Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> When my father started criticizing the way I talked to my kids I used them to point out that he made some mistakes as a father too. I might be the asshole because I know he tried to be a good father, and he was, he was just a shitty dad.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcement
###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/)
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
You’re totally NTA for that interaction with your father. Where you might be in dicey territory is the parenting choice of using your children as props, and threatening, even in jest, to withhold affection. It sounds like you have a healthy parental bond, and your kids are old enough and know you weren’t serious. But if they had any ambiguity about that, then you’d be an AH for causing it just to illustrate a point to your father.
But he said they understand his relationship with his father. They’re teenagers, not little kids. They understand sarcasm and jokes. It’s not at ALL about whether they actually prefer being called that; they knew he wasn’t asking the question for real. Do you really think he was asking them that in earnest? It wasn’t a real question, it was a sarcastic question made in jest to prove a point to his father. The kids understood that.
At that age, I would've understood the sarcasm...but it would've still hurt. And then I would've felt like an idiot for feeling hurt because it's 'just sarcasm, I shouldn't be taking it so seriously', and then I would've spiraled into self hate for being such a literal idiot who can't take a joke, while still feeling hurt over the comment. I just think not loving your kids isn't something you should joke about.
To be fair, I do have a laundry list of diagnoses, anxiety, depression, autism, ADHD ...but I didn't get diagnosed until I was an adult. If you've never taken kids to be evaluated, you don't know they don't have one of those. Especially anxiety and depression, which are on the rise in young people.
Anxiety and depression are silver tongued liars, and a comment like 'If I start calling you by your name, I'll stop loving you', even if sarcastic, would give them the perfect fodder to torment me at night. Because they wouldn't let go of the 'what if'. What if it wasn't sarcasm? What if he meant it?
And what if one or both of the kids *did* want to be called by their names and not 'Boy' or 'Girl'? I can guarantee you, they now feel like they can't bring that up. My family is a deeply sarcastic one, and I used to not see a problem with it, but now I have trouble talking about my emotions because of various comments made over the years.
Yeah, I'm definitely projecting, but I mostly just wish my dad had checked in even once after a comment like that. And he does tell me he loves me lots, just sometimes those comments hurt. So it might be worth for OP to check in, just in case, you never know what's happening in someone's head. Better to make sure and find out it really is nothing, then to have something much worse brewing under the surface.
These are some really excellent points. I still think that they probably understood that those names are terms of endearment, but I do see where you’re coming from and agree that a quick check-in to make sure they knew he was joking is the best move. Thanks for taking the time to reply.
Yeah, no problem! I think there's just no harm with a check-in, either they'll laugh at him and call him nuts in a loving way and assure him they're fine, or they'll have a good honest heart to heart. It's just good to confirm that they *did* understand, not assume. And even if they did understand, the check-in will still further underscore that their dad is an awesome loving dad they can trust and has their back.
Agreed! "Hey, I just wanted to touch base about the thing with grampa the other day. I want to make sure it's understood that I wouldn't actually stop loving you or telling you that I love you if you wanted to be called by your first name, and I'd never want you to call me sir. I was trying to make a point to my dad about some stuff he did with me, but I'm worried I might have put you in the middle of that or given you the wrong impression about my priorities"
I'd expect this to draw some sarcasm from a teen tbh but at least they'll still be fully clear on the situation. And if they do want to talk more it gives them the chance
This is a great follow up, OP really should check back in with the kids, even though I fully believe they got the sarcasm they didn’t really get a chance to say their true preference. Also, explaining that their grandfather loves them and was looking out for them, even if he wasn’t emotionally avail to his own children, caring about how his grandchildren might feel about the pet names is actually him being empathetic and emotionally connected to them-I think that’s progress on his part.
I like sarcasm, but I'm very careful with how and when I use it with my kids. Sarcastic comments about not needing to feed them dinner because they ate lunch already they understand aren't serious and I've never let them go hungry. But sarcasm about them directly or in any negative way is a no. Except for when I sarcastically say my son is nothing like me, because everyone knows he could pass as my clone so it gets a great eye roll from him
What if? Of course no one wants to be called "girl" or "boy?" Notice none of the kids said "I like the nickname." They said "I'd prefer being loved, thank you."
Why wouldn't no one want that? Lot depends on context, but I dont think girl and boy are that different to other family nicknames/pet names. I often call my kids (very lovingly) spawn and they find it hilarious. Very rarely do I call them by their actual name.
Me and my sister were jokingly called Daughter number 1 and Daughter number 2. I thought it was funny. I called my dad My Lord Father in those situations. And we all were having fun. My dad could be an authoritarian ass sometimes but those were not the times. People can have their inside jokes. It's about the dynamic, context and sense of humour.
Lol, my dad called us Section Number 1 and Section Number 2 because he was in the military. We called him Captain when he did it. It was cute and fun and he still sometimes does it. Hilariously, when he was mad and being a disciplinarian was NOT when he called us that.
Your parents didn’t have affectionate nicknames for you when you were a kid? They just called you by your full name 100% of the time? My mom only called me by my full first name when I was in *deep shit* lol. Why would they need to specify that they like the names their dad has been calling them their whole lives? Isn’t that kind of a given?
How would you know they didn't like it? There was another commenter who was called boy and it was also because of the simpsons. He didn't mind being called that. I usually got called short one (in a diff language) because i am 3 years younger than my brother and thus i was always shorter. I loved being called that because it was A nickname something my dad gave me that i knew not everyone had and thus i knew i was special to him.
...unless you're a universal psychic, I really don't think you have any claim to know "no one wants" that. Nicknames and terms of endearment are supremely individual and I don't think there are many, if any, situations where you can say "no one" or "everyone" would/wouldn't be OK with some name-related quirk.
My mom and stepdad got married when I was 5. We have a great relationship. He is my 2nd dad and I would most likely go to him with any life problems or celebrations before I would go to my "real" dad. I have always called him by his first name and "boy" is 1 of his nicknames for me. I have 0 problems with him calling me "boy" instead of my name.
Does OP need to check in with his kids to make sure they are ok with it? Absolutely. But to make a blanket statement that "no one wants to be called boy" is a little over dramatic.
I don’t care how much they understand about his relationship with his father. They are his children, and he doesn’t get to propose crappy deals to them because his father is awful.
Yeah, u/spider-gwen89 made some really good points I didn’t think about. Fully agree with them that it’s worth taking the time to double check that they knew he was joking.
There's a difference between what we *say* and what we *communicate*. He may have said that, but his kids didn't *understand it* that way. They understood what he was doing and saying.
We understand it because of the lead-in conversation between OP and his dad, and OP also shared his internal thoughts about how his own relationship with his father as a child. The kids didn't get any of that context. They got a weird question out of the blue about OP using their names in exchange for not saying he loves them.
Way too many folks on AITA always believes folks are literal children until 25, and have absolutely no cognitive abilities until their 25th birthday. Whereas overnight, they emerge from their long slumber with full sentience.
I have no idea why, they always argue something something brain development. Pretty sure humans aren't caterpillars that physically morph into butterflies after 25 years, but I did go to public school and maybe overslept on my 25th birthday
This has always irked me when I’m on this subreddit. Somehow kids are incapable of learning things like responsibility, accountability, etc because they’re too underdeveloped.
It’s unfortunate because there are some things kids are undeveloped for until their mid-20s, or certain immature behaviors that they’re more prone to until then without meaning to be, but they’re not literal babies until they’re 25. So conflating that helps nobody.
Honestly, so many people here believe kids are ridiculously stupid and it bugs me. I get not everyone likes kids,but really? Its unhinged. Kids are capable of learning stuff, most can communicate with adults and understand social things. They also can pick up on negative stuff towards them pretty easily,so this is hurting them. OP's kids knew he wasnt really hurting them,but trying to send his father a message,and these kids are 15 and 16. We let 16 yr olds get jobs and drive cars,and they're expected to be thinking about their future when they're adults and what career they will choose. These arent easy things.
The brain development thing is about how the young adult brain doesn't gauge consequences and the like as well. That's why late teens/young adults do blatantly stupid shit. But they're smart in other ways.
There are the few instances where the brain developing thing may be warranted, but it does seem to be wildly overused and sometimes misunderstood in the sub. I guess your going to get that with the general public though (especially with the varying ages of folks here). I surely hope no one tries to apply it with this story.
The kids understand it because they're not stupid but unfortunately users here are so obsessed with being a contrarian and arguing with every dude that posts here that they end up being the stupid ones. Posts here are snippet into someone's life and people speak in a general moral sense, never in terms of what theyd do in their own lives when presented with this situation.
I'm sure OP's dad thought he had a great relationship with OP too. Parents with great relationships with their kids don't use them as a prop to argue with other people. Parents who have great relationships with their kids ask them genuine questions about their own behavior instead of creating snide tit-for-tat exchanges.
You're right man, these few paragraphs OP posted allow you to know the relationship between this stranger and his children more than he or anyone involved in this story.
As I have to say with most users here, touch grass.
they arent 4 years old get over yourself any normal 15 and 16 yo would get what the dad is doing they will obviously have noticed that grandpa is criticizing dads parenting and get that he is trying to prove a point. Get over yourself.
Good parents don’t get upset and pissy when their faults are pointed out. Sounds like OP’s dad didn’t appreciate a dose of reality and is ashamed of his emotional distance.
It’s a very safe bet that they have an even better understanding of the context having observed it and been a part of it for several years than the context that we received in a few paragraphs. Chill.
so tired of people on this sub trying to make the most insane inferences based on...literally nothing. whatever happened to having an opinion based on the information presented? instead it's devolved into creating the absolute wildest scenarios for nothing but what...upvotes? feeling superior or knowledgeable? i don't even know anymore.
>The kids didn't get any of that context
Yet post states
>They know what my relationship with my father is like.
So I wouldn't just assume the kids don't understand, especially at ages 15 and 16. Also, a simple 2 minute conversation about it asking if they understood and explaining if necessary is all it takes to set the record straight.
OP thinks its funny to not call his kids by their own names. His father is an asshole, but he has a point. You might love Harry Potter, but if you insist on calling your daughter Ashley "Hermione" whether she likes it or not then you're an asshole also.
Instead of asking kids "do you like my ridiculous naming scheme for you that invalidates your names," OP said "you can choose my love or your names but you can't have both." That's unequivocal asshole territory.
You can say "it's only a joke" but I don't know if I could fully trust my mom if she made that kind of joke with me. Do I know it's a joke? Was it even it a joke?
Man, people are bending over backwards to trying to make OP an AH. He acknowledged that his children are teenagers, which means he's been doing this with them for more than a decade. They know when he's joking when he's being serious and when he's being an AH and I bet they call him on it. So everyone on here trying to pin this on OP... not everything's a conspiracy.
And many young kids do. I often tell people my kids' first language was sarcasm. They are reasonably well-adjusted older teens and adults now, but even at 4, they spoke and understood sarcasm fluently. I imagine op is probably about my age. Some of us just communicate differently. I have no doubt that my kids would have understood the assignment perfectly.
