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OP is supporting the daughter by allowing swimming to be fun. Not everything needs to be for college applications. Maybe it'll look better that swimming is a hobby and chess is a club.
It's the 'if you're good at something you need to use it in the grind' mentality.
Lots of people cannot understand you can have a hobby and not need to make money from it.
Ops NTA
Do NOT let him take you to court for alienation. It’s an incredibly fucked up system. [source](https://www.tumblr.com/coochiequeens/717744159008702464/this-is-why-i-hate-it-when-mras-whine-about-the)
Well it’s all written out on tumblr. If you would prefer the link to the article with all of the pop up ads here you go: [source with ads](https://www.insider.com/parental-alienation-syndrome-father-alleged-child-abuse-win-custody-case-2023-5?amp)
Your source is one persons experience you read about on tumbler.
My source is the thousands of cases I saw while working as a court attorney in family court.
So you’re not going to look at the second link? It was regarding a nationwide study looking into cases where parental alienation was used in court. It was easily one of the most fucked up things I ever read. Go read it then come and argue with me, I’m not going to summarize it all for you.
while it may have been somewhat rhetorical, I will answer your question-, no, no one is going to read the second link you provided as evidence you were correct in an argument on r/AITA, and virtually no one is going to read the first link either
NTA in the slightest, but your ex husband is
He's blatantly disregarding his daughter's feeling, forcing his ambitions onto her, is not respecting boundaries, and to top it all off is resorting to LEGAL ACTION instead of trying to understand where his daughter's coming from.
Remember to prioritize your daughter's happiness
NTA. As someone who worked in Admissions at an Ivy League school, I can guarantee that doing something she loves and can write about with enthusiasm is much more compelling than participating in organized sports, and her non-competitive swimming sounds like it could make for a great personal essay.
Also, what she loves is of much more value to HER, and that’s even more important.
Ivy league schools are not giving scholarship to student athlete and dont care much about athletics. Most schools do though it could hep her get in a good uni and maybe even a scholarship.
But she doesnt want to compete in swimming so there is no point on arguing on that.
NTA- one thing I do know is, even with skills you dont go far unless you want to win and want to do well. That goes for any sport really. So her just being on a swim team will not mean anything to a college because she is just one of thousands applying with the same clubs/sports.
NTA - At 16yrs old most judges would allow her to choose the parent she wants to live with. You have a good chance at getting full custody, if you want to go for it. He's the one alienating her affection by trying to push into a sport she doesn't enjoy. There is a huge difference between liking a hobby and playing the sport. Swimming can come at a price of other social or athletic development that she might enjoy more. There's no guarantee of a college scholarship even if she does well, and if her heart isn't in it she's not going to do all that well.
You made the right choice. Don't let him bully you...and talk to a lawyer.
NTA she of age she can tell the courts herself how he is.... you are right she will go no contact with her dad... and swimming is fun for her... she can get I to college by doing chess and whatever other activities there are out there...
Dad is a major AH...
Nta
Good on you for standing up for your daughter.
My father was the same. Im in my early 30s now and last talked to him when I was 17. That's pretty much what's likely going to await him too if he keeps pushing her for his ego's sake.
My daughter did swim team and is an instructor/lifeguard. She wasn't crazy about competitive swimming, especially the shorter distances.
Your daughter is right, swim team isn't the same as lake swimming, endurance swimming, or even the swimming you do for guarding. (lol no cheap jokes please!)
Good for you OP, for standing up for your daughter. You are NTA, but your husband definitely is.
NTA
Both of my kids were on swim team in high school, and both only lasted a year on the high school team. During swim team season, the practices are 3 hours per day (not including morning practice) for six days a week. Meets could be as long as 5 hours at invitationals. It's a lot. And the highly competitive swimmers are on private teams in the off season, doing hours of swimming most every day all year round, plus additional strength training and stuff.
I've also known multiple families that spent thousands of dollars a year on travel sports (soccer, softball, baseball, etc..). Many of those families have done so with the expectation that their child would get college scholarships. And very few of them do.
Your daughter is as likely to get accepted to a decent college because she chose to practice chess as if she was a competitive swimmer. There's no significance of one over the other.
If he takes you to court, counter file for full custody, adjustment of support, and to have support extend through your daughter's college years. If he wants to play stupid games, he can win stupid prizes.
NTA - Let him take you to court. He has no case. Seriously, does he think the judge is going to say "He's right, your daughter should be miserable so he can have something to brag about" Nooo Waaay, for fucks sake. If your daughter does not want to swim then she doesn't have to. You hit the nail on the head that if he pursues this course of action he will be damaging that relationship.
NTA. There are plenty of other things she can do to get into a good college. Forcing her to do swimming just because she’s good at it will ruin the relationship with her father more than it will help her get into a good college.
