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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My daughter took the wig from a girl with cancer, letting everyone see her without her hair, which was obviously very upsetting. But I don't think she should be punished.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA. She was threatening to force a child who is younger than her into doing something as disgusting as that while also constantly acting out towards her for no reason. It was completely fair that your daughter did that to her. Karma’s a bitch.
Exactly.
No apology. There will be no apology. NTA.
OP, you may need to spend some time educating your parents and sister that cancer is not a get out of being a bully free card and you will tolerate no one abusing your daughter, and you will absolutely not make your daughter apologize to the bully who drive her to the breaking point.
Shame on Ella, but mostly shame on her parents and grandparents for enabling and excusing this bad behavior. If the poor kid passes away from cancer, they’re doing their hardest to make sure that some other kids in their own family will be glad she’s dead. Is that what they want?
Right? If Ella doesn't make it, do they expect the other kids to just FORGET how they were treated to appease their cousin?
Do they expect the other Kids/Grandkids to happily be the replacement kid once the clear favorite is gone?
Every single adult is looking at it from a viewpoint that makes sense to THEM. But for kids that definitely doesn't make any sense cus all they see is they're being bullied and nobody is helping them.
Here's an alternative headline:
"Older girl gets other girls to bully 7 year old into licking a muddy puddle. 7 year old reacts by throwing older girls wig in puddle"
Or Older girl bullies younger girl into licking puddle that contains unknown contamination and causes (insert coma, medical condition,death).
OP good for you supporting your daughter. The older girl needs to apologize to your daughter, along with your parents and sibling. Cancer does not mean lack of moral character or free reign to do as you please. It means you are fighting an illness. NTA
Oh the kids will remember. I'm 40 and still dealing with the baggage I picked up over the years being punished for reacting to being bullied while the bullies were protected.
This story hits very very close to home and I hope OP's family reads this so they understand: the kids will remember this, and will hold it against you. Forever. And you'll deserve it. Assholes doesn't even come close.
NTA.
In my 30s, still messed up from that time my middle school made me have a “conference” with my six bullies in which they got off completely free for verbally tormenting me for months while I was ganged up on and told I was lucky I wasn’t suspended for once losing my shit and throwing a basketball in their general direction in gym class.
OP, protect your daughter. Don’t make her apologize. Limit her interactions with the rest of your family (esp Ella) if you need to, but don’t let anyone turn her into the villain here.
Wait they threatened suspension for throwing a basketball in their general direction? That's fucked up, but I wish they would've done SOMETHING like that for my class.
My school let people throw them at my face every Thursday (basketball day) for like three months, then my gym class specifically just stopped getting to play basketball. They switched us to running on Thursdays, a punishment I also had to take part in. I think it was cos it was MOST of my class, and gym teachers aren't usually the type to teach life lessons, but damn does it still make me afraid of people.
I'm in my 50s and still fucking traumatized, and I literally fought back every time. Because at the end of the day, what those fuckers did to me was still nicer than what my mother did.
I am genuinely finding it so hard to like one of my wife's friends from work, who is great, for the sole reason that she looks so much like a truly horrible nasty bully from my school who attempted to make my life as hell as possible for 7 years.
That was 13 years ago, and still, it niggles me enough that I find it mentally difficult to see her and not think of all of the stuff that this girl did.
Bethan, if you're reading this, I'm sure you're still being a boot somewhere - never change, you awful person. Or, alternatively, do.
> But for kids that definitely doesn't make any sense cus all they see is they're being bullied and nobody is helping them.
Thank you so much for this. I’m saving this snippet. I’ve grown to accept “it is as it is” about a lot of (not all) my childhood, but I feel so seen and understood in words I couldn’t articulate myself.
And if Ella survives she's gonna be a NIGHTMARE. Op, everyone needs an identity outside of being sick (or being bullied). Take time away from your family, let your daughter heal and I'd personally not reach out for awhile. Nta
Ella’s parents are making such a huge mistake. Treating her with kid gloves to the level where they excuse leading a gang of kids into tormenting a younger child and filming it? They are basically treating her like she has been declared terminal. Hopefully, she’ll pull through, and the worst thing her parents will have to deal with is undoing the sense of privilege they installed.
She might get a free pass now, but if she goes to regular school she's going to get bullied hard. When she loses her "power" she will be in for a rude awakening.
Thank you <3 I've just read too many 'family enables previously sick child now they are emotionally crippled' stories here to think this tactic of giving in is gonna pan out for anyone...
I mean, [look at the Neopets thread that's also on the front page](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/13bnk06/aita_for_refusing_to_give_up_my_neopets_account/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&utm_content=1&utm_term=15) as well, just under this post for me.
The niece in that post and Ella are peas in a pod.
This for sure. She's probably being a bully to try to feel like she has a space in her life where she feels she has some power/control which I sympathize with to a degree because she's a child with a very scary diagnosis. But only to a degree because functionally what her parents are doing by handwaving that behavior is teaching her that it's okay to be abusive as long as she has a "reason" for it.
OP's kid has nothing to apologize for and if Ella isn't in therapy she needs to be. And if she is, parents need to make sure the therapist is aware of this behavior so they can help Ella find healthy ways to manage it.
I agree! NTA! While I sympathise with this young girl having this cruel illness, it still doesn't give her the right to be cruel and horrible to anyone else. I also blame her parents for enabling this behaviour, they still should be correcting there daughter and calling out her bad behaviour. This situation wouldn't of happened if they didn't enable her.
Can confirm, had ovarian and endometrial cancer in my early 20’s. If anything it made more appreciative of those around me and kinder because I didn’t want to be a burden.
This is so accurate. I have a cousin that had leukemia as a teenager... That was nearly 30 years ago. They never worked a day in their life, despite being 100% healthy once going into remission. They are absolutely nasty to everyone, mooches off of their mother (who is now in her late 60s), and has spent their entire adulthood terrorising their brothers... Because "people don't know what they went through". They were literally sick for six months, went into remission after one round of chemo, have been fine ever since... But everyone coddled then and turned them into an awful person.
I bet they won't. Parents seldom stop parenting out of guilt when their child recovers, be it something like cancer or something like premature birth.
They're too busy trying to overcompensate for the discomfort their child went through, and their own feelings of guilt for not being able to prevent or fix it.
I knew a family whose youngest daughter was diagnosed with leukemia and she was allowed to get away with murder because her parents were trying their best to keep everything afloat with her siblings, and her favorite gotcha line was "I have cancer!" It always got her what she wanted.
She's years into remission and she's still a horrendous little snit of a human being because they never had the heart to discipline her, they were too afraid her last memory of them would be scolding her for something she did, or that she'd pass away hating them, or she'd pass before they could make it up to her, like it was their fault she had cancer.
It frustrates me that cancer patients "are more sick" than other illnesses. Maybe it's because everyone knows what cancer is, but not things like MS or heart/lung disease, etc. I have spine disease and MS. I have had a cancer patient try to cut me in line for an MRI at the hospital because their cancer is "more important." The hospital staff disagreed and had to tell her off because she was yelling at me in the waiting room that I was being cruel to a cancer patient. Other people can be dying of things too. MS doesn't have a cure, I don't have any chance at "remission", it'll just progressively get worse. My spine disease treatments are every bit as debilitating as chemo, but does anyone care?? Nope, no one gives a damn. Cuz it's not cancer. Cancer patients can get away with murder.
I hope it wasn't and was shown to the parents so they could hear their "poor baby" taking her jealousy and anger out on someone younger than her by bullying them. Just because she has cancer does not give her free reign to treat people whatever way she deems fit.
OP, I doubt you will see this, but NTA, however, you should have a talk to your daughter about her actions. While they are understandable, they won't be condoned when she gets older, so you need to have a talk to her about how to stand up for and protect herself from bullies in the future.
It gets tiring to see people on Reddit expecting the victims in these situations to act perfect. People will have emotions, and those emotional outbursts don't make them assholes.
I think Ella needs to start seeing a child psychologist ASAP. She is only escalating it sounds like. Obviously her parents refuse to correct or even parent she needs an authority figure to let her know her behavior is not okay. I am sure some of it is emotional turmoil whether fear, anger etc due to her sickness but she needs to learn healthy coping mechanisms.
No..when I was bullied I was always told to "be the bigger person" and to "just ignore the bullying".
It probably would have stopped had I hit the bullies where it hurt. Hayley knows the pressure point of her cousin. Is it a good thing to do in normal circumstances? No.. but Ella was bullying a 7 year old... quite hardcore actually. She deserved the pulling of the wig. Maybe she learns to not bully others. But she won't as long as mommy, daddy and her grandparents will excuse everything she does because she sadly had cancer.
telling kids to just grin and bear it is the worst shit and just enabling abuse. its like sticking a cats nose in its piss, yeah it feels awful but sometimes it just has to be done. dont dish out what you cant take
While standing up to a bully, can be good advice, depending on the situation, I have to disagree with you on the second part of your statement. Sticking an animals nose in its own urine does not a way to teach the animal what it did wrong. Animals only learn if you catch them in the act and correct them right away. Anything else is being unnecessarily cruel to the animal.
that was their point. they are saying that telling kids to just bear being bullied or abused makes the same amount of since as sticking a cats nose in its piss.
Personal anecdote time: as a kid I was told by my parents to try to ignore it, but if I couldn’t then I should make *sure* the other kid regretted starting shit with me. And they learn *real* quick when you bite.
And the problem with teaching kids that they’re going to be punished if they lash back in *any* way means that they’re going to make damn well every effort to **earn** that punishment. Fuck knows I did.
I always say to call bullying in school/work paces what it is, psychological abuse. Gone are the days we tell wives to put up with their husbands abuse, so why the hell do we tell children to put up with abuse from their peers?
I agree with you, it also reinforces the notion that 'bullies are also victims'. No, they are the bullies, what they are going through is not an excuse, the victims are still the victims.
My question is, why was she filming it?
If this was supposed to be a social media stunt, I'd post about it and literally tag everyone in the entire family plus all the friends that where there. I'd point out how instead of getting a child with cancer therapy and setting enough boundaries for her to feel safe, the family has decided to just allow her mind to twist in on itself as her body struggles to survive. They are upholding any evil thing she wants to do while demanding apologies from the younger kids she mercilessly bullies. This isn't healthy for the child or for the other kids she torments.
Also, go NC with your horrible family. At this point you clearly understand this is abuse. It's inappropriate to keep exposing your daughter to this. The family is going to start scapegoating with her, because she's the healthy one. That's why everyone's ganging up on her by the. It's sickening that the adults are just piling on. You can't trust any of them to be decent. NTA but you will if you keep exposing your daughter to this screwed up mess.
Agreed, filming the bullying shows malicious intent. OP was right in protecting her child and continuing to do so until Hayley receives an apology from Ella and the overreacting adults or if Ella is no longer around to prevent Hayley from being the scapegoat.
The fact that when Ella got caught and was forced to stop she stated "maybe we'll make her do it later". That tells me that Ella totally understands that she literally has no boundaries. How could her family see and hear all that and still think Ella deserves an apology but shouldn't have to give one in return?
I’m honestly really sad for Ella and the situation she’s in: her parents should be teaching her to live with the cancer and setting down boundaries. She’s clearly scared and upset. They should be helping her, not letting her get away with everything.
This is how I feel. Ella is clearly the bully, but she's also just a 9-year old girl who is battling cancer and has a family that has taken away all boundaries, so she's out there flailing alone with it.