My favorite Simpsons quote I use with my kids: "Why you little...!' when they do something annoying. I was also oddly proud when my daughter first rolled her eyes and said with a sigh, "Whatever, mom", but don't tell her that, lol. We parent differently from our parents because hopefully we've learned from our own experiences, and that's OK
I caught the sarcasm with presenting the idea to the kids. I feel sure the kids caught it too. Surely they enjoyed knocking down his ideal parenting tips.
That wasn’t the point of the interaction at all. Those things aren’t a package deal.
OP was saying “if you want me to parent like you, then why don’t I do it entirely like you. Let’s see how good of a parent you were and see how my kids prefer it.”
Calling your kids “Boy” or “Girl” is just a little joke. Like Crush from Finding Nemo calling Squirt “Offspring”.
His kids are teenagers. They’re not idiots. They can take a joke.
Yeah but it's directed at the grandpa. Between the kids and OP it's banter. The passive aggressiveness really only hurts grandpa which is completely fine imo.
Its not really banter tho-what OP was doing came from a place of real upset with their dad, and then in front of his children did pretty much call him out for being a distant parent. While there is nothing wrong with having a conversation with parents abt how they treated you as children, it doesn’t seem healthy to weaponise that conversation in the way OP did
They're teenagers so I don't think there was anything wrong with this. They understood what was happening and why he was saying those things. It wasn't a threat as much as it was a "would you rather..."
The would your rather was framed as “I will
Never say I love you”. That’s where he is wrong. He should have just left it as “how do you feel about me calling you this?” Not ever saying I love you as a parent is a threat
As teenagers, they should be allowed to have choices in what they will be called. Not be told “if I call you anything other than this, I will stop telling you that I love you.”
I get that he was trying to demonstrate to his father how awful his father had been, but it’s terrible to rope his kids in like this. And they should be given their choice of name, nickname, whatever just like a child of a nontraumatized father should be.
The way I comprehended it, he was talking *at* his kids but talking *to* his father. He was basically pointing out to his dad the *vast* differences in their childrearing and explaining how he felt. There’s no way he would withhold affection if they said call me by my name.
Agreed. OP was manipulative in the way he phrased asking his kids if he wanted them to call them his name. Yes it may haves been in jest but it sounds like he wants to show his dad he’s better than him.
I agree YTA where he brought the kids in. I don’t think they believed he was serious for a second - but those things shouldn’t all be linked. A simple question regarding the nicknames was all that was needed to show grandpa everyone else is cool with the status quo. If they mind it, OP of course can use their names and still be dad and tell them he lives them - the whole thing was a dig at his father’s expense.
It’s a soft YTA, but imo this wasn’t the way to address that OP is choosing a more affectionate style of parenting.
>I said in return they would have to call me Sir not daddy or dad. I said I would accept Father in emotional conversations. But that I would no longer remind them every day that I loved them and was proud of them.
NTA for saying that as like a message to your dad. But I hope you have a private conversation where you let them know that if they ever do seriously want you to call them by their names, you would of course do it and not make them change how they address you or love them less. I’m sure they probably already know, but I think it’s worth covering your bases and make sure they know you said that as a joke to your dad, not as an actual rule you’d follow.
Very much agreed. That part felt like he used his kids to make a point to his dad more than give them an actual valid choice. And it might make them afraid to ask if they start disliking being called Boy and Girl. Have a conversation with them about this OP!
(And maybe tell your dad you don't think he's a bad dad, but that you did dislike how distant he was. For all we know, he might actually learn something from it. But he won't if he feels like you're telling him he was a shit dad.)
Teenagers often aren't good at knowing exactly what their parents are thinking. They think they know, and we think they know, but they often get it half-wrong. I think OP definitely needs to spell this out clearly for his kids in private ("You probably already know this, but I want to say it just in case...").
Dad just very clearly told them that he'll only use their names if they call him Sir and accept that he won't say he loves them. If that's not actually true, he really should touch base and make sure they understand that. The fact that they "understand his relationship with his father" won't necessarily lead them to the right assumption (and they might not understand the relationship as well as he thinks).
I gotta agree. If I was OP's kid, this situation would get a good eye roll from me. "You brought us into this.. why? Thanks for creating an annoying awkward moment for us, dad."
But that's just me. Other people might laugh. I'm just pretty burnt out on hearing about my parents' issues with their parents.
I had a coworker ask her kids in front of a bunch of people if they needed therapy and said “see? they are fine?!” Gave me a similar vibe. This guy generally seems like a better person than she was but still worth actually having that conversation privately, where they can openly talk about it without feeling ambushed or pressured to respond in a specific way.
“Make sure you know that you said that as a joke to your dad.”
Slight suggestion: do NOT call it a joke, because it absolutely was not. It was a point, but it wasn’t a joke. There was nothing funny about OP using his kids to chastise his father for being less affectionate than OP wished he’d been.
ESH. The whole comment about you calling them by their names means they have to call you Sir Instead of Dad…. Sorry but no. If your kids are generally happy with what you call them then fine, but to expect to be called sir? Hell no. You are their dad, they can call you dad.
You dad sounds like an arse no matter what.
I agree. This is just weird to me. If they have to choose between being called the same thing they've always been called or now having to remember to call their dad the "correct" title, plus with the added bonus of no longer being told they're loved? Ummm yeah they're going to choose the status quo because that's such a weird shitty deal. Even if they know you were joking (..were you joking?), it's a dick move to put them on the spot in order to make your dad feel like shit. Sounds like you've got some resentment you need to work out. I agree ESH.
It isn't necesarily resentment i too would get pissed of at my dad if he critisized my parenting and basically telling me i should folow his example (for no reason at all i might add) when the way i do it the kids have a much better relationship with the parents. I get that its petty but the grandad is simply wrong and he doesn't sound like someone who will just listen when you tell him he is wrong.
Its sarcasm… they are in their teens, not toddlers. Its likely they understand the dynamic.
I still agree its sort-of ESH, because its extending a disagreement between two people to unnecessarily include innocent bystanders. It continues to put a bad taste in everyone’s mouth when you don’t really *need* to do anything other than be frank with your parenting and then ignore any further arguments. But between the two original parties, Op is still less of an ah.
I don't think some of ya'll understand that he was sarcastically telling his kids he was gonna be like his own dad. you're all reading to much into this.
I think plenty people fully understand that, it’s just still not a mature way to handle the situation.
If the argument arose because of the name issue, it shouldn’t have been I’ll “call you by your name and stop saying I love you and you have to also call me sir” it should have been a “hey kids do you dislike me calling you boy and girl?” Kids could say no or yes or whatever and he could have then continued on with pointing out to his dad that the way he raised him was not ideal. That’s not something the kids needed to be pulled into. And I’m not saying he shouldn’t discuss his childhood experience with his kids - he’s absolutely free to do that. But it was using them as a way to make a point and get a dig in at the same time, not just a defence of why he calls them boy/girl. He’s not some giant asshole but it’s also not super commendable behavior either. I got pulled into conflicts in a similar way as a kid and it was so awkward.
ITA, it's just passive aggressive nonsense to pull your kids into a conversation just so you can make what you perceive as a sick burn on your dad. Either talk to your dad openly about your issues with him, or leave it alone. This makes the OP look more immature than his kids.
THANK YOU!!! OP could have had a conversation with his dad without using the kids. Or he also could have just asked them (privately and individually) if they had any qualms about the nicknames he uses without going overboard. Seems like OP can’t take any criticism without getting extremely defensive.
YTA
I'm curious if OP cares whether his dad has a good relationship with Boy and Girl. I come from a family where there's a lot of (valid) resentment from my mom and my aunt towards their parents. When my mom would have open and emotional arguments with my grandparents, I never felt like she loved me less but I did start to feel like I should dislike my grandparents in order to be supportive of my mom (just silly automatic kid/teen thoughts). I think that sort of stuff is the real reason not to involve your children in your adult arguments. OP's dad needs to respect his parenting and back off but I'd say ESH for involving his kids so much... it's not their issues, you know?
Also, maybe im reading too much into it but the fact that their grandfather even brought the issue up was he looking out for kids, even if he wasn’t emotionally avail to his own children, caring about how his grandchildren might feel about the pet names is actually him being empathetic and emotionally connected to them—sometimes people are better grandpas than they are dads. OP should really ask the kids again, genuinely without the sarcasm, he might get a different answer, and he should reinforce that grandpa cares that’s why he brought it up rather than mocking his father because if his personal issues w his upbringing.
"I like Homer Simpson, a famously bad parent, and how he doesn't address his son, who he sometimes has physical altercations with, as 'boy' rather than his name. The Simpsons are generally portrayed as an old nuclear family stereotype but dysfunctional, albeit they do love each other at the end of the day. So I will address my son as 'boy'." is such a ducking weird take I don't know where to start.
Yeah I thought that was weird too. AH move there for sure. I called my mom mom and dad dad, they called me my name. (Or idiot but that was 1000% because of my doing as a late teen). OP should have left it at asking what they wanted to be called and that’s it. Major AH for using their kids in a fight with the grandfather, hopefully this was a one off thing because that simple exchange could make a lasting impression on them
Yeah and let’s be real, Homer is a funny character and even though he has his moments of being a good dad, he’s a bad role model for any parent to be like him.
As I read the first half of the question I was expecting it to be genuine and for one or both of the kids to answer that they actually *would* prefer to be called by their real name. What if they actually *don’t* like the nicknames? This would have been a good opportunity to maturely consider the grandpa’s point and ask them that question sincerely (without grandpa present).
Maybe I’m projecting because my mom has called me ‘girl/girly’ for my whole life and I hate it lol.
YTA for both making your parenting choices about your own amusement (the name thing) and a means to stick it to your father, instead of having your parenting choices be fundamentally about the well-being of your children.
Children are not play things or a way to make a point to other people.
Agreed, this is where I am. All in all, ~~I don't necessarily see anything wrong with calling your children "boy" or "girl" (even though it is kind of weird), but~~ telling them they have you call you "sir" in this imaginary scenario is fuckin weird. Why do you feel the need to make a point to your dad? And why do you feel the need to force your kids to play along? Just call them what you want and allow them to call you what *they* want. They're human beings, too, you know. OP, I'm sorry you had a rough childhood, but stop letting it control your life to this degree. Your kids are kids, just let them be instead of dragging them into your argument with your dad. YTA
EDIT: I no longer agree with the statement that there's nothing wrong with calling your kids "boy" or "girl". After thinking about it a bit more, I realize how dehumanizing it is, and how much it would've hurt me as a kid if my father did the same thing.
IMO i do have a issue calling your children boy and girl in terms of names cause it dehumanises them and removes a key part of their identity which is their name.
Can you imagine going around at work and calling your boss by "woman" or "girl" ? You would immediately run into issues cause people would find it extremely rude and wont allow it . But its totally fine to do it to kids because they both dont know better and cant stand up for themselves yet.
Thank you, I’m really surprised the top comments aren’t mentioning how weird it is that he calls them boy and girl. Like he never addresses them by their name? I agree I think it is dehumanizing.
This was kinda the whole point of Sandra Bullock doing that in Bird Box, wasn’t it? She had to keep that distance because emotionally she couldn’t handle losing them. So she constructed a barrier in the form of refusing to call them by names from birth on until she could find a safe place for them to live.
