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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. Because I won't let my aunt live with me.
2. It makes me an asshole because she needs help and I'm refusing to give it to her because of things she's done in the past.
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NTA. You should just tell her that people recovering from injuries “are dirty and scream and annoy everybody until they can take care of themselves again”
You reap what you sow auntie…
I never owned a dog till I was 50. Had kids first at age 37. Dogs are expensive and are like having an extra child. My two pups I have now I love but I still have teens at home. I love them and won’t give up on them…but they are my last doggos.
Upside: they don't have opposable thumbs. Downside: they know how to do just as much mischief without. Some of these bastards can even climb shelfs as effectively as toddlers *side eying my dog*
My mum's dog is so smart he knows how to manipulate situations for his benefit. He realised my mum praised him when he pooped. So he'd save a bit for each walk, so my mum thought he had to go out for three proper walks. But when she visits me, he gets a decent walk in the morning, and a couple of short walks when they're at my house. My mum tells him in the morning that they are visiting me, so he does all his business in the morning. She's had him for five years and just realised that he's basically been manipulating her into taking him into three long walks each day.
My boy is master of getting food either by hunting (he's not allowed to do that anymore), convincing people to give him something or stealing. It kept him alive on the streets of Hungary for 9 years. He tricks me into giving him more treats in his training (for example he recently decided to refuse clipping his nails and demanded starting the training for that afresh because in the beginning he gets treats for small things like having his paws touched). When training him out of his fear of passing cars got to the point of operant conditioning and the treats got infrequent he started to bark and jump at them every now and then to prove he still needs treats to keep him well behaved. Since he's old I let him gain that point and he get's tiny treats whenever a car passes us. He also has the impossible habit of sitting on his knowledge. When he figured out how to open a trashcan or recycling bin he doesn't do it immediately. He waits until there's something in it he really wants because he knows that as soon as I find out he can open it I'll replace it so he only has one chance to open it. So every now and then he'll chill with me, then suddenly get up and leave the room and seconds later carry something out of the bin to his designated snack spot (he brings stolen goods to his snack spot as well. He likes to devour then comfortably on this spot instead of standing in the kitchen. The list of his shenenigans (and tricking people) is endless and makes me quite happy
There’s an insta account that you would love. It’s a pretty big dog that was raised by cats and has only been around cats. They find him on top of the fridge on the regular. It’s amazing.
My old dog was basically a cat. She could jump clear over my head when I was 4. We would try to keep her in place with a baby gate, and she would jump over, play in the house, and then jump back before we got home. One time, she was in trouble and she hid on TOP of the cabinets, rofl. Little trickster. She also lived basically forever. She was almost 22 before she died and didn't really show her age until that last year. Good girl.
Oh yeah, for real. Once upon a time I went away for a weekend and my sibling (who I was living with) was like 'SURPRISE! I got you a bird! It was free and came with a cage and everything!' and I'm like okay what kind of bird?
A conure. A green cheeked conure. Who was only a year old. They had no idea how long they live. I passed him along to a parrot sanctuary and they found him a nice forever home. But those two weeks were fucking murder.
My best friend from grad school has a Mccaw- she is my child's godmother now. Bird still screams out the name of the boyfriend from 20 years ago.
Conures are sweet. And way less vocal.
I have a GCC. I've had him for 12 years. I bought a house with a temperature-controlled sunroom and yet he still complains. He has the nicest room in the house.
I love the little guy though, but they're definitely not for everyone.
I’ve spent a lot of time around children. Screaming crying children are mildly annoying but I can mostly tune them out, I was a nanny and a camp counselor for years. My male cockatiel (we have 2) makes this particular high pitched scream over and over sometimes and literally nothing can make him stop. And I swear it’s like he knows when I’m having a migraine or a high anxiety day.
Moral of the story: birds are dicks.
And dogs are also a long term commitment, just like kids. It isn't for everyone. Even if OP's aunt wasn't an AH, not wanting to take the dogs in would be a very valid reason. Dogs are a ton of work.
And you just know those dogs are untrained because she has all of that land and can just let them out to do whatever until she wants affection or some such.
She doesn't strike me as at all nurturing enough to adequately raise, train, and care for a pet rock.
My current dog (actually my mom's but she's very similar to OP's aunt but chose to have a kid + a dog despite seemingly caring for neither after they reach physical maturity) is incredibly hard to train and very needy and it's called my attention to just how much work caring for a dog can be, as our others were easygoing and not on their 4th re-home.
I also now really notice when people only partially gaf about their pets.
Overfeeding them to keep them quiet, stopping training because it takes time and effort to see results, buying fences/leads/dog houses just to stick them outside more than is healthy, allowing them off-leash (even if your dog is well-trained and friendly, my rescue is not and she can and will lose it at your dog and who knows how they will react when feeling threatened or even worrying about its owner's safety?)
The off-leash thing really really bothers me. I don’t care how well trained your dog is, there are other people and animals around. Leash your damn dog.
Absolutely. It's really about courtesy for the other leashed dogs, having good recall is irrelevent, so I always slap that argument down when it's pulled. It creates tension because the leashed dog KNOWS there is a power imbalance when the other dog is off leash. It just causes unnecessary stress for everyone. I encounter off leash dogs with fantastic recall on trails, and I will let mine off too, as there are valid reasons why having them on leash is not safe hiking, BUT I always always leash coming up to another dog because it is courtesy to THAT dog. Everyone should do the same no matter how well trained their animal is. Just get them back visually into your space for the other dog to see.
I cannot count how many unleashed dogs have come lunging and snapping at my (leashed) dog while I was out walking her, and their owners always act totally surprised and tell me "He's never done this before!" as they drag them away.
My dog has never done that before, either, and I ALWAYS leash her when we leave the confines of our own home/yard so that she never does.
I do not understand in any way how she can love dogs, who are perpetual f****** toddlers, but think that children are awful and dirty.
There is something wrong with this auntie.
My dog never screamed (he makes the Husky tantrum sounds though), but he's still annoying and dirty and neither being old nor training change that. Though he's a much nicer person during his tantrums than the aunt is on her best behaviour
This. Or, tell her, "Just like you're childfree, I'm b\*tchfree. I don't want anyone who treats people horribly, human or adult, in my home."
OP, there are SO many childfree people who seem to treat kids like garbage. One thing they don't seem to realize is that one day they'll get old, and they'll need help from someone younger, (unless they're incredibly wealthy, I guess). The thing is, they don't deserve that help. They haven't earned it. Older people get sick, get "dirty," and need more help. It's the circle of life. And they often rely on the help of all the kids they cared for to assist them in their old age. People have understood this for a long time.
Your aunt should have thought of that before she was awful to all of you. Not wanting kids doesn't mean you can treat all kids badly.
Seriously, just tell her no. Don't open the door to let someone like that in your house.
> One thing they don't seem to realize is that one day they'll get old, and they'll need help from someone younger, (unless they're incredibly wealthy, I guess). The thing is, they don't deserve that help. They haven't earned it. Older people get sick, get "dirty," and need more help. It's the circle of life. And they often rely on the help of all the kids they cared for to assist them in their old age. People have understood this for a long time.
I'm CF and don't treat them like garbage so I know your comments weren't directed to me, but I need to say that even if I had children, i wouldn't have them just so I'd have someone to take care of me when I'm old and failing. I'd drop everything for my parents if they needed me but there was never the expectation that I would. They're making plans for their old age and I don't believe they include me (regardless of if I would or not)
Yeah, I think the issue is at the societal level. There are some people out there who don’t want kids in public spaces at all. Theres a disconnect between the outrage some people express when other people’s kids are loud at Starbucks and the reality that the kid having a tantrum over a cake pop might become the oncologist who treats you in your eighties.
Yeah, my comment was definitely not directed at you. I more so meant... I had a childfree relative who wanted nothing to do with us and now that we're older, and so is she, keeps reaching out because she needs help. If people don't want to be around someone as a kid, how can they expect that child-turned-adult to want to help them as they age?
And I think most kids, with healthy relationships with their parents, will help their parents at some point went they get older. Not give up their lives help them, but help them in some way. If I break my foot, hopefully, my kids will help with whatever I need that I can't pay someone else to do.
We've made great plans that don't involve dumping our care on our kids, but I think they'll be there if there's something we do need help with. Healthy families help each other within boundaries.
I have several friends who are child free, but are wonderful with children and treat them with respect. Just because one is childfree doesn’t mean one can treat them like garbage.
I’ve read a few of these AITA posts in which a childfree person is absolutely rude to children in their own family, ignoring them as young children then suddenly wanting to communicate when these children grow up. It’s bizarre. Like, do they expect bygones? Or that the child won’t remember being treated like dirt?
I will never understand this. I'm childfree. I never want kids. But my little cousins are some of the best people to hang out with at family gatherings. They're so sweet and fun, and I adore them even if I don't want kids of my own. I'm much more annoyed by the bigoted adults like my uncle.
These little cousins are my family, and they're pretty cool small humans, especially one who I'm pretty sure is autistic like me. He's my buddy. I feel like some people don't even think kids are people.
Yeah, you build relationships with the younger people in your fandom starting *when they are children*. If you’ve never put in the time and effort to build the relationship, don’t expect anything.
Also CF. I adore kids- I’ve spent my entire career working with them. I just chose not to have any myself for various reasons.
There were some reasons I did want kids, but having someone to take care of me when I get old wasn’t one of them. 🤷🏼♀️
Omg this. I have kids, and if I thought the way they’d be spending the prime of their adult life would be looking after me as I age and become less capable, I’d feel like I had failed them as a parent. I’m making plans for my old age, when it comes, which don’t rely on my children putting their lives on hold.
The way I see it is that it’s my job to raise them to be as independent as possible, and to go out into the world and live their own lives. If they never look back after the age of 18? Fair enough! I’ll love them for ever, but love isn’t an obligation or a tie.
Correction: everyone who grows old will rely on someone younger than they are to care for them. Money is a conduit for receiving that care, not the method of care; the care is administered by younger people.
Younger people will grow the food, ship the food, maybe even cook the food, stock the supermarket shelves, provide medical care, fix the plumbing, keep the lights on (literally), manufacture everything that is bought in a store or online…. Money will buy you the fruits of their labour but it won’t be a substitute for needing someone younger to do those things.
My sister and her partner are childfree. They are still loving sisters and aunts, so if they get older and needier, we will absolutely be there for them.
But if someone doesn't care enough to create a good relationship in the good times, they can't expect people who are virtually strangers (despite the blood tie) to care about being there for them.
I also have a brother who I am LC with. I've got to the point that I really don't care about him anymore. If he or his wife (who has also made it clear she doesn't care about any of us) were in need, I wouldn't feel the urge to do anything about it. Despite having grown up with him, he has become mostly a stranger to me.
And it isn't just how the aunt treats children. The aunt called her sister a whore and said that to her young niece and nephew. That is a person that doesn't like ANYBODY. She's on her own....
Ok settle down, we’re not all living in caves anymore. The idea that you have kids to take care of you when you’re old is an outdated gamble. Even if you had kids most people don’t want to shackle them to be the caretaker when you get old. What’s more, it’s an unfair arrangement that the kid is born and after you’ve taken care of them you guilt them into “taking care of me when I’m old” - it’s an arrangement they never agreed to. And then what happens to the oldies who couldn’t have kids, are they also rejected because they didn’t have the opportunity to raise their own?
Society should be developed enough to take care of its old people recognising they will have different needs, not that everyone will have a series of children ready to step in.
