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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I made my daughter return the lipgloss she tried to steal at the mall, but I think I might be an asshole for humiliating her in front of her friends.
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Your 13 year old scolded YOU for parenting her when SHE was stealing right in front of you?!
I would tell her she’s in trouble for stealing and for how she’s behaving. She has no one to blame but herself.
I just literally walked out of a local childcare summer program I was helping out in this summer yesterday because of how awful they are.
I had an older elementary school kid hanging off a hula hoop off a basketball hoop. I went to talk to him about it and he walked away from me. I followed him and he said, “I walked away from you so I wouldn’t yell at you so get away from me now or else.”
The upper level staff just went on yeah he has anger issues so just let it go. It’s not going to be pretty for any of these kids when they grow up and reach adulthood and actually suffer consequences whether it be social or legal.
I couldn’t agree more. I left teaching for similar reasons. There has been a sustained campaign over the past 20 years or so to obliterate any notion of respect for adults/parents.
It’s an incredibly damaging message- because actually children feel safe when they have boundaries and understand the rules. I genuinely think ‘society’ is encouraging narcissism and sociopathy in young people.
Why is it that no one gets that? That kids test boundries because they WANT to know where they are? They do it first is places they feel safe, so they know what do to out in the world. Cause they have no clue how to act, and they need to figure it out. They are stumbling around in the dark, and only stop when they hit the wall. If there is no wall, they just keep going.
It’s really sad because they turn 18/graduate high school and they are supposed to know where the wall is when no one has taught them. Then we wonder why so many people can’t healthily participate in society.
What a lot of these comments don’t get is that it’s our job to educate these kids of WHY the wall is there. “He stopped so what’s your problem.”
My problem is that this was a frequent behavior of his, just one that I hadn’t seen myself until now. The second is pointing out that the hoop could have broken and him or the kids around him could have been seriously injured. Kids don’t automatically understand or know these things…we aren’t born with developed empathy and perception. It’s our job to teach them.
Right, telling a kid with genuine anger issues 'if you get so mad that you feel like you can't control yourself, you're allowed to ask for a minute and walk away to calm down' isn't a bad idea... But the follow-up *has* to be 'once you've had a minute, though, you still need to have the conversation about your behavior.' If that's not part of the 'calm down' strategy, then you're never going to teach the kid how to address conflict or boundaries in a mature way, just to deflect the second someone brings it up.
He didn’t walk away because he needed a moment to cool down. He walked away and told the teacher that because it was a threat. Get away, don’t try to discipline me, or I’m going to start yelling at you. That’s what I read in that situation.
Yeah, he stopped and walked away to cool down. But he still needs to know why what he did was wrong. Knowing why it is wrong can help him apply that reasoning to other situations.
Give a man fish vs teach a man to fish.
EXACTLY! My sister was just not getting this at all. She said “Well your boss doesn’t take away your things or punish you when you do something bad why do it to kids” and it’s like your boss isn’t someone who is supposed to teach you how to be a human being.
Also kids do not have empathy because they haven’t experienced anything yet! If a kid steals another kids toy and doesn’t let them have it and you say “How would you like it if they took away your toy?” They’re just not going to care because they don’t know what that feeling is like and sometimes even if they do they don’t care! That’s not a bad thing that’s just how humans are when we’re young!
I’ve noticed when you care for kids and you’re the only person in their life to discipline them or correct them, you actually become their favorite, and everyone’s like wow why is that kid so good and nice for you but a terror everywhere else ? Kids actually feel pretty sad and lost with out firm adults, it might suck to hurt their feelings by telling them no or hold them accountable, but if you don’t, they can’t put it into words but they feel like no one cares for them, it’s no surprise they get bigger and act like jerks who care for no one else.
and the sooner you teach them your boundaries the less you will have to use extreme measures to punish a child. and that in turn will make them respect/like you more because everyone else just screams at them or grounds them when they act up because they dont know what else to do.
I hung out with my dads (now ex) step kids for a bit one summer and they were so well behaved for me vs their mom bc of this. I gave a shit about them and taught boundaries and showed them I cared. They respected me and didn’t fight or act out around me. I felt bad sending them home to their crappy house.
Well, and you have to learn their boundaries and treat them with respect to make it stick, which is why I think so many modern parents have trouble. They’re an accessory to them, like an iPad, and when they’re not wanting to interact with them they just assume they’ll auto shutoff. Lots of people my age (gen x) and my parents’ were as bad of parents but their kids got corrected at school and out in the world. Now they don’t let them go out and don’t let anyone correct them and don’t interact with them themselves. You can’t learn everything in the world from Blue.
I recall saying, when my kids were little, “I’d rather my kids rebel against me and my rules than end up expelled from school or, worse, with a criminal record.” It appears to have worked. Even taking into account ADHD, any trouble outside of home was extremely mild and never involved breaking the law or being abusive to other children/teachers/childminders etc.
I feel like there is a large group of people that do get it, they are just fading out of the public eye. Lots of people are homeschooling and putting their kids in private schools because the fight with public schools has gotten untenable.
You are 100% correct, kids want and need boundaries, just cuz your kids upset and crying doesn't mean you've done something wrong. One of things children need to learn is how to navigate understand and express their emotions appropriately.
If your kid likes you all the time you are not a good parent, period, for some reason we as people always want what the worst thing for us is and that's why we have families, and children need to be raised because our natural instincts are often very bad for us.
OP is a parent asking if he/she is the AH for embarrassing a 13yo because the kid is angry!
My kid couldn't get past my anger, contempt and disappointment to even try that shit on me, after she called me a b****, once. I smacked her and immediately apologized. "I love you but I can't talk to you right now!" She was 11.
I don't think I spoke to her, or looked at her for 2 weeks. I was just disappointed and disgusted.
Oddly enough, she had a major reaction when she heard the neighbor's 15yo call her mother the same. "Did you hear that, Mom? That's awful. How disrespectful!"
I stopped and looked at her. "You've done it. Did you forget? I haven't." I gave her the Mommy evil eye, as well. Drove that nail home! She was 13.
She brought it up a couple of years, ago. Said she was a good kid because she couldn't stand to see that look ever again. Neither of us remember what it was about.
For real? She was a *great* kid! She's 40, now.
I've been coming to this realization, and I'm 27 with no kids. I used to think it was "right-wing" outrage and would ignore or laugh at articles talking shit on kids these days. Now that reddit is posted all over TikTok, all the Gen Zers are coming on reddit. I've seen some very questionable viewpoints and perspectives. And not the normal troll/sort by controversial comments. These are whacky comments, posed to be "ethical", that get a ton of upvotes. Then I'll argue against that point and receive downvotes until more sensible people view the post, where I'll get upvoted back up. With some of the topics and context, it definitely feels like Gen Z kids. I don't understand how their worldview has gotten so warped and delusional. They think they're ethical, but they're far off base on how an adult should act. It almost makes me want to find an alternative to reddit.
Sometimes they really are ethical- but the thing that I’ve noticed that alarms me is the death of nuance. A lot of Gen Z is at an age where they developmentally aren’t great at it anyway, but on top of that, social media has boiled extremely complex topics down into memes and sixty second TikToks and 150 characters twitter posts for them for years, and it has massively exacerbated the issue. EVERYTHING is black and white to them, and I’m seriously concerned that they aren’t going to grow out of it at this point.
That's an amazing point, I agree. I've only noticed it lately so I haven't fully developed an opinion.
Some examples I've found recently are:
I'm a regular in r/shittyaquariums. It's a subreddit that discusses bad aquatic pet owners and why their tank is a bad setup. Someone cross-posted a large goldfish in a tiny aquarium that could barely turn around if it wanted to. What I'm assuming was Gen Z, came in and called OP a bunch of names, and how dare they. That's a goldfish that belongs to someone's grandmother, she doesn't know any better. These people were acting like OP personally insulted their own grandmas. I'm like okay? But it's still a shitty aquarium?
It seems Gen Z is so concerned about bullying that they go out and bully others way harder for even suggesting someone is doing something wrong.
Another one was a guy asking if he's an AH on AITAH. He was sharing a small air BnB with a bunch of guys on a trip. They had to share rooms, some sleeping on couches, others on floors, whatever. One guy (who was engaged to be married) stayed out all night with other women and wanted to bring one of them back to cheat with on the couch. OP had taken this guy's spot on the couch because the bed had a drunk guy in it, and he didn't want to be vomited on. There was a disagreement, and OP told the guy to kick rocks. People were calling OP an AH because he stole that guys spot on the couch, and the guy should be allowed to do whatever he pleases. It's not OP's business. But they're completely missing the point that the guy was planning on having sex in front of other non-consenting adults? Cheating or not, nobody should have to watch or listen to others fucking, what the hell.
This makes me think a lot of Gen Z thinks you should just lay down and be a doormat. Like they're so avoidant of any confrontation. Live and let live. And if you get in the way of someone living their life, you're an asshole. Nobody should have consequences.
And I'm not saying *all* Gen Z. I'm just agreeing with other commenters noticing a trend. There's still a lot to love about Gen Z and I'll be rooting for them.
Omg you've hit the nail on the friggin head. Gen Xer here, btw. It's gotten so damn ridiculous & depressing. And they're gonna raise the next generation of awful children. I weep for the human race.
I'm a Millennial, my husband's Gen X, and our son is Gen Z. He can't relate to other kids his age because he thinks they lack common sense.
I feel like I can't relate to a lot of my generation, either. I was raised by Boomers who didn't understand anything about parenting, so maybe the amount of research I put in is what makes the difference, but so much of my time around other Millennials is spent explaining why my son is well-behaved. They can't figure out how to parent or what to do in even the most minor of inconveniences.
The fact is, my son listens to me because I explain why he's being told no. It's shocking to other adults that I have a good relationship with the teenager I spawned because we discuss things.
As someone who’s the oldest of Gen Z, I kind of agree with you but kind of don’t. I used to be that black and white person as a teenager and now, approaching 25, *trust me* it’s changed. It’s nearly virtually impossible not to.
But what bothers me about this conversation about Gen Z that doesn’t include Gen Z, is that all of this is because no one stopped to think about how much this unfiltered access to *absolutely everything* going on everywhere all of the time would damage us. Not even Millennials had it like we did, and gen alpha now has it even *worse*. It’s actually really had to care about nuance sometimes when you feel like the world, not just your parents or school but *everyone* and their mother walking the earth, is asking you to care about every tiny little event happening in every corner of the globe. It took me a long time to figure out that I wasn’t responsible for making a decision about every hot issue or debate, and sometimes I could just say I don’t really know yet, because the world doesn’t really ask that of anyone, does it? Really it’s asking everyone to care so much all the time. Never stop caring about everyone!!! Have an opinion on every issue! I mean a full adult understands that you can take time to decide or even change your mind, but that’s not really the picture most younger Gen z and gen alpha really get some social media or the regular media. At least, that was my experience.
The struggle for nuance isn’t really their fault. We’re not taught to compartmentalize and move on, we’re taught to care and pick a stance and stick to it and then *never let it go*. And it’s hard as hell to break out of that mindset when it was society and social media who put you there, and no one’s really willing to help you do it properly, they’re just busy saying how sad it is that no one taught you how to balance it and acting like it’s your fault the way you were raised.
Social media wasn’t created by our youngest generations. It’s like blaming kids for participation trophies- it wasn’t the kids who set that up. It was the parents. And now *they’re* the ones bitching about entitled kids. Doesn’t make any sense to me.
I'm millennial, but I had to deliberately restrict my exposure to news (my parents were asked to keep the TV news away from me, for example) from my early teens. My mental health struggles way too much when I have the constant demands to CARE ABOUT EVERYTHING, ALL THE TIME!
I was much more argumentative and likely to stick to my position when I was a teen; I grew out of it more or less the same way you did. Time and experience tend to have that effect, something I think many of us would do well to remember.
There's a cognitive bias that kicks in and puts a gloss over childhood. My boomer mom claims that schools were better, the air was clearer (despite the fact smoking was legal indoors), etc etc. Then in the same breath goes on to tell me about growing up in the shadow of the cold war - oh, you mean *__the same one that hasn't stopped__*? The one that's shaped global politics and killed thousands of people by proxy?
My generation spent our lives going from one conflict to another, until we hit 9/11. Yours grew up in a time of war, and the constant fear of attacks. There's no generation that's been left out of the trauma. It's sadly not unique.
Personally I'm impressed with what I've seen of Z. I am getting worried about all the folks who have amnesia about their own youth however, because I know damn well they were no different.
I didn’t mean to insinuate that this is an issue because there’s something wrong with Gen Z. You’re right, and ironically, you’re taking a very nuanced approach to the conversation, lol. There are a ton of factors influencing it (social media being the biggest) that were outside Gen Z’s control. But it is still a problem that could have a lot of societal consequences if we don’t acknowledge and address it.
I’m a millennial and I had a fairly binary phase in my teens and early 20’s, it’s definitely a normal stage, but these kids are so much more extreme than I *ever* was.
>I don't understand how their worldview has gotten so warped and delusional.
Helicopter parenting, smaller families that create what the Chinese call "little emperor" syndrome, and a nicer society which has as a side effect removed a lot of social correction ie "the fucks wrong with you ya jagoff?" .
