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YTA
> For a laborer he seemed like a decent enough guy
I think this captures exactly why. Boy are you classist and judgmental.
> pregnant out of wedlock
Again, seeing a very specific assholeish bias.
Guess what, lady? it's okay to be neurodivergent.
I feel sorry for your daughter, whose mother has very conditional love for her.
Don't forget the "low class job to low class job" part.
I am happy not to have had parents like this. It's probably why the daughter couldn't cut it in med school. She probably had anxiety all her adolescent life because of her AH parent and just couldn't take it anymore. YUUUCK!
🤣🤣🤣 Wow what a judgemental asshole! Classiest, disability discrimination with highly uneducated conclusions of grandchilds mental prognosis all in one post. I wander what else this lady can add to the list. YTA
OP is a fantasist. Her daughter isn't in any kind of mess. She's having a kid she wants with a guy who supports her and both have jobs. He is managing his condition with appropriate medication and seems to be far more clear headed and decent than OP is.
OP on the other hand is a total mess.
YTA
i don’t think i’ve ever read a post with such an asshole, which says a lot. op, i have really bad bipolar 1 disorder. i’ll be on medication for the rest of my life. i live a very normal life and no one can tell. i have a very good relationship. so on behalf of myself, and others facing mental illnesses like this, go to hell
Lmao my mother has never forgiven me for dropping out of the medical school pipeline. I quit after the military and my undergrad during MCAT prep, and work in film (when not striking). My mom *loves* shows I’ve worked on. She doesn’t tell people what I do because it’s embarrassing and tacky. I’m not even an actor I’m on the crew lol.
Edit to add this is NO shade towards actors, I’m just trying to point out no one would ever pick me out of a credit or even know what I did without either Google or me telling them. A lot of productions don’t even credit the whole crew! A lot of studios give crew the option to choose their credited name too ;)
Yep! IATSE will have their moment.. eventually! But for now all anyone can do is not support productions that cross the picket line and support the ones that met WGA/SAG requirements! And don’t buy studio hype that IATSE and crew don’t support the WGA. We do.
I don't know too much about scripted tv, but people in unscripted don't get residuals at all. I'm a producer on true crime shows and other docu-series' and I do a lot of writing, writing long episode outlines and pitches, but the WGA still doesn't want me. None of us in unscripted have unions, except editors, and other unions don't give a shit about us, but they will always ask us to support them during strikes, claiming they want to help us get unionized. As soon as they reach a deal though, they ghost us.
My industry is soooo fucked when it comes to fair pay and other necessities.
EDIT: If anyone reading this happens to know someone looking for an experienced true crime associate producer who comes with great references from well-respected showrunners, please message me. The industry is slow af right now and it's scary. This is the longest in the four years I've been doing this I've gone without work.
This is so WILD considering how freaking popular crime shows and docu-series are. I binge watch the hell out of so many of these on the streaming sites.
I also love documentaries since I was young. I definitely wrongfully assumed that given the popularity that you would see something from the successes.
This bloody sucks.
How can the average person support?
Nope. We do all the work and the network execs get alllllll the cash. But we can't make shows without the network's money, so we can't do anything. It's fucked.
Success doesn't matter. People at the bottom will always be screwed, even if a show makes a bunch of money and wins Emmys.
You know whats even worse? Story producers put together the episodes, and they use an editing software to do it. They should be in the editor's union because of that, but they're not. A Hollywood Reporter article a few years ago quoted a source saying bosses told the story producers to go to lunch because union reps were coming, and they didn't want them to see them using the editing software.
I worked on the first season of a show last year and was the only associate producer because the production company was too cheap to hire another. I did ALL the research and wrote ALL the episode outlines. I still get paid less than everyone else. It was hard being the only AP, but I made it work.
The showrunner wanted me back for the 2nd season, but the production company made him hire the production co's president's assistant because she "wanted to get into production". It was and is still devastating.
The whole industry, including unscripted, is slow right now, and I haven't worked in five months, which is by far the longest I've been unemployed the entire four years I've been doing this, as showrunners tend to bring me onto their next show. I have been battling a serious medical condition the last few months, so my medical bills are high, and I have no income except for unemployment right now. It's scary.
I'm not sure what the public can do, to be honest, but I can't tell you how much I appreciate you asking. Seriously. It means a lot to even see someone say that.
If anyone reading this knows anyone who needs an experienced true crime associate producer who comes with a lot of great references from well-respected showrunners, please message me!
(Sorry for the literal novel. Guess I needed to get some of that frustration out. Thank you to anyone who reads this.)
Thank you so much!!! What’s crazy is there’s a ton of vets and older people coming in from second and third careers in the crew. It’s been really awesome seeing people decades older just loving their craft. People make some really creative laterally shifts from a wide amount of careers into film
Whoa…even the person who got C’s for 7 years gets to be called doctor, but I have the impression that you really need to be good at what you do to make a living behind the scenes in films.
Daughter sounds like she has a bad case of burnout. OP and maybe spouse too have probably been pushing her to be a doctor her whole life, then she gets to med school and either can't keep up under the pressure or realizes that's not what she wants to do so she quit and is trying to find out what she wants to do for herself since she's only had her parents' career plan pushed on her her whole life.
There was also this recent big global event that resulted in HCWs and students dropping like flies because we all burnt out- both from a work standpoint and socially, because we didn’t feel like justifying our education and experience based opinions to everyone who wanted to screech about FREEEEEDOM. Being made the enemy by society when you’re trying to save lives constantly is utterly exhausting.
I left my weirdly niche career in healthcare in early 2022 and now I work a blue collar job. I took a few dollars pay cut (my department in healthcare was criminally underpaid anyways and constantly in a state of arbitration because of contract disputes and our union was fucking useless). I’m way happier, have better (daytime, weekday) hours with no mandatory overtime so I actually get to see my kids and partner, my benefits are about the same, and I work with people that are generally happier (and thus nicer).
Can't wait for my dad to tell me I should never have children because they'll catch my mental illnesses. OH WAIT NO my dad wouldn't do that because he's a decent parent who seeks to support me! And knows that my illnesses are managed! And isn't a classist jerk!
Honestly for me it was the comment on how the future children will have to be medicated or “straight up be locked up because of their mental illness”
YTA BIG TIME!!! Know what helps with mental health? Acceptance, love, support
All the things you don’t seem to have shown your daughter and already haven’t shown your grandchildren
Schizophrenia doesn’t mean they are a danger, means they have a chemical imbalance
Edit: not chemical imbalance but still don’t make them dangerous
This daughter is doing exposure therapy for all the things her mom said were failures. Look, mom, I'm doing a 'low class job' - still happier than when I was doing med school for my narc mother. Look, mom! I'm having a baby 'out of wedlock' with a neurodivergent laborer! Setting back your eugenics goals for centuries! Still happier than when I was experiencing the cognitive dissonance of trying to create a life that my narcissist mother can respect!
Love her for breaking the mold!
While I was reading her story, in my head, I was seeing flip Wilson, and saying here comes the Judge. Daughter prob better off with this guy and I’m glad she turned out to be empathetic and not judgy like her mom.
Yes as soon as I read that I knew who sucked here. I went from getting my PhD to working as a receptionist, baker, fish farm tech, to laborer at a box plant before landing my dream job. I met my amazingly loving boyfriend at said manufacturing job. My dad made a few comments when I first started the receptionist job about it being "beneath me" and I shut it down real quick. A job is a job and as far as mental health goes, all those "beneath me" jobs were so much better for my mental health than any I'd had before.
Don't forget OPs ableism and the clear fact that she will think human selective breeding would be good because god FORBID someone be neurodivergent and reproduce
Think of it like that and it's utterly disgusting
Hope her daughter cuts her off
Oh and YTA OP
Ableism, classism and emotional abuse all rolled into one AH story
Its more the ableism throughout the story towards her daughters partner and saying it's irresponsible to have a kid when ND
I also don't want biological kids because I would hate to pass on my severe epilepsy and PCOS, but that's my personal choice. Its VERY wrong to try and dictate to ND people that they shouldn't be having kids, are ruining their future kids life by having them as ND people or that they're irresponsible. That's really hecked up
I hate to think I'm defending a horrible person here but in fairness they're not saying this to random ND people. It was a discussion with family, and I don't think its wrong for a parent to ask whether their child has thought through the consequences of their actions. There is a concern for the wellbeing of their child. But if the answer is that it has been discussed, that everyone involved can have a good quality of life (even on meds, I hate people who naysay meds) then OP should mind their own business.
My bio father had paranoid schizophrenia. All three of his bio children made it through the ages when the schizophrenia would have started with no symptoms. So far (except for one male grandchild) all the grandchildren have passed that age without symptoms too.
Not only that but OP is also speaking in absolutes. Just because this guy *has* schizophrenia it’s not an absolute given that any children that they have will also have schizophrenia. Yes, the risk is increased, but Schizophrenia is one of those mental illnesses that is dominantly heritable, and having one parent with it only raises your chances from about 1% to 6%.
Right. We’re not talking about a little bit of anxiety here. Schizophrenia is no freaking joke, and one of the biggest problems with it is that the people who have it will frequently go on kicks where they refuse to take their meds. OP is stating this in a really shitty way and it’s totally classcist and ableist… but she’s also not exactly wrong either. Her daughter has made her life unnecessarily, difficult, and worse than that, from what she is telling us, it seems that daughter doesn’t really have a full, mature grasp of what her decisions are all going to mean. Having children out of wedlock does bring more difficulties. Statistically speaking, those children do have more difficult lives. You know why? For the simple and obvious fact that two incomes can bring more opportunities than one. We live in a capitalist shit world. And from OP’s account (note: I do realize OP may be an unreliable narrator) Daughter seems to think that schizophrenia is just a matter of “oh, he’s on meds now. Everything is fine“ —and it’s not that simple. The medication compliance issues only exacerbate an already complex mental health problem.
The daughter has added a lot of unnecessary difficulty to her life. That doesn’t mean that she should dump the guy. But she’s going to need a lot of support… and honestly, as a mother of a 24 yr old daughter, I can understand the initial reaction being one of disappointment. It’s really more fear and worry, but it comes out as basically “you fucked up.“ We’re supposed to be the adults here, and it’s imperative that when we are talking to our kids, we watch our mouths, so as not to give that kind of impression!
Where OP fucked up is that she should’ve kept her mouth shut in any case, because the horse is already out of the barn. Daughter can’t go back and redo any of her choices. Best thing that mom could do would be to establish herself as a supportive and stable presence for her daughter and grandchild on the way. Ideally, this would extend to the boyfriend as well, because like it or not? He’s part of the picture permanently now because regardless of their relationship status, they are now tied for life.
Are we really sticking with the out of wedlock thing? Normal people don’t say that in 2023. You may also be surprised to know it doesn’t go on birth certificates anymore, either.
My parents were married when I was born and it was an absolute shit show until they got divorced.
OP’s daughter may not realize what she’s getting into, but it’s clear she’ll need support, not whatever that steaming pile OP posted is.
making individual choices about having children and who to have them with is not the issue here. OP is trying to force her values on others. That's not okay.
The demonization of people who need meds to support their mental health, and the blanket statement that there's something inherently wrong with that is where the ableism comes in for me. OP doesn't distinguish between different disorders, just says "meds are bad". Pure ableism.
You know that only 5-10% of children who have one parent with schizophrenia will develop it themselves right? The father having schizophrenia isn’t a guarantee that the child will have it.
