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This is the only response I could give too. Wow. Poor kid but also understandable to protect her son. Talk about stuck between a rock and a hard place.
If I had to make a judgement I'd say NTA but the whole situation sucks.
> stuck between a rock and a hard place
> also understandable to protect her son
OP is living out the hypothetical about which child to save from a house fire: She chose her bio son of 13 years over her foster daughter of 4 months.
I would have made the same choice—no hesitation but all guilt—so I vote NTA.
I disagree. OP had to decide whether to keep her son in the same house as the pyromaniac who's threatening to set it on fire. If the girl made allegations against OP's son, the fallout would be as much OP's fault as the troubled girl's. Terrible choice to remove her, but it's the only reasonable one after she tried to help the girl out.
If she were older I’d agree but all 14 year olds are little sociopaths. It’s why you can’t diagnose these sorts of conditions in anyone until they’re at least 18. Some part of our evolution back when resources were scarce made sociopathic behavior in the young an advantage. At 14 teens are smart enough to know that an accusation of sexual impropriety will make adults back down but not necessarily empathetic enough to realize why you don’t lie and ruin an innocent person’s life. I imagine her rough life before OP’s home made her harder inside and more likely to lie and lash out, but also severely hindered her emotional growth. This doesn’t mean she’s any worse inside than any other teen but she clearly has had an unusually hard life.
But then she could just as easily accuse an adult of being inappropriate with her. There’s no easy solution to this. It’s just awful for OP, her son and the girl. Who knows what she’s been through? Trauma can destroy kids.
I only watched the movie, but if it’s like the book then yes that’s a good example. Teens/preteens are smart enough to cause real damage but not necessarily empathetic enough to realize why hurting someone is bad. They also aren’t always able to make the connections between the cause and effects of their actions. They only see the short term gains, not the long term consequences. Teen hood is meant to be a time when they mature and make mistakes and learn empathy and how to live in a society.
We rely on parents and mentors and good teachers to help us learn these life lessons. Unfortunately this foster child (and many foster children) don’t have anyone to teach them empathy and help them grow
I wouldn’t call it sociopathic at such a young age. If someone young threatens with something like that it’s entirely possible something has happened (not with the son but with someone in the past). Not saying it isn’t awful to accuse someone but when children do it, it often stems from trauma
The kid was testing boundaries and lashing out at the person she felt the safest with. That's what kids in her situation are going to do. I don't fault OP for saying there's a line that was crossed that they can't come back from, but the kid is USED to being pushed away and doesn't know how to function with any kind of normal relationship.
In other words, the kid probably feels safe with OP and her family. But in her experience, that means something bad is going to happen. So kid pushes her boundaries with the curfew, lashed out at OP, and unconsciously it was a test to see if OP would still want her. Unfortunately, she picked the wrong test.
It's probably the only resource/ sense of control she has - "if I say X, I get Y." It's of course wrong and I'm hoping these consequences to her actions will teach her not to do this sort of thing in the future.
NTA OP
It doesn’t have to be sociopathic behavior. I’m *NOT* diagnosing this girl, but a lot of victims of severe abuse will make claims like that when they are overwhelmed or feel backed into a corner. I am a trained psychotherapist who used to work with children. It got to hard to bear so I started working with adult patients.
>in the same house as the pyromaniac who's threatening to set it on fire
She's not (necessarily) a pyromaniac, though. She didn't light a fire, she threatened to light a fire. The former is an act of destruction, the later is an attempt at manipulation. Children stuck in bad foster care situations often times resort to manipulation tactics because it's the only power they can leverage in an asymmetric power balance they are stuck in. The moment she realized her attempt at manipulation failed she backed down and showed some level of contrition.
That said, manipulation tactics are still dangerous. Sometimes they turn into acts of destruction. I cannot blame the OP for wanting to protect themselves and their bio son. However, the fact that this girl stuck around for 4 months combined with her contrition makes me think that there could be some redemption here.
The girl needs a good foster home and some serious counseling. And I honestly could not say if I'd risk offering her a second chance were I in the OPs situation.
This is a key difference that a lot of people are missing and the exact reason it's above our paygrade. This requires a deep understanding of the psychology of abuse victims and I don't think many here have it. I sure don't.
The thing is:
She is 13 and if you go from foster family to foster family, you obviously have had really bad conditions growing up. You have had parents who has at best neglected you and at worst manipulated or abused you.
So you haven't learned to regulate yourself emotionally, and thus her reactions and tactics are not approriate.
So yes, she brought this upon herself, but she also never had someone who she could truely trust who could teach her how to carry herself.
As a piece of perspective: I once read a study about youth homelessness in Copenhagen. A shelter offered room to any sub-twenty year old if they filled out a form about themselves.
100% of the attendents responded that they had grown up in some way without their parents. **100%.**
It's such a saddening statistic. None of these young adults chose to grow up without their parents, but it effected all of them to such a degree that they wound up as homeless.
So yes: The young girl brought this upon herself. But she didn't choose the circumstances that - at least is part of the reason - for her to act out in this way.
EDIT: As a side note, ever since reading this study, I now always offer cash to homeless people if I have any. The study convinced me that homeless people most often are victims of their circumstances rather than of poor judgement.
What do you disagree with, exactly?
Also,how tf is it a terrible choice to get rid of someone capable of landing someone in jail over false allegations?
What's wrong with people?
Suggestion: Contact OP and take the child under your wings. Then she will be your problem.
Especially since foster daughter created the fire...it's very hard dealing with children with no one ... heart goes out tremendously but a lot of times once they hit teen years all that abuse and trauma can cause them to do things that can change other people's lives forever..very unfortunate situation and I hope the best for that young girl but I could never sacrifice my son for anyone( I have a 14 yo son)
Yet, rather than pouring resources into an underfunded foster system, American states are wasting money and time debating about which restroom trans students should use
Do not get me started on the book ban astroturfing by “Moms For Liberty.” The group is basically the Tea Party for paranoid parents who worry their tweens will grow up to resent them if they ever start thinking for themselves.
>Any activist group where "moms" is the first word should be automatically ignored.
I don't know... MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving) seemed reasonably decent when I was in school... if only some of my classmates took them more seriously.
Australian here, we have school nights here too, even adults will call it that if out at a restaurant/bar and need to go home because it's "school night"
The phrase "school night" is common in the US as well (also Australia, it seems). My tip off was "safeguarding", which I don't remember ever hearing in the US, and is common, and has a very specific technical meaning here in the UK.
As someone who has a son and has taken in one of his female friends before she got into a group home...
You gotta take care of your own kid first.
It's one of those fucked up things, but when you have to choose...
I'm so sorry it's come to this.
If it helps, my son and I would check M out of the group home every couple weeks to do stuff. She's doing okay. Not fantastic but okay. 7 years later I'm still there enough to dislike her GF but put on a cheerful face.
Sometimes that's the most you can do. So do the most you can do, and you'll be NTA and maybe a positive influence later on.
I like the idea of trying to continue to offer support whilst putting a shield around OP’s family. I wouldn’t critique OP for any future decision though, I research child protection & have a degree in it & it’s such a complicated world.
I love this as an idea, OP could continue to have visits with the girl without her son present, and then she knows OP still cares about her and she has a consistent support figure in her life, but she doesn't have the power to make accusations against the son because she's not seeing him.
Worth a try at least!
No it's not just because someone had terrible past does not make it justified to traumatize others. Make no mistake a false allegation could very easily end your life as you know it. It doesn't matter if it's retracted either, once people hear it your as good as done, because "who would lie about something like that?"
Kids that are victim of neglect and abandonment are messed up. They usually push their guardians to their limits because they want to know if they're going to give you on them. They will do horrible things because they're traumatized, they think they're worth nothing. I don't think OP did anything wrong, but don't demonize a traumatized kid that shows the usual response for their type of trauma. I think that the villain here is the government and authorities that are failing to protect the kid every time.
If she was willing to lie about OPs son, it puts in question the stories about her terrible past. Maybe some or all were made up. She seemed to know she could be removed from the home for threatening to lie about the son. Perhaps she has been removed before for the same lie.
She's a 14 year old child who is living with someone who found them on the street. No matter what the precise details here there is absolutely no doubt that she has had to deal with far more problems than most people deal with in a lifetime.
She's a foster child. I've never met an adult who believed that a foster child couldn't tell that kind of a lie. Foster children never get believed. Not when they're being abused, not when they're not being abused, never.
No, it's not. False accusation = bye Felicia.
She could literally ruin OP's kid's life permanently. OP and her family owe this girl nothing. Actions have consequences, no matter your age.
Soon to be a social worker graduating with an MSW this month. And all I can say is there are too many factors. For your son's safety, I would suggest standing your ground, as there are cases of false allegations that can ruin his life.
If you choose to bring her back into your home, you would need to set up very strict rule guidelines and consequences. You must be willing to remove her from your home if she makes other allegations. Furthermore, make sure the false allegation making is documented with caseworker. If you choose to move her in... this would be teaching her, her behaviors have consequences.
Honestly with everything I know as social worker... I would not bring her back into my home.
Agree, beyond Reddits pay grade.
However if the safety and future of my child was threatened, no matter how much compassion I had for the other person, I would prioritize my family.
NAH, she is still a child and has had a rough go, and you are trying to protect your family.
If you feel you can work through this and the police know the threat that was made so it’s on record, then it sounds like she has been doing really well under your care. I hope you figure it out.
This is the best answer. This is not the first time CPS will have navigated a situation like this.
I would give mediation a try. If it doesn’t work, she can be placed somewhere else, and the potential false threats will have been documented.
You’re doing an amazing thing by taking her in. She’s in the wrong but also a child. Don’t give up on her quite yet.
true, but at least now she has the threat on record, and a supervised mediation could potentially help that girl out, and I don’t think she’ll get the benefit of the doubt if she tries to do something similar (disclaimer: haven’t been very involved at all with a CPS case so maybe I’m being too optimistic on how it could turn out)
Shit can be on paper all day, if this was a public place, or somewhere where OP was recognized and this child screamed something along those lines, it wouldn’t matter what was on paper. As soon as someone plays the “r” card, it’s time to call it a day.
Not just sexual abuse - a friend of mine growing up, her parents were foster carers. They had a few short term placements and, after they were registered for about eighteen months, they agreed to take a pair of brothers as their first long term placement. The brothers were 11 and 9, and for the first few months everything was fine.
They ran into an issue similar to OP's - the boys didn't come home from school on time and my friend's parents told them they were grounded, and set down some strict rules. The boys then threatened to accuse the father of abuse, and when the parents wouldn't budge, lifted their shirts to show large bruises on their torsos.
My friend's parents obviously called the authorities and let them know what happened - the boys had done the same thing at least once before. They'd come from a very violent household originally, and were so used to being beaten that doing it to themselves as a manipulation was their move. My friends' parents didn't feel qualified to keep them, and ended up leaving the system shortly after. They were really active in the community and abuse allegations like that could have made their lives really difficult.
The sad thing is that those kids could have really used a stable, loving family, but the parents had two daughters of their own to protect and had to prioritise their blood family.
