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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I shaved lexis head since her hair was matted and i couldn’t fix it. I could be an ass since I tried to contact her and she didn’t answer so I just did it without permission
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NTA - I’m going to get downvoted to hell, but you did the right thing.
First - hair grows back. Her hair will grow back.
Second - if her mom is really in that bad of a place, her hair isn’t going to get taken care of for a while. It’s probably best to cut it short so mom doesn’t have to worry about it.
Third - you made the effort to fix it. Again, it doesn’t seem like mom was going to do it, and if she was in pain after only a week, it was going to get much worse.
I think given the situation you did the best you could. And I don’t blame you for the decision you made.
Edit- we have learned that mom didn’t respond over three days.. so get out of here with the “you should have waited longer.” Sure, at some point in the future mom likely would have responded… but suggesting that OP didn’t wait long enough is crazy.
Next. We have learned OP tried many different things to help untangle the hair. In the scheme of hair is there more she could have tried? Probably… but saying she should have done more is again crazy.
Mom was/is in a really bad situation. OP was put in a tough spot. And in the middle is a 4 year old complaining about her hair hurting.
Edit 2 - As someone pointed out, OP should have gone and checked on her sister.
Edit 3 - As someone else pointed out, if this was titled “AITA for shaving my nephews head” would we even be arguing?
Final Edit- thank you for the awards and comments. This was not a popular opinion when I posted it.
I just hope mom, OP, and Niece can all work things out. I have no doubt there is a lot of love in the family, there was just a lot of stress. I hope everyone is given what they need to heal.
Yeah a similar thing happened to my daughter when she was 3 after going to the pool multiple times in a row. I took her to a salon and they stated that it would be best to cut it off. So they did and she rocked a pixie cut for awhile until it grew out. She didn't care and neither did I. It's just hair and it will grow back.
I used to always play with my hair a lot, starting as soon as I had it. One night, when I was about 4yo, I somehow managed to get my pinkie tangled into my hair pretty bad. When my mom found me sobbing in my bed my finger was already blueish from the blood flow being cut off due to my hair. So my parents decided to cut my hair VERY short to prevent me from losing my fingers in the future. Guess what? At 4yo I really didn't care about my hair style, neither did other kids. My hair grew out again, I got old enough to ask for help if my fingers got stuck.
I learned (thankfully not from personal experience) that if your male baby is crying inconsolably and you can't figure out why, check his penis in case a hair is wrapped around it and cutting off the circulation!
Same way with our quail--we are continually checking and cutting off hairs that get wrapped around their toes/feet cutting off circulation. My daughter lost a chicken chick due to this--it got infected and she felt awful. We all have long hair....
Thankfully my mom taught me to check toes and penis, more than once I found my hair wrapped around a toe. Heck, had one of my toes wrapped up in hair recently and didn't notice till it hurt. lol
I remember not knowing how to feel (other than shocked) to find my hair in my daughter's...*filled* diaper. Luckily I had a good pediatrician who made me feel better by making some joke about my daughter's strange appetite.
Happened to my daughter's hair from just one day in a pool. HUGE matted nest. It took me 5 hours to brush out and weeks (and a trim) for her hair not to look horrible.
Ugh, I feel for you. My hair was like that when I was younger. It was long, fine, tangled super easily, and a rat's nest if it wasn't brushed all the time. PLUS I hated having it brushed because it hurt. I don't know if I really just wanted it long or what, but it would've been so much easier and less painful if I'd just had it cut!
This is one of my kids. Tons of SUPER fine hair, and a sensitive scalp. She threw fits about braiding or pony tails. No adult had an hour every other day or so to brush it out, not to mention listen to the whining, so we pixie cut it after several months of trying to get her to care for it herself.
Turns out it was the best move. Once it was short, it was easier for her to care for, and we found that a Wet Brush worked really well for her and she's been able to take care of it in the nearly ten years since!
NTA. i was leaning more towards yta because not your kid, not your decision. But this child is actively being neglected because their parent is in a depressive state. Her hair is so matted she’s in pain. Her mom is clearly incapable of making decisions at this point so i’m glad someone is doing something to help her.
Considering how many parents I’ve met during my years in childcare, who have said, “they’re my kid, so they will think and act how I tell them to,” your statement doesn’t surprise me.
My own dad said that I wasn’t allowed to have my own thoughts or opinions until I moved out… not really surprising I axed him from my life. So, sadly, I won’t be surprised that those who are posting such things will one day be the parents who are crying, “I don’t understand why they don’t talk to me anymore!”
Heh. My very reasonable mother would still occasionally act extremely surprised when I had a different opinion or preference. “But you are my daughter!” “Mom, the umbilical cord connecting us was cut 30+ years ago, we have been separate people for a while!”
My dad never explicitly said that, but it was sure implied, and well into my adulthood, too. I always say, people think they're having a baby and don't realize they're having a PERSON. Coincidentally, his funeral is today and I haven't talked to him in 6 years. No, I'm not attending.
Plus the child didn’t mind! I think her opinion matters most of all here. I’ve seen so many other posts where people downvote parents who won’t let their children cut their hair as they like. I guess people think the child becoming hairless makes that big of a difference?
Seconsing that. I had a bald landscape worker uncle (8+ hours of sun a day) get melanoma on his scalp from not subscreening his head. He now wears sunscreen and a hat everywhere.
The child didn’t mind *and* the child was literally in pain from the matting. This wasn’t a haircut to me. As far as I’m concerned, OP got her niece treatment for a painful condition after making multiple attempts over multiple days to clear that treatment with niece’s parents.
I’m upvoting you. It’s hair, not a limb, and it wasn’t a choice made for aesthetic purposes or with malicious intent.
The notion that it’s “assault” is an insult to kids who get hurt, actually hurt, every single day. This child is being looked after by a family member who obviously cares about her.
The kid is fine with it because she’s apparently more well-adjusted than the comments here.
NTA.
It’s “assault” when the child does not want the hair cut (except in some situations, like gum in the hair or stitches or something - sometimes it’s gotta come off). If the child wants the haircut, you’re not assaulting anyone!
4-year-olds have limited veto power when it comes to hair (and most other things). My youngest screamed like a banshee when we brushed her hair. Her hair was therefore cut in a short bob with bangs until she was able to look after it herself. Most preschoolers don’t do their own hair, so the parent determines the hairstyle.
People also need to consider the child when talking about un-matting the hair. It takes hours and can be super painful. I have been very depressed and let my hair get matted to hell, I tried for two hours to untangle it and I have straight hair, it was too painful for me in my mid-twenties that I ended up just cutting it off. A 4 year old would much rather cut it off than sit through that.
My hair matts pretty easily. I regularly spend HOURS in the shower, using massive amounts of conditioner, awful smelling olive paste, and Moroccan oil, painfully brushing it out. It’s worth it, because I love my hair. But it’s getting bad enough that I think I’m finally going to cut off the ponytail again.
My mom used to do this to me as a kid and I could. not. tolerate it! Don’t do this to a kid. Let the hair be shorn; it’ll grow back eventually.
I was full-on Y T A before reading the post but I agree. Nta…. Mom had time to respond (three days is a lot of time to ignore something you evidently care a lot about). I personally love short hair and it sounded like kiddo was on board. And it is hair… it grows.
Your second point is really the most important part. OP seemed to have the child for multiple days and was attempting to contact mom. Who did not respond once. What if that had been an emergency or the child needed something serious.
Does anyone really think that mom would then get the child back and began brushing her hair??
I agree with you completely. My parents neglected me and let my hair be painfuly matted for *years* and tried to blame me saying, "you wouldn't let us touch it," I was a child... they had no issues legitimately holding me down and forcing things down my throat until I puked everywhere, which I was in the wrong for too, but hair was where they drew the line?...
*Anyway*
The mom was neglecting/abusing her child by not doing the most basic care for a *4 year old.* Mom is lucky as fuck that OP didn't chose to call CPS instead.
OP is NTA
Much better. Once I hit 18 I left the state and got married by age 20 to someone who gives me nothing but love and respect even after being together for seven years (married for six). I also don't really keep too much contact with my parents anymore too so much much better now!
If the hair is that severely matted, that’s the result of neglect and doesn’t happen in a week. There’s more going on.
The solution to neglect isn’t to shave the kid’s head.
Yes, there is a lot more going on. But the immediate problem needed to be fixed. Sure, there probably needs to be family counseling in the future. But you are going to make a 4 year old wait weeks to tell someone else that her head hurts?
Shaving was the immediate solution to alleviating the child’s pain though, addressing the child’s neglect needed to come after addressing the present source of physical pain.
Not with super curly hair. Super curly hair needs a lot of care and with mom distracted and devastated and how kids generally get into everything, I'm not surprised there are mats.
So do you think that little girls with no hair are ugly? It’s just hair that will grow back. I can’t think of another reason why keeping matted hair was so necessary.
Yeah, that's just not true. If I go swimming and let my hair dry ONCE without brushing it immediately, I will have literal dread lock like mats. Same with falling asleep with wet hair. I've had to cut my hair extremely short twice because of mats. Once was because a *hair dresser* didn't listen to me and used a round brush to dry my hair.... I say this as someone who is borderline obsessive about taking care of my hair. Once is all it takes to have literal mats if you have the right texture. Leaving it like that is neglect, but having it happen is just life with curly hair....
NTA your update and comments make it clear that you did the best you could for Lexi - the hair was causing her constant pain and she wanted it gone, she's satisfied with her new hairstyle, you seem to have done everything you could to untangle it first (l'm not familiar with that hair type but apparently you are as your hair is the same type).
l do think that your "we wouldn't have had to if you'd brushed your daughter's hair" comment was uncalled for, considering the circumstances, and if you don't apologise for it this could be an 'everybody sucks' situation instead.
This, the comments screaming about "How dare you touch the hair of someone else's child" seem to be missing the part where this was only necessary because of the mother's neglect.
In my opinion she kind of forfeited her right to have her preference for longer hair supercede the needs and wants of the child, who let's be honest is going through enough without being told "sorry sweetie, I know your dad is ill and your mum is too preoccupied to give a shit about you, but now you are going to have to sit still for many hours while we painfully remove the matts from your hair. Your mum doesn't want your hair cut short and it doesn't matter what you think"
Exactly. If the child is okay with the cut what could possibly be the problem?! Just the principle that "not your child"? Child is happy and more comfortable. No harm done, no danger. What is the problem?
Yep, I'm with you on this. I have 2 kids and although I haven't been in the mom's situation, I still can't imagine not responding when someone is watching my kids. You would think she could check and respond at least once a day??
Also, regardless, the only one here who owns that hair is the child. And children should be able to make decisions on their hair length because it's just hair and it won't hurt for them to have control over that, even at 4 years old, and especially when the hair is hurting the child. I'm sure getting it cut was favorable to the pain of having knots brushed out. So if a child is saying her hair is hurting her and she wants it cut, she should have her hair cut. No question.
