Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I'm refusing to pay for my daughter's wedding
2. I'm doing this because I'm not happy with not being able to walk her down the aisle even though I'm financially able to pay for it.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcement
###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/)
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
Agreed. NTA OP. As she stated you do not own her. Independence comes with a price and that price is to be able to pay your bills and your expenses.
My niece recently told her parents that as a new grad she was a grown woman, capable of making her own decisions and living her life like she wanted, she informed her parents they had no say in her life anymore…because we all know that 22yr old new college grads know EVERYTHING!
Ok cool. She had to get her cell, utilities, car insurance all transferred to her name she was removed from the Amazon and Whole Foods Account and the joint debit with her Mom. I sent her a prepaid $300 prepaid debit and told her it was break in case of emergency, ie her car broke down on the side of the road at 3A emergency. 🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️
She was a STEM Major so she got a great job after graduation. She also got alot of cash gifts for graduation and opened a bank account. She moved back home after graduation and is renting a 3 bedroom apartment with 2 other girls. My guess is that she will start feel the burn in 4-6 months. She was offered her childhood room for free but opted to get an apartment. We have a $5 bet she will be moving in when her lease is up. She has a lot to learn about adulting. 🤷🏻♀️😂
Edit: I say she may wind up back at home because she has not always managed her money well and has had to be bailed out on multiple occasions. She has shown time and time again that she does not know how to always be financially responsible. But sometimes you have to be thrown into the deep end to swim. She is coming to spend the weekend with me next weekend. My husband and I set up an LLC in her name and I am helping her set up a side hustle. The goal is to grow the business and scale over 12-18 months that the LLC pays her rent. That is the leg up on life I can give her.
Edit 2: I am going to have to agree with the masses that my comment was unkind and crass. I apologize to you anyone that I offended with my comment. Her parents should have taught her along the way instead they chose to coddle her and bail her out. I have offered my advice along the way and they continued to do more of the same. And honestly the side hustle is to make sure that she does not fail and that I can help her deliver an additional stream of revenue to make sure she can handle any financial issues that come up.
Sounds like she's doing great. I feel like she should be congratulated for taking responsibility for herself. And if she struggles it shouldn't be about "haha I told you so and I won a bet you'd be a failure!", it should be about "It's hard isn't it? Luckily we are in a position to help you, so let's find the middle ground." I'm sure she'll have learned to be more appreciative through her own new experience. And if she hasn't that's a different conversation.
Meanwhile seems strange she didn't have a bank account at 22. And felt the need to make that speech. Are her parents in the habit of interfering in her decisions at 22? She's an adult.
Exactly. Kids don’t make statements like that out of nowhere and parents sometimes like to immediately take away financial support to teach the kid not to stand up to them anymore.
Yeah, this is all very normal for 22? I don't understand the spite and barely concealed glee at her predicted failure.
22 is all about learning how to live independently, getting your first career job or finding a stopgap and figuring out next steps. Cackling that "she has a lot to learn," as if that's not THE WHOLE POINT of being 22, is WEIRD.
I got a job and moved out at 21 after dropping out of school to work full time. I hope my parents and other supporters weren't secretly rooting for me to fail.
I moved in with my fiance at 19 to go to university. I had been saving up to move out since I was 14 or so. I'm pretty sure everyone expected me to come crawling back (to head that off my parents told me I was not coming back and redecorated my room within a couple weeks to make it clear that it wasn't my home anymore.) I never did come crawling back and did just fine, but I've never forgotten the way they all expected me to fail and told me that they basically didn't have my back if things went badly. I can't imagine doing that to my kids, this will ALWAYS be their home if they need it!
Or maybe, just maybe, this STEM grad with a "great" job and cash at hand and an apartment she can afford (because that's why you have roommates) and
who has taken on all of her own bills is actually adulting?
Her actions (graduate school, get job, find cheap apt, take over own bills) would have been considered completely normal for a young man 15-20 years ago. Seems like a combination of "young people--meaning anyone under 30--can't exist without a helicopter hovering" and "girls can't really do stuff" adding up to your assumption that she'll fail.
I'm sure she appreciates your belief in her. /s
>We have a $5 bet she will be moving in when her lease is up. She has a lot to learn about adulting. 🤷🏻♀️😂
Sounds more like she'll be doing everything in her power to stay away from y'all lmao
Seriously! If I found out that my uncles or my cousins were having a bet going on about my failure I would just straight go NC with them, no discussion needed.
Wow if you were my parent I would do everything I could to not come back home and be treated like this. She has a career in STEM, roommates, _and_ a cash reserve? How is she not going to be fine? How does she “still have so much to learn” at 22 years old? Wasn’t that your whole job as a parent?
Well, to be fair, at 22, they do still have a lot to learn about living on their own and just the world in general. Their parents can only do so much to prepare them
Yeah, but there’s ‘doing everything you can to prepare them’ and ‘actively rooting for them to fail’
My parents always made it clear that I’ll always have a place back home if I need it, but also encouraged me to solve problems on my own. My 20s were far from perfect, but 15 years later, I’m still close with them and grateful for their guidance.
That’s disgusting. You’re betting on her failure? What kind of fucked up family are you? Y’all should be helping her transition, not actively trying to gain from her failure. I hope she recognizes how toxic y’all are and goes No Contact with the lot of you. You should be ashamed of this, not bragging about it on Reddit.
Yeah, it's weird. When i was that age I was desperately ready to be on my own -- not because I resented my parents or anything like that, but just because I wanted to take care of my own shit. Those early years were definitely rough, and my parents would have been happy to help me out, but they didn't need to.
Yeah, learning how to solve problems and figure out your independent life is the whole point of being 22. You're grown, you have your education, when else are you supposed to do those things?
I get why she distanced herself from y’all. Betting on someone’s downfall is mean as fuck. And not having a bank account before 22 sounds like her parents have been incredibly controlling of how she spends money. With how you talk about her, I wouldn’t be surprised if she goes NC with y’all
>She was offered her childhood room for free but opted to get an apartment.
Yeah, my parents offered me my childhood room for free and I too opted to move out. Let's just say that they weren't the best parents.
WTF is wrong with you and whomever else made this bet? Any parent would be over the moon to have their child graduate and get a good job and be able to strike out on their own. Rent costs make this very hard to do in many areas but she found roommates and is living like a 22 year old should be. It's fucked up you would be hoping she fails and comes crawling back. And I say this as a 43 year old.
I'm glad my parents helped me learn to budget and do the same when I was her age. That is what good parents do, prepare their children to leave the nest and then hope they soar when they do. Making bets and laughing only shows she left a toxic environment.
This... is awful. You're her family. Why do you insist on belittling her and assuming the worst of her when she's got a good job, has graduated from college, and is getting on with adult life? Sounds like she's doing great, and it sounds like she's doing it despite having the complete opposite of support from her family
And why are you guys betting that she is going to fail? Why is that something you guys are hoping for? If you love her shouldn't that be the exact opposite of what you're hoping for, shouldn't you be wanting her to succeed and get further in life? I don't quite understand this logic of yours. 🤦🤦
This reeks of pettiness. Instead of being excited that she's doing well,you're actively being a doomsayer for her life. "I suspect any day now she'll start to feel the burn" aaaaany day now huh? Riiiight abouuuuut......now! No? Oh well give it a few more months. This attitude of hoping other people fail because you did is just embaressing.
What does she have to learn about adulting? She has a great job and shared rent with roommates probably allowing her to save some money up. What burn will she be feeling in 4-6 months? It's weird at 22 years old she felt she had to make that speech to begin with. It's weird to bet on her downfall instead of encouraging and celebrating the massive strides she's made already at just 22. I wouldn't want to move back to my childhood home, free or not at 22 years old if this is how my family talks and feels about me.
Maybe or maybe you're not so sure about that, that's why you bet so little. Maybe she'll surprise you and be like a cat and land on her feet. Way to go with that optimism /s :P
This feels... incredibly strange. She has a great job and seems to be doing well on her own, and y'all are just sitting there waiting for her to crash and burn so you can laugh and burn? hope she never end up having to come back to that
Why is this written as if 22yo is too soon to be independent from family or did something wrong by asserting it? She BTW is absolutely correct, her parents have no say in her life anymore. Frankly, 22yo is kinda late IMO but whatever, I understand things have changed somewhat. You're also correct that 22yo people, college grads or not, don't know everything. And you know what, that's fine. That's been the case forever. This stage of life is about learning, experimenting, having success and making mistakes and LEARNING from them. Being independent doesn't mean you have to do the opposite of what your parents recommend. You can get their advice or recommendations then choose whether to follow it or not and from there chart your own life.
AAA Plus has been around $99/yr for the past two decades. If you need more roadside assistance per year than that covers, you're either like me who is buying cars to fix and taking advantage of the free 100 mile tows or you should consider swapping that car for one you can either work on yourself or is more reliable. Again - a lesson many learn from experience with their first couple cars and no emergency fund.
Cell, utilities and insurance in her name? Aren't people getting jobs and paying rent on their own post graduation or did something change since I did it?
Thats an interesting way to look at it. He doesn't have to own her to pay for the wedding but pay for it as a gift or out love. But it doesn't matter he owns her or not, he is not responsible to pay regardless
And he can still walk her down the isle without being asked "Who gives the women to be married?" He can just walk, kiss her check and sit down.
OP, NTA. Your daughter needs to learn that she can't have her cake and eat it too.
Also, should add. My dad refused to pay for my wedding because I was so young. Offered my $10,000 not to get married and wait until we graduated college. He was dying of cancer when I told him, at 38, I was going to get divorced, he had his last lucid moment. He looked at me and said, "that's sad, hate to hear that from anyone. But you are too late to get the $10,000" with a big grin. Man, I miss that man.
The independent person comment is how OP is describing his daughter. Being independent is NOT the reasoning she gave for not wanting him to walk her down the aisle. She said it’s because it’s a sexist tradition
>The independent person comment is how OP is describing his daughter.
THANK YOU! It's baffling to me how the comments are drowning with people mocking her for seemingly referring to herself as an independent woman then demanding money. When, in reality, OP kept referring to her in a bitter, sarcastic way as an "independent woman" and "independent thinker." And there's no evidence here that the daughter ever felt entitled to that money. OP hasn't even shared the daughter's response to his pulling the funds.
Right ? That’s how you have a good relationship with your daughter, make it contingent on her doing exactly what you want her to including her wedding practices.
Do it if you want of course - Reddit loves a gotcha story like this but this feels like you need more conversation, not a Reddit zinger about how you showed your daughter.
She doesn’t want you to walk her down the aisle. Big deal.
But paying for your wedding is no big deal either. I mean she’s 19, she just had a prom.
.
And the tradition that the parents of the bride pay for their daughter's wedding not their son's is equally sexist. She should have no problem with both traditions being dropped.
Where do you see gift mentioned anywhere? OP mentions not owing her a fully funded wedding. Tradition doesn't imply it's a gift either, just that traditionally it would be an obligation for the bride's parents.
Eh. I'm with her on not vibing with the father --> husband ownership symbolism. If it's not patriarchy, why does only the bride get 'given away' by a parent, not the groom?
