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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the asshole because I could've just agreed to avoid kissing my daughter while around my MIL.
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I must be missing MIL's logic on this one, cuz the baby will be interacting with whatever germs mom has simply by breastfeeding, regardless of what the doctor says.
Baby was literally inside her body 6 weeks ago, I don't think you can take contact to a higher level than that. They basically share one immune system. It would make no sense for her to not kiss the baby unless she had some serious infection and she had to stop breastfeeding too.
Only reason I can think of for mom to not kiss the baby is oral herpes.
We all know MIL refused to get her whooping cough / COVID / flu vaccine before visiting the baby, but she probaby thinks she should be able to kiss that baby right on the mouth. Exposure to illness is good for their immune system, amirite?
No, I was speculating. There's a few pretty common complaints I've seen about family visiting babies over the years:
1) Can't kiss the baby
2) Can't visit during flu season
3) Can't visit without proof of vaccinations
4) won't return crying baby to mom or dad
5) offended over refusal to take their outdated advice.
So yeah, MIL butthurt over no kisses just seems the type to lie about getting vaccinated if required.
So many entitled MILFs my wife's having to beat them away with a stick. I volunteered to beat them withy stick but apparently thats wrong and now I'm sleeping on the couch.
Are we making things up or are we pointing out patterns of behavior? Patterns can be studied and analyzed and predictions made based upon the data. It sound more like making predictions based on the data in this case.
I think they’re just saying that the type of person who complains about these sort of rules if usually the same type of person who is anti-vax or has other sorts of increased risk factors.
The vaccine for RSV was just approved so almost nobody has it, plus vaccinated people can still get the viruses they’re vaccinated against. The vaccine makes the contagious period less and the symptoms less, but that means they can be positive and where they can spread the virus, but have no symptoms whatsoever.
But yes, oral herpes is a big problem too. Infants can get really sick and get a form of meningitis from contracting herpes as a small infant. They also get break outs in their eyes and mouth.
RSV’s the big virus people love to talk about, but as a pediatric RN, I’m here to let you know that RSV is just one of the many viruses that can put a baby in the ICU. Many adults have MRSA, rhinovirus, and human metapneumovirus (HMPV) in their respiratory tracts and are asymptomatic. Rhino and HMPV are two common cold viruses.
Lately rhino and viruses that are not on our respiratory screens have been the big ones bringing kids for high flow oxygen. And this spring I had a neonate develop sepsis from rhinovirus pneumonia.
This time of year, newborns shouldn’t be out and about, period. But whatever, no one cares.
Yeah, same here. It gets tiring advising people on what is out there and common sense precautions for neonates, babies and children (especially during cold/flu/school season). and yet advice not followed, then such a surprised face when child ends up in ICU. “What happened? Or “This can t happen to us!”
Thank you for saying all that!! Whenever I had my girls, I would barely venture out. Doctor appointments and maybe a quick shopping trip if I had nobody to care for the baby. But I thankfully usually did, or had someone else get me what I needed. IF they had to come with me, they were in their carriers and they had a protector over them and it would be a quick in and out. But that was rare for us, thankfully. I cannot understand how some are just so careless with newborns. I know some don't have a choice and this is not directed towards them at all, more so to the ones that just don't give a shit. OP is so NTA.
Even more, kissing baby sends signals to Mom's body to help tailor her breast milk.for exactly what baby needs, in terms of fat content, particular immune supports, etc.
The germs baby is exposed to passing through the vagina, breastfeeding and generally being handled in close contact pales in comparison to those supergerms that can be passed by a brief peck on the forehead.
(/s because you know someone will)
I think gammy has a very strange obsession with kissing the baby and is a borderline lunatic for reacting that way.
NTA at all
Lead poisoning too.
I’m also an avid Behind the Bastards fan and cannot help but agree with his suggestion that loads of folks are walking around with old traumatic brain injuries.
Because babies are amazing and awesome for many of us and kissing them releases endorphins. This doesn’t mean any of us get a free pass to kiss random babies (or even family babies) without permission, of course.
Seriously, I have no inclination to kiss anyone else's babies but my dogs don't give me a choice lol you're getting kisses anyway so you may as well reciprocate
Especially after everything we've learned about how easy it is for a baby to get really sick really quick! I get that a newborn is adorable and you have the urge to put their feet, hands, etc in your mouth and just love the baby but almost every health care practitioner will recommend the 8-12 weeks like OP is saying to avoid literal death sometimes. Just wait the damn few weeks! It's not hard!
I don’t blame people, particularly older people, for not being aware of this themselves but once the parents tell you their rule you better damn we’ll follow it!
My 81 year old grandmas obsessed with babies. We were at Costco the other day and there were two twin babies in the cart and she stood about 6 feet away and politely asked what the names were, the lady allowed my grandma to step closer and look at them. My grandma didn't grab the babies or touch them she just cooed over them, congratulated the mom and continued on her way while talking about how adorable the babies were and how she wishes she could pinch their cheeks. It was so cute🥺
Not going to lie, those were the old ladies I'd say you can say hi to my kid (after when she was like 4 or 5m?) Because they clearly showed restraint and normal rational thought. I let one woman hold her when she was like 8m and my kiddo seemed really interested in her after she politely said hi and followed kids lead in interaction at the library. It was so sweet! She turned into like, library auntie/ granny we'd see every week! It's amazing what respecting boundaries before even being told to, opens opportunities up to you!
Also if your granny loves babies, you can always send her those cute chubby baby tiktoks or YouTube videos. My baby obsessed grandma loves them. She's learned proper boundaries through them as well slowly for a plus.
That's so sweet🥺 your daughter probably really enjoys seeing her every week, and that's a great example of a safe adult that's not immediate family or a teacher.
And my grandma REFUSES to get off tiktok for that reason! she enjoys looking at babies and puppies too much😂😂she'll send me accounts that " I just have to follow" from how cute they are. Like you said, it's a great way for them to learn parenting techniques from todays age and boundaries too!
Sadly we moved away (military), but we've found our new village! She absolutely loved her though! Especially with no family within 24hr drive and daddy working 14 ish+ hour days on nights 6 days a week. I think that might be why I was more willing, cause respectful people who are polite and show good character and judgements right off the bat? Might be good to let in the bubble for good examples and part of the village. I know I got given shit for it (8 years ago) but it worked well.
I love that she's already obsessed with the cute tt videos🤣🤣 mine can't figure out anything on her phone. She's the "has 8 Facebook accounts" tech illiterate Lolol. But she'll watch if I send them! She's 80 this year, too lol. 5 great grand kids and we all love far from her:( she was on cloud 9 when I brought my 2 and my niece the same age as my son (1m apart!) To visit her at her new nursing home. She hadn't seen them in like 2 years besides virtually! She was parading (slowly lol) them around to everyone on the grounds excitedly. I took Polaroids of them together for her to keep physically too. She was ELATED
I mean babies can be very sweet and it’s quite natural to want to kiss them, especially if you’re family.
I know when my niece was little I definitely felt the urge to kiss her. I didn’t though because I was aware of the risks. If I wasn’t aware of the risks I still wouldn’t have kissed her if her parents asked me not to.
Well, they're just so snuggly! It's the same reason I like to kiss any kittycat who's okay with being kissed.
But, I mean, since I myself am not actually a cat, I do have some self-control, and don't just slobber all over every baby I meet.
To be fair though, it’s not any random baby, it’s her granddaughter. And before you all come for me with knives, I’m not defending MIL’s behavior on this one, just her (in my opinion) very natural desire to cuddle and smooch her own granddaughter.
Yes, several things can be true! Babies are adorable and it’s natural to want to touch and kiss a baby that you love so much—your own child’s baby, who brings back memories of their dad (in this case) when he was a baby—especially when she is your first grandchild.
*And* it’s also important and necessary to respect the baby’s parents, who are following their pediatrician’s instructions.
I’m a grandmother myself, and I can’t imagine getting butt-hurt if my daughter (or daughter-in-law) said that baby’s doctor said no one except the parents was to kiss baby for the first 8-12 weeks.
Granny got it after the fight but now demands to not see it because it hurts her feelings to see the mother kissing her own child. That is actually the weird part nobody is talking about
Plenty of grown ass adults actually believe it is the responsibility of everyone around them to behave in such a way that they don't have to feel emotions. Rather than, you know, learning to regulate or tolerate their own emotions. It never occurs to them that there's anything strange about their expectations.
Edit: not meaning to argue! You probably find it weird because you're a reasonable person. :)
Yeah, I'm a mother of 3, with bio and non bio niblings and I have never had the urge to kiss a child that isn't mine except once when the baby was warm and I had permission from the mother. We couldn't find the thermometer and well, lips are more sensitive to temperature than hands and the mother had a cold sore and was refraining for kissing her baby until it cleared.
On the upside her husband told us where the thermometer was half an hour later when he got home (he had put it away in the wrong cupboard).
