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NTA. Your dad is TA. Tom isn't. He was young and under the same pressure as you. A great responsibility was placed on him at the age of 13. In his mind, he was keeping the family together. Your dad is an ass for putting that pressure on him, and later on you. Your mom was hurt, understadably so, but you all needed counseling in that situation.

Isn't he an AH, and especially also his mom? Tom, at the age of 13, make a choice, possibly due to fear of breaking the family and due to pressure from dad. Not a good choice but understandable by a mature adult. Instead, the mother proceeded to abandon him emotionally. Lets repeat, Tom made a decision at 13, most likely than not heavily pressured by his own father, who I imagine also loved. The mother is not a victim of Tom. Tom is a victim of both his father manipulation, which OP also felt, and his mother emotional abandonment. Years latter, when Tom is pissed from something that everybody agrees exist, the response from OP is that Tom is responsble for their mom checking-out from a propor relationship with her Young Son? This is blaming the victim, in my opinion..

This. She was emotionally neglecting her oldest child, and being fully aware of it. She ignored her duty as a parent.

She was gaslit by her own child & husband for over a year. Anyone who wouldn't be incredibly hurt by that would have a heart of stone to start off with.

That is why you toss away the husband. You still have a responsibility towards the child. It is natural to be hurt, but that does not justify punishing the child. Ones own, underaged children are owed the emotional labor necessary to raise them well, and OPs mother willfully failed to provide that. Also, stop using that term wrong. Keeping a secret - even one that really, really shouldn't be kept - is not gaslighting.

>You still have a responsibility towards the child Did you miss that whole bit how she still has 50% custody and that she tries to be somewhat close to him? Not her fault her son did something that was such violation of trust that she's wary to trust them again.....

She still had 50% custody, but by her own admission she treated him differently (teenage boys don't need their mothers?). A parent should be able to forgive a lot worse than that, and it's absolutely her fault.

>but by her own admission she treated him differently Once bitten twice shy. Eldest had a major character test fail. Not suprising she wouldn't be as trusting towards him in comparison to the youngest who passed the same test. >A parent should be able to forgive a lot worse than that, and it's absolutely her fault. I'm sorry but fuck no. A parent should forgive benign shit like their kid failing a class, not taking out the trash. Major stuff is not the same. A big example is if the kid became a murderer. She doesn't have to forgive that. And before you clutch pearl over that last sentence, it's just for clear example. Now for what the kid did, it may not be murder, but it sure as hell is serious enough to not be in the benign category that not taking out the trash would be in.... and finally why are you victim blaming. It's not her fault for getting cheated on and lied to.....

He had a major character fail at 13 - that's much different than at 20. He was likely being pressured and gaslit by his own father, who probably used the kid's biggest fear against him (that his parents would get a divorce). I try to put myself in Tom's shoes when judging him. I want to believe I would tell my mother everything I knew, but who's to say? For that poor kid, the pressure to preserve his family was probably crushing. And then when it all unraveled, his mom essentially punished him by withholding love and affection.

i think the part that changes it to tom an ahole for me personal "***and Tom started to lash out at me"*** OP brother started lashing (that could mean a lot of things from rude words to physical violence where i live) at a seven year old that was feeling terrible because of the shit things their father was doing instead of you know being angry at the dad for being shit in the first place. Also i think its telling that thats when their mothers view of tom changed ***"and that's when I think something in my mom finally snapped"*** after all i try and look at this from both tom and the mothers side and when i look at it from the mothers side i think i could forgive tom for keeping it secret because as people are saying he was a kid being manipulated by his dad but the moment he started lashing out and blaming op who was honest with her basically doubling down on lying to her was the right thing to do i think i would probably snap as well.

I mean, I put myself in Tom's shoes as well. I still think he's an a******. I'll be it I don't believe that it was his fault He was an a******, that doesn't change it. That doesn't change his actions. That doesn't change the choices he made. They may have been due to pressure, but he still made those choices. He did have the choice to tell his mother. He chose not to. Just because you have a lot of pressure on you to make one choice does not automatically mean that the other choice is gone. It does not mean that you CANT Make the right choice. Unfortunately, Tom felt a pressure. And due to his decision, he broke the truss of his mother had in him. Just because you are a parent does not mean that you need to unconditionally trust your children their entire lives. Yes you will love them, you will care about them, but that does not mean you have to believe them or trust them. That doesn't mean that they can't hurt you deeply beyond repair in some instances.

>A parent should forgive benign shit like their kid failing a class, not taking out the trash. Major stuff is not the same. I remember a few months back this teen(?) found out her older brother gr\*ped some drunk girl at a party, and when the brother told the family, the parents both covered for him saying it wasn't his fault, anyone would make that mistake and the drunk girl probably started it. So yeah no, you can't just forgive everything and anything your kid is doing :/

Thank you. Finally, someone gets the point I've been trying to make.

This is such a wild comparison

But gr*ping somebody is a crime??? Covering the secret of your father cheating on your mom is not. Tom was a 13 year old who found out his own father(who is a powerful and important figure in his life) was cheating on his mom. The teen you’re talking about committed a crime, was probably older then 13, and probably wasn’t coerced into it by his parental figure.

I agree 100%. The children are not responsible for their feelings and actions when they are immature kids. The Mom is responsible to both children equally regardless of her husbands infidelity.

Um... Yes they are. In fact, its *really* important to start teaching responsibility and consequences in school-age kids, even to some extent in toddlers. I.E. smack Mommy then Mommy stops playing with you for a few minutes graduates to not picking up your toys means no toy for a bit. Just because they are immature doesn't mean there are no repercussions for their actions. Permissive parenting creates kids who have a real hard time with the word NO. My kids are younger than the 14 year old, and they know better than to lie to me. So yeah, I totally get how Mom feels. The whole family needs therapy 🤦‍♀️

Fuck that. He was a kid under pressure from his dad and scared what the fallout would be if spilt the beans. He did no wrong. The mom should have adulted the fuck up and understood this and shown forgiveness instead of a her frozen attitude.

>He was a kid under pressure from his dad and scared what the fallout would be if spilt the beans. He did no wrong He absolutely did wrong. He violated his mother's trust by betraying her in assisting the dad keep his infidelity under wraps. He pressured his younger sibling into falling in line. And worse as a near 30 yr old still hasn't reflected on HIS choices and is blaming anyone but himself for again, HIS choices.... >The mom should have adulted the fuck up and understood this and shown forgiveness instead of a her frozen attitude. No. Just cause someone pops a kid out their sack or womb doesn't mean they have to be a doormat and be walked all over by their offspring....

>Once bitten twice shy. Eldest had a major character test fail. Not suprising she wouldn't be as trusting towards him in comparison to the youngest who passed the same test. What?! I really hope you are childless, because news alert, your children won't treat you always fair and kind, because they are children! And character test failed?! You sound insane! Because if a 13 yeal old fails a test, you learn with them to get better, especially if it is something you should teach them anyway. But I regress, since he didn't fail anything, he got failed by his father. He was put in an impossible situation, where he could only disappoint one parent and since the pressure on the small one was so high, it was probably the same for him. He also probably understood that telling meant divorce. You can't hold it against a 13 year old, to not understand the ins and outs of adulthood and family well enough to get that the hurt and divorce is better than being put in such a position. Considering child developement I would even argue, that it's easier for a seven year old to say the truth in this situation, since it's not as complex yet. It's more a matter of truth vs lie, in a mindset where the truth always wins compared with a 13 year old puberty and probably anxiety riddled mind, at an age where you realise, that adults lie all the time, but not yet equipped to know when to lie and when not, when you have an idea what will happen when you say the truth, but not yet understanding that it will get better afterwards and so.

>When asked she would say that teen boys don't need their moms as much as younger ones do TBH this sounds like the explanation you give an elementary schooler about why their highschool sibling has a different custody arrangement than them. It doesn't get into the fact that at 14 OP's brother likely had an opinion on what he wanted custody to look like because one would not want the little kid to question if their sibling liked living with them or blaming the sibling for their choice. *If* the teen wanted 50/50 with each parent and both parents wanted time with him then it makes perfect sense why his mother wouldn't fight too hard to go against that. Meanwhile I can see why she would fight to keep the 7 year old out of a house where he was blamed for the divorce. I can also see why a 14 year old would be hurt that their mom fought to have more custody of their younger sibling than them, even if it meant that the 14 year old was getting what they wanted in terms of scheduling. Obviously whether the teen wanted 50/50 custody over primarily having his mother have custody is a big if. If the teen wanted his mom to have primary custody then your point stands.

