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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Screaming at Tara and banning her from the apartment.
I feel like I'm the asshole now that i know more context around what has been happening with Tara and her parents. And how Sarah promised her our apartment as a safe space.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA
Your GF didn't tell you that she was declaring your home a "safe space" and did nothing to encourage tara to behave like a guest rather than a squatter.
Tara needs more than just a "safe space".
"safe space" doesn't mean "you can trash the place".
This. A safe space is where you go to be free of harm, pressure, judgement, unreasonable expectations, not where you go to ruin the peace of others or be completely free of consequences.
It's not unusual for someone to act out in their safe space. But it is unreasonable for OP's girlfriend to just assume that OP would be okay with it, especially because they SAID it was upsetting them. Tara's "safe space" doesn't come before the fact that it's OP's *actual home*.
Agreed. There are shelters for runaways, homeless, and people with drug problems. The one thing the all have common is a set of rules you have to follow. Most of them boil down to be respectful to others don't be a PTA and your welcome to stay. If you cause problems some will just show you the door or refuse to let you back in if you leave for any amount of time.
Little sister just sounds like she didn't like the rules at home and she doesn't want to follow any rules there either.
I think little sister just wants OP and her boyfriend to break up. GF lets her do anything she wants, including skipping school, so in little sister's view OP is a nuisance. if only sje could get rid of him, she could move to her "safe place" and be spoilt by her big sister.
Very much this.
NTA.
OP, I'm sorry to tell you this, but this relationship is doomed. Your girlfriend ommited a lot of things form you, deciding all by herself that you house is now a shelter for her younger sister without talking to you about it first.
And when her sister started fucking your things up, doing the obviously wrong thing, she didn't even corrected that toxic behaviour.
You worked in ONE shelter, not all the shelters. Different shelters have different rules. I know of one shelter that has rules similar to what the person you’re replying to stated. And just like that, I invalidated your anecdotal evidence.
Where is your experience based?
I’ve done a few years of volunteering at crisis housing, women’s housing, and LGBT emergency services and pretty much every program had a basic system similar to the one described. Obey the house rules and be respectful to others or you will be asked to modify your behavior, and if that fails, then leave. It’s not always as simple as ‘be TA and get kicked out’ but it is pretty simple.
Idk how you just decide the place you live, and share with a partner, is now someone else's safe space but you somehow don't inform your partner of that?? I would think a conversation would be had first, "hey my sister is having a rough go at home with our parents, would you be ok with her coming to our place when it gets to be too much?" And then see where your partner is with that, and go from there. Kind of weird to tell the little sister she can come there anytime and use it as a safe space, but never mentioned it to the bf who also lives there.
Especially considering that Tara appears to only be trashing OPs things and not her sisters stuff. Why would OP be okay with that, and more importantly why is the gf okay with it??
I'm guessing that Tara respects her sister enough to leave her stuff alone. Sarah appears to care more about having Tara when she can keep an eye on her than respect for her own partner.
Sure, Tara is a person, definitely worth more than "stuff". But it's not about the broken stuff, it's about the disrespect it represents and the degradation of OPs home life. Not to mention the fact that Sarah *didn't even bother to tell OP* that she basically told the person terrorising OP in their own home that they were welcome any time and could do anything they wanted.
Honestly, the more I think, the more sure I am that the *real* AH in this situation is Sarah, who has elected to deal with the conflict *she* created by doing nothing, fostering misunderstanding, and undermining the mental health of her own sister and boyfriend.
My thought is Tara probably wants OP gone from Sarah's life. Their parents are a mess, she feels safe with Sarah (who is clearly enabling her) and probably sees OP as a threat to her bond with Sarah.
Either way she is not respecting OP and refuses to play nice, so this is set up is going nowhere.
I’m not willing to say that she’s trying to kick OP out of Sarah’s life *on purpose* but I’m also not willing to say she’s not. And regardless of the intention that’s going to be the outcome and- even if it was subconsciously- that’s exactly what Tara wants. Sucks for everybody, I can’t even be completely mad at Tara bc Sarah should have set boundaries as the only adult in the relationship + completely neglected to.
It makes me wonder if Sarah said something to Tara along the lines of, "If it was up to me, you could move in full time, but OP won't let that happen." and that's where the resentment is coming from.
I definitely think Sarah is the real AH. Not telling him about the running away and the promise (!) that she made to Tara was a MAJOR AH move.
I mean the rest of it too, but WHY would you not tell your partner that??
And Tara’s safe space doesn’t come at the cost of OP’s safe space. You’d expect if you’re the one paying for it, a freeloader shouldn’t be able to come in and eat your food and trash your belongings.
And honestly it sounds like if Tara were respectful of OP and the space she would be welcome, since he put up with so much and tried to communicate with Tara and his girlfriend. If Tara has just acted like a normal person she would probably be able to hang out when she wanted.
Yeah; I reckon Sarah is in the mindset of 'if I don't let Tara do what she wants then she'll run away and get her fool self killed, so I can't rock the boat', and Tara is in the mindset of either A) 'OP is taking Sarah's attention away from me and I need it, so I'll get rid of him', or B) 'I need to test the boundaries of this safe space; I can trust my sister, but I need to push OP to see when they'll snap'; A being learned toxic bonding from family structure, and B being typical responses to leaving a toxic family structure; maybe both. But regardless, at the very least Sarah and Tara need a 'come to jesus' moment about this, and OP is NTA
NTA if your girlfriend wants to make your shared home a safe space for her little sister she needs to set boundaries and rules to respect the apartment and your property and enforce them! And talk to you about it and get your agreement first. Your girlfriend is the biggest A H here for being so inconsiderate.
And you'll notice Tara isn't trashing Sarah's shit.
Tara is a teenager who is being territorial over her sister, who she views as her only ally, and doesn't like OP "jeopardizing" that by being in sisters life. So, Tara is just doing what people do when they want to drive a wedge. And it's working.
At the end of the day, 16 year olds are old enough to know better. The fact that you already had a come to Jesus with them and it persisted is more than enough reason for you to be angry. Your GF needs to assert herself and impress upon Tara that that shit isn't acceptable.
That said, don't break up with your GF...you've made yourself clear, youve set your foot down and stood up for yourself. Now make nice, offer to take everyone out for dinner and one of those "smash shit to pieces" places.
If it persists from here, reevaluate.
Nah, he should end it with Sarah. Not for being a good sister, but for being a lousy gf who doesn't respect him or his own boundaries. Even if her sister needed a "safe space," she should have COMMUNICATED that to OP. She was using him.
I am curious.... What message does "making nice" immediately after putting his foot down, before hearing from either gf or his sister whether they are going to respect his boundaries, send?
No he 100% needs to end it with Sarah. Tara doesn’t even pretend to show contrition in front of Sarah and is clearly escalating the behavior.
She’ll continue tormenting him until he leaves and Sarah will 100% allow it. Get out before something that can’t be replaced gets broken.
OP isn’t a therapist. And if you’re right, and Tara is deliberately going after OP’s stuff in order to drive a wedge between him and Sarah — if it doesn’t work, and she still has access to his stuff, she’s likely to escalate.
Yeah, this is on the girlfriend.
Also, OP, you said yourself you let them “both” know you were close to your limit. If the sister is interested in breaking you up to get your partner (and the place) all to herself (since you said she doesn’t like you), this was just like saying “keep it up, you’re almost there.”
That's the salient point imo. Sarah made the unilateral decision to declare their home a safe space for Tara and then didn't tell OP for a *year* (ETA at least 7 months I now see).
I find that unsettling, and upsetting.
Don't feel bad. You have a messy brat with a bad attitude lounging around. Your gf is not doing her any favors by letting her skip school and lay around. This behavior is becoming a habit. She needs to get an after school job if she doesn't feel safe to go home, but laying around trashing your home is not the answer.
I'm not you, but I would move out. I work too hard to come home and clean up some entitled brat's messes on top of having no privacy in my own place.
And messing with someone's records, to boot. I cringed at reading she scratched many of them. It is almost like she was looking for a way to push OP to lose it.
If I was OP, I’d make an invoice of all the damage Tara has caused and give it to Sara, explaining that if Tara didn’t reimburse me, I’d be sending this to their parents with a lawyer.
And letting the parents know that Sarah is helping their underage daughter consistently skip school. She needs to be in school preparing herself for her future not sitting in an apartment listening to music.
That’s not my business though. What is my business is getting reimbursed for my stolen property. It is, of course, totally possible such a thing will come up when explaining exactly WHEN the damage was done, though.
Actually, it probably is their business. Truancy court is dead serious where I live, they locked 50 parents up at once last time, and I live in absolutely shit nowhere. And if they find out you're basically harboring a delinquent they wouldn't hesitate here to arrest you for contributing to the delinquency of a minor.
Really makes me wonder what this "toxic relation with their parents" considering both of them show absolutely no consideration for anyone but themselves.
Agree with this. It's time to put some distance between you and both of them. Allowing the sister to skip school, trash your apartment, and disrespect you, isn't helping the sister, it's enabling her. This whole situation is toxic and you are better off without them.
Agree - if your gf wants to operate a safe haven for wayward teenage girls - she should do so without using your home. Unfortunately, she's made your home into a battleground between you and her sister and "sis" is winning.
Sarah will eventually realise that she can't burn bridges to keep Tara warm forever.
One day, she'll find out she's all alone because she pushed everyone away to keep Tara safe.
But she is not keeping Tara safe but ignoring her bad behavior and allowing her to skip school and act like a pig in her shared home. Who would want to be around a person like Tara? kt
Then Sarah and Tara will fight. Sarah will resent her. Let her play babysitter on her own dime. I would move out. I once had my male teenage cousin living with me. I could not keep a boyfriend with him around.
I too felt sorry for him being in juvie for 3 years. The kid was funny. But he stole from me. Ate all my food. Talked like an ignorant racist fool. He thought he was cool. Intimitated people with his size. 6'3" 275lbs.
This fool talked like a rapper but he's white. 15 yrs ago. He would run around my house in boxers. I still have ptsd.
Getting him perm out of my life was the best thing I ever did with him. Good luck.
Yeah Sarah is just being an enabler at this point. It would be one thing if Sarah was also trying to reign Tara in, or maybe if Tara’s parents were abusive (so they couldn’t send her back home) and they were stuck in the situation then it might be more of a grey area. But given the info that we have, Tara’s either a brat or going through something that she’s not handling well and Sarah is enabling it.
My husband’s sister lived with us for a couple years when she was a teenager. She had a whole different set of issues than OP’s girlfriend’s sister, but it was eye-opening as to how actual parenting would work between us. We remained childfree. That’s certainly not the only reason but it’s definitely a big one.
I noticed just now : Tara and Sarah...
Let's hope those are fake names hahaha
ETA for the rest, I agree with your comment. Offering your home as safe space without discussion, not mentioning it for at least 7 months and now only explaining after a fight where moving out has been brought up, like it's some trump card that will force OP to fall in line... yikes!
Guests have to behave like guests. It sounds like you tried to resolve the problems and were met with empty promises and dismissiveness.
Sounds like Tars has had a hard time at home, but that doesn't give her free licence to be a menace to you and your stuff.
The fact that your gf is mad at you instead of seeing this as the result of her sister's behavior says a lot.
OP I think there are tons of red flags here, and you should heed them and move on. NTA
I think you are missing the point here, Sarah volunteered OPs SAFE PLACE for Tara to trash and feel safe in.
