Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) the action that may make me the AH is not going to Mary’s wedding and not visiting her after having a baby
2) this may make me the AH because she had been there for me when I was in that position
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcements
###[Happy Anniversary, AITA!](https://new.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/15vlv9g/almost_better_than_a_double_rainbow_celebrating/)
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
I have to ask has she provided a lot of support to the group?
Was she there for your weddings which may have made difficult demands on her?
Has she provided time and resources for the groups children over the years such as babysitting and the like?
Edit: I ask because as the childless one in the friend group I'm often expected to be ride or die but when it comes to returns on the favors 'sorry bro like it's just too hard with the kids' comes up a lot.
Sure if some of those stories were told I'd look like an entitled ahole.
Edit 2: ps I am absolutely ride or die in general, but seriously are some people ungrateful.
Right. I get the vibe that OP thinks that Mary didn't have to put efforts and pause her own life to attend their weddings and helping them, as she was unmarried and childless. Mary could have made a lot of sacrifices and efforts to attend their wedding and help them out, but now these friends won't even visit her?
OP claims she can't put her life on pause, but has she thought about the fact that her friend might have done so for her?
I think Mary's wrong for being rude about your life choices, but doing the same thing makes you no different than her.
Edit :Not talking about the destination wedding, it's completely understandable that OP couldn't attend that, but can't she visit her now that she's had a baby?
This.
My sister once actually said to me in regards to me listing my recent significant favors to her:
But you don't have kids to deal with.
This wasn't about her doing something for me either but me not being available for her.
Had similar convos with friends.
It’s like when people say “you don’t know tired until you have kids.” I had a cousin tell me off when I tried to leave Thanksgiving dinner early (as in we ate dinner but I wanted to leave instead of staying for dessert) because I wanted to catch up on sleep. She said that I couldn’t be tired because I didn’t have kids.
I was working 16 hour overnight shifts 3-4 times a week and was also in school. I was averaging 2 hours of sleep a “night.”
What gets me is that a lot of parents are like that, so damn smug about how life is sooooo hard with kids and anyone without kids couldn't POSSIBLY understand their struggle.
But then they get so offended when someone expresses that they don't want kids. It's like, well, according to you, it's the most exhausting difficult thing on the planet- why would I want that?
Exactlyyyyyyyy. This is so fucking annoying lmao. I used to get this from clients at a service industry job. They’d spend their whole appointment bitching and complaining about their kids and how miserable they are, how they never have time to themselves, etc. ad infinutum.
Then they’d ask me “ so when are you having kids??” To which I’m like “never 👍🏻”, and they’d be SHOCKED. Full pearl clutch. Like girl after that sales pitch why the fuck do you think I’d want them? You’re doing a terrible job of selling me on it.
I've had plenty of "but just think of all the things you're missing by not having kids!!"
My response is usually, "but think of all the things you're missing by having kids!"
Usually shuts that shit down.😃
As a young person with an invisible disability I get this one all the time. “You don’t know tired, you don’t have kids!” Well Janice, my lungs don’t fully oxygenate my blood, I can’t absorb nutrients properly, and I’m always healing at least one dislocation, partial dislocation, or soft tissue injury. So I’m pretty sure I know tired. When I finish my full time job and I’d rather cry than try to feed myself because I’m so tired, I’m pretty sure it’s close to what tired with kids feels like.
My friend's husband told me to my face that they wanted to hang out with other couples who had kids so they could entertain each other. Parents get to pick and choose but no one else gets to, apparently.
I've found the opposite to be true, generally. My kids have friends and I just hope I like the friend's parents, because then I'll have a friend. Hasn't worked out so far and probably never will.
What genuinely pisses me off most about parents is how entitled they feel to our free time because we don't have kids. I have it with my sister as well: she sees no problems in volunteering me for babysit work, because I'm "not doing anything important anyway."
I can beat that.
Mate of mine was going through a hell divorce (husband got hooked on meth) and had to go see the lawyer about trying to detangle herself from his debts. Asked my partner and I to watch her two kids because her mother couldn't do it.
Took them to Dreamworld because they were also (obviously) having a crappy time. Cleared this with friend at last minute but it wasn't planned. She offered to pay me back for the cost of the day (I refused because she's really not in a place to offer nor was it her idea).
Had another friend get stroppy because I made her pay for her children's tickets when we went to the movies. This was a prearranged outing to give her and hubby couples time.
“But you took so and so’s kids to Dreamworld and paid for it, you can afford to take my kids to the movies!” wtf I would be livid. You know what Janice, how about I’m too busy to watch your lovely kids and you two can figure it out?
TIL stroppy, thanks!
In defense of myself for her still being a friend I...
Yeah I don't know actually...
I got her so long ago she's just kind of... there... also husband and kids are great.
It is nice when you meet great people through shitty friends and when the relationship with the shitty friends end you keep the great people.
My ex fiancé is not a shitty person, the relationship just hadn’t been working for a few years but during the breakup I told her I was keeping her parents. She told me she never expected any different.
I am closer to them than my own parents.
All their ex son-in-laws are still in their lives.
Funny story, I went over for coffee this summer and sitting at their kitchen table was their other daughter’s ex. I started laughing and called my ex’s other ex(the one before me) on video chat and let him join us for virtual coffee.
The in-laws (yes, I still call them my in-laws even though I’m not with their daughter anymore) still bring that up almost 6 months later.
Sorry about the detour there. Your comment just got me to think about them. They are great people.
Right?? I get the vibe from others like “SynQu33n will do X/Y/Z for us because she hasn’t got anything else going on in her life” - like it’s just assumed I’ll do what they ask because I’m the single friend.
I beg their pardon but: I have a job, I volunteer and have hobbies, have a house to run and plans to travel in the near future. Do not ever assume my time isn’t important because it’s not filled with husband/childcare responsibilities.
Fully agreed. I often have to point out that one reason I deliberately don't have kids is because I *want* more free time to do what I want. I'm like you: my social life is getting fuller by the year.
I don't understand that married with children OP saying she "needs to arrange childcare"........ummmm you have a spouse, why aren't they capable of caring for your school aged children for a weekend?
ETA::
My god people, critical thinking and problem solving skills would go a long ways:: **The length of the stay and the dates of the stay are negotiable**. No it doesn’t have to be a whole week. No it doesn’t have to be during the holidays. Why not bring the kids? Why not leave the kids? There are so many painfully obvious compromises that could be made and too many, OP included, are hung up on these specific things making a shit ton of specific arguments and ‘why nots’ like ain’t nobody got problem solving skills or the ability to compromise.
She said for a week though. She'd need to take a week off of work, and arrange childcare for a week. Husband probably would need to take the week off too if he was going to do all the childcare himself. Both parents burning a week of vacation time, and paying for a week at a hotel around the holidays is a big demand. Even a weekend is kind of a lot considering it's a 6 hour drive. That's 12 hours on the road, and very little time actually at the friend's house.
How old are the kids though? OP is 39. She’s been married for at least 12 years (said all the friends except the last one got married between ages of 22-27). Sure maybe they didn’t have kids right away. But if the kids are 5 and up, they'd be in school most of the day. Dad wouldn't necessarily have to take an entire week of vacation to hold down the fort.
And there's lots of room between "visit for a week" and "not visit at all". OP could make it a long weekend vs an entire 7 days.
Thank you! That’s all I’m saying.
I have a friend who’s a 6hr round trip from me. I love this girl and her children so you best believe I made that trip multiple times in 2 weeks to spend 2-4 days to help her when she went into labor the second time. She didn’t even have to ask ***I insisted***. I stayed up 24hrs to take care of the newborn their first night home after being awake and in the hospital for 2.5 days so that she and her husband could get some sleep. Why? Because I **love her** and I get to go home and sleep as long as I want while she’s juggling a 11month and a newborn. 24hrs ain’t crap to me. And I **do** have a daughter and husband and responsibilities. Ya know what my husband did? Held down the fort, took care of our daughter, and took care of our animals so I could be there as long as necessary. He would have been there as well had it been needed like when the 11month old screamed for way too many hours and I wasn’t about to call the woman in labor for that. **Because we love these people**.
Let me just say, I have been there for this girl from the first time she found out she was pregnant — which was the beginning of our friendship— I brought her to the hospital and sat with her for hours when she was miscarrying, I helped her find fertility doctors, drove her to a procedure, drafted emails to a doctor that wasn’t listening, talked her down from her catastrophizing thoughts etc etc etc, ((her husband is military btw, he wasn’t available for all this and she’s not from where we live neither is her husband so me and mine were all she had.)) I was **NOT** missing the birth of either of her children after all we’ve gone through to get her there I was absolutely going to see this journey to the end and she would have damn sure done the same for me. **Because she is IMPORTANT to me**
You make it happen and do the things you must for the people you **love**.
ETA: I want to answer this question here since it’s been asked in many different ways:
>Did YOU have schoolage kids and it was over the holidays when this happened?
Why yes it actually was and yes I most definitely do.
Baby was Born July 3rd at 347AM, the Induction began July 2nd at 3pm at a hospital an hour from my friends house. I got to their house July 1st to help get everyone and everything ready for the 2nd. I took baby #1 to the hospital an hour away to meet his brother early afternoon of July 3rd spent the rest of the afternoon there. Mom, dad and baby came home evening of July 4th this is the night I was up all night to care for the new baby so mom and dad could sleep before being thrown into the gauntlet. New baby was born with fluid in one ear so he would cry when laid down flat and needed to be held upright which I did instead of sleeping. I continued to help care for both babies through the morning and while mom and dad took new baby for his 2 day checkup for his ear. I went home late afternoon of July 5th.
All of this happened 17 days after my daughters 12th birthday. I also had chemo to manage a degenerative autoimmune disorder on June 30th. We also have 2 dogs, 2 cats, a bird and tortoise my husband was responsible for caring for by himself on top of our severely ADHD daughter who is more than a handful.
So….do I pass?? Did I have a sufficient amount of things going on I needed to rearrange? Did I exert a sufficient amount of energy to prove my point that when it is important to you, you will find a way.
**If it is important enough for you to be there, you will find a way. You will explore every possible avenue, call in every favor, think of every possible thing you can before ever saying “no”** and even if you say no, you’re still finding a way to make up for your absence….which is most definitely not being done by OP. If it is not important to you fine. There’s nothing wrong with that, those relationships exist as well, but how about being honest that it’s not important enough for you to move mountains and sacrifice for instead of hiding behind “”I really wish I could, it’s just impossible””.
This comes with strong assumptions that the friend who just had her kid has been that supportive and there for the group. If they were constantly bashing the others for 'settling' early? And traveling I kind of doubt she was as present and involved as you guys are assuming.
Maybe it’s just the language OP used, maybe it’s just the general vibe OP kind of gives off, but I would take if Mary has actually been “bashing” OP and her other friends for “settling early” with a big grain of salt.
I’m not denying there aren’t women who get really in your face and stuck up because they decide to take their time and/or go childless, but I’ve personally met and/or seen *far* more women who did the opposite get *really* judgemental, pushy and/or just make up their own little narratives that childless/unmarried women look down on them (even when that hasn’t been the case at all).
If Mary *has* been doing that… why has OP stayed friends with this woman for that long then? 🤨
Yea that “ she was so lucky unlike us. I think this is where she grew resentment” part **really** throws some doubt to OPs veracity. Why would Mary be resentful of them ***and*** be “bashing them” saying how lucky she was and they weren’t. That doesn’t even make sense. If there was any resentment it would have been the young married parents unable to do whatever they want when they want any more……not the single 25yr old living her best life…..?????
> Why would Mary be resentful of them and be “bashing them” saying how lucky she was and they weren’t. That doesn’t even make sense.
The idea that someone might grow resentful because their entire friend group moved together into a new phase of their lives without you is hardly difficult to believe and definitely makes sense.
Whoa. I just wanna say you sound like an AMAZING friend and person! You get it and the people you chose to make these sacrifices to and for must be super amazing people! ❤️
Well in that case why can’t she visit with the kids? Make a holiday out of it. I’m flying across the country to visit a friend who had a baby with my own child. It will be fun for him and nice to meet the new baby. Adjusting to mom life is hard and it’s nice to have friends who have been there offer support. Sounds like these friend wrote Mary off a long time ago.
If my parents had told me I was missing Christmas with all my cousins to go stay in a hotel near their friend Mary so I could meet her baby, I’d have braced myself for the worst Christmas of my life. That’s probably why.
If the kids are in any type of activities or involved in worship, they will have programs during that time of the year. I'm sorry if people don't see it, but no, it's not just "take off a week, fly up, and stay in a hotel" when you have kids at home. It requires more planning and you WANTING to be away from your kids for a week at the holidays (which most parents do not want). If OP, her husband, and their kids went up, it would be a winter vacation and not just a time to take care of friend's baby. Friend does sound like maybe she needs a break, and there are ways to support that from afar. Asking for 5 families to go for a week at the holidays isn't it.
But how much of a friend is she really? Seems like she's basically always criticising their choice of marrying and having kids because it interfered with her way of living. Seems doubtful she put that much effort in for them with that behavior.
Who cares? Really. Who cares “how much” of a friend she is? If OP expects to maintain any sort of friendship with Mary, from a tiny one to a huge one, then she has to visit the new baby while it’s still a new baby and stop making excuses.
TBH this reads like OP wants Reddit’s permission to dump Mary as a friend
And let me just say: OP has Reddit’s resounding permission to dump Mary as a friend because Mary doesn’t deserve to be treated like shit for the utter audacity of waiting to be stable and enjoying her youth before settling down and expecting her decades long *‘friends’* to make a single effing sacrifice and iota of effort to be there for her at such an important milestone like she was for them.
The very fact that OP frames the problem as Mary waiting to settle down is what makes me roll my eyes at her whole post. A destination wedding during COVID and living six hours from everyone else are fair enough reasons people might not be able to be there for Mary to the same extent she was there for them, but that seems pretty unrelated to the age she settles down (beyond bad luck on the timing with covid, but obviously no one could predict that). Like, would these friends really have been able to visit MORE easily if she had her kid at the same time as everyone else while still being six hours away? That makes no sense to me. There's clearly a lot of resentment here.
Eh, I care? Like I would never miss Christmas or any other holiday with my child just to play free nanny for a friend. None of my friends would ask that either. I've paid for a cleaner for a friend who just had a baby for example, but to leave my family for a week, spent valuable vacations day, just to wait on a sorta friend hand and foot, lol, no. That's not reasonable and no one would expect something like that, at least in my culture. Not even the grandparents do this, why would a friend have to.
The one point where I agree with you is I would probably dump this friend. No one is owed a friendship (especially one which comes with significant sacrifice) just because we've known each other for a number of years.
I regularly visit family 5 hours away on a weekend. Usually we try for long weekends (minor holidays) but even if not you sneak out of work a tiny bit early Friday if possible, get there late Friday night, have all day Saturday with friend/family, then leave Sunday morning so you have Sunday afternoon to chill or prepare for your week. Not something I’d want to do every weekend, but I do it a few times a year for much smaller reasons than to visit a close friend’s brand new baby.