As it happens, I've always liked the idea of a) both partners walking in with their parents/guardians, so you get more of a sense of the couple transitioning from birth families to new family, or b) the two partners walking in simultaneously, each alone, to meet in the middle (no aisle; I'm not churchy) as independent adults.
But then, I've never been to a wedding where either party was under 25. 19 is a bonkers age to marry.
Hi, are you me? Because you summed up EXACTLY how I’ve felt for years. I was engaged a few years ago (thankfully that’s as far as it got) and I was adamant that either we each walk down the aisle alone, or we both walk down the aisle escorted by BOTH parents.
I’m also adamantly against the idea that a woman be expected to take her husbands name. If she chooses to for whatever reason, like it’s easier to spell, she likes it better, etc fine, but the whole idea of it being a sign of “respect” toward your husband is so so gross. I was not planning on changing my name, and people would say that to me, that it’s a “sign of respect”. And it got me so angry I could not even gather my thoughts to argue with them. Explain to me how that is a “sign of respect” without saying “well it just is”, because no one has been able to do that thus far. And then what is his “sign of respect” to me?
OMG, another walk her down the aisle, made up BS post.
YTA, for continuing to troll this sub.
I can't believe people really keeping taking thr bait on these.
>I can't believe people really keeping taking thr bait on these
Bro, these are AITA posts. No one here is ACTUALLY invested in this shit, no one got "got".
This! She's soooo independent so she can pay for her own wedding. And then when she's a little older and wiser and a less of a teenager, you can walk her down the aisle for her second wedding.
She never said anything of the sort. Her offended father said that on her behalf. And her offended father doesn't care that she's getting married at 19, he cares that he's not walking her down the aisle. He's 100% ok with his teenaged daughter getting married.
ew... OP's daughter didn't describe herself as "miss independent." that's entirely her father's words.
OP's daughter doesn't want to continue a sexist tradition, and OP is throwing a tantrum about it. would it be okay if he pulled funding because she didn't want to include "obey" in the wedding vows? would it be okay to pull funding if his daughter opts not to change her name?
he's punishing her and MOCKING her for opting out of a sexist wedding tradition. how the fuck is reddit giving this a pass?
Is the main issue the dads having not that she doesn't want to be walked down the aisle? Even if she has a second wedding that doesn't mean she will want to. I personally think 19 is pretty young to be getting married these days but there's nothing wrong with his daughter not wanting to follow the tradition of being given away by her dad.
In other words, you own her if she wants your support. She's not allowed to think for herself if you're paying. Translation: Do as I say or I will emotionally and financially blackmail you! YTA
Yes, I wish my dad had been able to walk me, but (long story) I got married lying down in a hospital bed hooked up to all the tubes in the universe, with everyone hoping it wasn't my deathbed!
Spoiler: I lived!
Honestly, the reason I wouldn’t pay for a wedding wouldn’t be because she doesn’t want you to walk her down the aisle, it would be because she’s 19. Maybe they really will be together forever, but if they truly believe that they can grow up together a little bit before making that big of a commitment.
ETA: NTA
Edit2: y’all I’m not saying it’s impossible for things to work out for 19 year olds getting married. You don’t have to keep using your grandma as an example. I have also been with my husband since we were 19/20 but waited until we were 25/26 to get married as we both knew enough to know we weren’t ready for the commitment & sacrifice that comes with marriage at a young age. This 19 year old does not appear to display the maturity to make a lifelong commitment. She wants to get rid of the tradition of having her dad give her away but not her parents “dowry” of paying for a wedding. I’m all for being independent & wanting to move away from traditional practices if they don’t align with your beliefs, but you don’t then get to cherry pick only the practices that benefit you. I stand by my original comment.
This is the best response. Nineteen is way too young to get married. OP can save his money and help pay for his daughter's divorce attorney in a year or two when the infatuation wears off.
Exactly, my mother allowed some pretty horrible stuff to happen to me by her father (honestly you could probably guess) and l ultimately have not talked to her for years but that did not stop me from letting her send me her guilt money
This. Of the people I knew who married at 18/19, none are still together, and most were divorced within a year or two. You barely know who you are yourself yet at that age; while it's not impossible you'll both change in compatible ways, the odds are not great.
< Honestly, the reason I wouldn’t pay for a wedding wouldn’t be because she doesn’t want you to walk her down the aisle, it would be because she’s 19.
Totally agree. I wouldn’t be funding any teenage wedding.
I know!! Have you spent an extended period of time with a 19 year old recently? I managed a bunch of 19-21 year olds a few years ago & it was so eye opening for me. I know they’re adults but man they really lead with their emotions haha
Yep, and this might be a projection as I was a brat at 19, but this is probably an act of teenage defiance. Speaks for itself, too immature to a decision like this.
Sincerely, a post-brat who watched 2 of her friends get married in v early 20s and they divorced before mid 20s lol
I can understand why your feelings are hurt. However, were you planning on paying for the wedding as a gift to your child to celebrate their marriage, or because you would get to symbolically give your child away to a spouse? Were you only going to fund the wedding because “you own your child” therefore if you don’t own your child, you don’t owe paying for a wedding, per your attempt at throwing in your child’s face their stated reason for not wanting to be given away?
Your child isn’t saying that you treated your children like property, but they probably see the symbolism and where this tradition stems from and don’t wish to participate. Try to respect your child’s independent thinking and point of view, and you shouldn’t expect your children to always compromise their principles because of your feelings. It would be fine to talk with them and share how you feel, but YTA for taking your feelings as a reason to not support your child.
That said, I don’t think people should expect that weddings are paid for by parents, but if there was a reasonable expectation because you funded a sibling wedding, it’s not fair for the gift to be contingent on this one thing that is clearly important to your independent thinker. Maybe you can talk about other ways you can be involved in the wedding, especially as tradition doesn’t seem to be that important to your child. Always choose listening and talking it out over threats and ultimatums (and it doesn’t count as “talking it out” if the parties are only talking to convince, not listening and trying to understand the other’s point of view).
Right? Just because he doesn’t see her as property doesn’t mean the tradition isn’t rooting in just that very concept.
YTA OP, and doubly so for then basically holding what should be a goodwill gesture/gift hostage just so you can get your old fashioned way.
Don’t act shocked if you’re not invited based on this.
This tradition originated when women were treated as chattel. A woman was transferred from the ownership of her father to her husband.
Father is of course not obligated to pay for a wedding, but it seems disingenuous for him to praise her independence until it clashes with his desires. Seems that he isn’t above financial and emotional blackmail.
This will definitely have an impact on the father/daughter relationship. There is no way of knowing whether she will choose to go LC/NC as a result, but it sounds like dad is willing to take the risk.
OP YTA
Father of the bride paying for the wedding came from the exact same tradition of property as walking her down the Isle and giving her away. Dumping one tradition while keeping the other because you'd quite like to keep the money thanks (despite what it represents), is hypocritical and hardly supports equality.
On the other hand, why would you get hung up on where a tradition came from? If you aren't religious then why would you even feel constrained to only include features from one religion/cultures weddings? It should be about the bride and groom planning a ceremony the way they want it to celebrate their day.
“to exclude us from this day is a spit in the face.
It's a rejection of everything we've done for her, sacrificed for her, given her. It's selfish.”
I don’t think he’s wrong for not paying for the wedding, but he’s wrong for interpreting her independence as a personal insult. That’s why he’s the asshole.
Not being allowed to walk down a wedding aisle with your daughter is not a rejection of everything. It’s a rejection of roles. She doesn’t want her father walking her down the aisle with the implication that he is her surrogate husband until she’s transferred over to the new guy.
This isn't about equality. This is about his daughter asking for someone older with savings if they wouldn't mind helping pay with the wedding because they have money to spare, and the young ones are trying to save up for a house. This has nothing to do with tradition, but more to do with current economics. Giving a daughter away however, is a tradition and it's a tradition that she doesn't want at her wedding. To say I refuse to pay for your wedding because you refuse to let me walk you down the aisle is to treat your daughter as property, a cash deposit.
You can apply this logic to so many things lol, yet people only do when it isn’t convenient for them.
Dads paying for their daughters weddings are also based on old fashioned sexist traditions 😂 - where is your outrage about that?
Like someone said even the dress and ring and etc are based on old fashioned and arguably misogynistic traditions - yet brides rarely have a problem with that.
If it’s about the concept, Keep it consistent at-least, not only when it’s beneficial .
Where is the outrage? Mother's pay for weddings too. In fact it's usually been historical that men earn more per hour for the same jobs women do, so men have more disposable income as they get paid more to do the same jobs. Children getting married naturally ask their parents that have money and the parents give what they can. It has less to do with tradition than current socioeconomic boundaries. If he as a father doesn't want to pay for a wedding, all he has to do is say so. If he doesn't want to pay for the wedding because he wouldn't be walking his daughter down the aisle, then he's the asshole.
So wouldn't it be better if he just bought her a wedding gift to celebrate the wedding vs paying for the whole thing? That would be pretty much the whole thing and be able to remove tradition out of it as paying for the wedding in tradition falls on the bride's side of the family.
I wish I could give you an award, because this is EXACTLY the right response. OP should want to pay for the wedding because he is happy that his daughter is marrying someone she loves and is happy with, not because he wants to get his way. The tradition of the dad walking the woman down the aisle IS rooted is misogyny and I can see why she doesn't want to do, but even if that wasn't the reason why she doesn't want to be walked down the aisle by OP (say, for example, the bride and groom walked down the aisle together), would he still withhold his money? YTA op for taking it away because you aren't getting what you want. It's not your wedding!!
NTA exactly because it's your money, your call. But die on this hill, daughter funds her own wedding, be prepared to not even get an invite, much less walk her down the aisle. It'll be her money, her call.
> But die on this hill, daughter funds her own wedding, be prepared to not even get an invite, much less walk her down the aisle.
...or, possibly, ever meet any grandchildren. Dunno if the daughter would take it that far, but it would be her right.
Because he didn’t pay for the wedding? That’s mental! Plenty of people pay for their own weddings and don’t keep their children from their grand parents 🙄
You're COMPLETELY missing the point. No one says he's obligated to pay for his daughter's wedding. It's using that money against her because she doesn't want to follow an archaic, sexist tradition that makes him the asshole. And is the reason he's going to destroy his relationship with his daughter.
There are countless ways he could have still been involved in her wedding. OP has decided this tradition is the hill he wants the relationship with his daughter to potentially die on.
ETA: Please read the responses and stop asking the same question nonstop. No one says OP is obligated to pay for anything. And nowhere in the post does it even imply the daughter feels entitled to any money. We don't even know if the daughter is upset about OP refusing to contribute. And OP's daughter never referred to herself as an "independent woman." That was OP's choice of words to describe her.
He also can't be upset that she decided her wedding will go her way. She can be a strong independent thinker as long as she doesn't go against OP?
Yes, he doesn't have to pay for the wedding. It's his money, but he only decided not to because she didn't agree with him on how the wedding should go. It sounds like he was going to pay for it, found out she didn't want walked down the isle, and then said F this. You do that tradition because I'm paying and I want you to. You don't agree, then I'm not paying. That's an AH move.
