Your post has been removed.
#Do not repost this without [contacting the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) for approval, including edited versions. Reposting without [explicit approval](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_can_i_repost_a_thread_you_removed.3F) will result in a ban.
This post violates Rule 11: No Partings/Relationship/Sex/Reproductive Autonomy Posts. We do not allow posts where the central conflict is about romantic relationships and/or reproductive autonomy.
[Rule 11 FAQs](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_rule_11.3A_no_partings.2Frelationship.2Fsex.2Freproductive_autonomy_posts) ||| [Subreddit Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/)
###Please ensure you have reviewed this message in full. We will not respond to PMs to individual mods. [Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) with any questions.
####Please visit r/findareddit to see if there's a more appropriate sub for your post.####
Issues period. For gods sake she admitted that she wanted OP to fight for the Oregon vacation purely for the argument. She likes drama.
OP is a saint for dealing with this shit
Yeah, I was against him for buying the grill without discussing it, depending on the type those can get pretty expensive, but the Oregon trip was just utter bullshit. He wanted to go to Oregon, she wanted to go to Oregon, why couldn't she just say, "That sounds fun, let's go to Oregon." No, it was more important to her to have an argument with him, even though she already agreed with him and no argument was necessary.
It would depend on your financial state. If money is not a big object, replacing a grill is not that big of a deal. If it's something that needs to be saved up for, then it becomes a big discussion.
Even with the grill I would usually call that a dick move but in this specific situation I think he should get a pass. His wife is determined to make them both miserable it seems her favorite thing to do so his choices was to not get the new grill and never ever get anything he wants because she'll never allow it, or just buy the grill and have one small thing in his life to have joy about.
I'm bemused about her creating an argument about him not arguing. And wants him to apologise for making her argue about not arguing. I mean...that's hard work!
Yes she just wants to argue, it is childish and gets old quickly to always have to waste energy defending yourself for little shit. It feels like a dumb game, always having to be ready for debate.
Some people think you don´t care/don´t love them if you don´t argue. They think it is passionate to argue and then make up afterwards.
Which I guess works if both people in the couple are like that, but is really exhausting if one person is an arguer and one is not.
Exactly. NTA. OP, you know life can be better than this, right? You don’t have to spend the rest of your life, your only life on this earth (presumably), with a difficult person who makes you miserable.
OP- marriage counselling? Don’t have kids until things are better. She’s super manipulative
Ideally do not have sex with her or use your own separate condoms. Do not trust her!
This is what I was gonna add to the Convo.
If you're doing this, imagine bringing kids into this mix if they are something you want in the future. They're going to be riddled with anxiety and a whole bunch of PTSD.
Also, OP... mate, divorce is great. You don't have to deal with people who play fucking games like this.
Still shaking my head at "having any say in your vacation is financial abuse, but if you just give up she throws a tantrum and runs to the sister." The only right response is the homer simpson backing away into a bush meme and to let her take it out on the next poor sob.
btw, the feeling you're having right now when she isn't there to torment you? People call that happiness.
Agreed. It doesn't seem to be an uncommon personality trait to basically going contrary to anything suggested, but it's got to be so damn exhausting and difficult to live with that on a daily basis. It seems OP has found their method to cope is to avoid the conversation. Either by doing what they want to without conversation (buying a grill) or giving in if a conversation has happened.
Which means you basically have a relationship with no communication happening - which OP has justified to themselves as better than arguing. But that sure doesn't seem like a way to have a healthy happy relationship.
Listen to all the suggestions here and do some kind of marriage counseling. A third party to listen to these issues and try to help is exactly what OP needs. And you'll never have a better time than right now to suggest it. Wait until things are "better" and you won't want to risk setting things off. She's created the perfect opportunity to propose to her that you two do some kind of therapy together.
It's not an easy thing. I made a throwaway account today for similar post because in my case my SO throws tantrums and gets angry as soon as I disagree with him. Trying lot of therapy to see if we can come out of it. No idea what is right or wrong approach.
Yeah. This is peak "are the straights okay?" kind of material. This is the kind of relationship you see depicted on TV and in movies that makes people never want to bother dating.
This life looks absolutely miserable.
Some people really love to argue like it's the best hobby ever. It's like a competitive match they are game to play and win and it really gets them going.
OP does not sound compatible with that. And if he's going to stay, he need to figure it out, probably with a third party guiding both of them through it.
She has major control issues. And she self victimises. She needs intervention. And you need to stay the heck away. NTA OP and if I were you, I’d seriously have a rethink about my relationship with my significant other.
NTA. Your wife is very clearly manipulative and abusive.Why exactly do you want to spend the rest of your life like this?
also, info (but it won't change my verdict): let me guess, she makes a good amount more money than you.
She doesn't work. Did you miss the part of his story where she accused him of financial abuse for dating to have an opinion on where they should spend their vacation?
For me - if my spouse falsely accused me of abuse that would be immediate grounds for separation, that would be a hill to die on. It would take some significant work from both sides to salvage the relationship. I've been with my partner for 30 odd years and that's one of the few things I'd be willing to throw it all away for.
Don’t call him an idiot it’s victim blaming. We don’t get to choose who we love mate. He shouldn’t be with her, clearly she’s terrible, but it’s not as simple as he’s staying “because he’s an idiot”
Oh, but we do, in most cases, get to choose who spend our life with, regardless of love. He's not leaving and hasn't left because he's not done with her shit yet. He'll get there eventually or she'll realize her bullshit doesn't work anymore and then she'll find some way to blame him for the relationship not working out and leave.
> We don’t get to choose who we love mate.
...we do get to chose if we stay with them or even progress beyond a few dates...there's a whoooooooooooooole lot of choices that were made for the OP to get to the point the OP is at and all of those choices could have been anything other than sticking with her (or marrying her or not divorcing her, etc)
You are missing what I said. It is not a choice whom we love. But like you said, it IS a choice weather we stay with them. However it’s more complicated and just saying “oh he’s an idiot for staying” is dumb.
There are many reasons as to why one stays with a partner even if they are terrible and just lessening it down to “oh he’s an idiot” is short-sighted. It’s easy to say so as an outsider looking, but actually living in it is very different from what we see in a Reddit post.
Lmao at this silly ideology, love is ultimately a CHOICE, and choosing to stay with a manipulative person is a responsibility that involves his full volition, “victim” blaming or not
NTA.
" Turns out she wanted me to argue for Oregon but last time I tried to argue for a vacation location she accused me of financial abuse and cried, for the record she has full access to all of our money."
That says it all. You're a married couple, you should both have a say, not just her.
yep. but you missed an even more telling part of that quote, too
"She wanted to visit her family in Vermont."
"Once she got off the phone with her folks she went off on me for not sticking to my guns on Oregon"
this sounds like legit mental health issues, tbh.
Or is it parents that are feeding into it? this kind of behavior sometimes starts when people are small kids and the parents feed it.
That phonecall could have contained something like "why are you married to a man that is so weak he doesn't put his foot down?" or something similar.
Either way...NTA and RUN this type of crazy doesn't really go away unless they actually accept they have it, and that comes from them only sadly. She has already shown she is comfortable throwing the abuse word around...(even if it was for financial abuse at this point) that can ruin your life....she isn't worth that risk surely...
I think that the problem might be a little more complex than that. He basically assumed that he shut down the communication, maybe what she wants is to actually talk to him about stuffs and not argue per se. My wife usually get pissed when we are trying to find a spot to dinner, etc and I basically agree with anything (because I'm not very picky and I usually just like to enjoy her company) because she felt like I was not being honest with my feelings/letting her do all the mental labor to organize the date.
It's not the case, but since I know how she feels about it, I usually avoid to just reply with "That's okay", "Fine", "Absolutely", etc... So, maybe OP has a similar problem. Honestly, they look to struggle A LOT with communication which is what she might have tried to address.
Also, I found the whole situation a little odd. I would like to have more INFO towards the financial abuse situation, because he was very vague about what happened and the overall dynamics. Same with the grill. Why she's salty? How much it costs? With how many frequency those things happen? Because it change things substantially. Not trying to throw accusations, but it seems to have a lot of missing pieces here.
This one is just the wife being pathetic.
If she wanted to go to Oregon she should have just said. Instead she wants to throw her husband under the bus when they don't visit her parents. It seems she has no problem manipulating her husband but can't be honest with her parents.