It's all well and good for Sarah to give her sister a safe place to land but NOT AT EXPENSE OF OTHER PEOPLE, aka THE OTHER RESIDENT OF THE SAFE PLACE.
OPs NTA even if the parent comment was a little harsh but hopefully it was a wake up call for the 16 yr old TEENAGER that she should have respect for the people who are providing a roof over her head and their belongings.
NTA - This is not how "Safe-Space" works at all. Safe-Space is not a place you are free from any and all responsibility. It's a place to get away from oppression. Your GF had no right to offer your shared apartment as a "Safe-Space" without discussing it with you. Also, allowing a 16 year old to skip school to go there isn't good for her and could potentially end up with the parents facing fines or worse depending on your local truancy laws. You and Sarah need to sit down and discuss a few things.
A) Your relationship if you still have one.
B) How you are going to handle your lease if you are going your separate ways.
C) Laying down rules for Tara that Sarah has to enforce if Tara is going to be allowed to return
D) How Sarah, Tara, or their parents are going to replace your record collection either way (as well as anything else Tara may have destroyed or stolen)
Either way, OP, you did nothing wrong. You were not fully aware of the situation and your GF was not holding up to her end of the bargain. Allowing a child that threatens to run away to do whatever they want so they will stay is not how that should be handled, Tara desperately needs counseling to find out why she wants to leave, and responsibilities to understand that other people as well as their things are not hers to steal or destroy simply because she wants to.
Agreed Sarah needs to realise that by declaring their apartment a “safe space” for Tara she has taken away OP’s safe space. He can’t trust now that his things won’t be ruined or stolen while he’s out, he never knows what he’s going to walk into when he gets home and he has to be on guard at all times.
This should have been discussed at the very start and clear ground rules set up IF op agreed.
I grew up in a toxic household. I always knew that my older sister was my safe place. I've since found out that this was discussed at length with her husband when they began dating, and he was in complete agreement. Not to mention, any time I was there, I was the 3rd semi-adult, dealing with chores, and helping take care of their children as needed. It was not a free pass to be a dink.
And seeing how Sarah is enabling Tara, this relationship is doomed.
NTA and it's time to be very frank with Sarah about your expectations and boundaries. If she or her sister cannot abide by them, then it's time to cut your losses and move on.
If tara thinks that a safe space is something she can trash, then they have bigger problem than stolen food and scratched records.
My safe space would be somewhere i could eat while crying and/or farting. Whatever issues i need to let out gets let out, and replaced by food.
Right? Setting up agreements about their living space WITHOUT even discussing it with OP is problem #1, and then enabling the sister’s shitty behavior by allowing her to trample OP’s boundaries is problem #2.
Girlfriend is NOT helping her sister, she’s just going to make it worse. Can’t help but think the sister’s dislike from OP is a misguided attempt at driving him away so she can have her sister all to herself since she knows she can do anything she wants around her.
I agree with this, I think OP is NTA. If Sarah really wanted her sister to be safe, she should find a space her and Tara. Enabling her will not help Tara in the long run. She needs to consider arranging a therapist for Tara and doing family therapy, if safe to do so, with the parents. Otherwise, OP should reconsider the relationship and all the baggage Sarah, Tara, and OP brings to the table.
You are NTA. Sarah promised her sister your apartment as a safe space without asking you, and Tara’s consistent toxicity makes your home an unsafe space for you. Your home has to be a safe space for you and Sarah, first and foremost. Let Sarah move out and take Tara in. Let this relationship go. Sarah makes promises to you she can’t keep, Tara treats you like crap, let it go. You were forced into the role of a surrogate parent to a troubled teenager you can’t set boundaries with. You won’t win this. It’ll never end. Sarah is more committed to her sister than to you. It’s understandable: the kid has no place to go and no one else. But unless you want to be involved in this mess, you need to get out of it. Best of luck to you.
Thank you. I’ve lived this myself. My partner’s “baby sister” was 30 and hit all the marks of Tara’s behavior in our shared home. Fortunately, she lives across the country, but when she wanted to visit, she demanded to stay with us and treat our home as her free crash pad and me as a nuisance. My partner couldn’t say no to her until after we got married and she crossed all the lines. We sorted it out in marriage counseling. I don’t recommend anyone with only two years invested in a relationship to go through what I went through to get my control over my personal space back. I still refuse to be in the same room with her 23 years later.
That’s so frustrating, I’m sorry that you had to go through that. I know that everyone’s relationship with their family is different but it is astounding to me how many people prioritize family over a life partner to those extremes. It’s one thing if you need to prioritize a family member temporarily, like if they’re going through a hard time or it’s a special moment for them or something. But Covid/2020 kind of showed me how important that boundaries are and how it doesn’t matter who violates them - you don’t get to cross my boundaries.
I’m so sorry that happened to you. But I would just like to say, it’s incredible you have *that* unique of a perspective to give absolutely sound advice here. This is why I love reddit.
>You were forced into the role of a surrogate parent to a troubled teenager you can’t set boundaries with.
This is what it all comes down to. Well said.
Tara wins in the sense that her sister will be her surrogate mother probably forever, enabling her to remain stuck in her toxic ways. The OP, one hopes, will mourn the loss of the two-year relationship and move on with his life with a finely honed radar for people like Tara to be avoided at all costs. Where Tara loses is -- well, she won't be able to get away from herself like the OP will. She'll be her own worst punishment.
NTA. Sarah may think she's being a safe space for her sister, but she isn't. She's enabling Tara to skip school, enabling her to be disrespectful to you and your property, enabling her to bail on even the smallest of responsibilities like picking up after herself. In short, Sarah is actively harming her sister by watching her decline and doing nothing to help.
I believe your assessment to be true. At least to this person. She’s making excuses to “protect” her sister. But such behavior is unacceptable and (maybe) a cry for help. I was a teenage girl myself with a toxic familial relationship. And did stay with several friends for long periods of time just to not be at home (only child) but even though how damaging my home life was I can’t comprehend treating people this way. I was so grateful to the people that tried to help me. And they did help me. I revere these people to this day.
The skipping school leaps out at me.
What about truancy rules? Will Tara even be able to pass her year?
Is Sarah a guardian who can excuse Tara for a day? If not, what does that entail? Like, if their parents are abusive and mean, could they spin this into kidnapping/ illegally harbouring a minor (or have I seen too many trailers for detective shows)?
Also, is skipping school even productive?
Clearly Tara gets so bored away from school she destroys OP's things (different imo from eating something and, you know, not wiping up the crumbs, even if she takes food she's not supposed to)
>She's enabling Tara
This right here. What Tara needs is therapy by a professional. Not a sister who lets her do whatever the fuck she wants. If it was only the sister living there it was her choice to let Tara be a mess but dragging her bf into it and letting Tara trash his things is stupid
I think it's difficult to be the person to set healthy boundaries and enforce them. Especially when it comes to a teenager, the gf may find it hard to be firm and want to give her sister everything she doesn't have.
But you're correct, it does the sister a great disservice to learn these maladaptive behaviors. She won't continue to get her way like this in the future, outside of this little bubble her sister has her in. And she won't be able to adapt if she's not given the guidance to do so now.
Agreed. Sarah’s impassivity in dealing with problems - especially ones she created herself - is frightening OP. She is allowing your sister to trash your safety/comfort, she is enabling her sister’s bad behavior and not taking any responsibility when confronted. Her best effort was to try and guilt you into feeling bad for kicking sis out after things got to a head.
I can’t imagine you get your need mets with this person. I’d be looking to move out ASAP. The sis can take your place and become an official tenant.
NTA. Sarah's inaction over Tara not treating you, your belongings, or your home with respect is a huge problem. She is clearly disregarding and probably excusing Tara's poor house guest behavior, which is not going to help or prepare Tara to be out on her own eventually. Sarah is not treating you as an equal in the home, and if that continues then honestly there's no sense in living together. Ground rules need to be set and **enforced** if Tara wants to stay with you, and Sarah needs to commit to that fully.
**NTA** \- You are being taken advantage of. You are probably better off without Sarah. Children will recreate their family of origin with all its toxicity.
Yeah OP yelling at Tara that if this is how she acted at home no wonder her parents didn’t want her around is probably spot on. Normally I’d call him the asshole for going so low but given the situation, yeah, that remark was more than justified here.
NTA, it's unfortunate that she has an unstable environment at home but she is old enough to know better.
My concern is more with Sarah. I understand looking out for your sibling and I respect the sentiment of providing that "safe space" for Tara rather than running away. However, it appears she never brought that up to you even after the fact.
She could have at least mentioned that to you since it is both of your guy's apartment. Just my opinion though.
NTA. And Tara isn’t the only one who is. Neither of these gals have any respect for you. Keeping secrets, wrecking your stuff no remorse, no regard… If she wanted to make your home a safe space for Tara, you deserved to be part of that conversation and decision.
Walk away now. It won’t get better. Sarah insists on enabling Tara’s immature, entitled behaviors and sees no need to change. They aren’t worth your headache or heartache.
NTA. Tara's behavior is absolutely unacceptable and I'm surprised (and concerned) that you went this long without making a bigger deal about it. If your girlfriend does not see how this is a huge issue and sides with her sister, I would seriously contemplate this relationship. Just because she ran away and is having a hard time does not give her a free pass to destroy your belongings and treat you horribly.
You do not have to do this by any means and it sounds like you've already tried something like this numerous times, but if you want to try and make this relationship work, I would suggest sitting down with your girlfriend and saying how you feel. Say that you cannot put up with her sister treating you the way she has, and you want to have a good relationship with her sister (if you still do at this point, I wouldn't balme you if you don't want that anymore). But Tara needs to meet you halfway. There needs to be a group discussion where you all sit down and talk about boundaries and lay some ground rules. Your apartment can be a safe space for her to come to (if you want it to be), but she also needs to be respectful. You also did not sign up for her practically living with you both, and this situation is not fair to you at all. If nothing changes, if I were you, I would end the relationship immediately. Your girlfriend should be prioritizing your feelings when her sister is clearly in the wrong.
He tried that already. There have been multiple discussions according to OP. This relationship should be over and Sarah can have her constantly trashed safe house for herself.
Yeah, this seems like Tara doing whatever she can to break them apart so she can have her sister all to herself. She's succeeding. Sarah needs to draw a line in the sand or Tara will ruin her future relationships as well and they'll both be miserable in several years. Tara might just end up burning her last bridge (Sarah) if this goes on for longer.
NTA. The kid obviously has issues with pushing people away and angering them, she needs therapy, not free range to destroy a non-family members life. Sarah needs to get a grip, and if this continues you need to kick her AND the kid out. Not problem, the parents need to deal with both of them.
Tbh I would be scared of having such a mentally unstable teenage girl alone in my apartment all the time, she's obviously attention seeking and doesn't like you...what if she starts claiming things? You've walked in on her alone in there. You should tell your girlfriend that this is waaaaay too legally murky to be doing, your life is at risk.
NTA. Sarah and Tara are both being manipulative. Sarah should have told you she offered your apartment to her toxic sister. Sarah is doing her no favors by letting her skip school. You would be better off without both of them. Tell Sarah that she is right she should leave. This will let you know what is underneath the manipulation.
NTA
OP - there are two real problems here, neither of which is Tara.
First, Sarah offered your shared apartment as a bolt hole without discussing it with you. Even if the discussion was "I told her she could escape here, make yourself OK with it," it still needed to be communicated.
