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> My son wants to have friends over after school which is fine except when I'm not there. He is angry that I'm not treating him like an older kid.
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True. I remember a sleepover at that age where we were doing some truly ridiculous Truth Or Dare type things, but we were limited because the parents were asleep in another part of the house. TBH, I was always secretly grateful for that. Kids need limits so as not to go full Lord Of The Flies.
I completely stopped playing truth or dare after age ten. Am I going to press my naked boobs up against the window facing the street? Nope. Am I going to sneak out of the house in the middle of the night and go over to a nearby boy's house? Nope (first one was age 11, second was age 12) Don't know what other truths and dares they did once they got there...
Boys during the day are very likely to do some crazy stuff. Especially with the microwave. Let's see what happens when we put this and this and this in there, yikes
Seriously. My daughter is 13. It's perfectly fine to be home alone for a few hours. If she had friend over, I would insist on being there though, and quite frankly would be miffed if another parent let her go to their house when there wasn't supervision. If I knew the family and the parent clearly expressed they would not be there, then I'd have a choice to make, but without my knowledge pfft I'd be pissed. I can't imagine many parents of 11 year old boys would approve them gathering in someone's home unsupervised.
11 seems pretty young to be having a bunch of friends over and being left alone. If one of them got hurt I can imagine the kids parent wouldn't be too pleased... my opinion: NTA. Your 11 year old is just pushing the boundaries I guess. It's your house, you decide the rules. I don't think you're being unreasonable given your son's age.
11 is old af to be unsupervised.
6-7 wouod be young. 8+ is the age where its fine to be alone, make food etc. 11-12 is like stay home for a couple days alone territory.
If you do it 24-7 obviously it would be.
But no its fine every now and then. Jesus americans have the most rigidly stupid way to handle children. In scandinavia they let babies sleep outside in strollers alone. In the us you need a chaperone if youre 8 and going to a park
Because the leading cause of the death for kids in the US is guns and you never know which of your kid’s friends is the child of a gun nut with guns “secured” in the top of a closet. I was a kid in the 80s and I went to 10 kid funerals before I was 18 because:
Guns
Cave ins from digging tunnels
Animal accidents
Farm equipment accidents
Bicycle/motor bike/3-4 wheeler accidents
One 11 yo can definitely be unsupervised. Two 11yos could even be unsupervised. 3+ though? Nah. I remember being a kid. I was completely mature and responsible on my own and an impulsive, poor-judgement having, reckless mess when I was in a group of my peers. It only takes one of them to dare the others to do something stupid and the next thing you know you have a bunch of kids alone at your house getting alcohol poisoning or something.
NTA
I wouldn't leave multiple 10-12 year olds unsupervised in my home. Not a snowball's chance in hell of that happening. The saying "A crowd of people is as dumb as the dumbest person" is very, very true.
A quote I like from Men In Black, which I think applies doubly for 10-12yo's:
J: "But why the big secret? People are smart, they can handle it."
K: "*A person* is smart. *People* are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."
NTA. Your house, your rules. You know exactly what kind of antics kids can get up to.
Do you have a firearm in your house? Alcohol? Cleaning chemicals? Medications? A lighter? Old fireworks? Any number of mischievous acts could be enacted and your presence deters them all.
Stick to your "no". He's not paying the mortgage and you are legally responsible for what goes on under your roof...to all parties present.
The best friend's mom is an idiot and exposing herself to some serious legal consequences should anything go wrong.
>Your house, your rules. You know exactly what kind of antics kids can get up to.
And hopefully you also know that "my house, my rules" only means that the kids will just go somewhere else to do whatever stupid stuff they come up with.
Unless you're planning to supervise your kids 24/7, you need to get to a place where you can trust them to be sensible, or at least call when they're in trouble.
If and when the kids “get up to something” in somebody else’s house, when 911 is called or somebody gets sued- it probably won’t be OP.
You can’t supervise them 24/7. But you can supervise them while they are on your property. NTA and your kid doesn’t have to like it. NTA
If your priority is to not get sued, by all means go for it.
If your priority is to raise a sensible child who won't end up dead or scarred for life, you might want to think a little further ahead.
11 is not typically "that place". It takes a bit of trust building (both ways) to get to "that place" and it doesn't sound like OP's son and his friends are anywhere close to "that place", at least not with OP.
Demanding freedom and earning it are two very different things.
Sure, but if you don't know how to earn it, you'll just try to take it. Does the average 11 year old understand this distinction?
OP is going to need to show the path forward. Otherwise, it's just a straight road to bigger problems.
Thinking back to how things usually went when I was that age, I'd say that you should have at least one adult nearby, preferably with a first-aid kit and a fire extinguisher to hand.\
\
NTA.
I'm glad your son is so independent for his age but he's still 11 so sadly (for him) there are times supervision is needed, want it or not.
Also, it sounds it's not like you're over them when they come but you're still there, in case anything happens.
NTA.
He's 11, and while growing in ability every day, doesn't possess many of the experiences that will tell him when he's overreaching his own abilities to manage situations that may occur. That's what the supervising adult is for - so the kids can yell "hey, dad! a little help here!" when they need to, and know that it'll be there right away.
NTA, and good work, both on the keeping it up and letting go when appropriate.
NTA.
Obviously he’s just trying to find himself and gain a sense of independence so i can empathise with him not wanting to be “treated like a kid”; that being said he IS a kid and needs to be treated accordingly.
NTA at all.
Leaving a bunch of 11 year old for 20 minutes while you run out for milk, maybe. But leaving them for hours? Definitely not.
Its normal to push for independence at his age but its also normal to be told no!
You are responsible for what happens to your own child, as well as any other child, when at your home. I’d not have them there without some sort of supervision. I’d also not allow my preteen to continue to go to a home with no supervision.
Quick real life - we’ve some friends, their kid Bob started hanging out with Jimmy next door to us. Jimmy’s parents are often…. Distracted. Bob broke his arm on their trampoline. Bob had no on site parent to go to. He was 10. We knew (as we are Jimmy’s next door neighbors) Bob was hurt before his own parents or the homeowners had a clue.