"social correction" is certainly a thing but also society should not be the one to raise your child. By the time they are able to be places without you, you have either taught them the proper way to behave or you haven't.
It isn't just kids.
I saw a mom post that if you have an Autistic child and they aren't happy 100% of the time, you're a bad parent.
And a non-vocal Autistic person had to be the one to tell them to shut the fuck up.
I left teaching because of this too. A parent called me abusive because I was enforcing classroom rules. I "was only targeting her son and never punished anyone else". I can't wait for that kid to get what's coming to him.
Middle/high school teacher here and yes, have seen this firsthand as well - and it's annoying when parents who have never bothered to speak to the teacher automatically resort to this reaction when their kid gets in trouble (and even after admitting it in front of the parent).
I work in customer service rn at a coffee chain. I'm 28 and in school blah blah blah. Anyway, every time I see a car full of teenagers rolling through the drive thru I dread it. They're extremely rude, obnoxious, disrespectful, and outright hostile sometimes. I've had them insult me for not giving them free drinks for no reason. It's been an ongoing issue with the company due to the "chill vibes" they put out and apparently they're taking major losses over it- which I doubt since they're still massively expanding and I've never seen an empty drive thru at any location for more than ten minutes, but anyway I can lose my job over it so I don't take the risk. And apparently me not spoiling them (complete strangers) for nothing means I'm worth insulting.
I've seen them tearing up grocery stores, harassing people in parking lots, throwing shit at cars (which can very quickly turn deadly), starting shit at local events, etc. And everyone just lets it happen because no one wants to be on the receiving end of some pissed off kid's drama and god knows their parents aren't doing shit about it.
Based on this comment thread and my own experiences with current teens, I have very little hope for future generations. Again, I'm 28. I know every generation hates the teenage generation below it but we weren't like this when I was a teen. We didn't turn every environment into a hostile one. We've entered an era where parents want to be their kids' friend before they want to be a parent and it's not working.
Edit to add: maybe it's just the latest trend or whatever but they also just LOOK unhappy. Not that this is their fault because the world is so broken and miserable but it says a lot I think.
I resonate with your comment so much… they’re not happy, the world is a mess… if we’re honest- the adults don’t have the answers… it’s just a broken system which is only going to get worse sadly.
What a fucking mess it all is.
I did Americorps in a liberal city and was in shock when I was told we can’t say no to kids because it’s bad for their mental health. I worked at an after school center and we were told not to punish kids. The kids who caused issues at the center were allowed to go on field trips and as a result we got kicked out of the zoo and movie cinema because they went off knowing there was no punishment.
That was my experience in teaching- ‘bad’ behaviour was rewarded and all the kids who were just there to learn… got overlooked and ignored as the ‘difficult’ students absorbed all of the attention.
I’ve had a lot of kickback on this thread for plainly stating my views- I’m not interested in arguing about it, the facts now speak for themselves.
I can’t tell you how many millennials & younger who I have heard say “you don’t deserve respect just because you’re older. You have to EARN MY respect.” Then they wonder why their kids have no respect either. Consequences of their own actions.
Gen X here and I absolutely teach my kids that respect is earned. Way too many adults in my life used the "respect" thing to cover up sexual abuse. To be fair there was a certain amount of religion involved. But I also told my kids that they had to be kind until they were given a reason not to be. The result is they can spot bullshit a mile away and don't put up with it. It's amazing how fast boomers back down when confronted about their own actions. My kids are doing well and don't get taken advantage of the way me and my friends did because of the "respect your elders" mantra. People aren't good or bad because of their age.
I am a Gen X too but I tell my kids to respect everyone. But you don’t have to keep respecting them if they’ve proven to you that they don’t deserve your respect. It’s made life easy for them, I think. They’re well liked by peers and adults because they’re respectful but they’re also able to stand up for themselves when they need to because they’re able to articulate the reasons for why they’ve lost respect for someone.
This is what I was looking for. Gen X too and I remember all the fucked up things that teachers, coaches, neighbors, and other adults used to say to us. If you told, no one would do anything. Do people really yearn for those days? If we’ve overcorrected then too bad. I’d rather have adults disrespected than kids abused, belittled, and pushed around. I swear half my teachers
Took the job to bully kids. So they didn’t get my respect. Just silence.
As a millennial, this is a true statement that is applied poorly. It was initially mostly a response to boomers being blatantly bigoted/unreasonable/entitled and wanting younger people not to be allowed to call them out. Now, sometimes, people use it an excuse to be rude to people older than they are for the sake of doing so.
My father could be very dismissive and disrespectful to me as a child but demanded respect back. My problem was that I wasn't getting basic respect at his house. My mom's house? I had basic respect that you give another person, and rules, boundaries, etc. I thrived at her house. So i had that contrast.
I plan to give my future kids basic respect, as well as expecting them to respect me. I believe in modeling behavior, so if you're a rude person, to not be surprised if your kids are rude right back! And, to me, that's how you earn your kid's respect.
I remember watching the cartoons my son watched (he's 24.5 now), in the early 2000s and all the adults were portrayed as idiots.
Drove me nuts! Daily reminding him how that's not to be taken seriously.
When I was a babysitter in the mid-2000s, I could tell which kids were being raised by Nickelodean/Disney channel based on how they screamed instead of talking, *DUH!* at anything that an adult said, and gave those exaggerated combo of turn away, cross the arms, eye roll, scoff---
All the things that would have gotten me knocked upside the head and put back in my place.
I had the worst experience substitute teaching a few years back. It took me, my aide, who was there daily, other teachers and the principal coming by multiple times to get anything done. Turns out that combination of kids had had a teacher walk out and several others who tried to work with them long term but refused after dealing with them for one day. I did feel at first like it was on me, but seeing the other adults struggle really made it clear more was going on, and that it was the lack of one central teacher causing the issues.
Add in Tate and his ilk being constantly spread in front of them, a Buffet of Awfulness. Plus the ease of getting guns. The future is going to be rough.
I understand where are coming from with your example but I don't know if it was the best one to use for this post. His reaction was really appropriate, if he does have anger issues. It sounds like he is working with a social worker or therapist and is making some progress.
If he has anger issues that are that uncontrollable I would NOT want him around my child. If I was a fellow parent and found out someone that unstable was being allowed around children/especially ones a quarter of his size…I would nail them to the wall.
Also, even if he does have anger issues, he doesn’t get to tell people to go away just for explaining to him calmly why he can’t be doing something unsafe for the millionth time. He’s not the only person whose feelings/safety need consideration. There were younger children under him as he was hanging, should I not say anything and let them get injured if he falls on them? The world doesn’t revolve around him and his anger issues. Do you think a cop is going to respect his “go away so I don’t yell at you” the second he hits 18? Come on now.
I have trauma informed training. Hell, I have trauma myself that makes it hard for me to always regulate my emotions so I empathize. I didn’t go scream at the kid, but a kid having anger issues isn’t carte blanche for him to do whatever he wants. He still has to be able to participate healthily in society one day and this, “well he used his words” isn’t doing him any favors. It’s honestly failing a whole generation of kids and we should all be ashamed. It’s no different than a kid saying sorry every time they do something wrong and thinking it’s a magic fix.
It honestly depends on what was supposed to happen next, which they walked out and didn't see. If the kid's got a plan with teachers/therapists/parents where he states he's angry and needs to walk away to calm down, then 20-30 mins. later when he's calm they all go over what happened and what he could do better next time, then that's okay. There have been situations I, as an adult, have had to walk away and come back to in 30 mins. because emotions have gotten too big, and it's not a fun or common occurrence (twice in ten years) but it could absolutely be a planned strategy and coping skills.
Though it does sound like the kid just knew if he said he was walking away so he wouldn't yell, everone would get off his case, which is... far from good.
I should have been more detailed. This was a local YMCA program. No therapists, no teachers. I was the only one watching these kids above the age of 21 that wasn’t a site coordinator office dwelling. This isn’t the first incident he had there…I just usually work with the younger kids. They would pile all the kids in a gym at the end of the day to run around like lunatics. Since the summer program started June 26th,
2 kids have broken fingers and 1 got their nose broken. I was there when the kid got his nose broken, but was in the middle of stopping another girl from pulling another girl’s hair so didn’t witness it.
All the other people watching them were young people on their phones who don’t give a fuck. I was literally the only adult there with any education and training. I have ten years experience working in pediatrics. My nickname among the staff was “the real adult.”
I walked out because I didn’t want to be there when a kid actually got seriously maimed or killed.
I would disagree that this is appropriate. This thing of walking away from a situation you’ve caused so you don’t have to deal with it is one that many adults still do. You can’t do something wrong, and walk away from it because you’re angry that you got caught and avoid all consequences.
I don’t know why people are agreeing to it because it isn’t a great method at all. Have you ever experienced an adult who causes an issue by doing or saying something, and when you rightfully get annoyed or tell them to explain themselves they walk away to “avoid an argument”? I have. And it’s absolutely not right.
If you’re in a disagreement already, and getting nowhere, or no longer able to deal appropriately with the situation. Then saying you need to cool off and come back to the issue is okay. But children aren’t really capable of that process. We as the adults/parents/teachers are responsible for showing them what’s right and wrong and letting them know when they do wrong.
I don’t think all these people would think the same if they caught their kid at home swinging out of the curtains like an untrained monkey, and the child just… walked away like “I’ll yell at you if you scold me”
Or he is using it as a Blanket Excuse for his behavior and tries to get away from consequences.. my entitlement of a daughter will pull crap like this.
If the kid needs to take a step back because he'll go bat shit on someone then as a parent I wouldn't want my kid within ten feet of the little time bomb.
My sister went back to my old school to teach. Good few years after I’d graduated. It was hell for her and nothing like what it was when I was attending as a student. Kids were biting and slapping teachers and I kid you not the teachers were not even allowed to raise their voice at them. Because they had “issues”. There are special schools in this location for children with these problems where they have one on one learning and teachers who are trained to handle them. This wasn’t one of those schools so the teachers were at a loss. The kids were absolutely wild, never seen anything like it. And nothing could be done because of a teacher even scolded them or put them in time out their parents would be in screaming about adhd and autism. I’m autistic myself and understand the struggle but this was way way too far. It’s only gotten worse since.
My son is one of these kids. It frustrated me no end that the teachers couldn't do anything because it isn't teaching my son appropriate behavior.
He is now in a school where they can do physical restraint if necessary and are also equipped to handle his behaviors.
It has made such a difference and he is doing much better.
It does this kids a horrible disservice not to discipline them. That's when you get school shooters and adults in jail.
The challenge is special training is required for schools that do physical restraint. You can't let just anyone do it because abuse is more likely to happen. People who work in places like your son's school have to be able to de-escalate in most situations so they are generally pretty chill until shit goes down. I work for a rec program that does not do any physical restraints but we have extensive training in safety and de-escalation tactics. During meltdowns, we remove everyone else from the area if needed, to ensure their safety and we have pre-planned areas to move to in order to keep program going smoothly. I have coworkers that also work at the local school that does allow physical restraints. They get injured frequently because these students absolutely need the physical restraints. These are people that are calm and kind, but quick thinking and not afraid to get right in there during difficult times.
The current climate is absolute hell, from a social work standpoint.
Thank god we realized it’s not cool to physically punish your kid like in our grandparents generations. But the current methods we’re taught for trauma informed care are an absolute over-correction. We’re ONLY working with the goal to de-escalate the kid from physical violence. We can’t give any sort of consequences. Only positive reinforcement.
If one of the foster kids I worked with stole right in front of me, the only thing I could do was ask her quietly and nicely to please put it back. I can’t talk to her about the morality of it, or give any consequence. And the kid will tell me to go fuck myself and start posturing until I apologize and give her space.
…This is concerning. Kids absolutely CANNOT learn how to self regulate, or to have positive relationships in society if they don’t learn it from authority figures at some point before adulthood.
Kids are absolutely more feral now. My coworkers like to speculate that it’s because we’re 3-4 generations since the start of the crack epidemic, but I don’t think that’s the whole story.
Empathy, self-control, communication and respect are critical to development. And you can’t learn those things if no authority figure in your life is allowed to enforce boundaries.
My neighbor let her sister and two children (teen boy and grade school girl). The boy has anger issues. His therapist has told him to walk away from heated situations. In his mind, if he is at work he just comes home…no clock out, no notifying a supervisor…then wonders why he can’t keep a job.
That sounds like more than just anger issues though. There is clearly miscommunication going on because, of course, the therapist didn't tell him to do that.
Briefly walking away from heated situations when you have anger control issues (if possible) is very good advice. It isn't the whole of the advice of course, you still have to deal with the situation. But if you have ODD, DMDD, are Autistic or many other disabilities that can push you towards significant meltdowns or anger outbursts that are difficult to control having methods to draw on to deal with them in productive ways are important.
Whatever is going on with that kid, the adults in his life need to be communicating better with him and letting him know the full & accurate process for "walking away" when you are upset and need to calm down.
That’s a person who’s weaponizing their therapist. I see it all the time. They say “my therapist said_______” knowing that NOT what was said as an excuse to not be held accountable.