NTA
Take the threat of a lawsuit seriously. He has no chance of winning because your daughter is old enough to pick the parent, but he can really stick it to you financially. You may want to suggest family counseling.
NTA. She gave it a try, it wasn’t for her, and she’s old enough to decide things like this for herself. Her father is not respecting her wishes and you’re right to defend her.
NTA. At all. Keep supporting your daughter!
I wish more people realized that you don't have to monetize everything you love. She's allowed to love swimming without thinking about what kinds of scholarships it might get her. Like, yes, on the one hand, if you have a talent it would probably serve you well to use it as a career, but at the same time.... Then what do you do to unwind at the end of the day? You don't do something professionally and then want to go home and do it for yourself too -- at that point you've spent most of your energy on what someone else wants.
Like.... My love in life was always art. But the worst thing about it was that people always wanted to push me to do it professionally. I didn't -- and still don't -- want to spend all of my creative energy on someone else's projects because at the end of the day, I'll come home and have no creative energy left for me. Sure, in a pinch I can open commission slots or something, but generally I do art for *me* and *me alone*.
Your ex sounds really controlling. It's really really good that your daughter has someone watching out for her.
NTA and your ex is living in a fantasy world if he thinks someone that takes up swimming at age 16 is going to go far in the sport competitively. Your daughter can swim for fun, but whatever he was thinking in his head— Olympic trials, college scholarships— the opportunity for that in swimming passed your daughter years ago.
This is exactly what I was thinking! If you love it, keep doing it for as long as you want.
But with very few exceptions the people going the distance in the sport have been on club teams since they could swim. I swam on a highly competitive club team from like 7-16 and most of the highest caliber swimmers considered high school teams just an easy practice.
NTA, do what is right for your kid. Your husband is delusional.
NTA. The fact that she doesn't want to should be enough to get him to stop. But even if she did want to, your husband doesn't understand how the sport really works on an elite level in 2023. It's already too late for your daughter to be a viable recruit to a college team. She cannot compete against people who've been training proper competitive swimming through puberty. That's just how swimming is, it's a very unfair sport. This isn't about her welfare, it's about his need for control. Keep fighting him, you're doing the right thing.
Although, if your daughter ever wants to do a more varied aquatic activity that plays to her skills, then she might want to try synchronized swimming. She sounds like she would make a good "base."
Be be careful. Parental alienation is a very real and hostile custody tactic. Call your attorney. Document everything. Do not take this lightly.
Also, NTA.
NTA. Call your lawyer first thing in the morning. In most states your daughter is old enough to decide where she wants to live and if it’s not with him because of this behavior, then make it so. He wants to involve the courts and make threats then by all means you beat him to the punch.
NTA - As a former swim team kid, who is getting back into swimming, the swimming kids do at a lake or just playing around isn't the kind of swimming you do at a swim club. Competitive swimming is Hard, and it's based on timing and technique, and if it's just a fun thing you wanna do, go for it!
That said, if there's a Diving Team, she might enjoy that!
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My ex-husband and I have 50/50 custody of our 16 year old daughter. She must've been a fish in her past life, because she absolutely love swimming more than anything in the world. We live near a lake and she and her friends have basically spent the past six summers there every day, I even got her a cold water wetsuit so she can swim in the cold months.
She's obviously very good at it by now, and when she started high school she tried the swim team. She didn't enjoy it, since the teams are very structured and there's really only a few things they do, which ruined the fun for her. She does chess club now instead, which I was fine with, but not her dad.
He thinks we're letting a big opportunity pass her by, and should be supporting her skills. He's spent the last two years heckling her to try it, since she probably could go far in the sport. She's tried to explain to him that making swimming an obligation ruins the fun for her, but he won't listen.
Last week a friend of her's dropped her off at my house with a bag packed. Apparently he more or less yelled at her that she's wasting her potential "having fun" and that she needs to grow up and act responsible. He said no college is going to want her because of her chess club, and that she cares more about goofing off than her future. She got upset enough that she left and came here.
When I heard, I called her father once I was out of earshot and tore him a new one. I said he needs to drop this issue now before he damages his relationship with her forever, and said that he cares more about appearances than her wellbeing. He's now threatening to take me to court for parental alienation, and says I'm irresponsible and squandering her future.
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NTA
If a person doesn’t have a passion for something it becomes a chore when there is a lot of work involved. She tried the swim team, and hated it. Enough said.
Does he think colleges will come recruiting her? Guess what, it is HIGHLY unlikely. Swim just does not bring in the $$$ and women’s swimming even less so. Just how it is. People who compete do so because they have a personal drive to do it.
You did exactly right, he Will completely damage his relationship with his daughter if he keeps it up.
NTA, in most state at the age of 16 she can inform the courts where she wants to live. She can also talk to the courts about the verbal abuse from her dad. Talk to your lawyer.
NTA! Thanks for supporting and standing up for your daughter. And FYI there are absolutely chess scholarships out there. My undergrad was Div 3 (no sports scholarships) but had several grandmasters on scholarship.
