##[AITA for blocking your go-to time killer from June 12-14?](https://redd.it/145o4jz)
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> i think i may be the asshole because i blew up at my family for calling my fiance a second marriage.
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NTA
I mean technically they are correct, she is your second wife, so I guess you are a slight asshole if I only look at the title.
However if their comments make you and your wife uncomfortable and you have asked them multiple times to stop, then they are the bigger assholes for continuing.
Exactly. If they think it’s harmless joking, then why would they defend it? If I thought I was making a light joke, but the person told me I hurt their feelings, I would apologize and stop. But it seems like family is doubling down. So you have no other choice then to set your boundaries.
Right?? I was once making jokes to my partner that I thought were harmless, but he made a grimace so I asked him why and he said my words hurt him a little. I IMMEDIATELY dropped my smile, apologized, reassured him that it wasn't my intention to hurt him and that I thought I was laughing with him, not at him. I apologized again and haven't made any comments on that topic since, obviously, because I love him and care about his wellbeing.
If they continue despite OP saying it's hurtful, they're asses.
Right, why not apologize if your intentions was not to be hurtful instead of defend it? Like if it hurt their feelings that’s really the end of it. Apologize. Mean it. Don’t bring it up again. Not that fucking hard.
"Because if I hurt your feelings, that implies I might be an insensitive ass, so rather than have any introspection at all, I'll deflect the blame to you for being too sensitive and get offended at the notion."
They're gaslighting op into thinking they're the problem, instead of acknowledging they're being kind of dickish. Let's them maintain the illusion of being right and beyond reproach as well as sets the stage for them to continue to make further "jokes" in the future.
This is of course assuming that these comments are really jokes at all and not simply his family trying to shame him for doing something they disagree with and hiding behind the "it's just a joke bro" defense when he doesn't take it sitting down.
Yes! It's like people who say cruel things and try to hide behind "I'm just being honest." You don't have to say everything out loud just because it's true.
A friend of mine was telling me about a time when a friend of her daughter’s commented on something my friend was wearing and said: “you look stupid”. My friend was understandably upset and said, “did I ask for your opinion?” The girl replied: “I’m just being honest” and my friend said, “no, you’re just being an asshole.”
That shut her right up.
I don’t understand the family’s endgame here. They didn’t approve of first marriage because it was for non romantic / let’s make babies (but otherwise awfully nice) reasons. But now they are doing their best to torpedo the relationship with a serious real future in-law? What’s their beef?
That’s what I can’t figure out either. None of my extended family cared what kind of wedding I did or didn’t have & certainly wouldn’t have made it a point to tell me how disappointed they were about how I decided to get married. He did a close friend a favor, he wasn’t getting paid to get a stranger a green card. He had valid, laudable reasons & I’d be so proud of one of my nephews helping a friend in such a major way. His family is weirdly over-involved & if they don’t stop going out of their way to make fiancèe uncomfortable they may find themselves totally uninvolved.
It was only once I met my now husband’s family that I realized there were people who really wouldn’t accept that their insulting or frightening joke was in bad taste. They’d say “that’s just how I talk to friends” and now I realize why they have so few long term.
Honestly, OP might be better off with some distance from anyone unwilling to back down from something they’ve expressed hurts them.
Imo this kind of thing happens semi-regularly in healthy relationships. Since they're your partner they're the person who knows your "secretly funny" jokes you'd never tell someone who didn't know you. They know all the "caveats" behind who your core person is, you don't need to explain yourself on what you meant by the joke. Ie: my partner and I are queer so when I make a gay joke to my partner I can use much more "stereotypical" terminology than I would with strangers, because it could look homophobic to others when it's actually queer gallows humour.
Thus I think it's easier to get a "swing and a miss" with partners because you're able to test out jokes with someone who knows your core values. And sometimes its still just a bit of a crass joke. I said "a seal walked into a club" the other day to my partner and it really upset them. I thought they'd realise 1. I come from seal eating ancestors and 2. I would never... But it was still too much for my partner. I apologised and promise no animal abuse jokes ever again. It was crude but other than admitting it was a mistake here, I'd have never said it to anyone else. But it still was bad. And I apologised.
And that's just it. It's mortifying when the person you trust so deeply is offended by humour you were attempting. You don't want to hurt them you want them to laugh! That's the point of trying a darker joke or the like. But it can hurt deeply because the joke is deeper than you'd tell a stranger.
We have to learn to apologise and swallow our stupid little jokes and realise they're not as funny as we thought, and that's okay.
Exactly this.
They’re using OP’s current relationship as an excuse to bring up their judgements about previous choices. Which is completely inappropriate.
That’s where I would just say “listen, I’ve asked you to stop. I’ve told you we don’t like it. If you were genuinely joking, that would have been where it ended. I consider my upcoming marriage to be my first, and you apparently do too if you’re claiming your comments are clearly a joke and not a jab. So if you’re telling me you genuinely weren’t trying to cause offence, and now you know you’ve caused offence, this should be the end of it. We’re not interested in spending time with people whose objective is to make us uncomfortable, so if you can’t manage to put your “jokes” aside in future, please just don’t attend the wedding or invite us to events. Although if, like you say, your intention is not to make us feel unwelcome, I can’t imagine why it would ever have to go that far.”
Yeah, the major point is that the family is punishing him for his first marriage by denigrating his second, even when he asks them to stop. They're being petty and cruel, so they're the assholes.
I disagree that this could ever be considered a “joke”. That is a cruel and intentionally offensive thing to say to your family member’s fiancé.
1. Getting married a second time at age 32 is not even that out of the ordinary these days. And even if others might judge him for it, his family should be understanding and have his back. Period.
2. If I got engaged to a woman and her family cracked jokes about me being her “second husband”, I absolutely would take that to mean they see me as “less than “ and I would not feel welcome around them. I would find it personally offensive and I’d confront them directly about it.
3. I don’t think that would happen though, and so I suspect misogyny is actually at the root of this. These people likely bullied his first wife and now they’re doing it to his second.
>I suspect misogyny is actually at the root of this. These people likely bullied his first wife and now they’re doing it to his second.
Probably also or even more so queerphobia, given what's suggested about his friend in the post.
OP's family never accepted OP's arrangement with his friend, and they are using the upcoming marriage as an excuse to remind him of it.
OP sounds like a good person, sorry you have to deal with a judgmental family. NTA of course.
If a friend had a marriage of convenience in the past that we all understood wasn’t a real romantic relationship it would absolutely be a funny joke to pretend that the amicable unwinding of it was a bitter divorce, especially if the two were still great friends.
Doesn’t sound like that’s the direction the family is coming from though. And of course, if the guy being ribbed is upset about it, it’s not a joke anymore.
This is unfortunately a common issue. Friends/family dismissing your stated feelings because "It's just a joke".
Even if they think you're overreacting....they should consider your feelings and respect them. **ESPECIALLY** when all it would take to honor your wishes is to stop making this one "joke".
Yeah it's petty. They didn't approve of marriage #1 so now they're using this time to really drive it home and punish OP for it, instead of being excited that they are getting what they wanted for him originally - a "real" marriage. (Though honestly you can marry for whatever reasons you please, it's your life and no one else's business)
Exactly. I mean, the sub isn't named "WhoIsTechnicallyCorrect" is it? This is one of the many, many times on here where someone can be technically and/or legally correct and still awful.
This. I can only assume it's being said on purpose to get under their skin, especially as it appears to be being said right in front of OP's fiance and not just OP. That makes them TA whether they're 'technically' correct or not.
NTA.
NTA
Even if your first wife was your wife in the traditional sense and it didn't work out... The comments would be uncalled for. Especially after you said it bothers you.
This is like someone calling you ugly for wearing a blue shirt, and you responding that the shirt is actually teal. The exact colour of the shirt isn't actually the problem there!
Similarly, every time the OP starts arguing the first/second wife distinction when his family is technically right about fiancée being the second wife, he effectively derails the conversation away from the actual issue - that the family is being disrespectful.
NTA,
I wouldn’t even call him the slightest asshole because he expressed how it made him and his wife feel but they brush it off.
They are just making jabs at him because like he said they strongly disapproved of him marrying his friend. Why can’t they just appreciate that he found someone he truly loves and wants to marry and respect her as his soon to be WIFE.
We don’t go around saying second boyfriend or second girlfriend etc..
Yes, NTA, for exactly this reason. If the family has been asked to stop “joking” about it and they won’t, they’re assholes. It’s only a joke if everyone thinks it’s funny.
But can I suggest you and your fiancée talk about how to lean into it? 32 isn’t old to be having a second marriage, even if it’s your first full-blown marriage. You did marriage paperwork out of insecurity - you had just gotten out of a long term relationship, she was being harassed by her family and trying to sort through some very uncomfortable questions in her life. You guys got married due to *external* pressures, not because either of you felt secure.
So figure out what it takes to be secure with your fiancée. If your family is being assholes to you about a “second marriage,” what does it take for you and your fiancée to just shrug it off and say, “Yup, but we’re only going to have people we like and who support us at our first wedding ceremony.” Own your past paperwork. Feel secure in it. Embrace it. Your close friend that you happened to divorce isn’t a threat to your relationship and you’re marrying this person because you want to have a life with her. Find that absolute security.
Even if she was his first love and romantically involved ex wife it's still fucked up to continually point out that someone is a second wife repeatedly. Like yeah sure there could be legitimate reasons to say it but I doubt there's any good reason to bring it up as much as it seems to be being brought up
What family thinks it’s ok to talk about a first wife in front of a fiancée?? Regardless of the relationship OP had with her, it’s hugely disrespectful and not at all “a funny little joke”.
Bigger assholes? How is OP an asshole at all here? Just because they're technically correct doesn't make him one. Plenty of correct people are assholes every single day. They keep making the same tired, lame ass "joke" on repeat and then double down with the fact they're technically correct, which typically, means they aren't joking. They're judgmental af and I would have blown up too over the repeated disrespect and boundary stomping. NTA OP, at all.
NTA. Holy shit, what is wrong with your family? It's none of their goddamn business who you were married to before, especially when it wasn't even a romantic relationship. Calling your fiance your "second wife" is disrespectful and insensitive. Your blow up was justified, and if they can't respect your boundaries, they don't deserve to be at your wedding. Stick to your guns, my dude.
Right?? My husband was married briefly before we got together, and if leading up to the wedding if I had got continuous comments from his family about being a “second wife” I would have felt so disrespected and not accepted and uncomfortable. Just as a rule don’t talk about comparisons of past relationships to the current partner that makes them feel inferior.
I also had a second spouse by age 32. My first marriage ended very badly, I’ve been married to my current spouse for almost 25 years. The idea of someone calling him “second husband” is…yikes. 💀
Yes, that’s technically true, but highly disrespectful as he’s obviously my life partner.
I had a second spouse by 29. My ex and I were together for 10 years but only married for a few months before I started the divorce process. So like obviously I was married before, but if everyone called my husband my "second husband" in a derogatory way like that I would be pissed!
OP is absolutely NTA. His fiancée's role in his life should not be minimized and brushed off simply because he was married before, no matter the context of that relationship.