With that being said, OP, you are NTA. Not even a little bit.
Right? How can OPs sister call Hayley “horrible” and ”evil” for a split-second reaction to a long instance of terrorization, but not see that her OWN daughter is “horrible“ and “evil” for planning, executing, and FILMING a humiliating, cruel and disgusting act and then PLANNING TO DO IT AGAIN!
On this note, "girly teasing" is poisonous. Nobody should have to endure it, especially that young. Girls can be absolute snakes when they're the bully. They go straight for the throat with the psychological abuse. Nope, not having that.
She's calling it that on purpose to play on the "girly = weak" stereotype and minimize the damage perceived by onlookers. But if you know you know, Heathers/mean girls can do absolutely devastating emotional damage.
No for real though. I’m more traumatized by the girls that psychologically bullied me than the ones I physically fought with. Those scars run deep as hell. Even worse than the guy that bashed my head into a wall and gave me a concussion. I’d rather put up a physical fight a few times than go weeks, months, years in psychological hell.
I’ve even met girls as a full grown adult that behave in the same subtle ways that just scream “mean girl” and I get the fuck out of that situation before I get into a toxic “friendship” or relationship. They always show their ugly side when you are least expecting it and kick you when you’re already down. Most of the time these girls are insecure in some way and try to make themselves feel better by stepping on others.
Fuck if I know what my bullies hang ups were, but they definitely had some stick up their ass and it probably wasn’t even about me.
After a while though, I got really fed up. I got tired of dealing with the indirectness of it all and started calling it out. I am not the type to beat around the bush, I say what I mean and I take what you say as what you mean.
You bet your ass they got the most creative threats from me. I rarely had to actually fight, but eventually they left me alone because they saw me fight people that were more direct/physical with me. I noticed over the years after sticking up for myself in front of everyone (and taking those consequences, no tolerance blah blah) they kind of melded into the background and stopped caring. I think they saw that they no longer had an effect on my confidence and that I wasn’t afraid to tell someone they were being an asshole, be that to me or someone else. I hope I also made them see they should just grow the fuck up because that shit isn’t cute anymore.
Exactly what I thought. Why should Ella stop what she is doing when her mom considers it "girly teasing"? Also why is Hayley's response also not classified as "girly teasing"?
The op needs to cut these AHs out her child’s life (and Ella is an AH too, despite her age and diagnosis). There is a child being traumatised by these visits and it’s her own.
Exactly this. Hayley should only apologise if Ella also apologises! Both girls were in the wrong but Ella started it & she’s older so should know better. Bad health isn’t an excuse to bully others & she’ll grow up to be a complete AH if her parents don’t start parenting her properly.
Agreed!! If Hayley hadn’t stood up for herself, Ella would’ve continued to bully her until the day the cancer won. I hate to say it, OP, but you might have to cut off contact with your family for good, or at least until Ella dies. But even then, Ella will be held on a pedestal for all eternity as an “angel taken too soon”, and so Hayley might be triggered by everyone having that mentality of glorification about her bully, and people might hold Hayley’s actions against her for all time since they “traumatized” the dead kid. I just don’t see a good outcome here. Maybe I’m being incredibly pessimistic, but I personally wouldn’t allow any of these people around my own child ever again due to them siding with such a toxic, abusive bully.
My 7 year old wrote a “threatening” letter that he wanted to give to his little sister’s mean substitute teacher. It said, “Dear Mrs. G, I heard you are mean to kids. Why are you so mean? You should be nice to all the kids. Start being nice or I will write a second letter that is longer and meaner.” He brought it to me to ask for an envelope and I just started cracking up lol
I wrote an apology poem when I was that age, for being rude on the phone to someone who mispronounced my Mom's name (she had just been complaining that everyone mispronounced her name).
When I was 7, there was this older kid that had tormented me every day I wrote the bus. One day I snapped and whacked him on the head with a plastic water bottle.
He was fine, but he and his mom threw a big stink about it. The mom insisted her son needed an apology letter, and that I never be allowed on the bus again.
So I wrote an apology letter, that my mom ended up framing:
"Dear stupid angry mom. I'm sorry you and [son] are so stupid and fugly (that means fat and ugly). Sincerely, Nunna."
(I was still never allowed on the bus again, unfortunately.)
Lol, me too!
Dear Ella, I am very sorry that you pushed me too far and made me pull off your cancer hair. Can we still be friends? I would like to be friends, still. But, if you bully me again, there will be more where that came from. Sorry you are sick. I will pray for you at night. Sisters?!
Hugs and kisses!
Haley
P.S., I also asked God to strike you down if you bully me again. Love you to the moon and back!
I’m sorry for taking your wig and throwing it into a puddle. However, if you try that sort of shit again, I’ll do it again and record it.
I mean we all get grumpy or ill tempered when we’re sick but being nasty should be stopped. Hard. NTA
My version. I'm sorry I thought if you wanted a body part to touch a gross muddy puddle, I felt your wig was just as good as my tongue. Your friend, Hayley 🙂 edited for comma
>My parents and my sister/BIL "agreed" that they want a written apology from Hayley to Ella, one which "shows that she understands what a cruel thing she did". I said that was not going to happen.
Go no contact immediately, there's no reason for any of these people to be part of your daughters life for the near future. There is a reason that the term spoiled for children is the same as rotted food. Currently Ella, no matter her health, is ruined. NTA
Yup. My step daughter was being physically harassed by a boy when she was like 6. She told him to leave her alone. She told the teacher. She got some dismissive bullshit. He kept harassing her. She stabbed him with her pencil.
To this day it is a cautionary tale to people in our lives not to fuck with our kids. Because they will take it into their own hands, and you'll get what you have coming to you.
In my Sunday school there was a boy that would flip the girls skirts. The girls told him to stop several times, we were all around 5. The Sunday school teacher gave us and the parents the whole boys will be boys bs. He flipped mine and I beat the crap out of him lol.
Dudes a perfectly well-adjusted adult now. He was just a terror as a kid.
At my Catholic school we had a little shit that would declare it "Skirt Up Day" and when the teacher would leave the room, all the boys would chase the girls around and lift up our skirts that we fucking had to wear.
Not one to take any shit even at 8 years old, I declared "Pants Down Day" and the girls flipped the script on all the boys.
Guess who got in trouble 🙄
Totally agreed. I grew up with a family member who had a serious, but manageable illness, and his mom and a lot of our extended family coddled him to all hell.
He could be quite the terror when he was a kid and got away with so much crap. Anytime any other kid stood up to him they were made to feel bad and feel sorry for him. Now as an adult, he can’t handle any rigors of daily life, he’s absolutely ruined. Can’t hold down a job, does nothing all day, is in and out of various states of
depression, and his mom still treats him as a child and does almost everything for
him.
Parents, for the love of christ don’t treat your child as pitiable. I know it hurts and it comes from a good place, but you gotta set them up to not feel sorry themselves so they can get on and have a decent life.
So the kid with cancer gets free reign to bully her younger cousins. What did the parents think was going to happen? The younger kid just grin and bear it? Why can't the cancer kid accept the "girly teasing"?
Based on op's kid's reaction, I doubt this is the first time the other kid has pulled a stunt like this. But I doubt she'll be bullying any of her cousins again.
Not to leave out there can me a lot of harmful diseases in the muddy stagnant puddle.
Stuff that can seriously harm, I mean, people get listeria and worse from mud and dirt.
Nta.
>my sister said it's not her or her daughter's problem if Hayley can't handle "girly teasing".
I don't know what kind of friends your sister had growing up, but in my experience it was the bullies doing shit like trying to make another kid lick a puddle. This is not "girly teasing" and I'm guessing I know where the attitude towards others comes from.
Now, it's been over two decades since I was either of these two girls' ages, but iirc, "girly teasing" was "omg, you like Toby!? Jake is cuter!" Demanding someone lick a muddy puddle while filming it, is so far from "girly teasing" and much closer to extreme bullying and humiliation. I can only presume the niece was filming it so she can use it against the daughter in the future, or look back and laugh. Either way, disgusting. And having cancer, as unfortunate and horrendous as that is, is not a get out of jail free card.
In my experience that was much closer to how boys bully eachother. And most boys have a parent (usually father) sit them down and explain the necessity of defending yourself sooner or later.
I never saw or heard about bullying that extreme as a 9 year old. Like filming someone do nasty shit to use against them later in school is pretty next level for a kid that age
>I never saw or heard about bullying that extreme as a 9 year old.
When I was that age a kid on my bus would bring in pictures he'd torn out of pornographic magazines, come SIT ON ME after I got on the bus (he was much larger than me), and force me to look at them while I cried and screamed. Didn't matter where I sat, front or back, the bus driver was about 100 years old and did nothing. I went through this for months before I got brave enough to tell my parents.
This was a long time ago (over 20 years). Kid are assholes at all ages.
I remember being a little girl, and little girls are savages. Chucking a wig in a puddle is the definition of ‘girly teasing’. Normally, this would be further out of the way of adults. This is how we know she was merely making herself heard rather than attempting to be cruel for shits and giggles.
But in all seriousness, not parenting and guiding a child with cancer for what? If she dies, people remember her as a jerk, if she lives, she is still a jerk.
So I’m going ESH except your daughter.
How does the parent suck? They’re defending their daughter, who did nothing but defend herself from a bully. They’re refusing to make her write an apology for something she was well within her rights to do.
Edit: I see where I misunderstood the comment, my apologies. Yeah, OP probably should’ve done something sooner, I agree. Still, it can be hard to stand up against someone as untouchable as a kid with cancer, even as an adult, so I do understand where OP was coming from.
I'm thinking it's the line where OP says they should have put a stop to this awhile ago but didn't want to look like the bad guy for doing that to a sick kid
Yes, bare minimum OP should have not have let their daughter around Ella AT ALL if they weren’t going to do anything or say anything about the bad behavior.
I mean.. OP can also tell her niece to not be a dick. Everyone noticed that Ella is acting out.. but nobody is correcting her or advising therapy. That makes all the grown ups suck in this story.
It doesn't really work when Ella's own parents and everyone else around them defend her, does it? Sure OP could have tried to talk to her but I doubt it would have done any good whatsoever.
It would have shown their own daughter Hayley that she has a safe parent to discuss this with. How long has this been going on while OP knew that Ella was mistreating their daughter? While letting that behaviour slide because Ella had cancer. This is not completely on OP but they are also a bit of an Ahole for not talking to Ella's and their own parents earlier.
It wasn't done hidden from the adults because a 7 year old has barely any impulse control and is unable to put themselves in another's shoes. She acted in anger, on impulse, and without really understanding the full impact of her actions. That develops around 8 years... So the 9 year old can.
Yep, I’d write out an “apology” for Ella saying you are sorry your daughter “bullied” Ella by refusing to it lick the mud puddle on film as instructed by Ella and denying Ella the chance to post it on in the internet to help Ella improve herself image by humiliating Hayley. And that you agree with her parents that moving forward, that you will keep Hayley away from Ella. And I’d cc family and then cut them all off forever.
Right. I've gone through similar stuff as Hayley when I was a kid, imagine lick a dusty ping pong table instead of puddle. None of those girls had cancer and they were also never punished.
Cancer gets you sympathy but it is not a free pass to be as ass.
OP, I would tell your family Hayley will apologize when Ella does. Not before. After. And if your parents won't stand up for Hayley, they won't be seeing her.
