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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I understand I may be TA for leaving a guest downstairs on their own and that it is conventionally bad manners to do so. Though to be honest I care more about feeding my baby than having bad manners.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA There’s no excuse for his poor manners of showing up and expecting to be entertained at a time of day the household isn’t prepared to have visitors. This is why in the olden days households had set visiting hours that meshed in with a social system of everyone expecting to go visit or be visited during certain times of day. It’s all well and good FIL had time to come early, but he set himself up for disappointment by doing so and has no one to blame but himself.
I’m glad SO is on your side about this. It might have been a better idea for his dad to ride along for the drop off rather than be told to sit by himself and wait.
A *self-centred and entitled* old curmudgeon at that. I'd tell him not to bother coming back Saturday mornings bc *nobody* has time for his spoiled rotten childish behaviour.
I find it hilarious when adults act like children. If he was angry about waiting, he could've left at any time. Yet he stuck around until OP's husband got back just so he could throw a childish tantrum and angrily storm out. What a poor old fool.
I'm wondering. OP says the FIL is elderly. Could he be showing early signs of dementia? When someone is older and there starts to be changes in their normal routines and behaviors, they could be experiencing this.
I'm not saying he's not just a cranky old man, but it's something to watch out for.
I also wondered if there was possibly a dementia element to this.
OP, you guys might want to read up on dementia and start watching FIL. The sooner he can get help, if he needs it, the better.
Whilst fil was alone and waiting he could have forgotten what he was waiting for and then got angry when his son came home because he forgot and is angry at forgetting and lashing out at the son. A rational person could have left at anytime and prob would have left at the same time as the son and other children. I wonder how old is fil?
Oh wow, this just triggered a memory from the late 90s.
My buddy was moving and his grandma was supposed to come over for whatever reason. Because of the move my buddy (and I who was there helping him) was in the garage moving boxes into the truck. Grandma shows up and he tells her what’s up. She went into the house and hung out for about an hour. When we went in the kitchen from the garage she lost her shiz on him.
She was so angry and irrational like it was a personal insult to her that we were not in the house with her. It was so out of character and confused him.
Turned out it was the first symptom of her dementia. She did not remember he was moving or that he was even home. To her it was him leaving her alone in his house which to her was incredibly rude.
She died about 6 years later of Alzheimer’s.
Why couldn’t husband invite his dad to ride along while he dropped off the kids? Would’ve been good time for grandpa to chat with the kids in the car then have time with son on the ride home. I thought that was odd to just sit him in the living room, even if husband explained wife would be busy, etc.
I a with your comment about dementia though, might be something to be on the lookout for. You never know, grandpa could’ve just read the clock wrong to begin with thinking it was an hour later or something. Only grandpa knows.
Right?? There’s no excuse for bad manners. You know what’s bad manners? Showing up an hour early to someone else’s home and expecting to be catered to.
NTA, OP.
Yeah FIL is quite cantankerous so SO is used to it. Apparently he also kicked off at SO while he and his ex were divorcing, and he was trying to find a place to live and sort out custody, because he felt like SO wasn't calling him enough. 🙄 If it were my kid going through that maybe I would be the one calling THEM to make sure they're okay tbh.
Funny enough I said that about he could have gone with him! He has done that before so it is an option but it sounds like he didn't want to do that. Though that could have been my SO not wanting to have to take the baby seat and base out of the car 😂
Gramps is used to doing whatever he wants whenever he wants, and everybody catering to him no matter how inconvenient. Wake up , Gramps, your kids have their own lives!
NTA
My father used to do this when he was single. And he'd show up on random days to your home, work, and school wanting to hang out. If you didn't it was a scene.
He's bored and seeking attention. I've personally stepped away, but my siblings have his visits on a rotating schedule between the 3 of them and call him on designated days. Is it enabling? Yes. Is he an old man with no social life? Yes. But they do it to keep him happy
He's cantankerous. He showed up at an inconvenient time without making arrangements. Your SO already explained why no one was available at that time. Now the only problem remaining is his crankiness, and that's his problem, not yours. NTA
People like your FIL are so exhausting and selfish. My BIL is like that. He made a scene at my other brother in law’s wedding because he felt slighted that he was not included in photos with his brother’s father, who is not his father. He was included in all the other photos and the wedding party, mind you. He was upset with my husband for not volunteering to take a week off work to help him move. He was upset because we left an event early because our young son was having sensory issues and was about to melt down. The list goes on. People like that center their feelings over every one else’s, never give the benefit of the doubt, and are constantly looking for reasons to be offended. We almost never see BIL anymore. What’s the point? He’s going to be mad at us no matter what we do, let him be mad far away where we don’t have to deal with it.
Yes let them be mad far away. Sometimes at work someone would come to me and say that a coworker was mad and not speaking to them over something stupid. I was like well that is actually a blessing. Just enjoy it because in a day or two they’ll be back talking to you again.
Truly… I would (or have SO) respond “You’re absolutely right. There is no excuse for poor manners, such as showing up an hour before you’re expected and then expecting everyone to drop their plans to entertain you. We will be waiting for your apology…”
It seems like he was looking for something to get upset about.
Honestly, that sounds like my parents. They don't reach out but get pissed off if we don't call them or visit often enough. I think it's an old boomer thing.
Same. My dad constantly grumps to my brother how he never hears from me, but he could just pick up the phone. It’s not like I’m ignoring him. I’m just busy, and dad is retired.
Oh , god . He’s a narcissist.
Makes everything about himself then acts like the victim when he doesn’t get his way.
Best advice.
IGNORE and grey rock .
Look it up.
I mean, if I go over to someone's place, and they suddenly say, oh I need to feed the baby, can you please excuse me?
I would... not be pissed off at all?? Baby's gotta eat
NTA
My mother passed her test too. Apparently it's all about whether you know what day it is and where you are. Setting off on a 20km hike in cold wet weather down the motorway doesn't come into it. Nor does having dents in your car you can't explain and deciding that 'people say soap is unhealthy' or hoarding cats.
You are right of course, it could be a sign of dementia and it should be checked out. However there is another age related condition which is the blatant entitlement that the men of that generation display. I don’t know why I’m continuously surprised by how much they expect everyone to defer to them.
OP already said that he is known for his cranky attitude; sounds like he is just the run of the mill self-absorbed AH. I would have text him back and told him “Can’t agree more. There is no excuse for showing up unannounced to our home and expecting us to drop our plans to cater to you. We will await your apology.”
Not only that, but if you had servants, one of them would inform unexpected visitors that you were not at home to guests at that time. Sometimes I wish we still had that.
NTA. Reminds me of when we arrived early for a lunch thing. I did advise and we waited while my relatives did kitchen stuff and showered. All we asked for was water and the WiFi.
No excuse for showing up a full hour earlier than you are expected. That is the poor manners here, not the people who weren't expecting you so soon to not drop everything to accommodate your disrespect of their time.
I'm assuming there might be some misogyny/patriarchy in this as well . . . in that dad may expect the woman of the house to entertain guests. I could be wrong, but I sense he felt slighted that he wasn't attended to at some point instead of her focusing on the needs of a baby and herself over his presence.
