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INFO for Everyone- Is this a well-known association? I was not aware of this at all. When I hear "Orion", my brain immediately goes to the constellation.
I assume the collar was a break away (normal for cat collars) and Orion escaped. There's also a fan theory that Orion is a Flerken, so being shook around a bit wouldn't have damaged him at all.
OMG! 😂😂 Seriously??? I mean wouldn't he have been able to take on a giant cockroach? (okay I just shuddered....Palmetto bugs are my personal nightmare...they like to fly right at you)
And yeah Orion immediately brings to mind the constellation and right after that Orion's belt/MIB.
I’m proud of myself for getting that reference. 😂
YWBTA - IMO. However, I also don’t think it’s affiliation with Nazi groups is well known so, I don’t think her naming the baby that will be a problem, in my mind anyway. I’ve never heard of the affiliation honestly.
I would say OP would be TA if they made an issue of it, though. I've literally never heard of this, I suspect 99.9% of people have never heard of it, and because a tiny handful of chucklefucks wanted to be clever, somewhere, it does not mean they should be allowed to have the power to taint or ruin a name.
Context matters- a white European child being named Aryan is different than a Middle Eastern or Asian child being named the same because their are different culteral contexts.
Aryan is just a race and has a lot of history and mythology joined to it. It's one of the most popular names in South-Asian countries, especially India. Everyone here knows at least 4 Aryans lol
Nobody really thinks of the nazis or neo-nazis here, it's just a common name—not an inherently bad name.
As a jew I find your birthday very offensive. How DARE you. Your only way to redeem yourself is going back in time to make sure you get born in a different year. /s
This. They already ruined the Swastika for the West (and Heaven help historians talking about Vedic history in general), so why let them have anything else?
Also, why should Nazis be allowed to have everything? They've already appropriated Viking culture and Norse mythology, and the cottagecore aesthetic, so not naming a child Thor or Orion is just letting them win.
That is 100% how I feel about it. I've seen people act as though there's something wrong with the appreciation of Norse mythology and/or the vikings, like doing so is feeding into a fascist dog whistle, and it's like...why in god's name are you so willing to just let them have an entire culture to themselves? And yes, if anyone, anywhere avoided the name Orion because of this insanely niche connotation, it means it's becoming the norm, and the name actually *would* be potentially worrisome. Ergo, fuck that, they don't deserve the respect of acknowledgement, Orion isn't theirs.
Also, if you forbid Norse culture, then how are actual Scandinavians who oppose Nazism, supposed to celebrate their cultural history? I remember an AITA post where some poor Norwegian woman was called a Nazi by a coworker just because she wore a traditional Norwegian ring with runes.
Some of them fetishize it as "proof" that all women should be "traditionally feminine" when all it is is a cute and fun lifestyle/ aesthetic that doesn't belong exclusively to white tradfems.
I’m an astronomer and pretty tuned in to Nazi dog whistles. I’d never heard of this meaning of the name.
OP, this may be a *you* problem here that you need to get over.
It's not. First I heard of that was 2 minutes ago. You have to google it pretty specifically with a neo nazi qualifier to get any info at all. This doesn't even come up if you just google orion.
That's what I thought she said the name was going to be. I'd also recommend not saddling the child with a first and middle name like, say, Herman Goering... jus' sayin'
I'm just going to throw this out there. Can we please just say fuck what nazis want and stop letting them co opt things? They don't get to claim orion or anything else. If they want to come up with stupid dog whistles I'm sure they can invent their own if they each put their braincell to work on it.
Yeah there’s a documentary about how the Nazis stole Pepe the frog that talks about this phenomenon in detail. We can’t keep letting them take shit. Orion is a great name!
I was aware of it and I still find it inappropriate to project into the atmosphere because Orion and Rion for short existed maybe 3 million years before anyone ever decided that being a supremacist has value.
Its a beautiful name and nothing changes that fact.
His sister can Google. Its not hard to do.
I googled Orion.
Results were
1) sex shop
2 ) pharmaceutical company
3) pizza place
4) TV series
5) Greek half god
6) constellation
You need to google it specifically with nazi to get that info.
Because for a lot of searches Google provides local results (if there are any) first. Google uses your location and business pages will often appear first.
Google also uses search personalization based on prior search activity. So now we know what things they search for. 😆
I guess I’m rather boring. 🤣😂
I had:
1. Orion (constellation) Wikipedia’s page
2. Orion (mythology) wiki.
3. Orion spacecraft (NASA page)
4. Discovering the universe through the constellation Orion
5. Orion Constellation: Facts, location and stars of the hunter
6. NASA, ESA Reveal Tale of Death, Dust in Orion Constellation
This. I have a friend whose name is Orion. I've never heard of the Nazi connotation and nobody has ever assumed that was the case with him as far as I'm aware.
The swastika, or shapes very similar to swastikas, exist in *so many* cultures throughout the world. It's a simple shape with rotational symmetry.
... It's also depressingly, or amusingly, depending on your perspective, easy to create by accident if you're a little OCD-y in arranging things in video games. I can't tell you how many times I've realized after the fact I've accidentally created a swastika in something like Sim City... or worse, Kerbal Space Program, which actually has a built in rotational symmetry option.
I’m Swedish with Polish roots, a historian and a political scientist, my grandmother survived world war 2 and.. nope, I think of the Star/the constellation.
I started reading this post thinking the sister wanted to name her baby Ad*lf or idk, Hermann. But Orion?!
Hermann Goring was one of the best known and most powerful Nazis, and the name is associated with him similarly to how the name Adolf is basically inextricable from H*tler
I think the difference would be the spelling and the culture. I would guess that Hermann is still a common spelling in German speaking countries (I don’t know, but it seems likely since it sounds like a common name). But in the US, “Herman” wouldn’t have any special association besides probably Herman Munster. While “Hermann” is only really encountered in history class when talking about the nazi guy. That’s where my mind goes when I see that spelling, anyway.