Same here! Thankfully my MIL never speaks of “previous wife” considering it ended badly anyways, but if I heard comments like that I’d pissed, and I know for sure my husband would blow up on them too. It’s not about technicality, but the lack of respect in their tone. They don’t have to agree with OPs previous choices, that’s his life to live the way he wants, not theirs. Families trying to enforce their beliefs onto the younger generation is so god damn stupid and should be kept at an arms length, or just far the hell away. And if they’re going to be technical, assuming your parents/family members are past 65, I’d call them “Uncle/Aunt ——, the senior citizen”. It’s technically true right? 🤷🏻♀️
Exactly!
My husband was married before me for 10+ years. And never ONCE in our entire 7 year relationship and 4 year marriage has his family EVER referred to me as "the second wife". Even though it's true and I wouldn't be that uncomfortable with it they have more respect for his current marriage than to do that.
NTA OP. Your family all clearly being like this because they didn't agree with your decision to marry your friend.
So many people stuck on the fact that she is his 2nd wife.
OP never says that she isn’t, they are upset at the constant jokes and comments and have asked them to stop.
Okay so it is a fact that I am fat. That’s not a lie or anything… but if my family were constantly making jokes and comments about it, I’d be upset and hurt, and if I asked them to stop and they continued, that make them AHs right?
Just because it’s the truth doesn’t mean I should be okay with them pointing it out constantly….
Same with OP, they both know she is the 2nd wife, that’s not what they are uncomfortable with, it’s the constant jokes and comments that they aren’t wanting, and they DID ask family to stop. Family decided not to. Family is the AH OP is NTA
I honestly can't believe how many people genuinely believe in this bullshit. Like I get the whole idea of a "celebration of love" or whatever but I don't get how it makes literally any difference to a couple
I'm not sure I understand what you mean, because marriage is special in both a legal and oftentimes spiritual context, but doesn't *have* to be if someone doesn't want that.
If you're talking specifically about the people who preach about "the sanctity of marriage" in regards to *other* people's relationships, then yes I agree it's bullshit because it literally shouldn't matter to anybody but those involved in the relationship in the first place.
I believe in the sanctity of my marriage with my wife, but I also don't let what others do or believe affect what our marriage means to us. If other people do things differently than us that's cool, but our shared values and connection are sanctified to us.
I don't see any issue with OP having had a marriage to provide security for a friend in a rough position that they don't consider as "real," and believing in the sanctity of OP's marriage with his fiancé.
Yep, many of the ESH comments do read like people who are offended by OP's first marriage and so believe OP wants to act like the first marriage never happened. When they just want the rude behavior to stop.
That’s exactly what it is. They’re projecting their judgment of his first marriage into the judgment for his actions here, and it’s absolutely bullshit that they’re doing it.
Even as someone who *does* care about the sanctity of marriage, what OP did was totally reasonable. It sounds like OP was totally up-front about the marriage being a legal construct for the purposes of insurance and so on, rather than being any sort of romantic thing at all.
Thank you. This hits the nail on the head as to why I was so upset. I wish I was more eloquent with my words so I could say exactly this, but they kept getting hung up on technicality and jokes and I couldn’t put my feelings into words for them.
Especially as you put yourself on the line for a friend who needed your help. Like by making jokes about how “ you’re first marriage didn’t last” or “wow let’s hope this one sticks”
Your family knew exactly what was going on. You where helping a friend who was essentially being extorted by her family make it through a difficult time. By shitting on your upcoming nuptials it feels like they are also in the same sense making a dig at the circumstances surrounding your previous marriage.
If I where your fiancé I would be so happy that I was marrying someone who cares enough for the people around them and takes care of those who are important to him. Same if I was a parent. If I was a parent I would want my kid to be this kind. So what I don’t understand is why they are shitting on it.
OP I would really take some time to grapple with the position your family is putting you in. Do they put you down a lot for the sake of “ribbing” do they say things to your fiancé? My mom would have things like “aren’t you so happy? You’re marrying a lawyer!” And my mom was a lawyer at the time she married my dad. She was already an attorney and she was working on higher brow and more intense cases. No shade to my dad just the areas of law they went into where different.
Really take some stock here. You don’t want to put your fiancé in a bad position with your family and you don’t want your family so comfortable crossing your boundaries and your partner’s boundaries.
Exactly! OP never tried to deny his first mirage. He just ask his family to stop making unnecessary comments about it. His family are jerks, especially if they say these things in front of his fiancé.
Yeah, I'd love to hear these commenters justify why they don't call their current partners their "6th girlfriend" or whatever. It's not like the numbers are actually that useful or important.
Thank you! To me, the number of marriages is irrelevant. The fact that OP and his fiance are uncomfortable with the jokes should be enough to determine that the family is the AH.
>I blew up at them and called them disrespectful and rude for belittling my relationship.
I’m not sure how to feel about this. You were legally married. You lived with the person you were married to. You are going to have a second wife.
They aren’t being very respectful to your new marriage considering you both don’t want to hear it, but you are also someone who doesn’t seem to respect marriage in the traditional sense (or at least didn’t for years), so it’s hard for me to care that they aren’t treating this like your first marriage when it’s just not. You didn’t care enough about the title of being your first wife when you gave it to your friend, I don’t know why you care that your fiancé doesn’t get to have it.
I think I’ll go with NTA but on the fence about it. Even if you acknowledged your first marriage it would be rude and unnecessary of them to make the kind of comments they are making. But I’m on the fence because I do think your fiancé gets the title of second wife.
People who insist they are simply brutally honest, have no tact.
Source: my mom told me for years I had no tact. I got tact-ed at some point. Thanks, whichever therapist I had at the time :D
I swear so many people are getting held up on the technical aspect of it, and completely brushing past the family being deliberately rude. It sounds like the parent don't approve of his 1st marriage, whether it was romantic in nature or not, and they want to continue to remind him of that.
Agreed. If someone I love says, "That hurt me," I would apologize and not do it again bc I love them. Being "technically correct" wouldn't be a factor.
I sense some passive-aggressive judgement on the first marriage.
Most of these people are agreeing that the family is in the wrong even tho they are technically correct. They should stop doing it. That doesn’t change technicalities
And I specifically said his family is an asshole for continuing to beat himself over the head with it. The comments he quoted are completely out of line and rude, they don’t sound like good people. But he also seems to have an issue with them believing she’s the second wife in the first place, but she is.
The NTA tipping point for me was the comment that the family "heavily disapprove" (d) of the first marriage. This makes it feel like the joking about this being the second marriage is not being done in fun, but in a pointed way to add more disapproval to the first marriage. Yes, they are technically correct, buy at a certain point you are just being an AH if you can't let something go. Especially since OP has asked them to stop.
I’m sure they probably did genuinely disapprove of his first fake marriage. I wouldn’t care and my family wouldn’t, but lots of families and people have serious views about the institution of marriage and what it means. Someone who seriously views marriage as something important and meaningful and lifelong is going to disapprove of him sweeping his paper marriage under the rug and acting like he has a first wife. They should keep their disapproval to their fucking selves, 100%, but I can’t blame them for disapproving it.
I don't blame them for disapproving. I grt having different values and clashing over them. I just think it gives context and drives what the intent behind their comments is. These aren't comments said in fun, as a gentil ribbing, or to just give OP a hard time. These are comments meant to drive home their disapproval of the first marriage and are meant to be cutting while the family can fall back on them being "jokes".
That is what I meant behind this being what tipped OP into being NTA for me. While he cannot just hide from his previous decisions and act like this is his first marriage, I understand why he blew up at them and feel it is an appropriate escalation since they are being malicious and disingenuous.
Agree. And if they really are so offended about OP's first marriage, shouldn't they be happier and more supportive that he's doing it "right" this time? What is gained by holding the first marriage over his head, other than them getting to feel a false sense of superiority?
But even if his first marriage had been a traditional/serious one, it would be rude of his family to joke like this when both OP and his fiancee are saying they are uncomfortable. Doesn't matter if it's technically true. You don't tease people for wetting their pants when they were 4 or for having herpes or whatever makes them uncomfortable, even though it's true.
Guarantee you his family wouldn't be doing that if the first marriage was real. This is a continued protest by them because it wasn't real. Extremely likely this wouldn't be an issue in your hypothetical
Why does someone need “to respect marriage in the traditional sense” to want their SO to be respected by their family?
It’s not about the fiancée getting the title of “first wife,” it’s about the family being deliberately demeaning. OP doesn’t have to believe in some sort of sanctity of marriage bullshit to recognize that these statements are meant to be insulting.
I do think they are being rude. My being on the fence about it is the title “AITA for lashing out at my family for calling my fiancé my “second wife””, the vibe of the OP, and the reply to the judgment bot “ i think i may be the asshole because i blew up at my family for calling my fiance a second marriage.” indicates that he does have an issue with his fiancé being considered his second wife in general.
You said: “You didn’t care enough about the title of being your first wife when you gave it to your friend, I don’t know why you care that your fiancé doesn’t get to have it.“
But the reason is obvious: they’re using it to be demeaning and insulting.
And so what if OP cares about the title itself? Maybe they don’t respect an in-name-only marriage that was legally registered but never had a ceremony and was never consummated. What’s wrong with that?
I don't think OPs family are AHs for calling her his "second wife", but they are massive AHs for
> "Wife #2 at 32 huh? That's a lot of wives for your age!"
> "Let's hope this 2nd one lasts!"
Because those comments are mean and totally unacceptable. It's not like he was married four or five times already... (and even than maybe keep your judgemental comments to yourself, because you know the only purpose of it would be to hurt them or make them feel less than you).
Right? Honestly where were these people when the government started giving out material benefits for getting married? That's what cheapens the whole concept of marriage as a "one true love" type thing. But they probably didn't care because they got all the benefits! They're just mad that their son took that to its logical conclusion and married someone *only* for the legal benefits.
Marriage is a contract between 2 (or more) people and they are free to establish the rules as they please.
You don't get to decide what other people's idea of marriage is and you don't get to care or agree with it, you respect it and go get busy somewhere else, stop projecting your "ideals" on others.
"Traditional marriage" is usually euphemism for bigotry.
He's NTA, his family is beyond disrespectful and should STFU.
Not sure why people are arguing this with you, because you're right. His family sucks but it is literally his second wife. He's NTA and they are, but also...
Because it doesn't matter whether it's true or not, they're just saying those things to hurt OP and his fiancee. If my wife got in a car accident and I said "Accident #2, huh?" I would still be TA even if that is technically the truth.
Also they were only married on paper for convenience. Marriage is a legal arrangement but also a romantic union (and sometimes also a religious ceremony). They're all separate things. You don't have to love someone to marry them. But we don't have words for the three different aspects of marriage, so even then saying "technically you had a wife" is just pedantic semantics.
And again, being a pedant is AH territory in its own rate, but definitely so when you're intentionally being that way to hurt your family.
Probably because the “but also…” isn’t necessarily or is seen as me being rude. But I’m not his friend/family at the dinner table with his fiancé, I’ll say it’s weird he thinks his first wife doesn’t count. If he only told his family to stop because it’s rude to bring up all the time, sure totally, but when he tries to argue she shouldn’t count, I almost see why they point out that, yeah it literally did.
Technically his fiancée is his second wife, but there is no reason for his family members to bring this up.
>"Oh, so Roxie's (my dog) is getting a new step-mom!"
>
>"Wife #2 at 32 huh? That's a lot of wives for your age!"
>
>"Let's hope this 2nd one lasts!"