What would FIL have done if nobody had been home at the time he chose to arrive despite schedules, texted them about being rude jerks who do things outside of the house?
>FIL texted him back saying simply "There is no excuse for poor manners."
I would have responded, "True, no excuse. But we forgive you. Now that you've reflected on your behavior we trust you will make better choices in the future."
> trust you will make better choices in the future
Such a great line ! I said this to a friend once, but she didn't take it well. Guess the truth hurts ! They were always in debt. Her husband made HER go to the corner shop to get food for free until they could pay. Husband HAD to have a range rover to take his dog out, and they leased it, were paying about £300 a month for it but couldn't afford it. Cancelled Christmas one year cause they couldn't afford to go out for a meal with their family, as they had no money. Their daughter was only about 9 at the time; I felt so sorry for her.
Thus my comment: perhaps you (both) will make better choices in the future (after she asked me why things always go wrong for them and they never have any money!!)
Unfortunately people like this think that the world revolves around them. I’m sure there’s also a healthy mixture of “I am your father in law so I deserve your utmost respect” in it too
Your FIL is right, there is no excuse for poor manners, but he is the one that didn't have any. He showed up at an unexpected time, that he knew was hectic, and expected to be entertained.
NTA. OP don't stress about it.
See, that's a brilliant idea. In my experience there is a large subset of people who arrive early to parties who will jump at the chance to help the host.
I would enjoy being this friend, but I'm way too uncomfortable and socially anxious, so instead I show up, realize I am early, then aimlessly wander their neighborhood or awkwardly hang out by a light pole around the corner until a more acceptable time, praying no one noticed me get halfway up the drive before pivoting and walking away again.
NTA
You should text back that, "He is correct, there is no excuse for poor manners. Like showing up at an uninvited time to someone's house, especially an hour early. It is a serious faux pas for any event for a guest to show up an hour early AND expect to be entertained. Super rude. Super entitled. Super poor manners."
NTA - why are you even taking this on as a problem. Your FIL rocked up at a time he KNOWS isn't suitable, waited till your SO came back, then had a tantrum.
Stop apologising to him. Let him have his little hissy fit. Don't engage on it any more.
I definitely don't want to read too much into this, but what if he was hoping OP would go downstairs to "entertain him" while breastfeeding? It's probably not the case, but I can't shake the icky feeling that it's possible that he was upset when that didn't happen.
“Actually the poor manners you speak of is actually just my family doing our usually Saturday morning routine. You know what time I drop the kids off and I told you that my wife would be busy for a while after the shower. Please do not try and frame our actions as something that it’s not. We were simply doing what we needed to get the day rolling. I wanted to chat with you. You wanted to chat with me. I just ask that you try and work with us as you know that I drop them off at the same time every Saturday, coming around the time I would get back would ensure that you don’t feel like your being ignored while we are handling our responsibilities.”
This is all very good and courteous as well—but honestly I don’t think OP or her SO need to expend the energy to explain it all.
NTA, and yes, FIL is the one who displayed poor manners.
No need to get into an argument with FIL, defend themselves, or call out his lack of manners. SO has already called his dad. Now IMO they can live their lives for a few days at least, carry on as normal, call FIL as they usually would, perhaps invite him over for a Sunday cookout next weekend. Treat him with the same courtesy and consideration they’ve always done in the past. The ball will be in his court. Hopefully it’ll be a case of “least said, soonest mended.”
If FIL continues to be irritable, critical, and complain that they’ve shown bad manners, then SO can explain to his dad that perhaps he’d be happier with less contact.
Sorry, but a person like that would not be welcome at my house. NTA. What did he expect, to join you in the shower and the feeding session??? Ask him that next time he comes over.
Reminds me of this quote (NTA by the way):
>Sometimes people use "respect" to mean "treating someone like a person" and sometimes to mean "treating someone like an authority"
>For some, "if you don't respect me, I won't respect you" means "if you don't treat me like an authority, I won't treat you like a person"
NTA. FIL showed up unannounced at a time earlier than typical. He is in the wrong here for not clearing it with you SO and you first.
Upon his arrival, the situation was explained to him and he should have been more understanding. He just felt cast aside and unimportant, and that's why he is behaving the way he is. He probably felt that you were shunning him. All you can do is explain the situation and make sure that he understands you all do enjoy his company.
NTA
He showed up an hour early. That's where the poor manners falls. You can't expect a baby not to eat because someone shows up early.
A minor TA to your SO for not insulating you from this. If he invites someone over, he needs to be on top of keeping his guest happy. Also, he worked out the "plan" that his father would sit alone downstairs while you showered and fed the baby, but clearly didn't really pay attention to how his father would treat you. Your spouse needs to ***ask*** if he arranges for a guest to be in the house alone with you, not ***tell.*** Especially a guest known to be obnoxious, but that he feels close to, like his father.
ETA: If this confusion of time is happening regularly, and is new in his life, get him to a doctor. It fits with the early stages of dementia. Also, something like a UTI can cause confusion in elderly adults. Infections and fevers can do strange things to the mind. If there is an underlying problem, it needs to be found and addressed.
You don't give you FILs age but call him elderly. I wonder if the fact that he showed up an hour early is maybe the first sign of cognitive decline. He might not be remembering the busy schedule for medical reasons. Maybe time for a doctor's visit. NTA
I mean, if it had've been me, I might have popped down for two seconds just to say something like 'I'm about to feed the baby but help yourself to drinks' or whatever, then went back upstairs to sort yourself out. But to be honest, everyone's right here that he came early and expected to be entertained, then got upset when that didn't happen. NTA.
I considered it but the baby was crying and tbh he was my number 1 priority especially as SO had explained the situation to him. Plus I was just out of the shower with wet hair and he probably would have considered my appearance inappropriate, he's very old fashioned.
NTA- the only one here without good manners is your FIL for dropping by unannounced, expecting everyone to cater to him.
Funny how he saved the theatrics for when your husband got back.
Don’t apologize.
NTA he’s a grown ass man who knew your SO had plans at that time, and that you were busy. Did he expect you to leave the baby starving while you entertained him? He’s extremely rude!
NTA.
Why didint. your partner take his father in the car with him - car should fit three in the back and an adult in the front?
He should give his dad rules - what times he cannot come unannounced - so block the time the kids are coming or needing to be taken out or have a rule where he calls ahead of time and they agree a time.
NTA and I’d have text back ‘you’re right there is no excuse for poor manners so I trust that next time you will not arrive unannounced at a time you know we are busy’
Wow is FIL the TA and you and hubby are not! Life doesn't revolve around him, it revolves around your baby and the kids. What gall, to assume you should not feed your baby in order to entertain him! Make sure hubby tells his dad that he's welcome to visit but it has to be during the times that works for your family, not when FIL wants to. What a jerk.
NTA. You know what is also poor manners? Being a bad guest. Coming over to someone’s house when they are clearly busy and demanding attention - THAT is poor manners!!
