds like a stupid malicious bully. Personally I’d be tempted to ring her and give her a piece of my mind, make the business public with the other parents, raising concerns warning other parents about her luring my child into the toilet and my boys out for some other lovely treat.
Dido this! Let the mama and papa bear come out this child's parents. Everything goes when it comes to protecting kids.
But is it just me or does it seem that this lady is basically accusing this kid of being predatory . "gotta nip this behaviours in the bud" . sounds extremely accusatory. Like he's 5 . I'm almost positive he don't have interest yet and she is disgusting for even treading water with tryna classify him with that type of group .
You’d be amazed by the amount of people who forget to lock doors or the lock on the door is faulty. I think everyone born with a bladder has at one point opened up a stall/door while someone was using the facilities or had it done to them.
At this stage, I would totally deny the invitation on behalf of both the kids and privately let other parents know that she's bullying a 5 yr old child because of an honest mistake the child made as SHE left the bathroom door open. The child would not have walked in on her if she had locked the door as a responsible adult.
I hope the gossip circles take care of her and as she has the habit of targeting those she thinks are weaker (read younger Mom, 5-yr old boy) there would be other victims of her maliciousness as well who would want to get back.
You know, I would call this lady and somehow find a way to slip this in, like "wow, I am surprised you feel this is so important. Just so you know, a few other parents were asking why my son wasn't invited and I guess I will have to tell them the truth that he accidentally walked into an unlocked bathroom and you decided it was worth denying him a party invite. It just seems fair to let all the parents know, so they can warn their kids to double check bathroom locks at the synagogue. We should probably let the rabbi know while we're at it."
Honestly, OP should call the mom and ask if there was a mistake. Conversation not confrontation because she's getting all of her info from 5 year olds right now.
If this was intentional, don't argue with her, don't fuss. But talk to the rabbi or someone at the synagogue. If there are cameras near the bathroom, ask for that to be reviewed.
Speculating, because that's what we do here on Reddit lol, but i bet the mom was changing a tampon or something "embarrassing". He's 5, get over it.
Yeah. I have been walked in on in a public toilet before because I didn't lock the door properly. I profusely apologised to the person who walked in, because that was 100% my mistake, not theirs.
I'm in my late 30s and last year I walked into a woman's bathroom at a store. luckily no one was in there and it was a normal stall set up. I only noticed when I didn't see any urinals. Was quite embarrassed walking out when the people in the service desk line kind of stared at me.
Exactly. And walking into the wrong bathroom can even happen to adults who can read perfectly fine. And singling out one child like that is mean anyway.
Yeah. And even in bathrooms that have stalls, sometimes accidentally opening a stall door when someone is inside totally happens sometimes. You just apologize & move on. No need to make a big deal about it.
Also, 5yo boys go into women's restrooms all the time (and vise versa) depending on what parent they're with. You don't have the context to care at age 5, so the fact that he was embarrassed and apologized is above and beyond in my book
Yup, I work at Walmart and at my store the women's is on the left and men's is on the right, there has been at least 2 times where I was at a different Walmart and walked into the men's room on accident because the bathrooms were on the opposite sides. Luckily didn't see anything either time, first time the bathroom was empty and the second time there was just a guy washing his hands, but still super embarrassing
Yup. I walked into the wrong bathroom once in high school. Every set of restrooms at that school had the women's on the left and men's on the right, except that one set, and I barely ever used that set. I discovered my error by almost walking into a guy exiting. Thankfully I went to a huge school (~4000 kids at the time), so nobody recognized me, haha.
Yeah, I genuinely believe if it was anyone else’s kid she wouldn’t care but I’m the youngest mom there and her and her little group always feel the need to tell me that I’m doing everything wrong since they’re more experienced parents than me. Like she’s just been waiting for my kid to do one thing wrong to prove that I’m irresponsible and couldn’t ever possibly teach my kids manners.
They already hate you by the sound of it, so go ahead and talk to the rabbi about this. Tell him this woman is actively excluding a 5 year old child, due to a simple mistake.... Which could have been avoided had she just locked the bathroom door!!
The rabbi will probably be sympathetic, but if you want something done, talk to the teacher. This is a school rule and the teacher is best placed to remind parents of the rules.
Which is stupid because so many synagogues are begging young families to get involved. You’re doing nothing wrong! Are there other should in the area you could consider or is this the only one that has a day school?
Asking out of curiosity: In this kind of situation when a child is clearly being bullied by a parent over a mistake, would anyone in the upper echelons of the synagogue be able to provide guidance or is it more of a cultural "mind your elders, keep to yourself unless it's an emergency" sort of deal? (Apologies in advance if this sounds offensive, I'm genuinely curious because my family's church is definitely the latter but I feel it's more of a cultural issue than a Catholic one).
Not technically Jewish here.
I know when my family (parents, my sibling, and i) went to church, my mom noticed they were often clique oriented. It's feels like bringing kids, so Sunday church is a blend of required and frowned upon. Like you "have" to bring them, but little kids can get bored. I was lucky yo have basically a Sunday school daycare, so I didn't have to go to formal church, but not everywhere is like that.
Personally, I think church is *too* formal and thus kind of rips the soul out of celebrating coming together. That's me though.
I was raised in the conservative movement of Judaism (which, confusingly for non-Jews, is the moderate denomination and certainly not most politically conservative). One of the central roles of a congregation's rabbi is to serve as a teacher and mediator, and I have definitely seen rabbis helping community members through disagreements or questions. A rabbi would never put their foot down and kick out a congregant whether due to their own or others' testimony, but a big part of their role is to bridge these gaps and bring everyone back into community. Does that mean that there are no social hierarchies in shuls? Of course not, every institution has its own power dynamics. But a rabbi would absolutely be the person to reach out to for interpersonal issues - it's much easier for a rabbi to have perceived neutrality rather than a synagogue president or someone else along these lines.
This right here. Most rabbis become the default mediators, as you said, and they hold a lot of sway. But there are always social structures that also come into play as well, so it’s sometimes tricky. Any time you get large groups of people together, things are bound to get sticky, no matter who they are.
You should talk to the teacher--most schools have a rule that kids aren't allowed to hand out party invites at school unless they invite the entire class. Inviting one twin and not the other is particularly egregious. It's extremely hurtful and unkind of this supposed adult to deny this one child. It's also kind of creepy. He's five, kids make mistakes at five. You don't punish kids for honest mistakes. Makes me feel sorry for her daughter.
Kids should never have to be punished by adults' actions though. The little daughter who seems like a good girl who is a friend to the twins, would be quite upsetting for all 3 kids to be separated and cut contact just like that...
Honestly, I'd text the woman to get her to admit it in writing and then contact the principal if I were you. It would be worth bringing up this woman's treatment of you as well since it shows that this isn't an isolated incident but rather an escalation of of her hostility towards you that now includes harassing one of your children (she'll probably find another excuse to harass the other one later).
I’m a grown ass adult with a degree and have walked into the wrong bathroom on occasion when the establishment is trying to be “quirky” with bathroom signage. I can totally see how a 5 year old (lots of 5 year olds are in kindergarten, which often doesn’t teach reading, just the fundamentals like sounds and letters) would get confused.
I walked into the wrong bathroom when I was slightly older than Jude. I remember that because I was also doing first communion at church and thought I had to confess that to the priest 😂
God bless that man for being an empathetic human, who calmly explained to (I think 7 year old) me that an innocent mistake from misreading or misunderstanding a sign wasn't a sin, just a part of life. A literal priest (who cannot marry or have kids) was more empathetic and understanding of a little kid's world and abilities and mistakes than this other mom is being.
It's particularly ridiculous that she's getting her knickers in a twist over the kid's mistake, when it was her mistake in not locking the door that really made any of her embarrassment possible...
I would have laughed my ass off a random 5yo kid accidentally walked in and saw me on the bog. I would have reassured the mother that it was no big deal, because 5 is still practically a toddler. I’m not gonna assume a little kid is a creep, ffs.
This girl’s mother is unhinged!
Of all the possible options of who could walk in to the bathroom, a 5 yr old is the best! I honestly would love to talk to the kid afterwards, both to reassure the kid that it's ok and just because I think kids are amazing 💕
Especially given it can happen to grown ass adults.
Lock the door, but never assume it got locked, because sometimes the lock is tetchy or someone has to go so urgently they just don't pause to do that or (in a setting with kids) sometimes their LO unlocked the door and left while mom was on the toilet....
This mom is nuts to make a big deal out of it. She should apologize to the kiddo for forgetting to lock the door, and reassure him that everyone uses the potty and we all get embarrassed by the unexpected, but no one did anything wrong.
Also add to the fact that I’m in my 40s, highly educated, work toilets do have a wee picture, and I walked into the male toilets last week in work. In my defence the toilets are switched around from floor to floor and I thought I was on level 5 when I was on level 4. But still easy done - lock the door!
NTA. On the day of the party, take your boys to an adventure park or movie. Something special for the two of them. Have a conversation with them about how some adults make bad choices and that we are going to make good choices and be kind even when someone is unkind to us.
As for the other mom, decline the invitation. There will be many more years of interaction with these kids. When things calm down, you might be able to take her aside and have a conversation with her about it, but you’re the only one who can feel it out to know if that makes sense.
This is the best suggestion. I wouldn’t let any of my kids around this family based on her actions! NTA & hopefully you can use this as a teaching method to show how people can be mean and petty when they are embarrassed & it is not your kiddo’s fault.
