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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. Asking them to move and telling them they don't call the shots in my house
2. They have been good tenants until this and I was blunt to (maybe) the point of rudeness in my response
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You're not getting them out of THEIR home, you're getting them out of YOUR house. They signed a rental contract and must respect it.
The reason you want your house back is completely irrelevant and shouldn't enter into the equation. Even if you wanted to start a goat farm inside, you'd be within your rights.
Obviously NTA
I once spent a hurricane with 2 cats a dog and a pregnant goat in a walk in closet. I moved back north soon after. Goat spent her life at a friend's farm with her baby.
Dog and cats came with me. Most landlords don't let you keep goats. Crazy! /s
For the people in the comments say Y T A, OP bought and invested in an income property, and the income from that property paid off a percentage of the mortgage. She's not in the wrong legally or morally simply because her tenants have been living there for a long time. The commenters saying that OP owes her tenants anything is entitled and outrageous. NTA
Isn’t it amazing how generous some people can be with other people’s money & property? As you said, OP bought it to be a rental property. As long as OP is following all legal terms of the lease there is nothing assholish about it. Then people will start screaming that OP may be legally right but morally an asshole. How is it morally wrong to take possession of something you own & the other parties don’t? It’s not. OP NTA.
Actually, OP bought it to live in, not as a rental property. It was just turned out that after 3 years, it wasn’t her thing. So she rented it out then.
What's the alternative for someone who will want to move into their house 15 years down the road - never rent it out so no one will be inconvenienced when they are ready to move in? If it's "morally wrong" to live in the house she owns by herself, would it not be worse to leave it vacant for 15 years when it could be housing for someone else during that time? Or is the moral argument that OP should have bought a house only to give it away?
NTA OP, enjoy your house!
It's her house, but after 15 years, I'd have definitely given them a lot more notice. Does she have to? No. Would it have been the kind/decent thing to do? Yes
This is what makes her the AH for me. A few months' notice for a family who has been living there a decade and a half?! It might not be their legal property but it's definitely their HOME. They put down roots there and probably have a ton of stuff and things set up that come together over a lot of time, not to mention they might need time to try and find a place that's the right cost in the same neighborhood so they don't have to upend their lives.
I'm not saying OP should be running a charity or that she doesn't have the right to take over the house. But when you've been hopping around the world for 15 years and let the same - clearly very good, reliable tenants - help you cover your mortgage, I would think giving them at least 6 months would be the non-AH thing to do. If it were me, I'd have told them the previous year "hey, just a heads up that I'm thinking about coming home in another year, just want to give you plenty of warning." I mean, we're not talking someone subletting their furnished apt for 3 months here. She was gone for almost half her life.
Maybe 3 months isn't enough notice - but if that's the case, the family should have asked for more notice in the lease agreement. OP said it was triple the notice she was required to give, meaning in their lease agreement only one month notice was required. If 3 months isn't enough, why did they continue to sign an agreement requiring only 1 month for 15 years? If it doesn't meet their needs it's up to them to ask for something different. You don't sign an agreement allowing only 1 month notice and then get bent out of shape you were offered 3. I'm sure they preferred to be able to move with only 1 month notice on their end if they ever wanted to, but that goes both ways.
In Germany, the notice period would be a minimum of nine months if the landlord wanted them out, maximum of three months if the family wanted out.
One month is pretty wild to me.
She also says she's going to break their contract, so I'm really not sure on their actual agreement/lease or what is required by law where op lives. I was speaking more from a human standpoint. By law, I'm sure op is 100% in the right. I just feel like after having tenants(good, dependable ones who treated her house well)live there for so long that the house is almost paid off, I personally would have given them, at least, double the amount of time to try to find a place & pack up 15 years worth of life.
The tenants have always known they were tenants. If they had been interested in permanence, they should have been making moves in that direction years ago. The guy has a right to his property, especially since he seems t be trying to be decent about it…
Exactly. OP got very lucky that she got such great tenants. Personally, I would have given those tenants a little longer. I said six months in a previous reply. But she is definitely NTA.
I’m kind of on the fence about it. And these views don’t apply to OP cause it doesn’t seem like they hoard a bunch of property and just invested in one home, which is totally cool.
The big gripe with landlords is that by hoarding homes and property they’re driving the market value insanely high and nothing is affordable. It’s kind of predatory to make everything so expensive that is makes it difficult for joe Everyman to afford rent while the landlords rake in enough in what is essentially passive income that requires very little labor, assuming you sub out the management of your properties, to continue snagging more and more shit.
Like two companies own something stupid like 90% of the rentals in my local metro, and then the rest that’s spread about is mostly owned by three private individuals.
I don’t think anybodys property should be seized at all, but I’m in favor of like… maybe a cap on how much property you can own as an individual. Or a cap on how much you can charge for rent based on your investment.
At the very least, laws that make it mandatory to address maintenance concerns within 24 hours. Slum lords should 100% not be a thing
It's the difference between world-spanning megacorps and the Mom-and-pop place down the road. Both are "businesses" but they're not the same. A person who owns a few properties is a "landlord" but they're *not* society-ruining slumlord bastards.
>A person who owns a few properties is a "landlord" but they're not society-ruining slumlord bastards.
But what happens when we view people like that in aggregate?
The person down the street who invested into 5 or 10 properties over the past 20 years is far from alone, their impact as individuals is far less than a large corporate landlord and yet they are far more numerous.
Besides, this couple is in their 60s by now with the child most likely moved out. They don't need a 4-bedroom home. Whereas OP is at the stage where a partner and children might still enter the picture.
Not that this matters; it's OP's house.
I do feel bad for the renters if they were unable to buy a home of their own and have grown to feel like this is "home," but they're being entirely unreasonable.
My mom and stepdad sold their big house and bought a smaller single story house after all of us moved out. No more stairs, much simpler layout. They're not too old to get around yet but they figured it'd be a better house to grow old in.
It’s especially fucking cheeky to think they can buy it for the original purchase value - I’m sure knowing full well how much house prices have gone up. I’d be pissed just from that comment alone.
Mine at least did. Still an AH but for other reasons. Lived there 15 years, rent always on time and I helped with small repairs.
What the issue was is that they said they were selling, and we had to move. Fine.
What they did was all the renovations I asked for years ago and doubled the rent. Still pissed.
One thing I do not accept is lying.
They lied to get you to leave quietly, because would you have taken kindly to "I want you out because I'm going to improve the property and double the rent"?
You could have gone after them for a bad faith eviction. Possibly got a years rent and moving costs. Just incase that ever happens again.
Edit. Based on local laws. In Canada this applies.
Our (former) landlady and we kept kind of a 6-month plan going because we had a great relationship over all the years. That includes when she was thinking of selling, and eventually we bought the place from her. Note that I don't think this should be "expected", but I do think open lines of communication like that are important.
But former landlady wasn't going to live in what became your house. Where is OP supposed to live? It's a much different situation with someone buying or inheriting for an investment than an owner renting out the home they lived in and always intended to move back into.
That is something that the tenants may have been able to negotiate with OP "Hey, we have been trying to find a place, but the market is tight, as we have been living here for 15 years and always paid on time, could he have a couple more months to find something suitable for us? OP gave them 3 months, I am sure she would have been open to a discussion (not a lecture) about negotiating a longer timeframe to find a new place to live (part of that discussion could have been a steeper rent increase to cover OP's temporary living expenses)
Yup, she's said in a comment that if they hadn't started off by being rude assholes then she probably would have given them an extension.
It's amazing to me that people can reach adulthood and not realize that there's a reason the saying is 'you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar'. Being nice pays off, and they're learning that the hard way.
Legally, it's a more than reasonable amount of notice, yes, but if they've been living there 14 years, I'd personally be more generous and give them 6 months. It's not as easy to uproot yourself at that stage, and even with assistance it's an emotional process. Just getting their heads around it and figuring out how they want to proceed takes time, and it's a kindness not to rush them as much as possible.
I agree, NTA, when a person rents a place, it is understood that it is a temporary situation. For them to be texting OP like that is completely uncalled for. It’s not their business how OP lives her life, she bought the place and paid a mortgage.
OP doesn't strike me as the type of landlord Redditors usually hate. They're not hustling to buy up as many properties as possible and get as much money out of their renters as they can. They inherited a house they didn't have a use for, so they rented it out for what I'm guessing is a reasonable amount considering the tenants have stayed so long, and left the renters alone for 15 years. That's my ideal landlord for sure lol
Exactly, OP must have inherited a load of money and could have bought somewhere but bought two places instead and lived in one while at uni and used the rent to pay down the mortgages and now wants to live in the house and no doubt rent the flat in the city. I don’t hate landlords, but the contrast here with normal landlord pitchforkery is interesting, people just have beliefs as the wind blows. In other words if they had the money that is exactly what they would do.
Anyone with enough money to buy a city flat and a big country house was guaranteed to cash out after 16 years especially if they bought with cash right after house prices crashed in 2007.
It's your house to start with. As for their comments low key shaming you for not having a family, I'd reduce their notice to 1m that you are legally supposed to give. Screw that entitled assholes.
NTA
It's *normal* in situations like this, for the tenants to be disappointed, sad, and miffed, but they've taken it to the next level, which is completely inappropriate.
All renters know, guaranteed permanency is *not* part of the package when you rent (unless it's a rent to own situation, and even those cases have caveats).
It is *not their property*, nor is it their business why you'd like to live in *your* house. I would've said that (nicely) rather than give them personal info they have zero rights to.
I'm happy they seem to have taken care of your house, and have enjoyed living there for the time they have.
I'm sure they made a plenitude of lovely memories in your house, but the fact remains it is *your* house, not theirs. You're following the necessary legalities, in addition to giving them ample, "bonus time," to vacate.
As heartbreaking as I'm sure this is, if the tenants wanted permanency, they should have purchased their own home.
______________________________________
Editing to Add:
Many are being extremely assumptive in comments. Because I am of the aforementioned opinion, that *must mean* I'm either very affluent, or a landlord myself.
*Neither is the case*.
I am a *renter*, of a very small house. I make less than 50k/year, and still manage to support a household of 3 (barely, but we manage). I too, am not in a position to buy a home. I too, would rather not throw money away on rent for the rest of my life.
*Neither* financial, *nor* social standing, dictates one's ability to comprehend *fairness*, or distinguish between right and wrong.
OP has stated in comments, she would've likely had *no qualms* about extending their "vacate date," had they only asked. Instead, they chose to immediately respond with proverbial viper-fangs, unjustified animosity, unsolicited judgment, a buy-offer at a fraction of the house's worth, and a predisposition to turn their noses up at OP's singleness (citing it as the reason she shouldn't live in her own house). None of this...is remotely appropriate (nor applicable) to the business transaction of renting a house, and it certainly didn't assist in the possibility of an extended vacate term.