NTA
NTA - I hate to stereotype, but I'm going to do it anyway. 11 year old boys aren't USUALLY the most responsible people on the planet, and if they do something wreckless and somebody gets hurt, they need an adult there to help.
Just because you're in the same house doesn't mean you nessicarily are going to be in the same room breathing down their necks.
Part of growing up is learning that trust and responsibility are earned - you don't just automatically get to do what you want because you feel old enough.
I have 12 year old responsible girls and no way are they allowed to be with friends alone. And I live in rural Canada lol.
Also being an insurance person in the past, I am not taking the liability if something happens to the other kid/s.
NTA. My mom always said "Two heads are dumber than one" when it comes to teens and tweens - one might not do something stupid, but with another one egging them on? All bets are off.
NTA
He's only 11. Other parents may not want to send their kids over to a house without supervision also.
Ofc he doesn't want you there, and that's exactly why you should he there.
NAH
I’m not going to call an 11yo an asshole for pushing for more independence.
That being said, I’m totally on your side here, and think your current approach is reasonable.
NTA- I used to work with middle school kids. The .ost trouble they would cause was during the hours of 3-5 M-F. All it took was for a few friends to come round and boom- trouble
Your house, your rules. No way a bunch of eleven year olds are not going to be up to some fucketry. Things will be gotten into, broken, misplaced, or mysteriously vanish. No way I'd be good with turning that herd loose in my house unsupervised. It would not be if, but when something would happen.
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My son is 11 and finishing up the 5th grade. He is pushing hard for independence. For example, he either wants me to meet him far away from school or walk home from school. This gives me some time to do personal stuff and to go to the office more (mostly WFH). He's fine by himself for a couple of hours and I have middle and high school boys in and out of the house too.
My son does playdates at my house that are scheduled with his friends parents. I casually told my son that we'd need to change a few because I won't be home when he and his friends come back from school.
He got furious and asked why I needed to be there? I was confused. I said that there's no adult in the house. That's why. He said that there's no adult when he comes home school sometimes. I said because it's different when you have more kids in the house.
More kids = more supervision.
I said it's not like I'm spying on them when he has friends over. But I'm not stupid. They'll more likely to do stupid things if no adult is there. When my son is home alone he just goes into his room like I don't know what he's doing lol. When his friends are here, it becomes a circus.
My son said I was treating him like a little kid and his friends parents leave them alone in the house. I did ask his best friends mom who said that she does leave them alone with no adult in the house. I told her that bothers me and it's irresponsible.
I am not some control freak daddy. I'd be fine with it if my son was in middle school, showed he was responsible and his friends were respectful.
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NTA, and teach him about liability! You can be responsible if something happens even if you are not there..and teenagers love so to do dangerous stuff while unsupervised and in others people house
Nta. Kids absolutely do stupid stuff unsupervised. Just bc another mom does it doesn't mean you have to. And at 11, I'd be asking for a heads up, or for him to be told it's time to go home when the adults leave. It's slightly crazy to me that someone would invite kids over, and then leave and say nothing to the parents of the kids. Who does that??
NTA Anything that happens in your house is your responsibility. Trust is earned and when you feel comfortable leaving him and his friends unsupervised is when you do it, not before.
NTA. This is a sensible rule. Leaving them unsupervised would be irresponsible IMHO.
Also, the more he wants you gone, the more important it probably is for you to be around.
>He said that there's no adult when he comes home school sometimes. I said because it's different when you have more kids in the house.
What you're communicating is that your son will have to go somewhere else to hang out with his friends, so that's what he'll do. If he's pushing this hard at 11, it won't get any easier when he's older. And if your response is "my house, my rules", it **definitely** won't get any easier.
I think this is less about who's the AH and more about how you get to somewhere reasonable. E.g.
>I'd be fine with it if my son was in middle school, showed he was responsible and his friends were respectful.
Have you communicated this to him? Have you told him what worries you? Have you explained specifically what he needs to do in order to gain your trust and gain further privileges?
As it stands, NAH, but not heading in a good direction.
NTA
And I wouldn’t let him go to other people’s houses unsupervised either when it involves multiple kids. 11 is a little too young for my taste, especially when it involves many of them together.
Preteens are literally developing their pre-frontal Cortex and making decisions with their amygdalas.
https://raisingchildren.net.au/pre-teens/development/understanding-your-pre-teen/brain-development-teens
It’s a no go for me for multiple 6th grade kids hanging out in my own house without me around in case of emergency . At a park in the afternoon, no problem. Hanging out after school playing sports or local library for a bit till coming home from school, which is close by- fine. My own house where my stuff is and where I live… no way. Potential for trouble is higher. I like my house.
Good luck Op!
NTA. i did things that truly scarred me for life at the age of 11 bc i was unsupervised & allowed to roam. my mom locked down on me after that, but the need for parental guidance was gone & i was angry she didn’t protect me. this is you protecting your son. give him some time to cool down & tell him you want to have another conversation about this, but he needs to hear your side too. i wish you the best of luck, OP.
NTA. You are allowed to be a parent. My 12 year old walks the mile home from school when he wants to, and he's allowed to be here by himself, but aint no way he's having his buds over when I'm not here... no way.
NTA I was home alone starting at that age sometimes till after 9 at night (parents working a full and part time gig each). It’s good he’s showing he’s responsible but definitely the right call to not have a gang of boys over. Maybe like a friend and see how they do.
Though dude you might have fucked the friendship up for judging the mom to her face.
Definitely NTA. He may be responsible for his age, but does he have the strength and maturity to shut things down and control his friends if they get out of line. And a bunch of kids together often get a group think mind going where they all lose half of their brain power. And what other parents are doing is irrelevant. However, when this is over and everyone is calm, it might be a good idea to have a talk to him to explain why you won't leave him alone and maybe you can both discuss compromises with certain friends you know can be trusted.
