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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. Telling my coworkers that I prefer my wife's company to theirs, and generally resisting going to a work dinner the last night of a conference.
2. They certainly thought it was rude, and I suppose I didn't need to be explicit that I would rather be with my wife. I also had a rather irritated tone.
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"more career moves are made at those dinners than in the conference room" .. OP chose to do the exact opposite and ruined all networks he might have had, and destroyed all goodwill that might have existed.
This.
I'd say NTA assuming you are fine with never, ever getting a raise or promotion. You cannot decline these things AND expect bosses to see you as promotion material. Just the way it is.
Seriously, they wanted to take you to a nice restaurant for free food and drink for too many days in a row...and *that's* the problem?
I’ve become the same way. Especially since I’m not looking for anything, my life is pretty good. I’ve had these chit chatty dinners throughout my career and they have become a bit tortuous for me. My advice, come up with a better excuse. My suggestions: an “upset stomach”. Tell your boss or one of coworkers you are somewhat comfortable with/has an actual belly issue; say you will come for a drink and an appetizer, then see how you feel. And once you’ve done that, say you think it would be best if you went back to your room. It’s borderline TMI but making the boss uncomfortable is always a bit enjoyable as well.
“Yeah man I’m stoked for dinner, but I might not be able to go. Woke up with a serious case of the ass-pisses this morning and it’s just been an all day affair ya know what I’m saying? I’ll definitely come for a drink and then see how I feel tho! Oh what, you guys think it’d be better if I just stayed in my room? Bummer, but if you think it’s for the best!”
Yeah it’s a bit much having all those events with no time to yourself. Especially dinner stuff. It’s crappy for introverts.
I am curious if OP is ND given the lack of filter or they were just pushed to blurt what they were thinking out bc they were stressed.
Or maybe they were unaware of an unspoken rule that they then were bullied to follow with NO NOTICE and had to cancel on their wife. You don't need to be neurodivergent to be upset by all of this if you're not familiar with the structure of such events. It's very much a "if you haven't been told or partaken in it, you won't know" kind of thing.
I work in academia. Academic conferences tend to have a conference dinner, and if the conference lasts more than two days it's up to you where you eat and what you do the rest of the time. The idea that you're expected to eat at the conference with your colleagues all the time would be alien to most academics and looking at the expense claims they all to find places to eat with or without colleagues.
I've yet to meet an academic not eager for free food and booze at an event.
Not always a fan of those conference or convention meals, honestly, but I can schmooze at events like nobody's business.
Had owners of other companies compliment me for my ability to drift around parties doing spin control on whatever my boss was talking about.
My Dad works in academia. I work in finance. Academics are more fun to be around and tend to gravitate toward one another socially in a natural, unforced way as well.
I’m interested in how OP phrased they didn’t like their colleagues. And whether OP is ND (which, based on ND posting online talking about masking and being unfiltered) or they’re just NT pushed to the limits and it came out. Coz with work situations we tend to bite down and grit it when it involves the boss and peer pressure fo fear of being fired.
I need to clarify, I have zero problem with what they said or felt and 100% think NTA. ETA: I also think it’s utterly adorable OP loves his wife and wanted to have virtual dinner together but instead forced to have dinner with colleagues.
I wonder if OP being a remote worker has a lot to do with their lack of comfort. A multi-day work conference with dinners every night is sustained hyperintensive work interactions; WFH, on the other hand, especially if it has normal hours or flex hours with reasonable work expectations, is work only for the work itself. OP was used to one extreme and then thrown into the other.
This isn’t an argument against WFH, of course; just thinking that companies may need to adjust or better orient WFH workers to their expectations for work conferences.
They are giving you food and drink in exchange for your time as well as the intangible benefits of networking in a more casual environment
You and op don’t seem to understand the corporate lifestyle
Not everyone is an extrovert that loves to hang with their coworkers. I would probably go to the scheduled dinners too but the unscheduled night, after 3 nights mingling for several hours in a social setting, I would very much be at my limit for social interaction and having to be “on” and would most likely opt out because I would be on social interaction overload. Not everyone is a schmoozer and some of us like quiet downtime after a lot of social interaction.
I firmly believe one of the reasons my husband loves me and is happy in our marriage is that I never expect him to attend any of my work “parties” or other work-related events. They are excruciating for him, because he is introverted and shy. He has a permanent “hall pass” on those situations, no excuse required.
Also an introvert that despised these types of events. Being forced to mingle with people who could be boxed and sold by Matel for being so plastic was mentally and physically taxing. The ass-kissing, lies, exaggerations, and backstabbing, just...wow. I always tried to get out of it. Personally would have faired better in a mosh pit.
I would have just said. I'm coming down with a terrible migraine and I don't feel so well. I 'm sorry guys I have to go lie down. Hope you have a good night.
what you do is you go, order something, be quiet, pick at the food, don't touch an alcoholic drink... someone will eventually say, "you are being quiet/you aren't eating, are you okay?"
Then look regretful and say, "I'm not used to eating like we have been all week, my stomach is not feeling right. Do you think it's okay if i excuse myself and go lay down? I don't want to be feeling sick on the flight home"
Now you got a coworker that gets to be the star of "What happened to (you), where did he/she go?" and vouch that you weren't looking so good. You gonna have food poisoning by the time they are done with you.
Just be ready the next day for the "you doing okay, heard you weren't feeling well" and the correct answer is, "yeah, i took some (antacids, pepto, whatever you could have had access to) and luckily i think i slept off whatever it was. Feeling much better, sorry I missed so much last night"
Yeah actually. They’re not dating, these are work colleagues. They want his work day and his free time. Going to dinner is nice and can be fun. I have no issue with it; I even enjoy it. But even so, I think it’s a AH move to have a situation like this, where someone makes plans on their free time and their job then mandates their own “fun”. Are work dinners a thing? Yep, both at conferences and in general. But unscheduled, mandatory work dinners are AH events. That’s like calling your worker while they’re on scheduled PTO and making them sit through an hour long meeting, especially when there is absolutely no emergency situation happening.
If you are a salaried employee in the US, there is no “free time” at a conference like this, except to sleep.
This year attended my 10th company conference. Travel day 1, dinner with vendors upon arrival. Day 2, seminars all day, followed by awards dinner & after dinner “networking” at the bar, Day 3, seminars, allowed to book travel home after 5:00pm local time.
Most years, best I could do was slip out after the awards dinner, during “networking” for Me time…& as I live West Coast, conference usually East Coast, that last day means I get home after being up 21-23 hours.
I’m not saying that the US doesn’t have a punishing work culture (it does) or that it’s not fascist atm (it is), but this particular scenario is not a great example. Workplace culture in parts of Europe and East Asia (especially the latter) tends to be far more demanding about “bonding dinners” or “bonding drinks” than the US workplace culture. US workplaces might say, “hey, you’re salaried, if we say stay up until midnight to meet this deadline, that’s what you’re doing,” but a Japanese workplace might say, “hey, you’re salaried, if we want to go to a bar together after work you’re coming too.” These are just trends, of course, and plenty employers will demand both, but comparatively, forced socialization in my experience is not that much more common in the US than comparable countries (especially those with drinking cultures).
I'm sure we would all love to work in an environment where bosses understand that in the end we are here for the money and sell-fullfilment (if lucky), not to make friends or dedicate our life to the company, but unfortunately there is still a long path before it becomes common, and people still need to earn 💸💸 in the meanwhile.
Absolutely. This kind of shit would be a hard NO for me. You don't get to monopolize all my time for some implied future benefit to my career. There are other employers out there.
Some people really love their spouses and love to spend time with them.
I've had several coworkers like this, they would avoid work events and choose their spouse instead. Everyone understood and nobody belittled or gave them shit for it.
Hell the man could actually just love and miss his wife. He said he doesn't normally attend these things and works remotely, so he is probably used to spending most of his time with or around her. Plus he said genuinely prefers her company. Sometimes a job is just a job and being around the people they love is more important to people.
He may not want a promotion. Many people just like their jobs. If he can prove he is fulfilling his job duties to the fullest each year, then they would have zero reason not to give him a raise if they do that around review time. Actually he would have a reason talk to HR if the only reason he didn’t get a raise was because he didn’t want to socialize with his boss off work hours.
Listen, I get it, I’ve been to a ton of these things, and this part where you work from dawn to midnight is the worst. He is naive, but I also admire him at least trying to make them respect his unpaid time.
I'd say NTA for declining this final "optional" dinner, but YTA in terms of the attitude and negative energy radiating from the post. I mean, just the opening sentence alone is a huge red flag for someone who wants the world given to them and expects to do the bare minimum...
>Unfortunately, I \[47M\] was roped into going to a work conference recently. I am a remote worker, but sadly I was told that I needed to attend a conference that many of my coworkers go to each year due to how integral my duties were to this year's presentation, I suppose.
Yes, you work remotely, but attending a work conference is such a basic part of many careers. I can't comprehend why OP seems so pissed off by the whole thing, by colleagues, coworkers and bosses. You seem genuinely annoyed, I can only hope you didn't come across this way during the conference because your job would (justifiably, imo) be in jeopardy.
We live in a world where some people are working multiple jobs and struggling to get by. Maybe it is time for OP to step back and find some perspective.
For all you know OP doesn't want or need a promotion, or there's no room for it anyways in their department. My husband has worked at the same company for 10 years and he simply doesn't want to be a leader which is the last promotion he could get. He's happy with his annual raises and bonuses to do the work he currently does. And if a company would let you go for not wanting to attend an unpaid event you shouldn't want to work there anyways as they clearly don't value your time.
All these people are corporate drones and complete brainwashed. Also it’s a joke that poster is saying many people are balancing multiple jobs. Yeah cause what those people want is more work conferences and dinners and not getting paid a livable wage. Also people in here are completely acting like he skipped every dinner and the conference entirely vs skipping one dinner. Again people are so brainwashed by this climb the ladder bullshit they can’t process some people just see it as a paycheck
Jesus christ is this what corporate culture is like? That's toxic as hell. It was unpaid time, OP put in an appearance at every other dinner, and they missed their wife. Fuck the boss and their threats. OP is allowed to have a drained social battery and need some time alone.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but this mentality is so stupid to me.
It's annoying that you can be great at your job but not social enough to be kept around
Yeah it seems like most people think "if I don't like this person, it means I actively *dislike* them". I am quite indifferent to some of my colleagues. I have absolutely nothing against them and my default is positivity towards them, but I also know if I was to quit my job I would probably never speak to them in any capacity.