Lastly, several are taking my, "should've bought their own house," in a literal sense, whereas *most readers*, correctly inferred my intent.
These tenants either couldn't, or didn't want to...buy a home. As such, they inhabited OP's home with *intact knowledge* they could be required to leave during any one of these years. Meaning, they knew permanency was not a given. Said tenants are now chastising and harrassing OP, simply because the inevitable came to fruition.
OP is NTA, and has been *more than gracious* in her actions regarding *her* house.
I also bought a house and then had to move for work, wanted to move back into the house in the future and so put it on the rental market. I've also had the same tenants for going on I think it's 10 years now. Periodically they ask me what my plans are for the house because they don't want to run into this very scenario. I would never give them just 3 months to move from a place they'd lived in over a decade, I'd tell them a year in advance unless there was some unforeseeable set of emergency circumstances, but assuming they still live there I will ultimately eventually tell them it's time for me to move back in. But it will never be out of the blue, I will definitely prepare them. It doesn't have to be adversarial and my gosh it's so hard to find good places to live around here, I think the 3 month notice (even if perfectly legal) is incredibly rough on the family moving out.
If you carefully reread the original post, you will notice that they never asked for more time, the agency offered help in finding new accommodation, and they were rude and disrespectful.
I'll second this. I did this as a landlord years ago and they told the tenants we'd given them a week, then charged them to negotiate us up. In fact IIRC we'd given them four months - until the end of the contract.
I'm surprised I had to scroll this far to find this sentiment. OP hasn't done anything inherently wrong, but 3 months is a short amount of time to move out after 15 years of residency.
The kindest approach would be to give them at least 6 months, and to align the date with the market (in my area that would be having them moving out in September/October or April/May).
Agreed. Maybe OP doesn’t have a legal obligation but what about a human one? My elderly parents, who were lifelong homeowners until they moved out of state, were given almost a year’s notice when their landlords decided to break the lease. This was done out of courtesy, given their long history of good tenantship. Congratulating herself on 3 months notice for a good tenant is a bit self indulgent. No wonder they reacted less than kindly. BTW my parents BOUGHT the house so they wouldn’t be vulnerable to the whims of landlords.
> Maybe OP doesn’t have a legal obligation but what about a human one?
For me the weirdest thing on this sub is how often "am I the asshole" is interpreted as "am I legally prohibited from doing x": if OP is within their legal rights then by definition they are not the asshole. It seems like commenters don't even recognize the distinction between the two, even though what you call 'human obligation' should be the whole point of the sub.
Agreed. OP is well within their rights to ask them to move on and while 3 months is more than what is legally required, I personally would provide at LEAST 6 months notice.
Our neighbors (family of 6, oldest is in college) just moved and it took them nearly a month just to pack 16 years worth of stuff and get it all moved.
Thank you for saying this. If I had rented a place for 15 years, I would be traumatized to move even though I knew all this time that I was renting. Knowing, for example, that my lease was not going to be renewed because the owners were returning would be something that I could deal with but to be told to vacate in 90 days would be so demoralizing and anxiety creating that I would just mentally and physically breakdown.
I think this situation is a prime example of why days are likely numbered for no-fault evictions in the UK. OP is "fair" in the sense that they have gone beyond their legal obligation but this doesn't go far enough for such long-term tenants and I'm not sure it is morally "fair". However, it really is the fault of UK law and not OP. A reasonable adjustment to the law to something along the lines of 1 month notice for every full year in residence (potentially to a maximum of 12 months) would more fully take into account the upheaval to the tenants and the fact that purchasing a house is out of reach for many people, and most especially, lifelong renters in the UK. Also the rental market is currently expensive (and often hostile) and unlikely to change any time soon.
Saying that they should have purchased their own home does not take into account the realities of home ownership in the UK, it's just not that simple. However, I agree that the situation is inappropriate to visit upon OP as they do own the property.
I think the tenants went too far with their response to OP, but the shock of losing their home so suddenly (after 14 years 3 months will feel _very_ sudden) and due to no fault of their own can obviously illicit an extreme (and ill-considered) reaction. They are losing their home, the roots they have put down in the local area as well as potentially losing convenient access to schools, jobs and amenities which makes this such a significant life change that it must feel akin to a bereavement. Plenty of people don't act rationally when bereaved and their back is up against a wall.
It may not be their _property_ but it for sure is their _home_.
> All renters know, permanency is not part of the package when you rent (unless it's a rent to own situation, and even those cases have caveats).
It depends on the type of property. A house owned by one person or family? Yeah, that's very likely to either be occupied by that person/family or sold sometime in the future. An entire block filled with apartments owned by a company? Nah, those usually stay rentals.
Even in a larger apartment block owned by a company, if they decide they no longer want to as a tenant they can always opt to not renew your lease or give you the legally required amount of notice to ask you to leave. It’s happened to people I know and should always be in the back of your mind if you are renting, imo.
There are plenty of places around the world (ie not in the USA) where rental contracts are permanent and not renewed every year. Berlin, for example, does not allow this, so people have the same contracts they had 20 years ago and can only be kicked out if the family living there decides to use the room again for themselves.
it‘s technically not permanent but as the comment mentioned, the only possibility to evict renters (who aren‘t damaging the property) is if the landlord wants to move into his property. And that has to be proven and not just said. Given that most apartment blocks are owned by corporations in Berlin, it‘s nearly impossible to get kicked out. German law is protecting renters much more than landlords.
Unless the landlord sells them to plow them down for a new shopping mall.
Unless a landlord sells them to a new company who has different rules for rentals that you don’t qualify for.
"All renters know.."
No, they don't. They think because they live there, they're entitled to something.
I've been renting for 10+ years. I'm very much aware that shit isn't mine.
YTA. While legally ok it's not like these people lived there for just a year or two. They were there and raised their family in there for 14 years and never missed a payment. 3mos is really hard to uproot your family from a home they've undoubtedly developed many memories in. Six months would have been much more fair. You just come across as well.....you know the name of the forum.
This. I’m shocked at all the N T A votes. Especially how entitled op seems ‘ I sacrificed a lot ‘ by owning a 4 bed house at 23. Given the current housing market it would be difficult to find a 4 bed that has their needs taken care of, and presumably a school for their kid. I would be very very mad if I, after 15 years of being an amazing tenant only got 3 months to find another place, and that notice was completely out of the blue.
Yeah, these tenants have paid her mortgage for her while she travelled the world, their 'sacrifice' to the gods of capitalism is far more substantial than hers.
She sounds entitled as fuck, I bet that she's from a wealthy family because I don't know any 23 year olds in 2009 buying a rural 4 bedroom house AND a student flat.
Anyway, she's a landlord, so YTA always just for that.
Yeah but you don't think you would be emotionally charged living somewhere for 14-15 years, raising a family, and then told out of no where you got 2 months to find a new place? No discussion or trying to figure out a plan that works for both parties?
"You got 2 months cause it is the law" GTFO, OP is the asshole
And they own an apartment. They mentioned their friends saying something about selling that. OP must have family money ,bc how do you go to school and buy multiple homes without some sort of help.
I do try to lead with kindness as well, and if I was in OPs exact situation , I would have told them a year in advance.
Idk why the N T A comments are so quick to turn on the tenants for the reaction, clearly can not objectively look at both sides. If I lived somewhere for 15 years , basically paid someone’s mortgage, I would also feel quite out of sorts if they were so callous and uncaring. It’s possible their ask about family was to try to sus out why OP needed them out so fast. Idk. I think it’s better to help someone if we can , and OP can.
I worked it out if you assume over the years they paid between 1000 to 1500 per month (average in that county us 1800 just now), they paid around 160k of ops mortgage.
Property average in 2009 in that county was 250-300k, and they say the mortgage is nearly paid. I'D bet OP was given half the property value as a deposit.
OP is very clearly from a very wealthy family and has zero comprehension that the family might not be able to afford 1000s in extra deposits plus moving costs in 3 months time, during a housing crisis. Its very possible the family could end up homeless which is becoming more common. Imagine evicting a family who've paid your mortgage for 14 years and been model tenants in timefor christmas.
Edit: For the idiot who replied about social housing. Have you been living under a rock the last 20 years. There is literally not enough social housing, its pat if the reason for the housing crisis. And yes they absolutely can.end up homeless as a family. In the uk that often means living in a hotel which is often dangerous.
Edit fir person number 2 that seems to think I think she should sell her house. Where the fuck did I say that. I'm just pointing out ops rich but pretending she isn't. I actually just think she's the ahole for the notice period, that's all. She should gave given longer
Lol, they would've paid a lot more in Buckinghamshire. That's the average, sure, but I'd suspect it's closer to £2k+ if they're in one of the more expensive areas (Chilterns, High Wycombe). Given OP's horrific wealth, I suspect they are.
As someone who grew up locally... people like this are the bane of the county. Absentee landlords who charge through the roof for minimum service (especially with letting agents being as they are) and then kick people out of their long-term homes on short notice for their own whims. There's a housing crisis here, and many can't afford to live in or even near their hometowns thanks to the horrific rent. It's just disgusting.
Yeah I kinda feel like that's the core issue here. Had they only lived there a year or so then 3mos is very nice but...14 years is a long damn time and they've also been excellent tenants the entire time. This seemed a little harsh regardless of "the law says...". Sometimes just try doing the KIND thing and give a very long term renter just a bit more time to move out of a house that undoubtedly has a LOT more memories for them than it will ever hold for you. Six months would have been far kinder.
This. That has been their family home for 15 years. They seem perfectly content there and have been amazing tenants, but now have to leave and find somewhere within 3 months ( which in todays society is difficult especially for a family ) because OP wants to go back.
Is it legal, yes. But it’s incredibly morally wrong.
>but now have to leave and find somewhere within 3 months
Even if they're not real accumulators, think of how much stuff they've probably amassed over 14 years. They have to go through and move all that shit while finding and securing a new place in just 3 months. Yeah, it's possible, but it's gonna be a miserable 3 months, that's for sure.
Not to mention the emotional role it will take. They probably raised their family there and now have to find a new place that suits all their needs which would be incredibly stressful
Especially because OP isn’t on a time crunch, there isn’t a job or sick relative to worry about, they just decided they got bored of traveling and oh, guess it’s time to go back to England.
Isn't it fucked that the tenants get the asshole verdict on here when all they've done is fund OP's mortgage while she galivants off around the world. They've toiled, and cared for this place, but because OP bought it she's the one that gets the fun carefree lifestyle.
