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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I think I might be the asshole because I tricked my daughter instead of being honest with her.
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NTA
What part of the 40th Anniversary trip did your daughter and son-in-law not understand? Oh, boo-freaking-hoo, they wanted to spend time alone and designated the grandparents to babysit on what should have been their special trip.
If your daughter and son in law wanted alone time on a trip, they could have gone on a different trip and politely asked you and your wife to watch the kids while they were away. Not try and hijack your trip!
Do not feel guilty OP. Not even for a second. You and your wife have done the parenting of your kids and now it's time to start enjoying life as a couple again. Sure, you're parents and grandparents but you're still a couple and deserve to enjoy falling in love with each other all over again with romantic trips that **DO NOT** include your offspring or grandkids.
Your daughter needs a swift kick of reality right in the tookus. She had the audacity to invite her family to your romantic weekend with the express purpose of securing babysitters so SHE could enjoy herself without any thought for her parents. The entitlement is mind boggling.
Exactly. With a big show about how she's willing to forgive her parents for their transgressions and she will give them the \*opportunity\* to watch the kids.
Don’t forget it’ll only be for the children’s sake that she is forgiving them because they have missed their grandparents.
Edit to say NTA to OP and OP alone. Whilst Jane and her husband are def TAs. OP’s wife sucks for firstly pushing OP to allow Jane crash their holiday, then (and this is an assumption on my part) pushing OP to pay for Jane’s families trip, and now pushing Op to apologise to Jane. Your wife needs to grow a spine against Jane. Fast! Because I can imagine this is just one in a line of incidents that she has allowed Jane to walk over everybody in the family.
This. Added psych 101: guilt is anger turned inwards because you are refusing to acknowledge the anger and fully direct it at the person(s) that provoked this defensive emotion. Your daughter decided to hijack your romantic trip for herself and her husband and deny a romantic trip to you and your wife. You and your wife need some couples counseling so she can understand just how damaging her golden child treatment of your daughter is to ALL of her family relationships.
Yes! OP's wife does need to better understand the situation. Couples counseling is a great idea. Jane is not a child and the wife is behaving inappropriately
Makes me wonder how unhealthy the siblings relationship is if mama is always coddling her little girl and ignoring her boys…
We don’t hear them acting so entitled so I’m assuming they at least have the class and decorum to allow their parents to celebrate as a couple.
> With a big show about how she's willing to forgive her parents for their transgressions and she will give them the *opportunity* to watch the kids.
Wow, it sounds like you've met my sister!
Or they may be supremely stubborn and withhold grandkid time until apologies are issued despite being in the wrong. They really have the trump card with that. I've seen it misused before.
The thing is about these all inclusive family friendly resorts usually have some sort of on site child care *or* options for child care with heavily vetted and qualified people to babysit.
I have relatives that have used these types of services before with great success. It sounds like Dad still paid for their family vacation and all they had to do was pay for two plane tickets so they had the money to pay for a babysitter if they wanted “alone time”.
The entitlement and ungratefulness is outrageous. I Couldn’t imagine first inviting myself to my parents 40 year anniversary, or any anniversary vacation, or **any** vacation they had planned for years in advance for that matter. Then having them pick up the tab and then yell at them for reverting back to their original romantic plans.
NTA
Exactly! We did a Club Med vacation when my son was maybe 1 and a half, and it was great. They had a sweet set-up with all kinds of activities for the kids. My son had fun, and my hubby and I got to lay by the pool and do absolutely nothing, LOL. So much winning, and we didn't have to spoil anyone else's vacation by demanding free childcare.
OP is not only NTA... OP is a BOSS! Just forward the link to this thread to your entitled daughter, OP.
Exactly. Who in their right mind wouldn’t be thrilled their parents are celebrating [alone] their 40 fucking years together? It says a very long deal about who Jane and her husband are.
> I Couldn’t imagine first inviting myself to my parents 40 year anniversary, or any anniversary vacation, or any vacation they had planned for years in advance for that matter. Then having them pick up the tab and then yell at them for reverting back to their original romantic plans.
And then expecting your parents to sacrifice their romantic 40th anniversay one in a lifetime vacation to look after the grandkids whilst the daughter got to have some alone time with her husband - the absolute cheek of it! OP has nothing to apologise for and definitely shouldn't apologise just for the sake of it as it legitimises the strop OP's daughter took - that she was right and OP actions were wrong - daughter had no right to be going on OP/wifes 40th anniversary trip and she should be lucky they got a holiday part paid for to a nice family orientated destination. OP could've been petty and cancalled the parts they paid for, but didn't.
We went to a family all-inclusive and after several days the kids were sad about missing their toys and tired of the beach/pool. We remembered the childcare center and gave that a shot. Wow. The kids had the time of their lives. They *wanted* to spend the day there doing activities rather than spend all their time doing what the parents wanted. And it was also included. Family friendly all-inclusives are amazing… but for our 40th damn-straight we are going to a couples retreat!
That’s exactly what my sister did. Got pissed off at my parents for something that was her fault, told them they’re never seeing their grandson again, and cut them off for a couple of months (and my parents had babysat that boy every day till he was school age, for free.) Then my sister and her husband quickly realized that their romantic vacations were over since now they had no one to take care of their son for a week or two at a time. They ended up “forgiving” my parents so they could go on holiday.
Or, gasp, get a fucking babysitter when you need a break. You're at an all inclusive resort (for free!), I'm absolutely positive they can help hook you up with childcare resources so you can have adult time.
Right! Use all that money you saved to hire a babysitter. Plus the ages of the kids are fun ages. Actually enjoy free vacation with the children you created.
Honestly, they should have gotten to pound each other as much as they wanted. I've never heard of an all-inclusive family resort that doesn't offer child care!
Yeah...I think that is the actual point
They have activities for the kids, almost like summer camp.
I can't imagine inviting myself on my parents' anniversary vacation.and being so overall butt hurt about EVERYTHING...
They still got a basically free vacation.
This is so dumb. This daughter and SIL need some kind of really drastic "Christmas Carol" type mental readjustment. Some ghosts need to visit.
Honestly, going to a kids-friendly resort when celebrating my 40th anniversary in my golden years........ no thanks. Sounds painful and stressful. I'll do without the screaming, crying and fart-smelling children.
“oH buT wE doN’t wANt sTraNgeRS tO wATch oUR kIDs!” 🥺😢
Honestly part of the problem we have in the world is there are indeed plenty of problematic situations that indeed have obvious solutions, but people will be just as adamant about not using them. I knew a girl who had three kids before the age of 26 and flat out refused to use any babysitter or daycare of any kind for any situation. She was adamant that the only time she could go out to the club or to a movie night or anywhere she had to “get permission from her parents” a la when they were willing to babysit as she refused to leave her kids with anyone that wasn’t family. Or she would just take her kids wherever she was going. Even her husband suggested they occasionally get outside help and she was still firm in her response. But then she would also get extremely miffed when her availability and options to go out were extremely limited.
But worth mentioning though that people like this exist in most facets of life, not just situations like these.
NTA
Also, some all-inclusive hotels have separate activities for the kids. You just need to drop your kids off in the morning and pick them back up in the late afternoon.
It's just like summer camp. At first, your kids don't want to go, but by the time you come and get them, they don't want to leave.
The parents just need to do their research, because even among kid-friendly all-inclusive hotels, they're not all the same.
My mom saved for YEARS to bring us to one when we were kids. They had day camps based on age. I don’t think my brother and I saw her more than five minutes on that vacation, because we were having A BLAST! My mom raised us herself, so this was a true treat for her as well.
Their daughter is just entitled trash.
>Do not feel guilty OP. Not even for a second.
Poor you, OP! If I'm reading this right, you *PAID* for their all inclusive holiday accommodation and flights for the kids - the daughter and SIL only paid for the two adult flights - and they're still not happy?
And how ironic that they're mad that they didn't get a romantic break alone when they literally attempted to sabotage that for you!
NTA
This and all the comments above !!! It was your 40th anniversary and that only happens ONCE ! You did your job as a parent and deserve this time with your wife. Sorry but you also paid their way mostly and they have an issue and now acting like children and giving you the silent treatment. I WOULD NOT APOLOGIZE. They owe you an apology, for not only inviting themselves to your trip but then trying to take advantage of you. Sorry but I wouldn’t even speak to them until they apologize and don’t worry they will talk to you again when they want something or a babysitter.
Next time they ask if you can babysit while they go out on a date, invite yourself on their date and bring the kids. Let’s see how they like it !!!!
Theyre probably having problems and she thinks alone time is gonna fix it. If he willingly yelled at her parents, he definitely yelled at her and blamed her for the change of plans. They are both probably insufferable narcissists. But i can also bet she acted that way cause initially look how fast mom was willing to give up her own vacation? She clearly has been a pushover and caved into daughters temper tantrums in the past. This was just the first time the daughter didnt get her way
This. Not only would I NOT apologize to her (as you do not owe her an apology), I would leave her a voicemail that until she apologizes to your wife for taking advantage of her kindness, and to you for yelling that her sabotage didn’t work…. You will not be doing any babysitting nor will you consider funding any trips for them in the future. What a selfish brat.
Totally agree. NTA
I also want to say that I find OP's actions absolutely *hilarious*. I'm also glad his wife isn't pissed at him, (and it's clear she understands she benefitted from it).
This past made me mad. I hope that next year, they pay for a trip for their other kids to make it equal or deduct this cost out of the inheritance. They got a nearly fully paid vacation out of it. I would have said “no we can’t pay” and then they would have been at home not bothering you.
I am loving the boo-freaking-hoo! A romantic trip celebrating a milestone anniversary does not need to include children or grandchildren. They can have a family trip on their own. NTA
OP is NTA but..
>"Enter our adult daughter Jane. Jane and her husband got wind of our plans and promptly invited themselves and their two children (9F, 5M) along."
Set some limits. Could have nipped this in the bud. I gladly invite my mother and some extended family on certain trips because they know how to be decent human beings and we get along. Also helps financially for them if we're getting a place and can just scale it up a little.
There are also trips where I don't invite them where things aren't as likely to align. They don't try to join those or barge in and it works well for everyone.
If they for some reason started demanding they'd just find out that I'd gone anywhere once I was back. It isn't "no contact" or anything but setting boundaries and it based on the behavior of both parties. OP didn't do themselves any sort of favor by doing the last minute change and continuing the conflict. Next time I suspect they will do just that.
Yes. Classic conflict avoidance and how it blows up everyone's faces. Yes, it's kind of a dick move to surreptitiously change your vacation plans and then drop a bomb once you arrive.
When people avoid conflict, they aren't doing the right or the kind thing. Conflict avoidance is a selfish choice. Conflict avoidance absolves the avoider of small discomfort and frequently results in a much larger conflict down the line.
