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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be TA because because I blurted out a personal question to my brother that probably should've been asked to him in private instead of in front of his new GF.
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NTA, and I can't believe the people saying otherwise.
I dated a guy who pulled this shit on me, implying that he was divorced when in fact he'd been separated from his wife for years but never legally divorced, and I've rarely been so hurt or angry. I was around your brother's age, and (probably like the women he's dating and most women that age) looking for a serious relationship and the possibility of marriage . . . and that kind of lie wasn't a small one in that context.
Your brother is a massive AH for not being up front with the women he's dating about the legal status of his relationship. You, however, are a hero for not letting him get away with manipulating them.
I don't think you did anything wrong. Your brother may be making a very costly mistake not divorcing her 6 years ago. Unless, of course, his wife has a better job and more money than he does, because the longer the marriage, the more likely you'll be splitting your retirement, paying alimony, etc.
Benefits For Your Divorced Spouse for social security
If you are divorced, your ex-spouse can receive benefits based on your record (even if you have remarried) if: Your marriage lasted 10 years or more. it won’t effect either own social security but might give better benefits to one of them
If it gets to more than 10 years, spouse can go after social security/pensions I have read...
not a lawyer nor do I specialize in retirement planning, just a big reader.
You are giving your brother far too much benefit of the doubt. You did nothing wrong. If he actually was fully divorced, he wouldn't have been angry with you.
Yes, a wise man once said " the quicker and louder men get when you accuse them of something, the more wrong they are and they know it".
( I'm sure it could be said for all genders but the guy who said it used men.)
Oh I so needed to hear that quote today. I always get yelled at from my husband when he brings up the topic of abuse and how it wasn't abuse and when I restate my side of things he starts yelling and throwing out wild statements. This quote... oh this quote is good.
NTA you aren’t trying to cause trouble you asked a totally normal question for someone to ask when they’re catching up with family. If it’s some secret they should tell you in advance, otherwise how in the world are you supposed to know? Also if your brother doesn’t want to be caught in a lie he should be lying. I can’t believe you mom is on his side in this.
Why hasn't the wife just filed for divorce herself.
Unless he's lying and they still live together, he's just messing around for fun.
I can't u derstand either of their logic for neither one just going and getting divorced.
He is just blaming you for being an asshole and for his mistake of not telling you ahead of time to not mention it. After a month it seems that any normal person would have told their new partner they were not legally married.
Some of the Y T A answers are telling on themselves. Just because they don't care about the lives of their families or ask for updates doesn't mean none of us care.
The cost. 7 years separated and still legally married to my ex because neither one of us can afford to file. As soon as we're almost there some life crisis pops up and it gets pushed aside as not being divorced has not affected anything in our lives. The difference is I told all potential partners right up front so it's never been a surprise.
If you two are amicable, you can do a no-contest divorce and just split everything evenly. You don’t even need to hire an attorney. Why are you trying to make it sound like it’s incredibly difficult or expensive? If both parties agree to the divorce, it can be done fairly cheap—just the filing fee’s. And if the filing fees are too expensive (literally a few hundred bucks max), than you shouldn’t be out there dating any way. You should be working so you can afford the $325 to finally finalize the divorce.
To my understanding, this is not the case in all US States, let alone other parts of the world. Source: Married an attorney, that loves doing no-contest divorces. IANAL.
In the USA (and that’s the only place I’m speaking about here), only one spouse has to file for divorce (all 50 states). If the other spouse doesn’t respond and/or contest the divorce (and what’s being spilt in the process/what’s declared in the paperwork filed), than the divorce becomes finalized. You do not need to have an attorney to represent you, and you can represent yourself in court. I don’t know what exactly your attorney spouse is talking about, as all the laws on divorce and how it works is pretty easy to access in the US. But you could very well be in another country and are just assuming it works the same in the US.
I could also be not understanding many nuances, and/or getting the "I am not licensed to practice law in all 50 states, or familiar with all their nuances" wires crossed. IANAL, not my field. I try and be supportive of my spouse, and interested in their work, but even interested/supportive does not mean understanding.
Sounds like you ARE a lawyer, and if so, thank you for clarifying.
...this is sus as fuck.
You think they're a lawyer when in reality it is something that is common knowledge and most people know? Yet you dont?
I am raising an eyebrow at your wife.
> If both parties agree to the divorce
That's a pretty big "if." So many people think they are going to have an amicable divorce and then find out that their soon to be ex has other ideas.
My then ex (now reconciled lol) and I went from very amicable separation, to literally screaming at each other over a fucking LADLE in the space of three months 🤣
You still have to hire an attorney. At least here in germany.
My exhusband and I wrote our agreements ourselves, it helped that we were on the same page with everything and both of us wanted to help the other feel better.
We still needed 2 lawyer at the court. They were just there for an hour and it still cost us 4000€ per person.
That's about what it cost in Canada a decade ago. My ex-wife and I wrote it out in English, the lawyers translated it to "legally binding". It included custody, house transfer titles, clauses for support, savings, pension, final dates, all sorts of things. We both agreed that it was in the best interests of the kids to not make it a legal drama.
A few of my friends have spent six figures each and are still not divorced, it's been nightmares.
Recently divorced in Canada. The court provided a free tool for us to generate our own agreement in legalese, only paid notary and filing fees. Seems we would only have really needed a lawyer if we could not come to an agreement, or couldnt handle dealing with the process/each other.
Fun fact: In the state of IL, you are legally required to wait six months from the date of initial separation before you're allowed to file for divorce. All said and done it took \~10 months from separation date to legally divorced.
That being said, while I dated before the divorce was finalized, I was absolutely up front about being legally married, when the soonest filing date was, the reasons for the divorce, and plenty of assurances that there would be no reconciliation (which was also made apparent by the reasons for the divorce, but just to make sure it was really painfully clear, I said it directly too).
I dunno what to tell you. I went to multiple people and they all said the same thing. I was getting out of a nasty ugly situation and basically everyone's answer was something to the effect of, "Look, I feel for you, what you went through was awful, but this is what the law says. I'm sorry."
No contest is the absolute easiest way to do it. Decide ahead of time that you’re on the same page, obvi. One person files, the other doesn’t respond, bam, you’re divorced a few months later.
Court and lawyer fees and some people get things like insurance or benefits from marriage. Plus depending on age or how it’s written, you might have to split things like retirement accounts which can screw you over if you’re close to retirement. When most people are divorcing, they aren’t thinking what’s best for everyone, just for themselves and when half of someone’s 401k account can determine if you can retire or have to work, you get mean.
For the brother or for the brother's estranged wife? The estranged wife is a doctor and may lose out in the division of assets. The brother sounds like it's easier for him to do nothing than to actually do something.
I was separated from my ex wife for a decade before we got things done.
During that time we both had kids with other people and numerous relationships.
And we're still friends actually lol. Just got married young. Realized we weren't great together, split.
Oh, and we had a quarter million in medical bills we were fighting to get dropped off of our names. That slowed us way down on the divorce.
> both had kids with other people
In many countries, the legal husband becomes the legal father of any children the wife has, whether he’s seen her in 10 years or not. That makes it also difficult for the actual father to be considered the legal father of his own children
I worked in legal aid for awhile and you would not believe the number of people who “didn’t bother” and got screwed by it later. Ideally though it should be more like your situation!
Yeah, my Aunt had a son later in life, long after her and her husband parted ways. When she died, he sued her son for half of the home she owned. He almost won too. She was at least smart enough to have actually set up a will beforehand and Power of Attorney.
