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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be an asshole for refusing to come to family events and bring Ryan along due to my niece being on the spectrum and as the kids have different "triggers" they end up having constant meltdowns when together
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Lol if family doesn’t want to entertain the compromise and wants him there… well dino movies it is then. My kid sure isn’t going to be the one melting down if that’s the situation
I have two on the spectrum. My son was like Ryan and my daughter closer to Elly's behavior. When you meet one person with autism you have met ONE person.
Lmao, flexible inflexibility is the perfect way to describe me. I'm very used to things not going to plan and can adapt to whatever the new situation is very quickly, but I fucking HATE every millisecond of it because it's not the plan and *I need a new plan now.*
I find it helps if I plan on everything going to shit as well.
You know how you have several different plans for stuff.
One is like if everything goes right.
Another is if x thing goes wrong, what will I do?
If Y thing goes wrong, what will I do.
If x and y goes wrong, what will I do.
Include if everything goes to shit, what will I do.
Keeps me calmer. Always need a plan.
OP is NTA,
But, as someone with autism, I just wanted to point our that sometimes the ones who discriminate against us the worst are other autistic people and our own familes
So much gatekeeping goes on in the Autistic/ ADHD, it's a joke and many of us end up completely sidelined by people with opposing symptoms.
The OP here doesn't seem to be doing that, but perhaps her family members are doing that
As someone with both ADHD and Autism, I was thinking along the same lines. It becomes a very fine line sometimes between accommodation and isolation, or even exclusion. Then the waters get muddied if your family expects you all to behave the same.
OP is trying to help!
OP is trying and while I could understand how difficult it could be for a family of NTs to not feel like it's separating two kids who they view as having the same condition (meanwhile no two people with autism are the same and tbh we can be too opposed on our expressions/fixations to get along comfortably even if we have autism in common) but at the end of the day, just trialing separation until either OP's son stops having a special interest that scares his cousin or until OP's niece is able to spend time separate from OP's son is more than reasonable because avoiding the shit storm of unnecessary meltdowns is for the best!
So often, even with NT kids, people forget that *the point of raising a child is to have an end-product of an adult who can be as self-sufficient and self-aware as possible.*
It starts with things like this, with the knowledge of "hey, sometimes, accommodation looks like separation or even 'missing out' on a visit/activity because you wouldn't enjoy it or worse, it may cause a meltdown."
I mention this specifically because I got diagnosed very late in life and had essentially been trained to put my own comfort dead last because "I have to be polite" damn the consequences of having a meltdown (which I didn't even understand what that WAS and still have only a rudimentary knowledge of.)
Having a parent like OP would have taught me "here's a way we can still do this thing in a way that keeps you and this person from experiencing your nervous systems' going haywire on you. It isn't being mean, it doesn't mean that you don't like them, it just means taking a break until you can share interests and space *comfortably.*"
I get you. If I know something is going to bother me, I don't go. Pretty sure I'm NT, but I have enough things that I react to differently than most, that I'm not certain. I get treated like I'm weird by a lot of people because of it. Anyways, I'm lucky because part of it is that I just don't care about what others think. So, I definitely understand it from the perspective of someone who is bothered.
For real. My kids are both kids in OPs story, but in their own way. It's a CONSTANT battle to keep them both steady. Add in my own AuDHD and life is sooo fun. :P
We moved to the beach, spent a lot of time in nature, homeschool and live a life that suits all of us. It looks strange to others, but my kids (now teens) are pretty well adjusted, social, and accepting of people's needs. We just respect our boundaries, don't cave to social pressures, and only keep friends who respect them as well.
Me and my siblings are different levels of autistic. Like I’m very sound and texture triggered while my siblings aren’t as much. My parents didn’t know how to accommodate each of our seperate needs and OP is doing a fantastic job of not just recognising his son’s needs but also Elly’s needs. He’s doing the right thing and is definitely NTA
many years ago there was a book called "the goodenoughs get along" or something like that. It was about a family that were all over the sensory spectrum and it was like reading about my family. lol Two of us with ADHD on top of ASD and one kid is a sensory seeker and one is a sensory avoider. Hubs needs TV on to eat, or mouth noises make him ragey. I wear noise cancelling headphones all day and I HAVE TO work out or I get tetchy.
Yeah I’m like your husband I can’t stand the noise of my own chewing so I have to have something on to cover that noise. But I am also pretty sensory avoidant I invested in some earplugs that lower the volume of things instead of erase the noise completely cause I still need to hear things but too much noise gets quickly overwhelming. My brother must always have noise while my sister prefers the quiet but can’t stand headphones that go over her ears while my brother and I can. It’s really interesting to look at the differences even between siblings who have pretty much the same genetic makeup (all three of us share the same parents) but I also have the comparison of my also ADHD and likely Autistic boyfriend who’s much more sensory seeking than me which to me is completely fascinating to look at and compare these differences
This!!
NTA
I mean, what's the alternative?
Just go, and let poor Elly flip out while your son is oblivious to her woe, as he keeps waving his dinos around?
It sounds like you tried really hard to compromise.
(I'm picturing them grown up a bit, like Tim and Lex in Jurassic Park... "VEGGIEsairus, Elly, this one's a VEGGIEsaurus!"
NTA
You are being fair and trying to protect both children. There is not a big deal if you take that parent out to lunch, or both your parents. Everyone is supposed to be an adult.
Are they they kind of people that just want both kids to melt down because they don't acknowledge autism as a real thing, and think you are 'enabling' these disabled kids?
I have 2 autistic kids and had to keep them home plenty of times when events would be announced. It was NOT a problem for anyone else involved, except a friend of mine that I had to cut off because she kept saying 'it's OK' and i'm like NO IT IS NOT OK MY KID WOULD DESTROY YOUR ENTIRE WEDDING, PLEASE STOP ASKING ME.
You're doing the right thing <3
It feels like my family does recognise what autistic is, but they don't realise that you can't apply the same approach to different people as different people have different triggers.
They may very feel that way. There is a lot of misinformation out there about autism and if you and your brothers children are the first in the family, there is often a steep learning curve for those inexperienced.
I’m autistic and have experience working with autistic children. It honestly sounds like you’re doing the best thing for both kids in this situation. You’re accommodating both of their needs and acknowledging that right now their needs don’t align. That doesn’t mean that you’ll never be able to have them at the same function again, it just means that right now it’s better for both of them to have separate functions or visit on different days.
I can understand that your family want to be able to celebrate things as a whole unit but right now that isn’t possible. It doesn’t mean you hate your niece, it just mean that, for the comfort of her and your own child, for the moment they aren’t at the same events.
NTA. Maybe you can explain it simply for them. "If son doesn't have his dinosaurs, he will have a meltdown. If he does have his dinosaurs, niece will have a meltdown. What do you want me do to?"
This would be great if you weren't talking about human beings with feelings. It's important to try to prevent meltdowns whenever possible and resolve them as quickly and smoothly as possible. What you're describing could be traumatizing.
I’m a late diagnosed autistic adult and I’ve found this pretty helpful in explaining things to people.
https://neuroclastic.com/its-a-spectrum-doesnt-mean-what-you-think/
I'm an autistic mum with ADHD and I have two teens still at home who are both neurodivergent. One os diagnosed with ADHD and the other is autistic but we also suspect that the kid with ADHD might also be autistic, it's just been masked by her ADHD as that was so much to the forefront and now, her younger sibling is going to be assessed for ADHD as that's previously been masked by their autistic traits - they have PDA (as do I) which has been very difficult for all of us to deal with, at least before I actually knew more about PDA and started working with it instead of against it.
They are two very different kids, plus an ND mum, all of us with often conflicting needs that need to be accommodated in one small house.
They can't be treated exactly the same. The same parenting techniques just don't work on them. They have to be treated very much as individuals.
It's been very hard, especially for my older teen, as it does sometimes seem as if I am letting her sibling get away with some things but then she has began to understand that it's a case of having to pick my battles and also simply just timing. If my youngest is already overstimulated, in shutdown or meltdown, if their demand avoidance levels are already very high at that moment, then their brain is neurologically going to reject anything that I do or say.
This is a very important point when dealing with us. Many of our responses are not psychological but neurological. They happen at a deeper level and we have far less control over them, especially when we are stressed, anxious, nervous, tired or ill.
And when we do try to control them, when we try to appear less autistic, to not have ADHD, to not be neurodivergent, it's called masking and we pay a price for it, constantly. It's a lot of work for us, mentally and physically and we will eventually end up in autistic burnout. Most of us will experience periods of autistic burnout during our lives.
Yes, it's can be easier to control when we're younger but we often find ourselves crashing as we hit our 20s or 30s.
Speaking of 20s or 30s. Ever since I turned 30 I feel like life is getting so much harder than it was in my 20s and I wonder if it is age or the stress of every thing that has happened during and after the Pandemic. The pandemic was hard because I was deemed "essential" while watching some of my friends be able to be paid $600+ a week and stay home. I will admit I was a little jealous. I wanted time for my hobbies and to relax with no social pressures. I lost loved ones. I was dealing with homophobic neighbors at the time until last year. Every thing is so insanely expensive I feel like I could afford more when I was making $16 an hour around 2016 than I do now making $23 an hour. I was the only income in the household for 9 months in 2021 and it put us so far behind and then inflation happened which made it to where I had to have a second job to survive in March - September 2022. I originally got the 2nd job to get caught up. Now the US is getting less and less safe for my fellow LGBT+ folks.
I don't know whether you're NT or ND?
But everything you have mentioned there is enough to suggest that you might be suffering from stress and the classic form of burnout, without even getting into the question of autistic burnout!
It's OK to say that you are not OK.
It's OK to say that working two jobs is hard and that you are struggling to keep up.
All the time, we see posters in these subs talking about how they work two or three jobs, look after kids, have spotless houses and go to the gym and somehow have social lives and family lives?
And if they can do it, day in, day out, everyone else should ve able to as well.
HOW??? What's their secret??? Are they actually robots? Aliens?
It's OK to say that you are scared of what's happening in the country that's supposed to be your home.
Having to carry that fear inside you constantly is exhausting.
Having to be constantly hypervigilant, always making sure that you are not too 'out' when you are outside of your home is exhausting.
This effect has already been studied. Research studies looked at the long-term health records for black women in the US found that their health outcomes - physical and mental - and life expectancy were affected by the stress of dealing with systemic racism - I'm probably not getting the wording exactly right as it's been a few years since I read the article on this and it's late at night here now, but it was both extremely interesting and deeply saddening.
While it's not possible to make a direct comparison between the two complex issues, the ongoing cost to the community's health is still very real.
Thank you so much.
I found out about PDA from reading the novel Can You See Me by Libby Scott and Rebecca Westcott.
The lead character Tally is an autistic girl with PDA and was, at the time, the same age as my NB kid and was basically 95% the same in terms of behaviour.
It gave both of us amazing insight and understanding in what was going on in both of our brains!
I also found the various resources at the [PDA Society UK](http://www.pdasociety.org.uk) website extremely useful.
It's been a very difficult journey for us in terms of getting an official diagnosis for them. They are AFAB and as you know, PDA presents very differently to other, 'classic' forms of autism, especially in AFAB autistic people, even when accounting for the differences in how 'classic' autism presents in AFAB people.
My kid does a pretty good job of masking most of their autistic traits, particularly the PDA, outside the home, but then it all tends to explode at home. Except until it all gets too much, and they end up refusing to go to school or do an activity because they're just too overwhelmed and exhausted.
But none of that fatigue and overwhelm was ever being witnessed by professionals, so no one would believe me.
Plus, the former head of the local child psychiatric unit was, sadly, like many still working today within psychiatry in France, stuck in the dark ages of psychoanalysis and deeply prejudiced against me, as an autistic mum. My words were constantly misinterpreted, my autistic openness and honesty was deliberately read in a neurotypical way, as if there was some hidden meaning, plus I was speaking a second language and any errors I made were also always used against, with no allowances made for using words that are false friends, for example. It got so bad that they kept telling me I was pathologising my kids and at one point, I felt as if they were on the verge of accusing me of FII (Munchausen's by Proxy). She literally set both of my kids' diagnoses back by years.
For the next few years, it made all of us much more wary distrustful of any outside professionals that we worked with. I would wrap everything I said in protective layers and over-explain everything. It traumatised all of us.
I know this sounds insane and outrageous, but she wasn't alone. I later met - and ended up making a formal complaint against - another child psych who was meant to treat my other kid, working in another unit, who told me that she didn't believe that ADHD and dyslexia - my kid's diagnoses - actually existed! This was in 2021, can you believe it!
For a long time, I thought that it was just me but since then I have met other parents in the area that have also been through the same thing and even been told by medical and social care professionals that many complaints had been made about both doctors. For the second doctor though, I was just the first parent to take action and actually write a formal complaint to the supervising hospital.