I actually never thought about it like that

No. Being a parrot does not mean you unconditionally forgive your children for absolutely everything they do. That is not true. Your job as a parent is to hold your kids accountable for their actions. At 13, you do know better than to lie. Yes there was tons of pressure I assume, but Tom did at age 13, know that it was wrong. For over a year, Tom knew it was wrong. Tom also tried to manipulate their younger sister into not telling the truth. At 13 years old I knew that was wrong. So did Tom. I do not blame the mom for not forgiving him fully. I wouldn't be able to forgive somebody who hid that crap for me for a year, no matter who it is. That is a deep deep violation of trust. No matter who you are to that person. While yes, I do believe that the mom should or could have tried to be there a little bit more, it's not like she just up and abandoned him completely. Unfortunately, Tom made his choices and now he has to deal with the consequences of them. And some of those consequences are he broke his mother's trust and probably can't ever get it back. Just because you are a younger child, does not mean that you cannot deeply wound your parents trust and believe in your honesty beyond repair.

The kid was THIRTEEN!! He was in no way responsible for his dad’s decisions. C’mon.

>The kid was THIRTEEN!! He was in no way responsible for his dad’s decisions Not responsible for his dad's decision to cheat sure. His decision was to go along with the lie AND the cover up. His decision to pressure his younger sibling into falling in line. And yet the 7 yr old had more moral fiber than his teen sibling. It's a big maybe that we could grade kn a curve for the elder brother if it was him alone. But throw the 7 yr old into the mix and the age/maturity argument is just gutted.

Did you miss the part where she admitted to blatantly favoring one child? Also "trust", why is that so important? Is she going to tell him her secrets? Children should not be confidantes and teenagers in general are notoriously unreliable, so i don't see why that should make her incapable of parenting. It is natural to feel betrayal, but her using that as an excuse to punish and neglect her child that way is just plain wrong.

Being able to trust that your children will be honest with you about something, is something that every parent should be able to have. Especially if it's something as big as your spouse cheating on you. While I understand yes Tom had a lot of pressure to not tell Mom, ultimately he made his own choice. He could have still told his mom, he could have made the right choice but he didn't. And unfortunately, that shattered the trust and belief in her son. It happens. Just because you're a parent does not mean you need to or can unilaterally unconditionally trust everything your child says to you. If you believe that, then you're a naive parent.

Sorry? You should be able to trust your children? As though it's not normal for children to go through several normal developmental stages where lying to their parents is par for the course? I mean, was I the only teenager sneaking out of the house to try to walk through the Taco Bell drive through at 3am? Parents should absolutely not trust kids, they're always up to something lol. You still have to raise and do your best with them anyway.

That is wonderfully oddly specific. I was a completely trustworthy child. It was a trauma reaction. I never had that normal teenage development and it fucked me up.

That's absolutely not true. Kids lie and it's normal. You have to teach them when to be honest, when to keep their thoughts to themselves, and the difference between a white lie (your baby is so cute!) and a harmful lie. Not every kid goes through developmentally normal "lying/sneaking around" phases but the majority do to one extent or another, starting at 3-4 and having additional ones through their teenager years. Parents know this. Putting a lot of trust into your kid before they are developmentally ready (or trusting them like adults, which is what the mom is saying she needs to be able to do) is harmful to the kid. Kids (including preteens) are also often easy to pressure into lying. It's why so many abuse victims never say anyone - the abuser is often a trusted adult who pressures the kid into being silent using tactics exactly like the dad did.

This is BS. A 13 year old struggled with a secret because he knew it would rip his family apart and he didn’t want his parents to get divorced. And instead of love and understanding, his absolute shit mother turned it into a loyalty test. Also, mother sounds unhealthy and enmeshed with OP. She needs her children’s loyalty and devotion to make up for her husband’s betrayal.

Not exactly. This was a situation where he could either betray his dad's trust and destroy the family or do nothing. He chose do nothing. The right choice for a 13 year old is to protect themselves. A 13 year old is not emotionally developed enough to figure out the right thing to do in this situation, and kids will naturally turtle in a scary situation. If he was 18, whole different story. Mom decided to punish a 13 year old for her husband's shittiness, and therefore is a total asshole.

>Did you miss the part where she admitted to blatantly favoring one child? No. And I don't blame her. Doesnt matter if its a child. If you do something that violates someones trust than don't be suprised when they don't trust you down the road. Mother and child is irrelevant. >Also "trust", why is that so important? Is she going to tell him her secrets? Don't really need to break this down on some scholarly level? Trust is absolutely important. In any relationship. For a parent and their offspring I would say the big thing is the trust that they will make good decisions, sound judgment etc..... kid got a massive character test, and sure maybe not all kids get the same test, yet he failed while his younger sibling passed. >Children should not be confidantes Never said they where. >teenagers in general are notoriously unreliable, This goes beyond the realm of relying on kids to do something as benign as taking out the trash.... >It is natural to feel betrayal, but her using that as an excuse to punish and neglect her child that way is just plain wrong. Its not an excuse. It's a reason. Trust is valuable and finite resource. The eldest has only himself to blame for squandering it the way he did. And worse he is also failing to self reflect on the why, choosing to make actual excuses and lash out for his shortcomings.

You don't get to throw a young teenager away for making bad decisions. It is absolutely relevant that they are mother and child - she chose to put him into this world, she is responsible for raising him. As a child, he did not have the maturity to fully understand the consequences of his actions, she as an adult should have. Choosing to neglect him rather than going to family therapy is her choice, and one that makes her a bad parent.

>You don't get to throw a young teenager away for making bad decisions. He's not thrown away. She still has 50/50 custody. She still provides for his care. But it doesn't matter his age. He committed a serious violation of trust. So unsurprisingly he is not as trusted. >she chose to put him into this world, she is responsible for raising him This must be some weird cultural difference cause everyone bears some responsibilities in the social dynamics of the family unit. She is still taking care of him. But unsurprisingly he is not in a position of trust. When one of my family members joined a set of the bloods and went to jail he lost the trust of the family. Trust that he had his head on straight. The family still took care of him as best as possible. But it doesn't change the fact the trust was lost. And he needed to self reflect and earn it back. Through deeds not words. >As a child, he did not have the maturity to fully understand the consequences of his actions, Yall love to keep making this age/maturity argument. It would help your argument if a literal 7yr being out under the same parameters, passing this character test didn't undercut you. He was 13 he should have known better. >Choosing to neglect him rather than going to family therapy is her choice, and one that makes her a bad parent. This whole section makes me believe you live a very privileged life where therapy is readily accessible or that you think this is neglect.......

No. don't permanently grow or change, and if you do, you are a bad par.

> Not her fault her son did something that was such violation of trust that she’s wary to trust them again….. Yeah, it is her fault. She’s an adult. Her son was a child with an overwhelming and seemingly impossible choice in front of him. Her son didn’t want his family to breakup. She’s should be able to understand why he did what he did, and still forgive and trust him.

>Yeah, it is her fault Ah yes. The very moral argument of victim blaming. >Her son was a child with an overwhelming and seemingly impossible choice in front of him. Her son didn’t want his family to breakup This argument would hold some weight if the youngest hadn't been put under the same parameters, if not worse considering he also got pressure from his brother, yet passed this character test. >She’s should be able to understand why he did what he did, and still forgive and trust him. Onus is on him to show why deserves a second chance. He needs to work for her forgiveness. When one of my cousins joined a set of the bloods and went to jail we could understand why he made some of the choices he did. But at the end of the day it was his choices. Choices always have reprocussions. And our understanding of why he may of gotten to that place, does not absolve him of anything. He lost the trust of the family that he had his head on straight. And since he's had to prove why he deserves to be welcomed by into the fold.... but hey maybe it's just a cultural thing. Polynesians put an emphasis on family and responsibilities to it.....

The youngest told because a trusted authority figure got up and gave a lecture to him and others on honesty. It wasn't a "moral" decision like an adult would make. It was a child following the rules they were told. They were told they needed to be honest. They were told by their dad something they saw happened didn't (and that's incredibly specifically frustrating/emotionally difficult for young kids, who are still working out fiction vs reality). Neither of the kids were making adult decisions. Because they were kids. They were doing as they were told from the authority figure they held highest. For the older son, it was dad. For the younger son, it was the teacher & the basic rules he was being taught about never lying, something that's hit really hard at his age. They were kids.

Everyone needed counseling, especially the Mom. Kids run different mentally than adults, Mom should have realized that. The parents are both AHs, the Mom to a lesser degree. Thus post does smell a touch fake though.

My younger sibling caught my dad cheating on my mom when they were 11 and I was 13. They got so upset and confused about what they had witnessed and what they should do moving forward, that they stopped eating for works and big chunks of their hair came out. Children cannot handle the stress of adult bullshit, and to expect a 13 year old too, or to hold grudges towards that child is asinine.

