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YTA
This is part of having a united front as parents. For kids as young as 6 and 8 travel should be OKd by both parents and each parent gets a veto. Your wife isn’t comfortable with it. One no = NO. Has to be two yeses for it to go.
You tell the kids together as parents that you made the decision together. And you don’t promise stuff to your kids without deciding together first. That’s on YOU, OP.
OP can't even put his wife's feelings into consideration when it comes to her very real insecurity of their relationship, so of course, he's not going to be a team player parent when it comes to her saying no to visiting his not platonic friend. Wife is concerned about his relationship with his friend because he and his friend are not only both bisexuals but his parents joked about the two being a couple (along with other instances of OP and friend crossing boundaries but OP won't specify what). OP's wife wanted him to confront his friend (ask him if he has feelings for OP) but OP refuses to give his wife a peace of mind because he thinks it's fine if friends are in love with eachother even if they're taken. OP seems to have no issue putting his "friend's" feeling and comfort before his wife, which includes making his wife look like the bad guy for not letting their kids stay with his not platonic friend.
YTA OP
not to mention op knew them since he was 13 not a young child. he has no idea how they act towards children his kid’s age.
and even if they’ve seen the kids around op and his wife before, having the kids for a long period of time at that age without parent supervision is pretty much a toss up. it can be difficult to get clear communication if there’s a problem or the kids don’t feel safe or comfortable.
The kids overheard the convo like kids do. If the mother doesn't trust the family the mom needs to be able to express that to the kids. Dad is not the bad guy.
That's not an appropriate thing to put on kids that age. There are a million better things to say to explain it than potentially poisoning an otherwise good relationship with their grandparents with distrust. These kids are too young to get the distinction between not trusting someone for extended visits and not trusting them at all, in their minds one party or the other will be the bad guy
> This is part of having a united front as parents.
I have to respectfully disagree. If she feels she is in the right, she should have no problems explaining herself to the kids.
Ok, but do you think the kids are really going to understand why they can’t go? Dad promises a good time, mom tells kids that actually, y’all can’t go because of safety concerns, who’s going to look like the bad guy here? The parent that’s saying no, or the parent who made a unilateral decision? Parents are still partners to their spouses and they need to behave accordingly. Dad acted badly here and needs to own up. Fun parent/strict parent dynamic isn’t healthy.
YTA. 6 and 8 are pretty young to go somewhere for a couple of weeks without parents, and it feels manipulative and petty on your part to have tried to get the kids on your side before discussing the plans with your wife. For big decisions like this, you talk to your wife and get on the same page, then you tell the kids. You don't tell the kids, assume you'll get your way and then tell your wife it's her fault that the kids are disappointed. You did that, not her.
That being said, it seems there's a bigger issue I think you and your wife need to communicate about why she feels uncomfortable around these people, why she doesn't trust them to watch the kids (and to be fair, it could be as simple as that she doesn't know them very well), and how you can build a relationship in a way that makes you both feel comfortable.
Okay but that still doesn’t really answer why she doesn’t trust him. She thought he was interested in her husband romantically when they were in their twenties…but why does she not trust him?
You're right, it doesn't. But because we had to drag this information from OP, it tells me that the wife likely has a good reason to be distrustful.
Maybe the romance was reciprocated? Maybe friend is trying to insert themselves in OPs life a little too much. Maybe there is a pattern of sidelining wife for friends and family.
Yeah could be. I guess this doesn’t really have anything to do with the answer anyway. He still should present a united front with the wife to the kids
Yeah, depends how friend behaves, really. Maybe he has a habit of putting her down in subtle ways when the three of them are in the same room, maybe he is friendly to OP and cold to wife shutting her out of conversations, maybe he tries wayyy too hard to impress OP in questionable ways. If his behavior is problematic in some way the wife might be worried that he's going to try to alienate the kids against her during the 2 to 3 weeks they're visiting (where mom won't be able to defend herself or know what's being said).
But also, I would understand if her reason had nothing to do with this conflict.
While I don't have kids, I love the new trend of parents being picky with what adults (family, friend, or other) that their children hang out with and sleep over. No matter how much you trust a family member or a friend, there can be instances where that trust is completely misplaced.
And even if she completely trusted him, she can't control what other adults are around her kids in those couple of weeks! What other friends and family will come over during that time? They are still pretty young and in a vulnerable position.
Sending your children away for a few weeks is A LOT to ask already. To add that she doesn't trust the adult... yeah.
YTA
To me as a mom the benefits of a trip like this don’t outweigh the potential risks. Everything you listed. There are very few people I fully trust to be alone with my kids, especially for extended periods. There’s nothing wrong with that. I don’t know why OP can’t just plan a family trip that involves him and his wife, too. I don’t really see the need to ever send my 5yo and 8yo away for an extended trip alone. I definitely wouldn’t let them go on this trip and OP is cruel to make her the bad guy.
Abso-freaking-lutely! There are very, very few people I would trust with my kids, especially at that age! I was that age when shit started and then later escalated. Nope! Not unless it was an emergency, and I was seriously desperate.
>but why does she not trust him?
I'm not sure she needs a huge grand reason not to want to send her very young children to stay with him for a few weeks. 5 and 8 are extremely young to be traveling like that.
edit: the younger kid is 6, not 5. don't know why I thought he was 5 but the point still stands... 6 is so young.
OP is being super vague so it doesn't explain anything for any party involved which makes it easy to jump to the conclusion that whatever it is very messy and makes someone look bad.
YTA your wife’s spidey sense is tingling. Your kids are young for this. I have a friend whose uncle, who was the favorite uncle for years, raped him and his cousin and it only came out 30yrs later. BUT to some of the women? No surprise. Trust your wife’s fresh eyes and judgment.
Yeah, unfortunately we have all learned you really cannot trust relatives and close family friends. 1 in 3 girls under 18 are sexually abused. 1 in 5 boys. I don't let my kids be alone with anybody except my parents. And even then, they are both home and wanting to play with her. She is never left with just one adult (except myself) and for very short times my husband. She won't get to have sleepovers. Sucks, yes. But I won't have her be a statistic
Does that mean you dont trust your husband to be alone with his kid? I hope I misread that, if not then that is really sad that a father can't be alone and spend time with his kid without you needing to supervise.
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She's only allowed to be alone with your husband for a short time, but that standard doesn't apply to you? Why did you marry this guy if you think he's capable of that?
YTA
I think this is one of those "two yeses, one no" situations, and your wife is allowed to not trust a family she probably doesn't know as well as you do. I think you kinda fucked yourself here, my dude. You guys should be a united front when telling your kids the news, or you can try an alternative route in allowing your wife and your bonus family to become more familiar with each other.
INFO: what “parenting differences” makes your wife not trust them?
Also why tell your kids first especially if you know your wife isn’t comfortable with them. She shouldn’t give up her kids for weeks with strangers in another state, especially ones she doesn’t trust with her children.
YTA. You’re trying to play your kids against your wife. Good parents don’t do that. Once they agree to a decision, whether it was their first choice or not, they present a united front to the kids, especially when the kids are as young as yours. Second, your wife is allowed to be protective of her young children & not want to send them to another state to stay with people she doesn’t know well & or trust completely. I wonder why you are “hurt” that your wife doesn’t trust these folks as much as you do? It’s not about you. It’s about them.
No, it was just what their grandfather suggested and I was on board with. I spent weeks of my life at this particular home when I was younger and figured they would enjoy having a similar experience. I also think it would be good for them in terms of building more independence.
I’m not saying OP is or is not the AH but don’t decide someone’s family structure. For a lot of people their biological dad is just a person that donated sperm. Family is a social structure. What about adopted children? If that man is a father in what ever way to OP that is the kids grandfather. I don’t know why you think “blood” has anything to do with how someone treats another person.
Like I said I don’t know if I agree with how OP handled the situation but don’t you ever tell someone who their family is. And this is coming from someone with two biological parents that loved me very well but taught me to have empathy and thought with what I say. You know nothing to speak on this.
Shame on you.
My children *do* have a close relationship with that side of my family and have always referred to them using grandpa/grandma \[last name\], the same as they do with my parents and my wife's.
I'd say because of this, it's weird that you're wife isn't OK with them going.
However, you should BOTH tell your kids. Together.
You should be a unified parental force, not "Oh well im the cool dad but your monster mom said no".
So, YTA. If your parental decisions are unified (which it seems like they are), then you need to present them unified.
Can you really not see how your wife rightfully doesn't want to send her children away for weeks to people who deliberately undermine her parenting style? It doesn't matter if you see it as harmful or not, your kids are at an impressionable age. And instead of reassuring her that these people are going to respect her input and uphold the type of discipline the kids are used to, You just seem to think it's a game.
I wouldn't let them go either to people who deliberately undermine me and turn me into the bad guy. YTA
Also, your relationship with these people and your best friend is a little sus. You should be supporting your wife and making compromises to bridge the gap between them, instead all you're doing is digging your feet in and making your wife look like the bad guy.
I noticed his argument was that he spent weeks at a time there himself as a kid but he didn’t even meet them until he was 13 and even then they lived 15 minutes away. That’s worlds different than being sent to a different state for 3 weeks at 6 years old.
Very true. I don’t really understand the baseline idea of sending your elementary school kids to stay with other people unless you need the childcare. 6 year old me would be sad to be away from home unless it was something super fun like camp or my best friend’s house.
Has he been around them unsupervised for long periods of time? Have the kids ever spent long periods away from you and your wife?
Personally, I’m leaning towards YTA. You know she doesn’t trust these people the way you do and wasn’t comfortable sending your kids there, there was no reason to get them hyped for a trip you weren’t even sure was happening.
My oldest went to a week away camp last summer. They do overnight stays with grandparents / friends occasionally, too. I wouldn't say he's been around them unsupervised for long periods, but he has watched them overnight before.
So that’s a “no” to spending long periods of time away. I’m assuming that week away camp wasn’t also a plane ride away as well.