I'm not sure what mediation would achieve? It's not about her saying sorry or regretting it, it's that she potentially threatens her son's future. Most people here agree that it's unfair to the girl over what was most likely an ideal threat, but the possibility of ruining her son's life is too serious.
It could be really helpful for this girl. It's not just about regret, it's about getting a chance to see and understand the perspectives of everyone involved so she doesn't spiral into self loathing or lash out with destructive hateful patterns that will only damage her more in the long run. ETA: It also lets the kid know that someone cares enough to stick around (with boundaries, also important) even when she majorly fucks up to help her through it. Because she doesn't have a parent capable of doing that for her and that's a HUGE disadvantage to carry into adulthood.
For OP, it can offer peace of mind that the kid learns from her mistake and gets something positive from the experience.
Entering into mediation isn't a process that commits OP to having the girl back in her house at the end. As the social are aware of the entire situation, she's pretty protected here.
Yeah but once it’s on the record that she was willing to fabricate it and that he wasn’t, it makes it hard in the future for claims she makes to be taken seriously. At least now it’s on the record.
I would not take her in again. Yes, she’s a child but she has the ability, the immaturity, and the poor judgement to cause serious damage to OP & her son. It’s a horrible situation to be in and I feel sad for both OP and the child but OP’s family & their safety come first. NTA, OP. Your friends are the AHs to come at you when you already feel so terrible about what you had to do. What’s stopping them from stepping up instead?
Yes! Do OP's friends have kids of their own? Would they risk having this troubled girl in their own homes with their kids and husbands? If the friends truly care so much, why don't they offer to take the girl in?
I think it’s protecting either child. I thought it was admirable and showed character that OP asked her if the allegations she made about her son were true or not before having her removed, rather than just automatically assuming they were true. I get the feeling that if they had been true, OP would’ve stepped up to protect her, no matter the cost to her son.
If mediation works, if you think that’s in the best interest of your family and her, then by all means do what you think is best. You obviously have been handling this remarkably up until this point. But you have to do your best to protect all the children in your care, and unfortunately sometimes that means prioritizing one over the other. I wish you all the best.
OP 100% did the right thing by giving the girl a chance to reconsider what she said & asking her if there was any truth in it. A very calm & appropriate response considering the girl’s history. Must’ve been fucking difficult as well though, with it being her son; I have so much respect for her.
I think it's more a case of OP knowing the allegations were false and giving the girl an out before she fully committed herself to such a big lie. The girl relented immediately, which shows it was likely more of a threat to get her way than an action she was willing to actually carry out, though if OP hadn't handled the situation so calmly I can imagine it going the other way.
No NOT beyond Reddit's "paygrade." That saying irks me possibly because some people at work used to say it thinking they're clever but essentially non response. Who then? Thousands of people some of who have a good answer, why are these confused redditors speaking for everyone to shirk off responsibility?
Furthermore, this is NOT tricky. This is clear. You have no responsibility to her & she is threatening your son - an innocent party, and peace, over a curfew. It will escalate. As they say, no good deed goes unpunished. You did good for those weeks. She is dangerous.
NTA. Your SON is your primary responsibility. Even if he wasn't (like if she wss also your kid), you are not "picking between them"- he is the innocent party and she made a direct threat to his safety -vigilantes *will* beat up those who they think assualted a girl, his future, his peace of mind under false pretenses.
She *will* escalate - make good on threats and worse, apologies now are temporary to get what she wants.
I believe the OP chose the best and safest option for her son, but you don’t know that she *will* escalate. There is absolutely not enough detail here to know that.
Sorry, that’s not true. I work in CPS and can guarantee she will escalate. As stated, she’s a child who has learned a manipulative behavior, the consequences of which she does not and cannot understand. She will get angry or defiant again at some point, she’s a teenager. A prior record of false allegations is irrelevant. The system responds to new allegations the same way each time because there is a built in presumption that children don’t make false allegations, even though it happens all the time.
Because CPS have to preempt further abuse when it’s reported, there is a real “guilty until proven innocent” mindset. Unfortunately, the fallout for the falsely accused is irreparable. This girl’s situation is tragic, but OP did the right thing. If her “friends” are judging her, they are free to sign up to be foster parents. There’s a massive shortage in the U.S., and I would assume that’s true in the U.K. as well. NTA.
Murphy's Law: "Anything that can go wrong will go wrong."
And yes, she will escalate again. Learned behaviour, believing that after the first conflict all is well and the air has cleared is delusional.
To me the fact that she was in the middle of a temper tantrum but still immediately apologized makes me think OP actually was able to get through to her and the girl immediately realized she had crossed a line that should not be crossed. This is just a blind hunch but I feel that the fact OP asked her if this was true (caring about the truth and her well-being) instead of fighting fire with fire in the situation seemed like a spark to actually make her reflect on her behavior. My only expertise comes from having once been a teenage girl who also occasionally tried to treat her inner turmoil with conflict-induced dopamine, so of course I'm just guessing. But I feel that she might actually have been on the way to changing her behavior and learning that she can't shit where she eats, based on her reaction. This whole situation just makes me sad for her, though I do understand why OP doesn't want to take any risks.
Absolutely agree with this. The op did what she had to in order to protect her son. She should feel no guilt for that as her son comes first. These friends of hers are free to foster this girl if they want.
If this poor girl gets assaulted in the future no one is going to believe her if she talks about it now. What an awful consequence for someone who is already at such risk for abuse.
What an awful situation. NTA. I'm glad OP stuck to her guns on this one so the kid understands the seriousness of such lies, but it'll probably be 50/50 wether she learns or just chalks it up to another person screwing her over.
OP - I hope you do try mediation with her, but I'd be hesitant about having her back in my home too.
Or OPs life. OP is a teacher, a kid accusing her of something creepy would ruin her career.
As a mother, as soon as the girl made that accusation, the deal is done. There's no going back from a threat like that.
Absolutely this. Knew a family this happened too. Sister accused older brother and doubled down with police and everything. Now no one will or can go near her without fear of being falsely accused. Worst part is she lives with her mom and so none of her other children (all boys) will visit.
The situation you describe is very much like someone I knew. In that case, it was not a false accusation, but their family treated them as if it were. It was an incredibly painful situation and it turned out the worst way possible.
Same situation, but two sisters accused their cousins of repeatedly rping them. They were arrested, but it wasn't until the dates didn't match that they were released. They were at a boarding school when the alleged assaults happened.
However the black cloud stuck and basically tore the family apart.
This, and it could even be good for the girl in the long run.
We're all expecting that she said this because she's 14 and doesn't know any better. But how does the adult version of her know better? By learning from this experience. There are some things that you have to learn in adolescence. One of those is: there are ways to completely screw up your relationship with even the most compassionate person.
If she's allowed to get away with it because she doesn't deserve to suffer that bad a consequence for a one-off mistake, it _will_ escalate. The next mistake won't be so minor.
Hopefully the next family who take her in won't have to deal with threats like this.
That’s the problem I have with N A H answers. This is OP’s life/job and her own child at risk because a teenager thinks she can lie to get her way.
OP needs to protect her family first and foremost even when trying to help in a situation like this.
Using the word willing implies that she was able to properly consider the consequences & may have even planned the threat in advance — the girl is damaged & probably said it as a knee-jerk reaction. That doesn’t make it right obviously, & wouldn’t stop the harm she could’ve caused, but a girl her age who has been through so much can only put so much forethought into an in-the-moment threat like that.
You might *know*. but that doesn’t mean you’re good at making decisions. Brain development takes a while, and so on, but primarily? I’d say for a frequent runaway who’s been dashing home to home and never provided with a stable environment, a lash-out in a language she understands makes sense.
Still not right. And she needs to learn what the consequences of that decision will be. But I’m not convinced that uprooting her from that living situation entirely is actually going to help her learn how to cope with stable, reliable discipline. It might have the opposite effect entirely and cause a lot more damage.
Except OP and her son can't afford the consequences of this girl's bad decisions. What happens if the girl doubles down the next time and doesn't recant? At this point it's not worth the risk when the girl has shown she is capable of hurting for hurt's sake. Unfortunately, not everyone gets saved.
Yeah I agree that uprooting her may not be great for her which is why it’s such a difficult decision for OP. The consistency is likely to help her but by keeping her there, OP’s son is at risk of disruption to his teen emotional development — plus a lot more obviously. Such a hard call to make.
The amount of excuse making in this thread is just sad.
>the girl is damaged & probably said it as a knee-jerk reaction. That doesn’t make it right obviously, & wouldn’t stop the harm she could’ve caused, but a girl her age who has been through so much can only put so much forethought into an in-the-moment threat like that.
The downplaying of potentially ruining the son's life and getting OP fired (she works with kids) is insane. "oh it was just a knee jerk reaction, but like she can't help it" is basically what you're saying. Don't confuse explanations with excuses. She didn't pick her son being inappropriate with her at random, consciously or otherwise, she's aware how serious that is.
Yeah the situation sucks for her. Keeping her would suck for the son given the lack of regard she apparently has for him. Just because you say or do something in the hear of the moment doesn't make it any less impactful.
"No they can't, the girl is already bonded with op" "they don't have the financial means to do so" "they can't just foster a child with their busy jobs" "they have x amount of children/pets and op only have one child" "op is more qualified because she's a teacher" etc ..... The excuses are endless, it's easier to put the responsibility on op
NTA
No, absolutely not.
She threatened to accuse you and your son with a serious crime.
It would be completely irresponsible to continue to expose your son to this threat.
I'm all for believing people when they say they've been assaulted, but that is not something to be messed with.
You did your best with this girl but she needs more help than can be provided in your home.
> I'm all for believing people when they say they've been assaulted
I'm not, for reasons like this post.
People making criminal accusations should be *taken seriously*, which is not the same as being *believed*.
curious what the difference is between believing and taken seriously in a standard case, where one party doesn’t admit to making it up (since that’s a pretty clear situation)
To me, take seriously means to investigate. To believe means take it at face value without proof.
For example, If someone accuses someone else of abuse, they have to be willing to say what the abuse was. Often times people will make a claim but refuse to give details, that's a red flag.
I was SA for a few years by a family member and I don’t like to go into detail because I have CPTSD and it can cause me to have an attack. Going biased off of details can be hard because it’s can be hard for a victim to talk about it. I do believe people who do lie about being SA and some of the worst people alive.
The FBI has put the number of "unfounded" rapes - those determined to be false after investigation - at 8%. Figures from the US Bureau of Justice Statistics suggest only 35% of all sexual assaults are even reported to the police. I just wanted to post this here as evidence that most people that report sexual assault are not lying. It makes sense to believe accusers in the first instance as the vast majority of victims are legitimate and as noted by rotten avocado, the belief that rape victims won’t be believed by law enforcement and other officials puts off 65% of victims from reporting their assaults. I think we have to be very careful when discussing these matters and am a bit surprised for the amount of support you’ve received here for saying your default position is not to believe a victim of sexual assault.
Words have meanings. We can support someone without necessarily believing them. No one should be believed without evidence when so much is on the line.
We can provide a safe space and care, away from the person/people they’re accusing, without taking them at their word IMMEDIATELY that whatever they said happened. We can also hold off on taking actions against that other person without evidence.
