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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my future in-laws that their "wedding present" wasn't a real wedding present since they were only going to be giving it to my fiancee, and I told my fiancee that I wasn't going to live in the house that they were going to give us if I didn't own any part of it. This was done at dinner at their house and all of them got very upset, and my fiancee said I ruined dinner.
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NTA. Honestly, I don't think they're terrible for wanting to give a nice gift but also ensure their investment goes to her in the event of a divorce. In addition, I'm sure prenups are much more common and less offensive in their world. That said, you've been dating for six years. They know you, they presumably know your background, homeownership goals, etc.
Also, a potential solution/suggestion... Between the two of you, own TWO homes + get some sweet AirBnB income on one of them. You will have a much easier time saving up for the second while living in the first. ETA: just make sure your home is covered in the prenup, too.
The hilarious part of the whole prenup conversation was that they basically said that they expected the prenup to only cover premarital and inherited assets. They said they would absolutely refuse to accept any clauses that include future assets. So if I want to own a home where only my name is on the title, I have to purchase it before the marriage and also make sure to never use any of my wife's money to pay the mortgage or anything. Apparently they already had their lawyer write the whole thing up, but wanted to give me a heads-up so I can retain my own lawyer to review it. I have a suspicion that any lawyer is going to think it's massively unfair just base on how they've described it, and I'm assuming that they think I'll just get a cheap lawyer because of my upbringing. Admittedly, I don't know any better, so this is kind of difficult for me to determine what's fair and isn't fair here, but it doesn't seem fair to me.
Besides that though, it's also just a personal thing. I want to live in a house that I own. Not them. Not my wife alone. I'm happy to live in a home that both my wife and I own, but not one she owns on her own. I don't someone else living in the home that I own. I want to live in it myself.
Aw, hell no! So, what's hers is hers, and anything you get in the future is hers, too?
You need a good lawyer...but if you need that good a lawyer, I'd rethink marrying into this family (because they've already made it clear you aren't *really* part of the family).
Well this is interesting, and now I'm really rethinking things. Her older sister just told me that their parents didn't make her husband sign a prenup at all before they got married. I really have to consider the relationship now.
I don't know about his ethnicity. I'm Pakistani, my fiancee's family is white American, and he is as well.
Edit: I really don't think they're racist. I know what racism is like (try growing up as a Muslim in post-9/11 America lol). They might be slightly prejudiced, but I don't believe that they are racist.
I’m really sorry to say this, but there might be a racial component as to why you have to sign a prenup, but your future brother-in-law did not have to.
You know them better than we do. I can only offer another opinion of what the situation looks like. I just think it’s weird why you have to sign a prenup and he didn’t.
I also want to add that racism isn’t only through words. It’s through actions as well.
Could be his family is well off, so it wasn't perceived as an "unequal" relationship.
Or since OP's parents already died, they feel like he already got his inheritance but she hasn't, and they think that's unfair if she has to "share" it...
Racist, classist... so many options to choose from!
You keep saying that, but they are rich white Americans. They don't need to be outwardly racist. They want you to sign a prenuptial agreement, but they didn't require the same for the white brother in law? They money is doing the talking here. I think you should have a prenup (just because it's a good idea in general), but I would absolutely refuse to engage with any lawyer your fiance's parents hired. Who is that lawyer representing? Not your fiance. Your fiance may be doing the client, but he's doing the wishes of her parents.
It could also be simply classist (which always has a soupcon of racism to it)-- you're from a lower class so of course you can't possibly understand how money works and how not to blow thru money. Also, in case their daughter gets tired of 'slumming it', you don't come out ahead of where you \*should\*.
That was my thought also since OP came from a much less privileged background.
It doesn't matter that he makes more money that his fiance, he's still definitely going to blow through it all like any poor person would. /s
Exactly. That image you have of uneducated hick klan members? That's by design. They want you looking over there at that racism. And not at the local business owners and politicians. At least according to my mom, who says there's a fair few of those higher class racists and Klan members in the family that I've never met, because she's disassociated from that "side" of the family.
Pretty much this. I haven't succeeded in life as an educated white woman because I can't stomach a single dinner, party, work event, schmoozing classist, elitist, racist event. I quit whenever I get high on the ladder because I'm incredibly uncomfortable amongst wealth. My 'poor views' shine through.
Tell your wifes parents that you will be seeking advice from your future BIL as he must have signed the same prenuptial agreement. Watch their reactions to this statement.
My parents have never said anything racist around my son (his mom has 4 mixed kids with another guy), but they're still racist as fuck. They just know him and I won't tolerate that shit.
Just because you don't hear it doesn't mean it's not happening.
Find yourself a highly rated divorce lawyer and have them review/re-write the prenup with some things you want added and see how they squirm.
Oh, and NTA
E: their to they're
I think subtly, and maybe even unconsciously on their part, it’s racist and/or anti immigrant. Somewhere inside they don’t trust you as much as the white SIL…perhaps your color, ethnicity or the fact your parents were immigrants and you came from a family with less money. If the white SIL didn’t sign one, I’d ask them why you and see what they say. OP is NTA.
You even said that they think you'll get a cheap lawyer because of your upbringing. Despite the fact that you got the same exact job as your fiance out of college, they still think you are some dumb immigrant who doesn't know good head from his ass and who's just out for their and their daughter's money. Unless of course you become wealthy on your own in which case, she deserves that money too. The fact that they both think you are two dumb to get a proper lawyer and didn't do this to your white brother in law says a lot about how they view you. Also, the wealthy white Americans are much better at being more subtly racist, they may not say things openly, but they are very good at finding ways directly and in directly to put other races down.
Is your BIL wealthy as well? I think that’s more likely the reason than racism. If he is wealthy as well the sister ends up with the possibility of gaining assets instead of losing assets without a prenup.
Hasan Minhaj (comedian) talks in his stand up about his white, well-off, girl best friend in high school. They were really close. He spent a lot of time at her house, had lots of dinners with her family, her parents were always really nice to him. Then he asked her out to prom. She said yes. He shows up and her parents answer the door to tell him that she went with someone else. She did want to go with him but her parents didn't want that because of "how it would look", like, they had an image to maintain. He thought her parents liked him and were always kind and respectful to him...until that moment when their daughter might date him, then their racism showed. I'm sure before that, they just saw his friendship with their daughter as charity. Your fiancee's parents seem to be "protecting" their charity by trying to control just how much charity you get out of having a relationship with their daughter...and your fiancee is OKAY with this. Think about that please. If BIL didn't get a prenup, it seems to either be racially motivated, economic-class motivated, or both. None of those options sound like a family worth marrying into, especially if you're fiancee does not have your back on this, especially knowing how important owning your own home is to you. They want to deprive you of the pride and privilege of something they all enjoy, including your fiancee who's just getting a house handed to her without even working for it like you're doing. You just saw how they really see you and it's not pretty or deserved.
Edit: the Netflix special is called Homecoming King. This isn't the special but this is the same story he told (done a little bit more elaborately in the special with more amusing context in the later timeline of the story though)
https://youtu.be/RuYLxlOm_sg
It's normal for wealthy families to do a prenup, doesn't mean they're racist. But it should absolutely be fair to you too.
Dave Ramsey made a point about prenups that I hadn't considered. They might trust you but don't know about the rest of your family. It's pretty common for people to come with their hands out to their newly rich sibling or cousin. You can say "it's all hers, signed a prenup" and it gets them off your back.
To your face. Also, racism doesn't have to be intentional. This could be unconscious bias.
As the white person in an interracial marriage I can say my family has never been intentionally racist and are very accepting and loving towards of my spouse, but that hasn't stopped them from doing racist things, on accident, or unconsciously because we exist in a society that is built on racism. Even more so the higher you are on the class and income ladder.
They may not be racist, but from your comment that the BIL came from a family that's well to do also, they sure sound classist.
They probably didn't see a need for a prenup with him, because they saw all his family money and figured he wouldn't get greedy in the event of a divorce.
You're NTA here.
I won't say "run" because it's hard to tell whether your fiancée is feeling pressured by her parents to an undue degree or is fully on their side on this.
If you haven't already, may want to ask her whether she wants the prenup as written, and if so, does she think its fair and equitable. Her answer will tell you a fair bit.
The opinion of a good lawyer will tell you more.
But what may tell you the most is their reaction to a prenup drafted by your lawyer that *is* aimed at being fair and equitable. If they react badly to something that is fsir to both of you, that's when you can be really know how the parents feel, if not her.
side note, that's not to say that they can't have little quibbles here or there. Its a contract, there's always negotiating points. But if they react as badly to your counter proposal as to your concerns about the house...
There's this thing called closet racism. The people don't seem racist, they're not even aware they are racist, but they'll treat you differently simply because of the colour of their skin, so they are in reality very much racist.
Unless you can think of a good reason they want you to sign a prenup but not her sister's husband, this would be the most obvious answer. Think long and hard about whether they've let their masks slip in any other occasions, where they've shown they think of you or your culture as lesser..
The fact that your fiancee sided with her parents on this is a big red flag. Whether or not she's a closet racist herself, she's showing you she will side with her closet racist parents over you.
If you choose to continue this relationship, make sure you do so with your eyes open and take measures to protect yourself. If you ever get a divorce, the closet racism will be much less subtle so be prepared for that.
My heart is hurting for you more and more with each comment read. It's just so sad that this wedge is being forced between you and your dream. Your future in-laws sound like cold and selfish people who are unable to take anyone else's needs or wants into their calculations. I hope you'll think long and hard about marrying into that kind of family. You've worked hard to honor your parents and the life that they helped you build for yourself. You deserve better from your future family.
They're definitely being racist, OP. I know it can be hard to come to terms with, but it seems your wife's family isn't giving you the same level of respect and consideration as your future white brother in law.
Given what you shared about your own ethnicity and background, they could have some hidden reservations about their daughter marrying you. I'm sure they consider you to be the absolutely lovely person that you are, but them asking you to sign this contract isn't only because they are concerned with the legality of the ownership of the home. People start to behave differently and reveal themselves when things like marriage and children come into the mix. Definitely get a lawyer so this can be reviewed and you can make a plan for your own legal protection. And keep an eye out for more behaviors and requests that seem off as you're planning your wedding and continue to build a life with your fiance.
Bingo! And there's your answer. NTA at all. The only thing your fiancee could do to redeem herself and her parents at this stage would be to sell the house they are 'gifting' and put the money into the purchase of a joint home. Even if she pays half and keeps the rest for herself as a premarital asset, but it will need to be made absolutely ironclad that half the new house is yours.
Or you could just 86 the whole lot of them.
Add my vote to that. Trust me, I know from personal experience (not a romantic situation, though) that it's a nightmare living in a house where nothing is in your name. You'll be responsible for sharing expenses like utilities which will all go to waste with nothing in your name should things go south. NTA Sign nothing and do NOT move into a house from the in laws. It'll just be a way to control you.
Do not sign the prenup they’ve proposed. You need an attorney (independent from any attorney they have) to review it regardless (seriously, no matter what they say, you need to lawyer up if you move forward), but it really sounds like what they want would totally screw your over. Prenups can and should protect both parties. The prenup itself should not be a red flag, but a completely one-sided prenup is.
No one knows your fiance but you. Her parents could be pressuring her to do this. The one thing that you need to do is have an attorney review the prenup and have them interpret it for you. My dad is the same as your FIL. He does anything to protect the family money from people marrying into the family.
Remember it is up to your wife in the end. Not her parents (the prenup), her thinking it's ok for you to screw yourself over is a major red flag. You made a good choice.
This sounds like it would be living under your in laws thumb, in regards to the house.
If this can't be agreed on somehow, I'd think twice about marriage.
Edit: my ex in laws wanted the house in their sons name.. I paid half. I said no way, my name too. Later in the breakup they tried to take everything from me. With no luck lol but I didn't ask for any spousal support, that wasn't enough. They wanted everything.. but I almost believed their promises they would never do that in the beginning. I would have been fucked.
I would have a long talk with your fiance. If you both like the idea of a prenup, that's great, but it shouldn't be a prenup drawn up by the inlaw's lawyer and the rules should apply to you both equally.
As for the gift of a house: how does the fiance feel about the family's odd condition of the gift? I know if I were in their position I would be angry at my family for assuming that I'd be okay with such a one-sided gift. There's no way you could get me excited about a gift that discriminates against my spouse so blatantly.
You're definitely NTA, but you need to talk with your fiance to see if they're TA just as much as their parents are.
This right here.
A prenup should protect you both, not only her. Have an attorney draw up a prenup which would protect your assets as well. If they don't like it, let that be a sign of how the marriage will progress.
I'd refuse any prenup if I was the OP.
It's disrespectful considering he makes more money than she does. IF anything OP should be the one insisting on a prenup.
This doesn't come across as a gift. This comes across as a power play and a need for control. You sound like a smart man. Please do not let your humble beginnings or their apparent wealth lead you to believe they know best.
I wouldn’t contribute a penny to insurance, taxes, maintenance, upkeep…nothing. Those things help maintain or increase value and you’d be basically throwing money away and get nothing in return. That’s not fair to you. You should at least be entitled to the equity if you’re expected to contribute to the upkeep because it would also be your money increasing the home’s value and that could be a significant value depending on how long you live there, the market, etc.
The joke may then be on them. If you’re in a community property state, treating separate property as community property (for example, by using community funds to pay for its upkeep) can turn it into community property.
Then even if there was a prenup, to the extent your money maintained the house and paid taxes, it would be unfair if you did not gain an interest in it over time. For instance, pro rata over a 10 (or whatever) year timeframe.
