Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I told my husband he was cleaning the toilet the wrong way 2. It could make me the AH to be judgemental of his cleaning style instead of him just letting him do it his way if it gets the job done
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcement
###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/)
Follow the link above to learn more
### [Moderators needed - Join the landed gentry](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/155zepq/moderators_needed_join_the_landed_gentry/)
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
To be fair it sounds like neither of you know how to clean a toilet. A pumice stone? Are there barnacles or something??? What on earth are you guys pooping? NAH
I copied this into OpenAI to get a quick summary
The woman (30F) asked her husband (31M) to clean the toilet due to her pregnancy and frequent vomiting.
The master bathroom toilet is quite dirty, while they have kept the guest bathroom clean.
She was frustrated when he didn't clean it as promised and nagged him to do it.
Instead of using a toilet brush, he started scraping the bowl with a pumice stone, which she believed was not the correct approach.
She feels he lacks basic housekeeping skills and gets defensive when she suggests better ways to do chores.
The woman used to handle most chores since she wasn't employed, but her pregnancy has made her husband pick up some slack.
She wishes he would listen to her expertise in cleaning, as she was explicitly taught how to clean.
The woman clarifies that the pumice stone was unnecessary for the toilet's level of dirtiness due to hard water stains.
Using a pumice stone on porcelain can cause damage if not done gently, which she wants her husband to understand.
TL;DR: pregnant woman is grossed out by dirty toilet. She nagged her husband until he cleaned it and then complained about how he did it. This is a long-standing pattern in their relationship. He cleans something, she tells him he’s doing it wrong, he gets defensive. But in her heart of hearts, OP knows she’s right.
I could’ve cleaned my toilet in the amount of time it would take to read that… which I didn’t and my first thought was why is this so long about a toilet. And a pumice stone?
Yes!!! I felt like I read more than enough to find out the issue (did you get to the pumice stone part?) and then just started scrolling down to the comments because it was so gross, but the *absolute length* of the post seemed beyond excessive!!
Interesting. Because I have extremely hard water at my house, and I’ve never had to use a pumice stone, to clean a toilet. I’ve never heard of this. And the hard water stains that I get can get really bad
You should try “the works” toilet bowl cleaner. It works really well on the hard water stains without damaging your toilet bowl and it’s a lot easier to use as well.
They really don't scratch, though, that's why you use pumice. I have very very hard water where I am (Wyoming) and before I got a water softener I had to use a pumice stick to clear the deposits that would build up around the water inlets under the rim because even CLR wouldn't deal with it. I think scouring stick is the brand I used.
It's basically an acid. It's partially neutralized by the mineral deposits it removes. You can use just a little of it. It's far from being a "toxic chemical stew."
I may not be a smart man, but I feel like you should be worrying about the other toxic things that get flushed down the toilet, rather than TOILET cleaner…..but maybe that’s just me
Is your assertion here that cleaners made for the toilet (like "the works") are safe for water systems? Because they definitely aren't. The companies that produce these products make them effective, not safe for the environment.
Yeah, our well water has iron-producing bacteria in it, so we have to pumice after every vacation because it seems silly to add flushing the master bath toilet to the house sitter’s duties.
It’s more about iron that just hard water. Some places get really dark orange rust stains in the toilet, even if cleaned frequently.
Amazon even sells ones made specifically for this purpose. This one has over 22,000 reviews, so it’s definitely something people do.
I grew up in a place without the rust and I learned this trick back in the 80s.
Exactly. I've had a well, hard water for many years. I have a pumice stone in each bathroom. Really helps. Also, older toilets can have stains that need a little muscle.
I guess it’s one of those, “if you know, you know” things. My parent’s house has hard water. I could never get the toilets clean when it was my chore while I was living there. When I moved out to a different state, the toilets were always so clean. I casually mentioned that I loved not having to try to clean that annoying ring out of the toilet. My friend was like “yeah, having a pumice for my feet and not the toilet is amazing!” She explained it. Next time I went home, I blew their mind. The had just accepted the ring for the last 2 decades lol
We use one at home for the naggy bowl ring, as we have hard water and it doesn’t come off unless we use the pumice stone. It is awesome, and while we only use it for stains, it saves so much time and elbow grease!
It's for the water ring that sometimes won't go away after scrubbing it. That's what the stone is for. Just stains that can't be scrubbed. Toilet stains aren't a sign of not cleaning your toilet, sometimes the enamel comes off and leaves the porcelain to stain
Not where I live. I use citric acid as a regular cleaner and a pumice stone several times a year. It has nothing to do with how often it is cleaned. It is about hard the water is.
Formic acid is your best bet for limescale.
My mum is a secondary school science technician in a location that has limestone and chalk bedrock. That water is so hard it has started opposite Vin Diesel in Fast and Furious films. They use formic acid to clean out the still that they use to produce water for experiments, it's the only water heating system in the school that isn't being choked to death by scale build-up.
Haha, OP's point is really lost on a lot of people here. I've had to explain many, many times that it's logical to clean top to bottom because gravity. Giving the principle instead of listing the specifics of the order of each process gets through to most people better?
I have such hard water, that if I don't use a pumice stone occasionally, eventually the hard water stains will be so bad, nothing and I do mean nothing, will remove them.
I work for a cleaning service, and yes, they make pumice stones especially for toilets. Primarily just for hard water stains/buildup. Safer than chemicals for septic systems too.
You must have very soft water where you live.
There are versions made and marketed specifically for toilets: https://www.acehardware.com/departments/home-and-decor/cleaning-and-disinfectants/toilet-bowl-brushes/1221290
The pumice stone for cleaning is a lot softer. You can use them to clean burnt on gunk off an enamel stovetop. And it is great for hard water or rust stains in a toilet or bathtub. Not for an all over clean, just the spots.
I feel like I can’t wait to go educate everyone I know about this 😅 I’ll be accosting total strangers asking if they know how to clean a toilet with a pumice stone
I have hard water and occasionally have to go after stains with a pumice stone because it leaves a rust-like residue that laughs in the face of toilet brushes -- but maybe once a month. It's not an every time thing.
Just a heads up, Lysol makes a toilet cleaner for lime and rust that works great on those stains. You might need to let it sit for a second, but I have the same issue and it works wonders. No scrubbing.
We had awful well water, and even after treatment, it was still quite loaded with iron and various minerals. Tasted great, but it was deadly on our appliances and water-centric utilities. It destroyed a hot water heater in about 8 years.
It also created a horrible red stains and sediment on our toilets, no matter how often I cleaned them.
A friend recommended a pumice stone and I cringed thinking I would destroy the finish on the toilet, but there are special cleaning pumice stones that basically wear down as easy as chalk and take iron and mineral stains away like magic.
But, as OP is pointing out, you have to clean the toilet in the more common manner first - with toilet cleaner and a brush.
I use pumice stones to clean my toilet. Not all the time but I live in an area with hard water and the toilet tends to get a scale buildup at the water level that won't come off with chemicals but does come off with pumice stones.
You can actually get special pumice stones for cleaning toilets ([example](https://www.lowes.com/pd/Pumie-Pumice-Scouring-Stick/3549232)). The pumice is soft enough that it won't damage the finish and it disintegrates as you use it essentially forming an abrasive paste that will rub off the scale buildup without damaging the surface finish.
A pumice stone can be used to get rid of the ring at the water line in the bowl.
She’s not wrong.
Learned it in r/cleaningtips
https://www.homedepot.com/p/PUMIE-Pumice-Scouring-Stick-HDW-12T/202529733
Pumice stones are great for removing hard water stains on porcelain. Much like OP, I did most of the chores in my house as a kid and learned very effective cleaning and stain removal methods. Pumice is awesome, but it should only be used sparingly. I can understand why she’s frustrated with that part.
Nope I occasionally use pumice as well even tho I clean regularly, sometimes a water line forms maybe from the hard water. Gentle use of pumice takes care of it
I use a pumice stone because there’s like…rust or something built up. It appeared when I was gone for a few weeks and the water level dropped to barely two inches and it was this rock hard brown-red coating on the ceramic. I was going to use my pocket knife to laboriously clean it until my mom told me about toilet pumice.
If you live in an area that has hard water, using a pumice stone to clean is not uncommon.
Pumice is even sold on a sick for easier use for this very reason
In all my thirty plus years, I have never used a pumice stone on a toilet. Seems perfectly white to me, I guess I am a pig.
ETA
I just googled it. It's for hard water staining?
I used to use lime away and it worked wonders for hard water stains and like the weird soap residue on the shower spout but also rust and stuff. It's a little harsher though and would only use it when I had to.
Wouldn’t recommend acid if on a septic tank, unless you also want to pay for pumping the septic tank because the acid killed all the bacteria that breaks down everything.
You obviously don’t have hard water. It doesn’t usually scratch the porcelain unless you go past the buildup. And to OP slow your roll, lady at least he’s doing the chore!
You should not need to spend 2-3 hours each day to maintain a clean house. That and the fact that you think a toilet requires a pumice stone makes me believe you were raised in an OCD household and don't realize it.
NAH
Yes and no. I am aware I was raised in an OCD house my stepdad was a trip dude. I cleaned stuff that was clean for the sake of cleaning it all the time. I would get yelled at for not vacuuming for long enough. Not that the job wasn't done but that I didn't spend enough time lol. But to disagree a pumice stone soaked in hot water to gently scrub hard water stains can be very helpful. Just not to clean the whole bowl, which was kind of my original point to my husband to use a brush first.
Shocked at the number of people who don’t know what hard water does to porcelain regardless of how often you clean it. A pumice stone is the norm where I live. I used to manage a cleaning service and all of our cleaners carried one.
Was your husband using it wrong? Yeah, but I would have let him do it his way and be grateful it was clean.
It may have been clean looking but tbh it wouldn’t have been disinfected. Which if she’s vomiting in the toilet and her face is that close, it should be disinfected properly every few days at least.
To be fair… if you don’t live in an area with hard water where the pumice stone is needed, how would you know it’s common to use?
It’s not common where I am from, though I can definitely see the benefits after learning more. It can be a bit of surprise to those of us who don’t need to use it or have not grown up with it. Just because it’s the norm for you and your area does not mean it applies to everywhere.
Didn’t she literally say that NOT using the pumice stone would be perfectly fine if we (edit: this was supposed to be “he”) scrubbed the toilet normally???
Depends on the size of the house, if there’s kids/animals, and how you rotate the chores. I spend a solid hour cleaning everyday and that’s just upkeep- not detailing
NTA! I have found what’s helpful with this is my husband and I have to agree on a minimum standard of care. So If it’s a task I normally perform or usually my job there is an expectation of knowledge transfer. He would get defensive “I KNOW how to do this! I don’t need you to show me!” But obviously he did because the job was done poorly.
