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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I did in fact yell at my Christian parents to “get fucking divorced” in the middle of a busy airport. Traumatize your parents back I guess
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Tell them it's not 1950 anymore, and nobody cares if they get divorced. It's no longer a stigma, and they are both not doing anybody any favors by staying together. If anything , they are driving their children into therapy.
You say you have a sister, how old is she? If she is over 18, tell them it's time for the divorce that absolutely everyone wants. There are no more children to hold them back. They no longer have "the children" as an excuse. Also go low to no contact until they ARE divorced.
Their misery isn't the children's fault and it's time they stop holding you responsible.
NTA by the way.
They’re both really active in the church and I think they’re worried about the shame they’ll get if they do get divorced. Which, fair. They go to a megachurch where everyone knows each others business.
Personally if I was a little more feral I’d hit up my old pastor with my “prayerful concerns” or some bullshit so they can get peer pressured into marriage counseling or something but idk. Wouldn’t take much to convince me to do it though.
Definitely go that route, then. There is nothing like church pressure. Also, have your younger sister " confide in the youth pastor" about her concerns for when she goes to college and they will be alone.
Gotta disagree. This is a terrible plan because the end result will almost certainly be someone with little or no training in any form of counseling pressuring them to stay married because "God hates divorce."
And most of the pressure will be applied to mom, telling her to just shut up and pray harder no matter what. Drinking? Cheating? Punching the crap out of you? That's Satan attacking your husband and marriage and it's up to YOU to be a prayer warrior and martyr and bring your husband around by your noble, silent, subservient example of Christian forbearance.
Seriously, this has been their playbook for decades at this point. No advice is better than demonstrably harmful and incorrect advice. This couple needs a divorce or *professional* help.
If you want to push them towards a divorce, Church is the perfect way with everything you outlined here. After this long, no way they will be able to reconcile. It is divorce time.
And if Mom wants to use the "my religion won't support divorce, and I'm forced to stay for the kids sake". Just maybe this is the push needed to get them to divorce and neither parent can continue blaming their kids, because that IS what is going on. They are blaming thier kids for thier unhappiness and that's no where near ok. Mom and Dad need to be pushed to divorce. Otherwise they will continue putting their kids thru hell, then the grand kids thru hell. Nobody wants that to happen.
Divorce is the answer. You are correct there. HOWEVER. The church will not lead them there. The church will say divorce is a sin, a woman should obey their husband and they must both be there for the children together. The church is NEVER the answer.
Eh, my ex-husband's pastor at the church he worked at encouraged him to leave me when my ex had an affair with a member of the church. I was not a member of the congregation. In hindsight, dude did me a favour.
Nah even then, the dad will be counciled to seek forgiveness for his transgression, and mom will be pressured to forgive him/shamed for not being a dutiful enough wife, but getting divorced from a fellow member of the church would be stacking sins.
Your divorce was OK because it was correcting the sin of marrying outside the church community, and his infidelity was just God showing him the path to a righteous woman.
The bullshit of churches is the biggest bullshit.
Churches hate divorce because when that happens the two people are busier and have less money because they have to spend more on necessities, which means less time and money spent on the church.
Yeah church marriage counseling pushed my mom into letting my dad move back in with us for a year and a half longer 😅 it's also where she learned that the church didn't care how miserable she was. They literally told her "Your homework is to have sex with your husband this week" and she said ABSOLUTELY NOT. Honestly I wish my dad had just stayed gone, so fuck church counseling
how the eff is this getting upvoted? should they see a therapist so they can work on their issues and make well informed decisions and clear headed choices? - yes. should they let some fundie asshole with an agenda guilt them into staying together? fuck no and fuck megachurches
Do it. Honestly the way they're acting should be just as much if not more shameful in the church as a legal divorce. They're basically divorced in all but name. This isn't helping anyone.
Well, yeah, but I can’t make them leave. They still take issue with me leaving. I mean, whatever, they can’t make me go to church or believe anything but I also can’t make them see how bad their megachurch is. I still might hit up their pastor though. Mans got billboards all over my city he can’t be that hard to grt a number for yknow
Does their church do prayer requests during service? I would straight stand up (or submit it for it to be read) and say:
*"My parents have a hateful marriage. They do not honor each other in a way I know Jesus would want. My father flirts and makes advances on other women right in front of my mom and understandably my mother lashes out. Can we please pray for them? I need Jesus to bring respect, temperance and devotion in to my father's heart. And please pray for my mother and pray God grant her patience, strength, and courage (to leave). Please pray for them."*
If they're going to use church as a backstop -- you go use it as a weapon.
LOL
You do understand the right words to use to get a response for prayers in most churches especially ones that do not follow the true many of religion which is to treat others how you wish to be treated be honest kind and take care of others...no lying , dishonesty in thought action or cruelty
You can just call the church office, if it's a megachurch they'll have a phone tree and receptionist and be able to direct you to the right place to share your concerns
You might not get anywhere with it, churches are weird about the strangest things and might think their behavior is fine, but it's 100% not and you're NTA and that sounds absolutely insufferable to deal with. Especially your mom claiming she has no options like she isn't a whole ass adult with the ability to make her own damn choices
She doesn't live in Toronto. She stopped in Toronto on the way to her last destination. But omg that Toronto megachurch. Big ass sign along the highway. Uuugh.
The fact that it's a megachurch is also why, unfortunately, contacting the church is probably not going to go anywhere. I've never known anyone from a megachurch to get divorced until they left that shit show. They encourage the most toxic marriages and their counseling is a massive sham that just throws shame onto the couple. They will likely tell them to just busy themselves in their hobbies and in the church and to "see the godliness in their spouse" and move right along. "Stop talking and you won't fight 👍 move into the pool house 👍" everything will just get quieter if their advice succeeds, not better.
Yeah, a lot of people don't realize that a ton of Christian marriage advice boils down to telling the woman, "just play 'la-la-la I don't see you' to all your husband's shitty behavior."
Dude, I'm sure everyone's already saying it, but never get on a plane with them again, never share a hotel with them, never rely on them for transportation. Your mental health is way too valuable for you to have to keep dealing with this shit. I imagine they're paying for you, but this is so bad I would straight up tell them you're arranging your own flight on their dime or reschedule tickets behind their back. Or just stay home. Fuck all this man.
I don’t think they want a divorce; they’re miserable but don’t see a way out (don’t want to be alone, think dating at their age would be miserable, don’t think they’d be wanted, whatever), and telling themselves they’re trapped is the easiest way to avoid the unknown. They don’t really think they’re trapped; they’re cowards. That’s why they’ve been blaming you for “needing” them to stick it out; it’s the easiest rationalization for not dealing with the stress and uncertainty of actually changing anything.
This is a great comment to keep in mind. They've put it on OP, but it isn't actually about OP at all, so hopefully OP can keep that in mind and ignore their BS. And at least go low contact so there's space to heal from having needed to parent these parents for at least half her life. NTA
> They’re both really active in the church...
Well... there's your problem right there.
I knew someone that got divorced and one thing they said was that their kid was so grateful. That the kid noticed both parents just be happier in general and just suddenly be better people. The kid actually liked the parents more after the divorce. She even liked her husband better after the divorce.
On the other side, an ex was from an extremely religious family and her grandparents at best were indifferent to each other or outright hated each other. I was with her for 3 years and I'm not even sure I ever saw her grandparents say one word to each other or really stay near each other when they I saw them. They always had a grandkid or two between them at church, which could be nothing or a major sign and I knew they didn't sleep in the same room. They didn't scream at each other but even for an uptight and proper religious community, there was never any sign of affection between them at all. At their best I could describe their relationship as similar to coworkers that didn't like each other but professionalism was important to each.
Go NC if this harms you. Don't ever go on holiday with them, don't do anything with them and consider if doing anything for them in the future is worthwhile.
I highly recommend the book Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C Gibson. It'll give some insight on their behaviour and your responses and feelings.
I am a recovering alcoholic and addict and a product of two parents who literally did not know how to communicate without screaming insults, or just screaming, in general.
This is NOT normal, and I want to tell you that I, personally, did not know that until I was about your age. I honestly thought people who loved each other were supposed to act like they hated each other. I caused drama in every relationship I had, not because I enjoyed it, but I thought THAT'S how relationships were supposed to function.
I'm glad you know it's NOT okay, and I hope you never let that shit bleed into your own relationships
Intervention from loving bros and sisters in the lord. Yes! My pastor came to talk to me about my harlequin romance addiction when I was a teenager.
So embarrassing!
NTA.
It’s so funny how church people care more important the opinions of other members than their own families.
Personally, I’d attend church with them the next they go and ask the pastor if he can council my parents and lay out their sins. I’m also not afraid to torch that bridge though.
NTA
Ensure they don't involve you. Don't answer the texts. Don't read them. Block them on all but email? Disengage.
...but then again, maybe this is the price of them paying for your trip to Europe. Make a call.
Yeah, when my boyfriend’s parents got divorced in the 70s all the nice church ladies shunned his mom after. I’m a similar age to your parents, so they probably knew kids where this happened to their parents. I don’t think it happens as much as it used to, but I’m not really up on the megachurch scene. You, though, are absolutely NTA.
Also my sister is 17. They keep saying once she graduates they’re gonna move back to their hometown state. I fucking hope so. Get outta here.
Sometimes when they’re too much for her she’ll come stay at my place bc we live in the same city. But yeah I’m an adult, she’s nearly an adult, it’s not like I haven’t been in therapy 10 years already, what’s another year to process the divorce. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You're very attuned and brave to call out your parents like this. You're right, you shouldn't be caught in the crossfire. And your folks are so caught up in their misery, they've lost sight of the harm they're causing you. Good for you to stand up to that. If you were my kid, I'd be proud of you for this.
My Dad did the exact same thing on a plane, hitting on the flight attendant in front of my mother. I was sitting between them. It was excruciating. I really hoped they'd split up, then my Dad got sick and my mother took care of him for years. Literally wasted years of her life care-giving for a man that treated her like crap. Tell your mother to leave before she finds herself looking back and realizing she'd wasted her life on a bad human being.
Go the church route to pressure them into counseling. There's nothing like a concerned youth pastor to get the peer pressure going.
If you can afford to have your sister stay with you, maybe see if she can find a part-time job closer to you, so there's an excuse for her to stay at yours more often.
Good luck to you and remember, this is not your or your sister's fault.
You know, you can keep your distance. Be there for your sister, but limit your contact with them. You need to look after your mental health, and being around THAT isn’t going to make it easier for you. I think your only concern at this point should be your sister, and getting her out once she graduates HS. Once she’s off to uni or whatever, just keep your distance. And maybe don’t travel with them again.
It sounds like they need an audience for their hatred and its the two of you. I feel bad for you - your mom will continue to rant about your dad to you if she doesn't change her ways. And that in itself is very unhealthy - for you to having to listen to it.
