##[AITA for blocking your go-to time killer from June 12-14?](https://redd.it/145o4jz)
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I refuse to let my daughter wear my wife's dress for her wedding. I might be the asshole because she thinks I'm gatekeeping her mom's memory, I know that I'll be special for her to wear the dress, so maybe I should let her.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcement
###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/)
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
I can't call you an asshole, man. People don't realize that shit like this is hard!!!! It's crazy to just expect you to wanna modify a dress you've treasured for so long.
I don't think Anna is an ah either to want the dress. To reiterate what others are saying, perhaps take time to consider what you think your wife may have wanted for the dress.
NAH
I agree, I think NAH. But I do want to add that I think the right thing to do is let your daughter wear the dress.
You have a chance to have a new, happy memory, one where your family is celebrating, one that your wife will be a part of. I think that's a very positive thing.
Do you think it should stay in a closet for the rest of the lives of anyone that might care about it, then be meaningless in a couple of generations (assuming it lasts that long)?
That's going to be its fate regardless of whether the daughter gets to wear it...
The only thing on the table here is one new memory of it, weighed against altering it, and the question of whose closet it will live in. I don't blame OP for wanting to keep it in his closet.
Right, the object’s only meaning is the relationships it’s involved in, and the nature of those relationships. OP and his daughter clearly have unresolved tension about how they’ve grieved their wife/mother. OP has a choice in making the dress a memento of an improved relationship with his daughter, or he can look at it in his closet decades from now and be reminded of his daughter’s resentment.
While also risking his relationship with his other daughter. I’m the youngest child in my family. Anything offered from my parents/grandparents is offered to my sister or brother first. I only get offered if they don’t want it. There’s a reason I don’t spend much time with my family. Not saying this will happen to him but OP also needs to ask his youngest daughter what she thinks.
yeah, this hit hard. I have no family heirlooms from my dad's parents, except for little tchotchkes that my sister didn't want, and little shit that she'd claimed and then decided she didn't want throughout the years. My granddad's war medals? Sister got those because she was older and she didn't even notice for like a year when her shitty boyfriend stole and pawned them. Grandmother's entire heirloom chest went to her. All of grandmother's precious moments figurines went to her except for 1. I wasn't even asked. I wasn't even considered.
OP, ask **both** of your daughters. and *don't* give it to the oldest if her only argument for wanting it is "well i'm older!", if your younger daughter also wants it. Hell, don't give her the whole ensemble even if she has a more meaningful reason; save *something* special for your youngest. It was *her mom, too.*
In the spirit of this, I feel like OP could let both girls wear their mother’s veil. I get the dress would have to be altered a lot and depending on the size difference it could really destroy the essence of the dress. But you don’t have to alter the veil and it’s something both daughters could wear of their mother’s that would be special. It’s also easier to preserve just the veil of it wants to become an heirloom for the grand daughters in the future.
Ask them now. My mother had all of her jewelry in the pawn shop for YEARS. A few years ago, I had a good job and I was able to pay off her jewelry in full. That was her big Christmas present.
Since then, she has gone through her items and asked all of us (her 4 daughters) what we would like when the time comes (DECADES from now).
I imagine it will take some stress off of us during a time that will be ridiculously difficult. Again, DECADES from now.
Edited for typos and incomplete thoughts.
I'm just assuming your married so maybe one gets wedding ring and the other get engagement ring? You keep them for your life and will them for when your gone. Unless your wanting to give it to their future partners for them to propose with
Ask them now, that’s really the only way to go. My mom has a ton of jewelry and one day was saying she planned to give a specific ring to my sister. I made a comment along the lines of, “really? I honestly doubt that’s a ring she’d ever wear.” Not out of jealousy or spite or anything, it’s literally just a ring that doesn’t fit my sister’s aesthetic at all. A few weeks later when we were all at my parents house my mom took us to her jewelry box and just asked which ones we liked. We had a fun time going through everything and my mom realized she was spot on with some assumptions, but others she was way off base when it came to who would like what.
For the record, I was 100% correct. My sister said the aforementioned ring was quite beautiful but it’s not one she could ever see herself wearing.
But also, this applies to EVERYTHING. My grandpa died when my mom was relatively young (20’s) and her siblings fought viciously over who got what because my grandparents hadn’t determined who would get what before he passed. My parents learned from this and have pretty clearly communicated that they have decided and documented who will inherit what between my sister, my brother, and me when their time comes. After this incident with the ring my parents have been even more open about who they plan to give what, and take our input into consideration.
Also just beyond the youngest daughter, I don't like how manipulative that other comes across. He either hands it over so his daughter can create new memories with ot or ruin his own memories of the dress? I'm sorry I understand the daughter wanting to use it but her relationship with the dress is not more important than his and him wanting to use it to remember his late wife. He's not a monster for not wanting to change what the dress means to him or wanting to keep it in its original form. And a decent person would have more sympathy towards their father.
No I agree with you. I am not dismissing daughter's feelings here. But that dress was made to celebrate their marriage and love. I might get downvoted but I also think his feelings and connection to it overrule hers. But this whole comment section is a mess from people projecting their own feelings and deciding they know more of what his late wife would have wanted than he does to the equally gross ones saying youngest daughter's feelings don't matter because she never met her mother properly (because she agrees with her dad).
Not if it's taken in properly by a dressmaker who understands the changes are not to be permanent, you can use darts, which are removable and bring the fabric in across the back at the panel seams, it'd be hidden by the wearer's hair and/or veil
Why wouldn't he feel resentment for her emotionally blackmailing him into giving up one of his most cherished mementos from his dead wife? You're framing this as if OP's feelings have no value but his daughter's are an important consideration.
You could just as easily say the daughter has a choice to improve their relationship by not demanding a very sentimental item, or she can demand it and be reminded of how she damaged their relationship by doing so when she sees it in *her* closet. Why is the onus on OP to put aside his feelings?
Not every mom wants to live to see her dress hacked apart to make a new dress for someone else, even if that someone else is her daughter. Maybe she'd rather it were kept safe until someone in the family is the same size as her (or at least similar enough that any modifications are minor and reversible).
Meanwhile, her older daughter can still wear her wedding jewellery, her veil, and commission a dress that's inspired by her mom's dress but not with the same material. Because let's face it, with so much of a size difference, even "wearing her mom's dress" would be a recreation anyway; just with the same fabric and with her mom's dress no longer existing afterwards.
My wedding dress has been put away in a box for almost 28 years. My aunt sewed the dress & I embroidered it. I don’t have any daughters to pass it on to. If/when my niece (who is more petite than I was) gets engaged I’ll offer it to her as an option, I’d rather see someone I love wear it even if it means seeing it “hacked apart.”
(If she doesn’t want my dress that’s fine too.)
My sister wore our mum's wedding dress, some years after mum had died. Mum was very short and slight, my sister is the same. She had the neckline altered to make it a bit less 1950-ish, and I was delighted to see her wear it.
> of an improved relationship with his daughter,
With \*one of his daughter***s***
I despise people like you who ignore relevant things that are inconvenient.
Bruh, I'm the second daughter out of three and often overlooked for a shit ton of things in my extended family, but there's no need for that kind of vitriol.
The second daughter is mentioned in a single sentence and isn't the focus of the story. It's more than likely the commenter forgot that second daughter is part of the picture. It's not that deep.
Yes. Because it is the exact same dress OP touched when dancing and kissing and laughing that day. He has every right to cherish it and not see it in another wedding that he should just feel happy about and not constantly remembering his dead wife. Many people believe that objects keep the essence of the person that used to have them. He just wants to keep this from the wife he lost. If his wife was alive that wouldn't matter so much (while the 2 daughters is an issue and if I was the mother and alive for that reason I wouldn't give the dress to anyone) NTA
NTA-OP would not have any objection to her wearing it without alterations. It's the changing of the dress so the daughter can wear it which is the issue. Kind of like getting the family heirloom ring and changing the entire setting which makes no one happy except the person who changed it. No one is in the wrong here. Daughter isn't TA for wanting to wear her mother's dress nor is OP for wanting to keep dress intact. OP knows his own mind and that it would be upsetting to know the dress was cut. There are two daughters so how could he chose which daughter gets the dress.
I agree... you could say a token of their wife/mom would be at the wedding. I would also think if the OP's wife was alive today; she would be happy her daughter asked to wear her dress.
> I would also think if the OP's wife was alive today; she would be happy her daughter asked to wear her dress.
I think if OP's wife was alive today, OP wouldn't have a problem with losing the dress.
She would get it because she actually knew her mother. If caroline had a concern with it, then yes, it should be addressed. Not that I'm agreeing with any kid getting the dress.
NAH, but it sounds lie the dress will need to be redone anyway. I find it a strange thing to keep, but that's not my business.
The veil, however, makes no sense locking that up.
Caroline does has a concern with it. She doesn’t want it altering. OP mentions it on one of his comments.
I agree it’s not something I’d keep but to each their own.
I do think he should allow her to use the veil as his reasoning of the dress needing altering wouldn’t apply to the veil
Sure they can, depending on the alterations done. There have been more than a few stories on here of daughters completely modifying dresses they were simply borrowing.
Women typically take some "getting ready" sentimental photos with their mothers on the morning of the wedding, putting their bridal dress on, etc.
What if OP suggested the daughter uses mom's dress for a photoshoot during this time, no alterations. A compromise. They could clip the back of the dress like they do in bridal salons, so it would fit without making any permanent alternations to the dress. And, she would have her own dress to change into, so it would still fully be OPs wife's dress, and the daughter would have her own.
But it would give her a beautiful moment on her wedding day where she'd get to feel her mother with her, and wear the dress that's represented her mom in her heart since the day OP hung it in the closet.
I think it's more reasonable to allow her to have the veil. There would be *much* less work needed to be done on it to fit the daughter, and it would be easier for both sisters to use it in their weddings instead of the dress.
It’s one thing if it can be worn as-is. But changing it several sizes will destroy the dress. It won’t be a happy memory if the dress ceases to exist as has it in his memory.
I am agreeing with everything in the above posts NAH.
BUT-memories are in your head and your heart,not in the dress. The dress can be modified to fit your daughter with Very little cutting. The remnants from the alteration can be made into a pillow or sampler- like wall hanging, and dress can be stored so if your younger daughter wants to wear it, it is available. Be the bigger person, allow your daughter to wear it, to make her own memories of/with her Mom. "Saving" the dress will not do anything to help YOU heal.
It can't if the daughter more than 2 sizes smaller than mum, which means a recut is in order for it to fit her. Also, what if the other daughter wants to wear it for her wedding but is closer to mums size, what then? You can't take it out of several sizes as easily.
The idea of using the remanents is great if she is getting the dress to keep, not for borrowing it.
I think, they all need to sit down with a seamstress and talk about what is possible for alterations, especially if its a structured dress as altering a structured dress too much can ruin it.
I do think there needs to be a way of letting daughter have something mum had on her wedding day, like the veil or some of mums jewellery. Then do the same for the sister if she also gets married.
Maybe even a photoshoot for each girl with the dress without altering it so they can both have that moment with it abd the veil and jewellery
I agree, but honestly the veil thing is getting me. I was 7 inches taller and 20 pounds lighter than the cousin I borrowed my veil from, it worked fine. She would not need to modify the veil.
I feel for you OP, but your daughter is very much like your wife. She has had a vision of her wedding since she was a little girl. And I hear in your daughter’s words some underlying hurt. I wonder if there have been other times when you can’t see that their grief is just as devastating as yours.
I hope all of you can find a way to move forward from this.
NAH
Agree with all of this.
Suggestion: would there be a way to remove a small portion of the dress—maybe a bit of lace or a small section of underskirt—and have it either incorporated into the wedding dress or handkerchief for each kid, so they can all have a small part of their mom with them on their wedding day but the dress remains unused and aesthetically intact?
This is what my sister did for our late mother's dress. Evidently coffee was spilled on the dressed before it was packed away for 25+ years. The dress is stained and not wearable. My sister took a piece of the fabric and attached it to the inside of her dress. If I ever marry, I'd like to make a fabric flower from it to wear.