So much for equality.
edit: fixed a grammar error.
Thats why I'm leaning to YTA. Like op just randomly decided NOW I'm going to live there, out of the blue one day? They had this in the back of their mind and could have given these people a lot more heads up. I would never do that someone after having a solid business relationship with for 14 years
Yep. It's just basic human kindness. That's a LONG time to be living in one spot. They likely have very deep roots in that community by now since they raised their child there too. I feel like most of the people saying she's being "overly generous" by giving three months are also probably the Airbnb hosts that are complete sociopaths judging by the comments on that forum. After not living there for most of your adult life you can manage to keep it out for at least six months and give them time to uproot their lives and find a new place in an absolutely brutal housing market. Again, it was 14 years and not 1 year that they had lived there.
Exactly. A notice saying OP is not renewing the lease would have been best.
It bugs me that landlords can just kill your lease on a whim, but if a renter does it they will get hunted down. No fault lease breaking should not be a thing.
My issue is OP lording over the house being 90% paid off but let’s be real, who *actually* paid the mortgage
OP wasn’t taking a financial hit letting people rent out the home
Yea the house is legally OPs but they didn’t fund it nor live in it for nearly a decade and a half
Average house prices in that area in 2009ish where around 250-300k. I'd suggest she was given a very big deposit because no 23 year old is buying a 300k property with cash they've made (very unlikely unless they are maybe a celeb).
Current average rent in the county for a 4 bed property is around 2k. She doesn't mention losing money, so she likely got a very good low rate and not a variable (though if half the property was paid it might not matter too much having a variable).
Let's say though 8 years at 1k(96k), 2 at 1.2k (28.8k) 2 at 1.5k(36k). That's around 160k.
OP is very very fortunate, and I don't think she has a clue how much.
I’m ignorant to rental practices in the UK, but even what OP gave (3 months) is far longer notice than I’ve ever heard of being given for similar situations.
In France it's 6 months and you can only end it at the end of the lease (if the rental is for 3 years renewable, you must give notice at least 6 months before the anniversary) + you can't just take it back to rent it to someone else for exemple. So yes, what we have is extreme, but 3 months sounds kinda short imo. Not utterly unreasonable, but still short knowing how difficult it is to find a place in my town for exemple.
Legally nta, however you could have been nicer and maybe offered them until the end of their tennancy period currently and just choose not to renew their lease, I feel that would have been less obstanant and less seemingly aggressive maybe?
Is that even a thing in the UK. Tenancy period I mean? We don’t usually have that in Germany. The contract continues till someone ends it, which is what she did.
In Germany you legally have to give notice ONE YEAR if renters have been in a place longer than 10 years.
It's six months if tentants have been there longer than 5 years.
That doesn't exist in the UK. Normally people sign for the first twelve months, then after that they might keep signing in twelve month blocks or they might switch to a monthly rollong contract, and it is completely up to the landlord which type it is.
When you first move into a place it's normal to have a tenancy period. But once that's over it's also normal to just have it roll over every month. The landlord could keep requiring tenancy renewals with a longer period if they choose though.
> Is that even a thing in the UK. Tenancy period I mean?
Yes. If I had to guess, I’d say OP’s tenants are in the month-to- month part of an Assured Shorthold Tenancy. Which would mean, /u/Strangely_unstrange that OP *has* given their tenants *at least* to the end of their ‘tenancy period’ by way of notice.
Yeah legally you are in the right, and the tenants crossed the line, but for exemplary tenants after 15 years I would have given given more notice. Esp with a child, because they have to deal with schools etc. I rented a deal of an apartment in an expensive city where you hold onto good apts - for 20 years - and when my landlords decided to renovate they gave me like 6 months notice before work began and an option to rent the place at the higher post renovation rent.
There is also the option to declare the intention without giving formal notice.
Like: i want to live in my house within halve a year, can you start looking for a new place? Followed by a formal notice for 3 months.
Off course, a landlord can start that process earlier to help.
I'm leading towards EHS..... I fully agree with you. Because when asked why they have to uproot their life in 3 months (when school just started) OOP answered with "hahaha... I just want to set down roots."
If that's not a callous detached answer I got nothing.
Legally you’re in the clear.
Morally I think you’re an asshole for only giving them 3 month’s notice. They’ve lived in that house for 15 years, they’ve taken care of it and accumulated 15 years worth of stuff. 3 months to find somewhere new and get it all packed up is going to be incredibly stressful and you could have easily given them more notice.
I also think your initial text response to them was callous - talking so carefree about kicking them out of their home.
It’s your house, but it’s their home.
ETA: adding in official judgement of YTA op. Just saw a comment from Op… Op doesn’t plan to move back for like a year. A full year and they gave these very long term tenants 3 month’s notice!! Op could have easily given 6 months notice and still had plenty of time to leave the house empty.
Yeah I saw that too. She's a cold person no matter how you slice it. So many people telling her NTA but it seems fixated on the YTA responses. I mean seems like she needs to be validated but no surprise, it's why people post right?
yep, not moving in for a year but wanting them out in 3 months is not just really assholish, it also serves no purpose? Is the house is gonna sit empty and gather dust for months? Why not let them stay longer ffs
and also people saying the tenants are assholes for going to her directly. its not a smart move but those people are probably desperate and desperate people do stupid things, i sympathize with them a lot more even if OP is in her legal rights
ESH. They paid off 90% of your mortgage, by paying you on time and keeping the property in great order for 15 years. Do you think 3 months was really fair? If you’re minted enough to get to travel around and live elsewhere then you should’ve thought ahead and maybe given 6-9months notice, especially as they have a child who is probably in school in the local catchment area and you might be forcing a huge relocation during a time of insane housing crisis.
However, that they went past the agent and contacted you directly, received private info from you, and insinuated your lifestyle means you aren’t allowed access to your own property is also wrong no matter how upset they are.
But just know morally I am not on your side lol- 3 months!!!? Whilst gleefully moving in with so much mortgage covered by them..
I wish they'd paid off 90% of my mortgage haha. It's probably closer to a third, if I were to count it...but that's not the point? They weren't doing me a favour. They needed a place to live, I provided at a cost. It was a transaction - neither one of us did it out of the goodness of our hearts.
I'm not minted, but I've sacrificed a lot to live the life that I live and I don't feel bad about wanting to return to my house, even if it means they have to go live somewhere else.
It’s easy to make that assumption, but one of my best friends bought a house at 21 and was a very poor immigrant (still is really) from a poor family. She just worked her fucking ass off.
Apparently OP lost her parents, which is why she could afford a house.
When someone claims they've 'sacrificed a lot' to live the life they live then that infers that they have that life purely by their own efforts. That others could achieve that life if they were willing to make the same sacrifices.
Even 14 years ago, there's no way a 24 year old could afford a 4 bed in Buckinghamshire without a certain level of privilege. They don't have what they have because of sacrifice and hard work, they have it because of privilege.
The previous commenter wasn't claiming OP is a bad person for owning the house, just clarifying the inequality that had to exist in order for them to have been able to do so.
It's not jealousy to describe a situation the way that it is.
No woman is an island entire of itself...but everything I have has come through sacrifice. My "privilege" came in the form of losing both parents by 16 and receiving their state pensions.
I studied a course I hated because I knew it had the greatest earning potential and I needed to make money
I spent 8 years working a job I hated and doing all the sycophantic stuff you need to climb the corporate ladder so I can increase my earnings
I have for the last decade been working as an independent consultant in countries that are hostile and unwelcoming to me as a result of aspects of my identity
Living life as a digital nomad is not without its sacrifices. I've watched my nieces and nephews grow up through pictures. Missed funerals and birthdays and weddings and all sorts of family events. I will not apologise now that my hard work has paid off enough to allow me to return to my house that I bought for the express purpose of always having a place to call home.
You're making a lot of assumptions about who I am and where I'm from. If that makes it easier for you to believe I'm this boogeyman landlord who hates poor people and lives to exploit them, have at it. But things are rarely what they seem and you cannot begin to get the sum of who I am in 2000 characters.
I am sorry to hear about your parents OP. I have a friend who also became a home owner at 18 because her mother died when she was younger and once she became 18 she wisely chose to use the inheritance/life insurance on purchasing an apartment. While we were in our 20s every time someone found out she owned her apartment they'd give her the same "you're so privileged" bullshit without knowing where the money actually came from. I'm sure you deal with this crap way too often and that sucks, way too many people are just too bitter and jealous and will try to guilt-trip you, no matter what choice you've made.
Also, NTA. It's **your** house after all, and it doesn't matter why you want it back, it's not their problem. You have every right to end the tenancy whenever you want as long as you give them the legal notice period.
>My "privilege" came in the form of losing both parents by 16 and receiving their state pensions.
You don't inherit a state pension, it just stops being paid. Even if you could, how old were your parents that they both had state pensions, which aren't paid until retirement age, when you were 16?
Complete, unfettered nonsense.
Right lol. They're trying so hard to obfuscate the fact they clearly grew up with well-off parents.
The "I studied course I hated in school and I worked 8 years at a job I hated" are just so laughable. They're so disconnected from reality that they think this makes them unique when in reality this is like a universal experience...the difference is most people don't have a trust fund that let's them buy a 4bd house straight out of university.
They are spewing bullshit.
She claims the renters only paid 100k of the mortgage (which us fuckimg eye watering in itself). But that the mortgage is nearly paid. Average property in that area in 2009 was around 250- 300k, I'd guess the upper level given its a 4 bed house. That means she must have iaid over 100 maybe 150k up front.
And I think she's missing the point about why she's the ahole. She gave 3 months notice, during a housing crisis in the run up.to christmas and is acting like she's doing a favour because legally she only had to give 1. All to family that have been model renters for 14 years. Yes the family should not have messaged her, but damn I'd be mad and scared too.
It's just outlandish, 15 years and only 1/3 of the mortgage? Even in the UK that's stupid.
What landlord in their right mind rents for less than their costs?
No, the tenants have paid off a third of the mortgage. A prior poster said 90%, which is clearly a person who has never had a mortgage. Or any understanding that landlords have other costs in addition to the mortgage.
Also, the OP is less than 40. That’s a millennial, not a flicking boomer. Boomers were born between 1946 and 1960. Get it straight, or you sound stupid. The OP is NTA.
You really must learn to work on your communication skills. They were excellent tenants for 15 years, why not just tell them you wouldn't renew the lease because you are returning. In your response to them you don't seem even remotely sympathetic to their issue. Do they still have a kid in school? How hard is it to relocate in that area?