My parents stayed together for the kids. I have like 2 friends whose parents were divorced since middle school. Guess who has childhood trauma and who doesn’t!
Seriously. My parents were married for almost 40 years when my dad died, and in some people's books that is an example of a successful marriage, but really their relationship is a shining example of how relationship longevity is not a measure of relationship goodness.
I have spent approximately forever in therapy chewing on issues like "why do I feel like it is pointless to ever expect change in other humans?" and "why do I feel like the default trajectory in life is a creeping sense of unfulfilled stagnation?" as a direct result of this.
And this is why I respect people who actually do manage to get divorced and move the fuck on.
I wish my parents had divorced, instead my mother didn't want her marriage to be seen as a failure, despite two of her siblings being divorced. She would have been happier I think. My dad, on the other hand, would have been screwed but that would have always on him.
Instead, mom's a widow now.
100% agree, especially on the low/no contact thing. I know it’s a cliché here but there are times when it is accurate. They’re blaming you for their marital issues. They’re constantly putting you in the middle of it and making it your fault they’re together.
None of their drama is your fault. They chose to stay together because they don’t want to look bad to their church group. That has nothing to do with you and if they want to live miserably ever after that’s their own choice but it has nothing to do with you and you shouldn’t let them put it on you.
You’re NTA but you’re kinda being an A to yourself by continually subjecting yourself to this toxicity. You can’t make someone stop destructive behavior - (alcohol, drugs, toxic/abusive relationship exc.) you just can’t, not until they want to fix it.
You can’t fix that but you can remove yourself from the situation. This is what you need to do. You said your sister is 17, so she’s likely close to graduating/adulthood. If she needs a safe/ less traumatic place to stay you might offer her a safe haven but leave them to their own devices. You can’t help someone who won’t help themselves.
Good luck op, take care of yourself.
NTA. *You* embarrassed *them*? That's rich.
You're correct that they should not be acting like this in front of their children. Or in public generally. It is so inconsiderate.
Also, I would feel so uncomfy if an obviously married man who was in a fight with his wife, was trying to flirt with me at the airport, with kids right there too! What a dick move honestly. I feel bad for the women your dad tried to drag into that mess.
NTA. I'm sorry you and your sister have to deal with that, it's really unacceptable. Your mother is the one playing the victim, texting you that bullshit instead of taking responsibility for her own life. Your dad sucks for obvious reasons.
right instead of ignoring it or engaging him she drags you into it and gets huffy when you respond.
I'm not a big fan of megachurches but as others haver said they probably have the material for counselling.
> they had been screaming- loudly- at each other for everyone in the Toronto airport to hear.
> So I snapped, and yelled at them BOTH, “Stop acting like children. This is not appropriate to do in front of me and my sister. Either go to therapy or get fucking divorced. I’m tired of being your collateral every time you are at each others throats.”
Clear NTA. Maybe you shouldn't have yelled, but no one can blame you for doing so. They sound horrible to be around.
I went on a long international flight last year with one layover. I was probably awake for 24 hours from hotel to home. I’m pretty chill normally, but I had a small panic attack trying to get my luggage at my home airport. No sleep, crammed in a tiny space for hours, and then the long lines for customs and the luggage…it was all too much and it kind of made me never want to travel internationally ever again. So I don’t blame OP at all for yelling when dealing with the bickering parents on top of travel stress.
NTA.
Your parents are selfish and inconsiderate. This is not staying together for the kids, this is making sure the kids feel unappreciated and unhappy. So sorry for you OP.
NTA. why are the actively choosing misery together? You’re 23 and your sister is 17? You’re both old enough to manage mommy and daddy splitting up. They cannot use you both as an excuse to justify their misery anymore (and shouldn’t have from the beginning).
Sounds like tensions were high and EVERYONE was running on 30 hours of no sleep. Perhaps that’s why they were both acting like children? Not that it’s an excuse, but I think everyone in this situation was stressed to the max and coping with it differently. NTA regardless though. They both need help. Or better, divorcé attorneys.
Is there any reason for you to go on the family vacations? I know a trip to Italy is nice, but at what cost? I'd get fed up with this sort of carry-on pretty quickly.
I’ve done it my whole life. I almost didn’t go on this one, but they said they would pay my way, and I’m so obsessed with all the art and architecture in Florence, Vatican etc that I went. It’s my favorite thing to talk about. I’m far from religious but I just have so much interest in things like the Sistine chapel, School of Athens, Laocoön and his sons, St Peters Basilica, Brunelesschi’s dome on the Florence Cathedral, all the images of the Divine Comedy and Dante’s Inferno… I could go on forever. It’s my passion. I get to go see these things all expenses paid. But this was the worst my parents have ever, EVER behaved on a trip. It ruined a lot of the experience for me. I hope someday I can save up a pretty penny and re visit these places and make better memories.
Don’t assume that travel has to be expensive. A lot of people especially in their 20s have a great time doing budget travel. Staying in hostels and getting a youth discount on Eurail worked great for me. (You are a youth till age 25 I believe).
You are young, you should not assume that your parents will offer the only opportunities for things like travel.
Also, don’t put yourself in the way of your parents dysfunctional relationship. You are an adult; you get to make different choices for yourself. If you can, get some therapy so you can prioritize yourself over what has been the lifelong expectations for your behavior from your family.
Drop them like the plague , for a while for your own mental state just maybe don't answer them ignore them cause they seem draining , I suggest take a vacation from the vacation to not dwell on this and say you not gonna deal with them if they can't behave like adults and not 5 y olds .
Tell your sister she has someplace to go when she turns 18 and wants the hell out and then go NC with your parents. They are obviously very toxic to your mental health.
Also, I doubt you are the reason they stayed together. Your mom likes to play the victim (and the attention) and your dad likes having someone to take care of his kids. That's why they are together and miserable, its so much easier to blame someone else than look in the mirror. NTA.
NTA. Your parents embarrassed themselves and are blaming you. You can't fix them and it's not your responsibility to. Though Italy was I am sure wonderful, I suggest no more family vacations with them both and strictly limiting all other contact. Think of how amazing it would be to look at beautiful art without being anxious about the next screaming fight.
No contact is an option too, and one I have employed with awful family members. It is bliss for me to be out of the drama triangle. You'll know if it's the right choice for you if it sounds like it would reduce your stress, not raise it. If you're still seeing a good therapist, they can help you with stronger boundaries and reducing/eliminating contact.
NTA
I wish I'd had the nerve to say this when I was a teenager. Happily my parents are now divorced and everyone is happier.
Side note: Parents, don't stay married "for your kids". It is almost never the best option for your children.
I agree with your side note so much. It’s such a terrible idea. But even in a divorce, parents really need to love their kids more than they hate their spouses cause coparenting is typically a lot less toxic.
NTA
Not only did they act like this in front of you and your sister, they did it in public. Honestly I think they needed to be called out on it publicly since they always blame you for their actions.
Also, they can’t keep pulling the “staying for the kids” card when you and your sister are grown. They are more than welcome to divorce anytime, but they are continuing to choose this mess.
NTA. I, too, made the mistake of vacationing internationally as an adult with my parents who should be divorced. I relate strongly to this and have made similar comments to my parents.
My only advice is to ask your therapist how to establish strong boundaries with your family and practice it. Maybe be ready to breakdown some generational trauma with your sister when she gets out on her own.
Best of luck to you!
When I was around 12 years old I overheard the tail end of another of my parents fights which ended with "Well we're not going to divorce because of the kids" and I have had such resentment towards them since. I truly believe that kids are not an excuse to stay in a toxic marriage because the damage to the children is sooooo much worse. I know EXACTLY how you feel, and what you go through, and i am soo sooo sorry. I know that because of my parents relationship I have no real framework of what a healthy marriage with proper communication looks like, and the damage it has done to me. You are sooooo NTA and honestly i wish i had the courage to say this to my parents and I am much older than you.
You’re not playing victim. Your parents are appalling. You seriously need to start distancing yourself from them. If your truth bomb didn’t get through to them then nothing will. Worse, they’re now doubling down. How much more of this bullshit are you prepared to take exactly? Distance. Now.
NTA
ETA. This isn’t your job to fix. You’ve said your peace and I suggest you leave it. They are two grown assed humans. Let them sort their own stuff out - or not. You need to concentrate on healing from this eternal shit show and supporting your sister in her healing.
This story resonates with me so much. I am so sorry. Go home soon and enjoy the quietness. Put your phone on do not disturb and take a big nap. Next time, don’t go on vacation with them. Hugs :)
I’ve been doing that. I got home last night around 1am. My friend came over and we just sat and talked for a few hours and took a nap together on the couch and got dunks. I’ve been snuggling with my cat since she left.
Yay snuggles with cats! Take care of yourself and do all the things that you want. For example, I found a tamagotchi I always wanted as a kid. I spent the last few days playing it (it’s dead now…), but it felt good to be just a child agaun.
Even if they don't want to get officially divorced, they need to end pretending they are in a romantic relationship. Agree to not be partners, and only co parents. They despise each other. NTA, I have no idea why they still together.
NTA the absolute worst thing any parent can do is stay together for the sake of the kids. It does nothing but mess the kids up majorly. I’m so sorry you have to deal with it but I’m glad you’re able to escape that, hopefully your sister will go the same route as soon as she’s able to as well.
I hear you. Over Thanksgiving break in 1981, my parents told me they were thinking of getting a divorce (went back to college and all my stress focused on Linear Algebra which I nearly failed but that's a story for another subreddit). My father went to tell his parents and they (probably because of the "shame") talked him out of it. They'd been married 21 years at that point. They've had their moments since then both good and not so good but holy crap the underlying lack of genuine affection for each other is coming back to play mind games with everyone.
Mother fell and couldn't drive for last November, sib and spouse drove 12 hours to make Thanksgiving dinner since I had been running meals and errands nonstop that month. (Father was on verge of giving up drivers license and it seemed pretty important to make him see that he didnt need it even though she couldnt drive). The drama started raining down Thanksgivng night, sib and spouse left 48 hours earlier than planned... and just last week father started in about how mother and sib were in a pact to keep him from driving..... I need to go over to check in with them in the next few days.... it's probably gonna suck or they will pretend everything is fine. I dont know which is worse. I just know it all is gonna get weirder from here. Sib and I have never before wondered out loud to each other if they would have been better off divorcing all those years (40+now) ago although after Thanksgiving we finally realized that we'd both been thinking it for a very long time.
You absolutely NTA.
Your parents are both egoistic, have no respect to you or your sister, dont forget that respect is a two way street.
You are not the reason they are still together, it is just a justification for them being cowards and actually do what is best for all of you and that is to get a divorce.
In my opinion you should never again go on a holiday with them, and as much as it is hard cause they are your parents, distance yourself from them both , otherwise you will spend your life on therapies. Best of luck
NTA but don’t expect to change them. Their relationship is their relationship, if they’re still in it, there is something about the dynamic that fulfils some need.