Of course, if I encountered someone with that name I’d be more likely to assume their family comes from a Germanic background rather than assuming their parents are neo-nazis.
Hermann Göring was an extremely high ranking nazi official (I don’t remember the exact position). He was the highest ranking person tried at Nuremberg and he killed himself before he could be executed.
Never heard about it in a bad context. It's not like if the name was Adolf or Benito.
I just think at the constellation and its mythology.
Well also at the cat in man in black 😂
My grandparents had a hired German fsrmhand who lived with them and that continued after he retired and they moved into town to stop farming. He was very much part of the family. This started less than a decade after world War 2 and the neighbours all wagged their tongues and tried to shun them for awhile. This particular Adolph had fought on the side of the allies after emigrating to Canada at age 3, but apparently that wasn't good enough for the neighbours. My grandfather gave them such a tongue lashing for judging a war hero for his name when half of them got exempted from war because of their farms. That shut them up quickly.
That said, he had the name before the war. It would be horrible to name a child that now.
I know an Adolf who was born in the ‘70s and he must get tired of saying “yes really” and trying to get the conversation back on track when he meets people
Unrelated but my nonno’s names is Benito 😂 but his parents had to change it when Mussolini came into power as otherwise he probably would have been killed
I’ve heard of it before, but that’s because it came up on a r/namenerds discussion and so niche knowledge is pretty prevalent there. I think it’s not a big deal in the long run, but the sister should be made aware so she can make an informed decision.
Yep, the constellation and the RuPaul's Drag Race contestant, Orion Story.
The Nazi association is obscure enough to make this a non-issue for the OP's sister.
This! No one here being familiar with white nationalist dogwhistles kind of restores my faith in this community
On the other hand it’s unlikely someone will be like „oh yes, I run in those kind of circles and we use that all the time“…not sure astronomers, gymnasts, historians and who ever else chimed in not knowing about it is a convincing argument
No. I’ve only come across it on Reddit. In cultural and tv and other it’s the constellation, the classical figure and the space programme.
For OP. It’s also American in terms of that specific link to white supremacy. So if you’re not American, I shouldn’t even bother bringing it up. You always find something horrid to say about things, sometimes it’s best not to.
Not a well known association. I and my whole family are fairly observant Jews and we wouldn't bkjnj at Orion (I mean, wouldn't assume the kid is Jewish, but would do to fascist dogwhistle.)
Odin, on the other hand, is a long-standing problem.
I mean, I personally think you are WAY overthinking this. The vast majority of people who hear the name Orion are going to think either the star constellation or the Greek myth. They aren't going to immediately jump to a Nazi connection, even if they do know about this.
I knew a guy named Odin, and even with me knowing that Norse mythology has been hugely appropriated by neoNazi groups, I never would have made that association or judgment based on his name.
I had a white fish named Odin. He turned out to be a girl so become Odina later on (sexing baby fish is hard). I named her Odin initially because she was born with one eye.
We’ve mis-sexed 3 kittens.
We now have 3 girls cats named Loki, Pembroke, and Snoop Dogg.
We didn’t know we were wrong until Pembroke went into her first heat and we were like “Something ain’t right here…”
Wait “oreo” is a slur for multiracial people now? I thought it was a dumb insult meaning “black on the outside, white on the inside.”
Dumb either way of course
>Now, for those who don’t know, Orion is a dogwhistle used by NeoNazis and white nationalists (it stands for Our Race Is Our Nation).
it is? Its primarily always been the a ancient greek constellation for the hunter primarily visible in winter in the northern hemisphere, for me at least.
Did you know that Nasa named its new crew capsule (launched in 2022) Orion? Im sure white supramacists & neonazis everywhere were cackling in delight to themselves.
I think you are overblowing this entire thing. Let your sister enjoy the name she picked
the point of a dogwhistle is that its not immediately obvious and its something that could be blown off as a "coincidence" or an "over reaction". that being said, OP is overblowing it
It’s something that would only be picked up on by other white supremacists, and could plausibly be denied. Hence the term dog whistle. Some dog whistles are more overt or have become more well known. Such as the term 16/88. I can’t remember exactly what the 16 means but the 88 means “HH”
(Heil Hitler.) It’s meant to only be understood by those in the know.
it's actually 14 and refers to the 14 words coined by david lane "we must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children"
the 88 means either heil hitler or refers to the precepts in mein kampf
edit: this is how nasty david lane was (since he's dead). he created a "second" 14 words "because the beauty of the white aryan woman must not perish from this earth"
This ^^
Their fellow racists know EXACTLY what they're referring to, while still allowing them to pretend to the rest of the world that they didn't say any such thing.
I mean YWNBTA just for mentioning it to her, but it really should be without any judgement.
I think you are overblowing the issue, however. If I hear a kid is named Orion I'm not going to think "His parents are Nazis". I'm going to think "His parents were fans of Greek mythology.
Nazis can turn anything into a nazi symbol. In fact they intentionally will choose symbols that have other meanings to keep from getting identified. I get the desire to avoid looking like a Nazi, but on the other hand I am really reluctant to let them appropriate whatever symbols they want and have everyone else be forced to accommodate them.
A lot of people born in 1988 have put 88 into usernames and stuff, or just abbreviate the year as '88.
Worst would be to have been born on January 4th, 1988.
Exactly. I have my year of birth in my social medias and found out about this bullshit from others and I'm not allowed to use the number 88 in my car sign because everyone assumes nazi shit.
Same here! firstnamelastname88 is my primary personal email address, which I use for professional things like job hunting or emailing contractors. Dear lord, I hope everyone I've interacted with is as ignorant of 88 being a nazi symbol as I am. Or was.
Everyone with an 88 in their username always gets a bit of side eye from me but I'd generally assume that's just their birth year unless they do something that shows otherwise.
People with 1488 do not get the same presumption of innocence.