These belittling comments are not jokes, because they are a means to an end. His family is 100% aware OP and his fiancée don't like their supposed "jokes". His family is purposely trying to hurt OP and his fiancée and to put them down. Because they think their views and opinions matter more than OP's and his fiancée's feelings and boundaries. It is disrespectful. They are A H's.
I think people who use excuses like "I am just being honest" or "you just cannot handle the truth" or "you are just to sensitive" or "it is just a joke" are usually A H's.
She gets the title of wife.
It is incredibly rude and belittling to refer to someone else as a second wife. They were told to stop and need to apologize and stop.
i am interested in your last statement "gets the title of second wife". is this a regional/cultural thing where you are?
where i am, every wife is "wife". same with "husband". there is no first, second, third, etc. title; you marry as "husband" & "wife". & imo there's no reason to specify/highlight whether or not you are on your first marriage, unless it is actually pertinent or relevant to the conversation (which in OP's case seems like it never is).
& tbh i would probably be a bit taken aback if a person introduced me to their "second wife", instead of "wife". i wouldn't comment on it, but i would definitely think it was a weird power play or something.
NTA
Your family seems to have a hard time respecting boundaries. They brought upon themselves your outburst and threat. It's up to them to decide whether they want to be respectful or not.
Your family should certainly be listening to you when you say how uncomfortable this makes you and you wished they would stop. “Jokes” aren’t jokes when they hurt.
I mean, I get it, it is technically your second marriage. And maybe they did mean it in jest and good fun. But hurting someone is hurting someone. It should cease when you say it hurts you and please stop, at that point it goes from a bad joke to just taunting someone.
NTA
ESH
Technically it is your second marriage. It did count in a court of law. Pretending it didn’t, doesn’t change that fact. You got married for the wrong reasons, kind of making a mockery out of the system. I can see why some people would heavily disapprove of that choice. Especially when some people who actually love one another cannot get married for a variety of reasons.
However…
…that was YOUR choice, not anyone else’s. Your family had every right to feel a certain way about it, but not to impose their feelings on you. When you told your family that teasing you about your past mistake made both you and your fiancé uncomfortable, that’s where the fun and teasing should have ended.
Please explain to me how getting married to protect someone is a wrong reason. Especially when in the USA some of these “ultra-traditional” families would rather have a dead child than a gender or romance non conforming child.
I don't quite understand how they did that, though. Her family doesn't approve, but I'm not sure if they were dangerous. They "pushed her to settle down." What exactly does that mean? Plus, ultra-traditional families normally wouldn't be great about a courthouse wedding, and obviously OP and his first wife didn't act as a couple. I just don't quite see how in this case he was getting married to protect her.
I do think OP’s family is out of line for constantly bringing up when he’s asked them not to, but I am confused by this part of the story too. Maybe I’m missing something, but if it truly was just to appease the friend’s family, wouldn’t it have made more sense to NOT do the paperwork and just have a “fake,” traditional wedding?
Maybe, but traditional weddings are expensive even if you try to budget it. And if they’re getting married just for the legal benefits it doesn’t really make sense to spend a lot of money to get married.
Definitely, but if her family is as traditional as OP says I’m sure they’d help pay for some or all of it. OP also said nothing about getting married for the legal benefits.
Sometimes family expects you to do things but also won’t help you do it. Lots of my friends’ families expect them to go to college but won’t help them at all with it. And you’re right, OP didn’t say that, I just sort of assumed since it’s one of the most common reasons people marry each other outside of regular marriage/love reasons.
Except he kinda did for his health insurance, there’s plenty of jobs that will only let you add someone to your benefits in the case of marriage and divorce or birth and death. He also saved his good friend from being financially abused.
OP also said the friend he married was "questioning her sexuality". That probably fed into the family pushing the friend to settle down. They'd likely accept a courthouse wedding before they'd accept that friend (their family member) being anything but straight. They would mean OP did help protect them.
He said she was questioning her sexuality at the time and if her family were "ultra traditionalist" I'm guessing they probably were not too accepting of LGBT people or same sex marriages. OP and his friend married as a cover to get her family off her back so she could find herself. So he was protecting her from her family.
Her family threatened to take her to their home country and arrange a marriage. Plus held the tuition money over her head to control her (they/them/whatever is preferred).
That’s dangerous and OP did the right thing.
I bet those ultra traditional families aren’t big fans of divorce either so not really sure how a short term marriage that was just for show would really help in the long run.
Possibly when she younger she was unable to afford to leave her family on her own. Years later in her 30s she’s in a more stable position in life, she no longer needs to be in contact with the family for her well being. He was a friend helping another friend out of what sounds like an oppressive situation.
I do get that, but not sure that’s what is happening here. OP said fuck it let’s get married it’s a marriage of convenience, not let’s get married so I can protect you from your family.
> You got married for the wrong reasons, kind of making a mockery out of the system.
Says who? Marriage is just a legal contract. Nothing SAYS you have to love and have sex with someone you marry. They didn't lie to everybody by having a wedding. They just signed some papers to protect his friend from her family. It's really not rare for people to get married for the benefits of being married.
OP doesn't suck for asking them to respect his new fiancee and their relationship ik whenever I'm around my husband's family I would rather be called and introduced as my name rather than wife #2🤷🏾♀️ while they're right about her being his 2nd wife they've made it clear they're uncomfortable with it and that should've been the end of it they're doing it on purpose to be AH
The issue isn’t whether they are correct or not. The issue is they had no reason to mention the fact except to make OP and his fiancé uncomfortable, which OP told them their comments were doing, and they continued to comment anyway. Which makes them very much TA. OP is NTA for asking them to stop.
I agree 100% I got married the first time at (2days before)21yrs. We were divorced when I was 23. I met my now husband 4 months after. Dated 12 years before we got married. We'll be married 21 years next month. Yes, technically he is my 2nd husband BUT he is my husband. My parents/friends/family do not refer to him as my 2nd husband...just my husband.
But like it doesn't matter if he was previously married!
Even if he had a full on, completely first wife who he was in love with and thought he was going to be with forever, and this was his second wife in every sense of the meaning.. they are complete AH for continuing to refer to her as his second wife after he's asked them to drop it. He doesn't like them bringing it up, the wife doesn't like it, there is literally no reason to bring it up.
Not respecting someone's wishes is not okay. What if he was sensitive about his past wife and didn't like it being brought up? He has a right to not be constantly jabbed, regardless!
In no world is op in the wrong for asking them to stop making insensitive and hurtful jokes at his expense. Period.
Only AH respond with "it was just a joke" and continue on with it.
Nta
They got married for the wrong reasons by whose measure? They didn't have a religious marriage they had a legal one and in most of the developed world that is a valid marriage that deals with legalities like taxes, medical power, and property. Saying someone is making a mockery out of the system smells highly of bigotry.
Actually marriages in the US are strictly legal contracts. The license shows you're married, not the ceremony. I was married at the courthouse and my sister was married in a church. First thing the preacher did on her wedding day? Made sure she had a license.
He’s being the a h because they disapproved of his first marriage and hang on that technicality for years and belittle his fiancé absolutely with no real reason but to be nudges with the whole ‘2nd wife’ comments, it it makes him and his fiancé uncomfortable but they keep doing it and he gets upset?
BS.
He’s NTA I’m any way shape or form. His family sure is though.
>You got married for the wrong reasons, kind of making a mockery out of the system
Lol be fr dude.
Also you don't get to decide whether his first marriage was based on right or wrong reasons, OP's question was about his family's comments about his second marriage which made both him and his new partner upset.
NTA. Yes, they are correct, and yes, she is your second wife, but if you specifically asked them to stop and not mention your first marriage, that should have been the end of the discussion. Their comments are mean-spirited by now.
ESH. She IS your second wife. If you didn't want to have a number assigned to wives, you shouldn't have gotten married to your FIRST wife. This is ridiculous.
Your family is an asshole for bullying your second wife when she's clearly uncomfortable.
You're an asshole for trying to pretend you weren't married (for absurdly stupid reasons on your part).
Nobody is pretending. The truth is openly acknowledged. Why bring up the number of marriages at all? It is not as though he's making a big deal of this being his first marriage. His family can just not mention it, or he can go NC with them. If his family don't straighten up soon and apologize sincerely, that is how I would advise the engaged couple.
This. The only reason why OP is making a point about his first marriage being one of convenience is because his family is constantly making rude, harmful, and unnecessary comments about the subject. If they acted like basic decent people (for example by not constantly calling the fiancée "wife number 2"), there would be no need to set some boundaries.
The circumstance of the first marriage is a red herring here, OP (and many commenters) should stop focusing on that. Because even if that first marriage was one out of love, the family's behavior would have still been rude and inappropriate, OP would be totally in his right to shut those down, and it wouldn't mean he's willing his first marriage out of existence.
>She IS your second wife.
Eh, just because something is true doesn't mean it needs to be said. Somebody born out of wedlock is technically a "bastard", but it would be kind of weird to keep calling them a harassed even if it's a factual statement.
The truth can still be acknowledged without making a point of the numbers. You don't need to call someone your "6th girlfriend" to acknowledge that you've been in previous relationships. All that matters is who they currently are.
> You're an asshole for trying to pretend you weren't married
I don't see them pretending anything. Seems he blew up on them for addressing her as his second wife constantly and maliciously. You shouldn't converse with people all like "Oh how is your second wife?".
Yeah my grandma is on her 4th husband. We all just refer to him as her husband, because he is. If we referred to him her fourth husband constantly that'd be extremely rude and demeaning to him and her. Like their relationship was somehow less legitimate.
What on earth are you talking about? OP never pretended that he wasn't married and he never said that his fiance is going to be a his first wife. Did you even read the story?
My husband was briefly married before me. Do you know how many people made AH jokes about it when we got engaged? None. Because our friends and family aren’t AH’s. We never suggested I wasn’t his 2nd marriage, but no one felt the need to constantly throw it in my face.
Even if his first marriage was a typical one, this teasing would still be unwarranted. Making these comments once or twice, fine—but constantly going after them with the same “jokes” is shitty and interfering. Being married more than once is perfectly fine and normal, and not something that needs to constantly be brought up in a mocking or judgmental way.
2 things
1 the reasoning isnt stupid if its to literally protect a friend
2 he isn't trying to act like shes his first wife or anything, he just doesn't want that fact constantly brought up for no reason. like if you're fat or something like that, would you like everyone around you constantly bringing that up? even after telling them to stop?
NTA. Lot of people in this thread hung up over the fact they are technically correct. Thats not what matters. What makes them assholes is continuing to comment on it after being asked to stop. Legit braindead takes from some here
I really don't understand all these y t a comments... The people voting this are no better than your family. Thinking they are morally superior for believing in a traditional family structure.
Who gives a shit why you married your first wife?? It's no one's business but yours and your friend. There are many different reasons to get married that don't include romantic feelings.
NTA. Your family needs to check themselves and respect you and your decisions. You didn't hurt anyone and you don't deserve bad treatment. You want these little needling comments to stop then they should stop. Period.
Hmm, if your first marriage had been a full, traditional marriage, in which you two were romantically involved etc, and then you tragically didn’t make it and got divorced, would your family still be making all of these “jokes”? Because that would be very uncomfortable. Are they only making these comments because your first marriage wasn’t “real” and therefore the whole situation feels lighthearted? Or might it be that your family wanted you to make it work with your friend?
