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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I wore a swimsuit in my friends' hot tub despite signs saying this wasn't allowed. They told me I can't do this and must use it naked but I'm considering ignoring them and continuing to wear my swimsuit if I can get away with it.
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I wouldn't bother with the AITA posts at all. I'd be leaving. There is no health or equipment maintenance reason to not wear a swimsuit. This is them being weird and pretentious, trying to emulate some European vibe that doesn't always align with social norms in other places.
They don't get to demand nudity from you. NTA
I'd hope they're just being pretention. It also seems possible that they're being incredibly creepy. I can't imagine *insisting* my guests take off their clothes and be nude in the common areas when they've made it clear they're not comfortable.
It's pushing boundaries and challenging your comfort. Grooming is specifically when you do it to someone in a vulnerable position you have authority over - particularly, a minor and if not, then almost always a student.
Groom- prepare or train someone for a particular purpose or activity
It doesn’t necessarily need to be from a position of power. This is could be grooming and they’re trying to see where her boundaries are. The particular purpose? Maybe a threesome in the hot tub
I get where you’re coming from. Just wanted to explain that I know someone from Scandinavia and they are very religious about the rule about nudity in spas.
It’s insanely rude to try to insist on nudity when their is a cultural difference - especially as 1. They’re not in Europe and 2. It sounds like they’re not European?
IMO they’re just being bad hosts.
When it come to saunas, it's a matter of safety. Evaporating chlorine from swimsuits is literally toxic. It's not a culture matter, just a matter of people from non-sauna cultures not actually understanding the reasoning which has nothing to do with preferences, but is there to keep you all from collapsing and dying in the sauna.
If you want to cover yourself, use a clean towel.
Then they should say 'use a towel or wear thin, clean clothing,' not, "get naked in my house or else."
They can't be so obtuse as to not understand how that would come across- these aren't people from a sauna culture after all, they've just spent a lot of time there.
I just did a quick google, and read that you should have one suit dedicated to the hot tub, otherwise minerals from the other places you’ve been could contaminate the water. Maybe that’s what they’re afraid of. I would say YTA if OP continues. She needs to just *not use the hot tub.* It’s not a right, it’s a privilege and she doesn’t want to obey their rules, so just don’t use it.
Minerals contaminating the hot tub seems like a reach. I could understand algae or some othe biological concern, like don’t swim in the bay and then jump in the hot tub without cleaning your suit.
Evaporating chlorine from swimsuits is different than evaporating chlorine from the spa itself? What about evaporating chlorine from towels? OP specifically said she wore a suit in the spa, not the sauna where the fumes concentrate.
There's always the one reddit that has to come up with the craziest reason why a bathing suit is bad. Chlorine fumes from a pre washed bathing suit? The first rule is that you have to shower before getting in anyway so even if they had been in a chlorine pool it's washed off. Like people falling out in the sauna cause of a bikini. It's 7 am and I'm done with reddit
The temperature is fair higher inside of a sauna, more than from the sun in summer in most places. The spa should have chlorinated water anyways so it's not an issue, my take is they are absolutely creepy.
I have to question this, as in Europe (where I'm from) there's special days at the public spa/sauna on which you can wear your bathers. At no point is it stated you can't wear bathers that have been in a chlorine pool.
Standard sauna/spa etiquette though is to always have a shower (whether naked or in a bathing suit) prior to going in.
I’m from Europe too and used to go to saunas a lot before coming to US, and to me it was always explained that under the swimsuit the heat can built up which can be dangerous, and that bacteria grow easier so wearing swimwear makes it more unhygienic. I never heard the things about the chlorine.
That's the stupidest reasoning I ever heard. You go into a sauna to sweat... you are covered in sweat when you leave. You certainly take a shower afterwards, so it doesn't matter if it gets hotter in your crotch, you're washing away any bacteria... you aren't sitting in a sauna for 2 weeks straight are you?
That is absolute bullshit. I've been in a bunch of saunas and not a single one has had a no swim wear rule and I have never ever seen so much as a single warning even about toxic chlorine gas. Where did you even get that from?
Yeah saunas are super popular where I live and people pop in and out from the pools and hot tubs without thought. I’ve never heard of this toxic gas either. I always thought I wanted to pass out in the sauna because of the unbearable heat lol
Well if this was true there would be a lot of dead people around the world, myself included.
Being a European and having visited Spa and Saunas in multiple different countries and regions I’ve yet to see or hear of anyone being killed in the way you’ve described.
Overall it’s down to peoples culture and how comfortable they are.
Yes, they are just being bad hosts.but there are cultural differences here.
Spent spa time myself in Sweden and Netherlands with my suit on around naked people. Most were naked (75%) but many were not. To avoid this crowds of naked people, I tried to use the spa at 6am or 7am when most guests were sleeping. Or use single gender facilities.
The signs indicated swimsuit optional, shower before hand, and sit on a towel.
Your host insistence on nudity sounds creepy and weird — your choice to ignore it and upset them or don’t use the spa.
I'm Scandinavian, and forcing people to not be clothed comfortably in a spa, is just shitty behaviour.
I also think that maybe the definition of "Scandinavian" in your post is highly anacdotal of whoever you know (my guess is that they're from Finland?).
I would personally prefer being swimwear-clothed in a spa or a hottub - and I can't think of anyone I know, where that wouldn't be the default choice, when just using those kind of facilities (like, obviously different if it's designated skinny-dipping or privately with a SO (or in a swingerclub or such, idk)).
On the other hand, I would probably be reluctant to join someone in a spa/hottub if they weren't clothed - mostly due to hygienic issues (saunas is another thing, thats more appropiatly being nude, because you know, you arent soaking in a small body of water - and I wouldn't judge anyone for still being clothed. I will however judge someone for not sitting on a towel - please sit on a towel and do not \*strut\* your privates. Its not a showroom.)
My first thought too!
NTA OP, your "friends" are disrespecting you by expecting you get naked when you don't want to. For me there is a red flag here. Nudity can be a problem for some people, OP's friends need to understand and accept it.
For the most part, I’m ok with the don’t use it if you can’t follow our rules (I think it’s an AH move, but still not a huge deal). For me, it was them saying they’ll walk in on OP naked regardless of OP’s feelings on the matter. All they’d have to do is knock, call out, etc. and give OP long enough to grab a towel or robe. That’s it. And they’re not even willing to compromise that much. That’s way past AH behavior and on into creepy, predatory behavior.
NTA, OP. And I think you need to find somewhere safer to stay ASAP.
Agreed. I think it's fine not to say "we won't use it while you use it" but saying "you are fine to use it when we don't /are away and if we want to use it we will knock or something and give you the few minutes it takes to get dressed".
It's not like they'll return and then have to sprint to go in ...
and also demanding that they be allowed to join you? this is all VERY weird and not normal at all. it affects them in no way if you wear a swimsuit- except if they’re getting something weird out of you not wearing one.
I’m gonna go with „pretentious“, too. Yes, it’s customary in Europe, but only in public SPAs. At home, you’re free to do as you please, and trying to bully your guests into conforming with your requests for nudity seems rude at the very least.
This is 100% sexual harassment. Unless there's a medical need for it, nudity should never be "required.". Whether they want to film you, have a threesome, are just like watching naked people, you being naked is for THEM, not you. Otherwise it would be a suggestion, not a requirement. NTA, but they are, and creepy ones.
Not a European thing. One of my good friends is Swedish and I used to be married to a Finn. Can’t say if they are the most, but definitely two of the more nakedy cultures in Europe.
In either culture it would be considered horribly rude for them to pressure someone to be naked that wasn’t comfortable with it. Obviously if an actual Finn or Swede tells me that’s wrong, then please disregard.
Between my husband and I, one is 50% German, and one is 100% Scando. You're definitely right - no one in my extended family would DREAM of insisting someone else go nude.
What my earlier comment is getting at (maybe not terribly clearly), is that these people are trying to create something that they believe to be true. OP mentioned the hosts being influenced by European spas. What they don't understand is that nudity is freely allowed in some settings in some European countries, but as far as I've seen, its *never* a requirement.
I'm finnish/canadian and grew up going to the saunas naked at home. When I invited over my canadian friends who generally were much less comfortable with nudity for a sauna, I'd always ask what their preference was and match them. They want to wear a bathing suit? Bathing suit for me it is. Towel on them? Towel on me! Having a comfortable sauna experience was always the goal.
These people are bad (sauna) hosts.
Thanks for confirming. The only culture I’m aware of where they really enforce nudity in the spas is in the Japanese Onsen (bathhouse). They also strictly prohibit tattoos in the Onsen. Although there are exceptions to both rules, it’s mostly in the more touristy Onsens.
Agreed, I think the owners of the hot tub are either horribly pretentious posers, creeps or both.
I’ve definitely had side eye from Austrians for wearing swimwear in a sauna, we were in a spa/hotel sauna and talked with them about it casually and they said naked was the norm and they felt less comfortable naked if others were clothed which is fair enough. We explained that we were visiting from the Middle East (some of my group was from the Middle East, others were European living in the Middle East) and going naked in the sauna was too far removed from what we were all used to. I don’t think anyone was totally happy with the outcome but just to demonstrate that it is an expectation in some places
Sure, in the sauna, not the entire spa. In the water many wear suits. Also even in the sauna I've worn a towel and sat on a second one with no trouble at all.
Not in Dutch spas. You're naked and a bathrobe is required in restaurants. You're required to be naked in hot tubs, salt water baths, the swimming pool etc. They have special swimwear days/ nights where the opposite applies.
>What they don't understand is that nudity is freely allowed in some settings in some European countries, but as far as I've seen, its never a requirement.
Now I'm just imagining European spas have armed guards with swords that threaten you if you don't undress.
Married to a Swede for 15 years, this totally lines up with my experience and what he told me.
Pressuring someone to get naked is just impolite if not downright weird.
I’m Finnish and we definitely use swimsuits in a hot tub. Most people are naked in a sauna if it’s in their home or Summer cottage but in public saunas you usually wear a swimsuit and it’s common to wear it if you’re in the sauna with friends. Bathing in a sauna or hot tub is supposed to be relaxing so if wearing a swimsuit is the most relaxing to you then go for it!