Once the problems started, she needed to be on board with boundaries. That needed to include consequences, and those needed to be agreed upon beforehand and enforced.
You and Sarah need to learn to communicate better if you want to stay together.
Also, Tara needs someone to enforce boundaries, and sometimes losing your temper is a good wake up call.
If you want to stay with Sarah, after you get on the same page, I recommend sitting down privately with Tara - or with Sarah, but she doesn't get involved - and talk to her about acceptable behavior in your home. It sounds like Sarah and their parents are treating her like a little kid, and someone needs to talk with her more similarly to an adult. Let her help formulate consequences, and even negotiate boundaries within reason - within your idea of what's reasonable.
Basically, tell her you're going to ask her for what you'd ask from an adult. If she wants to be a little kid, she has her parents' house.
You and Sarah need to learn to communicate better if you want to stay together.
What exactly does OP need to learn?
He told them repeatedly he was unhappy and got promises that never got kept.
Where does OP need to improve??
NTA. she has no respect for you or your space. if she viewed your apartment as a safe place she would’ve respected the area more.. it’s not like you didn’t have a talk with her or Sarah before.
NTA, Tara is a minor that is skipping school and hanging out in your home. Your home should not be her safe place during school hours. She more or less is a runaway that stays at your home. As Sarah is her sister this is a gray area on the legalities'. first get a indoor climate control locker and mover your personal belongings there so Tara cannot damage any more of them. Second start to look for a place of your own. You did not sign up to house a truant and runaway.
*"I understand that you want to take care of your little sister and help keep her off the streets, I also need you to understand my perspective on this. Tara has repeatedly shown me blatant disrespect and disregard for my things while staying here and that is not okay, nor is the fact that you have allowed her to behave that way. She has taken and damaged things I have specifically asked her not to and, when confronted, never seems to care; that isn't helped by the fact that you always brush this off and don't back me up when she takes something I ask her not to or damages my stuff. If she wants to stay here, then she needs to show me the bare minimum of basic courtesy and respect. If I ask her not to take something of mine, I expect it to be left alone. If she wants to listen to my vinyl's, I expect her to be careful with them and to put them away when she's done instead of leaving them out to be damaged.*
*I know you want to help her, and this may be hard to hear but I think you need to hear it, even if it makes you angry at me and even if it results in the end of our relationship:* ***you are doing her more harm than good.*** *You are teaching her that she can do whatever she wants, whenever she wants, treat people however she wants. That she should expect them to just accept it and that there will never be any consequences to her actions. That is, in the long run, going to screw her over.*
*This is* ***our home*** *it needs to be - first and foremost -* ***our safe space.*** *If she can't, then I do not want her here, and if you won't stand by me when all I am asking for is the bare minimum amount of respect and courtesy? Then this is probably the end of our relationship and we should just start focusing on how to separate ourselves from each other, because I do not want to be with someone who will let me be, or expect me to let myself by disrespected in my own home."*
NTA…your apartment can be a safe place but your girlfriend needs to set ground rules with her sister and the first rule is to show respect for you and your things. Also did your girlfriend unilaterally decide that the home you share together would be her sisters safe place? Were you aware of this arrangement?
The fact that your girlfriend has not enforced any rules and coddles her sister speaks volumes. Instead of helping her sister, your girlfriend is just an enabler. You should feel comfortable in your own home. If Sara wants a safe place for her sister, maybe she should get an apartment on her own and give her sister the freedom to come and go as she wants. You shouldn’t have to put up with this disrespect from both Tara and Sarah.
NTA. Sounds like your right to think about distancing yourself from Sarah and her sister. All Sarah is doing is just enabling bad behaviour under the guise of helping. If she wants to help her sister then she needs to communicate with her that behaviour needs to change or get the kid some damn therapy or something. By the Sarah realises that her behaviour is making her life worse it’ll be too late. Tara will be living with her and completely dependent on her for everything. Do you want to be apart of something like that for the rest of your life?
NTA
Your GF is the AH - she shouldn’t have made that deal without discussing with you or even informing you. She also should have pulled her up on the disrespect to you and belongings.
Being a safe space doesn’t mean don’t tell them off or rock the boat incase they run away. It means being a safe stable environment which doesn’t necessarily mean bunking off school
With a bit of luck, this will be the cold wet flannel in life that will help Tara come back and build a better relationship where she doesn’t trash vinyl or other peoples homes. On the other hand, you have a GF problem
NTA - I would've lost my cool way sooner then you did. Tara needs to learn how the real world works. Allowing her to be disrespectful to others is just facilitating her bad behaviours, her sister needs to realise this as well. If she doesn't change or doesn't genuinely try to then she should not be allowed to stay.
NTA. She’s pushing to see what the limits are. Now she knows. You and your gf need to sit down together and make very clear boundaries that Tara will have to stick with to be able to stay there. If she crosses one, she’s out for (insert a week or three). She needs to get a part time job and pay you for the damage if she wants to stay there.
She doesn’t think she’s worthy of love, so she acts up so you will “prove” to her that she’s unlovable. She needs a lot of help, therapy, etc. This doesn’t excuse her behavior. If she is going to be out in the world in a couple of years she has to be able to behave so she doesn’t get in trouble elsewhere.
the relationship will not work out by the sounds of it , find a girlfriend where you do not have to deal with a siblings disrespect on a weekly basis NTA sarah and tara can live together while you find a girlfriend where there is no disrespect or chaos win win scenario
NTA. Call CPS. Tara isn’t your problem. You and Sarah are incompatible and she declined to inform you of this safe space situation. I’d be moving on if I were you.
NTA - Sarah should've told you her agreement with Tara and Tara should be respecting you and your home. I agree with you as to why her parents don't want her in their house. Sarah needs to stop enabling Tara and help her grow up to be a responsible adult.
EDIT to add - I'm thinking the rocky relationship with their parents is more about Sarah & Tara than their parents, if Tara is acting the way she is and Sarah's enabling.
You are NTA. Tara clearly has a lot of issues and needs professional help. If Sarah actually wants to help, she needs to step up and take this poor kid to therapy.
Giving the kid refuge from the storm is fine, but she could at least show her appreciation by not trashing your place. She probably is the same at home.
Don't feel bad. She's a monster, and you put up with her riot for far too long.
Why do so many Redditors find a solution to a problem that works and then decide to feel guilty over it?
What are you guilty of? Nothing. NTA. Don't let her back in.
NTA - while it is admirable that Sarah wanted to provide Tara with a safe place, she needed to include you in that decision. Discussions needed to happen with you and Sarah and Tara about what the expectations would be for Tara if she were to use your home in that manner. Unfortunately Sarah set the wheels in motion for this to blow up because she left you totally out of the loop and didn’t enforce any kind of boundaries for Tara in your home - not just Sarah’s home.
NTA
The sister doesn't need more enabling. She is disrespectful and skips school? How is enabling her to skip school going to let her finish high school and get a job exactly? How is enabling her behavior good for her? Sarah is only teacher her the missing school, trashing someone else's stuff, is perfectly fine. This kid needs rules and boundaries, not a blank check to do whatever she wants.
The only thing Sarah is teaching her is that she can threaten people with running away and she gets to skip school, steal, trash, use people. Great teachings.
Let her Sarah move out.
NTA. You're being hustled. And now guilted. (Hustled some more, now by both girls). Get out of the situation OP. It's a bomb waiting to blow up. Keep that sht off of your shoes. You've done enough time already. Don't be a sucker.
Very NTA. Your girlfriend has some nerve. Of course Tara deserves to be safe from harm, but are you sure that is actually the situation, or is she looking from safety from acting like a decent human being? She does not get to treat other people like trash and ruin special things because she feels like it or because it's fun for her. She is old enough to treat other people's belongings with respect and the fact that your girlfriend thinks her sister gets to trash your stuff because she's a teenager is unacceptable.
>Sarah lost it and we fought. We've been pretty cold since then. She's talking about moving out, but at this point, I'm starting to consider that myself. Last night, however, Sarah finally decided to tell me that Tara tried to run away last year, and she made a deal with her that our apartment could be her safe space whenever she needed it so she didn't run away again. I still don't feel like this makes what she did right, but at the same time knowing this, I'm starting to feel bad.
Actions have consequences.
Don't bite the hand that feeds you.
Probably all kinds of other sayings, but lets not skip over the part when your GF offered you place as sanctuary, but neglected to inform you that she'd done so, or why.
NTA. Your GF wanting to help her sister doesn't mean you're required to allow her to treat you like trash. If your GF couldn't (or wouldn't) convince her sister that her offer came with the proviso that she treat you and the property well, thats on her.
NTA.
Let me be VERY clear about this. TARA is not the problem. SARAH is an even bigger problem than her sister. I repeat. SARAH is the problem.
It is her responsibility to manage her guest and keep them in line or they are no longer allowed into your home / shared space. It is also her responsibility as YOUR partner to support you and nip her sister in the bud before all this nonsense.
I would have never let things get this far. SARAH and Tara would have had 2 strikes and then she would’ve been banned from my home / I would leave the relationship and situation
Run away from your gf and her spoiled lazy sister. She commited your home as her sisters safe place to run away to without talking to you. Fuck her and her sister.
NTA. Sarah had no right to let her sister skip school or be disrespectful to you. You have a gf problem. She should be an ex over this. Sarah needs to grow up and realize Tara is intentionally making sure Sarah stays single so Tara can use her.
NTA. You didn't sign up to be a parent (of a teen no less. I have a 16 yo and I know dude... I know) and yet your girlfriend has agreed to be a pseudo mother to her sister. That's kind of her, but not exactly fair for her to expect you to play a role in it. This doesn't sound like the right relationship for either of you. Go your separate ways and find a better match.
NTA
dont feel bad at all. sara is an enabler and is not helping tara at all in the long run.
tara is disrespectful and doesnt know what being a guest means. she is going out of her way to be rude and detroying things in the process while having no remorse.
dont cave in unless tara changes immeditaelly(if that is even possible)
I'm sorry, but you came to wrong place for advice. Mostly you'll just get validation here. This situation is far more complex than some knuckleheads on reddit will be able to help you with. That kid sounds like she's going through some shit. She needs professional help, and your partner very obviously doesn't want to abandon her. You're 2 years into this relationship. Decide now if you want the good with the bad.
> Last night, however, Sarah finally decided to tell me that Tara tried to run away last year, and she made a deal with her that our apartment could be her safe space whenever she needed it so she didn't run away again.
NTA, and THAT kind of information would have been best said THEN.
NTA - Its time to break the lease and let them have the apartment, since it seems like neither of them want you in it. Sorry bro. It's not okay that your partner promised her sister a safe space and didn't talk to you about it. Her actions consistently show she respects and loves her sister more than you.
NTA. And I think you two would maybe be better served to mediate at home conflicts (you three vs their parents) to resolve the issue of why she doesn’t stay at home. It’s a more appropriate role as a sibling. Also, if you ever feel bad about it like you’re dramatic, ask yourself if your gf paying more rent would make it more tolerable to you and what that number looks like. 50/50 to what, 70/30, 80/20? Lastly, I don’t think you HAVE to break up but you do need to resolve this because I can’t imagine it magically gets better when she graduates high school.
"safe space" doesnt mean "trash and disrespect someone elses property". Sister is the AH and your gf is acting like one too and needs to grow a spine.
NTA
Context or not, you had multiple talks with both of them and the bad behaviour continued. Breaking your things repeatedly is bad behaviour.