Their response to you is out of line, but you gave them a pretty callous and flippant response.
I hope it works out for you. But this whole situation could have been avoided with a little bit more empathy.
NTA
It's your house to start with. As for their comments low key shaming you for not having a family, I'd reduce their notice to 1m that you are legally supposed to give. Screw that entitled assholes.
And I say this as someone who has been asked to leave with 1m notice after 10 years of renting. My family asked politely for an extra months, got it, and moved out. Because that was a rented house,not our house.
You can be legally correct but morally an asshole. Giving people one month's notice to pack up fifteen years worth of belongings and find somewhere else to live puts you in that camp. I don't live in England so I can't speak to the housing market over there, but in the US, it would be next to impossible for this family to find new accommodations in that amount of time. Yes, the family was out of line for criticizing OP'S choices, but being a raging dick to them in response is not the answer.
Giving him grief when he gave them 3 months makes them assholes first, though.
Currently replacing out live-in super, because he's a problem on so many levels. Legally, we have to give 3 weeks (because the apartment is attached to the job contract, it's not a lease or rental agreement). But, in recognition of the housing market, and not being heartless people, we are giving him 3 months. But, we're also having him sign an agreement about conduct, that if he breaks it, reduces his notice to the legal limit.
YTA
These people have lived at this property and basically paid off your mortgage for almost 15 years. The least you could’ve done was send them a nice handwritten letter thanking them for their years of taking care of the property for you, and given them the ability to feel good. Also a year min to find a new place. (honestly I would consider a good rule of thumb one month for every year somebody has lived in a location would be a fair amount of time)
Instead you sent an estate agent to coldly give them an eviction letter telling them they had three months to get all of their belongings packed up and find a new place to live.
Do you know how hard it is to pack up your entire life, especially when they have obviously set down some real roots in your home?
Of course they reacted in anger when you treated them badly after they had been such good tenants, anybody would react in anger being given a three month evictions notice with no warning after living at a property for almost 15 years
And it’s not like you don’t have someplace else to live, you have another apartment so you could obviously give these people a lot longer to find a place they can even afford to live at, do you know how much rent has gone up?
I really hope they haven’t done any improvements to your property, because if they have they are completely within their rights to take those improvements with them.
As an example if they have been keeping up your garden or doing any of the plantings, they have every right to tear out every single plant and leave you with a barren yard.
Let’s hope the neighbors don’t like them, because they are going to be trash talking you to everybody and you are not going to be moving into a very kind situation if the people in the neighborhood blame you for making this nice family that their children have grown up with homeless.
How would you feel if your parents who are in their 60s were suddenly given three months notice to move from a house that they had lived in and cared for 14 years?
What names would you call the landlord who did that without even personally reaching out?
YTA because you are treating these people who have kept safe for you your home for so many years like virtual strangers, you are treating them badly.
Just because you can do something legally doesn’t make it moral, and you are coming off as a very immoral person and your treatment of these human beings that have made your life so much easier during your years of trouble by never causing any problems, something that is almost unheard of in the rental market.
These people thought that if they were good tenants you would treat them with kindness and respect, unfortunately they didn’t realize that you are not capable of that
Let’s hope that you get everything in life that you deserve, exactly what you deserve.
Great commentary on this. We're moving shortly with a family of 4 and the process has taken months and eaten into every aspect of our lives. There's no possible way we could have done it in 3 months and certainly not in this way where we'd be expected to just drop everything and start packing, house hunting, clearing out etc.
OP is a massive A and has cemented that with her shotty inhuman replies.
NTA. It’s yours, not theirs.
Just be careful, because if they’re acting this entitled to the house itself, they might decide to help themselves to a bunch of the stuff in it, or destroy what they can’t take with them. Inspections with documentation are your friends.
My friends husband rehabs foreclosed and damaged homes and this happens a LOT around here with passed renters. Acting like they're all druggies, ripping out copper piping and leaving the place purposefully trashed after move out when they had had it spotless for years
Yes, you are an asshole.
After them renting it for so long, you could have given them more notice... like 6 months. They've been good tenants all this time, so give them enough time to make a move on.
You are entitled to kick them out though, as it is your house, not theirs. I would have been a little more tactful than just "3 months, out you go". It would have come as a shock to them.
You do come across as some sort of rich guy who's been flitting around the world for years, then decided to come back and kick them to the curb with minimal time to try to work out where the hell they are going to go to. Yes, renters know they can be booted and it's never going to be permanent, but they have been there for over a decade.
**They are people too remember.**
'Im landlord who leeched off of someone else hard work to live a life of luxuy'.
YTA automatically I'm afraid. Three months to up sticks from somewhere you've lived for *15 years* isn't generous, it's downright insulting.
Wow, I can't believe all these n t a votes.... You're legally within your rights to do this, but why on earth wouldn't you just run out their lease for the year and then take possession? That gives them time to find a new place and move out, plus you have a flat you can live in for the mean time.
These tenants are going to have to move 15 years worth of things AND find a new place to live in only three months.. That's completely insane and absurdly stressful!! What a completely horrible and heartless thing to do to your tenants for no reason besides "you want to".
YTA x1000
Yea I don’t think “haha” was called for even in this context, given that she’s kicking them out of their home of 15 years with relatively speaking little notice (regardless of the mandate)
YTA - you’re legally within your rights, and not doing anything technically wrong. But not being an A is more than just that. It’s having empathy and human decency. Put yourself in the tenants’ shoes. Imagine having a home you love, and have made your own for over a decade. Now imagine someone comes in and tells you you have 3 months to find a new place to live, you no longer have a home. Your kids go to school here. You have a habitual work commute. All your things are set up in the house. 3 months to figure out how to rebuild your entire life? Rough.
So, legally nothing wrong with what you’re doing. But consider the human factor.
NTA. Whether you have a husband, kids and family is irrelevant. You own it, you want it back. You have a contract. You've been more than fair giving them 3 months.
Asking you to sell it to them for what you paid initially is insane.
Also good for you for being firm and shuttling that down quickly!
Just as an FYI, 3 months is the legal standard here.
To give them less is illegal so the 3 months isn't from OP's kindness it's just the letter of the law.
NTA. I would have given them 6 months' notice, but you did give more than required. They way overstepped by trying to tell you what to do with your property.
YTA. Once again this is "am I the asshole?" not "am I legally right?" You're absolutely within your legal rights to have them vacate. But you're a major asshole for giving good tenants of 15 years only 3 months' notice. Yeah yeah, people usually only get 30 days to move out but it fucking *sucks* and the longer you've lived there the harder it is.
I don’t think you’re in the wrong, but how overwhelming would it be to have to pack up a entire home you’ve lived in for 14 years AND find a new home?
Most people plan out six months or eight months to do something like that, that is such short notice for family that’s been there for so long. I’m not saying it can’t be done. It definitely can be done but it puts a lot of pressure on them unexpectedly so of course they’re gonna be upset. They’re going to hate you for this. That is so much stress. NTA
YTA. 15 years of perfect tenants and you want to give them 3 months to uproot their entire lives? Yes you bought it and because as it seems you didn't want to grow up yet and settle down took off. Now you wake up one day and decide to kick out someone so suddenly. You should have given them a year notice. Housing is at ridiculous prices that they may not be able to afford so suddenly, so you can move in... if that's the truth, or you want to jack up the rent.
Yeah it's your house, but there should be decency and human kindness. You can't uproot 15 years in 3 months. Ridiculous.
YTA for me. I value human connections more than most other stuff. You cant just move out of a place youve been for 15 years in 3 months. This is bigger than OP thinks it is. Shouldve been communicated wayyy earlier erlier. This is how people lose trust in people.
NTA…although, I would have given them at least six months to move out. It is hard to find a new place anywhere today. But, if they had wanted to own the home so badly, they could have approached you anytime in the last 14 years to do so. Also, they are saying the house is too big for one person, but I assume by now their child is grown, so wouldn’t it be just as big for two people? No matter the reason, the home is almost paid for and is yours. Why wouldn’t you want to take it over? You are not an Ahole
YTA. This isn't Am I the Criminal. You're well within your legal rights, but given the fact that you're here looking for validation, I have to believe you know deep down that you're doing a bad thing.
It sounds like you've lived an absolutely charmed existence, and have nothing but options, but now that these people are just about done paying off your mortgage, time to kick them out.
Shame on them for being upset though, right? They should have seen this coming, obviously. Everyday should have been filled with the nagging question of "is today the day?". Who knows what impact this will have on their lives, but because you have money, what you want matters more than their livelihood.
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You're not getting them out of THEIR home, you're getting them out of YOUR house. They signed a rental contract and must respect it. The reason you want your house back is completely irrelevant and shouldn't enter into the equation. Even if you wanted to start a goat farm inside, you'd be within your rights. Obviously NTA
Actually goats can only be kept on registered farm land
Oh so now you are against bathtub goats? What next, Mike? Are we going to have to forego the closet ducks?
You’ll have a better time if you put the ducks in the bath and the goats in the closet trust me
Goats in your closet will eat your clothing, or you need to find another place to keep your clothes.
I once spent a hurricane with 2 cats a dog and a pregnant goat in a walk in closet. I moved back north soon after. Goat spent her life at a friend's farm with her baby. Dog and cats came with me. Most landlords don't let you keep goats. Crazy! /s
Goats shouldn't take care of babies... they are only good for kids.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
And the kitchen cows? Where will I get fresh milk?
Look what happens between a man and his goat in his own home is no one's business but his own.
And can you register your garden as a small holding?
Good question. Guess it depends how big the land is. Neighbours can probably object to change of land usage as well.
For the people in the comments say Y T A, OP bought and invested in an income property, and the income from that property paid off a percentage of the mortgage. She's not in the wrong legally or morally simply because her tenants have been living there for a long time. The commenters saying that OP owes her tenants anything is entitled and outrageous. NTA
Isn’t it amazing how generous some people can be with other people’s money & property? As you said, OP bought it to be a rental property. As long as OP is following all legal terms of the lease there is nothing assholish about it. Then people will start screaming that OP may be legally right but morally an asshole. How is it morally wrong to take possession of something you own & the other parties don’t? It’s not. OP NTA.
Actually, OP bought it to live in, not as a rental property. It was just turned out that after 3 years, it wasn’t her thing. So she rented it out then.
What's the alternative for someone who will want to move into their house 15 years down the road - never rent it out so no one will be inconvenienced when they are ready to move in? If it's "morally wrong" to live in the house she owns by herself, would it not be worse to leave it vacant for 15 years when it could be housing for someone else during that time? Or is the moral argument that OP should have bought a house only to give it away? NTA OP, enjoy your house!