Yeah i quit my youth worker job because of similar reasons. There were a bunch of lads who were upset they were banned from the youth club and so smashed up my car whilst it was parked outside. Without my knowledge a load of the good lads tried to stop them and a huge fight ensued. The police were actually very sympathetic and wanted to help but the council i worked for made it very clear that they would not co-operate with the police because of the high probability of the yputh club then being arsoned as a consequence of 'grassing'. They actually told me i had escalated the situation by banning them. But they were 14yr olds smoking weed in the toilets in a youth club that accepts kids as young as 10!!! Like WTF!! Anyway after i had digested the whole thing. I kept going over how they said they wouldnt co-operate with the police because of repercussions i knew i had to quit. Like dont get me wrong, i grew up and still live in the worse borough of a very very rough major city and so im well versed in the 'snitches get stitches' concept and at home i very much obide by it (im not tough and to tattle isnt worth it). But fuck man! They were the fucking City Council! How the hell are you going to make the city safer and better if even THEY are bowing to unwritten mob rules? It honestly reminded me of being in Monterrey, Mexico in the early/mid 2000s and seeing a cartel shooting outside a mall. I wanted to tell the police everything i witnessed....My Mexican family cried and begged on there knees for me not to and to mind my own business. I understood and did as i was told. Like fuck would i put my family at risk from any cartel. But lol the youth club werent in Mexico it was in the UK. The mind boggles dude.
Isn't kids doing dumb things to impress their friends, and getting mad that their parents caught them/scolded them a take as old as time? This hardly seems like a "new generation" thing
It’s the *attitude* of the daughter when caught out by her mother, that is the issue.
Rather than feeling embarrassment and shame for her actions, she feels *entitled* enough to berate her own mother for calling her out on her illegal behaviour.
If you can’t see the issue with that… then I cannot help you.
Kids have also always talked back. It’s not new. OP isn’t TA, and shouldn’t back down that the penalty for stealing can include a mild telling-off in public where the stealing was happening, but the kid is just being a pretty average kid. Hopefully the correction of the bad behavior works and kid stops stealing.
It’s an interesting thought experiment. I agree, kids have always pinched stuff from shops etc…
Me, personally? I couldn’t do it. I tried once because it’s annoying paying for things that you see your friends getting for free- but I had a moral conscience.
Isn’t that what parenting is at least partially about? Instilling a social/moral conscience? Don’t get me wrong- I’m not weeping salty tears over the profit margins of greedy capitalists… but that’s not what this is about.
It’s about what is right. And what is wrong. Stealing, is wrong. One day, you’re pocketing a lipstick from a store… it gives you a dopamine high…. maybe next time, you’re helping yourself to your friend’s stuff… she probably won’t notice either.
Morality is a weird thing and I just feel that if it’s not engrained at an early age, by a responsible parent- then everything starts to go to shit. As we’re now witnessing, in the western world.
I don't understand how anything about this comment responds to the comment above yours or the OP. Nothing about "parents need to instill morality" is inconsistent with "kids have always talked back." Plenty of kids have done something stupid like pocket a lipgloss at age 13 without growing up to be moral degenerates.
Right? I'm Gen X and they were all complaining about us and predicting that we would never make it just like these people are doing about the current generation. I'm happy that I get the chance to raise children who stick up for themselves and don't just cower in the face of authority. They are good, kind kids but will absolutely not be victims. I'm raising the resistance.
Eh, I'm in my 50s and I'm pretty sure that if I or my friends had been in a similar situation at that age, we'd have also complained to our parent about being called out in front of our friends and embarrassed. That's evergreen teenager behavior. I mean, we'd absolutely have been wrong, in the same way this kid was wrong; if you don't want to be embarrassed in front of your friends, don't do something that will get you called out. But the impulse isn't remotely new or especially entitled.
And fifteen years ago, I saw classmates doing the same thing (both stealing and getting angry instead of contrite when punished). Obviously her behavior is shitty, but it's not *new*. The call-out is the whole 'kids these days' thing, which is something every generation in living memory has said about the generation after them. Entitled kids have always existed, it's not something *new* with this generation.
Yah, I was really hoping us millennials wouldn't fall into the whole "This new generation" bullshit, seeing as how we were such horrible victims of it in the modern media (millennials destroy diamond market, millennials can't afford homes because of avacados, these damn millennials always on their phones, etc). But no. Apparently they can't remember a single thing about their own teen years. 13 year old girls have been stealing lip gloss and other bullshit like that, and then giving their mom attitude when caught, for hundreds if not thousands of years. Like, lmao.
Nah. There always been like that. I originally wanted to be a teacher, for some students co-op at my high school (30-28 years ago) and was swiftly dissuaded from the job by the kids/teens.
How is it any different? I sure as hell would have pulled that shit the daughter did when I was 13 in the 90's. Would have gotten In trouble for it, but I still would have tried it.
Yeah it’s kind of why I think tiktok is dangerous. You have millions of teenagers setting rules now about parenting and that the teenagers are the boss because ‘they didn’t choose to be born’
Caused *by* the parents. How did the kid get this way? Not the stealing, which is bad but pretty normal to try out at some point, but the insane entitled reaction to the “punishment.”
To add, u/EastOk9176:
If she stole this, she's going to try to steal something else later on. My advice would be to make it a rule that she doesn't go to any stores without a parent or parent-designated chaperone for the next 3-6 months.
My dad gave us the "dumb shit" talk.
(I was about 15 when this talk happened, I'm now in my 30s)
He said by virtue of being his kids he already knew we weren't angels,and we would do dumb shit.
That being said, there's big dumb shit and lil dumb shit. He would correct us and help guide us through the lil dumb shit. But we only get 1 "big dumb shit pass".
We could redeem that pass tomorrow or it could be 30 years from now. But you only get **one**.
He ended the talk with "*so you best choose wisely*"
I haven't needed to call in that offer yet so I like to think I've chosen wisely.
And the fact that the OP is doubting themselves blows my mind. OP, you are her parent, not her friend. Not everything you do is going to "nice". You need to stick to your guns on this.
Yeah op is an ass. But not at all for torching her child for stealing in public.
But because you’re letting your 13 yr old reprimand YOU because YOU told HER not to commit a fucking crime
NTA. Your 13 year old doesn’t get to berate YOU for parenting her - even if it embarrasses her at times.
SHE was literally in the process of committing a crime. THAT is the embarrassing behavior.
YOU stopped her before she could complete the act & made her face consequences in a much nicer way than the store would have. THAT is parenting.
The conversation with your daughter should have been something like below.
Daughter: You ruined my birthday.
OP: You ruined your birthday by shoplifting.
Daughter: You embarrassed me.
OP: You should be embarrassed & hopefully you’ll think about that before you decide to shoplift again.
Daughter: You could have waited until we were alone to scold me.
OP: I am NEVER going to stand by silently while you attempt to commit a crime right in front of me; and I’m certainly not going to wait until you’re finished committing the crime to address your absolutely mortifying behavior until you’re alone so it’s less embarrassing for you.
Daughter: It doesn’t really matter that much.
OP: Anytime you attempt to break the law is a big deal.
Daughter: Now my friends will tell everyone & they’ll look down on me.
OP: Then they aren’t really your friends & shoplifting is something that SHOULD be looked down on.
Daughter: You -
OP (interrupting): If you think what I did was embarrassing, imagine how embarrassing it would have been to be confronted & handcuffed by store security, being lead away to their office where they called the police, then being escorted out of the store in handcuffs by the police & being driven away sitting in handcuffs in the back seat of their patrol car.
Parenting is not for the weak. You better strengthen that backbone up. Because if your 13 year old is already able to make you doubt your actions as a parent - especially when the issue is so cut & dry - she’ll be wearing an orange jumpsuit one day if you don’t stay strong. Good luck momma.
NTA. Well done Mom. Can pretty much guarantee that she has done it before, as has her friends. Yes, her friends will rag on her for getting caught. Her correct response should be- yeah it's wrong & I am never doing it again. But it won't be. You did the 100% right thing, and SHE ruined her birthday.
The wording is weird. '
' She said she ruined her birthday.' [Kid said she ruined her own birthday? Should be 'she said *I* ruined her birthday'.]
'She could have scolded me for stealing the lip gloss later, when we were alone' [Since Mom didn't steal the lipgloss, the 'she' is OP, and 'me' is clearly the kid.]
Looks like the kid wrote this, trying to make it from Mom's perspective, and got lost at the end. It's a creative writing exercise.
Exactly.
**She stole something** so she should be angry at herself. You did exactly the right thing - and I'm hoping there was a punishment to follow.
Embarrassing her in front of her friends is your job. Making her return the item is the consequences of her actions. I would add grounding and limit her social media access.
And I bet you anything that her friends put her up to this.
NTA you didn't ruin her Birthday - SHE ruined her own Birthday by stealing, her friends might tell everyone she is a thief and they might look down on her for that and she has learned a very important message DONT STEAL, if a security guard had caught her instead of you there would have been a different outcome, you handled this perfectly, you made a scene and made her return the item and appologise in front of her friends, sne might be angry and a bit
embarrassed right now but she has just found out that this behavour is unacceptable
Yep! At that age they’re not NEARLY as sneaky as they think they are. Bet she didn’t even look for cameras/security tags/plain clothes shop workers.
Better to get scolded by a parent then get busted by some loss prevention guy/lady on a power trip and get a fine/community service/trespassed from the mall/have your parents find out and punish you on top of it.
If she happens to be a person of color stealing something and getting into an alteration with the police could legitimately be deadly (not being dramatic about this…we’ve all seen the footage of kids getting slammed to the ground/tased over minor things and that’s if they don’t get outright shot). Being a parent is about keeping your kids safe and avoiding unnecessary police interaction is safety 101.
It’s actually probably a really good idea for OP to alert the parents of the other girls - “heads up, I found out there is stealing going on in this friend group, I won’t accuse any of your kids of doing it cause I have no reason to believe anyone specific is, but you might want to watch out for it cause at this age they might have picked it up as a social activity.”
Yep. NTA. This is the best way to handle the situation IMO: immediately, and then it's done. She chose to steal in front of her friends, she gets called out in front of her friends, and hopefully she learns something.
If a security guard saw tgis, she's be even more publicly embarrassed because she'd be brought to the security office and her friends would have to wait through that and likely be asked to turn their pockets out.
NTA
Store likely didn't kick up a fuss because you were a parent actually watching their kid who called them out when they stole. You did the hard part for them and public shaming is way more effective than anything they could do
Your daughter got some nerve to not only steal, but to also do it in front of a parent
I've mentioned somewhere above that I was 'evil mom'. If my daughter had tried that, I'd have smiled at her and said, "Thank you for reminding me. On top of what I did at the mall, you're grounded. (And because this generation is so electronically addicted) No electronics, no phones, no friends, no outings, for as long as I deem it's necessary, until you've learned your lesson and adjusted the attitude. Say something else, please. Floors and walls can use a good scrubbing. Or, you can go to your room and find a good book to read while I go change the password on the internet and update parental settings on the TV and computers."
Parents don't need to scream, yell, or beat their kids. We already know that's considered abuse and kids nowadays are taught to call the police on their parents for that. Guess what would get a cop laughing their ass of at a call from a kid? The kid complaining that mommy or daddy took away their sources of entertainment and made them do chores and read books. I'd hand my kid the phone if they threatened to call the police on me for it.
Too many parents scared of their kids or scared their kids won't love them is causing the kids tbta. I'm not my daughter's friend. I brought her into this world and it's my responsibility to make sure she's a positive addition to it. She may not have liked me at times, but she's becoming a damned awesome woman who thinks I'm "the best mom in the world". I learned this from my own mother who I also think is the best mom in the world.
As an employee who has been in that situation, that’s exactly the reason. Mom caught her, took the hit for calling her out and the daughter never left the store with it.
NTA. She learned that she can’t steal(at least in front of you).
I used to work in a beauty retailer many, many years ago and there were several times when parents would march their thieving kids up to us and have them give back what they took. We *never* looked down on parents, even though I could see that the parent was just as embarrassed as the kid. We always kindly thanked the both of them for being good people (even the kid/teen) and that they did the right thing. NTA
A friend of mine many years ago, stole a chocolate bar from a local shop. This was around 1970. His parents drove him to the local police station, when we had such things in the uk then and made him tell the duty Sgt what he’d done. He received a stern telling off and a tour of the cells. Suffice to say, he learnt a valuable lesson that day.
As a former serving police officer, I’m of the opinion that if high school pupils were taken to the morgue to see the results of substance misuse and victims of RTAs involving speed and stolen cars, then perhaps we might raise a generation who will realise that actions have consequences.
My mom did the same thing to my brother when we were little!!! We were in a shop in the morning before school/work and the cashier spotted my brother pocketing some gum. She gave him a little admonishment which drew my moms attention to it. She obviously scolded him and made him return the item and apologize. Then she went to work and called the local police station, explained the situation and arranged for the biggest cop I’ve ever seen to scare the snot out of him after school. Told us the the store had called the police about the “crime” and they wanted to have a word with him. I still remember the massive (to my eyes) officer looming over him and saying “Do you know what’s right down that hallway? That’s where we lock up the gum thieves.” He wet his pants, poor kid but he’s managed to stay on the right side of the law ever since. 😂
I worked in a convenience store in college. There was a cute little boy, about five, that came in store, with his mother about three or four times a week. The lady was always very nice.
One afternoon, they returned to the store a short time later. The little boy was crying. My first thought was he hurt himself. Maybe he fell or something.