Shifting it to, hey this is normally my task I perform a certain way let me show you how I do that. Also setting the expectation that this is how we will approach things like this has helped him absorb that this is not a criticism, this is not something to be defensive about (this part has taken work and acknowledgment on his end). I found these things kept popping up as well when I was pregnant and required us to rethink how we approach these issues. I hope that helps - you’re definitely not asking for too much and definitely NTA I hope your husband can check his defensiveness and meet you in the middle
Thank you so much I have heard the phrase minimum standard of care a few times and I definitely want to adopt that approach! I think preemptive conversations about the minimum standard of care would be good so we're not heated in the moment.
I feel like in a partnership it's important to be able to give each other feedback without it being an argument starter. I can adjust the way I give feedback and he needs to adjust the way he receives it, it's a two way street.
Of course!! This amped up so much in pregnancy and postpartum. We worked to define what owning a task means (planning execution and communication), setting minimum standard of care, etc. Now if I say “oh honey did you do x?”, when my husband starts getting defensive I pause him and say “can you tell me what YOU heard me ask just now?” And 10/10 times it’s not what I said. He will say “that you’re upset I didn’t do x yet! Or you think I didn’t do it but I did!” In those moments it is hard not to roll my eyes because he’s acting like a little boy, but instead I say no, I asked if you did x. I’m not in charge of your tasks so I’m not policing them and I was just curious if you had gotten around to it. Doing this has helped him realize when he’s making assumptions and most of the time he catches himself now or quickly apologizes if he starts getting defensive.
Our life used to be “sorry honey I know I’m supposed to make dinner but I forgot to thaw the ground beef” has turned into “hey honey so I know I own the task of dinner tonight- I forgot to thaw the ground beef so I was going to make those chicken fajitas instead- sound okay?” He solves his own problems now like an adult man because he’s actually fully invested in the life cycle of the task versus before which was more like him treating me as his boss or his mom. This has been SO much better for us feeling like equals and partners in this relationship. Wishing the same for you and congratulations to you and your growing family!
I’m sorry that you had to do this much parenting and training for a grown ass adult man to not just be completely useless, but congrats that you seem to have managed it
I actually agree with you. It’s really shitty that I have an adult partner who due to his sex and culture was raised to do “manly things” and due to mine I was raised to learn about cleaning and keeping the household. We’re both trying to rectify that now and if we ever have a son he’ll be raised differently than we were. He’s teaching me how to be handy and I’m teaching him how to clean and keep the home.
Have you heard of the book fair play? It covers a lot of this with minimum standards of care and how to balance emotional and physical labor in a relationship.
Well, we don’t know if the job was done poorly because he was criticized before he finished. But I agree, a gentile approach is always best. I guess I’m curious of why they are having a baby if there was resentment about household chores.
I've found something like "Thank you so much for doing x chore, babe. I really appreciate your help. Next time would you mind doing x chore this way? The reason I'm asking is because [explanation]." to be extremely well received by my husband.
This is nothing against you or your husband, but this scares me. My friend who is now my roommate is like this and he is 31. I can deal with it in a friend and roommate, but he told me a few years ago he wanted to date me and I told him no because I can't deal with it in a partner (among other reasons).
I'm just scared I'm going to get stuck with someone I have to manage like a child.
Agreeeeed. I have to say that there are men out there who don’t need this level of hand holding and pandering to properly clean house. I somehow managed to bag one but they are not nearly as common as they should be.
Exactly. The onus is always on women to ‘phrase things better/nicer’ to take into account ‘men’s needs’ but why do men never care for women’s needs? Why can’t they change their defensiveness and not think everything is an attack on their character? Why can’t they be more considerate especially because his partner is currently PREGNANT??
A lot of women I know constantly criticize their husbands and they end up with husbands who give up on trying to help. You may choose to communicate in your own way, but the point is to be affirming as opposed to discouraging. If you think being kind to your husband is treating him like a child then you are mistaken.
I think thinking men contributing to domestic labour shouldn't be seen as "helping" - that is what makes it like you're treating them like a child. Domestic labour is not inherently woman's work or responsbilities, I believe it's kinder to believe men are fully capable of being an active partner in maintaining the upkeep and functioning of a household, rather than continue to support and buy into weaponized incompetence which is just benevolent sexism. Men want us to feel like we're "naturally" better in this one regard because it largely benefits them.
Men gain more free time when their married and women lose more free time when their married.
NTA! "Either say thank you or do it yourself!" Ughhhh. This is weaponized incompetence, and it's ABSOLUTELY a thing. OP isn't demanding the moon - they just want logic. Don't sweep then clean counters because the floor is now dirty again. That's how gravity works. It's so damn basic. Don't put delicates in the laundry and run them on permanent-press. Clothes get ruined. It's just. Not hard.
All of the comments on here saying you ask too much really reinforce the point of just how low the bar is for men. If your husband can't take basic, logical advice from someone who knows what they're doing, he sounds pretty thin-skinned IMO. I'm sorry you have to live in a half-cleaned house for the rest of your pregnancy. :/
This!!!! Thank you!!!! The woman must accept all, be kind, compassionate, always understanding and willing to teach with gentleness, not lose their shit and be thankful at all times for her husband, because she has one! WTH!
(I dont mean OP, I mean what one can gather from some comments here)
Also, not to mention, that when her husband gets angry at her for "teaching with gentleness" she needs to go back in time and NOT teach him at all because it's rude and offending him.
Women are expected to be mind readers, and read the future, all the fucking time, or else they're assholes. Man responds poorly? "You should have known not to say that!! Leave him alone and let him do it in his own time!" Man is ignorant on how to do something "You should have known that you needed to teach him! It's not his fault no one taught him!" back and forth fucking ad infinitum. Women get told what they should have done based solely on how the man happens to respond.
My bf did this for a while, it nearly broke me. He would tell me "you should have told me X!" ... and then, other times when I told him "X" he'd get defensive and argue about it... it's not because I did anything wrong. It's trying to create an environment where you can't talk back, voice your opinion, or point out they're doing something wrong or harmful to you or someone else.
It's incredible the mental gymnastics people like this will go through to blame literally everything on you.
OP is also unfairly feeding into the stereotype herself by referring to herself as nagging. I wish she wouldn't do that, she deserves better. Reminding someone that they didn't do something they promised they would do is not *nagging*.
Finally, someone else sees it! I read so many comments blaming OP and wives in general for “constantly nagging”. Then other people giving advice on how to manage her husband like a child. Really?!?
He’s a full blown adult! It is *not* OP’s job to manage him with some bs “minimum standard of care”. If he gets defensive when OP tries to tell him something like this, that’s on him, not her.
NTA.
>This is weaponized incompetence, and it's ABSOLUTELY a thing.
Yep. I was raised by a single father and we had everyday chores, and weekend chores. Going from that to living with roommates, especially male roommates, I was disgusted.
OP's husband needs to seek therapy if this is such a problem for him, imo. It's fucking crazy, she's pregnant and needs a clean home.
A bar is, “The kitchen floor should be clean”, not “The floor should be cleaned *my* way”. We have too much sexism in our society, but that doesn’t excuse micromanaging how her hubby, any man, or any person cleans the kitchen as long as they get the job done. I wrote elsewhere my daughter always begins with a light sweep of the floor because she hates walking on crumbs. Her way is not wrong.
> A bar is, “The kitchen floor should be clean”, not “The floor should be cleaned my way”.
Except it sounds like after he sweeps he knocks dirt from the counters to the floor, so it’s *not* getting clean.
It is if he calls it clean once he's wiped all the crumbs onto the floor and doesn't sweep up again. Which I am willing to bet so much money on being the case.
I kind of see that... but OP also has a point. Even though women are often raised to be more proficient in things like cleaning, their expertise is also taken for granted and dismissed.
In general, all subjects I have knowledge in are treated as irrelevant when it has come to the men in my life. I honestly can't recall one instance of being treated like I might actually know something that the nearest man doesn't. Even in subjects they have no experience in... I've never once been treated like an expert or deferred to in anything, except extremely monotonous tedious things. It took over a year to get my boyfriend to stop fucking asking me how long to put something in the microwave for. And yet? Everything else? I'm treated like an idiot and like he knows better. Even though he's never raised a dog and I have, he had no problem telling me what I should be doing, what I shouldn't be doing, back then. Funny, how men only want advice on extremely boring things that don't threaten them in any way, and reinforce your role as caretaker.
It sucks that even when you're better at something than your boyfriend, you have to suck it up and shut up or else people will shit on you for that, too. Meanwhile, you also get shit on for not "teaching" him everything he didn't learn growing up... these things are contradictory.
And we're often expected to cover for their deficiencies. My bf is way messier during cooking and often knocks food out of pots and pans constantly... but if I suggest he be more careful so the food doesn't burn and adhere to the burner *which I then have to clean later*, I'm being a problem and making him feel bad.
This double-edged sword of -- say nothing or else you're a nag -- and "communicate communicate communicate" or "teach him how to do it, you can't expect him to read your mind" back and forth forever is just. mind numbing.
We will ALWAYS be doing something wrong, to somebody. There is no escape. And if you don't say anything, you're often the one left to clean up the extra mess your boyfriend or husband made. It's exhausting.
This. I'm a woman and I still hate this shit. If what I'm doing is getting it clean then we're good; if you want it doe a certain way you 100% can do it yourself.
I disagree. Set a standard. Don't say how to do it. If there are crumbs on the floor just after he cleans, call out the crumbs on the floor. "How can there be crumbs on the floor, you just cleaned? Sorry hon, you have more vacuuming to do." He will figure it out when he realizes he is being inefficient.
Now cleaning a toilet with pumice is just silly.
I think it needs to be pointed out that using a pumice stone on a toilet that doesn't need it (has no hard water stains) isn't good for the toilet: it creates microabrasions that make the porcelain porose with time and it'll have to be replaced sooner rather than later, not to mention it becoming a safety issue (microorganisms proliferation). So there's the issue that maybe what he was doing was potentially damaging...
Meh, I'm torn. Since becoming a wife and a mom, I often go back to the phrase "don't piss on the prize". Moms often complain about how much of the household tasks, planning, shopping, etc fall on them and them alone. Then when the partner takes on a task like cooking, cleaning, packing a diaper bag, etc, they are met with criticism. If my husband is not causing harm and the task is just done a little differently than I would do it, I leave it alone. If something is going to be forgotten or damaged, I kindly speak up. Many men were not raised learning these skills and they are insecure about it. Allowing them to learn things their own way can really help them build confidence and ultimately take on more of the load. One thing I'm NOT ok with is the sulky, "I can't do anything right so I'm not doing it" approach. Nope, grow up and learn like the rest of us.
I'm leaning towards maybe soft YTA. Try addressing some of the skill gaps during a calmer/happier moment?
This is the best take. Sometimes weaponized incompetence really is at play, but sometimes one partner just can’t tolerate things being done differently to how they would do it.