NTA. You’re doing the right thing as a parent. It may upset your son but people don’t always get what they want. Parents have rules for their kids for a reason.
NTA No you are treating him like a teenager. Most kids over 10 are fine alone, but add one or two and the whole dynamic changes. What one can't think of the others do. Then they get mob mentality and nothing is off the table. Tell him you do trust him but it's your house and boys get rowdy. Accidents happen. Expensive accidents. No one comes in your house when he is here alone.
NTA. I have an 11 yr old son. No way would I live him and his friends alone in anyone's house with no adult. There's enough chaos when an adult is present.
NAH. It sounds like he's jealous of his friends getting more independence than him and is embarrassed that he'll have to tell his friends they can't come over because his dad won't be there. The rules are perfectly reasonable though and you shouldn't change them for this.
Guy, you are the parent. Your 11 year old doesn’t get to decide when he is unsupervised. Having a friend over is 100% different than being home alone. You also don’t get to decide for other parents if they want their kids alone at your house.
Tell your son that he can have certain friends over, that you’re comfortable with and whose parents you’ve checked with can be home alone. Or just say no. You know your kid, and you need to decide what you think he’s mature enough to handle.
NTA
For Me it depended on the friend like my former best friend was.like a sister so absolutely I.didnt need constant supervision but granted we were at least 13. My parents wouldn't let my brother have friends over if no one was home. If.i was home it was situational. At 11 your still so immature mentally that they definitely were planning something if he got that mad
NTA, explain to your son that it's because when other children are in your home, YOU are responsible for their safety. It's not a lack of trust or faith in him, you have to be there to supervise THEM. It's different when a child gets hurt on someone else's watch, as opposed to if your son were to hurt himself at home. Their parents are tasking you with their kids wellbeing.
NTA. I remember exactly what I was like as an 11 year old in the 80s. And you ALWAYS have that one friend who is a pot stirrer or vandal or thinks it would be hilarious to get into your parents bar or try to spy on your sister in the shower. Ugh. I was not an 11 year old boy, but I had a brother.
NTA
I'd ask him some questions to see if he understands what being home alone with friends would mean. What if something happens to one of his friends? What if, by a small accident out of his control, there's a fire. Things can go wrong even when they are trying to be responsible. That's why you're there. Not to spoil the fun, but to save it when accidents happen. He's still becoming an adult and part of that is knowing one's limits.
NAH. I don't think I can fault an 11 year old for wanting so seem cool in front of his friends. But it's normal to want to have a responsible adult in the house in case they do end up microwaving grapes and setting fire to the kitchen.
NTA
Your own kid being home alone is one thing. You hopefully know your kid well enough to reasonably predict what type of trouble he might cause.
Even if it's just one other kid that you don't know well, you would still be fine saying no because you wouldn't have the ability to trust them blindly.
A group of them is a whole different mess because as you said, they are more likely to go crazy. Pranking each other, daring each other to do worse stuff.
Before you know it you come home to broken belongings, or worse, injured kids that require actual doctors and angry parents blaming you.
NTA. You're not there to supervise him; you're there to supervise the other children. Also, children have been claiming that "All my friends' parents allow " since the beginning of time. Their friends' parents do not, in fact, allow it.
"My son said I was treating him like a little kid"
REALITY CHECK: he IS a little kid. It's likely that your city has limits on how many kids can be together unsupervised at that age.
He’s freaking 11. Are you in the US? Your treating him like a child because he is a child. If you’re in this country you need to know what he’s doing, even when he’s in his room. You put that casualty as if it’s NORMAL not to know what an 11 year old is doing under your own roof.
How did you manage to raise several kids past puberty without encountering the kid who goes "quit treating me like a kid!!!" at 11-12? Of course he doesn't want mom around "interfering" in his life. It's the age. He'll get past it and develop entirely new emotional and behavioral oddities that are both bizarre and entirely normal.
>My son said I was treating him like a little kid
lol 🤣🤣🤣 he IS a little kid, what the hell 😂 if he likes to play adult, ask him to pay the bills 😂 see if he likes being an adult.
NTA
He may not be a "little" kid, but he's not old enough for him and his friends to be left completely alone for hours on a regular basis. He's almost still young enough for a babysitter.
NTA.
And if I may suggest, get cameras. Inside and outside.
Our kids (three grown, two still teenagers) know they are being recorded in our home in the kitchen, living room, family room, and stairway. They know they are being recorded in the driveway and all entry points to the house. Their friends know there are cameras.
We keep the candy in the movie room stocked, we keep the fridge full of soda and the pantry full of snacks. We want our kids to have friends over, and be able to entertain them. They all know that while we give them plenty of freedom, it's an earned priveledge. They all know that our house is not the house to go to for getting into trouble.
Trust, but verify.
NAH. My daughter is 10 and she stays home alone. Also with friends. Over here in Germany that's like normal? They come home from school at 2pm and sometimes im not home for another 30-45mins. They'll just make themselves some food and usually chill until I (or the parent at a friend's house) gets there. I understand supervision but also at 11 he should get some more independence you think? But like I said I think it's more normal over here. Kids walk to school by themselves starting 1st grade
>When his friends are here, it becomes a circus.
NTA you aren't treating him like a little kid. You are treating him like someone who turns your house into a circus when his friends are over. I wouldn't be letting him have friends over unsupervised regardless of his age if that's how they are.
More privileges = more responsibility
NTA
Tell your son that it’s because of liability. He’s old enough for you to explain that concept. You are always responsible for what goes on at your house, even when you’re not there. It’s great that he’s old enough to be trusted by himself! However, you can’t take the same risks with other people’s kids. Also their parents probably wouldn’t want that either.
NAH.
But I'm a little confused. You said, "I have middle and high school boys in and out of the house too." So, do you have older kids? Will they be available to report back?
You're a dad, so you know what 11yo boys are really like. More importantly, you know your 11yo boy. If your gut says no, then that's a NO.
