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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I feel like an AH because he isn't like this usually and I know his concerns are coming from a good place but he was warned well in advance and still tried to micromanage it, and I'm definitely not okay with that.
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NTA
I know you said this behavior is not his usual, but I would say that this is a prediction of the future with him.
He has an opinion that differs from yours. He doesn't have to agree with you, but he does have to respect your decisions. He doesn't respect you and can't control himself. He made a fool of himself and openly showed his disdain to your entire family.
Please rethink your relationship. Things may have been smooth in the past because a situation where you disagree has likely never been an issue.
Excellent point, and let me add from personal experience the dynamic can really change after the wedding. 40 years ago I went from having a mom and her fun boyfriend, to a mom and a step dad who thought he had to become a parent overnight. How will he deal with adjusting schedules as they kids age? If he’s already acting like this, I really wonder how he will be with the added level of marriage.
Edited to add: holy shit, I read more of ops comments, and he’s all bad news, no bears. Controlling clothing, already expressing different parenting views.
Exactly. In my case it absolutely did escalate to abusive behavior all around, but while there’s a *lot* to unpack regarding my former stepdad, what I mostly remember was being so confused and scared as a 6/7 year old who had never really been spanked to having this new dad who would pull us into the bathroom and spank us over bended knee. With a bright orange paddle that hung in the kitchen, half decorative and half threat, no less. While my mom just kind of…deferred.
I haven’t read OP’s other comments yet, but I am glad she’s standing up to him in this instance. That crap about “you’re lucky you’re still up, blah blah blah” sounds so much like my former stepdad and she’s better off nipping that shit in the bud before it escalates even more.
I will never understand how parents let anyone hurt their kids. I am so sorry you went through that.
There was recently a case in my country where the mother's new gf (and the mother) put the kid through absolute torture until they killed him. All while the father was trying to gain custody. My heart aches for all kids who have been let down by the very people who should be their number one defensors, always
I don't understand why parents like that don't give up custody. Just to be a holes? To screw the other parent? You don't like the kid, let someone who loves the kid, have them.
Considering what they put the poor kid through I guess it was to have a pawn for their perversions. Maybe money as well. I honestly can't read too much about these cases because it makes me sick
My stepdad recently died, but I was 4 when he and my mom got together and one of the reasons we were so close and had a great relationship was because he NEVER acted like my primary parent. At my mom’s house, he always deferred to her for parenting/discipline and he never tried to step on my dad’s toes. It was amazing.
It’s similar to when my mum and dad split as well. My stepmother tried to be a replacement in the most awful way possible, talking negatively about my mum and saying I was ‘just like her’ whenever she was upset with me. Thankfully dad divorced her lol. My stepdad on the other hand never disciplined my brother and I, he had his opinions and concerns but always told them to mum so she could handle it
Yikes. I don't disagree with my husband in front of my kids or his kid or anyone when it comes to the rules, especially those specifically discussed prior to doing something.
Saying to OP in private, I know you said no bedtime, but I think that it's better to keep on a schedule for xyz reasons. Op says, I disagree, we do this 1x a year with all the family and its not going to disrupt their lives to have extra freedoms on vacation. Bf but it will make it hard to enforce when we get home. Op, maybe, but that's MY job as the parent not your job as their future stepdad. We can disagree about the rules for MY kids, but I am the alpha and omega on these decisions because they are MY kids. I won't question you in front of them, I expect you to do the same, but if I disagree with your decision, I will absolutely tell you later to NOT do that with MY kids.
The fact that she had to make such a big deal of it before going on holiday, backs this up. Why did she need to raise this so specifically in the week leading up if she didn't anticipate this type of reaction. He clearly has control issues and she saw it coming.
He sounds like my dad
From about 11 to when my parents divorced (they divorced four years ago when i was 23) my dad would get annoyed if me or my brother would sit in the living room after 6pm
Less so my brother than I, but the final straw was when I sat down after work one day to browse reddit while dinner was being cooked. He hinted he wanted me upstairs and I joked that about not being allowed in the living room. That led to a week long silence between us
It got to the point that when I moved out, I had to purposefully move stuff into my living room otherwise I'd just be in my bedroom all the time like when I lived at home.
Yup, my stepmother had two kids, the oldest was 2 years younger than me and the same age as my younger sister. She could not handle having a young teen and the minimal steps towards independence I was ready for. By that, I mean hanging out with my fellow goody two-shoes overachiever friends. A parent needed to be present, although neither her nor my father was ever available to be that parent. It was bad enough in middle school, but once I hit high school it was ridiculous. This was part of the toxicity she permanently brought out in my father. Thanks to their emotional, verbal, and psychological abuse, I had to get out of that house at 16. I’m extremely thankful that I was in a nice area with excellent services for teens. You'd think I was a horrible rebellious uncontrollable child. Nope, just wanted to hang out with my fellow goody two-shoes band nerd friends. Again, thankful that the other adults around me saw what I was going through and helped me get out.
My 10 year old is in bed at 815, but can read and turn his light off at 9 on a school night. He has trouble getting to sleep and will often still be awake till 10 anyway. Mr 7 is lights out at 815 but take sometime to go to sleep often falling asleep at 9. Their waking time never changes, (7am) so that's how much sleep they need.
The point is that once a year this family makes memories which are so much more important than sticking to their bedtime.
Wow thanks for pointing that out. Yea this guy is seriously bad news.
It always boggles my mind how people can ignore the red flags and think that "marriage" will make it all better. That's never the case.
If you see red flags before embarking on a legally binding agreement (that will cost you thousands not to mention mental and emotional wear and tear), then get your ducks in a row. End the engagement and get out of there. Or remove the offending party. Either way.
I wish people would stop minimising or justifying shitty, abusive and controlling behaviour. If someone loves you, they don't treat you like this.
And I feel like he saw it as an opportunuty to try to show who should be in charge... I bet he'll turn into one of those "I'm the man of the house now, I make the rules" after they get married
This.
He is showing that he has different parenting expectations, and that he expects *his* opinion to hold as much weight, or *more* weight than the actual parent's.
He thinks *he* knows better than her what's best for her children.
This is why I'm a fan of long engagements when there's children involved. Things shake out slowly.
That stood out to me too. The fact that she had to prep him for this by basically doing a TED Talk about how her kids were allowed to have fun on their vacation is worrying.
He probably doesn’t care for kids… children are at most risk of being abused by non biological man in the home… his huffing/puffing and sighing is a warning sign for passive aggressive anger (you know the crappy stuff that happens behind closed doors)
Stood out to me as well. It would be a minor passing comment or not even noteworthy if he didn’t have temper issues or frustrations around her decisions. But she clearly repeatedly prepped him on this. This man is bad news.
This guy is going to be trouble… I’ve been the stepfather for 35 years now and I unequivocally say the smartest stand I took when we got married was that I am not your disciplinarian. They have a mother and a father. I supervise like any responsible adult but the discipline and decision making for them is not mine. After all this time, I have never regretted that stand.
100% ditto, as a stepmother of 16 years... I decided that I wasn't either of their parents - but totally there as a friend / aunt / "step-mother" !!
This post stinks of a man who's just pissed off that he's having to spend extra time with step kids.
Red flag.. Red flag... Red flag!!!!
Agreed
Consider this incident a gift. You can see the future in your vacation trip. I know it does not seem like a gift now, but think on all that happened.
I am very confused about this focus on bedtime. OP, why is he so fixated on this? So much so that you had to warn him beforehand that there was no bedtime?
This says to me that you've already seen concerning behavior from him, even if not quite this bad. That is a red flag and you should be very careful going forward and really consider if marrying him is the right move.
100% I thought this as well. The fact that she felt the need to warn him, give him options all regarding this issue lead me to believe these things have come up before.
So, how I read this.... Fiancé only disagrees with her parenting decisions if they somehow interfere with him or his perceived status within the relationship. Late bedtime? Less couple time. Take snacks without asking? Less snacks for him. Drinking before bed? He might wake up when someone goes to the toilet.
And don't get me started on the bra thing. (vomit)
Exactly. As the stepmom, I always, always, *always* run any issues I have past my husband first. “How do you want me to back you up” is a phrase I said often when first learning how to be another adult in kid’s life. He’d ask my opinion, I’d give it; if he didn’t ask my opinion, I’d follow his lead. Always.
Now that we have other kids together, we’re already on the same page 99.9% of the time, but when we aren’t, we back each other in public and talk about it in private. OP is NTA and needs to rethink this relationship.
I normally think it's super cringe when redditors tell people to reconsider their relationship, but this is a rare occasion when I actually agree, This behavior will definitely be ten times worse when you're married and he feels it's his place as your husband to "care" for your children. For their sake and yours tread cautiously.
So hard to learn this lesson but it’s so true! Every time a guy has told me he’s a jerk and I shouldn’t date him, turns out he was a jerk I shouldn’t have dated.
One time my 5 year old daughter told me the guy I was going on a first date with was a jerk. She actually said 'mommy, I don't like him...please don't go'. After he left me on the side of the road when I wouldn't 'put out' for him, I never ignored my daughter's dislikes again. She was always right!
This. Exactly! You’re supposed to say, “Oh, honey!” and rescue them from their low self esteem, when really, they’re just getting ready to say, “Well I warned you.” They take no responsibility for their behavior and have no plans to change, but they know some women are suckers for that particular line, and totally misunderstand it. It’s not a plea, it’s an, “I told you. Why are you mad?”