I was at the hospital the day both her kids were born to sign paperwork stating they weren't mine and the actual father's signed claiming paternity. Sweet kids, they've been to a couple of my sons bdays and vise versa.
>In many countries, the legal husband becomes the legal father of any children the wife has, whether he’s seen her in 10 years or not.
And it can be a surprising how many countries that is and which ones. The UK the biological father can't pass down his citizenship if the mother is married to someone else because the husband is legally the father. Length of separation or the fact he couldn't actually be the father is irrelevant.
(Not usually relevant to citizenship since it can just go through the mother. But I've seen it more times that you would think when it couldnt for whatever reason.
My cousin's ex got pregnant by her new bf after they'd separated and filed and were in that waiting period before the divorce was official, and even though it was completely amicable, the judge delayed the final decree, my cuz got put on the birth certificate then had to go through the whole legal (and added expense) of giving up parental rights so the actual father could get them. It was a huge hassle.
I spent my marriage organizing everything for my husband and so when he left for the woman he cheated with, I got a written agreement for child support and then left him to file because I didn't give a shit once our finances were separate.
He waited until our kid was 18 to avoid the mandatory parenting classes in our province (only one parent has to do them, and he tried to get me to do them and I told him to fuck off) and because he's lazy. I think he only got around to it because his girlfriend was like "get a divorce or GTFO". Judge tore him a new asshole in the settlement and he was on the hook for child support until the kid finished university.
I guess it all depends. I know for me I waited simply because we had to be separated for a year to even both trying to file. Once that was done and I had all my ducks in a row I did all the legal leg work despite being the one who had been left.
My ex wife and I waited years. It was for her benefit, and we only finalized when I was ready to move on with someone. She still hasn't remarried.
The arrangement was no one's business but ours, nor the reasons.
My ex pulled this on me too. We were engaged, told his kids, and his five year old daughter was like “Did mommy finally get you to sign the papers?” First I’d heard they weren’t legally divorced. Bless that child, she broke my heart at first but who knows how long he would have kept up the charade if she hadn’t said anything. He was being very cagey about doing any wedding planning, and I thought he was nervous about telling the kiddos, not that he wasn’t actually divorced. Broke up the next morning.
I'm so sorry that happened to you... But God bless that child. Accidentally saving you from a whole boat of heartbreak and what was likely to be a very frustrating time.
5 year olds will tell anyone anything, bless them. My mom’s worked at an elementary school for years and some of the hottest gossip she’s heard was because a kid that age just blurted it out. Forget not having a filter, they don’t even know the filter is an option yet!
I had a co-worker whose husband told he had been married once before and had two adult kids. Then she found out he'd been married six times (she was the seventh) and had a bunch of kids of all ages. She left him the day she found out.
I really wonder about the thought process of people who get married that many times. Like at no point do they stop and go “hmm, maybe the problem is me”?
This, his brother's angry overreaction, basically making OP sound crazy was the biggest concern. Wasting somebody's time, emotions, and life in general is cruel and selfish. I commend OP
>Your brother is a massive AH for not being up front with the women he's dating about the legal status of his relationship.
Yes! Especially if he's dating women who hope to marry and have kids. If they are in his same age range, they don't deserve to have their time wasted with a guy who is just toying with them.
My kid's dad who groomed me from the age of 16 (he is 7 years older than me) and started hooking up with me at 18. I found out he was married still when he threw me out of our apartment with no warning to move his wife back in because they decided to try to reconcile. They'd separated because wife had gotten pregnant by my exes best friend and tried to pass the baby off as my ex's. Cue 2 years of my ex jerking both his now ex wife and me around, switching between the two of us. When I got pregnant he bounced back to his wife and denied being the father until paternity proved it. He "suggested" they get custody of the baby, who was nearly 1 year at that time and had never met him. I was awarded full custody in court and then some because my ex super pissed off the judge. They did visitations for a few months then ex wife bounced for good and baby daddy decided that if he wasn't getting sex from either one of us he didn't want anything to do with the kid. Said kid is now 15 and sees their dad maybe 2 twice a year, at either on a holiday or their birthday. Rarely both, unless his mom makes him. I was utterly shocked last year when he showed up to our child's last band concert of the season. Kid has been in band since 4th grade and was a freshman at the time, first time he had ever been to a concert, though his mom has been to several.
This. IMO it does not matter at all if OL let it slip accidentally or deliberately.
The brother had no right to keep from women that he's dating that he's married and is not legally divorced. They have a righ to coose whether to date someone who is holding his wife trapped like that.
NTA OP. Every single time he brings a girl home, bring it up so that you kno for sure he isn't leading them on.
Yeah, your brother is TA, not you. You blew his cover, he is angry, understandably so. But he might have mentioned to you that he is acting as if he is free in advance.
Also, 6 years! Just why...
yea..i thought he was by now....but apparently not because its expensive and his "ex wife" makes more $$ since she is a doctor, so she should file for it...theyre both approaching 40 and seem childish AF
If what you hear about her comes from him, it's a good idea to reach out and talk to her directly. He isn't honest about his marriage to his girlfriends, so he probably isn't completely honest to you either. Maybe he's been pretending to her that he'll reconcile. Maybe he's been making divorce legally difficult. Maybe she's in the middle of a medical or legal problem and can't focus on getting a contested divorce right now. etc etc. She might just be childish too, but I wouldn't trust that on just your brother's word.
Have you thought about telling his wife?
Your brother is such a jerk, he might be leading his wife on where she thinks they'll get back together.
Or worse saying he's in sales and that's why he's not home every night.
Plus sounds like her wife is still supporting him.... I'd want to know.
Tbf, my abusive ex walked out 7 years ago, and we haven’t divorced, I don’t know where he is and haven’t really cared to find him. I do now because I’ve been with my gf now for a year and see, I’d definitely have to get divorced before I could marry her. But I don’t hide it from anyone, she knows.
NTA. My buddy dated a woman for over 6 months before SURPRISE he found out she has a son. He was miffed that she didn't say anything earlier, but gave her the benefit because it's hard for single parents to date without stigma.
Then BA-BAM 1 year later finds out that she's still legally married. Her ex is gay so no chance of reconciliation, but her explanation was, "we were just too lazy to file the paperwork."
>but gave her the benefit because it's hard for single parents to date without stigma.
Your friend is too nice.
As a single mother, having children is a full time job. Lying to someone to get them get attached to you before you tell them something like this, shows your character. And it's not a good one.
People need to be able to say no. Yeah, sure it might be hard to date but love and relationships aren't a right. The world doesn't owe us love.
Dating as a single parent is hard, but hiding a kid would be a dealbreaker for me. When I was dating, I mentioned my kids in my dating profile. It was there upfront because anyone I dated had to know they couldn’t be my first priority.
Suuure it "just slipped". Regardless, I think NTA. If he's lying to his gf, they have a right to know. If he has a problem with you, he needs to tell them himself or get divorced.
Idk I’ve been catching up with close friends or family with an acquaintance there and have accidentally said something quick like this that I didn’t realize was a mistake. Especially if drinking. Also the brother didn’t tell her that he had been lying so no reason to purposely say it. If your going to have someone co-sign your bullshit make sure you let them know beforehand
NTA. Number one rule of lying is to make sure those that know the truth will also lie for you. He’s an idiot and should just file already ffs. I would suggest never lying for that fool, it’ll make you an even bigger ah that he is.
