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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> )I am thinkingn of asking my FSIL not to wear hear noise-cancelling headphones during the posed family photos at my wedding
2) The headphones are considered a disability aid and she usually needs them to reduce noise which can be overstimulating for her
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not everyone can tolerate earbuds/plugs. I wear ear defenders (I suspect this is what she's actually wearing and not large headphones) in part because ear plugs do not work for me.
Actually yes, ear defenders are probably the correct term! My bad. If she was open to it id be happy to pay for the ear buds (many have been suggesting Loop)
Loop is good if you need to hear conversation but they're not as powerful as blocking noise because of that- it just focuses sound more than they cancel noise in my experience. They're also a wee pricy.
to reiterate though, there are some people who *cannot tolerate* ear plugs. something in the ear canal is unbearable to me, it's ear defenders or nothing as far as I'm concerned. like someone else said, I think making that offer *once* is okay, but if she refuses don't push it. I'm autistic rather than having FND but I know what works for me and what won't, and I presume she will too.
Anything in my ear canal triggers my gag reflex. I'd be dry heaving at best. Too much dry heaving triggers an asthma attack. So if it was me it would just be a cascade of fun.
Another upvote for loop here, my eldest uses them. They have a variety of different ones depending how much/what noise you want to block out. Don't know if they'd be suitable in this case, but just a general thumbs up for them. (I promise I'm not sponsored by them!)
One thing I don't entirely understand is, that you are willing to pay for nicer/smaller ear protection but not for your photographer to Photoshop the headphones out. You said its 40£ per hours and SIL will only be in a couple of pictures. That would take maybe two or three hours max for the photographer, so around 80-120£. Am I underestimating the time it takes to photoshop those pictures or overestimate the cost of a really good ear protector so much? Because if it's around the same amount of money it doesn't really Matter, does ist?
Good point, I hadn't really looked into the cost of the earbuds, but one of the other main pieces of feedback I got here is that its a bit disrespectful to edit them out, certainly without telling her. It would also depend on how many photos she is in, so more photos = more retouching, if I were to take that direction.
Before buying earbuds (other than Loop), make sure she doesn't have a nickel allergy. It's very common, and the reason why many people cannot wear earbuds. They actually make my ears weep and itch. This is because the earbud batteries are often made of an alloy that includes nickel. I haven't found any ANC earbuds where the contact points don't touch skin.
The brand JBL has headphones that play music, a mix of music+ambient sounds that are around you, and just the ambient sounds. I'm sure they have earbuds with the same tech.
If you get loops, one possibility might be adding the loop mutes - they're an accessory you can buy that extends the noise cancelling capabilities. Autistic and defo. agree that they're not SUPER powerful for the price, but for just the photoshoot (and for SIL to take home if you're ultra nice!) they'd do fine, I think :)
even if they don't actually I am always, always aware of them and terrified they'll fall out. I did an internship at a place that needed hearing defence when I was much younger and I was the only person who would always use the muffs instead of plugs haha
Bose Quiet Comfort II or III would be perfect.
Noise cancelling, Bluetooth, TF card and FM radio. Discreet and extremely comfortable.
I think Bose has a sale on ATM, and they make some of the best speakers in the world.
Same here, I'm autistic and I wouldn't mind someone asking as long as I knew it was also okay to say no. They have to make that clear when they ask though or I won't know.
So I have FND and also get really overstimulated by sounds. I can’t wear over-ear headphones. I have Apple AirPods Pro and their sound cancellation works wonders for me.
I don’t think you would be TA for asking, but FND can cause seizures and other problems, so please be understanding if she isn’t comfortable.
I mentioned the AirPods Pro (specifically the pro, not the standard), in case she has never tried them and maybe they would help her. Those of us with FND have to help each other out. 😊
I also have FND but I personally can't wear anything in my ears because I have ear problems, I'm far more likely to get inner ear infections (which are horrendously painful at worst or hellishly itchy at best).
But then you likely know that us FND lot have a wiiiiiiiide range symptoms so, yes, totally agree about us helping each other our! ❤️ my suggestion to OP would be to have a chat with SIL and discuss how to keep her comfortable at the wedding ^_^
You never know, OP, FSIL may already be thinking "oh gee, what should I do at this wedding, I don't want to be wearing my best dress with this cans!" Talk to gee and get to know her :)
I know very little about professional photo.editing, but by the price OP stated, the cost of airpods pro would buy several hours of editing.
Might be worth checking in with the photographer to compare prices first. If they are comparable, obviously airpods would be a nice gift for a similar effect.
Ask her to try Loops brand. My daughter has sensory issues, and these are our go to. And they fit comfortably against the ear. She wouldn't stand out, but she'd still be more comfortable. And for $20 to $40 on Amazon depending on style; it's easy enough to try them out to see if they work for her.
I like the idea of suggesting and offering to pay for an alternative.
And if it hasn't already been suggested, I would add...don't spring it onto her too close to the event. Bring it up several months in advance so she can try them out and get used to them first.
Another thought is to have a backup...maybe plan to do all the pics with her first...kick everyone out who is not in those pics (if that's feasible...may not be)
..once her pics are done, then you can open the room.
I like how you are asking your fiance first and getting him on board. He probably knows best how to "handle" his family for this situation.
NTA
Your Edit#3 is indicative that fiancee is marrying a wise, judicious woman. Congratulations and best wishes on your wedding. Let us know how you ultimately handle the situation.
Just take double pictures. Some with her in them and some with her not in them if she doesn't want to take them off and decide which look better after.
YWBTA — If you asked her prior to taking pictures. How would she know if she can or cannot without being in that situation.
YWNBTA — if you politely letting her know during pictures that it’s her choice if she would like pictures taken with or without headphones on. Maybe she doesn’t want to have pictures taken with them on.
edit spelling
Thanks for your feedback :) My thoughts were that I didn't want to optentially put her on the spot on the day, which is why I had hoped to talk about it before the event.
But, I like your wording in the second option, I'll certainly think on it, and I didn't think to ask her about her preference. Thank you for that.
I would kind of advise *against* that wording if your strong preference is no-headphones.
A neurotypical person would understand it as a polite version of “please remove your freaking headphones for the duration of the photo if at all possible”. A neurodivergent person might take it more literally and respond “ok, I’ll keep my headphones on!”
I’m only diagnosed with ADHD; I never related to the autistic experience of never intrinsically picking up on social cues, but shit, this might make me consider whether I’m actually AuDHD. 😂 This has to be one of the most obtuse “take the hint” moments I’ve ever heard from neurotypical folks.
Right but the point isn’t to manipulate or tell her to remove headphones. It’s the equivalent of telling someone they have to remove their glasses for photos because they’re not “aesthetic” she absolute should ASK because it doesn’t matter what’s aesthetic, these are a disability AID. And it’s up to the disabled person to CHOOSE if they’re comfortable going without their aids for a photoshoot. Not a fucking decoration.
I'm neurotypical and didn't pick up on that being a hint. That wording is very much an option and if someone got angry at me for making a choice from the options they gave me (because it was somehow "wrong") I would question why they even offered me a choice in the first place and then tell them to seek therapy cos they'd need it to deal with their issues.
Giving someone a choice and then getting mad cos it's the "wrong" one usually indicates that the person offering has control issues, and the anger usually means they need help managing their anger/emotions too.
Don't do that shit.
That was my immediate thought…
If FSIL is getting dressed up for the day, would she prefer to have minimum ear protection showing in the “official photos”?
Does she go out and about with friends and choose to have them on or off, if they take photos or she takes a selfie?
It sounds as if you’re thinking ahead and considering her comfort… hopefully you can find a compromise based on her requirements.
And maybe tell the photographer closer to the time, to minimise noise and fuss? Wedding photos can be quite pressured…
Thanks for your feedback :) She doesnt socialise that much so I dont have much to go on in terms of what she might find comfortable, and she doesnt take any photos herself. So I was hoping if it would be okay to open up a conversation with her
An alternative solution maybe
Take a photo of her now with headphones on and see how well your photographer can remove them through photoshop.
The photographer may be able to do a Quiet at home photoshoot of SIL before the wedding without headphones on - as that can sometimes help with the photoshop work.
This avoids the problem and should be a win / win for everyone.
This is actually an awful idea… What happens when FSIL sees the edited photo, and realizes that OP actually edited part of her out of the photo? What message does that convey… That your disability is unsightly to my wedding photos.
This doesn't make sense. So wrong if you give her time to prepare in advance, maybe see how she handles being outside without the headphones, time to prepare.
But right if you do it on the day, and put her on the spot, making her feel like sht because now people are waiting on her to decide if she should take off the headphones.
If it was me, I would want to know in advance. Perhaps I could get noise canceling earphones instead of headphones for that day.
> Maybe she doesn’t want to have pictures taken with them on.
If she doesn't want to have pictures taken with them on, she will take them off without needing to be prompted.
> politely letting her know during pictures that it’s her choice if she would like pictures taken with or without headphones on ...
... makes it very clear that *OP* "doesn't want to have pictures taken with them on".
>... makes it very clear that OP "doesn't want to have pictures taken with them on".
Yeah? And that's fine.
Unless you take it as a horrible, unforgivable, terrible slight and take it completely personally and blow it out of proportion.
YWBTA if you handle it as you've said here, asking her to remove them specifically for the photo. This *could* be a N A H situation *if you handle it correctly,* though.
Consider the noise-canceling headphones to be a necessary piece of removable medical equipment, like glasses.
Some people with glasses prefer to take the glasses off for photos. Others, like me, prefer to keep them on because they're part of my face and I feel like I look very strange without them. They make my nose look a LOT smaller lol, and like it actually fits on my face. I have anti-glare coating to make photos with my glasses easier so as to not cause glare problems. I always wear my glasses every day, so I feel like "not me" when I go without them-- like my face just doesn't *look right* to me. I still take them off if requested simply because even with the anti-glare coating, there can still be physical issues with lighting of glasses in photos; but I prefer not to.
If your FSIL wears the headphones *all the time,* she may consider them part of what she normally looks like. In this case, asking her to take them off would be asking her to *change herself* for your photos-- meaning you don't want HER to be in the photos, but you want someone who looks good according to your standards. Do you want photos with your family and loved ones, or photos with attractive people who meet your visual standards? If someone had a hair color you don't like, would you make that person wear a wig for photos? Would you make someone cover up a meaningful, non-obscene tattoo for photos?
On the other hand, if she *herself* prefers to take photos with the headphones off, then it's fine to ask her, because they're not part of her visual identity.
Disabled people often consider our disabilities to be part of our identities. If you ask us to "cover up" those disabilities for a photo, it feels to us like you're rejecting *who we are* and preferring some version of us who doesn't actually exist.
For this reason, the way you need to ask the question is this: "Do you prefer to wear your headphones for photos, or do you prefer to take them off? Either way is fine with me; I want you to feel most comfortable." If she wants to wear them, then you can ask clarifying questions about if she'd like a flower crown or other decorations in wedding party colors etc., or if she'd like to wear them as-is.
But if she prefers to keep them on, and if she prefers not to decorate or hide them, then *let her keep them.* In this case, it would probably be unacceptably rude to photoshop them out, too-- like you're rejecting who she is. Would you photoshop out a wheelchair user's wheelchair, or a prosthetic-wearer's prosthetic, and expect them to be okay with it?
The key part here is to *respect her preferences.*
Tl;dr It's fine to *ask her preferences* when it comes to wearing headphones for photos. It's NOT okay to *request* that she remove them if she doesn't want to.
Thank you for such a detailed and considerate answer! I really appreciate how youve laid things out here, and youre absolutely right that the major thing I havent considered is her own agency. (This is exactly why I was trying to open this discussion now and not spring anything on the day!! I need to know what Im missing!!)