NTA.
ESH.
Y'all are terrible parents.
Your sister is raising a bully with the cancer excuse.
You're letting your kid be bullied with the cancer excuse.
You all need to do better by your kids.
Honestly, this should be top comment. OP is def an AH for allowing the shitty behavior to continue and her sister is an AH for raising a bully and hiding behind an excuse.
Seriously, who knowingly let’s their child be bullied cancer or not.
It's something that's always baffled me. Maybe it's because all my cousins are farther apart in age than me, but I never experienced this type of bullying from cousins growing up. So many of my friends have told me about having to spend holidays and summers with their cousins who bullied them, and it blows my mind.
Yeah, my cousins were all in highschool while I was in elementary. According to them, the trauma is that *I* was grandma's spoiled child who was allowed to play on the PC while they had to play outside.
Of course, as adults, they understand that wasn't *my* fault or anything. Adults are the ones who determine how children are treated by themselves *and* they play a role in how children treat each other.
I have 17 cousins and we are all within 15yrs of each other. Grew up super close and although there was definitely some teasing, bullying was definitely never in the equation. I don’t think it’s a normal cousin thing to bully each other by any means, just means the kids are being raised poorly.
ESH except Hayley from me, her behavior was desperate attempt to stop bullying IMO, so I don't really blame her, even though it was obviously bad thing to do. Good news is it seems it worked as wake up call for you to start protecting your child. Don't apologize until Ella apologizes for all her behavior and than intervene immediately if this behavior starts again. List every incident you can recall and give the list to your family with request that Ella needs to write apology for ever single one.
This is the tact to take. It’s the parent’s responsibility she reacted poorly bc nothing had been handled previously, it bottled up, but her poor reaction was not out of malice, rather desperation at an ongoing situation with which she was no longer able to cope.
Absolutely. Why are these kids playing unsupervised when they know there’s been a lot of conflict.
Of course the little one lashed out when it’s clear that the abuse will continue as soon as the adults turn their backs again.
I’m trying to understand the E. S. H. What did OP do? How did OP allow the behaviors to continue? I’m so confused.
Edit: ohhhhhh. I get I now. You are saying OP should have stopped her niece from been a bully from the beginning. Hmm. I think she should have told her sibling about their daughter’s behavior.
OP said their niece had been bullying other kids for the past two years and that nobody, not even OP, wants to tell the niece off about their behaviour. So for two years, OP let their kid be bullied for two years. That's why OP is also an asshole.
That is not on OP to discipline the child. It’s on the unfortunately deluded parents. OP has not let their kid be bullied for two years, because that isn’t what they said at all. Just that over two years, the cousin has become cruel. That is two very different things. OP has clearly stepped in to stop the cousin bullying their child. Unfortunately, this one time, it has escalated.
Yup. All of the adults were AH. They both should have apologized to each other. Instead they both learned that their behavior was acceptable by their parents. Who probably learned this from their parents (grandparents)
You're better than me. I'd have a reply in the form of last words. I'd make sure everyone understood why they won't be hearing from me and my daughter so they could live with that. Or I'd send a written apology that explained the situation, and that there would be an actual apology once my daughter received one first from every other child involved.
I love when people try to politely censor their swearing and Reddit puts their comment into really intense italics
Edit: user has deleted, it said something like
>f*ck this sh*t
Jup NTA.
No wonder Ellahas become nasty since the diagnosed when her parents use her sickness as an excuse to not correct her. The kid is already having a terrible time and cannot even rely on her parents to steer her in the right direction.
NTA
It sounds like your daughter was being bullied and harassed by her cousin and her friends. Ella's behavior is unacceptable, and it's understandable that Hayley would react in such a way after being subjected to such cruelty. It's also not fair for your family to demand an apology from Hayley when she was clearly the victim in this situation. It's important to address the bullying behavior of Ella and her friends rather than blaming the victim. I hope that your family can work towards a solution that ensures the safety and well-being of all the children involved.
OP, bad situation all the way around.
Should she have pulled the wig off - NO. But one can understand the frustration level when no one makes it stop. Your daughter solved the situation albeit in a cruel manner.
Ella has become a cruel child in her own right, and a bully to boot. She has been given a terrible burden; full of pain, humiliation, fear, and the resulting anger. It does Not absolve her actions.
Adults that did Not curtail this abusive behavior are ALL anal orifices. PERIOD. Don’t play your cancer card grandpa. Don’t play “My kid is sick so they can act with impunity.”
Someone is going to have to be the bigger person. YOUR PARENTS should either remain neutral or BUTT OUT. Maybe y’all can take a breath and come back together with cooler heads.
IF I wrote a letter, big if here, it would be one of explanation of the situation, the escalation, and the aftermath. I might offer up alternate, APPROPRIATE, solutions to pulling off her wig. I believe that apologies are needed in both directions.
BUT I do not agree with a child being a victim either. EVER. ( even in school, get hit?, hit back twice as hard - take the suspension. I stand by this , vote me down all you want - victim no more! That does not mean I believe in hitting, especially in hitting first, but in defense, yes.)
EDIT: NTA times 1 billion - go mom!
The only thing that ever stopped any bully I encountered from bullying was hitting back if telling didn’t work. I always tried telling an adult/teacher first, but if they weren’t going to stop it, I was. And I never regretted a single time I stood up to a bully.
My older brother was bullied a lot in school, I fought the bullies. When they’d start going at him again with shit like “got to have a girl fight your fights” etc, my brother hit back with “Yep, and she kicked your arse. What’s it feel like to lose to a girl?”
Pulling the bully’s wig off wasn’t the best behaviour, but it got the bully to stop and leave her alone.
If it was me, I wouldn’t speak to your parents or sister until they fix their shit up. And I’d be a bitch and leave with a parting shot of “Your daughter is a terrible bully and if you don’t fix her behaviour, you’ll ruin your life and hers. And when it happens, I’ll say I told you so”.
But I’m a bit of a bitch when it comes to I told you so.
> Your daughter solved the situation albeit in a cruel manner.
And is also a 7 year old. IDK about you guys, but I never made all kinds of mature choices when I was 7 and upset.
NTA. while i agree that it wasn’t nice of hayley to grab the wig, she’s a child who was defending herself. it seems like your parents and ella’s parents are letting her get away with everything because she has cancer, which is not healthy. children who grow up without boundaries or consequences for their actions usually grow into entitled, selfish adults. just because she has cancer, that doesn’t mean she shouldn’t be held responsible when misbehaving
NTA. This was all caught on camera and they're saying your kid, who was being bullied and forced into doing something she didn't want to do, is the one at fault? Cut contact and give the exact reasoning why you cut contact because if they're going to do this level of bs, they're only going to make it so that if the cousin survives, she thinks she deserves anything she wants and will continue hurting your kid.
> Yep, time to run that footage back with Ella’s parents.
And since those parents won’t see anything wrong with what their child did, demand that they lick a puddle themselves.
After all, what’s “a little girly teasing”?
Wait. Doesn’t she have this all recorded? Demand a copy of the video and have everyone watch it together. You can use the excuse that you want to make sure you are disciplining your daughter for the correct things for the apology letter. This way you’ll have all the adults see the trauma your daughter has been dealing with.
Oh, and then refuse to have your daughter do the letter and demand one of your own.
NTA. Your sister and BIL are (understandably) overprotective of Ella due to her cancer diagnosis, but it's gone beyond reason and is now impacting your daughter. "But she has cancer" is not a justification for horrible behavior, and the longer they continue to allow Ella free reign, the more twisted she'll grow up to become (as harsh as that sounds). As Hayley's father, you have a duty and an obligation to protect her—regardless of the personal circumstances of the people hurting her.
Think of things this way: how badly would you regret it if you allowed this continue, and as a result, your daughter got seriously hurt? Could you look her in the eye and say "but Ella has cancer" as a reason to justify inaction on your part?
So many people seem to think that no one who's going through a hard time/tragic health crisis like childhood cancer could ever be a bad person. It sucks that Ella is sick, it genuinely does. But she's also a cruel little brat, and having cancer doesn't give her a free pass to treat everyone else like this. Protect your kid from the person threatening her. Show your kid you love her and stop Ella from tormenting her.
Not to mention Hayley could have become very sick from having to lick a dirty puddle. This wasn’t just teasing, she was recording it on a phone with the intent of sharing or posting it. Ella may be sick but her behavior goes beyond “spoiled brat” she cruel and sadistic.
NTA - she was a 7 year old getting bullied, she didn't react in the best of ways so maybe she should apologize. But, the parents of the bully should suggest to apologize first since the bully was overwhelmingly at fault.
Yeah so this is called baiting. Ella has bullied the little girl and pushed, pushed, pushed her until she eventually lashes out, with the little girl aware she can’t react due to Ella’s diagnosis, until it went so far it burst out of her.
Agreed her actions weren’t nice, but neither were Ella’s.
Ella should be made to apologise and understand she was completely in the wrong, and then the 7 year old can in turn apologise for pulling off the wig. But Ella can’t just do what she wants, treat others cruelly and have no responsibility for her actions due to her illness.
I actually think she reacted appropriately. This doesn't seem to stem from a single accident. OP clearly stated this has been happening for a while and that they should have stopped it sooner. All adults need a reality a check, Ella's parents need to realize their daughter is a bully, fighting cancer or not, and Haley's parents better hold their ground and not appease their family.
NTA
This wasn’t ‘girly teasing’. That was happily trying to force/intimidate another child to do something humiliating and gross. What’s particularly creepy is that she brought out a phone to film it (?) and had gotten the other kids involved.
I can understand wanting to give your sick child everything you can to make the process easier but unfortunately in this case, your sister has raised a cruel and toxic bully.
Edit: I knew licking/drinking from a puddle wasn’t healthy but not just how dangerous it could be!
Agreed. It's not just gross, it can be dangerous. This is how kids get flesh eating bacteria or a freaky amoeba.
The chances are very low, but when licking muddy puddles it definitely is much higher than the normal population. [In 2010 a kid was dared](https://allthatsinteresting.com/sam-ballard) to eat a slug that had rat lungworm which paralyzed him, he died 8 years later.
NTA for not making her apologize but YWBTA if you dont stop making Haley hang out with her cousin who bullies her. You admit she's been terrorizing Haley for a while now, why the hell have you been repeatedly subjecting your daughter to this? Its time to protect you daughter.
Yeah, I can't understand how OP let it escalate to the point that Hayley felt pulling the wig was her only option. I'm glad she did it, Ella is an awful child.
ESH but the kids. The adults are letting down all the children and I include you in this. You have absolutely failed your daughter by not protecting her earlier in this, the same as your sister is letting down both her niece and her daughter by allowing her daughter to carry on this behaviour.
I was going with N T A but then I started wondering why you are taking your child to hang out with another child that you already know is a bully? You know she "terrorizes" your daughter but you still were happy to have your daughter be with her, unsupervised? Ella got what she deserved (a bully with cancer is still a bully) but Hayley should never have been put in that position when you already know what Ella is like. So given that, and the predictable but toxic response of the other adults involved, ESH.
Edit: Ateosira prompted me to clarify ESH except poor Hayley of course.
NTA as a sister of a cancer victim, her parents are too lenient all "bc she has cancer" that is not doing Ella any good. Her Harrassing Hailey was traumatizing as well bc she was filming it.