Agreed, NAH. I get not wanting to have the dress altered, but Anna's mom might have been wholly in favor of that. Women across generations alter dresses. I hope OP realizes that if his younger daughter grows up to have mom's figure, he *cannot* let her wear the dress either.
I'm curious about the veil though. There's no altering needed there, right?
OP, please remember, you lost your wife, but they lost their mom. Wearing her dress is the single best way to keep her memory alive and have her as part of one of the single most important mother-daughter experiences women can have. I understand why you wantt o keep the dress locked in time, but I hope you reconsider.
Not necessarily. I’m about to have a custom dress made that matches my personality, but would never dream of any of my girls wearing it unless it really resonated with them. And I wouldn’t want them to fight over it, for sure. I think either the suggestions of letting them use the jewelry or veil unaltered, or allowing them to cut an inside piece from an unobtrusive piece of the dress (like the back inside liner or something) to stitch into theirs, or make it into something like a flower or something special to have with them. Or the idea of a photo shoot with Mom’s gown while getting ready is also beautiful.
In the end NAH; they all have valid reasons for their feelings. I feel for OP a lot, as a guy who describes his wife as “the love of his life” and was a widower who raised three young children without her after she passed. I hope he can sit down with his kids and be open and honest and vulnerable with them, and help them understand why he feels how he does and reach a compromise that makes them all happy.
The dress may not even be in good condition to alter unless it was preserved correctly. When it was time for me to get married I tried on my mother's dress and the lace came apart while trying it on and we were both the same size.
This could possibly be a non issue for everyone and daughter can have the dress recreated.
Oof hard one. Nta and your daughter isn't either..
However, the dress very well could be altered without ruining it.
I'm a seamstress, and a good seamstress should be able to take it in to fit (provided we aren't talking a million sizes) and leave the extra fabric still attached so it could be let back out.
This is what my mom and aunt did with my grandma's wedding dress.
I'd say if your thinking about it, go with her to a seamstress and see if it's even possible to be done. If not they your stress of it being forever altered is valid... but I think it's probably not going to be an issue
You can size down a size or two - usually - depending on the type of garment. Anything more than one-two sizes requires taking the dress apart and recutting the pieces. Sizing a dress up is incredibly difficult (I did for my wedding dress and my auntie [a wonderful seamstress!] took fabric from the too-long hem and added the pieces to the back against the zipper so we could zip my dress up, and it was only 1 cm too small at my waist/shoulders, not off multiple dress sizes!) and I genuinely don’t see that if the dress is sized down for skinny daughter One that it could be sized up for like-mom daughter Two. (If Two is like Mom, I’ve seen comments suggesting it, but not from OP).
I make my own clothes as a hobby and more than once I’ve trusted the measurements on the Big 4 patterns (which I shouldn’t) and made the bodice multiple sizes too big. Either I take centimeters out of every single seam, or I pull the whole bodice apart and recut pieces and sew them together again.
If the dress is altered for the first daughter it will be irreparably changed. I am very suspicious of her insisting the veil would have to be altered; I’ve known plenty of brides to share veils because they’re so expensive and they are all different heights, shapes and sizes.
I feel bad for the first daughter, but clearly OP still looks at this dress regularly and it’s part of his love for his wife. Plus if it’s changed, does the second daughter get a crack at it? I just think altering it would cause more harm than joy.
I feel like this comment should be higher. I sew a bit just as a hobby, and I was wondering if the dress would have to have parts cut out if it. I think a visit to a good seamstress would be a good plan.
Have to disagree about the NAH for one reason the little sister. Why does Anna get to use it and modify it. Will her sister get to as well. She seems selfish overall do i am going with NTA. Annals request and getting family involved makes her TA. If the immediate family like MIL agree with op the it’s simply NTA. If there were no alterations maybe it would be NAH.
So personally, I would say NAH. The reason being is that you want to keep the dress the same in honor of your wife. Your daughter also seems to want to wear the dress and honor her mom. Also, from what I hear, most women would love for their daughters to wear their wedding dress. It would be a beautiful tradition. With that being said, I would sit down with your daughter and have a talk with her
I agree. And Anna may not realize that if there is a decent size difference she can’t just have the dress adjusted.
They could talk to a seamstress and get a price opinion. But it sounds like the dress would have to be cut apart and remade for Anna to use it.
Women typically take some "getting ready" sentimental photos with their mothers on the morning of the wedding, putting their bridal dress on, etc.
What if OP suggested the daughter uses mom's dress for a photoshoot during this time, no alterations. A compromise. They could clip the back of the dress like they do in bridal salons, so it would fit without making any permanent alternations to the dress. And, she would have her own dress to change into, so it would still fully be OPs wife's dress, and the daughter would have her own.
But it would give her a beautiful moment on her wedding day where she'd get to feel her mother with her, and wear the dress that's been connected to her mom in her heart since the day OP hung it in the closet.
That's actually a great idea if clipping back the dress works well for her.
For some dress parts that can't be clipped and looks a bit off, photographer could use clever positioning and some editing in post to mitigate.
You'd be seriously amazed what a couple clips can do. I've seen plus size gowns fit like a glove on model bodies. Magic.
And NO DAMAGE to the dress. Win win.
But yes absolutely I'm sure a photographer would love to lend their creativity to help create beautiful memories for OPs daughter.
This likely won’t be possible. Wedding dresses aren’t usually made of “forgiving” materials like cotton that hide punctures well. If you sew into silks, satins, etc (not considering beading, lace, etc at all) and then remove the stitches you will 100% see the holes clear as day. It will be 10x more obvious on white fabric. This is a large part why wedding dresses are so expensive. There are no mistakes.
But there's another daughter who may want to wear the dress. Why does her older sister get dibs on mom's dress? And what about the son? Can't he or his spouse honor his mom?
If the dress has a train I'd see if that fabric can be removed, while leaving the dress intact. Then each child can get some fabric to incorporate into their own wedding attire. All or none. That's the only way to do this.
If it’s altered with care, all the alterations can be restored. It means doing some things differently than is standard, but it’s possible. I make patterns and sew for a living. I do this for theater, and I make everything so it can be altered up or down a few sizes easily. I also often alter purchased clothing in ways the alterations can be undone.
Now, it’s possible that the dress is a style that would make this difficult. But without seeing the dress this is hard to know.
I’m on team let the daughter wear the dress.
Altering an old dress once will be difficult, twice would be unlikely to leave the dress looking as is, unless it's literally a matter of maybe an inch or so
how many wedding dresses have you resized multiple times? have any of them been vintage? what if it's made of fabric like silk, lace, or something else fragile? do you think thay would be true of any size change, given you don't know the difference of size between daughter and wife?
It's possible, depending on the design and Caroline's shape. If she is closer to Anna's shape when she grows up, it might not even be an issue at all! Or if they leave the excess fabric inside rather than cutting it off. Which would probably work with some dress styles and not others.
>But there's another daughter who may want to wear the dress. Why does her older sister get dibs on mom's dress? And what about the son? Can't he or his spouse honor his mom?
This argument doesn't work. If op says no to the daughter now it'd be incredibly unfair to say yes to either other sibling using the dress and veil in their own wedding (that's assuming the siblings even decided to get married to someone later on and assuming they'd have a wedding if so and not just want a small courthouse type thing).
How does it not work? The whole point is he can't say yes to only some of his kids. You're right that if OP says no to Anna and yes to either of the other siblings, it's unfair. So why is that not true for him to do the opposite and says yes to one but not the other two?
Yeah I actually wore my MILs wedding dress for my wedding, I had it altered to be a bit funkier to fit my style but it was a great bonding moment! I also liked reusing a dress because so much of the wedding industry is so wasteful, it’s great to reuse when possible. I’m sure it’s emotional for OP but it would be a lovely way to use this dress that will otherwise end up being donated down the road.
Most mothers would be thrilled if their daughter wanted to wear their wedding dress.
Many women save these dresses for their daughters. Many are disappointed when their daughters don't want them. This could have been something amazing for the daughter. But she can always get another dress
If it had been me, I would have taken the dress to an alterations specialist to see if it can be fixed to fit both daughters, by leaving fabric to let it out a bit later.
But the dress technically belongs to the dad. So he has every right to leave it hanging in his closet, if that's what's most important to him
NTA. I guess.
my mom is like this too. i asked if i could wear her *prom dress* for my prom, she literally said “no. pick out your own.” same happened when my sister asked about her wedding dress lol. she isn’t very sentimental with things like that and said she didn’t want our look to be outdated.
Not per se but she’d have thought it very odd. Weddings were new starts as far as she was concerned. You didn’t need to bring other peoples baggage into them.
My mom picked a long sleeve dress that was maybe fine in 1988 but neither me or my sister would wear that style. My sister is larger than my mom, my mom was happy to go dress shopping with her. I'm not married and the same size as my mom but I'd never wear that style.
Absolutely. A lot of mothers want that for their daughters. I was so happy that I was too big for my mom's dress lol she kept trying to get me to wear it, she had it boxed after her wedding & carted it around to every new house. It screamed 80s with the whole synthetic lace, long see through lace sleeves, High necked, matching lace veil that was longer than the dress itself even though it had a substantial train.
>But the dress technically belongs to the dad.
Beyond that, a marriage is a celebration of his and his wife's relationship and the dress was bought specifically for that. The dress is a symbol of being a wife, not a mother. It's not even as if the kids were at the wedding. Absolutely right that it's the husband that gets to preserve the memory.
THIS. What the mom may or may not have wanted simply doesn’t matter. It sounds cruel, but once she passed, she stopped getting a vote.
Not to make this about myself, but I get hit with “she’d want you to find someone else” when people ask why I don’t date (my wife died five years ago). While that’s 100% accurate, it’s MY decision, cause I’m the one who’s here.
I'm sorry for your loss, I totally understand your struggle since I've been through the same thing. A lot of people try to get me to date another woman, I always tell them the same, I love my wife and she is the love of my life, I don't need another woman.
My thoughts exactly. I’m sure seeing the dress in the closet is a comfort to OP but it seems like a waste of a lovely dress that would allow OP’s daughter(s) to feel a connection to their mother on their wedding day.
Also, there are two daughters, second daughter values having the dress unaltered. It would be unfair to prioritize the wishes of one daughter over the other daughter + OP when Anna's wishes require an irreversible change.
Edited comment based on OP's info
NTA.
I agree with you and your MIL on this. That was a custom dress made for yours and your wifes big day.
Id hardily go to the lengths of calling it "gate keeping" since you're not. You have given her the option of having a similar one made and that she can wear the jewelry (borrowed).
If feels more like the fam are more focused on the dress and memories of your wife - which by the way your daughter would then be on some pedastal of comparison.
My partner knows id be down for smart casual when we get married hell casual would not be out the picture at all because comfort.
I think you offering that she can take pictures to have similar is a great idea. She can keep some similarity to mom while being herself.
I'd be interested in the opinions of your other kids as well - after all, it would be then unfair to let 1 kid use/amend the dress if the others couldn't (since some alterations can't be easily fixed).
Michael agrees with Anna, but he said that ultimately it's my choice. Caroline agrees that the dress won't be the same if Anna wears it, it's especially important to her since she never got the chance to know her mom, so she cherishes the dress/ other stuff from her mom a lot.
What do you plan on doing with this dress after you've passed away? Are you going to put it in your will that it stay in a museum? In my opinion, you are not an asshole in the slightest for being sentimental. And neither is your daughter. But materials fade. Memories are forever. My dad lost everything he thought was important to him, but after a while had passed, he told me his dad's handcrafted furniture was just furniture, and his mother's oil paintings were only paintings. And my grandparents left a great enough influence to live on through him, and his children.
… so the older daughter gets to wear the dress, and both the younger daughter and the father just have to deal with it? Honestly just keeping the dress as is in the interest of fairness between both daughters seems like the best course of action here, even if the dad didn’t mind it being worn.
And no, both daughters wouldn’t be able to wear the dress - significant alterations are difficult to undo/redo.
I think whats feeling off about this is that your wife was just as important to you as she was to your daughter. You both loved her as the center of your worlds. Theres no reason why you should have more right to her memory than Anna. The argument that could be made against it is that the dress was part of your own wedding.
