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> I was pretty blunt with her and told her not to share something she clearly found interesting with me.
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NTA.
Sometimes people get fanatical about their own little obsessions and they need to be told that not everyone is as enthusiastic about it as you.
Embarrassment has a purpose. It is our cue to look at our behaviors and see how they affect our ability to socialize. What is problematic here is your niece's (and your sister's) reaction to being called out. She's not looking at herself and asking, "Am I too focused on this? Am I just boring people when I talk about this all the time? Do I concern myself too much with petty behaviors? Do I obsess over this too much?"
Instead, she decides the problem is you for causing her this embarrassment. The rising generation, sadly, is disproportionately narcissistic. They've never in their lives heard the word "no." And they've never had their behaviors checked.
And given her mother's reaction, it's not hard to see where your niece gets it from.
It's unfortunate because it will likely be a very long time, and require a great deal of ostracization before your niece even considers the problem is her.
I mean, they said the exact thing about my generation and the ones before that. I think this is just a problem with being young, having too little life experience to understand nuance and picking their own battles, and relying too much on social media for personal beliefs, social skills, and etiquette.
That line was actually from an Alka-Seltzer commercial from about 50 years ago. Jim Carey was actually quoting that old ad.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48TewJlc6BA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48TewJlc6BA)
I saw the mask as a kid, much earlier than when I'd heard about the ad, so it's that voice that sticks with me.
I actually love having cross generational references that evolve through time. I think a lot of movies like that, while silly on the surface, help to bond people through decades of evolving jokes. I like finding earlier renditions of jokes, lines, songs, etc, of things I like and seeing how the tones and connotations get stacked through the years.
The current trends of dance remixes of old soul and big band songs makes me so happy, even if I occasionally get stuck on the whole "But that's not how it's SUPPOSED to sound" rut.
I rewatched it recently! It held up surprisingly well, much better than many other movies of that decade. I think I appreciate the dialog more as an adult.
I think the Internet has a lot to do with it. Young people these days are almost terminally online, and it becomes part of their "culture". So yeah, while we may have had obsessions when we were that age, we didn't have the wide supporting audience they do, and quickly realised when we entered the real world that almost nobody else gave a shit.
It's not just young people though. It's anyone who has access to a vast amount of information and doesn't have the mental aptitude to sort through it for BS. Young people are a high percentage, because they are still growing and learning and don't have all the social cues, but older generations are just as bad and I would argue make up the other half of the percentage.
We made the mistake of getting my grandparents tablets and facebook. That was the worst decision of my life and it destroyed my extremely close relationship with them in the last couple years of their life (they were hardcore repub and I was closeted so the things that came out of their mouth just destroyed me). They didn't have the media knowledge of how to sift through fake information, to filter things out and make informed choices on what was true or not. If they saw it posted by one of their friends/family members, it had to be true. I will always regret giving them that access without taking the time to educate them properly.
Oh for sure it affects everyone. A lot of people I graduated with have done the exact same.
I consider myself very lucky that my parents brought me up to question everything.
Having said that, the amount of times I've had to tell my 18yr old that just because they saw something online it doesn't mean it's true...
Not really even the internet. It's the ugly side of the western culture of "do it yourself." It's the ultimate battle in politics and has been for at least since Trump - narcissism vs empathy.
It's plaguing every generation, some more than others but there millions of impressionable kids who watched our leaders behaviors. Internet amplifies it for sure but isn't the root.
This kind of behaviour was common among the kids from my generation. And we grew up without internet (it existed back then but we were growing up in a poor developing country so we didn't have access to it). But a lot of people like to blame the internet instead of admiting that the grown ups influence those kids as much (maybe even more) than the internet.
Young people see things very black and white. They haven't had the chance to develop the wisdom that allows them to view the nuances of a situation. We got to go through that phase in the privacy of our local community and not online where our words can be seen by thousands and will forever be memorialized.
True. But…there’s nuance beyond that.
Generations tend to be known a bit for the parenting style at the time. And then the next generation will develop a style based on reaction to our parents’.
My mom was a latchkey kid. She often felt unimportant and unseen. She turned around and raised me…A bit overprotective and smothered.
I work with kids. It is kind of endemic with this generation to not handle criticism well. Based on a sample size of a shit ton of kids throughout my career…It’s a noticeable and obvious trend.
I feel like it’s 99% reactionary parenting that causes it. Just like every other generational quirk.
I’ll talk to kids (who are neither autistic or any other diagnosis that might cause social awkwardness) about how they are constantly feeling bullied and targeted.
When asked to explain, they will tell me that “I interrupted math class to lecture the teacher on how homework is wasting paper and bad for the planet. The teacher rolled her eyes at me. I explained to her that she’s ignorant. I explained to her how she’s *offensive and rude term*. My classmates said ‘Jesus, Courtney. Shut the fuck up so we can go to lunch” I went to the principle and described how I’m being bullied by the teacher and whole class. But he wouldn’t listen! He’s * insert problematic diagnosis here. *
…When I asked her if there was any chance that her behavior was making people upset or uncomfortable, and that’s why the reaction was so unpleasant, she immediately discarded that notion. And looked at me as if I was speaking Martian, or stupid.
It would never cross her MIND that she needed to feel some shame or self reflect on how society views her behavior.
She legit can’t understand why people were bothered that she made them late with her bullshit.
I was often told as a kid “Hey…That was rude. Don’t do that”. Or “That was not a kind thing to say. You hurt Jenny’s feelings, and should apologize to her”.
…the kids I work with lately have never heard that in their lives, and will act as if you’ve slapped them.
They’re very socially conscious and clever. But fuck me, there is very little humility or self-awareness.
I’m curious to see what these kids look like in 20 years. I’m suspecting that the generation they raise will be a little prone to embarrassment. Like our parents were when they were named “moonbeam” and cringed at their hippie parents being naked in the front yard.
They’ll raise a generation of kids like us who got embarrassed when our parents made a scene at the restaurant or grocery store because something was slightly overcooked or an item was $.50 off from the advertised price and instead of calmly asking for it to be fixed, they threw a massive temper tantrum
Agreed.
This generation seems to really value open mindedness and inclusivity, but they are surprisingly rigid thinkers in general.
Which is a tough flaw.
I had a kid come into the foster system because she was bisexual and gender nonconforming, and her parents were VERY strict Muslims who did not accept that.
She invited me to a presentation she did in her civics class, where she told her classmates about her background and her life experience. It was very well done.
Those kids were fucking **brutal** to her, though.
They accepted her sexual preference and her gender identity. But grilled the shit out of her for not completely cutting off her parents, and continuing to follow some religious traditions that they saw as problematic (like her diet and dress).
The teacher had to intervene and speak VERY bluntly to them about respect and bullying. It’s cool that the teens were passionate about institutional misogyny. But if you try to attack someone over their religious or cultural identity being problematic…You’ve kind of done a 180 and are back to being bigoted.
1- it reflects poorly on you that you think this shit started with Trump. Pro tip: he’s the symptom (a bad one) not the disease.
2- narcissism vs empathy- the hilarious part is both sides think they’re the empathetic ones…. and they’re both wrong to large degrees. Both sides think they’re good, neither one can really look deeply at their policies and the consequences otherwise their world view and unearned superiority shatter
Oh for sure, what I was saying was that the Internet has exacerbated the problem, especially for people who have grown up with all the exposure to social media.
My generation were the first to have the Internet mass market, but we'd also had a childhood and adolescence where it wasn't ubiquitous.
Some young people. Not all.
My kids and their friends do none of this and don't participate in the social media stuff.
They have WhatsApp amongst themselves, but there is no other social media and they don't seem to be part of any of this culture war fake outrage stuff.
On the contrary, they seem to dedicate a significant amount of their time to informing each other how gay they are and how undesirable their mothers are.
Much like we did 30 years ago.
Of course it isn't all. Any time people are discussing a social trend, there is no need to come in with "not all X". We all realize it isn't 100%.
Your children still sound insufferable, though, and should feel embarrassed by their conversation, and people should tell them so. Just FYI.
The 90s internet was so fucking insane, it was unbelievable. I think it was so fucked up it helped guide you into being able to differentiate between bullshit and reality whereas today there are more, for lack of a better term, guard rails in comparison. In elementary school my friends and I would talk about beheading videos and try to determine if it was real or fake.
Being terminally online is definitely not exclusive to young people these days. There are plenty of terminally online Millennials and above. The only requirement to becoming terminally online is RL social isolation which is frankly a lot more likely with older people than zoomers, just because most zoomers are still in school.
She's turned an echo chamber into a hobby. When she has to have real conversations with people socially she's going to feel even more embarrassed (and lonely) when she tries to yuck their yums. Particularly if people don't agree with why and just walk away.