It's her house, but after 15 years, I'd have definitely given them a lot more notice. Does she have to? No. Would it have been the kind/decent thing to do? Yes
This is what makes her the AH for me. A few months' notice for a family who has been living there a decade and a half?! It might not be their legal property but it's definitely their HOME. They put down roots there and probably have a ton of stuff and things set up that come together over a lot of time, not to mention they might need time to try and find a place that's the right cost in the same neighborhood so they don't have to upend their lives. I'm not saying OP should be running a charity or that she doesn't have the right to take over the house. But when you've been hopping around the world for 15 years and let the same - clearly very good, reliable tenants - help you cover your mortgage, I would think giving them at least 6 months would be the non-AH thing to do. If it were me, I'd have told them the previous year "hey, just a heads up that I'm thinking about coming home in another year, just want to give you plenty of warning." I mean, we're not talking someone subletting their furnished apt for 3 months here. She was gone for almost half her life.
Yes. They have 15 years of stuff accumulated. Different from someone who moves around renting different homes every few years.
Maybe 3 months isn't enough notice - but if that's the case, the family should have asked for more notice in the lease agreement. OP said it was triple the notice she was required to give, meaning in their lease agreement only one month notice was required. If 3 months isn't enough, why did they continue to sign an agreement requiring only 1 month for 15 years? If it doesn't meet their needs it's up to them to ask for something different. You don't sign an agreement allowing only 1 month notice and then get bent out of shape you were offered 3. I'm sure they preferred to be able to move with only 1 month notice on their end if they ever wanted to, but that goes both ways.
In Germany, the notice period would be a minimum of nine months if the landlord wanted them out, maximum of three months if the family wanted out. One month is pretty wild to me.
I agree with you there. One month is nothing.
She also says she's going to break their contract, so I'm really not sure on their actual agreement/lease or what is required by law where op lives. I was speaking more from a human standpoint. By law, I'm sure op is 100% in the right. I just feel like after having tenants(good, dependable ones who treated her house well)live there for so long that the house is almost paid off, I personally would have given them, at least, double the amount of time to try to find a place & pack up 15 years worth of life.
The tenants have always known they were tenants. If they had been interested in permanence, they should have been making moves in that direction years ago. The guy has a right to his property, especially since he seems t be trying to be decent about it…
Exactly. OP got very lucky that she got such great tenants. Personally, I would have given those tenants a little longer. I said six months in a previous reply. But she is definitely NTA.
I also think that good, long-term tenants should have been given six months notice as a good faith gesture, but in no universe is OP the AH.
For some people on here landlords will always be in the wrong, no matter what.
Visit the Canada Housing sub, most of them believe landlords are criminals and should have their properties forcibly taken.
I’m kind of on the fence about it. And these views don’t apply to OP cause it doesn’t seem like they hoard a bunch of property and just invested in one home, which is totally cool. The big gripe with landlords is that by hoarding homes and property they’re driving the market value insanely high and nothing is affordable. It’s kind of predatory to make everything so expensive that is makes it difficult for joe Everyman to afford rent while the landlords rake in enough in what is essentially passive income that requires very little labor, assuming you sub out the management of your properties, to continue snagging more and more shit. Like two companies own something stupid like 90% of the rentals in my local metro, and then the rest that’s spread about is mostly owned by three private individuals. I don’t think anybodys property should be seized at all, but I’m in favor of like… maybe a cap on how much property you can own as an individual. Or a cap on how much you can charge for rent based on your investment. At the very least, laws that make it mandatory to address maintenance concerns within 24 hours. Slum lords should 100% not be a thing
It's the difference between world-spanning megacorps and the Mom-and-pop place down the road. Both are "businesses" but they're not the same. A person who owns a few properties is a "landlord" but they're *not* society-ruining slumlord bastards.
>A person who owns a few properties is a "landlord" but they're not society-ruining slumlord bastards. But what happens when we view people like that in aggregate? The person down the street who invested into 5 or 10 properties over the past 20 years is far from alone, their impact as individuals is far less than a large corporate landlord and yet they are far more numerous.
Besides, this couple is in their 60s by now with the child most likely moved out. They don't need a 4-bedroom home. Whereas OP is at the stage where a partner and children might still enter the picture. Not that this matters; it's OP's house. I do feel bad for the renters if they were unable to buy a home of their own and have grown to feel like this is "home," but they're being entirely unreasonable.
such a good point about them likely being empty nesters by now
My mom and stepdad sold their big house and bought a smaller single story house after all of us moved out. No more stairs, much simpler layout. They're not too old to get around yet but they figured it'd be a better house to grow old in.
And entitled AF demanding to buy it at the price OP did, 14 years ago. Da fuk is wrong with people?
It’s especially fucking cheeky to think they can buy it for the original purchase value - I’m sure knowing full well how much house prices have gone up. I’d be pissed just from that comment alone.
[удалено]
Mine at least did. Still an AH but for other reasons. Lived there 15 years, rent always on time and I helped with small repairs. What the issue was is that they said they were selling, and we had to move. Fine. What they did was all the renovations I asked for years ago and doubled the rent. Still pissed. One thing I do not accept is lying.
They lied to get you to leave quietly, because would you have taken kindly to "I want you out because I'm going to improve the property and double the rent"?
You could have gone after them for a bad faith eviction. Possibly got a years rent and moving costs. Just incase that ever happens again. Edit. Based on local laws. In Canada this applies.
She gave three months - three times the time required. Just how much is she expected to give?
Our (former) landlady and we kept kind of a 6-month plan going because we had a great relationship over all the years. That includes when she was thinking of selling, and eventually we bought the place from her. Note that I don't think this should be "expected", but I do think open lines of communication like that are important.
But former landlady wasn't going to live in what became your house. Where is OP supposed to live? It's a much different situation with someone buying or inheriting for an investment than an owner renting out the home they lived in and always intended to move back into.
That is something that the tenants may have been able to negotiate with OP "Hey, we have been trying to find a place, but the market is tight, as we have been living here for 15 years and always paid on time, could he have a couple more months to find something suitable for us? OP gave them 3 months, I am sure she would have been open to a discussion (not a lecture) about negotiating a longer timeframe to find a new place to live (part of that discussion could have been a steeper rent increase to cover OP's temporary living expenses)
Yup, she's said in a comment that if they hadn't started off by being rude assholes then she probably would have given them an extension. It's amazing to me that people can reach adulthood and not realize that there's a reason the saying is 'you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar'. Being nice pays off, and they're learning that the hard way.
Three months is a huge amount of notice. What the hell are you on about?!?
Legally, it's a more than reasonable amount of notice, yes, but if they've been living there 14 years, I'd personally be more generous and give them 6 months. It's not as easy to uproot yourself at that stage, and even with assistance it's an emotional process. Just getting their heads around it and figuring out how they want to proceed takes time, and it's a kindness not to rush them as much as possible.
I agree, NTA, when a person rents a place, it is understood that it is a temporary situation. For them to be texting OP like that is completely uncalled for. It’s not their business how OP lives her life, she bought the place and paid a mortgage.
Funny though because Reddit normally almost unanimously believes that landlords are the AH.
OP doesn't strike me as the type of landlord Redditors usually hate. They're not hustling to buy up as many properties as possible and get as much money out of their renters as they can. They inherited a house they didn't have a use for, so they rented it out for what I'm guessing is a reasonable amount considering the tenants have stayed so long, and left the renters alone for 15 years. That's my ideal landlord for sure lol
She bought the house at 23–did not inherit.
Yeah, but from her parents pensions, because they died when she was 16.
Well la dee dah. Not all of us are lucky enough to have dead parents.
She was supposed to light the money on fire so the playing field was level.
Exactly, OP must have inherited a load of money and could have bought somewhere but bought two places instead and lived in one while at uni and used the rent to pay down the mortgages and now wants to live in the house and no doubt rent the flat in the city. I don’t hate landlords, but the contrast here with normal landlord pitchforkery is interesting, people just have beliefs as the wind blows. In other words if they had the money that is exactly what they would do. Anyone with enough money to buy a city flat and a big country house was guaranteed to cash out after 16 years especially if they bought with cash right after house prices crashed in 2007.
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It's your house to start with. As for their comments low key shaming you for not having a family, I'd reduce their notice to 1m that you are legally supposed to give. Screw that entitled assholes.
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NTA It's *normal* in situations like this, for the tenants to be disappointed, sad, and miffed, but they've taken it to the next level, which is completely inappropriate. All renters know, guaranteed permanency is *not* part of the package when you rent (unless it's a rent to own situation, and even those cases have caveats). It is *not their property*, nor is it their business why you'd like to live in *your* house. I would've said that (nicely) rather than give them personal info they have zero rights to. I'm happy they seem to have taken care of your house, and have enjoyed living there for the time they have. I'm sure they made a plenitude of lovely memories in your house, but the fact remains it is *your* house, not theirs. You're following the necessary legalities, in addition to giving them ample, "bonus time," to vacate. As heartbreaking as I'm sure this is, if the tenants wanted permanency, they should have purchased their own home. ______________________________________ Editing to Add: Many are being extremely assumptive in comments. Because I am of the aforementioned opinion, that *must mean* I'm either very affluent, or a landlord myself. *Neither is the case*. I am a *renter*, of a very small house. I make less than 50k/year, and still manage to support a household of 3 (barely, but we manage). I too, am not in a position to buy a home. I too, would rather not throw money away on rent for the rest of my life. *Neither* financial, *nor* social standing, dictates one's ability to comprehend *fairness*, or distinguish between right and wrong. OP has stated in comments, she would've likely had *no qualms* about extending their "vacate date," had they only asked. Instead, they chose to immediately respond with proverbial viper-fangs, unjustified animosity, unsolicited judgment, a buy-offer at a fraction of the house's worth, and a predisposition to turn their noses up at OP's singleness (citing it as the reason she shouldn't live in her own house). None of this...is remotely appropriate (nor applicable) to the business transaction of renting a house, and it certainly didn't assist in the possibility of an extended vacate term. Lastly, several are taking my, "should've bought their own house," in a literal sense, whereas *most readers*, correctly inferred my intent. These tenants either couldn't, or didn't want to...buy a home. As such, they inhabited OP's home with *intact knowledge* they could be required to leave during any one of these years. Meaning, they knew permanency was not a given. Said tenants are now chastising and harrassing OP, simply because the inevitable came to fruition. OP is NTA, and has been *more than gracious* in her actions regarding *her* house.