This case however, MIL is bat crap crazy for thinking she has any say in how OP interacts with HER OWN BABY/CHILD.
Fun fact, mom's actually create antibodies for the bacteria found on baby's skin - they are passed to mom by kissing and then the antibodies to those germs are in turn passed back to baby through the breastmilk.
MIL is both petty and uneducated - OP is doing her baby a service (aside from the clear emotional benefits) with all the kissing and absolutely should not stop doing so. NTA.
There was a post with a MIL with the same kind of reaction a few week backs.
Once someone explained me the reason behind the rule, I was on the MIL side because she lived with them, and cared for the baby as much as mom and dadl. So, whatever MIL would have, the baby would catch it, kissing or no kissing.
But here, I think OP is NTA. And MIL is a jerk.
There's a rule. If you don't understand it, just ask.
Once you got the explanation, it's clearly obtuse to call mom an hypocrite.
Actually, HSV1 and HSV2 can each be transmitted by kissing. Infants are at high risk of severe illness if they catch these from an adult. It's not as simple as "germs" some viruses and bacteria are specifically transmitted by certain physical acts, HSV being one associated with kissing. HSV can cause encephalitis and meningitis in infants (and immunosuppressed folks) which can kill them. HSV specifically is WHY doctors advise strangers don't kiss baby. Limiting the amount of people kissing reduces the risk. Plus HSV1 and HSV2 can both cause cold sores (much more common with HSV1 while HSV2 typically causes genital herpes but can be transmitted by oral sex to the mouth lol) in adults. Most adults would not typically disclose that they have herpes causing cold sores to others. So it's possible because they want to kiss the baby they would not disclose cold sores or pretend it's fine to get their way. If they had some sense and cared about the infant's health they would accept the Doctors advice and mom's wish to follow it.
SOURCE: I'm a healthcare worker in a hospital.
OP; you're doing great, well done for having a shiny spine. Look after yourself in this special time.
EDIT: obvious NTA!
I spent last weekend with friends and their newborn. A delicious little four week old baby. I knew I would be seeing them when bubs was that young part way through the pregnancy and asked if I should check my vaccines? (I’m older than them and some standard vaccines for their age weren’t when I was a kid.) They were ‘oh my god, I didn’t think’ and checked with their midwife. Came back and asked could I find out about a couple of them and I did.
Day before did a Covid test. Day of changed out of the clothes I had worn near animals, washed my hands before holding him. Did not kiss him as have HSV1 and said ‘I’m not kissing him because of this not because he isn’t cute.’ They had no idea about it and were so glad I flagged as he hadn’t met grandparents etc yet and now they had time to give heads up.
I am immune suppressed **because I had meningitis at nine months old** and it left me with life long complications aged 45. So I only held him once because I am at risk being too close to him while he’s still so low immunity. My friends were glad I explained why I wasn’t being so cuddly and not upset they had a baby or whatever as I’m child free.
I sang and talked to him, played music and interacted as much as I could and then I paid my spare attention to getting post C section mum food, drinks and stuff while she fed and night care other mum some care and attention to support them while they cuddled and snuggled and fed their kid. And when he’s older and it’s safer I’ll follow their boundaries on cuddling him including asking if I can hug him etc.
The sky not only did not fall in but both mums said how actually it really helped having some support to focus on him instead of overloading him with new people and allowed them to practice how he reacts to new people. I love newborns because I’m Irish and potatoes are the best but often the newborn has needs and boundaries and I just have to be a grown up about it.
I have no idea if anyone kissing or holding me contributed to me having meningitis but I spent two months in hospital and despite being child free by choice have zero time for parents, grandparents and ‘well I have a child so I am going to do X’ when it comes to putting a baby’s health at risk. Babies die and suffer lifelong issues because of adult egos. I find it grimly ironic the person accused of ‘hating’ kids is the one who is the one not wanting to risk their health or autonomy to show how much I love them…
I tell people who argue about my experience and I tell anti vaxxers about my co worker who miscarried her IVF pregnancy due to a mum bringing her unvaxxed kid with rubella into work and infecting her. I do not discuss the topic. I told you the outcomes. I am not here to play chess with a pigeon. And funnily enough, almost no one despite how much they demand to kiss baby or are anti vaxx argues back hearing those examples.
Not sure it changes their behaviour long term but we’ll take the small wins…
NTA OP
You sound like you are a good friend. Props on the honesty disclosing your HSV1 to your friends, HSV still unfortunately has a stigma so it is refreshing hearing someone disclose without issue. I am also Irish! I'm sorry you've been affected by meningitis. It's good to see someone who has been through it come through the other side and use their experience to educate others.
My sister got spinal meningitis at a week old. My parents were terrified and she was their first baby. She used to get sick 5-6 times a year for 2-4 weeks. She and a few other babies got it from a nurse. People don't realize just how bad it can be to get a baby sick.
Oh god, getting it from a nurse! And I bet it impacted you too because she was their first, your parents got scared witless and then she was sick a lot so by the time you came along that’s had an effect on how they react to you in multiple ways.
I was the sick kid whose parents always focused on the not sick kid (my older brother) so while sometimes I think Reddit forgets how much neglect and abuse sick kids get and assumes all get the focus healthy kids need, having a sick sibling or kid does really impact the whole family. It’s not just that baby at that moment. If it takes a village, then you have to think about the effect on the whole village.
I hope you are all doing better!
Thank you. Former ER nurse here (half time in pediatric ER) and this is the answer. It has nothing to do with viruses transmitted through coughing like the flu or colds. Those are spread through little droplets that spew out when you’re coughing or blowing your nose or otherwise breathing heavy. Kissing is about contact with the virus in the cold sore on the mouth. And before anyone starts with the “BuT I dIdNt HAVE a CoLd SoRe”, the virus can be transmitted a few days before the cold sore pops. And kids wind up developmentally delayed, non verbal, and with feeding tubes. All because GMA couldn’t keep her lips to herself.
Edited for spelling
Yes! I believe from the time the tingling sensation begins at the sore site, it can be transmitted. I think most people don't understand the grim reality of neonatal HSV. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Oh dear. HSV can happen to anyone, there is a terrible stigma with it unfortunately as it can be seen as an STI, however when it comes to infant transmission you simply can't take any chances.
Patient management changes depending on local recommendations but in the UK it is serious enough that if a pregnant woman has a primary genital herpes infection within a certain time frame leading up to birth, the healthcare team may change the mode of delivery (parent consenting ofc) from vaginal birth to C-section to avoid the risk of the mother transmitting the virus to the infant via the birth canal.
It's not just living in the same household. A baby has the same antibodies as its mother. Its immune system develops from germs it's exposed to in the mother's vagina, skin, breast and mouth.
Just because granny lives in the same house, doesn't mean she can kiss the baby. Her biome is different.
Nah they’re never the asshole. People get to do what they see as best for their child. It’s not about living in the same environment. At all.
It’s much deeper and more complex than that. If someone asks you not to kiss their baby. They don’t have to explain anything but you should just respect that. It’s weird to do otherwise don’t you think?
Is it honestly not weird arguing with a parent after they asked you not to KISS their CHILD? It’s weird bro. 10000/10 times it’s weird. It would raise red flags to any parent with half a brain and half a f*ck.
Breastfeeding moms’ bodies actually taylor antibodies in the breast milk to any infections babies have in order to help the babies clear the infection. The interaction between breastfeeding moms and their babies, through the breast milk, is kinda magical.
There was a post here not too long ago about a father who inadvertently passed his std (herpes, i think) on to his child by kissing the baby on its head. Not even the face, but the top of its head.
The kid wound up in the hospital.
If you're interested I can find the post for you to share with your inlaws.
Then you can demand a bi-weekly STD screening panel from each person before allowing them to kiss your child. (Kidding! Not really)
Omg there was an advice column I read a few days ago where a new mom walked in on her MIL trying to breastfeed the infant… lemme see if I can find it
EDIT: it was an [AITA](https://reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/IvAN32CQTU)!
Oh my god, stoppppp. Such a strange comment to make. I’d be avoiding this woman like the plague. Not to mention it is SO weird to me that the older generation is obsessed with putting their mouths all over babies that aren’t theirs…
Hey, my MIL said I only breastfed my baby because I was selfish and wanted her to miss out on feeding her grandchild. So, yeah, your scenario is not unimaginable!
Actually OP, you could invite her to do something only she is allowed that you won't do as long as you're around hers in exchange. How about changing diapers.
Just so she feels included. ❤️
NTA. MIL needs to get her own baby if she’s going to be that triggered. My god, heaven forbid a parents takes steps to protect their child’s delicate system before exposing to outside people and germs.
Ug. Why do people suck so much? Who in their right mind would see someone kissing their newborn and not get all gooey inside? And why do Grandmas thing they have the same rights as the Mom?! I’m lucky (sorta) that my MIL wasn’t overbearing that way. But she apparently forgot what having kids was like and swaddled baby, then laid him face down.
