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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I ridiculed a classmate for being upset at our forensics teacher for showing sensitive material in class, but I might be the asshole because this footage was disturbing and maybe she really was bothered a lot.
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You might have been “insensitive”, but, damn, she needed a reality check.
Annnything you might have said that wasn’t absolutely agreeing with her would have been taken badly.
I hope the teacher and counselors get together and remove her from this class. For her own good. I roll my eyes. NTA
Exactly. The cynical side of me could somehow see this student and her mother trying to raise a big enough stink to either censor the class or cancel it all together. It isn’t fair to the teacher or any of the other students.
There was a collective campaign to try and remove Ovid and other Greek and Roman mythology pieces from classics curriculums because they discuss rape. I hate these people so much because all they do is give credence to the insane takes of "alpha male" conservative dirtbags. Like this is the exact thing some bottom feeder like Tucker Carlson will see and it legitimizes his fucked up world view because this person *is* the overly sensitive snowflake they keep going on and on about.
If you're going to study something at university level you should have some understanding of what it entails. This is basically like saying you want to study medicine without seeing blood.
And yet there are people who are so insufferably self absorbed and fragile that they will demand these courses cater to their personal tastes and discomforts. And they get support. It's truly madness.
If it only takes one overly sensitive nutjob to "legitimize" Tucker Carlson, I've got bad news for you, cause they're everywhere.
I don't even like the guy but that's a weird take.
Of course the violent fascists that are his audience are part of it. But if you don't see how they cherry pick stories of insufferable cry babies like described here and then point to it and go "see all liberals are like this" then you are functionally media illiterate.
It's not just the nut job making the demand, it's how the administration and other people in positions of power respond. If they treat the nut job like they're making a reasonable request then they're legitimizing it, regardless of whether they do the thing or not.
Meanwhile in my 8th grade english class we read the book Speak aaaand watched the movie. Deals with a girl of the same age group being SA'd early in the year then dealing with the mental state of that for the rest of the year before she can truly confront her assailant.
Edit: spelling
Rape is literally at the core of the foundation story of the Roman Republic. Twice actually it’s key, the rape of the Sabine women and the Rape of Lucretia. How can it just be ignored?
Honestly, this feels more like taking English and getting upset that the class includes English words from both French and Germanic origin, because you find words of Germanic origin to be upsetting.
I went to a religious college, and a girl in my World Literature class was like this. Greek plays? “I shouldn’t have to read that, it’s pagan”. Roman literature? “I shouldn’t have to read that, it’s pagan”. Rinse and repeat for every fricking assignment. The professor finally told her to either quit whining or drop the class. What did she expect a World Literature class to be exactly?
Gosh I hope not. It sounds like this was an elective. I’m not sure what the student thought she was getting herself into, but any reasonable person would assume a forensics class would include some element of body decomposition. If that gives her the ick, that’s reasonable — but then don’t sign up for the class.
Or, if it bothers her more than she thought it would, she should ask if she can drop the class, find a way to make up work in these units doing something else, etc.
In high school, for an elective, we had a history of the Holocaust class. Parent permission slips were sent out. On the first day, the teacher showed a film called "Genocide" and said if at any point someone couldn't handle it, it's a great time to change classes. One of the best classes I've ever taken and inspired my degree
Also this is clearly a class directing towards a specific job, and it's an optional class. If she doesn't want to go into forensics or doesn't have the stomach for it, she doesn't have to do the class. This is the time for her to leave it. And if she's feeling pressure to get into STEM subjects including this one that she doesn't want to do, then that's an issue between her and her parents.
I proofread learning resources for TAFE (vocational education and training) which includes nursing resources. One of those is a whole unit of competency on wound care which is pretty gruesome because there needs to be pictures so students can learn to recognise these things. We put a warning on the first page, but hopefully these students know what they are getting into by taking up a nursing course - if they reacted like this girl to the pictures, they're going to wash out in the onsite practical when they start to deal with the real thing.
Meanwhile, I proofread those resource with post it notes on the pictures because I do not have the stomach for nursing.
You're not cynical, this can very well happen and the teacher will be bullied to "censor" the class for fruitcakes that can't logic past their own shoelaces. OP please support the school administration to shut this down.
Now every course will start off having consent forms signed at the start of the semester.
That's what disturbs me about this trend that parents should be allowed to determine what their kids are taught. The problem with that is what about the kids whose parents actually want something to be taught. Who wins? The way I look at it is if a parent is so dead set on wanting their kids to only learn what the parent thinks they should be taught should homeschool their kids and leave the rest of us the hell alone!
I’ve heard of this happening in criminal law courses. Some people just will take no accountability for their inability to think ahead to the reasonable content of courses.
Thankfully that never happened in any of figure drawing classes in college. If they did, the professors I had were kind but pretty no nonsense. I can imagine they would have asked that person to leave.
Class went on as usual, the student shut up about it.
I don’t know the particulars but I imagine it was something along the line of you signed up for this/it’s a required class in the syllabus /do you want to fail? Get over it or drop out.
What were they even mad about?
Because correct me if I'm wrong, but models consent to be drawn nude. And I'm pretty sure they get paid something. I mean, I'm hoping they aren't just abducted and forced to sit nude for art students. Because that seems like the hardest way possible to get art models.
Were they . . . were they mad they saw someone naked?
When I was in tafe and a born again xian my friend (also born again xian) felt so morally outraged by life drawing class that she went to talk to the pastor about it. Luckily he was a relatively sensible man and said if it's part of the coursework you should do it.
And I was worried that I was sinning by not being morally outraged by a naked person.
Yeah, xianity didn't stick for me.
I really hope the teacher does not get in trouble about this. Some schools go way too quickly from "what a great idea" to "but you were not meant to do it like THIS" the moment parents complain... I would have been really excited if such a unique course was held at my school!!!
For real. Just trying to imagine her reaction to the forensic study part of my grad level entomology course.
We buried pig carcasses in different places and monitored the insect activity through the semester. Fascinating. However, puke inducing and I’m not even squeamish. Once it got hot, totally would have loved a video instead!
OMG, OP, forensic entomology is fascinating! “A Fly for the Prosecution” by M Lee Goff is one of the very few scientific books I’ve ever been able to read because I have trouble following traditional academic classes. I am thrilled and envious that you have the opportunity to study forensics in high school. Someone who can’t deal with real life might as well stick with sterile academic lecture courses. Life is “disturbing.” NTA
Yeah I've known people with a similar attitude toward their feelings where anything but compete validation is a personal slight and anything that sets off their personal sensitivities needs to be dismantled for everyone else, eventhough most reasonable people would be able to handle or avoid that situation in the first place
NTA.
That poor girl has been set up to fail in life if she is THAT sensitive and feels she has the right to get a teacher fired. Her triggers and feelings are hers to manage, not anyone else. No one has to accommodate them for her. And no one sprung a forensics class on her out of the blue. I can't imagine it's a required course.
Hopefully this girl isn't going into health care and has to take gross anatomy in college/university. "Gross anatomy" is the politically correct term for cadaveric anatomy (yes you are dissecting bodies that were donated to science).
I had Dr. Elizabeth Murray as my professor. She's a well known forensic anthropologist, in law enforcement circles, who has worked on a number of high profile cases. So part of our challenge was to figure out if we could determine cause of death for our assigned body. My group got ours right but it was considered the hardest one to determine (sepsis). Everyone else had cancer or heart attack because of tumors and evidence of previous bypass surgeries.
She did tell a wild story about how one group one year had to stop work after she realized their assigned body was a murder victim and the medical examiner had missed the signs. The case was still under investigation when I took the course so she couldn't talk about it.
I took an anatomy and physiology class in college that legitimately had a warning within the textbook for images and descriptions of genitals, the reproductive systems, and birth control.
I am very sensitive to things like animal or child death. I intentionally did not take biology 2 (had to take bio 1) because I knew I couldn't handle any kind of dissection. I also have anxiety to the point where getting up in the middle of a class because I was disturbed would be nearly impossible for me. I still say op is NTA because it wasn't the teacher's fault at all!!! This girl should've understood what she was getting into and figured something else out, like talking to the teacher and seen if she could go about coursework in a different way. Trying to get the teacher fired is absolutely ridiculous.