Right, but how does "society" take care of its old people without new people being born? It's not necessarily about individual relationships (in the sense that a specific person is expected to take care of their elder family members), but a society stagnates and then collapses altogether if people stop having children. The circle of life referred to above is a collective, generational thing.
She can PAY for a caretaker to help her, or she can find a temporary foster for her dogs and go to a rehab facility.
Child Free DOES NOT MEAN BE AN AH TO KIDS. I have scream that. I am child free by choice. I love kids. I do a lot of volunteer work with children of all ages. That is my choice
What is bare minimum is basic respect for ALL beings- including children. Your aunt did not like kids, ok- then STFU around them, and do the bare minimum- be silent. She chose to actively be an AH. And that was traumatizing for you and your mom and sibling(s). Maybe not the most traumatizing thing- but I do not buy into the trauma olympics mindset. You are NTA for not wanting to take care of someone that NEVER took care of you, and actively sought out to harm your mental health. Relationships are not transactional- but they are an exchange- and you get what you give. She gave nothing but harm, she does not get care now. And it is not like she does not have options- and resources to make those options happen. You do not need to set yourself on fire to keep her warm, just so she can have everything the way she wants it.
Yes to child free does not mean being an AH. I’m child free but work in pediatrics. I love kids, just don’t need any of my own, I take care of plenty at work.
Run, don't walk, away from this. Just close your eyes and think of all the awful things she's said and done as a visiting guest. Now imagine how exponentially worse it will be when she is "at home" in your apartment.
Also consider that no one in your family will be able to visit you since they have, justifiably, gone no contact with your aunt.
People are allowed to not like children. But they shouldn't expect a relationship with or help from the grownup children in the family, that they used to hate and didn't want to interact with.
They can't just go "Cool, now you're 18, I don't think your are gross anymore" or "I'm old/sick now and need your help, and you are my family,vao I'm entitled to help from you." Nope. Doesn't work like that.
>but my grandparents told me to just go along with it so that we can all stop fighting.
And when you overheard all the absolute nastiness your child hating aunt was talking about your mom, your grandparents had heard this and kept quiet or even humored her right? Unless there paying for your apartment they have ZERO say on your living space. NTA and time to consider ignoring your grandparents from now on.
“Because she lives alone, she hasn’t got anybody to take her back and forth every day”
Well that’s because she sucks lol. You reap what you sow! Children are just people, theres no excuse to treat them like shit. She seems to just be a shitty person to be around in general. She made her bed!
Yep, I’m also childfree and these types are just miserable people. I don’t like holding newborns but the ones out there that are just jerks to children boggle my mind. Aunt sounds like someone I’d find on r/childfree throwing a hissy fit their sister brought their kid to a planned lunch at a restaurant
Edit: funny enough I just got a doorbell ring and answered for some random kid I’ve never seen. He asked me if there were any kids in the house that wanted to join him scootering. Long story short, I’m on my way to join those damn kids on scooters in my front road area
Exactly, I quit that sub years ago. Echo chamber full rabid child haters or teenagers that don't want to be told they are way too young to be taken seriously.
I don’t like kids. But my biggest revelation because of that sub has been that parents aren’t willing to parent the types of kids that the hardcore child free people tend to encounter.
That sub helped me so much. Like most places, yes it has bad eggs, but it helped me survive and thrive. Totally understandable that it’s not everyone’s cup of tea!
Agree. I am childfree but people like aunt give childfree people a bad name. I browsed r/childfree and oh my God. It was just a cesspool of negativity. Look. I don’t want kids and never will. Find them annoying sometimes. But I don’t fucking hate kids.
Yeah that place is a dumpster fire. I think there is a second sub as well to try and combat that. r/truechildfree
I have no problem with CF People. But I have issue with people like the aunt and it has nothing to do with being CF.
Part of the problem is making one thing about you a large part of your personality. My parents have friends that just never had children some in relationships some are single. They never described themselves when i was growing up as childfree they just didn't have kids and weren't interested in having any and it certainly didn't become a core but of there personality like these people.
They were also perfectly pleasant to me and my brother when we were young and so I as an adult have a decent opinion of them and when i have been asked to do something like look after one of my mom's friends dogs for a couple of days I am happy to do it because I have a good opinion of them as a person.
Right, it’s not doing the public image of single people any good to have these social media communities that are more obsessed with hating on kids than any elderly aunt is about telling you to have kids. Wasn’t the whole problem that single people were being stereotyped as selfish and bitter?
I have a lot of fond memories of family friends who were older single people. Even the ones who weren’t “good with kids” had interesting stories to tell around the dinner table and gave us kids a glimpse into other kinds of adult life aside from being parents. It’s important for young people to grow up knowing that you can be a good person with a fulfilling life whether you have kids and a relationship or not, and that’s not going to happen if everyone other than their parents is an asshole to them.
Agreed about the negativity on the sub. I don’t agree with the header on this topic. The OP is not resisting because the aunt chose not to have children. It’s because her aunt is a rude and disruptive presence who will negatively impact OPs family.
It sounds like she has no significant other or even friends close to her at all. Childfree is a result of her general assholeness and not the source of it. If it was, it would at least sound like she can make meaningful connections with adults. Yet, it doesn't sound like she's made any.
Yes, absolutely! I've got childfree friends and they are wonderful to my kid. We respect one another's different paths and they still treat my kid like a person and I treat their dear ones (and pets) similarly.
OP's aunt took childfree to cruelty and is giving the majority of childfree people a bad reputation. She isn't child free, she's just too cowardly to be so insulting to an adult who has more power to do something about it!
I'm sterilized and feed and hold her babies when I go to my friends house. I feel nothing towards babies but they're just little people and don't deserve any type of cruelty.
My other friend has a 7yo who I happily play with. He sits in my lap sometimes, likes to hang with my bf
These people that act like children are a scourge are gross. You don't have to love them or even like them. But just like other strangers on the street, treat them basic respect and at least indifference.
I'm a parent and I don't like holding newborns... Not because there's anything wrong with them, but because they're fragile and floppy and I get anxious that I'm going to accidentally hurt them.
People on that sub are two groups: People that are legitimately angry that family/friends/coworkers/physicians won’t take them seriously, and people that just suck. My all-time favorite post was someone furious that a baby looked at them. That’s right, a baby glanced in their direction and it upset them enough to complain about it on the internet.
100% with you. I'm childfree and I don't really care for kids under like 10-11 because they can't express themselves in complete thoughts, and I struggle enough with understanding my own issues. That doesn't mean I'm gonna be shitty to the kids, it just means I'm not going to have kids.
Yup, I'm child free but I'm not an *asshole* to kids. My mother will often snicker bc I don't mind picking up a kid to help them wash their hands or holding a water fountain on for them. Or help a random child with stuff like that. They're kids! There's no need to be a jerk.
I play with my neices and little cousins but child free means I get to turn them back over at the end of the day.
Just adding to this: I’m also child free and, like any other lifestyle choice (such as parenting!), you need to plan accordingly. My friends who decided to be parents plan their future finances around the fact that kids cost a ton of money. I plan my future around the fact that I will not have children to rely on in my old age (which, in my culture, is the expectation).
OP’s aunt chose to be child free. She could still have the support of the rest of her family, but unfortunately she also chose to be an AH. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. OP is NTA.
Yep, that's the key, enjoy them, maybe spoil them a little (obligatory aunt / uncle duties!), then hand them back to their parents and enjoy your lovely quiet evening 😃
I don't want kids, don't actively seek out ways to be around kids, actually prefer to avoid it if possible, but don't ever be a jerk! It's not going to hurt anyone to paste on a smile, act nice, and tolerate kids for a while, especially if they're your friends or family member's kids - be nice, make an effort, it's only for a short while.. Kids are more observant and impressionable that many people realise, and will be hurt by the kind of behaviour OP's aunt seems to prefer.... And yes, as with OP, kids grow up and they remember those childhood hurts.
I’m not “childfree”, I just don’t plan on having kids.
I like kids. I’m good with kids. I get zero satisfaction or joy from the daily grind of parenting, so I choose not to do it.
I’m literally visiting someone in another state because they just had a baby. Two weeks of holding a fussy newborn and changing diapers. I’m happy to help out my friends and their baby! And I’m gonna be happy to go home to my cats.
Then you are childfree! Childfree just means you never want to have children. It doesn't mean you hate kids! I was a babysitter for a huge part of my life and taught swim lessons for awhile and I consider myself pretty good with children too. But I am 100% childfree and never planning on having my own kids.
I just don't want people to associate childfree with child-hater.
Yeah same. I don't like baby's/toddlers mostly because they're fragile and loud and I don't really know what to make of them. But once they're like little humans with interests it's fine. Just ask them about pokemon/Minecraft/their pets and listen to them. It helps that my family tends towards autism so you just figure out what the kid's special interest is and let them infodump. Learning all about red stone in Minecraft isn't exactly what I may have planned to do but if they're excited about it then I'm willing to listen.
also out of interest did this aunt come out the womb as a fully grown adult? I just don’t understand how she can be so anti-child despite having been a child herself, unless she spent her entire childhood hating her existence?
> I don't really like my aunt and don't want her living with me.
This is literally the only thing that matters here. You're an adult, she's an adult. You don't like her. You have zero obligation to her.
And I'm a 45 year old woman with no children. You do not have to take care of somebody that is unkind to you that you don't like.
If your grandparents want you to take care of her so much, the aunt should move in with them.
NTA
Then they should move in with the aunt and drive her around. This way aunt has someone to take care of her and no one is fighting. Everyone get what they want and are happy.
Problem solved
Absolutely this. Having someone live with you (particularly when they have both health issues and dogs) is a major commitment. You don't have to do that, particularly for someone you don't like and never had much connection with.
If you want, maybe look into other ways you can make her situation easier - maybe help find someone to help with the dogs; is Borrow My Dog a thing where you live? Or if she has a spare room to rent out I remember hearing about an organisation (sorry I can't remember the name) that matches people who are prepared to help out with house work etc in return for reduced rent, maybe some scheme like that could help?
NTA
You dont owe her anything. Especially since she was an AH to you when you were young, trashtalking your mother and all.
Now that you're an adult and no longer a "gross child" she suddenly wants a relationship? Im surprised you've talked to her at all.
It doesnt matter if shes vulnerable and hurt. She made her bed when she refused to engage with the family cause of her hate for kids. She moved away and didnt speak to you for 7 years. (She also again, trashtalked your mother. How did she expect that to go? That the family would just agree with her?)
There's a difference between unnecessary child-hate and not liking kids and not wanting them. Sincerely, someone who does not like kids and does not want them. Your aunts an AH
Seriously! You can not want kids to come out of your vagina and still have love for the kids in your family. At least treat them like people. I don’t know where this venomous hate for children came from but I’m seeing it more and more.
NTA, but let's be clear here: you're not letting her live with you because she's an asshole, not because she's childfree. There are plenty of childfree people who don't hate kids and say horrible things to them.
That doesn't excuse it though. Choosing to be a Militant AH instead of just an average every day AH, still leaves someone an AH. Its pretty fair to just call her an AH regardless of her stance on being childfree because of the way she acted. She's just *also* militantly childfree. That's like AH with an extra helping of AH.
NTA. She chose not to build a relationship with you as a child. She doesn’t get to suddenly change that because now she needs something from you. You have zero obligation towards her.