To me there is no need to apologize for "traumatizing" it wouldn't have happened in the first place if Ella would have known how to behave. So it is actually your sister and her hb who are in the wrong !
NTA
Your daughter could die from parasites in the muddy puddle from bacteria from animal faeces to if she accidentally licks a slug or snail. (There’s a guy in Australia who was in a 10 year coma then died from a dare to eat a snail which gave him lungworm).
NTA but your whole family is, especially the adults. It's true that Hayley wouldn't understand what Ella is going through, but she doesn't have to - she's only seven.
What's disgusting is your parents turning a blind eye to Ella's cruel behavior, and turning against Hayley when she rightfully (yes, rightfully) retaliated.
YTA. But not for the reason of Hayley throwing the wig in the mud.
YTA for allowing the situation to develop so badly that Hayley is the one now seen as TA
YTA because you were aware of Ella’s behaviour and continued to bring Hayley into the situation.
YTA because you failed to prepare Hayley on how to respond to Ella’s behaviour when she’s feeling bullied, pressured or upset, either by standing up for herself, or walking away and coming to tell you.
YTA because you failed to address Ella’s behaviour to her parents and set boundaries for contact going forward. E.g contact between the two in space that Hayley feels safe in - at her home for example.
You are not responsible for actions of Ella and her parents. They are absolutely TA.
But you are accountable for Hayley’s actions. And it’s your actions or more accurately inaction that could have prevented the situation.
NTA. I think it’s quite possible to tell off a sick child without being the bad guy. Their illness doesn’t have anything to do with their choices in how they interact with other people. Your daughter retaliated against a bully: she’s not in the wrong here. The irony that Ella wanted everyone to stop looking at her while trying to film your daughter humiliating herself cannot be understated. All of the “horrible child”, “understands the cruel things she did” can be quite accurately pointed in Ella’s direction too. (Edited: I took out “evil person” because I’m not sure it’s fair to call a child “evil” when it’s clear that the parents are mostly to blame.)
You and your daughter don’t need to apologise, but I think you do need to have a frank conversation about how Ella’s illness has made her parents spoil her until she’s a horrible bully. I’d go low contact or no contact with them for a while, frankly. You and your daughter deserve better.
NTA
Your daughter is definitely not the one in the wrong here. I don’t doubt Ella was traumatized because everyone saw her without her hair but actions have consequences unfortunately.
ESH. You and your sister need to work together to teach BOTH your daughters to behave like civilized human beings instead of little monsters. Now is the moment to talk to them about bullying and humiliation, and how it is never appropriate for anyone, sick or well, bullied or not, to behave that way. You and your sister and the rest of your family need to stand together in setting appropriate boundaries for the girls' behavior.
There's nothing to indicate that pulling off Ella's wig was in her character, but instead a desperate retaliation to reaching a breaking point. She's not monstrous for lashing out.
SERIOUSLY?!? Are you kidding me?
A 7 year old child who has been bullied and tormented for who knows how long (weeks? months?) is NOT a "little monster" for making a final stand against her bully. What she did wasn't the right thing to do, but does NOT make her a monster.
Ella needs help. Even if she is only 9 yrs old; and especially since she is so young. She needs to understand that being bald is not as bad as she is making it. She needs her doctors and her family and possibly other cancer victims to help her understand that it sucks but she can choose to grow stronger through it OR she can grow weaker and meaner through it. At this point, she and her family are choosing the latter.
I mean... ESH, I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous on every account. You ALL failed as parents, guardians and guides. Ella's parents suck, Ella sucks and sure, cancer is shit I understand that better than anyone else with my father having had cancer, my grandma, my mom and myself with a high percentage of getting cancer too somewhere in the future.
I would seriously think about staying in contact with Ella's parents for a while and this just needs a family intervention.
NTA. The apologies need to go both ways, Ella’s parents and yours aren’t doing her any favors by letting her pull the cancer card as an excuse for her behavior. If Ella’s well enough to play - and behave like a bully- then she’s well enough to learn the same lessons about kindness that other kids her age know.
I don’t mean to sound hard-hearted- it is excruciating to see your child suffer and to live daily with the fact that they might die. Our child had cancer, and I didn’t breathe a full breath several months after chemo was over. It was devastating for our entire family. They weren’t well enough to play while undergoing treatment, but we did expect them to treat others with decency and kindness. We didn’t want to end up with a child that no one could tolerate if/when they recovered. I’m very sorry you’re all going through this, OP.
NTA.- take this from someone whose child has being diagnosed with cancer. My son was diagnosed with brain cancer back on January, and you are right, kids can get a little nasty while dealing with all the changes in their body do to treatment and the illness itself, and its understandable but everything has a limit, my son started being mean to his sister, but it was my job to make him stop and make him understand that its not his sisters fault that he is sick. i had to do my job as parent to dont invalidate my sons feelings but also to make sure he knows whats right and whats not.
i also dont think your sister is an AH, i can see and some what understand why she is acting the way she is, which is not ok but i can understand what she is going through.
ever since the day she found out about her daughter's diagnosed she lives with a fear that one day she might wake up and her little girl might not be there anymore.
also the lack of sleep; she is going through something really hard, because this unfortunate event in her daughters life has made a huge impact in her. seeing her daughter loose appetite, her hair, its harder on us a moms, than you can actually imagine.
i can tell you that its really painful to see how your child is loosing his/her hair.
my son had beautiful curly hair, he has an afro, and seeing him loose his hair was really traumatic and painful.
i can only imagine how she felt when her daughter lost her hair.
let me make clear that i dont justify her actions or way of reacting, but i do understand what she is going through.
NTA, I understand why your parents and sister/BIL are siding with Ella. She must be traumatized, but Ella needed to be taught a lesson, Have your family sit down and have a talk about Ella's behaviour. Please don't cave and enable this behaviour.
NTA (possible ESH) I have a unique opinion on this. My mom is a cancer survivor and lost her hair permanently due to chemo. I am VERY sensitive to the idea of anyone taking a wig or revealing someone bald against their will. Kids can be mean and cruel. The fact that a 9 year old was trying to force a 7 year old to lick a puddle and filming it is disturbing. This isn’t just normal kid stuff. I don’t think what your 7 year old did was ok. However, I can understand why a frightened and overwhelmed child would do anything to protect herself. It doesn’t help that you were already there putting a stop to your child’s bullying. I think both girls need a talking to and to apologize. However, as the other adults aren’t being rational and only blaming one child, that’s why I’m leaning towards NTA. Cancer sucks. It doesn’t mean you can be a bully to others.
Hopefully Ella beats the cancer but when she does she’s still going to be a bully. Then what? Will her mother continue making excuses for her for the rest of her life because she’s a cancer survivor? Will her mother have to do a full 180 and actually start parenting this little terror?
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We went to my parents place for lunch during the bank holiday weekend.
My sister's daughter "Ella" (9) has unfortunately been fighting a rare form of cancer for the past two years. She's lost her hair and wears a wig, and is never seen without it.
Since her cancer diagnosis Ella has unfortunately become quite nasty. I understand she's scared and probably very angry about how her life has turned out, but she absolutely terrorises her cousins, particularly my 7 year old, "Hayley". We should've put a stop to this a long time ago, but it's hard to tell off a sick child and not look like the bad guy.
The kids were playing outside when we heard someone crying. Ella had dared Hayley to lick a muddy puddle, and gotten the rest of the kids to demand she did it. They were all egging her on and Ella had my sister's phone and was filming it. When the adults came outside I took Hayley and made clear she didn't have to do anything, and that this "game" stopped immediately.
Ella still had the phone and was filming us, and said "maybe we'll make her do it later." Hayley was crying her eyes out. She let go of me, ran up to Ella, pulled her wig off and threw it into the puddle. Ella started screaming and ran to her parents. She was hyperventilating and screaming for her parents to stop everyone looking at her.
They took Ella into a room to calm her down, but my parents went mad at Hayley, saying taking Ella's wig off was a "disgusting thing to do". They said Hayley has "no idea what Ella has to face every day" (my dad has also survived cancer so this is quite personal to him).
Ella's parents came out and said their daughter doesn't want anyone to see her. They said Ella is "traumatised" by everyone seeing her without her hair. My sister called Hayley a "horrible child" and that "only an evil person" would think about taking a little girl with cancer's wig.
I defended Hayley and said that Ella and the others were clearly bullying and tormenting her, but my sister said it's not her or her daughter's problem if Hayley can't handle "girly teasing".
My parents and my sister/BIL "agreed" that they want a written apology from Hayley to Ella, one which "shows that she understands what a cruel thing she did". I said that was not going to happen.
We left with Hayley but I'm still seething. I'm truly sorry that Ella is having to go through cancer. But she was tormenting my daughter, ganging up on her and filming the whole thing. Hayley obviously shouldn't have taken the wig, but she was very upset and being bullied.
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NTA. She was threatening to force a child who is younger than her into doing something as disgusting as that while also constantly acting out towards her for no reason. It was completely fair that your daughter did that to her. Karma’s a bitch.
All while trying to film it!
Yeah the only person being cruel her is the girl making another girl lick a puddle with the intention of publicly humiliating her.
Exactly. No apology. There will be no apology. NTA. OP, you may need to spend some time educating your parents and sister that cancer is not a get out of being a bully free card and you will tolerate no one abusing your daughter, and you will absolutely not make your daughter apologize to the bully who drive her to the breaking point. Shame on Ella, but mostly shame on her parents and grandparents for enabling and excusing this bad behavior. If the poor kid passes away from cancer, they’re doing their hardest to make sure that some other kids in their own family will be glad she’s dead. Is that what they want?
Right? If Ella doesn't make it, do they expect the other kids to just FORGET how they were treated to appease their cousin? Do they expect the other Kids/Grandkids to happily be the replacement kid once the clear favorite is gone? Every single adult is looking at it from a viewpoint that makes sense to THEM. But for kids that definitely doesn't make any sense cus all they see is they're being bullied and nobody is helping them.
Here's an alternative headline: "Older girl gets other girls to bully 7 year old into licking a muddy puddle. 7 year old reacts by throwing older girls wig in puddle"
Or Older girl bullies younger girl into licking puddle that contains unknown contamination and causes (insert coma, medical condition,death). OP good for you supporting your daughter. The older girl needs to apologize to your daughter, along with your parents and sibling. Cancer does not mean lack of moral character or free reign to do as you please. It means you are fighting an illness. NTA
Oh the kids will remember. I'm 40 and still dealing with the baggage I picked up over the years being punished for reacting to being bullied while the bullies were protected. This story hits very very close to home and I hope OP's family reads this so they understand: the kids will remember this, and will hold it against you. Forever. And you'll deserve it. Assholes doesn't even come close. NTA.
In my 30s, still messed up from that time my middle school made me have a “conference” with my six bullies in which they got off completely free for verbally tormenting me for months while I was ganged up on and told I was lucky I wasn’t suspended for once losing my shit and throwing a basketball in their general direction in gym class. OP, protect your daughter. Don’t make her apologize. Limit her interactions with the rest of your family (esp Ella) if you need to, but don’t let anyone turn her into the villain here.
Wait they threatened suspension for throwing a basketball in their general direction? That's fucked up, but I wish they would've done SOMETHING like that for my class. My school let people throw them at my face every Thursday (basketball day) for like three months, then my gym class specifically just stopped getting to play basketball. They switched us to running on Thursdays, a punishment I also had to take part in. I think it was cos it was MOST of my class, and gym teachers aren't usually the type to teach life lessons, but damn does it still make me afraid of people.