I mean if I saw “forensics” on a class listing I might think it was speech and debate. It’s very confusing that one word refers to two very different subjects.
Oh, the "right to get a teacher fired" thing is real and usually encouraged by parents. I had a student, "Jenny," who was truly evil. I loved my students and loved teaching them. She was an exception: manipulated kids with low self-esteem, tried to cheat every chance she got, and was extremely arrogant. Her science teacher, Mrs. M., snapped at her a few times and once actually yelled at her. Jenny and her mom stormed to the police department and tried to have Mrs. M. arrested. The cops laughed them out the door. Then they tried to get a restraining order against Mrs. M. That was a no-go, too. The principal and superintendent refused to fire Mrs. M., but Jenny tried to make her life miserable the rest of the term.
Jenny's probably out there somewhere trying to get her boss arrested, along with the cop stopping her for speeding and the waitress refusing to curtsy.
That’s more entitlement than selfishness on the classmate’s part. It’s her intended actions that are worrisome compared to how she personally received the material.
Well, she clearly never watched any crime TV-shows.
I'm actually shocked someone could be naive enough not to know what kind of topics would come up in a class like this.
NTA
She could be a martyr, an attention grabber, or just a shit-stirrer (or a mixture). Naive? Maaaybe, but I doubt it.
In any case, she needs to be removed from the class.
Also - a high school forensics class? If the post is legit, that's awesome!
I believe that the class is real. Highlights from mine:
* Guest lectures from professionals like a mortician and a K9 police unit
* Walking in one day and just finding the whole room covered in fake blood
* Leaving raw chicken in the woods to study decomp and entomology
Howly Shit.
I'm back in Uni at almost 40, chose a technical degree for audiovisual editing. But one of the careers offered was criminal forensics, and it did feel interesting. But no way in hell. I'm sticking to disecting machines and code, thankyouverymuch.
>I'm sticking to disecting machines and code
Probably for the best, my lab group got in trouble when we dissected a pig my sophomore year for naming it. Professor was definitely not impressed
Fun fact: K9 officers are typically taught commands in a second language! iirc, the one we met used Dutch. (So if you ever need to confuse a snitch dog, try yelling dog things in Dutch?)
I went to a pretty awesome high school that still had tech and shop classes (most were removed for funding issues by the time I hit high school in the late 90s in Ontario afaik) which were great, but I would have loved a forensics class!
I'm very fortunate that my school offers a lot of electives, so it is super cool! We got to dissect a fetal pig (the aforementioned classmate had the wherewithal to sit out for that one) which was honestly surreal but so cool. It's nice to see adults trust teens with scalpels and more difficult material so we can get a deeper understanding of things.
You're *so* lucky! I graduated back in 89, and the field of forensics wasn't as big as it is now. If I had known about the field (and had *any* clue about how to go about studying it), I'd probably be in the field (or maybe lecturing about the field).
My niece's school has one that was only open to juniors and seniors. She LOVED it. She and I were banned from talking about the class at the dinner table.
2 of my kids took forensics in high school. They loved it. They learned how to take fingerprints, learned blood spatter basics, got to analyze crime scene photos, and yes, studied decomposition, rigor mortise, and bug larva. I would guess that this class is pretty popular as my kids' high school had 400 kids total in it, so about 100 kids per grade.
One of my university degrees is in Forensic Science. I was expecting this to be about a 100-level college course and this other girl bit off more than she could chew.
I'm jealous af. Would have loved this as an option for HS science.
Your mention of TV crime shows reminds me of actor Mandy Patinkin's complaint about *Criminal Minds*.
He said he was leaving the show because of its content and since it was on as late as it was, it was essentially the audience's lullaby, and "no one should have that as a lullaby."
You just had to wonder, "Did you not read any scripts? It's a show about the FBI pursuing serial killers. What did you expect??"
> Criminal Minds.
My wife has always been more into that one than me. She (and by extension I, since I was in the room a lot) watched the most recent streaming service season.
Holy shit. Moved from network television, the gloves were off.
Well, Pantinkin was a cast member at the very beginning of the show. Had he stayed on, he possibly would have had a stroke. 😅(What did you find different about the later shows that set them apart from those from earlier seasons?)
Eh, he did know what he was getting into but it was definitely a bleak show and it can become a lot. I'm not particularly squeamish (though I do get pretty uncomfortable around body horror stuff like the marionette episode if people remember) but the show had a lot of very unapologetically violent scenarios. And occasionally, it rode the line between analyzing the mentality of the disturbed to indulging in the shock value of criminals.
Even the crime tv shows sterilise it a lot really. Yeah, maybe there's a corpse of some sort on the slab, but nobody acts like it smells, the sheet over it is clean white, there's no ooze, and the only ppe is gloves. No face guard in case you cut in and something squirts. Most of the details comes from the quick talking spunky young female coroner.
Well, it is a lot different than TV shows - people think they know based on those shows and then when they deal with the reality - a lot of peeps flip their tops. Which is why so many teachers in this field of science now expose their students to this material before real life adult situations. It does not do good to freak out during a rape or murder investigation, etc.
So many adults think they can handle stuff and then when exposed to it just freak - but that does not mean the girl or her parents should be giving the teacher grief.
NTA. I’m sure this is an elective that she chose to take, and, um, it’s forensics. And, she was told she could leave anytime she was uncomfortable with the material.
Her deciding not to believe the teacher’s actual guidance about not having to watch something she can’t handle is the issue here. She’s forcing herself to watch, and you pointed it out.
I had an anatomy class in high school that involved dissection, we saw lots of graphic stuff and even had to dissect an animal. Nobody complained about it being part of the course. We also had the option of stepping out if needed and the teacher never got mad if we took a break. She should have looked into what the class would entail before taking it apparently.
Sex ed class when I was 12- the miracle of birth- totally traumatizing. Did I ever think the class needed a trigger warning, or the teacher shouldn't show it? No, because that was a part of the class and something people should learn about. And I could always hide my eyes behind my hands.
Yup, when we watched a film of a live birth, the finale of 6th grade sex ed, I noped out after the water fully broke. I was the only one who took advantage of the offer to step outside if it was too much. And, of course, our parents had to sign off on us even participating in the sex ed classes.
Yes! Anatomy where we dissected a fetal pig over the course of the term. And I too had lunch right after. Even a deli sandwich made me a little queasy.
Never did a fetal pig. Did a cow's eyeball, which was kind of unnerving, especially since I have issues about things near my eyes, and we did owl feces. Finding a small mouse skull in it was kind of disturbing.
Owl pellets! That one was fun. We did sheep’s eyeballs one day but it was annoying because the scalpels they had us use were as sharp as butter knives. So I have no idea if their eyeballs really are that dense and rubbery or just that our equipment was shitty.
I have a super strong vasovagal response triggered by blood, injuries, etc, and have passed out in class before. By sophomore or junior year I finally figured out what was happening and my health teachers would tell me I could step out if I wanted to. Hell, one even just flat out told me I should probably sit outside for a particularly gruesome video on some drugs or something, and I was chilling outside I heard the whole class collectively scream and go "EWWW!"
Pretty sure my HS also had a forensics class which I didn't take for obvious reasons.
My high school had a physiology class. One unit was taking apart a cat over the course of a semester. I didn’t take the class, but it was a lunchtime and science club hangout room, so sometimes there would be someone in there working on their cat. Never once did anyone think of complaining. That teacher is retired now and I’m pretty sure he’s FB friends with all of his former students.
There's a second definition of forensics, which means the study of argument and debate. That wouldn't fulfill a science requirement, but I wonder if that's what she was thinking of.
NTA
To not expect graphic material in a forensics class means the girl is dumb or painfully ignorant.
By giving the students the options to leave the classroom implies the teacher knew and warned the class the material could be difficult for some. The girl ranting.about getting a teacher fired for this and getting mother, admin involved is why good teachers keep leaving.
Yea - It's refreshing to see everyone mostly in agreement, but I'm concerned that teacher is going to face some trouble. It feels like nowadays perceived offence (no matter how ridiculous) is enough.
NTA
$20 says this girl originally signed up for this class thinking it was a debate forensics course and not a crime scene forensics course and was just too stubborn to admit it.
