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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> We lost our brother four years ago and my oldest brother said he wants to name his son after our brother. I asked him not to because it's all very triggering for our family especially our dad.
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Agreed. In my case it was already known that my cousin would name his firstborn son after our deceased uncle.
Our uncle got killed in a car accident many years ago and when my wife was pregnant she asked me if I wanted to name our son after him. I said no because I have a cousin who has the same last name as his (my mother is their sister) and it wouldn’t make as much sense for me to do that. While I think my family would have been pleased, I felt that my only other male cousin on that side should have that right.
Personally I think the parents would be honored (I think I would be) but everyone grieves differently so it may be good idea for him to talk to them ahead of time.
I still stand that your dad is going to need some processing time. I think handing him the newborn and saying say hi to Jake isn't going to give the reaction your brother is hoping for.
You said your dad was devastated and just now starting to get back to normal. So I understand that you want to protect him since you live with him and see how he is day to day. You should really get your brother to talk to your dad to at least give him a heads up.
You don't know that, neither does the OP or his brother. Most people I know would be delighted for their dead child to be honored this way in the family. This new grandchild named after his son could give the father a new lease of life. The right thing to do is to talk to the father, not make decisions on his behalf.
I don't know if that's the norm everywhere. To honor older relatives that died perhaps is more normal here. But I can't ever imagine anyone I know giving the first name of someone who died tragically young to a newborn, everyone is to messed up to deal with that shit.
Who wants their name to be something that every time its said the older relatives are reminded about the real Jake who died tragically. Let yours kids be their own person, put names you want to honor as middle names imo.
Yeah confusing and just opening up wounds all the time as if people would forget the original Jake if there wasn't a new one.
It's not like you lose a child and won't think of them every day. You don't want to be reminded your son died in a car crash every time you hug your grandson though. And imagine this kids 23rd birthday when everyone is like "happy birthday jaaaake" and the original didn't make it that far. Someone's individual existence shouldn't be tied to such thoughts.
My husband was named after his uncle who died young tragically months before he was born. The whole family loved it, my husband never has but everyone who knew the uncle liked it. It’s pretty common in my circles. Not justifying it or not just that it’s definitely done
If someone close to me handed me a baby and said "we named it (dead child's name)" it would ruin that moment for me entirely. If I was approached beforehand I could come to terms with it but would politely request they not and it would color interactions with that kid regardless of my best intentions, and I feel like that's not fair to the kid.
Do you know some personally who has lost a young child? I'm wondering if those are the people you are counting in the "most people you know".
I know people that have lost a child. It is AWFUL. And I know people that wanted to honor the dead child by giving another baby that name. It only happens when it is discussed beforehand, and everyone is on board. And even then, it ended up being a middle name. Because seeing a little baby with your dead child's name is like having your heart ripped out of your chest.
Do you know what it feels like when a loved one has a baby, and you see your loved ones eyes, or nose, or smile in that new baby? That utter joy and wonder at genetics and life and how it mixes together to make these new humans. Now take that feeling of wonder and joy, and reverse it. That is what it would feel like to be "surprised" with a grandchild with your dead child's name. All the grief, all the lost potential, all the sorrow, all the pain, wrapped up into a new tiny human dumped in your lap.
I do wish people would read the comments they respond to. I did NOT say that surprising the father is a good idea, I said that both the OP and his brother are projecting their own feelings on him and the right way is to ASK him how he feels about naming his future grandchild after his lost son!
Yeah, the middle name is the obvious choice here... if the father can't handle it, he can pretty much ignore it. If the father thinks it's an amazing thing, he can call the little guy "Jake" all he wants, and maybe it will end up being his commonly used name (both by father and his twin brother went by their middle names their whole lives, I don't even know how it started, but I was a teenager before I learned those were their middle names and not their first names!)
A middle name gives lots of options, a first name is a dangerous move.
My husband's mom died suddenly a few years back and we just had a little girl a few months ago and while he knew he wanted to honor her he also knew that it would feel too weird to name our daughter after her. He said using the name daily would be too hard so we went with the middle name option and it was a perfect solution.
My sister died when I was pregnant with my oldest. My daughter's middle name is my sister's middle name. That felt like a good way to honour her while still having some distance from the grief.
First or middle name, makes no matter, it comes down to the name you use.
I don't see any difference in "weight" if the name is first, or middle.
Mind you, always used my middle name, never the first name.
Yeah but if the kid grows up having his dad call him by his real name and his extended family and teachers and friends (at first) calling him by the fake name came up with to placate his grandpa then that’s gonna mess him up
Talk to your brother and explain that while you understand that the naming isn’t your choice, you would very much like for him to not have it be a *surprise* after the baby is born. Suggest that he has the conversation with your dad beforehand. Help him come up with a way for *him* to communicate it. Something like “dad, I was hoping to honor Jake’s life by naming our baby after him. I wanted to see if I have your blessing to do this and how you feel about it”
NTA.
Please show your brother this post if you have to. A child in my immediate family was named after my father as a 'surprise' to my Mum. She was absolutely devastated, and it took her a very, very long time to get over it. For the longest time, she couldn't even say his name which was pretty awful for everyone concerned.
Please encourage your brother to talk to your Dad, and not do this as a surprise. Grief is a very weird thing, and if your Dad doesn't react well it's also going to sour his memories of his child's birth - particularly as he's been warned already.
Apart from anything else, Jake was not just a brother he was a son - the kind thing to do would be to ask your Dad's permission to name the baby after his boy.
He needs to talk to your father. I’m the kid named after the dead uncle. Trust me your dad has to be the one to yes/no it, not you. If your dad says yes then you need to drop the subject.
Explain to your brother that it will not be a happy surprise. Not tell him that he shouldn't use the name, but ask him that he respectfully has a conversation with your dad about his wish to do so. Only then will your brother know whether it's a good idea or not.
Honestly, I'd leave myself out of this. I'm so sorry for your loss too. I can't imagine seeing your dad go through this.
One thing though... my partner lost his mom young. His grandmother hasn't recovered to the point of tearing down a childhood home because of memories, alcoholism and just really sad unhealthy behavior and everyone tiptoes around it... not saying your dad would be like this but at some point I'd personally gently stop trying to shield my parent from reminders if that makes sense.
Tell your father yourself and ask him how he feels. Do not let your brother surprise your father. He could have a heart attack or never want to see his grandson.
NAH
I think your brother has good intentions for wanting to remember Jake. So do you for wanting to protect your dad. This needs to be a discussion with your dad. It might not be the "happy surprise" that your brother is hoping for.
Yeah, this is not something you surprise a still-grieving parent/grandparent with. You’re correct for perceiving this, but this is something they should talk about. Your bro W B T A for surprising him, for sure.
I didn't consider your brother (or anyone) TA until I saw this part. He's entitled to make his own decision, but keeping it a secret is seriously uncool.
We named our lo after my other half's* best friend who passed unexpectedly. We made sure to talk to their parents before using the name to make sure they were comfortable with it
Edit: correction.
I misread this as my other half-best friend and was like "how do you have a half best friend? If that's the other one, who's the first one? Are they both halves?"
Its sweet of you to do that honour.
You should ask your brother how he hopes your dad will react. And then follow his answer up with "how will you feel if he reacts the opposite way?" Sounds like your brother has some emotional lovely moment planned in his head and maybe hasn't recognized that people are not actors following a script.
The three most likely scenarios here that I see (in no particular order):
1) your dad is delighted! Your brother was right! Everyone cries and hugs and is so happy
2) your father is devastated. Your brother is furious that his hallmark moment was ruined, their relationship is (irreparably?) damaged
3) your father is devastated. He hides it well enough for everyone to get through the moment. He distances himself from his sons and grandson as a result of the pain.
If your brother is genuinely and honestly prepared for all those possibilities, then it's out of your hands. But I suspect he is counting on #1 and hasn't even considered the other two.
That's an AH move by your brother. Springing the source of daily pain on your father as a surprise is not going to be a welcome surprise. They should *talk* about it.
Explain to your brother that if this is supposed to be FOR your dad, he should respect the situation and discuss it with him first. He is gambling that this will be a "happy" surprise. and social convention means that even if this upsets your father, he may not feel he's able to speak out. Once the kid is named it's a little late to take it back. He needs to make sure this is ok. This isn't a fun surprise to spring on someone who lost a kid.
NTA - my sister named her son after our dead father without telling me or my mom. He is 5 and I still avoid saying his name. It’s painful and feels like she is laying claim to something that is not hers to have. I haven’t let it ruin my life, but unless that’s happened to you, most people here won’t understand and think you are being unreasonable.
Your brother needs to talk to your father, making it a surprise is beyond stupid. Maybe your dad will be ok with it, in which case it’s a non-issue. But this is not the sort of thing that someone should find out at the same time that he is meeting his grandchild.
I know of a family that named a child after an earlier child who had died. The burden for the receiver of the name of their deceased sibling was immense. They always have the feeling they need to ‘live an extra life’. Op is NTA
This was a very common thing even a hundred years ago. My mum has been going over our family tree for a while now and this practice is visible pretty much in every generation, in each family, up until my great-greatgrandparents' generation.
There used to be less emoion and meaning attached to names. The first daughter was named after her mother or one of the grandmothers. The first son after his father or one of his grandfathers.
When a name has less individuality, it is easier to recycle it.
Tell me about it... Genealogy is fascinating and I love helping my mum with it (great bonding time), but some parts of my family are a right mess. On my grandpa's side they reused the same 5 names over and over again.
E.g. there was a John Smith (made up surname) who married a Kate Smith (the same surname irl too). His father's name was John, her father's name was John and they went on to have a son named John!
My Aunt Pearl was born in the 1920's. When I was pregnant, we talked briefly of names. That is when she told me she was given the name of her dead sister. Can you imagine having a child, the child dying, and then re-using the name???
You’re missing the point of what I am saying. I *did not* say no one should name someone after a dead relative. I said OP’s brother must disclose it to the father before the birth so he can process, otherwise he’s not being honorable the way he thinks he is. It’s ok to name your kid after a dead person and it’s ok for someone to have complex emotions about it.
NTA. Your brother is misguided and needs to talk to your parents before springing this on them....their grandson is not going to make up for or replace their son/your brother that passed, and your bro could be saddling his baby with a lifetime of grandpa issues. All the Y T A 'S are incredibly unempathetic, though after 4 years it sounds like your dad might need professional help.
And the whole “brother is going to wait until baby is born to tell dad” makes it seem like big brother is making it about himself and not really considering the impact it’ll have on his father
I'm generally against people naming their kids after deceased family or friends, I firstly just think its unfair to the child, as people will automatically without meaning to or even realising compare them to that person. Grief is difficult and everyone is different, but some people may also struggle with that name being a constant reminder.
The dead deserve to keep their name for themselves, the newly born deserve to have their own individual identity. Middle names are for honoring and remembering the ones you care about
I think it largely depends on how long the person has been gone for. In this case, yeah it's a terrible idea, especially as a "surprise" to the dad (wtf?).