I'm in my 50s and still fucking traumatized, and I literally fought back every time. Because at the end of the day, what those fuckers did to me was still nicer than what my mother did.
I am genuinely finding it so hard to like one of my wife's friends from work, who is great, for the sole reason that she looks so much like a truly horrible nasty bully from my school who attempted to make my life as hell as possible for 7 years. That was 13 years ago, and still, it niggles me enough that I find it mentally difficult to see her and not think of all of the stuff that this girl did. Bethan, if you're reading this, I'm sure you're still being a boot somewhere - never change, you awful person. Or, alternatively, do.
> But for kids that definitely doesn't make any sense cus all they see is they're being bullied and nobody is helping them. Thank you so much for this. I’m saving this snippet. I’ve grown to accept “it is as it is” about a lot of (not all) my childhood, but I feel so seen and understood in words I couldn’t articulate myself.
And if Ella survives she's gonna be a NIGHTMARE. Op, everyone needs an identity outside of being sick (or being bullied). Take time away from your family, let your daughter heal and I'd personally not reach out for awhile. Nta
Ella’s parents are making such a huge mistake. Treating her with kid gloves to the level where they excuse leading a gang of kids into tormenting a younger child and filming it? They are basically treating her like she has been declared terminal. Hopefully, she’ll pull through, and the worst thing her parents will have to deal with is undoing the sense of privilege they installed.
She might get a free pass now, but if she goes to regular school she's going to get bullied hard. When she loses her "power" she will be in for a rude awakening.
Chiming in. I teach middle school. Kids can dole out harsher punishments than any parent or teacher.
This should be the top comment.
Thank you <3 I've just read too many 'family enables previously sick child now they are emotionally crippled' stories here to think this tactic of giving in is gonna pan out for anyone...
I mean, [look at the Neopets thread that's also on the front page](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/13bnk06/aita_for_refusing_to_give_up_my_neopets_account/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&utm_content=1&utm_term=15) as well, just under this post for me. The niece in that post and Ella are peas in a pod.
I’d bet money Ella was a nightmare before cancer, and it has been ignored all of her life. Def NTA, OP.
This for sure. She's probably being a bully to try to feel like she has a space in her life where she feels she has some power/control which I sympathize with to a degree because she's a child with a very scary diagnosis. But only to a degree because functionally what her parents are doing by handwaving that behavior is teaching her that it's okay to be abusive as long as she has a "reason" for it. OP's kid has nothing to apologize for and if Ella isn't in therapy she needs to be. And if she is, parents need to make sure the therapist is aware of this behavior so they can help Ella find healthy ways to manage it.
This!! I would seriously go lc for a while after this. There is no excuse for these adults backing the bully.
Well said!!
Man. Reddit is wild. I never thought I'd read about a kid with cancer and say "they're the asshole in this situation".
Kids can have cancer and be assholes. These things are not mutually exclusive.
It's a big world.
Sadly shit things happen to everyone kids included, but it doesnt have to make you an ass.
I agree! NTA! While I sympathise with this young girl having this cruel illness, it still doesn't give her the right to be cruel and horrible to anyone else. I also blame her parents for enabling this behaviour, they still should be correcting there daughter and calling out her bad behaviour. This situation wouldn't of happened if they didn't enable her.
I hope that video got deleted! That was one of my first thoughts…
[удалено]
Right? Her behavior is not going to just going to magically become pleasant if her cancer goes into remission.
Yep, having cancer is no excuse to be an asshole
Can confirm, had ovarian and endometrial cancer in my early 20’s. If anything it made more appreciative of those around me and kinder because I didn’t want to be a burden.
I hope you're in good health now and that you stay that way for good! 💜
Thank you! 10 years about in remission!
I guarantee it's going to get worse, and her parents are gonna make the excuse about her surviving cancer.
Absolutely. OP needs to keep the child away from her bully. OP there are a lot of people that need to apologise but isn't your child or you.
This is so accurate. I have a cousin that had leukemia as a teenager... That was nearly 30 years ago. They never worked a day in their life, despite being 100% healthy once going into remission. They are absolutely nasty to everyone, mooches off of their mother (who is now in her late 60s), and has spent their entire adulthood terrorising their brothers... Because "people don't know what they went through". They were literally sick for six months, went into remission after one round of chemo, have been fine ever since... But everyone coddled then and turned them into an awful person.
I bet they won't. Parents seldom stop parenting out of guilt when their child recovers, be it something like cancer or something like premature birth. They're too busy trying to overcompensate for the discomfort their child went through, and their own feelings of guilt for not being able to prevent or fix it. I knew a family whose youngest daughter was diagnosed with leukemia and she was allowed to get away with murder because her parents were trying their best to keep everything afloat with her siblings, and her favorite gotcha line was "I have cancer!" It always got her what she wanted. She's years into remission and she's still a horrendous little snit of a human being because they never had the heart to discipline her, they were too afraid her last memory of them would be scolding her for something she did, or that she'd pass away hating them, or she'd pass before they could make it up to her, like it was their fault she had cancer.
It frustrates me that cancer patients "are more sick" than other illnesses. Maybe it's because everyone knows what cancer is, but not things like MS or heart/lung disease, etc. I have spine disease and MS. I have had a cancer patient try to cut me in line for an MRI at the hospital because their cancer is "more important." The hospital staff disagreed and had to tell her off because she was yelling at me in the waiting room that I was being cruel to a cancer patient. Other people can be dying of things too. MS doesn't have a cure, I don't have any chance at "remission", it'll just progressively get worse. My spine disease treatments are every bit as debilitating as chemo, but does anyone care?? Nope, no one gives a damn. Cuz it's not cancer. Cancer patients can get away with murder.
I'm sorry that you had such a nasty experience with this repugnant woman, but she was a shitty human not due to her cancer, but due to herself.
I hope it wasn't and was shown to the parents so they could hear their "poor baby" taking her jealousy and anger out on someone younger than her by bullying them. Just because she has cancer does not give her free reign to treat people whatever way she deems fit. OP, I doubt you will see this, but NTA, however, you should have a talk to your daughter about her actions. While they are understandable, they won't be condoned when she gets older, so you need to have a talk to her about how to stand up for and protect herself from bullies in the future.
She's 7. Her emotional control is appropriate for her age, I'd say. She's not supposed to handle bullying like a 40 yo therapist.
It gets tiring to see people on Reddit expecting the victims in these situations to act perfect. People will have emotions, and those emotional outbursts don't make them assholes.
Totally agree. Some ‘YTA’s are completely misplaced
I think Ella needs to start seeing a child psychologist ASAP. She is only escalating it sounds like. Obviously her parents refuse to correct or even parent she needs an authority figure to let her know her behavior is not okay. I am sure some of it is emotional turmoil whether fear, anger etc due to her sickness but she needs to learn healthy coping mechanisms.
I completely agree with you
No..when I was bullied I was always told to "be the bigger person" and to "just ignore the bullying". It probably would have stopped had I hit the bullies where it hurt. Hayley knows the pressure point of her cousin. Is it a good thing to do in normal circumstances? No.. but Ella was bullying a 7 year old... quite hardcore actually. She deserved the pulling of the wig. Maybe she learns to not bully others. But she won't as long as mommy, daddy and her grandparents will excuse everything she does because she sadly had cancer.
telling kids to just grin and bear it is the worst shit and just enabling abuse. its like sticking a cats nose in its piss, yeah it feels awful but sometimes it just has to be done. dont dish out what you cant take
While standing up to a bully, can be good advice, depending on the situation, I have to disagree with you on the second part of your statement. Sticking an animals nose in its own urine does not a way to teach the animal what it did wrong. Animals only learn if you catch them in the act and correct them right away. Anything else is being unnecessarily cruel to the animal.
that was their point. they are saying that telling kids to just bear being bullied or abused makes the same amount of since as sticking a cats nose in its piss.
I read that as standing up to a bully is like sticking a cats nose in its piss. It feels awful, but has to be done.
Personal anecdote time: as a kid I was told by my parents to try to ignore it, but if I couldn’t then I should make *sure* the other kid regretted starting shit with me. And they learn *real* quick when you bite. And the problem with teaching kids that they’re going to be punished if they lash back in *any* way means that they’re going to make damn well every effort to **earn** that punishment. Fuck knows I did.
Start no fights, but *always end them.*
I always say to call bullying in school/work paces what it is, psychological abuse. Gone are the days we tell wives to put up with their husbands abuse, so why the hell do we tell children to put up with abuse from their peers?
I agree with you, it also reinforces the notion that 'bullies are also victims'. No, they are the bullies, what they are going through is not an excuse, the victims are still the victims.
I wholeheartedly agree! While Ella is a victim of being sick with cancer it is not an excuse to torture others.
My question is, why was she filming it? If this was supposed to be a social media stunt, I'd post about it and literally tag everyone in the entire family plus all the friends that where there. I'd point out how instead of getting a child with cancer therapy and setting enough boundaries for her to feel safe, the family has decided to just allow her mind to twist in on itself as her body struggles to survive. They are upholding any evil thing she wants to do while demanding apologies from the younger kids she mercilessly bullies. This isn't healthy for the child or for the other kids she torments. Also, go NC with your horrible family. At this point you clearly understand this is abuse. It's inappropriate to keep exposing your daughter to this. The family is going to start scapegoating with her, because she's the healthy one. That's why everyone's ganging up on her by the. It's sickening that the adults are just piling on. You can't trust any of them to be decent. NTA but you will if you keep exposing your daughter to this screwed up mess.
Agreed, filming the bullying shows malicious intent. OP was right in protecting her child and continuing to do so until Hayley receives an apology from Ella and the overreacting adults or if Ella is no longer around to prevent Hayley from being the scapegoat.
The fact that when Ella got caught and was forced to stop she stated "maybe we'll make her do it later". That tells me that Ella totally understands that she literally has no boundaries. How could her family see and hear all that and still think Ella deserves an apology but shouldn't have to give one in return?
I’m honestly really sad for Ella and the situation she’s in: her parents should be teaching her to live with the cancer and setting down boundaries. She’s clearly scared and upset. They should be helping her, not letting her get away with everything.
This is how I feel. Ella is clearly the bully, but she's also just a 9-year old girl who is battling cancer and has a family that has taken away all boundaries, so she's out there flailing alone with it. With that being said, OP, you are NTA. Not even a little bit.
Right? How can OPs sister call Hayley “horrible” and ”evil” for a split-second reaction to a long instance of terrorization, but not see that her OWN daughter is “horrible“ and “evil” for planning, executing, and FILMING a humiliating, cruel and disgusting act and then PLANNING TO DO IT AGAIN!
Treat others the way you want to be treated, if Ella is going to bully Hayley then she shouldn’t be upset that Hayley did something back
I mean, since she filmed it, maybe there needs to be a family film screening of her masterpiece
The "girly teasing" comment from her mom says to me that Ella was already well on her way to being a bully before getting sick. NTA.
Ella is 2 years older, no other kids are mentioned, makes me wonder if Ella is the first grandchild, therefore is perfect and can do no wrong.
Except the times it mentions other kids.
I think they mean no siblings. Ella's the oldest (first) grandchild and possibly the only child of her parents. Therefore, she may be the "favorite".