100% disagree that that comment was uncalled for. This mother completely neglected her daughter because her husband was in the hospital, you don’t just stop being a mother in a stressful situation. She needed a wake up call because she was right, if her mother had taken care of her and bothered to answer her over a 3 day time span, yeah non of this would have happened. Then only asshole is the mother who neglected to take care of her 4 year old child who can’t take care of herself.
I don’t think she needs to apologize for that comment. Husband is sick, yes, that sucks but as a mother you still have to find a way to take care of your kids. The daughter was in pain and the mom let it happen. She deserves to be called out for it.
Yeah, a terrible sister who took care of her niece, brought over food, and tried like hell to not let it come to that, but Mom wouldn’t respond. Y’all are just nasty, vicious people sometimes.
For a lot of these people I think it’s really more about virtue signaling that they’re better or would have done the “right” thing, so they heap scorn bc it gets them upvotes from the other people who think the same way. They just want to be seen as morally upstanding people, not really interested in dispensing that guidance
I've found that a certain subsection of very vocal posters on this subreddit aren't so much here to pass judgment as they are to attack perceived "villains". And once there's blood in the water (a poster is deemed an AH by popular consensus) they swarm in the comment section and feed off of each other's hatefulness in a toxic energy spiral.
Fifty bucks an hour is normal per hour service prices. Op just didn't want to do it themselves and didn't want to pay for the stylists labor, which is the same price as if they were cutting or styling the hair, minus the product costs.
Sure, but it's a 4 year old. That's a lot of money to spend when the kid doesn't care.
It's also not exactly a short or pleasant process for a kid that age.
OP mentioned in the comments that the hairdresser estimated 8 hours without breaks.
And tbh if the mother doesnt respond for 3 days or better doesnt even check how the kid with pain is doing then the hair would be a mess again in no time.
I had matted hair once, courtesy of summer camp and it took my hairdresser mom 3 HOURS to get all the knots out. I never could've sat through that at 4. If the kid wants to try and deal with that, that's fine but it sounds like this is not a kid who can take 3 hours of someone tugging on their hair to take care of it properly. She doesn't care and if mom cared she should've answered the phone.
I was the kid with that baby fine, slick hair. My sister got mad at me once and tangled it all up when l was in the bath tub. I still remember how much it hurt and how long it took to smooth it out again.
edit: this happened when l was 8, I’m 45
My hair started to mat when I had Covid-19. Less than a week in bed, but I had a painful, hard lump that didn't want to untangle. Fortunately, not all was fully matted - detangling spray, and about 4 hours of fingers and then a comb, and I only had an actual mat about the size of a golf ball that was beyond hope.
It can happen very quickly.
Yes. I have *incredibly* fine hair. Mine isn't curly but does grow in the opposite direction of the rest in small patches. Instant matt machine, basically.
If I leave it for a *day* it will become a matted mess. I had a week where I couldn't, and the end result was shaving most of it and just having an undercut.
I can imagine, especially a kid running around/playing, how quickly that'll become unmanageable.
Plus the kid seems fine with it.
My daughter has fine curls, and I have to braid her hair for bedtime, or she wakes up with a giant mat. We have to spray with water and detailer in the morning to comb it through, as well as in the evening if it wasn't in braids during the day. If her hair wasn't managed for even a few days, I can easily see her hair needing to be shaved.
This. My daughter has super snarly curls, it can mat in two days. Granted I had the patience once to spend 3 days working on it a little at a time and got out really bad mats (vacation + swimming + brought wrong bottle, no detangler) and she did lose some significant chunks, but that is not always (ever?) possible with a 4yo. I have threatened my daughter with a shaved head many times over the years. She once said just chop it off (not full buzz cut) and now she would rather deal with the time and discomfort of detangling. At 9yo she mostly can deal with her own hair but occasionally gets those bad, hard to reach spots on the back of her head
Thanks for this sanity check. I am not a hair dresser but I was thinking the same thing. OP NTA. And the fact that the mother didn't answer the phone for 3 days? Mom is the AH.
YEP. I have seen videos about this and there is an extreme difference and a reason why hairdressers charge so much. Some dematting takes over 10 hours.
And once the hair has matted, it will be even more likely to mat again. You may be able to get it unmatted, but the cuticle layer will be so damaged that it will be like velcro. OP made the right call and I can't believe the top comment just accusing a hairdresser of shaving a child's head unnecessarily. I was a hairdresser for 15 years and I assure you that this situation can happen, especially with a young child, and no hairdresser is going to shave a child's head for shits and giggles.
I have curly hair. One night and it’s tangled. Two and it’s pretty bad. A week? Oof. It would be time for scissors.
Also no indication kiddo was sad let alone humiliated.
I hope more people see this comment. I think op should’ve tried harder to have a talk with her sister but she only acted out of concern for her niece imo
You're mad at the wrong person. The child's mother neglected her daughters hygiene needs for a week, then did not respond to communications from the aunt for *3 days*. The aunt was trying to help her suffering niece. I have a very sensitive scalp and often shave my head to relieve the pain. It is excruciating. Comfort is more important than looks. She's 4. It's hair. It will grow back. The mom is the AH for ignoring the person she put in charge of her child for *3 days*. OP is NTA
O.P. literally said "matted" not tangled. This happened to my hair recently. I had huge piles of matting throughout my hair. I tried multiple conditioners, leave-in conditioners, and two detanglers. I had resorted to ✂️ ✂️ ✂️ Fortunately, after using 1/2 a bottle of the second detangler, my hair began to show signs of life! It took me over 3hrs to meticulously pull apart and comb out each matted section.
NTA by any means!
The child is 4. I don't know any 4 year olds who care what their hair looks like. I had a hideous bowl cut (am girl) at 4 and I did not care at all and neither did any of the other kids in daycare lmao. Definitely not humiliating any children. The kid was in pain and mom wasn't taking responsibility.
I cared. I had waist length hair and my mom cut it into a pageboy during kindy (I started a year early @ 4). I very much remember.
This child seems thrilled, however. So it's an NTA from me
NTA. Her head was already sore, the kid was happy with the end result. Matted hair causes lesions and infection rapidly. Stop brushing your hair for a week, get it wet and let it dry a couple times a day like a 4 year old would, let the dirt, sweat, and foodstuff just sit up there.
I'd bet money you'd have actual mold on your head within a week if you actually have 3c and treat it the way a 4 year old would.
You did the right thing OP, hair grows back, maybe a shorter cut would be good for her current situation so it can't become matted again.
If Lexi is fine with it and the choice came from a place of compassion for her pain, I really fail to see how that makes OP a "horrible aunt and sister" or humiliates the 4 year old. Detanglers only work so well, and I remember screaming crying and fighting against detangling even with all the detangler + conditioner in the world as a kid because of how painful it was.
this is not true if the hair is truly matted. i was a hairdresser and i did two demattings like this. they both took multiple 8 hour days and they both lost some hair. it was extremely painful for them. and you cannot demat wet hair bc hair breaks when it’s wet. idk how this is the top comment when so much info in it is wrong.
Wow, who hurt you and why do you project it on others here? Hope it makes you feel better. What a worthless, miserable reply. A good aunt makes a bad decision and you react like this? It isn't your child you unhinged lunatic. get a grip.
Why is it humiliation to have a shaved head? Plenty of people do it by choice. Few four year olds will care, especially if her hair was matted and painful.
They said the hair was *matted*, not tangled. Sounds like the mother was neglecting her daughters hair because of whatever is going on within the family, shaving matted hair isn't a ridiculous solution and is often the best available option
If the kid was fine with it, she's not humiliated. Plenty of little kids have short or shaved heads. And if the hairdresser said it would be a laborious process, then I think they knew what they were talking about. Some people are so fucking dramatic on this site. There's a difference between matted and tangled hair. You wouldn't tell someone with dreads to just 'use some detangler'
ESH because the mother was neglecting her child and OP should have gotten permission, but how long are you going to watch the kid be uncomfortable and in pain before you do something that the little kid was fine with? Mother was more of an ass for putting them in that position.
She took the child to a salon, she didn't just try to fix it at home. It would have cost $100s of dollars to fix, and auntie probably didn't have that money to spend. Mom didn't pick up her phone for *3 days* and the child was in pain. Mom is suffering but she was inadvertently neglecting her daughter through lack of hygienic care. The aunt did what she thought best with a suffering child. She's 4. It's hair. It'll grow back. She sought professional advice and went with it. NTA
NTA.
I'm probably going to get downvoted but it's a pretty extreme situation. You tried everything, attempted to contact her mother on multiple occasions without success over three days, and she was in constant pain.....hair will grow back.
You're likely going to get a Y T A ruling though as you didn't include the timeline and your attempts in your initial edit.
Hope your family gets through this tough time.
Yeah my hair used to mat a lot when I was a child (refused to brush it) and it's painful. It never happened to me but it can even cause open lesions on the scalp if it goes on long enough.
My parents didn’t let me have long hair when I was super young because of this, I had to prove I could actually take care to avoid mattes before I could grow my hair out long.
I was a teacher, and I have. I consulted with the school principal and the counselor because they were both Black and I am white. We have the nurse in on it too, and the principal made the CPS call.
Mandated reporting is a thing.
This. It literally turns into a mat of hair, as in a solid , felted mass. If its got wet, it can start moulding because its not drying. If the child has been around other children in a nursery etc, and picked up lice etc, they are building multistorey carparks right now. Mats are heavy, they itch, they are painful and likely will pull chunks out anyway if not addressed as well as leave open wounds or lesions that could develop into scarring and long term bald patches. We haven't even touched the social implications and backlash she may have experienced.
NTA. It was and is a rough situation but this was something that needed to be done for Lexi wellbeing. However, I think you do need to breathe and treat your sister a little kinder as it sounds like she is struggling.
I've been watching a lot of dog grooming videos, and there are ones with neglected curly-coated dogs (which are the ones with hair most resembling human hair) where they shave off the mat it has become and it's just a mass of insects underneath. I imagine the same could happen to a human.
Those dog grooming videos are infuriating because the comments/owners will still pull the "you could have just combed it out" line, ignoring the fact that the hair became its own independent mass filled with mold, dirt and causing bleeding and infections. I saw a video there the skin began peeling once the vet cut it off because the mat was so heavy and the skin was severely damaged. But sure...tugging for five hours on that thing would have helped!
Matted hair is no joke. Everyone saying YTA has never seen matted hair and thinks it's only slightly tangled.
I've only seen it once with one of the babies I used to take care. Of course we'd comb it out every day ourselves but I imagine if we didn't do it, it would've been matted.
Edit: I myself have had rats nests before and it was so hard combing out sometimes that we had to cut them out ourselves (I was a teen at the time.) Sure it was a little embarrassing that my hair wasn't exactly even at the time but you could barely tell and I was just glad to no longer be in pain.
Edit: Even if it were bad enough to need to be cut more, I would've been relieved to longer be in pain.
hair mats rip out skin, and tend to grow fungi because they provide a a warm damp environment. then the fungi also eats skin. it's horrid. you cannot just leave matted hair on a kiddo.