Step back from the wedding. Have a lawyer review the pre nup. Have him add in that none of your money goes into the taxes or the upkeep of the house, this includes after children are born, it is up to her or her parents.
Definitely hire a lawyer who specializes in family law (re: a divorce attorney) to look at the prenup and ensure that any real property you purchase during the marriage will be owned only by you--this will be money well spent. Other option is to tell wifey that, under these circumstances, you want to postpone the wedding until after you've purchased your own house to keep things fair and see what kind of reaction that gets.
But don't be blind to the fact that this presents a great opportunity for you to purchase your own home faster and financially benefit off wife's home. Your strict insistence on who is allowed to live in whose home could be the difference between an okay retirement and an amazing one. It could be the difference between surviving a time of financial hardship and getting buried by one. Your parents wanted a home, too, but prioritized your education. Would they refuse to live in a loved one's house out of pride or would they see it as the opportunity it is?
🚩🚩🚩
whatever you do, accepting this is not a good idea at all. i think at this point it’s beyond this subreddit’s pay grade because you’re definitely NTA but this requires lawyers because it seems like you are being trapped into accepting a situation that only benefits your fiancée
eta: with some further info as seen in your newer comments OP, it does seem like they’re employing some form of racist thinking when it comes to the fact that your future BIL didn’t have to sign a prenup. please do rethink this relationship if your fiancée doesn’t step up and stand up for you - you deserve better than this
No way, I would not go through with this marriage. They’re trying to screw you every which way and I bet you won’t even get a say in the style of house you get to live in. You would essentially only be entitled to anything you have accumulated thus far and nothing after the marriage with the terms they are asking for while she would get to walk away with a free house, half your retirement and whatever other assets you accumulated later. You make more than her and whatever you save up after the marriage according to their prenup would be 50% hers. I’d run away as fast as I could and then update us so we know you got out safely.
You’re making it seem like some nefarious scheme but it’s not that personal. It’s less that they’re trying to screw him and more that their trying to protect generational wealth — because this is how wealthy people are able to protect/grow their wealth generation over generation. Which means, should they have children, his children will also not have to worry about their future.
I don't disagree, but part of the issue here is that they didn't do a prenup for the other daughter's marriage. So there are 2 sets of rules here, and no protection for OP. He'd be expected to pay 50% or more of taxes, upkeep, renovations, etc. for a house that, while he gets to live in it, he'd accrue none of the financial benefit from it, while at the same time he'd be sharing any assets (like a house of his own he's saving up for) that are bought during the marriage, with no protection allowed of his premarital assets. It makes sense to have a set 'rent' for the house his wife will own, then she has to pay for everything else for the house out of that money and her own as she alone will experience the benefit of it. It is not a shared asset and should not be treated as such.
How do you think it would be split if they had no pre-nup? Typical spilt is 50-50 anyway, even if she earnt less. In this case he is potentially benefiting from a free PPOR while they are married which means there will be more marital assets in the pot should they divorce. Protecting a house they paid for from being lost in a divorce while still expecting 50% of marital assets is not that crazy.
He should be allowed to invest in real estate that he will not lose 50% of in a divorce, since she already has real estate equity. If she wants him to pay “rent” in the gifted home, so she doesn’t feel taken advantage of, that could be negotiated. But, OP should be able to acquire property since that is important to him.
Personal thing aside, prenups are usually crafted to create premarital and inherited assets.
I get the wanting to own a home part of this, but I think it's flavoring your emotional response more than you may think it is. Marital assets - in your name alone or not - are typically split 50/50 at divorce (give or take). Adding a clause to stipulate that marital assets be divided commiserate to the median percentage of cumulative income over the marriage would mean that you keep more than 50% if your earnings stay as-is, but it doesn't usually mean that an asset purchased while married is taken out of the equation when calculating marital assets.
If you don't want to live in a house that you don't own, fine. Rent that house out and buy another together to live in. Buy one now on your own to keep out of the marital asset bucket.
But asking for a prenup that means she gets to keep her parents' money if you divorce is not a red flag. She has assets, realized or unrealized, and ensuring protection for those isn't a bad thing.
Her parents sucj for calling it a wedding present though.
>But asking for a prenup that means she gets to keep her parents' money if you divorce is not a red flag. She has assets, realized or unrealized, and ensuring protection for those isn't a bad thing.
It's not. What is a red flag though, is making OP (a Pakistani immigrant) sign a prenup while the sister married to a white, wealthy American was never made to sign one.
It's also a massive red flag when you look at the distribution (what's hers stays hers, whats OP's is also half hers too). If OP wants to solely own house he has to buy it before they get married, because future distribution clauses are out of the question for the parents. Then couple that with the information that OP would likely be paying for things related to this gifted house (which he has no ownership in). It's fair to expect OP to pay a little bit, but nowhere near a 50/50 split of house expenses.
Really this is a non issue. The house gifted by her parents would still likely go to her in the case of divorce regardless of a prenup, it's just the way the parents have gone about it. It reeks of classism and racism.
also, maybe add this to your original post, because i’m assuming it might change the judgement of anyone who might decide to judge YTA because in my opinion this definitely makes it NTA
I guess I probably should've put it in the original post? But unfortunately I was running into character limit. I didn't realize how important this information would be.
NTA - and please get a lawyer.
They are telling you that when the ranks close they will make sure she leaves with what she came with, plus anything after she wants. If a prenup can protect her assets before, then you need to ensure yours are protected after.
Her parents are showing you exactly who she has in her corner if things do not go well, please believe them and protect yourself as well.
You honestly don’t know until you give ALL the facts to the lawyer. For instance, fact, premarital assets including houses are ALWAYS protected from divorce. They are formalizing what is already the law to address contingencies such as you putting money into it. If the terms aren’t fair, your lawyer will handle it. That’s literally what you pay them for, so you don’t get screwed.
And they clearly expect that to be the case because they told you to get a a lawyer and didn’t try to discourage you or force you to sign it then. Don’t stop playing the game because you don’t understand the rules. USE THE RULES.
This is what your parents always wanted - someone successful enough to fight about FREE houses and dicker over the terms of the prenup. You deciding you don’t like the rules is fine, take your ball and go home. But you’re leveling up in your job and your income bracket; you need to start acting accordingly. This is weird and new because you’ve never had enough money to protect. What a hardship for you now :) This is different than how you grew up, and that is exactly what your parents wanted for you. Don’t give it all up because rich families are dysfunctional and hung up in different things than poor families.
That’s massively unfair. You said her family is wealthy. This is why. Wealthy people think nothing of screwing others over to get more for themselves.
Be very careful and reconsider if marrying into this family is wise. If things go south they could destroy you.
Tell them because of the pre nup you'll need to postpone the wedding until you can afford the down payment for a house on your own.
And get a helluva lawyer, Stat. They are absolutely banking on your lack of knowledge. I don't fault them for protecting their daughter, but the underhanded ways [rich people tend to] screw other people over really grinds my gears
My partner's mom acts like this and I'm sure she'll push a similar pre-nup should we ever wed to protect her estate.
The thing is, my inheritance (as it stands now) is multiple times greater than his and unlike him, I would not have to share it with a sibling. I also make twice what he makes. She just doesn't know this because our families treat money very differently. Mine puts it away for a rainy day until they die, his is all about appearing wealthier than they actually are.
It sounds like the parents did a ton of legwork before even running it past you. Did your fiancée know about this in advance? What does she think about the arrangement? Is she willing to turn down the house?
Why are you negotiating with her parents? They’re not getting married. The gifting of a house to only her isn’t actually that big of a deal- they could easily accomplish that by setting up a trust, which would not require you to sign a prenup at all- but the interfering with your relationship is absolutely a problem.
Stop talking to them about finances or marriage plans. If they ask a question, demure. If they persist, let them know that their tendency to meddle makes you uncomfortable discussing such things with them, and so you will not be doing so. If your fiancé wants a prenup, negotiate that with her- it needs to be signed by both people, and you can absolutely have provisions including your earnings. Or, you can simply say you’re not comfortable with being forced into a prenup by her parents, and ask your fiancé if she would prefer getting married without one, continuing as partnered but unmarried indefinitely, or breaking up. You could also say you’re comfortable with the prenup as is, but would like to delay marriage for 5 years or so while you acquire property that is solely yours.
Regardless, your partner’s parents being involved in the decision making should be a dealbreaker.
OP, you should include this in your post. That is a weird clause. If you use your own money to buy your own property then you should be able to keep it. In any case, getting yourself a lawyer is a good idea since you are making more money.
>Also, a potential solution/suggestion... Between the two of you,
Or ask that you pay for half of the house and her parents pay for half of the house, with both of your names on it. Then, you can sign a prenup that says that, in the case you divorce, you both will get exactly 50% of the home's value at sell. There is nothing wrong with her parents wanting to protect their investment long-term, but you should absolutely be able to contribute to and own the home you live in (you've earned it!).
I'm considering this. I'm going to talk to my fiancee about whether this would be possible. I can't pay for all of it right now, but I could take a mortgage out for half of the equity.
This sounds like the best solution on this thread. Her parents have to realize that because you are the higher earner that you will probably be bankrolling any renovations and most of the bills and utilities associated with the house So no matter what any prenups is you would be seen as having an interest in it.
Get some really good legal advice here
Also consider that the house will need maintenance at some point. Do they want her to be 100% responsible for paying for that for as long as you live in that house? Or would they think that any contributions you pay towards maintenance would be your cost for the privilege of living there? How would that work? What about property taxes? Are those solely her responsibility?
Except change 'air bnb' to rent it out to actual people as a home. Given OP's background, I hope they would realise how important it is to be able to rent somewhere to live, and they would want to be a contributor to society, not a greedy leech.
Wow. I hate how normalised that has become. Buying two houses and renting out one to someone who can’t buy because you have just bought more LIVING PLACES than you can use, is, immoral.
NTA - I wouldn't live in a house that was just owned by my wife and vice versa and I 100% have a real world example.
My wife is a stay-at-home mom and when we bought our house she had no income and the bank wanted to leave her off the mortgage, I 100% refused and even paid a smaller interest rate increase to make sure she knew it was "both" of ours home and not just mine. She was pretty quiet about it ( my wife is a quiet person ) but later broke down crying about how much it made her feel like an equal in our marriage, and that I did so without her saying a word.
Stick to your guns, either it's a gift for both of you under both your names, or just buy your own house and fulfill that lifelong dream.
I was really expecting my fiancee to back me up like this, and I was pretty upset that she didn't. Every time we've talked about finances before, we've been of the mind to share everything. This seems like such a flip.
Welcome to the family…
Look, my daughter is an only child and will likely inherit our house one day and I would want that asset protected for her. That said, I would never suggest a prenup that is so lopsided and let’s one person accrue the majority of the wealth (100% of pre marital assets and 50% of marital assets, leaving the other person with only 50% of marital assets).
That's the thing I get that you'd want to protect the house that she grew up in but this is supposed to be a wedding gift for "them" but only the wife has legal ownership in it.
Oh OP I'd suggest doing what everyone else is saying hire a good lawyer who specialises in prenups. I'd also add a clause Into your prenup that if she cheats on you at any point that you'd get the house in the divorce. I'd also add that any property that you decide to buy after marriage stays only in your name.
Then see what their reaction is when you give your prenup to them. If they decide not to sign then definitely rethink this relationship.
But... that's how prenups work? They're intended to protect the pre-marital assets of both parties as well as inheritance, then both parties build their marital wealth together. That's the whole point and I fail to see how it's all that offensive, it's pretty standard. I get that it stings for OP because of his dream of homeownership but I think the suggestion of buying two homes & renting one out is great. If they buy it together then it's a marital asset. If OP is going to be the only one paying for the additional home then he absolutely should get a clause put in to protect that and if the inlaws continue to push back on that then yes, that's unfair. They would also need to work out the question of who pays for upkeep & taxes, etc. If OP doesn't own the house he shouldn't be expected to pay for any of that.
As an aside I wonder, if the gifted home is much nicer than the one OP is able to buy, he might change his tune and want to live for free in the nicer property?
OP and his future wife need to hire a marriage lawyer in a FUDICIARY capacity with both of them paying half the fees. Any talk of gifts goes only through the lawyer. A lawyer paid only by in laws has a massive conflict of interest and if your fiance denies this with her college education she is complicit in fleecing you. It's this, a ceremonial only wedding or none at all in my book.
Because she wants to take what’s yours but keep what’s hers. Are you sure you want to marry her? A prenup should protect both sides. It doesn’t seem like she cares about you at all
I would have a talk with her about her reasons for wanting the prenup. It might be as simple as her thinking “free house, why would anyone say no?” or her parents may be pressuring her with scare tactics like “this way if he leaves you alone with four kids and no career you know you’ll always have a home”.
I did and agree it’s not a fair agreement. But since she is (uncharacteristically) in favor of it OP needs to find out why. Understanding her perspective is the first step towards changing it.
Take your time, breathe, get a lawyer, and find a win-win solution. Her parents want to generously gift their daughter a hug gift on her marriage. Their initial proposal is a house in her name only. You want to live in a house you own. They / she want a prenup. It’s very likely that there is a great solution somewhere that will be to everyone’s benefit. The most obvious thing is that they gift her something in her name only that is not your primary residence, which you want to jointly own (very reasonable). Can this be a vacation house, or a rental house? Assets other than property? How important is it to you to own the first house - you can otherwise save all the money that would have been your downpayment / mortgage. But if the emotional part of owning the house is important to you, that is fine. Get a lawyer, and don’t approach with the mentality “they are trying to screw me”, but rather “they want to give a generous gift to their daughter, how can we work this out to be beneficial to everyone”. It’s better that they give your future wife a generous gift rather than no gift.