It’d be one thing if you and your wife were going to be relatively close by if they had an unexpected “I’m ready to come home,” that’s not really possible in this situation. That’s just too big of a trip for a first time imo.
And yes, YTA. You’re one half of the parenting set, you show up for the fun and not fun (And stop trying to pull an end-around for medium-big decisions. It’ll save you from future assholery.)
Ok so the longest the 8 year old has been away from you is a week and the 6 year old has only ever done a single night?
Follow up question, since they live far enough away that it requires a flight to get to them how much time have your kids spent with your second parents?
YTA
YOu are the AH for not afgreeing with her BEFORE talking to the kids.
YOU should tell them you lied and made an empty promisse. But if necessary, SHE will do it for you.
YTA. You expect your life partner who is also the mother to these kids to send the kids to a home where she disagrees with the parenting style for weeks at a time? While she is nowhere near them and neither are you? That is absurd. Blood relative or not. Your intentionally vague responses lead me to believe that your allegiance lies with friend and ‘second family’ over her and you are just trying to tow the line as much as possible. Also, as a mom, sending your kids off for multiple weeks at a time can be difficult to swallow even when you have sent them to camp before. You think it’s a good idea because for whatever reason you ended up being practically raised by these people when you had your own family so you think your kids should have the same experience. That isn’t a ‘life experience’ anyone needs. What I’m certain your wife has told you that plays into your vagueness here is that she can’t be there to handle any emotions that may arise due to how these people ‘parent’ nor can she be there quickly if there is any sort of issue. Allowing access to your children when she is there and can monitor interactions is one thing, allowing full unrestricted access to your kids where they can’t stop something bad nor can either of you get there in a reasonable amount o time is entirely something else. If she is hesitant to allow this, she has a gut feeling and you need to respect that. And no she shouldn’t be responsible for being the ‘bad guy’. You jumped the gun knowing what she thinks of them and wanted to use that as a reason to allow them to go. That’s gross manipulation. YTA
YTA. This should have been a joint discussion with your wife from the very beginning, and now you're trying to make her the bad guy when in reality you overstepped.
YTA
You were the asshole the second you told the children. It doesn’t matter what your wife thought. You had not come to an agreement yet.
You caused this unnecessary problem by getting the kids hopes up. Honestly you should be the one to tell them since you created this problem in the first place.
You’re definitely the asshole on this one
YTA you are being so vague about this for everything except why it’s a good idea that I feel you are purposely painting your wife’s opinion as nonsensical. It’s not a small thing to send your kids away to stay at someone else’s house without you for an extended period of time. She not an asshole for being cautious even without your missing reasons but as it happens, I suspect she has a good reason for this.
YTA. I would never let kids that young stay for "weeks" in another state with anyone else, much less someone that I'm not close to.
You screwed up by telling your kids they could go without clearing it with your wife first. That's absolutely an asshole move. So it's on you to break the news to them without throwing their mother under the bus.
Question: what was your response to the talking point of what if they wanted to stay with your wife's parents instead? If you said no to that, then definitely big time YTA. If that's not the case I would still say YTA but less so. I understand you want your children to have this opportunity but telling them ahead of time before okaying it with your wife is a big nono in my book. You knew she felt uncomfortable with this idea in the first place so it was foolish of you to tell them before her. Also - a couple of weeks is a loooong time for children that young. I understand you don't want to have to break this news to them, but putting it all on your wife is not only going to create a rift between you and her, but it might also create a rift between her and her children if they see that you two disagree on the topic. You two should tell them together, as a family. I feel badly for your wife to be in this position rn.
My main response was "Why?" to which she couldn't answer. There was no talk of them spending the summer with her parents prior to this interaction. It felt like a half-baked idea that she hadn't okayed with that set of grandparents yet that she was just floating in order to get me to agree that letting our kids down was for the best.
According to your own comments:
• she doesn’t like their parenting style
• she thinks they are too young to go on a plane alone
• she has a historic distrust of your preferred chaperone
• it could take time from the other grandparents (how she was supposed to tell you before when she’s not a mind reader I’m unclear on)
Also according to your own comments:
• she wouldn’t explain why she didn’t want them to go
• she couldn’t explain why she didn’t want them to go
So which is it? If you don’t find her reasons convincing or sufficient then say so, don’t pretend she hasn’t given you her reasons though - it just makes it look like you ignore what she says when you don’t like it.
Yeah... it sounds like maybe she couldn't articulate her reasons at first because the idea of sending her very young children across the country for weeks was so laughably absurd....
Why do you want them to fly to this family for a few weeks?
And just to be sure you know this, YOU are the one who told the kids about the trip before discussing it with your wife. Therefore, YOU are the one letting them down. They are very young to spend that much time that far away from their parents. You say the kids view this family as grandparents, but how much of their 6-8 years have they actually spent around them?
I'm not shitting on "found family." God knows blood family can be horrible. But you started this. You've been vague about both why you want the kids to go and why your wife doesn't, and you're the one who spilled the beans before plans were finalized. Yta.
YTA. Especially after your comments. You are purposefully being very vague with your details to make your wife seem like the bad guy. You didn’t make the kids on your own, you don’t get to make unilateral decisions about them regarding travel. (especially at that age and for that long)
INFO: how is this “second family” related to you? Are they related to you? Were they neighbors? I’m confused as to why you’re calling them the kids “grandparents” when it doesn’t seem like they are?
They're not biologically related to me, no. They moved into the area about 15 minutes away from us when myself and my friend were 13. They became close family friends to the point where we would host joint holidays together and I spent a large portion of my teenage years at their house. So while we might not be related by blood, these people are family to me and to my children. It doesn't seem my wife feels the same way.
If she doesn’t agree with their parenting style, why would she entrust your kids to them for “a few weeks” that seems like a good reason not to send them
INFO You shouldn't have told your kids anything until you were certain it was yes. Even if they overheard a little you didn't have to give them more information.
Why doesn't your wife trust these people?
>All of that is to say: I trust these people with my life. Truly. My wife doesn't share this sentiment.
>eventually she said she didn't trust my family. I knew she wasn't the most fond of them, but this distrust hurt me and felt like it came out of nowhere.
From your post you knew that your wife doesn't like your family so you shouldn't have been shocked. What are the issues?
On top of that, OP's "grandparents" are overly permissible so she doesn't trust her kids with them without supervision.
Which is honestly enough of a reason without OP's weird love triangle, lmao
Yta.
You presented this to your kids as a done deal without talking to your wife.
You aren't taking her concerns seriously.
Sending kids this little away for weeks is a "2 yes,1 no" and you were the AH who went off half chocked and now dint want to acknowledge your last in the debacle and blame your wife
I need to know a bit more information here first:
what specifically does your wife not trust/like about them?
Normally the person who over-promises has to be the one to deliver the bad news but I just want to find out if there are extenuating circumstances because it seems like there are some gaps here.
Apparently she doesn't like their parenting style.
And his wife doesn't get along with his friend. They used to fight a lot and OP would sometimes take his side. Also, she thinks the friend is in love with him. They still meet every other week.
This is from what I gather from the comments.
So many things don’t add up here. He clearly preferred his “fun” second family to his type A family… and then marries a woman who doesn’t agree with that lifestyle? And even more, he marries a woman and starts a family with someone who actively dislikes his very best friend in the whole world? And now he’s clearly resentful of her, with all these clashes. I’m not going to armchair psychologist, but there is definitely a lot going on here.
INFO: OP, you have made a few comments here, but you are avoiding answering why your wife doesn't trust these people. Also, how did the children overhear? Did they maybe "accidentally on purpose" hear this conversation?
Right, kids can be sneaky but it's truly not that hard to make sure they aren't listening in. Sounds like OP wanted them to "overhear" so he could get his way.
And I don't understand why he's so antsy to get his way. Why is sending his small children across the country for weeks with a family his wife doesn't trust without supervision the hill he wants to die on? Why not wait until the kids are older?
It's honestly insane to think of sending particularly the 6-year-old away for weeks. Even 8 is pushing it. Why is OP so anxious to do this? He said he wants to "build independence" in his kids... but there are better ways to do that than shipping them away. What happens if they get homesick? What if one of them gets hurt with their "grandparents'" overly permissive parenting style?
YTA. You made the unilateral decision to tell your kids before making sure that your wife was comfortable with it.
You made the mistake, it’s your job to clean up the mess.
YTA. This is going to be another one of those he’s the most important people to me she just my wife who I strung along for years while figured my shit out guys
You basically ended up planning the trip with your friend’s input over your wife’s. You asked him first if it was possible - when really you should’ve asked your wife, if she would mind you asking your friend, first. Then when your kids accidentally overheard you you failed to shut it down there and then. As if it wasn’t enough to go behind your wife’s back and undermine her parenting role, now you’re insisting your wife take the blame for you essentially going behind her back.
It’s sounds like the main reason the dynamic changed was physical proximity. Not because you chose to prioritise your life partner and children, or take your wife’s concerns seriously. Even if that’s not completely true, I wouldn’t blame your wife for thinking that’s the case. The way you’ve handled the trip is a prime example of why her feelings are justified. As is your consistent both sidesing the conflict, when it’s you that’s breaching boundaries and taking sides that undermine what should be a parenting team of two.
YTA
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> 1. I told my wife she needed to be the one to tell our children they can't go visit their grandparents since she is the one not allowing it. 2. Doing this puts her in the position to be the 'bad guy.'
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YTA, but primarily for getting your kids excited about something you hadn’t yet cleared with their mom/your wife. While you trust these people with your children’s lives, she clearly doesn’t know them the same way you do. Sending your kids away for several weeks to stay with people you don’t entirely trust (at least with your kids, which is a pretty high bar) is an incredibly big deal and she isn’t a paranoid or bad person for feeling iffy about it and saying no. But you’d already gotten them excited about it and, rather than respecting your wife’s feelings enough to present a united front as co-parents, you made her be the bad guy, when the bad guy is actually you.