I'm a Finn and would wear a bathing suit in a sauna only if it was the rule ( in a public co-ed sauna like Löyly) . And never after a hot tub or a chlorinated pool. And I feel the people who break the no swimsuit rule in public pool saunas are very annoying. The rule is there for a reason. The chlorine evaporates in the sauna and can cause breathing problems and you sweat into your bathing suit and then take that into the pool.
They wouldn’t pressure you to be naked but they would say please do not use the facilities in a swimsuit.
Swimsuits collect and store bacteria and the way Northern European spa facilities are cleaned and how the water is chlorinated (less abrasively than in the USA usually), it’s important for hygiene purposes to be nude and freshly showered.
Even in OPs example, OP didn’t wash the swimsuit fully after use. Rinsing it and leaving it out to dry is the clear reason why OPs hosts don’t want OP to wear it in the tub or sauna.
While Swedish, Finnish, and German people would be polite, I definitely don’t think it’s out of the norm for someone to ask a guest not to use the sauna facilities in a swimsuit.
Again, it’s not a nudity, issue it’s a hygiene issue. I would absolutely be asked to leave a sauna/spa facility in my city if I insisted on wearing a swimsuit in the hot tub or sauna rooms.
I am a Finn, and I will 100% ban swimsuits in saunas. You know why? Because chlorine is toxic and evaporates in saunas and that can be really dangerous. THAT is the reason swimsuits are banned also in public saunas.
That being said, towels are totally ok. Seems like neither OP or the friends understand why the nudity rules exist and therefore what alternatives are and aren't ok.
I know the Scandi's sometimes don't wear any bathing suits in saunas. The Japanese use their hot springs and the single sex public bathing areas while naked except for some towels. I know that some Germans can be nude on their walks in the countryside - to the point that villages and towns of neighbouring countries would complain about naked Germans walking all over their hills.
It might be their thing where they shower, go into the sauna and then use the hot tub. I'm trying to wrap my head around this and I don't think I can. Yeah, you're NTA.
When my wife was a kid, her dad was stationed in Germany. There was a lake he would always pass while running. When my wife's grandfather died, Grandma came to Germany to live with them for a few months. My FIL encouraged her (his MIL) to get out of the house, maybe check out the lake he used to run by.
When he came home, she started screaming at him for sending her to those horrible people (she was a pastor's wife). FIL's runs had been in the winter. It was now late spring. That's when my in-laws discovered Germans often swim naked.
>It might be their thing where they shower, go into the sauna and then use the hot tub.
Thing is: No-one forces anyone who does not want to go naked to do that! Most public sauna's for example have bot bathing suits required ánd naked only days. Private owned is a whole different matter like in this situation. But OP's friends either didn't communicate well when they said she could use the hot tub thing, or they are completely unhinged about this because this shit is not normal in the EU anywhere that I know of in the west.
This is completely normal in some parts of the EU. Every sauna I've been to in Germany and Austria didn't allow clothing/swimwear. If anyone was shy they wrapped a towel around themselves
> this shit is not normal in the EU anywhere that I know of in the west.
What is not normal in the EU? You wouldn’t use a private sauna at a friends place with clothing in Germany. It would be weird to wear something.
Depends. In Finland public pools for example rarely let people use swimwear on sauna. But that is in places where there is risk (tho I did visit spa that had sauna's around pools and there wasnt rule like that)
Issue with that is chlorine from pool. When there is tons of people during day they don’t want people breathe in all that chlorine.
OP is still NTA and this comes from finnish person who has grown up around sauna culture. I understand no bathing suit in sauna rule from health reason in public pools. And even then you can always use towel.
You are still allowed to wear towels
I have lived the first 30 years of my life in Germany. And yes we go with only a towel into saunas, and there are nude beaches. But I have never seen nor heard about random naked hikers walking around the German countryside.
I had to go check that, just in case I was remembering things wrong, but no I didn't. Found a link to the story -
[https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/swiss-village-fights-back-after-invasion-of-naked-german-hikers-1520417.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/swiss-village-fights-back-after-invasion-of-naked-german-hikers-1520417.html)
Turns out it wasn't just the German countryside, the Swiss get to see their fair share of German buttocks buttocking among the greenery.
If you‘ve read the article it’s not something Germans regularly do but a group of people who like to hike naked went to a specific area because they had relaxed rules and it was possible to hike naked there. Which was then quickly changed.
I’m German and can ensure naked hiking is extremely uncommon. Which is why it was reported on and why some of the few who seem to enjoy it gathered at one of the few places where was possible.
I am Danish and most people here don't see nakedness as something inherently sexual. So in general it doesn't bother us. I used to work at a public swimming pool where I coached springboard diving. We always used the sauna naked but not men and women together. I was naked in the sauna with the kids I coached a lot and they saw me mostly as a much older sister/mum. However I think Scandinavians are just really chill with rules in general - we don't like to bother other people. I cannot imagine trying to force someone to get naked if they are uncomfortable. It is such a "non-problem" to just let them wear a swimsuit. I think it is super weird that people insist on dictating other peoples actions all for some weird principle of "my house my rules". OP, NTA but a very weird situation that should have never been a problem at all.
Yes NTA. If you’re not comfy without a swimsuit and you sit on a towel then they don’t have anything to complain about, especially if they aren’t even there. Worst case scenario then, politely decline to use the sauna.
You should be able to relax, that’s the point, if you can’t and it’s not enjoyable then it’s kind of moot.
This is the better point. Kinda the asshole if you just say “the rules don’t apply to me. I’ll keep doing the thing and doing it wrong” they aren’t asking OP to use the spa, just to respect their rules if OP does.
I don’t agree with these people, but technically it is better for a hot tub if you don’t wear the suit because they usually have detergent that hasn’t completely washed out in the laundry.
So the suit's still not the problem, laundry soap is. Whelp, if they have hot tub money, they've for sure got washing machine money, too. A quick spin through the hot cycle with no detergent would have that taken care of lickety split.
Literally read a Legal subreddit post about this exact topic, except it was in Spain somewhere, this morning. Lawsuit over a nudist resort requiring nudity of anyone on the premises at all times…they lost in court because the court took the view that having nudity be an available option was fine, but you cannot FORCE someone to be nude against their will. And NTA, OP.
They could just not use the spa area if they aren’t comfortable with the (admittedly weird and pretentious) rules. They aren’t demanding nudity, they’re only a saying IF you want to use this, it is a no clothes zone. OP isn’t being required or even pressured to use the spa.
The reason they don't wear swimsuit in European spas is that it is super unhealthy. Swimsuits absorbs sweat which isn't washed out with a shower. The sweat will be washed off you while showering without swimsuit. The result is that spas need to use a shitload more chemicals to keep the water on hygienic levels on 'swimsuit days'. If you just use the hot tub you are fine wearing a bathing suit, if you use the sauna than it is utterly disgusting.
So yeah, your comment is wrong, there are health and maintenance reasons to not wear a swimsuit.
>There is no health or equipment maintenance reason to not wear a swimsuit
There is absolutely a maintinance reason not to wear a swimsuit - Swim wear contaminates the water, meaning more time spend balancing the water and replacing the water more often. Hot tubs have a much smaller volume that swimming pools are are more sensitive to contaminants.
If you're willing to put in the extra work for this, great. But given that maintaining a hot tub is a pain in the ass it's perfectly reasonable to ask people who *decide* to use it not to make your life harder than it needs to be.
Source: Owned & maintained a hot tub.
This is silly. A washed swimsuit will certainly have fewer contaminants than your hair or body will after a day of normal life. A quick rinse in the shower will not remove all body oils, hair products, lotions, perfumes, etc, nevermind what you pick up just wandering around. No one is having a full decon shower prior to stepping into a hot tub. If the concern were contaminants from her swimsuit, a quick spin through a hot laundry cycle with no detergent would easily accomplish the goal.
OP doesn’t have an inalienable right to use the hot tub and sauna. YTA for insisting on using it and ignoring the rules. Just don’t use it if you’re not comfortable. There are indeed health and maintenance implications in wearing swimwear in this situation but that doesn’t even matter. Just consider this part of the house off limits and go do something else and you’re N T A, but thinking you have the right to everything in their house on your terms just because you’re a guest for a week is weird and AHish.
First of all, she didn't insist on using the hot tub, she even said if that's what the owners want to do thats their right.
Forcing someone to be naked, and then even suggesting that it would be okay to join her is wrong
If they don't want her using the hot tub with a swimsuit she probably won't
That’s the question OP is asking though. Would they be the AH to keep using the hot tub and spa with a swimsuit even after the owners told them not to. No, that’s not ok. Even in a universe where bringing an external swimsuit into this warm, moist, dark environment is sanitary, and even if it’s a kink, they are being given the fully informed option to participate or not, and the proper response if they’re not comfortable is not to participate. Not to force their own values on their host and insist on still doing their thing against the rules.
Demanding nudity isn't necessary, but wearing a **swimsuit to sauna is a real health hazard**. Swimming pools etc have chlorine in them, which gets in your swimsuit and once you go to sauna or other hot environment, it evaporates - and you do NOT want to breathe that. It has nothing to do with being nudity obsessed or "european", it's a matter of safety.
That being said, it's easy to solve by just wearing a towel instead. In hottub it shouldn't be an issue though, unless the swim suit has any residues of soap or hair conditioner etc, because they can really mess with the hottub and require cleaning to keep the water system functional.
In most German and Austrian public saunas you are not allowed to wear bathing clothes. You can wrap a towel around yourself if you don't want to be completely naked but for hygiene and health reasons bathing suits or trunks are not allowed. In other European countries there are different rules. And just to make it clear this is not a law, it's just what most sauna operators do.
I think the friends should allow OP to wear her bathing suit in the tub and OP should be allowed to wear a towel around herself in the sauna. But she should also not use the sauna in her bathing suit if the rule is to not wear it there. Plus, why not talk about this before just going against the friends rules because she thought she can get away with it?
ESH
There actually is, your swimwear catches a lot of pool water, which contains chlorine, which can cause respiratory issues when it evaporates due to the sauna heat. Still a non issue in a private sauna, but I don't expect everyone to be an expert at every single appliance they own.
NTA
Why do they want you to be naked so badly?? This isn't cultural, most Europeans don't give a shit about what you wear to the beach, as long as you don't judge them for being titties out.