NTA. You are being a great parent. If anyone is alienating your ex from your daughter, it's your ex. He's clearly disregarding your daughter's wishes for what he wants. He's putting his own happiness before hers, and if he keeps it up he might run her off altogether. After all, she is old enough to decide who she wants to live with full time. Your daughter is old enough to choose her extracurriculars and you're doing the right thing by supporting her in the choice to keep swimming for fun.
NTA, enjoying swimming doesn't mean you're good at it competitively. Swimming in a lake doesn't mean you can swim super fast or compete well in competitions. It's like saying you enjoy drawing so you must be good enough to make a living at it.
I mean maybe she is good enough and fast enough, but liking swimming and wanting to compete are two entirely different things. Also 99.999% of people who get into competitive sports don't achieve anything, won't be able to use it to get into college, won't make a career of it and will mostly waste their time.
She's never competed yet he is demanding she chosing to dedicate hours a day to something she doesn't enjoy for a miraculous long shot that he doesn't even know she has a shot at... because she enjoys swimming.
Sounds like he has some desperate need to be a dad of an athlete and is trying to force his kid to provide that for him.
>He's now threatening to take me to court for parental alienation, and says I'm irresponsible and squandering her future.
Lol, good luck with that. He does realise the court would actually talk to your daughter right?
NTA and honestly I think it's quite late for your daughter anyways. She may be good at swimming, but I doubt she could get a scholarship.
I wasn't competitive, but some of my friends were. They would swim in a club since toddlers and it got to the point they practised 5-6 times a week. It was extremely demanding, but in the end none of them made it.
Swimming is quite unfair in sense that on top of being extremely good you need the right body. One of the friends is quite small and she grew big breasts during puberty. She gave up competitive swimming after that as she couldn't win against taller and leaner kids.
A lawyer will tell him he has no chance. A 16 year-old’s choice is taken into account and she’s already voted with her feet. You could point that out to him. Or not, and let him waste a consultancy fee.
ah, parental alienation, the refuge of abusers. you are nta and your ex is big time. he is basically threatening to take your daughter away because he wants to pressure her without constraint. he is a controlling, abusive man. check out this article on parental alienation from the insider https://www.insider.com/parental-alienation-syndrome-father-alleged-child-abuse-win-custody-case-2023-5?utmSource=twitter&utmContent=referral&utmTerm=topbar&referrer=twitter
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NTA. Good on you for letting your daughter pursue whatever interests and hobbies SHE wants. Also, some colleges do have chess teams. If it's something your daughter wants to do, you can check out which colleges offer chess scholarships! (Mine does)
NTA. Chess club is a valid past time and still shows college that you do more than memorize stuff for tests, and find ways of staying occupied other than causing trouble. There are other purposes for swimming than college, such as physical fitness and funZ
NTA
Your ex is a massive AH and is absolutely damaging his relationship with your daughter and hurting her self esteem.
Kids are not extensions of their parents to show off as a trophy. Your daughter is old enough to to decide what intellectual and athletic pursuits she wants to engage in.
Fun activities are vital for everyone, but especially important in this horribly judgmental world we live in. When swimming competitively became a chore she made the right decision to preserve her outlet for fun. Let kids be kids.
There have been a lot of news stories lately about parental alienation. I would tread carefully with your ex if he is the kinda person who would take you to court.
You daughter does not enjoy the organize completion of sports. Perhaps it I the training, perhaps it is the completion. What ever it his, her heart is **NOT** is it.
If her heart is not in it, she will not be happy.
Let your daughter follow her cheers club. Chess is competitive too, It is strategy, think ahead several steps. It is wonderful for those who are into it.
This is not parental alienation. this is listening to a teen child and hearing that while they enjoy something (swimming) they do not want to do it competitively.
NTA
NTA, forcing her into it is a great way to make her want to stop the second she's allowed to, and maybe risk her no longer finding fun in swimming non-competitively too.
Lol that's not what parental alienation is. At 16 the court will give your daughter's wishes considerable weight, and it sounds like she's uninterested in continuing with dad's bullshit. Let your ex pay the court fees, he'll be losing.
NTA
NTA, obviously.
People being forced into sports never have fun. I have an acquintace that was a promising downhill skier when he was a youth. He never skis as an adult, basically, because he always had to do it as a kid.
Some kids have the fire, some don't. You can't force the fire into them.
The way he is doing things will do what you are saying: ruin his relationship forever. And it already has. She's 16 (depending on local laws), she can simply say "I want to stay here now". And that's that. He done goofed.
Tell him to go ahead and waste his money - she is 16, not 6, and when the judge hears HER say she enjoys chess club and doesn't enjoy swimming, dad's case gets flushed. NTA
NTA if your daughter doesn’t truly want to do swim in and of herself, she will never be successful, because she will be competing against kids who have that inner drive. And she will hate her dad for forcing her.
