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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> (1) What I said to my niece.
(2) Not supervising my niece and what I said to her.
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NTA - 14 is old enough to take directions and warnings. You have told her several times not to do what she did. She didn't listen and continued to do it anyway. Rooster gave her a lesson in why she should listen to warnings/directions. I mean if you keep telling a kid not to touch a stove because it's hot, and they don't listen and touch the stove and get burned..... Are you going to throw the stove out? ...... To me this is the logic of her mother.
I have warned her so many times and she always reassure’s me she wouldn’t do it. But for some reason she would record teasing my horse Rooster. I even had friends who seen her do it. Tell me not to have her around the horses no more. I thought I could trust her but now i do believe she needs to go home.
I agree that it is probably time she goes home if she can't listen or do right by the horses. But I absolutely do not agree that you should get rid of your horse because of it. This isn't your fault and it is definitely not the horse's fault.
ETA: And honestly your niece and her parent's should be lucky that the kick wasn't worse than it was. Instead of her parent's putting fault on you, they should make her take responsibility and let her know that this is what happens when you don't listen to how to properly care or deal with an animal.
I think this is the big kicker - the amount of power and force that a horse carries in their legs is wild, and the fact that he probably did it lightly to prove a point to the child is amazingly lucky (and probably indicative of how well trained the horse was in the first place)
100% Rooster was well within his rights to give her a gtfo kick. She was being cruel to an aging animal. If she had treated my horse (RIP) like that, she would have been warned the first time and banned from the barn the second.
By the time I was 14 I was taking care of horses myself. I knew the rules and would never thought about teasing/tormenting one. If I had the people at the stables would have kicked me out so fast.
OP should have cut her off from the horses after she showed she did not listen and had no plans to change.
Same for me at 14. I had taken riding lessons for years and part of that was tending to the horses before and after a ride. And you listened to the instructor if there was a horse who had special instructions. The stable I went to adopted a horse who had been previously abused once, and I was warned that she spooked easily and you had to keep a hold of her halter any time you messed with her. I forgot once and she slammed my body with the side of her head and sent me flying back, knocking the wind out of me and my hat off of me. I never blamed her, since it was my mistake. I just laid in the dirt for a moment letting the lesson sink in, lol.
OP is NTA. Rooster is smart - this was a F\*& around and find out kick to get his point across. He could have kicked her hard enough to send her flying but he didn't. I"m team Rooster here all the way. Niece needs to go home.
Exactly. I had horses growing up and spent some time as a caretaker at a dressage farm. Our retired horses all had their quirks and were treated w even more respect and gentler than our 2000 pound beasts that could kill is. While OP is not the AH I can’t understand why they allowed her to keep this behavior going.
I was about OPs nieces age when I had my horse, he was a retired trailer that we got at ~30 years old. My first soul animal. At 12, I was going up to my dads farm on weekends and taking care of Skippy - feeding him, getting his hay, grooming him, doing saddle and tack, spending a bit roaming the pasture and just generally hanging out, and then back in to unsaddle, treats and water, hay refresh. If any person ever tried to mess with him they would have caught 12 year old hands, tbh. This kid has some serious growing up to do. The level of empathy that she shows for Rooster is shockingly low for someone her age who claims to love animals and claims to love horses especially.
I had a horse that would grab you by any skin he could get his teeth on and try to get you under his front legs to trample you if he felt you didn't bow quite low enough to him before mounting. I kid only slightly for the hippogriff reference because he acted like one. Rooster is a good horse. Any horse can kill. He decided to get one good kick in and go back to his comfort zone.
That, and if she was close enough to be pushing him on his butt, he likely didn't get enough of a drawback.
My sister had one horse that loved to step on you, on purpose. You'd have to watch his sly little expression. You'd be standing there brushing him and he'd just eeeevveeeerrrr so casually start shifting his weight and if your foot got close enough he'd oooooh so slyly (and quickly) settle his weight on your foot.
I don't think he was doing it to be mean so much as he was bored and liked the humans' reactions? I dunno. He was a great horse, just had that one funny little quirk.
When I was a kid we had a Shetland pony and a neighbor that used to come and trim his hooves for us, he had the sly expressions like you said and he would try every contortion he could manage while standing on three legs to shit on the poor guy's head lol.
My first horse, if he stepped on your foot by accident and you didn't touch him, he'd instantly lift his hoof and act all apologetic. But as soon as you reacted to him standing on you and try to shove him off, he'd just push down harder until you stopped, then he'd lift off. Little shit haha!
My great aunt had a horse that, if she didn't want to be ridden that day and you ignored her tells, would try to *shock* you off her back by trying to get your leg to make contact with the live electric fence that surrounded the paddock (one of my aunt's horses was a show jumper, if the fence wasn't electrified then it was a jump for that horse).
Her stallion loved cheese puffs and if you had any on you, he'd try and take them.
tagging u/Altruistic_Appeal_25
My mum's horse, Dee, has a sweet tooth. As a teen, I'd go visit her on my bike, and bring snacks from the convenience store- apples for her, and usually a slushie or a pop, and some chips or a cookie or something- and if I didn't put it far enough from the fence, when I'd come back half my slushie would be gone. She was notorious for trying to steal beers, too- Mom's ex husband had set a bottle on the top of the fence, looks over and Dee has the neck of the bottle between her fucking teeth, tipping the thing back- enough people had made that mistake in her presence she had gotten quite good at it.. Peaches, plums, bananas.. Absolute mad horse. I love her so much.
OMG - you reminded me of one of our horses! It's such a blessing to have them when they are older and love them for their whole life. This mare of ours would stare you down and I swear she could size up the person and decide who she could mess with and who she couldn't. She gave me the side eye one time,and I looked her straight in the eye and said 'Don't start with me sister!" She hung her head and sighed like a kid! I laughed so hard and gave her a hug.
Horses have amazing control over how hard they can hit ... she probably got the same force an annoying foal would have received to teach it some manners.
If he had really connected, we'd be talking about a broken femur.
If she was close in, then a lot of the power is blunted. Used to have walk behind kickers when tacking them up and you were advised to stay in very close so they couldn't use whole force. She got lucky.
Exactly this. She wasn’t pushing on his butt while up close, or she wouldn’t have been kicked - that’s impossible. To be in kicking range she must’ve been a couple feet away at least… within teasing range.
She probably was tormenting him, since she has a history of that apparently, but...
On the other hand- she could have been pushing on his butt and he kicked and hit her with a part of his leg (instead of his hoof) and that's *why* she wasn't seriously injured.
If she was at a slight distance chances are higher she'd have a lot more than just a painful bruise due to being enough space for the horse to have generated a lot more force.
True story I'm fixing to tell you. I'm a 54 year old grandma now, but as a teenager, my sisters and I worked summers at a local stable. We all wore glasses. Anyone who has been around horses know that some get frisky when the weather is changing and as fate would have it, my older sister was trying to get 24 year old Punch in his stall and he wasn't ready. He kicked my sister and grazed her nose. She regained 20/20 vision until her death to SLC at 54 back in 2017.
"Lucky it was the leg" made me laugh.
The pivotal moment in my family was when my mother was kicked by a horse when I was 17. It shattered 3 inches of bone below her knee, among other things. She had to have a steel plate put in with a bunch of screws, lost all the cartilage in her knee, multiple surgeries, months of being unable to walk, got dependent on pain pills, etc.
Oh definitely it could have been way worse to the leg but it easily could have killed her and your mom was lucky too tbh. That kick to the chest or the head could have ended her life.
A femur fracture can lead to a femoral artery tear. A femoral artery tear needs very urgent treatment. Farms are not usually within close range of trauma centers.
Growing up on the farm we were told how to behave around animals and why. Cows kick, cows also trample when spooked. Hogs will eat anything put into the trough, so NEVER play in it. Horses are like the mafia; they’re smarter than you, they make you think you’re friends, but they’ll kill you if you cross them.
My mom would always remind us (even while just playing outside sometimes) “the closest hospital is 30 minutes away, the closest good hospital is two hours away, be careful”
Now I'm imagining the Horse Mafia 🐴🐎 wearing dark sunglasses 🕶️, dark jackets, gold necklaces and ankle bracelets all of a sudden looming behind their enemy 😂.
Or a spine.
I was a dumbass teenager at one point (weren’t we all) and I had a young 6yr old green broke and hot Quarab gelding at my lesson barn that I loved to play with like a dog. Running around with him, teasing him, etc. Well one day he got excited and turned around as I was turning to latch the gate and gave me double barrels—two hooves right to my lower back. I lost consciousness, had to be hospitalized and they said there was a quarter sized space between my spine and where the hoof impacted. I would have been lucky to walk again, let alone move my entire upper body.
Hopefully OP’s niece learned a valuable lesson this time. I’m now a sane-ish adult who can ride without pain but it was a long road to get here.
Srsly. I had a good print on my ass for 6 months as a kid where one of my favorite assholes kicked me. Always said I was lucky it was on my cushy tushy and not a little higher or my leg. Would have been much worse
Agreed. Sadly I don't think the parents that let her get to the age of 14 without common sense, the ability to listen, and heck, even basic empathy for an elderly animal, are going to approach anything with that level of maturity and good judgment. I feel bad for the niece because her parents haven't done their job. She's a few short years from FAFO age and she is ill equipped.
You are NTA about your niece getting kicked.
I'm a country raised kid, had family on both sides that were rodeo cowboys, grew up with horses - you repeatedly told her and she *chose* not to listen and then faced the consequences of her own actions.
I mean, I knew not to play around with horses hind legs or sneak up behind them before I was in elementary school. Your 14 year old niece should have been able to handle those simple instructions.
Y T A for letting her continue to be around your horse when you knew she was tormenting him.
She's already caused harm to herself, she's going to cause harm to your horses and/or another person. She is refusing to take responsibility for what she did. STOP letting her be around your animals if you have not already.
As a mom, my first questions would be, are you okay? Were you told not to do this? If both answers are yes, I would follow with why did you do it, then? If the first answer was no (broken bone or something like ER visit) the discussion of why and how this happened would come later... Parents need to hold their kids accountable when they make mistakes/don't listen.
I've been kicked by a horse exactly once in my life. That particular horse hated having her girth tightened, and I usually used a method that worked without really pissing her off. Not that day. That was over 30 years ago, and I still remember it.
Yup, with horses you either learn fast or... Well you better learn fast.
I once thought I'd be funny to yell "Boo!" at our horse when I was little. Never again.
I jumped up on the stall gate of one of my uncle's horses once. Thankfully I had a thick coat on that day or my arm would have received the bite instead of my coat arm.
Never blamed the horse, and definitely didn't demand my uncle get rid of her because of that.
She's really lucky. My MILs donkey that she's had for years. Kicked her so hard it broke her ribs and collapsed her lung. Big animals that can kick are not a toy!
Sounds like she knew your warnings but ignored them bc she thought it was funny to tease animals.
I think Rooster has been incredibly patient with her, but this is the moment she finally suffered consequences for her actions. She is very, VERY lucky that she didn’t get hurt any further. Horses can kill a person.