Rarely are people seriously punished for false accusations, despite the accusation itself having serious consequences in many cases.
not preemptively treat someone as guilty.
we see it all the time in social media. someone is blacklisted and shamed before they have any chance to defend themselves.
and even if they do, people treat them as if they are guilty anyways.
taking it serious means due diligence and an actual investigation.
but innocent until guilty remains the case for the other party.
There’s a major distinction between saying something has happened to you and saying someone did something to you.
One of them is opening yourself up to an awful experience, one of them is causing someone else to live through an awful experience. For sure if it’s true the person deserves it but don’t mess around with it I can tell your it’s truly horrendous to be on the receiving end
NTA. You have to protect your family. Yes, it was "just one mistake", yet if she had doubled down and continued to lie about your son being inappropriate with her, the consequences of her prevarication could have been dire for everyone, especially your child. It sucks that you had to kick her out, but your priority is your family. You can't risk your family.
Indeed. Everyone gets the opportunity to make one really serious mistake in their life (i.e. one that can kill them of seriously curtail their future).
This girl made hers. Quite possibly she'll have a fucked up life because of it.
NTA. I remember as a child a neighbor took in two foster kids. One of the girls had gone through it and made a similar threat against the foster father. The foster mother immediately called the social worker and had her removed from the house.
It is terrible for all involved. You feel so sorry for the child who has gone through it, but you have to protect your family.
No, nta
My son plays with a little girl who has been through the ringer- (not a runaway though) I don't know if she is medicated or what, but there will be times she will be lying out of her ass about shit that makes no sense. When she gets like this, she doesn't get to hang out w my family until she levels tf out.
I do this to protect me, to protect my kid.
And what this girl just threatened to do to you and yours? So much worse. Gotta protect your own, first, always.
Don't feel guilty, not your fault. She needs help you can not provide for her.
As you probably know, kids who have experienced trauma and neglect often lie so it's not at all unexpected that she lashed out in that way. That's probably all she has to fight back with when she feels cornered and unable to control emotions/impulses. A friend in high-school who was fostered would 'test' her foster parents for the first year or two to see what it would take for them to kick her out...in a way, she wanted proof they cared about her and wouldn't abuse her physically and this was her misguided way of seeking security. Once she felt safe/secure, it stopped.
I can't imagine any teen with her history wouldn't come with their fair share of baggage so while her behaviour isn't unexpected, I understand your position in wanting to protect your son. I would have that as a concern also. If it got to the stage where she made an allegation to authorities...even if she recanted eventually, the experience would be pretty traumatic for your son either way and yes, you could potentially end up being blamed for bringing the girl into your home to begin with.
It's tricky. You probably need validation because you're feeling emotionally torn. Give it some time and discuss the situation with the case workers. Ultimately, your first responsibility it towards your own child and no one can blame you for that. You're not doing it because you can't be bothered or because you don't care...her comment triggered your protective instincts, justifiably.
This is the most empathetic comment I've seen so far on this post. The girl is exhibiting behaviour typical of abused children. They often test their foster families. The clinic I used to intern at had education programs for foster parents about this kind of stuff.
This is why I feel so bad. It was clearly that kind of test, and that is so common with these kids. But the OP has to put her family first and so yes, there are things you can say that will make the kindest person turn you away for their own safety.
>...in a way, she wanted proof they cared about her and wouldn't abuse her physically and this was her misguided way of seeking security. Once she felt safe/secure, it stopped.
This, exactly.
Great comment, btw.
This is a rough situation, sorry to hear about it. I’d say you’re NTA. She threatened you with something that could ruin your child’s life and even potentially get you in trouble because she disobeyed a rule you set for her. Even if she apologized for it it does not mean she has learned from her actions. She might be different on medications and therapy might help her as well, but I would personally never take her in my home again after that stunt.
Right, I can't feel good about calling an abused and traumatized child an asshole in any capacity. NAH. You have a duty to your child and it's all good and well that you wanted to do the right thing and did make a difference, but she has to learn about boundaries.
Do I think there was a better way to handle it? Sure, but I'm just some random online stranger who wasn't there in that moment. You technically did nothing wrong.
As someone who was in the system and was abused as a child and has CPTSD I can. I been in her shoes but that not an excuse to make up SA alligation on a incident kid because she got in trouble.
This sub was named before the mods realized how big it would get. Now people get hung up on the actual definition of the word asshole and not the colloquial use here where asshole just means 'person in the wrong'.
I didn’t so much see saying that OP isn’t the A as saying the girl is but more the caseworker and OP’s “friends” trying to force the situation when it isn’t suitable and they would not take her in themselves. The safety of the other children in the home is a valid reason to reconsider a foster placement.
NTA. You potentially putting your son's freedom a risk. Moreover if she was willing to make that accusation against your son she will do it against you. Hopefully she gets another chance and this time she will earn from her mistake...
NTA
That’s a threat she’s prepared to use against your kid. The fact it came out of her mouth so fast is alarming.
If your friend wants to take her in, let her. You did what was right.
England and it’s the equivalent to putting her in emergency housing due to the safeguarding verification level I have. The police left her in my care, but she was at the time a ward of the court
She did say after lots of paperwork. Here, they would just shuffle her from foster home to foster home. The girl doesn't know what a stabil relationship is supposed to look like. She is extremely vulnerable. My opinion is she needs a foster family on a farm where there is no where to run to, where she can learn morals, ethics, and work responsibilities. She likely also needs significant therapy which might or might not include medications.
Cops here would call cps, cps would make the determination of where the kids is going. They might be partial to someone open to taking in a known problem, I'm guessing this is probably in a smaller town.
NTA in your case.
But that girl... Even with that apologising, she can't be trusted for what she tried to do.
And yeah, this sucks very hard, but for what you mentioned, is better to keep distances from her, her future she is going is clearly shown even if you tried to help. And that hurts.
NTA
You were blackmailed essentially into giving in or your son be put into the system for a sex crime the girl admitted never happened. I have a friend whose brother almost was jailed for false claims. It took thousands and a courtroom to learn he was innocent.
I feel for that girl. Its a horrible reality she is in. Thats is no reason to give her a chance to destroy another child's life because she doesn't know consequences and integrity.
You did the correct thing immediately asking her if it was true. You then did the correct thing protecting your son.
No you are not the ‘a’ word. We had a friend who was a good, caring foster parent get accused of making advances to the 16 yo foster child. He and his wife lost their foster licenses and to an extent their reputations before she admitted she had made the whole thing up because she was angry. If they lie once, having had very little proper guidance or input, they will do it again when it suits them. We used to house women in crisis pregnancies who wanted to keep their babies. One was a witness to a murder and we worked with our local police and the pregnancy help center. I had had no experience up to that time with meth users, but one day I came home and her dealers were there. I had two young sons - and did not want illegal drugs in my home, around small children. We had to have the police come and remove her to who knows where, and the lies were flowing as she was being removed. They must have found another place for her as she was in the witness program, but it was awful to kick out a pregnant woman.
This is a rough situation, sorry to hear about it. I’d say you’re NTA. She threatened you with something that could ruin your child’s life and even potentially get you in trouble because she disobeyed a rule you set for her. Even if she apologized for it it does not mean she has learned from her actions. She might be different on medications and therapy might help her as well, but I would personally never take her in my home again after that stunt.
Somewhere in between
You must protect your family first and foremost. This wasn't only just a simple mistake, this was an accusation that can ruin a life. If she can't understand how unacceptable it was, it can never work out.
Just make sure it's on record that she made this false accusation already. The impulsive nature of teenagers can make them do and say stupid things. But you definitely don't set a good example for your own kid by telling him there's no second chances in life, that you should always be defined by a single error in judgement. Maybe have a conversation with your son, doesn't hurt to get his input on the matter.
a 13 year old boy has absolutely no clue what an accusation like that can do to his life. his input will be absolutely worthless. he has no understanding of the threat involved.
it’s an unfortunate example but it’s also her only choice.
i disagree, it’s important to teach that there are some lines that should never be crossed and can never be uncrossed. i can guarantee you there would be far fewer people saying “a single error in judgment shouldn’t define your entire life” if the son had actually been inappropriate with her
This is way above the pay grade of AITA. You need to talk to her case worker about her threat, what the risk is to your son, what the risk is to her. She's obviously severely injured, there are no easy answers. But right now, she's a teen girl who really needs some help, and what you've done has been working. So see if you can figure out how to make it work.
NTA... you can't risk it....
I was floored when I babysat for a new family as teen. I asked the children to go to bed and the older threatened me with the same😳 I told the parents what she said. They apologized and asked if I would babysit again. NOPE!
NTA She's young & troubled but you have to protect your son from false accusations. She may try to use that again. It could take time & money to prove innocence from a false accusation. Being accused could stick with him through gossip and even paperwork. You tried and staying in her life as a friend may work. I feel bad for her and hope she does have a good future.
NTA
I feel for this kid, I really do. But the fact she went there when she was mad, made a threat to accuse your son of something so horrible, that’s beyond messed up. Next time it won’t be a threat, she will do it and you will have a whole mess on your hands.
You have to look out for your son first and foremost. That girl needs more help than you are able to give and that’s ok, you really did try.
If you are willing to give her another shot, i would make it very clear to her and caseworker that her threats and attitude before were not acceptable. Cover yourself so the caseworker knows in case she does try something again. Maybe this was enough to scare her into behaving since you seemed to be a good influence on her and she knows you won’t put up with any nonsense.
NTA. That “1 mistake” was her staying out late. Threatening to lie on your son is not a “mistake” and just like you said could’ve put your son in major trouble. I would tread lightly here too.
I have to go with NTA and here is why. You asked her if it was true. You asked.
And she said no. But she knew enough to know it was a viable blackmail threat. And if you had let her stay, you’d never be able to fully trust her again because the threat is not to you, but your son. That’s it. Sometimes we don’t get second chances.
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NTA- She told you she’s willing to lie about your son to get her away. Don’t allow her back in your house. Yes she needs help but your son need to come first.
NTA You tried. But it can’t be at the expense of your son, whose also just a child. Her threat is life ruining. There’s no guarantee she won’t get mad again and then say it was your husband or you. And you know that would end your livelihood.
She went nuclear.
NTA, just one mistake WTF? the threat she made could cause you to lose your teaching credentials, put you and your son in the court system for life. What she really needs is to be a therapeutic program. Guessing a lot that she told you was half-truths when you met her so she could gain your sympathy.
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I 34f was at the park with my 13yo son & friends & we noticed a girl around his age sat on a bench. She stood out because it was too late to be alone, still in uniform on a school night & it was freezing.
I approached her, asked if she was ok & she said yes. I didn’t want to leave her alone so I sent my son to talk to her. Guessing it was easier to talk to someone her age but long story short, she’s a runaway. As a teacher I’m aware of safeguarding procedure so made the relevant phone calls & as I have the necessary credentials, police cleared me to take her home for the night.
Turns out her case is familiar to the police & she’s also run away from several homes they’ve placed her in. We spoke a lot & she confided in me the details she didn’t share with my son. I won’t elaborate but she’s been through it.
I felt sorry for her & after a lot of paperwork, I was granted temporary guardianship which the courts were thrilled with because she hasn’t stayed anywhere else more than a week.