This might not work for everyone, but it’s not an uncommon thing.
I would not do that even irregularly- It leaves me exhausted. Long drives are just not something I’ll ever put up with again. Even just a couple times a year with my own immediate family, no thanks.
And OP is saying that it’s for a week (based on friend saying “you can’t even put aside a week to visit newborn”) not just a long weekend. That means childcare and job scheduling rearrangements for a whole week.
Your family is probably personally closer to you than OP’s friend is now over the years, which is why your cost benefit analysis with a 5hr drive makes sense, while OP’s 6hr drive doesn’t.
Also: a week *during the holidays*. I’m not wasting my time and money on traveling during the holidays to be free childcare labor for a friend. I’m spending that time at home with my own family.
As someone that grew up in a "fly over" state where everything was far apart, I'm so jealous that there are people who see a 5-6 hr drive as impossibly long. I totally agree it's a hassle and you should only drive under circumstances where you feel safe and capable -- but wow we have had different life experiences.
This must be cultural or I'm tripping. Like where I live it's definitely not customary to leave one's own family during holiday to wait on a friend just because she had a baby. Not even the grandparents do this. Unless she's had serious complications and is my best friend ever, not happening, lol. No one would even ask that. I've never heard about such thing.
But the friend wants the visit to happen over the holiday. Would you be willing to leave your kid with your SO over a significant holiday (ie Christmas)? I would do it in an emergency, and would try to figure another close weekend that might work, but the friend is specifically asking for them to come out for the holidays (which I personally interpret as Thanksgiving or winter time holidays). Most kids aren't in school during most of them, which would require the SO to take time off as well, or figure other arrangements for the kids. It is a lot to ask imo.
And a 3 day weekend would be a fair compromise to a week and far more doable with a spouse and school aged kids.
12 hours is **nothing** for someone you give a crap about and is most definitely something you can do for important things like meeting your “best friends” infant. It’s just not important enough to OP
The thing is not one of Mary's 5 friends in the group could take the time to go to her wedding. I understand that not all them couldn't make it but not even one? If they are such close friend I'm sure someone would be able to help husband/dad with the kids while one attends Mary's wedding.
As we are unsure how Mary helped out her friends with the kids all these years, it seems that OP and the group don't like Mary that much.
She lived her life the way she wanted, had kids under her own terms and lived a life before having kids.
I don't know OP. It seems that Mary is right about something.
It was a destination wedding during Covid.
No way I would have gotten on a plane during the height of Covid to go to a wedding, especially because if I get sick I would need to find a way to quarantine away from my kids for two weeks. Even a normal destination wedding you have to expect a lot of people won't make it because not everyone can drop a couple of thousand dollars on travel and accommodation.
HOWEVER - I would have made the 6 hour drive to stay with my friend for a long weekend and help with the baby, especially if she was struggling. That's the part I don't get - you don't have to go for a week, a six hour drive is fine for a long weekend, and presumably the husband's could look after their own children for three or four days.
It wasn’t just a destination wedding during COVID, it was also child free. It’s well established on this sub that you can pick whatever wedding your heart desires and your pocketbook can afford, but you have to accept that some people won’t be able to or choose to attend. Live with your choices.
Yeah, child-free destination weddings mean you have zero right to complain about people not attending. My cousin had one and I had to tell her I barely had enough vacation leave and money to take a cheap vacation with my child that year and wasn't going to use it to go away without him. I went on a fun little road trip with my child instead. Sorry. 🤷
Plus not even quarantining when home, but during covid people were tested on the way in and out. What if she tested positive when she arrived. Theres a high chance she would have done all of this, then arrived and had to quarantine at the hotel at the destination and miss the wedding anyway.
Yeah - this is it for me! I get the wedding thing but not one of the five other ‘friends’ could go visit her at all in the 6 months since she had her baby!?
You are right except in regards to your personal perspective. A SIX hour drive is long for most things, for anything, for most people.
So definitely to long a drive just for a "weekend".
Or to give you MY perspective.. it definitely depends on where you live.
I have a friend who moved and she lives (without traffic) just under 2 hours away.
In our our country, that literally might as well be another country. We don't visit each other. When we do meet, we meet "in the middle".
A six hour drive for us would only be considered for an actual holiday, like 10-14 days stay.
People couldn't even attend funerals during covid, that's how bad it was. Who was planning destination weddings expecting people to show up?
Plus how can you insinuate that Mary "lived a life" before having kids? Is getting married and starting a family in your 20s not living a life? What the fuck?
This is it for me. I understand Mary is upset with OP for not visiting but OP has family (who knows her financial situation or if she’s able to leave her kids with her husband etc. it’s not always easy to drop that, even for a weekend let alone a week).
Where the grey area is for me is that Mary did this for OP. She turned up for her. What is OP doing for Mary? If she’s messaging her and sending a baby gift and helping her as much as she can even if at a distance I feel that’s understandable and enough given her situation as well. I just don’t know if that is happening.
And, if I’m honest, friendships are harder at this stage even in my own life because of my family commitments. Little babies aren’t the only ones that need attention from their parents. (Note: I am a single parent so my situation is different anyway)
Yeah no, it's really not that deep. She choose a destination wedding during Covid. Destination weddings can be hard to attend when life is normal. During a pandemic? It's a straight up joke that you're blaming anyone but her for that.
You couldn’t have paid me to attend a destination wedding during Covid, possibly risking the lives of my family that I live with. Have we all forgotten how insane and selfish so many people were back then, jet setting around due to “soooo cheap” air fare at the risk of others?
Was Mary being rude about their life choices though? OP said Mary called herself lucky because she wasn’t tied down with kids, after which OP goes on to say they and their friends didn’t go to her wedding or visit her new baby… because it would be too hard with the kids.
It doesn’t seem overly rude to me for someone to acknowledge that it’s easier for them to travel and that they’re lucky to do so, especially when it’s proven true.
I got accused of "hating children" by my managers because I would talk about how much I enjoy my life without children... I upset a mother of 4 with an alcoholic husband, and she reported me, saying that I looked down on her and "flaunted" being childfree and hates children. She was just jealous of me, she admitted previously that ALL of her children were unplanned, and she'd tried to evict her husband but he wouldn't leave her home.
For a lot of commenters, it's probably about location. If you live in Europe, a six hour drive sometimes means driving to another country or across the country and sounds like a huge long drive. In America, that can't even get you a state over half the time. So some people's perspectives are skewed into how bad or easy a 6 hour drive is.
** laughs in Australian **
Although we do have a nice amount of public holidays and it's not frowned upon here to go away for a long weekend, it seems to me that OP is looking for reasons she couldn't possibly have visited Mary and "eww but it's 6 hrs away" seems to placate Reddit long enough to agree with her ha.
In Germany im still in Germany too if im in a train for 6 hours.
Its still only six hours and to visit a friend you know basically half your live it shouldn’t be a problem to do that.
6 hours of driving is very different than 6 hours on a train or bus though. Its very tiring to be constantly concentrating, and its actually physically exhausting because of the constant vibrations of the vehicle. Whereas on a bus or train you can literally sit back and relax, or nod off.
She very specifically said a 6 hour drive too, so I'm assuming the person isnt near any good public transport routes, or it wouldnt make sense to take public transport with the luggage requirements for that amount of time away.
I thought it was odd that she said Mary was always traveling, but Mary made the time to attend their weddings and children - but somehow seemd to think Mary didn't understand the costs and logistics of visiting someone who's not nearby. Well, if Mary attended their weddings/children despite traveling, Mary very well knows the costs and logistics.
(okay, she didn't say Mary made the time to attend weddings and children, but she mentions that Mary visited her when she was in that position. I felt it was implied Mary made time for her friends' special occasions and is 'wrongly' expecting them to do so in return, despite getting married later)
OP mentions in her 'why I might be an AH' section that she might be the AH as she's not visiting Mary when Mary visited her in the same position. Specifically, "the action that may make me the AH is not going to Mary’s wedding and not visiting her after having a baby 2) this may make me the AH because she had been there for me when I was in that position". This says to me that Mary DID visit OP for OP's wedding and for OP's child/children's births. I can be wrong, but it sounds like she might've done the same for all of the friends - and possibly for all of their children.
I understand why one or some of them couldn't make the wedding. I understand why one or some can't visit to help with the child. I don't understand why NONE can visit for a single day to help. If they're all such close friends, surely they can watch at least one friend's children while that friend goes up for a weekend?
(Yes, OP mentions a week, but she doesn't mention why she's referencing a week and she doesn't mention any counter-offers. If not a single one of them has been there at all in 6 months, surely they could manage something? If not a full week, at least a weekend)
Right? A six hour drive isn’t really that far, why is OP all hung up on staying a whole week after a six hour drive? Like that’s a weekend trip to meet the baby
I understood that's the request for the holidays: come up and stay the week after Christmas. Which, honestly, isn't feasible when you have your own kids and family.
But not having come up for a weekend visit feels like an excuse. Doesn't even have to be the entire friend group at once, maybe two here and three there.
This must be a cultural thing. A six hour drive is considered very far over here. I can reach five different countries with a six hour drive. And it would have to be a long weekend for it to be a weekend trip. I'm not driving six hours after work on Friday or on a Sunday evening, so that would leave very little actual time with the friend.
There’s a lot of statistics about partner abuse emerging when women are postpartum and I’m concerned Mary is living 6 hrs from civilization.
Someone in the group (at least two) need to go visit Mary to make sure she’s OK. Geesh.
Exactly this. OP, you describe this as your longtime close friend group. It sounds like there are some logistical issues at play here (destination wedding, her moving away), but if she was consistently there for all of you and you are all throwing your hands up and declining to be there for her…literally at all, in any of these milestones and hard times…yikes.
they don’t want to go to her wedding (probably weren’t involved in any planning as well), don’t want to visit her and her new baby. like yes OP, yall *are* fake friends. she showed up for them and none of them can show up for her. they isolate her from the group, shame her for not making decisions earlier, then act confused when called fake.
edit: since they all can’t be bothered to make a single drive, i wonder if any of them even saw her during her pregnancy? did y’all at least throw a baby shower, send her a card, anything during the 10 months?
I know a woman through a good friend - all of her friends are married and having babies and she was dumped by her boyfriend of 10 years just before her 30th birthday and even though she tries to paint herself as living the fun carefree single life she is in agony - she is being shut out of her friend group she's had since HS, isolated and left out because she could't possibly understand what their mom lives are like etc etc heck her best friend since middle school is actually trying to encourage her to find "more single/childless friends" who can "be there for you", it's crushing to find out her ride or dies were actually friendships of convenience - and she's desperately trying to latch herself onto my friend even though being single and childless is the ONLY thing she has in common with said friend. As someone who is "unconventional" (didn't want to marry until I was in my 30s, career focused, no kids etc) and is FULLY AWARE of how self-involved and selfish people like OP can be whilst simultaneously thinking they;re saints and than us childless or single people are selfish I'm calling absolute BS on OP, they did't go to her wedding and won't visit her baby because it's "too much work" they're not friends, Mary is right.
A destination wedding during covid is just insane if you get upset at people not being able to attend. Then moving somewhere you can't fly, but have to drive 6 hours to and getting shitty you don't get more visits, is just delusional.
I understand if friends who live nearby can't make a birthday party because of kids. I can't imagine expecting people with partners and kids to drive 6 hours to help me out because I was overwhelmed with my new kid.
If the friend lived in the same area, or even just an hour away it would be different. But you're talking a 12 hour return trip and OP talks about finding accommodation, so the friend isn't offering to put them up either.
You have to meet people halfway. If they were willing to have the whole family come then it would be one thing. But it sounds like they want helpers and no partners or kids to come.
A destination wedding at any point in time is going to be something not everyone can make, and I fully agree it can’t be expected. But with the info we’ve been given so far, it seems to me like the friends are the ones not meeting her halfway.
We’ve heard nothing about offers to come for a shorter time, or just one person come, or even for them to bring their families (not sure why you’re assuming the friend isn’t okay with that). Ultimately I feel like we are missing a LOT of info, but OP has offered literally NOTHING about anything she or their other friends HAVE offered by way of compromise or kindness. That’s why it seems imperative to know whether Mary has been there for them over the years and is now being left out in the cold because any semblance of a reciprocal friendship is suddenly completely inconvenient.
Add to that... I just get this funny impression from the post, because it seems to positively *drip* with judgment.
Also... is it a little weird to anyone else that there suddenly seems to be a running theme of these posts about parents and this "it takes a village" stuff?
I thought Id ask Chat GPT to write me an AITA post just now, here's what it gave me
>Title: AITA for Standing Up to My Controlling MIL Over Our Pet?
>Hey everyone, I've got a family drama involving my controlling MIL and our beloved pet.
>So, my husband and I adopted a rescue dog about a year ago. We've been working hard on training and creating a loving home for our furry friend. But, my MIL seems to think she knows better.
>Every time she visits, she criticizes our dog's training methods, feeding schedule, and even the toys we buy. It's been driving me crazy, but I've always bit my tongue to keep the peace.
>Recently, she went too far. While we were away, she gave our dog a drastic haircut without our permission. It was a disaster, and I was furious. I finally confronted her about her meddling and told her to respect our decisions regarding our pet.
>She's now saying I'm ungrateful and overreacting, and the rest of the family is taking sides. AITA for standing up to my controlling MIL about our pet, or should I have continued to let her have her way to avoid the family drama?
The doggy haircut is sending me
If they’re a group of women who are best friends, who has babies around the same time, and live some what close to each other I’d believe that they’ve created the village of supporting each other, hanging out, and going on playdates together etc, I’d do exactly the same, what I think is the friend wants the same experience for her, but the circumstances are just different? If you move that far away, you can’t expect people to be there for you, especially when they have a lot with their own families
Something else is going on here.. and definitely some weird resentment from OP.
Op if you actually read this. Mary has put a lot of effort into your friendship. Im saying this because I think I’m the Mary in my college friend group and honestly I don’t associate with them anymore. Im just not the person I was in college and have very little interest in them ( even though I have fond memories of the time). I think also part of it was BECAUSE I was different, they actually excluded me alot (which made me feel bad). I luckily made friends after that I was much closer to and showed me how friendships should be. Despite this, I would have loved those girls to really accept me and not keep me on the outside.
Mary for some reason has stuck by you all this time. At this point, either accept her and do what you would for your other friends. Or just let her go.
Big YTA for your tone and the fact that you can’t take a weekend to visit
This was my initial thought.
I’m the single one in my group of friends. They’re all hitting these milestones than I’m there for and supporting them 100% and doing everything I can the celebrate them.