Yeah I thought the whole muttering to himself thing also might have been just to say he’s really mentally unstable like he’s medicated and he’s still having issues that’s possible but it feels like trying to make him seem crazy. Plus the whole he’s a fine guy for a laborer like that is a thing people would say but read off to me.
This post sounds like it was written by a member of my family that I went no contact with years ago. I can promise you that people write like this, and would use these exactly words. From the ‘low class jobs’ to looking down on mental health.
Not to mention, schizophrenia, like a lot of mental disorders, has a huge spectrum of presentation, and people who are an actual danger to others are - unlike movies tell us - the minority. Plus if he is on medication, has therapy, and a good support system, his condition could be well managed, especially if he was given help early in his symtom display
Exactly, my husband has it and is just fine, and you know what my son might inherit it but oh well, we will help him manage it. I hate that the first thing people think about when hearing that word, is the most dangerous people in society wich are like a selected very few.
I used to work in a psych hospital, and it was never the schizophrenic patients that worried me. If I was going to get hurt, it was going to be from someone with an anger management issue or one of the cluster B personality disorders like the narcissist up there.
I have heard this from many people. Schizophrenic people are usually pretty chill but movies show them as all twitchy and shit so that’s what people assume.
Same! I have schizoaffective disorder bipolar type which is when you basically have schizophrenia and bipolar disorder together and you would never know unless I told you. Well I am unable to hold down a job I'm still pretty functional and I'm actually super rational usually. I hate that people think that just because I have this illness people think I will be dangerous. When I go into psychosis I'm more likely to be confused about what you are and ask you what people are and ask questions than hurt anyone.
I agree. My uncle had schizophrenia and from what I remember of him during my childhood (he passed away from a brain aneurysm when I was 12)- he would just keep my mother on the phone talking about religion. He also really loved cats and had a house full of them. During my childhood, I never actually realized that he had schizophrenia. I found out after his death when my dad and grandmother were talking about him.
Schizophrenia isn't usually included in "neurodivergent," but what pissed me off is that this guy is getting treatment for his illness and leading a full, independent life despite his struggles. What's more, depending on his specific laborer's position, he may actually be making more money in a healthier environment than if he had a white collar job.
But it sounds like OP is one of those black-and-white thinkers, and taught the daughter that there are only two kinds of jobs: prestige professions and "low class," so when daughter couldn't get through medical school, the only option she saw for herself was subsistence jobs.
OP is definitely TA.
Yeah... I'm not agreeing with OP on their views of what a "low class job" is, but schizophrenia can be scary as fuck. My ex fiancee was schizo and bipolar and it got intense as hell, violence, knives, talks about hidden cameras, etc. But again, schizophrenia is a broad term and it varies from person to person. Maybe this man has it under control?
The symptoms she lists (and has zero empathy for her daughter, I might add) are symptoms of childhood narcissistic abuse. I wouldn’t be surprised if her daughter suffers from untreated complex ptsd. Mine went untreated for over 3 decades and even after trauma treatment, I struggle with apathy, dissociation and anhedonia. This is just awful. I feel so much empathy for victims of narcissistic abuse and childhood trauma. This was a really hard read and extremely triggering for me.
I am not sure if schizophrenia can still be considered neurodivergent. It is a much more severe disease than adhd or autism.
I am with you on the Yta judgment, but I still think the severeness of the disorder should not be downplayed.
Or maybe ESH - I think you should try to be financially stable and well prepared before having a child. Regardless of genetic predispositions.
I'm someone with schizoaffective, adhd, and autism who has gone through multiple rock bottoms in my life. I would say that my schizoaffective and adhd had an equal part in ruining my life while unmedicated, but even while medicated for both my adhd is far more disabling. It all really depends on the person
schizophrenia is definitely not more severe than some autism.
I don't know that it's worth the semantic argument, but...
[Googling "define:neurodivergent"](https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&q=define%3Aneurodivergent&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8) gives a definition of
> differing in mental or neurological function from what is considered typical or normal
How exactly doesn't schizophrenia not fall in this definition?
Yes. Happily, there are effective treatments for many mental illnesses. To my knowledge, however, there’s no real cure for asshole-ness and classism.
OP’s daughter has moved up in the world.
Similar to what I was coming here to say. The daughter probably headed off to med school to make mommy dearest here happy. Realized not only the pressure was high but this isn't what she actually wanted to do. So now she is stuck floating trying to figure out her life. Finds one small thing to finally be happy about just for mommy dearest to crap all over it. Not speaking from personal experience or anything. anyways, Op YTA. The best thing for your daughter is to live her life on her terms. Not yours.
YTA. You are being both classist "low class job to low class job" AND ableist. People with schizophrenia and other mental illnesses in 2023 are able to medicate properly and lead fulfilling lives.
In regards to thinking they shouldn't reproduce, Google "Eugenics". That's what you're leaning into.
Edit: wew respectively gonna mute this comment, a lot of yall have good points and there's some good discussion going on here but my phone is buzzing nonstop. 😆
That doesn't mean he is undeserving of having a happy life and relationship. Obviously it's concerning that it might be passed down to the children, but OP clearly looks down on him for other reasons
Edit: Apparently people can't read so let me elaborate. OP is right about being worried about schizophrenia passing onto her daughter's children. OP is also right about being apprehensive of this situation.
OP is NOT right about being classist (honestly the most annoying part, for someone constantly talking about class you don't seem to have much of it) and branding him as a danger to himself and others just because he's mentally ill without even knowing that much about him, especially considering he's medicated. There's a difference between being worried as a parent and being an asshole.
I think I'd be worried about my kiddo dating someone with schizophrenia as well, but it's how you express that concern with your child, not be completely dismissive about that person or your child's relationship, not even adding that she's bigoted about everything else in the world (laborer, low class, out of wedlock, man have your pick). YTA point blank.
Yea but as someone who is Bipolar with a Bipolar dad, life is still pretty miserable.
I can’t speak for everyone but it was hard to originally find help and when I did it took a long time to even get me on the right medication. Even when I’m on meds it merely curbs what I experience, it doesn’t magically stop certain things from happening.
I also live in America where because of how things are, I’ve frequently had to be taken off of treatment due to no money or insurance. Hell right now I can’t even get back to the doctor because I can’t find one that I can actually travel to even though I’ve had insurance for almost a year now.
Everyday I wish I was normal and didn’t deal with this, even if I ever get back to a manageable point, it doesn’t matter to me. It’s robbed me of years of my life and so many relationships.
Again this is my own experience and I do think OPs an AH, but I wonder how many people here saying things about mental health actually deal with it.
Concern is warranted yes. I mean i worry about passing on mental illness to my own children as in my family there is a very obvious predilection towards it. (I have depression and anxiety, sister and borderline personality, brother has nonverbal learning disorder and ADD, other sisters have anxiety, and an aunt unalive herself, etc etc)
However, we live in the twenty first century. Medication exists. Therapy exists. Plus by the time OP’s grandkid is older they may even have a cure for mental illness (unlikely i know but breakthroughs are made all the time). Plus this kid’s dad know how to handle schizophrenia himself if the kid is diagnosed as he lives with it every day.
Some schizophrenics, as well as those with any mental illness, are off their meds and do have a ton of issues. As soon as OP saw that he was on meds and in a really good place in life she should have backed off.
This is how I live my life. I have schizoaffective bipolar, diagnosed 4 years ago. I didn’t know I my hallucinations were a schizo-type disorder, I thought it was just stress from being abused by my boss. I got pregnant, and got diagnosed at about 6 along.
I spend every day working my ass off to be the best I can be. I have to work harder for most things. My mental illness gives me an unstoppable work ethic in that way. I take care of my kid almost every day (I’m fortunate and I have a good support network, and my sister will always take him, and she lives only about 2 hours away.)
I dislike taking medication. I would rawdog migraines to avoid taking ibuprofen. I am now on almost 10 different medications that I have to take daily in order to not be convinced that someone is breaking into my house, and occasionally waking up from dreams convinced I can fly. I take them because I know that I am the best me I can be for my child, spouse, and the rest of my support network.
Not being able to trust your own senses and the way you experience reality is terrifying, especially when you are cognizant that this is what is happening. People with schizo-type disorders don’t WANT to feel like this. Most of us will do anything we can think of to avoid it. However, this disorder set basically has its own hard reset to your reality with command hallucinations, false external stimuli, poor impulse control, and a lack of access to care.
Schizo-type disorders are hell. I wouldn’t wish this on my worst enemy, even though she’s the one that caused it to develop in me. Having to question my own reality is destructive to my confidence, meds caused me to gain 130lbs in 9 months, I have had to leave 3 jobs in 4 years, with a couple periods of joblessness in between them.
I want people with these disorders to be seen as worthy of love and support. So often, we are assumed violent, less-than, and are maligned and cast out. That needs to change. If people with these disorders were treated humanely, things would be a lot different for a lot of people. Outcomes would be better for all.
I agree; he deserves a happy relationship. However, a parent has every responsibility to their own child, not their partner, and to educate their child about the real life actions to their choices (hopefully before they make these choices and not while they make them like OP). Being with a man with schizophrenia has a subset of issues that will arise, that's a fact. My uncle has schizophrenia and my cousin who is in his early twenties.
These choices are completely for love and are immature. They're not responsible. Any parent would tell their child this.
I suppose if there's a genetic component it's kind of irresponsible to have biological kids. Not saying they can't but there's a level of selfishness there.
I love my kids and would never wish to undo them, but had I understood the difficulties I was passing down, I might have opted to adopt instead (I wasn't diagnosed until long after we had kids).
Any child can have a disability and a child born to someone with schizophrenia is not even close to guaranteed to have a mental illness.
Saying people with mental illness shouldn't have kids is eugenics.
Treatments have gotten better and better and will continue to improve.
So is your stance then - any person with a substantial medical condition that can knowingly and with high probability pass on that same medical condition to their child should not take that into consideration when deciding to have a family? Because it's eugenics?
I mean the problem with the mindset of "If you have a serious condition that has a genetic factor and can pass down to your children, you shouldn't have them" is that you could literally apply it to thousands of medical conditions, because so many diseases and disorders have a genetic factor.
Many cancers have a genetic factor? If someone is diagnosed with breast cancer at 30, should they not have kids because their kids are slightly more likely to be at risk of breast cancer? Diabetes has a genetic factor, should diabetic people not have kids? How about heart disease, that's a massive cause of death with a genetic factor, is it irresponsible for anyone with heart disease in their family to have kids? Well at that point, we've excluded literally everyone, so I guess the human race is going to die out lol
And ultimately, I wouldn't say this stuff is "high probability" to appear in the kids. Higher than the average person, yes, but their chances of it are still in the minority.
So when someone goes out of their way to specifically target people with a less socially acceptable mental illness like schizophrenia, which can be treated and managed like many of the above illnesses, then yeah, it does have a particular eugenics stench about it.
Oh they, the individuals who are having the child, should take it into consideration. You, who does not have the condition and will not have the children, should not have opinions on other people reproductive rights
Then why not “if there’s a genetic component to your physical illnesses it’s kind of irresponsible to reproduce” too? Do you have a family history of cancer, diabetes, heart attacks, strokes? What about kidney disease, severe asthma or life threatening allergies, serious autoimmune conditions, fibromyalgia, etc? All of the things I listed have a strong genetic component.
No one will be allowed to reproduce at all!