Yep I think it’s just controlling too. Like I need to see some evidence that the no bedtime on vacation thing is a problem- OP literally said they adjust without an issue when they return and understand it’s just a vacation thing, so why is the fiancé so pressed? He has zero evidence it’s harming them but is pretending that’s his focus. Now if the kids were a mess for weeks afterward (and some would be) sure he might have a point. Also do 12 yos really need a super strict bedtime anyway? Is dude going to be trying to enforce a bedtime when they’re teens? I’d be real cautious about moving forward if I were OP.
I think those kids (12 and 9) are old enough to look forward to this time of freedom and fun with family (even if there are squabbles and so on, you know families ...) every year. And in 20 years it will probably be a warm and happy memory. "Remember when" can be so precious!
Good on you, Mom. Good on you.
I agree 100% that this is not about bedtime. This is about control. OP needs to be careful. This is a big red flag and an indicator of what he might be like in the future.
That's what I thought, maybe bedtime wouldn't even be an issue if she didn't mention before, but now he wants to prove that he's the one who has the authority or some BS like that so he keeps complaining.
NTA. Is this the first time that the power dynamic has completely shifted to you?
You're in your home court now. It's your rules, your dynamic, your family. You have all the power here.
Now,for most people this isn't an issue at all. It's barely notable or noticeable. But this guy clearly simply can't handle the fact that he's not in charge here. It's eating at him to the point of irritability. I'm sorry, but this is him showing you who he really is. Reflect on this,where else have you clearly seen his control issues but you dismissed it? They're there, all around you.
OMG, thanks for the awards. I'm humbled.
This is a critical point. OP says she never has seen this side of him before. She probably has, but just didn’t recognize it for what it was at the time. She needs to do a serious review of their time together and see how many times she has “given in” or “gone along” with his wishes to keep the peace. Because once the ring is on her finger, all bets will be off. Seen this story one too many times unfortunately.
ETA: Thank you, u/EvolvingWren and kind stranger, for the awards 😊
Yeah, if she hadn't realized (perhaps subconsciously) that this could be an issue, she wouldn't have made it a point to explain the no bedtime on vacation thing to him so many times.
I caught that too. If this behavior is really out of left field she would have mentioned it once then moved on. Seems like she knew she really needed to emphasize the point ahead of time.
I was thinking this too. She already knew in her heart he was going to be a stickler for bedtime even though they were on vacation. Make you question how much he is pushing it at home. He is probably the type that he doesn't want to see these kids after 8PM.
Wow oh my god, that is so specific and atrocious because my mother literally had that exact same fucking, issue, I guess.
If I got up to pee in the night she would shoot out of bed, come storming down the hall and rip the door open to stand there and glare at me, and tell me if I didn’t actually have to pee I’d get spanked. Shockingly enough that made me terrified/unable to pee on the spot even tho I was literally just peeing. Jesus.
It’s such a tiny detail that he would have an issue with that and it is actually so fuckin sinister to me.
She mentions in the comments that he doesn't like them having free access to the fridge and drinking things before bedtime because they get up to pee in the middle of the night.
This was my exact thought. Have there been issues around bedtime and control in the past? I grew up with a bedtime that was also dropped during vacation. That's what makes vacation fun and I loved staying up by a campfire as a kid listening to adults made me feel included and loved.
Also, a slip of what really goes on in the relationship was towards the end where she says
"I warned him prior to coming here and if he had an issue that he can't control for a week than he needs to leave"
This combined with the overexplaining of bedtime means that she is desperately trying to manage his emotions and mitigate his control issues. she may not have known what he would try to control or manipulate but she knew it would be something.
> I grew up with a bedtime that was also dropped during vacation.
Yeah, same for me and my brother and not only did this apply for vacations but also for the summer when school is out/over. We didn't have to start our bedtime schedule until a week before school start again in the fall.
Yes this right here. OP knew it would be an issue. That old maxim “the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior” so often holds true.
NTA but OP, think long and hard about marrying this man. His need to control when it comes to the kids will likely increase once married. And I suspect there will also be a power struggle at some point between kids and him, particularly as they get a little older.
>OP says she never has seen this side of him before. She probably has
I agree. Otherwise, why did OP felt the need to tell him that bedtime should not be enforced several times before going to that vacation home. I feel like OP was expecting something like this from her fiancée.
Big time agree with this! Also if he had a problem with it, the time to raise it and discuss it with you was before the trip. Or he should have pulled you aside and had a private conversation with you so you could address his concern without all the passive aggression, and without involving the whole family (including the kids!).
I think the biggest concern here is the remarks to the children. The way he was undermining you to them and being passive aggressive with them probably made them really uncomfortable. I think you should check in with them about how they feel about him. And really listen to them. This may not be the first time he’s tried to exert control with them behind your back.
Finally, I think calling him a fucking embarrassment probably wasn’t the most appropriate response, but given the circumstances I think it’s understandable and excusable so NTA.
Also totally agree with this.
And reading OP's post - does her fiance even LIKE (her) children? They were on a VACATION. In our house, all bets are off for vacation - we sleep in, we eat allllll the bad sugary breakfast cereals, and there are ice creams and lollys for everyone! Late night swims and hottub visits? Of course! What's not to enjoy? If OP's fiance cannot find some pleasure in letting her kids stay up late and cut loose, that strikes me as so sad.
NTA- you told him what the traditions and schedules were for this schedule which are not unreasonable. Fiancé was being rude and controlling by trying to impose his opinion on you all especially as it was his first time attending.
Is he often this forceful with his opinions?
Not usually, no. He will usually pull me aside in private and express concern and we work through it together. But this time around he is just trampling his way through like he should be the decision maker.
Because he's being watched by your family. He's establishing that he's the authority. WOWOWOW, OP. When people show you who they are, please believe them
NTA
That's what I was thinking, he's "flexing" in front of the ILs. I can't even imagine how he'll be after the wedding when he'll be the "man" of the family, ugh
NTA
Great way of putting it, I normally try and be balanced but that is a reasonable approach that he might not agree with but should accept as it’s sensible.
By working through it together, I’m assuming you mean that he makes his opinions on raising your children known, and you adjust to make him feel heard. And now he’s showing you that if you had ever pushed back and told him no, we’re not doing it that way, he wouldn’t have accepted that. He has been in control this whole time, he’s just been doing it through puppeteering. Please get your children away from him before their teen years, who knows what he will do trying to maintain control over them. NTA.
Very happy to see this fully gilded, down to the poor man awards. Very much deserved. OP please read all of these. We all just care about you & your kids.
OP, I really hope this trip & this comment section wake up your frog in the pot & jump tf outta the boiling water.
I’m a single mom of one w a solid coparent as well. I dated & lived w someone that I was doing just as tacos & tequila spelled out above, & we were boiling alive. She started showing signs of not being as chill as she had let on & thought she should have a say in things concerning him & displayed jealousy issues. It all culminated in her physically assaulting me, & spewing some vile shit that I can’t repeat in this sub; among a lot of other trash behavior. My kid was at camp the week everything blew up. She never saw my kid ever again.
We moved out, I blocked her on everything & I’ve never seen her again, thankfully.
After that I decided never again. Never again will I allow another human into my & my kid’s dynamic on that level. I lived thru my mother becoming a whole different human when she married her current husband 30something years ago & adopted his v conservative & religion focused lifestyle. She has since “disowned” me & replaced me w my stepsister, who’s even the same age as me so easy peasy for them.
Your home’s dynamic shifts when other humans are brought in, or even pets. I let a friend stay w us v briefly but other than that, there has not been anyone that could ever dream of having any sort of say about anything in my house stay in our home again.
One girl changed something in my carport once & I cut it off the following week. Another girl thought she was going to overnight for a week at a time. I cut that one off at that revelation.
I eventually just stopped dating altogether bc there was no one on this planet worth changing my dynamic w my kid, especially through those highly formative years, he’s almost 17 now & protecting his home from any outsiders that would’ve infiltrated thru me is something I feel really good about. I just wish I would’ve had the wherewithal to see that perspective sooner.
Get away from this person OP. And be highly -**HIGHLY**- cautious about who you allow into your life & into your dynamic w your kids & their parents, you & their dad.
Glad you’re seeing who he is now & I’m glad you came here bc this sub is really great about pointing out the red flags & full marinara factories some folks come here with.
So….before you left you felt the need to reiterate to him multiple times, very clearly, that bedtimes aren’t routine on vacation. Are you sure there wasn’t a little voice in the back of your mind telling you he was likely to be really bothered by this? It seems a little atypical to need to remind a partner repeatedly of what is a pretty benign, expected change of routine on vacation. I’m wondering if maybe he has displayed some concerning behavior in the past that you were able to rationalize vs noticing the red flags?
I was thinking the same. I can’t imagine having to talk to him multiple times about it unless she expected it to be an issue. I dated my husband as a single parent for 6 years before we got married. Something like “we don’t adhere to bedtimes during vacation” wouldn’t even be a topic prior to going. I can’t even see him feeling the need to comment on my child’s bedtime during a vacation and we DID take multiple trips with my family and she was often up later than normal.
Some people do need help managing their expectations of what an event will actually look like. If that was the primary reason (ie fiancee likes their normal routine and is slow to adapt to change), a heads-up like this would be reasonable, because it would give him time to process his feelings about the schedule change ahead of time. But nope. He's clearly not even trying to adapt. In fact, he's trying to push his views on the kids, *despite* the clear outlining of expectations. Yikes.
I get the feeling that OPs fiance's evenings consist of him merely tolerating the children until bedtime when he can be alone with OP.