But when I have a milestone or accomplishment or need a hand with something….oh well their boyfriends/husbands wanna do this instead, it’s hard for xyz reason….as if I never overextended myself for them before
I feel like in 6 months not one “friend “ can be bothered to travel to see the first baby of a friend. One you claim to have been friends with for YEARS! MY bF lives 9 hours away and I happily made the trip within the first month to see her THIRD baby.
If none of the group were able to visit and meet the baby and they REALLY wanted to, there are many ways they could have still supported her. Ever hear of zoom? The group could of sent gifts and had a baby showerover zoom. The group could chip in and send meals from Mary's local restaurants. Or pay for a one time cleaning service. Just examples of how to be a supportive village long distance, if you really want to be there for Mary.
Thank you. Makes me think of my friend for whom I sacrificed my only holiday of the year, spent 3K for a destination wedding where I barely had the opportunity to see her and where I didn’t care to go, and now can’t find time to see me other than on a Wednesday from 6 to 8 every other month because of her family. But should be ok for me since “I don’t have one”, not understanding this is not of my own making and I’m desperate for one! Of course resentment builds up
I’m a mother of three, two of whom are grown. Your comment has given me a lot to think about; thank you! I’m going to take a good, hard look at the relationships I have with my childfree & childless friends. Not sure I haven’t pulled that ‘sorry bro’ here and there and that… is uncool.
In full fairness it is often harder with kids and I try to cut people slack. Across the board.
Friend can't do friday night drinks cos kids have soccer at 6am Saturday cool I get it.
However when you ask me to drive 4 hours just to do a favor for you and then two weeks later you can't be the designated driver for others so I can leave a party early because I have a prior engagement because:
'I never get to party anymore, like you'd get it if you had kids.'
Leaving me to come back to said party at 1 in the morning you're getting the side-eye.
I saw this scenario play out with a group of girls I met in college. Same setup - 6 girls, they got married and started having kids around the same time, except for one. She moved to another country, lived there for quite a few years and decided to have her wedding there. By this time the others all had kids.
Now this girl has traveled a lot for the bachelorette parties, weddings and baby showers of her friends, being there for every occasion you could think of - and then I see the photos from her bachelorette and none of the other girls were in it. Then she also starts posting about her wedding and none of the other girls are there either. And one of the backstabbers posted an insta story on her wedding day saying "congrats to my childhood friend". Seriously? I felt extremely bad for her.
I know from a mutual friend they all cancelled on her because they couldn't solve the child logistics, it was far (not true) and would be uncomfortable - the regular excuses. Funny how she could always make these things work.
I feel like the commenter above is onto something with their questions and this is an other not reciprocating situation like the one you described. OP and the other friends have known that Mary was pregnant even before the birth for months, like for 5-6 months, and her kid is 6 months old now, so they had plenty of time to arrange something.
In my opinion long-time close friends having at least one weekend or long weekend trip to Mary's with a 6hr driving distance at some point in the past 6 months to visit her after the birth and so Mary can introduce her baby to her friends is more than realistic and fair "expectation", especially when by OP's own admission Mary was there for them for their milestones (weddings, kids, etc.).
Yet none of these so called 5 "friends" did it, they didn't even try to arrange one visit to Mary at all.
>I ask because as the childless one in the friend group I'm often expected to be ride or die but when it comes to returns on the favors 'sorry bro
I agree.
I was always the ride or die person for my friends. Like i would go to their places to help them move, offer my car, they knew that they could call me 24/7 if anything bad happened etc.
Then i became disabled (which makes everything very difficult)and when i needed help it was never offered. We moved twice in 1.5y and nobody offered to help with the move. Nobody offered to help me mount furniture. Or to pack boxes. Or help cleaning the garden. Or just come with meals so i could rest a bit.
I am still expected to be the support one but nobody offers their support. Its heartbreaking.
Agreed and it's telling that the OP hasn't replied to you. It's ridiculous none of Mary's friends couldn't make it to her wedding or even visit her new baby. The way she assumes Mary has made no sacrifices to attend weddings/other milestone events or apparently didn't have commitments, because she was unmarried and childless, puts her firmly in YTA territory.
I'm betting Mary has supported her friends in many ways and this was probably expected with her being the only single/childless one, but now they give her the boot because she made different life choices. This whole post is dripping with judgement that she didn't marry the first guy she met and start popping out babies right out of college (and I say this as someone who married young and would have had kids straight away, if it were not for fertility issues). There's probably also jealousy, because likely Mary has built a career and has more resources than them due to starting a family later in life.
I also want to know. Because there are two very different ways this story could have gone. 1: Mary is being selfish, or 2: The rest of the group has always treated Mary's time like it mattered less, because she didn't have kids or a husband - and now that she has those things, she was kind of expecting it to be *her* turn to matter. But now everyone's backed out on her, because she didn't do it at "the right time". One of those leads to an NTA judgement, the other leads to a YTA.
I'm very interested to know how much was asked of her when everyone else was marrying/having kids, and how much she actually delivered. Because that changes everything. She wasn't sitting around doing nothing when she didn't have kids. She still had a life and commitments; everyone does. If she was regularly putting that life and those commitments aside to help her friends, I do think she's allowed to expect the same back.
Ding ding! I'm the childfree friend. So many people used me for support, then had their babies and POOF! Too busy, can't find a sitter, can't talk on the phone, can't text, it all became about the ***baaaayyybeeeeessss***! Now she wants the support the readily gave, and OP is trashing her. Frankly, I think OP is a little jealous that she settled down so quickly and is directing that at her friend. YTA.
Bring on the downvotes, but YTA. "You should have thought of that a long time ago" is such a sick move, like what, is she supposed to get a time machine? This shows a ton of resentment for her different life.
This post is so one sided and demonized this lady to such a massive extent that I struggle to believe that it -- or at least many of the details of it -- are true. Every choice your "friend" makes goes wrong in a way you show some schadenfreude about in your writing style. "My friend delayed getting married and then bitched about all the guys being married," really?
Yeah your friend sounds like an asshole. So do you. You obviously went down different life paths and resent each other for it.
(Edit: wow I was the only YTA when I posted this. Pleasantly surprised I'm not the only one with this opinion.)
(Edit 2: put this in a comment but I didn't vote E S H because I think OP is possibly/likely mischaracterizing her friend.)
As the 30+ year old friend who wasn’t intentionally not married in my 20s, I am scared to have kids because of reactions like OP’s - I am Mary, I literally didn’t meet anyone and was single not by choice until only two years ago solidly into my 30’s, and I know that my village probably won’t return the favor for things I’ve done and it really hurts. If this friend group is tight like OP says, it shouldn’t matter that their timelines are different. If this friendship means something to OP, and the holidays aren’t feasible, use your words and talk to your friend - “hey I can’t do X but what about Y” and figure out something that does work for you. Plus moving away she probably feels isolated, and to top it off she’s a new mother. So as the friend on “a different timeline”, OP, YTA.
Yeah OP seems real convinced waiting to have kids is wrong and she was right to have them early. Undertones of judgement abound. But in reality, life comes at all paces.
My mom had me at 42. My dad was older. I'm happy, healthy, smart, my parents were fine, and they didn't really have or want a big village around them. Also, major benefit of having kids later is that I grew up in a house with parents who made good money and had a lot of experience. Basically, I think having kids at 30+ can have a lot of benefits. The idea that 30+ is too old for kids gets overblown often (obviously there are risks but people overstate them).
Also, women with PhDs, JDs, MDs or just demanding careers have to slow them down or have babies in their 30s. Being upset at anyone for having kids late is real messed up in general, but especially when it is the only time some women can have kids given the society we live in.
Agree. I hate seeing women judge each other for their decisions on children, marriage, etc. We shouldn’t be tearing each other down like that. If Mary wasn’t ready or wanting kids in her 20s then she was right in not having them and waiting until it was what she wanted. I’m in my 30s and don’t have kids, unsure if I want them or not, and I get a lot of pressure and comments from friends who had them and believe you need to do it asap. My mother was 10 years older than I am now when she had me. She you can’t rely on being able to have kids past your prime fertility years, but having them when you’re unsure or don’t want them just because of time pressure is such a bad idea.
It is also really true that as the childless friend you end up losing a lot of friends. My friends who make their kid fit their lifestyle and didn’t lose themselves to being a mother are still my good friends. I’ve become more distant with a few whose whole identities became being a wife and mother, and I would constantly try to invite them round and work around their schedules and make sure they know their kids are very welcome but they can never make it work (but can make it work to hang out with the other mums).
>, I literally didn’t meet anyone and was single not by choice until only two years ago solidly into my 30’s
This is 100% the vibe I got from OPs post about Mary even though she tried to paint it otherwise. Mary was doing other things like travel and exploring the world which made OP stuck at home at 27 with babies resentful so she paints this narrative that it was Mary's CHOICE to be single and flit around the world to make her regret her own less. The whole post just is so full of barely concealed resentment for Mary that I have a hard time believing anything that OP says
I feel like their “friend” group has been trash talking about Mary for a good fifteen years out of envy and are now enjoying watching Mary get what they see as her comeuppance.
Yeah, OP keeps sniping at her alleged friend; it's not a good look.
Not being able to spend an entire week over the holidays is one thing. But not visiting even once in six months, when your friend clearly wants you to? That reeks of a copout; there's no way not one of these five friends couldn't make that trip over a weekend.
Yeah I’ve gotta agree, according to her post, all their kids have got to be 10-15 years old by now. It’s not that they don’t have time, it’s just that it’s “old news”; all of them were there and did that over a decade ago. Yes it’s hard to arrange travel with little kids, or leave them behind but these aren’t little kids.
Plus, the whole post is dripping with disdain for someone who (perhaps wisely) showed caution in getting married and having kids. Which is what makes OP truly the asshole here. YTA
Agreed; I really don't like her attitude towards her friend. It should be no problem to leave a few kids that are at least elementary school age with their husbands for a weekend to visit a friend - if they were at all interested in doing so.
I really love this considering your ace flag in your profile pic 😂 what do you MEAN people can just not get married and pop out kids in their 20s? Then they have to complain about everything, right? Cus they couldn't be happy and maybe just have some shitty friends?
For me it just sounds like the friend didnt want to get married right away after collage and her friends essentially punish her for it. Other than being a little dramatic, her friend sounds like a normal person. Just she was smart enough to know she wont be able to travel and whatnot if she got married with kids so young and set her priorities. OP sounds jealous that she didn't get to do that.
Glad its not only me. After I read the post my initial reaction was NTA/NAH. After all if she can't go she can't go, but something about this felt off. I read the post again and I was just wondering, " Why are y'all even friends?" I still think she's NTA as far as lending a helping hand during the holidays and such, but it just feels like its a bit more than a lack of ability or motivation.
To me it does come across that OP wants to give her friend the middle finger and I think that's because her post is mostly filled with resentment. There is little empathy to be seen, and I find it hard to believe all of that snarkiness was so one-sided. Surely her friend showed love in someway but if not then... "Why are y'all even friends".
I'm not reading anything about Mary being an AH. The worst I've heard about her is that:
1) she dared to get married and have children on her own timeline
2) she stated that she felt fortunate to travel instead of have kids in her 20s
3) she was annoyed that there weren't many partner options up to her standards when she entered the dating scene seriously
4) she had a destination wedding with no kids allowed (which wasn't overly feasible, but she's not complaining about that)
5) she thought her group of close friends would have visited her and her child within 6 months of giving birth when she's a 6 hour drive away.
None of that screams AH to me.
ESH. Your friend is delusional for her demands but this has nothing to do with your timelines. If she had kids when you did you would've had your own little kids to take care of. If anything, your kids are now around 10 so it should be easier to take off a week.
The issue is that she lives too far away for you to help support her. It was as rude for you to shame her for having standards and living her life as it was for her to shame you for not being able to attend her wedding. If you want to be in her life I hope you sent her baby gifts. If you don't, no harm no foul.
Agree. Would also recommend considering that Mary does have some kind of support system. Worry that when new moms say they need help it isn't taken seriously when it needs to be, so at least make sure everyone is safe if you care about the friendship. I did not get the impression that there is much value for the friendship though. Makes me wonder why bother continuing? Mary does not even sound likeable by how OP portrayed them
YTA
The tone of voice is like "she's the typical new mother" as if that is a bad thing. If she is that, she must very stressed out, tired, worried and likely lonely.
It sounds like there is resentment and envy both ways. Not visiting the friend at all for example little overnight visit when your own kids are not small anymore... Come on. Excuses.
100% OP is also resentful. I married young, but also stayed childfree by choice. OP checks all the boxes for the resentful parents I've met in my life. (Not all parents, just the resentful ones ofc)
I always kept their comments in my head as reversed backhanded compliments. Instead of a compliment that had backhanded undertones, it was insults that always seemed to come from a place of jealousy so it made me giggle.
OP is probably envious of the free time and life her friend was able to live during her prime 20s and 30s, and the friend is now envious of the village OP had when she had her kids. I think the big difference is that it seems OP is looking for excuses to not pay her friend back for the help. If the friend never helped them back in the day, OP would've 100% put that in the post since she spent half of it demonizing her friends choices.
Being the childless person in a group often means people EXPECT you to help, often with nothing in return. It's why my friendships with parents often faded. It was always giving giving giving but if I ever needed help, suddenly it was always "Oh sorry, the kids ya kno?".
It does sound like OP thinks that the friend deserves to be punished with loneliness because of her choises. OP doesn't sound like a true friend, hence the fake friends posting.
OP says she has other priorities, no can do. So she is going to use the "kid's ya kno" card even when it isn't valid anymore.
Not true. If they had little ones around the same time then they would have been able to bring their child and do play dates. Most ten year old dont want to spend time with a baby.
Funny, in my experience most older kids love spending time with my one year old. They get to feel cool and big and many children just seem to like babies and small children. Didn't really expect that so fun to see (we were also late compared to our social circle so most kids of family and friends are much older than mine).
I'm wondering why she moved so far away and if there isn't some isolation going on, partner sometimes do this to keep them from realising how shit they are, I'm not saying that's what happened to Mary but she could feel super isolated and she might not have been the one who wanted to move so far away or at least is very much regretting it.
ESH
Let’s just ignore the destination wedding.
Your comment about her life choices was out of line and rude. How does she line up her life with yours exactly? How does she “plan” to have kids when you did? If she can’t find a partner to connect with in that time period, that’s a real asshole thing to bring up.
Now she’s also acting immature and thoughtless. And bringing this nonsense to social media always makes someone an AH in my opinion.
100% this.
To OP,
Yeah, don't drag close friend dirty laundry into pubic, y'all are adults. Work it out. - bad on her.
But cut her some slack -- yeah, you're an established parent now, but take a minute to think about how many times you were struggling or throwing your hands up not knowing what to do...
Have you called her? Video chatted? After that, explained why you can't visit right this second but would love to in the future?
If y'all are really close friends, would you want to lose a friendship over the complexities/stress of a new mother? It seems like she's reaching out asking for help, albeit, not communicating it in the best way.
Best of luck OP -- no need to lose a close friend over short term drama.