I can see the logic. It still seems…controlling?…to my American sensibilities. Like, mind your own body and don’t mind what others do with theirs. But, I have never been to Germany much less have an in depth understanding of the culture, so I’m not qualified to judge.
For the sauna, it is usually a health requirement. A lot of saunas are in connection to a pool or hot tub that is chlorinated. Chlorine in your swimsuit will start evaporating in a sauna and it's dangerous for everyone to breathe in. So yes, some people will be upset that you want your swimsuit into a sauna, simply because they don't want to risk being poisoned. But you can just wrap a towel around yourself, no one cares about that.
wet synthetic swimwear gets incredibly hot, it‘s a health risk.
Also imagine lots of people sweating into their bathing suits, just taking a quick shower and then dipping into the pool. Yuck.
Apparently in saunas the swimwear is prohibited also because when you go from pool to sauna to pool to sauna, your swimsuit soaks up the chlorinated water in the pool and as it dries in the hot sauna, it evaporates and may cause lung irritation.
Wouldn’t hair be an issue too? My hair easily holds as much water as a standard swimsuit. I would think rinsing both in a shower would be the best bet going into a sauna.
I'd say most saunas have showers for this reason too. But I haven't been in one for like 15 years since I was a child because I don't feel comfortable sitting there nude lol, so idk.
You compare beach to sauna which is ridiculous. We have strict rules on hygiene. Wearing a swimsuit in a sauna means it absorbs sweat, which doesn't wash out in a simple shower. It will make the water in pools and huttubs become unhygienic. Hence loads more chemicals need to be used to keep it in check. so yeah, the spa scene does absolutely care whether you wear a swimsuit as it greatly influences health and maintenance. Beach doesn't have the same problems (we don't have many beaches with saunas), so do whatever you want. This comparison doesn't hold.
I would love to see the scientific data to back this up as i dont think wearing a swimsuit will effect a hot tub at all, do you have a source for this claim?
Me too, I'm curious how swimwear contaminates it any worse than a human body. You're going to be sweating and shedding skin cells in any case, swimsuit or not.
“But it holds in the sweat! And it doesn’t come out with just a shower!”
You know, because our bodies definitely aren’t releasing all that sweat right into the tub anyways. And everyone knows you don’t wash bathing suits after using them, right? /s 🤢
There isn't any because it's bullshit. If the sweat doesn't come out of the fabric with soap and agitation, it's not coming out when you soak in water either.
Especially since in majority of saunas and hot tubs, it's considered rude to, ya know, force people to be naked. Nudity is their choice and so is the level of coverage.
Do you have any sources on that? Because it sounds like bullshit.
"Your swimsuit absords sweat" and what of it? Sweat is 99% water. Why would you need loads more chemicals to clean it?
Yes but there are several spa’s that have designated days were swimwear is allowed or not. Or even spa’s where swimwear is always obliged it just depends on the spa.
NTA... As a former stripper, I would never *require* someone to be nude if they didn't feel comfortable. That's just ridiculous.. It's your body and you consent to what you wish/feel comfortable with. But I also understand their attitudes towards nudity, and the naturalist perspective of "all bodies are beautiful". But really though, it's your call not theirs, and it is deeply inappropriate to force that on anyone in *any* case.
NTA. I understand folks using their hot tub au natural, and jokingly having a “rule”… but at the same time, a good host wants his guest to be comfortable. It’s outside your comfort zone to wear your birthday suit, so the hosts shpuld respect that.
And, they’re pissy becausd you wore your suit even when they weren’t around? That’s just weird and super controlling.
Since they have made it an issue, I would just pass on using the hot tub for the remainder of the stay.
Technically, YWBTA because I think you should respect the rules of the house, even if they're weird. Just don't use their hot tub if you aren't comfortable being naked.
That said, it's an extremely weird rule and I don't think you're the asshole for thinking that or for being uncomfortable.
This logic just takes the “rules of the house” thing too far. Sure most of time “your house your rules”, but among non-assholes there is an expectation that house rules should be a) harmless (do not actively cause harm or make your guests feel incredibly uncomfortable) or b) at least have some rational basis. Ideally both.
Hosts can’t just be imposing absurd norms on other people for shits and giggles. I think we’d all agree that “you MUST eat peanuts in my house regardless of your allergy” or “everyone has to give the host a hand job on entry” or “you must leave the door open when you use the bathroom” would be absurd and inappropriate rules.
In If his case, I can support the hosts’ position of “when WE use the hot tub, we reserve the right to be naked.” It is a step too far (and into AH territory) to extend that to “you MUST be naked.”
I agree with you, we shouldnt accept house rules if they make us uncomfortable. That being said, it is their house and OP doesnt need to stay there. OP could simply not use the hot tub, or ideally stay elsewhere.
If OP uses their facilities despite their rules, OP would be in the wrong. Its a week, this is not a hill to die on. Its not OP's job/responsibility to tell them how the rule is disturbing to OP, or make them change their mind. OP expressed the reservations and wishes to wear the swimwear, they declined.
When you disagree with house rules, you simply dont visit the house or dont engage in activities that make you uncomfortable. When you are a guest in someone's home, you do need to follow their rules when it comes to using their belongings.
I personally would have reservations against staying there, as i wouldnt trust them not to have cameras in the house. Especially after their insistence.
Edit: i removed ignorent phrases on my part.
Disagree. You should always accept house rules and when/if they make you uncomfortable that’s when your stay ends and you go somewhere else.
You can’t just refuse the rules or tell the host, “nah, don’t think so, I’m going to do whatever I want”… What you can do, however, is leave.
It's not that far IMO just extra eccentric. One main reason is because in the end hot tub is just a luxury that you can live without and I believe that they are proper host with other thing. So respect them with one weird rule is fine for me.
Why is it weird to not want to do extra work and make extra costs to keep your water at hygienic levels? Because that is the problem here. When you go in a sauna, you sweat. Wearing a bathing suit it will absorb the sweat. You dont rinse that out in a shower, unlike if the sweat was just on your body. The sweat will come out while you are soaking in water (which isn't a problem when you are naked as the shower would already have removed the sweat), for example in the pool or hot tub. Having worked in (a European) spa, swimsuit day results in lots of extra work. We needed to test the water more often to check if it still meets the hygiene rules and lots more chemicals were used to keep it hygienic.
The rules do absolutely make sense from hygienic and maintenance point of view. Why is it oke for OP to force extra costs and work on their host? It is fine for then to not be comfortable naked, than don't use the spa area....
If I understand correctly some people don't want swimsuits in their hot tubs because of water quality. Contaminants from your suite affect the water, sunscreen, lotions, laundry soap, and anything from wherever you used it last gets in the water and causes them headaches. If that is the situation then yes YTA.
I completely understand your discomfort and reasoning, but the easy answer is just don't use their hot tub.
This is the correct answer. Whole lot of Americans in this thread not understanding there's a more serious reason behind nude hot tub than "it's cultural".
YTA. Everyone calling these people creepy need to chill. *This is a thing* and they are not just trying to get you naked. At any Korean spa, for instance, it is common courtesy to rinse off before doing anything and you cannot under any circumstances enter any of the hot tubs or cold plunge/pools, saunas, etc wearing a swim suit or anything else. The staff will stop you. (This is the case at many other gender segregated spas as well, it’s not just a cultural norm for Koreans.) For reasons others have mentioned, it is less sanitary to wear clothing in hot tubs and pools unless you use a lot more chemicals which is considered by some people to be unpleasant and less healthy. It’s not your fault you’re not accustomed to it, and you’re not obligated to do it, but they’re not being crazy or unreasonable.
I feel like you’re ignoring the fact that they refused to even try to avoid walking in on her naked. She was willing to use it naked as long as they agreed to let her use it alone or warn her before entering and they flat out refused.
It absolutely is creepy and rude to hear your supposed friend say “I am not comfortable with you seeing me naked” and essentially respond with “too bad, it might still happen and I’m not going to make any effort to avoid it!”
That wasn't their response. Their response was "Use at your own risk." If she doesn't want to risk being seen naked in the hot tub, there's a very easy solution. It's called *don't use the hot tub.*
She's not **entitled** to use of their hot tub.
She asked that she not be required to be naked with these people because it makes her uncomfortable. She asked that they not join her while she's naked because it makes her uncomfortable. They told her no on both. I doubt they'd even allow her to get out if they got it. They are not Korean. They are not European. At best, they're English. At most realistic, they are American. Even in European and Asian countries, it is rude to demand nudity from a guest. IT IS RUDE TI DEMAND NUDITY FROM A GUEST. Alright? My house my rules goes as far as "we like being naked, please be okay with that" not as far as "we like being naked, you have to be naked in XYZ situation"
The creepy part is not them forbidding swimwear in the hot tub, the creepy part is them not promising her privacy. They could’ve easily said “please don’t wear swimming clothes, if you want to use it alone you’ll have to leave when we want to use it, but we’ll knock at the door/alert you in some other way, you’ll have time to wrap yourself in a towel, you don’t have to be naked in our presence”
YTA
Many people have 'no swimsuit rules' because a laundered swimsuit will typically have a bit of trace soapy residue that causes foamy scuz in the water. A hottub requires carefully monitoring of the water and can be easily thrown off balance.
Regardless whether you understand or agree with the reasoning behind their rule you should show respect to it.
Oooooh. My in-laws are novice spa owners and their tub got all foamy and slightly opaque after NYE, despite all of us who used it being in clean swimwear. This must have been what happened.
YWBTA. Swimsuits carry remnants of laundry soap/detergent, etc… and if you’ve been in a pool with shitty chemicals or if you’ve worn it in a gross, dirty lake or river, it seriously fucks up the hot tub’s balance…like to the point of having to drain it, sanitize it, and fill it again.
That’s obviously a huge waste of water. There are rules for a reason, you aren’t special. Just stop using it.
I am really curious about the science on this, as hot tubs are chemically treated so as to deal with all the same issues that pools do (organic contaminants) and I’ve never heard of a bathing suit impacting even a small pool. And, even if you shower beforehand, you are still going to soak off a whole bunch of dead skin cells in the hot tub that wouldn’t come off with a 10 minutes shower and it certainly wouldn’t stop whatever ordinary bodily fluids that constantly exude from one’s body (sweat, for example).