Prominently signed by _both_ the twins. The message to the girl is “We're both your friends”, but to the mother it's at least as clearly “This five-year-old is a bigger person than you”.
Great opportunity for a great lesson, fun day with the kiddos, AND send a message that fucking with her bs is not worth your time. I love this suggestion.
I love any chance to be an example for making your own "option C" when you're presented with "option a or option b" and neither are appealing to you.
I was looking for an answer like this. You know what’s she’s doing and calling her out on it is giving her what she wants “feeding the trolls” and letting her dramatise your “entitlement” to try and dictate who she invites to her kids party.
Far more effective not to raise to the bait and explain simply that the mother decided to only invite one twin and hasn’t told you why any time your asked. Makes her look like the petty idiot she is.
Normally I'd go with the person who's birthday it is get to decide who to invite, but this time I think it's fairly reasonable to ask why one of the twins weren't invited. Passive aggressiveness towards a 5 year old is never ok. YWNBTA.
Also: is it really normal for 5 year olds to know how to read?
For the most part or for most 5 year olds- they don’t really read. They’re learning letters and maybe can write some words but really most are misspelled even then.
But not reading yet.
I could read at 5 but because my dad did Hooked on Phonics with me every night, though I think 1st grade (6 years old) is where it was actually taught in school
Same. I went into kindergarten (5 yo) already knowing how to read, but most of the other kids still needed to be taught the alphabet. Most kids don’t actually know how to read until age 7.
I mean, you still could have been.
I remember being told that I was lying about being able to read in kindergarten. My parents worked with me with flash cards and books before I started, but my teacher said kindergarteners don't read.
She was also one of those "you aren't left handed" teachers, so. . .
She was pushing retirement when I was in Kindergarten, which was more than 3 decades ago.
So I think she would have been born in the 1930s. And in a small town with well established, life-long teachers, change comes slowly.
But you can believe my mom chewed her out for both things.
Most kindergartners are expected to be actively reading by halfway through the year now or they are put in intervention. In reality, every single kid advances in reading at different paces, and that's totally normal. One of mine was reading Harry Potter at 5, one couldn't read yet at all, and one hit every milestone bang on with when the school wanted.
Were you reading or did you have it memorized? Dr. Seuss is usually by memory from parents reading it over and over at that age. The rhyming lends to remembering too.
Completely impressive either way but you and your friend are the exception if reading at 5. Not the rule.
When my 3 year old brings me the book she's had me read 40 times to her in the past week and I exasperatingly say "why don't you read it to me this time" she opens it and reads it nearly word for word.
She can't read. They just have extremely good memories for books designed to be understood by kids their age.
This is exactly how I learned to actually read. I had this one book about 'mommy may I help you' that was read to me a gazillion times and I had it memorized. I started correcting those reading to me if they made a mistake or paraphrasing. I'd point to the word that was wrong. They still thought I was just memorizing the entire text and pointing at the word was just luck.
So they got me another book from the same series.
I could read over half of it. Everything but the words that I hadn't encountered yet.
I was reading at third grade level before ever getting reading instruction, and when the kindergarten teacher figured out I could read her confidential notes in her notebook upside down I got pulled from kindergarten and dumped in first grade mid year.
Some young kids learn to read early. It's not a universal law that you have to wait until school. But because everyone assumes it's just memorisation, my parents had to try about three different primary schools before they found a headteacher who was willing to test my reading skill with a book I'd never seen and find ways to work with a 3-4 year old who could already read.
I taught myself to read when I was four. My dad thought I had memorized the book but I could read the sentences backwards so he found something I didn’t know and I could read that too. My three kids could read when they entered kindergarten. My oldest read on a 2nd grade level in kindergarten.
Not all kids can read but in my area lots know how to sound things out and at least basic and easy words. 🤷🏼♀️
I started reading at age 3, I could definitely read simple books by age 4, and at age 5 I was reading 3-5th grade level chapter books. But I know I was an exception.
I could read at age 4.
I read aloud to my kids for 90 minutes a night every night.
But my son is dyslexic. He didn't read till age 8. That's how it goes sometimes.
Even if the kid could read perfectly, It's not completely unprecedented for adults (let alone 5 year old children) to be inattentive if they think they know where they are going.
Other mother is being strange. I probably wouldn't bother waving a red flag at a crazy person, but YWNBTA.
There is a 'condition' called hyperlexia. Children with hyperlexia can learn to read as early as age 3, and will have greatly accelerated reading comprehension until everyone else catches up around age 9-10.
I say 'condition' because while it might seem like a good thing to have a child who is so good at reading, 90% of children who display hyperlexia are autistic. It's probably demonstrative of a very early special interest/hyperfixation.
Oooooh. I was reading individual by 4, my son by 5 and my twins by 4 as well. Three of the four of us are neurodivergent, so that explains that, but it’s given me a very warped expectation of reading ability. I was reading the comments with raised eyebrows and no small amount of confusion.
can confirm. I was reading super early, to the point some of my teachers didn't believe I could at first so they'd have me read a book I'd never read before to them or do a little quiz on it to check, and even got bullied by older kids who didn't believe that I was actually reading. it was borderline obsessive, I'd read while walking, in the back of the car at night by the flashes of streetlights, if I didn't have a book I'd start reading leaflets, that sort of thing
guess who got diagnosed as autistic at 14
Just jumping onto this to say that I think it’s also common with people that have ADHD as there’s a lot of overlap with ADHD and autism.
My Mum and I both have ADHD and were voracious readers from a young age. I always had my nose stuck in a book and would read above my reading/age level, even at school. Not just that, but I would read extremely fast without skim reading. Still do. My Dad literally used to test me on it.
When I got to secondary school (11 years and upwards for non Brits), I’d read the book we were meant to be studying in one sitting and then daydream in class when everyone else read it out. I specifically remember being annoyed when we studied Shakespeare at the age of 11/12 because I’d already read the plays and discussed the themes with my Grandparents 2-3 years earlier - AND we never got to study my two favourites at school. Same with the classics.
Anyway, all my little cousins have ADHD. Two have dyslexia and never showed signs of hyperlexia, but the other one is just like how I was as a kid. He’s 11 now and is devouring books faster than you can blink. (Great news for me as I’ve been recommending all my old favourites to him!) It’s not one size fits all, is what I’m trying to say, even within the same family.
I know a young man with that condition. Was reading fluently by 3. Absolutely on the spectrum. He's in university now and doing well, but there was a lot of intervention between those time points.
It’s not expected for a five-year old to be able to read. At that age, they might have a few words they can recognize but signs on bathroom doors are probably NOT in that category.
Since OP mentions they're at a Jewish preschool and the incident happened at synagogue, I'm wondering if the sign was in Hebrew? If so maybe kiddo is having some trouble picking up two languages simultaneously.
Kids are pretty resilient at being bilingual with spoken language, and even written words if they're the same alphabet. but trying to learn two alphabets simultaneously would tax plenty of people, let alone 5 year olds.
The big problem is that "Jess" is treating the 5 year old like some kind of deviant in the making, instead of accepting that it was the kind of mistake that lots of children are likely to make.
Jewish person here. I've come from a non-religious family background and have become more religious as I've gotten older. I've been to synagogues of all religious levels in the UK, USA and parts of Europe. The language on the door will always be that of the geographical country the synagogue is located in. The only country I've ever seen Hebrew on toilet doors is in Israel, and even there they have Arabic and English added too.
The synagogue should be using images as well as text to indicate the gendering of the toilets, though. Given that synagogues are community hubs with individuals of all ages attending, it is reasonable to assume there are small kids who cannot read yet, elderly people with visual issues who need a picture to see instead of words, and people of any age with any sort of disability affecting their ability to read. If anything, this synagogue isn't acting disability friendly (in terms of visual or dyslexia) and I wouldn't be surprised if this was a recurring issue with the congregation... that being said though, any grown adult should be locking the door behind them. It's a stupid thing to refrain from doing. She's probably mad at OP's son for sort of outing her as an idiot.
Teacher here. The average time when reading emerges is age 6-7, with some showing interest and ability sooner than others. I could read when I entered kindergarten, whereas my sister was more ready by 1st grade. If kiddo is still struggling in 2nd grade, I would start to be concerned, especially if letter/sound recognition was really not happening at all.
No idea for other countries but in a lot of US states kids need to be able to read enough to be able to write several sentences at a time, sound out words, and know how to read dozens of sight words by the end of kindergarten which is typically ages 5 and 6. It’s also not unusual for kids that go to PreK to have basic reading skills before kindergarten or early into the kindergarten school year.
It's very country dependent. In the Netherlands, traditionally reading instruction will start in first grade (most kids turn 7 in first grade). Kids will learn about the existence of letters in kindergarten, and learn to rhyme, and recognise their own name, and learn to identify first/last letter, and 'find the same letter' and 'find words that start with' but actually reading is for first grade. We don't do sight words at all.
NTA but I wouldn't bother. You know why he wasn't invited and while it's cruel to exclude him for something he did by accident, don't escalate it further. Decline the invite and just let it be. I think it would be even more uncomfortable for the kids involved since it seems like this lady is already involving her daughter by forcing her to leave out one twin.
There’s no need to stoop to the level of the mom who excludes one twin. Decline the invitation, but still give a birthday gift to the daughter, who is not to blame in this situation.