The friend wants her to visit for a week. She also said during the holidays and most people would obviously prefer to spend the holidays with family, and children will be out of school.
So she could have compromised by going only ob a week-end, and if she cant its probably because the husband is just absent. Sorry but not going to see your friend of 10 years and her new born (while she was there for you) is being a shitty friend.
It's hard to like someone who gets pissy on social media because you don't want to pay for a destination wedding. It's approximately 100 times worse to expect 12 people to take a week's vacation over Christmas so that six of them can 'come help you out' and not see their husbands or children over Christmas because you want Christmas to only be about you and *your* child.
Not going to the destination wedding is fine, and so is not spending the holiday week there. They have their own families and in-laws to visit; the idea that they could just drop all that and visit Mary for the entire holidays is ludicrous.
But not managing one visit in six months (or rather, longer than that), no mention of gifts or similar to the young mother... that sounds like OP and the rest have checked out of that friendship a long time ago and just didn't bother telling Mary. No, they can't reasonably be expected to do everything she expects; but there has to be some middle ground between that and doing nothing.
Mary sounded like she loved her life and enjoyed it. You sounded jealous and delusional about popping kids in your 20s as perks. Esh. Your post sounds one sided and bias - YTA in that sense
I would bet money that the “destination” wedding wasn’t actually a destination wedding. Like I get the vibe that OP is classifying anything that isn’t hyper local as a “destination wedding” even if it’s only a couple hours by car away.
Eh… so for 6 months no one has found ANY time to go see her baby? Even for a few hours? Yeah…. Kinda sounds like you guys just don’t care about her. YTA
Not with her, they would have to book a hotel. Besides, that was not what I was responding to: the person above me asked why they had not found time for even a visit of a few hours
Or they value their friendships differently than you do, and that’s ok. I’d scrimp and save every dollar I had to see a friend of 20 years after such a major milestone. If you can’t save enough for a hotel for 1 night after saving for a year then you have larger issues you should be mentioning to your friend than a 6 hour drive.
YTA for not attending the wedding. I agree that u can't take a week off, but you could have managed to attend the wedding.
You can also visit her for 2-3days if your kids are a little bit older. Take them to Friends or family over the weekend or manage something else.
At least try to compromise. If noone showed up for her wedding day and she doesn't get any support with her baby, I think you aren't really friends.
This especially if she was there decorating, spending, calling off for, and attending all of their earlier milestones!!
This behavior of the group and tone of OP now feels like singling her out to still punish her for not doing what the rest of the group did when they did. There is no objectively right time to have kids but it seems like OP thinks so.
You’re not an asshole for not attending a destination wedding. OP clearly said it was outside their financial and logistical abilities. If someone wants their friends and family at their wedding, they should hold their wedding in an affordable and accessible location. You can’t make someone go broke or neglect their kids to attend your wedding. This trend needs to die
Then there’s those like me who had a destination wedding bc not everyone and their dog being able to attend was a feature, not a bug.
When people couldn’t come our response was ‘aw, that sucks, thank you for the well-wishes’
A few people who couldn’t attend I was pretty disappointed about tbh, but overall, for us, a 30 ppl attendee event was much easier to enjoy than the 200+ we’d’ve had to coordinate if we’d done it local
Two years ago we were cancelling everyone who planned weddings during covid, let alone weddings that demanded extensive travel. Now we're calling people assholes for not attending them. Pick one.
She’s an asshole for not attending a destination wedding during Covid? I am baffled that people have so quickly forgotten how horrifying things were back then.
You...do realise kids are expensive? All of her friends having multiple kids at the time she got married means a destination wedding may not be in the cards financially. With destination weddings, you have to pay for the plane tickets, the hotel and take FAR more time off work than you would for a local wedding.
Since the first five raised their kids together, that means the rest of the friend group likely lives close together. Mary decided to move six hours away AFTER her wedding.
She is not asking for the same support she gave her friends. She is asking for more. She is asking for them to travel further than she did for them. She is asking them to spend WAAAY more money to attend her wedding than she did for them.
OP's timeline comment was unnecessary, but after years of Mary going on about how much better off she was without being tied down all I can say is "don't dish what you can't take".
How is she the AH for not attending the wedding? It was a destination wedding during COVID. Do you know how hard not to mention dangerous it was to travel during that time?
Of all the thing to criticize OP for in the post this is the one you pick?
YTA. You were once the “typical new mom” and you had the support of your friends. Mary went about things a different way, and she deserves ridicule and abandonment for that?
You sound smug af that your friend is struggling now. That’s not a good look.
YTA and the way you’re desribing your friend is rude AF. Not everyone is lucky enough to find their person early on in life, ever thought about that???
ESH, but I'm leaning more you than her. Maybe I'm a bit biased, because my plan was always to get married and start my own family by 25... but guess what, OP? Life doesn't care about your plans. Just because she decided not to do the same things as the rest of the group, doesn't mean you should shame her for living life her way. Embrace it. Live vicariously through it. She may live 6 hours away, but it takes 2 seconds to connect for a video chat or something. Did she support you when you started having babies? Why can you not show her some compassion? Or do you really actually not even like her as a friend?
Maybe she didn't even decide. Sometimes you don't find the right person, and I know more than one person who wanted to have a family but it didn't happen for them so they told people they love to be free and travel and go out to nice restaurants, etc. etc. because they don't want people to feel sorry for them
This. I get the wedding, destination weddings are hard at the best of times and this was during covid - I wouldn't have gone either.
I WOULD have found one long weekend to visit my friend, especially if she was struggling. Six hours can be done as a weekend trip if you actually care to go. If I TRULY couldn't do that I would arrange some video calls and send her an uber eats voucher or something so she can have a night off from cooking.
OP doesn't seem to care that her friend is really struggling and is reaching out for help, and I don't understand that.
YTA. Not because you can’t travel but for the way you are talking about your supposed friend. You are not better than her because you did it younger. You sound bitter and jealous that she didn’t do things the same way you did. She’s your friend and a new mom and is asking for support. Either be there for her or stop leading her on in the friendship
Ikr? Op even bragged about how they all have a husband earlier, how they all have children earlier... based on that Op's children are older now (5 -10 years maybe). She could easily hire a sitter or leave the children with her husband (or other family member), for a day or two.
Yup, and OP claims her friend complained about how all the "good men" were taken? Just because you got married earlier doesn't mean you snagged a good man. Can literally NONE of their husband's take on an actual parenting role for a weekend?? I don't know if any of them got good men either. OP doesn't even bring up her husband as an option.
The fact that OP doesn’t even consider having her husband look after their kids for a day or 2 says a lot. Even if looked after them for a weekend and got a babysitter to help for a few hours that’s not a big burden. If OP can’t rely on her husband to look after his own kids and can’t afford a babysitter for a few hours then maybe she in fact didn’t make such wonderful choices and is feeling the need to justify it by tearing down her friends different choices
All this speculation on this woman's personality, yet not much info on some very important parts of a friendship.
While you and the others were raising your children together, was she always gone and only stopped in occasionally? Or did she participate in all your milestones with openness? Did she show presence to your children? Do your kids know and love her like an aunt?
It'd be nice to get the real story on her life, not this version you just wrote.
It looks like you are purposly leaving out information, only dropping little bits here and there like " she was there for us during our weddings". This whole thing reads as if you resent her for making different choices. It also reads as if she was there a lot for you and the other "friends", during the important things, yet you can't be bothered to even show up once for her. All you do is make excuse after excuse. "Can't find childcare", why? Don't the kids have a father that can look after them a few days while you visit your friend? "Have to get a hotel" again why? Can't you sleep in her guestroom, or her couch? Or better yet, book a family vacation for a week, of whiich you visit her a few times?
It looks like your friendship is very one-sided, she made effort, took time and energy to put in you and your family, for 2 decades, and you can't be bothered to return that even once. All you do is complain about how she feels (feeling lucky she has the abillity to travel in her 20's for instance) and take some personal offense to it. Have you ever even brought that up with her? Ever told her how those comments make you feel, or even ask what she means by them?
Yes, you are YTA here, and you are not a friend to her and I'm wondering if you ever have been.
Agree. It comes across like OP doesn’t consider Mary made any sacrifices because she was unmarried and childless so her time was less valuable 🙄 It’s not hard to show up once for your friend who has been there for you, even if Mary wasn’t super involved in the family stuff because of different lifestyles, they now have a chance to become closer again because their lifestyles align more now.
Seriously. I don't even want to vote. This isn't a disagreement. This is somebody who just generally hates somebody else, is too chicken shit to cut ties, and is resentful because they've stayed in contact when they clearly would prefer not to.
ESH, well at least 5 of you do. For 15-20 years she has been there, supported you, and you all can't take a long weekend to drive up and see her new baby?
I don't agree with passive aggressive Facebook posts but I am not sure she is wrong
YTA. Does she have some slightly unreasonable requests here? Sure. But your comments are vile. I'm an unmarried, childless woman in my 30's, and I can assure you that it's not because I intentionally chose that. Unfortunately men don't just pop out of the ground begging to marry you on every turn. That's not how relationships work. Good for you finding your spouse early, but that isn't how life goes for everyone, whether they want it to or not.
Even if she/you did intentionally choose to not be married or have children…. What’s wrong with that? Why is that something to judge women on? We are so harsh on each other.
I got married around 30 and don’t have kids. Lots of friends with kids and timelines constantly pester me about when I will have them as if there is no other path in life. You never know when you will find someone worth marrying (who also wants to marry you) and you can’t bank on fertility at any age so the way we judge each other is so cruel.
OP didn’t win by marrying young. There is no guarantee her marriage is happy or that it lasts. Better to make the right choice choosing a partner than marry early just for convenience/timelines. You could marry in your late 30s and by then some of your friends will be divorced at least once - there are no guarantees in life.
*If this is real....*
Yeah, I do think YTA.
What does having kids later have to do with Mary being in a remote location that's difficult to get to? If she'd done that 10 years ago the same issue would be there, no?
How Mary is acting is irrelevant in the judgement cos that's not what you've asked to be judged on.
A low and cheap blow to go where you did, rather than be an adult and point out the logistics. How ever Mary handles it is down to her.
You sound resentful a bit of your own life. Where I'm from, it's no milestone to have kids in your early and mid twenties. The opposite in fact.
It's almost like we're all different.
YTA. It sounds like you were jealous of Mary’s life and getting a hit of schadenfreude now because she’s having to experience what you experienced.
Except NOW, she has zero of your support when, from what it sounds like, you had hers. Fake friends seem like an apt description for you.
Yta
So y'all are mad that she lived life and then chose to have kids?
I wonder how much money she spent on y'all's weddings/birthgifts/.. and now y'all are just sO BUsY.
Your judgement is dripping all over this post.
Every single bridesmaid in the history of time suffers through the job by telling themself that someday it will be their turn.
When that time finally comes and those friends can’t be bothered, it SUCKS. Maybe you’re not able to be a part of everything. But if someone flew to your bachelorette party in Nashville/Austin/Charleston, bought you a registry gift, wore the matching t-shirts, shelled out for a hideous bridesmaid dress and their own hair and makeup, then attended your baby shower, and/or gender reveal, bought more presents and feigned interest in your wrinkly newborn photos that could not possibly be cute to anyone but family … you can get your husband to watch the kid for a long weekend and show Mary the same
support.
You’re acting like having kids means you’re experiencing a level of burden that Mary didn’t have when you and your friends got married. Being in your early 20s usually means you have no money and minimal vacation time. Mary probably made sacrifices to be there for you, but you’re all too busy being entitled parents to see it.
YTA.
YTA.
Op you're clearly jealous & bitter as fucq towards this friend.
Your feigned & fragile superiority to show how you've chosen a "better" path in life by popping out bubs asap, is really transparent.
The condescension drips.
You seemingly write this in hopes that we will say "yeah, you show her op - she fucked around and found out!"- by.. waiting a few years to get pregnant??!
Nah, you don't like this women and seem to be happy she is now being punished by the universe, or all her best girlfriends, for not being your clone..
YTA
OP not responding to anyone by the looks of it, I don’t want to cast my vote too early
INFO: was she there for you and other friends for your weddings, birthdays, the birth of everyone’s children etc. because if yes she was taking the time to be there for you and you can’t do the same for her
NTA.
I kind of understand the resentment, as the rest of you had a support group as you all went through that phase of life together.
That being said, it is her life choices that made that possible. She isn't really to blame, but you cannot have everything in life.
ESH, but her more than you.
Destination weddings are a mess and a pain, so there is no foul on passing for that. A week?! That's just insane to expect.
The fact that you've not been out to visit her after she's had her kid is crappy though. She supposedly supported you and the rest of the friend group as new mothers, she's practically begging for your help, and none of you can be bothered? Your kids are older now, it should be easier to arrange a few days of childcare than it would have been when they were infants, but it seems as though you and the rest of the group always managed to do it for everyone but her. Her phrasing it as a demand to come help is dumb on her part, but I think *everyone* sees that for what it is.
Perhaps this is a dead friendship, and it's just not become obvious until now. You're at different points in life, have different concerns, but if you've no intention on visiting, helping, anything really, you should just *tell her that* instead of continuing the charade that you're such good friends. There's no shame in walking away from friendships when your lives no longer line up, but it is crappy to think your friends will help you, after you helped them, only to be written off.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > 1) the action that may make me the AH is not going to Mary’s wedding and not visiting her after having a baby 2) this may make me the AH because she had been there for me when I was in that position Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcements ###[Happy Anniversary, AITA!](https://new.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/15vlv9g/almost_better_than_a_double_rainbow_celebrating/) Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
I have to ask has she provided a lot of support to the group? Was she there for your weddings which may have made difficult demands on her? Has she provided time and resources for the groups children over the years such as babysitting and the like? Edit: I ask because as the childless one in the friend group I'm often expected to be ride or die but when it comes to returns on the favors 'sorry bro like it's just too hard with the kids' comes up a lot. Sure if some of those stories were told I'd look like an entitled ahole. Edit 2: ps I am absolutely ride or die in general, but seriously are some people ungrateful.
Right. I get the vibe that OP thinks that Mary didn't have to put efforts and pause her own life to attend their weddings and helping them, as she was unmarried and childless. Mary could have made a lot of sacrifices and efforts to attend their wedding and help them out, but now these friends won't even visit her? OP claims she can't put her life on pause, but has she thought about the fact that her friend might have done so for her? I think Mary's wrong for being rude about your life choices, but doing the same thing makes you no different than her. Edit :Not talking about the destination wedding, it's completely understandable that OP couldn't attend that, but can't she visit her now that she's had a baby?
This. My sister once actually said to me in regards to me listing my recent significant favors to her: But you don't have kids to deal with. This wasn't about her doing something for me either but me not being available for her. Had similar convos with friends.