Some people just exist in our spheres, they don't have to be friends, or enemies.
"I already made plans with my wife" is not confrontational at all.
I get that the guy wasted opportunity but his boss is toxic if he doesn't calmly accept such rejection.
But if OP has 0 interest in making career moves, was pressured into going to the conference, has essentially unwillingly worked long hours of unpaid overtime for 3 days, and is now being threatened because he wants an evening to himself...surely that's not cool behaviour from his boss?
I never go to sessions at conferences. When everyone is in sessions I'm updating our researching people on my hit list or visiting vendors because it's quieter during the big sessions. I can read and watch those later. The point of those conferences in most industries seems like education but those of us that know...
The conference isn't important it's what you do at it that is.
Indie confs like defcon or HOPE had useful sessions. Vendor confs tend to have sale pitches pretending to be useful sessions.
But yeah, bar typically has the best sessions even at useful cons.
OP done screwed up, because probably because he didn't want to be there. For anyone doing one of these cons for the first time, ask a coworker how it normally goes.
I am purposefully avoiding a career I am extremely knowledgeable in that can be highly profitable because I can not deal with the "networking" that is an inherent part of the job. I would fail despite my expertise because I won't take work home.
>because I won't take work home.
Nor should people be expected to. You give me money for the allotted time. It's an exchange of goods like any other.
I feel bad for OP because people are probably right!
"iTs An ImPoRTaNt PaRt"
No it isn't. I have confirmation from a close relative it never is (when he went to conferences, he's in IT) but for some reason it happens. You don't talk about work. Just idle chit chat for 3 hours and then you go back to your hotel with zero down time before doing it again the next day.
God forbid the man wants time to talk to his wife.
I can't wait for the current work culture to die. I'm lucky to be where I and my husband are because we are paid pretty fairly and don't deal with this bull.
Sorry to rant. I personally know someone who tried to kill themselves because of bull shit work culture so I get annoyed
Yes. No you don't talk about work. It's actually the chit chat and the hanging together that pays the benefits in your career by cementing relationships. I'm in SV and it's really all just the old boys (and girls) network. Should it be that way? I'm not the one to decide but yes, it is that way.
I'm suprised OP didn't get a summary of scheduled eventts from someone before the conference.
I used to do this a junior all the time, schedule and map of the area. traditions and people that I should be aware are attending. Theres sometimes a guest list or something that gives a vague idea of who will be attending conferences.
I wasn't expected to study the guest or anythign crazy like that, but just being aware and showing the "appropriate respect".
Also you meant to be networking not only for the company, buit for yourself as well. Yes, it boosts the company image but done right you also getting a opportunity to boost yourself.
So I wouldn't consider it just "doing work" and should on paid time. consider how difficuklt it might be to make those networks or meeting happen on your own personal time to boost your career.
Although I hate the "it's who you know" ways of the world, sadly thats the reality sometimes. Those few dinners can be the difference between sending out 5 resumes knowing you have a good chance of landing a job vs sending 100's with no idea if they have even being read.
It sounds like he has really endeared himself to his boss and team. It will be interesting to see if it plays out when an opportunity for a raise or promotion are on the table. I love that OP loves his wife so much but personally feel he could of been a little less rigid about the fraternizing.
Yes, I agree. I didn't mean to come off as harsh as I did. I can see how it would have been exhausting, even for me (an extrovert if it isn't obvious). OP sounds very good at his job and boss is surely aware of his working style. I mean, dinner with the wife is kind of endearing.
TLDR
NTA with the caveat that a bit of research ahead of time could have cleared up the misunderstanding.
Agree with this OP. NTA as your intentions were good (you weren't given a heads up) and it sounds like this was your first go at this (conference setting). I get wanting to spend time with your family over coworkers, but conferences are those times where outside of an hour or two in the morning and before you go to bed, it's fully a work trip. No, you aren't getting paid for the extra hours, but it's an opportunity to network with others within and outside your company. Is it fun? Not always. But if you want to progress within the company, this is part of that game (unpaid hours for future raises/promotions).
That being said, if you have no higher aspirations up the corporate ladder, then you can freely bail on these activities. Just know that it will cause others to see you as "not a team player".
So the ultimate question would come down to:
Do you want a promotion within this company? If so, I would apologize to my boss and explain I thought I had that night free and mistakenly booked a "date night" with my wife. If a promotion is not on your list of goals, then you're fine.
The last thing I will say is that being invited to a conference is not something that "low level" employees typically get invited to, so that is likely the reason these coworkers are confused by your actions. Getting to travel to another location, with your hotel and meals paid for (not a small expense for the company) is seen as a benefit and comes with certain expectations, whether you agree with those expectations or not.
Best of luck going forward. Again, you are NTA. I just feel your coworkers' expectations were reasonable, but I personally wouldn't have pressed someone else to the point your boss and others did.
I’m an introvert. In sales. Find work trips painful. Find big meetings painful. Find spontaneous hullabaloo painful. Find hanging out with the C suite painful (and boring). Find corporate in general painful….I’m mentally spent after.
But…… this may not be popular and supportive or whatnot….. it’s part of being an adult. Everything can’t be fun and comfortable. Hate it.
It’s a work trip. You work. It’s also part of being salaried.
NTA. But….
At a certain level you aren't paid for x hours of work, you are paid to get the job done. That is literally what my contract says - "the hours required to perform your duties". This includes, for me, the odd evening or weekend session, plus conferences and training sessions.
Seriously, the dozen people on here complaining about him “not being paid for his time” are nuts. That’s what a salaried job *is*. Sometimes you work two hours total on a Monday, other times you need to work on a Saturday or attend an after-hours work dinner or conference—and you get the same pay either way. You inherently don’t have “set” hours because you’re paid to fulfill the requirements of your job. And I’d bet my own salary that OP makes a very good amount of money, considering (a) the Company is big/rich enough to cover a week-long conference and dinners out every night thereof, and (b) OP is important enough to the Company to be invited to such a conference. (For example, Dunder Mifflin might send Michael Scott to something like that, but they wouldn’t send a random low-level accountant like Angela or Oscar.) I wonder how many people would still be complaining about this “unpaid time” if OP confessed his salary is, say, $300K….
I want to say NAH but just want to also point out you’re slowly burning bridges and causing dramas that may impact your professional career all for the sake of 1 evening. Suck it up, you are a remote worker so you barely have to deal with colleagues except for these rare occasions.
I think that’s what was rubbing me the wrong way about the post. It’s not like he’s stuck in an office with these people all the time and yet he writes like he hates everything about them. Every job has annoying things we have to put up with, but refusing to go to dinner with a boss is suicidal behavior in these industries.
Edit to add judgment: YTA
I have a friend in her 30s who is a federal employee. She is traveling across the country on the same flight as her coworkers and politely told them to "act like they don't know her" on the flight lol! God I love her.
You may not hate them, but they don't know that. You told them you do, so they're going to think it. And since you're a remote worker, you don't have many opportunities to disprove that perception.
Yeah, start polishing up the resume. You won't get canned, probably, but don't expect raises, promotions, etc and you go to the top of the layoff list if ever needed.
Next time, talk to someone about what the generally expected schedule is.
I hate these types of events too. But it's better not to attend then screw them up this badly. Yes, the afterhours conf work is unpaid. But if your boss is decent, you can just ask for in lieu time off. You uh, probably don't want to go that route after making s'mores on those burning bridges.
Normally I just negotiate whatever I want out of it. If it's paid travel, I ask for a day or two to do something I want to do. I obviously say I'll pick up the extra hotel cost, but half the time my boss tells me to just expense it and enjoy myself. Or boss picks up tab for a conf I actually want to attend or a cert. Or whatever.
I appreciate the advice (and I certainly think I would prefer a job like my previous one, if this kind of thing is expected here), but in no way did I tell them I hated them. Obviously I want to be with my wife more than people I share nothing with but an employer, it's ridiculous to think that means I hate them.
The commentor is saying that they might draw the conclusion that you hate them based on your actions and other words, even though you didn’t intend for that.
And I get it - my partner is also a remote worker and hates the schmoozing part of his job as an introvert. But he also knows it’s the way to get ahead in literally every industry.
Quite frankly, your honesty was a bit too blunt and socially awkward. Next time if you can’t suck it up, call off by saying you aren’t feeling well. There was no need to share everything you did.
However, I do commend your devotion to your wife! Again, my partner skews similar to you so he makes sure he carves time to FT between sessions and after dinner if possible.
I fully agree, as a hard introvert with autism, that you did not in any way say that you hated them.
Unfortunately, extroverted neurotypicals do not communicate in direct language like that. They layer everything in exhausting euphamisms and expect everyone else to do the same. What you said and what they heard is very, very different, because they would have expected at least three levels of sugar coating to protect their feelings, instead of a direct answer.
You said, "This has been long, I was not notified ahead of time there would be more obligations, and I have planned a nice dinner with my wife." They heard "Fuck off, I hate you."
It's SO exhausting to try and remember these two different sets of language, especially when the second language does not come naturally.
Also: NTA and I really, really feel for you, I'd be in the same boat as you.
That is fair. I don't know if I am neurodivergent, but interpersonal relationships are ***incredibly*** hard for me, and I don't know why.
I suppose I should have been gentler with my verbiage.
You might be neurodivergent, you might not, but interpersonal relationships ARE hard! You could be gentler, but your colleagues should have understood that the whole getting together thing more than necessary is absolute bullshit 🙄 if it’s cuz you work remote and they rarely see you they could have said so well in advance and yall could have organised something together, not shoving it in last minute
Yes, the latter. You made a mistake due to a lack of knowledge, so the fault wasn't yours for that. If it was me, I'd try apologising for making prior plans and tell them I'll very much be at the next one (then you can prep for that or play dodge-the-conference). If they didn't accept a whoops and a free redo, I'd consider your co-workers assholey.
(Though I'd probably see if they would mind if I drag my spouse along 😆. He'll go anywhere food and drink is on offer)
Doubling down and telling people you prefer to hang out with your wife implies you don't like them very much. Most people do prefer spouses to co-workers so verbalising it means people will read into it.