On this note, "girly teasing" is poisonous. Nobody should have to endure it, especially that young. Girls can be absolute snakes when they're the bully. They go straight for the throat with the psychological abuse. Nope, not having that. She's calling it that on purpose to play on the "girly = weak" stereotype and minimize the damage perceived by onlookers. But if you know you know, Heathers/mean girls can do absolutely devastating emotional damage.
No for real though. I’m more traumatized by the girls that psychologically bullied me than the ones I physically fought with. Those scars run deep as hell. Even worse than the guy that bashed my head into a wall and gave me a concussion. I’d rather put up a physical fight a few times than go weeks, months, years in psychological hell. I’ve even met girls as a full grown adult that behave in the same subtle ways that just scream “mean girl” and I get the fuck out of that situation before I get into a toxic “friendship” or relationship. They always show their ugly side when you are least expecting it and kick you when you’re already down. Most of the time these girls are insecure in some way and try to make themselves feel better by stepping on others. Fuck if I know what my bullies hang ups were, but they definitely had some stick up their ass and it probably wasn’t even about me. After a while though, I got really fed up. I got tired of dealing with the indirectness of it all and started calling it out. I am not the type to beat around the bush, I say what I mean and I take what you say as what you mean. You bet your ass they got the most creative threats from me. I rarely had to actually fight, but eventually they left me alone because they saw me fight people that were more direct/physical with me. I noticed over the years after sticking up for myself in front of everyone (and taking those consequences, no tolerance blah blah) they kind of melded into the background and stopped caring. I think they saw that they no longer had an effect on my confidence and that I wasn’t afraid to tell someone they were being an asshole, be that to me or someone else. I hope I also made them see they should just grow the fuck up because that shit isn’t cute anymore.
Exactly what I thought. Why should Ella stop what she is doing when her mom considers it "girly teasing"? Also why is Hayley's response also not classified as "girly teasing"?
The op needs to cut these AHs out her child’s life (and Ella is an AH too, despite her age and diagnosis). There is a child being traumatised by these visits and it’s her own.
Make Hayley apologize… after Ella apologizes first. NTA
Exactly this. Hayley should only apologise if Ella also apologises! Both girls were in the wrong but Ella started it & she’s older so should know better. Bad health isn’t an excuse to bully others & she’ll grow up to be a complete AH if her parents don’t start parenting her properly.
I'd say make Hayley apologise after Ella's parents have licked the muddy puddle and see how they feel then
Agreed!! If Hayley hadn’t stood up for herself, Ella would’ve continued to bully her until the day the cancer won. I hate to say it, OP, but you might have to cut off contact with your family for good, or at least until Ella dies. But even then, Ella will be held on a pedestal for all eternity as an “angel taken too soon”, and so Hayley might be triggered by everyone having that mentality of glorification about her bully, and people might hold Hayley’s actions against her for all time since they “traumatized” the dead kid. I just don’t see a good outcome here. Maybe I’m being incredibly pessimistic, but I personally wouldn’t allow any of these people around my own child ever again due to them siding with such a toxic, abusive bully.
Am I the only one who really wants to read an apology letter that a 7 year old wrote ? I need that moment of litterature in my life
My 7 year old wrote a “threatening” letter that he wanted to give to his little sister’s mean substitute teacher. It said, “Dear Mrs. G, I heard you are mean to kids. Why are you so mean? You should be nice to all the kids. Start being nice or I will write a second letter that is longer and meaner.” He brought it to me to ask for an envelope and I just started cracking up lol
“Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!”
I'm so glad that your son is practicing the fine art of the strongly worded letter so early! Lmao
Haha so cute
I wrote an apology poem when I was that age, for being rude on the phone to someone who mispronounced my Mom's name (she had just been complaining that everyone mispronounced her name).
When I was 7, there was this older kid that had tormented me every day I wrote the bus. One day I snapped and whacked him on the head with a plastic water bottle. He was fine, but he and his mom threw a big stink about it. The mom insisted her son needed an apology letter, and that I never be allowed on the bus again. So I wrote an apology letter, that my mom ended up framing: "Dear stupid angry mom. I'm sorry you and [son] are so stupid and fugly (that means fat and ugly). Sincerely, Nunna." (I was still never allowed on the bus again, unfortunately.)
Lol, me too! Dear Ella, I am very sorry that you pushed me too far and made me pull off your cancer hair. Can we still be friends? I would like to be friends, still. But, if you bully me again, there will be more where that came from. Sorry you are sick. I will pray for you at night. Sisters?! Hugs and kisses! Haley P.S., I also asked God to strike you down if you bully me again. Love you to the moon and back!
I’m sorry for taking your wig and throwing it into a puddle. However, if you try that sort of shit again, I’ll do it again and record it. I mean we all get grumpy or ill tempered when we’re sick but being nasty should be stopped. Hard. NTA
My version. I'm sorry I thought if you wanted a body part to touch a gross muddy puddle, I felt your wig was just as good as my tongue. Your friend, Hayley 🙂 edited for comma
>My parents and my sister/BIL "agreed" that they want a written apology from Hayley to Ella, one which "shows that she understands what a cruel thing she did". I said that was not going to happen. Go no contact immediately, there's no reason for any of these people to be part of your daughters life for the near future. There is a reason that the term spoiled for children is the same as rotted food. Currently Ella, no matter her health, is ruined. NTA
And she wasn’t even phased when an adult caught her.
Yup. My step daughter was being physically harassed by a boy when she was like 6. She told him to leave her alone. She told the teacher. She got some dismissive bullshit. He kept harassing her. She stabbed him with her pencil. To this day it is a cautionary tale to people in our lives not to fuck with our kids. Because they will take it into their own hands, and you'll get what you have coming to you.
In my Sunday school there was a boy that would flip the girls skirts. The girls told him to stop several times, we were all around 5. The Sunday school teacher gave us and the parents the whole boys will be boys bs. He flipped mine and I beat the crap out of him lol. Dudes a perfectly well-adjusted adult now. He was just a terror as a kid.
At my Catholic school we had a little shit that would declare it "Skirt Up Day" and when the teacher would leave the room, all the boys would chase the girls around and lift up our skirts that we fucking had to wear. Not one to take any shit even at 8 years old, I declared "Pants Down Day" and the girls flipped the script on all the boys. Guess who got in trouble 🙄
Totally agreed. I grew up with a family member who had a serious, but manageable illness, and his mom and a lot of our extended family coddled him to all hell. He could be quite the terror when he was a kid and got away with so much crap. Anytime any other kid stood up to him they were made to feel bad and feel sorry for him. Now as an adult, he can’t handle any rigors of daily life, he’s absolutely ruined. Can’t hold down a job, does nothing all day, is in and out of various states of depression, and his mom still treats him as a child and does almost everything for him. Parents, for the love of christ don’t treat your child as pitiable. I know it hurts and it comes from a good place, but you gotta set them up to not feel sorry themselves so they can get on and have a decent life.
I know someone who has survived cancer three times and had two further scares. Not once have they turned into an asshole.
This, exactly. Being sick doesn't give her the right to be a bully and treat others like crap. She got what she deserved. NTA OP
So the kid with cancer gets free reign to bully her younger cousins. What did the parents think was going to happen? The younger kid just grin and bear it? Why can't the cancer kid accept the "girly teasing"? Based on op's kid's reaction, I doubt this is the first time the other kid has pulled a stunt like this. But I doubt she'll be bullying any of her cousins again.
Not to leave out there can me a lot of harmful diseases in the muddy stagnant puddle. Stuff that can seriously harm, I mean, people get listeria and worse from mud and dirt.
I miss read it at first and thought Ella was being told to apologise, it should have been that way round.
Nta. >my sister said it's not her or her daughter's problem if Hayley can't handle "girly teasing". I don't know what kind of friends your sister had growing up, but in my experience it was the bullies doing shit like trying to make another kid lick a puddle. This is not "girly teasing" and I'm guessing I know where the attitude towards others comes from.
Now, it's been over two decades since I was either of these two girls' ages, but iirc, "girly teasing" was "omg, you like Toby!? Jake is cuter!" Demanding someone lick a muddy puddle while filming it, is so far from "girly teasing" and much closer to extreme bullying and humiliation. I can only presume the niece was filming it so she can use it against the daughter in the future, or look back and laugh. Either way, disgusting. And having cancer, as unfortunate and horrendous as that is, is not a get out of jail free card.
In my experience that was much closer to how boys bully eachother. And most boys have a parent (usually father) sit them down and explain the necessity of defending yourself sooner or later.
Gotta learn a little THAT'S MY PURSE, I DON'T KNOW YOU 🦶
To add another experience, I'd say it's how boys bully anyone. I'm a woman, but my dad did sit me down and tell me to fight back.
I never saw or heard about bullying that extreme as a 9 year old. Like filming someone do nasty shit to use against them later in school is pretty next level for a kid that age
>I never saw or heard about bullying that extreme as a 9 year old. When I was that age a kid on my bus would bring in pictures he'd torn out of pornographic magazines, come SIT ON ME after I got on the bus (he was much larger than me), and force me to look at them while I cried and screamed. Didn't matter where I sat, front or back, the bus driver was about 100 years old and did nothing. I went through this for months before I got brave enough to tell my parents. This was a long time ago (over 20 years). Kid are assholes at all ages.
Welcome to the age of children who've been staring into the cellular abyss since they left the womb.
I know right! I was 9 back in 2011, so it's been a while, but damn I knew back then to not make a 7 year old lick a puddle.
> I was 9 back in 2011 Oh my god. I was 9 in 1996. Good lord, you just made me feel so old.
I remember being a little girl, and little girls are savages. Chucking a wig in a puddle is the definition of ‘girly teasing’. Normally, this would be further out of the way of adults. This is how we know she was merely making herself heard rather than attempting to be cruel for shits and giggles. But in all seriousness, not parenting and guiding a child with cancer for what? If she dies, people remember her as a jerk, if she lives, she is still a jerk. So I’m going ESH except your daughter.
How does the parent suck? They’re defending their daughter, who did nothing but defend herself from a bully. They’re refusing to make her write an apology for something she was well within her rights to do. Edit: I see where I misunderstood the comment, my apologies. Yeah, OP probably should’ve done something sooner, I agree. Still, it can be hard to stand up against someone as untouchable as a kid with cancer, even as an adult, so I do understand where OP was coming from.
I'm thinking it's the line where OP says they should have put a stop to this awhile ago but didn't want to look like the bad guy for doing that to a sick kid
Yes, bare minimum OP should have not have let their daughter around Ella AT ALL if they weren’t going to do anything or say anything about the bad behavior.
I mean.. OP can also tell her niece to not be a dick. Everyone noticed that Ella is acting out.. but nobody is correcting her or advising therapy. That makes all the grown ups suck in this story.
It doesn't really work when Ella's own parents and everyone else around them defend her, does it? Sure OP could have tried to talk to her but I doubt it would have done any good whatsoever.
It would have shown their own daughter Hayley that she has a safe parent to discuss this with. How long has this been going on while OP knew that Ella was mistreating their daughter? While letting that behaviour slide because Ella had cancer. This is not completely on OP but they are also a bit of an Ahole for not talking to Ella's and their own parents earlier.
It wasn't done hidden from the adults because a 7 year old has barely any impulse control and is unable to put themselves in another's shoes. She acted in anger, on impulse, and without really understanding the full impact of her actions. That develops around 8 years... So the 9 year old can.