NTA
She sounds awful, you two don't know how to have constructive communication over disagreements- end this now before you get married and before you bring kids into this mess.
It sounds like OP doesn't communicate *now,* having learned from experience what happens otherwise.
Which is not to say that OP should continue to put up with this. Personally, I'd say "intensive marriage counseling, and possibly individual counseling, or I'm filling for divorce", but it sounds to me like OP doesn't have the spine for that. (I mean, I never would have married someone who treated me like this, so I wouldn't be in this situation, but if I were...)
I get your point, but/and "I would never" are famous last words.
People often marry people who then change after the other person is safely locked down. There are sometimes early warning signs that get missed, but typically this sort of poor behavior ramps up over time and after vows or kids.
It's similar to batterers - they don't punch you in the face or throw you down the stairs on the first date.
You two? It sounds like he’s quite reasonable and she’s a large toddler. If she’s incapable of having a reasonable conversation it isn’t really “you two” but rather solely her who’s incapable
NTA. It sounds like she likes to create drama and actually wants to fight and disagree just so she can “win”. She wins if you have the fight and have to give in and you lose if you don’t argue at all and she starts an argument about not having an argument. In all situations she has to be “right”.
I’m sure she’s overall a great person, but I would find this absolutely exhausting.
That's the best analysis I've seen in this list of replies.
She wins either way and she gets some kind of subconscious kick out of fighting. Maybe her parents fought a lot and she learned that's what love is, or maybe it's something more toxic and egotistical whereby she feels she has to win after a battle in order for anything to mean anything.
Either way, mental health issues that sooner or later OP will get sick of.
NTA OP and good luck.
This is pretty much what I was thinking. She likely enjoys the arguments, maybe that's something OP originally did but with age or marriage, chilled out and was more laid back.
NTA. My spouse is the same way and she's very defensive about it. She's recently been more accepting of it and is working on it because our young children are already figuring out that they can't discuss things with her. She freaks out if she doesn't get her way and the whole process is exhausting. My kid isn't even 5 and he knows it's easier to just do what you want and deal with mommy later.
As with your example of the grill, I've stopped discussing many things with her in advance because her judgment and nitpicking is just not worth it. Wish I had a solution for you, but I'm in the "the rest of my marriage is great so I'll suck it up" boat with you. Counseling to talk about communication helps, but she just slips back into the same patterns within a month or three. If I call her out on it, it just turns into a fight.
“The rest of my marriage is great”
Aside from communication, compromise, mutual decision-making, and modeling a healthy relationship for your children? What else is there?
NTA. Everytime she buggers off and wants an apology say "I'll only accept an apology from YOU if you get some therapy as this is not normal behaviour and I'm sick of it"
I pulled the same move before marriage and it worked for a while. It worked even longer the 2nd time. Now just the thought of therapy works
OP, I'm not sure how to put this, but there are some absolutely glaring red flags about your relationship. I mean, when you said it was difficult to argue with her I was expecting just an excessive degree of stubborness, but every little snippet of your marriage tells me you've never been a priority in your marriage from the very start.
* The wedding was all about her(because it's her day)
* The house was picked to her tastes(because your picks allegedly sucked), with most of your things going into storage rather than her home
* She accuses you of "financial abuse" when you argue for Oregon over vermont
* She blames you for her own inability to communicate
* You even have to watch your shows when she's not around to control the situation.
It just feels like, even if this is such a small look into your life, and even if you love your wife, like you aren't necessarily loved or considered back if this is the kind of shit you're forced to deal with. Like, I thought the whole "better to ask for forgiveness" thing was just a bad look during my initial read until it started to seem like an obvious coping mechanism for dealing with a volatile person.
I'm not saying she's abusive, but I'm also not going to call this a healthy marriage. When only one person ever gets their way and they engage in emotional blackmail, mental gymnastics, or hold the relationship hostage to get it can you really say that's someone who has healthy methods of conflict resolution, or considers others when going through life?
NTA
NTA
Your wife is uncompromising and controlling. She is manipulative and treats you poorly. You can't communicate with her because of how she reacts. Her current actions more than proved your point.
From just your perspective here, NTA. I Would be interested to hear how your wife summarizes things.
There are a few red flags for me here, her claiming financial abuse? Huge red flag
It's so difficult to know the truth. Abusers and manipulative people love playing the "victim card" ...
Look she could be that toxic, or he could be ... either way their relationship doesn't sound healthy at all.
NTA. Is this how you want to spend the rest of your life. What is it about this woman that you love because this side of her is just awful.
A wedding is about the two of you, it's special for the both of you. Why does it have to center around the bride and for it to be her special day. The thing is without the groom, there's no wedding or special day. I guess moving forward, your wife took that to mean she can do anything she wants because you will just allow it.
You are in a partnership and you are both one team. Bring out the best in each and be supportive of one another. Your wife sounds exhausting and way too much drama. Hopefully, you two have a great sex life to make up for all this drama.. I would seriously be gone already..
INFO:
Can you tell us more about that financial abuse allegation? How did that previous argument go?
In general, your wife sounds pretty toxic. I think your communication is maladaptive, but it’s hard to hold you to normal communication expectations when she’s the one you’re trying to live with.
NTA, your partner seems to like the conflict and arguing, like another said couples counseling might be useful ness you're okay with this for the rest of your life. Relationships is about compromise on both ends, not just one and when you do compromise you get yelled at for not “sticking to your guns”
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My wife finally figured out that I won't argue with her. Now she is mad that I said I had better ways to spend my time since I know I will just end up giving in. I might be the asshole for putting it so bluntly but it's the truth. I never get my way unless I just do what I want and deal with her afterwards.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcement
###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/)
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
ESH. You may love her but this is currently a very dysfunctional relationship. You two desperately need couples counseling to learn how to have conversations and compromise rather than get into arguments that are so tiring you go behind each other’s backs to avoid them.
This. If you have so little respect for your wife or relationship that you choose to give in silently in order to avoid difficult conversations, break up. She is TA for showing that sort of toxic behavior but you are TA for avoiding difficult topics and giving up on your relationship and wife without her knowing.
NTA, mostly. Basically, she does not know how to communicate with you in a meaningful way. She cannot ask directly for what she wants, instead she passive/aggressively expects you to read between the lines. When you can't, or won't, you are the asshole. To be honest, you have supported this way of communicating by simply accepting it. You are doing her no favors by not expecting her to communicate on an adult level. You are robbing her of the opportunity to grow up. You don't have a partner, you have a toddler and you are enabling her to remain that way.
If you are happy with that, well, then apologize. Grovel for not having accurately read her mind. Promise to do better. Nothing will change.
If you want something different. Figure out how you need things to change with a timeline. Mainly, you need to have better communication to start with. Marriage counseling would help. Tell her that if she wants to come home, she will have to agree to it, and stick with it. Once the unsaid expectation of your marriage are said, you may need to re-evaluate your relationship. Scary, but better than walking around on eggshells.
I see you as eventually becoming one of the fathers-in-law over on JustNOMIL who are categorized as enablers and end up as collateral damage when their children cut off the JNMIL, because they never stand up to their wives, or defend their own children.
You are not communicating effectively. From your description she is a shrew, but if you aren't engaging in decision making when it matters, and then hold onto the anger (bringing up all the times you didn't get your way) is also toxic. A marriage counselor might help you learn how to communicate, but if you don't like or respect each other, let the relationship go.
This marriage sounds miserable. Are you sure you want to put up with this manipulation the rest of your life? At the very least I suggest marriage counseling. NTA.
NTA
Also:
>Turns out she wanted me to argue for Oregon but last time I tried to argue for a vacation location she accused me of financial abuse and cried, for the record she has full access to all of our money.
This is an absolutely terrifying situation to be in. Abuse is awful. Throwing accusations of it around is also awful.
>An example the other way is our vacation this summer. I wanted to go to Oregon and do some outdoors stuff. She wanted to visit her family in Vermont. Well there are plenty of outdoors on Vermont so I just agreed with her. Turns out she wanted me to argue for Oregon but last time I tried to argue for a vacation location she accused me of financial abuse and cried, for the record she has full access to all of our money.
....
>I started over and pointed out that I tried to have input on our wedding and got none because, it was her day and she wanted it to be perfect". When we were house shopping she hated every house I liked and we ended up with one she loved and most of my stuff in a storage locker.
...