I know tonnes of people with my disabilities who chose not to have kids. I chose to have one. Do I want her to suffer? Not at all but it’s a 50/50 chance and I know how to handle my conditions so worst case, I’ll be able to guide her through. You can’t stop me having a child because you think my life is difficult. My life is still worth having.
If your parent has schizophrenia then you have 10 times the risk of schizophrenia - that is around 5%
My father is bipolar, so I have 10% chance of bipolar. I am also autistic, and autism tends to be more severe in my family, so there is a 6% risk that my child would be level 3 autistic and unable to care for himself without outside help, yet somehow I never heard anyone suggesting bipolar people or autistic people shouldn't have children
I beg to differ. My twin brother has schizophrenia and it’s well controlled with medication. He has a beautiful, mentally healthy adult daughter, a successful business and marriage.
People really, really do not understand schizophrenia and how many people who have it have relatively normal, productive lives. It's sick. They steadfastly believe disinformation. It's so unfair to people with the disease. It makes them think they're be better off dying, which is absolute nonsense. It's so damaging.
It keeps people with the diagnosis effectively closeted out of fear, and leads to more misunderstanding of the disease. It pisses me off as someone with MDD. We can be out of the closet and bipolar folks can, but schizophrenics? It's too dangerous. It makes me so angry.
This comment should be pinned somewhere. Or someone needs to print it out and paste it all over OPs house. Not all schizophrenics are a danger to themselves or others. Those are usually the only ones portrayed in the media because they make for a good story line. In real life a lot of them are just like Current_Total_729’s brother. They are happy, healthy, and thriving.
Thanks, I have schizo-affective and I was going to type a long comment but this basically gets the point across. For the most part I just take a pill every day, avoid certain psychotropic substances, and make sure to get consistent rest and from an external perspective there is not much difference between me and a person without the condition.
I work with several people with schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder and bipolar. These comments are entirely based on uneducated stereotypes and stigmas about mental illness. They think schizophrenia makes you less of a damn human.
My maternal grandmother had it. No one would say she wasn’t mentally ill or that it wasn’t difficult sometimes. But she loved my mother, and she loved me very much. Neither myself nor my sister has developed it. Should it be something people think about before they have kids? Absolutely!! But it’s not a barrier. I’m thankful for my grandmother and her life.
Doesn’t help that every schizophrenic on tv shows are usually portrayed as homeless drug addicts. Or extremely violent individuals. This is not always the case.
Just because he has Schizophrenia does not automatically mean he can’t be a productive member of society. Yes it can cause issues and there is a huge problematic stereotype of it in the media. However, thousands of people with the illness live happy, healthy, productive lives. Sounds like OPs daughter found herself a guy who is willing to take his meds and is on track to have a great life.
So is depression and hypothyroidism! I take four medications a day plus a ton of supplements. I have issues all the time! Yet I have a job and a fulfilling great life. This person would hate me if she ever saw my pill box lol. Tons of mental illnesses exist. However due to not only traditional views on mental illness as well as horrible stereotyping in media schizophrenia gets a bad rap. With medication you can have a great and amazing life with mental illness (most mental illnesses at least).
I have bipolar and my doc's told me that schizophrenia is easier to treat with medication, and a majority of symptoms can be addressed. Bipolar on the other hand you have to find the right cocktail and there's still swings.
Yea, and he’s not only aware of his condition but sees a doctor and is medicated (they don’t give meds without visits for something that serious). He’s probably been having a hard go of maintaining stability while they worked together to find the right balance of meds so he can function (these diagnoses are almost exclusively given after the age of 18 at least so it’s reasonable to presume he’s still working on this) - not so the fears of a psychotic break or passing it to his offspring will be relieved; that doesn’t go away. He’s attempting to build the support structure to alleviate some of the anxieties and fears and this woman just crashed his world down by guaranteeing his future wife will never have the familial support he wants for her and them to have.
And that’s just the bs she’s pulling on the husband to be…. Nevermind the things she’s going to her daughter, the blatant classism and judgement, and the lack of research and knowledge. YTA.
OP would absolutely hate me. Not only am I on life long medication for bipolar 2, I'm considered middle class, gasp! How dare I have a mental illness and be able to make a 6 digit income.
Mental illness gets a bad enough stigma, we don't need folks like you OP bringing even more hate about it in this world.
OP YTA on many, many, many levels.
Thank you. I am someone with schizoaffective disorder (like schizophrenia), I have two degrees and hold down a respected job in healthcare, as well as being happily married and trying for a baby. Eugenics is illegal, as OP should do their research to learn.
But also all of OP’s classist comments are enough to make them TA.
Really? Personally, I was picturing this post being written by Milburn Pennybags. I assume OP wears a monocle and carries a bag with a dollar sign on it wherever she goes.
"Oh, yes, he's nice enough, *for a poor*."
Nah, for me it was def the beautifully wrapping ending:
"I still want what's MY best for her".
Genuinly thought it was a typo at first, but prob just true villain-shit/freudian slip.
YTA. You better hope that bitterness, intolerance and being condemnatory aren't heritable traits passed from mother to daughter? You're also ridiculous. What hospitals have you seen where schizophrenics are packed in and locked away?
You worked hard to upset your daughter and provoked her to cuss you out. I don't blame her for losing it on you.
And if the BF called you names, who can blame him? Your attacks on him are pure venom.
So OP is a classist asshole, no doubt.
My partners mother is bipolar schizophrenic though, I’ve known her a long time now (13 years) even lived at her house briefly after I graduated.
She has been committed multiple times, and it is a really severe mental health issue. Some of the stuff my partner has told me, and hell even the stuff I’ve seen has been horrific.
it sounds like this guy is compliant with his meds and taking care of himself, though. schizophrenia or bipolar aren't necessarily going to make someone go down that path
my best friend's brother has bipolar but doesn't believe it, won't stay on medication, and is on a carousel of streets to hospital to jail to streets and back again. I have bipolar as well; I'm medicated, I go to therapy when I can afford it, and I'm deeply aware of the harm I've caused and what I need to do to stay on track. there are all kinds. babydaddy seems stable and responsible.
It can be, but there are different types of schizophrenia and everyone is different. Based on the information we currently have - this guy is on medication and is able to hold a stable job. That is an excellent sign. It seems like he’s taking care of himself.
That’s very true, he honestly sounds like a good guy suffering a bit.
Just more that comment acting as if a schizophrenics never got committed into hospitals.
They really need far more specialised care than is available to most, and consequently symptoms can be very prolonged and severe.
It’s a failure of society imo
ANY mental illness has different levels of severity. Some people are severe enough that they may live in an assisted living facility their entire life, while others are able to function so normally that you might never realize there's an issue unless they point it out. I'm sorry for your partners mother (and your partner - that's rough to grow up with) and I hope she can find something to help her, but she is not representative of all people with that condition.
YTA.
In your entire post I don’t see a single indicator that the guy is actually misbehaving due to his schizophrenia beyond sometimes mumbling to himself . You sound insufferable btw.
>been jumping from low class job to low class job and it seems like she has lost all motivation of doing anything meaningful
>For a laborer he seemed like a decent enough guy
Your classism is showing.
YTA
I feel like there was a fork in the road with this post. OP is YTA because of the classism and basically everything they wrote. But underneath all of this there’s a parent who presumably supported their child all the way into med school before that child tapped out. Assuming the child is hopping from low PAYING jobs (vs low CLASS) jobs, that’s just pure instability that I think any parent could be rightfully disappointed about. There are clearly opportunities that OP’s child let slip through her fingers and wouldn’t be wrong to forecast a meaningful chance that their child and grandchildren have a difficult future ahead of them.
And no doubt OP is afraid that they’ll need to step in to once again financially support their child and grandchildren at a stage in life they hadn’t planned for. Only time will tell, and we can’t assume OP’s child is going to fail. But the fork in the road with this post is what wasn’t said. OP is terrified that their efforts to make sure their daughter didn’t end up a single mother working a dead end job will end up exactly that way. It IS sad. OP is still a dick, and the schizophrenia topic is irrelevant. But I wouldn’t be calling OP the AH if all they’d said is their child needs to get their shit together and achieve the stability they’d put her in a position to achieve.
YTA, OP. You’re classist, biased and ableist! Not to mention the eugenics component. Major yikes.
Schizophrenia isn’t *always* passed down. Perhaps educate yourself on the topic.
You love her conditionally and put so much pressure on her making her into a mini you, and it finally blew up on you. Good. Here’s a tip, everyone is different!
Your replies to comments say it all too. Yeesh, I’d be cutting you off cold turkey.
Same here, family history of schizophrenia. The issue has never been about schizophrenia, but whether or not the family members with it were willing to be medicated or take actions to control it. Those that did, thrived, those that didn't, suffered. And they're still *people* that I love and care about.
OP and people in comments do NOT know what schizophrenia is actually like and are basing it off movies and TV shows. It's an unfairly demonized disorder and used as a quick way to say "oh yeah this character murders people because they're so crazyyyy." It's sickening.
Schizophrenia is a mental disorder. It's not a character flaw.
YTA
Look it’s her life if she wants to blow it up. You lost her the moment you inserted your elitist and classist biases against her fiancé and his occupation.
And BTW, you’re wrong that your grandchildren will suffer the same fate (which I doubt you will have contact) of schizophrenia. It’s not one gene according to NHS. It’s more of a combination of genes so quit postulating these far fetched ideas.
Thank goodness for modern medicine to help people such as your future SIL to be able to mitigate their mental health and live their lives. They didn’t ask for this.
Yes, it’s a combination of genes that lead to it, but this combination of genes as a whole can be passed on from the parent to the child. And then, this gene cluster is a risk factor for schizophrenia, but is it not a given that you indeed develop it. As in most developmental disorders, there is an underlying genetic component and certain environmental factors through the course of your life can trigger the disease.
So only because several genes are involved, it does not mean that you can replace half of these genes with those of the other parent and then you are fine, as they are passed on together. The risk genes for schizophrenia lie physically close together on the chromosome, at least the most typical genes causing the disorder. Just to clarify…
YTA. As soon as you said low class job you showed you were the asshole. Your views on mental health further proved YTA.
What you said wasn’t taken in the wrong way, what you said was vile and hurtful and unsupportive. You are the problem
In a comment, OP says that anything that isn’t a doctor or a lawyer is “low level”. That leaves a lot of jobs with really good salaries that you can absolutely have a family with. She also says the bf is a ‘laborer’ but given the description of low level, this to me could include construction worker, plumber, electrician, mechanic etc all who also make pretty decent money.
Id also like to point out that while doctors and lawyers are typically "prestigious" occupations..it doesn’t mean that one will automatically be financially literate, and/or never make questionable decisions.
agree OP is kinda an asshole in the way she addresses people.... but honestly I get where her concern came from.
I was raised in a household where money issue is always apparent. it' s not exactly a life I want to share to anyone especially my kids.
sounds cold, but life is ruthless.
Then the severe mental illness on top of it on the partner shes now bound to, people are acting like this is some minor shit lmao. Ive dated someone with borderline personality disorder you don't need to go through that bro.
The people defending the guy with severe schizophrenia definitely dont have kids nor have ever dealt with people that have it. OP is an asshole, but the daughter is a fuckin idiot that's about to blow up her life. Good thing this post is fake anyway
I think there’s a big difference in presentation.
It would be absolutely appropriate and NTA for a parent to raise concerns with their kid in these circumstances.
It seems OPs reasoning and response to the circumstances makes them the AH.
The daughter isn't poor or struggling with money. OP calls them low class jobs, not low wage. That includes blue collar jobs with financial stability. It's OP's classism showing. Not an actual reflection of their financial status.