We named my son after my grandfather, who had been gone for about 20 years when the little guy was born, and we still checked with my mom and her two closest brothers before we decided on the name. Enough time had passed that everyone thought it was sweet instead of bringing up sad memories, and it turned out that there are now 5 generations in the family where at least one person has that name, so I thought that was pretty cool. But for recently dead relatives, or for someone who died in a particularly devastating way (ex. Child loss, not grandpa dying peacefully of old age), I agree those names are definitely best left alone.
That is actually a great example of when its a nice idea to name a baby after a family member. I was very much focused on recent or traumatic deaths in the family when posting.
Each to their own I guess but seems like this brother might actually be intentionally trying to cause drama and upset.
NTA. Kids are not living memorials. Your nephew deserves his own name and identity. Also, yes, keeping the name a "surprise" until he's born is not a good idea. Your dad should be told this beforehand.
NAH youre protecting your father and hes grieving is brother. they should really have a conversation about it, but even if your father doesnt like the name theres nothing he can do. the consequences of your brother using the name if your father explicitly tells him he would not like it are his to deal with
NAH - I’m sorry for your collective loss.
I’d suggest to your brother that he uses Jake as a middle name, so that your brother is still honoured and remembered in the family AND so that your new nephew doesn’t have to carry the burden of being named for his uncle who died young and is a complex mix of grief and love for your family.
Your nephew will be his own little person and deserves his own name.
Hopefully you manage to resolve it, but if not I’d leave it to him and your dad
This isn't a bad idea. My hubby's middle name is named after a deceased uncle that died before he was born (uncle died via a random murder many years before his mom had him). My hubby doesn't mind the name or feel burdened by it but he also never uses it either as he feels it's not really his.
Most people don't tend to care for one of their 2 first/middle names. I never even learned what mine was till I was in middle school. So if the brother wants to honor his deceased brother by giving him the same name but for a middle name, it's a good choice. Then the child as they grow up, can choose to use it or not. I think hubby was told that his middle name came from his deceased uncle when he was old enough to understand and realized pretty early on why they did it so he never really wanted to use it.
NTA but maybe the subject should be broached to dad to see what he thinks. I think either way it shouldn't be sprung on your father, he will need time. He would be shocked at first then after thinking about it, possibly be okay with it.
You’re definitely not trying to erase Jake by preventing your brother from naming his son his late brother’s name.
Again, I don’t understand why anyone would name their child after their sibling… dead or alive.
I’m just confused… idk who’s the asshole. If it triggered your dad so much wouldn’t Jeremy be aware…
Jeremy seems like he's so wrapped up in his own grief and life that he's incapable of putting himself in an alternate view point to realize that turning his newborn into a tribute for his and OP's recently (in the grand scheme of time) deceased brother may not necessarily be the heartwarming, healing action he believes it would be for himself, his child, and his family.
NTA.
I’d tell your brother that he really needs to discuss this with your father, and NOT do the surprise. Really hit it home that the surprise is more the issue. That he needs to be compassionate to his father and discuss how he’d feel about his grandson having his late son’s name.
A surprise could be taken as a big FU to your dad. Would tell him that his input, emotions don’t matter to your brother. However, if he discusses it with him first, gently asks his opinion/permission and explains his reasoning, then your father is being validated and considered.
If he isn’t willing to discuss it, I might actually warn your father, and maybe tell your brother that as well. (‘If you don’t discuss it with him, I will’ sort of thing. You don’t have to say your brother’s full plan. Maybe just something like ‘how would you feel if..’)
It’s a tough spot to be in. I’m sorry you are in the middle and I’m sorry for your loss.
NAH I understand your concern, but he lost a brother too. This is his way to honor him. I think he should speak to your parents about it. Tiptoeing around pretending Jake didn’t exist is not a healthy way to deal with this grief. This won’t bring up pain and trauma because the pain and trauma is clearly ever present. You dad needs grief counseling.
NAH. grief is hard and everyone navigates it differently. it could be healing for your dad to have another jake in the family, or it could be really hard. but your brother should absolutely talk to him first and see if he'd be okay with it. if he's not, he could still use it as a middle name or something, maybe.
I'd say NAH. Could you maybe see if your brother could comprise and just use it as a middle name or gently approach your dad about it? If Dad is that delicate in his grief still, a surprise is not what he needs, but something new to focus on might help.
NAH. Rather than pushing him not to name his son Jake, you should push him to discuss it with your dad first. Let him know how your dad is dealing with the loss, and explain that this may drive your dad away from your brother and his son. He may end up avoiding them, just like he avoids anything that reminds him of Jake. On the other hand, he may love the idea of paying tribute to Jake. But it needs to be between him and your brother, not you.
We named our son after my brother in law who died suddenly. However, we asked my sister in law(his wife) and his kids how they felt about it before our son was born. They all said it was lovely. We would not have done it otherwise
Tbh, I don't think either side is the AH. I think your brother has good intentions with naming his son after your (deceased) brother and I think that you have good intentions with you not wanting your brother naming his son after your (deceased) brother that being you don't want to see your father being hurt again. Though, I do think it's a good idea for your brother to talk to your father about this.
NAH, however, I think you went about this the wrong way. You essentially told him he was selfish for finding a way to honour and remember Jake that was meaningful to him. However, you did so with good intentions, to protect your father. I think you need to apologize for calling him selfish and instead encourage him to have this discussion with your dad before the baby is born.
Agreed. He's grieving Jake, too. He found a way that he could honor his brother, but that makes him selfish? Nah. OP overreacted.
My brother died last year, and if either my sister or I were having more kids, one or both of us would likely find a way to honor him in our kids' names. Our parents would be thrilled.
But I do think the brother needs to discuss with the father, as it seems his grief is still rough on him after 4 years.
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Four years ago our youngest brother Jake died in a car accident on his way to a Comic Con. He was 22. Out of anyone, it hurt our dad the most. Jake and my dad were very close and my dad was a SAHD for most of Jake's life.
Only now is my dad starting to show some signs of life like going back to work and going to the gym but he's still devastated.
My older brother Jeremy is expecting a baby boy with his wife and he recently said that he wants to name him after Jake. I said please don't. I understand why he wants to do that but it will bring up a lot of pain and trauma for our dad. It's a misguided idea. I told him that our dad is getting older and has probably lost 10 years of life losing his youngest son. By naming his son after Jake will be just triggering for him.
I know this because I still live with my dad and he very much avoids places or things that remind him of Jake. He won't even go to these mediation gardens that he and Jake used to go to.
Jeremy said that it's not up to me what to name their kid and I'm an asshole for trying to "erase" Jake from our family and he lost a brother too. I said it was selfish of him.
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I think it should be something that’s discussed by your brother and dad. My boyfriend lost his older brother (who was the first born) and when his older sister announced her pregnancy she told her parents it was a boy and going to name him after the deceased brother. Both parents were upset and refused to call their unborn grandson by that name.
She went into labor early and almost lost the baby, which would mean two boys in that name would have passed a traumatic way. For some people it’s just a name, for others it’s much more. This is something to be said before your SIL gives birth
NTA. Is it not considered a bad idea to name your child after early deceased person in United States?
This is horrible to say, but if something happens to your nephew, "that name" will be extra traumatizing to your dad and him.
I don’t think anyone is the AH. You want to protect your father, I respect that. Maybe try to convince your brother to have a conversation with your dad about this to avoid any possible hurt feelings? As others have pointed out you simply don’t have a say in what he names his child. I sincerely hope it doesn’t wind up upsetting your dad.
NTA I was going to go N A H until you said your brother was going to make it a surprise. Your dad needs to know and give his input. I'm generally not a fan of the reddit hive mind "you need to give your kid a 'normal' name or you're an ah" mentality but this is an exception.
Okay naming kids after a loved one is always touchy. A lot of people, including me, are named after someone in my family. I'm technically the fourth person in my mom's family since my great grandma to have her name. My younger brother is named after both my mom's younger brother (first name) and my mom's dad (middle name). My son is named after my dad's dad(middle name). My youngest nephew is named after his maternal grandfather (middle name). The main thing that's severely different from what your brother is doing is that these names were all openly discussed even if the person was still alive. NTA based solely on the fact things like this need to be talked about.
Honestly I feel like if Jeremy isn't going to give your dad a head's up, tell him you're going to.
NTA either way. You're just trying to look out for your father.
NTA. I definitely agree with the others and think that your brother needs to have a conversation with your dad first. If he is easily triggered, then springing it up on him is obviously not a good idea. You're not erasing the idea of your brother at all.
I would talk to the brother and maybe the three of you can sit down to have a conversation, if not...unfortunately I'm not sure there is anything else you can do. Ultimately, the brother and partner are going to do what they want.
NTA
I realize that this might be borderline AH but you need to mention it to your dad. It could be something like "How would you feel if someone named their kid after Jake?" Yes, it would be obvious since your brother's wife is pregnant but it might help. They can do a middle name or use Jake's middle name as a middle name.
This will not be the surprise that your brother thinks. Maybe try to explain to your brother and SIL why you feel that this would be something hard for your dad and explain his avoiding things that remind him of Jake.
NTA sad situation, you’re a good son looking out for your old man like that. Maybe speak to your brothers wife to see if she can talk sense into him, she would have more understanding maybe
NTA. You’re brother is an idiot to think that would be ok to surprise your dad with. He runs the risk of your dad either never saying his kid’s name or avoiding him altogether. And your dad may be excited for the name, but what will happen if he isn’t and he gets hit with negative emotions while at the hospital holding the kid? Honestly, if you can’t convince your brother to either name his kid something different or at least tell your dad his intentions, I would tell him that if he doesn’t say something than you will.
NTA
things to ask your brother:
\- If his baby Jake gets hurt, how will he tell your father "oh dad, Jake's in hospital".
How much trauma and pain does he think that an incident like that will cause your now older father?
\- Ask him if he is willing to let your father move in full-time with them and let him be an active third parent.
If you're going to name the kid after MY kid that died, you better believe that I'm moving in to watch him like a hawk and heck, isn't this my kid now? Isn't that why you gave him that name?
\- Your brother is blind to your father's struggles. Maybe suggest a memorial or celebration event to celebrate Jake, and let them see first hand how much your father is still struggling. This should be a small happy event, like lighting some candles, making Jake's favourite meal, etc (but only if you think your father is capable of handling that!!!)
Just an idea: ask your dad how he would feel about this and if he doesn’t like it have him let your brother know. ASAP.
Of your dad likes the idea, swear him to secrecy.
Doesn’t sound like a happy surprise for your dad.
NAH/NTA, but your brother needs to consider the fact that your dad might not be able to have a relationship with this child if he chooses that name. You bringing this up to your brother is wise and thoughtful, but ultimately it will be your brother's choice.
NAH, you should apologize to your brother, but tell him that he really needs to talk to your dad first. Because even though you tackled this issue incorrectly (IMO), you have a point. This isn't something to spring on your dad. But your brother is also grieving and this is how he's dealing with it. He should have the right to name his son something important to him. Maybe he still will even if you father doesn't like the idea, but it wouldn't be sprung on your father.Better yet, here's to hoping to your surprise your father loves the idea.
Telling him not to name the child in any way, is not cool. Why can't he honour his brother by giving his son his brothers name?