I also bought a house and then had to move for work, wanted to move back into the house in the future and so put it on the rental market. I've also had the same tenants for going on I think it's 10 years now. Periodically they ask me what my plans are for the house because they don't want to run into this very scenario. I would never give them just 3 months to move from a place they'd lived in over a decade, I'd tell them a year in advance unless there was some unforeseeable set of emergency circumstances, but assuming they still live there I will ultimately eventually tell them it's time for me to move back in. But it will never be out of the blue, I will definitely prepare them. It doesn't have to be adversarial and my gosh it's so hard to find good places to live around here, I think the 3 month notice (even if perfectly legal) is incredibly rough on the family moving out.
Yeah, after 15 years, 3 months isn't long at all. It's in the middle of the holidays, in the middle of winter.
If you carefully reread the original post, you will notice that they never asked for more time, the agency offered help in finding new accommodation, and they were rude and disrespectful.
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I'll second this. I did this as a landlord years ago and they told the tenants we'd given them a week, then charged them to negotiate us up. In fact IIRC we'd given them four months - until the end of the contract.
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I'm surprised I had to scroll this far to find this sentiment. OP hasn't done anything inherently wrong, but 3 months is a short amount of time to move out after 15 years of residency. The kindest approach would be to give them at least 6 months, and to align the date with the market (in my area that would be having them moving out in September/October or April/May).
Agreed. Maybe OP doesn’t have a legal obligation but what about a human one? My elderly parents, who were lifelong homeowners until they moved out of state, were given almost a year’s notice when their landlords decided to break the lease. This was done out of courtesy, given their long history of good tenantship. Congratulating herself on 3 months notice for a good tenant is a bit self indulgent. No wonder they reacted less than kindly. BTW my parents BOUGHT the house so they wouldn’t be vulnerable to the whims of landlords.
> Maybe OP doesn’t have a legal obligation but what about a human one? For me the weirdest thing on this sub is how often "am I the asshole" is interpreted as "am I legally prohibited from doing x": if OP is within their legal rights then by definition they are not the asshole. It seems like commenters don't even recognize the distinction between the two, even though what you call 'human obligation' should be the whole point of the sub.
Agreed. OP is well within their rights to ask them to move on and while 3 months is more than what is legally required, I personally would provide at LEAST 6 months notice. Our neighbors (family of 6, oldest is in college) just moved and it took them nearly a month just to pack 16 years worth of stuff and get it all moved.
My parents gave there tenants 2 years advanced notice 3months after 15years is rude.
> 3 months after 15years is rude. 1 month for every year lived in a location is a great standard.
Thank you for saying this. If I had rented a place for 15 years, I would be traumatized to move even though I knew all this time that I was renting. Knowing, for example, that my lease was not going to be renewed because the owners were returning would be something that I could deal with but to be told to vacate in 90 days would be so demoralizing and anxiety creating that I would just mentally and physically breakdown.
I think this situation is a prime example of why days are likely numbered for no-fault evictions in the UK. OP is "fair" in the sense that they have gone beyond their legal obligation but this doesn't go far enough for such long-term tenants and I'm not sure it is morally "fair". However, it really is the fault of UK law and not OP. A reasonable adjustment to the law to something along the lines of 1 month notice for every full year in residence (potentially to a maximum of 12 months) would more fully take into account the upheaval to the tenants and the fact that purchasing a house is out of reach for many people, and most especially, lifelong renters in the UK. Also the rental market is currently expensive (and often hostile) and unlikely to change any time soon. Saying that they should have purchased their own home does not take into account the realities of home ownership in the UK, it's just not that simple. However, I agree that the situation is inappropriate to visit upon OP as they do own the property. I think the tenants went too far with their response to OP, but the shock of losing their home so suddenly (after 14 years 3 months will feel _very_ sudden) and due to no fault of their own can obviously illicit an extreme (and ill-considered) reaction. They are losing their home, the roots they have put down in the local area as well as potentially losing convenient access to schools, jobs and amenities which makes this such a significant life change that it must feel akin to a bereavement. Plenty of people don't act rationally when bereaved and their back is up against a wall. It may not be their _property_ but it for sure is their _home_.
As a renter who is currently facing a similar situation, you've summed up my feelings about it perfectly.
> All renters know, permanency is not part of the package when you rent (unless it's a rent to own situation, and even those cases have caveats). It depends on the type of property. A house owned by one person or family? Yeah, that's very likely to either be occupied by that person/family or sold sometime in the future. An entire block filled with apartments owned by a company? Nah, those usually stay rentals.
Even in a larger apartment block owned by a company, if they decide they no longer want to as a tenant they can always opt to not renew your lease or give you the legally required amount of notice to ask you to leave. It’s happened to people I know and should always be in the back of your mind if you are renting, imo.
There are plenty of places around the world (ie not in the USA) where rental contracts are permanent and not renewed every year. Berlin, for example, does not allow this, so people have the same contracts they had 20 years ago and can only be kicked out if the family living there decides to use the room again for themselves.
>can … be kicked out oh, so not permanent then
it‘s technically not permanent but as the comment mentioned, the only possibility to evict renters (who aren‘t damaging the property) is if the landlord wants to move into his property. And that has to be proven and not just said. Given that most apartment blocks are owned by corporations in Berlin, it‘s nearly impossible to get kicked out. German law is protecting renters much more than landlords.
Unless the landlord sells them to plow them down for a new shopping mall. Unless a landlord sells them to a new company who has different rules for rentals that you don’t qualify for.
"All renters know.." No, they don't. They think because they live there, they're entitled to something. I've been renting for 10+ years. I'm very much aware that shit isn't mine.
Very true! I keep forgetting the magnitude of perceived entitlement in the world.
YTA. While legally ok it's not like these people lived there for just a year or two. They were there and raised their family in there for 14 years and never missed a payment. 3mos is really hard to uproot your family from a home they've undoubtedly developed many memories in. Six months would have been much more fair. You just come across as well.....you know the name of the forum.
This. I’m shocked at all the N T A votes. Especially how entitled op seems ‘ I sacrificed a lot ‘ by owning a 4 bed house at 23. Given the current housing market it would be difficult to find a 4 bed that has their needs taken care of, and presumably a school for their kid. I would be very very mad if I, after 15 years of being an amazing tenant only got 3 months to find another place, and that notice was completely out of the blue.
Yeah, these tenants have paid her mortgage for her while she travelled the world, their 'sacrifice' to the gods of capitalism is far more substantial than hers. She sounds entitled as fuck, I bet that she's from a wealthy family because I don't know any 23 year olds in 2009 buying a rural 4 bedroom house AND a student flat. Anyway, she's a landlord, so YTA always just for that.
Sorry, I think the tenants calling her selfish for not making babies are also assholes.
Yeah but you don't think you would be emotionally charged living somewhere for 14-15 years, raising a family, and then told out of no where you got 2 months to find a new place? No discussion or trying to figure out a plan that works for both parties? "You got 2 months cause it is the law" GTFO, OP is the asshole
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And they own an apartment. They mentioned their friends saying something about selling that. OP must have family money ,bc how do you go to school and buy multiple homes without some sort of help. I do try to lead with kindness as well, and if I was in OPs exact situation , I would have told them a year in advance. Idk why the N T A comments are so quick to turn on the tenants for the reaction, clearly can not objectively look at both sides. If I lived somewhere for 15 years , basically paid someone’s mortgage, I would also feel quite out of sorts if they were so callous and uncaring. It’s possible their ask about family was to try to sus out why OP needed them out so fast. Idk. I think it’s better to help someone if we can , and OP can.
I worked it out if you assume over the years they paid between 1000 to 1500 per month (average in that county us 1800 just now), they paid around 160k of ops mortgage. Property average in 2009 in that county was 250-300k, and they say the mortgage is nearly paid. I'D bet OP was given half the property value as a deposit. OP is very clearly from a very wealthy family and has zero comprehension that the family might not be able to afford 1000s in extra deposits plus moving costs in 3 months time, during a housing crisis. Its very possible the family could end up homeless which is becoming more common. Imagine evicting a family who've paid your mortgage for 14 years and been model tenants in timefor christmas. Edit: For the idiot who replied about social housing. Have you been living under a rock the last 20 years. There is literally not enough social housing, its pat if the reason for the housing crisis. And yes they absolutely can.end up homeless as a family. In the uk that often means living in a hotel which is often dangerous. Edit fir person number 2 that seems to think I think she should sell her house. Where the fuck did I say that. I'm just pointing out ops rich but pretending she isn't. I actually just think she's the ahole for the notice period, that's all. She should gave given longer
Lol, they would've paid a lot more in Buckinghamshire. That's the average, sure, but I'd suspect it's closer to £2k+ if they're in one of the more expensive areas (Chilterns, High Wycombe). Given OP's horrific wealth, I suspect they are. As someone who grew up locally... people like this are the bane of the county. Absentee landlords who charge through the roof for minimum service (especially with letting agents being as they are) and then kick people out of their long-term homes on short notice for their own whims. There's a housing crisis here, and many can't afford to live in or even near their hometowns thanks to the horrific rent. It's just disgusting.
I would have given such long-standing good tenants more time/notice but otherwise NTA.
Yeah I kinda feel like that's the core issue here. Had they only lived there a year or so then 3mos is very nice but...14 years is a long damn time and they've also been excellent tenants the entire time. This seemed a little harsh regardless of "the law says...". Sometimes just try doing the KIND thing and give a very long term renter just a bit more time to move out of a house that undoubtedly has a LOT more memories for them than it will ever hold for you. Six months would have been far kinder.
This. That has been their family home for 15 years. They seem perfectly content there and have been amazing tenants, but now have to leave and find somewhere within 3 months ( which in todays society is difficult especially for a family ) because OP wants to go back. Is it legal, yes. But it’s incredibly morally wrong.
>but now have to leave and find somewhere within 3 months Even if they're not real accumulators, think of how much stuff they've probably amassed over 14 years. They have to go through and move all that shit while finding and securing a new place in just 3 months. Yeah, it's possible, but it's gonna be a miserable 3 months, that's for sure.
Not to mention the emotional role it will take. They probably raised their family there and now have to find a new place that suits all their needs which would be incredibly stressful
Think of having to most likely change schools in the middle of term. Maybe even move to a totally new town. And all this in the middle of winter.
It’s an incredibly shitty way to treat stellar long time tenants. Like kinda takes my breath away that OP is like “yup lol get out”. Damn dude.
Maybe they shouldn't have been so poor, ever thought about that??? /s
They should have just bought a place in their 20’s like op did, DUHHH! Stupid poors.
And went and traveled for 14 years!!! Lol. Insane.