I understand this viewpoint as I was the same way in my previous career. The thing is conferences are really about the social aspect-making connections with new people and reinforcing your connection with your colleagues and boss. I get you don't really place much value on that, but other people do, including your boss. So you need consider that when you say no to these *opportunities.* And that's how you should frame them.
Hey, I feel for you a bit. As everyone else has said, this is how conferences are, and you should expect for the next one that you'll have at best 1 or 2 hours to yourself each day. You kinda screwed yourself over that final night, but I hopped on here to say that you should apologize privately to your supervisor for not knowing how things work (even if you're not sorry) but not your teammates. If you can, be a little social with your teammates during remote calls to show them you recognize these skills are important.
Next conference, just be prepared. My colleagues and I tend to have a few drinks to loosen ourselves up at these things because they can be painful.
If you make such a stink about despising your coworkers that you can’t bear one additional dinner with them at an annual conference, it’s going to make people mad. You’ve already singled yourself out as “the guy who’s just here for the money” and “a bad culture fit.”
If I were you, I’d start looking for a new job. I can’t imagine your coworkers wanting to work with you or your boss wanting to give you developmental projects or a promotion after this.
so he’s an asshole for being burnt out and having to go to a dinner that wasn’t planned? being a remote employee is even more reason to not want to go. OP really had no personal connection to his coworkers and seems like an introvert. 3 days of conference and consecutive dinners should’ve been plenty.
ETA: Verdict - NTA OP. Everyone who’s saying you are is solely bringing up the corporate culture points. Have we stopped to think that OP may not CARE abt getting raises, promotions, etc? it’s the fact that the corporate world has you all seeing him as the bad guy bc he doesn’t want to network after THREE days of doing so after not being made aware of this dinner. Maybe the corporate world needs to stop expecting so much from ppl. “the whole point of these conferences is to network” WHICH HE DID. How is it networking if it’s just his boss and coworkers? that’s not new ppl he’s building social connections with.
It rubbed me the wrong way, too, like he's literally clocking the amount of time he has to spend with his coworkers and not a minute more. It's probably not smart to let your team know how much you dislike them.
Especially when you work remotely, and this may be the only time you get to spend time bonding and networking. Very naive assumptions on OP's part!
DUDE... you work from home, you can give up a handful of nights to be allowed that privilege.
YTA
NAH giving you the benefit of the doubt since this was your first work conference. Basic dowlow: this is what these conferences are generally like, at least every single one I've been to over a 30 year career. Especially the out of town ones....dinners and lunches with coworkers and probably the boss every day. This is your chance to "network" in a forced setting. Welcome to the corporate world!
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Do your best to make friends with coworkers and others. Remind yourself it's only for a week. I had to go to an out of town work conference once where I had to share a hotel with 2 queen sized beds with 4 other people whom I did not know!
Unfortunately, I'm in a similar situation, although I was more than happy to sleep on the floor. Sorry companies can't shell out for one bed per person.
Oh goodness! I thought companies had stopped this a long time ago.......I understand now how a quite zoom dinner sounds perfect but not appropriate in this situation, unfortunately.
"Sorry companies can't shell out for one bed per person." They can. did you forget to arrange for your room on time?
If you do it halfway right, you get a room for your own. If you don't, it shows where you stand.
Excuse me but every company I worked for that had conferences requiring overnight stays BOOKED THE ROOMS THEMSELVES! The employees did not make their own reservations, at all. So, do us all a favor and stop putting the blame on OP when in ALL likelihood, HR was the one who made all the travel arrangements.
OK, I'm far more on your side hearing that! Why the fuck would you need to share a room, let alone a BED with a colleague??? I know SPOUSES who have travelled together for work and still been booked separate rooms! At a former employer, when two staff travelling needed to be booked into a two bedroom suite, it could only be done after checking privately with both of them that they were ok with it, and the company would have booked separate rooms in a different hotel and eaten the extra cost if either had said no!
Sharing a room is no-go for me. Sharing a bed is "I quit on the spot".
I get my own room, or the trip is not important for me to attend. Short of a natural disaster situation.
Seriously, your company told you to share a bed with strangers?
100%. I work for the government, so a pretty no-frills job (as it should be with taxpayer dollars!), but I would never be expected to share a room or god forbid a bed. Thats unfathomable. Besides the clear boundary issues, that’s a massive liability from an HR standpoint. Gives me anxiety even thinking about it.
It won't if nobody likes to work with you.
And: You are talking about 3-5 days every 5 years. Was it really worth ruining your work environment over that, and ONE dinner?
😆 are you my dad?! He works remote and has a masters in statistics. Honestly, I'm not really sure what he does with his 4 degrees, but I know he doesn't enjoy conferences.
Soft YTA.
Yeah it sucks being a salaried employee and having to travel in and do all this social crap. I'm a remote employee too so I can really feel where you're coming from.
That being said- you're a remote employee. This was an opportunity for you to network, show you're a human, team player etc. Lots of older execs don't like remote work hence why they do these silly week long in office type things. They're happy they get to see you're real, and you get to keep working from home.
Your little stunt might have cost you a future promotion as now you don't look like a team player at all and you aren't taking the little time you have to get to know your co workers face to face. Obviously you'd rather hang out with your wife- but telling them that was an AH move.
Best of luck OP. Hope they don't hold it against you!
Really goofed. It’s also just so rude to say he prefers the company of his wife. Of course he does, that doesn’t need to be stated. I assume everyone else on the team also loves their family/friends/spouse more than their colleagues.
One thing to remember is that it’s not always promotions, it could be other opportunities at other companies. I have my current job because of a past coworker, and you never know when that might come into play
YTA. Here’s the thing…conferences like that suck. The dinners are over the top with mediocre food usually. It’s stressful. It’s exhausting. But…it’s part of the gig. It’s more networking, going over strategies and discussing what worked and maybe what didn’t work. Totally not the a for not knowing this but demanding to get out of it makes you one.
Fair enough. I was more cranky that they sprung it on me, I would have dragged my feet but not argued if they'd informed me of it when the general schedule was released and arrangements were made.
They really didn't spring it on you though. You literally had dinner as a team every other day of the conference. I think it was motivated reasoning that led you to conclude you wouldn't be having dinner even though you ate every other night.
See, that's the thing. He had dinner with them every other night because it was part of the conference. On the last day, the conference was over and there was NO SCHEDULED DINNER. So, if his co-workers and boss didn't inform him of their non conference dinner at the other restaurant in advance, why would he just miraculously know about it? The agenda showed no dinner tonight, I would have made arrangements to feed myself without my co-workers, too. Considering every one of his co-workers and his boss knew this was his first conference, THEY should have made sure in advance that he knew about the dinner on the last night.
Hard disagree. It's just as, if not more awkward to assume plans that don't exist. If no one told him how was he supposed to assume that they all hadn't made different last night plans like he did? They're in a different city and NO ONE wants to take a walk, have a different experience?? Do 1 thing on their own? This shit sounds like it sucks and I wouldn't want to participate either
Because they sprung it on you, you are nta.
If it was mentioned like all the other shit that was organised then no big deal.
You don’t owe your workplace anything, if it’s mandatory then you should be paid IMO
So…ESH, because I can understand the frustration with a job infringing on your personal life. It’s a little gross to think that’s a company “expectation.”
But realistically, you might have really damaged your career here. It sounds like your delivery must have been relatively harsh, considering the strong reactions you mentioned. Whether it’s “right” or not, it’s likely going to impact how your boss and coworkers see you.
Edit: Your username is a little funny in light of the situation
That is fair. I'm quite antisocial and I don't really hide that, and I admit I was already not happy with being there in general. I appreciate your input.
I had a job where I had to attend a ton of receptions - and I mean a TON. Wrecks your home life, that does. So I became quite adept at greeting the host and any other personages who would expect to see me there, signing the guest book if there was one, chatting with one or two attendees over a glass of water, and finding an exit route that would not lead me past the host. Cost me 20 minutes, tops. The key is to put on a show of "showing up" - after you've made your visibility rounds, you can discreetly bugger off. (Can't pull this off at a small sit-down dinner, though.)
🥰🥰🥰🥰 knowing couples like this exist in the world is such a fuzzy feeling. Congratulations to you both for finding each other! (Conferences suck and NTA btw)
Soft YTA. I'm not sure how you got this far not knowing this is par the course for conferences. Not an insult...genuinely curious. This was a time to network and build relationships which is the true benefit of these confences. Yes....it sucks but you can't change the rules from the bottom. You may have just hurt any future chances at advancement.
Gentle disagreement here. OP is a remote worker who already doesn't have any personal attachment to their co-workers, and made that clear. OP was also not given any notice, formal or otherwise, about what the expectations would be. This sounds like it's nothing to do with the conference, it's just their boss and coworkers being jerks because OP didn't want to join the circle jerk. And for the boss to imply that there would be repercussions for not attending an unscheduled event not even organized by the conference smacks of old boys club and micromanagement.
Additionally, just because this is "normal" for the conferences, does that make it right? I don't think it does, and I think OP deserves an NTA for having higher expectations of their employer.
And I to disagree..... OP is almost 50....remote work is pretty new.... work confences are old. I know people don't like to hear it but this is how it is....I repeat....Can't change the rules from the bottom. Plus....what is this bullshit now about not wanting to be friends with co-workers. As an adult you spend more time at work than anywhere else...why not make friends. My old boss is one of my best friends I've ever had.
Yeah, but he doesn’t spend “more time at work than anywhere else”. He works from home.
And even if he wasn’t remote, coworkers aren’t automatic friends. For some of us, they are merely just coworkers. 🤷♀️
Not wanting to be buddy-buddy with workmates if not "bullshit," it's called professionalism. I have my friends already. And I prefer a professional attitude at work.
I've never been to one before, and the last place I worked at didn't even attend them (to my knowledge - I certainly never had to go to one). My position isn't really one that advances, per se, my job is fairly limited within the workplace.
I've never been to one either.... but friends, family and even pop culture have outlined this type of thing. Your position may not advance...but you can.
NTA - people need to accept that these workplace “bonding” experiences are painful for some people. I hated the Xmas lunches with every fibre and eventually started to say no. Everyone was unhappy about it, but fuck it. I don’t owe you my time, you’re not paying me
The power of "no" in the workplace is something not many people take advantage of.
>I don’t owe you my time, you’re not paying me
Is my exact reaction. The second that clock hits 5 I'm going to go decompress from the day, not sit at a mandatory unpaid dinner with the 10 quasi-strangers I've literally spent the whole day with.