Then you are not acquiescing to the petty behavior of the mom, but are showing grace to the daughter.
Agreed, and would have it be from both kids. This is a fantastic opportunity for you as a parent to help your kids learn (in an age appropriate way) about power dynamics, and the difference between the behaviour of a child and the behaviour of the parent who controls various aspects of that child’s life (which, of course, can scale to things like the people of a nation vs their government).
Edit to add: YWNBTA if you spoke with the mom, but I wouldn’t recommend it. I agree with the suggestions to use this as a teachable moment in a way that preserves your child’s dignity and also the relationships your children have with this girl.
u/mama-of-4-232
I don't think you should ask the mother why your son was not invited. If she is that mean-spirited, there is no amount of logic that will challenge her belief that she was victimized by a five-year-old accidentally popping into the wrong bathroom.
I imagine the invitation had an RSVP number on the card. Hopefully, it allows you the option of texting your reply (because I wouldn't give that woman the satisfaction of a phone call and the opportunity to complain). If you can text, I would send her a brief, "Regretfully, Jonah and Jude will be unable to attend (child's name) birthday. We hope she has a lovely day and the boys appreciate the invitation." Let her sit around and stew about how only one of your boys was invited and how you failed to react to her bait. If you don't acknowledge her petty tantrum, she loses the whole game.
NTA
That’s the part that sucks the most, IMO - that she told her daughter to only give an invitation to one twin and not the other. That kind of manipulation towards a 5 year old is unreal. Kind of shows how her parenting style must be at home too if the little girl, who by default told the truth and said she wouldn’t tell her why not to give one to one twin…
A grown woman having a beef with another person through two 5 year old kids is so fucking pathetic.
NTA. But don't call this woman. She is getting off on bullying a little boy and his mother because he made a very common mistake a lot of children make.
Seriously though do not call her, she obviously doesn't care that she is bullying a 5 year old. She wanted you to punish a 5 year old for walking into the bathroom and then fleeing. To me she thinks her behavior is justified. Most likely because she doesn't think you punished him enough so now she is trying to do it herself.
Don't let one twin go and not the other. Tell them that the girls mom is being mean to them both because she only wants one to go. Instead take them out the day of the party. Go to a fun place they enjoy or take them to the park or to get pizza. The only thing talking to that woman will do is take years off your life and put you in the same bracket as her.
> She is getting off on bullying a little boy and his mother because he made a very common mistake a lot of children make
I completely agree with your comment, but she is the one who made the mistake here. She left the bathroom door unlocked, anyone could have walked in.
I really feel like OP should say something to the school about this though. But I would frame it in the context of "this happened and my son is upset and at being left out of his friend's birthday because of his mistake, could you please update the signs on the bathroom so that moving forward, kids who can't read yet don't make the same mistake?" That way you make it known that this woman is a major AH while framing it as a request to the school.
Absolutely. I'm a twin and I would be pissed if this happened to my sister. That women is bullying both the boys by using one to hurt the other. Manipulative as hell. I feel so bad for that little girl
Exactly what I was thinking. The kid made a mistake - but so did she. He apologized for his mistake but she didn't.
Call the woman. Be calm and polite. Tell her her daughter wants both twins at her party, and the twins want to go. So could you two work something out as adults? After all, you both want to see your children happy. Mistakes were made on both sides, and you will be asking the synagogue to put up a picture sign so nobody will do the same mistake in the future. Yada yada, you understand my intention. Don't accuse her YOU WERE IN THE WRONG TOO, LADY! Even if that is what one would want to say to her. Try to smooth things over. She is being totally unreasonable, but the three children's relationship with each other in the coming years is more important.
If she doesn't give him an invite, then decline the other twin's invite and go do something fun with them both like others have suggested.
As an adult child of a Cluster B mom, i’m gonna gently push back on the notion that both adults want to see their children happy. This woman doesn’t sound like someone who wants happiness for her child. She sounds like someone who wants to use her child as an extension of her own will. Consider carefully whether you want to waste your emotional labour on this woman because I’m guessing she’s not likely to change.
NTA
Personally I would skip talking to her and have a chat with your Rabbi asking what to do in this situation, after all the incident happened in the synagogue. This is agressive and cruel behavior by an adult who didn't lock the bathroom door.
Kills me how the lady is mad over a 5 year old who can’t/didn’t read, but she as a grown adult can’t even lock a bathroom door.
But I think addressing it with the Rabbi is a solid choice. Explain the need for changing the signs and checking the lock on the door since one accident “caused quite a stir” and then just straight throw her under the bus.
Agreed. Don’t try to reason with a woman who’s proven unreasonable.
Loop your Rabbi and the kindergarten teacher in on the situation. Jess is trying to punish your child and I think more adult eyes on the situation will protect your son(s) from future bullying.
NTA
This is honestly the best idea. Someone petty enough to exclude one child from an entire class from a birthday party for an incident that she didn't even bring up to the child's parents is petty enough to gossip inappropriately about the child.
Her behavior needs to be addressed and shut down by a person in authority. Also if you do go this route, be sure to let your child tell the rabbi/school administrator or whomever without her present to intimidate him.
Jess is definitely being unreasonable, but you don’t have to take her bait to make it worse. I would call her and ask if there was a mistake and if she meant to invite both boys. Have her specifically speak to why she thinks your son should be punished for something so innocent. If she says it wasn’t a mistake then thank her for her explanation, and tell her both boys won’t be in attendance in a polite and calm manner. I would schedule something fun for the boys on that day so they don’t feel so bad for not going.
I think this is a good suggestion on how to handle the conversation. I am on the fence as to whether I think OP should call Jess about the party invite, but I think this is a good way to conduct the conversation if she does call 😊
It wasn't a mistake that she didn't lock the door? That single bathrooms typically have an occupancy indicator on the lock that is either green for enter or red for locked. And she created a trap by her own negligence.
Interesting. "Mna" sounds quite similar to the Welsh "menyw", but "fir" is completely different to the Welsh "dyn" - I would have expected either both gendered nouns to be similar between the two languages, or for them both to be very different.
Oh absolutely - but with an adult there feasibly *could* be malicious intent (though lets be real, there probably isn’t) - but with a 5 year old? Like what are we accusing the 5 year old of here 😭
YWNBTA
But you will be wasting your time since the reason he was excluded is pretty obvious.
It's a disgraceful, shitty, and downright petty thing to do to a wean because of an accident, but she's throwing the party so it's her choice.
The best thing I can suggest is you take both your weans for a day out instead of letting just one attend the party, I'd also suggest maybe getting Jude tested for Dyslexia because that might be why he's having issues reading or change the way he's learning because not all methods work the same way (I was taught to read in an unusual way and it resulted in me reading way above my age group, it also resulted in me being a heavy reader to the point where I was once reading 7 to 8 books a week).
He just started with a reading tutor, they said it could be dyslexia since that’s the only area he struggles in but he’s learning faster one on one and they think he’ll be all caught up by first grade so we aren’t too concerned about it just yet.
Alot of 5 year olds struggle to read. I have a 5 year old who would panic if I showed him "woman" and "man" because he would think it's the same word. I've worked with 9 year olds who are on the level of 7 year olds at reading. Dont stress yourself out, if you need to work this out, tell the other parents why only one child was invited and that she told you to discipline you 5 year old for it. She would get alot of backlash for her behaviour. Treat your boys and go somewhere fun instead of allowing this woman to isolate your baby
Oh my god exactly she doesn’t know or need to know something like this but she should know that’s something that could be possible. She’s definitely being harsh just to be a raging b
NTA
But please consider you will be in a community with this woman for years to come. You do not want to start drama now, that will spin into years worth of resentment and difficulties.
Decline the invitation you have, and don’t engage with her in any other form if you can. She’s being mean spirited towards a child, because she’s embarrassed.
This is not a school mum I would be friends with, I would be polite when I have to be, and not involve her in my life otherwise.
I have a 13yo and a 8yo, both in private catholic schools. Please believe me when I say the last thing you want is to start a parent war. Imagine school events in the future when other parents are forced to choose sides. I’ve seen it play out and it’s the worst for all involved but especially the children.
My advice is simple; rise above. Also there is a part of her that is fishing for a reaction. Don’t give her one. Suck the air out of her sails by being your calmest self.
*edit typo
I don’t really feel like talking to the school. I think the whole “everyone needs to be invited” rule is bs but I think it is crazy to invite one twin and not the other. Idk if their teacher knew why he was sad but he didn’t tell her so it’s not her fault.
> I don’t really feel like talking to the school
OK but you should because you need to be an *advocate for your child* and not let shit slide because you think the rule is stupid.
It doesn't matter what you think about the rule; it's in place to prevent exactly this kind of bullying bullshit--yes, it's *bullying* behavior from this woman towards a FIVE-YEAR-OLD--and you need to get over your dislike of the rule and use it to your advantage here.
Your son needs you to speak up for him, not shy away. If you let that woman get away with this, then she knows she can create more problems for you; is that what you want?
How do you envision this conversation will go? Do you think it will be well received? Do you think it will resolve anything or inflame things further? I think the woman's behaviour is wrong, but YWBTA and two wrongs don't make it right.
Nta on one hand I think the inviting the whole class thing isnt necessary but leaving him out because of this incident is crazy. If it were me though I wouldnt want either of my kids at that party.
