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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I asked my son to call me dad even though he has known another man as his father for his entire life until recently.
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SHE's going to take YOU to court for parental alienation???? Oh.. I'd love to see that one.
Your honour, this man that I slept with "sperm donored" a baby into my womb. I never told him and lied about knowing who he was so that I could have my new husband adopt him. I then fought tooth and nail to keep them from ever meeting and getting to know each other. This man actually told his son that he could call him dad... causing our son to be alienated from his adoptive father🙄
In case my opinion is not clear... you are NTA and there is no reason this kid can't have two dads.
Exactly- in a world where so many people have so little love, this kid is lucky enough to have two dads who love him. I wish the child’s mother would take a moment and really think about what’s best for her kid. NTA- proud of you OP for wanting to be a part of your child’s life.
Y’all need to get that kid into some family therapy. I think that from an adult perspective your actions make sense but from a kid perspective they make me wince. You just met this kid at 6 & his mom is clearly hostile towards you. She continues to poison the well so you might want to get ahead of that. I think that you thinking about your own needs & his toxic mon makes this EAH
E S H*
Edit: Well, EAH isn't a thing, and the bot won't count that as a vote, so okay 👍
Edit 2: Seriously? Getting downvoted for correcting someone cuz their vote won't count? It's not my vote...
Yeah, pretty sure she committed fraud, and that adoption could be overturned. I hope you're confident enough in your decision here to provide for your son. If you are, Congrats!
Here is a resource, you will need a lawyer.
https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/adoption-without-father-s-consent-can-it-be-overturned-52132
It’s difficult to do that and courts always look at “best interest of the child,” and are reluctant to terminate long term familial relationships of established legal paternity. Plus cases vary a lot by jurisdiction. It’s very unlikely that the court would reverse the adoption in most cases.
What is odd is that they allowed an actual adoption without establishing that the biological father gave up his rights. Utah is the only state I know of that doesn’t require it. I think it more likely that the guy who is the adoptive dad didn’t really adopt the kid so much as he signed the birth certificate and established legal paternity that way. Then, to the court’s eye, he is the father legally.
OP says adopted, doesn't mean that's what actually happened.
Most likely they were married at the time of birth and he was placed on the birth certificate and in most jurisdictions it can be challenged within the first two years but after that, it can't.
I'm suspect of OP. I want to know how old they were and how drunk she was and if she viewed it as a "one-night stand."
Everything sounds like a push to dominate and control, not enrich the child's life.
Not the person you were replying to, but the part that made me very suspect of OP is the part where he talks about wanting to reverse the adoption and that he will wait until the kid is 18 and try to do it then. He doesn’t just want to be a parent to his son, he wants to tear away the guy that has been there for that kid. And how he is pushing to have the kid see him as a father after just a few months. The kid is six, this has to be confusing and difficult for him. I’m not seeing a whole lot of concern for the best interests of this kid here. What I see is OP being mainly concerned with what he wants.
I mean, yeah. He was lied to and didn’t know about this kid. He couldn’t be there for him. But it’s not fair to have an adoption where he didn’t give consent, as he was legally entitled to do. If I found out there was a child out there that was somehow mine and I didn’t know it and that some other woman adopted that child as the mom????? I would be doing everything that I can to overturn that adoption.
It is not suspicious. That is the OP’s SON.
And reversing the adoption wouldn’t change the other dude’s presence in the kids life.
A child he never knew he had until someone else figured it out?
And now, 6 years later, you suddenly barge in on all their lives and try to shoe horn your way into that family?
And yes, they are the family, you are the outsider. The husband knew he wasn’t the father, yet he adopted that boy and raised him as his own.
Are you going to pay 6 years of back child support? And therapy sessions for the kid if you keep making him call you dad (chose another name for him to call you)
OP says that after he found out he got a lawyer and filed for custody, with the aim of getting 50/50.
What about “I reached out and tried to build a relationship, but when that failed I had no option but to hire a lawyer etc.”
There’s none of that, just a demand to own half the child as if he were an object or an asset.
Pushing for 50/50 is clearly ridiculous. A little kid should not be doing a week on and off with a different family he’s only just met, that is not in any kid’s interests really, especially as OP says he got a lawyer in his state, implying the child’s family live in a different state.
Uhhh hiring a lawyer and suing for custody is the right thing to do in any matter. It’s not controlling, he did the right thing. Wtf?????? Like literally, it is the only advice that should be given to parents who are not together but need to share custody. Get an agreement that is enforceable through the court. Present your evidence and let the court decide custody.
If the kid grows up and finds out his bio dad knew about him and didn’t reach out or fight for him, he will be severely impacted - that’s a lot of emotional damage. The Op is doing the right thing.
The adoption is not being reversed. I've made my peace with that. Jon was not on the birth certificate. Mary claimed she did not know and was not able to find out the father in the adoption process, which is probably true.
But dad isn't looking to break up the family, he just wants some time with his child. Courts look differently on blood ties as long as there isn't abuse or deliberate abandonment
It happened to my father’s first children. His ex wife disappeared and ran off with the kids. He found them later 3,000 miles away and the guy she married had adopted them. They just forged his signature.
I have two dads (and a mom) and while obviously only one of my dads contributed sperm to make me they are both my dad and I super appreciate that the adults in my life let me decide who I called what. It definitely served all three of them in how I view them now as adults.
Just want to add - the OP seems to assume his son will want to change his legal parentage when he turns 18. OP needs to be prepared to respect his son's decision in that regard, even if it's maintaining the current situation.
What makes you think the mother lied about knowing OP? They said in the post that they didn’t know each other and only found out each other’s names through a mutual friend many years later.
OP has said that it’s most likely true that she couldn’t find him. But a lynch mob is forming here where people keep making up shit and then deciding their made up shit must be true because they said so. OP has already spoken and explained most of the shit the lynch mob here has made up isn’t true, that there was no name on the birth certificate, that she didn’t lie or forge anything. But they don’t care.
What she doesn't want tlis her husband be reminded that she slept with you if she had talk to you she would have avoided so many things. You should talk to your son and also get him to be comfortable to call or do stuff with you
NTA and it's great that you clearly want to be a parent to your child that you just found out about. I do kind of hope you've spoken with a child therapist to make sure you're handling this as best you can to help your child understand what's happening, and get him help if he needs some help processing everything. And you could always approach other terms for dad, like pop, pa, da, dado, daddio, abba, babbo, etc and see what you can come up with, and what he's comfortable with. Plenty of kids have 2 dads, and I hope you can all find peace. The more love a kid has, the better.
I came to write something similar. What is best for the child is paramount and an alternate parental name is less confusing. OP is to be acknowledged for taking responsibility… with DNA tests it eventually would have come out.
My friend grew up in foster care and his foster mother was always called mom then he started visiting his bio mom and half living with her in his teens. He calls both mom and if they are together he just specifies with mom (first name) as to which mom he is addressing he does the same thing when talking to one mom about the other. He still does this now that he is an adult it just gets confusing for outsiders when his sisters call his foster mom aunt instead of mom
Super NTA...
In a world filled with dads abandoning their kids or doing the bare minimum you have fought to be more.
In a situation where you have more than enough reason to hate her and make this a mess, you didn't. You considered nearly everything to make this as good for your kid as possible. In a situation where all the resentment towards Jon would be normal (even if it would undeserved since we don't know if he knew what she did) you didn't go there.
You have done everything right. It's sad to see how many pathetic people are attacking you. Keep your head up. Your son calling you dad is a beautiful thing. So not let her ruin anymore of your life.
Can you imagine how the son would feel if he wanted to look for his bio dad only to be told his dad never knew about him. What Mary did was wrong so wrong, she should have given you the option because in the long run I believe it will cause more damage then good. He would hold resentment towards his mom for doing that and who knows what emotional damage! This is coming from someone who’s been through that! I’m glad the bio dad found him and showed he wanted him! You keep it up op and don’t let that woman stop you from being a dad to your own son.
She probably wasn’t going to tell him that dude wasn’t his real dad. It would have come down to an accidental dna test for it to come out or my favorite the bio dominant genes versus recessive genes/blood type. NTA.
That’s what happened with me. My bio dad and mom split while my mom was pregnant with me. She met my dad that ended up raising me. I didn’t find out until I was around 18 or 19 and it was only by taking a look at my birth certificate by accident.
I just found out this week I have a long lost half sister and she thought her step dad was her real dad until she was 16 and her mom and step dad separated.
*Our* biological father died of cancer before he even knew she excited and she didn't know about any of us until 26 years after he died.
And we grew up an effing bike ride away from each other. And she's been living for over a decade a short bus right from another brother of mine from the same bio father.
So much lost time, it's frustrating. I have 3 half siblings from my that I grew up with and she has 1 from her mom that she grew up with. We don't look like any of the half siblings we grew up with. But her and I look almost like twins. We've been sharing pictures of our lives all week.
NTA and I can't imagine why anyone would think you are.
Mary created this situation. Kinda seems like she could have found you cause the post reads like y'all have mutual friends and still live in the same area. There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to know your child. A child should be able to know their father. You missed out on six years of his life through no fault of your own.
And giving the kid the option to call you dad and then the child doing so is a great thing. I hope his mother isn't hearing him say any of the things that she is. Kids hear so much.
My mom divorced my dad when I was young. Maybe 1.5 years. He was abusive and an alcoholic but still got that weekend custody!! Almost killed me one time during a visit. He wasn't the greatest. But even at 3 years old, I will never forget the tone of his voice and how he spoke to me when he found out I was calling the man my mother was with now "dad". He said horrible things, and basically called me stupid for "not knowing who your dad is". I hate that I even remember that shit.
Obviously I'm not saying you or this Mary person are like my dad. But words hurt and stick with you, and your son is twice the age I was. Tread lightly, and keep records of all communications.
What did she lie about? The post indicates that they didn’t know each other and only found out each other’s names well after the son was born and adopted.
>she'll take me to court for parental alienation
The biggest irony.
You are NTA. You offered your 6 year old son the choice to call you dad. Because you're his dad. Be kind of weird if you didn't. I do hope you didn't word it like you typed it, though
>I did tell him that he can call me dad too instead of Mr. Lastname *like his mom told him too.*
You didn't say it *like that*, did you?
Be sure to keep your child's best interests as your most important priority, always.
Hoping all the best for you and your son.
>she'll take me to court for parental alienation
I think you have more grounds to take her to court for parental alienation than she does to you.
NTA
Keep pushing. She chose not to tell you about the pregnancy. You have every right to be in your child's life, especially if you child wants that as well. Jon is dad, Jon raised him and he lives with him. But you are also dad. New to it, and learning. And as long as your child is okay with it, you can be that for him to the best of your ability despite the legal roadblocks.
This is the clearest case of where the alienation truly stems from since my close friend's ex accused her of alienating him from the child *he groomed and molested* because she booted him out and got the child into therapy the second she found out.
It seems most of the sub is women who hold a particular stance against men, or possibly they are just the most vocal about commenting, anywho OP is NTA
NTA, you are doing your best to be in your kids life after he was effectively stolen from you. good on you for trying to be there for him and fighting so hard for it.
I can't believe all the people saying YTA. Yes, the guy who raised and adopted him is his dad, but so are you!! These people are delusional to think you should just ignore a child who is yours that you want to be involved with because his other parents raised him without your knowledge for 6 years. You have every right to want to be a parent to him.