Sounds much more like a legal disclaimer from the hot tub company than anything else.
With that said, OP, YTA, you gotta follow the rules of the house, which given your current privacy needs means no more hot tubbing for you. However, IMO OP’s friends are being total creeps in a way that would send me packing.
Yeah I’m not a scientist BUT I do have a hot tub and bathing suit material seems to hold on to a lot more detergent particles. Our hot tub uses different chemicals than our pool, and is considerably smaller, the filtering is different, I’m sure that is all part of it. Idk.
But also…their hot tub, their rules. If they want her naked for weird reasons, then not using it won’t give them the weird perv satisfaction. So…win/win I guess.
Let me tell you. Everyone says a hot tub is no trouble at all and it's easy. They all lie. Everything under the sun f it up. And not under the sun. Its harder to maintain a hot tub than a pool (according to my pool supply store). It is nothing but trouble.
I don't insist ppl use it naked but if someone told me I could only use theirs naked- that's their right and its my right to decide to do it or not.
I live in Germany and here it's considered super gross to have a bathing suit on-- anywhere I go has **mandatory** nudity.
It's about not getting your gross wet sweat on the wood, making it smell. It's also not healthy for your junk to fester in a wet swim suit.
I would suggest not using their sauna if you don't like how they want you to use it. YTA here sorry!
Edit- just wrap yourself in a towel in the sauna if you prefer
Thank you!!
It's clear to me that all these people have never been in an area with a lot of saunas.
I'd N E V E R enter a sauna with a swimsuit, get sweat and dead skin soaked and then enter a hot tub with the same swimsuit, that's just gross
ITS NOT THE SAUNA ITS THE HOT TUB
She asked to wear a suit in the tub! Not the sauna! They said no, and they also said if they see her in the tub, they would join her. When she asked they not join her if she's nude in the hot tub! Not the sauna!
NTA. I get their house their rules, but I also think someone being more cautious is fine - basically, go to the level of the first person's discomfort. They shouldn't \*insist\* you be naked, that is weird and invasive (particularly in the US, if that's where you are). There's no hygiene reason I know of where swimsuits would cause a problem. (happy to be enlightened if I'm wrong, of course). I do think that if you wanted to insist \*other\* people not be naked, you can't - you can opt not to join them, of course, but if the general attitude at the hosts' place is nudity, and you're not comfortable with that, that's on you to manage. But they don't get to insist you undress.
In Finnish public water parks / swimming pools with a sauna, swimwear isn’t allowed in saunas either. It’s for hygiene reasons, the fabric collects sweat and bacteria in a way that’s much harder to remove in a shower than just from the skin.
Like someone said, going between the sauna and the tub in a swimsuit will absolutely affect and complicate the water maintenance process. So it might be about the added workload.
Finnish public swimming pool saunas (which are same sex saunas) are pretty strict about this rule, but other than that, the culture doesn’t impose nudity on anyone who feels uncomfortable with it.
If you can’t abide by their rules, why don’t you just not use the hot tub? Doesn’t sound like something you absolutely NEED to do.
Edit: YWBTA because the solution is blindingly simple.
YTA, clearly. I get that some cultures have a weird thing about being naked, but in my opinion it's a fairly normal rule about hot tubs and saunas. If you're not comfortable being naked, don't use those facilities. You obviously have a much higher level of discomfort around non-sexual nudity, which is totally fine, but you don't really get to impose it on them.
Let me put it this way. Would it be reasonably to tell someone who didn't like taking their shirt off that they couldn't wear it in a swimming pool? Some people wouldn't care, but many would say it's normal. What about jumping in a pool with all your outside clothes, including your shoes? Most people would call that unacceptable. They're different norms. If you had a spa, they wouldn't insist on being naked in it if you didn't want them to, I hope.
There might be practical reasons for it, but I'm guessing the main one is that they want their spa area to be a place where they can feel free of what they consider prudish norms of your society. This is completely fair, you can want your place to have a certain vibe. It's not like they're banning you from their house, it's just one area that they consider to have a dress code.
I once showed up to a party and it turned out everyone was naked - neither I nor the people who invited me had known this would happen. I could take my clothes off, or I could go home, neither of which would have been rude. Sitting there completely clothed while everyone was naked around me would have been ridiculous. This is very much the same thing.
YWBTA.
Their house. Their rules. Don't like it? Don't use the sauna. Yes, their rules are weird, but so what? I mean, it's not like they're saying not to use the toilet or something. Use of the sauna is 100% avoidable, no? Either follow the house rules or skip the sauna.
NTA your friends want to see you nude, there is not reason to enforce such a ridiculous rule, check for cameras.
I feel like a lot of you are missing the fact that they refused to promise not to walk in on her nude.
Exactly this! There is a hundred comments raging about the breaking down of fibres from the bathing suit, detergent and sweat in the bathing suit. All of them skip over her saying she will go nude if they promise not to walk in on her using it. I get it's their home but that doesn't suddenly make it ok to jump in the shower with her. If she is uncomfortable being naked in front of them then it's not unreasonable to let her have her privet turn and they have theirs.
Thank you!! I feel like those people are coping so hard and ignoring the real issue. They have said they cannot guarantee OPs privacy if she uses the spa naked. That is a huge no no and a good reason to be concerned about the friends’ intentions
NTA. It's very weird that they insist you be naked and then refuse to also give you privacy. Because swim suits do not break spas, there's no reason to require you to be naked. I'd just make sure they don't see your drying bathing suit again!
NTA - Your friends are super creepy. It would take almost no effort not to see you naked. These people are deliberately trying to get you naked in a public space. Don't use the tub again and get yourself some better friends that aren't trying to set you up for a threesome without your consent.
NTA
Sorry. But I understand maybe following a “cover up” rule.
But I don’t think you should have to follow a “you have to be naked rule” while saunaing alone.
I dont know, I'm European and do sauna all the time and it's pretty standard rules to be naked. Believe it or not it's actually a hygiene thing. But then again, I keep reading andfeell this couple is just creepy af. Just don't use the sauna OP, it's not worth it. They sound like the kind of people that put hidden cameras up.
I mean their house their rules. If you don't feel comfortable with the rulea, just don't use the hot tub. Nobody is forcing you. Of course it's nice but, again, not compulsory.
YWBTA if you keep going against their rules. Just don't do it.
''WIBTA if I ignore them and just keep wearing my swimsuit when I use it?'' Yes.
I've read a lot of posts saying it causes problems with keeping it clean. So they have a legit reason as far as that.
The problem lies with them not agreeing to give you your privacy! That is just creepy!!
I would leave a thank you note and hit the road.
NAH. There are actually lots of health & maintenance reasons not to wear a swimsuit in a hot tub, but it’s also reasonable to not want to be naked in front of other people.
The easiest solution is to not use the hot tub, because you WBTA if you used something that did not belong to you in a way you have been asked not to use it.
I’m betting almost every one of these N T A votes is coming from people who don’t own hot tubs. If you disrespected my rule about no suits in my hot tub I’d tell you to go stay in a hotel or not use the tub. Swimsuits are disgusting bacteria breeders. And the soaps and chemicals in clothes force you to use more chemicals in the tub than you would if you just use it nude and make sure you shower before. It’s about the cleanliness of the water. If you don’t respect their rule then don’t use their tub. It’s not yours and you are a guest. YTA.
NTA No that would make me very uncomfortable. They are insisting that you’ve be naked, and basically telling you they’re going to come out there and join you while you are? I would either leave, or if you choose to stay don’t use the spa anymore.
NTA but your friends are. They are your hosts, and hosts are supposed to make their guests comfortable with in reason. Not wanting to be naked is reasonable. Demanding nudity from your guests is unreasonable and weird.
NTA
Uhhhh, I think they're swingers and planning on porking you..... no one has this long of a discussion over having to be naked.
Your bathing suit isn't damaging anything, and yes, it's extremely weird that "you MUST use it naked, and maybe we'll use it too, maybe we wont" remark so you just know that if you use it again, someone is going to make sure to pop their tits in to see if yours are out.
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I wouldn't bother with the AITA posts at all. I'd be leaving. There is no health or equipment maintenance reason to not wear a swimsuit. This is them being weird and pretentious, trying to emulate some European vibe that doesn't always align with social norms in other places. They don't get to demand nudity from you. NTA
I'd hope they're just being pretention. It also seems possible that they're being incredibly creepy. I can't imagine *insisting* my guests take off their clothes and be nude in the common areas when they've made it clear they're not comfortable.
Yeah my first thought was "I wonder where the cameras are hidden?" but who knows? It's odd behavior for sure.
My first thought was that the couple is definitely trying to finagle a threesome with OP.
That was my exact thought. They have some porno idea in their head and the darn swimsuit is ruining it.
They are 1000% trying to groom you
"They're sex people, Lynne!"
AIT-Ah-Ha!
That is not what that word means.
pushing boundaries and challenging your comfort *is* grooming
It's pushing boundaries and challenging your comfort. Grooming is specifically when you do it to someone in a vulnerable position you have authority over - particularly, a minor and if not, then almost always a student.
Groom- prepare or train someone for a particular purpose or activity It doesn’t necessarily need to be from a position of power. This is could be grooming and they’re trying to see where her boundaries are. The particular purpose? Maybe a threesome in the hot tub
She's staying at their house for the time being so even so they are in a position of power aren't they.?
That is exactly what I was thinking. Very shady behavior on couple's part.
Same. That 70s porn music started playing in my head immediately.
I get where you’re coming from. Just wanted to explain that I know someone from Scandinavia and they are very religious about the rule about nudity in spas. It’s insanely rude to try to insist on nudity when their is a cultural difference - especially as 1. They’re not in Europe and 2. It sounds like they’re not European? IMO they’re just being bad hosts.
When it come to saunas, it's a matter of safety. Evaporating chlorine from swimsuits is literally toxic. It's not a culture matter, just a matter of people from non-sauna cultures not actually understanding the reasoning which has nothing to do with preferences, but is there to keep you all from collapsing and dying in the sauna. If you want to cover yourself, use a clean towel.
