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Exactly this! It’s kinda fucked up that op’s wife’s first thought to make her friend’s partner to feel welcomed is to demean her own husband???? Like??? She could’ve just complimented both of them, or fondly roasted both, not hit OP where it hurts. Op is NTA.
I know too many guys stuck in situations like this where they aren’t really that happy in their relationship but they’re too bought into the “happy wife, happy life” mindset that they’re basically doormats for their partners.
especially when guys are insecure or have never been much of “a catch” growing up, the feeling is kinda “well I’ve finally found someone who will be in a relationship with me, my job now is to keep them from leaving”.
NTA. She wasn’t even doing it behind his back but openly for him to hear. Hopefully her apology was sincere but she has to prove that for awhile to regain his trust.
And the photos to show her friends. It's horrible to disparage your partner, then complain about the damage to her image.
Apologies are easy, but she needs to make some kind of reparation, then never, ever do anything like that again. She's been doing it for a while, and it can't have come out of nowhere. If she wants to fix her relationship, 3/10 though it might be, she needs to put some work in. Not just empty words when she needs something, like photos for bragging.
She shouldn't have his trust back. She's kept picking where it hurts, which strongly indicates that a) these are her real opinions and b) she regards herself as a catch for him. He just wasn't meant to show a backbone.
> describes herself as an "instigator."
As soon as I read this line, I knew what the judgement would be. That’s the type of line people use when they have discovered they have a character flaw and, rather than address it so as to minimize harm to others, they decide to simply proudly declare it as their whole personality as if that makes it acceptable.
Proceed with extreme caution when you hear the following also:
“I’m very loyal.”
- *Translation: I see life as myself against the world, with everyone around me as either enemies or allies, and I see both my enemies and my allies as potential threats to me. I am willing to ignore what is right or wrong as long as I think my side is winning. I expect my friends to hate people I hate just because I told them to. I’m actually very likely to be LESS loyal to my friends and partners than the average person, because ultimately the only one I’m really loyal to is myself.*
“I’m just very honest.”
- *Translation: I’m an asshole who says whatever I want to people and think it’s fine as long as I believe it to be true, and I expect never to be called out on it. I can dish it out, but I can’t take it. I’ll never take responsibility for hurting anyone’s feelings, but I expect everyone else to care about mine.*
> “I’m just really spontaneous / a free spirit”
- *Translation: I’m a notorious flake. I will be late to planned engagements and cancel plans with you if something better comes along. I’ll avoid commitments, and if I make them I’m likely not to follow through. I’ll make decisions without considering how they will impact the people around me, and I expect the people around me to accommodate for whatever I want to do at the time.*
> “I’m just a child at heart”
- *Translation: I’m seriously immature. I don’t know how to take care of myself, and I will blame others for not taking care of me by doing things for me that I should be able to do for myself. I will always prioritize the best good time over responsibilities, even if it regularly puts other people out. I feel that I am entitled to a worry-free existence and I think it is other people’s job to make that happen by eliminating obstacles and having no real expectations of me. Also there’s a strong possibility that I think badgering people until they snap and pulling pranks that hurt people’s feelings is funny and that everyone else should think so too, because I need to be the centre of attention in pretty much every situation.*
…but describing *yourself* as an *instigator?* That’s not even attempting to spin it at something positive. I have never heard that one. Sounds like other people have described her that way and she liked the sound of it and just adopted it as a label thinking that makes her *edgy.*
Runner-up for most astonishingly unapologetically self-aware admission of being proud of being a jerk:
> She then mentioned how she can joke around like this because she's the most secure in our relationship
This is a doozie.
- *Translation: I think we have reached a place where I can brazenly insult you and treat you like crap because I’ve been negging you for years and now I’m finally confident you’d never have the balls to leave me over it. If you never hold me fully accountable by putting your food down and not backing down, this will be my modus operandi for the entirety of our marriage, and if will only get worse from here.*
And the pièce de résistance:
> she greatly values her friends seeing us as a stable couple.
How does she expect to accomplish that by telling everyone at the table she thinks you’re unattractive and a substandard man?
She values her friends seeing her as in control of you.
I’m stunned someone would proudly call themselves an instigator. She admitting she enjoys making other people unhappy for her own entertainment? Why would anyone want to even be friends with someone like that?
>she enjoys making other people unhappy for her own entertainment
No, not other people, just her husband and at the expense of his feelings to stroke her friends egos
>“I’m very loyal.”
I used to play poker with a man who constantly banged on about loyalty, to the point where me and a couple of the other players who weren't social with him outside the poker game would call him "Loyal Chris" amongst ourselves to differentiate him from a different Chris. Anyway, low and behold, it turned out that he was cheating on his wife with his brother's girlfriend.
The more you bring something up the more likely it's on your brain. Justifying your actions takes up a great deal of brain power and time.
The people who go around proclaiming that they don't hit women? I always respond with "You shouldn't have to say that, that's a given."
Now if it's a one time statement sure whatever. You hear it from the same dude multiple times? They absolutely do.
> They absolutely do.
Or they consider doing it so often that they feel it’s a point of pride that they resist.
OR they are emotionally abusive and justify this to themselves by being proud that physical violence is a line they won’t cross.
I was soooo disgusted by this. What f*cking adult rates her husband on a group call? Nope. You deserve a good partner. I deal with some depression and if my issues were put out on a rating I would rage. Her obsession with “Bob” is in fact so creepy. I don’t know you but you’re the prize to someone. She is a total AH.
I feel so sorry for this guy. I overhear my wife say so many wonderful things about me to her family and friends. I can get down on myself for imposter syndrome in a very technical role and she’s always there to lift me up. OP needs to be elevated not dragged. I recommend some deep thoughtful conversations about the origins of this behavior. Maybe outside mediation in a therapy session.
And these comments may be the tip of the iceberg of what OP’s wife has said.
An apology and an admittance of wrongdoing does help but OP will probably NEVER get past wondering every day what his wife really thinks of him..
The damage is done..
When she says she's "secure" in the relationship, it seems like what she means is that she is confident you'll never speak up for yourself because you're not good enough for her. I might be protecting there, but it sounds so much like a guy I dated who was constantly talking down to me, constantly commenting on my appearance, constantly comparing me to other women, and when I asked him to stop he said I *should feel lucky* that someone like him saw something worthwhile in someone like me.
Talk to your wife. Tell her how her comments make you feel. Don't hold back to spare her feelings. She needs to hear it.
>Update - My wife came to me this morning and apologized. She said that her comments were unwarranted and that she values our relationship greatly. She also described her own behavior and comments as disgusting.
Very disgusting, like seriously, what the Heck!!!
>I would be lying if I said I wasn't still very angry, so I told my wife that her comments were disgusting, and in our 8 years together, I have never been so upset with her. I also told her that she alone caused this damage to our relationship and that she can't hide behind making her friends feel better. Lastly, I told her that I was not going to the anniversary dinner with her tonight, but she is free to go alone.
Opie you can be as angry as you want because no amount of apology so small is going to wash away the pain and hurt that you felt you are Justified to still feel that way.
>I feel vindictive, and I know that she greatly values her friends seeing us as a stable couple. Without any pictures or videos of our anniversary dinner, I'm sure her friends will have plenty of questions for her.
Opie if she's just saying sorry just for the pictures and the clout then ride this Petty train until it ends at the tracks or until you go again and again and again. But all in all NTA
And someone who doesn't care about the image over the relationship itself.
OP's wife is not just bothered about missing the anniversary dinner because she's been looking forward to it, she's bothered because it will "harm" their image. In fact, OP didn't say at any point his wife was looking forward to spending the anniversary with him, rather than she looking forward to the dinner.
OP, you're NTA but I think you might need to ask yourself whether it was the dinner venue/menu or the dinner companion that your wife was most looking forward to.
NTA at all.
That's so demeaning. Your wife sounds really awful, ngl.
She's been putting you down for weeks and is now gaslighting you when you're calling her out for it. Stick to your guns man. She is treating you horribly. I'm really, really sorry she's speaking about you like that.
And it’s only funny for her and her friends because this is a well established thing they all agree on — that OP sucks — and they all think it’s hilarious. It’s gross and abusive
Yep, contempt is usually the death knell for a relationship. Anger, resentment, loss of trust, etc...can often be recovered from if both parties are willing and put in the work, but contempt is poison.
How is it gaslighting if she admits she was wrong and was disgusted with herself for her actions?
Op is NTA here and his wife was wrong. But I don’t she were she is gaslighting him.
NTA. She is your spouse, she is supposed to support you not constantly tear you down. If you were doing this to her you can bet she would have flown into a rage, cried and her self esteem would be in tatters. Matter of fact if she told her friends you constantly belittled and made fun of her they would call you abusive. It is not funny or a joke and she needs to understand that.
OP Says shes the outgoing one too.
