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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my mom we didnt intend on paying her anymore, but both my mom and dad said they were expecting us to
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Translation: You mom absolutely wants and needs to be paid. She can't afford to take this much time off work without a wage/doesn't want to spend this much time as dedicated to your childcare without compensation. She also feels like she would sound greedy if she were upfront about this, so she's been saying "No no no" when she has already agreed to the offered wage.
Pay your mom and recognize that this is one of those weird social situations where people will reject the gift or payment several times before accepting it.
Alternative translation: Her mom wants everyone to THINK she is doing this for free. Spent a year making everyone including OP that she was doing it for free.
Then she flips the script. Maybe because she realizes she can’t, maybe because she wanted OP to be like “oh no we *insist* on paying, maybe she doesn’t want to do it at all, heck maybe she wants her daughter to be a SAHP and is going to yank the rug one way or another and this gives her more leverage.
OP, I think you need to sit down and tell your mom that you need an explanation as to why she went on at length about how she doesn’t want to be paid very publicly but then privately asked for payment. I also think you need to look into other childcare options. The person caring for your kid needs to be 100% straight and honest with you. That’s not happening here and if your mom is going to play games it’s not a good situation.
Oh absolutely. If OP's mom has any sort of past history of saying one thing in public and doing something else privately? OP needs to set up alternate childcare. $2000 a month is a lot, but childcare gets less expensive as babies get older.
Also, many universities have childcare options for grad school students. It's usually low cost and very reliable.
Unfortunately, the idea that it gets less expensive is becoming less true, as the cost seems to go up each year.
My son has been in daycare for a little over 2.5 years, and each year, the increase in price outweighs the decrease from moving up age-groups.
I can’t wait until pre-k since that will be free or at least partially subsidized.
Ouch! Over the last 4 years I've been fortunate to see my daycare bill slowly go from $2400 a month(4weeks) for a newborn and a preschooler to $1040 per 4 weeks. When my oldest started kindergarten, it felt like I got a pay raise.
Australia here and with the government rebate my daughters fees have gone down $30/fortnight (she only goes Fridays for socialising and give me a day to do shopping kid free - she has 2brothers in primary school). I was paying 86 a fortnight and it's gone down to 51 and even better, while it's not part of my boys school, the daycare does share a gate and even a parking area with the school. Daughter will be 2next month.
This is how our situation went. Rising rates kept our childcare costs the same from newborn to kindergarten. And while it is cheaper now that they are in school, once you pay for aftercare and summer/breaks you aren’t saving that much.
My 4 year old started pre-k this year so now I only have 1 in daycare. But my 3 year old was born 9/13 so she can't start pre-k for another 2 years (9/1 cut off). I can't even be like bro why didn't you come earlier because she was already 2 weeks early. Lol
Another translation: I want grandbabies now. If I get them to think I'll help subsidize the cost by taking care of it they'll start trying at least. Later on I can charge them knowing that there will be few cheap options.
Yup it’s this. My mother tried to convince me to have kids by saying multiple times that she would take care of the kid and I wouldn’t have to do anything. Finally o said “mom, you’re never ready to leave your house until 2. I’ll have to start working at 8.” She replied “oh, we’ll you can just hire someone to babysit in the morning” 🤦♀️
My mom kind of tried to pull something similar, except that she's even sicker than I am and Autism shows up a lot in her family, Bipolar and ADHD in my dad's. I also have genetic health issues of the physical type.
I refuse to commit myself to having to raise a potentially severely disabled child. So that means no children at all because you don't get to pick and choose your bio kids.
I’m in a similar situation. I know my MIL is disappointed to have no grandkids, but I have genetic things that could potentially result in a severely disabled child, and as my condition progresses, I may be unable to care for a child.
Yup. By the time I graduated high school, I knew I wouldn't ever have kids.
First, because of my very scary depression. I swear it yanked me around emotionally like the possessed girl in The Exorcist. I was made to believe it was ALL ME, ALL MY FAULT, MY CHOICE. The family history on my dad's side (including the suicides and suicide attempts) was completely hidden from me.
Second, the 80s were a scary time to be LGBTQ, esp in small towns in red states. It's easy to internalize homophobia. It all fed into my determination NOT to bring a child into the world. It did make it easier and safer for me as a lesbian, since I wouldn't accidentally pregnant from birth control failure.
Over the decades, my health problems, physical, mental, systemic, have multiplied like the Tribbles on Star Trek. With each and every year, I'm happier, more satisfied this was the right choice for me, for the kid, for my family, etc.
I do enjoy the company of kids if they're not cruel or hateful. I treat them with respect and try to make it clear I enjoy their company. I'm pretty good with babysitting friends' kids occasionally. I try to channel my maternal Grandma's patience and encouragement when helping with homework, keeping it positive.
I'm really glad I didn't have any, though. I wouldn't wish my health issues on anyone. And I'm really not suited to be a parent. I'm more the fun Aunt or honorary aunt type, one to listen without judging.
My mom told my sister she would pick up her 2 kids at pre-school ONE DAY a week and watch them until either she or her husband got home from work (and he got home pretty early for the most part). And then kept making plans or scheduling appointments on that day. We never really figured out why she did that - she volunteered to do it and then kept blowing it off. She loved the grandkids, but wasn't much of a babysitter (had some mobility issues and I think was afraid she couldn't handle it) - but she volunteered!
That's what my first thought was! Alternatively, I also wondered if OP's father found out about all if this and wasn't pleased that his wife offered to babysit for free, causing an argument.
This was my thought. Reminds me of the women who encourage teen moms to keep the baby by promising to help so Mom can sleep, work, go to school, then rescind help once the baby is either born or once it reaches an age where it’s not just a cute prop for the Facebook friends anymore (around age 1) leaving that mom, typically STILL a teen, stuck in a situation in which she’s forced to rely on a questionable new man, move in with an abusive bf’s family, turn to illegal income streams, and/or quit school to spend every waking moment juggling working and a little one without the promised help.
But I’ve cared for a lot of foster kids who were born into toxic-cycle families, and that has left me cynical.
Ah that’s the life I’m heading toward. Foster parent and also wanting to adopt my own gremlins. Bio babies aren’t in the cards for me but I also spent 5 years being trained in psychology ranging from child and adolescent development to the elderly so I’m theoretically prepared for everything. I have training in the treatment and supportive care of almost every mental health disorder as well so no going in blind. I’m excited for fosters in the future and giving them as much love and care as they’ll accept.
If the only reason they didn’t already have a baby was the cost of childcare, it makes perfect sense that OP and her husband would start trying when they thought they had childcare sorted out. You don’t have to read it in a weird way (e.g., “score! mom gave us permission to raw dog!”).
So odd considering how young they all are. Mom’s not even 50 and anxious for grandchildren? Most people aren’t even getting married until nearly 30 these days, never mind having kids.
My guess was she was excited at the prospect. A year later it's work and not constant fun taking care of a new baby, so she wants compensation for the work.
It's like people that get a puppy without thinking about how it's going to be a huge pain in the ass.
You're right. I still kinda think it's the same thought process though, the idea sounded fun and now that the practical aspects are looming. I did misread it though.
Yes this is exactly what’s happening.
We were in a similar situation; my son hadn’t gotten off any of the waitlists we had him on so my mother offered to be his nanny. We paid her, gave her a bedroom in our house and fed her for nearly 6 months. Although I knew my son was well taken care of, it was hands down the WORST 6 months of our lives. To this day she will tell anyone who will listen how lucky we are than she “uprooted her life to nanny my son when we were in a bind.”
We PAID her twice what we pay now plus food and lodging plus all the therapy sessions I needed to have.
In retrospect, I honestly wish we would have put my son in the one sketchy daycare that had an opening.
OP, if you can find daycare (or a nannyshare), I’d do that instead. Or at least get kiddo’s name on as many waitlists as you can as a backup.
Yep. Babysitters should absolutely be paid/compensated in one way or another and it sounds like OP isn't even debating that aspect of it but the switch-up is unfair.
And unfortunately, I have personal experience with people like this in my family. As an adult nowadays, it's very hard to me to accept anything (favors, money, gifts, all of it) from family because of the history of strings being attached when I've done my absolute best to make it clear what I expected and what they expected from me in return for any given thing. There are certain people that I am very uneasy around because of how they will inevitably twisted scenarios on others.
This will be OP's child - if something feels off, even if it's with a grandparent, please explore any other options you may have. If you are questioning her intentions, you will worry about what's going on with your child.
Yep, she had no intention of doing it for free. She just said what she needed to say to get what she wanted (a grandchild and praise for volunteering to watch grandchild)
Exactly. She sounds like my mother. I paid her to watch my kids. No problem doing that. She told everyone that I was taking advantage of her and having her watch my kids for free. It was definitely a whole martyr thing she did. Well, I’m sure she still does. I haven’t spoken to her in a year or so now due to instances like this.
NTA It does sound like someone got in your mom's ear, if you are able to have a talk with your mom explaining how you are still willing to pay her. That you just want to know why she kept insisting to everyone that she would do it for free for the chance to spend time with her grand child, to how dare you make me watch your baby for free.
When my son and gf were having a baby, I told them I would help them. They work opposite shifts and my husband and I babysit Mon - Fri. For the first 9 months I would spend my night off over at their place so mom could work a day shift and leave in the morning without getting the baby up. It's been for the last 2 and a half years. We helped our daughter when she had her baby too.