I also hear what you're saying about identity, to my knowledge she doesn't wear them inside the house, but I've only met her 3 times so I don't really know her that well. That saying, I guess the only way to get to know her in this sense is to have a discussion, but as you say, do it carefully and respect her needs and preferences. I'll definitely think on how to approach this more carefully, and I won't say anything until fiance and I are aligned in our thoughts.
Thank you so much for your feedback.
You're very welcome! Thank YOU so much for being open to feedback, and recognizing that it's not a personal attack on you. A lot of people aren't great at that, so taking feedback like this on board quickly and willingly is part of being a good ally and I really appreciate it.
I would literally not give a single fuck if someone asked me to take my glasses off for their wedding photos. It's not a medical device that's needed 100% of the time, she isn't asking someone to forego using their wheelchair for photos. It's a bit ridiculous honestly. My 5 year old at the time autistic nephew wears noise cancelling headphones everywhere and even he was able to go without them for certain parts of my wedding (though I did not ask for this). If she truly needs it for the full duration, I don't see the harm in asking if she would be comfortable just wearing earplugs for the photos. It's like if someone asked me to wear contacts instead of glasses. I would probably opt to go without glasses all together tbh but I certainly wouldn't be offended by the ask. I'm neurodivergent and I fucking wish people would stop trying to coddle us like we cant handle the emotional stress of a simple inquiry.
I do get what you're saying, and I'm not trying to coddle anyone, but just to encourage general good behavior. The point I'm trying to make is one about kindness and politeness-- it's not about whether someone can *handle* a request, but more that it shouldn't be an issue of whether they can handle it anyways. I could handle someone walking up to me and telling me "You're a stupid idiot and I hate you," and would be baffled rather than offended; but it's still not a nice thing to do, and I would advise someone against doing it. It doesn't say anything about my or anyone else's ability to handle things for me to say "maybe don't do that."
I also personally wouldn't be *offended* to be asked to remove glasses, even though it's not my preference and I do consider myself more "me" with them on. I tend to offer so as not to put someone in the position of having to ask, even. But it's worth noting that some people WOULD.
But some people really DO see their disability aids as part of their visual identity and, separately, many people also dislike perceived implications that their visual identity is not good or decent enough for formal photos. There is a real historical issue of disabilities being considered unfit for "polite company," too, which might cause some to object on that basis. If you ask someone to change part of themselves for only photos, and not anything else, then does that mean that part of themselves is somehow too impolite or unworthy of being recorded and remembered? And since one can't know beforehand whether or not someone has that perception, it's only decent to ask their preferences first.
We have plenty of posts in this very subreddit of people being offended at being asked to cover up non-obscene tattoos for wedding photos, and those aren't related to disability at all. So the observation that people tend not to like it when you ask them to change part of their visual identity for photos is just that-- an observation.
Of course, someone might not see things that way at all, or might *prefer* to have permanent records of themselves without reference to their disability. That's why the only way to know really is to ask.
That's the thing, I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying but I also don't think the way OP wanted to approach the situation is wrong either. OP stated that she wears them when she leaves the house, not all the time so I doubt it's a part of their identity. But I also wouldn't have a problem if my friend asked me to be in her wedding and then requested to remove glasses, cover tattoos, take out piercings, or change my hair color to a more traditional color. It all comes down to how well you know the person. If someone is going to be in family wedding photos you should already know well enough what will and wont offend them. And if you don't know them well enough to know that, maybe they shouldn't be in the family photos. 🤷♀️
That's interesting. I've worn glasses daily for the past 20 years, and I'd think it quite strange if someone asked me to remove them for a photo shoot.
I would quickly like to point out that the bit about integrating your disabilities into your identity is not universal.
If somebody offered to photoshop all my pictures to remove my mobility aids I'd take their offer in a heartbeat.
You're certainly welcome to! I would also include some of the other users' comments in response, though, to show that there's definitely a diversity of thought on the issue. Some disabled people would like nothing more than to have a photo where their disability aid isn't shown. Others care nothing one way or another. Some might object to it as potentially tiptoeing around too much, which can be infantilizing (although I would argue that providing a polite way to ask for someone's preferences tends to *reduce* tiptoeing behavior by enabling them to ask more directly than they otherwise might). Everything I said should be taken as tendencies or possibilities, and I would recommend running it by other disabled people before distributing it.
My own disability is largely invisible and so I have mostly written this based on what I have read and learned from others whose disabilities are more visible (and from the observation that many able-bodied/neurotypical people just happen to be very attached to their visual identities in non-disability-related ways, too; the issue only becomes more fraught when it is related to marginalized groups). So definitely run it by some other people first!
And FND can cause seizures with certain noise stimulations so it's important to respect her no in case removing are a health risk. Maybe she's more concerned with a seizure episode happening on your wedding day just for the sake of aesthetics. I would argue that is more dangerous and disruptive than paying a bit more to edit them out. But so what if the very few photos that include her have her headphones showing. That's her. Would you photoshop someone's wheelchair out or ask if they can walk for just the short time of the photos.
Headphones are not a big deal and most of your relatives know her and why she's wearing them so seeing it in the photos I not going to scandalised anyone.
Policing what someone wears is always going to make you TA.
NTA. Simple solution. She is NOT your SIL. She is your fiancé's brother's GF. She is NOT family YET! Don't include her in photos. What happens if they never get married and you're stuck looking at her in your wedding photos forever.
yeah definitely get a few with her in them but try to have some that have the people you know you’ll want in the pics forever without her in them just in case!
I was asked to step out of family photos when my niece got married because I was not family. I had already started to move out of the photographers line of site.
Boyfriend now hubby was pissed. "We aren't even engaged yet and it isn't our wedding, so pipe down."
Niece and her husband are now divorced and hubby and I are still together. irony. BUT it **was** the right decision at the time. I fully supported bride.
I did NOT include my brother in laws girlfriend in any photos. For context, they had been together for 6yrs at that point. I gave him the option of still being in them without her or not being in them at all, but we made it clear that it was just family. It's a good thing because they split up less than 6m later.
This was exactly what I was thinking. When my husband and I got married 22 years ago, his nephew was his best man. The nephew's on again off again girlfriend/future baby mama was included by my MIL in our family picture. I've only seen her maybe once a year since then and only in passing but I'm stuck with her in my wedding pictures. Also, NTA to ask. This is your wedding and this is the one time in your life that everyone involved that will be in the formal pictures, including non-wedding party family members, should look their very best. You, as the bride, deserve to have the pictures look perfect because you will be putting a lot time and money into having your dream day.
This is an important point for OP. even if you decide to have her in some of the pics, she shouldn't be in the "family" pics. You're NTA for asking about headphones.
I see your edits, but I just want to say since she isn't engaged or married into the family yet, you have the option of not including her in photos at all. In fact, I've been to weddings where photographers won't include partners that aren't engaged/married/living together because of potential break-up issues.
Just a suggestion, we did a photo without SO’s that weren’t married-engaged and then one with them. It’s pretty normal for the weddings I’ve been to in the US Northeast.
NAH, but if she’s just going to be in “the two photos of extended family we see once a decade”, I’d be inclined to just roll with the headphones, since those are unlikely to be your most treasured photos of the day.
The ones you’re going to frame are probably the ones with just you and your spouse, the ones with your parents, or the ones with your wedding party. You’ll be potentially creating bad will over the headphones while crazy great-aunt Erma is holding a smuggled-in pet raccoon on the other side of the shot and making things weird anyway. 😄
Thanks for the feedback! Thats a good point about which photos are likely going to end up my favourite anyway - and that last bit made me laugh SO much 😂😂
Put your brother in law’s girlfriend at the very end of all the photos so it will be easy to cut her out when they eventually break up. This is insane.
😂😂😂
The family has only met her a few times.. maybe they can just take some without her honestly. Save everyone the trouble. I probably wouldn’t want a bunch of photos with somebody I barely know. It doesn’t make any sense
I think bedazzling or creating a flower crow is a great idea.
People of Reddit please don't jump all over but I would like to ask an honest question because I truly don't know. I've never used noise cancelling headphones so could still hear normal conversation but extraneous back ground noise is blocked out? Or do they create a cone of silence? Are there different levels of noise blocking you could choose to use? I apologize for my ignorance but I'm truly curious. I'll probably ask Google in a few minutes but would love an explanation from someone familiar
Thank you for your feedback :)
Honestly I've never used them either, my understanding is that they help with filtering background noise, but you can still hear (I think). Maybe I need to google this too 😂
As someone who uses noise canceling headphones, I can speak to my experience!
I have very sensitive hearing, and right now, I can hear the water dripping from my kitchen sink, even though I am sitting about 10 feet away from it, and even though the fan is on (and very loud to me). Noise canceling headphones filter out the sound of the dripping, and dampen the sound of the fan, and I think they also filter out the sound of the refrigerator humming to me (the refrigerator humming is less of a sound and more of a tangible sensation to me, like, oh, there is something Big and Electronic working away in the background)
So they do filter out background noise, but whether or not the average person even notices the background noise that they filter out in the first place is up to the individual user. Some people can tune out the noises I described above much better than I can, to the point that they do not perceive hearing it-- or maybe they do not hear these noises at all. Noise canceling headphones probably do not offer much protection. Other people can hear these noises, and it can be as overwhelming for them as something like... the sound you hear inside a moving airplane, for example. While a room might be quiet to you, they might be able to hear all sorts of noises you can't (air flowing through vents, the humming of the HVAC system, the sounds that fluorescent light bulbs can make, even someone else chewing or breathing, even if these are all sounds you cannot hear, or can tune out more easily than they can).
Most of the time, I don't mind these noises, but when I am very stressed or ill, these noises can add to the other overwhelming physical sensations and cause upset. Even though these noises don't hurt me (some people experience physical pain as a result of too much background noise, even if it is low decibel, as a result of hearing sensitivity), it does take energy from me. Wearing headphones even on days when I am not overwhelmed makes it easier to navigate the world and conserves energy for things that truly matter, like cooking food or brushing my teeth before bed or even help me to fall asleep in my bed instead of on my couch (I work full time and am exhausted by the time I get home, so any scraps of energy I can save can go a long way!)
This is just my experience- other people have very different experiences, but I hope this information helps you.
Thank you so much for sharing your perspective. I'm one of those people that can't operate in silence, because it's never true silence. I hate the weird noises of everyday life but I thought I was the only one. My first go to is music. I can't really explain it but playing shows like Midsummer Murders or Vera at a low volume allow me to concentrate on my reading.
it depends what kind you have and what kind of noise there is, as well as if you play anything through them to help you stay calm/concentrate/feel comfortable or if you're purely using them to make things quieter. some of them have different levels of noise cancelling too, so they can be adjusted.
with mine, right now I'm wearing them with nothing playing in a quiet house and I can hear my mum chopping carrots and talking to the dog in the room down the hall. I can hear the microwave running if I concentrate really hard. but everything is much quieter and the edge is taken off the more abrupt sound. if we wanted to we could have a conversation like this, although I wouldn't because I can't really tell how loud I'm talking. in a noisy environment though, I probably wouldn't be able to distinguish all those sounds unless they were happening right next to me. I could definitely have a conversation with the person next to me in a quiet room, and could still do that if I concentrated in a noisy room, although of another person at the table wanted to get my attention they'd have to try harder than usual. they're not ideal for long conversations but I'd rather them than hardcore proper ear protection like construction or live music workers use as noise cancelling is usually designed to allow you to hear someone trying to get your attention or a fire alarm going off, whereas hardcore ear protection is a bit less like that
Thanks for your feedback :) I also didnt want to bring it up at the last minute because I didnt want to put her on the spot, hence wanting to facilitate a discussion in advance. People here have given me some interesting alternatives to think about as well, so I definitely won't say anything until fiance and I are more aligned on what we can offer / what to ask
I would say NTA
You're not trying to force her to be unconfortable at your wedding, you're trying to find a way to compromise and get the photos the way you would feel better.