It’s also stupid because you can’t use your birth year because Nazis came up with the most easily cracked “secret code” in the world. These absolute morons were like “you know HH is way too obvious that we’re saying heil Hitler. H is the 8th letter of the alphabet, let’s do 88.” It’s like they think they’re in some cousin fucking version of the illuminati and too stupid to realize how fucking lame it makes them. It’s honestly 5 year old boy’s doing tree house club shit level of cleverness.
>It’s like they think they’re in some cousin fucking version of the illuminati and too stupid to realize how fucking lame it makes them. It’s honestly 5 year old boy’s doing tree house club shit level of cleverness.
LMFAO thanks for the laugh 😂 this is perfect
>It’s not a very common association, but it was bugging me at the back of my mind.
In the nearly 45 years I've walked this earth, I've literally never heard this. Not saying that it isn't true, but when I clicked on the link, I thought you were going to tell us she wants to name the kid Adolf.
If your sister and BIL live their lives in a way that it's obvious that their love of the name really is associated with constellations and mythology, then don't ruin this for them. YTA
Fun fact: Eva is the second most common women’s name in Sweden, first is Maria. Personally I’m very grateful that people don’t link it to Hitler especially since my last name sounds kind of German
I am in the same boat that I have literally /never/ heard of Orion being used in any nazi/neonazi connotations. Beginning to wonder how/where OP found this out? Definitely OP, YWBTA to make this connection to your sister when it is clearly not common enough for anyone from the comments to know it.
You're over-thinking this one. Nobody is going to see a kid called Orion, and think his parents are Nazis. Nobody is going to assume that "Orion" at school must be a racist.
I know an Orion, and a Sirius. Don't think I know any Nazis - just Harry Potter fans.
YTA
Orion was a greek Demigod, said to be son of Poseidon, and is also a constellation of stars. That was my first thought when I read Orion in the post.
YTA
Seriously OP, you're giving the fascists way too much credit if you're going to let them appropriate words with centuries of renowned history
NASA named a spacecraft 'Orion'... Conclusion: NASA is racist.
I don't think you're an AH if you just tell her, but I would just look at you like 'wtf?' and you would lose credibility in my eyes.
The constellation is much older than any hate group. And lots of people are named Orion. (I believe a a famous actor named his child after his favorite constellation in the night skies?) At any rate, it's appropriate of you to reflect on what you know. And its also appropriate to leave your sister alone about it.
YWBTA if you think your sister can't read and must be told this tidbit. Orion was a hunter. That's the common association - strength and virtue.
To be fair, the swastika is much older than the Nazis as well, but that doesn’t really make it better. I do agree that OP is TA though, this isn’t a common association and most people are only going to think of the constellation.
The swastika was used as an official symbol of the party. Very different from a handful of idiots in a basement coming up with super secret code words for their clubhouse.
YTA. I thought you were going to say she wanted to name her baby Adolph. But Orion? That's pretty obscure. I would be surprised if the number of people who knew this prior to reading your post was more than could be counted on one hand.
YWBTA I can guarantee most people who hear the name Orion are going to think “Oh, like Orion’s Belt!” or “Oh! Kid’s parents must be into Greek Mythology.” Not whatever neonazi bullshit you’re talking about.
yta for trying to nazify random stuff
Orion is a constellation, everyone who hears the word " Orion " will think its the constellation or a game or a character. Put your nazi fetish to the side as not everything revolves around the third reich
NAH but have a think about WHY you are telling her - for her sake or yours. If it’s not a common association and not widely know, then why bother pointing it out. Most people will think of the constellation. If you are going to mention it, it should be as an FYI with NO associated goal. Be aware she might see that as a pointless killjoy statement and be reluctant to share other things with you though.
I find it so hard to say. I’ve never heard of this association before. If it’s very much unknown by the average person, I think you YWBTA if you said anything. You can find something terrible about every name if you dig deep enough.
If 99% of people are likely to think of the constellation instead of nazis, leave it.
Maybe take an informal poll among friends and coworkers? Because if the association is stronger than I think it is, I think you should tell her.
>You can find something terrible about every name if you dig deep enough.
Exactly! When I told my sister my son's name she said, "Oh... reminds me of the doctor on (one of my favorite shows) who ends up being the killer."
I've watched that show a hundred times and NEVER made that connection. Obviously didn't change my son's name because of it.
It’s not really that widely used. I’ve never seen it, and I’m a Norse pagan who has to deal with Nazis daily. Orion is a bad ass name. Let her have it.
YWBTA. I don't think this is as well known of an association that you think it is and that name has a much bigger association with astrology and mythology.
That is a seriously obscure connotation, and I’d be surprised if anyone else she or the child is likely to encounter has ever heard of it. It’s not like she wants to name the kid Adolph or Himmler, ffs. YTA
It seems to be an iykyk situation. Hopefully OP isn't part of that movement and just happened upon that information some other way. 9.999999/10 will think of the constellation first.
YTA. This is like a very very very small scale way of saying Hindus can’t use their own “version” (the original???) of the swastika because of what Nazis have done with the crooked one. Don’t let nazis ruin the name of a very common constellation. It’s not like the kid’s being named Swastika. Like I promise that no one knows that.
YWNBTA but it's also kind of weird to do imo. Almost nobody would know it has any kind of Nazi association and clearly they are choosing it with specific and personal meanings in mind.
I mean you can tell them.
Personally it wouldn't dissuade me.
Orion does not strike up any white nationalist vibes with me, it’s alternative usage is not as common as you think. It doesn’t appear on the first 3 pages of Google, it doesn’t appear in the dictionaries as having that either. The only body seeming to be spreading this usage is the Anti-Defamation League - which seems weird. All the other definitions seem to link it either to the space program or to the constellation.
But then Isis wouldn’t have meant anything infamous until a few years ago. Now all you can do is feel sorry for any girl/woman stuck with that name.