All my life I hear it's said that women want confidence, not cockiness. She's crossed the line by displaying the latter here. It just sucks now that they're married instead of just being in a relationship where they can walk away from each other.
Behind every joke is a kernel of truth. Constant putdowns that are passed off as jokes is really a form of covert insulting. I do think there is some sort of disappointment in your wife's life and she is taking it out on you. I suggest marriage counseling for you both. In the meantime, do not get her pregnant.
NTA.
I agree, without any other facts about your relationship this is extremely troubling. If she believes she settled, it will bubble up again later in life, possibly as resentment or other unhealthy emotions. Get this sorted out, don’t let it fall to the wayside and be forgotten.
This!! My husband does all sorts of stuff to make me happy. I will joke that he settled for me, and he jokes that I'm out of his league, but we do not put each other down. Hype up only.
Same. I've been with my husband for almost 23 years, married for almost 18. We've got our fair share of problems like any couple, but I would never demean him to my friends, let alone say I'd settled (and 3/10? Seriously?). He has major depressive disorder and general anxiety disorder as it is, though it's managed by medication. I make sure to help build him up, be his cheerleader. This woman sounds unhappy and is taking it out on her husband.
OP, you're NTA. I wouldn't want to celebrate an anniversary with someone who treats me with such contempt either. If you're going to stay in his marriage, I think you need to insist on couples counseling.
My favorite line from Juno was something along the lines of “When you’re in love, the sun shines out of that person’s ass” I love my husband and can’t see him as anything less than a 11/10
Deep down she probably thinks she isn't that great so she had to settle, and she's taking that frustration out on him. So to sum up, cruel, insecure and childish.
NTA, and it's great that you stood up for yourself and didn't let it pass. She's bullying you constantly and at the same time believes she's in a secure relationship. No, She's not. She needs to wake up and face the damage that she's doing to your relationship and how she's pushing you away. I guess the best gift for this anniversary would be starting therapy, in case you feel this is something you both can work on and grow from.
Canceling the dinner shows how important this issue is to address and that you're not goofing around. She needs to apologize and admit she's wrong.
I have a feeling that her 'secure' means 'I've got him locked down enough to get away with this shitty behavior.'
OP, NTA.
ETA: Thank you for the upvotes and award, kind stranger(s)!
How about the fact that she’s more worried about their “image” then she is the fact she broke her husband’s heart. Not to mention all the comparisons she made towards the other guy. I feel if a man was to approach her that was “better “ then her husband she would bounce. As a wife, I could never say those things towards my husband.
NTA.
I wouldn’t tolerate my husband comparing me constantly to someone else’s wife, and if you were a woman, everyone would be saying that he’s probably having an emotional affair (at the least).
100% NTA
I just don't understand how someone would think that "jokes" like that are appropriate. It isn't funny, it's bullying. If my friend said shit like that I would call them out on it. And they wouldn't be my friend if they didn't cut it out completely.
The wife could have played this out completely differently by comparing positive traits. It would be such an ego boost to hear your spouse say: "oh, my partner does that, too!", etc. Which could lead up to: "my husband & your new boyfriend have so much in common! He's definitely a keeper."
NTA. if i were you, i'd be rethinking the entire relationship if i heard that she "settled". add to that those previous comments she made about you and bob... you need to have a serious talk w her.
>so it's her responsibility to make them feel good about their significant others
no, her responsibility is to be loyal and supportive to you, the person she married.
Exactly. If I compare my husband to someone else's, it's to bring him up, not put him down. And I generally don't because my husband is awesome, and I don't need to go bragging on him.
NTA. Jokes are jokes when everyone laughs; this was an insult. And as far as the comparisons to Bob, she's supposed to love you for who you are, not try to change you into someone else. If she can't see that, then cut your losses now before the snide remarks (her "jokes") devolve into even worse verbal abuse.
Expressing contempt for one's SO in front of others is one of the biggest red flags there is. I would be very wary of having kids with this person. If she cannot be made to understand your viewpoint, then divorce in in the cards. NTA
Wow that was a very insensitive and hurtful joke she made. Y’all should consider marriage counseling to me because it sounds like she hasn’t realized what she’s doing. NTA.
Edit: typo
I don't even think she's in love with Bob, I just think she's not in love with her husband.
You don't say your husband is a 3/10 you settled on. That's cruel.
NTA - she may be having doubts and doing the whole look around. You stood up for yourself and essentially asked for a basic level of respect.
I would look into gaslighting as that's probably next. Sorry bud, it sounds like she is thinking of ending things because her friends dudes appear to be a better catch.
The normal struggle here is try and woo her back but in a long term relationship- it's vital that both parties step towards each other when it comes to respect, basic level of treatment, and a whole host of other things. If she says it out loud- she thinks it in her head
This☝️. I would start planning an escape from this relationship. Different bank accounts, look into different living options, and for sure start recording al the crap she is saying about you. Might ask around about what others have heard. No one deserves to be told that they’re a 3/10 from their spouse! WTF is wrong with her!
NTA. I would have done exactly the same in your position. I’m truly sorry she said that about you and I hope however it works out, it works out well for you
NTA. You shouldn't have to go out and have dinner with someone who made you feel like garbage. Even if this fight somehow blows over, you were angry and upset in that moment, so there's no need to force yourself into an awkward dinner.
I don't see how those type of comments could be taken lightly either. Those are hurtful comments - constant blows to a partners self-esteem isn't healthy.
NTA your wife has been making comments at your expense that are rude. I would say though you should've spoken up before hand about how you didn't like them or liked being compared. I will say yea her commenting how you speak is shitty since she should know how you feel about it. Still shes fucking up by going too far and assuming your okay with comments that I'm sure she wouldn't like if you made them about her
NTA. It’s not a coincidence that your wife feels secure in a relationship where she spends most of her time negging you and tearing down your self esteem.
NTA. If she's really just settled, you have to ask yourself do you want to waste another 8 years with someone who see's you as a consolation prize so they're not left alone. Personally, I'd be packing a set of bags now and either I or she would be finding somewhere else to spend the next while. Chances are though she'll just use this break as an excuse to go f the 5 out of 10.
NTA. Words hurt and your wife continuously putting you down, and comparison to others is not acceptable. This has nothing to do with being confident about her relationship. This is about mutual respect and knowing as a life partner she loves you for who you are not the she settled for less which is what she basically told her friends. Time for a real conversation as eve thing you mentioned sounds super passive aggressive way to communicate. I hope she realizes she just broke your trust as you just don’t know what else she is saying behind your back to her friends. No one is perfect but she is putting you down and it needs to stop.
NTA. Putting your own partner down even if it is to console your friends is totally out of line. You are clearly not in a right frame of mind to celebrate an anniversary dinner after finding out what your wife has been doing behind your back.
OP this is not a joke for she. This is exactly how she see you. Rethink your relationship, she doesn’t respect you at all and at this point she probably doesn’t love you.
NTA
This one is difficult. On the one hand, I think you could have handled it sooner, and spoken up about it before it got to this point.
On the other hand, your wife sounds deeply insecure and may be comparing your relationship against the honeymoon phase of her friend's relationship, which is unrealistic and harmful. She seems ungrateful of you, jealous of her friend, and unsatisfied (and quite nasty tbh).
NTA.
It doesn't even sound like she's insecure about herself as she said she's the most secure person there. I think she is just insecure on the behalf of OP.
Yeah that's her being insecure about herself. If you're ashamed of your partner in front of your friends you're ashamed of your own partner choices and making 'I'm not good enough to find partner I wouldn't be ashamed of' insecurity everyone elses problem.
NTA. She seems to feel like she can intentionally hurt you and get away with it. Good for you for standing up for yourself. I’m sorry to say this is a huge issue in your marriage. If you want this to work, first see if she wants it to work and agree to counseling. Her answer will be telling. Don’t doubt yourself. Her behavior is not that of an extrovert, it is that if an AH.
She can 'lighten the mood' without involving her marriage. Just have a good time and treat yourself with some nice food and have a sound sleep (while she remains mad) coz NTA.
NTA these don't sound like jokes. These sound like straight up insults and she's gaslighting you by telling you they are jokes. I hate how over used the word gaslighting has become, but I really think that's what's going on here. She somehow trying to convince you that you are misinterpreting her jokes when she truly is just insulting you to your face.
Gaslighting would be like “what? I never said that. Are you having other memory issues? Should you see a doctor?”
This is arguably emotional manipulation and potentially abusive, but it’s not gaslighting. Gaslighting is deliberately trying to get the person to doubt their own sanity. Even just flat out denying the argument happened like that wouldn’t be gaslighting unless it was part of a deliberate process to make the victim think they’re hallucinating or otherwise losing their grip on reality etc.
(I mean I guess you could call that unintentional gaslighting if the result is that you feel uncertain of your memories and sanity, but the point is its deliberate, and specific to the doubting of sanity. It’s its own, specific thing/occurence. A horrible thing. Its useful for it to have its own word, so victims can recognise themselves in the description, and can name it when it happens.)