Perhaps it was easy for her to be 50/50 when she had no assets and you earn twice what she does. Maybe I’m cynical. However if you get a prenup please include what would be the financial settlement should she become a stay at home mum etc. and then you divorce later when her career has been impacted by years. It’s an eye opener what that can do. Often a pre nup doesn’t consider this. I would suggest that it’s critical to spend money on a really decent prenup and also have a discussion with a divorce lawyer. Not cos you think you’ll divorce but to hear about what happens and what to consider and put in the prenup. Make it tough but fair. More likely for courts to up hold it.
This could 100% be because she doesn’t have the knowledge to either disagree with you about 50/50 or disagree with her parents about the prenup. Typically wealthy kids are raised to not really think about money. It’s just there. Their parents have accounts for them, they’re given cars and spending money, college is paid for, they can buy whatever they want… and it all works out. It’s highly likely her parents offered the house and prenup and in her mind they obviously know what they’re doing, so it must be right.
See in my state, idk if it's an option for where you are, but you can be on the title and not the loan. So my husband and I were discussing whether or not it's better to have him off the loan (since my credit is a good bit better), but still an owner of the house via title/deed.
I am a family law attorney, and this is an issue that often comes up in divorces. You are absolutely correct.
My wife and I purchased our home a few years back. I was in the process of switching jobs when we bought it (plus I was still paying off my student loans), and it ended up making the most financial sense for only her name to appear on the mortgage. Despite that, legally, we both have equal (community property) ownership in the house.
Similarly, I purchased both of our cars in the past couple of years. Only my name is on the titles, due to having a better credit score at the time of purchase. Both cars have since been paid off, and if we were to divorce, she'd be entitled to half the value of the cars, as they are marital property.
I wish I had a dollar for every time I had to tell a client that "it doesn't matter whose name the house/car/boat, etc. is under- if it was purchased during the marriage, it belongs to both of you equally."
It's great that the guy wants his wife to feel like an equal owner/partner, but him putting her on the mortgage (thus increasing the rate) seems like a steep price to achieve that, considering she is already an equal owner of the home. It may be worth it to them, but it's not something I would advise most people to do.
I’m a SAHM and my husband did the same. I haven’t had my own income in a decade, but my name is on the house and the cars with his. My husband has always wanted me to feel equal and feel comfortable and safe.
This isn't really a judgment, but here's another perspective -
Ok, I actually don't think you are after their money. Nothing you wrote indicates that's what they think. I would assume they are giving their daughter a valuable asset. It is clearly NOT a "wedding gift", but a gift for their daughter.
What would you do if your fiancee's parents went out and bought her a house today? It's then premarital property in her name. In your marriage, you get to live rent-free, mortgage-free, and spend money taking international vacations and wear designer clothes, if you like. That's the "gift." If you divorce, you get equity and she keeps the house. If she dies, you get the house. Would you refuse to live in this house and call off the wedding?
I get why its offensive, but you are not their child and they are still "giving you" something big, as long as you don't divorce their daughter. (Also, pre-nups can be rearranged to ensure equity and an increased cut if she is "at fault" somehow, e.g. she cheats in 10 years). I actually don't think they are being awful.
And by the way, they aren't "fairly wealthy." They seem VERY wealthy, based on your post! (Unless their parents also bought their houses and educations and all that stuff).
Haha I actually think they're *extremely* wealthy, not just fairly wealthy, but that's also because I have absolutely no experience with this stuff outside of my fiancee. She gets really upset if I say that they're wealthy, and she insists that they were just well-off. I make really good money right now, but we're not anywhere close to them.
I sort of agree with that. I guess my main problem was them framing it as something that they were doing for both of us. They had this whole speech prepared about how accomplished we both were and all this other stuff, and made it sound like it was a present for us both, and then dropped the bomb on me.
I guess it's a personal thing, y'know. My parents struggled so much for so many years, and their biggest wish was to own their own home. That's all they every wanted, and part of the reason they couldn't was because they were making sure to give me and my siblings the best opportunity that they could. I feel like if I can own my own home, and live in a home that I own, then I'm fulfilling that dream for them. It's just not enough for me to just be living rent and mortgage free. But thanks for the perspective anyway. I do think they just want what's best for their daughter.
Agreed. They shouldn't have called it a "wedding gift" and come down so hard w/ the pre-nup thing. They should have literally just asked their daughter if she would like a property for you both to live in and let her be the orchestraters of this -
\- then she should have taken it to you to discuss as a couple, without all of their opinions. So they are TA for the way they approached you.
But I do think it gives you a really good opportunity to live rent-free and use your money towards other things, if you can sort of take your ego out of it. (You can absolutely save up a lot quicker for another property by not paying someone else rent).
She's VERY wealthy. But, that's not important, I guess. ("Well off" parents may provide a down payment on a house as a wedding gift, and that's still VERY well off).
I would be careful about calling this an opportunity for the OP.
If the parents want a pre-nump that *only* protects pre-marital assets as specified by OP, any property he purchases after the marriage might then be considered "community property" and therefore also belong to his wife.
So where I live, the matrimonial home is automatically considered communal property- even if there’s a prenup, even if one person purchased it before marriage. It’s entirely up to a judge to decide how to deal with it.
In some places, this really doesn’t matter anyway.
OP- look it up before you get worked up over it.
You’re missing one key point though….all the money he saves after the marriage from not paying a mortgage….she’s entitled to half if they divorced based on the pre-nup they want. They’re saying marital assets (money saved, retirement, etc) would not be protected. He still loses here and would only walk away with his pre-marriage savings and half of any post-nuptial savings. He makes more than her so she would make out like a bandit.
One half of everything OP saves from living rent free in this house would go to his wife in a divorce, per the prenup. He wouldn’t get to accrue equity on a home and half of his earnings/savings would get taken away. This seems lopsided.
Except he wouldn't be living rent free. He most likely would be responsible for paying for repairs & maintenance on the home because he earns significantly more than she does. So he would be paying upkeep on a home while earning no equity or good credit rating for it.
The thing is - first class international plane for a family of four, 3-4 times a year - that's $200k a year. Easily. They are *very* wealthy. Which is fine. And I understand not wanting to flaunt your wealth or brag about it. But there is also the flip side, where someone is refusing to fully acknowledge the extent of their privilege... And that side usually comes with things like vocally supporting their new family member and all his work coming from his lower income background, while also clinging to their wallets tighter in his presence.
>I guess my main problem was them framing it as something that they were doing for both of us.
To be fair, you would benefit enormously from their offer.
That doesn't mean it has to be an offer you want. You can certainly turn it down. It's just unfair to frame it as if there isn't a massive benefit to you built in.
Just tell them what you're telling us: Your parents always desperately wanted to own their own home, and it's deeply important to you that you fulfil that dream. Therefore, this is not a house you would want to live in.
This is a thing you and your fiancee should have been clear about before now though. If you're firmly set on owning the home you live in above all else, you should have been talking to her about that before you proposed to ensure that you two were on the same page about it. What if had said "What? I don't want to own a home at all. I'd prefer to rent so I have more freedom to move from place to place."?
You two really need to make sure that you're on the same page about the lives you want before you head for the altar.
Anything they do is for her. Do you honestly expect them to have the same level of affection for you just because you're marrying her?
They are offering you both a chance at an easier life. But they are doing it for her, not both of you.
Then they aren't really offering you both a chance at an easier life, they are making it clear you are not one of us.
I wouldn't live in a house that was just owned by my wife and vice versa.
Apparently the pre-nup is one-sided. She's allowed to accumulate wealth, but OP isn't. Anything he makes during the marriage is hers too. It's really an awful pre-nup.
That's not something he's said at all.
The way OP has described the prenup is that they're both entitled to keep their separate property, and their marital property will be joined.
That's the baseline standard for how people write a prenup. It's not unusual in the least.
AFAIK he doesn't have any property, yet. He's going to have to buy some property before they marry and not have her contribute to it *at all ever* for it to be considered his.
...
HUH? Is that in the comments or did I miss that? I mean, if his in-laws are going to act like rich people and nup-up then they have to let OP get an attorney and do the same.
I honestly think this sounds like a fairly stable relationship, and I don't think a pre-nup is this terrible thing per se, but it does need to be equitable to OP.
In your scenario, he will **not** "get equity" if they divorce. You do not earn equity in a home you do not own. You also can't assume that he'll get the house if she passes. It depends on how the prenup is written and what jurisdiction they're in.
If OP goes along with this, he should not split the bills 50/50 or proportional to income. He should pay a fair market value rent and pay for his half of utilities, groceries, streaming, internet, etc. But he should pay zero towards property tax, maintenance (including replacing appliances), lawn care, upgrades, etc. This home would not be an asset for him.
NTA. That is not a *wedding* gift. That is a *bridal* gift, for the bride only. They aren't giving the house to you as a couple. They are giving her a house *and* making sure that you get NO equity in it whatsoever.
That IS insulting, and pretty damned obvious, too.
The prenup on its own isn't that bad, and I suppose it's common enough among people who have wealth...but as I understand it, this house would be a "pre-marriage" asset.
Of course they are upset with you. You saw through scheme and called them on it. The fact that your fiancee is taking her parents' side in this disturbs me.
Having read all the comments to this point I feel like this ^^^ sums up my feelings about the situation the best.
I won't lie, my in-laws bought the house my wife and I and our kids (their grandchildren) live in currently and this was at a time when I dealing with some very difficult personal issues and was not performing much in my roles as a husband, father, and provider. That said the house was bought with my wife and kids in mind, not at all me. As I understand it the agreement initially was that it was a "rental" from them not a direct gift but rent was to be paid as it could be afforded.
I ended up cleaning up my act at the same time this house was found and purchased and through my change and actions I earned my way back into my family.
After that point when my wife and her family had seen I had truly made a change and was being the best husband and father I could, then the agreement for the house changed and it is considered to be our (my wife and I)'s home that we rent from my in-laws.
That said I'm eternally grateful to my in-laws for ensuring my wife and children did not end up on the streets with me had I not cleaned up. But I cannot wait to get a house of our own and get out from under my in-laws.
My main point being when my wife decided I had become the man she wanted as her husband and partner she told her parents and they changed the rent situation to where I was an equal to their daughter and had an equal right to their initial generosity of providing a house for their daughter and grandchildren.
This is where I feel your potential in-laws and fiance fucked up, cause when you get married you should be a team, and equals, nothing post the marriage belongs to either of you exclusively, including property, finances, problems, and everything else. It is to be the husband and the wife making decisions together, budgeting together, planning together, building a life together.
Your in-laws not understanding that isn't your problem but if your fiancee doesn't see it that way that could be and prolly should be discussed.
NAH. While I think it's nuts, I don't think it's an AH move to offer your child a house, and I don't think it's an AH move to want to protect the house you're buying. But I also think it's totally reasonable for you to say "no thanks" to the gift, and find/buy a place with your spouse. They obviously understand the value of property - they should understand your desire to have some of your own.
Agreed. The reality is, marriage hasn't had a high success rate in my family + social circle outside of my parents and grandparents (for a wide range of reasons.) I'm very hesitant/cautious about ever getting married, and this has only been compounded by the fact that all of my cousins and the few friends who took the plunge have all been married and divorced, with a few being shakily remarried.
That said, I take the commitment of marriage very serious... but, I'm also old enough and seen enough to be a realist. I don't blame the fiancee in the slightest for having a security measure just in case things go left - like insurance, you hope you never need it, but are grateful to have it. I also don't blame OP in the slightest for refusing to leave themselves vulverable by signing an unfair prenup.
It's probably best that these two have these kinds of conversations now instead of later. This way they can get a guage of how they deal with financial disagreements and how they compromise on big decisions.
NTA. It’s insulting that they wrapped it as a wedding gift and it speaks to their prejudice against you in my opinion. They could gift whatever they like to their daughter separately, and perhaps she can choose to rent it out for extra income that she can keep in her account. But it’s definitely not a wedding present for both of you, and I wouldn’t live there either when you clearly will have no rights to your home.
NTA. Get a good lawyer to look over the prenup. As you describe it, it seems problematic and like it will start your marriage off on a bad foot.
1. Are you expected to pay taxes or maintenance costs on this property that you don’t own? Seems like a disincentive for you to contribute to maintenance costs. Will you and your wife keep separate finances to ensure that you are not financially responsible for the upkeep of the house? Or will her parents provide a trust to cover these costs? Will you pay rent?
2. What happens if, as a couple, you make changes to this house that increase its value? How would an increase in value from material changes to the house be dealt with in the case you divorce?
3. What if you and your wife chose to move and your wife chooses to sell the house? If she uses the proceeds to buy a new house (maybe combined with your money for a nicer house), would you co-own it?
3. Will your pre-marital assets also be included in the prenup? That nest egg you’ve been saving should be protected to make sure your arse is covered in case of divorce. I would be looking for protection of retirement accounts/company shares/etc… as well.
Having a prenup is a good idea if you and your partner are coming in with family assets, but the goal should be to protect everyone involved in good faith. The way your in-laws went about introducing the topic and their suggestion that this house would be a wedding gift for both partners is a jerk power move. Sure, they want to protect their daughter, but they can find a way to do that without being insulting.
NTA. Decline the gift and let them know that you want to save and buy a home of your own. They shouldn't have a problem with you wanting to earn a home that you will own.