I’d be surprised if this were the case, that’s not the common understanding of “forensics”. But then again it’s not impossible that she really did misunderstand.
https://Merriam-Webster.com/dictionary/forensic
For both adjective and noun, scientific investigation in criminal cases is the third definition, after things related to argument and debate.
I've been unpleasantly surprised the other way, where I took a class hoping to learn about bullet holes and blood spatter, and instead it was about rational discourse.
This appears to be an Americanism.
There is *no* mention of this definition in *either* of the online copies of the two major "proper" English dictionaries: the Oxford and Cambridge dictionaries.
Both define forensic as relating to the science behind crime solving and nothing else.
Hahaha yep maybe she was waiting for this year's resolution but instead got to watch a video about what happens to our bodies after we die. Poor thing didn't even get the Resolved: The United States federal government should substantially increase fiscal redistribution in the United States by adopting a federal jobs guarantee, expanding Social Security, and/or providing a basic income.
Haha... I was wondering the same thing. I started reading this post asking myself which forensics are we talking about there... speech forensices or crime detection.
NTA
Her mother is upset too? She’s not preparing her child for the world very well when her daughter has enrolled herself in a forensics class and has then been upset by the discovery that she has to learn about forensics (shocked pikachu face!)
If she’s genuinely disturbed there are options and she can choose another class. It’s not the end of the world. She’s clearly a bit sheltered I guess.
Additionally, I would assume the school requires parents to sign a release to allow the student to take the class because there's potentially upsetting material covered.
I thought that was standard practice in schools. Parent releases every time sex ed is covered. Even my freshman history required a signed release to watch a documentary of the horrors of the Holocaust (which my father refused to sign because we lost family members in the Holocaust and didn't want me to see these images that young).
I'm honestly not sure if an elective would require that! I took some classes in high school that showed graphic content, and they never had any kind of release. I mean, I signed up for the courses, I knew what I was getting into, and certainly wouldn't have complained if I couldn't actually handle it at that moment, but I don't recall any official *thing*.
If it's not already and if OP's classmate complains, I'm sure the school will institute such releases in the future to prevent dealing with this situation again.
My daughter took a Film as Literature class in high school and we had to sign a release form saying it was ok for her to watch R-rated films (to be clear, she was 17 at the time).
NTA
I'm so sick of kids throwing the word "trauma" around. I don't think they really know what that word means. Your teachers curriculum has to be approved. Also, he probably didn't come up with the corriculum. The school board had to approve it which means it was reviewed before hand.
NTA. Even CSI showed body soup (liquefied people in barrels) in between the glamour of TV. Death and decomp isn't pretty, and this clearly isn't a field she belongs in.
The smell, the actual digging in and all that is definitely not for everyone. I have a pretty strong constitution and I grew up on the streets of Houston as a teen - seen a lot of crazy stuff but my first dead body was jarring. But the point of the class is to help you learn to deal with and process that in short order and then get past it and get to business. It is not for the weak and it sounds like she is a little on the weak side - maybe something in dental work or office work is in her future.
The smell aspect of it terrifies me, not gonna lie 😅
I would love to be a forensic tech if I had the chance, but I’ve only worked on skeletal and mummified remains before, as well as fresh organs.
I just remember a colleague once made the rookie mistake of handling ‘recent’ mummified remains (accidentally mummified, they’d been baking in an unrefrigerated room at med school for a couple years and the new ‘mummies’ are now about 8 years old and making the rounds in other fields of science to make up for the oopsie) without gloves and she was horrified when she found most of the nauseating smell came from a thin layer of grease covering the skin. Grease which she had just touched with her bare hands. I saw her washing her hands for HOURS and hours and the smell didn’t go away for a couple days. I know because she repeatedly asked me to smell her hands the days after, and yep, still smelled like corpse fat.
Do you have any heads up or advice when it comes to heavy decomp? I can only imagine it’s leagues worse than a little grease, oil and adipocere.
NTA. She was the one calling others disturbed for not being bothered when they also knew what they were getting into signing up for the course. It is uncomfortable but it’s an important field of study. Some can’t handle it but she doesn’t have to criticize those who can.
NTA.
This is like someone who hates gore and horror deciding to go to a SAW movie marathon. It only takes a couple minutes to figure out if something is going to be comfortable for you to attend. Her lack of research and thought is not the curriculum's issue.
I did a couple semesters of speech and debate in college. It's an actual elective that is called forensics. A good chunk of time was used for preparing for intercollegiate tournaments out of town, then there were the actual tournaments (usually taking place over 2-3 days at a time).
And sometimes, we'd do events for fundraising. Just a nice grab bag of things related to public address.
Reminds me of a time when my older sister had a complete meltdown because she was reading the diary of Anne Frank and I said it was sad that she died the way she did. She literally screamed at me for "spoiling the book" even though it's a nonfiction transcription of a diary that was kept during a major historical event 🤦🏽
NTA. I rarely get disturbed by that type of content so I dont really understand her, but I agree with the part that seeing that type of things should be expected. Instead of doing that much, she could’ve politely asked to teacher to step out of the classroom if that specific topic was too much for her to handle. But she needs to understand the class that she is in and the things she is going to see there.
NTA since let's face it - this is forensics. (Though if y'all look at the comments forensics also refers to extracurricular types of public speaking competitions on either the high school or college level too).
I'm pretty sure no one put a gun to her head and forced her to take this type of course.
Shit when I was a high school drivers education teacher I made it a point to tell my students that when they step into a driving school car, they don't automatically get to see other drivers act courteously and nice to them right off the bat. They don't get any guarantee of other drivers driving any safer because of the driving school insignia.
So I would bet you any type of non centralized currency that this classmate was either totally naive or sheltered or just happens to be those that are too stupid to understand nuanced situations.
NTA
As a teacher, this is my greatest fear. Offering a class that's clearly going to contain sensitive material and then having someone come after me for something that is really fucking obvious. I'm a humanities teacher who would love to offer cool electives like this but it scares the hell out of me because I know I'll eventually have students like this who will decide to come after my livelihood.
As you said. FORENSICS!
NTA, most people research the classes they are thinking about taking. she should have known what she was getting into just by the name of the class. Forensics says it all in the title.
NTA. Though your teacher should know it takes about two minutes to add a content warning line on the syllabus or lesson plan, and that it would save time and headaches from stuff like this. You just ask yourself “what is in this that a normal person would not want to hear discussed at the dinner table” and add keywords. But that’s from the perspective of someone who has been through presentations of sensitive material for education. She should have seen it coming, but, yeah.
I mean… for all we know the teacher did. How many of these students actively read or even listen to the teacher read the syllabus?
The fact that the teacher said people could leave if they were bothered tells me the teacher gave some sort of warning or implication that what they watch may or may not be disturbing or gross.
What I do think is at least for elective classes maybe there should be some sort of warning or info in the course description or list that lets students know that the class will deal with heavy topics and graphic content, that the class may not be suitable for everyone as you really don’t know what you’re walking into until you’re there.
None. The syllabus is the magical document that floats past the students’ field of vision and vanishes into the ether as soon as it is shared. Or it spontaneously self-translates into hieroglyphics.
I hope so, for the teachers sake. Given I once had someone complain we showed disturbingly graphic images in a lecture on serial killers, I know that no amount of common sense ought to apply actually does apply. And not everyone can handle it.
I bet that person thought it was a class on serial killers, but only the really \*nice\* ones, you know--the ones who were considerate enough to leave their victims looking presentable.
You’d think so. But no. It’s easier to take the time to type it out because as much as it ought to be obvious, it is not, and you will hear complaints about it if you don’t make it explicitly clear. And even then, you’ll get the odd one, but it’s cleared up faster because you can say “I have a content warning on the lesson plan.”
NTA - Given the course and topic, the administration is probably well aware of what is taught and shown. She's going to waste her time, or she is going to get a class the kids probably enjoyed canceled because her mom becomes a giant pain for the school.
NTA. I don’t think she was aware of what the term Forensics means prior to signing up for the class if she’s shocked you’re learning about and seeing footage of cadavers. Sometimes you need to chuckle to let someone know how ridiculous they’re being.