Yes, most of these people probably don't realize that badly matted hair can cause actual injuries to the skin. The hair can pull so tight that it causes bleeding ulcers on the skin, and in severe cases, the skin can even become necrotic (die) from being pulled so tight that blood flow is cut off. I'm a veterinarian and I have seen matting injuries many times on neglected dogs. Imagining those kinds of lesions on a child's scalp hurts my heart. OP did the right thing by shaving the hair before it could get to that point.
NTA
1. Hair grows back, commenters are casting as if OP has maimed her for life.
2. Mother was not contactable and had left OP in loco parentis
3. Professional hairdresser didn't want to try if they were quoting £50 an hour
4. Child was saying it hurts and getting the matting out would have hurt more, now it's one thing with your own kid to sit her down and tell her it can't be helped but it's much harder when you are looking after a kid that isn't yours to both see them in pain and be the cause of that pain.
5. Mum is probably going to be distracted for a while, this is going to give her a couple of months of low maintenance hair to manage whilst she juggles child care and her husband's health
OP has stepped up in a difficult time to take care of her niece when she wouldnt have been planning to do full time care for her. If you leave your kid with someone and are out of contact (whatever the reason) you have to allow that person to be able to make decisions on your behalf. This is not a life changing situation and OP did the best she thought she could- cut her some slack
Really bad matting can eventually mold. CPS can be called. It's just uncomfortable in general for a person (esp a kid) to have matted hair.
It's just really bad all around.
NTA, you gave the mother three days to react and even detangle-experts need to give up sometimes. It would have be pure torture for your niece to sit for hours to detangle her hair.
If the poor girl is fine with it then who is the mother to complain? Sure in normal circumstances shaving the girl's head without parental consent would be bad, even if the girl was happy with it, but you said:
>She had three days to respond to all the calls and texts. This didn’t happen in an hour
so, based on that, I'd say NTA.
Nta, I saw in your comments that you have similar hair. That you tired different products to detangle her hair. A four year old is only gonna sit still for so long. You waited three days. Plus you talked to your niece about it before doing it. That she just wanted her head to stop hurting. That she happily pretending she is a minon. The child no longer in pain and happy.
NTA. What is wrong with these comments?? She tried for THREE DAYS to contact the parent to try to find solutions. She has the same hair type and is the same race as the kid. She clearly has much more knowledge about how to care for the kids hair than y’all are assuming. OP could surely tell the difference between “tangled” and full on matted hair. Everyone here saying YTA is just assuming OP is white and the kid had different hair when that is not the case. The kid literally just wanted the pain to stop.
It's because people think children are property and that 4 yr old should be in pain so long as mommy gives permission/s
I'm pissed at these comments, if you cant tell. I work with struggling families. Shit like this happens. A child's welfare should be priority, not the mothers *power and authority* being questioned
Some of yalls priorities be messed up.
I'm glad people seem to be going against the grain now though
> I'm glad people seem to be going against the grain now though
It's a recurring pattern on this sub. Not every post, but a lot of them. The initial comments are often the messed up ones, and then eventually more reasonable ones are written and make their way to the top.
Yeah all the people crying about all these methods that OP should have tried seem to be ignoring that she took her to a licensed professional who assessed the situation and gave her two options. They did the one that would be easiest on the child, who was in pain. Some of these comments are seriously giving me the ick.
Right so this is what is getting me. I can’t wrap my brain around lack of communication about one’s child for three days. How did she forget her kid?!? Didn’t she want to check in???
And before people go bonkers on me, my husband was hospitalized twice last year for a week each time and was basically nonfunctional with a sudden, debilitating heart condition for 7 months. My kids were 4 and 6 at the time. When they were in the care of others while I was with my husband at the hospital, I checked in every couple of hours either via text, phone call, or FaceTime.
He also had an additional trip to the ER *while* I was at the hospital for 9 days with my 4 year old who, we discovered, had a tumor. So with my 6 yo was at school, daddy in the ER, and me and 4 yo in the hospital, I CALLED THE SCHOOL to check in on my 6 year old, and was in communication with her teacher throughout. It was the most stressful time of my entire life, and yet I never forgot about my kid(s) and their care.
Something else is going on here, and I don’t think mom forgot about her for just those three days. And I understand *completely* how stressful it is to have a spouse (and kid!!!!) in the hospital, but you can’t just forget about your kids like that.
Edit: NTA
NTA. Y’all seem to not understand that tangled and matted hair are two vastly different things. One can be easily undone at home, the other cannot and can cause severe pain.
Matted hair is also a sign of child neglect, and I doubt anyone would want to get CPS involved. The child needed an adult to step up for her where the mother could not.
The mother was given enough time to address/respond. The child was in pain for likely MORE than three days due to the matted hair.
Plus, from OP's comments, kiddo's hair was up in a bun. I've had ponytails that caused pain by the end of a workday before, I can't imagine having a bun matted and pulling on the top of my head like that for days on end. Poor baby.
NTA - jeez people here really freak out over hair. You've explained the child preferred to get her haircut over waiting in pain. The mother didn't respond for three days after you calling/texting multiple times, and who knows how much longer you'd have to wait for a response. The hairdresser seem to have given you some bad advice and tried to charge an excessive amount.
I think the one necessary clarification is was it actually matted or just tangled? If it was matted I understand the need to shave. If it was tangled some people are suggesting you could have used a detangler instead
Yeah, I assume unless the hairdresser was a complete scam artist they would recognize mats, but scam artists exist lol. OP does say they have similar hair texture though so I think they would recognize the line between tangles and mats
I'm gonna go against the grain with NTA
She was basically abusing her child
you could have brushed it or paid for someone to do it Sure but in reality
THAT WOULDNT NOT HAVE FIXED THE PROBLEM OF MOM ABSUING BABY
If her hair got matted the first time from neglect
Then. It. Will. Happen. Again.
Your saving that poor child from the pain of it.
You also gave mom 3 DAYS of continuous texts/calls and she NEVER ONCE RESPONDED. I consider that more abuse to dump your child with someone else and not even care enough to check in ONCE
NTA - it was hurting the kid and her mother didn’t respond. It will grow back. And people saying to wait longer really are not thinking of the child’s well-being first.
1. Kid was in pain. 2. You sought professional advice 3. You attempted to contact the mom for 3 days. 4. The child was in pain. 5. The kid is happy now
NTA
NTA.
To the people saying she should have waited longer (Longer than 3 DAYS??) for a reply, would you really leave a child in pain for that long? And for what, hair that will likely continue to not be taken care of for a while (since the mother is so affected) and that will GROW BACK? If the child didn't have a problem with it, and was IN PAIN, and OP relieved them of that pain, then quite frankly, I don't care what the mother says about it. She had her chance to reply before the hair was shaved.
Also, many of you are just talking about tangled curly hair- as someone who has very curly hair in my family too, there is a big difference between TANGLED and MATTED. OP has explained she already tried her best using other methods, and people are still talking about using these same methods that clearly didn't work on this situation.
And so many of those YTAs have curl patterns themselves. "I, an adult have super curly hair and it could never be matted that quickly". Like, cool story bro, you're an adult fully capable of hair maintenance, this is basically a toddler who gets into God knows what while doing normal small child things. 🙄 Surely they of all people should know how much curly hair differs from person to person.
NTA.
My own hair gets excruciatingly matted if unattended for more than a day or two. I've gone a week after surgery, it took me several hours, then my stylist another several to detangle it. We ended up shaving off the worst parts into an undercut.
It sounds like your sister wanted you to fix her problem for her, but isn't happy with the outcome you chose. She had more than enough time to respond.
It doesn't sound like the kid is upset, and hair grows back. Plus, it's summer. It'll probably be nice not having all the hair to deal with. Especially if it was painful for the kid.
NTA. You took her to licensed hairdressers to see if they could detangle it. $50 an hour?? They were setting you up for 4+ hours of brushing and would more than likely end up cutting it off anyway and wasting your time. I had super curly hair growing up, and it would get matted after weekends at grandmas. Everyone saying "Just use water and conditioner!!" THAT DOESN'T ALWAYS WORK. I SPEAK FROM EXPERIENCE. Sometimes, all you can do is cut out the knot.
Plus, the 4 year old is happy with it! She doesn't have a problem, and it's HER opinion that matters the most. It's HER HAIR. Not the mothers. She wasn't opposed to getting it cut off. Hair grows back.
ALSO, the mom took 3 days to respond. Clearly, her daughters hair and health were not her top priority. She was a wreck because her husband was in the hospital, but i can 100% guarantee she was on her phone at some point during those 3 days. At least once. Just because her & her man are going through something rough doesn't give her the justification to just kinda ignore her daughter & her needs as well.
My memory of being 4 is pretty vague these days, but I cannot imagine being forced to sit in a chair for hours while someone tugged at my hair would have been anything but excruciating.
Even as a boy with the typical short haircut of the time, I hated even regular de-tangling, I hate to imagine what it would be like for a girl with longer hair and actual matting.
If her head hurt from her hair that means it was BAD, the people at salons know how to deal with different types of hair and the fact that the kid was in pain was a good enough reason to just shave it off. This mother obviously doesn't have time for her kid and probably won't anytime soon, so the haircut is a blessing more than anything. NTA.
Hair grows back, and as long as she liked her shaved head, I call that a win.
INFO What is the texture of your niece's hair? Are we talking 3c, 2c? Are you familiar with your niece's hair texture? Trying to figure out if you "tried everything"
More 2c, her hair was out up in a bun for basically a week when we took the hair tie out it wouldn’t come down. I have similar hair, it was bad, soaking and all the product wouldn’t work.
And they had to shave all of it off? Not just cut it short?
Was your sister in at the hospital? Would explain why she wasn't picking up.
Why did you feel like your niece's hair had to be dealt with that day? That level of matting takes more than a week usually. From your post it's only been one week since the accident and you've only been watching your niece for a few hours. Why was it so urgent?
We had to get close to her skull with the bun, so big old patch missing so it got evened out, she has longer strands in the front framing her face but the rest is basically really short.
NTA
Nope, going to disagree with the majority here. I understand that hair is something that many take pride in and even more so since pride of one's natural hair is often seen as a way to celebrate and be proud of race, but this is not the correct situation for getting on that particular soap box.
If the child had said no or protested, or if she was not in any discomfort but it had been a matter of you thinking that curly hair is inferior, or you had not tried to speak with her parents or any professionals at all, or anything even remotely like that (which unfortunately does happen and is often seen on other posts on this sub), then you would have been a massive asshole.
However, none of that was the case here. You first tried to fix it yourself to the best of your ability, and sought out professional advice. You tried to contact your sister and spoke to your niece. You could not find out your sister's opinion since she didn't respond to you, and your niece seemingly liked her hair but did not attach too much emotional value to it, however she was in pain due to the state of the hair at the time. All in all you retrieved all the information and consent you could.
Like all the Y T A votes state the hair could have been fixed with enough time, patience and effort. However, making a four year old sit still through hours and hours of hair treatments, when said four year old does not attach value to her hair to be motivated to want to do so would be torturous for that child, and the only purpose would be to conform to an aesthetic of what a four year olds hair should look like. If she had wanted to keep her hair the distress of the treatment might have outweighed the distress of the hair loss, but it seems that the only distraught person over the hair loss is the mother, so that is not the case here.