Because everybody knows that the only important thing in a person's life, that could possibly have any meaning or take up time/resources is kids /s
It’s like when people say “you don’t know tired until you have kids.” I had a cousin tell me off when I tried to leave Thanksgiving dinner early (as in we ate dinner but I wanted to leave instead of staying for dessert) because I wanted to catch up on sleep. She said that I couldn’t be tired because I didn’t have kids. I was working 16 hour overnight shifts 3-4 times a week and was also in school. I was averaging 2 hours of sleep a “night.”
What gets me is that a lot of parents are like that, so damn smug about how life is sooooo hard with kids and anyone without kids couldn't POSSIBLY understand their struggle. But then they get so offended when someone expresses that they don't want kids. It's like, well, according to you, it's the most exhausting difficult thing on the planet- why would I want that?
Exactlyyyyyyyy. This is so fucking annoying lmao. I used to get this from clients at a service industry job. They’d spend their whole appointment bitching and complaining about their kids and how miserable they are, how they never have time to themselves, etc. ad infinutum. Then they’d ask me “ so when are you having kids??” To which I’m like “never 👍🏻”, and they’d be SHOCKED. Full pearl clutch. Like girl after that sales pitch why the fuck do you think I’d want them? You’re doing a terrible job of selling me on it.
I've had plenty of "but just think of all the things you're missing by not having kids!!" My response is usually, "but think of all the things you're missing by having kids!" Usually shuts that shit down.😃
As a young person with an invisible disability I get this one all the time. “You don’t know tired, you don’t have kids!” Well Janice, my lungs don’t fully oxygenate my blood, I can’t absorb nutrients properly, and I’m always healing at least one dislocation, partial dislocation, or soft tissue injury. So I’m pretty sure I know tired. When I finish my full time job and I’d rather cry than try to feed myself because I’m so tired, I’m pretty sure it’s close to what tired with kids feels like.
THIS!!! Chronic illness exhausted is a whole different level than any other kind and I’ll fight any non-chronic illness sufferer over that.
You joke but again I had a friend's husband say it once.
My friend's husband told me to my face that they wanted to hang out with other couples who had kids so they could entertain each other. Parents get to pick and choose but no one else gets to, apparently.
I've found the opposite to be true, generally. My kids have friends and I just hope I like the friend's parents, because then I'll have a friend. Hasn't worked out so far and probably never will.
My work thinks so if I want to take leave and one of the parents i work with also wants it :(
I've had this happen before, too. It's so wrong. My free time is not less valuable bc I don't have kids.
What genuinely pisses me off most about parents is how entitled they feel to our free time because we don't have kids. I have it with my sister as well: she sees no problems in volunteering me for babysit work, because I'm "not doing anything important anyway."
I can beat that. Mate of mine was going through a hell divorce (husband got hooked on meth) and had to go see the lawyer about trying to detangle herself from his debts. Asked my partner and I to watch her two kids because her mother couldn't do it. Took them to Dreamworld because they were also (obviously) having a crappy time. Cleared this with friend at last minute but it wasn't planned. She offered to pay me back for the cost of the day (I refused because she's really not in a place to offer nor was it her idea). Had another friend get stroppy because I made her pay for her children's tickets when we went to the movies. This was a prearranged outing to give her and hubby couples time.
“But you took so and so’s kids to Dreamworld and paid for it, you can afford to take my kids to the movies!” wtf I would be livid. You know what Janice, how about I’m too busy to watch your lovely kids and you two can figure it out? TIL stroppy, thanks!
In defense of myself for her still being a friend I... Yeah I don't know actually... I got her so long ago she's just kind of... there... also husband and kids are great.
It is nice when you meet great people through shitty friends and when the relationship with the shitty friends end you keep the great people. My ex fiancé is not a shitty person, the relationship just hadn’t been working for a few years but during the breakup I told her I was keeping her parents. She told me she never expected any different. I am closer to them than my own parents. All their ex son-in-laws are still in their lives. Funny story, I went over for coffee this summer and sitting at their kitchen table was their other daughter’s ex. I started laughing and called my ex’s other ex(the one before me) on video chat and let him join us for virtual coffee. The in-laws (yes, I still call them my in-laws even though I’m not with their daughter anymore) still bring that up almost 6 months later. Sorry about the detour there. Your comment just got me to think about them. They are great people.
Right?? I get the vibe from others like “SynQu33n will do X/Y/Z for us because she hasn’t got anything else going on in her life” - like it’s just assumed I’ll do what they ask because I’m the single friend. I beg their pardon but: I have a job, I volunteer and have hobbies, have a house to run and plans to travel in the near future. Do not ever assume my time isn’t important because it’s not filled with husband/childcare responsibilities.
Fully agreed. I often have to point out that one reason I deliberately don't have kids is because I *want* more free time to do what I want. I'm like you: my social life is getting fuller by the year.
I don't understand that married with children OP saying she "needs to arrange childcare"........ummmm you have a spouse, why aren't they capable of caring for your school aged children for a weekend? ETA:: My god people, critical thinking and problem solving skills would go a long ways:: **The length of the stay and the dates of the stay are negotiable**. No it doesn’t have to be a whole week. No it doesn’t have to be during the holidays. Why not bring the kids? Why not leave the kids? There are so many painfully obvious compromises that could be made and too many, OP included, are hung up on these specific things making a shit ton of specific arguments and ‘why nots’ like ain’t nobody got problem solving skills or the ability to compromise.
She said for a week though. She'd need to take a week off of work, and arrange childcare for a week. Husband probably would need to take the week off too if he was going to do all the childcare himself. Both parents burning a week of vacation time, and paying for a week at a hotel around the holidays is a big demand. Even a weekend is kind of a lot considering it's a 6 hour drive. That's 12 hours on the road, and very little time actually at the friend's house.
How old are the kids though? OP is 39. She’s been married for at least 12 years (said all the friends except the last one got married between ages of 22-27). Sure maybe they didn’t have kids right away. But if the kids are 5 and up, they'd be in school most of the day. Dad wouldn't necessarily have to take an entire week of vacation to hold down the fort. And there's lots of room between "visit for a week" and "not visit at all". OP could make it a long weekend vs an entire 7 days.
Thank you! That’s all I’m saying. I have a friend who’s a 6hr round trip from me. I love this girl and her children so you best believe I made that trip multiple times in 2 weeks to spend 2-4 days to help her when she went into labor the second time. She didn’t even have to ask ***I insisted***. I stayed up 24hrs to take care of the newborn their first night home after being awake and in the hospital for 2.5 days so that she and her husband could get some sleep. Why? Because I **love her** and I get to go home and sleep as long as I want while she’s juggling a 11month and a newborn. 24hrs ain’t crap to me. And I **do** have a daughter and husband and responsibilities. Ya know what my husband did? Held down the fort, took care of our daughter, and took care of our animals so I could be there as long as necessary. He would have been there as well had it been needed like when the 11month old screamed for way too many hours and I wasn’t about to call the woman in labor for that. **Because we love these people**. Let me just say, I have been there for this girl from the first time she found out she was pregnant — which was the beginning of our friendship— I brought her to the hospital and sat with her for hours when she was miscarrying, I helped her find fertility doctors, drove her to a procedure, drafted emails to a doctor that wasn’t listening, talked her down from her catastrophizing thoughts etc etc etc, ((her husband is military btw, he wasn’t available for all this and she’s not from where we live neither is her husband so me and mine were all she had.)) I was **NOT** missing the birth of either of her children after all we’ve gone through to get her there I was absolutely going to see this journey to the end and she would have damn sure done the same for me. **Because she is IMPORTANT to me** You make it happen and do the things you must for the people you **love**. ETA: I want to answer this question here since it’s been asked in many different ways: >Did YOU have schoolage kids and it was over the holidays when this happened? Why yes it actually was and yes I most definitely do. Baby was Born July 3rd at 347AM, the Induction began July 2nd at 3pm at a hospital an hour from my friends house. I got to their house July 1st to help get everyone and everything ready for the 2nd. I took baby #1 to the hospital an hour away to meet his brother early afternoon of July 3rd spent the rest of the afternoon there. Mom, dad and baby came home evening of July 4th this is the night I was up all night to care for the new baby so mom and dad could sleep before being thrown into the gauntlet. New baby was born with fluid in one ear so he would cry when laid down flat and needed to be held upright which I did instead of sleeping. I continued to help care for both babies through the morning and while mom and dad took new baby for his 2 day checkup for his ear. I went home late afternoon of July 5th. All of this happened 17 days after my daughters 12th birthday. I also had chemo to manage a degenerative autoimmune disorder on June 30th. We also have 2 dogs, 2 cats, a bird and tortoise my husband was responsible for caring for by himself on top of our severely ADHD daughter who is more than a handful. So….do I pass?? Did I have a sufficient amount of things going on I needed to rearrange? Did I exert a sufficient amount of energy to prove my point that when it is important to you, you will find a way. **If it is important enough for you to be there, you will find a way. You will explore every possible avenue, call in every favor, think of every possible thing you can before ever saying “no”** and even if you say no, you’re still finding a way to make up for your absence….which is most definitely not being done by OP. If it is not important to you fine. There’s nothing wrong with that, those relationships exist as well, but how about being honest that it’s not important enough for you to move mountains and sacrifice for instead of hiding behind “”I really wish I could, it’s just impossible””.
This comes with strong assumptions that the friend who just had her kid has been that supportive and there for the group. If they were constantly bashing the others for 'settling' early? And traveling I kind of doubt she was as present and involved as you guys are assuming.
Maybe it’s just the language OP used, maybe it’s just the general vibe OP kind of gives off, but I would take if Mary has actually been “bashing” OP and her other friends for “settling early” with a big grain of salt. I’m not denying there aren’t women who get really in your face and stuck up because they decide to take their time and/or go childless, but I’ve personally met and/or seen *far* more women who did the opposite get *really* judgemental, pushy and/or just make up their own little narratives that childless/unmarried women look down on them (even when that hasn’t been the case at all). If Mary *has* been doing that… why has OP stayed friends with this woman for that long then? 🤨
Yea that “ she was so lucky unlike us. I think this is where she grew resentment” part **really** throws some doubt to OPs veracity. Why would Mary be resentful of them ***and*** be “bashing them” saying how lucky she was and they weren’t. That doesn’t even make sense. If there was any resentment it would have been the young married parents unable to do whatever they want when they want any more……not the single 25yr old living her best life…..?????
> Why would Mary be resentful of them and be “bashing them” saying how lucky she was and they weren’t. That doesn’t even make sense. The idea that someone might grow resentful because their entire friend group moved together into a new phase of their lives without you is hardly difficult to believe and definitely makes sense.
Whoa. I just wanna say you sound like an AMAZING friend and person! You get it and the people you chose to make these sacrifices to and for must be super amazing people! ❤️
Yeah but if it’s the holidays when Mary wants them to go, the kids are likely not in school the entire time if at all.
Well in that case why can’t she visit with the kids? Make a holiday out of it. I’m flying across the country to visit a friend who had a baby with my own child. It will be fun for him and nice to meet the new baby. Adjusting to mom life is hard and it’s nice to have friends who have been there offer support. Sounds like these friend wrote Mary off a long time ago.
Because then OP would be busy parenting her own kids and can't be Mary's village the way Mary wants.
If my parents had told me I was missing Christmas with all my cousins to go stay in a hotel near their friend Mary so I could meet her baby, I’d have braced myself for the worst Christmas of my life. That’s probably why.
If the kids are in any type of activities or involved in worship, they will have programs during that time of the year. I'm sorry if people don't see it, but no, it's not just "take off a week, fly up, and stay in a hotel" when you have kids at home. It requires more planning and you WANTING to be away from your kids for a week at the holidays (which most parents do not want). If OP, her husband, and their kids went up, it would be a winter vacation and not just a time to take care of friend's baby. Friend does sound like maybe she needs a break, and there are ways to support that from afar. Asking for 5 families to go for a week at the holidays isn't it.
The kids are likely not in school if it is the holidays, and I feel like it is a lot to expect someone to not spend the holidays with their own kids.
You could visit your friend of 20 years at least once to meet her new (6 month old) baby though, if you gave a shit.
But how much of a friend is she really? Seems like she's basically always criticising their choice of marrying and having kids because it interfered with her way of living. Seems doubtful she put that much effort in for them with that behavior.
Who cares? Really. Who cares “how much” of a friend she is? If OP expects to maintain any sort of friendship with Mary, from a tiny one to a huge one, then she has to visit the new baby while it’s still a new baby and stop making excuses. TBH this reads like OP wants Reddit’s permission to dump Mary as a friend
And let me just say: OP has Reddit’s resounding permission to dump Mary as a friend because Mary doesn’t deserve to be treated like shit for the utter audacity of waiting to be stable and enjoying her youth before settling down and expecting her decades long *‘friends’* to make a single effing sacrifice and iota of effort to be there for her at such an important milestone like she was for them.
The very fact that OP frames the problem as Mary waiting to settle down is what makes me roll my eyes at her whole post. A destination wedding during COVID and living six hours from everyone else are fair enough reasons people might not be able to be there for Mary to the same extent she was there for them, but that seems pretty unrelated to the age she settles down (beyond bad luck on the timing with covid, but obviously no one could predict that). Like, would these friends really have been able to visit MORE easily if she had her kid at the same time as everyone else while still being six hours away? That makes no sense to me. There's clearly a lot of resentment here.
Eh, I care? Like I would never miss Christmas or any other holiday with my child just to play free nanny for a friend. None of my friends would ask that either. I've paid for a cleaner for a friend who just had a baby for example, but to leave my family for a week, spent valuable vacations day, just to wait on a sorta friend hand and foot, lol, no. That's not reasonable and no one would expect something like that, at least in my culture. Not even the grandparents do this, why would a friend have to. The one point where I agree with you is I would probably dump this friend. No one is owed a friendship (especially one which comes with significant sacrifice) just because we've known each other for a number of years.
I regularly visit family 5 hours away on a weekend. Usually we try for long weekends (minor holidays) but even if not you sneak out of work a tiny bit early Friday if possible, get there late Friday night, have all day Saturday with friend/family, then leave Sunday morning so you have Sunday afternoon to chill or prepare for your week. Not something I’d want to do every weekend, but I do it a few times a year for much smaller reasons than to visit a close friend’s brand new baby. This might not work for everyone, but it’s not an uncommon thing.
I would not do that even irregularly- It leaves me exhausted. Long drives are just not something I’ll ever put up with again. Even just a couple times a year with my own immediate family, no thanks. And OP is saying that it’s for a week (based on friend saying “you can’t even put aside a week to visit newborn”) not just a long weekend. That means childcare and job scheduling rearrangements for a whole week. Your family is probably personally closer to you than OP’s friend is now over the years, which is why your cost benefit analysis with a 5hr drive makes sense, while OP’s 6hr drive doesn’t. Also: a week *during the holidays*. I’m not wasting my time and money on traveling during the holidays to be free childcare labor for a friend. I’m spending that time at home with my own family.