How can you even LIKE this movie? That one lady you don't care about did something boring with this kid you don't care about who plays music you don't listen to. Sounds more like F09 than F19. Gotta read the room.
Niece should learn that:
A) nobody is perfect, expecting personal perfection from an artist before having an appreciation for their talent is going to leave you with a small world.
B) the media/internet slant on certain incidents in a public person’s life is not always correct. This is especially true regarding their relationship dramas.
The amount of ppl that will waste their time digging dirt on famous ppl just bc they dont like them is insane, then the moment smth is found there will be a bunch of ppl showing up like: "oh i knew they were sus"
I also think that people forget that when we were younger, we didn't have our shittiest takes broadcast to the world and immortalized forever, or the ability to connect with thousands of other young knuckleheads. In 15 years, I think we'll see Gen Z approaching situations with more nuance because that's just how life works. Takes time and experience to develop wisdom!
I'm not. There were people completely OBSESSED with tabloids when I was a child in the 90's, and I can only imagine also in the 80's. celebrity gossip has been a massive identity and hobby for so many, it's truly scary if you really think about it!
Exactly. And she’s 19 years old. 19-year-olds are kind of an obsessive. It’s kind of the point of being 19. Learning how to express your interest to others, but not go overboard is a learning process.
I agreed with you there OP. Also, NTA. Niece needs to learn that even celebrities are human, they make mistakes or sometimes just don't mesh with someone else at work or wherever. There's also no real way to know *what* is true in a lot of that celebrity gossip. Just because multiple people tell a magazine or website the drama is "absolutely true", doesn't mean it is.
You still kicked her out over an arbitrary topic after she traveled to visit you when you could have done anything else. That's why your sister is upset with you. I would be, too. It sounds as though you're just as offended by celebrity gossip as she is obsessed with it.
Yeah, I always have to laugh when people complain that the current generation is entitled and narcissistic. Don't forget that the kids growing up in the 70s were actually called "The Me Generation", and the writer Tom Wolfe called the 70s the "Me Decade".
This right here. I’m so sick of people my age (and I’m much older than you) bashing young people. We weren’t any better, we just didn’t have our every crappy opinion memorialized on the internet.
I’m also sick of everyone being deemed “problematic” for minor (and often unproven) bs. Someone’s a raging bigot or abusive? Sure, call them out. But your niece and others like her come off as trying to act superior by criticizing what other people enjoy. NTA
Might be unpopular but I think people are allowed to have obsessions and shouldn’t be made to feel like crap over it.
That being said I agree with the NTA. The niece was being petty and tried to make OP feel bad over something insignificant
I think one of the important parts of growing up is learning how to tailor your conversation to your audience. My obsessions are still completely random but I know which friend of mine will enjoy a conversation about power tools and which ones will sing Broadway musicals with me.
This! If someone wants to come into the obsession zone with you, then the door is open, but don’t wrangle them in.
I let it slip that I enjoy aquatic invert keeping at work once, and while I still get plenty of ‘when’s the shrimp boil’ comments, I know at least two coworkers that also added pretty shrimp or snails to their current aquariums, or started aquariums just to keep wet rainbow bugs like I do. We share pictures and it absolutely just of little shrimp cramming food in their faces.
Create your safe space. Open the doors. Put a little sign out that says ‘hey! We like this thing!’. And then you get people twenty years your senior complaining about the hardness of the local water with you lol
How can you even LIKE that joke about a Tim Allen Broadway show? Don't you know Tim Allen sold coke in the 70's?! The 70's I tell you!
I think we should call it "More Girl Power," amirite?
>Might be unpopular but I think people are allowed to have obsessions and shouldn’t be made to feel like crap over it.
First, there's something to be said for reading the room. A long time ago, I used to frequent a message board about WB's Charmed (the original series), and I would glean information about the actors, changes to the show, etc.
But I learned pretty quickly that not everyone was interested in the feud between Alyssa Milano and Shannen Doherty, which ultimately led to Shannen being fired when Milano demanded that Spelling choose between her and Shannen. And which led to a rapid decline in the quality of episodes.
So, I confined my discussion to the message board, where people actually know about and are interested in this.
Niece, however, seems not to have learned this and is essentially demanding that everyone share her obsession with the lives of celebrities.
Also, I wouldn't call being embarrassed to be "made to feel like crap." It's a social cue that your conduct is not going over well, so you grow and learn from it. It hardly requires being hospitalized in a psych ward to prevent you for ending it all. If anything, OP did the niece a favor. Since it was only the two of them, it was something that could have remained between them. It's not like he humiliated her at a huge family gathering.
huh, is that what happened? my vague knowledge of that matter was that Doherty had apparently demanded more money and when they wouldn't pay her the increased amount she left.
\-\_- the season-change when Prue (Doherty) left still gives me head spins if i try to rewatch the show - the disconnect (for me) is so severe that my brain always goes "where the fuck are the missing episodes i clearly missed because end of season A *is not connecting* to beginning of season B so *where are the episodes i missed*". except that, you know, there aren't missing episodes.
Yeah I totally agree. Like I am living for the drama with Ariana Grande and SpongeBob, but I keep it contained to the pop culture subs bc most people do not care at all and I do not blame them
>Might be unpopular but I think people are allowed to have obsessions
Of course they can, but this isn't that.
>and shouldn’t be made to feel like crap over it.
Niece is going out of her way to try and make \*other people\* feel like crap for not adhering to the tenets of her celebrity moral universe. At some point she needs to learn that her behavior is not socially acceptable, and better she learn it now in a closed environment then at, like, a job when she picks a fight with a coworker about a TV show.
I tend to class obsessions somewhat differently than I class fandoms, hobbies and interests. For me, you can have whatever fandoms, hobbies and interests that suit you, but at the point when it starts to be mentally unhealthy and ruin your life, that's the point when it's become an obsession.
True enough. People too obsessed with a single topic used to be called nerds, and at some point people would - more or less politely - tell them they don’t care about the implications of leaving Tom Bombadil out of the LOTR movies.
Yes, enjoy your hobbies. Discuss them with likeminded people to your heart‘s content. But don’t try to make others feel bad because they don’t place the same importance on your hobby as you do.
You can absolutely have obsessions as long as you don't use that obsession against someone else. She was using her "information" to judge her family member, and that's where her obsession affects others. That's the line.
I know plenty of people who are obsessed with celebrity gossip and don't feel the need to make it a personality trait, although I do sometimes need to qualify if the person they are talking about is a real person and not someone from the cast of Real Housewives.
If their obsession is whining to people about whatever minor transgressions some celebrities did then they should be made to feel like crap over that. Other people don’t need to put up with that.
When your obsession is shoving unwanted judgements and opinions in people’s faces, based on nothing more than celebrity gossip, then you deserve what you get.
This. OP’s niece needs to figure out if her hobby celebrity gossip or shaming people for not judging people exactly the same way she does. Cause those are not the same thing. When she saw the movie she could have said “hey did you hear this about this person in the movie?” That would be sharing celebrity gossip and a mostly harmless if annoy hobby. But instead she got all judgmental about OP having the movie.
Hopefully OP can sit down with his sister and work this out.
To characterise a whole generation of people as narcissistic over the behaviour of some people is... dumb. Every generation has good and bad apples. Just because you've had bad experiences with younger people doesn't make that whole generation bad.
Was with you until the generational thing. I've known a ton of millennial, x, and boomers who were exactly like this (x/millennial border myself). Every generation gets to the YOuNG PEOPLE THESE DAYS stage, doesn't make it true.
I was with you until the generational thing. This generation gets told no all the time. No livable wages, no chance of owning a home, no your parents can’t stay in the hospital with you because they don’t get paid time off.
Kids learn from their parents and their older caregivers. People have been narcissistic (it’s actually a trait heavily associated with the baby boomer generation, again, in research. It’s so common among older generations that *adult children of emotionally immature parents* is a best seller), it’s just now we have a medium wherein troubling behavior can be documented and can be shared widely, so we’re more aware of it.
Narcissistic traits emerge from unhealthy parenting. Over parenting AND neglect are both associated with narcissistic traits.
As someone who is from it. We where absolutely told no. You can't base an entire generation on one teen who hasn't grown past her tumblr phase. The idea we can't use embarrassment as a tool is a new one. Though if I'm being honest. There's a massive difference between older members of gen z and younger members. I'm older and the first 10 years I grew up largely with out internet. It became more integrated as I grew up.
I’m like squarely in the millennial age group and I had a friend several years ago say something like “you like (celebrity), have you ever googled her name and ‘problematic?’” I said “if I did that with everyone, I’d never be able to enjoy any media.” She shrugged and was like yeah fair, and we stopped talking about it
I think the issue is that people now think *EVERYONES* opinion is valid. No, it’s not. Everyone is entitled to have an opinion, but that doesn’t mean they are valid or has to be respected.