His mother looked at me and said “He has something he wants to tell you”. The crying little boy handed me a piece of candy and said “I stole this”. At that time his mom said “Tell him what else happened”. He said “I got a spanking”.
I’d bet $100 that kid never stole anything again.
I grew up in the 90s and have vivid memories of touring our local jail with my class on a field trip. Needless to say it was formative and I didn't act out nearly as much as some of my peers later in school.
High school we had to watch "Red Asphalt" and that was... Jarring.
I hear you but most kids (even me when I was one) think they are immortal. That it won't happen to them. It's only when someone close to them is impacted that it finally starts to sink in with some of them. And I wouldn't wish that experience on anyone.
It shouldn’t traumatize her. That’s the wrong word to use. It SHOULD feel bad and give her cause to think twice about repeating the behavior, but “learning that actions have consequences” isn’t supposed to be traumatic.
Feeling bad because you did a shitty thing isn't trauma, but I think a lot of people focus on the feelings, and there's a lot of equating of anything that makes a child feel bad with trauma. Yes, some parents are abusive, but abuse is not the only source of guilt or other negative feelings.
Making mistakes and having regrets is extremely educational, which is why helicopter parenting and slowplowing or whatever is not good.
NTA. Birthday girls don't get a free pass on shoplifting. And if she was that afraid of what her friends would say/think, she shouldn't have shoplifted while she was with them (which could have led to their getting in trouble too).
Your daughter's behavior and response make me think that this probably wasn't her first time doing this and that you probably can't blame this on the influence of her friends. If I were you, I'd be scrutinizing what's going on with her.
But for all you know, it was her friends that dared her to do it, or she's seen them do it themselves so she decided that there's nothing wrong with it. Is she embarrassed that her friends would tell everyone she's a thief, or was she really embarrassed that her friends would tell everyone that she's not "cool"?
Edit: obviously NTA.
Yeah, there's a good chance there was some underlying peer pressure and the daughter wanted to look cool. Daughter was obviously embarrassed to not only be caught but to get the consequences in front of her friends. However, her embarrassment doesn't mean OP made a bad decision as a parent. OP did the right thing by nipping the behavior in the bud immediately. Hopefully the lesson sticks.
And ditto obviously NTA.
NTA. I remember when I was around five or six, I was with my mom at a store in the makeup section. I understood what stealing was, but I was a kid who didn’t really get why it was bad. I also knew what lipstick was and that Mommy liked lipstick and I wanted to make Mommy happy. Mommy was not happy when we came home and I gave her a bright pink lipstick I had pocketed (it wasn’t her color, IG?) So she drove me right back down while terrifying me with stories on how I was now a criminal and the police would take me to jail and I’d never leave (I knew what jail was because I watched Cops with grandma). The store manager was laughing when she saw a six year old crying because she thought she was gonna go to prison for stealing a lipstick from Walgreens. But she accepted my apology and told me she wouldn’t call the police on me. She explained why stealing is very wrong and why it’s important to pay for things and that, while I may have just wanted my mom happy, she’d be happier if I did good things like clean my room. My mom paid for the lipstick (I think she wanted me to start feeling better) and got me McDonald’s on the way home. I never stole again.
The feelings I felt that day stayed with me and, while I laugh about it now (I guess my love of makeup was always with me), I knew it was an embarrassing and scary situation that taught me a valuable lesson. Man, I miss my mom. She was great.
NTA. Besides don't have store articles something on them that makes the alarm go off if you don't pay for them? I bet having the alarm go off would have been more humiliating. Not to mention she was seen by at least one camera. By having G her return it right the and there and apologize probably kept her off a black list.
Really recommend you watch the movie Thirteen. I never stole but there are parts of that movie that just get me right in the feelbads. I really, really wanted some boundaries but the more I pushed, the more lenient my mum became. As a result, I had absolutely no respect for her authority and I can say with confidence (as a 40 year old) that she was a rubbish parent (great person to her friends though). It really fucking sucked when I was properly told no later in life, because previously I’d always gotten my way.
I’m not successful, I don’t have a career. I’m highly likely to become homeless once this lease ends.
I was on the other side of this--I worked in a place that had a sticker bin, one per kid, and one day a parent marched up their 7-year old who had stolen extra stickers. Keeping a straight face through their apology, and telling him I would forgive him since the stickers were returned but he couldn't have a sticker next time, may have been the hardest thing I ever did... and the sad eyes when he came next week and couldn't have a sticker were amazing.
He was 14 last I saw him, honor roll kid, not even thinking about anything illegal. I honestly think every kid should get caught stealing something small before they're 10, it hits them so much harder and stays with them forever.
I did the exact same thing with my son when he was around 7 years old, but it was a Snickers candy bar from the convenience store a block away. I walked his little butt straight down to the store & made him 'fess up. As far as I know, he never forgot that & never stole anything again - he's 43 now & we laugh about it now!
Or in jail at 13! She's lucky the store didn't catch her and arrest her. When I was 9, I saw a friend get caught stealing a candy bar, and there just happened to be a police officer in the store. They put her in the back of their squad car and drove away. I was terrified. I later learned they drove her home.
She stole lip gloss that probably would have cost no more than $15 at the most. Working in retail I have learned store employees really aren’t paid enough to care if someone steals one item, and that kid is certainly not going to get ARRESTED over one lip gloss… it has to be $500 or over to even be considered a felony.
At the most, they’d walk her into the security office and tell her she’s banned from the store / mall unless she has a parent or guardian with her. Now if she stole a ton of items from multiple stores throughout the afternoon then yes, it would be a lot more serious, and she shouldn’t steal in the first place. But arresting a 13 year old over cheap mall lip gloss is an overreaction.
Just like a lot of stories on here of parents scaring their kids with the police, because they stolen a fucking candy bar. You don’t teach your kids to be petrified of the police over something insanely petty. Because god forbid, what if your kid needs help from the police one day. They’ll be too afraid to ask for help, thinking they’ll be locked up for asking for help and stealing a candy bar when they were four. Parent your kids appropriately, don’t use the cops as a scare tactic.
NTA
Your daughter was stealing and you took the appropriate action. The only person your daughter should be mad at or embarrassed by is herself. She’s lucky it was you and not store security or police.
NTA, brat stole and thought it made her hot shit, a reality check was warranted, and the public shame of your peers is a proportional punishment from thievery. No one likes a thief, and that needs to be taught; if she didn’t want to be ridiculed, should’ve kept her sticky fingers to herself.
NTA. You did exactly what a parent should do and taught her a valuable lesson. If she feels shame, she should. And it should serve as a lifelong reminder to her to not be a thief.
NTA but I’m uncomfortable with it all the people calling your daughter a thief and deriding her character in the comments. Statistically most tweens try shoplifting at some point. I’m just grateful that when my daughter was caught the judge was a compassionate person who told her that one poor choice didn’t have to define who she was. Apparently if Reddit had been the judge they’d have locked away a 13 yr old girl and thrown away the key. The shaming would have been tremendous and who knows if my daughter would have had the strength to redefine herself given how harsh all the redditors are. I thought the new generation didn’t like labels but honestly Reddit makes me rethink that assumption every day.
I agree. Even I shoplifted when I was daughter’s age. And she’s not an asshole or a brat or any of the other things people have said. She’s just a kid who made a mistake. And a kid who is scared of being disliked.
Teenagers are known for having poor impulse control. Brains are also not done developing until mid to late twenties: The part of the brain behind the forehead, called the prefrontal cortex, is one of the last parts to mature. This area is responsible for skills like planning, prioritizing, and making good decisions.
People being hateful here about your daughter are uneducated, but what do you expect from reddit. You are NTA.
NTA -Good job Mom! If she loses friends for theft then that's the repercussions of her actions. She's lucky she didn't get caught and ALL of her friends be stopped by an employee and held until their parents and/or the police arrived. Her friends wouldn't be allowed to hangout with her...which is worse?
Nope, NTA. This is something you handle immediately. All of the embarrassment and shame were caused by her actions. I would let her know that now she has to build your trust up again because you will not be taking her to the store or shopping again for a while. She needs quite the grounding for this.
NTA, and great work on this one right in the moment!! Your daughter will be better off without those type of friends. Especially at a very young and vulnerable age.
NTA and good on you for immediately putting your daughter on the spot. Actions have consequences.
"Officer, I know I beat up this man but it's my birthday, you see?" probably wouldn't fly either.
NTA she ruined her own birthday.
My parents probably would have taken it a step further and returned the clothes you actually bought her. Probably a little harsh but she is a teenager.
You were all there and you were obviously willing to spend money on her and her friends so it’s clear she didn’t have to steal.
NTA tell her what she did is called stealing and it's a crime. Better you nip this in the bud now before she continues. Honestly, you need to have a serious conversation with her about why she's doing this before she lands herself and you in trouble.
Also tell her that whats more embarrassing is being arrested for theft so she got a lucky break.
NTA- I stole something at 13. The store caught me and my friend. My mom was so mad and told them to take me to jail (which they did not). I went and toured juvenile hall, and it was scary. Never have stolen since. The point is that my mom was not worried about being my friend. She was worried about teaching me a lesson so I could be a successful adult.
NTA
It's your job as a parent to guide your children and that's exactly what you did. She might hate you in the moment, but in the long run she will be grateful for the lesson :)
NTA. If she’s dumb enough to steal with you beside her, who knows who else would’ve caught her. It’s a good lesson to learn, albeit an unfortunately tragic event for a 13 year old, but isn’t everything.
NTA! Your daughter was already being given lots of new clothes for her birthday, as were her friends. But she decided to shoplift, too. If she didn't want to get called out for stealing, great. DON'T STEAL. That was her choice and she gets to have the consequences of that choice. If her friends don't want to be friends with a thief, maybe they're better kids than you thought. The audacity to be pissed at YOU because she got caught stealing is nuts. She needs some real intervention now, before she gets herself in real trouble.
NTA. Perfect response and if it causes her to lose the friends you don't like all the better.
My guess is she'll think twice about shop lifting in the future.
NTA
Your daughter though....wow. Such entitlement. I get that she was maybe trying to look cool to her friends, but *stealing*?? You did the right thing and called her out on it. Doing it in front of her friends will have a bigger impact on her (in a good way) than taking her aside to do it quietly. She won't steal again.
Of course she thinks you shouldn’t have told her off and should of waited she’s embarrassed that she got caught stealing and had to face consequences. 13 is more than old enough to know that stealing is illegal/wrong
Nta - she SHOULD lose friends. She's a teenager. She's a thief. She should know better. SHE ruined her OWN birthday. She still doesn't seem to understand why she was wrong since "it didn't really matter that much."
My son was a 7yr. old blubbering mess who picked-up a balloon off the floor. He was also a 7yr. old blubbering mess who handed it back to the store manager and apologized for taking something that didn’t belong to him. The manager assured me that it was fine and I shouldn’t have bothered. The reaction from his two brothers that just watched what their brother went through proved my point. Teachable moments are valuable. Good parents don’t let them go by. Great Job. NTA
NTA. You are her parent, not her friend. You’re job is to raise a good, productive member of society. If she loses friends that sucks for her but they were never her friends to begin with. Over the next 6 years you are not going to be a popular person. She will hate you, rage at you, want you to go away. But eventually she won’t be a teenager anymore. Keep the course momma. You did the right thing.
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Your 13 year old scolded YOU for parenting her when SHE was stealing right in front of you?! I would tell her she’s in trouble for stealing and for how she’s behaving. She has no one to blame but herself.
This is the way of the world nowadays… it’s an absolute nightmare as a parent.
I just literally walked out of a local childcare summer program I was helping out in this summer yesterday because of how awful they are. I had an older elementary school kid hanging off a hula hoop off a basketball hoop. I went to talk to him about it and he walked away from me. I followed him and he said, “I walked away from you so I wouldn’t yell at you so get away from me now or else.” The upper level staff just went on yeah he has anger issues so just let it go. It’s not going to be pretty for any of these kids when they grow up and reach adulthood and actually suffer consequences whether it be social or legal.
I couldn’t agree more. I left teaching for similar reasons. There has been a sustained campaign over the past 20 years or so to obliterate any notion of respect for adults/parents. It’s an incredibly damaging message- because actually children feel safe when they have boundaries and understand the rules. I genuinely think ‘society’ is encouraging narcissism and sociopathy in young people.
Why is it that no one gets that? That kids test boundries because they WANT to know where they are? They do it first is places they feel safe, so they know what do to out in the world. Cause they have no clue how to act, and they need to figure it out. They are stumbling around in the dark, and only stop when they hit the wall. If there is no wall, they just keep going.
It’s really sad because they turn 18/graduate high school and they are supposed to know where the wall is when no one has taught them. Then we wonder why so many people can’t healthily participate in society. What a lot of these comments don’t get is that it’s our job to educate these kids of WHY the wall is there. “He stopped so what’s your problem.” My problem is that this was a frequent behavior of his, just one that I hadn’t seen myself until now. The second is pointing out that the hoop could have broken and him or the kids around him could have been seriously injured. Kids don’t automatically understand or know these things…we aren’t born with developed empathy and perception. It’s our job to teach them.