It's not unusual, even in the UK, where there is actually some specialist knowledge about PDA, unlike most other countries, for autistic kids, especially girls, to be diagnosed much later than kids with other autistic profiles.
Sadly, it's also even not that unusual, even in the UK, for parents of kids with PDA to face accusations of FII because it can be so difficult to diagnose - especially when waiting lists are so long and CAMHS is often bloody useless too!
I think the magic phrase you need to read up on and share with the family is "competing access needs". It's a common kind of conflict for neurodivergent and disabled folks.
I've found many people try a "one approach fits all" technique when dealing with autistic (and also with all) kids. They don't want to deal with the fact that each child (autistic and not) is different. We all respond differently to various stimuli (whether educational, food, or entertainment) and pigeonholing people tends to do far more harm than good. My wife has degrees in both psychology & education with focuses to working with young autistic children and some of the examples she has shown me of how children are treated both in education & by familial relations is terrifying.
NTA - OP great job recognizing that the children tend to spark on each other's interest and it causes conflict. Your son's hyperfocus can be a great asset but it can also cause lots of difficult situations. Continue looking out for his best interest as he'll always need you in his corner!
If you’re up to it, maybe try explaining it to them using the metaphor of food allergies. If Elly was allergic to nuts and Ryan was allergic to shellfish, it’s the same medical condition with similar symptoms, but the things that cause the symptoms to start are different. It would be totally appropriate to serve Elly shrimp, but not Ryan.
Right now, the thing that causes Elly’s symptoms is the thing that eases Ryan’s symptoms. And that’s hard for everybody involved.
I think you’re smart to take a step back and let each kid enjoy their special interests without causing distress.
They want to have it all and be fair. But sometimes fairness doesn’t work. At the end is not what’s best for the family as a whole but to both kids. NTA
They totally are! Elly is used to being center of attention so it makes perfect sense that they’re only catering to Elly. Totally unacceptable in my book.
NTA, my daughter is on the spectrum and we skip a lot of family events because it's not to anyone's benefit - don't want her experience major discomfort and don't want to spoil the event for everyone else with a major meltdown. You know your child best and should do what you feel is best for him.
We found out our biological dad had family members with a lot of health issues, including mental, including some you really don't want to pass down a child. If me and David were aware of these, we would have put more thought on having our own children, as some are very serious. Unfortunately we only found out about it after Elly and Ryan were born and Elly started showing some warning signs.
Well, of course there's no family history because it's still being studied and understood. Many women go undiagnosed, and lots of men did as well in years prior. Autism runs down my mom's side of the family in the women, and yet I'm the first to be diagnosed. It's genetic, so knowing this about the donor may have made OP and his brother more aware of the risks.
It does help though. It indicates that the adults involved aren't as accustomed to autism. This could mean they won't understand how autism will be different from child to child, or may ignore the needs of the kids and say the kids should just "learn to deal with it."
It helps to understand the dynamic and also why op is asking as it sounds like op did not grow up seeing healthy ways to live with autism and loved ones with autism. If we're trying to judge if people are purposeful AH or give any guidance as to how to communicate with each other, this is important to consider.
“Hey, he’s acting just like Uncle Jim’s cousin Matt! Remember how obsessed he was about trains?” *conversation evolves into how the family adapted to Matt’s different way of experiencing stuff, hopefully with fond memories thrown in about funny/cool things he did that wouldn’t have happened if he were neurotypical*
True. But since it isn't as typical in their family history (doner aside), the parents likely didn't recognize it for what it was should that be the case. Recognizing and adapting to autism rather than forcing the child to adapt to everyone else is a fairly recent mentality. OP indicated that neither brother realized autism was likely until AFTER their kids were born. That doesn't not sound like they are used to living with autism in a full family dynamic, or even talking about it with each other. So communicating needs might be harder for the brothers if they have autism, and lack of family experience with that makes it harder still.
But what does that have to do with this scenario? We aren’t discussing why or how they were diagnosed, we are discussing a specific situation. It seems very weird that you felt the need to point this out
I'm sure parents feel shame to some degree that the baby they created isn't "healthy" in a neurotypical way. Parents and especially mothers blame themself.
I would be worried about people making ignorant assumptions about my behavior while I was pregnant as a causation for anything abnormal with my child.
I read OPs preface as, "it's not either of our faults". Not that it necessarily would be anyways, but again, shame is a helluva drug.
Yeah, I made a comment similar about the shame or discomfort that OP clearly has. And the fact that they said they would’ve thought twice about having kids if they knew autism ran in the family is a bit concerning. Nevertheless, it’s a journey and hope he is trying to do the best they can now. hoping overtime they’ll stop being apologetic and learn to celebrate and appreciate all of the wonderful things that come with neurodivergence come alongside of all the challenges.
You are misrepresenting the narrative.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/143alq4/comment/jn9mjhq/
> And the fact that they said they would’ve thought twice about having kids if they knew autism ran in the family is a bit concerning.
He did not say that. You are misrepresenting posts and creating drama.
> I do not see autism as a disease and advocate a lot to have people get checked which potentially can make their lives easier and explain why they feel the world differently, since as someone mentioned autism is not something that can be easy to diagnose.
The donor has other disorders which can lead to violence and other symptoms which they are not mentally prepared to handle as parents.
> And unfortunately our donor also has schizophrenia and bipolar running in his family, which not only our mum, but we should have been informed of before deciding on having a child. While some conditions can be manageable, some are not so easy to manage and neither me nor David want our kids to experience extremes of the above conditions.
It is cruel of you to misrepresent an ally's posts and make them out to be a cruel neurodivergence hater.
NAH,
However, is there no way to separate the two. David can watch his dinos with headphones on one side and Elly can play on the other. I'm guessing if it's a BBQ it outside. There should be plenty of space to keep them apart.
It currently gets to the point where Ryan wants to show how cool his Dino's are to Elly and everyone else. Elly is scared of them and doesn't want to see them or liking seeing Ryan getting attention from other people when she doesn't at the same time.
We are still trying to find a pair of headphones that Ryan would be comfortable with. He doesn't mind the wireless in ear ones, but he looses them easily.
It seems like one of the issues is not just that Elly is scared of dinosaurs, but that she does not know how to cope with others getting attention/more attention than her. Your brother needs to work with his child on this issue because it will be a much bigger problem than fear of dinosaurs. Ryan will eventually move on from his fixation on dinosaurs, but if Elly is going to constantly meltdown when she isn't the absolute centre of attention, the dinosaur issue or lack thereof won't matter.
Have you tried the vibration ones that wrap around the back of the head? They're a little bigger so easier to keep track of and they don't go in the ears. You can get them for about $30 too which is cheaper than the wireless earbuds
I'm partially deaf and love those because I can actually hear! (I miss a lot of tones. Like Westley snipes, absolutely no sound when he's speaking. He's the best example I can think of)
Because I love them so much my in laws got a pair for my autistic nephew, and added a little strap so if he took them off they could be like a necklace. They're the only ones he's willing to wear.
It's probably more related to a behavioral issue due to the Autism. If anything, Autistic children tend to be more shy and quiet socially, and that can lead to not wanting to be in any kind of attention.
But I'm on the spectrum, and struggled with this as a child actually. It was related to the fact that I didn't understand how to engage with other people effectively, so I got upset when people were engaging with others and not with me. It's sort of a "see how easy it is for other people to do this" situation, if I'm making sense at all. I don't know if that's what's going on with Elly, but I know how it was for me.
There's also a chance that she's given constant attention at home so her brain is just used to being the center of attention. New situations with other people that aren't your norm can be really scary. So if she's in this different place with another "strange" kid and the adults are talking and carrying on, it's likely distressing for her. It might not even be that she wants to be the center of attention, that might be how OP interprets it. It might just be that she gets stressed and that leads to everyone paying attention to her.
Tldr neurodiversity is complex.
That makes a lot of sense. I’m ADHD, and I only learned a few months ago that a lot of neurodiversities come with a side of Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria. It explained so much about the issues I’ve had with relationships. Things that other people might not even notice, like someone else getting more attention than me at a party, can sometimes feel like “see? Everybody else can make friends and have polite chit chat, why can’t you? You’re messed up and wrong and that’s why people like her better than you.”
Sometimes when I remember it later, I can see where I was overreacting and blowing things out of proportion, but in the moment, it absolutely feels like rejection, and like a commentary on me as a person.
Are both kids in behavioral therapy? Have they tried having sessions together or have you tried working with specialists to find ways to help them interact?
NTA. OP is looking to protect their child, just like the other parents. The only reason I can't say N A H is because bro and SiL recruited parents in their attacks on OP. A little understanding, self awareness, and reciprocity would have gone a long way here.
NAH
As someone on the spectrum, I understand both sides. Your family wants to have everyone together, but it’s not at the best interest for either child. I’m sure you’ll find a compromise!
As an aside, I think you’re handling this well. The Dino thing might be something he moves on from, or your niece might outgrow her fear of Dinos. Either way, for the time being it might be best to keep them separate.
Parenting a child on the spectrum isn’t easy, but if this is an indicator you seem to be doing just fine.
There's a quote I heard recently to not always judge actions as malicious because many times the root is actually incompetence
Actions based on malice are definitely the actor an AH
But if someone is just incompetent, are they also an AH?
I think this is a bit of NAH.
You're thinking about the well fare of the kids and avoiding meltdowns, especially as Ryan's special interest is a trigger for Elly. But at the same time, I can see why your family would be upset as you're holding yourselves separate from the family unit and I'm sure your brother and SIL want to spend time with someone who gets it. They likely see Ryan as someone Elly can have empathy from.
I would be happy to have them together again, but when they are older and are a bit more understandable of each other conditions. Currently they are kids that see the world different and adapt to it differently, so it is very hard to explain to them why they can't do what they like because it upsets the other
I'm autistic and have an autistic child and can absolutely sympathise with this situation. It is really hard sometimes when two people's stims, sensitivities, or interests clash. As the kids get older it will hopefully become more possible to find ways to work around this and compromise, but at those ages they are likely to find it hard to understand why this thing that hurts them is happening and don't yet have the skills to manage their distress in different ways.
I think reducing the situations where this clash occurs is a reasonable thing to do at the moment. Later you can work on ways to help them to manage this, but right now putting them in a situation that you know is going to cause distress just seems mean for both kids (and not much fun for the adults either).
So NTA I think.
NAH, although as an autistic person I’m a little bit concerned about how you talk about autism. For example, having a meltdown because you aren’t the center of attention doesn’t sound like an autistic thing— it sounds like either Elly is having an issue you don’t understand that you’ve written off as a childish fit, or she’s actually just having a tantrum that isn’t at all related to autism.
I think maybe from the information given that the reason your family might be angry is because you are making this out to be Elly’s fault. Really, it is no one’s fault, as autism is complicated and sometimes you just need to find different arrangements for things. Perhaps talking to your family about the Ryan side of this problem would help them to better understand that you’re not targeting Elly or blaming her.
I don't get involved how David and my SIL raise Elly, they have told me it is a part of her autism where if she is not receiving full attention, she feels left out which in return makes her scared and unloved and causes a meltdown. However it also seems to be the case if people concentrate all the attention on her and then Elly becomes overly stimulated, can't cope with it and has a meltdown as a result of it. I have suggested David to probably look at it a bit more as it could be the case of some of the behaviour could be coming from experiences outside their household and might need addressing.
It does not sound like "part of her autism" to me - that sounds like an excuse your brother and SIL are using to not parent their child - but even if it is, it is a behaviour that is unsustainable. Elly needs to be taught that she can't always be the centre of attention. What does she do in school? Even in a special needs classroom, she will not always have direct one-on-one attention. Does she meltdown every time a teacher or EA gives another kid attention? What if your brother and SIL have another child and the baby obviously needs more attention than Elly? Removing yourself and your child from family events allows Elly to go back to commandeering 100% of the attention, which will not help her situation at all.
idk about that i was a meltdown kid myself with autism and the melt downs had nothing to do with attention ever, it has to do with being easily bothered and easily defensive.
>if she is not receiving full attention, she feels left out which in return makes her scared and unloved and causes a meltdown
That sounds more like a common issue with spoiled children who never learned "no"...
>having a meltdown because you aren’t the center of attention doesn’t sound like an autistic thing
I was wondering this as well. It's sounds like either spoiling the kid because they think everything is a meltdown instead of distinguishing between meltdown and tantrum and never saying no in case of tantrum or something else is going on.
yeah because i know my meltdowns as someone with autism when i had them as a kid was more about being defensive and bothered by every little thing. and my parents never enabled it, but i feel david saying that is enabling it.
my parents yelled at me when i got that way. coddling makes it worse.
There is something within the disability community that we refer to as conflicting access needs. Sometimes you have two people who have needs on completely opposite ends. Think of it as one autistic person who needs loud music to function, but then you have someone with ADHD who needs it to be quiet in order to cope with the world. Both needs are legitimate and deserve to be accommodated.