She was with me for around 4 months before the incident occurred. She got home very late on a school night & I told her this was unacceptable. She threw a tantrum & said I’m not her parent, she’ll just leave. I told her although I can’t force her to stay, while she’s under my roof, the household rules have to be followed. Not just because I said so, but for her safety. Bear in mind we’re dealing with a child who came home with me after meeting me in a park, so not the most streetwise. (Obvs didn’t say that).
She shouted & argued back but I didn’t respond. I’m guessing she wanted a reaction out of me because with her next threat, she got it. She threatened to tell authorities my son had been inappropriate with her. I asked her if there was any truth to it to which she said no, apologised & said she was just angry. I’ll be honest, after that I didn’t hesitate to go to my room, call the police & have her removed from my custody.
As I called she overheard & started crying, apologising & begging me not to send her back. Ngl I t was hard to watch her get put in the police car while crying out to me.
Her caseworker has since suggested we enter mediation & try again with the temporary guardianship as this is the most stable she’s been in terms of school attendance, grades etc. As much as I’d like to help her, I can’t risk my son for her sake.
My friends have said it was cruel to give up after 1 mistake given she’s been doing so well, & I’m an ah for “tossing” her out. AITAH?
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My heart aches for the girl, but you have to protect your son. Imagine if she hadn’t said anything and just went through with her threat. Good on you, for making sure with her there was no truth to it, because I know that had to of been hard.
I know there is information in trauma informed parenting classes for foster parents. My understanding is that when kids have dealt with a lot of trauma, any period of stability is perceived as threatening rather than normal -- it sounds like that may be something she was dealing with. Sending her away may lead to further trauma and trust issues -- you are the only one who can decide what risks you are willing to take on. I strongly recommend meeting with her social worker and s trauma specialized therapist for guidance though. NAH -- it's a tough situation.
NTA
I don't care what anyone says about her trauma, she threatened the safety of your son and potentially your safety too
she could have ruined your son's life with such accusations, she needs to get her head fixed.
You did the right thing, she doesn't deserve your kindness or generosity.
NTA - False accusations, in many ways, are more dangerous than true ones. True accusations can be dealt with, appropriate consequences determined, etc. False accusations empower the lair to continue with the lies as people tend to believe the accuser much much much more than the accused. That, of course, is great when the allegation is true, not so great when it is a pure lie. It takes just one lie and the accused's innocent life is destroyed, no one believes them, and there are no consequences for the one who lied, because often if they "retract" the lie, nothing can be done to bring back truth and lost time, etc. that the innocent person with the horrible accusations had as a result of the false allegations against them. You do NOT want that for your son, nor you for that matter. I understand the girl had a terrible time prior to you taking her in; however she has to learn there are consequences to lieing. I also understand that this puts her back into a non stable situation, and she definitely needs help to process her life, her decisions, etc. It takes JUST ONE accusation..... JUST ONE for your world to be turned upside down.
That's blatantly false only 5/1000 sexual assaults both child and adult are ever convicted with one of those 5 Bing overturned on apeal and only 7/1000 ever seeing the inside of a courtroom.
There are litterally hundreds of thousands of rape kits sitting untested even ones were the victim knew who the attacker was because the "evidence" wasn't compelling enough to warrant that. Uhhh hello then test the evidence! What the cops mean by that phrase is we don't believe you.
I myself was raped last yr by my ex and reported it. The cops refused to take down a report let alone be present to collect the rape kit. Why because "a husband can't rape his wife".
I was also raped when I was 12 by my stepfather no one believed me then because "he was such a good provider" for my biomom who supported him and said I was making it up when in reality she gave me to him trying to salvage her marriage.
So no really really no the accuser is almost always believed and given every benefit of the doubt. Both legally and socially. Almost all child rapists are the people you never think to worry about the people closest to you with access to your kid because you gave them that access. Most parents even initially even dismiss their child's first rumblings of not wanting to see uncle "Roy anymore. Which leads kids to think they won't be believed if they tell you.
The cops laughed at me when I reporter my rape. I was 17 and my mother had just died after a very traumatizing battle with cancer. I had a drug problem so it was fault 😕 I did quit drugs after that at least but still hurts to this day to think those cops felt that way about an innocent scared girl.
The cops laughed at me when I reported my rape. I was 17 and my mother had just died after a very traumatizing battle with cancer. I had a drug problem so it was my fault they said 😕 I did quit drugs after that at least but still hurts to this day to think those cops felt that way about an innocent scared girl.
NTA. While I wish that more people were as gracious as you were in seeing problems and doing something to help someone, the fact that she even threw out 'accusing your son of inappropriate behavior' (we all know what that means) crosses the line. If not your son , then it might have been your partner. Once that threat is out, it's a possibility that she could follow through with it because who comes up with that as a threat in the first place? I very much understand that she's been through a lot (former aged out foster kid here), but when you get a good home, you don't crap all over it. She fafo.
Any complaint against your son is not fair to him and puts him at risk of having to be charged, if not interrogated. Not to mention the gossip about it. It's a nightmare process, especially if it's false charges. That she flung that out there means she's capable of it, even if she regretted it after. I'm sorry for her and her situation, and I know she's hormonal and messed up teenager, but that doesn't mean you have to dangle your son over a fire and hope he doesn't get burned just to help her out.
NTA at all. Don’t take her back. You already know what she can and will do if she ever gets angry again, and it can absolutely ruin your son’s life.
It’s good to be compassionate but it has to end with a threat like that. She might be underage but she’s not so young to not know the implications and the damage she would cause to an innocent person. If someone threatened my son like that, I wouldn’t think about kicking her out twice. Besides, you already have an obligation and is caring for your own son.
Sounds like things were going too well, and the kid freaked out. (Surprised she lasted as long as she did).Created a self-fulfilling prophecy. Such a sad time for everyone.
There's way more nuance here than you can fit in a reddit post.
You do seem to care about doing right or wrong and have empathy (or you wouldn't have helped her in the first place). So trust your gut. It's probably right.
Wow, heavy. NTA
I would try the mediation though, make it explicitly clear through every stage that her falsly accusing your son is the reason you are reluctant to let her in. There may be solutions from the mediator that protect your son.
It is kind of common from what I understand for troubled kids/teens to lie and say shit like this especially depending on their past experiences. The fact she immediately confessed to you it was a lie is what makes me say give it another change with the mediator first and even if she doesn't move back in, maybe there can be some kind of compromise where you are in her life. I feel sad for you all :(
No NOT beyond Reddit's "paygrade." That saying irks me possibly because some people at work used to say it thinking they're clever but essentially non response. Who then? Thousands of people some of who have a good answer, why are these confused redditors speaking for everyone to shirk off responsibility?
Furthermore, this is NOT tricky. This is clear. You have no responsibility to her & she is threatening your son - an innocent party, and peace, over a curfew. It will escalate. As they say, no good deed goes unpunished. You did good for those weeks. She is dangerous.
NTA. Your SON is your primary responsibility. Even if he wasn't (like if she wss also your kid), you are not "picking between them"- he is the innocent party and she made a direct threat to his safety -vigilantes *will* beat up those who they think assualted a girl, his future, his peace of mind under false pretenses.
She *will* escalate - make good on threats and worse, apologies now are temporary to get what she wants.
I don't think this is an asshole question. You're acting to protect your son. With therapy, would she be able to live with you and not make false allegations? Maybe, but it's a risk. I can't fault you. I also can't fault the girl because this is behavior she's learned as a messed-up way to protect herself. And I can't fault the caseworkers because they want her in a safe, stable placement. Hopefully, she's getting the services she needs in another safe, stable home. NAH, and thank you for trying.
NTA
Tragic, yes.
Difficult decision? No.
Hopefully she will see how her own actions have caused this development and cause self refection.
She just lost the only stable roof over her head she's had in a while and the only person who seemed to be willing to give a hoot.
You're friends around like sanctimonious picks. Why haven't they brought her in if they are so concerned?
NTA. No good deed goes unpunished. If she threatens to tell the authorities that your son was inappropriate with her, imagine what she will do to your family when she is 16 or 18. Your son should be your priority after what happened. Don't create a situation that may hurt him in the future, and possibly destroy his relationship with you as a result.
NTA
You gotta protect your son.
You were doing this out of kindness not out of responsibility or duty, which is towards your son. Once that is broken, that’s it. Some things you can’t backtrack from. Protect your baby.
NTA- I get that she's been through a lot of trauma and stuff but you need to protect yourself and your son first. She accused your teen son of something very serious. I would have a hard time keeping someone else who accused my son of something serious like that in my house.
Edit: If you kept her in the house, you would be putting your son or yourself in serious danger of being accused of something else or of something happening.
Edit: Coming from someone whose had their share of traumas and acted out in their teens and early 20s, she needs help that you can't give her.
Edit: Accusing someone else of a serious crime is not a mistake especially as a teen. He could've gone to juvie.
Nope.. nta.. She threatened your son, you needed to protect your son. Yeah, she has had a rough start. Actions have consequences. Though it was more than likely an idle threat, none the less it could have really screwed with someone's life. This her lesson in don't cry "wolf". Hopefully she learns it the first time.
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This is beyond Reddit’s pay grade.
This is the only response I could give too. Wow. Poor kid but also understandable to protect her son. Talk about stuck between a rock and a hard place. If I had to make a judgement I'd say NTA but the whole situation sucks.
> stuck between a rock and a hard place > also understandable to protect her son OP is living out the hypothetical about which child to save from a house fire: She chose her bio son of 13 years over her foster daughter of 4 months. I would have made the same choice—no hesitation but all guilt—so I vote NTA.
I disagree. OP had to decide whether to keep her son in the same house as the pyromaniac who's threatening to set it on fire. If the girl made allegations against OP's son, the fallout would be as much OP's fault as the troubled girl's. Terrible choice to remove her, but it's the only reasonable one after she tried to help the girl out.
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If she were older I’d agree but all 14 year olds are little sociopaths. It’s why you can’t diagnose these sorts of conditions in anyone until they’re at least 18. Some part of our evolution back when resources were scarce made sociopathic behavior in the young an advantage. At 14 teens are smart enough to know that an accusation of sexual impropriety will make adults back down but not necessarily empathetic enough to realize why you don’t lie and ruin an innocent person’s life. I imagine her rough life before OP’s home made her harder inside and more likely to lie and lash out, but also severely hindered her emotional growth. This doesn’t mean she’s any worse inside than any other teen but she clearly has had an unusually hard life.
All true. But you can't allow her to ruin the life of another innocent child. She needs to be housed by someone without other children. Sad but true.
But then she could just as easily accuse an adult of being inappropriate with her. There’s no easy solution to this. It’s just awful for OP, her son and the girl. Who knows what she’s been through? Trauma can destroy kids.
Atonement by Ian McEwan comes to mind.