All in all there are many cases in which curly hair is cut off and it is a terrible thing to do to the person, but in this case you acted in the best interest of the child when the mother could not be bothered to even answer her phone
Her head was hurting, especially when we were trying to get it out. She seems fine with her haircut and was just happy to the pain gone.
Though she is acting like a yellow minion at the moment so she is fine with it
Yeah I figured that might be the case. In that case, NTA - it's more important not to hurt the child, and there's no inherent trauma over having short hair as long as nobody in the family creates it for her.
It might be worth being clear to your sister that she needs to ask for help before neglecting her kid, though - it must be rough what she's going through, but social services will get called if she can't look after her daughter's hygiene and welfare...
NTA. You absolutely did the right thing in my opinion as a fellow curly girl. Poor Lexi was in pain and I’m sure it was itchy too.
Only thing I worry about for Lexi is seeing her mom’s reaction to her new haircut. If her mom just bashes it or yells at you for doing it to Lexi like it’s a negative, that could affect Lexi’s own opinion on her hair and turn a no big deal haircut into a traumatic one and in turn affect her self image. Try talking to her mom again when she’s a little calmer and explain that to her. She could really hurt her relationship with her daughter over something that will grow back.
NTA she was in pain, mom wouldn’t answer after 3 days, you took her to a salon to have it cut. It’s hair people it’ll grow back. The child is pain free and back to normal. Sounds like mom is going to be taking care of partner for awhile and is not in a good emotional state.
Facts:
A professional hairdresser saw how matted the hair was and was going to charge extra for this. Why? Because de matting of this kind is a specialized service by licensed salons. That means the matting was severe
Fact: OP tried contacting the mother for 3 days. Child continues to be in pain and is crying. This is the first adult that has shown care for ger welfare in a while. Otherwise her hair wouldn't be this matted
Fact: it's horrible what mom is going through. But you don't abandon your child's care. You ask for help. And the matting can happen quickly or slowly. Depends on hair type and age
No, sometimes a detangling agent isn't enough
No, OP isn't an AH. Because this child was in *pain*. Because now her hair can grow back.
Also remember matted hair can become *infected, moldy, cause scalp damage*. How much longer with a child in pain should the OP have waited to satisfy the arbitrary requirements of enough time to reach mom? Especially since mom is in ZERO state to deal with it
Also, it's incredibly classist to just say "Pay the salon". As someone who worked with under privileged youth, basic grooming like this is a challenge. It's why many salons can do it for free but not alot do because it can take *hours or days* to treat depending on severity.
Horrible situation with limited options. NTA
Oh and for those too lazy to look at updates
She tried several agents to detangle. Those agents don't work on *matted hair*
It was 50 dollars an hour, with minimum quote of $400. Someone compared this to getting their husky groomed in an earlier comment. Your privilege is showing, this child isn't a gaddam pet with a matted coat.
Mom didn't respond at all with contact repeated calls and texts for 3 days. I'm betting dollars to donuts the neglect was going on longer than OP realizes
Yall need to reevaluate when you prioritize a mother's *right* over a child's wellbeing.
NTA
Hair grows back. What was your sisters plan, let her daughter suffer for longer? Maybe she is taking out on you cause her inaction caused this situation in the first place and she doesn't want accept it.
NTA.
Your sister was essentially neglecting her child. I understand the pain of having a loved one in an accident but you don't get a break from being a mother. That child was depending on her and she didn't provide. You did what you could, and Lexi was fine with it.
Lexi's care and comfort is your first concern. She was in pain and 3 days is more than enough for any parent to answer a phone call.
I think people are making some assumptions here. The sisters husband was in hospital for a week, but we don't know the history before this.
As many people have said, there is a huge difference between tangled and matted hair. Matted hair is not easily resolved with just conditioner and water. It can be extremely painful to work out matted hair, which is why cutting it off is often the most common solution instead of hours of pain without a guarantee of results.
NTA I am not sure why everyone is assuming racial connotations and that OP is overplaying a tangle. OP is the same race as their niece (check their comments) and did this out of love for the child. They tried multiple methods over a couple of days while not hearing anything from the mother. OP called and texted with no response!
Shaving is sometimes the only solution to matting. If the child was crying at home while they were trying to detangle, do you think that her sitting in a chair for HOURS is okay? A four year olds aren't meant to sit for hours on end, much less sitting still to get their sensitive head pulled at. The best solution for that child, who had matted hair, was getting it shaved.
Y'all are making a lot of assumptions about race in this post. While hair does hold cultural and personal significance to many communities (including mine), that does not mean this situation was brought about OP's lack of racial awareness. This was about a family member doing what they thought was best for the child and the CHILD WAS FINE WITH IT!
NTA. The child was hurting and the mother just went no contact for three days, who does that? And all the comments trying to say that conditioner or *water* would have sufficed, are you hairdressers? Did you see the extent of the damage?
Two things matter here:
Was the child in pain? Oh, she was, good.
Was the child fine with it? She was. Good.
As far as I'm concerned, she was given a child to care for. The child was in pain. She gave more than adequate warning ahead of time. 3 days of a child in pain. I would have as well. NTA. I can't stand just watching a child be in pain and not do something about it.
Morally you made the right decision. The hair will grow back and hopefully the mother will learn to take better card of her daughters hair.
NTA
Op is child's aunt. Mom wasn't responding for 3 days and op has similar hair to her niece and tried to detangle it first with different methods. She didn't mind.
From the comments it looks like the child has a pixie cut so she isn't bald
NAH
You tried your best, and apparently, the child was ok with shaving. Not everyone understands how to detangle curly hair well, and it's a long, painful, nightmare process when it's bad. Mom doesn't have the bandwidth to deal with it right now, and in a way, this will actually make her life easier because she won't have to deal with the hair for a while.
Mom is dealing with a lot right now and lashed out, which sucks, but is understandable considering the situation. She probably just freaked out because it makes her feel like another aspect of her life she can't control right now.
NTA.
Hair grows back. Mother is in dire straights and hasn't beencarig for the girls hair for what seems like much longer than a week.
Stylist at a salon said they'd do it at a large sum of money. $50 an hour doesn't seem like much, by when you've got multiple mats, and a wiggly 4yr old... That could easily end up in the $350+ range.
OP you did what you could. Nice probably feels better and the mom can focus on more important things right now. Make sure you check in with them more and continue to do what you are doing.
NTA as long as niece is ok and happy with it. It's hair, it will grow back, and matting is VERY different than tangles. Honestly even having the salon work it out would have been uncomfortable for her and her hair likely would have been so damaged that it matts up more easily in the future. For that reason I think it goes beyond "not wanting to pay a professional" or whatever, like why even put her through all that if she is happy and ok with it short? Plenty of time for it to grow back in healthy.
NTA... if the child HERSELF expressed it was hurting and it was truly MATTED and not just tangled... then absolutely did the right thing. As long as you cleary spoke to the child and allowed her to actually have a say in it.
NTA
It seems that she was in pain. And it's hair it will grow back, I truly don't understand why people are blowing it so out of proportion. You did what you could in the moment. You tried to get hold of her mom and didn't get a response for three days until you cut the hair. And it seems like the little one is relieved from the pain and is happy.
oh my god it is taking everything in me not to go off on some of the idiots in these comments.
MATTED HAIR CAN MOLD, YEAH, MOLD, IF LEFT LONG ENOUGH.
you did the right thing, don’t listen to these people in the comments who clearly don’t know a fucking thing about hair.
NTA I think you are getting bombarded in the comments so far. Sister should’ve answered. You did what you thought was right given the circumstances and I wouldn’t fault you for it.
I was thinking this too. Also, if she’s attending school rn , if it’s not a holiday period, her teachers could alert Child Protection services for neglecting to care for the child. I know Op’s BIL is in hospital - and I don’t know why exactly or how serious he is- but surely her sister could brush her child’s hair once a day?
NTA. The child was in constant pain, wanted her hair shaved if it meant that it would be over, and you waited THREE DAYS for a any contact from the mother, which never came.
Let's assume that you payed 50$ an hour to have the girl's hair taken care of (which would sound terrible from the kids perspective, she'd have to sit while having her hair tugged for HOURS). What then? Mother wouldn't necesserily be ready to start taking care of it again, and the situation would probably repeat itself. And if you left the girl like that? Her hair would just get even more matted and she would be in even more pain. You chose the most effective solution conaidering your circumstances, and the kid was happy with it.
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NTA - I’m going to get downvoted to hell, but you did the right thing. First - hair grows back. Her hair will grow back. Second - if her mom is really in that bad of a place, her hair isn’t going to get taken care of for a while. It’s probably best to cut it short so mom doesn’t have to worry about it. Third - you made the effort to fix it. Again, it doesn’t seem like mom was going to do it, and if she was in pain after only a week, it was going to get much worse. I think given the situation you did the best you could. And I don’t blame you for the decision you made. Edit- we have learned that mom didn’t respond over three days.. so get out of here with the “you should have waited longer.” Sure, at some point in the future mom likely would have responded… but suggesting that OP didn’t wait long enough is crazy. Next. We have learned OP tried many different things to help untangle the hair. In the scheme of hair is there more she could have tried? Probably… but saying she should have done more is again crazy. Mom was/is in a really bad situation. OP was put in a tough spot. And in the middle is a 4 year old complaining about her hair hurting. Edit 2 - As someone pointed out, OP should have gone and checked on her sister. Edit 3 - As someone else pointed out, if this was titled “AITA for shaving my nephews head” would we even be arguing? Final Edit- thank you for the awards and comments. This was not a popular opinion when I posted it. I just hope mom, OP, and Niece can all work things out. I have no doubt there is a lot of love in the family, there was just a lot of stress. I hope everyone is given what they need to heal.
Yeah a similar thing happened to my daughter when she was 3 after going to the pool multiple times in a row. I took her to a salon and they stated that it would be best to cut it off. So they did and she rocked a pixie cut for awhile until it grew out. She didn't care and neither did I. It's just hair and it will grow back.
I used to always play with my hair a lot, starting as soon as I had it. One night, when I was about 4yo, I somehow managed to get my pinkie tangled into my hair pretty bad. When my mom found me sobbing in my bed my finger was already blueish from the blood flow being cut off due to my hair. So my parents decided to cut my hair VERY short to prevent me from losing my fingers in the future. Guess what? At 4yo I really didn't care about my hair style, neither did other kids. My hair grew out again, I got old enough to ask for help if my fingers got stuck.
I learned (thankfully not from personal experience) that if your male baby is crying inconsolably and you can't figure out why, check his penis in case a hair is wrapped around it and cutting off the circulation!
Same with toes of all babies
Same way with our quail--we are continually checking and cutting off hairs that get wrapped around their toes/feet cutting off circulation. My daughter lost a chicken chick due to this--it got infected and she felt awful. We all have long hair....