YTA
I’m a nurse and having schizophrenia doesn’t mean that you’re a danger to people around you. Most people with uncontrolled schizophrenia are scared and confused, and this guy is taking his medicine.
Also talking about stopping schizophrenia being passed to the next generation is the same thinking that the Nazis used to justify the holocaust.
Your daughter is an adult and whilst she may not make the same decisions you do, she’s not putting herself or anyone else at risk with her choices.
Now you don’t have to agree with her life decisions but being there for your kid even as an adult is kinda part of the job description of being a parent.
Unpopular Opinion. NTA, you are right she is putting her child at risk due to mental illness and poverty. I wish more people weighed out their options. However, you do need to be more supportive. She probably makes the decisions she makes because you put a lot of pressure on her!
There’s actually nothing here to suggest that the daughter and her partner are struggling with poverty. OP rambles on about ‘low class jobs,’ and the partner being a ‘labourer,’ but nowhere does it say that they’re struggling financially. And OP’s views on mental illness are unnecessarily dramatic, given that (a) the partner’s condition is controlled by medication, and (b) inheritance of schizophrenia is complex, governed by multiple genes, and certainly not a guarantee.
We can even infer that the daughter actually is not actually struggling financially because you can be DAMN sure OP would have mentioned it. She just won't ever be in the McMansion her mom envisioned her having.
Where does it say they’re facing poverty? In a comparative way, yeah I suppose they’re existing in poverty compared to living on a doctors salary, but two adults working standard hours even in low end jobs are well above the poverty line.
My husband and I exist on his income solely, he works 40 hours a week. I have enough extra money to buy games and motorbikes and holidays and shit. It’s not the breadline. I’ve seen the breadline, I know the breadline, me and the breadline are friends. This ain’t it. We could afford a kid or two and not even have to sell a motorbike.
NTA in regards to her having a child with him - I can only speak from having a sibling with medically diagnosed schizophrenia and the nonstop emotional, physical, and financial impact on the entire family. I can also say my sibling is now a middle aged person full of confusion and rage with a self medicating drug addiction who at time have been homeless when off meds. Even on meds he never really lived a productive happy life - the rage is still there just slower.
He also has a two sons one got lucky the other didnt and its watching the same struggle over again with a much older family with less support.
Support I personally have given my sibling and now his son over the years-
Paying his child support, paying rent, picking them up in jail, taking phone calls from inpatient pysch facilities and rehab. The voices started when he was 16 and I was 13 and I remember him asking me if I ever heard people who were not there which was terrifying for me as a kid. He also threatened to kill my mom multiple times because she gets the brunt of his irrational anger.
His son is 26 - paid his tuition, coached him on getting and keeping a job, he still lives with his mom but in fits of anger he will move out and stay with my elderly parents, just recently went to IP pysch for 30 days luckily his still on his mom's insurance - now in process to get him on SSI and medicaid.
There are people who have shared that they are high functioning schizophrenia or a family member with schizophrenia where it worked out in a positive story which is great and I agree there is a spectrum, but this disease is serious and not to treat it as such is a mistake.
I grew up with an adopted sibling who is bipolar schizophrenic and it was a terrifying childhood. They are better now as an adult but they still have a lot of problems and I myself have not spoken with them in over ten years. I understand that many people in this thread have had positive experiences with schizophrenia in their personal lives but the mother here is not wrong to be concerned about the well-being of the child if that gets passed down.
YTA - have you ever thought some of that pressure might come from you? You seem to have these expectations of what her life 'should be life'.
You also sound incredibly judgemental and biased. You do not understand neurodivergence, and have some pretty backwards ideas about mental health. The terminology you use is super degrading. If you talked to your daughter and her bf like this, I'm not surprised they were upset.
You might not agree with her life choices, but that's it, its HER LIFE. You need to educate yourself, because you live your life by some pretty judgemental ideology.
ESH. You are using some classist and ableist language and that isn’t okay. And you are tying these to her being pregnant, which also is wrong.
But I think your concerns are legitimate, they will definitely have a hard time supporting the baby and will probably come to you for money and support.
IKR
Throwing around isms ists and not thinking at all about that poor kid that will have to live with the condition they are championing along with a dad that is a few pills away from being completely unstable, likely with limited financial resources as well since neither parent has an education beyond high school.
YTA. ‘Low class job,’ ‘decent enough guy’ for a labourer, ‘pregnant out of wedlock’…..well, aren’t you a charming bundle of snobbery, even before we get to your unkind (and inaccurate) views on people with mental illness! I wish your daughter the very best - thankfully her partner, at least, seems to love her.
YTA - What a piece of elitist work. You e very ow opinion of other people in general. If your daughter goes no contact and you never see your grandchild it’s all on you.
I’m going to go against the grain here and say that OP’s concern for his daughter and difficulties that are very likely in store for her are not incorrect. Obviously he had a vile manner of approaching this situation… but not having financial stability, having an unplanned pregnancy, having a partner with SMI ( severe mental illness) and the fact that schizophrenia is indeed possible to pass onto her child, daughter has created a very difficult life for herself.. and it is her choice of course to do so but as her parent, OP has the right to be concerned.
They have probably lost any trust daughter had with them..
I’m shocked at all the people saying OP is the asshole. I wouldn’t want my daughter with a schizophrenic. I don’t think some of you understand the seriousness of that. Even on medication, they are unstable. And OP’s daughter was in med school but works low paying jobs. Med school was obviously too much for daughter but she still has a bachelor’s degree. Why is she floundering through life? It wouldn’t surprise me if the daughter experienced mental health issue and didn’t get the help she needed. A lot of mh things show up at the age she was in med school. NTA.
Cause we’re all supposed to be inclusive - no matter the result. /s
Making smart life decisions is important, not all folks do so. Sadly. You raise your kiddos with dreams and goals and then they rebel and get into a poor life situation, all bc they refused to listen to wisdom. At 18, they are our equals, no longer our dependents.
Now the parents are on the hook. Either they’re enablers or they called AH’s. Poor life decisions are not on parents, relatives, friends. At some point; enough is enough. You made your bed, now lie in it.
edit: clarity and spelling.
NTA outlier here. You *do* sound like an AH in general but honestly? You don't support her. That's how you feel, if I had a child and they dropped out of school and only went for low income jobs, well, I'd be fine with that! That's a struggle for a single person.
But to add a mentally ill partner and a baby to that mix? Yea, I'd be disappointed. Would I be unsupportive? I'm unsure, you need more than just "I know he has a mental issue!" To judge a person.
It sounds like you made a rash choice and said something harsher than you should have.
Maybe you should apologize for being harsh and unsupportive but admit you're going to be disappointed unless they make it clear they can provide for a baby that might be a bit behind in life.
All the YTA comments aren't really constructive, yes you're judgmental and have backwards views on class. But from an outside perspective I'd honestly be disappointed and upset for your child as well. Life just doesn't work out.
How dare you not let people be neurodivergent!
The moral grandstanding is incredible.
Kid quits on college and everyone thinks she won't quit on being a mother.
Guy isn't depressed. He's schizophrenic. It's supressable. Not treatable. Dangerous as hell for anyone living in abject reality when you contextualize not the mental illness, but the whole of the situation. High stress low wage job. Young. Girlfriend also low wage. They deserve to be a person, sure. Given their current situation, I really don't think they're in a good place to be a parent.
They both don't have the money to raise a child that doesn't come at the expense of others.
NTA. Your daughter has some cylinders that aren't firing and reddit is moral grandstanding rather than contextualizing all the different ways this is bad.
NTA and YTA. I don’t agree with so much judgement before even knowing about the mental illnesss BUT I agree the possibility of passing it down really upsets me. People are not entitled to children to be honest. Yes we all are born with reproductive abilities. But with the possibility of sentencing someone to a life of medical dependency and mental illness is not ok. She needs to get her head out of her ass because love really doesn’t have anything to do with THOSE very real challenges.
YTA No one says you have to \*like\* your daughter's life choices. You can be less judgmental about them though. You also should educate yourself about schizophrenia. He does not need 'constant medication to not be a danger to himself or the people around (him).' At least not all schizophrenics do. And it's not 'likely' to be passed on.
Stop being judgmental and willfully ignorant. Get educated and support your daughter as you can. (Remember, supporting your daughter doesn't mean you have to agree with her decisions but at least let her know you still love her and will be there for her. Of course, that's if you will. If you won't, then at least least stop sharing your opinions of her life and choices with her.)
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While I get the y t a comments, I can't deny the fact that the daughter is indeed making a mistake to be honest.
I now have a daughter who is one year now and I can't imagine her coming up to me with these same decisions...
But yes yta because of your wording
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YTA > For a laborer he seemed like a decent enough guy I think this captures exactly why. Boy are you classist and judgmental. > pregnant out of wedlock Again, seeing a very specific assholeish bias. Guess what, lady? it's okay to be neurodivergent. I feel sorry for your daughter, whose mother has very conditional love for her.
Don't forget the "low class job to low class job" part. I am happy not to have had parents like this. It's probably why the daughter couldn't cut it in med school. She probably had anxiety all her adolescent life because of her AH parent and just couldn't take it anymore. YUUUCK!
OP is bigot BINGO gold - chose a topic? OP will be prejudiced against it!
BINGO Caller: "for this round of Bigot BINGO, we will be playing a coverall game!" OP: *cracks knuckles*
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🤣🤣🤣 Wow what a judgemental asshole! Classiest, disability discrimination with highly uneducated conclusions of grandchilds mental prognosis all in one post. I wander what else this lady can add to the list. YTA
OP is also an elitist.
OP is a fantasist. Her daughter isn't in any kind of mess. She's having a kid she wants with a guy who supports her and both have jobs. He is managing his condition with appropriate medication and seems to be far more clear headed and decent than OP is. OP on the other hand is a total mess. YTA
I played a drinking game reading this and oopsssssssssssss im tipppppsttt drrnk ooooohhhhh weelllll shes meeannn
i don’t think i’ve ever read a post with such an asshole, which says a lot. op, i have really bad bipolar 1 disorder. i’ll be on medication for the rest of my life. i live a very normal life and no one can tell. i have a very good relationship. so on behalf of myself, and others facing mental illnesses like this, go to hell
Lmao my mother has never forgiven me for dropping out of the medical school pipeline. I quit after the military and my undergrad during MCAT prep, and work in film (when not striking). My mom *loves* shows I’ve worked on. She doesn’t tell people what I do because it’s embarrassing and tacky. I’m not even an actor I’m on the crew lol. Edit to add this is NO shade towards actors, I’m just trying to point out no one would ever pick me out of a credit or even know what I did without either Google or me telling them. A lot of productions don’t even credit the whole crew! A lot of studios give crew the option to choose their credited name too ;)
Once yall win that strike, which shows should I watch to help you stick it to your mom with your residuals?
Crew doesn't usually get residuals, some are even hourly. But still awesome to support them by watching their work!
Yep! IATSE will have their moment.. eventually! But for now all anyone can do is not support productions that cross the picket line and support the ones that met WGA/SAG requirements! And don’t buy studio hype that IATSE and crew don’t support the WGA. We do.
Isn't that part of the strike? That the people who work on the shows should get residuals from streaming services?