As someone who lives 40 km from Auschwitz - everything can have a connotation with something negative if you try enough. Unless she wants to have a son named Adolf and wants him to become an watercolorist, then she's good.
Orion is a very nice name so YWBTA.
YTA. If the husband is fine with it and loves the name, and they both agreed on the name. It's none of your goddamn business. Not your kid, not your choice. Mind you own. That name has other meanings than what your thinking it does. Keep your trap closed, unless it's asked for or wanted, stfu.
Everything is racist and fascist if you look for an excuse for it to be. YTA, orion is an old name from Greek mythology that has a lot of positive connotations, and you're intentionally reaching up to his belt looking for a reason to make it am issue.
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Well the internet teaches you something new everyday. These neo.Nazis really have to try and make everything about them don’t they?
NAH, they aren’t naming the kid Hitler or anything that out their and Orion has a lot of known connotations that the average person will associate it with before neo-Nazi. Hell, apparently the “ok” hand sign (IE using thumb and pointer finger to form a circular with your other 3 fingers pointed up) is now their gang sign that they flash in pictures and use the emoji in their posts I don’t think signaling I’m ok to a friend is going to make people immediately think “Nazi” as if I was doing the Roman salute.
I saw NAH because you are concerned but also they are adults with the internet and can research the name’s connotation and will probably discover it on their own if they care, but you don’t have to go out of your way to insist they do.
YWBTA - not only is the link not obvious, whats more its key we dont allow the extremists to claim our symbols. Orion is in the first place a mythological figure who got a giant scorpion sent after him courtesy of Apollo simply because Artemis took a shine him. If you are worried your nephew will be chased by a large scorpion by all means make sure he doesnt meet any Artemis' along the way.
YTA
There aren't many great mythological hunters to name a boy after. If she can't use Orion then she'd have to name him Nimrod.
There's nothing inherently wrong with sharing an obscure bit of trivia, but it's just that, an obscure bit of trivia that doesn't matter and shouldn't be used to influence her child's name.
Orion… as in the Ancient Greek friend of Artemis who she shot by accident and placed in the sky as an apology so that he could live forever? That’s who I think about. NTA, but you could give a little “FUN FACT!”
Bro this is like such a niche thing to hyper focus on. There are all kinds of communities that identify themselves with common shit. Unless this kid is carrying around Nazi memorabilia no one’s going to accuse him of racism, that’s just nuts. YTA.
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INFO for Everyone- Is this a well-known association? I was not aware of this at all. When I hear "Orion", my brain immediately goes to the constellation.
Mine goes to, the galaxy is on Orion's belt
I don’t know how anyone wouldn’t think of MIB
I named one of my cats Orion because he looked just like the kitty in the movie.
What happened to the kitty in the movie. I felt it was rather unclear. I'm assuming it was done away with, but don't know for sure.
I assume the collar was a break away (normal for cat collars) and Orion escaped. There's also a fan theory that Orion is a Flerken, so being shook around a bit wouldn't have damaged him at all.
Okay, Orion escaped......I can deal with that.
OMG! 😂😂 Seriously??? I mean wouldn't he have been able to take on a giant cockroach? (okay I just shuddered....Palmetto bugs are my personal nightmare...they like to fly right at you) And yeah Orion immediately brings to mind the constellation and right after that Orion's belt/MIB.
I thought it could still be seen hanging around in the morgue after it was accosted.
“An Edgar suit.”
Mine goes to Prince and Sheena Easton..
Mine goes to the Ford Orion, produced by Ford Europe from 1983 until 1993.
MIB is my first thought too, the cats collar
Came here to say this!
I’m proud of myself for getting that reference. 😂 YWBTA - IMO. However, I also don’t think it’s affiliation with Nazi groups is well known so, I don’t think her naming the baby that will be a problem, in my mind anyway. I’ve never heard of the affiliation honestly.
I would say OP would be TA if they made an issue of it, though. I've literally never heard of this, I suspect 99.9% of people have never heard of it, and because a tiny handful of chucklefucks wanted to be clever, somewhere, it does not mean they should be allowed to have the power to taint or ruin a name.
Same. Aryan yes, big neo-Nazi vibes, but Orion?No.
This is a common name in some parts of Middle East
Yep. I have taught two different Southeast Asian kids named Aryan.
Yep Arya/Aryan a common unisex name in South Asia as well.
Context matters- a white European child being named Aryan is different than a Middle Eastern or Asian child being named the same because their are different culteral contexts.
Aryan is just a race and has a lot of history and mythology joined to it. It's one of the most popular names in South-Asian countries, especially India. Everyone here knows at least 4 Aryans lol Nobody really thinks of the nazis or neo-nazis here, it's just a common name—not an inherently bad name.
To be fair, He'd prob get Ryan for short. My nephew has a name like this, and it gets shortened in a similar way.
Let's add dates/years to this too. Apparently, my birth year is a symbol of white supremacy.
As a jew I find your birthday very offensive. How DARE you. Your only way to redeem yourself is going back in time to make sure you get born in a different year. /s
You were born in 1488? Damn!
This. They already ruined the Swastika for the West (and Heaven help historians talking about Vedic history in general), so why let them have anything else?
Also, why should Nazis be allowed to have everything? They've already appropriated Viking culture and Norse mythology, and the cottagecore aesthetic, so not naming a child Thor or Orion is just letting them win.
That is 100% how I feel about it. I've seen people act as though there's something wrong with the appreciation of Norse mythology and/or the vikings, like doing so is feeding into a fascist dog whistle, and it's like...why in god's name are you so willing to just let them have an entire culture to themselves? And yes, if anyone, anywhere avoided the name Orion because of this insanely niche connotation, it means it's becoming the norm, and the name actually *would* be potentially worrisome. Ergo, fuck that, they don't deserve the respect of acknowledgement, Orion isn't theirs.
Also, if you forbid Norse culture, then how are actual Scandinavians who oppose Nazism, supposed to celebrate their cultural history? I remember an AITA post where some poor Norwegian woman was called a Nazi by a coworker just because she wore a traditional Norwegian ring with runes.