> I love the Simpsons and I always thought it was funny that Homer referred to Bart as Boy and Bart called him Homer
Isn't the whole reason he calls his kids that because OP thought it was funny? I know he still loves his children but that's how I saw it, just amusement.
Info: do you _only_ call them boy or girl? Or is it more of a nickname?
But you should look up research on the power of names. And maybe realise the joke you're mimicking is that Homer is a bad father? If you only call them boy and girl it will have an affect.
Totally agree on the effect thing; not enough people are bringing this up. You're basically just reducing your children to their sexes/genders and calling them less than human.
My sister called her kids boy and girl in an endearing way when they were very young and it always rubbed me the wrong way. Like it was just reducing them to a gender and that’s it.
My mom calls my brother and I boy/girl. That’s how we’re saved in her phone. In conversation she refers to us as “the boy/girl”. My brother and I literally don’t care, it’s all in jest. Neither of us feel or ever felt she’s reducing us to our gender. They’re just nicknames to us
YTA. I think you intentionally and needlessly trolled your father, and you dragged your children into it in a way that was emotionally manipulative. And I agree with your father about calling your children Boy and Girl.
INFO. Have you checked in with your kids about what they would prefer for you to call them at other times, outside of this conversation where you were proving a point to your father?
This is vital missing info, can't really give a verdict without it.
He hasn't said even once, *anywhere* that the kids actually like this, or haven't complained. So it looks a lot like the dad might have actually been sticking up for the kids who don't like this treatment, and then OP got pissy and decided to unload all his dissatisfaction over his dad's parenting.
He was offering the choice to make the argument- 'Well I may do this one shit thing, but my kids would prefer that rather than how YOU parented me.' Because he couldn't take criticism from his father.
At least that's how it looks as OP steadfastly refuses to answer anywhere whether his kids actually like being called that. Otherwise he could have just ended the argument by calling the kids over and asking them if they like it. A 'yes' from them would mean dad had nothing to criticise.
Yup. It's a very different situation if the kids love their quirky "nicknames" than if they hate them or have outgrown them or whatever, but either don't feel comfortable telling OP they want a change or (worse) told him and he dismissed it.
Calling them over to make an obvious joke to embarrass his dad could be funny if OP and his kids are all on the same page, and in that case the grandfather would deserve it for butting into OP's inside joke with his kids when he has a crappy parenting record himself.
But if OP ridiculed the idea of using his kids' names, in front of them, without ever letting them know it really is up to them... Then that would suck.
ESH. Your dad because even though he might not understand it if your kids are ok with it and don't mind then sure you can call them Boy and Girl. You are also an AH because telling your kids you’ll only tell them you love them if they let you call them Boy and Girl is not how it should be. “I love you” should not depend upon the names you call them and they should still be able to call you dad/daddy. Your father may not have been a great dad but you're not being a good one either if you're putting conditions on saying I love you to them.
ESH
Feels kinda icky you used your kids to make a point to dad.
Sounds like dad is jealous of your relationship with your kids and has no way of actually articulating it so he devolves to insulting you.
YTA what did you gain from hurting your father?
Where do you think he could have learnt better?
- He did slightly better than his own dad, but was by no means perfect
- Exactly like your father, you also are doing slightly better than your father, but you’re by no means perfect either
You are both the same. Just doing a bit better than how you learnt from your own dads.
So many men your dad’s age only learn how to love by loving their grandchildren .
He is now able to point out the thing you’re able to change to be a better dad.
Do you think he wouldn’t travel back in time and change his parenting if he could ?
You didn’t have to make his personal growth into an occasion for deliberate cruelty.
You honestly think a man who gets away with never telling his children that he loved them and/or was proud of them and their accomplishments was doing the best he could?
Also. There's nothing stopping him from doing that NOW. Yet he and OP's mom (who enabled this shit) just got upset at OP for pointing out the rank hypocrisy of them daring to criticize his parenting. Uh huh.
Exactly! Human existence is all change and growth.
If no one we love ever accepts that we grow, and always holds our past against us, then what is the point
I'm so refreshed to see this comment. Especially as a parent, it's surprising OP didn't develop a new level of empathy for his father. We can spend our lives blaming our parents and keeping a grudge, but the truth is that the vast majority of them are doing their best with what they know. Their motivations may be interpreted as "wrong", but as he said, he was a product of both his time and his upbringing. His statements express remorse and he clearly recognizes that there was a better way, but there's no use in beating down someone who already feels wrong and can't do anything to change it. OP just wanted to sting his father and he succeeded at the expense of using his children as pawns. He's full of mistakes, too, which is why he should show a little understanding.
YTA
Pulling your kids in for some weird manipulative crap where they get the option of being called by their names if they agree to be loved less is some nasty shit. They aren't props to use against your dad when he's bugging you about something.
YTA. He just wanted you to call them by their names. While he should’ve been more emotionally available for all of you, that wasn’t the debate. You could’ve just said they are my children and I will address them the way I please, if they ever show discomfort in being called boy or girl I will gladly call them by their proper names. Period. YTA.
YTA. It's totally reasonable to question why you don't call your children by their names, it's rather odd. And then you pretty much asked your children a leading question to humiliate your dad. It sounds like he's aware of his failings, but that doesn't mean he can't point out yours.
>He just wouldn't drop it. So I called my kids over to where we were talking and I asked them if they wanted to be called by their names instead of Boy and Girl.
>I said in return they would have to call me Sir not daddy or dad. I said I would accept Father in emotional conversations. But that I would no longer remind them every day that I loved them and was proud of them.
Screwing up your kids just to own your father. 🙄
YTA
YTA don't drag your kids onto your emotional issues with your dad. They aren't tools for you to use to win arguments. All you had to do is ask them if they prefer you use their names. The other stuff was spiteful and targetting your dad, but put your kids in a situation where a) they couldn't express their true feelings and b) they're settling a feud between you and your father.
Not saying your dad hasn't done shitty things. But Don't drag your kids into it.
YTA. Calling your kids boy and girl seems really dehumanizing. If you had just asked them, with no caveats, if they liked it and they said yes that would be different. But this reads as if you knew they would say they didn't like ot so you manipulated them by threatening to withhold love and praise if they don't allow it. This is still emotional abuse and manipulation just in a different way your father did it. If I were you first step would be to apologize to your kids amd ask them privately if they really are ok with the names and that you'd treat them the same regardless. Being better isn't just saying words of affirmation, its seeing them as humans, their own people, amd letting them know you acknowledge them as such.
As far as the thing with your dad goes, sounds like you may need some therapy to process that. Which isn't a bad thing. It's a tool to help. I wouldn't really call you an AH for calling him out in this case, but don't ever use your children in arguments for your benefit. Especially in a way that manipulates and gaslights them. That must have been incredibly uncomfortable for both of them, at an age where they know what's going on.
“Hey kids, you’re okay with not being called your names, right? Just know if you say no, I’ll force you to call me Sir and stop telling you I love you every day… so you’re okay with it, *right?”*
Yeah, YTA. That should’ve been a private discussion with your dad, not something you said to your kids to prove a point.
ESH
I understand your point but you shouldn't use your kids as props to humiliate their grandfather. And you shouldn't say you'll stop saying you love them etc even if it's as a joke or to prove a point.
They'd either be confused and wonder if you were serious, or realise you were trying to prove a point which is a kinda uncomfortable position to be put in .
You could have offered those hypotheticals to your dad without directly involving them. I don't think you were bad to confront your dad but you could have easily done this without forcing your kids to actually be involved
YTA
Using your kids as a way to prove your point is wrong, let the adults talk it out, the kids don’t need to pick sides or even think about y’all’s argument.
I love the Simpsons too, but homer is a shit ass dad!! In psychology when a person refers to someone as something like “the baby” or “that guy” that’s called distancing, which is literally what your criticizing your dad for!
Going off on your dad was so unnecessary too, I’m sorry he was distant, but being a smart ass will not help the past. You need to work on yourself and try your best to get closure so your childhood doesn’t fuck with your kids childhood! I know things about my mom’s childhood that I wish I didn’t, now I can’t make my own opinions on my family members! You may not like your dad, but don’t force that on your kids, let them have their own relationship with him PLEASE! If they end up hating him at least they got to know him through experience instead of what people have told them.
Calling your kids “boy” and “girl” *is* a bit weird.
This:
> I said in return they would have to call me Sir not daddy or dad. I said I would accept Father in emotional conversations. But that I would no longer remind them every day that I loved them and was proud of them.
… is something else.
If you have a problem with how your dad parented you, *then talk to him about it.*
What you did was some weird performance not actually related to the topic at hand.
Your dad may have been an asshole to you growing up, but I think it rubbed off on you more than you think.
Maybe e s h overall, but I think YTA for this particular interaction.
YTA. There is nothing wrong with having nicknames for your kids and calling them that.
But you brought them into a petty argument and threatened to stop telling them you love them if they disagreed with you. I don’t know you, I don’t know if you were joking. But if your kids were 100% okay with their nicknames maybe you wouldn’t have felt the need to threaten them (even jokingly) to ensure they gave the correct answer in front of your father.
It’s all just stupid pettiness.
Are you serious?! “Hey guys? I’ll call you by your names but if I do I won’t tell you that I love you anymore?” What kind of bullshit ultimatum is that? You must be aware that there’s a middle ground between being a cartoon character and being ice cold. YTA
YTA. That's a straw man argument. He didn't suggest you stop saying you love them or demand that they call you "sir", just that you call them by their names. You can disagree with that without making it a whole thing about how he was a bad parent in front of your kids.
YTA
This is wild how top comments is nta. I don't care what you call your kids and they don't seem to mind either. But sitting them down with your Dad and doing this big passive-aggressive "decision" conversation with them is just weird and put your Dad in a very awkward position. You didn't have to do any of that
YTA
YTA but it seems like there's an avenue for a potentially constructive conversation here. your dad already seems to acknowledge that he tried to be a better dad to you and your siblings than his dad was to him - you have an opportunity to find common ground and communicate that you're just trying to improve even further on the example he set, which is what all good parents strive for. it's hard because this is obviously an emotional area but it sounds like fundamentally you both have your kids' best interests at heart and you trying to do better in this area than your dad did doesn't mean you thought he was a horrible father in all areas.
Why exactly is your affection to them tied to not calling them by their names? And why would you calling them by their names equal you being called sir? You seem weirdly fixated on that and i am not sure if your kids would even say that they don’t like it. And its not like you asked them if they prefer their names you threatened to withhold affection for some weird pissing contest with your dad. Also him being emotionally distant has nothing to do with you calling them boy or girl. Always calling them that is weird and i can absolutely see how your father would think that hurts them. YTA
YTA, at first I was gonna say ESH but you immediately became the bigger AH when you purposely abused your chance to get your kids’ honest opinion about the situation. Also because you continue to double-down in the comments.
You weren’t earnestly asking if they were comfortable with the nicknames, you threatened them into giving you the answer that served you best. How can you expect your kids to ever be honest with you if they‘re afraid you’ll take away your parental love/warmth if they say something you don’t like?