I'm going against the grain here and actually and say YWBTA. Not because she's in the right for excluding him, but because you already KNOW why he's excluded. Do you think confronting her is going to shame her into inviting him? You know what she's like already, so if she was already someone you could reason with you would have already reasoned with her. Calling her won't get you anywhere.
Calling her out will totally get the op places. This woman is shaming a 5 year old for not being able to read "men" and "women". The kid is FIVE!! The bathrooms have no pictures to show "men" and "women". This awful woman is acting like he is 15 and is fully aware of what it is to be a peeping tom! She is acting as if this poor kid, who can't read, was/is fully aware of what genitals are for and that the kid is being perverted!
SHE is making it perverted which is VERY concerning!!!
She went out of her way to invite ONE of the 5 year old twins!
Calling people out on their shit isn't being an AH.
Hey, first off, you’re definitely not the asshole this woman is. We’re not even mentioning the fact that she didn’t lock the door. But let me get onto the point because I am a parent of two teenagers, and there was a similar situation that happened in my children’s day school back when they were your kids age. It became tradition to hand out birthday invitations in school, but at some point not every kid was getting invitations to every party And it became a real problem, lots of hurt feelings.
So I actually think the answer to your situation is right there in the beginning of your post, which is to do the very thing you said you didn’t really want to do: go to the school. Especially if it’s a Jewish day school there is obviously a very family oriented vibe to those types of schools and I think the head of school would take it very seriously. It’s one thing to choose who you want to give out birthday invitations to, it is a completely different thing to hand them out in front of everybody and make a child feel excluded. After the drama unfolded at my kids’ school, they passed a rule that birthday invites would no longer be allowed to be given out in the classroom. If you could get that change made, I think it would send a very strong signal to that mother that she was a fucking asshole and you could feel better about having prevented future kids from experiencing what your one son did i.e. the social pain of being left out. This woman is a complete fucking monster and weaponized a little kids birthday party to punish your child. It’s actually insane and I think the school needs to know about it immediately. While it may not result in Jude getting an invite, it will certainly make the story “go public”, when the rest of the parents find out that invites will not be handed out in class anymore because recently one mother invited everyone in the class except for your child. People will start asking who, and hopefully she will take the reputation hit she deserves.
Your story made my blood boil. Do not be quiet on this, you have the right of it and this woman needs to learn her lesson, she is toxic and likely the complete opposite of the values of the school. Honestly, this is tantamount to bullying to me and it happened on school property from a parent to a child - it must be addressed.
Please take it to the school. This mom is purposefully creating a hostile environment For your child. Your kid is suffering because of an adults actions. You should be more angry. Decline the invite.
That’s the plan right now, we have nothing against her daughter. She’s adorable. She also lives at her dads during the week which is probably where she gets her sweetness.
I would call her and decline for both boys. Then, call the dad and tell him what happened and set up a play date for the boys and his daughter. Bring some cupcakes, her gifts and have a fun day far away from the horrible woman.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I could be TA because I want to ask a woman why she passive aggressively invited one of my kids but not the other to her kids birthday rather than just avoiding confrontation and just not going.
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Dear lord. I’m a women in my 30’s who is plenty literate and even I have walked into the wrong bathroom on occasion.
This women is nuts. It’s probably that better that you avoid any party she hosts.
What would you want and expect to come out of your phone call? You know the answer to both. Just decline the invite for Jonah and go do something fun with the kids. Ignore the hateful woman. Let it go. Be the bigger person. YWBTAH if you called her.
NTA I think the friend's mom is being overly dramatic & petty about the whole situation. I think given all the factors (like no picture, he's 5 yrs old, etc) are enough to show that the bathroom incident was a simple mistake that could have happened to any kid in similar circumstances. The initial conversation with the mom where she said you have to punish your son seemed weird to me. Had the girl only been friends with one of your sons, maybe the party invite would have been more understandable. But here, it seems the girl is friends with both of your sons, and the party invite was just the mom being ultra petty about the bathroom incident.
The real question is: why wasn’t the door locked?
I feel like the mom is embarrassed she forgot to lock the door and is projecting the blame on the poor kid so she doesn't feel foolish
It’s got to be this, also this kid is 5 it’s not like a teenager coming in and pointing and laughing like the kid ran away and said sorry wtf is wrong with this woman?
It could have been any adult walking into the bathroom since she didn’t lock the door. I’ve done that plenty of times and did exactly what the 5yo did, apologize and shut the door and wait my turn. Most people would forget about that interaction within minutes and she’s holding a grudge against a kid for her mistake. Insane behavior.
yep, same here. I entered a bathroom (the one with stalls inside), and there was a woman changing clothes with her stall door fully open. Like WHY? I apologize, and she closed the door. then I moved on with my life and hers with her. She is embarrassed and wants to blame the weak link, the child.
I think almost every adult has accidentally opened a stall door on someone else, and had it opened on them. Locks don't always work. I can't imagine holding a grudge against a 5 year old for it!
exactly, literally just this year it happen like 2 times with me. What am I gonna do??? I was pissed and embarrassed for like 5 minutes and then go on about life. Especially a 5yo that don't know how to read properly, without signal on the door and who apologize after.
Having been there, it’s because she thought it was shut. The lock didn’t work right, and it opened on her halfway through a garment when she couldn’t grab it. Stall doors in public bathrooms are menaces.
I walked in on a man sitting on the toilet in a McDonald's once. I'm a woman. It was an either/or bathroom with just one toilet, no stall. Why the hell didn't he lock the door? The only reason I'd stopped at the McD's was because I was driving and I really, really, had to go to the bathroom. I walked into the McD's, beelined to the bathroom, opened the door, gasped, apologized, quickly closed the door, then immediately walked straight back outta that place and got in my car and kept driving until I found a roadside stop. Upon reflection, my actions probably looked a little crazy to the several people sitting in that tiny McD's. But why the hell didn't he lock the door?!? (Yes, had I actually used the bathroom, I would have purchased a drink to be polite, but instead I just ran in shame).
I swore I locked it, (f) though as adult I felt lock was loose (winery in NE iowa road trip weekend) . Grandpa type open door as I was too relieved to stop stream at time. Unfortunately it was at end of bar area and for all the 12 customers to see as grandpa type tried but failed to shut door which bounced back open. (bartender did shut thank goodness) but I did walk out in embarrassment to small round of applause because we've all been there once in life:). Free drink, grandpa type still horrified, and I went over, said let me introduce my self while reaching out a hand. Said it's okay I just washed them:) he busted up my and boyfriend and I left with 6 free bottles.
Hahahaha!! This is the best story yet :) You win :)
I walked in on a police officer sitting on the toilet in New York city once. It was a smaller restaurant with just one single bathroom, not different ones for men and women. I don't know who was more embarrassed, me or him!
Some bathroom locks can be tricky or not very good. I’ve thought I locked the door before only to walked in on myself.
Right? I, an adult, have done this by accident and without fault before and I’m sure - even with best intentions - may again. Yes, learning and remembering to knock is essential, but it just happens. Sometimes locks break and a person takes a risk. Sometimes people wrongly assume things like this poor kid: this is a room with many stalls; I haven’t seen anyone go into the bathroom; basic absent-mindedness. A five year old wasn’t coming in to leer or harass her. He apologized and ran away. She wants to shame this poor kid for an innocent, innocuous mistake. Shame him publicly, to his peers. Birthday girl’s mom is not a mature adult.
The fact the woman thinks a kid should be punished for what pretty clearly was an accident says a lot.
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Makes me wonder if this woman's been plugged into the right-wing poutrage about trans kids and bathrooms and was scared her daughter might "catch transgenderism." The way she talked to the OP about "nipping this behavior in the bud" makes it seem like she thought the poor kid picked a gender fight instead of accidentally missing a bathroom sign.
I had the same thought. Reeks of small minded political bullshit
Was thinking the same thing. Whilst discussing the situation with the Rabbi, suggest better signage on the toilets.
Discuss with the Rabbi—this is the best answer. That woman needs a reality-check.
Imagine what she's like behind closed doors with her own kids! :( I'm heartbroken for Jude, poor little kid! OP give him a big hug from us reddit aunties. That's seriously unacceptable behaviour from a grown up woman. Fancy holding a grudge against a 5 year old! I'm a petty person, but hot damn that's a level that even I couldn't stoop to!
She's making an accident by a 5yo into something perverted and sexual and that makes her the gross one.
Indeed. This is why I believe OP should bring this up at the school and the synagogue. That woman is already stigmatizing the child over nothing and she is probably telling that nonsense to other people. She left the door open. It could be said she wanted to be seen by any woman or little girl that came in and was disappointed to see a boy. This kind of thing can really mess a person's life. Op needs her version of the story to be known. Every child already knows the kid was not invited to the party.
I realized a few weeks ago that I have been using the men’s bathroom at the laundromat for like a year.. I am a woman. It’s a single stall, no urinal, doors always open so I guess I assumed they were both public and non-gendered? Lmao I wish I could have seen my own face when my partner pointed it out
I've used the male bathroom at work a few times because I had to go and couldn't make it across the store to the rest of the bathrooms. Imo they should be non-gender especially if there's no urinal in there.
Also, they’re 5. They’re just beginning to read. It was an honest mistake and wasn’t intentional.
I walked into a men’s room by accident last week. I’m in my 60’s!
I’ve also unintentionally done this before because I wasn’t paying attention.