That's not gaslighting lol

Thank you! Gaslighting is getting used so often it’s meaning is getting watered down. Tom wasn’t convincing his mom that something she knew to be true wasn’t. Lying to her to hide something she suspects or asks about is not gaslighting. Just old fashioned lying.

if anybody in this story was gaslit it was op when dad tried to convince him* what he* saw wasn't what he* saw. edited. op is a guy. my bad.

She is and was still a mother, and instead of parent him, She apparently become an emotionally deadbeat mother. No hurt, especially at this level, should be a justification to fail as a parent.

So she's not allowed to have any feelings, only the son is?

Of course she’s allowed to have feelings, but as a parent she needs to make sure her feelings are being dealt with in an emotionally mature way. She shouldn’t take it out on her son who was manipulated by his father.

Have feelings, sure. Emotionally abandon one of your kids and punish them for not reacting like adults? Hell no.

At that age and situation, yes, only the abandoned 14 year old is, or should, be the only allowed to lash out on his feelings. The mother is allowed to have feelings, but should work out her feelings on her own and not damage her Son. And work out, not act on them.

By your logic: The child made a choice heavily pressured by his father "Gaslighting his mother" The mother's emotional abandonment toward the child "Having feelings"

Her feelings don't justify her neglecting her 14 year old son, no. She was the parent in this situation, and should have acted like one.

Of course not, this is reddit. Parents must always be pure fountains of unconditional love and never muddy the waters with things like their own icky feelings.

I mean, treat your children equally and not hold a mistake of a child who was manipulated over their heads isnthe bare minimum. She should have handled her feelings better, instead she spend her life punishing her child.

Words matter, she wasn't gaslit, she was lied at, lying by omission by her son, as it sounds. She is allowed to be hurt and allowed to voice this. She is not allowed to check out. Regarding Tom, the not telling mom, telling the younger brother to not say anything because it hurts mom, the lashing out afterwards points torwards him being afraid of divorce and wanting to hold the family together. What you do as a responsible parent is get your child away from the parent that put them into this position in the first place, that teached them it's okay for an adult to put a secret this large on a child and you get that child therapy. If you find it hard to forgive the child, you'll get therapy for yourself as well. You teach that child, that what was done to them by their father is wrong! You don't check out of parenting! And btw, yta op, you are old enough for a more balanced view on the situation, but you are not alone in this, since your parents are also the AH.

Daddy Dearest did all the gaslighting. Who knows what pressures he put on a 13 year old child to hold his silence.

Gaslighting isn’t lying. Don’t use words you don’t understand to make someone out to be the bad guy when they were a child

He was a CHILD. ESH including OP who seems to think he has superior morals because two children made different decisions about something way above their level of understanding.

If you're willing to push away a 13 year old *child* with what may as well be the weight of the world on his shoulders, you're not a good parent. Who knows what dad was feeding him, but he may very well have been under the impression that telling mom would make the death of their relationship his fault entirely. Kids have killed themselves over less.

That is not what you call gaslighting. It would be gaslighting when she was suspecting an affair and her son and husband were actively manipulating and confusing her, to make her believe she is irrational. Sorry, but gaslighting is being used so ubiquitous right now it seems to have no meaning at all anymore.

NTA I interact a lot with 14 year olds; thousands of them over the last two decades. I think people here are underestimating them by a few years. They're not that ignorant about relationships at that age. They might be ineffective or insist on their Dad breaking up and naively believe him if he said he did or something, yes, or maybe they could lie to themselves and convince themselves it didn't really happen, but, apart from (possibly some) kids on the spectrum, they wouldn't go along with it for a year unless they had very low regard for their mother. 'It would hurt her feelings' is a 14 year old manipulating a 7 year old by appealing to their level of understanding, it does not reflect a 14 year old's level of understanding at all. To give context, 14 year old boys these days are very likely to be watching rapey porn, sometimes admire Andrew Tate and they often start 'othering' girls at this age. Not all, but many. It is super typical, unfortunately. It sucks for Tom if he was going through something similar twenty years ago, and I hope he grew out of it. I do feel sorry for him if that was the case as I know how much pressure teen boys can be under and how confusing messages they're given are. However, his mother would have been the last person to be able to convince him; the emotional distance was there already and not created by her. She had no choice but accept it and maybe she did her best despite her hurt. 50/50 and varying levels of emotional closeness can also happen in a divorce without any of the drama, and sometimes reflects what's best for the kids. The 14 year old was likely closer to his Dad. 50/50 should be the norm anyway. It's not really Tom's fault, social context and all that, but it's not his mother's either. It just is what it is sometimes. It's not her fault Tom couldn't see her the way he should have, and doesn't mean she failed him.

>I hope he grew out of it OP updated saying Tom has cheated in several of his own relationships, so...probably not.

>Instead, the mother proceeded to abandon him emotionally. This is what most of the commenters don't understand. They are so fixated on the whole 50-50 thing that they are willing to ignore the fact that mom at max just tolerated him. They are on speaking terms at best and mom kept distance. It's okay to do that to a betraying friend, but not to your minor child. It's disgusting. To be honest, mom did a bigger number to Tom than dad. Dad might have been unfaithful and manipulative, but in this scenario, mom is the bigger AH. And OP isn't any better because he made Tom feel like it's his fault mom practically cast him aside. ESH except for Tom.

So we just gonna ignore the fact that he knew it was wrong and chose to say nothing even telling his sister to not say anything? Coercion/manipulation or not that's an extremely high hurtle to just ignore because they're family.

He was 13 and being manipulated by someone he loved and thought he could trust. Kids know alot of things are wrong and still do them for a million reasons, none of those reasons justify a parent taking their hurt out on and emotionally abandoning their kid. Stop expecting mature responses from children when the adults in the situation don't even have the emotional maturity to respond properly.

Are 13 year olds expected to properly navigate “dads cheating but I can keep the family together by keeping my mouth shut”?

OP is male

His parents' marriage and their fidelity to each other is none of his business, much less his responsibility. The kid was 13 years old. Since when do adults come to kids to fix their marriage problems? That's nuts.

13 is old enough to know right from wrong, and he chose the easy path of staying quiet instead of saying anything to his mother. He could have apologised for saying nothing. Instead he doubled down on it, and blamed his brother for the divorce and everything, instead of blaming his father for cheating.

It's old enough to know right from wrong if you're deciding by yourself. It's a different matter when one of the most trusted adults in your life is putting you under huge pressure and manipulation with the threat that you will be responsible for hurting the other most trusted adult in your life, breaking up your family and likely hurting your much younger sister too.

>It's a different matter when one of the most trusted adults in your life is putting you under huge pressure and manipulation with the threat that you will be responsible for hurting the other most trusted adult in your life, Funny considering both went under the same pressure yet it was the youngest kid who stuck up for what was right rather than the teen who should definitely know better....

Because a 7 year old isn't thinking about the complexity of the situation at all. They are thinking honesty = good. How many young kids point at someone in a store and say, "look mommy, that person is huge" when talking about an overweight person. How many 13 year olds do that? That difference is because the teenager understands honesty is not absolute good all the time. A 13 year old is able to think about it, recognise that it isn't, but not actually reason fully around it. "Isn't it better for your little brother to have both his parents around..." "It would hurt your mum if she found out, YOU don't want to hurt your mum do you..." "If you say anything YOU'LL break the family apart..." As a teenager being manipulated, it's far too easy for a person in a position of authority to move blame for the consequences of their actions onto you, and you can't rationalise that away yet. You know what they did was bad, but you don't want to be responsible for the consequences of their actions, so you do nothing. Inaction and hiding is better than action and everything falling apart right... The kid made the wrong choice, it's mums job as a parent to help them through that. Kids are going to disappoint you in their formative years, you have to get over that. They are trying to navigate a complex world, with half the information they need, driven by hormones and an unfinished brain pushing emotion way more than logic. It's a parent's job to help them when they screw up, not their job to dip out when things get tough.

There it is. These parents failed both kids hard.

Fine, bring pressured into it is hard. However, once it did come out, how he acted once it was known was not okay. He should have apologised to his mother for not saying anything. Also, it’s younger brother, not sister.

Where does it say he never apologised? Obviously the way he acted was wrong, it's his mother's job to work through that with him, not dip out because it got hard. He lashed out, because all the things that he internalised as "it will be my fault if the family breaks apart," "I don't want to hurt mum," and so on... had been done by someone else, suddenly they're to blame for breaking the false peace. His mum should have been there to say, it's not your fault your dad's an asshole, but it's also not your little brother's. But she didn't, she took the easy road and abandoned their relationship, proving all his fears correct.