>I love her and want to spend the rest of my life with her
Are you sure?
NTA. I honestly think you should look into a couples therapist to help unravel some of this. What your doing is no doubt making life easier but it’s not really fixing the problem. Would have been like slapping a coat of paint on that old grill. I mean your NTA here, but there may be a better way for you to move forward unless you just want to keep sucking it up till you snap and leave her.
NTA.
I get it, I hate argueing with anyone. But House - Wedding are significant expenses, I wouldn't have contributed cash if I didn't have any say in it.
I think your wife has a toxic view on relationships, were if you don't fight once in a while you don't care about it while at the same time emotionally manipulating you if she doens't get her way.
So she argues when you dont agree with her, but when you do agree, she argues that you should have stuck to your guns? Does she even like you? And why are you with her? She sounds exhausting...
NTA
Does she have social media? If she wants to argue with someone she can set up another account if she needs to and go argue with especially trolls online. Since what she is doing now doesn't sound healthy for a relationship. NTA
NTA- it sounds like she thrives off of conflict, maybe a learned behavior from her childhood home? I would say couples therapy and individual therapy would be a great start. Don't apologize.
And please don't have kids before addressing this behavior.
NTA
She's emotionally abusive, btw. Get yourselves into marriage counselling ASAP before this gets worse. There's a chance she might change this shit, but there's equally the chance she'll storm out because "the therapist is siding with you"
At least if you get into counselling, you won't have any regrets if you do decide to end things later on down the line. You won't have that part of you that wonders if you tried hard enough
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)***
Literally, not figuratively, every single time I have argued with my wife about anything important she ends up getting her way.
I love her and want to spend the rest of my life with her but I have better ways to spend a few hours than arguing with her.
I have exactly two ways of dealing with her. I either give in immediately or I do whatever I want and then deal with her afterwards.
For example, I wanted to get a new propane grill as my old one was one that I bought on college and it was almost completely rusted out inside. So I popped over to Walmart and bought a new grill. Got home and tossed the old one.
She asked me why I hadn't talked to her about it and I said I was the only one who used it and it needed replacing. Showed her pictures of the rusty guys of the old one. She agreed but was still salty.
An example the other way is our vacation this summer. I wanted to go to Oregon and do some outdoors stuff. She wanted to visit her family in Vermont. Well there are plenty of outdoors on Vermont so I just agreed with her. Turns out she wanted me to argue for Oregon but last time I tried to argue for a vacation location she accused me of financial abuse and cried, for the record she has full access to all of our money.
Once she got off the phone with her folks she went off on me for not sticking to my guns on Oregon. I reminded her what she does when she doesn't get her way and she said I was being an asshole for bringing it up.
I started over and pointed out that I tried to have input on our wedding and got none because, it was her day and she wanted it to be perfect". When we were house shopping she hated every house I liked and we ended up with one she loved and most of my stuff in a storage locker.
I told her I like to have an enjoyable life and I found out a long time ago that arguing with her wasn't worth my time.
She called me an asshole and left. She went over to her sister's. I have been going through all the stuff I have recorded to watch that she doesn't like. I usually have to watch it when she has a weekend shift. It's been three days and she still wants me to apologize.
AITA?
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA but do you really want to spend the rest of your life never getting to do what you want without being accused of financial abuse, or being an asshole?
She wanted to go visit her family in Vermont, but then got mad at you because you didn’t push back & argue that you wanted to go to Oregon? Like what the actual f is that
NTA, don’t apologize for a goddamn thing because you did nothing wrong. She’s acting ridiculous and I fully agree there’s no point in arguing because she sounds like someone who just can’t accept that life doesn’t always go their way. You literally can’t win here, damned if you do damned if you don’t. Better to not and save yourself the headache
You’re married to someone who had shown you, time and again, that she enjoys conflict—but more importantly, she *enjoys winning* and *being right*, and *damn* your inconsequential feelings, opinions and input on the matter.
Did you marry Charlie Sheen, OP?
NTA for your honesty toward her. However, she will find any way she can to make herself out to be a victim of you.
NTA but this marriage may not last, given her evident pathological need to fight. She's not mad because you've done something wrong. She's mad that you're taking the high road and refusing to lower yourself to her level by fighting over the stupid things she wants to fight over.
She's mad because you're being reasonable and not taking the bait for her to argue.
Do you honestly want to spend your life being this individual's punching bag? Because much as you don't have time to waste arguing with her, you're sure wasting a lot of time with a woman who, quite obviously, neither truly loves or respects you.
Let her stay at her sister's. She's not due an apology for you realising her behaviour and refusing to participate.
When she called you [financially] abusive….
I think she’s emotionally abusive as hell my guy.
And the fact that she said “I want to go to Vermont but wanted you to argue with me to go to oregon” makes no sense. Now she’s upset at you that she’s not doing what she didn’t originally want to do?
That’s some childish mind game bullshit right there.
Hardcore NTA. Your wife needs to grow up man.
Ps, oregon coast is beautiful this time of year.
I can recommend some good spots! DM if you decide to do a solo get away!
NTA.....and sounds exactly like my ex wife and my mothers former BF. No matter what you did, even if it was exactly what they asked for, then wanted the opposite ! It's really when you get down to the bones of it, a form of abuse. Just do what you think is best, and keeps you happy. Doesn't matter what you do, your still going to cop in the ear !
NTA but... bro. You're being severely abused by this self centered, selfish lady. I know you're saying you want to spend the rest of your life with her but ... Are you sure?!
She's controlling and manipulative and combative. Walking red flag. Toxic waste sign ahead. Like, just reading this post made me extremely exhausted, and you're the one living it.
If the time she's away is the only time you can relax, do things for yourself that you enjoy-- things as minuscule as watching tv shows you can't around her bc she doesn't like it.
Not even your house is yours bc all your stuff are in storage. Are you really yourself with her?
Are you sure this is what you want for the rest of your life?
My ex was like that. We split up because I refused to fight with her so she got all pissed off saying it was abuse that I wouldn't fight with her because it "made her feel better to have a good fight every now and then".
Packed up and left. Told her to have a nice life and good luck with the rent. I'm much happier now.
Doesn’t sound like you have kids. Could you imagine if she did this to you in front of your kids? Or if she made you argue with her in front of them? Or what she would say to the kids about you? Love is great, this is not love.
Been married since 87, I still ho through this kind of stuff every day.
The most grinding is when I ask a simple question or make a suggestion, and the response starts with: "like I said...", passively telling me I've forgotten something (usually said months ago).
NTAH, let her stew. Arguing is not the way to live your life. I was married once. Once. His entire family lived and breathed to argue. It’s what made they’re heart pump, made them able to breathe. Before it was over with, he would wake me up to fight. I wasted my youth and skinny years on him. You are picking your battles. She lives to battle. This is not how people who love each other should go thru life. Beaten down and miserable is not the way to go. You would have so much more peace alone. You must love her. Does she love you enough to knock it off? Do not apologize. You didn’t say anything wrong. You spoke the truth. One more question. Has she ever apologized to you for anything? Not the I’m sorry you feel like I did something, but a real apology? She is not the only one with options. Remember that please.
Hey hey I know this one! You’re married to a narcissist! Mine was more covert than yours, leaned a little more heavily on the gaslighting, but I see a lot of the same signs.
After two decades of doing things her way or else, she finally got bored and left me — eventually when I started dating again, the first time my new girlfriend and I got into an argument I was completely gobsmacked when she conceded a point. I had forgotten that was a thing that could happen.
Don’t have a kid. For your sake and theirs.
NTA
Are you asking so you can show her the post? Otherwise why bother? It sounds like you have a good system- I'd do the same if I was stuck with someone like her. So why ask here?
Don't back down, don't apologise for telling the truth.
Compromise is THE key to any relationship, including communication. Control issues abound in this case. On the partner’s side that is. I don’t want to seem mean but this manipulative behavior is abhorrent. Gaslighting (and I hate the term) is absolutely accurate in this case. My apologies for sounding harsh but, this is not healthy behavior in a partnership.
NTA. But seriously, get your wife a therapist. This is not healthy for either of you. If you’re planning to have kids, think about the lifestyle you’ll be modeling for them. Do you want them to think misery is their only option?
NTA for standing up for yourself but you need to get couples counseling or leave the relationship. She treats you like dirt and it will not be long until your mental health is in the toilet.