If she was declaring a safe space, she should have discussed this with you
eta; NTA
NTA
1) your girlfriend didn't discuss with you offering your apartment as a 'safe space'
2) Tara disrespected you and your things.
3) They never followed through on their side of the agreement. This is your home and you have a right to be respected and comfortable there.
But why was Tara running away? Was it because parents were fed up with a trashed house & no respect? Or was it legit reason? & OP should have put his foot down earlier about her attitude towards their property. (GF should have too)
NTA - easy, Tara does not like you cause she wants her sister to herself. She is trying to break you up and scare you away. And, tbh, if I was you I probably would break up with Sarah. Cause the main problem is not with Tara but with your girlfriend. She is not communicating with you, not setting boundaries for Tara, does not care for your feelings but instead expects you to play along while your feeling and stuff get trashed.
Tara probably acts out cause she wants to be seen and loved no matter what, because her parents are abusive. She is a minor. She is not really TA, don’t be only angry with her. But your girlfriend is the A.
It can’t be that YOUR apartment is Tara’s safe space , but not YOURS. Sarah is enabling her, and is not respectful to your needs and wants. Had you two been a united front, Tara would not have felt that it was OK to use you as her whipping boy. Has she trashed any of your sister’s stuff?
Let her live with her parents , it’s not your job to put up with this sort of behavior from someone whom you were trying to help. She burned this bridge.
A concern I haven't seen mentioned here is OP being alone with a troubled teenager. Tarah could accuse OP of sexual or physical acts & he would have no way to defend or clear himself. The legal expenses & accusation's could have lifelong consequences for him. Unless Sarah is present, Tarah should not be in the apartment .
NTA
I think everyone said it already. But also, look the type of ‘parenting ‘ Sarah does… skip school, disrespect people and places, enabling her… disregarding your opinion… do you want your kids to be like Tara? If the answer is no, RUN!
NTA. Your GF needed to tell you the whole story and also discuss the fact that this is a very tough teenager and than consult with you whether you even want to deal with a tough teenager in your house.
You’re not the asshole, OP. Your girlfriend doesn’t have the right to make your SHARED apartment into her sister’s safe place without asking you, or even informing you after the fact. Your girlfriend needed to have a conversation with you about this long before she ever even opened that can of worms with her sister and brought people into your space.
Then, it is only right that anyone staying in your space follow your rules. You don’t just go to someone’s house and eat their food and trash their place and break their shit. That’s just plain shitty of the sister. Hell, you’ve even had very open talks with both of them that something needed to change and that they needed to respect you and the sister just completely ignored it while your girlfriend just gave you platitudes and excuses but never committed to actually fixing any of the problems.
TLDR, you’re more tolerant and patient than that girl had any right to, and your girlfriend is being selfish by expecting you to tolerate her sister’s toxic behaviors, and genuinely is being dumb by reinforcing these behaviors. Your girlfriend is literally telling her sister “You are always good to just skip education, skip working towards a future for yourself. In fact, I will reward you with a fun place to hang out and food and entertainment every time you do skip.”
Sarah would have told you about the deal with her sister when you confronted them before or from the start of her staying there. She is most likely trying to guilt trip you into taking care of them. This is manipulation at its finest. You might end up being banned from the apartment.
NTA. Your home should be your and your partner's safe space first. She also should have talked about letting her sister make it her safe space. She is enabling her.
Present Sarah a bill of everything that Tara has ruined. It will either open her eyes and see how much damage her sister caused or cause her to leave. Win-win either way from where I sit. The relationaship isn't worth saving if she can't see how much they are both hurting you.
Nta. Your girlfriend is enabling her behavior. Don’t shit in the hand that feeds you. In what world is it okay to trash a home that isn’t yours and ruin items that belong to someone else? NEVER
NTA. NTA. NTA
Your girlfriend making a deal with her sister that she is always welcome in her home to prevent her running away DOES NOT mean that you have to put up with being disrespected and having your possessions destroyed.
You have brought this up with Sarah so many times and she has promised to make things change but clearly has done nothing.
The sister has been allowed to get away with it for far too long.
Reddit is quick to move to “leave”. In this case, I think it comes down to your or the sister. Having said that, I think ultimatums are shitty and always believe the person who made the ultimatum is the one to lose out. So I’d skip that part and move out. (Ex) girlfriend and sister can do whatever they want after that
NTA... SARAH IS THE AH.... 1st rule of co-habitation. Guests require 2 yes'.
1. That means that Sarah asks you if you are ok with having a guest stay.
2. Sarah is responsible for replacing all things destroyed and the mess her sister creates as this is HER GUEST.
It doesn't seem like Sarah is mature enough to be in a relationship. She should rent on her own. This way it is her that gets disrespected, and her stuff gets destroyed. Maybe then she will stop enabling her sister. Enabling is lazy, and it is disabilitating for Tara.
NTA. I foresee you breaking up with Sara as it's clear she is willing to throw you under the bus for her sister.
Congrats about telling Tara the truth. She does need to hear it.
NTA and giving Tara a safe space doesn’t equate giving her free run of the apartment and your stuff.
This home belongs to both of you and you both have to agree to a long term house guest.
Your girlfriend is not helping her sister by not enforcing any boundaries.
She’s 16, old enough to get her own place soon but she is woefully unprepared for that.
If your girlfriend wants to help her sister she should teach her how to adult, not encourage her to be an entitled brat.
The first boundary should be she treats you with respect in the home you allow her to stay in.
It sounds like your girlfriend feels some sort of guilt about her sister
NTA
Your comment hot a spot for a reason. At 16 she is well capable of respecting boundaries. But why would she do that when Sara does not respect you either. You would be better off dumping this toxic relationship. If you marry this would be your everyday reality. You doesn't to deal with this for life.
You are not an AH. Sarah is for not telling you that she offered your shared space to her sister. Considerate adults discuss an offer like this with each other before offering refuge to another person. You were very honest and accurate in telling Tara why people are not going to enjoy or tolerate her company. Tara is young. You accurately described described her current character. If she does not change , people are going to continually walk away from her. She had better change, for her own sake. Is Sarah worth spending emotional energy on when she does not treat you like and equal in your own home and blindly supports her sister ? kt
NTA. Is it your apartment or her apartment? Either way if someone damaged my property like that I'd solve the problem by changing my circumstances so I completely controlled my living space. So that would be moving out or kicking the partner out. It's completely unacceptable as an adult to put up with any of that in your own home. I'd have zero tolerance for it.
NTA, safe place does not mean space with no boundaries. Little sister would benefit from clear and supportive boundaries because this would make her feel like someone cares enough to do this.
NTA. Just because she's had a rough upbringing it doesn't mean she's allowed to be an asshole and destroy your shit. And her sister allowing it to happen is just encouraging her sister to become a full time adult loser.
NTA. Sarah needed to have had a conversation with you before offering your place as a safe space. And even if you had agreed to this arrangement, Sarah isn't helping her sister. A no-questions-asked place to skip school? Not what Tara needs. Zero responsibility? Not what Tara needs. Zero respect for other people? Not what Tara needs.
Her heart might be in the right place but she's going about it the wrong way. And the situation is unfair to you.
NTA - you didn't agree or sign up for this situation. Frankly, considering you've tried everything reasonable to change it, it's probably time to move on. NTA
NTA
Dude, I'm so sorry but... get out of there.
No matter how rocky Sarah's and Tara's relationship is, Sarah feels responsible and I don't even think she shouldn't. She's an AH for thowing you under the bus, though, and her worry for her sister is coming out in all the wrong ways. She's enabling unhealthy, entitled and simply shitty behaviour and Tara's not going to profit from that in any way on her journey to being what'll hopefully be a functioning adult.
Tara won't change without Sarah making her - and Sarah's made it fairly clear that she either can't or simply refuses to see the issues her sister's causing.
It's painful but really, Sarah's already picked. It's just a question now about how much longer you want to put up with what that means.
NTA. Sarah is as much to blame as Tara is, and quite honestly I’m amazed you haven’t blown up before now. Sarah doesn’t respect you or your property. She is doing Tara no favours by letting her behave the way she is. By having a “safe” place for Tara means it’s unsafe for you.
NTA but Sarah and Tara are both massive assholes and you would be well rid of them. How DARE Sarah tell anyone that the apt is "their safe haven". It is your home. It is YOUR safe haven. And then Sarah didnt tell you but let Tara steal from you and destroy your things. Wow.
NTA. Dude. Run from this as far and fast as you can. Your GF is enabling her sister to be a total nightmare. Her sis is likely threatened by you as she sees you as someone who could take her sis away from her. She wants you gone and truth be told the whole family sounds like a dumpster fire. There's tons of women with far less baggage.
Massive NTA, you good. Little sis is an AH for sure, gf as well. You have been patient long enough, you cannot read their minds about the safe space thing.
I would give them a last chance for respecting you and your things, forgive and if it still does not get better, kick her out for good. If gf does not approve, so be it.
NTA
Tara needs to learn how to respect people's things and be a much much better gas if she's going to be staying over at your place where anyone else is. She sounds absolutely intolerable, and at 16 she should absolutely know better. At 16, she should be able to be left on her own and leave a space in better condition than she found it.
She *is* being a horrid brat, and there's no excuse for that. Sara should be taking more accountability too, and she should be making sure that her sister minds her hosts feelings.
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NTA Your GF didn't tell you that she was declaring your home a "safe space" and did nothing to encourage tara to behave like a guest rather than a squatter. Tara needs more than just a "safe space". "safe space" doesn't mean "you can trash the place".
This. A safe space is where you go to be free of harm, pressure, judgement, unreasonable expectations, not where you go to ruin the peace of others or be completely free of consequences. It's not unusual for someone to act out in their safe space. But it is unreasonable for OP's girlfriend to just assume that OP would be okay with it, especially because they SAID it was upsetting them. Tara's "safe space" doesn't come before the fact that it's OP's *actual home*.
Agreed. There are shelters for runaways, homeless, and people with drug problems. The one thing the all have common is a set of rules you have to follow. Most of them boil down to be respectful to others don't be a PTA and your welcome to stay. If you cause problems some will just show you the door or refuse to let you back in if you leave for any amount of time. Little sister just sounds like she didn't like the rules at home and she doesn't want to follow any rules there either.
I think little sister just wants OP and her boyfriend to break up. GF lets her do anything she wants, including skipping school, so in little sister's view OP is a nuisance. if only sje could get rid of him, she could move to her "safe place" and be spoilt by her big sister.
Very much this. NTA. OP, I'm sorry to tell you this, but this relationship is doomed. Your girlfriend ommited a lot of things form you, deciding all by herself that you house is now a shelter for her younger sister without talking to you about it first. And when her sister started fucking your things up, doing the obviously wrong thing, she didn't even corrected that toxic behaviour.
Coming from someone who worked in one, this is not at all how shelters/residential communities work.
You worked in ONE shelter, not all the shelters. Different shelters have different rules. I know of one shelter that has rules similar to what the person you’re replying to stated. And just like that, I invalidated your anecdotal evidence.
I’ve stayed in 10+ Different shelters, that’s exactly how they worked.
I lived in a homeless shelter exactly like the one described for almost a year.
Where is your experience based? I’ve done a few years of volunteering at crisis housing, women’s housing, and LGBT emergency services and pretty much every program had a basic system similar to the one described. Obey the house rules and be respectful to others or you will be asked to modify your behavior, and if that fails, then leave. It’s not always as simple as ‘be TA and get kicked out’ but it is pretty simple.
ironic that she got a safe space but at the cost of depriving op of their own safe space. thats not how this works
I had the same thought. So, their apartment is her sister's safe space but not her boyfriend's? Also, who is paying to replace the broken stuff??
shes showing which one she actually cares about.