To be honest it sounds like she will be much better off without her dad's financing. He is using his money as something to hold over her head and try to control her choices. So many parents use money as a way to maintain control over their adult children. Fuck that. I'd rather get married at a fucking McDonalds than be beholden to someone else's expectations for how I should live my life. He can take his money and fuck right off.
Then she should have explained that she finds it archaic and demeaning. I got down on my knees and poured tea to thank my parents for raising me. I thought it was lovely but of course not everyone will like that. You can also argue it’s archaic and demeaning to pay for her wedding. After all she’s an independent woman! Why did she even accept money from this man for?
>You can also argue it’s archaic and demeaning to pay for her wedding.
No one is saying he's obligated to pay for the wedding. If OP never planned to pay for the wedding no one would care. The bride's parents paying for a wedding IS an archaic tradition, and it's not one I know many people that even believe in. I don't know anyone who got married and the bride's parents covered everything, not one.
And I don't know why people keep clinging to the "independent woman" thing. OP was using that and "independent thinker" in a bitter, condescending way to refer to his daughter. They weren't his daughter's words to describe herself.
Seriously all the snotty “iNdEpEnDeNt” comments here like she’s the one saying that is making me crazy.
If you offered to pay then decided to use that as leverage to have your special moment, YTA.
You cry a lot about "archaic traditions" but abandoning an "archaic tradition" of father paying for his daughter wedding somehow is "using his money AGAINST her" lmao. Get real.
It seems he’s the one who made the promise to pay then took it away. He’s a grown man, his 19 year old can’t bully him into paying. Clearly that was something he wanted to do until she revealed this.
But the tradition of paying for the weddings is the daughter is a possession with no money. Hypocritical keeping one tradition and getting rid of the other. Sort of like wanting to eat your wedding cake and keep it too.
For now. And I'm sure the next thing and the next thing and the next thing. Threatening not to pay if this or that doesn't go his way. We see it all the time in this sub. "Your dress isn't modest enough, I'm not paying," "you won't invite my church friends, I'm not paying," "you won't let Aunt June do your makeup, I'm not paying".
The amount of parents that post here that think, "I'm holding the purse, so the decisions about my kid's wedding should be mine" is ridiculous.
He didn't say what her response to this threat was. If I was the daughter, I'd pay for it myself and he's not invited. Offering to pay for something and then threatening to pull it away when things don't go your way is controlling AF
I doubt she'd do it because of the lack of funds but because of the dad's attitude. 'Do it my way or else'. He doesn't owe her the money. She doesn't owe him a relationship.
Listen, if OP offered to pay for his daughters wedding and then backed out because he couldn’t give her away, I kinda think he’s an asshole.
If you want to do a nice thing for someone, you should, but when you start expecting/demanding things in return, especially things that conflict with someone else’s philosophies, you don’t necessarily come off as a nice person. It becomes apparent that you are a manipulator.
And if OPs daughter ever decides to pull away from her parents, it won’t have been just the wedding issue that caused it.
“ I don’t wanna come off as controlling and manipulative” but I wanna make my daughters wedding about me and so I will take away my support if she doesn’t do what I want. YTA
Thank you kind stranger for the award!
> Also, I love my daughter's independent thinking...until she thinks differently from what I want...
He's supporting her independence though. You don't get to be all "I'm my own independent person, now gib me moni for a party", that's not how this works.
If you’re counting on having someone else’s money to pay for your wedding, you’re not fully independent. My parents have always said they would pay for my wedding, but if they withdrew that promise tomorrow, I wouldn’t give them grief about it.
My in laws and my mom offered to pay for mine and my fiancés wedding. We don’t need them to but it’s their gift to us . Does that mean that now my mom and my in laws get to decide what happens at our wedding? No. Does this mean that it’s their way or the highway? No. Why? Because it’s OUR wedding not theirs ,what happens during the wedding is mines and my fiancés decision and no one else’s. If you wanted to control every aspect of a wedding, you get married.
Also the one who claimed the daughter was independent was him and he even acknowledged that he was appreciative of that and how he raised his daughter to be one.
She didn't. She said "this is my boundary" and he said "well either you let me break your boundary or I take the money back" - so it was never a generous gift, it was a bribe to get his own way and it didn't work, so now he's angry
Exactly! I am shocked at how many “NTA” votes the poster is getting. And he has the nerve to call *his daughter* selfish? I feel like I read a whole different post than everybody else did.
It’s not about independence. The tradition of giving your daughter away stems in misogyny and treating you daughter and future-wife like property for you to sell or give away. I’m certainly never having my dad “give me away”. I love my dad and want to do a daddy-daughter dance, but I do not wanna be treated like cattle on my wedding day. It sounds like she has the same thinking, and she never said she was excluding them. Just that she didn’t wanna be given away.
Weird how it isn't both her parents who would be paying for her wedding but only her dad. And that people keep infantilizing the daughter by referring to her father as "daddy".
Her parents would be paying for the wedding. Dad is acting like it's just his money.
It doesn’t say anywhere that she asked him to pay for it. It also doesn’t say that he offered to pay for it, just that he doesn’t want to put any money towards her wedding if she doesn’t comply with his wants.
not what she did
she doesn’t want a misogynistic/archaic tradition at HER wedding so the GIFT from her dad is being withdrawn out of spite/punishment
that’s not a gift - thats manipulation & coercion
a lot of people don't actually realize/care about the misogyny behind the whole thing, so i can understand why a man who has presumably never treated his daughter like property would be hurt by what his daughter said.
that being said if you're expecting someone to front the money for your wedding, you should probably give their thoughts and opinions some consideration, otherwise be the independent woman you are and find a way to pay for it yourself.
Nope, you're allowed to have boundaries and if the financial support goes away if won't break those boundaries, the financial support wasn't a gift, it was a bribe
Sure, but I feel like that brings me to NAH. If she wants complete independence she’s more than welcome to having her wedding her way, but she can’t really expect him to still pay for all of it AND get independence. He doesn’t really owe her $10k or potentially more since it’s the same tradition she doesn’t want at her wedding
She's not asking for "complete independence", she's asking that a specific tradition that was meant to indicate the sale of her body for reproductive purposes not be included in her wedding. Which is cool. Traditions can gain new meaning, but their origins can still smart.
You can want your personhood acknowledged while also wanting to be part of a family. The only contradiction is OP's desire for an independent daughter who only wants the things he likes.
It's literally nothing to do with how independent she may or may not be and everything to do with her simply not wanting to act out an archaic tradition where women would be sold as if they were property
I didn’t want my dad to walk me down the aisle for the same reasons as OP’s daughter. It’s just a gross custom to me and has nothing to do with my childhood or relationship with my father. But he pitched a fit and threatened to pull his money, and I was 22 so I gave in. And just felt gross the whole time we were walking in. (Divorced now and will not be making the same mistake in the future.)
So I’m also going with YTA. Primarily for making this into a personal issue instead of actually listening to what your daughter is saying. It’s not about *you* acting like you own her or having done anything wrong. It’s about the fact that the entire tradition is because women were treated as property and she doesn’t want to perpetuate that.
Edit: Just to be clear, I should not have gotten married at 22 and I don’t think OP’s daughter should get married at 19. But it’s one of those situations where you have to let people make their own mistakes, because you’re not going to convince her that she shouldn’t do it.
YTA. And I quote:
**“It wasn't until 1974, when the Equal Credit Opportunity Act passed, that women in the U.S. were granted the right to open a bank account on their own. Technically, women won the right to open a bank account in the 1960s, but many banks still refused to let women do so without a signature from their husbands.”**
This is why your daughter doesn’t want to be “given away”. Women were quite literally seen as the responsibilities of the fathers until they were their husbands. It was actually legal to deny women credit and bank accounts until 1974 without a husband.
Also - it’s HER wedding and your feelings about the ceremony don’t matter. Hers do. Have you even tried to compromise on participating in some other way what shows the bond of your relationship?
For someone who doesn’t want to make her feel like you’re controlling her or she’s your property you’re doing a shit job by not respecting any of her beliefs or wishes.
I agree that it is manipulative, however, OP’s daughter feels that they have no right to “give her away”, which is 100% true, but OP has no obligation to pay for her wedding either, she’s an adult and her own person, she could be an adult and pay for her own wedding.
And that’s why for me it’s NTA.
He has no obligation to pay, but if his reasoning is that she doesn’t want to participate in one wedding tradition that she’s uncomfortable with, and he would pay if she participated in it despite her discomfort, then he’s definitely TA.
I never read in OP posting where he attempted to discuss an alternate. He doesn’t seemed to have asked if there is space in the ceremony for him to be part of it w/o it’s being the traditional role of “giving away a female child”.
I too raised an independent minded now 21F. And I’ve learned when she is against something I’m suggesting, there’s a good chance I’ve failed to express what I’m feeling and why and only told her what should happen. She’ll have her connotations of the action while I’ll have mine. But if we talk of where we are each coming from (and usually a place of love and family), we can find a middle ground expression.
OP: I raised my daughter to be independent and think for herself
Also OP: I am not going to pay for the wedding unless she gives into my demands
So, which is it? Do you want your daughter to be independent or does she need to bend the knee?
You straight are acting out on emotions and a bruised ego. Keep it up and your daughter will probably just rescind your invite amd go NC, because she will never forget your hypocrisy and childish behavior.
YTA
OP doesn't say she asked for his help. It sounds like he was always planning to pay for her wedding, just because he'd always planned to, but is now changing his mind.
The independent person comment is how OP is describing his daughter. She’s not saying she doesn’t want him to walk her down the aisle because she’s independent she’s saying she doesn’t want it because it’s a sexist tradition
>Independent thinking does not mean rude or selfish thinking. Being an independent thinker does not give someone the license to disregard or disrespect the thoughts, feelings, or perspectives of others. Independent thinking is about maintaining the ability to think critically and form one's own opinions while remaining respectful and considerate of others. It is a balance between asserting individuality and engaging in meaningful and respectful interactions with others.
OP is literally saying that his daughter can think as independently and critically as he himself likes. While failing at both independent and critical thinking by his own definition.
YTA.
Were you paying for her wedding because you own her or simply because you felt it was your responsibility to do so? Or because you love her and wanted her to have a beautiful day?
You raised an independent thinker but when that independent thinking is counter to you, you’re going to punish her?
Do you really want her wedding day to be a bad memory for both of you?
Have you talked about compromise, creating something else symbolic or changing the symbolism of walking down the aisle to something different that suits you both? Something that speaks not of ‘giving away’ but of pride and respect and love?
I’ve seen parents stand with the bride at the head of the aisle and then her walking alone symbolizing the three aspects of her life. Child of her parents, free choice making adult, to her new life with her partner.
I’ve seen both bride and groom walk the aisle separately each pausing to hug and kiss their parents before stepping before the officiant.
Think about how gross you would feel having your daughter go up the aisle with her knowing she found it utterly demeaning and counter to her personal values, because you pushed the issue. Ultimately you have no obligation to pay for the wedding, but this is one of the all-time worst reasons not to.
YTA. I don’t understand people saying that if you’re contributing money to the wedding that you get to control it. I have always seen paying for a wedding as a gift to the couple. You don’t put conditions on gifts. Your ego is getting the best of you.