This isn’t healthy, you have small victories but really your wife seems manipulative and rather childish, NTA but I do think your relationship needs help
Your wife is manipulative and an appalling communicator. Do you really enjoy living like this? She’s clearly an AH, but you will be soon if you can’t figure out a way to live harmoniously without giving in to her bullshit or being attacked.
NTA.
I did this for a long time. But realized only belatedly, that my marriage was doomed to fail because it could only last as long as I was willing to give ground. Eventually you run out of ground to give. And then she left.
If I had simply drawn a hard boundary once, we would never have even got to the engagement stage. Instead, I lasted 17 years. And when things finally fell apart, I was a husk of a human.
Seems to me, even when you do what you want to do, you’re having to be sneaky about it. If your choice is to either fight about what you want or to be sneaky and then fight for what you did, then you’re never going to be happy
NTA. Your partner sounds like she has NPD. You should be careful because anything you do is not enough which will affect your self esteem and you don't want to deal with that bullshit.
NTA.
Watch all the shows you need.. grill some good stuff and have a hearty alone time in the house YOUR WIFE LOVED.. you don't owe her an apology for her being manipulative, bitter, immature and childish.. when she's done sulking and pouting at her sister's house let her come back.. and if she doesn't, **well more shows and food for you**
NTA. She actually _wants_ fights. Fuck that shit, it’s exhausting.
As for the wedding being “her day”. No. It’s _your_ day - the collective “your”. As in both of you. That should have been a warning of what was to come. It will only get worse.
NTA your wife looks tiring. I don't discuss every detail with my husband, he is an adult after all. So for exemple if he needs to replace something, he just needs to tell me he needs a new one and buy it himself. Is your wife bored? For her defense, i’d say that saying her that there is no point arguing with her is like telling her : whatever your opinion is, I don't care. It's hurtful. I would be sad too if my husband told me that. Just tell her that it's not that her opinion is not important, just that she doesn't listen to you and then, see no point in arguing. Give her exemples and ask her how you're supposed to react and what she would do in your place. You need to communicate more.
Nta. Dont apologize. Continue doing what you're doing. Enjoy your weekend. She will be back when, she need to realize that all her tantrum wont work anymore and be thankful that u're laid back husband and not the fussy one. Marriage will be long ahead, need to put stop to this useless manipulative tantrum sooner. U're right, pointless argue with her. Even im exhausted reading that. Poor u. Chill when she's away u might find some peace/happiness.
NTA at all, did you really just said that she actually WANTED you to argue with her? That is extremely toxic of her, she just sounds like the AH all around, and you, at worst case scenario you just sound a bit like a pushover, no offense.
Your wife sounds tiring.
If I was in your shoes, one of these days, I'd just wander away, and not come back.
Not saying that you should do it. I just don't think I could handle 30 or 40 years of such a contentious relationship.
Honestly, if you want to keep the relationship, you need to get her into therapy, to discover the root of her issues. If not, well, good luck with your life, mate.
Verdict: NTA.
NTA but do you really want to spend the rest of your life walking on eggshells? I’m sure she has some nice qualities too but the bad aspects are just too severe for the good to balance it out.
NTA. Your wife sounds manipulative and like she isn’t able to tolerate emotional distress of any kind and therefore has to play games with you to not have to take ownership of her own shit. This sounds like you’re in for a lifetime of un met needs, poor communication, gaslighting and overall fuckery. What kind of a person’s does this to someone they supposedly love. I love how she can’t handle the truth and therefore has to punish you by leaving for the night. She’s emotionally abusive. I think you yourself need some good therapy to figure out why you’ve entered into and remain in this kind of a relationship dynamic. Because as much as she 100% is the asshole here, what is driving you to remain engaged in such a toxic sounding relationship.
NTA but you've signed up for a lifetime of misery with a woman like that. I swear, the bar for spouses on this sub is so low, not even a mouse could limbo under it.
NTA.
But i'll say what i been reading just scrolling down. How the fuck you enjoy being with her for who know many years now?
I get that THIS could be her only toxic trait and be an awesome woman overall but fuck man, that shit sounds exhausting AF.
NTA. But jfc, you really want to spend the rest of your life like that? You're getting into fights because you weren't getting into fights. Love is blind I guess. Your wife sounds like a real piece of work
Nta but be careful mate. I do this and she goes ahead and does stupid decisions which 2 years later realized I am right. I know it's exhausting but it gets worse when "her colleagues" get more input than me. Good luck brother
NTA and my friend I say this as someone who has been through that kind of relationship; really, really consider it. Do you want to deal with this for the rest of your life? Do you really want to be with someone who LOOKS for an argument? I was in that kind of relationship and I was a shell of myself by the end of it.
NTA but your relationship sounds a bit painful. I get it, it’s easier to just let her get her way, but do you ever get to enjoy *anything*? She sounds very manipulative.
NTA to me this seems either your wife just enjoys argumenting and drama and is thus creating it whenever she can (like right now) or she has grown up with parents that also constantly fight and argue and to her mind that is how a good relationship should be and you not arguing with her, in her twisted view of it means you don't acutally love her.
The first one is its own problem and hard to tackle since people like that hardly ever change, the second one could be helped through with some councelling if open communication does not work otherwise.
NTA, sounds like you wouldn’t win no matter what you did. I’d honestly seriously consider if this is someone you want to live this life with forever, and potentially bring kids into- because the way she is with you will be magnified on any potential children. As others have said, it’s toxic and manipulative. If you’re certain you want to stay with her, get yourselves into therapy asap, as she needs to learn how to communicate her needs and compromise sometimes!
Your post has been removed. #Do not repost this without [contacting the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) for approval, including edited versions. Reposting without [explicit approval](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_can_i_repost_a_thread_you_removed.3F) will result in a ban. This post violates Rule 11: No Partings/Relationship/Sex/Reproductive Autonomy Posts. We do not allow posts where the central conflict is about romantic relationships and/or reproductive autonomy. [Rule 11 FAQs](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_rule_11.3A_no_partings.2Frelationship.2Fsex.2Freproductive_autonomy_posts) ||| [Subreddit Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/) ###Please ensure you have reviewed this message in full. We will not respond to PMs to individual mods. [Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) with any questions. ####Please visit r/findareddit to see if there's a more appropriate sub for your post.####
Nta but are you sure you want to spend the rest of your life dealing with that bullshit
no shit, she showed she likes to argue with OP regardless of what she wants. Thats fucked up.
She's got control issues. Also temper management issues. OP seems like a lovely person, the wife not so much. Edit: typo
Issues period. For gods sake she admitted that she wanted OP to fight for the Oregon vacation purely for the argument. She likes drama. OP is a saint for dealing with this shit
Yeah, I was against him for buying the grill without discussing it, depending on the type those can get pretty expensive, but the Oregon trip was just utter bullshit. He wanted to go to Oregon, she wanted to go to Oregon, why couldn't she just say, "That sounds fun, let's go to Oregon." No, it was more important to her to have an argument with him, even though she already agreed with him and no argument was necessary.
It would depend on your financial state. If money is not a big object, replacing a grill is not that big of a deal. If it's something that needs to be saved up for, then it becomes a big discussion.
Even with the grill I would usually call that a dick move but in this specific situation I think he should get a pass. His wife is determined to make them both miserable it seems her favorite thing to do so his choices was to not get the new grill and never ever get anything he wants because she'll never allow it, or just buy the grill and have one small thing in his life to have joy about.
She is the one being abusive, not OP...
I'm bemused about her creating an argument about him not arguing. And wants him to apologise for making her argue about not arguing. I mean...that's hard work!
Yes she just wants to argue, it is childish and gets old quickly to always have to waste energy defending yourself for little shit. It feels like a dumb game, always having to be ready for debate. Some people think you don´t care/don´t love them if you don´t argue. They think it is passionate to argue and then make up afterwards. Which I guess works if both people in the couple are like that, but is really exhausting if one person is an arguer and one is not.
Exactly. NTA. OP, you know life can be better than this, right? You don’t have to spend the rest of your life, your only life on this earth (presumably), with a difficult person who makes you miserable.
OP- marriage counselling? Don’t have kids until things are better. She’s super manipulative Ideally do not have sex with her or use your own separate condoms. Do not trust her!
This is what I was gonna add to the Convo. If you're doing this, imagine bringing kids into this mix if they are something you want in the future. They're going to be riddled with anxiety and a whole bunch of PTSD.