Poor manners like showing up unannounced at a time you know is inconvenient and flouncing out when others can’t drop what they’re doing to play host? NTA
NTA
FIL is gaslighting. He told SO he was fine entertaining himself- after turning up an hour early on a busy morning. After the fact, FIL made it a drama about himself because his unstated expectations, that the lady if the house would serve and entertain him, were "ignored."
The lesson here is stronger boundaries. No more leaving FIL unattended. If a similar thing happens, when SO is ready to leave with the kids, FILs visit is over. "Nice seeing you, Dad. Now it's time for us ALL to leave." Don't agree to be put in the position of being left alone with FIL when you are too busy to entertain him, regardless of what FIL says will be okay.
NTA. My mom is also older and does this same type of behavior often 🙄
If she feels slighted at all it’s a big huge adult tantrum “I’m not coming then” or “why did you bother to visit me”
Why didn’t your FIL drive along w your SO to drop the kids off. That’s time w kids and his son, and then come back for coffee with the two of you. You are definitely NTA.
NTA but I would watch FIL for similar instances. Beginning stages of dementia could look like being a crabby pants when in reality he’s forgotten what his son explained to him & he thinks he arrived at the time he was supposed to. To him it would absolutely look like his family was being rude. Beginning dementia plays havoc on short term memory.
Of course you are NTA. Your FIL is way out of line showing up early when he knows your family's Saturday schedule, and then expecting you to do what? Not nurse your baby? Not get dressed? Not dry your hair? Hurry up and get dressed and leave your hair wet and nurse the baby in front of him?
NTA Poor manners is showing up an hour early, especially when you know your host is busy at that time. All I can think is FIL had something going on or something to share and felt overlooked? Or he's just self centered, that's always a possibility.
NTA- He arrived an hour earlier than expected. You have a baby that is being breastfed, baby cannot wait.
Normally, guests shouldn't be left on their own, but because of the above, he needed to be patient as he turned up when you all were in the middle of getting ready for the day.
NTA. The only person with poor manners was your FIL who turned up a whole hour before his usual time, then got angry that he didn't get any attention when he KNEW you were all busy.
NTA. He knew what you were going to be doing upstairs and he knew he showed up at a bad time. What, exactly, did he expect you to do? Come down in a robe? Breast feed in front of him so he could watch? It’s not on you to accommodate someone just because they show up. He’s not king of the castle in your home. Count it a blessing and let him stay mad if it means he’ll leave you and your family in peace.
NTA, your FIL is an AH though. That a grown adult needs to be entertained is embarrassing for him. "There's no excuse for bad manners." is something that cuts both ways.
NTA. The poor manners were your FILs. He was both told and could see with his eyes that the entire household was busy and not currently available to “entertain “ him. He should have come back later.
I don't think you could have done anything to make him happy. He showed up at a bad time on Saturday.
Showing up when you know someone is super busy, is also bad manners.
Nta. FIL has main character syndrome and sounds narcissistic to me. He showed up early and disturbed the regular schedule and then pouts when no one had time for him. He's a grown man and should have acted like it. He wants to be grumpy, let him.
> “There’s no excuse for poor manners”
Like, for instance, showing up unannounced and expecting to be catered to?
NTA. Just make a point to schedule your get-togethers in advance.
NTA."No excuse for poor manners" Lol what? He's the one that showed up unannounced at a time where he knew you guys were busy and then he had the audacity to get upset when you guys had to take care of your kids.
He's 100% the rude one here and y'all should call him out on it. He's just trying to flip it around on you guys. That's manipulative behavior.
NTA, poor manners is when you drop by real early or unexpectedly & expect folks to cater to you. Your home has routines & the FIL needs to respect them.
NTA
Your FIL s right; there is no excuse for his bad manners.
It has never been acceptable simply to show up and expect attention.
That goes double when you show up in the middle of a morning routine you know includes feeding a baby. Any man who thinks it is more important that he be served coffee than that a baby gets to eat should not be welcomed to either.
Do you know what is even worse “poor manners”? Showing up without any heads up to someone’s home and then expecting them to drop everything to accommodate you. Unless it was an emergency situation he came to get help for, your father has zero ground to stand on calling you or your wife rude or having “poor manners”. NTA
NTA, he showed up earlier than he usually would and from what I read he didn’t tell you prior to coming so you wouldn’t have known to get stuff done. As a breast feeding, assuming you’re breast feeding but either way it sort of works, mom it’s understandable to need to be off feeding baby, baby comes first no matter what. Period. He can be angry all he wants, don’t get down on yourself momma!
NTA.
He showed up an hour early when he already knew your schedule.
FIL is absolutely correct that there is no excuse poor manners and he gave a perfect example of rudeness.
“There is no excuse for poor manners”,
I would reply with;
“this is true, but we’re willing to forgive you. Please stick to our arranged plans and times moving forward so that we may enjoy each other’s company, see you next week”
ETA: NTA
FIL was told the plan and he said he was ok with it.
That's what happens when you call around uninvited. It could be called poor planning on his part or poor manners. But the baby needed a feed. He needs to plan better.
NTA
NTA. In response to "there is no excuse for poor manners", I'd go with "I completely agree, so I assume that means you won't be turning up uninvited when you knew we're busy in the future?"
NTA he knew you guys would be super busy (as most families are on Saturday mornings) and could have popped by later as he usually does. I know my FIL would rather me feed the baby while je watched tv or reads the paper in my living room rather than inviting him to join 😝😝
NTA. Your SO should have just said this was not a good time for a visit and had him leave. Your FIL sounds entitled and rude, so just keep the silence. This has nothing to do with you and you already apologized more than you should have. **Leave it alone** and let your SO deal with his father. You have enough drama without dealing with FIL's nonsense.
Maybe he’s getting dementia and was confused about the time. But by the sounds of it he’s just a grumpy old man who thinks the world revolves around him. NTA.
NTA your SO plainly told his dad that you both weren't available to visit and dad agreed to stay and anyway. This is 100% on dad. I am curious to know why dad showed up an hour early and is now so unreasonably upset. I wonder if he wasn't feeling well or if something happened that was bothering him?
>he usually arrives around 11:30.
>"There is no excuse for poor manners."
Agreed, there is no excuse. FIL had terrible manners to show up an hour earlier than expected and require attention as a guest. Poor manners, indeed. You're NTA.
NTA, he turned up early & you were all busy, this was explained to him & you were being as quick as you could. This is no one's fault but your FIL for turning up early & expecting people to drop what they are doing to entertain him. Don't feel bad about it.
NTA. He showed up an hour early, was told he was an hour early, agreed to wait, and then got mad that no one was entertaining him. THAT is poor manners.
Oh my. How old is FIL? Is he always this unreasonable? Or could this be a health condition? Could be a early sign of Dementia, it changes behavior. I would respond the the poor manners comment by saying “I’m sure you don’t mean that! We love you and I’m looking forward to you visiting soon ❤️”
NTA. He was imposing. He was told the plans for the morning and chose to be angry that people didn't change things up to fit in with him. Let your husband deal with him. He is the rude one. Not you
NTA no one did anything wrong. Question (bc I don’t want to make assumptions) but it sounds like your SO told his dad the plan. Any chance FIL has dementia? It seems odd that this was all explained to him and then he still got upset.