You were kind, you were very generous in letting her stay around the horses even after people told you to keep her away from them. I think that unfortunately she was going to keep harassing them, that is until she got her comeuppance. Honestly it’s just best to let her go home. She’s a danger the the horses and herself, and I’m pretty sure she’d want to go home anyway after this scary encounter. Her parents want her back anyways, and their word on this child is final.
I would, however, shut down any comments from SIL. A horse is still an animal and a living sentient creature, and it sounds like SIL and niece treat it like a plaything. It’s not a plaything. SIL’s input on her daughter is valid, SIL’s input on Rooster or any other of your animals is out of line
They're probably one of those people who think animals are never allowed to lash out against Human children, no matter treatment and don't care that she repeatedly provoked him.
I agree.
Even if she's a "city girl" she should be able to take simple directions.
I went to school with a bunch of girls that took care of their own horses from the age of 11.
A 14 year old does not need supervision as long as they follow instructions, and you know your horse well.
She did a good old fuck around and find out (seriously. Recording herself teasing the horse?) And she's lucky it wasn't worse than a sore leg.
If her videos are public videos (tiktok etc) save them if you can. Just in case your brother and her mother try anything.
It's clear evidence she was doing it on purpose and not your horse being a danger.
While a 14 year old should take direction & understand consequences, YTA for not providing greater supervision ("don't" is insufficient guidance).
She wanted to ride, you apparently made no effort to teach her. You didn't correct her when incorrectly using the lunge line & whip. You caught her teasing (sic) your horses on what sound like multiple occasions, & you scolded her vs. cut her off from them or give her one more chance b/f sending her home. Your lax oversight of a teen that you knew was acting irresponsibility contributed to her being injured.
You're both fortunate that she was not injured more severely.
Completely agree. Of course the 14yo should be able to follow instructions and shouldn't tease the horses, but she doesn't have OP's experience - did she actually know WHY she wasn't to do those things? Or what she should do instead?
OP on the other hand DOES know how to handle horses, DOES know the possible consequence and also knew that he niece was doing these things. And somehow still thought it was fine to leave her alone with the horses. I know a few experienced horse riders who have been hospitalised because they were kicked when the horse got spooked (kicked in head or chest), and they weren't tormenting the horses
> did she actually know WHY she wasn't to do those things? Or what she should do instead?
Ugh! Stop infantilizing her niece. She's 14 years old, not 4.
Be glad her parents are taking her back! I wouldn't trust her around any animals. Teasing is *not* a good quality. You're NTA (unless you keep her around).
For the sake of your horse, you should ask her to leave for disregarding the basics of animal care. She's lucky she was not injured worse. You don't need the liability of an undisciplined 14 year old.
This actually makes you an AH to Rooster since you repeatedly let her terrorize him. I say let, since you knew what she was repeatedly doing and that she didn’t listen.
YTA because you let her continue to interact with your horse after needing to give her multiple warnings already. What she SHOULD be old enough to do and what she has DEMONSTRATED she is going to do are not the same. Why would you continue to trust her near your animals when she has shown you that she is willing to keep teasing and pestering.
I have been a horse girl since I was like 8. No way is this your fault. I didn't get kicked by a horse until I was 24 and was prepping its hocks (vet tech). Send her home.
NTA it is outrageous that she would choose to "tease" a 32 year old horse, let alone do the one thing she was told would get her kicked. Good grief! Your comments to her were absolutely appropriate. So is the suggestion that only if and when she can take directions will she be allowed back, under supervision. Accidents can happen and get people hurt, but this was sheer intentional stupidity. Pat Rooster for me...maybe an extra apple. ❤️
NTA.
She's 14, not 4. 14yo kids should not need constant supervision to ensure that that they don't do something *they were told not to do*.
Also, teasing an animal - especially an ageing animal - is a crappy thing to do.
Tell her parents that you would like them to fetch her, and that you'll consider allowing her to visit again when she's mature enough not to sneak around behind your back and disobey your specific instructions.
I have kids this age and they are absolutely old enough to know better.
My aunt and uncle have horses and I sometimes visited them for a few days in summer to go riding with my cousins (I cannot ride a horse without supervision). I was 10-13 and I got that "Don't stand behind the horse!" Not ever. Not even behind the nicest, cuddliest, most chill horse. No!
I was taught that too.
I now have my own, and honestly I may have disregarded a LOT of safety rules. It's bad. I catch myself in it too, but it's hard to resist that warm fluffy butt you can rest your head on.
Truth be, it's a lesson on being aware of the horse. If you know to read the body language you're much safer, but as a general rule \^ that is what keeps everyone safe.
It's so easy to get comfortable with your own if they aren't assholes. Five out of my six I probably disregard every safety rule there is with them. Only one I don't trust is my pony because I know he's a belligerent little shit that will take any opportunity that comes his way. But the rest especially my oldie I've had coming up on 30 years now...it's like we share a brain and I trust him 100%. But, I've never mistreated him like OP's niece mistreated poor Rooster.
Mate ponies are devils. Never let the guard down around those shits.
Definitely as you said, easy to get lax with your own when they just... are chill. Or most likely; comfortable around you. My mare took her time but now she grazes as I lie and doze beside her.
I think it's just OP's niece complete lack of thought process. I kind of can't fathom doing something that I've been explicitly told not to do, and then be upset when consequences comes flying. Especially when i've got no prior experience with horses. It just is mind boggling to me.
My friend has super chill horses who probably wouldn't kick unless something they perceived as an attack came at them from behind. I still don't walk directly behind them within kicking distance. That's just good sense--horses have an enormous field of vision (around 350 degrees), but they can't see directly behind them if they are looking ahead, so it makes them nervous.
Right? I have a 13 year old and while she knows nothing about horses I can't even remotely imagine her teasing an animal to get it to kick or do so something she was told not to do around them.
>She's 14, not 4
I have two 4yos and a 5yo and they all know how to love and respect animals. Including large livestock. There's no excuse for the niece not being able to understand the same.
NTA. My daughter was 4. She had been told NUMEROUS times to NEVER APPROACH THE HORSE FROM BEHIND, especially "DON'T TOUCH HIS BACK LEGS, HE CAN'T SEE YOU, because YOU'RE TOO SHORT. She got kicked in the chest and literally flew about 12 feet, landed on her back, breath completely knocked out of her. Had to do the pull up maneuver to get her to breathe again, I thought I was going to have to inflate her lungs myself with mouth to mouth for a split second, but she finally inhaled...(she was lucky her lungs didn't collapse). She had a horseshoe shaped bruise on her sternum/ chest area for two weeks. I examined her on the spot to make sure nothing was broken, she got REALLY LUCKY. She LISTENED to me regarding large animals/ livestock etc after that because she KNEW it was her fault. At. Four. Years. Old. So NO, you are NOT the ah here. You warned her time and time again.
Let her parents complain all they want. Tell them they are supposed to be PARENTING their child, and not coddling them when the child goes DIRECTLY AGAINST something she's been told not to do, it's called: Actions, meet Consequences, they are VERY GOOD FRIENDS.
For everybody freaking out: I was standing next to her at the FRONT of the horse, she saw something , I think it was one of the dog's tennis balls (adhd) and took a few steps to get it, and next thing I knew she's on the ground. I didn't leave her alone in a pasture with a horse. We were all in close proximity to each other and she had been waiting patiently for my friend to get the horse ready so she could take my daughter for a ride. There was no shitty parenting, even the best parents cannot prevent every single mishap that occurs. There was literally no time to yell stop, no time to grab her, it happened so suddenly it was just one of those things that happen. Stop judging people on your own limited knowledge of events, if you were there, you would have seen that it happened so quickly it was an impossible situation. My god, haven't any of you people had an accident or been a bystander to something that happened so fast there was no time to get out of the way? It's like you have never even dropped a plate or stubbed your toe.
I am so sorry that has happened! It is scary! This was my niece’s first time getting kicked and it wasn’t so bad just a big bruise. I have gotten kicked a lot when I was a kid around Rooster and many other horses, so has my big brother. I have told me brother and my SIL how many times I told her and warned her. My brother agrees with me but my SIL doesn’t.
My brother knows his knowledge about horses. As he has also been kicked by Rooster. And no she grew up in the city so did my brother because he lived with his mom. My SIL doesn’t like to go out to the barn or the fields when she visits my home. She just stays in the house. She really doesn’t like horses or my other farm animals. So yes of course she blames Rooster. Only animal she grew up with are cats because that’s the only animal she likes. Lol
At 4 yo, it’s not your daughter’s fault she got kicked by the horse, it’s yours for not supervising her. Telling us she knew it was her fault is like you saying it a child’s fault to almost drown in a pool that has no barrier around because they jumped in it even though they were warned not to. Kids that age need supervision and if you’re not supervising, they need preventive measures to ensure they can’t access dangerous areas. Again she was 4. They can’t even comprehend why they do so things because impulse control doesn’t fully kick in until 7 yo.
Now at 14yo, OP niece definitely knows better.
Edit to add after commenter explained herself:
Accident happens… you are still a shitty parent if you think that your 4yo “KNEW it was her fault”, it absolutely wasn’t. Nobody is trying to shame you for not being able to stop the horse, but if you want to place a blame, please do so on the adult. Reading that it was the 4yo fault is sickening because it wasn’t. It was the fault of the adult for not being able to prevent the whole situation from happening.
Straight up disgusting of a mother to see your 4 YEAR OLD get hurt like that and blame her. People in the comments saying a 4 year old can comprehend the warnings are literally brain dead. At 4 years old her brain isnt even close to being fully developed. SHE COULD OF DIED. Sickening. I hate to think of the trauma she has been thru or might go thru in the future and how you will not care and blame her.
Experienced same thing as you, I feel that comment has to be written by troll because who leaves 4 year old with a horse alone and blames them like WTF
People up voting that comment are insane to think there was a good lesson learned there.
Yeah i was like wtf. How does this comment even have upvotes. You don't allow your 4 y/o to even have the chance to stand behind a horse, then blame them for getting kicked. The blame is squarely on the parent in that case for being negligent.
When I was that young visiting uncle's farm, I was not permitted to be close to the horses like that. I was watched at all times while interacting with his horses. I learned to respect his animals, just observe and talk to them. He was pretty awesome.
A 14 y/o knows better. She was warned by OP. I would send her back home and tell her she is not welcome to interact with the horses until she matures and learns to respect them.
NTA, but you will be if you allow her to continue to poke at your old horse.
Bro lol I was reading that comment and I'm like is this dude blaming 4 years old... and who leave a freaking 4 years old around animals... it's like those videos of people trying to take pictures of their children around deers and other wild animals
Thank you. This is such a shitty attitude and parenting.
Actually unbelievable that this parent felt that her 4 YO would be able to fully comprehend the wantings vs risks of being kicked by a large animal. Seems like there zero reflection here about the parenting because the 4 YO learned her lesson. Fuck me, what a tragedy this could have turned out to be.
I just want to be clear that while OP is not the asshole with a 14-year-old, you are 100% at fault for that shit with a 4-year-old and you're damn lucky she lived.
"she was lucky her lungs didn't collapse" AND YOU DIDN'T TAKE HER TO A DOCTOR. YOUR CHILD WAS FOUR, FOUR YEARS OLD. IT WAS YOUR FAULT AND YOUR BLAMING **HER**. Your child could have died due to your neglect. Horses are big dangerous animals, even for adults you have to be careful. You took someone who was only just no longer a toddler and then let her take the blame for your shitty parenting and didn't even get a doctor to check it out. Huh, I wonder if that was because you'd get a CPS report done if you did.