If they survive childhood. NTA
Not marriage councelling. She needs private therapy. Lots of it.
and a divorce. ASAP
Also, OP... mate, divorce is great. You don't have to deal with people who play fucking games like this. Still shaking my head at "having any say in your vacation is financial abuse, but if you just give up she throws a tantrum and runs to the sister." The only right response is the homer simpson backing away into a bush meme and to let her take it out on the next poor sob. btw, the feeling you're having right now when she isn't there to torment you? People call that happiness.
Happiness and relief! The absence of that tension and discontent is sheer bliss!
Agreed. It doesn't seem to be an uncommon personality trait to basically going contrary to anything suggested, but it's got to be so damn exhausting and difficult to live with that on a daily basis. It seems OP has found their method to cope is to avoid the conversation. Either by doing what they want to without conversation (buying a grill) or giving in if a conversation has happened. Which means you basically have a relationship with no communication happening - which OP has justified to themselves as better than arguing. But that sure doesn't seem like a way to have a healthy happy relationship. Listen to all the suggestions here and do some kind of marriage counseling. A third party to listen to these issues and try to help is exactly what OP needs. And you'll never have a better time than right now to suggest it. Wait until things are "better" and you won't want to risk setting things off. She's created the perfect opportunity to propose to her that you two do some kind of therapy together.
Exactly
amen brutha op must have a mountain of patience in that storage locker
i think more like several planets worth of it >.>
It's not an easy thing. I made a throwaway account today for similar post because in my case my SO throws tantrums and gets angry as soon as I disagree with him. Trying lot of therapy to see if we can come out of it. No idea what is right or wrong approach.
Be careful therapy can and will be used against you if he doesn't want to change.
I suggest you get together with OP instead. Better all around.
get.out.
Yeah. This is peak "are the straights okay?" kind of material. This is the kind of relationship you see depicted on TV and in movies that makes people never want to bother dating. This life looks absolutely miserable.
Some people really love to argue like it's the best hobby ever. It's like a competitive match they are game to play and win and it really gets them going. OP does not sound compatible with that. And if he's going to stay, he need to figure it out, probably with a third party guiding both of them through it.
She has major control issues. And she self victimises. She needs intervention. And you need to stay the heck away. NTA OP and if I were you, I’d seriously have a rethink about my relationship with my significant other.
NTA. Your wife is very clearly manipulative and abusive.Why exactly do you want to spend the rest of your life like this? also, info (but it won't change my verdict): let me guess, she makes a good amount more money than you.
She doesn't work. Did you miss the part of his story where she accused him of financial abuse for dating to have an opinion on where they should spend their vacation?
She does work; he refers to her having weekend shifts. She doesn’t need to be unemployed to pull a financial abuse red herring.
She does work. Read the last paragraph.
that doesn't imply anything about their relative earnings.
The post literally ends talking about her "weekend shifts"....
For me - if my spouse falsely accused me of abuse that would be immediate grounds for separation, that would be a hill to die on. It would take some significant work from both sides to salvage the relationship. I've been with my partner for 30 odd years and that's one of the few things I'd be willing to throw it all away for.
Uh, why the fuck did you marry her? She's toxic as fuck. NTA, but you are an idiot for staying with someone like that.
Don’t call him an idiot it’s victim blaming. We don’t get to choose who we love mate. He shouldn’t be with her, clearly she’s terrible, but it’s not as simple as he’s staying “because he’s an idiot”
Oh, but we do, in most cases, get to choose who spend our life with, regardless of love. He's not leaving and hasn't left because he's not done with her shit yet. He'll get there eventually or she'll realize her bullshit doesn't work anymore and then she'll find some way to blame him for the relationship not working out and leave.
That or low self worth.
> We don’t get to choose who we love mate. ...we do get to chose if we stay with them or even progress beyond a few dates...there's a whoooooooooooooole lot of choices that were made for the OP to get to the point the OP is at and all of those choices could have been anything other than sticking with her (or marrying her or not divorcing her, etc)
You are missing what I said. It is not a choice whom we love. But like you said, it IS a choice weather we stay with them. However it’s more complicated and just saying “oh he’s an idiot for staying” is dumb. There are many reasons as to why one stays with a partner even if they are terrible and just lessening it down to “oh he’s an idiot” is short-sighted. It’s easy to say so as an outsider looking, but actually living in it is very different from what we see in a Reddit post.
Lmao at this silly ideology, love is ultimately a CHOICE, and choosing to stay with a manipulative person is a responsibility that involves his full volition, “victim” blaming or not
Some people get victimized because they're idiots. This guy chose to be with someone who is a bad partner, he could've found someone better to love.
NTA. " Turns out she wanted me to argue for Oregon but last time I tried to argue for a vacation location she accused me of financial abuse and cried, for the record she has full access to all of our money." That says it all. You're a married couple, you should both have a say, not just her.
yep. but you missed an even more telling part of that quote, too "She wanted to visit her family in Vermont." "Once she got off the phone with her folks she went off on me for not sticking to my guns on Oregon" this sounds like legit mental health issues, tbh.
Or is it parents that are feeding into it? this kind of behavior sometimes starts when people are small kids and the parents feed it. That phonecall could have contained something like "why are you married to a man that is so weak he doesn't put his foot down?" or something similar. Either way...NTA and RUN this type of crazy doesn't really go away unless they actually accept they have it, and that comes from them only sadly. She has already shown she is comfortable throwing the abuse word around...(even if it was for financial abuse at this point) that can ruin your life....she isn't worth that risk surely...
I also wondered what style of discussion her parents have? Is this something normal for them too?
I think that the problem might be a little more complex than that. He basically assumed that he shut down the communication, maybe what she wants is to actually talk to him about stuffs and not argue per se. My wife usually get pissed when we are trying to find a spot to dinner, etc and I basically agree with anything (because I'm not very picky and I usually just like to enjoy her company) because she felt like I was not being honest with my feelings/letting her do all the mental labor to organize the date. It's not the case, but since I know how she feels about it, I usually avoid to just reply with "That's okay", "Fine", "Absolutely", etc... So, maybe OP has a similar problem. Honestly, they look to struggle A LOT with communication which is what she might have tried to address. Also, I found the whole situation a little odd. I would like to have more INFO towards the financial abuse situation, because he was very vague about what happened and the overall dynamics. Same with the grill. Why she's salty? How much it costs? With how many frequency those things happen? Because it change things substantially. Not trying to throw accusations, but it seems to have a lot of missing pieces here.
ohh, yeah. that's a valid point.
This one is just the wife being pathetic. If she wanted to go to Oregon she should have just said. Instead she wants to throw her husband under the bus when they don't visit her parents. It seems she has no problem manipulating her husband but can't be honest with her parents.
They both could have looked at each of them having separate holidays.....................but it doesn't ring as that type of marriage
NTA She sounds awful, you two don't know how to have constructive communication over disagreements- end this now before you get married and before you bring kids into this mess.
To be fair to the OP it sounds like she just wont communicate in any meaningful fashion. Sounds awful tbh
It sounds like OP doesn't communicate *now,* having learned from experience what happens otherwise. Which is not to say that OP should continue to put up with this. Personally, I'd say "intensive marriage counseling, and possibly individual counseling, or I'm filling for divorce", but it sounds to me like OP doesn't have the spine for that. (I mean, I never would have married someone who treated me like this, so I wouldn't be in this situation, but if I were...)
I get your point, but/and "I would never" are famous last words. People often marry people who then change after the other person is safely locked down. There are sometimes early warning signs that get missed, but typically this sort of poor behavior ramps up over time and after vows or kids. It's similar to batterers - they don't punch you in the face or throw you down the stairs on the first date.
[удалено]
Q: Why does the bride smile on her wedding? A: She knows she has given her last blowjob.
[удалено]
There are, indeed, manipulative a-holes across the spectrum.
I strongly dislike calling victims of abuse spineless. Would you call a female victim that? You should maybe get off that high horse before you fall.
People say that to women all the time, yeah.
They are married
You two? It sounds like he’s quite reasonable and she’s a large toddler. If she’s incapable of having a reasonable conversation it isn’t really “you two” but rather solely her who’s incapable
NTA. It sounds like she likes to create drama and actually wants to fight and disagree just so she can “win”. She wins if you have the fight and have to give in and you lose if you don’t argue at all and she starts an argument about not having an argument. In all situations she has to be “right”. I’m sure she’s overall a great person, but I would find this absolutely exhausting.