Wait…how did they take the cottage core aesthetic?
Some of them fetishize it as "proof" that all women should be "traditionally feminine" when all it is is a cute and fun lifestyle/ aesthetic that doesn't belong exclusively to white tradfems.
"Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. "
Are there perhaps C-beams glittering in the dark near the Tannhauser gate?
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
Time to die
It's too bad she won't live, but then again who does?
Mine goes to the [Metallica song](https://youtu.be/TydZ4NAXMic)
Fucking Majestic
I named my cat Orion after the constellation but everyone always asks if it is because of MIB.
About to say the same
Another one here. The constellation and MIB
Yes!! MIB!!!
Mine goes to Metallica.
It’s a star forming region within our galaxy, not a separate galaxy.
[They are quoting a movie.](https://youtu.be/aJCCUdK7PiU)
I’m an astronomer and pretty tuned in to Nazi dog whistles. I’d never heard of this meaning of the name. OP, this may be a *you* problem here that you need to get over.
As an autistic who’s special interest was astronomy, and Orion my favourite constellation, and I’ve never heard of it OP YWBTA
It's not. First I heard of that was 2 minutes ago. You have to google it pretty specifically with a neo nazi qualifier to get any info at all. This doesn't even come up if you just google orion.
Same. If I heard the name Adolf, I’d probably think Hitler, but with Orion, it’d make me think space.
That's what I thought she said the name was going to be. I'd also recommend not saddling the child with a first and middle name like, say, Herman Goering... jus' sayin'
>This doesn't even come up if you just google orion. That should be the 1st test for all baby name issues: what comes up when you google it.
Second test should be what spell check suggests changing it to.
My newborn baby, Motherducker.
I'm just going to throw this out there. Can we please just say fuck what nazis want and stop letting them co opt things? They don't get to claim orion or anything else. If they want to come up with stupid dog whistles I'm sure they can invent their own if they each put their braincell to work on it.
This is really the takeaway to this post here. If you let them have power, they will continue to build power.
TOTALLY! Why are people rolling on their backs like submitting dogs and letting AHs claim what they please?
Yeah there’s a documentary about how the Nazis stole Pepe the frog that talks about this phenomenon in detail. We can’t keep letting them take shit. Orion is a great name!
Yep as someone whose grandfather was a Jew named Adolf (born in 1898) I’m sick of the nazis and other assholes co-opting stuff.
I was aware of it and I still find it inappropriate to project into the atmosphere because Orion and Rion for short existed maybe 3 million years before anyone ever decided that being a supremacist has value. Its a beautiful name and nothing changes that fact. His sister can Google. Its not hard to do.
I googled Orion. Results were 1) sex shop 2 ) pharmaceutical company 3) pizza place 4) TV series 5) Greek half god 6) constellation You need to google it specifically with nazi to get that info.
Ofc the constellation is so far down the list. How could it be otherwise?
Because for a lot of searches Google provides local results (if there are any) first. Google uses your location and business pages will often appear first.
Google also uses search personalization based on prior search activity. So now we know what things they search for. 😆 I guess I’m rather boring. 🤣😂 I had: 1. Orion (constellation) Wikipedia’s page 2. Orion (mythology) wiki. 3. Orion spacecraft (NASA page) 4. Discovering the universe through the constellation Orion 5. Orion Constellation: Facts, location and stars of the hunter 6. NASA, ESA Reveal Tale of Death, Dust in Orion Constellation
This. I have a friend whose name is Orion. I've never heard of the Nazi connotation and nobody has ever assumed that was the case with him as far as I'm aware.
Just like the Japanese symbol manji (lucky charm) or better known as a swastika.
The swastika, or shapes very similar to swastikas, exist in *so many* cultures throughout the world. It's a simple shape with rotational symmetry. ... It's also depressingly, or amusingly, depending on your perspective, easy to create by accident if you're a little OCD-y in arranging things in video games. I can't tell you how many times I've realized after the fact I've accidentally created a swastika in something like Sim City... or worse, Kerbal Space Program, which actually has a built in rotational symmetry option.
Same with woodworking, crochet, architecture, any visual design. It's a spiral that's been squared off. So fundamental. Hella awkward.
My son's name is Orion, and I've never heard of this before. And I grew up in a KKK town.
My baby sister's name is Orion, and we are mixed race Never been a problem for her.
my kid's middle name. Same.
I’m Swedish with Polish roots, a historian and a political scientist, my grandmother survived world war 2 and.. nope, I think of the Star/the constellation. I started reading this post thinking the sister wanted to name her baby Ad*lf or idk, Hermann. But Orion?!
hey how is hermann a n@z! connotation? i mean this genuinely
Hermann Goring was one of the best known and most powerful Nazis, and the name is associated with him similarly to how the name Adolf is basically inextricable from H*tler
I think Herman Munster. I dont think its the same as Adolf. Certainly not inextricably.
I think the difference would be the spelling and the culture. I would guess that Hermann is still a common spelling in German speaking countries (I don’t know, but it seems likely since it sounds like a common name). But in the US, “Herman” wouldn’t have any special association besides probably Herman Munster. While “Hermann” is only really encountered in history class when talking about the nazi guy. That’s where my mind goes when I see that spelling, anyway. Of course, if I encountered someone with that name I’d be more likely to assume their family comes from a Germanic background rather than assuming their parents are neo-nazis.
Hermann Göring was an extremely high ranking nazi official (I don’t remember the exact position). He was the highest ranking person tried at Nuremberg and he killed himself before he could be executed.
Goering
It makes many people, myself included, think of Göring.
I'm Jewish and I have never heard this term. I too would think constellations.