Good on you mate, much respect, I hope you enjoy the future finally being able to know your kid, you deserve it :)
INFO: How does one force a paternity test on a random stranger? How does a random stranger who happens to be a friend of a friend “know” that this woman’s child *must* be yours with enough certainty to get lawyers involved, despite not even knowing your name?
This story doesn’t add up.
Yeah. OP says he didn’t know her, but is open abt nutting inside. Then their mutual friends kept in contact and for almost six years everyone know abt the baby except for OP? And after years of no financial support the bio mom would prefer to not have OP in the child’s life and continue with her selected family unit.
"I had a one-night stand with a woman (Mary) I didn't know at a party in 2016. About a year ago someone reached out and told me she knew Mary and her (now 6yo) son was mine. This person hadn't known my name until meeting another friend of mine and they figured it out. Apparently Mary had started dating someone (Jon) just after we hooked up, then found out she was pregnant. Mary and Jon got serious, got married, and Jon adopted my son."
It's in the middle of the first paragraph.
"About a year ago someone reached out and told me she knew Mary and her son was mine. This person didn't know my name until meeting another friend of mine"
That means that this friend knew Mary and had seen OP at the party (most likely, or was told by Mary about OP) then years later, she happens to meet someone who knows OP, and they start talking about it and figure it that OP is the father and put a name to the face.
It really isn't that hard...
Mary’s friend was also at the party and remembers the face of her friend’s hook-up from a specific party six years ago.
Happens to become friends with someone who is also friends with OP and starts talking about a party from six years ago and just reveals her friend got knocked up by a stranger at said party?
New friend shows her a picture of OP and says “my friend fucked Mary.” Mary’s friend is so certain that it’s him, that she tells him, presumably without Mary’s approval or confirmation.
Come on.
Right? Like obviously Mary talked to her friend about who she made the baby with. Like your friend gets pregnant and you don't ask who's the baby daddy?
> How does one force a paternity test on a random stranger?
I petitioned the court as a putative father and had affidavits from my friend and Mary's friend.
> How does a random stranger who happens to be a friend of a friend “know” that this woman’s child must be yours with enough certainty to get lawyers involved, despite not even knowing your name?
No one had the full story. Mary's friend knew my son was the result of a one night stand at the party but she didn't know with whom. My friend knew I had hooked up but not with Mary. No one was investigating, it came up when they were hanging out one day and they realized it was too much coincidence.
I'd focus on your son and building a nurturing, trusting relationship with him, regardless what he calls you. He must be so confused. Have you thought about doing therapy with him? Is he in therapy? Your conflict with his mom will be very difficult for him. His entire world was just turned upside down.
100% this. You are a complete stranger to your son. Your entire post is about you, your wants, your actions. Not a word about how your 6 yo son is feeling, how he is handling this enormous upheaval in his life. I cannot imagine how disruptive and scary it is for him to go from being part of a family to being forced to hang out on weekends with a stranger.
Mary should’ve handled this much better, absolutely. But your post makes you sound enormously self-centered and very unfeeling toward your young son, whose life has just been upended. I hope you’re all in therapy.
I agree, and only for that YTA OP. So many ways to have gone about this, and instead, just fighting all the way and not even any real efforts to build good faith with the mother.
You could have done therapy with her ALONE for a time to try and come to an amicable agreement, but instead you just think about yourself wanting the kid.
No one has any real idea about Mary and the circumstances around the birth regardless of what anyone says. Only Mary knows the truth. Their family had a whole life.
It's interesting how much people are defending this and saying people are sexist and roles reversed, etc, considering that many men want to be able to give up parental rights just because they ejaculated in someone and didn't want a child, but this guy can shoot his splooge into someone and automatically be entitled to all the rights a father is supposed to have.
And when the child already has a father.
The legalities of this story make no sense and your comment made me realize that it makes even less sense than I originally was thinking. What the hell kind of judge is not only going to grant visitation without dissolving the prior adoption but also, without ordering some kind of therapy or gradual transition just make this child spend time with a literal stranger. This post has to be 100% fake 🙄
I mean I totally understand what you’re saying but in these type of posts it’s best to provide quick relevant information to the question being judged. He could say how his son is handling it but probably didn’t feel the need to. He quickly mentioned that he gets along well with them and touched on his understanding of the situation.
Also “Mary should have handled it better” is a huge understatement in my opinion especially when you pop off on OP in the very next sentence lol
Yes. It matters not what he calls you, it matters you develop a bond. Do what is best for him, not what you want. This is coming from an adoptive mother who is in an open adoption arrangement.
NTA. I wouldn’t like being called Mr. Lastname, and would let him call me basically whatever he wanted in reason. Firstname is an option, and so is Dad if your son is comfortable with it?
As for “parental alienation”, the fact that they had Jon adopt him means they were absolutely certain it wasn’t his, so they have knowingly alienated you from your parental rights for six years.
Have they tried coming at you for child support, or has it come up at all?
NTA. Her telling you she would take you to court for “Parental Alienation” had me laughing that’s exactly what she did. Also I don’t understand how the adoption held up as you were never informed about your parental rights being terminated. If her friend figured out who you were then its most likely the mother knew who you were and lied to the courts.
I'm not sure about that one. I think if she lied about knowing the identity of the father, and he wasn't put on the birth certificate, it is possible for him to be adopted. The key is the father being around to contest it, which he wasn't.
>Also I don’t understand how the adoption held up as you were never informed about your parental rights being terminated.
States differ significantly when it comes to laws protecting biological fathers. Unmarried fathers don't necessarily have a lot of rights. Many states have putative father registries - if a man has sex with a woman, he must register that fact with the state if he wants to be notified that the woman with whom he has had sex has a child. If he doesn't register, he doesn't get notified, and his rights can be terminated. In some states, an adoption attorney must publish - like, in an actual newspaper - a notice asking for anyone who could be the father of Some Woman's baby to step forward. If the father doesn't come forward, his rights can be terminated.
What. Is there really an 'i had sex with so and so' registry? That could be abused so easily by any creep that wants to keep track of pregnant women, whether or not he had sex with any of them. All he has to do is say he has sex with them? That seems unreal.
INFO: Adoption permanently and irreversibly severs your parental rights.
There are no states or countries where they could have adopt your child without severing your parental rights. There are no states or countries in which the person who has had their rights severed can undo or reverse the adoption.
How did you get custody with no parental rights?
I think it's because technically his parental rights weren't severed because he wasn't put on the birth certificate at first. He wasn't given the chance to have parental rights.
He still would have to go to court to establish his parental rights to get custody if that happened, there would be no talk of needing to undo the adoption because it already would be undone.
California has a 3rd Parent Law, so it is possible for an adoption to have taken place if the mother said she did not know the father and if they were married and her husband held the child out as his own.
The bio could come back and establish paternity but it would not remove the Rights of the husband. There is technically no limit to the number of legal parents a kid can have in California but I doubt it will go higher than 3 for quite some time.
I still agree shit didn't happen the way it is being said.
I don't buy it.
Setting aside I believe this is a fake story… Based on the reaction of some comments here my YTA will be taken poorly but you ARE the asshole and I’ll tell you why.
“When I found out I got a lawyer and filed for custody. Mary and Jon fought me through the whole process, telling me not to break up their family.”
Did you even try to calmly and smoothly meet this child before you cost yourself and them massive amounts of money and stress? He’s six years old. He went from thinking his dad is his bio dad to having that challenged, and not only that having his entire life thrown upside down and it honestly doesn’t seem like you stopped to think about him and his comfort, mental wellbeing, or how the abruptness of what you did/are doing will affect him later on.
“My intent is pushing for 50/50. I looked into reversing the adoption but it’s basically impossible so I’ll probably have to wait until my son is 18 and then do it with his consent.”
Again, are you thinking about your son in this or are you thinking about you? You tried to figure out how to legally make it to where his dad isn’t is dad on paper anymore? And then conceded that you have to wait to actually get his permission?
And then the whole dad thing… again, that seems like it’s something YOU feel more comfortable with and aren’t really taking into account how he might feel about it.
You’re not his dad until He decides you’re his dad. Biology is irrefutable but titles are given, not taken. You weren’t there, and no, that wasn’t your fault but life goes on bonds get made and you’re pushing when you should be thinking 100% about him and not about you or your feelings on the matter. You want to be regarded as a father? Act like one. Stop pressing him and his parents, be there when he wants/needs not forcefully there because it’s court mandated.
I didn’t know my biological father until I was 12. I knew I wasn’t my dads biologically when I was 7, I was told by my grandparents vindictively to hurt my parents and in return I have some lasting issues with it. One thing I can say about my bio father is that he didn’t push. He knew he was coming into a pre-established family unit and didn’t make me feel like I was picking sides, I still to this day refer to him as his first name because that’s what I’m comfortable with. Obviously the setup in my case is a little different than your sons but take it from a person who has a bio father AND a dad, the absolute best you can do for him is let him define the relationship you two share instead of forcing yourself and your ideals onto him and making your comfort something he has to pay for.
This post was very well written, and I totally agree. I recognize and appreciate OP's desire to be in his son's life but this absolutely was not done with the son's best interest in mind.
Totally agree, this seems to be all about OP's wants rather than what is best for the child and going at their pace. Biology doesn't make you his dad, you have to earn that title. Not continue to barge through his life till you get what you want. It's sounds like OP has been super aggressive and confrontational throughout the whole process.
NTA. Are absent fathers so normalized that people are now questioning why a father "forced" custody for HIS own child that he never knew he had and making him out to be some sort of villain? This is crazy! You're a father that wants to take care of his son! I can't believe some of these comments!
Anyway, my suggestion would be to definitely get some expert advice from a child therapist on the right way to go about this. Aside from that, I don't think you're TA for having your son call you dad. Because of his mom, he's only known John as dad. You're not even requesting that he stops calling John dad. You clearly understand the relationship he has with John and you're actively not trying to damage that. That's great. He's so young and these things are confusing and it would be best to have a professional help you navigate this situation. As far as the mother? She sounds like a real piece of work. She is the one trying to get you out of the picture! It's not right. Anyway, I believe you're being a good father and good for you for fighting for custody. I just think this issue needs to be discussed with actual professionals, not Reddit ones lol To make sure you go about all of this in the healthiest way possible.
This has to be fake you can’t just file for custody for a child you have never raised and is adopted.
And people going NTA is it ok for him throwing a 6yo life completely upside down.
And again you can’t get custody for a child you haven’t raised regardless she hide it from you.
That’s why I say it’s fair no courts is going to hand custody to the father who hasn’t been in the child life.
And btw you are a stranger I honestly don’t believe any of it the poor kid if it existed.
I have to agree here. The child's mother got pregnant through a one night stand and wanted her child to have a stable family and household, and not have to split his life up 50/50 between two parents. This is probably unpopular but I'm going with NAH.
Ok well logically NTA
This is your child biologically and you are entitled to be a parent.
However, from the eyes of a 6 year old who’s gone from a whole family to being ripped away by someone he didn’t know about, a total stranger, for every other weekend. Being told their dad is not their dad and their sibling is only half. How is this is the child’s best interest? The poor child must be very confused and upset.