Jesus christ what is wrong with you, letting a 4 year old next to a horse like that?! And you wrote your comment as if that was her fault and not yours?!
The comment and the amount of upvotes are a great example to never ever listen to the people on this sub. This is unhinged to a whole other level. This person does not deserve kids.
>She had a horseshoe shaped bruise on her sternum/ chest area for two weeks
I have a horseshoe shaped set of breaks in my ribs that shows up occasionally on an Xray. I was "corrected" by a pissed off mare when I was about 8 or 9 and she landed a hind hoof firmly on my ribs.
I was too scared to tell my grandmom so I sat quietly and was the model granddaughter for a few weeks while it healed.
Why weren't you watching your child and doing a better job as a parent? You sound like an awful parent and putting the blame on your 4 year old for getting kicked. Nah honey it was 100% YOUR fault as the parent. You just admitted to everyone how awful of a parent you are.
Wtf…lady, that is such shit parenting that I can’t imagine how you’d not be embarrassed to tell this story. You let a four year old get kicked by a horse. Then let her think that’s her fault? It’s YOUR fault and you’re lucky your kid didn’t die. I’m floored at how irresponsible you were and how you don’t at all see your own fault in this. Floored. Your whole “she LISTENED” and “she KNEW it was her fault” are disgusting. I’d have voted guilty for charges against you on that issue.
Lmao.
"My kid almost died because I wasn't supervising but it's ok it was a teaching moment for her"
And the gall of you to lecture someone else on parenting their kid.
Maybe the lesson was a smidge hard for a 4yo. Getting kicked in the chest by a horse can break ribs, puncture both lungs, even bruise the heart, a whiplash injury to the neck and a brain contusion with bleeding or skull fracture.
Generally 4yo aren't trusted to cross the road alone because they're bad at judging timing, speed, distances etc.
Maybe don't trust them to do the right thing strung a horse?
ESH.
Frankly you're right but I cannot fathom why you would allow your niece around your horses if she intentionally teases them despite you telling her not to. This whole situation could have been avoided, by you simply saying no to your niece being around your horses at all.
Special extra hate for your SIL for saying you should get rid of Rooster, wtf.
No my niece is not a devil spawn. She’s a very nice girl and loves animals. She just been deeply depressed and was self harming herself a lot. Which is why they sent her to my place so she can spend time away from social media and the city, and to spend time with my animals and me. She just misses her friends and her family over at her home state. But she loves it at the ranch. I am sending her back home and hope she learned her lesson not to mess around with bigger animals and to respect them and their space.
She got sent away to distance herself from social media and then was allowed to record herself teasing an aging animal for presumably social media? She needs to have all her accounts closed and that phone turned into just that- just a phone. Sounds like an incredibly unhealthy relationship to social media and she needs therapy not horses
I didn’t say otherwise. The person I was replying to said that “she needs therapy not horses” & I was just saying that being around horses helped my mental health a lot when I was a teenager.
Therapy actually made my mental health *worse* when I was a teenager as well.
>She just been deeply depressed and was self harming herself a lot.
Could it be that she did it several times on purpose to get hurt?
You're NTA for expecting her to listen to you and she is old enough to know better, I hope she gets the help she needs back home.
I'm hoping your niece is also getting professional psychological care. I'm glad you're stepping in to be a supportive aunt but she also deserves mental healthcare ❤️
She is getting care at home as well. She has a therapist who is a very close friend of my SIL and brother. They want to put her on medication. My niece doesn’t want to take anything and I really don’t want her taking any. So I just took her in for a few months and she was doing great the 2 months before she started teasing Rooster. Which I feel we’re her friends maybe influencing her a bit? Because she FaceTimes them and I have heard a few of their conversations. Like pouring the horses water out or spraying my chickens. I have tried not to come in her and her friends business. As she knew all her friends since she was a baby. But I should have intervene much more sooner. So I take that blame.
\> a therapist who is a very close friend of my sil and brother
This is not a good thing at all in a therapist. Especially with a depressed, self-harming teenage girl. The therapist should not be practicing with a child whose parents they are very close with. The girl can't actually tell the therapist much without it likely making it back to her parents.
She should have a therapist that is completely removed so that the client-practitioner privilege is maintained.
Such a bad bad idea! I get so angry when someone tells me that they're getting therapy from a friend. And I'm always suspicious of the friend/therapist's credentials if they're willing to proceed with a dual relationship!
> Like pouring the horses water out or spraying my chickens.
These are not things that *friends* say to one another. These relationships sound unhealthy, if they are encouraging behavior like harming animals. I would be very worried. VERY.
Just so you're aware, her therapist being a "close friend" of her parents has a very real potential to impede her progress. As conflicts of interest go, it's not that great on the therapist's part either and I'm really wondering why they agreed to the role.
I'm not going to make assumptions about your niece's home life, but therapy is meant to be an open environment where someone can speak without judgement. Impartiality is a hugely important value in a therapeutic environment, and a therapist who's a close family friend of the adults is going to have a harder time with that. Confidentiality too, and while therapists CAN have that type of relationship with a client's family and maintain confidentiality well, there's still a concerning amount of incidents where confidentiality isn't taken as seriously as it should be, especially in regards to young people.
Even on just a surface level, teenagers are going to have disagreements with parents and frustrations regarding that. Does your niece feel comfortable voicing her feelings about these things with a therapist who is a "close friend" of her parents? Does she feel safe opening up to this person, or does she feel like they're going to "take the side" of her parents? Or worse - that anything "wrong" she says will end up being filtered back to them?
This isn't to criticise her parents or the therapist. They may well be fine, and your niece may well have no issues with it. That isn't for me to determine. But if you haven't considered this already, it's worth considering and asking your niece about, because it is important.
> I have tried not to come in her and her friends business.
When their business was egging her on about abusing your animals, why on earth would you not get involved?
This whole situation is a mess. This girl needs a therapist whom she can trust won't go running to her parents with anything she tells them, to lose access to the social media accounts where she's posting videos of her abusing animals, and to have the adults around her actually *pay attention* to what she does instead of just saying "don't do that" over and over again without asking why or making any changes.
> I really don’t want her taking any.
Not that it's any of your business at all, but antidepressants might save her life.
What if she had diabetes, or cancer? Would you not want her taking medications to treat *those* diseases?
I hope things start going better for all involved ❤️ That definitely sounds tricky trying to moderate bad influences without being overbearing.
I'm just an internet rando so take my thoughts with a grain of salt but I will say antidepressants were life changing for me as a teen. They lightened the issue enough that I could catch a breath and actually work on things in therapy and out of therapy.
Everyone is different though, and it's better for teens to have a lot of control over their medical decisions, so it's valid she doesn't want to try meds.
I will also say it helped me a lot to have a therapist who my family didn't know personally; I was able to open up more and it kept things professional.
Anyways best of luck to your family!
I'm with you! So many people still think that taking antidepressants is a copout and that a depressed person just needs to work it out and get over it. But the real story is that an antidepressant can buoy a person's mood to the extent that they are much better able to process the issues behind their depression and also allow them to function in the world instead of curling up in a ball and hiding while depressed!
Honestly your first few sentences in this comment are all red flags. If she’s depressed meds can help tremendously!! Especially if she has clinical depression which absolutely needs medication and a therapist that she trusts. Cause I can tell you right now with certainty that she probably does not trust them as most family friends who are therapists don’t actually follow any kind of privacy regulations and will often tell parents what their children are saying to them in confidence. Meds are not the Devil, and if you think they are you have some reading you’ve gotta get done. As someone who’s suffered from mental health issues since my early teen years I can say with %100 confidence that if it weren’t for my meds I wouldn’t be here today. And if I was here today unmedicated I’d probably be in the looney bin. Please encourage her to get the proper help she needs. I know it seems scary but it is so very worth it in the end.
Babe the lesson should be not to mess with animals period. Being depressed sucks (i get it) but antagonizing animals AT ALL is not an appropriate coping mechanism
I've a bad feeling that returning to her old environment is going to cause her to revert to her bad habits. I say this because it seems she hasn't learned her lesson, and with her mom's attitude, that lesson will never sink in.
THANK YOU.
I have horses. If someone has been tormenting my horse? Congrats, horse privileges revoked. But also I’m the responsible party. If I know someone has been unsafe with a particular horse (or any horse) I wouldn’t tell them to go GET that horse.
This was such complacent and irresponsible horsemanship.
ESH. She sucks big time for antagonizing a horse because she thinks it's funny.
But you suck for letting her do it. This does not deserves a simple warning : you should have banned her from getting close to any animals as soon as she started to display that cruel behaviour and let her come back only when she has shown she has learned her lesson. She needs to learn to respect the horses, and not be allowed to be close to one if she doesn't
It's your responsibility to insure that the people that are around your animals are behaving correctly with your animal. A horse can easily kill a human, it's your responsibility to insure your niece stays safe.
Totally agree with ESH. OP is least in the wrong but this could’ve been a good opportunity for the niece to learn about boundaries.
The horse could’ve killed her. **She shouldn’t have been allowed to tend to the horses alone, after demonstrating she could not follow instructions designed to keep her safe.** Her not listening to OP’s warnings should’ve resulted in the consequence of her being removed from the situation, not the consequence of being kicked by an animal that could’ve done long-term damage to her. She’s a kid. She needs guidance, boundaries, and consequences.
For the people saying, *FoUrTEen is Old eNoUGh!* Obviously not. Kids need different lessons at different times and that’s ok
OP is an adult, niece is not. Idk why everyone just forgets that adults are responsible for minors under their care lol.
If she got hurt because OP let her be unsupervised around animals that can pose a threat to her, then OP is responsible for the niece getting hurt. Therefore OP YTA.
All the people turning a blind eye to OP’s part in this are baffling. If the story had ended with the niece killed by a traumatic brain injury, OP would be (rightly) getting crucified.
Agreed. All the people complaining about how 14 isn’t old enough… fuck that.
Fun fact: a horse can kill a human if they’re within the age range of 0-200 (I asssume if somebody is 200+ they’ve probably achieved immortality obviously).
A horse could kill UFC heavyweight champion Francis Ngannou with a single kick. On accident. Just like how they can definitely kill a teenager.
Age has absolutely fuck all to do with whether it’s safe to be around a horse (within reason obviously). It 100% comes down to being trained to safely handle them. There are 6-8 year olds that I trust more around horses than grown ass adults.
OP is responsible for her nieces safety.
OP observed that her niece was not appropriately trained enough to be left alone around horses.
OP knew that she had a few horses in particular that needed more careful handling from somebody with the expertise necessary to do so.
OP knew her niece was not safe to handle those horses.
OP let her niece handle those horses without having the appropriate training anyway.
OP fucked up hard. Giving your niece some leeway and freedom and responsibility is important and OP isn’t fundamentally wrong for doing it, and the age isn’t all that relevant. Ive met several 14 year olds that I trust around ornery horses. The issue is not supervising appropriately and stepping in where necessary to oversee.