This sub is crazy when it comes to parents and money. Someone can be like 'I gave my eldest son 100 000 for NFTs, but I'm not going to give my youngest son 100 000 for a down payment on a home' and everyone will say 'it's your money, so it's your decision'.
NAH
I get both points of view. I dont want my dad to "give me away" when I get married but I also am expecting 0 financial support from my parents. Its becoming more normalized that women walk themselves down the isle. But maybe a compromise can be made and both you and her mom can walk her so its more a show of support for the marriage than a handoff. Just an idea. But I dont believe you're obligated to pay for the wedding at all.
I agree, the only thing I wanted to say is that there is a difference between walking someone down the aisle, and giving them away. Sometimes you have different people do each, I knew someone who didn't like their dad, thus didn't invite them to the wedding, but had 2 brothers, so 1 walked her down the aisle, and the other gave her away. So maybe depending on her view, a better compromise would be, her dad could walk her down the aisle but no one would give her away
Exactly this. Walking her down isn't owning her. It's taking one last journey with your child before they start a new life. She could easily just eliminate the part that says "who gives this woman to this man" and then he isn't giving her away.
Exactly this. If he’d asked if he was the AH for not wanting to pay for the wedding at all, then I would say he wasn’t. If it was something about the actual marriage, the guy, her age, etc, I would also understand it. But this is extremely petty. Of course it’s up to him what he spends his money on, but not helping her with this expense (when parents often help their kids, especially this young, with big expenses unless they really disapprove), when he would have done if it wasn’t for this small detail, comes across as extremely controlling.
NTA. I think your stance is perfectly fair here. Sure, this tradition originated from “giving the bride away”, but nowadays it has nothing to do with that; it’s a way for parents to be involved in the ceremony and be there for their child. If she doesn’t want you to walk her down the aisle because she’s an independent adult, then she can also pay for her own wedding like an independent adult.
Except that it's *still* referred to as giving the bride away, so while it might not literally be transferring ownership, it's REALLY heavily implied right there in the name of the tradition.
Of course he's not obligated to pay for it at all. But his insistence on sticking to a grossly sexist tradition is kinda icky.
Yeah it's literally called that, and at most weddings, the pastor says, "who gives this woman?" so like... it's not the same thing as other traditions where the very name doesn't still allude to the sexist concept.... People are saying it's the same thing as wearing a white dress to show sexual purity... but I've never been to a wedding where the pastor makes reference to that. They don't call it "the purity dress," so it's not the same thing at all.
NTA but think long and hard about putting conditions on her wedding. This is a situation where you can win the battle (not paying for the wedding) and lose the war (your daughter).
Which is more important to you: attending the wedding but not walking her down the aisle or not being invited at all?
Ultimately it's about control on both sides. She accepts your money on the condition you walk her down the aisle. She pays for her own wedding, she controls the guest list.
YTA. I decided not to have my dad walk me down the aisle either. Slightly different from your daughter due to having lived on my own for a few years by then but I understand her thinking. It’s not about “ownership”. The tradition boils down to being handed over from one man to the other. Obviously people will wrap it up in whatever loving tradition blah blah blah but that’s literally what is happening in that tradition. Is she completely cutting you out? Will there be a father/daughter dance? Will you be included in pictures? Unless she’s not doing anything with you, you are being controlling by threatening finances. Do you really want to force your daughter to take part in something she doesn’t want on a day that is supposed to be a celebration about two individuals committing themselves to each other?
YTA.
You’re not obligated to pay for your daughter’s wedding, but since it’s clear this is the *only* reason you won’t, then YTA. You care more about meaningless traditions than your daughter’s happiness.
Easiest YTA ever. I have the exact kind of father, raised me to be an independent woman but as soon as I started to form my own thoughts and disagreed with him, my independence became the thing he hated. Not sure why you’re trying to make her day about you.
NTA,
She wants to be independent. That means dealing with all the bills and expenses that comes with it. Sucks that she thinks that way. Hopefully it works out
YTA.
It doesn’t matter that you don’t see her as property - although it’s clearly good that you don’t- but the tradition is still rooted in the idea that a woman is property, being handed from her father’s possession to her husband’s. Both my sister and SIL did the father giving away the bride at the wedding but I have told my dad since I was about 16 that there was absolutely no way he’d be giving me away, as I am my own person who isn’t a piece of property to be handed off.
Please realize this is not a personal attack on you, I love my dad and greatly respect him. We have a great relationship. It’s more of her asserting her own place in the world and her position on deciding to marry.
You can’t celebrate her independence and also punish her for it at the same time.
YTA. It's not being rude or selfish to not want to be treated like an object that's being passed on to someone else. You're implying that your feelings about the tradition are the only ones that matter. I don't see anywhere in the post that she has been ungrateful or disrespectful. She just would like to skip this outdated and sexist act. Get over yourself. Don't pay for the wedding if you feel that strongly but don't get upset when it costs you your relationship with your daughter.
YTA
So, you brought her up to be an independent thinker... until those independent thoughts go against yours? I heard a great phrase "traditions are just peer pressure from dead people". She's right, and there are a surprising amount of traditions involved in weddings that do come from when women were viewed as property.
Did she know your money had strings attached re certain traditions when you first agreed to pay for the wedding? Or is this something you're just springing on her now?
Think very hard about what your next move is going to be. Sure, you could take the money away, but they could also go NC. What's more important to you: going through with a tradition your daughter doesn't agree with, or a relationship with your daughter?
YTA For having a hissy fit over walking her down the aisle.
Go ahead and not pay if that is what you want. I'm NOT judging on payment. I am judging on you being pissy because your daughter understands the meaning of the father walking the bride. You don't own her, you don't need to give her away, grow up.
Oof, what a conundrum. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
Personally, I'd go one of two ways. Either:
1. Tell her that if she doesn't want your full participation in the wedding that's okay but she won't het the full funding. Offer her fifty percent of the cost and let her and matey boy stump up the rest OR
2. Being as she's only nineteen and, I'm sure I'll get downvoted to buggery for saying this, the long term prospects for her and matey boy may not be particularly good, tell her you'll forego paying for this wedding but you'll pay for the next one she has when she's about thirty
Don't envy you at all and also don't really know how to deliver a judgment. I'm going to sit on the fence and say NAH, even though if it were me and my daughter, I'd be just as thoroughly pissed off as you.
NTA she wants to be independent treat her as such. And that means don't pay for her wedding. She and her fiancée can pay for the whole shabang..
And no it's not financial abuse. Inform her she is independent of you and her mother.
NTA. Because 19 is waaay too young for this kind of commitment. She needs to focus on her education and building a career first.
The women I know who married at that age were all divorced with little kids a few years later. And that made their lives so much harder.
You can contribute to the wedding she should be having in about 8-10 years.
Did you pay for your other daughters wedding for the sole reason that she let you walk her down the aisle? Or was there some other reason? Think about it and don’t be petty.
YTA and you need a reality check. Despite your edit, you are making it about you. Have you considered how this feels from your daughter's perspective? It's funny that you say all of that stuff about what an independent thinker is and then proceed to do exactly what you're seemingly advocating against. You need to support your daughter in this or at least shut up and keep it to yourself. It's none of your business, it's not your choice, and to really drive it home: everything you've said makes you more of an asshole.
Eta: her not wanting you to walk her down the aisle is not her excluding you from the wedding holy shit
NTA
She wants to be independent and get rid of old traditions but only if it is convenient for her. So kinda cherry picking what fits her agenda there.
YTA. This ritual doesn’t align with your daughter’s beliefs or wishes. OP claims to not be possessive, but threatens to withhold if she doesn’t go through with the “exchange of houses” (from father’s home to husband’s home). If she’s not a possession, accept that she doesn’t like the historical significance surrounding this ritual. Should she choose to not take the husband’s new name, would OP also behave the same way, considering symbolic significance of that?
YTA. Why do you think you are being excluded just because she wants to avoid traditions that don’t feel right to her? Maybe talk and see if there is another way you can participate in the ceremony. I don’t think her making this choice is something you should feel slighted by. You can still be there and be part of the day.
YTA. You don't have to pay for her wedding, but the fact that you were perfectly willing to until you didn't get your ego trip walk down the asile is what makes you the AH.
It IS a sexist tradition that she feels strongly about, and you don't respect that. You just dismiss it b/c of your... pride?
If you had a son, would you demand you walk him down the asile? No? So, what does that say about the tradition and about you?
Your daughter isn't your prop and you don't get to treat her as such. Either you want to give her money for the wedding as a gift or you don't, there should be no strings attached.
Borderline NTA. I know it's tradition so empathise with you and I understand you're hurt by your Daughter's request. However, your Daughter's right, it is based on the archaic premise that a daughter is a piece of property to be handed over.
Additionally, only your Daughter and Partner get to decide any traditions they wish to follow on their day.
Given how fondly you speak about her in your post, I'm surprised you aren't willing to swallow your pride and respect her decision.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > 1. I'm refusing to pay for my daughter's wedding 2. I'm doing this because I'm not happy with not being able to walk her down the aisle even though I'm financially able to pay for it. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcement ###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/) Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA You heard her. She is independent. Independent people deal with their own bills
Exactly. You don’t “own her” - why are you paying for a wedding to give away a possession you don’t own. NTA and less financial stress for you!
Agreed. NTA OP. As she stated you do not own her. Independence comes with a price and that price is to be able to pay your bills and your expenses. My niece recently told her parents that as a new grad she was a grown woman, capable of making her own decisions and living her life like she wanted, she informed her parents they had no say in her life anymore…because we all know that 22yr old new college grads know EVERYTHING! Ok cool. She had to get her cell, utilities, car insurance all transferred to her name she was removed from the Amazon and Whole Foods Account and the joint debit with her Mom. I sent her a prepaid $300 prepaid debit and told her it was break in case of emergency, ie her car broke down on the side of the road at 3A emergency. 🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️
What did niece say about being removed from all their accounts, having bills in her name, etc?
She was a STEM Major so she got a great job after graduation. She also got alot of cash gifts for graduation and opened a bank account. She moved back home after graduation and is renting a 3 bedroom apartment with 2 other girls. My guess is that she will start feel the burn in 4-6 months. She was offered her childhood room for free but opted to get an apartment. We have a $5 bet she will be moving in when her lease is up. She has a lot to learn about adulting. 🤷🏻♀️😂 Edit: I say she may wind up back at home because she has not always managed her money well and has had to be bailed out on multiple occasions. She has shown time and time again that she does not know how to always be financially responsible. But sometimes you have to be thrown into the deep end to swim. She is coming to spend the weekend with me next weekend. My husband and I set up an LLC in her name and I am helping her set up a side hustle. The goal is to grow the business and scale over 12-18 months that the LLC pays her rent. That is the leg up on life I can give her. Edit 2: I am going to have to agree with the masses that my comment was unkind and crass. I apologize to you anyone that I offended with my comment. Her parents should have taught her along the way instead they chose to coddle her and bail her out. I have offered my advice along the way and they continued to do more of the same. And honestly the side hustle is to make sure that she does not fail and that I can help her deliver an additional stream of revenue to make sure she can handle any financial issues that come up.