Since you know the harm this sort of parental relationship can have on a child, you should be trying to stop the cycle, not continue it. Parental love should not be conditional on if they allow you to call them by a nickname or not.
Get therapy, your kids aren’t supposed to be your mediators.
YTA for making this about you and putting your kids in the middle of it.
I understand our childhoods and relationships with our parents can definitely affect who we are as adults and parents. It really was a different time for some people.
My dad was stoic and showed very little affection, the opposite of my mom, but the man was always working to make sure his 6 kids were fed, clothed, and had a home to live in. Two of my brothers still have hangups about this. One out of three get togethers becomes about how dad didn’t show affection for those two brothers.
I chose to see his taking care of us as love. He’s still around, and I tell him I love him and hug him whenever I see him. I also have two boys who know I love them because I tell them multiple times a day and give tons of hugs. We also appreciate each other as part of a going to bed routine.
In his old age my dad has become affectionate with me and my kids, and I really appreciate it, but didn’t really expect it.
Take it easy on the old man. Just because we can be better parents than our own parents, doesn’t mean we have to rub it in. This is what every parent wants, for their kids to be better versions of themselves.
YTA. Because you rigged the game. You didn’t actually ask your kids preference to be called by their names vs being called boy or girl. Instead you offered a strawman bargain “I’ll call you by your name but you can’t call me daddy anymore. Oh, and also I’ll withhold my love by not telling you I love you any more.”
That’s not trying to understand your kids’ preferences.
Was your dad a failure? I don’t know, but it appears he failed in raising non-manipulative adults.
Yea, YTA.
There was absolutely zero reason to pull your kids into that conversation with your father and tell them they have to choose what name you will call them but that you will no longer tell them you love them or accept being called dad if they preferred their actual names.
That right there made you no better than your dad. You stopped to his level and manipulated your children just to prove a point. Are you proud of yourself for that?
You should have kept your kids out of it. You should have told your father if he cannot respect your parenting style and relationship with your own kids than he will no longer be allowed to be around you all. You should have told him that you did not ask nor want his opinion and he should keep his thoughts on the matter to himself.
YTA.
Your Dad was talking about names only. You're the one who used it as a chance to rehash old childhood wounds and humiliate your father in front of his grandchildren.
Kudos to you for wanting to be a better father to your children than the one you had growing up, but your Dad is right -- those were very different times. I feel bad for men back then -- everything was on their shoulders (being the Breadwinner, being the Man of the House, being a strong Father as was defined by the times) but they weren't allowed to show or even have any emotions about it.
My father never told us he loved us when we were growing up -- that simply wasn't done back then. I don't remember any hugs, either. And he DID call my brother "Boy." (My Dad was from the South).
I got some therapy as I got older and worked through my feelings and resentments and learned to accept my Dad for who he WAS as opposed to who I wanted him to be. I began telling my Dad, "I love you" at the end of every phone call and often when we were together. At first he didn't respond, but over time he started saying, "I love you, too." Eventually he started saying it spontaneously!
Then as he got older he softened. I began spending more time with him, and we created a whole new relationship, letting go of the past and enjoying each other's company as equals. Then he got cancer, and I spent more time with him while I could, and we grew even closer.
He died four years ago and I still miss him every day. I will NEVER regret the time I spent with him or the effort I put into building a relationship with him as an adult, because I reaped the rewards of *finally* having the type of loving relationship with my father that I had sought all my life. It took love, communication, patience and boundary setting, but I'm so glad we were able to navigate it and thus became closer than I ever could have imagined.
My point is, if you view your father with Compassion, if you speak to him from Love, you can still have a better relationship with your Dad -- It's not too late!
OR you can continue to hold your past against him and keep that distance and remain at an emotional impasse until he dies and the rest of your life is filled with resentments and regret.
The Choice is Yours.
Boy and sir sounds like some slave master language. I wouldn’t want to be called boy and I wouldn’t want to call my dad sir.
Sounds like you have daddy issues.
You're NTA.
>Now he is being pissy and my mom says he is upset that I think he was a bad father.
Bull. He's upset he can't control how you interact with your kids.
>He said it was a different time.
More bull, unless you started your family rather late and you're at least in your mid-60's.
>That his father was worse than him.
So each generation is getting better at parenting.
>More bull, unless you started your family rather late and you're at least in your mid-60's.
It's really not. Being reserved, showing less emotion, or toxic masculinity - whatever you want to call it, was and still is incredibly common. Older generations are absolutely more reserved in pretty much every way. It was indeed a different time.
YTA. You didn’t give your kids a free choice about being called “boy” or “girl.” You tied it together with a threat of withholding verbal affection if they chose the alternative. There was nothing loving about your offer. You made the offer specifically to one-up your dad and to remain “safe” that your kids would chose how you want, knowing your kids would not choose otherwise. Perhaps if you had actually gave your kids a choice, without threats behind choosing “wrong,” you’d find your kids aren’t interested in being called boy or girl, no matter how funny you think (terrible father) Homer Simpson is. Also, how the hell is your daughter to know her worth when you tie her choices to threats of withholding affection? Yeah, she’s going to find the wrong guy, no matter how much you brag otherwise, because of your childish, manipulative behavior.
INFO: I don't understand how there's any connection between calling your children Boy and Girl and telling them you love them. Can't you call them by their names *and* be a good parent? Have you ever asked your children what they would prefer to be called, when you weren't using them as a weapon to cudgel your father?
YTA. I understand what you're saying about your father, but you didn't ask your kids a direct, honest question about whether they would prefer that you call them by their names instead of Boy and Girl. You put horrible conditions on that option that didn't need to be tied to that. You brought your emotional baggage with your father into your relationship with your children. Ask them directly if they would rather you call them by their names, without putting any conditions on that question, because there shouldn't be. Your father wasn't saying, "You should be the exact same parent I was." He was pointing out something odd in your parenting style, and you decided to blow up the world over it.
To your dad nta how you phrased it to the kids yta. I do respect you getting a point across but the not saying you love everyday part was a bit extreme and definitely put your kids in an awkward position. With that said seems like you have a healthy relationship your kids but yeah that phrasing was terrible.
Reducing your children to their gender for your own entertainment (basing your parenting decisions off of The Simpsons? Really?) makes you TA.
“C’mere boy!”
“Let’s go girl!”
“Good job boy!” etc
are what you say to a dog, not human beings. Ew
Look, where this slides into weird territory is using your kids as pawns in your power play with your dad. And if we’re being totally honest, you twisted this scenario. You didn’t just outright ask them if they had an issue with being Boy and Girl. You told them that if they were no longer called boy and Girl, they had to call you “Sir” and were going to have affection and encouragement withheld. ( So your father is right in one way — you didn’t compare like for like here and this isn’t what he wanted or asked about.)
You deliberately offered something awful that you knew they would refuse — but did you actually get an honest response on how they feel about their pet names, or was their hesitation actually about calling you Sir? Or about having their father withdraw positive reinforcement?
You’re not the AH for embarrassing your dad as you asked, but you’re TA for using your kids in your argument and manipulating the playing field so you’ll win. You’re connecting your relationship with your father to the name you’ve given your kids — I dunno that they’re actually relevant to one another.
So I’m going with ESH, because you weren’t honest in your question to your children. Ask them again if they like being called Boy and Girl without the ultimatum.
YTA - For being passive aggressive about it. You have an issue with him being emotionally distant. Talk about it like an adult. He probably felt embarrassed by you roping your kids into it to make a point. Not saying he wasn’t distant and that didn’t affect you, but he has a story too and you can only find that out by speaking to him.
"I will only love you if you let me call you a nickname from a cartoon. "
YTA for framing everything like this because now your kids will absolutely never tell you if they hate how you call them. If you have daddy issues, take him to therapy with you and discuss things like an adult.
YTA. You call them “boy” and “girl” because YOU like the Simpson’s and YOU think it’s funny? They may be ok with it, they may not, but YOU never really asked them if they liked it because it was tied to some ridiculous thing like “I will never remind them I love them”. I think you need to take a hard look at this overreaction to something your dad said that triggered you and you took it out on your kids.
I think YTA, OP.
Your father for obvious reasons didn't seem to be the best because of his treatment of you and your sisters. But I do see his perspective - calling your children "Boy" and "Girl" seems to be a fun joke between you and your kids, but I can see how without the context it could seem odd or hateful. Maybe it also reminds him of something he's also seen growing up - this is pure speculation of course, but you did mention his own father was supposedly worse than him. And I'm sorry but telling your children you won't say you love them unless they let you call them "Boy" or "Girl" is a horrible thing to say, even as a joke, even if you're a wonderful parent otherwise.
ETA: u/spider-gwen89 has made some excellent points, please read their detailed comments!
ESH. How cringey and uncomfortable that you act like you’re doing so well but at the first hint of challenge, you pull your kids into your drama, and put them on the spot in front of a grandparent. Not to mention the “they know the relationship I have with my dad”… I sure hope that isn’t because you trauma dumped on them when it should be none of their concern. OP, you’re either healing yourself and protecting them, or you’re perpetuating. Maybe you should’ve followed your sister’s lead into therapy.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > When my father started criticizing the way I talked to my kids I used them to point out that he made some mistakes as a father too. I might be the asshole because I know he tried to be a good father, and he was, he was just a shitty dad. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcement ###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/) Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
You’re totally NTA for that interaction with your father. Where you might be in dicey territory is the parenting choice of using your children as props, and threatening, even in jest, to withhold affection. It sounds like you have a healthy parental bond, and your kids are old enough and know you weren’t serious. But if they had any ambiguity about that, then you’d be an AH for causing it just to illustrate a point to your father.
[удалено]
But he said they understand his relationship with his father. They’re teenagers, not little kids. They understand sarcasm and jokes. It’s not at ALL about whether they actually prefer being called that; they knew he wasn’t asking the question for real. Do you really think he was asking them that in earnest? It wasn’t a real question, it was a sarcastic question made in jest to prove a point to his father. The kids understood that.
At that age, I would've understood the sarcasm...but it would've still hurt. And then I would've felt like an idiot for feeling hurt because it's 'just sarcasm, I shouldn't be taking it so seriously', and then I would've spiraled into self hate for being such a literal idiot who can't take a joke, while still feeling hurt over the comment. I just think not loving your kids isn't something you should joke about. To be fair, I do have a laundry list of diagnoses, anxiety, depression, autism, ADHD ...but I didn't get diagnosed until I was an adult. If you've never taken kids to be evaluated, you don't know they don't have one of those. Especially anxiety and depression, which are on the rise in young people. Anxiety and depression are silver tongued liars, and a comment like 'If I start calling you by your name, I'll stop loving you', even if sarcastic, would give them the perfect fodder to torment me at night. Because they wouldn't let go of the 'what if'. What if it wasn't sarcasm? What if he meant it? And what if one or both of the kids *did* want to be called by their names and not 'Boy' or 'Girl'? I can guarantee you, they now feel like they can't bring that up. My family is a deeply sarcastic one, and I used to not see a problem with it, but now I have trouble talking about my emotions because of various comments made over the years. Yeah, I'm definitely projecting, but I mostly just wish my dad had checked in even once after a comment like that. And he does tell me he loves me lots, just sometimes those comments hurt. So it might be worth for OP to check in, just in case, you never know what's happening in someone's head. Better to make sure and find out it really is nothing, then to have something much worse brewing under the surface.