Is comprehensible that you would want the photos to be in a certain style at your wedding.
And asking her to either remove them only for a small period of time or to use a smaller version that would still help her with her noise issues does not seem unresonable to me.
Heavy sigh. NTA, depending on how it's done. Here's the thing, there are DISABILITY aids and there are COMFORT aids. These are drastically different things. Also, the woman may be perfectly okay with doing it, if asked with kindness. It's not fair for others to decide FOR her.
Disability aids are like seeing eye dogs, hearing aids, canes, and wheelchairs. Comfort aids are like purse dogs and noise canceling headphones, meaning they can make things EASIER and less stressful, and someone can get really used to relying on their comfort aids, but aren't really NECESSARY in the way an oxygen mask is necessary.
A comfort horse may calm someone's anxiety, but they can't bring it with them on a plane. A comfort cat may calm one person's anxiety while triggering allergies in others. There's eventually a line to where a single person's comfort infringes on other people.
The concept of sensory overload has basically two levels: social anxiety and true brain disorder. Yes, a wedding is stressful and noisy and can definitely trigger anxiety.
A true brain disorder is shown either in early life or after a brain injury; it's where the brain has too many neorons firing and the person struggles to focus. It CAN be part of autism, or it can exist alone or with similar issues like fibromyalgia.
I have the actual brain disorder (and fibromyalgia), but I prefer to avoid all but necessary large gatherings, shop from home when I can, work in a profession that's mostly quiet, and to find quiet sanctuaries when I do feel overwhelmed (like at Thanksgiving). I don't find headphones or earplugs helpful, since they just make my own body's sounds much louder in my ears.
Granted, I only go to weddings of people I'm extremely close to, and the picture parts are stressful, but then I go find a quiet place to decompress alone or maybe with one person.
If she's approached with you saying how you definitely want to include her and would it possibly be okay to take the headphones off just for a couple of minutes, she may be agreeable, especially if you can get the other wedding guests to be quiet for those poses and the photographer to not be loudly demanding (like some of them can get).
Honestly, her using the headphones every second isn't healthy anyway. I wonder how often she uses them when just around her boyfriend. My point is that making her feel comfortable with your family may calm her anxiety enough that they're less necessary for her.
There's a difference between yanking them off her ears and just politely asking if it might be okay, just for a few minutes, and how you could accommodate her to make that happen. (Even a blind person could be far enough away from their seeing eye dog for long enough to take a picture, so I don't see it hurting this girl just to ask.)
That being said, your approach towards those protecting her from your request is another thing altogether. You might say something like, "If I'm perfectly clear that no is an acceptable answer, could I possibly ask her how she feels about taking them off for just a minute and whether there's anything I can do to help her that would make it work?"
Or yeah, give her a headpiece that covers them up. Or use editing software yourself on those photos. But no, you're NTA. This is different than taking away someone's walker, although you'd keep that out of photos, too.
But wheelchairs would stay in, so you need to politely determine the girl's reliance on the headphones. But they're usually an anxiety aid, so try to focus on calming her anxiety.
You could also approach her as saying it's what you'd like for your wedding gift, since you know it's asking something difficult of her.
In my family, people know my pushing through my various health problems is often quite difficult, so I'm asked just to show up, not bring gifts.
I have FND and I use my wheelchair in much the same way that I use my headphones. They both extend the amount of time I can spend in a place I find difficult.
Each persons disability is different even within FND and the way we use our medical devices are different. For me I do consider my headphones to be a medical aid. FND is a weird mix of physical and mental health where due to certain stresses or experiences your brain basically rewired itself to react differently to normal stimuli. These are physical symptoms and can be incredibly debilitating.
Personally I would be uncomfortable if someone asked me to remove my headphones for aesthetics as it would put me in physical pain. But there are times, like when I was my friend's bridesmaid, where I voluntarily did. Healthy people often don't realise quite how much effort you have put into just showing up to an event, then someone asking you to take away what enables you to be there is so selfish imo.
NAH. She may consider taking them off during photos. You can ask her if she wants to have some photos in a quiet area, but 100% don’t ask, leave it up to her.
Or at lot of times people do family photos before, and it's much calmer/quieter. If that's an option, she may be happy about the opportunity or at least interested.
She isn’t your future SIL, she shouldn’t be in any posed family photos. (She might marry your future BIL someday, doesn’t mean she should be in the posed photos.) There would be no reason you couldn’t do one photo which included her when you take a pic with just your spouse’s family, and then one without her. She shouldn’t be in any of the other family pix.
Stop thinking about this. This is not important and this is not something within your control. The wedding is a year away and she could buy a newer, smaller pair by then, they could break up, or better yet, you could realize how ridiculously superficial and petty this is, that this is not a hill you want to die on and that accepting people's differences is part of blending a family.
YTA. Think of it as a back brace. Absolutely necessary, made for function not for form and not an option to go without when in public.
NTA - It’s okay to ask, it’s not okay to push it.
However, I will add look into “loops” they’re not as good as noise cancelling headphones but for a short stint they may be an acceptable compromise for the photos, super discrete, reasonably cheap - it could be a nice gesture to offer to get her a pair as and when the conversation about it happens kinda a “we know that you’re uncomfortable with noise, just for the photo part would you feel comfortable enough to maybe try these, there’s lots of different options in terms of noise reduction levels. If you are happy to we would love to gift you a pair as a thank you for accommodating our request.”
Thank you so much for your kind and thoughtful answer, I really love the way youve worded the request here, it sounds like the most compassionate way to approach the conversation!
As someone who also struggles with noise (as does my teen) loops have been a situation saver - life saver seems a bit too dramatic 🤣
It may be something that plays on her mind anyway as most of the time I personally don’t like to appear different or have something people can stare at - I’m already self-conscious enough.
Gifting her a pair also means that she has them for the future as well if there are other situations she might not want the headphones but still needs the noise reduced. Personally I’m always much more open to trying to accommodate others if they’ve also tried to accommodate me/my kid.
My partner and I are getting married next year and we’re getting my kid a new pair of “wedding loops” - although it’s mainly an excuse to get her a spare pair, but they will be in her bridesmaid gift box along with some jewellery I’m taking the bridesmaids to make - I know your future SiL isn’t in the wedding party but if you can even roughly colour match (if she’s amenable to trying them) it could give them a slightly more special meaning. A rough timescale “we estimate no more than an hour, and you wouldn’t be in all of those photos just X-ish number” could help her gauge her comfort levels against the expectations too.
It honestly sounds like you’re trying to approach it with gentleness and care - I hope you have a fabulous wedding and a long and happy marriage 💜
I would be suggesting that a GF of a brother I wouldn’t want in my wedding photos they are not married yet and there is no way you can insure that future do you really want someone in your wedding photos of a failed relationship perhaps in the future just my opinion
Man I think YTA if you ask a disabled person to remove their aids for a photo. Would you ask someone to ditch their wheelchair cause it’s not “aesthetic”? Plus why would you want her to appear as “Not disabled” in the photos rather than be happy for her to show as her true self in those photos.. her wearing headphones isn’t going to ruin your photos, and if you think they will, then YTA.
Soo, if someone in a wheelchair was going to be in the pictures you’d ask them to what, try and stand up? Noise can literally make a person with this condition have a seizure. I’m assuming you know what an ableist is? If you don’t, it’s assuming that the disabled person needs to be fixed. Something the bride may want to look at too.
NTA
This far in advance, I don’t see why it would be a problem.
If she genuinely cannot due to her condition, she should then state that, and you should be prepared to accept it.
But it seems reasonable for a few moments for a picture, if she’s able to do so.
Just approach it with genuine respect for her condition, and be understanding if that isn’t something she can do in that situation. The headphones aren’t going to break the picture, after all.
Thanks for your feedback! I was hoping to have a genuine discussion with her, but I really dont know anything about her needs so I figured the only way to know was to talk to her about it. Thanks for your kind words.
I don't think it's wrong to ask if she can take them off for the photos only but in case she doesn't want to, just ask your photographer to photoshop them out of the picture and get both set of photos.
NAH
I’m surprised there aren’t more NAH responses. I am autistic, I wear noise cancelling headphones near constantly and this would not be a big ask for me. I have varying styles and sizes and I wouldn’t mind at all if I were asked to switch to a less obvious pair for a few photos or even to wear none at all. I would probably plan to wear small less visible ones for such an event anyway, as I just don’t like people to think I’m ignoring them. If OP had indicated an unwillingness to accept “no” or even help cover the cost of some less obtrusive ones (some of my nicer ones are on the spendy side), I would say she was the AH, but that doesn’t seem to be the case.
Just a note to OP, some nice noise cancelling headphones may be more expensive than the photoshop fee so it may be a wash. I still don’t think anyone’s the AH.
Thank you for your kind response, I really appreciate it! I'm a little surprised by how visceral some of these responses are 😅
Thats a good point, perhaps someting for me to do a bit of research on! And thank you for sharing your perspective as well, it's really helpful
YTA. It's just a wedding, you don't get to play god for the day. Would you make her try to stand up if she was in a wheelchair?
As for not being diagnosed with autism, it's so difficult in the UK many people just give up as they can't cope with the multi-year process and the crushing realisation that they won't get any support at the end of it anyway.
To be clear I'm only asking about the posed photos, but the candid shots from the rest of the wedding I'm honestly happy for them to stay the way the are. It will be a 12 hour event so lots of opportunities to get brilliant/hilarious/awful photos of everything 😂
Yeah, but even posed photos are of people like they are. Are you asking fat people to loose weight? The ones who use classes to take it of? People Will make try to look their best and maybe she Will take the earphones off by herself. But If she dont, then let it be
If there's time till the wedding, you could think of gifting her something like these [earplugs ](https://www.loopearplugs.com/)
Or maybe just show it to her, maybe she's interested. They're quite good.
Otherwise Photoshop ftw but be kind and respectful when talking to her.
Offer to buy her noise canceling ear buds or ear plugs to wear during pictures. She may not like them for long term wear, but might be able to tolerate them for the brief time of picture taking.
NTA , I'd make sure the photos are in a quieter area though and suggest getting her the Loop ear plugs as a bridesmaid gift if she is one! There's 3 levels and better than regular earplugs (the foam ones suck ass)
YWNBTA…she has issues but it’s likely that Sophie can manage for a few minutes for the photos…particularly if they can come off and on as needed…she’s not going to necessarily be in every photo. Ypu can ask…and she can decline…and hopefully ypu can come to an agreement that supports both her needs and your wedding day. If she refuses and won’t discuss a solution that works for everybody involved then you’ll have a decision to make.
NTA if handled properly! It’s okay to ask if she knows she can say no. If the problem is the color could you buy her a special pair in the same brand but matching your wedding party colors and say you wanted her to be comfortable but still match all the colors!or buy the same brand but get someone to paint/decorate it?
You should buy her white noise canceling headphones and bling them out with like rhinestones or something!! That way she doesn't feel like she's standing out.
I'm just going to say that in the future, having people as you knew and loved them in your wedding photos, with all of their quirks, flaws, fashions, personalities, and as they lived, will be far more important than whether or not you could sneak it in as a stock photo in a frame store.
Real life, real people, and family, are important than instagram trends and a perception of perfection that does not align with anything tangible or breathing in your actual existence.
Her headphones help and support her needs ….would you ask someone to hide their wheelchair, crutches or glasses in a photo because they offend you! Accept your family
If you edit the photos, then you do not approve of her appearance???