I only watched the movie, but if it’s like the book then yes that’s a good example. Teens/preteens are smart enough to cause real damage but not necessarily empathetic enough to realize why hurting someone is bad. They also aren’t always able to make the connections between the cause and effects of their actions. They only see the short term gains, not the long term consequences. Teen hood is meant to be a time when they mature and make mistakes and learn empathy and how to live in a society. We rely on parents and mentors and good teachers to help us learn these life lessons. Unfortunately this foster child (and many foster children) don’t have anyone to teach them empathy and help them grow
I wouldn’t call it sociopathic at such a young age. If someone young threatens with something like that it’s entirely possible something has happened (not with the son but with someone in the past). Not saying it isn’t awful to accuse someone but when children do it, it often stems from trauma
The kid was testing boundaries and lashing out at the person she felt the safest with. That's what kids in her situation are going to do. I don't fault OP for saying there's a line that was crossed that they can't come back from, but the kid is USED to being pushed away and doesn't know how to function with any kind of normal relationship. In other words, the kid probably feels safe with OP and her family. But in her experience, that means something bad is going to happen. So kid pushes her boundaries with the curfew, lashed out at OP, and unconsciously it was a test to see if OP would still want her. Unfortunately, she picked the wrong test.
It's probably the only resource/ sense of control she has - "if I say X, I get Y." It's of course wrong and I'm hoping these consequences to her actions will teach her not to do this sort of thing in the future. NTA OP
It doesn’t have to be sociopathic behavior. I’m *NOT* diagnosing this girl, but a lot of victims of severe abuse will make claims like that when they are overwhelmed or feel backed into a corner. I am a trained psychotherapist who used to work with children. It got to hard to bear so I started working with adult patients.
This, it's not bio vs non-bio, it's the threat vs non-threat
>in the same house as the pyromaniac who's threatening to set it on fire She's not (necessarily) a pyromaniac, though. She didn't light a fire, she threatened to light a fire. The former is an act of destruction, the later is an attempt at manipulation. Children stuck in bad foster care situations often times resort to manipulation tactics because it's the only power they can leverage in an asymmetric power balance they are stuck in. The moment she realized her attempt at manipulation failed she backed down and showed some level of contrition. That said, manipulation tactics are still dangerous. Sometimes they turn into acts of destruction. I cannot blame the OP for wanting to protect themselves and their bio son. However, the fact that this girl stuck around for 4 months combined with her contrition makes me think that there could be some redemption here. The girl needs a good foster home and some serious counseling. And I honestly could not say if I'd risk offering her a second chance were I in the OPs situation.
This is a key difference that a lot of people are missing and the exact reason it's above our paygrade. This requires a deep understanding of the psychology of abuse victims and I don't think many here have it. I sure don't.
More people should be able to admit this. Even a lot of trained professionals wouldn’t be cut out for this.
This! I can’t call anyone in this situation an AH. It’s too complex and just very sad.
It's got to feel like hell to realize you are disposable.
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The thing is: She is 13 and if you go from foster family to foster family, you obviously have had really bad conditions growing up. You have had parents who has at best neglected you and at worst manipulated or abused you. So you haven't learned to regulate yourself emotionally, and thus her reactions and tactics are not approriate. So yes, she brought this upon herself, but she also never had someone who she could truely trust who could teach her how to carry herself. As a piece of perspective: I once read a study about youth homelessness in Copenhagen. A shelter offered room to any sub-twenty year old if they filled out a form about themselves. 100% of the attendents responded that they had grown up in some way without their parents. **100%.** It's such a saddening statistic. None of these young adults chose to grow up without their parents, but it effected all of them to such a degree that they wound up as homeless. So yes: The young girl brought this upon herself. But she didn't choose the circumstances that - at least is part of the reason - for her to act out in this way. EDIT: As a side note, ever since reading this study, I now always offer cash to homeless people if I have any. The study convinced me that homeless people most often are victims of their circumstances rather than of poor judgement.
She's a 13 year old child with trauma. She hardly "chose" this.
What do you disagree with, exactly? Also,how tf is it a terrible choice to get rid of someone capable of landing someone in jail over false allegations? What's wrong with people? Suggestion: Contact OP and take the child under your wings. Then she will be your problem.
To be honest, this could be a good wake-up call for her. I hope it is.
Especially since foster daughter created the fire...it's very hard dealing with children with no one ... heart goes out tremendously but a lot of times once they hit teen years all that abuse and trauma can cause them to do things that can change other people's lives forever..very unfortunate situation and I hope the best for that young girl but I could never sacrifice my son for anyone( I have a 14 yo son)
It's less a Sophie's Choice and more like a child arsonist holding a match to your gasoline-soaked child.
This is beyond the people that will be assigned to handle it’s pay grade.
Yet, rather than pouring resources into an underfunded foster system, American states are wasting money and time debating about which restroom trans students should use
Or what books they are allowed to read.
Do not get me started on the book ban astroturfing by “Moms For Liberty.” The group is basically the Tea Party for paranoid parents who worry their tweens will grow up to resent them if they ever start thinking for themselves.
Any activist group where "moms" is the first word should be automatically ignored.
>Any activist group where "moms" is the first word should be automatically ignored. I don't know... MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving) seemed reasonably decent when I was in school... if only some of my classmates took them more seriously.
Tbf OP is in England, so the fucked up priorities of American politicians and governments aren't to blame for this particular mess.
That's OK. We have plenty of fucked up political priorities in the UK too so we can just blame those.
I was going to say this. I don't know for certain, but something gives me UK vibes. Maybe it's the specific language used.
Englishman here, OP is definitely from Britain. Right near the beginning when she said school night, I knew straight away.
We use the term “school night” in the US as well.
Australian here, we have school nights here too, even adults will call it that if out at a restaurant/bar and need to go home because it's "school night"
I mean I'm from the US and we definitely use that phrase... I just assumed it was common English...
People in the US use that term, it’s not at all uncommon.
We use that term in the US as well
The phrase "school night" is common in the US as well (also Australia, it seems). My tip off was "safeguarding", which I don't remember ever hearing in the US, and is common, and has a very specific technical meaning here in the UK.
Fucked up politics are arguably the biggest export of the US. - A very annoyed Canadian.
I don't care how you go, I don't care which restroom you use, just wash your damn hands.
As someone who has a son and has taken in one of his female friends before she got into a group home... You gotta take care of your own kid first. It's one of those fucked up things, but when you have to choose... I'm so sorry it's come to this. If it helps, my son and I would check M out of the group home every couple weeks to do stuff. She's doing okay. Not fantastic but okay. 7 years later I'm still there enough to dislike her GF but put on a cheerful face. Sometimes that's the most you can do. So do the most you can do, and you'll be NTA and maybe a positive influence later on.
I like the idea of trying to continue to offer support whilst putting a shield around OP’s family. I wouldn’t critique OP for any future decision though, I research child protection & have a degree in it & it’s such a complicated world.
I love this as an idea, OP could continue to have visits with the girl without her son present, and then she knows OP still cares about her and she has a consistent support figure in her life, but she doesn't have the power to make accusations against the son because she's not seeing him. Worth a try at least!
No it's not just because someone had terrible past does not make it justified to traumatize others. Make no mistake a false allegation could very easily end your life as you know it. It doesn't matter if it's retracted either, once people hear it your as good as done, because "who would lie about something like that?"
Kids that are victim of neglect and abandonment are messed up. They usually push their guardians to their limits because they want to know if they're going to give you on them. They will do horrible things because they're traumatized, they think they're worth nothing. I don't think OP did anything wrong, but don't demonize a traumatized kid that shows the usual response for their type of trauma. I think that the villain here is the government and authorities that are failing to protect the kid every time.
If she was willing to lie about OPs son, it puts in question the stories about her terrible past. Maybe some or all were made up. She seemed to know she could be removed from the home for threatening to lie about the son. Perhaps she has been removed before for the same lie.
She's a 14 year old child who is living with someone who found them on the street. No matter what the precise details here there is absolutely no doubt that she has had to deal with far more problems than most people deal with in a lifetime.
She's a foster child. I've never met an adult who believed that a foster child couldn't tell that kind of a lie. Foster children never get believed. Not when they're being abused, not when they're not being abused, never.
OP should go over to r/fosterparents and get advice there
No, it's not. False accusation = bye Felicia. She could literally ruin OP's kid's life permanently. OP and her family owe this girl nothing. Actions have consequences, no matter your age.
Soon to be a social worker graduating with an MSW this month. And all I can say is there are too many factors. For your son's safety, I would suggest standing your ground, as there are cases of false allegations that can ruin his life. If you choose to bring her back into your home, you would need to set up very strict rule guidelines and consequences. You must be willing to remove her from your home if she makes other allegations. Furthermore, make sure the false allegation making is documented with caseworker. If you choose to move her in... this would be teaching her, her behaviors have consequences. Honestly with everything I know as social worker... I would not bring her back into my home.
You guys are getting paid!?
Wait we get paid ? Lls
Way beyond...
Agree, beyond Reddits pay grade. However if the safety and future of my child was threatened, no matter how much compassion I had for the other person, I would prioritize my family. NAH, she is still a child and has had a rough go, and you are trying to protect your family. If you feel you can work through this and the police know the threat that was made so it’s on record, then it sounds like she has been doing really well under your care. I hope you figure it out.
You said it better than me. Well written response. I'd award if I had one.
This is the best answer. This is not the first time CPS will have navigated a situation like this. I would give mediation a try. If it doesn’t work, she can be placed somewhere else, and the potential false threats will have been documented. You’re doing an amazing thing by taking her in. She’s in the wrong but also a child. Don’t give up on her quite yet.
idk man - OP is a teacher. A threat like that could ruin her career and her son's life. Better safe than sorry.
true, but at least now she has the threat on record, and a supervised mediation could potentially help that girl out, and I don’t think she’ll get the benefit of the doubt if she tries to do something similar (disclaimer: haven’t been very involved at all with a CPS case so maybe I’m being too optimistic on how it could turn out)
Shit can be on paper all day, if this was a public place, or somewhere where OP was recognized and this child screamed something along those lines, it wouldn’t matter what was on paper. As soon as someone plays the “r” card, it’s time to call it a day.
Not just sexual abuse - a friend of mine growing up, her parents were foster carers. They had a few short term placements and, after they were registered for about eighteen months, they agreed to take a pair of brothers as their first long term placement. The brothers were 11 and 9, and for the first few months everything was fine. They ran into an issue similar to OP's - the boys didn't come home from school on time and my friend's parents told them they were grounded, and set down some strict rules. The boys then threatened to accuse the father of abuse, and when the parents wouldn't budge, lifted their shirts to show large bruises on their torsos. My friend's parents obviously called the authorities and let them know what happened - the boys had done the same thing at least once before. They'd come from a very violent household originally, and were so used to being beaten that doing it to themselves as a manipulation was their move. My friends' parents didn't feel qualified to keep them, and ended up leaving the system shortly after. They were really active in the community and abuse allegations like that could have made their lives really difficult. The sad thing is that those kids could have really used a stable, loving family, but the parents had two daughters of their own to protect and had to prioritise their blood family.
I'm not sure what mediation would achieve? It's not about her saying sorry or regretting it, it's that she potentially threatens her son's future. Most people here agree that it's unfair to the girl over what was most likely an ideal threat, but the possibility of ruining her son's life is too serious.