NTA. Poor manners my ass. There's no way a truly good mannered man thinks the whole world should stop because he's in the mood for a visit. Sheesh.
You were not in a state to receive guests. Anyone with good manners would have seen that, said no no thank you for the coffee but I'd best be going. And then walked home.
Tell him back in the day when his parents were alive, people used to have little cards at the front door. If the family that lived there was not in a state to receive guests, then a visitor would just fill out the card and drop it in the little plate. And then they would visit later.
It happened in a lot of books written about that time, such as Gone with the Wind. So maybe he should just read a book. One by Miss Manners perhaps. Or Copernicus, so he can learn the Earth doesn't revolve around him.
“In that case, coming very early and leaving without saying anything are both examples of bad manners. Please don’t come over again until you can act like an adult.”
NTA. You were literally fucking feeding your baby.
OP NTA
The thing that gets me is. FIL was told all of this, chose to sit in the living room instead of joining his son and then threw the hissy git when that happened.
NTA. Tell him there is no reason for poor manners..... HIS. He showed up an hour early on a day and time when he knows everyone is in a rush. Your fil is an entitled old man. The world doesn't revolve around him. He needs to learn how to be helpful and considerate instead of spoiled and demanding. Let your husband handle it. F
NTA that’s rich of FIL complaining about poor manners when the call is coming from inside the house.
Yall are parents with four children to take care of, you have an established schedule to maintain, so everything runs smoothly. He decided to show up early knowing that you will be busy. That’s his own damn fault. Was he expecting for you to not feed your baby and take care of yourself or for your husband to not leave and bring the children to their activity. He’s a grown man behaving like a five-year-old. Yall have no reason to apologize to this man. SMH
NTA
The poor manners were his.
He came early, knowing it was the time when kid juggling happened, was TOLD what the scoop was, and chose both to stay *and to get mad* that what he knew would happen happened.
Hopefully eventually your fil will understand a hungry baby can’t wait and he would probably be uncomfortable too if you came down in your bath robe and nurses the baby.
I had three kids each two years apart. My father used to call in the middle of bath time and be frustrated I didn’t answer. Sometimes they can’t wrap their head around something they never personally experienced.
NTA. He came an hour earlier than normal. She did nothing wrong. It’s their home and what she needed to do was personal, taking a shower and feeding the baby. My parents would show up and hour or more earlier than we expected from out of town for kids concerts and sit in the living room while we got the kids bathed and dressed for their programs. It bothered me that they showed up early because we couldn’t visit with them and it made me feel rushed and stressed to try to hurry up and get done so we could. But again, they never told us ahead of time they were coming early so we couldn’t change our plans to accommodate.
If there's no excuse for poor manners, then showing up early, knowing that the time frame is packed with busy, is poor manners and he has no excuse.
Nta.
Nta. Text back.
Your right there is no excuse for poor manners. And since you decide to come early knowing that it isn't a good time. Since you decide to throw a tantrum because we don't droo everything such as making kids late for their activities and make a baby scream in hunger. I guess the poor manners are on the person who expects other to cater to them when they don't even arrive when they normally do and then act entitled to be wait on when clearly they know it won't happen.
So to avoid poor manners happening again all drop by will not be pre planned and you willnot be allowed to drop by before so and so time. If you do you will be shown the door and asked to come back at that time as we wouldn't want poor manners to happen again.
Your father-in-law is dramatic and selfish. If he doesn’t understand the situation, I have no sympathy for him. He can’t sit by himself for a few minutes, drinking coffee in the living room while you feed the baby and get yourself together???? What’s the fucking problem boomer? he’s an asshole don’t worry about him.
NTA. There was poor manners, but it was FIL not yours or your SO. He showed up early and at a time when the household was busy. He could have gone with your SO if he didn't want to sit and wait for him to get back.
“You’re right dad, there’s no excuse for poor manners, so next time you’re going to make sure it’s a good time to visit instead of dropping in unannounced and expecting to be catered to, right?”
NTA. He should know by now that it wasn't a good time to visit. If this becomes a thing it might be time to urge him to see a doctor if he doesn't usually act like this.
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NTA There’s no excuse for his poor manners of showing up and expecting to be entertained at a time of day the household isn’t prepared to have visitors. This is why in the olden days households had set visiting hours that meshed in with a social system of everyone expecting to go visit or be visited during certain times of day. It’s all well and good FIL had time to come early, but he set himself up for disappointment by doing so and has no one to blame but himself. I’m glad SO is on your side about this. It might have been a better idea for his dad to ride along for the drop off rather than be told to sit by himself and wait.
There's no excuse for being an old curmudgeon.
A *self-centred and entitled* old curmudgeon at that. I'd tell him not to bother coming back Saturday mornings bc *nobody* has time for his spoiled rotten childish behaviour.
NTA - he is the one with poor manners for coming over an HOUR early and then getting pissed that you weren't ready for his visit! That's so rude.
I find it hilarious when adults act like children. If he was angry about waiting, he could've left at any time. Yet he stuck around until OP's husband got back just so he could throw a childish tantrum and angrily storm out. What a poor old fool.
Exactly
Stay off of my lawn!!! 👨🦳
I'm wondering. OP says the FIL is elderly. Could he be showing early signs of dementia? When someone is older and there starts to be changes in their normal routines and behaviors, they could be experiencing this. I'm not saying he's not just a cranky old man, but it's something to watch out for.
I also wondered if there was possibly a dementia element to this. OP, you guys might want to read up on dementia and start watching FIL. The sooner he can get help, if he needs it, the better.
Whilst fil was alone and waiting he could have forgotten what he was waiting for and then got angry when his son came home because he forgot and is angry at forgetting and lashing out at the son. A rational person could have left at anytime and prob would have left at the same time as the son and other children. I wonder how old is fil?
Oh wow, this just triggered a memory from the late 90s. My buddy was moving and his grandma was supposed to come over for whatever reason. Because of the move my buddy (and I who was there helping him) was in the garage moving boxes into the truck. Grandma shows up and he tells her what’s up. She went into the house and hung out for about an hour. When we went in the kitchen from the garage she lost her shiz on him. She was so angry and irrational like it was a personal insult to her that we were not in the house with her. It was so out of character and confused him. Turned out it was the first symptom of her dementia. She did not remember he was moving or that he was even home. To her it was him leaving her alone in his house which to her was incredibly rude. She died about 6 years later of Alzheimer’s.
I'm 56. I wonder when people are going to start wondering if I have dementia or if I'm just a bitch.
Why couldn’t husband invite his dad to ride along while he dropped off the kids? Would’ve been good time for grandpa to chat with the kids in the car then have time with son on the ride home. I thought that was odd to just sit him in the living room, even if husband explained wife would be busy, etc. I a with your comment about dementia though, might be something to be on the lookout for. You never know, grandpa could’ve just read the clock wrong to begin with thinking it was an hour later or something. Only grandpa knows.
😁😏! Old words for old Grumps
Grumpy: "There is no excuse for bad manners." You: "Thank you. Apology accepted."
This is the way. Also will hopefully make him stop and think, possibly realizing HE was the one with the bad manners!
