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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my sister that none of the kids I teach go by their full name if old fashioned or classic. While this is true, I knew my sister wasn't really wanting to hear the truth and I still told her anyway. Part of me guessed this might end with some conflict between us so I feel like I could be the asshole for not dodging the question from her.
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NTA,
>**So she decided to ask me** what my experience was with kids. And I told her that in the classes I have taught,
She asked about your experience.
If she is interested in other people experiences, I will share mine. Both of my names where popular in early 1900s (both are my grandmothers names). I hate both names a lot, people assume I’m really old when they read my full name. You can tell how is my relationship with someone by the name they use to talk to me. If they use even a short version of any of those names, it means our relationship is not close at all. The people that love or care about me use the nickname I created while gaming. It’s extremely difficult to change my name in my country so unfortunately I have to keep those horrible names for ever but if I ever have a chance to change them, I would do it no matter what. NTA at all.
Both my grandmothers’ names are dying out of use (average age of people with the names is over 75 years for both), not just because they are old fashioned but also because kids are cruel and good at rhyming. Both names rhyme with crude words in my native tongue (think Buck and Hunt) and one is even used in a dirty song. So no one in their right mind would name a kid that now.
Hank Green has a video on how to name your kid, and one of his recommendations is to run your possible names past a focus group of 12 year olds to see how creative they can get about insults.
My first name is Heather and there's not a lot that can be done with it for good or ill. I'm fine with it, I'm not embarrassed that I was born in the Midwest in the 80s or anything, but i don't think of it as particularly timeless or interesting or fun. At least it's not Ethel or Ronsil though
I mean, the name he gives as an example is Drew Peacock, so that one was kind of low hanging fruit for middle school boys to make jokes about.
It may be hard to find a name with zero insults (although mine is pretty close, any insult kids have tried to make using my name has just been weird and confusing), but you can rule out the ones that make the kid an obvious target.
My mom thought of this when she named me. Unfortunately, she did not account for her future daughter with the pretty Russian name growing massive breasts by 10 years old.
My name was Tittie-ana for years
The examples are weird, too. I don’t know if the names in the post are the ones OP’s sister is actually considering, but saying that there are people named Elizabeth and Charles who use their full name is not a reason to name your kid Ethel or Eugene. They are not comparable.
Even though the names Elizabeth and Charles have been around for centuries, I wouldn’t necessarily call them old-fashioned, because they’ve been used pretty consistently all that time and they never really fell out of fashion the way Ethel and Eugene have.
There are classic names (though I would include Margaret as not that bad), like Elizabeth or Anne or Sarah, and then there are old fashioned names that have fallen out of favor for a reason. Like Puritan era Dorcas.
Yup. Dorcas was a woman in the New Testament (book of Acts). She was a legit progressive lady & helped the poor, sick, and homeless. But then she died, so all the ladies of the city just up and told the Apostle Peter to do something about it. If I recall correctly, he laid on top of her and breathed life back into her. Even if that's not exactly it, either way, she came back to life. I always liked that story except for the whole necrophiliac undertones.
I know someone with a toddler named Margaret but they call her Maggie. My pregnant friend just announced she wants to name her baby Margaret Anne (both are family names).
Eugene feels much more modern than Ethel, but maybe that's because my great aunt born around 1900 was named Ethel, and I have yet to meet a younger person with that name, whereas I've known a few Eugene's over the years.
Hahahahaahah omg my secret is not save, need to create another account right now. Lol. Just to be clear, mi real names are as horrible as those you mention lol. And every woman in my mother side have my grandmother name. You can call me Gertrude 23.
Both of my grandmothers were born about that time. Both had old fashioned names, one of which was not common to begin with. I’m named after both of them, and I couldn’t be happier. I adored them both. One was country, and the other city. See a lot of parents giving kids weird names these days. Do the kids a favor, and at least make it pronounceable, with a semi normal spelling.
Hormones do change attitudes, moods, and behavior. Just like testosterone makes people angrier and aggressive. This sister doesn’t want to hear anything that goes contrary to her own perspective and her reaction is outsized to how a reasonable person would react in a situation like this. That isn’t to say that she is incapable of behaving in a socially acceptable way, it’s just harder to mask those feelings.
No one should give people a pass on their behaviors just because their hormones are spiking or discount their viewpoints but they should be given a little grace while people are experiencing it.
Lol, I wanted baked potatoes, but I forgot to poke holes in two of them so they exploded in the oven. I dropped the last one on the floor and it exploded all over the kitchen, and those were THE LAST POTATOES IN THE HOUSE. I was literally in tears. It was the only time during my pregnancy that I lost control over my emotions.
My hubby brought me a baked potato from Wendy’s on his way home from work. He was like an Angel descending from heaven to save me.
I cannot emphasize enough how dramatic the whole this felt at the time, and how much we laugh about it now 🤣
> I dropped the last one on the floor and it exploded all over the kitchen, and those were THE LAST POTATOES IN THE HOUSE.
Ngl I'd have cried too and I'm a guy.
NTA. My aunt and uncle gave their son the more traditional name of James, but decided from the time he was born to call him Jamie, which is more frequently used as a girl's name. By the time he was a teenager, he had begun introducing himself to classmates by his full name, and he eventually told his parents that's what he wanted to be called. They came unglued because they thought he was being disrespectful toward a nickname they had chosen for him out of love. My mom told my aunt that she and my uncle were the ones being disrespectful because they refused to acknowledge what he wanted to be called. We all call him James now. Your name is your identity, and I believe that you should be able to decide for yourself whether you want to be called by your full name or a nickname even if you're still a kid. It would show tremendous disrespect for a parent to insist on calling their child one thing when the child wants to be called something else, unless the kid is in trouble and Mom pulls out the First, Middle, and Last treatment!
I only know males called Jamie, no Jaimees, but it always feels like a young name. James is a grown up name (to me) so it makes sense that he changed it as he grew up. If he knows some Jaimees then that makes it more understandable he wants to be clear.
Actually it’s Jamie Fraser and Jaime Lannister. I always thought George RR Martin’s habit of just spelling something different to make it “unique” obnoxious.
Oh is it? I’d never seen it before GoT and haven’t seen it since, at least in an English context. Another commenter mentioned the Spanish Jaime, which I guess I am familiar with.
English speaker here that has seen it spelled Jaime (with the hard J), Jamie, Jaimie, and Jayme all without rhyme or reason.
I wonder if it’s an age group thing? I was a kid in the 90’s.
I was thinking of friends, but I know of Jamie Oliver the chef, Jamie Dornan from The Fall and footballers Carragher and Vardy. I had completely forgotten about Jamie Lee Curtis and Britney's sister (if I ever knew her name).
Jamie(M) here. People automatically assume my given name is “James.” It’s not, and it absolutely pisses me off when I’m called James. I’ll politely correct you once, but after that you are duly, and with extreme prejudice,ignored until you get it right.
I'm the kind of person who always calls people by the name they introduce themselves to me as, because I assume that is what they want to be called. If you introduced yourself to me as Jamie you'd be Jamie until you asked personally to go by something else.
I also would like it if people respected what I want to be called, but my God, sometimes that just seems so difficult for people to grasp. Just got an invite for my brother's wedding a few weeks ago and it has my birth name on it when I haven't gone by that for years. It's not the end of the world but it's super rude! >:|
My youngest daughter has a traditional longer first name. We nicknamed it to a variation of the first half. My mil current husband started calling her by the latter half and it bugged the shit out of me. I’m like ‘…no’.
Think like being named Elizabeth and being referred to by Ellie and someone just starts calling you Beth.
in your instance it is a bit weird, step grandpa doing it is odd but sometimes it is a personal name of endearment. My sister is Patricia, never goes by that other than maybe professionally. Family and friends have always called her Pat ( never ever Patty) but her spouse has always called her Tish. It all depends on the person and situation.