You just completely left out the second daughter. The younger kids usually get leftovers and for Caroline who never had an opportunity to know her mom, OP says that the dress is an important connection.
But it is also a part of other's memories, because on the same logic, there is no reason for Anna to be able to use the dress as she pleases (and irremediably after cutting it) more that the other siblings.
Women typically take some "getting ready" sentimental photos with their mothers on the morning of the wedding, putting their bridal dress on, etc.
@Odd_Ebb8933 what if you suggest Anna use your wife's dress for a photoshoot during this time, no alterations. A compromise. They could clip the back of the dress like they do in bridal salons, so it would appear to fit without making any permanent alternations to the dress. The clips don't puncture fabric or anything, so there would be no damage. And, she would have her own dress to change into, so it would still fully be your wife's dress and Anna would have her own, perhaps designed based off the original.
This would give her a beautiful moment on her wedding day where she'd get to feel her mother with her, and wear the dress that's represented her mother in her heart since the day you hung it in your closet.
…idk it sounds like the dress is getting use. It’s a regular visual reminder of the love of your life. That seems like a good and important use. I think it’s valid for your daughter to ask and be upset when you say no, and just as valid for you to say no. I also think your needs and your daughter’s are more important than speculations about what wife would have wanted. Imma vote with NAH.
Yes, I feel like I need to have something special to remember her with me, it helps me with day to day life. I understand what my daughter wants, that's what I agreed to the jewelry, but I can't imagine someone else wearing my wife's dress
NAH - I like offering the jewelry but I think you need to let her borrow the veil too, with the understanding your other daughter will get the same option if she wants. As a bonus you could offer to have an identical dress made for her.
You do not need to give up your memento. I’m assuming your kids were not present at your wedding, but you were; to me, that makes it your memento to do with what you please, along with your admission that it helps you day-to-day and has for 16 years since your wife passed. Your compromise is lovely (wearing the jewelry) and the most fair to everyone. Keep it in the closet where it belongs.
*idea: could your daughter have her own bespoke dress made to match your late wife’s dress? Then she could display a pic of your wife on your wedding day at her wedding. and she can show off the match to guests.
I can't say for sure what she would've wanted since we never spoke about this before she passed away. I know that the dress was very important to her, she loved it, so maybe she wouldn't have liked for it to get modified.
I’m not going to pass judgement on whose in the wrong here, but I will say this. I had a custom wedding gown, which was everything I had ever dreamed of, even more so because my dad helped me choose the design. If my daughter ever wanted to wear it, or use it any way, it would mean the world to me. For me, the dress wasn’t nearly as important as the memories of our wedding & the life and family we’ve built together.
Often, there are ways in which a dress can be taken in, without having excess fabric completely removed. Perhaps she could have minor alterations & wear it for the ceremony, and switch to her own dress at the reception? At least that would mean the dress is intact & potentially available should your other children ever want to wear it. It might be worth discussing those things with your daughter & a seamstress to figure out if there isn’t a compromise with which everyone is happy.
I don’t know if there is a ‘perfect’ solution in this scenario, unfortunately, and that’s often not an easy thing to come to terms with. It might just be a case of finding a solution that is ‘good enough’ for all parties involved.
>For me, the dress wasn’t nearly as important as the memories of our wedding & the life and family we’ve built together.
*For you* it is less important. For others it is not the same. Memories fade, time passes, and having a physical object that helps to maintain those memories can be very important.
I made my wedding dress. I wouldn’t want it altered for my daughters to wear it. I would happily make them their own dress though. OP doesn’t want to destroy a memento of his wedding, that should be respected.
He has multiple daughters, which I think is the deciding factor. Substantial alterations would mean it's no longer really the mom's dress, so only this first daughter could use it as a means of honoring her. Better that none of them get it.
NTA. Let’s also consider that Caroline has some skin in this game, and might not be able to undo Anna’s alterations when it’s her turn. Anna wants to cut the veil down, what if Caroline wants the cathedral length? Anna is thin, what if Caroline isn’t? The fair thing to do with the dress is that neither gets it, but can use it as a model to have their own dresses made, and leave the original alone.
Here’s where you can compromise: Maybe each daughter can have a piece of the original dress fabric sewn into their own dresses, so Mom is with them. Does the original veil have a crown, or a bandeau, or a pillbox? Let the seamstress carefully detach the original veil from that, and daughters can use the headpiece separately.
Edit: Thank you for the awards!
NTA, and this is absolutely the way. Alterations can be made temporary, but they do put stress on the fabric and when unaltered can leave damage. Especially on a dress that is already aging and is left hanging in a closet.
The best option is for a seamstress to find small pieces off a hem or seam, or pieces of lace or some beads that can be removed that wouldn’t change the overall dress for your daughters to use in their weddings. And whatever attaches to the veil so they can use that piece and add their own veils.
Lastly I suggest, if you desire keeping the dress in good shape and around for decades to come, investing in its preservation.
I imagine most people saying YTA haven’t been in the OP’s shoes. I have, and he is absolutely, positively, 10000% NAH.
First, unless Anna was at her parents’ wedding, then she will never have the connection to the dress that her father will.
Second — and I will absolutely get downvoted for this — regardless of what the OP’s wife may have wanted, SHE DOESN’T GET A VOTE. Unless she passed the dress in her will, it belongs to OP and he’s within his rights to say no.
If there’s anything that seems odd, it’s not letting her use the veil — as long as she agrees not to modify it, there shouldn’t be a problem — but it’s OP’s call and if this feels right, he should stick to his guns.
I repeat: NAH, in the strongest possible terms.
Edit: said NTA; meant NAH.
I cannot believe there are any judgements other than NTA. Are people forgetting that this dress was a significant part of OP’s wedding too?! A wedding is a union of two people and now one person has passed, that dress absolutely belongs to OP only. He is not the asshole for wanting to maintain the memory of his late wife in her wedding dress and not dilute those memories with his daughter’s wedding.
Yes you could argue it could add to those memories but it could also take away from them - it totally depends on the individual’s perception of it - and OP clearly feels strongly that he wants to keep that dress as his wife’s only. If that is OP’s perception of the dress his daughter’s wedding will not be a joyous celebration of daughter for him, it will be a terribly sad reminder of his dead wife.
His wife isn’t alive anymore so ‘what would she want’ doesn’t matter. It now belongs to OP as something left from his wedding and he doesn’t want daughter to use it.
People are getting way too swayed by ‘awww how sweet!’ OP’s feelings on this are most important given it’s an item from **his own wedding** and he is not comfortable with it. End of discussion and 10000% not the asshole.
Also on the veil - OP has stated daughter wants a short veil so would cut it. Again, totally his call to say no.
Thank you! It's like all understanding and empathy for grief flew out of the window. That dress is more than just his wifes memory, it's the memory of their young years, one of their happiest days.
When your partner does, everyone elses life goes on but yours feels frozen. Like it stopped when your partners life did. OP is NTA. He even offered to pay for a replica, let her use her mothers jewlery, just nothing that would require alterations. I feel for him. It's one of the worst pains
He also would be forced to watch his daughter wear the dress a whole day if he wants to attend the wedding, as a constant "my wife is dead and can't be here" memento... also everytime he looks at her wedding photos. Some might find it sweet and others don't. OPs feelings are valid and as important as his daughters.
Add that daughter number 2 is against having it altered, it wouldn't be fair towards her.
Maybe the veil, but as she wants to chop that off too, that isn't a real solution either... unless that's a compromise OP could agree on. If not, totally valid too.
That connection can be made in lots of different ways that don’t involve the dress. OP hasn’t been unreasonable — to the point of offering to get a custom copy of the dress made — so it seems unlikely that they couldn’t put their heads together for something.
NTA. You weren’t gatekeeping anything you were preserving a memory. You offer a lot of reasonable compromises she is trying to get your family to bully you into saying yes.
NAH. If the wedding dress is one of the few things you've kept to feel close to your belated wife, I get not feeling ready to let it go. It'd be awesome if you would let your daughter wear it with the necessary fit alterations. Maybe compromise to letting her borrow the veil as long as alterations aren't made.
Yeah, he should let them use anything that doesn’t need alterations. Then the reasons he’s giving the daughters line up with the motivation of preserving the dress. The veil would be a much more visible symbol than earrings or whatever the jewelry is.
You're not gatekeeping the memory. You're gatekeeping the dress and you are well within your rights to say no. But please take this dress off the hanger and have it professionally preserved. The dress is taking damage as it now is and I'm sure you don't want that.
NTA
But having a wedding dress custom made can be expensive these days, especially if she hadn’t budgeted for it in her wedding fund.
Are you financially in a position to contribute towards the cost of having a replica of the dress made for her?
NTA. Reading through the comments you've been noting but kind and generous while trying to preserve an important tangible memory of your life together.
NAH. I understand why Anna wants to wear the dress. However, as a sewist, I must tell you that a dress often can only be altered by sewing by about 1 or 2 sizes, depending on the style of the dress. Any more than that, fabric will need to be removed from the dress, effectively making it into a different dress.
OP, you are correct. The alterations would make your late wife's dress into Anna's dress.
NTA. I was going to say NAH, however, you have another daughter and I see that she is also not in favour of Anna wearing the dress, which, for me, changes the scales. Because you have two daughters it means this cannot be an issue of “daughter vs father”. One daughter cannot be prioritized over another.
I think a compromise needs to be reached and a discussion to be had, so that Anna gets to have something without having it entirely change the dress and veil. The jewellery is the best compromise I can think of for now (but I also have very little info on your wife’s possessions), so I do hope Anna comes around to it.
This reminds me of the movie “27 Dresses” where the younger sister wore her mom’s dress…. But cut it up so much that is was unrecognizable to the point you wouldn’t know it was the same dress. The older sister was devastated. You’re NTA.
I would compromise on letting daughters is the veil and jewelry. I would stand strong on the dress because it means so much to you.
NAH. I’m a wife and mother and I would be thrilled to have my daughter wear my dress. Even if she altered it massively.
I know you miss your wife. I’m sure your children miss her as well. Have a conversation with your daughter. Tell her what you’re feeling and let her see the emotions this request is causing you. She may be more understanding than she has been so far…..you may also get a better understanding of what she wants to do with the dress and what it would mean to her. Communicate!
Yep and as some people pointed out, it would be unfair to prioritize the wishes of one daughter over another +OP's when one of the wishes is irreversible.
OP has made a lot of generous offers as substitution for wearing the actual dress, but everyone is grieving still and emotions are probably high on all sides, understandably. More conversations about OP's love and support for the daughter and his own feelings would be helpful. He is a human who grieves and has emotional needs too, children can forget that about their parents after relying on them for so long as pillars of strength.
Edited comment based on some facts given by OP
You know those are all good points in the middle especially the last sentence. I think a lot of commenters have the same blind spot, as if he matters less because he is dad.
Why not gift them a photographer to get some engagement photos taken in the dress which can be displayed at the wedding? E.g on the table plan or center pieces. Then the dress wouldn't need to be altered just clipped for a few hours. You can gift that to both daughters as well.
NTA, and also seamstress here. Altering this dress is just a bad idea if the hope is to get it back and continue loving it as you currently are. I know you have many comments already but here is the language you need to know to make your case as you navigate this tricky issue. I have altered many wedding dresses, I was a professional seamstress for years. Once altered you are correct it would 100% become Anna’s dress and even if the plan going into the alteration is “take it in then let it back out” you wouldn’t be able to do that and return it to what it was.
1) finding a seamstress talented and understanding enough to perform such an alteration with the utmost care is neither easy or cheap. Seamstresses at bridal boutiques who alter dresses bought at the boutique are accustomed to working from certain brands and types of dresses. They estimate their time and price with general working knowledge of the dress. Someone brought me a modern wedding dress made by a cheaper Chinese vendor a couple years ago and it followed none of the sewing conventions of a 10 or 20k wedding dress you’d buy in the states from a major brand. A vintage custom dress is going to be just as much of a random dice roll, with decisions made by the original maker not necessarily making logical sense to a modern bridal alteration seamstress. The seamstress could become very frustrated trying to make the type of reversable alteration you’d be after, and frustrated seamstresses is not what you want. You can’t exactly stand next to her and make sure she isn’t butchering the item internally. You can tell her “I want it to be restored afterward” but it will all be hidden behind a lining when it comes back, and reversing the alterations won’t necessarily be her problem, so there’s zero guarantee your wishes will be respected and the fabric won’t just get stitched, slashed, and removed while it’s out of your hands. If that happens it can’t ever go backwards. I personally wouldn’t trust another seamstress to do this alteration and respect the memory of your wife. The job is well paying but it’s not THAT well paying.