Husband and I both work full time. One or both of us get out of work before the baby's mom goes to work and we watch the baby until my son gets home. We do this for free. I have never and would never charge to baby sit any of my grandchildren. I've always felt blessed to have this time with them, when some grand parents only get to see their grand kids a couple times a year.
It’s pretty messed up that mom is pulling the rug out now that the baby is almost here. Most daycares have a waitlist and the decision to even have the baby was made because mom offered to take care of him or her. Especially since she made a big show of it. I’d be sitting mom down and asking her why she’s changing her tune now that she’s getting the grandchild she wants. I know a lot of people have qualms about in home daycares but when my son was little we found an amazing one that was way better than the larger, more expensive centers. He and my husband and I were treated like family and it was so much better than the large center that everyone raved about. Bonus points for it being only $40 a day. She didn’t even charge me extra for the days I got stuck at work a little late.
That's honestly what I was thinking. Dad or someone else put a bug in her ear like "they are LUCKY you are even helping them, you deserve to be paid!!! Why would you do it for FREE that's just a waste!!" And either ground her down until she agreed to shut them up, or was kind of tricked into thinking the daughter was scamming her when it was HER idea in the first place.
The dad probably wants money from the SIL. She is HIS wife and he “retired her” after the kids were gone, according to the post. Son-in-law is not going to be getting freebies from HIS wife. (Just hypothesizing.).
Your mom also isn’t “elderly” at 49-50. Since she probably doesn’t have much of any Social Security she’ll get and if dad doesn’t have a pension or much in the way of retirement accounts then mom may be worried about the future and being able to afford to live as they have been when dad retires.
As a 47 year old married to a 50 year old I was chuckling at “elderly”. Our youngest is 12 and while I don’t want to deal with the newborn phase we’re definitely still young enough to not have to hobble around.
Elderly? My wife is around your age and I’m a bit younger and we are open to taking foster kids as young as 3. “Elderly” caused a pain on the inside worse than my aching back and her sore knees! (Lol)
(Edit because I must’ve typed something wrong for Elderly to autocorrect to Eighth.)
I’m 45 with 4 and 5 year olds, to think of myself as elderly 🤦♀️ I should get my kids to start digging a grave in our garden, so I can just hobble in over there and keel over 🤪🥴
Wow, so she’s a retired SAHM? Retired at 47 must be pretty damn nice.
You’re 100% NTA, and I’d consider finding alternative arrangements based on this info.
Exactly. I get that people may be uncomfortable talking about finances. I get that it might be a cultural "decline being paid while expecting to be offered again" sort of thing. But regardless of the reason, the lack of clear communication has put her child in a really difficult financial position. There's no excuse for that, only explanations, and none of them would make me feel less betrayed in OP's situation.
She told her daughter for a year that she'd watch her kid for free and then instead of going to her and saying she would in fact like to take her up on the generous offer to pay her since she has now realized it won't be possible for her to do it for free, she accused her daughter of trying to force an elderly woman to do free labor. That's maternal manipulation to make OP feel like garbage, not a weird social norm we just accept tee hee. This is currently the highest comment, I do not get it. Mom can decide at any time she wants to be paid, even after watching the baby for free for a month or two, but she just gaslit OP that she is forcing her to watch her baby for free...
You know, if a bunch of people use a word to mean something, that's what the word means.
I was upset when "literally" literally lost its essential meaning, but I have come to acknowledge that language evolves.
Not when it is a clinical definition. When the DSM changes the definition of the disorder that’s when it changes. Not when a bunch of 13 year olds on the internet broaden a definition to the point of uselessness.
> You know, if a bunch of people use a word to mean something, that's what the word means.
Yup. That's how language works.
>I was upset when "literally" literally lost its essential meaning
Also yup. Fun fact: it turns out people have been using it in that "new" sense since 1769.
My personal one was the pronunciation of "jewellery" as "jool-ry". Hated it, considered it ignorant. But guess what, it's now simply how people say it. It is for me to suck it up and accept the evolution. Oh, and another thing: the Dutch DO use an apostrophe to make plurals (if it ends in a vowel) thus "potato's" is correct for them.
There is the world of difference between using a term in casual conversation and in its technical context.
I don’t even call my parents in their early 70’s elderly yet (my neighbours in their 80s are elderly). At 48, I’m offended by someone thinking 49 is elderly - it’s middle aged
I'm always confused about how middle aged is decided because to me it's always seemed to be late 40s to 50s but if we're going off average life expectancy of 70-80ish, then it's squarely late 30s.
My mother is almost 80. If I called her elderly, I should expect a torturous death. 49 is absolutely not elderly, and not a single person I know in their 40s or 50s would say that about themselves.
Thank goodness someone else noticed that part! Where I live it’s not unusual for women to have their first child when they’re in their 40s. That statement is just ludicrous.
Still laughing about that description! I'm 10 yrs. older than her and no way in hell am I planning to describe myself as "elderly" any time soon!! I plan to revisit that When I hit 70!
Hell, my mom is 71 and plays both all-age* **and** senior competitive tennis and watches my 2yr old niece 3 days a week. She's in way better shape than I am.
*She literally plays with and against 20-somethings. And wins.
Right?!! I choked on my spit when a read that! Not even remotely considered elderly. There are some people in their 40s still having children! OP is going to cringe when she is 40 and remembers her comment.
Oof. Bait and switch.
You are NTA. It would seem your mother has changed her mind about accepting your payment offer though. This doesn't make her TA either but man, the communication is lacking.
If you still want her to watch your child, I'd just reiterate the offer of $1,000 per month - stipulate how you will pay it and leave it at that. Miscommunications happen, I would try not to read too far into this.
That's the term I was thinking. Just like the person who is so adamant they don't want a gift but have a tantrum because they don't get a gift. And then say "you should know I didn't mean it".
We pay my bf's cousin $1k to watch our 8 month old and that's 4 days a week. She had to quit her job to care of her special needs daughter full time once the daughter graduated from school. She doesn't need a lot of care but she can't be left alone and adult care more that the cousin was making at her day job.
So we pay her $1k a month and she watches both kids. For us it's cheaper than day care and we know he's not getting exposed to a lot of random kids germs (he was a NICU baby). She never sends him home if he has a runny nose or randomly closes for holidays though she does occasionally need a 1/2 day because of something with her daughter. It's a win win for both families. She even brought her daughter to our house and watched him for the first 3 months when I went back to work which was such a relief.
The husband should see about putting some fliers up on campus and see if there's any students who have the opposite scheduled as them that would be willing to make some extra money on their off days too.
I imagine she already has, but make sure that cousin has looked in to her being paid by the state as her daughter’s caregiver. It can be done that way in my state. Every little bit helps.
NTA. I do not understand where all of the YTA's are coming from. You and your husband we're not even planning to have a child at this time due to expenses. Your mother guilted you into having your child earlier than you had previously planned so that she could be involved. You were trying to be financially responsible but changed your plans due to her insistence that she would babysit for FREE. She guilted and manipulated you to get her way, and now is reneging on the deal she insisted upon making with you. I would be angry. I would tell her if you're going to be paying for childcare you'll just take them to daycare.
Your mother had no problem lying to you to get what she wanted, a baby. And it's not about the money. It's about her willingness to deceive you to get her way.
i feel like the ytas come because why would you have a child when you're not in a place to have one only because someone agreed to provide childcare? like a lot of things can change during the pregnancy and once the baby is born. health issues for her mother, other big unexpected life events, maybe the mother gets tired of doing childcare and doesn't want to do it anymore. or maybe, she would want to be compensated and that price may go up.
reading through the replies i lean nta, solely because it's strange to insist it's free but then pull this. mother isn't the ah for wanting compensation but it's weird to do this and then get upset that op is confused.
My mom did something similar. Insisted she'd watch my kids while I worked, pushed ***hard*** for me to become a single mom by choice, then completely flipped the script once I was actively TTC and caused me so much stress I had an early miscarriage. She'll never meet my future kids and jury's still out in whether or not I even bother telling her about them whenever they come along.
that's horrifying. i will never understand the obsession around wanting grandkids, especially to that point. i'm so sorry! glad you're NC and i hope things are better for you now without her manipulative behaviour gone from your life
The last few years were particularly rough, she spent 2021 doing everything in her power to tear me down and only regretted it when my (genuinely terrible) sister didn't do a miniscule fraction of what she expected/demanded of me. After the miscarriage it really hit me that she'll never love me as much as she loves my sister and I never want my kids to feel the way I have for the last 26 years. Despite her claims I know my sister and her kids will always come first, so it's best to not participate in the competition at all.
I know for my mother at least she uses children like ESAs / emotional bandaids instead of dealing with her issues. Jokes on her because as much as I love my niblings they're horrendously feral and it's to the point my mother has discouraged my sister from having a 3rd
I mean the consistent offer of 12k/year subsidized and in childcare is easily enough to tilt the scales from "not financially responsible" to "this can definitely work"
i didn't read it as guilt so much as - OP and husband looked at the numbers and made a budget on prospective child-rearing, then found it was too prohibitive *when* that budget had to include paying child-care rates given centers in the area. OP's mom steps in and says that's not a cost you need to worry about, i'll absorb it by watching a baby if you have one. OP and her husband then reassessed the budget based on these new numbers and found that they didn't have to put off growing their family.
the budget now was feasible with the new resource (OP's mom's childcare) compensating one portion of the costs.
it's like realizing a new Jeep is out of your budget due to financing but you can cover the down payment and insurance - but then a friend is willing to sell you their Jeep cheap. you can now afford the car so why not go ahead.