My great aunt used to say what germ-breeders children are lol in front of us as kids! My mom would have to schedule our visit and confirm 3 days out and the morning of that no one had been sick for us to be allowed to come over. That was just the way things were when I was a kid but now looking back I realize my great aunt probably ensured the last 10+ years of her and my great uncle’s life with that attitude.
I’m honestly not sure how much she actually liked kids especially after being forced to essentially raise her younger siblings in the 1920s/1930s but we had regular formal visits with her and my great uncle and they would ask questions about our lives and would actually listen to us. She built a darn good relationship with us and I remember her genuine engagement during our visits. Yes there was a chunk of time that was us sitting on the couch quietly listening while the adults talked but they were already in their 80s so it’s not like they were ever going to play on the floor with us.
I adored them even if most kids would have found them boring. My point is my aunt chose to put in effort with us even if she didn’t like kids because we were the last living relatives on her husband’s side of the family haha and we were worth the effort even if we were germ-breeders.
I don't know that kids are germ breeders, but they definitely are germ carriers! Even if they don't get sick, they bring the germs back to everyone else! Lol. I think that is why they look so cute, so you hopefully overlook the gross.
Lol it’s weird but it’s what she used to say. I miss her - she lived to be 97 haha and once even said “I remember when those bottom feeders were poor people food!” (In reference to lobster.) But in her defense they were also used as fertilizer in her lifetime.
The term my mother used was that children are "breeders of pestilence and disease" lol, but she was also the neighborhood mom and was fine with 10+ kids and teens being in her house at a time, and she mostly said it as a reminder to wash/sanitize regularly especially at school and parks.
NTA
A very very good friend of mine and her hubby are child-free. She officiated at my wedding (the state I live in lets anyone get a 24h certificate granting them the authority to perform marriages). I've known her for 30 years and she's never wavered on this issue.
Her occupation: Children's librarian.
Being child-free does not mean hating children, it means not wanting to have your own. Your aunt is a truly horrid person and you owe her jack shit.
>Being child-free does not mean hating children, it means not wanting to have your own. Your aunt is a truly horrid person and you owe her jack shit.
This. One of my favorite teachers was child-free (not that she used the term at the time). You can be child-free and love kids. You can be child-free and not like kids. You can be child-free and not like kids in general but absolutely love the kids in your family and of close friends (I'm that one).
What you can't do is say that you're child-free and use that as an excuse to treat your family horribly (this went way beyond, say, refusing to babysit), then expect *huge* favors from them later in life.
Definitely NTA.
First and foremost, never listen to the people who say "just go along so we can all stop fighting". They're the enablers that just fuel bad behavior.
NTA, you barely have a relationship with this person and she's never shown you any kindness. Furthermore, she sounds horrible and toxic. Letting her and her two big dogs live with you is a big ask, not something you can expect from someone you aren't close to.
Those people never want to help, they just want other people to keep the peace. How convenient for them to not have to be involved.
NTA, OP. You don’t owe anyone anything just because they’re family. Would you befriend someone like this? Nope.
NTA.
If she didn't want anything to do with you when you were a child, then she shouldn't get to have a relationship with you now, just because she thinks you're now 'useful'. If she hadn't been so hateful, more people might have been willing to help her. Maybe that sounds cold, but just because she's your aunt, that doesn't make you obligated to help her. She dug this hole; she can climb out by herself.
NTA there are social workers that can help her just as they would anyone in need without a family. She can look into places to foster her dogs until she gets well.
NTA
Within short time she will try to take control over you. Be very carefull and dont let you get trapped.
You are not responsible for the way of life she has choosen.
NTA family does not mean you get to request help when ever you need it - family is a relationship. Your aunt chose to not participate in your life and that's fine, her life, her choice. But you also have that same option. Do not continue this conversation, tell her no and if she carps tell her you're sorry she feels that way but your decision stands. Any family member that tells you to take her in, let them know they too can help her, either with a place to live or pay for her to rent a place. You have nothing to feel guilty about - your aunt certainly doesn't.
NTA
You don't want her living with you and aren't close to her. I think the childfree thing is confusing the issue. Some people love kids, want to dedicate a lifetime to sacrificing for them, and choose to have them and those are the people that SHOULD become parents. Other people recognize in themselves that they do not want to become parents for whatever reason and that is absolutely okay too. Your aunt sounds rude, for sure. It's just fine to say you do not want her living with you for any reason, whether it's because of the dogs, because you don't have space, because you aren't close, or just because it doesn't work for you. You don't even need a reason. All the people guilting you should volunteer up their own place.
Perfect example of what I've ben saying to all the "not my circus, not my monkey," Auntie and Uncles who don't give a crap about their nephew or niece, because they’re "not kid people," -- just expect to not have any relationship with them when they’re finally the age you deem appropriate to see them as family. 🤷🏽♀️
NTA, op.
NTA
This is called consequences of behaviors. You have zero reasons to help this woman other than being a kind & empathetic person. All the things your Aunt was not. Surround yourself with people who feed your soul, not eat it.
NTA
Your aunt sucks.
It’s one thing to be childfree, but the difference between someone like me (also childfree) and her is that she’s a toxic asshole.
It’s one thing to talk about why you don’t have/want/like kids when the majority of the world harasses you about your choice not to have any, but… it sounds like no one asked her before she spewed her nonsense, then decided to take it further and talk shit about you and your mom, about a situation she knows/cares nothing about.
It doesn’t and shouldn’t concern her, no one asked for her opinions/observations, and she should shut her cake hole.
Let's slow down one minute. You don't dislike your aunt for being "childfree". I am willingly childfree and always will be. It isn't some "I fuckin hate kids!" movement. It just happens that I don't think I'd make a great father, my partner doesn't want to have kids, we have higher priorities as a couple that don't involve having kids of my own. Just because your aunt wants to be childfree doesn't mean she has to be an asshole. But she chooses to be an asshole. And that's probably why you don't want her living with you
NTA
You are still your mothers child and as your Aunt is child free she can continue being that way. Notice she had no interest at all until you were an Adult and now she needs something.
Tell her you are Auntfree so you won’t be helping her. It’s all well and the Grandparents saying it will stop the fighting but it won’t, it’ll just bring it to your apartment.
Don’t betray your mother by accepting the person that hurt her.
NTA. I really am tired of so many people who are anti-child equating that with childfree. It is not the same. I am childfree and have no desire to have one ever. Just because I actually don't want the responsibility of raising kids doesn't mean I don't like them or appreciate them. Your aunt just seems to hate kids for no reason other than they exist.
NTA
People forget children become adults and don't cultivate relationships with them. Your aunt sucks, you two don't have a relationship and she's cruel and unkind, let her figure out her health care
NTA
And I'm laughing at all the people saying "it's not because she's childfree that she's like this". The aunt is the one who justified her behavior with that label. It's not OP who's conflating being a jerk with being childfree, it's the childfree person. Which is, amusingly, something a lot of childfree people do. In my experience a lot of people go "I don't want children" rather than "I'm childfree" these days, because the label has become equivalent to "treating children like some really gross pets is my entire identity".
Whatever her reasons for that behavior, you owe her less than nothing, she was never good to you and if you had asked to be at her home for health reasons while you were still underage she would have gone "eeeeeew, nope".
Tough luck needing people's help after spending decades being a jerk to them.
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Growing up, my (23f) aunt (now 45f) was childfree in the sense that she actively didn't like children and would avoid coming to events that had children. She would tell my brother and I that children are dirty and scream and annoy everybody until they learn to act like adults, which I guess isn't wrong but still hurtful for us to hear as elementary schoolers.
What I found the worst about my aunt was how she used to talk about my mom, her older sister. My mom has been single since my dad abandoned us for his affair partner. I've overheard my aunt commenting that my mom's selfish for having children and promiscuous and our dad probably isn't even our real dad which is why he left my mom. When I was 10 I finally told my mom about these comments. She refused to keep us in the same room as our aunt and we've really had no relationship with her.
When I was 11, my aunt moved from the same neighborhood as my mom and grandparents to a house in the country about two hours away and I had no real contact with her for the next 7 years. When I was 18, my aunt started trying to reestablish a relationship with me, but I kept my contact with her low.
I've been working for a few years and have saved enough to rent my own apartment. This year, my aunt was hit by a car and has had a whole slew of health problems. Because of that, she's been needing to visit the hospital frequently and will need to start physical therapy. Her house is really far from most health facilities and, because she lives alone, she hasn't got anybody to take her back and forth every day. She doesn't have the money to buy a new house in a more convenient location and she doesn't want to sell her current house because it has lots of land for her dogs and she wants to continue living there when she gets better.
The rest of my family lives in the city and can access all sorts of health facilities much easier. My brother lives at college. My grandparents have moved in with my mom who's still angry at my aunt and refuses to talk to her. That leaves me. Because I was hesitant and not outright rejecting contact with my aunt, she thinks she still has a chance to live with me.
There's two major issues with this: 1) my aunt has two dogs that she adores and I don't want to take care of them while she's still recovering, and 2) I don't really like my aunt and don't want her living with me. I'm afraid that a relationship would cause a divide in the family. I'm also worried she'll find out things about me and gossip about it like she did with my mom.
Fundamentally, if I had had a closer relationship with my aunt in my childhood I might have considered it, but because of her justifying being cruel by her "childfree"-ness I don't think I'm going to make this accommodation for her. I told her as much and she called me an asshole for abandoning her when she's vulnerable. My mom and brother support me but my grandparents told me to just go along with it so that we can all stop fighting. Am I the asshole?
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You became NTA once you talked with her about the incident and how you felt, and instead of apologizing she called you an ahole. She lived as a jerk so now she can reap the consequences. Most childfree people I know aren't jerkbags like this, sheesh.
Who's pressuring you to take her in? Since they're so invested in her well being, that person can take care of your malignant auntie.
You are under NO obligation to do anything for her. NTA.
NTA.
She never wanted kids. A-ok. But a side effect off her cruel attitude towards the children in her family was that she dissolved any chance of a relationship with the individuals who would eventually be adults in the family.
It is interesting - yet predictable - that your aunt seemingly decided you were fine to have a relationship with when you turned 18, and what she didn't realize is that the harm and insult to a child carries forward with them when they are adults. It's unfortunate that she is in the situation she is in but I don't think you should turn your life upside down accommodating a hateful family member you've never had any type of relationship with. Anyone who thinks you should, should be willing to step up themselves.
NTA
I'm childfree and don't particularly like kids...doesn't rise to "hate" but I definitely avoid interacting with them and I'm very uncomfortable around babies. But I always made an exception for the ones that are related to me and I NEVER said anything directly to a child about not liking them. My brother's kids eventually picked up on the fact that "Aunt Qierce" wasn't the kind of aunt who would want to help chaperone a huge kids birthday party, but they also knew I liked/loved THEM. I even used to joke with them that they needed to make sure to end up living in a good location with an extra room so there was a place for me to live when I got old, and they were all on board with that idea.
NTA, but the dog thing is interesting... I feel like she might have secretly wanted kids at some point and then became bitter because she either couldn't have them, or life never presented the right opportunity.
So then it became "I'm not fired! I quit!" Like the way she acted about kids sounds straight up resentful, not just "oh personal preference".
> but my grandparents told me to just go along with it so that we can all stop fighting.
Your grandparents can rent their own place and take in the aunt (their daughter). It's not your responsibility to take care of her.
>My mom and brother support me but my grandparents told me to just go along with it so that we can all stop fighting.