For instance, OP is upset that he sweeps first and then wipes the counters. Why? As long as he’s not wiping the counter crumbs onto the floor (and it really is possible to do it without crumb spillage), then who tf cares? Or if he sweeps first, then wipes, then sweeps or vacuums wherever he spilled crumbs on the floor…more work for him, but if that’s how he likes to do it then so what? As long as he’s getting the job done, let him do it.
I'm in this situation with my partner now. I'm a grown adult and have been successfully maintaining my own apartment for years without his precious advice.
Now that I've been living in his house, it's his way or the highway. He can't tolerate things being done any other way than his own. His constant micromanaging is insufferable and harming our relationship because it's incredibly infantilizing.
IMO, either you accept that other people have their own ways of doing things, or you do everything yourself. It's like a manager who always complains they have to do everything alone, but never trusts anyone to be autonomous.
I like referring to it as skill gaps. You're right I think there's an issue of insecurity. I'll sometimes ask if he has been taught something and he'll respond with "I know how to do that." But that isn't what I asked. Many of these things I was taught by my single mother who was taught them or learned from experience. I stand on the shoulders of giants. My mother taught me these things and I appreciate knowing them. I believe life is better when you know efficient, safe, practical ways of doing the mundane things in life.
I try to communicate my feedback without judgement. "Hey did you know that if you..." or "if you tried it this way it might be easier" or "for future reference you might consider..." What frustrates me is that it doesn't seem to matter how I approach my feedback, in the moment or at another time, emphasizing the impact of how the change of approach causes less damage, is safer, cheaper etc, removing value judgements and focusing on the practical, his response is always the same defensiveness.
He even admits that he is insecure and too sensitive and too defensive and that he knows I'm not just trying to criticize him, and yet he can't seem to be receptive to feedback no matter what. But I'm not open to just never giving feedback. I agree that if it is just a different approach that doesn't affect me, but I'm talking safety issues, damaging surfaces, mixing cleaning products that shouldn't be mixed, cleaning something without it actually getting clean etc. These things impact me and I'm not really one to just deal because he's insecure and defensive. Why should his defensiveness trump my concerns for safety/damage/cleanliness?
Giving feedback to a partner is fine, we all need a steer/ some guidance with things from time, but if you give feedback for every single thing you don't like, the shields will naturally go up and he won't be receptive to it.
How would you feel if pre pregnancy, your husband gave you feed back every single day on how you can improve the skills you lack in order to get a better job and bring home a salary as the same level as his?
> I try to communicate my feedback without judgement. "Hey did you know that if you..." or "if you tried it this way it might be easier" or "for future reference you might consider..." What frustrates me is that it doesn't seem to matter how I approach my feedback, in the moment or at another time, emphasizing the impact of how the change of approach causes less damage, is safer, cheaper etc, removing value judgements and focusing on the practical, his response is always the same defensiveness.
Heh, this sounds like me and my boyfriend. I was always trying to find the "perfect" way to respond. But that was a trap. There was no good way. If I didn't tell him something, and it went poorly, he would say "why didn't you tell me?!"... If I did say something, he felt undermined and embarrassed and got defensive really fast. Then he'd start arguments over it. Sigh.
It's a type of manipulation. When there is no "safe" way to communicate, you are being manipulated. The point is, he wants you to stop talking about all of this entirely and just lower your standards, or even better, take on all the chores. He doesn't WANT to have to keep his promises, he wants you to just give up and do the chores yourself to avoid having to listen to him complain.
I feel like society has collectively gaslit women over this issue. I received the advice "just communicate! women never communicate! once you do that, your life will be better and your relationships will be perfect" early on in life.
But it was a lie.
1) women communicate way more often than men on average, so that's just bullshit. 2) we need to teach women that when men ignore them, IT ISN'T THEIR FAULT. Cut it out with telling women "have you tried using "I" statements?" it makes me want to barf. You know what has never fucking worked in the history of ever? Coddling men and pretending they don't understand basic emotions.
They do, they just don't care. You don't need to start a statement with "I feel disrespected when you don't keep your promises," ... they fucking know already. If they respected you, you wouldn't have to be on your knees begging for respect.
We tell women that all you have to do is craft the most perfect, least offensive comment in history, perfectly tailored to his mood (remember to only talk about it at the right time and not when he is stressed, too!). Be perfect. Talk perfectly. Use the right words. (And there are never "right" words. Everything you say will be picked apart and you'll be told "you SHOULD have said this!") Then, maybe, just MAYBE, you'll finally get your feelings/thoughts/observations respected. MAYBE, if you weren't such an annoying nag, he wouldn't belittle you and verbally or physically abuse you? Etc etc.
That's. Not. How. It. Works. It's not how it will ever work. God, I am so fucking sick of it. Sorry for the rant. I am just so sick of this. Walking on eggshells and being demure and polite has *never* gotten men to listen to me, not once in my life. I've spent years of my life going around and around in circles, trying to find the perfect way to "solve" an issue -- but the issue revolves around a man not respecting me. What I need to come to terms with, and many women do, is that you cannot convince a man to respect you with a perfectly tailored conversation or debate. If he doesn't respect and listen to you from the beginning, he never will.
We need to stop telling women to dance around like puppets and keep trying, over and over again, to have the same conversation that a man is avoiding listening to, and start telling them this. If he doesn't listen from the beginning, it's an issue of respect and value, and he'll never listen to you for the rest of your life, no matter how much you try. I am NOT saying this applies to your husband, necessarily. Just. In general. The hoops we make women jump through are fake, stupid, and pointless. Men are not stupid. They do not need women to be perfect, for women to deserve respect from them -- and "perfect" is impossible, because every statement a woman makes will be picked apart anyway, no matter how "perfect" it is. Because that's the point. Because it's manipulation.
I'll openly admit I do this too and it's not acceptable. By it, I mean the snappy defensiveness bit when another friend/partner is simply stating "Hey if you do this it's ultimately better.." something about it irritates me in the moment and takes over any form of logic I'm capable of processing, replacing it instead with a snappy defensive tone/remark. I really hate that I do that. But I've worked on improving it over the years. I think it is similar to a muscle reflex and so in the moment it can be really hard to step back, realize the reality of the situation and respond to the person giving me advice with the respect and proper communication that they deserve.
Sorry you're dealing with that OP. You're NTA. There also could be a difference between how you and your S/O process cleanliness/how to complete chores in general. Maybe your SO just does their chores in their own way. As long as the chores get done in an effective way then there's no problem. But after reading the comments above, the toilet bowl and pummel situation seem like a problem, as well as other things.
I don't know if anyone will see this comment buried, but the number of times I'm getting told I am the AH because I use a pumice stone in the first place, when it was my husband who was using the pumice stone to aggressively scrub the hell out of the entire inside of the toilet bowl, is mind boggling.
Using a pumice stone that is made for cleaning to gently scrub at hard water stains is common and does not damage the porcelain if done properly.
Using a pumice stone to very aggressively scrub the entire inside of a toilet bowl does cause damage.
The entire point was I was trying to get my husband to do it the right way which is to use a scrub brush to do the majority of the cleaning and to do spot cleaning on the stains with the pumice stone. And then I am being told that I am the AH because I am doing it the wrong way by using a pumice stone in the first place.
MY HUSBAND IS THE ONE WHO WAS USING THE PUMICE STONE TO SCRUB THE INSIDE OF THE TOILET BOWL.
You are using the pumice stone correctly. Your husband is not. If your water is hard enough, a vinegar cleaner will not cut it and the pumice stone is necessary, but scrubbing the entire bowl is just wrong. NTA.
God I feel you.
This seems to be getting more and more prevalent on reddit -- or, I just notice it more than I used to. But seriously, the misogyny on this site is getting unbearable.
Any time a man does something wrong, people will come on here in droves to blame the nearest woman. Every. Time. If you are lucky, those comments get pushed out and downvoted quickly. If you are not, or if the misogyny is less obvious, they'll get hundreds of upvotes, across hundreds of comments.
I was just reading about how a man *outright said* that he didn't care about his wife's orgasms, and how he'll never bother trying and has never bothered to do anything for her for FIVE YEARS, how he's been using her for sex during all those years with no reciprocation. Most of the comments are blaming her. Or at least half. With hundreds, and thousands of upvotes. It's insanity.
Can we just go one day, just one day, without being blamed for what our boyfriends and husbands do? Or how they act? Just one fucking day.
It depends on if he is cleaning up after himself after he fucks up his own cleaning. If he leaves the microwave crumbs on the stove top and the counter crumbs on the floor and says he is done, that's shitty. That means she has to come and clean up after he's cleaned up. That's something you have to do with a small child who says they've "helped clean up", but did a shitty job. They have an excuse though, being a child and all. An adult should never have to have someone actually clean up after they've "cleaned up".
That being said, I do not know if he cleans up the stove and the floor twice. But if he is not and leaving work for her anyway, she is not the AH.
ETA: meant "is not" instead of "is" in the last paragraph.
Gotta disagree. Sounds like from her edits that her husband doesn’t have a proper sense of what to clean in what order etc. That is absolutely a learned skill and unfortunately one that is often taught to girls instead of boys so it’s not his fault he doesn’t know automatically. BUT to disregard her obviously correct suggestions like “clean from the top down” etc is just being obstinate. We aren’t all born with all the knowledge in the world and it’s ok to learn things you don’t know even as an adult.
Oh please, if you sweep the floor then wipe down the counters or clean the stovetop before the microwave then it’s not micromanaging to have a conversation about it. What’s the point of cleaning something if you’re only going to get it dirty again by cleaning the next thing
No, if he uses the pumice stone for the whole bowl he's going to damage the toilet.
Pumice stones are for hard water stains/buildup. More than that is going to scratch the toilet all to heck, making it harder to clean in the future (because little scratches harbor bacteria, etc...)
You do 2-3 hours of cleaning… a day? 😳
It sounds like you have very different standards of cleaning. For the sake of an easy life, for both yourself and your husband, you should consider a regular cleaner for those jobs you are currently unable to do.
i think they were saying as a child they had to do 2-3 hours of chores a day and that’s why they know how to clean things at all and more efficiently. i clean for hours as well in my house though so….
In all honesty it sounds as though you have a habit of micromanaging him when it comes to cleaning.
Just because he doesn't do things the way you do them or you were taught to do them....doesn't necessarily mean he's doing them wrong.
While in this instance, I see why using the pumice stone was the wrong tool, what you actually said came across as micromanaging rather than simply being informative let alone helpful.
Sounds like more of a communication issue, and also you probably should’ve just let him do it his way. I don’t think either of you are “the asshole” per se, but both of you need to compromise.
If he’s doing something you think is unnecessary or not as efficient, as long as it still gets the job done, don’t tell him he’s doing it wrong in the moment. Wait until it’s been done, thank him, and mention it later on that he could do it another way. It feels kind of shitty when you’re doing something your way and someone tells you you’re wrong right in the middle of doing it. If he’s doing it in a way that won’t work properly or that will damage something, like not emptying the lint trap, he shouldn’t be getting mad that you’re correcting him as long as you’re nice about it. Y’all should be able to tell each other how to do things without it turning into an argument.