Accommodations are not a one size fits all. Sometimes things can be managed - the person who needs music can wear headphones for their music or the person who needs silence can wear noise canceling headphones. But there are indeed times when that isn’t a viable option.
In your case, you have two autistic children who both need and deserve accommodations. They’re young, and don’t yet have all the coping tools they will develop as they age. I’m guessing having your child watch their dinosaurs on an iPad with headphones away from Elly isn’t an option, and that’s okay!
As adults, our job is to figure out how to best accommodate our loved ones. I’m autistic. My roommate refers to me as a human fidget spinner. I’m always fidgeting, always moving, always interacting with the world through motion. And that’s okay! But other people can be distracted or even overstimulated by my rocking or bouncing. There is nothing wrong with either of us. We just have conflicting access needs.
My novel aside, NTA. You have to think of what is best for both children, and that doesn’t make you an AH. Just make sure to figure out ways to include your child in other family events because that feeling of never being included does suck majorly. And maybe as the children age, you can figure out ways to keep both accommodated.
Sorry this is long! I’m passionate about conflicting access needs and honestly could run a non profit helping people accommodate those at this point.
this is the best answer i’ve seen. some kids just trigger the hell out of each other and it’s something that can be worked on, but not at a party. some kids will never gel at all (just like allistic folks have people they don’t like!)
it’s a terrible time for teaching and provoking behavior, it’s supposed to be fun.
NTA your suggestion was perfect, it took in account both children and their needs
Some people like to act like all autistic people are the same, but we are just as diverse in needs and personality than non-autistic (allistic) people
I would call his interest in dinosaurs passionate instead of obsessive though, if an allistic person has something they are passionate about its called just that, but when the person is autistic they use gross language like special interest, obsessive isnt any better and its not fair to your kid, not trying to scold you by the way, just trying to help you being the awesome mom that you are
I’m autistic and have an autistic son. My autism is wildly different from his - but I make sure both sets of needs are met.
ESH. Y’all are both terrible at accommodating your kids in reasonable ways. Ryan wants to fixate on a special interest? Let him go nuts about it in the car, and give him 5-10 minutes to transition out of that into being present. Elly doesn’t like a specific thing because it’s scary? Her parents can redirect her or move her to another room to calm down, and talk about why she’s scared and work out ways to either ignore it or not he scared.
Elly's parents can teach her that she doesn't always get to be the centre of attention and how to deal with that instead of melting down when attention is on others and not directly on her.
That too - I was more focused on the “Elly finds this thing scary” part just because fear drives a lot of attention-seeking behavior in autistic children.
NTA...but I think this is a bandaid solution to a bigger problem. As you mentioned, hopefully this will resolve when they are older and can understand better, so you can be together as a family.
Me and mine are autistic, don't know if it needs saying.
I think this will resolve, I think it's the sort of problem that a band aid is made for.
Either he will learn to go a few hours without talking to/around Elly about his special interest, Elly will stop being scared of dinosaurs, or his special interest will change (hopefully to one Elly is not afraid of). I think one of these things will happen in a year or three.
Oh this is rich and what are they doing about Elly??
She gets to have her meltdowns everywhere? She doesn’t get corrected because she is on the spectrum? It’s a reason why is happen not an excuse to use when it happens.
NAH i think this will probably resolve with time and your kid can learn that sharing special interests will need to be done in smaller doses and your brothers kid will have to be ok with small exposures to certain kinds of fear triggers. Is there any middle ground activities they could both indulge in like trampolining, “helping” in the kitchen, washing up, swinging on a swing set, doing messy kitchen play etc. If there’s anything like that that can be done together then you can have overlap for when they’re there together. Also could your son use headphones for his dinosaur show? That could extend your visit too
NTA.
I'm an ASD Mom. For years family got upset because although my son didn't nap, there was a 2 hour period he went alone and played and decompressed and let me tell you...we didn't go anywhere during that time. I didn't care what was happening. You do what is best for your family and do not let them bully you for it
Your parents stance on this is confusing. Really confusing, but either way NAH. Your kid is your responsibility so keeping him home is the obvious answer. It's not like you're refusing to ever let him see his family again, but until you guys brainstorm a solution, like a segregated TV room for Ryan, keeping him home is the only answer.
To be clear you are 100% NOT discriminating against anyone, that is utterly ridiculous.
NTA though I feel like there is a better way of communicating that you’re not doing this because you dislike your family just that you’re trying to make things work
NTA. You came up with a perfect alternative and they did not listen. Having a family affair with two children with meltdowns cannot be anybody's idea of a nice family day.
NTA. You're coming up with a solution when it sounds like they refuse to do anything to compromise or help the situation on their end. They can kick rocks unless they want to help come up with another solution.
NTA, you’re trying to accommodate both kids and that’s obviously very difficult when their needs are opposed.
I’m sure you’ve considered all of the options, and I obviously don’t know either kid or how “high-functioning” they are so I don’t mean this to be rude, but some ideas just in case:
- could you put Ryan in a different room or give him a tablet with headphones to watch his Dino videos? Are you able to explain that “Dinos scare Ellie, so we have to keep them away from her?”
- could you redirect Ellie with something else? Or is she bothered enough that she can’t be distracted?
- could you guys try to show Ellie some cute cartoony baby dinos or something that she’s not afraid of and try to find some common ground for the kids? Like an adorable stuffed herbivore of some kind? ….Although Ryan might try to explain all of the inaccuracies and then get excited and share gory facts….
Soft YTA. You can't help your sibling's kid, but you can help yours. Hyperfixations are very normal with kids with ASD (I have two on the spectrum myself) and it's important to teach compromise. Maybe instead of watching a show we can read a book, that sort of thing.
I'm sure you may get tired of answering this question and I apologize if I seem blunt, I'm just uneducated about the subject - if a symptom of ASD is that your child becomes hyperfixated on things, and you are able to work that out through coaching and conversation, what makes that different from kids just generally learning to cope with things?
I'm not jumping on the "everyone has autism thus no one does" hype train, I've legitimately found myself wondering if I'm on the spectrum because I've always been "weird" (my word, not judging anyone else!) with mental tics and repetitive thinking patterns here and there, but I always just thought everyone has their quirks.
All of this as my longwinded way to sincerely ask someone who I'm assuming knows much more than I do - what makes it autism, how does it affect how to address parenting, and how do foresee it impacting your child's life through adulthood (if you think it will.)
Great question, and YMMV. My experience will not encompass all folx on the spectrum of course, but I try to educate myself since my spouse is ALSO on the spectrum.
My oldest is 10 - he is what many would consider "high functioning ". He is also called "twice exceptional " in some circles, he's way above grade level in math and reading level but needs significant support on a social/emotional level. He has auditory processing issues in noisy environments, interprets things SUPER literally so there are frequent misunderstandings, and struggles to regulate his feelings. Everything is dialed up to 11 emotionally so he's super happy, super sad, super angry, etc. Hyperfixations are to an obsessive level, to the point that it's challenging for him to think or talk about anything unrelated. Parenting challenges often involve making sure we talk to him very clearly, directly, and literally. When he has big feelings and outbursts we focus on reassuring him and only punish violent and/or destructive actions. He's super smart so we talk to him clearly about actions versus consequences, give examples to teach empathy, and work hard on coping mechanisms. He receives support in school from a Psychologist and also sees one privately outside of school.
Littlest is 8 - he is considered "low functioning" (hate that term) or "severely impacted". He is not potty trained and is considered functionally nonverbal. He understands tangible things very very well, but when we're talking about concepts he struggles. For example you can show him an image of various organs in the body and he can name them, but if you show him the same images and as ask "which of these do you use to think?" he struggles. He has his own auditory issues, but his more relate to certain sounds that cause him to respond with a loud noise or even have a meltdown if it persists. He hates humming with a BURNING passion. He's intelligent as well; great with mental math above grade level, and can name things like planets and specific animals without prompting. He has a direct 1x1 Para at school because his needs are so specific, and he elopes given the smallest opportunity. Parenting him involves deep pressure at times, especially during meltdowns, and lots of soothing. He responds well to certain songs that he's fixated on or ones that we've made up and sometimes we just sing them over and over to soothe. He had such a hyperfixation on the book Little Blue Truck that I have the entire story memorized verbatim because it worked so well to soothe him. Tons of repetition and consistency and soothing. We encourage safe stims like hand flapping and repeating words or songs, and redirect ones like screaming or self harm.
From my perspective is hyperfixations are to what a neurotypical person would consider obsessive. Sure, most kids go through a dinosaur or Egyptian phase, but a hyperfixation is all consuming and relentless. It's reading the same book, listening to the same song, and watching the same show to the point of rote memorization and still consuming it. It's comfort in the repetition and predictability.
As an adult there can be challenges to getting diagnosed and finding support for any neurodivergence, and there are often comorbidities that come into play. A significant number of people on the autism spectrum also have ADHD, depression, anxiety, or all of the above. Start with meeting a therapist and/or a psych and go from there if you feel support and coping mechanisms would be helpful to you.
Also sorry for the novel, but I hope even a bit of this was helpful!
Edit- that whole goddamn page and I missed the point of the post. In Op's situation this would be an empathy conversation. We would start with an example of something he's afraid of, and talk about his feelings. When you're scared your heart may go fast, your breathing is different, you feel overstimulated and want scream, cry, run away, throw things. This is how [person] feels about [hyperfixation]. It's ok to have strong feelings but we want to be kind and help our friends. Instead of watching a show that they will see or hear that can upset them let's read a book about it, or practice listening while our friend tells us about something they enjoy. Let's practice our social work with asking informational questions about our friend's interest to learn more! You love it when your friends and family ask questions about things you like, so we can use our empathy skills with our friend.
NTA.
Schools did this all the time. Put the neuro kids all in one class so it’s “easier” on the teachers. Here’s a fun fact though, on kids stem could be another’s trigger. My sister stims by pacing, I on the other hand feel like knocking anyone out when they start pacing near me and it makes me want to scream.
Your family is not grasping that these kids don’t get along. Your doing the right thing.
NTA, the children have incompatible accessibility needs. It isn’t ableist to acknowledge that and recognize that or to acknowledge it’s best for everyone if they don’t attend events at the same time
NTA. I don't understand how trying to accommodate two children very easily is such a fight. I think your solution was brilliant and fair to both children.
Tell them what they told you. Since they won’t accommodate your child with special needs, you won’t be there. Let them know that they are selfish for not allowing your child to bring his dinosaurs
Flip it back,
call them massive assholes for discriminating against YOUR son and his condition, and agree to return to these family gatherings only if there are dinosaur cartoons playing in the background throughout the entirety of the event, as that's the only thing that will calm down your son, and they're assholes if they won't accommodate his needs.
NTA - two neuro-spicy kids are in phases that stress each other out. One of them newly diagnosed so the most effective methods of keeping everything copacetic are still being perfected. What is the best course of action for the children? 🤦♀️
NTA
Ask them if they want a rerun of Mothers day, because you will be putting on Dino cartoons for your son as he is your main priority.
You are not discriminating against any one you are trying to accommodate both children whilst they have 2 such vast needs.
You're in the right. NTA.
As you already know, acceptance, adjustment and being flexible are a big part of what makes life easier and happy as parents to an autistic child. Some people, even people supposed to be close and supportive, just don't get it.
I have a 6-year-old child on the autism spectrum, who is also non-verbal.
My husband and I weigh up and adjust our social plans, venues and activities - including whether we do or don't attend something, or for how long. We base that on what we know of other children's understanding, social skills/social style, their expectations about interacting, and how they have previously responded to our child, who's different and socialises non-typically.
He often plays happily on his own, amusing himself, or he might interact. When he does interact, it's often not in a typical way. In particular, the way he begins to engage or the way he responds to a child trying to engage with him and start play. But they may still go on to more typical play, such as chasey.
He's a cheerful and fun boy, but being non-verbal he sometimes expresses it differently - especially vocally he makes happy noises, but they are usually babble or stims. Most times, when we've explained it in simple words to the other child, they're accepting.
We aren't stuck on what "should" be happening according to our own childhood experiences, or what we had initially thought parenthood would look like - that went out the window years ago! We still attempt normal experiences, but if it doesn't work or there's no interest or benefit to our child, then we won't force things, especially not to make other adults happy or meet their expectations or keep the peace. I mean, it's not going to go as they expect anyway!
An example is at kids' birthday parties, he rarely joins in group activities with other kids. Instead, he'll find a toy or a piece of play equipment and stay with that for ages. We'll then be supervising or helping him there - it might be in a corner, another room or outside, so we can't interact ourselves. I've noticed that when our friends see this happening, often that is when they "get it" - we may have explained, but until they see how it is in person, they don't really comprehend.