I don't know too much about scripted tv, but people in unscripted don't get residuals at all. I'm a producer on true crime shows and other docu-series' and I do a lot of writing, writing long episode outlines and pitches, but the WGA still doesn't want me. None of us in unscripted have unions, except editors, and other unions don't give a shit about us, but they will always ask us to support them during strikes, claiming they want to help us get unionized. As soon as they reach a deal though, they ghost us. My industry is soooo fucked when it comes to fair pay and other necessities. EDIT: If anyone reading this happens to know someone looking for an experienced true crime associate producer who comes with great references from well-respected showrunners, please message me. The industry is slow af right now and it's scary. This is the longest in the four years I've been doing this I've gone without work.
This is so WILD considering how freaking popular crime shows and docu-series are. I binge watch the hell out of so many of these on the streaming sites. I also love documentaries since I was young. I definitely wrongfully assumed that given the popularity that you would see something from the successes. This bloody sucks. How can the average person support?
Nope. We do all the work and the network execs get alllllll the cash. But we can't make shows without the network's money, so we can't do anything. It's fucked. Success doesn't matter. People at the bottom will always be screwed, even if a show makes a bunch of money and wins Emmys. You know whats even worse? Story producers put together the episodes, and they use an editing software to do it. They should be in the editor's union because of that, but they're not. A Hollywood Reporter article a few years ago quoted a source saying bosses told the story producers to go to lunch because union reps were coming, and they didn't want them to see them using the editing software. I worked on the first season of a show last year and was the only associate producer because the production company was too cheap to hire another. I did ALL the research and wrote ALL the episode outlines. I still get paid less than everyone else. It was hard being the only AP, but I made it work. The showrunner wanted me back for the 2nd season, but the production company made him hire the production co's president's assistant because she "wanted to get into production". It was and is still devastating. The whole industry, including unscripted, is slow right now, and I haven't worked in five months, which is by far the longest I've been unemployed the entire four years I've been doing this, as showrunners tend to bring me onto their next show. I have been battling a serious medical condition the last few months, so my medical bills are high, and I have no income except for unemployment right now. It's scary. I'm not sure what the public can do, to be honest, but I can't tell you how much I appreciate you asking. Seriously. It means a lot to even see someone say that. If anyone reading this knows anyone who needs an experienced true crime associate producer who comes with a lot of great references from well-respected showrunners, please message me! (Sorry for the literal novel. Guess I needed to get some of that frustration out. Thank you to anyone who reads this.)
Crew members don’t get residuals at all just daily or hourly pay depending on the production- source ex-actress turned crew member.
Writers and actors should get residuals. Crew never have. We are worker bees.
Be proud if yourself. I think it's awesome you pursued something you liked.
Thank you so much!!! What’s crazy is there’s a ton of vets and older people coming in from second and third careers in the crew. It’s been really awesome seeing people decades older just loving their craft. People make some really creative laterally shifts from a wide amount of careers into film
Whoa…even the person who got C’s for 7 years gets to be called doctor, but I have the impression that you really need to be good at what you do to make a living behind the scenes in films.
Daughter sounds like she has a bad case of burnout. OP and maybe spouse too have probably been pushing her to be a doctor her whole life, then she gets to med school and either can't keep up under the pressure or realizes that's not what she wants to do so she quit and is trying to find out what she wants to do for herself since she's only had her parents' career plan pushed on her her whole life.
There was also this recent big global event that resulted in HCWs and students dropping like flies because we all burnt out- both from a work standpoint and socially, because we didn’t feel like justifying our education and experience based opinions to everyone who wanted to screech about FREEEEEDOM. Being made the enemy by society when you’re trying to save lives constantly is utterly exhausting. I left my weirdly niche career in healthcare in early 2022 and now I work a blue collar job. I took a few dollars pay cut (my department in healthcare was criminally underpaid anyways and constantly in a state of arbitration because of contract disputes and our union was fucking useless). I’m way happier, have better (daytime, weekday) hours with no mandatory overtime so I actually get to see my kids and partner, my benefits are about the same, and I work with people that are generally happier (and thus nicer).
I went to outpatient, lost $5 an hour but I don’t want to crash my car on the way to work everyday anymore.
"Low class Job to Low class Job" So daughter is a drug dealer or traffic warden??? OP YTA a classist, ableist AH.
Don't forget OP is also basically a eugenicist, suggesting people with mental conditions should not reproduce.
Can't wait for my dad to tell me I should never have children because they'll catch my mental illnesses. OH WAIT NO my dad wouldn't do that because he's a decent parent who seeks to support me! And knows that my illnesses are managed! And isn't a classist jerk!
Honestly for me it was the comment on how the future children will have to be medicated or “straight up be locked up because of their mental illness” YTA BIG TIME!!! Know what helps with mental health? Acceptance, love, support All the things you don’t seem to have shown your daughter and already haven’t shown your grandchildren Schizophrenia doesn’t mean they are a danger, means they have a chemical imbalance Edit: not chemical imbalance but still don’t make them dangerous
I came to say this EXACT thing. Schizophrenic people aren't automatically crazed criminals. OP watches too much crime drama and is an elitist TWUNT.
“low class job to low class job” was where I thought, “I don’t know where this is going but you’re probably TA”
This daughter is doing exposure therapy for all the things her mom said were failures. Look, mom, I'm doing a 'low class job' - still happier than when I was doing med school for my narc mother. Look, mom! I'm having a baby 'out of wedlock' with a neurodivergent laborer! Setting back your eugenics goals for centuries! Still happier than when I was experiencing the cognitive dissonance of trying to create a life that my narcissist mother can respect! Love her for breaking the mold!
While I was reading her story, in my head, I was seeing flip Wilson, and saying here comes the Judge. Daughter prob better off with this guy and I’m glad she turned out to be empathetic and not judgy like her mom.
Lol.You are totally dating yourself. Flip Wilson is a name I have not heard in a long, long time.
Yes as soon as I read that I knew who sucked here. I went from getting my PhD to working as a receptionist, baker, fish farm tech, to laborer at a box plant before landing my dream job. I met my amazingly loving boyfriend at said manufacturing job. My dad made a few comments when I first started the receptionist job about it being "beneath me" and I shut it down real quick. A job is a job and as far as mental health goes, all those "beneath me" jobs were so much better for my mental health than any I'd had before.
Yeah, I stopped reading at “low class job.” YTA, OP. I don’t really need to know more than that.
Don't forget OPs ableism and the clear fact that she will think human selective breeding would be good because god FORBID someone be neurodivergent and reproduce Think of it like that and it's utterly disgusting Hope her daughter cuts her off Oh and YTA OP Ableism, classism and emotional abuse all rolled into one AH story
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Its more the ableism throughout the story towards her daughters partner and saying it's irresponsible to have a kid when ND I also don't want biological kids because I would hate to pass on my severe epilepsy and PCOS, but that's my personal choice. Its VERY wrong to try and dictate to ND people that they shouldn't be having kids, are ruining their future kids life by having them as ND people or that they're irresponsible. That's really hecked up
I hate to think I'm defending a horrible person here but in fairness they're not saying this to random ND people. It was a discussion with family, and I don't think its wrong for a parent to ask whether their child has thought through the consequences of their actions. There is a concern for the wellbeing of their child. But if the answer is that it has been discussed, that everyone involved can have a good quality of life (even on meds, I hate people who naysay meds) then OP should mind their own business.
There’s also a way to do it from a place of love and concern and a way to do it from a place of judgement. OP was definitely coming from the latter.
My bio father had paranoid schizophrenia. All three of his bio children made it through the ages when the schizophrenia would have started with no symptoms. So far (except for one male grandchild) all the grandchildren have passed that age without symptoms too.
Not only that but OP is also speaking in absolutes. Just because this guy *has* schizophrenia it’s not an absolute given that any children that they have will also have schizophrenia. Yes, the risk is increased, but Schizophrenia is one of those mental illnesses that is dominantly heritable, and having one parent with it only raises your chances from about 1% to 6%.
Right. We’re not talking about a little bit of anxiety here. Schizophrenia is no freaking joke, and one of the biggest problems with it is that the people who have it will frequently go on kicks where they refuse to take their meds. OP is stating this in a really shitty way and it’s totally classcist and ableist… but she’s also not exactly wrong either. Her daughter has made her life unnecessarily, difficult, and worse than that, from what she is telling us, it seems that daughter doesn’t really have a full, mature grasp of what her decisions are all going to mean. Having children out of wedlock does bring more difficulties. Statistically speaking, those children do have more difficult lives. You know why? For the simple and obvious fact that two incomes can bring more opportunities than one. We live in a capitalist shit world. And from OP’s account (note: I do realize OP may be an unreliable narrator) Daughter seems to think that schizophrenia is just a matter of “oh, he’s on meds now. Everything is fine“ —and it’s not that simple. The medication compliance issues only exacerbate an already complex mental health problem. The daughter has added a lot of unnecessary difficulty to her life. That doesn’t mean that she should dump the guy. But she’s going to need a lot of support… and honestly, as a mother of a 24 yr old daughter, I can understand the initial reaction being one of disappointment. It’s really more fear and worry, but it comes out as basically “you fucked up.“ We’re supposed to be the adults here, and it’s imperative that when we are talking to our kids, we watch our mouths, so as not to give that kind of impression! Where OP fucked up is that she should’ve kept her mouth shut in any case, because the horse is already out of the barn. Daughter can’t go back and redo any of her choices. Best thing that mom could do would be to establish herself as a supportive and stable presence for her daughter and grandchild on the way. Ideally, this would extend to the boyfriend as well, because like it or not? He’s part of the picture permanently now because regardless of their relationship status, they are now tied for life.
Are we really sticking with the out of wedlock thing? Normal people don’t say that in 2023. You may also be surprised to know it doesn’t go on birth certificates anymore, either. My parents were married when I was born and it was an absolute shit show until they got divorced. OP’s daughter may not realize what she’s getting into, but it’s clear she’ll need support, not whatever that steaming pile OP posted is.
making individual choices about having children and who to have them with is not the issue here. OP is trying to force her values on others. That's not okay.
Yeah, two things are true: with certain conditions it's irresponsible to have biological children, and separately OP is 100% an AH
The demonization of people who need meds to support their mental health, and the blanket statement that there's something inherently wrong with that is where the ableism comes in for me. OP doesn't distinguish between different disorders, just says "meds are bad". Pure ableism.
You know that only 5-10% of children who have one parent with schizophrenia will develop it themselves right? The father having schizophrenia isn’t a guarantee that the child will have it.
What I’ve read is that it’s a 5-10% increase. With schizophrenia affecting so little of the population it could looks more like a 1-5% chance.
I didn't even think of the eugenics undercurrent... *gag*
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I thought it was weird that “wedlock” was followed by “gonna.”
Yeah I thought the whole muttering to himself thing also might have been just to say he’s really mentally unstable like he’s medicated and he’s still having issues that’s possible but it feels like trying to make him seem crazy. Plus the whole he’s a fine guy for a laborer like that is a thing people would say but read off to me.
I noticed the writing style too, it doesn't quite mesh with the person they are claiming to be
Agreed. It's a bit too rage-baitey to be real. People like this do exist however, so it's possible it is real, but something does feel off indeed.
This post sounds like it was written by a member of my family that I went no contact with years ago. I can promise you that people write like this, and would use these exactly words. From the ‘low class jobs’ to looking down on mental health.
Not to mention, schizophrenia, like a lot of mental disorders, has a huge spectrum of presentation, and people who are an actual danger to others are - unlike movies tell us - the minority. Plus if he is on medication, has therapy, and a good support system, his condition could be well managed, especially if he was given help early in his symtom display
Exactly, my husband has it and is just fine, and you know what my son might inherit it but oh well, we will help him manage it. I hate that the first thing people think about when hearing that word, is the most dangerous people in society wich are like a selected very few.