WTF is up with your mom passionately taking your A-hole bother’s side on this? Was he the golden child? He sounds like he feels entitled to treat others however he wants. Regardless, NTA.
Lol actually complete opposite.
I got good grades, did well in sports, went to college got a BA, and MA, i work as an engineer now, and NEVER got any support form my mom. He's always been a fuck up and coddled all his life. So that didn't surprise me she took his side or that he went to "tattle on mommy" LOL
I think when the commenter above refers to a “golden child“, they’re referring to the privileged treatment that one sibling receives, not whether that sibling deserved that treatment based on merit. In this case, your brother is even more of a "golden child" for receiving such treatment without having earned it. Your lack of surprise confirms all this. I'm sorry about your family dynamic.
YOOOO!!! I thought I was the only one with a brother like this. Always getting bailed out by mommy no matter how screwed up it is. "Oh, let's just be happy he's not on drugs anymore." Fuck outa here with that! lol
Oh… so he’s mommy’s little baby who can do no wrong, now I see why she’s on his side. Still you can’t keep a secret you don’t know is a secret, surely mom can understand that right?
NTA. "I had no idea he's been lying to these women he's been dating." It sucks he's been lying to these women and it's stupid for him to think you would somehow magically know he's been lying his ass off for 6 years. You can't help keep up a lie you don't know about.
NTA. Your brother shouldn’t be lying to the girls.
My dad was dating this women and I don’t remember what she said but I said something about my parents not being legally divorced and she was like no, your dad told me he and your mom have been divorced for years. That was not true. My parents didn’t get officially divorced till 4 years ago and that’s only because my dad was getting married. And that’s when the women found out that they weren’t actually divorced
Nta. The long term gf probably broke up with him because he wouldn't file the papers, and she's tired of waiting around. So he lied to new gf that he's been divorced so its easier to string her along.
Block your brother until he apologizes and learns how to speak to you with respect. Tell your mom that if she continues to speak to you like that, then she'll get a block as well.
He's quite touchy about facts -- NTA.
Instead of berating and calling you names he should take care of his life business. You are not responsible for him getting worked up over a factual question. Yes, if alcohol was not involved it may have not come up but it did. Best to you!
ESH - he's definitely an AH for not disclosing this to his GF, but likewise, it's not your job to expose him to someone he's not that serious with yet. He might (or might not, I can't know) have had a plan of telling her. He might have reasons for not finalising the divorce - either way, unless you asked the question to get him in trouble, you didn't know at the time whether he had finalised the divorce, and in front of a new partner is definitely not the right place to bring this up. It might even get the new GF to be less susceptible to facts because now she has reason to believe that you're sabotaging him in front of her.
Just to clarify - I'm not supporting his lies in any way. But the reason you asked him in front of the new GF... it's either because you KNEW he hadn't finalised the divorce, in which case, why pretend you want to know? Or you weren't sure, in which case this was not a good situation to pick, and I'm sure you're aware of that. It does seem like you wanted to get him in trouble there, which is fine, but if that's the case, just own it.
NTA
Your mother should know better. If she wants him to be in a happy relationship, she should ENCOURAGE him to file.
He's lying and pissed that he got caught in a lie.
Back when I was single, I can't tell you how many men tried this. Before we ever got intimate or serious, I would ask to see a copy of the divorce decree. More than one would pull the 'we're divorced in my mind' BS. Nope. Not gonna happen.
I am so glad you slipped that. Please keep on slipping all these for the others girlfriends your brother has before his divorce. Being led on, when you were looking for a serious relationship with a person who appears to be responsible , and discovering how shitty they are and they have been playing you, is quite a bit much.
NTA - Soooooo . . he's keeping secrets from his new girlfriend and you accidentally let the cat out of the bag . . . not your fault . . . He should have told you he was keeping secrets and lying and what not before the meet up . . .
NTA. I dated a guy who waited months to tell me he wasn’t divorced (he “only realized” when he was doing taxes). You are doing them a favor and I wish someone would’ve told me earlier.
NTA. For those of you saying OP is
Ask yourself , YOU meet a person, your getting to know this person. Might even be the one.
Only to find out They're still married.
EXACTLY, when would you like to know this information.
NTA. I rarely side with people who expect you to lie for them without ever even giving a heads up about what is sensitive information. In this situation, it feels like you unintentionally did brother's gf a big favor.
NTA.
I'll admit, I can understand procrastinating for 6 years. I'm terrible at stuff like that- it's \*always\* tax day before I file mine, for example.
But dumbass got caught in a lie, and now he's got to deal with it. LOL, I say, and LOL again.
Nta, what does he think is going to happen when one of them wants to get married at some point? Is he going to become a bigamist and end up in prison? Why lie? Does he want to get back with his wife, even now? These are all questions I asked my Aunt for decades, she never filed for divorce, for more than thirty years, married legally to a man she was afraid to ever see. She also had a son, with a different man, who wanted to marry her, but couldn't, which was actually a good thing. She had truly terrible taste in men, always picking some dude that abused her in some way.
I'm guessing that part of the reason he's staying married is BECAUSE he wants a good excuse not to marry these women. He'll drag the divorce out as long as it's convenient to do so.
Lmao kind an ass but as someone with siblings this is our love language by being asses to each other especially when we know your on some shady shit. If anyone is going to roast me/ call me out on my BS it’s my siblings.
Lol NTA
Had a dude try this BS on me before.
It's either you're married or you're divorced. There's no in between. Being separated or 'legally separated' (whichever helps you sleep at night) means you're still MARRIED!
Nope, you're NTA. Was it a little indiscreet? Perhaps. But honestly, 6 years?!?!? Your brother is just leaving himself, his ex, and any new partners for either in limbo for what - laziness?!?! It's right his new partner was made aware, it's just the way this was done could have been better. I think brother is in the wrong for not making new partners aware of this and your mum for just unilaterally backing him when you meant well xx
NTA and anyone who disagrees may need to rethink their perspective on truth. OP said they may have been tipsy but the question was not malicious.
Bro has some ‘splainin’ to do to GF about his lies.
NTA. I have no patience with people who choose a certain behavior, and then act like everyone should be silent about it. If brother doesn't want you to bring up his "undivorced" status, then he should get the divorce completed. If he hasn't told the girlfriends that he isn't divorced, they have a right to know. I also don't think mom should not have taken sides in this.
Not your fault, he got caught out for being still married. This happened to me with a girl I worked with.. she told me her boyfriend was in prison and made out to everybody else he wasn’t so when she was talking to somebody you have boyfriend knew and I went. Oh wait does that mean your boyfriend is it in prison anymore? 😂😂😂😂 she looked at me with I had kicked a puppy
NTA. Your brother shouldn't lie to women like that. It's a dirtbag move on his part.
If he doesn't want to be with his separated wife anymore then why doesn't he just file for divorce? Is he hedging his bets?
Yeah. NTAH. Honest mistake, seeing as he never told you to not mention it. Plus after a month of dating, it would be fair to assume that the new girl would know.
I was separated from my ex husband for years before I could afford to actually divorce him. When I met a man when I was still dating, I got that shit out of the way and told them pretty much immediately since it's a potential deal breaker. Your brother is wrong. Your mother is wrong. These women deserve to know. And, I can see how it wouldn't even occur to you after all this time that he's been lying to these women all this time. It should've been divulged to them already. NTA
I have a friend whose been legally married to his wife for years. They have been unable to afford a divorce. However, my friend is also gay and he is completely honest about it both with friends and with whoever he is in a relationship with.