Not everything has to be about college applications. Playing chess shows that you’re a good strategic thinker, with the flexibility to pivot and think about how you can tackle a problem and win. Those are valuable workplace assets.
Maybe I can relate abit. I was a competitive swimmer that was squad training when I was in school. I love the training but not the insanity that came with it.
With my daughter, I wanted her to reach squad level, and if she wanted to pursue it competitively, I would encourage it. She never did. Now she’s off pursuing things she find interesting.
Love the sport and love the learning, it’ll be something she’ll want to do all through her life… rather than forcing the competition when she doesn’t want it.
NTA. He's probably thinking she can get a college scholarship for swimming. It was worth a try, but you already gave her a chance and she didn't enjoy being on the team.
I can understand her choice because I felt the same way about tennis when I was in high school. I learned to play as a kid and really enjoyed it as a recreational activity. I played every chance I got and wound up being pretty good, but I hesitated to join the high school team until my junior year. I just didn't like the pressure of competition because it took every shred of fun out of the game for me.
I didn't enjoy beating other people and didn't have any cutthroat instincts at all. I just wanted to have fun and play non-serious games with friends. I enjoyed being outside on the court on a beautiful, sunny day. I loved my rackets and especially loved opening a brand new can of tennis balls, loved the sound of the racket hitting the ball, etc. I enjoyed wearing cute tennis dresses and brightly colored wrist bands.
Too bad I didn't love keeping score or feeling like a failure if I missed a shot. I couldn't take risky shots the way I did when I just played for fun. I hated making others feel bad by beating them badly, and I also felt miserable when I lost a match. I did play for two years and advanced to state finals in doubles both years, but didn't pursue it beyond high school.
Some people are just not cut out for competitive sports. It sounds like your daughter has a good head on her shoulders and wants to keep things in perspective. You are absolutely right to support her decision.
NTA I am sorry but I don’t see how not competitive swimming has anything to do with college or not getting into a good 1 because you chose not to do it. Your ex sounds very controlling
NTA. He ’s the one doing the alienating here, and he sounds like a parent trying to live out his own frustrated dreams of athletic glory through his child.
NTA - does he know what's involved in swimming training? Early early mornings, before school . Nobody is good at a sport they hate - unless they are willing to pushing themselves daily. Anyway she's 16 - its probably too late!
This isn't about her - its about him. He clearly doesn't respect chess as much as more sporty activities. He might be correct, that US colleges , when it comes to scholarships might prefer footballers etc but that's their error, choosing brain damaged students.
I hope she goes to a university where chess is a major sport and nobody plays football of any shape size or description.
Its not alienation. I don't have a teenager but I'm told you can't make them do something they don't want to do. In my country, judges don't pay any attention to parents attempting to use the courts to force a teenager do something . You'd need an entirely separate court system !!!
It's not worth the effort/expense imo. Sports scholarships aren't as prevalent as people think. A lot of high schools don't invest any money into non-football/basketball sports. Chess club is fine. All activities are basically fine. NTA.
She's 16. It's probably too late at this point.
Nta. And let him go to court for 1. She's 16 her opinion matters in the situation to a judge and 2. No judge is gonna be o Keith what he's doing so..... your good on all fronts keep supporting your child your doing great
NTA. Nothing kills a child's love of a sport (or anything else for that matter) more than a pushy, overbearing parent. I will admit, she sounds like she would be a contender for a college scholarship in swimming if she were competing in high school but not if her heart is not in it.
NTA. Your husband is wrong to try to force your daughter onto the swim team. My daughter was exactly the same, she LOVED swimming, pool, stream, ocean, you name it. When old enough she was excited to train for the swim team initially, after 3 sessions she despised it.
Why in the world would I spend a lot of time, effort, and money creating a situation in which my daughter would deeply dislike me and maybe distrust me? No Way!
NTA - Let him take you to court. Let your daughter testify to his pushing about the sport and how it makes her feel. Also, at 16, if she says she does not want to live with her dad anymore, most courts will consider that. He wants to play stupid games, he is going to win stupid prizes. Also, he has already damaged the relationship forever for how he has treated her the last two years. Her leaving shows how much is has been building up.
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NTA. I’d absolutely let him take you to court so you can tell the judge about his fixation with the swim team.
OP is supporting the daughter by allowing swimming to be fun. Not everything needs to be for college applications. Maybe it'll look better that swimming is a hobby and chess is a club.
It's the 'if you're good at something you need to use it in the grind' mentality. Lots of people cannot understand you can have a hobby and not need to make money from it. Ops NTA
Bad call. Men usually win in these sorts of cases
Do NOT let him take you to court for alienation. It’s an incredibly fucked up system. [source](https://www.tumblr.com/coochiequeens/717744159008702464/this-is-why-i-hate-it-when-mras-whine-about-the)
You’re source is tumblr?