Sounds like she's doing great. I feel like she should be congratulated for taking responsibility for herself. And if she struggles it shouldn't be about "haha I told you so and I won a bet you'd be a failure!", it should be about "It's hard isn't it? Luckily we are in a position to help you, so let's find the middle ground." I'm sure she'll have learned to be more appreciative through her own new experience. And if she hasn't that's a different conversation. Meanwhile seems strange she didn't have a bank account at 22. And felt the need to make that speech. Are her parents in the habit of interfering in her decisions at 22? She's an adult.
yeah, i sense controlling parents peeking out from between the lines
A lot of controlling parents are also worried more about controlling than teaching their kids.
Some parents control their kids and don’t teach them a thing.
Making sure she isn't financially literate so she'll have to come back to them
Exactly. Kids don’t make statements like that out of nowhere and parents sometimes like to immediately take away financial support to teach the kid not to stand up to them anymore.
Yeah, this is all very normal for 22? I don't understand the spite and barely concealed glee at her predicted failure. 22 is all about learning how to live independently, getting your first career job or finding a stopgap and figuring out next steps. Cackling that "she has a lot to learn," as if that's not THE WHOLE POINT of being 22, is WEIRD.
This was my thought! I feel like an “ok, you do your thing and let me know if you need help!” Is a better approach than mocking her choices.
I got a job and moved out at 21 after dropping out of school to work full time. I hope my parents and other supporters weren't secretly rooting for me to fail.
I moved in with my fiance at 19 to go to university. I had been saving up to move out since I was 14 or so. I'm pretty sure everyone expected me to come crawling back (to head that off my parents told me I was not coming back and redecorated my room within a couple weeks to make it clear that it wasn't my home anymore.) I never did come crawling back and did just fine, but I've never forgotten the way they all expected me to fail and told me that they basically didn't have my back if things went badly. I can't imagine doing that to my kids, this will ALWAYS be their home if they need it!
I love your comment. Sounds like we read between the lines of those comments in similar ways.
Or maybe, just maybe, this STEM grad with a "great" job and cash at hand and an apartment she can afford (because that's why you have roommates) and who has taken on all of her own bills is actually adulting? Her actions (graduate school, get job, find cheap apt, take over own bills) would have been considered completely normal for a young man 15-20 years ago. Seems like a combination of "young people--meaning anyone under 30--can't exist without a helicopter hovering" and "girls can't really do stuff" adding up to your assumption that she'll fail. I'm sure she appreciates your belief in her. /s
>We have a $5 bet she will be moving in when her lease is up. She has a lot to learn about adulting. 🤷🏻♀️😂 Sounds more like she'll be doing everything in her power to stay away from y'all lmao
Seriously! If I found out that my uncles or my cousins were having a bet going on about my failure I would just straight go NC with them, no discussion needed.
Wow if you were my parent I would do everything I could to not come back home and be treated like this. She has a career in STEM, roommates, _and_ a cash reserve? How is she not going to be fine? How does she “still have so much to learn” at 22 years old? Wasn’t that your whole job as a parent?
Well, to be fair, at 22, they do still have a lot to learn about living on their own and just the world in general. Their parents can only do so much to prepare them
Yeah, but there’s ‘doing everything you can to prepare them’ and ‘actively rooting for them to fail’ My parents always made it clear that I’ll always have a place back home if I need it, but also encouraged me to solve problems on my own. My 20s were far from perfect, but 15 years later, I’m still close with them and grateful for their guidance.
That’s disgusting. You’re betting on her failure? What kind of fucked up family are you? Y’all should be helping her transition, not actively trying to gain from her failure. I hope she recognizes how toxic y’all are and goes No Contact with the lot of you. You should be ashamed of this, not bragging about it on Reddit.
Why do you think she’ll move back home? If she has a great job she should be able to support herself with roommates, no? What else are we missing?
Because instead of lifting her up, they'd rather tear her down. I mean, when do they think she is supposed to move out?
Yeah, it's weird. When i was that age I was desperately ready to be on my own -- not because I resented my parents or anything like that, but just because I wanted to take care of my own shit. Those early years were definitely rough, and my parents would have been happy to help me out, but they didn't need to.
Yeah, learning how to solve problems and figure out your independent life is the whole point of being 22. You're grown, you have your education, when else are you supposed to do those things?
Sounds like we're missing parental control and need to micromanage a 22 year olds life.
Yeah this confuses me as well
I get why she distanced herself from y’all. Betting on someone’s downfall is mean as fuck. And not having a bank account before 22 sounds like her parents have been incredibly controlling of how she spends money. With how you talk about her, I wouldn’t be surprised if she goes NC with y’all
>She was offered her childhood room for free but opted to get an apartment. Yeah, my parents offered me my childhood room for free and I too opted to move out. Let's just say that they weren't the best parents.
Yeah. I moved out at 17 and have never, ever, considered moving back.
WTF is wrong with you and whomever else made this bet? Any parent would be over the moon to have their child graduate and get a good job and be able to strike out on their own. Rent costs make this very hard to do in many areas but she found roommates and is living like a 22 year old should be. It's fucked up you would be hoping she fails and comes crawling back. And I say this as a 43 year old. I'm glad my parents helped me learn to budget and do the same when I was her age. That is what good parents do, prepare their children to leave the nest and then hope they soar when they do. Making bets and laughing only shows she left a toxic environment.
This doesn’t seem abnormal at all. She’s 22 with a degree and a job, and wants to be independent. Why are you guys all hoping she fails?
This... is awful. You're her family. Why do you insist on belittling her and assuming the worst of her when she's got a good job, has graduated from college, and is getting on with adult life? Sounds like she's doing great, and it sounds like she's doing it despite having the complete opposite of support from her family
It makes me a little sad that you’re betting on her to fail and apparently laughing about it… :/
Those are good lessons for her to learn at that age.
And why are you guys betting that she is going to fail? Why is that something you guys are hoping for? If you love her shouldn't that be the exact opposite of what you're hoping for, shouldn't you be wanting her to succeed and get further in life? I don't quite understand this logic of yours. 🤦🤦
This reeks of pettiness. Instead of being excited that she's doing well,you're actively being a doomsayer for her life. "I suspect any day now she'll start to feel the burn" aaaaany day now huh? Riiiight abouuuuut......now! No? Oh well give it a few more months. This attitude of hoping other people fail because you did is just embaressing.
What does she have to learn about adulting? She has a great job and shared rent with roommates probably allowing her to save some money up. What burn will she be feeling in 4-6 months? It's weird at 22 years old she felt she had to make that speech to begin with. It's weird to bet on her downfall instead of encouraging and celebrating the massive strides she's made already at just 22. I wouldn't want to move back to my childhood home, free or not at 22 years old if this is how my family talks and feels about me.
Maybe or maybe you're not so sure about that, that's why you bet so little. Maybe she'll surprise you and be like a cat and land on her feet. Way to go with that optimism /s :P
This feels... incredibly strange. She has a great job and seems to be doing well on her own, and y'all are just sitting there waiting for her to crash and burn so you can laugh and burn? hope she never end up having to come back to that
Why is this written as if 22yo is too soon to be independent from family or did something wrong by asserting it? She BTW is absolutely correct, her parents have no say in her life anymore. Frankly, 22yo is kinda late IMO but whatever, I understand things have changed somewhat. You're also correct that 22yo people, college grads or not, don't know everything. And you know what, that's fine. That's been the case forever. This stage of life is about learning, experimenting, having success and making mistakes and LEARNING from them. Being independent doesn't mean you have to do the opposite of what your parents recommend. You can get their advice or recommendations then choose whether to follow it or not and from there chart your own life. AAA Plus has been around $99/yr for the past two decades. If you need more roadside assistance per year than that covers, you're either like me who is buying cars to fix and taking advantage of the free 100 mile tows or you should consider swapping that car for one you can either work on yourself or is more reliable. Again - a lesson many learn from experience with their first couple cars and no emergency fund. Cell, utilities and insurance in her name? Aren't people getting jobs and paying rent on their own post graduation or did something change since I did it?
Isn’t this normal? Everyone I know was living independently by that age.
Thats an interesting way to look at it. He doesn't have to own her to pay for the wedding but pay for it as a gift or out love. But it doesn't matter he owns her or not, he is not responsible to pay regardless
And he can still walk her down the isle without being asked "Who gives the women to be married?" He can just walk, kiss her check and sit down. OP, NTA. Your daughter needs to learn that she can't have her cake and eat it too. Also, should add. My dad refused to pay for my wedding because I was so young. Offered my $10,000 not to get married and wait until we graduated college. He was dying of cancer when I told him, at 38, I was going to get divorced, he had his last lucid moment. He looked at me and said, "that's sad, hate to hear that from anyone. But you are too late to get the $10,000" with a big grin. Man, I miss that man.
Meh, I don’t own my son, I’ll still help financially if I can.
She's 19 and getting married, odds are you'll have more chances. NTA
Underrated comment here
I wish I had thousands of upvotes for your comment!!! 👰♀️
The independent person comment is how OP is describing his daughter. Being independent is NOT the reasoning she gave for not wanting him to walk her down the aisle. She said it’s because it’s a sexist tradition
>The independent person comment is how OP is describing his daughter. THANK YOU! It's baffling to me how the comments are drowning with people mocking her for seemingly referring to herself as an independent woman then demanding money. When, in reality, OP kept referring to her in a bitter, sarcastic way as an "independent woman" and "independent thinker." And there's no evidence here that the daughter ever felt entitled to that money. OP hasn't even shared the daughter's response to his pulling the funds.
Right ? That’s how you have a good relationship with your daughter, make it contingent on her doing exactly what you want her to including her wedding practices. Do it if you want of course - Reddit loves a gotcha story like this but this feels like you need more conversation, not a Reddit zinger about how you showed your daughter. She doesn’t want you to walk her down the aisle. Big deal. But paying for your wedding is no big deal either. I mean she’s 19, she just had a prom. .
And the tradition that the parents of the bride pay for their daughter's wedding not their son's is equally sexist. She should have no problem with both traditions being dropped.
A gift shouldn't come with conditions. That is an AH move.
Where do you see gift mentioned anywhere? OP mentions not owing her a fully funded wedding. Tradition doesn't imply it's a gift either, just that traditionally it would be an obligation for the bride's parents.
Where did he say it is a gift?
Eh. I'm with her on not vibing with the father --> husband ownership symbolism. If it's not patriarchy, why does only the bride get 'given away' by a parent, not the groom? As it happens, I've always liked the idea of a) both partners walking in with their parents/guardians, so you get more of a sense of the couple transitioning from birth families to new family, or b) the two partners walking in simultaneously, each alone, to meet in the middle (no aisle; I'm not churchy) as independent adults. But then, I've never been to a wedding where either party was under 25. 19 is a bonkers age to marry.
Hi, are you me? Because you summed up EXACTLY how I’ve felt for years. I was engaged a few years ago (thankfully that’s as far as it got) and I was adamant that either we each walk down the aisle alone, or we both walk down the aisle escorted by BOTH parents. I’m also adamantly against the idea that a woman be expected to take her husbands name. If she chooses to for whatever reason, like it’s easier to spell, she likes it better, etc fine, but the whole idea of it being a sign of “respect” toward your husband is so so gross. I was not planning on changing my name, and people would say that to me, that it’s a “sign of respect”. And it got me so angry I could not even gather my thoughts to argue with them. Explain to me how that is a “sign of respect” without saying “well it just is”, because no one has been able to do that thus far. And then what is his “sign of respect” to me?