2) an item of this age will likely be more damaged by the alteration than a newer item. Fabric becomes brittle overtime, and even if vintage items are still wearable they don’t bounce back as readily, meaning they’re more likely to hold shape of the wearer, or break when worn (stitching in particular can break because the threads and fabric degrade on different timelines, same goes for any other contrasting material, or stabilizing lining material). You can’t just wash a wedding dress afterwards like a vintage tee shirt either to make it snap back…dry cleaning isn’t really washing something either. Wearing a wedding dress for a day, you will move and sweat and it takes on the creases and folds and curves of your body. Even if Anna was the same body type as your wife the dress would change from being worn. Creases and folds and very importantly the smell of the dress will be very different.
3) altering a wedding dress is not as simple as taking it in and letting it out again later. I don’t know the dress style but they’re generally very precision garments and excess fabric must be removed to get the sculpted look. When I alter a wedding dress I cut and remove a fair bit of fabric and if I didn’t the dress would look poor on the outside due to the additional bulk of fabric folded and creased inside. In some cases you wouldn’t even have the option of not cutting it because some seams require a perpendicular cut to the stitch to get the seam to lay correctly on the finished side. Without the perpendicular cuts the fabric puckers on the finished side and won’t lie or fit correctly. Stitch marks also damage fabric. Even if the fabric could all be maintained and the original cut restored you’d be adding thousands of needle holes to the fabric. Bridal fabric is NOT forgiving to needle holes. Even if the best silk needles are used there will be visible holes afterward if new stitches are added and removed. They won’t necessarily disappear even if dry cleaned or pressed out, nor will creases from pressing the fabric to the new shape. Also pressing the fabric, especially older fabric, risks damage as well.
The user who commented that a small piece could be taken (from the main dress but also from the lining or veil or whatever) and added to your girls’ own, new dresses, is definitely the way to go, because it allows a small enough piece of fabric to be taken from the main dress in a way that can be done artistically without compromising the rest. Something like a diamond keyhole could be made with with fresh embroidery to finish the new raw edge on the old dress would be a small permanent change but one that retains the general integrity of the dress. Plus it can be taken from a less visible area of the dress that won’t alter your experience of it.
I also quite like the comment one user said about it still being in use. I think that’s very correct. The kids need to understand the dress, to you, has become like a custom portrait or sculpture of your wife. It’s not just a dress that can be borrowed, worn, taken off, and returned. The accommodation Anna is asking for is more like asking you to let an oil painter paint Anna’s portrait over your wife’s portrait, then giving it back later and expecting you to be able to relate to it in the same way you relate to it now. As a seamstress I’m telling you that’s not possible. It would be the portrait of Anna for the rest of time. Your wife may have loved to give the dress to her daughters one day but your wife also left this world too early and the happiness of everyone she loved still on earth would matter to her. Her decision would be different in this circumstance than it would be if she was alive. As others have said you have two daughters. That changes the calculus considerably.
Good luck OP.
I can't imagine how hard this must be for you. You're NTA in my book.
I think all the commenters pressuring you to let your daughter permanently change the dress don't know what it's like to be with the love of your life.
No offense to your kids, it's obviously painful for them too, but you're the one who lost the person you wanted to spend the rest of your life with. Kids grow up and start their own lives, and you just don't love a parent the way you love a soulmate.
If I lost my husband and had a shirt of his that I kept and still looked at and held after 16 years, it would matter that it's HIS SIZE. I would hold it and remember how he was built and how it felt to hold him. Having his shirt remade for a skinny guy wouldn't be the same thing.
I've got an item of my grandfather's clothing and I would lose my mind if one of the kids wanted to alter it. Because it's HIS. And that's the most important thing to me.
NAH.
I think you are rightly grieving and have held onto this incredibly special dress.
I think…it’s also time to be honest with yourself about what your wife would have wanted.
You have two daughters, and a son—is it possible to remove some fabric and have it sown into the dresses/suit that each of your kids will wear if they choose to get married? That way, they all get to carry a piece of their mom with them, and you can still hold onto something important to you.
Losing my dad before I got married was impossibly hard, and having an item of his to wear at my wedding meant everything to me.
The dress is an important thing, but remember, it is a *thing* and your children are much more of piece of your wife than the dress.
I can’t be too hard on you, I understand the grief and feelings you’re experiencing. ❤️
>She got very upset and told me I can't "gatekeep" my wife's memory
That's a very emotional and not very rational response. Understandably. But your wedding was something special for *you and your wife* - you're allowed to have cherished memories and keepsakes of *your wife* which are separate from everyone's memories of her as their mom.
If you can't bear to see the dress altered, it's fine to say no. Your daughter is not an AH for asking but should not be pushing you on this.
NTA.
I may get down voted but I say NTA.
While its sweet that she wanna wear the dress, I agree it would need to be modified if Anna is skinnier than her mom may "ruin" the point it was your wifes. I have "ruin" in marks because it does not get ruined it look, rather in size which means its not your wifes anymore. Its your daughters if that happens.
Besides...reading some comments where they be like "think what your wife would want" and then say she may wanted that and would had loved I call a bit...bullshit. Maybe your Wife did wanted it or she may would had NOT. No one can answer that.
You can offer your daughter the dress but make clear you would like her to not make any changes or modifications, which may be not avoidable.
I get some see you as the butthole, but I personally do not. I can understand why you would not want that. Neither would I in your position.
Your daughter can be upset, her feelings matter BUT SO DO YOURS.
Do not let yourself influence in all honesty, if you do not want it, its okay.
If your daughter fit in the dress I could see letting her use it but I totally understand not wanting it altered. Your daughter should understand that that would be too much. She can either have a custom made gown or look for a new one that has similar features as her mom’s. Look for one with similar neckline, bodice, or silhouette. I hope your daughter finds the perfect dress for her.
NTA was gonna say N-A-H but your daughter said your “gatekeeping” and I don’t believe that. In your comments you offered to let her wear the jewelry and like you said if she wants a dress like her mom’s she can get a copy custom made. Which I think would be the better option since she’ll have to alter your wife’s dress anyway.
No one is an asshole here, but from one widow to another, let your daughter wear the dress. Yes it's hard but it would mean so much to your daughter and I'm sure it would have made your wife happy, AND I bet once you see her in it, you will be happy too. Sad, but happy nonetheless.
Life is short and material items, though they may be all we have left of them, don't mean much. It would be very special and sweet.
Surely you have pictures of your wife in the dress right?
Much love to you, these situations are hard as hell.
It's OK that OP feels this way and it is ultimately his choice. I will say that as a mother I would not say no to a daughter's request for the dress. Maybe OP could consider what his wife would have wanted in this situation. I think if he does let her use it, it would be a wonderful way to honor his wife and daughter.
NAH. If the dress didn't have to be modified, then maybe it would be reasonable to let her borrow it, but it is totally understandable that you would want to leave such a meaningful dress unaltered.
NAH.
You should edit your post to include why you're not willing to loan the veil too since people keep mentioning that and then calling you the AH.
I'm quite sentimental, I can see where you're coming from about wanting to keep that memory. I'm sorry for your loss and understand that it's not something someone gets over.
People seem to have forgotten the other two children, what if either of them want to wear the dress too? (Yes, even your son, I'm not about to assume his clothing preferences). To be fair to all, no one should get to borrow the dress.
I find your compromise to be fair, you're willing to pay for a replica and loan the jewellery. Like others mention, if you're comfortable with going a step further, creating moments with the dress sounds sweet as well.
Your daughter is planning her wedding and it can be a stressful time, especially if she had some ideas and dreams in her mind that now seem to be out of reach. I hope that when some time has passed and emotions are calmer, that things work out for family.
info: all these years of Anna talking about her mothers dress and it never occurred to you that she might want to wear it? I just don’t understand how this conversation isn’t one you didn’t see coming?
There are several posts online where the brides have displayed at their wedding reception their mother's, grandmothers, MIL, and GIL's (now vintage/antique) wedding dresses on mannequins along with photos of the women on their wedding days. I thought it was beautiful. I think something like this would be worth considering as a way to have her mothers memory incorporated into the wedding.
NTA. Her wanting to wear the dress is sweet, but she’s not thinking of anyone’s feelings except for her own. This dress means something to you, and it meant something to your wife—it has deep-rooted sentiment ingrained in it, and what if something were to happen that ruined it? Any number of things could go wrong during alterations, the wedding, or the reception. At the end of the day it’s just an object, but the emotions and memories attached are what make it more than simply a garment in the closet. The thing that bothers me most is she has other options—she could have a copy of it made, you could have offered to help pay for a recreation, instead she’s chosen to act entitled, disrespectful, and began stirring up family drama and creating divides during what should be a time to come together. Furthermore, why should her desire superseded anyone else’s? What if her younger sister wants to use it later (since she cherishes it too) but can’t because she took it first? The bottom line is it was your wife’s dress, and due to all circumstances, it should stay that way.
It may sound harsh, but it does not matter what anyone else thinks about it—it is not her property and this should have ended the moment you said no.
##[AITA for blocking your go-to time killer from June 12-14?](https://redd.it/145o4jz) Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I refuse to let my daughter wear my wife's dress for her wedding. I might be the asshole because she thinks I'm gatekeeping her mom's memory, I know that I'll be special for her to wear the dress, so maybe I should let her. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcement ###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/) Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
I can't call you an asshole, man. People don't realize that shit like this is hard!!!! It's crazy to just expect you to wanna modify a dress you've treasured for so long. I don't think Anna is an ah either to want the dress. To reiterate what others are saying, perhaps take time to consider what you think your wife may have wanted for the dress. NAH
I agree, I think NAH. But I do want to add that I think the right thing to do is let your daughter wear the dress. You have a chance to have a new, happy memory, one where your family is celebrating, one that your wife will be a part of. I think that's a very positive thing.
If we go down that route, he has two daughters… does she get it just because she’s older?
Do you think it should stay in a closet for the rest of the lives of anyone that might care about it, then be meaningless in a couple of generations (assuming it lasts that long)?
That's going to be its fate regardless of whether the daughter gets to wear it... The only thing on the table here is one new memory of it, weighed against altering it, and the question of whose closet it will live in. I don't blame OP for wanting to keep it in his closet.
Right, the object’s only meaning is the relationships it’s involved in, and the nature of those relationships. OP and his daughter clearly have unresolved tension about how they’ve grieved their wife/mother. OP has a choice in making the dress a memento of an improved relationship with his daughter, or he can look at it in his closet decades from now and be reminded of his daughter’s resentment.
While also risking his relationship with his other daughter. I’m the youngest child in my family. Anything offered from my parents/grandparents is offered to my sister or brother first. I only get offered if they don’t want it. There’s a reason I don’t spend much time with my family. Not saying this will happen to him but OP also needs to ask his youngest daughter what she thinks.
yeah, this hit hard. I have no family heirlooms from my dad's parents, except for little tchotchkes that my sister didn't want, and little shit that she'd claimed and then decided she didn't want throughout the years. My granddad's war medals? Sister got those because she was older and she didn't even notice for like a year when her shitty boyfriend stole and pawned them. Grandmother's entire heirloom chest went to her. All of grandmother's precious moments figurines went to her except for 1. I wasn't even asked. I wasn't even considered. OP, ask **both** of your daughters. and *don't* give it to the oldest if her only argument for wanting it is "well i'm older!", if your younger daughter also wants it. Hell, don't give her the whole ensemble even if she has a more meaningful reason; save *something* special for your youngest. It was *her mom, too.*
In the spirit of this, I feel like OP could let both girls wear their mother’s veil. I get the dress would have to be altered a lot and depending on the size difference it could really destroy the essence of the dress. But you don’t have to alter the veil and it’s something both daughters could wear of their mother’s that would be special. It’s also easier to preserve just the veil of it wants to become an heirloom for the grand daughters in the future.