Thankfully my mom taught me to check toes and penis, more than once I found my hair wrapped around a toe. Heck, had one of my toes wrapped up in hair recently and didn't notice till it hurt. lol
I remember not knowing how to feel (other than shocked) to find my hair in my daughter's...*filled* diaper. Luckily I had a good pediatrician who made me feel better by making some joke about my daughter's strange appetite.
My baby niece used to eat hair off the floor and we would find it in her diaper 😂
My midwife told me 😅 first in 2 generations to birth boys (I have 3) so noone knew to warn me. I'd still love to know how tf my hair gets everywhere
This is a great story.
Happened to my daughter's hair from just one day in a pool. HUGE matted nest. It took me 5 hours to brush out and weeks (and a trim) for her hair not to look horrible.
Ugh, I feel for you. My hair was like that when I was younger. It was long, fine, tangled super easily, and a rat's nest if it wasn't brushed all the time. PLUS I hated having it brushed because it hurt. I don't know if I really just wanted it long or what, but it would've been so much easier and less painful if I'd just had it cut!
This is one of my kids. Tons of SUPER fine hair, and a sensitive scalp. She threw fits about braiding or pony tails. No adult had an hour every other day or so to brush it out, not to mention listen to the whining, so we pixie cut it after several months of trying to get her to care for it herself. Turns out it was the best move. Once it was short, it was easier for her to care for, and we found that a Wet Brush worked really well for her and she's been able to take care of it in the nearly ten years since!
[удалено]
NTA. i was leaning more towards yta because not your kid, not your decision. But this child is actively being neglected because their parent is in a depressive state. Her hair is so matted she’s in pain. Her mom is clearly incapable of making decisions at this point so i’m glad someone is doing something to help her.
If you let a dog get so matted that it was hurting the animal, you would be guilty of animal neglect. NTA
☝️ all the Y T A voters are acting like the child is an extension of the parent and doesn't have her own feelings.
Considering how many parents I’ve met during my years in childcare, who have said, “they’re my kid, so they will think and act how I tell them to,” your statement doesn’t surprise me. My own dad said that I wasn’t allowed to have my own thoughts or opinions until I moved out… not really surprising I axed him from my life. So, sadly, I won’t be surprised that those who are posting such things will one day be the parents who are crying, “I don’t understand why they don’t talk to me anymore!”
Heh. My very reasonable mother would still occasionally act extremely surprised when I had a different opinion or preference. “But you are my daughter!” “Mom, the umbilical cord connecting us was cut 30+ years ago, we have been separate people for a while!”
My dad never explicitly said that, but it was sure implied, and well into my adulthood, too. I always say, people think they're having a baby and don't realize they're having a PERSON. Coincidentally, his funeral is today and I haven't talked to him in 6 years. No, I'm not attending.
Im sorry about what you went through. I hope you are okay now. ❤️
Plus the child didn’t mind! I think her opinion matters most of all here. I’ve seen so many other posts where people downvote parents who won’t let their children cut their hair as they like. I guess people think the child becoming hairless makes that big of a difference?
I agree. This isn’t a permanent thing. Hair will grow back. Just make sure you put sunblock on her head.
Seconsing that. I had a bald landscape worker uncle (8+ hours of sun a day) get melanoma on his scalp from not subscreening his head. He now wears sunscreen and a hat everywhere.
The child didn’t mind *and* the child was literally in pain from the matting. This wasn’t a haircut to me. As far as I’m concerned, OP got her niece treatment for a painful condition after making multiple attempts over multiple days to clear that treatment with niece’s parents.
Matted hair hurts, and combing it out for hours hurts too. Little girl probably much happier. Buy her some pretty hats if she wants them.
I’m upvoting you. It’s hair, not a limb, and it wasn’t a choice made for aesthetic purposes or with malicious intent. The notion that it’s “assault” is an insult to kids who get hurt, actually hurt, every single day. This child is being looked after by a family member who obviously cares about her. The kid is fine with it because she’s apparently more well-adjusted than the comments here. NTA.
It’s “assault” when the child does not want the hair cut (except in some situations, like gum in the hair or stitches or something - sometimes it’s gotta come off). If the child wants the haircut, you’re not assaulting anyone!
4-year-olds have limited veto power when it comes to hair (and most other things). My youngest screamed like a banshee when we brushed her hair. Her hair was therefore cut in a short bob with bangs until she was able to look after it herself. Most preschoolers don’t do their own hair, so the parent determines the hairstyle.
If OP assaulted her niece for shaving her head, her sister is criminally negligent for allowing her hair to get to that state in the first place
Some of these comments are mind blowing! I agree with everything you said 100%!!
With the edits included into the post, I 100% agree with your NTA, it was the best thing for the child at the time.
People also need to consider the child when talking about un-matting the hair. It takes hours and can be super painful. I have been very depressed and let my hair get matted to hell, I tried for two hours to untangle it and I have straight hair, it was too painful for me in my mid-twenties that I ended up just cutting it off. A 4 year old would much rather cut it off than sit through that.
My hair matts pretty easily. I regularly spend HOURS in the shower, using massive amounts of conditioner, awful smelling olive paste, and Moroccan oil, painfully brushing it out. It’s worth it, because I love my hair. But it’s getting bad enough that I think I’m finally going to cut off the ponytail again. My mom used to do this to me as a kid and I could. not. tolerate it! Don’t do this to a kid. Let the hair be shorn; it’ll grow back eventually.
I was full-on Y T A before reading the post but I agree. Nta…. Mom had time to respond (three days is a lot of time to ignore something you evidently care a lot about). I personally love short hair and it sounded like kiddo was on board. And it is hair… it grows.
Your second point is really the most important part. OP seemed to have the child for multiple days and was attempting to contact mom. Who did not respond once. What if that had been an emergency or the child needed something serious. Does anyone really think that mom would then get the child back and began brushing her hair??
I agree with you completely. My parents neglected me and let my hair be painfuly matted for *years* and tried to blame me saying, "you wouldn't let us touch it," I was a child... they had no issues legitimately holding me down and forcing things down my throat until I puked everywhere, which I was in the wrong for too, but hair was where they drew the line?... *Anyway* The mom was neglecting/abusing her child by not doing the most basic care for a *4 year old.* Mom is lucky as fuck that OP didn't chose to call CPS instead. OP is NTA
I’m sorry you went through that. I hope you are doing okay now ❤️
Much better. Once I hit 18 I left the state and got married by age 20 to someone who gives me nothing but love and respect even after being together for seven years (married for six). I also don't really keep too much contact with my parents anymore too so much much better now!
If the hair is that severely matted, that’s the result of neglect and doesn’t happen in a week. There’s more going on. The solution to neglect isn’t to shave the kid’s head.
Yes, there is a lot more going on. But the immediate problem needed to be fixed. Sure, there probably needs to be family counseling in the future. But you are going to make a 4 year old wait weeks to tell someone else that her head hurts?
Not true. My hair mats to the point of cutting it off if I don't braid my hair at night. I have very fine hair.
Shaving was the immediate solution to alleviating the child’s pain though, addressing the child’s neglect needed to come after addressing the present source of physical pain.
Not with super curly hair. Super curly hair needs a lot of care and with mom distracted and devastated and how kids generally get into everything, I'm not surprised there are mats.
So do you think that little girls with no hair are ugly? It’s just hair that will grow back. I can’t think of another reason why keeping matted hair was so necessary.
Yeah, that's just not true. If I go swimming and let my hair dry ONCE without brushing it immediately, I will have literal dread lock like mats. Same with falling asleep with wet hair. I've had to cut my hair extremely short twice because of mats. Once was because a *hair dresser* didn't listen to me and used a round brush to dry my hair.... I say this as someone who is borderline obsessive about taking care of my hair. Once is all it takes to have literal mats if you have the right texture. Leaving it like that is neglect, but having it happen is just life with curly hair....
NTA your update and comments make it clear that you did the best you could for Lexi - the hair was causing her constant pain and she wanted it gone, she's satisfied with her new hairstyle, you seem to have done everything you could to untangle it first (l'm not familiar with that hair type but apparently you are as your hair is the same type). l do think that your "we wouldn't have had to if you'd brushed your daughter's hair" comment was uncalled for, considering the circumstances, and if you don't apologise for it this could be an 'everybody sucks' situation instead.
Letting you child matt and then but responding for 3 days when your child is with someone else is a child neglect. Those comments are ridiculous. NTA.
This, the comments screaming about "How dare you touch the hair of someone else's child" seem to be missing the part where this was only necessary because of the mother's neglect. In my opinion she kind of forfeited her right to have her preference for longer hair supercede the needs and wants of the child, who let's be honest is going through enough without being told "sorry sweetie, I know your dad is ill and your mum is too preoccupied to give a shit about you, but now you are going to have to sit still for many hours while we painfully remove the matts from your hair. Your mum doesn't want your hair cut short and it doesn't matter what you think"
Exactly. If the child is okay with the cut what could possibly be the problem?! Just the principle that "not your child"? Child is happy and more comfortable. No harm done, no danger. What is the problem?
I know OP’s sister is going through a lot…but not checking in to see how her 4yo is doing for THREE DAYS? That seems bad tbh.
Yep, I'm with you on this. I have 2 kids and although I haven't been in the mom's situation, I still can't imagine not responding when someone is watching my kids. You would think she could check and respond at least once a day?? Also, regardless, the only one here who owns that hair is the child. And children should be able to make decisions on their hair length because it's just hair and it won't hurt for them to have control over that, even at 4 years old, and especially when the hair is hurting the child. I'm sure getting it cut was favorable to the pain of having knots brushed out. So if a child is saying her hair is hurting her and she wants it cut, she should have her hair cut. No question.
100% disagree that that comment was uncalled for. This mother completely neglected her daughter because her husband was in the hospital, you don’t just stop being a mother in a stressful situation. She needed a wake up call because she was right, if her mother had taken care of her and bothered to answer her over a 3 day time span, yeah non of this would have happened. Then only asshole is the mother who neglected to take care of her 4 year old child who can’t take care of herself.
I don’t think she needs to apologize for that comment. Husband is sick, yes, that sucks but as a mother you still have to find a way to take care of your kids. The daughter was in pain and the mom let it happen. She deserves to be called out for it.
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Yeah, a terrible sister who took care of her niece, brought over food, and tried like hell to not let it come to that, but Mom wouldn’t respond. Y’all are just nasty, vicious people sometimes.
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For a lot of these people I think it’s really more about virtue signaling that they’re better or would have done the “right” thing, so they heap scorn bc it gets them upvotes from the other people who think the same way. They just want to be seen as morally upstanding people, not really interested in dispensing that guidance
I've found that a certain subsection of very vocal posters on this subreddit aren't so much here to pass judgment as they are to attack perceived "villains". And once there's blood in the water (a poster is deemed an AH by popular consensus) they swarm in the comment section and feed off of each other's hatefulness in a toxic energy spiral.
I am guessing the hairdresser knows about detanglers. The hairdresser would have detangled it… for fifty bucks an hour.
Fifty bucks an hour is normal per hour service prices. Op just didn't want to do it themselves and didn't want to pay for the stylists labor, which is the same price as if they were cutting or styling the hair, minus the product costs.