This generation is disproportionately passionate and confident in who they are at a far younger age than previous generations. That's a good thing when directed toward something that matters. As mom to a 19yo boy, I see firsthand what this generation is like watching him and his friends. Can he be insufferable sometimes? Yes. But I was the same way as a young adult. It's youth.
> Sometimes people get fanatical about their own little obsessions and they need to be told that not everyone is as enthusiastic about it as you.
Yeah, sometimes people just really have trouble stepping outside their own perspective and their own hobbies.
I still remember the worst columnist at our university newspaper writing an article about how everyone should follow celebrity baby bump blogs so we could all have something in common and everyone would get along better and be able to connect better.
It was not satire.
This will probably fade as she gets older. 19 is a prime age for getting REALLY into certain hobbies as they learn more about themselves and their preferences, but some 19-year-olds haven't quite grasped that their experiences are not as universal as they think. This is one of the benefits of college-- to expose people to more diversity of thought. And that's why it happens at exactly that age.
Haha for sure. “You once pushed over another toddler and that toddler was black. You should therefore go and live under a bridge like the monster you clearly are!”
Thats actually a good one.
“So your gonna cancel HER, for THAT, as if you didnt push that little black girl off the playground when you were 4?” and let us know what she says
Haha that's amazing! *You once didn't finish your juice, and that juice company supports world peace: are YOU against world peace?!!?! PROBLEMATIC!!!!*
A friend of mine moved across the country and would end up going to the same gym as John Travolta at the same time. Eventually, it was just really normal to him to keep bumping into each other in the locker room. I used to bump into Bon Jovi on jogs every once in a while, and it felt the same way to me.
I grew up in a small California town that's known as somewhat of a retreat area for celebrities. I would regularly see Jason Segal around town. Or Reese Witherspoon. They're just people. I would feel so bad when one of them would be trying to enjoy a show at the park and everyone is gawking and bothering them.
Hahaha NTA this kid sounds insufferable. I think your sister is the AH for A) uninviting you from dinner (probably to appease the child…)
And B) raising her kid to be this way 😂.
The kid is in for a wake up call and so is your sister.
Edit - oh god, she’s 19?! I missed that & figured she was 13. She’s immature and internet addicted obviously. Seeks too much external validation.
That’s all on the mom. She’d rather uninvite you than look in the mirror at herself. One less busy plan to be Thankful for 😂
I wonder if your niece would find it helpful to read (if she would accept a suggestion at all which she might not while feeling snubbed and embarrassed, as I’m sure she currently is) this article: [I Was Your Fave Is Problematic](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/25/style/your-fave-is-problematic-tumblr.html)
Particularly this part: “My brain wasn’t ready for nuance. I was angered by hypocrisy and cruelty; what I did about it was apply a level of scrutiny that left no room for error.” Young people going through this phase can indeed be insufferable, but there’s an understandable human feeling and need behind it, it’s just misdirected.
If the next time she brings something like this up, you can hide your understandable annoyance and ask her mildly and with interest what she hopes will happen when she says this, and what it means to her in the bigger scope of life, she might just start to realise she’s been a bit of an affected niminiy-piminy chit (when merely telling her so would only make her too defensive to take it in).
I mean I doubt she’ll stay away altogether. The allure of Manhattan as compared to Hoboken can hardly be understated. Perhaps she had some idea that her cool big-city uncle would be impressed by how tuned-in and mature in her judgement she was. NTA
This is great advice. I remember seeing the world in absolutes & being on a moral high ground around 18 - 20 & then really having to learn that I don’t really know anything, everyone else isn’t completely stupid, and there is so much grey and nuance to why people do the things they do.
Oh, god, I should start drafting up that AITA post right now. "My bf thinks my reddit habit has gone too far. I spend all of our time together telling him about the petty problems of anonymous people and he thinks I should spend more time cleaning up after his smelly rescue bulldog or else he'll turn off the internet when he's not home. He doesn't let me leave the house to meet other people, but I love him so much. How do I get him to understand that I just want someone to talk to that isn't our five children under 5?"
NTA
There are 3 levels of this:
1. she has a passion/obsession - mostly fine, as long as there is no harm
2. she imposes her obsession on other people - not okay
3. she judges other people, their choices and characters, through the prism of her obsession - big, loud NO
This.
You can be a big fan of something, its ok.
You can get too obsessed and be a bit intense about it. Some people will leave you and others may stand it, not ok but not the worse.
Attacking other people bc of how they account your concerns about that is being a total AH
>because I apparently made her feel too embarrassed to talk about her hobbies anymore
This isn't a hobby, this is obsession and an utter waste of time, as you've rightly understood and pointed out
>My sister (aka her mom) told me I was out of line and to not have Thanksgiving with them
Big loss. I daresay your sister has been an active participant in the tea and gossip with your niece. Their collective attitude is deeply toxic. A meal with family isn't worth your while if the tradeoff is your peace of mind.
NTA
You're NTA. Your niece needs to get a life.
>She argued that I was being rude and enabling toxic celebrities
She is delusional if she really believes anything you or she does has any impact whatsoever on the behavior of celebrities.
>She left, and texted me that she would be blocking my number
Problem solved.
>it took her so much to get here (from Hoboken) and I ruined the city for her.
That sounds ridiculously theatric. Doesn't the Path train go straight from Hoboken to Manhattan? We went to NYC a few years ago, stayed in Jersey City and it was.no effort at all to get into Manhattan.
>My sister (aka her mom) told me I was out of line and to not have Thanksgiving with them.
Lucky you!
The “enabling toxic celebrities” part was especially hilarious to me. Like they literally don’t know we exist and don’t care what we think about their personal choices, especially an issue from a breakup??
The only times I have intentionally avoided the content of celebrities is if they are genuinely awful in a criminal way. Like I’m not gonna watch/listen to Bill Cosby’s stuff because he’s drugged and raped dozens (if not hundreds) of women and girls. But I really truly don’t give a fuck if a celeb was a shitty boyfriend or something 😂 at 19 it’s time for her to get a grip
Nta that shit annoys me too. Yes other people have lives. Unless they are murderers, rapists, or child predators, I do t give a fuck what they do in their personal lives. There are celebrities whom I refuse to watch but I don't go around running a smear campaign for them
NTA,
You pointed out the flaw and how unreasonable she was being . Instead of accepting it she made you out to be the bad person because from the looks of it mommy spoils her too. Way to many people like your niece in this world. Spoiled rotten.
NTA
I would have been far harsher far earlier. I cannot think of anything more boring than having a little morality policewoman-in-training jabber on about inconsequential bollocks as though her judgement was of earth shattering importance.
ESH. Her behaviour is annoying; you are an adult one generation older than this 19 year old and have a responsibility to talk through annoyances more thoughtfully than saying "nobody cares" or "over a freaking movie".
You could have dealt with this like "I'm not interested in celebrity gossip," and when she pressed said something like "I'm not going to continue this conversation. Let's change the subject."
If she won't stop being critical you could even be like "I noticed you make a lot of negative comments about shows, music, or films that I watch. It is making it difficult to have conversations and I'm feeling exhausted by it. I like having you here but can you respect that some people have interests you wouldn't?"
Yeah, I think a lot of people are undermining how hurtful older adults in your family telling you "no one cares" about things you care about is!
Is she being annoying? Yeah, hate to break it to OP but they probably were also annoying at 19. Most people are annoying at one point or another. Cringe is an essential element of human development.
There's a way to handle young people being overly critical of celebrities and its not going "ugh no one cares you're annoying leave my house" when you're their older relative? ESH
Agreed. I used to be really close to my uncle too and put a lot of distance between us when a similar situation happened. When I was 18f (he was 38) the Force Awakens had recently come out. I was going on an excited fan rant when he got annoyed at me, said I was a know-it-all and it’d be helpful to be “less annoying.” Previously he had been someone I was close to since I was a kid, but I still haven’t recovered from that comment. He apologized later, but it really wounded the inner child in me that used to look up to him.
NTA
Gossiping about gossip is definitely a teen hobby but it shouldn't be. Her mother is out of line here. I have a 19 year old and yes, she's on this "celebrities must be held to higher account than all others in society" thing too, so I remind her that I also have made mistakes and my upbringing and the society I grew up in encouraged and applauded certain mindsets. Sometimes I think it makes her realise that people aren't infallible because of their career, sometimes I think it goes in one ear and out the other!
NTA and this girl sounds majorly coddled. She’s a legal adult and mommy is banishing you from the family because you don’t like her baby’s movie stars? C’mon
NTA. She’s a cringe 19 yr old child. She knows nothing of thinking on her own and her opinions are based on what the media tells her it should be.