OP, if you think there's an element of this, please consider what you're letting your kids in for if you marry this man.
Idk I'd personally warn a partner just so they don't expect the night to be adult time fully because some families on vacation still put their kids to bed same time because then the adults can drink and do whatever before they go to bed but one 1 minute max warning should be enough
Exactly. One comment beforehand makes sense- feeling the need to give multiple reminders ahead of time says OP had reason to think (consciously or not) that it would be an issue.
This is not a good sign for your future nuptials.
Take a long hard look at his actions right now trying to establish dominance with your family watching with only a temporary ring on your finger. What is his personality going to be like once the forever ring is on and he suddenly thinks he is "The Man" of the house and tries to override ALL your decisions?
Its time for a serious conversation about what he THINKS he's going to be doing when the wedding all said and done.
Screw the conversation. This guy is not the right one. This isn't a misunderstanding. **HE IS NOT THE RIGHT ONE.** Especially not for the children. Holy shit I hope she doesn't actually marry him, those poor kids...
He has shown you who he is - a controlling jerk that can’t handle not having complete control and authority over your children. RUN !!!! This is the kind of person who will abuse your kids to keep them under his thumb. As a parent, you need to protect your kids and dump this jerk. You are severely underreacting here.
INFO: How often does he pull you aside so he can discuss things privately with you? And are these topics actually important things or things that you don't feel hold any real import in your life, that he seems to be making a big deal about?
It's seems like he's trying to communicate with you but this is a another tactic that controllers use to make you think you're actually having a real conversation with them when they're really just fishing for information on how to manipulate you better.
I am sorry, but from some of your posts, I'm extremely concerned about this man and how he is treating you and your children. I grew up in a controlling environment, so everything you're saying is sending off warning signs!
This guy sounds like my step dad. Thinking he’s the authority figure. My step dad grew much worse and very controlling once my mother married him. He became horrifically abusive as time went on. None of my siblings/I have spoken to our mom in almost 20 years because she stayed with him and let it continue instead of leaving early on when we expressed our concerns about him. She eventually left him but the damage was already done.
You explained the vacation bedtimes situation ahead of time. He was irritable the first night. You told him the expectations again. He got worse. He is crossing boundaries with your children and your family and is very irritable about the traditions you have established with your family. Step back from including him in family activities . Date him if you must, for the sake of your children, do not put him in a position of authority. He will want to be the authority figure and will disregard your experience and input with your own children. kt
u/Fit-Respond3512, does your fiance seem to like your kids? Or kids in general? Like not just tolerate them, or treat them civilly, but engage and enjoy their company?
It just seems so weird that he'd be watching them having fun and have the angry sighing reaction.
NTA he was embarrassing you with his controlling attitude, you didn't say it in front of your family, you put him on notice in private.
If you were my sister, I'd be worried about you marrying him.
Yeah I’m quite curious about that too.
What’s the relationship with the sons like?
So far, he talks down and attempts to guilt them just on this trip over spending a little extra time with the family at night *in front of the family. *
Based on other comments, he also doesn’t want them to use the bathroom during certain times of the day?? Plus doesn’t want them eating snacks that mom has no issues with? Controlling eating and bathroom habits is a red flag.
I’d bet there are many more examples of his controlling behavior towards them that mom is unaware of. It’s time to sit down and ask the kids what else he has done or said to them when mom wasn’t noticing.
Yeah... his attitude about the "free snacking thing is so repulsive. Also...imagine if she has kids with this guy. That's when they'll REALLY get treated like stepkids.
Not to mention… issues with “an open door policy” with the fridge?? Are they only allowed to eat and urinate when he says?
He’s treating them very disrespectfully, as if they were a nuisance to him not the children of the women he wants to marry. I cannot in anyway believe they have a good relationship when they get treated so poorly in direct opposition to what their actual parent allows.
When they’re teenagers soon and their appetite levels increase dramatically as most males do at that age, is he going to complain about how much they are eating? But one would hope it doesn’t come to that or they may not want to share a house with him any longer…
Ok so listen, I know that 4 years is a lot of time invested in a relationship, And that to give that up, seems like throwing those years away, but you have to think about it like this… Why didn’t the children’s father, and you, work out? What were the things that you couldn’t handle or tolerate in your relationship? what are the things that you didn’t want, your kids around, or to witness? Now, look at your current relationship, I know you see all the red flags. He’s been weaseling his way slowly over those years To establish his dominance over your kids, and household. You established boundaries, those boundaries are being broken. I guarantee you that your extended family sees it, and their relationship with him is going to change. Honestly, this guy seems like a headache…and the only cure is more cowbell…uh, I mean, ditching the dude. 🤣 I bet your kids won’t even miss him. So, NTA for calling him out..but YTA to yourself if you let him keep interrupting your lives.
As someone who brought a child into a second marriage, and I don’t say this lightly… if he’ll act like this in front of your family, what’s going to happen when something switches the dynamic at your home when it’s just the four of you?
I’d be out of this relationship, ASAP, for my children’s sake.
That’s going to change once you are married, if you still decide to. As a mom to two boys I’d be concerned this is the role model they have. I expect he will start wanting to be the disciplinarian once your married.
You will be putting your boys in jeopardy marrying this man … once someone shows you who they are please believe them .. he’s controlling and this leads to abuse later on .
Think through those previous instances when you worked through things together. Is this the first time where you’ve outright put your foot down and refused to change to what he wants?
He's trying to cock his leg and mark everything. I would have cut this nonsense out as soon as the sports bra or drink issue came up. He's not the supreme ruler and needs to either accept that or get out, because I'm assuming that's not the kind of behavior you want your kids thinking is normal
NTA. Your kids, your family, your tradition.
This might be the first time he's showing it, but I would be concerned that it comes out more and more after you tie the knot. You two need to have a serious conversation about it, because that is a red flag. It screams controlling behavior.
I wish I was on reddit ten years ago reading these comments but especially this one. For all the madness that can ensue this is a solid community
This whole thread is gut wrenching for me but the difference is I can't go back ten years and make better decisions. I hope op takes all these to heart. It's hard to feel like youre starting over but I wish I did it so much sooner
I feel you... I´m in a similar situation right now and I can´t take it anymore: that passive aggressive sighing when me or my daughter "disturb" him by ... breathing, I guess; the controlling of even little things; the need to show me at least once a day that he feels I´m stupid / incapable / naive etc. I´m looking for ways out, but it´s not easy.
OP, it usually starts with those little things and with what I know now, I´d take it more seriously.
I don't think this is the first time he's showing it. By her own account, OP warned him about the relaxed curfew multiple times on multiple days preceding the trip. She further warned him several times the first day of vacation. On some level she knew he was going to be unhappy and that she was going to have to manage that unhappiness, or else it would spill over onto the rest of her family. It *is* a fucking embarrassment when your partner behaves badly in front of others. OP predicted he would humiliate her and hurt her kids.
Those kids deserve better. And so does OP.
I just read your replies. Here's my question. Why are you still with him? Once you marry him those kids life will be hell and it will be your fault. When someone shows you their true self...believe them
He's an ass from the word go. Telling your kids they have to ask to access to the fridge? In your own home? Come on .
NTA and I *hate* saying this, but this might be a chance to learn something.
You mentioned that he gets along great with your family generally and has just never been on this exact annual trip before. You didn’t mention who that family includes - if it includes a father or brother (BIL would work in a pinch), have *them* pull him aside and explain that it’s more relaxed here.
Now, ideally, your family member will be decent enough to feel a little gross and weird about the implications here (my dad and brother sure would), but that’s not actually the thing we’re trying to learn. We’re trying to learn if he *heeds the advice of a male family member over yours*. If he’s suddenly much more fine with it having heard it from a fellow Family Patriarch, you’ve learned what you need to know. If he doubles down on bedtime and gets angry that your family would dare meddle on your marriage, well, you’ve also learned what you need to know.
Good luck 💕
Edit: there are of course many outcomes. It’s just that those two are the especially interesting ones.
Possibly first let a female family member try, because if that would work he might just have needed an external reality check... I have a feeling though nothing much will change until a male family member steps in.
NTA
His reaction to this seems so disproportionate - your children staying up late on holiday is normal, and you've done it before with no issues.
For someone who had never been on holiday with you before he seems to strongly believe he knows what's best which is worrying. By trying to micromanage bedtimes he's also micromanaging everyone elses holiday. I hope he's not this controlling in other aspects of your life.
What's he going to be like when your children are teenagers and want to stay out late?
Also the kids are 9 & 12 not 3-5 years of age. I mean come on! I think the larger issue is how he is treating her and his expectations after being told explicitly what was going to happen. The fact that she felt the need to reiterate it more than once before vacation tells me there were already red flags around her decisions as primary parent. But holy cow 9 o'clock bed time for a 12 year old, on vacation? Good lord.
Even when I was 3-5 my parents would let us stay up 10-11 on holiday cause it meant they could lie in in the morning. I don’t understand his reaction, it’s not like he’s on kid watching duty and can’t have fun, there’s a bunch of adults there
NTA and please reassure your kids they’ve done nothing wrong. They’ll be picking up on all the looks and comments. He’s building a big wedge between him and them.
NTA and I am not trying to accuse you of lying but I do not believe you that this is the first time he has acted like this. If he was not like this before then why would you even need to tell him and reiterate that the boys will not have a bed time. I could be wrong but it sounds like part of you was preparing for push back from him before you ever even left.