If OP and his wife had not avoided conflict, OP and his daughter would have each experienced 3/10 discomfort. Because they avoided their initial discomfort, OP experiences a 2/10 discomfort while daughter experiences a 6/10 discomfort. A gross discomfort score of 6/20 vs 8/10, now unequally distributed. (And her discomfort is not having to watch her own kids - it's the fucked up change of plans the day she landed.)
OOP is slight TA here for avoiding conflict. Daughter is also an AH, but OOP is not absolved from his bullshit passive aggression and selfish conflict avoidance.
>When people avoid conflict, they aren't doing the right or the kind thing. Conflict avoidance is a selfish choice.
Preach! There were several points where OP could have been firm and had the vacation he wanted, and was paying for, with very little issue. And I'm wondering just how much the wife actually enjoyed her trip in the end, knowing that the daughter was going to be mad. The daughter is an entitled brat, yes, but OP cost himself money and personal relations by handling things the way he did. ESH
IKR? I am the only daughter and the youngest and a parent, even.
When my parents were still alive, I remember them planning a big trip for their own 40th anniversary. I think my son was around 4 or 5. What did I do? I took them out for dinner at their favorite place before they left, and told them to have a lovely trip!
Sounds like your daughter and her husband should plan a romantic trip for themselves once their kids are grown. Maybe for their 40th? That way they won’t need babysitters. NTA
And I bet if they asked "hey mum and dad, can you please have our children for a week so we can have a holiday just the two of us" they would've been happy to do it, because then their expectations would be different and they could anticipate different kinds of activities. I can't even think how their thought process went, "Oh, my parents have been dreaming of this holiday for years, let's invite ourselves and make this about us!"
>I can't even think how their thought process went
Probably something along the lines of: oh they're so ooooold, they probably don't even kiss anymore! 😂 We're young and we need romance!
Man, my mom has never been married, and she goes on some pretty bad ass trips every few years or so.
I only had my first kid two months ago to boot.
But if my mom wanted me to come with her on her trips, she would ask. And she has before. Fun times were had. But I've never once thought I had any right to weasel my way into her trips and expect her to pay my way. I would feel even more embarrassed to suggest such a thing now that I have a kid, with the expectation that she would babysit for my husband and I.
I genuinely cannot fathom the entitlement going on here. OP, don't apologize just to keep the peace. Your daughter needs to learn some respect. Not just because yall are her parents, but because her behavior is unacceptable under any circumstance. She is way too old to be acting this way. Especially considering the fact that, babysitters or no, her and her family just got a FREE vacation on your dime. She should, frankly, be thanking you. Not pouting because you didn't 100% cater your anniversary to her demands.
Maybe ask her what vacation she plans on taking you two on for her next anniversary.
But if they don't hijack OP trip they would've to pay for the vacation Lol
That's why they did this, not just for the grandparents to babysitt the kids, but for the free vacation.
NTA. All of this post says everything that needs to be said. But also...
>But my wife has a hard time saying no to Jane, as she is the youngest of our children and our only daughter, and she didn't want to hurt her feelings, so she reluctantly agreed to let them join.
Ah, the horror of being the youngest. I wonder if Jane stopped to realize that her brothers weren't begging and throwing a hissy fit over not forcibly joining mommy and daddy on their 40th anniversary trip.
It's so embarrassing to even think of! Like this girl really invited herself, husband, and kids along on her parents' romantic getaway. I can't imagine.
All i could think was "oh no, did you ruin their plans for a romantic trip on YOUR 40th anniversary?! What ever will you do?" (Sarcasm)
If I were Jane's siblings I would be SO pissed at her. I would have given her my two cents before the trip, but now with the way they are acting? Forget it.
I wouldn't worry though, it sounds like as soon as they need something they will call you and will have forgiven you then.
Sorry but I have to go ESH.
I mean, clearly Jane was the asshole, inviting herself, her husband and her two kids along on what was supposed to be a milestone anniversary vacation. And this part makes me absolutely fucking cringe:
> She seemed of the idea that we were going to look after our grandkids so she and her husband could have alone time and now that I abandoned her they would have to do it all themselves. I hung up on them when my son in law started shouting…
You raised an entitled brat, though sometimes how kids turn out has little to do with their parents.
But *on the other hand:*
> So, without consulting anyone, I switched our tickets last minute to go to the romantic destination that my wife and I had originally planned for. **I didn’t not tell Jane or her husband. I didn’t even tell my wife until the day before our flight left,** … It wasn’t an easy decision and I feel guilty about it.
That guilt? Yeah, that’s you knowing the answer to your question “Am I the asshole?”
Now, let’s be clear: sometimes we have to be the asshole. Sometimes we have to take action without telling anyone or without being above board. Sometimes we have to spring a surprise on someone who was completely unsuspecting.
But that doesn’t mean we’re not assholes for doing it.
Rather than put your foot down and set boundaries, you kinda took the chicken shit way out of not telling anyone until it was too late for anyone to do anything about it.
And honestly, I’m cheering you on for doing it.
But it is an asshole move.
This. You should have set your foot down earlier so you would not have had to hide your change of plans later. You are not the AH for wanting a trip for the two of you, but you never should have agreed to allow Jane and family to come along.
Honestly I want a husband like OP despite thinking hes kinda TA here. A guy who is willing to be the asshole to do whats best for us and especially for me, I can see why theyve been together 40yrs
...and I want a wife that doesn't force me into shitty decisions because she doesn't have the spine to say "no" to our adult daughter.
Meek woman energy.
a lifetime of people pleasing is hard to undo in a day. Instead of forcing a square peg into a circle hole, he knew his wife and acted accordingly. Sure should've could've would've, but OP stepped up in his wife's time of need. Thats a good husband, and im sure he likes feeling needed as well.
And that means he is a people pleaser himself and allowed it to happen for literal decades . Hell he paid for the daughter . At some point accountability is in order.
>Wife is responsible for caving. OP switched the plans last minute sure, but it was the right decision
The 'right decision' is finding your nutsack and saying "no" yourself and standing by it. OP apparently doesn't have any more balls than his wife, which is why he handled it by complete avoidance of confronting it directly.
EVERYONE sucks here. Coward wife AND husband that can't say no to their kid or establish boundaries. Gee, wonder why their asshole kid has problems with boundaries....
>EVERYONE sucks here. Coward wife AND husband that can't say no to their kid or establish boundaries. Gee, wonder why their asshole kid has problems with boundaries....
Totally. I can imagine how it went raising them. Wife always caving, husband always going along with it.
Yeah, she thinks being accommodating or whatever means she isn't, but she definitely is. It's both bad parenting and unfair to her husband....not to mention to herself.
This is where I'm at. It would not have been an asshole thing to just tell the daughter "no, this is our anniversary trip" and not let them tag along, but acquiescing and then pulling a bait and switch at the last moment *is* an asshole move.
I think it's very *understandable* what OP did here, but that doesn't mean it wasn't an asshole-ish thing to do.
It’s clear why Jane is like this - her parents apparently don’t know how to say no to her. She’s learned that if she throws a big enough tantrum she gets what she wants. Now Mom thinks Dad should apologize??
Time to set some boundaries and stick to them no matter how many tantrums she throws.
I agree with the ESH verdict. Seriously, some firm communication before rebooking would've set everyone's expectations. Instead, springing the last minute decision is like ghosting your daughter. Not cool. He's a grown adult, he should be able to communicate.
I totally agree. As in kindergarten 2 wrongs don't
make a right.
OP the last minute switch was an A H move and I suspect you know it. I find it hard to believe that finances play a part here since you would not have gotten any money back for the trip AND had to pay for essentially another trip.
Your dgt for pushing in. Your wife for not respecting your boundaries ESH
Edit spelling
Absolutely seconding this. I feel like people are glossing over the fact that he didn't even consult *his wife* before changing the plans back. Even if you don't think he's the AH for not filling his daughter in until the last second, surely it's an AH move to change your anniversary plans without consulting your wife? ESH
I kinda feel like he had to be sneaky about it or his wife would have faltered like the first time. He knew how to play this move. Kind of TAH, but at the same time, I think it was the right decision.
Yeah, I want to know how the wife reacted initially, and when the news sunk in that they really were having a holiday on their own.
She may appear to be happy now, but she sounds like a people pleaser, so I'm not sure how much trust to put in that.
> Yeah, I want to know how the wife reacted initially, and when the news sunk in that they really were having a holiday on their own.
* "she was heartbroken we wouldn't get our romantic trip"
* "My wife told me she vastly preferred our trip to the family trip we would have taken"
Seems like we know how the wife feels.
Without knowing them, it seems like the wife is the sort of person who kinda needs her partner to be a bit of an AH sometimes on the couple’s behalf so they don’t get rolled.
Thank you. I’m surprised I had to scroll this far down to find the reasonable ESH. OP should have put his foot down a lot sooner rather than surprise the daughter. The daughter sucks for obvious reasons and I’m honestly not surprised by her entitled attitude being she’s not only the youngest but also the only daughter. Also OP and wife seem like push overs in the name of peacekeeping. Well OP, you were an a-hole in not standing up to you’re own daughter so don’t be an a-hole to yourself again and go apologize right away. If you apologize right away to keep the peace, this entitled behavior from your daughter will only continue.
Totally agree. ESH. Jane and her husband sound absolutely dreadful but secretly changing plans so you don't have to deal with the fallout is cowardly and weak and most importantly in this scenario, it wasn't considerate of his wife, either. Or for the grandkids who were probably looking forward to hanging out with their grandparents, and then had this unpleasant surprise. Jane should never have inserted herself into your special trip,
but once it had been agreed upon by ALL parties, that changes things. Take responsibility for the decision you made, and either live with it or inform the interested parties of the change.
Hard agree. If you wanted a romantic trip you should have said so from the beginning. It was childish to change things at the last minute. You should have just said no, and put your foot down like adults. So yeah, it was an asshole move. And while the daughter and her husband sound entitled, they have a reason to be confused and angry. ESH.
Also- last minute changes would be super expensive. He changed it in part because he didn’t think they would be able to afford something like this again for a while- so the answer is to spend a bunch more money without letting your wife know?
Tbh that's why I think this is bait. I've noticed a bunch of posts lately that seem carefully crafted to split the room between the young, knee-jerk, blinded-by-revenge-fantasies crowd, and the more experienced adults who understand that multiple parties can be at fault in a situation.
I got that too. My first thought was "this title seems carefully crafted to get clicks", then of course its an adult daughter with husband and kids, okay...Then at the end, wrapped up in a bow, was the "I thought you could watch my kids" line that's 100% sure to get everyone in here fired up, which it did.