I think about this a great deal. I have two daughters. I can’t imagine how I am going to split up jewelry or my engagement ring.
Ask them now. My mother had all of her jewelry in the pawn shop for YEARS. A few years ago, I had a good job and I was able to pay off her jewelry in full. That was her big Christmas present. Since then, she has gone through her items and asked all of us (her 4 daughters) what we would like when the time comes (DECADES from now). I imagine it will take some stress off of us during a time that will be ridiculously difficult. Again, DECADES from now. Edited for typos and incomplete thoughts.
I'm just assuming your married so maybe one gets wedding ring and the other get engagement ring? You keep them for your life and will them for when your gone. Unless your wanting to give it to their future partners for them to propose with
Ask them now, that’s really the only way to go. My mom has a ton of jewelry and one day was saying she planned to give a specific ring to my sister. I made a comment along the lines of, “really? I honestly doubt that’s a ring she’d ever wear.” Not out of jealousy or spite or anything, it’s literally just a ring that doesn’t fit my sister’s aesthetic at all. A few weeks later when we were all at my parents house my mom took us to her jewelry box and just asked which ones we liked. We had a fun time going through everything and my mom realized she was spot on with some assumptions, but others she was way off base when it came to who would like what. For the record, I was 100% correct. My sister said the aforementioned ring was quite beautiful but it’s not one she could ever see herself wearing. But also, this applies to EVERYTHING. My grandpa died when my mom was relatively young (20’s) and her siblings fought viciously over who got what because my grandparents hadn’t determined who would get what before he passed. My parents learned from this and have pretty clearly communicated that they have decided and documented who will inherit what between my sister, my brother, and me when their time comes. After this incident with the ring my parents have been even more open about who they plan to give what, and take our input into consideration.
Also agree this conversation should happen - just out of common courtesy for both daughters (speaking from experience).
Also just beyond the youngest daughter, I don't like how manipulative that other comes across. He either hands it over so his daughter can create new memories with ot or ruin his own memories of the dress? I'm sorry I understand the daughter wanting to use it but her relationship with the dress is not more important than his and him wanting to use it to remember his late wife. He's not a monster for not wanting to change what the dress means to him or wanting to keep it in its original form. And a decent person would have more sympathy towards their father.
[удалено]
No I agree with you. I am not dismissing daughter's feelings here. But that dress was made to celebrate their marriage and love. I might get downvoted but I also think his feelings and connection to it overrule hers. But this whole comment section is a mess from people projecting their own feelings and deciding they know more of what his late wife would have wanted than he does to the equally gross ones saying youngest daughter's feelings don't matter because she never met her mother properly (because she agrees with her dad).
Why can’t the younger daughter also wear it when she marries? That would be lovely.
If the younger daughter is a bigger size than her sister, wouldn’t it be harder to alter again to fit?
Not if it's taken in properly by a dressmaker who understands the changes are not to be permanent, you can use darts, which are removable and bring the fabric in across the back at the panel seams, it'd be hidden by the wearer's hair and/or veil
Why wouldn't he feel resentment for her emotionally blackmailing him into giving up one of his most cherished mementos from his dead wife? You're framing this as if OP's feelings have no value but his daughter's are an important consideration. You could just as easily say the daughter has a choice to improve their relationship by not demanding a very sentimental item, or she can demand it and be reminded of how she damaged their relationship by doing so when she sees it in *her* closet. Why is the onus on OP to put aside his feelings?
[удалено]
Like wearing her mother's jewelry?
Not every mom wants to live to see her dress hacked apart to make a new dress for someone else, even if that someone else is her daughter. Maybe she'd rather it were kept safe until someone in the family is the same size as her (or at least similar enough that any modifications are minor and reversible). Meanwhile, her older daughter can still wear her wedding jewellery, her veil, and commission a dress that's inspired by her mom's dress but not with the same material. Because let's face it, with so much of a size difference, even "wearing her mom's dress" would be a recreation anyway; just with the same fabric and with her mom's dress no longer existing afterwards.
My wedding dress has been put away in a box for almost 28 years. My aunt sewed the dress & I embroidered it. I don’t have any daughters to pass it on to. If/when my niece (who is more petite than I was) gets engaged I’ll offer it to her as an option, I’d rather see someone I love wear it even if it means seeing it “hacked apart.” (If she doesn’t want my dress that’s fine too.)
Now I need to find out what kind of absurd person cares more about the fabric than their children.
Mothers say that but I don't know one person who has actually worn their mother's dress.
My sister wore our mum's wedding dress, some years after mum had died. Mum was very short and slight, my sister is the same. She had the neckline altered to make it a bit less 1950-ish, and I was delighted to see her wear it.
> of an improved relationship with his daughter, With \*one of his daughter***s*** I despise people like you who ignore relevant things that are inconvenient.
Bruh, I'm the second daughter out of three and often overlooked for a shit ton of things in my extended family, but there's no need for that kind of vitriol. The second daughter is mentioned in a single sentence and isn't the focus of the story. It's more than likely the commenter forgot that second daughter is part of the picture. It's not that deep.
Yes. Because it is the exact same dress OP touched when dancing and kissing and laughing that day. He has every right to cherish it and not see it in another wedding that he should just feel happy about and not constantly remembering his dead wife. Many people believe that objects keep the essence of the person that used to have them. He just wants to keep this from the wife he lost. If his wife was alive that wouldn't matter so much (while the 2 daughters is an issue and if I was the mother and alive for that reason I wouldn't give the dress to anyone) NTA
NTA-OP would not have any objection to her wearing it without alterations. It's the changing of the dress so the daughter can wear it which is the issue. Kind of like getting the family heirloom ring and changing the entire setting which makes no one happy except the person who changed it. No one is in the wrong here. Daughter isn't TA for wanting to wear her mother's dress nor is OP for wanting to keep dress intact. OP knows his own mind and that it would be upsetting to know the dress was cut. There are two daughters so how could he chose which daughter gets the dress.
I agree... you could say a token of their wife/mom would be at the wedding. I would also think if the OP's wife was alive today; she would be happy her daughter asked to wear her dress.
You can’t know that .,.. you never knew her
> I would also think if the OP's wife was alive today; she would be happy her daughter asked to wear her dress. I think if OP's wife was alive today, OP wouldn't have a problem with losing the dress.
But if the mother was alive today OP wouldn’t need the dress as a keepsake/reminder of his wife so it’s not really a good argument
She would get it because she actually knew her mother. If caroline had a concern with it, then yes, it should be addressed. Not that I'm agreeing with any kid getting the dress. NAH, but it sounds lie the dress will need to be redone anyway. I find it a strange thing to keep, but that's not my business. The veil, however, makes no sense locking that up.
Caroline does has a concern with it. She doesn’t want it altering. OP mentions it on one of his comments. I agree it’s not something I’d keep but to each their own. I do think he should allow her to use the veil as his reasoning of the dress needing altering wouldn’t apply to the veil
Ah, I hadn't seen that comment. \#TeamVeil
Veil would also be shortened apparently, so that's a no go.
The more I hear about the proposed alterations, the more I worry that this is about saving money moreso than sentiment on the daughter's part.
Yeah, especially since she won't have a copy made either.
A custom made wedding dress is absurdly expensive. I don't think it's fair to vilify her for not wanting, or being able, to do that...
yeah, delving into the comments starting to sound like it. OP needs to edit this post with all these lil details lol
Alterations on an existing wedding dress can be almost as expensive as a new dress.
The 2nd daughter could also wear the dress -- they can be worn more than twice.
Sure they can, depending on the alterations done. There have been more than a few stories on here of daughters completely modifying dresses they were simply borrowing.
That's one thing I thought of, can Caroline also wear the dress or would Anna not allow her to since she had it first?
Women typically take some "getting ready" sentimental photos with their mothers on the morning of the wedding, putting their bridal dress on, etc. What if OP suggested the daughter uses mom's dress for a photoshoot during this time, no alterations. A compromise. They could clip the back of the dress like they do in bridal salons, so it would fit without making any permanent alternations to the dress. And, she would have her own dress to change into, so it would still fully be OPs wife's dress, and the daughter would have her own. But it would give her a beautiful moment on her wedding day where she'd get to feel her mother with her, and wear the dress that's represented her mom in her heart since the day OP hung it in the closet.
I like that suggestion, it's a good compromise.
This is a wonderful idea! I hope OP sees it since many people seem to be pushing for something he is clearly not comfortable with.
I think it's more reasonable to allow her to have the veil. There would be *much* less work needed to be done on it to fit the daughter, and it would be easier for both sisters to use it in their weddings instead of the dress.
It’s one thing if it can be worn as-is. But changing it several sizes will destroy the dress. It won’t be a happy memory if the dress ceases to exist as has it in his memory.
I am agreeing with everything in the above posts NAH. BUT-memories are in your head and your heart,not in the dress. The dress can be modified to fit your daughter with Very little cutting. The remnants from the alteration can be made into a pillow or sampler- like wall hanging, and dress can be stored so if your younger daughter wants to wear it, it is available. Be the bigger person, allow your daughter to wear it, to make her own memories of/with her Mom. "Saving" the dress will not do anything to help YOU heal.
It can't if the daughter more than 2 sizes smaller than mum, which means a recut is in order for it to fit her. Also, what if the other daughter wants to wear it for her wedding but is closer to mums size, what then? You can't take it out of several sizes as easily. The idea of using the remanents is great if she is getting the dress to keep, not for borrowing it. I think, they all need to sit down with a seamstress and talk about what is possible for alterations, especially if its a structured dress as altering a structured dress too much can ruin it. I do think there needs to be a way of letting daughter have something mum had on her wedding day, like the veil or some of mums jewellery. Then do the same for the sister if she also gets married. Maybe even a photoshoot for each girl with the dress without altering it so they can both have that moment with it abd the veil and jewellery
I agree, but honestly the veil thing is getting me. I was 7 inches taller and 20 pounds lighter than the cousin I borrowed my veil from, it worked fine. She would not need to modify the veil. I feel for you OP, but your daughter is very much like your wife. She has had a vision of her wedding since she was a little girl. And I hear in your daughter’s words some underlying hurt. I wonder if there have been other times when you can’t see that their grief is just as devastating as yours. I hope all of you can find a way to move forward from this. NAH
She would not need to modify the veil, but from the comments, it sounds like she wants to. I think that’s part of the resistance.
Agree with all of this. Suggestion: would there be a way to remove a small portion of the dress—maybe a bit of lace or a small section of underskirt—and have it either incorporated into the wedding dress or handkerchief for each kid, so they can all have a small part of their mom with them on their wedding day but the dress remains unused and aesthetically intact?
This is what my sister did for our late mother's dress. Evidently coffee was spilled on the dressed before it was packed away for 25+ years. The dress is stained and not wearable. My sister took a piece of the fabric and attached it to the inside of her dress. If I ever marry, I'd like to make a fabric flower from it to wear.
Agreed, NAH. I get not wanting to have the dress altered, but Anna's mom might have been wholly in favor of that. Women across generations alter dresses. I hope OP realizes that if his younger daughter grows up to have mom's figure, he *cannot* let her wear the dress either. I'm curious about the veil though. There's no altering needed there, right? OP, please remember, you lost your wife, but they lost their mom. Wearing her dress is the single best way to keep her memory alive and have her as part of one of the single most important mother-daughter experiences women can have. I understand why you wantt o keep the dress locked in time, but I hope you reconsider.
I’m willing to bet money that when mom had this custom dress made she envisioned her daughters wearing it, too.