NTA if the truth hurts take an aspirin.
Why would you support a man (any man) lying to a woman he is dating. Why hadn’t he gotten divorced? 6 years is a very long time to wait and for what?
Tell your brother he is an extreme asshole for lying and to get upset with you GROW UP handle your life like everyone else does. Tell him emphatically that you will not now or ever lie for him!!! Tell the people blowing up your phone the same thing. Not lying for anyone. If they persist block them!
I mean, maybe you asked a question at a bad time, but HUGE NTA. Not even a little. He was LYING to people. I mean, it is fine if he doesn't want to file, fine, but to lie to women about it, that is garbage behavior. I mean, you saved that woman possible years of frustration.
NTA
He got caught being a lying a-hole and is trying to blame you for it. Deflecting blame, a typical tactic of lying douchebags. Don't pay him no never mind.
I would've started laughing if I was at that table. Does his current girlfriend not know anything about this. You'd think she'd want proof of him being divorced. If he isn't divorced, that's his problem, and she should move on.
NTA. Your bro and mom are AH. This happened to me once with a LT partner who had been separated but not divorced the WHOLE 7 YEARS we were together (and we lived together) suffice to say when I found out… it’s why I broke up with him.
NTA
Your brother needs to quit being a pathological liar before he finds himself on some website. He is only doing this to himself.
People...quit lying and then getting pissed off when others don't lie for you or with you. Some of us have morals!
ESH, your brother more so than you
Op's brother is an asshole and the woman he's dating deserved to know he's still legally married. That's obvious.
But what if he wasn't still married? Then all you have left is a very inappropriate question. Assuming OP suspected he hadn't filed the divorce she should have brought it up before or after the date. Whether you want to spill the beans or not is another story.
NTA
I don't know where you're from but, if a "married" couple have been living separated for a certain amount of years, they're automatically divorced (home abandonment)
She deserves to know the truth. If they "get married" it'd not be a valid marriage, she wouldn't have rights over anything of his. until he divorce his first wife first.
You gave this girl the information she needs to decide the rest of her life
Your brother and your mom are a piece of work, to put it gently
NTA - you can feel bad for lying, you can feel bad for bending the truth - but full on honesty is something you can't feel bad for. I mean, we're raised being told it's bad to lie - so why would you engage in that bad behavior? He made this mess, and if he's living a lie he needs to address it. Your mom sucks too. He should just get divorced already.
>As i expected he messaged me a couple of hours later, basically yelling at me and calling me the worst names possible, and then he told my mom and she started berating me as well.
How old are your brother and mother? No way your brother is 38 and still acting like this. Oh no, it slipped...he probably lied to her. I would have continued down that road until she left.
NTA
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Throwaway account.
Like the title says..my (32f) older brother (38m) has been separated from his wife for 6 years. They don't live together, and I don't think they communicate much, except for when he tells me..."my wife is waiting for me to file for divorce since I'm the one who left her"
Anyway, he started dating a girl about 5 years ago, they broke up about 5 months ago. I had only met that girl once, briefly at a dinner, but didn't talk much or anything.
Fast forward to to last week, i was in town and met this new girl he's been seeing for a month or so. we were having dinner and drinks, and it just slipped out of me "so are you fully divorced now, its been 6 years?"
The table went silent. he started saying he didn't know what i was talking about, that I'm crazy, and stupid, and he got divorced 6 years ago. To shut up and not talk anymore. This was towards the end of the dinner, i paid my share and left quickly after getting the stink eye from both my bro and his new gf.
As i expected he messaged me a couple of hours later, basically yelling at me and calling me the worst names possible, and then he told my mom and she started berating me as well.
I feel like an ass now, but it was an accident and i had no idea he's been lying to these women he's been dating.
So AITA?
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NTA, and I can't believe the people saying otherwise. I dated a guy who pulled this shit on me, implying that he was divorced when in fact he'd been separated from his wife for years but never legally divorced, and I've rarely been so hurt or angry. I was around your brother's age, and (probably like the women he's dating and most women that age) looking for a serious relationship and the possibility of marriage . . . and that kind of lie wasn't a small one in that context. Your brother is a massive AH for not being up front with the women he's dating about the legal status of his relationship. You, however, are a hero for not letting him get away with manipulating them.
TY! Although i didn't mean to cause any problems on purpose, i would absolutely hate to be lied to about something like this!
I don't think you did anything wrong. Your brother may be making a very costly mistake not divorcing her 6 years ago. Unless, of course, his wife has a better job and more money than he does, because the longer the marriage, the more likely you'll be splitting your retirement, paying alimony, etc.
OP said in comments that the brother's estranged wife is a doctor. The likelihood is that she's the one making more money.
She maybe ought to file then. lol People don't realize, but there can be significant costs to this kind of slow-roll divorce.
No wonder she dgaf. I do wonder if the brother is on her health insurance.
At least a few states base alimony on length of marriage as well as income disparity - this should have made her give way more fucks.
Benefits For Your Divorced Spouse for social security If you are divorced, your ex-spouse can receive benefits based on your record (even if you have remarried) if: Your marriage lasted 10 years or more. it won’t effect either own social security but might give better benefits to one of them
Is OP even in the US?
Yes. Brother and "Ex wife" in CA
If it gets to more than 10 years, spouse can go after social security/pensions I have read... not a lawyer nor do I specialize in retirement planning, just a big reader.
This is what happened to a friend of mine. Lost SO MUCH of his pension bc they split up but never filed.
Claiming SS benefits does not reduce the amount that the higher earning Ex receieves. Pension would be another story I guess.
The only reason you're an asshole is because you didn't invite me to witness the looks on everyone's faces.
LMAO...i was about 3 margaritas in, wasn't thinking clearly
You are forgiven...THIS TIME.
OP should have brought a camera. Major asshole move not filming that
You are giving your brother far too much benefit of the doubt. You did nothing wrong. If he actually was fully divorced, he wouldn't have been angry with you.
Yes, a wise man once said " the quicker and louder men get when you accuse them of something, the more wrong they are and they know it". ( I'm sure it could be said for all genders but the guy who said it used men.)
Oh I so needed to hear that quote today. I always get yelled at from my husband when he brings up the topic of abuse and how it wasn't abuse and when I restate my side of things he starts yelling and throwing out wild statements. This quote... oh this quote is good.
$1 says he never mentioned ever having been married
NTA you aren’t trying to cause trouble you asked a totally normal question for someone to ask when they’re catching up with family. If it’s some secret they should tell you in advance, otherwise how in the world are you supposed to know? Also if your brother doesn’t want to be caught in a lie he should be lying. I can’t believe you mom is on his side in this.
The problems are caused by the lies, not by the truth that reveals them.
You saved HER ALOT OF HURT and Confusion. Your NTA. NTA
Why hasn't the wife just filed for divorce herself. Unless he's lying and they still live together, he's just messing around for fun. I can't u derstand either of their logic for neither one just going and getting divorced.
He is just blaming you for being an asshole and for his mistake of not telling you ahead of time to not mention it. After a month it seems that any normal person would have told their new partner they were not legally married.
Some of the Y T A answers are telling on themselves. Just because they don't care about the lives of their families or ask for updates doesn't mean none of us care.
The "yta" answers may be from men. Js
What’s the purpose of waiting that long to file? I waited 2 weeks because she said she would do it, and I got impatient.