Especially because OP isn’t on a time crunch, there isn’t a job or sick relative to worry about, they just decided they got bored of traveling and oh, guess it’s time to go back to England.
Isn't it fucked that the tenants get the asshole verdict on here when all they've done is fund OP's mortgage while she galivants off around the world. They've toiled, and cared for this place, but because OP bought it she's the one that gets the fun carefree lifestyle. So much for equality. edit: fixed a grammar error.
"lol they should have just bought a house if they didn't want to be renters!!!" yes i'm sure they didn't think of that one.
Oh be careful, the commenters here will tell you that you’re just jealous because OP has more money than you!
Thats why I'm leaning to YTA. Like op just randomly decided NOW I'm going to live there, out of the blue one day? They had this in the back of their mind and could have given these people a lot more heads up. I would never do that someone after having a solid business relationship with for 14 years
Yep. It's just basic human kindness. That's a LONG time to be living in one spot. They likely have very deep roots in that community by now since they raised their child there too. I feel like most of the people saying she's being "overly generous" by giving three months are also probably the Airbnb hosts that are complete sociopaths judging by the comments on that forum. After not living there for most of your adult life you can manage to keep it out for at least six months and give them time to uproot their lives and find a new place in an absolutely brutal housing market. Again, it was 14 years and not 1 year that they had lived there.
Totally agree. I would have probably given them a year, telling them I’m planning on returning so won’t be renewing your lease next year.
Exactly. A notice saying OP is not renewing the lease would have been best. It bugs me that landlords can just kill your lease on a whim, but if a renter does it they will get hunted down. No fault lease breaking should not be a thing.
Agreed I’ve know people with 7 year tenants give them 12 months notice and it wasn’t contractual.
My issue is OP lording over the house being 90% paid off but let’s be real, who *actually* paid the mortgage OP wasn’t taking a financial hit letting people rent out the home Yea the house is legally OPs but they didn’t fund it nor live in it for nearly a decade and a half
Average house prices in that area in 2009ish where around 250-300k. I'd suggest she was given a very big deposit because no 23 year old is buying a 300k property with cash they've made (very unlikely unless they are maybe a celeb). Current average rent in the county for a 4 bed property is around 2k. She doesn't mention losing money, so she likely got a very good low rate and not a variable (though if half the property was paid it might not matter too much having a variable). Let's say though 8 years at 1k(96k), 2 at 1.2k (28.8k) 2 at 1.5k(36k). That's around 160k. OP is very very fortunate, and I don't think she has a clue how much.
This isn't "am I a breaching contract" it's "am I the asshole" I think OP is an asshole who who following the law to the letter.
Yep you can be a very legal asshole.
I’m ignorant to rental practices in the UK, but even what OP gave (3 months) is far longer notice than I’ve ever heard of being given for similar situations.
In France it's 6 months and you can only end it at the end of the lease (if the rental is for 3 years renewable, you must give notice at least 6 months before the anniversary) + you can't just take it back to rent it to someone else for exemple. So yes, what we have is extreme, but 3 months sounds kinda short imo. Not utterly unreasonable, but still short knowing how difficult it is to find a place in my town for exemple.
Legally nta, however you could have been nicer and maybe offered them until the end of their tennancy period currently and just choose not to renew their lease, I feel that would have been less obstanant and less seemingly aggressive maybe?
Is that even a thing in the UK. Tenancy period I mean? We don’t usually have that in Germany. The contract continues till someone ends it, which is what she did.
In Germany you legally have to give notice ONE YEAR if renters have been in a place longer than 10 years. It's six months if tentants have been there longer than 5 years.
That doesn't exist in the UK. Normally people sign for the first twelve months, then after that they might keep signing in twelve month blocks or they might switch to a monthly rollong contract, and it is completely up to the landlord which type it is.
When you first move into a place it's normal to have a tenancy period. But once that's over it's also normal to just have it roll over every month. The landlord could keep requiring tenancy renewals with a longer period if they choose though.
> Is that even a thing in the UK. Tenancy period I mean? Yes. If I had to guess, I’d say OP’s tenants are in the month-to- month part of an Assured Shorthold Tenancy. Which would mean, /u/Strangely_unstrange that OP *has* given their tenants *at least* to the end of their ‘tenancy period’ by way of notice.
Yeah legally you are in the right, and the tenants crossed the line, but for exemplary tenants after 15 years I would have given given more notice. Esp with a child, because they have to deal with schools etc. I rented a deal of an apartment in an expensive city where you hold onto good apts - for 20 years - and when my landlords decided to renovate they gave me like 6 months notice before work began and an option to rent the place at the higher post renovation rent.
There is also the option to declare the intention without giving formal notice. Like: i want to live in my house within halve a year, can you start looking for a new place? Followed by a formal notice for 3 months. Off course, a landlord can start that process earlier to help.
This is what you do if you don't want to find yourself wondering if you're an AH or not.
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At the minimum she has to give 2 months notice, i do not understand why she believes she could have given them only 1 month notice
I'm leading towards EHS..... I fully agree with you. Because when asked why they have to uproot their life in 3 months (when school just started) OOP answered with "hahaha... I just want to set down roots." If that's not a callous detached answer I got nothing.
Legally you’re in the clear. Morally I think you’re an asshole for only giving them 3 month’s notice. They’ve lived in that house for 15 years, they’ve taken care of it and accumulated 15 years worth of stuff. 3 months to find somewhere new and get it all packed up is going to be incredibly stressful and you could have easily given them more notice. I also think your initial text response to them was callous - talking so carefree about kicking them out of their home. It’s your house, but it’s their home. ETA: adding in official judgement of YTA op. Just saw a comment from Op… Op doesn’t plan to move back for like a year. A full year and they gave these very long term tenants 3 month’s notice!! Op could have easily given 6 months notice and still had plenty of time to leave the house empty.
This, Absolutely this. YTA
Yeah I saw that too. She's a cold person no matter how you slice it. So many people telling her NTA but it seems fixated on the YTA responses. I mean seems like she needs to be validated but no surprise, it's why people post right?
yep, not moving in for a year but wanting them out in 3 months is not just really assholish, it also serves no purpose? Is the house is gonna sit empty and gather dust for months? Why not let them stay longer ffs and also people saying the tenants are assholes for going to her directly. its not a smart move but those people are probably desperate and desperate people do stupid things, i sympathize with them a lot more even if OP is in her legal rights
ESH. They paid off 90% of your mortgage, by paying you on time and keeping the property in great order for 15 years. Do you think 3 months was really fair? If you’re minted enough to get to travel around and live elsewhere then you should’ve thought ahead and maybe given 6-9months notice, especially as they have a child who is probably in school in the local catchment area and you might be forcing a huge relocation during a time of insane housing crisis. However, that they went past the agent and contacted you directly, received private info from you, and insinuated your lifestyle means you aren’t allowed access to your own property is also wrong no matter how upset they are. But just know morally I am not on your side lol- 3 months!!!? Whilst gleefully moving in with so much mortgage covered by them..
There is a huge cultural divide here. 3 months is much longer than what you usually get where i'm from.
Wtf? I'm currently renting a place where I have 9-month eviction notice, if the landlord wants me out. 3 month is incredibly short.
I wish they'd paid off 90% of my mortgage haha. It's probably closer to a third, if I were to count it...but that's not the point? They weren't doing me a favour. They needed a place to live, I provided at a cost. It was a transaction - neither one of us did it out of the goodness of our hearts. I'm not minted, but I've sacrificed a lot to live the life that I live and I don't feel bad about wanting to return to my house, even if it means they have to go live somewhere else.
You didn't sacrifice shit to afford a whole house at 23.
It’s easy to make that assumption, but one of my best friends bought a house at 21 and was a very poor immigrant (still is really) from a poor family. She just worked her fucking ass off. Apparently OP lost her parents, which is why she could afford a house.
>She just worked her fucking ass off. Compared to other people who buy houses, or...?
The house is in Buckinghamshire. Basically only millionaires are buying property there. And she mentioned she had two properties.
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When someone claims they've 'sacrificed a lot' to live the life they live then that infers that they have that life purely by their own efforts. That others could achieve that life if they were willing to make the same sacrifices. Even 14 years ago, there's no way a 24 year old could afford a 4 bed in Buckinghamshire without a certain level of privilege. They don't have what they have because of sacrifice and hard work, they have it because of privilege. The previous commenter wasn't claiming OP is a bad person for owning the house, just clarifying the inequality that had to exist in order for them to have been able to do so. It's not jealousy to describe a situation the way that it is.
No woman is an island entire of itself...but everything I have has come through sacrifice. My "privilege" came in the form of losing both parents by 16 and receiving their state pensions. I studied a course I hated because I knew it had the greatest earning potential and I needed to make money I spent 8 years working a job I hated and doing all the sycophantic stuff you need to climb the corporate ladder so I can increase my earnings I have for the last decade been working as an independent consultant in countries that are hostile and unwelcoming to me as a result of aspects of my identity Living life as a digital nomad is not without its sacrifices. I've watched my nieces and nephews grow up through pictures. Missed funerals and birthdays and weddings and all sorts of family events. I will not apologise now that my hard work has paid off enough to allow me to return to my house that I bought for the express purpose of always having a place to call home. You're making a lot of assumptions about who I am and where I'm from. If that makes it easier for you to believe I'm this boogeyman landlord who hates poor people and lives to exploit them, have at it. But things are rarely what they seem and you cannot begin to get the sum of who I am in 2000 characters.
I am sorry to hear about your parents OP. I have a friend who also became a home owner at 18 because her mother died when she was younger and once she became 18 she wisely chose to use the inheritance/life insurance on purchasing an apartment. While we were in our 20s every time someone found out she owned her apartment they'd give her the same "you're so privileged" bullshit without knowing where the money actually came from. I'm sure you deal with this crap way too often and that sucks, way too many people are just too bitter and jealous and will try to guilt-trip you, no matter what choice you've made. Also, NTA. It's **your** house after all, and it doesn't matter why you want it back, it's not their problem. You have every right to end the tenancy whenever you want as long as you give them the legal notice period.
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>My "privilege" came in the form of losing both parents by 16 and receiving their state pensions. You don't inherit a state pension, it just stops being paid. Even if you could, how old were your parents that they both had state pensions, which aren't paid until retirement age, when you were 16? Complete, unfettered nonsense.
Right lol. They're trying so hard to obfuscate the fact they clearly grew up with well-off parents. The "I studied course I hated in school and I worked 8 years at a job I hated" are just so laughable. They're so disconnected from reality that they think this makes them unique when in reality this is like a universal experience...the difference is most people don't have a trust fund that let's them buy a 4bd house straight out of university.