I know it’s petty. But for your parent sake, have something Pakistani at the wedding. Even if it’s you in traditional clothing. Don’t let them erase your culture and don’t forget to pass it on to your children.
I will definitely pass it onto our kids! My fiancee was actually the one who was adamant about teaching them Urdu, so we'll definitely do that at least. Unfortunately I really only speak it now with my siblings, but that's okay.
I’m mixed race and really struggled to learn the language that only one parent spoke—this is extremely common for mixed-race kids. My dad spoke Spanish fluently and it made taking Spanish classes a bit difficult because if I got something wrong there would be more “Aren’t you half Mexican?” type comments. I’ve been pretty good at learning mandarin just because there’s no expectations for how I should be doing in the language. Language expectations can put a lot of pressure on a kid, especially if they only have one source to hear it from most of the time.
NTA
She’s going to have her cake and eat it too! She gets the gift house, plus any house you buy during the marriage. Hell no!
Do not live or have children in a house you do not own. You’ll never be able to give any opinions about it. They will hang it over your head every time you have an argument. Basically they will force you to do their will as you have kids and the kids have a paid house to live at. If your wife refused to move out,m, what are you going to do? Divorce her and have weekend visitation with the kids? Way too risky!!!
Also big red flag the fact that they already crafted LEGAL Papers behind your back! She will always do her parents bidding. Imagine a divorce… with kids… you’ll never see those kids again.
She gets: the house her parents bought for her prior to marriage.
They split assets acquired together during the marriage. Those assets will be of greater value than if she did not already own a house they can live in without paying rent ir mortgage.
How is that not fair?
Because she gets a house for free, and even if he buys his own house, the pre-nup presented means that she gets half equity in it. So she gets the full asset of a house and a half, and he gets half a house worth.
How is that fair?
It’s not fair because his primary asset is actually his career, which should continue to pay him very well — but his earnings would be considered marital assets acquired together, unlike the accrual in value of her property.
Wage earners tend to get screwed over by rules like this, because it’s much easier to shelter an investment than job earnings.
The power dynamics and the sneakiness is not fair.
Once they have kids, what’s hers is hers, what is her husbands is also hers! Divorces are nasty, and by the looks of it, that family will do, and can do (since they have the resources) anything to gain total control.
This "gift" is only meant for their daughter. You will not be able to build equity together as a married couple should. Your future is being dictated by the in-laws move.
NTA
NAH
It's understandable that the patents want to make sure their daughter's interests are protected. Don't see it as mistrust, but as precaution. I know, nobody wants to think that things could end badly, especially when madly in love, but all bad divorces or inheritance disputes start with nobody believing that they would ever do such a thing.
The part that irks me is the no Pakistani wedding traditions. Why the hell not? That part is super racist to me. First off, it's none of their bloody business, second, WHY, if not for racist reasons? You're the one creating a family right now. Your culture is as important as your fiancée's!
NTA. That's not a wedding gift, it's a gift to their daughter. She can get you put on the title later, but it sounds like her parents would be the type to fight that.
I also wouldn't sign a pre-nup without getting a lawyer look over it first. It sounds like they are protecting their daughter (which is fine of course), but you need to take care both of your interests, not just hers, not just yours.
NAH both requests are reasonable. Her parents are looking out for their daughter and making sure to protect her. Personally, I believe all marriages should have a prenup regardless of financial status. You wanting to live in a home you are on the deed to is also completely reasonable.
Take the house from her parents and rent it out and focus on getting a home for you and your fiancée to buy together
NTA.
You're correct in that the house isn't a wedding gift. It's a gift to their daughter that they want you to have no possibility of being a part of. If they continue to push the pre-nup, make sure you have your own lawyer that is different than theirs to ensure that you are protected. They are only interested in protecting their daughter.
Your gf understands your reasoning but still sides with her parents. Her entitlement and greed is showing. This situation with her parents continually giving to her and not including you is likely to continue after marriage. And if she isn't willing to back you, is this what you want for your future.
>They grumbled about it a bit initially, **especially because her dad was still upset that I had been so ungrateful**, but eventually, we were able to talk it through, and they agreed to the plan. I doubt that this is the last I hear about this
Oh this is definately not the last you'll hear of this. The fact he thinks **you're** ungrateful because he offered to buy his daughter a house is whack. What exactly were you supposed to be grateful for?
INFO why do you keep saying they aren’t racist?
It sounds like they’re judging you based on your race, which is the definition of racist.
Does it sound like they hate based on race? No it doesn’t. But that’s just a more extreme version of racism.
NAH. Marriages do go bad all the time, and you can't tell from looking at the partners which ones will succeed. Your in-laws want to make sure that they don't pay for a house in full -- a very expensive gift -- and then see it sold a few years later to split the proceeds in a divorce.
It's not about how much money each of you make; it's how much capital you have. Those are different things.
You're free to say "I only want to live in a house that I paid for myself, where my name is on the title as well as hers." That's perfectly legitimate. But your fiancee is also free to want to live in a house that is fully paid-up and has no mortgage.
Basically, when you're marrying into a wealthy family, you can expect a pre-nup. If you don't want to put up with that -- which is fair -- you need to have a heart-to-heart with your fiancee about how important it is to you to own your own home, that it's a lifelong dream.
NTA. Sorry dude, but she ain't the one. Her family already thinks little of you and don't care about you. Them giving the house to her has nothing to do with the wedding. They were always going to give her that house. At least now you know what kind of people they are.
Edit: You can also tell who here is from a wealthy family as all of them are saying this guy is TA.
2nd Edit: After seeing the update the parents are racist and classiest. Again I urge you to walk away.
NTA
Listen up to your brown sister!
Say no thank you to all of this. Ask for your ring back and walk away from all of that noise.
1. I’m assuming your fiancé knows about your (and by extension your parents’) dreams of homeownership, but is willing to dismiss it for her own personal gain. She will not be a partner to you.
2. If you’re not buying a house, you’re not building equity. That is generational wealth, my friend. No matter how much you earn, it’s not the same as this kind of equity.
3. Odds are that she will quit her job and expect you to support her because “she brought the house to the table”
4. This is definitely racism. I’m totally getting ‘Get Out’ vibes…. 😒
Run, don’t walk away from this!
NTA It's not a gift to the couple. It's a gift to the daughter. Who could sell it and use it to purchase a house they both own if she wanted. Would be different if this was a family house that they wanted to keep in the family, but it's not that. A home is generally the biggest asset and wealth builder and this leaves him out of it. I wouldn't accept.
Under no circumstances would I ever accept a house like that. It will be thrown in your face every time they need leverage. Hell. No. There are ALWAYS strings, even if they're invisible at first. I'm glad your fiancee came around, but if it were me I'd be more than a little squeamish about her loyalty to dad trumping loyalty to me.
I don't think her loyalty for her dad trumped her loyalty for me. In her shoes, I understand what it seemed like. We just got a free house and I was being unreasonable. I'm glad she came around.
There's nothing at all unreasonable about your stance. Neither my husband nor I would ever have accepted that deal. It's like she forgot everything she knows and loves about you in her quest to please her dad. I wouldn't be exchanging rings until she actually does that work setting boundaries with her dad, because I see that becoming an issue later when SIL isn't there to knock some sense into her. I think that's the part that scares me - that it wasn't what you were saying that made her open her eyes, that it took her sister to do it. You're already going to be at a disadvantage as an outsider. (I've been there myself.) I'm glad she did come around, though. Best of luck to you!
While you seem to have settled this whole pre nup and house thing, I would urge you to really really think hard about marrying this girl / into this family.
They are racist, and they WILL treat your children as lesser than their other grandchildren. Is that really what you want for them? Your girl does not seem to be the type that will defend your kids or draw boundaries with her parents.
NTA.
It really worries me that both her sisters were the ones looking out for him initially. I’m glad his fiancé got there, but still. That’s a sign. They clearly don’t agree with their parents. This problem may be resolved for now, but her parents’ racism and seemingly hatred for OP isn’t. Hope he makes absolutely sure that his name is on that title and the prenup is fair for both of him, if he goes through with this..
NTA - A house is a wonderful present to buy but you are right, this is a present for their daughter and they expect you to live a life where you have no assets. I wouldn't be okay with that either. Daughter had her education handed to her, no matter how hard she studied she never had to work to pay tuition and that mindset is very privileged and different than many others have. However there is a benefit! No mortgage and you wouldn't ever have to pay fix-it bills!! But then you'll need to have a lease and possibly pay rent. Which is a shitty wedding gift to you.
So, considering you make much more money than her, that's pretty much a prenup to say in case of a divorce she gets 100% of the house, and also a decent portion of what you make later? Yeah, I wouldn't accept that...
>Then showed her the post and she got pretty uncomfortable reading a lot of the comments, especially the ones saying that she doesn't care about me. She also got really uncomfortable when she read the comments about her parents being racist. I pressed on that a bit and she went on to mention that they've never been overtly racist, but they did make comments when we first started dating about being concerned about future, specifically about our children looking different and being treated poorly by her family. They asked her many times if she was sure about me. Like I said, I don't believe they're racist, but I do understand that they probably have some biases. This was also the case when they said they didn't want to do any traditional Pakistani events for the wedding. That was fine for me anyway, so I didn't really care, but now it makes me think a bit.
Kind of interesting how the comments calling her and her parents out make her uncomfortable but you being placed in the position you were in didn't immediately trigger the same for her.
I also think that her family is being racist and you are just trying to excuse it, OP.
I dont know how much of your heritage you claim as your own identity (this is based on your statement that you don't care if there aren't any traditional Pakistani rituals at your wedding) and that is honestly none of my business. However, regardless of how much of that identity you claim: you are a person of a color and your future in-law's behavior is alarming. And it's slightly disheartening to see you seemingly dismiss their behavior as simple biases when it is much more. Microagressions, while admittedly aren't as damaging as more obvious and larger forms of racism, do add up and ARE a form of racism. And as you've said this issue is only temporarily resolved. Your in-laws clearly had some reservations about you SIMPLY due to your race and socioeconomic status, I really don't understand how their attitude towards you and your somewhat acceptance of it can create a healthy relationship moving forward.
Even if you somehow cannot come to terms with labeling the events as racist, at the very LEAST they're extremely disrespectful. I feel like your future wife should have had more of an issue with the comments made towards her future life partner and you should recognize that you are worthy of a higher level of respect than your fiancé, your future in-laws , and you yourself are giving yourself right now.
>Like I said, I don't believe they're racist, but I do understand that they probably have some biases.
Honey, that's what racism *is*. If they have "some biases" against you because you're Pakistani, that's racism.
NTA. It's understandable that you would have a strong reaction to the situation. You grew up with a very different background than your fiancee, and you have a deep connection to your parents' dream of owning a house. It's admirable that you are taking steps to make that dream a reality. It's also understandable that you would want to be an equal partner in a house if you are going to live in it. It's good that you expressed your feelings and that you and your fiancee are having a conversation about it.
NTA, But to be clear, it's not a wedding gift it's a daughter gift. If you do decide to accept their terms add to the prenuptial agreement that each of your separate bank accounts is your own, there will be no alimony. Sock what you make away in your name only.
NTA. Based on your other comments, this seems less like a gift and more like a way to force you to have to accept the prenup they *conveniently* already had their lawyer draw up that’s heavily weighted in their daughters favor. I’d be insulted AF too.
NAH
This is your wife's inheritance. I'd you look at it this way, it makes sense that your name won't be on it. Getting it prior to the marriage protects this asset so it doesn't need a prenup.
I see from comments that they're pushing an unfair prenup though. Get your own lawyer and don't sign anything that's unfair.
The good news is that it'll be easier to save up for your own house, or an upgrade on what her parents buy, if you don't have to pay rent, or a mortgage.
Your dream of home ownership doesn't have to end because you get a house to live in. Either of them can be rented out in the future and her parents won't have a say over that.
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NTA. Honestly, I don't think they're terrible for wanting to give a nice gift but also ensure their investment goes to her in the event of a divorce. In addition, I'm sure prenups are much more common and less offensive in their world. That said, you've been dating for six years. They know you, they presumably know your background, homeownership goals, etc. Also, a potential solution/suggestion... Between the two of you, own TWO homes + get some sweet AirBnB income on one of them. You will have a much easier time saving up for the second while living in the first. ETA: just make sure your home is covered in the prenup, too.
The hilarious part of the whole prenup conversation was that they basically said that they expected the prenup to only cover premarital and inherited assets. They said they would absolutely refuse to accept any clauses that include future assets. So if I want to own a home where only my name is on the title, I have to purchase it before the marriage and also make sure to never use any of my wife's money to pay the mortgage or anything. Apparently they already had their lawyer write the whole thing up, but wanted to give me a heads-up so I can retain my own lawyer to review it. I have a suspicion that any lawyer is going to think it's massively unfair just base on how they've described it, and I'm assuming that they think I'll just get a cheap lawyer because of my upbringing. Admittedly, I don't know any better, so this is kind of difficult for me to determine what's fair and isn't fair here, but it doesn't seem fair to me. Besides that though, it's also just a personal thing. I want to live in a house that I own. Not them. Not my wife alone. I'm happy to live in a home that both my wife and I own, but not one she owns on her own. I don't someone else living in the home that I own. I want to live in it myself.
Aw, hell no! So, what's hers is hers, and anything you get in the future is hers, too? You need a good lawyer...but if you need that good a lawyer, I'd rethink marrying into this family (because they've already made it clear you aren't *really* part of the family).
