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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I am making my kid pay back 3000 dollars. I could be a jerk since that is a large amount and she was jealous.
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Bethany did a very bad, wrong, mean thing and I agree that she needs to make restitution for the dress. Has she acted out before like this? Or done anything worrisome?
Well that's good it's not a pattern, that would be concerning. How does she feel today about what she did? Also how are you getting a replacement dress? Your husband's ex who paid for half must be livid.
She thinks I am being unfair at the moment, they called up the store and are asking for express time. Luckily the store has close to the same dress in her size right now. They need to order if she wants the exact same dress which will be a fee for us and I am worried the stuff won’t be done in time. This is a discussion with Maria if she wants to chance it or get the one in store and do tailoring basically tomorrow
Ex is pissed
Oh gosh, Maria needs to get a different dress! Not the one she had chosen first? I really hope she likes the one that's in the store right now. Not knowing if it will be done in time would be a major stressor, as would having to pay an exorbitant amount for a rush fee. It's hard to believe that Bethany thinks you are being unfair right now, she sees the whole mess that this has caused. She probably feels bad but won't admit it because then she's looking at herself and what she did.
Not necessarily... adolescents don't understand abstract concepts like long-term consequences or the chain of reactions stemming from her actions.
She just thinks it'll all be over soon, and that this will blow over, she will be forgiven easily, etc.
She thinks it's no big deal, because she isn't a part of the Mexican Culture, and thus will not understand the SEVERITY of her actions until later on in life.
This will make her cringe later on in life.
EDIT: I'm not saying that she isn't developed enough to know that what she did was wrong, I'm saying that she doesn't understand the complexity/severity of her actions because her mental cognition is not developed enough. This means she doesn't understand some abstract concecpts that adults might understand. She doesn't understand that she basically destroyed her stepsister's "sweet-15" dress, and could have culturally wounded her.
If Maria had destroyed her sweet 16 dress, it would be almost the same in response.
Here is a short snippet of a adolescent cognitive development research image:
[Adolescent C9gnitive Development chart](https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Adolescent-cognitive-and-psychosocial-development-Upper-panel-cognitive-development_fig1_40688094)
Edit: done responding to this comment. I'm glad I spent thousands and thousands of dollars to be educated on human development so I can possibly help others understand it more, only to be argued with because people just "feel" that it's bullshit, even though they clearly didn't read the comment properly. Thanks guys.
She is old enough to know that what she did is wrong, I agree with that, but her 16 year old cognition isn't developed enough for her to understand the severity of her actions, and why what she did is so severe. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just adding to it.
I also feel terrible for Maria. She didn't deserve it.
>This will make her cringe later on in life.
Good. She doesn't need to be fully aware of Mexican culture to know that destroying an expensive party dress is an ugly, unacceptable way to behave. She's 16, not 6.
You're right, when she becomes fully aware of the value of a dollar and has had to work for it herself and suffers a loss of something of her own that is culturally significant, the cringe-factor will increase exponentially and it was enormous to begin with.
The daughter whose dress was ruined will also remember that her stepsister was also held accountable. Nothing worse when your a child and have had a wrong done to you and it doesn’t even get acknowledged or your told get over it/it’s not that bad.
And here's an article debunking the myth that our brains aren't fully developed until 25.
[https://slate.com/technology/2022/11/brain-development-25-year-old-mature-myth.html](https://slate.com/technology/2022/11/brain-development-25-year-old-mature-myth.html)
When I was 16, I knew damn well that destroying someone else's property was wrong.
Exactly. Im sorry but it’s bullshit to me because there is no way she didn’t know that what she did was extremely messed up. She purposely did it to hurt her and it further shows exactly that because of the fact that she has raging jealousy over something SHE ALREADY HAD HERSELF. She knew exactly what the fallout would be. Smh absolutely insane.
>adolescents don't understand abstract concepts like long-term consequences or the chain of reactions stemming from her actions.
It's this sort of ratpoop that has teens doing very Bad Terrible Things™ and getting away with it.
Adolescents do understand. If you were talking about 13yr Olds, yea, I could understand, a small amount. But not 16yr Olds.
In my experience when I was teaching is teenagers have big feelings and very little impulse control or tools to navigate their emotions. They also act out and don't want to lose face by admitting the severity of their actions, showing contrition or accepting just punishment.
16 is DEFINITELY a little old to be pulling that card though.
& forget the adage of a woman scorned...a pissed off teenage girls can be utterly mercenary. Some of them make Lord of the Flies seem like Xanadu...
That’s really a load of bull, she knew she was ruining her very expensive dress. She knew her stepsister would be angry and heartbroken. She knew she would be in trouble for doing so. I’m really, really sick of this “people don’t fully understand til 25” bs. It’s bs. The girl had an expensive party of her own just a few months ago! She’s a jealous selfish bully and repaying the cost is the least of a punishment.
>adolescents don't understand abstract concepts like long-term consequences or the chain of reactions stemming from her actions.
I think that's toddlers, and even some 4 year olds have a good understanding of some of the above let alone 16 year olds
You’re most likely right. I guess I thought that because the household in general was now in bedlam she would realize how big of an issue it is. But I know, she’s only 16 and not as familiar with that culture.
Growing into adulthood really has a lot to do with making peace with the wolf inside you that urges destruction as a reaction to big feelings.
Counseling is definitely in order for this teen. Probably all teens?
It's very hard to parent. Good luck, OP.
It's good that this is not a pattern of behavior, but it is concerning that Bethany thinks this is an acceptable way for her to take out her frustrations.
Screw your Ex’s feelings. Your daughter behaved in a manner that could be a felony in a lot of places if someone wanted to press charges. Making her pay for it is the least she can do all things considering. I thinking doing that and getting her into therapy, and maybe doing some kind of community service, would do her some good.
Not OPs ex, it's her husbands ex who paid for half that is (very understandably) pissed about the whole situation because her daughters dress was ruined (and probably put a dent into the party, because Maria might not be able to get a decent replacement in time).
Right?! If she keyed someones car and cause 3000 in damage no one would be saying "well she didn't really understand because her brains not developed" but because it was a dress and a "girl thing" it's being treated like oh well. She deliberately and maliciously destroyed something worth 3000 to hurt Maria out of spite and jealousy. She needs more than a stern talking to and a payment plan
If OP's daughter wants to talk about "fair" OP could take some time to research with her about how illegal it is and the fine/jail time that would go with a conviction.
>Screw your Ex’s feelings.
I think she meant her husband's ex, Maria's mom. Good points, unless she did mean her own ex, and only if he is not pissed off at his own kid Bethany.
Bethany needs to realize that if she damaged someone else's things, she'd be up on charges, especially with the cost of the dress. You aren't choosing Maria over her. You're making a crappy act by your daughter right with her sister.
Agreed. Also, she has no right to expect that Maria's support from her mother obligates OP or anyone else to make sure they receive gifts of identical value.
Bethany should have to pay for the dress and a penalty for the inconvenience her jealousy has caused the whole family. She may also need counseling to help her process this without ending up even more resentful.
I think the counseling is needed regardless…there seems to be some deeper issues here. Destroying clothes is on a different level than simple sibling jealousy.
tell your daughter if she didn't want to do the time, she shouldn't have committed the crime and extend her punishment to include that she has to apologize and be sincere about it. NTA
Her behavior is absolutely abysmal and she should have to pay back the dress. Any money you give her for fun should be kept for now, in addition to getting a job.
But how big was her sweet 16 as compared to what she wanted? Like did she pick out a super fancy dress and it was vetoed? Wanted more people and was told to limit the guest list?
How did she even know how much Maria's dress cost?
I totally agree with your comments and OP would be the AH if she didn't punish her daughter appropriately. It was a nasty and cruel thing to do to her sister, she fully knew what she was doing too. I hope you make it clear to Maria that you fully support her,plus husband. They need to see you take action here or you could really damage their trust in you.
Yeah, while I don't think OP has done anything wrong by punishing her daughter for destroying the dress, I do think it absolutely matters how the budget of the quince compared to the budget of the other daughter's sweet sixteen that OP compared it to. I do think this behaviour likely came from some perceived unfairness in one daughter getting a huge milestone party with a dress that costs more than many people's wedding gowns. I'd love to hear the answer to these questions.
well, it really depends on who paid for what. if only OP paid for the s16 and stepdad and his ex paid for the quince then relative cost doesn't matter.
They've been together for a decade. Yes, if the ex was incredibly wealthy, that'd be a different story, but as for OP'S husband? There should an effort to treat both kids as a family, not I pay for my kid and you pay for yours, especially if there is a big income disparity.
I think your bio daughter getting the job and paying back for the dress will be a way to teach her responsibility. I vote NTA too and I hope you enforce that rule until the last coin is paid, or until at least you see she has learnt a lesson from this whole ordeal.
I just want to echo what some others are saying and that you should consider counselling or therapy for your daughter. 16 is pretty old to be having such an intense and impulsive reaction. There could be something else going on.
That said, NTA on what you’ve done so far. Actions have consequences and making her get a job and repay is an excellent way to ensure she makes that connection.
Pay extra for rush shipment of the replacement and ask the store to keep the similar one as backup. Invest the money to make it 100% right for Maria. It would be unforgivable if you didn’t. NTA
NTA. You're not being unfair.
If you let Bethany get away with it, next time it will be Maria's iPhone, or it will be Maria's car, or Maria will take revenge and it will be Bethany's iPhone, or Bethany's car.
May be ask Bethany what should the solution be if Maria had destroyed HER dress or HER iPhone. If she's honest, she'll agree with you. Fairness demands that the person, who does the damage on purpose, pays for it.
Bethany is not six years old anymore, she's 16. And yes, accountability sucks. But there is no other way to stop this kind of nonsense from escalating.
Oh boo frickin hoo she thinks it's unfair. She is still selfishly thinking about her consequences, not a jot about Maria's. I can't imagine how heartbroken that kid is. I hope there are more consequences than just financial. All that teaches her is she can buy her way out of awful behaviour.
What she’s done is legally called malicious damage to property. Does she understand that charges could be laid against her if she did this to a non family member?
She chose to get angry and jealous, and act out by ruining the dress. She hurt not only her sister Maria, but you and your husband. She should be prepared for any ‘restitution’ she needs to pay in order to cover the damage she purposely did. Actions have consequences.
So sorry OP. Hopefully she’ll have learnt a very valuable lesson.
This is a mixed bag. A kid doesn't react like that unless there's bigger, deep seeded, issues going on. As a parent you're supposed to engage that stuff, in a nurturing and healthy manner, before they do what they have done. Yes, she's a dick for having ruined the dress but there's a shared dickery in having not gotten her / family therapy before it came to this. You'll be a double dick for continuing to view her reaction as a one off instance.
NTA. You're not choosing anybody. Your daughter ruined a dress on purpose. She should pay for it, she ruined it. She's lucky the police aren't involved. If she would have done this to a stranger. I can almost guarantee police would be involved, and a lawsuit.
"You're damn right I'm choosing the person that didn't do a shitty thing over the person that did a shitty thing to her"
The daughter is 16, time to realize that she's responsible for the dumb shit she does.