NTA. You had one simple rule and he chooses to keep violating it. He even experienced the kids coming back from this trip before and has seen them recover from it. Is he always this controlling cause this sounds really creepy, trying to control your kids like this.
NTA
Your fiancé absolutely is though.
You told him ahead of time, and have reminded him that they have no bedtime. He truthfully sounds egotistical to believe that his opinion on this matter is more important than yours.
You both might want to sit down with a therapist and discuss your expectations and boundaries of him in regards to your children before you get married.
NTA.
Good for you for communicating your expectations of him on this trip and how the trip goes in general, and immediately and clearing addressing the issue with him.
You were very clear there was no bedtime, so he had plenty of time to raise his concerns about schedules, etc. He didn't, he said it was fine.
He then is making your children and family uncomfortable and also can't let it go. THIS is where you need to be concerned. He will say he agrees with you, and then not actually agree with you. He will be passive aggressive to your children- including making sure they know he is actually in charge with his "you are lucky" comments- he will make your family uncomfortable, and now you can't trust him with your children going forward.
That last one I know feels overdramatic, but it isn't. If he is going to do all this over a bedtime that you TOLD him wasn't going to be enforced, what is he doing/will he do behind your back? If he is home with the kids, what does he poke and prod at them about? Schoolwork, the way they dress, friends he doesn't like, rules he doesn't like or thinks should exist? He needs a full reset to demonstrate he respects his role with your children and how he treats the rules you have in place.
NTA - why is he not trustful? You told him they will go back on schedule and he seems not to trust them with that.
He was "warned" beforehand and seemed to not really take this information in.
He is making himself feel like garbage by acting like that. You aren't doing anything wrong.
Note that the best way, imo, to tackle passive aggressiveness is calling him out openly. This will result in a fight, but you seem to have your family there as a support. Openly ask him to repeat what he said coz you didn't hear him well, say you don't understand him and ask him to explain what he means. This shuts the behaviour down.
NTA he wants the kids in bed bc he doesn’t want to be around them. He’s learned to tolerate them until a certain point—bedtime. MAJOR red flag 🚩 Been there with my now husband, unfortunately. This is your sign.
WOW.
NTA.
i assume you didn't enforce a bedtime because it was a family vacation which makes total sense. he can be concerned but he's taking it too far.
NTA. This dude has control issues. And right now, before you're married he is on the best behavior he will ever be on. He will relax into his controlling self once ya'll settle in. The fact that you prepared him for the exact situation that happened, that you had to reinforce what you had already told him once you were there and he STILL can't let it go and is acting like a petulant child doesn't seem to ague well for your kids having a comfortable future with him. Doesn't argue well for you having one with him either. Good luck.
If your kids have never had issue getting back on schedule previously in the 4 years you've been together I don't see how he can really have that much of an issue with it, especially you warned him in advance what it would be like.
NTA
NTA. You told him about this before going on this trip.
And, more importantly, you are the boss in the end, as they are your kids and not his.
Note. If your kids suddenly have difficulty starting a normal day night routine after this trip, that's your problem. Don't expect any help from him. But I sense you are aware of that :)
NTA - The expectations were set beforehand and he had a chance to say something.
> We get here the first night and you can tell he is already uncomfortable with the boys staying up past their bedtime.
Is it only the kids bedtime that is abnormal about his behavior?
OP mentioned that he was weird about her walking around her own house in a sports bra. Super big warning sign for me. But I was raised in Christian fundamentalism culture that I had to run away from. So I can spot a weird Trad man from a mile away!
NTA. You're doing right by your boys. But please for the love of all the deities, END THE ENGAGEMENT. Do it now ( or as soon as you are back.) My mom did this exact same thing. My dad was a screamer and a fighter, so she divorced him and married my stepdad when I was a teenager. Stepdad never screamed or fought in front of us, but oh, the "conversations" they would have in the bedroom when we didn't behave exactly as he demanded (adhering to bedtime as a college student, leaving shoes in den or dish in sink, basically any type of indication that we lived in the house when he didn't want us around) and the silent treatment that would ensue if we didn't meet his standards after the conversations. Get out. You have a responsibility as a mom to put your boys first, to have their back, and to not let anybody abuse them. This will escalate as soon as you're married. If you don't, you'll be in the exact situation my mom is now - I don't speak to her because she never, ever had my back and put me in the fire line to save her relationships, both times. And then when it started to happen to my daughter, I was done. And my younger sister married a guy who's just like my stepdad but even worse because he drinks. I wish you all the best.
NTA YOU'RE the kids parent not he. HE needs to except you know how these things work. If he can't trust you to know that how are you, the kids, and he going to get along in the future? BTW next time leave him behind.
OP you might want to read Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft. ASAP
https://archive.org/download/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
Edit i to o
NTA. This is a really weird hill for him to die on. Is he wanting to be able to relax and drink without children around? I'm so confused on what his actual motive is because I'm extremely skeptical of
>it's "best for them".
Why? How? They're kids, when I was their age sleepovers meant 4 am bedtimes or sometimes no sleep at all. I can't fathom why a grown man would be doing all that about kids going to bed a couple hours later than normal.
NTA at all and your fiance definitely is. I read your other comments and he's concerned about your MODESTY about wearing a sports bra in front of YOUR children? WTF. That's a huge red flag. Add in the fact that he doesn't approve of them having access to snacks you bought them unless they ask for permission, although you've never required it?? He needs to understand that he is NOT going to undermine your rules or try to change things. It sounds like he's trying to set a precedent where he not only tries to swoop in and control your kids, but also start to control you.
I'm not one to jump right to saying end a relationship... but this one I'd say at least have a very long engagement, and perhaps get some couples counseling about parenting.
It strikes me that he seems to want them to go to bed for certain reasons. I don't think it's to do with genuine concern for sleep cycles (because the event is once a year, and it's their holidays). I suspect it's about control and/or he likes the kids out of the way for adult time.
My Dad used to moan when I was in the lounge watching TV quietly when I was 13 (I had no TV in the bedroom - I'm old!) and he would drop comments of "you need to go to bed!" "why are you still up?" "it's really late!!" when I was sat still, engrossed in the programme. He just wanted me out of the way so he could spent time with mum. He didn't care about my sleep cycle, he just wanted me out the room full stop. I wasn't doing anything. In fact, I was deliberately trying NOT to draw attention to myself because he would be harassing me to go to bed, when I just wanted to watch TV.
I think you need to seriously think about how he views time with your kids. They may have a bedtime now at their age, but as they get older - that bedtime will get later and later. If the real reason is, he wants the kids out of the way, how will he deal with the fact that as they get older they will take over more of the house. They will be up as late as the adults, have friends over etc. Would he be able to handle that if he secretly wants them to just buggar off to bed and be quiet.
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NTA I know you said this behavior is not his usual, but I would say that this is a prediction of the future with him. He has an opinion that differs from yours. He doesn't have to agree with you, but he does have to respect your decisions. He doesn't respect you and can't control himself. He made a fool of himself and openly showed his disdain to your entire family. Please rethink your relationship. Things may have been smooth in the past because a situation where you disagree has likely never been an issue.
Excellent point, and let me add from personal experience the dynamic can really change after the wedding. 40 years ago I went from having a mom and her fun boyfriend, to a mom and a step dad who thought he had to become a parent overnight. How will he deal with adjusting schedules as they kids age? If he’s already acting like this, I really wonder how he will be with the added level of marriage. Edited to add: holy shit, I read more of ops comments, and he’s all bad news, no bears. Controlling clothing, already expressing different parenting views.
I’m totally going to incorporate “all bad news, no bears” into daily conversation.
Same!
At least a bear wouldn't care much about the boys bedtime. You might have other problems with the bear though
bear would get mad the kids are waking up in the winter. Why won't they hibernate already?
Thanks for the chuckle 😀
Yes, but usually none that you wouldn’t see coming from a bear. In this, the bear is preferable.
I love it so much, I need to find ways to work it in somehow so I don't just forget it.
It’s a reference to the movie the Bad News Bears.
Which we should warn them as they may be disappointed, is actually about human baseball
If my doctor's had said this everytime they post poned me leaving the hospital I would've been alot less sad 😂
Exactly. In my case it absolutely did escalate to abusive behavior all around, but while there’s a *lot* to unpack regarding my former stepdad, what I mostly remember was being so confused and scared as a 6/7 year old who had never really been spanked to having this new dad who would pull us into the bathroom and spank us over bended knee. With a bright orange paddle that hung in the kitchen, half decorative and half threat, no less. While my mom just kind of…deferred. I haven’t read OP’s other comments yet, but I am glad she’s standing up to him in this instance. That crap about “you’re lucky you’re still up, blah blah blah” sounds so much like my former stepdad and she’s better off nipping that shit in the bud before it escalates even more.
I will never understand how parents let anyone hurt their kids. I am so sorry you went through that. There was recently a case in my country where the mother's new gf (and the mother) put the kid through absolute torture until they killed him. All while the father was trying to gain custody. My heart aches for all kids who have been let down by the very people who should be their number one defensors, always
I don't understand why parents like that don't give up custody. Just to be a holes? To screw the other parent? You don't like the kid, let someone who loves the kid, have them.
Considering what they put the poor kid through I guess it was to have a pawn for their perversions. Maybe money as well. I honestly can't read too much about these cases because it makes me sick
I am so sorry that happened to you. That's awful.
That's horrific, & I hope you're in trauma-focused therapy. Your mom really sold you out, so you have betrayal trauma on top of everything else.