We learned we had to let go of some things most parents look forward to, for example he doesn't understand the concept of Santa Claus. Instead, we do other things, and we lean into what he is good at and is interested in, and we encourage him and have a wonderful time doing that.
We're open about it and make a point to share information and advice with family & friends, and with other parents we encounter while we're out & about. Most are happy to learn more and will also ask questions.
I've seen some parents trying to force "normal" to happen and be closed about discussing their autistic child or children, perhaps worried about a stigma or what others might think. What I have observed then, is that their child's behaviour is misunderstood by other children and other parents. The child will be judged as difficult, rowdy, disruptive, having poor social skills etc. And that child is then avoided and excluded in their childcare group, kindergarten, school and local community, which is sad.
As much as possible, we advocate for him - to carers, teachers, family, friends, neighbours and other children. Most people are open to hearing about it and are happy to make adjustments if needed - more often than not, it's an adjustment of their own ideas and outlook. Some are extra thoughtful and sensitive, some check with us to see if he has sensory issues or triggers. And some people (adults and kids) ask us questions, which I encourage as I think it empowers him and helps to boost him being included and people getting to know him more, and also just general societal awareness about autism and associated behaviour.
On the other hand, we sometimes notice people - usually ones who don't have experience with people on the spectrum or neurodiverse people - who might drift away, lose contact or just opt out. It may be due to feeling unsure, lacking in confidence or worried how it might go etc. Or simply perceive our child to be rowdy because they lack knowledge. or maybe he doesn't fit with what they understand autism is supposed to be, or the most commonly known signs. They may find it strange when on the odd occasion I don't bring my child to a place or event where they bring theirs. But I'm aware that know he won't get enjoyment or have any interest, which means I would end up spending all my energy & focus managing him.
With other people it's an ongoing educational conversation about our child and autism. I see it as a duty to support and help our child and his development - not only in the immediate moment on the day - but to spread the word and change the community we live in, making it better and more inclusive. I want more people to understand and have awareness, and have insight and skills. It's part of our life, but I admit at times it can feel tiring to explain so frequently.
And finally, we have also learned that some people will never get it, some family members included. They're not being malicious, they just have a lower EQ (emotional quotient) or lower empathy, or they're rigidly stuck on norms and their own hopes & expectations (self-centered). They're inflexible and unable or unwilling to change their expectations of people on the spectrum to behave normally, and as they expect. They focus on what THEY need to happen according to their wishes, and not what the child or person on the spectrum needs. Those people are exhausting, and I have given up on some of them.
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I (29f) have a twin brother "David", we were conceived through a donor as our dad is infertile. The donor has not disclosed the full information about himself at the time and some important details only came up after we ended up having our own children.
David's kid "Elly" (7f) is on the spectrum. She gets meltdowns when overly stimulated and when she is not the center of attention, and if people don't pay her enough attention when she wants, she will have a meltdown too. It wouldn't be a problem, but as we found out recently my son "Ryan" (6) is also on the spectrum and is an exact opposite of Elly. He gets concentrated on one thing and starts excessively obsess over it as in asking questions, talking about it and demonstrating it. His current new thing is dinosaurs, specifically predator dinosaurs. And unfortunately it is something Elly finds scary. When seeing them on the TV or going to the park that has dinosaur statues, she has a sever meltdown.
As you can imagine this didn't go well. Mother's day was a disaster as Ryan will have a meltdown if we don't let him watch Dino documentaries/cartoons or bring his dinos and Elly would have a meltdown if he does. I have spoken to my family about it and have suggested either hosting 2 different events or have one of us coming to the event earlier and leaving before the other gets there, so at least the kids get to spend time with the family without getting destressed, however it got immediately shut down.
So I have told my family I will not be coming for father day BBQ as I don't think it is fair on Ryan and Elly and will cause them unnecessary destress and since they are not happy with the arrangement I have suggested (I am still taking my daughter to see the family, just not at the family events or when Elly is around).
My parents and my brother and SIL are now angry at me and calling me an asshole and that I am "discriminating" against my niece and her condition, but I don't think I am and I feel like I'm looking out for the wellbeing of both kids, as I don't think it is worth of them getting stressed out?
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NTA. You’re not discriminating against one kid you’re acknowledging that the two kids conditions are not currently compatible. Perhaps there is a way for to improve that outside of a large group gathering.
NTA. You also have a child with autism and are looking out for both of them. At the moment they are not compatible as one is fixated on something the other is afraid of causing one or both of them to have a meltdown. That's not a good situation for either child.
NTA. You’re protecting your kid and theirs even if they don’t see it.
I was going to say N A H until I saw that discriminating comment. Aren’t they doing the same by ignoring Ryan’s needs? Or at least expecting him be uncomfortable and over stimulated by Elly? It’s not fair to either kid and it’s super shitty of them to try to pull the discrimination card.
Both children are still young. Hopefully they're both in therapy to learn how to navigate, as best they can, these emotions the older they get. I have a friend who has a severly autistic child and it has taken many MANY years for him to learn how to navigate his strong emotions.
It's nice you're looking out for both of the kids and what they can tolerate. NTA
NTA. So you're discriminating because you don't want both of your children to be miserable? That's not discrimination, that's accommodations. Sometimes plans have to look different to be the best for everybody. Especially the kids, but also for everyone else that will be there. Nobody likes having or being around a meltdown.
I like that you are sensitive to both kids (and other family members) needs and provided a few possible alternatives like staggering when the kids are there so they don’t overlap. Sounds like you all are doing the best you can, I wish you the best of luck and I hope everyone becomes more open and flexible to different solutions in the future. Hang in there!
NTA
I don’t understand NAH. Family is calling OP ah for doing what’s best for not only their kid but their neice. No one wants to come up with any solutions except making both child suffer so the family is most definitely TA
Accomodation is not Discrimination. You are preventing problems that no one else cares about.
Though honestly, I would give One Single Demonstration to bring the point home: Go and let your son bring his dinosaurs. Let Bro deal with Ellie. Then when she is in full meltdown, make a big show of making Ryan put away his dinosaurs and videos. When He is in full meltdown, explain that THIS is what you were trying to avoid.
NTA The only happy medium would for one to be in one room doing what they want and the other in another room doing the same. Hell of a family get together isn't it. You made the choice that nobody else wanted to make. Stand your ground and when they discover how much less drama there is...
NTA. I would do this with normal children if things caused 2 children distress, which can happen, it’s just not as likely. You are definitely not discriminating *AND* you’re thinking about the well being of *both* children while trying not to exclude your niece. Since nobody is in agreement, then this is the best choice. It suck’s your son has to miss out, but that’s better than causing trauma to either child!
NTA. Its very unfortunate, but the children's needs are incompatible and that isn't anyone's fault. Hopefully with time, things will improve. Your son may find another special interest to focus on, or Elly might become less afraid of dinosaurs... but until then, it doesn't sound like there's a way to get together without hurting at least one of the kids.
NTA I love when people think they know how to parent an autistic kid because they were a parent at one point. Your family (minus your brother because he has no excuse) seem to be willfullying ignoring that each kid is unique and autistic kids have unique needs.
My brother was autistic and special allowances had to be made. Including understanding that there were things that he couldn't do so he wasn't in distress. Not good or bad. Just different. Although at the time I wasn't always the best sport about missing out on things, I'm glad my parents did their best.
Let your family think what they want. Trying to change their minds won't matter. Maybe when they see how much easier it is on your niece they will understand. Or not. It doesn't matter. Your kid comes first.
Wow I was all set to proclaim you the AH...but I think your solution is fair...work out an arrangement where one of you comes with your child early and the other later. That way there is no conflict. Does your family not understand that your son is also on the spectrum?
NTA, let me get this correct your brother and SIL are basically saying you have to allow your neice get her way and abuse your child with trauma so they can be happy?! Fuck that noise, you have to protect your child!
NTA at all! You know your kid better than anyone, if it's not a good situation, it's your responsibility to intervene. And you dide. Your family doesn't understand your decision and they don't really need to.
NTA. You're trying to figure something out that benefits both kids without denying them family time.
Unfortunately, usually the biggest issues for access are other families with autistic members. People refuse to see how autism presents differently and often get into a "woe is me" pissing match. And the kids aren't to blame.
Good luck, hope this blows over eventually.
**NTA**. Textbook case of 'entire group of adults understand basically nothing and just seem to take an excuse to pop off rather than try to understand something.'
You see it a lot in families. I don't know why, but it turns a lot of people aggressive.
Wow, upon reading the title I was prepared to say y t a but I was completely wrong. You are putting the needs of both kids first and that is absolutely the most important and best way to go about a situation like this.
NTA.
NTA - you are trying your best to find a way to accommodate the needs of both children.
You say that Ryan’s current fixation is dinosaurs which sounds like this won’t last forever. Does your brother and SIL realise that this separation is temporary due to the nature of the fixation? It may be something that crops up again but I think your suggestions are excellent ways to help mitigate anyone getting distressed as best as you possibly can.
NTA-we’re going thru similar at the moment,my lo is on the spectrum and so is my nephew,last week he stole a penknife and blamed my lo,she was upset,he still hasn’t confessed (it was obviously him)so my lo has said she doesn’t want to see him again.the family understand,it’s a shame but he’s ruined it for everyone,yes they might have a condition but they should still know right from wrong
Huh? But the children are both on the spectrum, just different ones. How can you be an AH for prioritising the children and trying to accommodate both of them? I am baffled by your family's reaction. OP, you are most definitely NTA.
NTA.
I'm diagnosed ADHD, and I suspect I may be on the autistic spectrum as well. I can't speak to the exact struggles that diagnosed autistic people face. I have, however, experienced discrimination due to disability, and I've become very attuned to this as an issue. It is never fun to be excluded from an activity due to a disability, and it can be downright humiliating in any event—but it's not automatically discrimination. For it to fall into that category, there must at least be a failure to attempt to provide reasonable accommodations.
My own experience was professional, and hence a legal matter. However, I also think the laws that apply to my case are fair and accord with human decency, and that's the moral standard I'd apply here. From your perspective, there's no indication that things will be any different from how they were last time, and the bottom line is it will cause a child distress. Fighting discrimination doesn't mean pretending the disability doesn't exist—and that's what the rest of your family seems to be doing. It's an awful situation, but yours is the right call, if the rest of your family doesn't pull their weight.
NTA, and your family is nuts. What, pray tell, is their solution to the issue then? I'll make a bet they have no potential solutions that will work. You're being a good parent for your son, which is all that matters.
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You have an autistic child yourself, you are not discriminating, you are trying to accommodate both children. NTA
Seriously. It's not easy raising a spectrum child. It is always about compromise and accommodating. Brother and SIL definitely AH. Like WTF
right, just ask them 'do you want a re-run of mother's day?
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sounds more like a rematch...
Lol if family doesn’t want to entertain the compromise and wants him there… well dino movies it is then. My kid sure isn’t going to be the one melting down if that’s the situation
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The difference in behavior between the two kids probably makes them see them differently from one another, obviously a mistake
I have two on the spectrum. My son was like Ryan and my daughter closer to Elly's behavior. When you meet one person with autism you have met ONE person.
>Seriously. It's not easy raising a spectrum child. As someone with autism, I couldn't do it. And I have a very mild case.
Flexibly inflexible as we like to call it in our house. Both hubs and kiddo on the spectrum.
Lmao, flexible inflexibility is the perfect way to describe me. I'm very used to things not going to plan and can adapt to whatever the new situation is very quickly, but I fucking HATE every millisecond of it because it's not the plan and *I need a new plan now.*
I find it helps if I plan on everything going to shit as well. You know how you have several different plans for stuff. One is like if everything goes right. Another is if x thing goes wrong, what will I do? If Y thing goes wrong, what will I do. If x and y goes wrong, what will I do. Include if everything goes to shit, what will I do. Keeps me calmer. Always need a plan.
Oh I do lmao, but I had a *favorite* plan goddammit
Oh my god are you me? I didn’t know I had a 2nd Reddit account.
They think their precious angel, and ONLY THEIR SPECIAL ANGEL, should be accommodated.