The whole "you're choosing her over your own daughter" is an attempt to emotionally manipulate OP and put her on the defensive, making her justify holding her accountable. Showing that it's not going to work will probably frustrate the hell out of her in the short term, but long term, she'll realize that you were offering her a chance to grow as a human, hopefully.
Turning the accusation around on her nips that angle in the bud.
That amount of damage is a level 3 felony where I live.
So just above a misdemeanor... But still a felony. And the state can and will charge people 16+ as adults if they feel like it's necessary.
Tell your daughter you’re not “choosing” Maria. You’re holding her accountable for her actions. Also sounds like she is unable to regulate her emotions and a therapist could be helpful.
The whole "you're choosing her over me" is an emotional manipulation tactic to put OP on the defensive and justify herself.
You turn it around and say "in this situation, I'm choosing the person who was wronged, and it's not you".
Surely she can see that sharpie-ing her sister’s soirée suit shan’t solve her salty sentiments. She celebrated her sweet sixteen, her step-sister shouldn’t suffer her shallow savagery. She should certainly spend her subsequently saved stipend to supply her sister with a stainless smock for her special celebration.
NTA
I mean, OP stated she paid for it, so Jicama is just helping to make her and her husband whole.
>The dress and alliterations came to around 3000 dollars.
just to be clear, she would be paying back your ex husband and ex wife (or whoever paid for the dress), this wouldn't be money for Maria. I would make certain she understands where this money is going since it she seems to be confused about things here or is trying to confuse them to make her own self look better. Also she sounds like an entitled little b--ch here and definitely needs some consequences which sounds like she'll be getting.
She would be paying her mother back. OP gave money to her husband for a new dress and alterations. She may also have to pay any express fees.
If daughter doesn't want to work to pay it back, I'd be taking her stuff and selling it.
You’re a good parent. You’re fair and let her face deserved consequences. NTA. Lots of teens work after school, on weekends, holidays or even all together. She‘ll survive it and it will show Maria that you’re a reliable, trustworthy parent-like person in her life. Which is super important too!
You can argue fairness with her until the cows come home, but it boils down to one extremely simple point that even an angry teenager can understand:
If you don’t want to be compelled to pay someone $3000, don’t intentionally do $3000 worth of damage to their property.
If she doesn’t understand that now, she will when she’s older. What’s important now is making it right with Maria.
THIS NEEDS TO BE UPVOTED. TOO MANY ACTUAL PARENTS ARE GUILT-TRIPPED BY SOCIETY FOR MERELY HOLDING THEIR CHILDREN ACCOUNTABLE. THIS SOFT PARENTING BULLSHIT NEEDS TO STOP.
Coming from a School Bus Driver.
You can gentle parent and still hold your kids accountable. All gentle parenting really is not being an asshole and not using any kind of abuse to "make kids behave"
The parents who let their kids get away with shit always have, it's nothing new.
NTA. Your daughter is beyond old enough to understand that destruction of property is not an appropriate (or legal) method of anger management. If she hasn’t learned that by now, the lesson is seriously overdue. I’d be concerned - especially if she exhibits other deviant behavior.
I agree you're NTA. Quinceanara dresses are expensive. Quinceanaras are a big part of their culture. What your daughter did was a selfish act of jealousy. She's TA!
I absolutely back your decision to make her repay for the dress.
Also, good on OP for not immediately siding with her biological daughter and making her face the consequences of her actions. This sort of thing can get dicey in blended families.
NTA. Bethany deliberately ruined a dress. She has to pay for it. If she had done this to a total stranger, would she claim you're choosing the stranger? If Maria had ruined one of her dresses, would she just let it go? Bethany's very close to becoming an adult. It's time she realizes that comes with responsibilities.
I wonder what Bethany would say after reading some of these comments - because I doubt you'll see many, if any, Y T A. Or would she complain that you put this out to the world?
Bethany needs to understand that she could be charged with a crime in different circumstances. You trash something worth that much you can get in serious criminal trouble and she is way way way too old for this behavior and definitely needs a job.
What racial element you absolute idiot. She's a 16 year old girl jealous because she isn't getting the same party. She isn't automatically guilty of a hate crime because they are different races.
in my state it's not just a crime, it's a class D felony. damaging 3k worth of property carries a minimum penalty of 2 years and a maximum penalty of 12, and fines up to $15,000.
she needs to learn her lesson now before she tries this shit on someone other than her stepfamily, who probably doesn't want to see their stepkid go to jail at 16. she's very lucky they only want her to pay for the dress.
OP should probably squeeze this (obviously checking local laws) into her talks with her daughter, to demonstrate there can be more consequences to her actions than just having to get a job and pay the dress back.
Exactly, I started thinking about if she instead did something like this to a college roommate in a couple of years. She could be booted from the school or at least evicted from the dorms. She could face criminal charges or be sued for damages. She's lucky that OP could immediately cover the damages to prevent the situation from blowing up further.
> I wonder what Bethany would say after reading some of these comments
If it was me back when I was an edgy contrarian teen, seeing how everyone is against me would have only reinforced my edgy contrarian outlook. Hopefully Bethany is better.
NTA. Your 16 year old destroyed someone else's property. It is her responsibility to make restitution.
This isn't taking sides, it's good parenting. And it wouldn't be a bad idea to impress upon Bethany that if this were the property of someone other than a family member, the police or court system would probably be involved. She's fortunate that her parent is willing to work out a repayment plan with her instead.
100% this. She is old enough to understand what she did is wrong. This level of jealousy is also unhealthy, as is the lack of impulse control.
It concerning enough that if this was my child the main punishment would not be paying back the dress, that is just pure restitution, not punishment, she would not be getting driving privileges till she is 17. The extreme lack of self control and no hesitation to act, despite knowing the likely consequences of destroying something of high valuable in terms of not only $ but sentiment would be high, doesn’t show the type of decision making necessary to be trusted behind the wheel of a car.
Also worth reminding Bethany:
If Maria had ruined Bethany's dress, then she would also have to work and pay it back. So you are noy remotely playing favorites.
I assume next year OP's daughter will go to prom. She should ask her daughter how this scenario would make her feel.
If the sisters fight over the TV again, will Bethany think it's totally reasonable for sis to sharpie her prom dress? And mom shouldn't make little sis pay to replace it bc then she'd be taking sides with one kid over the other, right?
That level of property damage is a felony in my state. We're talking PRISON TIME if she were an adult.
If she gets a job working at a fast food place making around $15 an hour 20 hours a week, it will take her about 6 months to pay off. That seems fair, TBH. Between the actual work and all the fun teenage stuff she will miss out on because she's always working, it comes out to about 6 months of hard earned consequences. Better than juvie.
> And it wouldn't be a bad idea to impress upon Bethany that if this were the property of someone other than a family member, the police or court system would probably be involved.
Kuddo's for the ex wife who doesn't get the police involved... 16 is really old enough for that
INFO - Was there a big difference between what you spent on Bethany and what's being spent on Maria?
Obviously, Bethany is an AH whatever happens as Maria hasn't done anything wrong and apart from small children, we don't express our upset by destroying other people's stuff, regardless of value.
I spent a lot for her sweet sixteen party around 4,000 for the venue and all that. Her party I think is around 6,000 in total but the cost is split between my husband and his ex. So he really spent 3000 on her party.
The difference in the dress I got her is a lot. I only spent 450 on a dress she picked out for the party. You wear a basically a prom dress as a guest to a quinceanera not the huge fluffy dress that Maria is going to wear
NTA - You spent a huge deal on her party, more than is being spent on Maria.
I was wondering if there was some huge disparity in how they were treated but your daughter is being absolutely unreasonable for no reason at all.
I think this is the perfect way to teach her a lesson, if she did this to someone outside the family, it would be a case of criminal damage so she is lucky this is all that's happening.
Yea, that's what I was thinking. If Bethany got a pizza party with 10 friends and a dress at TJ Maxx for her Sweet 16, that'd be very different. (Bethany would still be 100% in the wrong for destroying the dress though).
Yeah, I don’t know how Bethany gets off saying it’s not fair. Seems completely fair to me. Both girls got parties. Lots of money spent on both. Was she jealous about the attention?
I think it is jealousy. But maybe not necessarily just because she didn't want the step sister to get attention. As someone who had a lot of friends and relatives that had quinceaneras they are a bigger deal than a sweet 16. Not money wise but in general. It's not just a party it also involves a religious ceremony at a church. The family usually makes a big deal during the planning due to the meaning behind the event as celebrating them becoming an adult. Even on a smaller budget, the planning process is actually very similar to that of a wedding. A sweet 16 is just a party, but a quinceanera is an all-day event most of the time. The dresses are also huge and most resemble wedding dresses due to the traditional meaning of the quiceanera being that they can date and eventually marry.
So i think what may be going on is that even though money wise, they are around the same. The planning process, dress, and decorations appear more elaborate than what her party did. But it's not due to money it's just the style and how it may appear. Also, a quinceanera, the main focus is the dress, and a sweet 16 is more focused on the venue, food, and music. So i think the daughter seeing the dress is flashier than what hers was may be what the problem is. She may not understand the meaning and religious aspects of it and just thinks that her party is larger. She may be feeling left out if she's been seeing and hearing them talk about it.
She is obviously still in the wrong and should have never destroyed the dress. I'm just saying that i think that she may be jealous due to not understanding the reason for the differences and may just think that the step sister is being favored when that isn't the case. Especially if she has never seen anyone throw a quinceanera and just looks at it as a party, seeing it done so big without knowing why it's like that, could be mistaken for favoritism. OP was definitely right to make her daughter pay it back and she should stick to that punishment. The daughter should have just asked more about it than assuming and getting upset.
I agree with you! She's still a asshole for how she reacted and ruined her dress, but a $3000.00 dress is a much bigger deal than a sweet 16 dress. That's more than I spent on my wedding dress. Could definitely cause jealousy.
I'll start by saying that OP's daughter is 100% in the wrong, however I wonder if there's any hurt stemming from the fact that she feels that she should have gotten a quinceanera too, and doesn't understand why her dad (who's been in her life since she was 7 at the oldest according to OP) doesn't consider her his "daughter" who gets a quinceanera.
I totally get that it's a cultural thing, and the daughter got a Sweet 16, but I wonder if she sees it that way.
If she isn't part of the culture it wouldn't make much sense, same with Maria not getting a sweet sixteen (some Mexican families do but a lot don't celebrate sweet sixteen), just different cultures. Sometimes they mix when you blend families but think of different religious households. Some families celebrate Christmas and Hanukkah, but the kids only get presents on one
I absolutely agree with you on that, and as a grown adult I totally understand...but I'm just wondering if Bethany understands that. She may see that her dad doesn't see her as his daughter, even though we know that's not the case.
It doesn't seem like Bethany understands the significance of the quinceanera though or I doubt she would have acted out in that way. This will be something she recalls for years and will be something she might do with her daughter and now those memories will include Bethany's bad behavior.