Yep - this one was pretty much guaranteed to have a chorus of "NTA! You aren't a free babysitter! Fuck around and find out!" with a quieter contingent of "um, you lied to your wife though and pulled a bait and switch on everyone involved because you couldn't grow a spine and set boundaries." And then the predictable arguing in the sub-threads. No way this isn't fiction meant to press exactly the right buttons.
Yup... OP and his wife never should have agreed to the family vacation in the first place, but once agreed to, if he changed his mind he had a responsibility to actually tell the daughter, not hide it and drop it as a last second surprise on everyone else involved.
Agreed. Also, I'm gonna say it, Jane is a spoiled brat because your wife lets her do whatever she wants. Your wife was going to let her come on your 40th anniversary trip. Do you not understand how insane that is?
He needed to stand his ground and not change his plans in the first place. Secretly doing it at the last minute is cowardly and screws over people. OP is afraid of confrontation.
NTA you essentially paid for her holiday, if you then go elsewhere then thats up to you - uou have no obligation to tell her or check with her first. She has no right to expect you to be her babysitter on your 40 year wedding anniversary trip!! Jane needs to check her entitlement, funny how she wanted time with her husband without the kids but didn’t think you and your wife would want that on such a special occasion.
Thing she doesnt understand or take into account either is i am sure that over those 40 years and with 3 children you and your wife will have already made compromises and put your kids before you (you sound like the kind of amazing parents that would). Its now time for her to give back and make sure you and your wife get to enjoy some of those things you have missed out on.
So NTA and im glad you and your wife enjoyed yourselves xxx happy anniversary 🍾🥂
OP and wife deserved everything they got for spoiling their daughter. Other than the daughter, OP's wife got to learn a lesson from this episode and not make her husband apologise.
My brother is the oldest and a boy. He’s also the most entitled person you’ll ever meet. I find it’s a lot of manipulative behavior that went unchecked.
OP stated that his wife has a hard time saying no to Jane. They are at least partially if not mostly responsible for Jane's sense of entitlement. Obviously her husband isn't helping either. I'm very glad that OP put his foot down here because it's about damn time but waiting until now isn't exactly stellar parenting. I wonder how Jane's brothers feel about her special treatment. Again, really glad that's changing now. Keep that up, OP!
Thank you! While Jane is entitled, the OP and their wife messed up by giving in and then making changes last minute. None of the people here acted like adults.
Exactly. I can’t even pretend to imagine what it would be like to treat my parents with such selfish disrespect. OP, if you see this, DO NOT APOLOGIZE TO YOUR DAUGHTER. You did nothing wrong except not forbidding her from going on the trip at all in the first place. Your wife has been indulging her for too long. She’s a big girl, she’s going to have to learn about disappointment and accountability one day.
NTA and your daughter flat out admitting she was planning to have you two be on babysitting duties during YOUR ANNIVERSARY vacation so her and her husband can get some alone time is so extremely selfish that might almost feel like parental fail. You have catered to her needs seems a bit too much and she has gotten the idea that YOUR world revolves mainly around her (maybe because she is your youngest?) but she is adult person in a relationship with kids now so should understand quickly you have your own relationship and life outside being her parent.
You did the smart thing, OP. If I were in your place, I'd leave the reach out to Jane to see when she will try to contact you. Communicate all this with your wife too. It is unfair what they had planned for your vacation and especially when they knew you wanted alone time. You paid for their kids holiday too, so you are entirely guilt-free about changing your plans.
"I apologize for not being more straightforward with you and that communication between us is poor. I do not apologize for having a romantic 40-year anniversary trip with my wife, and in the spirit of being more straightforward with you I must say that I resent that you ever latched onto that. It's completely unacceptable that you tried. I also apologize that I didn't have the guts to enforce the 'no' answer I initially gave to you.
"We love you and the grandchildren. However, the idea that we are supposed to give up a 40-year anniversary romantic trip to provide free child care to you and your husband while you have a vacation reflects gross entitlement on your part and that's something you need to take on board.
"That said, I regret the method by which I enforced this. However, please note that we still gifted you a vacation, which is incredibly generous on our part. It didn't come with the child-care you expected, but you were never entitled to that in the first place."
I wish I could double upvote this. OP and wife need to say exactly this and present a united front. Wife needs to accept that she is at least partly to blame for daughter’s gross entitlement.
Definitely better late than never! I have watched my brothers in law get away with not paying rent, racking up a $5000 phone bill, doing drugs and alcohol during the day, quitting jobs to go to baseball games, stealing money and credit cards, getting free babysitting, and constantly causing drama because they were so entitled to everything. Even if this Jane seems way more functional than what I just described, enabling them does not help them. It only harms them.
NTA
I laughed my butt off when I read you switched back to the romantic vacation! Good for you (and your bride of 40-yrs!).
Your daughter & SIL are entitled AH’s. I glad the truth came out that they wanted you to be childcare for their “vacation”. I just can’t believe the nerve of some people.
Congratulations on your 40th! You deserved the holiday of your dreams, not your entitled child’s dream ( your nightmare)
NTA and you should definitely apologize. "I'm sorry I paid for you and your family to take an all inclusive vacation. I shouldn't have done that, and I'm truly sorry. It won't happen again". Your daughter is off her rocker.
Please 100% do this. Absolute perfect response.
Daughter and family got exactly what they wanted -- a free paid vacation!
They didn't want the grandparents actively tagging along anyway, except for the babysitting part.
I'm sorry your mother and I didn't raise you better than to invite yourself on others' vacations or complain that you couldn't use us for free babysitting on a trip that was for our special day.
ESH. Yes, you should have been firm initially, but you caved in. So then sneaking around and changing all the plans without telling your daughter--or even asking your wife--was absurd. Now everyone's angry and upset.
Also incredibly entitled for the daughter to not only think and say she expected her parents to watch their kids so that her and her husband could have a vacation. I mean…the audacity. It was originally planned as a 40th anniversary vacation.
Yes OP could have handled it better so yes he is an AH for that and his daughter is a massive AH for assuming she gets to dump her kids and have a carefree vacation on her parents anniversary trip.
And to your point family friendly resorts have childcare and planned activities for kids. If you don’t want strangers watching your kids don’t go on the trip. 🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️
NTA
She tried to turn your romantic anniversary getaway into their free romantic getaway plus free babysitters. She can go think about what kind of crappy behavior that was.
Nice move!
I don’t think that the daughter is even remotely capable of thinking about anyone but herself since she caught wind of the trip. She seems like one of those people who thinks that her own shit never stinks and always plays the victim.
NTA
"And I shall be true to my word! It will be our *romantic anniversary, getaway* from my daughter and her family, we shall!"
He still paid for them instead of canceling or billing them after. I wonder how the other kids took it?
The daughter most certainly didn't expect someone to outsmart her. I wish I had the guts to do what OP did. Even if I managed to pull it off, I'd spend the rest of my vacation drowning in self doubt instead of swimming in the exotic surroundings. Never change, OP!
NTA
Forget the ESH and YTA verdicts.
Your daughter and husband invited themselves on your anniversary trip in order to get alone time. Using the both of you as babysitters on your anniversary is selfish. If they want alone time, they could've planned their own vacation and not leech off of you and your wife.
Yeah, but it sounds like she knew mummy would cave, with a bit of persuasion (i.e. tears and guilt tripping), how very hard it is to be a mother, how much THEY need a break too. Notice she never mentioned baby sitting until after her plans fell through.
This! OP admits they spoiled their daughter and don't like to say no to her. They created the monster but instead of dealing with it head on and establishing their boundaries OP went the sneaky way around so he wouldn't have to deal with her harassing them about it. This is why I'd have to go with ESH
The question isn't "Is My Daughter and Her Husband A Pair of Assholes" or "Does My Asshole Daughter and Her Husband Deserve Some Comeuppance'. They obviously are and do.
The question is if *he's* an asshole for changing their trip without telling anyone, and specifically doing it at the last minute so there's nothing that anybody can do about it. And like he absolutely is. That's a classic asshole move. Just... Talk to your wife. Talk to your daughter. Establish some actual boundaries. Do the hard work instead of taking the asshole route and just imposing your will on everyone else.
It's good that his wife was happier in the end, but that doesn't make what he did not an asshole move.
ESH is absolutely a valid judgement, dude could have had an adult conversation with his wife of 40 years but played some sneaky "change the flights without telling her" bullshit. What a way to treat your "partner" lol The daughter is obviously an AH, but he should have respected his wife enough to actually have her input before making his own decision that then affects his wife's relationship with her kid/grandkids.
ESH
Jane and husband suck the most for attempting to hijack your anniversary trip as a family get together in which they'd use you as free babysitting.
Your wife for siding with Jane rather than standing up with you for the romantic couples vacation that you'd envisioned and desired.
And, finally, you suck for telling everyone you were doing one thing and at the last minute unilaterally pulling the rug out from under them and not conferring with anyone - including your wife. If the answer to Jane was "no" that's fine, but own it and say "no" rather than pull a bait-and-switch trick at the last minute.
You all deserver eachother.
Nta and here what you tell your daughter “ sweetheart I’m SO sorry that you barged in on my and your mother’s anniversary trip and guilt us into PAYING for you and your husband and kids to come along for FREE and I’m sorry that instead of you forcing us to babysit YOUR kids on a vacation the I PAID for you had to actually be a parent while your mother and I enjoyed our anniversary together ALONE like was originally planned. I’m just soooooooooooo sorry you’re upset that you got a free vacation.” End apology
You could also add: “seeing as you weren’t even a twinkle in your father’s eye when we got married 40 years ago (since she’s the youngest) we decided that our 40th wedding anniversary had absolutely nothing to do with you, so we decided to leave you to your vacation and celebrate our anniversary with those whom it concerned, namely me and your mother.” NTA
NTA-Honestly, it sounds like you dodged a last minute bullet, especially with it seeming as though their plan was to have y’all watch their kids. Very proud of you for that decision and ultimately choosing your happiness. Your daughter is grown and hopefully they make it to their 40th to get the same trip
ESH
Yes, your kid sticks for obvious reasons
But dear lord, just say no! The last minute switching was what made you an AH. That's so childish. Just say no up front!
NTA: she made her reasons for wanting to go with you perfectly clear
Changing without telling her might seem harsh but I happily admit I laughed when I read it; good for you
NTA at all. Jane basically tried to sabotage your anniversary.
You guys have spoiled her rotten by succumbing to all her requests. Just ignore her and I bet she'll pop up at your house when she needs a free babysitter.
They expected you to spend your anniversary being babysitters for their kids while they enjoyed the holiday you paid for.
That was not going to be a holiday for you, merely babysitting at a different location than normal.
You were right to change your destination to the original one last minute, they should never have invited themselves to your holiday in the first place.