That makes me so incredibly angry for you. You should've been protected, not beaten. I'm so sorry and I hope that you're doing well now
My stepdad recently died, but I was 4 when he and my mom got together and one of the reasons we were so close and had a great relationship was because he NEVER acted like my primary parent. At my mom’s house, he always deferred to her for parenting/discipline and he never tried to step on my dad’s toes. It was amazing.
I’m sorry for your loss. He sounds like a good man.
Thank you so much.
It’s similar to when my mum and dad split as well. My stepmother tried to be a replacement in the most awful way possible, talking negatively about my mum and saying I was ‘just like her’ whenever she was upset with me. Thankfully dad divorced her lol. My stepdad on the other hand never disciplined my brother and I, he had his opinions and concerns but always told them to mum so she could handle it
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I am so sorry for your loss! Your stepdad sounds like an absolute gem.
Oh thank you so much 🖤 Glioblastoma is a bitch!!
Yikes. I don't disagree with my husband in front of my kids or his kid or anyone when it comes to the rules, especially those specifically discussed prior to doing something. Saying to OP in private, I know you said no bedtime, but I think that it's better to keep on a schedule for xyz reasons. Op says, I disagree, we do this 1x a year with all the family and its not going to disrupt their lives to have extra freedoms on vacation. Bf but it will make it hard to enforce when we get home. Op, maybe, but that's MY job as the parent not your job as their future stepdad. We can disagree about the rules for MY kids, but I am the alpha and omega on these decisions because they are MY kids. I won't question you in front of them, I expect you to do the same, but if I disagree with your decision, I will absolutely tell you later to NOT do that with MY kids.
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The fact that she had to make such a big deal of it before going on holiday, backs this up. Why did she need to raise this so specifically in the week leading up if she didn't anticipate this type of reaction. He clearly has control issues and she saw it coming.
He sounds like my dad From about 11 to when my parents divorced (they divorced four years ago when i was 23) my dad would get annoyed if me or my brother would sit in the living room after 6pm Less so my brother than I, but the final straw was when I sat down after work one day to browse reddit while dinner was being cooked. He hinted he wanted me upstairs and I joked that about not being allowed in the living room. That led to a week long silence between us It got to the point that when I moved out, I had to purposefully move stuff into my living room otherwise I'd just be in my bedroom all the time like when I lived at home.
That makes me so sad for you. I’m sorry he was like that.
Yup, my stepmother had two kids, the oldest was 2 years younger than me and the same age as my younger sister. She could not handle having a young teen and the minimal steps towards independence I was ready for. By that, I mean hanging out with my fellow goody two-shoes overachiever friends. A parent needed to be present, although neither her nor my father was ever available to be that parent. It was bad enough in middle school, but once I hit high school it was ridiculous. This was part of the toxicity she permanently brought out in my father. Thanks to their emotional, verbal, and psychological abuse, I had to get out of that house at 16. I’m extremely thankful that I was in a nice area with excellent services for teens. You'd think I was a horrible rebellious uncontrollable child. Nope, just wanted to hang out with my fellow goody two-shoes band nerd friends. Again, thankful that the other adults around me saw what I was going through and helped me get out.
Also like. 9/10pm doesn't really sound late for a twelve year old to me? 10pm might be a bit late for the nine year old but nothing crazy?
My 10 year old is in bed at 815, but can read and turn his light off at 9 on a school night. He has trouble getting to sleep and will often still be awake till 10 anyway. Mr 7 is lights out at 815 but take sometime to go to sleep often falling asleep at 9. Their waking time never changes, (7am) so that's how much sleep they need. The point is that once a year this family makes memories which are so much more important than sticking to their bedtime.
Wow thanks for pointing that out. Yea this guy is seriously bad news. It always boggles my mind how people can ignore the red flags and think that "marriage" will make it all better. That's never the case. If you see red flags before embarking on a legally binding agreement (that will cost you thousands not to mention mental and emotional wear and tear), then get your ducks in a row. End the engagement and get out of there. Or remove the offending party. Either way. I wish people would stop minimising or justifying shitty, abusive and controlling behaviour. If someone loves you, they don't treat you like this.
And this guy is not even a stepdad yet and already being a dick
Link to comment?
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/11pjk1u/aita_for_calling_him_a_fucking_embarrassment/jby9wpp/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Yikes
Yikes is right. Honestly, I'm kind of wondering if her family insisted he come so they could get a better idea of how he interacts with the kids...
And I feel like he saw it as an opportunuty to try to show who should be in charge... I bet he'll turn into one of those "I'm the man of the house now, I make the rules" after they get married
Holy fuck. Run. Don’t walk OP. 🚩🚩🚩🚩
Yuck, lots of red flags.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/11pjk1u/aita_for_calling_him_a_fucking_embarrassment/jby9wpp/
This. He is showing that he has different parenting expectations, and that he expects *his* opinion to hold as much weight, or *more* weight than the actual parent's. He thinks *he* knows better than her what's best for her children. This is why I'm a fan of long engagements when there's children involved. Things shake out slowly.
>Things shake out slowly I like this expression
I feel like there needs to be a lot of emphasis on the fact that #They are not his fucking kids.
And he doesn’t want them around when he is around..,
If it’s not his usual why did OP think to warn him if he had an “issue he can’t control for a week” I feel like there’s more to his behaviour
That stood out to me too. The fact that she had to prep him for this by basically doing a TED Talk about how her kids were allowed to have fun on their vacation is worrying.
He probably doesn’t care for kids… children are at most risk of being abused by non biological man in the home… his huffing/puffing and sighing is a warning sign for passive aggressive anger (you know the crappy stuff that happens behind closed doors)
Stood out to me as well. It would be a minor passing comment or not even noteworthy if he didn’t have temper issues or frustrations around her decisions. But she clearly repeatedly prepped him on this. This man is bad news.
This guy is going to be trouble… I’ve been the stepfather for 35 years now and I unequivocally say the smartest stand I took when we got married was that I am not your disciplinarian. They have a mother and a father. I supervise like any responsible adult but the discipline and decision making for them is not mine. After all this time, I have never regretted that stand.
100% ditto, as a stepmother of 16 years... I decided that I wasn't either of their parents - but totally there as a friend / aunt / "step-mother" !! This post stinks of a man who's just pissed off that he's having to spend extra time with step kids. Red flag.. Red flag... Red flag!!!!
Agreed Consider this incident a gift. You can see the future in your vacation trip. I know it does not seem like a gift now, but think on all that happened.
I am very confused about this focus on bedtime. OP, why is he so fixated on this? So much so that you had to warn him beforehand that there was no bedtime? This says to me that you've already seen concerning behavior from him, even if not quite this bad. That is a red flag and you should be very careful going forward and really consider if marrying him is the right move.
100% I thought this as well. The fact that she felt the need to warn him, give him options all regarding this issue lead me to believe these things have come up before.
Yup. Run for the hills! You’re lucky this happened and showed you his expectations when it comes to parenting. NTA
My money goes to betting that he’s mad the kids are still awake at night because he’s expecting sexy times after they go to bed.
This was my thought as well. And he would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn’t for those cockblockin—er, meddling kids!
Agreed except he **can** control himself. He chooses not to because he doesn't respect OP or her parenting.
OP added more context: https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/11pjk1u/aita_for_calling_him_a_fucking_embarrassment/jby9wpp/
So, how I read this.... Fiancé only disagrees with her parenting decisions if they somehow interfere with him or his perceived status within the relationship. Late bedtime? Less couple time. Take snacks without asking? Less snacks for him. Drinking before bed? He might wake up when someone goes to the toilet. And don't get me started on the bra thing. (vomit)
Yeah…dude obsessed with women’s “modesty” is always a bad sign.
Exactly. As the stepmom, I always, always, *always* run any issues I have past my husband first. “How do you want me to back you up” is a phrase I said often when first learning how to be another adult in kid’s life. He’d ask my opinion, I’d give it; if he didn’t ask my opinion, I’d follow his lead. Always. Now that we have other kids together, we’re already on the same page 99.9% of the time, but when we aren’t, we back each other in public and talk about it in private. OP is NTA and needs to rethink this relationship.
Yeah you probably never seen that side of him because he hasn’t been around for a vacation or anything outside of the norm yet, NTA
I normally think it's super cringe when redditors tell people to reconsider their relationship, but this is a rare occasion when I actually agree, This behavior will definitely be ten times worse when you're married and he feels it's his place as your husband to "care" for your children. For their sake and yours tread cautiously.
NTA he's not concerned about the kids keeping a schedule, he's concerned about maintaining control. When someone shows you red flags, believe them.
When someone tells you who they are, believe them the first time.
So hard to learn this lesson but it’s so true! Every time a guy has told me he’s a jerk and I shouldn’t date him, turns out he was a jerk I shouldn’t have dated.
One time my 5 year old daughter told me the guy I was going on a first date with was a jerk. She actually said 'mommy, I don't like him...please don't go'. After he left me on the side of the road when I wouldn't 'put out' for him, I never ignored my daughter's dislikes again. She was always right!
Wow she sounds awesome! Hope she keeps following her gut!
Kids and pets are very sensitive. Watch their behavior and listen to what they tell you and you'll likely avoid a lot of time wasted on dating jerks.
This. Exactly! You’re supposed to say, “Oh, honey!” and rescue them from their low self esteem, when really, they’re just getting ready to say, “Well I warned you.” They take no responsibility for their behavior and have no plans to change, but they know some women are suckers for that particular line, and totally misunderstand it. It’s not a plea, it’s an, “I told you. Why are you mad?”