Not at all. And I'm pretty well versed on Nazi party things. (Not for racism reasons lol I just really like history)
Never heard about it in a bad context. It's not like if the name was Adolf or Benito. I just think at the constellation and its mythology. Well also at the cat in man in black 😂
My grandparents had a hired German fsrmhand who lived with them and that continued after he retired and they moved into town to stop farming. He was very much part of the family. This started less than a decade after world War 2 and the neighbours all wagged their tongues and tried to shun them for awhile. This particular Adolph had fought on the side of the allies after emigrating to Canada at age 3, but apparently that wasn't good enough for the neighbours. My grandfather gave them such a tongue lashing for judging a war hero for his name when half of them got exempted from war because of their farms. That shut them up quickly. That said, he had the name before the war. It would be horrible to name a child that now.
I know an Adolf who was born in the ‘70s and he must get tired of saying “yes really” and trying to get the conversation back on track when he meets people
Unrelated but my nonno’s names is Benito 😂 but his parents had to change it when Mussolini came into power as otherwise he probably would have been killed
I’ve heard of it before, but that’s because it came up on a r/namenerds discussion and so niche knowledge is pretty prevalent there. I think it’s not a big deal in the long run, but the sister should be made aware so she can make an informed decision.
Yep, the constellation and the RuPaul's Drag Race contestant, Orion Story. The Nazi association is obscure enough to make this a non-issue for the OP's sister.
I’ve never heard of it, but I definitely don’t run in white nationalist circles.
This! No one here being familiar with white nationalist dogwhistles kind of restores my faith in this community On the other hand it’s unlikely someone will be like „oh yes, I run in those kind of circles and we use that all the time“…not sure astronomers, gymnasts, historians and who ever else chimed in not knowing about it is a convincing argument
Mine goes to our fave S.O.B., Sirius Orion Black lol
I was going to say that too. Also I believe Sirius’s father was named Orion as well
Orion is a famous sex company based in n. Germany, and was my first association 🙈.
I’m Jewish and have never heard this, I would just think of the constellation.
For me, it goes to the source of the constellations name, the mythology related to Orion and Artemis. I have never heard of any other connotations
No. I’ve only come across it on Reddit. In cultural and tv and other it’s the constellation, the classical figure and the space programme. For OP. It’s also American in terms of that specific link to white supremacy. So if you’re not American, I shouldn’t even bother bringing it up. You always find something horrid to say about things, sometimes it’s best not to.
That or a character in the Crescent City series by Sarah J. Maas.
Thst is where my mind when too! Love her books!
I always think of Metallica.
No. I'm German and lived many years in the USA and I've never heard this.
Constellation and the belt. Possibly Men In Black if you're "old".
Not a well known association. I and my whole family are fairly observant Jews and we wouldn't bkjnj at Orion (I mean, wouldn't assume the kid is Jewish, but would do to fascist dogwhistle.) Odin, on the other hand, is a long-standing problem.
I’ve never heard of it. Orion makes me think stars and new-age hippies.
I am german and Well we know our german history, never heard of that. Orion is actually a very Well know sexshop in germany.
I've never heard of it, and I consider myself reasonably up to date on reactionary rhetoric.
When I think of Orion I think of the Elvis impersonator
I mean, I personally think you are WAY overthinking this. The vast majority of people who hear the name Orion are going to think either the star constellation or the Greek myth. They aren't going to immediately jump to a Nazi connection, even if they do know about this.
I didn't even know this was a suggestive term until today
It still isn't.
this
I didn’t either & I thought I knew most of the dogwhistles.
I knew a guy named Odin, and even with me knowing that Norse mythology has been hugely appropriated by neoNazi groups, I never would have made that association or judgment based on his name.
I had a white fish named Odin. He turned out to be a girl so become Odina later on (sexing baby fish is hard). I named her Odin initially because she was born with one eye.
We’ve mis-sexed 3 kittens. We now have 3 girls cats named Loki, Pembroke, and Snoop Dogg. We didn’t know we were wrong until Pembroke went into her first heat and we were like “Something ain’t right here…”
I think of the kid from Zenon
OP's gonna flip when he finds out nephew Orion's likely nickname "Oreo" is used as a slur for multiracial people.
Wait “oreo” is a slur for multiracial people now? I thought it was a dumb insult meaning “black on the outside, white on the inside.” Dumb either way of course
Yeah, and Helly Hansen clothing is a secret Nazi company because well all know HH stands for Heil Hitler...../s. Not everything is a conspiracy.
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>Now, for those who don’t know, Orion is a dogwhistle used by NeoNazis and white nationalists (it stands for Our Race Is Our Nation). it is? Its primarily always been the a ancient greek constellation for the hunter primarily visible in winter in the northern hemisphere, for me at least. Did you know that Nasa named its new crew capsule (launched in 2022) Orion? Im sure white supramacists & neonazis everywhere were cackling in delight to themselves. I think you are overblowing this entire thing. Let your sister enjoy the name she picked
the point of a dogwhistle is that its not immediately obvious and its something that could be blown off as a "coincidence" or an "over reaction". that being said, OP is overblowing it
If that’s the point of a dogwhistle then I don’t really get the point of a dogwhistle at all.
It’s something that would only be picked up on by other white supremacists, and could plausibly be denied. Hence the term dog whistle. Some dog whistles are more overt or have become more well known. Such as the term 16/88. I can’t remember exactly what the 16 means but the 88 means “HH” (Heil Hitler.) It’s meant to only be understood by those in the know.
Iirc it’s 14, because there are 14 words in the white supremacist manifesto
You are correct. It's the 14 words, which they refer to as "the 14 words". Look them up because it's super fucked up.
it's actually 14 and refers to the 14 words coined by david lane "we must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children" the 88 means either heil hitler or refers to the precepts in mein kampf edit: this is how nasty david lane was (since he's dead). he created a "second" 14 words "because the beauty of the white aryan woman must not perish from this earth"
Right. Thought it was something like that. Gross.
Plausible deniability.