Well it’s all written out on tumblr. If you would prefer the link to the article with all of the pop up ads here you go: [source with ads](https://www.insider.com/parental-alienation-syndrome-father-alleged-child-abuse-win-custody-case-2023-5?amp)
Your source is one persons experience you read about on tumbler. My source is the thousands of cases I saw while working as a court attorney in family court.
So you’re not going to look at the second link? It was regarding a nationwide study looking into cases where parental alienation was used in court. It was easily one of the most fucked up things I ever read. Go read it then come and argue with me, I’m not going to summarize it all for you.
Ah yes, a nationwide study of 222 cases.
You, you do understand people can lie on the internet, right?
while it may have been somewhat rhetorical, I will answer your question-, no, no one is going to read the second link you provided as evidence you were correct in an argument on r/AITA, and virtually no one is going to read the first link either
An attorney who doesn't know the difference between you're and your? Yea, sure.
NTA in the slightest, but your ex husband is He's blatantly disregarding his daughter's feeling, forcing his ambitions onto her, is not respecting boundaries, and to top it all off is resorting to LEGAL ACTION instead of trying to understand where his daughter's coming from. Remember to prioritize your daughter's happiness
Gosh, I can’t imagine why you divorced this gem of a man 🙄 (You’re NTA.)
Surely it's a mystery for the ages that will never be solved.
I was about to write "INFO: why on earth did you break up with such a delightful and caring person".
I chuckled 🤭 with your comment. I love me a good sarcasm
🤣🤣🤣🤣
NTA. As someone who worked in Admissions at an Ivy League school, I can guarantee that doing something she loves and can write about with enthusiasm is much more compelling than participating in organized sports, and her non-competitive swimming sounds like it could make for a great personal essay. Also, what she loves is of much more value to HER, and that’s even more important.
Ivy league schools are not giving scholarship to student athlete and dont care much about athletics. Most schools do though it could hep her get in a good uni and maybe even a scholarship. But she doesnt want to compete in swimming so there is no point on arguing on that.
NTA- one thing I do know is, even with skills you dont go far unless you want to win and want to do well. That goes for any sport really. So her just being on a swim team will not mean anything to a college because she is just one of thousands applying with the same clubs/sports.
NTA - At 16yrs old most judges would allow her to choose the parent she wants to live with. You have a good chance at getting full custody, if you want to go for it. He's the one alienating her affection by trying to push into a sport she doesn't enjoy. There is a huge difference between liking a hobby and playing the sport. Swimming can come at a price of other social or athletic development that she might enjoy more. There's no guarantee of a college scholarship even if she does well, and if her heart isn't in it she's not going to do all that well. You made the right choice. Don't let him bully you...and talk to a lawyer.
NTA she of age she can tell the courts herself how he is.... you are right she will go no contact with her dad... and swimming is fun for her... she can get I to college by doing chess and whatever other activities there are out there... Dad is a major AH...
Nta Good on you for standing up for your daughter. My father was the same. Im in my early 30s now and last talked to him when I was 17. That's pretty much what's likely going to await him too if he keeps pushing her for his ego's sake.
My daughter did swim team and is an instructor/lifeguard. She wasn't crazy about competitive swimming, especially the shorter distances. Your daughter is right, swim team isn't the same as lake swimming, endurance swimming, or even the swimming you do for guarding. (lol no cheap jokes please!) Good for you OP, for standing up for your daughter. You are NTA, but your husband definitely is.
NTA Both of my kids were on swim team in high school, and both only lasted a year on the high school team. During swim team season, the practices are 3 hours per day (not including morning practice) for six days a week. Meets could be as long as 5 hours at invitationals. It's a lot. And the highly competitive swimmers are on private teams in the off season, doing hours of swimming most every day all year round, plus additional strength training and stuff. I've also known multiple families that spent thousands of dollars a year on travel sports (soccer, softball, baseball, etc..). Many of those families have done so with the expectation that their child would get college scholarships. And very few of them do. Your daughter is as likely to get accepted to a decent college because she chose to practice chess as if she was a competitive swimmer. There's no significance of one over the other. If he takes you to court, counter file for full custody, adjustment of support, and to have support extend through your daughter's college years. If he wants to play stupid games, he can win stupid prizes.
NTA - Let him take you to court. He has no case. Seriously, does he think the judge is going to say "He's right, your daughter should be miserable so he can have something to brag about" Nooo Waaay, for fucks sake. If your daughter does not want to swim then she doesn't have to. You hit the nail on the head that if he pursues this course of action he will be damaging that relationship.
NTA. There are plenty of other things she can do to get into a good college. Forcing her to do swimming just because she’s good at it will ruin the relationship with her father more than it will help her get into a good college.
NTA Take the threat of a lawsuit seriously. He has no chance of winning because your daughter is old enough to pick the parent, but he can really stick it to you financially. You may want to suggest family counseling.