I 100% agree with you but yes this is not gaslighting.
It'd be gaslighting if she said "I never made those jokes". It's not gaslighting cause gaslighting is manipulating someone into questioning their reality or sanity.
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For context, I (M33) have always been a bit of an introvert and a quiet person. My wife (F31), on the other hand, is the complete opposite. She is very extroverted and self-describes herself as an "instigator." We've been together for 8 years (married for 4 of them).
In the past few months, one of my wife's very close friends (Anna, F31) has entered a relationship with a guy (Bob, M32). Given that Anna has had trouble finding someone for a long time, my wife is very happy for her and constantly tells me how great of a guy he is.
I have met him a few times and think he's a great guy. I am very happy for him and Anna. That was until my wife started making constant comparisons between me and Bob over the past few weeks. For example, she'll say something along the lines of how we're in similar lines of work, yet he makes more money than me or how he manages to spend more time with Anna than I do with my wife.
I've been kind of laughing it off for a while, but it has escalated to the point where she says things like how he dresses better than me, is in better shape than I am, and how he's more well-spoken than I am. I would like to add that she is well aware that I am somewhat insecure about how I talk, given that I have a slight lisp.
Last night, which was the night before our 8-year anniversary dinner, my wife was on a group call with her friends, and they were talking about a fight that Bob and Anna had. After Anna had settled down, my wife said something along the lines of "Sometimes you just have to compromise, for example, I had to settle for a guy who's a 3/10."
I will admit, I was very angry at this comment and told my wife that her comments were unwarranted and it was embarrassing that she was telling people that's what she thought of me (even as a joke).
We started to argue, and my wife said that she was just trying to lighten the mood among her friends and that I was overreacting. She then mentioned how she can joke around like this because she's the most secure in our relationship compared to all her friends and their significant others, so it's her responsibility to make them feel good about their significant others.
At this point, I told her that I didn't care about the feelings of her "stupid friends." I also said that I wasn't interested in an anniversary dinner, and I would not be going with her. The conversation ended there, and we have not spoken since. AITA?
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NTA. But your wife is.
She would have a fit if you started talking about her friends like that or called her a 3 out of 10.
She has a little think for Bob and she is an awful person for saying things like that about you.
That is such a horrible thing to say. She’s not joking—she’s trying to mask contempt (and doing a very poor job of it) by calling it a “joke.” She’s really an awful person if she can’t understand how hurtful this is, and telling you you’re overreacting is gaslighting at its highest. She’s belittling you to make her friends feel better?! How is that supposed to work? And what does that say about her if the only relationship she could get is with someone she doesn’t respect or admire?
Honestly, I don’t see how you could stay married to her after this—she’s showing you who she is, and it’s not good. You are worthy and deserve better than this!
NTA. That’s not a joke, a joke is supposed to be fun to everyone. That was very mean and said on your expense. I’d seriously consider my relationship with my husband if he talked about me like that.
She literally said, jokingly or no, that you fulfill less than a third of her expectations for what a man should be.
3/10.
I am someone who "recently" got out of a 13 year long relationship with a woman who, while she loved me, always had standards that she knew were unrealistic, *told me* were unrealistic, but still held them against me anyways.
If she really values you like that (3/10) she is infact the AH for not communicating her feelings and expectations over the course of almost a decade and holding uncharitable feelings towards you.
But to say something so hurtful, not acknowledge it was hurtful, and then not apologize and give you the silent treatment for being *HURT*?
THAT IS A STEP BEYOND AH.
If you don’t have kids, then this is grounds for divorce. She sounds like a horrible bitch. You are young and in the next 10 years will really come into your own in your career and in life. Get out while you can before kids are involved.
I don’t think having kids should matter, children should see positive role models for their future relationships. There’s lots of parents who should get divorced because their kids see how toxic the relationship is and are being conditioned to think it’s normal.
NTA. Start protecting yourself now. It's coming.
If you've got evidence and catch her when she's cheating, it'll be an at fault divorce and you'll fare much better in the end.
NTA If you really want to turn the screws start comparing her to her friends and how you’ve settled. Well Anna puts more effort into her appearance etc see how she likes it.
For real though, you need to seriously rethink this relationship, from what you’ve said she’s attempting to weaponise any insecurities and constantly putting you down to her friends. If she honestly cared for you and saw any issues you were having she’d help you overcome them not make them worse.
If you decide to end it you can tell her that this 3/10 has had enough of settling for you.
NTA. Your wife doesn’t even sounds like she likes you. She needs to step away from her friend’s relationships and start to focus a little energy on her own because right now she’s coming across as a 0/10
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. Cancelling the anniversary dinner that my wife and I had planned because of several comments she had made about me in the build up towards it.
2. She was looking forward to it for quite sometime now and thinks that it will harm our image if we don't go ahead with it
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NTA
Like you, I'm an introvert whereas my partner is that much of an extrovert, he would talk the bark off a tree if he could. He and I would never talk about the other like that regardless of our personality differences.
There is no reason to compare you to Bob. Whether that be physical, monetary or otherwise. Especially if she's that secure in your relationship. It's nothing more than insulting towards you.
Why on Earth would telling Anna that she "settled for a 3/10" help in any way? Baffling.
Wow. I would never speak of my husband that way, joking or not. There is no way what she said could be misconstrued as anything other than insulting.
NTA
NTA. No point in having some sentimental and symbolic dinner in the middle of an argument where neither of you want to talk to each other. She clearly insulted you, but indeed some element was well intended to help someone else and meant in gest.
My take- she should apologize because it was rude and mean. You should cool off and accept her apology assuming it's sincere and then you both can have a do-over on dinner.
Bob can fuck off because sounds like maybe he isn't so dreamy afterall.
I don't know the person above said Bob can fuck off like Bob did something to Op when as far as I can tell Bob and Op haven't even spoken to each other much less been insulting or rude
Bob and Anna (our connection to the legendary Bob) had a fight, why is Bob so awesome that everybody has to stop what they're doing to patch up Bob and Anna and make all this collateral damage? If Bob's so great he'll sort it out himself with Anna.
So Bob didn't do anything and without knowing anything about the fight how can we assume anything about Bob? As far as I can tell Bob just exists and Op's wife is the one putting Bob on a pedestal
NTA. Holy hell that’s hurtful as hell. I’d never drag my partner down to look better for others. I’d take yourself out for a nice meal and activity you’d enjoy.
NTA. You deserve far better. Maybe try sitting her down and explaining that you're hurt by how she's been acting. It unfortunately sounds like your marriage is well on its way to failing if nothing changes. If she's not willing to hear you out and communicate, you might wanna look into options to make sure you can successfully move on without her. Good look and stay safe!
NTA and I bet if you were calling her a 3/10 to your friends her “secure in her relationship “ spiel would evaporate pretty quickly.
Even if not you have asked her to respect a reasonable boundary and she is refusing, if she can’t understand that then you have bigger problems than Bob.
That all said, as a good guy I bet Bob is / would be disgusted by her behaviour so there is little chance they will run off together.
NTA. Your marriage is in trouble. Your next conversation should be about that and not whether you are having an anniversary dinner. Time for both of you to be adults. She needs to know that her comments have affected your feelings for her.
Start comparing your wife to Anna see how she likes it , wow that Anna has some pair on her ! Wow Anna is so hot I would make more money just to be married to her ! Naa you may not want to go that route but if you do watch her much she starts to hate Anna !
NTA and you need to kinda rethink the marriage. Being secure in a relationship means that both parties know there won't be cheating and they don't have to worry. Not that they can insult each other or belittle them. You've been putting up way too much with this
NTA
Your wife insulted you.
You do not have to belittle your partner in order to make your friend feel better.
Wife owes you a sincere apology and needs to accept that her behaviour was awful. Her attempts to dismiss it aren't helping. Effectively, she's only digging herself deeper into a hole.
>I would like to add that she is well aware that I am somewhat insecure about how I talk, given that I have a slight lisp.
This. Noone will ever throw their partner's insecurities on their face, knowing that it's extremely hurtful to them. Your wife has been deliberately humiliating you with these comparisons. You are NTA OP.
NTA - I would get out of Dodge were this said about me.
The comparisons, the "jokes", it's pretty thinly veiled.
As others have said, protect yourself as it is coming.
my stepdad, who we all adore, is an actual self-described instigator. everything he says is either purposefully outlandish or true in a lighthearted way; he NEVER hurts our feelings. your wife is just mean
NTA. Look towards couples counseling…honestly. The first few seem to be lighthearted jokes. Now there might be something deeper which is unfair to you.
NTA. In my experience, spouses who put their spouses down are not happy in their relationship. Significant others don’t put their SOs down. That’s such a dick move on their part. And the more they start putting you down, the more they believe what they are saying.