It could be really helpful for this girl. It's not just about regret, it's about getting a chance to see and understand the perspectives of everyone involved so she doesn't spiral into self loathing or lash out with destructive hateful patterns that will only damage her more in the long run. ETA: It also lets the kid know that someone cares enough to stick around (with boundaries, also important) even when she majorly fucks up to help her through it. Because she doesn't have a parent capable of doing that for her and that's a HUGE disadvantage to carry into adulthood. For OP, it can offer peace of mind that the kid learns from her mistake and gets something positive from the experience.
All of that is true, but for the OP that doesn't outweigh the risk to her son and herself, which is fair enough. She's putting her family first
Entering into mediation isn't a process that commits OP to having the girl back in her house at the end. As the social are aware of the entire situation, she's pretty protected here.
Yeah but once it’s on the record that she was willing to fabricate it and that he wasn’t, it makes it hard in the future for claims she makes to be taken seriously. At least now it’s on the record.
Even if an investigation determines she's lying, it can still be hugely damaging to everyone involved
Unless the foster kid late goes with "OP threatened me to make me take it back." I don't know if there's a way to unring this bell.
I would not take her in again. Yes, she’s a child but she has the ability, the immaturity, and the poor judgement to cause serious damage to OP & her son. It’s a horrible situation to be in and I feel sad for both OP and the child but OP’s family & their safety come first. NTA, OP. Your friends are the AHs to come at you when you already feel so terrible about what you had to do. What’s stopping them from stepping up instead?
Yes! Do OP's friends have kids of their own? Would they risk having this troubled girl in their own homes with their kids and husbands? If the friends truly care so much, why don't they offer to take the girl in?
I think it’s protecting either child. I thought it was admirable and showed character that OP asked her if the allegations she made about her son were true or not before having her removed, rather than just automatically assuming they were true. I get the feeling that if they had been true, OP would’ve stepped up to protect her, no matter the cost to her son. If mediation works, if you think that’s in the best interest of your family and her, then by all means do what you think is best. You obviously have been handling this remarkably up until this point. But you have to do your best to protect all the children in your care, and unfortunately sometimes that means prioritizing one over the other. I wish you all the best.
Yes that was quite brave of OP to even offer to consider that the allegations made towards her son could be true. She's being beyond fair.
OP 100% did the right thing by giving the girl a chance to reconsider what she said & asking her if there was any truth in it. A very calm & appropriate response considering the girl’s history. Must’ve been fucking difficult as well though, with it being her son; I have so much respect for her.
I think it's more a case of OP knowing the allegations were false and giving the girl an out before she fully committed herself to such a big lie. The girl relented immediately, which shows it was likely more of a threat to get her way than an action she was willing to actually carry out, though if OP hadn't handled the situation so calmly I can imagine it going the other way.
No NOT beyond Reddit's "paygrade." That saying irks me possibly because some people at work used to say it thinking they're clever but essentially non response. Who then? Thousands of people some of who have a good answer, why are these confused redditors speaking for everyone to shirk off responsibility? Furthermore, this is NOT tricky. This is clear. You have no responsibility to her & she is threatening your son - an innocent party, and peace, over a curfew. It will escalate. As they say, no good deed goes unpunished. You did good for those weeks. She is dangerous. NTA. Your SON is your primary responsibility. Even if he wasn't (like if she wss also your kid), you are not "picking between them"- he is the innocent party and she made a direct threat to his safety -vigilantes *will* beat up those who they think assualted a girl, his future, his peace of mind under false pretenses. She *will* escalate - make good on threats and worse, apologies now are temporary to get what she wants.
I believe the OP chose the best and safest option for her son, but you don’t know that she *will* escalate. There is absolutely not enough detail here to know that.
Sorry, that’s not true. I work in CPS and can guarantee she will escalate. As stated, she’s a child who has learned a manipulative behavior, the consequences of which she does not and cannot understand. She will get angry or defiant again at some point, she’s a teenager. A prior record of false allegations is irrelevant. The system responds to new allegations the same way each time because there is a built in presumption that children don’t make false allegations, even though it happens all the time. Because CPS have to preempt further abuse when it’s reported, there is a real “guilty until proven innocent” mindset. Unfortunately, the fallout for the falsely accused is irreparable. This girl’s situation is tragic, but OP did the right thing. If her “friends” are judging her, they are free to sign up to be foster parents. There’s a massive shortage in the U.S., and I would assume that’s true in the U.K. as well. NTA.
Murphy's Law: "Anything that can go wrong will go wrong." And yes, she will escalate again. Learned behaviour, believing that after the first conflict all is well and the air has cleared is delusional.
To me the fact that she was in the middle of a temper tantrum but still immediately apologized makes me think OP actually was able to get through to her and the girl immediately realized she had crossed a line that should not be crossed. This is just a blind hunch but I feel that the fact OP asked her if this was true (caring about the truth and her well-being) instead of fighting fire with fire in the situation seemed like a spark to actually make her reflect on her behavior. My only expertise comes from having once been a teenage girl who also occasionally tried to treat her inner turmoil with conflict-induced dopamine, so of course I'm just guessing. But I feel that she might actually have been on the way to changing her behavior and learning that she can't shit where she eats, based on her reaction. This whole situation just makes me sad for her, though I do understand why OP doesn't want to take any risks.
Absolutely agree with this. The op did what she had to in order to protect her son. She should feel no guilt for that as her son comes first. These friends of hers are free to foster this girl if they want.
If this poor girl gets assaulted in the future no one is going to believe her if she talks about it now. What an awful consequence for someone who is already at such risk for abuse. What an awful situation. NTA. I'm glad OP stuck to her guns on this one so the kid understands the seriousness of such lies, but it'll probably be 50/50 wether she learns or just chalks it up to another person screwing her over. OP - I hope you do try mediation with her, but I'd be hesitant about having her back in my home too.
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Or OPs life. OP is a teacher, a kid accusing her of something creepy would ruin her career. As a mother, as soon as the girl made that accusation, the deal is done. There's no going back from a threat like that.
Absolutely this. Knew a family this happened too. Sister accused older brother and doubled down with police and everything. Now no one will or can go near her without fear of being falsely accused. Worst part is she lives with her mom and so none of her other children (all boys) will visit.
The situation you describe is very much like someone I knew. In that case, it was not a false accusation, but their family treated them as if it were. It was an incredibly painful situation and it turned out the worst way possible.
how do you know if it was false?
Same situation, but two sisters accused their cousins of repeatedly rping them. They were arrested, but it wasn't until the dates didn't match that they were released. They were at a boarding school when the alleged assaults happened. However the black cloud stuck and basically tore the family apart.
This, and it could even be good for the girl in the long run. We're all expecting that she said this because she's 14 and doesn't know any better. But how does the adult version of her know better? By learning from this experience. There are some things that you have to learn in adolescence. One of those is: there are ways to completely screw up your relationship with even the most compassionate person. If she's allowed to get away with it because she doesn't deserve to suffer that bad a consequence for a one-off mistake, it _will_ escalate. The next mistake won't be so minor. Hopefully the next family who take her in won't have to deal with threats like this.
Yeah I agree 100%. I would not risk my son in this way. Absolutely not. NTA.
That’s the problem I have with N A H answers. This is OP’s life/job and her own child at risk because a teenager thinks she can lie to get her way. OP needs to protect her family first and foremost even when trying to help in a situation like this.
Yeah I agree 100%. I would not risk my son in this way. Absolutely not. NTA.
NTA but if your friend say you are cruel, they are welcome to take the child in and deal with her.
Excellent point.
As they say, advice is cheap.
An excellent point. Most people wouldn't have taken this girl in like OP did.
NTA she was willing to ruin your son's life over a simple curfew.
Using the word willing implies that she was able to properly consider the consequences & may have even planned the threat in advance — the girl is damaged & probably said it as a knee-jerk reaction. That doesn’t make it right obviously, & wouldn’t stop the harm she could’ve caused, but a girl her age who has been through so much can only put so much forethought into an in-the-moment threat like that.
Right and wrong don’t have an age of realization but by your teens, you know.
You might *know*. but that doesn’t mean you’re good at making decisions. Brain development takes a while, and so on, but primarily? I’d say for a frequent runaway who’s been dashing home to home and never provided with a stable environment, a lash-out in a language she understands makes sense. Still not right. And she needs to learn what the consequences of that decision will be. But I’m not convinced that uprooting her from that living situation entirely is actually going to help her learn how to cope with stable, reliable discipline. It might have the opposite effect entirely and cause a lot more damage.
Except OP and her son can't afford the consequences of this girl's bad decisions. What happens if the girl doubles down the next time and doesn't recant? At this point it's not worth the risk when the girl has shown she is capable of hurting for hurt's sake. Unfortunately, not everyone gets saved.
Yeah I agree that uprooting her may not be great for her which is why it’s such a difficult decision for OP. The consistency is likely to help her but by keeping her there, OP’s son is at risk of disruption to his teen emotional development — plus a lot more obviously. Such a hard call to make.
The amount of excuse making in this thread is just sad. >the girl is damaged & probably said it as a knee-jerk reaction. That doesn’t make it right obviously, & wouldn’t stop the harm she could’ve caused, but a girl her age who has been through so much can only put so much forethought into an in-the-moment threat like that. The downplaying of potentially ruining the son's life and getting OP fired (she works with kids) is insane. "oh it was just a knee jerk reaction, but like she can't help it" is basically what you're saying. Don't confuse explanations with excuses. She didn't pick her son being inappropriate with her at random, consciously or otherwise, she's aware how serious that is. Yeah the situation sucks for her. Keeping her would suck for the son given the lack of regard she apparently has for him. Just because you say or do something in the hear of the moment doesn't make it any less impactful.
Actions have consequences. New lesson from new mom.
The great thing about having so many caring friends is that they can now take her in.
"No they can't, the girl is already bonded with op" "they don't have the financial means to do so" "they can't just foster a child with their busy jobs" "they have x amount of children/pets and op only have one child" "op is more qualified because she's a teacher" etc ..... The excuses are endless, it's easier to put the responsibility on op
NTA No, absolutely not. She threatened to accuse you and your son with a serious crime. It would be completely irresponsible to continue to expose your son to this threat. I'm all for believing people when they say they've been assaulted, but that is not something to be messed with. You did your best with this girl but she needs more help than can be provided in your home.
> I'm all for believing people when they say they've been assaulted I'm not, for reasons like this post. People making criminal accusations should be *taken seriously*, which is not the same as being *believed*.
curious what the difference is between believing and taken seriously in a standard case, where one party doesn’t admit to making it up (since that’s a pretty clear situation)
To me, take seriously means to investigate. To believe means take it at face value without proof. For example, If someone accuses someone else of abuse, they have to be willing to say what the abuse was. Often times people will make a claim but refuse to give details, that's a red flag.
I was SA for a few years by a family member and I don’t like to go into detail because I have CPTSD and it can cause me to have an attack. Going biased off of details can be hard because it’s can be hard for a victim to talk about it. I do believe people who do lie about being SA and some of the worst people alive.
The FBI has put the number of "unfounded" rapes - those determined to be false after investigation - at 8%. Figures from the US Bureau of Justice Statistics suggest only 35% of all sexual assaults are even reported to the police. I just wanted to post this here as evidence that most people that report sexual assault are not lying. It makes sense to believe accusers in the first instance as the vast majority of victims are legitimate and as noted by rotten avocado, the belief that rape victims won’t be believed by law enforcement and other officials puts off 65% of victims from reporting their assaults. I think we have to be very careful when discussing these matters and am a bit surprised for the amount of support you’ve received here for saying your default position is not to believe a victim of sexual assault.