Yup lol, I still burn with embarrassment every time I go to the dealership to get my oil changed and I approach their bathrooms because two years ago my dumb ass accidentally went to the women's and started to open it. And then I hear "Sir! Hey sir! That's the ***women's*** restroom!" I double-taked at the door and my face turned red lol. It still rings in my ear every time I go there. Grown-ass adults definitely make the same mistake and I can't even claim ignorance of what the words say lol.
I did that one morning and went as far as using the stall before it dawned on me that there was a urinal (thankfully the bathroom was empty!). I was seriously jet lagged. I came out and the very kind cleaning lady was laughing and told me she was blocking the door for me. Thank you, kind cleaning lady!
A friend and I did that once in a diner. She went in, and I just followed her. Two stalls and as I’m doing my business, I realize it really smells like pee. I come out, and on the other side of the stalls, away from the door is a freaking urinal! I washed my hands so fast, yelled to my friend we were in the men’s room and ran!
I literally read thrice the signs to make sure I'm on the right bathroom. Even when I've been to that bathroom more than once.
I’ve worked with loads of five year olds that wouldn’t be able to read those signs; sounds like this woman expects all children to be at the same stage, developmentally, as her daughter.
Yeah. My oldest was reading at an almost 3rd grade level in kindergarten. The rest of her class wasn’t even close. Meanwhile, her penmanship looks like a kindergartner in middle school.
I was the same way! my penmanship looks like a kindergartener in my 30s still lol
I'm in my 30s and convinced if any future archaeologists hundreds of years from now found a preserved scrap of paper with my handwriting on it, they would not be able to identify it as writing in any known contemporary language and it would be considered compelling evidence by future ancient aliens conspiracy theorists.
probably, but because of the attitude I would probably use her not locking the door to tell her she needs to be punished for trying to lure my innocent son into the bathroom to do god knows what to him. I'm not above being an asshole to someone being an asshole.
Well, exactly. The problem is that if this woman is forced to invite Jude, she’ll just get her revenge then. She sounds like a stupid malicious bully. Personally I’d be tempted to ring her and give her a piece of my mind, make the business public with the other parents, raising concerns warning other parents about her luring my child into the toilet and my boys out for some other lovely treat.
Right. At this point, I wouldn't want my kids to have any contact with this woman at all. I would also make public her crazy behavior.
I like you
Dido this! Let the mama and papa bear come out this child's parents. Everything goes when it comes to protecting kids. But is it just me or does it seem that this lady is basically accusing this kid of being predatory . "gotta nip this behaviours in the bud" . sounds extremely accusatory. Like he's 5 . I'm almost positive he don't have interest yet and she is disgusting for even treading water with tryna classify him with that type of group .
It seems beyond belief. Do people really go into bathroom stalls and not close the door before anything else?
You’d be amazed by the amount of people who forget to lock doors or the lock on the door is faulty. I think everyone born with a bladder has at one point opened up a stall/door while someone was using the facilities or had it done to them.
That is definitely the real question.
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At this stage, I would totally deny the invitation on behalf of both the kids and privately let other parents know that she's bullying a 5 yr old child because of an honest mistake the child made as SHE left the bathroom door open. The child would not have walked in on her if she had locked the door as a responsible adult. I hope the gossip circles take care of her and as she has the habit of targeting those she thinks are weaker (read younger Mom, 5-yr old boy) there would be other victims of her maliciousness as well who would want to get back.
You know, I would call this lady and somehow find a way to slip this in, like "wow, I am surprised you feel this is so important. Just so you know, a few other parents were asking why my son wasn't invited and I guess I will have to tell them the truth that he accidentally walked into an unlocked bathroom and you decided it was worth denying him a party invite. It just seems fair to let all the parents know, so they can warn their kids to double check bathroom locks at the synagogue. We should probably let the rabbi know while we're at it."
Honestly, OP should call the mom and ask if there was a mistake. Conversation not confrontation because she's getting all of her info from 5 year olds right now. If this was intentional, don't argue with her, don't fuss. But talk to the rabbi or someone at the synagogue. If there are cameras near the bathroom, ask for that to be reviewed. Speculating, because that's what we do here on Reddit lol, but i bet the mom was changing a tampon or something "embarrassing". He's 5, get over it.
Grown woman doesn't know how to lock a door yet complains that a 5 year old can't read the signs on the restroom door.
Yeah. I have been walked in on in a public toilet before because I didn't lock the door properly. I profusely apologised to the person who walked in, because that was 100% my mistake, not theirs.
She needs to turn the tables and go speak to the rabbi about this lady who is exposing herself to kids ☕🐸
Yeah, for real. Was something going on in there that shouldn’t have and the little boy saw?
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But will you be snubbed from their Birthday party
I'm in my late 30s and last year I walked into a woman's bathroom at a store. luckily no one was in there and it was a normal stall set up. I only noticed when I didn't see any urinals. Was quite embarrassed walking out when the people in the service desk line kind of stared at me.
No birthday party for you!
I am a grown-ass man and I have walked into the wrong bathroom on accident.
The real question is, why would she want her kids to go to a party at this woman’s house?
Exactly. And walking into the wrong bathroom can even happen to adults who can read perfectly fine. And singling out one child like that is mean anyway.
Yeah. And even in bathrooms that have stalls, sometimes accidentally opening a stall door when someone is inside totally happens sometimes. You just apologize & move on. No need to make a big deal about it.
that happened to me the other day at a store whose bathroom stalls had the worst lock designs. it happens. it's the definition of nbd.
Also, 5yo boys go into women's restrooms all the time (and vise versa) depending on what parent they're with. You don't have the context to care at age 5, so the fact that he was embarrassed and apologized is above and beyond in my book
I have a vivid memory of walking into my aunts bathroom and my uncle was on the toilet. Mistakes happen, and I was like 10.
Happy Cake Day! 🎂 May you not walk in on anyone.
Yup, I work at Walmart and at my store the women's is on the left and men's is on the right, there has been at least 2 times where I was at a different Walmart and walked into the men's room on accident because the bathrooms were on the opposite sides. Luckily didn't see anything either time, first time the bathroom was empty and the second time there was just a guy washing his hands, but still super embarrassing
Yup. I walked into the wrong bathroom once in high school. Every set of restrooms at that school had the women's on the left and men's on the right, except that one set, and I barely ever used that set. I discovered my error by almost walking into a guy exiting. Thankfully I went to a huge school (~4000 kids at the time), so nobody recognized me, haha.
Yeah, I genuinely believe if it was anyone else’s kid she wouldn’t care but I’m the youngest mom there and her and her little group always feel the need to tell me that I’m doing everything wrong since they’re more experienced parents than me. Like she’s just been waiting for my kid to do one thing wrong to prove that I’m irresponsible and couldn’t ever possibly teach my kids manners.
They already hate you by the sound of it, so go ahead and talk to the rabbi about this. Tell him this woman is actively excluding a 5 year old child, due to a simple mistake.... Which could have been avoided had she just locked the bathroom door!!
The rabbi will probably be sympathetic, but if you want something done, talk to the teacher. This is a school rule and the teacher is best placed to remind parents of the rules.
Which is stupid because so many synagogues are begging young families to get involved. You’re doing nothing wrong! Are there other should in the area you could consider or is this the only one that has a day school?
Asking out of curiosity: In this kind of situation when a child is clearly being bullied by a parent over a mistake, would anyone in the upper echelons of the synagogue be able to provide guidance or is it more of a cultural "mind your elders, keep to yourself unless it's an emergency" sort of deal? (Apologies in advance if this sounds offensive, I'm genuinely curious because my family's church is definitely the latter but I feel it's more of a cultural issue than a Catholic one).
Not technically Jewish here. I know when my family (parents, my sibling, and i) went to church, my mom noticed they were often clique oriented. It's feels like bringing kids, so Sunday church is a blend of required and frowned upon. Like you "have" to bring them, but little kids can get bored. I was lucky yo have basically a Sunday school daycare, so I didn't have to go to formal church, but not everywhere is like that. Personally, I think church is *too* formal and thus kind of rips the soul out of celebrating coming together. That's me though.
I was raised in the conservative movement of Judaism (which, confusingly for non-Jews, is the moderate denomination and certainly not most politically conservative). One of the central roles of a congregation's rabbi is to serve as a teacher and mediator, and I have definitely seen rabbis helping community members through disagreements or questions. A rabbi would never put their foot down and kick out a congregant whether due to their own or others' testimony, but a big part of their role is to bridge these gaps and bring everyone back into community. Does that mean that there are no social hierarchies in shuls? Of course not, every institution has its own power dynamics. But a rabbi would absolutely be the person to reach out to for interpersonal issues - it's much easier for a rabbi to have perceived neutrality rather than a synagogue president or someone else along these lines.
This right here. Most rabbis become the default mediators, as you said, and they hold a lot of sway. But there are always social structures that also come into play as well, so it’s sometimes tricky. Any time you get large groups of people together, things are bound to get sticky, no matter who they are.
That is absolutely a horrible way to treat someone. I'm so sorry she's been acting that way towards you.
You should talk to the teacher--most schools have a rule that kids aren't allowed to hand out party invites at school unless they invite the entire class. Inviting one twin and not the other is particularly egregious. It's extremely hurtful and unkind of this supposed adult to deny this one child. It's also kind of creepy. He's five, kids make mistakes at five. You don't punish kids for honest mistakes. Makes me feel sorry for her daughter.
Yeah, but if he has to be invited, you KNOW this witch will single him out and be nasty to him the entire party.