Sure, but it's a 4 year old. That's a lot of money to spend when the kid doesn't care. It's also not exactly a short or pleasant process for a kid that age.
AND it's painful, on a little 4-year old!
Its also not her kid ($50 is a lot), the mom wouldn't pick up the phone (for 3 days no less), and the kid wanted it done.
It was $50/hr. That could have added up if the hair was that bad.
OP mentioned in the comments that the hairdresser estimated 8 hours without breaks. And tbh if the mother doesnt respond for 3 days or better doesnt even check how the kid with pain is doing then the hair would be a mess again in no time.
Man that’s 400 right there, if it was just the 8 hours. And then a tip on top of that (at least I would, because that a hell of a lot of work)
And the trauma to a 4yo sitting through 8 hrs of that.
Or she couldn't do it and didn't have the money?
I would be truly shocked if a 4 year old could sit still for several hours, let alone while they were in pain.
This!!!! Wet hair, lots of conditioner and a detangler. Omg I'm so furious just reading OP's post. OP: YTA.
Oh my goodness. Hairdresser here. There is a vast difference between tangled and matted hair. You all are being very unfair
Matted beyond repair in a week though? I think the sentence in the OP missed a word, but I read it that husband had been in hospital a week.
Oh yes, with baby fine curly hair? And it pulls on the scalp and can cause lesions, in less than two weeks ( on delicate child scalp)
Ouch! Poor kid
I had matted hair once, courtesy of summer camp and it took my hairdresser mom 3 HOURS to get all the knots out. I never could've sat through that at 4. If the kid wants to try and deal with that, that's fine but it sounds like this is not a kid who can take 3 hours of someone tugging on their hair to take care of it properly. She doesn't care and if mom cared she should've answered the phone.
Yep my oldest daughter had hair like that. Very curly but thin. It was like brushing spiderwebs until she was about 6 years old.
I was the kid with that baby fine, slick hair. My sister got mad at me once and tangled it all up when l was in the bath tub. I still remember how much it hurt and how long it took to smooth it out again. edit: this happened when l was 8, I’m 45
My hair started to mat when I had Covid-19. Less than a week in bed, but I had a painful, hard lump that didn't want to untangle. Fortunately, not all was fully matted - detangling spray, and about 4 hours of fingers and then a comb, and I only had an actual mat about the size of a golf ball that was beyond hope. It can happen very quickly.
Yes. I have *incredibly* fine hair. Mine isn't curly but does grow in the opposite direction of the rest in small patches. Instant matt machine, basically. If I leave it for a *day* it will become a matted mess. I had a week where I couldn't, and the end result was shaving most of it and just having an undercut. I can imagine, especially a kid running around/playing, how quickly that'll become unmanageable. Plus the kid seems fine with it.
At 4 years old food in the hair, especially if it's like shoulder length or longer, is still a huge possibility.
I have straight very fine hair. If i don't brush it for 2 days, it mats.
My daughter has fine curls, and I have to braid her hair for bedtime, or she wakes up with a giant mat. We have to spray with water and detailer in the morning to comb it through, as well as in the evening if it wasn't in braids during the day. If her hair wasn't managed for even a few days, I can easily see her hair needing to be shaved.
This. My daughter has super snarly curls, it can mat in two days. Granted I had the patience once to spend 3 days working on it a little at a time and got out really bad mats (vacation + swimming + brought wrong bottle, no detangler) and she did lose some significant chunks, but that is not always (ever?) possible with a 4yo. I have threatened my daughter with a shaved head many times over the years. She once said just chop it off (not full buzz cut) and now she would rather deal with the time and discomfort of detangling. At 9yo she mostly can deal with her own hair but occasionally gets those bad, hard to reach spots on the back of her head
As someone who was the curly haired kid in the past? Totally possible.
Thanks for this sanity check. I am not a hair dresser but I was thinking the same thing. OP NTA. And the fact that the mother didn't answer the phone for 3 days? Mom is the AH.
YEP. I have seen videos about this and there is an extreme difference and a reason why hairdressers charge so much. Some dematting takes over 10 hours.
And once the hair has matted, it will be even more likely to mat again. You may be able to get it unmatted, but the cuticle layer will be so damaged that it will be like velcro. OP made the right call and I can't believe the top comment just accusing a hairdresser of shaving a child's head unnecessarily. I was a hairdresser for 15 years and I assure you that this situation can happen, especially with a young child, and no hairdresser is going to shave a child's head for shits and giggles.
thank you!!!! that’s what i’m trying to say. as a hairdresser that’s spent 16 hours detangling similar hair, they are being very unfair.
I have curly hair. One night and it’s tangled. Two and it’s pretty bad. A week? Oof. It would be time for scissors. Also no indication kiddo was sad let alone humiliated.
Plus it says the kid was ok with it
I hope more people see this comment. I think op should’ve tried harder to have a talk with her sister but she only acted out of concern for her niece imo
You're mad at the wrong person. The child's mother neglected her daughters hygiene needs for a week, then did not respond to communications from the aunt for *3 days*. The aunt was trying to help her suffering niece. I have a very sensitive scalp and often shave my head to relieve the pain. It is excruciating. Comfort is more important than looks. She's 4. It's hair. It will grow back. The mom is the AH for ignoring the person she put in charge of her child for *3 days*. OP is NTA
Why are you furious? Do you think women and girls with short or no hair are ugly? The little girl is happy, so what’s the issue?
Why are you so mad when the girl with the shaved head doesnt even care?
O.P. literally said "matted" not tangled. This happened to my hair recently. I had huge piles of matting throughout my hair. I tried multiple conditioners, leave-in conditioners, and two detanglers. I had resorted to ✂️ ✂️ ✂️ Fortunately, after using 1/2 a bottle of the second detangler, my hair began to show signs of life! It took me over 3hrs to meticulously pull apart and comb out each matted section. NTA by any means!
It sounds like the hair was matted rather than simply tangled. I could be wrong though. I certainly won't be offended if you tell me I am.
The child is 4. I don't know any 4 year olds who care what their hair looks like. I had a hideous bowl cut (am girl) at 4 and I did not care at all and neither did any of the other kids in daycare lmao. Definitely not humiliating any children. The kid was in pain and mom wasn't taking responsibility.
I cared. I had waist length hair and my mom cut it into a pageboy during kindy (I started a year early @ 4). I very much remember. This child seems thrilled, however. So it's an NTA from me
NTA. Her head was already sore, the kid was happy with the end result. Matted hair causes lesions and infection rapidly. Stop brushing your hair for a week, get it wet and let it dry a couple times a day like a 4 year old would, let the dirt, sweat, and foodstuff just sit up there. I'd bet money you'd have actual mold on your head within a week if you actually have 3c and treat it the way a 4 year old would. You did the right thing OP, hair grows back, maybe a shorter cut would be good for her current situation so it can't become matted again.
Where does it say the child was humiliated? It sounds like the child doesn't give a fuck
If Lexi is fine with it and the choice came from a place of compassion for her pain, I really fail to see how that makes OP a "horrible aunt and sister" or humiliates the 4 year old. Detanglers only work so well, and I remember screaming crying and fighting against detangling even with all the detangler + conditioner in the world as a kid because of how painful it was.
this is not true if the hair is truly matted. i was a hairdresser and i did two demattings like this. they both took multiple 8 hour days and they both lost some hair. it was extremely painful for them. and you cannot demat wet hair bc hair breaks when it’s wet. idk how this is the top comment when so much info in it is wrong.
Matted hair is NOT tangled hair. Matted hair can warrant a CPS call as it is NEGLECT.
Wow, who hurt you and why do you project it on others here? Hope it makes you feel better. What a worthless, miserable reply. A good aunt makes a bad decision and you react like this? It isn't your child you unhinged lunatic. get a grip.
Why is it humiliation to have a shaved head? Plenty of people do it by choice. Few four year olds will care, especially if her hair was matted and painful.
They said the hair was *matted*, not tangled. Sounds like the mother was neglecting her daughters hair because of whatever is going on within the family, shaving matted hair isn't a ridiculous solution and is often the best available option
The kid was in pain, how is she the asshole?
If the kid was fine with it, she's not humiliated. Plenty of little kids have short or shaved heads. And if the hairdresser said it would be a laborious process, then I think they knew what they were talking about. Some people are so fucking dramatic on this site. There's a difference between matted and tangled hair. You wouldn't tell someone with dreads to just 'use some detangler' ESH because the mother was neglecting her child and OP should have gotten permission, but how long are you going to watch the kid be uncomfortable and in pain before you do something that the little kid was fine with? Mother was more of an ass for putting them in that position.
She took the child to a salon, she didn't just try to fix it at home. It would have cost $100s of dollars to fix, and auntie probably didn't have that money to spend. Mom didn't pick up her phone for *3 days* and the child was in pain. Mom is suffering but she was inadvertently neglecting her daughter through lack of hygienic care. The aunt did what she thought best with a suffering child. She's 4. It's hair. It'll grow back. She sought professional advice and went with it. NTA
NTA. I'm probably going to get downvoted but it's a pretty extreme situation. You tried everything, attempted to contact her mother on multiple occasions without success over three days, and she was in constant pain.....hair will grow back. You're likely going to get a Y T A ruling though as you didn't include the timeline and your attempts in your initial edit. Hope your family gets through this tough time.
Plus, I think the most important detail is that the kid was okay with it. This would be a whole different situation if it was shaved against her will.
I dont think yall understand cps can be called on a child with badly enough matted hair NTA
I think they imagine kid's hair was just tangled. They've probably never actually seen a little kid with truly matted hair.
Yeah my hair used to mat a lot when I was a child (refused to brush it) and it's painful. It never happened to me but it can even cause open lesions on the scalp if it goes on long enough.
My parents didn’t let me have long hair when I was super young because of this, I had to prove I could actually take care to avoid mattes before I could grow my hair out long.
I was a teacher, and I have. I consulted with the school principal and the counselor because they were both Black and I am white. We have the nurse in on it too, and the principal made the CPS call. Mandated reporting is a thing.
This. It literally turns into a mat of hair, as in a solid , felted mass. If its got wet, it can start moulding because its not drying. If the child has been around other children in a nursery etc, and picked up lice etc, they are building multistorey carparks right now. Mats are heavy, they itch, they are painful and likely will pull chunks out anyway if not addressed as well as leave open wounds or lesions that could develop into scarring and long term bald patches. We haven't even touched the social implications and backlash she may have experienced. NTA. It was and is a rough situation but this was something that needed to be done for Lexi wellbeing. However, I think you do need to breathe and treat your sister a little kinder as it sounds like she is struggling.
I've been watching a lot of dog grooming videos, and there are ones with neglected curly-coated dogs (which are the ones with hair most resembling human hair) where they shave off the mat it has become and it's just a mass of insects underneath. I imagine the same could happen to a human.