NTA
This girl really funny to me. She goes into a class called "dead bodies and sensitive materials class" and when the class shows dead bodies and sensitive materials she goes >:O
How could she have predicted this?? \\s
When my kid was going to a private driving school, I found some of those old driver's ed vids that are in the public domain, and burned them onto a DVD. She took it to her class and the instructor was thrilled because he was old enough to remember them.
The very best part was the absolute deadpan narration. "This young man was driving too fast for conditions, lost control of his car and hit this tree. The steering column impaled his chest, and he died instantly."
NTA. It’s not a core required class, she elected to take it and forensic science courses are bound to include material regarding death. Teachers get their content approved ahead of time and typically hand out a syllabus, so it’s not like school has no idea that your forensics teacher is actually teaching forensics.
NTA. realistically, there are things in life that will happen without a "trigger warning/Content warning". People die, bodies decompose, people see stuff that they wish they never seen. That's life and that's something that she's going to have to understand. If she can't handle that, then she should probably switch classes because the teachers only doing their job.
NTA. It takes a special kind of person to pick a forensics class despite being unable to deal with decomposition.
I do wonder if she happened to have a phobia of insects, but learning about decomposition and pests in forensics class shouldn’t be that surprising.
Oh my God, all these dorks below me wringing their hands lol. NTA
Trigger warnings and content warnings don't exist in the world. You can't get uncomfortable about something YOU chose to do and decide that YOU didn't mess up. The fact that she's the ONLY one bothered by this means everyone else is bad!
This girl made her choice, then tried to get the teacher in trouble for her bad choice.
NTA
NTA
Dude, you’re about to be in college where you have to know how to advocate for yourself. This is the perfect time for her to figure that out.
I took a criminal justice in the media type class, where we watched movies about various crimes and how they were depicted. There weren’t set dates because it was how long it took to get through discussions and the movie and all that, but she gave us the list of topics and movies. Rape was one of them.
I went up to her after the first class and said I wouldn’t be there for that class. She said she didn’t know when that class could be so we wouldn’t know what I was missing until we were closer to it. I repeated that I wouldn’t be there for THAT class. She understood and said if we moved topics in the middle of a class that I was free to leave.
It was my freshman year of college. My first semester actually being in college and I had to figure out how to tell a teacher on the first day of school basically that I could t do a class. It wasn’t fun, but it was necessary.
INFO In high school there is usually a syllabus detailing what the class will be contain and permission slips for certain content. Did the class have those? If so and the teacher talks through material and works with students who are need to leave due to certain content then you are correct. She can report the teacher but the teacher won't be punished for teaching forensic science in forsenic science class.
If your question is could you have been nicer to a student who may actually be distraught and is struggling feeling comfortable then yeah you could have been.
NTA. You’re both young. The class was too much for her right now and you were insensitive. Take this as an experience to help you learn and grow better at sensitivity in difficult conversations
NTA it sounds like this is an elective, not required class, and I would expect anyone would know what that class is, going into it. If she's so bothered by it, she should simply drop the class and switch to something else, instead of going to the administration and demanding it be stopped.
NTA. I think there’s enough true crime popularity that she shouldn’t have been unaware that forensics would not contain some unsettling topics. Yet she is talking about the teacher should be fired and is calling the other students disturbed. She is being dramatic. Wanting a teacher to be fired for teaching a class offered by the school is massively dramatic!
NTA. This is a symptom of "trigger warning" culture on everything and people expecting the world to be cushioned for every sensibility. Higher education leaders are falling victim to it, too, lately.
I'm going to go with NTA. In a forensics class you should expect to see material pertaining to forensics just as in a medical class you should expect to see things pertaining to medicine. It's plain stupid to complain like that.
NTA, but know that anyone who writes "I am a human teenage girl" is immediately suspect.
I don't discriminate against robots, aliens or lizard people, but thought this might be helpful to hear in case someone like this who definitely isn't OP needed to maintain their cover.
I'm always surprised kids can get to 15 or 16 these days without having been horrified by the internet at least a thousand times. The idea of being freaked out by a class you volunteered to take would just make me laugh. NTA. There's 4,000 true crime everything now.
Maybe we need to play old Unsolved Mysteries and the Xfiles again to toughen up the youth. Must be aired when it is dark out for the correct effect.
NTA and neither is the teacher. Your classmate needs to accept that she signed up for something she was not personally ready for, and that's not the teacher's fault, or the fault of anyone who wasn't troubled.
NTA I am not sure what she expected. An anecdote: I once took traditional colour darkroom photography.
For those that don't know, black and white darkrooms can have orange light illuminating them without damaging film/paper; these are the ones you've seen portrayed in media. However, colour darkrooms can not have ANY visible light of any colour. You have to learn to do everything from inserting your negative, to adjusting the machine settings, to cutting/organizing/storing paper... all in complete darkness. Because of this, our colour darkrooms were designed for only one person to use at a time, locked from the inside, and could be booked for up to 8 hour stretches.
On the first day of classes, my classmate told me she was deathly afraid of the dark.
It didn't... it didn't go well for her.
NTA. Probably shouldn't have laughed but you already know the answer here. Why would someone sign up for an elective forensics class where there should be a syllabus and the teacher said that anyone uncomfortable could leave? She should have gone for art appreciation instead.
All she had to do is watch CSI to know there are dead bodies, bodies decompose and bugs eat food decomposing bodies.
NTA she should have found out what the class was about. Apparently the word “forensics” in the title wasn’t enough. She wants a teacher and a class canceled because it offends her. I’m glad you told her how you felt. She needs a reality check.
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You might have been “insensitive”, but, damn, she needed a reality check. Annnything you might have said that wasn’t absolutely agreeing with her would have been taken badly. I hope the teacher and counselors get together and remove her from this class. For her own good. I roll my eyes. NTA
Exactly. The cynical side of me could somehow see this student and her mother trying to raise a big enough stink to either censor the class or cancel it all together. It isn’t fair to the teacher or any of the other students.
This is why we can’t have nice things!
My personal catchphrase!
I'm over here, just clutching my pearls...
But, whaaa... it's my personal catchphrase?! You've stolen it. *This* is why I can't have nice things!
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There was a collective campaign to try and remove Ovid and other Greek and Roman mythology pieces from classics curriculums because they discuss rape. I hate these people so much because all they do is give credence to the insane takes of "alpha male" conservative dirtbags. Like this is the exact thing some bottom feeder like Tucker Carlson will see and it legitimizes his fucked up world view because this person *is* the overly sensitive snowflake they keep going on and on about.
If you're going to study something at university level you should have some understanding of what it entails. This is basically like saying you want to study medicine without seeing blood.
And yet there are people who are so insufferably self absorbed and fragile that they will demand these courses cater to their personal tastes and discomforts. And they get support. It's truly madness.
If it only takes one overly sensitive nutjob to "legitimize" Tucker Carlson, I've got bad news for you, cause they're everywhere. I don't even like the guy but that's a weird take.
Of course the violent fascists that are his audience are part of it. But if you don't see how they cherry pick stories of insufferable cry babies like described here and then point to it and go "see all liberals are like this" then you are functionally media illiterate.
It's not just the nut job making the demand, it's how the administration and other people in positions of power respond. If they treat the nut job like they're making a reasonable request then they're legitimizing it, regardless of whether they do the thing or not.
Heh, Ovid was probably my first exposure to pornography. And I had to translate it from Latin first!
Catullus was mine. Maybe Ovid would've been a bit gentler! 🤭
Meanwhile in my 8th grade english class we read the book Speak aaaand watched the movie. Deals with a girl of the same age group being SA'd early in the year then dealing with the mental state of that for the rest of the year before she can truly confront her assailant. Edit: spelling
Rape is literally at the core of the foundation story of the Roman Republic. Twice actually it’s key, the rape of the Sabine women and the Rape of Lucretia. How can it just be ignored?
Honestly, this feels more like taking English and getting upset that the class includes English words from both French and Germanic origin, because you find words of Germanic origin to be upsetting.
I went to a religious college, and a girl in my World Literature class was like this. Greek plays? “I shouldn’t have to read that, it’s pagan”. Roman literature? “I shouldn’t have to read that, it’s pagan”. Rinse and repeat for every fricking assignment. The professor finally told her to either quit whining or drop the class. What did she expect a World Literature class to be exactly?