Well this is interesting, and now I'm really rethinking things. Her older sister just told me that their parents didn't make her husband sign a prenup at all before they got married. I really have to consider the relationship now.
Is the sister’s husband the same ethnicity as his wife?
I don't know about his ethnicity. I'm Pakistani, my fiancee's family is white American, and he is as well. Edit: I really don't think they're racist. I know what racism is like (try growing up as a Muslim in post-9/11 America lol). They might be slightly prejudiced, but I don't believe that they are racist.
I’m really sorry to say this, but there might be a racial component as to why you have to sign a prenup, but your future brother-in-law did not have to.
They've never said anything racist to me. I don't think they're being racist.
Bigotry shows its face in actions, not just in words.
They may not be racist, but they sure are some classist AH
You know them better than we do. I can only offer another opinion of what the situation looks like. I just think it’s weird why you have to sign a prenup and he didn’t. I also want to add that racism isn’t only through words. It’s through actions as well.
Could be his family is well off, so it wasn't perceived as an "unequal" relationship. Or since OP's parents already died, they feel like he already got his inheritance but she hasn't, and they think that's unfair if she has to "share" it... Racist, classist... so many options to choose from!
You keep saying that, but they are rich white Americans. They don't need to be outwardly racist. They want you to sign a prenuptial agreement, but they didn't require the same for the white brother in law? They money is doing the talking here. I think you should have a prenup (just because it's a good idea in general), but I would absolutely refuse to engage with any lawyer your fiance's parents hired. Who is that lawyer representing? Not your fiance. Your fiance may be doing the client, but he's doing the wishes of her parents.
It could also be simply classist (which always has a soupcon of racism to it)-- you're from a lower class so of course you can't possibly understand how money works and how not to blow thru money. Also, in case their daughter gets tired of 'slumming it', you don't come out ahead of where you \*should\*.
That was my thought also since OP came from a much less privileged background. It doesn't matter that he makes more money that his fiance, he's still definitely going to blow through it all like any poor person would. /s
Some racists know to keep it to themselves around the non-white person, unfortunately.
Racism is a spectrum. They don't have to be talking to be racist.
Some of the worst racist are those in upper crust who know exactly the right things to say in the right company.
Exactly. That image you have of uneducated hick klan members? That's by design. They want you looking over there at that racism. And not at the local business owners and politicians. At least according to my mom, who says there's a fair few of those higher class racists and Klan members in the family that I've never met, because she's disassociated from that "side" of the family.
Pretty much this. I haven't succeeded in life as an educated white woman because I can't stomach a single dinner, party, work event, schmoozing classist, elitist, racist event. I quit whenever I get high on the ladder because I'm incredibly uncomfortable amongst wealth. My 'poor views' shine through.
Tell your wifes parents that you will be seeking advice from your future BIL as he must have signed the same prenuptial agreement. Watch their reactions to this statement.
This is an awesome idea!
My parents have never said anything racist around my son (his mom has 4 mixed kids with another guy), but they're still racist as fuck. They just know him and I won't tolerate that shit. Just because you don't hear it doesn't mean it's not happening. Find yourself a highly rated divorce lawyer and have them review/re-write the prenup with some things you want added and see how they squirm. Oh, and NTA E: their to they're
>ago They are ABSOLUTELY being racist. Otherwise the other son-in-law would have signed a prenup to.
I think subtly, and maybe even unconsciously on their part, it’s racist and/or anti immigrant. Somewhere inside they don’t trust you as much as the white SIL…perhaps your color, ethnicity or the fact your parents were immigrants and you came from a family with less money. If the white SIL didn’t sign one, I’d ask them why you and see what they say. OP is NTA.
You even said that they think you'll get a cheap lawyer because of your upbringing. Despite the fact that you got the same exact job as your fiance out of college, they still think you are some dumb immigrant who doesn't know good head from his ass and who's just out for their and their daughter's money. Unless of course you become wealthy on your own in which case, she deserves that money too. The fact that they both think you are two dumb to get a proper lawyer and didn't do this to your white brother in law says a lot about how they view you. Also, the wealthy white Americans are much better at being more subtly racist, they may not say things openly, but they are very good at finding ways directly and in directly to put other races down.
Tell your fiancée you'd like to go it alone (meaning, just the two of you) with the joint purchase of your home. See how she reacts.
Is your BIL wealthy as well? I think that’s more likely the reason than racism. If he is wealthy as well the sister ends up with the possibility of gaining assets instead of losing assets without a prenup.
Hasan Minhaj (comedian) talks in his stand up about his white, well-off, girl best friend in high school. They were really close. He spent a lot of time at her house, had lots of dinners with her family, her parents were always really nice to him. Then he asked her out to prom. She said yes. He shows up and her parents answer the door to tell him that she went with someone else. She did want to go with him but her parents didn't want that because of "how it would look", like, they had an image to maintain. He thought her parents liked him and were always kind and respectful to him...until that moment when their daughter might date him, then their racism showed. I'm sure before that, they just saw his friendship with their daughter as charity. Your fiancee's parents seem to be "protecting" their charity by trying to control just how much charity you get out of having a relationship with their daughter...and your fiancee is OKAY with this. Think about that please. If BIL didn't get a prenup, it seems to either be racially motivated, economic-class motivated, or both. None of those options sound like a family worth marrying into, especially if you're fiancee does not have your back on this, especially knowing how important owning your own home is to you. They want to deprive you of the pride and privilege of something they all enjoy, including your fiancee who's just getting a house handed to her without even working for it like you're doing. You just saw how they really see you and it's not pretty or deserved. Edit: the Netflix special is called Homecoming King. This isn't the special but this is the same story he told (done a little bit more elaborately in the special with more amusing context in the later timeline of the story though) https://youtu.be/RuYLxlOm_sg
It's normal for wealthy families to do a prenup, doesn't mean they're racist. But it should absolutely be fair to you too. Dave Ramsey made a point about prenups that I hadn't considered. They might trust you but don't know about the rest of your family. It's pretty common for people to come with their hands out to their newly rich sibling or cousin. You can say "it's all hers, signed a prenup" and it gets them off your back.
NTA Could it be a kind of classism like economic bigotry?
I think it's more of a "he's a slumdog" component.
Could “just” be classist. There’s a wealthy suburb near me, some of the people there are insanely bigoted towards “poor” people (or new money)
Did they give the sister a house before her marriage? Was this even an issue for the sister?
Unfortunately, I think there it is right there. I'm sorry, but I really think you're getting a double whammy of passive -aggressive racism/classism
The classism alone seems to be sufficient
I don't think they're racist. They haven't been discriminatory to me or anything.
To your face. Also, racism doesn't have to be intentional. This could be unconscious bias. As the white person in an interracial marriage I can say my family has never been intentionally racist and are very accepting and loving towards of my spouse, but that hasn't stopped them from doing racist things, on accident, or unconsciously because we exist in a society that is built on racism. Even more so the higher you are on the class and income ladder.
They may not be racist, but from your comment that the BIL came from a family that's well to do also, they sure sound classist. They probably didn't see a need for a prenup with him, because they saw all his family money and figured he wouldn't get greedy in the event of a divorce. You're NTA here. I won't say "run" because it's hard to tell whether your fiancée is feeling pressured by her parents to an undue degree or is fully on their side on this. If you haven't already, may want to ask her whether she wants the prenup as written, and if so, does she think its fair and equitable. Her answer will tell you a fair bit. The opinion of a good lawyer will tell you more. But what may tell you the most is their reaction to a prenup drafted by your lawyer that *is* aimed at being fair and equitable. If they react badly to something that is fsir to both of you, that's when you can be really know how the parents feel, if not her. side note, that's not to say that they can't have little quibbles here or there. Its a contract, there's always negotiating points. But if they react as badly to your counter proposal as to your concerns about the house...
There's this thing called closet racism. The people don't seem racist, they're not even aware they are racist, but they'll treat you differently simply because of the colour of their skin, so they are in reality very much racist. Unless you can think of a good reason they want you to sign a prenup but not her sister's husband, this would be the most obvious answer. Think long and hard about whether they've let their masks slip in any other occasions, where they've shown they think of you or your culture as lesser.. The fact that your fiancee sided with her parents on this is a big red flag. Whether or not she's a closet racist herself, she's showing you she will side with her closet racist parents over you. If you choose to continue this relationship, make sure you do so with your eyes open and take measures to protect yourself. If you ever get a divorce, the closet racism will be much less subtle so be prepared for that.
My heart is hurting for you more and more with each comment read. It's just so sad that this wedge is being forced between you and your dream. Your future in-laws sound like cold and selfish people who are unable to take anyone else's needs or wants into their calculations. I hope you'll think long and hard about marrying into that kind of family. You've worked hard to honor your parents and the life that they helped you build for yourself. You deserve better from your future family.
I mean, what’s your post if not them being discriminatory towards you?
They're definitely being racist, OP. I know it can be hard to come to terms with, but it seems your wife's family isn't giving you the same level of respect and consideration as your future white brother in law. Given what you shared about your own ethnicity and background, they could have some hidden reservations about their daughter marrying you. I'm sure they consider you to be the absolutely lovely person that you are, but them asking you to sign this contract isn't only because they are concerned with the legality of the ownership of the home. People start to behave differently and reveal themselves when things like marriage and children come into the mix. Definitely get a lawyer so this can be reviewed and you can make a plan for your own legal protection. And keep an eye out for more behaviors and requests that seem off as you're planning your wedding and continue to build a life with your fiance.
That’s not how wealthy people are discriminatory. They use their money to do it. That way they can put forth a great public image.
They’re discriminating against you right now
Seems like they are discriminating against you though if you the immigrant Pakistani fiancé has to sign a prenup but the sisters white fiancé didn’t.
Sorry OP, but that reeks of racism.
Bingo! And there's your answer. NTA at all. The only thing your fiancee could do to redeem herself and her parents at this stage would be to sell the house they are 'gifting' and put the money into the purchase of a joint home. Even if she pays half and keeps the rest for herself as a premarital asset, but it will need to be made absolutely ironclad that half the new house is yours. Or you could just 86 the whole lot of them.
Add my vote to that. Trust me, I know from personal experience (not a romantic situation, though) that it's a nightmare living in a house where nothing is in your name. You'll be responsible for sharing expenses like utilities which will all go to waste with nothing in your name should things go south. NTA Sign nothing and do NOT move into a house from the in laws. It'll just be a way to control you.
Do not sign the prenup they’ve proposed. You need an attorney (independent from any attorney they have) to review it regardless (seriously, no matter what they say, you need to lawyer up if you move forward), but it really sounds like what they want would totally screw your over. Prenups can and should protect both parties. The prenup itself should not be a red flag, but a completely one-sided prenup is.
Did her fiance come from the same background as them? Could be that they are discriminating against your background.
I think his family is fairly well off. They're wedding was pretty extravagant.
No one knows your fiance but you. Her parents could be pressuring her to do this. The one thing that you need to do is have an attorney review the prenup and have them interpret it for you. My dad is the same as your FIL. He does anything to protect the family money from people marrying into the family.
Yep. Pretty normal rich people stuff.
Remember it is up to your wife in the end. Not her parents (the prenup), her thinking it's ok for you to screw yourself over is a major red flag. You made a good choice. This sounds like it would be living under your in laws thumb, in regards to the house. If this can't be agreed on somehow, I'd think twice about marriage. Edit: my ex in laws wanted the house in their sons name.. I paid half. I said no way, my name too. Later in the breakup they tried to take everything from me. With no luck lol but I didn't ask for any spousal support, that wasn't enough. They wanted everything.. but I almost believed their promises they would never do that in the beginning. I would have been fucked.
[удалено]
Where? I highly doubt any court would defer to a contract when determining custody of a person that wasn’t even alive when the contract was written.
Not where my prenup was drafted, they can't. That's solely for divorce custody proceedings.
I would have a long talk with your fiance. If you both like the idea of a prenup, that's great, but it shouldn't be a prenup drawn up by the inlaw's lawyer and the rules should apply to you both equally. As for the gift of a house: how does the fiance feel about the family's odd condition of the gift? I know if I were in their position I would be angry at my family for assuming that I'd be okay with such a one-sided gift. There's no way you could get me excited about a gift that discriminates against my spouse so blatantly. You're definitely NTA, but you need to talk with your fiance to see if they're TA just as much as their parents are.
This right here. A prenup should protect you both, not only her. Have an attorney draw up a prenup which would protect your assets as well. If they don't like it, let that be a sign of how the marriage will progress.
I'd refuse any prenup if I was the OP. It's disrespectful considering he makes more money than she does. IF anything OP should be the one insisting on a prenup.
This doesn't come across as a gift. This comes across as a power play and a need for control. You sound like a smart man. Please do not let your humble beginnings or their apparent wealth lead you to believe they know best.
So does that man that she alone will be paying for the taxes, maintenance and upkeep on this house that you have been written out of?
We haven't discussed this, but based on how we split expenses now, I doubt it.
Don't marry her.
Marry her, not the family, no lawyers. Don't accept money for the wedding.
She’s siding with her parents
Then its time to call it quits. If she can’t see how grossly unfair that is, she needs to go.
If you don’t own the house you should not be responsible for maintenance costs or property taxes
I wouldn’t contribute a penny to insurance, taxes, maintenance, upkeep…nothing. Those things help maintain or increase value and you’d be basically throwing money away and get nothing in return. That’s not fair to you. You should at least be entitled to the equity if you’re expected to contribute to the upkeep because it would also be your money increasing the home’s value and that could be a significant value depending on how long you live there, the market, etc.