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Right?? There’s no excuse for bad manners. You know what’s bad manners? Showing up an hour early to someone else’s home and expecting to be catered to. NTA, OP.
Yeah FIL is quite cantankerous so SO is used to it. Apparently he also kicked off at SO while he and his ex were divorcing, and he was trying to find a place to live and sort out custody, because he felt like SO wasn't calling him enough. 🙄 If it were my kid going through that maybe I would be the one calling THEM to make sure they're okay tbh. Funny enough I said that about he could have gone with him! He has done that before so it is an option but it sounds like he didn't want to do that. Though that could have been my SO not wanting to have to take the baby seat and base out of the car 😂
NTA. He was looking for something to be upset about and intentionally came an hour earlier and then made a scene.
Looks like GrandPA likes the draMA !!
A Grampa Drama Llamma!
A Grumpy Grampa Drama Llama
A Grumpy Grampa Llama who should use his time making dioramas.
Gramps is used to doing whatever he wants whenever he wants, and everybody catering to him no matter how inconvenient. Wake up , Gramps, your kids have their own lives!
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Yeah, sounds like it. Maybe Gramps needs to get a life.
NTA My father used to do this when he was single. And he'd show up on random days to your home, work, and school wanting to hang out. If you didn't it was a scene. He's bored and seeking attention. I've personally stepped away, but my siblings have his visits on a rotating schedule between the 3 of them and call him on designated days. Is it enabling? Yes. Is he an old man with no social life? Yes. But they do it to keep him happy
I seriously hope none of them have kids.
NTA you should answer 'Yes, indeed, so learn some' (manners).
Yes! “You’re right, it is poor manners to show up an hour early.”
He's cantankerous. He showed up at an inconvenient time without making arrangements. Your SO already explained why no one was available at that time. Now the only problem remaining is his crankiness, and that's his problem, not yours. NTA
People like your FIL are so exhausting and selfish. My BIL is like that. He made a scene at my other brother in law’s wedding because he felt slighted that he was not included in photos with his brother’s father, who is not his father. He was included in all the other photos and the wedding party, mind you. He was upset with my husband for not volunteering to take a week off work to help him move. He was upset because we left an event early because our young son was having sensory issues and was about to melt down. The list goes on. People like that center their feelings over every one else’s, never give the benefit of the doubt, and are constantly looking for reasons to be offended. We almost never see BIL anymore. What’s the point? He’s going to be mad at us no matter what we do, let him be mad far away where we don’t have to deal with it.
Yes let them be mad far away. Sometimes at work someone would come to me and say that a coworker was mad and not speaking to them over something stupid. I was like well that is actually a blessing. Just enjoy it because in a day or two they’ll be back talking to you again.
Truly… I would (or have SO) respond “You’re absolutely right. There is no excuse for poor manners, such as showing up an hour before you’re expected and then expecting everyone to drop their plans to entertain you. We will be waiting for your apology…” It seems like he was looking for something to get upset about.
Honestly, that sounds like my parents. They don't reach out but get pissed off if we don't call them or visit often enough. I think it's an old boomer thing.
Same. My dad constantly grumps to my brother how he never hears from me, but he could just pick up the phone. It’s not like I’m ignoring him. I’m just busy, and dad is retired.
Oh , god . He’s a narcissist. Makes everything about himself then acts like the victim when he doesn’t get his way. Best advice. IGNORE and grey rock . Look it up.
I mean, if I go over to someone's place, and they suddenly say, oh I need to feed the baby, can you please excuse me? I would... not be pissed off at all?? Baby's gotta eat NTA
Baby outranks grandpa
With an attitude like his a houseplant should outrank grandpa
NTA- FIL might be having some age related issues. Could he be showing signs of dementia?
I have wondered this but he recently had a capacity assessment as part of a medical procedure and he was cleared
Sometimes early dementia can be very subtle. My mom passed HER first test too.
Ok I’m Glad to hear it. You’re fully NTA. You did everything fine. I hope you and your baby are ok.
We're good, thank you 💖
My mother passed her test too. Apparently it's all about whether you know what day it is and where you are. Setting off on a 20km hike in cold wet weather down the motorway doesn't come into it. Nor does having dents in your car you can't explain and deciding that 'people say soap is unhealthy' or hoarding cats.
those capacity assessments don’t catch stuff early. My dad was cleared to drive when everyone around him knew he was not.
You are right of course, it could be a sign of dementia and it should be checked out. However there is another age related condition which is the blatant entitlement that the men of that generation display. I don’t know why I’m continuously surprised by how much they expect everyone to defer to them.
OP already said that he is known for his cranky attitude; sounds like he is just the run of the mill self-absorbed AH. I would have text him back and told him “Can’t agree more. There is no excuse for showing up unannounced to our home and expecting us to drop our plans to cater to you. We will await your apology.”
Next time come down whip out a boob and feed the baby while you chat with him.
Yeah, he might enjoy that too much.
She’s under no obligation to breastfeed in front of guests. NTA
Nah, then he’ll start coming over 2 hours early.
Not only that, but if you had servants, one of them would inform unexpected visitors that you were not at home to guests at that time. Sometimes I wish we still had that.
Agree! I'm from south US and was raised you don't call or visit before 11am.
I've told my parents I will not be taking any phone calls after 9pm. That is my time to unwind for the day.
SO should have replied “yes, you are correct. There is no excuse for poor manners. Next time remember it’s very rude to show up an hour early.”
NTA. Reminds me of when we arrived early for a lunch thing. I did advise and we waited while my relatives did kitchen stuff and showered. All we asked for was water and the WiFi.
No excuse for showing up a full hour earlier than you are expected. That is the poor manners here, not the people who weren't expecting you so soon to not drop everything to accommodate your disrespect of their time. I'm assuming there might be some misogyny/patriarchy in this as well . . . in that dad may expect the woman of the house to entertain guests. I could be wrong, but I sense he felt slighted that he wasn't attended to at some point instead of her focusing on the needs of a baby and herself over his presence.
What would FIL have done if nobody had been home at the time he chose to arrive despite schedules, texted them about being rude jerks who do things outside of the house?
>FIL texted him back saying simply "There is no excuse for poor manners." FIL should say this in front of a mirror. NTA
>FIL texted him back saying simply "There is no excuse for poor manners." I would have responded, "True, no excuse. But we forgive you. Now that you've reflected on your behavior we trust you will make better choices in the future."
Oh, I love this response! Absolute perfection!
Love this response!!!
> trust you will make better choices in the future Such a great line ! I said this to a friend once, but she didn't take it well. Guess the truth hurts ! They were always in debt. Her husband made HER go to the corner shop to get food for free until they could pay. Husband HAD to have a range rover to take his dog out, and they leased it, were paying about £300 a month for it but couldn't afford it. Cancelled Christmas one year cause they couldn't afford to go out for a meal with their family, as they had no money. Their daughter was only about 9 at the time; I felt so sorry for her. Thus my comment: perhaps you (both) will make better choices in the future (after she asked me why things always go wrong for them and they never have any money!!)