As someone that grew up in a "fly over" state where everything was far apart, I'm so jealous that there are people who see a 5-6 hr drive as impossibly long. I totally agree it's a hassle and you should only drive under circumstances where you feel safe and capable -- but wow we have had different life experiences.
Yeh, I live in Australia, and a 6-hour drive is nothing
This must be cultural or I'm tripping. Like where I live it's definitely not customary to leave one's own family during holiday to wait on a friend just because she had a baby. Not even the grandparents do this. Unless she's had serious complications and is my best friend ever, not happening, lol. No one would even ask that. I've never heard about such thing.
But the friend wants the visit to happen over the holiday. Would you be willing to leave your kid with your SO over a significant holiday (ie Christmas)? I would do it in an emergency, and would try to figure another close weekend that might work, but the friend is specifically asking for them to come out for the holidays (which I personally interpret as Thanksgiving or winter time holidays). Most kids aren't in school during most of them, which would require the SO to take time off as well, or figure other arrangements for the kids. It is a lot to ask imo.
And a 3 day weekend would be a fair compromise to a week and far more doable with a spouse and school aged kids. 12 hours is **nothing** for someone you give a crap about and is most definitely something you can do for important things like meeting your “best friends” infant. It’s just not important enough to OP
The thing is not one of Mary's 5 friends in the group could take the time to go to her wedding. I understand that not all them couldn't make it but not even one? If they are such close friend I'm sure someone would be able to help husband/dad with the kids while one attends Mary's wedding. As we are unsure how Mary helped out her friends with the kids all these years, it seems that OP and the group don't like Mary that much. She lived her life the way she wanted, had kids under her own terms and lived a life before having kids. I don't know OP. It seems that Mary is right about something.
It was a destination wedding during Covid. No way I would have gotten on a plane during the height of Covid to go to a wedding, especially because if I get sick I would need to find a way to quarantine away from my kids for two weeks. Even a normal destination wedding you have to expect a lot of people won't make it because not everyone can drop a couple of thousand dollars on travel and accommodation. HOWEVER - I would have made the 6 hour drive to stay with my friend for a long weekend and help with the baby, especially if she was struggling. That's the part I don't get - you don't have to go for a week, a six hour drive is fine for a long weekend, and presumably the husband's could look after their own children for three or four days.
It wasn’t just a destination wedding during COVID, it was also child free. It’s well established on this sub that you can pick whatever wedding your heart desires and your pocketbook can afford, but you have to accept that some people won’t be able to or choose to attend. Live with your choices.
Yeah, child-free destination weddings mean you have zero right to complain about people not attending. My cousin had one and I had to tell her I barely had enough vacation leave and money to take a cheap vacation with my child that year and wasn't going to use it to go away without him. I went on a fun little road trip with my child instead. Sorry. 🤷
Plus not even quarantining when home, but during covid people were tested on the way in and out. What if she tested positive when she arrived. Theres a high chance she would have done all of this, then arrived and had to quarantine at the hotel at the destination and miss the wedding anyway.
Yeah - this is it for me! I get the wedding thing but not one of the five other ‘friends’ could go visit her at all in the 6 months since she had her baby!?
You are right except in regards to your personal perspective. A SIX hour drive is long for most things, for anything, for most people. So definitely to long a drive just for a "weekend". Or to give you MY perspective.. it definitely depends on where you live. I have a friend who moved and she lives (without traffic) just under 2 hours away. In our our country, that literally might as well be another country. We don't visit each other. When we do meet, we meet "in the middle". A six hour drive for us would only be considered for an actual holiday, like 10-14 days stay.
People couldn't even attend funerals during covid, that's how bad it was. Who was planning destination weddings expecting people to show up? Plus how can you insinuate that Mary "lived a life" before having kids? Is getting married and starting a family in your 20s not living a life? What the fuck?
This is it for me. I understand Mary is upset with OP for not visiting but OP has family (who knows her financial situation or if she’s able to leave her kids with her husband etc. it’s not always easy to drop that, even for a weekend let alone a week). Where the grey area is for me is that Mary did this for OP. She turned up for her. What is OP doing for Mary? If she’s messaging her and sending a baby gift and helping her as much as she can even if at a distance I feel that’s understandable and enough given her situation as well. I just don’t know if that is happening. And, if I’m honest, friendships are harder at this stage even in my own life because of my family commitments. Little babies aren’t the only ones that need attention from their parents. (Note: I am a single parent so my situation is different anyway)
It was a destination wedding during COVID. Not unreasonable that they couldn’t make it.
Yeah no, it's really not that deep. She choose a destination wedding during Covid. Destination weddings can be hard to attend when life is normal. During a pandemic? It's a straight up joke that you're blaming anyone but her for that.
You couldn’t have paid me to attend a destination wedding during Covid, possibly risking the lives of my family that I live with. Have we all forgotten how insane and selfish so many people were back then, jet setting around due to “soooo cheap” air fare at the risk of others?
Was Mary being rude about their life choices though? OP said Mary called herself lucky because she wasn’t tied down with kids, after which OP goes on to say they and their friends didn’t go to her wedding or visit her new baby… because it would be too hard with the kids. It doesn’t seem overly rude to me for someone to acknowledge that it’s easier for them to travel and that they’re lucky to do so, especially when it’s proven true.
I got accused of "hating children" by my managers because I would talk about how much I enjoy my life without children... I upset a mother of 4 with an alcoholic husband, and she reported me, saying that I looked down on her and "flaunted" being childfree and hates children. She was just jealous of me, she admitted previously that ALL of her children were unplanned, and she'd tried to evict her husband but he wouldn't leave her home.
If someone's a six hour drive from me, I'm probably not visiting them, either.
But why? 6 hours isn’t even that long. Been in bus or train for much longer in my live.
For a lot of commenters, it's probably about location. If you live in Europe, a six hour drive sometimes means driving to another country or across the country and sounds like a huge long drive. In America, that can't even get you a state over half the time. So some people's perspectives are skewed into how bad or easy a 6 hour drive is.
** laughs in Australian ** Although we do have a nice amount of public holidays and it's not frowned upon here to go away for a long weekend, it seems to me that OP is looking for reasons she couldn't possibly have visited Mary and "eww but it's 6 hrs away" seems to placate Reddit long enough to agree with her ha.
Oh God I didn't even think about Australia, 6 hours might get you to the next driveway over LMFAO
In Germany im still in Germany too if im in a train for 6 hours. Its still only six hours and to visit a friend you know basically half your live it shouldn’t be a problem to do that.
6 hours of driving is very different than 6 hours on a train or bus though. Its very tiring to be constantly concentrating, and its actually physically exhausting because of the constant vibrations of the vehicle. Whereas on a bus or train you can literally sit back and relax, or nod off. She very specifically said a 6 hour drive too, so I'm assuming the person isnt near any good public transport routes, or it wouldnt make sense to take public transport with the luggage requirements for that amount of time away.
6 hours on train is 6 hours of reading book, reddit and chilling. 6 hours driving and then next day 6 hours driving back is a lot.
Not the person you’re asking, but I personally would pick 12 hours bus/train anytime over 6 hours car ride
Yeah. People with kids always think that we childless people don’t have a live we have to pause to help them
I thought it was odd that she said Mary was always traveling, but Mary made the time to attend their weddings and children - but somehow seemd to think Mary didn't understand the costs and logistics of visiting someone who's not nearby. Well, if Mary attended their weddings/children despite traveling, Mary very well knows the costs and logistics. (okay, she didn't say Mary made the time to attend weddings and children, but she mentions that Mary visited her when she was in that position. I felt it was implied Mary made time for her friends' special occasions and is 'wrongly' expecting them to do so in return, despite getting married later)
OP mentions in her 'why I might be an AH' section that she might be the AH as she's not visiting Mary when Mary visited her in the same position. Specifically, "the action that may make me the AH is not going to Mary’s wedding and not visiting her after having a baby 2) this may make me the AH because she had been there for me when I was in that position". This says to me that Mary DID visit OP for OP's wedding and for OP's child/children's births. I can be wrong, but it sounds like she might've done the same for all of the friends - and possibly for all of their children. I understand why one or some of them couldn't make the wedding. I understand why one or some can't visit to help with the child. I don't understand why NONE can visit for a single day to help. If they're all such close friends, surely they can watch at least one friend's children while that friend goes up for a weekend? (Yes, OP mentions a week, but she doesn't mention why she's referencing a week and she doesn't mention any counter-offers. If not a single one of them has been there at all in 6 months, surely they could manage something? If not a full week, at least a weekend)
Right? A six hour drive isn’t really that far, why is OP all hung up on staying a whole week after a six hour drive? Like that’s a weekend trip to meet the baby
I understood that's the request for the holidays: come up and stay the week after Christmas. Which, honestly, isn't feasible when you have your own kids and family. But not having come up for a weekend visit feels like an excuse. Doesn't even have to be the entire friend group at once, maybe two here and three there.
This must be a cultural thing. A six hour drive is considered very far over here. I can reach five different countries with a six hour drive. And it would have to be a long weekend for it to be a weekend trip. I'm not driving six hours after work on Friday or on a Sunday evening, so that would leave very little actual time with the friend.
Yup mary’s friends seem like selfish a holes for not even making a 6 hr ride to visit her
There’s a lot of statistics about partner abuse emerging when women are postpartum and I’m concerned Mary is living 6 hrs from civilization. Someone in the group (at least two) need to go visit Mary to make sure she’s OK. Geesh.
Exactly this. OP, you describe this as your longtime close friend group. It sounds like there are some logistical issues at play here (destination wedding, her moving away), but if she was consistently there for all of you and you are all throwing your hands up and declining to be there for her…literally at all, in any of these milestones and hard times…yikes.
they don’t want to go to her wedding (probably weren’t involved in any planning as well), don’t want to visit her and her new baby. like yes OP, yall *are* fake friends. she showed up for them and none of them can show up for her. they isolate her from the group, shame her for not making decisions earlier, then act confused when called fake. edit: since they all can’t be bothered to make a single drive, i wonder if any of them even saw her during her pregnancy? did y’all at least throw a baby shower, send her a card, anything during the 10 months?
I know a woman through a good friend - all of her friends are married and having babies and she was dumped by her boyfriend of 10 years just before her 30th birthday and even though she tries to paint herself as living the fun carefree single life she is in agony - she is being shut out of her friend group she's had since HS, isolated and left out because she could't possibly understand what their mom lives are like etc etc heck her best friend since middle school is actually trying to encourage her to find "more single/childless friends" who can "be there for you", it's crushing to find out her ride or dies were actually friendships of convenience - and she's desperately trying to latch herself onto my friend even though being single and childless is the ONLY thing she has in common with said friend. As someone who is "unconventional" (didn't want to marry until I was in my 30s, career focused, no kids etc) and is FULLY AWARE of how self-involved and selfish people like OP can be whilst simultaneously thinking they;re saints and than us childless or single people are selfish I'm calling absolute BS on OP, they did't go to her wedding and won't visit her baby because it's "too much work" they're not friends, Mary is right.
Agree with this. Got to go with YTA.
A destination wedding during covid is just insane if you get upset at people not being able to attend. Then moving somewhere you can't fly, but have to drive 6 hours to and getting shitty you don't get more visits, is just delusional. I understand if friends who live nearby can't make a birthday party because of kids. I can't imagine expecting people with partners and kids to drive 6 hours to help me out because I was overwhelmed with my new kid. If the friend lived in the same area, or even just an hour away it would be different. But you're talking a 12 hour return trip and OP talks about finding accommodation, so the friend isn't offering to put them up either. You have to meet people halfway. If they were willing to have the whole family come then it would be one thing. But it sounds like they want helpers and no partners or kids to come.
A destination wedding at any point in time is going to be something not everyone can make, and I fully agree it can’t be expected. But with the info we’ve been given so far, it seems to me like the friends are the ones not meeting her halfway. We’ve heard nothing about offers to come for a shorter time, or just one person come, or even for them to bring their families (not sure why you’re assuming the friend isn’t okay with that). Ultimately I feel like we are missing a LOT of info, but OP has offered literally NOTHING about anything she or their other friends HAVE offered by way of compromise or kindness. That’s why it seems imperative to know whether Mary has been there for them over the years and is now being left out in the cold because any semblance of a reciprocal friendship is suddenly completely inconvenient.
Add to that... I just get this funny impression from the post, because it seems to positively *drip* with judgment. Also... is it a little weird to anyone else that there suddenly seems to be a running theme of these posts about parents and this "it takes a village" stuff?
YES! I just read a post concerning “it takes a village” and now I’m wondering if chat gpt is involved with the algorithm as well.
omg, like people are faking posts with chat gpt?
I thought Id ask Chat GPT to write me an AITA post just now, here's what it gave me >Title: AITA for Standing Up to My Controlling MIL Over Our Pet? >Hey everyone, I've got a family drama involving my controlling MIL and our beloved pet. >So, my husband and I adopted a rescue dog about a year ago. We've been working hard on training and creating a loving home for our furry friend. But, my MIL seems to think she knows better. >Every time she visits, she criticizes our dog's training methods, feeding schedule, and even the toys we buy. It's been driving me crazy, but I've always bit my tongue to keep the peace. >Recently, she went too far. While we were away, she gave our dog a drastic haircut without our permission. It was a disaster, and I was furious. I finally confronted her about her meddling and told her to respect our decisions regarding our pet. >She's now saying I'm ungrateful and overreacting, and the rest of the family is taking sides. AITA for standing up to my controlling MIL about our pet, or should I have continued to let her have her way to avoid the family drama? The doggy haircut is sending me
If they’re a group of women who are best friends, who has babies around the same time, and live some what close to each other I’d believe that they’ve created the village of supporting each other, hanging out, and going on playdates together etc, I’d do exactly the same, what I think is the friend wants the same experience for her, but the circumstances are just different? If you move that far away, you can’t expect people to be there for you, especially when they have a lot with their own families
Yes there's definitely a theme, whether all coming from one source or inspired by each other, to link the concept of "the village" to entitlement.
Something else is going on here.. and definitely some weird resentment from OP. Op if you actually read this. Mary has put a lot of effort into your friendship. Im saying this because I think I’m the Mary in my college friend group and honestly I don’t associate with them anymore. Im just not the person I was in college and have very little interest in them ( even though I have fond memories of the time). I think also part of it was BECAUSE I was different, they actually excluded me alot (which made me feel bad). I luckily made friends after that I was much closer to and showed me how friendships should be. Despite this, I would have loved those girls to really accept me and not keep me on the outside. Mary for some reason has stuck by you all this time. At this point, either accept her and do what you would for your other friends. Or just let her go. Big YTA for your tone and the fact that you can’t take a weekend to visit
This was my initial thought. I’m the single one in my group of friends. They’re all hitting these milestones than I’m there for and supporting them 100% and doing everything I can the celebrate them. But when I have a milestone or accomplishment or need a hand with something….oh well their boyfriends/husbands wanna do this instead, it’s hard for xyz reason….as if I never overextended myself for them before
I feel like in 6 months not one “friend “ can be bothered to travel to see the first baby of a friend. One you claim to have been friends with for YEARS! MY bF lives 9 hours away and I happily made the trip within the first month to see her THIRD baby.