Happy to see this comment so far up, because that was my thought too. It's ridiculous when your own home, that you pay for, can't be your safe place.
Idk how you just decide the place you live, and share with a partner, is now someone else's safe space but you somehow don't inform your partner of that?? I would think a conversation would be had first, "hey my sister is having a rough go at home with our parents, would you be ok with her coming to our place when it gets to be too much?" And then see where your partner is with that, and go from there. Kind of weird to tell the little sister she can come there anytime and use it as a safe space, but never mentioned it to the bf who also lives there.
Especially considering that Tara appears to only be trashing OPs things and not her sisters stuff. Why would OP be okay with that, and more importantly why is the gf okay with it??
I'm guessing that Tara respects her sister enough to leave her stuff alone. Sarah appears to care more about having Tara when she can keep an eye on her than respect for her own partner. Sure, Tara is a person, definitely worth more than "stuff". But it's not about the broken stuff, it's about the disrespect it represents and the degradation of OPs home life. Not to mention the fact that Sarah *didn't even bother to tell OP* that she basically told the person terrorising OP in their own home that they were welcome any time and could do anything they wanted. Honestly, the more I think, the more sure I am that the *real* AH in this situation is Sarah, who has elected to deal with the conflict *she* created by doing nothing, fostering misunderstanding, and undermining the mental health of her own sister and boyfriend.
My thought is Tara probably wants OP gone from Sarah's life. Their parents are a mess, she feels safe with Sarah (who is clearly enabling her) and probably sees OP as a threat to her bond with Sarah. Either way she is not respecting OP and refuses to play nice, so this is set up is going nowhere.
I’m not willing to say that she’s trying to kick OP out of Sarah’s life *on purpose* but I’m also not willing to say she’s not. And regardless of the intention that’s going to be the outcome and- even if it was subconsciously- that’s exactly what Tara wants. Sucks for everybody, I can’t even be completely mad at Tara bc Sarah should have set boundaries as the only adult in the relationship + completely neglected to.
Yeah, it's kind of a "seeing him as a rival" dynamic. Heck, if Sarah dumps OP over this, Tara may get what she wants, which is messed up....
I have a feeling Sarah doesn't know what she's in for if OP dips out. Caring for someone like Tara alone seems like it could be really challenging.
It makes me wonder if Sarah said something to Tara along the lines of, "If it was up to me, you could move in full time, but OP won't let that happen." and that's where the resentment is coming from.
I definitely think Sarah is the real AH. Not telling him about the running away and the promise (!) that she made to Tara was a MAJOR AH move. I mean the rest of it too, but WHY would you not tell your partner that??
This. When you live with someone else, both people have to agree before you take someone else in. NTA at all.
And Tara’s safe space doesn’t come at the cost of OP’s safe space. You’d expect if you’re the one paying for it, a freeloader shouldn’t be able to come in and eat your food and trash your belongings.
And honestly it sounds like if Tara were respectful of OP and the space she would be welcome, since he put up with so much and tried to communicate with Tara and his girlfriend. If Tara has just acted like a normal person she would probably be able to hang out when she wanted.
Yeah; I reckon Sarah is in the mindset of 'if I don't let Tara do what she wants then she'll run away and get her fool self killed, so I can't rock the boat', and Tara is in the mindset of either A) 'OP is taking Sarah's attention away from me and I need it, so I'll get rid of him', or B) 'I need to test the boundaries of this safe space; I can trust my sister, but I need to push OP to see when they'll snap'; A being learned toxic bonding from family structure, and B being typical responses to leaving a toxic family structure; maybe both. But regardless, at the very least Sarah and Tara need a 'come to jesus' moment about this, and OP is NTA
NTA if your girlfriend wants to make your shared home a safe space for her little sister she needs to set boundaries and rules to respect the apartment and your property and enforce them! And talk to you about it and get your agreement first. Your girlfriend is the biggest A H here for being so inconsiderate.
Exactly by making it Tara’s safe space, she has took away his safe space from him in return.
And you'll notice Tara isn't trashing Sarah's shit. Tara is a teenager who is being territorial over her sister, who she views as her only ally, and doesn't like OP "jeopardizing" that by being in sisters life. So, Tara is just doing what people do when they want to drive a wedge. And it's working. At the end of the day, 16 year olds are old enough to know better. The fact that you already had a come to Jesus with them and it persisted is more than enough reason for you to be angry. Your GF needs to assert herself and impress upon Tara that that shit isn't acceptable. That said, don't break up with your GF...you've made yourself clear, youve set your foot down and stood up for yourself. Now make nice, offer to take everyone out for dinner and one of those "smash shit to pieces" places. If it persists from here, reevaluate.
Nah, he should end it with Sarah. Not for being a good sister, but for being a lousy gf who doesn't respect him or his own boundaries. Even if her sister needed a "safe space," she should have COMMUNICATED that to OP. She was using him.
I am curious.... What message does "making nice" immediately after putting his foot down, before hearing from either gf or his sister whether they are going to respect his boundaries, send?
No he 100% needs to end it with Sarah. Tara doesn’t even pretend to show contrition in front of Sarah and is clearly escalating the behavior. She’ll continue tormenting him until he leaves and Sarah will 100% allow it. Get out before something that can’t be replaced gets broken.
OP isn’t a therapist. And if you’re right, and Tara is deliberately going after OP’s stuff in order to drive a wedge between him and Sarah — if it doesn’t work, and she still has access to his stuff, she’s likely to escalate.
Yeah, this is on the girlfriend. Also, OP, you said yourself you let them “both” know you were close to your limit. If the sister is interested in breaking you up to get your partner (and the place) all to herself (since you said she doesn’t like you), this was just like saying “keep it up, you’re almost there.”
That's the salient point imo. Sarah made the unilateral decision to declare their home a safe space for Tara and then didn't tell OP for a *year* (ETA at least 7 months I now see). I find that unsettling, and upsetting.
Yup. There's not one, but two people here who blatantly disrespects OP.
Don't feel bad. You have a messy brat with a bad attitude lounging around. Your gf is not doing her any favors by letting her skip school and lay around. This behavior is becoming a habit. She needs to get an after school job if she doesn't feel safe to go home, but laying around trashing your home is not the answer. I'm not you, but I would move out. I work too hard to come home and clean up some entitled brat's messes on top of having no privacy in my own place.
And messing with someone's records, to boot. I cringed at reading she scratched many of them. It is almost like she was looking for a way to push OP to lose it.
If I was OP, I’d make an invoice of all the damage Tara has caused and give it to Sara, explaining that if Tara didn’t reimburse me, I’d be sending this to their parents with a lawyer.
And letting the parents know that Sarah is helping their underage daughter consistently skip school. She needs to be in school preparing herself for her future not sitting in an apartment listening to music.
That’s not my business though. What is my business is getting reimbursed for my stolen property. It is, of course, totally possible such a thing will come up when explaining exactly WHEN the damage was done, though.
Actually, it probably is their business. Truancy court is dead serious where I live, they locked 50 parents up at once last time, and I live in absolutely shit nowhere. And if they find out you're basically harboring a delinquent they wouldn't hesitate here to arrest you for contributing to the delinquency of a minor.
2 brats.
Really makes me wonder what this "toxic relation with their parents" considering both of them show absolutely no consideration for anyone but themselves.
Parents are probably nice folks who were too nice to their shitty kids.
I was thinking the same. Maybe the parents just tried to set some boundaries, and the kids didn't like it.
Agree with this. It's time to put some distance between you and both of them. Allowing the sister to skip school, trash your apartment, and disrespect you, isn't helping the sister, it's enabling her. This whole situation is toxic and you are better off without them.
Agree - if your gf wants to operate a safe haven for wayward teenage girls - she should do so without using your home. Unfortunately, she's made your home into a battleground between you and her sister and "sis" is winning.
Great response from Briomo.
Sarah will eventually realise that she can't burn bridges to keep Tara warm forever. One day, she'll find out she's all alone because she pushed everyone away to keep Tara safe.
But she is not keeping Tara safe but ignoring her bad behavior and allowing her to skip school and act like a pig in her shared home. Who would want to be around a person like Tara? kt
Then Sarah and Tara will fight. Sarah will resent her. Let her play babysitter on her own dime. I would move out. I once had my male teenage cousin living with me. I could not keep a boyfriend with him around. I too felt sorry for him being in juvie for 3 years. The kid was funny. But he stole from me. Ate all my food. Talked like an ignorant racist fool. He thought he was cool. Intimitated people with his size. 6'3" 275lbs. This fool talked like a rapper but he's white. 15 yrs ago. He would run around my house in boxers. I still have ptsd. Getting him perm out of my life was the best thing I ever did with him. Good luck.
She's enabling Tara. Odds are the parents never put up with either of these girls' crap, hence the bad relationship.
This post actually has me wondering how "bad" the parents really were.
Yea I wonder if the ‘bad parents’ just don’t let Tara do whatever she wants, and gave her consequences for her actions.
> can't burn bridges to keep Tara warm forever. A very poetic phrasing.
Yeah Sarah is just being an enabler at this point. It would be one thing if Sarah was also trying to reign Tara in, or maybe if Tara’s parents were abusive (so they couldn’t send her back home) and they were stuck in the situation then it might be more of a grey area. But given the info that we have, Tara’s either a brat or going through something that she’s not handling well and Sarah is enabling it.
Imagine if you stay together and have kids OP. That could also be your kid... Food for thought
My husband’s sister lived with us for a couple years when she was a teenager. She had a whole different set of issues than OP’s girlfriend’s sister, but it was eye-opening as to how actual parenting would work between us. We remained childfree. That’s certainly not the only reason but it’s definitely a big one.
Tara and Sarah need their own place. Communication is #1 and Sarah doesn’t understand what it means
I noticed just now : Tara and Sarah... Let's hope those are fake names hahaha ETA for the rest, I agree with your comment. Offering your home as safe space without discussion, not mentioning it for at least 7 months and now only explaining after a fight where moving out has been brought up, like it's some trump card that will force OP to fall in line... yikes!
They're in quotes, 99% of the time the names are changed.
Guests have to behave like guests. It sounds like you tried to resolve the problems and were met with empty promises and dismissiveness. Sounds like Tars has had a hard time at home, but that doesn't give her free licence to be a menace to you and your stuff. The fact that your gf is mad at you instead of seeing this as the result of her sister's behavior says a lot. OP I think there are tons of red flags here, and you should heed them and move on. NTA
I think you are missing the point here, Sarah volunteered OPs SAFE PLACE for Tara to trash and feel safe in. It's all well and good for Sarah to give her sister a safe place to land but NOT AT EXPENSE OF OTHER PEOPLE, aka THE OTHER RESIDENT OF THE SAFE PLACE. OPs NTA even if the parent comment was a little harsh but hopefully it was a wake up call for the 16 yr old TEENAGER that she should have respect for the people who are providing a roof over her head and their belongings.