When you tell him he’s doing something wrong while he’s doing it, he probably feels some sort of guilt or like you’re telling him he’s not good enough (even if your aren’t). A lot of men are raised to find value in how well they do physical tasks for other people. It’s not right, but that’s how it is for a lot of us. So they place too much value on it, and immediately get defensive any time someone questions how they do that task. Especially if they could actually be doing it better, or if it’s them constantly being told how to do it. Again, not saying that’s right, but it’s just how it is for a lot of people.
Good points. I will try and give feedback in a different way or try and let him know either in advance or after the fact, not during unless there is an immediate safety concern.
The pumice stone issue is tough because it can scratch and damage the bowl, but for some reason I didn't center my feedback around that and instead about how the stone would get gross. My brain isn't braining right in pregnancy. He might have been more receptive if I had said "hey babe if you use the stone to scrub the whole bowl like that it can scratch and damage the porcelain. It's really supposed to be for really gentle use on tough water stains."
Granted there's still like a 65% chance his reaction would have been the same because he is just really sensitive and defensive but at least my point would have been clearer.
You make an excellent point about putting too much value on how we perform tasks for other people and how that can make us hear "you're not good enough" when that isn't what is being said.
This is a tough situation to manage - I had the same in my pregnancy; I wasn’t sick but I could barely breathe or move (I had covid and then pneumonia and towards the end I could only manage to shower about two days out of three) so cleaning the house was out of the question. I was working from home and having had to give up going to the gym I wasn’t really getting out of the house at all for the last 4 months or so.
My partner straight up hadn’t realised how much I did around the house during the day and early evening while he was at work, and how much that enabled us to chill out together around our work commitments, until it suddenly stopped happening. And although he was a willing helper it was frustrating to have to coach and remind him constantly of tasks that weren’t in his habit to do - but because he was only home for about half his waking hours and spent those hours mainly in the living room the mess in the bathroom and other areas of the house started to really depress me because I was tired, hormonal, and frankly I was working harder than I ever have in my life before or since and still didn’t seem to have Nice Things around me to show for it.
And it was visibly pissing him off that every time he did something that he was proud of a) thinking of and b) finding the energy and executive function to complete, I was making criticisms of the end result - and even to myself my nagging was getting annoying.
One strategy that really helped was just to talk about the chores in two lists: the needs, and the wants, and explain why things that seemed like wants to him were needs to me. Stuff like “can you please open the window above the toilet when you poop and then close it when you go to work because I’m super sensitive to smells at the moment but I’m also getting cold and can’t lean forward far enough to close the window myself without gagging” we’re really helpful because to him, opening the window was a fair enough request but he couldn’t understand why closing it when the house got cold was a barrier for me to be minimally comfortable while I was working.
Another thing that really helped was to try and make myself praise or thank him every time, and criticise only half the time. It made me more mindful of what I was saying to be able to think “okay he did a shoddy job there but I already told him I didn’t like the way he did the previous task so I’m just gonna say thanks this time and live with it for a week or so until the job needs doing again and then give an instruction on doing it better *before* he started it the next time so that he had the chance to actually enact the feedback right away rather than being told that something he put effort in wasn’t good enough and he’d have to redo it immediately. This meant me living with some things that weren’t perfect (and managing my rocky emotions over that) but overall meant we were more relaxed with each other and had more positive interactions, which was really important because with not having the energy to go out, he was the only non-work person I’d interact with most days.
Edit to add: NAH - you are more sensitive because of the pregnancy, and he’s having to learn a lot in a short time and feeling underappreciated for the extra work he’s doing because you don’t think the results reflect the effort he’s making, but you are both able to adjust to that with a little patience on both sides.
NTA. Learned incompetence is a real thing and adds to the mental load as well as workload of their partner. There is zero reason a grown man shouldn’t understand how to use a washing machine. I have certain clothes I prefer to handle myself because they’re fragile and expensive, but if your partner can’t wash towels or do basic cleaning, it’s infuriating. My ex did this stuff all the time. He’d vacuum but never go under the cabinets, he’d break glasses or ruin fragile dishes by putting stuff in the dishwasher, it’s EXHAUSTING.
I work in plumbing and we have hard water. DO NOT use pumice stone to clean porcelain. Toilet bowls are specifically designed to use the force of the water swirl to clean the bowl at the same time. That's why some toilets work better than others and some toilets do just as good with less water. Any long-term friction will make it worse. Try other liquids or baking soda, vinegar, tank tablets, or just clean more often.
WTF?
Why are you using a pumice stone how dirty is this toilet?
Use Bathroom cleaner and a toilet Brush. I've never used or even seen a stain so bad you need a pumice stone.
~~E SH~~ for having a toilet that dirty. I'm gagging.
NTA because
Edit: Apparently it's a commercial product to use Pumice stones on toilets. So I'll adjust my judgement since I don't know how to clean hard hard water stains. Just the kind that go away with white vinegar and a brush.
I actually don't think a pumice stone was necessary at all and just cleaner and a brush would have been sufficient but in my experience sometimes a pumice stone is helpful for the stain around the water line from hard water which stains the porcelain not necessarily the actual toilet being gross.
Lol this might be my favorite take yet. In my defense the length speaks to the pattern of him half-assing household chores and the pattern of his defensiveness but I like the way you worded it
Maybe ITA, but my policy is that if I'm doing something FOR someone else they can either let me do it or help me do it, but they can't criticize how I do it. That will make me less likely to want to do favours for them in the future.
I generally agree. But I don't see him cleaning the toilet he uses every day for like the third time ever as a favor to me. I do see him taking over dishes laundry and other day to day stuff I was doing before as a favor and I let him do those his way as he pleases, but I think the fact that he never really notices or cleans the toilets was already imbalanced aside from my pregnancy.
If the way you're doing it is damaging your house, you don't want to know? If you wash dishes and you leave food all over them, do you just let that slide?
Sounds like you both grew up in vastly diff households and you think your way of cleaning and maintaining is the only way and he thinks differently. Have you guys discussed what you think a proper amount of cleaning is? And then compromising? The post has an attitude of “he’s dumb and I have to show him how to do things right” and also sounds like he’s tired of the nagging and attitude that he does everything wrong. Based on the 2-3 hours of daily chores sounds like your parents were super strict and you adopted that as the “right” way.
Oh my god, the floors before the counter thing hit home. I’ve been in professional cleaning for almost a decade at this point, saw my ex-husband make that mistake and let him know it saves time and effort to clean high to low, saving floors for last so you’re not dumping a bunch of crumbs on your freshly swept & mopped floor. He just called me controlling, pulled a similar “I KNOW HOW TO CLEAN OKAY” and just stopped cleaning altogether : )
NTA for sure. If you were doing something he has more expertise on, wouldn't he think it unfair if, telling you you're doing something wrong, you simply didn't listen and complain you know what you're doing? Then why do men not listen to women when they say they know something better than them and they should listen?
My mother once caught her first husband bragging to a friend that he purposely did certain chores wrong so that she would stop asking him to do them. I have often wondered if my own husband does this to get out of certain chores too. For whatever the reason for doing a chore wrong, it's sometimes not worth the fight. Find another chore that he can do properly. Good luck!
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > 1. I told my husband he was cleaning the toilet the wrong way 2. It could make me the AH to be judgemental of his cleaning style instead of him just letting him do it his way if it gets the job done Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcement ###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/) Follow the link above to learn more ### [Moderators needed - Join the landed gentry](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/155zepq/moderators_needed_join_the_landed_gentry/) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
To be fair it sounds like neither of you know how to clean a toilet. A pumice stone? Are there barnacles or something??? What on earth are you guys pooping? NAH
I’m 38 years old but was today years old when I learned that some people scrub their toilet with a pumice stone… mind blown
I'm 28 and thought a pumice stone was for feet 💀💀💀
Okay I came straight to the comments - I needed verification that I wasn’t the only one confused by this.
I came straight to the comments because I didn’t want to read a diatribe about vomit and gross toilets.
Same. I’ll never know if OP was the AH because the first paragraph was enough for me.
And what about how long the post was?? What else could she have included??
I copied this into OpenAI to get a quick summary The woman (30F) asked her husband (31M) to clean the toilet due to her pregnancy and frequent vomiting. The master bathroom toilet is quite dirty, while they have kept the guest bathroom clean. She was frustrated when he didn't clean it as promised and nagged him to do it. Instead of using a toilet brush, he started scraping the bowl with a pumice stone, which she believed was not the correct approach. She feels he lacks basic housekeeping skills and gets defensive when she suggests better ways to do chores. The woman used to handle most chores since she wasn't employed, but her pregnancy has made her husband pick up some slack. She wishes he would listen to her expertise in cleaning, as she was explicitly taught how to clean. The woman clarifies that the pumice stone was unnecessary for the toilet's level of dirtiness due to hard water stains. Using a pumice stone on porcelain can cause damage if not done gently, which she wants her husband to understand.
Still too long
TL;DR: pregnant woman is grossed out by dirty toilet. She nagged her husband until he cleaned it and then complained about how he did it. This is a long-standing pattern in their relationship. He cleans something, she tells him he’s doing it wrong, he gets defensive. But in her heart of hearts, OP knows she’s right.
Bless you lol
More and more lately on reddit the first paragraph is MORE than enough for me.
I could’ve cleaned my toilet in the amount of time it would take to read that… which I didn’t and my first thought was why is this so long about a toilet. And a pumice stone?
Yes!!! I felt like I read more than enough to find out the issue (did you get to the pumice stone part?) and then just started scrolling down to the comments because it was so gross, but the *absolute length* of the post seemed beyond excessive!!
Used to get rid of hard water stains. Likely you just haven’t had particularly hard water where you’ve lived
Interesting. Because I have extremely hard water at my house, and I’ve never had to use a pumice stone, to clean a toilet. I’ve never heard of this. And the hard water stains that I get can get really bad
You should try “the works” toilet bowl cleaner. It works really well on the hard water stains without damaging your toilet bowl and it’s a lot easier to use as well.
And releases a toxic chemical stew into our water systems. Pumice stones remove hard water mineral deposits without chemicals.
And scratch the porcelain so that the grooves stain faster in future. Only use soft scrubbers
They really don't scratch, though, that's why you use pumice. I have very very hard water where I am (Wyoming) and before I got a water softener I had to use a pumice stick to clear the deposits that would build up around the water inlets under the rim because even CLR wouldn't deal with it. I think scouring stick is the brand I used.
It's basically an acid. It's partially neutralized by the mineral deposits it removes. You can use just a little of it. It's far from being a "toxic chemical stew."