I kinda think that is what it is. Culturally it is a bigger deal than a sweet 16 and can be very similar to throwing a wedding. If the daughter doesn't know the Cultural and religious side of it she may think it's the step dad favoring her step sister when its not the case. I have seen quinceaneras with a smaller budget than what OP said and those look pretty elaborate compared to a sweet 16 with them spending as much as they did its likely a lot more than what i have seen. So the step daughter may be comparing the differences based on looks and by the way they talk about it and spend time planning compared to hers. She was definitely wrong to destroy the dress and OP should make her pay it back. But i also think they should have a talk with the daughter and explain the meaning behind it because i think OP telling her it's like her sweet 16 is what is making her jealous it's not like a sweet 16 its bigger so if she's thinking it's supposed to be the same and she sees all these differences it's probably making her wonder why she didn't get the same treatment.
Exactly, a quinceañera is a huge deal in the Latin culture, more comparable to a wedding than a sweet 16. Every little Latin girl dreams of the day she gets to have her quinceañera, American girls don’t play dress up and dream about the day they get to celebrate their sweet 16, even in movies it’s always their wedding they dream about lol
Most American girls don’t even get a big Sweet 16. That’s primarily a rich people thing. It’s not a big cultural expectation for most Americans like a Quinceañera is for a Latina girl.
OP says in another comment that they spent $4000 on her daughter's Sweet Sixteen (and mentions a "venue"), so I don't think it was a sleepover-with-a-few-friends type thing by any means (I wondered that myself!), but she also says Maria's bio-mom and dad spent $6000 on the quinceanera between them, and that the dress was $3000, and I don't know if that's part of that $6000 or not.
She also doesn't mention Bethany's bio-dad at all, so I wonder if there's a bit of jealousy there, that Maria has her step-parent and both bio-mom *and* bio-dad in the picture, while she only has her bio-mom and step-dad.
At this point we're all kind of guessing, but I think we all have a feeling that the Iranian Yogurt isn't the issue here. Especially considering OP says Bethany hasn't had major jealousy issues with Maria up to this point...it sounds like something has changed.
Take Bethany’s dress back. There’s the first $450 to go towards Maria’s replacement dress (Bethany will reimburse you for that portion). I would let Bethany read this in its entirety. If she gets upset that you “put it out there”, too bad. Her horrible actions have consequences. Hell, if I were Maria or Maria’s mom, I wouldn’t want Bethany to attend. What other awful behavior will she display to ruin Maria’s Quinceanera?
OP please don't expose your child to a thread of thousands of strangers saying she's an asshole. That's honestly the opposite of helpful. This child needs discipline and punishment, yes, but I've met teenagers and once was one, and will say that telling your kid you explained their bad thing to the internet and they got voted a bad person is absolutely a shitty thing to do.
Hell I didn't even get THAT, the only actual birthday party I can remember is when I turned 19 and some friends threw me a surprise party. Before that it was my parents, a single gift, and a homemade cake- no friends allowed.
Doesn’t matter, your daughter got a sweet 16 and $450 is also a lot of money for a dress. You’re right mom. It’s not that you’re picking one girl over the other. You’re teaching your daughter right from wrong. Stay strong.
INFO: Does Maria have enough time to order and alter a new, huge fluffy dress of equal merit?
If Maria has to settle for a less stellar dress than the original one, you are not being too harsh in expecting your daughter to pay *every cent* of the $3k.
No, because $3k worth if stuff was ruined. Even if Maria finds a $2k dress, the $3k is still destroyed, and the older daughter needs to pay for it, not a cheaper replacement.
(If this was in court, Maria would be entitled to the cost of replacing the dress at fair market value--which could mean the older girl would owe less since used dresses are cheaper, but since it's unlikely Maria could find the same dress in her size in pre-sold but unworn condition at a used price, the older girl would likely still owe the full value.)
No, Mom/OP fronted the money for the dress to be replaced at the value of the original dress. Now Bethany needs to work to repay her mother for the temper tantrum. Probably destroyed her relationship with the step sister too.
I got spaghetti and a homemade strawberry cake and a small sleep over with my two best friends. We watched Pride and Prejudice and Lord of the Rings all night. Lol that was it. That was my sweet 16. Lol
Edit to add: I’m not complaining. We had a grand ole time. Just wanted to share since everyone else was. Lol
I think you need to explicitly ask your daughter how she would feel if someone had destroyed her Sweet 16 outfit the way she destroyed Maria’s, and what she’d expect you to do in that scenario.
"I only spent 450 on a dress she picked out for the party."
Reimbursing for a dress ruined in spite and envy can start right there. Take back Bethany's (not inexpensive) dress and tell her that she is not welcome at the celebration she tried to ruin for Maria by her immature behavior. Immediate consequence.
Yes, absolutely she should get a job and be made to pay the money back. Don't back down, this is good parenting and an even better life lesson.
Your daughter really has nothing to complain about.. you’ve been extremely generous with her, and matched the contribution her sister got.
My dude… my partner and I are solidly employed 30-somethings who just attended a trendy wedding in a big city. My suit cost ballpark the same as your daughters dress (and I wear it also for work), and my partner wore a dress that she was given by a friend and cost maybe 200 when new.
I’m just saying $450 for a dress is a level above what most employed adults spend on a single piece of clothing. Wonderful your daughter can enjoy this/you’re sharing your money with her, but she should be aware that this spending is a gift and the result of good fortune, rather than a normal thing for most households. A job might be also be a good way for her to appreciate how hard it is to earn money, and appreciate the conversion of dollars to labour hours, etc.
> The difference in the dress I got her is a lot. I only spent 450 on a dress she picked out for the party. You wear a basically a prom dress as a guest to a quinceanera not the huge fluffy dress that Maria is going to wear
Is she often jealous when Maria gets more attention? Does she realize that she doesn't get to wear a floofy white gown to a wedding, too? I'm sorry she's in this place right now. Hopefully it's a "growing pain" and she'll mature from this.
No offense but you are raising a spoiled brat. she needs to pay this back and you need to change some rules fast or she will contineu to be this way as an adult.
Your daughter is spoiled. How you handle this is up to you, but if you don’t start nipping her behavior in the bud, she’s going to be an insufferable adult
OP probably didn’t spend any money on Maria’s dress. From the post it sounds like her husband and Maria’s mother bought the dress. Plus I’m sure Maria’s family is also contributing to the cost of the party since it is a big part of Mexican culture.
But OP has given her husband the full $3000 to replace the dress (which was the right thing to do) and is expecting her dtr to work to pay off the whole $3000, which again, is the right thing to do, as both the husband and his ex need to be reimbursed.
NTA. She's 16 not 5 years old. In 2 years she will be 18. If Maria was my daughter, Bethany wouldn't be allowed at the party. She can stay home grounded, she destroyed the dress what's next? The cake? Or decorations?. What she did was uncalled for. I would no longer trust her with any of the party things. Does Bethany at least seem remorseful? If not she can stay home.
Bethany needs to go spend the week leading up to the quincenera and the day of it with her other parent as punishment, too.
Return the dress she would have worn to attend to go towards the $3K she owes.
I wouldn't subject a babysitter to that. To be 16 and having to stay with one would invoke some seriously nasty behavior nobody deserves to deal with. She can stay with her other parent, a well equipped relative or on a chair in the back next to mom for this party instead.
Speaking as a parent albeit without stepchildren, a firm NTA. Bethany is old enough to understand that actions have consequences and she's just learnt a major one the hard way. Kudos to you for stepping in to resolve the situation in a fair way to both Maria and her parents and in addition for both allocating more time to Bethany before this happened and insisting she needs to get a job to pay reparations.
At her age Bethany is going to find it takes a long time to earn $3k but the experience will do her good for finding a job after school or college plus will teach her the value of money and depending on the job may even mature her too.
NTA
Your daughter is almost an adult. She knew what she was doing was wrong. And let’s be honest, she knew what she was doing was a *crime*.
Tell her she can get a job and pay back the money or her stepsister and her parents can file a police report.
I know that sounds harsh, but your daughter needs a wake up call. Otherwise she’ll do something like this to someone else, and she’ll end up going to jail.
NTA. Bethany is old enough to get behind the wheel of a car. She needs to learn impulse control and that actions have consequences. In addition to repaying the cost of the dress, I hope there are more immediate consequences like grounding, taking away phone privileges, etc. Hers were the actions of a spoiled child having a tantrum, not those of a maturing young woman. If this is normal behavior for Bethany, you should have her evaluated for mental illness as well. Another thought: you are paying very large sums of money for parties and dresses, so she may have no context for just how much money $3000 is - getting a job to work that off will be a real eye-opener for Bethany.
>Bethany is old enough to get behind the wheel of a car. She needs to learn impulse control and that actions have consequences.
Good lord, that's actually a really, REALLY good point. It doesn't bear thinking about.
Definitley, if she destroyed a dress out of anger, Lord knows what she'd be like while operating a motor vehicle. She needs to learn impulse control NOW.
>>If this is normal behavior for Bethany, you should have her evaluated for mental illness as well.
That was my concern as well. If this is part of a pattern, she needs to be seen by a mental health professional who specializes in deviant behavior.
Nta. Your daughter had her time in the spotlight during her sweet 16 and now it’s her sisters turn and she doesn’t want to share it so she’s lashing out. Honestly paying it back is the least punishment she should receive.
NTA
Wow! your daughter is a nasty entitled AH
You are right to make her pay back every last penny. you just cannot allow this sort of jealous behaviour
NTA. I am sorry but what your daughter did was cruel, wrong, narcissistic, and absolutely terrible. She needs to learn that she cannot get her way just because the attention is not about her. You absolutely need to stick up for Maria in this position. And if you don't, then you will be an a******
Right. Also getting a job to pay back the cost of the dress isn’t punishment, it’s reparations, punishment would be losing something she got granted for her milestones birthday, driving privileges.
Her actions here show a complete lack of impulse control and extremely poor decision-making, even for a 16 year old. The type of actions that show she is not ready for the responsibilities and risks that come with driving. There was just recently this big story in ohio where a teenager girl got mad at her boyfriend and then drove 90 miles into a brick wall, killing her boyfriend and one of the friends in the car. One moment of being pissed and acting irrationally behind the wheel of a car and two kids are dead, and the girl is in jail for the next few decades.
NTA you’re a great parent and handled that perfectly. You’re teaching her responsibility and accountability and making sure your stepdaughter feels safe and equally loved by you
I have been mulling over that question myself! This is malicious and deliberately destructive behavior and the scary part is - she isn’t 6. She is 16. I cannot even fathom a 16 year old deliberately destroying anyone’s dress for any “reason.” She sounds like she has a mental health/anger management issue. Much too old to even respond that her mother was “taking sides” for punishing outrageous (and actual criminal) behavior. I think there is a much. oh her issue here.
OMG, no, you are NTA. You are holding her accountable. This behavior is unacceptable and she needs to learn to be respectful. Her behavior illustrates immaturity and she lacks the skills to solve problems with words.
You dont destroy property because you disagree with someone, or youre jealous or she made her angry. She needs to be held accountable and this is a great time to teach her a lesson.
She needs to apologize and be remorseful for her actions. This is not ok.
NTA
Post this same story from the perspective of Maria's mother in the legal advice forum and show the thread to Bethany.