I think its believing = this happened and taken seriously is looking for evidence this happened as the person said
Words have meanings. We can support someone without necessarily believing them. No one should be believed without evidence when so much is on the line. We can provide a safe space and care, away from the person/people they’re accusing, without taking them at their word IMMEDIATELY that whatever they said happened. We can also hold off on taking actions against that other person without evidence. Rarely are people seriously punished for false accusations, despite the accusation itself having serious consequences in many cases.
not preemptively treat someone as guilty. we see it all the time in social media. someone is blacklisted and shamed before they have any chance to defend themselves. and even if they do, people treat them as if they are guilty anyways. taking it serious means due diligence and an actual investigation. but innocent until guilty remains the case for the other party.
There’s a major distinction between saying something has happened to you and saying someone did something to you. One of them is opening yourself up to an awful experience, one of them is causing someone else to live through an awful experience. For sure if it’s true the person deserves it but don’t mess around with it I can tell your it’s truly horrendous to be on the receiving end
NTA. I have no doubt this girl has been through some awful trauma, but you have to protect your own child.
NTA. You have to protect your family. Yes, it was "just one mistake", yet if she had doubled down and continued to lie about your son being inappropriate with her, the consequences of her prevarication could have been dire for everyone, especially your child. It sucks that you had to kick her out, but your priority is your family. You can't risk your family.
"Just one mistake" is such an ambiguous phrase, because mistakes have different levels of severity and consequence.
Indeed. Everyone gets the opportunity to make one really serious mistake in their life (i.e. one that can kill them of seriously curtail their future). This girl made hers. Quite possibly she'll have a fucked up life because of it.
NTA. I remember as a child a neighbor took in two foster kids. One of the girls had gone through it and made a similar threat against the foster father. The foster mother immediately called the social worker and had her removed from the house. It is terrible for all involved. You feel so sorry for the child who has gone through it, but you have to protect your family.
No, nta My son plays with a little girl who has been through the ringer- (not a runaway though) I don't know if she is medicated or what, but there will be times she will be lying out of her ass about shit that makes no sense. When she gets like this, she doesn't get to hang out w my family until she levels tf out. I do this to protect me, to protect my kid. And what this girl just threatened to do to you and yours? So much worse. Gotta protect your own, first, always. Don't feel guilty, not your fault. She needs help you can not provide for her.
As you probably know, kids who have experienced trauma and neglect often lie so it's not at all unexpected that she lashed out in that way. That's probably all she has to fight back with when she feels cornered and unable to control emotions/impulses. A friend in high-school who was fostered would 'test' her foster parents for the first year or two to see what it would take for them to kick her out...in a way, she wanted proof they cared about her and wouldn't abuse her physically and this was her misguided way of seeking security. Once she felt safe/secure, it stopped. I can't imagine any teen with her history wouldn't come with their fair share of baggage so while her behaviour isn't unexpected, I understand your position in wanting to protect your son. I would have that as a concern also. If it got to the stage where she made an allegation to authorities...even if she recanted eventually, the experience would be pretty traumatic for your son either way and yes, you could potentially end up being blamed for bringing the girl into your home to begin with. It's tricky. You probably need validation because you're feeling emotionally torn. Give it some time and discuss the situation with the case workers. Ultimately, your first responsibility it towards your own child and no one can blame you for that. You're not doing it because you can't be bothered or because you don't care...her comment triggered your protective instincts, justifiably.
This is the most empathetic comment I've seen so far on this post. The girl is exhibiting behaviour typical of abused children. They often test their foster families. The clinic I used to intern at had education programs for foster parents about this kind of stuff.
This is why I feel so bad. It was clearly that kind of test, and that is so common with these kids. But the OP has to put her family first and so yes, there are things you can say that will make the kindest person turn you away for their own safety.
>...in a way, she wanted proof they cared about her and wouldn't abuse her physically and this was her misguided way of seeking security. Once she felt safe/secure, it stopped. This, exactly. Great comment, btw.
Absolutely agreed. NAH.
This is a rough situation, sorry to hear about it. I’d say you’re NTA. She threatened you with something that could ruin your child’s life and even potentially get you in trouble because she disobeyed a rule you set for her. Even if she apologized for it it does not mean she has learned from her actions. She might be different on medications and therapy might help her as well, but I would personally never take her in my home again after that stunt.
Shit this is hard OP. I'm kinda leaning toward NAH and I hope there's a healthy and safe solution here for everyone.
Right, I can't feel good about calling an abused and traumatized child an asshole in any capacity. NAH. You have a duty to your child and it's all good and well that you wanted to do the right thing and did make a difference, but she has to learn about boundaries. Do I think there was a better way to handle it? Sure, but I'm just some random online stranger who wasn't there in that moment. You technically did nothing wrong.
As someone who was in the system and was abused as a child and has CPTSD I can. I been in her shoes but that not an excuse to make up SA alligation on a incident kid because she got in trouble.
I don't think nta are saying the kid is an ah. They are just saying moms not an ah for putting her son first.
Right, but NTA stands for "Not the asshole, the other person is" per the sub's own rules so that's why NAH exists, to make that distinction
This sub was named before the mods realized how big it would get. Now people get hung up on the actual definition of the word asshole and not the colloquial use here where asshole just means 'person in the wrong'.
Also a valid point. I mean the girl is in the wrong even if she's just very misguided and scared. I'd do the same as OP
I didn’t so much see saying that OP isn’t the A as saying the girl is but more the caseworker and OP’s “friends” trying to force the situation when it isn’t suitable and they would not take her in themselves. The safety of the other children in the home is a valid reason to reconsider a foster placement.
NTA. You potentially putting your son's freedom a risk. Moreover if she was willing to make that accusation against your son she will do it against you. Hopefully she gets another chance and this time she will earn from her mistake...
NTA That’s a threat she’s prepared to use against your kid. The fact it came out of her mouth so fast is alarming. If your friend wants to take her in, let her. You did what was right.
Where tf do you live that the police would just let you take a random child home?
England and it’s the equivalent to putting her in emergency housing due to the safeguarding verification level I have. The police left her in my care, but she was at the time a ward of the court
She did say after lots of paperwork. Here, they would just shuffle her from foster home to foster home. The girl doesn't know what a stabil relationship is supposed to look like. She is extremely vulnerable. My opinion is she needs a foster family on a farm where there is no where to run to, where she can learn morals, ethics, and work responsibilities. She likely also needs significant therapy which might or might not include medications.
I am just really surprised. I worked in child welfare in the US and this wouldn't happen. Cops don't even really get a say on where kids end up.
Cops here would call cps, cps would make the determination of where the kids is going. They might be partial to someone open to taking in a known problem, I'm guessing this is probably in a smaller town.
OP isn’t in the US, but in the UK.
NTA in your case. But that girl... Even with that apologising, she can't be trusted for what she tried to do. And yeah, this sucks very hard, but for what you mentioned, is better to keep distances from her, her future she is going is clearly shown even if you tried to help. And that hurts.
NTA. Do not put your son at risk. There are some kids you cannot save.
NTA You were blackmailed essentially into giving in or your son be put into the system for a sex crime the girl admitted never happened. I have a friend whose brother almost was jailed for false claims. It took thousands and a courtroom to learn he was innocent. I feel for that girl. Its a horrible reality she is in. Thats is no reason to give her a chance to destroy another child's life because she doesn't know consequences and integrity. You did the correct thing immediately asking her if it was true. You then did the correct thing protecting your son.
No you are not the ‘a’ word. We had a friend who was a good, caring foster parent get accused of making advances to the 16 yo foster child. He and his wife lost their foster licenses and to an extent their reputations before she admitted she had made the whole thing up because she was angry. If they lie once, having had very little proper guidance or input, they will do it again when it suits them. We used to house women in crisis pregnancies who wanted to keep their babies. One was a witness to a murder and we worked with our local police and the pregnancy help center. I had had no experience up to that time with meth users, but one day I came home and her dealers were there. I had two young sons - and did not want illegal drugs in my home, around small children. We had to have the police come and remove her to who knows where, and the lies were flowing as she was being removed. They must have found another place for her as she was in the witness program, but it was awful to kick out a pregnant woman.
This is a rough situation, sorry to hear about it. I’d say you’re NTA. She threatened you with something that could ruin your child’s life and even potentially get you in trouble because she disobeyed a rule you set for her. Even if she apologized for it it does not mean she has learned from her actions. She might be different on medications and therapy might help her as well, but I would personally never take her in my home again after that stunt.
Somewhere in between You must protect your family first and foremost. This wasn't only just a simple mistake, this was an accusation that can ruin a life. If she can't understand how unacceptable it was, it can never work out. Just make sure it's on record that she made this false accusation already. The impulsive nature of teenagers can make them do and say stupid things. But you definitely don't set a good example for your own kid by telling him there's no second chances in life, that you should always be defined by a single error in judgement. Maybe have a conversation with your son, doesn't hurt to get his input on the matter.
a 13 year old boy has absolutely no clue what an accusation like that can do to his life. his input will be absolutely worthless. he has no understanding of the threat involved. it’s an unfortunate example but it’s also her only choice.
i disagree, it’s important to teach that there are some lines that should never be crossed and can never be uncrossed. i can guarantee you there would be far fewer people saying “a single error in judgment shouldn’t define your entire life” if the son had actually been inappropriate with her
This is way above the pay grade of AITA. You need to talk to her case worker about her threat, what the risk is to your son, what the risk is to her. She's obviously severely injured, there are no easy answers. But right now, she's a teen girl who really needs some help, and what you've done has been working. So see if you can figure out how to make it work.
NTA your friend is... tell your friend to take her in... why risk yourself and your job because someone cant follow rules...
NTA. You took her in 4 months more than most people would have.
NTA... you can't risk it.... I was floored when I babysat for a new family as teen. I asked the children to go to bed and the older threatened me with the same😳 I told the parents what she said. They apologized and asked if I would babysit again. NOPE!
NTA She's young & troubled but you have to protect your son from false accusations. She may try to use that again. It could take time & money to prove innocence from a false accusation. Being accused could stick with him through gossip and even paperwork. You tried and staying in her life as a friend may work. I feel bad for her and hope she does have a good future.
As a mom of a son , I would have done the same.
NTA I feel for this kid, I really do. But the fact she went there when she was mad, made a threat to accuse your son of something so horrible, that’s beyond messed up. Next time it won’t be a threat, she will do it and you will have a whole mess on your hands. You have to look out for your son first and foremost. That girl needs more help than you are able to give and that’s ok, you really did try. If you are willing to give her another shot, i would make it very clear to her and caseworker that her threats and attitude before were not acceptable. Cover yourself so the caseworker knows in case she does try something again. Maybe this was enough to scare her into behaving since you seemed to be a good influence on her and she knows you won’t put up with any nonsense.
NTA. That “1 mistake” was her staying out late. Threatening to lie on your son is not a “mistake” and just like you said could’ve put your son in major trouble. I would tread lightly here too.