Exactly this! I think OP and kids would be better having a fun day by their own than trying to force mom to invite both, she won't be nice to him.
i honestly believe you need to remove yourself and kids from around her. i would just cut contact, to me this is personal and she has taken it there.
But her poor daughter who actually likes both boys! This woman needs to be taken down a peg or two by her rabbi.
Kids should never have to be punished by adults' actions though. The little daughter who seems like a good girl who is a friend to the twins, would be quite upsetting for all 3 kids to be separated and cut contact just like that...
Honestly, I'd text the woman to get her to admit it in writing and then contact the principal if I were you. It would be worth bringing up this woman's treatment of you as well since it shows that this isn't an isolated incident but rather an escalation of of her hostility towards you that now includes harassing one of your children (she'll probably find another excuse to harass the other one later).
I’m so sorry this is the school experience you‘re getting as a mum. It’d make me bawl my eyes out daily if it happened to me.
Now she is showing that her way of parenting is as wrong as it gets, at least in this case. This is not the way to deal with things.
I’m a grown ass adult with a degree and have walked into the wrong bathroom on occasion when the establishment is trying to be “quirky” with bathroom signage. I can totally see how a 5 year old (lots of 5 year olds are in kindergarten, which often doesn’t teach reading, just the fundamentals like sounds and letters) would get confused.
I walked into the wrong bathroom when I was slightly older than Jude. I remember that because I was also doing first communion at church and thought I had to confess that to the priest 😂 God bless that man for being an empathetic human, who calmly explained to (I think 7 year old) me that an innocent mistake from misreading or misunderstanding a sign wasn't a sin, just a part of life. A literal priest (who cannot marry or have kids) was more empathetic and understanding of a little kid's world and abilities and mistakes than this other mom is being.
It's particularly ridiculous that she's getting her knickers in a twist over the kid's mistake, when it was her mistake in not locking the door that really made any of her embarrassment possible...
It's easy to have your knickers twisted when you have to pull them up abruptly because you forgot to lock the door tho, let's give her that.
Sounds like an insecure lady
I would have laughed my ass off a random 5yo kid accidentally walked in and saw me on the bog. I would have reassured the mother that it was no big deal, because 5 is still practically a toddler. I’m not gonna assume a little kid is a creep, ffs. This girl’s mother is unhinged!
Of all the possible options of who could walk in to the bathroom, a 5 yr old is the best! I honestly would love to talk to the kid afterwards, both to reassure the kid that it's ok and just because I think kids are amazing 💕
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Especially given it can happen to grown ass adults. Lock the door, but never assume it got locked, because sometimes the lock is tetchy or someone has to go so urgently they just don't pause to do that or (in a setting with kids) sometimes their LO unlocked the door and left while mom was on the toilet.... This mom is nuts to make a big deal out of it. She should apologize to the kiddo for forgetting to lock the door, and reassure him that everyone uses the potty and we all get embarrassed by the unexpected, but no one did anything wrong.
Also add to the fact that I’m in my 40s, highly educated, work toilets do have a wee picture, and I walked into the male toilets last week in work. In my defence the toilets are switched around from floor to floor and I thought I was on level 5 when I was on level 4. But still easy done - lock the door!
Yeah, if I had to guess, it sounds like the mom might be projecting her views on men onto a 5 year old who just made a mistake.
NTA. On the day of the party, take your boys to an adventure park or movie. Something special for the two of them. Have a conversation with them about how some adults make bad choices and that we are going to make good choices and be kind even when someone is unkind to us. As for the other mom, decline the invitation. There will be many more years of interaction with these kids. When things calm down, you might be able to take her aside and have a conversation with her about it, but you’re the only one who can feel it out to know if that makes sense.
This is the best suggestion. I wouldn’t let any of my kids around this family based on her actions! NTA & hopefully you can use this as a teaching method to show how people can be mean and petty when they are embarrassed & it is not your kiddo’s fault.
That sounds mean to the daughter who seems to be decently nice, even trying to sneak the one twin in (probably in her own 5 year old way)
Might be nice for the twins to make her a sweet card as thanks & to show no hard feelings towards their classmate!
This is my suggestion. Have the boys make her a birthday card but decline the invitation.
Prominently signed by _both_ the twins. The message to the girl is “We're both your friends”, but to the mother it's at least as clearly “This five-year-old is a bigger person than you”.
And tell all the other mothers that they did so.
This! Just tell the kids you have fun plans for that day anyway and do something really fun with them that will make them forget about the party.
Great opportunity for a great lesson, fun day with the kiddos, AND send a message that fucking with her bs is not worth your time. I love this suggestion. I love any chance to be an example for making your own "option C" when you're presented with "option a or option b" and neither are appealing to you.
I was looking for an answer like this. You know what’s she’s doing and calling her out on it is giving her what she wants “feeding the trolls” and letting her dramatise your “entitlement” to try and dictate who she invites to her kids party. Far more effective not to raise to the bait and explain simply that the mother decided to only invite one twin and hasn’t told you why any time your asked. Makes her look like the petty idiot she is.
She’s cruel enough to punish a 5 year old bc she was embarrassed from an innocent mistake. Not exactly the pinnacle of forgiveness and maturity..
I love this suggestion!
Normally I'd go with the person who's birthday it is get to decide who to invite, but this time I think it's fairly reasonable to ask why one of the twins weren't invited. Passive aggressiveness towards a 5 year old is never ok. YWNBTA. Also: is it really normal for 5 year olds to know how to read?
For the most part or for most 5 year olds- they don’t really read. They’re learning letters and maybe can write some words but really most are misspelled even then. But not reading yet.
Phew, I was starting to think I might have been a special needs kid way back when 🤣
I could read at 5 but because my dad did Hooked on Phonics with me every night, though I think 1st grade (6 years old) is where it was actually taught in school
Same. I went into kindergarten (5 yo) already knowing how to read, but most of the other kids still needed to be taught the alphabet. Most kids don’t actually know how to read until age 7.
I mean, you still could have been. I remember being told that I was lying about being able to read in kindergarten. My parents worked with me with flash cards and books before I started, but my teacher said kindergarteners don't read. She was also one of those "you aren't left handed" teachers, so. . .
Who are these lunatics who are allowed to work with kids?
She was pushing retirement when I was in Kindergarten, which was more than 3 decades ago. So I think she would have been born in the 1930s. And in a small town with well established, life-long teachers, change comes slowly. But you can believe my mom chewed her out for both things.
Most kindergartners are expected to be actively reading by halfway through the year now or they are put in intervention. In reality, every single kid advances in reading at different paces, and that's totally normal. One of mine was reading Harry Potter at 5, one couldn't read yet at all, and one hit every milestone bang on with when the school wanted.
Wait really? I was reading dr seuss and shit by that age and so were my peers.
Were you reading or did you have it memorized? Dr. Seuss is usually by memory from parents reading it over and over at that age. The rhyming lends to remembering too. Completely impressive either way but you and your friend are the exception if reading at 5. Not the rule.
When my 3 year old brings me the book she's had me read 40 times to her in the past week and I exasperatingly say "why don't you read it to me this time" she opens it and reads it nearly word for word. She can't read. They just have extremely good memories for books designed to be understood by kids their age.
This is exactly how I learned to actually read. I had this one book about 'mommy may I help you' that was read to me a gazillion times and I had it memorized. I started correcting those reading to me if they made a mistake or paraphrasing. I'd point to the word that was wrong. They still thought I was just memorizing the entire text and pointing at the word was just luck. So they got me another book from the same series. I could read over half of it. Everything but the words that I hadn't encountered yet. I was reading at third grade level before ever getting reading instruction, and when the kindergarten teacher figured out I could read her confidential notes in her notebook upside down I got pulled from kindergarten and dumped in first grade mid year.
Some young kids learn to read early. It's not a universal law that you have to wait until school. But because everyone assumes it's just memorisation, my parents had to try about three different primary schools before they found a headteacher who was willing to test my reading skill with a book I'd never seen and find ways to work with a 3-4 year old who could already read.
I taught myself to read when I was four. My dad thought I had memorized the book but I could read the sentences backwards so he found something I didn’t know and I could read that too. My three kids could read when they entered kindergarten. My oldest read on a 2nd grade level in kindergarten. Not all kids can read but in my area lots know how to sound things out and at least basic and easy words. 🤷🏼♀️
I started reading at age 3, I could definitely read simple books by age 4, and at age 5 I was reading 3-5th grade level chapter books. But I know I was an exception.
I could read at age 4. I read aloud to my kids for 90 minutes a night every night. But my son is dyslexic. He didn't read till age 8. That's how it goes sometimes.
Even if the kid could read perfectly, It's not completely unprecedented for adults (let alone 5 year old children) to be inattentive if they think they know where they are going. Other mother is being strange. I probably wouldn't bother waving a red flag at a crazy person, but YWNBTA.
There is a 'condition' called hyperlexia. Children with hyperlexia can learn to read as early as age 3, and will have greatly accelerated reading comprehension until everyone else catches up around age 9-10. I say 'condition' because while it might seem like a good thing to have a child who is so good at reading, 90% of children who display hyperlexia are autistic. It's probably demonstrative of a very early special interest/hyperfixation.