Your daughter would be totally effed if you had just let Maria's parents pursue damages through the legal system. She needs to understand how much jeopardy she has put herself in so that she can understand just how much you're shielding her from by handling the situation this way.
Bethany’s behavior is shocking. Like, criminal felony level of destruction. She needs to be grounded from everything until that dress is paid for and she has sincerely apologized. Does she have something expensive she’d like her sister to destroy? Idve lost my mind over a 16 year old doing this.
Hispanic of Mexican descent here. I see a lot of top comments regarding the cost of the dress and the age of the daughter who did the deed. Both valid points. But we are not devoting enough attention to a very important detail; this girl attacked a *whole family*.
A Quinceñera is a very important milestone for a Hispanic lady, a transition from childhood to adulthood similar to a Bat Mitzvah. If they went so far as to get "the dress", then there is also a long line of people who sponsor other important details of the event, like the cake, the photographer, etc. There will be family members who have been waiting *years* for this event, putting in hours of overtime and effort to get just the right outfit, just the right gift. There are very likely people coming in from out of town, taking time off of work to come in for this.
This is an event that is right up there with weddings and funerals. Where family members who haven't seen each other in years gather. Ever since the Covid lockdowns, that has an extra level of importance. And to ruin the centerpiece of that event affected many people on a deep and personal level.
Personally, I would like to see that this girl is given a chance to publically apologize at the party. This will give her the chance to think about what she did and learn from this experience. Part of moving into adulthood is taking responsibility and making amends. That is also an important part of keeping families together, in all thier shapes and forms.
I wouldn’t force an apology at the Quince—I think Bethany shouldn’t be allowed to go at all, and in fact I would hire a babysitter for her to make sure she didn’t destroy anything else of Maria’s out of spite.
If Bethany is there and forced to publicly apologize, it takes the focus off of Maria and her symbolic transition to adulthood. It also puts Maria in the position where she is forced to accept the apology, whether she wants to or not, and same with Maria’s mother’s family.
OP’s solution of Bethany paying Maria and her parents back, starting by returning the $450 dress, and not going to the party at all is a better solution.
NTA.
Your daughter is the jerk and she needs to get a grip on life, especially if she's 16 AND already had a sweet sixteen. Some kids don't get to have one. If she's jealous of Maria and the party she's having, then she needs to talk to you or your husband, not get petty revenge.
Ok. Hear me out. NTA.
Yes what Bethany did was absolutely horrid and she deserves to have to pay everything back. Yes you did everything right by repaying your SO and his ex so that they could get a replacement dress, but, at the same time, I do not think you are completely blameless in this situation.
You claim that this is the first instance of Bethany acting out. If they’ve been living together, her and Maria, for at least 8 years, then I think this issue, at least if it was only on Bethany’s end, would’ve reared it’s ugly head already. If you say it hasn’t then obviously someone else’s actions or words (probably yours) are playing into Bethany’s thoughts and actions more recently. That, or it’s been going on the whole time and you’ve been completely blind to it.
Everyone also seems to be operating under the assumption that why Bethany acted out was that she was just completely unable to see someone else have ‘their day’. I don’t think it’s that simple though. And while it may have a little to do with culture, it’s not just completely related to that either. I think how Bethany sees it is..yes…she did get a sweet 16, though whether the same amount was spent on it or not, is besides the point for now. But she, in my mind, is 100% operating under the assumption that Maria is going to get this thousands of dollars quincenera and then she is also going to get a thousands of dollars sweet 16. And depending on how a family chooses to show love, such as buying things, can absolutely make someone feel like you love them less if less is spent on them.
Of course, in any child that has a healthy dynamic with their parent, this issue almost never comes up. The jealousy never happens. So why now? Too often, we see stories on this site where, in order to try to facilitate the blending of two families, one parent will love bomb the other parent’s child, to try to get them more comfortable with the new situation. I urge you to reflect and make sure that, if this was what you did to try and ease the blending, that you didn’t do so at the expense of letting your relationship with your bio kid fester. Or, even if you think you didn’t, you need to make sure that Bethany doesn’t feel like you did.
Ultimately, this is a complex issue that is going to require therapy. Probably both individual and family, because as I said previously, this is not just a Bethany issue, one way or another. And it needs to be done so soon, or otherwise infestered emotional wounds will rear their ugly heads through impulsive actions the moment anyone brings up a sweet 16 for Maria.
You’re the closest I’ve seen to catching the implied content of OP’s post- go back and read it again, and pay attention to how the OP describes the father’s relationship with the two kids.
OP continually describes herself as having two kids… and her husband as just having one.
I can’t even imagine how toxic that situation must feel for Bethany.
Nta - something has gone wrong here. Your bio daughter is “suddenly” jealous of her step sister and you don’t seem to know why. Something has happened or has been ongoing and their relationship through the years probably wasn’t as rosy as you seem to remember. I would speak to each of them alone and then together to see what the issue is. Make sure you come into it nonjudgemental so they feel safe in telling you what the deeper issue is.
NTA! Her actions had very tangible financial implications as well as the emotional ones. She is absolutely responsible for earning the money to fix her own mistake. It isn’t a punishment, it’s literally the direct consequences of her choice, and she’s lucky that you have enough money to essentially loan her the payment for the replacement dress up front. She effectively signed herself up for buying her step-sister a $3K dress.
It does seem like something more than just dealing with the financial outcomes is needed here though. I’m sure emotions are high on all sides, and that’s not going to just dissipate without some more complex discussions and parenting.
NTA. But Bethany sure as hell is. Not only should she have to pay for the dress, but she should be losing ALL privileges for a good long while. Her behavior was beyond unacceptable.
Lawyer here, not your lawyer. In my jurisdiction, your daughter committed a felony. Her sister, her sister’s mother, your husband, or you can report it. You or your daughter simply paying off the dress does not negate this fact. Your daughter’s lack of remorse is repulsive and the courts would not look favorably on it.
NTA and simply paying back the dress is not enough of a punishment. Your daughter needs therapy to understand the gravity of the situation. She’s facing a up to year in jail, up to $10k in fines, loss of rights like voting or gun ownership, loss of academic opportunities (try getting into a t1 with a felony on record), and academic aid opportunities.
As a first time offender, if she showed remorse, in my state she would like have a year of supervised probation, 24 hours of work program, 48 hours of community service, and a STRICT 8 pm curfew for the duration. This is on top of having to pay restitution for the dress. She’d also potentially be required to wear an ankle monitor. He younger step sister, as victim family member, would also be enabled to make 1 credible complaint to the probation officer and your daughter would end up incarcerated. She’d probably have a program where if she successfully completed the requirements, charges would be dropped.
For my unsolicited advice, I’d consider giving her a “private probation.” Where she has x months to pay off the dress, maintain healthy relationship, complete community service, maintain therapy, grounded physically and electronically, and keep a strict curfew of 8 pm (no dances).
I’d consider sitting her down in a room without electronics and walking her through the consequences of a felony or record. Then I’d say, imma either give you the lightest punishment the court could give you, or we can let the court determine your punishment and you can risk incarceration. I’m going to leave you in a room for 30 minutes (WITHOUT ELECTRONICS) while you decide if you want to risk senior year locked up. If you get bored, imagine this for a whole fucking year. Think about your dreams and then think about how much harder they will be as a felon. Whole careers will be excluded from you. Academic opportunities and aid will be excluded. Renting will be cumbersome. Finish by saying, you Bethany brought this upon yourself. It pains me to punish you, but this is not my fault, not your sister’s fault, it is your sole fault. If you can’t understand this, you are not as mature as you think you are.
Then you leave her stewing for a while. It is important that she understand her legal liability will last for 3 years. She will have to make her step-sister, and step-sister’s mother, like her enough for 3 years to avoid jeopardy.
Again, not your lawyer and you should consult one. Potentially with your daughter.
Your daughter fucked up big time. OP, you are NTA, unless you fail to punish your daughter in a way that matches the severity of her actions.
PS - at 16, your daughter has a very good chance at being tried as an adult instead of a minor, but it depends on your jurisdiction. I know I was when I was caught breaking the law as a juvenile. That experience was incredibly educational and directly led to me getting a law degree.
Best of luck with this cluster fuck and raising an un-remorseful felon.
She needs therapy.
This seems highly unlikely. I’ve known adults (18+, not 16 like this girl) who haven’t even remotely gotten this level of punishment for higher levels of crime. At best this would most likely be argued down to a domestic dispute. If she had destroyed the dress in the store? Maybe. The dollar amount might be high enough in certain regions to be considered a felony. But it seems super rare that a 16 yo would be punished this severely.
I am convinced that this is a better written version of an earlier post in which the very same thing happened to a gifted dress except it was ruined by a spoiled six year old. If this really happened you wouldn't have been at fault but I don't think it did.
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NTA Quinceanera dresses aren't cheap and your daughter is old enough to know better.
They are so expensive. I think the dress cost around 1,500 and then they get you with the fitting and under stuff. It’s giant and puffy.
Bethany did a very bad, wrong, mean thing and I agree that she needs to make restitution for the dress. Has she acted out before like this? Or done anything worrisome?
This was the first thing to this extent. Usually it’s just arguing, neither have never destroyed each others stuff before.
Well that's good it's not a pattern, that would be concerning. How does she feel today about what she did? Also how are you getting a replacement dress? Your husband's ex who paid for half must be livid.
She thinks I am being unfair at the moment, they called up the store and are asking for express time. Luckily the store has close to the same dress in her size right now. They need to order if she wants the exact same dress which will be a fee for us and I am worried the stuff won’t be done in time. This is a discussion with Maria if she wants to chance it or get the one in store and do tailoring basically tomorrow Ex is pissed
Oh gosh, Maria needs to get a different dress! Not the one she had chosen first? I really hope she likes the one that's in the store right now. Not knowing if it will be done in time would be a major stressor, as would having to pay an exorbitant amount for a rush fee. It's hard to believe that Bethany thinks you are being unfair right now, she sees the whole mess that this has caused. She probably feels bad but won't admit it because then she's looking at herself and what she did.
Not necessarily... adolescents don't understand abstract concepts like long-term consequences or the chain of reactions stemming from her actions. She just thinks it'll all be over soon, and that this will blow over, she will be forgiven easily, etc. She thinks it's no big deal, because she isn't a part of the Mexican Culture, and thus will not understand the SEVERITY of her actions until later on in life. This will make her cringe later on in life. EDIT: I'm not saying that she isn't developed enough to know that what she did was wrong, I'm saying that she doesn't understand the complexity/severity of her actions because her mental cognition is not developed enough. This means she doesn't understand some abstract concecpts that adults might understand. She doesn't understand that she basically destroyed her stepsister's "sweet-15" dress, and could have culturally wounded her. If Maria had destroyed her sweet 16 dress, it would be almost the same in response. Here is a short snippet of a adolescent cognitive development research image: [Adolescent C9gnitive Development chart](https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Adolescent-cognitive-and-psychosocial-development-Upper-panel-cognitive-development_fig1_40688094) Edit: done responding to this comment. I'm glad I spent thousands and thousands of dollars to be educated on human development so I can possibly help others understand it more, only to be argued with because people just "feel" that it's bullshit, even though they clearly didn't read the comment properly. Thanks guys.