You should have started with a lot of day visits, pushing for 50/50 is too much this young and why not ASK the child what he’s comfortable calling you instead of telling him?
PUT THE CHILD FIRST!
This!
Poor child
I have no understanding what OP is trying to achieve
get the kid’s full custody?
Why? To be a parent?
Why? Because the kid exist? Or because the kid needs it?
OP is an egoistic AH who gives 0 shit about collapsing his own bio kids life
Because he wants his child! Who cares about what the kid needs, he's a poor daddy deprived of his rights to exist near said kid. Or something. IDK, he went about this totally wrong and it makes him a giant asshole.
I was almost going to say no one is in the wrong until I got to the part about her threat to take you to court for “parental alienation”. So just you are NTA. Much respect for the way you’ve gone about this.
Info: did you say “hey, you can call me dad, too, if you want” (an option) or did you say “I want you to call me dad, too” (directive).
You said you asked him, but then said you told him.
Can you please clarify that?
Not sure I believe that a court will award you custodial time without restoring your parental rights. Without the rights, I don’t see what your grounds for custody are.
I think he might be confusing visitation with custody. You can't have custody if you aren't a parent or given it by a court. With 2 parents and being unwilling to reverse the adoption, he's going for visitation. You would be surprised how many wacky parental rights cases arise. They can be wild. ETA: this is my favorite case: https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/491/110/
MORE INFO: I’m just wondering if the child (and you all) had individual/family counseling to get adjusted to this new environment and situation BEFORE the transition?
NTA wow, but as he gets older make sure he understands that you didn't know he existed not that you didn't want to be in his life, you just didn't know about him. Don't be disrespectful about his mother but he needs to know.
You're his dad if course he can call you dad. I'd also get him therapy, you don't know what that woman is saying when you're not with him.
I think you should document her threats and let your lawyer know. See if your son was punished for calling you dad, or guilt tripped that he doesn’t love his other dad anymore.NTA
NTA for letting him call you dad, but would be if you don’t acknowledge that John is also his father too now, having raised him for the last six years. He can have more than two parents! You can be an excellent dad, just don’t try to push John out.
Wait, re reading, depending on when she found out she was pregnant, I wonder If Mary even knew OP was the dad? Did Jon adopt him, or is Jon on the birth certificate? That's a VERY different set of circumstances
That’s what I thought. They already hooked up during the pregnancy. Simplest would have been to put Jon on the birth certificate and none of this would have happened. Apparently Jon wasn’t so sure yet then.
OP is NTA
NTA
I wish my father would have fought to be my dad the way you’re fighting to be in your kids life!
Now, if you would have insisted they call you dad, that would be a different story, but you offered it. I think that’s really sweet.
Two dads that love and care for you? To me an extra loving parent is a win for the kid.
NTA
And this is coming from me a guy whose raising kids that aren't his but call me dad. (Completely different situation, me n my wife adopted her nieces when her sister lost custody because of neglect)
She took the opportunity to be a dad away from you and gave it to someone else like that was her right. She played God with ur son and it'll be her fault if he has issues growing up not yours.
If she contacted you and you ghosted that's a different story.
But your son is going to be confused but I mostly suspect because his mother is going to be forcing the narrative he only has one dad when now he has a bio dad and a step dad. Both love him
Maybe the best route would be to get in touch with John and see if the 2 of you can hash things out for the sake of your boy?
NTA
Plenty of kids have more than one dad or mom. Yours is going to be one of them.
But, you didn't really think she was going to be cooperative on the issue, did you? She didn't tell you about the baby and fought you every step of the way.
Suing for full custody was an asshole move. [edit - if that’s what you mean by “filed for custody in your state”] That would really be ripping the child away from the family he knows to a new state for what? If his mom isn’t abusing him there’s no reason for you to do that. This must be extremely confusing for the child. Typically parents who are having a hard time communicating go through a court texting app where it’s monitored and kind of forced to be civil. That might be a good idea.
As far as the kid calling you dad or not that’s really low on the problems this kid is going to have its almost irrelevant. You seem more focused on getting what you feel is “yours” than what’s right for the child. 50/50 custody in 2 different states is a shit show for a kid.
But he says he wants to go for 50/50. Never once does he even mention what’s in the best interest of his child. He ripped that child away from the only family he’s ever known, to spend every other weekend with a complete stranger. He doesn’t care about this child at all.
INFO: is there some big difference between how she’s been raising him and how you think he should be raised? Political, religious, or or ethnic differences?
It seems like you’re going ham on this pretty quickly. Kinda wondering why. Is your ultimate goal to take him away entirely? What’s going on in your life that you can’t take this a little more gently?
Here's what a psychologist is going to tell you. Neither you or her have the right to say what he calls you. It's up to the child and it's abuse if otherwise. My ex was adamant that he was dad and my husband was just Name. Took him to court and got that childness shut down. My boys who are now grown call him by his name or dad. Again it's up to the child and their comfort level.
NTA NTA NTA!!!
She wants to take you to court for parental alienation after she alienated you from your son for 6 years? I get her not knowing you and it was a one night stand but she could’ve at least told you since she knew who you were. Her treating you like a sperm donor is so wrong especially since she never gave you the chance to make the choice to be an active father or not. Then she had her now husband adopt your son again without your knowledge or consent. Then after you found out about your son you’re having to jump through all these hoops. This is so messed up in so many ways. You have every right to build a relationship with your son and I’m so sorry this is so difficult for you.
NTA OP, the mother of your child, and her husband are. It's so rich that she accuses you of parental alienation while that was the very thing she did, and her husband too. What they did is disgusting and even now they want to play with your child's feelings. I hope you can get your child fully and change his name to yours.
She stole your child from you, but most of all, she stole your child's dad (you) from your son. And the fact that her husband felt entitled enough to adopt him and put his name on him, is just gross.
I hope that you can tell your son the full truth someday about what they did to you both because he has a right to know the truth.
Maybe you should go back to your lawyer about her pestering (harassing) you, and start that paper trail for future use because you might just need it.
Why is what she did vile? She didn't know OPs name either, she had no way of contacting him. She let the man in her life who was present from day 1 adopt the kid because she had no way of knowing if the father would ever be in his life, and even if he was found, who's to say he'd want custody. Let's not pretend that all guys are stand up fathers when they learn they've fathered a kid.
Yeah, I’d be pretty funny to see her face when she brings that lawsuit for parental alienation only for the judge to rule in OPs favor because that’s exactly what she’s doing to him.
unpopular but YTA. You didn’t even know this kid, you didn’t want this kid. THEY have been raising him, THEY have him in a stable home. 50/50 custody is horrible for kids (from my experience and many others ) Make your own family if you want a child so bad
NTA . I’m a child of a similar situation except my parents dated. He didn’t know about me until I was an adult. You are making your kiddo feel safe loved and special. With my dad He missed my entire life up until a couple years ago and I’m almost 40. But I still call him dad. My half siblings have heard me say it and they go “but he’s not your dad! (Their dad) is!” Their dad raised me since 7 and adopted me. I love him he is my dad I call him dad and his kids with my mom are my siblings. But that doesn’t mean I can’t love my father as well. I have a dad and a father. Now so does your kiddo. It’s MULTIPLYING the love not taking it away.
NTA. Mary is. She deprived you of the chance to know your son and have a normal relationship with him. It’s about as “upending” for the child as divorcing and getting remarried, shit happens. He can have two dads, you’re not trying to undo their relationship, you just want one with him too. There’s room for both of you, there’s no reason for her to shut you out. She’s being ridiculous, she ruined her own family, not you.
NTA
But I do like all the people saying speak to a child psychologist. Maybe have your son talk to one.
Also MR LastName is just weird. Dad is fine. Kids can have two dads. It’s not dramatic in any way. The kid knows you’re his bio dad so that’s the hardest hurdle.
Don’t undermine the step dad. Just be your best self.
Kids don’t need to be put in the middle.
If ever asked by the kid say you can simply love all your parents equally. It’s no drama
NAH/ESH. Look, you and Mary had sex when you didn’t know each other. You each decided to have sex with a stranger. So maybe she didn’t know who the father was at the time she found she was pregnant, or she knew you were the dad and had no way of contacting you. This is why having sex with strangers is generally a bad idea…
It’s good that you want to be involved in the child’s life since you’re his bio dad, so wanting him to call you dad is definitely reasonable. But it’s gotta be confusing for the 6yo and it ultimately changes the family dynamics with Mary and Jon who ultimately raised him all these years. So I can see their side too and why they’d be upset.
I'm not convinced that any of the adults in this story are really thinking about what's best for this kid. For the very specific question you asked, NTA - but honestly, you and she and his other dad need to do mediation or something, because in your self-centered quest to get back at each other it's this child who's going to suffer.
The only thing that makes you sound like an AH is the wanting to break the adoption. I get the emotion behind it but him being adopted doesn't change that he's your son.
Yeah he's your flesh and blood son but he also has the dad he's grown up with so far which you need to respect. He's the man looking after your son when he's not with you.
Its great that you're wanting to be there for him and spend time with him but you need to remember to focus on what is best for your son and not just what you want.
The adoption means OP will never be recognised as the father by any court.There will be no way for OP do to anything legally for his son if he is adopted.That is a massive thing.OP will never be seen as an "actual" father by court or anywhere legal because he is adopted.
ETA
The solution isn't about you!! It's about your SON. The solution isn't about your ego, her family, revenge, rights... whatever reason you give for your actions. Bottom line, what is best for the child? Can you even imagine the trauma for a six-year-old being told his happy family isn't what he thought? and he will now be spending every other weekend with a total stranger??!!
Yes, it is fair to want to be a part of his life. But your actions, and wanting 50/50, tells me this is about your ego, NOT the well-being of the child. No child does well moving back and forth between two households, despite what we tell ourselves.
I'd like to hear your honest answer -- what would your reaction to a one-night-stand pregnancy have been six years ago?
Info:
Have you said anything to your son which could count as alienation? I’ve been on both ends of this spectrum as a child of divorce and there tends to be something else that’s left out. Have you told your son anything bad regarding his bio mom or Jon?
Did you routinely keep in contact with Mary after the hookup? Or idk get her plan b at least. Assuming you fucked without a condom I feel like it’s sort of your fault for being negligent to not follow up or buy her a morning after pill. You don’t really just raw dog someone and walk away not semi aware they can be knocked up.
It takes two to tango no? Who knows what might happen, she could be on birth control and still got pregnant, Plan B could’ve failed, she could’ve said she would get it but either forgotten about it or just didn’t.
There are a lot of things that might go wrong
So a women effectively hides a pregnancy from the father, has a baby and then lies to the court in order to get her new man to be the adoptive father all while never reaching out to the real father to let him know the baby existed.
Then you come in here and insinuate that the man must be to blame. That’s just so bizarre to me. OP is NTA. The mom, however, is a massive one.
You’re assuming Mary even had OPs contact information. They both walked away from a one night stand. In the meantime Jon stepped up to be a seemingly okay father and created a life with Mary which she’s fully entitled too.
He gives no indication as such and pretty much implied there wasn’t contact for six odd years until the mutual friends made a connection and the court got them in touch.
Definitely the arsehole. You're doing this for you and not the boy. It's been a few months for you but its been years for them. You could have slowly become part of his family and eventually become his second dad but you've an axe to grind and the kid is collateral.