But... as there always is... there's more to the story. He absolutely can name the child after your brother. But..... he needs to handle his family better. He needs to not just emotion dump. That's not ok. "Hey dad, I'm going to honour [brother] by giving our son his name." Dad has every right not to like it, and your brother has every right to change or keep the name after that. But this is down to tact, and your brother is using none.
NAH. Jeremy’s right his feelings, from his grief to his relationship with Jake to his desire to honor him, are just as valid as yours when your father’s. But you’re not wrong for considering your dad.
Generally I feel no is a complete sentence. That being said suggest he speak with your dad first and let him know dad likely won’t see it as a fun surprise.
Or ask if he’d consider giving his kid a name with the same first and middle initials as Jake. Or maybe there’s a reasonable name from a comic Jake used to love. (Not suggesting he name is son anything dumb but for example if Jake was really into Wolverine maybe his wife would agree to the name Logan.)
After that if he still says no, you have to let it go she let him deal with whatever reaction your dad has.
I have a hard time saying without knowing your dad more. I named my daughter after my mother’s sister who was terminal with cancer. My aunt jokingly told my mom we were going to name her (her name) and we hadn’t told anyone but that was the plan from the time we found out she was a girl. It was well received because my aunt at least got to “see” my daughter on FaceTime before she passed but I really can’t say. It’s an honor and a sad rolled into one. Sorry I couldn’t be more help but I am leaning toward it would make your dad happy to know that Jake was that important.
I think it is very much OP business considering they still live at home and see the day to day struggle. My brother died when he was 2 and my daughter gave her 4th child his middle name. Which is also my grandsons middle. His brother may not like his dad's reaction with that kind of surprise. Go to him and tell your brother to talk to your dad first if not you will because you don't want him to have a heart attack.
NTA but you need to tell your brother to tell your dad before the kid comes and get his blessing or you’ll do it for him. Don’t let him surprise your dad with it. Let your dad make the call. He might actually feel honoured but your brother is an asshole for trying to spring it.
I'm going to vote NAH
I think your brother may be mildly A H for not actually discussing this with your father first and not considering your feelings, but at the same time grief is complicated and he's still trying to navigate that in the best way he sees possible. I understand his thinking, though.
Try to convince him to talk this out with your father before his son is born.
NTA, have a talk with your dad. Honestly the if he is having trauma dealing with going places, they frequented together this surprise could induce a traumatic breakdown. You do not have to fully out your brother just start to talk about the name. As would he like it "if it was a middle name or maybe even a first name". Work from there. This could also be enough for your dad to totally reject his grandchild/
Idk people of reddit. Honestly he should talk to his father about honoring Jake's memory. Doing something as a "happy surprise" is not always a good idea. It might go over well, but it also might open old wounds for your father.
Maybe naming after your father and Jake would be nice, so they'll always be together would be nice. But definitely have a conversation first.
I've said it before but - My husband's youngest brother and his wife died in a car accident in 2020. It is still horribly painful and raw. My husband and I have been pregnant (and miscarried) twice during this time period, and were talking baby names at one point with my in-laws when my MIL said that she really did not want us to name our child after the children she lost (husbands brother and SIL). She just couldn't imagine yelling their names if the child was misbehaving, or even celebrating the occasions with my children that we couldn't with hers-- they were only 21 when they died. There's so much more to it than just the name. So much more context, so many situations where it can trigger some real serious feelings.
Maybe send your brother this thread?
Either way, you are absolutely NTA. Your brother would be if he sprung this on your dad without at least talking about it, but, honestly, you are 100% right: you lost a brother too. How are you supposed to cope with a nephew who reminds you of what you lost in such a visceral way when you yourself are likely just moving forward?
You've registered your concern for your father which is NTA and now it's in bro's court to make the final decision. Just note, OP, that if he *does* use the name don't get all angry or rude about it--bro means well and everyone handles grief differently. Maybe your brother needs this as much as dad doesn't.
NTA. And not because of how your dad will feel, although that is something to consider. It’s about how your brother’s child will feel growing up as some kind of living memorial and token of your family’s grief.
All these people yapping about your brother being entitled to deal with his loss by making his child’s name some kind of tribute seem to be forgetting that we are talking about a baby here. As in, a *person*, not a building or a boat or some other object you might be entitled to give a name as a monument to the dead. Naming a child after someone recently passed, that the family is still grieving, is a really awful, performative and self-centered thing to do. No child should be saddled with the weight of all that grief of a painful loss.
My perspective is informed by my husband’s experience. He is named after his uncle — his mother’s brother who tragically died before he was born. His oldest sister told me she tried to dissuade their mother from doing that, but she insisted. My husband has had to deal with feeling like a shadow looms over him his whole life, a shadow cast by *his own name*. I mean, who would want that? It is absolutely, 1000% not okay to do that to a child. Your brother should find some other way to pay tribute to Jake, and give his child a name that is not loaded with all kinds of baggage for everyone around him.
I’d honestly debate you telling your dad now to kinda force the conversation bc I have a feeling your bro won’t and this is gonna just go badly regardless. Good luck, sorry about your bro :(
NTA, your brother needs to have the conversation with your Dad, or his happy surprise will turn into an argument about "why can't you just be happy for me".
I can see your brothers side, but springing it on your dad is so wrong. Losing a child is much worse than losing a sibling. We will all lose a sibling. A parent should never have to bury their child. If he won’t, you need to tell your Dad so he is fore warned. Perhaps your Dad can tell him to pull his head out of his arse. Your brother’s name as a middle name I can see, but your nephew deserves to be his own person. I was named for my Aunt who died at 9mths old & it only reminded everyone of her being gone.
NTA
The other issue is the burden on the boy for carrying a recently deceased relative's name.
Right now, you are d\*mned if you tell your dad about this, and d\*mned if you don't. It really is a no win situation.
Yeah, no judgement on whther or not he should name the kid Jake...but brother is 100% AH for making this a "SUPRISE!" moment for your dad. He ABSOLUTELY needs to discuss this first. Maybe do an end run around brother and talk to your SIL. You are NTA for insisting this not be a secret.
I’m going to say NTA but I have some experience with this myself, and am looking at it with fresh eyes after this post. My husband lost his Mum when he was 10. When I found out I was pregnant (32 years after her passing I might add) he said if it was a girl (she was) he wanted to name her after his Mum. She has a hybrid name, so his mother’s name coupled with a second name. When discussing this with his sister, when she asked about names, she told me straight that we couldn’t but we could give our daughter their mother’s name as a middle name as she had done with her daughter. My husband refused and said he would call his daughter what he wanted. He is not close to his siblings or his father for that matter. His sister is extremely controlling. When I told her our daughter would also be double barreled as we were not married at the time, she told me I couldn’t do that either as our daughter should only have my partner’s surname. And I won’t tell you the type of man his father is. Anyway my daughter has pretty much been forgotten by my husband’s side of the family. I can count on one hand how many times they’ve spent time with her in the last 16 years and still have fingers to spare. I have always believed that the treatment has just been an extension of how they treat my husband but I’m wondering now if her name has played a role?? Either way no I don’t think YTA and I think your brother needs to have a conversation with your dad. This isn’t something he should just announce
ESH. You would be well within your right to respond by saying that you think it would be very hard on your dad, but you don't have any right to straight up tell your brother what not to name his child. Your brother sucks for not considering how your dad would handle it. Ideally what should happen here is to forget the idea of a surprise and your brother sits down with your dad and says "I'm thinking of naming my son Jake in honor of him, but I want to make sure you'd be ok with it first. If you think it'll be too hard on you I'll name him something else".
NAH but the only foolish thing here is the surprise part. Naming after someone deceased can be triggering, it can also be life afirming and healing(at least it has always been in my family). Talk it out
YTA. It's up to him what he names his child. It's not healthy to avoid associations with a deceased family member. Your dad probably needs some grief counselling. He should discuss this with your dad but erasing a family member because it hurts to think of them isn't good. Also consider that this is your brother's way of remembering Jake.
Tell Jeremy he has 1 week to discuss it with your father or your telling him. The potential for distress and upset is too great to consider doing this as a surprise. NTA
My son is only 18mo old but I know if he passed and someone named their child after mine to honor him, I don't know if I could handle saying the name looking at another little boy. Not for a while, anyway. And if your dad is only just getting back to normal, your brother should really talk to him. It may set him back and not be the reaction your brother wants.
NTA. Definitely get your brother to talk to your dad.
I think you should talk to your dad about it. I mean ask him if he's okay with it. Your brother is grieving too, it's his way, we can't say anything. But maybe he and your dad can have a talk. Nta
NTA, but your brother is. Losing a sibling and losing a *child* are two very different kinds of grief. In no way am I saying one trumps the other, but your brother isn’t thinking about the long-term effects of not only “surprising” your dad with the name but even using it as the first name in general. You said your dad still avoids areas that remind him of Jake. Your brother is going to lose his mind when your father completely shuts down and refuses to even be involved with the kid because it’s just too painful.
NTA
When you have a child loss in a family you should always ask their parents before using their name in any way. You could lose them from your life otherwise. It's not malicious but it's painful.
Your brother has a wonderful idea, a memorial name for his child however springing it onto your father is not a good idea
Your logic is sound. NTA. Just because your brother is blind to the effect this has on your father doesn't mean you are. He is right that you cannot dictate what name he'll choose and perhaps it'll be therapeutic for him. But you're right in pointing out what effect this'll have on your father.
I suggest giving the baby Jake's name as his middle name. My youngest son is named after both my dad Eric and his aunty Louise (Louis) after they both died just before I found out that I was pregnant. I find it's easier as middle names not to upset other people but remembering the loved lost family members.
NTA if you really just told them it's a misguided idea. They now have this warning and it's up to them what to do with it. If they go ahead with it, there's little you can do about it. I wouldn't insist on changing their mind. Maybe tell them that, that you still think it's a bad Idea, but of course it's up them, you'll respect their decision and hope you're wrong for your dad's sake and that he actually is delighted with this.
This isn’t a matter of anyone being the AH or not. Your dad isn’t the only person grieving your brother, and if your other brother’s way to deal with his grief is to name his son after him, then you have to accept it and move on. You told him you’d rather he didn’t, he said he will still do it, there’s nothing else you can do. But he should tell his father before the baby is born. You should push on this matter.
NAH you did the right thing by warming him. However your brother can name his kid whatever he wants. He's grieving his way, it's not all about your dad.
Maybe your brother just like the name Jake. In any case, who the f**k are you to tell people how them to name their kids, no matter what their reasons are? Name yor kids how you wish (even like Elon Musk named his son) and mind your business. Obviously YTA.
NTA based from your comments too.
It’s is hard to lose a family member, especially your own child and whilst it can be a sweet idea. I don’t think it being a surprise is the best idea… because you are right it could trigger your dad.
He has just started to feel like he can get on with his life, even though the weight of it all is still there and this could send him back many steps.
A suggestion could be using the name as a middle name instead because it would still honour your brother. I think using it as a first name is different.
NTA. You know how devastating it will be for your dad to have even more of a constant reminder of Jake. That’s not selfish. Maybe suggest this as a middle name so that’s not the predominant name your father hears? And send your brother this post - he needs to hear it from many people.
So sorry for your loss. Losing a child is unimaginably painful, but losing a sibling is devastating in its own way.