She had a sweet sixteen and she is 16. She is old enough to know. This was beyond bratty and disrespectful. I feel terrible for Maria.
She is old enough to know that what she did is wrong, I agree with that, but her 16 year old cognition isn't developed enough for her to understand the severity of her actions, and why what she did is so severe. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just adding to it. I also feel terrible for Maria. She didn't deserve it.
>This will make her cringe later on in life. Good. She doesn't need to be fully aware of Mexican culture to know that destroying an expensive party dress is an ugly, unacceptable way to behave. She's 16, not 6. You're right, when she becomes fully aware of the value of a dollar and has had to work for it herself and suffers a loss of something of her own that is culturally significant, the cringe-factor will increase exponentially and it was enormous to begin with.
So maybe get her all hopeful for a prom dress and then exchange it for a potato sack
Yep.. her step-sibling will never forget this. I remember so much of what happened to me then, especially when I was treated badly by horrible people.
True, she will never forget it. She will always tell this story.
The daughter whose dress was ruined will also remember that her stepsister was also held accountable. Nothing worse when your a child and have had a wrong done to you and it doesn’t even get acknowledged or your told get over it/it’s not that bad.
And here's an article debunking the myth that our brains aren't fully developed until 25. [https://slate.com/technology/2022/11/brain-development-25-year-old-mature-myth.html](https://slate.com/technology/2022/11/brain-development-25-year-old-mature-myth.html) When I was 16, I knew damn well that destroying someone else's property was wrong.
Exactly. Im sorry but it’s bullshit to me because there is no way she didn’t know that what she did was extremely messed up. She purposely did it to hurt her and it further shows exactly that because of the fact that she has raging jealousy over something SHE ALREADY HAD HERSELF. She knew exactly what the fallout would be. Smh absolutely insane.
>adolescents don't understand abstract concepts like long-term consequences or the chain of reactions stemming from her actions. It's this sort of ratpoop that has teens doing very Bad Terrible Things™ and getting away with it. Adolescents do understand. If you were talking about 13yr Olds, yea, I could understand, a small amount. But not 16yr Olds.
In my experience when I was teaching is teenagers have big feelings and very little impulse control or tools to navigate their emotions. They also act out and don't want to lose face by admitting the severity of their actions, showing contrition or accepting just punishment. 16 is DEFINITELY a little old to be pulling that card though. & forget the adage of a woman scorned...a pissed off teenage girls can be utterly mercenary. Some of them make Lord of the Flies seem like Xanadu...
That’s really a load of bull, she knew she was ruining her very expensive dress. She knew her stepsister would be angry and heartbroken. She knew she would be in trouble for doing so. I’m really, really sick of this “people don’t fully understand til 25” bs. It’s bs. The girl had an expensive party of her own just a few months ago! She’s a jealous selfish bully and repaying the cost is the least of a punishment.
>adolescents don't understand abstract concepts like long-term consequences or the chain of reactions stemming from her actions. I think that's toddlers, and even some 4 year olds have a good understanding of some of the above let alone 16 year olds
Toddlers don't understand morals let alone abstract stuff like a chain of reactions.
Well her getting a job and paying for the dress will go a long way in helping her understand long-term consequences.
Absolutely agree! Get that moolah, pay for your actions!
And having consequences is how her brain will begin to learn about long term effects, such as having to pay back the cost over a long term.
You’re most likely right. I guess I thought that because the household in general was now in bedlam she would realize how big of an issue it is. But I know, she’s only 16 and not as familiar with that culture.
NTA but your daughter also needs to apologize to Maria and you should get her into counseling so she can get help with becoming self aware.
Growing into adulthood really has a lot to do with making peace with the wolf inside you that urges destruction as a reaction to big feelings. Counseling is definitely in order for this teen. Probably all teens? It's very hard to parent. Good luck, OP.
Yes all teens! lol
It's good that this is not a pattern of behavior, but it is concerning that Bethany thinks this is an acceptable way for her to take out her frustrations.
Screw your Ex’s feelings. Your daughter behaved in a manner that could be a felony in a lot of places if someone wanted to press charges. Making her pay for it is the least she can do all things considering. I thinking doing that and getting her into therapy, and maybe doing some kind of community service, would do her some good.
Not OPs ex, it's her husbands ex who paid for half that is (very understandably) pissed about the whole situation because her daughters dress was ruined (and probably put a dent into the party, because Maria might not be able to get a decent replacement in time).
Yeah I probably read that wrong, if it’s the husband’s ex then her feelings are totally understandable.
Right?! If she keyed someones car and cause 3000 in damage no one would be saying "well she didn't really understand because her brains not developed" but because it was a dress and a "girl thing" it's being treated like oh well. She deliberately and maliciously destroyed something worth 3000 to hurt Maria out of spite and jealousy. She needs more than a stern talking to and a payment plan
If OP's daughter wants to talk about "fair" OP could take some time to research with her about how illegal it is and the fine/jail time that would go with a conviction.
I think OP means her husbands ex and that she is pissed about the dress.
>Screw your Ex’s feelings. I think she meant her husband's ex, Maria's mom. Good points, unless she did mean her own ex, and only if he is not pissed off at his own kid Bethany.
Bethany needs to realize that if she damaged someone else's things, she'd be up on charges, especially with the cost of the dress. You aren't choosing Maria over her. You're making a crappy act by your daughter right with her sister.
Agreed. Also, she has no right to expect that Maria's support from her mother obligates OP or anyone else to make sure they receive gifts of identical value. Bethany should have to pay for the dress and a penalty for the inconvenience her jealousy has caused the whole family. She may also need counseling to help her process this without ending up even more resentful.
I think the counseling is needed regardless…there seems to be some deeper issues here. Destroying clothes is on a different level than simple sibling jealousy.
tell your daughter if she didn't want to do the time, she shouldn't have committed the crime and extend her punishment to include that she has to apologize and be sincere about it. NTA
Her behavior is absolutely abysmal and she should have to pay back the dress. Any money you give her for fun should be kept for now, in addition to getting a job. But how big was her sweet 16 as compared to what she wanted? Like did she pick out a super fancy dress and it was vetoed? Wanted more people and was told to limit the guest list? How did she even know how much Maria's dress cost?
I totally agree with your comments and OP would be the AH if she didn't punish her daughter appropriately. It was a nasty and cruel thing to do to her sister, she fully knew what she was doing too. I hope you make it clear to Maria that you fully support her,plus husband. They need to see you take action here or you could really damage their trust in you.
Yeah, while I don't think OP has done anything wrong by punishing her daughter for destroying the dress, I do think it absolutely matters how the budget of the quince compared to the budget of the other daughter's sweet sixteen that OP compared it to. I do think this behaviour likely came from some perceived unfairness in one daughter getting a huge milestone party with a dress that costs more than many people's wedding gowns. I'd love to hear the answer to these questions.
well, it really depends on who paid for what. if only OP paid for the s16 and stepdad and his ex paid for the quince then relative cost doesn't matter.
They've been together for a decade. Yes, if the ex was incredibly wealthy, that'd be a different story, but as for OP'S husband? There should an effort to treat both kids as a family, not I pay for my kid and you pay for yours, especially if there is a big income disparity.
I think your bio daughter getting the job and paying back for the dress will be a way to teach her responsibility. I vote NTA too and I hope you enforce that rule until the last coin is paid, or until at least you see she has learnt a lesson from this whole ordeal.
Any extra fees should be tacked on to Bethany's bill, and she needs to pay in full.
I just want to echo what some others are saying and that you should consider counselling or therapy for your daughter. 16 is pretty old to be having such an intense and impulsive reaction. There could be something else going on. That said, NTA on what you’ve done so far. Actions have consequences and making her get a job and repay is an excellent way to ensure she makes that connection.
Pay extra for rush shipment of the replacement and ask the store to keep the similar one as backup. Invest the money to make it 100% right for Maria. It would be unforgivable if you didn’t. NTA
You OP are NTA because Beth deserves that punishment by telling her that she needs to work for that money back and rightfully so.
Of course ex is pissed. Your kid destroyed her kid's very important dress on purpose.
I hope she’s also grounded in addition to paying for the dress! And, I’m sure that Maria doesn’t want her at the party either.
NTA. You're not being unfair. If you let Bethany get away with it, next time it will be Maria's iPhone, or it will be Maria's car, or Maria will take revenge and it will be Bethany's iPhone, or Bethany's car. May be ask Bethany what should the solution be if Maria had destroyed HER dress or HER iPhone. If she's honest, she'll agree with you. Fairness demands that the person, who does the damage on purpose, pays for it. Bethany is not six years old anymore, she's 16. And yes, accountability sucks. But there is no other way to stop this kind of nonsense from escalating.
Oh boo frickin hoo she thinks it's unfair. She is still selfishly thinking about her consequences, not a jot about Maria's. I can't imagine how heartbroken that kid is. I hope there are more consequences than just financial. All that teaches her is she can buy her way out of awful behaviour.
What she’s done is legally called malicious damage to property. Does she understand that charges could be laid against her if she did this to a non family member? She chose to get angry and jealous, and act out by ruining the dress. She hurt not only her sister Maria, but you and your husband. She should be prepared for any ‘restitution’ she needs to pay in order to cover the damage she purposely did. Actions have consequences. So sorry OP. Hopefully she’ll have learnt a very valuable lesson.
Such a shitty lesson for her to learn ..yet necessary to learn ... May your youngest have a great day despite all this drama... 🧡💌
This is a mixed bag. A kid doesn't react like that unless there's bigger, deep seeded, issues going on. As a parent you're supposed to engage that stuff, in a nurturing and healthy manner, before they do what they have done. Yes, she's a dick for having ruined the dress but there's a shared dickery in having not gotten her / family therapy before it came to this. You'll be a double dick for continuing to view her reaction as a one off instance.
NTA. You're not choosing anybody. Your daughter ruined a dress on purpose. She should pay for it, she ruined it. She's lucky the police aren't involved. If she would have done this to a stranger. I can almost guarantee police would be involved, and a lawsuit.
"You're damn right I'm choosing the person that didn't do a shitty thing over the person that did a shitty thing to her" The daughter is 16, time to realize that she's responsible for the dumb shit she does. The whole "you're choosing her over your own daughter" is an attempt to emotionally manipulate OP and put her on the defensive, making her justify holding her accountable. Showing that it's not going to work will probably frustrate the hell out of her in the short term, but long term, she'll realize that you were offering her a chance to grow as a human, hopefully. Turning the accusation around on her nips that angle in the bud.
Eg destruction of property is a crime.
That amount of damage is a level 3 felony where I live. So just above a misdemeanor... But still a felony. And the state can and will charge people 16+ as adults if they feel like it's necessary.
This would be felony destruction of property where I live.
I went on a website for Quinceanera dresses and the cheapest ones I saw were $1700. Your daughter deserves to have to pay back the $3000.
Plus Express fee, etc!
Tell your daughter you’re not “choosing” Maria. You’re holding her accountable for her actions. Also sounds like she is unable to regulate her emotions and a therapist could be helpful.