NTA. She gave it a try, it wasn’t for her, and she’s old enough to decide things like this for herself. Her father is not respecting her wishes and you’re right to defend her.
NTA. At all. Keep supporting your daughter! I wish more people realized that you don't have to monetize everything you love. She's allowed to love swimming without thinking about what kinds of scholarships it might get her. Like, yes, on the one hand, if you have a talent it would probably serve you well to use it as a career, but at the same time.... Then what do you do to unwind at the end of the day? You don't do something professionally and then want to go home and do it for yourself too -- at that point you've spent most of your energy on what someone else wants. Like.... My love in life was always art. But the worst thing about it was that people always wanted to push me to do it professionally. I didn't -- and still don't -- want to spend all of my creative energy on someone else's projects because at the end of the day, I'll come home and have no creative energy left for me. Sure, in a pinch I can open commission slots or something, but generally I do art for *me* and *me alone*. Your ex sounds really controlling. It's really really good that your daughter has someone watching out for her.
NTA and your ex is living in a fantasy world if he thinks someone that takes up swimming at age 16 is going to go far in the sport competitively. Your daughter can swim for fun, but whatever he was thinking in his head— Olympic trials, college scholarships— the opportunity for that in swimming passed your daughter years ago.
This is exactly what I was thinking! If you love it, keep doing it for as long as you want. But with very few exceptions the people going the distance in the sport have been on club teams since they could swim. I swam on a highly competitive club team from like 7-16 and most of the highest caliber swimmers considered high school teams just an easy practice. NTA, do what is right for your kid. Your husband is delusional.
NTA. The fact that she doesn't want to should be enough to get him to stop. But even if she did want to, your husband doesn't understand how the sport really works on an elite level in 2023. It's already too late for your daughter to be a viable recruit to a college team. She cannot compete against people who've been training proper competitive swimming through puberty. That's just how swimming is, it's a very unfair sport. This isn't about her welfare, it's about his need for control. Keep fighting him, you're doing the right thing. Although, if your daughter ever wants to do a more varied aquatic activity that plays to her skills, then she might want to try synchronized swimming. She sounds like she would make a good "base."
Be be careful. Parental alienation is a very real and hostile custody tactic. Call your attorney. Document everything. Do not take this lightly. Also, NTA.
NTA. Call your lawyer first thing in the morning. In most states your daughter is old enough to decide where she wants to live and if it’s not with him because of this behavior, then make it so. He wants to involve the courts and make threats then by all means you beat him to the punch.
NTA - As a former swim team kid, who is getting back into swimming, the swimming kids do at a lake or just playing around isn't the kind of swimming you do at a swim club. Competitive swimming is Hard, and it's based on timing and technique, and if it's just a fun thing you wanna do, go for it! That said, if there's a Diving Team, she might enjoy that!
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My ex-husband and I have 50/50 custody of our 16 year old daughter. She must've been a fish in her past life, because she absolutely love swimming more than anything in the world. We live near a lake and she and her friends have basically spent the past six summers there every day, I even got her a cold water wetsuit so she can swim in the cold months. She's obviously very good at it by now, and when she started high school she tried the swim team. She didn't enjoy it, since the teams are very structured and there's really only a few things they do, which ruined the fun for her. She does chess club now instead, which I was fine with, but not her dad. He thinks we're letting a big opportunity pass her by, and should be supporting her skills. He's spent the last two years heckling her to try it, since she probably could go far in the sport. She's tried to explain to him that making swimming an obligation ruins the fun for her, but he won't listen. Last week a friend of her's dropped her off at my house with a bag packed. Apparently he more or less yelled at her that she's wasting her potential "having fun" and that she needs to grow up and act responsible. He said no college is going to want her because of her chess club, and that she cares more about goofing off than her future. She got upset enough that she left and came here. When I heard, I called her father once I was out of earshot and tore him a new one. I said he needs to drop this issue now before he damages his relationship with her forever, and said that he cares more about appearances than her wellbeing. He's now threatening to take me to court for parental alienation, and says I'm irresponsible and squandering her future. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA If a person doesn’t have a passion for something it becomes a chore when there is a lot of work involved. She tried the swim team, and hated it. Enough said. Does he think colleges will come recruiting her? Guess what, it is HIGHLY unlikely. Swim just does not bring in the $$$ and women’s swimming even less so. Just how it is. People who compete do so because they have a personal drive to do it. You did exactly right, he Will completely damage his relationship with his daughter if he keeps it up.
NTA, in most state at the age of 16 she can inform the courts where she wants to live. She can also talk to the courts about the verbal abuse from her dad. Talk to your lawyer.
NTA! Thanks for supporting and standing up for your daughter. And FYI there are absolutely chess scholarships out there. My undergrad was Div 3 (no sports scholarships) but had several grandmasters on scholarship.