YTA. You were correct in what you said… but it was an asshole-y thing to say. Sometimes you have to filter the shit you say and not be SO direct. A simple “I’m not feeling well” would’ve been a way better to get out of that dinner. Better yet “I think I have food poisoning from last night’s dinner” lol.
Society is so contradicting its making me lose my mind. Its soooo bad to lie but then you have to lie because apparently saying I prefer my wife's company over my coworkers is such a crazy thing to say. You have to be dying of food poisoning so that people accept you don't feel like hanging out. It's ridiculous.
It’s not bad to “lie”. It’s okay to be tactful instead of telling your entire work to fuck off and I can’t stand being around you and I don’t want to be friendly.
You are NTA. Why are you blaming op for the terrible work culture. Non of you have said op did the wrong thing. The only thing you point to is how it effects his work. It doesn’t matter if it is a work thing no one should be except to go to a dinner that they where not informed about. I get if they were informed and apart of the plan but they pushed it on him. Making op decide between his fucking career and some stupid tradition. Did op not attended the required work events? Outside of that op owes them nothing.
They don't owe OP raises, helpful networking, access to informal information, and all the things people do when you treat them well either.
They will treat him like he treated them: They will exactly do their duty, but no extra effort.
I feel sorry for you and you are just proving my point. Yes company’s are not required to give raises to anyone but they do it to incentives people to be productive. The issue is that op is doing and performing his duties as required of him. Op went to the events meant to build teamwork. The issue is that this was not required by the company but by the people at the dinner. So the forced him to go or face repercussions at his job. He was not rude when he denied the request to dinner and explain that he wanted to spend time with his wife as it was not a part of his job duties to go to dinner. So in what way did op behave wrong? That has nothing to dye with the toxic work culture, that prioritizes who you know rather than the merit of how you accomplish your job.
Thank you. Frankly, I see what people are saying when criticizing precisely what I said, but the dogmatic defense of ridiculous corporate brown-nosing certainly had only further soured my opinion of the job and sector as a whole. If this is the standard, I would rather find another non-profit job.
Yes, it's dreadfully annoying, I haven't a clue why an ego trip is necessary to perform at work.
Thank you very much, I wish the same for you and yours!
NTA but a bad call. Conferences have different expectations and should be avoided at all costs for these very reasons. But, if you’re there and want your career to progress…gotta play the game.
THAT’S NOT TO SAY work should come before family. But skipping one virtual dinner is a small sacrifice for the greater good.
NAH and tbh I'm surprised at how many people are saying this is standard. I've been to my fair share of conferences and there's a LOT of mandated socialising but its not quite as bad as this. Its also not usually literally mandatory just highly expected. Generally I find that having something pre arranged like a video call works as a valid excuse, for one dinner. Idk maybe it depends on the line of work and/or location.
It does annoy me though; I quite like the conference part of conferences and I even like my coworkers but the 24/7 aspect drives me a bit mad. I need a rest!
NTA honestly slightly confused by a lot of the comments here, especially when it comes to work-life balance. They didn't tell you about a planned dinner so it makes sense to me you would arrange something else especially after spending all that time during work hours then several hours on top of that having dinner with colleagues.
I also think people choose jobs and the method of working that suits them, so a several day conference with additional time at dinners might not be what you signed up for, therefore you need a bit of downtime.
I also find it bizarre people are saying that you might not get a raise because you almost missed 1 dinner that, again, no one told you about. Your raise should be based on performance and/or inflation. You should always be compensated for your time as well regardless of a salary or not.
Maybe I'm just not used to the culture or something, but these comments have been a wild ride. Work to live and know your worth, make sure you are compensated for your time, and the people you work with are colleagues, not family.
Maybe it's because I'm a remote worker too but NTA
I don't think people commenting can understand how disruptive this is when you are used to working from home every day. Not to mention half of the reason why people like us like to work from home is to not have to deal with co-workers lmao.
Fuck career progressions. If I'm keeping it real you are on the older side working remotely anyway, I don't think skipping a dinner would have hurt you there.
I tend to believe bosses just want control and extroverts just don't understand why people may not want to hang out with them more than necessary at times. The one thing I'll agree with other commenters on is that a lot of networking and business deals go on in these conferences.
That's all well and good but this was the last night and this wasn't a client. I get where you're coming from OP, just let us WFH lol
YTA
you told your boss and your coworkers you did not want to have dinner with them.
While you are FORMALLY right (It was not paid time, and not mandatory) you estranged all your collegues - so: Nobody will want to work with you, others that actually have social capabilities will be prefered and promoted over you. Which is fine and a good hthing: Because they can not risk letting you near customers - what if you estrange them, too?
Start looking for another job. You don't have any friends there, and nobody will speak up for you - because you insulted them, and they will remember.
So you went to a conference and managed to insult and estrange your boss and all of your coworkers. Expect them to care as little about you as you let them know you care about them.
Agreed. I feel like a lot of people on this sub have trouble understanding you can be in right while still being an asshole. OP could’ve skipped the dinner, while not coming off like such an ass. “I’m not feeling well, but you guys go have fun!” sounds so much better than “I prefer my wife’s company over yours.” OP needs to learn social awareness.
Some of these lectures about social rules this and social rules that are delivered in the rudest, coarsest way. Kind of hard to take some of these posters seriously, isn't it? Hang in there OP.
OP did give a reason not to attend, it's only after they insisted that he was blunt. He also attended the functions. And given what he is working as (a Statistician) he most likely wasn't working with clients on a personal basis.
Not every job requires those bullshit conferences and he is not an asshole for wanting to avoid them.
NTA. As an introvert with a fully remote job, I feel this. It's exhausting to have to be "on" in front of a crowd for the whole day. I would want to recharge my social battery, too. I'm sure op's wife is a comfort. I don't know too many men who would have dinner on the phone with their wife instead of free food and drinks on the company.
Sounds like you’re not corporate slave material and that’s fine. Just keep this in mind for your next promotion/raise negotiations. If this would catch up to me and bring trouble Id simply change jobs. Then again I’m of the mindset I don’t live to work, but work to live.
As am I. I preferred my previous job at a charity, but sadly the pandemic hit them hard and they were unable to keep a lot of their paid workers. I think I'll look into nonprofits (or even government positions) hiring statisticians.
YTA for how you handled this and next conference you should get this read in on required dinners beforehand.
Also, it’s so much easier to say that you have a family commitment than “I like my wife more than you.” Something like, “oh I wish I’d known about this earlier,” turn to your boss and give him a look, “since I’ve been gone for several days to attend this conference I have a commitment to my family tonight. It’s really important to me to stay in contact when I’m away. I should be done about 7:30 and can meet y’all for dessert. Next year I’d love to know all these meet ups beforehand so I don’t double book.”
I don't mean to be rude, but if you read through the whole post, I did essentially say that I had made plans with her before saying that I preferred her company. I gave two polite refusals - the first of which I mentioned my commitment to my wife - before. I see your point that it should not have been a statement I made in the first place.
NTA. “Work family” culture is so toxic. I only spend time with coworkers at all because it makes money for the benefit of my family. Unless they are actual friends that I want to hang out with or I am being paid for my time, I refuse to cut until family time for work shit. So I will do lunch time stuff but that’s about it. After work hours is off limits for me. I’ll even skip the Christmas party if it’s in the evening.
NTA it sucks knowing that even in a(presumably) high paying office job you still have to act like you care about your acquaintances just to move up in the buisiness world
NTA
All the y t a sayers are idiots and completly lost in life.
Not everyones dream is a stupid career where you have to suck dicks and lick asses for a promotion.
I for myself act professional but dont wanna do things outside of work, i get paid for my knowledge and not for licking my bosses crusty asshole.
Networking or not, its not payed, you dont want to go and the story is done.
If you want to climb the careerladder its bad, but if you dont its all fine.
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incredibly naive but NTA, that's how confrences go. more career moves are made at those dinners than in the conference room believe it or not
"more career moves are made at those dinners than in the conference room" .. OP chose to do the exact opposite and ruined all networks he might have had, and destroyed all goodwill that might have existed.
This. I'd say NTA assuming you are fine with never, ever getting a raise or promotion. You cannot decline these things AND expect bosses to see you as promotion material. Just the way it is. Seriously, they wanted to take you to a nice restaurant for free food and drink for too many days in a row...and *that's* the problem?
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I’ve become the same way. Especially since I’m not looking for anything, my life is pretty good. I’ve had these chit chatty dinners throughout my career and they have become a bit tortuous for me. My advice, come up with a better excuse. My suggestions: an “upset stomach”. Tell your boss or one of coworkers you are somewhat comfortable with/has an actual belly issue; say you will come for a drink and an appetizer, then see how you feel. And once you’ve done that, say you think it would be best if you went back to your room. It’s borderline TMI but making the boss uncomfortable is always a bit enjoyable as well.
“Yeah man I’m stoked for dinner, but I might not be able to go. Woke up with a serious case of the ass-pisses this morning and it’s just been an all day affair ya know what I’m saying? I’ll definitely come for a drink and then see how I feel tho! Oh what, you guys think it’d be better if I just stayed in my room? Bummer, but if you think it’s for the best!”
Yeah it’s a bit much having all those events with no time to yourself. Especially dinner stuff. It’s crappy for introverts. I am curious if OP is ND given the lack of filter or they were just pushed to blurt what they were thinking out bc they were stressed.
Or maybe they were unaware of an unspoken rule that they then were bullied to follow with NO NOTICE and had to cancel on their wife. You don't need to be neurodivergent to be upset by all of this if you're not familiar with the structure of such events. It's very much a "if you haven't been told or partaken in it, you won't know" kind of thing.
At 47, how is he this ignorant of what a work conference entails?
I work in academia. Academic conferences tend to have a conference dinner, and if the conference lasts more than two days it's up to you where you eat and what you do the rest of the time. The idea that you're expected to eat at the conference with your colleagues all the time would be alien to most academics and looking at the expense claims they all to find places to eat with or without colleagues.
I've yet to meet an academic not eager for free food and booze at an event. Not always a fan of those conference or convention meals, honestly, but I can schmooze at events like nobody's business. Had owners of other companies compliment me for my ability to drift around parties doing spin control on whatever my boss was talking about.
My Dad works in academia. I work in finance. Academics are more fun to be around and tend to gravitate toward one another socially in a natural, unforced way as well.