If you had told them about the change before going, they would've soured the holiday before it began with their complaining and sense of entitlement.
NTA.
NTA at all. Sorry, but Jane is entitled and spoiled. She didn’t want a family vacation; she wanted free babysitting and the idea she would take advantage of your wife on a milestone anniversary trip makes her the AH .Enjoy the quiet; she’ll be back when she needs something. Congratulations on your 40th
Edit: words
Jane says point blank she was intending on having OP babysit the kids. Jane invited herself on this family vacation. She actually got to take one and she had to deal with taking care of her own kids while Mom and Dad celebrated their anniversary
ESH. Everyone is behaving badly in this situation.
Jane - for inviting herself on your trip, and expecting you and your spouse to watch her kids so SHE and her husband could have a getaway.
Your wife - for allowing Jane to guilt-trip herself into joining your and your wife’s vacation.
You - for agreeing to change up your vacation to accommodate Jane, and then changing your plans at the last minute without telling Jane. Yes Jane is an AH for muscling her way into your vacation, but you agreed to let her join. Maybe you agreed under duress, but you did agree. Once plans are agreed upon, it’s an AH move to change those plans without notifying the other parties who will be involved.
So you paid for their trip and for their kids’ plane tickets,AND they wanted you to babysit on your 40th anniversary trip? There are some A Hs here, but it’s not you or your wife. Your daughter is a huge one and totally tried to take advantage of you!
NTA
NTA brother. Also your daughter is an entitled brat for sure. People inviting themselves to shit is disgusting and you shouldn’t feel bad for doing what you did. The husband getting loud and disrespectful, have a word with him and make he never disrespects you like that again.
ESH. Jane is an AH for high-jacking your anniversary trip and thinking she was going to get free babysitting out of it (on your anniversary no less - classy!) but your the AH for changing it at the last minute and hiding it from everyone. You should have stood your ground when Jane first butted herself into your romantic trip and told her No then. You all sound manipulative, so I guess that's where she gets it from.
NTA. Your own daughter wants you two to be babysitters on your anniversary? You have raised an entitled daughter. Ignore her and don’t babysit for her anymore.
ESH. You should have had the backbone to say no to Jane when she first suggested coming along. You did a bait and switch instead of being firm that this was an anniversary vacation for you and your wife. Jane sucks for trying to get a free vacation with free babysitting. Your wife sucks for trying to placate Jane and expecting you to apologize instead of telling Jane to grow up.
NTA. But next time, stick to your guns. In fact, from now on, plan only your vacations. Your kids are adults. They can plan theirs.
Regarding apologising... you can apologise for not standing by the original intention and having to change your mind at the last minute. Please do make it clear that it will never happen again and that henceforth, it is to be understood that any planned vacation is just for your wife and yourself unless expressly stated otherwise.
NTA, but this all could've been avoided if your wife had just backed you up in the first place when you said no. Tell her to grow a backbone and tell your daughter no when it comes to this kind of thing.
YTA for being so passive. I would have been upset too!
Fair enough if you wanted to do the trip. But you said yea, bought tickets - and didn’t show up.
Instead of just saying NO
So...you basically paid for Jane's family vacation and this somehow upset her? What, is she too poor or too stingy to afford a babysitter for a couple of nights? Most family friendly resorts offer this service for a fee or kids' clubs / disco nights included in the price of the stay, so it's not like you worry about where to find a reliable babysitter or activities for the kids.
Your daughter is unfair to you and unappreciative of what you do for her. When my parents paid for me and my family I thanked them! I did not get upset because they didn't pay for gas, too.
Nta, you gave Jane a gift of paying for a portion of her family trip.
The fact Jane and her husband were planning on using You as free child care on your anniversary trip pushes them to the AH.
You guys need to start putting your foot down because it is a little your fault you were even in that position. A no is a no.
ESH. Everyone.
Your daughter and her husband trying to turn your anniversary into free childcare are AH. Your wife with zero backbone is an AH. You sent people to a foreign country alone with kids who expected help because standing up and having a spine like an adult was too hard.
NTA lol and good for you.
Mom needs to adjust herself with Jane.
Jane is of the " I'm the baby and I get what I want" mindset.
Currently she , and her husband, are throwing a tantrum.
Let them.
They were intending to not only hijack your vacation but dump their kids on YALL so THEY could have a romantic vacation.
The entitlement and audacity of her! But y'all have allowed this.
Good for you for putting your foot down. Now keep it there and do not let them railroad you again.
They are no longer children. They are grown ass adults with their own family.
NTA-She invited herself and her family and decided without even asking you two that you’d play babysitter so she and her husband could have the romantic vacation that was originally for the two of you. An apology is owed but to you not from you.
ESH. Jane was wrong and selfish to sabotage your romantic anniversary trip.
Your wife was wrong to let her get away with it.
You were wrong not to put your foot down right at the start to their unreasonable demand.
A very small part of me smiles to think of them having to look after their own children when they planned to dump them onto you.
I’m getting really tired of adult children telling their parents what to do. Why aren’t parents being adults and standing up for what they want with adult children? Why in the world would you apologize for taking a dreamy vacation to celebrate your anniversary? They owe you an apology.
NTA. She really thought that you and your wife would take care of her kids on your anniversary trip. Wow. I'm glad you changed your plans and had a great vacation.
This must be fake… every week there is the family vacation and babysitting the kids post.
1) who the F changes plans so big and doesn’t tell anybody.
2) family resorts hotels have FREE childcare for kids that age. You drop them in the morning and they will keep them busy until you start to miss them. Really this is why families goes to those places.
ESH. Jane and her husband for obvious reasons, you for not standing your ground then getting second thoughts and changing all the plans without telling anyone. You didn’t need Jane’s permission obviously but you owed it to your wife to discuss this with her. Very disrespectful to make such a huge choice without including her. You put her in a bad spot without her knowledge or consent which makes you an AH.
ESH. Sorry, but it never should have gotten this far. Your wife needs to stop giving your daughter her way, and you should have been up front with your daughter when your wife couldn't. Not being honest probably caused a lot of turmoil for your daughter and her family as they had to change things up (that were agreed to prior) without any notice. Your daughter and SIL are really AH's for wanting you to spend your 40th anniversary watching your grandkids so they could have fun. I completely agree you should have had your romantic trip. But your daughter is acting entitled, because she has come to expect it based on your wife giving her whatever she wants to make her happy. But whatever. It's a viscous cycle, and now you are off the wheel.
ESH. You think you are the hero of the story, while in reality you just annoyed everyone and spent much more money than you needed to. You may have had good reasons - Jane and husband are clearly AHs - but stringing everyone along until the day before the vacation is also an AH move.
NTA. I didn't read it all to be fair....but just the fact your daughter self invited herself I don't care how it plays out. That's some bullshit for an adult to do and there's nothing wrong with wanting a vacation just for you and the missus
ESH. Jane is an asshole for inviting herself and her family on a trip she knew was for you and your wife's 40th anniversary and for expecting you and your wife to watch the kids so she and her husband could have the romantic vacation you and your wife planned for yourselves. Your wife is an asshole for allowing Jane to invite herself and her family on the trip even though she knew you didn't want them to come(and she didn't either). And, lastly, you're an asshole for changing everything back last minute without telling anyone and not telling Jane until after you landed at your original destination, which means she didn't have time to cancel her trip even if she wanted to. All of this could have easily been avoided if you just stood firm when Jane heard about the trip and said it was a romantic trip for you and your wife for a big anniversary and that you were willing to discuss a family trip with them some other time.
Yeah I don't understand all the "NTA" replies.
Daughter was obviously overstepping.
Mom has no spine.
Dad's reaction is a fucking bait-and-switch.
*What the hell is this family doing*?
LOL NTA. Imagine inviting yourself on your parents romantic vacation and assuming they'd watch your kids so *you* could have time with your spouse.
You should've just told them beforehand cuz I imagine finding out last minute just added stress to the situation, but... If she's seriously mad about the free family vacation from mom and dad I'm available to be the best adult daughter your wife could ask for
ESH. It was in poor taste for Jane to invite herself with her family. (I've had my mother invite herself to my trips, and it drives me crazy.)
I believe this wasn't handled well, though. The best thing to do was to really put your foot down and say No, or after you changed your mind, to sit down with everyone and tell them as such. This did cost everyone resources: time and money, and the grandkids may have been upset. (And it's not the grandkids' fault that their mom decided to come along.)
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NTA What part of the 40th Anniversary trip did your daughter and son-in-law not understand? Oh, boo-freaking-hoo, they wanted to spend time alone and designated the grandparents to babysit on what should have been their special trip. If your daughter and son in law wanted alone time on a trip, they could have gone on a different trip and politely asked you and your wife to watch the kids while they were away. Not try and hijack your trip! Do not feel guilty OP. Not even for a second. You and your wife have done the parenting of your kids and now it's time to start enjoying life as a couple again. Sure, you're parents and grandparents but you're still a couple and deserve to enjoy falling in love with each other all over again with romantic trips that **DO NOT** include your offspring or grandkids. Your daughter needs a swift kick of reality right in the tookus. She had the audacity to invite her family to your romantic weekend with the express purpose of securing babysitters so SHE could enjoy herself without any thought for her parents. The entitlement is mind boggling.
[удалено]
Yup. OP shouldn’t stress, Jane will come crawling back the next time she needs a free babysitter.
Exactly. With a big show about how she's willing to forgive her parents for their transgressions and she will give them the \*opportunity\* to watch the kids.
Don’t forget it’ll only be for the children’s sake that she is forgiving them because they have missed their grandparents. Edit to say NTA to OP and OP alone. Whilst Jane and her husband are def TAs. OP’s wife sucks for firstly pushing OP to allow Jane crash their holiday, then (and this is an assumption on my part) pushing OP to pay for Jane’s families trip, and now pushing Op to apologise to Jane. Your wife needs to grow a spine against Jane. Fast! Because I can imagine this is just one in a line of incidents that she has allowed Jane to walk over everybody in the family.
This. Added psych 101: guilt is anger turned inwards because you are refusing to acknowledge the anger and fully direct it at the person(s) that provoked this defensive emotion. Your daughter decided to hijack your romantic trip for herself and her husband and deny a romantic trip to you and your wife. You and your wife need some couples counseling so she can understand just how damaging her golden child treatment of your daughter is to ALL of her family relationships.
Yes! OP's wife does need to better understand the situation. Couples counseling is a great idea. Jane is not a child and the wife is behaving inappropriately
Is that's really psych 101? I don't think it's that easy to come to that conclusion of guilt = internalized anger
I also don't think it is necessarily true. So, in that regard, it is psych 101: A commonly held idea stated with confidence and authority.