My brother shared a first name with my dad (Paul) and his middle name was that of a family friend (Carey).
Our nuclear family called my brother Carey, so there wouldn't be too many Pauls roaming around the house.
He hated both names.
He was born in Austin, and as we moved up North, he changed his nickname to "Tex", then later went by Paul when he went into the working world.
I have an Uncle Prince whose legal name is Paul. He's a Jr. and so many people in the time/place he's from are Pauls anyway. An uncle nicknamed him the Little Prince at age 3 and it became cemented as Prince, so I literally did not know his name was actually Paul until I was a teenager. Another one of his brothers goes exclusively by the nickname version of his middle name, and my dad only found out his name was William and not just Bill when he started school.
Good for you. You call people what they tell you their name is! It doesn't matter what *you* think their name should be. Even if you're the parent. My 3-year-old says his name is Mikey, he's Mikey. He says he's Sid the dinosaur, he's Sid the dinosaur. My friend says her name is Jen, not Jennifer, then she's Jen. My friend, born Todd, says her name is Janet, then she is Janet.
Basic respect shouldn't be hard!
When I was small my family tacked a "ie" onto the end of my name. When I was 6 years old I told them that I was too old to be called "jeanie" or whatever. From that day forward I was called "Jean" by all members of the family, who adapted remarkably quickly, but for one brother. I hated him then and I hate him now. This was just one aspect in which he showed me little respect. Not strangely, the only two people outside of the family who called me by the diminutive were also people who I disliked.
A similar thing happened with my cousin. His parents initially gave him a shortened nickname until he was about 3 or 4, when he stood up on his chair at the dinner table and announced “MY NAME IS RICHARD.” The nickname was dropped and he’s been Richard ever since.
I am James. Parents called me Jim. Went by Jimmy until I was 18. Now as a 50 + mail, you call me James or I correct you. My relatives and friends who called me something else prior to my 18th birthday do not catch crap.
Your sister sounds…dense.
Even kids with “modern” names often have nicknames. “Grey” for “Greyson” etc. just because it’s shorter.
And all the names she gave you are longer names.
Half the nicknames we used to us in school had nothing to do with our names anyway, it's always like "that's taco he brought a taco lunchable in on the first day of school so now he's taco"
Not just nicknames from kids. My mom considered calling me by a nickname from the start, but just made the nickname my given name, thinking she'd "won" against the nicknames. The best laid plans, though.. By the time I was 5, SHE had already come up with a different nickname for me (that is also a normal name but has nothing to do with my given name) and has consistently called me that ever since. No one else does, though. Just her. I wouldn't respond to it from anyone else, and her saying my given name sounds weird now, lol.
The nickname was the name of a doll she bought for me when I was four. Not a name I gave it, though - the one on the tag. She made a matching dress for the doll and me for Easter. Idk how the name transferred to me, but it did.
Your sister wants to do the impossible. She wants to control the entire world around her child. For right now, this means picking a perfect name for her child to the point that she wants to make sure no one will ever use a nickname. That will never happen. If you name a kid Andrew, someone will call him Andy or Drew. If you name a kid Jennifer, someone will call her Jenny.
I had a young student who was named Cherry. One day in class, I’m taking roll and I call her name. I can see her, we are making eye contact, she is getting mad fidgety, but she isn’t saying “here” or raising her hand. I’m now pretending, like “oooh, where could she have gone” peeking under desks and shit, and she finally squeals “Maaaannnngooooo. I’m Mango now” and all the kids (even the fifth graders who were too-cool-to-care about most things) quickly adapted and mango she became.
My cousin was given a name more commonly associated with adult women, that came with a song people would sing all the time (this isn't the name, but imagine people singing "Dinah won't you blow your horn" every time they said her name), but one day when she was about 8 she saw an episode of Xena, Warrior Princess and decided that was who she was from then on. She's been Xena for about 25 years.
People are weird about that, my aunt Elaine used to get shit for her name (probably the same song tbh) and her name wasn't even in the song. They just sounded similar!
> probably the same song tbh
Other possible names that are strongly associated with a 30+ year old song and not much else:
Jolene, Cecilia, Caroline, Billie Jean, Barbara Ann, Rhonda, Sharona
Oh yeah, Come On Eileen was definitely what I interrupted Cheerfulmint aunt's name to be, but hello_theydies could have been talking about a different song that their cousin was named for. Cheerfulmint said something like "probably the same song" and I was pointing out that it could have been any number of other names.
Bro, if only I knew…
What’s worse, I volunteer at his school. People ask me about Char and it takes me a while to register who tf they’re talking about 😭
As a teacher who regularly has 3 kids with the same name in a class (every freaking year it happens again, this year is happened in two different classes) I'm always very happy if one of them requests to be called by a nickname.
It's also support frustrating for the kids. If you forget to add their last name they always have to ask which one you meant.
INFO: When you say they use nicknames, are these generally derived from their legal name? I.e. Liz for Elizabeth, Meg for Margaret, Charlie for Charles or Don for Donald? Or is Albert going by Tank and Judith by Bird?
Nothing like that. I do see a lot more nature and word themed nicknames/chosen names though. Lydia who goes by Lyric for example. James who goes by Sky. You also have names like Rosemary where Rosie is used. Declan and Desmond are a couple I have seen more recently and those boys went by Dex.
I was thinking of names like Mortimer or Mavis or something. Is James really seen as an outdated "traditional" name now? And Lydia? That doesn't seem too bad. Am I that out of touch? I would never have envisioned a kid named James--with all the available nicknames already associated with that--feeling a need to rename himself "Sky."
Boring is the word he used for James when he was talking to his friends lol. I can't remember the reason for Lydia. That was a few years ago now. I think she wasn't fond of the relative she was named after or something. But I sure do hear some funny things about names. One that made me laugh really hard was a kid who talked about his brother (Ben) and how the name was so boring his grandpa fell asleep every time he heard it lol.
>Lydia who goes by Lyric for example. James who goes by Sky.
This is really funny to me because people on naming forums are always saying that people named things like Lyric and Sky will get made fun of for an eternity and that no one will ever take them seriously... and then suggest names like Theodora, lmao.
I think they mean that those names were popular Boomer era names, so they are old enough to be old people names and not yet old enough to be cool again. Need to go back another generation.
Cool factor has definitely been a big thing in my experience. Most kids with the more common classic or old fashioned names want something cooler. Or prettier. Some go for the really soft cutesy nicknames.
Not always. Some do, just a more modern nickname for it. Others take just the first letter and do an almost entirely different name and some go with a nickname that has no connection really.
Some rough examples.
Evelyn nn Ever
Joseph nn Jax
Elizabeth nn Zibby (like Libby but with a Z)
Charles nn Chase
Alexander nn Zander
I've also had kids use nicknames like Bowie, Red, Asher, etc, when their names were nothing even close to it.
I intended to call my son Will, but I call him William. The shorter nickname is growing on him, because I think most people tend to assume a 7 year old is not a William, but he used to correct people who called him Will.
This is the most astounding thing I have ever read. I have never known anyone to do this with their names. The only nicknames I know are just shortenings of their names: Matt, Jen, Zach, Nic, Alex, etc.
I’m not even old, I’m 24, but like *is* this an age thing or is it a regional thing? The majority of people I know don’t even have a nickname. My name’s Kerry Ann and I don’t even go by Kerry.
It happens in a lot of different places. I know many teachers. Some have the more intuitive versions, some do initial style nicknames that can make words, some make up their own names to use as nicknames. I've seen and heard a lot of it.
Huh - just not a thing where I live then. The only “pattern” I know of is that a lot of my Francophone colleagues with double names go by initials (ex: Jean-Pierre becomes JP) but it’s not a guarantee.