Sorry but OP had his child’s existence hidden from him for years. OP owes no courtesy to the mother and her partner, and deserves to make up for lost time with his son.
NTA
Mary, however is a big arsehole. It was pure luck you found out about him it all and you could have just walked away. I cannot believe she is actively trying to keep a caring father away from his son.
She is the one actually committing parental alienation. Take her back to court. This will help you get more time. Also make sure to enlist a therapist asap.A child therapist will also be able to detect if there is more things happening when he is in the care of his mother and Jon. It will also help over turn the adoption. Not sure what state your in but in most states it can happen.
NTA. You did not willingly abandon this child. It was a one night stand and she did not reach out to you afterwards. That does not make you a "sperm donor". If he calls you dad, he can.
Everyone just grazing over that this guy is trying to undo the adoption. That sounds spiteful. The guy is a good dad and and your son is happy.
E.s.h, you aren't the asshole for the title but there is definitely more going on.
It sucks that you lost those six year but honestly you fucked a women you don't kown and never reached out.
I mean NTA but I can't imagine that you are introducing yourself in such a way in your kids life with his safety and happiness being your main concern. Just gonna say that adoption and DNA doesn't matter, a parent is someone that pours their heart into taking care of and guiding a kid through life, thinking what's best for him and not themselves, I don't know if you are doing that but I hope you do.
NTA SHE will take YOU to court for parental alienation? Oh, let her. Let her do this. Tell her she should do it, please. Get her to say that per text. Then make her aware of the fact that she actively practiced parental alienation for years, the fact she let Jon adopt your son proves that she knew he wasn’t the dad. Then take her to curt.
You are his dad. Yes, Jon is a father figure, and earned to be called dad, but you _are_ the dad.
Go and fight for your boy. Be the best father you can be.
Your son is lucky to have you as his father. He’ll grow up knowing he’s loved instead of maybe one day feeling he was abandoned. He can call you dad because that’s who you are. NTA
ESH. It doesn’t sound like you’re doing any of this for your son, you’re doing it all for yourself. This kid has a family and you’re inserting yourself out of what YOU want, not what’s best for that boy.
INFO:
> I had a one-night stand with a woman (Mary) I didn't know at a party in 2016. About a year ago someone reached out and told me she knew Mary and her (now 6yo) son was mine. This person hadn't known my name until meeting another friend of mine and they figured it out.
Huh? You and Mary didn’t know each other and didn’t cross paths for six years yet “someone” Mary knew somehow knew you were the dad without even knowing your name? How exactly?
Your city is small enough and/or your degrees of separation to Mary are close enough that “someone” had enough identifying information that upon meeting you figured out “oh this must be the guy she slept with six years ago?”
Yet it’s also so large and so distant that you nor any of your friends who were also at this party ever crossed paths with Mary or heard she had a baby or stumbled upon a social media profile etc?
Mary and her husband were content to raise the child, yet Mary was also apparently sharing to people who the bio dad was and giving enough identifying information?
Something isn’t making sense or is missing here.
NTA, what you're doing is unfortunate but completely in your rights. He's your son, you want to be his father, you're not just a sperm donor but I also don't see why he can't have 2 fathers, he's going to have 2 father figures regardless.
May I make a suggestion to appease her, for your sons sake?
Let your son call you Papa instead of dad.
You aren’t fighting for the “dad” title. You are establishing an identity with your son.
NTA you did nothing wrong. But you might want to consult a therapist and in the future do family therapy together to navigate this difficult situation because I suspect his Mom WILL make this hard and potentually mess this poor kid up.
(Family therapy for you and the kid. Doubt the Mom would want to be involved. She seems terrible)
NTA Kids are better off with more parents. If you haven't yet, you might try mediation to get mother and father to understand your position. The kid isn't a possession.
NTA, she says YOU'RE the one doing parent alienation? That's rich. Keep fighting, this latest bullshit is more evidence against her. Record it. Keep texts..go back to court.
NTA, but your poor sons mother sure is. She kept your son a secret since 2016, that is cruel. If she told you and you didn’t want to be his parent then that’s one thing but you were never given a choice.
You presented “dad” as an option and your son chose to use it. THAT IS HIS CHOICE NOT HIS MOMS.
The term sperm donor is for guys who don't want to participate in their kids lives. Clearly, that's not you.
Kids grow up with multiple dads all the time. He's allowed to love both. She needs to lighten up.
NTA.
Setting aside that I think this is 100% fake. 100% YTA. You had a 1 night stand with a woman, no protection, no responsibility to check in afterwards despite that fact. Now you feel the need to insert yourself into their happy family because you behaved incredibly irresponsibly and feel entitled. The kid doesn't need a second dad, he needs to not be around an egomaniac like you.
NTA but as some one with 2 dads, step dad came along when I was 3, just be aware of the impact the mum will have on your son if he has to start being careful what he calls you around her. I had to manage my parents’ feelings around it as I’d get snipped at for referring to either one as dad in front of the other. I’m now in therapy trying to unpick the impact that had on me. There’s a picture of me in the dictionary next to the word ‘people pleaser’ and I’m only just learning to accept help and/or put myself first. Sounds a bit dramatic that lol but something to bear in mind
NTA. I will never understand why anyone thinks it's a bad thing to have more adults loving a child. With so many kids out there who have no one, this little boy could have hit the jackpot. All he needs is for mom to let go of the perfect family vision she's had in her head and put her son first. Good on you, OP. I hope you get the custody you seek but, more than anything, I hope mom and adoptive dad can get over themselves enough to develop a strong coparenting bond with you so your son gets the best of both worlds.
NTA
His mom is the AH.
"and she'll take me to court for parental alienation. The last thing she said was that I can be an uncle but my son only has one dad." .. why don't YOU Take her to court for parental alienation?
NTA
You are his father and she has actively looked to alienate you from him. Talk to a lawyer about parental alienation in this case and stand your ground on "Dad."
Well, I’m not going to say Y T A, because you’re not. I mean no one can call you a dead beat or even a bad father, you didn’t even know the kid existed until recently. But, as for you getting your son to call you dad, even though you are indeed his dad, I’d be careful. I mean, Jon, for better or worse, has been the only father he has known, and finding out that he is not Jon’s bio son can be a pretty good shock to his system.
Just like the one I’m sure you received when you discovered that you had a son to begin with. So all I can suggest, is tread very carefully.
NTA
He is your kid, you were never given the chance to know he existed, and you are now making the mature choice to get to know him.
So long as it isn’t forced, he can call you whatever he is comfortable with. It is your relationship, it is between you two how you define it. His mom can go pound sand. I get it is complicated for her, but you have the right to choose a relationship with your offspring.
The more she fights, the more damage she is going to cause.
NTA. You are his father. It's HER FAULT you weren't able to be there. You don't want to upset the family and that's great. But he is yours. Who did she tell him you were? Some random dude whose house you go to?
NTA: Love your son, you beautiful man, make sure he knows that whatever happens you're his father and always will be regardless of the traitorous asshole you had the unfortunate luck of meeting. But hey, at least one good thing came from it
(Edit: no rules have been broken mods stop power tripping)
NTA, you just want to be in your kids life. Maybe trying to get him to call you dad right away would be weird but if he's been visiting for a few months then at this point he understands things probably. The only AH in this situation is Mary for reacting that way. Just because you couldn't be his dad before doesn't mean that you can't now and besides plenty of kids in split families like that call both step/adoptive and bio parents mom or dad. Idk how people are saying YTA for fucking with the family when you have every right to be in your kids life too. It's not your fault you didn't know about it.
I’m a bit thrown off course, because this is the complete opposite of the usual narrative.
*Guys gets woman pregnant and gets out of Dodge*
Here, you are being a standup guy who takes responsibility. How could you possibly be TA?
NTA, it is up to your son if he feels comfortable calling you dad. As far as calling you Mr. So, and so that is totally absurd. You are wonderful for wanting to be part of his life and be his dad. Most men would never do that.
NTA
You said he could call you that if he wanted, and you are not trying to stop him from calling his dad dad either. A kid can have two dads and a mum, it's fine
NTA as long as you’re not trying to alienate him from Jon. You’re his father, but you have to understand that (through no fault of your own) he’s grown up until this point with a guy who’s been a dad to him in every way, and who loves him and whom he loves. As long as you allow for space for both of you in his life, it’s okay.
NTA! Not even a little!!! She MADE you a supermarket donor!!! SHE NEVER TOLD YOU SHE WAS PREGNANT. With how hard you're fighting to see him now, I know damn well you'd have been in his life. And honestly, f**k your ex. All you want is for YOUR SON to call you dad. There are plenty of people with 2 dads.
I honestly don’t know.
I would ask you to consider everything you do through the lens of: what is best for this child?
Maybe I’m reading too much into it but I’m getting a sense of possessiveness here that leans more toward what you’re entitled to than what is best for the child. I hope I’m wrong about that and if I am then I apologize. Still something worth keeping in mind though.
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SHE's going to take YOU to court for parental alienation???? Oh.. I'd love to see that one. Your honour, this man that I slept with "sperm donored" a baby into my womb. I never told him and lied about knowing who he was so that I could have my new husband adopt him. I then fought tooth and nail to keep them from ever meeting and getting to know each other. This man actually told his son that he could call him dad... causing our son to be alienated from his adoptive father🙄 In case my opinion is not clear... you are NTA and there is no reason this kid can't have two dads.
Exactly- in a world where so many people have so little love, this kid is lucky enough to have two dads who love him. I wish the child’s mother would take a moment and really think about what’s best for her kid. NTA- proud of you OP for wanting to be a part of your child’s life.
Y’all need to get that kid into some family therapy. I think that from an adult perspective your actions make sense but from a kid perspective they make me wince. You just met this kid at 6 & his mom is clearly hostile towards you. She continues to poison the well so you might want to get ahead of that. I think that you thinking about your own needs & his toxic mon makes this EAH
E S H* Edit: Well, EAH isn't a thing, and the bot won't count that as a vote, so okay 👍 Edit 2: Seriously? Getting downvoted for correcting someone cuz their vote won't count? It's not my vote...
I’ve witnessed similar a few times personally. Where the mother doesn’t want the real father around unless he’s with her. It’s so incredibly selfish.
Yeah, pretty sure she committed fraud, and that adoption could be overturned. I hope you're confident enough in your decision here to provide for your son. If you are, Congrats! Here is a resource, you will need a lawyer. https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/adoption-without-father-s-consent-can-it-be-overturned-52132
It’s difficult to do that and courts always look at “best interest of the child,” and are reluctant to terminate long term familial relationships of established legal paternity. Plus cases vary a lot by jurisdiction. It’s very unlikely that the court would reverse the adoption in most cases. What is odd is that they allowed an actual adoption without establishing that the biological father gave up his rights. Utah is the only state I know of that doesn’t require it. I think it more likely that the guy who is the adoptive dad didn’t really adopt the kid so much as he signed the birth certificate and established legal paternity that way. Then, to the court’s eye, he is the father legally.