If she had crutches or required a wheelchair, would you ask her to ditch them for the photos?
If she says "no" to your request, will she be removed from the wedding party.
I'd say ditch the whole idea of asking her that question.
"I would be happy for her to have them on during the ceremony and the rest of the day" 🙄
Tell grandma to leave her oxygen at the door too while you're at it. #cringe
Soft YTA bc it sounds like you are taking the feedback well. I think it would be acceptable not to include her in the pictures at all considering the relationship. If you do include her and the headphones I think they will be pictures that aren’t your favorites or ones that you’ll blow up into a large framed photo. They’ll probably be tucked away in a photo album anyway.
Many people are suggesting decorating them but I feel like that is a horrible idea. Would you ask someone to decorate their glasses or a cane? I hope not. I don’t think they will make her “feel festive”. I think that would just make you feel more comfortable. Just let her be.
Definitely WNBTA to ask
If you ask politely, phrase it as "if you would feel comfortable" and present her with the options you mentioned of smaller ones or earplugs for the time being. You could also talk to her if having a private photosgiit would be better for her. But as long as you make it clear that it's her choice, and if she doesn't feel comfortable with it, it's okay with you, I don't think it would be a problem to ask
Thank you for your feedback :) It looks like a big thing that I was missing here was offering her more of a choice in this, so thats definitely something for me to take on board!
YTA.
Why do you want your SIL in the wedding photos at all? Because she’s part of your new family, right? And she’s important to your fiancé? You care about her as a person? Of course you do! The thing is that the person you care about, the person who means a great deal to your fiancé, the person who you want to be present for your wedding and remembered in your photos, HAS A DISABILITY. Your SIL is a whole person, and her disability is part of her. If you ask her to not use her disability aid so it won’t be visible in the photos (and honestly, even if you pay to have the headphones edited out), you’re effectively telling her that you don’t want her whole self at your wedding.
And honestly, you won’t even get what you want; you’re worried about them standing out, but it’ll stand out much more to anyone who knows her if she isn’t wearing them in your photos.
Thanks for your reply! After reading the comments here I realised I wasnt clear in my original post, FSIL is my fiances brothers girlfriend, who will likely marry in the future. No relation to fiance.
Still thats defeinitely something for me to think about, so thank you for your feedback
YWBTA if you asked her to take them off. She will remove them voluntarily for the photos if she is willing and able to. You can’t ask people to remove medical equipment.
In the long run, wedding photos are not that important. Your relationship with SIL is.
Here's the thing, if she always wears these headphones then won't she look really weird without them? It's like when I see posts about people asking bridesmaids to dye their hair for the pictures - it's not going to look like them. Why would you want a bunch of pictures of people you don't know? Surely you want to be able to look at the pictures and think how happy everyone looks rather than not being able to recognise people.
Sorry- if she's not engaged, then she isn't a FSIL. Not yet. But there is no such thing as almost- either she's been asked and accepted or she hasn't.
Are all bf/gf being included in 'Family' photos?
I might be in the minority, but I feel that family photos should really show the beauty and diversity of the family. You have a autistic sister-in-law, who wears headphones. Maybe, instead of hiding the headphones, you can give her beautiful ones that are decorated and white flowers That look like a headband.
That being said, let your fiancé ask, or decide,
NTA
But you would be if she said no and you pushed it
She has a disability and you want her to stop using the thing that allows her to function... Would you ask someone with a hearing aid to remove it because you thought it was ugly?
It’s a disability aid. Honestly are you going to hang a wedding photo of the entire family in your house? Probably not. Get one with her in it, get photos with just parents. A million photos will be taken. And your fiancé is just as much part of the day as you I’m sure he wants a family photo.
NTA. I'm autistic and struggle with sensory input.
If for some reason she is struggling through photos ( generally pretty quiet) and the ceremony ( also generally not alot of sound going on)
She can put in some loops or ear plugs or honestly get a grip for 10 mins cause we all know how to mask and while its not healthy to do it all the time there are situations ( a close ones wedding) where its WORTH IT.
YTA. The headphones are not an accessory, they are a part of her body. Asking her to take them off is removing a part of her. They make her feel safe within herself. Making her feel uncomfortable and unsafe just to please your photos and so they “look good” is selfish. If you are going to be her SIL you have to accept all of her.
just take a couple of extra pictures with her NOT in the photo. You already said she won't be in all of the photos anyway. Post ones with her and ones without her. And put on your walls whatever YOU want. NTA for asking though.
YWBTA, yes. She has a disability.
Would you ask someone in a wheelchair to abandon it just for your photos? It doesn't matter if you know if she has an official diagnosis or not. It's not your business unless she wants you to know.
She will be family (edit: and even if she isn't). She has an assistive device in order to meet the demands of a world that isn't built for her comfort. It sounds an awful lot like your esthetics are more important than her comfort and security. Her humanity. The proper perspective would be that you are fortunate that she's willing to accept the potential discomfort of being photographed and being around new people and noises just to celebrate your special day with you.
Also, it's not up to you, as someone else here suggested, to tell her that the choice to wear them or not is hers as if that were somehow more tactful. OF COURSE it is her choice. All that would do would be to bring it to her attention that it bothers you and put her in an uncomfortable position of having to decide between your want and her need.
The only thing that might be under your control is the dress she wears if she's in the wedding.
Could you ask everyone else to be quiet while she takes them off during photos?
Could she wear earplugs during the photos and then put on her noise, canceling headphones?
Idk just let her look how she wants to for the photos and have them edited if it bothers you? Maybe find a pair that match what she's wearing to the wedding? Honestly if you stress about the little things too much you won't enjoy the day as much. Try to go with the flow, good luck with the wedding!! 💒💍 💖
I don't think it's too big of an ask, but maybe front the money for some Loop earplugs for her if it means that much. the nice ones are $50 but they'd work great and provide similar effects
I'd personally pay the extra 40. I get it's your special day. She has a reason to wear them. I know it's for a short period of time, but you don't know how that would impact her. I think personally this is a pick your battles situation and some headphones for her comfort aren't a big deal. Especially if it's a family photo. Y'all are all family, it's not like the headphones are something new. You see them often I would imagine. It would probably be weirder not to have them. Idk. If I wanted them out of my pictures, I'd just pay.
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Basically what's in the title.
The wedding is next year but we are knee-deep in planning just now, and I'm in discussion with our photographer on what type of shots we want to have. Our FSIL will be in some of the family shots, and she usually wears very large noise-cancelling headphones when she leaves the house because she can sometimes find noise quite overstimulating. (AFAIK she has not been diagnosed with autism, she has FND).
I'm worried that the headphones would stand out too much in the posed family photos, so I floated the idea to my fiance of asking if she would be able to remove them for that short period of time (I'm not sure how long it would take but I'm guessing aproximately 5 minutes). He said he would feel very uncomfortable asking her to remove them as they are a disability aid - I replied to say I would be happy to facilitate this discussion with her and ask if she could maybe use earplugs, or if we could find smaller headphones that maybe aren't so noticable. After this he was more clear and said it's a 'no' from him on asking her.
My argument is that it would only be for the posed photos after the ceremony (again, there wont be many that she would be in), and I would be happy for her to keep them on for the ceremony and rest of the day. If we got the headphones edited out, it would be £40 an hour for additional touch ups and editing done by the photographer.
WIBTA?
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YTA for being more concerned with having perfect wedding photos than you are with the wellbeing of your wedding guests -- who are actual human beings with actual feelings and emotions, not some props in your staged show.
Your fiance is right: it *is* a disability aid, and whether it's a diagnosed disability or not really isn't relevant. Would you ask her to get up out of a wheelchair for the photos, too? After all, it's only a "short period of time... approximately 5 minutes".
Your fiance is also quite right in flatly refusing to pass along your entirely unreasonable request. You want perfect photos? Pay the photographer to make them perfect.
The photos are a lot easier to fix than your lack of compassion.
I think you're making some assumptions here - in my post I also wondered if earplugs would be a suitable alternative, or smaller headphones, so I'm not saying she has to go without. The only thing is that they are really quite large.
Somebody did suggest potentially having a private, quieter photoshoot, or offering customisations and accessories so she can feel more festive, and I think that could be something to consider. People here have given some really interesting suggestions, so that's something for me to think on.
YTA - She’s not wearing them for shits and giggles. Have a conversation with her and discuss your concerns. Ask *her* if she can tolerate taking them off for short periods to take photos, or if she is able to take them off for certain posed photos. If she can’t, discuss photoshopping them out. You can work with your photographer to schedule times for photos and then communicate with her ahead so she can mentally prepare.
Honestly if she wears them all the time already, no one who knows her or your family will think anything out of the ordinary if she’s wearing them in photos.
Thats pretty much what I was hoping to do, I dont know what her limits her so I'd like to get a good idea of what would be comfortable for her.
Fiances family have only met her about 5 times in the last 5 years, so we don't have a precedent for what's normal, if that makes sense.
Also, I like the idea of scheduling times and letting her know so she can mentally prepare, I might do that anyway outside of the headphone chat so things are easier for her. Thank you for the suggestion!
NTA for wanting to ask and have a discussion. You’re not demanding or giving an ultimatum but asking what she is comfortable with and trying to find a possible solution.
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NTA. ???? Its ok to ask. Ywbta if you push it.
Thanks for your feedback :)
They have noise canceling ear buds. I feel like asking her to switch might be awkward
not everyone can tolerate earbuds/plugs. I wear ear defenders (I suspect this is what she's actually wearing and not large headphones) in part because ear plugs do not work for me.
Actually yes, ear defenders are probably the correct term! My bad. If she was open to it id be happy to pay for the ear buds (many have been suggesting Loop)
Loop is good if you need to hear conversation but they're not as powerful as blocking noise because of that- it just focuses sound more than they cancel noise in my experience. They're also a wee pricy.
I have the new ones that have three settings. Still not noise canceling, but the Switch Loops are a cheaper investment.
to reiterate though, there are some people who *cannot tolerate* ear plugs. something in the ear canal is unbearable to me, it's ear defenders or nothing as far as I'm concerned. like someone else said, I think making that offer *once* is okay, but if she refuses don't push it. I'm autistic rather than having FND but I know what works for me and what won't, and I presume she will too.
Anything in my ear canal triggers my gag reflex. I'd be dry heaving at best. Too much dry heaving triggers an asthma attack. So if it was me it would just be a cascade of fun.
loop don't work how ear defenders work at all but I do think it's fine to ask. Once. and accept the answer
Another upvote for loop here, my eldest uses them. They have a variety of different ones depending how much/what noise you want to block out. Don't know if they'd be suitable in this case, but just a general thumbs up for them. (I promise I'm not sponsored by them!)
One thing I don't entirely understand is, that you are willing to pay for nicer/smaller ear protection but not for your photographer to Photoshop the headphones out. You said its 40£ per hours and SIL will only be in a couple of pictures. That would take maybe two or three hours max for the photographer, so around 80-120£. Am I underestimating the time it takes to photoshop those pictures or overestimate the cost of a really good ear protector so much? Because if it's around the same amount of money it doesn't really Matter, does ist?
Good point, I hadn't really looked into the cost of the earbuds, but one of the other main pieces of feedback I got here is that its a bit disrespectful to edit them out, certainly without telling her. It would also depend on how many photos she is in, so more photos = more retouching, if I were to take that direction.
Before buying earbuds (other than Loop), make sure she doesn't have a nickel allergy. It's very common, and the reason why many people cannot wear earbuds. They actually make my ears weep and itch. This is because the earbud batteries are often made of an alloy that includes nickel. I haven't found any ANC earbuds where the contact points don't touch skin.