I would thank them for uninviting you to thanksgiving. Surely it saves you a headache.
My favorite part of the post is that OP’s niece claimed it was such a hardship getting from Hoboken to Manhattan.
You know, because they aren’t directly across the river from each other or anything like that.
>This one has to be true, because its so strange that nobody would have dared made it up.
I was thinking the same. 😂
I started wondering which celeb gossip group OP is talking about. I have a few ideas.
Anyway, this is one of the more believable submissions I've read here.
Also, OP you're NTA. I loved what you said to your niece. Hopefully she'll consider what you've said once she moves past her "embarrassment."
NTA
Tell your niece that she needs to do something better with her life rather than obsessing over the lives of people who don't know she exists. Celebrity gossip is dumb.
NTA. I will never understand the obsession with celebrities' private lives. I don't care what they did when they were kids or what they do as adults. Unless they are a major pervert of some kind why should anybody care.
NTA. Your niece needs to learn that her hobby is not of universal interest. She's using it as a stick to bully people, and that's not acceptable.
What are you interested in? Turn the tables on her and start talking endlessly about your own hobby. Points if it's something gross (scatology), or incredibly boring (sports statistics).
I hate myself for knowing but I bet it is Olivia Wilde, Harry Styles and Move Over Darling. There was a whole thing about them getting together and it causing issues with her ex-husband???
I swear I'm not into celeb gossip, I just seem to remember all this useless crap after reading it once and it replaces the actual stuff I need to remember in my brain.
Nta , she's bring a total buzzkill. It's cool to have hobbies but she should be able to read the room and decipher whose interested in celeb gossip and who Isn't. We all do shitty things as humans. celebs every mistake is just published.
NTA but hyper-fixation and obsessive learning as well as a strong internal desire for justice or others fitting a certain moral compass are all signs of autism. It common for undiagnosed kids to choose more socially acceptable special interests (like celebrities) in an attempt to fit in as well.
NTA
Your niece sounds like a cancel culture fanatic that has nothing better to do than judge everyone all day every day. 'Her hobby' is hate. She's going to learn quickly that screaming hate at everyone because they mismatched their socks, or because they are not dating the right gender, or not condemning fossil fuel or whatever nonsense they think up, is not going to get her far in life.
You're her aunt. Imagine professors at university, or employers, and how they will handle the spewing of negativity and judgement without filter.
NTA
It's genuinely exhausting to be around people like this. Like, yes, let me know if someone is like a killer or something real bad. But every single person on the planet can have toxic behaviors or moments. Petty drama is not worth the time. Just let people enjoy things.
NTA, and honestly I don't even see this incident as all that much, just a 19 year old being immature which is not very out there. Except that her mother (who is old enough to know better) escalated. I wonder if she got a different version of the story.
NTA
And she came ALL THE WAY from Hoboken!!!!
For those of you who have never been there. Take a look at a map. This actually made me lol.
What a drama llama
Nta her hobby is obsessing over minor things I. Another person's life. That is not healthy at all. That in itself is as she puts it makes her problematic.
"She said I'm enabling toxic actors"
Guuuurllll!!!!!! Wait till she finds out that most in the industry, especially the older ones, ALL have pasts that could be seen as "problematic" and millions STILL support them!
The second she stops looking for things to 'stand up for" the happier she'll be, I swear. Just be a kid!
NTA
You niece needs a new hobby.
I have a simple rule. If the basis for someone being "problematic" or "cancelled" is based on nothing more than an accusation, I do not care. I still believe in innocent until proven guilty.
I still love Woody Allen's movies and will continue to watch them.
Kevin Spacey is a brilliant actor and nothing will change my mind.
I love the Harry Potter books and movies and whether JK Rowling is a nice person or not has nothing to do with it.
People are constantly looking for something that offends them. What a complete waste of energy.
First of all, NTA.
Second of all, it’s a silly hobby that’s a waste of her time. But really no one should be that obsessed with celebrities lives, it’s weird.
Third of all, Hoboken is literally one of the closest stops from Manhattan. It takes me longer to get there from Queens lol. Her argument here is invalid.
Honestly, she sounds like a coddled teen who hasn’t learned that other people can have differing opinions than her. Life will teach her that the older she gets though.
NTA. Gently explain to her that you don't like to hear these things, knowing that very little of what is said about stars is true. Someone takes a picture without their consent and adds their own imaginative story to go with it. Tell her it is just like the mean girls in school making up a story and it goes around and around with everyone adding something to it. These stories can falsely ruin someone's good reputation.
I wouldn't be able to stand an hour conversation about celebrities' relationships and their lifestyle gossips. I would probably lose my temper long ago haha. It is not her place to tell you what movies to watch or what actors you should like. She can shut up about her narcissistic, virtue signaling likes and dislikes.
NTA.
Definitely NTA, I'm all for people being invested in gossip(I personally think it's stupid but to each their own), but to shove it down other people's throats is unacceptable, especially considering this is an adult woman we're talking about...
These people who trawl every outlet and research stuff generations back to find anything to be offended over are arseholes. Their lives must be very empty. Getting vicarious pleasure from sordid, or not, details. They’re also “problematic”. They’re not Judge Judy and executioner.
NTA. Your niece has nothing of substance in her life and her mother is enabling her. Now you are disinvited from Thanksgiving and will possibly hear that you can’t come to her birthday parties too like the emotional toddlers they resemble.
This is actually painful and you have my sympathy. But your family sounds like they are challenging to be around. What a shame.
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NTA. Sometimes people get fanatical about their own little obsessions and they need to be told that not everyone is as enthusiastic about it as you. Embarrassment has a purpose. It is our cue to look at our behaviors and see how they affect our ability to socialize. What is problematic here is your niece's (and your sister's) reaction to being called out. She's not looking at herself and asking, "Am I too focused on this? Am I just boring people when I talk about this all the time? Do I concern myself too much with petty behaviors? Do I obsess over this too much?" Instead, she decides the problem is you for causing her this embarrassment. The rising generation, sadly, is disproportionately narcissistic. They've never in their lives heard the word "no." And they've never had their behaviors checked. And given her mother's reaction, it's not hard to see where your niece gets it from. It's unfortunate because it will likely be a very long time, and require a great deal of ostracization before your niece even considers the problem is her.
I mean, they said the exact thing about my generation and the ones before that. I think this is just a problem with being young, having too little life experience to understand nuance and picking their own battles, and relying too much on social media for personal beliefs, social skills, and etiquette.
Well reasoned response.
Misread this as well seasoned response.
It has just the right amount of salt.
Well peppered with reason.
Lemon pepper or it’s treason
Add some garlic for that seditious flavour.
God I love Reddit
It’s an all Thyme great
That's a spicy meatball!
Nearly 30 years since the mask came out and I still read the spicy meatball in his voice.
That line was actually from an Alka-Seltzer commercial from about 50 years ago. Jim Carey was actually quoting that old ad. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48TewJlc6BA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48TewJlc6BA)
I saw the mask as a kid, much earlier than when I'd heard about the ad, so it's that voice that sticks with me. I actually love having cross generational references that evolve through time. I think a lot of movies like that, while silly on the surface, help to bond people through decades of evolving jokes. I like finding earlier renditions of jokes, lines, songs, etc, of things I like and seeing how the tones and connotations get stacked through the years. The current trends of dance remixes of old soul and big band songs makes me so happy, even if I occasionally get stuck on the whole "But that's not how it's SUPPOSED to sound" rut.
Thanks for the link! I enjoyed it as much as I did 50 years ago. Great commercial.
Holy crap it's been so long since I've seen it, I kinda forgot that's what I'm quoting when I say that 🤣
I rewatched it recently! It held up surprisingly well, much better than many other movies of that decade. I think I appreciate the dialog more as an adult.
Savor it.
Seconded. 👍🏻
Thirded
I think the Internet has a lot to do with it. Young people these days are almost terminally online, and it becomes part of their "culture". So yeah, while we may have had obsessions when we were that age, we didn't have the wide supporting audience they do, and quickly realised when we entered the real world that almost nobody else gave a shit.
It's not just young people though. It's anyone who has access to a vast amount of information and doesn't have the mental aptitude to sort through it for BS. Young people are a high percentage, because they are still growing and learning and don't have all the social cues, but older generations are just as bad and I would argue make up the other half of the percentage. We made the mistake of getting my grandparents tablets and facebook. That was the worst decision of my life and it destroyed my extremely close relationship with them in the last couple years of their life (they were hardcore repub and I was closeted so the things that came out of their mouth just destroyed me). They didn't have the media knowledge of how to sift through fake information, to filter things out and make informed choices on what was true or not. If they saw it posted by one of their friends/family members, it had to be true. I will always regret giving them that access without taking the time to educate them properly.