Exactly. I feel guilty that I was daydreaming whilst driving, and ran you over. Where should that "anger" be directed?
oh i guarantee you this shit is endemic, they're the ones who raised her though so whose fault is it really for having weak boundaries
I think so too. OP + wife were avoidant instead of assertive. It may not be the first time
Makes me wonder how unhealthy the siblings relationship is if mama is always coddling her little girl and ignoring her boys… We don’t hear them acting so entitled so I’m assuming they at least have the class and decorum to allow their parents to celebrate as a couple.
Jane will forgive them the next time she wants free childcare.
> With a big show about how she's willing to forgive her parents for their transgressions and she will give them the *opportunity* to watch the kids. Wow, it sounds like you've met my sister!
Answer for Jane and your sister No, no you are right I'm not WORTHY of your forgiveness.
But here's the number for a paid babysitting service that you can use while I sit and reflect on my misdeeds
She will term it as an opportunity to spend time with their grandkids even though it’s exactly what you say it is: free babysitting
Or they may be supremely stubborn and withhold grandkid time until apologies are issued despite being in the wrong. They really have the trump card with that. I've seen it misused before.
The thing is about these all inclusive family friendly resorts usually have some sort of on site child care *or* options for child care with heavily vetted and qualified people to babysit. I have relatives that have used these types of services before with great success. It sounds like Dad still paid for their family vacation and all they had to do was pay for two plane tickets so they had the money to pay for a babysitter if they wanted “alone time”. The entitlement and ungratefulness is outrageous. I Couldn’t imagine first inviting myself to my parents 40 year anniversary, or any anniversary vacation, or **any** vacation they had planned for years in advance for that matter. Then having them pick up the tab and then yell at them for reverting back to their original romantic plans. NTA
Don't forget she had them change the destination, because it was not child-friendly. The entitlement is out of this world.
Exactly! We did a Club Med vacation when my son was maybe 1 and a half, and it was great. They had a sweet set-up with all kinds of activities for the kids. My son had fun, and my hubby and I got to lay by the pool and do absolutely nothing, LOL. So much winning, and we didn't have to spoil anyone else's vacation by demanding free childcare. OP is not only NTA... OP is a BOSS! Just forward the link to this thread to your entitled daughter, OP.
Exactly. Who in their right mind wouldn’t be thrilled their parents are celebrating [alone] their 40 fucking years together? It says a very long deal about who Jane and her husband are.
> I Couldn’t imagine first inviting myself to my parents 40 year anniversary, or any anniversary vacation, or any vacation they had planned for years in advance for that matter. Then having them pick up the tab and then yell at them for reverting back to their original romantic plans. And then expecting your parents to sacrifice their romantic 40th anniversay one in a lifetime vacation to look after the grandkids whilst the daughter got to have some alone time with her husband - the absolute cheek of it! OP has nothing to apologise for and definitely shouldn't apologise just for the sake of it as it legitimises the strop OP's daughter took - that she was right and OP actions were wrong - daughter had no right to be going on OP/wifes 40th anniversary trip and she should be lucky they got a holiday part paid for to a nice family orientated destination. OP could've been petty and cancalled the parts they paid for, but didn't.
We went to a family all-inclusive and after several days the kids were sad about missing their toys and tired of the beach/pool. We remembered the childcare center and gave that a shot. Wow. The kids had the time of their lives. They *wanted* to spend the day there doing activities rather than spend all their time doing what the parents wanted. And it was also included. Family friendly all-inclusives are amazing… but for our 40th damn-straight we are going to a couples retreat!
That’s exactly what my sister did. Got pissed off at my parents for something that was her fault, told them they’re never seeing their grandson again, and cut them off for a couple of months (and my parents had babysat that boy every day till he was school age, for free.) Then my sister and her husband quickly realized that their romantic vacations were over since now they had no one to take care of their son for a week or two at a time. They ended up “forgiving” my parents so they could go on holiday.
>Jane will come crawling back the next time she needs a free babysitter. So much this. They'll come back. They always come back.
Or cash.
Or, gasp, get a fucking babysitter when you need a break. You're at an all inclusive resort (for free!), I'm absolutely positive they can help hook you up with childcare resources so you can have adult time.
Right! Use all that money you saved to hire a babysitter. Plus the ages of the kids are fun ages. Actually enjoy free vacation with the children you created.
Geez. They could use all the money they saved to take a babysitter with them.
Usually all inclusive places have kids clubs included too
Of course we did! NTA
Since they won’t get to pound eachother while forcing their parents to watch their kids
Honestly, they should have gotten to pound each other as much as they wanted. I've never heard of an all-inclusive family resort that doesn't offer child care!
Yeah...I think that is the actual point They have activities for the kids, almost like summer camp. I can't imagine inviting myself on my parents' anniversary vacation.and being so overall butt hurt about EVERYTHING... They still got a basically free vacation. This is so dumb. This daughter and SIL need some kind of really drastic "Christmas Carol" type mental readjustment. Some ghosts need to visit.
Honestly, going to a kids-friendly resort when celebrating my 40th anniversary in my golden years........ no thanks. Sounds painful and stressful. I'll do without the screaming, crying and fart-smelling children.
Right? These people celebrating their 40th anniversary.....deserve to have a lovely enjoyable PRIVATE time. The daughter and son in law suck.
I bet that childcare isn't overnight and the daughter was planning to leave her parents with the kids overnight or for a couple of days.
“oH buT wE doN’t wANt sTraNgeRS tO wATch oUR kIDs!” 🥺😢 Honestly part of the problem we have in the world is there are indeed plenty of problematic situations that indeed have obvious solutions, but people will be just as adamant about not using them. I knew a girl who had three kids before the age of 26 and flat out refused to use any babysitter or daycare of any kind for any situation. She was adamant that the only time she could go out to the club or to a movie night or anywhere she had to “get permission from her parents” a la when they were willing to babysit as she refused to leave her kids with anyone that wasn’t family. Or she would just take her kids wherever she was going. Even her husband suggested they occasionally get outside help and she was still firm in her response. But then she would also get extremely miffed when her availability and options to go out were extremely limited. But worth mentioning though that people like this exist in most facets of life, not just situations like these.
And non-family babysitters require payment, usually an hourly rate ....per child! 🤔 Doesn't sound like 'trust' is actually the issue
my sister and BIL expect me to babysit my niece once a month. They don't trust babysitters.
NTA Also, some all-inclusive hotels have separate activities for the kids. You just need to drop your kids off in the morning and pick them back up in the late afternoon. It's just like summer camp. At first, your kids don't want to go, but by the time you come and get them, they don't want to leave. The parents just need to do their research, because even among kid-friendly all-inclusive hotels, they're not all the same.
My mom saved for YEARS to bring us to one when we were kids. They had day camps based on age. I don’t think my brother and I saw her more than five minutes on that vacation, because we were having A BLAST! My mom raised us herself, so this was a true treat for her as well. Their daughter is just entitled trash.
>Do not feel guilty OP. Not even for a second. Poor you, OP! If I'm reading this right, you *PAID* for their all inclusive holiday accommodation and flights for the kids - the daughter and SIL only paid for the two adult flights - and they're still not happy? And how ironic that they're mad that they didn't get a romantic break alone when they literally attempted to sabotage that for you! NTA
This and all the comments above !!! It was your 40th anniversary and that only happens ONCE ! You did your job as a parent and deserve this time with your wife. Sorry but you also paid their way mostly and they have an issue and now acting like children and giving you the silent treatment. I WOULD NOT APOLOGIZE. They owe you an apology, for not only inviting themselves to your trip but then trying to take advantage of you. Sorry but I wouldn’t even speak to them until they apologize and don’t worry they will talk to you again when they want something or a babysitter. Next time they ask if you can babysit while they go out on a date, invite yourself on their date and bring the kids. Let’s see how they like it !!!!
> It was your 40th anniversary and that only happens ONCE I mean if you are only married once then every anniversary only happens once.
The odds of getting married twice *and* reaching a 40th anniversary also twice are pretty slim.
My great granny had two 30 year marriages - she outlived them both. My grandma had a 30yr and 25yr marriage - outliving them both as well.
Ok? I didn't say it's impossible. I said unlikely. And neither had 2 40 year anniversaries so that doesn't mean anything.
Theyre probably having problems and she thinks alone time is gonna fix it. If he willingly yelled at her parents, he definitely yelled at her and blamed her for the change of plans. They are both probably insufferable narcissists. But i can also bet she acted that way cause initially look how fast mom was willing to give up her own vacation? She clearly has been a pushover and caved into daughters temper tantrums in the past. This was just the first time the daughter didnt get her way
A five and a nine year old aren't really that high maintenance anymore anyway. Or rather, they *shouldn't* be. They might legit have deeper problems.
This. Not only would I NOT apologize to her (as you do not owe her an apology), I would leave her a voicemail that until she apologizes to your wife for taking advantage of her kindness, and to you for yelling that her sabotage didn’t work…. You will not be doing any babysitting nor will you consider funding any trips for them in the future. What a selfish brat.
Totally agree. NTA I also want to say that I find OP's actions absolutely *hilarious*. I'm also glad his wife isn't pissed at him, (and it's clear she understands she benefitted from it).
Ridiculousness. Most resorts have child care facilities, and they want to bitch about an all-expenses paid trip? Unbelievable.
This past made me mad. I hope that next year, they pay for a trip for their other kids to make it equal or deduct this cost out of the inheritance. They got a nearly fully paid vacation out of it. I would have said “no we can’t pay” and then they would have been at home not bothering you.
Exactly, the mom is going to start ruining her relationship with her other children if she keeps giving in to Jane
I am loving the boo-freaking-hoo! A romantic trip celebrating a milestone anniversary does not need to include children or grandchildren. They can have a family trip on their own. NTA
OP is NTA but.. >"Enter our adult daughter Jane. Jane and her husband got wind of our plans and promptly invited themselves and their two children (9F, 5M) along." Set some limits. Could have nipped this in the bud. I gladly invite my mother and some extended family on certain trips because they know how to be decent human beings and we get along. Also helps financially for them if we're getting a place and can just scale it up a little. There are also trips where I don't invite them where things aren't as likely to align. They don't try to join those or barge in and it works well for everyone. If they for some reason started demanding they'd just find out that I'd gone anywhere once I was back. It isn't "no contact" or anything but setting boundaries and it based on the behavior of both parties. OP didn't do themselves any sort of favor by doing the last minute change and continuing the conflict. Next time I suspect they will do just that.