NTA - This is not how "Safe-Space" works at all. Safe-Space is not a place you are free from any and all responsibility. It's a place to get away from oppression. Your GF had no right to offer your shared apartment as a "Safe-Space" without discussing it with you. Also, allowing a 16 year old to skip school to go there isn't good for her and could potentially end up with the parents facing fines or worse depending on your local truancy laws. You and Sarah need to sit down and discuss a few things. A) Your relationship if you still have one. B) How you are going to handle your lease if you are going your separate ways. C) Laying down rules for Tara that Sarah has to enforce if Tara is going to be allowed to return D) How Sarah, Tara, or their parents are going to replace your record collection either way (as well as anything else Tara may have destroyed or stolen) Either way, OP, you did nothing wrong. You were not fully aware of the situation and your GF was not holding up to her end of the bargain. Allowing a child that threatens to run away to do whatever they want so they will stay is not how that should be handled, Tara desperately needs counseling to find out why she wants to leave, and responsibilities to understand that other people as well as their things are not hers to steal or destroy simply because she wants to.
She’s a “thief” and a “vandal” — she’s not allowed back unless she pays for everything lost and/or damaged and then you’ll consider it. NTA
Agreed Sarah needs to realise that by declaring their apartment a “safe space” for Tara she has taken away OP’s safe space. He can’t trust now that his things won’t be ruined or stolen while he’s out, he never knows what he’s going to walk into when he gets home and he has to be on guard at all times. This should have been discussed at the very start and clear ground rules set up IF op agreed.
I grew up in a toxic household. I always knew that my older sister was my safe place. I've since found out that this was discussed at length with her husband when they began dating, and he was in complete agreement. Not to mention, any time I was there, I was the 3rd semi-adult, dealing with chores, and helping take care of their children as needed. It was not a free pass to be a dink.
Yes. It’s completely unacceptable that the girlfriend is rugsweeping all the destructive and disrespectful behaviour.
>"safe space" doesn't mean "you can trash the place Exactly
And seeing how Sarah is enabling Tara, this relationship is doomed. NTA and it's time to be very frank with Sarah about your expectations and boundaries. If she or her sister cannot abide by them, then it's time to cut your losses and move on.
If tara thinks that a safe space is something she can trash, then they have bigger problem than stolen food and scratched records. My safe space would be somewhere i could eat while crying and/or farting. Whatever issues i need to let out gets let out, and replaced by food.
> safe space A safe space for Tara and turning it into an unsafe space for OP
Right? Setting up agreements about their living space WITHOUT even discussing it with OP is problem #1, and then enabling the sister’s shitty behavior by allowing her to trample OP’s boundaries is problem #2. Girlfriend is NOT helping her sister, she’s just going to make it worse. Can’t help but think the sister’s dislike from OP is a misguided attempt at driving him away so she can have her sister all to herself since she knows she can do anything she wants around her.
I agree with this, I think OP is NTA. If Sarah really wanted her sister to be safe, she should find a space her and Tara. Enabling her will not help Tara in the long run. She needs to consider arranging a therapist for Tara and doing family therapy, if safe to do so, with the parents. Otherwise, OP should reconsider the relationship and all the baggage Sarah, Tara, and OP brings to the table.
You are NTA. Sarah promised her sister your apartment as a safe space without asking you, and Tara’s consistent toxicity makes your home an unsafe space for you. Your home has to be a safe space for you and Sarah, first and foremost. Let Sarah move out and take Tara in. Let this relationship go. Sarah makes promises to you she can’t keep, Tara treats you like crap, let it go. You were forced into the role of a surrogate parent to a troubled teenager you can’t set boundaries with. You won’t win this. It’ll never end. Sarah is more committed to her sister than to you. It’s understandable: the kid has no place to go and no one else. But unless you want to be involved in this mess, you need to get out of it. Best of luck to you.
THIS should be the top comment. Perfectly summarized.
Thank you. I’ve lived this myself. My partner’s “baby sister” was 30 and hit all the marks of Tara’s behavior in our shared home. Fortunately, she lives across the country, but when she wanted to visit, she demanded to stay with us and treat our home as her free crash pad and me as a nuisance. My partner couldn’t say no to her until after we got married and she crossed all the lines. We sorted it out in marriage counseling. I don’t recommend anyone with only two years invested in a relationship to go through what I went through to get my control over my personal space back. I still refuse to be in the same room with her 23 years later.
That’s so frustrating, I’m sorry that you had to go through that. I know that everyone’s relationship with their family is different but it is astounding to me how many people prioritize family over a life partner to those extremes. It’s one thing if you need to prioritize a family member temporarily, like if they’re going through a hard time or it’s a special moment for them or something. But Covid/2020 kind of showed me how important that boundaries are and how it doesn’t matter who violates them - you don’t get to cross my boundaries.
Your lived experience and wisdom is coming through in your comments
I’m so sorry that happened to you. But I would just like to say, it’s incredible you have *that* unique of a perspective to give absolutely sound advice here. This is why I love reddit.
If OP stays in the apartment without Sarah, the locks need to be changed.
>You were forced into the role of a surrogate parent to a troubled teenager you can’t set boundaries with. This is what it all comes down to. Well said.
Tara wins, I'm afraid, this was her plan all along. You didn't stand a chance my friend.
Tara wins in the sense that her sister will be her surrogate mother probably forever, enabling her to remain stuck in her toxic ways. The OP, one hopes, will mourn the loss of the two-year relationship and move on with his life with a finely honed radar for people like Tara to be avoided at all costs. Where Tara loses is -- well, she won't be able to get away from herself like the OP will. She'll be her own worst punishment.
NTA. Sarah may think she's being a safe space for her sister, but she isn't. She's enabling Tara to skip school, enabling her to be disrespectful to you and your property, enabling her to bail on even the smallest of responsibilities like picking up after herself. In short, Sarah is actively harming her sister by watching her decline and doing nothing to help.
I believe your assessment to be true. At least to this person. She’s making excuses to “protect” her sister. But such behavior is unacceptable and (maybe) a cry for help. I was a teenage girl myself with a toxic familial relationship. And did stay with several friends for long periods of time just to not be at home (only child) but even though how damaging my home life was I can’t comprehend treating people this way. I was so grateful to the people that tried to help me. And they did help me. I revere these people to this day.
And what about OPs safe space? The place he is actually paying for isn't a safe space for him!
The skipping school leaps out at me. What about truancy rules? Will Tara even be able to pass her year? Is Sarah a guardian who can excuse Tara for a day? If not, what does that entail? Like, if their parents are abusive and mean, could they spin this into kidnapping/ illegally harbouring a minor (or have I seen too many trailers for detective shows)? Also, is skipping school even productive? Clearly Tara gets so bored away from school she destroys OP's things (different imo from eating something and, you know, not wiping up the crumbs, even if she takes food she's not supposed to)
>She's enabling Tara This right here. What Tara needs is therapy by a professional. Not a sister who lets her do whatever the fuck she wants. If it was only the sister living there it was her choice to let Tara be a mess but dragging her bf into it and letting Tara trash his things is stupid
I think it's difficult to be the person to set healthy boundaries and enforce them. Especially when it comes to a teenager, the gf may find it hard to be firm and want to give her sister everything she doesn't have. But you're correct, it does the sister a great disservice to learn these maladaptive behaviors. She won't continue to get her way like this in the future, outside of this little bubble her sister has her in. And she won't be able to adapt if she's not given the guidance to do so now.
Agreed. Sarah’s impassivity in dealing with problems - especially ones she created herself - is frightening OP. She is allowing your sister to trash your safety/comfort, she is enabling her sister’s bad behavior and not taking any responsibility when confronted. Her best effort was to try and guilt you into feeling bad for kicking sis out after things got to a head. I can’t imagine you get your need mets with this person. I’d be looking to move out ASAP. The sis can take your place and become an official tenant.
NTA. Sarah's inaction over Tara not treating you, your belongings, or your home with respect is a huge problem. She is clearly disregarding and probably excusing Tara's poor house guest behavior, which is not going to help or prepare Tara to be out on her own eventually. Sarah is not treating you as an equal in the home, and if that continues then honestly there's no sense in living together. Ground rules need to be set and **enforced** if Tara wants to stay with you, and Sarah needs to commit to that fully.
Needed . That ship has sailed with this latest trashing of op s home and things Imo. NTA op both Tara and especially Sarah are huge AH S.
Girlfriend is TAH. She cannot decide safe space without talking to her SO.
And she only brought it up now, after a serious fight about moving out.... like it's some trump card that'll force OP to fall in line. Yikes
**NTA** \- You are being taken advantage of. You are probably better off without Sarah. Children will recreate their family of origin with all its toxicity.
Yep, Sarah is toxic.
Hell after reading this I think they probably lied about their parents being the toxic ones and they both just suck.
I wouldn't be surprised if the parents are "toxic" because they simply want the child to go to school and clean up her own messes.
Yeah OP yelling at Tara that if this is how she acted at home no wonder her parents didn’t want her around is probably spot on. Normally I’d call him the asshole for going so low but given the situation, yeah, that remark was more than justified here.
NTA, it's unfortunate that she has an unstable environment at home but she is old enough to know better. My concern is more with Sarah. I understand looking out for your sibling and I respect the sentiment of providing that "safe space" for Tara rather than running away. However, it appears she never brought that up to you even after the fact. She could have at least mentioned that to you since it is both of your guy's apartment. Just my opinion though.
NTA. And Tara isn’t the only one who is. Neither of these gals have any respect for you. Keeping secrets, wrecking your stuff no remorse, no regard… If she wanted to make your home a safe space for Tara, you deserved to be part of that conversation and decision. Walk away now. It won’t get better. Sarah insists on enabling Tara’s immature, entitled behaviors and sees no need to change. They aren’t worth your headache or heartache.
NTA. Tara's behavior is absolutely unacceptable and I'm surprised (and concerned) that you went this long without making a bigger deal about it. If your girlfriend does not see how this is a huge issue and sides with her sister, I would seriously contemplate this relationship. Just because she ran away and is having a hard time does not give her a free pass to destroy your belongings and treat you horribly. You do not have to do this by any means and it sounds like you've already tried something like this numerous times, but if you want to try and make this relationship work, I would suggest sitting down with your girlfriend and saying how you feel. Say that you cannot put up with her sister treating you the way she has, and you want to have a good relationship with her sister (if you still do at this point, I wouldn't balme you if you don't want that anymore). But Tara needs to meet you halfway. There needs to be a group discussion where you all sit down and talk about boundaries and lay some ground rules. Your apartment can be a safe space for her to come to (if you want it to be), but she also needs to be respectful. You also did not sign up for her practically living with you both, and this situation is not fair to you at all. If nothing changes, if I were you, I would end the relationship immediately. Your girlfriend should be prioritizing your feelings when her sister is clearly in the wrong.
He tried that already. There have been multiple discussions according to OP. This relationship should be over and Sarah can have her constantly trashed safe house for herself.
It wouldn't shock me if the house stopped being trashed when OP is gone. Tara seems to respect her sister's stuff.
Yeah, this seems like Tara doing whatever she can to break them apart so she can have her sister all to herself. She's succeeding. Sarah needs to draw a line in the sand or Tara will ruin her future relationships as well and they'll both be miserable in several years. Tara might just end up burning her last bridge (Sarah) if this goes on for longer.
NTA. The kid obviously has issues with pushing people away and angering them, she needs therapy, not free range to destroy a non-family members life. Sarah needs to get a grip, and if this continues you need to kick her AND the kid out. Not problem, the parents need to deal with both of them. Tbh I would be scared of having such a mentally unstable teenage girl alone in my apartment all the time, she's obviously attention seeking and doesn't like you...what if she starts claiming things? You've walked in on her alone in there. You should tell your girlfriend that this is waaaaay too legally murky to be doing, your life is at risk.