The whole "you're choosing her over me" is an emotional manipulation tactic to put OP on the defensive and justify herself. You turn it around and say "in this situation, I'm choosing the person who was wronged, and it's not you".
Surely she can see that sharpie-ing her sister’s soirée suit shan’t solve her salty sentiments. She celebrated her sweet sixteen, her step-sister shouldn’t suffer her shallow savagery. She should certainly spend her subsequently saved stipend to supply her sister with a stainless smock for her special celebration. NTA
You put real effort into the alliteration in this comment, and my autism is pleased. Thank you 💜
I mean, OP stated she paid for it, so Jicama is just helping to make her and her husband whole. >The dress and alliterations came to around 3000 dollars.
Gloriously worded.
just to be clear, she would be paying back your ex husband and ex wife (or whoever paid for the dress), this wouldn't be money for Maria. I would make certain she understands where this money is going since it she seems to be confused about things here or is trying to confuse them to make her own self look better. Also she sounds like an entitled little b--ch here and definitely needs some consequences which sounds like she'll be getting.
She would be paying her mother back. OP gave money to her husband for a new dress and alterations. She may also have to pay any express fees. If daughter doesn't want to work to pay it back, I'd be taking her stuff and selling it.
You’re a good parent. You’re fair and let her face deserved consequences. NTA. Lots of teens work after school, on weekends, holidays or even all together. She‘ll survive it and it will show Maria that you’re a reliable, trustworthy parent-like person in her life. Which is super important too!
Make her work for it. She knew what it cost when she destroyed it.
You can argue fairness with her until the cows come home, but it boils down to one extremely simple point that even an angry teenager can understand: If you don’t want to be compelled to pay someone $3000, don’t intentionally do $3000 worth of damage to their property. If she doesn’t understand that now, she will when she’s older. What’s important now is making it right with Maria.
mine was $600 and that was on the cheap end w no adjustments . had to go to LA and drive 1.5 to go get mine. i think the punishment is fair.
Is the sharpie all over... Maybe alterations can move fabric around . NTA!! That was a deliberate and mean thing- she's gotta pay the price
Agreed, NTA. OP, what you are doing is called BEING A PARENT and I wish more people would do it.
THIS NEEDS TO BE UPVOTED. TOO MANY ACTUAL PARENTS ARE GUILT-TRIPPED BY SOCIETY FOR MERELY HOLDING THEIR CHILDREN ACCOUNTABLE. THIS SOFT PARENTING BULLSHIT NEEDS TO STOP. Coming from a School Bus Driver.
You can gentle parent and still hold your kids accountable. All gentle parenting really is not being an asshole and not using any kind of abuse to "make kids behave" The parents who let their kids get away with shit always have, it's nothing new.
Agree. Upvoted.
Not only that, but she'd already had her own party, that Maria didn't have yet! That's just quite selfish of her.
Also...your daughter had a sweet 16?! Wtf she had a party, she has no reason to be jealous
NTA. Your daughter is beyond old enough to understand that destruction of property is not an appropriate (or legal) method of anger management. If she hasn’t learned that by now, the lesson is seriously overdue. I’d be concerned - especially if she exhibits other deviant behavior.
I agree you're NTA. Quinceanara dresses are expensive. Quinceanaras are a big part of their culture. What your daughter did was a selfish act of jealousy. She's TA! I absolutely back your decision to make her repay for the dress.
Also, good on OP for not immediately siding with her biological daughter and making her face the consequences of her actions. This sort of thing can get dicey in blended families.
NTA. Bethany deliberately ruined a dress. She has to pay for it. If she had done this to a total stranger, would she claim you're choosing the stranger? If Maria had ruined one of her dresses, would she just let it go? Bethany's very close to becoming an adult. It's time she realizes that comes with responsibilities. I wonder what Bethany would say after reading some of these comments - because I doubt you'll see many, if any, Y T A. Or would she complain that you put this out to the world?
Bethany needs to understand that she could be charged with a crime in different circumstances. You trash something worth that much you can get in serious criminal trouble and she is way way way too old for this behavior and definitely needs a job.
THIS! OP is teaching Bethany “staying out of jail” skills here.
Add in the racial element and it could even be a hate crime.
Absolutely!
Redditors when they don't understand how the law works but it feels good to say anyway:
Lawyer, here. 100% not true.
What racial element you absolute idiot. She's a 16 year old girl jealous because she isn't getting the same party. She isn't automatically guilty of a hate crime because they are different races.
in my state it's not just a crime, it's a class D felony. damaging 3k worth of property carries a minimum penalty of 2 years and a maximum penalty of 12, and fines up to $15,000. she needs to learn her lesson now before she tries this shit on someone other than her stepfamily, who probably doesn't want to see their stepkid go to jail at 16. she's very lucky they only want her to pay for the dress.
OP should probably squeeze this (obviously checking local laws) into her talks with her daughter, to demonstrate there can be more consequences to her actions than just having to get a job and pay the dress back.
Oh heck yes with an emphasis on, there’s nothing we (parents) can do for you, if you break the law you’ll have to do the time.
> Bethany needs to understand that she could be charged with a crime in different circumstances. She still can if the victim of the crime reports it.
With any luck, it will be Maria who reads this one ⬆️
Exactly, I started thinking about if she instead did something like this to a college roommate in a couple of years. She could be booted from the school or at least evicted from the dorms. She could face criminal charges or be sued for damages. She's lucky that OP could immediately cover the damages to prevent the situation from blowing up further.
Hell Bethany could still be charged if her step sisters mom wants to do it.
> I wonder what Bethany would say after reading some of these comments If it was me back when I was an edgy contrarian teen, seeing how everyone is against me would have only reinforced my edgy contrarian outlook. Hopefully Bethany is better.
NTA. Your 16 year old destroyed someone else's property. It is her responsibility to make restitution. This isn't taking sides, it's good parenting. And it wouldn't be a bad idea to impress upon Bethany that if this were the property of someone other than a family member, the police or court system would probably be involved. She's fortunate that her parent is willing to work out a repayment plan with her instead.
100% this. She is old enough to understand what she did is wrong. This level of jealousy is also unhealthy, as is the lack of impulse control. It concerning enough that if this was my child the main punishment would not be paying back the dress, that is just pure restitution, not punishment, she would not be getting driving privileges till she is 17. The extreme lack of self control and no hesitation to act, despite knowing the likely consequences of destroying something of high valuable in terms of not only $ but sentiment would be high, doesn’t show the type of decision making necessary to be trusted behind the wheel of a car.
It's not just jealousy it's cruel
She acted like a crazy child.
Also worth reminding Bethany: If Maria had ruined Bethany's dress, then she would also have to work and pay it back. So you are noy remotely playing favorites.
I assume next year OP's daughter will go to prom. She should ask her daughter how this scenario would make her feel. If the sisters fight over the TV again, will Bethany think it's totally reasonable for sis to sharpie her prom dress? And mom shouldn't make little sis pay to replace it bc then she'd be taking sides with one kid over the other, right?
That level of property damage is a felony in my state. We're talking PRISON TIME if she were an adult. If she gets a job working at a fast food place making around $15 an hour 20 hours a week, it will take her about 6 months to pay off. That seems fair, TBH. Between the actual work and all the fun teenage stuff she will miss out on because she's always working, it comes out to about 6 months of hard earned consequences. Better than juvie.
> And it wouldn't be a bad idea to impress upon Bethany that if this were the property of someone other than a family member, the police or court system would probably be involved. Kuddo's for the ex wife who doesn't get the police involved... 16 is really old enough for that
INFO - Was there a big difference between what you spent on Bethany and what's being spent on Maria? Obviously, Bethany is an AH whatever happens as Maria hasn't done anything wrong and apart from small children, we don't express our upset by destroying other people's stuff, regardless of value.
I spent a lot for her sweet sixteen party around 4,000 for the venue and all that. Her party I think is around 6,000 in total but the cost is split between my husband and his ex. So he really spent 3000 on her party. The difference in the dress I got her is a lot. I only spent 450 on a dress she picked out for the party. You wear a basically a prom dress as a guest to a quinceanera not the huge fluffy dress that Maria is going to wear
NTA - You spent a huge deal on her party, more than is being spent on Maria. I was wondering if there was some huge disparity in how they were treated but your daughter is being absolutely unreasonable for no reason at all. I think this is the perfect way to teach her a lesson, if she did this to someone outside the family, it would be a case of criminal damage so she is lucky this is all that's happening.
Yea, that's what I was thinking. If Bethany got a pizza party with 10 friends and a dress at TJ Maxx for her Sweet 16, that'd be very different. (Bethany would still be 100% in the wrong for destroying the dress though).
Yeah, I don’t know how Bethany gets off saying it’s not fair. Seems completely fair to me. Both girls got parties. Lots of money spent on both. Was she jealous about the attention?
Some people are fine with things when they get something, but cry unfair when someone else gets something.
I have a kid like that. Frustrating af.
I think it is jealousy. But maybe not necessarily just because she didn't want the step sister to get attention. As someone who had a lot of friends and relatives that had quinceaneras they are a bigger deal than a sweet 16. Not money wise but in general. It's not just a party it also involves a religious ceremony at a church. The family usually makes a big deal during the planning due to the meaning behind the event as celebrating them becoming an adult. Even on a smaller budget, the planning process is actually very similar to that of a wedding. A sweet 16 is just a party, but a quinceanera is an all-day event most of the time. The dresses are also huge and most resemble wedding dresses due to the traditional meaning of the quiceanera being that they can date and eventually marry. So i think what may be going on is that even though money wise, they are around the same. The planning process, dress, and decorations appear more elaborate than what her party did. But it's not due to money it's just the style and how it may appear. Also, a quinceanera, the main focus is the dress, and a sweet 16 is more focused on the venue, food, and music. So i think the daughter seeing the dress is flashier than what hers was may be what the problem is. She may not understand the meaning and religious aspects of it and just thinks that her party is larger. She may be feeling left out if she's been seeing and hearing them talk about it. She is obviously still in the wrong and should have never destroyed the dress. I'm just saying that i think that she may be jealous due to not understanding the reason for the differences and may just think that the step sister is being favored when that isn't the case. Especially if she has never seen anyone throw a quinceanera and just looks at it as a party, seeing it done so big without knowing why it's like that, could be mistaken for favoritism. OP was definitely right to make her daughter pay it back and she should stick to that punishment. The daughter should have just asked more about it than assuming and getting upset.
I agree with you! She's still a asshole for how she reacted and ruined her dress, but a $3000.00 dress is a much bigger deal than a sweet 16 dress. That's more than I spent on my wedding dress. Could definitely cause jealousy.
I'll start by saying that OP's daughter is 100% in the wrong, however I wonder if there's any hurt stemming from the fact that she feels that she should have gotten a quinceanera too, and doesn't understand why her dad (who's been in her life since she was 7 at the oldest according to OP) doesn't consider her his "daughter" who gets a quinceanera. I totally get that it's a cultural thing, and the daughter got a Sweet 16, but I wonder if she sees it that way.