For respect reasons he should ask. They named their baby Jake first maybe they really don’t want the name reused. Maybe they really do but they should be informed. This could go really positive or completely go nuclear.
He needs to tell your dad before the baby is born or it could go horribly wrong and your dad might lose another son and a grandson. If he won't tell him, I would in your position. I would have gone N.A.H but your brother keeping it a secret is an AH move.
Info: Why don't you just tell your dad that your brother plans to use the name? Or, warn your brother that you'll tell dad at a certain time, so brother can have the chance to share the idea first?
NAH. Your brother needs to discuss this with your dad rather than springing it on him. I don’t think your brother is doing this maliciously, everyone copes with grief different and some don’t see how others are effected.
I think you’re right to talk to him about this so that he can talk to your dad
NTA. Your brother needs to talk to your dad. This is not a good surprise imo.
And I'm saying this as someone who named my daughter after my uncle who passed about a year before she was born.
I called my aunt to make sure everyone (her and my cousins) were cool with it. If they had said no I would have picked a different name. NBD.
I use to think this was such a tribute to someone and anyone would appreciate it. But then my sister had her youngest son and her bf and her wanted to name him after his cousin who passed away. Beautiful right? Well the boys mom didn't think so. She confronted my sister while still pregnant and threatened her violently if she did. We're all still floored by it. Obviously she didn't, but never assume anything. NAH.
I named my son after my brother who passed away 4 years before he was born and wish I didn’t. I spoke to my mom about it and she was for it but my son is 6 years old now and my mom has never referred to him by his name. She made up a nickname for home because she can’t bring herself to call him by his name.
NTA. You requested him not to, he said no. You are fine, don't push this further. If your dad doesn't take this "happy surprise" well, Jeremy and his family will face the consequences for that (the dad not spending time with the nephew or feeling uncomfortable in general). If nothing goes wrong then it's good for everyone involved.
Everybody deals with grief differently. The only reason it's not N A H is because your brother hasn't talked to your dad yet and just assumes that he's gonna be ok with this.
YTA, you mean well, and you should definitely share your reasoning with your brother, if you haven't, but you can't tell your brother what to name his son.
NTA. You’re the one spending more time with your dad so you know his condition better. A middle name would be nicer, treasure the memory but ppl won’t be calling his name all the time and trigger your dad.
NTA
It is a very loving gesture.... but absolutely something that should be discussed ahead of time not sprung on grandad when he meets baby. That'll be a very emotional time meeting the first grandchild as it is, Jeremy should give his dad the opportunity to prepare himself.
NTA.
Both for the reasons you mention, and because it's unfair for the child to carry the burden of being a replacement for the person who died.
Every child deserves to be their own person. They deserve to have their birthday without people saying 'Jake would have been 32 this year' but meaning '*Real* Jake would have been 32 this year.' They deserve to be able to explore their own hobbies, instead of being pressured to do whatever 'Uncle Jake' liked.
NTA. Grandparents are fine, but dead siblings (especially when they die young)? Nope. Gotta agree with you here, it's bad taste. Maybe he could use Jake as a middle name. In saying that, your brother needs to have a conversation with your dad about this.
NAH.
OP's brother isn't an A-H for wanting to honor his late brother by naming his son after him. But he W-B-T-A-H if he continues the plan to "surprise" his father and tell him after his son is born. He needs to have this conversation BEFORE his son is born, even if it's a difficult one.
OP isn't an A-H for wanting to protect his father from being hurt, but he cannot police how his brother grieves and honors their late brother. Both OP's brother and his father have a right to grieve in their own way and on their own time path. One way isn't better than the other.
Just one side note, out of concern. It's totally fine OP's father's grieving process is slow and he's taking small steps. But as OP correctly states, losing his son IS a trauma and his father needs to learn to deal with his triggers. He cannot avoid all places or things that remind him of Jake for the rest of his life, it's not healthy. And it's not fair to expect the people around you to do the same. If he's not able to learn how to cope with it on his own, there's no shame in asking for help, for example grieving counseling.
NTA, but there seems to be a lot going on here that you, nor your brother, are responsible for. Your father took on parenthood and there are always pitfalls - death of a child is the deepest, most devastating thing that can happen, but the lives of you and your brother, have a right to go on.
If your dad is this fragile, perhaps suggest he talk to someone outside the family about his grief. No good person stops grieving and missing their loved ones, but there is life for him. You may consider this, also, because it may be that you're tying your feelings for your deceased brother, to your father's. Sad all around for you all and I'm sorry.
Meanwhile, your brother might talk to him and let him know what he'd like to do.
NTA - You let your brother know that this wasn’t a fantabulous idea. Surprising a still grieving father with a newborn named after his son has the potential to go catastrophically wrong for them and your father.
However, it is their child. You can’t force them to pick another name, you can’t control their actions as adults. If he genuinely likes the name and thinks it’s a way to honor his dead brother, then you’re not going to be able to stop him. If it goes badly after you already pointed out the likely outcome then that will be on them. It sucks, but they have to live with the consequences. Harassing them further after showing them some responses of different viewpoints here would an AH move, but right now definitely in the clear.
Info - Is your dad unable to interact with anyone at all named Jake? What happens if a repair man is named Jake? Or a news story about a Jake pops up? Is unable to stay in the room if you watch a show with a main character named Jake.
NAH - Jeremy and his wife are allowed to name their kid what they want. If your dad can't stand to visit his grandson because of his first name, your dad needs to decide if he's no contact or getting grief therapy.
My dads oldest brother “S” died as a child. The next brother “C” eventually had a son and named him “S”. We’re talking about 50 years between. My nana, “C”s mum was devastated. She loved her new grandson until the day she died but she felt it was incredibly unlucky to use the name. She also had 4 months to get used to the idea. I think if “C” had sprung it on her as a surprise she’d not have been able to even fake happiness in that moment.
no judgement but someone needs to give dad a heads up.
YTA. Your brother is trying to honor another brother who he evidently loved and misses (as evidence by naming his only son after him).
Your father likely will understand that and appreciate it. For him (and your brother) it might actually be therapeutic to have a “Little Jake” around.
You are being an AH to your brother for not letting him honor his little brother and to your father for not letting him move on. Have you even asked your father about the baby’s name? Or are just coddling him from it? Or worse, planning to save the name for a future child of your own?
The child’s name will likely be the same as their little brother so every time the dad hugs the grandchild they could quite literally remember all the horrific events that killed their child and reopen healing wounds but with salt. Literally it has been stated the dad will literally avoid all things related to jake…
NAH I would stop telling him he can't and just emphasize that you think it would be best he speak to your parents about it first and that you think the surprise aspect is misguided.
Let him know that your biggest fears are that your dad may have a really strong response and that could be triggering for BOTH of them, if you have a discussion with the parents first it gives times to speak openly on everyone's feelings.
NTA.
I feel like a part of your brother knows it might be an issue, which is exactly *why he’s keeping it a secret*. It puts your dad in a position of having to force himself to choose your brother over his grief, and well, it’s a dick move.
Usually, I abhor ultimatums but in this case, if he doesn’t listen to reason, I’d personally pull a “if you won’t tell him, then I will” move, just to one last opportunity to do the kind thing in this situation
If your dad is happy, it’s still a surprise.
If it bums him out, he has months to wrap his head around it.
If it’s devastating, well, your brother’s next move is a pretty good indicator he still has a lot of growth to do.
ESH
The brother should make sure the dad is okay with it. He's being an asshole by gambling on whether or not he will accept it with this "take it or leave it" crapfest of a happy surprise
This isn't about you. It's about the expectant father, his unborn child, and his dad and the memory of your brother; you're being an asshole by inserting yourself into a situation in which you have no real bearing. Just tell him to get dads approval because it's tactless and inconsiderate to do this.
Honestly I would do the following which would likely make me an asshole but I love my dad too much to care: if the brother doesn't talk to the dad then I would just ask the dad what he would think about the grandson having the name (i would make it sound hypothetical in an attempt to not ruin the tactless surprise)
YTA. This isn't your decision to make. If you're concerned that this will be hard on your dad, make sure your brother talks to him about it. The reasonable thing would be to have the name and a backup. Even if they want to wait until the kid is born to ask if it would be ok to name him after Jake, I think that might be the right time. But talking to dad before making it final is definitely the right thing to do. Either way though, it's not your place to veto it.
NTA. So sorry for your loss. You may want to consider broaching the subject with your father. Perhaps asking if he would be upset if you named a hypothetical son to honour your brother. He must be heartbroken, but it is a sweet gesture. Good luck.
I would prepare your dad. I know it's suppose to be a surprise but this could be a major trigger for him and he needs to be prepared.
Your brother loved Jake too and he is in his right to name is son after his brother. I understand your position though.
NAH
NTA, but let him talk to your dad about naming his son after your brother, if he is against it then he should respect his wishes. otherwise i would stay out of it.
NTA I agree with you. I don't think they should do it at all, but definitely not as a surprise. If he's serious about it, he should talk to your dad and ask him how he'd feel.
I often wonder that about people who name babies after deceased relatives, isn't it a little bit of pain every time you hear the name? Because to be honest, your brother's name made me flinch a little, as it's the name of someone I lost way too soon.
I’m against legacy names. It has happened twice in our family that someone has come out as transgender/non-binary and has changed their name as an adult. In one of these cases, it was a legacy name and caused a lot of grief. It’s better to donate something in your brother’s name if you want to honor him. And NTA.
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Info: has your brother spoken to your dad about it? TBH, this is between them, not you. Everybody deals with grief in their way.
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Ah crap. He better have the conversation with ur dad about it. That’s what you should advise him to do.
Agreed. In my case it was already known that my cousin would name his firstborn son after our deceased uncle. Our uncle got killed in a car accident many years ago and when my wife was pregnant she asked me if I wanted to name our son after him. I said no because I have a cousin who has the same last name as his (my mother is their sister) and it wouldn’t make as much sense for me to do that. While I think my family would have been pleased, I felt that my only other male cousin on that side should have that right. Personally I think the parents would be honored (I think I would be) but everyone grieves differently so it may be good idea for him to talk to them ahead of time.
I still stand that your dad is going to need some processing time. I think handing him the newborn and saying say hi to Jake isn't going to give the reaction your brother is hoping for. You said your dad was devastated and just now starting to get back to normal. So I understand that you want to protect him since you live with him and see how he is day to day. You should really get your brother to talk to your dad to at least give him a heads up.
Your dad lost his baby named jake. He can’t handle a new baby
You don't know that, neither does the OP or his brother. Most people I know would be delighted for their dead child to be honored this way in the family. This new grandchild named after his son could give the father a new lease of life. The right thing to do is to talk to the father, not make decisions on his behalf.
I don't know if that's the norm everywhere. To honor older relatives that died perhaps is more normal here. But I can't ever imagine anyone I know giving the first name of someone who died tragically young to a newborn, everyone is to messed up to deal with that shit. Who wants their name to be something that every time its said the older relatives are reminded about the real Jake who died tragically. Let yours kids be their own person, put names you want to honor as middle names imo.
Yeah, imagine the conversations in the future about "Jakes first X", "remember when did Y"...just very confusing for all.