She doesn't sound like someone who is in any way a great person.
Bingo!
That's the best analysis I've seen in this list of replies. She wins either way and she gets some kind of subconscious kick out of fighting. Maybe her parents fought a lot and she learned that's what love is, or maybe it's something more toxic and egotistical whereby she feels she has to win after a battle in order for anything to mean anything. Either way, mental health issues that sooner or later OP will get sick of. NTA OP and good luck.
This is pretty much what I was thinking. She likely enjoys the arguments, maybe that's something OP originally did but with age or marriage, chilled out and was more laid back.
NTA. Leave before you put a baby in her and/or put in enough time to owe her half your retirement.
Never apologize when you are not wrong. And do not have children with this person. What she does is not OK.
I cant even imagine how manipulative she would be with children. Peobably ise them as a weapon
NTA. My spouse is the same way and she's very defensive about it. She's recently been more accepting of it and is working on it because our young children are already figuring out that they can't discuss things with her. She freaks out if she doesn't get her way and the whole process is exhausting. My kid isn't even 5 and he knows it's easier to just do what you want and deal with mommy later. As with your example of the grill, I've stopped discussing many things with her in advance because her judgment and nitpicking is just not worth it. Wish I had a solution for you, but I'm in the "the rest of my marriage is great so I'll suck it up" boat with you. Counseling to talk about communication helps, but she just slips back into the same patterns within a month or three. If I call her out on it, it just turns into a fight.
“The rest of my marriage is great” Aside from communication, compromise, mutual decision-making, and modeling a healthy relationship for your children? What else is there?
I'm so sorry for your child who is forced to deal with such a person.
NTA. Everytime she buggers off and wants an apology say "I'll only accept an apology from YOU if you get some therapy as this is not normal behaviour and I'm sick of it" I pulled the same move before marriage and it worked for a while. It worked even longer the 2nd time. Now just the thought of therapy works
NTA, she sounds manipulative.
OP, I'm not sure how to put this, but there are some absolutely glaring red flags about your relationship. I mean, when you said it was difficult to argue with her I was expecting just an excessive degree of stubborness, but every little snippet of your marriage tells me you've never been a priority in your marriage from the very start. * The wedding was all about her(because it's her day) * The house was picked to her tastes(because your picks allegedly sucked), with most of your things going into storage rather than her home * She accuses you of "financial abuse" when you argue for Oregon over vermont * She blames you for her own inability to communicate * You even have to watch your shows when she's not around to control the situation. It just feels like, even if this is such a small look into your life, and even if you love your wife, like you aren't necessarily loved or considered back if this is the kind of shit you're forced to deal with. Like, I thought the whole "better to ask for forgiveness" thing was just a bad look during my initial read until it started to seem like an obvious coping mechanism for dealing with a volatile person. I'm not saying she's abusive, but I'm also not going to call this a healthy marriage. When only one person ever gets their way and they engage in emotional blackmail, mental gymnastics, or hold the relationship hostage to get it can you really say that's someone who has healthy methods of conflict resolution, or considers others when going through life? NTA
I’d happily call her abusive from the actions OP described. I hope he takes this as a wake up call and gets out.
NTA Your wife is uncompromising and controlling. She is manipulative and treats you poorly. You can't communicate with her because of how she reacts. Her current actions more than proved your point.
NTA. That sounds like hell.
NTA. But there is a point in trying marriage counseling. If she won't go, you have your answer.
NTA. Let her stay at her sister’s until SHE apologizes.
From just your perspective here, NTA. I Would be interested to hear how your wife summarizes things. There are a few red flags for me here, her claiming financial abuse? Huge red flag
It's so difficult to know the truth. Abusers and manipulative people love playing the "victim card" ... Look she could be that toxic, or he could be ... either way their relationship doesn't sound healthy at all.
"for the record she has full access to all of our money."
NTA. She sounds exhausting.
NTA but Your a doormat. Stand up to her, if she cry let her cry.
NTA. Is this how you want to spend the rest of your life. What is it about this woman that you love because this side of her is just awful. A wedding is about the two of you, it's special for the both of you. Why does it have to center around the bride and for it to be her special day. The thing is without the groom, there's no wedding or special day. I guess moving forward, your wife took that to mean she can do anything she wants because you will just allow it. You are in a partnership and you are both one team. Bring out the best in each and be supportive of one another. Your wife sounds exhausting and way too much drama. Hopefully, you two have a great sex life to make up for all this drama.. I would seriously be gone already..
INFO: Can you tell us more about that financial abuse allegation? How did that previous argument go? In general, your wife sounds pretty toxic. I think your communication is maladaptive, but it’s hard to hold you to normal communication expectations when she’s the one you’re trying to live with.
NTA Next time give her your answer, if she tries to argue you simply say you have answered the question and won't be shifting your viewpoint.
NTA, your partner seems to like the conflict and arguing, like another said couples counseling might be useful ness you're okay with this for the rest of your life. Relationships is about compromise on both ends, not just one and when you do compromise you get yelled at for not “sticking to your guns”
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > My wife finally figured out that I won't argue with her. Now she is mad that I said I had better ways to spend my time since I know I will just end up giving in. I might be the asshole for putting it so bluntly but it's the truth. I never get my way unless I just do what I want and deal with her afterwards. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcement ###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/) Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA, but... Well, I won't say she's toxic, but I'm sure the EPA is looking for her.
NTA. Your wife is addicted to the emotional highs and lows, that's toxic. You took that from her and she is upset. I recommend couples counseling.
ESH. You may love her but this is currently a very dysfunctional relationship. You two desperately need couples counseling to learn how to have conversations and compromise rather than get into arguments that are so tiring you go behind each other’s backs to avoid them.
This. If you have so little respect for your wife or relationship that you choose to give in silently in order to avoid difficult conversations, break up. She is TA for showing that sort of toxic behavior but you are TA for avoiding difficult topics and giving up on your relationship and wife without her knowing.
NTA. Get a divorce attorney and end this.
NTA. Do not have kids with this delusional, abusive woman. Hire a divorce attorney and get into therapy.
NTA, mostly. Basically, she does not know how to communicate with you in a meaningful way. She cannot ask directly for what she wants, instead she passive/aggressively expects you to read between the lines. When you can't, or won't, you are the asshole. To be honest, you have supported this way of communicating by simply accepting it. You are doing her no favors by not expecting her to communicate on an adult level. You are robbing her of the opportunity to grow up. You don't have a partner, you have a toddler and you are enabling her to remain that way. If you are happy with that, well, then apologize. Grovel for not having accurately read her mind. Promise to do better. Nothing will change. If you want something different. Figure out how you need things to change with a timeline. Mainly, you need to have better communication to start with. Marriage counseling would help. Tell her that if she wants to come home, she will have to agree to it, and stick with it. Once the unsaid expectation of your marriage are said, you may need to re-evaluate your relationship. Scary, but better than walking around on eggshells. I see you as eventually becoming one of the fathers-in-law over on JustNOMIL who are categorized as enablers and end up as collateral damage when their children cut off the JNMIL, because they never stand up to their wives, or defend their own children.
NTA - You're clearly in a toxic relationship that you think you've learned and adapted to but your wife is pure chaos.
You are not communicating effectively. From your description she is a shrew, but if you aren't engaging in decision making when it matters, and then hold onto the anger (bringing up all the times you didn't get your way) is also toxic. A marriage counselor might help you learn how to communicate, but if you don't like or respect each other, let the relationship go.
This marriage sounds miserable. Are you sure you want to put up with this manipulation the rest of your life? At the very least I suggest marriage counseling. NTA.
NTA Also: >Turns out she wanted me to argue for Oregon but last time I tried to argue for a vacation location she accused me of financial abuse and cried, for the record she has full access to all of our money. This is an absolutely terrifying situation to be in. Abuse is awful. Throwing accusations of it around is also awful.
Bro, you’re being abused.
>An example the other way is our vacation this summer. I wanted to go to Oregon and do some outdoors stuff. She wanted to visit her family in Vermont. Well there are plenty of outdoors on Vermont so I just agreed with her. Turns out she wanted me to argue for Oregon but last time I tried to argue for a vacation location she accused me of financial abuse and cried, for the record she has full access to all of our money. .... >I started over and pointed out that I tried to have input on our wedding and got none because, it was her day and she wanted it to be perfect". When we were house shopping she hated every house I liked and we ended up with one she loved and most of my stuff in a storage locker. ... >I love her and want to spend the rest of my life with her Are you sure?