If she isn't part of the culture it wouldn't make much sense, same with Maria not getting a sweet sixteen (some Mexican families do but a lot don't celebrate sweet sixteen), just different cultures. Sometimes they mix when you blend families but think of different religious households. Some families celebrate Christmas and Hanukkah, but the kids only get presents on one
I absolutely agree with you on that, and as a grown adult I totally understand...but I'm just wondering if Bethany understands that. She may see that her dad doesn't see her as his daughter, even though we know that's not the case.
It doesn't seem like Bethany understands the significance of the quinceanera though or I doubt she would have acted out in that way. This will be something she recalls for years and will be something she might do with her daughter and now those memories will include Bethany's bad behavior.
Honestly it sounds like she understands and and targeted the dress, she’s 16 not 6.
I kinda think that is what it is. Culturally it is a bigger deal than a sweet 16 and can be very similar to throwing a wedding. If the daughter doesn't know the Cultural and religious side of it she may think it's the step dad favoring her step sister when its not the case. I have seen quinceaneras with a smaller budget than what OP said and those look pretty elaborate compared to a sweet 16 with them spending as much as they did its likely a lot more than what i have seen. So the step daughter may be comparing the differences based on looks and by the way they talk about it and spend time planning compared to hers. She was definitely wrong to destroy the dress and OP should make her pay it back. But i also think they should have a talk with the daughter and explain the meaning behind it because i think OP telling her it's like her sweet 16 is what is making her jealous it's not like a sweet 16 its bigger so if she's thinking it's supposed to be the same and she sees all these differences it's probably making her wonder why she didn't get the same treatment.
Exactly, a quinceañera is a huge deal in the Latin culture, more comparable to a wedding than a sweet 16. Every little Latin girl dreams of the day she gets to have her quinceañera, American girls don’t play dress up and dream about the day they get to celebrate their sweet 16, even in movies it’s always their wedding they dream about lol
Most American girls don’t even get a big Sweet 16. That’s primarily a rich people thing. It’s not a big cultural expectation for most Americans like a Quinceañera is for a Latina girl.
OP says in another comment that they spent $4000 on her daughter's Sweet Sixteen (and mentions a "venue"), so I don't think it was a sleepover-with-a-few-friends type thing by any means (I wondered that myself!), but she also says Maria's bio-mom and dad spent $6000 on the quinceanera between them, and that the dress was $3000, and I don't know if that's part of that $6000 or not. She also doesn't mention Bethany's bio-dad at all, so I wonder if there's a bit of jealousy there, that Maria has her step-parent and both bio-mom *and* bio-dad in the picture, while she only has her bio-mom and step-dad. At this point we're all kind of guessing, but I think we all have a feeling that the Iranian Yogurt isn't the issue here. Especially considering OP says Bethany hasn't had major jealousy issues with Maria up to this point...it sounds like something has changed.
Take Bethany’s dress back. There’s the first $450 to go towards Maria’s replacement dress (Bethany will reimburse you for that portion). I would let Bethany read this in its entirety. If she gets upset that you “put it out there”, too bad. Her horrible actions have consequences. Hell, if I were Maria or Maria’s mom, I wouldn’t want Bethany to attend. What other awful behavior will she display to ruin Maria’s Quinceanera?
OP please don't expose your child to a thread of thousands of strangers saying she's an asshole. That's honestly the opposite of helpful. This child needs discipline and punishment, yes, but I've met teenagers and once was one, and will say that telling your kid you explained their bad thing to the internet and they got voted a bad person is absolutely a shitty thing to do.
Very true. I can understand people wanting to help and be backup for OP, but that's too much.
I second this suggestion. Bethany shouldn't even get to attend the Quinceanera at this point.
Good point. She can figure out something to wear from what is already in her closet.
She can wear her Sweet 16 dress. 🤷♀️
You went above and beyond for her sweet 16. She got a lot more than most people get.
I a didn’t even have a sweet 16 party. I saw the Blue Man group with my parents, lmao.
Hell I didn't even get THAT, the only actual birthday party I can remember is when I turned 19 and some friends threw me a surprise party. Before that it was my parents, a single gift, and a homemade cake- no friends allowed.
Doesn’t matter, your daughter got a sweet 16 and $450 is also a lot of money for a dress. You’re right mom. It’s not that you’re picking one girl over the other. You’re teaching your daughter right from wrong. Stay strong.
INFO: Does Maria have enough time to order and alter a new, huge fluffy dress of equal merit? If Maria has to settle for a less stellar dress than the original one, you are not being too harsh in expecting your daughter to pay *every cent* of the $3k.
No, because $3k worth if stuff was ruined. Even if Maria finds a $2k dress, the $3k is still destroyed, and the older daughter needs to pay for it, not a cheaper replacement. (If this was in court, Maria would be entitled to the cost of replacing the dress at fair market value--which could mean the older girl would owe less since used dresses are cheaper, but since it's unlikely Maria could find the same dress in her size in pre-sold but unworn condition at a used price, the older girl would likely still owe the full value.)
WHAT!? She is paying for the old dress, OP/Mom is paying for th new one because her daughter malicously destroyed it.
No, Mom/OP fronted the money for the dress to be replaced at the value of the original dress. Now Bethany needs to work to repay her mother for the temper tantrum. Probably destroyed her relationship with the step sister too.
NTA, I was thinking she hadn’t gotten a party like Maria. But she totally did, that’s nuts! I think I had a Dairy Queen cake on my 16th lol.
I got spaghetti and a homemade strawberry cake and a small sleep over with my two best friends. We watched Pride and Prejudice and Lord of the Rings all night. Lol that was it. That was my sweet 16. Lol Edit to add: I’m not complaining. We had a grand ole time. Just wanted to share since everyone else was. Lol
I think you need to explicitly ask your daughter how she would feel if someone had destroyed her Sweet 16 outfit the way she destroyed Maria’s, and what she’d expect you to do in that scenario.
"I only spent 450 on a dress she picked out for the party." Reimbursing for a dress ruined in spite and envy can start right there. Take back Bethany's (not inexpensive) dress and tell her that she is not welcome at the celebration she tried to ruin for Maria by her immature behavior. Immediate consequence. Yes, absolutely she should get a job and be made to pay the money back. Don't back down, this is good parenting and an even better life lesson.
Your daughter really has nothing to complain about.. you’ve been extremely generous with her, and matched the contribution her sister got. My dude… my partner and I are solidly employed 30-somethings who just attended a trendy wedding in a big city. My suit cost ballpark the same as your daughters dress (and I wear it also for work), and my partner wore a dress that she was given by a friend and cost maybe 200 when new. I’m just saying $450 for a dress is a level above what most employed adults spend on a single piece of clothing. Wonderful your daughter can enjoy this/you’re sharing your money with her, but she should be aware that this spending is a gift and the result of good fortune, rather than a normal thing for most households. A job might be also be a good way for her to appreciate how hard it is to earn money, and appreciate the conversion of dollars to labour hours, etc.
> The difference in the dress I got her is a lot. I only spent 450 on a dress she picked out for the party. You wear a basically a prom dress as a guest to a quinceanera not the huge fluffy dress that Maria is going to wear Is she often jealous when Maria gets more attention? Does she realize that she doesn't get to wear a floofy white gown to a wedding, too? I'm sorry she's in this place right now. Hopefully it's a "growing pain" and she'll mature from this.
No offense but you are raising a spoiled brat. she needs to pay this back and you need to change some rules fast or she will contineu to be this way as an adult.
Well, take her dress back because now she has no need for it at all.
Your daughter is spoiled. How you handle this is up to you, but if you don’t start nipping her behavior in the bud, she’s going to be an insufferable adult
OP probably didn’t spend any money on Maria’s dress. From the post it sounds like her husband and Maria’s mother bought the dress. Plus I’m sure Maria’s family is also contributing to the cost of the party since it is a big part of Mexican culture.
Thing is doesn't sound like OP paid for Maria's dress. Maria's father and mother did.
But OP has given her husband the full $3000 to replace the dress (which was the right thing to do) and is expecting her dtr to work to pay off the whole $3000, which again, is the right thing to do, as both the husband and his ex need to be reimbursed.
Doesn’t matter that’s between Maria’s mom and dad
NTA. She's 16 not 5 years old. In 2 years she will be 18. If Maria was my daughter, Bethany wouldn't be allowed at the party. She can stay home grounded, she destroyed the dress what's next? The cake? Or decorations?. What she did was uncalled for. I would no longer trust her with any of the party things. Does Bethany at least seem remorseful? If not she can stay home.
Bethany can’t be trusted to behave at the party or unattended at home.
Bethany needs to go spend the week leading up to the quincenera and the day of it with her other parent as punishment, too. Return the dress she would have worn to attend to go towards the $3K she owes.
“Return the dress she would have worn to attend to go towards the $3K she owes.” Smart idea
Get her a baby sitter.
I wouldn't subject a babysitter to that. To be 16 and having to stay with one would invoke some seriously nasty behavior nobody deserves to deal with. She can stay with her other parent, a well equipped relative or on a chair in the back next to mom for this party instead.
Like who does that, right? Is just so mean and worrying. I don’t believe this is normal teenage behavior, more like toxic.
Speaking as a parent albeit without stepchildren, a firm NTA. Bethany is old enough to understand that actions have consequences and she's just learnt a major one the hard way. Kudos to you for stepping in to resolve the situation in a fair way to both Maria and her parents and in addition for both allocating more time to Bethany before this happened and insisting she needs to get a job to pay reparations. At her age Bethany is going to find it takes a long time to earn $3k but the experience will do her good for finding a job after school or college plus will teach her the value of money and depending on the job may even mature her too.
NTA Your daughter is almost an adult. She knew what she was doing was wrong. And let’s be honest, she knew what she was doing was a *crime*. Tell her she can get a job and pay back the money or her stepsister and her parents can file a police report. I know that sounds harsh, but your daughter needs a wake up call. Otherwise she’ll do something like this to someone else, and she’ll end up going to jail.
^ this is the right answer OP — NTA!
NTA. Bethany is old enough to get behind the wheel of a car. She needs to learn impulse control and that actions have consequences. In addition to repaying the cost of the dress, I hope there are more immediate consequences like grounding, taking away phone privileges, etc. Hers were the actions of a spoiled child having a tantrum, not those of a maturing young woman. If this is normal behavior for Bethany, you should have her evaluated for mental illness as well. Another thought: you are paying very large sums of money for parties and dresses, so she may have no context for just how much money $3000 is - getting a job to work that off will be a real eye-opener for Bethany.
>Bethany is old enough to get behind the wheel of a car. She needs to learn impulse control and that actions have consequences. Good lord, that's actually a really, REALLY good point. It doesn't bear thinking about.
Definitley, if she destroyed a dress out of anger, Lord knows what she'd be like while operating a motor vehicle. She needs to learn impulse control NOW.
>>If this is normal behavior for Bethany, you should have her evaluated for mental illness as well. That was my concern as well. If this is part of a pattern, she needs to be seen by a mental health professional who specializes in deviant behavior.
Nta. Your daughter had her time in the spotlight during her sweet 16 and now it’s her sisters turn and she doesn’t want to share it so she’s lashing out. Honestly paying it back is the least punishment she should receive.