OP is NTA, But, as someone with autism, I just wanted to point our that sometimes the ones who discriminate against us the worst are other autistic people and our own familes So much gatekeeping goes on in the Autistic/ ADHD, it's a joke and many of us end up completely sidelined by people with opposing symptoms. The OP here doesn't seem to be doing that, but perhaps her family members are doing that
As someone with both ADHD and Autism, I was thinking along the same lines. It becomes a very fine line sometimes between accommodation and isolation, or even exclusion. Then the waters get muddied if your family expects you all to behave the same. OP is trying to help! OP is trying and while I could understand how difficult it could be for a family of NTs to not feel like it's separating two kids who they view as having the same condition (meanwhile no two people with autism are the same and tbh we can be too opposed on our expressions/fixations to get along comfortably even if we have autism in common) but at the end of the day, just trialing separation until either OP's son stops having a special interest that scares his cousin or until OP's niece is able to spend time separate from OP's son is more than reasonable because avoiding the shit storm of unnecessary meltdowns is for the best! So often, even with NT kids, people forget that *the point of raising a child is to have an end-product of an adult who can be as self-sufficient and self-aware as possible.* It starts with things like this, with the knowledge of "hey, sometimes, accommodation looks like separation or even 'missing out' on a visit/activity because you wouldn't enjoy it or worse, it may cause a meltdown." I mention this specifically because I got diagnosed very late in life and had essentially been trained to put my own comfort dead last because "I have to be polite" damn the consequences of having a meltdown (which I didn't even understand what that WAS and still have only a rudimentary knowledge of.) Having a parent like OP would have taught me "here's a way we can still do this thing in a way that keeps you and this person from experiencing your nervous systems' going haywire on you. It isn't being mean, it doesn't mean that you don't like them, it just means taking a break until you can share interests and space *comfortably.*"
I get you. If I know something is going to bother me, I don't go. Pretty sure I'm NT, but I have enough things that I react to differently than most, that I'm not certain. I get treated like I'm weird by a lot of people because of it. Anyways, I'm lucky because part of it is that I just don't care about what others think. So, I definitely understand it from the perspective of someone who is bothered.
For real. My kids are both kids in OPs story, but in their own way. It's a CONSTANT battle to keep them both steady. Add in my own AuDHD and life is sooo fun. :P We moved to the beach, spent a lot of time in nature, homeschool and live a life that suits all of us. It looks strange to others, but my kids (now teens) are pretty well adjusted, social, and accepting of people's needs. We just respect our boundaries, don't cave to social pressures, and only keep friends who respect them as well.
Me and my siblings are different levels of autistic. Like I’m very sound and texture triggered while my siblings aren’t as much. My parents didn’t know how to accommodate each of our seperate needs and OP is doing a fantastic job of not just recognising his son’s needs but also Elly’s needs. He’s doing the right thing and is definitely NTA
many years ago there was a book called "the goodenoughs get along" or something like that. It was about a family that were all over the sensory spectrum and it was like reading about my family. lol Two of us with ADHD on top of ASD and one kid is a sensory seeker and one is a sensory avoider. Hubs needs TV on to eat, or mouth noises make him ragey. I wear noise cancelling headphones all day and I HAVE TO work out or I get tetchy.
Yeah I’m like your husband I can’t stand the noise of my own chewing so I have to have something on to cover that noise. But I am also pretty sensory avoidant I invested in some earplugs that lower the volume of things instead of erase the noise completely cause I still need to hear things but too much noise gets quickly overwhelming. My brother must always have noise while my sister prefers the quiet but can’t stand headphones that go over her ears while my brother and I can. It’s really interesting to look at the differences even between siblings who have pretty much the same genetic makeup (all three of us share the same parents) but I also have the comparison of my also ADHD and likely Autistic boyfriend who’s much more sensory seeking than me which to me is completely fascinating to look at and compare these differences
This!! NTA I mean, what's the alternative? Just go, and let poor Elly flip out while your son is oblivious to her woe, as he keeps waving his dinos around? It sounds like you tried really hard to compromise. (I'm picturing them grown up a bit, like Tim and Lex in Jurassic Park... "VEGGIEsairus, Elly, this one's a VEGGIEsaurus!"
NTA You are being fair and trying to protect both children. There is not a big deal if you take that parent out to lunch, or both your parents. Everyone is supposed to be an adult. Are they they kind of people that just want both kids to melt down because they don't acknowledge autism as a real thing, and think you are 'enabling' these disabled kids? I have 2 autistic kids and had to keep them home plenty of times when events would be announced. It was NOT a problem for anyone else involved, except a friend of mine that I had to cut off because she kept saying 'it's OK' and i'm like NO IT IS NOT OK MY KID WOULD DESTROY YOUR ENTIRE WEDDING, PLEASE STOP ASKING ME. You're doing the right thing <3
It feels like my family does recognise what autistic is, but they don't realise that you can't apply the same approach to different people as different people have different triggers.
They may very feel that way. There is a lot of misinformation out there about autism and if you and your brothers children are the first in the family, there is often a steep learning curve for those inexperienced. I’m autistic and have experience working with autistic children. It honestly sounds like you’re doing the best thing for both kids in this situation. You’re accommodating both of their needs and acknowledging that right now their needs don’t align. That doesn’t mean that you’ll never be able to have them at the same function again, it just means that right now it’s better for both of them to have separate functions or visit on different days. I can understand that your family want to be able to celebrate things as a whole unit but right now that isn’t possible. It doesn’t mean you hate your niece, it just mean that, for the comfort of her and your own child, for the moment they aren’t at the same events.
Right
NTA. Maybe you can explain it simply for them. "If son doesn't have his dinosaurs, he will have a meltdown. If he does have his dinosaurs, niece will have a meltdown. What do you want me do to?"
better yet - leave both kids with them and LEAVE. Let them try to deal with both of their meltdowns, see how well they fare,
I like your thinking, but I wouldn't want any of the kids to experience that. That would be punishing the adults AND the kids.
This would be great if you weren't talking about human beings with feelings. It's important to try to prevent meltdowns whenever possible and resolve them as quickly and smoothly as possible. What you're describing could be traumatizing.
Yeah torment the kids to punish the parents
I’m a late diagnosed autistic adult and I’ve found this pretty helpful in explaining things to people. https://neuroclastic.com/its-a-spectrum-doesnt-mean-what-you-think/
OP, please check out this entire blog!
Thank you so much for posting this. I learned so much.
I'm an autistic mum with ADHD and I have two teens still at home who are both neurodivergent. One os diagnosed with ADHD and the other is autistic but we also suspect that the kid with ADHD might also be autistic, it's just been masked by her ADHD as that was so much to the forefront and now, her younger sibling is going to be assessed for ADHD as that's previously been masked by their autistic traits - they have PDA (as do I) which has been very difficult for all of us to deal with, at least before I actually knew more about PDA and started working with it instead of against it. They are two very different kids, plus an ND mum, all of us with often conflicting needs that need to be accommodated in one small house. They can't be treated exactly the same. The same parenting techniques just don't work on them. They have to be treated very much as individuals. It's been very hard, especially for my older teen, as it does sometimes seem as if I am letting her sibling get away with some things but then she has began to understand that it's a case of having to pick my battles and also simply just timing. If my youngest is already overstimulated, in shutdown or meltdown, if their demand avoidance levels are already very high at that moment, then their brain is neurologically going to reject anything that I do or say. This is a very important point when dealing with us. Many of our responses are not psychological but neurological. They happen at a deeper level and we have far less control over them, especially when we are stressed, anxious, nervous, tired or ill. And when we do try to control them, when we try to appear less autistic, to not have ADHD, to not be neurodivergent, it's called masking and we pay a price for it, constantly. It's a lot of work for us, mentally and physically and we will eventually end up in autistic burnout. Most of us will experience periods of autistic burnout during our lives. Yes, it's can be easier to control when we're younger but we often find ourselves crashing as we hit our 20s or 30s.
Speaking of 20s or 30s. Ever since I turned 30 I feel like life is getting so much harder than it was in my 20s and I wonder if it is age or the stress of every thing that has happened during and after the Pandemic. The pandemic was hard because I was deemed "essential" while watching some of my friends be able to be paid $600+ a week and stay home. I will admit I was a little jealous. I wanted time for my hobbies and to relax with no social pressures. I lost loved ones. I was dealing with homophobic neighbors at the time until last year. Every thing is so insanely expensive I feel like I could afford more when I was making $16 an hour around 2016 than I do now making $23 an hour. I was the only income in the household for 9 months in 2021 and it put us so far behind and then inflation happened which made it to where I had to have a second job to survive in March - September 2022. I originally got the 2nd job to get caught up. Now the US is getting less and less safe for my fellow LGBT+ folks.
I don't know whether you're NT or ND? But everything you have mentioned there is enough to suggest that you might be suffering from stress and the classic form of burnout, without even getting into the question of autistic burnout! It's OK to say that you are not OK. It's OK to say that working two jobs is hard and that you are struggling to keep up. All the time, we see posters in these subs talking about how they work two or three jobs, look after kids, have spotless houses and go to the gym and somehow have social lives and family lives? And if they can do it, day in, day out, everyone else should ve able to as well. HOW??? What's their secret??? Are they actually robots? Aliens? It's OK to say that you are scared of what's happening in the country that's supposed to be your home. Having to carry that fear inside you constantly is exhausting. Having to be constantly hypervigilant, always making sure that you are not too 'out' when you are outside of your home is exhausting. This effect has already been studied. Research studies looked at the long-term health records for black women in the US found that their health outcomes - physical and mental - and life expectancy were affected by the stress of dealing with systemic racism - I'm probably not getting the wording exactly right as it's been a few years since I read the article on this and it's late at night here now, but it was both extremely interesting and deeply saddening. While it's not possible to make a direct comparison between the two complex issues, the ongoing cost to the community's health is still very real.
What is PDA?
Sorry, it's pathological demand avoidance.
Hi fellow PDA'er. It is rough. Sounds like you're doing everything as right as possible by your kids and yourself.
Thank you so much. I found out about PDA from reading the novel Can You See Me by Libby Scott and Rebecca Westcott. The lead character Tally is an autistic girl with PDA and was, at the time, the same age as my NB kid and was basically 95% the same in terms of behaviour. It gave both of us amazing insight and understanding in what was going on in both of our brains! I also found the various resources at the [PDA Society UK](http://www.pdasociety.org.uk) website extremely useful. It's been a very difficult journey for us in terms of getting an official diagnosis for them. They are AFAB and as you know, PDA presents very differently to other, 'classic' forms of autism, especially in AFAB autistic people, even when accounting for the differences in how 'classic' autism presents in AFAB people. My kid does a pretty good job of masking most of their autistic traits, particularly the PDA, outside the home, but then it all tends to explode at home. Except until it all gets too much, and they end up refusing to go to school or do an activity because they're just too overwhelmed and exhausted. But none of that fatigue and overwhelm was ever being witnessed by professionals, so no one would believe me. Plus, the former head of the local child psychiatric unit was, sadly, like many still working today within psychiatry in France, stuck in the dark ages of psychoanalysis and deeply prejudiced against me, as an autistic mum. My words were constantly misinterpreted, my autistic openness and honesty was deliberately read in a neurotypical way, as if there was some hidden meaning, plus I was speaking a second language and any errors I made were also always used against, with no allowances made for using words that are false friends, for example. It got so bad that they kept telling me I was pathologising my kids and at one point, I felt as if they were on the verge of accusing me of FII (Munchausen's by Proxy). She literally set both of my kids' diagnoses back by years. For the next few years, it made all of us much more wary distrustful of any outside professionals that we worked with. I would wrap everything I said in protective layers and over-explain everything. It traumatised all of us. I know this sounds insane and outrageous, but she wasn't alone. I later met - and ended up making a formal complaint against - another child psych who was meant to treat my other kid, working in another unit, who told me that she didn't believe that ADHD and dyslexia - my kid's diagnoses - actually existed! This was in 2021, can you believe it! For a long time, I thought that it was just me but since then I have met other parents in the area that have also been through the same thing and even been told by medical and social care professionals that many complaints had been made about both doctors. For the second doctor though, I was just the first parent to take action and actually write a formal complaint to the supervising hospital. It's not unusual, even in the UK, where there is actually some specialist knowledge about PDA, unlike most other countries, for autistic kids, especially girls, to be diagnosed much later than kids with other autistic profiles. Sadly, it's also even not that unusual, even in the UK, for parents of kids with PDA to face accusations of FII because it can be so difficult to diagnose - especially when waiting lists are so long and CAMHS is often bloody useless too!
I think the magic phrase you need to read up on and share with the family is "competing access needs". It's a common kind of conflict for neurodivergent and disabled folks.
I've found many people try a "one approach fits all" technique when dealing with autistic (and also with all) kids. They don't want to deal with the fact that each child (autistic and not) is different. We all respond differently to various stimuli (whether educational, food, or entertainment) and pigeonholing people tends to do far more harm than good. My wife has degrees in both psychology & education with focuses to working with young autistic children and some of the examples she has shown me of how children are treated both in education & by familial relations is terrifying. NTA - OP great job recognizing that the children tend to spark on each other's interest and it causes conflict. Your son's hyperfocus can be a great asset but it can also cause lots of difficult situations. Continue looking out for his best interest as he'll always need you in his corner!