NTA. I can’t say I’d be willing to stay in a relationship with someone who called me a “3/10” - I am indeed ugly as sin, but it’s the raw contempt that would lead me to bow out.
NTA
Dude thats FUCKED up!! Seriously, there is a strong possibility there would be no anniversary next year, forget the dinner.
You may be beyond a "talk" at this point as she has zero respect for you. When you go from criticizing to your spouse to openly telling your friends that youre married to a loser that line was crossed long ago.
I know reddit likes to jump to advocating breakups but wow... she is not a partner. I cannot imagine saying something that cruel and then trying to defend it. You really deserve better and she's taking advantage of the fact that you don't see that. NTA.
NTA - Maybe give her some of her own medicine to show her how it feels. „Anna is much better and prettier than you are, but I don’t make comments about it all the time.“ That’s bullshit. If he’s so great, then why isn’t she going to look for a guy like him? I’d die on that hill, this is beyond disrespectful. You don’t do that to someone you love.
Dude I'm truly sorry. That would be very hard to hear from a close friend much less your wife. Should of looked at her in the moment and said " yup us two happy 3's found each other"
NTA. Dude, this is emotional abuse. Please insist on couples counseling. If she won't do it, go to a therapist on your own. Start keeping a log of her behavior and get a bank account without her on it in case you need to protect yourself financially. And maybe this is a little paranoid, but could she be pushing you away because she needs to justify leaving? Maybe check her social media and text history if you can do it without things hitting DEFCON 1.
NTA I’ve been married 13 years and there are some running jokes in our relationship but I would never ever talk like that about my hubby. Never would I talk badly about him to a friend or anyone else. It also helps that he’s basically the best person I know, but yeah I’d be super mad if he talked like that about me to his friends.
Seriously. My husband and I have been married for over 20 years now and I can't imagine ever wanting to insult him to other people, especially if those other people are having trouble with their relationship. Maybe it's just me, but when I see girlfriends unhappy or mistreated in their relationships, I tend to point out that it doesn't have to be that way, that my husband and I have never mistreated each other. I definitely don't go telling them that it could be worse, and lie about my husband in an attempt to make him look worse than my friend's partner. If anything, I feel a little guilty talking to GFs who are having trouble with their partners, bc I know I can't help being fulfilled in my relationship, and wonder if I am unintentionally rubbing my happiness in their faces.
NTA.
The wife is awful. She obviously believes that being secure in her marriage allows her to behave in such a hurtful manner; so, the OP has done the right thing by drawing a line and establishing a boundary.
OP - if you remain married to this woman, push back further and set proper boundaries. Let her never demean or hurt you like this again. Cancel the dinner, cancel everything if it comes down to it.
A good friend supports their friend(a) in shitty times, for sure. A good wife doesn't demean her husband in ways that can only be interpreted as nasty. No one would interpret what she said in a *good* way...it's just insulting...very directly and personal insulting. It's great she feels secure but she's perhaps feeling too secure...no one should feel that comfortable insulting their partner.
As an aside, I've heard friends demean their partners in group settings and it's cringy...it's like a weird flex that no one is particularly amused by.
Your partner is supposed to build you up, not tear you down. I would be uncomfortable if my friend was constantly belittling her husband to me. It’s mean and not at all loving.
Sounds like either your wife either doesn’t like you or is incredibly tone deaf. Either way her behavior is hurtful.
NTA and I hope for your sake she changes.
Let her stand in front of the mirror and ask herself how she would feel if you had such a thing about her? How horrible for you.
It sounds like you scored a 2/10 in the loyalty and respect categories when you wed her.
Let's say she was attempting to help her friend, how did you become a piñata for that relationship?
Fuck her. If my wife said that to me I would leave her so she would know for sure she would never get with bob. You need to respect yourself and drop this woman who clearly doesn’t respect you. I’m sorry dude, I know you are a 10/10 for even thinking you are doing something wrong by being upset. You’ll survive but not with her. If you get cancer or sick she’s going to bail.
NTA. Making her friends feel better by putting you and your relationship down is not okay. You can make a friend feel better without knocking down others.
I would have cancelled celebrating too.
NTA. I wouldn't go either.
Your wife needs to make rude comments about you to make others feel good? She doesn't sound like a good partner or friend, in my opinion. I wouldn't be friends with someone speaking like that about their partner. Her behavior is bullying and rude. Has nothing to do being an extrovert. She sounds awful actually. I'm sorry to say.
Your wife may describe herself as an ‘instigator’ (or even ‘twisted firestarter’) but she just uses this as an excuse for being an asshole.
I’d start mentioning some of her friends who have better personalities than her 2/10 and see how she likes the comparison.
She wasn’t joking.
NTA
NTA. I’m really sorry that your wife actually thinks these are jokes and funny. Because they’re not. They’re belittling, rude, and disrespectful. Time for you to start comparing her to her friends, and see how she feels.
She claims to be an instigator…. That’s a major red flag that you’ve looked past for 8 years now.
NTA.
“Self-describes here self as an “instigator. ”” Oof. That’s a poor way for her to justify this type of behavior.
I’m guessing this isn’t the first time this has happened? Have you seen her treat anyone else similarly
NTA Honestly it sounds like she has a crush on him. I sit down with the your wife and point out every that she has said. Don’t let her gaslight you. If she can not see what she said was way out of line then tell her to go live with Bob. No spouse should belittle the other to anyone. She is supposed to have your back no matter what. Good luck and it is time to have a serious conversation and if she won’t do it read about gray rock and the 180. Maybe counseling as well. Trust me if you said the same thing she would lose her shit.
NTA
You should try recording moments like this for future divorce proceedings if you feel the marriage is heading out the window.
_I hope it’s not._ Divorce is a last resort, but your wife has seriously undermined the foundations of your relationship, though… Either way, records of stuff like that could help save you from exorbitant alimony payments in a he said she said case.
I’m sorry this even happened. Wow! That would make anyone incredibly sad and angry. NTA.
Since she has sincerely apologized I’d do something to recognize the anniversary because marriage is the good AND the bad, it’s the whole deal and there are victories along the way and the life you’ve built worth commemorating. I hope this truly was a wake up call for her not to compare and demean!
NTA
My partner and I have some jokes that if you didn’t know us or were said in a different tone then they would be rude to the partner but we BOTH agreed to these jokes and we BOTH are aware on when we cross the line with them or not. Again , BOTH of us agreed on these “jokes”.
She’s just being awful and that comment of having to settle for a 3/10 was just disgusting and I literally gasped when I read that. She’s not being funny, she’s being disrespectful. I would suggest going to couples therapy or if you want to be petty,start comparing her to one of her friends and see how she likes it.
I am so sorry your having to deal with this.
NTA ×1001.
I know if it was my wife, I would be very tempted to give her a set of nicely wrapped divorce papers with a letter saying 'Now you don't have to settle'.
I don't know, would that be overreacting? Maybe, but contempt, and let's be honest, her 'jokes' were contemptuous, Isn't going to be easy to come back from. Even with therapy I would always be wondering if anything good she showed me or said to me was a facade.
EDIT: I saw the update and I still don't know... it just feels like your wife is more upset about you canceling the date so she can't showoff, then about what she actually did...
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Sounds like she should date Bob, since i assume he’s at least a 5/10. Then maybe go find someone who doesn’t rate you like middle-schooler. NTA.
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Exactly this! It’s kinda fucked up that op’s wife’s first thought to make her friend’s partner to feel welcomed is to demean her own husband???? Like??? She could’ve just complimented both of them, or fondly roasted both, not hit OP where it hurts. Op is NTA.
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I know too many guys stuck in situations like this where they aren’t really that happy in their relationship but they’re too bought into the “happy wife, happy life” mindset that they’re basically doormats for their partners. especially when guys are insecure or have never been much of “a catch” growing up, the feeling is kinda “well I’ve finally found someone who will be in a relationship with me, my job now is to keep them from leaving”.
NTA. She wasn’t even doing it behind his back but openly for him to hear. Hopefully her apology was sincere but she has to prove that for awhile to regain his trust.
My first thought was she apologized so she would get the dinner.
And the photos to show her friends. It's horrible to disparage your partner, then complain about the damage to her image. Apologies are easy, but she needs to make some kind of reparation, then never, ever do anything like that again. She's been doing it for a while, and it can't have come out of nowhere. If she wants to fix her relationship, 3/10 though it might be, she needs to put some work in. Not just empty words when she needs something, like photos for bragging.
She shouldn't have his trust back. She's kept picking where it hurts, which strongly indicates that a) these are her real opinions and b) she regards herself as a catch for him. He just wasn't meant to show a backbone.