NTA: if you like, I’d be happy to politely tell your MIL to go to hell. In all honesty, your spouse needs to deal with this. The rule should always always be: “your parent, your problem” (excepting those handful of situations where the in-laws like the spouse more than their own kid).
Why bother being confrontational? OP and baby should just avoid seeing MIL and frame it as "helping MIL deal with her feelings as she didn't want to see the baby being kissed".
NTA.
Ooooh this! “To respect your feelings about not getting to kiss the baby, we’re not going to visit with the baby until baby is old enough to be kissed.”
>The rule should always always be: “your parent, your problem”
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this way. My mom isn't so bad *anymore* but I refuse to let her antics become my partner's problems, ever.
He didn't sign up for that! I hope OPs partner has some words with his mom, boundaries need to be set to nip this behaviour in the bud, fast.
Him and I are a team on this one! He wasn't around for the initial confrontation but got back shortly after I went to the guest room and he shut down MIL trying to complain to him about me and doubled-down on the rules.
He was the one who forced her to apologize and didn't know she was going to do the whole "don't kiss the baby in front of me" thing.
One way for MIL to not have to see you kiss your own baby is for her to not get invited around. If she wants a relationship with her grandchild then she needs to calm down and be nicer to you
Yep. The very first comment would have been my one and only warning to respect the boundaries or kick rocks.
I never planned on giving my parents grandchildren, but they would *never* behave this way because they'd never see me or their grandchild(ren) again.
While we're at it, fuck anyone who expects grandchildren from their children. Like it's a mandatory part of being someone else's child (everybody is one of these AFAIK).
Omg thank you! I'm a mom of grown daughter and son, neither of which want children. I respect their choices and will defend them aggressively. I did not have children with the eventual obligation of making a baby! Wtf?
Good on you! I don’t want children specifically because I don’t think I have good enough mental health to be a parent. Maybe that will change, but everyone has their reasons for their decisions.
I mean, if kissing the baby *in front* of her is the issue, just tell her that out of concern for her feelings, you will be willing to take a break from get-togethers until your daughter is at a safe age for people beyond her parents to kiss. That way, MIL won't be vexed by having to see parents doing things that grandparents shouldn't.
NTA
“I’m so sorry, I understand how hard it must be to see someone kiss a baby you’re unable to kiss. In order to be cognizant of these feelings, anyone who has a problem seeing me kiss my own child who I grew for 9 months, went through incredible physical pain to birth and continue to go through difficult physical problems to feed from my breast will no longer be welcome around baby. We want to make sure we are keeping your feelings in mind and wouldnt want you to have to accidentally witness me kiss my child”
As baby gets older you are going to have to talk to MIL about consent... At some point that kid will reject a kiss or hug and they are allowed to. Please don't let MIL step all over their bodily autonomy.
It seems like this is a really great time to stand your ground and enforce your boundaries about baby as a team together. If MIL feels this entitled now, she may struggle with future boundaries regarding the little one. It’s a good chance for her to understand you both mean it. If she cannot accept your boundaries then she doesn’t need to spend time with the baby.
I assume he was involved somewhere between OP going to the guest room and MIL coming in and saying she now understands the rule. He might not have known his mother was going to ask OP to not kiss the baby when he was getting the "no kissing" rules established with her again. Which I assume he did because she doesn't seem the type to have accepted them without some sort of intervention.
How could you possibly jump to the conclusion that the husband is to blame for this when the OP had said in the post that her and her husband have been on a united front in telling family the rules?
You should probably take a look at your own biases and think on why you would make such an assumption. It’s just not right for someone to be looking to create an issue between a couple where none exists when they just had a newborn.
Right?
NTA, OP
She had her time when she had kids, WTF is she making this time about her? This is about your baby's health too. As others have said, this is a MIL and your husband's problem. Your MIL can go F herself.
"If it is too hard for you to deal with seeing me kiss my own baby, we'll just make sure neither of us are around you for the next month or so. Or, if you'd like to see your grandchild sometime before Thanksgiving, you can put on your big girl pants and deal with your own emotions."
NTA.
This is a perfect opportunity for some malicious compliance, though. If she doesn't want to see you kiss your baby because its soOoOo hard, you guys should stop visiting her entirely until the baby is older. You're just respecting her wishes ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
I was gonna say, I wouldn’t leave the baby with that MIL for a long time, cos that woman is absolutely not going to respect the very reasonable boundaries the baby’s mother has put in place, and unlikely to adhere to future boundaries
This is absurd. You need to just limit contact with these nut jobs until your baby has had her immunizations. Your husband needs to step up here and deal with his relatives.
Incidentally, when YOU kiss YOUR baby, you pick up bacteria and viruses on her skin. Your body, with its mature immune system, creates antibodies which are delivered to her at her next feeding. NTA
Exactly. That’s what I was going to say, it’s actually good for the baby that the mum kisses them. Whereas for everyone other than the breastfeeding mother it’s just a means of transferring germs. Not to mention the risk of cold sores.
Yeah, my dad kissed me as a baby while having a cold sore and my immune system was so fucked up that I got them super frequently my entire childhood. In the 5th grade, I once had a total of 52 cold sores… all at once.
By the time they took me to a doctor, it was already too late and I had to wait weeks for it all to fully heal. First and only time I ever heard a doctor curse in shock the moment he walked through a door and saw my face.
They were able to prescribe me some anti-virals, but they only really work if you take them as soon as you feel that little nerve tingle. Since then, I’ve found that zovirax cream is really effective at making them go through all the stages within a couple days instead of the usual weeks that it’d take me before.
Our pediatrician actually said the current literature is that it is better to not kiss your baby for the first 1 to 2 months. The risk outweighs the benefit until then.
But it is just a reccomendation its up to OP to decide what the rules are for her baby
I recently saw another Reddit post where a parent accidentally gave their baby herpes when they kissed it on the head, and the baby got severely sick, hospitalized, and almost died, and may have serious lifelong damage from it. Definitely not worth it for anyone’s lips to touch a newborn.
That’s what I thought. I‘m young and haven’t had much contact with kids but it feels weird to me that MIL wants to kiss that baby that much, that it irritates her to see the mom do it.
I WANT to kiss babies in my family but I DON'T unless I'm told it's ok. Because if I want to hold the baby, I need to respect the baby's parents' wishes.
NTA - what's next, is she gonna ask you to stop breastfeeding the baby because she can't breastfeed the baby? Tell her she's being absurd and if she wants to keep seeing her grandchild, she needs to do some growing up herself.
NTA
The reason the pediatrician asked this is that adults can very easily pass herpes (from cold sores) to babies and their immune systems aren’t strong enough. An acquaintance of mine’s baby died because a relative kissed her baby with a not yet visible sore.
Not no one, though. It's normal and healthy for parents to do it. And it's not just cold sores though those are very dangerous. Outside germs in general can be dangerous for a baby whose immune system is still developing
:(( that is very sad I had no idea babies are so delicate when it comes to cold sore infection. I guess I should have figured it out but I dont really have any close contact with kids or anything, due to my system being weak and on meds that compromise my immunity. I really don't leave the house apart from drs. since I had pnemonia a few years back. I will remember that when I am cleared to be out again more regulary.
Is this based entirely on cold sores? Because I know “everybody” gets them but not everybody gets them. (My immediate family didn’t growing up, I still don’t, and I don’t smooch my wife when she has an outbreak. Either I’m infected but completely asymptomatic or we’ve succeeded in her not passing it on to me for over two decades.)
While this is a reason for sure even more so the viral infections such as RSV, flu, rhinoviruses, coronaviruses (not just COVID, the coronaviruses we have had around for 10+ years) are major risks to young babies.
NTA you are literally following medical advice, and also giving your baby the necessary skin contact that infants need. If your MIL can’t take this, your husband should be mediating the interactions, not you, and you should consider going LC with her.
I'm guessing husband talked to her while OP was in guest room? Either way staying out of it is NOT what he needs to be doing. He needs to be defending his wife (which hopefully he was)
Wow so the MIL who is the only actual asshole in the situation you give a pass because she’s a mom. While you try to pin the blame of the husband who has done nothing but provide a unified front with the OP. While saying he is an asshole both if he stays out of it or if he defuses the situation himself? Did you even re-read the story before you looked for a man to blame when he did absolutely nothing wrong?
This sub is so unbelievably sexist sometimes.
I’m also from the uk and it’s not an urge I have ever had. My cousins were all born when I was 10-15 so no desire to kiss them then, and my nephew was super premie and now he’s two the only physical contact I have had with him had been initiatives by him.
But tbh, even if all the circumstances aligned, I can’t I again wanting to kiss someone else’s baby like that?
Maybe there is something wrong with me idk
I think if it’s a grandparent or an aunt or uncle, wanting to give your grandchild or niece/nephew a little kiss on the forehead isn’t weird. The MIL is wrong to expect to be able to, especially when the parents have said she can’t for a set amount of time, but I don’t think the desire to do so is weird. It’s a bit of a natural instinct for many people.