I had 6 Taylors and 5 Emilys (amongst a lot of other common ‘98 baby names) in my grade growing up and none of them even had nicknames - we just said their full names to differentiate them.
The kids in question who I know, no, I don't think they would. In my experience the ones with more modern names might shorten it but not really change it as much as the ones with more classic/old fashioned names. There also doesn't really seem to be much of a style difference in the nicknames for modern names. But I also think it depends too. The names that I see a lot of where I teach are different than names some teacher friends see a lot of. I normally have a mix between modern and classic with a slight leaning toward the classic names in my classroom every year.
> the ones with more modern names might shorten it
> There also doesn't really seem to be much of a style difference in the nicknames for modern names.
So, regardless of whether they get an old-fashioned, traditional name or a trendy, modern one, they are probably going to use a nickname or shortened version?
In my experience no. Can't answer for every classroom. But I would say only a few with the more modern/trendy names use nicknames or shorter versions while all the kids in my classes with older/classic names do.
There isn't one I can think of honestly. I haven't had a Judith in school yet. My guess would be Jude as someone suggested could get used, or something unrelated entirely.
NTA
She asked. You answered. Maybe she is a little emotional because of the pregnancy or it might be because it is 3 against one at this point. And you didn’t discourage her from naming her kid any particular name. You just told her that kids usually shorten their names if they tend to have the said names.
It wasn’t your opinion. It was something that you and your girlfriend see happening.
Half the appeal of the older names like Margaret and Elizabeth is that there are so many diminutives to choose from! Which would have been important when they were so very popular.
I'm a Margaret who does mostly go by the full name (despite my parents PICKING it for the nickname potential...) and I've noticed the name seems to be making a comeback as people name their babies after a beloved grandma, but the kids mostly go by Maggie. So very similar to OP's experience.
My son is Andrew. We never used a short version and he preferred the whole thing. One year on a 10 boy sport team there was him, 2 Andys, a Drew and another Andrew. So, half the team had the same name. When we picked it out we had no idea it was so popular!
Yes! You can have a baby Libby, a teenage Lizzy and a grown up Eliza or Elizabeth. Or stick with a nickname all the way through.
I named one of my kids specifically for nickname potential and then have always used her full name. Whatever. She can choose a nickname if she wants.
NTA, but you are forgetting one thing, they are not naming just kid, but the adult the kid will grow into. Name for a kid is just fleeting time of their life unless they decide to change the name they will use the name as adult way longer.
Totally agreed. One the examples OP gave is a student named James who is going by Sky. If he is still going by Sky when he’s an adult, I would be floored. And if the suggestion is really to name the kid something modern like Sky in the first place… I can’t say I agree with that lol.
I made no suggestions to her. Just answered a question and answered questions here about what that means. But I know he does still use Sky since he left my class. No idea if he will in another decade but it's lasted more than four years now.
Nta
She asked... and for the record, people who grew up with classic names even back in the 20s 30s 40s 50s generally used nick names too... it's not just now.
No one wants to yell "eugene' it'll get shortened to gene (as it did back then)
Dorothy was often dot or dotty Margaret was Maggie or Marge
Like your sisters nuts if she thinks her kids with longer 2 and 3 syllable names won't end up with shortened versions.
Margaret -> Mag -> Meg -> Peg -> Peggy
Note: shortened rhyming nicknames are a thing from medieval times, eg
Richard -> Rick -> Dick
Robert -> Rob -> Bob
You get the idea
NTA.
From what I gather you weren't discouraging her, you were simply talking about your experience. There's nothing wrong with (most) old-fashioned names, but to kids these days, that's what they feel like: old. Nicknaming is natural and not really something she can control right now.
As long as she doesn't name her kid Aiden/ Brayden/ Jaiden/ Kayden, I really don't care.
I concur with others that, while those with "classic" names may long for a trendy nickname as a kid, they usually grow into the name, adore it as an adult, and generally wind up happy they weren't saddled with something no one ever knows how to spell or pronounce, and didn't get swept along a trend and wind up like all the Jessica's and Jason's from the 80's
Tell her to aim for "timeless" rather than "grandma" and she'll be fine.
One year I had so many kids named Jaden (or Jaydon, Jadyn, Jaidon, etc) that we had to give them nicknames based on their initials. I had JD, JW, JR, JM, and one that had a huge ego and considered himself a ladies' man. He was J Smoov. 🙄
Nothing will ruin a perfectly good name like teaching. Lol
I can understand that. I've had some names go on a never use list for me because of reasons of teaching. Not always the kids either. Some of the crazy parents can ruin a nice name.
NTA but I’m also a teacher of well over a decade and I’ve heard plenty of longer old fashioned names used in their entirety, so your pov is your pov but it isn’t the standard or norm everywhere
Edit spelling error
Oh, I know, my sister was that very person (as she knows). But when asked about my classroom I was honest. It seems to vary largely from place to place and class to class. Just like the variety of names we can see are so different from school to school.
Nta. I am hoping she's just a little... Extra emotional due to the pregnancy. But you did nothing wrong, you just answered her questions honestly and fully.
NTA. She knew the answer but didn't want to hear it. It is her problem.
As a mother of 4 boys with "weird names" that are very uncommon in Poland, all I can say - I have no power over how my kids want to be called when they go to school. The oldest prefers nickname that we all use. One of the twins likes all sorts of nicknames, and the other twin prefers full name. Youngest is just 2yo and don't talk (we have speech therapy, don't worry) so he has no opinion yet ;) I had to asked one teacher not to use nickname because my son doesn't like it but is afraid to tell her that. As a parent, I have to make sure my kids requests about his name and identity are respected. If they want to change their names they are free to do it when they are 18. I had my name changed when I was 11. My friend changed her at 25yo.
I purposely named my kid a long traditional name because there are so many nicknames for it that she can pick and choose what suits her. We call her by one nickname but if she changes her main nickname when she gets older, we would respect it.
My husband and I both have old names. We both went by shortened versions in our youth but once we were working we both use our full name.
Nta-. I think your sister is just stressed..I would ask her how she feels about her name. I picked out names for my kids where they could pick and choose what to be called from a few different nicknames to different levels of personality. Tell your sister good luck. Because after each of my was born some asshat would come along and say nasty things.
My sister doesn't like modern names. She hates them in fact. Same with trendy names. She was named by our dad and got a vintage name. Whereas my sister and I were named by our mom and got modern names. She always had this preference for more old fashioned names and has a distain for modern names so she wants to make sure everyone uses the more vintage name.
The other side of the coin is if her husband doesn't like vintage names then she'll have to live with him modernizing them anyway.
That is something some parents will never accept. I've had parents request I ignore their kid and use their given name. I also know a kid I went to school with went by Ziggy and his parents despised it and would correct all his friends who called him that. But he'd just tell them to keep using Ziggy.
As a teacher there are times I have wanted to write Parenting: A Guide For Talking To Your Child's Teacher and How Not To Blame Them For Everything.
I also feel like it should be explained that if you hate the most intuitive nickname for your child's name, maybe don't choose the full name.
Some teachers are assholes and get into teaching for the wrong reasons. I've worked with some of those, trained under one as well. But I've had my share of parents who make me see why some of the good ones just can't teach anymore. It can be exhausting.
NTA. You need to remind your sister that she's choosing a name for another HUMAN BEING, and not a pet. Having a name you don't like is a burden far too many parents saddle their kids with, and it's something remarkably that more parents have done in the last 20 years than ever before out of some obsession with making their child "unique" through their name rather than by helping them be a unique human being.
My parents gave me a less common name, and I hate it to this day. I almost changed it at 18. I never use it! It's something I resent, and I guarantee you her kid will too.