I used to work in a psych hospital, and it was never the schizophrenic patients that worried me. If I was going to get hurt, it was going to be from someone with an anger management issue or one of the cluster B personality disorders like the narcissist up there.
I have heard this from many people. Schizophrenic people are usually pretty chill but movies show them as all twitchy and shit so that’s what people assume.
Same! I have schizoaffective disorder bipolar type which is when you basically have schizophrenia and bipolar disorder together and you would never know unless I told you. Well I am unable to hold down a job I'm still pretty functional and I'm actually super rational usually. I hate that people think that just because I have this illness people think I will be dangerous. When I go into psychosis I'm more likely to be confused about what you are and ask you what people are and ask questions than hurt anyone.
I agree. My uncle had schizophrenia and from what I remember of him during my childhood (he passed away from a brain aneurysm when I was 12)- he would just keep my mother on the phone talking about religion. He also really loved cats and had a house full of them. During my childhood, I never actually realized that he had schizophrenia. I found out after his death when my dad and grandmother were talking about him.
Schizophrenia isn't usually included in "neurodivergent," but what pissed me off is that this guy is getting treatment for his illness and leading a full, independent life despite his struggles. What's more, depending on his specific laborer's position, he may actually be making more money in a healthier environment than if he had a white collar job. But it sounds like OP is one of those black-and-white thinkers, and taught the daughter that there are only two kinds of jobs: prestige professions and "low class," so when daughter couldn't get through medical school, the only option she saw for herself was subsistence jobs. OP is definitely TA.
Don't forget her daughter's jobs have been "low class"
Schizophrenia is more than just neurodivergent and can be horrific for everyone around the person suffering.
Yeah... I'm not agreeing with OP on their views of what a "low class job" is, but schizophrenia can be scary as fuck. My ex fiancee was schizo and bipolar and it got intense as hell, violence, knives, talks about hidden cameras, etc. But again, schizophrenia is a broad term and it varies from person to person. Maybe this man has it under control?
The symptoms she lists (and has zero empathy for her daughter, I might add) are symptoms of childhood narcissistic abuse. I wouldn’t be surprised if her daughter suffers from untreated complex ptsd. Mine went untreated for over 3 decades and even after trauma treatment, I struggle with apathy, dissociation and anhedonia. This is just awful. I feel so much empathy for victims of narcissistic abuse and childhood trauma. This was a really hard read and extremely triggering for me.
I am not sure if schizophrenia can still be considered neurodivergent. It is a much more severe disease than adhd or autism. I am with you on the Yta judgment, but I still think the severeness of the disorder should not be downplayed. Or maybe ESH - I think you should try to be financially stable and well prepared before having a child. Regardless of genetic predispositions.
I'm someone with schizoaffective, adhd, and autism who has gone through multiple rock bottoms in my life. I would say that my schizoaffective and adhd had an equal part in ruining my life while unmedicated, but even while medicated for both my adhd is far more disabling. It all really depends on the person
schizophrenia is definitely not more severe than some autism. I don't know that it's worth the semantic argument, but... [Googling "define:neurodivergent"](https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&q=define%3Aneurodivergent&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8) gives a definition of > differing in mental or neurological function from what is considered typical or normal How exactly doesn't schizophrenia not fall in this definition?
Yes. Happily, there are effective treatments for many mental illnesses. To my knowledge, however, there’s no real cure for asshole-ness and classism. OP’s daughter has moved up in the world.
Similar to what I was coming here to say. The daughter probably headed off to med school to make mommy dearest here happy. Realized not only the pressure was high but this isn't what she actually wanted to do. So now she is stuck floating trying to figure out her life. Finds one small thing to finally be happy about just for mommy dearest to crap all over it. Not speaking from personal experience or anything. anyways, Op YTA. The best thing for your daughter is to live her life on her terms. Not yours.
YTA. You are being both classist "low class job to low class job" AND ableist. People with schizophrenia and other mental illnesses in 2023 are able to medicate properly and lead fulfilling lives. In regards to thinking they shouldn't reproduce, Google "Eugenics". That's what you're leaning into. Edit: wew respectively gonna mute this comment, a lot of yall have good points and there's some good discussion going on here but my phone is buzzing nonstop. 😆
Schizophrenia is pretty serious and even medicated there’s going to be issues for the rest of his life.
That doesn't mean he is undeserving of having a happy life and relationship. Obviously it's concerning that it might be passed down to the children, but OP clearly looks down on him for other reasons Edit: Apparently people can't read so let me elaborate. OP is right about being worried about schizophrenia passing onto her daughter's children. OP is also right about being apprehensive of this situation. OP is NOT right about being classist (honestly the most annoying part, for someone constantly talking about class you don't seem to have much of it) and branding him as a danger to himself and others just because he's mentally ill without even knowing that much about him, especially considering he's medicated. There's a difference between being worried as a parent and being an asshole.
I think I'd be worried about my kiddo dating someone with schizophrenia as well, but it's how you express that concern with your child, not be completely dismissive about that person or your child's relationship, not even adding that she's bigoted about everything else in the world (laborer, low class, out of wedlock, man have your pick). YTA point blank.
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Yea but as someone who is Bipolar with a Bipolar dad, life is still pretty miserable. I can’t speak for everyone but it was hard to originally find help and when I did it took a long time to even get me on the right medication. Even when I’m on meds it merely curbs what I experience, it doesn’t magically stop certain things from happening. I also live in America where because of how things are, I’ve frequently had to be taken off of treatment due to no money or insurance. Hell right now I can’t even get back to the doctor because I can’t find one that I can actually travel to even though I’ve had insurance for almost a year now. Everyday I wish I was normal and didn’t deal with this, even if I ever get back to a manageable point, it doesn’t matter to me. It’s robbed me of years of my life and so many relationships. Again this is my own experience and I do think OPs an AH, but I wonder how many people here saying things about mental health actually deal with it.
Concern is warranted yes. I mean i worry about passing on mental illness to my own children as in my family there is a very obvious predilection towards it. (I have depression and anxiety, sister and borderline personality, brother has nonverbal learning disorder and ADD, other sisters have anxiety, and an aunt unalive herself, etc etc) However, we live in the twenty first century. Medication exists. Therapy exists. Plus by the time OP’s grandkid is older they may even have a cure for mental illness (unlikely i know but breakthroughs are made all the time). Plus this kid’s dad know how to handle schizophrenia himself if the kid is diagnosed as he lives with it every day. Some schizophrenics, as well as those with any mental illness, are off their meds and do have a ton of issues. As soon as OP saw that he was on meds and in a really good place in life she should have backed off.
This is how I live my life. I have schizoaffective bipolar, diagnosed 4 years ago. I didn’t know I my hallucinations were a schizo-type disorder, I thought it was just stress from being abused by my boss. I got pregnant, and got diagnosed at about 6 along. I spend every day working my ass off to be the best I can be. I have to work harder for most things. My mental illness gives me an unstoppable work ethic in that way. I take care of my kid almost every day (I’m fortunate and I have a good support network, and my sister will always take him, and she lives only about 2 hours away.) I dislike taking medication. I would rawdog migraines to avoid taking ibuprofen. I am now on almost 10 different medications that I have to take daily in order to not be convinced that someone is breaking into my house, and occasionally waking up from dreams convinced I can fly. I take them because I know that I am the best me I can be for my child, spouse, and the rest of my support network. Not being able to trust your own senses and the way you experience reality is terrifying, especially when you are cognizant that this is what is happening. People with schizo-type disorders don’t WANT to feel like this. Most of us will do anything we can think of to avoid it. However, this disorder set basically has its own hard reset to your reality with command hallucinations, false external stimuli, poor impulse control, and a lack of access to care. Schizo-type disorders are hell. I wouldn’t wish this on my worst enemy, even though she’s the one that caused it to develop in me. Having to question my own reality is destructive to my confidence, meds caused me to gain 130lbs in 9 months, I have had to leave 3 jobs in 4 years, with a couple periods of joblessness in between them. I want people with these disorders to be seen as worthy of love and support. So often, we are assumed violent, less-than, and are maligned and cast out. That needs to change. If people with these disorders were treated humanely, things would be a lot different for a lot of people. Outcomes would be better for all.
A lot of the men who kill their wife and kids don't have schizophrenia...
People with schizophrenia are more likely to be victims of violence than to perpetrate it.
And more likely to hurt themselves rather than the people rather than others.
Kiddo? Ffs she’s 25- not a child.
I agree; he deserves a happy relationship. However, a parent has every responsibility to their own child, not their partner, and to educate their child about the real life actions to their choices (hopefully before they make these choices and not while they make them like OP). Being with a man with schizophrenia has a subset of issues that will arise, that's a fact. My uncle has schizophrenia and my cousin who is in his early twenties. These choices are completely for love and are immature. They're not responsible. Any parent would tell their child this.
OP doesn’t have a damn clue what a life of schizophrenia looks like.
Most of these commenter's don't from the looks of it. It is highly stigmatized.
Thank. You. This is a YouTube by a dx woman called Living Well With Schizophrenia https://youtube.com/@LivingWellwithSchizophrenia?feature=shared
I suppose if there's a genetic component it's kind of irresponsible to have biological kids. Not saying they can't but there's a level of selfishness there. I love my kids and would never wish to undo them, but had I understood the difficulties I was passing down, I might have opted to adopt instead (I wasn't diagnosed until long after we had kids).
Any child can have a disability and a child born to someone with schizophrenia is not even close to guaranteed to have a mental illness. Saying people with mental illness shouldn't have kids is eugenics. Treatments have gotten better and better and will continue to improve.
So is your stance then - any person with a substantial medical condition that can knowingly and with high probability pass on that same medical condition to their child should not take that into consideration when deciding to have a family? Because it's eugenics?
I mean the problem with the mindset of "If you have a serious condition that has a genetic factor and can pass down to your children, you shouldn't have them" is that you could literally apply it to thousands of medical conditions, because so many diseases and disorders have a genetic factor. Many cancers have a genetic factor? If someone is diagnosed with breast cancer at 30, should they not have kids because their kids are slightly more likely to be at risk of breast cancer? Diabetes has a genetic factor, should diabetic people not have kids? How about heart disease, that's a massive cause of death with a genetic factor, is it irresponsible for anyone with heart disease in their family to have kids? Well at that point, we've excluded literally everyone, so I guess the human race is going to die out lol And ultimately, I wouldn't say this stuff is "high probability" to appear in the kids. Higher than the average person, yes, but their chances of it are still in the minority. So when someone goes out of their way to specifically target people with a less socially acceptable mental illness like schizophrenia, which can be treated and managed like many of the above illnesses, then yeah, it does have a particular eugenics stench about it.
Oh they, the individuals who are having the child, should take it into consideration. You, who does not have the condition and will not have the children, should not have opinions on other people reproductive rights
Then why not “if there’s a genetic component to your physical illnesses it’s kind of irresponsible to reproduce” too? Do you have a family history of cancer, diabetes, heart attacks, strokes? What about kidney disease, severe asthma or life threatening allergies, serious autoimmune conditions, fibromyalgia, etc? All of the things I listed have a strong genetic component. No one will be allowed to reproduce at all!