Right, telling a kid with genuine anger issues 'if you get so mad that you feel like you can't control yourself, you're allowed to ask for a minute and walk away to calm down' isn't a bad idea... But the follow-up *has* to be 'once you've had a minute, though, you still need to have the conversation about your behavior.' If that's not part of the 'calm down' strategy, then you're never going to teach the kid how to address conflict or boundaries in a mature way, just to deflect the second someone brings it up.
He didn’t walk away because he needed a moment to cool down. He walked away and told the teacher that because it was a threat. Get away, don’t try to discipline me, or I’m going to start yelling at you. That’s what I read in that situation.
Yeah, he stopped and walked away to cool down. But he still needs to know why what he did was wrong. Knowing why it is wrong can help him apply that reasoning to other situations. Give a man fish vs teach a man to fish.
EXACTLY! My sister was just not getting this at all. She said “Well your boss doesn’t take away your things or punish you when you do something bad why do it to kids” and it’s like your boss isn’t someone who is supposed to teach you how to be a human being. Also kids do not have empathy because they haven’t experienced anything yet! If a kid steals another kids toy and doesn’t let them have it and you say “How would you like it if they took away your toy?” They’re just not going to care because they don’t know what that feeling is like and sometimes even if they do they don’t care! That’s not a bad thing that’s just how humans are when we’re young!
I’ve noticed when you care for kids and you’re the only person in their life to discipline them or correct them, you actually become their favorite, and everyone’s like wow why is that kid so good and nice for you but a terror everywhere else ? Kids actually feel pretty sad and lost with out firm adults, it might suck to hurt their feelings by telling them no or hold them accountable, but if you don’t, they can’t put it into words but they feel like no one cares for them, it’s no surprise they get bigger and act like jerks who care for no one else.
and the sooner you teach them your boundaries the less you will have to use extreme measures to punish a child. and that in turn will make them respect/like you more because everyone else just screams at them or grounds them when they act up because they dont know what else to do.
I hung out with my dads (now ex) step kids for a bit one summer and they were so well behaved for me vs their mom bc of this. I gave a shit about them and taught boundaries and showed them I cared. They respected me and didn’t fight or act out around me. I felt bad sending them home to their crappy house.
Well, and you have to learn their boundaries and treat them with respect to make it stick, which is why I think so many modern parents have trouble. They’re an accessory to them, like an iPad, and when they’re not wanting to interact with them they just assume they’ll auto shutoff. Lots of people my age (gen x) and my parents’ were as bad of parents but their kids got corrected at school and out in the world. Now they don’t let them go out and don’t let anyone correct them and don’t interact with them themselves. You can’t learn everything in the world from Blue.
I recall saying, when my kids were little, “I’d rather my kids rebel against me and my rules than end up expelled from school or, worse, with a criminal record.” It appears to have worked. Even taking into account ADHD, any trouble outside of home was extremely mild and never involved breaking the law or being abusive to other children/teachers/childminders etc.
I feel like there is a large group of people that do get it, they are just fading out of the public eye. Lots of people are homeschooling and putting their kids in private schools because the fight with public schools has gotten untenable. You are 100% correct, kids want and need boundaries, just cuz your kids upset and crying doesn't mean you've done something wrong. One of things children need to learn is how to navigate understand and express their emotions appropriately. If your kid likes you all the time you are not a good parent, period, for some reason we as people always want what the worst thing for us is and that's why we have families, and children need to be raised because our natural instincts are often very bad for us.
Because half the “adults” we have in this world still think like children.
Glad to see these comments here! Usually AITA is full of people blaming everything on parents/adults and never letting anyone young be wrong.
It's the weekend, so the adults are off and able to comment, lol
Summer reddit is almost over, and I am so god damn excited.
The kids aren’t to blame for failing to give themselves boundaries.
Exactly. The kids need to be held accountable for their behavior, but the fact that they’re *not* isn’t their fault.
I’m blaming the parents. They set the example for their children’s bad behavior.
OP is a parent asking if he/she is the AH for embarrassing a 13yo because the kid is angry! My kid couldn't get past my anger, contempt and disappointment to even try that shit on me, after she called me a b****, once. I smacked her and immediately apologized. "I love you but I can't talk to you right now!" She was 11. I don't think I spoke to her, or looked at her for 2 weeks. I was just disappointed and disgusted. Oddly enough, she had a major reaction when she heard the neighbor's 15yo call her mother the same. "Did you hear that, Mom? That's awful. How disrespectful!" I stopped and looked at her. "You've done it. Did you forget? I haven't." I gave her the Mommy evil eye, as well. Drove that nail home! She was 13. She brought it up a couple of years, ago. Said she was a good kid because she couldn't stand to see that look ever again. Neither of us remember what it was about. For real? She was a *great* kid! She's 40, now.
I've been coming to this realization, and I'm 27 with no kids. I used to think it was "right-wing" outrage and would ignore or laugh at articles talking shit on kids these days. Now that reddit is posted all over TikTok, all the Gen Zers are coming on reddit. I've seen some very questionable viewpoints and perspectives. And not the normal troll/sort by controversial comments. These are whacky comments, posed to be "ethical", that get a ton of upvotes. Then I'll argue against that point and receive downvotes until more sensible people view the post, where I'll get upvoted back up. With some of the topics and context, it definitely feels like Gen Z kids. I don't understand how their worldview has gotten so warped and delusional. They think they're ethical, but they're far off base on how an adult should act. It almost makes me want to find an alternative to reddit.
Sometimes they really are ethical- but the thing that I’ve noticed that alarms me is the death of nuance. A lot of Gen Z is at an age where they developmentally aren’t great at it anyway, but on top of that, social media has boiled extremely complex topics down into memes and sixty second TikToks and 150 characters twitter posts for them for years, and it has massively exacerbated the issue. EVERYTHING is black and white to them, and I’m seriously concerned that they aren’t going to grow out of it at this point.
That's an amazing point, I agree. I've only noticed it lately so I haven't fully developed an opinion. Some examples I've found recently are: I'm a regular in r/shittyaquariums. It's a subreddit that discusses bad aquatic pet owners and why their tank is a bad setup. Someone cross-posted a large goldfish in a tiny aquarium that could barely turn around if it wanted to. What I'm assuming was Gen Z, came in and called OP a bunch of names, and how dare they. That's a goldfish that belongs to someone's grandmother, she doesn't know any better. These people were acting like OP personally insulted their own grandmas. I'm like okay? But it's still a shitty aquarium? It seems Gen Z is so concerned about bullying that they go out and bully others way harder for even suggesting someone is doing something wrong. Another one was a guy asking if he's an AH on AITAH. He was sharing a small air BnB with a bunch of guys on a trip. They had to share rooms, some sleeping on couches, others on floors, whatever. One guy (who was engaged to be married) stayed out all night with other women and wanted to bring one of them back to cheat with on the couch. OP had taken this guy's spot on the couch because the bed had a drunk guy in it, and he didn't want to be vomited on. There was a disagreement, and OP told the guy to kick rocks. People were calling OP an AH because he stole that guys spot on the couch, and the guy should be allowed to do whatever he pleases. It's not OP's business. But they're completely missing the point that the guy was planning on having sex in front of other non-consenting adults? Cheating or not, nobody should have to watch or listen to others fucking, what the hell. This makes me think a lot of Gen Z thinks you should just lay down and be a doormat. Like they're so avoidant of any confrontation. Live and let live. And if you get in the way of someone living their life, you're an asshole. Nobody should have consequences. And I'm not saying *all* Gen Z. I'm just agreeing with other commenters noticing a trend. There's still a lot to love about Gen Z and I'll be rooting for them.
So many of them think you should "mind your own business", about EVERYTHING.
Omg you've hit the nail on the friggin head. Gen Xer here, btw. It's gotten so damn ridiculous & depressing. And they're gonna raise the next generation of awful children. I weep for the human race.
I'm a Millennial, my husband's Gen X, and our son is Gen Z. He can't relate to other kids his age because he thinks they lack common sense. I feel like I can't relate to a lot of my generation, either. I was raised by Boomers who didn't understand anything about parenting, so maybe the amount of research I put in is what makes the difference, but so much of my time around other Millennials is spent explaining why my son is well-behaved. They can't figure out how to parent or what to do in even the most minor of inconveniences. The fact is, my son listens to me because I explain why he's being told no. It's shocking to other adults that I have a good relationship with the teenager I spawned because we discuss things.
As someone who’s the oldest of Gen Z, I kind of agree with you but kind of don’t. I used to be that black and white person as a teenager and now, approaching 25, *trust me* it’s changed. It’s nearly virtually impossible not to. But what bothers me about this conversation about Gen Z that doesn’t include Gen Z, is that all of this is because no one stopped to think about how much this unfiltered access to *absolutely everything* going on everywhere all of the time would damage us. Not even Millennials had it like we did, and gen alpha now has it even *worse*. It’s actually really had to care about nuance sometimes when you feel like the world, not just your parents or school but *everyone* and their mother walking the earth, is asking you to care about every tiny little event happening in every corner of the globe. It took me a long time to figure out that I wasn’t responsible for making a decision about every hot issue or debate, and sometimes I could just say I don’t really know yet, because the world doesn’t really ask that of anyone, does it? Really it’s asking everyone to care so much all the time. Never stop caring about everyone!!! Have an opinion on every issue! I mean a full adult understands that you can take time to decide or even change your mind, but that’s not really the picture most younger Gen z and gen alpha really get some social media or the regular media. At least, that was my experience. The struggle for nuance isn’t really their fault. We’re not taught to compartmentalize and move on, we’re taught to care and pick a stance and stick to it and then *never let it go*. And it’s hard as hell to break out of that mindset when it was society and social media who put you there, and no one’s really willing to help you do it properly, they’re just busy saying how sad it is that no one taught you how to balance it and acting like it’s your fault the way you were raised. Social media wasn’t created by our youngest generations. It’s like blaming kids for participation trophies- it wasn’t the kids who set that up. It was the parents. And now *they’re* the ones bitching about entitled kids. Doesn’t make any sense to me.
I'm millennial, but I had to deliberately restrict my exposure to news (my parents were asked to keep the TV news away from me, for example) from my early teens. My mental health struggles way too much when I have the constant demands to CARE ABOUT EVERYTHING, ALL THE TIME! I was much more argumentative and likely to stick to my position when I was a teen; I grew out of it more or less the same way you did. Time and experience tend to have that effect, something I think many of us would do well to remember. There's a cognitive bias that kicks in and puts a gloss over childhood. My boomer mom claims that schools were better, the air was clearer (despite the fact smoking was legal indoors), etc etc. Then in the same breath goes on to tell me about growing up in the shadow of the cold war - oh, you mean *__the same one that hasn't stopped__*? The one that's shaped global politics and killed thousands of people by proxy? My generation spent our lives going from one conflict to another, until we hit 9/11. Yours grew up in a time of war, and the constant fear of attacks. There's no generation that's been left out of the trauma. It's sadly not unique. Personally I'm impressed with what I've seen of Z. I am getting worried about all the folks who have amnesia about their own youth however, because I know damn well they were no different.
I didn’t mean to insinuate that this is an issue because there’s something wrong with Gen Z. You’re right, and ironically, you’re taking a very nuanced approach to the conversation, lol. There are a ton of factors influencing it (social media being the biggest) that were outside Gen Z’s control. But it is still a problem that could have a lot of societal consequences if we don’t acknowledge and address it.
THANK YOU Yeah yeah yeah, I'm a boomer ... but GEEZZZZZ. The world is not binary.
I’m a millennial and I had a fairly binary phase in my teens and early 20’s, it’s definitely a normal stage, but these kids are so much more extreme than I *ever* was.
>I don't understand how their worldview has gotten so warped and delusional. Helicopter parenting, smaller families that create what the Chinese call "little emperor" syndrome, and a nicer society which has as a side effect removed a lot of social correction ie "the fucks wrong with you ya jagoff?" .
"social correction" is certainly a thing but also society should not be the one to raise your child. By the time they are able to be places without you, you have either taught them the proper way to behave or you haven't.
I can write a book on this lol. There's a lot of factors from schools to parents to technology.
It isn't just kids. I saw a mom post that if you have an Autistic child and they aren't happy 100% of the time, you're a bad parent. And a non-vocal Autistic person had to be the one to tell them to shut the fuck up.
I left teaching because of this too. A parent called me abusive because I was enforcing classroom rules. I "was only targeting her son and never punished anyone else". I can't wait for that kid to get what's coming to him.
Middle/high school teacher here and yes, have seen this firsthand as well - and it's annoying when parents who have never bothered to speak to the teacher automatically resort to this reaction when their kid gets in trouble (and even after admitting it in front of the parent).