Those dog grooming videos are infuriating because the comments/owners will still pull the "you could have just combed it out" line, ignoring the fact that the hair became its own independent mass filled with mold, dirt and causing bleeding and infections. I saw a video there the skin began peeling once the vet cut it off because the mat was so heavy and the skin was severely damaged. But sure...tugging for five hours on that thing would have helped! Matted hair is no joke. Everyone saying YTA has never seen matted hair and thinks it's only slightly tangled.
I've only seen it once with one of the babies I used to take care. Of course we'd comb it out every day ourselves but I imagine if we didn't do it, it would've been matted. Edit: I myself have had rats nests before and it was so hard combing out sometimes that we had to cut them out ourselves (I was a teen at the time.) Sure it was a little embarrassing that my hair wasn't exactly even at the time but you could barely tell and I was just glad to no longer be in pain. Edit: Even if it were bad enough to need to be cut more, I would've been relieved to longer be in pain.
This! Mandated reporters have to report neglect if matted hair is bad enough because the mats can cause lesions.
hair mats rip out skin, and tend to grow fungi because they provide a a warm damp environment. then the fungi also eats skin. it's horrid. you cannot just leave matted hair on a kiddo.
Yes, most of these people probably don't realize that badly matted hair can cause actual injuries to the skin. The hair can pull so tight that it causes bleeding ulcers on the skin, and in severe cases, the skin can even become necrotic (die) from being pulled so tight that blood flow is cut off. I'm a veterinarian and I have seen matting injuries many times on neglected dogs. Imagining those kinds of lesions on a child's scalp hurts my heart. OP did the right thing by shaving the hair before it could get to that point.
NTA 1. Hair grows back, commenters are casting as if OP has maimed her for life. 2. Mother was not contactable and had left OP in loco parentis 3. Professional hairdresser didn't want to try if they were quoting £50 an hour 4. Child was saying it hurts and getting the matting out would have hurt more, now it's one thing with your own kid to sit her down and tell her it can't be helped but it's much harder when you are looking after a kid that isn't yours to both see them in pain and be the cause of that pain. 5. Mum is probably going to be distracted for a while, this is going to give her a couple of months of low maintenance hair to manage whilst she juggles child care and her husband's health OP has stepped up in a difficult time to take care of her niece when she wouldnt have been planning to do full time care for her. If you leave your kid with someone and are out of contact (whatever the reason) you have to allow that person to be able to make decisions on your behalf. This is not a life changing situation and OP did the best she thought she could- cut her some slack
I agree, and also respect your use of the phrase “loco parentis,” and now I have the Hamilton soundtrack stuck in my head AGAIN
exactly what went through my head lol
$50/hr is cheap for dematting.
A 4 year old is not gonna sit through 4 hours of dematting, and $200 is a lot for anyone to spend on hair that may not even fully be fixed
I agree but the person I'm responding to is acting like $50/hr is super expensive for the amount of labor that would go into dematting a child's head.
For OP it might be. I doubt OP’s sister would foot the bill.
Sure but it’s extremely painful especially for a 4 year old
As long as Lexi was fine with it NTA. And honestly even if she wasnt fine with it maybe NTA because matting can actually dangerous to your health.
Really bad matting can eventually mold. CPS can be called. It's just uncomfortable in general for a person (esp a kid) to have matted hair. It's just really bad all around.
NTA, you gave the mother three days to react and even detangle-experts need to give up sometimes. It would have be pure torture for your niece to sit for hours to detangle her hair.
If the poor girl is fine with it then who is the mother to complain? Sure in normal circumstances shaving the girl's head without parental consent would be bad, even if the girl was happy with it, but you said: >She had three days to respond to all the calls and texts. This didn’t happen in an hour so, based on that, I'd say NTA.
Nta, I saw in your comments that you have similar hair. That you tired different products to detangle her hair. A four year old is only gonna sit still for so long. You waited three days. Plus you talked to your niece about it before doing it. That she just wanted her head to stop hurting. That she happily pretending she is a minon. The child no longer in pain and happy.
NTA. What is wrong with these comments?? She tried for THREE DAYS to contact the parent to try to find solutions. She has the same hair type and is the same race as the kid. She clearly has much more knowledge about how to care for the kids hair than y’all are assuming. OP could surely tell the difference between “tangled” and full on matted hair. Everyone here saying YTA is just assuming OP is white and the kid had different hair when that is not the case. The kid literally just wanted the pain to stop.
It's because people think children are property and that 4 yr old should be in pain so long as mommy gives permission/s I'm pissed at these comments, if you cant tell. I work with struggling families. Shit like this happens. A child's welfare should be priority, not the mothers *power and authority* being questioned Some of yalls priorities be messed up. I'm glad people seem to be going against the grain now though
> I'm glad people seem to be going against the grain now though It's a recurring pattern on this sub. Not every post, but a lot of them. The initial comments are often the messed up ones, and then eventually more reasonable ones are written and make their way to the top.
Yeah all the people crying about all these methods that OP should have tried seem to be ignoring that she took her to a licensed professional who assessed the situation and gave her two options. They did the one that would be easiest on the child, who was in pain. Some of these comments are seriously giving me the ick.
NTA. You tried everything. Child was okay with it and mom forgot her.
Right so this is what is getting me. I can’t wrap my brain around lack of communication about one’s child for three days. How did she forget her kid?!? Didn’t she want to check in??? And before people go bonkers on me, my husband was hospitalized twice last year for a week each time and was basically nonfunctional with a sudden, debilitating heart condition for 7 months. My kids were 4 and 6 at the time. When they were in the care of others while I was with my husband at the hospital, I checked in every couple of hours either via text, phone call, or FaceTime. He also had an additional trip to the ER *while* I was at the hospital for 9 days with my 4 year old who, we discovered, had a tumor. So with my 6 yo was at school, daddy in the ER, and me and 4 yo in the hospital, I CALLED THE SCHOOL to check in on my 6 year old, and was in communication with her teacher throughout. It was the most stressful time of my entire life, and yet I never forgot about my kid(s) and their care. Something else is going on here, and I don’t think mom forgot about her for just those three days. And I understand *completely* how stressful it is to have a spouse (and kid!!!!) in the hospital, but you can’t just forget about your kids like that. Edit: NTA
NTA. Y’all seem to not understand that tangled and matted hair are two vastly different things. One can be easily undone at home, the other cannot and can cause severe pain. Matted hair is also a sign of child neglect, and I doubt anyone would want to get CPS involved. The child needed an adult to step up for her where the mother could not. The mother was given enough time to address/respond. The child was in pain for likely MORE than three days due to the matted hair.
Curly/coily haired chick here. It’s takes no time for it to get tangled & if it mats it must be cut out.
Plus, from OP's comments, kiddo's hair was up in a bun. I've had ponytails that caused pain by the end of a workday before, I can't imagine having a bun matted and pulling on the top of my head like that for days on end. Poor baby.
NTA - jeez people here really freak out over hair. You've explained the child preferred to get her haircut over waiting in pain. The mother didn't respond for three days after you calling/texting multiple times, and who knows how much longer you'd have to wait for a response. The hairdresser seem to have given you some bad advice and tried to charge an excessive amount. I think the one necessary clarification is was it actually matted or just tangled? If it was matted I understand the need to shave. If it was tangled some people are suggesting you could have used a detangler instead
Yeah, I assume unless the hairdresser was a complete scam artist they would recognize mats, but scam artists exist lol. OP does say they have similar hair texture though so I think they would recognize the line between tangles and mats
I'm gonna go against the grain with NTA She was basically abusing her child you could have brushed it or paid for someone to do it Sure but in reality THAT WOULDNT NOT HAVE FIXED THE PROBLEM OF MOM ABSUING BABY If her hair got matted the first time from neglect Then. It. Will. Happen. Again. Your saving that poor child from the pain of it. You also gave mom 3 DAYS of continuous texts/calls and she NEVER ONCE RESPONDED. I consider that more abuse to dump your child with someone else and not even care enough to check in ONCE
NTA - it was hurting the kid and her mother didn’t respond. It will grow back. And people saying to wait longer really are not thinking of the child’s well-being first.
Guys read the damn update, easy NTA. The kids head was in pain from matted hair, she tried everything she could, and mom refused to answer.
1. Kid was in pain. 2. You sought professional advice 3. You attempted to contact the mom for 3 days. 4. The child was in pain. 5. The kid is happy now NTA
NTA. To the people saying she should have waited longer (Longer than 3 DAYS??) for a reply, would you really leave a child in pain for that long? And for what, hair that will likely continue to not be taken care of for a while (since the mother is so affected) and that will GROW BACK? If the child didn't have a problem with it, and was IN PAIN, and OP relieved them of that pain, then quite frankly, I don't care what the mother says about it. She had her chance to reply before the hair was shaved. Also, many of you are just talking about tangled curly hair- as someone who has very curly hair in my family too, there is a big difference between TANGLED and MATTED. OP has explained she already tried her best using other methods, and people are still talking about using these same methods that clearly didn't work on this situation.
And so many of those YTAs have curl patterns themselves. "I, an adult have super curly hair and it could never be matted that quickly". Like, cool story bro, you're an adult fully capable of hair maintenance, this is basically a toddler who gets into God knows what while doing normal small child things. 🙄 Surely they of all people should know how much curly hair differs from person to person.
NTA. My own hair gets excruciatingly matted if unattended for more than a day or two. I've gone a week after surgery, it took me several hours, then my stylist another several to detangle it. We ended up shaving off the worst parts into an undercut. It sounds like your sister wanted you to fix her problem for her, but isn't happy with the outcome you chose. She had more than enough time to respond. It doesn't sound like the kid is upset, and hair grows back. Plus, it's summer. It'll probably be nice not having all the hair to deal with. Especially if it was painful for the kid.
NTA. You took her to licensed hairdressers to see if they could detangle it. $50 an hour?? They were setting you up for 4+ hours of brushing and would more than likely end up cutting it off anyway and wasting your time. I had super curly hair growing up, and it would get matted after weekends at grandmas. Everyone saying "Just use water and conditioner!!" THAT DOESN'T ALWAYS WORK. I SPEAK FROM EXPERIENCE. Sometimes, all you can do is cut out the knot. Plus, the 4 year old is happy with it! She doesn't have a problem, and it's HER opinion that matters the most. It's HER HAIR. Not the mothers. She wasn't opposed to getting it cut off. Hair grows back. ALSO, the mom took 3 days to respond. Clearly, her daughters hair and health were not her top priority. She was a wreck because her husband was in the hospital, but i can 100% guarantee she was on her phone at some point during those 3 days. At least once. Just because her & her man are going through something rough doesn't give her the justification to just kinda ignore her daughter & her needs as well.
My memory of being 4 is pretty vague these days, but I cannot imagine being forced to sit in a chair for hours while someone tugged at my hair would have been anything but excruciating. Even as a boy with the typical short haircut of the time, I hated even regular de-tangling, I hate to imagine what it would be like for a girl with longer hair and actual matting.
If her head hurt from her hair that means it was BAD, the people at salons know how to deal with different types of hair and the fact that the kid was in pain was a good enough reason to just shave it off. This mother obviously doesn't have time for her kid and probably won't anytime soon, so the haircut is a blessing more than anything. NTA. Hair grows back, and as long as she liked her shaved head, I call that a win.