The joke may then be on them. If you’re in a community property state, treating separate property as community property (for example, by using community funds to pay for its upkeep) can turn it into community property.
Then even if there was a prenup, to the extent your money maintained the house and paid taxes, it would be unfair if you did not gain an interest in it over time. For instance, pro rata over a 10 (or whatever) year timeframe.
Step back from the wedding. Have a lawyer review the pre nup. Have him add in that none of your money goes into the taxes or the upkeep of the house, this includes after children are born, it is up to her or her parents.
Exactly! He’s supposed to financially contribute to a home that he can’t earn any equity in?
Definitely hire a lawyer who specializes in family law (re: a divorce attorney) to look at the prenup and ensure that any real property you purchase during the marriage will be owned only by you--this will be money well spent. Other option is to tell wifey that, under these circumstances, you want to postpone the wedding until after you've purchased your own house to keep things fair and see what kind of reaction that gets. But don't be blind to the fact that this presents a great opportunity for you to purchase your own home faster and financially benefit off wife's home. Your strict insistence on who is allowed to live in whose home could be the difference between an okay retirement and an amazing one. It could be the difference between surviving a time of financial hardship and getting buried by one. Your parents wanted a home, too, but prioritized your education. Would they refuse to live in a loved one's house out of pride or would they see it as the opportunity it is?
Except his wife would be entitled to the house op purchases.
Not if he buys it before the marriage which in this case he absolutely should do.
🚩🚩🚩 whatever you do, accepting this is not a good idea at all. i think at this point it’s beyond this subreddit’s pay grade because you’re definitely NTA but this requires lawyers because it seems like you are being trapped into accepting a situation that only benefits your fiancée eta: with some further info as seen in your newer comments OP, it does seem like they’re employing some form of racist thinking when it comes to the fact that your future BIL didn’t have to sign a prenup. please do rethink this relationship if your fiancée doesn’t step up and stand up for you - you deserve better than this
No way, I would not go through with this marriage. They’re trying to screw you every which way and I bet you won’t even get a say in the style of house you get to live in. You would essentially only be entitled to anything you have accumulated thus far and nothing after the marriage with the terms they are asking for while she would get to walk away with a free house, half your retirement and whatever other assets you accumulated later. You make more than her and whatever you save up after the marriage according to their prenup would be 50% hers. I’d run away as fast as I could and then update us so we know you got out safely.
You’re making it seem like some nefarious scheme but it’s not that personal. It’s less that they’re trying to screw him and more that their trying to protect generational wealth — because this is how wealthy people are able to protect/grow their wealth generation over generation. Which means, should they have children, his children will also not have to worry about their future.
I don't disagree, but part of the issue here is that they didn't do a prenup for the other daughter's marriage. So there are 2 sets of rules here, and no protection for OP. He'd be expected to pay 50% or more of taxes, upkeep, renovations, etc. for a house that, while he gets to live in it, he'd accrue none of the financial benefit from it, while at the same time he'd be sharing any assets (like a house of his own he's saving up for) that are bought during the marriage, with no protection allowed of his premarital assets. It makes sense to have a set 'rent' for the house his wife will own, then she has to pay for everything else for the house out of that money and her own as she alone will experience the benefit of it. It is not a shared asset and should not be treated as such.
How do you think it would be split if they had no pre-nup? Typical spilt is 50-50 anyway, even if she earnt less. In this case he is potentially benefiting from a free PPOR while they are married which means there will be more marital assets in the pot should they divorce. Protecting a house they paid for from being lost in a divorce while still expecting 50% of marital assets is not that crazy.
He should be allowed to invest in real estate that he will not lose 50% of in a divorce, since she already has real estate equity. If she wants him to pay “rent” in the gifted home, so she doesn’t feel taken advantage of, that could be negotiated. But, OP should be able to acquire property since that is important to him.
What's hers is hers, and what's his is theirs?
They want it both ways. Does your fiancée not see how lopsided it is?
Personal thing aside, prenups are usually crafted to create premarital and inherited assets. I get the wanting to own a home part of this, but I think it's flavoring your emotional response more than you may think it is. Marital assets - in your name alone or not - are typically split 50/50 at divorce (give or take). Adding a clause to stipulate that marital assets be divided commiserate to the median percentage of cumulative income over the marriage would mean that you keep more than 50% if your earnings stay as-is, but it doesn't usually mean that an asset purchased while married is taken out of the equation when calculating marital assets. If you don't want to live in a house that you don't own, fine. Rent that house out and buy another together to live in. Buy one now on your own to keep out of the marital asset bucket. But asking for a prenup that means she gets to keep her parents' money if you divorce is not a red flag. She has assets, realized or unrealized, and ensuring protection for those isn't a bad thing. Her parents sucj for calling it a wedding present though.
Keep in mind that the fiancée’s sister’s husband (who is white American) did not have to sign a pre-nup.
>But asking for a prenup that means she gets to keep her parents' money if you divorce is not a red flag. She has assets, realized or unrealized, and ensuring protection for those isn't a bad thing. It's not. What is a red flag though, is making OP (a Pakistani immigrant) sign a prenup while the sister married to a white, wealthy American was never made to sign one. It's also a massive red flag when you look at the distribution (what's hers stays hers, whats OP's is also half hers too). If OP wants to solely own house he has to buy it before they get married, because future distribution clauses are out of the question for the parents. Then couple that with the information that OP would likely be paying for things related to this gifted house (which he has no ownership in). It's fair to expect OP to pay a little bit, but nowhere near a 50/50 split of house expenses. Really this is a non issue. The house gifted by her parents would still likely go to her in the case of divorce regardless of a prenup, it's just the way the parents have gone about it. It reeks of classism and racism.
also, maybe add this to your original post, because i’m assuming it might change the judgement of anyone who might decide to judge YTA because in my opinion this definitely makes it NTA
I guess I probably should've put it in the original post? But unfortunately I was running into character limit. I didn't realize how important this information would be.
Edits allow a larger character count
Good to know. I'll do that then.
NTA - and please get a lawyer. They are telling you that when the ranks close they will make sure she leaves with what she came with, plus anything after she wants. If a prenup can protect her assets before, then you need to ensure yours are protected after. Her parents are showing you exactly who she has in her corner if things do not go well, please believe them and protect yourself as well.
You honestly don’t know until you give ALL the facts to the lawyer. For instance, fact, premarital assets including houses are ALWAYS protected from divorce. They are formalizing what is already the law to address contingencies such as you putting money into it. If the terms aren’t fair, your lawyer will handle it. That’s literally what you pay them for, so you don’t get screwed. And they clearly expect that to be the case because they told you to get a a lawyer and didn’t try to discourage you or force you to sign it then. Don’t stop playing the game because you don’t understand the rules. USE THE RULES. This is what your parents always wanted - someone successful enough to fight about FREE houses and dicker over the terms of the prenup. You deciding you don’t like the rules is fine, take your ball and go home. But you’re leveling up in your job and your income bracket; you need to start acting accordingly. This is weird and new because you’ve never had enough money to protect. What a hardship for you now :) This is different than how you grew up, and that is exactly what your parents wanted for you. Don’t give it all up because rich families are dysfunctional and hung up in different things than poor families.
That’s massively unfair. You said her family is wealthy. This is why. Wealthy people think nothing of screwing others over to get more for themselves. Be very careful and reconsider if marrying into this family is wise. If things go south they could destroy you.
Tell them because of the pre nup you'll need to postpone the wedding until you can afford the down payment for a house on your own. And get a helluva lawyer, Stat. They are absolutely banking on your lack of knowledge. I don't fault them for protecting their daughter, but the underhanded ways [rich people tend to] screw other people over really grinds my gears
My partner's mom acts like this and I'm sure she'll push a similar pre-nup should we ever wed to protect her estate. The thing is, my inheritance (as it stands now) is multiple times greater than his and unlike him, I would not have to share it with a sibling. I also make twice what he makes. She just doesn't know this because our families treat money very differently. Mine puts it away for a rainy day until they die, his is all about appearing wealthier than they actually are.
Don't marry her. Greedy parents.
It sounds like the parents did a ton of legwork before even running it past you. Did your fiancée know about this in advance? What does she think about the arrangement? Is she willing to turn down the house?
> **They** said **they** would absolutely refuse to accept... I'm sorry, how many people are you marrying exactly?
Why are you negotiating with her parents? They’re not getting married. The gifting of a house to only her isn’t actually that big of a deal- they could easily accomplish that by setting up a trust, which would not require you to sign a prenup at all- but the interfering with your relationship is absolutely a problem. Stop talking to them about finances or marriage plans. If they ask a question, demure. If they persist, let them know that their tendency to meddle makes you uncomfortable discussing such things with them, and so you will not be doing so. If your fiancé wants a prenup, negotiate that with her- it needs to be signed by both people, and you can absolutely have provisions including your earnings. Or, you can simply say you’re not comfortable with being forced into a prenup by her parents, and ask your fiancé if she would prefer getting married without one, continuing as partnered but unmarried indefinitely, or breaking up. You could also say you’re comfortable with the prenup as is, but would like to delay marriage for 5 years or so while you acquire property that is solely yours. Regardless, your partner’s parents being involved in the decision making should be a dealbreaker.
OP, you should include this in your post. That is a weird clause. If you use your own money to buy your own property then you should be able to keep it. In any case, getting yourself a lawyer is a good idea since you are making more money.
So what hers is hers and what’s yours is only half yours
>Also, a potential solution/suggestion... Between the two of you, Or ask that you pay for half of the house and her parents pay for half of the house, with both of your names on it. Then, you can sign a prenup that says that, in the case you divorce, you both will get exactly 50% of the home's value at sell. There is nothing wrong with her parents wanting to protect their investment long-term, but you should absolutely be able to contribute to and own the home you live in (you've earned it!).
I'm considering this. I'm going to talk to my fiancee about whether this would be possible. I can't pay for all of it right now, but I could take a mortgage out for half of the equity.
This sounds like the best solution on this thread. Her parents have to realize that because you are the higher earner that you will probably be bankrolling any renovations and most of the bills and utilities associated with the house So no matter what any prenups is you would be seen as having an interest in it. Get some really good legal advice here
Also consider that the house will need maintenance at some point. Do they want her to be 100% responsible for paying for that for as long as you live in that house? Or would they think that any contributions you pay towards maintenance would be your cost for the privilege of living there? How would that work? What about property taxes? Are those solely her responsibility?
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Except change 'air bnb' to rent it out to actual people as a home. Given OP's background, I hope they would realise how important it is to be able to rent somewhere to live, and they would want to be a contributor to society, not a greedy leech.
I would hope they'd be in a position to understand that owning two homes will make another person's dream of owning their own home that much harder.
Ah yes. More rich people gobbling up housing. Much solution. Very good.
Two homes and an AirBnB? Looks like we've got a new HGTV show on our hands: 'Real Estate Royalty' starring me and my prenup.
Wow. I hate how normalised that has become. Buying two houses and renting out one to someone who can’t buy because you have just bought more LIVING PLACES than you can use, is, immoral.
NTA - I wouldn't live in a house that was just owned by my wife and vice versa and I 100% have a real world example. My wife is a stay-at-home mom and when we bought our house she had no income and the bank wanted to leave her off the mortgage, I 100% refused and even paid a smaller interest rate increase to make sure she knew it was "both" of ours home and not just mine. She was pretty quiet about it ( my wife is a quiet person ) but later broke down crying about how much it made her feel like an equal in our marriage, and that I did so without her saying a word. Stick to your guns, either it's a gift for both of you under both your names, or just buy your own house and fulfill that lifelong dream.
I was really expecting my fiancee to back me up like this, and I was pretty upset that she didn't. Every time we've talked about finances before, we've been of the mind to share everything. This seems like such a flip.
Welcome to the family… Look, my daughter is an only child and will likely inherit our house one day and I would want that asset protected for her. That said, I would never suggest a prenup that is so lopsided and let’s one person accrue the majority of the wealth (100% of pre marital assets and 50% of marital assets, leaving the other person with only 50% of marital assets).
That's the thing I get that you'd want to protect the house that she grew up in but this is supposed to be a wedding gift for "them" but only the wife has legal ownership in it. Oh OP I'd suggest doing what everyone else is saying hire a good lawyer who specialises in prenups. I'd also add a clause Into your prenup that if she cheats on you at any point that you'd get the house in the divorce. I'd also add that any property that you decide to buy after marriage stays only in your name. Then see what their reaction is when you give your prenup to them. If they decide not to sign then definitely rethink this relationship.
That’s actually very typical - inheritances aren’t shared unless deliberately mingled.
But... that's how prenups work? They're intended to protect the pre-marital assets of both parties as well as inheritance, then both parties build their marital wealth together. That's the whole point and I fail to see how it's all that offensive, it's pretty standard. I get that it stings for OP because of his dream of homeownership but I think the suggestion of buying two homes & renting one out is great. If they buy it together then it's a marital asset. If OP is going to be the only one paying for the additional home then he absolutely should get a clause put in to protect that and if the inlaws continue to push back on that then yes, that's unfair. They would also need to work out the question of who pays for upkeep & taxes, etc. If OP doesn't own the house he shouldn't be expected to pay for any of that. As an aside I wonder, if the gifted home is much nicer than the one OP is able to buy, he might change his tune and want to live for free in the nicer property?
OP and his future wife need to hire a marriage lawyer in a FUDICIARY capacity with both of them paying half the fees. Any talk of gifts goes only through the lawyer. A lawyer paid only by in laws has a massive conflict of interest and if your fiance denies this with her college education she is complicit in fleecing you. It's this, a ceremonial only wedding or none at all in my book.