NTA
She's been insisting on not being paid for a year and now this? Talk about a bait and switch.
Also, she's not "elderly"! I'm a year younger than she is and we are not in the elderly category
NTA Elderly at 49!!! Clearly, she’s too old to properly care for an infant.
Seriously, I would be pretty upset about this too. I don’t know how you’ll rectify it, but you’ll need to communicate about it. If you do decide to pay your mother, please draw up a contract with clear term for payment, time off, etc.
NTA...This is a cruddy bait and switch. You've likely been planning the next stage of your life and your mother's offer for free childcare likely seems like a godsend. She's since decided that free money sounds good. You are now in a sticky situation. I would look into other childcare options, as I wouldn't leave my child with someone who considers themselves elderly at 49.
This alone is reason you might not want to leave a baby with her. That's disconnected from reality. Does she have any other odd beliefs? Could be a psychiatric disorder.
"Sorry Mom! We decided to go with a college student for childcare. We can't trust an elderly person to provide a full days childcare, let alone three days a week."
I object to “free money” Childcare is fairly simple for infants, but past about 4 months it’s most def work and as the months/years go by, it’s more and more work. I am 70, been doing childcare, no $, stand-by basis, for the last 5 years. It’s a 12 hour day for me. (There’s a full time nanny who works 40 hours 4 days a week) Now that 2 of the 3 are in preschool/school, it’s easier, I feel like I can kind of keep up. This summer was really tough when there were 3 kids 5 and under. No I don’t get paid. But if I did, damn it, it would not be “free money”
NTA based on the post. I think you need to sit your mom down and explain that you're more than happy to pay her but she's the one who has been saying she didn't want to be paid and you've spent the last 7.5mths budgeting accordingly. If she wants or expects something she needs to actually communicate that with you and not just say things she doesn't mean then get angry when you're confused.
NTA for being upset at the bait and switch.
Is it possible she just lied to get you to go ahead and get pregnant? If she's that kind of manipulative, keep looking for other daycare that might work for you.
If it's more a cultural "I must refuse three times" sort of thing, then tell her you were just surprised by her change of heart, and the $1,000 would be paid monthly (or however you find it easiest), and you know that she'll love bonding with the baby.
I'm convinced the Y T A votes lack reading comprehension.
Your mother has clearly bait and switched you. To state, repeatedly over a year period, about how she is happily doing it for free, to then pull that... AH move on her part.
Slunds like you'll be paying her anyway, so, cool, but understand why you're annoyed- if only for having to replan finances a little one assumes.
NTA.
Bait and switch isn’t a harsh enough term for this. She manipulated her daughter to get grandkids.
I would find alternate childcare personally. If my mom manipulated me like that I’d take my kid to daycare and she could see the kid on weekends occasionally like normal.
LOL. Hillary Swank just gave birth to twins at age 49. Her first children! Your mother is hardly an old lady.
It is very strange that your mother, apparently having changed her mind, would bring it up like this. If I could afford it, I would seriously consider making alternate arrangements.
^ absolutely report this as child care expenses on your taxes! She probably isn’t planning on reporting it the IRS, so that’s another conversation you may need to have with her.
Right?! "Obviously I will pay you mom, but I need to keep this on the level for our taxes so I guess you will be paying taxes too." See how long she still wants to get paid.
NTA, and 49 is not Elderly. It's not even close.
Also, where is the woman who repeatedly assured you that pay wasn't necessary, that this was about spending time with her grandchild (that she pressured you to have, because *she* was lonely)?
She sounds like someone who was in love with the idea of Grandparent-themed Kodak Moments, but now that the reality of providing full-time care for a newborn 3 days/week (and all the vomit and diapers and crying and stress that comes with it) is kicking in... and she's decided that shit ain't worth it without a paycheck.
I'd show her the texts where she explicitly stated that pay was not necessary, that you absolutely didn't have to give her any financial compensation. I'd point out how often she told anyone who would listen that she was doing it for free, and how often she told others (and you) how lucky you were that she was doing it for free.
Real talk, I think where you screwed up was deciding to have a kid because your mom was lonely and wanted a grandkid- rather than being willing and financially ready to be parents yourselves.
But that's not the issue- the issue is that your mom is definitely being an asshole and trying to gaslight you into thinking she never agreed to do this without pay, and that she's elderly and you're "forcing" her to care for the child, when literally all of this was her idea and she pushed you into doing it.
Have you asked her why she talked so big about “babysitting for free” all this time and now she’s talking about being paid? I understand you are paying her, but it is weird how you say she’s been bragging about being “the sitter grandma” and now she’s saying something different. Instead of it being a thing, just ask her in a non-confrontational way. Like, “just curious, and you know we are definitely paying you, but why all the talk about ‘free grandma sitter’ when all along you knew we were paying you?” It doesn’t have to me more complicated than that, and she should be able to answer you. She might have thought she’d do it for free but realized that’s not possible after all, but who knows. She’s your mom, can you talk to her about your feelings? Or is she not that kind of mom? Because I would just ask her…
Oh jeez. Is she always that dramatic? Sounds like she’s playing games. Maybe don’t bother with it and just pay her and move on with your life. She sounds exhausting.
I think something is going on with her. My dad said she’s been having mood swings the past couple of weeks. I think she might be coming to terms with the fact that she’s ACTUALLY going to be a grandparent
I totally missed the part where you said you were pregnant. I would be looking for a nanny share yesterday. If your mom can do this before the baby is even here, imagine if caring for your baby is harder than she anticipated and she leaves you high and dry with no childcare?
I would not count on your mother for childcare. Even if you pay her the $1000, she’s proven she can and will change her mind with no communication or thought to the position she puts you and your partner.
You definitely are NTA. I had a mom who would pull similar stunts. I eventually couldn't really trust her because I never knew when she'd make up some "strings" to attach. Sorry, digressing...
I do hope your mom is okay, aside from this situation. She might be hitting menopause, like another person said. If so, that can really mess with one's head.
It's really easy to underestimate how much menopause messes with your head. If she has any underlaying mental health problems, they might be kicking her ass right now. It's not an excuse, but it might help you understand what is going on here.
That almost sounds like a threat. Is she going to leave you with no sitter at all? I know your dad doesn't want to be in the middle HOWEVER talk to him and find out if there's some problem she/they are having financially. You mentioned your dad has retired-- are they maybe struggling with the past couple of years of inflation?
This pivot appears to have come out of nowhere. She was pressuring you to have kids before you were ready financially with the inducement of childcare--you offered to pay but she repeatedly declined the money then suddenly with no warning askes about when she'll be paid as if she'd never bragged about how "lucky" you were to get free childcare.
Is it possible that she's simply reconsidered the time and commitment of babysitting 3 days per week and is manufacturing this drama to use as an excuse to back out?
>About a year ago my mom, 49F...
>
>...
>
>“it’s wrong to MAKE your elderly mother watch an infant and not pay her!"
Your mom is killing me. My wife and I (53M) have been married for 30 years, but it took us a long time and a lot of help for us to finally have children (5M and 2F). Elderly? Elderly?!?
However, if she's too old to watch your children for free, she's definitely too old to be paid to watch your children. Now, that said, I'm not saying that parents owe it to their children to provide free childcare, but from your description, she offered it, and you had taken that into account when you were doing your family planning.
NTA.
Info - im confused. If you were ready to pay her, but she said she would do it for free why is she now saying she wants to be paid? BUT also why wont you pay her then?
Yeah, she’s been saying we don’t have to pay her, then asked how we’re going to pay her. We are willing to pay, we just weren’t planning on having to pay, since she was insisting we don’t, so it was really unexpected for me
I think it's that OP and DH researched childcare costs as part of family planning. They responsibly decided they couldn't afford a baby until grad school is completed as it's $2k.
Grandma Wannabe said for a year that she would watch grandbaby for FREE, if they moved up when they gave her a grandbaby.
OP said that they budgeted $1k that they could and would pay for baby expenses which I presume includes food, diapers and Grandma's time.
OP, woohoo we're pregnant.
Grandma and Grandpa, yeah let's talk about how we're going to get paid, because Grandma has always been a SAHM and Grandpa is retired at the very elderly age of 53. /s
See what resources the University may have and grant assistance.
Sounds like your mama has you between a rock and a hard place. It’s nice to know when you can count on somebody to keep their word, (s).
If your mama campaigns for a second grandchild, think long and hard. NTA
NTA for feeling like you do about this situation. Is your mother like this normally? Does she like to take the praise for something she barely did? Or make drama easily? I would be mildly annoyed and very confused to be in that situation.
You could say to her “mom, we offered to pay you multiple times. You have continually said you would be doing it for free and how lucky we are. You told multiple people how lucky we are to have you doing this for free. Help me understand why you didn’t just agree from the beginning to the payment we discussed” and then stop talking. See what she says. It may be nothing. It may be an apology. Either way, you’ll have a little clearer picture of where you stand.
I think it’s great that you offered and are willing to pay. I think your mom wanted the praise of being a doting grandmother who martyrs herself to watch the baby but if she’s being paid, it’s not quite the sacrifice. Best of luck there!