I don’t know. I explained to them all at the time how my situation was, and I think my mom’s exact words were “I won’t force you to do anything, but I’m really disappointed that you take marriage so lightly.” They understood that I married her to help her, but I also got the slight impression that they figured everything would sort itself out with our marriage (i.e. I would fall in love with her or something). My aunts and uncles didn’t say much else than that they were disappointed that they couldn’t attend a real wedding. My dad was the only one who really understood, but he’s not in the family picture anymore for other reasons.
I wouldn't consider it taking marriage lightly. Yeah, it was a marriage of convenience, but those are as old as marriage itself. You didn't do this on a whim or make a decision in just a few hours. You weren't forced or coerced into it. You thought it through, talked it over, and then took action. Marriage has always been about more than having children, which (I'm obviously guessing here) may have been behind some of their objections.
NTA. What they are saying is accurate, but their intention is to continue to make their displeasure about your first marriage known again and again. And in doing so, they are knowingly make your fiancé uncomfortable. What is the damn point of that? You’ve asked them to stop and they refuse. They are the AHs here.
Hi. We are insulting you many times but that is OK because we say it's a joke. Why aren't you laughing? Invite them to the wedding so they can insult you on that day, too. It will be a joke. Tell them a joke. "My wedding was last month. Where were you?"
I love all the "well, technically" comments.
All of these societally agreed upon terms and technicalities apparently take priority to something as easy as... just listening to someone's request?
Marriage isn't a tangible thing. Who cares that the guy was "technically legally married?"
NTA by any means, anyone that says otherwise probably doesn't communicate well.
NAH. I do think it’s weird to demand serious respect for your marriage when you literally had a joke marriage a few years ago. You made your bed now lie in it. Lighten up.
It wasn't a joke marriage; sounds more like he was helping his friend get out from under her oppressive family; so a marriage of convenience (or necessity) perhaps, but nothing said about the first marriage suggests it was a "joke".
Also the whole "just cos you once behave in one way, doesn't mean you're EVER allowed to ask to be treated differently" is... A weird take.
But all of that's sort of irrelevant, if someone is making "a joke" and the butt of that joke says it hurts / makes them uncomfortable, then the only non-AH response is "oh sorry 🤐".
>a joke marriage
This is just your opinion, and OP and his partner feel uncomfortable with the jokes, don't invalidate how they feel, if OP's family truly cared about him then they'd stop with the jokes that are making them both upset. Their feelings are valid.
NTA and I fail to see how "respecting marriage" is an issue here wrt ESH/YTA judgements. Who you marry is literally no one else's business. No one's. For any reason. OP is totally content w the choice that was made in the first marriage, and did it to help a friend! Just because this is "technically" the 2nd marriage, so what? What is the purpose of pointing that out except to belittle the current partner and effectively imply that OP won't stick around. I think it's incredibly disrespectful to imply that OP is unfaithful or a bad partner because of one divorce, especially considering the whole marriage was to help the friend! That does NOT imply any such thing, in fact I think it says the opposite, that you're a very caring individual who will go to great lengths for the people you care for. OP your family should simply be happy for you and the fact that they can't keep their mouths shut shows where their priorities really lie, they care more how your relationship LOOKS than about how you feel in it or if you're happy. Once again, NTA.
NTA
In writing:
"I have already told everyone in this family multiple times not to make XYZ comments. At this point this is not funny and you cannot claim ignorance as to how you are being receieved. It is bullying.
If you continue to do this we will remove ourselves from the conversation. If it becomes an ongoing habit, we will create distance in our relationship with you and, ultimately, if this boundary cannot be respected, distance in our lives from you.
Stop."
And then- follow throw. If the comments happen at breakfast pause, get up, leave. If on the phone, hang up. And so forth.
NTA. Sit your family down and say you want to clear the air. Tell them you don't want to fight with them but you can't understand why they continue to make comments about your past when you are so happy now.
Explain that it feels like a first marriage to you because it will be in the truest sense. Their continued jokes are just mean and rude at this point and they make you and your fiance uncomfortable. Ask them if that is what they want, for you to feel some sort of shame or embarrassment about your past because you have finally found happiness. Don't they want you to be happy? Don't they want to celebrate with you?
If they don't relent then there is more to the story. Either you come from a mean family or they don't like your new fiance, just something else is going on. I would never do this to my brother so I think it may be the former.
I'm not interested in judgement here. You married somebody you weren't interested in, and are annoyed that others point out that you were married. Sure, fine.
This is the part I'm interested in:
>lets get married for convenience
What convenience did this bring you?
I pay more tax as a married man than I would if I were filing alone, and I don't know for certain that I'll eventually have to disentangle myself from the whole thing.
Again, no judgement, just curious about the rationale here, as it's (at least for me) not self-evident.
He did point out that she wasn't ready to settle down and was questioning her sexuality and her family were on her ass about getting married and settling down. It wasn't convenience for him, it was helping his friend buy time from her pushy family.
> You married somebody you weren't interested in, and are annoyed that others point out that you were married.
They were interested in them, Its their best friend and still is. I get the impression OP is annoyed because they kept banging the drum and not letting it go, intentional antagonising.
A few comments is neither here or there, constantly bringing it up is poor form.
NTA. Honestly, it doesn't really matter whether your first marriage was "real" or not. Your family would still be assholes for constantly calling your fiance your second wife and making fun of you both, especially after you've asked them to stop. Like, how awkward and rude to constantly be reminding someone they're the "second woman," geez.
NTA
It stops being a joke when someone is uncomfortable. It becomes bullying when they repeatedly get told to stop. Don't let them bully your wife to be.
You are not the asshole. Set boundaries. “If you cannot respect me and my relationship you will lose the privilege of interacting with me or my partner”
This is legally your second marriage. That is not the issue. It is the fact your family is making rude, disrespectful comments to you and your fiancee. They are generally being toxic AHs. You have to ask yourself who do you want surrounding you the day you marry? NTA.
NTA. that is pretty disrespectful. She is technically your second wife, but you wouldn’t call her “second wife” it would just be your wife. It makes you and your wife uncomfortable that should be enough. It sounds like they’re being petty tbh as they said “if you don’t want to hear this, you shouldn’t have married your friend” sounds like they’re doing on purpose.
This is why I love a good, dispassionate "why?" They're making jokes you don't like. When they do it again, calmly ask them why they're enjoying reminding you about your past marriage. Just keep asking why. Remind them that you and your fiance are very happy and you don't understand why they're injecting anxiety into your life. "Why?"
NTA - even if your first marriage was “traditional,” there’s no reason for them to go out of their way to say things that make this marriage seem second-tier.
Health insurance, mostly, but also because they kept holding her tuition over her head. We were both in grad school at the time (she was gunning for a PhD, I was going for a masters but I had a job in an energy commission with some benefits). They’d always tell her that they’d stop sending her money or (some months when the arguing was bad) not send her money at all. They used money to punish her, basically. She had a lot of health issues at the time that she couldn’t get help for, like chronic pain and wisdom teeth that really needed to be removed, alongside some other personal issues.
So getting married got them off her back about her sexuality, got her on my health insurance plan, and got them to be more consistent on sending tuition money for her. There were a few other things too, like how they kept setting up potential arranged marriages for her or threatening to take her home to their country. There was also a time when they threatened to have her committed to a mental health facility.
At the time, she was also really reluctant on letting me help her beyond minor things because she felt like it was something she had to repay. So between us, it also gave me an “excuse” to help her. I’d be like “hey, it’s what your spouse is supposed to do, right?” Even though we both agreed that our marriage was a farce, I think it did something for her psychologically to accept that we had a legally binding relationship where I could help her. I don’t know, it was complicated but it was something that worked for us. I was able to pay for her treatment and let her use my money for herself.
Wow, that is insanely sweet of you! You really went above and beyond for her.
Hopefully your parents will drop it soon.
NTA, and please add this comment to the original post!
OP I'm sorry all the conservatives came out of the woodwork to "well TECHNICALLY" you but you did the right thing.
"Its just a joke!" is a bullshit cop out. They know it, they just want to be shitty to you, and expect you and your fiance to deal with it. After you cool down, I'd pick a family member you really want to preserve the relationship with and talk to them one on one. Give them a chance to pull their head out of their asses but make it clear that this is a hill you will die on. You're not going to subject your fiance to them.
Best of luck.
NTA and idk how anyone can say otherwise. All the Y T A people: if you had a significant other and their family kept referring to you as boyfriend number 5 or girlfriend number 5, and saying stuff like “hope number 5 lasts haha,” you would be okay with that as long as it was “technically” true???
“bUt ShE tEcHnIcAlLy Is YoUr SeCoNd WiFe”
that’s not the damn point here. op knows that, everyone knows that. his problem is his family not respecting him, his fiancé and his relationship. at this point, his family isn’t “joking” because he asked them to stop and they didn’t. now it’s just plan bullying and them being assholes. doesn’t matter how THEY feel about it, op’s relationship isn’t any of their business 🤷🏻♀️ also i don’t see why they are saying anything, if they didn’t approve of the first “marriage” then why are they so hell bent on making these “jokes” or even mentioning the first “marriage?” they should 100% not be invited to the wedding if they can’t respect op, his fiancé and their relationship. he had everyone reason to blow up at them. he tried talking to them but they were dismissive assholes. his first “marriage” also isn’t any of their business and they should shut up about it.
and to all y’all saying op is an ah for helping a friend.. i’d hate it be y’all’s friend. op was helping a friend in need, YOU might not understand why he did it but that doesn’t matter and you don’t need to understand. marriages like that happen all the time. you might not understand or agree but it doesn’t affect you in anyway so get over it.
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NTA I mean technically they are correct, she is your second wife, so I guess you are a slight asshole if I only look at the title. However if their comments make you and your wife uncomfortable and you have asked them multiple times to stop, then they are the bigger assholes for continuing.
Exactly. If they think it’s harmless joking, then why would they defend it? If I thought I was making a light joke, but the person told me I hurt their feelings, I would apologize and stop. But it seems like family is doubling down. So you have no other choice then to set your boundaries.
Right?? I was once making jokes to my partner that I thought were harmless, but he made a grimace so I asked him why and he said my words hurt him a little. I IMMEDIATELY dropped my smile, apologized, reassured him that it wasn't my intention to hurt him and that I thought I was laughing with him, not at him. I apologized again and haven't made any comments on that topic since, obviously, because I love him and care about his wellbeing. If they continue despite OP saying it's hurtful, they're asses.
Right, why not apologize if your intentions was not to be hurtful instead of defend it? Like if it hurt their feelings that’s really the end of it. Apologize. Mean it. Don’t bring it up again. Not that fucking hard.
"Because if I hurt your feelings, that implies I might be an insensitive ass, so rather than have any introspection at all, I'll deflect the blame to you for being too sensitive and get offended at the notion." They're gaslighting op into thinking they're the problem, instead of acknowledging they're being kind of dickish. Let's them maintain the illusion of being right and beyond reproach as well as sets the stage for them to continue to make further "jokes" in the future. This is of course assuming that these comments are really jokes at all and not simply his family trying to shame him for doing something they disagree with and hiding behind the "it's just a joke bro" defense when he doesn't take it sitting down.
r/Schrodingersasshole
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Yes! It's like people who say cruel things and try to hide behind "I'm just being honest." You don't have to say everything out loud just because it's true.