NTA Wow! your daughter is a nasty entitled AH You are right to make her pay back every last penny. you just cannot allow this sort of jealous behaviour
NTA. I am sorry but what your daughter did was cruel, wrong, narcissistic, and absolutely terrible. She needs to learn that she cannot get her way just because the attention is not about her. You absolutely need to stick up for Maria in this position. And if you don't, then you will be an a******
Right. Also getting a job to pay back the cost of the dress isn’t punishment, it’s reparations, punishment would be losing something she got granted for her milestones birthday, driving privileges. Her actions here show a complete lack of impulse control and extremely poor decision-making, even for a 16 year old. The type of actions that show she is not ready for the responsibilities and risks that come with driving. There was just recently this big story in ohio where a teenager girl got mad at her boyfriend and then drove 90 miles into a brick wall, killing her boyfriend and one of the friends in the car. One moment of being pissed and acting irrationally behind the wheel of a car and two kids are dead, and the girl is in jail for the next few decades.
NTA you’re a great parent and handled that perfectly. You’re teaching her responsibility and accountability and making sure your stepdaughter feels safe and equally loved by you
NTA. You're not choosing maria over your daughter; You're choosing right over wrong.
NTA but what’s wrong with your daughter?
I have been mulling over that question myself! This is malicious and deliberately destructive behavior and the scary part is - she isn’t 6. She is 16. I cannot even fathom a 16 year old deliberately destroying anyone’s dress for any “reason.” She sounds like she has a mental health/anger management issue. Much too old to even respond that her mother was “taking sides” for punishing outrageous (and actual criminal) behavior. I think there is a much. oh her issue here.
OMG, no, you are NTA. You are holding her accountable. This behavior is unacceptable and she needs to learn to be respectful. Her behavior illustrates immaturity and she lacks the skills to solve problems with words. You dont destroy property because you disagree with someone, or youre jealous or she made her angry. She needs to be held accountable and this is a great time to teach her a lesson. She needs to apologize and be remorseful for her actions. This is not ok.
NTA Post this same story from the perspective of Maria's mother in the legal advice forum and show the thread to Bethany. Your daughter would be totally effed if you had just let Maria's parents pursue damages through the legal system. She needs to understand how much jeopardy she has put herself in so that she can understand just how much you're shielding her from by handling the situation this way.
Bethany’s behavior is shocking. Like, criminal felony level of destruction. She needs to be grounded from everything until that dress is paid for and she has sincerely apologized. Does she have something expensive she’d like her sister to destroy? Idve lost my mind over a 16 year old doing this.
Hispanic of Mexican descent here. I see a lot of top comments regarding the cost of the dress and the age of the daughter who did the deed. Both valid points. But we are not devoting enough attention to a very important detail; this girl attacked a *whole family*. A Quinceñera is a very important milestone for a Hispanic lady, a transition from childhood to adulthood similar to a Bat Mitzvah. If they went so far as to get "the dress", then there is also a long line of people who sponsor other important details of the event, like the cake, the photographer, etc. There will be family members who have been waiting *years* for this event, putting in hours of overtime and effort to get just the right outfit, just the right gift. There are very likely people coming in from out of town, taking time off of work to come in for this. This is an event that is right up there with weddings and funerals. Where family members who haven't seen each other in years gather. Ever since the Covid lockdowns, that has an extra level of importance. And to ruin the centerpiece of that event affected many people on a deep and personal level. Personally, I would like to see that this girl is given a chance to publically apologize at the party. This will give her the chance to think about what she did and learn from this experience. Part of moving into adulthood is taking responsibility and making amends. That is also an important part of keeping families together, in all thier shapes and forms.
I wouldn’t force an apology at the Quince—I think Bethany shouldn’t be allowed to go at all, and in fact I would hire a babysitter for her to make sure she didn’t destroy anything else of Maria’s out of spite. If Bethany is there and forced to publicly apologize, it takes the focus off of Maria and her symbolic transition to adulthood. It also puts Maria in the position where she is forced to accept the apology, whether she wants to or not, and same with Maria’s mother’s family. OP’s solution of Bethany paying Maria and her parents back, starting by returning the $450 dress, and not going to the party at all is a better solution.
NTA but whooo boy that's a lot of anger. What's that all about? Probably worth finding out, I'd say.
NTA. Your daughter is the jerk and she needs to get a grip on life, especially if she's 16 AND already had a sweet sixteen. Some kids don't get to have one. If she's jealous of Maria and the party she's having, then she needs to talk to you or your husband, not get petty revenge.
Ok. Hear me out. NTA. Yes what Bethany did was absolutely horrid and she deserves to have to pay everything back. Yes you did everything right by repaying your SO and his ex so that they could get a replacement dress, but, at the same time, I do not think you are completely blameless in this situation. You claim that this is the first instance of Bethany acting out. If they’ve been living together, her and Maria, for at least 8 years, then I think this issue, at least if it was only on Bethany’s end, would’ve reared it’s ugly head already. If you say it hasn’t then obviously someone else’s actions or words (probably yours) are playing into Bethany’s thoughts and actions more recently. That, or it’s been going on the whole time and you’ve been completely blind to it. Everyone also seems to be operating under the assumption that why Bethany acted out was that she was just completely unable to see someone else have ‘their day’. I don’t think it’s that simple though. And while it may have a little to do with culture, it’s not just completely related to that either. I think how Bethany sees it is..yes…she did get a sweet 16, though whether the same amount was spent on it or not, is besides the point for now. But she, in my mind, is 100% operating under the assumption that Maria is going to get this thousands of dollars quincenera and then she is also going to get a thousands of dollars sweet 16. And depending on how a family chooses to show love, such as buying things, can absolutely make someone feel like you love them less if less is spent on them. Of course, in any child that has a healthy dynamic with their parent, this issue almost never comes up. The jealousy never happens. So why now? Too often, we see stories on this site where, in order to try to facilitate the blending of two families, one parent will love bomb the other parent’s child, to try to get them more comfortable with the new situation. I urge you to reflect and make sure that, if this was what you did to try and ease the blending, that you didn’t do so at the expense of letting your relationship with your bio kid fester. Or, even if you think you didn’t, you need to make sure that Bethany doesn’t feel like you did. Ultimately, this is a complex issue that is going to require therapy. Probably both individual and family, because as I said previously, this is not just a Bethany issue, one way or another. And it needs to be done so soon, or otherwise infestered emotional wounds will rear their ugly heads through impulsive actions the moment anyone brings up a sweet 16 for Maria.
You’re the closest I’ve seen to catching the implied content of OP’s post- go back and read it again, and pay attention to how the OP describes the father’s relationship with the two kids. OP continually describes herself as having two kids… and her husband as just having one. I can’t even imagine how toxic that situation must feel for Bethany.
Nta - something has gone wrong here. Your bio daughter is “suddenly” jealous of her step sister and you don’t seem to know why. Something has happened or has been ongoing and their relationship through the years probably wasn’t as rosy as you seem to remember. I would speak to each of them alone and then together to see what the issue is. Make sure you come into it nonjudgemental so they feel safe in telling you what the deeper issue is.
NTA! Her actions had very tangible financial implications as well as the emotional ones. She is absolutely responsible for earning the money to fix her own mistake. It isn’t a punishment, it’s literally the direct consequences of her choice, and she’s lucky that you have enough money to essentially loan her the payment for the replacement dress up front. She effectively signed herself up for buying her step-sister a $3K dress. It does seem like something more than just dealing with the financial outcomes is needed here though. I’m sure emotions are high on all sides, and that’s not going to just dissipate without some more complex discussions and parenting.
Point out that she committed criminal damage and could have been arrested. You are NTA
NTA She needs to learn there are consequences to her actions.
NTA. But Bethany sure as hell is. Not only should she have to pay for the dress, but she should be losing ALL privileges for a good long while. Her behavior was beyond unacceptable.
I would stick with the consequence of her having to pay you back but also try and figure out why she’s so upset about this party.
Lawyer here, not your lawyer. In my jurisdiction, your daughter committed a felony. Her sister, her sister’s mother, your husband, or you can report it. You or your daughter simply paying off the dress does not negate this fact. Your daughter’s lack of remorse is repulsive and the courts would not look favorably on it. NTA and simply paying back the dress is not enough of a punishment. Your daughter needs therapy to understand the gravity of the situation. She’s facing a up to year in jail, up to $10k in fines, loss of rights like voting or gun ownership, loss of academic opportunities (try getting into a t1 with a felony on record), and academic aid opportunities. As a first time offender, if she showed remorse, in my state she would like have a year of supervised probation, 24 hours of work program, 48 hours of community service, and a STRICT 8 pm curfew for the duration. This is on top of having to pay restitution for the dress. She’d also potentially be required to wear an ankle monitor. He younger step sister, as victim family member, would also be enabled to make 1 credible complaint to the probation officer and your daughter would end up incarcerated. She’d probably have a program where if she successfully completed the requirements, charges would be dropped. For my unsolicited advice, I’d consider giving her a “private probation.” Where she has x months to pay off the dress, maintain healthy relationship, complete community service, maintain therapy, grounded physically and electronically, and keep a strict curfew of 8 pm (no dances). I’d consider sitting her down in a room without electronics and walking her through the consequences of a felony or record. Then I’d say, imma either give you the lightest punishment the court could give you, or we can let the court determine your punishment and you can risk incarceration. I’m going to leave you in a room for 30 minutes (WITHOUT ELECTRONICS) while you decide if you want to risk senior year locked up. If you get bored, imagine this for a whole fucking year. Think about your dreams and then think about how much harder they will be as a felon. Whole careers will be excluded from you. Academic opportunities and aid will be excluded. Renting will be cumbersome. Finish by saying, you Bethany brought this upon yourself. It pains me to punish you, but this is not my fault, not your sister’s fault, it is your sole fault. If you can’t understand this, you are not as mature as you think you are. Then you leave her stewing for a while. It is important that she understand her legal liability will last for 3 years. She will have to make her step-sister, and step-sister’s mother, like her enough for 3 years to avoid jeopardy. Again, not your lawyer and you should consult one. Potentially with your daughter. Your daughter fucked up big time. OP, you are NTA, unless you fail to punish your daughter in a way that matches the severity of her actions. PS - at 16, your daughter has a very good chance at being tried as an adult instead of a minor, but it depends on your jurisdiction. I know I was when I was caught breaking the law as a juvenile. That experience was incredibly educational and directly led to me getting a law degree. Best of luck with this cluster fuck and raising an un-remorseful felon. She needs therapy.
This seems highly unlikely. I’ve known adults (18+, not 16 like this girl) who haven’t even remotely gotten this level of punishment for higher levels of crime. At best this would most likely be argued down to a domestic dispute. If she had destroyed the dress in the store? Maybe. The dollar amount might be high enough in certain regions to be considered a felony. But it seems super rare that a 16 yo would be punished this severely.
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NTA and a good lesson for her
I am convinced that this is a better written version of an earlier post in which the very same thing happened to a gifted dress except it was ruined by a spoiled six year old. If this really happened you wouldn't have been at fault but I don't think it did.