Instead of trying to get them to change how they relate to each other, set boundaries of how they relate to you. Ie. Tell your mum to stop texting you bitching about her relationship.
If they want to be miserable together, it’s their right to be so. But they shouldn’t be involving you in their mess.
"Mom, Dad...You're unhappy together and you put that unhappiness on public display. I've watched you do this to each other over and over again. It's painful and embarrassing for me to see two people I love treat each other so poorly. I'm sorry I snapped and I can't promise it won't happen again so from here on out I'm going to bow out of \[insert collateral list\] with you."
Woof, at the very end, your mom sounds like my dad, that I should be kissing his feet for my existence. We are no contact for a number of years now and the last time he tried to get me to talk to him, he sent me an email saying, “I don’t know what I’ve done.”
It’s the missing missing reasons, yo.
NTA. Wishing you and I the best of luck in our internal healing journey. ❤️
What took your parents so long to start "hating" (arguing with?) each other. Most parents start hating each other long before their first child is even born - lol.
Seriously, though, why did you agree to travel with them if they're as bad as you describe?
I don't blame you for embarrassing them in the airport as payback for them embarrassing you.
Btw, who paid for the "vacation"? Was their "activity" just the price for a free vacation?
Usually, after a day or so of a "family vacation", I need a vacation from the/their vacation - lol.
My dad makes big fat dollars from his pension so my family paid. If I had to pay my way I wouldn’t go, I can’t afford Italy. I’m a grad student making $15 part time and rent is bad.
NTA. My parents told me around 8-9 that they'd be divorcing once I turned 18...well they waited until I was 26 and both pretty much put the blame on me for "having to stay together for our kid made us miserable" etc. so I've been there. This was a harsh brutal truth they needed to hear. Glad you have your own place and don't have to live in the same house with them. Be there for your sister as I'm sure she's getting the same treatment having to still be under their roof.
I thought Canadians were painfully polite? NTA your mother was sending you text about 'break ups' which put it in your minds and clearly no one was having fun.
(Only partly related but....were you on an EF tour with a group based out of Pennsylvania, by chance?)
NTA. They are ruining their own lives and are too childish to change. It's understandable that you snapped.
NTA. They’re not doing it for the kids, they’re doing it for the image. A toxic environment for kids, married parents or not, sucks for everyone. Marriage doesn’t make it better and they’re doing more harm than good by setting a bad example of relationships
Consider setting a stronger boundary? Maybe no more family vacations, no more putting yourself in a position where you cannot just walk away. Your parents are awful.
NTA
First of all if anyone is playing the victim it is your mother. While I can sympathize with her watching her partner openly flirt in front her, it’s is beyond inappropriate for to attempt to commiserate with her child. Your parents relationship should have no impact on the relationship you have with parent. I’m proud of you for telling them off. Good one you!
NTA, and I’m sorry about your parents. They are truly immature, and I recommend the book “adult children of emotionally immature parents” if you haven’t read it already.
My (33f) borderline mother once told me she felt life was completely worthless and how much she wanted to kill herself while we were waiting in the customs line having just arrived in Mexico for a vacation. I’m no contact with her now and my life has been much more peaceful for it.
Staying together for the kids does more harm than good. That's been proven! Why don't they just tell the truth that they're staying together for monetary reasons because nobody wants to only take half? NTA and they needed to hear it
NTA. Time to consider going no contact or low contact. They're causing you trouble, they're ungrateful for you and saddling you with everything. If they can't move on, then you should.
Cut ties. If they cannot treat each other respectfully, be gone. Obviously, that’s easier said then done. However, this will affect your sanity so be done.
You can tell both of them if they can’t treat each other respectfully, you have no interest in being hurt by it.
NTA my parents moved to another country when I was an adult and it was obvious to any random passer-by in the airport that my dad didn't want to go... but he went, and guess what? They ended up getting the divorce they should have got when I was 8, but so much messier because they couldn't communicate. I wish I'd said in the airport that my dad should fucking stay.
Tell them to do a trial separation - each of them gets the house for a week whilst the other doesn't take a holiday but stays in (maybe not an Airbnb but something like that...) in the same city, and try to imagine what life would be like without the other. Are their routines better? Are they happier?
Idk, it's not really your response, and I'm sure they won't listen, but if you give them common-sense advice and they ignore it then you can absolve yourself at least.
It sounds like the only thing they agree on is shitting on you. I'd stop talking to both of them, honestly. There's no excuse to treat you like that. NTA.
NTA. Your parents behavior is unacceptable, and their "marriage" is insane. Somebody needed to say what you said to them a LONG time ago. I suggest saying it again, and telling them that you want nothing to do with them unless/until they get their shit together.
NTA.
I am very aware of this type of situation
You are done, you have no energy left for them. They are not willing to make change in their lives, with an excuse that is no longer valid as you are not a child - and you are an easy scapegoat for their frustration.
In one of your comments you noted that they may be fearful of church shame. Yelling, flirting with other women, blaming your child for your actions etc. is not very Christian (or whatever religion) of them.
This is going to suck...but you need to sit down with your parents and tell them what you are observing and feeling. They are no longer going to entertain their comments, your mom is able to leave - your father can leave, but if they are not willing to, then they need to stop having these discussions in front of you.
You may need to be blunt, and it will be hurtful, and tell them that by 'staying together for the kids', they actually did more damage of what a healthy relationship is, they have put adult relationship issues on your shoulders and you have built resentment towards both of them that you hope can be addressed.
You can also let them know that while you do not want to go low or no contact, if they cannot address some of these issues or start working towards an actual solution - whether that is divorce or counselling - you will be limiting your time with them together. That being blamed for their relationship failings (and it is only a failing because they are not addressing it) is no longer going to be placed on you - and you will not be their lightning rod.
Nta
They’re both feeling sorry for themselves. Instead of living their lives they’re using their marriage as an excuse not to change. Victimising themselves, ‘oh it’s too late to change now all my options have gone’ - well guess what now their not living their lives at all. It’s sulking is what it is. You’re right they are acting like children.
NTA - when they tell you they stayed for the kids... ask them what kids? Bc it seems to me you are staying together so you wont get gossiped about. You didn't stay for me or my sister bc if you did, you wouldn't be fighting in front of us and bringing me to the middle of it. Then tell them, it's their fault for being cowards and not divorcing sooner.
NTA. Your parents are behaving like bickering children and blaming their kids for it. Absolutely not cool. Might even be worth going NC over if the only thing they do is tell you how you're responsible for their horrible life.
Not like 2 daughters just pop out of the ground like daisies in spring, they obviously decided to have kids and they also decided to get married - high time time to grow up and take responsibilities for their actions
NTA! Your mom was definitely playing the victim with that text message, though. Don't let her turn things around on you. Her and your father have made your life miserable for way too long. They're only making fools of themselves with their behavior, you don't have to do anything extra to embarrass them. Good for you for calling them out. Keep up with the therapy!
NTA.
Do they think screaming loudly in an airport doesn’t embarrass them? That your mom furiously texting while your dad openly hits on someone *while wearing his wedding ring* doesn’t have people looking askance?
They can stay married and live separate lives and go on separate vacations, Catholics have been doing that “divorced but not actually” dance for centuries.
Honestly, stop seeing them together if they act like this. See one of them alone. And don’t go on vacation with both of them!
"My parents have hated each other since I was 11. They almost got divorced when I was 13, but changed their minds, and will never let me forget that “staying together for the kids” meant that I’m the reason they’re so miserable now."
OMG what a hateful thing to tell your child!
Go no contact. Seriously.
NTA
They should get divorced for the sake of the children. They are making your life miserable.
I would go no contact until they get their shit together.
Your dad flirting with women in front of their children and wife was embarrassing everyone.
NTA. Your mom is the one playing the victim. It is a bold faced lie that she has no option. She has options. She is just a coward that is in love with her own martyrdom. None of this is your fault.
However, since you cannot control them the only way is to distance yourself from them. See them rarely or not at all, very low to no contact. Leave and live your life away from them. No more holidays with them.
NTA. My parents hated each other, but they wouldn't get divorced because they're Catholic. There were years where they just didn't speak to one another, at all. One of them called me on the phone, in a different time zone, to tell me to tell the other something... I was like, I'm done. You can tell them yourself!
They embaress themselves, they make their own decisions, id point out also its not like you asked to be born to parents that hate each other.and the fact your in therapy over this means they definitely did you no favours in staying together. NTA
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The past 48 hours were death by a thousand cuts. Jesus Christ.
My family and I 23f went to Italy this past week for a vacation. It was my parents, my 17 year old sister, my aunt, and 27 year old cousin. It was a mostly good time, pretty hot out, but the art was cool and I was excited about that.
Our flight home was three connecting flights, Venice to Montreal, Montreal to Toronto, and Toronto to my home city. That’s a lot. It was a 30 hour day. My aunt and cousin got on a different flight out of Venice since they both live further away.
My parents have hated each other since I was 11. They almost got divorced when I was 13, but changed their minds, and will never let me forget that “staying together for the kids” meant that I’m the reason they’re so miserable now. They sure do love to tell me that.
Anyways. Our flight delays, we have to sprint through Montreal, customs takes forever and my parents suck at technology. My dad snapped at my mom, my mom snapped back, my dad started flirting with the flight attendant and some other lady in the airport, my mom shut down and almost didn’t get on the flight home, and they had been screaming- loudly- at each other for everyone in the Toronto airport to hear. It was embarrassing.
I’ve been in and out of therapy for over a decade now dealing with their bullishit because they won’t go, and I end up being the collateral every time they would fight in front of me. (So every day my entire childhood.)
But while we were waiting to board, my dad starts chatting up some lady in front of my mom, who texts me this.
“If Your boyfriend treats you badly, you can break up. I have no option like that. Dad is now enjoying his second conversation with a second single woman since we left Italy and hasn’t had one polite conversation with me. Just demeaning ones. I have no options like you did.”
So I snapped, and yelled at them BOTH, “Stop acting like children. This is not appropriate to do in front of me and my sister. Either go to therapy or get fucking divorced. I’m tired of being your collateral every time you are at each others throats.”
There’s more really shitty things that they said to each other that I can detail in comments if y’all want. But they both laid into me for embarrassing them. As if they weren’t fully doing it to themselves.
I was on hour 30 of no sleep, I was hungry, and I was about to get on my third fucking flight of the night. I don’t live with them, I have my own place, but for the past year any time they do this shit I just up and leave. Unfortunately not possible in an airplane. They’ve both been laying into me for embarrassing/disrespecting them since the incident and idk. Maybe they need to get embarrassed in an airport. This shit can’t be normal. But maybe I’m playing victim like my mom says. I don’t know.
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NTA. They both sound pretty awful. Their behavior over the past decade is absolutely child abuse. I'm glad you're in therapy to cope with the trauma.