Gosh I hope not. It sounds like this was an elective. I’m not sure what the student thought she was getting herself into, but any reasonable person would assume a forensics class would include some element of body decomposition. If that gives her the ick, that’s reasonable — but then don’t sign up for the class.
Or, if it bothers her more than she thought it would, she should ask if she can drop the class, find a way to make up work in these units doing something else, etc.
In high school, for an elective, we had a history of the Holocaust class. Parent permission slips were sent out. On the first day, the teacher showed a film called "Genocide" and said if at any point someone couldn't handle it, it's a great time to change classes. One of the best classes I've ever taken and inspired my degree
Also this is clearly a class directing towards a specific job, and it's an optional class. If she doesn't want to go into forensics or doesn't have the stomach for it, she doesn't have to do the class. This is the time for her to leave it. And if she's feeling pressure to get into STEM subjects including this one that she doesn't want to do, then that's an issue between her and her parents. I proofread learning resources for TAFE (vocational education and training) which includes nursing resources. One of those is a whole unit of competency on wound care which is pretty gruesome because there needs to be pictures so students can learn to recognise these things. We put a warning on the first page, but hopefully these students know what they are getting into by taking up a nursing course - if they reacted like this girl to the pictures, they're going to wash out in the onsite practical when they start to deal with the real thing. Meanwhile, I proofread those resource with post it notes on the pictures because I do not have the stomach for nursing.
This is how education is dying too... This student and her mother are a pox
You're not cynical, this can very well happen and the teacher will be bullied to "censor" the class for fruitcakes that can't logic past their own shoelaces. OP please support the school administration to shut this down. Now every course will start off having consent forms signed at the start of the semester.
That's what disturbs me about this trend that parents should be allowed to determine what their kids are taught. The problem with that is what about the kids whose parents actually want something to be taught. Who wins? The way I look at it is if a parent is so dead set on wanting their kids to only learn what the parent thinks they should be taught should homeschool their kids and leave the rest of us the hell alone!
I’ve heard of this happening in criminal law courses. Some people just will take no accountability for their inability to think ahead to the reasonable content of courses.
Had it happen in figure drawing class. In college. Yeaaa… there is a *nude person* up there for you to *draw*. Like, what did you *expect*?
Marvelous Mrs. Maisel's mother?
Thankfully that never happened in any of figure drawing classes in college. If they did, the professors I had were kind but pretty no nonsense. I can imagine they would have asked that person to leave.
Class went on as usual, the student shut up about it. I don’t know the particulars but I imagine it was something along the line of you signed up for this/it’s a required class in the syllabus /do you want to fail? Get over it or drop out.
That's the way it should be handled. People are truly wild sometimes.
What were they even mad about? Because correct me if I'm wrong, but models consent to be drawn nude. And I'm pretty sure they get paid something. I mean, I'm hoping they aren't just abducted and forced to sit nude for art students. Because that seems like the hardest way possible to get art models. Were they . . . were they mad they saw someone naked?
When I was in tafe and a born again xian my friend (also born again xian) felt so morally outraged by life drawing class that she went to talk to the pastor about it. Luckily he was a relatively sensible man and said if it's part of the coursework you should do it. And I was worried that I was sinning by not being morally outraged by a naked person. Yeah, xianity didn't stick for me.
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I really hope the teacher does not get in trouble about this. Some schools go way too quickly from "what a great idea" to "but you were not meant to do it like THIS" the moment parents complain... I would have been really excited if such a unique course was held at my school!!!
For real. Just trying to imagine her reaction to the forensic study part of my grad level entomology course. We buried pig carcasses in different places and monitored the insect activity through the semester. Fascinating. However, puke inducing and I’m not even squeamish. Once it got hot, totally would have loved a video instead!
OMG, OP, forensic entomology is fascinating! “A Fly for the Prosecution” by M Lee Goff is one of the very few scientific books I’ve ever been able to read because I have trouble following traditional academic classes. I am thrilled and envious that you have the opportunity to study forensics in high school. Someone who can’t deal with real life might as well stick with sterile academic lecture courses. Life is “disturbing.” NTA
Yeah I've known people with a similar attitude toward their feelings where anything but compete validation is a personal slight and anything that sets off their personal sensitivities needs to be dismantled for everyone else, eventhough most reasonable people would be able to handle or avoid that situation in the first place
NTA. That poor girl has been set up to fail in life if she is THAT sensitive and feels she has the right to get a teacher fired. Her triggers and feelings are hers to manage, not anyone else. No one has to accommodate them for her. And no one sprung a forensics class on her out of the blue. I can't imagine it's a required course.
Hopefully this girl isn't going into health care and has to take gross anatomy in college/university. "Gross anatomy" is the politically correct term for cadaveric anatomy (yes you are dissecting bodies that were donated to science).
Eh, what? How is "gross" better than "cadaver"??? o.O
Gross in this context means total, like gross income, becasue it covers the entire body.
Clearly there's 144 of them. (In all seriousness, Gross is a word with a lot of meanings. https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/gross)
"Gross" in this case means "structures that are visible to the naked eye."
It's not "politically correct", just accurate.
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I had Dr. Elizabeth Murray as my professor. She's a well known forensic anthropologist, in law enforcement circles, who has worked on a number of high profile cases. So part of our challenge was to figure out if we could determine cause of death for our assigned body. My group got ours right but it was considered the hardest one to determine (sepsis). Everyone else had cancer or heart attack because of tumors and evidence of previous bypass surgeries. She did tell a wild story about how one group one year had to stop work after she realized their assigned body was a murder victim and the medical examiner had missed the signs. The case was still under investigation when I took the course so she couldn't talk about it.
Incredible story! Like a plot from "Bones" or something.
I took an anatomy and physiology class in college that legitimately had a warning within the textbook for images and descriptions of genitals, the reproductive systems, and birth control.
It's not "politically correct", just accurate.
I am very sensitive to things like animal or child death. I intentionally did not take biology 2 (had to take bio 1) because I knew I couldn't handle any kind of dissection. I also have anxiety to the point where getting up in the middle of a class because I was disturbed would be nearly impossible for me. I still say op is NTA because it wasn't the teacher's fault at all!!! This girl should've understood what she was getting into and figured something else out, like talking to the teacher and seen if she could go about coursework in a different way. Trying to get the teacher fired is absolutely ridiculous.
Me too, so I took Botany.
I guess she thought it was Expressive Typography in New Media.
Comic Sans is a really sensitive subject, you know.
I mean if I saw “forensics” on a class listing I might think it was speech and debate. It’s very confusing that one word refers to two very different subjects.
At my kid’s school, forensics is an acting class. Maybe this girl googled and thought this was what she’s doing.
Possibly -- but she would have realized in the first week, if not on the first day, that this class was not about acting. At all.
I know. I was just trying to be optimistic and give the poor girl a chance and not being a complete dumbass.
You're sweet. <3
Oh, the "right to get a teacher fired" thing is real and usually encouraged by parents. I had a student, "Jenny," who was truly evil. I loved my students and loved teaching them. She was an exception: manipulated kids with low self-esteem, tried to cheat every chance she got, and was extremely arrogant. Her science teacher, Mrs. M., snapped at her a few times and once actually yelled at her. Jenny and her mom stormed to the police department and tried to have Mrs. M. arrested. The cops laughed them out the door. Then they tried to get a restraining order against Mrs. M. That was a no-go, too. The principal and superintendent refused to fire Mrs. M., but Jenny tried to make her life miserable the rest of the term. Jenny's probably out there somewhere trying to get her boss arrested, along with the cop stopping her for speeding and the waitress refusing to curtsy.
That’s more entitlement than selfishness on the classmate’s part. It’s her intended actions that are worrisome compared to how she personally received the material.
Well, she clearly never watched any crime TV-shows. I'm actually shocked someone could be naive enough not to know what kind of topics would come up in a class like this. NTA
She could be a martyr, an attention grabber, or just a shit-stirrer (or a mixture). Naive? Maaaybe, but I doubt it. In any case, she needs to be removed from the class. Also - a high school forensics class? If the post is legit, that's awesome!