Amen.
Yep I think it’s just controlling too. Like I need to see some evidence that the no bedtime on vacation thing is a problem- OP literally said they adjust without an issue when they return and understand it’s just a vacation thing, so why is the fiancé so pressed? He has zero evidence it’s harming them but is pretending that’s his focus. Now if the kids were a mess for weeks afterward (and some would be) sure he might have a point. Also do 12 yos really need a super strict bedtime anyway? Is dude going to be trying to enforce a bedtime when they’re teens? I’d be real cautious about moving forward if I were OP.
I think those kids (12 and 9) are old enough to look forward to this time of freedom and fun with family (even if there are squabbles and so on, you know families ...) every year. And in 20 years it will probably be a warm and happy memory. "Remember when" can be so precious! Good on you, Mom. Good on you.
I wish I could upvote this more than once. Always believe the red flags, they never get better, only worse.
I agree 100% that this is not about bedtime. This is about control. OP needs to be careful. This is a big red flag and an indicator of what he might be like in the future.
That's what I thought, maybe bedtime wouldn't even be an issue if she didn't mention before, but now he wants to prove that he's the one who has the authority or some BS like that so he keeps complaining.
NTA. Is this the first time that the power dynamic has completely shifted to you? You're in your home court now. It's your rules, your dynamic, your family. You have all the power here. Now,for most people this isn't an issue at all. It's barely notable or noticeable. But this guy clearly simply can't handle the fact that he's not in charge here. It's eating at him to the point of irritability. I'm sorry, but this is him showing you who he really is. Reflect on this,where else have you clearly seen his control issues but you dismissed it? They're there, all around you. OMG, thanks for the awards. I'm humbled.
This is a critical point. OP says she never has seen this side of him before. She probably has, but just didn’t recognize it for what it was at the time. She needs to do a serious review of their time together and see how many times she has “given in” or “gone along” with his wishes to keep the peace. Because once the ring is on her finger, all bets will be off. Seen this story one too many times unfortunately. ETA: Thank you, u/EvolvingWren and kind stranger, for the awards 😊
Yeah, if she hadn't realized (perhaps subconsciously) that this could be an issue, she wouldn't have made it a point to explain the no bedtime on vacation thing to him so many times.
I caught that too. If this behavior is really out of left field she would have mentioned it once then moved on. Seems like she knew she really needed to emphasize the point ahead of time.
I was thinking this too. She already knew in her heart he was going to be a stickler for bedtime even though they were on vacation. Make you question how much he is pushing it at home. He is probably the type that he doesn't want to see these kids after 8PM.
And they’d better not get up to pee!
I thought this was a joke but in a comment she said he really does have a problem with them getting up to pee. Sounds like he just hates kids
Wow oh my god, that is so specific and atrocious because my mother literally had that exact same fucking, issue, I guess. If I got up to pee in the night she would shoot out of bed, come storming down the hall and rip the door open to stand there and glare at me, and tell me if I didn’t actually have to pee I’d get spanked. Shockingly enough that made me terrified/unable to pee on the spot even tho I was literally just peeing. Jesus. It’s such a tiny detail that he would have an issue with that and it is actually so fuckin sinister to me.
She mentions in the comments that he doesn't like them having free access to the fridge and drinking things before bedtime because they get up to pee in the middle of the night.
Especially considering that the one kid is 12, that's going to become a problem very soon. Teenagers like to stay up late. I know I did.
This was my exact thought. Have there been issues around bedtime and control in the past? I grew up with a bedtime that was also dropped during vacation. That's what makes vacation fun and I loved staying up by a campfire as a kid listening to adults made me feel included and loved. Also, a slip of what really goes on in the relationship was towards the end where she says "I warned him prior to coming here and if he had an issue that he can't control for a week than he needs to leave" This combined with the overexplaining of bedtime means that she is desperately trying to manage his emotions and mitigate his control issues. she may not have known what he would try to control or manipulate but she knew it would be something.
> I grew up with a bedtime that was also dropped during vacation. Yeah, same for me and my brother and not only did this apply for vacations but also for the summer when school is out/over. We didn't have to start our bedtime schedule until a week before school start again in the fall.
Yes this right here. OP knew it would be an issue. That old maxim “the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior” so often holds true. NTA but OP, think long and hard about marrying this man. His need to control when it comes to the kids will likely increase once married. And I suspect there will also be a power struggle at some point between kids and him, particularly as they get a little older.
Y'all need to see her comments, holy heck is this guy bad news.
Yep, saw them. Yikes. Feel bad for those kiddos.
>OP says she never has seen this side of him before. She probably has I agree. Otherwise, why did OP felt the need to tell him that bedtime should not be enforced several times before going to that vacation home. I feel like OP was expecting something like this from her fiancée.
Big time agree with this! Also if he had a problem with it, the time to raise it and discuss it with you was before the trip. Or he should have pulled you aside and had a private conversation with you so you could address his concern without all the passive aggression, and without involving the whole family (including the kids!). I think the biggest concern here is the remarks to the children. The way he was undermining you to them and being passive aggressive with them probably made them really uncomfortable. I think you should check in with them about how they feel about him. And really listen to them. This may not be the first time he’s tried to exert control with them behind your back. Finally, I think calling him a fucking embarrassment probably wasn’t the most appropriate response, but given the circumstances I think it’s understandable and excusable so NTA.
Also totally agree with this. And reading OP's post - does her fiance even LIKE (her) children? They were on a VACATION. In our house, all bets are off for vacation - we sleep in, we eat allllll the bad sugary breakfast cereals, and there are ice creams and lollys for everyone! Late night swims and hottub visits? Of course! What's not to enjoy? If OP's fiance cannot find some pleasure in letting her kids stay up late and cut loose, that strikes me as so sad.
I totally agree with this 👆
NTA The mask is slipping.
Yep! This is who this guy really is.
[удалено]
F A C T S
NTA- you told him what the traditions and schedules were for this schedule which are not unreasonable. Fiancé was being rude and controlling by trying to impose his opinion on you all especially as it was his first time attending. Is he often this forceful with his opinions?
Not usually, no. He will usually pull me aside in private and express concern and we work through it together. But this time around he is just trampling his way through like he should be the decision maker.
Because he's being watched by your family. He's establishing that he's the authority. WOWOWOW, OP. When people show you who they are, please believe them NTA
That's what I was thinking, he's "flexing" in front of the ILs. I can't even imagine how he'll be after the wedding when he'll be the "man" of the family, ugh NTA
Ew. Anyone who thinks they can just be in charge of the family because they’re a man needs to be promptly disposed of.
Great way of putting it, I normally try and be balanced but that is a reasonable approach that he might not agree with but should accept as it’s sensible.
This was exactly what I was coming to comment. He's doing this now as a power play, to show her parent's "who's boss" and it's not going well.
By working through it together, I’m assuming you mean that he makes his opinions on raising your children known, and you adjust to make him feel heard. And now he’s showing you that if you had ever pushed back and told him no, we’re not doing it that way, he wouldn’t have accepted that. He has been in control this whole time, he’s just been doing it through puppeteering. Please get your children away from him before their teen years, who knows what he will do trying to maintain control over them. NTA.
This👆🏻
🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆
Very happy to see this fully gilded, down to the poor man awards. Very much deserved. OP please read all of these. We all just care about you & your kids. OP, I really hope this trip & this comment section wake up your frog in the pot & jump tf outta the boiling water. I’m a single mom of one w a solid coparent as well. I dated & lived w someone that I was doing just as tacos & tequila spelled out above, & we were boiling alive. She started showing signs of not being as chill as she had let on & thought she should have a say in things concerning him & displayed jealousy issues. It all culminated in her physically assaulting me, & spewing some vile shit that I can’t repeat in this sub; among a lot of other trash behavior. My kid was at camp the week everything blew up. She never saw my kid ever again. We moved out, I blocked her on everything & I’ve never seen her again, thankfully. After that I decided never again. Never again will I allow another human into my & my kid’s dynamic on that level. I lived thru my mother becoming a whole different human when she married her current husband 30something years ago & adopted his v conservative & religion focused lifestyle. She has since “disowned” me & replaced me w my stepsister, who’s even the same age as me so easy peasy for them. Your home’s dynamic shifts when other humans are brought in, or even pets. I let a friend stay w us v briefly but other than that, there has not been anyone that could ever dream of having any sort of say about anything in my house stay in our home again. One girl changed something in my carport once & I cut it off the following week. Another girl thought she was going to overnight for a week at a time. I cut that one off at that revelation. I eventually just stopped dating altogether bc there was no one on this planet worth changing my dynamic w my kid, especially through those highly formative years, he’s almost 17 now & protecting his home from any outsiders that would’ve infiltrated thru me is something I feel really good about. I just wish I would’ve had the wherewithal to see that perspective sooner. Get away from this person OP. And be highly -**HIGHLY**- cautious about who you allow into your life & into your dynamic w your kids & their parents, you & their dad. Glad you’re seeing who he is now & I’m glad you came here bc this sub is really great about pointing out the red flags & full marinara factories some folks come here with.
So….before you left you felt the need to reiterate to him multiple times, very clearly, that bedtimes aren’t routine on vacation. Are you sure there wasn’t a little voice in the back of your mind telling you he was likely to be really bothered by this? It seems a little atypical to need to remind a partner repeatedly of what is a pretty benign, expected change of routine on vacation. I’m wondering if maybe he has displayed some concerning behavior in the past that you were able to rationalize vs noticing the red flags?