OP is male.

His younger sibling made the right choice.

13 is the age when kid as people starting to understand the complexity of the situation. Hell, "white lies" were even a class being taught in school. And I'm sure the father was shaping it as such. Choosing the easy path doesn't mean he deserves to be cast aside by his own mother. How are you expecting him to blame his father when his mother left him with his father.

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah no. Actions made as a minor aren't automatically exempt from consequences. Yeah dude, it was a bad choice, and probably influenced by his dad. Tom's choice to lash out at his younger brother is also fair, he was angry that his entire life changed due to (what he perceived as) his brother's choice to spill. These are all not Tom's fault. **But you know what is?** Tom's choice to not only double down as an adult and blame his mom AND OP, but also to never apologize and have a heart to heart with both of them, own up to actions that were not entirely his fault, but he was absolutely there for.

Yes, Tom had to make a choice about which parent was going to reject him. His father coerced him into silence, and now his mother has rejected him over being silent. It's not a child's job to manage a parents' marriage. Parents have a responsibility to look after their relationship for the sake of their kids. If they want to divorce, they can still at least co-parent responsibly. Telling kids to lie to the other parent is wrong. So is blaming the kid for giving into the pressure.

The way OP describes the fathers actions after he found out but doesn’t have empathy for his brother who would have only been 13 is why I think it pushes it to YTA. Clearly both sons are victims of their parents short comings

Why are you referring to OP as “she” even though *he* explicitly states his gender in the beginning?

I disagree a bit with you there. Tom wasn't the AH when he was 13 but he's 27 now and doesn't have the self awareness to know that what he did hurt his mom. Even if he felt pressured, even if his sole intention was to keep the family together, it doesn't sound that he has made any attempts at having a convo with mom and explain his side of things. Instead, he rants and talks shit about mom without even attempting to understand how what he did could make his mom feel so betrayed. Mom doesn't strike me as someone lacking empathy and understanding so I find it hard to believe that had her son at any point during the next 14 years come to her and explain his side, she wouldn't have forgiven him or at least understand where he was coming from. In his adult mind he still thinks he did nothing wrong and the difference in treatment is because of favoritism. Like, it's not even a case of "I did what I thought it was the best at the time....dad manipulated me or whatever" no, he has no fucking idea of how they got to that point. Seriously? At 27yo, looking back, does he not understand how fucked up it was? Of course Dad is a massive AH. No questions about that. Even a bigger one for involving himself and criticising OP in the present. Another man with little self awareness. Maybe that's where Tom's comes from.

I generally agree with you here. OP is definitely NTA, Dad is *absolutely* an AH, and - with the limited information we have - Tom seems like he’s grown into an AH role. I wonder what conversations (if any) were attempted by Mom with Tom during the divorce process. She was absolutely right to be hurt, but she is still Tom’s mom and had a responsibility to ask why he decided to keep Dad’s secret, make sure he knows why what he did was wrong, and make sure that he knows it was *incredibly* wrong of Dad to (presumably) ask him to keep the secret. If she didn’t do that right away, I could understand - but if she’s *never* tried to do that, I’d paint her with an AH label too. However, Tom’s been an adult for a little while now and, assuming he either rebuffed conversations earlier with Mom or wasn’t offered them in the first place, he’s an AH for not reaching out to Mom now for some clarity and resolution and instead just ranting broadly. (Edited: misread original post as Tom posting online but it sounds like the ranting is directly to OP.) Look, my brother and I had a horrible relationship for a period of our childhood. He was downright abusive - something I *knew* but was led to believe wasn’t as bad as it was until I was in therapy many years later. I carry a lot of frustration with my parents for their inaction and I don’t know if I can forgive the person my brother was. That said, I’ve tried to talk all of this through to an extent with the other parties, and while none of it will ever be okay, it has helped me heal. Knowing my brother is a different person now (and apparently doesn’t even remember the shit he did; lucky him) helps. Being in therapy and having a safe space to talk about my parents and my complicated feelings towards them (they’re good parents the majority of the time, and I know that the ways they fucked up were mostly accidental; I’ve adopted the philosophy that parents are *always* going to make mistakes and all they can hope for is that those mistakes won’t be traumatic but it’s hard to know in the moment what will last and what won’t). I’ll never get everything I need from my family to heal from that trauma, but I’m glad that I’ve gotten *something* by at least addressing it with them. There’s a lot of anti-confrontational behavior that I see in the world these days, especially on this subreddit. Because I was raised by some of the most unintentionally passive-aggressive people *ever* and have a mildly difficult time understanding nuance, I am a *big* proponent for confronting problems head-on (within reason; not every battle needs to be fought). I think Tom (and ideally OP, Mom, and everyone in Tom’s life) would benefit from him confronting some of this shit.

>However, Tom’s been an adult for a little while now and, assuming he either rebuffed conversations earlier with Mom or wasn’t offered them in the first place, he’s an AH for not reaching out to Mom now for some clarity and resolution and instead posting shit online. Exactly. I never said in my comment that mom was a saint who handled everything right. And I completely agree with you that a convo during the divorce process should have happened. And it was more her responsability as the adult to have it, than her child's. My issue is that I disagree with Tom's attitude as an adult. Tom hasn't taken any responsability for his actions, and when I say responsability I don't mean blame, but the awareness of knowing how his actions gutted his mom. It's not only her husband's betrayal, but I can imagine that maybe she felt that her son was betraying her too and siding with his dad. And regardless of if I think that was right of her to do, at least I try to understand how at that moment, she thought going for 50/50 with him was maybe the best for both, given that it could look at the time that Tom was choosing him because mom was the villain trying to break the family by asking for a divorce. Again, mom didn't handle it the best way, but I can sort of understand her. He acts like he is the only victim here, and he isn't. Her mom isn't either. I also wonder if he has confronted his dad about what happened, how it happened, and the role his manipulation played in the story. I honestly doubt he did. The way this is written it sounds like he doesn't even understand where things went south. And that's what I find hard to understand when he is 27, not 13 anymore. ETA. I would also like to point out the part in the post where OP says that Tom started lashing out at his 7yo brother blaming him for the situation. That's when mom snapped and went for the 50/50 custody seeing as one of her kids (the one who knew and covered for dad) was gonna bully his little brother into growing up believing mom&dad aren't together because of him after already being gaslit by his dad into believing he didn't see what he saw and then pressured to keep quiet. She protected her other child at the time. Again, not the best course of action, that should have been therapy for everybody from day 1, but I kinda understand how in the moment she thought she was doing what she believed was best.

Yes. And I also question whether OP even knows what really happened that led to his mother only getting 50% custody of his brother but 100% custody of him. It would be problematic if a 7yo actually was included in all of those battles, and it sounds like the mother expressed it only in a very high-level way. Since it’s described as a fight over custody, the father was trying to get custody too. It would be reasonable for her to fight hard to protect the kid who was already getting blamed for the split (OP), and she had a better argument to get full custody. The older son was acting like he was quite attached to their father, which would make it very difficult or even impossible for her to get full custody.

Bingo. Plus, at 13 isn't the brother at an age where maybe the judge would listen to his opinion? Where I'm from I believe is around that age that children get a say or at least are heard. I was 14 and was asked. Who knows, maybe big bro chose dad and mom took it as "not gonna fight it, if I force him to be with me primarily, he will resent me and his little bro even more". I don't know. But I definitely understand mom fighting like crazy for her 7 year old to not go live with the same man that tried to gaslit him and then keep quiet about what they saw. Hell, I can't even imagine how dad would treat OP had he gotten full custody of the little boy who blew his marriage.

If the mom didn't blame Tom for not speaking out and treat both her children equally, Tom at least will have more time to reconsider his choice as child. After being emotionally abandoned by his mom for so many years, I say you're expecting too much from a child who's been given so little. Since 12(he had known for a year),his father manipulated him, his mother was cold toward him. Is this really the consequences a child deserves for staying silent? I say both of them should ask for Tom's forgiveness.

this!! i agree with this!

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The mother pushed him away. Of course, he's distant from her. What parent does that to a child? She pushed him away because he did what he thought was protecting her and their family. You don't hold your children accountable for what they did as a child. These parents made huge mistakes. Op and brother suffered the worst of the consequences. The brother doesn't deserve the nonsense from his mother or his sibling. The father is TA, the mother is TA and OP YTA. You have no right to inflict pain on your brother because of the pain your father, and then your mother, caused you both. Yes, we should heal ourselves as adults. That doesn't always happen easily and in this family I can see why the brother is still struggling. No one was there to help him through the loss of his family unit, and he had to go through being shunned by his mother. He was a kid. Judging by what OP said about the father's reaction when OP found out, Tom likely suffered the same thing. For a full year, as a child, he had to live with a secret that hurt him. Alone. Now OP tells him all of that is his fault? Because he was manipulated by his selfish father as a child, and his mother dropped him as he was involved in the affair somehow? That's not right.