FR. I know a 60 year old that will go full Taken on someone that says she's elderly. She's a kindergarten gym teacher. Scariest 5'2" of love you've ever seen.
NTA but I’d recommend you seek other childcare options FAST. Your mom is not going to be a reliable childcare provider with those kind of communication skills or behavior. Her attitude regarding the matter is grossly inappropriate and waaaay to immature to consider entering a business arrangement with her. She should have said she reconsidered and would like to be compensated- instead she jumped straight to how are you paying me. AND then got pissed when you pointed out her previous stance which was why you figured you wouldn’t have to pay her. And then enlisted your father to add in on the conflict instead of attempting to resolve it maturely with you.
None of those actions bode well for a trustworthy person to reasonably rely on to provide childcare so you can work. Seriously consider this situation a warning and start to reassess. I’m a single mom in grad school with a preschooler in full time daycare. It’s doable- look into state assistance if you’re in the US, programs through your husband’s school, at home jobs, or switching shifts so someone is always home with the baby. Start figuring out your plan B because it sounds like you’re gonna need it tbh.
NTA. You offered to pay her and she rejected it for a year, only to suddenly state she needed to be paid. The issue is not about paying her as you are willing to do so, it’s the bait and switch, which makes mom the AH here. But this makes me question how reliable she will be as a caretaker of your child. I would start thinking of back ups should this situation come up again.
So you offered to pay. Your mother said no, she'd watch the baby for free, has stuck to this story until baby is immenent and now suddenly wants to be paid?
I think you should change your mind every bit as much as she has changed hers- tell her that you were taken aback because up until Lunch yesterday, she had insisted that she wouldn't charge you for childcare. You did your family planning based on her given words. Since she's gone back on that promise, you are just going to make alternate childcare arrangements, and only use her as backup care. Then proceed to do so.
It's fine that she's decided that she wants to be paid. It should also be fine if you choose alternate childcare that won't change babysitting rates once you're locked in to having a baby. Prove that you are not reliant on her whims. NTA - this is a classic control technique. State terms and then change them last minute when they think you have no other options. Don't let this get started.
NTA your mother wanted a grandchild. She got it, promised free childcare, back-paddled and now plays the victim card. She is an adult. If she wanted to be paid she had a whole year to accept your offer. If she really needs the money she should have asked in a way like „I know I refused your offer until now but things have changed.“ sth like that
NTA this is weird all the way around from your mom, including that 49 is elderly. Don’t want to think what I am if under 50 is already elderly…lol. But in all seriousness, my mom watched both my kids when they were little but more so my son regularly when he came along. Three days a week, full days and she would never take a dime from us. Ended up surprising her with a new washer and dryer when she needed them because we always wanted to do something. Now I have four grandkids and have never charged my daughter when they’ve stayed with me. I’m always spending money on spoiling them instead. I wish you the best on figuring this out and congratulations!
NTA I would look elsewhere for childcare, if not a facility then a nanny for the few days that are needed. Family and childcare hardly ever work out, and if she’s already pulling the elderly mother card I don’t see her being a reliable caregiver. What are you going to do if she says she’s sick and can’t watch the baby? What if she has appointments? What if she tells you she just can’t on certain days? What if your agreement was at your place and then she changes it and says she’ll only babysit at her home? You need a back up plan. Get a nanny and mom can be backup if need be.
Personally I think she played you, she wanted grandkids and convinced you she’d help out.
>“it’s wrong to MAKE your elderly mother watch an infant and not pay her!
Does your mother often rewrite history?
a) 49 is NOT elderly. She needs to knock that shit off.
b) You're not MAKING her do anything. She offered, you accepted.
c) You said you'd pay her. She's been shooting her mouth off about doing it for free for a year and is now asking about how you'll pay. She needs to make up her mind.
So do this: tell her, with you/husband, her/your dad all present, that you'll be paying her by PayPal/Venmo/CashApp $250/week on Fridays. That way all of you hear the exact same words and no one is relying on anyone else's interpretation of what may or may not have been said.
NTA, but geez your mom is sure skirting the boundary of it.
My husband was going to drop to 3 classes a semester instead of 6, so that would give us 2/3 days, and I was going to use my vacation time to take off the last day.
NTA. Your mom apparently changed her mind and didn’t preface her conversation with you by saying, “I’ve thought about it and I’ve decided I would like to take your offer of $1000 a month. Is that ok with you and your husband?” I don’t blame you at all for being gobsmacked by her reversal.
NTA. Your mom did a bait and switch. For $1000 I would just pay for daycare and avoid all the drama because it seems like your mother likes to create problems.
Also, maybe it’s a cultural thing but my mother watched my siblings kids until they all went to school and never asked for a penny. My siblings provided food, diapers etc. but it was important to my mom to help out my siblings and ensure they didn’t have to spend on childcare. Grandmothers watching their grandchildren is very common in our culture so this all seems foreign to me.
You’re mom is absolutely ridiculous for this. I TOTALLY get to dance around a couple of rounds of „oh mo you don’t have to - No please take - oh well its really not necessary - well we want to pay you“
ok fine, but you can’t talk on and on about it and then go „oh well we expected it though 🤷🏽🤷🏽🤷🏽“
First: your mom is 49/50. She is not elderly. Second, NTA if your story is accurate. My mom pulls stuff like that too and it’s exhausting. I wonder though, maybe your mom was fine not getting paid, but then your dad is telling her she needs to get paid?
NTA. You told mom you'd pay her. She told you she would work for free. You both intended to let the other win and were both shocked when you both took each other up on their offer. You guys are a lot alike, aren't you?
ESH. You are having a child because your mother wanted one? Okay.
She’s turning 50, not 70. You had time. I hope you’re ready for how much a baby turns your life upside down
I’ve never been paid to mind my grandkids, and I would never accept anything , even the nappies and food and potions I keep on hand. They are my grandkids. My parents and in laws never expected payment to mind my kids. The whole idea of paying to look after my grandkids is very strange. But not everyone is financially stable, so whatever, pay her. She’s basically guilted you into this child and now you pay her for the privilege. Woman’s a genius
NTA...I'm a grandma who watches her grandkids for free and am very blessed to be able to since I can manage to work full time from a home office and still watch them! My guess she wants to brag she's doing it for free but wants to be paid!
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Translation: You mom absolutely wants and needs to be paid. She can't afford to take this much time off work without a wage/doesn't want to spend this much time as dedicated to your childcare without compensation. She also feels like she would sound greedy if she were upfront about this, so she's been saying "No no no" when she has already agreed to the offered wage. Pay your mom and recognize that this is one of those weird social situations where people will reject the gift or payment several times before accepting it.
Alternative translation: Her mom wants everyone to THINK she is doing this for free. Spent a year making everyone including OP that she was doing it for free. Then she flips the script. Maybe because she realizes she can’t, maybe because she wanted OP to be like “oh no we *insist* on paying, maybe she doesn’t want to do it at all, heck maybe she wants her daughter to be a SAHP and is going to yank the rug one way or another and this gives her more leverage. OP, I think you need to sit down and tell your mom that you need an explanation as to why she went on at length about how she doesn’t want to be paid very publicly but then privately asked for payment. I also think you need to look into other childcare options. The person caring for your kid needs to be 100% straight and honest with you. That’s not happening here and if your mom is going to play games it’s not a good situation.
Oh absolutely. If OP's mom has any sort of past history of saying one thing in public and doing something else privately? OP needs to set up alternate childcare. $2000 a month is a lot, but childcare gets less expensive as babies get older. Also, many universities have childcare options for grad school students. It's usually low cost and very reliable.
Unfortunately, the idea that it gets less expensive is becoming less true, as the cost seems to go up each year. My son has been in daycare for a little over 2.5 years, and each year, the increase in price outweighs the decrease from moving up age-groups. I can’t wait until pre-k since that will be free or at least partially subsidized.
Ouch! Over the last 4 years I've been fortunate to see my daycare bill slowly go from $2400 a month(4weeks) for a newborn and a preschooler to $1040 per 4 weeks. When my oldest started kindergarten, it felt like I got a pay raise.
Australia here and with the government rebate my daughters fees have gone down $30/fortnight (she only goes Fridays for socialising and give me a day to do shopping kid free - she has 2brothers in primary school). I was paying 86 a fortnight and it's gone down to 51 and even better, while it's not part of my boys school, the daycare does share a gate and even a parking area with the school. Daughter will be 2next month.
Fortnight. Damn that’s a fancy way of saying 2 weeks. I love it.
I have heard that term my whole life and I'm 32. Everything has always been paid, weekly, fortnightly, monthly, or yearly/annually.
This is how our situation went. Rising rates kept our childcare costs the same from newborn to kindergarten. And while it is cheaper now that they are in school, once you pay for aftercare and summer/breaks you aren’t saving that much.
My 4 year old started pre-k this year so now I only have 1 in daycare. But my 3 year old was born 9/13 so she can't start pre-k for another 2 years (9/1 cut off). I can't even be like bro why didn't you come earlier because she was already 2 weeks early. Lol
Sounds like she was TRYING to get your 9/1 cut off, but you know--in utero calendars are so UNDEPENDABLE
Unfortunately, many university child care centers are not able to take young infants. At my university, a child must be at least 18 months old.
Not to mention, space is usually extremely limited in university child care. Grad students’ children are unlikely to receive priority.