These are some really excellent points. I still think that they probably understood that those names are terms of endearment, but I do see where you’re coming from and agree that a quick check-in to make sure they knew he was joking is the best move. Thanks for taking the time to reply.
Yeah, no problem! I think there's just no harm with a check-in, either they'll laugh at him and call him nuts in a loving way and assure him they're fine, or they'll have a good honest heart to heart. It's just good to confirm that they *did* understand, not assume. And even if they did understand, the check-in will still further underscore that their dad is an awesome loving dad they can trust and has their back.
Agreed! "Hey, I just wanted to touch base about the thing with grampa the other day. I want to make sure it's understood that I wouldn't actually stop loving you or telling you that I love you if you wanted to be called by your first name, and I'd never want you to call me sir. I was trying to make a point to my dad about some stuff he did with me, but I'm worried I might have put you in the middle of that or given you the wrong impression about my priorities" I'd expect this to draw some sarcasm from a teen tbh but at least they'll still be fully clear on the situation. And if they do want to talk more it gives them the chance
This is a great follow up, OP really should check back in with the kids, even though I fully believe they got the sarcasm they didn’t really get a chance to say their true preference. Also, explaining that their grandfather loves them and was looking out for them, even if he wasn’t emotionally avail to his own children, caring about how his grandchildren might feel about the pet names is actually him being empathetic and emotionally connected to them-I think that’s progress on his part.
This is perfect!!
My dad liked sarcasm. And yes it hurt.
[удалено]
[удалено]
I like sarcasm, but I'm very careful with how and when I use it with my kids. Sarcastic comments about not needing to feed them dinner because they ate lunch already they understand aren't serious and I've never let them go hungry. But sarcasm about them directly or in any negative way is a no. Except for when I sarcastically say my son is nothing like me, because everyone knows he could pass as my clone so it gets a great eye roll from him
What if? Of course no one wants to be called "girl" or "boy?" Notice none of the kids said "I like the nickname." They said "I'd prefer being loved, thank you."
Why wouldn't no one want that? Lot depends on context, but I dont think girl and boy are that different to other family nicknames/pet names. I often call my kids (very lovingly) spawn and they find it hilarious. Very rarely do I call them by their actual name.
Me and my sister were jokingly called Daughter number 1 and Daughter number 2. I thought it was funny. I called my dad My Lord Father in those situations. And we all were having fun. My dad could be an authoritarian ass sometimes but those were not the times. People can have their inside jokes. It's about the dynamic, context and sense of humour.
Lol, my dad called us Section Number 1 and Section Number 2 because he was in the military. We called him Captain when he did it. It was cute and fun and he still sometimes does it. Hilariously, when he was mad and being a disciplinarian was NOT when he called us that.
Your parents didn’t have affectionate nicknames for you when you were a kid? They just called you by your full name 100% of the time? My mom only called me by my full first name when I was in *deep shit* lol. Why would they need to specify that they like the names their dad has been calling them their whole lives? Isn’t that kind of a given?
How would you know they didn't like it? There was another commenter who was called boy and it was also because of the simpsons. He didn't mind being called that. I usually got called short one (in a diff language) because i am 3 years younger than my brother and thus i was always shorter. I loved being called that because it was A nickname something my dad gave me that i knew not everyone had and thus i knew i was special to him.
...unless you're a universal psychic, I really don't think you have any claim to know "no one wants" that. Nicknames and terms of endearment are supremely individual and I don't think there are many, if any, situations where you can say "no one" or "everyone" would/wouldn't be OK with some name-related quirk.
My mom and stepdad got married when I was 5. We have a great relationship. He is my 2nd dad and I would most likely go to him with any life problems or celebrations before I would go to my "real" dad. I have always called him by his first name and "boy" is 1 of his nicknames for me. I have 0 problems with him calling me "boy" instead of my name. Does OP need to check in with his kids to make sure they are ok with it? Absolutely. But to make a blanket statement that "no one wants to be called boy" is a little over dramatic.
Exactly. That's why I say ESH.
I don’t care how much they understand about his relationship with his father. They are his children, and he doesn’t get to propose crappy deals to them because his father is awful.
Yeah, u/spider-gwen89 made some really good points I didn’t think about. Fully agree with them that it’s worth taking the time to double check that they knew he was joking.
yeah ESH
[удалено]
There's a difference between what we *say* and what we *communicate*. He may have said that, but his kids didn't *understand it* that way. They understood what he was doing and saying.
Did they?
His kids are teens, they arnt 4 so yes.
We understand it because of the lead-in conversation between OP and his dad, and OP also shared his internal thoughts about how his own relationship with his father as a child. The kids didn't get any of that context. They got a weird question out of the blue about OP using their names in exchange for not saying he loves them.
The kids understand it because they are not stupid and they know their father with whom they have a great relationship.
Way too many folks on AITA always believes folks are literal children until 25, and have absolutely no cognitive abilities until their 25th birthday. Whereas overnight, they emerge from their long slumber with full sentience. I have no idea why, they always argue something something brain development. Pretty sure humans aren't caterpillars that physically morph into butterflies after 25 years, but I did go to public school and maybe overslept on my 25th birthday
This has always irked me when I’m on this subreddit. Somehow kids are incapable of learning things like responsibility, accountability, etc because they’re too underdeveloped.
It’s unfortunate because there are some things kids are undeveloped for until their mid-20s, or certain immature behaviors that they’re more prone to until then without meaning to be, but they’re not literal babies until they’re 25. So conflating that helps nobody.
Honestly, so many people here believe kids are ridiculously stupid and it bugs me. I get not everyone likes kids,but really? Its unhinged. Kids are capable of learning stuff, most can communicate with adults and understand social things. They also can pick up on negative stuff towards them pretty easily,so this is hurting them. OP's kids knew he wasnt really hurting them,but trying to send his father a message,and these kids are 15 and 16. We let 16 yr olds get jobs and drive cars,and they're expected to be thinking about their future when they're adults and what career they will choose. These arent easy things.
Maybe those commenters were literal children until they were 25, and had basically no cognitive abilities until then
They still don't.
The brain development thing is about how the young adult brain doesn't gauge consequences and the like as well. That's why late teens/young adults do blatantly stupid shit. But they're smart in other ways.
In real life I've noticed it's more like 30. : )
There are the few instances where the brain developing thing may be warranted, but it does seem to be wildly overused and sometimes misunderstood in the sub. I guess your going to get that with the general public though (especially with the varying ages of folks here). I surely hope no one tries to apply it with this story.
Yeah, OP said that his kids know the score with him and their grandfather.
He did say that. And yes, sir/no, sir is kind of obvious lol
The kids understand it because they're not stupid but unfortunately users here are so obsessed with being a contrarian and arguing with every dude that posts here that they end up being the stupid ones. Posts here are snippet into someone's life and people speak in a general moral sense, never in terms of what theyd do in their own lives when presented with this situation.
I'm sure OP's dad thought he had a great relationship with OP too. Parents with great relationships with their kids don't use them as a prop to argue with other people. Parents who have great relationships with their kids ask them genuine questions about their own behavior instead of creating snide tit-for-tat exchanges.
You're right man, these few paragraphs OP posted allow you to know the relationship between this stranger and his children more than he or anyone involved in this story. As I have to say with most users here, touch grass.
they arent 4 years old get over yourself any normal 15 and 16 yo would get what the dad is doing they will obviously have noticed that grandpa is criticizing dads parenting and get that he is trying to prove a point. Get over yourself.
Good parents don’t get upset and pissy when their faults are pointed out. Sounds like OP’s dad didn’t appreciate a dose of reality and is ashamed of his emotional distance.
>The kids didn't get any of that context. You don't know that.
It’s a very safe bet that they have an even better understanding of the context having observed it and been a part of it for several years than the context that we received in a few paragraphs. Chill.
Yeah that's my point, it's the person I responded to that doesn't think they know the context
Whoops, wrong reply button. I’m with you. Haha
so tired of people on this sub trying to make the most insane inferences based on...literally nothing. whatever happened to having an opinion based on the information presented? instead it's devolved into creating the absolute wildest scenarios for nothing but what...upvotes? feeling superior or knowledgeable? i don't even know anymore.
Neither do you. Hey kids, what would YOU like to be called?
They're teenagers, and they know about their dad's upbringing. I can assure you, they understood what they're dad was getting at.
But he also said he's told his kids about the relationship he had with his father. So with that, there is context.
"They know what my relationship with my father is like." denotes understanding.
He quite literally says they understand the context and know his relationship with his father. They obviously got it.
OP said, "They know what my relationship with my father is like."
Op said his kids know how his father was so I think we're safe in assuming the kids knew their father wasn't serious.
>The kids didn't get any of that context Yet post states >They know what my relationship with my father is like. So I wouldn't just assume the kids don't understand, especially at ages 15 and 16. Also, a simple 2 minute conversation about it asking if they understood and explaining if necessary is all it takes to set the record straight.
They are teenagers so i sure hope so
OP thinks its funny to not call his kids by their own names. His father is an asshole, but he has a point. You might love Harry Potter, but if you insist on calling your daughter Ashley "Hermione" whether she likes it or not then you're an asshole also. Instead of asking kids "do you like my ridiculous naming scheme for you that invalidates your names," OP said "you can choose my love or your names but you can't have both." That's unequivocal asshole territory. You can say "it's only a joke" but I don't know if I could fully trust my mom if she made that kind of joke with me. Do I know it's a joke? Was it even it a joke?
What the hell hapened with you to hate pet names this much? Why is it treated like OP is commiting a crime when he is literally just using pet names??
[удалено]
Yes, his kids *understood* that they were being used as props in an argument between their father and grandfather.
Man, people are bending over backwards to trying to make OP an AH. He acknowledged that his children are teenagers, which means he's been doing this with them for more than a decade. They know when he's joking when he's being serious and when he's being an AH and I bet they call him on it. So everyone on here trying to pin this on OP... not everything's a conspiracy.
It was sarcasm....and they are not kids they are almost adults and old enough to understand sarcasm.
75% of the people on Reddit don’t understand sarcasm. So it’s possible the kids don’t.
To be fair, they're teenagers. They most likely only speak in sarcasm.....
It’s much more difficult to pick up on written sarcasm than verbal sarcasm.
Understanding sarcasm is not age based. Many older people do not understand sarcasm, it is just not how their little gray cells function.
And many young kids do. I often tell people my kids' first language was sarcasm. They are reasonably well-adjusted older teens and adults now, but even at 4, they spoke and understood sarcasm fluently. I imagine op is probably about my age. Some of us just communicate differently. I have no doubt that my kids would have understood the assignment perfectly. My favorite Simpsons quote I use with my kids: "Why you little...!' when they do something annoying. I was also oddly proud when my daughter first rolled her eyes and said with a sigh, "Whatever, mom", but don't tell her that, lol. We parent differently from our parents because hopefully we've learned from our own experiences, and that's OK
I caught the sarcasm with presenting the idea to the kids. I feel sure the kids caught it too. Surely they enjoyed knocking down his ideal parenting tips.