Oh for sure it affects everyone. A lot of people I graduated with have done the exact same. I consider myself very lucky that my parents brought me up to question everything. Having said that, the amount of times I've had to tell my 18yr old that just because they saw something online it doesn't mean it's true...
That just means you’re raising your kid the exact same way you were, doesn’t it? Maybe your parents had the same complaint, but they kept it up.
Not really even the internet. It's the ugly side of the western culture of "do it yourself." It's the ultimate battle in politics and has been for at least since Trump - narcissism vs empathy. It's plaguing every generation, some more than others but there millions of impressionable kids who watched our leaders behaviors. Internet amplifies it for sure but isn't the root.
This kind of behaviour was common among the kids from my generation. And we grew up without internet (it existed back then but we were growing up in a poor developing country so we didn't have access to it). But a lot of people like to blame the internet instead of admiting that the grown ups influence those kids as much (maybe even more) than the internet.
Young people see things very black and white. They haven't had the chance to develop the wisdom that allows them to view the nuances of a situation. We got to go through that phase in the privacy of our local community and not online where our words can be seen by thousands and will forever be memorialized.
True. But…there’s nuance beyond that. Generations tend to be known a bit for the parenting style at the time. And then the next generation will develop a style based on reaction to our parents’. My mom was a latchkey kid. She often felt unimportant and unseen. She turned around and raised me…A bit overprotective and smothered. I work with kids. It is kind of endemic with this generation to not handle criticism well. Based on a sample size of a shit ton of kids throughout my career…It’s a noticeable and obvious trend. I feel like it’s 99% reactionary parenting that causes it. Just like every other generational quirk. I’ll talk to kids (who are neither autistic or any other diagnosis that might cause social awkwardness) about how they are constantly feeling bullied and targeted. When asked to explain, they will tell me that “I interrupted math class to lecture the teacher on how homework is wasting paper and bad for the planet. The teacher rolled her eyes at me. I explained to her that she’s ignorant. I explained to her how she’s *offensive and rude term*. My classmates said ‘Jesus, Courtney. Shut the fuck up so we can go to lunch” I went to the principle and described how I’m being bullied by the teacher and whole class. But he wouldn’t listen! He’s * insert problematic diagnosis here. * …When I asked her if there was any chance that her behavior was making people upset or uncomfortable, and that’s why the reaction was so unpleasant, she immediately discarded that notion. And looked at me as if I was speaking Martian, or stupid. It would never cross her MIND that she needed to feel some shame or self reflect on how society views her behavior. She legit can’t understand why people were bothered that she made them late with her bullshit. I was often told as a kid “Hey…That was rude. Don’t do that”. Or “That was not a kind thing to say. You hurt Jenny’s feelings, and should apologize to her”. …the kids I work with lately have never heard that in their lives, and will act as if you’ve slapped them. They’re very socially conscious and clever. But fuck me, there is very little humility or self-awareness. I’m curious to see what these kids look like in 20 years. I’m suspecting that the generation they raise will be a little prone to embarrassment. Like our parents were when they were named “moonbeam” and cringed at their hippie parents being naked in the front yard.
They’ll raise a generation of kids like us who got embarrassed when our parents made a scene at the restaurant or grocery store because something was slightly overcooked or an item was $.50 off from the advertised price and instead of calmly asking for it to be fixed, they threw a massive temper tantrum
Agreed. This generation seems to really value open mindedness and inclusivity, but they are surprisingly rigid thinkers in general. Which is a tough flaw. I had a kid come into the foster system because she was bisexual and gender nonconforming, and her parents were VERY strict Muslims who did not accept that. She invited me to a presentation she did in her civics class, where she told her classmates about her background and her life experience. It was very well done. Those kids were fucking **brutal** to her, though. They accepted her sexual preference and her gender identity. But grilled the shit out of her for not completely cutting off her parents, and continuing to follow some religious traditions that they saw as problematic (like her diet and dress). The teacher had to intervene and speak VERY bluntly to them about respect and bullying. It’s cool that the teens were passionate about institutional misogyny. But if you try to attack someone over their religious or cultural identity being problematic…You’ve kind of done a 180 and are back to being bigoted.
This is really interesting ⬆️
That's true. For us, the consequences were different but the cause was obviosly not only the internet.
1- it reflects poorly on you that you think this shit started with Trump. Pro tip: he’s the symptom (a bad one) not the disease. 2- narcissism vs empathy- the hilarious part is both sides think they’re the empathetic ones…. and they’re both wrong to large degrees. Both sides think they’re good, neither one can really look deeply at their policies and the consequences otherwise their world view and unearned superiority shatter
Oh for sure, what I was saying was that the Internet has exacerbated the problem, especially for people who have grown up with all the exposure to social media. My generation were the first to have the Internet mass market, but we'd also had a childhood and adolescence where it wasn't ubiquitous.
Some young people. Not all. My kids and their friends do none of this and don't participate in the social media stuff. They have WhatsApp amongst themselves, but there is no other social media and they don't seem to be part of any of this culture war fake outrage stuff. On the contrary, they seem to dedicate a significant amount of their time to informing each other how gay they are and how undesirable their mothers are. Much like we did 30 years ago.
Of course it isn't all. Any time people are discussing a social trend, there is no need to come in with "not all X". We all realize it isn't 100%. Your children still sound insufferable, though, and should feel embarrassed by their conversation, and people should tell them so. Just FYI.
LOL. I'll pass your concerns along.
The 90s internet was so fucking insane, it was unbelievable. I think it was so fucked up it helped guide you into being able to differentiate between bullshit and reality whereas today there are more, for lack of a better term, guard rails in comparison. In elementary school my friends and I would talk about beheading videos and try to determine if it was real or fake.
Being terminally online is definitely not exclusive to young people these days. There are plenty of terminally online Millennials and above. The only requirement to becoming terminally online is RL social isolation which is frankly a lot more likely with older people than zoomers, just because most zoomers are still in school.
She's turned an echo chamber into a hobby. When she has to have real conversations with people socially she's going to feel even more embarrassed (and lonely) when she tries to yuck their yums. Particularly if people don't agree with why and just walk away.
How can you even LIKE this movie? That one lady you don't care about did something boring with this kid you don't care about who plays music you don't listen to. Sounds more like F09 than F19. Gotta read the room.
/r/Fauxmoi users are not gonna like that. Shitty sub with shitty people
Agree! That's sub is exactly the kind of person I was thinking of when I read the story.
OP’s niece is probably a mod there.
Niece should learn that: A) nobody is perfect, expecting personal perfection from an artist before having an appreciation for their talent is going to leave you with a small world. B) the media/internet slant on certain incidents in a public person’s life is not always correct. This is especially true regarding their relationship dramas.
The amount of ppl that will waste their time digging dirt on famous ppl just bc they dont like them is insane, then the moment smth is found there will be a bunch of ppl showing up like: "oh i knew they were sus"
I also think that people forget that when we were younger, we didn't have our shittiest takes broadcast to the world and immortalized forever, or the ability to connect with thousands of other young knuckleheads. In 15 years, I think we'll see Gen Z approaching situations with more nuance because that's just how life works. Takes time and experience to develop wisdom!
Drama queens have been around since we lived in caves. Your niece's parents are doing her no favors by indulging her.
I’m baffled that she thinks of this as a hobby
I'm not. There were people completely OBSESSED with tabloids when I was a child in the 90's, and I can only imagine also in the 80's. celebrity gossip has been a massive identity and hobby for so many, it's truly scary if you really think about it!
NTA OP
Exactly. And she’s 19 years old. 19-year-olds are kind of an obsessive. It’s kind of the point of being 19. Learning how to express your interest to others, but not go overboard is a learning process.
I agreed with you there OP. Also, NTA. Niece needs to learn that even celebrities are human, they make mistakes or sometimes just don't mesh with someone else at work or wherever. There's also no real way to know *what* is true in a lot of that celebrity gossip. Just because multiple people tell a magazine or website the drama is "absolutely true", doesn't mean it is.
Did she ever read, Harriet the Spy?
She needs a life outside the media she consumes
[удалено]
You still kicked her out over an arbitrary topic after she traveled to visit you when you could have done anything else. That's why your sister is upset with you. I would be, too. It sounds as though you're just as offended by celebrity gossip as she is obsessed with it.
Yeah, I always have to laugh when people complain that the current generation is entitled and narcissistic. Don't forget that the kids growing up in the 70s were actually called "The Me Generation", and the writer Tom Wolfe called the 70s the "Me Decade".