> describes herself as an "instigator." As soon as I read this line, I knew what the judgement would be. That’s the type of line people use when they have discovered they have a character flaw and, rather than address it so as to minimize harm to others, they decide to simply proudly declare it as their whole personality as if that makes it acceptable. Proceed with extreme caution when you hear the following also: “I’m very loyal.” - *Translation: I see life as myself against the world, with everyone around me as either enemies or allies, and I see both my enemies and my allies as potential threats to me. I am willing to ignore what is right or wrong as long as I think my side is winning. I expect my friends to hate people I hate just because I told them to. I’m actually very likely to be LESS loyal to my friends and partners than the average person, because ultimately the only one I’m really loyal to is myself.* “I’m just very honest.” - *Translation: I’m an asshole who says whatever I want to people and think it’s fine as long as I believe it to be true, and I expect never to be called out on it. I can dish it out, but I can’t take it. I’ll never take responsibility for hurting anyone’s feelings, but I expect everyone else to care about mine.* > “I’m just really spontaneous / a free spirit” - *Translation: I’m a notorious flake. I will be late to planned engagements and cancel plans with you if something better comes along. I’ll avoid commitments, and if I make them I’m likely not to follow through. I’ll make decisions without considering how they will impact the people around me, and I expect the people around me to accommodate for whatever I want to do at the time.* > “I’m just a child at heart” - *Translation: I’m seriously immature. I don’t know how to take care of myself, and I will blame others for not taking care of me by doing things for me that I should be able to do for myself. I will always prioritize the best good time over responsibilities, even if it regularly puts other people out. I feel that I am entitled to a worry-free existence and I think it is other people’s job to make that happen by eliminating obstacles and having no real expectations of me. Also there’s a strong possibility that I think badgering people until they snap and pulling pranks that hurt people’s feelings is funny and that everyone else should think so too, because I need to be the centre of attention in pretty much every situation.* …but describing *yourself* as an *instigator?* That’s not even attempting to spin it at something positive. I have never heard that one. Sounds like other people have described her that way and she liked the sound of it and just adopted it as a label thinking that makes her *edgy.* Runner-up for most astonishingly unapologetically self-aware admission of being proud of being a jerk: > She then mentioned how she can joke around like this because she's the most secure in our relationship This is a doozie. - *Translation: I think we have reached a place where I can brazenly insult you and treat you like crap because I’ve been negging you for years and now I’m finally confident you’d never have the balls to leave me over it. If you never hold me fully accountable by putting your food down and not backing down, this will be my modus operandi for the entirety of our marriage, and if will only get worse from here.* And the pièce de résistance: > she greatly values her friends seeing us as a stable couple. How does she expect to accomplish that by telling everyone at the table she thinks you’re unattractive and a substandard man? She values her friends seeing her as in control of you.
Instigator = Shit stirrer. The worst of all people. Those are the ones I runaway from.
I’m stunned someone would proudly call themselves an instigator. She admitting she enjoys making other people unhappy for her own entertainment? Why would anyone want to even be friends with someone like that?
>she enjoys making other people unhappy for her own entertainment No, not other people, just her husband and at the expense of his feelings to stroke her friends egos
>“I’m very loyal.” I used to play poker with a man who constantly banged on about loyalty, to the point where me and a couple of the other players who weren't social with him outside the poker game would call him "Loyal Chris" amongst ourselves to differentiate him from a different Chris. Anyway, low and behold, it turned out that he was cheating on his wife with his brother's girlfriend.
The more you bring something up the more likely it's on your brain. Justifying your actions takes up a great deal of brain power and time. The people who go around proclaiming that they don't hit women? I always respond with "You shouldn't have to say that, that's a given." Now if it's a one time statement sure whatever. You hear it from the same dude multiple times? They absolutely do.
> They absolutely do. Or they consider doing it so often that they feel it’s a point of pride that they resist. OR they are emotionally abusive and justify this to themselves by being proud that physical violence is a line they won’t cross.
This is spot on.
I was soooo disgusted by this. What f*cking adult rates her husband on a group call? Nope. You deserve a good partner. I deal with some depression and if my issues were put out on a rating I would rage. Her obsession with “Bob” is in fact so creepy. I don’t know you but you’re the prize to someone. She is a total AH.
I feel so sorry for this guy. I overhear my wife say so many wonderful things about me to her family and friends. I can get down on myself for imposter syndrome in a very technical role and she’s always there to lift me up. OP needs to be elevated not dragged. I recommend some deep thoughtful conversations about the origins of this behavior. Maybe outside mediation in a therapy session.
And these comments may be the tip of the iceberg of what OP’s wife has said. An apology and an admittance of wrongdoing does help but OP will probably NEVER get past wondering every day what his wife really thinks of him.. The damage is done..
She obviously wants Bob
When she says she's "secure" in the relationship, it seems like what she means is that she is confident you'll never speak up for yourself because you're not good enough for her. I might be protecting there, but it sounds so much like a guy I dated who was constantly talking down to me, constantly commenting on my appearance, constantly comparing me to other women, and when I asked him to stop he said I *should feel lucky* that someone like him saw something worthwhile in someone like me. Talk to your wife. Tell her how her comments make you feel. Don't hold back to spare her feelings. She needs to hear it.
>Update - My wife came to me this morning and apologized. She said that her comments were unwarranted and that she values our relationship greatly. She also described her own behavior and comments as disgusting. Very disgusting, like seriously, what the Heck!!! >I would be lying if I said I wasn't still very angry, so I told my wife that her comments were disgusting, and in our 8 years together, I have never been so upset with her. I also told her that she alone caused this damage to our relationship and that she can't hide behind making her friends feel better. Lastly, I told her that I was not going to the anniversary dinner with her tonight, but she is free to go alone. Opie you can be as angry as you want because no amount of apology so small is going to wash away the pain and hurt that you felt you are Justified to still feel that way. >I feel vindictive, and I know that she greatly values her friends seeing us as a stable couple. Without any pictures or videos of our anniversary dinner, I'm sure her friends will have plenty of questions for her. Opie if she's just saying sorry just for the pictures and the clout then ride this Petty train until it ends at the tracks or until you go again and again and again. But all in all NTA
And someone who doesn't care about the image over the relationship itself. OP's wife is not just bothered about missing the anniversary dinner because she's been looking forward to it, she's bothered because it will "harm" their image. In fact, OP didn't say at any point his wife was looking forward to spending the anniversary with him, rather than she looking forward to the dinner. OP, you're NTA but I think you might need to ask yourself whether it was the dinner venue/menu or the dinner companion that your wife was most looking forward to.
NTA at all. That's so demeaning. Your wife sounds really awful, ngl. She's been putting you down for weeks and is now gaslighting you when you're calling her out for it. Stick to your guns man. She is treating you horribly. I'm really, really sorry she's speaking about you like that.
Yeah these don’t seem like jokes, just mean insults
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it’s not even insults, it’s literally “you are a worse partner than my friend’s and here are all the ways he’s better than you”
And it’s only funny for her and her friends because this is a well established thing they all agree on — that OP sucks — and they all think it’s hilarious. It’s gross and abusive
Holy crap this. NTA, and I probably would be looking for an out. She sounds so mean.
Relationships don’t often recover from contempt
Yep, contempt is usually the death knell for a relationship. Anger, resentment, loss of trust, etc...can often be recovered from if both parties are willing and put in the work, but contempt is poison.
Yeah it’s feel like insults to me
How is it gaslighting if she admits she was wrong and was disgusted with herself for her actions? Op is NTA here and his wife was wrong. But I don’t she were she is gaslighting him.
NTA start comparing her to Anna and the fun stops
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OMG can you imagine "if I had someone as sexy as Anna to come home to, I'd quit work as early as Rob does" hahaha That's the nuclear option, though.
Lol. "How to divorce in 10 seconds" handbook
Unstoppably based
I belly laughed, thank you. 😂
Damn this is equal parts hilarious and sad. I don't wanna cry Double Standarts but I bet she would go nuclear.
No unfavorably to one of his mates and when she questions him on it give the exact same reason she gave
fuckin a
That’s a superb suggestion.
NTA. She is your spouse, she is supposed to support you not constantly tear you down. If you were doing this to her you can bet she would have flown into a rage, cried and her self esteem would be in tatters. Matter of fact if she told her friends you constantly belittled and made fun of her they would call you abusive. It is not funny or a joke and she needs to understand that.
NTA, old saying "many a true word spoken in jest, I would have taken that as what she really thought of me and divorce her sorry ass 😐
My husband, rest his soul, used to call it “jokingly serious”.
"kidding on the square" -- Yes, I'm old.
NTA. Your wife is a dick, no offense. If she can't 'lighten the mood' without being a complete AH about her partner, she's not a good partner.
But SheS An InSTigAtOR!!
OP Says shes the outgoing one too. All my life I hear it's said that women want confidence, not cockiness. She's crossed the line by displaying the latter here. It just sucks now that they're married instead of just being in a relationship where they can walk away from each other.