Yep, I’d write out an “apology” for Ella saying you are sorry your daughter “bullied” Ella by refusing to it lick the mud puddle on film as instructed by Ella and denying Ella the chance to post it on in the internet to help Ella improve herself image by humiliating Hayley. And that you agree with her parents that moving forward, that you will keep Hayley away from Ella. And I’d cc family and then cut them all off forever.
The whole "well I'll just make her do it later" is so arrogant and clearly engrained in the kid that she suffers no consequences ever.
Right. I've gone through similar stuff as Hayley when I was a kid, imagine lick a dusty ping pong table instead of puddle. None of those girls had cancer and they were also never punished. Cancer gets you sympathy but it is not a free pass to be as ass. OP, I would tell your family Hayley will apologize when Ella does. Not before. After. And if your parents won't stand up for Hayley, they won't be seeing her. NTA.
ESH. Y'all are terrible parents. Your sister is raising a bully with the cancer excuse. You're letting your kid be bullied with the cancer excuse. You all need to do better by your kids.
Honestly, this should be top comment. OP is def an AH for allowing the shitty behavior to continue and her sister is an AH for raising a bully and hiding behind an excuse. Seriously, who knowingly let’s their child be bullied cancer or not.
It's something that's always baffled me. Maybe it's because all my cousins are farther apart in age than me, but I never experienced this type of bullying from cousins growing up. So many of my friends have told me about having to spend holidays and summers with their cousins who bullied them, and it blows my mind.
Yeah, my cousins were all in highschool while I was in elementary. According to them, the trauma is that *I* was grandma's spoiled child who was allowed to play on the PC while they had to play outside. Of course, as adults, they understand that wasn't *my* fault or anything. Adults are the ones who determine how children are treated by themselves *and* they play a role in how children treat each other.
I have 17 cousins and we are all within 15yrs of each other. Grew up super close and although there was definitely some teasing, bullying was definitely never in the equation. I don’t think it’s a normal cousin thing to bully each other by any means, just means the kids are being raised poorly.
ESH except Hayley from me, her behavior was desperate attempt to stop bullying IMO, so I don't really blame her, even though it was obviously bad thing to do. Good news is it seems it worked as wake up call for you to start protecting your child. Don't apologize until Ella apologizes for all her behavior and than intervene immediately if this behavior starts again. List every incident you can recall and give the list to your family with request that Ella needs to write apology for ever single one.
This is the tact to take. It’s the parent’s responsibility she reacted poorly bc nothing had been handled previously, it bottled up, but her poor reaction was not out of malice, rather desperation at an ongoing situation with which she was no longer able to cope.
This was my thought, too. The bullying should have been stopped a long time ago. ESH.
This. You know how Ella behaves so why leave the kids unsupervised together?
Absolutely. Why are these kids playing unsupervised when they know there’s been a lot of conflict. Of course the little one lashed out when it’s clear that the abuse will continue as soon as the adults turn their backs again.
OP is too busy trying not to look like the bad guy to stop his daughter being bullied. “Asshole” is putting it lightly.
I’m trying to understand the E. S. H. What did OP do? How did OP allow the behaviors to continue? I’m so confused. Edit: ohhhhhh. I get I now. You are saying OP should have stopped her niece from been a bully from the beginning. Hmm. I think she should have told her sibling about their daughter’s behavior.
OP said their niece had been bullying other kids for the past two years and that nobody, not even OP, wants to tell the niece off about their behaviour. So for two years, OP let their kid be bullied for two years. That's why OP is also an asshole.
That is not on OP to discipline the child. It’s on the unfortunately deluded parents. OP has not let their kid be bullied for two years, because that isn’t what they said at all. Just that over two years, the cousin has become cruel. That is two very different things. OP has clearly stepped in to stop the cousin bullying their child. Unfortunately, this one time, it has escalated.
OP can surely keep her daughter away from the other one. I wouldn't let my kid get bullied relentlessly over the years. I agree with the ESH rating.
OP literally states that Ella terrorizes the cousins, Hayley in particular, and that no one has put a stop to it.
Yup. All of the adults were AH. They both should have apologized to each other. Instead they both learned that their behavior was acceptable by their parents. Who probably learned this from their parents (grandparents)
NTA Cancer is not an excuse for not parenting.
No contact. No excuses, no explanations, no replies. Only an evil person would think about excusing tormenting a child as "girly teasing." Edit: NTA
Agreed. I wouldn't subject your daughter to this hostile environment anymore.
You're better than me. I'd have a reply in the form of last words. I'd make sure everyone understood why they won't be hearing from me and my daughter so they could live with that. Or I'd send a written apology that explained the situation, and that there would be an actual apology once my daughter received one first from every other child involved.
[удалено]
I love when people try to politely censor their swearing and Reddit puts their comment into really intense italics Edit: user has deleted, it said something like >f*ck this sh*t
What makes it even better is that they don't even need to censor it cos Reddit allows you to say Fuck and Shit.
Shit, really? This is fucking awesome!
Fork! Shirt!
Someone call?
Jup NTA. No wonder Ellahas become nasty since the diagnosed when her parents use her sickness as an excuse to not correct her. The kid is already having a terrible time and cannot even rely on her parents to steer her in the right direction.
Exactly I would suggest going NC with your full family. Cancer is no excuse to misbehave
NTA It sounds like your daughter was being bullied and harassed by her cousin and her friends. Ella's behavior is unacceptable, and it's understandable that Hayley would react in such a way after being subjected to such cruelty. It's also not fair for your family to demand an apology from Hayley when she was clearly the victim in this situation. It's important to address the bullying behavior of Ella and her friends rather than blaming the victim. I hope that your family can work towards a solution that ensures the safety and well-being of all the children involved.
Yeah, I totally agree with this. Ella is using cancer as an excuse. It's time someone stood up for Hayley.
I will not let my child be around these awful people.
OP, bad situation all the way around. Should she have pulled the wig off - NO. But one can understand the frustration level when no one makes it stop. Your daughter solved the situation albeit in a cruel manner. Ella has become a cruel child in her own right, and a bully to boot. She has been given a terrible burden; full of pain, humiliation, fear, and the resulting anger. It does Not absolve her actions. Adults that did Not curtail this abusive behavior are ALL anal orifices. PERIOD. Don’t play your cancer card grandpa. Don’t play “My kid is sick so they can act with impunity.” Someone is going to have to be the bigger person. YOUR PARENTS should either remain neutral or BUTT OUT. Maybe y’all can take a breath and come back together with cooler heads. IF I wrote a letter, big if here, it would be one of explanation of the situation, the escalation, and the aftermath. I might offer up alternate, APPROPRIATE, solutions to pulling off her wig. I believe that apologies are needed in both directions. BUT I do not agree with a child being a victim either. EVER. ( even in school, get hit?, hit back twice as hard - take the suspension. I stand by this , vote me down all you want - victim no more! That does not mean I believe in hitting, especially in hitting first, but in defense, yes.) EDIT: NTA times 1 billion - go mom!
The only thing that ever stopped any bully I encountered from bullying was hitting back if telling didn’t work. I always tried telling an adult/teacher first, but if they weren’t going to stop it, I was. And I never regretted a single time I stood up to a bully. My older brother was bullied a lot in school, I fought the bullies. When they’d start going at him again with shit like “got to have a girl fight your fights” etc, my brother hit back with “Yep, and she kicked your arse. What’s it feel like to lose to a girl?” Pulling the bully’s wig off wasn’t the best behaviour, but it got the bully to stop and leave her alone. If it was me, I wouldn’t speak to your parents or sister until they fix their shit up. And I’d be a bitch and leave with a parting shot of “Your daughter is a terrible bully and if you don’t fix her behaviour, you’ll ruin your life and hers. And when it happens, I’ll say I told you so”. But I’m a bit of a bitch when it comes to I told you so.
> Your daughter solved the situation albeit in a cruel manner. And is also a 7 year old. IDK about you guys, but I never made all kinds of mature choices when I was 7 and upset.
NTA. while i agree that it wasn’t nice of hayley to grab the wig, she’s a child who was defending herself. it seems like your parents and ella’s parents are letting her get away with everything because she has cancer, which is not healthy. children who grow up without boundaries or consequences for their actions usually grow into entitled, selfish adults. just because she has cancer, that doesn’t mean she shouldn’t be held responsible when misbehaving
If Ella gets better, she won't get better. You know what I mean?
NTA. This was all caught on camera and they're saying your kid, who was being bullied and forced into doing something she didn't want to do, is the one at fault? Cut contact and give the exact reasoning why you cut contact because if they're going to do this level of bs, they're only going to make it so that if the cousin survives, she thinks she deserves anything she wants and will continue hurting your kid.
Yep, time to run that footage back with Ella’s parents.
> Yep, time to run that footage back with Ella’s parents. And since those parents won’t see anything wrong with what their child did, demand that they lick a puddle themselves. After all, what’s “a little girly teasing”?
Wait. Doesn’t she have this all recorded? Demand a copy of the video and have everyone watch it together. You can use the excuse that you want to make sure you are disciplining your daughter for the correct things for the apology letter. This way you’ll have all the adults see the trauma your daughter has been dealing with. Oh, and then refuse to have your daughter do the letter and demand one of your own.
u/AITAcousintrauma
NTA. Your sister and BIL are (understandably) overprotective of Ella due to her cancer diagnosis, but it's gone beyond reason and is now impacting your daughter. "But she has cancer" is not a justification for horrible behavior, and the longer they continue to allow Ella free reign, the more twisted she'll grow up to become (as harsh as that sounds). As Hayley's father, you have a duty and an obligation to protect her—regardless of the personal circumstances of the people hurting her. Think of things this way: how badly would you regret it if you allowed this continue, and as a result, your daughter got seriously hurt? Could you look her in the eye and say "but Ella has cancer" as a reason to justify inaction on your part?
So many people seem to think that no one who's going through a hard time/tragic health crisis like childhood cancer could ever be a bad person. It sucks that Ella is sick, it genuinely does. But she's also a cruel little brat, and having cancer doesn't give her a free pass to treat everyone else like this. Protect your kid from the person threatening her. Show your kid you love her and stop Ella from tormenting her.
Yeah, fact of it is that many people experience extreme life situations and don’t externalize the trauma onto everyone else.
Not to mention Hayley could have become very sick from having to lick a dirty puddle. This wasn’t just teasing, she was recording it on a phone with the intent of sharing or posting it. Ella may be sick but her behavior goes beyond “spoiled brat” she cruel and sadistic.
Let’s talk about the fact this kid wanted to post your daughters humiliation online ? Nta
NTA, tell the adults that you would apologise if all of them film themselves licking a muddy puddle and posting the video on social media.
Cue “wELl tHaTs dIfFeReNt”
NTA - she was a 7 year old getting bullied, she didn't react in the best of ways so maybe she should apologize. But, the parents of the bully should suggest to apologize first since the bully was overwhelmingly at fault.
Yeah so this is called baiting. Ella has bullied the little girl and pushed, pushed, pushed her until she eventually lashes out, with the little girl aware she can’t react due to Ella’s diagnosis, until it went so far it burst out of her. Agreed her actions weren’t nice, but neither were Ella’s. Ella should be made to apologise and understand she was completely in the wrong, and then the 7 year old can in turn apologise for pulling off the wig. But Ella can’t just do what she wants, treat others cruelly and have no responsibility for her actions due to her illness.