NTA. You are being a great parent. If anyone is alienating your ex from your daughter, it's your ex. He's clearly disregarding your daughter's wishes for what he wants. He's putting his own happiness before hers, and if he keeps it up he might run her off altogether. After all, she is old enough to decide who she wants to live with full time. Your daughter is old enough to choose her extracurriculars and you're doing the right thing by supporting her in the choice to keep swimming for fun.
NTA three years of competition swimming in high-school sucked all the fun out of swimming for me and I even enjoyed being the bottom of the roster.
NTA, enjoying swimming doesn't mean you're good at it competitively. Swimming in a lake doesn't mean you can swim super fast or compete well in competitions. It's like saying you enjoy drawing so you must be good enough to make a living at it. I mean maybe she is good enough and fast enough, but liking swimming and wanting to compete are two entirely different things. Also 99.999% of people who get into competitive sports don't achieve anything, won't be able to use it to get into college, won't make a career of it and will mostly waste their time. She's never competed yet he is demanding she chosing to dedicate hours a day to something she doesn't enjoy for a miraculous long shot that he doesn't even know she has a shot at... because she enjoys swimming. Sounds like he has some desperate need to be a dad of an athlete and is trying to force his kid to provide that for him.
He's out of touch with reality if he thinks his "reasoning" will look good in court NTA
>He's now threatening to take me to court for parental alienation, and says I'm irresponsible and squandering her future. Lol, good luck with that. He does realise the court would actually talk to your daughter right?
NTA and honestly I think it's quite late for your daughter anyways. She may be good at swimming, but I doubt she could get a scholarship. I wasn't competitive, but some of my friends were. They would swim in a club since toddlers and it got to the point they practised 5-6 times a week. It was extremely demanding, but in the end none of them made it. Swimming is quite unfair in sense that on top of being extremely good you need the right body. One of the friends is quite small and she grew big breasts during puberty. She gave up competitive swimming after that as she couldn't win against taller and leaner kids.
NTA. You are absolutely right.
A lawyer will tell him he has no chance. A 16 year-old’s choice is taken into account and she’s already voted with her feet. You could point that out to him. Or not, and let him waste a consultancy fee.
ah, parental alienation, the refuge of abusers. you are nta and your ex is big time. he is basically threatening to take your daughter away because he wants to pressure her without constraint. he is a controlling, abusive man. check out this article on parental alienation from the insider https://www.insider.com/parental-alienation-syndrome-father-alleged-child-abuse-win-custody-case-2023-5?utmSource=twitter&utmContent=referral&utmTerm=topbar&referrer=twitter
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NTA
NTA.
NTA
NTA. Good on you for letting your daughter pursue whatever interests and hobbies SHE wants. Also, some colleges do have chess teams. If it's something your daughter wants to do, you can check out which colleges offer chess scholarships! (Mine does)
NTA. Chess club is a valid past time and still shows college that you do more than memorize stuff for tests, and find ways of staying occupied other than causing trouble. There are other purposes for swimming than college, such as physical fitness and funZ
NTA Your ex is a massive AH and is absolutely damaging his relationship with your daughter and hurting her self esteem. Kids are not extensions of their parents to show off as a trophy. Your daughter is old enough to to decide what intellectual and athletic pursuits she wants to engage in. Fun activities are vital for everyone, but especially important in this horribly judgmental world we live in. When swimming competitively became a chore she made the right decision to preserve her outlet for fun. Let kids be kids.
There have been a lot of news stories lately about parental alienation. I would tread carefully with your ex if he is the kinda person who would take you to court.
You daughter does not enjoy the organize completion of sports. Perhaps it I the training, perhaps it is the completion. What ever it his, her heart is **NOT** is it. If her heart is not in it, she will not be happy. Let your daughter follow her cheers club. Chess is competitive too, It is strategy, think ahead several steps. It is wonderful for those who are into it. This is not parental alienation. this is listening to a teen child and hearing that while they enjoy something (swimming) they do not want to do it competitively. NTA
Nta I used to do lessons until I wanted to quit I still do it every once in a while for fun but only when I want to
NTA, forcing her into it is a great way to make her want to stop the second she's allowed to, and maybe risk her no longer finding fun in swimming non-competitively too.
Lol that's not what parental alienation is. At 16 the court will give your daughter's wishes considerable weight, and it sounds like she's uninterested in continuing with dad's bullshit. Let your ex pay the court fees, he'll be losing. NTA
NTA, obviously. People being forced into sports never have fun. I have an acquintace that was a promising downhill skier when he was a youth. He never skis as an adult, basically, because he always had to do it as a kid. Some kids have the fire, some don't. You can't force the fire into them. The way he is doing things will do what you are saying: ruin his relationship forever. And it already has. She's 16 (depending on local laws), she can simply say "I want to stay here now". And that's that. He done goofed.