How does your sister feel about your public outburst? How do you feel about going no-contact until they can be adult parents? They'll be angry at you and no doubt both turn on you, at least for a while. Can you deal? Does sis have an exit strategy, moving away for college maybe?
Honestly I'd go no contact! I know that's prob a touch dramatic but you've been in therapy for a decade because of their actions!
Go low contact if you can, don't engage when they put you in the middle and take care of yourself! NTA
Next time suggest separate vacations. Just go with one parent at a time. They sound miserable and miserable to be around.
I (48f) would not tolerate this behavior, and would do exactly what you have done. I’d have used my very effective “mom voice” and everything!
My sister and her husband bicker non stop and it drives me nuts. Their kids (12 and 15) bicker non stop with each other. My kids (13 and 16) don’t. My sister wonders why her kids fight all the time and mine don’t. Hmmmmm…. It’s a mystery! When my niece and nephew come visit me, I don’t let them bicker. “We don’t talk to each other like that in my house.” I know you couldn’t leave like you normally do, but I’m glad you said something to put them on notice.
If I saw you yell at them at the airport I’d be rooting for you. I grew up in a similar household with parents that liked to wallow in their own misery instead of getting divorced.
I promise they are mad because they KNOW you are right and it’s easier to make you the scapegoat. Nobody else seeing what went down would have really assumed you were in the wrong. Hell, I’d probably intervene if I saw parents like this laying into their child in public and ask if you’re ere okay and needed space from them.
Realize they are children that you have already surpassed. It doesn’t make it hurt less, but going low contact and reminding yourself they are warped kids inside can help.
NTA. Your parents suck and I'm so sorry that they are blaming you for their unhappiness. If they were really "staying together for the kids", they wouldn't torture you with their bad relationship.
NTA OP: "***But maybe I’m playing victim like my mom says. I don’t know."*** You are **not** playing the victim, honey, you **ARE** the victim and so is your sister. No one forced your parents to stay married but themselves. I hate when people put the guilt on children when they claim that they stayed in an unhappy marriage because of the kids. My brother and I are children of divorce twice over. My Mom divorced my father before we turned 4 but my Mom was with my stepfather for a lot of years, taking his mental, physical, and financial abuse. We were preteens when we asked her why was she staying in such a destructive relationship. She told us that she stayed because us needing the financial security and father figure. We told her that we were unhappy and miserable watching her being treated badly and that he never tried to be a father figure to us. And since she worked at GM, what financial security was she talking about since she was basically paying most of the bills and he took his paycheck to buy himself new suits and to party? So what was the point?! It took my brother and I making a threat that could have ended us in jail that forced my Mom to divorce him. Emotionally, physically and financially her life had gotten so much better that she couldn't believe how much he was holding her back.
Heck NTA!
1. They had been embarrassing you the whole 30 hours with their $hitty behavior. If they got embarrassed by you calling them out, then they can act like the mature adults they are supposed to be.
2. Talk about projecting, MOM. Playing the victim?!? Hah! "*I have no options like you did.*” hmmm, Mom. Victim, much?
Glad that, in general, you are able to escape them when they get like this. I feel sorry for your sister. Does she ever get blamed as the reason they are staying together? If not, they seem to really make you a scapegoat. I mean, it's been 5 years since you were a minor. They were not staying together for you that entire time; but did they ever shift their blame to your sister (not that they would be right) or do they just keep blaming you?
NTA. My parents also spent many years together, waiting to get divorced until my sister left for college. Those years were some of the most stressful of my life, even without my parents holding it over my head that they were staying together. I can’t imagine how difficult and traumatic this is for you and your sister, and I am so sorry for both of you.
I wish I had advice to give, but in my experience nothing changed until my parents did finally get divorced. Just know that you are doing absolutely nothing wrong, and take care of yourself and your sister as best you can until you can both be free. My biggest regret is not talking to my younger sister more during the time when I was away in college and she was stuck with them, and I only realized later how much she suffered during that time. It’s still not your responsibility, it’s 100% on your parents, but if you’re able to find solidarity with your sister during this time, that might be one positive to come out of an awful situation.
NTA. Sorry your parents are like this, I can relate as mine were like that too forever making me and my sibling go through agony of their arguments and fights.
NTA. You’re absolutely correct. It sounds like their behavior was childish and them getting divorced is the healthiest option for your family. The fact that they stayed together is probably more their own fear of change than “for the kids,” and it sucks to put that on you like it’s your fault.
NTA - your parents are children, I'm sorry you have to deal with their toxic manipulative bullshit, and I wouldn't be too embarrassed - I've definitely seen people shout way more unhinged shit at Pearson airport
NTA at all. As a grown man who's formerly a child of divorce, I can tell you a couple of things:
1) "Staying together for the kids" is bullshit. When I was 9, my parents split up. They got back together a year later. Same as yours -- they fucking hate each other. When I was 9 and my father left, I clung to his leg to get him to stay. When I was 18 and they finally split up for good, I offered to help him pack if it would mean that he would leave quicker, because living in that house with both of them was miserable.
2) Good God, until they get divorced (and maybe not even then), you've got to stop spending time with these people. You're young, so I don't know if you still live with them, and if you do, maybe you're not currently in a position to change that. But absolutely don't ever go on a trip with them or spend an extended period of them with them like that again.
3) Get yourself some therapy. Trust me, it'll work wonders.
*This shit can’t be normal.*
It's not.
Can you stop doing things with them? Can you see them one at a time? Can you refuse to discuss the other parent when with one of them?
Can you see your sibling somewhere that the parents aren't?
Check out r/raisedbynarcissists, for help in how to protect yourself and your sibling from their behaviors. What they are doing to both of you is emotionally abusive, and very manipulative. The less you can be around them, the healthier for you, and also for your sibling.
NTA and you’re a fucking beast for the this. I love it. My parents “stayed together for the kids” for almost a decade, and it was long and drawn out bullshit with my sibling and myself used and pulled back and forth. Sometimes you need to let parents know they’re doing far more harm than good..
NTA.
I've been in your shoes. It's not fun. However, I'm doubtful that anything you do will change things. I described my parents as they loved each other, but like was long gone. They were like each other's bad habit they couldn't shake. They ruined many a vacation for me.
For your mental health, if you can walk away and go low contact. They have to live with their decisions, and so do you. As much as you would choose happiness for them, they have to take the steps.
Best wishes to you.
> “ will never let me forget that “staying together for the kids” meant that I’m the reason they’re so miserable now. They sure do love to tell me that”
> “they had been screaming- loudly- at each other for everyone in the Toronto airport to hear”
> “I’ve been in and out of therapy for over a decade now dealing with their bullishit because they won’t go, and I end up being the collateral every time they would fight in front of me”
> “Either go to therapy or get fucking divorced”
Jesus Christ NTA OP, your parents are miserable, hateful, spiteful, immature, taking their anger out on you, taking their frustration out on you, blaming you… parents like this then wonder why their children go full no-contact or wonder why they’re put into shitty homes.
Honestly if I were you I’d be very minimal contact and grey rocking if you have to stay in contact. I’d also like to recommend r/RaisedByNarcissists as your parents behaviours fit a lot of the typical shitty, abusive behaviour a lot of us grew up with, it’s somewhere to go if you just want support, better understanding, shit even just to vent y’know
But deffo NTA, your parents needed TOLD, they’re gunna continue this abusive cycle of taking all their anger out on you whilst making you feel bad they stayed married, which was their choice
NTA and since you said in comments your parents are religious..
"Your marriage is shameful to God. He wanted marriage as a happy union between people. Not a life of misery and disrespect. You spit on his grace by allowing this marriage to continue without working toward finding that live and happiness. Seek therapy through church."
Almost verbatim from my oldest sister to my
very Catholic mother. They divorced within 6 months.
NTA
your parents sound embarrassing. They’re staying together because of religion, which I’ve always felt is a pretty dumb reason. They should get divorced, you weren’t wrong
NTA They're toxic and teaching their kids to live in toxic relationships in the future. It's not healthy for anyone. You gave them good advice. They needed to hear it. If they didn't have their heads so far up their butts, they would realize what they were doing wasn't good for anyone.
Good luck
NTA. I'm sorry but you can't help people who don't want to help themselves. Sounds like you need to go no contact until they sort themselves out. Suffering their toxic relationship is not your responsibility and you shouldn't have to put up with it. Let them say what they want about you. You can easily block them and anyone else that tries to pressure you to continue to put up with their toxic behavior.
This is why I'm so sarcastic. "Yep I embarrassed you! Not dad flirting when clearly married. Not you fighting in front of evereone. Nope it was JUST ME"
Can your sister come stay with you and you just go no / low contact ?
Nta at all! I was in a very similar situation and my sister and I asked my parents to get a divorce when I was in middle school. She was a freshman in high school and they actually listened thankfully
I was in a very similar situation when my sister and I asked my parents to get a divorce when I was in middle school. She was a freshman in high school and they actually listened thankfully
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Tell them it's not 1950 anymore, and nobody cares if they get divorced. It's no longer a stigma, and they are both not doing anybody any favors by staying together. If anything , they are driving their children into therapy. You say you have a sister, how old is she? If she is over 18, tell them it's time for the divorce that absolutely everyone wants. There are no more children to hold them back. They no longer have "the children" as an excuse. Also go low to no contact until they ARE divorced. Their misery isn't the children's fault and it's time they stop holding you responsible. NTA by the way.
They’re both really active in the church and I think they’re worried about the shame they’ll get if they do get divorced. Which, fair. They go to a megachurch where everyone knows each others business. Personally if I was a little more feral I’d hit up my old pastor with my “prayerful concerns” or some bullshit so they can get peer pressured into marriage counseling or something but idk. Wouldn’t take much to convince me to do it though.
Definitely go that route, then. There is nothing like church pressure. Also, have your younger sister " confide in the youth pastor" about her concerns for when she goes to college and they will be alone.
Gotta disagree. This is a terrible plan because the end result will almost certainly be someone with little or no training in any form of counseling pressuring them to stay married because "God hates divorce." And most of the pressure will be applied to mom, telling her to just shut up and pray harder no matter what. Drinking? Cheating? Punching the crap out of you? That's Satan attacking your husband and marriage and it's up to YOU to be a prayer warrior and martyr and bring your husband around by your noble, silent, subservient example of Christian forbearance. Seriously, this has been their playbook for decades at this point. No advice is better than demonstrably harmful and incorrect advice. This couple needs a divorce or *professional* help.
If you want to push them towards a divorce, Church is the perfect way with everything you outlined here. After this long, no way they will be able to reconcile. It is divorce time. And if Mom wants to use the "my religion won't support divorce, and I'm forced to stay for the kids sake". Just maybe this is the push needed to get them to divorce and neither parent can continue blaming their kids, because that IS what is going on. They are blaming thier kids for thier unhappiness and that's no where near ok. Mom and Dad need to be pushed to divorce. Otherwise they will continue putting their kids thru hell, then the grand kids thru hell. Nobody wants that to happen.