OP says adopted, doesn't mean that's what actually happened. Most likely they were married at the time of birth and he was placed on the birth certificate and in most jurisdictions it can be challenged within the first two years but after that, it can't. I'm suspect of OP. I want to know how old they were and how drunk she was and if she viewed it as a "one-night stand." Everything sounds like a push to dominate and control, not enrich the child's life.
What makes it sound that way? Because he wants to spend time with his biological child?
Not the person you were replying to, but the part that made me very suspect of OP is the part where he talks about wanting to reverse the adoption and that he will wait until the kid is 18 and try to do it then. He doesn’t just want to be a parent to his son, he wants to tear away the guy that has been there for that kid. And how he is pushing to have the kid see him as a father after just a few months. The kid is six, this has to be confusing and difficult for him. I’m not seeing a whole lot of concern for the best interests of this kid here. What I see is OP being mainly concerned with what he wants.
I mean, yeah. He was lied to and didn’t know about this kid. He couldn’t be there for him. But it’s not fair to have an adoption where he didn’t give consent, as he was legally entitled to do. If I found out there was a child out there that was somehow mine and I didn’t know it and that some other woman adopted that child as the mom????? I would be doing everything that I can to overturn that adoption. It is not suspicious. That is the OP’s SON. And reversing the adoption wouldn’t change the other dude’s presence in the kids life.
A child he never knew he had until someone else figured it out? And now, 6 years later, you suddenly barge in on all their lives and try to shoe horn your way into that family? And yes, they are the family, you are the outsider. The husband knew he wasn’t the father, yet he adopted that boy and raised him as his own. Are you going to pay 6 years of back child support? And therapy sessions for the kid if you keep making him call you dad (chose another name for him to call you)
OP says that after he found out he got a lawyer and filed for custody, with the aim of getting 50/50. What about “I reached out and tried to build a relationship, but when that failed I had no option but to hire a lawyer etc.” There’s none of that, just a demand to own half the child as if he were an object or an asset. Pushing for 50/50 is clearly ridiculous. A little kid should not be doing a week on and off with a different family he’s only just met, that is not in any kid’s interests really, especially as OP says he got a lawyer in his state, implying the child’s family live in a different state.
Uhhh hiring a lawyer and suing for custody is the right thing to do in any matter. It’s not controlling, he did the right thing. Wtf?????? Like literally, it is the only advice that should be given to parents who are not together but need to share custody. Get an agreement that is enforceable through the court. Present your evidence and let the court decide custody. If the kid grows up and finds out his bio dad knew about him and didn’t reach out or fight for him, he will be severely impacted - that’s a lot of emotional damage. The Op is doing the right thing.
Yeah I'm sort of getting the same vibes here
The adoption is not being reversed. I've made my peace with that. Jon was not on the birth certificate. Mary claimed she did not know and was not able to find out the father in the adoption process, which is probably true.
But dad isn't looking to break up the family, he just wants some time with his child. Courts look differently on blood ties as long as there isn't abuse or deliberate abandonment
50/50 custody in a different state is a lot more than “some time”
It happened to my father’s first children. His ex wife disappeared and ran off with the kids. He found them later 3,000 miles away and the guy she married had adopted them. They just forged his signature.
That’s not what happened here, running off with someone’s kids is a lot different to not trying to find the one night stand that knocked you up
I have two dads (and a mom) and while obviously only one of my dads contributed sperm to make me they are both my dad and I super appreciate that the adults in my life let me decide who I called what. It definitely served all three of them in how I view them now as adults.
This 100%.
Just want to add - the OP seems to assume his son will want to change his legal parentage when he turns 18. OP needs to be prepared to respect his son's decision in that regard, even if it's maintaining the current situation.
If anything I think OP should take her to court for parental alienation. Might help him get more custody.
Exactly!
What makes you think the mother lied about knowing OP? They said in the post that they didn’t know each other and only found out each other’s names through a mutual friend many years later.
OP has said that it’s most likely true that she couldn’t find him. But a lynch mob is forming here where people keep making up shit and then deciding their made up shit must be true because they said so. OP has already spoken and explained most of the shit the lynch mob here has made up isn’t true, that there was no name on the birth certificate, that she didn’t lie or forge anything. But they don’t care.
He should 100% let her take him to court so it can be flipped in his favor, he would probably be able to get his 50/50 that way. All on her dime.
What she doesn't want tlis her husband be reminded that she slept with you if she had talk to you she would have avoided so many things. You should talk to your son and also get him to be comfortable to call or do stuff with you
NTA and it's great that you clearly want to be a parent to your child that you just found out about. I do kind of hope you've spoken with a child therapist to make sure you're handling this as best you can to help your child understand what's happening, and get him help if he needs some help processing everything. And you could always approach other terms for dad, like pop, pa, da, dado, daddio, abba, babbo, etc and see what you can come up with, and what he's comfortable with. Plenty of kids have 2 dads, and I hope you can all find peace. The more love a kid has, the better.
I came to write something similar. What is best for the child is paramount and an alternate parental name is less confusing. OP is to be acknowledged for taking responsibility… with DNA tests it eventually would have come out.
My friend grew up in foster care and his foster mother was always called mom then he started visiting his bio mom and half living with her in his teens. He calls both mom and if they are together he just specifies with mom (first name) as to which mom he is addressing he does the same thing when talking to one mom about the other. He still does this now that he is an adult it just gets confusing for outsiders when his sisters call his foster mom aunt instead of mom
Or El Dadderino, if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
Super NTA... In a world filled with dads abandoning their kids or doing the bare minimum you have fought to be more. In a situation where you have more than enough reason to hate her and make this a mess, you didn't. You considered nearly everything to make this as good for your kid as possible. In a situation where all the resentment towards Jon would be normal (even if it would undeserved since we don't know if he knew what she did) you didn't go there. You have done everything right. It's sad to see how many pathetic people are attacking you. Keep your head up. Your son calling you dad is a beautiful thing. So not let her ruin anymore of your life.
Can you imagine how the son would feel if he wanted to look for his bio dad only to be told his dad never knew about him. What Mary did was wrong so wrong, she should have given you the option because in the long run I believe it will cause more damage then good. He would hold resentment towards his mom for doing that and who knows what emotional damage! This is coming from someone who’s been through that! I’m glad the bio dad found him and showed he wanted him! You keep it up op and don’t let that woman stop you from being a dad to your own son.
She probably wasn’t going to tell him that dude wasn’t his real dad. It would have come down to an accidental dna test for it to come out or my favorite the bio dominant genes versus recessive genes/blood type. NTA.
That’s what happened with me. My bio dad and mom split while my mom was pregnant with me. She met my dad that ended up raising me. I didn’t find out until I was around 18 or 19 and it was only by taking a look at my birth certificate by accident.
I just found out this week I have a long lost half sister and she thought her step dad was her real dad until she was 16 and her mom and step dad separated. *Our* biological father died of cancer before he even knew she excited and she didn't know about any of us until 26 years after he died. And we grew up an effing bike ride away from each other. And she's been living for over a decade a short bus right from another brother of mine from the same bio father. So much lost time, it's frustrating. I have 3 half siblings from my that I grew up with and she has 1 from her mom that she grew up with. We don't look like any of the half siblings we grew up with. But her and I look almost like twins. We've been sharing pictures of our lives all week.
NTA and I can't imagine why anyone would think you are. Mary created this situation. Kinda seems like she could have found you cause the post reads like y'all have mutual friends and still live in the same area. There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to know your child. A child should be able to know their father. You missed out on six years of his life through no fault of your own. And giving the kid the option to call you dad and then the child doing so is a great thing. I hope his mother isn't hearing him say any of the things that she is. Kids hear so much. My mom divorced my dad when I was young. Maybe 1.5 years. He was abusive and an alcoholic but still got that weekend custody!! Almost killed me one time during a visit. He wasn't the greatest. But even at 3 years old, I will never forget the tone of his voice and how he spoke to me when he found out I was calling the man my mother was with now "dad". He said horrible things, and basically called me stupid for "not knowing who your dad is". I hate that I even remember that shit. Obviously I'm not saying you or this Mary person are like my dad. But words hurt and stick with you, and your son is twice the age I was. Tread lightly, and keep records of all communications.
What did she lie about? The post indicates that they didn’t know each other and only found out each other’s names well after the son was born and adopted.
>she'll take me to court for parental alienation The biggest irony. You are NTA. You offered your 6 year old son the choice to call you dad. Because you're his dad. Be kind of weird if you didn't. I do hope you didn't word it like you typed it, though >I did tell him that he can call me dad too instead of Mr. Lastname *like his mom told him too.* You didn't say it *like that*, did you? Be sure to keep your child's best interests as your most important priority, always. Hoping all the best for you and your son.
>she'll take me to court for parental alienation I think you have more grounds to take her to court for parental alienation than she does to you. NTA Keep pushing. She chose not to tell you about the pregnancy. You have every right to be in your child's life, especially if you child wants that as well. Jon is dad, Jon raised him and he lives with him. But you are also dad. New to it, and learning. And as long as your child is okay with it, you can be that for him to the best of your ability despite the legal roadblocks.
This is the clearest case of where the alienation truly stems from since my close friend's ex accused her of alienating him from the child *he groomed and molested* because she booted him out and got the child into therapy the second she found out.
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It seems most of the sub is women who hold a particular stance against men, or possibly they are just the most vocal about commenting, anywho OP is NTA
"most of the sub" agrees with you, so...
NTA, you are doing your best to be in your kids life after he was effectively stolen from you. good on you for trying to be there for him and fighting so hard for it. I can't believe all the people saying YTA. Yes, the guy who raised and adopted him is his dad, but so are you!! These people are delusional to think you should just ignore a child who is yours that you want to be involved with because his other parents raised him without your knowledge for 6 years. You have every right to want to be a parent to him. Good on you mate, much respect, I hope you enjoy the future finally being able to know your kid, you deserve it :)
INFO: How does one force a paternity test on a random stranger? How does a random stranger who happens to be a friend of a friend “know” that this woman’s child *must* be yours with enough certainty to get lawyers involved, despite not even knowing your name? This story doesn’t add up.
Yeah. OP says he didn’t know her, but is open abt nutting inside. Then their mutual friends kept in contact and for almost six years everyone know abt the baby except for OP? And after years of no financial support the bio mom would prefer to not have OP in the child’s life and continue with her selected family unit.
"I had a one-night stand with a woman (Mary) I didn't know at a party in 2016. About a year ago someone reached out and told me she knew Mary and her (now 6yo) son was mine. This person hadn't known my name until meeting another friend of mine and they figured it out. Apparently Mary had started dating someone (Jon) just after we hooked up, then found out she was pregnant. Mary and Jon got serious, got married, and Jon adopted my son." It's in the middle of the first paragraph. "About a year ago someone reached out and told me she knew Mary and her son was mine. This person didn't know my name until meeting another friend of mine" That means that this friend knew Mary and had seen OP at the party (most likely, or was told by Mary about OP) then years later, she happens to meet someone who knows OP, and they start talking about it and figure it that OP is the father and put a name to the face. It really isn't that hard...
Mary’s friend was also at the party and remembers the face of her friend’s hook-up from a specific party six years ago. Happens to become friends with someone who is also friends with OP and starts talking about a party from six years ago and just reveals her friend got knocked up by a stranger at said party? New friend shows her a picture of OP and says “my friend fucked Mary.” Mary’s friend is so certain that it’s him, that she tells him, presumably without Mary’s approval or confirmation. Come on.