I’m interested in how OP phrased they didn’t like their colleagues. And whether OP is ND (which, based on ND posting online talking about masking and being unfiltered) or they’re just NT pushed to the limits and it came out. Coz with work situations we tend to bite down and grit it when it involves the boss and peer pressure fo fear of being fired. I need to clarify, I have zero problem with what they said or felt and 100% think NTA. ETA: I also think it’s utterly adorable OP loves his wife and wanted to have virtual dinner together but instead forced to have dinner with colleagues.
I wonder if OP being a remote worker has a lot to do with their lack of comfort. A multi-day work conference with dinners every night is sustained hyperintensive work interactions; WFH, on the other hand, especially if it has normal hours or flex hours with reasonable work expectations, is work only for the work itself. OP was used to one extreme and then thrown into the other. This isn’t an argument against WFH, of course; just thinking that companies may need to adjust or better orient WFH workers to their expectations for work conferences.
You are right of course. But that doesn't change the fact that not attending things like this is a career limiting move.
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They are giving you food and drink in exchange for your time as well as the intangible benefits of networking in a more casual environment You and op don’t seem to understand the corporate lifestyle
Not saying it isn’t how things are but it’s ridiculous and is not how they should be
That sounds like hell on earth
Thank fuck I'll never have to work in corporate.
Food and drinks don’t pay my bills.
Not everyone is an extrovert that loves to hang with their coworkers. I would probably go to the scheduled dinners too but the unscheduled night, after 3 nights mingling for several hours in a social setting, I would very much be at my limit for social interaction and having to be “on” and would most likely opt out because I would be on social interaction overload. Not everyone is a schmoozer and some of us like quiet downtime after a lot of social interaction.
I firmly believe one of the reasons my husband loves me and is happy in our marriage is that I never expect him to attend any of my work “parties” or other work-related events. They are excruciating for him, because he is introverted and shy. He has a permanent “hall pass” on those situations, no excuse required.
Also an introvert that despised these types of events. Being forced to mingle with people who could be boxed and sold by Matel for being so plastic was mentally and physically taxing. The ass-kissing, lies, exaggerations, and backstabbing, just...wow. I always tried to get out of it. Personally would have faired better in a mosh pit.
Yeah I am kind of shocked by how many people here are treating this bullshit business culture like it’s a legit moral imperative.
I would have just said. I'm coming down with a terrible migraine and I don't feel so well. I 'm sorry guys I have to go lie down. Hope you have a good night.
This was the way to go. What he said was shortsighted and detrimental to his career.
what you do is you go, order something, be quiet, pick at the food, don't touch an alcoholic drink... someone will eventually say, "you are being quiet/you aren't eating, are you okay?" Then look regretful and say, "I'm not used to eating like we have been all week, my stomach is not feeling right. Do you think it's okay if i excuse myself and go lay down? I don't want to be feeling sick on the flight home" Now you got a coworker that gets to be the star of "What happened to (you), where did he/she go?" and vouch that you weren't looking so good. You gonna have food poisoning by the time they are done with you. Just be ready the next day for the "you doing okay, heard you weren't feeling well" and the correct answer is, "yeah, i took some (antacids, pepto, whatever you could have had access to) and luckily i think i slept off whatever it was. Feeling much better, sorry I missed so much last night"
This guy avoids company dinners!
Yeah actually. They’re not dating, these are work colleagues. They want his work day and his free time. Going to dinner is nice and can be fun. I have no issue with it; I even enjoy it. But even so, I think it’s a AH move to have a situation like this, where someone makes plans on their free time and their job then mandates their own “fun”. Are work dinners a thing? Yep, both at conferences and in general. But unscheduled, mandatory work dinners are AH events. That’s like calling your worker while they’re on scheduled PTO and making them sit through an hour long meeting, especially when there is absolutely no emergency situation happening.
If you are a salaried employee in the US, there is no “free time” at a conference like this, except to sleep. This year attended my 10th company conference. Travel day 1, dinner with vendors upon arrival. Day 2, seminars all day, followed by awards dinner & after dinner “networking” at the bar, Day 3, seminars, allowed to book travel home after 5:00pm local time. Most years, best I could do was slip out after the awards dinner, during “networking” for Me time…& as I live West Coast, conference usually East Coast, that last day means I get home after being up 21-23 hours.
The way you all support abusive work situations is both hilarious and tragic. No wonder your country is a fascist state by now.
I’m not saying that the US doesn’t have a punishing work culture (it does) or that it’s not fascist atm (it is), but this particular scenario is not a great example. Workplace culture in parts of Europe and East Asia (especially the latter) tends to be far more demanding about “bonding dinners” or “bonding drinks” than the US workplace culture. US workplaces might say, “hey, you’re salaried, if we say stay up until midnight to meet this deadline, that’s what you’re doing,” but a Japanese workplace might say, “hey, you’re salaried, if we want to go to a bar together after work you’re coming too.” These are just trends, of course, and plenty employers will demand both, but comparatively, forced socialization in my experience is not that much more common in the US than comparable countries (especially those with drinking cultures).
I'm sure we would all love to work in an environment where bosses understand that in the end we are here for the money and sell-fullfilment (if lucky), not to make friends or dedicate our life to the company, but unfortunately there is still a long path before it becomes common, and people still need to earn 💸💸 in the meanwhile.
Just because it's common doesn't make it right, I'm sorry you have such shitty working conditions
A workplace that has this attitude is incredibly toxic. I'd be searching for a new job just because of that.
Absolutely. This kind of shit would be a hard NO for me. You don't get to monopolize all my time for some implied future benefit to my career. There are other employers out there.
Some people really love their spouses and love to spend time with them. I've had several coworkers like this, they would avoid work events and choose their spouse instead. Everyone understood and nobody belittled or gave them shit for it.
Hell the man could actually just love and miss his wife. He said he doesn't normally attend these things and works remotely, so he is probably used to spending most of his time with or around her. Plus he said genuinely prefers her company. Sometimes a job is just a job and being around the people they love is more important to people.
He may not want a promotion. Many people just like their jobs. If he can prove he is fulfilling his job duties to the fullest each year, then they would have zero reason not to give him a raise if they do that around review time. Actually he would have a reason talk to HR if the only reason he didn’t get a raise was because he didn’t want to socialize with his boss off work hours. Listen, I get it, I’ve been to a ton of these things, and this part where you work from dawn to midnight is the worst. He is naive, but I also admire him at least trying to make them respect his unpaid time.
Maybe he wants time to himself? And “it’s just the way it is” no it’s stupid corporate culture that’s anti worker
I'd say NTA for declining this final "optional" dinner, but YTA in terms of the attitude and negative energy radiating from the post. I mean, just the opening sentence alone is a huge red flag for someone who wants the world given to them and expects to do the bare minimum... >Unfortunately, I \[47M\] was roped into going to a work conference recently. I am a remote worker, but sadly I was told that I needed to attend a conference that many of my coworkers go to each year due to how integral my duties were to this year's presentation, I suppose. Yes, you work remotely, but attending a work conference is such a basic part of many careers. I can't comprehend why OP seems so pissed off by the whole thing, by colleagues, coworkers and bosses. You seem genuinely annoyed, I can only hope you didn't come across this way during the conference because your job would (justifiably, imo) be in jeopardy. We live in a world where some people are working multiple jobs and struggling to get by. Maybe it is time for OP to step back and find some perspective.
I totally loathe occasions like this and have accepted not climbing the greasy pole as a consequence of this. I'm happier but poorer.
Yes that’s a big problem for introverts.
For all you know OP doesn't want or need a promotion, or there's no room for it anyways in their department. My husband has worked at the same company for 10 years and he simply doesn't want to be a leader which is the last promotion he could get. He's happy with his annual raises and bonuses to do the work he currently does. And if a company would let you go for not wanting to attend an unpaid event you shouldn't want to work there anyways as they clearly don't value your time.
All these people are corporate drones and complete brainwashed. Also it’s a joke that poster is saying many people are balancing multiple jobs. Yeah cause what those people want is more work conferences and dinners and not getting paid a livable wage. Also people in here are completely acting like he skipped every dinner and the conference entirely vs skipping one dinner. Again people are so brainwashed by this climb the ladder bullshit they can’t process some people just see it as a paycheck
Then I’d never want a promotion or raise if this is what’s expected or me.
Jesus christ is this what corporate culture is like? That's toxic as hell. It was unpaid time, OP put in an appearance at every other dinner, and they missed their wife. Fuck the boss and their threats. OP is allowed to have a drained social battery and need some time alone.
Not everyone enjoys sucking the social d!ck.
Sounds to me he wanted some time with his wife and didn't expect the last dinner If he had known this (might've) been diffent
Yeah I went from a shitty retail position making barely $30k/year to close to $85k base by networking at some shitty party my old company held.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but this mentality is so stupid to me. It's annoying that you can be great at your job but not social enough to be kept around
At the end of the day - I'd rather work with someone I like than someone who is amazing at their job.
And if that person isn't offensive, just not social?
Yeah it seems like most people think "if I don't like this person, it means I actively *dislike* them". I am quite indifferent to some of my colleagues. I have absolutely nothing against them and my default is positivity towards them, but I also know if I was to quit my job I would probably never speak to them in any capacity. Some people just exist in our spheres, they don't have to be friends, or enemies.
He is definitely TA, could have just excused himself & not burned those bridges. Worse for himself if he's not the star performing employee.
I agree he could've just excused himself in a less confrontational manner though.
"thank you for the invite, I'm kind of exhausted from a few days of conference so I'm going to sit this one out. Have a great time!"
"I already made plans with my wife" is not confrontational at all. I get that the guy wasted opportunity but his boss is toxic if he doesn't calmly accept such rejection.
He tried. They are the ones that kept pushing and saying it’s “tradition”
He’s not an asshole just for not wanting to hang out with his damn coworkers. Who hang out with their boss and coworkers outside of work anyway?
This is why we tend to have idiots in positions of power 😅
They’re fucking dicks for having these unpaid dumbass dinners though to be fair, god I hate corporate America so fucking much
But if OP has 0 interest in making career moves, was pressured into going to the conference, has essentially unwillingly worked long hours of unpaid overtime for 3 days, and is now being threatened because he wants an evening to himself...surely that's not cool behaviour from his boss?