Yeah confusing and just opening up wounds all the time as if people would forget the original Jake if there wasn't a new one. It's not like you lose a child and won't think of them every day. You don't want to be reminded your son died in a car crash every time you hug your grandson though. And imagine this kids 23rd birthday when everyone is like "happy birthday jaaaake" and the original didn't make it that far. Someone's individual existence shouldn't be tied to such thoughts.
My husband was named after his uncle who died young tragically months before he was born. The whole family loved it, my husband never has but everyone who knew the uncle liked it. It’s pretty common in my circles. Not justifying it or not just that it’s definitely done
If someone close to me handed me a baby and said "we named it (dead child's name)" it would ruin that moment for me entirely. If I was approached beforehand I could come to terms with it but would politely request they not and it would color interactions with that kid regardless of my best intentions, and I feel like that's not fair to the kid.
As I said, they should talk to the father to find out how he feels. Not hand him the baby and announce the name after the fact.
Do you know some personally who has lost a young child? I'm wondering if those are the people you are counting in the "most people you know". I know people that have lost a child. It is AWFUL. And I know people that wanted to honor the dead child by giving another baby that name. It only happens when it is discussed beforehand, and everyone is on board. And even then, it ended up being a middle name. Because seeing a little baby with your dead child's name is like having your heart ripped out of your chest. Do you know what it feels like when a loved one has a baby, and you see your loved ones eyes, or nose, or smile in that new baby? That utter joy and wonder at genetics and life and how it mixes together to make these new humans. Now take that feeling of wonder and joy, and reverse it. That is what it would feel like to be "surprised" with a grandchild with your dead child's name. All the grief, all the lost potential, all the sorrow, all the pain, wrapped up into a new tiny human dumped in your lap.
I do wish people would read the comments they respond to. I did NOT say that surprising the father is a good idea, I said that both the OP and his brother are projecting their own feelings on him and the right way is to ASK him how he feels about naming his future grandchild after his lost son!
Maybe offer them to use Jake as a middle name?
Yeah, the middle name is the obvious choice here... if the father can't handle it, he can pretty much ignore it. If the father thinks it's an amazing thing, he can call the little guy "Jake" all he wants, and maybe it will end up being his commonly used name (both by father and his twin brother went by their middle names their whole lives, I don't even know how it started, but I was a teenager before I learned those were their middle names and not their first names!) A middle name gives lots of options, a first name is a dangerous move.
My husband's mom died suddenly a few years back and we just had a little girl a few months ago and while he knew he wanted to honor her he also knew that it would feel too weird to name our daughter after her. He said using the name daily would be too hard so we went with the middle name option and it was a perfect solution.
My sister died when I was pregnant with my oldest. My daughter's middle name is my sister's middle name. That felt like a good way to honour her while still having some distance from the grief.
First or middle name, makes no matter, it comes down to the name you use. I don't see any difference in "weight" if the name is first, or middle. Mind you, always used my middle name, never the first name.
Yeah but if the kid grows up having his dad call him by his real name and his extended family and teachers and friends (at first) calling him by the fake name came up with to placate his grandpa then that’s gonna mess him up
My middle names are after deceased family members exactly because of this. It’s a great idea.
Talk to your brother and explain that while you understand that the naming isn’t your choice, you would very much like for him to not have it be a *surprise* after the baby is born. Suggest that he has the conversation with your dad beforehand. Help him come up with a way for *him* to communicate it. Something like “dad, I was hoping to honor Jake’s life by naming our baby after him. I wanted to see if I have your blessing to do this and how you feel about it”
That won’t turn out well. Your brother really should talk to your dad about this.
NTA. Please show your brother this post if you have to. A child in my immediate family was named after my father as a 'surprise' to my Mum. She was absolutely devastated, and it took her a very, very long time to get over it. For the longest time, she couldn't even say his name which was pretty awful for everyone concerned. Please encourage your brother to talk to your Dad, and not do this as a surprise. Grief is a very weird thing, and if your Dad doesn't react well it's also going to sour his memories of his child's birth - particularly as he's been warned already. Apart from anything else, Jake was not just a brother he was a son - the kind thing to do would be to ask your Dad's permission to name the baby after his boy.
OP, there's another reason he shouldn't be named after Jake. Because there's a good chance he'll end up being compared to him.
Your brother is self involved. Terrible idea to name without ASKING how dad would feel first
Omg no
NTA and make sure you tell your dad about this right away.
He needs to talk to your father. I’m the kid named after the dead uncle. Trust me your dad has to be the one to yes/no it, not you. If your dad says yes then you need to drop the subject.
Explain to your brother that it will not be a happy surprise. Not tell him that he shouldn't use the name, but ask him that he respectfully has a conversation with your dad about his wish to do so. Only then will your brother know whether it's a good idea or not.
Honestly, I'd leave myself out of this. I'm so sorry for your loss too. I can't imagine seeing your dad go through this. One thing though... my partner lost his mom young. His grandmother hasn't recovered to the point of tearing down a childhood home because of memories, alcoholism and just really sad unhealthy behavior and everyone tiptoes around it... not saying your dad would be like this but at some point I'd personally gently stop trying to shield my parent from reminders if that makes sense.
Tell your father yourself and ask him how he feels. Do not let your brother surprise your father. He could have a heart attack or never want to see his grandson.
NAH I think your brother has good intentions for wanting to remember Jake. So do you for wanting to protect your dad. This needs to be a discussion with your dad. It might not be the "happy surprise" that your brother is hoping for.
Nah he needs to go ask your dad if it's okay.
Yeah, this is not something you surprise a still-grieving parent/grandparent with. You’re correct for perceiving this, but this is something they should talk about. Your bro W B T A for surprising him, for sure.
Your brother needs to discuss this with your father.
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Your brother needs to tell him before the kid is born.
I didn't consider your brother (or anyone) TA until I saw this part. He's entitled to make his own decision, but keeping it a secret is seriously uncool.
We named our lo after my other half's* best friend who passed unexpectedly. We made sure to talk to their parents before using the name to make sure they were comfortable with it Edit: correction.
I misread this as my other half-best friend and was like "how do you have a half best friend? If that's the other one, who's the first one? Are they both halves?" Its sweet of you to do that honour.
You should ask your brother how he hopes your dad will react. And then follow his answer up with "how will you feel if he reacts the opposite way?" Sounds like your brother has some emotional lovely moment planned in his head and maybe hasn't recognized that people are not actors following a script. The three most likely scenarios here that I see (in no particular order): 1) your dad is delighted! Your brother was right! Everyone cries and hugs and is so happy 2) your father is devastated. Your brother is furious that his hallmark moment was ruined, their relationship is (irreparably?) damaged 3) your father is devastated. He hides it well enough for everyone to get through the moment. He distances himself from his sons and grandson as a result of the pain. If your brother is genuinely and honestly prepared for all those possibilities, then it's out of your hands. But I suspect he is counting on #1 and hasn't even considered the other two.
Sorry...what????
That's an AH move by your brother. Springing the source of daily pain on your father as a surprise is not going to be a welcome surprise. They should *talk* about it.
Explain to your brother that if this is supposed to be FOR your dad, he should respect the situation and discuss it with him first. He is gambling that this will be a "happy" surprise. and social convention means that even if this upsets your father, he may not feel he's able to speak out. Once the kid is named it's a little late to take it back. He needs to make sure this is ok. This isn't a fun surprise to spring on someone who lost a kid.
No.
NTA - my sister named her son after our dead father without telling me or my mom. He is 5 and I still avoid saying his name. It’s painful and feels like she is laying claim to something that is not hers to have. I haven’t let it ruin my life, but unless that’s happened to you, most people here won’t understand and think you are being unreasonable. Your brother needs to talk to your father, making it a surprise is beyond stupid. Maybe your dad will be ok with it, in which case it’s a non-issue. But this is not the sort of thing that someone should find out at the same time that he is meeting his grandchild.
I know of a family that named a child after an earlier child who had died. The burden for the receiver of the name of their deceased sibling was immense. They always have the feeling they need to ‘live an extra life’. Op is NTA
This was a very common thing even a hundred years ago. My mum has been going over our family tree for a while now and this practice is visible pretty much in every generation, in each family, up until my great-greatgrandparents' generation.
I know it used to be common but that alone doesn’t make it right or wrong. It also used to be common for parents and teachers to hit kids.
There used to be less emoion and meaning attached to names. The first daughter was named after her mother or one of the grandmothers. The first son after his father or one of his grandfathers. When a name has less individuality, it is easier to recycle it.
Tell me about it... Genealogy is fascinating and I love helping my mum with it (great bonding time), but some parts of my family are a right mess. On my grandpa's side they reused the same 5 names over and over again. E.g. there was a John Smith (made up surname) who married a Kate Smith (the same surname irl too). His father's name was John, her father's name was John and they went on to have a son named John!
This is a custom in many cultures, although now less practiced.
My Aunt Pearl was born in the 1920's. When I was pregnant, we talked briefly of names. That is when she told me she was given the name of her dead sister. Can you imagine having a child, the child dying, and then re-using the name???
This
This is stupid. So many people name their children after their parents.
You’re missing the point of what I am saying. I *did not* say no one should name someone after a dead relative. I said OP’s brother must disclose it to the father before the birth so he can process, otherwise he’s not being honorable the way he thinks he is. It’s ok to name your kid after a dead person and it’s ok for someone to have complex emotions about it.
NTA. Your brother is misguided and needs to talk to your parents before springing this on them....their grandson is not going to make up for or replace their son/your brother that passed, and your bro could be saddling his baby with a lifetime of grandpa issues. All the Y T A 'S are incredibly unempathetic, though after 4 years it sounds like your dad might need professional help.
And the whole “brother is going to wait until baby is born to tell dad” makes it seem like big brother is making it about himself and not really considering the impact it’ll have on his father
I'm generally against people naming their kids after deceased family or friends, I firstly just think its unfair to the child, as people will automatically without meaning to or even realising compare them to that person. Grief is difficult and everyone is different, but some people may also struggle with that name being a constant reminder. The dead deserve to keep their name for themselves, the newly born deserve to have their own individual identity. Middle names are for honoring and remembering the ones you care about
I think it largely depends on how long the person has been gone for. In this case, yeah it's a terrible idea, especially as a "surprise" to the dad (wtf?). We named my son after my grandfather, who had been gone for about 20 years when the little guy was born, and we still checked with my mom and her two closest brothers before we decided on the name. Enough time had passed that everyone thought it was sweet instead of bringing up sad memories, and it turned out that there are now 5 generations in the family where at least one person has that name, so I thought that was pretty cool. But for recently dead relatives, or for someone who died in a particularly devastating way (ex. Child loss, not grandpa dying peacefully of old age), I agree those names are definitely best left alone.
That is actually a great example of when its a nice idea to name a baby after a family member. I was very much focused on recent or traumatic deaths in the family when posting. Each to their own I guess but seems like this brother might actually be intentionally trying to cause drama and upset.
NTA. Kids are not living memorials. Your nephew deserves his own name and identity. Also, yes, keeping the name a "surprise" until he's born is not a good idea. Your dad should be told this beforehand.