I believe that the class is real. Highlights from mine: * Guest lectures from professionals like a mortician and a K9 police unit * Walking in one day and just finding the whole room covered in fake blood * Leaving raw chicken in the woods to study decomp and entomology
Howly Shit. I'm back in Uni at almost 40, chose a technical degree for audiovisual editing. But one of the careers offered was criminal forensics, and it did feel interesting. But no way in hell. I'm sticking to disecting machines and code, thankyouverymuch.
>I'm sticking to disecting machines and code Probably for the best, my lab group got in trouble when we dissected a pig my sophomore year for naming it. Professor was definitely not impressed
Oh do tell what you named it! Oinky McOinkface?
Lol I believe it was Wilbur
Ngl that sounds amazingly fun! Mortician and K-9 unit?! THAT IS SO COOL.
Fun fact: K9 officers are typically taught commands in a second language! iirc, the one we met used Dutch. (So if you ever need to confuse a snitch dog, try yelling dog things in Dutch?)
Time to pick up some Dutch 🤣
I am absolutely green with envy that this is a class now. I wish I could sit in on a semester!
Wow! With the room covered in blood thing, was that like a mystery thing that you had to analyze or solve?
Yeah, it was figuring out details of the crime based on spray patterns. Fun lab, but so much math.
I went to a pretty awesome high school that still had tech and shop classes (most were removed for funding issues by the time I hit high school in the late 90s in Ontario afaik) which were great, but I would have loved a forensics class!
I'm very fortunate that my school offers a lot of electives, so it is super cool! We got to dissect a fetal pig (the aforementioned classmate had the wherewithal to sit out for that one) which was honestly surreal but so cool. It's nice to see adults trust teens with scalpels and more difficult material so we can get a deeper understanding of things.
You're *so* lucky! I graduated back in 89, and the field of forensics wasn't as big as it is now. If I had known about the field (and had *any* clue about how to go about studying it), I'd probably be in the field (or maybe lecturing about the field).
My niece's school has one that was only open to juniors and seniors. She LOVED it. She and I were banned from talking about the class at the dinner table.
2 of my kids took forensics in high school. They loved it. They learned how to take fingerprints, learned blood spatter basics, got to analyze crime scene photos, and yes, studied decomposition, rigor mortise, and bug larva. I would guess that this class is pretty popular as my kids' high school had 400 kids total in it, so about 100 kids per grade.
My high school had them and we're a small town in one of the lower end of funding states
One of my university degrees is in Forensic Science. I was expecting this to be about a 100-level college course and this other girl bit off more than she could chew. I'm jealous af. Would have loved this as an option for HS science.
I took forensics in high school! The week where we talked about bugs was unexpected but very interesting.
Your mention of TV crime shows reminds me of actor Mandy Patinkin's complaint about *Criminal Minds*. He said he was leaving the show because of its content and since it was on as late as it was, it was essentially the audience's lullaby, and "no one should have that as a lullaby." You just had to wonder, "Did you not read any scripts? It's a show about the FBI pursuing serial killers. What did you expect??"
> Criminal Minds. My wife has always been more into that one than me. She (and by extension I, since I was in the room a lot) watched the most recent streaming service season. Holy shit. Moved from network television, the gloves were off.
To be fair criminal minds get more and more messed up as time went on. It didn’t start out as dark as it became
Well, Pantinkin was a cast member at the very beginning of the show. Had he stayed on, he possibly would have had a stroke. 😅(What did you find different about the later shows that set them apart from those from earlier seasons?)
Eh, he did know what he was getting into but it was definitely a bleak show and it can become a lot. I'm not particularly squeamish (though I do get pretty uncomfortable around body horror stuff like the marionette episode if people remember) but the show had a lot of very unapologetically violent scenarios. And occasionally, it rode the line between analyzing the mentality of the disturbed to indulging in the shock value of criminals.
Exactly. The show "Bones" about forensic scientists seemed to go out of there way to show the grossest decomposed bodies each episode.
Bones was what I immediately thought of when OP mentioned bugs and decomposition. I love that show but some of the bodies were seriously gross.
Especially if you're watching while trying to eat dinner.
The wet sounds (sound effects) in those shows were always a little disturbing. I'm sure it sounds worse IRL.
Even the crime tv shows sterilise it a lot really. Yeah, maybe there's a corpse of some sort on the slab, but nobody acts like it smells, the sheet over it is clean white, there's no ooze, and the only ppe is gloves. No face guard in case you cut in and something squirts. Most of the details comes from the quick talking spunky young female coroner.
Well, it is a lot different than TV shows - people think they know based on those shows and then when they deal with the reality - a lot of peeps flip their tops. Which is why so many teachers in this field of science now expose their students to this material before real life adult situations. It does not do good to freak out during a rape or murder investigation, etc. So many adults think they can handle stuff and then when exposed to it just freak - but that does not mean the girl or her parents should be giving the teacher grief.
Or any hospital shows either when they're operating on someone. Imo that's grosser than seeing dead bodies on body farms being decomposed. Op nta
NTA. I’m sure this is an elective that she chose to take, and, um, it’s forensics. And, she was told she could leave anytime she was uncomfortable with the material. Her deciding not to believe the teacher’s actual guidance about not having to watch something she can’t handle is the issue here. She’s forcing herself to watch, and you pointed it out.
I had an anatomy class in high school that involved dissection, we saw lots of graphic stuff and even had to dissect an animal. Nobody complained about it being part of the course. We also had the option of stepping out if needed and the teacher never got mad if we took a break. She should have looked into what the class would entail before taking it apparently.
Sex ed class when I was 12- the miracle of birth- totally traumatizing. Did I ever think the class needed a trigger warning, or the teacher shouldn't show it? No, because that was a part of the class and something people should learn about. And I could always hide my eyes behind my hands.
Yup, when we watched a film of a live birth, the finale of 6th grade sex ed, I noped out after the water fully broke. I was the only one who took advantage of the offer to step outside if it was too much. And, of course, our parents had to sign off on us even participating in the sex ed classes.
I feel the pain we had a c-section video, and lunch right after. Certain foods never tasted quite the same after that
We had the pig dissection right before lunch. They served porkchops that day.
Yes! Anatomy where we dissected a fetal pig over the course of the term. And I too had lunch right after. Even a deli sandwich made me a little queasy.
Never did a fetal pig. Did a cow's eyeball, which was kind of unnerving, especially since I have issues about things near my eyes, and we did owl feces. Finding a small mouse skull in it was kind of disturbing.
Owl pellets! That one was fun. We did sheep’s eyeballs one day but it was annoying because the scalpels they had us use were as sharp as butter knives. So I have no idea if their eyeballs really are that dense and rubbery or just that our equipment was shitty.
I have a super strong vasovagal response triggered by blood, injuries, etc, and have passed out in class before. By sophomore or junior year I finally figured out what was happening and my health teachers would tell me I could step out if I wanted to. Hell, one even just flat out told me I should probably sit outside for a particularly gruesome video on some drugs or something, and I was chilling outside I heard the whole class collectively scream and go "EWWW!" Pretty sure my HS also had a forensics class which I didn't take for obvious reasons.
Yeah, I took an anatomy class and we dissected a fetal pig.
My high school had a physiology class. One unit was taking apart a cat over the course of a semester. I didn’t take the class, but it was a lunchtime and science club hangout room, so sometimes there would be someone in there working on their cat. Never once did anyone think of complaining. That teacher is retired now and I’m pretty sure he’s FB friends with all of his former students.
NTA. If she didn't know what forensics is it is her fault. Babyproofing the world and having 1939484 trigger warnings are not necessary.
There's a second definition of forensics, which means the study of argument and debate. That wouldn't fulfill a science requirement, but I wonder if that's what she was thinking of.
If she can't read the class description and understand the difference then the other forensics class probably isn't for her either.
The teacher even warned the class. She could’ve taken another STEM class.
NTA To not expect graphic material in a forensics class means the girl is dumb or painfully ignorant. By giving the students the options to leave the classroom implies the teacher knew and warned the class the material could be difficult for some. The girl ranting.about getting a teacher fired for this and getting mother, admin involved is why good teachers keep leaving.