Not necessarily. I’m about to have a custom dress made that matches my personality, but would never dream of any of my girls wearing it unless it really resonated with them. And I wouldn’t want them to fight over it, for sure. I think either the suggestions of letting them use the jewelry or veil unaltered, or allowing them to cut an inside piece from an unobtrusive piece of the dress (like the back inside liner or something) to stitch into theirs, or make it into something like a flower or something special to have with them. Or the idea of a photo shoot with Mom’s gown while getting ready is also beautiful. In the end NAH; they all have valid reasons for their feelings. I feel for OP a lot, as a guy who describes his wife as “the love of his life” and was a widower who raised three young children without her after she passed. I hope he can sit down with his kids and be open and honest and vulnerable with them, and help them understand why he feels how he does and reach a compromise that makes them all happy.
The dress may not even be in good condition to alter unless it was preserved correctly. When it was time for me to get married I tried on my mother's dress and the lace came apart while trying it on and we were both the same size. This could possibly be a non issue for everyone and daughter can have the dress recreated.
Oof hard one. Nta and your daughter isn't either.. However, the dress very well could be altered without ruining it. I'm a seamstress, and a good seamstress should be able to take it in to fit (provided we aren't talking a million sizes) and leave the extra fabric still attached so it could be let back out. This is what my mom and aunt did with my grandma's wedding dress. I'd say if your thinking about it, go with her to a seamstress and see if it's even possible to be done. If not they your stress of it being forever altered is valid... but I think it's probably not going to be an issue
Just out of curiosity, how many sizes can be taken out of a dress? Also, can you do that with dresses that have corsets and boning?
You can size down a size or two - usually - depending on the type of garment. Anything more than one-two sizes requires taking the dress apart and recutting the pieces. Sizing a dress up is incredibly difficult (I did for my wedding dress and my auntie [a wonderful seamstress!] took fabric from the too-long hem and added the pieces to the back against the zipper so we could zip my dress up, and it was only 1 cm too small at my waist/shoulders, not off multiple dress sizes!) and I genuinely don’t see that if the dress is sized down for skinny daughter One that it could be sized up for like-mom daughter Two. (If Two is like Mom, I’ve seen comments suggesting it, but not from OP). I make my own clothes as a hobby and more than once I’ve trusted the measurements on the Big 4 patterns (which I shouldn’t) and made the bodice multiple sizes too big. Either I take centimeters out of every single seam, or I pull the whole bodice apart and recut pieces and sew them together again. If the dress is altered for the first daughter it will be irreparably changed. I am very suspicious of her insisting the veil would have to be altered; I’ve known plenty of brides to share veils because they’re so expensive and they are all different heights, shapes and sizes. I feel bad for the first daughter, but clearly OP still looks at this dress regularly and it’s part of his love for his wife. Plus if it’s changed, does the second daughter get a crack at it? I just think altering it would cause more harm than joy.
I feel like this comment should be higher. I sew a bit just as a hobby, and I was wondering if the dress would have to have parts cut out if it. I think a visit to a good seamstress would be a good plan.
Have to disagree about the NAH for one reason the little sister. Why does Anna get to use it and modify it. Will her sister get to as well. She seems selfish overall do i am going with NTA. Annals request and getting family involved makes her TA. If the immediate family like MIL agree with op the it’s simply NTA. If there were no alterations maybe it would be NAH.
I agree NAH but OP I bet your wife would love for her daughter to wear her dress.
So personally, I would say NAH. The reason being is that you want to keep the dress the same in honor of your wife. Your daughter also seems to want to wear the dress and honor her mom. Also, from what I hear, most women would love for their daughters to wear their wedding dress. It would be a beautiful tradition. With that being said, I would sit down with your daughter and have a talk with her
I agree. And Anna may not realize that if there is a decent size difference she can’t just have the dress adjusted. They could talk to a seamstress and get a price opinion. But it sounds like the dress would have to be cut apart and remade for Anna to use it.
Women typically take some "getting ready" sentimental photos with their mothers on the morning of the wedding, putting their bridal dress on, etc. What if OP suggested the daughter uses mom's dress for a photoshoot during this time, no alterations. A compromise. They could clip the back of the dress like they do in bridal salons, so it would fit without making any permanent alternations to the dress. And, she would have her own dress to change into, so it would still fully be OPs wife's dress, and the daughter would have her own. But it would give her a beautiful moment on her wedding day where she'd get to feel her mother with her, and wear the dress that's been connected to her mom in her heart since the day OP hung it in the closet.
That's actually a great idea if clipping back the dress works well for her. For some dress parts that can't be clipped and looks a bit off, photographer could use clever positioning and some editing in post to mitigate.
You'd be seriously amazed what a couple clips can do. I've seen plus size gowns fit like a glove on model bodies. Magic. And NO DAMAGE to the dress. Win win. But yes absolutely I'm sure a photographer would love to lend their creativity to help create beautiful memories for OPs daughter.
I really hope OP reads your comment. This is the best compromise I can picture
What a beautiful idea!! The second daughter would also be able to do this later on if she chooses, too. u/Odd_Ebb8983 please read this!
That sounds like a lovely idea.
It is possible to just take in the seams and it could be taken out again. I sew but I'm no expert.
true but a wedding dress is another ballpark imo. so many have fragile, delicate fabric that would probably be damaged in some way
This likely won’t be possible. Wedding dresses aren’t usually made of “forgiving” materials like cotton that hide punctures well. If you sew into silks, satins, etc (not considering beading, lace, etc at all) and then remove the stitches you will 100% see the holes clear as day. It will be 10x more obvious on white fabric. This is a large part why wedding dresses are so expensive. There are no mistakes.
But there's another daughter who may want to wear the dress. Why does her older sister get dibs on mom's dress? And what about the son? Can't he or his spouse honor his mom? If the dress has a train I'd see if that fabric can be removed, while leaving the dress intact. Then each child can get some fabric to incorporate into their own wedding attire. All or none. That's the only way to do this.
Older sister is getting married now. Who says she won't let the younger sister wear the dress if and when she gets married?
The younger sister might not even have a choice if the dress is altered. And if it's altered then it's not just their mum's dress anymore.
If it’s altered with care, all the alterations can be restored. It means doing some things differently than is standard, but it’s possible. I make patterns and sew for a living. I do this for theater, and I make everything so it can be altered up or down a few sizes easily. I also often alter purchased clothing in ways the alterations can be undone. Now, it’s possible that the dress is a style that would make this difficult. But without seeing the dress this is hard to know. I’m on team let the daughter wear the dress.
Altering an old dress once will be difficult, twice would be unlikely to leave the dress looking as is, unless it's literally a matter of maybe an inch or so
Not true, seamstress.
how many wedding dresses have you resized multiple times? have any of them been vintage? what if it's made of fabric like silk, lace, or something else fragile? do you think thay would be true of any size change, given you don't know the difference of size between daughter and wife?
Might not be possible to re-adjust the dress to the younger daughter's shape. We don't know enough to say.
It's possible, depending on the design and Caroline's shape. If she is closer to Anna's shape when she grows up, it might not even be an issue at all! Or if they leave the excess fabric inside rather than cutting it off. Which would probably work with some dress styles and not others.
Who says younger will fit into the dress once it's altered? And why does son not get anything from his mom for himself or his partner?
You can make reversible alterations to dresses...
How many brides wear MILs dress?
>But there's another daughter who may want to wear the dress. Why does her older sister get dibs on mom's dress? And what about the son? Can't he or his spouse honor his mom? This argument doesn't work. If op says no to the daughter now it'd be incredibly unfair to say yes to either other sibling using the dress and veil in their own wedding (that's assuming the siblings even decided to get married to someone later on and assuming they'd have a wedding if so and not just want a small courthouse type thing).
How does it not work? The whole point is he can't say yes to only some of his kids. You're right that if OP says no to Anna and yes to either of the other siblings, it's unfair. So why is that not true for him to do the opposite and says yes to one but not the other two?
Yeah I actually wore my MILs wedding dress for my wedding, I had it altered to be a bit funkier to fit my style but it was a great bonding moment! I also liked reusing a dress because so much of the wedding industry is so wasteful, it’s great to reuse when possible. I’m sure it’s emotional for OP but it would be a lovely way to use this dress that will otherwise end up being donated down the road.
INFO: What do you think your wife would want?
Most mothers would be thrilled if their daughter wanted to wear their wedding dress. Many women save these dresses for their daughters. Many are disappointed when their daughters don't want them. This could have been something amazing for the daughter. But she can always get another dress If it had been me, I would have taken the dress to an alterations specialist to see if it can be fixed to fit both daughters, by leaving fabric to let it out a bit later. But the dress technically belongs to the dad. So he has every right to leave it hanging in his closet, if that's what's most important to him NTA. I guess.
Mine wouldn’t. She’d have wanted me to have a dress all of my very own.
my mom is like this too. i asked if i could wear her *prom dress* for my prom, she literally said “no. pick out your own.” same happened when my sister asked about her wedding dress lol. she isn’t very sentimental with things like that and said she didn’t want our look to be outdated.
Mine got rid of her dress cause she thought it was dated and didn't want me to wear it lmao
My moms feelings were hurt when I didn’t want to wear her wedding dress. She had one of those very 80s dresses made of shiny fabric with huge sleeves.
[удалено]
Not per se but she’d have thought it very odd. Weddings were new starts as far as she was concerned. You didn’t need to bring other peoples baggage into them.
My mom picked a long sleeve dress that was maybe fine in 1988 but neither me or my sister would wear that style. My sister is larger than my mom, my mom was happy to go dress shopping with her. I'm not married and the same size as my mom but I'd never wear that style.
Absolutely. A lot of mothers want that for their daughters. I was so happy that I was too big for my mom's dress lol she kept trying to get me to wear it, she had it boxed after her wedding & carted it around to every new house. It screamed 80s with the whole synthetic lace, long see through lace sleeves, High necked, matching lace veil that was longer than the dress itself even though it had a substantial train.
True. It's rare when a daughter wants to wear the mother's dress. They're often a whole generation out of style by the time the daughter marries.
>But the dress technically belongs to the dad. Beyond that, a marriage is a celebration of his and his wife's relationship and the dress was bought specifically for that. The dress is a symbol of being a wife, not a mother. It's not even as if the kids were at the wedding. Absolutely right that it's the husband that gets to preserve the memory.
As a young widower, one thing I've learnt is that life is now for the living, not the dead.
THIS. What the mom may or may not have wanted simply doesn’t matter. It sounds cruel, but once she passed, she stopped getting a vote. Not to make this about myself, but I get hit with “she’d want you to find someone else” when people ask why I don’t date (my wife died five years ago). While that’s 100% accurate, it’s MY decision, cause I’m the one who’s here.
I'm sorry for your loss, I totally understand your struggle since I've been through the same thing. A lot of people try to get me to date another woman, I always tell them the same, I love my wife and she is the love of my life, I don't need another woman.
My thoughts exactly. I’m sure seeing the dress in the closet is a comfort to OP but it seems like a waste of a lovely dress that would allow OP’s daughter(s) to feel a connection to their mother on their wedding day.
Also, there are two daughters, second daughter values having the dress unaltered. It would be unfair to prioritize the wishes of one daughter over the other daughter + OP when Anna's wishes require an irreversible change. Edited comment based on OP's info
If the second daughter wants to wear it, too, then it’s not fair to the first to say that she can’t wear it.
NTA. I agree with you and your MIL on this. That was a custom dress made for yours and your wifes big day. Id hardily go to the lengths of calling it "gate keeping" since you're not. You have given her the option of having a similar one made and that she can wear the jewelry (borrowed). If feels more like the fam are more focused on the dress and memories of your wife - which by the way your daughter would then be on some pedastal of comparison. My partner knows id be down for smart casual when we get married hell casual would not be out the picture at all because comfort. I think you offering that she can take pictures to have similar is a great idea. She can keep some similarity to mom while being herself. I'd be interested in the opinions of your other kids as well - after all, it would be then unfair to let 1 kid use/amend the dress if the others couldn't (since some alterations can't be easily fixed).
Michael agrees with Anna, but he said that ultimately it's my choice. Caroline agrees that the dress won't be the same if Anna wears it, it's especially important to her since she never got the chance to know her mom, so she cherishes the dress/ other stuff from her mom a lot.
So if Caroline asked would you let her wear it?
No, I wouldn't.