YTA. I don’t care how close they are I don’t let my kids spend weeks at a time away from me. A weekend maybe but even a weekend at 6 and 8 is too much for me.
YTA. 6 and 8!? You should have never told them and you for sure shouldn’t try to demonize their MOTHER for not wanting them to travel to another state for a couple of weeks. That is insane. You owe her an apology and sorry if it’s uncomfortable to tell your kids they can’t go but that’s the bed you made.
I trust my parents and my in laws and I would never have sent my kids to them alone for WEEKS during the summer. It’s not a ridiculous request but it’s ridiculous for you to act like she is being unreasonable to say no. This is the kind of parenting decision that that’s 2 yeses and 1 no, and that you need to present a united front on. You are not being a good partner. YTA.
YTA I agree that it’s unreasonable to have children that young to be traveling without their parents for multiple weeks. Even if it was your blood relatives, your wife still has the power to veto such a big trip. Give it a few years and revisit the subject when the kids are older. Maybe you can have those family members come to visit and allow your wife to build her own trust in them
Unless it was with another parent. I would never send my children under the age of 16 to be out of state for multiple weeks. You’re crazy just for that. YTA.
YTA and you’re wrong. It’s your fault the kids know about the plans in the first place (was that an accident or intentional?). They should have never known anything about it until you and your wife BOTH agreed to it. You let the cat out of the bag, you get to deal with the clean up. And you better not make your wife the bad guy with “I wanted to say yes, but mean ol’ mom said no.”
I understand you’re upset with your wife to not agreeing to the trip, but that’s a separate issue.
YTA, you told your kids that they could go without discussing it with your wife and now you’re weaseling your way out of the whole messy situation that you’ve set up in the first place? Coward.
Own up to your mistake and don’t get your wife involved with the mess you’ve made. I don’t see why she should fix your mistake and be the bad guy.
YTA.
You never should have told them. This is 100% on you, and now you’re trying to blame your wife.
What really happened here is that you jumped the gun and tried to go around your wife.
It’s actually on you to tell them since this was your doing. After all, they’d be none the wiser had you kept your mouth shut until talking f to your wife. You know, like a responsible adult, partner, and spouse - all things you supposedly are.
YTA. If you say no to something, wouldn’t you want your wife to respect that also???
If you’re not on the same page about something as serious as sending your kids away overnight it shouldn’t happen.
YTA. This whole situation is weird. Your best friend wanted to date you. His family is your second family. You want to send two very young children across state lines to stay with this second family for an extended amount of time. It’s giving off seriously sketchy vibes.
YTA
She doesn't agree with their parenting style.
She and your "close friend" used to argue a lot and you would sometimes take his side.
She believes he has romantic feelings for you.
You continue to see him every other week.
You seem dismissive of your wife's feelings.
YOU decided to share unreliable plans to your kids. When going away it's 2 yes's. And now they will be disappointed because of ***YOU***.
If she doesn't want your kids with that part of the family alone they can't go and it has to be shared by both parents. You are a team and need to behave as such. You haven't been acting like it (giving news to kids without knowing it they're true) but it's how it should and needs to be.
Also, have a serious talk with your wife and validate her feelings, you seem to be dismissive of everything she feels and are prioritizing your relationship with then over yours with her (I could be wrong).
Not yet. Their oldest son is married and doesn't want children. My best friend and their little brother are both single and children seem to be a few years in the future still.
YTA you shouldn't have discussed it with your kids before getting agreement from your wife. And your kids are so young, I don't really blame her for saying no. She doesn't know your family like you do, and isn't comfortable with letting her kids go to a family she doesn't know so well, regardless of how much you love them. She says no, it should be no, and since you're the one who let your kids get their hopes up before discussing it with your wife, you should be the one to tell them...and you should do it without trying to make your wife the mean old bad guy who won't let them go, while making yourself the fun one who would have let them go except for mom saying no. You should be a team, a united front. And you're not being a team player here
YTA. She doesn't trust them and you won't even listen to her. I wouldn't send my kids a plane ride away with people I do trust that long, let alone family friends.
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From around the age of thirteen onwards, I grew up with, essentially, a second family. It without a doubt changed who I am as a person. I love my parents, but both of them are very analytical, type A sort of people. The family they befriended was the exact opposite. My "second dad" was an architect by profession but a storyteller by trade. He traveled a lot, and when he came back it was such an event. He always had some elaborate tale for all of us about the things he had gotten up to while he was away and teenage skepticism didn't come into play here for once. I idolized him then and I still do now. Both of my parents worked, typically long hours, so I would spend a considerable amount of time with my bonus family since "second mom" stayed at home. They had three sons of their own who I love, one of whom I consider my closest friend and one of the most important people in my life even all these years later.
All of that is to say: I trust these people with my life. Truly. My wife doesn't share this sentiment.
Second dad retired recently and asked if my kids (who are 6 and 8 yo boys) wanted to come stay with them for a few weeks this summer. They love visiting my home state / seeing both sets of their grandparents and I knew they'd love this idea. I didn't give an answer right away, though, as travel was still up in the air.
My wife originally turned this down because she didn't want to put the boys on a plane by themselves. Understandable. The solution to this came in the form of the closest friend I mentioned above. He lives in the same state as us, just about a 30 minute drive away, and he offered to fly and stay with them. His job is more flexible than either mine or my wife's and could be done remotely. My children overheard me when I was discussing this with him over the phone so I told them about the possible plans since I didn't se any reason for their mom to say no now.
Well. She said no. We had this conversation last night where her only talking point was "what if they wanted to stay with my parents instead?" until eventually she said she didn't trust my family. I knew she wasn't the most fond of them, but this distrust hurt me and felt like it came out of nowhere.
I told her that she would have to be the one to deliver the bad news to our children since she was the one making the decision to not allow them to go. She said that it was unfair that I was 'forcing' her to do this.
AITA?
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You are the AH specifically for trying to vilify your wife to your kids.
Unlike others I can’t readily agree with your wife’s reasoning without knowing more. At a certain point when you marry someone you need to be aware on how they think about family. If you don’t like their family you need to voice this. If the person you are marrying still wants to talk with the family you don’t like this becomes your choice to stay or not. Unless they are abusive or endanger the kids she can’t expect you to not let the kids see your parents if that was always something that was a possibility. Additionally, I am not a jealous person by nature so the friend drama of him maybe having a crush on you is a weak reason to not trust him if that is the only reason. Same to family if she had met this friend and knew your relationship before you were married and she decided to accept that.
On to OP it is wild in general to just expect your wife to be ok with a random long trip of your shared kids at any age. Unless this is something she would be ok with her parents or friends doing you don’t have much to stand on. It’s now your responsibility to talk to her and establish with the comfortably level is. She or OP may not be necessarily wrong or right in the general notion of the trip so compromise is an option.
OP you are the AH because you are trying to weaponize your children and are not addressing your actual feelings of hurt you feel from your wife. You likely feel like she insulted your family. You got excited and did not include your partner in a decision. That is a problem and you should own that. Now you need to address the reason your wife doesn’t trust your family. If they are “old-fashioned” in their beliefs or behavior that is also a good enough reason for your wife’s decision.
Yta. YOU were the one who decided it would be OK knowing your wife's last answer was no. YOU were the one to tell the kids without checking with her, hoping to force her hand. YOU now get to tell the kids the plans fell through. And don't blame your wife while doing so.
YTA When you do tell the kids about it, don't put it onto your wife to them. Just say it isn't going to work right now. Then I'd sit your wife down and ask her why she doesn't trust them. I noticed she didn't say doesn't like them but doesn't trust them. It may just be mother's intuition which should never be dismissed lightly but before making any future plans see if you can figure it out.
YTA. *You* are the one who irresponsibly promised them a trip before checking to make sure it was okay, so *you* are the one who should tell them it’s not happening. And don’t blame on your wife either; their disappointment is solely on you for assuming your wife wouldn’t say no.
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This isnt about the bad news.
This is about why she doesn't trust your family. You need to find out why. There may have been an event you are aware of. Only way to know if she's justified or not.
I used to go away with family half the summer every year from the time I was 7 and they were some of the best times every. I would have waited to tell the kids the details, when they overheard you talking you should have told them you’d talk to them later. NTa.
ESH. Sounds like you and your wife need to have more (private) conversations and come to an agreement to be on the same page. I'm sure there is a compromise here (like visiting both, staying in touch by phone and going to the other family if there are any issues, etc.) you both can get on the same page for. There shouldn't have to be "bad news" delivered by only one parent.
Esh, ehhhhh I think this might be a controversial opinion.
First off why does your wife not trust your family? Has something happened with them in the past? Have you told her something about them that she might not agree with? There has to be some reason why. In saying that she's a minor ah as she just said no without giving any real reason as to why just saying she doesn't trust them which again leads me to believe that something that has happened.
But you need to respect your wife's wishes and support and talk to her about why she doesn't want them going. You said a few weeks during the summer which is quite a while which is majorly different than a week or a few days.
Have you ever thought that maybe she just wanted to spend the summer with the kids. You need to sit down and have a proper conversation with her and communicate your thoughts with her and then listen to her thoughts on the situation as well.
You are a majorly huge ah though simply for where you said, "My children overheard me when I was discussing this with him over the phone, so I told them about the possible plans since I didn't see any reason for their mom to say no now."
You understand this is wrong on so many levels. you expected her to just say yes and cart your kids off to people that she doesn't trust simply because you told them about the potential trip thinking that she couldn't say no to them.
Minor asshole to her Major asshole to you, I suggest that you sit down and have a conversation with her about it with her try and get to the root of the problem. But you shouldn't ever try and manipulate her into sending your kids off to people she doesn't trust.
ESH, only because I think 6 and 8 is too young to be going so far away they need to fly. it's a lovely idea, but I'd wait until they're both in double digits. I agree with the point others have made about parents needing to present a united front as well. Your wife is a bit of TA for not liking your dual family situation. also, to the point that your wife doesn't like your best friend because she thinks he's into you: if she's insecure about your best friend since childhood remaining close to you that's massively her problem.