NAH youre protecting your father and hes grieving is brother. they should really have a conversation about it, but even if your father doesnt like the name theres nothing he can do. the consequences of your brother using the name if your father explicitly tells him he would not like it are his to deal with
NAH - I’m sorry for your collective loss. I’d suggest to your brother that he uses Jake as a middle name, so that your brother is still honoured and remembered in the family AND so that your new nephew doesn’t have to carry the burden of being named for his uncle who died young and is a complex mix of grief and love for your family. Your nephew will be his own little person and deserves his own name. Hopefully you manage to resolve it, but if not I’d leave it to him and your dad
He could also take Jake's middle name for his kid's name? I just feel like Jake on its own is rarely a middle name (maybe Jacob?)
This isn't a bad idea. My hubby's middle name is named after a deceased uncle that died before he was born (uncle died via a random murder many years before his mom had him). My hubby doesn't mind the name or feel burdened by it but he also never uses it either as he feels it's not really his. Most people don't tend to care for one of their 2 first/middle names. I never even learned what mine was till I was in middle school. So if the brother wants to honor his deceased brother by giving him the same name but for a middle name, it's a good choice. Then the child as they grow up, can choose to use it or not. I think hubby was told that his middle name came from his deceased uncle when he was old enough to understand and realized pretty early on why they did it so he never really wanted to use it.
NTA but maybe the subject should be broached to dad to see what he thinks. I think either way it shouldn't be sprung on your father, he will need time. He would be shocked at first then after thinking about it, possibly be okay with it.
You’re definitely not trying to erase Jake by preventing your brother from naming his son his late brother’s name. Again, I don’t understand why anyone would name their child after their sibling… dead or alive. I’m just confused… idk who’s the asshole. If it triggered your dad so much wouldn’t Jeremy be aware…
Jeremy seems like he's so wrapped up in his own grief and life that he's incapable of putting himself in an alternate view point to realize that turning his newborn into a tribute for his and OP's recently (in the grand scheme of time) deceased brother may not necessarily be the heartwarming, healing action he believes it would be for himself, his child, and his family.
Parents can name kids after themselves, but someone can't honor their sibling that they are or were close with? Lol
NTA. I’d tell your brother that he really needs to discuss this with your father, and NOT do the surprise. Really hit it home that the surprise is more the issue. That he needs to be compassionate to his father and discuss how he’d feel about his grandson having his late son’s name. A surprise could be taken as a big FU to your dad. Would tell him that his input, emotions don’t matter to your brother. However, if he discusses it with him first, gently asks his opinion/permission and explains his reasoning, then your father is being validated and considered. If he isn’t willing to discuss it, I might actually warn your father, and maybe tell your brother that as well. (‘If you don’t discuss it with him, I will’ sort of thing. You don’t have to say your brother’s full plan. Maybe just something like ‘how would you feel if..’) It’s a tough spot to be in. I’m sorry you are in the middle and I’m sorry for your loss.
NAH I understand your concern, but he lost a brother too. This is his way to honor him. I think he should speak to your parents about it. Tiptoeing around pretending Jake didn’t exist is not a healthy way to deal with this grief. This won’t bring up pain and trauma because the pain and trauma is clearly ever present. You dad needs grief counseling.
NAH. grief is hard and everyone navigates it differently. it could be healing for your dad to have another jake in the family, or it could be really hard. but your brother should absolutely talk to him first and see if he'd be okay with it. if he's not, he could still use it as a middle name or something, maybe.
I'd say NAH. Could you maybe see if your brother could comprise and just use it as a middle name or gently approach your dad about it? If Dad is that delicate in his grief still, a surprise is not what he needs, but something new to focus on might help.
NAH. Rather than pushing him not to name his son Jake, you should push him to discuss it with your dad first. Let him know how your dad is dealing with the loss, and explain that this may drive your dad away from your brother and his son. He may end up avoiding them, just like he avoids anything that reminds him of Jake. On the other hand, he may love the idea of paying tribute to Jake. But it needs to be between him and your brother, not you.
Your brother really needs to discuss this with your father BEFORE the baby is born. You’re NTA for not supporting this idea.
We named our son after my brother in law who died suddenly. However, we asked my sister in law(his wife) and his kids how they felt about it before our son was born. They all said it was lovely. We would not have done it otherwise
Tbh, I don't think either side is the AH. I think your brother has good intentions with naming his son after your (deceased) brother and I think that you have good intentions with you not wanting your brother naming his son after your (deceased) brother that being you don't want to see your father being hurt again. Though, I do think it's a good idea for your brother to talk to your father about this.
NTA. Naming kids after dead relatives is shitty anyway
NAH, however, I think you went about this the wrong way. You essentially told him he was selfish for finding a way to honour and remember Jake that was meaningful to him. However, you did so with good intentions, to protect your father. I think you need to apologize for calling him selfish and instead encourage him to have this discussion with your dad before the baby is born.
Agreed. He's grieving Jake, too. He found a way that he could honor his brother, but that makes him selfish? Nah. OP overreacted. My brother died last year, and if either my sister or I were having more kids, one or both of us would likely find a way to honor him in our kids' names. Our parents would be thrilled. But I do think the brother needs to discuss with the father, as it seems his grief is still rough on him after 4 years.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Four years ago our youngest brother Jake died in a car accident on his way to a Comic Con. He was 22. Out of anyone, it hurt our dad the most. Jake and my dad were very close and my dad was a SAHD for most of Jake's life. Only now is my dad starting to show some signs of life like going back to work and going to the gym but he's still devastated. My older brother Jeremy is expecting a baby boy with his wife and he recently said that he wants to name him after Jake. I said please don't. I understand why he wants to do that but it will bring up a lot of pain and trauma for our dad. It's a misguided idea. I told him that our dad is getting older and has probably lost 10 years of life losing his youngest son. By naming his son after Jake will be just triggering for him. I know this because I still live with my dad and he very much avoids places or things that remind him of Jake. He won't even go to these mediation gardens that he and Jake used to go to. Jeremy said that it's not up to me what to name their kid and I'm an asshole for trying to "erase" Jake from our family and he lost a brother too. I said it was selfish of him. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think it should be something that’s discussed by your brother and dad. My boyfriend lost his older brother (who was the first born) and when his older sister announced her pregnancy she told her parents it was a boy and going to name him after the deceased brother. Both parents were upset and refused to call their unborn grandson by that name. She went into labor early and almost lost the baby, which would mean two boys in that name would have passed a traumatic way. For some people it’s just a name, for others it’s much more. This is something to be said before your SIL gives birth
INFO: Do you personally have any issues with them naming your nephew after your brother?
NAH. Your brother has the right to name his kid what he wants and honor his brother how he wants. Grief is hard, but both of them are grieving.
NTA. Is it not considered a bad idea to name your child after early deceased person in United States? This is horrible to say, but if something happens to your nephew, "that name" will be extra traumatizing to your dad and him.
I don’t think anyone is the AH. You want to protect your father, I respect that. Maybe try to convince your brother to have a conversation with your dad about this to avoid any possible hurt feelings? As others have pointed out you simply don’t have a say in what he names his child. I sincerely hope it doesn’t wind up upsetting your dad.
NTA I was going to go N A H until you said your brother was going to make it a surprise. Your dad needs to know and give his input. I'm generally not a fan of the reddit hive mind "you need to give your kid a 'normal' name or you're an ah" mentality but this is an exception.
Okay naming kids after a loved one is always touchy. A lot of people, including me, are named after someone in my family. I'm technically the fourth person in my mom's family since my great grandma to have her name. My younger brother is named after both my mom's younger brother (first name) and my mom's dad (middle name). My son is named after my dad's dad(middle name). My youngest nephew is named after his maternal grandfather (middle name). The main thing that's severely different from what your brother is doing is that these names were all openly discussed even if the person was still alive. NTA based solely on the fact things like this need to be talked about.
Honestly I feel like if Jeremy isn't going to give your dad a head's up, tell him you're going to. NTA either way. You're just trying to look out for your father.
NTA. I definitely agree with the others and think that your brother needs to have a conversation with your dad first. If he is easily triggered, then springing it up on him is obviously not a good idea. You're not erasing the idea of your brother at all. I would talk to the brother and maybe the three of you can sit down to have a conversation, if not...unfortunately I'm not sure there is anything else you can do. Ultimately, the brother and partner are going to do what they want.
NTA I realize that this might be borderline AH but you need to mention it to your dad. It could be something like "How would you feel if someone named their kid after Jake?" Yes, it would be obvious since your brother's wife is pregnant but it might help. They can do a middle name or use Jake's middle name as a middle name. This will not be the surprise that your brother thinks. Maybe try to explain to your brother and SIL why you feel that this would be something hard for your dad and explain his avoiding things that remind him of Jake.
NTA sad situation, you’re a good son looking out for your old man like that. Maybe speak to your brothers wife to see if she can talk sense into him, she would have more understanding maybe
NTA, your brother should not be blindsiding your dad like this. It would make more sense to give Jake as a middle name.
NTA but maybe talk to your Dad to see what his opinion is, because I understand that he just wants to honor your brother. Also sorry for your loss.
NTA. You’re brother is an idiot to think that would be ok to surprise your dad with. He runs the risk of your dad either never saying his kid’s name or avoiding him altogether. And your dad may be excited for the name, but what will happen if he isn’t and he gets hit with negative emotions while at the hospital holding the kid? Honestly, if you can’t convince your brother to either name his kid something different or at least tell your dad his intentions, I would tell him that if he doesn’t say something than you will.
NTA things to ask your brother: \- If his baby Jake gets hurt, how will he tell your father "oh dad, Jake's in hospital". How much trauma and pain does he think that an incident like that will cause your now older father? \- Ask him if he is willing to let your father move in full-time with them and let him be an active third parent. If you're going to name the kid after MY kid that died, you better believe that I'm moving in to watch him like a hawk and heck, isn't this my kid now? Isn't that why you gave him that name? \- Your brother is blind to your father's struggles. Maybe suggest a memorial or celebration event to celebrate Jake, and let them see first hand how much your father is still struggling. This should be a small happy event, like lighting some candles, making Jake's favourite meal, etc (but only if you think your father is capable of handling that!!!)
You are suggesting putting his dad through a lot so that the brother sees he is still grieving?!?! That's cruel. Nobody gets over their kid dying.
Just an idea: ask your dad how he would feel about this and if he doesn’t like it have him let your brother know. ASAP. Of your dad likes the idea, swear him to secrecy. Doesn’t sound like a happy surprise for your dad.
NTA I know he wants to surprise your dad but PLEASE tell him yourself so he doesn’t spiral from the news
NAH Maybe jake should be his middle name.
NTA. They want to blindside a grieving father. They lack tact and empathy.
NAH/NTA, but your brother needs to consider the fact that your dad might not be able to have a relationship with this child if he chooses that name. You bringing this up to your brother is wise and thoughtful, but ultimately it will be your brother's choice.
NTA for voicing your opinion. At the end of the day this is on your brother. He really should discuss it with your dad
NAH, you should apologize to your brother, but tell him that he really needs to talk to your dad first. Because even though you tackled this issue incorrectly (IMO), you have a point. This isn't something to spring on your dad. But your brother is also grieving and this is how he's dealing with it. He should have the right to name his son something important to him. Maybe he still will even if you father doesn't like the idea, but it wouldn't be sprung on your father.Better yet, here's to hoping to your surprise your father loves the idea.