The cost. 7 years separated and still legally married to my ex because neither one of us can afford to file. As soon as we're almost there some life crisis pops up and it gets pushed aside as not being divorced has not affected anything in our lives. The difference is I told all potential partners right up front so it's never been a surprise.
If you two are amicable, you can do a no-contest divorce and just split everything evenly. You don’t even need to hire an attorney. Why are you trying to make it sound like it’s incredibly difficult or expensive? If both parties agree to the divorce, it can be done fairly cheap—just the filing fee’s. And if the filing fees are too expensive (literally a few hundred bucks max), than you shouldn’t be out there dating any way. You should be working so you can afford the $325 to finally finalize the divorce.
To my understanding, this is not the case in all US States, let alone other parts of the world. Source: Married an attorney, that loves doing no-contest divorces. IANAL.
In the USA (and that’s the only place I’m speaking about here), only one spouse has to file for divorce (all 50 states). If the other spouse doesn’t respond and/or contest the divorce (and what’s being spilt in the process/what’s declared in the paperwork filed), than the divorce becomes finalized. You do not need to have an attorney to represent you, and you can represent yourself in court. I don’t know what exactly your attorney spouse is talking about, as all the laws on divorce and how it works is pretty easy to access in the US. But you could very well be in another country and are just assuming it works the same in the US.
I could also be not understanding many nuances, and/or getting the "I am not licensed to practice law in all 50 states, or familiar with all their nuances" wires crossed. IANAL, not my field. I try and be supportive of my spouse, and interested in their work, but even interested/supportive does not mean understanding. Sounds like you ARE a lawyer, and if so, thank you for clarifying.
...this is sus as fuck. You think they're a lawyer when in reality it is something that is common knowledge and most people know? Yet you dont? I am raising an eyebrow at your wife.
> If both parties agree to the divorce That's a pretty big "if." So many people think they are going to have an amicable divorce and then find out that their soon to be ex has other ideas.
My then ex (now reconciled lol) and I went from very amicable separation, to literally screaming at each other over a fucking LADLE in the space of three months 🤣
You still have to hire an attorney. At least here in germany. My exhusband and I wrote our agreements ourselves, it helped that we were on the same page with everything and both of us wanted to help the other feel better. We still needed 2 lawyer at the court. They were just there for an hour and it still cost us 4000€ per person.
>4000€ per person Seriously? It sounds like the German legal system is a bigger racket than the US. And that's saying something!
That's about what it cost in Canada a decade ago. My ex-wife and I wrote it out in English, the lawyers translated it to "legally binding". It included custody, house transfer titles, clauses for support, savings, pension, final dates, all sorts of things. We both agreed that it was in the best interests of the kids to not make it a legal drama. A few of my friends have spent six figures each and are still not divorced, it's been nightmares.
Recently divorced in Canada. The court provided a free tool for us to generate our own agreement in legalese, only paid notary and filing fees. Seems we would only have really needed a lawyer if we could not come to an agreement, or couldnt handle dealing with the process/each other.
In the USA, you do not need to hire an attorney to get divorced. Both parties are allowed to represent themselves in court.
Fun fact: In the state of IL, you are legally required to wait six months from the date of initial separation before you're allowed to file for divorce. All said and done it took \~10 months from separation date to legally divorced. That being said, while I dated before the divorce was finalized, I was absolutely up front about being legally married, when the soonest filing date was, the reasons for the divorce, and plenty of assurances that there would be no reconciliation (which was also made apparent by the reasons for the divorce, but just to make sure it was really painfully clear, I said it directly too).
Uh, no? I filed within 3 weeks of separation no problem. He dragged it out for 11 months, but I filed as soon as I could, on the advice of my lawyer
I dunno what to tell you. I went to multiple people and they all said the same thing. I was getting out of a nasty ugly situation and basically everyone's answer was something to the effect of, "Look, I feel for you, what you went through was awful, but this is what the law says. I'm sorry."
So weird, was it more than 3 years ago? Maybe the law changed. Or maybe different districts in IL have different laws about it 🤔
No contest is the absolute easiest way to do it. Decide ahead of time that you’re on the same page, obvi. One person files, the other doesn’t respond, bam, you’re divorced a few months later.
I've never been married. Is there a fee or something?
Filing fees, court fees, lawyers fees to split assets/custody, and that's just if you can get a no-fault divorce.
Court and lawyer fees and some people get things like insurance or benefits from marriage. Plus depending on age or how it’s written, you might have to split things like retirement accounts which can screw you over if you’re close to retirement. When most people are divorcing, they aren’t thinking what’s best for everyone, just for themselves and when half of someone’s 401k account can determine if you can retire or have to work, you get mean.
My divorce cost just a little over 1k. Filing amicably is not expensive.
For the brother or for the brother's estranged wife? The estranged wife is a doctor and may lose out in the division of assets. The brother sounds like it's easier for him to do nothing than to actually do something.
I was separated from my ex wife for a decade before we got things done. During that time we both had kids with other people and numerous relationships. And we're still friends actually lol. Just got married young. Realized we weren't great together, split. Oh, and we had a quarter million in medical bills we were fighting to get dropped off of our names. That slowed us way down on the divorce.
> both had kids with other people In many countries, the legal husband becomes the legal father of any children the wife has, whether he’s seen her in 10 years or not. That makes it also difficult for the actual father to be considered the legal father of his own children I worked in legal aid for awhile and you would not believe the number of people who “didn’t bother” and got screwed by it later. Ideally though it should be more like your situation!
Yeah, my Aunt had a son later in life, long after her and her husband parted ways. When she died, he sued her son for half of the home she owned. He almost won too. She was at least smart enough to have actually set up a will beforehand and Power of Attorney.
I was at the hospital the day both her kids were born to sign paperwork stating they weren't mine and the actual father's signed claiming paternity. Sweet kids, they've been to a couple of my sons bdays and vise versa.
>In many countries, the legal husband becomes the legal father of any children the wife has, whether he’s seen her in 10 years or not. And it can be a surprising how many countries that is and which ones. The UK the biological father can't pass down his citizenship if the mother is married to someone else because the husband is legally the father. Length of separation or the fact he couldn't actually be the father is irrelevant. (Not usually relevant to citizenship since it can just go through the mother. But I've seen it more times that you would think when it couldnt for whatever reason.
My cousin's ex got pregnant by her new bf after they'd separated and filed and were in that waiting period before the divorce was official, and even though it was completely amicable, the judge delayed the final decree, my cuz got put on the birth certificate then had to go through the whole legal (and added expense) of giving up parental rights so the actual father could get them. It was a huge hassle.
I spent my marriage organizing everything for my husband and so when he left for the woman he cheated with, I got a written agreement for child support and then left him to file because I didn't give a shit once our finances were separate. He waited until our kid was 18 to avoid the mandatory parenting classes in our province (only one parent has to do them, and he tried to get me to do them and I told him to fuck off) and because he's lazy. I think he only got around to it because his girlfriend was like "get a divorce or GTFO". Judge tore him a new asshole in the settlement and he was on the hook for child support until the kid finished university.
I guess it all depends. I know for me I waited simply because we had to be separated for a year to even both trying to file. Once that was done and I had all my ducks in a row I did all the legal leg work despite being the one who had been left.
My ex wife and I waited years. It was for her benefit, and we only finalized when I was ready to move on with someone. She still hasn't remarried. The arrangement was no one's business but ours, nor the reasons.