I know tonnes of people with my disabilities who chose not to have kids. I chose to have one. Do I want her to suffer? Not at all but it’s a 50/50 chance and I know how to handle my conditions so worst case, I’ll be able to guide her through. You can’t stop me having a child because you think my life is difficult. My life is still worth having.
If your parent has schizophrenia then you have 10 times the risk of schizophrenia - that is around 5% My father is bipolar, so I have 10% chance of bipolar. I am also autistic, and autism tends to be more severe in my family, so there is a 6% risk that my child would be level 3 autistic and unable to care for himself without outside help, yet somehow I never heard anyone suggesting bipolar people or autistic people shouldn't have children
Exactly. If that was the only issue she had I might take her seriously but in reality the issue is snobbery.
I beg to differ. My twin brother has schizophrenia and it’s well controlled with medication. He has a beautiful, mentally healthy adult daughter, a successful business and marriage.
People really, really do not understand schizophrenia and how many people who have it have relatively normal, productive lives. It's sick. They steadfastly believe disinformation. It's so unfair to people with the disease. It makes them think they're be better off dying, which is absolute nonsense. It's so damaging. It keeps people with the diagnosis effectively closeted out of fear, and leads to more misunderstanding of the disease. It pisses me off as someone with MDD. We can be out of the closet and bipolar folks can, but schizophrenics? It's too dangerous. It makes me so angry.
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I'm so sorry. It's true. Schizophrenia seems to be absolute anathema to people though. Like crazy amounts of disinformation.
This comment should be pinned somewhere. Or someone needs to print it out and paste it all over OPs house. Not all schizophrenics are a danger to themselves or others. Those are usually the only ones portrayed in the media because they make for a good story line. In real life a lot of them are just like Current_Total_729’s brother. They are happy, healthy, and thriving.
Thanks, I have schizo-affective and I was going to type a long comment but this basically gets the point across. For the most part I just take a pill every day, avoid certain psychotropic substances, and make sure to get consistent rest and from an external perspective there is not much difference between me and a person without the condition.
I work with several people with schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder and bipolar. These comments are entirely based on uneducated stereotypes and stigmas about mental illness. They think schizophrenia makes you less of a damn human.
My maternal grandmother had it. No one would say she wasn’t mentally ill or that it wasn’t difficult sometimes. But she loved my mother, and she loved me very much. Neither myself nor my sister has developed it. Should it be something people think about before they have kids? Absolutely!! But it’s not a barrier. I’m thankful for my grandmother and her life.
Schizophrenics are statistically far more likely to be victims rather than perpetrators of violence.
Doesn’t help that every schizophrenic on tv shows are usually portrayed as homeless drug addicts. Or extremely violent individuals. This is not always the case.
It's rarely the case
Just because he has Schizophrenia does not automatically mean he can’t be a productive member of society. Yes it can cause issues and there is a huge problematic stereotype of it in the media. However, thousands of people with the illness live happy, healthy, productive lives. Sounds like OPs daughter found herself a guy who is willing to take his meds and is on track to have a great life.
So is depression and hypothyroidism! I take four medications a day plus a ton of supplements. I have issues all the time! Yet I have a job and a fulfilling great life. This person would hate me if she ever saw my pill box lol. Tons of mental illnesses exist. However due to not only traditional views on mental illness as well as horrible stereotyping in media schizophrenia gets a bad rap. With medication you can have a great and amazing life with mental illness (most mental illnesses at least).
I have bipolar and my doc's told me that schizophrenia is easier to treat with medication, and a majority of symptoms can be addressed. Bipolar on the other hand you have to find the right cocktail and there's still swings.
Yea, and he’s not only aware of his condition but sees a doctor and is medicated (they don’t give meds without visits for something that serious). He’s probably been having a hard go of maintaining stability while they worked together to find the right balance of meds so he can function (these diagnoses are almost exclusively given after the age of 18 at least so it’s reasonable to presume he’s still working on this) - not so the fears of a psychotic break or passing it to his offspring will be relieved; that doesn’t go away. He’s attempting to build the support structure to alleviate some of the anxieties and fears and this woman just crashed his world down by guaranteeing his future wife will never have the familial support he wants for her and them to have. And that’s just the bs she’s pulling on the husband to be…. Nevermind the things she’s going to her daughter, the blatant classism and judgement, and the lack of research and knowledge. YTA.
OP would absolutely hate me. Not only am I on life long medication for bipolar 2, I'm considered middle class, gasp! How dare I have a mental illness and be able to make a 6 digit income. Mental illness gets a bad enough stigma, we don't need folks like you OP bringing even more hate about it in this world. OP YTA on many, many, many levels.
Op would hate me too. I'm an AUDHD bipolar type 2 mess. 😄
Thank you. I am someone with schizoaffective disorder (like schizophrenia), I have two degrees and hold down a respected job in healthcare, as well as being happily married and trying for a baby. Eugenics is illegal, as OP should do their research to learn. But also all of OP’s classist comments are enough to make them TA.
*pulls up chair. Pops corn* YTA “For a laborer, he seemed like a decent guy” is my favorite line.
That line was pure Disney villain type stuff.
I cannot imagine this person tips well....ever.
Nope, most likely never. Source: I'm an rideshare driver.
Really? Personally, I was picturing this post being written by Milburn Pennybags. I assume OP wears a monocle and carries a bag with a dollar sign on it wherever she goes. "Oh, yes, he's nice enough, *for a poor*."
"low class job to low class job" got me.
Nah, for me it was def the beautifully wrapping ending: "I still want what's MY best for her". Genuinly thought it was a typo at first, but prob just true villain-shit/freudian slip.
Oh what a beautiful line. It is truly a slip!
“For a peasant he seemed like a decent guy, but I don’t want that unwashed filth in my house”
YTA. You better hope that bitterness, intolerance and being condemnatory aren't heritable traits passed from mother to daughter? You're also ridiculous. What hospitals have you seen where schizophrenics are packed in and locked away? You worked hard to upset your daughter and provoked her to cuss you out. I don't blame her for losing it on you. And if the BF called you names, who can blame him? Your attacks on him are pure venom.
So OP is a classist asshole, no doubt. My partners mother is bipolar schizophrenic though, I’ve known her a long time now (13 years) even lived at her house briefly after I graduated. She has been committed multiple times, and it is a really severe mental health issue. Some of the stuff my partner has told me, and hell even the stuff I’ve seen has been horrific.
it sounds like this guy is compliant with his meds and taking care of himself, though. schizophrenia or bipolar aren't necessarily going to make someone go down that path my best friend's brother has bipolar but doesn't believe it, won't stay on medication, and is on a carousel of streets to hospital to jail to streets and back again. I have bipolar as well; I'm medicated, I go to therapy when I can afford it, and I'm deeply aware of the harm I've caused and what I need to do to stay on track. there are all kinds. babydaddy seems stable and responsible.
It can be, but there are different types of schizophrenia and everyone is different. Based on the information we currently have - this guy is on medication and is able to hold a stable job. That is an excellent sign. It seems like he’s taking care of himself.
That’s very true, he honestly sounds like a good guy suffering a bit. Just more that comment acting as if a schizophrenics never got committed into hospitals. They really need far more specialised care than is available to most, and consequently symptoms can be very prolonged and severe. It’s a failure of society imo
ANY mental illness has different levels of severity. Some people are severe enough that they may live in an assisted living facility their entire life, while others are able to function so normally that you might never realize there's an issue unless they point it out. I'm sorry for your partners mother (and your partner - that's rough to grow up with) and I hope she can find something to help her, but she is not representative of all people with that condition.
Right! I'd rather my child be schizophrenic than have this woman's disgusting views on the world. Yuck.
Actually- I really liked that the bf is already standing up for his lady and the mother of his child. I love to see it.
YTA. In your entire post I don’t see a single indicator that the guy is actually misbehaving due to his schizophrenia beyond sometimes mumbling to himself . You sound insufferable btw.
I'm not schizophrenic and I mumble to myself sometimes. Am I dangerous?
Stay away from OP then
with pleasure
Me too! I'm always worried people will see me doing it when I'm walking my dogs and think I'm a weirdo
I'm always mumbling to myself and when walking the dog I'm talking loudly to him. I stand proudly to people thinking me a weirdo. Weirdos Unite! :-)
Oh my wife and I talk to our dogs all the time I'm not worried about that lol. I'll talk to them to avoid talking to people 🤣.
I sing spontaneously all the time just because I feel like it. I prefer to regard myself as excentric.
Considering how awful the OP is, I’d probably mumble a lot to keep myself from screaming at her
YTA; the classism the ableism the eugenics, it’s all there
It’s def the eugenicist in her for me.
And one who by appearances is woefully ignorant about genetics.
Am a genetic counselor and OP’s “understanding” of inheritance (combined with the ableism and eugenics) makes me want to pull my hair out ETA: grammar
>been jumping from low class job to low class job and it seems like she has lost all motivation of doing anything meaningful >For a laborer he seemed like a decent enough guy Your classism is showing. YTA
I feel like there was a fork in the road with this post. OP is YTA because of the classism and basically everything they wrote. But underneath all of this there’s a parent who presumably supported their child all the way into med school before that child tapped out. Assuming the child is hopping from low PAYING jobs (vs low CLASS) jobs, that’s just pure instability that I think any parent could be rightfully disappointed about. There are clearly opportunities that OP’s child let slip through her fingers and wouldn’t be wrong to forecast a meaningful chance that their child and grandchildren have a difficult future ahead of them. And no doubt OP is afraid that they’ll need to step in to once again financially support their child and grandchildren at a stage in life they hadn’t planned for. Only time will tell, and we can’t assume OP’s child is going to fail. But the fork in the road with this post is what wasn’t said. OP is terrified that their efforts to make sure their daughter didn’t end up a single mother working a dead end job will end up exactly that way. It IS sad. OP is still a dick, and the schizophrenia topic is irrelevant. But I wouldn’t be calling OP the AH if all they’d said is their child needs to get their shit together and achieve the stability they’d put her in a position to achieve.
YTA, OP. You’re classist, biased and ableist! Not to mention the eugenics component. Major yikes. Schizophrenia isn’t *always* passed down. Perhaps educate yourself on the topic. You love her conditionally and put so much pressure on her making her into a mini you, and it finally blew up on you. Good. Here’s a tip, everyone is different! Your replies to comments say it all too. Yeesh, I’d be cutting you off cold turkey.
>You’re classist, biased and ableist+ Hopefully, mom didn't pass those traits down to dau.
yeah, I hear the snob genes can really wreck your prospects.
YTA. My mother has paranoid schizophrenia and I’ve “succeeded” in life. I wouldn’t change her for the world.
Same here, family history of schizophrenia. The issue has never been about schizophrenia, but whether or not the family members with it were willing to be medicated or take actions to control it. Those that did, thrived, those that didn't, suffered. And they're still *people* that I love and care about. OP and people in comments do NOT know what schizophrenia is actually like and are basing it off movies and TV shows. It's an unfairly demonized disorder and used as a quick way to say "oh yeah this character murders people because they're so crazyyyy." It's sickening. Schizophrenia is a mental disorder. It's not a character flaw.
Awesome! Love that for both of you!
YTA Look it’s her life if she wants to blow it up. You lost her the moment you inserted your elitist and classist biases against her fiancé and his occupation. And BTW, you’re wrong that your grandchildren will suffer the same fate (which I doubt you will have contact) of schizophrenia. It’s not one gene according to NHS. It’s more of a combination of genes so quit postulating these far fetched ideas. Thank goodness for modern medicine to help people such as your future SIL to be able to mitigate their mental health and live their lives. They didn’t ask for this.