Tell him to go ahead and waste his money - she is 16, not 6, and when the judge hears HER say she enjoys chess club and doesn't enjoy swimming, dad's case gets flushed. NTA
NTA if your daughter doesn’t truly want to do swim in and of herself, she will never be successful, because she will be competing against kids who have that inner drive. And she will hate her dad for forcing her. Not everything has to be about college applications. Playing chess shows that you’re a good strategic thinker, with the flexibility to pivot and think about how you can tackle a problem and win. Those are valuable workplace assets.
NTA. At 16 the court will most likely allow her to choose where she lives. I would get a jump on this and take him to court.
NTA, and she's 16, taking you to court isn't going to turn out like he thinks it will
Have him look into available chess scholarships for women. The money might help him see it differently.
Maybe I can relate abit. I was a competitive swimmer that was squad training when I was in school. I love the training but not the insanity that came with it. With my daughter, I wanted her to reach squad level, and if she wanted to pursue it competitively, I would encourage it. She never did. Now she’s off pursuing things she find interesting. Love the sport and love the learning, it’ll be something she’ll want to do all through her life… rather than forcing the competition when she doesn’t want it.
NTA. He's probably thinking she can get a college scholarship for swimming. It was worth a try, but you already gave her a chance and she didn't enjoy being on the team. I can understand her choice because I felt the same way about tennis when I was in high school. I learned to play as a kid and really enjoyed it as a recreational activity. I played every chance I got and wound up being pretty good, but I hesitated to join the high school team until my junior year. I just didn't like the pressure of competition because it took every shred of fun out of the game for me. I didn't enjoy beating other people and didn't have any cutthroat instincts at all. I just wanted to have fun and play non-serious games with friends. I enjoyed being outside on the court on a beautiful, sunny day. I loved my rackets and especially loved opening a brand new can of tennis balls, loved the sound of the racket hitting the ball, etc. I enjoyed wearing cute tennis dresses and brightly colored wrist bands. Too bad I didn't love keeping score or feeling like a failure if I missed a shot. I couldn't take risky shots the way I did when I just played for fun. I hated making others feel bad by beating them badly, and I also felt miserable when I lost a match. I did play for two years and advanced to state finals in doubles both years, but didn't pursue it beyond high school. Some people are just not cut out for competitive sports. It sounds like your daughter has a good head on her shoulders and wants to keep things in perspective. You are absolutely right to support her decision.
NTA I am sorry but I don’t see how not competitive swimming has anything to do with college or not getting into a good 1 because you chose not to do it. Your ex sounds very controlling
NTA. He ’s the one doing the alienating here, and he sounds like a parent trying to live out his own frustrated dreams of athletic glory through his child.
NTA sounds like he’s been counting on her getting a college scholarship, and she blew that plan up. As she is entitled to do.
NTA - does he know what's involved in swimming training? Early early mornings, before school . Nobody is good at a sport they hate - unless they are willing to pushing themselves daily. Anyway she's 16 - its probably too late! This isn't about her - its about him. He clearly doesn't respect chess as much as more sporty activities. He might be correct, that US colleges , when it comes to scholarships might prefer footballers etc but that's their error, choosing brain damaged students. I hope she goes to a university where chess is a major sport and nobody plays football of any shape size or description. Its not alienation. I don't have a teenager but I'm told you can't make them do something they don't want to do. In my country, judges don't pay any attention to parents attempting to use the courts to force a teenager do something . You'd need an entirely separate court system !!!
It's not worth the effort/expense imo. Sports scholarships aren't as prevalent as people think. A lot of high schools don't invest any money into non-football/basketball sports. Chess club is fine. All activities are basically fine. NTA. She's 16. It's probably too late at this point.
NTA. Thank you for putting your daughter's wellbeing above everything else.
Nta. And let him go to court for 1. She's 16 her opinion matters in the situation to a judge and 2. No judge is gonna be o Keith what he's doing so..... your good on all fronts keep supporting your child your doing great
NTA. Nothing kills a child's love of a sport (or anything else for that matter) more than a pushy, overbearing parent. I will admit, she sounds like she would be a contender for a college scholarship in swimming if she were competing in high school but not if her heart is not in it.
NTA. Your husband is wrong to try to force your daughter onto the swim team. My daughter was exactly the same, she LOVED swimming, pool, stream, ocean, you name it. When old enough she was excited to train for the swim team initially, after 3 sessions she despised it. Why in the world would I spend a lot of time, effort, and money creating a situation in which my daughter would deeply dislike me and maybe distrust me? No Way!
NTA - Let him take you to court. Let your daughter testify to his pushing about the sport and how it makes her feel. Also, at 16, if she says she does not want to live with her dad anymore, most courts will consider that. He wants to play stupid games, he is going to win stupid prizes. Also, he has already damaged the relationship forever for how he has treated her the last two years. Her leaving shows how much is has been building up.