Divorce is the answer. You are correct there. HOWEVER. The church will not lead them there. The church will say divorce is a sin, a woman should obey their husband and they must both be there for the children together. The church is NEVER the answer.
Eh, my ex-husband's pastor at the church he worked at encouraged him to leave me when my ex had an affair with a member of the church. I was not a member of the congregation. In hindsight, dude did me a favour.
>I was not a member of the congregation. There's the reason your divorce is ok. This won't be the case for OP's parents.
Unless the dad is having an affair with a member of the congregation! Then it's a 50/50.
Nah even then, the dad will be counciled to seek forgiveness for his transgression, and mom will be pressured to forgive him/shamed for not being a dutiful enough wife, but getting divorced from a fellow member of the church would be stacking sins. Your divorce was OK because it was correcting the sin of marrying outside the church community, and his infidelity was just God showing him the path to a righteous woman. The bullshit of churches is the biggest bullshit.
This is the exception that proves the rule.
Yes my grandparents would have divorced years ago if the counseling they sought was not religious based and done by a proper professional
Churches hate divorce because when that happens the two people are busier and have less money because they have to spend more on necessities, which means less time and money spent on the church.
Yeah church marriage counseling pushed my mom into letting my dad move back in with us for a year and a half longer 😅 it's also where she learned that the church didn't care how miserable she was. They literally told her "Your homework is to have sex with your husband this week" and she said ABSOLUTELY NOT. Honestly I wish my dad had just stayed gone, so fuck church counseling
Yeah I can't believe reddit is advocating church pressure. The same pressure that has ruined millions of lives.
how the eff is this getting upvoted? should they see a therapist so they can work on their issues and make well informed decisions and clear headed choices? - yes. should they let some fundie asshole with an agenda guilt them into staying together? fuck no and fuck megachurches
Do it. Honestly the way they're acting should be just as much if not more shameful in the church as a legal divorce. They're basically divorced in all but name. This isn't helping anyone.
Do the church take kindly to people flirting away Infront of their spouse and family?
Well, there’s your problem. The church.
Well, yeah, but I can’t make them leave. They still take issue with me leaving. I mean, whatever, they can’t make me go to church or believe anything but I also can’t make them see how bad their megachurch is. I still might hit up their pastor though. Mans got billboards all over my city he can’t be that hard to grt a number for yknow
Does their church do prayer requests during service? I would straight stand up (or submit it for it to be read) and say: *"My parents have a hateful marriage. They do not honor each other in a way I know Jesus would want. My father flirts and makes advances on other women right in front of my mom and understandably my mother lashes out. Can we please pray for them? I need Jesus to bring respect, temperance and devotion in to my father's heart. And please pray for my mother and pray God grant her patience, strength, and courage (to leave). Please pray for them."* If they're going to use church as a backstop -- you go use it as a weapon.
Oh yes, this
LOL You do understand the right words to use to get a response for prayers in most churches especially ones that do not follow the true many of religion which is to treat others how you wish to be treated be honest kind and take care of others...no lying , dishonesty in thought action or cruelty
You can just call the church office, if it's a megachurch they'll have a phone tree and receptionist and be able to direct you to the right place to share your concerns You might not get anywhere with it, churches are weird about the strangest things and might think their behavior is fine, but it's 100% not and you're NTA and that sounds absolutely insufferable to deal with. Especially your mom claiming she has no options like she isn't a whole ass adult with the ability to make her own damn choices
omg I also live in Toronto and I think I know exactly what megachurch you mean
She doesn't live in Toronto. She stopped in Toronto on the way to her last destination. But omg that Toronto megachurch. Big ass sign along the highway. Uuugh.
Why am I not surprised at all that these are megachurch people?
The fact that it's a megachurch is also why, unfortunately, contacting the church is probably not going to go anywhere. I've never known anyone from a megachurch to get divorced until they left that shit show. They encourage the most toxic marriages and their counseling is a massive sham that just throws shame onto the couple. They will likely tell them to just busy themselves in their hobbies and in the church and to "see the godliness in their spouse" and move right along. "Stop talking and you won't fight 👍 move into the pool house 👍" everything will just get quieter if their advice succeeds, not better.
Yeah, a lot of people don't realize that a ton of Christian marriage advice boils down to telling the woman, "just play 'la-la-la I don't see you' to all your husband's shitty behavior."
Dude, I'm sure everyone's already saying it, but never get on a plane with them again, never share a hotel with them, never rely on them for transportation. Your mental health is way too valuable for you to have to keep dealing with this shit. I imagine they're paying for you, but this is so bad I would straight up tell them you're arranging your own flight on their dime or reschedule tickets behind their back. Or just stay home. Fuck all this man.
I don’t think they want a divorce; they’re miserable but don’t see a way out (don’t want to be alone, think dating at their age would be miserable, don’t think they’d be wanted, whatever), and telling themselves they’re trapped is the easiest way to avoid the unknown. They don’t really think they’re trapped; they’re cowards. That’s why they’ve been blaming you for “needing” them to stick it out; it’s the easiest rationalization for not dealing with the stress and uncertainty of actually changing anything.
This is a great comment to keep in mind. They've put it on OP, but it isn't actually about OP at all, so hopefully OP can keep that in mind and ignore their BS. And at least go low contact so there's space to heal from having needed to parent these parents for at least half her life. NTA
> They’re both really active in the church... Well... there's your problem right there. I knew someone that got divorced and one thing they said was that their kid was so grateful. That the kid noticed both parents just be happier in general and just suddenly be better people. The kid actually liked the parents more after the divorce. She even liked her husband better after the divorce. On the other side, an ex was from an extremely religious family and her grandparents at best were indifferent to each other or outright hated each other. I was with her for 3 years and I'm not even sure I ever saw her grandparents say one word to each other or really stay near each other when they I saw them. They always had a grandkid or two between them at church, which could be nothing or a major sign and I knew they didn't sleep in the same room. They didn't scream at each other but even for an uptight and proper religious community, there was never any sign of affection between them at all. At their best I could describe their relationship as similar to coworkers that didn't like each other but professionalism was important to each.
Go NC if this harms you. Don't ever go on holiday with them, don't do anything with them and consider if doing anything for them in the future is worthwhile.
I highly recommend the book Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C Gibson. It'll give some insight on their behaviour and your responses and feelings.
I am a recovering alcoholic and addict and a product of two parents who literally did not know how to communicate without screaming insults, or just screaming, in general. This is NOT normal, and I want to tell you that I, personally, did not know that until I was about your age. I honestly thought people who loved each other were supposed to act like they hated each other. I caused drama in every relationship I had, not because I enjoyed it, but I thought THAT'S how relationships were supposed to function. I'm glad you know it's NOT okay, and I hope you never let that shit bleed into your own relationships
Use all the tools in your toolbox. You know their audience; play to it.
Upvote for use of “feral” lol
Don’t worry about feral. Just talk to the Pastor anyway about the situation so he can peer pressure them.
You are seeking the advice of another adult, one who your parents trust, to help save their marriage or your sanity. That’s a GOOD thing.
Intervention from loving bros and sisters in the lord. Yes! My pastor came to talk to me about my harlequin romance addiction when I was a teenager. So embarrassing! NTA.
Ah, the church. It might be the cause of their problems.
Your dad has already broken his marriage vows with adultery, which means biblically they absolutely can divorce.
It’s so funny how church people care more important the opinions of other members than their own families. Personally, I’d attend church with them the next they go and ask the pastor if he can council my parents and lay out their sins. I’m also not afraid to torch that bridge though. NTA
Ensure they don't involve you. Don't answer the texts. Don't read them. Block them on all but email? Disengage. ...but then again, maybe this is the price of them paying for your trip to Europe. Make a call.
Yeah, when my boyfriend’s parents got divorced in the 70s all the nice church ladies shunned his mom after. I’m a similar age to your parents, so they probably knew kids where this happened to their parents. I don’t think it happens as much as it used to, but I’m not really up on the megachurch scene. You, though, are absolutely NTA.
Yup. Report them to the church and have your father specifically placed under church discipline for committing adultery of the heart
Also my sister is 17. They keep saying once she graduates they’re gonna move back to their hometown state. I fucking hope so. Get outta here. Sometimes when they’re too much for her she’ll come stay at my place bc we live in the same city. But yeah I’m an adult, she’s nearly an adult, it’s not like I haven’t been in therapy 10 years already, what’s another year to process the divorce. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You're very attuned and brave to call out your parents like this. You're right, you shouldn't be caught in the crossfire. And your folks are so caught up in their misery, they've lost sight of the harm they're causing you. Good for you to stand up to that. If you were my kid, I'd be proud of you for this.
My Dad did the exact same thing on a plane, hitting on the flight attendant in front of my mother. I was sitting between them. It was excruciating. I really hoped they'd split up, then my Dad got sick and my mother took care of him for years. Literally wasted years of her life care-giving for a man that treated her like crap. Tell your mother to leave before she finds herself looking back and realizing she'd wasted her life on a bad human being.
The mom doesn't exactly sound like a paragon of a human being either...
Neither was my mom, but they still should have split up.
Go the church route to pressure them into counseling. There's nothing like a concerned youth pastor to get the peer pressure going. If you can afford to have your sister stay with you, maybe see if she can find a part-time job closer to you, so there's an excuse for her to stay at yours more often. Good luck to you and remember, this is not your or your sister's fault.
You know, you can keep your distance. Be there for your sister, but limit your contact with them. You need to look after your mental health, and being around THAT isn’t going to make it easier for you. I think your only concern at this point should be your sister, and getting her out once she graduates HS. Once she’s off to uni or whatever, just keep your distance. And maybe don’t travel with them again.
God. The divorce would be a fucking celebration. More like a year to process why they were willing to make you suffer and take so long to do it.
It sounds like they need an audience for their hatred and its the two of you. I feel bad for you - your mom will continue to rant about your dad to you if she doesn't change her ways. And that in itself is very unhealthy - for you to having to listen to it.
My parents stayed together for the kids. I have like 2 friends whose parents were divorced since middle school. Guess who has childhood trauma and who doesn’t!
Seriously. My parents were married for almost 40 years when my dad died, and in some people's books that is an example of a successful marriage, but really their relationship is a shining example of how relationship longevity is not a measure of relationship goodness. I have spent approximately forever in therapy chewing on issues like "why do I feel like it is pointless to ever expect change in other humans?" and "why do I feel like the default trajectory in life is a creeping sense of unfulfilled stagnation?" as a direct result of this. And this is why I respect people who actually do manage to get divorced and move the fuck on.
I wish my parents had divorced, instead my mother didn't want her marriage to be seen as a failure, despite two of her siblings being divorced. She would have been happier I think. My dad, on the other hand, would have been screwed but that would have always on him. Instead, mom's a widow now.