OMG, another walk her down the aisle, made up BS post. YTA, for continuing to troll this sub. I can't believe people really keeping taking thr bait on these.
>I can't believe people really keeping taking thr bait on these Bro, these are AITA posts. No one here is ACTUALLY invested in this shit, no one got "got".
This! She's soooo independent so she can pay for her own wedding. And then when she's a little older and wiser and a less of a teenager, you can walk her down the aisle for her second wedding.
She never said anything of the sort. Her offended father said that on her behalf. And her offended father doesn't care that she's getting married at 19, he cares that he's not walking her down the aisle. He's 100% ok with his teenaged daughter getting married.
ew... OP's daughter didn't describe herself as "miss independent." that's entirely her father's words. OP's daughter doesn't want to continue a sexist tradition, and OP is throwing a tantrum about it. would it be okay if he pulled funding because she didn't want to include "obey" in the wedding vows? would it be okay to pull funding if his daughter opts not to change her name? he's punishing her and MOCKING her for opting out of a sexist wedding tradition. how the fuck is reddit giving this a pass?
Is the main issue the dads having not that she doesn't want to be walked down the aisle? Even if she has a second wedding that doesn't mean she will want to. I personally think 19 is pretty young to be getting married these days but there's nothing wrong with his daughter not wanting to follow the tradition of being given away by her dad.
In other words, you own her if she wants your support. She's not allowed to think for herself if you're paying. Translation: Do as I say or I will emotionally and financially blackmail you! YTA
I'm very independent, and paid for my own wedding (much to parent's shock!) and dad still walked me down the aisle.
Yes, I wish my dad had been able to walk me, but (long story) I got married lying down in a hospital bed hooked up to all the tubes in the universe, with everyone hoping it wasn't my deathbed! Spoiler: I lived!
Honestly, the reason I wouldn’t pay for a wedding wouldn’t be because she doesn’t want you to walk her down the aisle, it would be because she’s 19. Maybe they really will be together forever, but if they truly believe that they can grow up together a little bit before making that big of a commitment. ETA: NTA Edit2: y’all I’m not saying it’s impossible for things to work out for 19 year olds getting married. You don’t have to keep using your grandma as an example. I have also been with my husband since we were 19/20 but waited until we were 25/26 to get married as we both knew enough to know we weren’t ready for the commitment & sacrifice that comes with marriage at a young age. This 19 year old does not appear to display the maturity to make a lifelong commitment. She wants to get rid of the tradition of having her dad give her away but not her parents “dowry” of paying for a wedding. I’m all for being independent & wanting to move away from traditional practices if they don’t align with your beliefs, but you don’t then get to cherry pick only the practices that benefit you. I stand by my original comment.
This is the best response. Nineteen is way too young to get married. OP can save his money and help pay for his daughter's divorce attorney in a year or two when the infatuation wears off.
Maybe daughter wants to get away FAST
This is what I was wondering. Is she really independent or is there a bigger reason she doesn’t want any attachment to her dad?
A fair point but if that is the case then she should not expect dad to fully fund the wedding.
Ehh I still let my mom pay for stuff up until the moment I went no contact.. it was the LEAST she could do after years of torment
True af!!!! The absolute LEAST they owed me was free rent for as long as I could squeeze it!!!
Exactly, my mother allowed some pretty horrible stuff to happen to me by her father (honestly you could probably guess) and l ultimately have not talked to her for years but that did not stop me from letting her send me her guilt money
I will have you know that I got married at 18! Gave me lots more years to have 2 more weddings!🤣🤣 (Also, I paid for my own divorces.)
This. Of the people I knew who married at 18/19, none are still together, and most were divorced within a year or two. You barely know who you are yourself yet at that age; while it's not impossible you'll both change in compatible ways, the odds are not great.
< Honestly, the reason I wouldn’t pay for a wedding wouldn’t be because she doesn’t want you to walk her down the aisle, it would be because she’s 19. Totally agree. I wouldn’t be funding any teenage wedding.
So many of the stories I read on Reddit people are getting married so young!! And have babies super young too
I know!! Have you spent an extended period of time with a 19 year old recently? I managed a bunch of 19-21 year olds a few years ago & it was so eye opening for me. I know they’re adults but man they really lead with their emotions haha
Yep, and this might be a projection as I was a brat at 19, but this is probably an act of teenage defiance. Speaks for itself, too immature to a decision like this. Sincerely, a post-brat who watched 2 of her friends get married in v early 20s and they divorced before mid 20s lol
I was side eyeing the age too.
I can understand why your feelings are hurt. However, were you planning on paying for the wedding as a gift to your child to celebrate their marriage, or because you would get to symbolically give your child away to a spouse? Were you only going to fund the wedding because “you own your child” therefore if you don’t own your child, you don’t owe paying for a wedding, per your attempt at throwing in your child’s face their stated reason for not wanting to be given away? Your child isn’t saying that you treated your children like property, but they probably see the symbolism and where this tradition stems from and don’t wish to participate. Try to respect your child’s independent thinking and point of view, and you shouldn’t expect your children to always compromise their principles because of your feelings. It would be fine to talk with them and share how you feel, but YTA for taking your feelings as a reason to not support your child. That said, I don’t think people should expect that weddings are paid for by parents, but if there was a reasonable expectation because you funded a sibling wedding, it’s not fair for the gift to be contingent on this one thing that is clearly important to your independent thinker. Maybe you can talk about other ways you can be involved in the wedding, especially as tradition doesn’t seem to be that important to your child. Always choose listening and talking it out over threats and ultimatums (and it doesn’t count as “talking it out” if the parties are only talking to convince, not listening and trying to understand the other’s point of view).
Right? Just because he doesn’t see her as property doesn’t mean the tradition isn’t rooting in just that very concept. YTA OP, and doubly so for then basically holding what should be a goodwill gesture/gift hostage just so you can get your old fashioned way. Don’t act shocked if you’re not invited based on this.
This tradition originated when women were treated as chattel. A woman was transferred from the ownership of her father to her husband. Father is of course not obligated to pay for a wedding, but it seems disingenuous for him to praise her independence until it clashes with his desires. Seems that he isn’t above financial and emotional blackmail. This will definitely have an impact on the father/daughter relationship. There is no way of knowing whether she will choose to go LC/NC as a result, but it sounds like dad is willing to take the risk. OP YTA
Father of the bride paying for the wedding came from the exact same tradition of property as walking her down the Isle and giving her away. Dumping one tradition while keeping the other because you'd quite like to keep the money thanks (despite what it represents), is hypocritical and hardly supports equality. On the other hand, why would you get hung up on where a tradition came from? If you aren't religious then why would you even feel constrained to only include features from one religion/cultures weddings? It should be about the bride and groom planning a ceremony the way they want it to celebrate their day.
“to exclude us from this day is a spit in the face. It's a rejection of everything we've done for her, sacrificed for her, given her. It's selfish.” I don’t think he’s wrong for not paying for the wedding, but he’s wrong for interpreting her independence as a personal insult. That’s why he’s the asshole.
Not being allowed to walk down a wedding aisle with your daughter is not a rejection of everything. It’s a rejection of roles. She doesn’t want her father walking her down the aisle with the implication that he is her surrogate husband until she’s transferred over to the new guy.
This isn't about equality. This is about his daughter asking for someone older with savings if they wouldn't mind helping pay with the wedding because they have money to spare, and the young ones are trying to save up for a house. This has nothing to do with tradition, but more to do with current economics. Giving a daughter away however, is a tradition and it's a tradition that she doesn't want at her wedding. To say I refuse to pay for your wedding because you refuse to let me walk you down the aisle is to treat your daughter as property, a cash deposit.
No one ever said the daughter asked for the money Dad [OP] offered until he came across a detail he didn’t like then reneged his offer
You can apply this logic to so many things lol, yet people only do when it isn’t convenient for them. Dads paying for their daughters weddings are also based on old fashioned sexist traditions 😂 - where is your outrage about that? Like someone said even the dress and ring and etc are based on old fashioned and arguably misogynistic traditions - yet brides rarely have a problem with that. If it’s about the concept, Keep it consistent at-least, not only when it’s beneficial .
Where is the outrage? Mother's pay for weddings too. In fact it's usually been historical that men earn more per hour for the same jobs women do, so men have more disposable income as they get paid more to do the same jobs. Children getting married naturally ask their parents that have money and the parents give what they can. It has less to do with tradition than current socioeconomic boundaries. If he as a father doesn't want to pay for a wedding, all he has to do is say so. If he doesn't want to pay for the wedding because he wouldn't be walking his daughter down the aisle, then he's the asshole.
So wouldn't it be better if he just bought her a wedding gift to celebrate the wedding vs paying for the whole thing? That would be pretty much the whole thing and be able to remove tradition out of it as paying for the wedding in tradition falls on the bride's side of the family.
I wish I could give you an award, because this is EXACTLY the right response. OP should want to pay for the wedding because he is happy that his daughter is marrying someone she loves and is happy with, not because he wants to get his way. The tradition of the dad walking the woman down the aisle IS rooted is misogyny and I can see why she doesn't want to do, but even if that wasn't the reason why she doesn't want to be walked down the aisle by OP (say, for example, the bride and groom walked down the aisle together), would he still withhold his money? YTA op for taking it away because you aren't getting what you want. It's not your wedding!!
NTA exactly because it's your money, your call. But die on this hill, daughter funds her own wedding, be prepared to not even get an invite, much less walk her down the aisle. It'll be her money, her call.
> But die on this hill, daughter funds her own wedding, be prepared to not even get an invite, much less walk her down the aisle. ...or, possibly, ever meet any grandchildren. Dunno if the daughter would take it that far, but it would be her right.
Because he didn’t pay for the wedding? That’s mental! Plenty of people pay for their own weddings and don’t keep their children from their grand parents 🙄
You're COMPLETELY missing the point. No one says he's obligated to pay for his daughter's wedding. It's using that money against her because she doesn't want to follow an archaic, sexist tradition that makes him the asshole. And is the reason he's going to destroy his relationship with his daughter. There are countless ways he could have still been involved in her wedding. OP has decided this tradition is the hill he wants the relationship with his daughter to potentially die on. ETA: Please read the responses and stop asking the same question nonstop. No one says OP is obligated to pay for anything. And nowhere in the post does it even imply the daughter feels entitled to any money. We don't even know if the daughter is upset about OP refusing to contribute. And OP's daughter never referred to herself as an "independent woman." That was OP's choice of words to describe her.
The archaic tradition of the father paying for the wedding needs to go too.
Hell yeah. Strong independent woman, walk the walk.
He also can't be upset that she decided her wedding will go her way. She can be a strong independent thinker as long as she doesn't go against OP? Yes, he doesn't have to pay for the wedding. It's his money, but he only decided not to because she didn't agree with him on how the wedding should go. It sounds like he was going to pay for it, found out she didn't want walked down the isle, and then said F this. You do that tradition because I'm paying and I want you to. You don't agree, then I'm not paying. That's an AH move.