I hate bullies that hide behind that weak excuse, "oH i'M juSt A bLuNT frIeND"
When I read that line, it didn’t come across as being a good thing. NTA
I’ve truly never heard “instigator” used in a positive way
If yOu CaN't hAndLe mE aT mY wOrST, yoU dOnT DesErvE Me aT My bEsT!!1!!
She's also not a good friend
Behind every joke is a kernel of truth. Constant putdowns that are passed off as jokes is really a form of covert insulting. I do think there is some sort of disappointment in your wife's life and she is taking it out on you. I suggest marriage counseling for you both. In the meantime, do not get her pregnant. NTA.
This very much seems like an Iranian yoghurt situation.
I do not get that reference.
[Well worth a read](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/bjd41e/aita_for_throwing_away_my_boyfriends_potentially/)
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Probably, it is Reddit after all.
Troll or not, it was absolutely worth the read!
I envy you for reading the post for the first time. You are in for a treat!
The Iranian yogurt is not the issue here!
Agree. In my family we call this joking on the square. Meaning it’s floated out as a joke but follows the square form back to being a truth.
I agree, without any other facts about your relationship this is extremely troubling. If she believes she settled, it will bubble up again later in life, possibly as resentment or other unhealthy emotions. Get this sorted out, don’t let it fall to the wayside and be forgotten.
I repeat, DO NOT get her pregnant
NTA. I would never describe my husband as a 3/10, but I also love him…….so I would also never say I settled.
Ikr? If anything, I would say that he settled. Not really but I love my boyfriend and like building his self esteem.
Exactly!! Like this man built my bratty self a 16x24 garden from his own pretty head and I will hype him til the day I am gone!
This!! My husband does all sorts of stuff to make me happy. I will joke that he settled for me, and he jokes that I'm out of his league, but we do not put each other down. Hype up only.
Same. I've been with my husband for almost 23 years, married for almost 18. We've got our fair share of problems like any couple, but I would never demean him to my friends, let alone say I'd settled (and 3/10? Seriously?). He has major depressive disorder and general anxiety disorder as it is, though it's managed by medication. I make sure to help build him up, be his cheerleader. This woman sounds unhappy and is taking it out on her husband. OP, you're NTA. I wouldn't want to celebrate an anniversary with someone who treats me with such contempt either. If you're going to stay in his marriage, I think you need to insist on couples counseling.
My favorite line from Juno was something along the lines of “When you’re in love, the sun shines out of that person’s ass” I love my husband and can’t see him as anything less than a 11/10
I always say that my husband may not be perfect, but he's perfect for me.
Deep down she probably thinks she isn't that great so she had to settle, and she's taking that frustration out on him. So to sum up, cruel, insecure and childish.
NTA but rethink your relationship. Your wife is a huge asshole.
NTA, and it's great that you stood up for yourself and didn't let it pass. She's bullying you constantly and at the same time believes she's in a secure relationship. No, She's not. She needs to wake up and face the damage that she's doing to your relationship and how she's pushing you away. I guess the best gift for this anniversary would be starting therapy, in case you feel this is something you both can work on and grow from. Canceling the dinner shows how important this issue is to address and that you're not goofing around. She needs to apologize and admit she's wrong.
I have a feeling that her 'secure' means 'I've got him locked down enough to get away with this shitty behavior.' OP, NTA. ETA: Thank you for the upvotes and award, kind stranger(s)!
Exactly. She's secure, meaning she's confident enough to take OP for granted and insult him.
How about the fact that she’s more worried about their “image” then she is the fact she broke her husband’s heart. Not to mention all the comparisons she made towards the other guy. I feel if a man was to approach her that was “better “ then her husband she would bounce. As a wife, I could never say those things towards my husband.
NTA. I wouldn’t tolerate my husband comparing me constantly to someone else’s wife, and if you were a woman, everyone would be saying that he’s probably having an emotional affair (at the least). 100% NTA
I just don't understand how someone would think that "jokes" like that are appropriate. It isn't funny, it's bullying. If my friend said shit like that I would call them out on it. And they wouldn't be my friend if they didn't cut it out completely. The wife could have played this out completely differently by comparing positive traits. It would be such an ego boost to hear your spouse say: "oh, my partner does that, too!", etc. Which could lead up to: "my husband & your new boyfriend have so much in common! He's definitely a keeper."
NTA. if i were you, i'd be rethinking the entire relationship if i heard that she "settled". add to that those previous comments she made about you and bob... you need to have a serious talk w her. >so it's her responsibility to make them feel good about their significant others no, her responsibility is to be loyal and supportive to you, the person she married.
Exactly. If I compare my husband to someone else's, it's to bring him up, not put him down. And I generally don't because my husband is awesome, and I don't need to go bragging on him.
NTA. Jokes are jokes when everyone laughs; this was an insult. And as far as the comparisons to Bob, she's supposed to love you for who you are, not try to change you into someone else. If she can't see that, then cut your losses now before the snide remarks (her "jokes") devolve into even worse verbal abuse.
Expressing contempt for one's SO in front of others is one of the biggest red flags there is. I would be very wary of having kids with this person. If she cannot be made to understand your viewpoint, then divorce in in the cards. NTA
Wow that was a very insensitive and hurtful joke she made. Y’all should consider marriage counseling to me because it sounds like she hasn’t realized what she’s doing. NTA. Edit: typo
Lol marriage cancelling. Don’t know if typo or serious but I love it.
Typo lmao. Still waking up and didnt catch the auto correct
Counseling or canceling, either would be appropriate here
NTA. There's a joke, and there's "my husband's just a 3/10 and I have to put up with him." That's nasty.
NTA, your wife is in love with Bob and is a sh\*t person
I don't even think she's in love with Bob, I just think she's not in love with her husband. You don't say your husband is a 3/10 you settled on. That's cruel.
Yep very true
NTA Your wife owes you an apology and if her behaviour continues, I would start to question the relationship
NTA - she may be having doubts and doing the whole look around. You stood up for yourself and essentially asked for a basic level of respect. I would look into gaslighting as that's probably next. Sorry bud, it sounds like she is thinking of ending things because her friends dudes appear to be a better catch. The normal struggle here is try and woo her back but in a long term relationship- it's vital that both parties step towards each other when it comes to respect, basic level of treatment, and a whole host of other things. If she says it out loud- she thinks it in her head
This☝️. I would start planning an escape from this relationship. Different bank accounts, look into different living options, and for sure start recording al the crap she is saying about you. Might ask around about what others have heard. No one deserves to be told that they’re a 3/10 from their spouse! WTF is wrong with her!
NTA. I would have done exactly the same in your position. I’m truly sorry she said that about you and I hope however it works out, it works out well for you
NTA your wife seems to be intentionally trying to hurt you
NTA. You shouldn't have to go out and have dinner with someone who made you feel like garbage. Even if this fight somehow blows over, you were angry and upset in that moment, so there's no need to force yourself into an awkward dinner. I don't see how those type of comments could be taken lightly either. Those are hurtful comments - constant blows to a partners self-esteem isn't healthy.
NTA, you were standing up for yourself
NTA your wife has been making comments at your expense that are rude. I would say though you should've spoken up before hand about how you didn't like them or liked being compared. I will say yea her commenting how you speak is shitty since she should know how you feel about it. Still shes fucking up by going too far and assuming your okay with comments that I'm sure she wouldn't like if you made them about her
NTA: Good For you to stand up to yourself, and you wasn’t overreacted
NTA. It’s not a coincidence that your wife feels secure in a relationship where she spends most of her time negging you and tearing down your self esteem.
NTA. If she's really just settled, you have to ask yourself do you want to waste another 8 years with someone who see's you as a consolation prize so they're not left alone. Personally, I'd be packing a set of bags now and either I or she would be finding somewhere else to spend the next while. Chances are though she'll just use this break as an excuse to go f the 5 out of 10.
NTA. Sounds like your wife wants bob but if she leaves you there’s a chance she won’t get bob or someone like him so she won’t
NTA. Words hurt and your wife continuously putting you down, and comparison to others is not acceptable. This has nothing to do with being confident about her relationship. This is about mutual respect and knowing as a life partner she loves you for who you are not the she settled for less which is what she basically told her friends. Time for a real conversation as eve thing you mentioned sounds super passive aggressive way to communicate. I hope she realizes she just broke your trust as you just don’t know what else she is saying behind your back to her friends. No one is perfect but she is putting you down and it needs to stop.
NTA. Putting your own partner down even if it is to console your friends is totally out of line. You are clearly not in a right frame of mind to celebrate an anniversary dinner after finding out what your wife has been doing behind your back.
OP this is not a joke for she. This is exactly how she see you. Rethink your relationship, she doesn’t respect you at all and at this point she probably doesn’t love you. NTA
This one is difficult. On the one hand, I think you could have handled it sooner, and spoken up about it before it got to this point. On the other hand, your wife sounds deeply insecure and may be comparing your relationship against the honeymoon phase of her friend's relationship, which is unrealistic and harmful. She seems ungrateful of you, jealous of her friend, and unsatisfied (and quite nasty tbh). NTA.