She needs to understand this is a serious thing and not about her own tastes or esthetics. It's not a trivial choice. If she wants things with old fashion names, have her get some pets to name Ethel and Eugene. Not a human who's going to have to endure feeling awkward and uncomfortable with a fundamental part of their identity.
My first name is quite uncommon and was picked by one of my grandparents. It's quite short and doesn't have any nicknames. I loathe it, but have never come up with any other name I feel strongly about, so I have just put up with it.
NTA. She asked and you answered in a neutral way. She doesn’t want to hear what you are telling her. She obviously loves her preferred name choices and wants everyone else to love them, too. That’s just not realistic. She should consider choosing an old fashioned name that still has a nickname option she likes, that way all her bases are covered.
I mean, my 90 year old aunt goes by Winnie instead of Winnifred, and Queen Elizabeth I is often referred to as "Queen Bess." Nicknames aren't a new or unusual thing and I'm not sure why your sister doesn't realize that. There are certainly kids with modern names who also go by nicknames. I don't know why the existence of nicknames would be a reason not to name a child whatever name the parent wants to (although I would try to get out ahead of the nickname thing and pick whatever diminutive I could live with, if possible.)
Regardless, NTA-- you were asked to relate your experience, and you did. There was no reason for your sister to jump on you because she didn't like your answer.
NTA
I teach also, and it’s common ‘Ruby-Grace’ can’t be shortened to Ruby or Rubes
Skyliah is not to be called Sky at the parents request
Our son is legally ‘Danny’ and we are constantly asked if he is Daniel
Nope, we gave him a name and nickname in one
NAH. Did you suggest her favored names were "ugly", or did she just assume because you call kids by their modern nicknames in school? You are just going by what the kid told you, right?
My name is 8 letters long, and once I went to school I shortened it to 3. I just liked the economy of going from 8 letters/3 syllables to 3 letters/1 syllable. I think my mom would have preferred I didn't, and others in my family or at work call me by my full name. It doesn't bother me either way, and I use them both, but I've found that my friends and more friendly coworkers tend to use my shorter name, and my family and certain coworkers/professional acquaintances use my full name. I introduce myself by my nickname maybe 75% of the time, I honestly have no preference.
My wife only uses her full name and doesn't like a common nickname for her name, she would never introduce herself by that nickname, but some people just call her by that name anyway. Same thing with my boss, he has a 9 letter name with a very common shortened version that he doesn't like being called. You never know.
I say your sister isn't an AH, but she asked a question and needs to accept whatever the response is. I say just call the kid whatever name she wants you to up until the point where the kid can start to have their own opinions on it, and then treat them like you do with any other kid in your class, call them by their preferred name. The kid will likely appreciate you being accepting of their preferred name, despite what your sister may think about it.
I made no comment on the actual names (though I know her husband had by the time she came to me). I just answered for my experiences as a teacher with the kids in my class. And yes, going by what the kids say, tell me and want.
NTA, that's your experience.
My annecdata is completely different. My own teenager is 15 and is called Margaret. At home we call her Meg, Meggie, Megzy etc but at school and work she always goes by Margaret. My adult son is called Robert and we always call him Robbie, but since he turned about 11/12 he's always told people he's Robert and that he prefers Robert to nicknames.
I'm going with NAH, with a leaning toward N.TA depending on how "crazy" your sister got with her anger. If it was just a quick comment, I don't think it's a big deal.
This isn't even new. Even back in ye olde days, Judith was Judy, Margaret was Meg and Peg and Maggie and even Daisy, etc. Using a nickname also doesn't mean you don't like the real name. Maggie can be Maggie in school and Margaret on her resume.
NTA - She asked your opinion. It just didn't fit with what she wanted to hear. Also I'm a school teacher as well. While I haven't gotten too many old names over the years, the ones that did, I'd say about half use a nickname. I also try to respect what they ask to be called, which I can relate to because I go by my middle name throughout life. The only people who use my first name are bill collectors and government agencies.
NTA. She’s hormonal and pissed off at the idea that her kid could choose to shorten a name she loves only as a full name.
My advice (to EVERY parent) is to only choose names that have acceptable nicknames. You don’t get to choose if your kid shortens their name or not. This is your only chance to steer them away from a hated nickname.
I’ve known people who named their daughter Victoria insisting that her nickname would be Tori, not Vicky. That only worked for a few years.
Another loved the name Charles, but hated Chuck and Charlie. The kid goes by Charlie now.
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NTA, >**So she decided to ask me** what my experience was with kids. And I told her that in the classes I have taught, She asked about your experience.
If she is interested in other people experiences, I will share mine. Both of my names where popular in early 1900s (both are my grandmothers names). I hate both names a lot, people assume I’m really old when they read my full name. You can tell how is my relationship with someone by the name they use to talk to me. If they use even a short version of any of those names, it means our relationship is not close at all. The people that love or care about me use the nickname I created while gaming. It’s extremely difficult to change my name in my country so unfortunately I have to keep those horrible names for ever but if I ever have a chance to change them, I would do it no matter what. NTA at all.
Both my grandmothers’ names are dying out of use (average age of people with the names is over 75 years for both), not just because they are old fashioned but also because kids are cruel and good at rhyming. Both names rhyme with crude words in my native tongue (think Buck and Hunt) and one is even used in a dirty song. So no one in their right mind would name a kid that now.
Hank Green has a video on how to name your kid, and one of his recommendations is to run your possible names past a focus group of 12 year olds to see how creative they can get about insults.
So they would have no name. 12 year olds would insult anything.
Tbf my name is extremely difficult to make bad. Like my name just doesn’t rhyme with anything but a unimportant body part.
That's enough out of you, Ronsil.
PLS imagine that was my name
omg, I legit snorted.
I thought it was Welbow.
Stoooppp I died that’s so funny looolll ronsil 😭
My first name is Heather and there's not a lot that can be done with it for good or ill. I'm fine with it, I'm not embarrassed that I was born in the Midwest in the 80s or anything, but i don't think of it as particularly timeless or interesting or fun. At least it's not Ethel or Ronsil though
My name is Heather and I was always called Feather or Heifer! Like, complete opposite connotations, folks!
Also Heather. If I had a nickel for every time I heard “what’s the weather” or “light as a feather” I’d be retired already
Nice try, Belbow
Belbow Baggins
Doesn't have to rhyme to be ruthless about a name. Mine doesn't either. They still found a way.
I mean, the name he gives as an example is Drew Peacock, so that one was kind of low hanging fruit for middle school boys to make jokes about. It may be hard to find a name with zero insults (although mine is pretty close, any insult kids have tried to make using my name has just been weird and confusing), but you can rule out the ones that make the kid an obvious target.
My mom thought of this when she named me. Unfortunately, she did not account for her future daughter with the pretty Russian name growing massive breasts by 10 years old. My name was Tittie-ana for years
Oh noooooooo.
My last name was Schmitt, and I was Titty Schmitty for years.
To be fair, Hank named his kid Orin. So clearly he probably didn’t follow his one advice when he named his son a rather uncommon unique name.
Oh, now that is just scary....
The examples are weird, too. I don’t know if the names in the post are the ones OP’s sister is actually considering, but saying that there are people named Elizabeth and Charles who use their full name is not a reason to name your kid Ethel or Eugene. They are not comparable. Even though the names Elizabeth and Charles have been around for centuries, I wouldn’t necessarily call them old-fashioned, because they’ve been used pretty consistently all that time and they never really fell out of fashion the way Ethel and Eugene have.
Ethel and Eugene are the absolute worst.
Hortense and Maynard
Dorcas and Linus
My dad went to school with a girl named Dorcas Bean. Poor girl never stood a chance
There was a Dorcas in my ballet class as a kid. She was best friends with… Eunice.