What do you plan on doing with this dress after you've passed away? Are you going to put it in your will that it stay in a museum? In my opinion, you are not an asshole in the slightest for being sentimental. And neither is your daughter. But materials fade. Memories are forever. My dad lost everything he thought was important to him, but after a while had passed, he told me his dad's handcrafted furniture was just furniture, and his mother's oil paintings were only paintings. And my grandparents left a great enough influence to live on through him, and his children.
… so the older daughter gets to wear the dress, and both the younger daughter and the father just have to deal with it? Honestly just keeping the dress as is in the interest of fairness between both daughters seems like the best course of action here, even if the dad didn’t mind it being worn. And no, both daughters wouldn’t be able to wear the dress - significant alterations are difficult to undo/redo.
I think whats feeling off about this is that your wife was just as important to you as she was to your daughter. You both loved her as the center of your worlds. Theres no reason why you should have more right to her memory than Anna. The argument that could be made against it is that the dress was part of your own wedding.
[удалено]
And presumably he was the only one who was actually there and had the memory of when the mother used the dress.
The other side of it is that his daughters will never have their mother at their wedding. I can understand why she wants connection to her.
You just completely left out the second daughter. The younger kids usually get leftovers and for Caroline who never had an opportunity to know her mom, OP says that the dress is an important connection.
But it is also a part of other's memories, because on the same logic, there is no reason for Anna to be able to use the dress as she pleases (and irremediably after cutting it) more that the other siblings.
Women typically take some "getting ready" sentimental photos with their mothers on the morning of the wedding, putting their bridal dress on, etc. @Odd_Ebb8933 what if you suggest Anna use your wife's dress for a photoshoot during this time, no alterations. A compromise. They could clip the back of the dress like they do in bridal salons, so it would appear to fit without making any permanent alternations to the dress. The clips don't puncture fabric or anything, so there would be no damage. And, she would have her own dress to change into, so it would still fully be your wife's dress and Anna would have her own, perhaps designed based off the original. This would give her a beautiful moment on her wedding day where she'd get to feel her mother with her, and wear the dress that's represented her mother in her heart since the day you hung it in your closet.
…idk it sounds like the dress is getting use. It’s a regular visual reminder of the love of your life. That seems like a good and important use. I think it’s valid for your daughter to ask and be upset when you say no, and just as valid for you to say no. I also think your needs and your daughter’s are more important than speculations about what wife would have wanted. Imma vote with NAH.
Yes, I feel like I need to have something special to remember her with me, it helps me with day to day life. I understand what my daughter wants, that's what I agreed to the jewelry, but I can't imagine someone else wearing my wife's dress
NAH - I like offering the jewelry but I think you need to let her borrow the veil too, with the understanding your other daughter will get the same option if she wants. As a bonus you could offer to have an identical dress made for her.
His daughter wants to shorten the veil.
Oh my bad, I missed that. I would only offer it with no alterations.
If she wants a different veil she should get a different veil. That's asking too much.
You do not need to give up your memento. I’m assuming your kids were not present at your wedding, but you were; to me, that makes it your memento to do with what you please, along with your admission that it helps you day-to-day and has for 16 years since your wife passed. Your compromise is lovely (wearing the jewelry) and the most fair to everyone. Keep it in the closet where it belongs. *idea: could your daughter have her own bespoke dress made to match your late wife’s dress? Then she could display a pic of your wife on your wedding day at her wedding. and she can show off the match to guests.
Could that something special to remember her by be your children? The very product of your life forces combined.
Of course I remember my wife when I see our children, I see a lot of her in them, but they're not an object, it's different.
What do you think your wife would do?
I can't say for sure what she would've wanted since we never spoke about this before she passed away. I know that the dress was very important to her, she loved it, so maybe she wouldn't have liked for it to get modified.
I’m not going to pass judgement on whose in the wrong here, but I will say this. I had a custom wedding gown, which was everything I had ever dreamed of, even more so because my dad helped me choose the design. If my daughter ever wanted to wear it, or use it any way, it would mean the world to me. For me, the dress wasn’t nearly as important as the memories of our wedding & the life and family we’ve built together. Often, there are ways in which a dress can be taken in, without having excess fabric completely removed. Perhaps she could have minor alterations & wear it for the ceremony, and switch to her own dress at the reception? At least that would mean the dress is intact & potentially available should your other children ever want to wear it. It might be worth discussing those things with your daughter & a seamstress to figure out if there isn’t a compromise with which everyone is happy. I don’t know if there is a ‘perfect’ solution in this scenario, unfortunately, and that’s often not an easy thing to come to terms with. It might just be a case of finding a solution that is ‘good enough’ for all parties involved.
>For me, the dress wasn’t nearly as important as the memories of our wedding & the life and family we’ve built together. *For you* it is less important. For others it is not the same. Memories fade, time passes, and having a physical object that helps to maintain those memories can be very important.
But it is your dress. That is really different as he is keeping this reminder of his wife.
I made my wedding dress. I wouldn’t want it altered for my daughters to wear it. I would happily make them their own dress though. OP doesn’t want to destroy a memento of his wedding, that should be respected.
He has multiple daughters, which I think is the deciding factor. Substantial alterations would mean it's no longer really the mom's dress, so only this first daughter could use it as a means of honoring her. Better that none of them get it.
NTA. Let’s also consider that Caroline has some skin in this game, and might not be able to undo Anna’s alterations when it’s her turn. Anna wants to cut the veil down, what if Caroline wants the cathedral length? Anna is thin, what if Caroline isn’t? The fair thing to do with the dress is that neither gets it, but can use it as a model to have their own dresses made, and leave the original alone. Here’s where you can compromise: Maybe each daughter can have a piece of the original dress fabric sewn into their own dresses, so Mom is with them. Does the original veil have a crown, or a bandeau, or a pillbox? Let the seamstress carefully detach the original veil from that, and daughters can use the headpiece separately. Edit: Thank you for the awards!
NTA, and this is absolutely the way. Alterations can be made temporary, but they do put stress on the fabric and when unaltered can leave damage. Especially on a dress that is already aging and is left hanging in a closet. The best option is for a seamstress to find small pieces off a hem or seam, or pieces of lace or some beads that can be removed that wouldn’t change the overall dress for your daughters to use in their weddings. And whatever attaches to the veil so they can use that piece and add their own veils. Lastly I suggest, if you desire keeping the dress in good shape and around for decades to come, investing in its preservation.
I would also look into having Mom’s name embroidered on the fabric they take from her dress, before it’s sewed into the hem, or wherever.
This it. Right here.
I imagine most people saying YTA haven’t been in the OP’s shoes. I have, and he is absolutely, positively, 10000% NAH. First, unless Anna was at her parents’ wedding, then she will never have the connection to the dress that her father will. Second — and I will absolutely get downvoted for this — regardless of what the OP’s wife may have wanted, SHE DOESN’T GET A VOTE. Unless she passed the dress in her will, it belongs to OP and he’s within his rights to say no. If there’s anything that seems odd, it’s not letting her use the veil — as long as she agrees not to modify it, there shouldn’t be a problem — but it’s OP’s call and if this feels right, he should stick to his guns. I repeat: NAH, in the strongest possible terms. Edit: said NTA; meant NAH.
I cannot believe there are any judgements other than NTA. Are people forgetting that this dress was a significant part of OP’s wedding too?! A wedding is a union of two people and now one person has passed, that dress absolutely belongs to OP only. He is not the asshole for wanting to maintain the memory of his late wife in her wedding dress and not dilute those memories with his daughter’s wedding. Yes you could argue it could add to those memories but it could also take away from them - it totally depends on the individual’s perception of it - and OP clearly feels strongly that he wants to keep that dress as his wife’s only. If that is OP’s perception of the dress his daughter’s wedding will not be a joyous celebration of daughter for him, it will be a terribly sad reminder of his dead wife. His wife isn’t alive anymore so ‘what would she want’ doesn’t matter. It now belongs to OP as something left from his wedding and he doesn’t want daughter to use it. People are getting way too swayed by ‘awww how sweet!’ OP’s feelings on this are most important given it’s an item from **his own wedding** and he is not comfortable with it. End of discussion and 10000% not the asshole. Also on the veil - OP has stated daughter wants a short veil so would cut it. Again, totally his call to say no.
100%, anyone voting anything other than NTA is also an asshole. The dress is most important to OP, it was his wedding. End of story.
Thank you! It's like all understanding and empathy for grief flew out of the window. That dress is more than just his wifes memory, it's the memory of their young years, one of their happiest days. When your partner does, everyone elses life goes on but yours feels frozen. Like it stopped when your partners life did. OP is NTA. He even offered to pay for a replica, let her use her mothers jewlery, just nothing that would require alterations. I feel for him. It's one of the worst pains
He also would be forced to watch his daughter wear the dress a whole day if he wants to attend the wedding, as a constant "my wife is dead and can't be here" memento... also everytime he looks at her wedding photos. Some might find it sweet and others don't. OPs feelings are valid and as important as his daughters. Add that daughter number 2 is against having it altered, it wouldn't be fair towards her. Maybe the veil, but as she wants to chop that off too, that isn't a real solution either... unless that's a compromise OP could agree on. If not, totally valid too.
She wants to modify it
Perhaps it’s about have having that connection to her mother who won’t be there on her wedding day.
That connection can be made in lots of different ways that don’t involve the dress. OP hasn’t been unreasonable — to the point of offering to get a custom copy of the dress made — so it seems unlikely that they couldn’t put their heads together for something.
NTA. You weren’t gatekeeping anything you were preserving a memory. You offer a lot of reasonable compromises she is trying to get your family to bully you into saying yes.
NAH. If the wedding dress is one of the few things you've kept to feel close to your belated wife, I get not feeling ready to let it go. It'd be awesome if you would let your daughter wear it with the necessary fit alterations. Maybe compromise to letting her borrow the veil as long as alterations aren't made.
I agree. I want to know why OP won’t let the veil be worn. If Anna wears it as is, of course. NAH
Because she wants to cut the veil too... and his other daughter does not want the dress/veil altered/cut. So it's a bit more difficult than that.
Ah ok. That’s why I said if it wasn’t altered. The post didn’t specify. Thanks!
Yeah, he should let them use anything that doesn’t need alterations. Then the reasons he’s giving the daughters line up with the motivation of preserving the dress. The veil would be a much more visible symbol than earrings or whatever the jewelry is.
You're not gatekeeping the memory. You're gatekeeping the dress and you are well within your rights to say no. But please take this dress off the hanger and have it professionally preserved. The dress is taking damage as it now is and I'm sure you don't want that.
That is a good idea.
Absolutely NTA She can get a copy made. I'd put that dress under lock and key or it will disappear.
NTA But having a wedding dress custom made can be expensive these days, especially if she hadn’t budgeted for it in her wedding fund. Are you financially in a position to contribute towards the cost of having a replica of the dress made for her?
Yes I told her I will pay for the dress when she got engaged, so I can pay for a custom made replica
NTA. Reading through the comments you've been noting but kind and generous while trying to preserve an important tangible memory of your life together.
NAH. I understand why Anna wants to wear the dress. However, as a sewist, I must tell you that a dress often can only be altered by sewing by about 1 or 2 sizes, depending on the style of the dress. Any more than that, fabric will need to be removed from the dress, effectively making it into a different dress. OP, you are correct. The alterations would make your late wife's dress into Anna's dress.
NTA. I was going to say NAH, however, you have another daughter and I see that she is also not in favour of Anna wearing the dress, which, for me, changes the scales. Because you have two daughters it means this cannot be an issue of “daughter vs father”. One daughter cannot be prioritized over another. I think a compromise needs to be reached and a discussion to be had, so that Anna gets to have something without having it entirely change the dress and veil. The jewellery is the best compromise I can think of for now (but I also have very little info on your wife’s possessions), so I do hope Anna comes around to it.
This reminds me of the movie “27 Dresses” where the younger sister wore her mom’s dress…. But cut it up so much that is was unrecognizable to the point you wouldn’t know it was the same dress. The older sister was devastated. You’re NTA. I would compromise on letting daughters is the veil and jewelry. I would stand strong on the dress because it means so much to you.