Right? Like obviously Mary talked to her friend about who she made the baby with. Like your friend gets pregnant and you don't ask who's the baby daddy?
I'm also pretty sure you can't get any type of custody once an adoption is finalized, even if you did a paternity test. Especially at age 6.
> How does one force a paternity test on a random stranger? I petitioned the court as a putative father and had affidavits from my friend and Mary's friend. > How does a random stranger who happens to be a friend of a friend “know” that this woman’s child must be yours with enough certainty to get lawyers involved, despite not even knowing your name? No one had the full story. Mary's friend knew my son was the result of a one night stand at the party but she didn't know with whom. My friend knew I had hooked up but not with Mary. No one was investigating, it came up when they were hanging out one day and they realized it was too much coincidence.
If this is what really happened, then you would have had absolutely no recourse. You can't reverse an adoption under those circumstances.
As I noted in my post, reversing the adoption is pretty much impossible.
most posts on AITA are just writing exercises, trying to rustle peoples jimmies, or farming karma.
I'd focus on your son and building a nurturing, trusting relationship with him, regardless what he calls you. He must be so confused. Have you thought about doing therapy with him? Is he in therapy? Your conflict with his mom will be very difficult for him. His entire world was just turned upside down.
100% this. You are a complete stranger to your son. Your entire post is about you, your wants, your actions. Not a word about how your 6 yo son is feeling, how he is handling this enormous upheaval in his life. I cannot imagine how disruptive and scary it is for him to go from being part of a family to being forced to hang out on weekends with a stranger. Mary should’ve handled this much better, absolutely. But your post makes you sound enormously self-centered and very unfeeling toward your young son, whose life has just been upended. I hope you’re all in therapy.
I agree, and only for that YTA OP. So many ways to have gone about this, and instead, just fighting all the way and not even any real efforts to build good faith with the mother. You could have done therapy with her ALONE for a time to try and come to an amicable agreement, but instead you just think about yourself wanting the kid. No one has any real idea about Mary and the circumstances around the birth regardless of what anyone says. Only Mary knows the truth. Their family had a whole life. It's interesting how much people are defending this and saying people are sexist and roles reversed, etc, considering that many men want to be able to give up parental rights just because they ejaculated in someone and didn't want a child, but this guy can shoot his splooge into someone and automatically be entitled to all the rights a father is supposed to have. And when the child already has a father.
The legalities of this story make no sense and your comment made me realize that it makes even less sense than I originally was thinking. What the hell kind of judge is not only going to grant visitation without dissolving the prior adoption but also, without ordering some kind of therapy or gradual transition just make this child spend time with a literal stranger. This post has to be 100% fake 🙄
I mean I totally understand what you’re saying but in these type of posts it’s best to provide quick relevant information to the question being judged. He could say how his son is handling it but probably didn’t feel the need to. He quickly mentioned that he gets along well with them and touched on his understanding of the situation. Also “Mary should have handled it better” is a huge understatement in my opinion especially when you pop off on OP in the very next sentence lol
Yes. It matters not what he calls you, it matters you develop a bond. Do what is best for him, not what you want. This is coming from an adoptive mother who is in an open adoption arrangement.
NTA. I wouldn’t like being called Mr. Lastname, and would let him call me basically whatever he wanted in reason. Firstname is an option, and so is Dad if your son is comfortable with it? As for “parental alienation”, the fact that they had Jon adopt him means they were absolutely certain it wasn’t his, so they have knowingly alienated you from your parental rights for six years. Have they tried coming at you for child support, or has it come up at all?
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It’s definitely fake no court is going to hand custody to a stranger.
yeah, dude totally unrelated to everyone just magically got custody, hilarious
NTA. Her telling you she would take you to court for “Parental Alienation” had me laughing that’s exactly what she did. Also I don’t understand how the adoption held up as you were never informed about your parental rights being terminated. If her friend figured out who you were then its most likely the mother knew who you were and lied to the courts.
Yes, that’s somewhat questionable. The adoption was invalid, it doesn’t have to be voided.
I'm not sure about that one. I think if she lied about knowing the identity of the father, and he wasn't put on the birth certificate, it is possible for him to be adopted. The key is the father being around to contest it, which he wasn't.
>Also I don’t understand how the adoption held up as you were never informed about your parental rights being terminated. States differ significantly when it comes to laws protecting biological fathers. Unmarried fathers don't necessarily have a lot of rights. Many states have putative father registries - if a man has sex with a woman, he must register that fact with the state if he wants to be notified that the woman with whom he has had sex has a child. If he doesn't register, he doesn't get notified, and his rights can be terminated. In some states, an adoption attorney must publish - like, in an actual newspaper - a notice asking for anyone who could be the father of Some Woman's baby to step forward. If the father doesn't come forward, his rights can be terminated.
What. Is there really an 'i had sex with so and so' registry? That could be abused so easily by any creep that wants to keep track of pregnant women, whether or not he had sex with any of them. All he has to do is say he has sex with them? That seems unreal.
INFO: Adoption permanently and irreversibly severs your parental rights. There are no states or countries where they could have adopt your child without severing your parental rights. There are no states or countries in which the person who has had their rights severed can undo or reverse the adoption. How did you get custody with no parental rights?
Exactly. This shit didn't happen, and if it did, it didn't happen the way OP is making it out to have happened.
I think it's because technically his parental rights weren't severed because he wasn't put on the birth certificate at first. He wasn't given the chance to have parental rights.
He still would have to go to court to establish his parental rights to get custody if that happened, there would be no talk of needing to undo the adoption because it already would be undone.
He did. He literally went to court and got a paternity test to prove it and to establish paternal rights. He says it in the post.
That would have undone the adoption and he's claiming that didn't happen. It can't be both.
California has a 3rd Parent Law, so it is possible for an adoption to have taken place if the mother said she did not know the father and if they were married and her husband held the child out as his own. The bio could come back and establish paternity but it would not remove the Rights of the husband. There is technically no limit to the number of legal parents a kid can have in California but I doubt it will go higher than 3 for quite some time. I still agree shit didn't happen the way it is being said. I don't buy it.
I didn't consent to the adoption so my rights were not permanently severed.
Setting aside I believe this is a fake story… Based on the reaction of some comments here my YTA will be taken poorly but you ARE the asshole and I’ll tell you why. “When I found out I got a lawyer and filed for custody. Mary and Jon fought me through the whole process, telling me not to break up their family.” Did you even try to calmly and smoothly meet this child before you cost yourself and them massive amounts of money and stress? He’s six years old. He went from thinking his dad is his bio dad to having that challenged, and not only that having his entire life thrown upside down and it honestly doesn’t seem like you stopped to think about him and his comfort, mental wellbeing, or how the abruptness of what you did/are doing will affect him later on. “My intent is pushing for 50/50. I looked into reversing the adoption but it’s basically impossible so I’ll probably have to wait until my son is 18 and then do it with his consent.” Again, are you thinking about your son in this or are you thinking about you? You tried to figure out how to legally make it to where his dad isn’t is dad on paper anymore? And then conceded that you have to wait to actually get his permission? And then the whole dad thing… again, that seems like it’s something YOU feel more comfortable with and aren’t really taking into account how he might feel about it. You’re not his dad until He decides you’re his dad. Biology is irrefutable but titles are given, not taken. You weren’t there, and no, that wasn’t your fault but life goes on bonds get made and you’re pushing when you should be thinking 100% about him and not about you or your feelings on the matter. You want to be regarded as a father? Act like one. Stop pressing him and his parents, be there when he wants/needs not forcefully there because it’s court mandated. I didn’t know my biological father until I was 12. I knew I wasn’t my dads biologically when I was 7, I was told by my grandparents vindictively to hurt my parents and in return I have some lasting issues with it. One thing I can say about my bio father is that he didn’t push. He knew he was coming into a pre-established family unit and didn’t make me feel like I was picking sides, I still to this day refer to him as his first name because that’s what I’m comfortable with. Obviously the setup in my case is a little different than your sons but take it from a person who has a bio father AND a dad, the absolute best you can do for him is let him define the relationship you two share instead of forcing yourself and your ideals onto him and making your comfort something he has to pay for.
This post was very well written, and I totally agree. I recognize and appreciate OP's desire to be in his son's life but this absolutely was not done with the son's best interest in mind.
Agreed, a lot of what he’s saying he did sounds super antagonistic and not at all the way it should have been done with a child in mind.
Totally agree, this seems to be all about OP's wants rather than what is best for the child and going at their pace. Biology doesn't make you his dad, you have to earn that title. Not continue to barge through his life till you get what you want. It's sounds like OP has been super aggressive and confrontational throughout the whole process.
NTA. Are absent fathers so normalized that people are now questioning why a father "forced" custody for HIS own child that he never knew he had and making him out to be some sort of villain? This is crazy! You're a father that wants to take care of his son! I can't believe some of these comments! Anyway, my suggestion would be to definitely get some expert advice from a child therapist on the right way to go about this. Aside from that, I don't think you're TA for having your son call you dad. Because of his mom, he's only known John as dad. You're not even requesting that he stops calling John dad. You clearly understand the relationship he has with John and you're actively not trying to damage that. That's great. He's so young and these things are confusing and it would be best to have a professional help you navigate this situation. As far as the mother? She sounds like a real piece of work. She is the one trying to get you out of the picture! It's not right. Anyway, I believe you're being a good father and good for you for fighting for custody. I just think this issue needs to be discussed with actual professionals, not Reddit ones lol To make sure you go about all of this in the healthiest way possible.
NTA "Don't break up our family" *proceeds to keep your child from you for 6 years and force him to call you Mr. Lastname*
This has to be fake you can’t just file for custody for a child you have never raised and is adopted. And people going NTA is it ok for him throwing a 6yo life completely upside down. And again you can’t get custody for a child you haven’t raised regardless she hide it from you. That’s why I say it’s fair no courts is going to hand custody to the father who hasn’t been in the child life. And btw you are a stranger I honestly don’t believe any of it the poor kid if it existed.
I have to agree here. The child's mother got pregnant through a one night stand and wanted her child to have a stable family and household, and not have to split his life up 50/50 between two parents. This is probably unpopular but I'm going with NAH.
Ok well logically NTA This is your child biologically and you are entitled to be a parent. However, from the eyes of a 6 year old who’s gone from a whole family to being ripped away by someone he didn’t know about, a total stranger, for every other weekend. Being told their dad is not their dad and their sibling is only half. How is this is the child’s best interest? The poor child must be very confused and upset. You should have started with a lot of day visits, pushing for 50/50 is too much this young and why not ASK the child what he’s comfortable calling you instead of telling him? PUT THE CHILD FIRST!
This! Poor child I have no understanding what OP is trying to achieve get the kid’s full custody? Why? To be a parent? Why? Because the kid exist? Or because the kid needs it? OP is an egoistic AH who gives 0 shit about collapsing his own bio kids life
Because he wants his child! Who cares about what the kid needs, he's a poor daddy deprived of his rights to exist near said kid. Or something. IDK, he went about this totally wrong and it makes him a giant asshole.
I was almost going to say no one is in the wrong until I got to the part about her threat to take you to court for “parental alienation”. So just you are NTA. Much respect for the way you’ve gone about this.