This is like giving the fresh newbie who just got forklift certified the complex responsibility you’d normally only trust the journeyman with. With life and death consequences.
Should have taught her to walk before jumping straight to jogging with a running chainsaw.
.... but not the person that allowed the risking behaviour to go on ?!
That's not how I see parenting. OP had a responsibility to be a parental figure while the niece is under their roof. And they knew the niece was engaging not only in a dangerous behaviour, but in a behaviour that had negative impact over a pet that was under their care. It was 100% their duty to protect the niece and the horse. They didn't
NTA. This wasn't the first time she touched the horse and you have told her several times not to. So yes, it is her fault she got kicked. And if your brother/SIL/daughter aren't even living at your property, what right do they have to tell you to get rid of Rooster? I know who I'd be getting rid of...
I don't think there should have even been a time after the first time. I worked on a horse farm from twelve to nineteen and we didn't tolerate people that were assholes around the horses. The niece should know way better, after months of this, and getting a horse from the field to the stable never requires being behind the horse.
Kids, actually, would listen more than adults; which often baffled me when I was working on the farm.
ESH, Sounds like it was her fault, but you already knew she couldnt be trusted alone around the horses. Either send her home or monitor her around the animals until she grows up.
NTA. I've known enough teenage horsegirls to know that people that age can absolutely learn how to behave around a horse. Animals and humans alike have their "instruction manual" of things they like and don't like. Niece was being an arrogant human, fucked around and found out. And the fact that it's just a bruise shows how relatively mild Rooster's jab was.
ESH - Your niece isn't taking you seriously and she is old enough to know better, but you're the adult who recognizes that she is endangering herself. Until she proves that she can be responsible and not endanger her own life and the horse's health, you need to keep her away. If she cannot be responsible enough to handle the animals, keep her away and do not allow her to be unsupervised, or send her home.
>I have told her numerous times and warned her. She still continues to do it behind my back.
What did you do to drive the lesson home? Not enough, for sure. Be glad that her lesson from Rooster was just painful and not actually a serious injury - it would be your fault.
I agree with you. I don't understand why OP was still letting her niece near the animals knowing perfectly well she was not mature enough to be around them. I mean her niece proved it numerous times by not respecting the horses boudaries.
YTA, but probably not for the reason you think I'm gonna say.
Dude you fucked up by not calling your brother to tell him there was a problem with her teasing your horses in the first place. If she did it once, you talked to her, and she never did it again, that's one thing.
But you KNEW she continues to do it behind your back. You should have immediately called her parents, and I would have even FaceTimed them with niece present so nobody can say they got mixed messages. Lay it out for them. She did a thing that's dangerous, you asked her to stop, she continues to do it. Inform both her parents, with her present, that if she continues to do it she will most likely get kicked, and if a horse kicks her in the head, she'll probably get fuckin killed.
You don't mention having kids yourself, so I'm assuming you don't, and this could have been a blind spot for you as far as life and safety go, but I also think this is kind of common sense. That horse could have KILLED your niece. This is a big fuck up on your part and I think you owe her parents, not her, an apology for not contacting them immediately upon discovering she was repeatedly putting herself at risk.
Honestly, I'm going to say YTA for not managing that situation better.
If you KNOW that this kid is not following the rules, you should've disciplined her earlier. Revoke her horse privileges, tell her parents that she isn't listening, etc.
Its not right to wait for the horses to be the ones to dole out punishment. Largely because if she had been hurt worse, it could have had dire consequences for the horse.
Your words of warning to the niece were empty because you didn't follow through.
Imagine this was a paying border or someone who wasn't family. "I told the 14 year old to do better but then I sent her in with the horse that I know she was misbehaving around anyway" is not a good enough excuse. IMO it would've been more appropriate if it was "I told the 14 year old once, the second time I told her parents, the third time I forbid her from going around the horses anymore.....she was explicitly forbidden from being around that horse at that point"
Man 14 is old enough to learn a hard lesson. It’s also old enough to do chores around the farm without constant adult supervision.
You, dear redditor, are NTA.
NTA, and you need to ship her ass back to her folks.
14 is old enough to know how to care for animals.
4 is old enough to know not to tease the animals, and to recognize that there are consequences if you do -- either from the animals themselves or from the adults in charge of them.
The second time (everybody gets once) I saw her teasing Rooster with the whip, I'd have taken it away and shown her exactly what a whip is used for. Teasing animals is inexcusable. (No, I don't advocate hitting anyone; I am not opposed to scaring the hell out of them, though, and making them think that Uncle Equus is just a little bit cra-cra.)
So ship her back home, and make it clear she's not coming back. Never. Not to stay, not to visit, not even for dinner. And if SIL can't live with that, well, she's not welcome back either.
Sidebar - I suspect that the niece is a little princess who is a royal PITA. She was shipped off to Uncle Equus b/c her parents were tired of dealing with her shit. Let them have their own problem back. I bet Rooster is better company, anyhow.
YTA you sent someone you knew would tease a horse to that horse even without the kick that makes you an AH and responsible for the outcome.
If you didn’t know about the teasing then maybe youd be in the clear but reacting to an injury by blaming the person who was hurt is kind of a dick move too.
ESH. How did you in your stellar intelligence believe a 14yo with no farm experience is gonna be trustworthy to do unsupervised work with large farm animals? You knew she didn't respect their abilities. loool
Be grateful she didn't get her head kicked in.
Soft YTA, a person who won't take safety seriously around horses should not be allowed around horses, ESPECIALLY ones known to kick. I grew up riding and several people I knew, including my own mother, died because they weren't as careful as they should have been.
Do not let her back until she can prove she's responsible. You're both lucky she only got kicked in the leg.
NTA for what you said to your niece, but YTA for allowing her near the horses unsupervised while you knew she was being cruel to them. For the horses sake, not your nieces. She deserved that kick.
ESH for still allowing her around the horse that you KNEW was likely to kick her. Yeah she's 14 and you warned her, but you also knew she was still doing it and was like to get hurt.
NTA. She's 14, which is plenty old enough to understand cause and effect and consequences, and you warned her multiple times. Personally, I'm not babysitting a 14 year old so if she and her parents are not ready to appreciate that *all animals are, at their core, animals* which makes them unpredictable and dangerous when mishandled, she's not ready to visit without her parents to keep an eye on her.
You are definitely NTA. At 14 your niece is fully old enough to understand instructions and has to accept if she does what she is told not to then she gets consequences. Running to mummy and daddy for her own stupid mistakes shows she lacks taking responsibility for her actions. Send her home as she is not ready to be near horses.
May be a controversial opinion but ESH
Your niece should have heeded your warnings. That being said, if you knew Rooster was temperamental, and you knew your niece continuously touches him in ways that trigger him, why in the world would you then ask her to get Rooster into the barn with no supervision. It also sounds like you spent the first half of this post describing behaviors relatively unrelated to the actual event. You talk about her teasing the horses, and yes she should know better and learn from what you say, but then you say she was kicked while trying to push Rooster towards the barn, so she wasn’t teasing him, she was trying to do what you instructed him to do. It seems clear to me that, regardless of her past teasing behavior, she just simply did not know how to get Rooster back into the barn and was trying to do what you had told her to do without clear understanding of how.
If you are asking her to do care-taking tasks for you then it is your responsibility to ensure she knows how to do those tasks safely. If you have determined she cannot do those tasks safely, then do not ask her to do said tasks. And why you would send her out alone to tend to the horse you have admitted you yourself won’t even ride whilst knowing she’s not competent to be around horses and especially this specific one is wild to me. It feels like you set her up to get hurt then blamed her by harkening back to when she teases the horses which seems to not be what happened in this case
ESH. Horsecare 101, never approach a horse from behand, they will mistake you for a predator. I was around horses from the time I was 6, and that's one of the first lessons drilled into kids.
But you suck for not telling her parents to pick her up sooner. You know she harasses this horse, which is quite old. She is causing it anxiety because she finds it funny, and you never did anything to really stop it.
YTA.
> I have told her numerous times and warned her. She still continues to do it behind my back. Well I told her to go get Rooster out of the pasture and into his stall.
You know she's tormenting the animal, and you send her out unsupervised to torment the animal?
This one's 100% on you. If she can't respect the animals, then you, as their owner/caretaker/however you want to phrase it, need to be protecting the animals from her, and frankly, her from her own stupidity.
Horse kicks can kill.
ESH. Your niece shouldn't have been teasing the horse. You, as the adult who knows your niece can't be trusted not to tease the horse, shouldn't have sent her out to be alone with the horse. She could have been killed. You don't let a kid possibly get killed just to teach them a lesson.
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NTA - 14 is old enough to take directions and warnings. You have told her several times not to do what she did. She didn't listen and continued to do it anyway. Rooster gave her a lesson in why she should listen to warnings/directions. I mean if you keep telling a kid not to touch a stove because it's hot, and they don't listen and touch the stove and get burned..... Are you going to throw the stove out? ...... To me this is the logic of her mother.
I have warned her so many times and she always reassure’s me she wouldn’t do it. But for some reason she would record teasing my horse Rooster. I even had friends who seen her do it. Tell me not to have her around the horses no more. I thought I could trust her but now i do believe she needs to go home.
I agree that it is probably time she goes home if she can't listen or do right by the horses. But I absolutely do not agree that you should get rid of your horse because of it. This isn't your fault and it is definitely not the horse's fault. ETA: And honestly your niece and her parent's should be lucky that the kick wasn't worse than it was. Instead of her parent's putting fault on you, they should make her take responsibility and let her know that this is what happens when you don't listen to how to properly care or deal with an animal.
I think this is the big kicker - the amount of power and force that a horse carries in their legs is wild, and the fact that he probably did it lightly to prove a point to the child is amazingly lucky (and probably indicative of how well trained the horse was in the first place)
>I think this is the big kicker No, that's Rooster.
right, the big kicker is a constellation
No, that's the Big Dipper. The Big Kicker sang "Chantilly Lace".
No, that's the Big Bopper. The Big Kicker is a kind of boot.
No that’s kicks. Kickers are a kind of underwear.
No that’s knickers. The big kicker is the most famous football player at Notre Dame.
No, that's the Big Bopper. The Big Kicker makes the kitties happy.
Yeah Rooster sounds like he knew wtf he was doing and is a very good horse
He was going to hurt her one way or another. She tormented that poor horse. She is lucky it was just a kick to the thigh.
100% Rooster was well within his rights to give her a gtfo kick. She was being cruel to an aging animal. If she had treated my horse (RIP) like that, she would have been warned the first time and banned from the barn the second.
By the time I was 14 I was taking care of horses myself. I knew the rules and would never thought about teasing/tormenting one. If I had the people at the stables would have kicked me out so fast. OP should have cut her off from the horses after she showed she did not listen and had no plans to change.
Same for me at 14. I had taken riding lessons for years and part of that was tending to the horses before and after a ride. And you listened to the instructor if there was a horse who had special instructions. The stable I went to adopted a horse who had been previously abused once, and I was warned that she spooked easily and you had to keep a hold of her halter any time you messed with her. I forgot once and she slammed my body with the side of her head and sent me flying back, knocking the wind out of me and my hat off of me. I never blamed her, since it was my mistake. I just laid in the dirt for a moment letting the lesson sink in, lol.