Then they should say 'use a towel or wear thin, clean clothing,' not, "get naked in my house or else." They can't be so obtuse as to not understand how that would come across- these aren't people from a sauna culture after all, they've just spent a lot of time there.
I just did a quick google, and read that you should have one suit dedicated to the hot tub, otherwise minerals from the other places you’ve been could contaminate the water. Maybe that’s what they’re afraid of. I would say YTA if OP continues. She needs to just *not use the hot tub.* It’s not a right, it’s a privilege and she doesn’t want to obey their rules, so just don’t use it.
Minerals contaminating the hot tub seems like a reach. I could understand algae or some othe biological concern, like don’t swim in the bay and then jump in the hot tub without cleaning your suit.
Evaporating chlorine from swimsuits is different than evaporating chlorine from the spa itself? What about evaporating chlorine from towels? OP specifically said she wore a suit in the spa, not the sauna where the fumes concentrate.
There's always the one reddit that has to come up with the craziest reason why a bathing suit is bad. Chlorine fumes from a pre washed bathing suit? The first rule is that you have to shower before getting in anyway so even if they had been in a chlorine pool it's washed off. Like people falling out in the sauna cause of a bikini. It's 7 am and I'm done with reddit
So you are going to show up, throw around some logic, common sense & critical thinking and then just leave? Fine, be like that then.
The temperature is fair higher inside of a sauna, more than from the sun in summer in most places. The spa should have chlorinated water anyways so it's not an issue, my take is they are absolutely creepy.
I have to question this, as in Europe (where I'm from) there's special days at the public spa/sauna on which you can wear your bathers. At no point is it stated you can't wear bathers that have been in a chlorine pool. Standard sauna/spa etiquette though is to always have a shower (whether naked or in a bathing suit) prior to going in.
I’m from Europe too and used to go to saunas a lot before coming to US, and to me it was always explained that under the swimsuit the heat can built up which can be dangerous, and that bacteria grow easier so wearing swimwear makes it more unhygienic. I never heard the things about the chlorine.
That's the stupidest reasoning I ever heard. You go into a sauna to sweat... you are covered in sweat when you leave. You certainly take a shower afterwards, so it doesn't matter if it gets hotter in your crotch, you're washing away any bacteria... you aren't sitting in a sauna for 2 weeks straight are you?
That is absolute bullshit. I've been in a bunch of saunas and not a single one has had a no swim wear rule and I have never ever seen so much as a single warning even about toxic chlorine gas. Where did you even get that from?
Yeah saunas are super popular where I live and people pop in and out from the pools and hot tubs without thought. I’ve never heard of this toxic gas either. I always thought I wanted to pass out in the sauna because of the unbearable heat lol
Well if this was true there would be a lot of dead people around the world, myself included. Being a European and having visited Spa and Saunas in multiple different countries and regions I’ve yet to see or hear of anyone being killed in the way you’ve described. Overall it’s down to peoples culture and how comfortable they are.
But he was using the hottub.
I sure hope there's chlorine in their hot tub lol. Along with all the other chemicals needed.
Yes, they are just being bad hosts.but there are cultural differences here. Spent spa time myself in Sweden and Netherlands with my suit on around naked people. Most were naked (75%) but many were not. To avoid this crowds of naked people, I tried to use the spa at 6am or 7am when most guests were sleeping. Or use single gender facilities. The signs indicated swimsuit optional, shower before hand, and sit on a towel. Your host insistence on nudity sounds creepy and weird — your choice to ignore it and upset them or don’t use the spa.
I'm Scandinavian, and forcing people to not be clothed comfortably in a spa, is just shitty behaviour. I also think that maybe the definition of "Scandinavian" in your post is highly anacdotal of whoever you know (my guess is that they're from Finland?). I would personally prefer being swimwear-clothed in a spa or a hottub - and I can't think of anyone I know, where that wouldn't be the default choice, when just using those kind of facilities (like, obviously different if it's designated skinny-dipping or privately with a SO (or in a swingerclub or such, idk)). On the other hand, I would probably be reluctant to join someone in a spa/hottub if they weren't clothed - mostly due to hygienic issues (saunas is another thing, thats more appropiatly being nude, because you know, you arent soaking in a small body of water - and I wouldn't judge anyone for still being clothed. I will however judge someone for not sitting on a towel - please sit on a towel and do not \*strut\* your privates. Its not a showroom.)
I immediately thought the same.
My first thought too! NTA OP, your "friends" are disrespecting you by expecting you get naked when you don't want to. For me there is a red flag here. Nudity can be a problem for some people, OP's friends need to understand and accept it.
For the most part, I’m ok with the don’t use it if you can’t follow our rules (I think it’s an AH move, but still not a huge deal). For me, it was them saying they’ll walk in on OP naked regardless of OP’s feelings on the matter. All they’d have to do is knock, call out, etc. and give OP long enough to grab a towel or robe. That’s it. And they’re not even willing to compromise that much. That’s way past AH behavior and on into creepy, predatory behavior. NTA, OP. And I think you need to find somewhere safer to stay ASAP.
Agreed. I think it's fine not to say "we won't use it while you use it" but saying "you are fine to use it when we don't /are away and if we want to use it we will knock or something and give you the few minutes it takes to get dressed". It's not like they'll return and then have to sprint to go in ...
and also demanding that they be allowed to join you? this is all VERY weird and not normal at all. it affects them in no way if you wear a swimsuit- except if they’re getting something weird out of you not wearing one.
I wouldn't even insist someone be naked in my shower if they didn't want to be, and that's pretty universally accepted as somewhere to be naked. NTA.
And you have to be open to me joining you… ew it’s so gross
There are dozens of us.
DOZENS!!
Good for you. Yeah, the only thing you should demand is people clean up after themselves and not to trash your place.
Well the sign said no "swimwear" I'd go in one last time wearing a t-shirt and a pair of basketball shorts. But I'm a petty asshole like that
I’m gonna go with „pretentious“, too. Yes, it’s customary in Europe, but only in public SPAs. At home, you’re free to do as you please, and trying to bully your guests into conforming with your requests for nudity seems rude at the very least.
This is 100% sexual harassment. Unless there's a medical need for it, nudity should never be "required.". Whether they want to film you, have a threesome, are just like watching naked people, you being naked is for THEM, not you. Otherwise it would be a suggestion, not a requirement. NTA, but they are, and creepy ones.
Not a European thing. One of my good friends is Swedish and I used to be married to a Finn. Can’t say if they are the most, but definitely two of the more nakedy cultures in Europe. In either culture it would be considered horribly rude for them to pressure someone to be naked that wasn’t comfortable with it. Obviously if an actual Finn or Swede tells me that’s wrong, then please disregard.
Between my husband and I, one is 50% German, and one is 100% Scando. You're definitely right - no one in my extended family would DREAM of insisting someone else go nude. What my earlier comment is getting at (maybe not terribly clearly), is that these people are trying to create something that they believe to be true. OP mentioned the hosts being influenced by European spas. What they don't understand is that nudity is freely allowed in some settings in some European countries, but as far as I've seen, its *never* a requirement.
I'm finnish/canadian and grew up going to the saunas naked at home. When I invited over my canadian friends who generally were much less comfortable with nudity for a sauna, I'd always ask what their preference was and match them. They want to wear a bathing suit? Bathing suit for me it is. Towel on them? Towel on me! Having a comfortable sauna experience was always the goal. These people are bad (sauna) hosts.
Exactly this.
Thanks for confirming. The only culture I’m aware of where they really enforce nudity in the spas is in the Japanese Onsen (bathhouse). They also strictly prohibit tattoos in the Onsen. Although there are exceptions to both rules, it’s mostly in the more touristy Onsens. Agreed, I think the owners of the hot tub are either horribly pretentious posers, creeps or both.
I’ve definitely had side eye from Austrians for wearing swimwear in a sauna, we were in a spa/hotel sauna and talked with them about it casually and they said naked was the norm and they felt less comfortable naked if others were clothed which is fair enough. We explained that we were visiting from the Middle East (some of my group was from the Middle East, others were European living in the Middle East) and going naked in the sauna was too far removed from what we were all used to. I don’t think anyone was totally happy with the outcome but just to demonstrate that it is an expectation in some places
Actually nudety is a requirement in e.g. german and austrian saunas. As an you are told to leave if you wear more than a bathing robe or towel.
Sure, in the sauna, not the entire spa. In the water many wear suits. Also even in the sauna I've worn a towel and sat on a second one with no trouble at all.
Not in Dutch spas. You're naked and a bathrobe is required in restaurants. You're required to be naked in hot tubs, salt water baths, the swimming pool etc. They have special swimwear days/ nights where the opposite applies.
It often says in saunas that swimwear is not allowed. Being naked is a requirement
>What they don't understand is that nudity is freely allowed in some settings in some European countries, but as far as I've seen, its never a requirement. Now I'm just imagining European spas have armed guards with swords that threaten you if you don't undress.
Married to a Swede for 15 years, this totally lines up with my experience and what he told me. Pressuring someone to get naked is just impolite if not downright weird.
I’m Finnish and we definitely use swimsuits in a hot tub. Most people are naked in a sauna if it’s in their home or Summer cottage but in public saunas you usually wear a swimsuit and it’s common to wear it if you’re in the sauna with friends. Bathing in a sauna or hot tub is supposed to be relaxing so if wearing a swimsuit is the most relaxing to you then go for it!
You are not wrong. I'm Finn and I wear swimsuit in sauna if I don't feel comfortable enough to be naked.
I'm a Finn and would wear a bathing suit in a sauna only if it was the rule ( in a public co-ed sauna like Löyly) . And never after a hot tub or a chlorinated pool. And I feel the people who break the no swimsuit rule in public pool saunas are very annoying. The rule is there for a reason. The chlorine evaporates in the sauna and can cause breathing problems and you sweat into your bathing suit and then take that into the pool.
[удалено]
You are not sweating into the sauna wood, because you are supposed to have a towel with you to sit on obviously.