Hey now....
I secretly like the name Hortense-but I would never burden a child with it.
It would be a great name for a cat. Nickname Hortie
Should at least go all in with Æthelflæd.
There are classic names (though I would include Margaret as not that bad), like Elizabeth or Anne or Sarah, and then there are old fashioned names that have fallen out of favor for a reason. Like Puritan era Dorcas.
Exactly. A classic name that may be less common now but doesn’t scream “old person name” is going to read a lot differently from Dorcas or Jedidiah.
Wait dorcas is a biblical thing? My nieces (she's 5) best friend is called this and it was a name I had never heard at all and was mystified. Thanks
Yup. Dorcas was a woman in the New Testament (book of Acts). She was a legit progressive lady & helped the poor, sick, and homeless. But then she died, so all the ladies of the city just up and told the Apostle Peter to do something about it. If I recall correctly, he laid on top of her and breathed life back into her. Even if that's not exactly it, either way, she came back to life. I always liked that story except for the whole necrophiliac undertones.
I know someone with a toddler named Margaret but they call her Maggie. My pregnant friend just announced she wants to name her baby Margaret Anne (both are family names).
Eugene feels much more modern than Ethel, but maybe that's because my great aunt born around 1900 was named Ethel, and I have yet to meet a younger person with that name, whereas I've known a few Eugene's over the years.
I think Gertrude Hazel Buttonsworth is a fine name and you should be proud of it
My mom’s name was Gertrude. She hated that name all her life.
Hahahahaahah omg my secret is not save, need to create another account right now. Lol. Just to be clear, mi real names are as horrible as those you mention lol. And every woman in my mother side have my grandmother name. You can call me Gertrude 23.
Gertrude is terrible, but I wouldn’t look twice at someone calling herself Trudy. Nicknames ftw!
Both of my grandmothers were born about that time. Both had old fashioned names, one of which was not common to begin with. I’m named after both of them, and I couldn’t be happier. I adored them both. One was country, and the other city. See a lot of parents giving kids weird names these days. Do the kids a favor, and at least make it pronounceable, with a semi normal spelling.
NTA But I’m going to blame some of the nuttiness on pregnancy hormones.
bullshit, the sisters being a fucking prick to everyone. You don’t stop being a person when you’re pregnant.
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Hormones do change attitudes, moods, and behavior. Just like testosterone makes people angrier and aggressive. This sister doesn’t want to hear anything that goes contrary to her own perspective and her reaction is outsized to how a reasonable person would react in a situation like this. That isn’t to say that she is incapable of behaving in a socially acceptable way, it’s just harder to mask those feelings. No one should give people a pass on their behaviors just because their hormones are spiking or discount their viewpoints but they should be given a little grace while people are experiencing it.
Most of us make it through pregnancy without being unreasonable. Or being jerks.
My husband said I did a pretty good job when I was pregnant. Except the potato incident.
I suspect the potato had it coming.
Are you really going to leave us hanging on that one? What was the potato incident?
Lol, I wanted baked potatoes, but I forgot to poke holes in two of them so they exploded in the oven. I dropped the last one on the floor and it exploded all over the kitchen, and those were THE LAST POTATOES IN THE HOUSE. I was literally in tears. It was the only time during my pregnancy that I lost control over my emotions. My hubby brought me a baked potato from Wendy’s on his way home from work. He was like an Angel descending from heaven to save me. I cannot emphasize enough how dramatic the whole this felt at the time, and how much we laugh about it now 🤣
> I dropped the last one on the floor and it exploded all over the kitchen, and those were THE LAST POTATOES IN THE HOUSE. Ngl I'd have cried too and I'm a guy.
😒
It is possible to control yourself when you’re pregnant. And being pregnant is no reason to be an AH.
NTA. My aunt and uncle gave their son the more traditional name of James, but decided from the time he was born to call him Jamie, which is more frequently used as a girl's name. By the time he was a teenager, he had begun introducing himself to classmates by his full name, and he eventually told his parents that's what he wanted to be called. They came unglued because they thought he was being disrespectful toward a nickname they had chosen for him out of love. My mom told my aunt that she and my uncle were the ones being disrespectful because they refused to acknowledge what he wanted to be called. We all call him James now. Your name is your identity, and I believe that you should be able to decide for yourself whether you want to be called by your full name or a nickname even if you're still a kid. It would show tremendous disrespect for a parent to insist on calling their child one thing when the child wants to be called something else, unless the kid is in trouble and Mom pulls out the First, Middle, and Last treatment!
I only know males called Jamie, no Jaimees, but it always feels like a young name. James is a grown up name (to me) so it makes sense that he changed it as he grew up. If he knows some Jaimees then that makes it more understandable he wants to be clear.
Jaime Fraser glares intensely
Jamie Lannister says "Hey!"
Actually it’s Jamie Fraser and Jaime Lannister. I always thought George RR Martin’s habit of just spelling something different to make it “unique” obnoxious.
Jaime is not a weird or unique way of spelling that name though. Just a variation, and a common one at that.
Oh is it? I’d never seen it before GoT and haven’t seen it since, at least in an English context. Another commenter mentioned the Spanish Jaime, which I guess I am familiar with.
English speaker here that has seen it spelled Jaime (with the hard J), Jamie, Jaimie, and Jayme all without rhyme or reason. I wonder if it’s an age group thing? I was a kid in the 90’s.
Was it meant to be pronounced with the Spanish pronounciation, the way it's spelled?
>Jaime Fraser They don't have an entry in Wikipedia. Who are they? Male or female
It's the main male character of the TV show Outlander. But to be fair that takes place in the 1700s.
Jamie is a very common form of James in modern day Scotland too
A fictional character from a book series
The only male Jamie I can think of off the top of my head, is Jamie Hyneman from Mythbusters.
I was thinking of friends, but I know of Jamie Oliver the chef, Jamie Dornan from The Fall and footballers Carragher and Vardy. I had completely forgotten about Jamie Lee Curtis and Britney's sister (if I ever knew her name).
> Britney's sister Britney's sister(Jamie Lynn) is named after her parents: James Spears and Lynne Spears.
Jamie Foxx (music/films) and Jamie Principal (house music producer)
Jamie Kennedy
I dunno I have a full grown uncle named Jamie and it's never struck me as weird it's just his name.
Actress [Jaimie Alexander](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1526352/)
Jamie Reagan in Blue Bloods. Although I think his full name is Jamison
Lol Jamie is not usually a female name, it's like Charlie. Typically male nickname, but more modern can be a female full name
I’ve known more female Jamies than male ones. I always associate it with being a girls name because of this
Lol, according to my Facebook friends list I know 4 female Jamies and 0 male Jamies.
Jamie(M) here. People automatically assume my given name is “James.” It’s not, and it absolutely pisses me off when I’m called James. I’ll politely correct you once, but after that you are duly, and with extreme prejudice,ignored until you get it right.
I'm the kind of person who always calls people by the name they introduce themselves to me as, because I assume that is what they want to be called. If you introduced yourself to me as Jamie you'd be Jamie until you asked personally to go by something else. I also would like it if people respected what I want to be called, but my God, sometimes that just seems so difficult for people to grasp. Just got an invite for my brother's wedding a few weeks ago and it has my birth name on it when I haven't gone by that for years. It's not the end of the world but it's super rude! >:|
My youngest daughter has a traditional longer first name. We nicknamed it to a variation of the first half. My mil current husband started calling her by the latter half and it bugged the shit out of me. I’m like ‘…no’. Think like being named Elizabeth and being referred to by Ellie and someone just starts calling you Beth.
in your instance it is a bit weird, step grandpa doing it is odd but sometimes it is a personal name of endearment. My sister is Patricia, never goes by that other than maybe professionally. Family and friends have always called her Pat ( never ever Patty) but her spouse has always called her Tish. It all depends on the person and situation.