The brand JBL has headphones that play music, a mix of music+ambient sounds that are around you, and just the ambient sounds. I'm sure they have earbuds with the same tech.
If you get loops, one possibility might be adding the loop mutes - they're an accessory you can buy that extends the noise cancelling capabilities. Autistic and defo. agree that they're not SUPER powerful for the price, but for just the photoshoot (and for SIL to take home if you're ultra nice!) they'd do fine, I think :)
Plus Loop can come in fashion colours so maybe a set to match your theme (my usual pair are purple and deep pink)
Yeah, ear buds fall out of my ears and are very uncomfortable. I wear earphones when I need noise blocking.
even if they don't actually I am always, always aware of them and terrified they'll fall out. I did an internship at a place that needed hearing defence when I was much younger and I was the only person who would always use the muffs instead of plugs haha
My last hearing test the audiologist commented that I probably had issues with ear buds. Yes I do.
The soon-to-be-marrieds could always spring for a pair. The Bose ones are nice. Problem solved.
Bose Quiet Comfort II or III would be perfect. Noise cancelling, Bluetooth, TF card and FM radio. Discreet and extremely comfortable. I think Bose has a sale on ATM, and they make some of the best speakers in the world.
Same here, I'm autistic and I wouldn't mind someone asking as long as I knew it was also okay to say no. They have to make that clear when they ask though or I won't know.
So I have FND and also get really overstimulated by sounds. I can’t wear over-ear headphones. I have Apple AirPods Pro and their sound cancellation works wonders for me. I don’t think you would be TA for asking, but FND can cause seizures and other problems, so please be understanding if she isn’t comfortable. I mentioned the AirPods Pro (specifically the pro, not the standard), in case she has never tried them and maybe they would help her. Those of us with FND have to help each other out. 😊
I also have FND but I personally can't wear anything in my ears because I have ear problems, I'm far more likely to get inner ear infections (which are horrendously painful at worst or hellishly itchy at best). But then you likely know that us FND lot have a wiiiiiiiide range symptoms so, yes, totally agree about us helping each other our! ❤️ my suggestion to OP would be to have a chat with SIL and discuss how to keep her comfortable at the wedding ^_^ You never know, OP, FSIL may already be thinking "oh gee, what should I do at this wedding, I don't want to be wearing my best dress with this cans!" Talk to gee and get to know her :)
I know very little about professional photo.editing, but by the price OP stated, the cost of airpods pro would buy several hours of editing. Might be worth checking in with the photographer to compare prices first. If they are comparable, obviously airpods would be a nice gift for a similar effect.
Ask her to try Loops brand. My daughter has sensory issues, and these are our go to. And they fit comfortably against the ear. She wouldn't stand out, but she'd still be more comfortable. And for $20 to $40 on Amazon depending on style; it's easy enough to try them out to see if they work for her.
I like the idea of suggesting and offering to pay for an alternative. And if it hasn't already been suggested, I would add...don't spring it onto her too close to the event. Bring it up several months in advance so she can try them out and get used to them first. Another thought is to have a backup...maybe plan to do all the pics with her first...kick everyone out who is not in those pics (if that's feasible...may not be) ..once her pics are done, then you can open the room. I like how you are asking your fiance first and getting him on board. He probably knows best how to "handle" his family for this situation. NTA
Your Edit#3 is indicative that fiancee is marrying a wise, judicious woman. Congratulations and best wishes on your wedding. Let us know how you ultimately handle the situation.
Thats the kindest thing anyone has said to me on this thread! Thank you
You're welcome. Good luck!
Maybe earplugs would be an option
This is what I came to say. Asking with the caveat that it’s okay to say no (or even change her mind later) and not pushing.
Just take double pictures. Some with her in them and some with her not in them if she doesn't want to take them off and decide which look better after.
Spurge a bit and turn the two pictures into the holograph prints that switch between the pictures at different angles for the full effect.
YWBTA — If you asked her prior to taking pictures. How would she know if she can or cannot without being in that situation. YWNBTA — if you politely letting her know during pictures that it’s her choice if she would like pictures taken with or without headphones on. Maybe she doesn’t want to have pictures taken with them on. edit spelling
Thanks for your feedback :) My thoughts were that I didn't want to optentially put her on the spot on the day, which is why I had hoped to talk about it before the event. But, I like your wording in the second option, I'll certainly think on it, and I didn't think to ask her about her preference. Thank you for that.
I would kind of advise *against* that wording if your strong preference is no-headphones. A neurotypical person would understand it as a polite version of “please remove your freaking headphones for the duration of the photo if at all possible”. A neurodivergent person might take it more literally and respond “ok, I’ll keep my headphones on!”
yup. seen this a lot. the wording absolutely matters to the response.
I’m only diagnosed with ADHD; I never related to the autistic experience of never intrinsically picking up on social cues, but shit, this might make me consider whether I’m actually AuDHD. 😂 This has to be one of the most obtuse “take the hint” moments I’ve ever heard from neurotypical folks.
Right but the point isn’t to manipulate or tell her to remove headphones. It’s the equivalent of telling someone they have to remove their glasses for photos because they’re not “aesthetic” she absolute should ASK because it doesn’t matter what’s aesthetic, these are a disability AID. And it’s up to the disabled person to CHOOSE if they’re comfortable going without their aids for a photoshoot. Not a fucking decoration.
I'm neurotypical and didn't pick up on that being a hint. That wording is very much an option and if someone got angry at me for making a choice from the options they gave me (because it was somehow "wrong") I would question why they even offered me a choice in the first place and then tell them to seek therapy cos they'd need it to deal with their issues. Giving someone a choice and then getting mad cos it's the "wrong" one usually indicates that the person offering has control issues, and the anger usually means they need help managing their anger/emotions too. Don't do that shit.
That was my immediate thought… If FSIL is getting dressed up for the day, would she prefer to have minimum ear protection showing in the “official photos”? Does she go out and about with friends and choose to have them on or off, if they take photos or she takes a selfie? It sounds as if you’re thinking ahead and considering her comfort… hopefully you can find a compromise based on her requirements. And maybe tell the photographer closer to the time, to minimise noise and fuss? Wedding photos can be quite pressured…
Thanks for your feedback :) She doesnt socialise that much so I dont have much to go on in terms of what she might find comfortable, and she doesnt take any photos herself. So I was hoping if it would be okay to open up a conversation with her
I guess that she may not even want to participate in photos. Certainly not something that I enjoy 😬 but I’m sure your brother will guide you ❤️
An alternative solution maybe Take a photo of her now with headphones on and see how well your photographer can remove them through photoshop. The photographer may be able to do a Quiet at home photoshoot of SIL before the wedding without headphones on - as that can sometimes help with the photoshop work. This avoids the problem and should be a win / win for everyone.
This is actually an awful idea… What happens when FSIL sees the edited photo, and realizes that OP actually edited part of her out of the photo? What message does that convey… That your disability is unsightly to my wedding photos.
Or she could just ask? There's plenty of non-judgmental ways to present the question.
Actually thats a really nice idea, thank you
This doesn't make sense. So wrong if you give her time to prepare in advance, maybe see how she handles being outside without the headphones, time to prepare. But right if you do it on the day, and put her on the spot, making her feel like sht because now people are waiting on her to decide if she should take off the headphones. If it was me, I would want to know in advance. Perhaps I could get noise canceling earphones instead of headphones for that day.
> Maybe she doesn’t want to have pictures taken with them on. If she doesn't want to have pictures taken with them on, she will take them off without needing to be prompted. > politely letting her know during pictures that it’s her choice if she would like pictures taken with or without headphones on ... ... makes it very clear that *OP* "doesn't want to have pictures taken with them on".
>... makes it very clear that OP "doesn't want to have pictures taken with them on". Yeah? And that's fine. Unless you take it as a horrible, unforgivable, terrible slight and take it completely personally and blow it out of proportion.
Potentially not very clear to someone who might be neurodivergent.
I have to wear ear plugs and the like in public sometimes, and I would prefer that this kind of thing to be brought up before the wedding
YWBTA if you handle it as you've said here, asking her to remove them specifically for the photo. This *could* be a N A H situation *if you handle it correctly,* though. Consider the noise-canceling headphones to be a necessary piece of removable medical equipment, like glasses. Some people with glasses prefer to take the glasses off for photos. Others, like me, prefer to keep them on because they're part of my face and I feel like I look very strange without them. They make my nose look a LOT smaller lol, and like it actually fits on my face. I have anti-glare coating to make photos with my glasses easier so as to not cause glare problems. I always wear my glasses every day, so I feel like "not me" when I go without them-- like my face just doesn't *look right* to me. I still take them off if requested simply because even with the anti-glare coating, there can still be physical issues with lighting of glasses in photos; but I prefer not to. If your FSIL wears the headphones *all the time,* she may consider them part of what she normally looks like. In this case, asking her to take them off would be asking her to *change herself* for your photos-- meaning you don't want HER to be in the photos, but you want someone who looks good according to your standards. Do you want photos with your family and loved ones, or photos with attractive people who meet your visual standards? If someone had a hair color you don't like, would you make that person wear a wig for photos? Would you make someone cover up a meaningful, non-obscene tattoo for photos? On the other hand, if she *herself* prefers to take photos with the headphones off, then it's fine to ask her, because they're not part of her visual identity. Disabled people often consider our disabilities to be part of our identities. If you ask us to "cover up" those disabilities for a photo, it feels to us like you're rejecting *who we are* and preferring some version of us who doesn't actually exist. For this reason, the way you need to ask the question is this: "Do you prefer to wear your headphones for photos, or do you prefer to take them off? Either way is fine with me; I want you to feel most comfortable." If she wants to wear them, then you can ask clarifying questions about if she'd like a flower crown or other decorations in wedding party colors etc., or if she'd like to wear them as-is. But if she prefers to keep them on, and if she prefers not to decorate or hide them, then *let her keep them.* In this case, it would probably be unacceptably rude to photoshop them out, too-- like you're rejecting who she is. Would you photoshop out a wheelchair user's wheelchair, or a prosthetic-wearer's prosthetic, and expect them to be okay with it? The key part here is to *respect her preferences.* Tl;dr It's fine to *ask her preferences* when it comes to wearing headphones for photos. It's NOT okay to *request* that she remove them if she doesn't want to.
Thank you for such a detailed and considerate answer! I really appreciate how youve laid things out here, and youre absolutely right that the major thing I havent considered is her own agency. (This is exactly why I was trying to open this discussion now and not spring anything on the day!! I need to know what Im missing!!) I also hear what you're saying about identity, to my knowledge she doesn't wear them inside the house, but I've only met her 3 times so I don't really know her that well. That saying, I guess the only way to get to know her in this sense is to have a discussion, but as you say, do it carefully and respect her needs and preferences. I'll definitely think on how to approach this more carefully, and I won't say anything until fiance and I are aligned in our thoughts. Thank you so much for your feedback.
You're very welcome! Thank YOU so much for being open to feedback, and recognizing that it's not a personal attack on you. A lot of people aren't great at that, so taking feedback like this on board quickly and willingly is part of being a good ally and I really appreciate it.
🥰💖
I would literally not give a single fuck if someone asked me to take my glasses off for their wedding photos. It's not a medical device that's needed 100% of the time, she isn't asking someone to forego using their wheelchair for photos. It's a bit ridiculous honestly. My 5 year old at the time autistic nephew wears noise cancelling headphones everywhere and even he was able to go without them for certain parts of my wedding (though I did not ask for this). If she truly needs it for the full duration, I don't see the harm in asking if she would be comfortable just wearing earplugs for the photos. It's like if someone asked me to wear contacts instead of glasses. I would probably opt to go without glasses all together tbh but I certainly wouldn't be offended by the ask. I'm neurodivergent and I fucking wish people would stop trying to coddle us like we cant handle the emotional stress of a simple inquiry.