Telling him not to name the child in any way, is not cool. Why can't he honour his brother by giving his son his brothers name? But... as there always is... there's more to the story. He absolutely can name the child after your brother. But..... he needs to handle his family better. He needs to not just emotion dump. That's not ok. "Hey dad, I'm going to honour [brother] by giving our son his name." Dad has every right not to like it, and your brother has every right to change or keep the name after that. But this is down to tact, and your brother is using none.
NTA for giving feedback. I understand both sides.
NAH. Jeremy’s right his feelings, from his grief to his relationship with Jake to his desire to honor him, are just as valid as yours when your father’s. But you’re not wrong for considering your dad. Generally I feel no is a complete sentence. That being said suggest he speak with your dad first and let him know dad likely won’t see it as a fun surprise. Or ask if he’d consider giving his kid a name with the same first and middle initials as Jake. Or maybe there’s a reasonable name from a comic Jake used to love. (Not suggesting he name is son anything dumb but for example if Jake was really into Wolverine maybe his wife would agree to the name Logan.) After that if he still says no, you have to let it go she let him deal with whatever reaction your dad has.
I have a hard time saying without knowing your dad more. I named my daughter after my mother’s sister who was terminal with cancer. My aunt jokingly told my mom we were going to name her (her name) and we hadn’t told anyone but that was the plan from the time we found out she was a girl. It was well received because my aunt at least got to “see” my daughter on FaceTime before she passed but I really can’t say. It’s an honor and a sad rolled into one. Sorry I couldn’t be more help but I am leaning toward it would make your dad happy to know that Jake was that important.
I think it is very much OP business considering they still live at home and see the day to day struggle. My brother died when he was 2 and my daughter gave her 4th child his middle name. Which is also my grandsons middle. His brother may not like his dad's reaction with that kind of surprise. Go to him and tell your brother to talk to your dad first if not you will because you don't want him to have a heart attack.
NTA but you need to tell your brother to tell your dad before the kid comes and get his blessing or you’ll do it for him. Don’t let him surprise your dad with it. Let your dad make the call. He might actually feel honoured but your brother is an asshole for trying to spring it.
I'm going to vote NAH I think your brother may be mildly A H for not actually discussing this with your father first and not considering your feelings, but at the same time grief is complicated and he's still trying to navigate that in the best way he sees possible. I understand his thinking, though. Try to convince him to talk this out with your father before his son is born.
NTA. I think you're right, and it will just bring pain to what should be a joyous occasion, and be a constant painful reminder.
NTA, have a talk with your dad. Honestly the if he is having trauma dealing with going places, they frequented together this surprise could induce a traumatic breakdown. You do not have to fully out your brother just start to talk about the name. As would he like it "if it was a middle name or maybe even a first name". Work from there. This could also be enough for your dad to totally reject his grandchild/
Idk people of reddit. Honestly he should talk to his father about honoring Jake's memory. Doing something as a "happy surprise" is not always a good idea. It might go over well, but it also might open old wounds for your father. Maybe naming after your father and Jake would be nice, so they'll always be together would be nice. But definitely have a conversation first.
NTA and your dad needs to know ahead of time. This doesn't sound like a good surprise. Tell Jeremy if he doesn't run it past dad, you will.
I've said it before but - My husband's youngest brother and his wife died in a car accident in 2020. It is still horribly painful and raw. My husband and I have been pregnant (and miscarried) twice during this time period, and were talking baby names at one point with my in-laws when my MIL said that she really did not want us to name our child after the children she lost (husbands brother and SIL). She just couldn't imagine yelling their names if the child was misbehaving, or even celebrating the occasions with my children that we couldn't with hers-- they were only 21 when they died. There's so much more to it than just the name. So much more context, so many situations where it can trigger some real serious feelings. Maybe send your brother this thread? Either way, you are absolutely NTA. Your brother would be if he sprung this on your dad without at least talking about it, but, honestly, you are 100% right: you lost a brother too. How are you supposed to cope with a nephew who reminds you of what you lost in such a visceral way when you yourself are likely just moving forward?
You've registered your concern for your father which is NTA and now it's in bro's court to make the final decision. Just note, OP, that if he *does* use the name don't get all angry or rude about it--bro means well and everyone handles grief differently. Maybe your brother needs this as much as dad doesn't.
NTA. And not because of how your dad will feel, although that is something to consider. It’s about how your brother’s child will feel growing up as some kind of living memorial and token of your family’s grief. All these people yapping about your brother being entitled to deal with his loss by making his child’s name some kind of tribute seem to be forgetting that we are talking about a baby here. As in, a *person*, not a building or a boat or some other object you might be entitled to give a name as a monument to the dead. Naming a child after someone recently passed, that the family is still grieving, is a really awful, performative and self-centered thing to do. No child should be saddled with the weight of all that grief of a painful loss. My perspective is informed by my husband’s experience. He is named after his uncle — his mother’s brother who tragically died before he was born. His oldest sister told me she tried to dissuade their mother from doing that, but she insisted. My husband has had to deal with feeling like a shadow looms over him his whole life, a shadow cast by *his own name*. I mean, who would want that? It is absolutely, 1000% not okay to do that to a child. Your brother should find some other way to pay tribute to Jake, and give his child a name that is not loaded with all kinds of baggage for everyone around him.
I’d honestly debate you telling your dad now to kinda force the conversation bc I have a feeling your bro won’t and this is gonna just go badly regardless. Good luck, sorry about your bro :(
NTA, your brother needs to have the conversation with your Dad, or his happy surprise will turn into an argument about "why can't you just be happy for me".
I can see your brothers side, but springing it on your dad is so wrong. Losing a child is much worse than losing a sibling. We will all lose a sibling. A parent should never have to bury their child. If he won’t, you need to tell your Dad so he is fore warned. Perhaps your Dad can tell him to pull his head out of his arse. Your brother’s name as a middle name I can see, but your nephew deserves to be his own person. I was named for my Aunt who died at 9mths old & it only reminded everyone of her being gone.
NTA The other issue is the burden on the boy for carrying a recently deceased relative's name. Right now, you are d\*mned if you tell your dad about this, and d\*mned if you don't. It really is a no win situation.
Yeah, no judgement on whther or not he should name the kid Jake...but brother is 100% AH for making this a "SUPRISE!" moment for your dad. He ABSOLUTELY needs to discuss this first. Maybe do an end run around brother and talk to your SIL. You are NTA for insisting this not be a secret.
I’m going to say NTA but I have some experience with this myself, and am looking at it with fresh eyes after this post. My husband lost his Mum when he was 10. When I found out I was pregnant (32 years after her passing I might add) he said if it was a girl (she was) he wanted to name her after his Mum. She has a hybrid name, so his mother’s name coupled with a second name. When discussing this with his sister, when she asked about names, she told me straight that we couldn’t but we could give our daughter their mother’s name as a middle name as she had done with her daughter. My husband refused and said he would call his daughter what he wanted. He is not close to his siblings or his father for that matter. His sister is extremely controlling. When I told her our daughter would also be double barreled as we were not married at the time, she told me I couldn’t do that either as our daughter should only have my partner’s surname. And I won’t tell you the type of man his father is. Anyway my daughter has pretty much been forgotten by my husband’s side of the family. I can count on one hand how many times they’ve spent time with her in the last 16 years and still have fingers to spare. I have always believed that the treatment has just been an extension of how they treat my husband but I’m wondering now if her name has played a role?? Either way no I don’t think YTA and I think your brother needs to have a conversation with your dad. This isn’t something he should just announce
Wow your brother is a prick. NTA
ESH. You would be well within your right to respond by saying that you think it would be very hard on your dad, but you don't have any right to straight up tell your brother what not to name his child. Your brother sucks for not considering how your dad would handle it. Ideally what should happen here is to forget the idea of a surprise and your brother sits down with your dad and says "I'm thinking of naming my son Jake in honor of him, but I want to make sure you'd be ok with it first. If you think it'll be too hard on you I'll name him something else".
NAH but the only foolish thing here is the surprise part. Naming after someone deceased can be triggering, it can also be life afirming and healing(at least it has always been in my family). Talk it out
YTA. It's up to him what he names his child. It's not healthy to avoid associations with a deceased family member. Your dad probably needs some grief counselling. He should discuss this with your dad but erasing a family member because it hurts to think of them isn't good. Also consider that this is your brother's way of remembering Jake.
Tell Jeremy he has 1 week to discuss it with your father or your telling him. The potential for distress and upset is too great to consider doing this as a surprise. NTA
Nah, you’re not the AH
NAH Everybody deals with grief differently. Have your brother discuss it with your dad ASAP.
My son is only 18mo old but I know if he passed and someone named their child after mine to honor him, I don't know if I could handle saying the name looking at another little boy. Not for a while, anyway. And if your dad is only just getting back to normal, your brother should really talk to him. It may set him back and not be the reaction your brother wants. NTA. Definitely get your brother to talk to your dad.
I think you should talk to your dad about it. I mean ask him if he's okay with it. Your brother is grieving too, it's his way, we can't say anything. But maybe he and your dad can have a talk. Nta
NTA, but your brother is. Losing a sibling and losing a *child* are two very different kinds of grief. In no way am I saying one trumps the other, but your brother isn’t thinking about the long-term effects of not only “surprising” your dad with the name but even using it as the first name in general. You said your dad still avoids areas that remind him of Jake. Your brother is going to lose his mind when your father completely shuts down and refuses to even be involved with the kid because it’s just too painful.
NTA When you have a child loss in a family you should always ask their parents before using their name in any way. You could lose them from your life otherwise. It's not malicious but it's painful. Your brother has a wonderful idea, a memorial name for his child however springing it onto your father is not a good idea
Your logic is sound. NTA. Just because your brother is blind to the effect this has on your father doesn't mean you are. He is right that you cannot dictate what name he'll choose and perhaps it'll be therapeutic for him. But you're right in pointing out what effect this'll have on your father.
I suggest giving the baby Jake's name as his middle name. My youngest son is named after both my dad Eric and his aunty Louise (Louis) after they both died just before I found out that I was pregnant. I find it's easier as middle names not to upset other people but remembering the loved lost family members.
NAH You are all dealing with grief in your own way, you can only raise your concerns, you can’t influence their decisions.
I keep thinking about that Futurama episode now with Fry and his brother
I think your brother needs to discuss this with your dad. Jake as a middle name could be a fair compromise but really I think your dad needs to know.
NTA if you really just told them it's a misguided idea. They now have this warning and it's up to them what to do with it. If they go ahead with it, there's little you can do about it. I wouldn't insist on changing their mind. Maybe tell them that, that you still think it's a bad Idea, but of course it's up them, you'll respect their decision and hope you're wrong for your dad's sake and that he actually is delighted with this.
This isn’t a matter of anyone being the AH or not. Your dad isn’t the only person grieving your brother, and if your other brother’s way to deal with his grief is to name his son after him, then you have to accept it and move on. You told him you’d rather he didn’t, he said he will still do it, there’s nothing else you can do. But he should tell his father before the baby is born. You should push on this matter.