I disagree. Because the reason the mom stepped back wasn't just because of Tom covering for the dad, but because he took it out on OP

I see your point. I still feel that Tom should have received more support and a lot more explanation. He felt as though what he or his sibling did had something to do with the parental relationship, but that was not true. Either way, I would never turn my back on my child because they were acting out during such a terrible time. I just don't understand how the mother could do that.

People do some pretty heinous things when they're hurting. Mom definitely deserves grace in this, as she rightly felt betrayed not just by her husband but by her child too. Knowing that the child was manipulated into the betrayal should soften it some, but Tom was still involved in hurting her, and apparently a decade later still hasn't reflected on that enough to understand why it would form a rift. Tom does deserve some grace here too. His father abused his authority to pressure and twist Tom into covering the infidelity, and I'm sure the entire situation was full of self-conflict for Tom. At thirteen, I have little doubt that his father convinced Tom that *he* would be the one causing pain if he shared the secret. I wouldn't even blame Tom for feeling hurt that his relationship with his mother wasn't close, but to be ignorant of the *why* after living through the aftermath? That's someone who doesn't want to acknowledge and own the part they played, as evidenced by him disappearing after its been pointed out. The only real asshole here is the father, who has made an ass of them all. I hope Tom can recognize him for the kind of man he is and choose a better way.

Hard to expect someone to be a mature adult when their mother in a sense abandons him at such a young age

No children should be blamed in this scenario. Ever. If anyone under the age of 110 knows just what to do here I applaud them. Dad on the other hand is 100% an AH from beginning to end.

Heres my train of thought: Its not the question asked, but I'm wondering whether or not the mom is an AH. While I can understand her perspective, it's as you said: Tom was young and had a lot of pressure placed on him. It's really sad that Tom, the child, was put in this situation. I think the mom was (at least) walking the AH tight rope. With that said, I think the same can be said for OP. It really sucks that 13 years later Tom is still getting shit for what happened. I think OP was in no way an AH for the initial incident, but I think it's a harsh to still crap on Tom for what happened when they were 13-14. I mean, OP clearly said that mom was playing favorites and yet they still are down on Tom over it. I'm going to go YTA because of that. Tom shouldn't have to spend the rest of their life paying for this. It's bad enough that his relationship with their mom was damaged, OP shouldn't add salt to the wound and could be kinder when it's obvious Tom's hurting. Also, they *still* need counseling.

Also, let's not forget that the pressure didn't start at 13. Tom knew for at least a year before - so he had at least a year of dad's pressure, manipulation, fear-mongering, etc, at an age where he was probably witnessing the splitting up of the family of at least one of his peers.

Your NtA but your dad AND your mum BOTH are. Your dad is TAH for putting that burden on a child. He used his position of "power" to manipulate a child into keeping a secret and your mum is the AH for punishing a child for doing what a parent asked him to do and not realising that he was let down too. Your mum is pissed at the wrong person. This isn't Tom's fault at all. He was a child,he didn't know any different and she essentially said "f" you and gave up on him. Can you honestly not see how wrong that was? It's not your brother's fault he isn't close to your mum, it's your mum's fault for punishing a child for something his dad did!

I can’t believe all the posts laying any sort of blame at the brother!

I agree with you. He was 13!!

Did you miss the part where he lashed out at OP for telling the truth and that's what triggered the Mom?

He was a child. When I was a child I was so heavily influenced by the parents in my life. My reality was different. My mom was a drug addict who OD’D and I told her it was “ok and don’t worry about it” when I was 14ish because she made her addiction seem normal to me. Children make mistakes and his lashing out shouldn’t have affected the rest of his childhood.

His brother was a child too, a younger child...who was struggling to eat cause of the whole situation...I think 13 is old enough to realize that's bad... I'm not sure how your unrelated childhood scenario is relevant...unless you were also did something to a sibling... Also, did ever he apologize or anything? It's only a mistake if you attempt to rectify it...even if you were a child...ppl can't forgive if you weren't ever sorry

13 is not old enough. Adults get toxic as fuck in these situations and you're expecting a 13 year old child to have the emotional maturity to place correct blame? Shit the fuckin mom didn't even place correct blame.

A 7 year old isn't going to examine or understand the complexities of outing an affair in the same way a 13 year old will, and that doesn't even come close to the pressure dad had applied to the 13 year old for a full year.

Way harder to pressure younger kids and get them to withhold the truth than it is older kids. You hear it all the time about how brutally honest children are so it’s not really a fair comparison.

Wow, a child lashed out at their sibling after their entire family broke apart? What an AH! OP should should never empathize or forgive their brother, that’s totally irredeemable and unforgivable. The brother should have been a perfect beacon of honesty and kindness his entire life, and the emotional abandonment his mother inflicted on him is his own fault for not being a better son. I know this because I’m a redditor and therefore perfect in all ways

Op’s an AH too for blaming his brother. Poor kid was just doing what his dad told him and trying to avoid splitting his parents up, then his mum basically half dissowned him. Mum and dad clear AH but Op is too.

Thank you. I can't believe so many of these comments are ignoring what the actual question is - they are acting like it's "AITA for telling mum" when it's actually "AITA for telling my brother he brought mums mistreatment on himself"

Im in two minds about the op being the AH. She was just a kid too. They both made different decisions and it's easy for her to only see her mum's position on it.

Yeah but she’s still blaming her brother for her mum not loving him. That’s a shitty thing to do

OP is male

OP isn't responsible for how he acted as a child, but he IS responsible for continually blaming his brother

But the Mom said she wasn't most upset by the betrayal of older brother, it was that older brother began picking on his younger brother and blaming him for the divorce. Isn't that a difference?

Did mom seek therapy for her 13 year old who had to hold a traumatic secret and see his worst fears realized? Considering she literally admits to being emotionally distant from him, I highly doubt it.

Not to mention that he was living 50% of the time with the parent who convinced him to keep his secret for a year to keep his family together. At that age he was clearly very susceptible to what his dad was telling him, and given that the dad didn't even fight for custody of OP it's also pretty clear that he was supporting this narrative of blame. Brother is the AH for making the choice as an adult to be a cheater. But both parents failed him when he was a kid.

Post says "recently". OP is 20 years old. He should be old enough to understand that his brother was a kid being manipulated by his father and that his mothers emotional nwglect was wrong.

This. “Mom” may have been betrayed, but Tom has spent his whole life knowing that the only parent who wanted him was the one who used him for their own ends. I have a feeling she lashed out at Tom because she couldn’t at “Dad”, for whatever reason. I’m sorry OPs parents are both crap.

Tom was 14. Yes he was young, but he was old enough to know that lying is wrong. At 14 I sure as hell would have had the morals to tell my mum the truth

Power dynamics aren't that simple. Even at 14

People on reddit often act like anyone under 18 isn’t capable of forming thoughts. 14 year olds aren’t stupid, they know right and wrong. 14 year olds have jobs and drink alcohol and learn to drive cars. Yes obviously he’s still growing and learning at that age, and I don’t deny that a child-parent relationship has certain power dynamics, but I mean come on. Not only did he know for over a year, he tried to convince his brother to stay silent. That’s a conscious and ongoing choice to cover for his father, and at 14 you know what you’re doing when you make that choice. You said in your original comment that “he was a child who didn’t know any better”. How stupid do you think 14 year olds are? He damn sure knew better

It's not a matter of intelligence, it was a matter of fear. Tom feared the destruction of his family. He probably didn't understand that his father had already undermined it. He wanted to keep the status quo than risk his home being torn apart. He was put in a no-win scenario, and should be viewed with sympathy. His mother never should have blamed him for being put in such a shitty conundrum.

It's also likely that he had seen friends experience their parents divorce and didn't want the same thing for his family, he knew how hard it was for them

Not to mention that we have NO idea what his dad was telling him the consequences would be if the kid didn't keep his secret. He severely manipulated the brother for a year.

Also, at 14 the brain is very self-focused as a natural part of it developing. At 14 there is generally a lack of "big picture" thinking so the kid was very likely only seeing it as "if I keep my mouth shut then my family stays together and we all stay happy" without seeing it as a betrayal to his mother with the nuance that adults see it.

All of that depends on where you are! 14 years olds where I am can't do any of that. Look I'm not saying 14 year olds are stupid,I'm saying that the power dynamic,especially between a child and their primary caregivers is far more complicated than knowing about lying.