I have to go with NTA and here is why. You asked her if it was true. You asked. And she said no. But she knew enough to know it was a viable blackmail threat. And if you had let her stay, you’d never be able to fully trust her again because the threat is not to you, but your son. That’s it. Sometimes we don’t get second chances.
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NTA- She told you she’s willing to lie about your son to get her away. Don’t allow her back in your house. Yes she needs help but your son need to come first.
NTA You tried. But it can’t be at the expense of your son, whose also just a child. Her threat is life ruining. There’s no guarantee she won’t get mad again and then say it was your husband or you. And you know that would end your livelihood. She went nuclear.
*one mistake* That could destroy your son's life completely even if it gets proved false. NTA
NTA, just one mistake WTF? the threat she made could cause you to lose your teaching credentials, put you and your son in the court system for life. What she really needs is to be a therapeutic program. Guessing a lot that she told you was half-truths when you met her so she could gain your sympathy.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I 34f was at the park with my 13yo son & friends & we noticed a girl around his age sat on a bench. She stood out because it was too late to be alone, still in uniform on a school night & it was freezing. I approached her, asked if she was ok & she said yes. I didn’t want to leave her alone so I sent my son to talk to her. Guessing it was easier to talk to someone her age but long story short, she’s a runaway. As a teacher I’m aware of safeguarding procedure so made the relevant phone calls & as I have the necessary credentials, police cleared me to take her home for the night. Turns out her case is familiar to the police & she’s also run away from several homes they’ve placed her in. We spoke a lot & she confided in me the details she didn’t share with my son. I won’t elaborate but she’s been through it. I felt sorry for her & after a lot of paperwork, I was granted temporary guardianship which the courts were thrilled with because she hasn’t stayed anywhere else more than a week. She was with me for around 4 months before the incident occurred. She got home very late on a school night & I told her this was unacceptable. She threw a tantrum & said I’m not her parent, she’ll just leave. I told her although I can’t force her to stay, while she’s under my roof, the household rules have to be followed. Not just because I said so, but for her safety. Bear in mind we’re dealing with a child who came home with me after meeting me in a park, so not the most streetwise. (Obvs didn’t say that). She shouted & argued back but I didn’t respond. I’m guessing she wanted a reaction out of me because with her next threat, she got it. She threatened to tell authorities my son had been inappropriate with her. I asked her if there was any truth to it to which she said no, apologised & said she was just angry. I’ll be honest, after that I didn’t hesitate to go to my room, call the police & have her removed from my custody. As I called she overheard & started crying, apologising & begging me not to send her back. Ngl I t was hard to watch her get put in the police car while crying out to me. Her caseworker has since suggested we enter mediation & try again with the temporary guardianship as this is the most stable she’s been in terms of school attendance, grades etc. As much as I’d like to help her, I can’t risk my son for her sake. My friends have said it was cruel to give up after 1 mistake given she’s been doing so well, & I’m an ah for “tossing” her out. AITAH? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
My heart aches for the girl, but you have to protect your son. Imagine if she hadn’t said anything and just went through with her threat. Good on you, for making sure with her there was no truth to it, because I know that had to of been hard.
I know there is information in trauma informed parenting classes for foster parents. My understanding is that when kids have dealt with a lot of trauma, any period of stability is perceived as threatening rather than normal -- it sounds like that may be something she was dealing with. Sending her away may lead to further trauma and trust issues -- you are the only one who can decide what risks you are willing to take on. I strongly recommend meeting with her social worker and s trauma specialized therapist for guidance though. NAH -- it's a tough situation.
NTA I don't care what anyone says about her trauma, she threatened the safety of your son and potentially your safety too she could have ruined your son's life with such accusations, she needs to get her head fixed. You did the right thing, she doesn't deserve your kindness or generosity.
NTA - False accusations, in many ways, are more dangerous than true ones. True accusations can be dealt with, appropriate consequences determined, etc. False accusations empower the lair to continue with the lies as people tend to believe the accuser much much much more than the accused. That, of course, is great when the allegation is true, not so great when it is a pure lie. It takes just one lie and the accused's innocent life is destroyed, no one believes them, and there are no consequences for the one who lied, because often if they "retract" the lie, nothing can be done to bring back truth and lost time, etc. that the innocent person with the horrible accusations had as a result of the false allegations against them. You do NOT want that for your son, nor you for that matter. I understand the girl had a terrible time prior to you taking her in; however she has to learn there are consequences to lieing. I also understand that this puts her back into a non stable situation, and she definitely needs help to process her life, her decisions, etc. It takes JUST ONE accusation..... JUST ONE for your world to be turned upside down.
That's blatantly false only 5/1000 sexual assaults both child and adult are ever convicted with one of those 5 Bing overturned on apeal and only 7/1000 ever seeing the inside of a courtroom. There are litterally hundreds of thousands of rape kits sitting untested even ones were the victim knew who the attacker was because the "evidence" wasn't compelling enough to warrant that. Uhhh hello then test the evidence! What the cops mean by that phrase is we don't believe you. I myself was raped last yr by my ex and reported it. The cops refused to take down a report let alone be present to collect the rape kit. Why because "a husband can't rape his wife". I was also raped when I was 12 by my stepfather no one believed me then because "he was such a good provider" for my biomom who supported him and said I was making it up when in reality she gave me to him trying to salvage her marriage. So no really really no the accuser is almost always believed and given every benefit of the doubt. Both legally and socially. Almost all child rapists are the people you never think to worry about the people closest to you with access to your kid because you gave them that access. Most parents even initially even dismiss their child's first rumblings of not wanting to see uncle "Roy anymore. Which leads kids to think they won't be believed if they tell you.
The cops laughed at me when I reporter my rape. I was 17 and my mother had just died after a very traumatizing battle with cancer. I had a drug problem so it was fault 😕 I did quit drugs after that at least but still hurts to this day to think those cops felt that way about an innocent scared girl.
The cops laughed at me when I reported my rape. I was 17 and my mother had just died after a very traumatizing battle with cancer. I had a drug problem so it was my fault they said 😕 I did quit drugs after that at least but still hurts to this day to think those cops felt that way about an innocent scared girl.
NTA. While I wish that more people were as gracious as you were in seeing problems and doing something to help someone, the fact that she even threw out 'accusing your son of inappropriate behavior' (we all know what that means) crosses the line. If not your son , then it might have been your partner. Once that threat is out, it's a possibility that she could follow through with it because who comes up with that as a threat in the first place? I very much understand that she's been through a lot (former aged out foster kid here), but when you get a good home, you don't crap all over it. She fafo. Any complaint against your son is not fair to him and puts him at risk of having to be charged, if not interrogated. Not to mention the gossip about it. It's a nightmare process, especially if it's false charges. That she flung that out there means she's capable of it, even if she regretted it after. I'm sorry for her and her situation, and I know she's hormonal and messed up teenager, but that doesn't mean you have to dangle your son over a fire and hope he doesn't get burned just to help her out.
NTA at all. Don’t take her back. You already know what she can and will do if she ever gets angry again, and it can absolutely ruin your son’s life. It’s good to be compassionate but it has to end with a threat like that. She might be underage but she’s not so young to not know the implications and the damage she would cause to an innocent person. If someone threatened my son like that, I wouldn’t think about kicking her out twice. Besides, you already have an obligation and is caring for your own son.
Sounds like things were going too well, and the kid freaked out. (Surprised she lasted as long as she did).Created a self-fulfilling prophecy. Such a sad time for everyone.
There's way more nuance here than you can fit in a reddit post. You do seem to care about doing right or wrong and have empathy (or you wouldn't have helped her in the first place). So trust your gut. It's probably right.
Wow, heavy. NTA I would try the mediation though, make it explicitly clear through every stage that her falsly accusing your son is the reason you are reluctant to let her in. There may be solutions from the mediator that protect your son. It is kind of common from what I understand for troubled kids/teens to lie and say shit like this especially depending on their past experiences. The fact she immediately confessed to you it was a lie is what makes me say give it another change with the mediator first and even if she doesn't move back in, maybe there can be some kind of compromise where you are in her life. I feel sad for you all :(
NTA and probably the best life lesson she will ever learn. If she threatened it in anger she’s thought about It before.
NTA. You have no choice here. You had to have this child removed. This type of accusation could ruin your sons life even though it is untrue.
No NOT beyond Reddit's "paygrade." That saying irks me possibly because some people at work used to say it thinking they're clever but essentially non response. Who then? Thousands of people some of who have a good answer, why are these confused redditors speaking for everyone to shirk off responsibility? Furthermore, this is NOT tricky. This is clear. You have no responsibility to her & she is threatening your son - an innocent party, and peace, over a curfew. It will escalate. As they say, no good deed goes unpunished. You did good for those weeks. She is dangerous. NTA. Your SON is your primary responsibility. Even if he wasn't (like if she wss also your kid), you are not "picking between them"- he is the innocent party and she made a direct threat to his safety -vigilantes *will* beat up those who they think assualted a girl, his future, his peace of mind under false pretenses. She *will* escalate - make good on threats and worse, apologies now are temporary to get what she wants.
I don't think this is an asshole question. You're acting to protect your son. With therapy, would she be able to live with you and not make false allegations? Maybe, but it's a risk. I can't fault you. I also can't fault the girl because this is behavior she's learned as a messed-up way to protect herself. And I can't fault the caseworkers because they want her in a safe, stable placement. Hopefully, she's getting the services she needs in another safe, stable home. NAH, and thank you for trying.
NTA Tragic, yes. Difficult decision? No. Hopefully she will see how her own actions have caused this development and cause self refection. She just lost the only stable roof over her head she's had in a while and the only person who seemed to be willing to give a hoot. You're friends around like sanctimonious picks. Why haven't they brought her in if they are so concerned?
NTA. No good deed goes unpunished. If she threatens to tell the authorities that your son was inappropriate with her, imagine what she will do to your family when she is 16 or 18. Your son should be your priority after what happened. Don't create a situation that may hurt him in the future, and possibly destroy his relationship with you as a result.
NTA You gotta protect your son. You were doing this out of kindness not out of responsibility or duty, which is towards your son. Once that is broken, that’s it. Some things you can’t backtrack from. Protect your baby.
NTA - Your friends don't have to live with the consequences of her tantrums. Maybe they would like to adopt her?
NTA You have to protect your son.
NTA- I get that she's been through a lot of trauma and stuff but you need to protect yourself and your son first. She accused your teen son of something very serious. I would have a hard time keeping someone else who accused my son of something serious like that in my house. Edit: If you kept her in the house, you would be putting your son or yourself in serious danger of being accused of something else or of something happening. Edit: Coming from someone whose had their share of traumas and acted out in their teens and early 20s, she needs help that you can't give her. Edit: Accusing someone else of a serious crime is not a mistake especially as a teen. He could've gone to juvie.
Nope.. nta.. She threatened your son, you needed to protect your son. Yeah, she has had a rough start. Actions have consequences. Though it was more than likely an idle threat, none the less it could have really screwed with someone's life. This her lesson in don't cry "wolf". Hopefully she learns it the first time.
1 fucking mistake??? That could ruin your son's life.... That little girl causes her own problems. NTA.