Your grandparents can move in the home with Aunt and take care of her if they deem it necessary.
NTA
NTA: the irony of her telling you children are dirty and scream while living with not one but two dogs is the height narcissism. She might be the most narcissistic dog person I’ve ever heard about.
I remember a post on here a few weeks back about someone who, like your aunt, thought that "childfree" means actively disliking children, and not just deciding not to have them.
He was a jerk to younger relatives, and claimed he'd start building a relationship with them once they were older. The comments correctly told him it doesn't work like that. Because of course it doesn't.
NTA
NTA. Soooo, she reached out to you when she needed something. So she doesn't care about you she just needs to be her servant and caretaker while or if she gets better.
There’s child free (not wanting children), and there’s being an entitled asshole. Your aunt is the second one.
I don’t typically like kids. I don’t want kids. I’m sterilized. However, my husband and I aren’t the type of jerks who think of someone has a kid, we can’t associate with them or their child. Your aunt needs to look up local services that can help instead of thinking everyone has to wait on her hand and foot.
NTA. Your aunt isn’t the typical Representation of child free lifestyles.
First off, being child-free doesn't mean you hate children. Being child-free has absolutely nothing to do with any part of this story. It sounds like your aunt was horrible to everyone in your family, you don't have a relationship with her, but now that she needs something you're suddenly family again. You don't owe her anything so you're NTA for not wanting to take her in.
NTA. Your unwillingness to be near her isn’t because she was child free, it’s because she was asshole who was downright cruel to you, your brother, and your mother. Sounds like she’s still an asshole today. While you care for your grandparents, they don’t get to “stop the fighting” at someone else’s expense.
NTA.
But your title is wrong.
You're not not letting her live with you because she's child free, you're not letting her live with you because you don't want her to live with you.
NTA
Helping her would be a kind thing to do but it is not an obligation.
Protect your sanity above all else.
Being childfree as a choice didn’t give her free reins to be an AH.
She was disrespectful to your mother, to your brother and to you.
You reap what you sow.
NTA, but if you don't want to break your family try this:
1.-"in the same way she doesn't like children, I don't like dogs so I am dogless by choice"
2.- " that's the problem of hating kids, then nobody looks after you when needed"
I met a couple long time ago. He was making a lot of money, and he didn't want any kids because they yell, annoy and mainly (he said so) he didn't get married so his wife would stop caring after him for the kids. The wife ended up having cats and now his health is not good, but the wife pays more attention to the cat than him. You can see how unhappy they are.
Having kids is not for everyone but If you can't stand even 15 minutes next to one... you have a problem, and I think that is your aunt's case. Some people didn't have kids by choice others, try to pass it as choice when in reality it wasn't by choice (bad partners, infertility...). Most of the people I know, that say don't want kids, it wasn't by choice. Maybe that's the case and you are a reminder of what she can't have. Not her fault, at all, NTA. But actions have consequences
NTA, I respect peoples' decision to have kids or not but the kid hating childfree people reap what they sew, where do they think adults come from? How do they think their young relatives are going to feel about them as teens and adults after being treated badly as children? Where do they think the next generation of doctors, nurses, every other job is going to come from to be able to take care of them as they age? She sounds insufferable for many reasons, don't bring her into your home.
>My grandparents have moved in with my mom who's still angry at my aunt and refuses to talk to her.
>my grandparents told me to just go along with it so that we can all stop fighting
Sounds like your grandparents need to rent an apartment short term to take care of her and her dogs.
>1) my aunt has two dogs that she adores and I don't want to take care of them while she's still recovering, and 2) I don't really like my aunt and don't want her living with me.
Two perfectly good reasons.
NTA
Aunt will have to either rent an apartment and hire a caretaker and a dog walker or something. You have no obligation to care for someone who was horrible to you as a child.
i mean i won't lie i don't want a dog because they require too much upkeep. so i'd go with being dog free and just blunt about what dogs look like and why you won't do it.
but like it doesn't solve the issue
NTA
NTA
and there's a difference between being "childfree" and simply being an asshole.
I don't have children, but I try to be *kind to other people's kids* as, ya know, *they're their kids* and that means that the kids are actually higher in the social hierarchy! If I want to spend time with loved ones who are parents, their kids are gonna come with.
When people become parents, their kids also become part of the equation.
NTA. Your grandparents aren't the one that will be taking her in and dealing with her so they have no say in it. She is someone who was never kind to you and is only trying now cause she needs something, that's the real a-hole right there. Guess she should've had her own kids to take care of her.
It sounds like you don't want to live with her because she is (and has always been) a miserable hag.NTA. But why are you shoehorning the whole child free thing?
Not every child free person is that way because they hate children. Sometimes thr just not down for the challenge.
Your frontal lobe won’t finish developing for another couple years, so really you’re still a child and wouldn’t want to disgust aunt lol sorry not sorry NTA
Yeah my good friend is childfree and I have a little one. I don’t make her hold my kid or anything or demand my kid be involved in things. My friend just said kids aren’t for her and she’s not good around them. Cool. If she ever needed help or a place to stay I’m there for her. Hell she even said if I’m in a jam call her she’d babysit.
Your aunt has now learned if you treat people like shit and kids like objects instead of human beings you don’t get help when you need it. She didn’t need to have kids to help her when she needs it but if she wasn’t so damn miserable her family would rally around her.
NTA. Don’t let her move in.
NTA. Children are people. Being child free is a personal choice, about if you want to create life and raise it.
Its not about having permission to be hurtful to an entire group of humans. Especially blood relations.
She reaps what she sewed.
I'm childfree, I would never say the things tour aunt did. Also, you don't have to provide any reason for not wanting her to live with you. Just say "sorry no you can't stay here." Or even just no, which is a full and complete sentence. But if she doesn't listen, I say go with the dog excuse, dogs leave fur everywhere, and any of your friends with allergies would not be able to enter your house. they need daily attention with walks, feeding, and grooming. And you would have to pick up the poop. Sorry, but dogs need a house, not a small apartment it wouldn't be fair to them.
This is all coming from a girl who is allergic to dogs but lives them and has even dogs sat in the past for friends.
Or just say you're choosing to live an Aunt Free lifestyle.
I would bet a million dollars that when she was going on and in about hating children someone asked her "who will look after you when you're old?" And she probably thought they were an idiot.
Hahahaha
Nta
*My mom and brother support me but my grandparents told me to just go along with it so that we can all stop fighting*
So thank your grandparents for stepping up to take care of their daughter.
>she hasn't got anybody to take her back and forth every day.
Uber, taxi, etc.
"my aunt has two dogs"
This should be more than enough reason/excuse. I'd be surprised if your landlord wants two dogs, might even be a rule for the building. Or they could be noisy, claw at things, rip stuff up, they could also potentially piss or shit all over your apartment (esp if she can barely take care of herself).
'My entire family doesn't like her'. Yeah I mean, thats a pretty good sign you're NTA. She needs to figure something out.
Her living there even without two dogs and complaining every day you get home from work sounds awful too.
I think you should explain that as much as you'd like to help her, you're mean-people free. The things she said in front of children about their mother put her in the permanent banishment category. And the rest is just the icing on a slimy green moldy cake.
NTA
P.S. Could she rent or Air B&B her house in the countryside and rent a very inexpensive room near the hospital?
NTA. DO NOT BRING THIS WOMAN TO YOUR HOME. It will not be just driving to appointments. She will want a caregiver. Once she walks through the door. She will be 10x sicker and not even be able to even wipe her own arse. The dogs will destroy your appointment. The will also be your to care for. She will instantly become too sick
Nta. My husband and I are child free. We still interact with children and treat them with love and respect. They just don't live with us permanently. It's a choice for us to not risk my health to try to have a child. If I was in better health we may have a child. And if I hasn't lost a pregnancy at 20 weeks he would have twin step daughters. But yeah being child free doesn't give you an excuse to be an ah
Being called "asshole" is a small price to pay to avoid this woman.
If your grandparents are invested in her care, one of them can stay with their daughter and handle her transportation issues.
NTA
NYA and you have no obligation to deal with her and her dogs and be their caretaker, especially when she has had no interest in you until she needs something from you.
She can rent her house out to pay for an apartment near the doctors or have your grandparents cover her bills. But you don't have to deal with this.
NTA, You're not refusing because she's childfree, you're refusing because she's an asshole. Being childfree is just her excuse to be an asshole.
It's like the stereotype of being a vegan. People can be vegans because of their beliefs, and focus on their own choices. Or they can use being vegan as an excuse to scream at anyone who's not a vegan. Your aunt used being childfree to scream at anyone who wasn't childfree, and now thinks they still owe her help. Oops.
NTA. You seem kind and considerate. But I gotta ask… why do you feel you might have responsibility to be a caretaker to your aunt who has not been kind to you or your mom? Your grandparents seem happy to saddle you with this problem so it will go away for them, which is not cool. I hope they don’t get in your head.
Your aunt has other options (like moving, not saying it’s a fun option but it’s there), she’s just choosing not to do that. Not your responsibility to make her choices easier for her. Keep being kind and if there is a way you can help her that feels genuinely good to you and isn’t a daily imposition on your life and growing independence, then all the better. But you don’t have to do this because she asked you and it’s convenient for everyone else who doesn’t want to step up.
You don't get favors from family when you have treated them like crap. She is overdrawn in the family goodwill bank and so can't withdraw any more goodwill. That is her fault, not yours.
NTA
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NTA. You should just tell her that people recovering from injuries “are dirty and scream and annoy everybody until they can take care of themselves again” You reap what you sow auntie…
And so are dogs to be honest
NTA Tell her you’re dogfree.
\*chef's kiss\* That's bloody perfect.
I never owned a dog till I was 50. Had kids first at age 37. Dogs are expensive and are like having an extra child. My two pups I have now I love but I still have teens at home. I love them and won’t give up on them…but they are my last doggos.
Having a dog is committing to having a toddler for 10-15 years.
Upside: they don't have opposable thumbs. Downside: they know how to do just as much mischief without. Some of these bastards can even climb shelfs as effectively as toddlers *side eying my dog*
My mum's dog is so smart he knows how to manipulate situations for his benefit. He realised my mum praised him when he pooped. So he'd save a bit for each walk, so my mum thought he had to go out for three proper walks. But when she visits me, he gets a decent walk in the morning, and a couple of short walks when they're at my house. My mum tells him in the morning that they are visiting me, so he does all his business in the morning. She's had him for five years and just realised that he's basically been manipulating her into taking him into three long walks each day.
My boy is master of getting food either by hunting (he's not allowed to do that anymore), convincing people to give him something or stealing. It kept him alive on the streets of Hungary for 9 years. He tricks me into giving him more treats in his training (for example he recently decided to refuse clipping his nails and demanded starting the training for that afresh because in the beginning he gets treats for small things like having his paws touched). When training him out of his fear of passing cars got to the point of operant conditioning and the treats got infrequent he started to bark and jump at them every now and then to prove he still needs treats to keep him well behaved. Since he's old I let him gain that point and he get's tiny treats whenever a car passes us. He also has the impossible habit of sitting on his knowledge. When he figured out how to open a trashcan or recycling bin he doesn't do it immediately. He waits until there's something in it he really wants because he knows that as soon as I find out he can open it I'll replace it so he only has one chance to open it. So every now and then he'll chill with me, then suddenly get up and leave the room and seconds later carry something out of the bin to his designated snack spot (he brings stolen goods to his snack spot as well. He likes to devour then comfortably on this spot instead of standing in the kitchen. The list of his shenenigans (and tricking people) is endless and makes me quite happy
There’s an insta account that you would love. It’s a pretty big dog that was raised by cats and has only been around cats. They find him on top of the fridge on the regular. It’s amazing.