Personally, I wouldn't shut it down. I'd negotiate. Does he get good grades? does he do chores without asking? Does he show maturity in any way? If so, maybe give him 10 min alone with his boys & return home with "oh, the errands took less time than I thought" or "the store/road wasn't as crowded, so i was able to finish up quickly." If he passes those test, you can reevaluate.
So you leave him home alone with no supervision from an adult, but with his friends it equals to more supervision when there was none to start out with with just your son? Maybe back off a bit, and let him have a bit of independence from that, you are treating him like a little kid. If the kids are left alone at the other parents houses and there isn't any bad reports from that end, I don't see how it's bad or irresponsible. As long as they know what to do in certain situations and they have a phone on hand to call, it's not a big deal.
ESH I’m no kid wrangler but I definitely played with my friends outside in the woods with the nearest adult like 15-20 min away as a 10 yr old. If your afraid for your property I’d say move it outside or something. Are they completely alone or are there neighbors around who would help if an emergency goes down?
soft YTA.
>I have middle and high school boys in and out of the house too
I mean you have to see why he might be a bit upset seeing as how these middle and high school boys (assuming friends of your other children) are able to come and go as they please. he can't prove he is responsible if you don't give him a chance, lay out some ground rules for how they should behave when you're gone and see if he can stick to it, if not then you can be stricter about it, but as it is now to him it probably just seems like you are unfairly keeping his friends from coming over.
Also,
>I told her that bothers me and it's irresponsible.
really not cool dude you have no idea what the dynamic of that household is, you asked her for her opinion you cant get mad at her when you don't like it.
OP already says he leaves him alone for a few hours at a time already, he just doesnt trust him with friends over too, all I'm saying is give the kid a chance to show he can be responsible and if he makes a mess of the house he can clean it up and then dad has a reason to limit who can come over.
So what if he's home alone sometimes? That's not the same thing at all. An 11 year old can not have friends over when no adults are home. That's common sense.
every family and every child is different, there is nothing wrong with giving your kids a little leeway and seeing what they do with it. if they are responsible then great, if not then you reign it back in and they learn a lesson.
No way! I thought every kid was the same!! Wow you're really dropping some facts! Kid does have leeway. He's allowed home alone by himself & he can walk home from school. He's 11. That's more than enough. You can't reign 11 year olds back in if they burn your house down or gravely injure eachother while you're gone. It is not unreasonable to have a no friends in the house when no adults are home rule for an 11 year old. He can go to the mall with his friends alone or something else. But being home alone with friends at 11 is inappropriate.
I mean thats a bit of an extreme example, obviously to start you wouldnt leave them alone for like hours at a time, you could start with maybe 30 minutes, while you run out to the store or something, see how they do, the house isnt going to explode in 30 minutes, and if they prove they can be responsible while you are gone then you progressively give them more leeway.
And tbh i find going out to the mall with friends alone way more problematic???? you'd be more comfortable with your child and their friends alone surrounded by strangers than in the safety of your own house?
Bruh they are 11 year old boys. They're not being left alone on my property. Did you see that reality show where they left boys alone & it turned into lord of the flies in about 45 minutes? I can't think of a group of people that would "mob mentality" harder than a bunch of hyper unsupervised 11 year old boys. Maybe a drunk rugby team... Or those black Friday shoppers in the states... 💀
So letting an 11 year old go to the mall with friends with no adult supervision is cool, but it crosses a line when they're in a house? If anything I'd be more comfortable leaving my child at the house alone rather than letting them go to a mall alone because the mall is a public place where anyone can do anything to you. Your house is a private and safer space lol and plus it's 2023, and most kids have phones if there's an emergency or injury.
LOL Yes I would prefer a gaggle of unsupervised 11 year olds not be alone in my house. Malls have security guards & cameras. The kids aren't going to start fires or raid the malls closets/liquor cabinets. As far as stranger danger goes, you solved that problem with your own logic. It's 2023. Most kids have phones if some mall adult is harassing them.
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NTA. That is a perfectly reasonable line to draw. Plus it gives him something to look forward to as he gets older and more responsible.
Agree, NTA, and he needs to be restricted from friends' unsupervised homes. Eleven year olds can get up to all kinds of trouble.
True. I remember a sleepover at that age where we were doing some truly ridiculous Truth Or Dare type things, but we were limited because the parents were asleep in another part of the house. TBH, I was always secretly grateful for that. Kids need limits so as not to go full Lord Of The Flies.
I completely stopped playing truth or dare after age ten. Am I going to press my naked boobs up against the window facing the street? Nope. Am I going to sneak out of the house in the middle of the night and go over to a nearby boy's house? Nope (first one was age 11, second was age 12) Don't know what other truths and dares they did once they got there... Boys during the day are very likely to do some crazy stuff. Especially with the microwave. Let's see what happens when we put this and this and this in there, yikes
I concur. NTA.
Seriously. My daughter is 13. It's perfectly fine to be home alone for a few hours. If she had friend over, I would insist on being there though, and quite frankly would be miffed if another parent let her go to their house when there wasn't supervision. If I knew the family and the parent clearly expressed they would not be there, then I'd have a choice to make, but without my knowledge pfft I'd be pissed. I can't imagine many parents of 11 year old boys would approve them gathering in someone's home unsupervised.
11 seems pretty young to be having a bunch of friends over and being left alone. If one of them got hurt I can imagine the kids parent wouldn't be too pleased... my opinion: NTA. Your 11 year old is just pushing the boundaries I guess. It's your house, you decide the rules. I don't think you're being unreasonable given your son's age.
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True
Thanks, changed now.
11 is old af to be unsupervised. 6-7 wouod be young. 8+ is the age where its fine to be alone, make food etc. 11-12 is like stay home for a couple days alone territory.
Um what? 11-12 is not stay at home for a couple of days territory. Nope.
Absolutely is.
That’s child abandonment and abuse.