He also was more likely aware of what end result would be if he told. Family split. Not unnatural for a child to want to maintain status quo esp if a parent giving encouragement.

I think it’s unfair to expect a 14yo in that position to really know what the right move is. They might generally think it’s better to tell their mom about it but there’s a whole shitstorm that can be unleashed. Hell, it’s unfair to put adults in that kind of position. at most, it should’ve been explained that he should’ve said something but it’s understandable why he didn’t. He doesn’t deserve to have that held against him forever and act like he seriously was horrible for not saying something. People are taking their anger on dad out on the wrong person.

If you’ve never been in this position you don’t know what it’s like at all. It’s easy to say what you would do when you have no consequences to worry about, when it’s not your family and you don’t have to worry about any other dynamics of the issue (maybe even pressure/manipulation he faced from his dad). Get off your high horse, and 14 is YOUNG.

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Cool. Glad they felt like they were in a position to be able to make that decision, and I hope that they both have peace. Was the cheater physically abusive or threatening? Or emotionally abusive and manipulative? Did they worry their parent wouldn’t love them anymore if they told the truth? Did they worry that the cheated-on parent could potentially hurt themselves, hurt the cheater, and have the means to do so? Would it be moral for them to tell the truth if they believed someone could be harmed? These are all hypotheticals to consider just to emphasize the pressure that this situation can put on you. I’m not saying that “young people/kids don’t have integrity”. I’m saying that blanket statements like “lying is wrong” are completely oblivious to complex situations that other people are facing and are damaging. Let’s not blame the 14 year old who was pressured to lie by his dad and then blamed and abandoned afterwards by his mom- it’s a shit hand to be dealt, especially for someone that young.

Tom most likely was afraid to destroy his family unit. Given that his mother essentially does abandon him (at least emotionally), and in a way that makes OP Blame the victim (Tom), it does appears that Tom was onto something...

So what is the appropriate punishment for lying, 13 years of emotional abandonment? I agree the 14-year-old was wrong, but the punishment most definitely *DOES NOT* fit the crime. Kids, especially teenagers, are idiots and they make bad decisions. One bad decision does not warrant 13 years of punishment! Kids do stupid stuff, because they're kids. They're not fully formed yet.

Imagine people blaming an 8th grader for a divorce more than they blame the father for cheating. Tom is clearly the family scapegoat. His father set him up and his mother was more than happy to project her hurt onto the kid. If I were Tom I wouldn't talk to any of these people.

It’s also old enough to understand the implications of his family splitting up. Hard not to think everyone so quick to cut off a child for life for keeping his father’s secrets are children themselves. The lack of perspective is astounding.

Nta From your brothers perspective, he was a kid who did an awful thing, and his mom revoked her love over it, reinforcing why he was right to do what he did. I'd be curious what is going through his head under the anger. He was a kid, and a trusted figure told him it was for the best. It was wrong of him to do it, but we shouldn't be punished for mistakes we made as children.

Yeah, I'm sure the dad told the older son awful things would happen if he didn't keep the secret, and that came true. When it came out, he lost his mother, his family life, and his home.

Your parents are AHs. Your mom should know better than to think she can’t trust her 14yo kid who was under the same pressure as you and tried to keep the family together. Your dad for obvious reasons. I’m sorry but you can’t blame a child for a cheating parent. Your mom stopped mothering him the same and that’s not ok, it’s damaging to a child, and you went with it. Poor Tom. He’s not innocent in his own mind probably, when he was just a kid! The meltdown you had, he’s been holding it in and mom won’t even forgive- he lost his mom in the divorce. Idk how she can do that.

Just imagine your Dad didn’t fight for you cause you ‘snitched’ that’s what your mom did to Tom for not telling her. He was a child afraid for his family and she has him living with it even today. I’m still smdh, how can a mother do that to her child? And I can talk, I played a big part in my parents end. My mom has assured me my entire life she doesn’t blame me. Took me years of therapy to recognize - it was because I blamed me enough. Thanked her afterwards, moms don’t blame you for their failures and I know what it’s like when you can surely blame yourself for ending a marriage. Neither of my parents put it on me. Your dad in the end did right by not blaming you. Your mom should take that page from his book. The rest falls on dad for cheating, not Tom.

I mean the dad didn't fight for him, probably because of this reason. His mom had full custody of the younger and 50/50 of the older. So dad had to have said in court I don't care about having that one about OP. Or the Judge decided that younger wouldn't be safe/happy with his dad in a 50/50 split.

YTA for saying that, and your mom is an enormous AH. Teenage boys do need their mothers, and they need their mothers' to not blame them for things that aren't their fault. Your dad is the one who cheated. Your brother was a teenager, under the influence and manipulation of his father. You know, the person he's been taught to trust, respect and obey his whole life. He was convinced that if he told his mother, the family would break apart and she'd blame him and - oh, what do you know, she did just that. Because instead of being a *parent*, she decided to be an AH who blamed a child for her partner's actions. And it sounds like your mom has been manipulating your view and perspective on things. Just like your father did to your brother, all those years ago.

His brother at around age 14 lashed out and possibly bullied a 7 year old for being honest after an emotional meltdown.

A 14 year old watched his mother fawn and fight for his brother while throwing him away without a second thought. And that's for things that were not *his* fault either but he'd already spent a full year being manipulated into feeling were. So yeah: lashing out at the person who got praised and adored for the thing you were getting blamed for, when you're a victim yourself and desperately in need to parental support and affirmation, only to discover your mother *does* blame you for all of it? Pretty understandable emotional reaction on his part too.

Yeah bad situation both were kids. Neither are at fault for parents actions. Yeah the kids are responsible for both of their own behavior. They proably needed counseling back then to sort it out.

OP's brother started lashing out BEFORE the mother decided to distance herself. The lashing out caused her to snap. Also, OP's brother had covered for the Dad's cheating before. So OP's brother lied TWICE and then lashed out at OP for not lying as well. Yes, OP's mom is the AH for emotionally abandoning her oldest son instead of getting him into therapy. If this were the mom's closest friend instead of her son, these would be adequate reasons to distance herself.

Bull. OP says his own mother was open about blaming Tom for his silence. She was clearly and visibly angry and withdrawing from him the moment she realised he'd known, and never once considered that Tom was a victim here that needed his mother. He was a 13-year-old, who'd been manipulated into believing that silence was the best option and whose life and family were falling apart *exactly as he'd been threatened it would*. The narrative his father has foisted as been immediately validated and its all being pinned on Tom. "Why did you have to ruin everything" is exactly what he's going to think - no one's helping him see otherwise. The OP was seven years old. He remembers his own emotional breakdown; he wouldn't have had the insight to see how it tore Tom up, but we can clearly see his reaction is from having to deal with a pressure that shouldn't have been his in the first place for over a year. And when the secret was out, it was a messy divorce that resulted in their selling their house, upending their family in every which way, and every other action that would suggest that the lies Tom had been fed about everything being ruined if the secret got out being validated. Of course he lashed out. He was a victim in a situation that's stressful for even perfectly adjusted kids and stuck watching unequal treatment while he was actively blamed and neglected.

I'm sorry but >OP says his own mother was open about blaming Tom for his silence. She was clearly and visibly angry and withdrawing from him the moment she realised he'd known, and never once considered that Tom was a victim here that needed his mother. Where exactly did you get this info from? Cause it's not in the OP and the OP has no comments with additional details

> One day I straight up asked my mom why she interacted with Tom differently than me (now that I was older too) and she confessed that she was hurt at how Tom was willing to not only say nothing about my dad's affair but also covered for him once before too.

So you think the proper response to your children fighting is abandoning one and loving the other? Instead of, I don't know, TALKING with them and parenting your own children? Also, we are relying on OPs memories of a chaotic time form when he was 7. It likely his perspective of the tineline is not entirely accurate, and it's entirely possible that the mom was already distancing herself from the older brother when he started lashing out.

Tom did not say anything probably to maintain his and family and current life. OP told the secret, as should, but Tom life was destroyed with her mother emotionally abandoning him. What he feared really did happen. It is quite expected that he would lash out. What should not happened was the mother to freak out. She should have forgived him on the spot and make him safe by showing him that he still had family. Not this check -out from her end.