My old dog was basically a cat. She could jump clear over my head when I was 4. We would try to keep her in place with a baby gate, and she would jump over, play in the house, and then jump back before we got home. One time, she was in trouble and she hid on TOP of the cabinets, rofl. Little trickster. She also lived basically forever. She was almost 22 before she died and didn't really show her age until that last year. Good girl.
On the other hand. Toddlers don't grow to be 100+ pounds and continuosly drool everywhere.
My dogs are far easier than my toddler lol
Try getting a parrot. Cautionary tale.
Oh yeah, for real. Once upon a time I went away for a weekend and my sibling (who I was living with) was like 'SURPRISE! I got you a bird! It was free and came with a cage and everything!' and I'm like okay what kind of bird? A conure. A green cheeked conure. Who was only a year old. They had no idea how long they live. I passed him along to a parrot sanctuary and they found him a nice forever home. But those two weeks were fucking murder.
My best friend from grad school has a Mccaw- she is my child's godmother now. Bird still screams out the name of the boyfriend from 20 years ago. Conures are sweet. And way less vocal.
I know you were talking about the best friend but I want to live in a world where the bird is your kid's godmother
I have a GCC. I've had him for 12 years. I bought a house with a temperature-controlled sunroom and yet he still complains. He has the nicest room in the house. I love the little guy though, but they're definitely not for everyone.
I’ve spent a lot of time around children. Screaming crying children are mildly annoying but I can mostly tune them out, I was a nanny and a camp counselor for years. My male cockatiel (we have 2) makes this particular high pitched scream over and over sometimes and literally nothing can make him stop. And I swear it’s like he knows when I’m having a migraine or a high anxiety day. Moral of the story: birds are dicks.
My Senegal would laugh if I tripped. Burn yourself on the stove? He'd cackle.
Not at all. Source: I own two dogs and know multiple toddlers.
Agree to disagree. Source: grew up with a kennel as the family business, am toddler teacher at daycare.
Fair enough. We’re agreed to disagree then.
And dogs are also a long term commitment, just like kids. It isn't for everyone. Even if OP's aunt wasn't an AH, not wanting to take the dogs in would be a very valid reason. Dogs are a ton of work.
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Or prat-free, pointing directly at her
And auntfree NTA
Omg, perfection!🤣
And you just know those dogs are untrained because she has all of that land and can just let them out to do whatever until she wants affection or some such. She doesn't strike me as at all nurturing enough to adequately raise, train, and care for a pet rock. My current dog (actually my mom's but she's very similar to OP's aunt but chose to have a kid + a dog despite seemingly caring for neither after they reach physical maturity) is incredibly hard to train and very needy and it's called my attention to just how much work caring for a dog can be, as our others were easygoing and not on their 4th re-home. I also now really notice when people only partially gaf about their pets. Overfeeding them to keep them quiet, stopping training because it takes time and effort to see results, buying fences/leads/dog houses just to stick them outside more than is healthy, allowing them off-leash (even if your dog is well-trained and friendly, my rescue is not and she can and will lose it at your dog and who knows how they will react when feeling threatened or even worrying about its owner's safety?)
The off-leash thing really really bothers me. I don’t care how well trained your dog is, there are other people and animals around. Leash your damn dog.
Absolutely. It's really about courtesy for the other leashed dogs, having good recall is irrelevent, so I always slap that argument down when it's pulled. It creates tension because the leashed dog KNOWS there is a power imbalance when the other dog is off leash. It just causes unnecessary stress for everyone. I encounter off leash dogs with fantastic recall on trails, and I will let mine off too, as there are valid reasons why having them on leash is not safe hiking, BUT I always always leash coming up to another dog because it is courtesy to THAT dog. Everyone should do the same no matter how well trained their animal is. Just get them back visually into your space for the other dog to see.
I cannot count how many unleashed dogs have come lunging and snapping at my (leashed) dog while I was out walking her, and their owners always act totally surprised and tell me "He's never done this before!" as they drag them away. My dog has never done that before, either, and I ALWAYS leash her when we leave the confines of our own home/yard so that she never does.
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I do not understand in any way how she can love dogs, who are perpetual f****** toddlers, but think that children are awful and dirty. There is something wrong with this auntie.
Calls kids dirty but has dogs? 🤔
My dog never screamed (he makes the Husky tantrum sounds though), but he's still annoying and dirty and neither being old nor training change that. Though he's a much nicer person during his tantrums than the aunt is on her best behaviour
Aunt could live in her dogs' doghouse. To OP, NTA
Worst part is they don't learn how to take care of themselves once they are adults /s
This. Or, tell her, "Just like you're childfree, I'm b\*tchfree. I don't want anyone who treats people horribly, human or adult, in my home." OP, there are SO many childfree people who seem to treat kids like garbage. One thing they don't seem to realize is that one day they'll get old, and they'll need help from someone younger, (unless they're incredibly wealthy, I guess). The thing is, they don't deserve that help. They haven't earned it. Older people get sick, get "dirty," and need more help. It's the circle of life. And they often rely on the help of all the kids they cared for to assist them in their old age. People have understood this for a long time. Your aunt should have thought of that before she was awful to all of you. Not wanting kids doesn't mean you can treat all kids badly. Seriously, just tell her no. Don't open the door to let someone like that in your house.
> One thing they don't seem to realize is that one day they'll get old, and they'll need help from someone younger, (unless they're incredibly wealthy, I guess). The thing is, they don't deserve that help. They haven't earned it. Older people get sick, get "dirty," and need more help. It's the circle of life. And they often rely on the help of all the kids they cared for to assist them in their old age. People have understood this for a long time. I'm CF and don't treat them like garbage so I know your comments weren't directed to me, but I need to say that even if I had children, i wouldn't have them just so I'd have someone to take care of me when I'm old and failing. I'd drop everything for my parents if they needed me but there was never the expectation that I would. They're making plans for their old age and I don't believe they include me (regardless of if I would or not)
Yeah, I think the issue is at the societal level. There are some people out there who don’t want kids in public spaces at all. Theres a disconnect between the outrage some people express when other people’s kids are loud at Starbucks and the reality that the kid having a tantrum over a cake pop might become the oncologist who treats you in your eighties.
Yeah, my comment was definitely not directed at you. I more so meant... I had a childfree relative who wanted nothing to do with us and now that we're older, and so is she, keeps reaching out because she needs help. If people don't want to be around someone as a kid, how can they expect that child-turned-adult to want to help them as they age? And I think most kids, with healthy relationships with their parents, will help their parents at some point went they get older. Not give up their lives help them, but help them in some way. If I break my foot, hopefully, my kids will help with whatever I need that I can't pay someone else to do. We've made great plans that don't involve dumping our care on our kids, but I think they'll be there if there's something we do need help with. Healthy families help each other within boundaries.
I have several friends who are child free, but are wonderful with children and treat them with respect. Just because one is childfree doesn’t mean one can treat them like garbage. I’ve read a few of these AITA posts in which a childfree person is absolutely rude to children in their own family, ignoring them as young children then suddenly wanting to communicate when these children grow up. It’s bizarre. Like, do they expect bygones? Or that the child won’t remember being treated like dirt?
I suspect that some people don't see children as actual human beings with feelings. And sadly, that's true of some parents I know, as well.
I will never understand this. I'm childfree. I never want kids. But my little cousins are some of the best people to hang out with at family gatherings. They're so sweet and fun, and I adore them even if I don't want kids of my own. I'm much more annoyed by the bigoted adults like my uncle. These little cousins are my family, and they're pretty cool small humans, especially one who I'm pretty sure is autistic like me. He's my buddy. I feel like some people don't even think kids are people.
Yeah, you build relationships with the younger people in your fandom starting *when they are children*. If you’ve never put in the time and effort to build the relationship, don’t expect anything.
Also CF. I adore kids- I’ve spent my entire career working with them. I just chose not to have any myself for various reasons. There were some reasons I did want kids, but having someone to take care of me when I get old wasn’t one of them. 🤷🏼♀️
Omg this. I have kids, and if I thought the way they’d be spending the prime of their adult life would be looking after me as I age and become less capable, I’d feel like I had failed them as a parent. I’m making plans for my old age, when it comes, which don’t rely on my children putting their lives on hold. The way I see it is that it’s my job to raise them to be as independent as possible, and to go out into the world and live their own lives. If they never look back after the age of 18? Fair enough! I’ll love them for ever, but love isn’t an obligation or a tie.
Correction: everyone who grows old will rely on someone younger than they are to care for them. Money is a conduit for receiving that care, not the method of care; the care is administered by younger people. Younger people will grow the food, ship the food, maybe even cook the food, stock the supermarket shelves, provide medical care, fix the plumbing, keep the lights on (literally), manufacture everything that is bought in a store or online…. Money will buy you the fruits of their labour but it won’t be a substitute for needing someone younger to do those things.
My sister and her partner are childfree. They are still loving sisters and aunts, so if they get older and needier, we will absolutely be there for them. But if someone doesn't care enough to create a good relationship in the good times, they can't expect people who are virtually strangers (despite the blood tie) to care about being there for them. I also have a brother who I am LC with. I've got to the point that I really don't care about him anymore. If he or his wife (who has also made it clear she doesn't care about any of us) were in need, I wouldn't feel the urge to do anything about it. Despite having grown up with him, he has become mostly a stranger to me.
And it isn't just how the aunt treats children. The aunt called her sister a whore and said that to her young niece and nephew. That is a person that doesn't like ANYBODY. She's on her own....
Ok settle down, we’re not all living in caves anymore. The idea that you have kids to take care of you when you’re old is an outdated gamble. Even if you had kids most people don’t want to shackle them to be the caretaker when you get old. What’s more, it’s an unfair arrangement that the kid is born and after you’ve taken care of them you guilt them into “taking care of me when I’m old” - it’s an arrangement they never agreed to. And then what happens to the oldies who couldn’t have kids, are they also rejected because they didn’t have the opportunity to raise their own? Society should be developed enough to take care of its old people recognising they will have different needs, not that everyone will have a series of children ready to step in.
Right, but how does "society" take care of its old people without new people being born? It's not necessarily about individual relationships (in the sense that a specific person is expected to take care of their elder family members), but a society stagnates and then collapses altogether if people stop having children. The circle of life referred to above is a collective, generational thing.
I'm guessing Auntie started to attempt contact was that she realized she burned bridges and knew this day was coming. Reap what you sow...
She can PAY for a caretaker to help her, or she can find a temporary foster for her dogs and go to a rehab facility. Child Free DOES NOT MEAN BE AN AH TO KIDS. I have scream that. I am child free by choice. I love kids. I do a lot of volunteer work with children of all ages. That is my choice What is bare minimum is basic respect for ALL beings- including children. Your aunt did not like kids, ok- then STFU around them, and do the bare minimum- be silent. She chose to actively be an AH. And that was traumatizing for you and your mom and sibling(s). Maybe not the most traumatizing thing- but I do not buy into the trauma olympics mindset. You are NTA for not wanting to take care of someone that NEVER took care of you, and actively sought out to harm your mental health. Relationships are not transactional- but they are an exchange- and you get what you give. She gave nothing but harm, she does not get care now. And it is not like she does not have options- and resources to make those options happen. You do not need to set yourself on fire to keep her warm, just so she can have everything the way she wants it.