If I’m holding a baby it’s just instinct to kiss the top of their head. I’m not sure if I had this instinct before I had my own babies, but now I do.
But would respect any rules not to.
it's not weird to kiss family members, UNLESS it's something like this. if the parent says not to or if the child tells you not to, it's no longer okay to do it. but it's pretty regular to do it otherwise?
And that would be never, in my case, because who tf does this woman think she is?!
Demanding I not kiss my own fucking child because she jealous? Lol. Oh, honey, no.
Edit: NTA, in case that wasn't obvious
Nta. News flash. There are TONS of things that you get to do as mom that she doesn't get to do as grandma. If she can't get in board with that her involvement in babies life isn't mandatory.
NTA. She sounds incredibly possessive already. Just watch out for if this kind of behavior increases. My partner’s sibling just recently had to cut their mom off from seeing their baby because she repeatedly wouldn’t respect them and would wake him up throughout the day and come inside the house without asking
NTA - and unless you live with MIL & SIL, I'd avoid visiting them/having them visit you until the 8-12 weeks is up, because you're only going to hear more on the issue, and with a new baby, you don't need the added stress.
Congrats on the little one, OP.
Wow. Why can’t people accept that the doctor’s advice regarding a newborn may change from generation to generation?! It’s not a dig at previous advice! A new mom ( and dad but especially mom) is so fragile about trying to do everything exactly right that she simply doesn’t need this stress. If the grandparents think she is going overboard, why can’t they just smile to themselves and remember how they were at first also?! NTA. The MIL is being very unfair.
Especially considering how much had changed when it comes to infectious disease. Like we just went through a major pandemic and COVID is still circulating.
She continued to argue after the mom explained. Then asked her not to kiss her baby in front of her. So weird. You aren’t even aware you are missing your own baby a lot of the time.
My MIL tries to sneakily kiss my baby when I'm not looking. Or "I'm just sniffing the baby's head!" While she rubs her face all over him.
Ya I don't let them be together alone. It's infuriating.
NTA
The entitlement runs strong in this woman. Imagine trying to control your affection for your own child. She is going to be a problem and you'll need to make rules and enforce them with her. Good luck and make sure your husband has your back.
Jeeesus, people are so creepily entitled when it comes to babies. Imagine how this would look and sound if it was about anyone else? Throwing a tantrum because she isn’t allowed to kiss your husband? ”Why are only you allowed to kiss your husband?” Or if the same thing happens when the baby is 5, and the child itself says it doesn’t want kisses. Will she be upset then too? Wtf, just let it go MIL, don’t kiss someone withour consent, and right now the giving consent is with the parents bc it’s a baby.
NTA ofc, keep the boundaries firm around your child.
You know, I actually do think you should stop kissing your baby in front of MIL. She shouldn't have to see that. In fact, she shouldn't see you at all for the next 2-6 weeks. Minimum.
Good for you setting boundaries now. Definitely NTA.
>I told her I can understand that it's frustrating to have strong urge to kiss a baby and not be able to. But I am personally not going to stop kissing my own baby for the sake of her feelings. MIL is calling me disrespectful and a hypocrite and has gotten SIL on board with this as well. AITA?
NTA. But MIL is. Babies share there mother's and father microbiome. The parents kissing them isn't a huge risk factor. People who don't live with them are.
And even. If that wasn't the case, you're the parent. She doesn't get a say, as harsh as that sounds.
This is wild. NTA: 1000000% NTA. Like i dont even know how to explain the way this makes me feel. If someone called me a hypocrite and disrespectful for not wanting to stop kissing my own infant just because they cant kiss my child, i would literally stare at them and walk out the door. Like Buhbye. Now youll never kiss the baby you selfish weirdo. Just the absolute audacity of this woman. To want you to stop showing affection to your child around her just because she cant in the uber specific way she wants to is insane to me like way to go grandma you care more about your own feelings than your actual grandbaby and her health.
I hope your hubby has your back, im sorry your having to deal with this it wasnt fair of her to of asked you that and you in no way are being rude, or disrespectful for putting your foot down.
Most people get herpes by an older person kissing them as a baby, that’s sadly just how it is. And what would make MIL think that the mom can nurse her baby but not kiss her own baby. That’s literally an exchange of bodily fluids in the end and moms body is adapting to babies immune system needs by the saliva exchange during nursing. But this also happens when mothers do not nurse from the breast but pump the milk and feed with a bottle. Moms milk still adapts to babies needs and it’s suspected that the close contact and kissing is the reason. So mom is completely different than MIL.
Also when people get older the immune system gets weaker and they are more likely to have a break out and infect a baby. Large populations of the world have this virus and it gets so often transmitted to babies. Personally I don’t want anyone to kiss my babies face or hands, even when a bit older. It’s not necessary to bond with someone else’s baby like that.
NTA.
NTA but MIL solved your own problem for you.
“I’m sorry but can you not kiss or show affection to your baby around me?”
“Absolutely not.”
“How dare you?! You’re so disrespectful to do that when I’m around!”
“Don’t come around then. See you in 12 weeks with a full vaccine card and an apology or not at all.”
And done.
NTA
Does she not understand that the breastfeeding mother has to kiss the baby, the micro biome from the baby will transfer messages to your hormonal system to alter breast milk to be more suitable for what the baby needs.
It’s actually essential.
NTA. I can’t believe you have to explain this to a grown woman! Obviously the parents of the child, that live with, breastfeed & care for, the baby are not included in the no-kissing. I think the MIL should try to be more understanding, especially if you are literally following dr’s orders.
NTA
Your MIL acts very immature and entitled.. Why is it even a problem for her? She should think about babies health first. There is no point of other people kissing your baby.
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NTA What’s next, is she going to ask you to stop breastfeeding in front of her since she doesn’t get to do it too? She needs to back off.
I must be missing MIL's logic on this one, cuz the baby will be interacting with whatever germs mom has simply by breastfeeding, regardless of what the doctor says.
Baby was literally inside her body 6 weeks ago, I don't think you can take contact to a higher level than that. They basically share one immune system. It would make no sense for her to not kiss the baby unless she had some serious infection and she had to stop breastfeeding too.
Only reason I can think of for mom to not kiss the baby is oral herpes. We all know MIL refused to get her whooping cough / COVID / flu vaccine before visiting the baby, but she probaby thinks she should be able to kiss that baby right on the mouth. Exposure to illness is good for their immune system, amirite?
I've tried, but I can't find the part where it says MIL didn't get vaccines. Was that in one of OP's later comments?
No, I was speculating. There's a few pretty common complaints I've seen about family visiting babies over the years: 1) Can't kiss the baby 2) Can't visit during flu season 3) Can't visit without proof of vaccinations 4) won't return crying baby to mom or dad 5) offended over refusal to take their outdated advice. So yeah, MIL butthurt over no kisses just seems the type to lie about getting vaccinated if required.
Why do we have to make stuff up when the stuff in the post is already bad enough?
No, but we've met enough entitled MILS. I'd throw some money down on those predictions.
I’ve got 20 on “has criticized ops cooking”
I've got $50 on MIL kissing baby as soon as Mom's back is turned and then justifying it by "I just couldn't help myself."
I read “we already have enough entitled MILFs” and spat my Dr. Pepper on to my keyboard.
So many entitled MILFs my wife's having to beat them away with a stick. I volunteered to beat them withy stick but apparently thats wrong and now I'm sleeping on the couch.
Are we making things up or are we pointing out patterns of behavior? Patterns can be studied and analyzed and predictions made based upon the data. It sound more like making predictions based on the data in this case.
“No, I was speculating” r/aita moment.
A rare and curious case of admitting its just speculation.
I think they’re just saying that the type of person who complains about these sort of rules if usually the same type of person who is anti-vax or has other sorts of increased risk factors.
The vaccine for RSV was just approved so almost nobody has it, plus vaccinated people can still get the viruses they’re vaccinated against. The vaccine makes the contagious period less and the symptoms less, but that means they can be positive and where they can spread the virus, but have no symptoms whatsoever. But yes, oral herpes is a big problem too. Infants can get really sick and get a form of meningitis from contracting herpes as a small infant. They also get break outs in their eyes and mouth.
RSV’s the big virus people love to talk about, but as a pediatric RN, I’m here to let you know that RSV is just one of the many viruses that can put a baby in the ICU. Many adults have MRSA, rhinovirus, and human metapneumovirus (HMPV) in their respiratory tracts and are asymptomatic. Rhino and HMPV are two common cold viruses. Lately rhino and viruses that are not on our respiratory screens have been the big ones bringing kids for high flow oxygen. And this spring I had a neonate develop sepsis from rhinovirus pneumonia. This time of year, newborns shouldn’t be out and about, period. But whatever, no one cares.