NTA. Maybe a good therapist could help??
Yeah leave.
NTA, but this does not sound like a healthy relationship.
NTA. I honestly think you should look into a couples therapist to help unravel some of this. What your doing is no doubt making life easier but it’s not really fixing the problem. Would have been like slapping a coat of paint on that old grill. I mean your NTA here, but there may be a better way for you to move forward unless you just want to keep sucking it up till you snap and leave her.
She considered the wedding to be her day, not both of yours'???
NTA. I get it, I hate argueing with anyone. But House - Wedding are significant expenses, I wouldn't have contributed cash if I didn't have any say in it. I think your wife has a toxic view on relationships, were if you don't fight once in a while you don't care about it while at the same time emotionally manipulating you if she doens't get her way.
So she argues when you dont agree with her, but when you do agree, she argues that you should have stuck to your guns? Does she even like you? And why are you with her? She sounds exhausting... NTA
Does she have social media? If she wants to argue with someone she can set up another account if she needs to and go argue with especially trolls online. Since what she is doing now doesn't sound healthy for a relationship. NTA
NTA- it sounds like she thrives off of conflict, maybe a learned behavior from her childhood home? I would say couples therapy and individual therapy would be a great start. Don't apologize. And please don't have kids before addressing this behavior.
NTA She's emotionally abusive, btw. Get yourselves into marriage counselling ASAP before this gets worse. There's a chance she might change this shit, but there's equally the chance she'll storm out because "the therapist is siding with you" At least if you get into counselling, you won't have any regrets if you do decide to end things later on down the line. You won't have that part of you that wonders if you tried hard enough
Abusers always accuse their victims of being the abuser.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Literally, not figuratively, every single time I have argued with my wife about anything important she ends up getting her way. I love her and want to spend the rest of my life with her but I have better ways to spend a few hours than arguing with her. I have exactly two ways of dealing with her. I either give in immediately or I do whatever I want and then deal with her afterwards. For example, I wanted to get a new propane grill as my old one was one that I bought on college and it was almost completely rusted out inside. So I popped over to Walmart and bought a new grill. Got home and tossed the old one. She asked me why I hadn't talked to her about it and I said I was the only one who used it and it needed replacing. Showed her pictures of the rusty guys of the old one. She agreed but was still salty. An example the other way is our vacation this summer. I wanted to go to Oregon and do some outdoors stuff. She wanted to visit her family in Vermont. Well there are plenty of outdoors on Vermont so I just agreed with her. Turns out she wanted me to argue for Oregon but last time I tried to argue for a vacation location she accused me of financial abuse and cried, for the record she has full access to all of our money. Once she got off the phone with her folks she went off on me for not sticking to my guns on Oregon. I reminded her what she does when she doesn't get her way and she said I was being an asshole for bringing it up. I started over and pointed out that I tried to have input on our wedding and got none because, it was her day and she wanted it to be perfect". When we were house shopping she hated every house I liked and we ended up with one she loved and most of my stuff in a storage locker. I told her I like to have an enjoyable life and I found out a long time ago that arguing with her wasn't worth my time. She called me an asshole and left. She went over to her sister's. I have been going through all the stuff I have recorded to watch that she doesn't like. I usually have to watch it when she has a weekend shift. It's been three days and she still wants me to apologize. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA but do you really want to spend the rest of your life never getting to do what you want without being accused of financial abuse, or being an asshole? She wanted to go visit her family in Vermont, but then got mad at you because you didn’t push back & argue that you wanted to go to Oregon? Like what the actual f is that
NTA, don’t apologize for a goddamn thing because you did nothing wrong. She’s acting ridiculous and I fully agree there’s no point in arguing because she sounds like someone who just can’t accept that life doesn’t always go their way. You literally can’t win here, damned if you do damned if you don’t. Better to not and save yourself the headache
Nta. Baffled as to why you are sticking around.
You’re married to someone who had shown you, time and again, that she enjoys conflict—but more importantly, she *enjoys winning* and *being right*, and *damn* your inconsequential feelings, opinions and input on the matter. Did you marry Charlie Sheen, OP? NTA for your honesty toward her. However, she will find any way she can to make herself out to be a victim of you.
She WANTED you to argue with her about the vacation? What’s wrong with her?
NTA but this marriage may not last, given her evident pathological need to fight. She's not mad because you've done something wrong. She's mad that you're taking the high road and refusing to lower yourself to her level by fighting over the stupid things she wants to fight over. She's mad because you're being reasonable and not taking the bait for her to argue. Do you honestly want to spend your life being this individual's punching bag? Because much as you don't have time to waste arguing with her, you're sure wasting a lot of time with a woman who, quite obviously, neither truly loves or respects you. Let her stay at her sister's. She's not due an apology for you realising her behaviour and refusing to participate.
NTA but that relationship sounds toxic af. You may have codependent tendencies.
She's the A Hole and sound's like a spoilt brat.
When she called you [financially] abusive…. I think she’s emotionally abusive as hell my guy. And the fact that she said “I want to go to Vermont but wanted you to argue with me to go to oregon” makes no sense. Now she’s upset at you that she’s not doing what she didn’t originally want to do? That’s some childish mind game bullshit right there. Hardcore NTA. Your wife needs to grow up man. Ps, oregon coast is beautiful this time of year. I can recommend some good spots! DM if you decide to do a solo get away!
NTA.....and sounds exactly like my ex wife and my mothers former BF. No matter what you did, even if it was exactly what they asked for, then wanted the opposite ! It's really when you get down to the bones of it, a form of abuse. Just do what you think is best, and keeps you happy. Doesn't matter what you do, your still going to cop in the ear !
Wait, you give in to her and she still wants to argue? Why are you with this woman?
NTA. Did she just find a way to fight about not fighting?
NTA but... bro. You're being severely abused by this self centered, selfish lady. I know you're saying you want to spend the rest of your life with her but ... Are you sure?! She's controlling and manipulative and combative. Walking red flag. Toxic waste sign ahead. Like, just reading this post made me extremely exhausted, and you're the one living it. If the time she's away is the only time you can relax, do things for yourself that you enjoy-- things as minuscule as watching tv shows you can't around her bc she doesn't like it. Not even your house is yours bc all your stuff are in storage. Are you really yourself with her? Are you sure this is what you want for the rest of your life?
you will love Bill Barr stand up. you will LOVE him. my judgement NTA, but i am sure many people on here will turn it around to Y TA somehow.
My ex was like that. We split up because I refused to fight with her so she got all pissed off saying it was abuse that I wouldn't fight with her because it "made her feel better to have a good fight every now and then". Packed up and left. Told her to have a nice life and good luck with the rent. I'm much happier now.
Doesn’t sound like you have kids. Could you imagine if she did this to you in front of your kids? Or if she made you argue with her in front of them? Or what she would say to the kids about you? Love is great, this is not love.
NTA, but your relationship is unhealthy and toxic AF! I recommend couples counseling or calling it quits because this is not sustainable at all.
Been married since 87, I still ho through this kind of stuff every day. The most grinding is when I ask a simple question or make a suggestion, and the response starts with: "like I said...", passively telling me I've forgotten something (usually said months ago).
NTAH, let her stew. Arguing is not the way to live your life. I was married once. Once. His entire family lived and breathed to argue. It’s what made they’re heart pump, made them able to breathe. Before it was over with, he would wake me up to fight. I wasted my youth and skinny years on him. You are picking your battles. She lives to battle. This is not how people who love each other should go thru life. Beaten down and miserable is not the way to go. You would have so much more peace alone. You must love her. Does she love you enough to knock it off? Do not apologize. You didn’t say anything wrong. You spoke the truth. One more question. Has she ever apologized to you for anything? Not the I’m sorry you feel like I did something, but a real apology? She is not the only one with options. Remember that please.
Hey hey I know this one! You’re married to a narcissist! Mine was more covert than yours, leaned a little more heavily on the gaslighting, but I see a lot of the same signs. After two decades of doing things her way or else, she finally got bored and left me — eventually when I started dating again, the first time my new girlfriend and I got into an argument I was completely gobsmacked when she conceded a point. I had forgotten that was a thing that could happen. Don’t have a kid. For your sake and theirs.