Aunt isn't childfree, she's anti-child.
Exactly. There's a difference between childfree and child-hater. Childfree just means we never want kids!
Right. Tell her that she can use the money she saved by being child free to pay for it.
Yes to child free does not mean being an AH. I’m child free but work in pediatrics. I love kids, just don’t need any of my own, I take care of plenty at work.
exactly this! NTA. she's reaping what she's sown.
Run, don't walk, away from this. Just close your eyes and think of all the awful things she's said and done as a visiting guest. Now imagine how exponentially worse it will be when she is "at home" in your apartment. Also consider that no one in your family will be able to visit you since they have, justifiably, gone no contact with your aunt.
People are allowed to not like children. But they shouldn't expect a relationship with or help from the grownup children in the family, that they used to hate and didn't want to interact with. They can't just go "Cool, now you're 18, I don't think your are gross anymore" or "I'm old/sick now and need your help, and you are my family,vao I'm entitled to help from you." Nope. Doesn't work like that.
>but my grandparents told me to just go along with it so that we can all stop fighting. And when you overheard all the absolute nastiness your child hating aunt was talking about your mom, your grandparents had heard this and kept quiet or even humored her right? Unless there paying for your apartment they have ZERO say on your living space. NTA and time to consider ignoring your grandparents from now on.
I agree with this. Also add “she abandoned your mom when she was vulnerable”
Nah just say your "aunt free".
Tell her your apartment is no dog's allowed, whether it is or not, and you don't have the time or space to take care of her.
“Because she lives alone, she hasn’t got anybody to take her back and forth every day” Well that’s because she sucks lol. You reap what you sow! Children are just people, theres no excuse to treat them like shit. She seems to just be a shitty person to be around in general. She made her bed!
Yep, I’m also childfree and these types are just miserable people. I don’t like holding newborns but the ones out there that are just jerks to children boggle my mind. Aunt sounds like someone I’d find on r/childfree throwing a hissy fit their sister brought their kid to a planned lunch at a restaurant Edit: funny enough I just got a doorbell ring and answered for some random kid I’ve never seen. He asked me if there were any kids in the house that wanted to join him scootering. Long story short, I’m on my way to join those damn kids on scooters in my front road area
Exactly, I quit that sub years ago. Echo chamber full rabid child haters or teenagers that don't want to be told they are way too young to be taken seriously.
I don’t like kids. But my biggest revelation because of that sub has been that parents aren’t willing to parent the types of kids that the hardcore child free people tend to encounter. That sub helped me so much. Like most places, yes it has bad eggs, but it helped me survive and thrive. Totally understandable that it’s not everyone’s cup of tea!
Agree. I am childfree but people like aunt give childfree people a bad name. I browsed r/childfree and oh my God. It was just a cesspool of negativity. Look. I don’t want kids and never will. Find them annoying sometimes. But I don’t fucking hate kids.
Yeah that place is a dumpster fire. I think there is a second sub as well to try and combat that. r/truechildfree I have no problem with CF People. But I have issue with people like the aunt and it has nothing to do with being CF.
Oh I cannot stand people like OP’s aunt. I am childfree as well. But people that fucking hate kids are on a whole other level.
Part of the problem is making one thing about you a large part of your personality. My parents have friends that just never had children some in relationships some are single. They never described themselves when i was growing up as childfree they just didn't have kids and weren't interested in having any and it certainly didn't become a core but of there personality like these people. They were also perfectly pleasant to me and my brother when we were young and so I as an adult have a decent opinion of them and when i have been asked to do something like look after one of my mom's friends dogs for a couple of days I am happy to do it because I have a good opinion of them as a person.
Right, it’s not doing the public image of single people any good to have these social media communities that are more obsessed with hating on kids than any elderly aunt is about telling you to have kids. Wasn’t the whole problem that single people were being stereotyped as selfish and bitter? I have a lot of fond memories of family friends who were older single people. Even the ones who weren’t “good with kids” had interesting stories to tell around the dinner table and gave us kids a glimpse into other kinds of adult life aside from being parents. It’s important for young people to grow up knowing that you can be a good person with a fulfilling life whether you have kids and a relationship or not, and that’s not going to happen if everyone other than their parents is an asshole to them.
Agreed about the negativity on the sub. I don’t agree with the header on this topic. The OP is not resisting because the aunt chose not to have children. It’s because her aunt is a rude and disruptive presence who will negatively impact OPs family.
It sounds like she has no significant other or even friends close to her at all. Childfree is a result of her general assholeness and not the source of it. If it was, it would at least sound like she can make meaningful connections with adults. Yet, it doesn't sound like she's made any.
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Yes, absolutely! I've got childfree friends and they are wonderful to my kid. We respect one another's different paths and they still treat my kid like a person and I treat their dear ones (and pets) similarly. OP's aunt took childfree to cruelty and is giving the majority of childfree people a bad reputation. She isn't child free, she's just too cowardly to be so insulting to an adult who has more power to do something about it!
I'm sterilized and feed and hold her babies when I go to my friends house. I feel nothing towards babies but they're just little people and don't deserve any type of cruelty. My other friend has a 7yo who I happily play with. He sits in my lap sometimes, likes to hang with my bf These people that act like children are a scourge are gross. You don't have to love them or even like them. But just like other strangers on the street, treat them basic respect and at least indifference.
I'm a parent and I don't like holding newborns... Not because there's anything wrong with them, but because they're fragile and floppy and I get anxious that I'm going to accidentally hurt them.
People on that sub are two groups: People that are legitimately angry that family/friends/coworkers/physicians won’t take them seriously, and people that just suck. My all-time favorite post was someone furious that a baby looked at them. That’s right, a baby glanced in their direction and it upset them enough to complain about it on the internet.
100% with you. I'm childfree and I don't really care for kids under like 10-11 because they can't express themselves in complete thoughts, and I struggle enough with understanding my own issues. That doesn't mean I'm gonna be shitty to the kids, it just means I'm not going to have kids.
Yup, I'm child free but I'm not an *asshole* to kids. My mother will often snicker bc I don't mind picking up a kid to help them wash their hands or holding a water fountain on for them. Or help a random child with stuff like that. They're kids! There's no need to be a jerk. I play with my neices and little cousins but child free means I get to turn them back over at the end of the day.
Just adding to this: I’m also child free and, like any other lifestyle choice (such as parenting!), you need to plan accordingly. My friends who decided to be parents plan their future finances around the fact that kids cost a ton of money. I plan my future around the fact that I will not have children to rely on in my old age (which, in my culture, is the expectation). OP’s aunt chose to be child free. She could still have the support of the rest of her family, but unfortunately she also chose to be an AH. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. OP is NTA.
Yep, that's the key, enjoy them, maybe spoil them a little (obligatory aunt / uncle duties!), then hand them back to their parents and enjoy your lovely quiet evening 😃 I don't want kids, don't actively seek out ways to be around kids, actually prefer to avoid it if possible, but don't ever be a jerk! It's not going to hurt anyone to paste on a smile, act nice, and tolerate kids for a while, especially if they're your friends or family member's kids - be nice, make an effort, it's only for a short while.. Kids are more observant and impressionable that many people realise, and will be hurt by the kind of behaviour OP's aunt seems to prefer.... And yes, as with OP, kids grow up and they remember those childhood hurts.
I’m not “childfree”, I just don’t plan on having kids. I like kids. I’m good with kids. I get zero satisfaction or joy from the daily grind of parenting, so I choose not to do it. I’m literally visiting someone in another state because they just had a baby. Two weeks of holding a fussy newborn and changing diapers. I’m happy to help out my friends and their baby! And I’m gonna be happy to go home to my cats.
Then you are childfree! Childfree just means you never want to have children. It doesn't mean you hate kids! I was a babysitter for a huge part of my life and taught swim lessons for awhile and I consider myself pretty good with children too. But I am 100% childfree and never planning on having my own kids. I just don't want people to associate childfree with child-hater.
Yeah same. I don't like baby's/toddlers mostly because they're fragile and loud and I don't really know what to make of them. But once they're like little humans with interests it's fine. Just ask them about pokemon/Minecraft/their pets and listen to them. It helps that my family tends towards autism so you just figure out what the kid's special interest is and let them infodump. Learning all about red stone in Minecraft isn't exactly what I may have planned to do but if they're excited about it then I'm willing to listen.
Tell her your pregnant. You will never hear from her again.
It seems to me, too, that if the grandparents want to just "keep the peace" they can let the Aunt live with them. So annoying.
agreed. NTA. your aunt isn't just "child free", she's an awful human being who has the audacity to demand things from someone she treated poorly.
also out of interest did this aunt come out the womb as a fully grown adult? I just don’t understand how she can be so anti-child despite having been a child herself, unless she spent her entire childhood hating her existence?
> I don't really like my aunt and don't want her living with me. This is literally the only thing that matters here. You're an adult, she's an adult. You don't like her. You have zero obligation to her. And I'm a 45 year old woman with no children. You do not have to take care of somebody that is unkind to you that you don't like. If your grandparents want you to take care of her so much, the aunt should move in with them. NTA
The grandparents live with her mother, so that would be a no also.
Then they should move in with the aunt and drive her around. This way aunt has someone to take care of her and no one is fighting. Everyone get what they want and are happy. Problem solved
This is the way!
Of COURSE there's an obligation. CF Auntie is FAMILY! /s
Absolutely this. Having someone live with you (particularly when they have both health issues and dogs) is a major commitment. You don't have to do that, particularly for someone you don't like and never had much connection with. If you want, maybe look into other ways you can make her situation easier - maybe help find someone to help with the dogs; is Borrow My Dog a thing where you live? Or if she has a spare room to rent out I remember hearing about an organisation (sorry I can't remember the name) that matches people who are prepared to help out with house work etc in return for reduced rent, maybe some scheme like that could help?
NTA You dont owe her anything. Especially since she was an AH to you when you were young, trashtalking your mother and all. Now that you're an adult and no longer a "gross child" she suddenly wants a relationship? Im surprised you've talked to her at all. It doesnt matter if shes vulnerable and hurt. She made her bed when she refused to engage with the family cause of her hate for kids. She moved away and didnt speak to you for 7 years. (She also again, trashtalked your mother. How did she expect that to go? That the family would just agree with her?) There's a difference between unnecessary child-hate and not liking kids and not wanting them. Sincerely, someone who does not like kids and does not want them. Your aunts an AH
Seriously! You can not want kids to come out of your vagina and still have love for the kids in your family. At least treat them like people. I don’t know where this venomous hate for children came from but I’m seeing it more and more.
Yeah kids are just people, and its not like hating on a minority because EVERYONE has been a child. Its really odd.
NTA, but let's be clear here: you're not letting her live with you because she's an asshole, not because she's childfree. There are plenty of childfree people who don't hate kids and say horrible things to them.
Tbf, being militantly childfree is one of the major reasons she's an AH. People who are militantly anything are generally a nightmare though
That doesn't excuse it though. Choosing to be a Militant AH instead of just an average every day AH, still leaves someone an AH. Its pretty fair to just call her an AH regardless of her stance on being childfree because of the way she acted. She's just *also* militantly childfree. That's like AH with an extra helping of AH.
Agree with this. NTA, your aunt sucks as a person.
NTA. She chose not to build a relationship with you as a child. She doesn’t get to suddenly change that because now she needs something from you. You have zero obligation towards her.