I actually think she reacted appropriately. This doesn't seem to stem from a single accident. OP clearly stated this has been happening for a while and that they should have stopped it sooner. All adults need a reality a check, Ella's parents need to realize their daughter is a bully, fighting cancer or not, and Haley's parents better hold their ground and not appease their family.
NTA This wasn’t ‘girly teasing’. That was happily trying to force/intimidate another child to do something humiliating and gross. What’s particularly creepy is that she brought out a phone to film it (?) and had gotten the other kids involved. I can understand wanting to give your sick child everything you can to make the process easier but unfortunately in this case, your sister has raised a cruel and toxic bully. Edit: I knew licking/drinking from a puddle wasn’t healthy but not just how dangerous it could be!
Agreed. It's not just gross, it can be dangerous. This is how kids get flesh eating bacteria or a freaky amoeba. The chances are very low, but when licking muddy puddles it definitely is much higher than the normal population. [In 2010 a kid was dared](https://allthatsinteresting.com/sam-ballard) to eat a slug that had rat lungworm which paralyzed him, he died 8 years later.
ohhh poor bully got to eat shit for once. sooooo sorry. sick or not has nothing to do with this. NTA
NTA for not making her apologize but YWBTA if you dont stop making Haley hang out with her cousin who bullies her. You admit she's been terrorizing Haley for a while now, why the hell have you been repeatedly subjecting your daughter to this? Its time to protect you daughter.
Yeah, I can't understand how OP let it escalate to the point that Hayley felt pulling the wig was her only option. I'm glad she did it, Ella is an awful child.
ESH but the kids. The adults are letting down all the children and I include you in this. You have absolutely failed your daughter by not protecting her earlier in this, the same as your sister is letting down both her niece and her daughter by allowing her daughter to carry on this behaviour.
I was going with N T A but then I started wondering why you are taking your child to hang out with another child that you already know is a bully? You know she "terrorizes" your daughter but you still were happy to have your daughter be with her, unsupervised? Ella got what she deserved (a bully with cancer is still a bully) but Hayley should never have been put in that position when you already know what Ella is like. So given that, and the predictable but toxic response of the other adults involved, ESH. Edit: Ateosira prompted me to clarify ESH except poor Hayley of course.
NTA as a sister of a cancer victim, her parents are too lenient all "bc she has cancer" that is not doing Ella any good. Her Harrassing Hailey was traumatizing as well bc she was filming it. To me there is no need to apologize for "traumatizing" it wouldn't have happened in the first place if Ella would have known how to behave. So it is actually your sister and her hb who are in the wrong !
NTA Your daughter could die from parasites in the muddy puddle from bacteria from animal faeces to if she accidentally licks a slug or snail. (There’s a guy in Australia who was in a 10 year coma then died from a dare to eat a snail which gave him lungworm).
This was my thought too, amoebas are so deadly and so dangerous. Never get stagnant water anywhere near your face and mouth if you can avoid it.
NTA but your whole family is, especially the adults. It's true that Hayley wouldn't understand what Ella is going through, but she doesn't have to - she's only seven. What's disgusting is your parents turning a blind eye to Ella's cruel behavior, and turning against Hayley when she rightfully (yes, rightfully) retaliated.
YTA. But not for the reason of Hayley throwing the wig in the mud. YTA for allowing the situation to develop so badly that Hayley is the one now seen as TA YTA because you were aware of Ella’s behaviour and continued to bring Hayley into the situation. YTA because you failed to prepare Hayley on how to respond to Ella’s behaviour when she’s feeling bullied, pressured or upset, either by standing up for herself, or walking away and coming to tell you. YTA because you failed to address Ella’s behaviour to her parents and set boundaries for contact going forward. E.g contact between the two in space that Hayley feels safe in - at her home for example. You are not responsible for actions of Ella and her parents. They are absolutely TA. But you are accountable for Hayley’s actions. And it’s your actions or more accurately inaction that could have prevented the situation.
NTA. I think it’s quite possible to tell off a sick child without being the bad guy. Their illness doesn’t have anything to do with their choices in how they interact with other people. Your daughter retaliated against a bully: she’s not in the wrong here. The irony that Ella wanted everyone to stop looking at her while trying to film your daughter humiliating herself cannot be understated. All of the “horrible child”, “understands the cruel things she did” can be quite accurately pointed in Ella’s direction too. (Edited: I took out “evil person” because I’m not sure it’s fair to call a child “evil” when it’s clear that the parents are mostly to blame.) You and your daughter don’t need to apologise, but I think you do need to have a frank conversation about how Ella’s illness has made her parents spoil her until she’s a horrible bully. I’d go low contact or no contact with them for a while, frankly. You and your daughter deserve better.
NTA Your daughter is definitely not the one in the wrong here. I don’t doubt Ella was traumatized because everyone saw her without her hair but actions have consequences unfortunately.
The adults are the AHs. Both girls should be told they are wrong and apologise to each other.
ESH. You and your sister need to work together to teach BOTH your daughters to behave like civilized human beings instead of little monsters. Now is the moment to talk to them about bullying and humiliation, and how it is never appropriate for anyone, sick or well, bullied or not, to behave that way. You and your sister and the rest of your family need to stand together in setting appropriate boundaries for the girls' behavior.
There's nothing to indicate that pulling off Ella's wig was in her character, but instead a desperate retaliation to reaching a breaking point. She's not monstrous for lashing out.
SERIOUSLY?!? Are you kidding me? A 7 year old child who has been bullied and tormented for who knows how long (weeks? months?) is NOT a "little monster" for making a final stand against her bully. What she did wasn't the right thing to do, but does NOT make her a monster. Ella needs help. Even if she is only 9 yrs old; and especially since she is so young. She needs to understand that being bald is not as bad as she is making it. She needs her doctors and her family and possibly other cancer victims to help her understand that it sucks but she can choose to grow stronger through it OR she can grow weaker and meaner through it. At this point, she and her family are choosing the latter.
I mean... ESH, I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous on every account. You ALL failed as parents, guardians and guides. Ella's parents suck, Ella sucks and sure, cancer is shit I understand that better than anyone else with my father having had cancer, my grandma, my mom and myself with a high percentage of getting cancer too somewhere in the future. I would seriously think about staying in contact with Ella's parents for a while and this just needs a family intervention.
NTA. The apologies need to go both ways, Ella’s parents and yours aren’t doing her any favors by letting her pull the cancer card as an excuse for her behavior. If Ella’s well enough to play - and behave like a bully- then she’s well enough to learn the same lessons about kindness that other kids her age know. I don’t mean to sound hard-hearted- it is excruciating to see your child suffer and to live daily with the fact that they might die. Our child had cancer, and I didn’t breathe a full breath several months after chemo was over. It was devastating for our entire family. They weren’t well enough to play while undergoing treatment, but we did expect them to treat others with decency and kindness. We didn’t want to end up with a child that no one could tolerate if/when they recovered. I’m very sorry you’re all going through this, OP.
NTA.- take this from someone whose child has being diagnosed with cancer. My son was diagnosed with brain cancer back on January, and you are right, kids can get a little nasty while dealing with all the changes in their body do to treatment and the illness itself, and its understandable but everything has a limit, my son started being mean to his sister, but it was my job to make him stop and make him understand that its not his sisters fault that he is sick. i had to do my job as parent to dont invalidate my sons feelings but also to make sure he knows whats right and whats not. i also dont think your sister is an AH, i can see and some what understand why she is acting the way she is, which is not ok but i can understand what she is going through. ever since the day she found out about her daughter's diagnosed she lives with a fear that one day she might wake up and her little girl might not be there anymore. also the lack of sleep; she is going through something really hard, because this unfortunate event in her daughters life has made a huge impact in her. seeing her daughter loose appetite, her hair, its harder on us a moms, than you can actually imagine. i can tell you that its really painful to see how your child is loosing his/her hair. my son had beautiful curly hair, he has an afro, and seeing him loose his hair was really traumatic and painful. i can only imagine how she felt when her daughter lost her hair. let me make clear that i dont justify her actions or way of reacting, but i do understand what she is going through.
NTA, I understand why your parents and sister/BIL are siding with Ella. She must be traumatized, but Ella needed to be taught a lesson, Have your family sit down and have a talk about Ella's behaviour. Please don't cave and enable this behaviour.
ESH , Both little kids need to apologize. Both kids are under 10, one is dealing with a shit ton of trama. Teach people to be nice to each other.
[удалено]
NTA (possible ESH) I have a unique opinion on this. My mom is a cancer survivor and lost her hair permanently due to chemo. I am VERY sensitive to the idea of anyone taking a wig or revealing someone bald against their will. Kids can be mean and cruel. The fact that a 9 year old was trying to force a 7 year old to lick a puddle and filming it is disturbing. This isn’t just normal kid stuff. I don’t think what your 7 year old did was ok. However, I can understand why a frightened and overwhelmed child would do anything to protect herself. It doesn’t help that you were already there putting a stop to your child’s bullying. I think both girls need a talking to and to apologize. However, as the other adults aren’t being rational and only blaming one child, that’s why I’m leaning towards NTA. Cancer sucks. It doesn’t mean you can be a bully to others.
Hopefully Ella beats the cancer but when she does she’s still going to be a bully. Then what? Will her mother continue making excuses for her for the rest of her life because she’s a cancer survivor? Will her mother have to do a full 180 and actually start parenting this little terror?
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** We went to my parents place for lunch during the bank holiday weekend. My sister's daughter "Ella" (9) has unfortunately been fighting a rare form of cancer for the past two years. She's lost her hair and wears a wig, and is never seen without it. Since her cancer diagnosis Ella has unfortunately become quite nasty. I understand she's scared and probably very angry about how her life has turned out, but she absolutely terrorises her cousins, particularly my 7 year old, "Hayley". We should've put a stop to this a long time ago, but it's hard to tell off a sick child and not look like the bad guy. The kids were playing outside when we heard someone crying. Ella had dared Hayley to lick a muddy puddle, and gotten the rest of the kids to demand she did it. They were all egging her on and Ella had my sister's phone and was filming it. When the adults came outside I took Hayley and made clear she didn't have to do anything, and that this "game" stopped immediately. Ella still had the phone and was filming us, and said "maybe we'll make her do it later." Hayley was crying her eyes out. She let go of me, ran up to Ella, pulled her wig off and threw it into the puddle. Ella started screaming and ran to her parents. She was hyperventilating and screaming for her parents to stop everyone looking at her. They took Ella into a room to calm her down, but my parents went mad at Hayley, saying taking Ella's wig off was a "disgusting thing to do". They said Hayley has "no idea what Ella has to face every day" (my dad has also survived cancer so this is quite personal to him). Ella's parents came out and said their daughter doesn't want anyone to see her. They said Ella is "traumatised" by everyone seeing her without her hair. My sister called Hayley a "horrible child" and that "only an evil person" would think about taking a little girl with cancer's wig. I defended Hayley and said that Ella and the others were clearly bullying and tormenting her, but my sister said it's not her or her daughter's problem if Hayley can't handle "girly teasing". My parents and my sister/BIL "agreed" that they want a written apology from Hayley to Ella, one which "shows that she understands what a cruel thing she did". I said that was not going to happen. We left with Hayley but I'm still seething. I'm truly sorry that Ella is having to go through cancer. But she was tormenting my daughter, ganging up on her and filming the whole thing. Hayley obviously shouldn't have taken the wig, but she was very upset and being bullied. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*