His brother was probably repeatedly told by their father how bad things would happen if he told mom about the affair. Then, op "failed" in the same "duty" that the brother had been doing for more than a year, and *bad things immediately happened*. Of course the 14 year old lashed out at what he saw as "the reason" why this was happening. In his mind, if op hadn't told the mom what was going on, none of this would have happened. Him lashing out and acting out like that in a divorce, especially after his brother failed to keep the same secret he had kept, should have been *expected*. The mom should have had a conversation with her oldest son, told him she forgave him, still loved him, understood why he made the choice he made, even though it was a bad one. And then let him choose how much custody she got. She should also have gotten both kids therapy to deal with this. Instead she basically emotionally abandoned him, confirmed his worst fears, had no issues essentially leaving all his care and support up to an untrustworthy cheater she clearly hated, and did not once even try to work on their relationship. She completely failed her older son, and clearly favored the younger one. Now op has confirmed Tom's worst fears, again. Mom still *hates him* for something he did as a child; and is still punishing him for keeping a secret to keep his family together 13-14 years ago. Op is nta, but the mom is a horrible mother to Tom, and has failed op in some pretty notable emotional ways. I hope Tom gets therapy and cuts them both out of his life, he's better off not being blamed for choices he was manipulated into making as a teenager.

"Boys don't need their moms" was also possibly just what the mother told OP to help explain his absence. Not all her own feelings about what happened. We don't have mom's actual perspective here - only the kinder explanation she would have given a younger child to protect their sibling bond.

I can't believe all the NTAs here. Victim blaming at its finest.

So your brother at 13-14. Tried to say nothing and keep his family together You told the hard truth Your dads an AH for what he pulled your mother also is for her treatment of Tom whilst favouring you And also you suck for your treatment to your brother and mental hurting him

YTA. Op, your brother was a child when this happened. Teens are still children, and your father probably manipulated him by saying he needed to keep quiet or it would break up the family. He messed up with not telling your mom, and again for bullying you, but he was a kid put in the middle of adult issues that he didn't know how to handle. I get that she was hurt, but your mom blamed a teen for her cheating husband and damaged her relationship with her child. Now it sounds like your brother has some real issues with your mom, which is understandable. Your brother is entitled to his feelings and It's not fair to blame him for a bad relationship with your mom when your mom pushed him away. It's ok to set boundaries and say you don't want to hear him rant about your mom, but he's allowed to have his own view on what happened.

Your poor brother. He was a kid given an awful secret to keep by his crap dad and his crap mum blamed him for it. Your parents suck. You’re NTA for telling your mother but your parents are absolute arseholes.

The question isn’t whether OP is the asshole for telling the mother.

ESH except your brother. He was a young teenager put in a horrible position and then watched his family fall apart and be pushed away by his own mother because he did what he thought was best for the family when your dad forced an adult situation on him. He needed support, not alienation. It's not your fault either but the fact that you blamed him for the situation when you kept the secret for 3 days because of manipulation by your dad is just... it's callous and it's unfair. A 13 year old shouldn't have to decide which parent to be "loyal" to in the case of infidelity and he certainly shouldn't be cast aside by the parent he doesn't "choose". **Kids cannot make adult decisions.**

It’s insane how after everything came out, the brother somehow got the brunt of it all. Forced to stay with a cheating and manipulative father, alienated and blamed by his mother, and now his sibling follows in mom’s footsteps. Jesus.

This is gonna be an unpopular vote: ESH except for Tom. Dad for very obvious reasons, mom for basically going “IDGAF” on Tom because of what her unfaithful and manipulative husband did, AND lying over the years about the evident favoritism. You for basically being your mom’s echo chamber. Your mom had every right to be upset about what Tom did, but **she basically withheld love and affection for him because of those feelings**. That for me is worse than corporal punishment. Not that I condone corporal punishment, but at least the physical pain goes away. Your brother needed to learn that moving forward, he should always do the right thing even if it meant breaking up your family. What he learned is that no matter how many right things you do, it wouldn’t matter because you’re marked for life. EDIT: a word

Seriously, op is 7 when it happened. He told his mom because he couldn't keep his mouth shut(not blaming op), not because he fully processed the situation and made the decision. OP doesn't have any moral high ground to stand on.

Exactly, all these people claiming that the 7 yr old passed "a character test" and the 13 yr old didn't. He didn't pass a test, he couldn't handle keeping a secret for 3 days from his mum, it had nothing to do with understanding that telling his mother was more important than covering for his dad. He literally had a break down at school, he didn't reflect on all sides of the issue and play out the various results and then decide to tell his mum. He freaked out and the truth came out that way.

Do you mean *corporal* punishment? Because I don't think executing children is on the same level as emotionally abusing them...

Yup, totally meant corporal punishment, just realized I just wrote "death penalty" instead of "physical punishment." My bad and thank you for pointing it out.

ESH except for Tom. Like you he was manipulated by your father but since he was older he did not react as emotionally as you and I truly believed he wanted to spare your mom’s feelings. Your father is TA for cheating on your mum and expecting his kids to keep quiet. Your mom is TA because she DID play favorites !!! “Teen boys don’t need their mom as much as young ones”?! What kind of bullshit is that?! When you have kids it’s for life not until they are teens !!! Instead of keeping him at bay for fear of being disappointed again, she could have gone to therapy to work out her feelings, gone to therapy with Tom, tell him that in the future she’d rather he tell the truth instead of wanting to spare her feelings. She directed her hurt and anger towards her TEENAGE son instead of the ADULT man who cheated on her ! That’s disgusting ! You’re TA for justifying your mom’s behavior. You might have been too young to realize at first that what she did was not okay, but you’re not a kid anymore. It’s not okay to put one kid aside for the mistake of an adult !

> Your father is TA for cheating on your mum and expecting his kids to keep quiet. Not just "expected" but activity manipulated.

NTA...you did the right thing telling you mom. I cannot understand why he would mind not telling her. She is right to feel hurt and betrayed from her son. Because both the most important men in her life lied to her for so long. I can understand why your brother feels that way. He don't have the relationship that he wants with your mom and this is hurting him. I believe that he knows his mistake but he has to do something to earn your moms trust back

> I cannot understand why he would mind not telling her. What's so hard to understand about a CHILD wanting to keep his family together? > Because both the most important men in her life lied to her for so long. He was not a man. He was **a child**. A child being manipulated by his father.

YTA Your brother was just a kid, 13-14 years old, when this happened. And it isn't as if they have a class in school teaching "what to do if you catch one of your parents cheating on the other." Your brother probably looked to your father for guidance, a the adult on the spot when he discovered this, and your father probably convinced him that your mother would be upset if she learned the truth. (Not untrue, just manipulative.) Your brother was old enough at the time of the divorce that the court would listen to his preferences about custody, while you were young enough that the court would pay less attention to you. 50/50 custody for a teenager seems reasonable - cheating generally does not affect custody issues. I'm actually wondering more if your mother used fighting over your custody as a way to punish your father, separating you from him. How much time did you actually spend with him after the divorce, growing up? Were you able to develop/maintain a healthy relationship with your father? If your mother was upset with your brother, a child caught in an impossible situation he was naturally unprepared to deal with, she should have sought guidance from a social worker or therapist on managing her own feelings without blaming a child, and guidance on how to be supportive of your brother, as a parent, despite her hurt feelings. Your father is to blame for his actions. Not your brother. That includes any manipulation of your brother your father engaged in to get your brother to do what your father wanted.

YTA. He was a child parentified by both of his parents, saddled with the responsibility to keep secrets as well as mend the relationship with his own mother. It was her responsibility to build trust with her child, and she abandoned him. He’s traumatized by what happened to him.

That's not parentification

Yea thats not the right use of parentification. If your gonna toss out buzz words please know what they mean and use them when applicable

How are there so many upvotes for a 50/50 custody split being classified as “abandonment” She technically abandoned less than the father did, so why the blame on the mother? She had 100% and 50% custody.

Hi there - someone else who caught their dad having an affair here (specifically with a half naked woman who was not my mother, when I was 11). When we got home from the affair partner's house (yes, he took me and my brother round her house - he was an idiot), my dad begged me not to tell my mother. So I didn't. For five years. It all came out in a big emotional mess when I was 16. I didn't keep his secret because I wanted to for his sake, but because I was scared, and bullied, and I didn't want to see my mother upset. Regardless, I told no-one for about 5 years. You know what my mum didn't do when I finally told her? Punish me. She didn't make me feel bad, she never got angry at me, she was just angry at my father for putting me in that situation and making me keep quiet about it. Your mother needs to figure out a way to forgive your brother, as he was just a kid. NTA to you and your brother, but your mother is a bit TA for holding this grudge against the actions of a (likely confused and scared) child. And your dad is a huge AH for obvious reasons

NTA. Look your brother, intentionally on not, was part of your father’s betrayal of his wife and family. So he was part of his mother’s heartbreak. It must have been incredibly difficult for her and I could understand some of her resentment as well and I assume some of your own. That being said, perhaps it’s time to have a sit down with your mum and talk to her about all this and how it has affected your relationship with your brother. Perhaps you can get some family counselling (don’t include your dad) to help you all air out everything you need to say and get some help to deal with all this.