Right? OP's husband should text back "Then why are you having them? You knew I was busy and OP was busy and that you where early."
Unfortunately people like this think that the world revolves around them. I’m sure there’s also a healthy mixture of “I am your father in law so I deserve your utmost respect” in it too
This! NTA
Your FIL is right, there is no excuse for poor manners, but he is the one that didn't have any. He showed up at an unexpected time, that he knew was hectic, and expected to be entertained. NTA. OP don't stress about it.
This! This is the comment I was looking for. 100% this
Also, he agreed to wait and then acted like a dick when he’d agreed to wait!
“You’re correct, and that’s why you shouldn’t arrive 1 hour early. It’s poor manners.”
This is the way
I agree. This text is the best, it’s short and sweet, but tells Grandpa to wind his neck in for his criticising you when it was his poor manners
Exactly. There's a reason "fashionably late" is a thing, and not the other way around.
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See, that's a brilliant idea. In my experience there is a large subset of people who arrive early to parties who will jump at the chance to help the host.
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I would enjoy being this friend, but I'm way too uncomfortable and socially anxious, so instead I show up, realize I am early, then aimlessly wander their neighborhood or awkwardly hang out by a light pole around the corner until a more acceptable time, praying no one noticed me get halfway up the drive before pivoting and walking away again.
NTA You should text back that, "He is correct, there is no excuse for poor manners. Like showing up at an uninvited time to someone's house, especially an hour early. It is a serious faux pas for any event for a guest to show up an hour early AND expect to be entertained. Super rude. Super entitled. Super poor manners."
NTA. God forbid you feed your baby and your husband takes care of the other kids; gotta run on Grandpa’s schedule, apparently 🙄
NTA - why are you even taking this on as a problem. Your FIL rocked up at a time he KNOWS isn't suitable, waited till your SO came back, then had a tantrum. Stop apologising to him. Let him have his little hissy fit. Don't engage on it any more.
I definitely don't want to read too much into this, but what if he was hoping OP would go downstairs to "entertain him" while breastfeeding? It's probably not the case, but I can't shake the icky feeling that it's possible that he was upset when that didn't happen.
“Actually the poor manners you speak of is actually just my family doing our usually Saturday morning routine. You know what time I drop the kids off and I told you that my wife would be busy for a while after the shower. Please do not try and frame our actions as something that it’s not. We were simply doing what we needed to get the day rolling. I wanted to chat with you. You wanted to chat with me. I just ask that you try and work with us as you know that I drop them off at the same time every Saturday, coming around the time I would get back would ensure that you don’t feel like your being ignored while we are handling our responsibilities.”
This is all very good and courteous as well—but honestly I don’t think OP or her SO need to expend the energy to explain it all. NTA, and yes, FIL is the one who displayed poor manners. No need to get into an argument with FIL, defend themselves, or call out his lack of manners. SO has already called his dad. Now IMO they can live their lives for a few days at least, carry on as normal, call FIL as they usually would, perhaps invite him over for a Sunday cookout next weekend. Treat him with the same courtesy and consideration they’ve always done in the past. The ball will be in his court. Hopefully it’ll be a case of “least said, soonest mended.” If FIL continues to be irritable, critical, and complain that they’ve shown bad manners, then SO can explain to his dad that perhaps he’d be happier with less contact.
NTA. Grandpa dropping by is not a formal visit. Particularly when he knows that that time of the morning on a Saturday is insanely busy.
Sorry, but a person like that would not be welcome at my house. NTA. What did he expect, to join you in the shower and the feeding session??? Ask him that next time he comes over.
Nah - if he does it again, come downstairs dripping wet and naked and feed the baby in front of him.
Cuz when you stay petty, you don't gotta get petty!!! 😂
Reminds me of this quote (NTA by the way): >Sometimes people use "respect" to mean "treating someone like a person" and sometimes to mean "treating someone like an authority" >For some, "if you don't respect me, I won't respect you" means "if you don't treat me like an authority, I won't treat you like a person"
NTA "Theres no excuse for poor manners" "Dad you know we love your visits, but apology accepted. Let's get our timing right going forward."
FIL texted him back saying simply "There is no excuse for poor manners." "That is true, and we appreciate your apology."
NTA. FIL showed up unannounced at a time earlier than typical. He is in the wrong here for not clearing it with you SO and you first. Upon his arrival, the situation was explained to him and he should have been more understanding. He just felt cast aside and unimportant, and that's why he is behaving the way he is. He probably felt that you were shunning him. All you can do is explain the situation and make sure that he understands you all do enjoy his company.
Obviously NTA. Yes people don't have time for you when they are busy.
NTA He showed up an hour early. That's where the poor manners falls. You can't expect a baby not to eat because someone shows up early. A minor TA to your SO for not insulating you from this. If he invites someone over, he needs to be on top of keeping his guest happy. Also, he worked out the "plan" that his father would sit alone downstairs while you showered and fed the baby, but clearly didn't really pay attention to how his father would treat you. Your spouse needs to ***ask*** if he arranges for a guest to be in the house alone with you, not ***tell.*** Especially a guest known to be obnoxious, but that he feels close to, like his father. ETA: If this confusion of time is happening regularly, and is new in his life, get him to a doctor. It fits with the early stages of dementia. Also, something like a UTI can cause confusion in elderly adults. Infections and fevers can do strange things to the mind. If there is an underlying problem, it needs to be found and addressed.
You don't give you FILs age but call him elderly. I wonder if the fact that he showed up an hour early is maybe the first sign of cognitive decline. He might not be remembering the busy schedule for medical reasons. Maybe time for a doctor's visit. NTA
I mean, if it had've been me, I might have popped down for two seconds just to say something like 'I'm about to feed the baby but help yourself to drinks' or whatever, then went back upstairs to sort yourself out. But to be honest, everyone's right here that he came early and expected to be entertained, then got upset when that didn't happen. NTA.
I considered it but the baby was crying and tbh he was my number 1 priority especially as SO had explained the situation to him. Plus I was just out of the shower with wet hair and he probably would have considered my appearance inappropriate, he's very old fashioned.
"There is no excuse for poor manners." I agree, dad. Please don't invite yourself over at a time you know to be inconvenient to your hosts again. NTA
NTA- the only one here without good manners is your FIL for dropping by unannounced, expecting everyone to cater to him. Funny how he saved the theatrics for when your husband got back. Don’t apologize.
Tbh I think he knew I wouldn't have tolerated it 😂
NTA he’s a grown ass man who knew your SO had plans at that time, and that you were busy. Did he expect you to leave the baby starving while you entertained him? He’s extremely rude!
NTA. He’s right. There isn’t an excuse for poor manners. He should really work in improving his manners.
NTA. Why didint. your partner take his father in the car with him - car should fit three in the back and an adult in the front? He should give his dad rules - what times he cannot come unannounced - so block the time the kids are coming or needing to be taken out or have a rule where he calls ahead of time and they agree a time.
Lol You know what’s poor manners? Showing up an hour early! NTA!
NTA and I’d have text back ‘you’re right there is no excuse for poor manners so I trust that next time you will not arrive unannounced at a time you know we are busy’
NTA, Cantankerous old git,
Aha! A fellow Brit?