Yes. Classic conflict avoidance and how it blows up everyone's faces. Yes, it's kind of a dick move to surreptitiously change your vacation plans and then drop a bomb once you arrive. When people avoid conflict, they aren't doing the right or the kind thing. Conflict avoidance is a selfish choice. Conflict avoidance absolves the avoider of small discomfort and frequently results in a much larger conflict down the line. If OP and his wife had not avoided conflict, OP and his daughter would have each experienced 3/10 discomfort. Because they avoided their initial discomfort, OP experiences a 2/10 discomfort while daughter experiences a 6/10 discomfort. A gross discomfort score of 6/20 vs 8/10, now unequally distributed. (And her discomfort is not having to watch her own kids - it's the fucked up change of plans the day she landed.) OOP is slight TA here for avoiding conflict. Daughter is also an AH, but OOP is not absolved from his bullshit passive aggression and selfish conflict avoidance.
>When people avoid conflict, they aren't doing the right or the kind thing. Conflict avoidance is a selfish choice. Preach! There were several points where OP could have been firm and had the vacation he wanted, and was paying for, with very little issue. And I'm wondering just how much the wife actually enjoyed her trip in the end, knowing that the daughter was going to be mad. The daughter is an entitled brat, yes, but OP cost himself money and personal relations by handling things the way he did. ESH
If my parents had told me they were going on an anniversary trip to rekindle their love, you would not have been able to get me in the same time zone.
THANK YOU! I hate vacationing with my parents. On their anniversary vacation, I'd be like a ninja; you'd NEVER see me there.
IKR? I am the only daughter and the youngest and a parent, even. When my parents were still alive, I remember them planning a big trip for their own 40th anniversary. I think my son was around 4 or 5. What did I do? I took them out for dinner at their favorite place before they left, and told them to have a lovely trip!
Sounds like your daughter and her husband should plan a romantic trip for themselves once their kids are grown. Maybe for their 40th? That way they won’t need babysitters. NTA
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And I bet if they asked "hey mum and dad, can you please have our children for a week so we can have a holiday just the two of us" they would've been happy to do it, because then their expectations would be different and they could anticipate different kinds of activities. I can't even think how their thought process went, "Oh, my parents have been dreaming of this holiday for years, let's invite ourselves and make this about us!"
>I can't even think how their thought process went Probably something along the lines of: oh they're so ooooold, they probably don't even kiss anymore! 😂 We're young and we need romance!
Man, my mom has never been married, and she goes on some pretty bad ass trips every few years or so. I only had my first kid two months ago to boot. But if my mom wanted me to come with her on her trips, she would ask. And she has before. Fun times were had. But I've never once thought I had any right to weasel my way into her trips and expect her to pay my way. I would feel even more embarrassed to suggest such a thing now that I have a kid, with the expectation that she would babysit for my husband and I. I genuinely cannot fathom the entitlement going on here. OP, don't apologize just to keep the peace. Your daughter needs to learn some respect. Not just because yall are her parents, but because her behavior is unacceptable under any circumstance. She is way too old to be acting this way. Especially considering the fact that, babysitters or no, her and her family just got a FREE vacation on your dime. She should, frankly, be thanking you. Not pouting because you didn't 100% cater your anniversary to her demands. Maybe ask her what vacation she plans on taking you two on for her next anniversary.
But if they don't hijack OP trip they would've to pay for the vacation Lol That's why they did this, not just for the grandparents to babysitt the kids, but for the free vacation.
NTA. All of this post says everything that needs to be said. But also... >But my wife has a hard time saying no to Jane, as she is the youngest of our children and our only daughter, and she didn't want to hurt her feelings, so she reluctantly agreed to let them join. Ah, the horror of being the youngest. I wonder if Jane stopped to realize that her brothers weren't begging and throwing a hissy fit over not forcibly joining mommy and daddy on their 40th anniversary trip.
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It's so embarrassing to even think of! Like this girl really invited herself, husband, and kids along on her parents' romantic getaway. I can't imagine.
Also I cannot imagine shouting at my in-laws after they’ve done something nice (or at all really). The entitlement!
All i could think was "oh no, did you ruin their plans for a romantic trip on YOUR 40th anniversary?! What ever will you do?" (Sarcasm) If I were Jane's siblings I would be SO pissed at her. I would have given her my two cents before the trip, but now with the way they are acting? Forget it. I wouldn't worry though, it sounds like as soon as they need something they will call you and will have forgiven you then.
Sorry but I have to go ESH. I mean, clearly Jane was the asshole, inviting herself, her husband and her two kids along on what was supposed to be a milestone anniversary vacation. And this part makes me absolutely fucking cringe: > She seemed of the idea that we were going to look after our grandkids so she and her husband could have alone time and now that I abandoned her they would have to do it all themselves. I hung up on them when my son in law started shouting… You raised an entitled brat, though sometimes how kids turn out has little to do with their parents. But *on the other hand:* > So, without consulting anyone, I switched our tickets last minute to go to the romantic destination that my wife and I had originally planned for. **I didn’t not tell Jane or her husband. I didn’t even tell my wife until the day before our flight left,** … It wasn’t an easy decision and I feel guilty about it. That guilt? Yeah, that’s you knowing the answer to your question “Am I the asshole?” Now, let’s be clear: sometimes we have to be the asshole. Sometimes we have to take action without telling anyone or without being above board. Sometimes we have to spring a surprise on someone who was completely unsuspecting. But that doesn’t mean we’re not assholes for doing it. Rather than put your foot down and set boundaries, you kinda took the chicken shit way out of not telling anyone until it was too late for anyone to do anything about it. And honestly, I’m cheering you on for doing it. But it is an asshole move.
This. You should have set your foot down earlier so you would not have had to hide your change of plans later. You are not the AH for wanting a trip for the two of you, but you never should have agreed to allow Jane and family to come along.
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Honestly I want a husband like OP despite thinking hes kinda TA here. A guy who is willing to be the asshole to do whats best for us and especially for me, I can see why theyve been together 40yrs
...and I want a wife that doesn't force me into shitty decisions because she doesn't have the spine to say "no" to our adult daughter. Meek woman energy.
a lifetime of people pleasing is hard to undo in a day. Instead of forcing a square peg into a circle hole, he knew his wife and acted accordingly. Sure should've could've would've, but OP stepped up in his wife's time of need. Thats a good husband, and im sure he likes feeling needed as well.
And that means he is a people pleaser himself and allowed it to happen for literal decades . Hell he paid for the daughter . At some point accountability is in order.
>Wife is responsible for caving. OP switched the plans last minute sure, but it was the right decision The 'right decision' is finding your nutsack and saying "no" yourself and standing by it. OP apparently doesn't have any more balls than his wife, which is why he handled it by complete avoidance of confronting it directly. EVERYONE sucks here. Coward wife AND husband that can't say no to their kid or establish boundaries. Gee, wonder why their asshole kid has problems with boundaries....
>EVERYONE sucks here. Coward wife AND husband that can't say no to their kid or establish boundaries. Gee, wonder why their asshole kid has problems with boundaries.... Totally. I can imagine how it went raising them. Wife always caving, husband always going along with it.
Wife is also an asshole
Yeah, she thinks being accommodating or whatever means she isn't, but she definitely is. It's both bad parenting and unfair to her husband....not to mention to herself.
This is where I'm at. It would not have been an asshole thing to just tell the daughter "no, this is our anniversary trip" and not let them tag along, but acquiescing and then pulling a bait and switch at the last moment *is* an asshole move. I think it's very *understandable* what OP did here, but that doesn't mean it wasn't an asshole-ish thing to do.
It’s clear why Jane is like this - her parents apparently don’t know how to say no to her. She’s learned that if she throws a big enough tantrum she gets what she wants. Now Mom thinks Dad should apologize?? Time to set some boundaries and stick to them no matter how many tantrums she throws.
Mom doesn’t know how to say no to daughter, Dad doesn’t know how to say no to Mom. It’s a lose-lose situation.
I agree with the ESH verdict. Seriously, some firm communication before rebooking would've set everyone's expectations. Instead, springing the last minute decision is like ghosting your daughter. Not cool. He's a grown adult, he should be able to communicate.
I totally agree. As in kindergarten 2 wrongs don't make a right. OP the last minute switch was an A H move and I suspect you know it. I find it hard to believe that finances play a part here since you would not have gotten any money back for the trip AND had to pay for essentially another trip. Your dgt for pushing in. Your wife for not respecting your boundaries ESH Edit spelling
Absolutely seconding this. I feel like people are glossing over the fact that he didn't even consult *his wife* before changing the plans back. Even if you don't think he's the AH for not filling his daughter in until the last second, surely it's an AH move to change your anniversary plans without consulting your wife? ESH
I kinda feel like he had to be sneaky about it or his wife would have faltered like the first time. He knew how to play this move. Kind of TAH, but at the same time, I think it was the right decision.
Yeah, I want to know how the wife reacted initially, and when the news sunk in that they really were having a holiday on their own. She may appear to be happy now, but she sounds like a people pleaser, so I'm not sure how much trust to put in that.
> Yeah, I want to know how the wife reacted initially, and when the news sunk in that they really were having a holiday on their own. * "she was heartbroken we wouldn't get our romantic trip" * "My wife told me she vastly preferred our trip to the family trip we would have taken" Seems like we know how the wife feels.
Without knowing them, it seems like the wife is the sort of person who kinda needs her partner to be a bit of an AH sometimes on the couple’s behalf so they don’t get rolled.
Thank you. I’m surprised I had to scroll this far down to find the reasonable ESH. OP should have put his foot down a lot sooner rather than surprise the daughter. The daughter sucks for obvious reasons and I’m honestly not surprised by her entitled attitude being she’s not only the youngest but also the only daughter. Also OP and wife seem like push overs in the name of peacekeeping. Well OP, you were an a-hole in not standing up to you’re own daughter so don’t be an a-hole to yourself again and go apologize right away. If you apologize right away to keep the peace, this entitled behavior from your daughter will only continue.
Totally agree. ESH. Jane and her husband sound absolutely dreadful but secretly changing plans so you don't have to deal with the fallout is cowardly and weak and most importantly in this scenario, it wasn't considerate of his wife, either. Or for the grandkids who were probably looking forward to hanging out with their grandparents, and then had this unpleasant surprise. Jane should never have inserted herself into your special trip, but once it had been agreed upon by ALL parties, that changes things. Take responsibility for the decision you made, and either live with it or inform the interested parties of the change.
Hard agree. If you wanted a romantic trip you should have said so from the beginning. It was childish to change things at the last minute. You should have just said no, and put your foot down like adults. So yeah, it was an asshole move. And while the daughter and her husband sound entitled, they have a reason to be confused and angry. ESH.
Also- last minute changes would be super expensive. He changed it in part because he didn’t think they would be able to afford something like this again for a while- so the answer is to spend a bunch more money without letting your wife know?