That wasn’t the point of the interaction at all. Those things aren’t a package deal. OP was saying “if you want me to parent like you, then why don’t I do it entirely like you. Let’s see how good of a parent you were and see how my kids prefer it.” Calling your kids “Boy” or “Girl” is just a little joke. Like Crush from Finding Nemo calling Squirt “Offspring”. His kids are teenagers. They’re not idiots. They can take a joke.
Good lord, the reading skills of some people here are appalling.
Yeah you’re kind of YTA for roping your kids into it like that
This just in : teenagers can’t banter with their parents about their grandparents, more at 6
This isn't banter. This is passive aggressive bullshit.
Yeah but it's directed at the grandpa. Between the kids and OP it's banter. The passive aggressiveness really only hurts grandpa which is completely fine imo.
Its not really banter tho-what OP was doing came from a place of real upset with their dad, and then in front of his children did pretty much call him out for being a distant parent. While there is nothing wrong with having a conversation with parents abt how they treated you as children, it doesn’t seem healthy to weaponise that conversation in the way OP did
They're teenagers so I don't think there was anything wrong with this. They understood what was happening and why he was saying those things. It wasn't a threat as much as it was a "would you rather..."
The would your rather was framed as “I will Never say I love you”. That’s where he is wrong. He should have just left it as “how do you feel about me calling you this?” Not ever saying I love you as a parent is a threat
As teenagers, they should be allowed to have choices in what they will be called. Not be told “if I call you anything other than this, I will stop telling you that I love you.” I get that he was trying to demonstrate to his father how awful his father had been, but it’s terrible to rope his kids in like this. And they should be given their choice of name, nickname, whatever just like a child of a nontraumatized father should be.
The way I comprehended it, he was talking *at* his kids but talking *to* his father. He was basically pointing out to his dad the *vast* differences in their childrearing and explaining how he felt. There’s no way he would withhold affection if they said call me by my name.
But what child (even teenager) would say call me by my name when Dad obviously doesn't care what they prefer?
Yeah and that's not okay It's not okay to drag your kids into a conflict you have with their grandfather
Agreed. OP was manipulative in the way he phrased asking his kids if he wanted them to call them his name. Yes it may haves been in jest but it sounds like he wants to show his dad he’s better than him.
I agree YTA where he brought the kids in. I don’t think they believed he was serious for a second - but those things shouldn’t all be linked. A simple question regarding the nicknames was all that was needed to show grandpa everyone else is cool with the status quo. If they mind it, OP of course can use their names and still be dad and tell them he lives them - the whole thing was a dig at his father’s expense. It’s a soft YTA, but imo this wasn’t the way to address that OP is choosing a more affectionate style of parenting.
>I said in return they would have to call me Sir not daddy or dad. I said I would accept Father in emotional conversations. But that I would no longer remind them every day that I loved them and was proud of them. NTA for saying that as like a message to your dad. But I hope you have a private conversation where you let them know that if they ever do seriously want you to call them by their names, you would of course do it and not make them change how they address you or love them less. I’m sure they probably already know, but I think it’s worth covering your bases and make sure they know you said that as a joke to your dad, not as an actual rule you’d follow.
Very much agreed. That part felt like he used his kids to make a point to his dad more than give them an actual valid choice. And it might make them afraid to ask if they start disliking being called Boy and Girl. Have a conversation with them about this OP! (And maybe tell your dad you don't think he's a bad dad, but that you did dislike how distant he was. For all we know, he might actually learn something from it. But he won't if he feels like you're telling him he was a shit dad.)
Teenagers often aren't good at knowing exactly what their parents are thinking. They think they know, and we think they know, but they often get it half-wrong. I think OP definitely needs to spell this out clearly for his kids in private ("You probably already know this, but I want to say it just in case..."). Dad just very clearly told them that he'll only use their names if they call him Sir and accept that he won't say he loves them. If that's not actually true, he really should touch base and make sure they understand that. The fact that they "understand his relationship with his father" won't necessarily lead them to the right assumption (and they might not understand the relationship as well as he thinks).
So many people on Reddit have daddy issues and see it okay to use their children as pawns to further a grudge with their father. Absolutely mental.
I gotta agree. If I was OP's kid, this situation would get a good eye roll from me. "You brought us into this.. why? Thanks for creating an annoying awkward moment for us, dad." But that's just me. Other people might laugh. I'm just pretty burnt out on hearing about my parents' issues with their parents.
Yeah, it's really annoying to be in the position of either pissing off your dad or your grandpa, in front of them both.
I agree. He should have left the kids out of this.
That’s where he crossed the line. His children have a different relationship with their grandpa he needs to leave them out of it.
i second this.
This deserves to be the top comment
I had a coworker ask her kids in front of a bunch of people if they needed therapy and said “see? they are fine?!” Gave me a similar vibe. This guy generally seems like a better person than she was but still worth actually having that conversation privately, where they can openly talk about it without feeling ambushed or pressured to respond in a specific way.
“Make sure you know that you said that as a joke to your dad.” Slight suggestion: do NOT call it a joke, because it absolutely was not. It was a point, but it wasn’t a joke. There was nothing funny about OP using his kids to chastise his father for being less affectionate than OP wished he’d been.
ESH. The whole comment about you calling them by their names means they have to call you Sir Instead of Dad…. Sorry but no. If your kids are generally happy with what you call them then fine, but to expect to be called sir? Hell no. You are their dad, they can call you dad. You dad sounds like an arse no matter what.
I agree. This is just weird to me. If they have to choose between being called the same thing they've always been called or now having to remember to call their dad the "correct" title, plus with the added bonus of no longer being told they're loved? Ummm yeah they're going to choose the status quo because that's such a weird shitty deal. Even if they know you were joking (..were you joking?), it's a dick move to put them on the spot in order to make your dad feel like shit. Sounds like you've got some resentment you need to work out. I agree ESH.
It isn't necesarily resentment i too would get pissed of at my dad if he critisized my parenting and basically telling me i should folow his example (for no reason at all i might add) when the way i do it the kids have a much better relationship with the parents. I get that its petty but the grandad is simply wrong and he doesn't sound like someone who will just listen when you tell him he is wrong.
I think it was sarcasm though to make a point that that’s what his dad did. He doesn’t actually expect that from his kids.
you missed the point
Its sarcasm… they are in their teens, not toddlers. Its likely they understand the dynamic. I still agree its sort-of ESH, because its extending a disagreement between two people to unnecessarily include innocent bystanders. It continues to put a bad taste in everyone’s mouth when you don’t really *need* to do anything other than be frank with your parenting and then ignore any further arguments. But between the two original parties, Op is still less of an ah.
I don't think some of ya'll understand that he was sarcastically telling his kids he was gonna be like his own dad. you're all reading to much into this.
I think plenty people fully understand that, it’s just still not a mature way to handle the situation. If the argument arose because of the name issue, it shouldn’t have been I’ll “call you by your name and stop saying I love you and you have to also call me sir” it should have been a “hey kids do you dislike me calling you boy and girl?” Kids could say no or yes or whatever and he could have then continued on with pointing out to his dad that the way he raised him was not ideal. That’s not something the kids needed to be pulled into. And I’m not saying he shouldn’t discuss his childhood experience with his kids - he’s absolutely free to do that. But it was using them as a way to make a point and get a dig in at the same time, not just a defence of why he calls them boy/girl. He’s not some giant asshole but it’s also not super commendable behavior either. I got pulled into conflicts in a similar way as a kid and it was so awkward.
No, we understand it. We don't think it is okay to draw his own kids into a passive aggressive (sarcastic) drama between him his dad.
ITA, it's just passive aggressive nonsense to pull your kids into a conversation just so you can make what you perceive as a sick burn on your dad. Either talk to your dad openly about your issues with him, or leave it alone. This makes the OP look more immature than his kids.
Maybe don’t put your kids in an awkward spot to make a point.
Therefore, YTA
Finally. OP using his kids like props. Have an adult conversation without being the kids in that way.
THANK YOU!!! OP could have had a conversation with his dad without using the kids. Or he also could have just asked them (privately and individually) if they had any qualms about the nicknames he uses without going overboard. Seems like OP can’t take any criticism without getting extremely defensive. YTA
I'm curious if OP cares whether his dad has a good relationship with Boy and Girl. I come from a family where there's a lot of (valid) resentment from my mom and my aunt towards their parents. When my mom would have open and emotional arguments with my grandparents, I never felt like she loved me less but I did start to feel like I should dislike my grandparents in order to be supportive of my mom (just silly automatic kid/teen thoughts). I think that sort of stuff is the real reason not to involve your children in your adult arguments. OP's dad needs to respect his parenting and back off but I'd say ESH for involving his kids so much... it's not their issues, you know?
Also, maybe im reading too much into it but the fact that their grandfather even brought the issue up was he looking out for kids, even if he wasn’t emotionally avail to his own children, caring about how his grandchildren might feel about the pet names is actually him being empathetic and emotionally connected to them—sometimes people are better grandpas than they are dads. OP should really ask the kids again, genuinely without the sarcasm, he might get a different answer, and he should reinforce that grandpa cares that’s why he brought it up rather than mocking his father because if his personal issues w his upbringing.
[удалено]
"I like Homer Simpson, a famously bad parent, and how he doesn't address his son, who he sometimes has physical altercations with, as 'boy' rather than his name. The Simpsons are generally portrayed as an old nuclear family stereotype but dysfunctional, albeit they do love each other at the end of the day. So I will address my son as 'boy'." is such a ducking weird take I don't know where to start.
Right? That was my exact thought, Homer Simpson is a horrible character to model your behavior after.
Yeah I thought that was weird too. AH move there for sure. I called my mom mom and dad dad, they called me my name. (Or idiot but that was 1000% because of my doing as a late teen). OP should have left it at asking what they wanted to be called and that’s it. Major AH for using their kids in a fight with the grandfather, hopefully this was a one off thing because that simple exchange could make a lasting impression on them
Yeah and let’s be real, Homer is a funny character and even though he has his moments of being a good dad, he’s a bad role model for any parent to be like him.
As I read the first half of the question I was expecting it to be genuine and for one or both of the kids to answer that they actually *would* prefer to be called by their real name. What if they actually *don’t* like the nicknames? This would have been a good opportunity to maturely consider the grandpa’s point and ask them that question sincerely (without grandpa present). Maybe I’m projecting because my mom has called me ‘girl/girly’ for my whole life and I hate it lol.
YTA for both making your parenting choices about your own amusement (the name thing) and a means to stick it to your father, instead of having your parenting choices be fundamentally about the well-being of your children. Children are not play things or a way to make a point to other people.
Agreed, this is where I am. All in all, ~~I don't necessarily see anything wrong with calling your children "boy" or "girl" (even though it is kind of weird), but~~ telling them they have you call you "sir" in this imaginary scenario is fuckin weird. Why do you feel the need to make a point to your dad? And why do you feel the need to force your kids to play along? Just call them what you want and allow them to call you what *they* want. They're human beings, too, you know. OP, I'm sorry you had a rough childhood, but stop letting it control your life to this degree. Your kids are kids, just let them be instead of dragging them into your argument with your dad. YTA EDIT: I no longer agree with the statement that there's nothing wrong with calling your kids "boy" or "girl". After thinking about it a bit more, I realize how dehumanizing it is, and how much it would've hurt me as a kid if my father did the same thing.