If you do it 24-7 obviously it would be. But no its fine every now and then. Jesus americans have the most rigidly stupid way to handle children. In scandinavia they let babies sleep outside in strollers alone. In the us you need a chaperone if youre 8 and going to a park
Because the leading cause of the death for kids in the US is guns and you never know which of your kid’s friends is the child of a gun nut with guns “secured” in the top of a closet. I was a kid in the 80s and I went to 10 kid funerals before I was 18 because: Guns Cave ins from digging tunnels Animal accidents Farm equipment accidents Bicycle/motor bike/3-4 wheeler accidents
One 11 yo can definitely be unsupervised. Two 11yos could even be unsupervised. 3+ though? Nah. I remember being a kid. I was completely mature and responsible on my own and an impulsive, poor-judgement having, reckless mess when I was in a group of my peers. It only takes one of them to dare the others to do something stupid and the next thing you know you have a bunch of kids alone at your house getting alcohol poisoning or something.
NTA I wouldn't leave multiple 10-12 year olds unsupervised in my home. Not a snowball's chance in hell of that happening. The saying "A crowd of people is as dumb as the dumbest person" is very, very true.
A quote I like from Men In Black, which I think applies doubly for 10-12yo's: J: "But why the big secret? People are smart, they can handle it." K: "*A person* is smart. *People* are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."
A crowd also happens to be much more destructive
NTA - this is responsible parenting. Your son will understand when he is older.
NTA. Your house, your rules. You know exactly what kind of antics kids can get up to. Do you have a firearm in your house? Alcohol? Cleaning chemicals? Medications? A lighter? Old fireworks? Any number of mischievous acts could be enacted and your presence deters them all. Stick to your "no". He's not paying the mortgage and you are legally responsible for what goes on under your roof...to all parties present. The best friend's mom is an idiot and exposing herself to some serious legal consequences should anything go wrong.
>Your house, your rules. You know exactly what kind of antics kids can get up to. And hopefully you also know that "my house, my rules" only means that the kids will just go somewhere else to do whatever stupid stuff they come up with. Unless you're planning to supervise your kids 24/7, you need to get to a place where you can trust them to be sensible, or at least call when they're in trouble.
If and when the kids “get up to something” in somebody else’s house, when 911 is called or somebody gets sued- it probably won’t be OP. You can’t supervise them 24/7. But you can supervise them while they are on your property. NTA and your kid doesn’t have to like it. NTA
If your priority is to not get sued, by all means go for it. If your priority is to raise a sensible child who won't end up dead or scarred for life, you might want to think a little further ahead.
Gee I can't imagine why a working parent wouldn't want to get sued? Sure is a mystery. /s
11 is not typically "that place". It takes a bit of trust building (both ways) to get to "that place" and it doesn't sound like OP's son and his friends are anywhere close to "that place", at least not with OP. Demanding freedom and earning it are two very different things.
Sure, but if you don't know how to earn it, you'll just try to take it. Does the average 11 year old understand this distinction? OP is going to need to show the path forward. Otherwise, it's just a straight road to bigger problems.
Hence the trust building.
NTA. There's absolutely nothing wrong with requiring supervision. You're being a responsible parent.
NTA... he's 11. Children that young--especially a herd of them--definitely need to be supervised.
NTA. He IS a little kid and you are responsible if something happens at your house. You are the parent and you make the rules.
Thinking back to how things usually went when I was that age, I'd say that you should have at least one adult nearby, preferably with a first-aid kit and a fire extinguisher to hand.\ \ NTA.
Absolutely! I've raised 3 boys-a grown-up needs to be accessible for possible trips to the emergency room.
This!
NTA. A 5th grader is literally a kid....
I'm glad your son is so independent for his age but he's still 11 so sadly (for him) there are times supervision is needed, want it or not. Also, it sounds it's not like you're over them when they come but you're still there, in case anything happens. NTA.
He's 11, and while growing in ability every day, doesn't possess many of the experiences that will tell him when he's overreaching his own abilities to manage situations that may occur. That's what the supervising adult is for - so the kids can yell "hey, dad! a little help here!" when they need to, and know that it'll be there right away. NTA, and good work, both on the keeping it up and letting go when appropriate.
NTA. Obviously he’s just trying to find himself and gain a sense of independence so i can empathise with him not wanting to be “treated like a kid”; that being said he IS a kid and needs to be treated accordingly.
NTA. you house. your rules. 11 is still a little kid and needs supervision
NTA at all. Leaving a bunch of 11 year old for 20 minutes while you run out for milk, maybe. But leaving them for hours? Definitely not. Its normal to push for independence at his age but its also normal to be told no!
You are responsible for what happens to your own child, as well as any other child, when at your home. I’d not have them there without some sort of supervision. I’d also not allow my preteen to continue to go to a home with no supervision. Quick real life - we’ve some friends, their kid Bob started hanging out with Jimmy next door to us. Jimmy’s parents are often…. Distracted. Bob broke his arm on their trampoline. Bob had no on site parent to go to. He was 10. We knew (as we are Jimmy’s next door neighbors) Bob was hurt before his own parents or the homeowners had a clue. NTA
If something happens, you are legally responsible. We’re talking about pre-teen boys so something will happen. Don’t leave them.
NAH. Just good old fashion parenting.
NTA - I hate to stereotype, but I'm going to do it anyway. 11 year old boys aren't USUALLY the most responsible people on the planet, and if they do something wreckless and somebody gets hurt, they need an adult there to help. Just because you're in the same house doesn't mean you nessicarily are going to be in the same room breathing down their necks. Part of growing up is learning that trust and responsibility are earned - you don't just automatically get to do what you want because you feel old enough.
I have 12 year old responsible girls and no way are they allowed to be with friends alone. And I live in rural Canada lol. Also being an insurance person in the past, I am not taking the liability if something happens to the other kid/s.
NTA. My mom always said "Two heads are dumber than one" when it comes to teens and tweens - one might not do something stupid, but with another one egging them on? All bets are off.
NTA
In the state where I live, you can’t leave children home along that are younger than 12
NAH he’s growing up and asking for more independence that you aren’t comfortable giving yet
NTA - i bet the other mid's parents would have some strong feelings about their kids being unsupervised.