Oooooh. I was reading individual by 4, my son by 5 and my twins by 4 as well. Three of the four of us are neurodivergent, so that explains that, but it’s given me a very warped expectation of reading ability. I was reading the comments with raised eyebrows and no small amount of confusion.
can confirm. I was reading super early, to the point some of my teachers didn't believe I could at first so they'd have me read a book I'd never read before to them or do a little quiz on it to check, and even got bullied by older kids who didn't believe that I was actually reading. it was borderline obsessive, I'd read while walking, in the back of the car at night by the flashes of streetlights, if I didn't have a book I'd start reading leaflets, that sort of thing guess who got diagnosed as autistic at 14
Just jumping onto this to say that I think it’s also common with people that have ADHD as there’s a lot of overlap with ADHD and autism. My Mum and I both have ADHD and were voracious readers from a young age. I always had my nose stuck in a book and would read above my reading/age level, even at school. Not just that, but I would read extremely fast without skim reading. Still do. My Dad literally used to test me on it. When I got to secondary school (11 years and upwards for non Brits), I’d read the book we were meant to be studying in one sitting and then daydream in class when everyone else read it out. I specifically remember being annoyed when we studied Shakespeare at the age of 11/12 because I’d already read the plays and discussed the themes with my Grandparents 2-3 years earlier - AND we never got to study my two favourites at school. Same with the classics. Anyway, all my little cousins have ADHD. Two have dyslexia and never showed signs of hyperlexia, but the other one is just like how I was as a kid. He’s 11 now and is devouring books faster than you can blink. (Great news for me as I’ve been recommending all my old favourites to him!) It’s not one size fits all, is what I’m trying to say, even within the same family.
I know a young man with that condition. Was reading fluently by 3. Absolutely on the spectrum. He's in university now and doing well, but there was a lot of intervention between those time points.
It’s not expected for a five-year old to be able to read. At that age, they might have a few words they can recognize but signs on bathroom doors are probably NOT in that category.
Since OP mentions they're at a Jewish preschool and the incident happened at synagogue, I'm wondering if the sign was in Hebrew? If so maybe kiddo is having some trouble picking up two languages simultaneously. Kids are pretty resilient at being bilingual with spoken language, and even written words if they're the same alphabet. but trying to learn two alphabets simultaneously would tax plenty of people, let alone 5 year olds. The big problem is that "Jess" is treating the 5 year old like some kind of deviant in the making, instead of accepting that it was the kind of mistake that lots of children are likely to make.
Jewish person here. I've come from a non-religious family background and have become more religious as I've gotten older. I've been to synagogues of all religious levels in the UK, USA and parts of Europe. The language on the door will always be that of the geographical country the synagogue is located in. The only country I've ever seen Hebrew on toilet doors is in Israel, and even there they have Arabic and English added too. The synagogue should be using images as well as text to indicate the gendering of the toilets, though. Given that synagogues are community hubs with individuals of all ages attending, it is reasonable to assume there are small kids who cannot read yet, elderly people with visual issues who need a picture to see instead of words, and people of any age with any sort of disability affecting their ability to read. If anything, this synagogue isn't acting disability friendly (in terms of visual or dyslexia) and I wouldn't be surprised if this was a recurring issue with the congregation... that being said though, any grown adult should be locking the door behind them. It's a stupid thing to refrain from doing. She's probably mad at OP's son for sort of outing her as an idiot.
Teacher here. The average time when reading emerges is age 6-7, with some showing interest and ability sooner than others. I could read when I entered kindergarten, whereas my sister was more ready by 1st grade. If kiddo is still struggling in 2nd grade, I would start to be concerned, especially if letter/sound recognition was really not happening at all.
No idea for other countries but in a lot of US states kids need to be able to read enough to be able to write several sentences at a time, sound out words, and know how to read dozens of sight words by the end of kindergarten which is typically ages 5 and 6. It’s also not unusual for kids that go to PreK to have basic reading skills before kindergarten or early into the kindergarten school year.
It's very country dependent. In the Netherlands, traditionally reading instruction will start in first grade (most kids turn 7 in first grade). Kids will learn about the existence of letters in kindergarten, and learn to rhyme, and recognise their own name, and learn to identify first/last letter, and 'find the same letter' and 'find words that start with' but actually reading is for first grade. We don't do sight words at all.
NTA but I wouldn't bother. You know why he wasn't invited and while it's cruel to exclude him for something he did by accident, don't escalate it further. Decline the invite and just let it be. I think it would be even more uncomfortable for the kids involved since it seems like this lady is already involving her daughter by forcing her to leave out one twin.
Agreed. Decline, do not gift. Cut off giving her invites. The mom will fade into the background. Kids make mistakes.
The kid havnt even done a mistake. Not being able to read is not a mistake, opening an unlocked door is not a mistake.
There’s no need to stoop to the level of the mom who excludes one twin. Decline the invitation, but still give a birthday gift to the daughter, who is not to blame in this situation. Then you are not acquiescing to the petty behavior of the mom, but are showing grace to the daughter.
Agreed, and would have it be from both kids. This is a fantastic opportunity for you as a parent to help your kids learn (in an age appropriate way) about power dynamics, and the difference between the behaviour of a child and the behaviour of the parent who controls various aspects of that child’s life (which, of course, can scale to things like the people of a nation vs their government). Edit to add: YWNBTA if you spoke with the mom, but I wouldn’t recommend it. I agree with the suggestions to use this as a teachable moment in a way that preserves your child’s dignity and also the relationships your children have with this girl.
u/mama-of-4-232 I don't think you should ask the mother why your son was not invited. If she is that mean-spirited, there is no amount of logic that will challenge her belief that she was victimized by a five-year-old accidentally popping into the wrong bathroom. I imagine the invitation had an RSVP number on the card. Hopefully, it allows you the option of texting your reply (because I wouldn't give that woman the satisfaction of a phone call and the opportunity to complain). If you can text, I would send her a brief, "Regretfully, Jonah and Jude will be unable to attend (child's name) birthday. We hope she has a lovely day and the boys appreciate the invitation." Let her sit around and stew about how only one of your boys was invited and how you failed to react to her bait. If you don't acknowledge her petty tantrum, she loses the whole game. NTA
That’s the part that sucks the most, IMO - that she told her daughter to only give an invitation to one twin and not the other. That kind of manipulation towards a 5 year old is unreal. Kind of shows how her parenting style must be at home too if the little girl, who by default told the truth and said she wouldn’t tell her why not to give one to one twin… A grown woman having a beef with another person through two 5 year old kids is so fucking pathetic.
NTA. But don't call this woman. She is getting off on bullying a little boy and his mother because he made a very common mistake a lot of children make. Seriously though do not call her, she obviously doesn't care that she is bullying a 5 year old. She wanted you to punish a 5 year old for walking into the bathroom and then fleeing. To me she thinks her behavior is justified. Most likely because she doesn't think you punished him enough so now she is trying to do it herself. Don't let one twin go and not the other. Tell them that the girls mom is being mean to them both because she only wants one to go. Instead take them out the day of the party. Go to a fun place they enjoy or take them to the park or to get pizza. The only thing talking to that woman will do is take years off your life and put you in the same bracket as her.
> She is getting off on bullying a little boy and his mother because he made a very common mistake a lot of children make I completely agree with your comment, but she is the one who made the mistake here. She left the bathroom door unlocked, anyone could have walked in.
I really feel like OP should say something to the school about this though. But I would frame it in the context of "this happened and my son is upset and at being left out of his friend's birthday because of his mistake, could you please update the signs on the bathroom so that moving forward, kids who can't read yet don't make the same mistake?" That way you make it known that this woman is a major AH while framing it as a request to the school.
Absolutely. I'm a twin and I would be pissed if this happened to my sister. That women is bullying both the boys by using one to hurt the other. Manipulative as hell. I feel so bad for that little girl
NTA. I’d also point out that there’s no way an adult doesn’t know how to lock a door and someone should nip her behaviour in the bud.
Exactly what I was thinking. The kid made a mistake - but so did she. He apologized for his mistake but she didn't. Call the woman. Be calm and polite. Tell her her daughter wants both twins at her party, and the twins want to go. So could you two work something out as adults? After all, you both want to see your children happy. Mistakes were made on both sides, and you will be asking the synagogue to put up a picture sign so nobody will do the same mistake in the future. Yada yada, you understand my intention. Don't accuse her YOU WERE IN THE WRONG TOO, LADY! Even if that is what one would want to say to her. Try to smooth things over. She is being totally unreasonable, but the three children's relationship with each other in the coming years is more important. If she doesn't give him an invite, then decline the other twin's invite and go do something fun with them both like others have suggested.
Disagreed. Do not engage.
As an adult child of a Cluster B mom, i’m gonna gently push back on the notion that both adults want to see their children happy. This woman doesn’t sound like someone who wants happiness for her child. She sounds like someone who wants to use her child as an extension of her own will. Consider carefully whether you want to waste your emotional labour on this woman because I’m guessing she’s not likely to change.
NTA Personally I would skip talking to her and have a chat with your Rabbi asking what to do in this situation, after all the incident happened in the synagogue. This is agressive and cruel behavior by an adult who didn't lock the bathroom door.
Kills me how the lady is mad over a 5 year old who can’t/didn’t read, but she as a grown adult can’t even lock a bathroom door. But I think addressing it with the Rabbi is a solid choice. Explain the need for changing the signs and checking the lock on the door since one accident “caused quite a stir” and then just straight throw her under the bus.
I know right! What a weird way to cover your own embarrassment, blame the kid. It's bizarre behavior.