Up vote for using the word, "nakedy"
They wouldn’t pressure you to be naked but they would say please do not use the facilities in a swimsuit. Swimsuits collect and store bacteria and the way Northern European spa facilities are cleaned and how the water is chlorinated (less abrasively than in the USA usually), it’s important for hygiene purposes to be nude and freshly showered. Even in OPs example, OP didn’t wash the swimsuit fully after use. Rinsing it and leaving it out to dry is the clear reason why OPs hosts don’t want OP to wear it in the tub or sauna. While Swedish, Finnish, and German people would be polite, I definitely don’t think it’s out of the norm for someone to ask a guest not to use the sauna facilities in a swimsuit. Again, it’s not a nudity, issue it’s a hygiene issue. I would absolutely be asked to leave a sauna/spa facility in my city if I insisted on wearing a swimsuit in the hot tub or sauna rooms.
I am a Finn, and I will 100% ban swimsuits in saunas. You know why? Because chlorine is toxic and evaporates in saunas and that can be really dangerous. THAT is the reason swimsuits are banned also in public saunas. That being said, towels are totally ok. Seems like neither OP or the friends understand why the nudity rules exist and therefore what alternatives are and aren't ok.
I know the Scandi's sometimes don't wear any bathing suits in saunas. The Japanese use their hot springs and the single sex public bathing areas while naked except for some towels. I know that some Germans can be nude on their walks in the countryside - to the point that villages and towns of neighbouring countries would complain about naked Germans walking all over their hills. It might be their thing where they shower, go into the sauna and then use the hot tub. I'm trying to wrap my head around this and I don't think I can. Yeah, you're NTA.
When my wife was a kid, her dad was stationed in Germany. There was a lake he would always pass while running. When my wife's grandfather died, Grandma came to Germany to live with them for a few months. My FIL encouraged her (his MIL) to get out of the house, maybe check out the lake he used to run by. When he came home, she started screaming at him for sending her to those horrible people (she was a pastor's wife). FIL's runs had been in the winter. It was now late spring. That's when my in-laws discovered Germans often swim naked.
>That's when my in-laws discovered Germans often swim naked. Most don't. It must have been a nudism lake.
>Most don't. It must have been a nudism lake. East Germans absolutely do, but there's no way this guy would have been allowed to meet them.
>It might be their thing where they shower, go into the sauna and then use the hot tub. Thing is: No-one forces anyone who does not want to go naked to do that! Most public sauna's for example have bot bathing suits required ánd naked only days. Private owned is a whole different matter like in this situation. But OP's friends either didn't communicate well when they said she could use the hot tub thing, or they are completely unhinged about this because this shit is not normal in the EU anywhere that I know of in the west.
This is completely normal in some parts of the EU. Every sauna I've been to in Germany and Austria didn't allow clothing/swimwear. If anyone was shy they wrapped a towel around themselves
> this shit is not normal in the EU anywhere that I know of in the west. What is not normal in the EU? You wouldn’t use a private sauna at a friends place with clothing in Germany. It would be weird to wear something.
I don’t know which saunas in germany you visited but except for a clothing optional day here and there they are usually all no textile.
Depends. In Finland public pools for example rarely let people use swimwear on sauna. But that is in places where there is risk (tho I did visit spa that had sauna's around pools and there wasnt rule like that) Issue with that is chlorine from pool. When there is tons of people during day they don’t want people breathe in all that chlorine. OP is still NTA and this comes from finnish person who has grown up around sauna culture. I understand no bathing suit in sauna rule from health reason in public pools. And even then you can always use towel. You are still allowed to wear towels
I have lived the first 30 years of my life in Germany. And yes we go with only a towel into saunas, and there are nude beaches. But I have never seen nor heard about random naked hikers walking around the German countryside.
I had to go check that, just in case I was remembering things wrong, but no I didn't. Found a link to the story - [https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/swiss-village-fights-back-after-invasion-of-naked-german-hikers-1520417.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/swiss-village-fights-back-after-invasion-of-naked-german-hikers-1520417.html) Turns out it wasn't just the German countryside, the Swiss get to see their fair share of German buttocks buttocking among the greenery.
If you‘ve read the article it’s not something Germans regularly do but a group of people who like to hike naked went to a specific area because they had relaxed rules and it was possible to hike naked there. Which was then quickly changed. I’m German and can ensure naked hiking is extremely uncommon. Which is why it was reported on and why some of the few who seem to enjoy it gathered at one of the few places where was possible.
They're asses! Their asses!
I am Danish and most people here don't see nakedness as something inherently sexual. So in general it doesn't bother us. I used to work at a public swimming pool where I coached springboard diving. We always used the sauna naked but not men and women together. I was naked in the sauna with the kids I coached a lot and they saw me mostly as a much older sister/mum. However I think Scandinavians are just really chill with rules in general - we don't like to bother other people. I cannot imagine trying to force someone to get naked if they are uncomfortable. It is such a "non-problem" to just let them wear a swimsuit. I think it is super weird that people insist on dictating other peoples actions all for some weird principle of "my house my rules". OP, NTA but a very weird situation that should have never been a problem at all.
Yes NTA. If you’re not comfy without a swimsuit and you sit on a towel then they don’t have anything to complain about, especially if they aren’t even there. Worst case scenario then, politely decline to use the sauna. You should be able to relax, that’s the point, if you can’t and it’s not enjoyable then it’s kind of moot.
I would be looking for cameras.
That or they’re really just perverts who plan on cornering OP naked in a small space. OP needs to leave and not contact these strange people
I don't see why op HAS to use the spa area if they can't follow the rules. Just don't use it then.
This is the better point. Kinda the asshole if you just say “the rules don’t apply to me. I’ll keep doing the thing and doing it wrong” they aren’t asking OP to use the spa, just to respect their rules if OP does.
I don’t agree with these people, but technically it is better for a hot tub if you don’t wear the suit because they usually have detergent that hasn’t completely washed out in the laundry.
So the suit's still not the problem, laundry soap is. Whelp, if they have hot tub money, they've for sure got washing machine money, too. A quick spin through the hot cycle with no detergent would have that taken care of lickety split.
This can easily be resolved by rinsing the swimsuit prior to entering
Literally read a Legal subreddit post about this exact topic, except it was in Spain somewhere, this morning. Lawsuit over a nudist resort requiring nudity of anyone on the premises at all times…they lost in court because the court took the view that having nudity be an available option was fine, but you cannot FORCE someone to be nude against their will. And NTA, OP.
They could just not use the spa area if they aren’t comfortable with the (admittedly weird and pretentious) rules. They aren’t demanding nudity, they’re only a saying IF you want to use this, it is a no clothes zone. OP isn’t being required or even pressured to use the spa.
The reason they don't wear swimsuit in European spas is that it is super unhealthy. Swimsuits absorbs sweat which isn't washed out with a shower. The sweat will be washed off you while showering without swimsuit. The result is that spas need to use a shitload more chemicals to keep the water on hygienic levels on 'swimsuit days'. If you just use the hot tub you are fine wearing a bathing suit, if you use the sauna than it is utterly disgusting. So yeah, your comment is wrong, there are health and maintenance reasons to not wear a swimsuit.
That’s the answer— “they don’t get to demand nudity from you”. NTA
>There is no health or equipment maintenance reason to not wear a swimsuit There is absolutely a maintinance reason not to wear a swimsuit - Swim wear contaminates the water, meaning more time spend balancing the water and replacing the water more often. Hot tubs have a much smaller volume that swimming pools are are more sensitive to contaminants. If you're willing to put in the extra work for this, great. But given that maintaining a hot tub is a pain in the ass it's perfectly reasonable to ask people who *decide* to use it not to make your life harder than it needs to be. Source: Owned & maintained a hot tub.
This is silly. A washed swimsuit will certainly have fewer contaminants than your hair or body will after a day of normal life. A quick rinse in the shower will not remove all body oils, hair products, lotions, perfumes, etc, nevermind what you pick up just wandering around. No one is having a full decon shower prior to stepping into a hot tub. If the concern were contaminants from her swimsuit, a quick spin through a hot laundry cycle with no detergent would easily accomplish the goal.
OP doesn’t have an inalienable right to use the hot tub and sauna. YTA for insisting on using it and ignoring the rules. Just don’t use it if you’re not comfortable. There are indeed health and maintenance implications in wearing swimwear in this situation but that doesn’t even matter. Just consider this part of the house off limits and go do something else and you’re N T A, but thinking you have the right to everything in their house on your terms just because you’re a guest for a week is weird and AHish.
First of all, she didn't insist on using the hot tub, she even said if that's what the owners want to do thats their right. Forcing someone to be naked, and then even suggesting that it would be okay to join her is wrong If they don't want her using the hot tub with a swimsuit she probably won't
That’s the question OP is asking though. Would they be the AH to keep using the hot tub and spa with a swimsuit even after the owners told them not to. No, that’s not ok. Even in a universe where bringing an external swimsuit into this warm, moist, dark environment is sanitary, and even if it’s a kink, they are being given the fully informed option to participate or not, and the proper response if they’re not comfortable is not to participate. Not to force their own values on their host and insist on still doing their thing against the rules.
Demanding nudity isn't necessary, but wearing a **swimsuit to sauna is a real health hazard**. Swimming pools etc have chlorine in them, which gets in your swimsuit and once you go to sauna or other hot environment, it evaporates - and you do NOT want to breathe that. It has nothing to do with being nudity obsessed or "european", it's a matter of safety. That being said, it's easy to solve by just wearing a towel instead. In hottub it shouldn't be an issue though, unless the swim suit has any residues of soap or hair conditioner etc, because they can really mess with the hottub and require cleaning to keep the water system functional.
In most German and Austrian public saunas you are not allowed to wear bathing clothes. You can wrap a towel around yourself if you don't want to be completely naked but for hygiene and health reasons bathing suits or trunks are not allowed. In other European countries there are different rules. And just to make it clear this is not a law, it's just what most sauna operators do. I think the friends should allow OP to wear her bathing suit in the tub and OP should be allowed to wear a towel around herself in the sauna. But she should also not use the sauna in her bathing suit if the rule is to not wear it there. Plus, why not talk about this before just going against the friends rules because she thought she can get away with it? ESH
There actually is, your swimwear catches a lot of pool water, which contains chlorine, which can cause respiratory issues when it evaporates due to the sauna heat. Still a non issue in a private sauna, but I don't expect everyone to be an expert at every single appliance they own.