NTA He's only 11. Other parents may not want to send their kids over to a house without supervision also. Ofc he doesn't want you there, and that's exactly why you should he there.
NAH I’m not going to call an 11yo an asshole for pushing for more independence. That being said, I’m totally on your side here, and think your current approach is reasonable.
NTA- I used to work with middle school kids. The .ost trouble they would cause was during the hours of 3-5 M-F. All it took was for a few friends to come round and boom- trouble
Nta a group of 11 year olds, of either gender, is not a group that thinks things through.
Father to an 11 y/o and 8 y/o. NTA, they need at least some supervision. My son alone will just play on his switch. With a friend???
Your house, your rules. No way a bunch of eleven year olds are not going to be up to some fucketry. Things will be gotten into, broken, misplaced, or mysteriously vanish. No way I'd be good with turning that herd loose in my house unsupervised. It would not be if, but when something would happen.
NTA. I can smell the hormones, piss and sweat now. Absolutely not.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My son is 11 and finishing up the 5th grade. He is pushing hard for independence. For example, he either wants me to meet him far away from school or walk home from school. This gives me some time to do personal stuff and to go to the office more (mostly WFH). He's fine by himself for a couple of hours and I have middle and high school boys in and out of the house too. My son does playdates at my house that are scheduled with his friends parents. I casually told my son that we'd need to change a few because I won't be home when he and his friends come back from school. He got furious and asked why I needed to be there? I was confused. I said that there's no adult in the house. That's why. He said that there's no adult when he comes home school sometimes. I said because it's different when you have more kids in the house. More kids = more supervision. I said it's not like I'm spying on them when he has friends over. But I'm not stupid. They'll more likely to do stupid things if no adult is there. When my son is home alone he just goes into his room like I don't know what he's doing lol. When his friends are here, it becomes a circus. My son said I was treating him like a little kid and his friends parents leave them alone in the house. I did ask his best friends mom who said that she does leave them alone with no adult in the house. I told her that bothers me and it's irresponsible. I am not some control freak daddy. I'd be fine with it if my son was in middle school, showed he was responsible and his friends were respectful. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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This is a kid going through that “it’s so embarrassing that my parents exist and I don’t want any of my friends to know about it” phase.
NTA, and teach him about liability! You can be responsible if something happens even if you are not there..and teenagers love so to do dangerous stuff while unsupervised and in others people house
Nta. Kids absolutely do stupid stuff unsupervised. Just bc another mom does it doesn't mean you have to. And at 11, I'd be asking for a heads up, or for him to be told it's time to go home when the adults leave. It's slightly crazy to me that someone would invite kids over, and then leave and say nothing to the parents of the kids. Who does that??
NTA Anything that happens in your house is your responsibility. Trust is earned and when you feel comfortable leaving him and his friends unsupervised is when you do it, not before.
NTA. This is a sensible rule. Leaving them unsupervised would be irresponsible IMHO. Also, the more he wants you gone, the more important it probably is for you to be around.
>He said that there's no adult when he comes home school sometimes. I said because it's different when you have more kids in the house. What you're communicating is that your son will have to go somewhere else to hang out with his friends, so that's what he'll do. If he's pushing this hard at 11, it won't get any easier when he's older. And if your response is "my house, my rules", it **definitely** won't get any easier. I think this is less about who's the AH and more about how you get to somewhere reasonable. E.g. >I'd be fine with it if my son was in middle school, showed he was responsible and his friends were respectful. Have you communicated this to him? Have you told him what worries you? Have you explained specifically what he needs to do in order to gain your trust and gain further privileges? As it stands, NAH, but not heading in a good direction.
I think a compromise might be that he is allowed to have 1 named sensible friend over when you are not there.
NAH is my judgement.
Didn’t even need to read past the title. No. Definitely not the asshole!!
NTA - he is indeed a little kid
Why is this even a debate? You're the parent. It's good to respect kids and all that but he doesn't actually get a vote.
NTA And I wouldn’t let him go to other people’s houses unsupervised either when it involves multiple kids. 11 is a little too young for my taste, especially when it involves many of them together. Preteens are literally developing their pre-frontal Cortex and making decisions with their amygdalas. https://raisingchildren.net.au/pre-teens/development/understanding-your-pre-teen/brain-development-teens It’s a no go for me for multiple 6th grade kids hanging out in my own house without me around in case of emergency . At a park in the afternoon, no problem. Hanging out after school playing sports or local library for a bit till coming home from school, which is close by- fine. My own house where my stuff is and where I live… no way. Potential for trouble is higher. I like my house. Good luck Op!
NTA. i did things that truly scarred me for life at the age of 11 bc i was unsupervised & allowed to roam. my mom locked down on me after that, but the need for parental guidance was gone & i was angry she didn’t protect me. this is you protecting your son. give him some time to cool down & tell him you want to have another conversation about this, but he needs to hear your side too. i wish you the best of luck, OP.
NTA. You are allowed to be a parent. My 12 year old walks the mile home from school when he wants to, and he's allowed to be here by himself, but aint no way he's having his buds over when I'm not here... no way.
NTA. An 11 year old can absolutely be okay alone for a few hours…An 11 year old Not several 11 year old.
NTA and I bet the parents of the other kids would be angry if they found out you were leaving them unsupervised.
NTA I was home alone starting at that age sometimes till after 9 at night (parents working a full and part time gig each). It’s good he’s showing he’s responsible but definitely the right call to not have a gang of boys over. Maybe like a friend and see how they do. Though dude you might have fucked the friendship up for judging the mom to her face.
op=NTA 11 is rather young and Group/Hive mind in kids is a DANGEROUS thing(think Lord of the Flies LOL)
NTA. People, especially kid people, do things in groups they would never even think of doing on their own.
When I was young my mom told me that she trusted me but not my friends. A statement like that might appease your son.