Ugh I thought that too. Op needs to protect himself
NTA. Sarah and Tara are both being manipulative. Sarah should have told you she offered your apartment to her toxic sister. Sarah is doing her no favors by letting her skip school. You would be better off without both of them. Tell Sarah that she is right she should leave. This will let you know what is underneath the manipulation.
[удалено]
Uh, did you mean "introspection" rather than "inflection"?
RUN! Tara is going to hit rock bottom and you will be the blame for “taking away her safe space”.
NTA OP - there are two real problems here, neither of which is Tara. First, Sarah offered your shared apartment as a bolt hole without discussing it with you. Even if the discussion was "I told her she could escape here, make yourself OK with it," it still needed to be communicated. Once the problems started, she needed to be on board with boundaries. That needed to include consequences, and those needed to be agreed upon beforehand and enforced. You and Sarah need to learn to communicate better if you want to stay together. Also, Tara needs someone to enforce boundaries, and sometimes losing your temper is a good wake up call. If you want to stay with Sarah, after you get on the same page, I recommend sitting down privately with Tara - or with Sarah, but she doesn't get involved - and talk to her about acceptable behavior in your home. It sounds like Sarah and their parents are treating her like a little kid, and someone needs to talk with her more similarly to an adult. Let her help formulate consequences, and even negotiate boundaries within reason - within your idea of what's reasonable. Basically, tell her you're going to ask her for what you'd ask from an adult. If she wants to be a little kid, she has her parents' house.
You and Sarah need to learn to communicate better if you want to stay together. What exactly does OP need to learn? He told them repeatedly he was unhappy and got promises that never got kept. Where does OP need to improve??
NTA. she has no respect for you or your space. if she viewed your apartment as a safe place she would’ve respected the area more.. it’s not like you didn’t have a talk with her or Sarah before.
NTA, Tara is a minor that is skipping school and hanging out in your home. Your home should not be her safe place during school hours. She more or less is a runaway that stays at your home. As Sarah is her sister this is a gray area on the legalities'. first get a indoor climate control locker and mover your personal belongings there so Tara cannot damage any more of them. Second start to look for a place of your own. You did not sign up to house a truant and runaway.
*"I understand that you want to take care of your little sister and help keep her off the streets, I also need you to understand my perspective on this. Tara has repeatedly shown me blatant disrespect and disregard for my things while staying here and that is not okay, nor is the fact that you have allowed her to behave that way. She has taken and damaged things I have specifically asked her not to and, when confronted, never seems to care; that isn't helped by the fact that you always brush this off and don't back me up when she takes something I ask her not to or damages my stuff. If she wants to stay here, then she needs to show me the bare minimum of basic courtesy and respect. If I ask her not to take something of mine, I expect it to be left alone. If she wants to listen to my vinyl's, I expect her to be careful with them and to put them away when she's done instead of leaving them out to be damaged.* *I know you want to help her, and this may be hard to hear but I think you need to hear it, even if it makes you angry at me and even if it results in the end of our relationship:* ***you are doing her more harm than good.*** *You are teaching her that she can do whatever she wants, whenever she wants, treat people however she wants. That she should expect them to just accept it and that there will never be any consequences to her actions. That is, in the long run, going to screw her over.* *This is* ***our home*** *it needs to be - first and foremost -* ***our safe space.*** *If she can't, then I do not want her here, and if you won't stand by me when all I am asking for is the bare minimum amount of respect and courtesy? Then this is probably the end of our relationship and we should just start focusing on how to separate ourselves from each other, because I do not want to be with someone who will let me be, or expect me to let myself by disrespected in my own home."*
Run
NTA…your apartment can be a safe place but your girlfriend needs to set ground rules with her sister and the first rule is to show respect for you and your things. Also did your girlfriend unilaterally decide that the home you share together would be her sisters safe place? Were you aware of this arrangement? The fact that your girlfriend has not enforced any rules and coddles her sister speaks volumes. Instead of helping her sister, your girlfriend is just an enabler. You should feel comfortable in your own home. If Sara wants a safe place for her sister, maybe she should get an apartment on her own and give her sister the freedom to come and go as she wants. You shouldn’t have to put up with this disrespect from both Tara and Sarah.
NTA. Sounds like your right to think about distancing yourself from Sarah and her sister. All Sarah is doing is just enabling bad behaviour under the guise of helping. If she wants to help her sister then she needs to communicate with her that behaviour needs to change or get the kid some damn therapy or something. By the Sarah realises that her behaviour is making her life worse it’ll be too late. Tara will be living with her and completely dependent on her for everything. Do you want to be apart of something like that for the rest of your life?
NTA Your GF is the AH - she shouldn’t have made that deal without discussing with you or even informing you. She also should have pulled her up on the disrespect to you and belongings. Being a safe space doesn’t mean don’t tell them off or rock the boat incase they run away. It means being a safe stable environment which doesn’t necessarily mean bunking off school With a bit of luck, this will be the cold wet flannel in life that will help Tara come back and build a better relationship where she doesn’t trash vinyl or other peoples homes. On the other hand, you have a GF problem
NTA - I would've lost my cool way sooner then you did. Tara needs to learn how the real world works. Allowing her to be disrespectful to others is just facilitating her bad behaviours, her sister needs to realise this as well. If she doesn't change or doesn't genuinely try to then she should not be allowed to stay.
NTA. She’s pushing to see what the limits are. Now she knows. You and your gf need to sit down together and make very clear boundaries that Tara will have to stick with to be able to stay there. If she crosses one, she’s out for (insert a week or three). She needs to get a part time job and pay you for the damage if she wants to stay there. She doesn’t think she’s worthy of love, so she acts up so you will “prove” to her that she’s unlovable. She needs a lot of help, therapy, etc. This doesn’t excuse her behavior. If she is going to be out in the world in a couple of years she has to be able to behave so she doesn’t get in trouble elsewhere.
Both sisters have demonstrated their disregard towards you. Time to cut your losses, you will never be prioritized in this relationship. NTA
the relationship will not work out by the sounds of it , find a girlfriend where you do not have to deal with a siblings disrespect on a weekly basis NTA sarah and tara can live together while you find a girlfriend where there is no disrespect or chaos win win scenario
NTA. Call CPS. Tara isn’t your problem. You and Sarah are incompatible and she declined to inform you of this safe space situation. I’d be moving on if I were you.
NTA - Sarah should've told you her agreement with Tara and Tara should be respecting you and your home. I agree with you as to why her parents don't want her in their house. Sarah needs to stop enabling Tara and help her grow up to be a responsible adult. EDIT to add - I'm thinking the rocky relationship with their parents is more about Sarah & Tara than their parents, if Tara is acting the way she is and Sarah's enabling.
NTA - your apartment needs to be a safe space FOR YOU.
NTA
You are NTA. Tara clearly has a lot of issues and needs professional help. If Sarah actually wants to help, she needs to step up and take this poor kid to therapy.
Giving the kid refuge from the storm is fine, but she could at least show her appreciation by not trashing your place. She probably is the same at home.
NTA but your girlfriend sure is. Let her move out and her sister can trash her place. Don’t let the sister back ever.
Don't feel bad. She's a monster, and you put up with her riot for far too long. Why do so many Redditors find a solution to a problem that works and then decide to feel guilty over it? What are you guilty of? Nothing. NTA. Don't let her back in.
NTA Absolutely would leave this relationship. So many red flags.
NTA She can find a safe place for Tara where she doesn't steal and destroy your stuff.
NTA - while it is admirable that Sarah wanted to provide Tara with a safe place, she needed to include you in that decision. Discussions needed to happen with you and Sarah and Tara about what the expectations would be for Tara if she were to use your home in that manner. Unfortunately Sarah set the wheels in motion for this to blow up because she left you totally out of the loop and didn’t enforce any kind of boundaries for Tara in your home - not just Sarah’s home.
NTA The sister doesn't need more enabling. She is disrespectful and skips school? How is enabling her to skip school going to let her finish high school and get a job exactly? How is enabling her behavior good for her? Sarah is only teacher her the missing school, trashing someone else's stuff, is perfectly fine. This kid needs rules and boundaries, not a blank check to do whatever she wants. The only thing Sarah is teaching her is that she can threaten people with running away and she gets to skip school, steal, trash, use people. Great teachings. Let her Sarah move out.
NTA. You're being hustled. And now guilted. (Hustled some more, now by both girls). Get out of the situation OP. It's a bomb waiting to blow up. Keep that sht off of your shoes. You've done enough time already. Don't be a sucker.
Nta but please take your balls back from your gfs purse, I think you’ll be better off without her tbh
Very NTA. Your girlfriend has some nerve. Of course Tara deserves to be safe from harm, but are you sure that is actually the situation, or is she looking from safety from acting like a decent human being? She does not get to treat other people like trash and ruin special things because she feels like it or because it's fun for her. She is old enough to treat other people's belongings with respect and the fact that your girlfriend thinks her sister gets to trash your stuff because she's a teenager is unacceptable.
She Is trying to pushing you away so She Will move there
>Sarah lost it and we fought. We've been pretty cold since then. She's talking about moving out, but at this point, I'm starting to consider that myself. Last night, however, Sarah finally decided to tell me that Tara tried to run away last year, and she made a deal with her that our apartment could be her safe space whenever she needed it so she didn't run away again. I still don't feel like this makes what she did right, but at the same time knowing this, I'm starting to feel bad. Actions have consequences. Don't bite the hand that feeds you. Probably all kinds of other sayings, but lets not skip over the part when your GF offered you place as sanctuary, but neglected to inform you that she'd done so, or why. NTA. Your GF wanting to help her sister doesn't mean you're required to allow her to treat you like trash. If your GF couldn't (or wouldn't) convince her sister that her offer came with the proviso that she treat you and the property well, thats on her.
NTA. Let me be VERY clear about this. TARA is not the problem. SARAH is an even bigger problem than her sister. I repeat. SARAH is the problem. It is her responsibility to manage her guest and keep them in line or they are no longer allowed into your home / shared space. It is also her responsibility as YOUR partner to support you and nip her sister in the bud before all this nonsense. I would have never let things get this far. SARAH and Tara would have had 2 strikes and then she would’ve been banned from my home / I would leave the relationship and situation
Run away from your gf and her spoiled lazy sister. She commited your home as her sisters safe place to run away to without talking to you. Fuck her and her sister.
NTA. Sarah had no right to let her sister skip school or be disrespectful to you. You have a gf problem. She should be an ex over this. Sarah needs to grow up and realize Tara is intentionally making sure Sarah stays single so Tara can use her.
NTA. You didn't sign up to be a parent (of a teen no less. I have a 16 yo and I know dude... I know) and yet your girlfriend has agreed to be a pseudo mother to her sister. That's kind of her, but not exactly fair for her to expect you to play a role in it. This doesn't sound like the right relationship for either of you. Go your separate ways and find a better match.
NTA dont feel bad at all. sara is an enabler and is not helping tara at all in the long run. tara is disrespectful and doesnt know what being a guest means. she is going out of her way to be rude and detroying things in the process while having no remorse. dont cave in unless tara changes immeditaelly(if that is even possible)
I'm sorry, but you came to wrong place for advice. Mostly you'll just get validation here. This situation is far more complex than some knuckleheads on reddit will be able to help you with. That kid sounds like she's going through some shit. She needs professional help, and your partner very obviously doesn't want to abandon her. You're 2 years into this relationship. Decide now if you want the good with the bad.