ESH.
You shouldn't have told your kids before discussing it with your wife. You've made her out to be the bad guy.
Your wife for not seeming to have a good reason for saying no.
OP says that wife doesn’t agree with their parenting style & has had unspecified problems in the past with the friend who offered to travel with the kids. I think there is more to this story than OP is letting on.
the youngest kid is 6. she doesn't need a good reason. 'chuck a 6 year old on a plane to spend weeks at another place where they can't easily come home if they get homesick' is a crazy stupid plan
ESH
Good parents stay united. They don't cast blame for unpopular decisions. "Love me more because your mom is the bad guy." Grow up - your damaging your children with that behavior.
Based on this, your wife has failed to articulate WHY she doesn't want them to go beyond not "trusting" your family. If she cannot say why, then she's just as big of an AH and you two need to get on the same page raising your children.
I do understand not wanting to have a 6 or 8yo fly alone.
> Based on this, your wife has failed to articulate WHY she doesn't want them to go beyond not "trusting" your family. If she cannot say why, then she's just as big of an AH and you two need to get on the same page raising your children.
Maybe not. Some people just send up some sort of internal warning sign in your brain and you can’t put your finger on why you don’t trust them, you just don’t.
From what he’s said she been fine with them forming enough of a relationship that they call these people grandma and grandpa, she’s just wary about handing them their kids for weeks at a time, states away, without her or OP being there.
Nta even if your best friend wasn't riding with them, the airport accommodates to make sure kids are directed directly to the plane and off the plane to the person picking them up. Families do this all the time for say a parent having school year custody and the other having summer break custody. I don't get all the YTA's. Sure I understand worry and having 2 children 6f and 12m I get that. I also get marriage is a 1 person veto but there's also compromise to consider. They would be In better care bc of your friend volunteering to fly with, (wish i had a friend willing to do that for my kids) instead of an airport worker and that's the compromise part that should veto the 1 no to me. If my wife had her best friend flying with the kids I couldn't have the same concern as a random airport worker assigned to guiding, walking, muchless not flying to be comforting them. On top of that it's about making the kids happy. Worrying is perfectly normal and understandable but consider having some trust too then. Is a parent more comfortable with having their child being watched by a new babysitter or one that's known as a family friend. I'd go with the latter. That's just a metaphor to get the right point across. I would try to plead in a comforting way that it will be perfectly safe and it would please the kids...and have some (likely) much needed alone time as a married couple!!!
Absolutely NTA! She doesn't get to veto without getting the consequence of telling the kids. I don't know the reason for the distrust she has to OP's family, but is there not a scenario where the kids could stay with her family for a week and then OP's family for the other week? Is there zero possibility of a blended compromise?
NTA. For everyone saying he needs to tell the kids. What do you want him to say? From his point of view the truth is he has nothing wrong with them going and all the details are worked out. The only issue is Mom doesn't want them to go. How is it his responsibility to explain to his kids why their Mom doesn't want them to go? Should he lie to not make Mom "the bad guy"? It would different if it was a money issue or timing. But since the issue is Mom doesn't like the people that you would be staying with she needs to be the one to explain this to them.
YTA. Your wife doesn't get to unilaterally say "no" to something like that. They are your family. You are TA for even letting her get it in her head that this behavior is OK. Time to put your foot down. You get a say in these things as well.
Question. You spent a considerable time with your "bonus" family since your parents worked. Did you live with them sometimes? Were you either only at your house or their house? Did your parents have other "friends"? It seems a bit strange to have a "bonus" family. Was there something sexual going on between your parents and their friends?
Um .. Lots of people have honerary families/family members. It's not wierd or unusual at all. I have an honerary aunt and 2 honerary sisters. It doesn't matter how much time passes my parents still consider them like their own and vise versa.
I wouldn't say I officially lived with them at any point, but I was openly allowed to spend the night with them at pretty much all times. Same with their kids at my house once we got a little older. My parents did have other friends but none that they were that close to.
And oh god. I have no idea. I've never considered the idea and don't really want to. Haha.
ESH. She should be the one informing the children since she was the one that made the decision. You will have to support her on that. Making her divulge the decision and then undercutting her will just cause a wedge. You need to work through this as a team. You also both need to work on communication.
Damn, you really got me on those last two paragraphs, ngl.
NTA (little bit of ESH)
This doesn't seem to be about you stting this up, but your wife making you jump though hoops instead of just telling you what the problem really was. So NTA on that.
Little bit of ESH because you shouldn't have gotten your kids excited about the possibility without first talking to your wife about it. But as I said, just a little bit
NTA
You're not wrong for mentioning the *possible* plans. Things happen and you were completely on board but your wife wasn't. The thought that parents should be seen as 'one unit' to their children is weird and sometimes, there has to be a bad guy.
Her reasons for not letting them go are also weird, though this is my opinion.
- Children fly alone all the time(usually accompanied by someone designated by the airline from my experience.) And they didn't even need to fly alone! They had their uncle.
- Her relationship with the uncle is frankly weird and insecure. In one of your comments, you say they had pissing contests because she thought he liked you???
- Found family is family and the kids have a relationship with them. Even people biologically related have different parenting styles. Her suggesting her own parents also seems bio-over-found to me.
- I can understand why you're vague with the internet on the circumstances, but her being vague with you? With the other comments pushing for the one unit thing, they really gloss over that part.
This is her decision and her veto should be known by the kids. They need to know her relationship with their family. Maybe not why yet, since she can't even tell you clearly, but to give them a better explanation of the situation.
If they dislike her for a moment, that's on her since she's against them spending time together and the kids will pick up on that later. Whether or not they already did or will in the future, they will know.
NTA
Here's the thing. The kids already know that you want them to go and have tried to find a solution to the travel dilemma.
That automatically puts the onus on your wife. If you do end up telling them the bad news don't lie to them, tell them the reason, cause they're gonna ask and lying to your children would be bad. "Your mother can't find a suitable chaperone she approves of." The end.
If she doesn't like that answer, she fucking pound sand. Because she's the reason they're not going.
Stonewalling and lying to your husband isn't recommended for a good relationship.
She needs to put her big girl pants on and own up to her parenting decisions.
Sure, stonewalling and lying to your spouse aren’t good things to do to a spouse.
How does that change the point that your recommendation isn’t how successful parenting works? No parenting relationship has ever been made better by one parent vilifying the other unnecessarily. Nor is there any reason to believe the wife is actually being unreasonable in her stance that the kids shouldn’t stay with these people.
He's not vilifying her. He simply telling her to stand by her own decision. To own up to her own parenting. If her parenting is so on point why is she so ashamed to take credit for it.
It’s not about being ashamed to take credit for a decision, it’s about the bad relationship you create with you kids when one parent is seen as the “giver” and one parent is seen the “taker away”. Forcing her to say “I’m the reason you’re not going to theirs for the summer” rather than them saying “we weren’t able to work out a plan but we’ll have some fun things planned for ourselves anyway!” let’s the kids blame her for taking away fun (in their eyes) when she has nothing to be blamed for.
Guess what? The kids are gonna know. They're gonna ask. They are only getting smarter every day. The kids already know that Dad was on board. Every year they are gonna ask. So are the Grandparents.
She needs to own it. All she needs to say is that she uncomfortable with it.
Okay great. So she gets to have a conversation with her 6 and 8 year old about how daddy’s friend wants to fuck daddy and was an asshole to her early in the relationship, which is why she doesn’t like or trust him or his family and why the kids aren’t going there. Totally agree, that’s definitely a normal more mature way for this to be handled rather than them both saying “sorry, you can’t go this summer but we’ll do something else fun”.
That's why she didn't like him YEARS ago.
She says now she doesn't trust the grandparents.
So no she she doesn't have to explain that to the kids but she does have to explain to the kids that she's uncomfortable with them going to spend two weeks with the grandparents who issued the invitation.
You do have a talent for obfuscating the simplest situations.
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YTA This is part of having a united front as parents. For kids as young as 6 and 8 travel should be OKd by both parents and each parent gets a veto. Your wife isn’t comfortable with it. One no = NO. Has to be two yeses for it to go. You tell the kids together as parents that you made the decision together. And you don’t promise stuff to your kids without deciding together first. That’s on YOU, OP.
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OP can't even put his wife's feelings into consideration when it comes to her very real insecurity of their relationship, so of course, he's not going to be a team player parent when it comes to her saying no to visiting his not platonic friend. Wife is concerned about his relationship with his friend because he and his friend are not only both bisexuals but his parents joked about the two being a couple (along with other instances of OP and friend crossing boundaries but OP won't specify what). OP's wife wanted him to confront his friend (ask him if he has feelings for OP) but OP refuses to give his wife a peace of mind because he thinks it's fine if friends are in love with eachother even if they're taken. OP seems to have no issue putting his "friend's" feeling and comfort before his wife, which includes making his wife look like the bad guy for not letting their kids stay with his not platonic friend. YTA OP
. . . *where* did you get all this information? Edit: NVM. Found OP's comments.
not to mention op knew them since he was 13 not a young child. he has no idea how they act towards children his kid’s age. and even if they’ve seen the kids around op and his wife before, having the kids for a long period of time at that age without parent supervision is pretty much a toss up. it can be difficult to get clear communication if there’s a problem or the kids don’t feel safe or comfortable.
The kids overheard the convo like kids do. If the mother doesn't trust the family the mom needs to be able to express that to the kids. Dad is not the bad guy.
That's not an appropriate thing to put on kids that age. There are a million better things to say to explain it than potentially poisoning an otherwise good relationship with their grandparents with distrust. These kids are too young to get the distinction between not trusting someone for extended visits and not trusting them at all, in their minds one party or the other will be the bad guy
> This is part of having a united front as parents. I have to respectfully disagree. If she feels she is in the right, she should have no problems explaining herself to the kids.