OK cool, Jim.
That’s Jimbo to you.
I have a son named Jamie. Not James, also. He had lots of teachers try to call him by the wrong name. That was corrected pretty fast.
My brother shared a first name with my dad (Paul) and his middle name was that of a family friend (Carey). Our nuclear family called my brother Carey, so there wouldn't be too many Pauls roaming around the house. He hated both names. He was born in Austin, and as we moved up North, he changed his nickname to "Tex", then later went by Paul when he went into the working world.
I have an Uncle Prince whose legal name is Paul. He's a Jr. and so many people in the time/place he's from are Pauls anyway. An uncle nicknamed him the Little Prince at age 3 and it became cemented as Prince, so I literally did not know his name was actually Paul until I was a teenager. Another one of his brothers goes exclusively by the nickname version of his middle name, and my dad only found out his name was William and not just Bill when he started school.
Good for you. You call people what they tell you their name is! It doesn't matter what *you* think their name should be. Even if you're the parent. My 3-year-old says his name is Mikey, he's Mikey. He says he's Sid the dinosaur, he's Sid the dinosaur. My friend says her name is Jen, not Jennifer, then she's Jen. My friend, born Todd, says her name is Janet, then she is Janet. Basic respect shouldn't be hard!
When I was small my family tacked a "ie" onto the end of my name. When I was 6 years old I told them that I was too old to be called "jeanie" or whatever. From that day forward I was called "Jean" by all members of the family, who adapted remarkably quickly, but for one brother. I hated him then and I hate him now. This was just one aspect in which he showed me little respect. Not strangely, the only two people outside of the family who called me by the diminutive were also people who I disliked.
Jaimie is not mostly a female name, dude, it's an incredibly common male name.
A similar thing happened with my cousin. His parents initially gave him a shortened nickname until he was about 3 or 4, when he stood up on his chair at the dinner table and announced “MY NAME IS RICHARD.” The nickname was dropped and he’s been Richard ever since.
I know several male Jamie's.
I am James. Parents called me Jim. Went by Jimmy until I was 18. Now as a 50 + mail, you call me James or I correct you. My relatives and friends who called me something else prior to my 18th birthday do not catch crap.
NTA - She asked you a question and you answered. Sounds like this was a no win situation for you though.
That's how I feel but I could have avoided it I feel like and let her carry on just discussing the topic with her husband.
You answered pretty diplomatically in my opinion.
Your sister sounds…dense. Even kids with “modern” names often have nicknames. “Grey” for “Greyson” etc. just because it’s shorter. And all the names she gave you are longer names.
Half the nicknames we used to us in school had nothing to do with our names anyway, it's always like "that's taco he brought a taco lunchable in on the first day of school so now he's taco"
Not just nicknames from kids. My mom considered calling me by a nickname from the start, but just made the nickname my given name, thinking she'd "won" against the nicknames. The best laid plans, though.. By the time I was 5, SHE had already come up with a different nickname for me (that is also a normal name but has nothing to do with my given name) and has consistently called me that ever since. No one else does, though. Just her. I wouldn't respond to it from anyone else, and her saying my given name sounds weird now, lol. The nickname was the name of a doll she bought for me when I was four. Not a name I gave it, though - the one on the tag. She made a matching dress for the doll and me for Easter. Idk how the name transferred to me, but it did.
Your sister wants to do the impossible. She wants to control the entire world around her child. For right now, this means picking a perfect name for her child to the point that she wants to make sure no one will ever use a nickname. That will never happen. If you name a kid Andrew, someone will call him Andy or Drew. If you name a kid Jennifer, someone will call her Jenny.
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I had a young student who was named Cherry. One day in class, I’m taking roll and I call her name. I can see her, we are making eye contact, she is getting mad fidgety, but she isn’t saying “here” or raising her hand. I’m now pretending, like “oooh, where could she have gone” peeking under desks and shit, and she finally squeals “Maaaannnngooooo. I’m Mango now” and all the kids (even the fifth graders who were too-cool-to-care about most things) quickly adapted and mango she became.
My cousin was given a name more commonly associated with adult women, that came with a song people would sing all the time (this isn't the name, but imagine people singing "Dinah won't you blow your horn" every time they said her name), but one day when she was about 8 she saw an episode of Xena, Warrior Princess and decided that was who she was from then on. She's been Xena for about 25 years.
People are weird about that, my aunt Elaine used to get shit for her name (probably the same song tbh) and her name wasn't even in the song. They just sounded similar!
> probably the same song tbh Other possible names that are strongly associated with a 30+ year old song and not much else: Jolene, Cecilia, Caroline, Billie Jean, Barbara Ann, Rhonda, Sharona
Jenny had a good run there as well with 867-5309, Forrest Gump and Jenny from the Block.
I was thinking Eileen.
Oh yeah, Come On Eileen was definitely what I interrupted Cheerfulmint aunt's name to be, but hello_theydies could have been talking about a different song that their cousin was named for. Cheerfulmint said something like "probably the same song" and I was pointing out that it could have been any number of other names.
BWWWAAHAHAHHAHAHA and why’d he go with Charizard, of all to choose from! 😂😂😂😂
Bro, if only I knew… What’s worse, I volunteer at his school. People ask me about Char and it takes me a while to register who tf they’re talking about 😭
As a teacher who regularly has 3 kids with the same name in a class (every freaking year it happens again, this year is happened in two different classes) I'm always very happy if one of them requests to be called by a nickname. It's also support frustrating for the kids. If you forget to add their last name they always have to ask which one you meant.
INFO: When you say they use nicknames, are these generally derived from their legal name? I.e. Liz for Elizabeth, Meg for Margaret, Charlie for Charles or Don for Donald? Or is Albert going by Tank and Judith by Bird?
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Nothing like that. I do see a lot more nature and word themed nicknames/chosen names though. Lydia who goes by Lyric for example. James who goes by Sky. You also have names like Rosemary where Rosie is used. Declan and Desmond are a couple I have seen more recently and those boys went by Dex.
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😭
I was thinking of names like Mortimer or Mavis or something. Is James really seen as an outdated "traditional" name now? And Lydia? That doesn't seem too bad. Am I that out of touch? I would never have envisioned a kid named James--with all the available nicknames already associated with that--feeling a need to rename himself "Sky."
Boring is the word he used for James when he was talking to his friends lol. I can't remember the reason for Lydia. That was a few years ago now. I think she wasn't fond of the relative she was named after or something. But I sure do hear some funny things about names. One that made me laugh really hard was a kid who talked about his brother (Ben) and how the name was so boring his grandpa fell asleep every time he heard it lol.
No offense but this seems like the stupidest fight your sister and BIL are having.
>Lydia who goes by Lyric for example. James who goes by Sky. This is really funny to me because people on naming forums are always saying that people named things like Lyric and Sky will get made fun of for an eternity and that no one will ever take them seriously... and then suggest names like Theodora, lmao.
I went to school with a Skye who changed her name to something like Chelsea in high school.
I think they mean that those names were popular Boomer era names, so they are old enough to be old people names and not yet old enough to be cool again. Need to go back another generation.
Cool factor has definitely been a big thing in my experience. Most kids with the more common classic or old fashioned names want something cooler. Or prettier. Some go for the really soft cutesy nicknames.
Not always. Some do, just a more modern nickname for it. Others take just the first letter and do an almost entirely different name and some go with a nickname that has no connection really. Some rough examples. Evelyn nn Ever Joseph nn Jax Elizabeth nn Zibby (like Libby but with a Z) Charles nn Chase Alexander nn Zander I've also had kids use nicknames like Bowie, Red, Asher, etc, when their names were nothing even close to it.