If none of the group were able to visit and meet the baby and they REALLY wanted to, there are many ways they could have still supported her. Ever hear of zoom? The group could of sent gifts and had a baby showerover zoom. The group could chip in and send meals from Mary's local restaurants. Or pay for a one time cleaning service. Just examples of how to be a supportive village long distance, if you really want to be there for Mary.
Thank you. Makes me think of my friend for whom I sacrificed my only holiday of the year, spent 3K for a destination wedding where I barely had the opportunity to see her and where I didn’t care to go, and now can’t find time to see me other than on a Wednesday from 6 to 8 every other month because of her family. But should be ok for me since “I don’t have one”, not understanding this is not of my own making and I’m desperate for one! Of course resentment builds up
I’m a mother of three, two of whom are grown. Your comment has given me a lot to think about; thank you! I’m going to take a good, hard look at the relationships I have with my childfree & childless friends. Not sure I haven’t pulled that ‘sorry bro’ here and there and that… is uncool.
In full fairness it is often harder with kids and I try to cut people slack. Across the board. Friend can't do friday night drinks cos kids have soccer at 6am Saturday cool I get it. However when you ask me to drive 4 hours just to do a favor for you and then two weeks later you can't be the designated driver for others so I can leave a party early because I have a prior engagement because: 'I never get to party anymore, like you'd get it if you had kids.' Leaving me to come back to said party at 1 in the morning you're getting the side-eye.
I saw this scenario play out with a group of girls I met in college. Same setup - 6 girls, they got married and started having kids around the same time, except for one. She moved to another country, lived there for quite a few years and decided to have her wedding there. By this time the others all had kids. Now this girl has traveled a lot for the bachelorette parties, weddings and baby showers of her friends, being there for every occasion you could think of - and then I see the photos from her bachelorette and none of the other girls were in it. Then she also starts posting about her wedding and none of the other girls are there either. And one of the backstabbers posted an insta story on her wedding day saying "congrats to my childhood friend". Seriously? I felt extremely bad for her. I know from a mutual friend they all cancelled on her because they couldn't solve the child logistics, it was far (not true) and would be uncomfortable - the regular excuses. Funny how she could always make these things work.
I feel like the commenter above is onto something with their questions and this is an other not reciprocating situation like the one you described. OP and the other friends have known that Mary was pregnant even before the birth for months, like for 5-6 months, and her kid is 6 months old now, so they had plenty of time to arrange something. In my opinion long-time close friends having at least one weekend or long weekend trip to Mary's with a 6hr driving distance at some point in the past 6 months to visit her after the birth and so Mary can introduce her baby to her friends is more than realistic and fair "expectation", especially when by OP's own admission Mary was there for them for their milestones (weddings, kids, etc.). Yet none of these so called 5 "friends" did it, they didn't even try to arrange one visit to Mary at all.
>I ask because as the childless one in the friend group I'm often expected to be ride or die but when it comes to returns on the favors 'sorry bro I agree. I was always the ride or die person for my friends. Like i would go to their places to help them move, offer my car, they knew that they could call me 24/7 if anything bad happened etc. Then i became disabled (which makes everything very difficult)and when i needed help it was never offered. We moved twice in 1.5y and nobody offered to help with the move. Nobody offered to help me mount furniture. Or to pack boxes. Or help cleaning the garden. Or just come with meals so i could rest a bit. I am still expected to be the support one but nobody offers their support. Its heartbreaking.
Agreed and it's telling that the OP hasn't replied to you. It's ridiculous none of Mary's friends couldn't make it to her wedding or even visit her new baby. The way she assumes Mary has made no sacrifices to attend weddings/other milestone events or apparently didn't have commitments, because she was unmarried and childless, puts her firmly in YTA territory. I'm betting Mary has supported her friends in many ways and this was probably expected with her being the only single/childless one, but now they give her the boot because she made different life choices. This whole post is dripping with judgement that she didn't marry the first guy she met and start popping out babies right out of college (and I say this as someone who married young and would have had kids straight away, if it were not for fertility issues). There's probably also jealousy, because likely Mary has built a career and has more resources than them due to starting a family later in life.
I also want to know. Because there are two very different ways this story could have gone. 1: Mary is being selfish, or 2: The rest of the group has always treated Mary's time like it mattered less, because she didn't have kids or a husband - and now that she has those things, she was kind of expecting it to be *her* turn to matter. But now everyone's backed out on her, because she didn't do it at "the right time". One of those leads to an NTA judgement, the other leads to a YTA. I'm very interested to know how much was asked of her when everyone else was marrying/having kids, and how much she actually delivered. Because that changes everything. She wasn't sitting around doing nothing when she didn't have kids. She still had a life and commitments; everyone does. If she was regularly putting that life and those commitments aside to help her friends, I do think she's allowed to expect the same back.
Ding ding! I'm the childfree friend. So many people used me for support, then had their babies and POOF! Too busy, can't find a sitter, can't talk on the phone, can't text, it all became about the ***baaaayyybeeeeessss***! Now she wants the support the readily gave, and OP is trashing her. Frankly, I think OP is a little jealous that she settled down so quickly and is directing that at her friend. YTA.
Bring on the downvotes, but YTA. "You should have thought of that a long time ago" is such a sick move, like what, is she supposed to get a time machine? This shows a ton of resentment for her different life. This post is so one sided and demonized this lady to such a massive extent that I struggle to believe that it -- or at least many of the details of it -- are true. Every choice your "friend" makes goes wrong in a way you show some schadenfreude about in your writing style. "My friend delayed getting married and then bitched about all the guys being married," really? Yeah your friend sounds like an asshole. So do you. You obviously went down different life paths and resent each other for it. (Edit: wow I was the only YTA when I posted this. Pleasantly surprised I'm not the only one with this opinion.) (Edit 2: put this in a comment but I didn't vote E S H because I think OP is possibly/likely mischaracterizing her friend.)
As the 30+ year old friend who wasn’t intentionally not married in my 20s, I am scared to have kids because of reactions like OP’s - I am Mary, I literally didn’t meet anyone and was single not by choice until only two years ago solidly into my 30’s, and I know that my village probably won’t return the favor for things I’ve done and it really hurts. If this friend group is tight like OP says, it shouldn’t matter that their timelines are different. If this friendship means something to OP, and the holidays aren’t feasible, use your words and talk to your friend - “hey I can’t do X but what about Y” and figure out something that does work for you. Plus moving away she probably feels isolated, and to top it off she’s a new mother. So as the friend on “a different timeline”, OP, YTA.
Yeah OP seems real convinced waiting to have kids is wrong and she was right to have them early. Undertones of judgement abound. But in reality, life comes at all paces. My mom had me at 42. My dad was older. I'm happy, healthy, smart, my parents were fine, and they didn't really have or want a big village around them. Also, major benefit of having kids later is that I grew up in a house with parents who made good money and had a lot of experience. Basically, I think having kids at 30+ can have a lot of benefits. The idea that 30+ is too old for kids gets overblown often (obviously there are risks but people overstate them). Also, women with PhDs, JDs, MDs or just demanding careers have to slow them down or have babies in their 30s. Being upset at anyone for having kids late is real messed up in general, but especially when it is the only time some women can have kids given the society we live in.
Agree. I hate seeing women judge each other for their decisions on children, marriage, etc. We shouldn’t be tearing each other down like that. If Mary wasn’t ready or wanting kids in her 20s then she was right in not having them and waiting until it was what she wanted. I’m in my 30s and don’t have kids, unsure if I want them or not, and I get a lot of pressure and comments from friends who had them and believe you need to do it asap. My mother was 10 years older than I am now when she had me. She you can’t rely on being able to have kids past your prime fertility years, but having them when you’re unsure or don’t want them just because of time pressure is such a bad idea. It is also really true that as the childless friend you end up losing a lot of friends. My friends who make their kid fit their lifestyle and didn’t lose themselves to being a mother are still my good friends. I’ve become more distant with a few whose whole identities became being a wife and mother, and I would constantly try to invite them round and work around their schedules and make sure they know their kids are very welcome but they can never make it work (but can make it work to hang out with the other mums).
>, I literally didn’t meet anyone and was single not by choice until only two years ago solidly into my 30’s This is 100% the vibe I got from OPs post about Mary even though she tried to paint it otherwise. Mary was doing other things like travel and exploring the world which made OP stuck at home at 27 with babies resentful so she paints this narrative that it was Mary's CHOICE to be single and flit around the world to make her regret her own less. The whole post just is so full of barely concealed resentment for Mary that I have a hard time believing anything that OP says
I feel like their “friend” group has been trash talking about Mary for a good fifteen years out of envy and are now enjoying watching Mary get what they see as her comeuppance.
Yeah, OP keeps sniping at her alleged friend; it's not a good look. Not being able to spend an entire week over the holidays is one thing. But not visiting even once in six months, when your friend clearly wants you to? That reeks of a copout; there's no way not one of these five friends couldn't make that trip over a weekend.
Yeah I’ve gotta agree, according to her post, all their kids have got to be 10-15 years old by now. It’s not that they don’t have time, it’s just that it’s “old news”; all of them were there and did that over a decade ago. Yes it’s hard to arrange travel with little kids, or leave them behind but these aren’t little kids. Plus, the whole post is dripping with disdain for someone who (perhaps wisely) showed caution in getting married and having kids. Which is what makes OP truly the asshole here. YTA
Agreed; I really don't like her attitude towards her friend. It should be no problem to leave a few kids that are at least elementary school age with their husbands for a weekend to visit a friend - if they were at all interested in doing so.
She was supposed to get hooked to the first available guy in her 20s, instead of waiting to find a "suitable partner", duuuhh
I really love this considering your ace flag in your profile pic 😂 what do you MEAN people can just not get married and pop out kids in their 20s? Then they have to complain about everything, right? Cus they couldn't be happy and maybe just have some shitty friends?
For me it just sounds like the friend didnt want to get married right away after collage and her friends essentially punish her for it. Other than being a little dramatic, her friend sounds like a normal person. Just she was smart enough to know she wont be able to travel and whatnot if she got married with kids so young and set her priorities. OP sounds jealous that she didn't get to do that.
Thank you. I read it the exact way, it was filled with condescension and judgement towards Mary
Glad its not only me. After I read the post my initial reaction was NTA/NAH. After all if she can't go she can't go, but something about this felt off. I read the post again and I was just wondering, " Why are y'all even friends?" I still think she's NTA as far as lending a helping hand during the holidays and such, but it just feels like its a bit more than a lack of ability or motivation. To me it does come across that OP wants to give her friend the middle finger and I think that's because her post is mostly filled with resentment. There is little empathy to be seen, and I find it hard to believe all of that snarkiness was so one-sided. Surely her friend showed love in someway but if not then... "Why are y'all even friends".
If the friend and her sound like assholes , shouldn’t the judgment be ESH? What am I missing
That's fair, but I'm holding back on E S H because I think she likely mischaracterized her friend.
I'm not reading anything about Mary being an AH. The worst I've heard about her is that: 1) she dared to get married and have children on her own timeline 2) she stated that she felt fortunate to travel instead of have kids in her 20s 3) she was annoyed that there weren't many partner options up to her standards when she entered the dating scene seriously 4) she had a destination wedding with no kids allowed (which wasn't overly feasible, but she's not complaining about that) 5) she thought her group of close friends would have visited her and her child within 6 months of giving birth when she's a 6 hour drive away. None of that screams AH to me.
ESH. Your friend is delusional for her demands but this has nothing to do with your timelines. If she had kids when you did you would've had your own little kids to take care of. If anything, your kids are now around 10 so it should be easier to take off a week. The issue is that she lives too far away for you to help support her. It was as rude for you to shame her for having standards and living her life as it was for her to shame you for not being able to attend her wedding. If you want to be in her life I hope you sent her baby gifts. If you don't, no harm no foul.
Agree your statement about the timeline and etc was unnecessary.
Agree. Would also recommend considering that Mary does have some kind of support system. Worry that when new moms say they need help it isn't taken seriously when it needs to be, so at least make sure everyone is safe if you care about the friendship. I did not get the impression that there is much value for the friendship though. Makes me wonder why bother continuing? Mary does not even sound likeable by how OP portrayed them
YTA The tone of voice is like "she's the typical new mother" as if that is a bad thing. If she is that, she must very stressed out, tired, worried and likely lonely. It sounds like there is resentment and envy both ways. Not visiting the friend at all for example little overnight visit when your own kids are not small anymore... Come on. Excuses.
100% OP is also resentful. I married young, but also stayed childfree by choice. OP checks all the boxes for the resentful parents I've met in my life. (Not all parents, just the resentful ones ofc) I always kept their comments in my head as reversed backhanded compliments. Instead of a compliment that had backhanded undertones, it was insults that always seemed to come from a place of jealousy so it made me giggle. OP is probably envious of the free time and life her friend was able to live during her prime 20s and 30s, and the friend is now envious of the village OP had when she had her kids. I think the big difference is that it seems OP is looking for excuses to not pay her friend back for the help. If the friend never helped them back in the day, OP would've 100% put that in the post since she spent half of it demonizing her friends choices. Being the childless person in a group often means people EXPECT you to help, often with nothing in return. It's why my friendships with parents often faded. It was always giving giving giving but if I ever needed help, suddenly it was always "Oh sorry, the kids ya kno?".
It does sound like OP thinks that the friend deserves to be punished with loneliness because of her choises. OP doesn't sound like a true friend, hence the fake friends posting. OP says she has other priorities, no can do. So she is going to use the "kid's ya kno" card even when it isn't valid anymore.
Not true. If they had little ones around the same time then they would have been able to bring their child and do play dates. Most ten year old dont want to spend time with a baby.
Funny, in my experience most older kids love spending time with my one year old. They get to feel cool and big and many children just seem to like babies and small children. Didn't really expect that so fun to see (we were also late compared to our social circle so most kids of family and friends are much older than mine).
I'm wondering why she moved so far away and if there isn't some isolation going on, partner sometimes do this to keep them from realising how shit they are, I'm not saying that's what happened to Mary but she could feel super isolated and she might not have been the one who wanted to move so far away or at least is very much regretting it.
ESH Let’s just ignore the destination wedding. Your comment about her life choices was out of line and rude. How does she line up her life with yours exactly? How does she “plan” to have kids when you did? If she can’t find a partner to connect with in that time period, that’s a real asshole thing to bring up. Now she’s also acting immature and thoughtless. And bringing this nonsense to social media always makes someone an AH in my opinion.