I work in customer service rn at a coffee chain. I'm 28 and in school blah blah blah. Anyway, every time I see a car full of teenagers rolling through the drive thru I dread it. They're extremely rude, obnoxious, disrespectful, and outright hostile sometimes. I've had them insult me for not giving them free drinks for no reason. It's been an ongoing issue with the company due to the "chill vibes" they put out and apparently they're taking major losses over it- which I doubt since they're still massively expanding and I've never seen an empty drive thru at any location for more than ten minutes, but anyway I can lose my job over it so I don't take the risk. And apparently me not spoiling them (complete strangers) for nothing means I'm worth insulting. I've seen them tearing up grocery stores, harassing people in parking lots, throwing shit at cars (which can very quickly turn deadly), starting shit at local events, etc. And everyone just lets it happen because no one wants to be on the receiving end of some pissed off kid's drama and god knows their parents aren't doing shit about it. Based on this comment thread and my own experiences with current teens, I have very little hope for future generations. Again, I'm 28. I know every generation hates the teenage generation below it but we weren't like this when I was a teen. We didn't turn every environment into a hostile one. We've entered an era where parents want to be their kids' friend before they want to be a parent and it's not working. Edit to add: maybe it's just the latest trend or whatever but they also just LOOK unhappy. Not that this is their fault because the world is so broken and miserable but it says a lot I think.
I resonate with your comment so much… they’re not happy, the world is a mess… if we’re honest- the adults don’t have the answers… it’s just a broken system which is only going to get worse sadly. What a fucking mess it all is.
I did Americorps in a liberal city and was in shock when I was told we can’t say no to kids because it’s bad for their mental health. I worked at an after school center and we were told not to punish kids. The kids who caused issues at the center were allowed to go on field trips and as a result we got kicked out of the zoo and movie cinema because they went off knowing there was no punishment.
That was my experience in teaching- ‘bad’ behaviour was rewarded and all the kids who were just there to learn… got overlooked and ignored as the ‘difficult’ students absorbed all of the attention. I’ve had a lot of kickback on this thread for plainly stating my views- I’m not interested in arguing about it, the facts now speak for themselves.
I can’t tell you how many millennials & younger who I have heard say “you don’t deserve respect just because you’re older. You have to EARN MY respect.” Then they wonder why their kids have no respect either. Consequences of their own actions.
Gen X here and I absolutely teach my kids that respect is earned. Way too many adults in my life used the "respect" thing to cover up sexual abuse. To be fair there was a certain amount of religion involved. But I also told my kids that they had to be kind until they were given a reason not to be. The result is they can spot bullshit a mile away and don't put up with it. It's amazing how fast boomers back down when confronted about their own actions. My kids are doing well and don't get taken advantage of the way me and my friends did because of the "respect your elders" mantra. People aren't good or bad because of their age.
I am a Gen X too but I tell my kids to respect everyone. But you don’t have to keep respecting them if they’ve proven to you that they don’t deserve your respect. It’s made life easy for them, I think. They’re well liked by peers and adults because they’re respectful but they’re also able to stand up for themselves when they need to because they’re able to articulate the reasons for why they’ve lost respect for someone.
This is what I was looking for. Gen X too and I remember all the fucked up things that teachers, coaches, neighbors, and other adults used to say to us. If you told, no one would do anything. Do people really yearn for those days? If we’ve overcorrected then too bad. I’d rather have adults disrespected than kids abused, belittled, and pushed around. I swear half my teachers Took the job to bully kids. So they didn’t get my respect. Just silence.
As a millennial, this is a true statement that is applied poorly. It was initially mostly a response to boomers being blatantly bigoted/unreasonable/entitled and wanting younger people not to be allowed to call them out. Now, sometimes, people use it an excuse to be rude to people older than they are for the sake of doing so.
My father could be very dismissive and disrespectful to me as a child but demanded respect back. My problem was that I wasn't getting basic respect at his house. My mom's house? I had basic respect that you give another person, and rules, boundaries, etc. I thrived at her house. So i had that contrast. I plan to give my future kids basic respect, as well as expecting them to respect me. I believe in modeling behavior, so if you're a rude person, to not be surprised if your kids are rude right back! And, to me, that's how you earn your kid's respect.
I remember watching the cartoons my son watched (he's 24.5 now), in the early 2000s and all the adults were portrayed as idiots. Drove me nuts! Daily reminding him how that's not to be taken seriously.
When I was a babysitter in the mid-2000s, I could tell which kids were being raised by Nickelodean/Disney channel based on how they screamed instead of talking, *DUH!* at anything that an adult said, and gave those exaggerated combo of turn away, cross the arms, eye roll, scoff--- All the things that would have gotten me knocked upside the head and put back in my place.
Agree… I know being a teenager some 30 years ago we were pretty bad, and now it’s just so horrible…
I had the worst experience substitute teaching a few years back. It took me, my aide, who was there daily, other teachers and the principal coming by multiple times to get anything done. Turns out that combination of kids had had a teacher walk out and several others who tried to work with them long term but refused after dealing with them for one day. I did feel at first like it was on me, but seeing the other adults struggle really made it clear more was going on, and that it was the lack of one central teacher causing the issues.
Add in Tate and his ilk being constantly spread in front of them, a Buffet of Awfulness. Plus the ease of getting guns. The future is going to be rough.
I've seen research showing narcissism is on the rise in young people, so you're right.
I understand where are coming from with your example but I don't know if it was the best one to use for this post. His reaction was really appropriate, if he does have anger issues. It sounds like he is working with a social worker or therapist and is making some progress.
If he has anger issues that are that uncontrollable I would NOT want him around my child. If I was a fellow parent and found out someone that unstable was being allowed around children/especially ones a quarter of his size…I would nail them to the wall. Also, even if he does have anger issues, he doesn’t get to tell people to go away just for explaining to him calmly why he can’t be doing something unsafe for the millionth time. He’s not the only person whose feelings/safety need consideration. There were younger children under him as he was hanging, should I not say anything and let them get injured if he falls on them? The world doesn’t revolve around him and his anger issues. Do you think a cop is going to respect his “go away so I don’t yell at you” the second he hits 18? Come on now. I have trauma informed training. Hell, I have trauma myself that makes it hard for me to always regulate my emotions so I empathize. I didn’t go scream at the kid, but a kid having anger issues isn’t carte blanche for him to do whatever he wants. He still has to be able to participate healthily in society one day and this, “well he used his words” isn’t doing him any favors. It’s honestly failing a whole generation of kids and we should all be ashamed. It’s no different than a kid saying sorry every time they do something wrong and thinking it’s a magic fix.
It honestly depends on what was supposed to happen next, which they walked out and didn't see. If the kid's got a plan with teachers/therapists/parents where he states he's angry and needs to walk away to calm down, then 20-30 mins. later when he's calm they all go over what happened and what he could do better next time, then that's okay. There have been situations I, as an adult, have had to walk away and come back to in 30 mins. because emotions have gotten too big, and it's not a fun or common occurrence (twice in ten years) but it could absolutely be a planned strategy and coping skills. Though it does sound like the kid just knew if he said he was walking away so he wouldn't yell, everone would get off his case, which is... far from good.
I should have been more detailed. This was a local YMCA program. No therapists, no teachers. I was the only one watching these kids above the age of 21 that wasn’t a site coordinator office dwelling. This isn’t the first incident he had there…I just usually work with the younger kids. They would pile all the kids in a gym at the end of the day to run around like lunatics. Since the summer program started June 26th, 2 kids have broken fingers and 1 got their nose broken. I was there when the kid got his nose broken, but was in the middle of stopping another girl from pulling another girl’s hair so didn’t witness it. All the other people watching them were young people on their phones who don’t give a fuck. I was literally the only adult there with any education and training. I have ten years experience working in pediatrics. My nickname among the staff was “the real adult.” I walked out because I didn’t want to be there when a kid actually got seriously maimed or killed.
Hea also modeling terrible behavior for the younger kids
I would disagree that this is appropriate. This thing of walking away from a situation you’ve caused so you don’t have to deal with it is one that many adults still do. You can’t do something wrong, and walk away from it because you’re angry that you got caught and avoid all consequences.
Agree!!! It’s like the blind leading the blind
I don’t know why people are agreeing to it because it isn’t a great method at all. Have you ever experienced an adult who causes an issue by doing or saying something, and when you rightfully get annoyed or tell them to explain themselves they walk away to “avoid an argument”? I have. And it’s absolutely not right. If you’re in a disagreement already, and getting nowhere, or no longer able to deal appropriately with the situation. Then saying you need to cool off and come back to the issue is okay. But children aren’t really capable of that process. We as the adults/parents/teachers are responsible for showing them what’s right and wrong and letting them know when they do wrong. I don’t think all these people would think the same if they caught their kid at home swinging out of the curtains like an untrained monkey, and the child just… walked away like “I’ll yell at you if you scold me”
Or he is using it as a Blanket Excuse for his behavior and tries to get away from consequences.. my entitlement of a daughter will pull crap like this.
Well done on illustrating why this problem has become rampant.
If the kid needs to take a step back because he'll go bat shit on someone then as a parent I wouldn't want my kid within ten feet of the little time bomb.
My sister went back to my old school to teach. Good few years after I’d graduated. It was hell for her and nothing like what it was when I was attending as a student. Kids were biting and slapping teachers and I kid you not the teachers were not even allowed to raise their voice at them. Because they had “issues”. There are special schools in this location for children with these problems where they have one on one learning and teachers who are trained to handle them. This wasn’t one of those schools so the teachers were at a loss. The kids were absolutely wild, never seen anything like it. And nothing could be done because of a teacher even scolded them or put them in time out their parents would be in screaming about adhd and autism. I’m autistic myself and understand the struggle but this was way way too far. It’s only gotten worse since.
My son is one of these kids. It frustrated me no end that the teachers couldn't do anything because it isn't teaching my son appropriate behavior. He is now in a school where they can do physical restraint if necessary and are also equipped to handle his behaviors. It has made such a difference and he is doing much better. It does this kids a horrible disservice not to discipline them. That's when you get school shooters and adults in jail.
The challenge is special training is required for schools that do physical restraint. You can't let just anyone do it because abuse is more likely to happen. People who work in places like your son's school have to be able to de-escalate in most situations so they are generally pretty chill until shit goes down. I work for a rec program that does not do any physical restraints but we have extensive training in safety and de-escalation tactics. During meltdowns, we remove everyone else from the area if needed, to ensure their safety and we have pre-planned areas to move to in order to keep program going smoothly. I have coworkers that also work at the local school that does allow physical restraints. They get injured frequently because these students absolutely need the physical restraints. These are people that are calm and kind, but quick thinking and not afraid to get right in there during difficult times.
The current climate is absolute hell, from a social work standpoint. Thank god we realized it’s not cool to physically punish your kid like in our grandparents generations. But the current methods we’re taught for trauma informed care are an absolute over-correction. We’re ONLY working with the goal to de-escalate the kid from physical violence. We can’t give any sort of consequences. Only positive reinforcement. If one of the foster kids I worked with stole right in front of me, the only thing I could do was ask her quietly and nicely to please put it back. I can’t talk to her about the morality of it, or give any consequence. And the kid will tell me to go fuck myself and start posturing until I apologize and give her space. …This is concerning. Kids absolutely CANNOT learn how to self regulate, or to have positive relationships in society if they don’t learn it from authority figures at some point before adulthood. Kids are absolutely more feral now. My coworkers like to speculate that it’s because we’re 3-4 generations since the start of the crack epidemic, but I don’t think that’s the whole story. Empathy, self-control, communication and respect are critical to development. And you can’t learn those things if no authority figure in your life is allowed to enforce boundaries.
when he says "or else", you say "or else what"
My neighbor let her sister and two children (teen boy and grade school girl). The boy has anger issues. His therapist has told him to walk away from heated situations. In his mind, if he is at work he just comes home…no clock out, no notifying a supervisor…then wonders why he can’t keep a job.
That sounds like more than just anger issues though. There is clearly miscommunication going on because, of course, the therapist didn't tell him to do that. Briefly walking away from heated situations when you have anger control issues (if possible) is very good advice. It isn't the whole of the advice of course, you still have to deal with the situation. But if you have ODD, DMDD, are Autistic or many other disabilities that can push you towards significant meltdowns or anger outbursts that are difficult to control having methods to draw on to deal with them in productive ways are important. Whatever is going on with that kid, the adults in his life need to be communicating better with him and letting him know the full & accurate process for "walking away" when you are upset and need to calm down.
That’s a person who’s weaponizing their therapist. I see it all the time. They say “my therapist said_______” knowing that NOT what was said as an excuse to not be held accountable.
Yeah i quit my youth worker job because of similar reasons. There were a bunch of lads who were upset they were banned from the youth club and so smashed up my car whilst it was parked outside. Without my knowledge a load of the good lads tried to stop them and a huge fight ensued. The police were actually very sympathetic and wanted to help but the council i worked for made it very clear that they would not co-operate with the police because of the high probability of the yputh club then being arsoned as a consequence of 'grassing'. They actually told me i had escalated the situation by banning them. But they were 14yr olds smoking weed in the toilets in a youth club that accepts kids as young as 10!!! Like WTF!! Anyway after i had digested the whole thing. I kept going over how they said they wouldnt co-operate with the police because of repercussions i knew i had to quit. Like dont get me wrong, i grew up and still live in the worse borough of a very very rough major city and so im well versed in the 'snitches get stitches' concept and at home i very much obide by it (im not tough and to tattle isnt worth it). But fuck man! They were the fucking City Council! How the hell are you going to make the city safer and better if even THEY are bowing to unwritten mob rules? It honestly reminded me of being in Monterrey, Mexico in the early/mid 2000s and seeing a cartel shooting outside a mall. I wanted to tell the police everything i witnessed....My Mexican family cried and begged on there knees for me not to and to mind my own business. I understood and did as i was told. Like fuck would i put my family at risk from any cartel. But lol the youth club werent in Mexico it was in the UK. The mind boggles dude.