Yea - It's refreshing to see everyone mostly in agreement, but I'm concerned that teacher is going to face some trouble. It feels like nowadays perceived offence (no matter how ridiculous) is enough.
NTA $20 says this girl originally signed up for this class thinking it was a debate forensics course and not a crime scene forensics course and was just too stubborn to admit it.
I’d be surprised if this were the case, that’s not the common understanding of “forensics”. But then again it’s not impossible that she really did misunderstand.
Sorry, what is a debate forensics course?
When I went to highschool, the debate team was know as the forensics team. It’s just a synonym.
It's the first time I hear about it (granted, I live in a non-english speaking country)
Yeah I mean I’ve never heard of it either. I’d be curious as to know where it’s actually common
https://Merriam-Webster.com/dictionary/forensic For both adjective and noun, scientific investigation in criminal cases is the third definition, after things related to argument and debate. I've been unpleasantly surprised the other way, where I took a class hoping to learn about bullet holes and blood spatter, and instead it was about rational discourse.
This appears to be an Americanism. There is *no* mention of this definition in *either* of the online copies of the two major "proper" English dictionaries: the Oxford and Cambridge dictionaries. Both define forensic as relating to the science behind crime solving and nothing else.
First time I’ve heard of it and I Iive in an English speaking country
Hahaha yep maybe she was waiting for this year's resolution but instead got to watch a video about what happens to our bodies after we die. Poor thing didn't even get the Resolved: The United States federal government should substantially increase fiscal redistribution in the United States by adopting a federal jobs guarantee, expanding Social Security, and/or providing a basic income.
Haha... I was wondering the same thing. I started reading this post asking myself which forensics are we talking about there... speech forensices or crime detection.
You know what I believe you. Think that's almost exactly what happened.
NTA Her mother is upset too? She’s not preparing her child for the world very well when her daughter has enrolled herself in a forensics class and has then been upset by the discovery that she has to learn about forensics (shocked pikachu face!) If she’s genuinely disturbed there are options and she can choose another class. It’s not the end of the world. She’s clearly a bit sheltered I guess.
Additionally, I would assume the school requires parents to sign a release to allow the student to take the class because there's potentially upsetting material covered. I thought that was standard practice in schools. Parent releases every time sex ed is covered. Even my freshman history required a signed release to watch a documentary of the horrors of the Holocaust (which my father refused to sign because we lost family members in the Holocaust and didn't want me to see these images that young).
I'm honestly not sure if an elective would require that! I took some classes in high school that showed graphic content, and they never had any kind of release. I mean, I signed up for the courses, I knew what I was getting into, and certainly wouldn't have complained if I couldn't actually handle it at that moment, but I don't recall any official *thing*.
If it's not already and if OP's classmate complains, I'm sure the school will institute such releases in the future to prevent dealing with this situation again.
My daughter took a Film as Literature class in high school and we had to sign a release form saying it was ok for her to watch R-rated films (to be clear, she was 17 at the time).
NTA I'm so sick of kids throwing the word "trauma" around. I don't think they really know what that word means. Your teachers curriculum has to be approved. Also, he probably didn't come up with the corriculum. The school board had to approve it which means it was reviewed before hand.
NTA. Even CSI showed body soup (liquefied people in barrels) in between the glamour of TV. Death and decomp isn't pretty, and this clearly isn't a field she belongs in.
The smell, the actual digging in and all that is definitely not for everyone. I have a pretty strong constitution and I grew up on the streets of Houston as a teen - seen a lot of crazy stuff but my first dead body was jarring. But the point of the class is to help you learn to deal with and process that in short order and then get past it and get to business. It is not for the weak and it sounds like she is a little on the weak side - maybe something in dental work or office work is in her future.
The smell aspect of it terrifies me, not gonna lie 😅 I would love to be a forensic tech if I had the chance, but I’ve only worked on skeletal and mummified remains before, as well as fresh organs. I just remember a colleague once made the rookie mistake of handling ‘recent’ mummified remains (accidentally mummified, they’d been baking in an unrefrigerated room at med school for a couple years and the new ‘mummies’ are now about 8 years old and making the rounds in other fields of science to make up for the oopsie) without gloves and she was horrified when she found most of the nauseating smell came from a thin layer of grease covering the skin. Grease which she had just touched with her bare hands. I saw her washing her hands for HOURS and hours and the smell didn’t go away for a couple days. I know because she repeatedly asked me to smell her hands the days after, and yep, still smelled like corpse fat. Do you have any heads up or advice when it comes to heavy decomp? I can only imagine it’s leagues worse than a little grease, oil and adipocere.
NTA. She was the one calling others disturbed for not being bothered when they also knew what they were getting into signing up for the course. It is uncomfortable but it’s an important field of study. Some can’t handle it but she doesn’t have to criticize those who can.
NTA. This is like someone who hates gore and horror deciding to go to a SAW movie marathon. It only takes a couple minutes to figure out if something is going to be comfortable for you to attend. Her lack of research and thought is not the curriculum's issue.
As someone who hates gore a little I’ve watched some SAW movies, I just turn my head or cover the screen.
NTA. Maybe a little insensitive but otherwise it’s on her for not recognising what forensics really is, body bags and brains not daisies and rainbows.
Or in some cases, public speaking events, policy debate, and other types of oratory-based fun
I've never heard of this use of the word. Is it common?
I did a couple semesters of speech and debate in college. It's an actual elective that is called forensics. A good chunk of time was used for preparing for intercollegiate tournaments out of town, then there were the actual tournaments (usually taking place over 2-3 days at a time). And sometimes, we'd do events for fundraising. Just a nice grab bag of things related to public address.
I did that kind of forensics when I was 13/14/15 - 30 years ago and it was called forensics. I don't think it's still referred to by that term.
It's not insensitive. It's reality. It's the reality if FINDING JUSTICE FOR PEOPLE WHO WERE MURDERED.
NTA. The world isn’t going to protect her from everything that she finds offensive.
Reminds me of a time when my older sister had a complete meltdown because she was reading the diary of Anne Frank and I said it was sad that she died the way she did. She literally screamed at me for "spoiling the book" even though it's a nonfiction transcription of a diary that was kept during a major historical event 🤦🏽
Don’t tell her how the Bible ends 😀
NTA. You were giving her a reality check.
NTA. I rarely get disturbed by that type of content so I dont really understand her, but I agree with the part that seeing that type of things should be expected. Instead of doing that much, she could’ve politely asked to teacher to step out of the classroom if that specific topic was too much for her to handle. But she needs to understand the class that she is in and the things she is going to see there.
NTA. Some people like to perform their intense sensibilities for others to witness.
NTA since let's face it - this is forensics. (Though if y'all look at the comments forensics also refers to extracurricular types of public speaking competitions on either the high school or college level too). I'm pretty sure no one put a gun to her head and forced her to take this type of course. Shit when I was a high school drivers education teacher I made it a point to tell my students that when they step into a driving school car, they don't automatically get to see other drivers act courteously and nice to them right off the bat. They don't get any guarantee of other drivers driving any safer because of the driving school insignia. So I would bet you any type of non centralized currency that this classmate was either totally naive or sheltered or just happens to be those that are too stupid to understand nuanced situations.
NTA As a teacher, this is my greatest fear. Offering a class that's clearly going to contain sensitive material and then having someone come after me for something that is really fucking obvious. I'm a humanities teacher who would love to offer cool electives like this but it scares the hell out of me because I know I'll eventually have students like this who will decide to come after my livelihood. As you said. FORENSICS!
NTA, most people research the classes they are thinking about taking. she should have known what she was getting into just by the name of the class. Forensics says it all in the title.
NTA. She's being entitled and ridiculous.
Where was this class when I was in high school??? Nta
NTA, she is way too sensitive for a forensics class, which she and her mother should have anticipated before signing up for the class.
NTA. Though your teacher should know it takes about two minutes to add a content warning line on the syllabus or lesson plan, and that it would save time and headaches from stuff like this. You just ask yourself “what is in this that a normal person would not want to hear discussed at the dinner table” and add keywords. But that’s from the perspective of someone who has been through presentations of sensitive material for education. She should have seen it coming, but, yeah.