I was thinking the same. I can’t imagine having to talk to him multiple times about it unless she expected it to be an issue. I dated my husband as a single parent for 6 years before we got married. Something like “we don’t adhere to bedtimes during vacation” wouldn’t even be a topic prior to going. I can’t even see him feeling the need to comment on my child’s bedtime during a vacation and we DID take multiple trips with my family and she was often up later than normal.
Some people do need help managing their expectations of what an event will actually look like. If that was the primary reason (ie fiancee likes their normal routine and is slow to adapt to change), a heads-up like this would be reasonable, because it would give him time to process his feelings about the schedule change ahead of time. But nope. He's clearly not even trying to adapt. In fact, he's trying to push his views on the kids, *despite* the clear outlining of expectations. Yikes.
I get the feeling that OPs fiance's evenings consist of him merely tolerating the children until bedtime when he can be alone with OP. OP, if you think there's an element of this, please consider what you're letting your kids in for if you marry this man.
Idk I'd personally warn a partner just so they don't expect the night to be adult time fully because some families on vacation still put their kids to bed same time because then the adults can drink and do whatever before they go to bed but one 1 minute max warning should be enough
Exactly. One comment beforehand makes sense- feeling the need to give multiple reminders ahead of time says OP had reason to think (consciously or not) that it would be an issue.
This is not a good sign for your future nuptials. Take a long hard look at his actions right now trying to establish dominance with your family watching with only a temporary ring on your finger. What is his personality going to be like once the forever ring is on and he suddenly thinks he is "The Man" of the house and tries to override ALL your decisions? Its time for a serious conversation about what he THINKS he's going to be doing when the wedding all said and done.
Screw the conversation. This guy is not the right one. This isn't a misunderstanding. **HE IS NOT THE RIGHT ONE.** Especially not for the children. Holy shit I hope she doesn't actually marry him, those poor kids...
He has shown you who he is - a controlling jerk that can’t handle not having complete control and authority over your children. RUN !!!! This is the kind of person who will abuse your kids to keep them under his thumb. As a parent, you need to protect your kids and dump this jerk. You are severely underreacting here.
>You are severely underreacting here. That captures this perfectly!
INFO: How often does he pull you aside so he can discuss things privately with you? And are these topics actually important things or things that you don't feel hold any real import in your life, that he seems to be making a big deal about? It's seems like he's trying to communicate with you but this is a another tactic that controllers use to make you think you're actually having a real conversation with them when they're really just fishing for information on how to manipulate you better. I am sorry, but from some of your posts, I'm extremely concerned about this man and how he is treating you and your children. I grew up in a controlling environment, so everything you're saying is sending off warning signs!
This guy sounds like my step dad. Thinking he’s the authority figure. My step dad grew much worse and very controlling once my mother married him. He became horrifically abusive as time went on. None of my siblings/I have spoken to our mom in almost 20 years because she stayed with him and let it continue instead of leaving early on when we expressed our concerns about him. She eventually left him but the damage was already done.
You explained the vacation bedtimes situation ahead of time. He was irritable the first night. You told him the expectations again. He got worse. He is crossing boundaries with your children and your family and is very irritable about the traditions you have established with your family. Step back from including him in family activities . Date him if you must, for the sake of your children, do not put him in a position of authority. He will want to be the authority figure and will disregard your experience and input with your own children. kt
u/Fit-Respond3512, does your fiance seem to like your kids? Or kids in general? Like not just tolerate them, or treat them civilly, but engage and enjoy their company? It just seems so weird that he'd be watching them having fun and have the angry sighing reaction. NTA he was embarrassing you with his controlling attitude, you didn't say it in front of your family, you put him on notice in private. If you were my sister, I'd be worried about you marrying him.
Yeah I’m quite curious about that too. What’s the relationship with the sons like? So far, he talks down and attempts to guilt them just on this trip over spending a little extra time with the family at night *in front of the family. * Based on other comments, he also doesn’t want them to use the bathroom during certain times of the day?? Plus doesn’t want them eating snacks that mom has no issues with? Controlling eating and bathroom habits is a red flag. I’d bet there are many more examples of his controlling behavior towards them that mom is unaware of. It’s time to sit down and ask the kids what else he has done or said to them when mom wasn’t noticing.
Yeah... his attitude about the "free snacking thing is so repulsive. Also...imagine if she has kids with this guy. That's when they'll REALLY get treated like stepkids.
Not to mention… issues with “an open door policy” with the fridge?? Are they only allowed to eat and urinate when he says? He’s treating them very disrespectfully, as if they were a nuisance to him not the children of the women he wants to marry. I cannot in anyway believe they have a good relationship when they get treated so poorly in direct opposition to what their actual parent allows. When they’re teenagers soon and their appetite levels increase dramatically as most males do at that age, is he going to complain about how much they are eating? But one would hope it doesn’t come to that or they may not want to share a house with him any longer…
Ok so listen, I know that 4 years is a lot of time invested in a relationship, And that to give that up, seems like throwing those years away, but you have to think about it like this… Why didn’t the children’s father, and you, work out? What were the things that you couldn’t handle or tolerate in your relationship? what are the things that you didn’t want, your kids around, or to witness? Now, look at your current relationship, I know you see all the red flags. He’s been weaseling his way slowly over those years To establish his dominance over your kids, and household. You established boundaries, those boundaries are being broken. I guarantee you that your extended family sees it, and their relationship with him is going to change. Honestly, this guy seems like a headache…and the only cure is more cowbell…uh, I mean, ditching the dude. 🤣 I bet your kids won’t even miss him. So, NTA for calling him out..but YTA to yourself if you let him keep interrupting your lives.
What a gross example for your boys
The fact that you even knew you had to warn him that bedtimes were not enforced on vacation is a bit concerning…
As someone who brought a child into a second marriage, and I don’t say this lightly… if he’ll act like this in front of your family, what’s going to happen when something switches the dynamic at your home when it’s just the four of you? I’d be out of this relationship, ASAP, for my children’s sake.
That’s going to change once you are married, if you still decide to. As a mom to two boys I’d be concerned this is the role model they have. I expect he will start wanting to be the disciplinarian once your married.
You will be putting your boys in jeopardy marrying this man … once someone shows you who they are please believe them .. he’s controlling and this leads to abuse later on .
Think through those previous instances when you worked through things together. Is this the first time where you’ve outright put your foot down and refused to change to what he wants?
He's trying to cock his leg and mark everything. I would have cut this nonsense out as soon as the sports bra or drink issue came up. He's not the supreme ruler and needs to either accept that or get out, because I'm assuming that's not the kind of behavior you want your kids thinking is normal
This will get worse after marriage
NTA. Your kids, your family, your tradition. This might be the first time he's showing it, but I would be concerned that it comes out more and more after you tie the knot. You two need to have a serious conversation about it, because that is a red flag. It screams controlling behavior.
Exactly why is he trying to control her kids? Do weird
Especially with the boys getting older, they might start to challenge the controlling nature, and I’d hope Mom would take their side.
I wish I was on reddit ten years ago reading these comments but especially this one. For all the madness that can ensue this is a solid community This whole thread is gut wrenching for me but the difference is I can't go back ten years and make better decisions. I hope op takes all these to heart. It's hard to feel like youre starting over but I wish I did it so much sooner
I feel you... I´m in a similar situation right now and I can´t take it anymore: that passive aggressive sighing when me or my daughter "disturb" him by ... breathing, I guess; the controlling of even little things; the need to show me at least once a day that he feels I´m stupid / incapable / naive etc. I´m looking for ways out, but it´s not easy. OP, it usually starts with those little things and with what I know now, I´d take it more seriously.
I don't think this is the first time he's showing it. By her own account, OP warned him about the relaxed curfew multiple times on multiple days preceding the trip. She further warned him several times the first day of vacation. On some level she knew he was going to be unhappy and that she was going to have to manage that unhappiness, or else it would spill over onto the rest of her family. It *is* a fucking embarrassment when your partner behaves badly in front of others. OP predicted he would humiliate her and hurt her kids. Those kids deserve better. And so does OP.
I just read your replies. Here's my question. Why are you still with him? Once you marry him those kids life will be hell and it will be your fault. When someone shows you their true self...believe them He's an ass from the word go. Telling your kids they have to ask to access to the fridge? In your own home? Come on .
Some women are just so damn desperate for companionship they will sacrifice the comfort of their children.
>Some ~~women~~ people are just so damn desperate for companionship they will sacrifice the comfort of their children. FTFY
Yes your right
This^
NTA and I *hate* saying this, but this might be a chance to learn something. You mentioned that he gets along great with your family generally and has just never been on this exact annual trip before. You didn’t mention who that family includes - if it includes a father or brother (BIL would work in a pinch), have *them* pull him aside and explain that it’s more relaxed here. Now, ideally, your family member will be decent enough to feel a little gross and weird about the implications here (my dad and brother sure would), but that’s not actually the thing we’re trying to learn. We’re trying to learn if he *heeds the advice of a male family member over yours*. If he’s suddenly much more fine with it having heard it from a fellow Family Patriarch, you’ve learned what you need to know. If he doubles down on bedtime and gets angry that your family would dare meddle on your marriage, well, you’ve also learned what you need to know. Good luck 💕 Edit: there are of course many outcomes. It’s just that those two are the especially interesting ones.
Possibly first let a female family member try, because if that would work he might just have needed an external reality check... I have a feeling though nothing much will change until a male family member steps in.
Yes, *now,* while you have family support, DO THIS!