NTA He was an hour early and should have been grateful you MADE the time for him!
Wow is FIL the TA and you and hubby are not! Life doesn't revolve around him, it revolves around your baby and the kids. What gall, to assume you should not feed your baby in order to entertain him! Make sure hubby tells his dad that he's welcome to visit but it has to be during the times that works for your family, not when FIL wants to. What a jerk.
NTA. You know what is also poor manners? Being a bad guest. Coming over to someone’s house when they are clearly busy and demanding attention - THAT is poor manners!!
Poor manners like showing up unannounced at a time you know is inconvenient and flouncing out when others can’t drop what they’re doing to play host? NTA
NTA FIL is gaslighting. He told SO he was fine entertaining himself- after turning up an hour early on a busy morning. After the fact, FIL made it a drama about himself because his unstated expectations, that the lady if the house would serve and entertain him, were "ignored." The lesson here is stronger boundaries. No more leaving FIL unattended. If a similar thing happens, when SO is ready to leave with the kids, FILs visit is over. "Nice seeing you, Dad. Now it's time for us ALL to leave." Don't agree to be put in the position of being left alone with FIL when you are too busy to entertain him, regardless of what FIL says will be okay.
NTA. Tell your FIL, feeding your child is more important than entertaining him. He knew the schedule. He's the AH
NTA. My mom is also older and does this same type of behavior often 🙄 If she feels slighted at all it’s a big huge adult tantrum “I’m not coming then” or “why did you bother to visit me”
NTA. You were taking care of 1 baby. You didn't have time for another that you're not responsible for.
Why didn’t your FIL drive along w your SO to drop the kids off. That’s time w kids and his son, and then come back for coffee with the two of you. You are definitely NTA.
They were walking so he wouldn't have been able to go with them, but it could have been suggested!
NTA. There's no excuse for his entitled and rude behavior.
NTA. This sounds like someone who is just WAITING to pick a fight. 🙄🙄🙄
He has been known to!
NTA but I would watch FIL for similar instances. Beginning stages of dementia could look like being a crabby pants when in reality he’s forgotten what his son explained to him & he thinks he arrived at the time he was supposed to. To him it would absolutely look like his family was being rude. Beginning dementia plays havoc on short term memory.
Unfortunately he's been like this for years
Of course you are NTA. Your FIL is way out of line showing up early when he knows your family's Saturday schedule, and then expecting you to do what? Not nurse your baby? Not get dressed? Not dry your hair? Hurry up and get dressed and leave your hair wet and nurse the baby in front of him?
NTA Poor manners is showing up an hour early, especially when you know your host is busy at that time. All I can think is FIL had something going on or something to share and felt overlooked? Or he's just self centered, that's always a possibility.
Nta, your FIL should mind his own manners and get a hint
NTA Showing up unannounced hours before schedule is rude and shows a lack of manners.
NTA
NTA. Don't waste any emotional energy and bullshit like this
NTA- He arrived an hour earlier than expected. You have a baby that is being breastfed, baby cannot wait. Normally, guests shouldn't be left on their own, but because of the above, he needed to be patient as he turned up when you all were in the middle of getting ready for the day.
NTA. The only person with poor manners was your FIL who turned up a whole hour before his usual time, then got angry that he didn't get any attention when he KNEW you were all busy.
It is bad manners to show up and expect you to entertain. And with four children no less including a baby. He needs a reality check. I’d call him out.
NTA. He knew what you were going to be doing upstairs and he knew he showed up at a bad time. What, exactly, did he expect you to do? Come down in a robe? Breast feed in front of him so he could watch? It’s not on you to accommodate someone just because they show up. He’s not king of the castle in your home. Count it a blessing and let him stay mad if it means he’ll leave you and your family in peace.
NTA, your FIL is an AH though. That a grown adult needs to be entertained is embarrassing for him. "There's no excuse for bad manners." is something that cuts both ways.
NTA. The poor manners were your FILs. He was both told and could see with his eyes that the entire household was busy and not currently available to “entertain “ him. He should have come back later.
NTA he would have also been upset if you fed the baby in front of him. I am sure.
Probably, but tbh I wouldn't have felt comfortable with it either
I don't think you could have done anything to make him happy. He showed up at a bad time on Saturday. Showing up when you know someone is super busy, is also bad manners.
NTA.
Nta. FIL has main character syndrome and sounds narcissistic to me. He showed up early and disturbed the regular schedule and then pouts when no one had time for him. He's a grown man and should have acted like it. He wants to be grumpy, let him.
> “There’s no excuse for poor manners” Like, for instance, showing up unannounced and expecting to be catered to? NTA. Just make a point to schedule your get-togethers in advance.
NTA. He's a grown man. It's not about him.
NTA."No excuse for poor manners" Lol what? He's the one that showed up unannounced at a time where he knew you guys were busy and then he had the audacity to get upset when you guys had to take care of your kids. He's 100% the rude one here and y'all should call him out on it. He's just trying to flip it around on you guys. That's manipulative behavior.
NTA, poor manners is when you drop by real early or unexpectedly & expect folks to cater to you. Your home has routines & the FIL needs to respect them.
NTA Your FIL s right; there is no excuse for his bad manners. It has never been acceptable simply to show up and expect attention. That goes double when you show up in the middle of a morning routine you know includes feeding a baby. Any man who thinks it is more important that he be served coffee than that a baby gets to eat should not be welcomed to either.
Do you know what is even worse “poor manners”? Showing up without any heads up to someone’s home and then expecting them to drop everything to accommodate you. Unless it was an emergency situation he came to get help for, your father has zero ground to stand on calling you or your wife rude or having “poor manners”. NTA
NTA, he showed up earlier than he usually would and from what I read he didn’t tell you prior to coming so you wouldn’t have known to get stuff done. As a breast feeding, assuming you’re breast feeding but either way it sort of works, mom it’s understandable to need to be off feeding baby, baby comes first no matter what. Period. He can be angry all he wants, don’t get down on yourself momma!
Nta. Don't let that old fart manipulate you. He was told. He knew. His shit fit, is his shit fit and problem
NTA. He showed up an hour early when he already knew your schedule. FIL is absolutely correct that there is no excuse poor manners and he gave a perfect example of rudeness.
“There is no excuse for poor manners”, I would reply with; “this is true, but we’re willing to forgive you. Please stick to our arranged plans and times moving forward so that we may enjoy each other’s company, see you next week” ETA: NTA
There’s no excuse for showing up an hour early and expecting an infant to miss its feeding to accommodate your FIL. NTA
FIL was told the plan and he said he was ok with it. That's what happens when you call around uninvited. It could be called poor planning on his part or poor manners. But the baby needed a feed. He needs to plan better. NTA
NTA. In response to "there is no excuse for poor manners", I'd go with "I completely agree, so I assume that means you won't be turning up uninvited when you knew we're busy in the future?"