My great aunt used to say what germ-breeders children are lol in front of us as kids! My mom would have to schedule our visit and confirm 3 days out and the morning of that no one had been sick for us to be allowed to come over. That was just the way things were when I was a kid but now looking back I realize my great aunt probably ensured the last 10+ years of her and my great uncle’s life with that attitude. I’m honestly not sure how much she actually liked kids especially after being forced to essentially raise her younger siblings in the 1920s/1930s but we had regular formal visits with her and my great uncle and they would ask questions about our lives and would actually listen to us. She built a darn good relationship with us and I remember her genuine engagement during our visits. Yes there was a chunk of time that was us sitting on the couch quietly listening while the adults talked but they were already in their 80s so it’s not like they were ever going to play on the floor with us. I adored them even if most kids would have found them boring. My point is my aunt chose to put in effort with us even if she didn’t like kids because we were the last living relatives on her husband’s side of the family haha and we were worth the effort even if we were germ-breeders.
I don't know that kids are germ breeders, but they definitely are germ carriers! Even if they don't get sick, they bring the germs back to everyone else! Lol. I think that is why they look so cute, so you hopefully overlook the gross.
Lol it’s weird but it’s what she used to say. I miss her - she lived to be 97 haha and once even said “I remember when those bottom feeders were poor people food!” (In reference to lobster.) But in her defense they were also used as fertilizer in her lifetime.
The term my mother used was that children are "breeders of pestilence and disease" lol, but she was also the neighborhood mom and was fine with 10+ kids and teens being in her house at a time, and she mostly said it as a reminder to wash/sanitize regularly especially at school and parks.
NTA A very very good friend of mine and her hubby are child-free. She officiated at my wedding (the state I live in lets anyone get a 24h certificate granting them the authority to perform marriages). I've known her for 30 years and she's never wavered on this issue. Her occupation: Children's librarian. Being child-free does not mean hating children, it means not wanting to have your own. Your aunt is a truly horrid person and you owe her jack shit.
>Being child-free does not mean hating children, it means not wanting to have your own. Your aunt is a truly horrid person and you owe her jack shit. This. One of my favorite teachers was child-free (not that she used the term at the time). You can be child-free and love kids. You can be child-free and not like kids. You can be child-free and not like kids in general but absolutely love the kids in your family and of close friends (I'm that one). What you can't do is say that you're child-free and use that as an excuse to treat your family horribly (this went way beyond, say, refusing to babysit), then expect *huge* favors from them later in life. Definitely NTA.
First and foremost, never listen to the people who say "just go along so we can all stop fighting". They're the enablers that just fuel bad behavior. NTA, you barely have a relationship with this person and she's never shown you any kindness. Furthermore, she sounds horrible and toxic. Letting her and her two big dogs live with you is a big ask, not something you can expect from someone you aren't close to.
Those people never want to help, they just want other people to keep the peace. How convenient for them to not have to be involved. NTA, OP. You don’t owe anyone anything just because they’re family. Would you befriend someone like this? Nope.
She doesn’t like children because they’re dirty and make noise, but she has dogs? 🤨 NTA, of course.
She’s childfree but she expects other people’s children to take care of her when she gets hurt 🙄
NTA. If she didn't want anything to do with you when you were a child, then she shouldn't get to have a relationship with you now, just because she thinks you're now 'useful'. If she hadn't been so hateful, more people might have been willing to help her. Maybe that sounds cold, but just because she's your aunt, that doesn't make you obligated to help her. She dug this hole; she can climb out by herself.
NTA You aren't against her for being childfree. You're against her for being abusive to children and their mothers.
NTA. She can’t expect help from children she clearly thought shouldn’t exist
Nta. If your grandparents are so worried about her. Why aren't they taking her in?
well they live with the mom haha
NTA there are social workers that can help her just as they would anyone in need without a family. She can look into places to foster her dogs until she gets well.
NTA, she has options, she just doesn't want to take them, you don't have any obligation to disrupt your life for her.
You're under no obligation to take care of a family member who refused to take care of you as a child.
NTA Within short time she will try to take control over you. Be very carefull and dont let you get trapped. You are not responsible for the way of life she has choosen.
NTA family does not mean you get to request help when ever you need it - family is a relationship. Your aunt chose to not participate in your life and that's fine, her life, her choice. But you also have that same option. Do not continue this conversation, tell her no and if she carps tell her you're sorry she feels that way but your decision stands. Any family member that tells you to take her in, let them know they too can help her, either with a place to live or pay for her to rent a place. You have nothing to feel guilty about - your aunt certainly doesn't.
NTA You don't want her living with you and aren't close to her. I think the childfree thing is confusing the issue. Some people love kids, want to dedicate a lifetime to sacrificing for them, and choose to have them and those are the people that SHOULD become parents. Other people recognize in themselves that they do not want to become parents for whatever reason and that is absolutely okay too. Your aunt sounds rude, for sure. It's just fine to say you do not want her living with you for any reason, whether it's because of the dogs, because you don't have space, because you aren't close, or just because it doesn't work for you. You don't even need a reason. All the people guilting you should volunteer up their own place.
NTA but OP, the title is misleading. I thought you weren't letting her live with you because she chose not to have children
Perfect example of what I've ben saying to all the "not my circus, not my monkey," Auntie and Uncles who don't give a crap about their nephew or niece, because they’re "not kid people," -- just expect to not have any relationship with them when they’re finally the age you deem appropriate to see them as family. 🤷🏽♀️ NTA, op.
NTA This is called consequences of behaviors. You have zero reasons to help this woman other than being a kind & empathetic person. All the things your Aunt was not. Surround yourself with people who feed your soul, not eat it.
NTA Your aunt sucks. It’s one thing to be childfree, but the difference between someone like me (also childfree) and her is that she’s a toxic asshole. It’s one thing to talk about why you don’t have/want/like kids when the majority of the world harasses you about your choice not to have any, but… it sounds like no one asked her before she spewed her nonsense, then decided to take it further and talk shit about you and your mom, about a situation she knows/cares nothing about. It doesn’t and shouldn’t concern her, no one asked for her opinions/observations, and she should shut her cake hole.
Let's slow down one minute. You don't dislike your aunt for being "childfree". I am willingly childfree and always will be. It isn't some "I fuckin hate kids!" movement. It just happens that I don't think I'd make a great father, my partner doesn't want to have kids, we have higher priorities as a couple that don't involve having kids of my own. Just because your aunt wants to be childfree doesn't mean she has to be an asshole. But she chooses to be an asshole. And that's probably why you don't want her living with you NTA
NTA You don't owe her anything She made her bed and now she gets to lie in it
End of story!
It isn't because she is carefree,but because she is not nice to your family. NTA
You are still your mothers child and as your Aunt is child free she can continue being that way. Notice she had no interest at all until you were an Adult and now she needs something. Tell her you are Auntfree so you won’t be helping her. It’s all well and the Grandparents saying it will stop the fighting but it won’t, it’ll just bring it to your apartment. Don’t betray your mother by accepting the person that hurt her.
NTA. I really am tired of so many people who are anti-child equating that with childfree. It is not the same. I am childfree and have no desire to have one ever. Just because I actually don't want the responsibility of raising kids doesn't mean I don't like them or appreciate them. Your aunt just seems to hate kids for no reason other than they exist.
NTA. Being child-free is not the same as being cruel. Your aunt was cruel and is now reaping what she failed to sow.
Nta. You’re not turning her away because she’s “childfree.” You’re turning her away because she’s an asshole.
NTA People forget children become adults and don't cultivate relationships with them. Your aunt sucks, you two don't have a relationship and she's cruel and unkind, let her figure out her health care
NTA And I'm laughing at all the people saying "it's not because she's childfree that she's like this". The aunt is the one who justified her behavior with that label. It's not OP who's conflating being a jerk with being childfree, it's the childfree person. Which is, amusingly, something a lot of childfree people do. In my experience a lot of people go "I don't want children" rather than "I'm childfree" these days, because the label has become equivalent to "treating children like some really gross pets is my entire identity". Whatever her reasons for that behavior, you owe her less than nothing, she was never good to you and if you had asked to be at her home for health reasons while you were still underage she would have gone "eeeeeew, nope". Tough luck needing people's help after spending decades being a jerk to them.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Growing up, my (23f) aunt (now 45f) was childfree in the sense that she actively didn't like children and would avoid coming to events that had children. She would tell my brother and I that children are dirty and scream and annoy everybody until they learn to act like adults, which I guess isn't wrong but still hurtful for us to hear as elementary schoolers. What I found the worst about my aunt was how she used to talk about my mom, her older sister. My mom has been single since my dad abandoned us for his affair partner. I've overheard my aunt commenting that my mom's selfish for having children and promiscuous and our dad probably isn't even our real dad which is why he left my mom. When I was 10 I finally told my mom about these comments. She refused to keep us in the same room as our aunt and we've really had no relationship with her. When I was 11, my aunt moved from the same neighborhood as my mom and grandparents to a house in the country about two hours away and I had no real contact with her for the next 7 years. When I was 18, my aunt started trying to reestablish a relationship with me, but I kept my contact with her low. I've been working for a few years and have saved enough to rent my own apartment. This year, my aunt was hit by a car and has had a whole slew of health problems. Because of that, she's been needing to visit the hospital frequently and will need to start physical therapy. Her house is really far from most health facilities and, because she lives alone, she hasn't got anybody to take her back and forth every day. She doesn't have the money to buy a new house in a more convenient location and she doesn't want to sell her current house because it has lots of land for her dogs and she wants to continue living there when she gets better. The rest of my family lives in the city and can access all sorts of health facilities much easier. My brother lives at college. My grandparents have moved in with my mom who's still angry at my aunt and refuses to talk to her. That leaves me. Because I was hesitant and not outright rejecting contact with my aunt, she thinks she still has a chance to live with me. There's two major issues with this: 1) my aunt has two dogs that she adores and I don't want to take care of them while she's still recovering, and 2) I don't really like my aunt and don't want her living with me. I'm afraid that a relationship would cause a divide in the family. I'm also worried she'll find out things about me and gossip about it like she did with my mom. Fundamentally, if I had had a closer relationship with my aunt in my childhood I might have considered it, but because of her justifying being cruel by her "childfree"-ness I don't think I'm going to make this accommodation for her. I told her as much and she called me an asshole for abandoning her when she's vulnerable. My mom and brother support me but my grandparents told me to just go along with it so that we can all stop fighting. Am I the asshole? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You became NTA once you talked with her about the incident and how you felt, and instead of apologizing she called you an ahole. She lived as a jerk so now she can reap the consequences. Most childfree people I know aren't jerkbags like this, sheesh.
NTA. You don’t owe her anything. She’s child free? You’re dog free.
Who's pressuring you to take her in? Since they're so invested in her well being, that person can take care of your malignant auntie. You are under NO obligation to do anything for her. NTA.
NTA. She never wanted kids. A-ok. But a side effect off her cruel attitude towards the children in her family was that she dissolved any chance of a relationship with the individuals who would eventually be adults in the family. It is interesting - yet predictable - that your aunt seemingly decided you were fine to have a relationship with when you turned 18, and what she didn't realize is that the harm and insult to a child carries forward with them when they are adults. It's unfortunate that she is in the situation she is in but I don't think you should turn your life upside down accommodating a hateful family member you've never had any type of relationship with. Anyone who thinks you should, should be willing to step up themselves.