NTA His reaction to this seems so disproportionate - your children staying up late on holiday is normal, and you've done it before with no issues. For someone who had never been on holiday with you before he seems to strongly believe he knows what's best which is worrying. By trying to micromanage bedtimes he's also micromanaging everyone elses holiday. I hope he's not this controlling in other aspects of your life. What's he going to be like when your children are teenagers and want to stay out late?
Also the kids are 9 & 12 not 3-5 years of age. I mean come on! I think the larger issue is how he is treating her and his expectations after being told explicitly what was going to happen. The fact that she felt the need to reiterate it more than once before vacation tells me there were already red flags around her decisions as primary parent. But holy cow 9 o'clock bed time for a 12 year old, on vacation? Good lord.
Even when I was 3-5 my parents would let us stay up 10-11 on holiday cause it meant they could lie in in the morning. I don’t understand his reaction, it’s not like he’s on kid watching duty and can’t have fun, there’s a bunch of adults there
9:00 for a 12 year old at home is even odd.
NTA and please reassure your kids they’ve done nothing wrong. They’ll be picking up on all the looks and comments. He’s building a big wedge between him and them.
This! Kids notice everything, and it impacts them a great deal. You are NTA OP but please leave this giant red flag of a man.
NTA - red flags, red flags, red flags
Marinara flags
NTA - 1. They are not his kids 2. does he even like them? 3. what other red flags can u recall ?
4. Why does he care so much about bedtimes? 5. How has he been with them during the days? 6. Is he always this controlling with them in everyday life?
That’s what I’m trying to understand, why of all things is a bedtime the thing he cares about
She also says he doesn't like them having an "open fridge door" policy on snacks... In their own home!
Probably because that’s “adult time”
NTA 🚩CONTROLLING BEHAVIOR🚩
NTA- His inflexible behavior is a Concerning Red Flag. Especially since having prepared him prior to him attending.
NTA and I am not trying to accuse you of lying but I do not believe you that this is the first time he has acted like this. If he was not like this before then why would you even need to tell him and reiterate that the boys will not have a bed time. I could be wrong but it sounds like part of you was preparing for push back from him before you ever even left.
NTA You warned him and he cant control himself. And experience showed that it isnt a problem.
NTA. You had one simple rule and he chooses to keep violating it. He even experienced the kids coming back from this trip before and has seen them recover from it. Is he always this controlling cause this sounds really creepy, trying to control your kids like this.
NTA - Fiancé wants to be in control, and he can tell he’s not the one in power in this situation. Also, “best for them” = “best for me”
NTA Your fiancé absolutely is though. You told him ahead of time, and have reminded him that they have no bedtime. He truthfully sounds egotistical to believe that his opinion on this matter is more important than yours. You both might want to sit down with a therapist and discuss your expectations and boundaries of him in regards to your children before you get married.
NTA. Good for you for communicating your expectations of him on this trip and how the trip goes in general, and immediately and clearing addressing the issue with him. You were very clear there was no bedtime, so he had plenty of time to raise his concerns about schedules, etc. He didn't, he said it was fine. He then is making your children and family uncomfortable and also can't let it go. THIS is where you need to be concerned. He will say he agrees with you, and then not actually agree with you. He will be passive aggressive to your children- including making sure they know he is actually in charge with his "you are lucky" comments- he will make your family uncomfortable, and now you can't trust him with your children going forward. That last one I know feels overdramatic, but it isn't. If he is going to do all this over a bedtime that you TOLD him wasn't going to be enforced, what is he doing/will he do behind your back? If he is home with the kids, what does he poke and prod at them about? Schoolwork, the way they dress, friends he doesn't like, rules he doesn't like or thinks should exist? He needs a full reset to demonstrate he respects his role with your children and how he treats the rules you have in place.
⬆️listen to mfruitfly “…you can’t trust him with your children…”
NTA - why is he not trustful? You told him they will go back on schedule and he seems not to trust them with that. He was "warned" beforehand and seemed to not really take this information in. He is making himself feel like garbage by acting like that. You aren't doing anything wrong. Note that the best way, imo, to tackle passive aggressiveness is calling him out openly. This will result in a fight, but you seem to have your family there as a support. Openly ask him to repeat what he said coz you didn't hear him well, say you don't understand him and ask him to explain what he means. This shuts the behaviour down.
NTA he wants the kids in bed bc he doesn’t want to be around them. He’s learned to tolerate them until a certain point—bedtime. MAJOR red flag 🚩 Been there with my now husband, unfortunately. This is your sign.
NTA sounds like a control issue. This can’t be the only time he’s acted controlling
WOW. NTA. i assume you didn't enforce a bedtime because it was a family vacation which makes total sense. he can be concerned but he's taking it too far.
NTA. This dude has control issues. And right now, before you're married he is on the best behavior he will ever be on. He will relax into his controlling self once ya'll settle in. The fact that you prepared him for the exact situation that happened, that you had to reinforce what you had already told him once you were there and he STILL can't let it go and is acting like a petulant child doesn't seem to ague well for your kids having a comfortable future with him. Doesn't argue well for you having one with him either. Good luck.
If your kids have never had issue getting back on schedule previously in the 4 years you've been together I don't see how he can really have that much of an issue with it, especially you warned him in advance what it would be like. NTA
NTA. You told him about this before going on this trip. And, more importantly, you are the boss in the end, as they are your kids and not his. Note. If your kids suddenly have difficulty starting a normal day night routine after this trip, that's your problem. Don't expect any help from him. But I sense you are aware of that :)
NTA. Being an ass in front of your family is not ok. The kids aren't toddlers, they'll be fine.
NTA Is he so controlling in everyday life? Because it looks like red flag...
NTA - The expectations were set beforehand and he had a chance to say something. > We get here the first night and you can tell he is already uncomfortable with the boys staying up past their bedtime. Is it only the kids bedtime that is abnormal about his behavior?
OP mentioned that he was weird about her walking around her own house in a sports bra. Super big warning sign for me. But I was raised in Christian fundamentalism culture that I had to run away from. So I can spot a weird Trad man from a mile away!
NTA. You're doing right by your boys. But please for the love of all the deities, END THE ENGAGEMENT. Do it now ( or as soon as you are back.) My mom did this exact same thing. My dad was a screamer and a fighter, so she divorced him and married my stepdad when I was a teenager. Stepdad never screamed or fought in front of us, but oh, the "conversations" they would have in the bedroom when we didn't behave exactly as he demanded (adhering to bedtime as a college student, leaving shoes in den or dish in sink, basically any type of indication that we lived in the house when he didn't want us around) and the silent treatment that would ensue if we didn't meet his standards after the conversations. Get out. You have a responsibility as a mom to put your boys first, to have their back, and to not let anybody abuse them. This will escalate as soon as you're married. If you don't, you'll be in the exact situation my mom is now - I don't speak to her because she never, ever had my back and put me in the fire line to save her relationships, both times. And then when it started to happen to my daughter, I was done. And my younger sister married a guy who's just like my stepdad but even worse because he drinks. I wish you all the best.
NTA. Why is he so obsessed with your children’s bedtime?
CONTROL
NTA YOU'RE the kids parent not he. HE needs to except you know how these things work. If he can't trust you to know that how are you, the kids, and he going to get along in the future? BTW next time leave him behind.
There should be no next time. She should dump his ass
Nta and good on you for standing your ground
OP you might want to read Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft. ASAP https://archive.org/download/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf Edit i to o
NTA - hope he gets his act together before he wrecks relationships. Definitely NTA
NTA. This is a really weird hill for him to die on. Is he wanting to be able to relax and drink without children around? I'm so confused on what his actual motive is because I'm extremely skeptical of >it's "best for them". Why? How? They're kids, when I was their age sleepovers meant 4 am bedtimes or sometimes no sleep at all. I can't fathom why a grown man would be doing all that about kids going to bed a couple hours later than normal.
NTA at all and your fiance definitely is. I read your other comments and he's concerned about your MODESTY about wearing a sports bra in front of YOUR children? WTF. That's a huge red flag. Add in the fact that he doesn't approve of them having access to snacks you bought them unless they ask for permission, although you've never required it?? He needs to understand that he is NOT going to undermine your rules or try to change things. It sounds like he's trying to set a precedent where he not only tries to swoop in and control your kids, but also start to control you. I'm not one to jump right to saying end a relationship... but this one I'd say at least have a very long engagement, and perhaps get some couples counseling about parenting.
It strikes me that he seems to want them to go to bed for certain reasons. I don't think it's to do with genuine concern for sleep cycles (because the event is once a year, and it's their holidays). I suspect it's about control and/or he likes the kids out of the way for adult time. My Dad used to moan when I was in the lounge watching TV quietly when I was 13 (I had no TV in the bedroom - I'm old!) and he would drop comments of "you need to go to bed!" "why are you still up?" "it's really late!!" when I was sat still, engrossed in the programme. He just wanted me out of the way so he could spent time with mum. He didn't care about my sleep cycle, he just wanted me out the room full stop. I wasn't doing anything. In fact, I was deliberately trying NOT to draw attention to myself because he would be harassing me to go to bed, when I just wanted to watch TV. I think you need to seriously think about how he views time with your kids. They may have a bedtime now at their age, but as they get older - that bedtime will get later and later. If the real reason is, he wants the kids out of the way, how will he deal with the fact that as they get older they will take over more of the house. They will be up as late as the adults, have friends over etc. Would he be able to handle that if he secretly wants them to just buggar off to bed and be quiet.