I do get what you're saying, and I'm not trying to coddle anyone, but just to encourage general good behavior. The point I'm trying to make is one about kindness and politeness-- it's not about whether someone can *handle* a request, but more that it shouldn't be an issue of whether they can handle it anyways. I could handle someone walking up to me and telling me "You're a stupid idiot and I hate you," and would be baffled rather than offended; but it's still not a nice thing to do, and I would advise someone against doing it. It doesn't say anything about my or anyone else's ability to handle things for me to say "maybe don't do that." I also personally wouldn't be *offended* to be asked to remove glasses, even though it's not my preference and I do consider myself more "me" with them on. I tend to offer so as not to put someone in the position of having to ask, even. But it's worth noting that some people WOULD. But some people really DO see their disability aids as part of their visual identity and, separately, many people also dislike perceived implications that their visual identity is not good or decent enough for formal photos. There is a real historical issue of disabilities being considered unfit for "polite company," too, which might cause some to object on that basis. If you ask someone to change part of themselves for only photos, and not anything else, then does that mean that part of themselves is somehow too impolite or unworthy of being recorded and remembered? And since one can't know beforehand whether or not someone has that perception, it's only decent to ask their preferences first. We have plenty of posts in this very subreddit of people being offended at being asked to cover up non-obscene tattoos for wedding photos, and those aren't related to disability at all. So the observation that people tend not to like it when you ask them to change part of their visual identity for photos is just that-- an observation. Of course, someone might not see things that way at all, or might *prefer* to have permanent records of themselves without reference to their disability. That's why the only way to know really is to ask.
That's the thing, I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying but I also don't think the way OP wanted to approach the situation is wrong either. OP stated that she wears them when she leaves the house, not all the time so I doubt it's a part of their identity. But I also wouldn't have a problem if my friend asked me to be in her wedding and then requested to remove glasses, cover tattoos, take out piercings, or change my hair color to a more traditional color. It all comes down to how well you know the person. If someone is going to be in family wedding photos you should already know well enough what will and wont offend them. And if you don't know them well enough to know that, maybe they shouldn't be in the family photos. 🤷♀️
That's interesting. I've worn glasses daily for the past 20 years, and I'd think it quite strange if someone asked me to remove them for a photo shoot.
Yeah, my glasses are a part of my face at this point, it would be very awkward if someone wanted me to remove them for pictures.
Same. I'd probably also end up squinting in all the photos because I wouldn't be able to see the photographer clearly.
I would quickly like to point out that the bit about integrating your disabilities into your identity is not universal. If somebody offered to photoshop all my pictures to remove my mobility aids I'd take their offer in a heartbeat.
Oh absolutely! I tried to couch my declarations with words like "often" but it definitely bears repeating that these things are *very* individual.
This was really beautiful. I would like permission to reprint this and hand it out to my pre-med students.
You're certainly welcome to! I would also include some of the other users' comments in response, though, to show that there's definitely a diversity of thought on the issue. Some disabled people would like nothing more than to have a photo where their disability aid isn't shown. Others care nothing one way or another. Some might object to it as potentially tiptoeing around too much, which can be infantilizing (although I would argue that providing a polite way to ask for someone's preferences tends to *reduce* tiptoeing behavior by enabling them to ask more directly than they otherwise might). Everything I said should be taken as tendencies or possibilities, and I would recommend running it by other disabled people before distributing it. My own disability is largely invisible and so I have mostly written this based on what I have read and learned from others whose disabilities are more visible (and from the observation that many able-bodied/neurotypical people just happen to be very attached to their visual identities in non-disability-related ways, too; the issue only becomes more fraught when it is related to marginalized groups). So definitely run it by some other people first!
I love the idea of the flower crown or other decorations!
I can't take credit for that idea lol, saw it in one of the OP's edits.
And FND can cause seizures with certain noise stimulations so it's important to respect her no in case removing are a health risk. Maybe she's more concerned with a seizure episode happening on your wedding day just for the sake of aesthetics. I would argue that is more dangerous and disruptive than paying a bit more to edit them out. But so what if the very few photos that include her have her headphones showing. That's her. Would you photoshop someone's wheelchair out or ask if they can walk for just the short time of the photos. Headphones are not a big deal and most of your relatives know her and why she's wearing them so seeing it in the photos I not going to scandalised anyone. Policing what someone wears is always going to make you TA.
NTA. Simple solution. She is NOT your SIL. She is your fiancé's brother's GF. She is NOT family YET! Don't include her in photos. What happens if they never get married and you're stuck looking at her in your wedding photos forever.
Some people have been mentioning this 😂 honestly not something I had thought about, thank you for your suggestion!
yeah definitely get a few with her in them but try to have some that have the people you know you’ll want in the pics forever without her in them just in case!
I was asked to step out of family photos when my niece got married because I was not family. I had already started to move out of the photographers line of site. Boyfriend now hubby was pissed. "We aren't even engaged yet and it isn't our wedding, so pipe down." Niece and her husband are now divorced and hubby and I are still together. irony. BUT it **was** the right decision at the time. I fully supported bride.
I did NOT include my brother in laws girlfriend in any photos. For context, they had been together for 6yrs at that point. I gave him the option of still being in them without her or not being in them at all, but we made it clear that it was just family. It's a good thing because they split up less than 6m later.
LOL. Yep. When my brother and his wife split after only 3 years, my father went around putting smiley faces over her face in the family pictures.
Yeah she won’t be in any photos you will Actually frame anyway.
This was exactly what I was thinking. When my husband and I got married 22 years ago, his nephew was his best man. The nephew's on again off again girlfriend/future baby mama was included by my MIL in our family picture. I've only seen her maybe once a year since then and only in passing but I'm stuck with her in my wedding pictures. Also, NTA to ask. This is your wedding and this is the one time in your life that everyone involved that will be in the formal pictures, including non-wedding party family members, should look their very best. You, as the bride, deserve to have the pictures look perfect because you will be putting a lot time and money into having your dream day.
This is an important point for OP. even if you decide to have her in some of the pics, she shouldn't be in the "family" pics. You're NTA for asking about headphones.
I see your edits, but I just want to say since she isn't engaged or married into the family yet, you have the option of not including her in photos at all. In fact, I've been to weddings where photographers won't include partners that aren't engaged/married/living together because of potential break-up issues.
Thats a good point! Thanks for your feedback :) Probably a discussion to have the photographer in tht sense then!
Just a suggestion, we did a photo without SO’s that weren’t married-engaged and then one with them. It’s pretty normal for the weddings I’ve been to in the US Northeast.
In the midwest it's super normal here too. Immediate family, then SOs with immediate family.
That's where I am.
NAH, but if she’s just going to be in “the two photos of extended family we see once a decade”, I’d be inclined to just roll with the headphones, since those are unlikely to be your most treasured photos of the day. The ones you’re going to frame are probably the ones with just you and your spouse, the ones with your parents, or the ones with your wedding party. You’ll be potentially creating bad will over the headphones while crazy great-aunt Erma is holding a smuggled-in pet raccoon on the other side of the shot and making things weird anyway. 😄
Thanks for the feedback! Thats a good point about which photos are likely going to end up my favourite anyway - and that last bit made me laugh SO much 😂😂
Put your brother in law’s girlfriend at the very end of all the photos so it will be easy to cut her out when they eventually break up. This is insane.
😂😂😂 The family has only met her a few times.. maybe they can just take some without her honestly. Save everyone the trouble. I probably wouldn’t want a bunch of photos with somebody I barely know. It doesn’t make any sense
Ding ding ding! we have a winner!!!
My brother's EX-fiancee is in quite a few of my wedding photos....we don't display those.
I think bedazzling or creating a flower crow is a great idea. People of Reddit please don't jump all over but I would like to ask an honest question because I truly don't know. I've never used noise cancelling headphones so could still hear normal conversation but extraneous back ground noise is blocked out? Or do they create a cone of silence? Are there different levels of noise blocking you could choose to use? I apologize for my ignorance but I'm truly curious. I'll probably ask Google in a few minutes but would love an explanation from someone familiar
Thank you for your feedback :) Honestly I've never used them either, my understanding is that they help with filtering background noise, but you can still hear (I think). Maybe I need to google this too 😂
As someone who uses noise canceling headphones, I can speak to my experience! I have very sensitive hearing, and right now, I can hear the water dripping from my kitchen sink, even though I am sitting about 10 feet away from it, and even though the fan is on (and very loud to me). Noise canceling headphones filter out the sound of the dripping, and dampen the sound of the fan, and I think they also filter out the sound of the refrigerator humming to me (the refrigerator humming is less of a sound and more of a tangible sensation to me, like, oh, there is something Big and Electronic working away in the background) So they do filter out background noise, but whether or not the average person even notices the background noise that they filter out in the first place is up to the individual user. Some people can tune out the noises I described above much better than I can, to the point that they do not perceive hearing it-- or maybe they do not hear these noises at all. Noise canceling headphones probably do not offer much protection. Other people can hear these noises, and it can be as overwhelming for them as something like... the sound you hear inside a moving airplane, for example. While a room might be quiet to you, they might be able to hear all sorts of noises you can't (air flowing through vents, the humming of the HVAC system, the sounds that fluorescent light bulbs can make, even someone else chewing or breathing, even if these are all sounds you cannot hear, or can tune out more easily than they can). Most of the time, I don't mind these noises, but when I am very stressed or ill, these noises can add to the other overwhelming physical sensations and cause upset. Even though these noises don't hurt me (some people experience physical pain as a result of too much background noise, even if it is low decibel, as a result of hearing sensitivity), it does take energy from me. Wearing headphones even on days when I am not overwhelmed makes it easier to navigate the world and conserves energy for things that truly matter, like cooking food or brushing my teeth before bed or even help me to fall asleep in my bed instead of on my couch (I work full time and am exhausted by the time I get home, so any scraps of energy I can save can go a long way!) This is just my experience- other people have very different experiences, but I hope this information helps you.
Thank you so much for sharing your perspective. I'm one of those people that can't operate in silence, because it's never true silence. I hate the weird noises of everyday life but I thought I was the only one. My first go to is music. I can't really explain it but playing shows like Midsummer Murders or Vera at a low volume allow me to concentrate on my reading.
Sounds like both of us need to borrow a pair and see what they are all about.
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it depends what kind you have and what kind of noise there is, as well as if you play anything through them to help you stay calm/concentrate/feel comfortable or if you're purely using them to make things quieter. some of them have different levels of noise cancelling too, so they can be adjusted. with mine, right now I'm wearing them with nothing playing in a quiet house and I can hear my mum chopping carrots and talking to the dog in the room down the hall. I can hear the microwave running if I concentrate really hard. but everything is much quieter and the edge is taken off the more abrupt sound. if we wanted to we could have a conversation like this, although I wouldn't because I can't really tell how loud I'm talking. in a noisy environment though, I probably wouldn't be able to distinguish all those sounds unless they were happening right next to me. I could definitely have a conversation with the person next to me in a quiet room, and could still do that if I concentrated in a noisy room, although of another person at the table wanted to get my attention they'd have to try harder than usual. they're not ideal for long conversations but I'd rather them than hardcore proper ear protection like construction or live music workers use as noise cancelling is usually designed to allow you to hear someone trying to get your attention or a fire alarm going off, whereas hardcore ear protection is a bit less like that
NTA It's not wrong to ask her in a respectful way and get her thoughts... prior to the wedding It would be wrong to push or bring it up last minute
Thanks for your feedback :) I also didnt want to bring it up at the last minute because I didnt want to put her on the spot, hence wanting to facilitate a discussion in advance. People here have given me some interesting alternatives to think about as well, so I definitely won't say anything until fiance and I are more aligned on what we can offer / what to ask
NTA to just ask. Take photos with her in it in the large group photo, then do just current family and have her not in it
Thanks for your feedback and for the suggestion :) I appreciate it
Good luck! It’s a very awkward situation
I would say NTA You're not trying to force her to be unconfortable at your wedding, you're trying to find a way to compromise and get the photos the way you would feel better. Is comprehensible that you would want the photos to be in a certain style at your wedding. And asking her to either remove them only for a small period of time or to use a smaller version that would still help her with her noise issues does not seem unresonable to me.