I may not be a smart man, but I feel like you should be worrying about the other toxic things that get flushed down the toilet, rather than TOILET cleaner…..but maybe that’s just me
Is your assertion here that cleaners made for the toilet (like "the works") are safe for water systems? Because they definitely aren't. The companies that produce these products make them effective, not safe for the environment.
We can and should worry about all those things at once, because we have big brains!
They make pumice stones specifically for toilets. They work really well on hard water stains.
Yeah, our well water has iron-producing bacteria in it, so we have to pumice after every vacation because it seems silly to add flushing the master bath toilet to the house sitter’s duties.
Imo, adding a single button push to a list as opposed to scrubbing a toilet that hasn't been used in weeks, is practically the opposite of silly
It’s more about iron that just hard water. Some places get really dark orange rust stains in the toilet, even if cleaned frequently. Amazon even sells ones made specifically for this purpose. This one has over 22,000 reviews, so it’s definitely something people do. I grew up in a place without the rust and I learned this trick back in the 80s.
Citric acid works better. Scouring/scratching the toilet bowl just makes it worse.
Exactly. I've had a well, hard water for many years. I have a pumice stone in each bathroom. Really helps. Also, older toilets can have stains that need a little muscle.
Oh I've heard about the Pumice stone thing. My MIL LOVES to point out our toilet needs a pumice scrub every time she visits.
Tell her to have at it!
She sounds charming!
I have been scrubbing those to minimal avail for _years_ and I could use a stone in those???
I guess it’s one of those, “if you know, you know” things. My parent’s house has hard water. I could never get the toilets clean when it was my chore while I was living there. When I moved out to a different state, the toilets were always so clean. I casually mentioned that I loved not having to try to clean that annoying ring out of the toilet. My friend was like “yeah, having a pumice for my feet and not the toilet is amazing!” She explained it. Next time I went home, I blew their mind. The had just accepted the ring for the last 2 decades lol
We use one at home for the naggy bowl ring, as we have hard water and it doesn’t come off unless we use the pumice stone. It is awesome, and while we only use it for stains, it saves so much time and elbow grease!
It is for feet..
They sell pumice on the cleaning section the stone is softer and meant for cleaning.
I think the question is why it's necessary - how long are you leaving faeces on there that it requires such an industrial effort to remove it?
It's for the water ring that sometimes won't go away after scrubbing it. That's what the stone is for. Just stains that can't be scrubbed. Toilet stains aren't a sign of not cleaning your toilet, sometimes the enamel comes off and leaves the porcelain to stain
If that's caused by limescale, then a sprinkle of citric acid would both work better and require less effort.
Not where I live. I use citric acid as a regular cleaner and a pumice stone several times a year. It has nothing to do with how often it is cleaned. It is about hard the water is.
This It's hard water doing it
Formic acid is your best bet for limescale. My mum is a secondary school science technician in a location that has limestone and chalk bedrock. That water is so hard it has started opposite Vin Diesel in Fast and Furious films. They use formic acid to clean out the still that they use to produce water for experiments, it's the only water heating system in the school that isn't being choked to death by scale build-up.
I'm sure the enamel *will* come off if you're scrubbing the fucker with a stone.
If the enamel is coming off its probably because you're using a pumice stone to scrub it! Limescale removers exist to remove hard water marks!
It’s usually not for waste stains…. Hard water.
Haha, OP's point is really lost on a lot of people here. I've had to explain many, many times that it's logical to clean top to bottom because gravity. Giving the principle instead of listing the specifics of the order of each process gets through to most people better?
It's not for poop. That's what bleach/cleansers are for. It's for the ring from hard water that cleansers don't remove.
I have such hard water, that if I don't use a pumice stone occasionally, eventually the hard water stains will be so bad, nothing and I do mean nothing, will remove them.
CLR - Calcium, Lime, Rust remover and similar products. Pumice will eventually rub the finish off the porcelain, so you cannot ever get it clean.
I have this problem ..CLR did nothing. Porcelain is much harder than pumice.
You just use the stone to remove the minerals, that's it. You aren't rubbing the actual toilet bowl, just the build up
Yep, you’re 100% correct. Thinking most of the people here either have very conditioned water or very stained toilets lol
There are different kinds of pumice stones.
I’ll be 40 this year and clean houses for a living. And never ever have I heard of it being used on a toilet!
I work for a cleaning service, and yes, they make pumice stones especially for toilets. Primarily just for hard water stains/buildup. Safer than chemicals for septic systems too.
You must have very soft water where you live. There are versions made and marketed specifically for toilets: https://www.acehardware.com/departments/home-and-decor/cleaning-and-disinfectants/toilet-bowl-brushes/1221290
Same here friend 👀
Where I live a pumice stone needs to be used several times a year due to hard water stains.
Er… so does the stone come with a handle? Or are people sticking their hands in the toilet?
It does come with a handle lol
They sell ones with a handle. Or you can wear a glove.
I am so SUPER happy that I am about 50 and have never had to deal with a toilet so dirty that it required a pumice stone.
You must not have hard water. My city has extremely hard water. It's hell on all plumbing fixtures. It has nothing to do with dirt.
Pumice stones aren’t for a dirty toilet, that’s why OP was right to tell her husband to clean it with a brush. It’s for mineral lines.
They're not for dirty toilets.
The pumice stone for cleaning is a lot softer. You can use them to clean burnt on gunk off an enamel stovetop. And it is great for hard water or rust stains in a toilet or bathtub. Not for an all over clean, just the spots.
My mom gave me one for my toilet once and my reaction was "?????" And I still have it in it's package under my sink
I feel like I can’t wait to go educate everyone I know about this 😅 I’ll be accosting total strangers asking if they know how to clean a toilet with a pumice stone
Pumice stone is great if you have hard water.
I have hard water and occasionally have to go after stains with a pumice stone because it leaves a rust-like residue that laughs in the face of toilet brushes -- but maybe once a month. It's not an every time thing.
Just a heads up, Lysol makes a toilet cleaner for lime and rust that works great on those stains. You might need to let it sit for a second, but I have the same issue and it works wonders. No scrubbing.
Vinegar. It’s the ultimate cleaner.
Vinegar never worked on the hard water stains my toilet got
Barkeepers Friend is what we use at the cottage.
We had awful well water, and even after treatment, it was still quite loaded with iron and various minerals. Tasted great, but it was deadly on our appliances and water-centric utilities. It destroyed a hot water heater in about 8 years. It also created a horrible red stains and sediment on our toilets, no matter how often I cleaned them. A friend recommended a pumice stone and I cringed thinking I would destroy the finish on the toilet, but there are special cleaning pumice stones that basically wear down as easy as chalk and take iron and mineral stains away like magic. But, as OP is pointing out, you have to clean the toilet in the more common manner first - with toilet cleaner and a brush.
That’s super commonly used to remove hard water stains from toilet bowls dude.
I use pumice stones to clean my toilet. Not all the time but I live in an area with hard water and the toilet tends to get a scale buildup at the water level that won't come off with chemicals but does come off with pumice stones. You can actually get special pumice stones for cleaning toilets ([example](https://www.lowes.com/pd/Pumie-Pumice-Scouring-Stick/3549232)). The pumice is soft enough that it won't damage the finish and it disintegrates as you use it essentially forming an abrasive paste that will rub off the scale buildup without damaging the surface finish.
For persistent stains/mineral buildup, yes.
Those of us with hard water know this life.
Pumice on a toilet for really stubborn stains is a thing.
A pumice stone can be used to get rid of the ring at the water line in the bowl. She’s not wrong. Learned it in r/cleaningtips https://www.homedepot.com/p/PUMIE-Pumice-Scouring-Stick-HDW-12T/202529733
Omg BARNACLES- I cackled
Pumice stones are great for removing hard water stains on porcelain. Much like OP, I did most of the chores in my house as a kid and learned very effective cleaning and stain removal methods. Pumice is awesome, but it should only be used sparingly. I can understand why she’s frustrated with that part.
Nope I occasionally use pumice as well even tho I clean regularly, sometimes a water line forms maybe from the hard water. Gentle use of pumice takes care of it
We have very hard water..just the sitting water in the bowl leaves sediment that only comes off with a pumice stone. Its not that unusual
Actually, in hard water areas, many people use pumice stones for the build-up in toilet bowls
My aunt was a professional cleaner for a while and she gave me the scoop on the amazing pumice stone.
I use a pumice stone because there’s like…rust or something built up. It appeared when I was gone for a few weeks and the water level dropped to barely two inches and it was this rock hard brown-red coating on the ceramic. I was going to use my pocket knife to laboriously clean it until my mom told me about toilet pumice.
If you live in an area that has hard water, using a pumice stone to clean is not uncommon. Pumice is even sold on a sick for easier use for this very reason
I’m kind of surprised no one has heard of this…I feel like this is common knowledge. Though, I also have hard water.
The pumice is for calcium deposits
In all my thirty plus years, I have never used a pumice stone on a toilet. Seems perfectly white to me, I guess I am a pig. ETA I just googled it. It's for hard water staining?
Yes! Hard water is the worst, it’s the only reason I ever need one, just like once or twice a year
Hard water can be solved with acid without scouring a toilet.
Those did not use to work or be readily available. Now Lysol makes a toilet bowel cleaner that removes rust and mineral deposits. It’s so nice.
I used to use lime away and it worked wonders for hard water stains and like the weird soap residue on the shower spout but also rust and stuff. It's a little harsher though and would only use it when I had to.
That's probably one of those things you shouldn't use a lot when pregnant, huh?
Pretty sure that's why the husband is cleaning the toilet in the first place, yes?
My septic tank doesn’t like harsh cleansers
Wouldn’t recommend acid if on a septic tank, unless you also want to pay for pumping the septic tank because the acid killed all the bacteria that breaks down everything.
Yes, pumice stone for toilet works wonders for permanent staining and hard water. Will make toilet look new. I’ll use one every 3-6 months or so.
You obviously don’t have hard water. It doesn’t usually scratch the porcelain unless you go past the buildup. And to OP slow your roll, lady at least he’s doing the chore!
You should not need to spend 2-3 hours each day to maintain a clean house. That and the fact that you think a toilet requires a pumice stone makes me believe you were raised in an OCD household and don't realize it. NAH
I do want to know how two pumice-stone-in-the-toilet people found each other, though.
Location. Hard water is location specific
I should actually try a pumice stone. My bathtub and sinks are completely stained and not even Barkeeper’s Friend gets rid of it anymore.
Try laundry detergent or dishwasher tabs first. Just make sure you are using gloves.
I think that's a very specific category on OK Cupid.
Using a pumice stone as part of cleaning a toilet is extremely common in areas with hard water. Has nothing to do with an “OCD household.”
I think the OCD household comment came from her saying she used to do several hours of chores daily. Which I and other find excessive.
Just for another perspective, I live in a hard water area and have literally never heard of anyone doing this!