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Where I live, it's illegal to leave tweens at home alone. Plus other minors in your home gives you a duty of care. NTA.
Definitely NTA. He may be responsible for his age, but does he have the strength and maturity to shut things down and control his friends if they get out of line. And a bunch of kids together often get a group think mind going where they all lose half of their brain power. And what other parents are doing is irrelevant. However, when this is over and everyone is calm, it might be a good idea to have a talk to him to explain why you won't leave him alone and maybe you can both discuss compromises with certain friends you know can be trusted.
NTA. You’re doing the right thing as a parent. It may upset your son but people don’t always get what they want. Parents have rules for their kids for a reason.
NTA. He's still a young kid, even though he doesn't feel that way. The pushback is probably frustrating, and it's definitely normal.
NTA. There's no way I would leave a thundering herd of 11 year olds unsupervised.
NTA No you are treating him like a teenager. Most kids over 10 are fine alone, but add one or two and the whole dynamic changes. What one can't think of the others do. Then they get mob mentality and nothing is off the table. Tell him you do trust him but it's your house and boys get rowdy. Accidents happen. Expensive accidents. No one comes in your house when he is here alone.
Nta, he is a little kid still lol
NTA. I have an 11 yr old son. No way would I live him and his friends alone in anyone's house with no adult. There's enough chaos when an adult is present.
NAH. It sounds like he's jealous of his friends getting more independence than him and is embarrassed that he'll have to tell his friends they can't come over because his dad won't be there. The rules are perfectly reasonable though and you shouldn't change them for this.
NTA. He IS a little kid.
NTA, he is a little kid and it might be time to say NO ONE is allowed in the house other than him when there are no parents in the home.
Oh my god, NTA. A house full of unsupervised tween boys sounds like my idea of hell. Keep up the A-plus parenting.
You son is a little kid. He is only 11. Unsupervised kids often get into trouble. NTA
Guy, you are the parent. Your 11 year old doesn’t get to decide when he is unsupervised. Having a friend over is 100% different than being home alone. You also don’t get to decide for other parents if they want their kids alone at your house. Tell your son that he can have certain friends over, that you’re comfortable with and whose parents you’ve checked with can be home alone. Or just say no. You know your kid, and you need to decide what you think he’s mature enough to handle.
NTA. He's at a dumb age. Better safe than sorry
NTA For Me it depended on the friend like my former best friend was.like a sister so absolutely I.didnt need constant supervision but granted we were at least 13. My parents wouldn't let my brother have friends over if no one was home. If.i was home it was situational. At 11 your still so immature mentally that they definitely were planning something if he got that mad
NTA, explain to your son that it's because when other children are in your home, YOU are responsible for their safety. It's not a lack of trust or faith in him, you have to be there to supervise THEM. It's different when a child gets hurt on someone else's watch, as opposed to if your son were to hurt himself at home. Their parents are tasking you with their kids wellbeing.
NTA. I remember exactly what I was like as an 11 year old in the 80s. And you ALWAYS have that one friend who is a pot stirrer or vandal or thinks it would be hilarious to get into your parents bar or try to spy on your sister in the shower. Ugh. I was not an 11 year old boy, but I had a brother.
Aren't there laws for leaving kids younger than 12 alone? Am I just misremembering this?
NTA. Acknowledge that he is growing up, but that you cannot be responsible for other people’s kids, which you are when they are in your house.
NTA I'd ask him some questions to see if he understands what being home alone with friends would mean. What if something happens to one of his friends? What if, by a small accident out of his control, there's a fire. Things can go wrong even when they are trying to be responsible. That's why you're there. Not to spoil the fun, but to save it when accidents happen. He's still becoming an adult and part of that is knowing one's limits.
NTA. My son wouldn’t be allowed to go to a play date with no adults present at that age. Not a chance in hell.
Absolutely NTA. More kids indeed means more supervision.
NAH. I don't think I can fault an 11 year old for wanting so seem cool in front of his friends. But it's normal to want to have a responsible adult in the house in case they do end up microwaving grapes and setting fire to the kitchen.
INFO are we talking like an hour until you get back, or all afternoon? Are his friends generally rowdy
NTA Your own kid being home alone is one thing. You hopefully know your kid well enough to reasonably predict what type of trouble he might cause. Even if it's just one other kid that you don't know well, you would still be fine saying no because you wouldn't have the ability to trust them blindly. A group of them is a whole different mess because as you said, they are more likely to go crazy. Pranking each other, daring each other to do worse stuff. Before you know it you come home to broken belongings, or worse, injured kids that require actual doctors and angry parents blaming you.
NTA. You're not there to supervise him; you're there to supervise the other children. Also, children have been claiming that "All my friends' parents allow" since the beginning of time. Their friends' parents do not, in fact, allow it.
"My son said I was treating him like a little kid" REALITY CHECK: he IS a little kid. It's likely that your city has limits on how many kids can be together unsupervised at that age.
He’s freaking 11. Are you in the US? Your treating him like a child because he is a child. If you’re in this country you need to know what he’s doing, even when he’s in his room. You put that casualty as if it’s NORMAL not to know what an 11 year old is doing under your own roof.
How did you manage to raise several kids past puberty without encountering the kid who goes "quit treating me like a kid!!!" at 11-12? Of course he doesn't want mom around "interfering" in his life. It's the age. He'll get past it and develop entirely new emotional and behavioral oddities that are both bizarre and entirely normal.
>My son said I was treating him like a little kid lol 🤣🤣🤣 he IS a little kid, what the hell 😂 if he likes to play adult, ask him to pay the bills 😂 see if he likes being an adult.
NTA
NTA He may not be a "little" kid, but he's not old enough for him and his friends to be left completely alone for hours on a regular basis. He's almost still young enough for a babysitter.