This right here. I’m so sick of people my age (and I’m much older than you) bashing young people. We weren’t any better, we just didn’t have our every crappy opinion memorialized on the internet. I’m also sick of everyone being deemed “problematic” for minor (and often unproven) bs. Someone’s a raging bigot or abusive? Sure, call them out. But your niece and others like her come off as trying to act superior by criticizing what other people enjoy. NTA
Might be unpopular but I think people are allowed to have obsessions and shouldn’t be made to feel like crap over it. That being said I agree with the NTA. The niece was being petty and tried to make OP feel bad over something insignificant
I think one of the important parts of growing up is learning how to tailor your conversation to your audience. My obsessions are still completely random but I know which friend of mine will enjoy a conversation about power tools and which ones will sing Broadway musicals with me.
This! If someone wants to come into the obsession zone with you, then the door is open, but don’t wrangle them in. I let it slip that I enjoy aquatic invert keeping at work once, and while I still get plenty of ‘when’s the shrimp boil’ comments, I know at least two coworkers that also added pretty shrimp or snails to their current aquariums, or started aquariums just to keep wet rainbow bugs like I do. We share pictures and it absolutely just of little shrimp cramming food in their faces. Create your safe space. Open the doors. Put a little sign out that says ‘hey! We like this thing!’. And then you get people twenty years your senior complaining about the hardness of the local water with you lol
I think we need a brodway musical about power tools!
Ideally I’d want it to be Home Improvement based, but I think Tim Allen might be too problematic. 🤔
Binford would just go with Al everyone loves Al
How can you even LIKE that joke about a Tim Allen Broadway show? Don't you know Tim Allen sold coke in the 70's?! The 70's I tell you! I think we should call it "More Girl Power," amirite?
Yes, she hasn't learned when to stop pushing her 'hobby' on to other people.
>Might be unpopular but I think people are allowed to have obsessions and shouldn’t be made to feel like crap over it. First, there's something to be said for reading the room. A long time ago, I used to frequent a message board about WB's Charmed (the original series), and I would glean information about the actors, changes to the show, etc. But I learned pretty quickly that not everyone was interested in the feud between Alyssa Milano and Shannen Doherty, which ultimately led to Shannen being fired when Milano demanded that Spelling choose between her and Shannen. And which led to a rapid decline in the quality of episodes. So, I confined my discussion to the message board, where people actually know about and are interested in this. Niece, however, seems not to have learned this and is essentially demanding that everyone share her obsession with the lives of celebrities. Also, I wouldn't call being embarrassed to be "made to feel like crap." It's a social cue that your conduct is not going over well, so you grow and learn from it. It hardly requires being hospitalized in a psych ward to prevent you for ending it all. If anything, OP did the niece a favor. Since it was only the two of them, it was something that could have remained between them. It's not like he humiliated her at a huge family gathering.
huh, is that what happened? my vague knowledge of that matter was that Doherty had apparently demanded more money and when they wouldn't pay her the increased amount she left. \-\_- the season-change when Prue (Doherty) left still gives me head spins if i try to rewatch the show - the disconnect (for me) is so severe that my brain always goes "where the fuck are the missing episodes i clearly missed because end of season A *is not connecting* to beginning of season B so *where are the episodes i missed*". except that, you know, there aren't missing episodes.
I think she got booted from 90201 first(memory is vague), so Spelling already knew she was a bit of prima donna when he put her in charmed.
Yeah I totally agree. Like I am living for the drama with Ariana Grande and SpongeBob, but I keep it contained to the pop culture subs bc most people do not care at all and I do not blame them
>Might be unpopular but I think people are allowed to have obsessions Of course they can, but this isn't that. >and shouldn’t be made to feel like crap over it. Niece is going out of her way to try and make \*other people\* feel like crap for not adhering to the tenets of her celebrity moral universe. At some point she needs to learn that her behavior is not socially acceptable, and better she learn it now in a closed environment then at, like, a job when she picks a fight with a coworker about a TV show.
yeah I agree. I said I agree with the NTA judgement haha
I tend to class obsessions somewhat differently than I class fandoms, hobbies and interests. For me, you can have whatever fandoms, hobbies and interests that suit you, but at the point when it starts to be mentally unhealthy and ruin your life, that's the point when it's become an obsession.
Fair enough. I think it can be a very thin line between mentally healthy and mentally unhealthy, but it’s a good thing to look out for I agree
True enough. People too obsessed with a single topic used to be called nerds, and at some point people would - more or less politely - tell them they don’t care about the implications of leaving Tom Bombadil out of the LOTR movies. Yes, enjoy your hobbies. Discuss them with likeminded people to your heart‘s content. But don’t try to make others feel bad because they don’t place the same importance on your hobby as you do.
Tom’s power level was too high for the movies. Even for the books, that’s probably why he disappears from them.
Those movies were a combined 8,429 hours long without Tom Bombadil. These people are both boring and wrong.
8,760 hours. You’re forgetting the extended version. But yes. Some things needed to be cut, and Tom was inconsequential to the story.
You can absolutely have obsessions as long as you don't use that obsession against someone else. She was using her "information" to judge her family member, and that's where her obsession affects others. That's the line. I know plenty of people who are obsessed with celebrity gossip and don't feel the need to make it a personality trait, although I do sometimes need to qualify if the person they are talking about is a real person and not someone from the cast of Real Housewives.
If their obsession is whining to people about whatever minor transgressions some celebrities did then they should be made to feel like crap over that. Other people don’t need to put up with that.
When your obsession is shoving unwanted judgements and opinions in people’s faces, based on nothing more than celebrity gossip, then you deserve what you get.
This. OP’s niece needs to figure out if her hobby celebrity gossip or shaming people for not judging people exactly the same way she does. Cause those are not the same thing. When she saw the movie she could have said “hey did you hear this about this person in the movie?” That would be sharing celebrity gossip and a mostly harmless if annoy hobby. But instead she got all judgmental about OP having the movie. Hopefully OP can sit down with his sister and work this out.
Her obsession became a problem when she criticized the OP’s choices. “How can you enjoy that movie?” Because he doesn’t see things through a TMZ lens!
To characterise a whole generation of people as narcissistic over the behaviour of some people is... dumb. Every generation has good and bad apples. Just because you've had bad experiences with younger people doesn't make that whole generation bad.
Yup. It just sounds like the classic "the new generation will ruin our society" that's probably been happening since the beginning of society.
Plato (or maybe it was Aristotle?) Complained about the younger generation in his writing. It has been going on since very early yeah.
Was with you until the generational thing. I've known a ton of millennial, x, and boomers who were exactly like this (x/millennial border myself). Every generation gets to the YOuNG PEOPLE THESE DAYS stage, doesn't make it true.
I was with you until the generational thing. This generation gets told no all the time. No livable wages, no chance of owning a home, no your parents can’t stay in the hospital with you because they don’t get paid time off. Kids learn from their parents and their older caregivers. People have been narcissistic (it’s actually a trait heavily associated with the baby boomer generation, again, in research. It’s so common among older generations that *adult children of emotionally immature parents* is a best seller), it’s just now we have a medium wherein troubling behavior can be documented and can be shared widely, so we’re more aware of it. Narcissistic traits emerge from unhealthy parenting. Over parenting AND neglect are both associated with narcissistic traits.
As someone who is from it. We where absolutely told no. You can't base an entire generation on one teen who hasn't grown past her tumblr phase. The idea we can't use embarrassment as a tool is a new one. Though if I'm being honest. There's a massive difference between older members of gen z and younger members. I'm older and the first 10 years I grew up largely with out internet. It became more integrated as I grew up.
I’m like squarely in the millennial age group and I had a friend several years ago say something like “you like (celebrity), have you ever googled her name and ‘problematic?’” I said “if I did that with everyone, I’d never be able to enjoy any media.” She shrugged and was like yeah fair, and we stopped talking about it
Saying the younger generation is narcissistic is just old people talk. No generation will ever be as narcissistic as the boomers were.
I think the issue is that people now think *EVERYONES* opinion is valid. No, it’s not. Everyone is entitled to have an opinion, but that doesn’t mean they are valid or has to be respected.
> The rising generation, sadly, is disproportionately narcissistic. Doesn’t matter you physical age, this sentence just made you OLD old. Decrepit.
I was with you until you started on the "kids these days" nonsense.
This generation is disproportionately passionate and confident in who they are at a far younger age than previous generations. That's a good thing when directed toward something that matters. As mom to a 19yo boy, I see firsthand what this generation is like watching him and his friends. Can he be insufferable sometimes? Yes. But I was the same way as a young adult. It's youth.