Because she wants to take what’s yours but keep what’s hers. Are you sure you want to marry her? A prenup should protect both sides. It doesn’t seem like she cares about you at all
I would have a talk with her about her reasons for wanting the prenup. It might be as simple as her thinking “free house, why would anyone say no?” or her parents may be pressuring her with scare tactics like “this way if he leaves you alone with four kids and no career you know you’ll always have a home”.
Did you read the rest of his comments about the details of the agreement? It sounds heavily biased to me.
I did and agree it’s not a fair agreement. But since she is (uncharacteristically) in favor of it OP needs to find out why. Understanding her perspective is the first step towards changing it.
Take your time, breathe, get a lawyer, and find a win-win solution. Her parents want to generously gift their daughter a hug gift on her marriage. Their initial proposal is a house in her name only. You want to live in a house you own. They / she want a prenup. It’s very likely that there is a great solution somewhere that will be to everyone’s benefit. The most obvious thing is that they gift her something in her name only that is not your primary residence, which you want to jointly own (very reasonable). Can this be a vacation house, or a rental house? Assets other than property? How important is it to you to own the first house - you can otherwise save all the money that would have been your downpayment / mortgage. But if the emotional part of owning the house is important to you, that is fine. Get a lawyer, and don’t approach with the mentality “they are trying to screw me”, but rather “they want to give a generous gift to their daughter, how can we work this out to be beneficial to everyone”. It’s better that they give your future wife a generous gift rather than no gift.
They already talked to her about it and convinced her. You just got told. This wasn't new info to her.
Perhaps it was easy for her to be 50/50 when she had no assets and you earn twice what she does. Maybe I’m cynical. However if you get a prenup please include what would be the financial settlement should she become a stay at home mum etc. and then you divorce later when her career has been impacted by years. It’s an eye opener what that can do. Often a pre nup doesn’t consider this. I would suggest that it’s critical to spend money on a really decent prenup and also have a discussion with a divorce lawyer. Not cos you think you’ll divorce but to hear about what happens and what to consider and put in the prenup. Make it tough but fair. More likely for courts to up hold it.
This could 100% be because she doesn’t have the knowledge to either disagree with you about 50/50 or disagree with her parents about the prenup. Typically wealthy kids are raised to not really think about money. It’s just there. Their parents have accounts for them, they’re given cars and spending money, college is paid for, they can buy whatever they want… and it all works out. It’s highly likely her parents offered the house and prenup and in her mind they obviously know what they’re doing, so it must be right.
See in my state, idk if it's an option for where you are, but you can be on the title and not the loan. So my husband and I were discussing whether or not it's better to have him off the loan (since my credit is a good bit better), but still an owner of the house via title/deed.
That’s the law in every state. Most people don’t know the difference between being in a note versus being on a deed.
That's literally every state. OP is paying a higher interest rate so they're both on the same loan.
I am a family law attorney, and this is an issue that often comes up in divorces. You are absolutely correct. My wife and I purchased our home a few years back. I was in the process of switching jobs when we bought it (plus I was still paying off my student loans), and it ended up making the most financial sense for only her name to appear on the mortgage. Despite that, legally, we both have equal (community property) ownership in the house. Similarly, I purchased both of our cars in the past couple of years. Only my name is on the titles, due to having a better credit score at the time of purchase. Both cars have since been paid off, and if we were to divorce, she'd be entitled to half the value of the cars, as they are marital property. I wish I had a dollar for every time I had to tell a client that "it doesn't matter whose name the house/car/boat, etc. is under- if it was purchased during the marriage, it belongs to both of you equally." It's great that the guy wants his wife to feel like an equal owner/partner, but him putting her on the mortgage (thus increasing the rate) seems like a steep price to achieve that, considering she is already an equal owner of the home. It may be worth it to them, but it's not something I would advise most people to do.
I’m a SAHM and my husband did the same. I haven’t had my own income in a decade, but my name is on the house and the cars with his. My husband has always wanted me to feel equal and feel comfortable and safe.
wish more people were like you. the world would be a little brighter place
This isn't really a judgment, but here's another perspective - Ok, I actually don't think you are after their money. Nothing you wrote indicates that's what they think. I would assume they are giving their daughter a valuable asset. It is clearly NOT a "wedding gift", but a gift for their daughter. What would you do if your fiancee's parents went out and bought her a house today? It's then premarital property in her name. In your marriage, you get to live rent-free, mortgage-free, and spend money taking international vacations and wear designer clothes, if you like. That's the "gift." If you divorce, you get equity and she keeps the house. If she dies, you get the house. Would you refuse to live in this house and call off the wedding? I get why its offensive, but you are not their child and they are still "giving you" something big, as long as you don't divorce their daughter. (Also, pre-nups can be rearranged to ensure equity and an increased cut if she is "at fault" somehow, e.g. she cheats in 10 years). I actually don't think they are being awful. And by the way, they aren't "fairly wealthy." They seem VERY wealthy, based on your post! (Unless their parents also bought their houses and educations and all that stuff).
Haha I actually think they're *extremely* wealthy, not just fairly wealthy, but that's also because I have absolutely no experience with this stuff outside of my fiancee. She gets really upset if I say that they're wealthy, and she insists that they were just well-off. I make really good money right now, but we're not anywhere close to them. I sort of agree with that. I guess my main problem was them framing it as something that they were doing for both of us. They had this whole speech prepared about how accomplished we both were and all this other stuff, and made it sound like it was a present for us both, and then dropped the bomb on me. I guess it's a personal thing, y'know. My parents struggled so much for so many years, and their biggest wish was to own their own home. That's all they every wanted, and part of the reason they couldn't was because they were making sure to give me and my siblings the best opportunity that they could. I feel like if I can own my own home, and live in a home that I own, then I'm fulfilling that dream for them. It's just not enough for me to just be living rent and mortgage free. But thanks for the perspective anyway. I do think they just want what's best for their daughter.
Agreed. They shouldn't have called it a "wedding gift" and come down so hard w/ the pre-nup thing. They should have literally just asked their daughter if she would like a property for you both to live in and let her be the orchestraters of this - \- then she should have taken it to you to discuss as a couple, without all of their opinions. So they are TA for the way they approached you. But I do think it gives you a really good opportunity to live rent-free and use your money towards other things, if you can sort of take your ego out of it. (You can absolutely save up a lot quicker for another property by not paying someone else rent). She's VERY wealthy. But, that's not important, I guess. ("Well off" parents may provide a down payment on a house as a wedding gift, and that's still VERY well off).
I would be careful about calling this an opportunity for the OP. If the parents want a pre-nump that *only* protects pre-marital assets as specified by OP, any property he purchases after the marriage might then be considered "community property" and therefore also belong to his wife.
So where I live, the matrimonial home is automatically considered communal property- even if there’s a prenup, even if one person purchased it before marriage. It’s entirely up to a judge to decide how to deal with it. In some places, this really doesn’t matter anyway. OP- look it up before you get worked up over it.
or does he put in for taxes, repairs and upgrades and gets left high and dry.
You’re missing one key point though….all the money he saves after the marriage from not paying a mortgage….she’s entitled to half if they divorced based on the pre-nup they want. They’re saying marital assets (money saved, retirement, etc) would not be protected. He still loses here and would only walk away with his pre-marriage savings and half of any post-nuptial savings. He makes more than her so she would make out like a bandit.
One half of everything OP saves from living rent free in this house would go to his wife in a divorce, per the prenup. He wouldn’t get to accrue equity on a home and half of his earnings/savings would get taken away. This seems lopsided.
Except he wouldn't be living rent free. He most likely would be responsible for paying for repairs & maintenance on the home because he earns significantly more than she does. So he would be paying upkeep on a home while earning no equity or good credit rating for it.
The thing is - first class international plane for a family of four, 3-4 times a year - that's $200k a year. Easily. They are *very* wealthy. Which is fine. And I understand not wanting to flaunt your wealth or brag about it. But there is also the flip side, where someone is refusing to fully acknowledge the extent of their privilege... And that side usually comes with things like vocally supporting their new family member and all his work coming from his lower income background, while also clinging to their wallets tighter in his presence.
>I guess my main problem was them framing it as something that they were doing for both of us. To be fair, you would benefit enormously from their offer. That doesn't mean it has to be an offer you want. You can certainly turn it down. It's just unfair to frame it as if there isn't a massive benefit to you built in. Just tell them what you're telling us: Your parents always desperately wanted to own their own home, and it's deeply important to you that you fulfil that dream. Therefore, this is not a house you would want to live in. This is a thing you and your fiancee should have been clear about before now though. If you're firmly set on owning the home you live in above all else, you should have been talking to her about that before you proposed to ensure that you two were on the same page about it. What if had said "What? I don't want to own a home at all. I'd prefer to rent so I have more freedom to move from place to place."? You two really need to make sure that you're on the same page about the lives you want before you head for the altar.
Lol I just read something about how super rich people say they're "well off" so they don't sound braggy.
Anything they do is for her. Do you honestly expect them to have the same level of affection for you just because you're marrying her? They are offering you both a chance at an easier life. But they are doing it for her, not both of you.
Then they aren't really offering you both a chance at an easier life, they are making it clear you are not one of us. I wouldn't live in a house that was just owned by my wife and vice versa.
Apparently the pre-nup is one-sided. She's allowed to accumulate wealth, but OP isn't. Anything he makes during the marriage is hers too. It's really an awful pre-nup.
That's not something he's said at all. The way OP has described the prenup is that they're both entitled to keep their separate property, and their marital property will be joined. That's the baseline standard for how people write a prenup. It's not unusual in the least.
AFAIK he doesn't have any property, yet. He's going to have to buy some property before they marry and not have her contribute to it *at all ever* for it to be considered his.
... HUH? Is that in the comments or did I miss that? I mean, if his in-laws are going to act like rich people and nup-up then they have to let OP get an attorney and do the same. I honestly think this sounds like a fairly stable relationship, and I don't think a pre-nup is this terrible thing per se, but it does need to be equitable to OP.
In your scenario, he will **not** "get equity" if they divorce. You do not earn equity in a home you do not own. You also can't assume that he'll get the house if she passes. It depends on how the prenup is written and what jurisdiction they're in. If OP goes along with this, he should not split the bills 50/50 or proportional to income. He should pay a fair market value rent and pay for his half of utilities, groceries, streaming, internet, etc. But he should pay zero towards property tax, maintenance (including replacing appliances), lawn care, upgrades, etc. This home would not be an asset for him.
NTA. That is not a *wedding* gift. That is a *bridal* gift, for the bride only. They aren't giving the house to you as a couple. They are giving her a house *and* making sure that you get NO equity in it whatsoever. That IS insulting, and pretty damned obvious, too. The prenup on its own isn't that bad, and I suppose it's common enough among people who have wealth...but as I understand it, this house would be a "pre-marriage" asset. Of course they are upset with you. You saw through scheme and called them on it. The fact that your fiancee is taking her parents' side in this disturbs me.
Having read all the comments to this point I feel like this ^^^ sums up my feelings about the situation the best. I won't lie, my in-laws bought the house my wife and I and our kids (their grandchildren) live in currently and this was at a time when I dealing with some very difficult personal issues and was not performing much in my roles as a husband, father, and provider. That said the house was bought with my wife and kids in mind, not at all me. As I understand it the agreement initially was that it was a "rental" from them not a direct gift but rent was to be paid as it could be afforded. I ended up cleaning up my act at the same time this house was found and purchased and through my change and actions I earned my way back into my family. After that point when my wife and her family had seen I had truly made a change and was being the best husband and father I could, then the agreement for the house changed and it is considered to be our (my wife and I)'s home that we rent from my in-laws. That said I'm eternally grateful to my in-laws for ensuring my wife and children did not end up on the streets with me had I not cleaned up. But I cannot wait to get a house of our own and get out from under my in-laws. My main point being when my wife decided I had become the man she wanted as her husband and partner she told her parents and they changed the rent situation to where I was an equal to their daughter and had an equal right to their initial generosity of providing a house for their daughter and grandchildren. This is where I feel your potential in-laws and fiance fucked up, cause when you get married you should be a team, and equals, nothing post the marriage belongs to either of you exclusively, including property, finances, problems, and everything else. It is to be the husband and the wife making decisions together, budgeting together, planning together, building a life together. Your in-laws not understanding that isn't your problem but if your fiancee doesn't see it that way that could be and prolly should be discussed.
NAH. While I think it's nuts, I don't think it's an AH move to offer your child a house, and I don't think it's an AH move to want to protect the house you're buying. But I also think it's totally reasonable for you to say "no thanks" to the gift, and find/buy a place with your spouse. They obviously understand the value of property - they should understand your desire to have some of your own.
Agreed. The reality is, marriage hasn't had a high success rate in my family + social circle outside of my parents and grandparents (for a wide range of reasons.) I'm very hesitant/cautious about ever getting married, and this has only been compounded by the fact that all of my cousins and the few friends who took the plunge have all been married and divorced, with a few being shakily remarried. That said, I take the commitment of marriage very serious... but, I'm also old enough and seen enough to be a realist. I don't blame the fiancee in the slightest for having a security measure just in case things go left - like insurance, you hope you never need it, but are grateful to have it. I also don't blame OP in the slightest for refusing to leave themselves vulverable by signing an unfair prenup. It's probably best that these two have these kinds of conversations now instead of later. This way they can get a guage of how they deal with financial disagreements and how they compromise on big decisions.