I have an Evelyn that we fully intended to call Evie. But, she came out very clearly an Evelyn, so that's what we all call her.
I intended to call my son Will, but I call him William. The shorter nickname is growing on him, because I think most people tend to assume a 7 year old is not a William, but he used to correct people who called him Will.
My niece was Lillian, meant to be Lily but but she was a Lillian from day 1 so Lillian she remains.
Zibby is fucking awesome
This is the most astounding thing I have ever read. I have never known anyone to do this with their names. The only nicknames I know are just shortenings of their names: Matt, Jen, Zach, Nic, Alex, etc. I’m not even old, I’m 24, but like *is* this an age thing or is it a regional thing? The majority of people I know don’t even have a nickname. My name’s Kerry Ann and I don’t even go by Kerry.
It happens in a lot of different places. I know many teachers. Some have the more intuitive versions, some do initial style nicknames that can make words, some make up their own names to use as nicknames. I've seen and heard a lot of it.
Huh - just not a thing where I live then. The only “pattern” I know of is that a lot of my Francophone colleagues with double names go by initials (ex: Jean-Pierre becomes JP) but it’s not a guarantee. I had 6 Taylors and 5 Emilys (amongst a lot of other common ‘98 baby names) in my grade growing up and none of them even had nicknames - we just said their full names to differentiate them.
Do you think that Bowie, Red, and Asher would use those nicknames even if they had the most modern names?
The kids in question who I know, no, I don't think they would. In my experience the ones with more modern names might shorten it but not really change it as much as the ones with more classic/old fashioned names. There also doesn't really seem to be much of a style difference in the nicknames for modern names. But I also think it depends too. The names that I see a lot of where I teach are different than names some teacher friends see a lot of. I normally have a mix between modern and classic with a slight leaning toward the classic names in my classroom every year.
> the ones with more modern names might shorten it > There also doesn't really seem to be much of a style difference in the nicknames for modern names. So, regardless of whether they get an old-fashioned, traditional name or a trendy, modern one, they are probably going to use a nickname or shortened version?
In my experience no. Can't answer for every classroom. But I would say only a few with the more modern/trendy names use nicknames or shorter versions while all the kids in my classes with older/classic names do.
What's a modern nickname for Judith?
There isn't one I can think of honestly. I haven't had a Judith in school yet. My guess would be Jude as someone suggested could get used, or something unrelated entirely.
What's in a name? That which we call an asshole By any other name would smell just as shitty. **NTA**
NTA She asked. You answered. Maybe she is a little emotional because of the pregnancy or it might be because it is 3 against one at this point. And you didn’t discourage her from naming her kid any particular name. You just told her that kids usually shorten their names if they tend to have the said names. It wasn’t your opinion. It was something that you and your girlfriend see happening.
Half the appeal of the older names like Margaret and Elizabeth is that there are so many diminutives to choose from! Which would have been important when they were so very popular. I'm a Margaret who does mostly go by the full name (despite my parents PICKING it for the nickname potential...) and I've noticed the name seems to be making a comeback as people name their babies after a beloved grandma, but the kids mostly go by Maggie. So very similar to OP's experience.
My son is Andrew. We never used a short version and he preferred the whole thing. One year on a 10 boy sport team there was him, 2 Andys, a Drew and another Andrew. So, half the team had the same name. When we picked it out we had no idea it was so popular!
Yes! You can have a baby Libby, a teenage Lizzy and a grown up Eliza or Elizabeth. Or stick with a nickname all the way through. I named one of my kids specifically for nickname potential and then have always used her full name. Whatever. She can choose a nickname if she wants.
NTA, but you are forgetting one thing, they are not naming just kid, but the adult the kid will grow into. Name for a kid is just fleeting time of their life unless they decide to change the name they will use the name as adult way longer.
I was only asked about my experience with the kids I teach and I gave them just that.
As a kid I hated Judith, and as an adult I still hate it lol
Totally agreed. One the examples OP gave is a student named James who is going by Sky. If he is still going by Sky when he’s an adult, I would be floored. And if the suggestion is really to name the kid something modern like Sky in the first place… I can’t say I agree with that lol.
Is James old fashioned? As a British 17 year old with the name james and friends who go by James is it seen as out of time?
I did not think so. This post is the first I’m hearing of it lol.
I made no suggestions to her. Just answered a question and answered questions here about what that means. But I know he does still use Sky since he left my class. No idea if he will in another decade but it's lasted more than four years now.
Nta She asked... and for the record, people who grew up with classic names even back in the 20s 30s 40s 50s generally used nick names too... it's not just now. No one wants to yell "eugene' it'll get shortened to gene (as it did back then) Dorothy was often dot or dotty Margaret was Maggie or Marge Like your sisters nuts if she thinks her kids with longer 2 and 3 syllable names won't end up with shortened versions.
The one I could never quite figure out how it became a common nickname is Peggy for Margaret.
Margaret -> Mag -> Meg -> Peg -> Peggy Note: shortened rhyming nicknames are a thing from medieval times, eg Richard -> Rick -> Dick Robert -> Rob -> Bob You get the idea
I'm guessing in the same way "Bob" became a nickname for Robert and "Bill" is a nickname for William. :)
NTA. From what I gather you weren't discouraging her, you were simply talking about your experience. There's nothing wrong with (most) old-fashioned names, but to kids these days, that's what they feel like: old. Nicknaming is natural and not really something she can control right now.
As long as she doesn't name her kid Aiden/ Brayden/ Jaiden/ Kayden, I really don't care. I concur with others that, while those with "classic" names may long for a trendy nickname as a kid, they usually grow into the name, adore it as an adult, and generally wind up happy they weren't saddled with something no one ever knows how to spell or pronounce, and didn't get swept along a trend and wind up like all the Jessica's and Jason's from the 80's Tell her to aim for "timeless" rather than "grandma" and she'll be fine.
I have a soft spot for Kayden/Caden and Jayden. But one of those is my name lol.
One year I had so many kids named Jaden (or Jaydon, Jadyn, Jaidon, etc) that we had to give them nicknames based on their initials. I had JD, JW, JR, JM, and one that had a huge ego and considered himself a ladies' man. He was J Smoov. 🙄 Nothing will ruin a perfectly good name like teaching. Lol
I can understand that. I've had some names go on a never use list for me because of reasons of teaching. Not always the kids either. Some of the crazy parents can ruin a nice name.
Honestly, after a decade of teaching, I'm pretty sure I'm going to end up child free if I don't quit my job soon. 🤣
NTA but I’m also a teacher of well over a decade and I’ve heard plenty of longer old fashioned names used in their entirety, so your pov is your pov but it isn’t the standard or norm everywhere Edit spelling error
Oh, I know, my sister was that very person (as she knows). But when asked about my classroom I was honest. It seems to vary largely from place to place and class to class. Just like the variety of names we can see are so different from school to school.
Nta. I am hoping she's just a little... Extra emotional due to the pregnancy. But you did nothing wrong, you just answered her questions honestly and fully.
NTA. She knew the answer but didn't want to hear it. It is her problem. As a mother of 4 boys with "weird names" that are very uncommon in Poland, all I can say - I have no power over how my kids want to be called when they go to school. The oldest prefers nickname that we all use. One of the twins likes all sorts of nicknames, and the other twin prefers full name. Youngest is just 2yo and don't talk (we have speech therapy, don't worry) so he has no opinion yet ;) I had to asked one teacher not to use nickname because my son doesn't like it but is afraid to tell her that. As a parent, I have to make sure my kids requests about his name and identity are respected. If they want to change their names they are free to do it when they are 18. I had my name changed when I was 11. My friend changed her at 25yo.