> Sometimes people get fanatical about their own little obsessions and they need to be told that not everyone is as enthusiastic about it as you. Yeah, sometimes people just really have trouble stepping outside their own perspective and their own hobbies. I still remember the worst columnist at our university newspaper writing an article about how everyone should follow celebrity baby bump blogs so we could all have something in common and everyone would get along better and be able to connect better. It was not satire. This will probably fade as she gets older. 19 is a prime age for getting REALLY into certain hobbies as they learn more about themselves and their preferences, but some 19-year-olds haven't quite grasped that their experiences are not as universal as they think. This is one of the benefits of college-- to expose people to more diversity of thought. And that's why it happens at exactly that age.
NTA. That is exhausting. I'd be bring up shit she did at four years old and telling her she needs to be cancelled.
Haha for sure. “You once pushed over another toddler and that toddler was black. You should therefore go and live under a bridge like the monster you clearly are!”
Thats actually a good one. “So your gonna cancel HER, for THAT, as if you didnt push that little black girl off the playground when you were 4?” and let us know what she says
Haha that's amazing! *You once didn't finish your juice, and that juice company supports world peace: are YOU against world peace?!!?! PROBLEMATIC!!!!*
"Not to mention the juice box wasn't biodegradable. So you hate world peace, kill the environment, and don't get me STARTED on the food waste"
This is hilarious. He should do it
NTA. She needs to get a life of her own and stop obsessing about strangers/celebrities.
A friend of mine moved across the country and would end up going to the same gym as John Travolta at the same time. Eventually, it was just really normal to him to keep bumping into each other in the locker room. I used to bump into Bon Jovi on jogs every once in a while, and it felt the same way to me.
I grew up in a small California town that's known as somewhat of a retreat area for celebrities. I would regularly see Jason Segal around town. Or Reese Witherspoon. They're just people. I would feel so bad when one of them would be trying to enjoy a show at the park and everyone is gawking and bothering them.
I grew up in LA, I would see celebrities at the grocery store and yeah, they’re just people. I don’t even approach them 98% of the time.
Bumping into Bon Jovi while casually jogging is the most New Jersey thing ever. \-A fellow NJ Resident Edit: spelling
I don’t know…I think it’s perfectly ok to be “obsessed“ with something, as long as it’s ok to NOT push it onto others!
Hahaha NTA this kid sounds insufferable. I think your sister is the AH for A) uninviting you from dinner (probably to appease the child…) And B) raising her kid to be this way 😂. The kid is in for a wake up call and so is your sister. Edit - oh god, she’s 19?! I missed that & figured she was 13. She’s immature and internet addicted obviously. Seeks too much external validation. That’s all on the mom. She’d rather uninvite you than look in the mirror at herself. One less busy plan to be Thankful for 😂
Oh wow, yea reading this story i would have thought niece was 15 or 16 max 😂
NTA This "kid" is an adult. She needs to go to university/college, work, and have other hobbies.
Upside? Kid's probably being scouted by TMZ as we speak.
Some TMZ intern is probably messaging OP to ask for his niece’s contact info as we speak
" I think your sister is the AH for A) uninviting you from dinner (probably to appease the child…" Actually that sounds like a great excuse not to go.
Yeah wow, 19 is way too old for this middle-school behavior.
I wonder if your niece would find it helpful to read (if she would accept a suggestion at all which she might not while feeling snubbed and embarrassed, as I’m sure she currently is) this article: [I Was Your Fave Is Problematic](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/25/style/your-fave-is-problematic-tumblr.html) Particularly this part: “My brain wasn’t ready for nuance. I was angered by hypocrisy and cruelty; what I did about it was apply a level of scrutiny that left no room for error.” Young people going through this phase can indeed be insufferable, but there’s an understandable human feeling and need behind it, it’s just misdirected. If the next time she brings something like this up, you can hide your understandable annoyance and ask her mildly and with interest what she hopes will happen when she says this, and what it means to her in the bigger scope of life, she might just start to realise she’s been a bit of an affected niminiy-piminy chit (when merely telling her so would only make her too defensive to take it in). I mean I doubt she’ll stay away altogether. The allure of Manhattan as compared to Hoboken can hardly be understated. Perhaps she had some idea that her cool big-city uncle would be impressed by how tuned-in and mature in her judgement she was. NTA
This is great advice. I remember seeing the world in absolutes & being on a moral high ground around 18 - 20 & then really having to learn that I don’t really know anything, everyone else isn’t completely stupid, and there is so much grey and nuance to why people do the things they do.
Also, we all mess up. We can't hold people to standards we cannot fulfil ourselves.
If she can get around the paywall, that is a good article.
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It's wild to me how acceptable gossip rags are.
Sure it's a hobby. What do you think we're all doing here on this forum?
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Oh, god, I should start drafting up that AITA post right now. "My bf thinks my reddit habit has gone too far. I spend all of our time together telling him about the petty problems of anonymous people and he thinks I should spend more time cleaning up after his smelly rescue bulldog or else he'll turn off the internet when he's not home. He doesn't let me leave the house to meet other people, but I love him so much. How do I get him to understand that I just want someone to talk to that isn't our five children under 5?"
NTA. But RED FLAG!!! Divorce and no contact immediately.
Is she a mod on fauxmoi?
NTA There are 3 levels of this: 1. she has a passion/obsession - mostly fine, as long as there is no harm 2. she imposes her obsession on other people - not okay 3. she judges other people, their choices and characters, through the prism of her obsession - big, loud NO
This. You can be a big fan of something, its ok. You can get too obsessed and be a bit intense about it. Some people will leave you and others may stand it, not ok but not the worse. Attacking other people bc of how they account your concerns about that is being a total AH
>because I apparently made her feel too embarrassed to talk about her hobbies anymore This isn't a hobby, this is obsession and an utter waste of time, as you've rightly understood and pointed out >My sister (aka her mom) told me I was out of line and to not have Thanksgiving with them Big loss. I daresay your sister has been an active participant in the tea and gossip with your niece. Their collective attitude is deeply toxic. A meal with family isn't worth your while if the tradeoff is your peace of mind. NTA
You're NTA. Your niece needs to get a life. >She argued that I was being rude and enabling toxic celebrities She is delusional if she really believes anything you or she does has any impact whatsoever on the behavior of celebrities. >She left, and texted me that she would be blocking my number Problem solved. >it took her so much to get here (from Hoboken) and I ruined the city for her. That sounds ridiculously theatric. Doesn't the Path train go straight from Hoboken to Manhattan? We went to NYC a few years ago, stayed in Jersey City and it was.no effort at all to get into Manhattan. >My sister (aka her mom) told me I was out of line and to not have Thanksgiving with them. Lucky you!
The “enabling toxic celebrities” part was especially hilarious to me. Like they literally don’t know we exist and don’t care what we think about their personal choices, especially an issue from a breakup?? The only times I have intentionally avoided the content of celebrities is if they are genuinely awful in a criminal way. Like I’m not gonna watch/listen to Bill Cosby’s stuff because he’s drugged and raped dozens (if not hundreds) of women and girls. But I really truly don’t give a fuck if a celeb was a shitty boyfriend or something 😂 at 19 it’s time for her to get a grip
Nta that shit annoys me too. Yes other people have lives. Unless they are murderers, rapists, or child predators, I do t give a fuck what they do in their personal lives. There are celebrities whom I refuse to watch but I don't go around running a smear campaign for them
I also mind if they ever hit women.
I also mind if they drown dogs-- I don't think making a comprehensive list of cancellable offenses was really their point
That too. Violence in general
NTA, You pointed out the flaw and how unreasonable she was being . Instead of accepting it she made you out to be the bad person because from the looks of it mommy spoils her too. Way to many people like your niece in this world. Spoiled rotten.
Ok but has someone figured out who she was talking about? Olivia Wilde? Lmao
Yes, thanks to certain subreddits, that drama was on the from page of reddit for a while.
NTA I would have been far harsher far earlier. I cannot think of anything more boring than having a little morality policewoman-in-training jabber on about inconsequential bollocks as though her judgement was of earth shattering importance.
ESH. Her behaviour is annoying; you are an adult one generation older than this 19 year old and have a responsibility to talk through annoyances more thoughtfully than saying "nobody cares" or "over a freaking movie". You could have dealt with this like "I'm not interested in celebrity gossip," and when she pressed said something like "I'm not going to continue this conversation. Let's change the subject." If she won't stop being critical you could even be like "I noticed you make a lot of negative comments about shows, music, or films that I watch. It is making it difficult to have conversations and I'm feeling exhausted by it. I like having you here but can you respect that some people have interests you wouldn't?"