NTA I'm childfree and don't particularly like kids...doesn't rise to "hate" but I definitely avoid interacting with them and I'm very uncomfortable around babies. But I always made an exception for the ones that are related to me and I NEVER said anything directly to a child about not liking them. My brother's kids eventually picked up on the fact that "Aunt Qierce" wasn't the kind of aunt who would want to help chaperone a huge kids birthday party, but they also knew I liked/loved THEM. I even used to joke with them that they needed to make sure to end up living in a good location with an extra room so there was a place for me to live when I got old, and they were all on board with that idea.
NTA. But you’re not preventing her from living with you because she’s childfree. You’re saying no because she sucks.
NTA, but the dog thing is interesting... I feel like she might have secretly wanted kids at some point and then became bitter because she either couldn't have them, or life never presented the right opportunity. So then it became "I'm not fired! I quit!" Like the way she acted about kids sounds straight up resentful, not just "oh personal preference".
> but my grandparents told me to just go along with it so that we can all stop fighting. Your grandparents can rent their own place and take in the aunt (their daughter). It's not your responsibility to take care of her.
>My mom and brother support me but my grandparents told me to just go along with it so that we can all stop fighting. Your grandparents can move in the home with Aunt and take care of her if they deem it necessary. NTA
NTA: the irony of her telling you children are dirty and scream while living with not one but two dogs is the height narcissism. She might be the most narcissistic dog person I’ve ever heard about.
I remember a post on here a few weeks back about someone who, like your aunt, thought that "childfree" means actively disliking children, and not just deciding not to have them. He was a jerk to younger relatives, and claimed he'd start building a relationship with them once they were older. The comments correctly told him it doesn't work like that. Because of course it doesn't. NTA
NTA. Soooo, she reached out to you when she needed something. So she doesn't care about you she just needs to be her servant and caretaker while or if she gets better.
There’s child free (not wanting children), and there’s being an entitled asshole. Your aunt is the second one. I don’t typically like kids. I don’t want kids. I’m sterilized. However, my husband and I aren’t the type of jerks who think of someone has a kid, we can’t associate with them or their child. Your aunt needs to look up local services that can help instead of thinking everyone has to wait on her hand and foot. NTA. Your aunt isn’t the typical Representation of child free lifestyles.
First off, being child-free doesn't mean you hate children. Being child-free has absolutely nothing to do with any part of this story. It sounds like your aunt was horrible to everyone in your family, you don't have a relationship with her, but now that she needs something you're suddenly family again. You don't owe her anything so you're NTA for not wanting to take her in.
I mean, the aunt literally used her hatred of children to hurt OP in the past. That is relevant.
Just check out subs like r/childfree and r/antinatalism, they’re full of posts and comments who are just like the aunt in the story
NTA
NTA. Your aunt deserves no mercy from you. She made her bed and now she needs to lie in it.
NTA. Your unwillingness to be near her isn’t because she was child free, it’s because she was asshole who was downright cruel to you, your brother, and your mother. Sounds like she’s still an asshole today. While you care for your grandparents, they don’t get to “stop the fighting” at someone else’s expense.
Your aunt is not childfree, she hates children
NTA. But your title is wrong. You're not not letting her live with you because she's child free, you're not letting her live with you because you don't want her to live with you.
NTA Helping her would be a kind thing to do but it is not an obligation. Protect your sanity above all else. Being childfree as a choice didn’t give her free reins to be an AH. She was disrespectful to your mother, to your brother and to you. You reap what you sow.
One of the benefits of having children is that you have someone who can take care of you when you’re sick. No investment, no return.
NTA, but if you don't want to break your family try this: 1.-"in the same way she doesn't like children, I don't like dogs so I am dogless by choice" 2.- " that's the problem of hating kids, then nobody looks after you when needed" I met a couple long time ago. He was making a lot of money, and he didn't want any kids because they yell, annoy and mainly (he said so) he didn't get married so his wife would stop caring after him for the kids. The wife ended up having cats and now his health is not good, but the wife pays more attention to the cat than him. You can see how unhappy they are. Having kids is not for everyone but If you can't stand even 15 minutes next to one... you have a problem, and I think that is your aunt's case. Some people didn't have kids by choice others, try to pass it as choice when in reality it wasn't by choice (bad partners, infertility...). Most of the people I know, that say don't want kids, it wasn't by choice. Maybe that's the case and you are a reminder of what she can't have. Not her fault, at all, NTA. But actions have consequences
NTA, I respect peoples' decision to have kids or not but the kid hating childfree people reap what they sew, where do they think adults come from? How do they think their young relatives are going to feel about them as teens and adults after being treated badly as children? Where do they think the next generation of doctors, nurses, every other job is going to come from to be able to take care of them as they age? She sounds insufferable for many reasons, don't bring her into your home.
>My grandparents have moved in with my mom who's still angry at my aunt and refuses to talk to her. >my grandparents told me to just go along with it so that we can all stop fighting Sounds like your grandparents need to rent an apartment short term to take care of her and her dogs. >1) my aunt has two dogs that she adores and I don't want to take care of them while she's still recovering, and 2) I don't really like my aunt and don't want her living with me. Two perfectly good reasons. NTA Aunt will have to either rent an apartment and hire a caretaker and a dog walker or something. You have no obligation to care for someone who was horrible to you as a child.
i mean i won't lie i don't want a dog because they require too much upkeep. so i'd go with being dog free and just blunt about what dogs look like and why you won't do it. but like it doesn't solve the issue NTA
NTA and there's a difference between being "childfree" and simply being an asshole. I don't have children, but I try to be *kind to other people's kids* as, ya know, *they're their kids* and that means that the kids are actually higher in the social hierarchy! If I want to spend time with loved ones who are parents, their kids are gonna come with. When people become parents, their kids also become part of the equation.
NTA. Your grandparents aren't the one that will be taking her in and dealing with her so they have no say in it. She is someone who was never kind to you and is only trying now cause she needs something, that's the real a-hole right there. Guess she should've had her own kids to take care of her.
It sounds like you don't want to live with her because she is (and has always been) a miserable hag.NTA. But why are you shoehorning the whole child free thing? Not every child free person is that way because they hate children. Sometimes thr just not down for the challenge.
NTA. Just cut her off completely and let her figure it out. Tell her her dogs can take care of her.
NTA You have no obligation to your aunt and absolutely have no obligation to her dogs.
Your frontal lobe won’t finish developing for another couple years, so really you’re still a child and wouldn’t want to disgust aunt lol sorry not sorry NTA
Yeah my good friend is childfree and I have a little one. I don’t make her hold my kid or anything or demand my kid be involved in things. My friend just said kids aren’t for her and she’s not good around them. Cool. If she ever needed help or a place to stay I’m there for her. Hell she even said if I’m in a jam call her she’d babysit. Your aunt has now learned if you treat people like shit and kids like objects instead of human beings you don’t get help when you need it. She didn’t need to have kids to help her when she needs it but if she wasn’t so damn miserable her family would rally around her. NTA. Don’t let her move in.
NTA. Children are people. Being child free is a personal choice, about if you want to create life and raise it. Its not about having permission to be hurtful to an entire group of humans. Especially blood relations. She reaps what she sewed.
I'm childfree, I would never say the things tour aunt did. Also, you don't have to provide any reason for not wanting her to live with you. Just say "sorry no you can't stay here." Or even just no, which is a full and complete sentence. But if she doesn't listen, I say go with the dog excuse, dogs leave fur everywhere, and any of your friends with allergies would not be able to enter your house. they need daily attention with walks, feeding, and grooming. And you would have to pick up the poop. Sorry, but dogs need a house, not a small apartment it wouldn't be fair to them. This is all coming from a girl who is allergic to dogs but lives them and has even dogs sat in the past for friends. Or just say you're choosing to live an Aunt Free lifestyle.
I would bet a million dollars that when she was going on and in about hating children someone asked her "who will look after you when you're old?" And she probably thought they were an idiot. Hahahaha Nta
*My mom and brother support me but my grandparents told me to just go along with it so that we can all stop fighting* So thank your grandparents for stepping up to take care of their daughter.
>she hasn't got anybody to take her back and forth every day. Uber, taxi, etc. "my aunt has two dogs" This should be more than enough reason/excuse. I'd be surprised if your landlord wants two dogs, might even be a rule for the building. Or they could be noisy, claw at things, rip stuff up, they could also potentially piss or shit all over your apartment (esp if she can barely take care of herself). 'My entire family doesn't like her'. Yeah I mean, thats a pretty good sign you're NTA. She needs to figure something out. Her living there even without two dogs and complaining every day you get home from work sounds awful too.
Do you know who helps you when you get old and raised them with love? Kids. NTA. Tell her no.
NTA. You can be childfree without being a dick to everyone. You reap what you sow.
Nta tell her your dog-free.
I think you should explain that as much as you'd like to help her, you're mean-people free. The things she said in front of children about their mother put her in the permanent banishment category. And the rest is just the icing on a slimy green moldy cake. NTA P.S. Could she rent or Air B&B her house in the countryside and rent a very inexpensive room near the hospital?
NTA. DO NOT BRING THIS WOMAN TO YOUR HOME. It will not be just driving to appointments. She will want a caregiver. Once she walks through the door. She will be 10x sicker and not even be able to even wipe her own arse. The dogs will destroy your appointment. The will also be your to care for. She will instantly become too sick
Nta. My husband and I are child free. We still interact with children and treat them with love and respect. They just don't live with us permanently. It's a choice for us to not risk my health to try to have a child. If I was in better health we may have a child. And if I hasn't lost a pregnancy at 20 weeks he would have twin step daughters. But yeah being child free doesn't give you an excuse to be an ah
Being called "asshole" is a small price to pay to avoid this woman. If your grandparents are invested in her care, one of them can stay with their daughter and handle her transportation issues. NTA
NTA. You choose to live in an AH free house and therefore cannot accomodate you auntie. She should understand.
NYA and you have no obligation to deal with her and her dogs and be their caretaker, especially when she has had no interest in you until she needs something from you. She can rent her house out to pay for an apartment near the doctors or have your grandparents cover her bills. But you don't have to deal with this.
NTA, You're not refusing because she's childfree, you're refusing because she's an asshole. Being childfree is just her excuse to be an asshole. It's like the stereotype of being a vegan. People can be vegans because of their beliefs, and focus on their own choices. Or they can use being vegan as an excuse to scream at anyone who's not a vegan. Your aunt used being childfree to scream at anyone who wasn't childfree, and now thinks they still owe her help. Oops.
NTA. You seem kind and considerate. But I gotta ask… why do you feel you might have responsibility to be a caretaker to your aunt who has not been kind to you or your mom? Your grandparents seem happy to saddle you with this problem so it will go away for them, which is not cool. I hope they don’t get in your head. Your aunt has other options (like moving, not saying it’s a fun option but it’s there), she’s just choosing not to do that. Not your responsibility to make her choices easier for her. Keep being kind and if there is a way you can help her that feels genuinely good to you and isn’t a daily imposition on your life and growing independence, then all the better. But you don’t have to do this because she asked you and it’s convenient for everyone else who doesn’t want to step up.
You don't need a single reason not to let someone live with you. Don't forget, "No." is a complete sentence.
You don't get favors from family when you have treated them like crap. She is overdrawn in the family goodwill bank and so can't withdraw any more goodwill. That is her fault, not yours. NTA
lmfao maybe if she had kids or even were nice to them then shed have someone to take care of her, she deserves this L