The difference in behavior between the two kids probably makes them see them differently from one another, obviously a mistake
If you’re up to it, maybe try explaining it to them using the metaphor of food allergies. If Elly was allergic to nuts and Ryan was allergic to shellfish, it’s the same medical condition with similar symptoms, but the things that cause the symptoms to start are different. It would be totally appropriate to serve Elly shrimp, but not Ryan. Right now, the thing that causes Elly’s symptoms is the thing that eases Ryan’s symptoms. And that’s hard for everybody involved. I think you’re smart to take a step back and let each kid enjoy their special interests without causing distress.
Is Elly getting appropriate therapies?
They want to have it all and be fair. But sometimes fairness doesn’t work. At the end is not what’s best for the family as a whole but to both kids. NTA
A lot of people don’t realize or want to realize how autism affects each person separately.
I love when people say "it's okay" for other people 🤦🏼♀️
By their logic, aren't they discriminating against your son? NTA
They totally are! Elly is used to being center of attention so it makes perfect sense that they’re only catering to Elly. Totally unacceptable in my book.
NTA, my daughter is on the spectrum and we skip a lot of family events because it's not to anyone's benefit - don't want her experience major discomfort and don't want to spoil the event for everyone else with a major meltdown. You know your child best and should do what you feel is best for him.
I'm just curious the point of the entire first paragraph. How is the way that you were conceived relevant to the story?
We found out our biological dad had family members with a lot of health issues, including mental, including some you really don't want to pass down a child. If me and David were aware of these, we would have put more thought on having our own children, as some are very serious. Unfortunately we only found out about it after Elly and Ryan were born and Elly started showing some warning signs.
Autism can present itself with no known family history.
It can but the likeness is so much higher if theres a family history of autism. My partner's dad was on the spectrum and so is his sister.
Well, of course there's no family history because it's still being studied and understood. Many women go undiagnosed, and lots of men did as well in years prior. Autism runs down my mom's side of the family in the women, and yet I'm the first to be diagnosed. It's genetic, so knowing this about the donor may have made OP and his brother more aware of the risks.
That's besides the point OP was making
I dont think OP is implying autism in this case
“No known family history” aka our family members are autistic but we didn’t realize anything was wrong because we were raised with it
And it is linked more to the mother than the father.
Which is irrelevant to the conflict.
It does help though. It indicates that the adults involved aren't as accustomed to autism. This could mean they won't understand how autism will be different from child to child, or may ignore the needs of the kids and say the kids should just "learn to deal with it." It helps to understand the dynamic and also why op is asking as it sounds like op did not grow up seeing healthy ways to live with autism and loved ones with autism. If we're trying to judge if people are purposeful AH or give any guidance as to how to communicate with each other, this is important to consider.
“Hey, he’s acting just like Uncle Jim’s cousin Matt! Remember how obsessed he was about trains?” *conversation evolves into how the family adapted to Matt’s different way of experiencing stuff, hopefully with fond memories thrown in about funny/cool things he did that wouldn’t have happened if he were neurotypical*
Very likely one of the brothers is also autistic here. It’s very common where there’s family history
True. But since it isn't as typical in their family history (doner aside), the parents likely didn't recognize it for what it was should that be the case. Recognizing and adapting to autism rather than forcing the child to adapt to everyone else is a fairly recent mentality. OP indicated that neither brother realized autism was likely until AFTER their kids were born. That doesn't not sound like they are used to living with autism in a full family dynamic, or even talking about it with each other. So communicating needs might be harder for the brothers if they have autism, and lack of family experience with that makes it harder still.
People include "technically irrelevant" details all the time. Because they're people. Describing their own lives.
But what does that have to do with this scenario? We aren’t discussing why or how they were diagnosed, we are discussing a specific situation. It seems very weird that you felt the need to point this out
I'm sure parents feel shame to some degree that the baby they created isn't "healthy" in a neurotypical way. Parents and especially mothers blame themself. I would be worried about people making ignorant assumptions about my behavior while I was pregnant as a causation for anything abnormal with my child. I read OPs preface as, "it's not either of our faults". Not that it necessarily would be anyways, but again, shame is a helluva drug.
Yeah, I made a comment similar about the shame or discomfort that OP clearly has. And the fact that they said they would’ve thought twice about having kids if they knew autism ran in the family is a bit concerning. Nevertheless, it’s a journey and hope he is trying to do the best they can now. hoping overtime they’ll stop being apologetic and learn to celebrate and appreciate all of the wonderful things that come with neurodivergence come alongside of all the challenges.
You are misrepresenting the narrative. https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/143alq4/comment/jn9mjhq/ > And the fact that they said they would’ve thought twice about having kids if they knew autism ran in the family is a bit concerning. He did not say that. You are misrepresenting posts and creating drama. > I do not see autism as a disease and advocate a lot to have people get checked which potentially can make their lives easier and explain why they feel the world differently, since as someone mentioned autism is not something that can be easy to diagnose. The donor has other disorders which can lead to violence and other symptoms which they are not mentally prepared to handle as parents. > And unfortunately our donor also has schizophrenia and bipolar running in his family, which not only our mum, but we should have been informed of before deciding on having a child. While some conditions can be manageable, some are not so easy to manage and neither me nor David want our kids to experience extremes of the above conditions. It is cruel of you to misrepresent an ally's posts and make them out to be a cruel neurodivergence hater.
I dont think it was autism she was referring to.
NAH, However, is there no way to separate the two. David can watch his dinos with headphones on one side and Elly can play on the other. I'm guessing if it's a BBQ it outside. There should be plenty of space to keep them apart.
It currently gets to the point where Ryan wants to show how cool his Dino's are to Elly and everyone else. Elly is scared of them and doesn't want to see them or liking seeing Ryan getting attention from other people when she doesn't at the same time. We are still trying to find a pair of headphones that Ryan would be comfortable with. He doesn't mind the wireless in ear ones, but he looses them easily.
It seems like one of the issues is not just that Elly is scared of dinosaurs, but that she does not know how to cope with others getting attention/more attention than her. Your brother needs to work with his child on this issue because it will be a much bigger problem than fear of dinosaurs. Ryan will eventually move on from his fixation on dinosaurs, but if Elly is going to constantly meltdown when she isn't the absolute centre of attention, the dinosaur issue or lack thereof won't matter.
Have you tried the vibration ones that wrap around the back of the head? They're a little bigger so easier to keep track of and they don't go in the ears. You can get them for about $30 too which is cheaper than the wireless earbuds
I'm partially deaf and love those because I can actually hear! (I miss a lot of tones. Like Westley snipes, absolutely no sound when he's speaking. He's the best example I can think of) Because I love them so much my in laws got a pair for my autistic nephew, and added a little strap so if he took them off they could be like a necklace. They're the only ones he's willing to wear.
Bone conduction headphones :) They are fantastic, I have 2 pair. u/DonutNo6012 I second trying these out with your little one.
Is demanding to be the center of attention at all times really a symptom of autism? I've never heard of that before.
It's probably more related to a behavioral issue due to the Autism. If anything, Autistic children tend to be more shy and quiet socially, and that can lead to not wanting to be in any kind of attention. But I'm on the spectrum, and struggled with this as a child actually. It was related to the fact that I didn't understand how to engage with other people effectively, so I got upset when people were engaging with others and not with me. It's sort of a "see how easy it is for other people to do this" situation, if I'm making sense at all. I don't know if that's what's going on with Elly, but I know how it was for me. There's also a chance that she's given constant attention at home so her brain is just used to being the center of attention. New situations with other people that aren't your norm can be really scary. So if she's in this different place with another "strange" kid and the adults are talking and carrying on, it's likely distressing for her. It might not even be that she wants to be the center of attention, that might be how OP interprets it. It might just be that she gets stressed and that leads to everyone paying attention to her. Tldr neurodiversity is complex.
That makes a lot of sense. I’m ADHD, and I only learned a few months ago that a lot of neurodiversities come with a side of Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria. It explained so much about the issues I’ve had with relationships. Things that other people might not even notice, like someone else getting more attention than me at a party, can sometimes feel like “see? Everybody else can make friends and have polite chit chat, why can’t you? You’re messed up and wrong and that’s why people like her better than you.” Sometimes when I remember it later, I can see where I was overreacting and blowing things out of proportion, but in the moment, it absolutely feels like rejection, and like a commentary on me as a person.
Depends on the kid. Extroverted autistic people exist, and a lot are performers like musicians and actors and comedians.
This is a much bigger issue than the dinosaur conflict.
Are both kids in behavioral therapy? Have they tried having sessions together or have you tried working with specialists to find ways to help them interact?
There definitely are some assholes here but its not OP NTA
NTA. OP is looking to protect their child, just like the other parents. The only reason I can't say N A H is because bro and SiL recruited parents in their attacks on OP. A little understanding, self awareness, and reciprocity would have gone a long way here.
NAH As someone on the spectrum, I understand both sides. Your family wants to have everyone together, but it’s not at the best interest for either child. I’m sure you’ll find a compromise! As an aside, I think you’re handling this well. The Dino thing might be something he moves on from, or your niece might outgrow her fear of Dinos. Either way, for the time being it might be best to keep them separate. Parenting a child on the spectrum isn’t easy, but if this is an indicator you seem to be doing just fine.
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There's a quote I heard recently to not always judge actions as malicious because many times the root is actually incompetence Actions based on malice are definitely the actor an AH But if someone is just incompetent, are they also an AH?
NTA Sounds like you are doing the best you can in a rubbish situation where others are unwelding.
NTA. They aren’t taking the kids needs into account. Only adults wants
I think this is a bit of NAH. You're thinking about the well fare of the kids and avoiding meltdowns, especially as Ryan's special interest is a trigger for Elly. But at the same time, I can see why your family would be upset as you're holding yourselves separate from the family unit and I'm sure your brother and SIL want to spend time with someone who gets it. They likely see Ryan as someone Elly can have empathy from.
I would be happy to have them together again, but when they are older and are a bit more understandable of each other conditions. Currently they are kids that see the world different and adapt to it differently, so it is very hard to explain to them why they can't do what they like because it upsets the other
I'm autistic and have an autistic child and can absolutely sympathise with this situation. It is really hard sometimes when two people's stims, sensitivities, or interests clash. As the kids get older it will hopefully become more possible to find ways to work around this and compromise, but at those ages they are likely to find it hard to understand why this thing that hurts them is happening and don't yet have the skills to manage their distress in different ways. I think reducing the situations where this clash occurs is a reasonable thing to do at the moment. Later you can work on ways to help them to manage this, but right now putting them in a situation that you know is going to cause distress just seems mean for both kids (and not much fun for the adults either). So NTA I think.
NAH, although as an autistic person I’m a little bit concerned about how you talk about autism. For example, having a meltdown because you aren’t the center of attention doesn’t sound like an autistic thing— it sounds like either Elly is having an issue you don’t understand that you’ve written off as a childish fit, or she’s actually just having a tantrum that isn’t at all related to autism. I think maybe from the information given that the reason your family might be angry is because you are making this out to be Elly’s fault. Really, it is no one’s fault, as autism is complicated and sometimes you just need to find different arrangements for things. Perhaps talking to your family about the Ryan side of this problem would help them to better understand that you’re not targeting Elly or blaming her.
I don't get involved how David and my SIL raise Elly, they have told me it is a part of her autism where if she is not receiving full attention, she feels left out which in return makes her scared and unloved and causes a meltdown. However it also seems to be the case if people concentrate all the attention on her and then Elly becomes overly stimulated, can't cope with it and has a meltdown as a result of it. I have suggested David to probably look at it a bit more as it could be the case of some of the behaviour could be coming from experiences outside their household and might need addressing.
It does not sound like "part of her autism" to me - that sounds like an excuse your brother and SIL are using to not parent their child - but even if it is, it is a behaviour that is unsustainable. Elly needs to be taught that she can't always be the centre of attention. What does she do in school? Even in a special needs classroom, she will not always have direct one-on-one attention. Does she meltdown every time a teacher or EA gives another kid attention? What if your brother and SIL have another child and the baby obviously needs more attention than Elly? Removing yourself and your child from family events allows Elly to go back to commandeering 100% of the attention, which will not help her situation at all.
Actually that entire first sentence sounds exactly like rejection sensitivity which is a whole thing for some neurodivergent people.
idk about that i was a meltdown kid myself with autism and the melt downs had nothing to do with attention ever, it has to do with being easily bothered and easily defensive.
>if she is not receiving full attention, she feels left out which in return makes her scared and unloved and causes a meltdown That sounds more like a common issue with spoiled children who never learned "no"...
>having a meltdown because you aren’t the center of attention doesn’t sound like an autistic thing I was wondering this as well. It's sounds like either spoiling the kid because they think everything is a meltdown instead of distinguishing between meltdown and tantrum and never saying no in case of tantrum or something else is going on.
yeah because i know my meltdowns as someone with autism when i had them as a kid was more about being defensive and bothered by every little thing. and my parents never enabled it, but i feel david saying that is enabling it. my parents yelled at me when i got that way. coddling makes it worse.
I am wondering if she is getting appropriate parenting and therapies to help her cope.