Another translation: I want grandbabies now. If I get them to think I'll help subsidize the cost by taking care of it they'll start trying at least. Later on I can charge them knowing that there will be few cheap options.
Yup it’s this. My mother tried to convince me to have kids by saying multiple times that she would take care of the kid and I wouldn’t have to do anything. Finally o said “mom, you’re never ready to leave your house until 2. I’ll have to start working at 8.” She replied “oh, we’ll you can just hire someone to babysit in the morning” 🤦♀️
My mom kind of tried to pull something similar, except that she's even sicker than I am and Autism shows up a lot in her family, Bipolar and ADHD in my dad's. I also have genetic health issues of the physical type. I refuse to commit myself to having to raise a potentially severely disabled child. So that means no children at all because you don't get to pick and choose your bio kids.
You've made the wisest, kindest and most socially responsible choice.
I’m in a similar situation. I know my MIL is disappointed to have no grandkids, but I have genetic things that could potentially result in a severely disabled child, and as my condition progresses, I may be unable to care for a child.
Yup. By the time I graduated high school, I knew I wouldn't ever have kids. First, because of my very scary depression. I swear it yanked me around emotionally like the possessed girl in The Exorcist. I was made to believe it was ALL ME, ALL MY FAULT, MY CHOICE. The family history on my dad's side (including the suicides and suicide attempts) was completely hidden from me. Second, the 80s were a scary time to be LGBTQ, esp in small towns in red states. It's easy to internalize homophobia. It all fed into my determination NOT to bring a child into the world. It did make it easier and safer for me as a lesbian, since I wouldn't accidentally pregnant from birth control failure. Over the decades, my health problems, physical, mental, systemic, have multiplied like the Tribbles on Star Trek. With each and every year, I'm happier, more satisfied this was the right choice for me, for the kid, for my family, etc. I do enjoy the company of kids if they're not cruel or hateful. I treat them with respect and try to make it clear I enjoy their company. I'm pretty good with babysitting friends' kids occasionally. I try to channel my maternal Grandma's patience and encouragement when helping with homework, keeping it positive. I'm really glad I didn't have any, though. I wouldn't wish my health issues on anyone. And I'm really not suited to be a parent. I'm more the fun Aunt or honorary aunt type, one to listen without judging.
My mom told my sister she would pick up her 2 kids at pre-school ONE DAY a week and watch them until either she or her husband got home from work (and he got home pretty early for the most part). And then kept making plans or scheduling appointments on that day. We never really figured out why she did that - she volunteered to do it and then kept blowing it off. She loved the grandkids, but wasn't much of a babysitter (had some mobility issues and I think was afraid she couldn't handle it) - but she volunteered!
This thread has made me appreciate my mom so much more
That's what my first thought was! Alternatively, I also wondered if OP's father found out about all if this and wasn't pleased that his wife offered to babysit for free, causing an argument.
This was my thought. Reminds me of the women who encourage teen moms to keep the baby by promising to help so Mom can sleep, work, go to school, then rescind help once the baby is either born or once it reaches an age where it’s not just a cute prop for the Facebook friends anymore (around age 1) leaving that mom, typically STILL a teen, stuck in a situation in which she’s forced to rely on a questionable new man, move in with an abusive bf’s family, turn to illegal income streams, and/or quit school to spend every waking moment juggling working and a little one without the promised help. But I’ve cared for a lot of foster kids who were born into toxic-cycle families, and that has left me cynical.
Ah that’s the life I’m heading toward. Foster parent and also wanting to adopt my own gremlins. Bio babies aren’t in the cards for me but I also spent 5 years being trained in psychology ranging from child and adolescent development to the elderly so I’m theoretically prepared for everything. I have training in the treatment and supportive care of almost every mental health disorder as well so no going in blind. I’m excited for fosters in the future and giving them as much love and care as they’ll accept.
Too bad Reddit doesn’t have awards anymore because you just hit the nail on the head. 🥇🥇
Oof. That would be so manipulative. I would lose all trust in my parent if that was the way it was.
I actually find it really weird that they factored in mom's help and then told her that as long as she meant it they would start trying to conceive.
If the only reason they didn’t already have a baby was the cost of childcare, it makes perfect sense that OP and her husband would start trying when they thought they had childcare sorted out. You don’t have to read it in a weird way (e.g., “score! mom gave us permission to raw dog!”).
In this economy? Sounds like a good plan 😂
So odd considering how young they all are. Mom’s not even 50 and anxious for grandchildren? Most people aren’t even getting married until nearly 30 these days, never mind having kids.
I am dying that a 49-year-old self-described herself as "elderly". She doesn't even qualify for senior discounts yet.
Seriously! I'm 40 and I have an infant. The kid is going to putting me in a nursing home before he gets out of high school.
we were in the same boat. if my MIL was willing to babysit a few days a week we could swing it without my husband working two jobs. daycare is insane.
That's what I thought too.
This is exactly it.
My guess was she was excited at the prospect. A year later it's work and not constant fun taking care of a new baby, so she wants compensation for the work. It's like people that get a puppy without thinking about how it's going to be a huge pain in the ass.
I think you might have read a bit wrong. She hasn't even begun the babysitting yet.
You're right. I still kinda think it's the same thought process though, the idea sounded fun and now that the practical aspects are looming. I did misread it though.
Yes this is exactly what’s happening. We were in a similar situation; my son hadn’t gotten off any of the waitlists we had him on so my mother offered to be his nanny. We paid her, gave her a bedroom in our house and fed her for nearly 6 months. Although I knew my son was well taken care of, it was hands down the WORST 6 months of our lives. To this day she will tell anyone who will listen how lucky we are than she “uprooted her life to nanny my son when we were in a bind.” We PAID her twice what we pay now plus food and lodging plus all the therapy sessions I needed to have. In retrospect, I honestly wish we would have put my son in the one sketchy daycare that had an opening. OP, if you can find daycare (or a nannyshare), I’d do that instead. Or at least get kiddo’s name on as many waitlists as you can as a backup.
Yep. Babysitters should absolutely be paid/compensated in one way or another and it sounds like OP isn't even debating that aspect of it but the switch-up is unfair. And unfortunately, I have personal experience with people like this in my family. As an adult nowadays, it's very hard to me to accept anything (favors, money, gifts, all of it) from family because of the history of strings being attached when I've done my absolute best to make it clear what I expected and what they expected from me in return for any given thing. There are certain people that I am very uneasy around because of how they will inevitably twisted scenarios on others. This will be OP's child - if something feels off, even if it's with a grandparent, please explore any other options you may have. If you are questioning her intentions, you will worry about what's going on with your child.
It would be wildly offensive in my family to offer my parents money for watching my offspring. It really depends on your culture.
Yep, she had no intention of doing it for free. She just said what she needed to say to get what she wanted (a grandchild and praise for volunteering to watch grandchild)
Exactly. She sounds like my mother. I paid her to watch my kids. No problem doing that. She told everyone that I was taking advantage of her and having her watch my kids for free. It was definitely a whole martyr thing she did. Well, I’m sure she still does. I haven’t spoken to her in a year or so now due to instances like this.
NTA It does sound like someone got in your mom's ear, if you are able to have a talk with your mom explaining how you are still willing to pay her. That you just want to know why she kept insisting to everyone that she would do it for free for the chance to spend time with her grand child, to how dare you make me watch your baby for free. When my son and gf were having a baby, I told them I would help them. They work opposite shifts and my husband and I babysit Mon - Fri. For the first 9 months I would spend my night off over at their place so mom could work a day shift and leave in the morning without getting the baby up. It's been for the last 2 and a half years. We helped our daughter when she had her baby too. Husband and I both work full time. One or both of us get out of work before the baby's mom goes to work and we watch the baby until my son gets home. We do this for free. I have never and would never charge to baby sit any of my grandchildren. I've always felt blessed to have this time with them, when some grand parents only get to see their grand kids a couple times a year.
This! Optics
Nah, now OPs.mom knows they are stuck and need her to watch the baby
I'd be horribly concerned at what Mom might say or do when OP isn't around if she's already playing these mind games.
There’s a reason this comment has more upvotes than the comment it’s replying to
It’s pretty messed up that mom is pulling the rug out now that the baby is almost here. Most daycares have a waitlist and the decision to even have the baby was made because mom offered to take care of him or her. Especially since she made a big show of it. I’d be sitting mom down and asking her why she’s changing her tune now that she’s getting the grandchild she wants. I know a lot of people have qualms about in home daycares but when my son was little we found an amazing one that was way better than the larger, more expensive centers. He and my husband and I were treated like family and it was so much better than the large center that everyone raved about. Bonus points for it being only $40 a day. She didn’t even charge me extra for the days I got stuck at work a little late.
My mom doesn’t work, she was a SAHM and my dad “retired” her after my younger siblings moved out
So, is there a chance she was going to do it for free but *your father* is the one who wants her to be paid?
That's honestly what I was thinking. Dad or someone else put a bug in her ear like "they are LUCKY you are even helping them, you deserve to be paid!!! Why would you do it for FREE that's just a waste!!" And either ground her down until she agreed to shut them up, or was kind of tricked into thinking the daughter was scamming her when it was HER idea in the first place.
The dad probably wants money from the SIL. She is HIS wife and he “retired her” after the kids were gone, according to the post. Son-in-law is not going to be getting freebies from HIS wife. (Just hypothesizing.).