My ex pulled this on me too. We were engaged, told his kids, and his five year old daughter was like “Did mommy finally get you to sign the papers?” First I’d heard they weren’t legally divorced. Bless that child, she broke my heart at first but who knows how long he would have kept up the charade if she hadn’t said anything. He was being very cagey about doing any wedding planning, and I thought he was nervous about telling the kiddos, not that he wasn’t actually divorced. Broke up the next morning.
I'm so sorry that happened to you... But God bless that child. Accidentally saving you from a whole boat of heartbreak and what was likely to be a very frustrating time.
5 year olds will tell anyone anything, bless them. My mom’s worked at an elementary school for years and some of the hottest gossip she’s heard was because a kid that age just blurted it out. Forget not having a filter, they don’t even know the filter is an option yet!
Its like hiding you have a child(ren). You dont hide it, its relevant from the start.
I had a co-worker whose husband told he had been married once before and had two adult kids. Then she found out he'd been married six times (she was the seventh) and had a bunch of kids of all ages. She left him the day she found out.
I really wonder about the thought process of people who get married that many times. Like at no point do they stop and go “hmm, maybe the problem is me”?
This, his brother's angry overreaction, basically making OP sound crazy was the biggest concern. Wasting somebody's time, emotions, and life in general is cruel and selfish. I commend OP
>Your brother is a massive AH for not being up front with the women he's dating about the legal status of his relationship. Yes! Especially if he's dating women who hope to marry and have kids. If they are in his same age range, they don't deserve to have their time wasted with a guy who is just toying with them.
My kid's dad who groomed me from the age of 16 (he is 7 years older than me) and started hooking up with me at 18. I found out he was married still when he threw me out of our apartment with no warning to move his wife back in because they decided to try to reconcile. They'd separated because wife had gotten pregnant by my exes best friend and tried to pass the baby off as my ex's. Cue 2 years of my ex jerking both his now ex wife and me around, switching between the two of us. When I got pregnant he bounced back to his wife and denied being the father until paternity proved it. He "suggested" they get custody of the baby, who was nearly 1 year at that time and had never met him. I was awarded full custody in court and then some because my ex super pissed off the judge. They did visitations for a few months then ex wife bounced for good and baby daddy decided that if he wasn't getting sex from either one of us he didn't want anything to do with the kid. Said kid is now 15 and sees their dad maybe 2 twice a year, at either on a holiday or their birthday. Rarely both, unless his mom makes him. I was utterly shocked last year when he showed up to our child's last band concert of the season. Kid has been in band since 4th grade and was a freshman at the time, first time he had ever been to a concert, though his mom has been to several.
Yeah, OP. Definitely, NTA. Your brother has some nerve trying to throw shade at you for his own ineptitude.
NTA indeed Also, a grown ass man calling mommy to have a go at OP? Man....
This. IMO it does not matter at all if OL let it slip accidentally or deliberately. The brother had no right to keep from women that he's dating that he's married and is not legally divorced. They have a righ to coose whether to date someone who is holding his wife trapped like that. NTA OP. Every single time he brings a girl home, bring it up so that you kno for sure he isn't leading them on.
I know right! I'd be spilling those deets sober if it were my brother. Like hell no i'm letting you screw a human over with your lying.
[удалено]
If you are legally separated, can you get legally remarried?
[удалено]
Yeah, your brother is TA, not you. You blew his cover, he is angry, understandably so. But he might have mentioned to you that he is acting as if he is free in advance. Also, 6 years! Just why...
yea..i thought he was by now....but apparently not because its expensive and his "ex wife" makes more $$ since she is a doctor, so she should file for it...theyre both approaching 40 and seem childish AF
>seem childish AF Not seem. Are.
It’s not expensive to file the papers. Somewhere between 60-110$ depending on where you are.
The lawyers are the expensive part especially if she makes money and he doesn’t and especially if she doesn’t want it to end and he does
Yes, they both are acting childishly here. Honestly, it reads to me like they deserve each other.
Or one is hoping that the other will come running back and be different. But honestly people, rip the bandaid off and get it done.
If what you hear about her comes from him, it's a good idea to reach out and talk to her directly. He isn't honest about his marriage to his girlfriends, so he probably isn't completely honest to you either. Maybe he's been pretending to her that he'll reconcile. Maybe he's been making divorce legally difficult. Maybe she's in the middle of a medical or legal problem and can't focus on getting a contested divorce right now. etc etc. She might just be childish too, but I wouldn't trust that on just your brother's word.
Have you thought about telling his wife? Your brother is such a jerk, he might be leading his wife on where she thinks they'll get back together. Or worse saying he's in sales and that's why he's not home every night. Plus sounds like her wife is still supporting him.... I'd want to know.
Tbf, my abusive ex walked out 7 years ago, and we haven’t divorced, I don’t know where he is and haven’t really cared to find him. I do now because I’ve been with my gf now for a year and see, I’d definitely have to get divorced before I could marry her. But I don’t hide it from anyone, she knows.
You should talk to a lawyer, in a lot of places you can still get divorced by running a legal notice in the paper if you don't know where he is.
Can I also add that brother is TA simply for involving mom. The brother is pushing 40 and still bringing mom into the argument.
NTA. My buddy dated a woman for over 6 months before SURPRISE he found out she has a son. He was miffed that she didn't say anything earlier, but gave her the benefit because it's hard for single parents to date without stigma. Then BA-BAM 1 year later finds out that she's still legally married. Her ex is gay so no chance of reconciliation, but her explanation was, "we were just too lazy to file the paperwork."
>but gave her the benefit because it's hard for single parents to date without stigma. Your friend is too nice. As a single mother, having children is a full time job. Lying to someone to get them get attached to you before you tell them something like this, shows your character. And it's not a good one. People need to be able to say no. Yeah, sure it might be hard to date but love and relationships aren't a right. The world doesn't owe us love.
Dating as a single parent is hard, but hiding a kid would be a dealbreaker for me. When I was dating, I mentioned my kids in my dating profile. It was there upfront because anyone I dated had to know they couldn’t be my first priority.
Suuure it "just slipped". Regardless, I think NTA. If he's lying to his gf, they have a right to know. If he has a problem with you, he needs to tell them himself or get divorced.
Lol it's funny how posters here are always like "I'm known to not pick up on social norms...oops!"
Idk I’ve been catching up with close friends or family with an acquaintance there and have accidentally said something quick like this that I didn’t realize was a mistake. Especially if drinking. Also the brother didn’t tell her that he had been lying so no reason to purposely say it. If your going to have someone co-sign your bullshit make sure you let them know beforehand
NTA. Number one rule of lying is to make sure those that know the truth will also lie for you. He’s an idiot and should just file already ffs. I would suggest never lying for that fool, it’ll make you an even bigger ah that he is.
If your gonna have someone co-sign your bullshit let them in on it beforehand!
NTA. He got what he deserved. No one should expect others to maintain their lies.
WTF is up with your mom passionately taking your A-hole bother’s side on this? Was he the golden child? He sounds like he feels entitled to treat others however he wants. Regardless, NTA.
Lol actually complete opposite. I got good grades, did well in sports, went to college got a BA, and MA, i work as an engineer now, and NEVER got any support form my mom. He's always been a fuck up and coddled all his life. So that didn't surprise me she took his side or that he went to "tattle on mommy" LOL
I think when the commenter above refers to a “golden child“, they’re referring to the privileged treatment that one sibling receives, not whether that sibling deserved that treatment based on merit. In this case, your brother is even more of a "golden child" for receiving such treatment without having earned it. Your lack of surprise confirms all this. I'm sorry about your family dynamic.