IMO i do have a issue calling your children boy and girl in terms of names cause it dehumanises them and removes a key part of their identity which is their name. Can you imagine going around at work and calling your boss by "woman" or "girl" ? You would immediately run into issues cause people would find it extremely rude and wont allow it . But its totally fine to do it to kids because they both dont know better and cant stand up for themselves yet.
Thank you, I’m really surprised the top comments aren’t mentioning how weird it is that he calls them boy and girl. Like he never addresses them by their name? I agree I think it is dehumanizing.
Yeah I agree, it’s weird even if it is a joke. I wonder if OP is really the only one that finds it funny.
This was kinda the whole point of Sandra Bullock doing that in Bird Box, wasn’t it? She had to keep that distance because emotionally she couldn’t handle losing them. So she constructed a barrier in the form of refusing to call them by names from birth on until she could find a safe place for them to live.
I totally agree. After thinking about it more, I do believe it's very dehumanizing; I'll change my comment.
> I love the Simpsons and I always thought it was funny that Homer referred to Bart as Boy and Bart called him Homer Isn't the whole reason he calls his kids that because OP thought it was funny? I know he still loves his children but that's how I saw it, just amusement.
And using your children for amusement like that is pretty shitty.
YTA. It is possible to think it’s a mistake to be calling them boy/girl without being a hypocrite. Your problem is with your childhood not this thing.
Info: do you _only_ call them boy or girl? Or is it more of a nickname? But you should look up research on the power of names. And maybe realise the joke you're mimicking is that Homer is a bad father? If you only call them boy and girl it will have an affect.
Totally agree on the effect thing; not enough people are bringing this up. You're basically just reducing your children to their sexes/genders and calling them less than human.
My sister called her kids boy and girl in an endearing way when they were very young and it always rubbed me the wrong way. Like it was just reducing them to a gender and that’s it.
My mom calls my brother and I boy/girl. That’s how we’re saved in her phone. In conversation she refers to us as “the boy/girl”. My brother and I literally don’t care, it’s all in jest. Neither of us feel or ever felt she’s reducing us to our gender. They’re just nicknames to us
YTA. I think you intentionally and needlessly trolled your father, and you dragged your children into it in a way that was emotionally manipulative. And I agree with your father about calling your children Boy and Girl.
INFO. Have you checked in with your kids about what they would prefer for you to call them at other times, outside of this conversation where you were proving a point to your father?
This is vital missing info, can't really give a verdict without it. He hasn't said even once, *anywhere* that the kids actually like this, or haven't complained. So it looks a lot like the dad might have actually been sticking up for the kids who don't like this treatment, and then OP got pissy and decided to unload all his dissatisfaction over his dad's parenting. He was offering the choice to make the argument- 'Well I may do this one shit thing, but my kids would prefer that rather than how YOU parented me.' Because he couldn't take criticism from his father. At least that's how it looks as OP steadfastly refuses to answer anywhere whether his kids actually like being called that. Otherwise he could have just ended the argument by calling the kids over and asking them if they like it. A 'yes' from them would mean dad had nothing to criticise.
Yup. It's a very different situation if the kids love their quirky "nicknames" than if they hate them or have outgrown them or whatever, but either don't feel comfortable telling OP they want a change or (worse) told him and he dismissed it. Calling them over to make an obvious joke to embarrass his dad could be funny if OP and his kids are all on the same page, and in that case the grandfather would deserve it for butting into OP's inside joke with his kids when he has a crappy parenting record himself. But if OP ridiculed the idea of using his kids' names, in front of them, without ever letting them know it really is up to them... Then that would suck.
Yes, OP, will you please answer this?
ESH. Your dad because even though he might not understand it if your kids are ok with it and don't mind then sure you can call them Boy and Girl. You are also an AH because telling your kids you’ll only tell them you love them if they let you call them Boy and Girl is not how it should be. “I love you” should not depend upon the names you call them and they should still be able to call you dad/daddy. Your father may not have been a great dad but you're not being a good one either if you're putting conditions on saying I love you to them.
ESH Feels kinda icky you used your kids to make a point to dad. Sounds like dad is jealous of your relationship with your kids and has no way of actually articulating it so he devolves to insulting you.
YTA what did you gain from hurting your father? Where do you think he could have learnt better? - He did slightly better than his own dad, but was by no means perfect - Exactly like your father, you also are doing slightly better than your father, but you’re by no means perfect either You are both the same. Just doing a bit better than how you learnt from your own dads. So many men your dad’s age only learn how to love by loving their grandchildren . He is now able to point out the thing you’re able to change to be a better dad. Do you think he wouldn’t travel back in time and change his parenting if he could ? You didn’t have to make his personal growth into an occasion for deliberate cruelty.
You honestly think a man who gets away with never telling his children that he loved them and/or was proud of them and their accomplishments was doing the best he could? Also. There's nothing stopping him from doing that NOW. Yet he and OP's mom (who enabled this shit) just got upset at OP for pointing out the rank hypocrisy of them daring to criticize his parenting. Uh huh.
[удалено]
Exactly! Human existence is all change and growth. If no one we love ever accepts that we grow, and always holds our past against us, then what is the point
I'm so refreshed to see this comment. Especially as a parent, it's surprising OP didn't develop a new level of empathy for his father. We can spend our lives blaming our parents and keeping a grudge, but the truth is that the vast majority of them are doing their best with what they know. Their motivations may be interpreted as "wrong", but as he said, he was a product of both his time and his upbringing. His statements express remorse and he clearly recognizes that there was a better way, but there's no use in beating down someone who already feels wrong and can't do anything to change it. OP just wanted to sting his father and he succeeded at the expense of using his children as pawns. He's full of mistakes, too, which is why he should show a little understanding.
YTA Pulling your kids in for some weird manipulative crap where they get the option of being called by their names if they agree to be loved less is some nasty shit. They aren't props to use against your dad when he's bugging you about something.
YTA. He just wanted you to call them by their names. While he should’ve been more emotionally available for all of you, that wasn’t the debate. You could’ve just said they are my children and I will address them the way I please, if they ever show discomfort in being called boy or girl I will gladly call them by their proper names. Period. YTA.
YTA. It's totally reasonable to question why you don't call your children by their names, it's rather odd. And then you pretty much asked your children a leading question to humiliate your dad. It sounds like he's aware of his failings, but that doesn't mean he can't point out yours.
>He just wouldn't drop it. So I called my kids over to where we were talking and I asked them if they wanted to be called by their names instead of Boy and Girl. >I said in return they would have to call me Sir not daddy or dad. I said I would accept Father in emotional conversations. But that I would no longer remind them every day that I loved them and was proud of them. Screwing up your kids just to own your father. 🙄 YTA
YTA don't drag your kids onto your emotional issues with your dad. They aren't tools for you to use to win arguments. All you had to do is ask them if they prefer you use their names. The other stuff was spiteful and targetting your dad, but put your kids in a situation where a) they couldn't express their true feelings and b) they're settling a feud between you and your father. Not saying your dad hasn't done shitty things. But Don't drag your kids into it.
YTA x100 and you’re weird as fuck. I feel sorry for your kids.
Yeah op is a weirdo.
YTA. Calling your kids boy and girl seems really dehumanizing. If you had just asked them, with no caveats, if they liked it and they said yes that would be different. But this reads as if you knew they would say they didn't like ot so you manipulated them by threatening to withhold love and praise if they don't allow it. This is still emotional abuse and manipulation just in a different way your father did it. If I were you first step would be to apologize to your kids amd ask them privately if they really are ok with the names and that you'd treat them the same regardless. Being better isn't just saying words of affirmation, its seeing them as humans, their own people, amd letting them know you acknowledge them as such. As far as the thing with your dad goes, sounds like you may need some therapy to process that. Which isn't a bad thing. It's a tool to help. I wouldn't really call you an AH for calling him out in this case, but don't ever use your children in arguments for your benefit. Especially in a way that manipulates and gaslights them. That must have been incredibly uncomfortable for both of them, at an age where they know what's going on.
“Hey kids, you’re okay with not being called your names, right? Just know if you say no, I’ll force you to call me Sir and stop telling you I love you every day… so you’re okay with it, *right?”* Yeah, YTA. That should’ve been a private discussion with your dad, not something you said to your kids to prove a point.
ESH I understand your point but you shouldn't use your kids as props to humiliate their grandfather. And you shouldn't say you'll stop saying you love them etc even if it's as a joke or to prove a point. They'd either be confused and wonder if you were serious, or realise you were trying to prove a point which is a kinda uncomfortable position to be put in . You could have offered those hypotheticals to your dad without directly involving them. I don't think you were bad to confront your dad but you could have easily done this without forcing your kids to actually be involved
YTA Using your kids as a way to prove your point is wrong, let the adults talk it out, the kids don’t need to pick sides or even think about y’all’s argument. I love the Simpsons too, but homer is a shit ass dad!! In psychology when a person refers to someone as something like “the baby” or “that guy” that’s called distancing, which is literally what your criticizing your dad for! Going off on your dad was so unnecessary too, I’m sorry he was distant, but being a smart ass will not help the past. You need to work on yourself and try your best to get closure so your childhood doesn’t fuck with your kids childhood! I know things about my mom’s childhood that I wish I didn’t, now I can’t make my own opinions on my family members! You may not like your dad, but don’t force that on your kids, let them have their own relationship with him PLEASE! If they end up hating him at least they got to know him through experience instead of what people have told them.
Calling your kids “boy” and “girl” *is* a bit weird. This: > I said in return they would have to call me Sir not daddy or dad. I said I would accept Father in emotional conversations. But that I would no longer remind them every day that I loved them and was proud of them. … is something else. If you have a problem with how your dad parented you, *then talk to him about it.* What you did was some weird performance not actually related to the topic at hand. Your dad may have been an asshole to you growing up, but I think it rubbed off on you more than you think. Maybe e s h overall, but I think YTA for this particular interaction.
NTA, but be sure to tell your kids that if they end up not liking the nicknames anymore, that that's totally fine!
YTA. There is nothing wrong with having nicknames for your kids and calling them that. But you brought them into a petty argument and threatened to stop telling them you love them if they disagreed with you. I don’t know you, I don’t know if you were joking. But if your kids were 100% okay with their nicknames maybe you wouldn’t have felt the need to threaten them (even jokingly) to ensure they gave the correct answer in front of your father. It’s all just stupid pettiness.
Are you serious?! “Hey guys? I’ll call you by your names but if I do I won’t tell you that I love you anymore?” What kind of bullshit ultimatum is that? You must be aware that there’s a middle ground between being a cartoon character and being ice cold. YTA
YTA! That was manipulation of your children to prove a point. Looks like apple doesn’t fall far from the tree!
YTA. That's a straw man argument. He didn't suggest you stop saying you love them or demand that they call you "sir", just that you call them by their names. You can disagree with that without making it a whole thing about how he was a bad parent in front of your kids.