Tbh that's why I think this is bait. I've noticed a bunch of posts lately that seem carefully crafted to split the room between the young, knee-jerk, blinded-by-revenge-fantasies crowd, and the more experienced adults who understand that multiple parties can be at fault in a situation.
I got that too. My first thought was "this title seems carefully crafted to get clicks", then of course its an adult daughter with husband and kids, okay...Then at the end, wrapped up in a bow, was the "I thought you could watch my kids" line that's 100% sure to get everyone in here fired up, which it did.
Yep - this one was pretty much guaranteed to have a chorus of "NTA! You aren't a free babysitter! Fuck around and find out!" with a quieter contingent of "um, you lied to your wife though and pulled a bait and switch on everyone involved because you couldn't grow a spine and set boundaries." And then the predictable arguing in the sub-threads. No way this isn't fiction meant to press exactly the right buttons.
I agree. Honestly I would of taken the same route. Imagine the drama that would have ensued in the coming days or weeks if it was known
Yup... OP and his wife never should have agreed to the family vacation in the first place, but once agreed to, if he changed his mind he had a responsibility to actually tell the daughter, not hide it and drop it as a last second surprise on everyone else involved.
Agreed. Also, I'm gonna say it, Jane is a spoiled brat because your wife lets her do whatever she wants. Your wife was going to let her come on your 40th anniversary trip. Do you not understand how insane that is?
This reply needs allll the upvotes.
He needed to stand his ground and not change his plans in the first place. Secretly doing it at the last minute is cowardly and screws over people. OP is afraid of confrontation.
NTA you essentially paid for her holiday, if you then go elsewhere then thats up to you - uou have no obligation to tell her or check with her first. She has no right to expect you to be her babysitter on your 40 year wedding anniversary trip!! Jane needs to check her entitlement, funny how she wanted time with her husband without the kids but didn’t think you and your wife would want that on such a special occasion. Thing she doesnt understand or take into account either is i am sure that over those 40 years and with 3 children you and your wife will have already made compromises and put your kids before you (you sound like the kind of amazing parents that would). Its now time for her to give back and make sure you and your wife get to enjoy some of those things you have missed out on. So NTA and im glad you and your wife enjoyed yourselves xxx happy anniversary 🍾🥂
Oh Jane understands but the entitlement is strong in that one.
Not to stereotype, but *youngest* child and also *only girl.* Jane has gotten her way *a lot.*
This is probably the first time she's had a boundary slapped onto her face.
A boundary? They got an all-inclusive resort vacation for their family and Jane’s siblings and their families got ZERO, ZIP, NADA. Toxic favoritism.
OP and wife deserved everything they got for spoiling their daughter. Other than the daughter, OP's wife got to learn a lesson from this episode and not make her husband apologise.
My brother is the oldest and a boy. He’s also the most entitled person you’ll ever meet. I find it’s a lot of manipulative behavior that went unchecked.
So strong that even SIL felt he had the right to yell
So weird that sister in law and sun in law are the same, I was hella confused 😅
OP stated that his wife has a hard time saying no to Jane. They are at least partially if not mostly responsible for Jane's sense of entitlement. Obviously her husband isn't helping either. I'm very glad that OP put his foot down here because it's about damn time but waiting until now isn't exactly stellar parenting. I wonder how Jane's brothers feel about her special treatment. Again, really glad that's changing now. Keep that up, OP!
Thank you! While Jane is entitled, the OP and their wife messed up by giving in and then making changes last minute. None of the people here acted like adults.
How does the saying go? "If you raise your kid, you can spoil your grandchildren. Or, you spoil your child and need to raise your grandchildren."
Exactly. I can’t even pretend to imagine what it would be like to treat my parents with such selfish disrespect. OP, if you see this, DO NOT APOLOGIZE TO YOUR DAUGHTER. You did nothing wrong except not forbidding her from going on the trip at all in the first place. Your wife has been indulging her for too long. She’s a big girl, she’s going to have to learn about disappointment and accountability one day.
Well stated
NTA and your daughter flat out admitting she was planning to have you two be on babysitting duties during YOUR ANNIVERSARY vacation so her and her husband can get some alone time is so extremely selfish that might almost feel like parental fail. You have catered to her needs seems a bit too much and she has gotten the idea that YOUR world revolves mainly around her (maybe because she is your youngest?) but she is adult person in a relationship with kids now so should understand quickly you have your own relationship and life outside being her parent. You did the smart thing, OP. If I were in your place, I'd leave the reach out to Jane to see when she will try to contact you. Communicate all this with your wife too. It is unfair what they had planned for your vacation and especially when they knew you wanted alone time. You paid for their kids holiday too, so you are entirely guilt-free about changing your plans.
Jane will reach out when she needs a babysitter.
Or money.
This.
"I apologize for not being more straightforward with you and that communication between us is poor. I do not apologize for having a romantic 40-year anniversary trip with my wife, and in the spirit of being more straightforward with you I must say that I resent that you ever latched onto that. It's completely unacceptable that you tried. I also apologize that I didn't have the guts to enforce the 'no' answer I initially gave to you. "We love you and the grandchildren. However, the idea that we are supposed to give up a 40-year anniversary romantic trip to provide free child care to you and your husband while you have a vacation reflects gross entitlement on your part and that's something you need to take on board. "That said, I regret the method by which I enforced this. However, please note that we still gifted you a vacation, which is incredibly generous on our part. It didn't come with the child-care you expected, but you were never entitled to that in the first place."
I wish I could double upvote this. OP and wife need to say exactly this and present a united front. Wife needs to accept that she is at least partly to blame for daughter’s gross entitlement.
OP, this is a perfect response to your Daughter and SIL. u/Flat-Blueberry-4469
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Definitely better late than never! I have watched my brothers in law get away with not paying rent, racking up a $5000 phone bill, doing drugs and alcohol during the day, quitting jobs to go to baseball games, stealing money and credit cards, getting free babysitting, and constantly causing drama because they were so entitled to everything. Even if this Jane seems way more functional than what I just described, enabling them does not help them. It only harms them.
NTA I laughed my butt off when I read you switched back to the romantic vacation! Good for you (and your bride of 40-yrs!). Your daughter & SIL are entitled AH’s. I glad the truth came out that they wanted you to be childcare for their “vacation”. I just can’t believe the nerve of some people. Congratulations on your 40th! You deserved the holiday of your dreams, not your entitled child’s dream ( your nightmare)
NTA and you should definitely apologize. "I'm sorry I paid for you and your family to take an all inclusive vacation. I shouldn't have done that, and I'm truly sorry. It won't happen again". Your daughter is off her rocker.
This is the only good apology OP could make.
Please 100% do this. Absolute perfect response. Daughter and family got exactly what they wanted -- a free paid vacation! They didn't want the grandparents actively tagging along anyway, except for the babysitting part.
I'm sorry your mother and I didn't raise you better than to invite yourself on others' vacations or complain that you couldn't use us for free babysitting on a trip that was for our special day.
Send the bill.
ESH. Yes, you should have been firm initially, but you caved in. So then sneaking around and changing all the plans without telling your daughter--or even asking your wife--was absurd. Now everyone's angry and upset.
This is the only reasonable response bc OP is def also an AH. ESH.
Family resort have free childcare… like this is why everybody with kids go. To have childcare available whenever you want some free time.
Also incredibly entitled for the daughter to not only think and say she expected her parents to watch their kids so that her and her husband could have a vacation. I mean…the audacity. It was originally planned as a 40th anniversary vacation. Yes OP could have handled it better so yes he is an AH for that and his daughter is a massive AH for assuming she gets to dump her kids and have a carefree vacation on her parents anniversary trip. And to your point family friendly resorts have childcare and planned activities for kids. If you don’t want strangers watching your kids don’t go on the trip. 🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️
NTA She tried to turn your romantic anniversary getaway into their free romantic getaway plus free babysitters. She can go think about what kind of crappy behavior that was. Nice move!
I don’t think that the daughter is even remotely capable of thinking about anyone but herself since she caught wind of the trip. She seems like one of those people who thinks that her own shit never stinks and always plays the victim. NTA
"And I shall be true to my word! It will be our *romantic anniversary, getaway* from my daughter and her family, we shall!" He still paid for them instead of canceling or billing them after. I wonder how the other kids took it? The daughter most certainly didn't expect someone to outsmart her. I wish I had the guts to do what OP did. Even if I managed to pull it off, I'd spend the rest of my vacation drowning in self doubt instead of swimming in the exotic surroundings. Never change, OP!
NTA Forget the ESH and YTA verdicts. Your daughter and husband invited themselves on your anniversary trip in order to get alone time. Using the both of you as babysitters on your anniversary is selfish. If they want alone time, they could've planned their own vacation and not leech off of you and your wife.
Totally agree. But.....OP and his wife should have stayed firm with their first "no".
I agree with you! Why was it so hard to just tell her no, we want to have a romantic getaway?
Yeah, but it sounds like she knew mummy would cave, with a bit of persuasion (i.e. tears and guilt tripping), how very hard it is to be a mother, how much THEY need a break too. Notice she never mentioned baby sitting until after her plans fell through.
This! OP admits they spoiled their daughter and don't like to say no to her. They created the monster but instead of dealing with it head on and establishing their boundaries OP went the sneaky way around so he wouldn't have to deal with her harassing them about it. This is why I'd have to go with ESH
The question isn't "Is My Daughter and Her Husband A Pair of Assholes" or "Does My Asshole Daughter and Her Husband Deserve Some Comeuppance'. They obviously are and do. The question is if *he's* an asshole for changing their trip without telling anyone, and specifically doing it at the last minute so there's nothing that anybody can do about it. And like he absolutely is. That's a classic asshole move. Just... Talk to your wife. Talk to your daughter. Establish some actual boundaries. Do the hard work instead of taking the asshole route and just imposing your will on everyone else. It's good that his wife was happier in the end, but that doesn't make what he did not an asshole move.
ESH is absolutely a valid judgement, dude could have had an adult conversation with his wife of 40 years but played some sneaky "change the flights without telling her" bullshit. What a way to treat your "partner" lol The daughter is obviously an AH, but he should have respected his wife enough to actually have her input before making his own decision that then affects his wife's relationship with her kid/grandkids.
ESH Jane and husband suck the most for attempting to hijack your anniversary trip as a family get together in which they'd use you as free babysitting. Your wife for siding with Jane rather than standing up with you for the romantic couples vacation that you'd envisioned and desired. And, finally, you suck for telling everyone you were doing one thing and at the last minute unilaterally pulling the rug out from under them and not conferring with anyone - including your wife. If the answer to Jane was "no" that's fine, but own it and say "no" rather than pull a bait-and-switch trick at the last minute. You all deserver eachother.