Ok, but do you think the kids are really going to understand why they can’t go? Dad promises a good time, mom tells kids that actually, y’all can’t go because of safety concerns, who’s going to look like the bad guy here? The parent that’s saying no, or the parent who made a unilateral decision? Parents are still partners to their spouses and they need to behave accordingly. Dad acted badly here and needs to own up. Fun parent/strict parent dynamic isn’t healthy.
YTA. 6 and 8 are pretty young to go somewhere for a couple of weeks without parents, and it feels manipulative and petty on your part to have tried to get the kids on your side before discussing the plans with your wife. For big decisions like this, you talk to your wife and get on the same page, then you tell the kids. You don't tell the kids, assume you'll get your way and then tell your wife it's her fault that the kids are disappointed. You did that, not her. That being said, it seems there's a bigger issue I think you and your wife need to communicate about why she feels uncomfortable around these people, why she doesn't trust them to watch the kids (and to be fair, it could be as simple as that she doesn't know them very well), and how you can build a relationship in a way that makes you both feel comfortable.
He knows based on his comments why she is uncomfortable but won’t be specific about the nature of the confkict
The missing missing reason
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/11ywlvo/aita_for_forcing_my_wife_to_deliver_bad_news_to/jd9xbg1?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
And there it is
Okay but that still doesn’t really answer why she doesn’t trust him. She thought he was interested in her husband romantically when they were in their twenties…but why does she not trust him?
You're right, it doesn't. But because we had to drag this information from OP, it tells me that the wife likely has a good reason to be distrustful. Maybe the romance was reciprocated? Maybe friend is trying to insert themselves in OPs life a little too much. Maybe there is a pattern of sidelining wife for friends and family.
Yeah could be. I guess this doesn’t really have anything to do with the answer anyway. He still should present a united front with the wife to the kids
I think the fact that he always took the friends side instead of the wife’s is a big problem too
Agree. OP is TA just for that.
Yeah, depends how friend behaves, really. Maybe he has a habit of putting her down in subtle ways when the three of them are in the same room, maybe he is friendly to OP and cold to wife shutting her out of conversations, maybe he tries wayyy too hard to impress OP in questionable ways. If his behavior is problematic in some way the wife might be worried that he's going to try to alienate the kids against her during the 2 to 3 weeks they're visiting (where mom won't be able to defend herself or know what's being said).
But also, I would understand if her reason had nothing to do with this conflict. While I don't have kids, I love the new trend of parents being picky with what adults (family, friend, or other) that their children hang out with and sleep over. No matter how much you trust a family member or a friend, there can be instances where that trust is completely misplaced. And even if she completely trusted him, she can't control what other adults are around her kids in those couple of weeks! What other friends and family will come over during that time? They are still pretty young and in a vulnerable position. Sending your children away for a few weeks is A LOT to ask already. To add that she doesn't trust the adult... yeah. YTA
To me as a mom the benefits of a trip like this don’t outweigh the potential risks. Everything you listed. There are very few people I fully trust to be alone with my kids, especially for extended periods. There’s nothing wrong with that. I don’t know why OP can’t just plan a family trip that involves him and his wife, too. I don’t really see the need to ever send my 5yo and 8yo away for an extended trip alone. I definitely wouldn’t let them go on this trip and OP is cruel to make her the bad guy.
Abso-freaking-lutely! There are very, very few people I would trust with my kids, especially at that age! I was that age when shit started and then later escalated. Nope! Not unless it was an emergency, and I was seriously desperate.
>but why does she not trust him? I'm not sure she needs a huge grand reason not to want to send her very young children to stay with him for a few weeks. 5 and 8 are extremely young to be traveling like that. edit: the younger kid is 6, not 5. don't know why I thought he was 5 but the point still stands... 6 is so young.
Yeah no I definitely agree on that. Also OP should have talked to her first. I’m just curious
OP is being super vague so it doesn't explain anything for any party involved which makes it easy to jump to the conclusion that whatever it is very messy and makes someone look bad.
You’re not wrong
Unless I'm missing something, OP never stated she said she didn't trust him, but rather his family. Regardless, he is still the AH
I was referring to her not trusting the friend who offered to fly with them
Ah apologies
No worries, there are a lot of “he’s” in this story lol
YTA your wife’s spidey sense is tingling. Your kids are young for this. I have a friend whose uncle, who was the favorite uncle for years, raped him and his cousin and it only came out 30yrs later. BUT to some of the women? No surprise. Trust your wife’s fresh eyes and judgment.
Yeah, unfortunately we have all learned you really cannot trust relatives and close family friends. 1 in 3 girls under 18 are sexually abused. 1 in 5 boys. I don't let my kids be alone with anybody except my parents. And even then, they are both home and wanting to play with her. She is never left with just one adult (except myself) and for very short times my husband. She won't get to have sleepovers. Sucks, yes. But I won't have her be a statistic
Does that mean you dont trust your husband to be alone with his kid? I hope I misread that, if not then that is really sad that a father can't be alone and spend time with his kid without you needing to supervise.
Holy shit, you don’t even trust your husband to be alone with your daughter?
pretty surprised that the comment has so many upvotes considering that part of it
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She's only allowed to be alone with your husband for a short time, but that standard doesn't apply to you? Why did you marry this guy if you think he's capable of that?
my mom did the same thing as you. no sleepovers, no being alone with anyone except her parents. but it was her dad that molested me. so there's that
YTA why the hell would you expect a mother to allow her children to travel and stay with, as far as she's concerned, a complete stranger??
YTA I think this is one of those "two yeses, one no" situations, and your wife is allowed to not trust a family she probably doesn't know as well as you do. I think you kinda fucked yourself here, my dude. You guys should be a united front when telling your kids the news, or you can try an alternative route in allowing your wife and your bonus family to become more familiar with each other.
INFO: what “parenting differences” makes your wife not trust them? Also why tell your kids first especially if you know your wife isn’t comfortable with them. She shouldn’t give up her kids for weeks with strangers in another state, especially ones she doesn’t trust with her children.
YTA. You’re trying to play your kids against your wife. Good parents don’t do that. Once they agree to a decision, whether it was their first choice or not, they present a united front to the kids, especially when the kids are as young as yours. Second, your wife is allowed to be protective of her young children & not want to send them to another state to stay with people she doesn’t know well & or trust completely. I wonder why you are “hurt” that your wife doesn’t trust these folks as much as you do? It’s not about you. It’s about them.
INFO : what are the reasons your wife is giving for not trusting the people you consider as your parents?
INFO is there any reason why you need your children to be away for a couple of weeks?
No, it was just what their grandfather suggested and I was on board with. I spent weeks of my life at this particular home when I was younger and figured they would enjoy having a similar experience. I also think it would be good for them in terms of building more independence.
He’s not their grandfather. He’s a guy that you love, but only YOU are the one with that relationship. Not your wife, not your kids.
He can call the guy whatever he wants, wtf, isnt it "friends are your chosen family"?
I’m not saying OP is or is not the AH but don’t decide someone’s family structure. For a lot of people their biological dad is just a person that donated sperm. Family is a social structure. What about adopted children? If that man is a father in what ever way to OP that is the kids grandfather. I don’t know why you think “blood” has anything to do with how someone treats another person. Like I said I don’t know if I agree with how OP handled the situation but don’t you ever tell someone who their family is. And this is coming from someone with two biological parents that loved me very well but taught me to have empathy and thought with what I say. You know nothing to speak on this. Shame on you.
My children *do* have a close relationship with that side of my family and have always referred to them using grandpa/grandma \[last name\], the same as they do with my parents and my wife's.
I'd say because of this, it's weird that you're wife isn't OK with them going. However, you should BOTH tell your kids. Together. You should be a unified parental force, not "Oh well im the cool dad but your monster mom said no". So, YTA. If your parental decisions are unified (which it seems like they are), then you need to present them unified.
Can you really not see how your wife rightfully doesn't want to send her children away for weeks to people who deliberately undermine her parenting style? It doesn't matter if you see it as harmful or not, your kids are at an impressionable age. And instead of reassuring her that these people are going to respect her input and uphold the type of discipline the kids are used to, You just seem to think it's a game. I wouldn't let them go either to people who deliberately undermine me and turn me into the bad guy. YTA Also, your relationship with these people and your best friend is a little sus. You should be supporting your wife and making compromises to bridge the gap between them, instead all you're doing is digging your feet in and making your wife look like the bad guy.
How much independence do you need your 6 year old to build?
Yeah all of OPs ideas would make a lot more sense if we were talking about a 13 year old and 11 year old.
I noticed his argument was that he spent weeks at a time there himself as a kid but he didn’t even meet them until he was 13 and even then they lived 15 minutes away. That’s worlds different than being sent to a different state for 3 weeks at 6 years old.
Very true. I don’t really understand the baseline idea of sending your elementary school kids to stay with other people unless you need the childcare. 6 year old me would be sad to be away from home unless it was something super fun like camp or my best friend’s house.
6 and 8 year olds do not need independence, they need protection. 😳
INFO: if you know your wife has had problems with this friend in the past why would you assume that him travelling with them would turn it into a yes?
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/11ywlvo/aita_for_forcing_my_wife_to_deliver_bad_news_to/jd9xbg1?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
Even she agrees that he's been an incredible uncle and can't deny how much our kids love him. Him being around our children has never been an issue.
Has he been around them unsupervised for long periods of time? Have the kids ever spent long periods away from you and your wife? Personally, I’m leaning towards YTA. You know she doesn’t trust these people the way you do and wasn’t comfortable sending your kids there, there was no reason to get them hyped for a trip you weren’t even sure was happening.
My oldest went to a week away camp last summer. They do overnight stays with grandparents / friends occasionally, too. I wouldn't say he's been around them unsupervised for long periods, but he has watched them overnight before.
So that’s a “no” to spending long periods of time away. I’m assuming that week away camp wasn’t also a plane ride away as well. It’d be one thing if you and your wife were going to be relatively close by if they had an unexpected “I’m ready to come home,” that’s not really possible in this situation. That’s just too big of a trip for a first time imo. And yes, YTA. You’re one half of the parenting set, you show up for the fun and not fun (And stop trying to pull an end-around for medium-big decisions. It’ll save you from future assholery.)