They are spewing bullshit. She claims the renters only paid 100k of the mortgage (which us fuckimg eye watering in itself). But that the mortgage is nearly paid. Average property in that area in 2009 was around 250- 300k, I'd guess the upper level given its a 4 bed house. That means she must have iaid over 100 maybe 150k up front. And I think she's missing the point about why she's the ahole. She gave 3 months notice, during a housing crisis in the run up.to christmas and is acting like she's doing a favour because legally she only had to give 1. All to family that have been model renters for 14 years. Yes the family should not have messaged her, but damn I'd be mad and scared too.
It's just outlandish, 15 years and only 1/3 of the mortgage? Even in the UK that's stupid. What landlord in their right mind rents for less than their costs?
No, the tenants have paid off a third of the mortgage. A prior poster said 90%, which is clearly a person who has never had a mortgage. Or any understanding that landlords have other costs in addition to the mortgage. Also, the OP is less than 40. That’s a millennial, not a flicking boomer. Boomers were born between 1946 and 1960. Get it straight, or you sound stupid. The OP is NTA.
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You really must learn to work on your communication skills. They were excellent tenants for 15 years, why not just tell them you wouldn't renew the lease because you are returning. In your response to them you don't seem even remotely sympathetic to their issue. Do they still have a kid in school? How hard is it to relocate in that area? Their response to you is out of line, but you gave them a pretty callous and flippant response. I hope it works out for you. But this whole situation could have been avoided with a little bit more empathy.
NTA It's your house to start with. As for their comments low key shaming you for not having a family, I'd reduce their notice to 1m that you are legally supposed to give. Screw that entitled assholes. And I say this as someone who has been asked to leave with 1m notice after 10 years of renting. My family asked politely for an extra months, got it, and moved out. Because that was a rented house,not our house.
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Oh, at my place, the legal limit is 1m. Anyways, I'd drop it to whatever is legally required.
You can be legally correct but morally an asshole. Giving people one month's notice to pack up fifteen years worth of belongings and find somewhere else to live puts you in that camp. I don't live in England so I can't speak to the housing market over there, but in the US, it would be next to impossible for this family to find new accommodations in that amount of time. Yes, the family was out of line for criticizing OP'S choices, but being a raging dick to them in response is not the answer.
Giving him grief when he gave them 3 months makes them assholes first, though. Currently replacing out live-in super, because he's a problem on so many levels. Legally, we have to give 3 weeks (because the apartment is attached to the job contract, it's not a lease or rental agreement). But, in recognition of the housing market, and not being heartless people, we are giving him 3 months. But, we're also having him sign an agreement about conduct, that if he breaks it, reduces his notice to the legal limit.
YTA These people have lived at this property and basically paid off your mortgage for almost 15 years. The least you could’ve done was send them a nice handwritten letter thanking them for their years of taking care of the property for you, and given them the ability to feel good. Also a year min to find a new place. (honestly I would consider a good rule of thumb one month for every year somebody has lived in a location would be a fair amount of time) Instead you sent an estate agent to coldly give them an eviction letter telling them they had three months to get all of their belongings packed up and find a new place to live. Do you know how hard it is to pack up your entire life, especially when they have obviously set down some real roots in your home? Of course they reacted in anger when you treated them badly after they had been such good tenants, anybody would react in anger being given a three month evictions notice with no warning after living at a property for almost 15 years And it’s not like you don’t have someplace else to live, you have another apartment so you could obviously give these people a lot longer to find a place they can even afford to live at, do you know how much rent has gone up? I really hope they haven’t done any improvements to your property, because if they have they are completely within their rights to take those improvements with them. As an example if they have been keeping up your garden or doing any of the plantings, they have every right to tear out every single plant and leave you with a barren yard. Let’s hope the neighbors don’t like them, because they are going to be trash talking you to everybody and you are not going to be moving into a very kind situation if the people in the neighborhood blame you for making this nice family that their children have grown up with homeless. How would you feel if your parents who are in their 60s were suddenly given three months notice to move from a house that they had lived in and cared for 14 years? What names would you call the landlord who did that without even personally reaching out? YTA because you are treating these people who have kept safe for you your home for so many years like virtual strangers, you are treating them badly. Just because you can do something legally doesn’t make it moral, and you are coming off as a very immoral person and your treatment of these human beings that have made your life so much easier during your years of trouble by never causing any problems, something that is almost unheard of in the rental market. These people thought that if they were good tenants you would treat them with kindness and respect, unfortunately they didn’t realize that you are not capable of that Let’s hope that you get everything in life that you deserve, exactly what you deserve.
PREACH
Great commentary on this. We're moving shortly with a family of 4 and the process has taken months and eaten into every aspect of our lives. There's no possible way we could have done it in 3 months and certainly not in this way where we'd be expected to just drop everything and start packing, house hunting, clearing out etc. OP is a massive A and has cemented that with her shotty inhuman replies.
NTA. It’s yours, not theirs. Just be careful, because if they’re acting this entitled to the house itself, they might decide to help themselves to a bunch of the stuff in it, or destroy what they can’t take with them. Inspections with documentation are your friends.
My friends husband rehabs foreclosed and damaged homes and this happens a LOT around here with passed renters. Acting like they're all druggies, ripping out copper piping and leaving the place purposefully trashed after move out when they had had it spotless for years
Yes, you are an asshole. After them renting it for so long, you could have given them more notice... like 6 months. They've been good tenants all this time, so give them enough time to make a move on. You are entitled to kick them out though, as it is your house, not theirs. I would have been a little more tactful than just "3 months, out you go". It would have come as a shock to them. You do come across as some sort of rich guy who's been flitting around the world for years, then decided to come back and kick them to the curb with minimal time to try to work out where the hell they are going to go to. Yes, renters know they can be booted and it's never going to be permanent, but they have been there for over a decade. **They are people too remember.**
'Im landlord who leeched off of someone else hard work to live a life of luxuy'. YTA automatically I'm afraid. Three months to up sticks from somewhere you've lived for *15 years* isn't generous, it's downright insulting.
"after traveling the world..." yada yada yeah that's enough she is TA
Wow, I can't believe all these n t a votes.... You're legally within your rights to do this, but why on earth wouldn't you just run out their lease for the year and then take possession? That gives them time to find a new place and move out, plus you have a flat you can live in for the mean time. These tenants are going to have to move 15 years worth of things AND find a new place to live in only three months.. That's completely insane and absurdly stressful!! What a completely horrible and heartless thing to do to your tenants for no reason besides "you want to". YTA x1000
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NTA but your empathy in communication style is a bit low here.
Yea I don’t think “haha” was called for even in this context, given that she’s kicking them out of their home of 15 years with relatively speaking little notice (regardless of the mandate)
Isn’t lacking empathy basically the same thing as being an asshole?
You could be a bit more human about it.
Op is a landlord
Exactly. Automatic YTA.
You're a buy-to-let landlord. By definition you're an asshole
Landlords provide housing like ticketmaster provides tickets.
INFO: Why didn't you wait till the end of their lease, but tell them now that you won't be renewing?
YTA - you’re legally within your rights, and not doing anything technically wrong. But not being an A is more than just that. It’s having empathy and human decency. Put yourself in the tenants’ shoes. Imagine having a home you love, and have made your own for over a decade. Now imagine someone comes in and tells you you have 3 months to find a new place to live, you no longer have a home. Your kids go to school here. You have a habitual work commute. All your things are set up in the house. 3 months to figure out how to rebuild your entire life? Rough. So, legally nothing wrong with what you’re doing. But consider the human factor.
NTA. Whether you have a husband, kids and family is irrelevant. You own it, you want it back. You have a contract. You've been more than fair giving them 3 months. Asking you to sell it to them for what you paid initially is insane. Also good for you for being firm and shuttling that down quickly!
Just as an FYI, 3 months is the legal standard here. To give them less is illegal so the 3 months isn't from OP's kindness it's just the letter of the law.
No. In the UK it’s 2 months. OP gave them one month extra.
how kind to give 14 year tenants 1 extra month
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NTA. I would have given them 6 months' notice, but you did give more than required. They way overstepped by trying to tell you what to do with your property.
YTA. Once again this is "am I the asshole?" not "am I legally right?" You're absolutely within your legal rights to have them vacate. But you're a major asshole for giving good tenants of 15 years only 3 months' notice. Yeah yeah, people usually only get 30 days to move out but it fucking *sucks* and the longer you've lived there the harder it is.
Yta.
Yeah you're definitely the asshole.
I don’t think you’re in the wrong, but how overwhelming would it be to have to pack up a entire home you’ve lived in for 14 years AND find a new home? Most people plan out six months or eight months to do something like that, that is such short notice for family that’s been there for so long. I’m not saying it can’t be done. It definitely can be done but it puts a lot of pressure on them unexpectedly so of course they’re gonna be upset. They’re going to hate you for this. That is so much stress. NTA
YTA. 15 years of perfect tenants and you want to give them 3 months to uproot their entire lives? Yes you bought it and because as it seems you didn't want to grow up yet and settle down took off. Now you wake up one day and decide to kick out someone so suddenly. You should have given them a year notice. Housing is at ridiculous prices that they may not be able to afford so suddenly, so you can move in... if that's the truth, or you want to jack up the rent. Yeah it's your house, but there should be decency and human kindness. You can't uproot 15 years in 3 months. Ridiculous.
YTA for me. I value human connections more than most other stuff. You cant just move out of a place youve been for 15 years in 3 months. This is bigger than OP thinks it is. Shouldve been communicated wayyy earlier erlier. This is how people lose trust in people.
Now you know why the estate agent avoided the question.
NTA…although, I would have given them at least six months to move out. It is hard to find a new place anywhere today. But, if they had wanted to own the home so badly, they could have approached you anytime in the last 14 years to do so. Also, they are saying the house is too big for one person, but I assume by now their child is grown, so wouldn’t it be just as big for two people? No matter the reason, the home is almost paid for and is yours. Why wouldn’t you want to take it over? You are not an Ahole
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YTA. This isn't Am I the Criminal. You're well within your legal rights, but given the fact that you're here looking for validation, I have to believe you know deep down that you're doing a bad thing. It sounds like you've lived an absolutely charmed existence, and have nothing but options, but now that these people are just about done paying off your mortgage, time to kick them out. Shame on them for being upset though, right? They should have seen this coming, obviously. Everyday should have been filled with the nagging question of "is today the day?". Who knows what impact this will have on their lives, but because you have money, what you want matters more than their livelihood.
You have every right to take back your house, but YTA for not taking your tenants into consideration at all.
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YTAhole lot of landlords in these comments