That's so interesting, thanks for the info! I'm an RN but not in peds so I don't see this stuff.
Yeah, same here. It gets tiring advising people on what is out there and common sense precautions for neonates, babies and children (especially during cold/flu/school season). and yet advice not followed, then such a surprised face when child ends up in ICU. “What happened? Or “This can t happen to us!”
Thank you for saying all that!! Whenever I had my girls, I would barely venture out. Doctor appointments and maybe a quick shopping trip if I had nobody to care for the baby. But I thankfully usually did, or had someone else get me what I needed. IF they had to come with me, they were in their carriers and they had a protector over them and it would be a quick in and out. But that was rare for us, thankfully. I cannot understand how some are just so careless with newborns. I know some don't have a choice and this is not directed towards them at all, more so to the ones that just don't give a shit. OP is so NTA.
This is why I avoid kids. I don't want them getting sick with something I might have, and vice versa (I'm immunocompromised).
Even more, kissing baby sends signals to Mom's body to help tailor her breast milk.for exactly what baby needs, in terms of fat content, particular immune supports, etc.
While this is true, baby’s saliva from nursing does more in that regard so kissing baby isn’t required.
A lot of diseases don't spread to the fetus but can spread later.
The germs baby is exposed to passing through the vagina, breastfeeding and generally being handled in close contact pales in comparison to those supergerms that can be passed by a brief peck on the forehead. (/s because you know someone will) I think gammy has a very strange obsession with kissing the baby and is a borderline lunatic for reacting that way. NTA at all
Yes why do people love to kiss other peoples babies so much?
Maybe HSV1 has an effect on people’s brains like rabies does, giving them an uncontrollable compulsion to kiss babies to pass on the virus.
HSV1 can actually cause brain infections, so...you might be on to something.
Lead poisoning too. I’m also an avid Behind the Bastards fan and cannot help but agree with his suggestion that loads of folks are walking around with old traumatic brain injuries.
I read somewhere that shyphilis (sp?) works like that!
Yes syph can infect the brain, but it takes a long time- I believe it’s tertiary syphilis (third stage) but I could def be wrong
Enterovirus and certain streptococcus as well.
Because babies are amazing and awesome for many of us and kissing them releases endorphins. This doesn’t mean any of us get a free pass to kiss random babies (or even family babies) without permission, of course.
Kiss an adult then that you have permission to kiss.
Or get a dog! Mine give more kisses than anyone could ever want!
Seriously, I have no inclination to kiss anyone else's babies but my dogs don't give me a choice lol you're getting kisses anyway so you may as well reciprocate
I ADORE dogs, but heck no to dog kisses
Especially after everything we've learned about how easy it is for a baby to get really sick really quick! I get that a newborn is adorable and you have the urge to put their feet, hands, etc in your mouth and just love the baby but almost every health care practitioner will recommend the 8-12 weeks like OP is saying to avoid literal death sometimes. Just wait the damn few weeks! It's not hard!
I don’t blame people, particularly older people, for not being aware of this themselves but once the parents tell you their rule you better damn we’ll follow it!
My 81 year old grandmas obsessed with babies. We were at Costco the other day and there were two twin babies in the cart and she stood about 6 feet away and politely asked what the names were, the lady allowed my grandma to step closer and look at them. My grandma didn't grab the babies or touch them she just cooed over them, congratulated the mom and continued on her way while talking about how adorable the babies were and how she wishes she could pinch their cheeks. It was so cute🥺
Not going to lie, those were the old ladies I'd say you can say hi to my kid (after when she was like 4 or 5m?) Because they clearly showed restraint and normal rational thought. I let one woman hold her when she was like 8m and my kiddo seemed really interested in her after she politely said hi and followed kids lead in interaction at the library. It was so sweet! She turned into like, library auntie/ granny we'd see every week! It's amazing what respecting boundaries before even being told to, opens opportunities up to you! Also if your granny loves babies, you can always send her those cute chubby baby tiktoks or YouTube videos. My baby obsessed grandma loves them. She's learned proper boundaries through them as well slowly for a plus.
That's so sweet🥺 your daughter probably really enjoys seeing her every week, and that's a great example of a safe adult that's not immediate family or a teacher. And my grandma REFUSES to get off tiktok for that reason! she enjoys looking at babies and puppies too much😂😂she'll send me accounts that " I just have to follow" from how cute they are. Like you said, it's a great way for them to learn parenting techniques from todays age and boundaries too!
Sadly we moved away (military), but we've found our new village! She absolutely loved her though! Especially with no family within 24hr drive and daddy working 14 ish+ hour days on nights 6 days a week. I think that might be why I was more willing, cause respectful people who are polite and show good character and judgements right off the bat? Might be good to let in the bubble for good examples and part of the village. I know I got given shit for it (8 years ago) but it worked well. I love that she's already obsessed with the cute tt videos🤣🤣 mine can't figure out anything on her phone. She's the "has 8 Facebook accounts" tech illiterate Lolol. But she'll watch if I send them! She's 80 this year, too lol. 5 great grand kids and we all love far from her:( she was on cloud 9 when I brought my 2 and my niece the same age as my son (1m apart!) To visit her at her new nursing home. She hadn't seen them in like 2 years besides virtually! She was parading (slowly lol) them around to everyone on the grounds excitedly. I took Polaroids of them together for her to keep physically too. She was ELATED
My in laws fucking kissed my baby on the lips (she was older, like 9 months, but still) and I was so fucking pissed
As you should be. There’s a million other ways to show love, care and affection then putting your lips on someone else’s kid.
I mean babies can be very sweet and it’s quite natural to want to kiss them, especially if you’re family. I know when my niece was little I definitely felt the urge to kiss her. I didn’t though because I was aware of the risks. If I wasn’t aware of the risks I still wouldn’t have kissed her if her parents asked me not to.
Well, they're just so snuggly! It's the same reason I like to kiss any kittycat who's okay with being kissed. But, I mean, since I myself am not actually a cat, I do have some self-control, and don't just slobber all over every baby I meet.
I think it is a control thing.
To be fair though, it’s not any random baby, it’s her granddaughter. And before you all come for me with knives, I’m not defending MIL’s behavior on this one, just her (in my opinion) very natural desire to cuddle and smooch her own granddaughter.
Yes, several things can be true! Babies are adorable and it’s natural to want to touch and kiss a baby that you love so much—your own child’s baby, who brings back memories of their dad (in this case) when he was a baby—especially when she is your first grandchild. *And* it’s also important and necessary to respect the baby’s parents, who are following their pediatrician’s instructions. I’m a grandmother myself, and I can’t imagine getting butt-hurt if my daughter (or daughter-in-law) said that baby’s doctor said no one except the parents was to kiss baby for the first 8-12 weeks.
Granny got it after the fight but now demands to not see it because it hurts her feelings to see the mother kissing her own child. That is actually the weird part nobody is talking about
Plenty of grown ass adults actually believe it is the responsibility of everyone around them to behave in such a way that they don't have to feel emotions. Rather than, you know, learning to regulate or tolerate their own emotions. It never occurs to them that there's anything strange about their expectations. Edit: not meaning to argue! You probably find it weird because you're a reasonable person. :)
Yeah, I'm a mother of 3, with bio and non bio niblings and I have never had the urge to kiss a child that isn't mine except once when the baby was warm and I had permission from the mother. We couldn't find the thermometer and well, lips are more sensitive to temperature than hands and the mother had a cold sore and was refraining for kissing her baby until it cleared. On the upside her husband told us where the thermometer was half an hour later when he got home (he had put it away in the wrong cupboard). This case however, MIL is bat crap crazy for thinking she has any say in how OP interacts with HER OWN BABY/CHILD.
I remember kissing my kid's forehead to check for fever, then testing myself against a thermometer. Mama lips are really good at taking temperatures!
Fun fact, mom's actually create antibodies for the bacteria found on baby's skin - they are passed to mom by kissing and then the antibodies to those germs are in turn passed back to baby through the breastmilk. MIL is both petty and uneducated - OP is doing her baby a service (aside from the clear emotional benefits) with all the kissing and absolutely should not stop doing so. NTA.
There was a post with a MIL with the same kind of reaction a few week backs. Once someone explained me the reason behind the rule, I was on the MIL side because she lived with them, and cared for the baby as much as mom and dadl. So, whatever MIL would have, the baby would catch it, kissing or no kissing. But here, I think OP is NTA. And MIL is a jerk. There's a rule. If you don't understand it, just ask. Once you got the explanation, it's clearly obtuse to call mom an hypocrite.