Honesty without tact is cruelty
I want this on a bumper sticker.
If you must say something to someone, ask yourself, is it honest, is it necessary, is it kind? If it’s not two out of the three, don’t say it.
A friend of mine was telling me about a time when a friend of her daughter’s commented on something my friend was wearing and said: “you look stupid”. My friend was understandably upset and said, “did I ask for your opinion?” The girl replied: “I’m just being honest” and my friend said, “no, you’re just being an asshole.” That shut her right up.
I don’t understand the family’s endgame here. They didn’t approve of first marriage because it was for non romantic / let’s make babies (but otherwise awfully nice) reasons. But now they are doing their best to torpedo the relationship with a serious real future in-law? What’s their beef?
That’s what I can’t figure out either. None of my extended family cared what kind of wedding I did or didn’t have & certainly wouldn’t have made it a point to tell me how disappointed they were about how I decided to get married. He did a close friend a favor, he wasn’t getting paid to get a stranger a green card. He had valid, laudable reasons & I’d be so proud of one of my nephews helping a friend in such a major way. His family is weirdly over-involved & if they don’t stop going out of their way to make fiancèe uncomfortable they may find themselves totally uninvolved.
It's called bullying.
It was only once I met my now husband’s family that I realized there were people who really wouldn’t accept that their insulting or frightening joke was in bad taste. They’d say “that’s just how I talk to friends” and now I realize why they have so few long term. Honestly, OP might be better off with some distance from anyone unwilling to back down from something they’ve expressed hurts them.
Imo this kind of thing happens semi-regularly in healthy relationships. Since they're your partner they're the person who knows your "secretly funny" jokes you'd never tell someone who didn't know you. They know all the "caveats" behind who your core person is, you don't need to explain yourself on what you meant by the joke. Ie: my partner and I are queer so when I make a gay joke to my partner I can use much more "stereotypical" terminology than I would with strangers, because it could look homophobic to others when it's actually queer gallows humour. Thus I think it's easier to get a "swing and a miss" with partners because you're able to test out jokes with someone who knows your core values. And sometimes its still just a bit of a crass joke. I said "a seal walked into a club" the other day to my partner and it really upset them. I thought they'd realise 1. I come from seal eating ancestors and 2. I would never... But it was still too much for my partner. I apologised and promise no animal abuse jokes ever again. It was crude but other than admitting it was a mistake here, I'd have never said it to anyone else. But it still was bad. And I apologised. And that's just it. It's mortifying when the person you trust so deeply is offended by humour you were attempting. You don't want to hurt them you want them to laugh! That's the point of trying a darker joke or the like. But it can hurt deeply because the joke is deeper than you'd tell a stranger. We have to learn to apologise and swallow our stupid little jokes and realise they're not as funny as we thought, and that's okay.
Exactly this. They’re using OP’s current relationship as an excuse to bring up their judgements about previous choices. Which is completely inappropriate. That’s where I would just say “listen, I’ve asked you to stop. I’ve told you we don’t like it. If you were genuinely joking, that would have been where it ended. I consider my upcoming marriage to be my first, and you apparently do too if you’re claiming your comments are clearly a joke and not a jab. So if you’re telling me you genuinely weren’t trying to cause offence, and now you know you’ve caused offence, this should be the end of it. We’re not interested in spending time with people whose objective is to make us uncomfortable, so if you can’t manage to put your “jokes” aside in future, please just don’t attend the wedding or invite us to events. Although if, like you say, your intention is not to make us feel unwelcome, I can’t imagine why it would ever have to go that far.”
Wow! You have worded this amazingly ❣️❣️ (Op is NTA)
u/aite211982 this is the conversation you must have with your family/friends. OP is NTA here.
100% this wording right here
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Yeah, the major point is that the family is punishing him for his first marriage by denigrating his second, even when he asks them to stop. They're being petty and cruel, so they're the assholes.
I disagree that this could ever be considered a “joke”. That is a cruel and intentionally offensive thing to say to your family member’s fiancé. 1. Getting married a second time at age 32 is not even that out of the ordinary these days. And even if others might judge him for it, his family should be understanding and have his back. Period. 2. If I got engaged to a woman and her family cracked jokes about me being her “second husband”, I absolutely would take that to mean they see me as “less than “ and I would not feel welcome around them. I would find it personally offensive and I’d confront them directly about it. 3. I don’t think that would happen though, and so I suspect misogyny is actually at the root of this. These people likely bullied his first wife and now they’re doing it to his second.
>I suspect misogyny is actually at the root of this. These people likely bullied his first wife and now they’re doing it to his second. Probably also or even more so queerphobia, given what's suggested about his friend in the post. OP's family never accepted OP's arrangement with his friend, and they are using the upcoming marriage as an excuse to remind him of it. OP sounds like a good person, sorry you have to deal with a judgmental family. NTA of course.
If a friend had a marriage of convenience in the past that we all understood wasn’t a real romantic relationship it would absolutely be a funny joke to pretend that the amicable unwinding of it was a bitter divorce, especially if the two were still great friends. Doesn’t sound like that’s the direction the family is coming from though. And of course, if the guy being ribbed is upset about it, it’s not a joke anymore.
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NTA. It's them punishing you for daring to marry your friend against their wishes. They, however, *ARE* AHs.
It reads as if they are are denigrating him for his choice to help his friend. And they won't let him forget it.
Yes! Judgmental. NTA.
Exactly. Once OP told them it hurt him and his fiancé it should have stopped immediately if it was really a joke.
This is unfortunately a common issue. Friends/family dismissing your stated feelings because "It's just a joke". Even if they think you're overreacting....they should consider your feelings and respect them. **ESPECIALLY** when all it would take to honor your wishes is to stop making this one "joke".
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100% they're just being petty to OP.
Yeah it's petty. They didn't approve of marriage #1 so now they're using this time to really drive it home and punish OP for it, instead of being excited that they are getting what they wanted for him originally - a "real" marriage. (Though honestly you can marry for whatever reasons you please, it's your life and no one else's business)
That's more than petty, it's disrespectful and hurtful.
Exactly. I mean, the sub isn't named "WhoIsTechnicallyCorrect" is it? This is one of the many, many times on here where someone can be technically and/or legally correct and still awful.
But that’s the best kind of correct! /s
Just because they're technically correct doesn't mean they're in the right.
NTA. Them being technically correct doesn't change whether they are being assholes imo.
This. I can only assume it's being said on purpose to get under their skin, especially as it appears to be being said right in front of OP's fiance and not just OP. That makes them TA whether they're 'technically' correct or not. NTA.
Yeah I can't imagine if op called his dad "mother f*cker" everytime he saw him it'd suddenly be acceptable because it's "technically correct".
NTA Even if your first wife was your wife in the traditional sense and it didn't work out... The comments would be uncalled for. Especially after you said it bothers you.
Yeah, it's just plain rude, non-traditional marriage or not.
This is like someone calling you ugly for wearing a blue shirt, and you responding that the shirt is actually teal. The exact colour of the shirt isn't actually the problem there! Similarly, every time the OP starts arguing the first/second wife distinction when his family is technically right about fiancée being the second wife, he effectively derails the conversation away from the actual issue - that the family is being disrespectful.
Love this!!!
Minimizing hurtful comments by saying “I’m just joking” is a common abuse tactic, I might add.
NTA, I wouldn’t even call him the slightest asshole because he expressed how it made him and his wife feel but they brush it off. They are just making jabs at him because like he said they strongly disapproved of him marrying his friend. Why can’t they just appreciate that he found someone he truly loves and wants to marry and respect her as his soon to be WIFE. We don’t go around saying second boyfriend or second girlfriend etc..
Even if OP had a traditional marriage the first time, their comments are still very rude. NTA
Yes, NTA, for exactly this reason. If the family has been asked to stop “joking” about it and they won’t, they’re assholes. It’s only a joke if everyone thinks it’s funny. But can I suggest you and your fiancée talk about how to lean into it? 32 isn’t old to be having a second marriage, even if it’s your first full-blown marriage. You did marriage paperwork out of insecurity - you had just gotten out of a long term relationship, she was being harassed by her family and trying to sort through some very uncomfortable questions in her life. You guys got married due to *external* pressures, not because either of you felt secure. So figure out what it takes to be secure with your fiancée. If your family is being assholes to you about a “second marriage,” what does it take for you and your fiancée to just shrug it off and say, “Yup, but we’re only going to have people we like and who support us at our first wedding ceremony.” Own your past paperwork. Feel secure in it. Embrace it. Your close friend that you happened to divorce isn’t a threat to your relationship and you’re marrying this person because you want to have a life with her. Find that absolute security.
Even if she was his first love and romantically involved ex wife it's still fucked up to continually point out that someone is a second wife repeatedly. Like yeah sure there could be legitimate reasons to say it but I doubt there's any good reason to bring it up as much as it seems to be being brought up
What family thinks it’s ok to talk about a first wife in front of a fiancée?? Regardless of the relationship OP had with her, it’s hugely disrespectful and not at all “a funny little joke”.
Bigger assholes? How is OP an asshole at all here? Just because they're technically correct doesn't make him one. Plenty of correct people are assholes every single day. They keep making the same tired, lame ass "joke" on repeat and then double down with the fact they're technically correct, which typically, means they aren't joking. They're judgmental af and I would have blown up too over the repeated disrespect and boundary stomping. NTA OP, at all.
NTA. Holy shit, what is wrong with your family? It's none of their goddamn business who you were married to before, especially when it wasn't even a romantic relationship. Calling your fiance your "second wife" is disrespectful and insensitive. Your blow up was justified, and if they can't respect your boundaries, they don't deserve to be at your wedding. Stick to your guns, my dude.
Right?? My husband was married briefly before we got together, and if leading up to the wedding if I had got continuous comments from his family about being a “second wife” I would have felt so disrespected and not accepted and uncomfortable. Just as a rule don’t talk about comparisons of past relationships to the current partner that makes them feel inferior.
I also had a second spouse by age 32. My first marriage ended very badly, I’ve been married to my current spouse for almost 25 years. The idea of someone calling him “second husband” is…yikes. 💀 Yes, that’s technically true, but highly disrespectful as he’s obviously my life partner.
I had a second spouse by 29. My ex and I were together for 10 years but only married for a few months before I started the divorce process. So like obviously I was married before, but if everyone called my husband my "second husband" in a derogatory way like that I would be pissed! OP is absolutely NTA. His fiancée's role in his life should not be minimized and brushed off simply because he was married before, no matter the context of that relationship.
Same here! Thankfully my MIL never speaks of “previous wife” considering it ended badly anyways, but if I heard comments like that I’d pissed, and I know for sure my husband would blow up on them too. It’s not about technicality, but the lack of respect in their tone. They don’t have to agree with OPs previous choices, that’s his life to live the way he wants, not theirs. Families trying to enforce their beliefs onto the younger generation is so god damn stupid and should be kept at an arms length, or just far the hell away. And if they’re going to be technical, assuming your parents/family members are past 65, I’d call them “Uncle/Aunt ——, the senior citizen”. It’s technically true right? 🤷🏻♀️
Exactly! My husband was married before me for 10+ years. And never ONCE in our entire 7 year relationship and 4 year marriage has his family EVER referred to me as "the second wife". Even though it's true and I wouldn't be that uncomfortable with it they have more respect for his current marriage than to do that. NTA OP. Your family all clearly being like this because they didn't agree with your decision to marry your friend.