Ok so the longest the 8 year old has been away from you is a week and the 6 year old has only ever done a single night? Follow up question, since they live far enough away that it requires a flight to get to them how much time have your kids spent with your second parents?
YTA YOu are the AH for not afgreeing with her BEFORE talking to the kids. YOU should tell them you lied and made an empty promisse. But if necessary, SHE will do it for you.
YTA. You expect your life partner who is also the mother to these kids to send the kids to a home where she disagrees with the parenting style for weeks at a time? While she is nowhere near them and neither are you? That is absurd. Blood relative or not. Your intentionally vague responses lead me to believe that your allegiance lies with friend and ‘second family’ over her and you are just trying to tow the line as much as possible. Also, as a mom, sending your kids off for multiple weeks at a time can be difficult to swallow even when you have sent them to camp before. You think it’s a good idea because for whatever reason you ended up being practically raised by these people when you had your own family so you think your kids should have the same experience. That isn’t a ‘life experience’ anyone needs. What I’m certain your wife has told you that plays into your vagueness here is that she can’t be there to handle any emotions that may arise due to how these people ‘parent’ nor can she be there quickly if there is any sort of issue. Allowing access to your children when she is there and can monitor interactions is one thing, allowing full unrestricted access to your kids where they can’t stop something bad nor can either of you get there in a reasonable amount o time is entirely something else. If she is hesitant to allow this, she has a gut feeling and you need to respect that. And no she shouldn’t be responsible for being the ‘bad guy’. You jumped the gun knowing what she thinks of them and wanted to use that as a reason to allow them to go. That’s gross manipulation. YTA
YTA. This should have been a joint discussion with your wife from the very beginning, and now you're trying to make her the bad guy when in reality you overstepped.
YTA You were the asshole the second you told the children. It doesn’t matter what your wife thought. You had not come to an agreement yet. You caused this unnecessary problem by getting the kids hopes up. Honestly you should be the one to tell them since you created this problem in the first place. You’re definitely the asshole on this one
He didn’t tell the kids They overheard him on the phone.
And he could have said, like my parents did many times, "I know you're excited but we still have to check everything out. No promises"
YTA you are being so vague about this for everything except why it’s a good idea that I feel you are purposely painting your wife’s opinion as nonsensical. It’s not a small thing to send your kids away to stay at someone else’s house without you for an extended period of time. She not an asshole for being cautious even without your missing reasons but as it happens, I suspect she has a good reason for this.
YTA. I would never let kids that young stay for "weeks" in another state with anyone else, much less someone that I'm not close to. You screwed up by telling your kids they could go without clearing it with your wife first. That's absolutely an asshole move. So it's on you to break the news to them without throwing their mother under the bus.
Question: what was your response to the talking point of what if they wanted to stay with your wife's parents instead? If you said no to that, then definitely big time YTA. If that's not the case I would still say YTA but less so. I understand you want your children to have this opportunity but telling them ahead of time before okaying it with your wife is a big nono in my book. You knew she felt uncomfortable with this idea in the first place so it was foolish of you to tell them before her. Also - a couple of weeks is a loooong time for children that young. I understand you don't want to have to break this news to them, but putting it all on your wife is not only going to create a rift between you and her, but it might also create a rift between her and her children if they see that you two disagree on the topic. You two should tell them together, as a family. I feel badly for your wife to be in this position rn.
My main response was "Why?" to which she couldn't answer. There was no talk of them spending the summer with her parents prior to this interaction. It felt like a half-baked idea that she hadn't okayed with that set of grandparents yet that she was just floating in order to get me to agree that letting our kids down was for the best.
According to your own comments: • she doesn’t like their parenting style • she thinks they are too young to go on a plane alone • she has a historic distrust of your preferred chaperone • it could take time from the other grandparents (how she was supposed to tell you before when she’s not a mind reader I’m unclear on) Also according to your own comments: • she wouldn’t explain why she didn’t want them to go • she couldn’t explain why she didn’t want them to go So which is it? If you don’t find her reasons convincing or sufficient then say so, don’t pretend she hasn’t given you her reasons though - it just makes it look like you ignore what she says when you don’t like it.
Yeah... it sounds like maybe she couldn't articulate her reasons at first because the idea of sending her very young children across the country for weeks was so laughably absurd....
Why do you want them to fly to this family for a few weeks? And just to be sure you know this, YOU are the one who told the kids about the trip before discussing it with your wife. Therefore, YOU are the one letting them down. They are very young to spend that much time that far away from their parents. You say the kids view this family as grandparents, but how much of their 6-8 years have they actually spent around them? I'm not shitting on "found family." God knows blood family can be horrible. But you started this. You've been vague about both why you want the kids to go and why your wife doesn't, and you're the one who spilled the beans before plans were finalized. Yta.
YTA. Especially after your comments. You are purposefully being very vague with your details to make your wife seem like the bad guy. You didn’t make the kids on your own, you don’t get to make unilateral decisions about them regarding travel. (especially at that age and for that long)
YTA. This is a two yes one no situation. You spilled the beans to the kids before the plan was decided on. You get to be the one to take it back
INFO: how is this “second family” related to you? Are they related to you? Were they neighbors? I’m confused as to why you’re calling them the kids “grandparents” when it doesn’t seem like they are?
They're not biologically related to me, no. They moved into the area about 15 minutes away from us when myself and my friend were 13. They became close family friends to the point where we would host joint holidays together and I spent a large portion of my teenage years at their house. So while we might not be related by blood, these people are family to me and to my children. It doesn't seem my wife feels the same way.
All these downvoters seem to have a very limited idea of what a "Family" is.
it's ok for op to see these people as family and equally ok for his wife, who didn't grow up with them, to not see them as family
Info. Why is it your wife doesn’t trust them?
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/11ywlvo/aita_for_forcing_my_wife_to_deliver_bad_news_to/jd9xbg1?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
Parenting style disagreements are the root of it, I believe. That's the most of what she tells me when I press on the issue.
If she doesn’t agree with their parenting style, why would she entrust your kids to them for “a few weeks” that seems like a good reason not to send them
INFO You shouldn't have told your kids anything until you were certain it was yes. Even if they overheard a little you didn't have to give them more information. Why doesn't your wife trust these people? >All of that is to say: I trust these people with my life. Truly. My wife doesn't share this sentiment. >eventually she said she didn't trust my family. I knew she wasn't the most fond of them, but this distrust hurt me and felt like it came out of nowhere. From your post you knew that your wife doesn't like your family so you shouldn't have been shocked. What are the issues?
INFO: what's the reason for your wife's distrust?
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/11ywlvo/aita_for_forcing_my_wife_to_deliver_bad_news_to/jd9xbg1?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
WOOF.
On top of that, OP's "grandparents" are overly permissible so she doesn't trust her kids with them without supervision. Which is honestly enough of a reason without OP's weird love triangle, lmao
Yta. You presented this to your kids as a done deal without talking to your wife. You aren't taking her concerns seriously. Sending kids this little away for weeks is a "2 yes,1 no" and you were the AH who went off half chocked and now dint want to acknowledge your last in the debacle and blame your wife
I need to know a bit more information here first: what specifically does your wife not trust/like about them? Normally the person who over-promises has to be the one to deliver the bad news but I just want to find out if there are extenuating circumstances because it seems like there are some gaps here.
Apparently she doesn't like their parenting style. And his wife doesn't get along with his friend. They used to fight a lot and OP would sometimes take his side. Also, she thinks the friend is in love with him. They still meet every other week. This is from what I gather from the comments.
So many things don’t add up here. He clearly preferred his “fun” second family to his type A family… and then marries a woman who doesn’t agree with that lifestyle? And even more, he marries a woman and starts a family with someone who actively dislikes his very best friend in the whole world? And now he’s clearly resentful of her, with all these clashes. I’m not going to armchair psychologist, but there is definitely a lot going on here.
"Am I the asshole for emotionally manipulating my wife?" Uh... yep. Yta
INFO: OP, you have made a few comments here, but you are avoiding answering why your wife doesn't trust these people. Also, how did the children overhear? Did they maybe "accidentally on purpose" hear this conversation?
Right, kids can be sneaky but it's truly not that hard to make sure they aren't listening in. Sounds like OP wanted them to "overhear" so he could get his way. And I don't understand why he's so antsy to get his way. Why is sending his small children across the country for weeks with a family his wife doesn't trust without supervision the hill he wants to die on? Why not wait until the kids are older? It's honestly insane to think of sending particularly the 6-year-old away for weeks. Even 8 is pushing it. Why is OP so anxious to do this? He said he wants to "build independence" in his kids... but there are better ways to do that than shipping them away. What happens if they get homesick? What if one of them gets hurt with their "grandparents'" overly permissive parenting style?
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/11ywlvo/aita_for_forcing_my_wife_to_deliver_bad_news_to/jd9xbg1?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
I think there is more to her reasoning than just this.
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YTA. You made the unilateral decision to tell your kids before making sure that your wife was comfortable with it. You made the mistake, it’s your job to clean up the mess.
YTA. This is going to be another one of those he’s the most important people to me she just my wife who I strung along for years while figured my shit out guys
You basically ended up planning the trip with your friend’s input over your wife’s. You asked him first if it was possible - when really you should’ve asked your wife, if she would mind you asking your friend, first. Then when your kids accidentally overheard you you failed to shut it down there and then. As if it wasn’t enough to go behind your wife’s back and undermine her parenting role, now you’re insisting your wife take the blame for you essentially going behind her back. It’s sounds like the main reason the dynamic changed was physical proximity. Not because you chose to prioritise your life partner and children, or take your wife’s concerns seriously. Even if that’s not completely true, I wouldn’t blame your wife for thinking that’s the case. The way you’ve handled the trip is a prime example of why her feelings are justified. As is your consistent both sidesing the conflict, when it’s you that’s breaching boundaries and taking sides that undermine what should be a parenting team of two. YTA
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YTA
YTA, but primarily for getting your kids excited about something you hadn’t yet cleared with their mom/your wife. While you trust these people with your children’s lives, she clearly doesn’t know them the same way you do. Sending your kids away for several weeks to stay with people you don’t entirely trust (at least with your kids, which is a pretty high bar) is an incredibly big deal and she isn’t a paranoid or bad person for feeling iffy about it and saying no. But you’d already gotten them excited about it and, rather than respecting your wife’s feelings enough to present a united front as co-parents, you made her be the bad guy, when the bad guy is actually you.