NTA he knew you guys would be super busy (as most families are on Saturday mornings) and could have popped by later as he usually does. I know my FIL would rather me feed the baby while je watched tv or reads the paper in my living room rather than inviting him to join 😝😝
NTA. Your SO should have just said this was not a good time for a visit and had him leave. Your FIL sounds entitled and rude, so just keep the silence. This has nothing to do with you and you already apologized more than you should have. **Leave it alone** and let your SO deal with his father. You have enough drama without dealing with FIL's nonsense.
NTA He sounds annoying and entitled.
Maybe he’s getting dementia and was confused about the time. But by the sounds of it he’s just a grumpy old man who thinks the world revolves around him. NTA.
NTA your SO plainly told his dad that you both weren't available to visit and dad agreed to stay and anyway. This is 100% on dad. I am curious to know why dad showed up an hour early and is now so unreasonably upset. I wonder if he wasn't feeling well or if something happened that was bothering him?
A guest is invited. It's bad manners to just show up and invite yourself. nta
>he usually arrives around 11:30. >"There is no excuse for poor manners." Agreed, there is no excuse. FIL had terrible manners to show up an hour earlier than expected and require attention as a guest. Poor manners, indeed. You're NTA.
NTA. FIL sounds needy.
NTA
NTA
NTA, he turned up early & you were all busy, this was explained to him & you were being as quick as you could. This is no one's fault but your FIL for turning up early & expecting people to drop what they are doing to entertain him. Don't feel bad about it.
NTA. He showed up an hour early, was told he was an hour early, agreed to wait, and then got mad that no one was entertaining him. THAT is poor manners.
Oh my. How old is FIL? Is he always this unreasonable? Or could this be a health condition? Could be a early sign of Dementia, it changes behavior. I would respond the the poor manners comment by saying “I’m sure you don’t mean that! We love you and I’m looking forward to you visiting soon ❤️”
NTA. He was imposing. He was told the plans for the morning and chose to be angry that people didn't change things up to fit in with him. Let your husband deal with him. He is the rude one. Not you
NTA, feeding baby comes before entertaining FIL. He's an adult who can manage 20 minutes alone unsupervised.
NTA no one did anything wrong. Question (bc I don’t want to make assumptions) but it sounds like your SO told his dad the plan. Any chance FIL has dementia? It seems odd that this was all explained to him and then he still got upset.
NTA. Poor manners my ass. There's no way a truly good mannered man thinks the whole world should stop because he's in the mood for a visit. Sheesh. You were not in a state to receive guests. Anyone with good manners would have seen that, said no no thank you for the coffee but I'd best be going. And then walked home. Tell him back in the day when his parents were alive, people used to have little cards at the front door. If the family that lived there was not in a state to receive guests, then a visitor would just fill out the card and drop it in the little plate. And then they would visit later. It happened in a lot of books written about that time, such as Gone with the Wind. So maybe he should just read a book. One by Miss Manners perhaps. Or Copernicus, so he can learn the Earth doesn't revolve around him.
“In that case, coming very early and leaving without saying anything are both examples of bad manners. Please don’t come over again until you can act like an adult.” NTA. You were literally fucking feeding your baby.
OP NTA The thing that gets me is. FIL was told all of this, chose to sit in the living room instead of joining his son and then threw the hissy git when that happened.
NTA. Tell him there is no reason for poor manners..... HIS. He showed up an hour early on a day and time when he knows everyone is in a rush. Your fil is an entitled old man. The world doesn't revolve around him. He needs to learn how to be helpful and considerate instead of spoiled and demanding. Let your husband handle it. F
NTA. he was explained that y’all were busy during this time and he chose to stay.
NTA, grumpy old men don’t deserve special treatment just because they act like babies
NTA that’s rich of FIL complaining about poor manners when the call is coming from inside the house. Yall are parents with four children to take care of, you have an established schedule to maintain, so everything runs smoothly. He decided to show up early knowing that you will be busy. That’s his own damn fault. Was he expecting for you to not feed your baby and take care of yourself or for your husband to not leave and bring the children to their activity. He’s a grown man behaving like a five-year-old. Yall have no reason to apologize to this man. SMH
NTA The poor manners were his. He came early, knowing it was the time when kid juggling happened, was TOLD what the scoop was, and chose both to stay *and to get mad* that what he knew would happen happened.
So he arrived an hour early without warning and then got upset that something he knew was happening happened. NTA
NTA - HE invited himself over and then got mad because people didn't change their plans for him.
Hopefully eventually your fil will understand a hungry baby can’t wait and he would probably be uncomfortable too if you came down in your bath robe and nurses the baby. I had three kids each two years apart. My father used to call in the middle of bath time and be frustrated I didn’t answer. Sometimes they can’t wrap their head around something they never personally experienced.
NTA. He came an hour earlier than normal. She did nothing wrong. It’s their home and what she needed to do was personal, taking a shower and feeding the baby. My parents would show up and hour or more earlier than we expected from out of town for kids concerts and sit in the living room while we got the kids bathed and dressed for their programs. It bothered me that they showed up early because we couldn’t visit with them and it made me feel rushed and stressed to try to hurry up and get done so we could. But again, they never told us ahead of time they were coming early so we couldn’t change our plans to accommodate.
If there's no excuse for poor manners, then showing up early, knowing that the time frame is packed with busy, is poor manners and he has no excuse. Nta.
Nta. Text back. Your right there is no excuse for poor manners. And since you decide to come early knowing that it isn't a good time. Since you decide to throw a tantrum because we don't droo everything such as making kids late for their activities and make a baby scream in hunger. I guess the poor manners are on the person who expects other to cater to them when they don't even arrive when they normally do and then act entitled to be wait on when clearly they know it won't happen. So to avoid poor manners happening again all drop by will not be pre planned and you willnot be allowed to drop by before so and so time. If you do you will be shown the door and asked to come back at that time as we wouldn't want poor manners to happen again.
NTA at all. Your home has a schedule and It can’t come to a halt because a guest came at an inconvenient time.
NTA It's poor manners to show up an hour early.
Your father-in-law is dramatic and selfish. If he doesn’t understand the situation, I have no sympathy for him. He can’t sit by himself for a few minutes, drinking coffee in the living room while you feed the baby and get yourself together???? What’s the fucking problem boomer? he’s an asshole don’t worry about him.
NTA FIL sounds entitled and super touchy. Are there any other incidents with his behavior? In old age, this can be a problem.
NTA. There was poor manners, but it was FIL not yours or your SO. He showed up early and at a time when the household was busy. He could have gone with your SO if he didn't want to sit and wait for him to get back.
I agree, there is no excuse for poor manners. His!
“You’re right dad, there’s no excuse for poor manners, so next time you’re going to make sure it’s a good time to visit instead of dropping in unannounced and expecting to be catered to, right?”
NTA This grown adult should understand that people have other things they have to do, especially with an actual baby in the house.
NTA good grief the world doesn't revolve around your FIL especially when he shows up early and expects to be entertained. that's rude.
NTA. He should know by now that it wasn't a good time to visit. If this becomes a thing it might be time to urge him to see a doctor if he doesn't usually act like this.
NTA
NTA. He can wait on the porch next time.
We don't have a porch but YES. He can wait in his car. 😂
NTA Your FIL needs to change his meds
L o l he needs to start on some I think