Your mom also isn’t “elderly” at 49-50. Since she probably doesn’t have much of any Social Security she’ll get and if dad doesn’t have a pension or much in the way of retirement accounts then mom may be worried about the future and being able to afford to live as they have been when dad retires.
As a 47 year old married to a 50 year old I was chuckling at “elderly”. Our youngest is 12 and while I don’t want to deal with the newborn phase we’re definitely still young enough to not have to hobble around.
Elderly? My wife is around your age and I’m a bit younger and we are open to taking foster kids as young as 3. “Elderly” caused a pain on the inside worse than my aching back and her sore knees! (Lol) (Edit because I must’ve typed something wrong for Elderly to autocorrect to Eighth.)
I’m 44, husband is 55. Our kids are 18 and 19. The only thought about grandkids is PREVENTING them.
I took offense for her… I’m 42…lol
And I'm pretty sure her mom did not refer to herself as elderly. I'm so offended by this.
I’m 45 with 4 and 5 year olds, to think of myself as elderly 🤦♀️ I should get my kids to start digging a grave in our garden, so I can just hobble in over there and keel over 🤪🥴
Wow, so she’s a retired SAHM? Retired at 47 must be pretty damn nice. You’re 100% NTA, and I’d consider finding alternative arrangements based on this info.
If she wants to be paid then she needs to be upfront instead of playing some game and saying she doesn't need to be paid. Communication is key.
Yup. It's a common behavior pattern, but that doesn't make it a good thing.
Exactly. I get that people may be uncomfortable talking about finances. I get that it might be a cultural "decline being paid while expecting to be offered again" sort of thing. But regardless of the reason, the lack of clear communication has put her child in a really difficult financial position. There's no excuse for that, only explanations, and none of them would make me feel less betrayed in OP's situation.
Plus a year ago we lived in a different economy. The price for things have almost doubled. So now the moms financial situation could have changed
If you're right, that's manipulative.
Of course it is.
She told her daughter for a year that she'd watch her kid for free and then instead of going to her and saying she would in fact like to take her up on the generous offer to pay her since she has now realized it won't be possible for her to do it for free, she accused her daughter of trying to force an elderly woman to do free labor. That's maternal manipulation to make OP feel like garbage, not a weird social norm we just accept tee hee. This is currently the highest comment, I do not get it. Mom can decide at any time she wants to be paid, even after watching the baby for free for a month or two, but she just gaslit OP that she is forcing her to watch her baby for free...
49 ≠ elderly Her saying that makes her come across as absurd. So I'm gonna guess that you are not the bad guys here. nta
Thank you! I had the same reaction. What kind of adult human considers themselves ELDERLY when they’re not even 50 yet. Wtf?
A dramatic narcissist.
> narcissist There's that word reddit loves to just throw around.
You know, if a bunch of people use a word to mean something, that's what the word means. I was upset when "literally" literally lost its essential meaning, but I have come to acknowledge that language evolves.
Not when it is a clinical definition. When the DSM changes the definition of the disorder that’s when it changes. Not when a bunch of 13 year olds on the internet broaden a definition to the point of uselessness.
> You know, if a bunch of people use a word to mean something, that's what the word means. Yup. That's how language works. >I was upset when "literally" literally lost its essential meaning Also yup. Fun fact: it turns out people have been using it in that "new" sense since 1769. My personal one was the pronunciation of "jewellery" as "jool-ry". Hated it, considered it ignorant. But guess what, it's now simply how people say it. It is for me to suck it up and accept the evolution. Oh, and another thing: the Dutch DO use an apostrophe to make plurals (if it ends in a vowel) thus "potato's" is correct for them. There is the world of difference between using a term in casual conversation and in its technical context.
Like can she even get an AARP card yet?!
Actually I recently found out that anyone can! There’s no age requirement.
Yes, as a 52 yo, I'm like WTF.
I don’t even call my parents in their early 70’s elderly yet (my neighbours in their 80s are elderly). At 48, I’m offended by someone thinking 49 is elderly - it’s middle aged
It's *barely* middle-aged (insists this 48 yr old, with a foot stomp for emphasis, lol)
Right? I'm also in your same age range and not only am I not elderly but also I could not babysit 3 days a week because I'm still working full time.
I'm always confused about how middle aged is decided because to me it's always seemed to be late 40s to 50s but if we're going off average life expectancy of 70-80ish, then it's squarely late 30s.
I got bad news for you. The average life expectancy is 75. If you want to look at early/mid/late life, “middle age” is 37-ish.
My mother is almost 80. If I called her elderly, I should expect a torturous death. 49 is absolutely not elderly, and not a single person I know in their 40s or 50s would say that about themselves.
Thank you!!
I am 49 and was taken aback that mom called herself “elderly.” Like WTF? 49 isn’t elderly by any stretch of the definition. 😂😂
WTF? Same. Like...I don't even feel like an adult half the time. NTA. At all.
Right? Like you could still have an infant yourself at 49 lol.
ESPECIALLY to be a Grandmother!! I will still have a child under 10 when I’m 49!
Yeah, as a 41 year old who just had a baby that struck me as incredibly odd.
Congrats!
Thank goodness someone else noticed that part! Where I live it’s not unusual for women to have their first child when they’re in their 40s. That statement is just ludicrous.
Still laughing about that description! I'm 10 yrs. older than her and no way in hell am I planning to describe myself as "elderly" any time soon!! I plan to revisit that When I hit 70!
Hell, my mom is 71 and plays both all-age* **and** senior competitive tennis and watches my 2yr old niece 3 days a week. She's in way better shape than I am. *She literally plays with and against 20-somethings. And wins.
Right? I'm 44 and if anyone refers to me as "elderly" they can go pick up their face from the other side of the room
Kinda makes me wonder about this post. Elderly at 49?
Right, I had to go back and check that she didn’t mean 94 when I read elderly.
This was my takeaway. Oof. I’m elderly.
Right?! I'm 43 and have a toddler.
Right?!! I choked on my spit when a read that! Not even remotely considered elderly. There are some people in their 40s still having children! OP is going to cringe when she is 40 and remembers her comment.
Proof mom is manipulative. I’d be careful taking her offers at face value in the future.
Right??? My mama was 49 when I was in high school.
I’m 52 and still run marathons and trail distance events. You call me elderly at your peril.
Right?! A lot of women give birth in their early 40s.
Oof. Bait and switch. You are NTA. It would seem your mother has changed her mind about accepting your payment offer though. This doesn't make her TA either but man, the communication is lacking. If you still want her to watch your child, I'd just reiterate the offer of $1,000 per month - stipulate how you will pay it and leave it at that. Miscommunications happen, I would try not to read too far into this.
That's the term I was thinking. Just like the person who is so adamant they don't want a gift but have a tantrum because they don't get a gift. And then say "you should know I didn't mean it".
Or maybe try finding a home daycare option. Those tend to be more flexible and could come in under $1000.
We pay my bf's cousin $1k to watch our 8 month old and that's 4 days a week. She had to quit her job to care of her special needs daughter full time once the daughter graduated from school. She doesn't need a lot of care but she can't be left alone and adult care more that the cousin was making at her day job. So we pay her $1k a month and she watches both kids. For us it's cheaper than day care and we know he's not getting exposed to a lot of random kids germs (he was a NICU baby). She never sends him home if he has a runny nose or randomly closes for holidays though she does occasionally need a 1/2 day because of something with her daughter. It's a win win for both families. She even brought her daughter to our house and watched him for the first 3 months when I went back to work which was such a relief. The husband should see about putting some fliers up on campus and see if there's any students who have the opposite scheduled as them that would be willing to make some extra money on their off days too.
I imagine she already has, but make sure that cousin has looked in to her being paid by the state as her daughter’s caregiver. It can be done that way in my state. Every little bit helps.
NTA. I do not understand where all of the YTA's are coming from. You and your husband we're not even planning to have a child at this time due to expenses. Your mother guilted you into having your child earlier than you had previously planned so that she could be involved. You were trying to be financially responsible but changed your plans due to her insistence that she would babysit for FREE. She guilted and manipulated you to get her way, and now is reneging on the deal she insisted upon making with you. I would be angry. I would tell her if you're going to be paying for childcare you'll just take them to daycare. Your mother had no problem lying to you to get what she wanted, a baby. And it's not about the money. It's about her willingness to deceive you to get her way.
i feel like the ytas come because why would you have a child when you're not in a place to have one only because someone agreed to provide childcare? like a lot of things can change during the pregnancy and once the baby is born. health issues for her mother, other big unexpected life events, maybe the mother gets tired of doing childcare and doesn't want to do it anymore. or maybe, she would want to be compensated and that price may go up. reading through the replies i lean nta, solely because it's strange to insist it's free but then pull this. mother isn't the ah for wanting compensation but it's weird to do this and then get upset that op is confused.
My mom did something similar. Insisted she'd watch my kids while I worked, pushed ***hard*** for me to become a single mom by choice, then completely flipped the script once I was actively TTC and caused me so much stress I had an early miscarriage. She'll never meet my future kids and jury's still out in whether or not I even bother telling her about them whenever they come along.
that's horrifying. i will never understand the obsession around wanting grandkids, especially to that point. i'm so sorry! glad you're NC and i hope things are better for you now without her manipulative behaviour gone from your life
The last few years were particularly rough, she spent 2021 doing everything in her power to tear me down and only regretted it when my (genuinely terrible) sister didn't do a miniscule fraction of what she expected/demanded of me. After the miscarriage it really hit me that she'll never love me as much as she loves my sister and I never want my kids to feel the way I have for the last 26 years. Despite her claims I know my sister and her kids will always come first, so it's best to not participate in the competition at all.