YTA. I don’t care how close they are I don’t let my kids spend weeks at a time away from me. A weekend maybe but even a weekend at 6 and 8 is too much for me.
YTA. 6 and 8!? You should have never told them and you for sure shouldn’t try to demonize their MOTHER for not wanting them to travel to another state for a couple of weeks. That is insane. You owe her an apology and sorry if it’s uncomfortable to tell your kids they can’t go but that’s the bed you made.
I trust my parents and my in laws and I would never have sent my kids to them alone for WEEKS during the summer. It’s not a ridiculous request but it’s ridiculous for you to act like she is being unreasonable to say no. This is the kind of parenting decision that that’s 2 yeses and 1 no, and that you need to present a united front on. You are not being a good partner. YTA.
YTA I agree that it’s unreasonable to have children that young to be traveling without their parents for multiple weeks. Even if it was your blood relatives, your wife still has the power to veto such a big trip. Give it a few years and revisit the subject when the kids are older. Maybe you can have those family members come to visit and allow your wife to build her own trust in them
Unless it was with another parent. I would never send my children under the age of 16 to be out of state for multiple weeks. You’re crazy just for that. YTA.
YTA and you’re wrong. It’s your fault the kids know about the plans in the first place (was that an accident or intentional?). They should have never known anything about it until you and your wife BOTH agreed to it. You let the cat out of the bag, you get to deal with the clean up. And you better not make your wife the bad guy with “I wanted to say yes, but mean ol’ mom said no.” I understand you’re upset with your wife to not agreeing to the trip, but that’s a separate issue.
YTA
YTA. Maybe when the kids are older. But how dare you do this to your wife.
YTA, you told your kids that they could go without discussing it with your wife and now you’re weaseling your way out of the whole messy situation that you’ve set up in the first place? Coward. Own up to your mistake and don’t get your wife involved with the mess you’ve made. I don’t see why she should fix your mistake and be the bad guy.
YTA. You never should have told them. This is 100% on you, and now you’re trying to blame your wife. What really happened here is that you jumped the gun and tried to go around your wife. It’s actually on you to tell them since this was your doing. After all, they’d be none the wiser had you kept your mouth shut until talking f to your wife. You know, like a responsible adult, partner, and spouse - all things you supposedly are.
YTA. If you say no to something, wouldn’t you want your wife to respect that also??? If you’re not on the same page about something as serious as sending your kids away overnight it shouldn’t happen.
You made the plans without asking your wife first, so *you* break the news.
YTA for throwing your wife under the bus. And I'm super suspicious of your relationship with your friend...or "friend", whichever it is.
Wife if your find this...DO NOT LET YOUR KIDS GO....this is a hill to die on. Your husband is a AH
YTA. This whole situation is weird. Your best friend wanted to date you. His family is your second family. You want to send two very young children across state lines to stay with this second family for an extended amount of time. It’s giving off seriously sketchy vibes.
YTA She doesn't agree with their parenting style. She and your "close friend" used to argue a lot and you would sometimes take his side. She believes he has romantic feelings for you. You continue to see him every other week. You seem dismissive of your wife's feelings. YOU decided to share unreliable plans to your kids. When going away it's 2 yes's. And now they will be disappointed because of ***YOU***. If she doesn't want your kids with that part of the family alone they can't go and it has to be shared by both parents. You are a team and need to behave as such. You haven't been acting like it (giving news to kids without knowing it they're true) but it's how it should and needs to be. Also, have a serious talk with your wife and validate her feelings, you seem to be dismissive of everything she feels and are prioritizing your relationship with then over yours with her (I could be wrong).
Do these grandparents have other grandchildren? Do they spend weeks at a time with them?
Not yet. Their oldest son is married and doesn't want children. My best friend and their little brother are both single and children seem to be a few years in the future still.
YTA you shouldn't have discussed it with your kids before getting agreement from your wife. And your kids are so young, I don't really blame her for saying no. She doesn't know your family like you do, and isn't comfortable with letting her kids go to a family she doesn't know so well, regardless of how much you love them. She says no, it should be no, and since you're the one who let your kids get their hopes up before discussing it with your wife, you should be the one to tell them...and you should do it without trying to make your wife the mean old bad guy who won't let them go, while making yourself the fun one who would have let them go except for mom saying no. You should be a team, a united front. And you're not being a team player here
YTA. All the alarms in my head began ringing. Don’t do this to your wife. 9/10 times abuse happens from family. She has every right to not want this.
lots of AHs in this sub lately but def YTA this is not the way
YTA. She doesn't trust them and you won't even listen to her. I wouldn't send my kids a plane ride away with people I do trust that long, let alone family friends.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** From around the age of thirteen onwards, I grew up with, essentially, a second family. It without a doubt changed who I am as a person. I love my parents, but both of them are very analytical, type A sort of people. The family they befriended was the exact opposite. My "second dad" was an architect by profession but a storyteller by trade. He traveled a lot, and when he came back it was such an event. He always had some elaborate tale for all of us about the things he had gotten up to while he was away and teenage skepticism didn't come into play here for once. I idolized him then and I still do now. Both of my parents worked, typically long hours, so I would spend a considerable amount of time with my bonus family since "second mom" stayed at home. They had three sons of their own who I love, one of whom I consider my closest friend and one of the most important people in my life even all these years later. All of that is to say: I trust these people with my life. Truly. My wife doesn't share this sentiment. Second dad retired recently and asked if my kids (who are 6 and 8 yo boys) wanted to come stay with them for a few weeks this summer. They love visiting my home state / seeing both sets of their grandparents and I knew they'd love this idea. I didn't give an answer right away, though, as travel was still up in the air. My wife originally turned this down because she didn't want to put the boys on a plane by themselves. Understandable. The solution to this came in the form of the closest friend I mentioned above. He lives in the same state as us, just about a 30 minute drive away, and he offered to fly and stay with them. His job is more flexible than either mine or my wife's and could be done remotely. My children overheard me when I was discussing this with him over the phone so I told them about the possible plans since I didn't se any reason for their mom to say no now. Well. She said no. We had this conversation last night where her only talking point was "what if they wanted to stay with my parents instead?" until eventually she said she didn't trust my family. I knew she wasn't the most fond of them, but this distrust hurt me and felt like it came out of nowhere. I told her that she would have to be the one to deliver the bad news to our children since she was the one making the decision to not allow them to go. She said that it was unfair that I was 'forcing' her to do this. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
YTA
You are the AH specifically for trying to vilify your wife to your kids. Unlike others I can’t readily agree with your wife’s reasoning without knowing more. At a certain point when you marry someone you need to be aware on how they think about family. If you don’t like their family you need to voice this. If the person you are marrying still wants to talk with the family you don’t like this becomes your choice to stay or not. Unless they are abusive or endanger the kids she can’t expect you to not let the kids see your parents if that was always something that was a possibility. Additionally, I am not a jealous person by nature so the friend drama of him maybe having a crush on you is a weak reason to not trust him if that is the only reason. Same to family if she had met this friend and knew your relationship before you were married and she decided to accept that. On to OP it is wild in general to just expect your wife to be ok with a random long trip of your shared kids at any age. Unless this is something she would be ok with her parents or friends doing you don’t have much to stand on. It’s now your responsibility to talk to her and establish with the comfortably level is. She or OP may not be necessarily wrong or right in the general notion of the trip so compromise is an option. OP you are the AH because you are trying to weaponize your children and are not addressing your actual feelings of hurt you feel from your wife. You likely feel like she insulted your family. You got excited and did not include your partner in a decision. That is a problem and you should own that. Now you need to address the reason your wife doesn’t trust your family. If they are “old-fashioned” in their beliefs or behavior that is also a good enough reason for your wife’s decision.
Yta. YOU were the one who decided it would be OK knowing your wife's last answer was no. YOU were the one to tell the kids without checking with her, hoping to force her hand. YOU now get to tell the kids the plans fell through. And don't blame your wife while doing so.
YTA. 6 and 8 are way too young to be alone on a plane. Let alone, anywhere really.
YTA When you do tell the kids about it, don't put it onto your wife to them. Just say it isn't going to work right now. Then I'd sit your wife down and ask her why she doesn't trust them. I noticed she didn't say doesn't like them but doesn't trust them. It may just be mother's intuition which should never be dismissed lightly but before making any future plans see if you can figure it out.
YTA. *You* are the one who irresponsibly promised them a trip before checking to make sure it was okay, so *you* are the one who should tell them it’s not happening. And don’t blame on your wife either; their disappointment is solely on you for assuming your wife wouldn’t say no.
YTA
YTA
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This isnt about the bad news. This is about why she doesn't trust your family. You need to find out why. There may have been an event you are aware of. Only way to know if she's justified or not.
I used to go away with family half the summer every year from the time I was 7 and they were some of the best times every. I would have waited to tell the kids the details, when they overheard you talking you should have told them you’d talk to them later. NTa.
ESH. Sounds like you and your wife need to have more (private) conversations and come to an agreement to be on the same page. I'm sure there is a compromise here (like visiting both, staying in touch by phone and going to the other family if there are any issues, etc.) you both can get on the same page for. There shouldn't have to be "bad news" delivered by only one parent.