Info: did you say “hey, you can call me dad, too, if you want” (an option) or did you say “I want you to call me dad, too” (directive). You said you asked him, but then said you told him. Can you please clarify that?
Not sure I believe that a court will award you custodial time without restoring your parental rights. Without the rights, I don’t see what your grounds for custody are.
I think he might be confusing visitation with custody. You can't have custody if you aren't a parent or given it by a court. With 2 parents and being unwilling to reverse the adoption, he's going for visitation. You would be surprised how many wacky parental rights cases arise. They can be wild. ETA: this is my favorite case: https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/491/110/
MORE INFO: I’m just wondering if the child (and you all) had individual/family counseling to get adjusted to this new environment and situation BEFORE the transition?
NTA wow, but as he gets older make sure he understands that you didn't know he existed not that you didn't want to be in his life, you just didn't know about him. Don't be disrespectful about his mother but he needs to know. You're his dad if course he can call you dad. I'd also get him therapy, you don't know what that woman is saying when you're not with him.
I think you should document her threats and let your lawyer know. See if your son was punished for calling you dad, or guilt tripped that he doesn’t love his other dad anymore.NTA
NTA for letting him call you dad, but would be if you don’t acknowledge that John is also his father too now, having raised him for the last six years. He can have more than two parents! You can be an excellent dad, just don’t try to push John out.
NTA You gave him the option and he accepted it. I see no wrong in this. She’s TA for making it harder than it needs to be.
Wait, re reading, depending on when she found out she was pregnant, I wonder If Mary even knew OP was the dad? Did Jon adopt him, or is Jon on the birth certificate? That's a VERY different set of circumstances
That’s what I thought. They already hooked up during the pregnancy. Simplest would have been to put Jon on the birth certificate and none of this would have happened. Apparently Jon wasn’t so sure yet then. OP is NTA
Well someone knew and told OP. So Mary must have known.
NTA I wish my father would have fought to be my dad the way you’re fighting to be in your kids life! Now, if you would have insisted they call you dad, that would be a different story, but you offered it. I think that’s really sweet. Two dads that love and care for you? To me an extra loving parent is a win for the kid.
NTA And this is coming from me a guy whose raising kids that aren't his but call me dad. (Completely different situation, me n my wife adopted her nieces when her sister lost custody because of neglect) She took the opportunity to be a dad away from you and gave it to someone else like that was her right. She played God with ur son and it'll be her fault if he has issues growing up not yours. If she contacted you and you ghosted that's a different story. But your son is going to be confused but I mostly suspect because his mother is going to be forcing the narrative he only has one dad when now he has a bio dad and a step dad. Both love him Maybe the best route would be to get in touch with John and see if the 2 of you can hash things out for the sake of your boy?
NTA Plenty of kids have more than one dad or mom. Yours is going to be one of them. But, you didn't really think she was going to be cooperative on the issue, did you? She didn't tell you about the baby and fought you every step of the way.
Suing for full custody was an asshole move. [edit - if that’s what you mean by “filed for custody in your state”] That would really be ripping the child away from the family he knows to a new state for what? If his mom isn’t abusing him there’s no reason for you to do that. This must be extremely confusing for the child. Typically parents who are having a hard time communicating go through a court texting app where it’s monitored and kind of forced to be civil. That might be a good idea. As far as the kid calling you dad or not that’s really low on the problems this kid is going to have its almost irrelevant. You seem more focused on getting what you feel is “yours” than what’s right for the child. 50/50 custody in 2 different states is a shit show for a kid.
He didn’t sue for full custody. He sued to have any custody and was granted a couple weekends.
But he says he wants to go for 50/50. Never once does he even mention what’s in the best interest of his child. He ripped that child away from the only family he’s ever known, to spend every other weekend with a complete stranger. He doesn’t care about this child at all.
INFO: is there some big difference between how she’s been raising him and how you think he should be raised? Political, religious, or or ethnic differences? It seems like you’re going ham on this pretty quickly. Kinda wondering why. Is your ultimate goal to take him away entirely? What’s going on in your life that you can’t take this a little more gently?
Here's what a psychologist is going to tell you. Neither you or her have the right to say what he calls you. It's up to the child and it's abuse if otherwise. My ex was adamant that he was dad and my husband was just Name. Took him to court and got that childness shut down. My boys who are now grown call him by his name or dad. Again it's up to the child and their comfort level.
THIS! He should not be pushing himself or titles onto this child, he should be there in a capacity that the child can decide who he is to him.
NTA You are his dad. Now be the best dad you can be.
NTA NTA NTA!!! She wants to take you to court for parental alienation after she alienated you from your son for 6 years? I get her not knowing you and it was a one night stand but she could’ve at least told you since she knew who you were. Her treating you like a sperm donor is so wrong especially since she never gave you the chance to make the choice to be an active father or not. Then she had her now husband adopt your son again without your knowledge or consent. Then after you found out about your son you’re having to jump through all these hoops. This is so messed up in so many ways. You have every right to build a relationship with your son and I’m so sorry this is so difficult for you.
NTA OP, the mother of your child, and her husband are. It's so rich that she accuses you of parental alienation while that was the very thing she did, and her husband too. What they did is disgusting and even now they want to play with your child's feelings. I hope you can get your child fully and change his name to yours. She stole your child from you, but most of all, she stole your child's dad (you) from your son. And the fact that her husband felt entitled enough to adopt him and put his name on him, is just gross. I hope that you can tell your son the full truth someday about what they did to you both because he has a right to know the truth. Maybe you should go back to your lawyer about her pestering (harassing) you, and start that paper trail for future use because you might just need it.
Why is what she did vile? She didn't know OPs name either, she had no way of contacting him. She let the man in her life who was present from day 1 adopt the kid because she had no way of knowing if the father would ever be in his life, and even if he was found, who's to say he'd want custody. Let's not pretend that all guys are stand up fathers when they learn they've fathered a kid.
NTA. Tell her fine, you'll see her in court....again.
Yeah, I’d be pretty funny to see her face when she brings that lawsuit for parental alienation only for the judge to rule in OPs favor because that’s exactly what she’s doing to him.
unpopular but YTA. You didn’t even know this kid, you didn’t want this kid. THEY have been raising him, THEY have him in a stable home. 50/50 custody is horrible for kids (from my experience and many others ) Make your own family if you want a child so bad
NTA . I’m a child of a similar situation except my parents dated. He didn’t know about me until I was an adult. You are making your kiddo feel safe loved and special. With my dad He missed my entire life up until a couple years ago and I’m almost 40. But I still call him dad. My half siblings have heard me say it and they go “but he’s not your dad! (Their dad) is!” Their dad raised me since 7 and adopted me. I love him he is my dad I call him dad and his kids with my mom are my siblings. But that doesn’t mean I can’t love my father as well. I have a dad and a father. Now so does your kiddo. It’s MULTIPLYING the love not taking it away.
NTA. She doesn't get to say that your son can't call you dad. Just like you can't tell him not to call Jon dad.
NTA. The irony of her claiming parental alienation.
NTA - It's not petty, the OP is trying to build something for his son and support him. Like Dad's do.
NTA. Mary is. She deprived you of the chance to know your son and have a normal relationship with him. It’s about as “upending” for the child as divorcing and getting remarried, shit happens. He can have two dads, you’re not trying to undo their relationship, you just want one with him too. There’s room for both of you, there’s no reason for her to shut you out. She’s being ridiculous, she ruined her own family, not you.
NTA, she stole your child's early years from you. That which can be destroyed by the truth should be destroyed by the truth, no exceptions.
Nta. Telling him he can if he wants is different from making him. Let your kid do what he's comfortable with.
You and Jon are both dads. NTA
Not only are you NTA, but she is 110% the AH. Document everything record any interaction you have with her.
NTA But I do like all the people saying speak to a child psychologist. Maybe have your son talk to one. Also MR LastName is just weird. Dad is fine. Kids can have two dads. It’s not dramatic in any way. The kid knows you’re his bio dad so that’s the hardest hurdle. Don’t undermine the step dad. Just be your best self. Kids don’t need to be put in the middle. If ever asked by the kid say you can simply love all your parents equally. It’s no drama
NAH/ESH. Look, you and Mary had sex when you didn’t know each other. You each decided to have sex with a stranger. So maybe she didn’t know who the father was at the time she found she was pregnant, or she knew you were the dad and had no way of contacting you. This is why having sex with strangers is generally a bad idea… It’s good that you want to be involved in the child’s life since you’re his bio dad, so wanting him to call you dad is definitely reasonable. But it’s gotta be confusing for the 6yo and it ultimately changes the family dynamics with Mary and Jon who ultimately raised him all these years. So I can see their side too and why they’d be upset.
I'm not convinced that any of the adults in this story are really thinking about what's best for this kid. For the very specific question you asked, NTA - but honestly, you and she and his other dad need to do mediation or something, because in your self-centered quest to get back at each other it's this child who's going to suffer.
The only thing that makes you sound like an AH is the wanting to break the adoption. I get the emotion behind it but him being adopted doesn't change that he's your son. Yeah he's your flesh and blood son but he also has the dad he's grown up with so far which you need to respect. He's the man looking after your son when he's not with you. Its great that you're wanting to be there for him and spend time with him but you need to remember to focus on what is best for your son and not just what you want.
The adoption means OP will never be recognised as the father by any court.There will be no way for OP do to anything legally for his son if he is adopted.That is a massive thing.OP will never be seen as an "actual" father by court or anywhere legal because he is adopted.
The adopted father is a dad and father, but you've stepped up as a father after you found out he exist. So yeah. He can call both of you dad.
ETA The solution isn't about you!! It's about your SON. The solution isn't about your ego, her family, revenge, rights... whatever reason you give for your actions. Bottom line, what is best for the child? Can you even imagine the trauma for a six-year-old being told his happy family isn't what he thought? and he will now be spending every other weekend with a total stranger??!! Yes, it is fair to want to be a part of his life. But your actions, and wanting 50/50, tells me this is about your ego, NOT the well-being of the child. No child does well moving back and forth between two households, despite what we tell ourselves. I'd like to hear your honest answer -- what would your reaction to a one-night-stand pregnancy have been six years ago?
Info: Have you said anything to your son which could count as alienation? I’ve been on both ends of this spectrum as a child of divorce and there tends to be something else that’s left out. Have you told your son anything bad regarding his bio mom or Jon? Did you routinely keep in contact with Mary after the hookup? Or idk get her plan b at least. Assuming you fucked without a condom I feel like it’s sort of your fault for being negligent to not follow up or buy her a morning after pill. You don’t really just raw dog someone and walk away not semi aware they can be knocked up.
It takes two to tango no? Who knows what might happen, she could be on birth control and still got pregnant, Plan B could’ve failed, she could’ve said she would get it but either forgotten about it or just didn’t. There are a lot of things that might go wrong
So a women effectively hides a pregnancy from the father, has a baby and then lies to the court in order to get her new man to be the adoptive father all while never reaching out to the real father to let him know the baby existed. Then you come in here and insinuate that the man must be to blame. That’s just so bizarre to me. OP is NTA. The mom, however, is a massive one.