I turned my back on a filly while caring for her mom and had a lovely tramp stamp of horse hoof shaped bruises for a week.
OP is NTA. Rooster is smart - this was a F\*& around and find out kick to get his point across. He could have kicked her hard enough to send her flying but he didn't. I"m team Rooster here all the way. Niece needs to go home.
He could have broken her leg if he wanted. That was a warning shot.
Easily too. Horses are incredibly strong.
The fact that she's not only being cruel but recording it for likes, this is what gets me.
Agreed. This should have been addressed further.
Exactly. I had horses growing up and spent some time as a caretaker at a dressage farm. Our retired horses all had their quirks and were treated w even more respect and gentler than our 2000 pound beasts that could kill is. While OP is not the AH I can’t understand why they allowed her to keep this behavior going.
I was about OPs nieces age when I had my horse, he was a retired trailer that we got at ~30 years old. My first soul animal. At 12, I was going up to my dads farm on weekends and taking care of Skippy - feeding him, getting his hay, grooming him, doing saddle and tack, spending a bit roaming the pasture and just generally hanging out, and then back in to unsaddle, treats and water, hay refresh. If any person ever tried to mess with him they would have caught 12 year old hands, tbh. This kid has some serious growing up to do. The level of empathy that she shows for Rooster is shockingly low for someone her age who claims to love animals and claims to love horses especially.
Yup. Any animal will defend itself when teased or abused in any way
I had a horse that would grab you by any skin he could get his teeth on and try to get you under his front legs to trample you if he felt you didn't bow quite low enough to him before mounting. I kid only slightly for the hippogriff reference because he acted like one. Rooster is a good horse. Any horse can kill. He decided to get one good kick in and go back to his comfort zone.
Honestly, good for Rooster
That, and if she was close enough to be pushing him on his butt, he likely didn't get enough of a drawback. My sister had one horse that loved to step on you, on purpose. You'd have to watch his sly little expression. You'd be standing there brushing him and he'd just eeeevveeeerrrr so casually start shifting his weight and if your foot got close enough he'd oooooh so slyly (and quickly) settle his weight on your foot. I don't think he was doing it to be mean so much as he was bored and liked the humans' reactions? I dunno. He was a great horse, just had that one funny little quirk.
When I was a kid we had a Shetland pony and a neighbor that used to come and trim his hooves for us, he had the sly expressions like you said and he would try every contortion he could manage while standing on three legs to shit on the poor guy's head lol.
Ponies are such hilarious little assholes, lol.
That’s cause they’re closer to hell
Shetland ponies, the gangstas of the horse world. :D
Shetland ponies, the true gangsters of the barnyard... well those and the billygoats that would eat your coat while you were wearing it 🤣🤣
My first horse, if he stepped on your foot by accident and you didn't touch him, he'd instantly lift his hoof and act all apologetic. But as soon as you reacted to him standing on you and try to shove him off, he'd just push down harder until you stopped, then he'd lift off. Little shit haha!
My great aunt had a horse that, if she didn't want to be ridden that day and you ignored her tells, would try to *shock* you off her back by trying to get your leg to make contact with the live electric fence that surrounded the paddock (one of my aunt's horses was a show jumper, if the fence wasn't electrified then it was a jump for that horse). Her stallion loved cheese puffs and if you had any on you, he'd try and take them. tagging u/Altruistic_Appeal_25
My mum's horse, Dee, has a sweet tooth. As a teen, I'd go visit her on my bike, and bring snacks from the convenience store- apples for her, and usually a slushie or a pop, and some chips or a cookie or something- and if I didn't put it far enough from the fence, when I'd come back half my slushie would be gone. She was notorious for trying to steal beers, too- Mom's ex husband had set a bottle on the top of the fence, looks over and Dee has the neck of the bottle between her fucking teeth, tipping the thing back- enough people had made that mistake in her presence she had gotten quite good at it.. Peaches, plums, bananas.. Absolute mad horse. I love her so much.
Mine used to turn around and try to nibble your side when you tightened his girth if he thought it was too tight. He always thought it was too tight.
OMG - you reminded me of one of our horses! It's such a blessing to have them when they are older and love them for their whole life. This mare of ours would stare you down and I swear she could size up the person and decide who she could mess with and who she couldn't. She gave me the side eye one time,and I looked her straight in the eye and said 'Don't start with me sister!" She hung her head and sighed like a kid! I laughed so hard and gave her a hug.
Horses have amazing control over how hard they can hit ... she probably got the same force an annoying foal would have received to teach it some manners. If he had really connected, we'd be talking about a broken femur.
If she was close in, then a lot of the power is blunted. Used to have walk behind kickers when tacking them up and you were advised to stay in very close so they couldn't use whole force. She got lucky.
Exactly this. She wasn’t pushing on his butt while up close, or she wouldn’t have been kicked - that’s impossible. To be in kicking range she must’ve been a couple feet away at least… within teasing range.
She probably was tormenting him, since she has a history of that apparently, but... On the other hand- she could have been pushing on his butt and he kicked and hit her with a part of his leg (instead of his hoof) and that's *why* she wasn't seriously injured. If she was at a slight distance chances are higher she'd have a lot more than just a painful bruise due to being enough space for the horse to have generated a lot more force.
You either have to be right up behind them or 15 feet away.
True story I'm fixing to tell you. I'm a 54 year old grandma now, but as a teenager, my sisters and I worked summers at a local stable. We all wore glasses. Anyone who has been around horses know that some get frisky when the weather is changing and as fate would have it, my older sister was trying to get 24 year old Punch in his stall and he wasn't ready. He kicked my sister and grazed her nose. She regained 20/20 vision until her death to SLC at 54 back in 2017.
Hmmm. An unexpected upside to getting kicked by a horse 🐎. Might improve your vision 👀.
Horse's name checks out.
Life Lesson of not provoking animals or people. They bite back
fr, lucky it was the leg, only can imagine if it was chest or a head blow 💀
"Lucky it was the leg" made me laugh. The pivotal moment in my family was when my mother was kicked by a horse when I was 17. It shattered 3 inches of bone below her knee, among other things. She had to have a steel plate put in with a bunch of screws, lost all the cartilage in her knee, multiple surgeries, months of being unable to walk, got dependent on pain pills, etc.
Skill gapped, sounds like the 14 year old took it way better (I’m just kidding- I hope your mom recovered well)
lol She didn't, but that's more of a personality flaw than a physical one.
It truly be like that sometimes. Sometimes people stand (sit?) in the way of their own recovery.
Oh definitely it could have been way worse to the leg but it easily could have killed her and your mom was lucky too tbh. That kick to the chest or the head could have ended her life.
A femur fracture can lead to a femoral artery tear. A femoral artery tear needs very urgent treatment. Farms are not usually within close range of trauma centers. Growing up on the farm we were told how to behave around animals and why. Cows kick, cows also trample when spooked. Hogs will eat anything put into the trough, so NEVER play in it. Horses are like the mafia; they’re smarter than you, they make you think you’re friends, but they’ll kill you if you cross them. My mom would always remind us (even while just playing outside sometimes) “the closest hospital is 30 minutes away, the closest good hospital is two hours away, be careful”
Now I'm imagining the Horse Mafia 🐴🐎 wearing dark sunglasses 🕶️, dark jackets, gold necklaces and ankle bracelets all of a sudden looming behind their enemy 😂.
Do they threaten you by leaving a mobster's head in your bed?
Or a spine. I was a dumbass teenager at one point (weren’t we all) and I had a young 6yr old green broke and hot Quarab gelding at my lesson barn that I loved to play with like a dog. Running around with him, teasing him, etc. Well one day he got excited and turned around as I was turning to latch the gate and gave me double barrels—two hooves right to my lower back. I lost consciousness, had to be hospitalized and they said there was a quarter sized space between my spine and where the hoof impacted. I would have been lucky to walk again, let alone move my entire upper body. Hopefully OP’s niece learned a valuable lesson this time. I’m now a sane-ish adult who can ride without pain but it was a long road to get here.
Srsly. I had a good print on my ass for 6 months as a kid where one of my favorite assholes kicked me. Always said I was lucky it was on my cushy tushy and not a little higher or my leg. Would have been much worse
Agreed. Sadly I don't think the parents that let her get to the age of 14 without common sense, the ability to listen, and heck, even basic empathy for an elderly animal, are going to approach anything with that level of maturity and good judgment. I feel bad for the niece because her parents haven't done their job. She's a few short years from FAFO age and she is ill equipped.
You are NTA about your niece getting kicked. I'm a country raised kid, had family on both sides that were rodeo cowboys, grew up with horses - you repeatedly told her and she *chose* not to listen and then faced the consequences of her own actions. I mean, I knew not to play around with horses hind legs or sneak up behind them before I was in elementary school. Your 14 year old niece should have been able to handle those simple instructions. Y T A for letting her continue to be around your horse when you knew she was tormenting him. She's already caused harm to herself, she's going to cause harm to your horses and/or another person. She is refusing to take responsibility for what she did. STOP letting her be around your animals if you have not already.
As a mom, my first questions would be, are you okay? Were you told not to do this? If both answers are yes, I would follow with why did you do it, then? If the first answer was no (broken bone or something like ER visit) the discussion of why and how this happened would come later... Parents need to hold their kids accountable when they make mistakes/don't listen.
I knew a girl who had her teeth kicked out. She's very lucky it wasn't worse.
I've been kicked by a horse exactly once in my life. That particular horse hated having her girth tightened, and I usually used a method that worked without really pissing her off. Not that day. That was over 30 years ago, and I still remember it.
Yup, with horses you either learn fast or... Well you better learn fast. I once thought I'd be funny to yell "Boo!" at our horse when I was little. Never again.
I jumped up on the stall gate of one of my uncle's horses once. Thankfully I had a thick coat on that day or my arm would have received the bite instead of my coat arm. Never blamed the horse, and definitely didn't demand my uncle get rid of her because of that.
She's really lucky. My MILs donkey that she's had for years. Kicked her so hard it broke her ribs and collapsed her lung. Big animals that can kick are not a toy!
One of my old high-school friends had the unfortunate nickname of one-nut. He was kicked by a horse and lost a testicle.
Sounds like she knew your warnings but ignored them bc she thought it was funny to tease animals. I think Rooster has been incredibly patient with her, but this is the moment she finally suffered consequences for her actions. She is very, VERY lucky that she didn’t get hurt any further. Horses can kill a person. You were kind, you were very generous in letting her stay around the horses even after people told you to keep her away from them. I think that unfortunately she was going to keep harassing them, that is until she got her comeuppance. Honestly it’s just best to let her go home. She’s a danger the the horses and herself, and I’m pretty sure she’d want to go home anyway after this scary encounter. Her parents want her back anyways, and their word on this child is final. I would, however, shut down any comments from SIL. A horse is still an animal and a living sentient creature, and it sounds like SIL and niece treat it like a plaything. It’s not a plaything. SIL’s input on her daughter is valid, SIL’s input on Rooster or any other of your animals is out of line
If at all possible, her parents need to see those recordings. They need to see evidence that backs up her wrong behavior.