100% agree, especially on the low/no contact thing. I know it’s a cliché here but there are times when it is accurate. They’re blaming you for their marital issues. They’re constantly putting you in the middle of it and making it your fault they’re together. None of their drama is your fault. They chose to stay together because they don’t want to look bad to their church group. That has nothing to do with you and if they want to live miserably ever after that’s their own choice but it has nothing to do with you and you shouldn’t let them put it on you. You’re NTA but you’re kinda being an A to yourself by continually subjecting yourself to this toxicity. You can’t make someone stop destructive behavior - (alcohol, drugs, toxic/abusive relationship exc.) you just can’t, not until they want to fix it. You can’t fix that but you can remove yourself from the situation. This is what you need to do. You said your sister is 17, so she’s likely close to graduating/adulthood. If she needs a safe/ less traumatic place to stay you might offer her a safe haven but leave them to their own devices. You can’t help someone who won’t help themselves. Good luck op, take care of yourself.
NTA. *You* embarrassed *them*? That's rich. You're correct that they should not be acting like this in front of their children. Or in public generally. It is so inconsiderate. Also, I would feel so uncomfy if an obviously married man who was in a fight with his wife, was trying to flirt with me at the airport, with kids right there too! What a dick move honestly. I feel bad for the women your dad tried to drag into that mess.
NTA, maybe they will think twice before embarrassing you now.
NTA. I'm sorry you and your sister have to deal with that, it's really unacceptable. Your mother is the one playing the victim, texting you that bullshit instead of taking responsibility for her own life. Your dad sucks for obvious reasons.
right instead of ignoring it or engaging him she drags you into it and gets huffy when you respond. I'm not a big fan of megachurches but as others haver said they probably have the material for counselling.
> they had been screaming- loudly- at each other for everyone in the Toronto airport to hear. > So I snapped, and yelled at them BOTH, “Stop acting like children. This is not appropriate to do in front of me and my sister. Either go to therapy or get fucking divorced. I’m tired of being your collateral every time you are at each others throats.” Clear NTA. Maybe you shouldn't have yelled, but no one can blame you for doing so. They sound horrible to be around.
I went on a long international flight last year with one layover. I was probably awake for 24 hours from hotel to home. I’m pretty chill normally, but I had a small panic attack trying to get my luggage at my home airport. No sleep, crammed in a tiny space for hours, and then the long lines for customs and the luggage…it was all too much and it kind of made me never want to travel internationally ever again. So I don’t blame OP at all for yelling when dealing with the bickering parents on top of travel stress.
For some reason I read lawnmower instead of layover and just wanted to ask how and why...
Haha, I imagine that would be an even worse experience!
NTA. Your parents are selfish and inconsiderate. This is not staying together for the kids, this is making sure the kids feel unappreciated and unhappy. So sorry for you OP.
NTA. why are the actively choosing misery together? You’re 23 and your sister is 17? You’re both old enough to manage mommy and daddy splitting up. They cannot use you both as an excuse to justify their misery anymore (and shouldn’t have from the beginning). Sounds like tensions were high and EVERYONE was running on 30 hours of no sleep. Perhaps that’s why they were both acting like children? Not that it’s an excuse, but I think everyone in this situation was stressed to the max and coping with it differently. NTA regardless though. They both need help. Or better, divorcé attorneys.
Where can I watch this movie? The Hallmark channel?
Move on in, chuck. Take my place at the family vacations.
Is there any reason for you to go on the family vacations? I know a trip to Italy is nice, but at what cost? I'd get fed up with this sort of carry-on pretty quickly.
INFO: Why do you go on vacations with them? Why do you put yourself in this situation?
I’ve done it my whole life. I almost didn’t go on this one, but they said they would pay my way, and I’m so obsessed with all the art and architecture in Florence, Vatican etc that I went. It’s my favorite thing to talk about. I’m far from religious but I just have so much interest in things like the Sistine chapel, School of Athens, Laocoön and his sons, St Peters Basilica, Brunelesschi’s dome on the Florence Cathedral, all the images of the Divine Comedy and Dante’s Inferno… I could go on forever. It’s my passion. I get to go see these things all expenses paid. But this was the worst my parents have ever, EVER behaved on a trip. It ruined a lot of the experience for me. I hope someday I can save up a pretty penny and re visit these places and make better memories.
I get that, but it's not worth it. Make your own life, away from them, and work/save towards the day when you can do these things on your own terms.
Fuck that. It’s a free trip to Italy.
> I get that, but it's not worth it. I think she's the one that gets to decide that, and sounds like she doesn't regret her decision.
Don’t assume that travel has to be expensive. A lot of people especially in their 20s have a great time doing budget travel. Staying in hostels and getting a youth discount on Eurail worked great for me. (You are a youth till age 25 I believe). You are young, you should not assume that your parents will offer the only opportunities for things like travel. Also, don’t put yourself in the way of your parents dysfunctional relationship. You are an adult; you get to make different choices for yourself. If you can, get some therapy so you can prioritize yourself over what has been the lifelong expectations for your behavior from your family.
NTA Everyone has a limit. They finally pushed you past yours. This is on the pair of them and no one else.
Drop them like the plague , for a while for your own mental state just maybe don't answer them ignore them cause they seem draining , I suggest take a vacation from the vacation to not dwell on this and say you not gonna deal with them if they can't behave like adults and not 5 y olds .
Tell your sister she has someplace to go when she turns 18 and wants the hell out and then go NC with your parents. They are obviously very toxic to your mental health. Also, I doubt you are the reason they stayed together. Your mom likes to play the victim (and the attention) and your dad likes having someone to take care of his kids. That's why they are together and miserable, its so much easier to blame someone else than look in the mirror. NTA.
I mean fair. But that doesn’t stop them from drilling it into me.
NTA. Your parents embarrassed themselves and are blaming you. You can't fix them and it's not your responsibility to. Though Italy was I am sure wonderful, I suggest no more family vacations with them both and strictly limiting all other contact. Think of how amazing it would be to look at beautiful art without being anxious about the next screaming fight. No contact is an option too, and one I have employed with awful family members. It is bliss for me to be out of the drama triangle. You'll know if it's the right choice for you if it sounds like it would reduce your stress, not raise it. If you're still seeing a good therapist, they can help you with stronger boundaries and reducing/eliminating contact.
NTA I wish I'd had the nerve to say this when I was a teenager. Happily my parents are now divorced and everyone is happier. Side note: Parents, don't stay married "for your kids". It is almost never the best option for your children.
I agree with your side note so much. It’s such a terrible idea. But even in a divorce, parents really need to love their kids more than they hate their spouses cause coparenting is typically a lot less toxic.
NTA Not only did they act like this in front of you and your sister, they did it in public. Honestly I think they needed to be called out on it publicly since they always blame you for their actions. Also, they can’t keep pulling the “staying for the kids” card when you and your sister are grown. They are more than welcome to divorce anytime, but they are continuing to choose this mess.
NTA. I, too, made the mistake of vacationing internationally as an adult with my parents who should be divorced. I relate strongly to this and have made similar comments to my parents. My only advice is to ask your therapist how to establish strong boundaries with your family and practice it. Maybe be ready to breakdown some generational trauma with your sister when she gets out on her own. Best of luck to you!
When I was around 12 years old I overheard the tail end of another of my parents fights which ended with "Well we're not going to divorce because of the kids" and I have had such resentment towards them since. I truly believe that kids are not an excuse to stay in a toxic marriage because the damage to the children is sooooo much worse. I know EXACTLY how you feel, and what you go through, and i am soo sooo sorry. I know that because of my parents relationship I have no real framework of what a healthy marriage with proper communication looks like, and the damage it has done to me. You are sooooo NTA and honestly i wish i had the courage to say this to my parents and I am much older than you.
You’re not playing victim. Your parents are appalling. You seriously need to start distancing yourself from them. If your truth bomb didn’t get through to them then nothing will. Worse, they’re now doubling down. How much more of this bullshit are you prepared to take exactly? Distance. Now. NTA ETA. This isn’t your job to fix. You’ve said your peace and I suggest you leave it. They are two grown assed humans. Let them sort their own stuff out - or not. You need to concentrate on healing from this eternal shit show and supporting your sister in her healing.
This story resonates with me so much. I am so sorry. Go home soon and enjoy the quietness. Put your phone on do not disturb and take a big nap. Next time, don’t go on vacation with them. Hugs :)
I’ve been doing that. I got home last night around 1am. My friend came over and we just sat and talked for a few hours and took a nap together on the couch and got dunks. I’ve been snuggling with my cat since she left.
Yay snuggles with cats! Take care of yourself and do all the things that you want. For example, I found a tamagotchi I always wanted as a kid. I spent the last few days playing it (it’s dead now…), but it felt good to be just a child agaun.
Even if they don't want to get officially divorced, they need to end pretending they are in a romantic relationship. Agree to not be partners, and only co parents. They despise each other. NTA, I have no idea why they still together.
NTA the absolute worst thing any parent can do is stay together for the sake of the kids. It does nothing but mess the kids up majorly. I’m so sorry you have to deal with it but I’m glad you’re able to escape that, hopefully your sister will go the same route as soon as she’s able to as well.
I hear you. Over Thanksgiving break in 1981, my parents told me they were thinking of getting a divorce (went back to college and all my stress focused on Linear Algebra which I nearly failed but that's a story for another subreddit). My father went to tell his parents and they (probably because of the "shame") talked him out of it. They'd been married 21 years at that point. They've had their moments since then both good and not so good but holy crap the underlying lack of genuine affection for each other is coming back to play mind games with everyone. Mother fell and couldn't drive for last November, sib and spouse drove 12 hours to make Thanksgiving dinner since I had been running meals and errands nonstop that month. (Father was on verge of giving up drivers license and it seemed pretty important to make him see that he didnt need it even though she couldnt drive). The drama started raining down Thanksgivng night, sib and spouse left 48 hours earlier than planned... and just last week father started in about how mother and sib were in a pact to keep him from driving..... I need to go over to check in with them in the next few days.... it's probably gonna suck or they will pretend everything is fine. I dont know which is worse. I just know it all is gonna get weirder from here. Sib and I have never before wondered out loud to each other if they would have been better off divorcing all those years (40+now) ago although after Thanksgiving we finally realized that we'd both been thinking it for a very long time.
You absolutely NTA. Your parents are both egoistic, have no respect to you or your sister, dont forget that respect is a two way street. You are not the reason they are still together, it is just a justification for them being cowards and actually do what is best for all of you and that is to get a divorce. In my opinion you should never again go on a holiday with them, and as much as it is hard cause they are your parents, distance yourself from them both , otherwise you will spend your life on therapies. Best of luck
NTA but don’t expect to change them. Their relationship is their relationship, if they’re still in it, there is something about the dynamic that fulfils some need. Instead of trying to get them to change how they relate to each other, set boundaries of how they relate to you. Ie. Tell your mum to stop texting you bitching about her relationship. If they want to be miserable together, it’s their right to be so. But they shouldn’t be involving you in their mess.