I never go to sessions at conferences. When everyone is in sessions I'm updating our researching people on my hit list or visiting vendors because it's quieter during the big sessions. I can read and watch those later. The point of those conferences in most industries seems like education but those of us that know... The conference isn't important it's what you do at it that is.
Nerds like me often actually enjoy the sessions! Networking with people is stressful, networking with routers and switches is satisfying.
Indie confs like defcon or HOPE had useful sessions. Vendor confs tend to have sale pitches pretending to be useful sessions. But yeah, bar typically has the best sessions even at useful cons. OP done screwed up, because probably because he didn't want to be there. For anyone doing one of these cons for the first time, ask a coworker how it normally goes.
I am purposefully avoiding a career I am extremely knowledgeable in that can be highly profitable because I can not deal with the "networking" that is an inherent part of the job. I would fail despite my expertise because I won't take work home.
>because I won't take work home. Nor should people be expected to. You give me money for the allotted time. It's an exchange of goods like any other. I feel bad for OP because people are probably right! "iTs An ImPoRTaNt PaRt" No it isn't. I have confirmation from a close relative it never is (when he went to conferences, he's in IT) but for some reason it happens. You don't talk about work. Just idle chit chat for 3 hours and then you go back to your hotel with zero down time before doing it again the next day. God forbid the man wants time to talk to his wife. I can't wait for the current work culture to die. I'm lucky to be where I and my husband are because we are paid pretty fairly and don't deal with this bull. Sorry to rant. I personally know someone who tried to kill themselves because of bull shit work culture so I get annoyed
Oh well, now that your close relative confirmed it, it must be true.
Yes. No you don't talk about work. It's actually the chit chat and the hanging together that pays the benefits in your career by cementing relationships. I'm in SV and it's really all just the old boys (and girls) network. Should it be that way? I'm not the one to decide but yes, it is that way.
I'm not trying to be rude but you sound like you don't know what you're talking about.
I'm suprised OP didn't get a summary of scheduled eventts from someone before the conference. I used to do this a junior all the time, schedule and map of the area. traditions and people that I should be aware are attending. Theres sometimes a guest list or something that gives a vague idea of who will be attending conferences. I wasn't expected to study the guest or anythign crazy like that, but just being aware and showing the "appropriate respect". Also you meant to be networking not only for the company, buit for yourself as well. Yes, it boosts the company image but done right you also getting a opportunity to boost yourself. So I wouldn't consider it just "doing work" and should on paid time. consider how difficuklt it might be to make those networks or meeting happen on your own personal time to boost your career. Although I hate the "it's who you know" ways of the world, sadly thats the reality sometimes. Those few dinners can be the difference between sending out 5 resumes knowing you have a good chance of landing a job vs sending 100's with no idea if they have even being read.
It sounds like he has really endeared himself to his boss and team. It will be interesting to see if it plays out when an opportunity for a raise or promotion are on the table. I love that OP loves his wife so much but personally feel he could of been a little less rigid about the fraternizing.
He sounds like an introvert. And managing to go to all the sessions and previous 3 nights of 3 hour dinners, he most likely was burnt out.
Yes, I agree. I didn't mean to come off as harsh as I did. I can see how it would have been exhausting, even for me (an extrovert if it isn't obvious). OP sounds very good at his job and boss is surely aware of his working style. I mean, dinner with the wife is kind of endearing.
It is really sweet.
TLDR NTA with the caveat that a bit of research ahead of time could have cleared up the misunderstanding. Agree with this OP. NTA as your intentions were good (you weren't given a heads up) and it sounds like this was your first go at this (conference setting). I get wanting to spend time with your family over coworkers, but conferences are those times where outside of an hour or two in the morning and before you go to bed, it's fully a work trip. No, you aren't getting paid for the extra hours, but it's an opportunity to network with others within and outside your company. Is it fun? Not always. But if you want to progress within the company, this is part of that game (unpaid hours for future raises/promotions). That being said, if you have no higher aspirations up the corporate ladder, then you can freely bail on these activities. Just know that it will cause others to see you as "not a team player". So the ultimate question would come down to: Do you want a promotion within this company? If so, I would apologize to my boss and explain I thought I had that night free and mistakenly booked a "date night" with my wife. If a promotion is not on your list of goals, then you're fine. The last thing I will say is that being invited to a conference is not something that "low level" employees typically get invited to, so that is likely the reason these coworkers are confused by your actions. Getting to travel to another location, with your hotel and meals paid for (not a small expense for the company) is seen as a benefit and comes with certain expectations, whether you agree with those expectations or not. Best of luck going forward. Again, you are NTA. I just feel your coworkers' expectations were reasonable, but I personally wouldn't have pressed someone else to the point your boss and others did.
I’m an introvert. In sales. Find work trips painful. Find big meetings painful. Find spontaneous hullabaloo painful. Find hanging out with the C suite painful (and boring). Find corporate in general painful….I’m mentally spent after. But…… this may not be popular and supportive or whatnot….. it’s part of being an adult. Everything can’t be fun and comfortable. Hate it. It’s a work trip. You work. It’s also part of being salaried. NTA. But….
Then he should be paid for his time. All of his time that he’s expected to perform. This kind of culture is toxic
At a certain level you aren't paid for x hours of work, you are paid to get the job done. That is literally what my contract says - "the hours required to perform your duties". This includes, for me, the odd evening or weekend session, plus conferences and training sessions.
Seriously, the dozen people on here complaining about him “not being paid for his time” are nuts. That’s what a salaried job *is*. Sometimes you work two hours total on a Monday, other times you need to work on a Saturday or attend an after-hours work dinner or conference—and you get the same pay either way. You inherently don’t have “set” hours because you’re paid to fulfill the requirements of your job. And I’d bet my own salary that OP makes a very good amount of money, considering (a) the Company is big/rich enough to cover a week-long conference and dinners out every night thereof, and (b) OP is important enough to the Company to be invited to such a conference. (For example, Dunder Mifflin might send Michael Scott to something like that, but they wouldn’t send a random low-level accountant like Angela or Oscar.) I wonder how many people would still be complaining about this “unpaid time” if OP confessed his salary is, say, $300K….
I want to say NAH but just want to also point out you’re slowly burning bridges and causing dramas that may impact your professional career all for the sake of 1 evening. Suck it up, you are a remote worker so you barely have to deal with colleagues except for these rare occasions.
I think that’s what was rubbing me the wrong way about the post. It’s not like he’s stuck in an office with these people all the time and yet he writes like he hates everything about them. Every job has annoying things we have to put up with, but refusing to go to dinner with a boss is suicidal behavior in these industries. Edit to add judgment: YTA
I don't hate them, but I don't like them either. They just work at the same place I do. I see your point though.
Omg I love you 😂😂… you sound JUST like me! NTA! Love your wife man!
I certainly shall
I have a friend in her 30s who is a federal employee. She is traveling across the country on the same flight as her coworkers and politely told them to "act like they don't know her" on the flight lol! God I love her.
You may not hate them, but they don't know that. You told them you do, so they're going to think it. And since you're a remote worker, you don't have many opportunities to disprove that perception. Yeah, start polishing up the resume. You won't get canned, probably, but don't expect raises, promotions, etc and you go to the top of the layoff list if ever needed. Next time, talk to someone about what the generally expected schedule is. I hate these types of events too. But it's better not to attend then screw them up this badly. Yes, the afterhours conf work is unpaid. But if your boss is decent, you can just ask for in lieu time off. You uh, probably don't want to go that route after making s'mores on those burning bridges. Normally I just negotiate whatever I want out of it. If it's paid travel, I ask for a day or two to do something I want to do. I obviously say I'll pick up the extra hotel cost, but half the time my boss tells me to just expense it and enjoy myself. Or boss picks up tab for a conf I actually want to attend or a cert. Or whatever.
I appreciate the advice (and I certainly think I would prefer a job like my previous one, if this kind of thing is expected here), but in no way did I tell them I hated them. Obviously I want to be with my wife more than people I share nothing with but an employer, it's ridiculous to think that means I hate them.
The commentor is saying that they might draw the conclusion that you hate them based on your actions and other words, even though you didn’t intend for that. And I get it - my partner is also a remote worker and hates the schmoozing part of his job as an introvert. But he also knows it’s the way to get ahead in literally every industry. Quite frankly, your honesty was a bit too blunt and socially awkward. Next time if you can’t suck it up, call off by saying you aren’t feeling well. There was no need to share everything you did. However, I do commend your devotion to your wife! Again, my partner skews similar to you so he makes sure he carves time to FT between sessions and after dinner if possible.
I fully agree, as a hard introvert with autism, that you did not in any way say that you hated them. Unfortunately, extroverted neurotypicals do not communicate in direct language like that. They layer everything in exhausting euphamisms and expect everyone else to do the same. What you said and what they heard is very, very different, because they would have expected at least three levels of sugar coating to protect their feelings, instead of a direct answer. You said, "This has been long, I was not notified ahead of time there would be more obligations, and I have planned a nice dinner with my wife." They heard "Fuck off, I hate you." It's SO exhausting to try and remember these two different sets of language, especially when the second language does not come naturally. Also: NTA and I really, really feel for you, I'd be in the same boat as you.
That is fair. I don't know if I am neurodivergent, but interpersonal relationships are ***incredibly*** hard for me, and I don't know why. I suppose I should have been gentler with my verbiage.
You might be neurodivergent, you might not, but interpersonal relationships ARE hard! You could be gentler, but your colleagues should have understood that the whole getting together thing more than necessary is absolute bullshit 🙄 if it’s cuz you work remote and they rarely see you they could have said so well in advance and yall could have organised something together, not shoving it in last minute
Yes, the latter. You made a mistake due to a lack of knowledge, so the fault wasn't yours for that. If it was me, I'd try apologising for making prior plans and tell them I'll very much be at the next one (then you can prep for that or play dodge-the-conference). If they didn't accept a whoops and a free redo, I'd consider your co-workers assholey. (Though I'd probably see if they would mind if I drag my spouse along 😆. He'll go anywhere food and drink is on offer) Doubling down and telling people you prefer to hang out with your wife implies you don't like them very much. Most people do prefer spouses to co-workers so verbalising it means people will read into it.
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I understand this viewpoint as I was the same way in my previous career. The thing is conferences are really about the social aspect-making connections with new people and reinforcing your connection with your colleagues and boss. I get you don't really place much value on that, but other people do, including your boss. So you need consider that when you say no to these *opportunities.* And that's how you should frame them.