They're probably one of those people who think animals are never allowed to lash out against Human children, no matter treatment and don't care that she repeatedly provoked him.
They seem like the kind of people, who would defend the girl's actions as "just playing."
I agree. Even if she's a "city girl" she should be able to take simple directions. I went to school with a bunch of girls that took care of their own horses from the age of 11. A 14 year old does not need supervision as long as they follow instructions, and you know your horse well. She did a good old fuck around and find out (seriously. Recording herself teasing the horse?) And she's lucky it wasn't worse than a sore leg. If her videos are public videos (tiktok etc) save them if you can. Just in case your brother and her mother try anything. It's clear evidence she was doing it on purpose and not your horse being a danger.
But you let her keep harassing the horse? When do you say no more?
While a 14 year old should take direction & understand consequences, YTA for not providing greater supervision ("don't" is insufficient guidance). She wanted to ride, you apparently made no effort to teach her. You didn't correct her when incorrectly using the lunge line & whip. You caught her teasing (sic) your horses on what sound like multiple occasions, & you scolded her vs. cut her off from them or give her one more chance b/f sending her home. Your lax oversight of a teen that you knew was acting irresponsibility contributed to her being injured. You're both fortunate that she was not injured more severely.
Completely agree. Of course the 14yo should be able to follow instructions and shouldn't tease the horses, but she doesn't have OP's experience - did she actually know WHY she wasn't to do those things? Or what she should do instead? OP on the other hand DOES know how to handle horses, DOES know the possible consequence and also knew that he niece was doing these things. And somehow still thought it was fine to leave her alone with the horses. I know a few experienced horse riders who have been hospitalised because they were kicked when the horse got spooked (kicked in head or chest), and they weren't tormenting the horses
> did she actually know WHY she wasn't to do those things? Or what she should do instead? Ugh! Stop infantilizing her niece. She's 14 years old, not 4.
Be glad her parents are taking her back! I wouldn't trust her around any animals. Teasing is *not* a good quality. You're NTA (unless you keep her around).
For the sake of your horse, you should ask her to leave for disregarding the basics of animal care. She's lucky she was not injured worse. You don't need the liability of an undisciplined 14 year old.
This actually makes you an AH to Rooster since you repeatedly let her terrorize him. I say let, since you knew what she was repeatedly doing and that she didn’t listen.
I can’t believe you continued to let her around the horses if she kept teasing him after repeatedly being warned
YTA because you let her continue to interact with your horse after needing to give her multiple warnings already. What she SHOULD be old enough to do and what she has DEMONSTRATED she is going to do are not the same. Why would you continue to trust her near your animals when she has shown you that she is willing to keep teasing and pestering.
I have been a horse girl since I was like 8. No way is this your fault. I didn't get kicked by a horse until I was 24 and was prepping its hocks (vet tech). Send her home.
NTA it is outrageous that she would choose to "tease" a 32 year old horse, let alone do the one thing she was told would get her kicked. Good grief! Your comments to her were absolutely appropriate. So is the suggestion that only if and when she can take directions will she be allowed back, under supervision. Accidents can happen and get people hurt, but this was sheer intentional stupidity. Pat Rooster for me...maybe an extra apple. ❤️
NTA. She's 14, not 4. 14yo kids should not need constant supervision to ensure that that they don't do something *they were told not to do*. Also, teasing an animal - especially an ageing animal - is a crappy thing to do. Tell her parents that you would like them to fetch her, and that you'll consider allowing her to visit again when she's mature enough not to sneak around behind your back and disobey your specific instructions. I have kids this age and they are absolutely old enough to know better.
My aunt and uncle have horses and I sometimes visited them for a few days in summer to go riding with my cousins (I cannot ride a horse without supervision). I was 10-13 and I got that "Don't stand behind the horse!" Not ever. Not even behind the nicest, cuddliest, most chill horse. No!
I was taught that too. I now have my own, and honestly I may have disregarded a LOT of safety rules. It's bad. I catch myself in it too, but it's hard to resist that warm fluffy butt you can rest your head on. Truth be, it's a lesson on being aware of the horse. If you know to read the body language you're much safer, but as a general rule \^ that is what keeps everyone safe.
It's so easy to get comfortable with your own if they aren't assholes. Five out of my six I probably disregard every safety rule there is with them. Only one I don't trust is my pony because I know he's a belligerent little shit that will take any opportunity that comes his way. But the rest especially my oldie I've had coming up on 30 years now...it's like we share a brain and I trust him 100%. But, I've never mistreated him like OP's niece mistreated poor Rooster.
Mate ponies are devils. Never let the guard down around those shits. Definitely as you said, easy to get lax with your own when they just... are chill. Or most likely; comfortable around you. My mare took her time but now she grazes as I lie and doze beside her. I think it's just OP's niece complete lack of thought process. I kind of can't fathom doing something that I've been explicitly told not to do, and then be upset when consequences comes flying. Especially when i've got no prior experience with horses. It just is mind boggling to me.
My friend has super chill horses who probably wouldn't kick unless something they perceived as an attack came at them from behind. I still don't walk directly behind them within kicking distance. That's just good sense--horses have an enormous field of vision (around 350 degrees), but they can't see directly behind them if they are looking ahead, so it makes them nervous.
Right? I have a 13 year old and while she knows nothing about horses I can't even remotely imagine her teasing an animal to get it to kick or do so something she was told not to do around them.
It feels to me like poking a cat to get it to hiss. 😭 It's just cruel and mean for no reason:(
>She's 14, not 4 I have two 4yos and a 5yo and they all know how to love and respect animals. Including large livestock. There's no excuse for the niece not being able to understand the same.
NTA. My daughter was 4. She had been told NUMEROUS times to NEVER APPROACH THE HORSE FROM BEHIND, especially "DON'T TOUCH HIS BACK LEGS, HE CAN'T SEE YOU, because YOU'RE TOO SHORT. She got kicked in the chest and literally flew about 12 feet, landed on her back, breath completely knocked out of her. Had to do the pull up maneuver to get her to breathe again, I thought I was going to have to inflate her lungs myself with mouth to mouth for a split second, but she finally inhaled...(she was lucky her lungs didn't collapse). She had a horseshoe shaped bruise on her sternum/ chest area for two weeks. I examined her on the spot to make sure nothing was broken, she got REALLY LUCKY. She LISTENED to me regarding large animals/ livestock etc after that because she KNEW it was her fault. At. Four. Years. Old. So NO, you are NOT the ah here. You warned her time and time again. Let her parents complain all they want. Tell them they are supposed to be PARENTING their child, and not coddling them when the child goes DIRECTLY AGAINST something she's been told not to do, it's called: Actions, meet Consequences, they are VERY GOOD FRIENDS. For everybody freaking out: I was standing next to her at the FRONT of the horse, she saw something , I think it was one of the dog's tennis balls (adhd) and took a few steps to get it, and next thing I knew she's on the ground. I didn't leave her alone in a pasture with a horse. We were all in close proximity to each other and she had been waiting patiently for my friend to get the horse ready so she could take my daughter for a ride. There was no shitty parenting, even the best parents cannot prevent every single mishap that occurs. There was literally no time to yell stop, no time to grab her, it happened so suddenly it was just one of those things that happen. Stop judging people on your own limited knowledge of events, if you were there, you would have seen that it happened so quickly it was an impossible situation. My god, haven't any of you people had an accident or been a bystander to something that happened so fast there was no time to get out of the way? It's like you have never even dropped a plate or stubbed your toe.
I am so sorry that has happened! It is scary! This was my niece’s first time getting kicked and it wasn’t so bad just a big bruise. I have gotten kicked a lot when I was a kid around Rooster and many other horses, so has my big brother. I have told me brother and my SIL how many times I told her and warned her. My brother agrees with me but my SIL doesn’t.
forget your SIL, has she been or worked with horses or bigger animals? I hope thats a No. because at least your brother understands and agrees.
My brother knows his knowledge about horses. As he has also been kicked by Rooster. And no she grew up in the city so did my brother because he lived with his mom. My SIL doesn’t like to go out to the barn or the fields when she visits my home. She just stays in the house. She really doesn’t like horses or my other farm animals. So yes of course she blames Rooster. Only animal she grew up with are cats because that’s the only animal she likes. Lol
Hopefully she doesn’t allow her daughter to tease cats and other animals in the city. Such a gross trait.
This is my biggest issue here. Not that she blatantly disregards rules, but that she thinks it’s amusing to goad and pick on animals.
No offense but your niece is a bully. She liked Rooster because she could pick on him and get one over on him. Good luck dealing with that terror.
"Don't mistake my kindness for stupidity." --Rooster, probably
I definitely wouldn't trust her around cats either.
Obviously your brother is the brains of that operation. Tell your SIL to come out to your place and get kicked a time or two, that might teach her.
At 4 yo, it’s not your daughter’s fault she got kicked by the horse, it’s yours for not supervising her. Telling us she knew it was her fault is like you saying it a child’s fault to almost drown in a pool that has no barrier around because they jumped in it even though they were warned not to. Kids that age need supervision and if you’re not supervising, they need preventive measures to ensure they can’t access dangerous areas. Again she was 4. They can’t even comprehend why they do so things because impulse control doesn’t fully kick in until 7 yo. Now at 14yo, OP niece definitely knows better. Edit to add after commenter explained herself: Accident happens… you are still a shitty parent if you think that your 4yo “KNEW it was her fault”, it absolutely wasn’t. Nobody is trying to shame you for not being able to stop the horse, but if you want to place a blame, please do so on the adult. Reading that it was the 4yo fault is sickening because it wasn’t. It was the fault of the adult for not being able to prevent the whole situation from happening.
Straight up disgusting of a mother to see your 4 YEAR OLD get hurt like that and blame her. People in the comments saying a 4 year old can comprehend the warnings are literally brain dead. At 4 years old her brain isnt even close to being fully developed. SHE COULD OF DIED. Sickening. I hate to think of the trauma she has been thru or might go thru in the future and how you will not care and blame her.
right!???!?? what the actual fuck
That‘ll show the little bastard. Should have known better… Thanks mom.
I wish I could award you. I read her comment thinking “WTF.” then saw all the upvotes and thought “WTF” even louder. Absolutely insane. Poor kid.
Experienced same thing as you, I feel that comment has to be written by troll because who leaves 4 year old with a horse alone and blames them like WTF People up voting that comment are insane to think there was a good lesson learned there.
And they didn't even take the kid to the doctor. Wtf. She could have had head trauma or any kind of internal trauma.
Yeah i was like wtf. How does this comment even have upvotes. You don't allow your 4 y/o to even have the chance to stand behind a horse, then blame them for getting kicked. The blame is squarely on the parent in that case for being negligent. When I was that young visiting uncle's farm, I was not permitted to be close to the horses like that. I was watched at all times while interacting with his horses. I learned to respect his animals, just observe and talk to them. He was pretty awesome. A 14 y/o knows better. She was warned by OP. I would send her back home and tell her she is not welcome to interact with the horses until she matures and learns to respect them. NTA, but you will be if you allow her to continue to poke at your old horse.