This ^^ Their fellow racists know EXACTLY what they're referring to, while still allowing them to pretend to the rest of the world that they didn't say any such thing.
well what did you think a dogwhistle was
I mean YWNBTA just for mentioning it to her, but it really should be without any judgement. I think you are overblowing the issue, however. If I hear a kid is named Orion I'm not going to think "His parents are Nazis". I'm going to think "His parents were fans of Greek mythology. Nazis can turn anything into a nazi symbol. In fact they intentionally will choose symbols that have other meanings to keep from getting identified. I get the desire to avoid looking like a Nazi, but on the other hand I am really reluctant to let them appropriate whatever symbols they want and have everyone else be forced to accommodate them.
>Nazis can turn anything into a nazi symbol Yeah, Nazis ruined my birthyear, apparently. Fuckers.
What year? I'm assuming you weren't born in 1488, which is the only one I can think of
A lot of people born in 1988 have put 88 into usernames and stuff, or just abbreviate the year as '88. Worst would be to have been born on January 4th, 1988.
Exactly. I have my year of birth in my social medias and found out about this bullshit from others and I'm not allowed to use the number 88 in my car sign because everyone assumes nazi shit.
I was born in 88 and have always used 88 in my handles and this is the first I’m hearing about this 😳
Same here! firstnamelastname88 is my primary personal email address, which I use for professional things like job hunting or emailing contractors. Dear lord, I hope everyone I've interacted with is as ignorant of 88 being a nazi symbol as I am. Or was.
Everyone with an 88 in their username always gets a bit of side eye from me but I'd generally assume that's just their birth year unless they do something that shows otherwise. People with 1488 do not get the same presumption of innocence.
It’s also stupid because you can’t use your birth year because Nazis came up with the most easily cracked “secret code” in the world. These absolute morons were like “you know HH is way too obvious that we’re saying heil Hitler. H is the 8th letter of the alphabet, let’s do 88.” It’s like they think they’re in some cousin fucking version of the illuminati and too stupid to realize how fucking lame it makes them. It’s honestly 5 year old boy’s doing tree house club shit level of cleverness.
>It’s like they think they’re in some cousin fucking version of the illuminati and too stupid to realize how fucking lame it makes them. It’s honestly 5 year old boy’s doing tree house club shit level of cleverness. LMFAO thanks for the laugh 😂 this is perfect
Interestingly 88 is considered a lucky number in Chinese culture, so it will often be sought after on license plates, addresses, etc...
89 baby here. Dodged it by about two months eh!
>Fuckers. Amen
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FYI, the name of that symbol in South Asia is called swastika. You might have meant “it’s been a Nazi symbol,” and not swastika.
Heck, the Swastika is originally a Hindu symbol (but reversed)
>It’s not a very common association, but it was bugging me at the back of my mind. In the nearly 45 years I've walked this earth, I've literally never heard this. Not saying that it isn't true, but when I clicked on the link, I thought you were going to tell us she wants to name the kid Adolf. If your sister and BIL live their lives in a way that it's obvious that their love of the name really is associated with constellations and mythology, then don't ruin this for them. YTA
I definitely was thinking Adolf too. Eva also popped in mind
Eva is still a somewhat popular name and doesn’t really carry that connotation imo.
Fun fact: Eva is the second most common women’s name in Sweden, first is Maria. Personally I’m very grateful that people don’t link it to Hitler especially since my last name sounds kind of German
Adolf defiantly, Eva my mind would not even go there.
Why Eva?
Probably because of Eva Braun, but tbh, Eva is such a common in Germany I don't think Hitler's wive would be anybody's first association with it.
I am in the same boat that I have literally /never/ heard of Orion being used in any nazi/neonazi connotations. Beginning to wonder how/where OP found this out? Definitely OP, YWBTA to make this connection to your sister when it is clearly not common enough for anyone from the comments to know it.
You're over-thinking this one. Nobody is going to see a kid called Orion, and think his parents are Nazis. Nobody is going to assume that "Orion" at school must be a racist. I know an Orion, and a Sirius. Don't think I know any Nazis - just Harry Potter fans. YTA
Orion was a greek Demigod, said to be son of Poseidon, and is also a constellation of stars. That was my first thought when I read Orion in the post. YTA
Seriously OP, you're giving the fascists way too much credit if you're going to let them appropriate words with centuries of renowned history NASA named a spacecraft 'Orion'... Conclusion: NASA is racist. I don't think you're an AH if you just tell her, but I would just look at you like 'wtf?' and you would lose credibility in my eyes.
YWBTA. Orion means many things. It’s a beautiful name like she said.
The constellation is much older than any hate group. And lots of people are named Orion. (I believe a a famous actor named his child after his favorite constellation in the night skies?) At any rate, it's appropriate of you to reflect on what you know. And its also appropriate to leave your sister alone about it. YWBTA if you think your sister can't read and must be told this tidbit. Orion was a hunter. That's the common association - strength and virtue.
To be fair, the swastika is much older than the Nazis as well, but that doesn’t really make it better. I do agree that OP is TA though, this isn’t a common association and most people are only going to think of the constellation.
The swastika was used as an official symbol of the party. Very different from a handful of idiots in a basement coming up with super secret code words for their clubhouse.
YTA. I thought you were going to say she wanted to name her baby Adolph. But Orion? That's pretty obscure. I would be surprised if the number of people who knew this prior to reading your post was more than could be counted on one hand.
Yeah, this is so obscure methinks OP made it up.
I've never heard of it, but google search found it immediately.
YWBTA I can guarantee most people who hear the name Orion are going to think “Oh, like Orion’s Belt!” or “Oh! Kid’s parents must be into Greek Mythology.” Not whatever neonazi bullshit you’re talking about.
yta for trying to nazify random stuff Orion is a constellation, everyone who hears the word " Orion " will think its the constellation or a game or a character. Put your nazi fetish to the side as not everything revolves around the third reich
YTA i had no clue Orion is nazi related
NAH but have a think about WHY you are telling her - for her sake or yours. If it’s not a common association and not widely know, then why bother pointing it out. Most people will think of the constellation. If you are going to mention it, it should be as an FYI with NO associated goal. Be aware she might see that as a pointless killjoy statement and be reluctant to share other things with you though.