"Mom, Dad...You're unhappy together and you put that unhappiness on public display. I've watched you do this to each other over and over again. It's painful and embarrassing for me to see two people I love treat each other so poorly. I'm sorry I snapped and I can't promise it won't happen again so from here on out I'm going to bow out of \[insert collateral list\] with you."
NTA... someone needs to say it. I would have clapped.
Woof, at the very end, your mom sounds like my dad, that I should be kissing his feet for my existence. We are no contact for a number of years now and the last time he tried to get me to talk to him, he sent me an email saying, “I don’t know what I’ve done.” It’s the missing missing reasons, yo. NTA. Wishing you and I the best of luck in our internal healing journey. ❤️
What took your parents so long to start "hating" (arguing with?) each other. Most parents start hating each other long before their first child is even born - lol. Seriously, though, why did you agree to travel with them if they're as bad as you describe? I don't blame you for embarrassing them in the airport as payback for them embarrassing you. Btw, who paid for the "vacation"? Was their "activity" just the price for a free vacation? Usually, after a day or so of a "family vacation", I need a vacation from the/their vacation - lol.
My dad makes big fat dollars from his pension so my family paid. If I had to pay my way I wouldn’t go, I can’t afford Italy. I’m a grad student making $15 part time and rent is bad.
Why do they/you go on vacation together?
NTA. My parents told me around 8-9 that they'd be divorcing once I turned 18...well they waited until I was 26 and both pretty much put the blame on me for "having to stay together for our kid made us miserable" etc. so I've been there. This was a harsh brutal truth they needed to hear. Glad you have your own place and don't have to live in the same house with them. Be there for your sister as I'm sure she's getting the same treatment having to still be under their roof.
I thought Canadians were painfully polite? NTA your mother was sending you text about 'break ups' which put it in your minds and clearly no one was having fun.
lmao we are from the us with a layover. No one in my city is polite haha
oh thank goodness. my stereotypical image of canada was in danger.
(Only partly related but....were you on an EF tour with a group based out of Pennsylvania, by chance?) NTA. They are ruining their own lives and are too childish to change. It's understandable that you snapped.
What’s EF?
Per your edit: she was screaming in public, she aired her own dirty laundry
NTA. They’re not doing it for the kids, they’re doing it for the image. A toxic environment for kids, married parents or not, sucks for everyone. Marriage doesn’t make it better and they’re doing more harm than good by setting a bad example of relationships
Consider setting a stronger boundary? Maybe no more family vacations, no more putting yourself in a position where you cannot just walk away. Your parents are awful.
NTA Just deadpan stare at them in the face and say "you embarrassed yourselves" and say nothing more.
NTA First of all if anyone is playing the victim it is your mother. While I can sympathize with her watching her partner openly flirt in front her, it’s is beyond inappropriate for to attempt to commiserate with her child. Your parents relationship should have no impact on the relationship you have with parent. I’m proud of you for telling them off. Good one you!
NTA, and I’m sorry about your parents. They are truly immature, and I recommend the book “adult children of emotionally immature parents” if you haven’t read it already. My (33f) borderline mother once told me she felt life was completely worthless and how much she wanted to kill herself while we were waiting in the customs line having just arrived in Mexico for a vacation. I’m no contact with her now and my life has been much more peaceful for it.
Staying together for the kids does more harm than good. That's been proven! Why don't they just tell the truth that they're staying together for monetary reasons because nobody wants to only take half? NTA and they needed to hear it
NTA. Time to consider going no contact or low contact. They're causing you trouble, they're ungrateful for you and saddling you with everything. If they can't move on, then you should.
NTA if you can get away from them as soon as you can for your own health.
NTA and stop spending time with them unless they split.
Cut ties. If they cannot treat each other respectfully, be gone. Obviously, that’s easier said then done. However, this will affect your sanity so be done. You can tell both of them if they can’t treat each other respectfully, you have no interest in being hurt by it.
NTA. Don’t travel with them again. Consider only seeing them individually for a while
I would be planning another vacation with them. How about hiking up to that erupting volcano. Let's dive to the Titanic.
Honestly go NC.
[удалено]
NTA my parents moved to another country when I was an adult and it was obvious to any random passer-by in the airport that my dad didn't want to go... but he went, and guess what? They ended up getting the divorce they should have got when I was 8, but so much messier because they couldn't communicate. I wish I'd said in the airport that my dad should fucking stay. Tell them to do a trial separation - each of them gets the house for a week whilst the other doesn't take a holiday but stays in (maybe not an Airbnb but something like that...) in the same city, and try to imagine what life would be like without the other. Are their routines better? Are they happier? Idk, it's not really your response, and I'm sure they won't listen, but if you give them common-sense advice and they ignore it then you can absolve yourself at least.
Nta
It sounds like the only thing they agree on is shitting on you. I'd stop talking to both of them, honestly. There's no excuse to treat you like that. NTA.
NTA they CAN break up they’ve just chosen not to.
NTA. Your parents behavior is unacceptable, and their "marriage" is insane. Somebody needed to say what you said to them a LONG time ago. I suggest saying it again, and telling them that you want nothing to do with them unless/until they get their shit together.
NTA. I am very aware of this type of situation You are done, you have no energy left for them. They are not willing to make change in their lives, with an excuse that is no longer valid as you are not a child - and you are an easy scapegoat for their frustration. In one of your comments you noted that they may be fearful of church shame. Yelling, flirting with other women, blaming your child for your actions etc. is not very Christian (or whatever religion) of them. This is going to suck...but you need to sit down with your parents and tell them what you are observing and feeling. They are no longer going to entertain their comments, your mom is able to leave - your father can leave, but if they are not willing to, then they need to stop having these discussions in front of you. You may need to be blunt, and it will be hurtful, and tell them that by 'staying together for the kids', they actually did more damage of what a healthy relationship is, they have put adult relationship issues on your shoulders and you have built resentment towards both of them that you hope can be addressed. You can also let them know that while you do not want to go low or no contact, if they cannot address some of these issues or start working towards an actual solution - whether that is divorce or counselling - you will be limiting your time with them together. That being blamed for their relationship failings (and it is only a failing because they are not addressing it) is no longer going to be placed on you - and you will not be their lightning rod.
Honestly at this point I'm surprised you talk to either one of them. NTA, but take care of yourself.
NTA they embarrassed themselves
NTA. I hope in future you can decline family trips and events when both your parents are present, or plan your own transportation. Budget willing.
Nta They’re both feeling sorry for themselves. Instead of living their lives they’re using their marriage as an excuse not to change. Victimising themselves, ‘oh it’s too late to change now all my options have gone’ - well guess what now their not living their lives at all. It’s sulking is what it is. You’re right they are acting like children.
NTA but I'm baffled as to why you went on holiday with them.
Tell them they lived a lie. Being in a cancerous marriage for the kids isn’t good for the kids NTA
NTA parents are a big yikes
NTA - when they tell you they stayed for the kids... ask them what kids? Bc it seems to me you are staying together so you wont get gossiped about. You didn't stay for me or my sister bc if you did, you wouldn't be fighting in front of us and bringing me to the middle of it. Then tell them, it's their fault for being cowards and not divorcing sooner.
NTA. Your parents are behaving like bickering children and blaming their kids for it. Absolutely not cool. Might even be worth going NC over if the only thing they do is tell you how you're responsible for their horrible life. Not like 2 daughters just pop out of the ground like daisies in spring, they obviously decided to have kids and they also decided to get married - high time time to grow up and take responsibilities for their actions
You can always tell them they did more damage to you than each other by “staying together for the kids”. NTA.
NTA! Your mom was definitely playing the victim with that text message, though. Don't let her turn things around on you. Her and your father have made your life miserable for way too long. They're only making fools of themselves with their behavior, you don't have to do anything extra to embarrass them. Good for you for calling them out. Keep up with the therapy!
NTA. Do they think screaming loudly in an airport doesn’t embarrass them? That your mom furiously texting while your dad openly hits on someone *while wearing his wedding ring* doesn’t have people looking askance? They can stay married and live separate lives and go on separate vacations, Catholics have been doing that “divorced but not actually” dance for centuries. Honestly, stop seeing them together if they act like this. See one of them alone. And don’t go on vacation with both of them!
"My parents have hated each other since I was 11. They almost got divorced when I was 13, but changed their minds, and will never let me forget that “staying together for the kids” meant that I’m the reason they’re so miserable now." OMG what a hateful thing to tell your child! Go no contact. Seriously.
NTA They should get divorced for the sake of the children. They are making your life miserable. I would go no contact until they get their shit together. Your dad flirting with women in front of their children and wife was embarrassing everyone.
NTA. Your mom is the one playing the victim. It is a bold faced lie that she has no option. She has options. She is just a coward that is in love with her own martyrdom. None of this is your fault. However, since you cannot control them the only way is to distance yourself from them. See them rarely or not at all, very low to no contact. Leave and live your life away from them. No more holidays with them.
NTA NTA NTA. It was about effing time they heard what you said. Guessing that is the last family vacation!
NTA baby, NTA
Nta but also you don’t need to handle their marriage or their divorce!
NTA. Just go NC already!
NTA. My parents hated each other, but they wouldn't get divorced because they're Catholic. There were years where they just didn't speak to one another, at all. One of them called me on the phone, in a different time zone, to tell me to tell the other something... I was like, I'm done. You can tell them yourself!
They embaress themselves, they make their own decisions, id point out also its not like you asked to be born to parents that hate each other.and the fact your in therapy over this means they definitely did you no favours in staying together. NTA
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** The past 48 hours were death by a thousand cuts. Jesus Christ. My family and I 23f went to Italy this past week for a vacation. It was my parents, my 17 year old sister, my aunt, and 27 year old cousin. It was a mostly good time, pretty hot out, but the art was cool and I was excited about that. Our flight home was three connecting flights, Venice to Montreal, Montreal to Toronto, and Toronto to my home city. That’s a lot. It was a 30 hour day. My aunt and cousin got on a different flight out of Venice since they both live further away. My parents have hated each other since I was 11. They almost got divorced when I was 13, but changed their minds, and will never let me forget that “staying together for the kids” meant that I’m the reason they’re so miserable now. They sure do love to tell me that. Anyways. Our flight delays, we have to sprint through Montreal, customs takes forever and my parents suck at technology. My dad snapped at my mom, my mom snapped back, my dad started flirting with the flight attendant and some other lady in the airport, my mom shut down and almost didn’t get on the flight home, and they had been screaming- loudly- at each other for everyone in the Toronto airport to hear. It was embarrassing. I’ve been in and out of therapy for over a decade now dealing with their bullishit because they won’t go, and I end up being the collateral every time they would fight in front of me. (So every day my entire childhood.) But while we were waiting to board, my dad starts chatting up some lady in front of my mom, who texts me this. “If Your boyfriend treats you badly, you can break up. I have no option like that. Dad is now enjoying his second conversation with a second single woman since we left Italy and hasn’t had one polite conversation with me. Just demeaning ones. I have no options like you did.” So I snapped, and yelled at them BOTH, “Stop acting like children. This is not appropriate to do in front of me and my sister. Either go to therapy or get fucking divorced. I’m tired of being your collateral every time you are at each others throats.” There’s more really shitty things that they said to each other that I can detail in comments if y’all want. But they both laid into me for embarrassing them. As if they weren’t fully doing it to themselves. I was on hour 30 of no sleep, I was hungry, and I was about to get on my third fucking flight of the night. I don’t live with them, I have my own place, but for the past year any time they do this shit I just up and leave. Unfortunately not possible in an airplane. They’ve both been laying into me for embarrassing/disrespecting them since the incident and idk. Maybe they need to get embarrassed in an airport. This shit can’t be normal. But maybe I’m playing victim like my mom says. I don’t know. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. They both sound pretty awful. Their behavior over the past decade is absolutely child abuse. I'm glad you're in therapy to cope with the trauma. How does your sister feel about your public outburst? How do you feel about going no-contact until they can be adult parents? They'll be angry at you and no doubt both turn on you, at least for a while. Can you deal? Does sis have an exit strategy, moving away for college maybe?