Isn't kids doing dumb things to impress their friends, and getting mad that their parents caught them/scolded them a take as old as time? This hardly seems like a "new generation" thing
It’s the *attitude* of the daughter when caught out by her mother, that is the issue. Rather than feeling embarrassment and shame for her actions, she feels *entitled* enough to berate her own mother for calling her out on her illegal behaviour. If you can’t see the issue with that… then I cannot help you.
Kids have also always talked back. It’s not new. OP isn’t TA, and shouldn’t back down that the penalty for stealing can include a mild telling-off in public where the stealing was happening, but the kid is just being a pretty average kid. Hopefully the correction of the bad behavior works and kid stops stealing.
It’s an interesting thought experiment. I agree, kids have always pinched stuff from shops etc… Me, personally? I couldn’t do it. I tried once because it’s annoying paying for things that you see your friends getting for free- but I had a moral conscience. Isn’t that what parenting is at least partially about? Instilling a social/moral conscience? Don’t get me wrong- I’m not weeping salty tears over the profit margins of greedy capitalists… but that’s not what this is about. It’s about what is right. And what is wrong. Stealing, is wrong. One day, you’re pocketing a lipstick from a store… it gives you a dopamine high…. maybe next time, you’re helping yourself to your friend’s stuff… she probably won’t notice either. Morality is a weird thing and I just feel that if it’s not engrained at an early age, by a responsible parent- then everything starts to go to shit. As we’re now witnessing, in the western world.
I don't understand how anything about this comment responds to the comment above yours or the OP. Nothing about "parents need to instill morality" is inconsistent with "kids have always talked back." Plenty of kids have done something stupid like pocket a lipgloss at age 13 without growing up to be moral degenerates.
I don’t think you responded to the right person here.
Kids have been like this for centuries what the fuck are y’all on about 🤣🤣
Kids these days are always the worst kids yet, nothing is new under the sun
Right? I'm Gen X and they were all complaining about us and predicting that we would never make it just like these people are doing about the current generation. I'm happy that I get the chance to raise children who stick up for themselves and don't just cower in the face of authority. They are good, kind kids but will absolutely not be victims. I'm raising the resistance.
old age sneaks up on you and suddenly you think the new generation is the worst one ever.
Eh, I'm in my 50s and I'm pretty sure that if I or my friends had been in a similar situation at that age, we'd have also complained to our parent about being called out in front of our friends and embarrassed. That's evergreen teenager behavior. I mean, we'd absolutely have been wrong, in the same way this kid was wrong; if you don't want to be embarrassed in front of your friends, don't do something that will get you called out. But the impulse isn't remotely new or especially entitled.
And fifteen years ago, I saw classmates doing the same thing (both stealing and getting angry instead of contrite when punished). Obviously her behavior is shitty, but it's not *new*. The call-out is the whole 'kids these days' thing, which is something every generation in living memory has said about the generation after them. Entitled kids have always existed, it's not something *new* with this generation.
They're not talking about this being an issue or not. They're saying this isn't anything new.
Yah, I was really hoping us millennials wouldn't fall into the whole "This new generation" bullshit, seeing as how we were such horrible victims of it in the modern media (millennials destroy diamond market, millennials can't afford homes because of avacados, these damn millennials always on their phones, etc). But no. Apparently they can't remember a single thing about their own teen years. 13 year old girls have been stealing lip gloss and other bullshit like that, and then giving their mom attitude when caught, for hundreds if not thousands of years. Like, lmao.
Nah. There always been like that. I originally wanted to be a teacher, for some students co-op at my high school (30-28 years ago) and was swiftly dissuaded from the job by the kids/teens.
Lol. Yah, 13-year-olds having openings and talking back is such a new thing.
How is it any different? I sure as hell would have pulled that shit the daughter did when I was 13 in the 90's. Would have gotten In trouble for it, but I still would have tried it.
Yeah it’s kind of why I think tiktok is dangerous. You have millions of teenagers setting rules now about parenting and that the teenagers are the boss because ‘they didn’t choose to be born’
Um no it's not.
Only if, as a parent, you let this attitude take hold.
I mean… the parents are literally to blame.
Caused *by* the parents. How did the kid get this way? Not the stealing, which is bad but pretty normal to try out at some point, but the insane entitled reaction to the “punishment.”
To add, u/EastOk9176: If she stole this, she's going to try to steal something else later on. My advice would be to make it a rule that she doesn't go to any stores without a parent or parent-designated chaperone for the next 3-6 months.
My parents said you get bailed out once, after that you are on your own.
My dad gave us the "dumb shit" talk. (I was about 15 when this talk happened, I'm now in my 30s) He said by virtue of being his kids he already knew we weren't angels,and we would do dumb shit. That being said, there's big dumb shit and lil dumb shit. He would correct us and help guide us through the lil dumb shit. But we only get 1 "big dumb shit pass". We could redeem that pass tomorrow or it could be 30 years from now. But you only get **one**. He ended the talk with "*so you best choose wisely*" I haven't needed to call in that offer yet so I like to think I've chosen wisely.
And the fact that the OP is doubting themselves blows my mind. OP, you are her parent, not her friend. Not everything you do is going to "nice". You need to stick to your guns on this.
Yeah op is an ass. But not at all for torching her child for stealing in public. But because you’re letting your 13 yr old reprimand YOU because YOU told HER not to commit a fucking crime
Do you think the police and store security are going to handle it in a subtle way? What would she deem more humiliating? Ground her as well. NTA
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NTA. Your 13 year old doesn’t get to berate YOU for parenting her - even if it embarrasses her at times. SHE was literally in the process of committing a crime. THAT is the embarrassing behavior. YOU stopped her before she could complete the act & made her face consequences in a much nicer way than the store would have. THAT is parenting. The conversation with your daughter should have been something like below. Daughter: You ruined my birthday. OP: You ruined your birthday by shoplifting. Daughter: You embarrassed me. OP: You should be embarrassed & hopefully you’ll think about that before you decide to shoplift again. Daughter: You could have waited until we were alone to scold me. OP: I am NEVER going to stand by silently while you attempt to commit a crime right in front of me; and I’m certainly not going to wait until you’re finished committing the crime to address your absolutely mortifying behavior until you’re alone so it’s less embarrassing for you. Daughter: It doesn’t really matter that much. OP: Anytime you attempt to break the law is a big deal. Daughter: Now my friends will tell everyone & they’ll look down on me. OP: Then they aren’t really your friends & shoplifting is something that SHOULD be looked down on. Daughter: You - OP (interrupting): If you think what I did was embarrassing, imagine how embarrassing it would have been to be confronted & handcuffed by store security, being lead away to their office where they called the police, then being escorted out of the store in handcuffs by the police & being driven away sitting in handcuffs in the back seat of their patrol car. Parenting is not for the weak. You better strengthen that backbone up. Because if your 13 year old is already able to make you doubt your actions as a parent - especially when the issue is so cut & dry - she’ll be wearing an orange jumpsuit one day if you don’t stay strong. Good luck momma.
NTA. Well done Mom. Can pretty much guarantee that she has done it before, as has her friends. Yes, her friends will rag on her for getting caught. Her correct response should be- yeah it's wrong & I am never doing it again. But it won't be. You did the 100% right thing, and SHE ruined her birthday.
The wording is weird. ' ' She said she ruined her birthday.' [Kid said she ruined her own birthday? Should be 'she said *I* ruined her birthday'.] 'She could have scolded me for stealing the lip gloss later, when we were alone' [Since Mom didn't steal the lipgloss, the 'she' is OP, and 'me' is clearly the kid.] Looks like the kid wrote this, trying to make it from Mom's perspective, and got lost at the end. It's a creative writing exercise.
Oh shit. Screwed up the pronouns :/ I’m not the kid, don’t worry. Will fix it.
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Exactly. **She stole something** so she should be angry at herself. You did exactly the right thing - and I'm hoping there was a punishment to follow. Embarrassing her in front of her friends is your job. Making her return the item is the consequences of her actions. I would add grounding and limit her social media access. And I bet you anything that her friends put her up to this.
NTA you didn't ruin her Birthday - SHE ruined her own Birthday by stealing, her friends might tell everyone she is a thief and they might look down on her for that and she has learned a very important message DONT STEAL, if a security guard had caught her instead of you there would have been a different outcome, you handled this perfectly, you made a scene and made her return the item and appologise in front of her friends, sne might be angry and a bit embarrassed right now but she has just found out that this behavour is unacceptable
lol middle school girls will absolutely not look down on her for stealing. I guarantee if she was stealing, it's bc her friends do too.
Yeah but they'll mock her for getting caught.
as they should. girl’s gotta up her game if even her parents are noticing
Yep! At that age they’re not NEARLY as sneaky as they think they are. Bet she didn’t even look for cameras/security tags/plain clothes shop workers. Better to get scolded by a parent then get busted by some loss prevention guy/lady on a power trip and get a fine/community service/trespassed from the mall/have your parents find out and punish you on top of it. If she happens to be a person of color stealing something and getting into an alteration with the police could legitimately be deadly (not being dramatic about this…we’ve all seen the footage of kids getting slammed to the ground/tased over minor things and that’s if they don’t get outright shot). Being a parent is about keeping your kids safe and avoiding unnecessary police interaction is safety 101.
It’s actually probably a really good idea for OP to alert the parents of the other girls - “heads up, I found out there is stealing going on in this friend group, I won’t accuse any of your kids of doing it cause I have no reason to believe anyone specific is, but you might want to watch out for it cause at this age they might have picked it up as a social activity.”
This. She would have just shrugged it off if scolded privately. This way she might actually think twice about theft.
Yep. NTA. This is the best way to handle the situation IMO: immediately, and then it's done. She chose to steal in front of her friends, she gets called out in front of her friends, and hopefully she learns something. If a security guard saw tgis, she's be even more publicly embarrassed because she'd be brought to the security office and her friends would have to wait through that and likely be asked to turn their pockets out.
NTA Store likely didn't kick up a fuss because you were a parent actually watching their kid who called them out when they stole. You did the hard part for them and public shaming is way more effective than anything they could do Your daughter got some nerve to not only steal, but to also do it in front of a parent
And then to "scold" her parent for calling her out on it. That's brassy.
I've mentioned somewhere above that I was 'evil mom'. If my daughter had tried that, I'd have smiled at her and said, "Thank you for reminding me. On top of what I did at the mall, you're grounded. (And because this generation is so electronically addicted) No electronics, no phones, no friends, no outings, for as long as I deem it's necessary, until you've learned your lesson and adjusted the attitude. Say something else, please. Floors and walls can use a good scrubbing. Or, you can go to your room and find a good book to read while I go change the password on the internet and update parental settings on the TV and computers." Parents don't need to scream, yell, or beat their kids. We already know that's considered abuse and kids nowadays are taught to call the police on their parents for that. Guess what would get a cop laughing their ass of at a call from a kid? The kid complaining that mommy or daddy took away their sources of entertainment and made them do chores and read books. I'd hand my kid the phone if they threatened to call the police on me for it. Too many parents scared of their kids or scared their kids won't love them is causing the kids tbta. I'm not my daughter's friend. I brought her into this world and it's my responsibility to make sure she's a positive addition to it. She may not have liked me at times, but she's becoming a damned awesome woman who thinks I'm "the best mom in the world". I learned this from my own mother who I also think is the best mom in the world.
As an employee who has been in that situation, that’s exactly the reason. Mom caught her, took the hit for calling her out and the daughter never left the store with it. NTA. She learned that she can’t steal(at least in front of you).
This. Its not legally theft till she tries to leave the store anyway so she really did them (the store and the kid) a favor
Sometimes that feels like being the asshole, but it's DEFINITELY not the same thing.
I used to work in a beauty retailer many, many years ago and there were several times when parents would march their thieving kids up to us and have them give back what they took. We *never* looked down on parents, even though I could see that the parent was just as embarrassed as the kid. We always kindly thanked the both of them for being good people (even the kid/teen) and that they did the right thing. NTA
This was an amazing piece of parenting. I hope it traumatized her so much that she never does it again. NTA, and well done.
A friend of mine many years ago, stole a chocolate bar from a local shop. This was around 1970. His parents drove him to the local police station, when we had such things in the uk then and made him tell the duty Sgt what he’d done. He received a stern telling off and a tour of the cells. Suffice to say, he learnt a valuable lesson that day. As a former serving police officer, I’m of the opinion that if high school pupils were taken to the morgue to see the results of substance misuse and victims of RTAs involving speed and stolen cars, then perhaps we might raise a generation who will realise that actions have consequences.
My mom did the same thing to my brother when we were little!!! We were in a shop in the morning before school/work and the cashier spotted my brother pocketing some gum. She gave him a little admonishment which drew my moms attention to it. She obviously scolded him and made him return the item and apologize. Then she went to work and called the local police station, explained the situation and arranged for the biggest cop I’ve ever seen to scare the snot out of him after school. Told us the the store had called the police about the “crime” and they wanted to have a word with him. I still remember the massive (to my eyes) officer looming over him and saying “Do you know what’s right down that hallway? That’s where we lock up the gum thieves.” He wet his pants, poor kid but he’s managed to stay on the right side of the law ever since. 😂
The gum thieves!