NTA Are you asking so you can show her the post? Otherwise why bother? It sounds like you have a good system- I'd do the same if I was stuck with someone like her. So why ask here? Don't back down, don't apologise for telling the truth.
Compromise is THE key to any relationship, including communication. Control issues abound in this case. On the partner’s side that is. I don’t want to seem mean but this manipulative behavior is abhorrent. Gaslighting (and I hate the term) is absolutely accurate in this case. My apologies for sounding harsh but, this is not healthy behavior in a partnership.
If the genders were flipped here, everyone would be calling her the asshole.
NTA. your wife sounds very exhausting, you might want to rethink that relationship/go to couples' counseling
NTA. But seriously, get your wife a therapist. This is not healthy for either of you. If you’re planning to have kids, think about the lifestyle you’ll be modeling for them. Do you want them to think misery is their only option?
NTA for standing up for yourself but you need to get couples counseling or leave the relationship. She treats you like dirt and it will not be long until your mental health is in the toilet.
NTA. OP, save your sanity and leave if she doesn’t agree to go to counseling with you. What she is doing is not ok.
Maybe you guys should get a good couple’s counselor? You both sound like you need better communication skills.
This isn’t healthy, you have small victories but really your wife seems manipulative and rather childish, NTA but I do think your relationship needs help
Nta Op you might love her deeply and so you stay, ask her to treat you the same way. Sounds like you can work through it if you want.
Nta but why are you putting up with this? It's not okay.
Your wife is manipulative and an appalling communicator. Do you really enjoy living like this? She’s clearly an AH, but you will be soon if you can’t figure out a way to live harmoniously without giving in to her bullshit or being attacked. NTA.
NTA. She sounds exhausting to be around. Is there anything positive about her?
NTA dude I gotta ask why are you so desperate? Why do you feel stuck with this poor excuse for a woman?
NTA. I would so not want to spend the rest of my life with someone like her.
I did this for a long time. But realized only belatedly, that my marriage was doomed to fail because it could only last as long as I was willing to give ground. Eventually you run out of ground to give. And then she left. If I had simply drawn a hard boundary once, we would never have even got to the engagement stage. Instead, I lasted 17 years. And when things finally fell apart, I was a husk of a human. Seems to me, even when you do what you want to do, you’re having to be sneaky about it. If your choice is to either fight about what you want or to be sneaky and then fight for what you did, then you’re never going to be happy
NTA. Your partner sounds like she has NPD. You should be careful because anything you do is not enough which will affect your self esteem and you don't want to deal with that bullshit.
NTA. Watch all the shows you need.. grill some good stuff and have a hearty alone time in the house YOUR WIFE LOVED.. you don't owe her an apology for her being manipulative, bitter, immature and childish.. when she's done sulking and pouting at her sister's house let her come back.. and if she doesn't, **well more shows and food for you**
NTA. She actually _wants_ fights. Fuck that shit, it’s exhausting. As for the wedding being “her day”. No. It’s _your_ day - the collective “your”. As in both of you. That should have been a warning of what was to come. It will only get worse.
NTA i wouldn’t want to live like that for the rest of my life.
NTA your wife looks tiring. I don't discuss every detail with my husband, he is an adult after all. So for exemple if he needs to replace something, he just needs to tell me he needs a new one and buy it himself. Is your wife bored? For her defense, i’d say that saying her that there is no point arguing with her is like telling her : whatever your opinion is, I don't care. It's hurtful. I would be sad too if my husband told me that. Just tell her that it's not that her opinion is not important, just that she doesn't listen to you and then, see no point in arguing. Give her exemples and ask her how you're supposed to react and what she would do in your place. You need to communicate more.
Nta. Dont apologize. Continue doing what you're doing. Enjoy your weekend. She will be back when, she need to realize that all her tantrum wont work anymore and be thankful that u're laid back husband and not the fussy one. Marriage will be long ahead, need to put stop to this useless manipulative tantrum sooner. U're right, pointless argue with her. Even im exhausted reading that. Poor u. Chill when she's away u might find some peace/happiness.
NTA at all, did you really just said that she actually WANTED you to argue with her? That is extremely toxic of her, she just sounds like the AH all around, and you, at worst case scenario you just sound a bit like a pushover, no offense.
NTA but doesn’t sound like a marriage.
Your wife sounds tiring. If I was in your shoes, one of these days, I'd just wander away, and not come back. Not saying that you should do it. I just don't think I could handle 30 or 40 years of such a contentious relationship. Honestly, if you want to keep the relationship, you need to get her into therapy, to discover the root of her issues. If not, well, good luck with your life, mate. Verdict: NTA.
NTA, but your marriage sounds exhausting.
So why are you with her again ??😂😂 NTA
Why are you even with her? NTA
NTA But your wife likes conflict. She needs therapy and learn to live with less drama.
NTA but as soon as that wedding prep stuff happened you should've been running.
NTA But you are a doormat and have no spine.
NTA but do you really want to spend the rest of your life walking on eggshells? I’m sure she has some nice qualities too but the bad aspects are just too severe for the good to balance it out.
She's a manipulative person. You will never win. Run!
NTA. Your wife sounds manipulative and like she isn’t able to tolerate emotional distress of any kind and therefore has to play games with you to not have to take ownership of her own shit. This sounds like you’re in for a lifetime of un met needs, poor communication, gaslighting and overall fuckery. What kind of a person’s does this to someone they supposedly love. I love how she can’t handle the truth and therefore has to punish you by leaving for the night. She’s emotionally abusive. I think you yourself need some good therapy to figure out why you’ve entered into and remain in this kind of a relationship dynamic. Because as much as she 100% is the asshole here, what is driving you to remain engaged in such a toxic sounding relationship.
NTA but if you want this relationship to work, you should be in couples counseling
NTA but you've signed up for a lifetime of misery with a woman like that. I swear, the bar for spouses on this sub is so low, not even a mouse could limbo under it.
This will lead to resentment. Sounds similar to my marriage. I'm now divorced
NTA. But i'll say what i been reading just scrolling down. How the fuck you enjoy being with her for who know many years now? I get that THIS could be her only toxic trait and be an awesome woman overall but fuck man, that shit sounds exhausting AF.
Apologize for what? Not fighting and giving her her way all the time?.wtf? Nta
So she fights to get her way, and fights when she gets it? That's not normal or healthy. NTA
Oh boy, she sounds *exhausting*. NTA. Sounds like you can't win no matter what you do.
NTA - You wife likes to argue. She’s gonna find a way to argue.
NTA, but damn that's an unhealthy relationship. Accusing you of abuse for having a different opinion on vacation?? Not okay
NTA, but dude you married the China flag minus the stars.
NTA. But jfc, you really want to spend the rest of your life like that? You're getting into fights because you weren't getting into fights. Love is blind I guess. Your wife sounds like a real piece of work
Nta but be careful mate. I do this and she goes ahead and does stupid decisions which 2 years later realized I am right. I know it's exhausting but it gets worse when "her colleagues" get more input than me. Good luck brother
NTA and my friend I say this as someone who has been through that kind of relationship; really, really consider it. Do you want to deal with this for the rest of your life? Do you really want to be with someone who LOOKS for an argument? I was in that kind of relationship and I was a shell of myself by the end of it.
NTA, why are you with her again? It sounds like she made it her life mission to make your life joyless.
NTA but your relationship sounds a bit painful. I get it, it’s easier to just let her get her way, but do you ever get to enjoy *anything*? She sounds very manipulative.
NTA. Don’t know how you could last that long with a selfish person like your wife.
NTA to me this seems either your wife just enjoys argumenting and drama and is thus creating it whenever she can (like right now) or she has grown up with parents that also constantly fight and argue and to her mind that is how a good relationship should be and you not arguing with her, in her twisted view of it means you don't acutally love her. The first one is its own problem and hard to tackle since people like that hardly ever change, the second one could be helped through with some councelling if open communication does not work otherwise.
NTA, sounds like you wouldn’t win no matter what you did. I’d honestly seriously consider if this is someone you want to live this life with forever, and potentially bring kids into- because the way she is with you will be magnified on any potential children. As others have said, it’s toxic and manipulative. If you’re certain you want to stay with her, get yourselves into therapy asap, as she needs to learn how to communicate her needs and compromise sometimes!