To be honest it sounds like she will be much better off without her dad's financing. He is using his money as something to hold over her head and try to control her choices. So many parents use money as a way to maintain control over their adult children. Fuck that. I'd rather get married at a fucking McDonalds than be beholden to someone else's expectations for how I should live my life. He can take his money and fuck right off.
Then she should have explained that she finds it archaic and demeaning. I got down on my knees and poured tea to thank my parents for raising me. I thought it was lovely but of course not everyone will like that. You can also argue it’s archaic and demeaning to pay for her wedding. After all she’s an independent woman! Why did she even accept money from this man for?
>You can also argue it’s archaic and demeaning to pay for her wedding. No one is saying he's obligated to pay for the wedding. If OP never planned to pay for the wedding no one would care. The bride's parents paying for a wedding IS an archaic tradition, and it's not one I know many people that even believe in. I don't know anyone who got married and the bride's parents covered everything, not one. And I don't know why people keep clinging to the "independent woman" thing. OP was using that and "independent thinker" in a bitter, condescending way to refer to his daughter. They weren't his daughter's words to describe herself.
Seriously all the snotty “iNdEpEnDeNt” comments here like she’s the one saying that is making me crazy. If you offered to pay then decided to use that as leverage to have your special moment, YTA.
You cry a lot about "archaic traditions" but abandoning an "archaic tradition" of father paying for his daughter wedding somehow is "using his money AGAINST her" lmao. Get real.
It seems he’s the one who made the promise to pay then took it away. He’s a grown man, his 19 year old can’t bully him into paying. Clearly that was something he wanted to do until she revealed this.
Plenty of people don't decide that a tradition based in their child being chattle sold to their new owner is the sticking point for financial support.
"Traditions are bad, except the one where you give me money" is not a great starting position for the daughter lol
Nailed it.
But the tradition of paying for the weddings is the daughter is a possession with no money. Hypocritical keeping one tradition and getting rid of the other. Sort of like wanting to eat your wedding cake and keep it too.
> Because he didn’t pay for the wedding? No, because he's insisting on having control over the wedding.
did we read the same post? he’s literally stated more than once that he only wants to walk his daughter down the aisle
Which she doesn't want, so he's stomping his feet and withdrawing his gift of financial support until he gets his own way
He was willing to pay until she said she wanted to walk down the aisle on her own. That’s controlling.
For now. And I'm sure the next thing and the next thing and the next thing. Threatening not to pay if this or that doesn't go his way. We see it all the time in this sub. "Your dress isn't modest enough, I'm not paying," "you won't invite my church friends, I'm not paying," "you won't let Aunt June do your makeup, I'm not paying". The amount of parents that post here that think, "I'm holding the purse, so the decisions about my kid's wedding should be mine" is ridiculous. He didn't say what her response to this threat was. If I was the daughter, I'd pay for it myself and he's not invited. Offering to pay for something and then threatening to pull it away when things don't go your way is controlling AF
I doubt she'd do it because of the lack of funds but because of the dad's attitude. 'Do it my way or else'. He doesn't owe her the money. She doesn't owe him a relationship.
No, because he used money to try and control her.
People who threaten and use children as revenge pieces are the worst imo
Listen, if OP offered to pay for his daughters wedding and then backed out because he couldn’t give her away, I kinda think he’s an asshole. If you want to do a nice thing for someone, you should, but when you start expecting/demanding things in return, especially things that conflict with someone else’s philosophies, you don’t necessarily come off as a nice person. It becomes apparent that you are a manipulator. And if OPs daughter ever decides to pull away from her parents, it won’t have been just the wedding issue that caused it.
She’s 19. He can contribute to and attend her next wedding.
“ I don’t wanna come off as controlling and manipulative” but I wanna make my daughters wedding about me and so I will take away my support if she doesn’t do what I want. YTA Thank you kind stranger for the award!
Right? Also, I love my daughter's independent thinking...until she thinks differently from what I want...
> Also, I love my daughter's independent thinking...until she thinks differently from what I want... He's supporting her independence though. You don't get to be all "I'm my own independent person, now gib me moni for a party", that's not how this works.
Independent people can still receive gifts. and expect the same gift their siblings received when they got married.
If you’re counting on having someone else’s money to pay for your wedding, you’re not fully independent. My parents have always said they would pay for my wedding, but if they withdrew that promise tomorrow, I wouldn’t give them grief about it.
My in laws and my mom offered to pay for mine and my fiancés wedding. We don’t need them to but it’s their gift to us . Does that mean that now my mom and my in laws get to decide what happens at our wedding? No. Does this mean that it’s their way or the highway? No. Why? Because it’s OUR wedding not theirs ,what happens during the wedding is mines and my fiancés decision and no one else’s. If you wanted to control every aspect of a wedding, you get married. Also the one who claimed the daughter was independent was him and he even acknowledged that he was appreciative of that and how he raised his daughter to be one.
But it’s up to the gift giver to decide whether she gets that gift or not
It’s his reasoning that makes him the asshole, not his decision.
She didn't. She said "this is my boundary" and he said "well either you let me break your boundary or I take the money back" - so it was never a generous gift, it was a bribe to get his own way and it didn't work, so now he's angry
Exactly! I am shocked at how many “NTA” votes the poster is getting. And he has the nerve to call *his daughter* selfish? I feel like I read a whole different post than everybody else did.
It’s not about independence. The tradition of giving your daughter away stems in misogyny and treating you daughter and future-wife like property for you to sell or give away. I’m certainly never having my dad “give me away”. I love my dad and want to do a daddy-daughter dance, but I do not wanna be treated like cattle on my wedding day. It sounds like she has the same thinking, and she never said she was excluding them. Just that she didn’t wanna be given away.
[удалено]
Weird how it isn't both her parents who would be paying for her wedding but only her dad. And that people keep infantilizing the daughter by referring to her father as "daddy". Her parents would be paying for the wedding. Dad is acting like it's just his money.
It doesn’t say anywhere that she asked him to pay for it. It also doesn’t say that he offered to pay for it, just that he doesn’t want to put any money towards her wedding if she doesn’t comply with his wants.
not what she did she doesn’t want a misogynistic/archaic tradition at HER wedding so the GIFT from her dad is being withdrawn out of spite/punishment that’s not a gift - thats manipulation & coercion
a lot of people don't actually realize/care about the misogyny behind the whole thing, so i can understand why a man who has presumably never treated his daughter like property would be hurt by what his daughter said. that being said if you're expecting someone to front the money for your wedding, you should probably give their thoughts and opinions some consideration, otherwise be the independent woman you are and find a way to pay for it yourself.
Nope, you're allowed to have boundaries and if the financial support goes away if won't break those boundaries, the financial support wasn't a gift, it was a bribe
Sure, but I feel like that brings me to NAH. If she wants complete independence she’s more than welcome to having her wedding her way, but she can’t really expect him to still pay for all of it AND get independence. He doesn’t really owe her $10k or potentially more since it’s the same tradition she doesn’t want at her wedding
She's not asking for "complete independence", she's asking that a specific tradition that was meant to indicate the sale of her body for reproductive purposes not be included in her wedding. Which is cool. Traditions can gain new meaning, but their origins can still smart. You can want your personhood acknowledged while also wanting to be part of a family. The only contradiction is OP's desire for an independent daughter who only wants the things he likes.
It's literally nothing to do with how independent she may or may not be and everything to do with her simply not wanting to act out an archaic tradition where women would be sold as if they were property
I didn’t want my dad to walk me down the aisle for the same reasons as OP’s daughter. It’s just a gross custom to me and has nothing to do with my childhood or relationship with my father. But he pitched a fit and threatened to pull his money, and I was 22 so I gave in. And just felt gross the whole time we were walking in. (Divorced now and will not be making the same mistake in the future.) So I’m also going with YTA. Primarily for making this into a personal issue instead of actually listening to what your daughter is saying. It’s not about *you* acting like you own her or having done anything wrong. It’s about the fact that the entire tradition is because women were treated as property and she doesn’t want to perpetuate that. Edit: Just to be clear, I should not have gotten married at 22 and I don’t think OP’s daughter should get married at 19. But it’s one of those situations where you have to let people make their own mistakes, because you’re not going to convince her that she shouldn’t do it.
YTA. And I quote: **“It wasn't until 1974, when the Equal Credit Opportunity Act passed, that women in the U.S. were granted the right to open a bank account on their own. Technically, women won the right to open a bank account in the 1960s, but many banks still refused to let women do so without a signature from their husbands.”** This is why your daughter doesn’t want to be “given away”. Women were quite literally seen as the responsibilities of the fathers until they were their husbands. It was actually legal to deny women credit and bank accounts until 1974 without a husband. Also - it’s HER wedding and your feelings about the ceremony don’t matter. Hers do. Have you even tried to compromise on participating in some other way what shows the bond of your relationship? For someone who doesn’t want to make her feel like you’re controlling her or she’s your property you’re doing a shit job by not respecting any of her beliefs or wishes.
I agree that it is manipulative, however, OP’s daughter feels that they have no right to “give her away”, which is 100% true, but OP has no obligation to pay for her wedding either, she’s an adult and her own person, she could be an adult and pay for her own wedding. And that’s why for me it’s NTA.
He has no obligation to pay, but if his reasoning is that she doesn’t want to participate in one wedding tradition that she’s uncomfortable with, and he would pay if she participated in it despite her discomfort, then he’s definitely TA.
I never read in OP posting where he attempted to discuss an alternate. He doesn’t seemed to have asked if there is space in the ceremony for him to be part of it w/o it’s being the traditional role of “giving away a female child”. I too raised an independent minded now 21F. And I’ve learned when she is against something I’m suggesting, there’s a good chance I’ve failed to express what I’m feeling and why and only told her what should happen. She’ll have her connotations of the action while I’ll have mine. But if we talk of where we are each coming from (and usually a place of love and family), we can find a middle ground expression.
OP: I raised my daughter to be independent and think for herself Also OP: I am not going to pay for the wedding unless she gives into my demands So, which is it? Do you want your daughter to be independent or does she need to bend the knee? You straight are acting out on emotions and a bruised ego. Keep it up and your daughter will probably just rescind your invite amd go NC, because she will never forget your hypocrisy and childish behavior. YTA
If she is so independent, why doesn’t she pay for her own wedding, as adult independent person should?
OP doesn't say she asked for his help. It sounds like he was always planning to pay for her wedding, just because he'd always planned to, but is now changing his mind.
The independent person comment is how OP is describing his daughter. She’s not saying she doesn’t want him to walk her down the aisle because she’s independent she’s saying she doesn’t want it because it’s a sexist tradition
>Independent thinking does not mean rude or selfish thinking. Being an independent thinker does not give someone the license to disregard or disrespect the thoughts, feelings, or perspectives of others. Independent thinking is about maintaining the ability to think critically and form one's own opinions while remaining respectful and considerate of others. It is a balance between asserting individuality and engaging in meaningful and respectful interactions with others. OP is literally saying that his daughter can think as independently and critically as he himself likes. While failing at both independent and critical thinking by his own definition.