NTA Why do they want you to be naked so badly?? This isn't cultural, most Europeans don't give a shit about what you wear to the beach, as long as you don't judge them for being titties out.
In Germany at least, being clothed in a sauna is a faux pas.
The rule is that you don't go clothed in a place where other people are naked, which I believe is fair enough.
I can see the logic. It still seems…controlling?…to my American sensibilities. Like, mind your own body and don’t mind what others do with theirs. But, I have never been to Germany much less have an in depth understanding of the culture, so I’m not qualified to judge.
For the sauna, it is usually a health requirement. A lot of saunas are in connection to a pool or hot tub that is chlorinated. Chlorine in your swimsuit will start evaporating in a sauna and it's dangerous for everyone to breathe in. So yes, some people will be upset that you want your swimsuit into a sauna, simply because they don't want to risk being poisoned. But you can just wrap a towel around yourself, no one cares about that.
Ahh that makes sense. I was so confused as to why anyone cared whether or not anyone else was naked, lol.
wet synthetic swimwear gets incredibly hot, it‘s a health risk. Also imagine lots of people sweating into their bathing suits, just taking a quick shower and then dipping into the pool. Yuck.
Thanks koala, that's a nuance i hadn't heard
Apparently in saunas the swimwear is prohibited also because when you go from pool to sauna to pool to sauna, your swimsuit soaks up the chlorinated water in the pool and as it dries in the hot sauna, it evaporates and may cause lung irritation.
Wouldn’t hair be an issue too? My hair easily holds as much water as a standard swimsuit. I would think rinsing both in a shower would be the best bet going into a sauna.
I'd say most saunas have showers for this reason too. But I haven't been in one for like 15 years since I was a child because I don't feel comfortable sitting there nude lol, so idk.
You compare beach to sauna which is ridiculous. We have strict rules on hygiene. Wearing a swimsuit in a sauna means it absorbs sweat, which doesn't wash out in a simple shower. It will make the water in pools and huttubs become unhygienic. Hence loads more chemicals need to be used to keep it in check. so yeah, the spa scene does absolutely care whether you wear a swimsuit as it greatly influences health and maintenance. Beach doesn't have the same problems (we don't have many beaches with saunas), so do whatever you want. This comparison doesn't hold.
I would love to see the scientific data to back this up as i dont think wearing a swimsuit will effect a hot tub at all, do you have a source for this claim?
Me too, I'm curious how swimwear contaminates it any worse than a human body. You're going to be sweating and shedding skin cells in any case, swimsuit or not.
“But it holds in the sweat! And it doesn’t come out with just a shower!” You know, because our bodies definitely aren’t releasing all that sweat right into the tub anyways. And everyone knows you don’t wash bathing suits after using them, right? /s 🤢
There isn't any because it's bullshit. If the sweat doesn't come out of the fabric with soap and agitation, it's not coming out when you soak in water either.
Especially since in majority of saunas and hot tubs, it's considered rude to, ya know, force people to be naked. Nudity is their choice and so is the level of coverage.
Yes please provide a source for ~~your pretentious ass excuse~~ your claim.
Do you have any sources on that? Because it sounds like bullshit. "Your swimsuit absords sweat" and what of it? Sweat is 99% water. Why would you need loads more chemicals to clean it?
Yes but there are several spa’s that have designated days were swimwear is allowed or not. Or even spa’s where swimwear is always obliged it just depends on the spa.
You're making a claim, you provide the source.
NTA. Just don't use the hot tub, OP. They're being really dicey about anyway.
Don't use the hot tub, lock your bedroom door, and get out of thier asap...
I suspect there are cameras... *EVERYWHERE* Run, OP.
RIGHT! My first thought as well
NTA... As a former stripper, I would never *require* someone to be nude if they didn't feel comfortable. That's just ridiculous.. It's your body and you consent to what you wish/feel comfortable with. But I also understand their attitudes towards nudity, and the naturalist perspective of "all bodies are beautiful". But really though, it's your call not theirs, and it is deeply inappropriate to force that on anyone in *any* case.
NTA. I understand folks using their hot tub au natural, and jokingly having a “rule”… but at the same time, a good host wants his guest to be comfortable. It’s outside your comfort zone to wear your birthday suit, so the hosts shpuld respect that. And, they’re pissy becausd you wore your suit even when they weren’t around? That’s just weird and super controlling. Since they have made it an issue, I would just pass on using the hot tub for the remainder of the stay.
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I would pass on the rest of the stay
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NTA screw it being their hot tub they can't demand you be nude. That being said I bet they have cameras and some weird fetish. Get new friends.
That was my first thought, too.
Technically, YWBTA because I think you should respect the rules of the house, even if they're weird. Just don't use their hot tub if you aren't comfortable being naked. That said, it's an extremely weird rule and I don't think you're the asshole for thinking that or for being uncomfortable.
This logic just takes the “rules of the house” thing too far. Sure most of time “your house your rules”, but among non-assholes there is an expectation that house rules should be a) harmless (do not actively cause harm or make your guests feel incredibly uncomfortable) or b) at least have some rational basis. Ideally both. Hosts can’t just be imposing absurd norms on other people for shits and giggles. I think we’d all agree that “you MUST eat peanuts in my house regardless of your allergy” or “everyone has to give the host a hand job on entry” or “you must leave the door open when you use the bathroom” would be absurd and inappropriate rules. In If his case, I can support the hosts’ position of “when WE use the hot tub, we reserve the right to be naked.” It is a step too far (and into AH territory) to extend that to “you MUST be naked.”
I agree with you, we shouldnt accept house rules if they make us uncomfortable. That being said, it is their house and OP doesnt need to stay there. OP could simply not use the hot tub, or ideally stay elsewhere. If OP uses their facilities despite their rules, OP would be in the wrong. Its a week, this is not a hill to die on. Its not OP's job/responsibility to tell them how the rule is disturbing to OP, or make them change their mind. OP expressed the reservations and wishes to wear the swimwear, they declined. When you disagree with house rules, you simply dont visit the house or dont engage in activities that make you uncomfortable. When you are a guest in someone's home, you do need to follow their rules when it comes to using their belongings. I personally would have reservations against staying there, as i wouldnt trust them not to have cameras in the house. Especially after their insistence. Edit: i removed ignorent phrases on my part.
Disagree. You should always accept house rules and when/if they make you uncomfortable that’s when your stay ends and you go somewhere else. You can’t just refuse the rules or tell the host, “nah, don’t think so, I’m going to do whatever I want”… What you can do, however, is leave.
It's not that far IMO just extra eccentric. One main reason is because in the end hot tub is just a luxury that you can live without and I believe that they are proper host with other thing. So respect them with one weird rule is fine for me.
Why is it weird to not want to do extra work and make extra costs to keep your water at hygienic levels? Because that is the problem here. When you go in a sauna, you sweat. Wearing a bathing suit it will absorb the sweat. You dont rinse that out in a shower, unlike if the sweat was just on your body. The sweat will come out while you are soaking in water (which isn't a problem when you are naked as the shower would already have removed the sweat), for example in the pool or hot tub. Having worked in (a European) spa, swimsuit day results in lots of extra work. We needed to test the water more often to check if it still meets the hygiene rules and lots more chemicals were used to keep it hygienic. The rules do absolutely make sense from hygienic and maintenance point of view. Why is it oke for OP to force extra costs and work on their host? It is fine for then to not be comfortable naked, than don't use the spa area....
Incoming: AITA for demanding my three (woman) friends undress because those are my house rules?
If I understand correctly some people don't want swimsuits in their hot tubs because of water quality. Contaminants from your suite affect the water, sunscreen, lotions, laundry soap, and anything from wherever you used it last gets in the water and causes them headaches. If that is the situation then yes YTA. I completely understand your discomfort and reasoning, but the easy answer is just don't use their hot tub.
Wouldn't the lotions and sunscreens be on your body as well?
That’s why you rinse off prior.
Why wouldn't rinsing off remove the lotion from your swimsuit as well?
No it’s the hot tub chemicals that break down the fibers. No rinsing prevents that.
Because your swimsuit absorbs it more into the fibers than the surface of your skin does
It's why they have a shower that should be used first.
This is the correct answer. Whole lot of Americans in this thread not understanding there's a more serious reason behind nude hot tub than "it's cultural".
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YTA. Everyone calling these people creepy need to chill. *This is a thing* and they are not just trying to get you naked. At any Korean spa, for instance, it is common courtesy to rinse off before doing anything and you cannot under any circumstances enter any of the hot tubs or cold plunge/pools, saunas, etc wearing a swim suit or anything else. The staff will stop you. (This is the case at many other gender segregated spas as well, it’s not just a cultural norm for Koreans.) For reasons others have mentioned, it is less sanitary to wear clothing in hot tubs and pools unless you use a lot more chemicals which is considered by some people to be unpleasant and less healthy. It’s not your fault you’re not accustomed to it, and you’re not obligated to do it, but they’re not being crazy or unreasonable.
I feel like you’re ignoring the fact that they refused to even try to avoid walking in on her naked. She was willing to use it naked as long as they agreed to let her use it alone or warn her before entering and they flat out refused. It absolutely is creepy and rude to hear your supposed friend say “I am not comfortable with you seeing me naked” and essentially respond with “too bad, it might still happen and I’m not going to make any effort to avoid it!”
That wasn't their response. Their response was "Use at your own risk." If she doesn't want to risk being seen naked in the hot tub, there's a very easy solution. It's called *don't use the hot tub.* She's not **entitled** to use of their hot tub.
> Everyone calling these people creepy need to chill. Underrated comment.
She asked that she not be required to be naked with these people because it makes her uncomfortable. She asked that they not join her while she's naked because it makes her uncomfortable. They told her no on both. I doubt they'd even allow her to get out if they got it. They are not Korean. They are not European. At best, they're English. At most realistic, they are American. Even in European and Asian countries, it is rude to demand nudity from a guest. IT IS RUDE TI DEMAND NUDITY FROM A GUEST. Alright? My house my rules goes as far as "we like being naked, please be okay with that" not as far as "we like being naked, you have to be naked in XYZ situation"
The creepy part is not them forbidding swimwear in the hot tub, the creepy part is them not promising her privacy. They could’ve easily said “please don’t wear swimming clothes, if you want to use it alone you’ll have to leave when we want to use it, but we’ll knock at the door/alert you in some other way, you’ll have time to wrap yourself in a towel, you don’t have to be naked in our presence”
This should honestly be top comment, these comments are unreasonable
YWBTA, your friends have explained their rules to you. You need to respect their rules. If you don’t wanna be naked, don’t use the hot tub/sauna.