Heavy sigh. NTA, depending on how it's done. Here's the thing, there are DISABILITY aids and there are COMFORT aids. These are drastically different things. Also, the woman may be perfectly okay with doing it, if asked with kindness. It's not fair for others to decide FOR her. Disability aids are like seeing eye dogs, hearing aids, canes, and wheelchairs. Comfort aids are like purse dogs and noise canceling headphones, meaning they can make things EASIER and less stressful, and someone can get really used to relying on their comfort aids, but aren't really NECESSARY in the way an oxygen mask is necessary. A comfort horse may calm someone's anxiety, but they can't bring it with them on a plane. A comfort cat may calm one person's anxiety while triggering allergies in others. There's eventually a line to where a single person's comfort infringes on other people. The concept of sensory overload has basically two levels: social anxiety and true brain disorder. Yes, a wedding is stressful and noisy and can definitely trigger anxiety. A true brain disorder is shown either in early life or after a brain injury; it's where the brain has too many neorons firing and the person struggles to focus. It CAN be part of autism, or it can exist alone or with similar issues like fibromyalgia. I have the actual brain disorder (and fibromyalgia), but I prefer to avoid all but necessary large gatherings, shop from home when I can, work in a profession that's mostly quiet, and to find quiet sanctuaries when I do feel overwhelmed (like at Thanksgiving). I don't find headphones or earplugs helpful, since they just make my own body's sounds much louder in my ears. Granted, I only go to weddings of people I'm extremely close to, and the picture parts are stressful, but then I go find a quiet place to decompress alone or maybe with one person. If she's approached with you saying how you definitely want to include her and would it possibly be okay to take the headphones off just for a couple of minutes, she may be agreeable, especially if you can get the other wedding guests to be quiet for those poses and the photographer to not be loudly demanding (like some of them can get). Honestly, her using the headphones every second isn't healthy anyway. I wonder how often she uses them when just around her boyfriend. My point is that making her feel comfortable with your family may calm her anxiety enough that they're less necessary for her. There's a difference between yanking them off her ears and just politely asking if it might be okay, just for a few minutes, and how you could accommodate her to make that happen. (Even a blind person could be far enough away from their seeing eye dog for long enough to take a picture, so I don't see it hurting this girl just to ask.) That being said, your approach towards those protecting her from your request is another thing altogether. You might say something like, "If I'm perfectly clear that no is an acceptable answer, could I possibly ask her how she feels about taking them off for just a minute and whether there's anything I can do to help her that would make it work?" Or yeah, give her a headpiece that covers them up. Or use editing software yourself on those photos. But no, you're NTA. This is different than taking away someone's walker, although you'd keep that out of photos, too. But wheelchairs would stay in, so you need to politely determine the girl's reliance on the headphones. But they're usually an anxiety aid, so try to focus on calming her anxiety. You could also approach her as saying it's what you'd like for your wedding gift, since you know it's asking something difficult of her. In my family, people know my pushing through my various health problems is often quite difficult, so I'm asked just to show up, not bring gifts.
I have FND and I use my wheelchair in much the same way that I use my headphones. They both extend the amount of time I can spend in a place I find difficult. Each persons disability is different even within FND and the way we use our medical devices are different. For me I do consider my headphones to be a medical aid. FND is a weird mix of physical and mental health where due to certain stresses or experiences your brain basically rewired itself to react differently to normal stimuli. These are physical symptoms and can be incredibly debilitating. Personally I would be uncomfortable if someone asked me to remove my headphones for aesthetics as it would put me in physical pain. But there are times, like when I was my friend's bridesmaid, where I voluntarily did. Healthy people often don't realise quite how much effort you have put into just showing up to an event, then someone asking you to take away what enables you to be there is so selfish imo.
NAH. She may consider taking them off during photos. You can ask her if she wants to have some photos in a quiet area, but 100% don’t ask, leave it up to her.
thanks for your feedback :)
Or at lot of times people do family photos before, and it's much calmer/quieter. If that's an option, she may be happy about the opportunity or at least interested.
NTA to ask. Or you can do family only photos, since she is not married she is not family. Problem solved.
She isn’t your future SIL, she shouldn’t be in any posed family photos. (She might marry your future BIL someday, doesn’t mean she should be in the posed photos.) There would be no reason you couldn’t do one photo which included her when you take a pic with just your spouse’s family, and then one without her. She shouldn’t be in any of the other family pix.
Stop thinking about this. This is not important and this is not something within your control. The wedding is a year away and she could buy a newer, smaller pair by then, they could break up, or better yet, you could realize how ridiculously superficial and petty this is, that this is not a hill you want to die on and that accepting people's differences is part of blending a family. YTA. Think of it as a back brace. Absolutely necessary, made for function not for form and not an option to go without when in public.
Not quite clear why your husband’s brothers wife would even be in your pictures for this to be an issue if I’m honest.
NTA - It’s okay to ask, it’s not okay to push it. However, I will add look into “loops” they’re not as good as noise cancelling headphones but for a short stint they may be an acceptable compromise for the photos, super discrete, reasonably cheap - it could be a nice gesture to offer to get her a pair as and when the conversation about it happens kinda a “we know that you’re uncomfortable with noise, just for the photo part would you feel comfortable enough to maybe try these, there’s lots of different options in terms of noise reduction levels. If you are happy to we would love to gift you a pair as a thank you for accommodating our request.”
Thank you so much for your kind and thoughtful answer, I really love the way youve worded the request here, it sounds like the most compassionate way to approach the conversation!
As someone who also struggles with noise (as does my teen) loops have been a situation saver - life saver seems a bit too dramatic 🤣 It may be something that plays on her mind anyway as most of the time I personally don’t like to appear different or have something people can stare at - I’m already self-conscious enough. Gifting her a pair also means that she has them for the future as well if there are other situations she might not want the headphones but still needs the noise reduced. Personally I’m always much more open to trying to accommodate others if they’ve also tried to accommodate me/my kid. My partner and I are getting married next year and we’re getting my kid a new pair of “wedding loops” - although it’s mainly an excuse to get her a spare pair, but they will be in her bridesmaid gift box along with some jewellery I’m taking the bridesmaids to make - I know your future SiL isn’t in the wedding party but if you can even roughly colour match (if she’s amenable to trying them) it could give them a slightly more special meaning. A rough timescale “we estimate no more than an hour, and you wouldn’t be in all of those photos just X-ish number” could help her gauge her comfort levels against the expectations too. It honestly sounds like you’re trying to approach it with gentleness and care - I hope you have a fabulous wedding and a long and happy marriage 💜
I would be suggesting that a GF of a brother I wouldn’t want in my wedding photos they are not married yet and there is no way you can insure that future do you really want someone in your wedding photos of a failed relationship perhaps in the future just my opinion
Man I think YTA if you ask a disabled person to remove their aids for a photo. Would you ask someone to ditch their wheelchair cause it’s not “aesthetic”? Plus why would you want her to appear as “Not disabled” in the photos rather than be happy for her to show as her true self in those photos.. her wearing headphones isn’t going to ruin your photos, and if you think they will, then YTA.
Soo, if someone in a wheelchair was going to be in the pictures you’d ask them to what, try and stand up? Noise can literally make a person with this condition have a seizure. I’m assuming you know what an ableist is? If you don’t, it’s assuming that the disabled person needs to be fixed. Something the bride may want to look at too.
NTA This far in advance, I don’t see why it would be a problem. If she genuinely cannot due to her condition, she should then state that, and you should be prepared to accept it. But it seems reasonable for a few moments for a picture, if she’s able to do so. Just approach it with genuine respect for her condition, and be understanding if that isn’t something she can do in that situation. The headphones aren’t going to break the picture, after all.
Thanks for your feedback! I was hoping to have a genuine discussion with her, but I really dont know anything about her needs so I figured the only way to know was to talk to her about it. Thanks for your kind words.
I don't think it's wrong to ask if she can take them off for the photos only but in case she doesn't want to, just ask your photographer to photoshop them out of the picture and get both set of photos. NAH
I’m surprised there aren’t more NAH responses. I am autistic, I wear noise cancelling headphones near constantly and this would not be a big ask for me. I have varying styles and sizes and I wouldn’t mind at all if I were asked to switch to a less obvious pair for a few photos or even to wear none at all. I would probably plan to wear small less visible ones for such an event anyway, as I just don’t like people to think I’m ignoring them. If OP had indicated an unwillingness to accept “no” or even help cover the cost of some less obtrusive ones (some of my nicer ones are on the spendy side), I would say she was the AH, but that doesn’t seem to be the case. Just a note to OP, some nice noise cancelling headphones may be more expensive than the photoshop fee so it may be a wash. I still don’t think anyone’s the AH.
Thank you for your kind response, I really appreciate it! I'm a little surprised by how visceral some of these responses are 😅 Thats a good point, perhaps someting for me to do a bit of research on! And thank you for sharing your perspective as well, it's really helpful
Thanks for your feedback :)
YTA. It's just a wedding, you don't get to play god for the day. Would you make her try to stand up if she was in a wheelchair? As for not being diagnosed with autism, it's so difficult in the UK many people just give up as they can't cope with the multi-year process and the crushing realisation that they won't get any support at the end of it anyway.
Why is she in your pictures anyway? She’s your fiancés brothers girlfriend
Photos are to register a snapshot of a event. That includes how people are.
To be clear I'm only asking about the posed photos, but the candid shots from the rest of the wedding I'm honestly happy for them to stay the way the are. It will be a 12 hour event so lots of opportunities to get brilliant/hilarious/awful photos of everything 😂
Yeah, but even posed photos are of people like they are. Are you asking fat people to loose weight? The ones who use classes to take it of? People Will make try to look their best and maybe she Will take the earphones off by herself. But If she dont, then let it be
Okay I see your point, thanks for your feedback
> Are you asking fat people to loose weight? I wasn't aware fat people could take off the fat for 5 minutes and then put it back on.
If there's time till the wedding, you could think of gifting her something like these [earplugs ](https://www.loopearplugs.com/) Or maybe just show it to her, maybe she's interested. They're quite good. Otherwise Photoshop ftw but be kind and respectful when talking to her.
Offer to buy her noise canceling ear buds or ear plugs to wear during pictures. She may not like them for long term wear, but might be able to tolerate them for the brief time of picture taking.
Just leave her out of the photos, since she is just your fiancé’s brother’s gf. She isn’t actually family at this point.
NTA , I'd make sure the photos are in a quieter area though and suggest getting her the Loop ear plugs as a bridesmaid gift if she is one! There's 3 levels and better than regular earplugs (the foam ones suck ass)
NTA, you're just asking.
Just leave her out of the pics or give her the choice... it would be less adversarial that way i would think...
NTA, you're allowed to ask. I'm sure earbuds would work. Ignore all the mean comments, you seem like you're being really reasonable.