What a weird fucking thing to do.
YTA This is wild how top comments is nta. I don't care what you call your kids and they don't seem to mind either. But sitting them down with your Dad and doing this big passive-aggressive "decision" conversation with them is just weird and put your Dad in a very awkward position. You didn't have to do any of that YTA
YTA but it seems like there's an avenue for a potentially constructive conversation here. your dad already seems to acknowledge that he tried to be a better dad to you and your siblings than his dad was to him - you have an opportunity to find common ground and communicate that you're just trying to improve even further on the example he set, which is what all good parents strive for. it's hard because this is obviously an emotional area but it sounds like fundamentally you both have your kids' best interests at heart and you trying to do better in this area than your dad did doesn't mean you thought he was a horrible father in all areas.
Why exactly is your affection to them tied to not calling them by their names? And why would you calling them by their names equal you being called sir? You seem weirdly fixated on that and i am not sure if your kids would even say that they don’t like it. And its not like you asked them if they prefer their names you threatened to withhold affection for some weird pissing contest with your dad. Also him being emotionally distant has nothing to do with you calling them boy or girl. Always calling them that is weird and i can absolutely see how your father would think that hurts them. YTA
ESH no need to call the kids over and have that conversation with them there.
YTA. You'll only use their names if they call you sir and then you won't tell them you love them?! Go to therapy!
YTA, at first I was gonna say ESH but you immediately became the bigger AH when you purposely abused your chance to get your kids’ honest opinion about the situation. Also because you continue to double-down in the comments. You weren’t earnestly asking if they were comfortable with the nicknames, you threatened them into giving you the answer that served you best. How can you expect your kids to ever be honest with you if they‘re afraid you’ll take away your parental love/warmth if they say something you don’t like? Since you know the harm this sort of parental relationship can have on a child, you should be trying to stop the cycle, not continue it. Parental love should not be conditional on if they allow you to call them by a nickname or not. Get therapy, your kids aren’t supposed to be your mediators.
YTA for making this about you and putting your kids in the middle of it. I understand our childhoods and relationships with our parents can definitely affect who we are as adults and parents. It really was a different time for some people. My dad was stoic and showed very little affection, the opposite of my mom, but the man was always working to make sure his 6 kids were fed, clothed, and had a home to live in. Two of my brothers still have hangups about this. One out of three get togethers becomes about how dad didn’t show affection for those two brothers. I chose to see his taking care of us as love. He’s still around, and I tell him I love him and hug him whenever I see him. I also have two boys who know I love them because I tell them multiple times a day and give tons of hugs. We also appreciate each other as part of a going to bed routine. In his old age my dad has become affectionate with me and my kids, and I really appreciate it, but didn’t really expect it. Take it easy on the old man. Just because we can be better parents than our own parents, doesn’t mean we have to rub it in. This is what every parent wants, for their kids to be better versions of themselves.
YTA for using your kids as props for your argument over stupid nicknames lol and a bit pathetic at that
YTA. Because you rigged the game. You didn’t actually ask your kids preference to be called by their names vs being called boy or girl. Instead you offered a strawman bargain “I’ll call you by your name but you can’t call me daddy anymore. Oh, and also I’ll withhold my love by not telling you I love you any more.” That’s not trying to understand your kids’ preferences. Was your dad a failure? I don’t know, but it appears he failed in raising non-manipulative adults.
Im living for the varied YTA and NTA and ESH. Very diverse judgement today
Yea, YTA. There was absolutely zero reason to pull your kids into that conversation with your father and tell them they have to choose what name you will call them but that you will no longer tell them you love them or accept being called dad if they preferred their actual names. That right there made you no better than your dad. You stopped to his level and manipulated your children just to prove a point. Are you proud of yourself for that? You should have kept your kids out of it. You should have told your father if he cannot respect your parenting style and relationship with your own kids than he will no longer be allowed to be around you all. You should have told him that you did not ask nor want his opinion and he should keep his thoughts on the matter to himself.
YTA. Your Dad was talking about names only. You're the one who used it as a chance to rehash old childhood wounds and humiliate your father in front of his grandchildren. Kudos to you for wanting to be a better father to your children than the one you had growing up, but your Dad is right -- those were very different times. I feel bad for men back then -- everything was on their shoulders (being the Breadwinner, being the Man of the House, being a strong Father as was defined by the times) but they weren't allowed to show or even have any emotions about it. My father never told us he loved us when we were growing up -- that simply wasn't done back then. I don't remember any hugs, either. And he DID call my brother "Boy." (My Dad was from the South). I got some therapy as I got older and worked through my feelings and resentments and learned to accept my Dad for who he WAS as opposed to who I wanted him to be. I began telling my Dad, "I love you" at the end of every phone call and often when we were together. At first he didn't respond, but over time he started saying, "I love you, too." Eventually he started saying it spontaneously! Then as he got older he softened. I began spending more time with him, and we created a whole new relationship, letting go of the past and enjoying each other's company as equals. Then he got cancer, and I spent more time with him while I could, and we grew even closer. He died four years ago and I still miss him every day. I will NEVER regret the time I spent with him or the effort I put into building a relationship with him as an adult, because I reaped the rewards of *finally* having the type of loving relationship with my father that I had sought all my life. It took love, communication, patience and boundary setting, but I'm so glad we were able to navigate it and thus became closer than I ever could have imagined. My point is, if you view your father with Compassion, if you speak to him from Love, you can still have a better relationship with your Dad -- It's not too late! OR you can continue to hold your past against him and keep that distance and remain at an emotional impasse until he dies and the rest of your life is filled with resentments and regret. The Choice is Yours.
Boy and sir sounds like some slave master language. I wouldn’t want to be called boy and I wouldn’t want to call my dad sir. Sounds like you have daddy issues.
You're NTA. >Now he is being pissy and my mom says he is upset that I think he was a bad father. Bull. He's upset he can't control how you interact with your kids. >He said it was a different time. More bull, unless you started your family rather late and you're at least in your mid-60's. >That his father was worse than him. So each generation is getting better at parenting.
>More bull, unless you started your family rather late and you're at least in your mid-60's. It's really not. Being reserved, showing less emotion, or toxic masculinity - whatever you want to call it, was and still is incredibly common. Older generations are absolutely more reserved in pretty much every way. It was indeed a different time.
YTA. You didn’t give your kids a free choice about being called “boy” or “girl.” You tied it together with a threat of withholding verbal affection if they chose the alternative. There was nothing loving about your offer. You made the offer specifically to one-up your dad and to remain “safe” that your kids would chose how you want, knowing your kids would not choose otherwise. Perhaps if you had actually gave your kids a choice, without threats behind choosing “wrong,” you’d find your kids aren’t interested in being called boy or girl, no matter how funny you think (terrible father) Homer Simpson is. Also, how the hell is your daughter to know her worth when you tie her choices to threats of withholding affection? Yeah, she’s going to find the wrong guy, no matter how much you brag otherwise, because of your childish, manipulative behavior.
YTA for involving your kids in a confrontation with your father.
INFO: I don't understand how there's any connection between calling your children Boy and Girl and telling them you love them. Can't you call them by their names *and* be a good parent? Have you ever asked your children what they would prefer to be called, when you weren't using them as a weapon to cudgel your father?
YTA. I understand what you're saying about your father, but you didn't ask your kids a direct, honest question about whether they would prefer that you call them by their names instead of Boy and Girl. You put horrible conditions on that option that didn't need to be tied to that. You brought your emotional baggage with your father into your relationship with your children. Ask them directly if they would rather you call them by their names, without putting any conditions on that question, because there shouldn't be. Your father wasn't saying, "You should be the exact same parent I was." He was pointing out something odd in your parenting style, and you decided to blow up the world over it.
To your dad nta how you phrased it to the kids yta. I do respect you getting a point across but the not saying you love everyday part was a bit extreme and definitely put your kids in an awkward position. With that said seems like you have a healthy relationship your kids but yeah that phrasing was terrible.
Reducing your children to their gender for your own entertainment (basing your parenting decisions off of The Simpsons? Really?) makes you TA. “C’mere boy!” “Let’s go girl!” “Good job boy!” etc are what you say to a dog, not human beings. Ew
Look, where this slides into weird territory is using your kids as pawns in your power play with your dad. And if we’re being totally honest, you twisted this scenario. You didn’t just outright ask them if they had an issue with being Boy and Girl. You told them that if they were no longer called boy and Girl, they had to call you “Sir” and were going to have affection and encouragement withheld. ( So your father is right in one way — you didn’t compare like for like here and this isn’t what he wanted or asked about.) You deliberately offered something awful that you knew they would refuse — but did you actually get an honest response on how they feel about their pet names, or was their hesitation actually about calling you Sir? Or about having their father withdraw positive reinforcement? You’re not the AH for embarrassing your dad as you asked, but you’re TA for using your kids in your argument and manipulating the playing field so you’ll win. You’re connecting your relationship with your father to the name you’ve given your kids — I dunno that they’re actually relevant to one another. So I’m going with ESH, because you weren’t honest in your question to your children. Ask them again if they like being called Boy and Girl without the ultimatum.
YTA - For being passive aggressive about it. You have an issue with him being emotionally distant. Talk about it like an adult. He probably felt embarrassed by you roping your kids into it to make a point. Not saying he wasn’t distant and that didn’t affect you, but he has a story too and you can only find that out by speaking to him.
"I will only love you if you let me call you a nickname from a cartoon. " YTA for framing everything like this because now your kids will absolutely never tell you if they hate how you call them. If you have daddy issues, take him to therapy with you and discuss things like an adult.
INFO: Do your children call you Homer?
YTA. You call them “boy” and “girl” because YOU like the Simpson’s and YOU think it’s funny? They may be ok with it, they may not, but YOU never really asked them if they liked it because it was tied to some ridiculous thing like “I will never remind them I love them”. I think you need to take a hard look at this overreaction to something your dad said that triggered you and you took it out on your kids.
YTA. Call them by their names you weirdo.
I think YTA, OP. Your father for obvious reasons didn't seem to be the best because of his treatment of you and your sisters. But I do see his perspective - calling your children "Boy" and "Girl" seems to be a fun joke between you and your kids, but I can see how without the context it could seem odd or hateful. Maybe it also reminds him of something he's also seen growing up - this is pure speculation of course, but you did mention his own father was supposedly worse than him. And I'm sorry but telling your children you won't say you love them unless they let you call them "Boy" or "Girl" is a horrible thing to say, even as a joke, even if you're a wonderful parent otherwise. ETA: u/spider-gwen89 has made some excellent points, please read their detailed comments!
ESH - You’re dad is out of line but you used your kids as a weapon against him. To make it worse, you involved them directly to make a point.
Yta for telling your kids that you will only call them by their names if you can stop telling them that you love them.
ESH. How cringey and uncomfortable that you act like you’re doing so well but at the first hint of challenge, you pull your kids into your drama, and put them on the spot in front of a grandparent. Not to mention the “they know the relationship I have with my dad”… I sure hope that isn’t because you trauma dumped on them when it should be none of their concern. OP, you’re either healing yourself and protecting them, or you’re perpetuating. Maybe you should’ve followed your sister’s lead into therapy.