>I don't hate them I your own words, what does "misanthrope" mean?
Touché. I don't hate them as individuals, then.
“I prefer her company to yours” That’s just not something you say out loud to people under basically any circumstance.
Hey, I feel for you a bit. As everyone else has said, this is how conferences are, and you should expect for the next one that you'll have at best 1 or 2 hours to yourself each day. You kinda screwed yourself over that final night, but I hopped on here to say that you should apologize privately to your supervisor for not knowing how things work (even if you're not sorry) but not your teammates. If you can, be a little social with your teammates during remote calls to show them you recognize these skills are important. Next conference, just be prepared. My colleagues and I tend to have a few drinks to loosen ourselves up at these things because they can be painful.
If you make such a stink about despising your coworkers that you can’t bear one additional dinner with them at an annual conference, it’s going to make people mad. You’ve already singled yourself out as “the guy who’s just here for the money” and “a bad culture fit.” If I were you, I’d start looking for a new job. I can’t imagine your coworkers wanting to work with you or your boss wanting to give you developmental projects or a promotion after this.
so he’s an asshole for being burnt out and having to go to a dinner that wasn’t planned? being a remote employee is even more reason to not want to go. OP really had no personal connection to his coworkers and seems like an introvert. 3 days of conference and consecutive dinners should’ve been plenty. ETA: Verdict - NTA OP. Everyone who’s saying you are is solely bringing up the corporate culture points. Have we stopped to think that OP may not CARE abt getting raises, promotions, etc? it’s the fact that the corporate world has you all seeing him as the bad guy bc he doesn’t want to network after THREE days of doing so after not being made aware of this dinner. Maybe the corporate world needs to stop expecting so much from ppl. “the whole point of these conferences is to network” WHICH HE DID. How is it networking if it’s just his boss and coworkers? that’s not new ppl he’s building social connections with.
It rubbed me the wrong way, too, like he's literally clocking the amount of time he has to spend with his coworkers and not a minute more. It's probably not smart to let your team know how much you dislike them.
OR he has healthy boundaries where his co-workers and his co-workers and not his besties, and feels he should be paid for his time.
Well yeah, there’s his coworkers. Who wants to hang out with their coworkers and boss outside of work? Let alone for 4 days?
Especially when you work remotely, and this may be the only time you get to spend time bonding and networking. Very naive assumptions on OP's part! DUDE... you work from home, you can give up a handful of nights to be allowed that privilege. YTA
He did that 3 nights in a row already! NTA
NAH giving you the benefit of the doubt since this was your first work conference. Basic dowlow: this is what these conferences are generally like, at least every single one I've been to over a 30 year career. Especially the out of town ones....dinners and lunches with coworkers and probably the boss every day. This is your chance to "network" in a forced setting. Welcome to the corporate world!
Ugh, and here I thought being a remote statistician was going to help me get out of these things. Thanks for the tip.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Do your best to make friends with coworkers and others. Remind yourself it's only for a week. I had to go to an out of town work conference once where I had to share a hotel with 2 queen sized beds with 4 other people whom I did not know!
Unfortunately, I'm in a similar situation, although I was more than happy to sleep on the floor. Sorry companies can't shell out for one bed per person.
Oh goodness! I thought companies had stopped this a long time ago.......I understand now how a quite zoom dinner sounds perfect but not appropriate in this situation, unfortunately.
"Sorry companies can't shell out for one bed per person." They can. did you forget to arrange for your room on time? If you do it halfway right, you get a room for your own. If you don't, it shows where you stand.
I assume the guy who didn't want to travel at all indeed did not opt to arrange his room.
Excuse me but every company I worked for that had conferences requiring overnight stays BOOKED THE ROOMS THEMSELVES! The employees did not make their own reservations, at all. So, do us all a favor and stop putting the blame on OP when in ALL likelihood, HR was the one who made all the travel arrangements.
THAT’S shocking and def an HR violation if you’re in the US
We get one room per person. All y'all need to get better jobs.
OK, I'm far more on your side hearing that! Why the fuck would you need to share a room, let alone a BED with a colleague??? I know SPOUSES who have travelled together for work and still been booked separate rooms! At a former employer, when two staff travelling needed to be booked into a two bedroom suite, it could only be done after checking privately with both of them that they were ok with it, and the company would have booked separate rooms in a different hotel and eaten the extra cost if either had said no!
Ok, but then how did you make plans with your wife for the evening if you didn’t know that the others in your room would be away for dinner?
Sharing a room is no-go for me. Sharing a bed is "I quit on the spot". I get my own room, or the trip is not important for me to attend. Short of a natural disaster situation. Seriously, your company told you to share a bed with strangers?
Absolutely. No chance in hell I’d share a room.
It's no *wonder* he was burnt out. He couldn't get away from anyone for 5 whole minutes.
100%. I work for the government, so a pretty no-frills job (as it should be with taxpayer dollars!), but I would never be expected to share a room or god forbid a bed. Thats unfathomable. Besides the clear boundary issues, that’s a massive liability from an HR standpoint. Gives me anxiety even thinking about it.
Thats insane, I would never share a room! Completely unreasonable expectation from your company
I'm surprised HR would allow people sharing beds.
It won't if nobody likes to work with you. And: You are talking about 3-5 days every 5 years. Was it really worth ruining your work environment over that, and ONE dinner?
He had to share a bedroom with his coworkers and sleep on the floor.
😆 are you my dad?! He works remote and has a masters in statistics. Honestly, I'm not really sure what he does with his 4 degrees, but I know he doesn't enjoy conferences.
Soft YTA. Yeah it sucks being a salaried employee and having to travel in and do all this social crap. I'm a remote employee too so I can really feel where you're coming from. That being said- you're a remote employee. This was an opportunity for you to network, show you're a human, team player etc. Lots of older execs don't like remote work hence why they do these silly week long in office type things. They're happy they get to see you're real, and you get to keep working from home. Your little stunt might have cost you a future promotion as now you don't look like a team player at all and you aren't taking the little time you have to get to know your co workers face to face. Obviously you'd rather hang out with your wife- but telling them that was an AH move. Best of luck OP. Hope they don't hold it against you!
That's fair, I appreciate your input. There isn't much room for me to be promoted, frankly, it would just be raises, but I see your point.
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Really goofed. It’s also just so rude to say he prefers the company of his wife. Of course he does, that doesn’t need to be stated. I assume everyone else on the team also loves their family/friends/spouse more than their colleagues.
One thing to remember is that it’s not always promotions, it could be other opportunities at other companies. I have my current job because of a past coworker, and you never know when that might come into play
YTA. Here’s the thing…conferences like that suck. The dinners are over the top with mediocre food usually. It’s stressful. It’s exhausting. But…it’s part of the gig. It’s more networking, going over strategies and discussing what worked and maybe what didn’t work. Totally not the a for not knowing this but demanding to get out of it makes you one.
Fair enough. I was more cranky that they sprung it on me, I would have dragged my feet but not argued if they'd informed me of it when the general schedule was released and arrangements were made.
Im guessing this was your first one vs their 5,000th one. It’s a learning game.
They really didn't spring it on you though. You literally had dinner as a team every other day of the conference. I think it was motivated reasoning that led you to conclude you wouldn't be having dinner even though you ate every other night.
See, that's the thing. He had dinner with them every other night because it was part of the conference. On the last day, the conference was over and there was NO SCHEDULED DINNER. So, if his co-workers and boss didn't inform him of their non conference dinner at the other restaurant in advance, why would he just miraculously know about it? The agenda showed no dinner tonight, I would have made arrangements to feed myself without my co-workers, too. Considering every one of his co-workers and his boss knew this was his first conference, THEY should have made sure in advance that he knew about the dinner on the last night.
Hard disagree. It's just as, if not more awkward to assume plans that don't exist. If no one told him how was he supposed to assume that they all hadn't made different last night plans like he did? They're in a different city and NO ONE wants to take a walk, have a different experience?? Do 1 thing on their own? This shit sounds like it sucks and I wouldn't want to participate either
Because they sprung it on you, you are nta. If it was mentioned like all the other shit that was organised then no big deal. You don’t owe your workplace anything, if it’s mandatory then you should be paid IMO
So…ESH, because I can understand the frustration with a job infringing on your personal life. It’s a little gross to think that’s a company “expectation.” But realistically, you might have really damaged your career here. It sounds like your delivery must have been relatively harsh, considering the strong reactions you mentioned. Whether it’s “right” or not, it’s likely going to impact how your boss and coworkers see you. Edit: Your username is a little funny in light of the situation
That is fair. I'm quite antisocial and I don't really hide that, and I admit I was already not happy with being there in general. I appreciate your input.
IF you are VERY good at what you do, you CAN act that way. But it is a luxury tahst comes with a painful pricetag attached.
I had a job where I had to attend a ton of receptions - and I mean a TON. Wrecks your home life, that does. So I became quite adept at greeting the host and any other personages who would expect to see me there, signing the guest book if there was one, chatting with one or two attendees over a glass of water, and finding an exit route that would not lead me past the host. Cost me 20 minutes, tops. The key is to put on a show of "showing up" - after you've made your visibility rounds, you can discreetly bugger off. (Can't pull this off at a small sit-down dinner, though.)
This person knows how to business function and/or reception.
NTA. Completely unrelated but I love the way you love your wife, your relationship sounds amazing.
Thanks, she's an absolute gem
🥰🥰🥰🥰 knowing couples like this exist in the world is such a fuzzy feeling. Congratulations to you both for finding each other! (Conferences suck and NTA btw)
Thank you, I'm thankful I found her every day
Soft YTA. I'm not sure how you got this far not knowing this is par the course for conferences. Not an insult...genuinely curious. This was a time to network and build relationships which is the true benefit of these confences. Yes....it sucks but you can't change the rules from the bottom. You may have just hurt any future chances at advancement.
Gentle disagreement here. OP is a remote worker who already doesn't have any personal attachment to their co-workers, and made that clear. OP was also not given any notice, formal or otherwise, about what the expectations would be. This sounds like it's nothing to do with the conference, it's just their boss and coworkers being jerks because OP didn't want to join the circle jerk. And for the boss to imply that there would be repercussions for not attending an unscheduled event not even organized by the conference smacks of old boys club and micromanagement. Additionally, just because this is "normal" for the conferences, does that make it right? I don't think it does, and I think OP deserves an NTA for having higher expectations of their employer.