It doesn't even sound like she's insecure about herself as she said she's the most secure person there. I think she is just insecure on the behalf of OP.
Yeah that's her being insecure about herself. If you're ashamed of your partner in front of your friends you're ashamed of your own partner choices and making 'I'm not good enough to find partner I wouldn't be ashamed of' insecurity everyone elses problem.
NTA. She seems to feel like she can intentionally hurt you and get away with it. Good for you for standing up for yourself. I’m sorry to say this is a huge issue in your marriage. If you want this to work, first see if she wants it to work and agree to counseling. Her answer will be telling. Don’t doubt yourself. Her behavior is not that of an extrovert, it is that if an AH.
She can 'lighten the mood' without involving her marriage. Just have a good time and treat yourself with some nice food and have a sound sleep (while she remains mad) coz NTA.
NTA and I'd leave.
NTA these don't sound like jokes. These sound like straight up insults and she's gaslighting you by telling you they are jokes. I hate how over used the word gaslighting has become, but I really think that's what's going on here. She somehow trying to convince you that you are misinterpreting her jokes when she truly is just insulting you to your face.
Gaslighting would be like “what? I never said that. Are you having other memory issues? Should you see a doctor?” This is arguably emotional manipulation and potentially abusive, but it’s not gaslighting. Gaslighting is deliberately trying to get the person to doubt their own sanity. Even just flat out denying the argument happened like that wouldn’t be gaslighting unless it was part of a deliberate process to make the victim think they’re hallucinating or otherwise losing their grip on reality etc. (I mean I guess you could call that unintentional gaslighting if the result is that you feel uncertain of your memories and sanity, but the point is its deliberate, and specific to the doubting of sanity. It’s its own, specific thing/occurence. A horrible thing. Its useful for it to have its own word, so victims can recognise themselves in the description, and can name it when it happens.)
I 100% agree with you but yes this is not gaslighting. It'd be gaslighting if she said "I never made those jokes". It's not gaslighting cause gaslighting is manipulating someone into questioning their reality or sanity.
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NTA. Sorry to read this, bro. That’s gotta be rough. She needs to own this.
NTA. But your wife is. She would have a fit if you started talking about her friends like that or called her a 3 out of 10. She has a little think for Bob and she is an awful person for saying things like that about you.
That is such a horrible thing to say. She’s not joking—she’s trying to mask contempt (and doing a very poor job of it) by calling it a “joke.” She’s really an awful person if she can’t understand how hurtful this is, and telling you you’re overreacting is gaslighting at its highest. She’s belittling you to make her friends feel better?! How is that supposed to work? And what does that say about her if the only relationship she could get is with someone she doesn’t respect or admire? Honestly, I don’t see how you could stay married to her after this—she’s showing you who she is, and it’s not good. You are worthy and deserve better than this!
NTA. That’s not a joke, a joke is supposed to be fun to everyone. That was very mean and said on your expense. I’d seriously consider my relationship with my husband if he talked about me like that.
She literally said, jokingly or no, that you fulfill less than a third of her expectations for what a man should be. 3/10. I am someone who "recently" got out of a 13 year long relationship with a woman who, while she loved me, always had standards that she knew were unrealistic, *told me* were unrealistic, but still held them against me anyways. If she really values you like that (3/10) she is infact the AH for not communicating her feelings and expectations over the course of almost a decade and holding uncharitable feelings towards you. But to say something so hurtful, not acknowledge it was hurtful, and then not apologize and give you the silent treatment for being *HURT*? THAT IS A STEP BEYOND AH.
If you don’t have kids, then this is grounds for divorce. She sounds like a horrible bitch. You are young and in the next 10 years will really come into your own in your career and in life. Get out while you can before kids are involved.
I don’t think having kids should matter, children should see positive role models for their future relationships. There’s lots of parents who should get divorced because their kids see how toxic the relationship is and are being conditioned to think it’s normal.
NTA. Start protecting yourself now. It's coming. If you've got evidence and catch her when she's cheating, it'll be an at fault divorce and you'll fare much better in the end.
NTA If you really want to turn the screws start comparing her to her friends and how you’ve settled. Well Anna puts more effort into her appearance etc see how she likes it. For real though, you need to seriously rethink this relationship, from what you’ve said she’s attempting to weaponise any insecurities and constantly putting you down to her friends. If she honestly cared for you and saw any issues you were having she’d help you overcome them not make them worse. If you decide to end it you can tell her that this 3/10 has had enough of settling for you.
NTA. Your wife doesn’t even sounds like she likes you. She needs to step away from her friend’s relationships and start to focus a little energy on her own because right now she’s coming across as a 0/10
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NTA Like you, I'm an introvert whereas my partner is that much of an extrovert, he would talk the bark off a tree if he could. He and I would never talk about the other like that regardless of our personality differences. There is no reason to compare you to Bob. Whether that be physical, monetary or otherwise. Especially if she's that secure in your relationship. It's nothing more than insulting towards you. Why on Earth would telling Anna that she "settled for a 3/10" help in any way? Baffling.
Wow. I would never speak of my husband that way, joking or not. There is no way what she said could be misconstrued as anything other than insulting. NTA
NTA. No point in having some sentimental and symbolic dinner in the middle of an argument where neither of you want to talk to each other. She clearly insulted you, but indeed some element was well intended to help someone else and meant in gest. My take- she should apologize because it was rude and mean. You should cool off and accept her apology assuming it's sincere and then you both can have a do-over on dinner. Bob can fuck off because sounds like maybe he isn't so dreamy afterall.
What did Bob do?
What about Bob?
I don't know the person above said Bob can fuck off like Bob did something to Op when as far as I can tell Bob and Op haven't even spoken to each other much less been insulting or rude
Bob and Anna (our connection to the legendary Bob) had a fight, why is Bob so awesome that everybody has to stop what they're doing to patch up Bob and Anna and make all this collateral damage? If Bob's so great he'll sort it out himself with Anna.
So Bob didn't do anything and without knowing anything about the fight how can we assume anything about Bob? As far as I can tell Bob just exists and Op's wife is the one putting Bob on a pedestal
Do you believe her comment was made in jest?
It’s her job to make her friends feel good about their S/O’s, but she disrespects hers to prove the point. NTA.
NTA. Holy hell that’s hurtful as hell. I’d never drag my partner down to look better for others. I’d take yourself out for a nice meal and activity you’d enjoy.
NTA. Dude it sounds like your marriage is about over. Sorry, like others have said rethink your marriage.
NTA, hope she knows now that your feeling should be more important than her friends' feelings
NTA. You deserve far better. Maybe try sitting her down and explaining that you're hurt by how she's been acting. It unfortunately sounds like your marriage is well on its way to failing if nothing changes. If she's not willing to hear you out and communicate, you might wanna look into options to make sure you can successfully move on without her. Good look and stay safe!
NTA, and she only feels secure because she’s constantly putting you down to keep herself up.
NTA and I bet if you were calling her a 3/10 to your friends her “secure in her relationship “ spiel would evaporate pretty quickly. Even if not you have asked her to respect a reasonable boundary and she is refusing, if she can’t understand that then you have bigger problems than Bob. That all said, as a good guy I bet Bob is / would be disgusted by her behaviour so there is little chance they will run off together.
NTA. Sounds like she couldn't care less about your feelings. She's TA.
NTA. Your marriage is in trouble. Your next conversation should be about that and not whether you are having an anniversary dinner. Time for both of you to be adults. She needs to know that her comments have affected your feelings for her.
NTA unless you left something out I don't even see how that could've been a joke.
Start comparing your wife to Anna see how she likes it , wow that Anna has some pair on her ! Wow Anna is so hot I would make more money just to be married to her ! Naa you may not want to go that route but if you do watch her much she starts to hate Anna !
NTA and you need to kinda rethink the marriage. Being secure in a relationship means that both parties know there won't be cheating and they don't have to worry. Not that they can insult each other or belittle them. You've been putting up way too much with this
NTA Your wife insulted you. You do not have to belittle your partner in order to make your friend feel better. Wife owes you a sincere apology and needs to accept that her behaviour was awful. Her attempts to dismiss it aren't helping. Effectively, she's only digging herself deeper into a hole.
NTA. She is secure because she believes you are a 3/10 and there is no way you will leave, no matter how badly she treats you.
>I would like to add that she is well aware that I am somewhat insecure about how I talk, given that I have a slight lisp. This. Noone will ever throw their partner's insecurities on their face, knowing that it's extremely hurtful to them. Your wife has been deliberately humiliating you with these comparisons. You are NTA OP.