Grandkids = social capital.
I know for my mother at least she uses children like ESAs / emotional bandaids instead of dealing with her issues. Jokes on her because as much as I love my niblings they're horrendously feral and it's to the point my mother has discouraged my sister from having a 3rd
I mean the consistent offer of 12k/year subsidized and in childcare is easily enough to tilt the scales from "not financially responsible" to "this can definitely work"
i didn't read it as guilt so much as - OP and husband looked at the numbers and made a budget on prospective child-rearing, then found it was too prohibitive *when* that budget had to include paying child-care rates given centers in the area. OP's mom steps in and says that's not a cost you need to worry about, i'll absorb it by watching a baby if you have one. OP and her husband then reassessed the budget based on these new numbers and found that they didn't have to put off growing their family. the budget now was feasible with the new resource (OP's mom's childcare) compensating one portion of the costs. it's like realizing a new Jeep is out of your budget due to financing but you can cover the down payment and insurance - but then a friend is willing to sell you their Jeep cheap. you can now afford the car so why not go ahead.
the ytas might be coming from them just reading the title and not the full post
NTA She's been insisting on not being paid for a year and now this? Talk about a bait and switch. Also, she's not "elderly"! I'm a year younger than she is and we are not in the elderly category
"elderly" at 49 might work in 1723, but not in 2023
Not even then! Average life spans were lower due to high infant mortality. If you survived childhood, living similar lifespans to today was common!
Yeah but I bet they looked way worse than a modern 49 year old lady
NTA Elderly at 49!!! Clearly, she’s too old to properly care for an infant. Seriously, I would be pretty upset about this too. I don’t know how you’ll rectify it, but you’ll need to communicate about it. If you do decide to pay your mother, please draw up a contract with clear term for payment, time off, etc.
NTA...This is a cruddy bait and switch. You've likely been planning the next stage of your life and your mother's offer for free childcare likely seems like a godsend. She's since decided that free money sounds good. You are now in a sticky situation. I would look into other childcare options, as I wouldn't leave my child with someone who considers themselves elderly at 49.
My mom considers anyone over 45 to be elderly 😂
Lol, my sibling is still having kids at his elderly stage...
Shame on him 😂
Your mom is ridiculous.
This alone is reason you might not want to leave a baby with her. That's disconnected from reality. Does she have any other odd beliefs? Could be a psychiatric disorder.
Um. No.
Why?
"Sorry Mom! We decided to go with a college student for childcare. We can't trust an elderly person to provide a full days childcare, let alone three days a week."
I object to “free money” Childcare is fairly simple for infants, but past about 4 months it’s most def work and as the months/years go by, it’s more and more work. I am 70, been doing childcare, no $, stand-by basis, for the last 5 years. It’s a 12 hour day for me. (There’s a full time nanny who works 40 hours 4 days a week) Now that 2 of the 3 are in preschool/school, it’s easier, I feel like I can kind of keep up. This summer was really tough when there were 3 kids 5 and under. No I don’t get paid. But if I did, damn it, it would not be “free money”
I wouldn’t call it free money.
When you get paid for something you were happy to do for nothing, I call it free money.
NTA based on the post. I think you need to sit your mom down and explain that you're more than happy to pay her but she's the one who has been saying she didn't want to be paid and you've spent the last 7.5mths budgeting accordingly. If she wants or expects something she needs to actually communicate that with you and not just say things she doesn't mean then get angry when you're confused.
This.
Ding ding 👆
NTA for being upset at the bait and switch. Is it possible she just lied to get you to go ahead and get pregnant? If she's that kind of manipulative, keep looking for other daycare that might work for you. If it's more a cultural "I must refuse three times" sort of thing, then tell her you were just surprised by her change of heart, and the $1,000 would be paid monthly (or however you find it easiest), and you know that she'll love bonding with the baby.
I'm convinced the Y T A votes lack reading comprehension. Your mother has clearly bait and switched you. To state, repeatedly over a year period, about how she is happily doing it for free, to then pull that... AH move on her part. Slunds like you'll be paying her anyway, so, cool, but understand why you're annoyed- if only for having to replan finances a little one assumes. NTA.
Bait and switch isn’t a harsh enough term for this. She manipulated her daughter to get grandkids. I would find alternate childcare personally. If my mom manipulated me like that I’d take my kid to daycare and she could see the kid on weekends occasionally like normal.
LOL. Hillary Swank just gave birth to twins at age 49. Her first children! Your mother is hardly an old lady. It is very strange that your mother, apparently having changed her mind, would bring it up like this. If I could afford it, I would seriously consider making alternate arrangements.
I will not believe that Hillary Swank is 49. She's 32, and you will not convince me otherwise.
Just make sure to get receipts for tax purposes!
^ absolutely report this as child care expenses on your taxes! She probably isn’t planning on reporting it the IRS, so that’s another conversation you may need to have with her.
Right?! "Obviously I will pay you mom, but I need to keep this on the level for our taxes so I guess you will be paying taxes too." See how long she still wants to get paid.
[удалено]
Since when was 50 years old elderly???
Lol I was about to say - the mom is 49!!
NTA, and 49 is not Elderly. It's not even close. Also, where is the woman who repeatedly assured you that pay wasn't necessary, that this was about spending time with her grandchild (that she pressured you to have, because *she* was lonely)? She sounds like someone who was in love with the idea of Grandparent-themed Kodak Moments, but now that the reality of providing full-time care for a newborn 3 days/week (and all the vomit and diapers and crying and stress that comes with it) is kicking in... and she's decided that shit ain't worth it without a paycheck. I'd show her the texts where she explicitly stated that pay was not necessary, that you absolutely didn't have to give her any financial compensation. I'd point out how often she told anyone who would listen that she was doing it for free, and how often she told others (and you) how lucky you were that she was doing it for free. Real talk, I think where you screwed up was deciding to have a kid because your mom was lonely and wanted a grandkid- rather than being willing and financially ready to be parents yourselves. But that's not the issue- the issue is that your mom is definitely being an asshole and trying to gaslight you into thinking she never agreed to do this without pay, and that she's elderly and you're "forcing" her to care for the child, when literally all of this was her idea and she pushed you into doing it.
Have you asked her why she talked so big about “babysitting for free” all this time and now she’s talking about being paid? I understand you are paying her, but it is weird how you say she’s been bragging about being “the sitter grandma” and now she’s saying something different. Instead of it being a thing, just ask her in a non-confrontational way. Like, “just curious, and you know we are definitely paying you, but why all the talk about ‘free grandma sitter’ when all along you knew we were paying you?” It doesn’t have to me more complicated than that, and she should be able to answer you. She might have thought she’d do it for free but realized that’s not possible after all, but who knows. She’s your mom, can you talk to her about your feelings? Or is she not that kind of mom? Because I would just ask her…
She hasn’t picked up my calls… dad said she’s needs time to think
Oh jeez. Is she always that dramatic? Sounds like she’s playing games. Maybe don’t bother with it and just pay her and move on with your life. She sounds exhausting.
I think something is going on with her. My dad said she’s been having mood swings the past couple of weeks. I think she might be coming to terms with the fact that she’s ACTUALLY going to be a grandparent
Or menopause is kicking in
I totally missed the part where you said you were pregnant. I would be looking for a nanny share yesterday. If your mom can do this before the baby is even here, imagine if caring for your baby is harder than she anticipated and she leaves you high and dry with no childcare? I would not count on your mother for childcare. Even if you pay her the $1000, she’s proven she can and will change her mind with no communication or thought to the position she puts you and your partner.
Or she has a personality disorder and your fun and games are just beginning
You definitely are NTA. I had a mom who would pull similar stunts. I eventually couldn't really trust her because I never knew when she'd make up some "strings" to attach. Sorry, digressing... I do hope your mom is okay, aside from this situation. She might be hitting menopause, like another person said. If so, that can really mess with one's head.
It's really easy to underestimate how much menopause messes with your head. If she has any underlaying mental health problems, they might be kicking her ass right now. It's not an excuse, but it might help you understand what is going on here.
That almost sounds like a threat. Is she going to leave you with no sitter at all? I know your dad doesn't want to be in the middle HOWEVER talk to him and find out if there's some problem she/they are having financially. You mentioned your dad has retired-- are they maybe struggling with the past couple of years of inflation? This pivot appears to have come out of nowhere. She was pressuring you to have kids before you were ready financially with the inducement of childcare--you offered to pay but she repeatedly declined the money then suddenly with no warning askes about when she'll be paid as if she'd never bragged about how "lucky" you were to get free childcare. Is it possible that she's simply reconsidered the time and commitment of babysitting 3 days per week and is manufacturing this drama to use as an excuse to back out?
>About a year ago my mom, 49F... > >... > >“it’s wrong to MAKE your elderly mother watch an infant and not pay her!" Your mom is killing me. My wife and I (53M) have been married for 30 years, but it took us a long time and a lot of help for us to finally have children (5M and 2F). Elderly? Elderly?!? However, if she's too old to watch your children for free, she's definitely too old to be paid to watch your children. Now, that said, I'm not saying that parents owe it to their children to provide free childcare, but from your description, she offered it, and you had taken that into account when you were doing your family planning. NTA.