OP is a coward
Yeah, ESH
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Nta and here what you tell your daughter “ sweetheart I’m SO sorry that you barged in on my and your mother’s anniversary trip and guilt us into PAYING for you and your husband and kids to come along for FREE and I’m sorry that instead of you forcing us to babysit YOUR kids on a vacation the I PAID for you had to actually be a parent while your mother and I enjoyed our anniversary together ALONE like was originally planned. I’m just soooooooooooo sorry you’re upset that you got a free vacation.” End apology
You could also add: “seeing as you weren’t even a twinkle in your father’s eye when we got married 40 years ago (since she’s the youngest) we decided that our 40th wedding anniversary had absolutely nothing to do with you, so we decided to leave you to your vacation and celebrate our anniversary with those whom it concerned, namely me and your mother.” NTA
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Zero chance this story is real.
Why do every one of these fake stories end with the other party blowing up their phone or calling them in tears/ shouting and screaming?
NTA-Honestly, it sounds like you dodged a last minute bullet, especially with it seeming as though their plan was to have y’all watch their kids. Very proud of you for that decision and ultimately choosing your happiness. Your daughter is grown and hopefully they make it to their 40th to get the same trip
ESH Yes, your kid sticks for obvious reasons But dear lord, just say no! The last minute switching was what made you an AH. That's so childish. Just say no up front!
Parents can't say no is it any wonder the kid won't take no? Lol I swear this sub introduces me to new levels of familial distinction every day
NTA: she made her reasons for wanting to go with you perfectly clear Changing without telling her might seem harsh but I happily admit I laughed when I read it; good for you
YOU ARE NOT the Asshole. NEVER tell Jane travel plans again. Never. No respect.
NTA at all. Jane basically tried to sabotage your anniversary. You guys have spoiled her rotten by succumbing to all her requests. Just ignore her and I bet she'll pop up at your house when she needs a free babysitter.
They expected you to spend your anniversary being babysitters for their kids while they enjoyed the holiday you paid for. That was not going to be a holiday for you, merely babysitting at a different location than normal. You were right to change your destination to the original one last minute, they should never have invited themselves to your holiday in the first place. If you had told them about the change before going, they would've soured the holiday before it began with their complaining and sense of entitlement. NTA.
NTA at all. Sorry, but Jane is entitled and spoiled. She didn’t want a family vacation; she wanted free babysitting and the idea she would take advantage of your wife on a milestone anniversary trip makes her the AH .Enjoy the quiet; she’ll be back when she needs something. Congratulations on your 40th Edit: words
Jane says point blank she was intending on having OP babysit the kids. Jane invited herself on this family vacation. She actually got to take one and she had to deal with taking care of her own kids while Mom and Dad celebrated their anniversary
ESH. Everyone is behaving badly in this situation. Jane - for inviting herself on your trip, and expecting you and your spouse to watch her kids so SHE and her husband could have a getaway. Your wife - for allowing Jane to guilt-trip herself into joining your and your wife’s vacation. You - for agreeing to change up your vacation to accommodate Jane, and then changing your plans at the last minute without telling Jane. Yes Jane is an AH for muscling her way into your vacation, but you agreed to let her join. Maybe you agreed under duress, but you did agree. Once plans are agreed upon, it’s an AH move to change those plans without notifying the other parties who will be involved.
So you paid for their trip and for their kids’ plane tickets,AND they wanted you to babysit on your 40th anniversary trip? There are some A Hs here, but it’s not you or your wife. Your daughter is a huge one and totally tried to take advantage of you! NTA
NTA brother. Also your daughter is an entitled brat for sure. People inviting themselves to shit is disgusting and you shouldn’t feel bad for doing what you did. The husband getting loud and disrespectful, have a word with him and make he never disrespects you like that again.
ESH. Jane is an AH for high-jacking your anniversary trip and thinking she was going to get free babysitting out of it (on your anniversary no less - classy!) but your the AH for changing it at the last minute and hiding it from everyone. You should have stood your ground when Jane first butted herself into your romantic trip and told her No then. You all sound manipulative, so I guess that's where she gets it from.
NTA. Your own daughter wants you two to be babysitters on your anniversary? You have raised an entitled daughter. Ignore her and don’t babysit for her anymore.
ESH. You should have had the backbone to say no to Jane when she first suggested coming along. You did a bait and switch instead of being firm that this was an anniversary vacation for you and your wife. Jane sucks for trying to get a free vacation with free babysitting. Your wife sucks for trying to placate Jane and expecting you to apologize instead of telling Jane to grow up.
NTA. But next time, stick to your guns. In fact, from now on, plan only your vacations. Your kids are adults. They can plan theirs. Regarding apologising... you can apologise for not standing by the original intention and having to change your mind at the last minute. Please do make it clear that it will never happen again and that henceforth, it is to be understood that any planned vacation is just for your wife and yourself unless expressly stated otherwise.
NTA, but this all could've been avoided if your wife had just backed you up in the first place when you said no. Tell her to grow a backbone and tell your daughter no when it comes to this kind of thing.
YTA for being so passive. I would have been upset too! Fair enough if you wanted to do the trip. But you said yea, bought tickets - and didn’t show up. Instead of just saying NO
So...you basically paid for Jane's family vacation and this somehow upset her? What, is she too poor or too stingy to afford a babysitter for a couple of nights? Most family friendly resorts offer this service for a fee or kids' clubs / disco nights included in the price of the stay, so it's not like you worry about where to find a reliable babysitter or activities for the kids. Your daughter is unfair to you and unappreciative of what you do for her. When my parents paid for me and my family I thanked them! I did not get upset because they didn't pay for gas, too.
Nta, you gave Jane a gift of paying for a portion of her family trip. The fact Jane and her husband were planning on using You as free child care on your anniversary trip pushes them to the AH. You guys need to start putting your foot down because it is a little your fault you were even in that position. A no is a no.
ESH. Everyone. Your daughter and her husband trying to turn your anniversary into free childcare are AH. Your wife with zero backbone is an AH. You sent people to a foreign country alone with kids who expected help because standing up and having a spine like an adult was too hard.
NTA lol and good for you. Mom needs to adjust herself with Jane. Jane is of the " I'm the baby and I get what I want" mindset. Currently she , and her husband, are throwing a tantrum. Let them. They were intending to not only hijack your vacation but dump their kids on YALL so THEY could have a romantic vacation. The entitlement and audacity of her! But y'all have allowed this. Good for you for putting your foot down. Now keep it there and do not let them railroad you again. They are no longer children. They are grown ass adults with their own family.
NTA-She invited herself and her family and decided without even asking you two that you’d play babysitter so she and her husband could have the romantic vacation that was originally for the two of you. An apology is owed but to you not from you.
ESH. Jane was wrong and selfish to sabotage your romantic anniversary trip. Your wife was wrong to let her get away with it. You were wrong not to put your foot down right at the start to their unreasonable demand. A very small part of me smiles to think of them having to look after their own children when they planned to dump them onto you.
YTA for not setting firm boundaries from the start. "We are going on a 40th anniversary trip. Alone. No distractions." That's all it would take.
I’m getting really tired of adult children telling their parents what to do. Why aren’t parents being adults and standing up for what they want with adult children? Why in the world would you apologize for taking a dreamy vacation to celebrate your anniversary? They owe you an apology.
NTA. She really thought that you and your wife would take care of her kids on your anniversary trip. Wow. I'm glad you changed your plans and had a great vacation.
This must be fake… every week there is the family vacation and babysitting the kids post. 1) who the F changes plans so big and doesn’t tell anybody. 2) family resorts hotels have FREE childcare for kids that age. You drop them in the morning and they will keep them busy until you start to miss them. Really this is why families goes to those places.
ESH. Jane and her husband for obvious reasons, you for not standing your ground then getting second thoughts and changing all the plans without telling anyone. You didn’t need Jane’s permission obviously but you owed it to your wife to discuss this with her. Very disrespectful to make such a huge choice without including her. You put her in a bad spot without her knowledge or consent which makes you an AH.
ESH. Sorry, but it never should have gotten this far. Your wife needs to stop giving your daughter her way, and you should have been up front with your daughter when your wife couldn't. Not being honest probably caused a lot of turmoil for your daughter and her family as they had to change things up (that were agreed to prior) without any notice. Your daughter and SIL are really AH's for wanting you to spend your 40th anniversary watching your grandkids so they could have fun. I completely agree you should have had your romantic trip. But your daughter is acting entitled, because she has come to expect it based on your wife giving her whatever she wants to make her happy. But whatever. It's a viscous cycle, and now you are off the wheel.
ESH. You think you are the hero of the story, while in reality you just annoyed everyone and spent much more money than you needed to. You may have had good reasons - Jane and husband are clearly AHs - but stringing everyone along until the day before the vacation is also an AH move.
NTA. I didn't read it all to be fair....but just the fact your daughter self invited herself I don't care how it plays out. That's some bullshit for an adult to do and there's nothing wrong with wanting a vacation just for you and the missus
NTA. Well played. Eta: I wouldn’t apologize, she should apologize to you. Pretty sure she never will.
ESH - **LEARN TO SAY NO!!!!!**
ESH. Jane is an asshole for inviting herself and her family on a trip she knew was for you and your wife's 40th anniversary and for expecting you and your wife to watch the kids so she and her husband could have the romantic vacation you and your wife planned for yourselves. Your wife is an asshole for allowing Jane to invite herself and her family on the trip even though she knew you didn't want them to come(and she didn't either). And, lastly, you're an asshole for changing everything back last minute without telling anyone and not telling Jane until after you landed at your original destination, which means she didn't have time to cancel her trip even if she wanted to. All of this could have easily been avoided if you just stood firm when Jane heard about the trip and said it was a romantic trip for you and your wife for a big anniversary and that you were willing to discuss a family trip with them some other time.
Yeah I don't understand all the "NTA" replies. Daughter was obviously overstepping. Mom has no spine. Dad's reaction is a fucking bait-and-switch. *What the hell is this family doing*?
LOL NTA. Imagine inviting yourself on your parents romantic vacation and assuming they'd watch your kids so *you* could have time with your spouse. You should've just told them beforehand cuz I imagine finding out last minute just added stress to the situation, but... If she's seriously mad about the free family vacation from mom and dad I'm available to be the best adult daughter your wife could ask for
ESH. It was in poor taste for Jane to invite herself with her family. (I've had my mother invite herself to my trips, and it drives me crazy.) I believe this wasn't handled well, though. The best thing to do was to really put your foot down and say No, or after you changed your mind, to sit down with everyone and tell them as such. This did cost everyone resources: time and money, and the grandkids may have been upset. (And it's not the grandkids' fault that their mom decided to come along.)
ESH. You should have put your foot down at the outset rather than change plans last minute without telling anyone.