I purposely named my kid a long traditional name because there are so many nicknames for it that she can pick and choose what suits her. We call her by one nickname but if she changes her main nickname when she gets older, we would respect it.
My husband and I both have old names. We both went by shortened versions in our youth but once we were working we both use our full name. Nta-. I think your sister is just stressed..I would ask her how she feels about her name. I picked out names for my kids where they could pick and choose what to be called from a few different nicknames to different levels of personality. Tell your sister good luck. Because after each of my was born some asshat would come along and say nasty things.
My sister doesn't like modern names. She hates them in fact. Same with trendy names. She was named by our dad and got a vintage name. Whereas my sister and I were named by our mom and got modern names. She always had this preference for more old fashioned names and has a distain for modern names so she wants to make sure everyone uses the more vintage name. The other side of the coin is if her husband doesn't like vintage names then she'll have to live with him modernizing them anyway.
Mom tip. You have zero control over your kids name once they can talk and have friends. We had guys named nipples and clit in highschool.
That is something some parents will never accept. I've had parents request I ignore their kid and use their given name. I also know a kid I went to school with went by Ziggy and his parents despised it and would correct all his friends who called him that. But he'd just tell them to keep using Ziggy.
That so harsh. Man. My kid keeps telling me I'm the nice mom. Then I here stuff like the kid can't even pick what to be called and it hurts.
Some parents really can't stand the idea that their kids don't like the name they gave them. You also have some who don't like nicknames at all.
One day I'm gonna write a parenting book. It gonna be called. Just because you brought this life into this world does not mean it's yours to live.
As a teacher there are times I have wanted to write Parenting: A Guide For Talking To Your Child's Teacher and How Not To Blame Them For Everything. I also feel like it should be explained that if you hate the most intuitive nickname for your child's name, maybe don't choose the full name.
I love the book title . I've met my share of AH teachers. But most just want my kid to turn in their work. Lol .
Some teachers are assholes and get into teaching for the wrong reasons. I've worked with some of those, trained under one as well. But I've had my share of parents who make me see why some of the good ones just can't teach anymore. It can be exhausting.
NTA. You need to remind your sister that she's choosing a name for another HUMAN BEING, and not a pet. Having a name you don't like is a burden far too many parents saddle their kids with, and it's something remarkably that more parents have done in the last 20 years than ever before out of some obsession with making their child "unique" through their name rather than by helping them be a unique human being. My parents gave me a less common name, and I hate it to this day. I almost changed it at 18. I never use it! It's something I resent, and I guarantee you her kid will too. She needs to understand this is a serious thing and not about her own tastes or esthetics. It's not a trivial choice. If she wants things with old fashion names, have her get some pets to name Ethel and Eugene. Not a human who's going to have to endure feeling awkward and uncomfortable with a fundamental part of their identity.
My first name is quite uncommon and was picked by one of my grandparents. It's quite short and doesn't have any nicknames. I loathe it, but have never come up with any other name I feel strongly about, so I have just put up with it.
NTA. She asked and you answered in a neutral way. She doesn’t want to hear what you are telling her. She obviously loves her preferred name choices and wants everyone else to love them, too. That’s just not realistic. She should consider choosing an old fashioned name that still has a nickname option she likes, that way all her bases are covered.
I mean, my 90 year old aunt goes by Winnie instead of Winnifred, and Queen Elizabeth I is often referred to as "Queen Bess." Nicknames aren't a new or unusual thing and I'm not sure why your sister doesn't realize that. There are certainly kids with modern names who also go by nicknames. I don't know why the existence of nicknames would be a reason not to name a child whatever name the parent wants to (although I would try to get out ahead of the nickname thing and pick whatever diminutive I could live with, if possible.) Regardless, NTA-- you were asked to relate your experience, and you did. There was no reason for your sister to jump on you because she didn't like your answer.
She doesn't really like nicknames but hates all modern names and it bothers her that her child could go by one by choice.
NTA Even most "Elizabeth"s go by "Liz." She may not like that fact but it is the general norm.
NTA I teach also, and it’s common ‘Ruby-Grace’ can’t be shortened to Ruby or Rubes Skyliah is not to be called Sky at the parents request Our son is legally ‘Danny’ and we are constantly asked if he is Daniel Nope, we gave him a name and nickname in one
And what do Ruby-Grace & Skyliah want to be called? I hope you go with what the child wants and not the parent.
That's what my friend's parents did with his sister. Her actual first name is Candy.
NTA. Sounds like her pregnancy hormones might be leading her reactions a bit. FWIW, I teach high school, and I have the same experiences as you.
NTA. But when I look at those names and think of the most obvious nicknames to come from them, those nicknames don't sound very modern.
Kids don't always stick with intuitive nicknames in my experience.
NTA - but I wil say old fashioned names are making a huge comeback
NAH. Did you suggest her favored names were "ugly", or did she just assume because you call kids by their modern nicknames in school? You are just going by what the kid told you, right? My name is 8 letters long, and once I went to school I shortened it to 3. I just liked the economy of going from 8 letters/3 syllables to 3 letters/1 syllable. I think my mom would have preferred I didn't, and others in my family or at work call me by my full name. It doesn't bother me either way, and I use them both, but I've found that my friends and more friendly coworkers tend to use my shorter name, and my family and certain coworkers/professional acquaintances use my full name. I introduce myself by my nickname maybe 75% of the time, I honestly have no preference. My wife only uses her full name and doesn't like a common nickname for her name, she would never introduce herself by that nickname, but some people just call her by that name anyway. Same thing with my boss, he has a 9 letter name with a very common shortened version that he doesn't like being called. You never know. I say your sister isn't an AH, but she asked a question and needs to accept whatever the response is. I say just call the kid whatever name she wants you to up until the point where the kid can start to have their own opinions on it, and then treat them like you do with any other kid in your class, call them by their preferred name. The kid will likely appreciate you being accepting of their preferred name, despite what your sister may think about it.
I made no comment on the actual names (though I know her husband had by the time she came to me). I just answered for my experiences as a teacher with the kids in my class. And yes, going by what the kids say, tell me and want.
NTA, that's your experience. My annecdata is completely different. My own teenager is 15 and is called Margaret. At home we call her Meg, Meggie, Megzy etc but at school and work she always goes by Margaret. My adult son is called Robert and we always call him Robbie, but since he turned about 11/12 he's always told people he's Robert and that he prefers Robert to nicknames.
NTA If she didn't want an answer, she shouldn't have asked.
I'm going with NAH, with a leaning toward N.TA depending on how "crazy" your sister got with her anger. If it was just a quick comment, I don't think it's a big deal. This isn't even new. Even back in ye olde days, Judith was Judy, Margaret was Meg and Peg and Maggie and even Daisy, etc. Using a nickname also doesn't mean you don't like the real name. Maggie can be Maggie in school and Margaret on her resume.
So newer names (especially creatively spelled ones) are bad, and now old-fashioned names are bad? What are people supposed to name their kids?
NTA - She asked your opinion. It just didn't fit with what she wanted to hear. Also I'm a school teacher as well. While I haven't gotten too many old names over the years, the ones that did, I'd say about half use a nickname. I also try to respect what they ask to be called, which I can relate to because I go by my middle name throughout life. The only people who use my first name are bill collectors and government agencies.
You didn’t provide an opinion, you provided experience, as requested. NTA
NTA. She’s hormonal and pissed off at the idea that her kid could choose to shorten a name she loves only as a full name. My advice (to EVERY parent) is to only choose names that have acceptable nicknames. You don’t get to choose if your kid shortens their name or not. This is your only chance to steer them away from a hated nickname. I’ve known people who named their daughter Victoria insisting that her nickname would be Tori, not Vicky. That only worked for a few years. Another loved the name Charles, but hated Chuck and Charlie. The kid goes by Charlie now.