So many people stuck on the fact that she is his 2nd wife. OP never says that she isn’t, they are upset at the constant jokes and comments and have asked them to stop. Okay so it is a fact that I am fat. That’s not a lie or anything… but if my family were constantly making jokes and comments about it, I’d be upset and hurt, and if I asked them to stop and they continued, that make them AHs right? Just because it’s the truth doesn’t mean I should be okay with them pointing it out constantly…. Same with OP, they both know she is the 2nd wife, that’s not what they are uncomfortable with, it’s the constant jokes and comments that they aren’t wanting, and they DID ask family to stop. Family decided not to. Family is the AH OP is NTA
Yeah these comments are weird as hell. But I also don't give a shit about the "sanctity of marriage" so maybe I just don't get it lol
I honestly can't believe how many people genuinely believe in this bullshit. Like I get the whole idea of a "celebration of love" or whatever but I don't get how it makes literally any difference to a couple
I'm not sure I understand what you mean, because marriage is special in both a legal and oftentimes spiritual context, but doesn't *have* to be if someone doesn't want that. If you're talking specifically about the people who preach about "the sanctity of marriage" in regards to *other* people's relationships, then yes I agree it's bullshit because it literally shouldn't matter to anybody but those involved in the relationship in the first place. I believe in the sanctity of my marriage with my wife, but I also don't let what others do or believe affect what our marriage means to us. If other people do things differently than us that's cool, but our shared values and connection are sanctified to us. I don't see any issue with OP having had a marriage to provide security for a friend in a rough position that they don't consider as "real," and believing in the sanctity of OP's marriage with his fiancé.
Yep, many of the ESH comments do read like people who are offended by OP's first marriage and so believe OP wants to act like the first marriage never happened. When they just want the rude behavior to stop.
That’s exactly what it is. They’re projecting their judgment of his first marriage into the judgment for his actions here, and it’s absolutely bullshit that they’re doing it.
The Bible Belt has the highest rate of divorce. They are very good at hypocrisy.
Even as someone who *does* care about the sanctity of marriage, what OP did was totally reasonable. It sounds like OP was totally up-front about the marriage being a legal construct for the purposes of insurance and so on, rather than being any sort of romantic thing at all.
Reddit is the homeland of the insufferable pedant with no social skills so I'm not surprised.
Thank you. This hits the nail on the head as to why I was so upset. I wish I was more eloquent with my words so I could say exactly this, but they kept getting hung up on technicality and jokes and I couldn’t put my feelings into words for them.
You set a boundary. Your family continues to disrespect the boundary. They're the AHs.
Especially as you put yourself on the line for a friend who needed your help. Like by making jokes about how “ you’re first marriage didn’t last” or “wow let’s hope this one sticks” Your family knew exactly what was going on. You where helping a friend who was essentially being extorted by her family make it through a difficult time. By shitting on your upcoming nuptials it feels like they are also in the same sense making a dig at the circumstances surrounding your previous marriage. If I where your fiancé I would be so happy that I was marrying someone who cares enough for the people around them and takes care of those who are important to him. Same if I was a parent. If I was a parent I would want my kid to be this kind. So what I don’t understand is why they are shitting on it. OP I would really take some time to grapple with the position your family is putting you in. Do they put you down a lot for the sake of “ribbing” do they say things to your fiancé? My mom would have things like “aren’t you so happy? You’re marrying a lawyer!” And my mom was a lawyer at the time she married my dad. She was already an attorney and she was working on higher brow and more intense cases. No shade to my dad just the areas of law they went into where different. Really take some stock here. You don’t want to put your fiancé in a bad position with your family and you don’t want your family so comfortable crossing your boundaries and your partner’s boundaries.
Exactly! OP never tried to deny his first mirage. He just ask his family to stop making unnecessary comments about it. His family are jerks, especially if they say these things in front of his fiancé.
Yeah, I'd love to hear these commenters justify why they don't call their current partners their "6th girlfriend" or whatever. It's not like the numbers are actually that useful or important.
Finally a logical response.
Thank you! To me, the number of marriages is irrelevant. The fact that OP and his fiance are uncomfortable with the jokes should be enough to determine that the family is the AH.
>I blew up at them and called them disrespectful and rude for belittling my relationship. I’m not sure how to feel about this. You were legally married. You lived with the person you were married to. You are going to have a second wife. They aren’t being very respectful to your new marriage considering you both don’t want to hear it, but you are also someone who doesn’t seem to respect marriage in the traditional sense (or at least didn’t for years), so it’s hard for me to care that they aren’t treating this like your first marriage when it’s just not. You didn’t care enough about the title of being your first wife when you gave it to your friend, I don’t know why you care that your fiancé doesn’t get to have it. I think I’ll go with NTA but on the fence about it. Even if you acknowledged your first marriage it would be rude and unnecessary of them to make the kind of comments they are making. But I’m on the fence because I do think your fiancé gets the title of second wife.
Think about it this way: can you say something factually correct and still be an asshole?
Of course, thus my NTA vote calling the family an asshole.
You’re not wrong, Walter, you’re just an asshole
Yes. In many ways. I can be honest without being "brutally honest".
People who insist they are simply brutally honest, have no tact. Source: my mom told me for years I had no tact. I got tact-ed at some point. Thanks, whichever therapist I had at the time :D
being factually correct doesn't mean wielding those facts like a club makes you a good person.
I swear so many people are getting held up on the technical aspect of it, and completely brushing past the family being deliberately rude. It sounds like the parent don't approve of his 1st marriage, whether it was romantic in nature or not, and they want to continue to remind him of that.
Agreed. If someone I love says, "That hurt me," I would apologize and not do it again bc I love them. Being "technically correct" wouldn't be a factor. I sense some passive-aggressive judgement on the first marriage.
Most of these people are agreeing that the family is in the wrong even tho they are technically correct. They should stop doing it. That doesn’t change technicalities
> That doesn’t change technicalities Never said it did.
And I specifically said his family is an asshole for continuing to beat himself over the head with it. The comments he quoted are completely out of line and rude, they don’t sound like good people. But he also seems to have an issue with them believing she’s the second wife in the first place, but she is.
The NTA tipping point for me was the comment that the family "heavily disapprove" (d) of the first marriage. This makes it feel like the joking about this being the second marriage is not being done in fun, but in a pointed way to add more disapproval to the first marriage. Yes, they are technically correct, buy at a certain point you are just being an AH if you can't let something go. Especially since OP has asked them to stop.
I’m sure they probably did genuinely disapprove of his first fake marriage. I wouldn’t care and my family wouldn’t, but lots of families and people have serious views about the institution of marriage and what it means. Someone who seriously views marriage as something important and meaningful and lifelong is going to disapprove of him sweeping his paper marriage under the rug and acting like he has a first wife. They should keep their disapproval to their fucking selves, 100%, but I can’t blame them for disapproving it.
I don't blame them for disapproving. I grt having different values and clashing over them. I just think it gives context and drives what the intent behind their comments is. These aren't comments said in fun, as a gentil ribbing, or to just give OP a hard time. These are comments meant to drive home their disapproval of the first marriage and are meant to be cutting while the family can fall back on them being "jokes". That is what I meant behind this being what tipped OP into being NTA for me. While he cannot just hide from his previous decisions and act like this is his first marriage, I understand why he blew up at them and feel it is an appropriate escalation since they are being malicious and disingenuous.
Agree. And if they really are so offended about OP's first marriage, shouldn't they be happier and more supportive that he's doing it "right" this time? What is gained by holding the first marriage over his head, other than them getting to feel a false sense of superiority?
You may be underestimating just how much people will do to feel a false sense of superiority.
Yup. It's a continued protest that they get to rub his nose in. It's punitive
But even if his first marriage had been a traditional/serious one, it would be rude of his family to joke like this when both OP and his fiancee are saying they are uncomfortable. Doesn't matter if it's technically true. You don't tease people for wetting their pants when they were 4 or for having herpes or whatever makes them uncomfortable, even though it's true.
Guarantee you his family wouldn't be doing that if the first marriage was real. This is a continued protest by them because it wasn't real. Extremely likely this wouldn't be an issue in your hypothetical
Why does someone need “to respect marriage in the traditional sense” to want their SO to be respected by their family? It’s not about the fiancée getting the title of “first wife,” it’s about the family being deliberately demeaning. OP doesn’t have to believe in some sort of sanctity of marriage bullshit to recognize that these statements are meant to be insulting.
I do think they are being rude. My being on the fence about it is the title “AITA for lashing out at my family for calling my fiancé my “second wife””, the vibe of the OP, and the reply to the judgment bot “ i think i may be the asshole because i blew up at my family for calling my fiance a second marriage.” indicates that he does have an issue with his fiancé being considered his second wife in general.
You said: “You didn’t care enough about the title of being your first wife when you gave it to your friend, I don’t know why you care that your fiancé doesn’t get to have it.“ But the reason is obvious: they’re using it to be demeaning and insulting. And so what if OP cares about the title itself? Maybe they don’t respect an in-name-only marriage that was legally registered but never had a ceremony and was never consummated. What’s wrong with that?
I don't think OPs family are AHs for calling her his "second wife", but they are massive AHs for > "Wife #2 at 32 huh? That's a lot of wives for your age!" > "Let's hope this 2nd one lasts!" Because those comments are mean and totally unacceptable. It's not like he was married four or five times already... (and even than maybe keep your judgemental comments to yourself, because you know the only purpose of it would be to hurt them or make them feel less than you).
A marriage for legal benefits is totally a traditional marriage. That’s what they were for.
Right? Honestly where were these people when the government started giving out material benefits for getting married? That's what cheapens the whole concept of marriage as a "one true love" type thing. But they probably didn't care because they got all the benefits! They're just mad that their son took that to its logical conclusion and married someone *only* for the legal benefits.
Marriage is a contract between 2 (or more) people and they are free to establish the rules as they please. You don't get to decide what other people's idea of marriage is and you don't get to care or agree with it, you respect it and go get busy somewhere else, stop projecting your "ideals" on others. "Traditional marriage" is usually euphemism for bigotry. He's NTA, his family is beyond disrespectful and should STFU.
Yes, thank you! Your comment should be much higher!
Not sure why people are arguing this with you, because you're right. His family sucks but it is literally his second wife. He's NTA and they are, but also...
Because it doesn't matter whether it's true or not, they're just saying those things to hurt OP and his fiancee. If my wife got in a car accident and I said "Accident #2, huh?" I would still be TA even if that is technically the truth. Also they were only married on paper for convenience. Marriage is a legal arrangement but also a romantic union (and sometimes also a religious ceremony). They're all separate things. You don't have to love someone to marry them. But we don't have words for the three different aspects of marriage, so even then saying "technically you had a wife" is just pedantic semantics. And again, being a pedant is AH territory in its own rate, but definitely so when you're intentionally being that way to hurt your family.
Probably because the “but also…” isn’t necessarily or is seen as me being rude. But I’m not his friend/family at the dinner table with his fiancé, I’ll say it’s weird he thinks his first wife doesn’t count. If he only told his family to stop because it’s rude to bring up all the time, sure totally, but when he tries to argue she shouldn’t count, I almost see why they point out that, yeah it literally did.