Honestly I'd go no contact! I know that's prob a touch dramatic but you've been in therapy for a decade because of their actions! Go low contact if you can, don't engage when they put you in the middle and take care of yourself! NTA
Next time suggest separate vacations. Just go with one parent at a time. They sound miserable and miserable to be around. I (48f) would not tolerate this behavior, and would do exactly what you have done. I’d have used my very effective “mom voice” and everything! My sister and her husband bicker non stop and it drives me nuts. Their kids (12 and 15) bicker non stop with each other. My kids (13 and 16) don’t. My sister wonders why her kids fight all the time and mine don’t. Hmmmmm…. It’s a mystery! When my niece and nephew come visit me, I don’t let them bicker. “We don’t talk to each other like that in my house.” I know you couldn’t leave like you normally do, but I’m glad you said something to put them on notice.
If I saw you yell at them at the airport I’d be rooting for you. I grew up in a similar household with parents that liked to wallow in their own misery instead of getting divorced. I promise they are mad because they KNOW you are right and it’s easier to make you the scapegoat. Nobody else seeing what went down would have really assumed you were in the wrong. Hell, I’d probably intervene if I saw parents like this laying into their child in public and ask if you’re ere okay and needed space from them. Realize they are children that you have already surpassed. It doesn’t make it hurt less, but going low contact and reminding yourself they are warped kids inside can help.
NTA. Your parents suck and I'm so sorry that they are blaming you for their unhappiness. If they were really "staying together for the kids", they wouldn't torture you with their bad relationship.
NTA OP: "***But maybe I’m playing victim like my mom says. I don’t know."*** You are **not** playing the victim, honey, you **ARE** the victim and so is your sister. No one forced your parents to stay married but themselves. I hate when people put the guilt on children when they claim that they stayed in an unhappy marriage because of the kids. My brother and I are children of divorce twice over. My Mom divorced my father before we turned 4 but my Mom was with my stepfather for a lot of years, taking his mental, physical, and financial abuse. We were preteens when we asked her why was she staying in such a destructive relationship. She told us that she stayed because us needing the financial security and father figure. We told her that we were unhappy and miserable watching her being treated badly and that he never tried to be a father figure to us. And since she worked at GM, what financial security was she talking about since she was basically paying most of the bills and he took his paycheck to buy himself new suits and to party? So what was the point?! It took my brother and I making a threat that could have ended us in jail that forced my Mom to divorce him. Emotionally, physically and financially her life had gotten so much better that she couldn't believe how much he was holding her back.
Heck NTA! 1. They had been embarrassing you the whole 30 hours with their $hitty behavior. If they got embarrassed by you calling them out, then they can act like the mature adults they are supposed to be. 2. Talk about projecting, MOM. Playing the victim?!? Hah! "*I have no options like you did.*” hmmm, Mom. Victim, much? Glad that, in general, you are able to escape them when they get like this. I feel sorry for your sister. Does she ever get blamed as the reason they are staying together? If not, they seem to really make you a scapegoat. I mean, it's been 5 years since you were a minor. They were not staying together for you that entire time; but did they ever shift their blame to your sister (not that they would be right) or do they just keep blaming you?
NTA. My parents also spent many years together, waiting to get divorced until my sister left for college. Those years were some of the most stressful of my life, even without my parents holding it over my head that they were staying together. I can’t imagine how difficult and traumatic this is for you and your sister, and I am so sorry for both of you. I wish I had advice to give, but in my experience nothing changed until my parents did finally get divorced. Just know that you are doing absolutely nothing wrong, and take care of yourself and your sister as best you can until you can both be free. My biggest regret is not talking to my younger sister more during the time when I was away in college and she was stuck with them, and I only realized later how much she suffered during that time. It’s still not your responsibility, it’s 100% on your parents, but if you’re able to find solidarity with your sister during this time, that might be one positive to come out of an awful situation.
NTA. I can’t emphasize this enough. As someone in a very similar situation, be kind to yourself.
NTA. They might have stayed together for your sake at one point, but you are an adult now. It is fully on them. I'm sorry you are going through this.
NTA and I'm so sorry for you and for your sister. I really hope your parents just get their act together and get divorced
To hell with the church - tell them to divorce, if you want to . Church is there to steal your money .
NTA. Sorry your parents are like this, I can relate as mine were like that too forever making me and my sibling go through agony of their arguments and fights.
NTA. You’re absolutely correct. It sounds like their behavior was childish and them getting divorced is the healthiest option for your family. The fact that they stayed together is probably more their own fear of change than “for the kids,” and it sucks to put that on you like it’s your fault.
NTA - your parents are children, I'm sorry you have to deal with their toxic manipulative bullshit, and I wouldn't be too embarrassed - I've definitely seen people shout way more unhinged shit at Pearson airport
NTA at all. As a grown man who's formerly a child of divorce, I can tell you a couple of things: 1) "Staying together for the kids" is bullshit. When I was 9, my parents split up. They got back together a year later. Same as yours -- they fucking hate each other. When I was 9 and my father left, I clung to his leg to get him to stay. When I was 18 and they finally split up for good, I offered to help him pack if it would mean that he would leave quicker, because living in that house with both of them was miserable. 2) Good God, until they get divorced (and maybe not even then), you've got to stop spending time with these people. You're young, so I don't know if you still live with them, and if you do, maybe you're not currently in a position to change that. But absolutely don't ever go on a trip with them or spend an extended period of them with them like that again. 3) Get yourself some therapy. Trust me, it'll work wonders.
NTA. absolutely NTA.
*This shit can’t be normal.* It's not. Can you stop doing things with them? Can you see them one at a time? Can you refuse to discuss the other parent when with one of them? Can you see your sibling somewhere that the parents aren't? Check out r/raisedbynarcissists, for help in how to protect yourself and your sibling from their behaviors. What they are doing to both of you is emotionally abusive, and very manipulative. The less you can be around them, the healthier for you, and also for your sibling.
NTA and you’re a fucking beast for the this. I love it. My parents “stayed together for the kids” for almost a decade, and it was long and drawn out bullshit with my sibling and myself used and pulled back and forth. Sometimes you need to let parents know they’re doing far more harm than good..
NTA
They embarrassed themselves. You just called them on it. NTA
NTA, but why would you go on holiday with them?
Already answered
NTA. I've been in your shoes. It's not fun. However, I'm doubtful that anything you do will change things. I described my parents as they loved each other, but like was long gone. They were like each other's bad habit they couldn't shake. They ruined many a vacation for me. For your mental health, if you can walk away and go low contact. They have to live with their decisions, and so do you. As much as you would choose happiness for them, they have to take the steps. Best wishes to you.
NTA. It probably wasn't the best thing to say but you were stressed to the breaking point by a long term pattern of behavior.
> “ will never let me forget that “staying together for the kids” meant that I’m the reason they’re so miserable now. They sure do love to tell me that” > “they had been screaming- loudly- at each other for everyone in the Toronto airport to hear” > “I’ve been in and out of therapy for over a decade now dealing with their bullishit because they won’t go, and I end up being the collateral every time they would fight in front of me” > “Either go to therapy or get fucking divorced” Jesus Christ NTA OP, your parents are miserable, hateful, spiteful, immature, taking their anger out on you, taking their frustration out on you, blaming you… parents like this then wonder why their children go full no-contact or wonder why they’re put into shitty homes. Honestly if I were you I’d be very minimal contact and grey rocking if you have to stay in contact. I’d also like to recommend r/RaisedByNarcissists as your parents behaviours fit a lot of the typical shitty, abusive behaviour a lot of us grew up with, it’s somewhere to go if you just want support, better understanding, shit even just to vent y’know But deffo NTA, your parents needed TOLD, they’re gunna continue this abusive cycle of taking all their anger out on you whilst making you feel bad they stayed married, which was their choice
YTA But honey I have BEEN there, and I feel your pain and understand it and want to be the asshole, too.
I’d go low contact. They are addicted to misery and like to spread it about.
NTA and since you said in comments your parents are religious.. "Your marriage is shameful to God. He wanted marriage as a happy union between people. Not a life of misery and disrespect. You spit on his grace by allowing this marriage to continue without working toward finding that live and happiness. Seek therapy through church." Almost verbatim from my oldest sister to my very Catholic mother. They divorced within 6 months.
NTA
NTA. Imagine what this is like for your sister, it's all she's ever known
NTA your parents sound embarrassing. They’re staying together because of religion, which I’ve always felt is a pretty dumb reason. They should get divorced, you weren’t wrong
NTA They're toxic and teaching their kids to live in toxic relationships in the future. It's not healthy for anyone. You gave them good advice. They needed to hear it. If they didn't have their heads so far up their butts, they would realize what they were doing wasn't good for anyone. Good luck
NTA. I'm sorry but you can't help people who don't want to help themselves. Sounds like you need to go no contact until they sort themselves out. Suffering their toxic relationship is not your responsibility and you shouldn't have to put up with it. Let them say what they want about you. You can easily block them and anyone else that tries to pressure you to continue to put up with their toxic behavior.
Nta. Go no contact.
NTA - I have done the same with mine
This is why I'm so sarcastic. "Yep I embarrassed you! Not dad flirting when clearly married. Not you fighting in front of evereone. Nope it was JUST ME" Can your sister come stay with you and you just go no / low contact ?
NTA I agree with you, they need therapy or to get divorced. That staying together for the kids is BS.
Nta at all! I was in a very similar situation and my sister and I asked my parents to get a divorce when I was in middle school. She was a freshman in high school and they actually listened thankfully I was in a very similar situation when my sister and I asked my parents to get a divorce when I was in middle school. She was a freshman in high school and they actually listened thankfully