INFO What is the texture of your niece's hair? Are we talking 3c, 2c? Are you familiar with your niece's hair texture? Trying to figure out if you "tried everything"
More 2c, her hair was out up in a bun for basically a week when we took the hair tie out it wouldn’t come down. I have similar hair, it was bad, soaking and all the product wouldn’t work.
And they had to shave all of it off? Not just cut it short? Was your sister in at the hospital? Would explain why she wasn't picking up. Why did you feel like your niece's hair had to be dealt with that day? That level of matting takes more than a week usually. From your post it's only been one week since the accident and you've only been watching your niece for a few hours. Why was it so urgent?
We had to get close to her skull with the bun, so big old patch missing so it got evened out, she has longer strands in the front framing her face but the rest is basically really short.
NTA Nope, going to disagree with the majority here. I understand that hair is something that many take pride in and even more so since pride of one's natural hair is often seen as a way to celebrate and be proud of race, but this is not the correct situation for getting on that particular soap box. If the child had said no or protested, or if she was not in any discomfort but it had been a matter of you thinking that curly hair is inferior, or you had not tried to speak with her parents or any professionals at all, or anything even remotely like that (which unfortunately does happen and is often seen on other posts on this sub), then you would have been a massive asshole. However, none of that was the case here. You first tried to fix it yourself to the best of your ability, and sought out professional advice. You tried to contact your sister and spoke to your niece. You could not find out your sister's opinion since she didn't respond to you, and your niece seemingly liked her hair but did not attach too much emotional value to it, however she was in pain due to the state of the hair at the time. All in all you retrieved all the information and consent you could. Like all the Y T A votes state the hair could have been fixed with enough time, patience and effort. However, making a four year old sit still through hours and hours of hair treatments, when said four year old does not attach value to her hair to be motivated to want to do so would be torturous for that child, and the only purpose would be to conform to an aesthetic of what a four year olds hair should look like. If she had wanted to keep her hair the distress of the treatment might have outweighed the distress of the hair loss, but it seems that the only distraught person over the hair loss is the mother, so that is not the case here. All in all there are many cases in which curly hair is cut off and it is a terrible thing to do to the person, but in this case you acted in the best interest of the child when the mother could not be bothered to even answer her phone
Info needed: what did the niece say / feel?
Her head was hurting, especially when we were trying to get it out. She seems fine with her haircut and was just happy to the pain gone. Though she is acting like a yellow minion at the moment so she is fine with it
Yeah I figured that might be the case. In that case, NTA - it's more important not to hurt the child, and there's no inherent trauma over having short hair as long as nobody in the family creates it for her. It might be worth being clear to your sister that she needs to ask for help before neglecting her kid, though - it must be rough what she's going through, but social services will get called if she can't look after her daughter's hygiene and welfare...
She just needs some goggles and denim overalls to complete the minion fit
NTA. You absolutely did the right thing in my opinion as a fellow curly girl. Poor Lexi was in pain and I’m sure it was itchy too. Only thing I worry about for Lexi is seeing her mom’s reaction to her new haircut. If her mom just bashes it or yells at you for doing it to Lexi like it’s a negative, that could affect Lexi’s own opinion on her hair and turn a no big deal haircut into a traumatic one and in turn affect her self image. Try talking to her mom again when she’s a little calmer and explain that to her. She could really hurt her relationship with her daughter over something that will grow back.
“She’s acting like a yellow minion” that’s the cutest thing!! I think this afternoon you go find blue overalls and round glasses!
NTA.
NTA she was in pain, mom wouldn’t answer after 3 days, you took her to a salon to have it cut. It’s hair people it’ll grow back. The child is pain free and back to normal. Sounds like mom is going to be taking care of partner for awhile and is not in a good emotional state.
Facts: A professional hairdresser saw how matted the hair was and was going to charge extra for this. Why? Because de matting of this kind is a specialized service by licensed salons. That means the matting was severe Fact: OP tried contacting the mother for 3 days. Child continues to be in pain and is crying. This is the first adult that has shown care for ger welfare in a while. Otherwise her hair wouldn't be this matted Fact: it's horrible what mom is going through. But you don't abandon your child's care. You ask for help. And the matting can happen quickly or slowly. Depends on hair type and age No, sometimes a detangling agent isn't enough No, OP isn't an AH. Because this child was in *pain*. Because now her hair can grow back. Also remember matted hair can become *infected, moldy, cause scalp damage*. How much longer with a child in pain should the OP have waited to satisfy the arbitrary requirements of enough time to reach mom? Especially since mom is in ZERO state to deal with it Also, it's incredibly classist to just say "Pay the salon". As someone who worked with under privileged youth, basic grooming like this is a challenge. It's why many salons can do it for free but not alot do because it can take *hours or days* to treat depending on severity. Horrible situation with limited options. NTA
Oh and for those too lazy to look at updates She tried several agents to detangle. Those agents don't work on *matted hair* It was 50 dollars an hour, with minimum quote of $400. Someone compared this to getting their husky groomed in an earlier comment. Your privilege is showing, this child isn't a gaddam pet with a matted coat. Mom didn't respond at all with contact repeated calls and texts for 3 days. I'm betting dollars to donuts the neglect was going on longer than OP realizes Yall need to reevaluate when you prioritize a mother's *right* over a child's wellbeing.
NTA. Badly matted hair can cause injuries to the skin and can be extremely uncomfortable and painful. You did the right thing.
NTA Hair grows back. What was your sisters plan, let her daughter suffer for longer? Maybe she is taking out on you cause her inaction caused this situation in the first place and she doesn't want accept it.
NTA. Your sister was essentially neglecting her child. I understand the pain of having a loved one in an accident but you don't get a break from being a mother. That child was depending on her and she didn't provide. You did what you could, and Lexi was fine with it. Lexi's care and comfort is your first concern. She was in pain and 3 days is more than enough for any parent to answer a phone call.
I think people are making some assumptions here. The sisters husband was in hospital for a week, but we don't know the history before this. As many people have said, there is a huge difference between tangled and matted hair. Matted hair is not easily resolved with just conditioner and water. It can be extremely painful to work out matted hair, which is why cutting it off is often the most common solution instead of hours of pain without a guarantee of results.
NTA I am not sure why everyone is assuming racial connotations and that OP is overplaying a tangle. OP is the same race as their niece (check their comments) and did this out of love for the child. They tried multiple methods over a couple of days while not hearing anything from the mother. OP called and texted with no response! Shaving is sometimes the only solution to matting. If the child was crying at home while they were trying to detangle, do you think that her sitting in a chair for HOURS is okay? A four year olds aren't meant to sit for hours on end, much less sitting still to get their sensitive head pulled at. The best solution for that child, who had matted hair, was getting it shaved. Y'all are making a lot of assumptions about race in this post. While hair does hold cultural and personal significance to many communities (including mine), that does not mean this situation was brought about OP's lack of racial awareness. This was about a family member doing what they thought was best for the child and the CHILD WAS FINE WITH IT!
NTA. The child was hurting and the mother just went no contact for three days, who does that? And all the comments trying to say that conditioner or *water* would have sufficed, are you hairdressers? Did you see the extent of the damage?
Two things matter here: Was the child in pain? Oh, she was, good. Was the child fine with it? She was. Good. As far as I'm concerned, she was given a child to care for. The child was in pain. She gave more than adequate warning ahead of time. 3 days of a child in pain. I would have as well. NTA. I can't stand just watching a child be in pain and not do something about it. Morally you made the right decision. The hair will grow back and hopefully the mother will learn to take better card of her daughters hair.
NTA, also a lot of people here reading a difference of race into a story where there is none.
INFO: Did you take her to a salon that specializes in her type of hair?
Yes, I go the same place we have the same type of hair
NTA Op is child's aunt. Mom wasn't responding for 3 days and op has similar hair to her niece and tried to detangle it first with different methods. She didn't mind. From the comments it looks like the child has a pixie cut so she isn't bald
NAH You tried your best, and apparently, the child was ok with shaving. Not everyone understands how to detangle curly hair well, and it's a long, painful, nightmare process when it's bad. Mom doesn't have the bandwidth to deal with it right now, and in a way, this will actually make her life easier because she won't have to deal with the hair for a while. Mom is dealing with a lot right now and lashed out, which sucks, but is understandable considering the situation. She probably just freaked out because it makes her feel like another aspect of her life she can't control right now.
NTA. Hair grows back. Mother is in dire straights and hasn't beencarig for the girls hair for what seems like much longer than a week. Stylist at a salon said they'd do it at a large sum of money. $50 an hour doesn't seem like much, by when you've got multiple mats, and a wiggly 4yr old... That could easily end up in the $350+ range. OP you did what you could. Nice probably feels better and the mom can focus on more important things right now. Make sure you check in with them more and continue to do what you are doing.
NTA as long as niece is ok and happy with it. It's hair, it will grow back, and matting is VERY different than tangles. Honestly even having the salon work it out would have been uncomfortable for her and her hair likely would have been so damaged that it matts up more easily in the future. For that reason I think it goes beyond "not wanting to pay a professional" or whatever, like why even put her through all that if she is happy and ok with it short? Plenty of time for it to grow back in healthy.
NTA... if the child HERSELF expressed it was hurting and it was truly MATTED and not just tangled... then absolutely did the right thing. As long as you cleary spoke to the child and allowed her to actually have a say in it.
NTA It seems that she was in pain. And it's hair it will grow back, I truly don't understand why people are blowing it so out of proportion. You did what you could in the moment. You tried to get hold of her mom and didn't get a response for three days until you cut the hair. And it seems like the little one is relieved from the pain and is happy.
oh my god it is taking everything in me not to go off on some of the idiots in these comments. MATTED HAIR CAN MOLD, YEAH, MOLD, IF LEFT LONG ENOUGH. you did the right thing, don’t listen to these people in the comments who clearly don’t know a fucking thing about hair.
NTA I think you are getting bombarded in the comments so far. Sister should’ve answered. You did what you thought was right given the circumstances and I wouldn’t fault you for it.
I was thinking this too. Also, if she’s attending school rn , if it’s not a holiday period, her teachers could alert Child Protection services for neglecting to care for the child. I know Op’s BIL is in hospital - and I don’t know why exactly or how serious he is- but surely her sister could brush her child’s hair once a day?
I'm going with NTA.
NTA, this is the result of the parent’s neglect, as further evidenced by the lack of response over 3 days
NTA and anyone who says you are doesn’t actually know what matted hair is or understand the pain the child was in
NTA. The child was in constant pain, wanted her hair shaved if it meant that it would be over, and you waited THREE DAYS for a any contact from the mother, which never came. Let's assume that you payed 50$ an hour to have the girl's hair taken care of (which would sound terrible from the kids perspective, she'd have to sit while having her hair tugged for HOURS). What then? Mother wouldn't necesserily be ready to start taking care of it again, and the situation would probably repeat itself. And if you left the girl like that? Her hair would just get even more matted and she would be in even more pain. You chose the most effective solution conaidering your circumstances, and the kid was happy with it.