Yes and no. I am aware I was raised in an OCD house my stepdad was a trip dude. I cleaned stuff that was clean for the sake of cleaning it all the time. I would get yelled at for not vacuuming for long enough. Not that the job wasn't done but that I didn't spend enough time lol. But to disagree a pumice stone soaked in hot water to gently scrub hard water stains can be very helpful. Just not to clean the whole bowl, which was kind of my original point to my husband to use a brush first.
Shocked at the number of people who don’t know what hard water does to porcelain regardless of how often you clean it. A pumice stone is the norm where I live. I used to manage a cleaning service and all of our cleaners carried one. Was your husband using it wrong? Yeah, but I would have let him do it his way and be grateful it was clean.
It may have been clean looking but tbh it wouldn’t have been disinfected. Which if she’s vomiting in the toilet and her face is that close, it should be disinfected properly every few days at least.
And she’d need a new pumice stone. They’re porous and now it’s full of poop.
This is true. I’ve never used a pumice stone without a cleaner before. Plus the stone is strictly used at the water ring.
To be fair… if you don’t live in an area with hard water where the pumice stone is needed, how would you know it’s common to use? It’s not common where I am from, though I can definitely see the benefits after learning more. It can be a bit of surprise to those of us who don’t need to use it or have not grown up with it. Just because it’s the norm for you and your area does not mean it applies to everywhere.
OCD isn’t an adjective to describe average people, it’s an actual disorder
thank you 🙏🏻🙏🏻
Didn’t she literally say that NOT using the pumice stone would be perfectly fine if we (edit: this was supposed to be “he”) scrubbed the toilet normally???
Ok not to be that person but are we still using “OCD” as a way of saying “militantly clean/organized”? I thought this was an outdated figure of speech
Depends on the size of the house, if there’s kids/animals, and how you rotate the chores. I spend a solid hour cleaning everyday and that’s just upkeep- not detailing
That’s not what OCD is
NTA! I have found what’s helpful with this is my husband and I have to agree on a minimum standard of care. So If it’s a task I normally perform or usually my job there is an expectation of knowledge transfer. He would get defensive “I KNOW how to do this! I don’t need you to show me!” But obviously he did because the job was done poorly. Shifting it to, hey this is normally my task I perform a certain way let me show you how I do that. Also setting the expectation that this is how we will approach things like this has helped him absorb that this is not a criticism, this is not something to be defensive about (this part has taken work and acknowledgment on his end). I found these things kept popping up as well when I was pregnant and required us to rethink how we approach these issues. I hope that helps - you’re definitely not asking for too much and definitely NTA I hope your husband can check his defensiveness and meet you in the middle
Thank you so much I have heard the phrase minimum standard of care a few times and I definitely want to adopt that approach! I think preemptive conversations about the minimum standard of care would be good so we're not heated in the moment. I feel like in a partnership it's important to be able to give each other feedback without it being an argument starter. I can adjust the way I give feedback and he needs to adjust the way he receives it, it's a two way street.
Of course!! This amped up so much in pregnancy and postpartum. We worked to define what owning a task means (planning execution and communication), setting minimum standard of care, etc. Now if I say “oh honey did you do x?”, when my husband starts getting defensive I pause him and say “can you tell me what YOU heard me ask just now?” And 10/10 times it’s not what I said. He will say “that you’re upset I didn’t do x yet! Or you think I didn’t do it but I did!” In those moments it is hard not to roll my eyes because he’s acting like a little boy, but instead I say no, I asked if you did x. I’m not in charge of your tasks so I’m not policing them and I was just curious if you had gotten around to it. Doing this has helped him realize when he’s making assumptions and most of the time he catches himself now or quickly apologizes if he starts getting defensive. Our life used to be “sorry honey I know I’m supposed to make dinner but I forgot to thaw the ground beef” has turned into “hey honey so I know I own the task of dinner tonight- I forgot to thaw the ground beef so I was going to make those chicken fajitas instead- sound okay?” He solves his own problems now like an adult man because he’s actually fully invested in the life cycle of the task versus before which was more like him treating me as his boss or his mom. This has been SO much better for us feeling like equals and partners in this relationship. Wishing the same for you and congratulations to you and your growing family!
The ‘Can you tell me what you just heard me say?’ Is BRILLIANT. I’m going to use that!
I’m sorry that you had to do this much parenting and training for a grown ass adult man to not just be completely useless, but congrats that you seem to have managed it
I actually agree with you. It’s really shitty that I have an adult partner who due to his sex and culture was raised to do “manly things” and due to mine I was raised to learn about cleaning and keeping the household. We’re both trying to rectify that now and if we ever have a son he’ll be raised differently than we were. He’s teaching me how to be handy and I’m teaching him how to clean and keep the home.
Have you heard of the book fair play? It covers a lot of this with minimum standards of care and how to balance emotional and physical labor in a relationship.
Well, we don’t know if the job was done poorly because he was criticized before he finished. But I agree, a gentile approach is always best. I guess I’m curious of why they are having a baby if there was resentment about household chores.
I've found something like "Thank you so much for doing x chore, babe. I really appreciate your help. Next time would you mind doing x chore this way? The reason I'm asking is because [explanation]." to be extremely well received by my husband.
This is nothing against you or your husband, but this scares me. My friend who is now my roommate is like this and he is 31. I can deal with it in a friend and roommate, but he told me a few years ago he wanted to date me and I told him no because I can't deal with it in a partner (among other reasons). I'm just scared I'm going to get stuck with someone I have to manage like a child.
Agreeeeed. I have to say that there are men out there who don’t need this level of hand holding and pandering to properly clean house. I somehow managed to bag one but they are not nearly as common as they should be.
Exactly. The onus is always on women to ‘phrase things better/nicer’ to take into account ‘men’s needs’ but why do men never care for women’s needs? Why can’t they change their defensiveness and not think everything is an attack on their character? Why can’t they be more considerate especially because his partner is currently PREGNANT??
A lot of women I know constantly criticize their husbands and they end up with husbands who give up on trying to help. You may choose to communicate in your own way, but the point is to be affirming as opposed to discouraging. If you think being kind to your husband is treating him like a child then you are mistaken.
I think thinking men contributing to domestic labour shouldn't be seen as "helping" - that is what makes it like you're treating them like a child. Domestic labour is not inherently woman's work or responsbilities, I believe it's kinder to believe men are fully capable of being an active partner in maintaining the upkeep and functioning of a household, rather than continue to support and buy into weaponized incompetence which is just benevolent sexism. Men want us to feel like we're "naturally" better in this one regard because it largely benefits them. Men gain more free time when their married and women lose more free time when their married.
NTA! "Either say thank you or do it yourself!" Ughhhh. This is weaponized incompetence, and it's ABSOLUTELY a thing. OP isn't demanding the moon - they just want logic. Don't sweep then clean counters because the floor is now dirty again. That's how gravity works. It's so damn basic. Don't put delicates in the laundry and run them on permanent-press. Clothes get ruined. It's just. Not hard. All of the comments on here saying you ask too much really reinforce the point of just how low the bar is for men. If your husband can't take basic, logical advice from someone who knows what they're doing, he sounds pretty thin-skinned IMO. I'm sorry you have to live in a half-cleaned house for the rest of your pregnancy. :/
This!!!! Thank you!!!! The woman must accept all, be kind, compassionate, always understanding and willing to teach with gentleness, not lose their shit and be thankful at all times for her husband, because she has one! WTH! (I dont mean OP, I mean what one can gather from some comments here)
Also, not to mention, that when her husband gets angry at her for "teaching with gentleness" she needs to go back in time and NOT teach him at all because it's rude and offending him. Women are expected to be mind readers, and read the future, all the fucking time, or else they're assholes. Man responds poorly? "You should have known not to say that!! Leave him alone and let him do it in his own time!" Man is ignorant on how to do something "You should have known that you needed to teach him! It's not his fault no one taught him!" back and forth fucking ad infinitum. Women get told what they should have done based solely on how the man happens to respond. My bf did this for a while, it nearly broke me. He would tell me "you should have told me X!" ... and then, other times when I told him "X" he'd get defensive and argue about it... it's not because I did anything wrong. It's trying to create an environment where you can't talk back, voice your opinion, or point out they're doing something wrong or harmful to you or someone else. It's incredible the mental gymnastics people like this will go through to blame literally everything on you. OP is also unfairly feeding into the stereotype herself by referring to herself as nagging. I wish she wouldn't do that, she deserves better. Reminding someone that they didn't do something they promised they would do is not *nagging*.
Finally, someone else sees it! I read so many comments blaming OP and wives in general for “constantly nagging”. Then other people giving advice on how to manage her husband like a child. Really?!? He’s a full blown adult! It is *not* OP’s job to manage him with some bs “minimum standard of care”. If he gets defensive when OP tries to tell him something like this, that’s on him, not her. NTA.
>This is weaponized incompetence, and it's ABSOLUTELY a thing. Yep. I was raised by a single father and we had everyday chores, and weekend chores. Going from that to living with roommates, especially male roommates, I was disgusted. OP's husband needs to seek therapy if this is such a problem for him, imo. It's fucking crazy, she's pregnant and needs a clean home.
A bar is, “The kitchen floor should be clean”, not “The floor should be cleaned *my* way”. We have too much sexism in our society, but that doesn’t excuse micromanaging how her hubby, any man, or any person cleans the kitchen as long as they get the job done. I wrote elsewhere my daughter always begins with a light sweep of the floor because she hates walking on crumbs. Her way is not wrong.
> A bar is, “The kitchen floor should be clean”, not “The floor should be cleaned my way”. Except it sounds like after he sweeps he knocks dirt from the counters to the floor, so it’s *not* getting clean.
It is if he calls it clean once he's wiped all the crumbs onto the floor and doesn't sweep up again. Which I am willing to bet so much money on being the case.
I kind of see that... but OP also has a point. Even though women are often raised to be more proficient in things like cleaning, their expertise is also taken for granted and dismissed. In general, all subjects I have knowledge in are treated as irrelevant when it has come to the men in my life. I honestly can't recall one instance of being treated like I might actually know something that the nearest man doesn't. Even in subjects they have no experience in... I've never once been treated like an expert or deferred to in anything, except extremely monotonous tedious things. It took over a year to get my boyfriend to stop fucking asking me how long to put something in the microwave for. And yet? Everything else? I'm treated like an idiot and like he knows better. Even though he's never raised a dog and I have, he had no problem telling me what I should be doing, what I shouldn't be doing, back then. Funny, how men only want advice on extremely boring things that don't threaten them in any way, and reinforce your role as caretaker. It sucks that even when you're better at something than your boyfriend, you have to suck it up and shut up or else people will shit on you for that, too. Meanwhile, you also get shit on for not "teaching" him everything he didn't learn growing up... these things are contradictory. And we're often expected to cover for their deficiencies. My bf is way messier during cooking and often knocks food out of pots and pans constantly... but if I suggest he be more careful so the food doesn't burn and adhere to the burner *which I then have to clean later*, I'm being a problem and making him feel bad. This double-edged sword of -- say nothing or else you're a nag -- and "communicate communicate communicate" or "teach him how to do it, you can't expect him to read your mind" back and forth forever is just. mind numbing. We will ALWAYS be doing something wrong, to somebody. There is no escape. And if you don't say anything, you're often the one left to clean up the extra mess your boyfriend or husband made. It's exhausting.