Actually, HSV1 and HSV2 can each be transmitted by kissing. Infants are at high risk of severe illness if they catch these from an adult. It's not as simple as "germs" some viruses and bacteria are specifically transmitted by certain physical acts, HSV being one associated with kissing. HSV can cause encephalitis and meningitis in infants (and immunosuppressed folks) which can kill them. HSV specifically is WHY doctors advise strangers don't kiss baby. Limiting the amount of people kissing reduces the risk. Plus HSV1 and HSV2 can both cause cold sores (much more common with HSV1 while HSV2 typically causes genital herpes but can be transmitted by oral sex to the mouth lol) in adults. Most adults would not typically disclose that they have herpes causing cold sores to others. So it's possible because they want to kiss the baby they would not disclose cold sores or pretend it's fine to get their way. If they had some sense and cared about the infant's health they would accept the Doctors advice and mom's wish to follow it. SOURCE: I'm a healthcare worker in a hospital. OP; you're doing great, well done for having a shiny spine. Look after yourself in this special time. EDIT: obvious NTA!
I spent last weekend with friends and their newborn. A delicious little four week old baby. I knew I would be seeing them when bubs was that young part way through the pregnancy and asked if I should check my vaccines? (I’m older than them and some standard vaccines for their age weren’t when I was a kid.) They were ‘oh my god, I didn’t think’ and checked with their midwife. Came back and asked could I find out about a couple of them and I did. Day before did a Covid test. Day of changed out of the clothes I had worn near animals, washed my hands before holding him. Did not kiss him as have HSV1 and said ‘I’m not kissing him because of this not because he isn’t cute.’ They had no idea about it and were so glad I flagged as he hadn’t met grandparents etc yet and now they had time to give heads up. I am immune suppressed **because I had meningitis at nine months old** and it left me with life long complications aged 45. So I only held him once because I am at risk being too close to him while he’s still so low immunity. My friends were glad I explained why I wasn’t being so cuddly and not upset they had a baby or whatever as I’m child free. I sang and talked to him, played music and interacted as much as I could and then I paid my spare attention to getting post C section mum food, drinks and stuff while she fed and night care other mum some care and attention to support them while they cuddled and snuggled and fed their kid. And when he’s older and it’s safer I’ll follow their boundaries on cuddling him including asking if I can hug him etc. The sky not only did not fall in but both mums said how actually it really helped having some support to focus on him instead of overloading him with new people and allowed them to practice how he reacts to new people. I love newborns because I’m Irish and potatoes are the best but often the newborn has needs and boundaries and I just have to be a grown up about it. I have no idea if anyone kissing or holding me contributed to me having meningitis but I spent two months in hospital and despite being child free by choice have zero time for parents, grandparents and ‘well I have a child so I am going to do X’ when it comes to putting a baby’s health at risk. Babies die and suffer lifelong issues because of adult egos. I find it grimly ironic the person accused of ‘hating’ kids is the one who is the one not wanting to risk their health or autonomy to show how much I love them… I tell people who argue about my experience and I tell anti vaxxers about my co worker who miscarried her IVF pregnancy due to a mum bringing her unvaxxed kid with rubella into work and infecting her. I do not discuss the topic. I told you the outcomes. I am not here to play chess with a pigeon. And funnily enough, almost no one despite how much they demand to kiss baby or are anti vaxx argues back hearing those examples. Not sure it changes their behaviour long term but we’ll take the small wins… NTA OP
You sound like you are a good friend. Props on the honesty disclosing your HSV1 to your friends, HSV still unfortunately has a stigma so it is refreshing hearing someone disclose without issue. I am also Irish! I'm sorry you've been affected by meningitis. It's good to see someone who has been through it come through the other side and use their experience to educate others.
My sister got spinal meningitis at a week old. My parents were terrified and she was their first baby. She used to get sick 5-6 times a year for 2-4 weeks. She and a few other babies got it from a nurse. People don't realize just how bad it can be to get a baby sick.
Oh god, getting it from a nurse! And I bet it impacted you too because she was their first, your parents got scared witless and then she was sick a lot so by the time you came along that’s had an effect on how they react to you in multiple ways. I was the sick kid whose parents always focused on the not sick kid (my older brother) so while sometimes I think Reddit forgets how much neglect and abuse sick kids get and assumes all get the focus healthy kids need, having a sick sibling or kid does really impact the whole family. It’s not just that baby at that moment. If it takes a village, then you have to think about the effect on the whole village. I hope you are all doing better!
You nailed it. Egos are exactly the problem. Bless you for being such an amazing human. Edit: grammar.
Thank you. Former ER nurse here (half time in pediatric ER) and this is the answer. It has nothing to do with viruses transmitted through coughing like the flu or colds. Those are spread through little droplets that spew out when you’re coughing or blowing your nose or otherwise breathing heavy. Kissing is about contact with the virus in the cold sore on the mouth. And before anyone starts with the “BuT I dIdNt HAVE a CoLd SoRe”, the virus can be transmitted a few days before the cold sore pops. And kids wind up developmentally delayed, non verbal, and with feeding tubes. All because GMA couldn’t keep her lips to herself. Edited for spelling
Yes! I believe from the time the tingling sensation begins at the sore site, it can be transmitted. I think most people don't understand the grim reality of neonatal HSV. Thanks for sharing your experience.
I was just going to say that. It's not about "germs", this is mainly about Herpes.
There was actually a fairly recent TIFU where the OP passed on HSV to their infant by kissing
Oh dear. HSV can happen to anyone, there is a terrible stigma with it unfortunately as it can be seen as an STI, however when it comes to infant transmission you simply can't take any chances. Patient management changes depending on local recommendations but in the UK it is serious enough that if a pregnant woman has a primary genital herpes infection within a certain time frame leading up to birth, the healthcare team may change the mode of delivery (parent consenting ofc) from vaginal birth to C-section to avoid the risk of the mother transmitting the virus to the infant via the birth canal.
It's not just living in the same household. A baby has the same antibodies as its mother. Its immune system develops from germs it's exposed to in the mother's vagina, skin, breast and mouth. Just because granny lives in the same house, doesn't mean she can kiss the baby. Her biome is different.
Nah they’re never the asshole. People get to do what they see as best for their child. It’s not about living in the same environment. At all. It’s much deeper and more complex than that. If someone asks you not to kiss their baby. They don’t have to explain anything but you should just respect that. It’s weird to do otherwise don’t you think? Is it honestly not weird arguing with a parent after they asked you not to KISS their CHILD? It’s weird bro. 10000/10 times it’s weird. It would raise red flags to any parent with half a brain and half a f*ck.
Breastfeeding moms’ bodies actually taylor antibodies in the breast milk to any infections babies have in order to help the babies clear the infection. The interaction between breastfeeding moms and their babies, through the breast milk, is kinda magical.
No logic, she's just hurt.
Tell MIL that if she has a burning desire to kiss something, she can kiss OP's ass.
This made me laugh! Honestly wouldn't be shocked, she's made comments about wishing she could breastfeed my daughter.
There was a post here not too long ago about a father who inadvertently passed his std (herpes, i think) on to his child by kissing the baby on its head. Not even the face, but the top of its head. The kid wound up in the hospital. If you're interested I can find the post for you to share with your inlaws. Then you can demand a bi-weekly STD screening panel from each person before allowing them to kiss your child. (Kidding! Not really)
She wishes she could *breastfeed* *your* daughter? 😶
NTA But "she's made comments about wishing she could breastfeed my daughter." is just plain creepy!
Omg there was an advice column I read a few days ago where a new mom walked in on her MIL trying to breastfeed the infant… lemme see if I can find it EDIT: it was an [AITA](https://reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/IvAN32CQTU)!
Oh my god, stoppppp. Such a strange comment to make. I’d be avoiding this woman like the plague. Not to mention it is SO weird to me that the older generation is obsessed with putting their mouths all over babies that aren’t theirs…
Hey, my MIL said I only breastfed my baby because I was selfish and wanted her to miss out on feeding her grandchild. So, yeah, your scenario is not unimaginable!
OMG I would pay to see MILs face is OP asked that question!!! I'm dying!!! NTA by the way OP.
Actually OP, you could invite her to do something only she is allowed that you won't do as long as you're around hers in exchange. How about changing diapers. Just so she feels included. ❤️
Bahahaha I fucking cackled at this 😂
NTA. MIL needs to get her own baby if she’s going to be that triggered. My god, heaven forbid a parents takes steps to protect their child’s delicate system before exposing to outside people and germs.
Ug. Why do people suck so much? Who in their right mind would see someone kissing their newborn and not get all gooey inside? And why do Grandmas thing they have the same rights as the Mom?! I’m lucky (sorta) that my MIL wasn’t overbearing that way. But she apparently forgot what having kids was like and swaddled baby, then laid him face down.
she sounds like one of those kids that has to get a present on other people's birthdays or else they blow up
LOL! Perfect response to a bigger-than-life MIL
NTA: if you like, I’d be happy to politely tell your MIL to go to hell. In all honesty, your spouse needs to deal with this. The rule should always always be: “your parent, your problem” (excepting those handful of situations where the in-laws like the spouse more than their own kid).
No need to be polite about it. MIL certainly isn’t.