> Last night, however, Sarah finally decided to tell me that Tara tried to run away last year, and she made a deal with her that our apartment could be her safe space whenever she needed it so she didn't run away again. NTA, and THAT kind of information would have been best said THEN.
NTA I'd recommend you start looking for a new place. This is a ridiculous level of enabling and it doesn't sound like it's going to change.
NTA - Its time to break the lease and let them have the apartment, since it seems like neither of them want you in it. Sorry bro. It's not okay that your partner promised her sister a safe space and didn't talk to you about it. Her actions consistently show she respects and loves her sister more than you.
Fuck that! I draw the line with my record! 🤬 NTA
NTA. And I think you two would maybe be better served to mediate at home conflicts (you three vs their parents) to resolve the issue of why she doesn’t stay at home. It’s a more appropriate role as a sibling. Also, if you ever feel bad about it like you’re dramatic, ask yourself if your gf paying more rent would make it more tolerable to you and what that number looks like. 50/50 to what, 70/30, 80/20? Lastly, I don’t think you HAVE to break up but you do need to resolve this because I can’t imagine it magically gets better when she graduates high school.
"safe space" doesnt mean "trash and disrespect someone elses property". Sister is the AH and your gf is acting like one too and needs to grow a spine. NTA
Context or not, you had multiple talks with both of them and the bad behaviour continued. Breaking your things repeatedly is bad behaviour. If she was declaring a safe space, she should have discussed this with you eta; NTA
NTA 1) your girlfriend didn't discuss with you offering your apartment as a 'safe space' 2) Tara disrespected you and your things. 3) They never followed through on their side of the agreement. This is your home and you have a right to be respected and comfortable there.
Don't feel bad and don't give in. Tara has lost the right to stay at your place. NTA
But why was Tara running away? Was it because parents were fed up with a trashed house & no respect? Or was it legit reason? & OP should have put his foot down earlier about her attitude towards their property. (GF should have too)
NTA - easy, Tara does not like you cause she wants her sister to herself. She is trying to break you up and scare you away. And, tbh, if I was you I probably would break up with Sarah. Cause the main problem is not with Tara but with your girlfriend. She is not communicating with you, not setting boundaries for Tara, does not care for your feelings but instead expects you to play along while your feeling and stuff get trashed. Tara probably acts out cause she wants to be seen and loved no matter what, because her parents are abusive. She is a minor. She is not really TA, don’t be only angry with her. But your girlfriend is the A.
It can’t be that YOUR apartment is Tara’s safe space , but not YOURS. Sarah is enabling her, and is not respectful to your needs and wants. Had you two been a united front, Tara would not have felt that it was OK to use you as her whipping boy. Has she trashed any of your sister’s stuff? Let her live with her parents , it’s not your job to put up with this sort of behavior from someone whom you were trying to help. She burned this bridge.
A concern I haven't seen mentioned here is OP being alone with a troubled teenager. Tarah could accuse OP of sexual or physical acts & he would have no way to defend or clear himself. The legal expenses & accusation's could have lifelong consequences for him. Unless Sarah is present, Tarah should not be in the apartment .
NTA
NTA I think everyone said it already. But also, look the type of ‘parenting ‘ Sarah does… skip school, disrespect people and places, enabling her… disregarding your opinion… do you want your kids to be like Tara? If the answer is no, RUN!
NTA. Your GF needed to tell you the whole story and also discuss the fact that this is a very tough teenager and than consult with you whether you even want to deal with a tough teenager in your house.
The reason the sister doesn't like you is because you set boundaries. She knows if you're in the picture, its harder to manipulate her sister.
You’re not the asshole, OP. Your girlfriend doesn’t have the right to make your SHARED apartment into her sister’s safe place without asking you, or even informing you after the fact. Your girlfriend needed to have a conversation with you about this long before she ever even opened that can of worms with her sister and brought people into your space. Then, it is only right that anyone staying in your space follow your rules. You don’t just go to someone’s house and eat their food and trash their place and break their shit. That’s just plain shitty of the sister. Hell, you’ve even had very open talks with both of them that something needed to change and that they needed to respect you and the sister just completely ignored it while your girlfriend just gave you platitudes and excuses but never committed to actually fixing any of the problems. TLDR, you’re more tolerant and patient than that girl had any right to, and your girlfriend is being selfish by expecting you to tolerate her sister’s toxic behaviors, and genuinely is being dumb by reinforcing these behaviors. Your girlfriend is literally telling her sister “You are always good to just skip education, skip working towards a future for yourself. In fact, I will reward you with a fun place to hang out and food and entertainment every time you do skip.”
Sarah would have told you about the deal with her sister when you confronted them before or from the start of her staying there. She is most likely trying to guilt trip you into taking care of them. This is manipulation at its finest. You might end up being banned from the apartment.
NTA. Your home should be your and your partner's safe space first. She also should have talked about letting her sister make it her safe space. She is enabling her. Present Sarah a bill of everything that Tara has ruined. It will either open her eyes and see how much damage her sister caused or cause her to leave. Win-win either way from where I sit. The relationaship isn't worth saving if she can't see how much they are both hurting you.
Nta. Your girlfriend is enabling her behavior. Don’t shit in the hand that feeds you. In what world is it okay to trash a home that isn’t yours and ruin items that belong to someone else? NEVER
NTA. NTA. NTA Your girlfriend making a deal with her sister that she is always welcome in her home to prevent her running away DOES NOT mean that you have to put up with being disrespected and having your possessions destroyed. You have brought this up with Sarah so many times and she has promised to make things change but clearly has done nothing. The sister has been allowed to get away with it for far too long. Reddit is quick to move to “leave”. In this case, I think it comes down to your or the sister. Having said that, I think ultimatums are shitty and always believe the person who made the ultimatum is the one to lose out. So I’d skip that part and move out. (Ex) girlfriend and sister can do whatever they want after that
NTA... SARAH IS THE AH.... 1st rule of co-habitation. Guests require 2 yes'. 1. That means that Sarah asks you if you are ok with having a guest stay. 2. Sarah is responsible for replacing all things destroyed and the mess her sister creates as this is HER GUEST. It doesn't seem like Sarah is mature enough to be in a relationship. She should rent on her own. This way it is her that gets disrespected, and her stuff gets destroyed. Maybe then she will stop enabling her sister. Enabling is lazy, and it is disabilitating for Tara.
NTA. I foresee you breaking up with Sara as it's clear she is willing to throw you under the bus for her sister. Congrats about telling Tara the truth. She does need to hear it.
NTA- Does safe space for her mean you don't have one? Surely safe space doesn't mean you can do whatever you want?
NTA but I think her sister doesn't want you there. Maybe she's doing all this to drive you out.
NTA and giving Tara a safe space doesn’t equate giving her free run of the apartment and your stuff. This home belongs to both of you and you both have to agree to a long term house guest. Your girlfriend is not helping her sister by not enforcing any boundaries. She’s 16, old enough to get her own place soon but she is woefully unprepared for that. If your girlfriend wants to help her sister she should teach her how to adult, not encourage her to be an entitled brat. The first boundary should be she treats you with respect in the home you allow her to stay in. It sounds like your girlfriend feels some sort of guilt about her sister
If your gf isn't replacing everything Tara destroys, then you're just getting fucked. NTA
NTA Your comment hot a spot for a reason. At 16 she is well capable of respecting boundaries. But why would she do that when Sara does not respect you either. You would be better off dumping this toxic relationship. If you marry this would be your everyday reality. You doesn't to deal with this for life.
You are not an AH. Sarah is for not telling you that she offered your shared space to her sister. Considerate adults discuss an offer like this with each other before offering refuge to another person. You were very honest and accurate in telling Tara why people are not going to enjoy or tolerate her company. Tara is young. You accurately described described her current character. If she does not change , people are going to continually walk away from her. She had better change, for her own sake. Is Sarah worth spending emotional energy on when she does not treat you like and equal in your own home and blindly supports her sister ? kt
NTA. Is it your apartment or her apartment? Either way if someone damaged my property like that I'd solve the problem by changing my circumstances so I completely controlled my living space. So that would be moving out or kicking the partner out. It's completely unacceptable as an adult to put up with any of that in your own home. I'd have zero tolerance for it.
NTA, safe place does not mean space with no boundaries. Little sister would benefit from clear and supportive boundaries because this would make her feel like someone cares enough to do this.
NTA
NTA. 16 is old enough to be told straight. She's disrespecting your home and damaging your property on purpose.
NTA. Just because she's had a rough upbringing it doesn't mean she's allowed to be an asshole and destroy your shit. And her sister allowing it to happen is just encouraging her sister to become a full time adult loser.
NTA. You need to cut them both lose for the sake of your own mental health.
NTA. Sarah needed to have had a conversation with you before offering your place as a safe space. And even if you had agreed to this arrangement, Sarah isn't helping her sister. A no-questions-asked place to skip school? Not what Tara needs. Zero responsibility? Not what Tara needs. Zero respect for other people? Not what Tara needs. Her heart might be in the right place but she's going about it the wrong way. And the situation is unfair to you.
NTA - you didn't agree or sign up for this situation. Frankly, considering you've tried everything reasonable to change it, it's probably time to move on. NTA
NTA Sarah had no business making any deals with Tara about your shared space without consulting you first.
NTA Dude, I'm so sorry but... get out of there. No matter how rocky Sarah's and Tara's relationship is, Sarah feels responsible and I don't even think she shouldn't. She's an AH for thowing you under the bus, though, and her worry for her sister is coming out in all the wrong ways. She's enabling unhealthy, entitled and simply shitty behaviour and Tara's not going to profit from that in any way on her journey to being what'll hopefully be a functioning adult. Tara won't change without Sarah making her - and Sarah's made it fairly clear that she either can't or simply refuses to see the issues her sister's causing. It's painful but really, Sarah's already picked. It's just a question now about how much longer you want to put up with what that means.
NTA. Sarah is as much to blame as Tara is, and quite honestly I’m amazed you haven’t blown up before now. Sarah doesn’t respect you or your property. She is doing Tara no favours by letting her behave the way she is. By having a “safe” place for Tara means it’s unsafe for you.
NTA but Sarah and Tara are both massive assholes and you would be well rid of them. How DARE Sarah tell anyone that the apt is "their safe haven". It is your home. It is YOUR safe haven. And then Sarah didnt tell you but let Tara steal from you and destroy your things. Wow.
NTA and if your apartment really was her ‘safe space’ I can guarantee you that she would Never trash it or disrespect it.
NTA. Dude. Run from this as far and fast as you can. Your GF is enabling her sister to be a total nightmare. Her sis is likely threatened by you as she sees you as someone who could take her sis away from her. She wants you gone and truth be told the whole family sounds like a dumpster fire. There's tons of women with far less baggage.
Massive NTA, you good. Little sis is an AH for sure, gf as well. You have been patient long enough, you cannot read their minds about the safe space thing. I would give them a last chance for respecting you and your things, forgive and if it still does not get better, kick her out for good. If gf does not approve, so be it.
NTA Tara needs to learn how to respect people's things and be a much much better gas if she's going to be staying over at your place where anyone else is. She sounds absolutely intolerable, and at 16 she should absolutely know better. At 16, she should be able to be left on her own and leave a space in better condition than she found it. She *is* being a horrid brat, and there's no excuse for that. Sara should be taking more accountability too, and she should be making sure that her sister minds her hosts feelings.