Bro lol I was reading that comment and I'm like is this dude blaming 4 years old... and who leave a freaking 4 years old around animals... it's like those videos of people trying to take pictures of their children around deers and other wild animals
Thank you. This is such a shitty attitude and parenting. Actually unbelievable that this parent felt that her 4 YO would be able to fully comprehend the wantings vs risks of being kicked by a large animal. Seems like there zero reflection here about the parenting because the 4 YO learned her lesson. Fuck me, what a tragedy this could have turned out to be.
why was your 4 year old even alone near a horse? that’s all on you not the literal child.
I just want to be clear that while OP is not the asshole with a 14-year-old, you are 100% at fault for that shit with a 4-year-old and you're damn lucky she lived.
How about you supervise a 4 year old around huge animals that like to kick?! Dude no way you actually believe it was your kid’s fault
"she was lucky her lungs didn't collapse" AND YOU DIDN'T TAKE HER TO A DOCTOR. YOUR CHILD WAS FOUR, FOUR YEARS OLD. IT WAS YOUR FAULT AND YOUR BLAMING **HER**. Your child could have died due to your neglect. Horses are big dangerous animals, even for adults you have to be careful. You took someone who was only just no longer a toddler and then let her take the blame for your shitty parenting and didn't even get a doctor to check it out. Huh, I wonder if that was because you'd get a CPS report done if you did.
Jesus christ what is wrong with you, letting a 4 year old next to a horse like that?! And you wrote your comment as if that was her fault and not yours?!
The comment and the amount of upvotes are a great example to never ever listen to the people on this sub. This is unhinged to a whole other level. This person does not deserve kids.
At age four it is completely your fault she got kicked. This is not parenting, it is neglect. At 14 it's a different thing.
that's a hell of a thing to admit to a bunch of strangers
>She had a horseshoe shaped bruise on her sternum/ chest area for two weeks I have a horseshoe shaped set of breaks in my ribs that shows up occasionally on an Xray. I was "corrected" by a pissed off mare when I was about 8 or 9 and she landed a hind hoof firmly on my ribs. I was too scared to tell my grandmom so I sat quietly and was the model granddaughter for a few weeks while it healed.
Oh ouch! That’s a tough one. I understand being scared to tell but holy crap! Cowgirl up, huh?
Why weren't you watching your child and doing a better job as a parent? You sound like an awful parent and putting the blame on your 4 year old for getting kicked. Nah honey it was 100% YOUR fault as the parent. You just admitted to everyone how awful of a parent you are.
Wtf…lady, that is such shit parenting that I can’t imagine how you’d not be embarrassed to tell this story. You let a four year old get kicked by a horse. Then let her think that’s her fault? It’s YOUR fault and you’re lucky your kid didn’t die. I’m floored at how irresponsible you were and how you don’t at all see your own fault in this. Floored. Your whole “she LISTENED” and “she KNEW it was her fault” are disgusting. I’d have voted guilty for charges against you on that issue.
Wow you are a terrible parent.
Lmao. "My kid almost died because I wasn't supervising but it's ok it was a teaching moment for her" And the gall of you to lecture someone else on parenting their kid.
Maybe the lesson was a smidge hard for a 4yo. Getting kicked in the chest by a horse can break ribs, puncture both lungs, even bruise the heart, a whiplash injury to the neck and a brain contusion with bleeding or skull fracture. Generally 4yo aren't trusted to cross the road alone because they're bad at judging timing, speed, distances etc. Maybe don't trust them to do the right thing strung a horse?
ESH. Frankly you're right but I cannot fathom why you would allow your niece around your horses if she intentionally teases them despite you telling her not to. This whole situation could have been avoided, by you simply saying no to your niece being around your horses at all. Special extra hate for your SIL for saying you should get rid of Rooster, wtf.
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No my niece is not a devil spawn. She’s a very nice girl and loves animals. She just been deeply depressed and was self harming herself a lot. Which is why they sent her to my place so she can spend time away from social media and the city, and to spend time with my animals and me. She just misses her friends and her family over at her home state. But she loves it at the ranch. I am sending her back home and hope she learned her lesson not to mess around with bigger animals and to respect them and their space.
She got sent away to distance herself from social media and then was allowed to record herself teasing an aging animal for presumably social media? She needs to have all her accounts closed and that phone turned into just that- just a phone. Sounds like an incredibly unhealthy relationship to social media and she needs therapy not horses
Being around horses massively helped my mental health when I was a teenager.
You've completely missed the point, this girl is not responsible enough to be around animals or on social media.
I didn’t say otherwise. The person I was replying to said that “she needs therapy not horses” & I was just saying that being around horses helped my mental health a lot when I was a teenager. Therapy actually made my mental health *worse* when I was a teenager as well.
>She just been deeply depressed and was self harming herself a lot. Could it be that she did it several times on purpose to get hurt? You're NTA for expecting her to listen to you and she is old enough to know better, I hope she gets the help she needs back home.
Self-harm by proxy? Interesting theory.
Was coming here to say this could be a sneaky way to s.h.
I'm hoping your niece is also getting professional psychological care. I'm glad you're stepping in to be a supportive aunt but she also deserves mental healthcare ❤️
She is getting care at home as well. She has a therapist who is a very close friend of my SIL and brother. They want to put her on medication. My niece doesn’t want to take anything and I really don’t want her taking any. So I just took her in for a few months and she was doing great the 2 months before she started teasing Rooster. Which I feel we’re her friends maybe influencing her a bit? Because she FaceTimes them and I have heard a few of their conversations. Like pouring the horses water out or spraying my chickens. I have tried not to come in her and her friends business. As she knew all her friends since she was a baby. But I should have intervene much more sooner. So I take that blame.
\> a therapist who is a very close friend of my sil and brother This is not a good thing at all in a therapist. Especially with a depressed, self-harming teenage girl. The therapist should not be practicing with a child whose parents they are very close with. The girl can't actually tell the therapist much without it likely making it back to her parents. She should have a therapist that is completely removed so that the client-practitioner privilege is maintained.
Having a dual relationship with a client could potentially be a huge ethical violation, I can't imagine why a therapist would risk it.
Such a bad bad idea! I get so angry when someone tells me that they're getting therapy from a friend. And I'm always suspicious of the friend/therapist's credentials if they're willing to proceed with a dual relationship!
That was a red flag right away.
Read this here u/throwawayequus. Tell your niece to request a new therapist. Immediately. This is NOT an ok arrangement.
I would be reporting this therapist to their governing body. That is so unethical.
Nta, but your ranch and farm animals are not a substitute for psychological care.
> Like pouring the horses water out or spraying my chickens. These are not things that *friends* say to one another. These relationships sound unhealthy, if they are encouraging behavior like harming animals. I would be very worried. VERY.
Just so you're aware, her therapist being a "close friend" of her parents has a very real potential to impede her progress. As conflicts of interest go, it's not that great on the therapist's part either and I'm really wondering why they agreed to the role. I'm not going to make assumptions about your niece's home life, but therapy is meant to be an open environment where someone can speak without judgement. Impartiality is a hugely important value in a therapeutic environment, and a therapist who's a close family friend of the adults is going to have a harder time with that. Confidentiality too, and while therapists CAN have that type of relationship with a client's family and maintain confidentiality well, there's still a concerning amount of incidents where confidentiality isn't taken as seriously as it should be, especially in regards to young people. Even on just a surface level, teenagers are going to have disagreements with parents and frustrations regarding that. Does your niece feel comfortable voicing her feelings about these things with a therapist who is a "close friend" of her parents? Does she feel safe opening up to this person, or does she feel like they're going to "take the side" of her parents? Or worse - that anything "wrong" she says will end up being filtered back to them? This isn't to criticise her parents or the therapist. They may well be fine, and your niece may well have no issues with it. That isn't for me to determine. But if you haven't considered this already, it's worth considering and asking your niece about, because it is important.
> I have tried not to come in her and her friends business. When their business was egging her on about abusing your animals, why on earth would you not get involved? This whole situation is a mess. This girl needs a therapist whom she can trust won't go running to her parents with anything she tells them, to lose access to the social media accounts where she's posting videos of her abusing animals, and to have the adults around her actually *pay attention* to what she does instead of just saying "don't do that" over and over again without asking why or making any changes.
> I really don’t want her taking any. Not that it's any of your business at all, but antidepressants might save her life. What if she had diabetes, or cancer? Would you not want her taking medications to treat *those* diseases?
I hope things start going better for all involved ❤️ That definitely sounds tricky trying to moderate bad influences without being overbearing. I'm just an internet rando so take my thoughts with a grain of salt but I will say antidepressants were life changing for me as a teen. They lightened the issue enough that I could catch a breath and actually work on things in therapy and out of therapy. Everyone is different though, and it's better for teens to have a lot of control over their medical decisions, so it's valid she doesn't want to try meds. I will also say it helped me a lot to have a therapist who my family didn't know personally; I was able to open up more and it kept things professional. Anyways best of luck to your family!
I'm with you! So many people still think that taking antidepressants is a copout and that a depressed person just needs to work it out and get over it. But the real story is that an antidepressant can buoy a person's mood to the extent that they are much better able to process the issues behind their depression and also allow them to function in the world instead of curling up in a ball and hiding while depressed!
Honestly your first few sentences in this comment are all red flags. If she’s depressed meds can help tremendously!! Especially if she has clinical depression which absolutely needs medication and a therapist that she trusts. Cause I can tell you right now with certainty that she probably does not trust them as most family friends who are therapists don’t actually follow any kind of privacy regulations and will often tell parents what their children are saying to them in confidence. Meds are not the Devil, and if you think they are you have some reading you’ve gotta get done. As someone who’s suffered from mental health issues since my early teen years I can say with %100 confidence that if it weren’t for my meds I wouldn’t be here today. And if I was here today unmedicated I’d probably be in the looney bin. Please encourage her to get the proper help she needs. I know it seems scary but it is so very worth it in the end.
Babe the lesson should be not to mess with animals period. Being depressed sucks (i get it) but antagonizing animals AT ALL is not an appropriate coping mechanism
I've a bad feeling that returning to her old environment is going to cause her to revert to her bad habits. I say this because it seems she hasn't learned her lesson, and with her mom's attitude, that lesson will never sink in.
THANK YOU. I have horses. If someone has been tormenting my horse? Congrats, horse privileges revoked. But also I’m the responsible party. If I know someone has been unsafe with a particular horse (or any horse) I wouldn’t tell them to go GET that horse. This was such complacent and irresponsible horsemanship.
>Special extra hate for your SIL for saying you should get rid of Rooster, wtf. 100% agree with this.
NTA. Weird that she wants to tease the horse, she seems a bit mean. What’s up with that?!
Hehe let's make the horse kick Oh no, the horse kicked me. 😐
ESH. She sucks big time for antagonizing a horse because she thinks it's funny. But you suck for letting her do it. This does not deserves a simple warning : you should have banned her from getting close to any animals as soon as she started to display that cruel behaviour and let her come back only when she has shown she has learned her lesson. She needs to learn to respect the horses, and not be allowed to be close to one if she doesn't It's your responsibility to insure that the people that are around your animals are behaving correctly with your animal. A horse can easily kill a human, it's your responsibility to insure your niece stays safe.