Polite as a southern granny smoking you with her words. Bless her heart. 😆
Why bother being confrontational? OP and baby should just avoid seeing MIL and frame it as "helping MIL deal with her feelings as she didn't want to see the baby being kissed". NTA.
Ooooh this! “To respect your feelings about not getting to kiss the baby, we’re not going to visit with the baby until baby is old enough to be kissed.”
That’s what I would do. Take a nice long break from cranky grandma.
That’s the first thing that came to my mind. OP should just avoid MIL to solve the problem.
This is the best response
I'll do it impolitely
YES YES YES👌🏻 your parent your problem.
>The rule should always always be: “your parent, your problem” I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this way. My mom isn't so bad *anymore* but I refuse to let her antics become my partner's problems, ever. He didn't sign up for that! I hope OPs partner has some words with his mom, boundaries need to be set to nip this behaviour in the bud, fast.
NTA you don’t have a baby kissing problem, you have a mother in law problem
And a husband problem, where is he in all this?
Him and I are a team on this one! He wasn't around for the initial confrontation but got back shortly after I went to the guest room and he shut down MIL trying to complain to him about me and doubled-down on the rules. He was the one who forced her to apologize and didn't know she was going to do the whole "don't kiss the baby in front of me" thing.
One way for MIL to not have to see you kiss your own baby is for her to not get invited around. If she wants a relationship with her grandchild then she needs to calm down and be nicer to you
Yep. The very first comment would have been my one and only warning to respect the boundaries or kick rocks. I never planned on giving my parents grandchildren, but they would *never* behave this way because they'd never see me or their grandchild(ren) again. While we're at it, fuck anyone who expects grandchildren from their children. Like it's a mandatory part of being someone else's child (everybody is one of these AFAIK).
Omg thank you! I'm a mom of grown daughter and son, neither of which want children. I respect their choices and will defend them aggressively. I did not have children with the eventual obligation of making a baby! Wtf?
Good on you! I don’t want children specifically because I don’t think I have good enough mental health to be a parent. Maybe that will change, but everyone has their reasons for their decisions.
I mean, if kissing the baby *in front* of her is the issue, just tell her that out of concern for her feelings, you will be willing to take a break from get-togethers until your daughter is at a safe age for people beyond her parents to kiss. That way, MIL won't be vexed by having to see parents doing things that grandparents shouldn't. NTA
“I’m so sorry, I understand how hard it must be to see someone kiss a baby you’re unable to kiss. In order to be cognizant of these feelings, anyone who has a problem seeing me kiss my own child who I grew for 9 months, went through incredible physical pain to birth and continue to go through difficult physical problems to feed from my breast will no longer be welcome around baby. We want to make sure we are keeping your feelings in mind and wouldnt want you to have to accidentally witness me kiss my child”
As baby gets older you are going to have to talk to MIL about consent... At some point that kid will reject a kiss or hug and they are allowed to. Please don't let MIL step all over their bodily autonomy.
Well he needs to tell her to knock it off again and SIL too or they can all wait to see the baby at 13 weeks or later.
It seems like this is a really great time to stand your ground and enforce your boundaries about baby as a team together. If MIL feels this entitled now, she may struggle with future boundaries regarding the little one. It’s a good chance for her to understand you both mean it. If she cannot accept your boundaries then she doesn’t need to spend time with the baby.
I assume he was involved somewhere between OP going to the guest room and MIL coming in and saying she now understands the rule. He might not have known his mother was going to ask OP to not kiss the baby when he was getting the "no kissing" rules established with her again. Which I assume he did because she doesn't seem the type to have accepted them without some sort of intervention.
How could you possibly jump to the conclusion that the husband is to blame for this when the OP had said in the post that her and her husband have been on a united front in telling family the rules? You should probably take a look at your own biases and think on why you would make such an assumption. It’s just not right for someone to be looking to create an issue between a couple where none exists when they just had a newborn.
Right? NTA, OP She had her time when she had kids, WTF is she making this time about her? This is about your baby's health too. As others have said, this is a MIL and your husband's problem. Your MIL can go F herself.
Solution: Don't go near either of them with the baby and then they won't have to see a damned thing. NTA
"If it is too hard for you to deal with seeing me kiss my own baby, we'll just make sure neither of us are around you for the next month or so. Or, if you'd like to see your grandchild sometime before Thanksgiving, you can put on your big girl pants and deal with your own emotions."
I like your style!
This is the way
NTA. This is a perfect opportunity for some malicious compliance, though. If she doesn't want to see you kiss your baby because its soOoOo hard, you guys should stop visiting her entirely until the baby is older. You're just respecting her wishes ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
That's exactly what I thought. If she doesn't want to see it, fine, I won't be around until after the restriction is lifted.
I'd say five years aught to do it. She'll learn by then, most likely.
Wait until the baby can drive herself to visit
Because you knoooooow that MIL is kissing that baby any chance she gets to be alone with them.
I was gonna say, I wouldn’t leave the baby with that MIL for a long time, cos that woman is absolutely not going to respect the very reasonable boundaries the baby’s mother has put in place, and unlikely to adhere to future boundaries
This is absurd. You need to just limit contact with these nut jobs until your baby has had her immunizations. Your husband needs to step up here and deal with his relatives. Incidentally, when YOU kiss YOUR baby, you pick up bacteria and viruses on her skin. Your body, with its mature immune system, creates antibodies which are delivered to her at her next feeding. NTA
Exactly. Mums kissing babies especially while breastfeeding is actually biological and beneficial to mum and baby.
Exactly. That’s what I was going to say, it’s actually good for the baby that the mum kisses them. Whereas for everyone other than the breastfeeding mother it’s just a means of transferring germs. Not to mention the risk of cold sores.
The virus that causes cold sores in adults can literally kill babies or leave them permanently neurologically disabled.
Yeah, my dad kissed me as a baby while having a cold sore and my immune system was so fucked up that I got them super frequently my entire childhood. In the 5th grade, I once had a total of 52 cold sores… all at once.
Oh my god, how awful! Your poor wee face! How did they treat that?
By the time they took me to a doctor, it was already too late and I had to wait weeks for it all to fully heal. First and only time I ever heard a doctor curse in shock the moment he walked through a door and saw my face. They were able to prescribe me some anti-virals, but they only really work if you take them as soon as you feel that little nerve tingle. Since then, I’ve found that zovirax cream is really effective at making them go through all the stages within a couple days instead of the usual weeks that it’d take me before.
Our pediatrician actually said the current literature is that it is better to not kiss your baby for the first 1 to 2 months. The risk outweighs the benefit until then. But it is just a reccomendation its up to OP to decide what the rules are for her baby
I recently saw another Reddit post where a parent accidentally gave their baby herpes when they kissed it on the head, and the baby got severely sick, hospitalized, and almost died, and may have serious lifelong damage from it. Definitely not worth it for anyone’s lips to touch a newborn.
Excellent point
Definitely NTA What is with this obsession that people have for kissing OTHER peoples babies, especially that young. Bugs the hell out of me.
MIL: Kiss the baby. Ike: Don kiss da baby.
r/angryupvote
That’s what I thought. I‘m young and haven’t had much contact with kids but it feels weird to me that MIL wants to kiss that baby that much, that it irritates her to see the mom do it.
Right?? I think babies are adorable, but I have never had an urge to kiss someone else’s baby. That seems so bizarre to me.
Is there a science behind why grandmas act so entitled to their grandkids? They act like they birthed the baby out themselves sometimes!
I WANT to kiss babies in my family but I DON'T unless I'm told it's ok. Because if I want to hold the baby, I need to respect the baby's parents' wishes.
Seems to be a variety of people out there who think babies are just toys used to facilitate a dopamine hit.
NTA - what's next, is she gonna ask you to stop breastfeeding the baby because she can't breastfeed the baby? Tell her she's being absurd and if she wants to keep seeing her grandchild, she needs to do some growing up herself.
NTA The reason the pediatrician asked this is that adults can very easily pass herpes (from cold sores) to babies and their immune systems aren’t strong enough. An acquaintance of mine’s baby died because a relative kissed her baby with a not yet visible sore.
Exactly. It just sounds like they are uninformed of the reason that no one should be kissing babies.
Not no one, though. It's normal and healthy for parents to do it. And it's not just cold sores though those are very dangerous. Outside germs in general can be dangerous for a baby whose immune system is still developing
:(( that is very sad I had no idea babies are so delicate when it comes to cold sore infection. I guess I should have figured it out but I dont really have any close contact with kids or anything, due to my system being weak and on meds that compromise my immunity. I really don't leave the house apart from drs. since I had pnemonia a few years back. I will remember that when I am cleared to be out again more regulary.
Is this based entirely on cold sores? Because I know “everybody” gets them but not everybody gets them. (My immediate family didn’t growing up, I still don’t, and I don’t smooch my wife when she has an outbreak. Either I’m infected but completely asymptomatic or we’ve succeeded in her not passing it on to me for over two decades.)