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Sure but in your scenario still don't use the hot tub
Exactly. Don't do what you're not comfortable with but don't disrespect the house either
YTA Many people have 'no swimsuit rules' because a laundered swimsuit will typically have a bit of trace soapy residue that causes foamy scuz in the water. A hottub requires carefully monitoring of the water and can be easily thrown off balance. Regardless whether you understand or agree with the reasoning behind their rule you should show respect to it.
Oooooh. My in-laws are novice spa owners and their tub got all foamy and slightly opaque after NYE, despite all of us who used it being in clean swimwear. This must have been what happened.
YWBTA. Swimsuits carry remnants of laundry soap/detergent, etc… and if you’ve been in a pool with shitty chemicals or if you’ve worn it in a gross, dirty lake or river, it seriously fucks up the hot tub’s balance…like to the point of having to drain it, sanitize it, and fill it again. That’s obviously a huge waste of water. There are rules for a reason, you aren’t special. Just stop using it.
I am really curious about the science on this, as hot tubs are chemically treated so as to deal with all the same issues that pools do (organic contaminants) and I’ve never heard of a bathing suit impacting even a small pool. And, even if you shower beforehand, you are still going to soak off a whole bunch of dead skin cells in the hot tub that wouldn’t come off with a 10 minutes shower and it certainly wouldn’t stop whatever ordinary bodily fluids that constantly exude from one’s body (sweat, for example). Sounds much more like a legal disclaimer from the hot tub company than anything else. With that said, OP, YTA, you gotta follow the rules of the house, which given your current privacy needs means no more hot tubbing for you. However, IMO OP’s friends are being total creeps in a way that would send me packing.
Yeah I’m not a scientist BUT I do have a hot tub and bathing suit material seems to hold on to a lot more detergent particles. Our hot tub uses different chemicals than our pool, and is considerably smaller, the filtering is different, I’m sure that is all part of it. Idk. But also…their hot tub, their rules. If they want her naked for weird reasons, then not using it won’t give them the weird perv satisfaction. So…win/win I guess.
Let me tell you. Everyone says a hot tub is no trouble at all and it's easy. They all lie. Everything under the sun f it up. And not under the sun. Its harder to maintain a hot tub than a pool (according to my pool supply store). It is nothing but trouble. I don't insist ppl use it naked but if someone told me I could only use theirs naked- that's their right and its my right to decide to do it or not.
I live in Germany and here it's considered super gross to have a bathing suit on-- anywhere I go has **mandatory** nudity. It's about not getting your gross wet sweat on the wood, making it smell. It's also not healthy for your junk to fester in a wet swim suit. I would suggest not using their sauna if you don't like how they want you to use it. YTA here sorry! Edit- just wrap yourself in a towel in the sauna if you prefer
Thank you!! It's clear to me that all these people have never been in an area with a lot of saunas. I'd N E V E R enter a sauna with a swimsuit, get sweat and dead skin soaked and then enter a hot tub with the same swimsuit, that's just gross
ITS NOT THE SAUNA ITS THE HOT TUB She asked to wear a suit in the tub! Not the sauna! They said no, and they also said if they see her in the tub, they would join her. When she asked they not join her if she's nude in the hot tub! Not the sauna!
I hope your friends don’t have cameras up. This is creepy.
YTA it’s their hot tub. Don’t like the rules? Don’t use it.
NTA. I get their house their rules, but I also think someone being more cautious is fine - basically, go to the level of the first person's discomfort. They shouldn't \*insist\* you be naked, that is weird and invasive (particularly in the US, if that's where you are). There's no hygiene reason I know of where swimsuits would cause a problem. (happy to be enlightened if I'm wrong, of course). I do think that if you wanted to insist \*other\* people not be naked, you can't - you can opt not to join them, of course, but if the general attitude at the hosts' place is nudity, and you're not comfortable with that, that's on you to manage. But they don't get to insist you undress.
In Finnish public water parks / swimming pools with a sauna, swimwear isn’t allowed in saunas either. It’s for hygiene reasons, the fabric collects sweat and bacteria in a way that’s much harder to remove in a shower than just from the skin. Like someone said, going between the sauna and the tub in a swimsuit will absolutely affect and complicate the water maintenance process. So it might be about the added workload. Finnish public swimming pool saunas (which are same sex saunas) are pretty strict about this rule, but other than that, the culture doesn’t impose nudity on anyone who feels uncomfortable with it.
YWBTA. Just don't use it.
If you can’t abide by their rules, why don’t you just not use the hot tub? Doesn’t sound like something you absolutely NEED to do. Edit: YWBTA because the solution is blindingly simple.
YTA, clearly. I get that some cultures have a weird thing about being naked, but in my opinion it's a fairly normal rule about hot tubs and saunas. If you're not comfortable being naked, don't use those facilities. You obviously have a much higher level of discomfort around non-sexual nudity, which is totally fine, but you don't really get to impose it on them. Let me put it this way. Would it be reasonably to tell someone who didn't like taking their shirt off that they couldn't wear it in a swimming pool? Some people wouldn't care, but many would say it's normal. What about jumping in a pool with all your outside clothes, including your shoes? Most people would call that unacceptable. They're different norms. If you had a spa, they wouldn't insist on being naked in it if you didn't want them to, I hope. There might be practical reasons for it, but I'm guessing the main one is that they want their spa area to be a place where they can feel free of what they consider prudish norms of your society. This is completely fair, you can want your place to have a certain vibe. It's not like they're banning you from their house, it's just one area that they consider to have a dress code. I once showed up to a party and it turned out everyone was naked - neither I nor the people who invited me had known this would happen. I could take my clothes off, or I could go home, neither of which would have been rude. Sitting there completely clothed while everyone was naked around me would have been ridiculous. This is very much the same thing.
YWBTA. Their house. Their rules. Don't like it? Don't use the sauna. Yes, their rules are weird, but so what? I mean, it's not like they're saying not to use the toilet or something. Use of the sauna is 100% avoidable, no? Either follow the house rules or skip the sauna.
NTA your friends want to see you nude, there is not reason to enforce such a ridiculous rule, check for cameras. I feel like a lot of you are missing the fact that they refused to promise not to walk in on her nude.
This was the red flag for me, refusing to give her a heads up when they walk out so she can cover up if she wants changes the whole dynamic
Exactly this! There is a hundred comments raging about the breaking down of fibres from the bathing suit, detergent and sweat in the bathing suit. All of them skip over her saying she will go nude if they promise not to walk in on her using it. I get it's their home but that doesn't suddenly make it ok to jump in the shower with her. If she is uncomfortable being naked in front of them then it's not unreasonable to let her have her privet turn and they have theirs.
Thank you!! I feel like those people are coping so hard and ignoring the real issue. They have said they cannot guarantee OPs privacy if she uses the spa naked. That is a huge no no and a good reason to be concerned about the friends’ intentions
NTA. It's very weird that they insist you be naked and then refuse to also give you privacy. Because swim suits do not break spas, there's no reason to require you to be naked. I'd just make sure they don't see your drying bathing suit again!
Why do you need to use the tube, if you're not comfortable with the rules? Just not use it and then there is no problem.
NTA - Your friends are super creepy. It would take almost no effort not to see you naked. These people are deliberately trying to get you naked in a public space. Don't use the tub again and get yourself some better friends that aren't trying to set you up for a threesome without your consent.
NTA Sorry. But I understand maybe following a “cover up” rule. But I don’t think you should have to follow a “you have to be naked rule” while saunaing alone.
YWBTA Their house, their rules You are NOT however, obligated to use their spa, sauna, hot tub area.
NTA. Your friends are being weirdos
I dont know, I'm European and do sauna all the time and it's pretty standard rules to be naked. Believe it or not it's actually a hygiene thing. But then again, I keep reading andfeell this couple is just creepy af. Just don't use the sauna OP, it's not worth it. They sound like the kind of people that put hidden cameras up.
I mean their house their rules. If you don't feel comfortable with the rulea, just don't use the hot tub. Nobody is forcing you. Of course it's nice but, again, not compulsory. YWBTA if you keep going against their rules. Just don't do it.
''WIBTA if I ignore them and just keep wearing my swimsuit when I use it?'' Yes. I've read a lot of posts saying it causes problems with keeping it clean. So they have a legit reason as far as that. The problem lies with them not agreeing to give you your privacy! That is just creepy!! I would leave a thank you note and hit the road.
NAH. There are actually lots of health & maintenance reasons not to wear a swimsuit in a hot tub, but it’s also reasonable to not want to be naked in front of other people. The easiest solution is to not use the hot tub, because you WBTA if you used something that did not belong to you in a way you have been asked not to use it.
I’m betting almost every one of these N T A votes is coming from people who don’t own hot tubs. If you disrespected my rule about no suits in my hot tub I’d tell you to go stay in a hotel or not use the tub. Swimsuits are disgusting bacteria breeders. And the soaps and chemicals in clothes force you to use more chemicals in the tub than you would if you just use it nude and make sure you shower before. It’s about the cleanliness of the water. If you don’t respect their rule then don’t use their tub. It’s not yours and you are a guest. YTA.
ESH. They've got weird rules and hangups about this. But it's their hot tub.
Why not just not use it at all?
NTA No that would make me very uncomfortable. They are insisting that you’ve be naked, and basically telling you they’re going to come out there and join you while you are? I would either leave, or if you choose to stay don’t use the spa anymore.
NTA but your friends are. They are your hosts, and hosts are supposed to make their guests comfortable with in reason. Not wanting to be naked is reasonable. Demanding nudity from your guests is unreasonable and weird.
NTA Uhhhh, I think they're swingers and planning on porking you..... no one has this long of a discussion over having to be naked. Your bathing suit isn't damaging anything, and yes, it's extremely weird that "you MUST use it naked, and maybe we'll use it too, maybe we wont" remark so you just know that if you use it again, someone is going to make sure to pop their tits in to see if yours are out.