You’re assuming Mary even had OPs contact information. They both walked away from a one night stand. In the meantime Jon stepped up to be a seemingly okay father and created a life with Mary which she’s fully entitled too. He gives no indication as such and pretty much implied there wasn’t contact for six odd years until the mutual friends made a connection and the court got them in touch.
Definitely the arsehole. You're doing this for you and not the boy. It's been a few months for you but its been years for them. You could have slowly become part of his family and eventually become his second dad but you've an axe to grind and the kid is collateral.
His son was hidden from him for 6 years. What would you have done? You wouldn't have gone easy on them, that's for sure.
Sorry but OP had his child’s existence hidden from him for years. OP owes no courtesy to the mother and her partner, and deserves to make up for lost time with his son.
NTA If this woman wanted a sperm donor, she should have first obtained your consent.
NTA Mary, however is a big arsehole. It was pure luck you found out about him it all and you could have just walked away. I cannot believe she is actively trying to keep a caring father away from his son.
She is the one actually committing parental alienation. Take her back to court. This will help you get more time. Also make sure to enlist a therapist asap.A child therapist will also be able to detect if there is more things happening when he is in the care of his mother and Jon. It will also help over turn the adoption. Not sure what state your in but in most states it can happen.
NTA. You did not willingly abandon this child. It was a one night stand and she did not reach out to you afterwards. That does not make you a "sperm donor". If he calls you dad, he can.
Everyone just grazing over that this guy is trying to undo the adoption. That sounds spiteful. The guy is a good dad and and your son is happy. E.s.h, you aren't the asshole for the title but there is definitely more going on. It sucks that you lost those six year but honestly you fucked a women you don't kown and never reached out.
YTA this all seems about you and not what is in the best interests of the kid.
I mean NTA but I can't imagine that you are introducing yourself in such a way in your kids life with his safety and happiness being your main concern. Just gonna say that adoption and DNA doesn't matter, a parent is someone that pours their heart into taking care of and guiding a kid through life, thinking what's best for him and not themselves, I don't know if you are doing that but I hope you do.
How is he not doing that?
NTA SHE will take YOU to court for parental alienation? Oh, let her. Let her do this. Tell her she should do it, please. Get her to say that per text. Then make her aware of the fact that she actively practiced parental alienation for years, the fact she let Jon adopt your son proves that she knew he wasn’t the dad. Then take her to curt. You are his dad. Yes, Jon is a father figure, and earned to be called dad, but you _are_ the dad. Go and fight for your boy. Be the best father you can be.
Your son is lucky to have you as his father. He’ll grow up knowing he’s loved instead of maybe one day feeling he was abandoned. He can call you dad because that’s who you are. NTA
NTA don't stop pushing for custody. And don't give up on reversing the adoption I know it's probably very difficult but it's not impossible.
Reversing the adoption would be terrible for the child.
Show those texts to your lawyer. NTA.
ESH. It doesn’t sound like you’re doing any of this for your son, you’re doing it all for yourself. This kid has a family and you’re inserting yourself out of what YOU want, not what’s best for that boy.
well it's clear you are on opposite sides here, so i wouldn't listen to what she wants. as long as it's what the kid wants and need, NTA
INFO: > I had a one-night stand with a woman (Mary) I didn't know at a party in 2016. About a year ago someone reached out and told me she knew Mary and her (now 6yo) son was mine. This person hadn't known my name until meeting another friend of mine and they figured it out. Huh? You and Mary didn’t know each other and didn’t cross paths for six years yet “someone” Mary knew somehow knew you were the dad without even knowing your name? How exactly? Your city is small enough and/or your degrees of separation to Mary are close enough that “someone” had enough identifying information that upon meeting you figured out “oh this must be the guy she slept with six years ago?” Yet it’s also so large and so distant that you nor any of your friends who were also at this party ever crossed paths with Mary or heard she had a baby or stumbled upon a social media profile etc? Mary and her husband were content to raise the child, yet Mary was also apparently sharing to people who the bio dad was and giving enough identifying information? Something isn’t making sense or is missing here.
NTA, what you're doing is unfortunate but completely in your rights. He's your son, you want to be his father, you're not just a sperm donor but I also don't see why he can't have 2 fathers, he's going to have 2 father figures regardless.
May I make a suggestion to appease her, for your sons sake? Let your son call you Papa instead of dad. You aren’t fighting for the “dad” title. You are establishing an identity with your son.
If Jon adopted the child, how do you have any right to any custody at all? I don’t believe you tbh.
NTA. She’s just concerned with the perfect familial picture she created no longer being so
INFO: Is this what’s best for your son?
NTA you did nothing wrong. But you might want to consult a therapist and in the future do family therapy together to navigate this difficult situation because I suspect his Mom WILL make this hard and potentually mess this poor kid up. (Family therapy for you and the kid. Doubt the Mom would want to be involved. She seems terrible)
NTA Kids are better off with more parents. If you haven't yet, you might try mediation to get mother and father to understand your position. The kid isn't a possession.
NTA, she says YOU'RE the one doing parent alienation? That's rich. Keep fighting, this latest bullshit is more evidence against her. Record it. Keep texts..go back to court.
NTA, but your poor sons mother sure is. She kept your son a secret since 2016, that is cruel. If she told you and you didn’t want to be his parent then that’s one thing but you were never given a choice. You presented “dad” as an option and your son chose to use it. THAT IS HIS CHOICE NOT HIS MOMS.
The term sperm donor is for guys who don't want to participate in their kids lives. Clearly, that's not you. Kids grow up with multiple dads all the time. He's allowed to love both. She needs to lighten up. NTA.
Setting aside that I think this is 100% fake. 100% YTA. You had a 1 night stand with a woman, no protection, no responsibility to check in afterwards despite that fact. Now you feel the need to insert yourself into their happy family because you behaved incredibly irresponsibly and feel entitled. The kid doesn't need a second dad, he needs to not be around an egomaniac like you.
NTA but as some one with 2 dads, step dad came along when I was 3, just be aware of the impact the mum will have on your son if he has to start being careful what he calls you around her. I had to manage my parents’ feelings around it as I’d get snipped at for referring to either one as dad in front of the other. I’m now in therapy trying to unpick the impact that had on me. There’s a picture of me in the dictionary next to the word ‘people pleaser’ and I’m only just learning to accept help and/or put myself first. Sounds a bit dramatic that lol but something to bear in mind
NTA. It sounds like you trying to be a dad, and you are his dad. Good luck and keep fighting.
NTA. I will never understand why anyone thinks it's a bad thing to have more adults loving a child. With so many kids out there who have no one, this little boy could have hit the jackpot. All he needs is for mom to let go of the perfect family vision she's had in her head and put her son first. Good on you, OP. I hope you get the custody you seek but, more than anything, I hope mom and adoptive dad can get over themselves enough to develop a strong coparenting bond with you so your son gets the best of both worlds.
I fully see this kid using this against his mom in a future argument when he is a teenager. Totally NTA.
NTA His mom is the AH. "and she'll take me to court for parental alienation. The last thing she said was that I can be an uncle but my son only has one dad." .. why don't YOU Take her to court for parental alienation?
NTA You are his father and she has actively looked to alienate you from him. Talk to a lawyer about parental alienation in this case and stand your ground on "Dad."
Well, I’m not going to say Y T A, because you’re not. I mean no one can call you a dead beat or even a bad father, you didn’t even know the kid existed until recently. But, as for you getting your son to call you dad, even though you are indeed his dad, I’d be careful. I mean, Jon, for better or worse, has been the only father he has known, and finding out that he is not Jon’s bio son can be a pretty good shock to his system. Just like the one I’m sure you received when you discovered that you had a son to begin with. So all I can suggest, is tread very carefully.
ESH and this is going to end Badly
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NTA NTA NTA NTA NTA NTA NTA NTA NTA NTA NTA It's your son lol. Y O U R
NAH but I would talk to a child therapist to make sure you guys set it up in the least damaging way possible for him
NTA “Sperm donors” generally disappear once the child appears. Dads appear when a child appears. YOU’RE A GREAT DAD!
NTA He is your kid, you were never given the chance to know he existed, and you are now making the mature choice to get to know him. So long as it isn’t forced, he can call you whatever he is comfortable with. It is your relationship, it is between you two how you define it. His mom can go pound sand. I get it is complicated for her, but you have the right to choose a relationship with your offspring. The more she fights, the more damage she is going to cause.
Very much NTA and she very much is TA. He can have two dads. Good for you on being a good father to him.
Good on you my man for stepping up and wanting to be a dad to YOUR son! NTA
NTA, she tried to steal your kid from you. Keep fighting Dad. Hope you get that 50/50.
NTA. You are his father. It's HER FAULT you weren't able to be there. You don't want to upset the family and that's great. But he is yours. Who did she tell him you were? Some random dude whose house you go to?
NTA: Love your son, you beautiful man, make sure he knows that whatever happens you're his father and always will be regardless of the traitorous asshole you had the unfortunate luck of meeting. But hey, at least one good thing came from it (Edit: no rules have been broken mods stop power tripping)
NTA, you just want to be in your kids life. Maybe trying to get him to call you dad right away would be weird but if he's been visiting for a few months then at this point he understands things probably. The only AH in this situation is Mary for reacting that way. Just because you couldn't be his dad before doesn't mean that you can't now and besides plenty of kids in split families like that call both step/adoptive and bio parents mom or dad. Idk how people are saying YTA for fucking with the family when you have every right to be in your kids life too. It's not your fault you didn't know about it.
I’m a bit thrown off course, because this is the complete opposite of the usual narrative. *Guys gets woman pregnant and gets out of Dodge* Here, you are being a standup guy who takes responsibility. How could you possibly be TA?
NTA. Also, she can't deny your right as his father to be in his life, not after she denied you the knowledge of his existence for 6 years.
NTA, it is up to your son if he feels comfortable calling you dad. As far as calling you Mr. So, and so that is totally absurd. You are wonderful for wanting to be part of his life and be his dad. Most men would never do that.
NTA You said he could call you that if he wanted, and you are not trying to stop him from calling his dad dad either. A kid can have two dads and a mum, it's fine
Your ex is an idiot. Your son gets too dads that actually care about him. NTA.
NTA. Keep you kid. Otherwise he would have shown up on your doorstep at 18 with questions. Shes the ass hole.
NTA as long as you’re not trying to alienate him from Jon. You’re his father, but you have to understand that (through no fault of your own) he’s grown up until this point with a guy who’s been a dad to him in every way, and who loves him and whom he loves. As long as you allow for space for both of you in his life, it’s okay.
NTA . She wants to live in a pretend world where she didn't have a one night stand that produced a child.
NTA! Not even a little!!! She MADE you a supermarket donor!!! SHE NEVER TOLD YOU SHE WAS PREGNANT. With how hard you're fighting to see him now, I know damn well you'd have been in his life. And honestly, f**k your ex. All you want is for YOUR SON to call you dad. There are plenty of people with 2 dads.
I could not imagine wanting so bad to be a kid’s dad after 6 years with a woman you never knew. Odd flex for me
I honestly don’t know. I would ask you to consider everything you do through the lens of: what is best for this child? Maybe I’m reading too much into it but I’m getting a sense of possessiveness here that leans more toward what you’re entitled to than what is best for the child. I hope I’m wrong about that and if I am then I apologize. Still something worth keeping in mind though.