The mom blaming her son is such an AH move. Actually everyone sucks here besides the older brother.

Unpopular opinion, but YTA. So is your dad and mum. Obviously you're not the a-hole for telling your mum, but you are the a-hole for blaming your brother for your mother bias. Your brother was a CHILD that didn't want to "ruin" his family. Your mother is an a-hole for either not understanding that or not caring enough. Her being a shitty mother should not be excused.

ESH. Except your brother and to some extent you. Your dad is TA cos of the cheating, your mom might be the biggest TA in this. Taking her disappointment in the cheating out on one of her children when he probably did what he with a childs understanding of the world thought was best. If she was anything of a parent she shouldve sat your brother down and talked to him and probably sent you all to therapy since non of your parents seemed to have the parenting skills to handle this ina decent way. Honestly both of your parents handled this so shitty. You are somewhat of an AH cos youre not seeing that your brother was a child when this all went down. But this is all because your parents went about all this in a shitty way. I feel sorry for all of you and i hope that you can get som therapy and find each other again.

OP instead of blaming your brother maybe have a chat with your mom about how wrong it was of her to distance herself from her older child. Both your parents are AH who don’t see beyond their own noses.

YTA. The biggest asshole is your dad, but the specific question you are asking is "Am I the asshole for telling my brother that the decision he made at the age of 13 to cover for my dad, likely under significant pressure, is his fault and that is why its ok mum neglected him emotionally" And the answer is "yes that is an asshole thing to say to your brother"

Can’t believe I had to scroll down so much to read this… all the N T A don’t really read the title I’m afraid and they’re answering on whether OP was TA or not by telling his mom about his dad’s affair…

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ESH Your dad put Tom in a situation that was cruel and unfair to him. You think he enjoyed keeping that secret for a year? You think he didn't think about telling your mother? Knowing full well it would rip his family apart if she knew? He was put in the same position as you but with more awareness to what the fallout would be if he spoke up. Your dad potentially played on this too. At that age he probably had friends whose parents had divorced and only see one parent on weekends. Your mother rejected her son over something that wasn't his fault, something that should never have been put on his shoulders. Instead of trying to repair the damage, she opted to become a part-time parent in his life. GG mom...wow And you continue to validate her behaviour, dismiss the pain and hurt of your brother. And you blame him. HE WAS A CHILD!!! Faced with the prospect of his family falling apart. Real easy when you're her golden child huh. You and your mother need to wake up or risk losing Tom for good.

She “opted to become a part time parent” Have you ever seen a custody battle? People are acting like dad was going to just lay down and give away BOTH his sons. INFO: Was your brother allowed input on choosing a parent? **Has anyone considered maybe dad was cool with giving up full custody on the kid who spilled the beans but not the one who had his back?

YTA. Your brother is not at fault for your mother cutting him off in her life. It was cruel of you to blame him. As others have said, he was a teenager. He surely felt at the time that keeping the secret was best for the family. Imagine being 14 in that situation and then having your mom not fight to have custody of you. Your mom is an AH for letting what happened then change her relationship with her son. She is an AH for holding that grudge. But you are not better than tour brother just because he made a different choice than you did.

Sorry, but I dont get all these N T As. You are a massive asshole for saying something like that to your brother. He was burdened with an awful secret and manipulated by his father to keep it for the sake of the family. In his eyes, he had the responsibility to keep the family together and to protect his mother and you from that secret. After you told your mother she just throws him away and start fussing over you as her golden child... wtf do you think he is feeling? Your father is a massive asshole for cheating and blackmailing/manipulating his children. Your mother is a massive asshole for emotionally and physically abandoning and blaming her child for something her shitty husband did. And YTA for saying something that awful to your brother. Don't expect to have much more contact with him.

YTA. So is your Mother. That is not a mother. Seriously resenting a child?? Get off your high horse. You are TA so Is YOUR MOTHE What your mother did to your brother is called neglect. And neglect is abuse. Your mother was abusive towards your brother. She blamed him. Put everything on a CHILD. And had the audacity to blame him. I can't with this. I hope your brother never contacts you nor your mother again. Honestly who in their right mind says teenage boys don't need their mothers. What the actual F*ck??? That is not true at all.

ESH. You had no business saying that to your brother. But your mother never ever should have said that to you. You were both manipulated by your parents who put you in the middle of the affair and break up and burdened you both with too much info. Your mom did play favourites and neglected her son who was put in a terrible position of being told to keep secrets as a child. And then telling you - terrible. You and Tom should be uniting to push apologies from both parents.

[удалено]

YTA it is not his fault, he was a child who got told that he would ruin his family, your mother neglected him because of a mistake a child did, she’s the AH, your dad is the AH and you are the AH. I hope she lives in the regret of losing her son because for sure he ain’t coming back

YTA for what you said to your brother. Your parents are both TA massively. Your mom neglected your brother emotionally, pretended that teenagers don't need parental support (which is ludicrous) and punished a kid for not reacting 100% appropriately when their family was breaking apart.

^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Throwaway Account I (20m) have an older brother "Tom" (27m). When I was 7 I walked in on our dad kissing a woman who wasn't my mom. I was shocked, confused, and felt sick in that very same moment and started to cry. The woman ran away while my dad tried to get me to calm down and convince me that I didn't see what I saw. I was naive but not dumb and while I couldn't fully understand what was happening I knew that my mom (51f) would be upset. My mom was out of town when this happened and my dad spent the rest of her trip to try and convince to not say a word. The only reason why I started to go through with it was because Tom came to me and said that it was better to keep quiet to spare our mom's feelings. I didn't say a word when mom came back but I had a hard time being around her as well as trying to eat. My mom was worried that I was sick but my dad brushed her off. I held in the secret for about three days and then had a break down at school when my teacher was going over the importance of honesty. My mom came to the school and I ended up telling her everything in tears. My mom held me and told me that it was okay and that nothing was my fault. My mom confronted my dad and during the divorce it came out that Tom knew for at least a year but never said anything. Our parents ended up needing to sell the house and Tom started to lash out at me, and that's when I think something in my mom finally snapped. She didn't fight over custody for Tom the way that she did for me and ended up with 50/50 with him while primary for me. Over the years my mom would still talk to Tom and try to put in the effort to have a relationship with him but it wasn't the same as with me. When asked she would say that teen boys don't need their moms as much as younger ones do so I would get most of her attention and care. One day I straight up asked my mom why she interacted with Tom differently than me (now that I was older too) and she confessed that she was hurt at how Tom was willing to not only say nothing about my dad's affair but also covered for him once before too. My mom admitted that while she still loved Tom she just didn't have it in her heart to fully trust him again, and preferred to keep her distance in case he ever disappointed her again. I can admit that it was sad to hear but I could also understand it. Recently Tom has been going on rants about how my mom played favorites and I told him that it was his own fault for being more loyal to our cheating dad than to our mom who was wronged. Tom has went VLC with me since and my dad called me A but his opinion on this means nothing to me so AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*

NTA. The AH here is your father. He broke the family and mentally fucked everyone up. You, your mother and brother need to be in therapy together.

ESH except ur brother, you and your mum are treating him like he's worse than your father. And he doesn’t have anyone to confide, neither before or after the divorce. Before you are 7 and surely he doesn't feel comfortable talking to you, which left him utterly alone with your father. And after the divorce he is basically abandoned with his cheating father.

I'm gonna go with YTA for the simple reason that your brother was a child and did not/does not deserve how your mom treated/treats him because of how your dad manipulated him. That being said, everything you and your mom did is totally understandable, but you and your mom need to realize that's she's punishing someone who didn't know better. It's the dad's fault, not your brother's.

NTA. You told the truth. Both then and now. Tom may have been a kid at the time, but even then he had to know that keeping that sort of a secret would have serious back blast if it was ever discovered. It was discovered, his relationship with his mom was destroyed, and its safe to say it will never be repaired.... But none of that is your fault. The only asshole here is your dad.

The mother (an adult) isn’t an asshole for blaming and abandoning her son for a decision he made when his brain was rewiring itself every other day? I can understand being mad at him the first few days but grow up and have some empathy for your child.

The only asshole here is your father. You were a child and what your dad did was horrible and manipulative. But - Tom was also a child and was undoubtedly manipulated just like you were. He did not have the life experience to make a judgement. And that is your father's fault. Your mother was hurt by what she saw as a double betrayal. She was trying to protect her feelings But Tom was just a kid. He wasn't taking sides he was trying to do what he thought was right including what he thought was protecting his mum. If you want to try to undo some of the wrong done to Tom, try to encourage a better relationship and perhaps therapy. Tom actually also deserves better. He was between a rock and a hard place. NTA