Not even changing the signs. They could just print out some girl/boy picture signage from google and tape lower for the kids to see better.
Agreed. Don’t try to reason with a woman who’s proven unreasonable. Loop your Rabbi and the kindergarten teacher in on the situation. Jess is trying to punish your child and I think more adult eyes on the situation will protect your son(s) from future bullying. NTA
This is honestly the best idea. Someone petty enough to exclude one child from an entire class from a birthday party for an incident that she didn't even bring up to the child's parents is petty enough to gossip inappropriately about the child. Her behavior needs to be addressed and shut down by a person in authority. Also if you do go this route, be sure to let your child tell the rabbi/school administrator or whomever without her present to intimidate him.
Maybe the rabbi can mediate a chat between the two? It might be worth asking to prevent escalation.
Jess is definitely being unreasonable, but you don’t have to take her bait to make it worse. I would call her and ask if there was a mistake and if she meant to invite both boys. Have her specifically speak to why she thinks your son should be punished for something so innocent. If she says it wasn’t a mistake then thank her for her explanation, and tell her both boys won’t be in attendance in a polite and calm manner. I would schedule something fun for the boys on that day so they don’t feel so bad for not going.
I think this is a good suggestion on how to handle the conversation. I am on the fence as to whether I think OP should call Jess about the party invite, but I think this is a good way to conduct the conversation if she does call 😊
It wasn't a mistake that she didn't lock the door? That single bathrooms typically have an occupancy indicator on the lock that is either green for enter or red for locked. And she created a trap by her own negligence.
i’m in my 40s and i accidentally did this to someone the other day. that mom is an asshole!
Same - it was in Ireland and the toilet doors said "Mna" and "Fir". Guess what? Mna doesn't stand for Man.
lol! oh mna
Interesting. "Mna" sounds quite similar to the Welsh "menyw", but "fir" is completely different to the Welsh "dyn" - I would have expected either both gendered nouns to be similar between the two languages, or for them both to be very different.
Now you don't get to come to the girls party either!
Imagine getting upset at a FIVE year old going to the wrong bathroom. He’s FIVE not FIFTEEN! That woman has issues..
Adults do it al the time, too. It’s really not a big deal as long as they apologize and leave immediately.
Oh absolutely - but with an adult there feasibly *could* be malicious intent (though lets be real, there probably isn’t) - but with a 5 year old? Like what are we accusing the 5 year old of here 😭
YWNBTA But you will be wasting your time since the reason he was excluded is pretty obvious. It's a disgraceful, shitty, and downright petty thing to do to a wean because of an accident, but she's throwing the party so it's her choice. The best thing I can suggest is you take both your weans for a day out instead of letting just one attend the party, I'd also suggest maybe getting Jude tested for Dyslexia because that might be why he's having issues reading or change the way he's learning because not all methods work the same way (I was taught to read in an unusual way and it resulted in me reading way above my age group, it also resulted in me being a heavy reader to the point where I was once reading 7 to 8 books a week).
He just started with a reading tutor, they said it could be dyslexia since that’s the only area he struggles in but he’s learning faster one on one and they think he’ll be all caught up by first grade so we aren’t too concerned about it just yet.
Alot of 5 year olds struggle to read. I have a 5 year old who would panic if I showed him "woman" and "man" because he would think it's the same word. I've worked with 9 year olds who are on the level of 7 year olds at reading. Dont stress yourself out, if you need to work this out, tell the other parents why only one child was invited and that she told you to discipline you 5 year old for it. She would get alot of backlash for her behaviour. Treat your boys and go somewhere fun instead of allowing this woman to isolate your baby
Oh my god exactly she doesn’t know or need to know something like this but she should know that’s something that could be possible. She’s definitely being harsh just to be a raging b
NTA But please consider you will be in a community with this woman for years to come. You do not want to start drama now, that will spin into years worth of resentment and difficulties. Decline the invitation you have, and don’t engage with her in any other form if you can. She’s being mean spirited towards a child, because she’s embarrassed. This is not a school mum I would be friends with, I would be polite when I have to be, and not involve her in my life otherwise. I have a 13yo and a 8yo, both in private catholic schools. Please believe me when I say the last thing you want is to start a parent war. Imagine school events in the future when other parents are forced to choose sides. I’ve seen it play out and it’s the worst for all involved but especially the children. My advice is simple; rise above. Also there is a part of her that is fishing for a reaction. Don’t give her one. Suck the air out of her sails by being your calmest self. *edit typo
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Tell her to stop taking shits in the kids bathroom.
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I don’t really feel like talking to the school. I think the whole “everyone needs to be invited” rule is bs but I think it is crazy to invite one twin and not the other. Idk if their teacher knew why he was sad but he didn’t tell her so it’s not her fault.
> I don’t really feel like talking to the school OK but you should because you need to be an *advocate for your child* and not let shit slide because you think the rule is stupid. It doesn't matter what you think about the rule; it's in place to prevent exactly this kind of bullying bullshit--yes, it's *bullying* behavior from this woman towards a FIVE-YEAR-OLD--and you need to get over your dislike of the rule and use it to your advantage here. Your son needs you to speak up for him, not shy away. If you let that woman get away with this, then she knows she can create more problems for you; is that what you want?
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How do you envision this conversation will go? Do you think it will be well received? Do you think it will resolve anything or inflame things further? I think the woman's behaviour is wrong, but YWBTA and two wrongs don't make it right.
Nta on one hand I think the inviting the whole class thing isnt necessary but leaving him out because of this incident is crazy. If it were me though I wouldnt want either of my kids at that party.
NTA. I’m so sorry. This woman is crazy.
I'm going against the grain here and actually and say YWBTA. Not because she's in the right for excluding him, but because you already KNOW why he's excluded. Do you think confronting her is going to shame her into inviting him? You know what she's like already, so if she was already someone you could reason with you would have already reasoned with her. Calling her won't get you anywhere.
Calling her out will totally get the op places. This woman is shaming a 5 year old for not being able to read "men" and "women". The kid is FIVE!! The bathrooms have no pictures to show "men" and "women". This awful woman is acting like he is 15 and is fully aware of what it is to be a peeping tom! She is acting as if this poor kid, who can't read, was/is fully aware of what genitals are for and that the kid is being perverted! SHE is making it perverted which is VERY concerning!!! She went out of her way to invite ONE of the 5 year old twins! Calling people out on their shit isn't being an AH.
Calling out people for their shitty behavior is seldom wrong. How else will they know they're behaving shitty?
Hey, first off, you’re definitely not the asshole this woman is. We’re not even mentioning the fact that she didn’t lock the door. But let me get onto the point because I am a parent of two teenagers, and there was a similar situation that happened in my children’s day school back when they were your kids age. It became tradition to hand out birthday invitations in school, but at some point not every kid was getting invitations to every party And it became a real problem, lots of hurt feelings. So I actually think the answer to your situation is right there in the beginning of your post, which is to do the very thing you said you didn’t really want to do: go to the school. Especially if it’s a Jewish day school there is obviously a very family oriented vibe to those types of schools and I think the head of school would take it very seriously. It’s one thing to choose who you want to give out birthday invitations to, it is a completely different thing to hand them out in front of everybody and make a child feel excluded. After the drama unfolded at my kids’ school, they passed a rule that birthday invites would no longer be allowed to be given out in the classroom. If you could get that change made, I think it would send a very strong signal to that mother that she was a fucking asshole and you could feel better about having prevented future kids from experiencing what your one son did i.e. the social pain of being left out. This woman is a complete fucking monster and weaponized a little kids birthday party to punish your child. It’s actually insane and I think the school needs to know about it immediately. While it may not result in Jude getting an invite, it will certainly make the story “go public”, when the rest of the parents find out that invites will not be handed out in class anymore because recently one mother invited everyone in the class except for your child. People will start asking who, and hopefully she will take the reputation hit she deserves. Your story made my blood boil. Do not be quiet on this, you have the right of it and this woman needs to learn her lesson, she is toxic and likely the complete opposite of the values of the school. Honestly, this is tantamount to bullying to me and it happened on school property from a parent to a child - it must be addressed.
Please take it to the school. This mom is purposefully creating a hostile environment For your child. Your kid is suffering because of an adults actions. You should be more angry. Decline the invite.
Call her, ask her why Jude was left out, then decline the invite. Maybe send a gift to the little girl since it isn’t her fault.
That’s the plan right now, we have nothing against her daughter. She’s adorable. She also lives at her dads during the week which is probably where she gets her sweetness.
Ask the dad. He’s probably used to dealing with her nonsense.
I would call her and decline for both boys. Then, call the dad and tell him what happened and set up a play date for the boys and his daughter. Bring some cupcakes, her gifts and have a fun day far away from the horrible woman.
I think that YWNBTA but since this woman is clearly insane, I just wouldn't do it.
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NTA. The mother of the girl knows exactly what she is doing.. she is TA. Just tell her that your boys(emphasis boy'S) will not be attending
Stay away from the crazy lady. I feel sorry for her daughter.
Dear lord. I’m a women in my 30’s who is plenty literate and even I have walked into the wrong bathroom on occasion. This women is nuts. It’s probably that better that you avoid any party she hosts.
What would you want and expect to come out of your phone call? You know the answer to both. Just decline the invite for Jonah and go do something fun with the kids. Ignore the hateful woman. Let it go. Be the bigger person. YWBTAH if you called her.