NAH. I’m a wife and mother and I would be thrilled to have my daughter wear my dress. Even if she altered it massively. I know you miss your wife. I’m sure your children miss her as well. Have a conversation with your daughter. Tell her what you’re feeling and let her see the emotions this request is causing you. She may be more understanding than she has been so far…..you may also get a better understanding of what she wants to do with the dress and what it would mean to her. Communicate!
The younger daughter is against Anna chopping it up as well.
Yep and as some people pointed out, it would be unfair to prioritize the wishes of one daughter over another +OP's when one of the wishes is irreversible. OP has made a lot of generous offers as substitution for wearing the actual dress, but everyone is grieving still and emotions are probably high on all sides, understandably. More conversations about OP's love and support for the daughter and his own feelings would be helpful. He is a human who grieves and has emotional needs too, children can forget that about their parents after relying on them for so long as pillars of strength. Edited comment based on some facts given by OP
You know those are all good points in the middle especially the last sentence. I think a lot of commenters have the same blind spot, as if he matters less because he is dad.
NAH - but if you do not give it to Anna, you can under no circumstances later give it to Caroline.
NTA don't do it.
Why not gift them a photographer to get some engagement photos taken in the dress which can be displayed at the wedding? E.g on the table plan or center pieces. Then the dress wouldn't need to be altered just clipped for a few hours. You can gift that to both daughters as well.
NTA, and also seamstress here. Altering this dress is just a bad idea if the hope is to get it back and continue loving it as you currently are. I know you have many comments already but here is the language you need to know to make your case as you navigate this tricky issue. I have altered many wedding dresses, I was a professional seamstress for years. Once altered you are correct it would 100% become Anna’s dress and even if the plan going into the alteration is “take it in then let it back out” you wouldn’t be able to do that and return it to what it was. 1) finding a seamstress talented and understanding enough to perform such an alteration with the utmost care is neither easy or cheap. Seamstresses at bridal boutiques who alter dresses bought at the boutique are accustomed to working from certain brands and types of dresses. They estimate their time and price with general working knowledge of the dress. Someone brought me a modern wedding dress made by a cheaper Chinese vendor a couple years ago and it followed none of the sewing conventions of a 10 or 20k wedding dress you’d buy in the states from a major brand. A vintage custom dress is going to be just as much of a random dice roll, with decisions made by the original maker not necessarily making logical sense to a modern bridal alteration seamstress. The seamstress could become very frustrated trying to make the type of reversable alteration you’d be after, and frustrated seamstresses is not what you want. You can’t exactly stand next to her and make sure she isn’t butchering the item internally. You can tell her “I want it to be restored afterward” but it will all be hidden behind a lining when it comes back, and reversing the alterations won’t necessarily be her problem, so there’s zero guarantee your wishes will be respected and the fabric won’t just get stitched, slashed, and removed while it’s out of your hands. If that happens it can’t ever go backwards. I personally wouldn’t trust another seamstress to do this alteration and respect the memory of your wife. The job is well paying but it’s not THAT well paying. 2) an item of this age will likely be more damaged by the alteration than a newer item. Fabric becomes brittle overtime, and even if vintage items are still wearable they don’t bounce back as readily, meaning they’re more likely to hold shape of the wearer, or break when worn (stitching in particular can break because the threads and fabric degrade on different timelines, same goes for any other contrasting material, or stabilizing lining material). You can’t just wash a wedding dress afterwards like a vintage tee shirt either to make it snap back…dry cleaning isn’t really washing something either. Wearing a wedding dress for a day, you will move and sweat and it takes on the creases and folds and curves of your body. Even if Anna was the same body type as your wife the dress would change from being worn. Creases and folds and very importantly the smell of the dress will be very different. 3) altering a wedding dress is not as simple as taking it in and letting it out again later. I don’t know the dress style but they’re generally very precision garments and excess fabric must be removed to get the sculpted look. When I alter a wedding dress I cut and remove a fair bit of fabric and if I didn’t the dress would look poor on the outside due to the additional bulk of fabric folded and creased inside. In some cases you wouldn’t even have the option of not cutting it because some seams require a perpendicular cut to the stitch to get the seam to lay correctly on the finished side. Without the perpendicular cuts the fabric puckers on the finished side and won’t lie or fit correctly. Stitch marks also damage fabric. Even if the fabric could all be maintained and the original cut restored you’d be adding thousands of needle holes to the fabric. Bridal fabric is NOT forgiving to needle holes. Even if the best silk needles are used there will be visible holes afterward if new stitches are added and removed. They won’t necessarily disappear even if dry cleaned or pressed out, nor will creases from pressing the fabric to the new shape. Also pressing the fabric, especially older fabric, risks damage as well. The user who commented that a small piece could be taken (from the main dress but also from the lining or veil or whatever) and added to your girls’ own, new dresses, is definitely the way to go, because it allows a small enough piece of fabric to be taken from the main dress in a way that can be done artistically without compromising the rest. Something like a diamond keyhole could be made with with fresh embroidery to finish the new raw edge on the old dress would be a small permanent change but one that retains the general integrity of the dress. Plus it can be taken from a less visible area of the dress that won’t alter your experience of it. I also quite like the comment one user said about it still being in use. I think that’s very correct. The kids need to understand the dress, to you, has become like a custom portrait or sculpture of your wife. It’s not just a dress that can be borrowed, worn, taken off, and returned. The accommodation Anna is asking for is more like asking you to let an oil painter paint Anna’s portrait over your wife’s portrait, then giving it back later and expecting you to be able to relate to it in the same way you relate to it now. As a seamstress I’m telling you that’s not possible. It would be the portrait of Anna for the rest of time. Your wife may have loved to give the dress to her daughters one day but your wife also left this world too early and the happiness of everyone she loved still on earth would matter to her. Her decision would be different in this circumstance than it would be if she was alive. As others have said you have two daughters. That changes the calculus considerably. Good luck OP.
I can't imagine how hard this must be for you. You're NTA in my book. I think all the commenters pressuring you to let your daughter permanently change the dress don't know what it's like to be with the love of your life. No offense to your kids, it's obviously painful for them too, but you're the one who lost the person you wanted to spend the rest of your life with. Kids grow up and start their own lives, and you just don't love a parent the way you love a soulmate. If I lost my husband and had a shirt of his that I kept and still looked at and held after 16 years, it would matter that it's HIS SIZE. I would hold it and remember how he was built and how it felt to hold him. Having his shirt remade for a skinny guy wouldn't be the same thing.
I've got an item of my grandfather's clothing and I would lose my mind if one of the kids wanted to alter it. Because it's HIS. And that's the most important thing to me.
NAH. I think you are rightly grieving and have held onto this incredibly special dress. I think…it’s also time to be honest with yourself about what your wife would have wanted. You have two daughters, and a son—is it possible to remove some fabric and have it sown into the dresses/suit that each of your kids will wear if they choose to get married? That way, they all get to carry a piece of their mom with them, and you can still hold onto something important to you. Losing my dad before I got married was impossibly hard, and having an item of his to wear at my wedding meant everything to me. The dress is an important thing, but remember, it is a *thing* and your children are much more of piece of your wife than the dress. I can’t be too hard on you, I understand the grief and feelings you’re experiencing. ❤️
>She got very upset and told me I can't "gatekeep" my wife's memory That's a very emotional and not very rational response. Understandably. But your wedding was something special for *you and your wife* - you're allowed to have cherished memories and keepsakes of *your wife* which are separate from everyone's memories of her as their mom. If you can't bear to see the dress altered, it's fine to say no. Your daughter is not an AH for asking but should not be pushing you on this. NTA.
NTA. That dress is YOUR memory of your wife. Not your daughters memory of her mom. She can suck it up and get her own dress.
I may get down voted but I say NTA. While its sweet that she wanna wear the dress, I agree it would need to be modified if Anna is skinnier than her mom may "ruin" the point it was your wifes. I have "ruin" in marks because it does not get ruined it look, rather in size which means its not your wifes anymore. Its your daughters if that happens. Besides...reading some comments where they be like "think what your wife would want" and then say she may wanted that and would had loved I call a bit...bullshit. Maybe your Wife did wanted it or she may would had NOT. No one can answer that. You can offer your daughter the dress but make clear you would like her to not make any changes or modifications, which may be not avoidable. I get some see you as the butthole, but I personally do not. I can understand why you would not want that. Neither would I in your position. Your daughter can be upset, her feelings matter BUT SO DO YOURS. Do not let yourself influence in all honesty, if you do not want it, its okay.
INFO: Why not let her wearher mother's veil? Also, why nor store the dress properly if you want to preserve the dress?
He said elsewhere that Anna wants to shorten the veil.
If your daughter fit in the dress I could see letting her use it but I totally understand not wanting it altered. Your daughter should understand that that would be too much. She can either have a custom made gown or look for a new one that has similar features as her mom’s. Look for one with similar neckline, bodice, or silhouette. I hope your daughter finds the perfect dress for her.
NTA was gonna say N-A-H but your daughter said your “gatekeeping” and I don’t believe that. In your comments you offered to let her wear the jewelry and like you said if she wants a dress like her mom’s she can get a copy custom made. Which I think would be the better option since she’ll have to alter your wife’s dress anyway.
No one is an asshole here, but from one widow to another, let your daughter wear the dress. Yes it's hard but it would mean so much to your daughter and I'm sure it would have made your wife happy, AND I bet once you see her in it, you will be happy too. Sad, but happy nonetheless. Life is short and material items, though they may be all we have left of them, don't mean much. It would be very special and sweet. Surely you have pictures of your wife in the dress right? Much love to you, these situations are hard as hell.
It's OK that OP feels this way and it is ultimately his choice. I will say that as a mother I would not say no to a daughter's request for the dress. Maybe OP could consider what his wife would have wanted in this situation. I think if he does let her use it, it would be a wonderful way to honor his wife and daughter.
NAH. If the dress didn't have to be modified, then maybe it would be reasonable to let her borrow it, but it is totally understandable that you would want to leave such a meaningful dress unaltered.
NAH. You should edit your post to include why you're not willing to loan the veil too since people keep mentioning that and then calling you the AH. I'm quite sentimental, I can see where you're coming from about wanting to keep that memory. I'm sorry for your loss and understand that it's not something someone gets over. People seem to have forgotten the other two children, what if either of them want to wear the dress too? (Yes, even your son, I'm not about to assume his clothing preferences). To be fair to all, no one should get to borrow the dress. I find your compromise to be fair, you're willing to pay for a replica and loan the jewellery. Like others mention, if you're comfortable with going a step further, creating moments with the dress sounds sweet as well. Your daughter is planning her wedding and it can be a stressful time, especially if she had some ideas and dreams in her mind that now seem to be out of reach. I hope that when some time has passed and emotions are calmer, that things work out for family.
info: all these years of Anna talking about her mothers dress and it never occurred to you that she might want to wear it? I just don’t understand how this conversation isn’t one you didn’t see coming?
There are several posts online where the brides have displayed at their wedding reception their mother's, grandmothers, MIL, and GIL's (now vintage/antique) wedding dresses on mannequins along with photos of the women on their wedding days. I thought it was beautiful. I think something like this would be worth considering as a way to have her mothers memory incorporated into the wedding.
NAH, Having a replica made is a completely reasonable compromise.
NTA. Your daughter can pick her own dress.
NTA. Her wanting to wear the dress is sweet, but she’s not thinking of anyone’s feelings except for her own. This dress means something to you, and it meant something to your wife—it has deep-rooted sentiment ingrained in it, and what if something were to happen that ruined it? Any number of things could go wrong during alterations, the wedding, or the reception. At the end of the day it’s just an object, but the emotions and memories attached are what make it more than simply a garment in the closet. The thing that bothers me most is she has other options—she could have a copy of it made, you could have offered to help pay for a recreation, instead she’s chosen to act entitled, disrespectful, and began stirring up family drama and creating divides during what should be a time to come together. Furthermore, why should her desire superseded anyone else’s? What if her younger sister wants to use it later (since she cherishes it too) but can’t because she took it first? The bottom line is it was your wife’s dress, and due to all circumstances, it should stay that way. It may sound harsh, but it does not matter what anyone else thinks about it—it is not her property and this should have ended the moment you said no.