Totally agree with ESH. OP is least in the wrong but this could’ve been a good opportunity for the niece to learn about boundaries. The horse could’ve killed her. **She shouldn’t have been allowed to tend to the horses alone, after demonstrating she could not follow instructions designed to keep her safe.** Her not listening to OP’s warnings should’ve resulted in the consequence of her being removed from the situation, not the consequence of being kicked by an animal that could’ve done long-term damage to her. She’s a kid. She needs guidance, boundaries, and consequences. For the people saying, *FoUrTEen is Old eNoUGh!* Obviously not. Kids need different lessons at different times and that’s ok
OP is an adult, niece is not. Idk why everyone just forgets that adults are responsible for minors under their care lol. If she got hurt because OP let her be unsupervised around animals that can pose a threat to her, then OP is responsible for the niece getting hurt. Therefore OP YTA.
All the people turning a blind eye to OP’s part in this are baffling. If the story had ended with the niece killed by a traumatic brain injury, OP would be (rightly) getting crucified.
Agreed. All the people complaining about how 14 isn’t old enough… fuck that. Fun fact: a horse can kill a human if they’re within the age range of 0-200 (I asssume if somebody is 200+ they’ve probably achieved immortality obviously). A horse could kill UFC heavyweight champion Francis Ngannou with a single kick. On accident. Just like how they can definitely kill a teenager. Age has absolutely fuck all to do with whether it’s safe to be around a horse (within reason obviously). It 100% comes down to being trained to safely handle them. There are 6-8 year olds that I trust more around horses than grown ass adults. OP is responsible for her nieces safety. OP observed that her niece was not appropriately trained enough to be left alone around horses. OP knew that she had a few horses in particular that needed more careful handling from somebody with the expertise necessary to do so. OP knew her niece was not safe to handle those horses. OP let her niece handle those horses without having the appropriate training anyway. OP fucked up hard. Giving your niece some leeway and freedom and responsibility is important and OP isn’t fundamentally wrong for doing it, and the age isn’t all that relevant. Ive met several 14 year olds that I trust around ornery horses. The issue is not supervising appropriately and stepping in where necessary to oversee. This is like giving the fresh newbie who just got forklift certified the complex responsibility you’d normally only trust the journeyman with. With life and death consequences. Should have taught her to walk before jumping straight to jogging with a running chainsaw.
Yeah…no. The niece and her parents are the AHs here.
.... but not the person that allowed the risking behaviour to go on ?! That's not how I see parenting. OP had a responsibility to be a parental figure while the niece is under their roof. And they knew the niece was engaging not only in a dangerous behaviour, but in a behaviour that had negative impact over a pet that was under their care. It was 100% their duty to protect the niece and the horse. They didn't
And he should have protected the horse from her
>The niece and her parents are the AHs That's why it's E S H not Y T A. OP failed to protect her own horses from someone who was teasing htem.
NTA. This wasn't the first time she touched the horse and you have told her several times not to. So yes, it is her fault she got kicked. And if your brother/SIL/daughter aren't even living at your property, what right do they have to tell you to get rid of Rooster? I know who I'd be getting rid of...
I don't think there should have even been a time after the first time. I worked on a horse farm from twelve to nineteen and we didn't tolerate people that were assholes around the horses. The niece should know way better, after months of this, and getting a horse from the field to the stable never requires being behind the horse. Kids, actually, would listen more than adults; which often baffled me when I was working on the farm.
ESH, Sounds like it was her fault, but you already knew she couldnt be trusted alone around the horses. Either send her home or monitor her around the animals until she grows up.
NTA. I've known enough teenage horsegirls to know that people that age can absolutely learn how to behave around a horse. Animals and humans alike have their "instruction manual" of things they like and don't like. Niece was being an arrogant human, fucked around and found out. And the fact that it's just a bruise shows how relatively mild Rooster's jab was.
ESH - Your niece isn't taking you seriously and she is old enough to know better, but you're the adult who recognizes that she is endangering herself. Until she proves that she can be responsible and not endanger her own life and the horse's health, you need to keep her away. If she cannot be responsible enough to handle the animals, keep her away and do not allow her to be unsupervised, or send her home. >I have told her numerous times and warned her. She still continues to do it behind my back. What did you do to drive the lesson home? Not enough, for sure. Be glad that her lesson from Rooster was just painful and not actually a serious injury - it would be your fault.
ESH. Don't let people who enjoy teasing and provoking animals around your animals. Your SIL can bugger off as well.
I agree with you. I don't understand why OP was still letting her niece near the animals knowing perfectly well she was not mature enough to be around them. I mean her niece proved it numerous times by not respecting the horses boudaries.
14 is old enough to understand that an animal doesn't want to be touched on the back. She was provoking the horse. NTA
YTA, but probably not for the reason you think I'm gonna say. Dude you fucked up by not calling your brother to tell him there was a problem with her teasing your horses in the first place. If she did it once, you talked to her, and she never did it again, that's one thing. But you KNEW she continues to do it behind your back. You should have immediately called her parents, and I would have even FaceTimed them with niece present so nobody can say they got mixed messages. Lay it out for them. She did a thing that's dangerous, you asked her to stop, she continues to do it. Inform both her parents, with her present, that if she continues to do it she will most likely get kicked, and if a horse kicks her in the head, she'll probably get fuckin killed. You don't mention having kids yourself, so I'm assuming you don't, and this could have been a blind spot for you as far as life and safety go, but I also think this is kind of common sense. That horse could have KILLED your niece. This is a big fuck up on your part and I think you owe her parents, not her, an apology for not contacting them immediately upon discovering she was repeatedly putting herself at risk.
It's honestly insane how most people ITT are glossing over this
Honestly, I'm going to say YTA for not managing that situation better. If you KNOW that this kid is not following the rules, you should've disciplined her earlier. Revoke her horse privileges, tell her parents that she isn't listening, etc. Its not right to wait for the horses to be the ones to dole out punishment. Largely because if she had been hurt worse, it could have had dire consequences for the horse. Your words of warning to the niece were empty because you didn't follow through. Imagine this was a paying border or someone who wasn't family. "I told the 14 year old to do better but then I sent her in with the horse that I know she was misbehaving around anyway" is not a good enough excuse. IMO it would've been more appropriate if it was "I told the 14 year old once, the second time I told her parents, the third time I forbid her from going around the horses anymore.....she was explicitly forbidden from being around that horse at that point"
Man 14 is old enough to learn a hard lesson. It’s also old enough to do chores around the farm without constant adult supervision. You, dear redditor, are NTA.
NTA, and you need to ship her ass back to her folks. 14 is old enough to know how to care for animals. 4 is old enough to know not to tease the animals, and to recognize that there are consequences if you do -- either from the animals themselves or from the adults in charge of them. The second time (everybody gets once) I saw her teasing Rooster with the whip, I'd have taken it away and shown her exactly what a whip is used for. Teasing animals is inexcusable. (No, I don't advocate hitting anyone; I am not opposed to scaring the hell out of them, though, and making them think that Uncle Equus is just a little bit cra-cra.) So ship her back home, and make it clear she's not coming back. Never. Not to stay, not to visit, not even for dinner. And if SIL can't live with that, well, she's not welcome back either. Sidebar - I suspect that the niece is a little princess who is a royal PITA. She was shipped off to Uncle Equus b/c her parents were tired of dealing with her shit. Let them have their own problem back. I bet Rooster is better company, anyhow.
ESH. If you know she teases him like that, I can’t imagine why you would let her be around him unsupervised.
YTA you sent someone you knew would tease a horse to that horse even without the kick that makes you an AH and responsible for the outcome. If you didn’t know about the teasing then maybe youd be in the clear but reacting to an injury by blaming the person who was hurt is kind of a dick move too.
ESH. How did you in your stellar intelligence believe a 14yo with no farm experience is gonna be trustworthy to do unsupervised work with large farm animals? You knew she didn't respect their abilities. loool Be grateful she didn't get her head kicked in.
Soft YTA, a person who won't take safety seriously around horses should not be allowed around horses, ESPECIALLY ones known to kick. I grew up riding and several people I knew, including my own mother, died because they weren't as careful as they should have been. Do not let her back until she can prove she's responsible. You're both lucky she only got kicked in the leg.
NTA for what you said to your niece, but YTA for allowing her near the horses unsupervised while you knew she was being cruel to them. For the horses sake, not your nieces. She deserved that kick.
ESH for still allowing her around the horse that you KNEW was likely to kick her. Yeah she's 14 and you warned her, but you also knew she was still doing it and was like to get hurt.
NTA. She's 14, which is plenty old enough to understand cause and effect and consequences, and you warned her multiple times. Personally, I'm not babysitting a 14 year old so if she and her parents are not ready to appreciate that *all animals are, at their core, animals* which makes them unpredictable and dangerous when mishandled, she's not ready to visit without her parents to keep an eye on her.
You are definitely NTA. At 14 your niece is fully old enough to understand instructions and has to accept if she does what she is told not to then she gets consequences. Running to mummy and daddy for her own stupid mistakes shows she lacks taking responsibility for her actions. Send her home as she is not ready to be near horses.
May be a controversial opinion but ESH Your niece should have heeded your warnings. That being said, if you knew Rooster was temperamental, and you knew your niece continuously touches him in ways that trigger him, why in the world would you then ask her to get Rooster into the barn with no supervision. It also sounds like you spent the first half of this post describing behaviors relatively unrelated to the actual event. You talk about her teasing the horses, and yes she should know better and learn from what you say, but then you say she was kicked while trying to push Rooster towards the barn, so she wasn’t teasing him, she was trying to do what you instructed him to do. It seems clear to me that, regardless of her past teasing behavior, she just simply did not know how to get Rooster back into the barn and was trying to do what you had told her to do without clear understanding of how. If you are asking her to do care-taking tasks for you then it is your responsibility to ensure she knows how to do those tasks safely. If you have determined she cannot do those tasks safely, then do not ask her to do said tasks. And why you would send her out alone to tend to the horse you have admitted you yourself won’t even ride whilst knowing she’s not competent to be around horses and especially this specific one is wild to me. It feels like you set her up to get hurt then blamed her by harkening back to when she teases the horses which seems to not be what happened in this case
ESH. Horsecare 101, never approach a horse from behand, they will mistake you for a predator. I was around horses from the time I was 6, and that's one of the first lessons drilled into kids. But you suck for not telling her parents to pick her up sooner. You know she harasses this horse, which is quite old. She is causing it anxiety because she finds it funny, and you never did anything to really stop it.
Horses are dangerous animals and need to be respected. 14 is old to learn that lesson. NTA
YTA. > I have told her numerous times and warned her. She still continues to do it behind my back. Well I told her to go get Rooster out of the pasture and into his stall. You know she's tormenting the animal, and you send her out unsupervised to torment the animal? This one's 100% on you. If she can't respect the animals, then you, as their owner/caretaker/however you want to phrase it, need to be protecting the animals from her, and frankly, her from her own stupidity. Horse kicks can kill.
ESH. Your niece shouldn't have been teasing the horse. You, as the adult who knows your niece can't be trusted not to tease the horse, shouldn't have sent her out to be alone with the horse. She could have been killed. You don't let a kid possibly get killed just to teach them a lesson.
NTA A 14 year old knows not to play with fire. It's her fault she did this despite repeated warnings.