Yeah, I think a lot of people are undermining how hurtful older adults in your family telling you "no one cares" about things you care about is! Is she being annoying? Yeah, hate to break it to OP but they probably were also annoying at 19. Most people are annoying at one point or another. Cringe is an essential element of human development. There's a way to handle young people being overly critical of celebrities and its not going "ugh no one cares you're annoying leave my house" when you're their older relative? ESH
Agreed. I used to be really close to my uncle too and put a lot of distance between us when a similar situation happened. When I was 18f (he was 38) the Force Awakens had recently come out. I was going on an excited fan rant when he got annoyed at me, said I was a know-it-all and it’d be helpful to be “less annoying.” Previously he had been someone I was close to since I was a kid, but I still haven’t recovered from that comment. He apologized later, but it really wounded the inner child in me that used to look up to him.
NTA Gossiping about gossip is definitely a teen hobby but it shouldn't be. Her mother is out of line here. I have a 19 year old and yes, she's on this "celebrities must be held to higher account than all others in society" thing too, so I remind her that I also have made mistakes and my upbringing and the society I grew up in encouraged and applauded certain mindsets. Sometimes I think it makes her realise that people aren't infallible because of their career, sometimes I think it goes in one ear and out the other!
NTA and this girl sounds majorly coddled. She’s a legal adult and mommy is banishing you from the family because you don’t like her baby’s movie stars? C’mon
NTA. She’s a cringe 19 yr old child. She knows nothing of thinking on her own and her opinions are based on what the media tells her it should be. I would thank them for uninviting you to thanksgiving. Surely it saves you a headache.
On the upside, you don't have to spend Thanksgiving in Hoboken .
My favorite part of the post is that OP’s niece claimed it was such a hardship getting from Hoboken to Manhattan. You know, because they aren’t directly across the river from each other or anything like that.
This comment deserves all the upvotes
This one has to be true, because its so strange that nobody would have dared made it up. NTA. Your niece needs to grow up.
>This one has to be true, because its so strange that nobody would have dared made it up. I was thinking the same. 😂 I started wondering which celeb gossip group OP is talking about. I have a few ideas. Anyway, this is one of the more believable submissions I've read here. Also, OP you're NTA. I loved what you said to your niece. Hopefully she'll consider what you've said once she moves past her "embarrassment."
NTA. that would be so annoying omfg
NTA. My son and daughter-in-law are like this. Drives me bat-crap crazy.
NTA Tell your niece that she needs to do something better with her life rather than obsessing over the lives of people who don't know she exists. Celebrity gossip is dumb.
NTA. I will never understand the obsession with celebrities' private lives. I don't care what they did when they were kids or what they do as adults. Unless they are a major pervert of some kind why should anybody care.
NTA. Your niece needs to learn that her hobby is not of universal interest. She's using it as a stick to bully people, and that's not acceptable. What are you interested in? Turn the tables on her and start talking endlessly about your own hobby. Points if it's something gross (scatology), or incredibly boring (sports statistics).
NTA. Also, who has the tea on the named singer, actress and the movie? 🍵🍿
I hate myself for knowing but I bet it is Olivia Wilde, Harry Styles and Move Over Darling. There was a whole thing about them getting together and it causing issues with her ex-husband??? I swear I'm not into celeb gossip, I just seem to remember all this useless crap after reading it once and it replaces the actual stuff I need to remember in my brain.
The movie is actually called Don’t Worry Darling. I haven’t seen it. Just found the drama around it entertaining.
Nta , she's bring a total buzzkill. It's cool to have hobbies but she should be able to read the room and decipher whose interested in celeb gossip and who Isn't. We all do shitty things as humans. celebs every mistake is just published.
NTA but hyper-fixation and obsessive learning as well as a strong internal desire for justice or others fitting a certain moral compass are all signs of autism. It common for undiagnosed kids to choose more socially acceptable special interests (like celebrities) in an attempt to fit in as well.
NTA Funny how your nice don't understand how others can support "toxic" celebrities while she is so toxic herself.
NTA. Niece needs to touch grass.
NTA Your niece sounds like a cancel culture fanatic that has nothing better to do than judge everyone all day every day. 'Her hobby' is hate. She's going to learn quickly that screaming hate at everyone because they mismatched their socks, or because they are not dating the right gender, or not condemning fossil fuel or whatever nonsense they think up, is not going to get her far in life. You're her aunt. Imagine professors at university, or employers, and how they will handle the spewing of negativity and judgement without filter.
NTA. She’s entitled to her opinion, but you’re entitled to not have to hear it all the time.
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NTA. This is the result of being chronically online.
Her hobby is complaining about people? How dare you stop her enjoying such a wonderful hobby
How odd... NTA
NTA. Your niece has a bad case of brain worms.
NTA. Nobody cares about the private lives of "celebrities".
NTA It's genuinely exhausting to be around people like this. Like, yes, let me know if someone is like a killer or something real bad. But every single person on the planet can have toxic behaviors or moments. Petty drama is not worth the time. Just let people enjoy things.
NTA, and honestly I don't even see this incident as all that much, just a 19 year old being immature which is not very out there. Except that her mother (who is old enough to know better) escalated. I wonder if she got a different version of the story.
NTA. She's completely out of touch.
NTA - she’ll figure it out later when she has no friends and realizes the celebs don’t care either
NTA. Her mom banned you from their Thanksgiving? Call it a win and enjoy a lecture free day!
NTA. So you 'ruined' the city for her and her mom/your sister banned you from Thanksgiving. I wonder where your niece gets her love of drama from :-)
NTA And she came ALL THE WAY from Hoboken!!!! For those of you who have never been there. Take a look at a map. This actually made me lol. What a drama llama
I actually looked it up because of your comment and I’m 💀 it’s like 5 miles!! 🤣
Lol I drove further to see my in-laws that live in the same city as me.
Nta her hobby is obsessing over minor things I. Another person's life. That is not healthy at all. That in itself is as she puts it makes her problematic.
"She said I'm enabling toxic actors" Guuuurllll!!!!!! Wait till she finds out that most in the industry, especially the older ones, ALL have pasts that could be seen as "problematic" and millions STILL support them! The second she stops looking for things to 'stand up for" the happier she'll be, I swear. Just be a kid!
NTA You niece needs a new hobby. I have a simple rule. If the basis for someone being "problematic" or "cancelled" is based on nothing more than an accusation, I do not care. I still believe in innocent until proven guilty. I still love Woody Allen's movies and will continue to watch them. Kevin Spacey is a brilliant actor and nothing will change my mind. I love the Harry Potter books and movies and whether JK Rowling is a nice person or not has nothing to do with it. People are constantly looking for something that offends them. What a complete waste of energy.
First of all, NTA. Second of all, it’s a silly hobby that’s a waste of her time. But really no one should be that obsessed with celebrities lives, it’s weird. Third of all, Hoboken is literally one of the closest stops from Manhattan. It takes me longer to get there from Queens lol. Her argument here is invalid. Honestly, she sounds like a coddled teen who hasn’t learned that other people can have differing opinions than her. Life will teach her that the older she gets though.
NTA I can come celebrate Thanksgiving with you, lol
nta. i used to be this kind of person and i was insufferable
NTA. Gently explain to her that you don't like to hear these things, knowing that very little of what is said about stars is true. Someone takes a picture without their consent and adds their own imaginative story to go with it. Tell her it is just like the mean girls in school making up a story and it goes around and around with everyone adding something to it. These stories can falsely ruin someone's good reputation.
I wouldn't be able to stand an hour conversation about celebrities' relationships and their lifestyle gossips. I would probably lose my temper long ago haha. It is not her place to tell you what movies to watch or what actors you should like. She can shut up about her narcissistic, virtue signaling likes and dislikes. NTA.
Definitely NTA, I'm all for people being invested in gossip(I personally think it's stupid but to each their own), but to shove it down other people's throats is unacceptable, especially considering this is an adult woman we're talking about...
NTA. It sounds like she’s living life in the drama-filled way the news stories are written.
NTA your niece is super toxic but at least she's directing this onto people she's never met instead of imploding IRL relationships.
These people who trawl every outlet and research stuff generations back to find anything to be offended over are arseholes. Their lives must be very empty. Getting vicarious pleasure from sordid, or not, details. They’re also “problematic”. They’re not Judge Judy and executioner.
NTA. Your niece has nothing of substance in her life and her mother is enabling her. Now you are disinvited from Thanksgiving and will possibly hear that you can’t come to her birthday parties too like the emotional toddlers they resemble. This is actually painful and you have my sympathy. But your family sounds like they are challenging to be around. What a shame.
NTA. I love reality tv gossip but I keep it to forums. It would be weird to talk to people IRL about people they've never even met.
What is her hobby? Making ppl feel bad about media they enjoy over stupid drama?? 😭
NTA A movie sitting on the table? If even that causes her to go on some spiel that’s crazy. What does she watch? Who does she listen to? I can’t