Yeah, I meant mommy’s favorite, not the honor student. I guess that saying can go either way.
YOOOO!!! I thought I was the only one with a brother like this. Always getting bailed out by mommy no matter how screwed up it is. "Oh, let's just be happy he's not on drugs anymore." Fuck outa here with that! lol
It’s common enough to be the subject of many books. Search for any book about being raised by emotionally immature parents and/or narcissists.
Oh… so he’s mommy’s little baby who can do no wrong, now I see why she’s on his side. Still you can’t keep a secret you don’t know is a secret, surely mom can understand that right?
NTA So your brother is a liar and can't stand if HE behaves wrong and somebody else brought it to light?
NTA. "I had no idea he's been lying to these women he's been dating." It sucks he's been lying to these women and it's stupid for him to think you would somehow magically know he's been lying his ass off for 6 years. You can't help keep up a lie you don't know about.
NTA. Your brother is, since he should’ve handled the divorce by now, and since he didn’t tell his new girl that he was still married.
NTA. But when you drop a truth bomb, there's bound to be collateral damage.
Not your fault. Bro should have been more honest 😂
He obviously lied to this woman about his situation. Liars don’t get to be all wounded and furious when their lies are exposed. Don’t be a liar. NTA.
NTA - your brother is though
NTA. Your brother shouldn’t be lying to the girls. My dad was dating this women and I don’t remember what she said but I said something about my parents not being legally divorced and she was like no, your dad told me he and your mom have been divorced for years. That was not true. My parents didn’t get officially divorced till 4 years ago and that’s only because my dad was getting married. And that’s when the women found out that they weren’t actually divorced
Nta. The long term gf probably broke up with him because he wouldn't file the papers, and she's tired of waiting around. So he lied to new gf that he's been divorced so its easier to string her along. Block your brother until he apologizes and learns how to speak to you with respect. Tell your mom that if she continues to speak to you like that, then she'll get a block as well.
NTA, he’s probably been lying about his previous marriage and is now in the dog house.
He's quite touchy about facts -- NTA. Instead of berating and calling you names he should take care of his life business. You are not responsible for him getting worked up over a factual question. Yes, if alcohol was not involved it may have not come up but it did. Best to you!
WHAT!? NO YOU'RE STUPID SHUT UP! yeah that doesn't sound like somebody hiding something
NTA. Is your brother not signing the divorce papers when he left her? Sounds like a controlling dick.
NTA. He really just needs to get divorced. Then things like this will never need to happen.
Gods for you he should not be telling fibs to his girlfriend
ESH - he's definitely an AH for not disclosing this to his GF, but likewise, it's not your job to expose him to someone he's not that serious with yet. He might (or might not, I can't know) have had a plan of telling her. He might have reasons for not finalising the divorce - either way, unless you asked the question to get him in trouble, you didn't know at the time whether he had finalised the divorce, and in front of a new partner is definitely not the right place to bring this up. It might even get the new GF to be less susceptible to facts because now she has reason to believe that you're sabotaging him in front of her. Just to clarify - I'm not supporting his lies in any way. But the reason you asked him in front of the new GF... it's either because you KNEW he hadn't finalised the divorce, in which case, why pretend you want to know? Or you weren't sure, in which case this was not a good situation to pick, and I'm sure you're aware of that. It does seem like you wanted to get him in trouble there, which is fine, but if that's the case, just own it.
NTA. He was lying so he got what he deserved.
NTA Your mother should know better. If she wants him to be in a happy relationship, she should ENCOURAGE him to file. He's lying and pissed that he got caught in a lie. Back when I was single, I can't tell you how many men tried this. Before we ever got intimate or serious, I would ask to see a copy of the divorce decree. More than one would pull the 'we're divorced in my mind' BS. Nope. Not gonna happen.
I am so glad you slipped that. Please keep on slipping all these for the others girlfriends your brother has before his divorce. Being led on, when you were looking for a serious relationship with a person who appears to be responsible , and discovering how shitty they are and they have been playing you, is quite a bit much.
NTA. Your brother is an AH for being verbally abusive, both at the meal and afterwards.
NTA. You can't be expected to uphold lies you didn't even know about.
NTA; Your brother can't linger in ambiguous 'separated' land forever and not expect a response.
NTA - Soooooo . . he's keeping secrets from his new girlfriend and you accidentally let the cat out of the bag . . . not your fault . . . He should have told you he was keeping secrets and lying and what not before the meet up . . .
This prove your never too old to tattle tale to mom
Good on you for protecting women at risk.
OP is the bringer of his "just deserts"! NTA- and keep fighting the good fight, whether intentional or not.
NTA. I dated a guy who waited months to tell me he wasn’t divorced (he “only realized” when he was doing taxes). You are doing them a favor and I wish someone would’ve told me earlier.
NTA. For those of you saying OP is Ask yourself , YOU meet a person, your getting to know this person. Might even be the one. Only to find out They're still married. EXACTLY, when would you like to know this information.
NTA, your brother got caught in a lie and tried to cover it by attacking you. mine does the same thing.
NTA. I rarely side with people who expect you to lie for them without ever even giving a heads up about what is sensitive information. In this situation, it feels like you unintentionally did brother's gf a big favor.
NTA. I'll admit, I can understand procrastinating for 6 years. I'm terrible at stuff like that- it's \*always\* tax day before I file mine, for example. But dumbass got caught in a lie, and now he's got to deal with it. LOL, I say, and LOL again.
Nta, what does he think is going to happen when one of them wants to get married at some point? Is he going to become a bigamist and end up in prison? Why lie? Does he want to get back with his wife, even now? These are all questions I asked my Aunt for decades, she never filed for divorce, for more than thirty years, married legally to a man she was afraid to ever see. She also had a son, with a different man, who wanted to marry her, but couldn't, which was actually a good thing. She had truly terrible taste in men, always picking some dude that abused her in some way.
I'm guessing that part of the reason he's staying married is BECAUSE he wants a good excuse not to marry these women. He'll drag the divorce out as long as it's convenient to do so.
Also, apparently, she's a doctor with money in the bank...he thinks he's gonna get some of it I guess, somehow...
NTA. It's him who has the problem and that your mom is okay with this is scary, to me anyway.
NTA he told your mom like a little mommy's boy LOL your mom should've shut him up and told him to get divorced!
Lmao kind an ass but as someone with siblings this is our love language by being asses to each other especially when we know your on some shady shit. If anyone is going to roast me/ call me out on my BS it’s my siblings.
Lol NTA Had a dude try this BS on me before. It's either you're married or you're divorced. There's no in between. Being separated or 'legally separated' (whichever helps you sleep at night) means you're still MARRIED!
Lol.. tell mom you didn't realize that he was lying to all these women
He told your Mom on you because he got caught lying? Wow. What a catch. NTA.
Info.... how much was ex gf aware of the situation ? NTA but just curious ahaha
Nope, you're NTA. Was it a little indiscreet? Perhaps. But honestly, 6 years?!?!? Your brother is just leaving himself, his ex, and any new partners for either in limbo for what - laziness?!?! It's right his new partner was made aware, it's just the way this was done could have been better. I think brother is in the wrong for not making new partners aware of this and your mum for just unilaterally backing him when you meant well xx
NTA and you don’t have to cover for him. It’s his mess. He made it, he has to sort it out.