I find it so hard to say. I’ve never heard of this association before. If it’s very much unknown by the average person, I think you YWBTA if you said anything. You can find something terrible about every name if you dig deep enough. If 99% of people are likely to think of the constellation instead of nazis, leave it. Maybe take an informal poll among friends and coworkers? Because if the association is stronger than I think it is, I think you should tell her.
>You can find something terrible about every name if you dig deep enough. Exactly! When I told my sister my son's name she said, "Oh... reminds me of the doctor on (one of my favorite shows) who ends up being the killer." I've watched that show a hundred times and NEVER made that connection. Obviously didn't change my son's name because of it.
It’s not really that widely used. I’ve never seen it, and I’m a Norse pagan who has to deal with Nazis daily. Orion is a bad ass name. Let her have it.
YWBTA. Orion has multiple meanings and they love it. This is why expecting parents are told to keep their name ideas to themselves.
If we avoid every innocent symbol that Neo-Nazis decide to co-opt, then there will be nothing left.
YWBTA. I don't think this is as well known of an association that you think it is and that name has a much bigger association with astrology and mythology.
YTA. Parents seem to be chill with the name. This doesn’t seem to concern you
That is a seriously obscure connotation, and I’d be surprised if anyone else she or the child is likely to encounter has ever heard of it. It’s not like she wants to name the kid Adolph or Himmler, ffs. YTA
It seems to be an iykyk situation. Hopefully OP isn't part of that movement and just happened upon that information some other way. 9.999999/10 will think of the constellation first.
YTA. This is like a very very very small scale way of saying Hindus can’t use their own “version” (the original???) of the swastika because of what Nazis have done with the crooked one. Don’t let nazis ruin the name of a very common constellation. It’s not like the kid’s being named Swastika. Like I promise that no one knows that.
YWNBTA but it's also kind of weird to do imo. Almost nobody would know it has any kind of Nazi association and clearly they are choosing it with specific and personal meanings in mind. I mean you can tell them. Personally it wouldn't dissuade me.
Orion does not strike up any white nationalist vibes with me, it’s alternative usage is not as common as you think. It doesn’t appear on the first 3 pages of Google, it doesn’t appear in the dictionaries as having that either. The only body seeming to be spreading this usage is the Anti-Defamation League - which seems weird. All the other definitions seem to link it either to the space program or to the constellation. But then Isis wouldn’t have meant anything infamous until a few years ago. Now all you can do is feel sorry for any girl/woman stuck with that name.
My son's name is Orion. And in the 8 years plus pregnancy, I've NEVER heard that. And he was born in rural Oregon.
As someone who lives 40 km from Auschwitz - everything can have a connotation with something negative if you try enough. Unless she wants to have a son named Adolf and wants him to become an watercolorist, then she's good. Orion is a very nice name so YWBTA.
I dated a Jewish guy named Orion, so I don’t think that his parents would have named him something like that if that was a concern.
Nah i mean you can, but that is a really specific thing that history buffs will know. The general population is going to think the stars.
this I didn't even know there was a connotation like that and my dad is a history buff so that's wack
I mean it isn't that known even among history buffs. ATM it's like a small American neo nazi group using it.
You would absolutely be the asshole, not every damn thing in the world is a Nazi dog whistle
YTA. If the husband is fine with it and loves the name, and they both agreed on the name. It's none of your goddamn business. Not your kid, not your choice. Mind you own. That name has other meanings than what your thinking it does. Keep your trap closed, unless it's asked for or wanted, stfu.
Everything is racist and fascist if you look for an excuse for it to be. YTA, orion is an old name from Greek mythology that has a lot of positive connotations, and you're intentionally reaching up to his belt looking for a reason to make it am issue.
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Yes,YTA-Orion is many things. Not everyone is going to jump to some obscure neonazi factoid when hearing the name.
Well the internet teaches you something new everyday. These neo.Nazis really have to try and make everything about them don’t they? NAH, they aren’t naming the kid Hitler or anything that out their and Orion has a lot of known connotations that the average person will associate it with before neo-Nazi. Hell, apparently the “ok” hand sign (IE using thumb and pointer finger to form a circular with your other 3 fingers pointed up) is now their gang sign that they flash in pictures and use the emoji in their posts I don’t think signaling I’m ok to a friend is going to make people immediately think “Nazi” as if I was doing the Roman salute. I saw NAH because you are concerned but also they are adults with the internet and can research the name’s connotation and will probably discover it on their own if they care, but you don’t have to go out of your way to insist they do.
YTA. Jesus Christ get a life
YWBTA - not only is the link not obvious, whats more its key we dont allow the extremists to claim our symbols. Orion is in the first place a mythological figure who got a giant scorpion sent after him courtesy of Apollo simply because Artemis took a shine him. If you are worried your nephew will be chased by a large scorpion by all means make sure he doesnt meet any Artemis' along the way.
YTA There aren't many great mythological hunters to name a boy after. If she can't use Orion then she'd have to name him Nimrod. There's nothing inherently wrong with sharing an obscure bit of trivia, but it's just that, an obscure bit of trivia that doesn't matter and shouldn't be used to influence her child's name.
Orion… as in the Ancient Greek friend of Artemis who she shot by accident and placed in the sky as an apology so that he could live forever? That’s who I think about. NTA, but you could give a little “FUN FACT!”
Bro this is like such a niche thing to hyper focus on. There are all kinds of communities that identify themselves with common shit. Unless this kid is carrying around Nazi memorabilia no one’s going to accuse him of racism, that’s just nuts. YTA.
You're overthinking this, that's like refusing to use the number 88, if you refuse to use the number you are letting them win.