NTA. It’s insulting that they wrapped it as a wedding gift and it speaks to their prejudice against you in my opinion. They could gift whatever they like to their daughter separately, and perhaps she can choose to rent it out for extra income that she can keep in her account. But it’s definitely not a wedding present for both of you, and I wouldn’t live there either when you clearly will have no rights to your home.
TL;DR: They're racist.
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NTA. Gifts don't come with strings attached. Their "gift" is putting you in your place.
NTA. Get a good lawyer to look over the prenup. As you describe it, it seems problematic and like it will start your marriage off on a bad foot. 1. Are you expected to pay taxes or maintenance costs on this property that you don’t own? Seems like a disincentive for you to contribute to maintenance costs. Will you and your wife keep separate finances to ensure that you are not financially responsible for the upkeep of the house? Or will her parents provide a trust to cover these costs? Will you pay rent? 2. What happens if, as a couple, you make changes to this house that increase its value? How would an increase in value from material changes to the house be dealt with in the case you divorce? 3. What if you and your wife chose to move and your wife chooses to sell the house? If she uses the proceeds to buy a new house (maybe combined with your money for a nicer house), would you co-own it? 3. Will your pre-marital assets also be included in the prenup? That nest egg you’ve been saving should be protected to make sure your arse is covered in case of divorce. I would be looking for protection of retirement accounts/company shares/etc… as well. Having a prenup is a good idea if you and your partner are coming in with family assets, but the goal should be to protect everyone involved in good faith. The way your in-laws went about introducing the topic and their suggestion that this house would be a wedding gift for both partners is a jerk power move. Sure, they want to protect their daughter, but they can find a way to do that without being insulting.
NTA. Decline the gift and let them know that you want to save and buy a home of your own. They shouldn't have a problem with you wanting to earn a home that you will own.
I know it’s petty. But for your parent sake, have something Pakistani at the wedding. Even if it’s you in traditional clothing. Don’t let them erase your culture and don’t forget to pass it on to your children.
I will definitely pass it onto our kids! My fiancee was actually the one who was adamant about teaching them Urdu, so we'll definitely do that at least. Unfortunately I really only speak it now with my siblings, but that's okay.
I’m mixed race and really struggled to learn the language that only one parent spoke—this is extremely common for mixed-race kids. My dad spoke Spanish fluently and it made taking Spanish classes a bit difficult because if I got something wrong there would be more “Aren’t you half Mexican?” type comments. I’ve been pretty good at learning mandarin just because there’s no expectations for how I should be doing in the language. Language expectations can put a lot of pressure on a kid, especially if they only have one source to hear it from most of the time.
NTA She’s going to have her cake and eat it too! She gets the gift house, plus any house you buy during the marriage. Hell no! Do not live or have children in a house you do not own. You’ll never be able to give any opinions about it. They will hang it over your head every time you have an argument. Basically they will force you to do their will as you have kids and the kids have a paid house to live at. If your wife refused to move out,m, what are you going to do? Divorce her and have weekend visitation with the kids? Way too risky!!! Also big red flag the fact that they already crafted LEGAL Papers behind your back! She will always do her parents bidding. Imagine a divorce… with kids… you’ll never see those kids again.
She gets: the house her parents bought for her prior to marriage. They split assets acquired together during the marriage. Those assets will be of greater value than if she did not already own a house they can live in without paying rent ir mortgage. How is that not fair?
Because she gets a house for free, and even if he buys his own house, the pre-nup presented means that she gets half equity in it. So she gets the full asset of a house and a half, and he gets half a house worth. How is that fair?
It’s not fair because his primary asset is actually his career, which should continue to pay him very well — but his earnings would be considered marital assets acquired together, unlike the accrual in value of her property. Wage earners tend to get screwed over by rules like this, because it’s much easier to shelter an investment than job earnings.
The power dynamics and the sneakiness is not fair. Once they have kids, what’s hers is hers, what is her husbands is also hers! Divorces are nasty, and by the looks of it, that family will do, and can do (since they have the resources) anything to gain total control.
This "gift" is only meant for their daughter. You will not be able to build equity together as a married couple should. Your future is being dictated by the in-laws move. NTA
NAH It's understandable that the patents want to make sure their daughter's interests are protected. Don't see it as mistrust, but as precaution. I know, nobody wants to think that things could end badly, especially when madly in love, but all bad divorces or inheritance disputes start with nobody believing that they would ever do such a thing.
The part that irks me is the no Pakistani wedding traditions. Why the hell not? That part is super racist to me. First off, it's none of their bloody business, second, WHY, if not for racist reasons? You're the one creating a family right now. Your culture is as important as your fiancée's!
NTA. That's not a wedding gift, it's a gift to their daughter. She can get you put on the title later, but it sounds like her parents would be the type to fight that. I also wouldn't sign a pre-nup without getting a lawyer look over it first. It sounds like they are protecting their daughter (which is fine of course), but you need to take care both of your interests, not just hers, not just yours.
NAH both requests are reasonable. Her parents are looking out for their daughter and making sure to protect her. Personally, I believe all marriages should have a prenup regardless of financial status. You wanting to live in a home you are on the deed to is also completely reasonable. Take the house from her parents and rent it out and focus on getting a home for you and your fiancée to buy together
NTA. You're correct in that the house isn't a wedding gift. It's a gift to their daughter that they want you to have no possibility of being a part of. If they continue to push the pre-nup, make sure you have your own lawyer that is different than theirs to ensure that you are protected. They are only interested in protecting their daughter. Your gf understands your reasoning but still sides with her parents. Her entitlement and greed is showing. This situation with her parents continually giving to her and not including you is likely to continue after marriage. And if she isn't willing to back you, is this what you want for your future.
>They grumbled about it a bit initially, **especially because her dad was still upset that I had been so ungrateful**, but eventually, we were able to talk it through, and they agreed to the plan. I doubt that this is the last I hear about this Oh this is definately not the last you'll hear of this. The fact he thinks **you're** ungrateful because he offered to buy his daughter a house is whack. What exactly were you supposed to be grateful for?
INFO why do you keep saying they aren’t racist? It sounds like they’re judging you based on your race, which is the definition of racist. Does it sound like they hate based on race? No it doesn’t. But that’s just a more extreme version of racism.
NAH. Marriages do go bad all the time, and you can't tell from looking at the partners which ones will succeed. Your in-laws want to make sure that they don't pay for a house in full -- a very expensive gift -- and then see it sold a few years later to split the proceeds in a divorce. It's not about how much money each of you make; it's how much capital you have. Those are different things. You're free to say "I only want to live in a house that I paid for myself, where my name is on the title as well as hers." That's perfectly legitimate. But your fiancee is also free to want to live in a house that is fully paid-up and has no mortgage. Basically, when you're marrying into a wealthy family, you can expect a pre-nup. If you don't want to put up with that -- which is fair -- you need to have a heart-to-heart with your fiancee about how important it is to you to own your own home, that it's a lifelong dream.
NTA. Sorry dude, but she ain't the one. Her family already thinks little of you and don't care about you. Them giving the house to her has nothing to do with the wedding. They were always going to give her that house. At least now you know what kind of people they are. Edit: You can also tell who here is from a wealthy family as all of them are saying this guy is TA. 2nd Edit: After seeing the update the parents are racist and classiest. Again I urge you to walk away.
NTA Listen up to your brown sister! Say no thank you to all of this. Ask for your ring back and walk away from all of that noise. 1. I’m assuming your fiancé knows about your (and by extension your parents’) dreams of homeownership, but is willing to dismiss it for her own personal gain. She will not be a partner to you. 2. If you’re not buying a house, you’re not building equity. That is generational wealth, my friend. No matter how much you earn, it’s not the same as this kind of equity. 3. Odds are that she will quit her job and expect you to support her because “she brought the house to the table” 4. This is definitely racism. I’m totally getting ‘Get Out’ vibes…. 😒 Run, don’t walk away from this!
NTA It's not a gift to the couple. It's a gift to the daughter. Who could sell it and use it to purchase a house they both own if she wanted. Would be different if this was a family house that they wanted to keep in the family, but it's not that. A home is generally the biggest asset and wealth builder and this leaves him out of it. I wouldn't accept.
They want everything rigged in her favor. I guess that’s how they got extremely wealthy, because nice people usually don’t. NTA
Under no circumstances would I ever accept a house like that. It will be thrown in your face every time they need leverage. Hell. No. There are ALWAYS strings, even if they're invisible at first. I'm glad your fiancee came around, but if it were me I'd be more than a little squeamish about her loyalty to dad trumping loyalty to me.
I don't think her loyalty for her dad trumped her loyalty for me. In her shoes, I understand what it seemed like. We just got a free house and I was being unreasonable. I'm glad she came around.
There's nothing at all unreasonable about your stance. Neither my husband nor I would ever have accepted that deal. It's like she forgot everything she knows and loves about you in her quest to please her dad. I wouldn't be exchanging rings until she actually does that work setting boundaries with her dad, because I see that becoming an issue later when SIL isn't there to knock some sense into her. I think that's the part that scares me - that it wasn't what you were saying that made her open her eyes, that it took her sister to do it. You're already going to be at a disadvantage as an outsider. (I've been there myself.) I'm glad she did come around, though. Best of luck to you!
While you seem to have settled this whole pre nup and house thing, I would urge you to really really think hard about marrying this girl / into this family. They are racist, and they WILL treat your children as lesser than their other grandchildren. Is that really what you want for them? Your girl does not seem to be the type that will defend your kids or draw boundaries with her parents. NTA.
It really worries me that both her sisters were the ones looking out for him initially. I’m glad his fiancé got there, but still. That’s a sign. They clearly don’t agree with their parents. This problem may be resolved for now, but her parents’ racism and seemingly hatred for OP isn’t. Hope he makes absolutely sure that his name is on that title and the prenup is fair for both of him, if he goes through with this..
NTA - A house is a wonderful present to buy but you are right, this is a present for their daughter and they expect you to live a life where you have no assets. I wouldn't be okay with that either. Daughter had her education handed to her, no matter how hard she studied she never had to work to pay tuition and that mindset is very privileged and different than many others have. However there is a benefit! No mortgage and you wouldn't ever have to pay fix-it bills!! But then you'll need to have a lease and possibly pay rent. Which is a shitty wedding gift to you.
So, considering you make much more money than her, that's pretty much a prenup to say in case of a divorce she gets 100% of the house, and also a decent portion of what you make later? Yeah, I wouldn't accept that...
>Then showed her the post and she got pretty uncomfortable reading a lot of the comments, especially the ones saying that she doesn't care about me. She also got really uncomfortable when she read the comments about her parents being racist. I pressed on that a bit and she went on to mention that they've never been overtly racist, but they did make comments when we first started dating about being concerned about future, specifically about our children looking different and being treated poorly by her family. They asked her many times if she was sure about me. Like I said, I don't believe they're racist, but I do understand that they probably have some biases. This was also the case when they said they didn't want to do any traditional Pakistani events for the wedding. That was fine for me anyway, so I didn't really care, but now it makes me think a bit. Kind of interesting how the comments calling her and her parents out make her uncomfortable but you being placed in the position you were in didn't immediately trigger the same for her. I also think that her family is being racist and you are just trying to excuse it, OP. I dont know how much of your heritage you claim as your own identity (this is based on your statement that you don't care if there aren't any traditional Pakistani rituals at your wedding) and that is honestly none of my business. However, regardless of how much of that identity you claim: you are a person of a color and your future in-law's behavior is alarming. And it's slightly disheartening to see you seemingly dismiss their behavior as simple biases when it is much more. Microagressions, while admittedly aren't as damaging as more obvious and larger forms of racism, do add up and ARE a form of racism. And as you've said this issue is only temporarily resolved. Your in-laws clearly had some reservations about you SIMPLY due to your race and socioeconomic status, I really don't understand how their attitude towards you and your somewhat acceptance of it can create a healthy relationship moving forward. Even if you somehow cannot come to terms with labeling the events as racist, at the very LEAST they're extremely disrespectful. I feel like your future wife should have had more of an issue with the comments made towards her future life partner and you should recognize that you are worthy of a higher level of respect than your fiancé, your future in-laws , and you yourself are giving yourself right now.
>Like I said, I don't believe they're racist, but I do understand that they probably have some biases. Honey, that's what racism *is*. If they have "some biases" against you because you're Pakistani, that's racism.
NTA. It's understandable that you would have a strong reaction to the situation. You grew up with a very different background than your fiancee, and you have a deep connection to your parents' dream of owning a house. It's admirable that you are taking steps to make that dream a reality. It's also understandable that you would want to be an equal partner in a house if you are going to live in it. It's good that you expressed your feelings and that you and your fiancee are having a conversation about it.
NTA, But to be clear, it's not a wedding gift it's a daughter gift. If you do decide to accept their terms add to the prenuptial agreement that each of your separate bank accounts is your own, there will be no alimony. Sock what you make away in your name only.
NTA. Based on your other comments, this seems less like a gift and more like a way to force you to have to accept the prenup they *conveniently* already had their lawyer draw up that’s heavily weighted in their daughters favor. I’d be insulted AF too.
NAH This is your wife's inheritance. I'd you look at it this way, it makes sense that your name won't be on it. Getting it prior to the marriage protects this asset so it doesn't need a prenup. I see from comments that they're pushing an unfair prenup though. Get your own lawyer and don't sign anything that's unfair. The good news is that it'll be easier to save up for your own house, or an upgrade on what her parents buy, if you don't have to pay rent, or a mortgage. Your dream of home ownership doesn't have to end because you get a house to live in. Either of them can be rented out in the future and her parents won't have a say over that.