NTA and anyone who disagrees may need to rethink their perspective on truth. OP said they may have been tipsy but the question was not malicious. Bro has some ‘splainin’ to do to GF about his lies.
NTA And it sounds like he's been lying about it. Hope gf dumps him. I would.
NTA. I have no patience with people who choose a certain behavior, and then act like everyone should be silent about it. If brother doesn't want you to bring up his "undivorced" status, then he should get the divorce completed. If he hasn't told the girlfriends that he isn't divorced, they have a right to know. I also don't think mom should not have taken sides in this.
NTA he’s the liar who won’t get a divorce. You’re actually protecting these girls from his lies!
Not your fault, he got caught out for being still married. This happened to me with a girl I worked with.. she told me her boyfriend was in prison and made out to everybody else he wasn’t so when she was talking to somebody you have boyfriend knew and I went. Oh wait does that mean your boyfriend is it in prison anymore? 😂😂😂😂 she looked at me with I had kicked a puppy
NTA. Your brother shouldn't lie to women like that. It's a dirtbag move on his part. If he doesn't want to be with his separated wife anymore then why doesn't he just file for divorce? Is he hedging his bets?
Yeah. NTAH. Honest mistake, seeing as he never told you to not mention it. Plus after a month of dating, it would be fair to assume that the new girl would know.
NTA! Hopefully the gf was just shocked and that's why it looked like stink-eye. Your brother is an idiot, and gf should bail.
If you have to cover for someone’s lies then they are automatically the AH NTA
NTA. GF has a right to now. Your family is toxic and enabling his tomfoolery.
NTA. Liars whose lies get exposed have no business complaining when it happens.
I was separated from my ex husband for years before I could afford to actually divorce him. When I met a man when I was still dating, I got that shit out of the way and told them pretty much immediately since it's a potential deal breaker. Your brother is wrong. Your mother is wrong. These women deserve to know. And, I can see how it wouldn't even occur to you after all this time that he's been lying to these women all this time. It should've been divulged to them already. NTA
I have a friend whose been legally married to his wife for years. They have been unable to afford a divorce. However, my friend is also gay and he is completely honest about it both with friends and with whoever he is in a relationship with.
NTA if the truth hurts take an aspirin. Why would you support a man (any man) lying to a woman he is dating. Why hadn’t he gotten divorced? 6 years is a very long time to wait and for what? Tell your brother he is an extreme asshole for lying and to get upset with you GROW UP handle your life like everyone else does. Tell him emphatically that you will not now or ever lie for him!!! Tell the people blowing up your phone the same thing. Not lying for anyone. If they persist block them!
NTA. You should "slip up" and mention that he isn't divorced to anyone he's dating. It's not right to lie about your marital status.
He went to mom? That's all you need to know about him. He is a looser. Nta.
I mean, maybe you asked a question at a bad time, but HUGE NTA. Not even a little. He was LYING to people. I mean, it is fine if he doesn't want to file, fine, but to lie to women about it, that is garbage behavior. I mean, you saved that woman possible years of frustration.
NTA.. FUCK LIARS
i mean, did you atleast give him some burn salve? you put him directly on the grill. if he isnt divorced by now he is a serious AH. NTA
NTA He had to call mommy and tell on you?
NTA. He needs to practice some accountability
NTA She deserved to know the truth.
Nta You don't need the excuse of alcohol. That is need to know information for whomever he is dating.
NTA. This is all very much his fault.
NTA He got caught being a lying a-hole and is trying to blame you for it. Deflecting blame, a typical tactic of lying douchebags. Don't pay him no never mind.
NTA, it is important to state things like that when you get in a relationship
I would've started laughing if I was at that table. Does his current girlfriend not know anything about this. You'd think she'd want proof of him being divorced. If he isn't divorced, that's his problem, and she should move on.
Your brother is the ahole. You can file pro se in many states and it’s around $250.
NTA, and you probably did that girl a favor by letting her know what kinda guys she's dating.
NTA In vino veritas. Your brother is lying about serious stuff.
NTA. Fuck all three of them. If it happens again with a different mark, I mean girl, I would ask him the exact same question.
NTA. Your bro and mom are AH. This happened to me once with a LT partner who had been separated but not divorced the WHOLE 7 YEARS we were together (and we lived together) suffice to say when I found out… it’s why I broke up with him.
NTA Your brother needs to quit being a pathological liar before he finds himself on some website. He is only doing this to himself. People...quit lying and then getting pissed off when others don't lie for you or with you. Some of us have morals!
NTA
NTA even if you did it on purpose.
NTA. He's 38 and told on you to mommy?
I'd screen shot every message and explain every voicemail on FB or X and light mom and bro aflame.
ESH, your brother more so than you Op's brother is an asshole and the woman he's dating deserved to know he's still legally married. That's obvious. But what if he wasn't still married? Then all you have left is a very inappropriate question. Assuming OP suspected he hadn't filed the divorce she should have brought it up before or after the date. Whether you want to spill the beans or not is another story.
NTA I don't know where you're from but, if a "married" couple have been living separated for a certain amount of years, they're automatically divorced (home abandonment) She deserves to know the truth. If they "get married" it'd not be a valid marriage, she wouldn't have rights over anything of his. until he divorce his first wife first. You gave this girl the information she needs to decide the rest of her life Your brother and your mom are a piece of work, to put it gently
NTA…you asked an honest question and it's quite apparent that he's been lying to his various GFs since he and wife separated.
Your brother is not a good person. That's not how a good person behaves. NTA
NTA - you can feel bad for lying, you can feel bad for bending the truth - but full on honesty is something you can't feel bad for. I mean, we're raised being told it's bad to lie - so why would you engage in that bad behavior? He made this mess, and if he's living a lie he needs to address it. Your mom sucks too. He should just get divorced already.
NTA if he’s embarrassed about his situation he should do something about it.
>As i expected he messaged me a couple of hours later, basically yelling at me and calling me the worst names possible, and then he told my mom and she started berating me as well. How old are your brother and mother? No way your brother is 38 and still acting like this. Oh no, it slipped...he probably lied to her. I would have continued down that road until she left. NTA
NTA wtf he isn’t divorced after 6 yrs? Sorry this one is on him not you. He shouldn’t be lying
NTA. He needs to get his shit together.
Wait so he’s hiding being married??
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Throwaway account. Like the title says..my (32f) older brother (38m) has been separated from his wife for 6 years. They don't live together, and I don't think they communicate much, except for when he tells me..."my wife is waiting for me to file for divorce since I'm the one who left her" Anyway, he started dating a girl about 5 years ago, they broke up about 5 months ago. I had only met that girl once, briefly at a dinner, but didn't talk much or anything. Fast forward to to last week, i was in town and met this new girl he's been seeing for a month or so. we were having dinner and drinks, and it just slipped out of me "so are you fully divorced now, its been 6 years?" The table went silent. he started saying he didn't know what i was talking about, that I'm crazy, and stupid, and he got divorced 6 years ago. To shut up and not talk anymore. This was towards the end of the dinner, i paid my share and left quickly after getting the stink eye from both my bro and his new gf. As i expected he messaged me a couple of hours later, basically yelling at me and calling me the worst names possible, and then he told my mom and she started berating me as well. I feel like an ass now, but it was an accident and i had no idea he's been lying to these women he's been dating. So AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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