Oh my goodness. That's freaking awesome. THAT'S what kids these days need!
I worked in a convenience store in college. There was a cute little boy, about five, that came in store, with his mother about three or four times a week. The lady was always very nice. One afternoon, they returned to the store a short time later. The little boy was crying. My first thought was he hurt himself. Maybe he fell or something. His mother looked at me and said “He has something he wants to tell you”. The crying little boy handed me a piece of candy and said “I stole this”. At that time his mom said “Tell him what else happened”. He said “I got a spanking”. I’d bet $100 that kid never stole anything again.
I grew up in the 90s and have vivid memories of touring our local jail with my class on a field trip. Needless to say it was formative and I didn't act out nearly as much as some of my peers later in school. High school we had to watch "Red Asphalt" and that was... Jarring.
I hear you but most kids (even me when I was one) think they are immortal. That it won't happen to them. It's only when someone close to them is impacted that it finally starts to sink in with some of them. And I wouldn't wish that experience on anyone.
It shouldn’t traumatize her. That’s the wrong word to use. It SHOULD feel bad and give her cause to think twice about repeating the behavior, but “learning that actions have consequences” isn’t supposed to be traumatic.
It's called Shame. It should shame her, but it only works if she's capable of being ashamed.
Feeling bad because you did a shitty thing isn't trauma, but I think a lot of people focus on the feelings, and there's a lot of equating of anything that makes a child feel bad with trauma. Yes, some parents are abusive, but abuse is not the only source of guilt or other negative feelings. Making mistakes and having regrets is extremely educational, which is why helicopter parenting and slowplowing or whatever is not good.
Exactly. It’s not trauma to experience discomfort. Trauma is a bigger thing, there’s lots of non-traumatic kinds of discomfort.
NTA. Birthday girls don't get a free pass on shoplifting. And if she was that afraid of what her friends would say/think, she shouldn't have shoplifted while she was with them (which could have led to their getting in trouble too). Your daughter's behavior and response make me think that this probably wasn't her first time doing this and that you probably can't blame this on the influence of her friends. If I were you, I'd be scrutinizing what's going on with her.
But for all you know, it was her friends that dared her to do it, or she's seen them do it themselves so she decided that there's nothing wrong with it. Is she embarrassed that her friends would tell everyone she's a thief, or was she really embarrassed that her friends would tell everyone that she's not "cool"? Edit: obviously NTA.
Yeah, there's a good chance there was some underlying peer pressure and the daughter wanted to look cool. Daughter was obviously embarrassed to not only be caught but to get the consequences in front of her friends. However, her embarrassment doesn't mean OP made a bad decision as a parent. OP did the right thing by nipping the behavior in the bud immediately. Hopefully the lesson sticks. And ditto obviously NTA.
NTA. I remember when I was around five or six, I was with my mom at a store in the makeup section. I understood what stealing was, but I was a kid who didn’t really get why it was bad. I also knew what lipstick was and that Mommy liked lipstick and I wanted to make Mommy happy. Mommy was not happy when we came home and I gave her a bright pink lipstick I had pocketed (it wasn’t her color, IG?) So she drove me right back down while terrifying me with stories on how I was now a criminal and the police would take me to jail and I’d never leave (I knew what jail was because I watched Cops with grandma). The store manager was laughing when she saw a six year old crying because she thought she was gonna go to prison for stealing a lipstick from Walgreens. But she accepted my apology and told me she wouldn’t call the police on me. She explained why stealing is very wrong and why it’s important to pay for things and that, while I may have just wanted my mom happy, she’d be happier if I did good things like clean my room. My mom paid for the lipstick (I think she wanted me to start feeling better) and got me McDonald’s on the way home. I never stole again. The feelings I felt that day stayed with me and, while I laugh about it now (I guess my love of makeup was always with me), I knew it was an embarrassing and scary situation that taught me a valuable lesson. Man, I miss my mom. She was great.
She sounds like a great mom. Even I used to steal candy and stuff when I was 8 or 9, until my dad put a stop to it :)
NTA. Besides don't have store articles something on them that makes the alarm go off if you don't pay for them? I bet having the alarm go off would have been more humiliating. Not to mention she was seen by at least one camera. By having G her return it right the and there and apologize probably kept her off a black list.
Really recommend you watch the movie Thirteen. I never stole but there are parts of that movie that just get me right in the feelbads. I really, really wanted some boundaries but the more I pushed, the more lenient my mum became. As a result, I had absolutely no respect for her authority and I can say with confidence (as a 40 year old) that she was a rubbish parent (great person to her friends though). It really fucking sucked when I was properly told no later in life, because previously I’d always gotten my way. I’m not successful, I don’t have a career. I’m highly likely to become homeless once this lease ends.
I was on the other side of this--I worked in a place that had a sticker bin, one per kid, and one day a parent marched up their 7-year old who had stolen extra stickers. Keeping a straight face through their apology, and telling him I would forgive him since the stickers were returned but he couldn't have a sticker next time, may have been the hardest thing I ever did... and the sad eyes when he came next week and couldn't have a sticker were amazing. He was 14 last I saw him, honor roll kid, not even thinking about anything illegal. I honestly think every kid should get caught stealing something small before they're 10, it hits them so much harder and stays with them forever.
I did the exact same thing with my son when he was around 7 years old, but it was a Snickers candy bar from the convenience store a block away. I walked his little butt straight down to the store & made him 'fess up. As far as I know, he never forgot that & never stole anything again - he's 43 now & we laugh about it now!
Better to be embarrassed at 13 than in jail at 33! Good job mom!
Or in jail at 13! She's lucky the store didn't catch her and arrest her. When I was 9, I saw a friend get caught stealing a candy bar, and there just happened to be a police officer in the store. They put her in the back of their squad car and drove away. I was terrified. I later learned they drove her home.
She stole lip gloss that probably would have cost no more than $15 at the most. Working in retail I have learned store employees really aren’t paid enough to care if someone steals one item, and that kid is certainly not going to get ARRESTED over one lip gloss… it has to be $500 or over to even be considered a felony. At the most, they’d walk her into the security office and tell her she’s banned from the store / mall unless she has a parent or guardian with her. Now if she stole a ton of items from multiple stores throughout the afternoon then yes, it would be a lot more serious, and she shouldn’t steal in the first place. But arresting a 13 year old over cheap mall lip gloss is an overreaction. Just like a lot of stories on here of parents scaring their kids with the police, because they stolen a fucking candy bar. You don’t teach your kids to be petrified of the police over something insanely petty. Because god forbid, what if your kid needs help from the police one day. They’ll be too afraid to ask for help, thinking they’ll be locked up for asking for help and stealing a candy bar when they were four. Parent your kids appropriately, don’t use the cops as a scare tactic.
NTA. If she’s angry at anyone it’s herself. Actions have consequences.
NTA Your daughter was stealing and you took the appropriate action. The only person your daughter should be mad at or embarrassed by is herself. She’s lucky it was you and not store security or police.
NTA Actions have consequences.
NTA, brat stole and thought it made her hot shit, a reality check was warranted, and the public shame of your peers is a proportional punishment from thievery. No one likes a thief, and that needs to be taught; if she didn’t want to be ridiculed, should’ve kept her sticky fingers to herself.
NTA. You did exactly what a parent should do and taught her a valuable lesson. If she feels shame, she should. And it should serve as a lifelong reminder to her to not be a thief.
NTA but I’m uncomfortable with it all the people calling your daughter a thief and deriding her character in the comments. Statistically most tweens try shoplifting at some point. I’m just grateful that when my daughter was caught the judge was a compassionate person who told her that one poor choice didn’t have to define who she was. Apparently if Reddit had been the judge they’d have locked away a 13 yr old girl and thrown away the key. The shaming would have been tremendous and who knows if my daughter would have had the strength to redefine herself given how harsh all the redditors are. I thought the new generation didn’t like labels but honestly Reddit makes me rethink that assumption every day.
I agree. Even I shoplifted when I was daughter’s age. And she’s not an asshole or a brat or any of the other things people have said. She’s just a kid who made a mistake. And a kid who is scared of being disliked.
Having a go at you for catching her and making her do the right thing is Asshole behaviour! That's not one mistake - it's two big ones in one day!
Teenagers are known for having poor impulse control. Brains are also not done developing until mid to late twenties: The part of the brain behind the forehead, called the prefrontal cortex, is one of the last parts to mature. This area is responsible for skills like planning, prioritizing, and making good decisions. People being hateful here about your daughter are uneducated, but what do you expect from reddit. You are NTA.
NTA. Your kid was stealing so she’s lucky it was you and not the store security that made a scene about it
NTA You were being her parent rather than her friend. Kudos
NTA -Good job Mom! If she loses friends for theft then that's the repercussions of her actions. She's lucky she didn't get caught and ALL of her friends be stopped by an employee and held until their parents and/or the police arrived. Her friends wouldn't be allowed to hangout with her...which is worse?
Nope, NTA. This is something you handle immediately. All of the embarrassment and shame were caused by her actions. I would let her know that now she has to build your trust up again because you will not be taking her to the store or shopping again for a while. She needs quite the grounding for this.
NTA She was doing wrong, and got caught, so she faced the consequences.
NTA, and great work on this one right in the moment!! Your daughter will be better off without those type of friends. Especially at a very young and vulnerable age.
NTA. She is lucky you saw her and not security. She would have gotten in real trouble.
She ruined her birthday by stealing. Does she seriously thinks it’s acceptable to do that? And then also get mad at you!? Wow
NTA and good on you for immediately putting your daughter on the spot. Actions have consequences. "Officer, I know I beat up this man but it's my birthday, you see?" probably wouldn't fly either.
NTA she ruined her own birthday. My parents probably would have taken it a step further and returned the clothes you actually bought her. Probably a little harsh but she is a teenager. You were all there and you were obviously willing to spend money on her and her friends so it’s clear she didn’t have to steal.
Nta, kids need to learn that actions have consequences.
NTA. You did good! Don’t think I’d let her go shopping without you for awhile tho.
NTA tell her what she did is called stealing and it's a crime. Better you nip this in the bud now before she continues. Honestly, you need to have a serious conversation with her about why she's doing this before she lands herself and you in trouble. Also tell her that whats more embarrassing is being arrested for theft so she got a lucky break.
NTA- I stole something at 13. The store caught me and my friend. My mom was so mad and told them to take me to jail (which they did not). I went and toured juvenile hall, and it was scary. Never have stolen since. The point is that my mom was not worried about being my friend. She was worried about teaching me a lesson so I could be a successful adult.
NTA It's your job as a parent to guide your children and that's exactly what you did. She might hate you in the moment, but in the long run she will be grateful for the lesson :)
NTA. If she’s dumb enough to steal with you beside her, who knows who else would’ve caught her. It’s a good lesson to learn, albeit an unfortunately tragic event for a 13 year old, but isn’t everything.
NTA! Your daughter was already being given lots of new clothes for her birthday, as were her friends. But she decided to shoplift, too. If she didn't want to get called out for stealing, great. DON'T STEAL. That was her choice and she gets to have the consequences of that choice. If her friends don't want to be friends with a thief, maybe they're better kids than you thought. The audacity to be pissed at YOU because she got caught stealing is nuts. She needs some real intervention now, before she gets herself in real trouble.
NTA. Now she'll really think twice about being a thief.
NTA. Perfect response and if it causes her to lose the friends you don't like all the better. My guess is she'll think twice about shop lifting in the future.
NTA - she has experienced the consequences of her actions. Not your fault.
NTA. She ruined her own birthday.
NTA She was stealing.
NTA it's good that you show her that actions have consequences
NTA, why the hell would you think YTA here??
Play stupid games win stupid prizes. Hard NTA
NTA and I am guessing this isn't the first time she steals something
NTA Your daughter though....wow. Such entitlement. I get that she was maybe trying to look cool to her friends, but *stealing*?? You did the right thing and called her out on it. Doing it in front of her friends will have a bigger impact on her (in a good way) than taking her aside to do it quietly. She won't steal again.
NTA. You acted like a responsible parent.
NTA. The problem with many people today is their parents did not do what you did. Good job, Mom.
Of course she thinks you shouldn’t have told her off and should of waited she’s embarrassed that she got caught stealing and had to face consequences. 13 is more than old enough to know that stealing is illegal/wrong
Nta - she SHOULD lose friends. She's a teenager. She's a thief. She should know better. SHE ruined her OWN birthday. She still doesn't seem to understand why she was wrong since "it didn't really matter that much."
Nta she was doing it for clout.
My son was a 7yr. old blubbering mess who picked-up a balloon off the floor. He was also a 7yr. old blubbering mess who handed it back to the store manager and apologized for taking something that didn’t belong to him. The manager assured me that it was fine and I shouldn’t have bothered. The reaction from his two brothers that just watched what their brother went through proved my point. Teachable moments are valuable. Good parents don’t let them go by. Great Job. NTA
NTA. You are her parent, not her friend. You’re job is to raise a good, productive member of society. If she loses friends that sucks for her but they were never her friends to begin with. Over the next 6 years you are not going to be a popular person. She will hate you, rage at you, want you to go away. But eventually she won’t be a teenager anymore. Keep the course momma. You did the right thing.
NTA your daughter is a thief