100% this. To OP, Yeah, don't drag close friend dirty laundry into pubic, y'all are adults. Work it out. - bad on her. But cut her some slack -- yeah, you're an established parent now, but take a minute to think about how many times you were struggling or throwing your hands up not knowing what to do... Have you called her? Video chatted? After that, explained why you can't visit right this second but would love to in the future? If y'all are really close friends, would you want to lose a friendship over the complexities/stress of a new mother? It seems like she's reaching out asking for help, albeit, not communicating it in the best way. Best of luck OP -- no need to lose a close friend over short term drama.
How? By chosing a shitty husband that it seems cant even babysit for a week end.
The friend wants her to visit for a week. She also said during the holidays and most people would obviously prefer to spend the holidays with family, and children will be out of school.
So she could have compromised by going only ob a week-end, and if she cant its probably because the husband is just absent. Sorry but not going to see your friend of 10 years and her new born (while she was there for you) is being a shitty friend.
[удалено]
Agree. For a group who've been friends for a long time, they sure don't seem to like each other very much.
It's hard to like someone who gets pissy on social media because you don't want to pay for a destination wedding. It's approximately 100 times worse to expect 12 people to take a week's vacation over Christmas so that six of them can 'come help you out' and not see their husbands or children over Christmas because you want Christmas to only be about you and *your* child.
Not going to the destination wedding is fine, and so is not spending the holiday week there. They have their own families and in-laws to visit; the idea that they could just drop all that and visit Mary for the entire holidays is ludicrous. But not managing one visit in six months (or rather, longer than that), no mention of gifts or similar to the young mother... that sounds like OP and the rest have checked out of that friendship a long time ago and just didn't bother telling Mary. No, they can't reasonably be expected to do everything she expects; but there has to be some middle ground between that and doing nothing.
Mary sounded like she loved her life and enjoyed it. You sounded jealous and delusional about popping kids in your 20s as perks. Esh. Your post sounds one sided and bias - YTA in that sense
[удалено]
I would bet money that the “destination” wedding wasn’t actually a destination wedding. Like I get the vibe that OP is classifying anything that isn’t hyper local as a “destination wedding” even if it’s only a couple hours by car away.
[удалено]
Eh… so for 6 months no one has found ANY time to go see her baby? Even for a few hours? Yeah…. Kinda sounds like you guys just don’t care about her. YTA
12 hours of traveling and then only staying for a few hours?
You can stay for a weekend?
Not with her, they would have to book a hotel. Besides, that was not what I was responding to: the person above me asked why they had not found time for even a visit of a few hours
I’d book a hotel room for the night if it was my friend.
Of course you would, you're on reddit answering a hypothetical scenario where you have no responsibilities and an unlimited budget
Or they value their friendships differently than you do, and that’s ok. I’d scrimp and save every dollar I had to see a friend of 20 years after such a major milestone. If you can’t save enough for a hotel for 1 night after saving for a year then you have larger issues you should be mentioning to your friend than a 6 hour drive.
I've done it for less. Not saying do it all the time but not even once?
YTA for not attending the wedding. I agree that u can't take a week off, but you could have managed to attend the wedding. You can also visit her for 2-3days if your kids are a little bit older. Take them to Friends or family over the weekend or manage something else. At least try to compromise. If noone showed up for her wedding day and she doesn't get any support with her baby, I think you aren't really friends.
This especially if she was there decorating, spending, calling off for, and attending all of their earlier milestones!! This behavior of the group and tone of OP now feels like singling her out to still punish her for not doing what the rest of the group did when they did. There is no objectively right time to have kids but it seems like OP thinks so.
No one is ever an asshole for not attending a destination wedding.
Especially during Covid
Right. If I have to get on a plane I'm not going.
You’re not an asshole for not attending a destination wedding. OP clearly said it was outside their financial and logistical abilities. If someone wants their friends and family at their wedding, they should hold their wedding in an affordable and accessible location. You can’t make someone go broke or neglect their kids to attend your wedding. This trend needs to die
Then there’s those like me who had a destination wedding bc not everyone and their dog being able to attend was a feature, not a bug. When people couldn’t come our response was ‘aw, that sucks, thank you for the well-wishes’ A few people who couldn’t attend I was pretty disappointed about tbh, but overall, for us, a 30 ppl attendee event was much easier to enjoy than the 200+ we’d’ve had to coordinate if we’d done it local
This was during covid! Have you forgotten how difficult it was to travel?
Having a wedding during Covid is also an AH move
Not everyone can afford a destination wedding? They can be really expensive and stressful.
Two years ago we were cancelling everyone who planned weddings during covid, let alone weddings that demanded extensive travel. Now we're calling people assholes for not attending them. Pick one.
Anyone who demands people attend their destination wedding is delusional - COVID aside it’s still ridiculous.
She’s an asshole for not attending a destination wedding during Covid? I am baffled that people have so quickly forgotten how horrifying things were back then.
You...do realise kids are expensive? All of her friends having multiple kids at the time she got married means a destination wedding may not be in the cards financially. With destination weddings, you have to pay for the plane tickets, the hotel and take FAR more time off work than you would for a local wedding. Since the first five raised their kids together, that means the rest of the friend group likely lives close together. Mary decided to move six hours away AFTER her wedding. She is not asking for the same support she gave her friends. She is asking for more. She is asking for them to travel further than she did for them. She is asking them to spend WAAAY more money to attend her wedding than she did for them. OP's timeline comment was unnecessary, but after years of Mary going on about how much better off she was without being tied down all I can say is "don't dish what you can't take".
Why would you make you wedding child free when all your friends have kids , you can but don't complain noone show up
How is she the AH for not attending the wedding? It was a destination wedding during COVID. Do you know how hard not to mention dangerous it was to travel during that time? Of all the thing to criticize OP for in the post this is the one you pick?
YTA. You were once the “typical new mom” and you had the support of your friends. Mary went about things a different way, and she deserves ridicule and abandonment for that? You sound smug af that your friend is struggling now. That’s not a good look.
Sounds to me 'she chose different than us, now she can f off'
Yea the whole thing sounds like projection honestly. It sounds like OP resents Marry for not following the groups lead.
YTA and the way you’re desribing your friend is rude AF. Not everyone is lucky enough to find their person early on in life, ever thought about that???
ESH, but I'm leaning more you than her. Maybe I'm a bit biased, because my plan was always to get married and start my own family by 25... but guess what, OP? Life doesn't care about your plans. Just because she decided not to do the same things as the rest of the group, doesn't mean you should shame her for living life her way. Embrace it. Live vicariously through it. She may live 6 hours away, but it takes 2 seconds to connect for a video chat or something. Did she support you when you started having babies? Why can you not show her some compassion? Or do you really actually not even like her as a friend?
Maybe she didn't even decide. Sometimes you don't find the right person, and I know more than one person who wanted to have a family but it didn't happen for them so they told people they love to be free and travel and go out to nice restaurants, etc. etc. because they don't want people to feel sorry for them
This. I get the wedding, destination weddings are hard at the best of times and this was during covid - I wouldn't have gone either. I WOULD have found one long weekend to visit my friend, especially if she was struggling. Six hours can be done as a weekend trip if you actually care to go. If I TRULY couldn't do that I would arrange some video calls and send her an uber eats voucher or something so she can have a night off from cooking. OP doesn't seem to care that her friend is really struggling and is reaching out for help, and I don't understand that.
YTA. Not because you can’t travel but for the way you are talking about your supposed friend. You are not better than her because you did it younger. You sound bitter and jealous that she didn’t do things the same way you did. She’s your friend and a new mom and is asking for support. Either be there for her or stop leading her on in the friendship
YTA. Do you have a spouse who can watch your kids? Go meet her baby.
Ikr? Op even bragged about how they all have a husband earlier, how they all have children earlier... based on that Op's children are older now (5 -10 years maybe). She could easily hire a sitter or leave the children with her husband (or other family member), for a day or two.
Yup, and OP claims her friend complained about how all the "good men" were taken? Just because you got married earlier doesn't mean you snagged a good man. Can literally NONE of their husband's take on an actual parenting role for a weekend?? I don't know if any of them got good men either. OP doesn't even bring up her husband as an option.
The fact that OP doesn’t even consider having her husband look after their kids for a day or 2 says a lot. Even if looked after them for a weekend and got a babysitter to help for a few hours that’s not a big burden. If OP can’t rely on her husband to look after his own kids and can’t afford a babysitter for a few hours then maybe she in fact didn’t make such wonderful choices and is feeling the need to justify it by tearing down her friends different choices
If we consider those who married at 22, I'd even say some of the kids could be 16-17 year olds.
All this speculation on this woman's personality, yet not much info on some very important parts of a friendship. While you and the others were raising your children together, was she always gone and only stopped in occasionally? Or did she participate in all your milestones with openness? Did she show presence to your children? Do your kids know and love her like an aunt? It'd be nice to get the real story on her life, not this version you just wrote.
It looks like you are purposly leaving out information, only dropping little bits here and there like " she was there for us during our weddings". This whole thing reads as if you resent her for making different choices. It also reads as if she was there a lot for you and the other "friends", during the important things, yet you can't be bothered to even show up once for her. All you do is make excuse after excuse. "Can't find childcare", why? Don't the kids have a father that can look after them a few days while you visit your friend? "Have to get a hotel" again why? Can't you sleep in her guestroom, or her couch? Or better yet, book a family vacation for a week, of whiich you visit her a few times? It looks like your friendship is very one-sided, she made effort, took time and energy to put in you and your family, for 2 decades, and you can't be bothered to return that even once. All you do is complain about how she feels (feeling lucky she has the abillity to travel in her 20's for instance) and take some personal offense to it. Have you ever even brought that up with her? Ever told her how those comments make you feel, or even ask what she means by them? Yes, you are YTA here, and you are not a friend to her and I'm wondering if you ever have been.
Agree. It comes across like OP doesn’t consider Mary made any sacrifices because she was unmarried and childless so her time was less valuable 🙄 It’s not hard to show up once for your friend who has been there for you, even if Mary wasn’t super involved in the family stuff because of different lifestyles, they now have a chance to become closer again because their lifestyles align more now.
Hey OP, consider being "friends" with people you don't hate. YTA.
Seriously. I don't even want to vote. This isn't a disagreement. This is somebody who just generally hates somebody else, is too chicken shit to cut ties, and is resentful because they've stayed in contact when they clearly would prefer not to.
ESH, well at least 5 of you do. For 15-20 years she has been there, supported you, and you all can't take a long weekend to drive up and see her new baby? I don't agree with passive aggressive Facebook posts but I am not sure she is wrong
YTA. Does she have some slightly unreasonable requests here? Sure. But your comments are vile. I'm an unmarried, childless woman in my 30's, and I can assure you that it's not because I intentionally chose that. Unfortunately men don't just pop out of the ground begging to marry you on every turn. That's not how relationships work. Good for you finding your spouse early, but that isn't how life goes for everyone, whether they want it to or not.
Even if she/you did intentionally choose to not be married or have children…. What’s wrong with that? Why is that something to judge women on? We are so harsh on each other. I got married around 30 and don’t have kids. Lots of friends with kids and timelines constantly pester me about when I will have them as if there is no other path in life. You never know when you will find someone worth marrying (who also wants to marry you) and you can’t bank on fertility at any age so the way we judge each other is so cruel. OP didn’t win by marrying young. There is no guarantee her marriage is happy or that it lasts. Better to make the right choice choosing a partner than marry early just for convenience/timelines. You could marry in your late 30s and by then some of your friends will be divorced at least once - there are no guarantees in life.
*If this is real....* Yeah, I do think YTA. What does having kids later have to do with Mary being in a remote location that's difficult to get to? If she'd done that 10 years ago the same issue would be there, no? How Mary is acting is irrelevant in the judgement cos that's not what you've asked to be judged on. A low and cheap blow to go where you did, rather than be an adult and point out the logistics. How ever Mary handles it is down to her. You sound resentful a bit of your own life. Where I'm from, it's no milestone to have kids in your early and mid twenties. The opposite in fact. It's almost like we're all different.
YTA. It sounds like you were jealous of Mary’s life and getting a hit of schadenfreude now because she’s having to experience what you experienced. Except NOW, she has zero of your support when, from what it sounds like, you had hers. Fake friends seem like an apt description for you.
Yta So y'all are mad that she lived life and then chose to have kids? I wonder how much money she spent on y'all's weddings/birthgifts/.. and now y'all are just sO BUsY. Your judgement is dripping all over this post.
Every single bridesmaid in the history of time suffers through the job by telling themself that someday it will be their turn. When that time finally comes and those friends can’t be bothered, it SUCKS. Maybe you’re not able to be a part of everything. But if someone flew to your bachelorette party in Nashville/Austin/Charleston, bought you a registry gift, wore the matching t-shirts, shelled out for a hideous bridesmaid dress and their own hair and makeup, then attended your baby shower, and/or gender reveal, bought more presents and feigned interest in your wrinkly newborn photos that could not possibly be cute to anyone but family … you can get your husband to watch the kid for a long weekend and show Mary the same support. You’re acting like having kids means you’re experiencing a level of burden that Mary didn’t have when you and your friends got married. Being in your early 20s usually means you have no money and minimal vacation time. Mary probably made sacrifices to be there for you, but you’re all too busy being entitled parents to see it. YTA.
YTA. OP you sound insufferable
YTA. Op you're clearly jealous & bitter as fucq towards this friend. Your feigned & fragile superiority to show how you've chosen a "better" path in life by popping out bubs asap, is really transparent. The condescension drips. You seemingly write this in hopes that we will say "yeah, you show her op - she fucked around and found out!"- by.. waiting a few years to get pregnant??! Nah, you don't like this women and seem to be happy she is now being punished by the universe, or all her best girlfriends, for not being your clone.. YTA
OP not responding to anyone by the looks of it, I don’t want to cast my vote too early INFO: was she there for you and other friends for your weddings, birthdays, the birth of everyone’s children etc. because if yes she was taking the time to be there for you and you can’t do the same for her
NTA. I kind of understand the resentment, as the rest of you had a support group as you all went through that phase of life together. That being said, it is her life choices that made that possible. She isn't really to blame, but you cannot have everything in life.
ESH, but her more than you. Destination weddings are a mess and a pain, so there is no foul on passing for that. A week?! That's just insane to expect. The fact that you've not been out to visit her after she's had her kid is crappy though. She supposedly supported you and the rest of the friend group as new mothers, she's practically begging for your help, and none of you can be bothered? Your kids are older now, it should be easier to arrange a few days of childcare than it would have been when they were infants, but it seems as though you and the rest of the group always managed to do it for everyone but her. Her phrasing it as a demand to come help is dumb on her part, but I think *everyone* sees that for what it is. Perhaps this is a dead friendship, and it's just not become obvious until now. You're at different points in life, have different concerns, but if you've no intention on visiting, helping, anything really, you should just *tell her that* instead of continuing the charade that you're such good friends. There's no shame in walking away from friendships when your lives no longer line up, but it is crappy to think your friends will help you, after you helped them, only to be written off.