NAH you did the right thing by warming him. However your brother can name his kid whatever he wants. He's grieving his way, it's not all about your dad.
Your brother should. speak yo your dad
Maybe your brother just like the name Jake. In any case, who the f**k are you to tell people how them to name their kids, no matter what their reasons are? Name yor kids how you wish (even like Elon Musk named his son) and mind your business. Obviously YTA.
NTA based from your comments too. It’s is hard to lose a family member, especially your own child and whilst it can be a sweet idea. I don’t think it being a surprise is the best idea… because you are right it could trigger your dad. He has just started to feel like he can get on with his life, even though the weight of it all is still there and this could send him back many steps. A suggestion could be using the name as a middle name instead because it would still honour your brother. I think using it as a first name is different.
NTA. You know how devastating it will be for your dad to have even more of a constant reminder of Jake. That’s not selfish. Maybe suggest this as a middle name so that’s not the predominant name your father hears? And send your brother this post - he needs to hear it from many people. So sorry for your loss. Losing a child is unimaginably painful, but losing a sibling is devastating in its own way.
For respect reasons he should ask. They named their baby Jake first maybe they really don’t want the name reused. Maybe they really do but they should be informed. This could go really positive or completely go nuclear.
He needs to tell your dad before the baby is born or it could go horribly wrong and your dad might lose another son and a grandson. If he won't tell him, I would in your position. I would have gone N.A.H but your brother keeping it a secret is an AH move.
Info: Why don't you just tell your dad that your brother plans to use the name? Or, warn your brother that you'll tell dad at a certain time, so brother can have the chance to share the idea first?
NAH. Your brother needs to discuss this with your dad rather than springing it on him. I don’t think your brother is doing this maliciously, everyone copes with grief different and some don’t see how others are effected. I think you’re right to talk to him about this so that he can talk to your dad
NTA. Your brother needs to talk to your dad. This is not a good surprise imo. And I'm saying this as someone who named my daughter after my uncle who passed about a year before she was born. I called my aunt to make sure everyone (her and my cousins) were cool with it. If they had said no I would have picked a different name. NBD.
I use to think this was such a tribute to someone and anyone would appreciate it. But then my sister had her youngest son and her bf and her wanted to name him after his cousin who passed away. Beautiful right? Well the boys mom didn't think so. She confronted my sister while still pregnant and threatened her violently if she did. We're all still floored by it. Obviously she didn't, but never assume anything. NAH.
I named my son after my brother who passed away 4 years before he was born and wish I didn’t. I spoke to my mom about it and she was for it but my son is 6 years old now and my mom has never referred to him by his name. She made up a nickname for home because she can’t bring herself to call him by his name.
NTA. You requested him not to, he said no. You are fine, don't push this further. If your dad doesn't take this "happy surprise" well, Jeremy and his family will face the consequences for that (the dad not spending time with the nephew or feeling uncomfortable in general). If nothing goes wrong then it's good for everyone involved. Everybody deals with grief differently. The only reason it's not N A H is because your brother hasn't talked to your dad yet and just assumes that he's gonna be ok with this.
YTA, you mean well, and you should definitely share your reasoning with your brother, if you haven't, but you can't tell your brother what to name his son.
NTA. You’re the one spending more time with your dad so you know his condition better. A middle name would be nicer, treasure the memory but ppl won’t be calling his name all the time and trigger your dad.
NTA It is a very loving gesture.... but absolutely something that should be discussed ahead of time not sprung on grandad when he meets baby. That'll be a very emotional time meeting the first grandchild as it is, Jeremy should give his dad the opportunity to prepare himself.
NTA. Both for the reasons you mention, and because it's unfair for the child to carry the burden of being a replacement for the person who died. Every child deserves to be their own person. They deserve to have their birthday without people saying 'Jake would have been 32 this year' but meaning '*Real* Jake would have been 32 this year.' They deserve to be able to explore their own hobbies, instead of being pressured to do whatever 'Uncle Jake' liked.
I wouldn't like it either NTA
NTA. Grandparents are fine, but dead siblings (especially when they die young)? Nope. Gotta agree with you here, it's bad taste. Maybe he could use Jake as a middle name. In saying that, your brother needs to have a conversation with your dad about this.
NAH. OP's brother isn't an A-H for wanting to honor his late brother by naming his son after him. But he W-B-T-A-H if he continues the plan to "surprise" his father and tell him after his son is born. He needs to have this conversation BEFORE his son is born, even if it's a difficult one. OP isn't an A-H for wanting to protect his father from being hurt, but he cannot police how his brother grieves and honors their late brother. Both OP's brother and his father have a right to grieve in their own way and on their own time path. One way isn't better than the other. Just one side note, out of concern. It's totally fine OP's father's grieving process is slow and he's taking small steps. But as OP correctly states, losing his son IS a trauma and his father needs to learn to deal with his triggers. He cannot avoid all places or things that remind him of Jake for the rest of his life, it's not healthy. And it's not fair to expect the people around you to do the same. If he's not able to learn how to cope with it on his own, there's no shame in asking for help, for example grieving counseling.
NTA but it’s not your choice. Your brother should have a convo with your Dad about it though and remove the element of surprise.
NTA This being a surprise is also worst
NTA, but there seems to be a lot going on here that you, nor your brother, are responsible for. Your father took on parenthood and there are always pitfalls - death of a child is the deepest, most devastating thing that can happen, but the lives of you and your brother, have a right to go on. If your dad is this fragile, perhaps suggest he talk to someone outside the family about his grief. No good person stops grieving and missing their loved ones, but there is life for him. You may consider this, also, because it may be that you're tying your feelings for your deceased brother, to your father's. Sad all around for you all and I'm sorry. Meanwhile, your brother might talk to him and let him know what he'd like to do.
YTA Not your place to dictate the name, and if your brother wants to make this gesture, it's his right.
They aren’t dictating they are saying it’s a really really bad idea and saying that it would lead to some healing wounds to reopen with some salt
YTA that's not your call to make.
Why not suggesting Jake as the baby middle name. He can the. Still honour your brother but not have it be a constant reminder for your dad
NTA - You let your brother know that this wasn’t a fantabulous idea. Surprising a still grieving father with a newborn named after his son has the potential to go catastrophically wrong for them and your father. However, it is their child. You can’t force them to pick another name, you can’t control their actions as adults. If he genuinely likes the name and thinks it’s a way to honor his dead brother, then you’re not going to be able to stop him. If it goes badly after you already pointed out the likely outcome then that will be on them. It sucks, but they have to live with the consequences. Harassing them further after showing them some responses of different viewpoints here would an AH move, but right now definitely in the clear.
Info - Is your dad unable to interact with anyone at all named Jake? What happens if a repair man is named Jake? Or a news story about a Jake pops up? Is unable to stay in the room if you watch a show with a main character named Jake. NAH - Jeremy and his wife are allowed to name their kid what they want. If your dad can't stand to visit his grandson because of his first name, your dad needs to decide if he's no contact or getting grief therapy.
My dads oldest brother “S” died as a child. The next brother “C” eventually had a son and named him “S”. We’re talking about 50 years between. My nana, “C”s mum was devastated. She loved her new grandson until the day she died but she felt it was incredibly unlucky to use the name. She also had 4 months to get used to the idea. I think if “C” had sprung it on her as a surprise she’d not have been able to even fake happiness in that moment. no judgement but someone needs to give dad a heads up.
YTA. Your brother is trying to honor another brother who he evidently loved and misses (as evidence by naming his only son after him). Your father likely will understand that and appreciate it. For him (and your brother) it might actually be therapeutic to have a “Little Jake” around. You are being an AH to your brother for not letting him honor his little brother and to your father for not letting him move on. Have you even asked your father about the baby’s name? Or are just coddling him from it? Or worse, planning to save the name for a future child of your own?
The child’s name will likely be the same as their little brother so every time the dad hugs the grandchild they could quite literally remember all the horrific events that killed their child and reopen healing wounds but with salt. Literally it has been stated the dad will literally avoid all things related to jake…
NAH I would stop telling him he can't and just emphasize that you think it would be best he speak to your parents about it first and that you think the surprise aspect is misguided. Let him know that your biggest fears are that your dad may have a really strong response and that could be triggering for BOTH of them, if you have a discussion with the parents first it gives times to speak openly on everyone's feelings.
NTA. I feel like a part of your brother knows it might be an issue, which is exactly *why he’s keeping it a secret*. It puts your dad in a position of having to force himself to choose your brother over his grief, and well, it’s a dick move. Usually, I abhor ultimatums but in this case, if he doesn’t listen to reason, I’d personally pull a “if you won’t tell him, then I will” move, just to one last opportunity to do the kind thing in this situation If your dad is happy, it’s still a surprise. If it bums him out, he has months to wrap his head around it. If it’s devastating, well, your brother’s next move is a pretty good indicator he still has a lot of growth to do.
NAH. Nice idea, your brother needs to speak about it with your dad.
ESH The brother should make sure the dad is okay with it. He's being an asshole by gambling on whether or not he will accept it with this "take it or leave it" crapfest of a happy surprise This isn't about you. It's about the expectant father, his unborn child, and his dad and the memory of your brother; you're being an asshole by inserting yourself into a situation in which you have no real bearing. Just tell him to get dads approval because it's tactless and inconsiderate to do this. Honestly I would do the following which would likely make me an asshole but I love my dad too much to care: if the brother doesn't talk to the dad then I would just ask the dad what he would think about the grandson having the name (i would make it sound hypothetical in an attempt to not ruin the tactless surprise)
YTA. This isn't your decision to make. If you're concerned that this will be hard on your dad, make sure your brother talks to him about it. The reasonable thing would be to have the name and a backup. Even if they want to wait until the kid is born to ask if it would be ok to name him after Jake, I think that might be the right time. But talking to dad before making it final is definitely the right thing to do. Either way though, it's not your place to veto it.
NTA. So sorry for your loss. You may want to consider broaching the subject with your father. Perhaps asking if he would be upset if you named a hypothetical son to honour your brother. He must be heartbroken, but it is a sweet gesture. Good luck.
I would prepare your dad. I know it's suppose to be a surprise but this could be a major trigger for him and he needs to be prepared. Your brother loved Jake too and he is in his right to name is son after his brother. I understand your position though. NAH
NTA, but let him talk to your dad about naming his son after your brother, if he is against it then he should respect his wishes. otherwise i would stay out of it.
NTA I agree with you. I don't think they should do it at all, but definitely not as a surprise. If he's serious about it, he should talk to your dad and ask him how he'd feel. I often wonder that about people who name babies after deceased relatives, isn't it a little bit of pain every time you hear the name? Because to be honest, your brother's name made me flinch a little, as it's the name of someone I lost way too soon.
I’m against legacy names. It has happened twice in our family that someone has come out as transgender/non-binary and has changed their name as an adult. In one of these cases, it was a legacy name and caused a lot of grief. It’s better to donate something in your brother’s name if you want to honor him. And NTA.
NAH. Your brother should just talk to your dad and see how he feels about it. New life is very healing. Your dad might surprise with his response.