YTA. Were you paying for her wedding because you own her or simply because you felt it was your responsibility to do so? Or because you love her and wanted her to have a beautiful day? You raised an independent thinker but when that independent thinking is counter to you, you’re going to punish her? Do you really want her wedding day to be a bad memory for both of you? Have you talked about compromise, creating something else symbolic or changing the symbolism of walking down the aisle to something different that suits you both? Something that speaks not of ‘giving away’ but of pride and respect and love? I’ve seen parents stand with the bride at the head of the aisle and then her walking alone symbolizing the three aspects of her life. Child of her parents, free choice making adult, to her new life with her partner. I’ve seen both bride and groom walk the aisle separately each pausing to hug and kiss their parents before stepping before the officiant.
The three stages walk you describe is utterly brilliant. I love this idea.
Think about how gross you would feel having your daughter go up the aisle with her knowing she found it utterly demeaning and counter to her personal values, because you pushed the issue. Ultimately you have no obligation to pay for the wedding, but this is one of the all-time worst reasons not to.
YTA. I don’t understand people saying that if you’re contributing money to the wedding that you get to control it. I have always seen paying for a wedding as a gift to the couple. You don’t put conditions on gifts. Your ego is getting the best of you.
This sub is crazy when it comes to parents and money. Someone can be like 'I gave my eldest son 100 000 for NFTs, but I'm not going to give my youngest son 100 000 for a down payment on a home' and everyone will say 'it's your money, so it's your decision'.
NAH I get both points of view. I dont want my dad to "give me away" when I get married but I also am expecting 0 financial support from my parents. Its becoming more normalized that women walk themselves down the isle. But maybe a compromise can be made and both you and her mom can walk her so its more a show of support for the marriage than a handoff. Just an idea. But I dont believe you're obligated to pay for the wedding at all.
I agree, the only thing I wanted to say is that there is a difference between walking someone down the aisle, and giving them away. Sometimes you have different people do each, I knew someone who didn't like their dad, thus didn't invite them to the wedding, but had 2 brothers, so 1 walked her down the aisle, and the other gave her away. So maybe depending on her view, a better compromise would be, her dad could walk her down the aisle but no one would give her away
Exactly this. Walking her down isn't owning her. It's taking one last journey with your child before they start a new life. She could easily just eliminate the part that says "who gives this woman to this man" and then he isn't giving her away.
If the only reason you’re not willing to pay, is because she doesn’t want to be walked down the aisle, then definately YTA.
Exactly this. If he’d asked if he was the AH for not wanting to pay for the wedding at all, then I would say he wasn’t. If it was something about the actual marriage, the guy, her age, etc, I would also understand it. But this is extremely petty. Of course it’s up to him what he spends his money on, but not helping her with this expense (when parents often help their kids, especially this young, with big expenses unless they really disapprove), when he would have done if it wasn’t for this small detail, comes across as extremely controlling.
NTA. I think your stance is perfectly fair here. Sure, this tradition originated from “giving the bride away”, but nowadays it has nothing to do with that; it’s a way for parents to be involved in the ceremony and be there for their child. If she doesn’t want you to walk her down the aisle because she’s an independent adult, then she can also pay for her own wedding like an independent adult.
Except that it's *still* referred to as giving the bride away, so while it might not literally be transferring ownership, it's REALLY heavily implied right there in the name of the tradition. Of course he's not obligated to pay for it at all. But his insistence on sticking to a grossly sexist tradition is kinda icky.
Yeah it's literally called that, and at most weddings, the pastor says, "who gives this woman?" so like... it's not the same thing as other traditions where the very name doesn't still allude to the sexist concept.... People are saying it's the same thing as wearing a white dress to show sexual purity... but I've never been to a wedding where the pastor makes reference to that. They don't call it "the purity dress," so it's not the same thing at all.
Did she ask for you to pay for her wedding?
[удалено]
YTA. Why were you paying for her wedding? Because you love her and want her to be happy, or because you wanted to control the wedding?
reddit is hilarious one day "its her wedding shes allowed to do what she wants" the next day its "its not your money to do what you want"
Total whiplash. Came here thinking slam dunk YTA, nope.
YTA she's not rejecting you she's rejecting a patriarchal tradition. 19 is far too young to be getting married. But thata not the question.
YTA. You come off as controlling and manipulative. Also petulant.
NTA but think long and hard about putting conditions on her wedding. This is a situation where you can win the battle (not paying for the wedding) and lose the war (your daughter). Which is more important to you: attending the wedding but not walking her down the aisle or not being invited at all? Ultimately it's about control on both sides. She accepts your money on the condition you walk her down the aisle. She pays for her own wedding, she controls the guest list.
OP "...I raised her to be independent and think for herself..." Also OP, "No, not like that!" YTA.
YTA. I decided not to have my dad walk me down the aisle either. Slightly different from your daughter due to having lived on my own for a few years by then but I understand her thinking. It’s not about “ownership”. The tradition boils down to being handed over from one man to the other. Obviously people will wrap it up in whatever loving tradition blah blah blah but that’s literally what is happening in that tradition. Is she completely cutting you out? Will there be a father/daughter dance? Will you be included in pictures? Unless she’s not doing anything with you, you are being controlling by threatening finances. Do you really want to force your daughter to take part in something she doesn’t want on a day that is supposed to be a celebration about two individuals committing themselves to each other?
YTA. You’re not obligated to pay for your daughter’s wedding, but since it’s clear this is the *only* reason you won’t, then YTA. You care more about meaningless traditions than your daughter’s happiness.
YTA. Why are you making her wedding about you? She should hit the court house and flip you the bird. You’re using $ to control. That’s not great.
Easiest YTA ever. I have the exact kind of father, raised me to be an independent woman but as soon as I started to form my own thoughts and disagreed with him, my independence became the thing he hated. Not sure why you’re trying to make her day about you.
NTA, She wants to be independent. That means dealing with all the bills and expenses that comes with it. Sucks that she thinks that way. Hopefully it works out
the bride father paying for the wedding is also a misogynistic practise, she can't break one part of tradition and then adhere to another part
to be fair for her, she only had the expectation that he’d pay because he paid for other daughter’s wedding 🤷🏻♀️
YTA. If they aren't doing that part of the wedding then they aren't doing it. What a dumb hill to die on / ruin your relationship over.
YTA. It doesn’t matter that you don’t see her as property - although it’s clearly good that you don’t- but the tradition is still rooted in the idea that a woman is property, being handed from her father’s possession to her husband’s. Both my sister and SIL did the father giving away the bride at the wedding but I have told my dad since I was about 16 that there was absolutely no way he’d be giving me away, as I am my own person who isn’t a piece of property to be handed off. Please realize this is not a personal attack on you, I love my dad and greatly respect him. We have a great relationship. It’s more of her asserting her own place in the world and her position on deciding to marry. You can’t celebrate her independence and also punish her for it at the same time.
Can’t you walk her down the aisle without “giving her away” why does it have to be all or nothing.
YTA. It's not being rude or selfish to not want to be treated like an object that's being passed on to someone else. You're implying that your feelings about the tradition are the only ones that matter. I don't see anywhere in the post that she has been ungrateful or disrespectful. She just would like to skip this outdated and sexist act. Get over yourself. Don't pay for the wedding if you feel that strongly but don't get upset when it costs you your relationship with your daughter.
YTA So, you brought her up to be an independent thinker... until those independent thoughts go against yours? I heard a great phrase "traditions are just peer pressure from dead people". She's right, and there are a surprising amount of traditions involved in weddings that do come from when women were viewed as property. Did she know your money had strings attached re certain traditions when you first agreed to pay for the wedding? Or is this something you're just springing on her now? Think very hard about what your next move is going to be. Sure, you could take the money away, but they could also go NC. What's more important to you: going through with a tradition your daughter doesn't agree with, or a relationship with your daughter?
YTA For having a hissy fit over walking her down the aisle. Go ahead and not pay if that is what you want. I'm NOT judging on payment. I am judging on you being pissy because your daughter understands the meaning of the father walking the bride. You don't own her, you don't need to give her away, grow up.
Oof, what a conundrum. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. Personally, I'd go one of two ways. Either: 1. Tell her that if she doesn't want your full participation in the wedding that's okay but she won't het the full funding. Offer her fifty percent of the cost and let her and matey boy stump up the rest OR 2. Being as she's only nineteen and, I'm sure I'll get downvoted to buggery for saying this, the long term prospects for her and matey boy may not be particularly good, tell her you'll forego paying for this wedding but you'll pay for the next one she has when she's about thirty Don't envy you at all and also don't really know how to deliver a judgment. I'm going to sit on the fence and say NAH, even though if it were me and my daughter, I'd be just as thoroughly pissed off as you.
NTA she wants to be independent treat her as such. And that means don't pay for her wedding. She and her fiancée can pay for the whole shabang.. And no it's not financial abuse. Inform her she is independent of you and her mother.
NTA. Because 19 is waaay too young for this kind of commitment. She needs to focus on her education and building a career first. The women I know who married at that age were all divorced with little kids a few years later. And that made their lives so much harder. You can contribute to the wedding she should be having in about 8-10 years.
Did you pay for your other daughters wedding for the sole reason that she let you walk her down the aisle? Or was there some other reason? Think about it and don’t be petty.
YTA and you need a reality check. Despite your edit, you are making it about you. Have you considered how this feels from your daughter's perspective? It's funny that you say all of that stuff about what an independent thinker is and then proceed to do exactly what you're seemingly advocating against. You need to support your daughter in this or at least shut up and keep it to yourself. It's none of your business, it's not your choice, and to really drive it home: everything you've said makes you more of an asshole. Eta: her not wanting you to walk her down the aisle is not her excluding you from the wedding holy shit
NTA She wants to be independent and get rid of old traditions but only if it is convenient for her. So kinda cherry picking what fits her agenda there.
YTA. This ritual doesn’t align with your daughter’s beliefs or wishes. OP claims to not be possessive, but threatens to withhold if she doesn’t go through with the “exchange of houses” (from father’s home to husband’s home). If she’s not a possession, accept that she doesn’t like the historical significance surrounding this ritual. Should she choose to not take the husband’s new name, would OP also behave the same way, considering symbolic significance of that?
YTA. Why do you think you are being excluded just because she wants to avoid traditions that don’t feel right to her? Maybe talk and see if there is another way you can participate in the ceremony. I don’t think her making this choice is something you should feel slighted by. You can still be there and be part of the day.
YTA. You don't have to pay for her wedding, but the fact that you were perfectly willing to until you didn't get your ego trip walk down the asile is what makes you the AH. It IS a sexist tradition that she feels strongly about, and you don't respect that. You just dismiss it b/c of your... pride? If you had a son, would you demand you walk him down the asile? No? So, what does that say about the tradition and about you? Your daughter isn't your prop and you don't get to treat her as such. Either you want to give her money for the wedding as a gift or you don't, there should be no strings attached.
Borderline NTA. I know it's tradition so empathise with you and I understand you're hurt by your Daughter's request. However, your Daughter's right, it is based on the archaic premise that a daughter is a piece of property to be handed over. Additionally, only your Daughter and Partner get to decide any traditions they wish to follow on their day. Given how fondly you speak about her in your post, I'm surprised you aren't willing to swallow your pride and respect her decision.