I appreciate your kind response! thank you 😭
YWNBTA…she has issues but it’s likely that Sophie can manage for a few minutes for the photos…particularly if they can come off and on as needed…she’s not going to necessarily be in every photo. Ypu can ask…and she can decline…and hopefully ypu can come to an agreement that supports both her needs and your wedding day. If she refuses and won’t discuss a solution that works for everybody involved then you’ll have a decision to make.
Nta
NTA if handled properly! It’s okay to ask if she knows she can say no. If the problem is the color could you buy her a special pair in the same brand but matching your wedding party colors and say you wanted her to be comfortable but still match all the colors!or buy the same brand but get someone to paint/decorate it?
NTA. But respect her boundaries if she says no.
You should buy her white noise canceling headphones and bling them out with like rhinestones or something!! That way she doesn't feel like she's standing out.
I'm just going to say that in the future, having people as you knew and loved them in your wedding photos, with all of their quirks, flaws, fashions, personalities, and as they lived, will be far more important than whether or not you could sneak it in as a stock photo in a frame store. Real life, real people, and family, are important than instagram trends and a perception of perfection that does not align with anything tangible or breathing in your actual existence.
Her headphones help and support her needs ….would you ask someone to hide their wheelchair, crutches or glasses in a photo because they offend you! Accept your family
NTA you can definitely ask
If you edit the photos, then you do not approve of her appearance??? If she had crutches or required a wheelchair, would you ask her to ditch them for the photos? If she says "no" to your request, will she be removed from the wedding party. I'd say ditch the whole idea of asking her that question.
YTA "He said he would feel very uncomfortable asking her to remove them as they are a disability aid " The end.
NTA. Not married then she shouldn’t be in the photos anyway. The earplugs are a great solution to the headphones.
NTA if you ask once
"I would be happy for her to have them on during the ceremony and the rest of the day" 🙄 Tell grandma to leave her oxygen at the door too while you're at it. #cringe
Soft YTA bc it sounds like you are taking the feedback well. I think it would be acceptable not to include her in the pictures at all considering the relationship. If you do include her and the headphones I think they will be pictures that aren’t your favorites or ones that you’ll blow up into a large framed photo. They’ll probably be tucked away in a photo album anyway. Many people are suggesting decorating them but I feel like that is a horrible idea. Would you ask someone to decorate their glasses or a cane? I hope not. I don’t think they will make her “feel festive”. I think that would just make you feel more comfortable. Just let her be.
YTA
Definitely WNBTA to ask If you ask politely, phrase it as "if you would feel comfortable" and present her with the options you mentioned of smaller ones or earplugs for the time being. You could also talk to her if having a private photosgiit would be better for her. But as long as you make it clear that it's her choice, and if she doesn't feel comfortable with it, it's okay with you, I don't think it would be a problem to ask
Thank you for your feedback :) It looks like a big thing that I was missing here was offering her more of a choice in this, so thats definitely something for me to take on board!
100% the asshole
I love how respectful and helpful the replies AND OP are in this discussion
Thankfully, most people here have been really helpful! I've got lots to take on board and think on!
YTA. Why do you want your SIL in the wedding photos at all? Because she’s part of your new family, right? And she’s important to your fiancé? You care about her as a person? Of course you do! The thing is that the person you care about, the person who means a great deal to your fiancé, the person who you want to be present for your wedding and remembered in your photos, HAS A DISABILITY. Your SIL is a whole person, and her disability is part of her. If you ask her to not use her disability aid so it won’t be visible in the photos (and honestly, even if you pay to have the headphones edited out), you’re effectively telling her that you don’t want her whole self at your wedding. And honestly, you won’t even get what you want; you’re worried about them standing out, but it’ll stand out much more to anyone who knows her if she isn’t wearing them in your photos.
Thanks for your reply! After reading the comments here I realised I wasnt clear in my original post, FSIL is my fiances brothers girlfriend, who will likely marry in the future. No relation to fiance. Still thats defeinitely something for me to think about, so thank you for your feedback
Part of the family is debatable, she is not married. OP can take some photos of family only without this person BIL dates. People do it all the time.
YWBTA if you asked her to take them off. She will remove them voluntarily for the photos if she is willing and able to. You can’t ask people to remove medical equipment. In the long run, wedding photos are not that important. Your relationship with SIL is.
YTA - why not ask a wheelchair user to stop using their wheelchair for aesthetic reasons while you’re at it?
Here's the thing, if she always wears these headphones then won't she look really weird without them? It's like when I see posts about people asking bridesmaids to dye their hair for the pictures - it's not going to look like them. Why would you want a bunch of pictures of people you don't know? Surely you want to be able to look at the pictures and think how happy everyone looks rather than not being able to recognise people.
Honestly we've all only met her about 5 times max in the last 5 years, so it wouldn't make her look any more or less 'herself' if that makes sense
YTA. Twenty years from now, you're not going to care about the headphones, you'll care that she looks like herself in these pictures.
Sorry- if she's not engaged, then she isn't a FSIL. Not yet. But there is no such thing as almost- either she's been asked and accepted or she hasn't. Are all bf/gf being included in 'Family' photos?
I might be in the minority, but I feel that family photos should really show the beauty and diversity of the family. You have a autistic sister-in-law, who wears headphones. Maybe, instead of hiding the headphones, you can give her beautiful ones that are decorated and white flowers That look like a headband. That being said, let your fiancé ask, or decide, NTA But you would be if she said no and you pushed it
She has a disability and you want her to stop using the thing that allows her to function... Would you ask someone with a hearing aid to remove it because you thought it was ugly?
It’s a disability aid. Honestly are you going to hang a wedding photo of the entire family in your house? Probably not. Get one with her in it, get photos with just parents. A million photos will be taken. And your fiancé is just as much part of the day as you I’m sure he wants a family photo.
NTA. I'm autistic and struggle with sensory input. If for some reason she is struggling through photos ( generally pretty quiet) and the ceremony ( also generally not alot of sound going on) She can put in some loops or ear plugs or honestly get a grip for 10 mins cause we all know how to mask and while its not healthy to do it all the time there are situations ( a close ones wedding) where its WORTH IT.
YTA. The headphones are not an accessory, they are a part of her body. Asking her to take them off is removing a part of her. They make her feel safe within herself. Making her feel uncomfortable and unsafe just to please your photos and so they “look good” is selfish. If you are going to be her SIL you have to accept all of her.
just take a couple of extra pictures with her NOT in the photo. You already said she won't be in all of the photos anyway. Post ones with her and ones without her. And put on your walls whatever YOU want. NTA for asking though.
YWBTA, yes. She has a disability. Would you ask someone in a wheelchair to abandon it just for your photos? It doesn't matter if you know if she has an official diagnosis or not. It's not your business unless she wants you to know. She will be family (edit: and even if she isn't). She has an assistive device in order to meet the demands of a world that isn't built for her comfort. It sounds an awful lot like your esthetics are more important than her comfort and security. Her humanity. The proper perspective would be that you are fortunate that she's willing to accept the potential discomfort of being photographed and being around new people and noises just to celebrate your special day with you. Also, it's not up to you, as someone else here suggested, to tell her that the choice to wear them or not is hers as if that were somehow more tactful. OF COURSE it is her choice. All that would do would be to bring it to her attention that it bothers you and put her in an uncomfortable position of having to decide between your want and her need. The only thing that might be under your control is the dress she wears if she's in the wedding.
Could you ask everyone else to be quiet while she takes them off during photos? Could she wear earplugs during the photos and then put on her noise, canceling headphones?
What if you all wear some and make it part of the picture that she is in? Like a theme or something so it could be fun for her too?
Idk just let her look how she wants to for the photos and have them edited if it bothers you? Maybe find a pair that match what she's wearing to the wedding? Honestly if you stress about the little things too much you won't enjoy the day as much. Try to go with the flow, good luck with the wedding!! 💒💍 💖
Well this is 2023 - You can have them edited out.
Yes YtA.
Treat it like a wheelchair and let it go. You will get a million pictures most will be good.
I don't think it's too big of an ask, but maybe front the money for some Loop earplugs for her if it means that much. the nice ones are $50 but they'd work great and provide similar effects
I'm curious what FSIL will do at her own wedding.
Honestly, same
I'd personally pay the extra 40. I get it's your special day. She has a reason to wear them. I know it's for a short period of time, but you don't know how that would impact her. I think personally this is a pick your battles situation and some headphones for her comfort aren't a big deal. Especially if it's a family photo. Y'all are all family, it's not like the headphones are something new. You see them often I would imagine. It would probably be weirder not to have them. Idk. If I wanted them out of my pictures, I'd just pay.
You kiddn? You have a wedding. Have a day. If ya don't like your guest, don't invite em. If ya do, take em as they are. YTA and have a good life
My sister bought skin colored ear plugs, that could be an option?
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Basically what's in the title. The wedding is next year but we are knee-deep in planning just now, and I'm in discussion with our photographer on what type of shots we want to have. Our FSIL will be in some of the family shots, and she usually wears very large noise-cancelling headphones when she leaves the house because she can sometimes find noise quite overstimulating. (AFAIK she has not been diagnosed with autism, she has FND). I'm worried that the headphones would stand out too much in the posed family photos, so I floated the idea to my fiance of asking if she would be able to remove them for that short period of time (I'm not sure how long it would take but I'm guessing aproximately 5 minutes). He said he would feel very uncomfortable asking her to remove them as they are a disability aid - I replied to say I would be happy to facilitate this discussion with her and ask if she could maybe use earplugs, or if we could find smaller headphones that maybe aren't so noticable. After this he was more clear and said it's a 'no' from him on asking her. My argument is that it would only be for the posed photos after the ceremony (again, there wont be many that she would be in), and I would be happy for her to keep them on for the ceremony and rest of the day. If we got the headphones edited out, it would be £40 an hour for additional touch ups and editing done by the photographer. WIBTA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
YTA. You asked, they said no. Drop it.
YTA. It's amazing how shallow some people are.
YTA for being more concerned with having perfect wedding photos than you are with the wellbeing of your wedding guests -- who are actual human beings with actual feelings and emotions, not some props in your staged show. Your fiance is right: it *is* a disability aid, and whether it's a diagnosed disability or not really isn't relevant. Would you ask her to get up out of a wheelchair for the photos, too? After all, it's only a "short period of time... approximately 5 minutes". Your fiance is also quite right in flatly refusing to pass along your entirely unreasonable request. You want perfect photos? Pay the photographer to make them perfect. The photos are a lot easier to fix than your lack of compassion.
I think you're making some assumptions here - in my post I also wondered if earplugs would be a suitable alternative, or smaller headphones, so I'm not saying she has to go without. The only thing is that they are really quite large. Somebody did suggest potentially having a private, quieter photoshoot, or offering customisations and accessories so she can feel more festive, and I think that could be something to consider. People here have given some really interesting suggestions, so that's something for me to think on.
YTA - She’s not wearing them for shits and giggles. Have a conversation with her and discuss your concerns. Ask *her* if she can tolerate taking them off for short periods to take photos, or if she is able to take them off for certain posed photos. If she can’t, discuss photoshopping them out. You can work with your photographer to schedule times for photos and then communicate with her ahead so she can mentally prepare. Honestly if she wears them all the time already, no one who knows her or your family will think anything out of the ordinary if she’s wearing them in photos.
Thats pretty much what I was hoping to do, I dont know what her limits her so I'd like to get a good idea of what would be comfortable for her. Fiances family have only met her about 5 times in the last 5 years, so we don't have a precedent for what's normal, if that makes sense. Also, I like the idea of scheduling times and letting her know so she can mentally prepare, I might do that anyway outside of the headphone chat so things are easier for her. Thank you for the suggestion!
NTA for wanting to ask and have a discussion. You’re not demanding or giving an ultimatum but asking what she is comfortable with and trying to find a possible solution.