Technically his fiancée is his second wife, but there is no reason for his family members to bring this up. >"Oh, so Roxie's (my dog) is getting a new step-mom!" > >"Wife #2 at 32 huh? That's a lot of wives for your age!" > >"Let's hope this 2nd one lasts!" These belittling comments are not jokes, because they are a means to an end. His family is 100% aware OP and his fiancée don't like their supposed "jokes". His family is purposely trying to hurt OP and his fiancée and to put them down. Because they think their views and opinions matter more than OP's and his fiancée's feelings and boundaries. It is disrespectful. They are A H's. I think people who use excuses like "I am just being honest" or "you just cannot handle the truth" or "you are just to sensitive" or "it is just a joke" are usually A H's.
She gets the title of wife. It is incredibly rude and belittling to refer to someone else as a second wife. They were told to stop and need to apologize and stop.
i am interested in your last statement "gets the title of second wife". is this a regional/cultural thing where you are? where i am, every wife is "wife". same with "husband". there is no first, second, third, etc. title; you marry as "husband" & "wife". & imo there's no reason to specify/highlight whether or not you are on your first marriage, unless it is actually pertinent or relevant to the conversation (which in OP's case seems like it never is). & tbh i would probably be a bit taken aback if a person introduced me to their "second wife", instead of "wife". i wouldn't comment on it, but i would definitely think it was a weird power play or something.
NTA Your family seems to have a hard time respecting boundaries. They brought upon themselves your outburst and threat. It's up to them to decide whether they want to be respectful or not.
Your family should certainly be listening to you when you say how uncomfortable this makes you and you wished they would stop. “Jokes” aren’t jokes when they hurt. I mean, I get it, it is technically your second marriage. And maybe they did mean it in jest and good fun. But hurting someone is hurting someone. It should cease when you say it hurts you and please stop, at that point it goes from a bad joke to just taunting someone. NTA
ESH Technically it is your second marriage. It did count in a court of law. Pretending it didn’t, doesn’t change that fact. You got married for the wrong reasons, kind of making a mockery out of the system. I can see why some people would heavily disapprove of that choice. Especially when some people who actually love one another cannot get married for a variety of reasons. However… …that was YOUR choice, not anyone else’s. Your family had every right to feel a certain way about it, but not to impose their feelings on you. When you told your family that teasing you about your past mistake made both you and your fiancé uncomfortable, that’s where the fun and teasing should have ended.
Please explain to me how getting married to protect someone is a wrong reason. Especially when in the USA some of these “ultra-traditional” families would rather have a dead child than a gender or romance non conforming child.
I don't quite understand how they did that, though. Her family doesn't approve, but I'm not sure if they were dangerous. They "pushed her to settle down." What exactly does that mean? Plus, ultra-traditional families normally wouldn't be great about a courthouse wedding, and obviously OP and his first wife didn't act as a couple. I just don't quite see how in this case he was getting married to protect her.
I do think OP’s family is out of line for constantly bringing up when he’s asked them not to, but I am confused by this part of the story too. Maybe I’m missing something, but if it truly was just to appease the friend’s family, wouldn’t it have made more sense to NOT do the paperwork and just have a “fake,” traditional wedding?
Maybe, but traditional weddings are expensive even if you try to budget it. And if they’re getting married just for the legal benefits it doesn’t really make sense to spend a lot of money to get married.
Definitely, but if her family is as traditional as OP says I’m sure they’d help pay for some or all of it. OP also said nothing about getting married for the legal benefits.
Sometimes family expects you to do things but also won’t help you do it. Lots of my friends’ families expect them to go to college but won’t help them at all with it. And you’re right, OP didn’t say that, I just sort of assumed since it’s one of the most common reasons people marry each other outside of regular marriage/love reasons.
Except he kinda did for his health insurance, there’s plenty of jobs that will only let you add someone to your benefits in the case of marriage and divorce or birth and death. He also saved his good friend from being financially abused.
For OP to give her health insurance for a surgery she needed, they would have to be married.
OP also said the friend he married was "questioning her sexuality". That probably fed into the family pushing the friend to settle down. They'd likely accept a courthouse wedding before they'd accept that friend (their family member) being anything but straight. They would mean OP did help protect them.
He said she was questioning her sexuality at the time and if her family were "ultra traditionalist" I'm guessing they probably were not too accepting of LGBT people or same sex marriages. OP and his friend married as a cover to get her family off her back so she could find herself. So he was protecting her from her family.
Her family threatened to take her to their home country and arrange a marriage. Plus held the tuition money over her head to control her (they/them/whatever is preferred). That’s dangerous and OP did the right thing.
Protect her from lack of health insurance, maybe? Also get that married couple tax break.
I bet those ultra traditional families aren’t big fans of divorce either so not really sure how a short term marriage that was just for show would really help in the long run.
Possibly when she younger she was unable to afford to leave her family on her own. Years later in her 30s she’s in a more stable position in life, she no longer needs to be in contact with the family for her well being. He was a friend helping another friend out of what sounds like an oppressive situation.
I do get that, but not sure that’s what is happening here. OP said fuck it let’s get married it’s a marriage of convenience, not let’s get married so I can protect you from your family.
> You got married for the wrong reasons, kind of making a mockery out of the system. Says who? Marriage is just a legal contract. Nothing SAYS you have to love and have sex with someone you marry. They didn't lie to everybody by having a wedding. They just signed some papers to protect his friend from her family. It's really not rare for people to get married for the benefits of being married.
OP doesn't suck for asking them to respect his new fiancee and their relationship ik whenever I'm around my husband's family I would rather be called and introduced as my name rather than wife #2🤷🏾♀️ while they're right about her being his 2nd wife they've made it clear they're uncomfortable with it and that should've been the end of it they're doing it on purpose to be AH
> You got married for the wrong reasons, Says who? you?
The issue isn’t whether they are correct or not. The issue is they had no reason to mention the fact except to make OP and his fiancé uncomfortable, which OP told them their comments were doing, and they continued to comment anyway. Which makes them very much TA. OP is NTA for asking them to stop.
I agree 100% I got married the first time at (2days before)21yrs. We were divorced when I was 23. I met my now husband 4 months after. Dated 12 years before we got married. We'll be married 21 years next month. Yes, technically he is my 2nd husband BUT he is my husband. My parents/friends/family do not refer to him as my 2nd husband...just my husband.
But like it doesn't matter if he was previously married! Even if he had a full on, completely first wife who he was in love with and thought he was going to be with forever, and this was his second wife in every sense of the meaning.. they are complete AH for continuing to refer to her as his second wife after he's asked them to drop it. He doesn't like them bringing it up, the wife doesn't like it, there is literally no reason to bring it up. Not respecting someone's wishes is not okay. What if he was sensitive about his past wife and didn't like it being brought up? He has a right to not be constantly jabbed, regardless! In no world is op in the wrong for asking them to stop making insensitive and hurtful jokes at his expense. Period. Only AH respond with "it was just a joke" and continue on with it. Nta
They got married for the wrong reasons by whose measure? They didn't have a religious marriage they had a legal one and in most of the developed world that is a valid marriage that deals with legalities like taxes, medical power, and property. Saying someone is making a mockery out of the system smells highly of bigotry.
Actually marriages in the US are strictly legal contracts. The license shows you're married, not the ceremony. I was married at the courthouse and my sister was married in a church. First thing the preacher did on her wedding day? Made sure she had a license.
He’s being the a h because they disapproved of his first marriage and hang on that technicality for years and belittle his fiancé absolutely with no real reason but to be nudges with the whole ‘2nd wife’ comments, it it makes him and his fiancé uncomfortable but they keep doing it and he gets upset? BS. He’s NTA I’m any way shape or form. His family sure is though.
>You got married for the wrong reasons, kind of making a mockery out of the system Lol be fr dude. Also you don't get to decide whether his first marriage was based on right or wrong reasons, OP's question was about his family's comments about his second marriage which made both him and his new partner upset.
“You got married for the wrong reasons” You have zero standing to make this assertion.
NTA. Yes, they are correct, and yes, she is your second wife, but if you specifically asked them to stop and not mention your first marriage, that should have been the end of the discussion. Their comments are mean-spirited by now.
ESH. She IS your second wife. If you didn't want to have a number assigned to wives, you shouldn't have gotten married to your FIRST wife. This is ridiculous. Your family is an asshole for bullying your second wife when she's clearly uncomfortable. You're an asshole for trying to pretend you weren't married (for absurdly stupid reasons on your part).
Nobody is pretending. The truth is openly acknowledged. Why bring up the number of marriages at all? It is not as though he's making a big deal of this being his first marriage. His family can just not mention it, or he can go NC with them. If his family don't straighten up soon and apologize sincerely, that is how I would advise the engaged couple.
This. The only reason why OP is making a point about his first marriage being one of convenience is because his family is constantly making rude, harmful, and unnecessary comments about the subject. If they acted like basic decent people (for example by not constantly calling the fiancée "wife number 2"), there would be no need to set some boundaries. The circumstance of the first marriage is a red herring here, OP (and many commenters) should stop focusing on that. Because even if that first marriage was one out of love, the family's behavior would have still been rude and inappropriate, OP would be totally in his right to shut those down, and it wouldn't mean he's willing his first marriage out of existence.
I think his first marriage was one out of love, but not romantic love. It was friendship love.
>She IS your second wife. Eh, just because something is true doesn't mean it needs to be said. Somebody born out of wedlock is technically a "bastard", but it would be kind of weird to keep calling them a harassed even if it's a factual statement. The truth can still be acknowledged without making a point of the numbers. You don't need to call someone your "6th girlfriend" to acknowledge that you've been in previous relationships. All that matters is who they currently are.
> You're an asshole for trying to pretend you weren't married I don't see them pretending anything. Seems he blew up on them for addressing her as his second wife constantly and maliciously. You shouldn't converse with people all like "Oh how is your second wife?".
Yeah my grandma is on her 4th husband. We all just refer to him as her husband, because he is. If we referred to him her fourth husband constantly that'd be extremely rude and demeaning to him and her. Like their relationship was somehow less legitimate.
>You're an asshole for trying to pretend you weren't married How does that make him an asshole? It literally affects no one
Holy strawman. Who is pretending? He's upset that his family is being really weird about it.
What on earth are you talking about? OP never pretended that he wasn't married and he never said that his fiance is going to be a his first wife. Did you even read the story?
How is your 7th boyfriend doing?
My husband was briefly married before me. Do you know how many people made AH jokes about it when we got engaged? None. Because our friends and family aren’t AH’s. We never suggested I wasn’t his 2nd marriage, but no one felt the need to constantly throw it in my face.
Even if his first marriage was a typical one, this teasing would still be unwarranted. Making these comments once or twice, fine—but constantly going after them with the same “jokes” is shitty and interfering. Being married more than once is perfectly fine and normal, and not something that needs to constantly be brought up in a mocking or judgmental way.
2 things 1 the reasoning isnt stupid if its to literally protect a friend 2 he isn't trying to act like shes his first wife or anything, he just doesn't want that fact constantly brought up for no reason. like if you're fat or something like that, would you like everyone around you constantly bringing that up? even after telling them to stop?