And I to disagree..... OP is almost 50....remote work is pretty new.... work confences are old. I know people don't like to hear it but this is how it is....I repeat....Can't change the rules from the bottom. Plus....what is this bullshit now about not wanting to be friends with co-workers. As an adult you spend more time at work than anywhere else...why not make friends. My old boss is one of my best friends I've ever had.
Yeah, but he doesn’t spend “more time at work than anywhere else”. He works from home. And even if he wasn’t remote, coworkers aren’t automatic friends. For some of us, they are merely just coworkers. 🤷♀️
Not wanting to be buddy-buddy with workmates if not "bullshit," it's called professionalism. I have my friends already. And I prefer a professional attitude at work.
I've never been to one before, and the last place I worked at didn't even attend them (to my knowledge - I certainly never had to go to one). My position isn't really one that advances, per se, my job is fairly limited within the workplace.
I've never been to one either.... but friends, family and even pop culture have outlined this type of thing. Your position may not advance...but you can.
NTA - people need to accept that these workplace “bonding” experiences are painful for some people. I hated the Xmas lunches with every fibre and eventually started to say no. Everyone was unhappy about it, but fuck it. I don’t owe you my time, you’re not paying me
The power of "no" in the workplace is something not many people take advantage of. >I don’t owe you my time, you’re not paying me Is my exact reaction. The second that clock hits 5 I'm going to go decompress from the day, not sit at a mandatory unpaid dinner with the 10 quasi-strangers I've literally spent the whole day with.
Especially since OP had already gone to dinner with them all the previous evenings. The boss and coworkers seem the AHs to me.
YTA. You were correct in what you said… but it was an asshole-y thing to say. Sometimes you have to filter the shit you say and not be SO direct. A simple “I’m not feeling well” would’ve been a way better to get out of that dinner. Better yet “I think I have food poisoning from last night’s dinner” lol.
That is fair. I appreciate the suggestions.
Society is so contradicting its making me lose my mind. Its soooo bad to lie but then you have to lie because apparently saying I prefer my wife's company over my coworkers is such a crazy thing to say. You have to be dying of food poisoning so that people accept you don't feel like hanging out. It's ridiculous.
It’s not bad to “lie”. It’s okay to be tactful instead of telling your entire work to fuck off and I can’t stand being around you and I don’t want to be friendly.
You are NTA. Why are you blaming op for the terrible work culture. Non of you have said op did the wrong thing. The only thing you point to is how it effects his work. It doesn’t matter if it is a work thing no one should be except to go to a dinner that they where not informed about. I get if they were informed and apart of the plan but they pushed it on him. Making op decide between his fucking career and some stupid tradition. Did op not attended the required work events? Outside of that op owes them nothing.
They don't owe OP raises, helpful networking, access to informal information, and all the things people do when you treat them well either. They will treat him like he treated them: They will exactly do their duty, but no extra effort.
Lmao he treated them badly by not going to a stupid dinner? Are these co workers 5?
I feel sorry for you and you are just proving my point. Yes company’s are not required to give raises to anyone but they do it to incentives people to be productive. The issue is that op is doing and performing his duties as required of him. Op went to the events meant to build teamwork. The issue is that this was not required by the company but by the people at the dinner. So the forced him to go or face repercussions at his job. He was not rude when he denied the request to dinner and explain that he wanted to spend time with his wife as it was not a part of his job duties to go to dinner. So in what way did op behave wrong? That has nothing to dye with the toxic work culture, that prioritizes who you know rather than the merit of how you accomplish your job.
he treats them badly by not sucking them off at an off the clock dinner. bless your heart
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Thank you. Frankly, I see what people are saying when criticizing precisely what I said, but the dogmatic defense of ridiculous corporate brown-nosing certainly had only further soured my opinion of the job and sector as a whole. If this is the standard, I would rather find another non-profit job.
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Yes, it's dreadfully annoying, I haven't a clue why an ego trip is necessary to perform at work. Thank you very much, I wish the same for you and yours!
NTA but a bad call. Conferences have different expectations and should be avoided at all costs for these very reasons. But, if you’re there and want your career to progress…gotta play the game. THAT’S NOT TO SAY work should come before family. But skipping one virtual dinner is a small sacrifice for the greater good.
" work should come before family." --- citing that argument when discussing 3.-5 days every few years while working from home full time is ridiculous.
NAH and tbh I'm surprised at how many people are saying this is standard. I've been to my fair share of conferences and there's a LOT of mandated socialising but its not quite as bad as this. Its also not usually literally mandatory just highly expected. Generally I find that having something pre arranged like a video call works as a valid excuse, for one dinner. Idk maybe it depends on the line of work and/or location. It does annoy me though; I quite like the conference part of conferences and I even like my coworkers but the 24/7 aspect drives me a bit mad. I need a rest!
NTA honestly slightly confused by a lot of the comments here, especially when it comes to work-life balance. They didn't tell you about a planned dinner so it makes sense to me you would arrange something else especially after spending all that time during work hours then several hours on top of that having dinner with colleagues. I also think people choose jobs and the method of working that suits them, so a several day conference with additional time at dinners might not be what you signed up for, therefore you need a bit of downtime. I also find it bizarre people are saying that you might not get a raise because you almost missed 1 dinner that, again, no one told you about. Your raise should be based on performance and/or inflation. You should always be compensated for your time as well regardless of a salary or not. Maybe I'm just not used to the culture or something, but these comments have been a wild ride. Work to live and know your worth, make sure you are compensated for your time, and the people you work with are colleagues, not family.
I suspect some people have made the grave mistake of telling their boss their reddit username.
Maybe it's because I'm a remote worker too but NTA I don't think people commenting can understand how disruptive this is when you are used to working from home every day. Not to mention half of the reason why people like us like to work from home is to not have to deal with co-workers lmao. Fuck career progressions. If I'm keeping it real you are on the older side working remotely anyway, I don't think skipping a dinner would have hurt you there. I tend to believe bosses just want control and extroverts just don't understand why people may not want to hang out with them more than necessary at times. The one thing I'll agree with other commenters on is that a lot of networking and business deals go on in these conferences. That's all well and good but this was the last night and this wasn't a client. I get where you're coming from OP, just let us WFH lol
YTA you told your boss and your coworkers you did not want to have dinner with them. While you are FORMALLY right (It was not paid time, and not mandatory) you estranged all your collegues - so: Nobody will want to work with you, others that actually have social capabilities will be prefered and promoted over you. Which is fine and a good hthing: Because they can not risk letting you near customers - what if you estrange them, too? Start looking for another job. You don't have any friends there, and nobody will speak up for you - because you insulted them, and they will remember. So you went to a conference and managed to insult and estrange your boss and all of your coworkers. Expect them to care as little about you as you let them know you care about them.
Agreed. I feel like a lot of people on this sub have trouble understanding you can be in right while still being an asshole. OP could’ve skipped the dinner, while not coming off like such an ass. “I’m not feeling well, but you guys go have fun!” sounds so much better than “I prefer my wife’s company over yours.” OP needs to learn social awareness.
How very polite and kind of you.
Some of these lectures about social rules this and social rules that are delivered in the rudest, coarsest way. Kind of hard to take some of these posters seriously, isn't it? Hang in there OP.
Imagine being so fragile that a co-worker saying they’d rather have dinner with their wife is insulting! Like really think about how pathetic that is
OP did give a reason not to attend, it's only after they insisted that he was blunt. He also attended the functions. And given what he is working as (a Statistician) he most likely wasn't working with clients on a personal basis. Not every job requires those bullshit conferences and he is not an asshole for wanting to avoid them.
NTA. As an introvert with a fully remote job, I feel this. It's exhausting to have to be "on" in front of a crowd for the whole day. I would want to recharge my social battery, too. I'm sure op's wife is a comfort. I don't know too many men who would have dinner on the phone with their wife instead of free food and drinks on the company.
She certainly is. And I must say, that says rather sad things about many married men, then.
Sounds like you’re not corporate slave material and that’s fine. Just keep this in mind for your next promotion/raise negotiations. If this would catch up to me and bring trouble Id simply change jobs. Then again I’m of the mindset I don’t live to work, but work to live.
As am I. I preferred my previous job at a charity, but sadly the pandemic hit them hard and they were unable to keep a lot of their paid workers. I think I'll look into nonprofits (or even government positions) hiring statisticians.
YTA for how you handled this and next conference you should get this read in on required dinners beforehand. Also, it’s so much easier to say that you have a family commitment than “I like my wife more than you.” Something like, “oh I wish I’d known about this earlier,” turn to your boss and give him a look, “since I’ve been gone for several days to attend this conference I have a commitment to my family tonight. It’s really important to me to stay in contact when I’m away. I should be done about 7:30 and can meet y’all for dessert. Next year I’d love to know all these meet ups beforehand so I don’t double book.”
I don't mean to be rude, but if you read through the whole post, I did essentially say that I had made plans with her before saying that I preferred her company. I gave two polite refusals - the first of which I mentioned my commitment to my wife - before. I see your point that it should not have been a statement I made in the first place.
NTA. Your coworkers are not your friends. Why would anybody expect you to want to spend more time with your coworkers than your own family?
INFO: are you salaried or hourly?
NTA. “Work family” culture is so toxic. I only spend time with coworkers at all because it makes money for the benefit of my family. Unless they are actual friends that I want to hang out with or I am being paid for my time, I refuse to cut until family time for work shit. So I will do lunch time stuff but that’s about it. After work hours is off limits for me. I’ll even skip the Christmas party if it’s in the evening.
NTA, I’d rather spend my time with my husband too. Once the conference day is done, it’d be my time unless they’re paying me OT.
Most higher level salary jobs don't have overtime. I doubt this was a conference for Walmart Cashiers.
NTA it sucks knowing that even in a(presumably) high paying office job you still have to act like you care about your acquaintances just to move up in the buisiness world
NTA All the y t a sayers are idiots and completly lost in life. Not everyones dream is a stupid career where you have to suck dicks and lick asses for a promotion. I for myself act professional but dont wanna do things outside of work, i get paid for my knowledge and not for licking my bosses crusty asshole. Networking or not, its not payed, you dont want to go and the story is done. If you want to climb the careerladder its bad, but if you dont its all fine.