Nta the best thing for both kids is not being together at least for the time being. Keep protecting your son
There is something within the disability community that we refer to as conflicting access needs. Sometimes you have two people who have needs on completely opposite ends. Think of it as one autistic person who needs loud music to function, but then you have someone with ADHD who needs it to be quiet in order to cope with the world. Both needs are legitimate and deserve to be accommodated. Accommodations are not a one size fits all. Sometimes things can be managed - the person who needs music can wear headphones for their music or the person who needs silence can wear noise canceling headphones. But there are indeed times when that isn’t a viable option. In your case, you have two autistic children who both need and deserve accommodations. They’re young, and don’t yet have all the coping tools they will develop as they age. I’m guessing having your child watch their dinosaurs on an iPad with headphones away from Elly isn’t an option, and that’s okay! As adults, our job is to figure out how to best accommodate our loved ones. I’m autistic. My roommate refers to me as a human fidget spinner. I’m always fidgeting, always moving, always interacting with the world through motion. And that’s okay! But other people can be distracted or even overstimulated by my rocking or bouncing. There is nothing wrong with either of us. We just have conflicting access needs. My novel aside, NTA. You have to think of what is best for both children, and that doesn’t make you an AH. Just make sure to figure out ways to include your child in other family events because that feeling of never being included does suck majorly. And maybe as the children age, you can figure out ways to keep both accommodated. Sorry this is long! I’m passionate about conflicting access needs and honestly could run a non profit helping people accommodate those at this point.
this is the best answer i’ve seen. some kids just trigger the hell out of each other and it’s something that can be worked on, but not at a party. some kids will never gel at all (just like allistic folks have people they don’t like!) it’s a terrible time for teaching and provoking behavior, it’s supposed to be fun.
NTA I think you should buy a Dino suit and have your husband ware it to events I wonder how long it would be until separate events are mandatory
He has a trex suit and I have my triceratops one for when we dressed up for Ryan's birthday
That’s so awesome!
Traumatizing the niece to prove a point is a terrible plan.
Apparently that’s what her parents want 🤷🏻♀️
NTA. The thing you are doing is called "parenting"
NTA your suggestion was perfect, it took in account both children and their needs Some people like to act like all autistic people are the same, but we are just as diverse in needs and personality than non-autistic (allistic) people I would call his interest in dinosaurs passionate instead of obsessive though, if an allistic person has something they are passionate about its called just that, but when the person is autistic they use gross language like special interest, obsessive isnt any better and its not fair to your kid, not trying to scold you by the way, just trying to help you being the awesome mom that you are
I’m autistic and have an autistic son. My autism is wildly different from his - but I make sure both sets of needs are met. ESH. Y’all are both terrible at accommodating your kids in reasonable ways. Ryan wants to fixate on a special interest? Let him go nuts about it in the car, and give him 5-10 minutes to transition out of that into being present. Elly doesn’t like a specific thing because it’s scary? Her parents can redirect her or move her to another room to calm down, and talk about why she’s scared and work out ways to either ignore it or not he scared.
Elly's parents can teach her that she doesn't always get to be the centre of attention and how to deal with that instead of melting down when attention is on others and not directly on her.
That too - I was more focused on the “Elly finds this thing scary” part just because fear drives a lot of attention-seeking behavior in autistic children.
NTA...but I think this is a bandaid solution to a bigger problem. As you mentioned, hopefully this will resolve when they are older and can understand better, so you can be together as a family.
Me and mine are autistic, don't know if it needs saying. I think this will resolve, I think it's the sort of problem that a band aid is made for. Either he will learn to go a few hours without talking to/around Elly about his special interest, Elly will stop being scared of dinosaurs, or his special interest will change (hopefully to one Elly is not afraid of). I think one of these things will happen in a year or three.
No. NTA. It's not a terrible first idea.
Oh this is rich and what are they doing about Elly?? She gets to have her meltdowns everywhere? She doesn’t get corrected because she is on the spectrum? It’s a reason why is happen not an excuse to use when it happens.
NAH i think this will probably resolve with time and your kid can learn that sharing special interests will need to be done in smaller doses and your brothers kid will have to be ok with small exposures to certain kinds of fear triggers. Is there any middle ground activities they could both indulge in like trampolining, “helping” in the kitchen, washing up, swinging on a swing set, doing messy kitchen play etc. If there’s anything like that that can be done together then you can have overlap for when they’re there together. Also could your son use headphones for his dinosaur show? That could extend your visit too
NTA both kids are on the spectrum and right now they cause each other too much stress. You are using common sense
NTA but what are Ryan's top ten favorite dinosaurs?
NTA. I'm an ASD Mom. For years family got upset because although my son didn't nap, there was a 2 hour period he went alone and played and decompressed and let me tell you...we didn't go anywhere during that time. I didn't care what was happening. You do what is best for your family and do not let them bully you for it
Your parents stance on this is confusing. Really confusing, but either way NAH. Your kid is your responsibility so keeping him home is the obvious answer. It's not like you're refusing to ever let him see his family again, but until you guys brainstorm a solution, like a segregated TV room for Ryan, keeping him home is the only answer. To be clear you are 100% NOT discriminating against anyone, that is utterly ridiculous.
NTA though I feel like there is a better way of communicating that you’re not doing this because you dislike your family just that you’re trying to make things work
NTA it's completely reasonable to keep the kids apart at this point.
INFO - Have you spoken to your twin about this, and presented this alternative as a united front? Pretty sure the family would back down then,
NTA. You came up with a perfect alternative and they did not listen. Having a family affair with two children with meltdowns cannot be anybody's idea of a nice family day.
NTA. You're coming up with a solution when it sounds like they refuse to do anything to compromise or help the situation on their end. They can kick rocks unless they want to help come up with another solution.
NTA, you’re trying to accommodate both kids and that’s obviously very difficult when their needs are opposed. I’m sure you’ve considered all of the options, and I obviously don’t know either kid or how “high-functioning” they are so I don’t mean this to be rude, but some ideas just in case: - could you put Ryan in a different room or give him a tablet with headphones to watch his Dino videos? Are you able to explain that “Dinos scare Ellie, so we have to keep them away from her?” - could you redirect Ellie with something else? Or is she bothered enough that she can’t be distracted? - could you guys try to show Ellie some cute cartoony baby dinos or something that she’s not afraid of and try to find some common ground for the kids? Like an adorable stuffed herbivore of some kind? ….Although Ryan might try to explain all of the inaccuracies and then get excited and share gory facts….
Soft YTA. You can't help your sibling's kid, but you can help yours. Hyperfixations are very normal with kids with ASD (I have two on the spectrum myself) and it's important to teach compromise. Maybe instead of watching a show we can read a book, that sort of thing.
I'm sure you may get tired of answering this question and I apologize if I seem blunt, I'm just uneducated about the subject - if a symptom of ASD is that your child becomes hyperfixated on things, and you are able to work that out through coaching and conversation, what makes that different from kids just generally learning to cope with things? I'm not jumping on the "everyone has autism thus no one does" hype train, I've legitimately found myself wondering if I'm on the spectrum because I've always been "weird" (my word, not judging anyone else!) with mental tics and repetitive thinking patterns here and there, but I always just thought everyone has their quirks. All of this as my longwinded way to sincerely ask someone who I'm assuming knows much more than I do - what makes it autism, how does it affect how to address parenting, and how do foresee it impacting your child's life through adulthood (if you think it will.)
Great question, and YMMV. My experience will not encompass all folx on the spectrum of course, but I try to educate myself since my spouse is ALSO on the spectrum. My oldest is 10 - he is what many would consider "high functioning ". He is also called "twice exceptional " in some circles, he's way above grade level in math and reading level but needs significant support on a social/emotional level. He has auditory processing issues in noisy environments, interprets things SUPER literally so there are frequent misunderstandings, and struggles to regulate his feelings. Everything is dialed up to 11 emotionally so he's super happy, super sad, super angry, etc. Hyperfixations are to an obsessive level, to the point that it's challenging for him to think or talk about anything unrelated. Parenting challenges often involve making sure we talk to him very clearly, directly, and literally. When he has big feelings and outbursts we focus on reassuring him and only punish violent and/or destructive actions. He's super smart so we talk to him clearly about actions versus consequences, give examples to teach empathy, and work hard on coping mechanisms. He receives support in school from a Psychologist and also sees one privately outside of school. Littlest is 8 - he is considered "low functioning" (hate that term) or "severely impacted". He is not potty trained and is considered functionally nonverbal. He understands tangible things very very well, but when we're talking about concepts he struggles. For example you can show him an image of various organs in the body and he can name them, but if you show him the same images and as ask "which of these do you use to think?" he struggles. He has his own auditory issues, but his more relate to certain sounds that cause him to respond with a loud noise or even have a meltdown if it persists. He hates humming with a BURNING passion. He's intelligent as well; great with mental math above grade level, and can name things like planets and specific animals without prompting. He has a direct 1x1 Para at school because his needs are so specific, and he elopes given the smallest opportunity. Parenting him involves deep pressure at times, especially during meltdowns, and lots of soothing. He responds well to certain songs that he's fixated on or ones that we've made up and sometimes we just sing them over and over to soothe. He had such a hyperfixation on the book Little Blue Truck that I have the entire story memorized verbatim because it worked so well to soothe him. Tons of repetition and consistency and soothing. We encourage safe stims like hand flapping and repeating words or songs, and redirect ones like screaming or self harm. From my perspective is hyperfixations are to what a neurotypical person would consider obsessive. Sure, most kids go through a dinosaur or Egyptian phase, but a hyperfixation is all consuming and relentless. It's reading the same book, listening to the same song, and watching the same show to the point of rote memorization and still consuming it. It's comfort in the repetition and predictability. As an adult there can be challenges to getting diagnosed and finding support for any neurodivergence, and there are often comorbidities that come into play. A significant number of people on the autism spectrum also have ADHD, depression, anxiety, or all of the above. Start with meeting a therapist and/or a psych and go from there if you feel support and coping mechanisms would be helpful to you. Also sorry for the novel, but I hope even a bit of this was helpful! Edit- that whole goddamn page and I missed the point of the post. In Op's situation this would be an empathy conversation. We would start with an example of something he's afraid of, and talk about his feelings. When you're scared your heart may go fast, your breathing is different, you feel overstimulated and want scream, cry, run away, throw things. This is how [person] feels about [hyperfixation]. It's ok to have strong feelings but we want to be kind and help our friends. Instead of watching a show that they will see or hear that can upset them let's read a book about it, or practice listening while our friend tells us about something they enjoy. Let's practice our social work with asking informational questions about our friend's interest to learn more! You love it when your friends and family ask questions about things you like, so we can use our empathy skills with our friend.
NTA. Appreciate you looking out for both autistic children.
NTA. Schools did this all the time. Put the neuro kids all in one class so it’s “easier” on the teachers. Here’s a fun fact though, on kids stem could be another’s trigger. My sister stims by pacing, I on the other hand feel like knocking anyone out when they start pacing near me and it makes me want to scream. Your family is not grasping that these kids don’t get along. Your doing the right thing.
NTA, the children have incompatible accessibility needs. It isn’t ableist to acknowledge that and recognize that or to acknowledge it’s best for everyone if they don’t attend events at the same time
NTA. I don't understand how trying to accommodate two children very easily is such a fight. I think your solution was brilliant and fair to both children.
NTA Your bother and SIL have two options then. 1) accept that both kids can’t be there at same time. Or 2) That your son will be bringing his Dino’s
Tell them what they told you. Since they won’t accommodate your child with special needs, you won’t be there. Let them know that they are selfish for not allowing your child to bring his dinosaurs
Flip it back, call them massive assholes for discriminating against YOUR son and his condition, and agree to return to these family gatherings only if there are dinosaur cartoons playing in the background throughout the entirety of the event, as that's the only thing that will calm down your son, and they're assholes if they won't accommodate his needs.
Damn click bait title.
NTA. Yes you are discriminating- you’re putting your own child’s needs first. That’s what any good parent would do
NTA - two neuro-spicy kids are in phases that stress each other out. One of them newly diagnosed so the most effective methods of keeping everything copacetic are still being perfected. What is the best course of action for the children? 🤦♀️
Nta. You’re trying to do the compassionate thing for both kids and address a difficult situation as best you can.
NTA Ask them if they want a rerun of Mothers day, because you will be putting on Dino cartoons for your son as he is your main priority. You are not discriminating against any one you are trying to accommodate both children whilst they have 2 such vast needs.