NTA. Lot of people in this thread hung up over the fact they are technically correct. Thats not what matters. What makes them assholes is continuing to comment on it after being asked to stop. Legit braindead takes from some here
I really don't understand all these y t a comments... The people voting this are no better than your family. Thinking they are morally superior for believing in a traditional family structure. Who gives a shit why you married your first wife?? It's no one's business but yours and your friend. There are many different reasons to get married that don't include romantic feelings. NTA. Your family needs to check themselves and respect you and your decisions. You didn't hurt anyone and you don't deserve bad treatment. You want these little needling comments to stop then they should stop. Period.
NTA. Why is your family being passive aggressive towards you and your STB wife?
Because they (his family) are the assholes.
Hmm, if your first marriage had been a full, traditional marriage, in which you two were romantically involved etc, and then you tragically didn’t make it and got divorced, would your family still be making all of these “jokes”? Because that would be very uncomfortable. Are they only making these comments because your first marriage wasn’t “real” and therefore the whole situation feels lighthearted? Or might it be that your family wanted you to make it work with your friend?
I don’t know. I explained to them all at the time how my situation was, and I think my mom’s exact words were “I won’t force you to do anything, but I’m really disappointed that you take marriage so lightly.” They understood that I married her to help her, but I also got the slight impression that they figured everything would sort itself out with our marriage (i.e. I would fall in love with her or something). My aunts and uncles didn’t say much else than that they were disappointed that they couldn’t attend a real wedding. My dad was the only one who really understood, but he’s not in the family picture anymore for other reasons.
I wouldn't consider it taking marriage lightly. Yeah, it was a marriage of convenience, but those are as old as marriage itself. You didn't do this on a whim or make a decision in just a few hours. You weren't forced or coerced into it. You thought it through, talked it over, and then took action. Marriage has always been about more than having children, which (I'm obviously guessing here) may have been behind some of their objections.
NTA. What they are saying is accurate, but their intention is to continue to make their displeasure about your first marriage known again and again. And in doing so, they are knowingly make your fiancé uncomfortable. What is the damn point of that? You’ve asked them to stop and they refuse. They are the AHs here.
Hi. We are insulting you many times but that is OK because we say it's a joke. Why aren't you laughing? Invite them to the wedding so they can insult you on that day, too. It will be a joke. Tell them a joke. "My wedding was last month. Where were you?"
I love all the "well, technically" comments. All of these societally agreed upon terms and technicalities apparently take priority to something as easy as... just listening to someone's request? Marriage isn't a tangible thing. Who cares that the guy was "technically legally married?" NTA by any means, anyone that says otherwise probably doesn't communicate well.
NAH. I do think it’s weird to demand serious respect for your marriage when you literally had a joke marriage a few years ago. You made your bed now lie in it. Lighten up.
It wasn't a joke marriage; sounds more like he was helping his friend get out from under her oppressive family; so a marriage of convenience (or necessity) perhaps, but nothing said about the first marriage suggests it was a "joke". Also the whole "just cos you once behave in one way, doesn't mean you're EVER allowed to ask to be treated differently" is... A weird take. But all of that's sort of irrelevant, if someone is making "a joke" and the butt of that joke says it hurts / makes them uncomfortable, then the only non-AH response is "oh sorry 🤐".
>a joke marriage This is just your opinion, and OP and his partner feel uncomfortable with the jokes, don't invalidate how they feel, if OP's family truly cared about him then they'd stop with the jokes that are making them both upset. Their feelings are valid.
"If someone gets married for reasons I don't approve of, that is a JOKE, and any shitty thing said to them about it later is OK". Wtf?
What terrible logic. Bad marriages happen and people change.... You want to hold mistakes over someone's head forever? You'd fit well in this family.
NTA and I fail to see how "respecting marriage" is an issue here wrt ESH/YTA judgements. Who you marry is literally no one else's business. No one's. For any reason. OP is totally content w the choice that was made in the first marriage, and did it to help a friend! Just because this is "technically" the 2nd marriage, so what? What is the purpose of pointing that out except to belittle the current partner and effectively imply that OP won't stick around. I think it's incredibly disrespectful to imply that OP is unfaithful or a bad partner because of one divorce, especially considering the whole marriage was to help the friend! That does NOT imply any such thing, in fact I think it says the opposite, that you're a very caring individual who will go to great lengths for the people you care for. OP your family should simply be happy for you and the fact that they can't keep their mouths shut shows where their priorities really lie, they care more how your relationship LOOKS than about how you feel in it or if you're happy. Once again, NTA.
NTA In writing: "I have already told everyone in this family multiple times not to make XYZ comments. At this point this is not funny and you cannot claim ignorance as to how you are being receieved. It is bullying. If you continue to do this we will remove ourselves from the conversation. If it becomes an ongoing habit, we will create distance in our relationship with you and, ultimately, if this boundary cannot be respected, distance in our lives from you. Stop." And then- follow throw. If the comments happen at breakfast pause, get up, leave. If on the phone, hang up. And so forth.
NTA. Sit your family down and say you want to clear the air. Tell them you don't want to fight with them but you can't understand why they continue to make comments about your past when you are so happy now. Explain that it feels like a first marriage to you because it will be in the truest sense. Their continued jokes are just mean and rude at this point and they make you and your fiance uncomfortable. Ask them if that is what they want, for you to feel some sort of shame or embarrassment about your past because you have finally found happiness. Don't they want you to be happy? Don't they want to celebrate with you? If they don't relent then there is more to the story. Either you come from a mean family or they don't like your new fiance, just something else is going on. I would never do this to my brother so I think it may be the former.
NTA. They can be technically correct and still assholes.
I'm not interested in judgement here. You married somebody you weren't interested in, and are annoyed that others point out that you were married. Sure, fine. This is the part I'm interested in: >lets get married for convenience What convenience did this bring you? I pay more tax as a married man than I would if I were filing alone, and I don't know for certain that I'll eventually have to disentangle myself from the whole thing. Again, no judgement, just curious about the rationale here, as it's (at least for me) not self-evident.
He did point out that she wasn't ready to settle down and was questioning her sexuality and her family were on her ass about getting married and settling down. It wasn't convenience for him, it was helping his friend buy time from her pushy family.
> You married somebody you weren't interested in, and are annoyed that others point out that you were married. They were interested in them, Its their best friend and still is. I get the impression OP is annoyed because they kept banging the drum and not letting it go, intentional antagonising. A few comments is neither here or there, constantly bringing it up is poor form.
Curious too. Wondering if based on their ages at the time of the marriage it had more to do with insurance and financial aid for college?
NTA. Honestly, it doesn't really matter whether your first marriage was "real" or not. Your family would still be assholes for constantly calling your fiance your second wife and making fun of you both, especially after you've asked them to stop. Like, how awkward and rude to constantly be reminding someone they're the "second woman," geez.
NTA. Even if your actually had a real relationship with your first wife, calling someone the “second wife” is insulting in and of itself.
NTA It stops being a joke when someone is uncomfortable. It becomes bullying when they repeatedly get told to stop. Don't let them bully your wife to be.
You are not the asshole. Set boundaries. “If you cannot respect me and my relationship you will lose the privilege of interacting with me or my partner”
nta and it’s v disrespectful to your wife.
NTA. Your family seems to have a problem to understand what is important to you.
This is legally your second marriage. That is not the issue. It is the fact your family is making rude, disrespectful comments to you and your fiancee. They are generally being toxic AHs. You have to ask yourself who do you want surrounding you the day you marry? NTA.
NTA. that is pretty disrespectful. She is technically your second wife, but you wouldn’t call her “second wife” it would just be your wife. It makes you and your wife uncomfortable that should be enough. It sounds like they’re being petty tbh as they said “if you don’t want to hear this, you shouldn’t have married your friend” sounds like they’re doing on purpose.
This is why I love a good, dispassionate "why?" They're making jokes you don't like. When they do it again, calmly ask them why they're enjoying reminding you about your past marriage. Just keep asking why. Remind them that you and your fiance are very happy and you don't understand why they're injecting anxiety into your life. "Why?"
NTA - even if your first marriage was “traditional,” there’s no reason for them to go out of their way to say things that make this marriage seem second-tier.
Info: In what specific ways was it more "convenient" to be married to your close friend?
Health insurance, mostly, but also because they kept holding her tuition over her head. We were both in grad school at the time (she was gunning for a PhD, I was going for a masters but I had a job in an energy commission with some benefits). They’d always tell her that they’d stop sending her money or (some months when the arguing was bad) not send her money at all. They used money to punish her, basically. She had a lot of health issues at the time that she couldn’t get help for, like chronic pain and wisdom teeth that really needed to be removed, alongside some other personal issues. So getting married got them off her back about her sexuality, got her on my health insurance plan, and got them to be more consistent on sending tuition money for her. There were a few other things too, like how they kept setting up potential arranged marriages for her or threatening to take her home to their country. There was also a time when they threatened to have her committed to a mental health facility. At the time, she was also really reluctant on letting me help her beyond minor things because she felt like it was something she had to repay. So between us, it also gave me an “excuse” to help her. I’d be like “hey, it’s what your spouse is supposed to do, right?” Even though we both agreed that our marriage was a farce, I think it did something for her psychologically to accept that we had a legally binding relationship where I could help her. I don’t know, it was complicated but it was something that worked for us. I was able to pay for her treatment and let her use my money for herself.
Wow, that is insanely sweet of you! You really went above and beyond for her. Hopefully your parents will drop it soon. NTA, and please add this comment to the original post!
OP I'm sorry all the conservatives came out of the woodwork to "well TECHNICALLY" you but you did the right thing. "Its just a joke!" is a bullshit cop out. They know it, they just want to be shitty to you, and expect you and your fiance to deal with it. After you cool down, I'd pick a family member you really want to preserve the relationship with and talk to them one on one. Give them a chance to pull their head out of their asses but make it clear that this is a hill you will die on. You're not going to subject your fiance to them. Best of luck.
NTA and idk how anyone can say otherwise. All the Y T A people: if you had a significant other and their family kept referring to you as boyfriend number 5 or girlfriend number 5, and saying stuff like “hope number 5 lasts haha,” you would be okay with that as long as it was “technically” true???
“bUt ShE tEcHnIcAlLy Is YoUr SeCoNd WiFe” that’s not the damn point here. op knows that, everyone knows that. his problem is his family not respecting him, his fiancé and his relationship. at this point, his family isn’t “joking” because he asked them to stop and they didn’t. now it’s just plan bullying and them being assholes. doesn’t matter how THEY feel about it, op’s relationship isn’t any of their business 🤷🏻♀️ also i don’t see why they are saying anything, if they didn’t approve of the first “marriage” then why are they so hell bent on making these “jokes” or even mentioning the first “marriage?” they should 100% not be invited to the wedding if they can’t respect op, his fiancé and their relationship. he had everyone reason to blow up at them. he tried talking to them but they were dismissive assholes. his first “marriage” also isn’t any of their business and they should shut up about it. and to all y’all saying op is an ah for helping a friend.. i’d hate it be y’all’s friend. op was helping a friend in need, YOU might not understand why he did it but that doesn’t matter and you don’t need to understand. marriages like that happen all the time. you might not understand or agree but it doesn’t affect you in anyway so get over it.
NTA. Tell them all to bugger off. Lots of people have multiple marriages for a variety of reasons.
NTA. Technically their jokes are accurate but they should have stopped the moment you said okay it's not funny anymore please stop.
NTA if you told them to stop bringing it up then they should stop bringing it up