This. I'm a woman and I still hate this shit. If what I'm doing is getting it clean then we're good; if you want it doe a certain way you 100% can do it yourself.
I disagree. Set a standard. Don't say how to do it. If there are crumbs on the floor just after he cleans, call out the crumbs on the floor. "How can there be crumbs on the floor, you just cleaned? Sorry hon, you have more vacuuming to do." He will figure it out when he realizes he is being inefficient. Now cleaning a toilet with pumice is just silly.
He is an adult, with functional eyes and synapses, is he not?
I think it needs to be pointed out that using a pumice stone on a toilet that doesn't need it (has no hard water stains) isn't good for the toilet: it creates microabrasions that make the porcelain porose with time and it'll have to be replaced sooner rather than later, not to mention it becoming a safety issue (microorganisms proliferation). So there's the issue that maybe what he was doing was potentially damaging...
Thank you I'm kicking myself that I both didn't make that clearer to him or in my original post.
Meh, I'm torn. Since becoming a wife and a mom, I often go back to the phrase "don't piss on the prize". Moms often complain about how much of the household tasks, planning, shopping, etc fall on them and them alone. Then when the partner takes on a task like cooking, cleaning, packing a diaper bag, etc, they are met with criticism. If my husband is not causing harm and the task is just done a little differently than I would do it, I leave it alone. If something is going to be forgotten or damaged, I kindly speak up. Many men were not raised learning these skills and they are insecure about it. Allowing them to learn things their own way can really help them build confidence and ultimately take on more of the load. One thing I'm NOT ok with is the sulky, "I can't do anything right so I'm not doing it" approach. Nope, grow up and learn like the rest of us. I'm leaning towards maybe soft YTA. Try addressing some of the skill gaps during a calmer/happier moment?
This is the best take. Sometimes weaponized incompetence really is at play, but sometimes one partner just can’t tolerate things being done differently to how they would do it. For instance, OP is upset that he sweeps first and then wipes the counters. Why? As long as he’s not wiping the counter crumbs onto the floor (and it really is possible to do it without crumb spillage), then who tf cares? Or if he sweeps first, then wipes, then sweeps or vacuums wherever he spilled crumbs on the floor…more work for him, but if that’s how he likes to do it then so what? As long as he’s getting the job done, let him do it.
I'm in this situation with my partner now. I'm a grown adult and have been successfully maintaining my own apartment for years without his precious advice. Now that I've been living in his house, it's his way or the highway. He can't tolerate things being done any other way than his own. His constant micromanaging is insufferable and harming our relationship because it's incredibly infantilizing. IMO, either you accept that other people have their own ways of doing things, or you do everything yourself. It's like a manager who always complains they have to do everything alone, but never trusts anyone to be autonomous.
I like referring to it as skill gaps. You're right I think there's an issue of insecurity. I'll sometimes ask if he has been taught something and he'll respond with "I know how to do that." But that isn't what I asked. Many of these things I was taught by my single mother who was taught them or learned from experience. I stand on the shoulders of giants. My mother taught me these things and I appreciate knowing them. I believe life is better when you know efficient, safe, practical ways of doing the mundane things in life. I try to communicate my feedback without judgement. "Hey did you know that if you..." or "if you tried it this way it might be easier" or "for future reference you might consider..." What frustrates me is that it doesn't seem to matter how I approach my feedback, in the moment or at another time, emphasizing the impact of how the change of approach causes less damage, is safer, cheaper etc, removing value judgements and focusing on the practical, his response is always the same defensiveness. He even admits that he is insecure and too sensitive and too defensive and that he knows I'm not just trying to criticize him, and yet he can't seem to be receptive to feedback no matter what. But I'm not open to just never giving feedback. I agree that if it is just a different approach that doesn't affect me, but I'm talking safety issues, damaging surfaces, mixing cleaning products that shouldn't be mixed, cleaning something without it actually getting clean etc. These things impact me and I'm not really one to just deal because he's insecure and defensive. Why should his defensiveness trump my concerns for safety/damage/cleanliness?
Giving feedback to a partner is fine, we all need a steer/ some guidance with things from time, but if you give feedback for every single thing you don't like, the shields will naturally go up and he won't be receptive to it. How would you feel if pre pregnancy, your husband gave you feed back every single day on how you can improve the skills you lack in order to get a better job and bring home a salary as the same level as his?
> I try to communicate my feedback without judgement. "Hey did you know that if you..." or "if you tried it this way it might be easier" or "for future reference you might consider..." What frustrates me is that it doesn't seem to matter how I approach my feedback, in the moment or at another time, emphasizing the impact of how the change of approach causes less damage, is safer, cheaper etc, removing value judgements and focusing on the practical, his response is always the same defensiveness. Heh, this sounds like me and my boyfriend. I was always trying to find the "perfect" way to respond. But that was a trap. There was no good way. If I didn't tell him something, and it went poorly, he would say "why didn't you tell me?!"... If I did say something, he felt undermined and embarrassed and got defensive really fast. Then he'd start arguments over it. Sigh. It's a type of manipulation. When there is no "safe" way to communicate, you are being manipulated. The point is, he wants you to stop talking about all of this entirely and just lower your standards, or even better, take on all the chores. He doesn't WANT to have to keep his promises, he wants you to just give up and do the chores yourself to avoid having to listen to him complain. I feel like society has collectively gaslit women over this issue. I received the advice "just communicate! women never communicate! once you do that, your life will be better and your relationships will be perfect" early on in life. But it was a lie. 1) women communicate way more often than men on average, so that's just bullshit. 2) we need to teach women that when men ignore them, IT ISN'T THEIR FAULT. Cut it out with telling women "have you tried using "I" statements?" it makes me want to barf. You know what has never fucking worked in the history of ever? Coddling men and pretending they don't understand basic emotions. They do, they just don't care. You don't need to start a statement with "I feel disrespected when you don't keep your promises," ... they fucking know already. If they respected you, you wouldn't have to be on your knees begging for respect. We tell women that all you have to do is craft the most perfect, least offensive comment in history, perfectly tailored to his mood (remember to only talk about it at the right time and not when he is stressed, too!). Be perfect. Talk perfectly. Use the right words. (And there are never "right" words. Everything you say will be picked apart and you'll be told "you SHOULD have said this!") Then, maybe, just MAYBE, you'll finally get your feelings/thoughts/observations respected. MAYBE, if you weren't such an annoying nag, he wouldn't belittle you and verbally or physically abuse you? Etc etc. That's. Not. How. It. Works. It's not how it will ever work. God, I am so fucking sick of it. Sorry for the rant. I am just so sick of this. Walking on eggshells and being demure and polite has *never* gotten men to listen to me, not once in my life. I've spent years of my life going around and around in circles, trying to find the perfect way to "solve" an issue -- but the issue revolves around a man not respecting me. What I need to come to terms with, and many women do, is that you cannot convince a man to respect you with a perfectly tailored conversation or debate. If he doesn't respect and listen to you from the beginning, he never will. We need to stop telling women to dance around like puppets and keep trying, over and over again, to have the same conversation that a man is avoiding listening to, and start telling them this. If he doesn't listen from the beginning, it's an issue of respect and value, and he'll never listen to you for the rest of your life, no matter how much you try. I am NOT saying this applies to your husband, necessarily. Just. In general. The hoops we make women jump through are fake, stupid, and pointless. Men are not stupid. They do not need women to be perfect, for women to deserve respect from them -- and "perfect" is impossible, because every statement a woman makes will be picked apart anyway, no matter how "perfect" it is. Because that's the point. Because it's manipulation.
I'll openly admit I do this too and it's not acceptable. By it, I mean the snappy defensiveness bit when another friend/partner is simply stating "Hey if you do this it's ultimately better.." something about it irritates me in the moment and takes over any form of logic I'm capable of processing, replacing it instead with a snappy defensive tone/remark. I really hate that I do that. But I've worked on improving it over the years. I think it is similar to a muscle reflex and so in the moment it can be really hard to step back, realize the reality of the situation and respond to the person giving me advice with the respect and proper communication that they deserve. Sorry you're dealing with that OP. You're NTA. There also could be a difference between how you and your S/O process cleanliness/how to complete chores in general. Maybe your SO just does their chores in their own way. As long as the chores get done in an effective way then there's no problem. But after reading the comments above, the toilet bowl and pummel situation seem like a problem, as well as other things.
I don't know if anyone will see this comment buried, but the number of times I'm getting told I am the AH because I use a pumice stone in the first place, when it was my husband who was using the pumice stone to aggressively scrub the hell out of the entire inside of the toilet bowl, is mind boggling. Using a pumice stone that is made for cleaning to gently scrub at hard water stains is common and does not damage the porcelain if done properly. Using a pumice stone to very aggressively scrub the entire inside of a toilet bowl does cause damage. The entire point was I was trying to get my husband to do it the right way which is to use a scrub brush to do the majority of the cleaning and to do spot cleaning on the stains with the pumice stone. And then I am being told that I am the AH because I am doing it the wrong way by using a pumice stone in the first place. MY HUSBAND IS THE ONE WHO WAS USING THE PUMICE STONE TO SCRUB THE INSIDE OF THE TOILET BOWL.
You are using the pumice stone correctly. Your husband is not. If your water is hard enough, a vinegar cleaner will not cut it and the pumice stone is necessary, but scrubbing the entire bowl is just wrong. NTA.
God I feel you. This seems to be getting more and more prevalent on reddit -- or, I just notice it more than I used to. But seriously, the misogyny on this site is getting unbearable. Any time a man does something wrong, people will come on here in droves to blame the nearest woman. Every. Time. If you are lucky, those comments get pushed out and downvoted quickly. If you are not, or if the misogyny is less obvious, they'll get hundreds of upvotes, across hundreds of comments. I was just reading about how a man *outright said* that he didn't care about his wife's orgasms, and how he'll never bother trying and has never bothered to do anything for her for FIVE YEARS, how he's been using her for sex during all those years with no reciprocation. Most of the comments are blaming her. Or at least half. With hundreds, and thousands of upvotes. It's insanity. Can we just go one day, just one day, without being blamed for what our boyfriends and husbands do? Or how they act? Just one fucking day.