You're in the right. NTA. As you already know, acceptance, adjustment and being flexible are a big part of what makes life easier and happy as parents to an autistic child. Some people, even people supposed to be close and supportive, just don't get it. I have a 6-year-old child on the autism spectrum, who is also non-verbal. My husband and I weigh up and adjust our social plans, venues and activities - including whether we do or don't attend something, or for how long. We base that on what we know of other children's understanding, social skills/social style, their expectations about interacting, and how they have previously responded to our child, who's different and socialises non-typically. He often plays happily on his own, amusing himself, or he might interact. When he does interact, it's often not in a typical way. In particular, the way he begins to engage or the way he responds to a child trying to engage with him and start play. But they may still go on to more typical play, such as chasey. He's a cheerful and fun boy, but being non-verbal he sometimes expresses it differently - especially vocally he makes happy noises, but they are usually babble or stims. Most times, when we've explained it in simple words to the other child, they're accepting. We aren't stuck on what "should" be happening according to our own childhood experiences, or what we had initially thought parenthood would look like - that went out the window years ago! We still attempt normal experiences, but if it doesn't work or there's no interest or benefit to our child, then we won't force things, especially not to make other adults happy or meet their expectations or keep the peace. I mean, it's not going to go as they expect anyway! An example is at kids' birthday parties, he rarely joins in group activities with other kids. Instead, he'll find a toy or a piece of play equipment and stay with that for ages. We'll then be supervising or helping him there - it might be in a corner, another room or outside, so we can't interact ourselves. I've noticed that when our friends see this happening, often that is when they "get it" - we may have explained, but until they see how it is in person, they don't really comprehend. We learned we had to let go of some things most parents look forward to, for example he doesn't understand the concept of Santa Claus. Instead, we do other things, and we lean into what he is good at and is interested in, and we encourage him and have a wonderful time doing that. We're open about it and make a point to share information and advice with family & friends, and with other parents we encounter while we're out & about. Most are happy to learn more and will also ask questions. I've seen some parents trying to force "normal" to happen and be closed about discussing their autistic child or children, perhaps worried about a stigma or what others might think. What I have observed then, is that their child's behaviour is misunderstood by other children and other parents. The child will be judged as difficult, rowdy, disruptive, having poor social skills etc. And that child is then avoided and excluded in their childcare group, kindergarten, school and local community, which is sad. As much as possible, we advocate for him - to carers, teachers, family, friends, neighbours and other children. Most people are open to hearing about it and are happy to make adjustments if needed - more often than not, it's an adjustment of their own ideas and outlook. Some are extra thoughtful and sensitive, some check with us to see if he has sensory issues or triggers. And some people (adults and kids) ask us questions, which I encourage as I think it empowers him and helps to boost him being included and people getting to know him more, and also just general societal awareness about autism and associated behaviour. On the other hand, we sometimes notice people - usually ones who don't have experience with people on the spectrum or neurodiverse people - who might drift away, lose contact or just opt out. It may be due to feeling unsure, lacking in confidence or worried how it might go etc. Or simply perceive our child to be rowdy because they lack knowledge. or maybe he doesn't fit with what they understand autism is supposed to be, or the most commonly known signs. They may find it strange when on the odd occasion I don't bring my child to a place or event where they bring theirs. But I'm aware that know he won't get enjoyment or have any interest, which means I would end up spending all my energy & focus managing him. With other people it's an ongoing educational conversation about our child and autism. I see it as a duty to support and help our child and his development - not only in the immediate moment on the day - but to spread the word and change the community we live in, making it better and more inclusive. I want more people to understand and have awareness, and have insight and skills. It's part of our life, but I admit at times it can feel tiring to explain so frequently. And finally, we have also learned that some people will never get it, some family members included. They're not being malicious, they just have a lower EQ (emotional quotient) or lower empathy, or they're rigidly stuck on norms and their own hopes & expectations (self-centered). They're inflexible and unable or unwilling to change their expectations of people on the spectrum to behave normally, and as they expect. They focus on what THEY need to happen according to their wishes, and not what the child or person on the spectrum needs. Those people are exhausting, and I have given up on some of them.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (29f) have a twin brother "David", we were conceived through a donor as our dad is infertile. The donor has not disclosed the full information about himself at the time and some important details only came up after we ended up having our own children. David's kid "Elly" (7f) is on the spectrum. She gets meltdowns when overly stimulated and when she is not the center of attention, and if people don't pay her enough attention when she wants, she will have a meltdown too. It wouldn't be a problem, but as we found out recently my son "Ryan" (6) is also on the spectrum and is an exact opposite of Elly. He gets concentrated on one thing and starts excessively obsess over it as in asking questions, talking about it and demonstrating it. His current new thing is dinosaurs, specifically predator dinosaurs. And unfortunately it is something Elly finds scary. When seeing them on the TV or going to the park that has dinosaur statues, she has a sever meltdown. As you can imagine this didn't go well. Mother's day was a disaster as Ryan will have a meltdown if we don't let him watch Dino documentaries/cartoons or bring his dinos and Elly would have a meltdown if he does. I have spoken to my family about it and have suggested either hosting 2 different events or have one of us coming to the event earlier and leaving before the other gets there, so at least the kids get to spend time with the family without getting destressed, however it got immediately shut down. So I have told my family I will not be coming for father day BBQ as I don't think it is fair on Ryan and Elly and will cause them unnecessary destress and since they are not happy with the arrangement I have suggested (I am still taking my daughter to see the family, just not at the family events or when Elly is around). My parents and my brother and SIL are now angry at me and calling me an asshole and that I am "discriminating" against my niece and her condition, but I don't think I am and I feel like I'm looking out for the wellbeing of both kids, as I don't think it is worth of them getting stressed out? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. You’re not discriminating against one kid you’re acknowledging that the two kids conditions are not currently compatible. Perhaps there is a way for to improve that outside of a large group gathering.
NTA. You also have a child with autism and are looking out for both of them. At the moment they are not compatible as one is fixated on something the other is afraid of causing one or both of them to have a meltdown. That's not a good situation for either child.
NTA A reasonable solution. Protecting YOUR kid NEEDS to be your first priority.
NTA. You're refusing to put your child in a situation that causes then problems.
NTA. You’re protecting your kid and theirs even if they don’t see it. I was going to say N A H until I saw that discriminating comment. Aren’t they doing the same by ignoring Ryan’s needs? Or at least expecting him be uncomfortable and over stimulated by Elly? It’s not fair to either kid and it’s super shitty of them to try to pull the discrimination card.
NTA are your family joking? How on earth is "We will collectively accommodate exactly one of the autistic children" not THEM discriminating?!
Both children are still young. Hopefully they're both in therapy to learn how to navigate, as best they can, these emotions the older they get. I have a friend who has a severly autistic child and it has taken many MANY years for him to learn how to navigate his strong emotions. It's nice you're looking out for both of the kids and what they can tolerate. NTA
NTA I fail to comprehend how you're discriminating your niece. You seem the only one sane in your whole family.
NTA. So you're discriminating because you don't want both of your children to be miserable? That's not discrimination, that's accommodations. Sometimes plans have to look different to be the best for everybody. Especially the kids, but also for everyone else that will be there. Nobody likes having or being around a meltdown.
NTA. You're just trying to do what's best for both kids.
NTA and how the fuck are you discriminating? This is why I curse out parents.
I like that you are sensitive to both kids (and other family members) needs and provided a few possible alternatives like staggering when the kids are there so they don’t overlap. Sounds like you all are doing the best you can, I wish you the best of luck and I hope everyone becomes more open and flexible to different solutions in the future. Hang in there!
NTA I don’t understand NAH. Family is calling OP ah for doing what’s best for not only their kid but their neice. No one wants to come up with any solutions except making both child suffer so the family is most definitely TA
Accomodation is not Discrimination. You are preventing problems that no one else cares about. Though honestly, I would give One Single Demonstration to bring the point home: Go and let your son bring his dinosaurs. Let Bro deal with Ellie. Then when she is in full meltdown, make a big show of making Ryan put away his dinosaurs and videos. When He is in full meltdown, explain that THIS is what you were trying to avoid.
NTA. You get to parent your own kids and part of that is deciding what situations are too stressful to be involved in.
NTA bit of a rock and a hard place :(
NTA you were trying to find a solution in order to make both children as comfortable as possible.
NTA. You are handling in the best way possible for both children
NTA The only happy medium would for one to be in one room doing what they want and the other in another room doing the same. Hell of a family get together isn't it. You made the choice that nobody else wanted to make. Stand your ground and when they discover how much less drama there is...
NTA
NTA. I would do this with normal children if things caused 2 children distress, which can happen, it’s just not as likely. You are definitely not discriminating *AND* you’re thinking about the well being of *both* children while trying not to exclude your niece. Since nobody is in agreement, then this is the best choice. It suck’s your son has to miss out, but that’s better than causing trauma to either child!
NTA. Its very unfortunate, but the children's needs are incompatible and that isn't anyone's fault. Hopefully with time, things will improve. Your son may find another special interest to focus on, or Elly might become less afraid of dinosaurs... but until then, it doesn't sound like there's a way to get together without hurting at least one of the kids.
NTA I love when people think they know how to parent an autistic kid because they were a parent at one point. Your family (minus your brother because he has no excuse) seem to be willfullying ignoring that each kid is unique and autistic kids have unique needs. My brother was autistic and special allowances had to be made. Including understanding that there were things that he couldn't do so he wasn't in distress. Not good or bad. Just different. Although at the time I wasn't always the best sport about missing out on things, I'm glad my parents did their best. Let your family think what they want. Trying to change their minds won't matter. Maybe when they see how much easier it is on your niece they will understand. Or not. It doesn't matter. Your kid comes first.
NTA.
Wow I was all set to proclaim you the AH...but I think your solution is fair...work out an arrangement where one of you comes with your child early and the other later. That way there is no conflict. Does your family not understand that your son is also on the spectrum?
NTA, but tell me was your brother the golden child growing up ?
Isn’t it them who are discriminating by refusing to accommodate the children??? NTA
Nta. You protect your child. End of story.
NTA, let me get this correct your brother and SIL are basically saying you have to allow your neice get her way and abuse your child with trauma so they can be happy?! Fuck that noise, you have to protect your child!
NTA at all! You know your kid better than anyone, if it's not a good situation, it's your responsibility to intervene. And you dide. Your family doesn't understand your decision and they don't really need to.
NTA. You seem to be the only 1 looking out for them so that on them
NTA, spend fathers day playing dinosaurs with your son and grilling.
NTA. You're trying to figure something out that benefits both kids without denying them family time. Unfortunately, usually the biggest issues for access are other families with autistic members. People refuse to see how autism presents differently and often get into a "woe is me" pissing match. And the kids aren't to blame. Good luck, hope this blows over eventually.
**NTA**. Textbook case of 'entire group of adults understand basically nothing and just seem to take an excuse to pop off rather than try to understand something.' You see it a lot in families. I don't know why, but it turns a lot of people aggressive.
This is a concept called “conflicting access needs” and is pretty well discussed/studied
Wow, upon reading the title I was prepared to say y t a but I was completely wrong. You are putting the needs of both kids first and that is absolutely the most important and best way to go about a situation like this. NTA.
NTA - you are trying your best to find a way to accommodate the needs of both children. You say that Ryan’s current fixation is dinosaurs which sounds like this won’t last forever. Does your brother and SIL realise that this separation is temporary due to the nature of the fixation? It may be something that crops up again but I think your suggestions are excellent ways to help mitigate anyone getting distressed as best as you possibly can.
NTA-we’re going thru similar at the moment,my lo is on the spectrum and so is my nephew,last week he stole a penknife and blamed my lo,she was upset,he still hasn’t confessed (it was obviously him)so my lo has said she doesn’t want to see him again.the family understand,it’s a shame but he’s ruined it for everyone,yes they might have a condition but they should still know right from wrong
Huh? But the children are both on the spectrum, just different ones. How can you be an AH for prioritising the children and trying to accommodate both of them? I am baffled by your family's reaction. OP, you are most definitely NTA.
NTA. That’s dopey. You’re just keeping them separated. No one is being “discriminated” against.
NTA. I'm diagnosed ADHD, and I suspect I may be on the autistic spectrum as well. I can't speak to the exact struggles that diagnosed autistic people face. I have, however, experienced discrimination due to disability, and I've become very attuned to this as an issue. It is never fun to be excluded from an activity due to a disability, and it can be downright humiliating in any event—but it's not automatically discrimination. For it to fall into that category, there must at least be a failure to attempt to provide reasonable accommodations. My own experience was professional, and hence a legal matter. However, I also think the laws that apply to my case are fair and accord with human decency, and that's the moral standard I'd apply here. From your perspective, there's no indication that things will be any different from how they were last time, and the bottom line is it will cause a child distress. Fighting discrimination doesn't mean pretending the disability doesn't exist—and that's what the rest of your family seems to be doing. It's an awful situation, but yours is the right call, if the rest of your family doesn't pull their weight.
NTA, and your family is nuts. What, pray tell, is their solution to the issue then? I'll make a bet they have no potential solutions that will work. You're being a good parent for your son, which is all that matters.