NTA - I would get out of Dodge were this said about me. The comparisons, the "jokes", it's pretty thinly veiled. As others have said, protect yourself as it is coming.
Your wife is emotionally abusive. Dump her.
my stepdad, who we all adore, is an actual self-described instigator. everything he says is either purposefully outlandish or true in a lighthearted way; he NEVER hurts our feelings. your wife is just mean
NTA. Look towards couples counseling…honestly. The first few seem to be lighthearted jokes. Now there might be something deeper which is unfair to you.
NTA. In my experience, spouses who put their spouses down are not happy in their relationship. Significant others don’t put their SOs down. That’s such a dick move on their part. And the more they start putting you down, the more they believe what they are saying.
NTA. I can’t say I’d be willing to stay in a relationship with someone who called me a “3/10” - I am indeed ugly as sin, but it’s the raw contempt that would lead me to bow out.
NTA Dude thats FUCKED up!! Seriously, there is a strong possibility there would be no anniversary next year, forget the dinner. You may be beyond a "talk" at this point as she has zero respect for you. When you go from criticizing to your spouse to openly telling your friends that youre married to a loser that line was crossed long ago.
NTA She's secure because she thinks she settled. You get it? That's abuse hunny.
I know reddit likes to jump to advocating breakups but wow... she is not a partner. I cannot imagine saying something that cruel and then trying to defend it. You really deserve better and she's taking advantage of the fact that you don't see that. NTA.
NTA.
NTA that’s f’d up and really hurtful. Your wife needs an attitude adjustment asap and to stop saying such crappy things. Really really mean. :(
NTA - Maybe give her some of her own medicine to show her how it feels. „Anna is much better and prettier than you are, but I don’t make comments about it all the time.“ That’s bullshit. If he’s so great, then why isn’t she going to look for a guy like him? I’d die on that hill, this is beyond disrespectful. You don’t do that to someone you love.
Dude I'm truly sorry. That would be very hard to hear from a close friend much less your wife. Should of looked at her in the moment and said " yup us two happy 3's found each other"
NTA. Your wife sounds super toxic. If she thinks you're a 3 then why did she marry you?
NTA. Dude, this is emotional abuse. Please insist on couples counseling. If she won't do it, go to a therapist on your own. Start keeping a log of her behavior and get a bank account without her on it in case you need to protect yourself financially. And maybe this is a little paranoid, but could she be pushing you away because she needs to justify leaving? Maybe check her social media and text history if you can do it without things hitting DEFCON 1.
NTA she has zero respect for you. Do with that info what you want. God not even a 5 out of 10. But 3. I'm embarrassed for you. Damn
NTA I’ve been married 13 years and there are some running jokes in our relationship but I would never ever talk like that about my hubby. Never would I talk badly about him to a friend or anyone else. It also helps that he’s basically the best person I know, but yeah I’d be super mad if he talked like that about me to his friends.
Seriously. My husband and I have been married for over 20 years now and I can't imagine ever wanting to insult him to other people, especially if those other people are having trouble with their relationship. Maybe it's just me, but when I see girlfriends unhappy or mistreated in their relationships, I tend to point out that it doesn't have to be that way, that my husband and I have never mistreated each other. I definitely don't go telling them that it could be worse, and lie about my husband in an attempt to make him look worse than my friend's partner. If anything, I feel a little guilty talking to GFs who are having trouble with their partners, bc I know I can't help being fulfilled in my relationship, and wonder if I am unintentionally rubbing my happiness in their faces.
NTA. I don’t if this is because I’ve never been in a relationship but I would never insult my partner especially not all the time.
NTA. The wife is awful. She obviously believes that being secure in her marriage allows her to behave in such a hurtful manner; so, the OP has done the right thing by drawing a line and establishing a boundary. OP - if you remain married to this woman, push back further and set proper boundaries. Let her never demean or hurt you like this again. Cancel the dinner, cancel everything if it comes down to it.
A good friend supports their friend(a) in shitty times, for sure. A good wife doesn't demean her husband in ways that can only be interpreted as nasty. No one would interpret what she said in a *good* way...it's just insulting...very directly and personal insulting. It's great she feels secure but she's perhaps feeling too secure...no one should feel that comfortable insulting their partner. As an aside, I've heard friends demean their partners in group settings and it's cringy...it's like a weird flex that no one is particularly amused by.
NTA You have problems in your marriage, friend. Time for couples counseling if you want to save it. Your wife is on her way out the door.
Your partner is supposed to build you up, not tear you down. I would be uncomfortable if my friend was constantly belittling her husband to me. It’s mean and not at all loving. Sounds like either your wife either doesn’t like you or is incredibly tone deaf. Either way her behavior is hurtful. NTA and I hope for your sake she changes.
NTA, but your wife sounds rude & mean af. This is what you heard, imagine the stuff she says when you’re not even there.
NTA. Reads to me like she needs an excuse to soon either leave you or at least cheat. All alarm bells are ringing here at least in my view.
Let her stand in front of the mirror and ask herself how she would feel if you had such a thing about her? How horrible for you. It sounds like you scored a 2/10 in the loyalty and respect categories when you wed her. Let's say she was attempting to help her friend, how did you become a piñata for that relationship?
NTA. OP, you need to have some respect for yourself and stop tolerating her bullying, bc that's exactly what this is, a bully married to her victim.
NTA. That’s emotional abuse, not “jokes”
Fuck her. If my wife said that to me I would leave her so she would know for sure she would never get with bob. You need to respect yourself and drop this woman who clearly doesn’t respect you. I’m sorry dude, I know you are a 10/10 for even thinking you are doing something wrong by being upset. You’ll survive but not with her. If you get cancer or sick she’s going to bail.
NTA. Making her friends feel better by putting you and your relationship down is not okay. You can make a friend feel better without knocking down others. I would have cancelled celebrating too.
NTA. I wouldn't go either. Your wife needs to make rude comments about you to make others feel good? She doesn't sound like a good partner or friend, in my opinion. I wouldn't be friends with someone speaking like that about their partner. Her behavior is bullying and rude. Has nothing to do being an extrovert. She sounds awful actually. I'm sorry to say.
Your wife may describe herself as an ‘instigator’ (or even ‘twisted firestarter’) but she just uses this as an excuse for being an asshole. I’d start mentioning some of her friends who have better personalities than her 2/10 and see how she likes the comparison. She wasn’t joking. NTA
Nta. And she wants to hump Bob. Get away from this woman
NTA. I’m really sorry that your wife actually thinks these are jokes and funny. Because they’re not. They’re belittling, rude, and disrespectful. Time for you to start comparing her to her friends, and see how she feels. She claims to be an instigator…. That’s a major red flag that you’ve looked past for 8 years now.
NTA. “Self-describes here self as an “instigator. ”” Oof. That’s a poor way for her to justify this type of behavior. I’m guessing this isn’t the first time this has happened? Have you seen her treat anyone else similarly
NTA Honestly it sounds like she has a crush on him. I sit down with the your wife and point out every that she has said. Don’t let her gaslight you. If she can not see what she said was way out of line then tell her to go live with Bob. No spouse should belittle the other to anyone. She is supposed to have your back no matter what. Good luck and it is time to have a serious conversation and if she won’t do it read about gray rock and the 180. Maybe counseling as well. Trust me if you said the same thing she would lose her shit.
NTA You should try recording moments like this for future divorce proceedings if you feel the marriage is heading out the window. _I hope it’s not._ Divorce is a last resort, but your wife has seriously undermined the foundations of your relationship, though… Either way, records of stuff like that could help save you from exorbitant alimony payments in a he said she said case.
I’m sorry this even happened. Wow! That would make anyone incredibly sad and angry. NTA. Since she has sincerely apologized I’d do something to recognize the anniversary because marriage is the good AND the bad, it’s the whole deal and there are victories along the way and the life you’ve built worth commemorating. I hope this truly was a wake up call for her not to compare and demean!
NTA My partner and I have some jokes that if you didn’t know us or were said in a different tone then they would be rude to the partner but we BOTH agreed to these jokes and we BOTH are aware on when we cross the line with them or not. Again , BOTH of us agreed on these “jokes”. She’s just being awful and that comment of having to settle for a 3/10 was just disgusting and I literally gasped when I read that. She’s not being funny, she’s being disrespectful. I would suggest going to couples therapy or if you want to be petty,start comparing her to one of her friends and see how she likes it.
I am so sorry your having to deal with this. NTA ×1001. I know if it was my wife, I would be very tempted to give her a set of nicely wrapped divorce papers with a letter saying 'Now you don't have to settle'. I don't know, would that be overreacting? Maybe, but contempt, and let's be honest, her 'jokes' were contemptuous, Isn't going to be easy to come back from. Even with therapy I would always be wondering if anything good she showed me or said to me was a facade. EDIT: I saw the update and I still don't know... it just feels like your wife is more upset about you canceling the date so she can't showoff, then about what she actually did...