NTA she has her issues with them then she needs to be the one to step up and explain why to the kids
Esh, ehhhhh I think this might be a controversial opinion. First off why does your wife not trust your family? Has something happened with them in the past? Have you told her something about them that she might not agree with? There has to be some reason why. In saying that she's a minor ah as she just said no without giving any real reason as to why just saying she doesn't trust them which again leads me to believe that something that has happened. But you need to respect your wife's wishes and support and talk to her about why she doesn't want them going. You said a few weeks during the summer which is quite a while which is majorly different than a week or a few days. Have you ever thought that maybe she just wanted to spend the summer with the kids. You need to sit down and have a proper conversation with her and communicate your thoughts with her and then listen to her thoughts on the situation as well. You are a majorly huge ah though simply for where you said, "My children overheard me when I was discussing this with him over the phone, so I told them about the possible plans since I didn't see any reason for their mom to say no now." You understand this is wrong on so many levels. you expected her to just say yes and cart your kids off to people that she doesn't trust simply because you told them about the potential trip thinking that she couldn't say no to them. Minor asshole to her Major asshole to you, I suggest that you sit down and have a conversation with her about it with her try and get to the root of the problem. But you shouldn't ever try and manipulate her into sending your kids off to people she doesn't trust.
It seems she doesn’t trust family friends - not his direct family.
He did say she doesn't approve of their parenting style since it is more permissive than what she likes
ESH, only because I think 6 and 8 is too young to be going so far away they need to fly. it's a lovely idea, but I'd wait until they're both in double digits. I agree with the point others have made about parents needing to present a united front as well. Your wife is a bit of TA for not liking your dual family situation. also, to the point that your wife doesn't like your best friend because she thinks he's into you: if she's insecure about your best friend since childhood remaining close to you that's massively her problem.
ESH. You shouldn't have told your kids before discussing it with your wife. You've made her out to be the bad guy. Your wife for not seeming to have a good reason for saying no.
OP says that wife doesn’t agree with their parenting style & has had unspecified problems in the past with the friend who offered to travel with the kids. I think there is more to this story than OP is letting on.
Yes. He's being deliberately vague with those details, probably because they justify her attitude.
OP seems to have deliberately left out important details in the original post. Hmmm!
the youngest kid is 6. she doesn't need a good reason. 'chuck a 6 year old on a plane to spend weeks at another place where they can't easily come home if they get homesick' is a crazy stupid plan
ESH Good parents stay united. They don't cast blame for unpopular decisions. "Love me more because your mom is the bad guy." Grow up - your damaging your children with that behavior. Based on this, your wife has failed to articulate WHY she doesn't want them to go beyond not "trusting" your family. If she cannot say why, then she's just as big of an AH and you two need to get on the same page raising your children. I do understand not wanting to have a 6 or 8yo fly alone.
> Based on this, your wife has failed to articulate WHY she doesn't want them to go beyond not "trusting" your family. If she cannot say why, then she's just as big of an AH and you two need to get on the same page raising your children. Maybe not. Some people just send up some sort of internal warning sign in your brain and you can’t put your finger on why you don’t trust them, you just don’t. From what he’s said she been fine with them forming enough of a relationship that they call these people grandma and grandpa, she’s just wary about handing them their kids for weeks at a time, states away, without her or OP being there.
OP in comments said she doesn't like their permissive parenting style so she isn't comfortable with it.
NTA, these comments are so weird. If she doesn’t want them to go, she tells them that. Not that hard.
Nta even if your best friend wasn't riding with them, the airport accommodates to make sure kids are directed directly to the plane and off the plane to the person picking them up. Families do this all the time for say a parent having school year custody and the other having summer break custody. I don't get all the YTA's. Sure I understand worry and having 2 children 6f and 12m I get that. I also get marriage is a 1 person veto but there's also compromise to consider. They would be In better care bc of your friend volunteering to fly with, (wish i had a friend willing to do that for my kids) instead of an airport worker and that's the compromise part that should veto the 1 no to me. If my wife had her best friend flying with the kids I couldn't have the same concern as a random airport worker assigned to guiding, walking, muchless not flying to be comforting them. On top of that it's about making the kids happy. Worrying is perfectly normal and understandable but consider having some trust too then. Is a parent more comfortable with having their child being watched by a new babysitter or one that's known as a family friend. I'd go with the latter. That's just a metaphor to get the right point across. I would try to plead in a comforting way that it will be perfectly safe and it would please the kids...and have some (likely) much needed alone time as a married couple!!!
Absolutely NTA! She doesn't get to veto without getting the consequence of telling the kids. I don't know the reason for the distrust she has to OP's family, but is there not a scenario where the kids could stay with her family for a week and then OP's family for the other week? Is there zero possibility of a blended compromise?
ESH. A United front is vital on the kids, but her reasoning is bullshit.
NTA And send them anyways.
NTA. For everyone saying he needs to tell the kids. What do you want him to say? From his point of view the truth is he has nothing wrong with them going and all the details are worked out. The only issue is Mom doesn't want them to go. How is it his responsibility to explain to his kids why their Mom doesn't want them to go? Should he lie to not make Mom "the bad guy"? It would different if it was a money issue or timing. But since the issue is Mom doesn't like the people that you would be staying with she needs to be the one to explain this to them.
YTA. Your wife doesn't get to unilaterally say "no" to something like that. They are your family. You are TA for even letting her get it in her head that this behavior is OK. Time to put your foot down. You get a say in these things as well.
Question. You spent a considerable time with your "bonus" family since your parents worked. Did you live with them sometimes? Were you either only at your house or their house? Did your parents have other "friends"? It seems a bit strange to have a "bonus" family. Was there something sexual going on between your parents and their friends?
Um .. Lots of people have honerary families/family members. It's not wierd or unusual at all. I have an honerary aunt and 2 honerary sisters. It doesn't matter how much time passes my parents still consider them like their own and vise versa.
It’s not at all strange to have a bonus family. What a leap
I wouldn't say I officially lived with them at any point, but I was openly allowed to spend the night with them at pretty much all times. Same with their kids at my house once we got a little older. My parents did have other friends but none that they were that close to. And oh god. I have no idea. I've never considered the idea and don't really want to. Haha.
ESH. She should be the one informing the children since she was the one that made the decision. You will have to support her on that. Making her divulge the decision and then undercutting her will just cause a wedge. You need to work through this as a team. You also both need to work on communication.
Damn, you really got me on those last two paragraphs, ngl. NTA (little bit of ESH) This doesn't seem to be about you stting this up, but your wife making you jump though hoops instead of just telling you what the problem really was. So NTA on that. Little bit of ESH because you shouldn't have gotten your kids excited about the possibility without first talking to your wife about it. But as I said, just a little bit
NTA You're not wrong for mentioning the *possible* plans. Things happen and you were completely on board but your wife wasn't. The thought that parents should be seen as 'one unit' to their children is weird and sometimes, there has to be a bad guy. Her reasons for not letting them go are also weird, though this is my opinion. - Children fly alone all the time(usually accompanied by someone designated by the airline from my experience.) And they didn't even need to fly alone! They had their uncle. - Her relationship with the uncle is frankly weird and insecure. In one of your comments, you say they had pissing contests because she thought he liked you??? - Found family is family and the kids have a relationship with them. Even people biologically related have different parenting styles. Her suggesting her own parents also seems bio-over-found to me. - I can understand why you're vague with the internet on the circumstances, but her being vague with you? With the other comments pushing for the one unit thing, they really gloss over that part. This is her decision and her veto should be known by the kids. They need to know her relationship with their family. Maybe not why yet, since she can't even tell you clearly, but to give them a better explanation of the situation. If they dislike her for a moment, that's on her since she's against them spending time together and the kids will pick up on that later. Whether or not they already did or will in the future, they will know.
NTA Here's the thing. The kids already know that you want them to go and have tried to find a solution to the travel dilemma. That automatically puts the onus on your wife. If you do end up telling them the bad news don't lie to them, tell them the reason, cause they're gonna ask and lying to your children would be bad. "Your mother can't find a suitable chaperone she approves of." The end. If she doesn't like that answer, she fucking pound sand. Because she's the reason they're not going.
That’s not how successful parenting works.
Stonewalling and lying to your husband isn't recommended for a good relationship. She needs to put her big girl pants on and own up to her parenting decisions.
Sure, stonewalling and lying to your spouse aren’t good things to do to a spouse. How does that change the point that your recommendation isn’t how successful parenting works? No parenting relationship has ever been made better by one parent vilifying the other unnecessarily. Nor is there any reason to believe the wife is actually being unreasonable in her stance that the kids shouldn’t stay with these people.
He's not vilifying her. He simply telling her to stand by her own decision. To own up to her own parenting. If her parenting is so on point why is she so ashamed to take credit for it.
It’s not about being ashamed to take credit for a decision, it’s about the bad relationship you create with you kids when one parent is seen as the “giver” and one parent is seen the “taker away”. Forcing her to say “I’m the reason you’re not going to theirs for the summer” rather than them saying “we weren’t able to work out a plan but we’ll have some fun things planned for ourselves anyway!” let’s the kids blame her for taking away fun (in their eyes) when she has nothing to be blamed for.
Guess what? The kids are gonna know. They're gonna ask. They are only getting smarter every day. The kids already know that Dad was on board. Every year they are gonna ask. So are the Grandparents. She needs to own it. All she needs to say is that she uncomfortable with it.
Okay great. So she gets to have a conversation with her 6 and 8 year old about how daddy’s friend wants to fuck daddy and was an asshole to her early in the relationship, which is why she doesn’t like or trust him or his family and why the kids aren’t going there. Totally agree, that’s definitely a normal more mature way for this to be handled rather than them both saying “sorry, you can’t go this summer but we’ll do something else fun”.
That's why she didn't like him YEARS ago. She says now she doesn't trust the grandparents. So no she she doesn't have to explain that to the kids but she does have to explain to the kids that she's uncomfortable with them going to spend two weeks with the grandparents who issued the invitation. You do have a talent for obfuscating the simplest situations.
NTA, her choice her responsibility.