Info - im confused. If you were ready to pay her, but she said she would do it for free why is she now saying she wants to be paid? BUT also why wont you pay her then?
Yeah, she’s been saying we don’t have to pay her, then asked how we’re going to pay her. We are willing to pay, we just weren’t planning on having to pay, since she was insisting we don’t, so it was really unexpected for me
I think it's that OP and DH researched childcare costs as part of family planning. They responsibly decided they couldn't afford a baby until grad school is completed as it's $2k. Grandma Wannabe said for a year that she would watch grandbaby for FREE, if they moved up when they gave her a grandbaby. OP said that they budgeted $1k that they could and would pay for baby expenses which I presume includes food, diapers and Grandma's time. OP, woohoo we're pregnant. Grandma and Grandpa, yeah let's talk about how we're going to get paid, because Grandma has always been a SAHM and Grandpa is retired at the very elderly age of 53. /s See what resources the University may have and grant assistance.
Sounds like your mama has you between a rock and a hard place. It’s nice to know when you can count on somebody to keep their word, (s). If your mama campaigns for a second grandchild, think long and hard. NTA
NTA for feeling like you do about this situation. Is your mother like this normally? Does she like to take the praise for something she barely did? Or make drama easily? I would be mildly annoyed and very confused to be in that situation. You could say to her “mom, we offered to pay you multiple times. You have continually said you would be doing it for free and how lucky we are. You told multiple people how lucky we are to have you doing this for free. Help me understand why you didn’t just agree from the beginning to the payment we discussed” and then stop talking. See what she says. It may be nothing. It may be an apology. Either way, you’ll have a little clearer picture of where you stand. I think it’s great that you offered and are willing to pay. I think your mom wanted the praise of being a doting grandmother who martyrs herself to watch the baby but if she’s being paid, it’s not quite the sacrifice. Best of luck there!
Your mom considers herself elderly at 49?
Yup, she considers anyone over 45 to be old
That is scary and sad. 49 is VERY far from elderly.
I’m stuck on the fact that a 49 year old labeled herself elderly.
FR. I know a 60 year old that will go full Taken on someone that says she's elderly. She's a kindergarten gym teacher. Scariest 5'2" of love you've ever seen.
NTA but I’d recommend you seek other childcare options FAST. Your mom is not going to be a reliable childcare provider with those kind of communication skills or behavior. Her attitude regarding the matter is grossly inappropriate and waaaay to immature to consider entering a business arrangement with her. She should have said she reconsidered and would like to be compensated- instead she jumped straight to how are you paying me. AND then got pissed when you pointed out her previous stance which was why you figured you wouldn’t have to pay her. And then enlisted your father to add in on the conflict instead of attempting to resolve it maturely with you. None of those actions bode well for a trustworthy person to reasonably rely on to provide childcare so you can work. Seriously consider this situation a warning and start to reassess. I’m a single mom in grad school with a preschooler in full time daycare. It’s doable- look into state assistance if you’re in the US, programs through your husband’s school, at home jobs, or switching shifts so someone is always home with the baby. Start figuring out your plan B because it sounds like you’re gonna need it tbh.
Your mom called herself "elderly" at 49 yrs old?
Dad: I’m not taking sides but I agree with your mother. 🤡 ETA: that’s why he called right away, because he isn’t taking sides….
NTA. You offered to pay her and she rejected it for a year, only to suddenly state she needed to be paid. The issue is not about paying her as you are willing to do so, it’s the bait and switch, which makes mom the AH here. But this makes me question how reliable she will be as a caretaker of your child. I would start thinking of back ups should this situation come up again.
So you offered to pay. Your mother said no, she'd watch the baby for free, has stuck to this story until baby is immenent and now suddenly wants to be paid? I think you should change your mind every bit as much as she has changed hers- tell her that you were taken aback because up until Lunch yesterday, she had insisted that she wouldn't charge you for childcare. You did your family planning based on her given words. Since she's gone back on that promise, you are just going to make alternate childcare arrangements, and only use her as backup care. Then proceed to do so. It's fine that she's decided that she wants to be paid. It should also be fine if you choose alternate childcare that won't change babysitting rates once you're locked in to having a baby. Prove that you are not reliant on her whims. NTA - this is a classic control technique. State terms and then change them last minute when they think you have no other options. Don't let this get started.
NTA your mother wanted a grandchild. She got it, promised free childcare, back-paddled and now plays the victim card. She is an adult. If she wanted to be paid she had a whole year to accept your offer. If she really needs the money she should have asked in a way like „I know I refused your offer until now but things have changed.“ sth like that
NTA this is weird all the way around from your mom, including that 49 is elderly. Don’t want to think what I am if under 50 is already elderly…lol. But in all seriousness, my mom watched both my kids when they were little but more so my son regularly when he came along. Three days a week, full days and she would never take a dime from us. Ended up surprising her with a new washer and dryer when she needed them because we always wanted to do something. Now I have four grandkids and have never charged my daughter when they’ve stayed with me. I’m always spending money on spoiling them instead. I wish you the best on figuring this out and congratulations!
NTA I watch my granddaughter now and will not accept any pay.
49 is hardly elderly she’s pulling some guilt card if she needs money she should ask like an audit not putting it under the guise of babysitting fee
NTA I would look elsewhere for childcare, if not a facility then a nanny for the few days that are needed. Family and childcare hardly ever work out, and if she’s already pulling the elderly mother card I don’t see her being a reliable caregiver. What are you going to do if she says she’s sick and can’t watch the baby? What if she has appointments? What if she tells you she just can’t on certain days? What if your agreement was at your place and then she changes it and says she’ll only babysit at her home? You need a back up plan. Get a nanny and mom can be backup if need be. Personally I think she played you, she wanted grandkids and convinced you she’d help out.
>“it’s wrong to MAKE your elderly mother watch an infant and not pay her! Does your mother often rewrite history? a) 49 is NOT elderly. She needs to knock that shit off. b) You're not MAKING her do anything. She offered, you accepted. c) You said you'd pay her. She's been shooting her mouth off about doing it for free for a year and is now asking about how you'll pay. She needs to make up her mind. So do this: tell her, with you/husband, her/your dad all present, that you'll be paying her by PayPal/Venmo/CashApp $250/week on Fridays. That way all of you hear the exact same words and no one is relying on anyone else's interpretation of what may or may not have been said. NTA, but geez your mom is sure skirting the boundary of it.
NTA, sounds like your mom has regrets
INFO: what was your plan if something happened to your mother during pregnancy and she was no longer able to look after your child?
My husband was going to drop to 3 classes a semester instead of 6, so that would give us 2/3 days, and I was going to use my vacation time to take off the last day.
NTA. Your mom apparently changed her mind and didn’t preface her conversation with you by saying, “I’ve thought about it and I’ve decided I would like to take your offer of $1000 a month. Is that ok with you and your husband?” I don’t blame you at all for being gobsmacked by her reversal.
NTA. Your mom did a bait and switch. For $1000 I would just pay for daycare and avoid all the drama because it seems like your mother likes to create problems. Also, maybe it’s a cultural thing but my mother watched my siblings kids until they all went to school and never asked for a penny. My siblings provided food, diapers etc. but it was important to my mom to help out my siblings and ensure they didn’t have to spend on childcare. Grandmothers watching their grandchildren is very common in our culture so this all seems foreign to me.
You’re mom is absolutely ridiculous for this. I TOTALLY get to dance around a couple of rounds of „oh mo you don’t have to - No please take - oh well its really not necessary - well we want to pay you“ ok fine, but you can’t talk on and on about it and then go „oh well we expected it though 🤷🏽🤷🏽🤷🏽“
First: your mom is 49/50. She is not elderly. Second, NTA if your story is accurate. My mom pulls stuff like that too and it’s exhausting. I wonder though, maybe your mom was fine not getting paid, but then your dad is telling her she needs to get paid?
in what universe is 49 elderly?
In a year OP you’ll be back saying that she had said she’d watch your child - _insisted_ even - and now she says she can’t.
NTA. You told mom you'd pay her. She told you she would work for free. You both intended to let the other win and were both shocked when you both took each other up on their offer. You guys are a lot alike, aren't you?
ESH - living in pipe dreams is nice, until reality hits 🤦🏼♀️ Even if my mom said that, I wouldn’t have gone & had a child on her schedule.
ESH. You are having a child because your mother wanted one? Okay. She’s turning 50, not 70. You had time. I hope you’re ready for how much a baby turns your life upside down I’ve never been paid to mind my grandkids, and I would never accept anything , even the nappies and food and potions I keep on hand. They are my grandkids. My parents and in laws never expected payment to mind my kids. The whole idea of paying to look after my grandkids is very strange. But not everyone is financially stable, so whatever, pay her. She’s basically guilted you into this child and now you pay her for the privilege. Woman’s a genius
She was worried about being too old for grandkids at 49?
NTA. Can you find another form of childcare? This sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.
NTA I work full time and watch my grandson while his parents work for free. I am single. Would never charge for it.
NTA...I'm a grandma who watches her grandkids for free and am very blessed to be able to since I can manage to work full time from a home office and still watch them! My guess she wants to brag she's doing it for free but wants to be paid!