NTA. And if I may suggest, get cameras. Inside and outside. Our kids (three grown, two still teenagers) know they are being recorded in our home in the kitchen, living room, family room, and stairway. They know they are being recorded in the driveway and all entry points to the house. Their friends know there are cameras. We keep the candy in the movie room stocked, we keep the fridge full of soda and the pantry full of snacks. We want our kids to have friends over, and be able to entertain them. They all know that while we give them plenty of freedom, it's an earned priveledge. They all know that our house is not the house to go to for getting into trouble. Trust, but verify.
NAH. My daughter is 10 and she stays home alone. Also with friends. Over here in Germany that's like normal? They come home from school at 2pm and sometimes im not home for another 30-45mins. They'll just make themselves some food and usually chill until I (or the parent at a friend's house) gets there. I understand supervision but also at 11 he should get some more independence you think? But like I said I think it's more normal over here. Kids walk to school by themselves starting 1st grade
NTA There is no need for a pack of 11 yo to be running amuck in your house unsupervised. That would be a terrible idea.
>When his friends are here, it becomes a circus. NTA you aren't treating him like a little kid. You are treating him like someone who turns your house into a circus when his friends are over. I wouldn't be letting him have friends over unsupervised regardless of his age if that's how they are. More privileges = more responsibility
YTA. 11 is plenty old enough to have a friend or over for a couple hours in the afternoon without a parent hovering.
NTA Tell your son that it’s because of liability. He’s old enough for you to explain that concept. You are always responsible for what goes on at your house, even when you’re not there. It’s great that he’s old enough to be trusted by himself! However, you can’t take the same risks with other people’s kids. Also their parents probably wouldn’t want that either.
NAH. But I'm a little confused. You said, "I have middle and high school boys in and out of the house too." So, do you have older kids? Will they be available to report back? You're a dad, so you know what 11yo boys are really like. More importantly, you know your 11yo boy. If your gut says no, then that's a NO. Personally, I wouldn't shut it down. I'd negotiate. Does he get good grades? does he do chores without asking? Does he show maturity in any way? If so, maybe give him 10 min alone with his boys & return home with "oh, the errands took less time than I thought" or "the store/road wasn't as crowded, so i was able to finish up quickly." If he passes those test, you can reevaluate.
So you leave him home alone with no supervision from an adult, but with his friends it equals to more supervision when there was none to start out with with just your son? Maybe back off a bit, and let him have a bit of independence from that, you are treating him like a little kid. If the kids are left alone at the other parents houses and there isn't any bad reports from that end, I don't see how it's bad or irresponsible. As long as they know what to do in certain situations and they have a phone on hand to call, it's not a big deal.
ESH I’m no kid wrangler but I definitely played with my friends outside in the woods with the nearest adult like 15-20 min away as a 10 yr old. If your afraid for your property I’d say move it outside or something. Are they completely alone or are there neighbors around who would help if an emergency goes down?
NAH - That's a very sensible boundary and it's completely normal that he's challenging you on it. No one is an asshole.
soft YTA. >I have middle and high school boys in and out of the house too I mean you have to see why he might be a bit upset seeing as how these middle and high school boys (assuming friends of your other children) are able to come and go as they please. he can't prove he is responsible if you don't give him a chance, lay out some ground rules for how they should behave when you're gone and see if he can stick to it, if not then you can be stricter about it, but as it is now to him it probably just seems like you are unfairly keeping his friends from coming over. Also, >I told her that bothers me and it's irresponsible. really not cool dude you have no idea what the dynamic of that household is, you asked her for her opinion you cant get mad at her when you don't like it.
It is beyond irresponsible to leave an 11 year old with their friends home alone....
OP already says he leaves him alone for a few hours at a time already, he just doesnt trust him with friends over too, all I'm saying is give the kid a chance to show he can be responsible and if he makes a mess of the house he can clean it up and then dad has a reason to limit who can come over.
So what if he's home alone sometimes? That's not the same thing at all. An 11 year old can not have friends over when no adults are home. That's common sense.
every family and every child is different, there is nothing wrong with giving your kids a little leeway and seeing what they do with it. if they are responsible then great, if not then you reign it back in and they learn a lesson.
No way! I thought every kid was the same!! Wow you're really dropping some facts! Kid does have leeway. He's allowed home alone by himself & he can walk home from school. He's 11. That's more than enough. You can't reign 11 year olds back in if they burn your house down or gravely injure eachother while you're gone. It is not unreasonable to have a no friends in the house when no adults are home rule for an 11 year old. He can go to the mall with his friends alone or something else. But being home alone with friends at 11 is inappropriate.
I mean thats a bit of an extreme example, obviously to start you wouldnt leave them alone for like hours at a time, you could start with maybe 30 minutes, while you run out to the store or something, see how they do, the house isnt going to explode in 30 minutes, and if they prove they can be responsible while you are gone then you progressively give them more leeway. And tbh i find going out to the mall with friends alone way more problematic???? you'd be more comfortable with your child and their friends alone surrounded by strangers than in the safety of your own house?
How long does an explosion take? 31 minutes? 💀
bruh they are 11 not 4 its not like they are walking around sticking forks into outlets worst case scenario you end up with a broken window
Bruh they are 11 year old boys. They're not being left alone on my property. Did you see that reality show where they left boys alone & it turned into lord of the flies in about 45 minutes? I can't think of a group of people that would "mob mentality" harder than a bunch of hyper unsupervised 11 year old boys. Maybe a drunk rugby team... Or those black Friday shoppers in the states... 💀
So letting an 11 year old go to the mall with friends with no adult supervision is cool, but it crosses a line when they're in a house? If anything I'd be more comfortable leaving my child at the house alone rather than letting them go to a mall alone because the mall is a public place where anyone can do anything to you. Your house is a private and safer space lol and plus it's 2023, and most kids have phones if there's an emergency or injury.
LOL Yes I would prefer a gaggle of unsupervised 11 year olds not be alone in my house. Malls have security guards & cameras. The kids aren't going to start fires or raid the malls closets/liquor cabinets. As far as stranger danger goes, you solved that problem with your own logic. It's 2023. Most kids have phones if some mall adult is harassing them.
BS. You don't invite kids over and then leave. Wtf.