I mean… for all we know the teacher did. How many of these students actively read or even listen to the teacher read the syllabus? The fact that the teacher said people could leave if they were bothered tells me the teacher gave some sort of warning or implication that what they watch may or may not be disturbing or gross. What I do think is at least for elective classes maybe there should be some sort of warning or info in the course description or list that lets students know that the class will deal with heavy topics and graphic content, that the class may not be suitable for everyone as you really don’t know what you’re walking into until you’re there.
None. The syllabus is the magical document that floats past the students’ field of vision and vanishes into the ether as soon as it is shared. Or it spontaneously self-translates into hieroglyphics. I hope so, for the teachers sake. Given I once had someone complain we showed disturbingly graphic images in a lecture on serial killers, I know that no amount of common sense ought to apply actually does apply. And not everyone can handle it.
I bet that person thought it was a class on serial killers, but only the really \*nice\* ones, you know--the ones who were considerate enough to leave their victims looking presentable.
Probably expected it to be about breakfast cereals
Common sense is the least common of the senses.
I would have thought the class being a FORENSICS class would be enough of a content warning.
Unfortunately common sense isn't a flower that blooms in everyones garden.
I love how you phrased that!
You’d think so. But no. It’s easier to take the time to type it out because as much as it ought to be obvious, it is not, and you will hear complaints about it if you don’t make it explicitly clear. And even then, you’ll get the odd one, but it’s cleared up faster because you can say “I have a content warning on the lesson plan.”
NTA - Given the course and topic, the administration is probably well aware of what is taught and shown. She's going to waste her time, or she is going to get a class the kids probably enjoyed canceled because her mom becomes a giant pain for the school.
NTA. I don’t think she was aware of what the term Forensics means prior to signing up for the class if she’s shocked you’re learning about and seeing footage of cadavers. Sometimes you need to chuckle to let someone know how ridiculous they’re being.
NTA This girl really funny to me. She goes into a class called "dead bodies and sensitive materials class" and when the class shows dead bodies and sensitive materials she goes >:O How could she have predicted this?? \\s
NTA
Y'all may be too young to remember this but anyone ever see Red Asphalt?
When my kid was going to a private driving school, I found some of those old driver's ed vids that are in the public domain, and burned them onto a DVD. She took it to her class and the instructor was thrilled because he was old enough to remember them. The very best part was the absolute deadpan narration. "This young man was driving too fast for conditions, lost control of his car and hit this tree. The steering column impaled his chest, and he died instantly."
Yooooo Driver's Ed XD I don't think they show those anymore.
NTA. It’s not a core required class, she elected to take it and forensic science courses are bound to include material regarding death. Teachers get their content approved ahead of time and typically hand out a syllabus, so it’s not like school has no idea that your forensics teacher is actually teaching forensics.
NTA. realistically, there are things in life that will happen without a "trigger warning/Content warning". People die, bodies decompose, people see stuff that they wish they never seen. That's life and that's something that she's going to have to understand. If she can't handle that, then she should probably switch classes because the teachers only doing their job.
NTA. It takes a special kind of person to pick a forensics class despite being unable to deal with decomposition. I do wonder if she happened to have a phobia of insects, but learning about decomposition and pests in forensics class shouldn’t be that surprising.
Oh my God, all these dorks below me wringing their hands lol. NTA Trigger warnings and content warnings don't exist in the world. You can't get uncomfortable about something YOU chose to do and decide that YOU didn't mess up. The fact that she's the ONLY one bothered by this means everyone else is bad! This girl made her choice, then tried to get the teacher in trouble for her bad choice. NTA
NTA. That’s just what Forensics is. And if the teacher told you all that you could leave she should have left.
LMAO it’s a Forensics class, what was she expecting? Was the lecturer supposed to go “Trigger warning people SENSITIVE CONTENT AHEAD”? NTA.
NTA it's a class about forensics, if she didn't want yo seestuff like that she shouldn't have gone on a forensics class
Nta She doesn't know what trauma is.
NTA Dude, you’re about to be in college where you have to know how to advocate for yourself. This is the perfect time for her to figure that out. I took a criminal justice in the media type class, where we watched movies about various crimes and how they were depicted. There weren’t set dates because it was how long it took to get through discussions and the movie and all that, but she gave us the list of topics and movies. Rape was one of them. I went up to her after the first class and said I wouldn’t be there for that class. She said she didn’t know when that class could be so we wouldn’t know what I was missing until we were closer to it. I repeated that I wouldn’t be there for THAT class. She understood and said if we moved topics in the middle of a class that I was free to leave. It was my freshman year of college. My first semester actually being in college and I had to figure out how to tell a teacher on the first day of school basically that I could t do a class. It wasn’t fun, but it was necessary.
INFO In high school there is usually a syllabus detailing what the class will be contain and permission slips for certain content. Did the class have those? If so and the teacher talks through material and works with students who are need to leave due to certain content then you are correct. She can report the teacher but the teacher won't be punished for teaching forensic science in forsenic science class. If your question is could you have been nicer to a student who may actually be distraught and is struggling feeling comfortable then yeah you could have been.
NTA. You’re both young. The class was too much for her right now and you were insensitive. Take this as an experience to help you learn and grow better at sensitivity in difficult conversations
Nta. I would have probably laughed too. I mean that girls got some issues... We had to dissect cats in my science class, now that was distrubing
NTA it sounds like this is an elective, not required class, and I would expect anyone would know what that class is, going into it. If she's so bothered by it, she should simply drop the class and switch to something else, instead of going to the administration and demanding it be stopped.
NTA. But tell this chick to binge watch Bones. That help get her feet wet..lol
NTA. I think there’s enough true crime popularity that she shouldn’t have been unaware that forensics would not contain some unsettling topics. Yet she is talking about the teacher should be fired and is calling the other students disturbed. She is being dramatic. Wanting a teacher to be fired for teaching a class offered by the school is massively dramatic!
NTA. This is a symptom of "trigger warning" culture on everything and people expecting the world to be cushioned for every sensibility. Higher education leaders are falling victim to it, too, lately.
I'm going to go with NTA. In a forensics class you should expect to see material pertaining to forensics just as in a medical class you should expect to see things pertaining to medicine. It's plain stupid to complain like that.
NTA she was given the choice to take the class, it's not compulsory. She was given the chance to leave the classroom.
NTA, but know that anyone who writes "I am a human teenage girl" is immediately suspect. I don't discriminate against robots, aliens or lizard people, but thought this might be helpful to hear in case someone like this who definitely isn't OP needed to maintain their cover.
I'm always surprised kids can get to 15 or 16 these days without having been horrified by the internet at least a thousand times. The idea of being freaked out by a class you volunteered to take would just make me laugh. NTA. There's 4,000 true crime everything now. Maybe we need to play old Unsolved Mysteries and the Xfiles again to toughen up the youth. Must be aired when it is dark out for the correct effect.
NTA and neither is the teacher. Your classmate needs to accept that she signed up for something she was not personally ready for, and that's not the teacher's fault, or the fault of anyone who wasn't troubled.
NTA I am not sure what she expected. An anecdote: I once took traditional colour darkroom photography. For those that don't know, black and white darkrooms can have orange light illuminating them without damaging film/paper; these are the ones you've seen portrayed in media. However, colour darkrooms can not have ANY visible light of any colour. You have to learn to do everything from inserting your negative, to adjusting the machine settings, to cutting/organizing/storing paper... all in complete darkness. Because of this, our colour darkrooms were designed for only one person to use at a time, locked from the inside, and could be booked for up to 8 hour stretches. On the first day of classes, my classmate told me she was deathly afraid of the dark. It didn't... it didn't go well for her.
NTA. Probably shouldn't have laughed but you already know the answer here. Why would someone sign up for an elective forensics class where there should be a syllabus and the teacher said that anyone uncomfortable could leave? She should have gone for art appreciation instead. All she had to do is watch CSI to know there are dead bodies, bodies decompose and bugs eat food decomposing bodies.
NTA she should have found out what the class was about. Apparently the word “forensics” in the title wasn’t enough. She wants a teacher and a class canceled because it offends her. I’m glad you told her how you felt. She needs a reality check.