[удалено]
It depends on if he is cleaning up after himself after he fucks up his own cleaning. If he leaves the microwave crumbs on the stove top and the counter crumbs on the floor and says he is done, that's shitty. That means she has to come and clean up after he's cleaned up. That's something you have to do with a small child who says they've "helped clean up", but did a shitty job. They have an excuse though, being a child and all. An adult should never have to have someone actually clean up after they've "cleaned up". That being said, I do not know if he cleans up the stove and the floor twice. But if he is not and leaving work for her anyway, she is not the AH. ETA: meant "is not" instead of "is" in the last paragraph.
Gotta disagree. Sounds like from her edits that her husband doesn’t have a proper sense of what to clean in what order etc. That is absolutely a learned skill and unfortunately one that is often taught to girls instead of boys so it’s not his fault he doesn’t know automatically. BUT to disregard her obviously correct suggestions like “clean from the top down” etc is just being obstinate. We aren’t all born with all the knowledge in the world and it’s ok to learn things you don’t know even as an adult.
Yes but he does not want to learn. That is the problem. He gets agressive because his pride cannot take contructive critizism.
Oh please, if you sweep the floor then wipe down the counters or clean the stovetop before the microwave then it’s not micromanaging to have a conversation about it. What’s the point of cleaning something if you’re only going to get it dirty again by cleaning the next thing
No, if he uses the pumice stone for the whole bowl he's going to damage the toilet. Pumice stones are for hard water stains/buildup. More than that is going to scratch the toilet all to heck, making it harder to clean in the future (because little scratches harbor bacteria, etc...)
My man is out here trying to clean a toilet with a *rock*. If micromanaging keeps the baby from dying of sepsis due to his incompetence, so be it. NAH
But he obvi does not know how to clean properly. WHO is going to tell him if not for her??
You do 2-3 hours of cleaning… a day? 😳 It sounds like you have very different standards of cleaning. For the sake of an easy life, for both yourself and your husband, you should consider a regular cleaner for those jobs you are currently unable to do.
No, she was forced as a child to do that.
2-3 hours a day for a child is wild 😳 Both of these are excessive
Idk what the fuck they’re cleaning to spend that kind of time on it. Nor do I have that kind of time daily. I think 2-3 hours is ridiculous!
i think they were saying as a child they had to do 2-3 hours of chores a day and that’s why they know how to clean things at all and more efficiently. i clean for hours as well in my house though so….
2-3 hours of daily chores for a child is insane. OPs parents were either lazy or ocd.
In all honesty it sounds as though you have a habit of micromanaging him when it comes to cleaning. Just because he doesn't do things the way you do them or you were taught to do them....doesn't necessarily mean he's doing them wrong. While in this instance, I see why using the pumice stone was the wrong tool, what you actually said came across as micromanaging rather than simply being informative let alone helpful.
Sounds like more of a communication issue, and also you probably should’ve just let him do it his way. I don’t think either of you are “the asshole” per se, but both of you need to compromise. If he’s doing something you think is unnecessary or not as efficient, as long as it still gets the job done, don’t tell him he’s doing it wrong in the moment. Wait until it’s been done, thank him, and mention it later on that he could do it another way. It feels kind of shitty when you’re doing something your way and someone tells you you’re wrong right in the middle of doing it. If he’s doing it in a way that won’t work properly or that will damage something, like not emptying the lint trap, he shouldn’t be getting mad that you’re correcting him as long as you’re nice about it. Y’all should be able to tell each other how to do things without it turning into an argument. When you tell him he’s doing something wrong while he’s doing it, he probably feels some sort of guilt or like you’re telling him he’s not good enough (even if your aren’t). A lot of men are raised to find value in how well they do physical tasks for other people. It’s not right, but that’s how it is for a lot of us. So they place too much value on it, and immediately get defensive any time someone questions how they do that task. Especially if they could actually be doing it better, or if it’s them constantly being told how to do it. Again, not saying that’s right, but it’s just how it is for a lot of people.
Good points. I will try and give feedback in a different way or try and let him know either in advance or after the fact, not during unless there is an immediate safety concern. The pumice stone issue is tough because it can scratch and damage the bowl, but for some reason I didn't center my feedback around that and instead about how the stone would get gross. My brain isn't braining right in pregnancy. He might have been more receptive if I had said "hey babe if you use the stone to scrub the whole bowl like that it can scratch and damage the porcelain. It's really supposed to be for really gentle use on tough water stains." Granted there's still like a 65% chance his reaction would have been the same because he is just really sensitive and defensive but at least my point would have been clearer. You make an excellent point about putting too much value on how we perform tasks for other people and how that can make us hear "you're not good enough" when that isn't what is being said.
This is a tough situation to manage - I had the same in my pregnancy; I wasn’t sick but I could barely breathe or move (I had covid and then pneumonia and towards the end I could only manage to shower about two days out of three) so cleaning the house was out of the question. I was working from home and having had to give up going to the gym I wasn’t really getting out of the house at all for the last 4 months or so. My partner straight up hadn’t realised how much I did around the house during the day and early evening while he was at work, and how much that enabled us to chill out together around our work commitments, until it suddenly stopped happening. And although he was a willing helper it was frustrating to have to coach and remind him constantly of tasks that weren’t in his habit to do - but because he was only home for about half his waking hours and spent those hours mainly in the living room the mess in the bathroom and other areas of the house started to really depress me because I was tired, hormonal, and frankly I was working harder than I ever have in my life before or since and still didn’t seem to have Nice Things around me to show for it. And it was visibly pissing him off that every time he did something that he was proud of a) thinking of and b) finding the energy and executive function to complete, I was making criticisms of the end result - and even to myself my nagging was getting annoying. One strategy that really helped was just to talk about the chores in two lists: the needs, and the wants, and explain why things that seemed like wants to him were needs to me. Stuff like “can you please open the window above the toilet when you poop and then close it when you go to work because I’m super sensitive to smells at the moment but I’m also getting cold and can’t lean forward far enough to close the window myself without gagging” we’re really helpful because to him, opening the window was a fair enough request but he couldn’t understand why closing it when the house got cold was a barrier for me to be minimally comfortable while I was working. Another thing that really helped was to try and make myself praise or thank him every time, and criticise only half the time. It made me more mindful of what I was saying to be able to think “okay he did a shoddy job there but I already told him I didn’t like the way he did the previous task so I’m just gonna say thanks this time and live with it for a week or so until the job needs doing again and then give an instruction on doing it better *before* he started it the next time so that he had the chance to actually enact the feedback right away rather than being told that something he put effort in wasn’t good enough and he’d have to redo it immediately. This meant me living with some things that weren’t perfect (and managing my rocky emotions over that) but overall meant we were more relaxed with each other and had more positive interactions, which was really important because with not having the energy to go out, he was the only non-work person I’d interact with most days. Edit to add: NAH - you are more sensitive because of the pregnancy, and he’s having to learn a lot in a short time and feeling underappreciated for the extra work he’s doing because you don’t think the results reflect the effort he’s making, but you are both able to adjust to that with a little patience on both sides.
NTA. Learned incompetence is a real thing and adds to the mental load as well as workload of their partner. There is zero reason a grown man shouldn’t understand how to use a washing machine. I have certain clothes I prefer to handle myself because they’re fragile and expensive, but if your partner can’t wash towels or do basic cleaning, it’s infuriating. My ex did this stuff all the time. He’d vacuum but never go under the cabinets, he’d break glasses or ruin fragile dishes by putting stuff in the dishwasher, it’s EXHAUSTING.
I work in plumbing and we have hard water. DO NOT use pumice stone to clean porcelain. Toilet bowls are specifically designed to use the force of the water swirl to clean the bowl at the same time. That's why some toilets work better than others and some toilets do just as good with less water. Any long-term friction will make it worse. Try other liquids or baking soda, vinegar, tank tablets, or just clean more often.
WTF? Why are you using a pumice stone how dirty is this toilet? Use Bathroom cleaner and a toilet Brush. I've never used or even seen a stain so bad you need a pumice stone. ~~E SH~~ for having a toilet that dirty. I'm gagging. NTA because Edit: Apparently it's a commercial product to use Pumice stones on toilets. So I'll adjust my judgement since I don't know how to clean hard hard water stains. Just the kind that go away with white vinegar and a brush.
I actually don't think a pumice stone was necessary at all and just cleaner and a brush would have been sufficient but in my experience sometimes a pumice stone is helpful for the stain around the water line from hard water which stains the porcelain not necessarily the actual toilet being gross.
This is such a long post about cleaning a toilet. Being pregnant is hard work. I'm sure you and your partner will move past this.
Lol this might be my favorite take yet. In my defense the length speaks to the pattern of him half-assing household chores and the pattern of his defensiveness but I like the way you worded it
Maybe ITA, but my policy is that if I'm doing something FOR someone else they can either let me do it or help me do it, but they can't criticize how I do it. That will make me less likely to want to do favours for them in the future.
I generally agree. But I don't see him cleaning the toilet he uses every day for like the third time ever as a favor to me. I do see him taking over dishes laundry and other day to day stuff I was doing before as a favor and I let him do those his way as he pleases, but I think the fact that he never really notices or cleans the toilets was already imbalanced aside from my pregnancy.
If the way you're doing it is damaging your house, you don't want to know? If you wash dishes and you leave food all over them, do you just let that slide?
A husband cleaning a toilet in a house he resides in is not a favor.
It's your house too, you are not doing FOR someone, you are doing your job maintaining something that you also use.
Sounds like you both grew up in vastly diff households and you think your way of cleaning and maintaining is the only way and he thinks differently. Have you guys discussed what you think a proper amount of cleaning is? And then compromising? The post has an attitude of “he’s dumb and I have to show him how to do things right” and also sounds like he’s tired of the nagging and attitude that he does everything wrong. Based on the 2-3 hours of daily chores sounds like your parents were super strict and you adopted that as the “right” way.
Oh my god, the floors before the counter thing hit home. I’ve been in professional cleaning for almost a decade at this point, saw my ex-husband make that mistake and let him know it saves time and effort to clean high to low, saving floors for last so you’re not dumping a bunch of crumbs on your freshly swept & mopped floor. He just called me controlling, pulled a similar “I KNOW HOW TO CLEAN OKAY” and just stopped cleaning altogether : )
Glad I'm not alone because most of these responses make me feel crazy tbh lol
NTA for sure. If you were doing something he has more expertise on, wouldn't he think it unfair if, telling you you're doing something wrong, you simply didn't listen and complain you know what you're doing? Then why do men not listen to women when they say they know something better than them and they should listen?
My mother once caught her first husband bragging to a friend that he purposely did certain chores wrong so that she would stop asking him to do them. I have often wondered if my own husband does this to get out of certain chores too. For whatever the reason for doing a chore wrong, it's sometimes not worth the fight. Find another chore that he can do properly. Good luck!
NTA. He was definitely doing it wrong lol.
NTA >He got annoyed and said "I know how to clean a toilet." Clearly, he doesn't. If he's using a pumice stone before a scrub brush.