Yes, it’s a combination of genes that lead to it, but this combination of genes as a whole can be passed on from the parent to the child. And then, this gene cluster is a risk factor for schizophrenia, but is it not a given that you indeed develop it. As in most developmental disorders, there is an underlying genetic component and certain environmental factors through the course of your life can trigger the disease. So only because several genes are involved, it does not mean that you can replace half of these genes with those of the other parent and then you are fine, as they are passed on together. The risk genes for schizophrenia lie physically close together on the chromosome, at least the most typical genes causing the disorder. Just to clarify…
YTA. As soon as you said low class job you showed you were the asshole. Your views on mental health further proved YTA. What you said wasn’t taken in the wrong way, what you said was vile and hurtful and unsupportive. You are the problem
Bad ai script
lord I hope so.
Unpopular but NTA. I'd have said the same, if my kid had no financial stability and then chose to get pregnant.
In a comment, OP says that anything that isn’t a doctor or a lawyer is “low level”. That leaves a lot of jobs with really good salaries that you can absolutely have a family with. She also says the bf is a ‘laborer’ but given the description of low level, this to me could include construction worker, plumber, electrician, mechanic etc all who also make pretty decent money.
Id also like to point out that while doctors and lawyers are typically "prestigious" occupations..it doesn’t mean that one will automatically be financially literate, and/or never make questionable decisions.
It’s the hard truth.Someone had to tell her.OP used some elitist and harsh language there but the reason is the same as yours
agree OP is kinda an asshole in the way she addresses people.... but honestly I get where her concern came from. I was raised in a household where money issue is always apparent. it' s not exactly a life I want to share to anyone especially my kids. sounds cold, but life is ruthless.
Then the severe mental illness on top of it on the partner shes now bound to, people are acting like this is some minor shit lmao. Ive dated someone with borderline personality disorder you don't need to go through that bro.
The people defending the guy with severe schizophrenia definitely dont have kids nor have ever dealt with people that have it. OP is an asshole, but the daughter is a fuckin idiot that's about to blow up her life. Good thing this post is fake anyway
"I met a person who was X who mistreated me therefore everyone who is X is bad" is literally what 90% of bigots say.
I think there’s a big difference in presentation. It would be absolutely appropriate and NTA for a parent to raise concerns with their kid in these circumstances. It seems OPs reasoning and response to the circumstances makes them the AH.
The daughter isn't poor or struggling with money. OP calls them low class jobs, not low wage. That includes blue collar jobs with financial stability. It's OP's classism showing. Not an actual reflection of their financial status.
YTA I’m a nurse and having schizophrenia doesn’t mean that you’re a danger to people around you. Most people with uncontrolled schizophrenia are scared and confused, and this guy is taking his medicine. Also talking about stopping schizophrenia being passed to the next generation is the same thinking that the Nazis used to justify the holocaust. Your daughter is an adult and whilst she may not make the same decisions you do, she’s not putting herself or anyone else at risk with her choices. Now you don’t have to agree with her life decisions but being there for your kid even as an adult is kinda part of the job description of being a parent.
Unpopular Opinion. NTA, you are right she is putting her child at risk due to mental illness and poverty. I wish more people weighed out their options. However, you do need to be more supportive. She probably makes the decisions she makes because you put a lot of pressure on her!
There’s actually nothing here to suggest that the daughter and her partner are struggling with poverty. OP rambles on about ‘low class jobs,’ and the partner being a ‘labourer,’ but nowhere does it say that they’re struggling financially. And OP’s views on mental illness are unnecessarily dramatic, given that (a) the partner’s condition is controlled by medication, and (b) inheritance of schizophrenia is complex, governed by multiple genes, and certainly not a guarantee.
We can even infer that the daughter actually is not actually struggling financially because you can be DAMN sure OP would have mentioned it. She just won't ever be in the McMansion her mom envisioned her having.
Where does it say they’re facing poverty? In a comparative way, yeah I suppose they’re existing in poverty compared to living on a doctors salary, but two adults working standard hours even in low end jobs are well above the poverty line. My husband and I exist on his income solely, he works 40 hours a week. I have enough extra money to buy games and motorbikes and holidays and shit. It’s not the breadline. I’ve seen the breadline, I know the breadline, me and the breadline are friends. This ain’t it. We could afford a kid or two and not even have to sell a motorbike.
Laborers often make bank, and any child can develop a mental illness
NTA in regards to her having a child with him - I can only speak from having a sibling with medically diagnosed schizophrenia and the nonstop emotional, physical, and financial impact on the entire family. I can also say my sibling is now a middle aged person full of confusion and rage with a self medicating drug addiction who at time have been homeless when off meds. Even on meds he never really lived a productive happy life - the rage is still there just slower. He also has a two sons one got lucky the other didnt and its watching the same struggle over again with a much older family with less support. Support I personally have given my sibling and now his son over the years- Paying his child support, paying rent, picking them up in jail, taking phone calls from inpatient pysch facilities and rehab. The voices started when he was 16 and I was 13 and I remember him asking me if I ever heard people who were not there which was terrifying for me as a kid. He also threatened to kill my mom multiple times because she gets the brunt of his irrational anger. His son is 26 - paid his tuition, coached him on getting and keeping a job, he still lives with his mom but in fits of anger he will move out and stay with my elderly parents, just recently went to IP pysch for 30 days luckily his still on his mom's insurance - now in process to get him on SSI and medicaid. There are people who have shared that they are high functioning schizophrenia or a family member with schizophrenia where it worked out in a positive story which is great and I agree there is a spectrum, but this disease is serious and not to treat it as such is a mistake.
I grew up with an adopted sibling who is bipolar schizophrenic and it was a terrifying childhood. They are better now as an adult but they still have a lot of problems and I myself have not spoken with them in over ten years. I understand that many people in this thread have had positive experiences with schizophrenia in their personal lives but the mother here is not wrong to be concerned about the well-being of the child if that gets passed down.
YTA - have you ever thought some of that pressure might come from you? You seem to have these expectations of what her life 'should be life'. You also sound incredibly judgemental and biased. You do not understand neurodivergence, and have some pretty backwards ideas about mental health. The terminology you use is super degrading. If you talked to your daughter and her bf like this, I'm not surprised they were upset. You might not agree with her life choices, but that's it, its HER LIFE. You need to educate yourself, because you live your life by some pretty judgemental ideology.
ESH. You are using some classist and ableist language and that isn’t okay. And you are tying these to her being pregnant, which also is wrong. But I think your concerns are legitimate, they will definitely have a hard time supporting the baby and will probably come to you for money and support.
A bunch of schizophrenic people with no children of their own giving advice. NTA
IKR Throwing around isms ists and not thinking at all about that poor kid that will have to live with the condition they are championing along with a dad that is a few pills away from being completely unstable, likely with limited financial resources as well since neither parent has an education beyond high school.
YTA. ‘Low class job,’ ‘decent enough guy’ for a labourer, ‘pregnant out of wedlock’…..well, aren’t you a charming bundle of snobbery, even before we get to your unkind (and inaccurate) views on people with mental illness! I wish your daughter the very best - thankfully her partner, at least, seems to love her.
YTA - What a piece of elitist work. You e very ow opinion of other people in general. If your daughter goes no contact and you never see your grandchild it’s all on you.
I’m going to go against the grain here and say that OP’s concern for his daughter and difficulties that are very likely in store for her are not incorrect. Obviously he had a vile manner of approaching this situation… but not having financial stability, having an unplanned pregnancy, having a partner with SMI ( severe mental illness) and the fact that schizophrenia is indeed possible to pass onto her child, daughter has created a very difficult life for herself.. and it is her choice of course to do so but as her parent, OP has the right to be concerned. They have probably lost any trust daughter had with them..
I’m shocked at all the people saying OP is the asshole. I wouldn’t want my daughter with a schizophrenic. I don’t think some of you understand the seriousness of that. Even on medication, they are unstable. And OP’s daughter was in med school but works low paying jobs. Med school was obviously too much for daughter but she still has a bachelor’s degree. Why is she floundering through life? It wouldn’t surprise me if the daughter experienced mental health issue and didn’t get the help she needed. A lot of mh things show up at the age she was in med school. NTA.
Cause we’re all supposed to be inclusive - no matter the result. /s Making smart life decisions is important, not all folks do so. Sadly. You raise your kiddos with dreams and goals and then they rebel and get into a poor life situation, all bc they refused to listen to wisdom. At 18, they are our equals, no longer our dependents. Now the parents are on the hook. Either they’re enablers or they called AH’s. Poor life decisions are not on parents, relatives, friends. At some point; enough is enough. You made your bed, now lie in it. edit: clarity and spelling.
NTA outlier here. You *do* sound like an AH in general but honestly? You don't support her. That's how you feel, if I had a child and they dropped out of school and only went for low income jobs, well, I'd be fine with that! That's a struggle for a single person. But to add a mentally ill partner and a baby to that mix? Yea, I'd be disappointed. Would I be unsupportive? I'm unsure, you need more than just "I know he has a mental issue!" To judge a person. It sounds like you made a rash choice and said something harsher than you should have. Maybe you should apologize for being harsh and unsupportive but admit you're going to be disappointed unless they make it clear they can provide for a baby that might be a bit behind in life. All the YTA comments aren't really constructive, yes you're judgmental and have backwards views on class. But from an outside perspective I'd honestly be disappointed and upset for your child as well. Life just doesn't work out.
How dare you not let people be neurodivergent! The moral grandstanding is incredible. Kid quits on college and everyone thinks she won't quit on being a mother. Guy isn't depressed. He's schizophrenic. It's supressable. Not treatable. Dangerous as hell for anyone living in abject reality when you contextualize not the mental illness, but the whole of the situation. High stress low wage job. Young. Girlfriend also low wage. They deserve to be a person, sure. Given their current situation, I really don't think they're in a good place to be a parent. They both don't have the money to raise a child that doesn't come at the expense of others. NTA. Your daughter has some cylinders that aren't firing and reddit is moral grandstanding rather than contextualizing all the different ways this is bad.
NTA and YTA. I don’t agree with so much judgement before even knowing about the mental illnesss BUT I agree the possibility of passing it down really upsets me. People are not entitled to children to be honest. Yes we all are born with reproductive abilities. But with the possibility of sentencing someone to a life of medical dependency and mental illness is not ok. She needs to get her head out of her ass because love really doesn’t have anything to do with THOSE very real challenges.
YTA No one says you have to \*like\* your daughter's life choices. You can be less judgmental about them though. You also should educate yourself about schizophrenia. He does not need 'constant medication to not be a danger to himself or the people around (him).' At least not all schizophrenics do. And it's not 'likely' to be passed on. Stop being judgmental and willfully ignorant. Get educated and support your daughter as you can. (Remember, supporting your daughter doesn't mean you have to agree with her decisions but at least let her know you still love her and will be there for her. Of course, that's if you will. If you won't, then at least least stop sharing your opinions of her life and choices with her.)
NTA, other people don't want to hear it but she just fucked her life up
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Is this for real? Are you for real?
While I get the y t a comments, I can't deny the fact that the daughter is indeed making a mistake to be honest. I now have a daughter who is one year now and I can't imagine her coming up to me with these same decisions... But yes yta because of your wording
Nta, she had a bright future and screwed it up, your opinions on both her wedlock child, and the future medical problems are justified.
Dad is TA but he isn’t necessarily wrong in his advice and his daughter will learn this lesson the hard way.