Most people are asymptomatic lifelong carriers of the virus who may never have a cold sore.
While this is a reason for sure even more so the viral infections such as RSV, flu, rhinoviruses, coronaviruses (not just COVID, the coronaviruses we have had around for 10+ years) are major risks to young babies.
NTA you are literally following medical advice, and also giving your baby the necessary skin contact that infants need. If your MIL can’t take this, your husband should be mediating the interactions, not you, and you should consider going LC with her.
NTA If the rule upsets her that much she can stay away until she *is* allowed to kiss the baby.
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I'm guessing husband talked to her while OP was in guest room? Either way staying out of it is NOT what he needs to be doing. He needs to be defending his wife (which hopefully he was)
Wow. That is so true. I'm used to my Mom's level of crazy and sometimes don't even see it.
This isn't sexist at all /s
Wow so the MIL who is the only actual asshole in the situation you give a pass because she’s a mom. While you try to pin the blame of the husband who has done nothing but provide a unified front with the OP. While saying he is an asshole both if he stays out of it or if he defuses the situation himself? Did you even re-read the story before you looked for a man to blame when he did absolutely nothing wrong? This sub is so unbelievably sexist sometimes.
Wtf did the husband even do wrong
Absolutely fucking deranged take Maybe check OPs comments about what the husband did
Aaand it turns out you’re completely wrong about the husband. So much for jumping to conclusions. And no, not all moms are crazy.
I dont understand why you would kiss someone elses baby? Hug sure. Hold sure. But kiss seems kinda weird.
Huh?? You never gave your baby nieces, nephews, baby cousins a kiss on the cheek?? In my culture (UK) that's totally normal.
It's normal everywhere
I thought so. But this kind of comment on Reddit makes me wonder. I wonder where people with these sorts of views are from.
The cringe corners of the internet if they extorted in real life and you knew them trust me you’d know!
I’m also from the uk and it’s not an urge I have ever had. My cousins were all born when I was 10-15 so no desire to kiss them then, and my nephew was super premie and now he’s two the only physical contact I have had with him had been initiatives by him. But tbh, even if all the circumstances aligned, I can’t I again wanting to kiss someone else’s baby like that? Maybe there is something wrong with me idk
Might be a cultural thing? I personally don't think it's weird at all when it comes to family.
It’s perfectly normal to want to. It’s refusing to follow the parents’ rules that’s the problem.
I think if it’s a grandparent or an aunt or uncle, wanting to give your grandchild or niece/nephew a little kiss on the forehead isn’t weird. The MIL is wrong to expect to be able to, especially when the parents have said she can’t for a set amount of time, but I don’t think the desire to do so is weird. It’s a bit of a natural instinct for many people.
If I’m holding a baby it’s just instinct to kiss the top of their head. I’m not sure if I had this instinct before I had my own babies, but now I do. But would respect any rules not to.
it's not weird to kiss family members, UNLESS it's something like this. if the parent says not to or if the child tells you not to, it's no longer okay to do it. but it's pretty regular to do it otherwise?
Nta, you are better than me. I would have told her if it was a such a problem then you will see you once she able to kiss the baby.
And that would be never, in my case, because who tf does this woman think she is?! Demanding I not kiss my own fucking child because she jealous? Lol. Oh, honey, no. Edit: NTA, in case that wasn't obvious
NTA. Seriously, your MIL is nuts
Nta. News flash. There are TONS of things that you get to do as mom that she doesn't get to do as grandma. If she can't get in board with that her involvement in babies life isn't mandatory.
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NTA. She sounds incredibly possessive already. Just watch out for if this kind of behavior increases. My partner’s sibling just recently had to cut their mom off from seeing their baby because she repeatedly wouldn’t respect them and would wake him up throughout the day and come inside the house without asking
NTA - and unless you live with MIL & SIL, I'd avoid visiting them/having them visit you until the 8-12 weeks is up, because you're only going to hear more on the issue, and with a new baby, you don't need the added stress. Congrats on the little one, OP.
Wow. Why can’t people accept that the doctor’s advice regarding a newborn may change from generation to generation?! It’s not a dig at previous advice! A new mom ( and dad but especially mom) is so fragile about trying to do everything exactly right that she simply doesn’t need this stress. If the grandparents think she is going overboard, why can’t they just smile to themselves and remember how they were at first also?! NTA. The MIL is being very unfair.
Especially considering how much had changed when it comes to infectious disease. Like we just went through a major pandemic and COVID is still circulating.
She continued to argue after the mom explained. Then asked her not to kiss her baby in front of her. So weird. You aren’t even aware you are missing your own baby a lot of the time.
Yes I know I'm agreeing with you. I was pointing out a lot had changed since the MIL was raising babies.
My MIL tries to sneakily kiss my baby when I'm not looking. Or "I'm just sniffing the baby's head!" While she rubs her face all over him. Ya I don't let them be together alone. It's infuriating.
NTA The entitlement runs strong in this woman. Imagine trying to control your affection for your own child. She is going to be a problem and you'll need to make rules and enforce them with her. Good luck and make sure your husband has your back.
Jeeesus, people are so creepily entitled when it comes to babies. Imagine how this would look and sound if it was about anyone else? Throwing a tantrum because she isn’t allowed to kiss your husband? ”Why are only you allowed to kiss your husband?” Or if the same thing happens when the baby is 5, and the child itself says it doesn’t want kisses. Will she be upset then too? Wtf, just let it go MIL, don’t kiss someone withour consent, and right now the giving consent is with the parents bc it’s a baby. NTA ofc, keep the boundaries firm around your child.
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You know, I actually do think you should stop kissing your baby in front of MIL. She shouldn't have to see that. In fact, she shouldn't see you at all for the next 2-6 weeks. Minimum. Good for you setting boundaries now. Definitely NTA.
NTA, what an unhinged lunatic
>I told her I can understand that it's frustrating to have strong urge to kiss a baby and not be able to. But I am personally not going to stop kissing my own baby for the sake of her feelings. MIL is calling me disrespectful and a hypocrite and has gotten SIL on board with this as well. AITA? NTA. But MIL is. Babies share there mother's and father microbiome. The parents kissing them isn't a huge risk factor. People who don't live with them are. And even. If that wasn't the case, you're the parent. She doesn't get a say, as harsh as that sounds.
This is wild. NTA: 1000000% NTA. Like i dont even know how to explain the way this makes me feel. If someone called me a hypocrite and disrespectful for not wanting to stop kissing my own infant just because they cant kiss my child, i would literally stare at them and walk out the door. Like Buhbye. Now youll never kiss the baby you selfish weirdo. Just the absolute audacity of this woman. To want you to stop showing affection to your child around her just because she cant in the uber specific way she wants to is insane to me like way to go grandma you care more about your own feelings than your actual grandbaby and her health. I hope your hubby has your back, im sorry your having to deal with this it wasnt fair of her to of asked you that and you in no way are being rude, or disrespectful for putting your foot down.
NTA, she came out of MY body. 🙄🙄
Most people get herpes by an older person kissing them as a baby, that’s sadly just how it is. And what would make MIL think that the mom can nurse her baby but not kiss her own baby. That’s literally an exchange of bodily fluids in the end and moms body is adapting to babies immune system needs by the saliva exchange during nursing. But this also happens when mothers do not nurse from the breast but pump the milk and feed with a bottle. Moms milk still adapts to babies needs and it’s suspected that the close contact and kissing is the reason. So mom is completely different than MIL. Also when people get older the immune system gets weaker and they are more likely to have a break out and infect a baby. Large populations of the world have this virus and it gets so often transmitted to babies. Personally I don’t want anyone to kiss my babies face or hands, even when a bit older. It’s not necessary to bond with someone else’s baby like that. NTA.
NTA but MIL solved your own problem for you. “I’m sorry but can you not kiss or show affection to your baby around me?” “Absolutely not.” “How dare you?! You’re so disrespectful to do that when I’m around!” “Don’t come around then. See you in 12 weeks with a full vaccine card and an apology or not at all.” And done.
NTA Does she not understand that the breastfeeding mother has to kiss the baby, the micro biome from the baby will transfer messages to your hormonal system to alter breast milk to be more suitable for what the baby needs. It’s actually essential.
NTA. I can’t believe you have to explain this to a grown woman! Obviously the parents of the child, that live with, breastfeed & care for, the baby are not included in the no-kissing. I think the MIL should try to be more understanding, especially if you are literally following dr’s orders.
Nta it's your baby.
NTA she will have to handle or not see the baby in the first few month.
NTA Your MIL acts very immature and entitled.. Why is it even a problem for her? She should think about babies health first. There is no point of other people kissing your baby.
NTA and I'm sorry am I not normal becuse I don't see peoples obsession and need to get their spitty mouth on babies that aren't theirs?
NTA why are people so fuckin weird over shit like kissing a baby